Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 15 Jun 2022
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Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022
Watch: Plenary
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
____
The House met at 10:00
The House Chairperson, Mr M L D Ntombela took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS
The House Chairperson (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members, in the interest of safety for all present in the Chamber, please keep your masks on and sit in your designated area.
DEBATE ON YOUTH DAY PROMOTING SUSTAINABLE LIVELIHOODS AND RESILIENCE OF YOUNG PEOPLE IN SOUTH AFRICA FOR A BETTER TOMORROW
Mr S M KULA: Hon House Chairperson, the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon Members of Parliament, ladies and gentlemen, I greet you all. Youth as a structure in transit has always been a critical body of opinion. They have shared many revolutions in Africa and in parts of the world. Our country in South Africa is not different. Every time I speak on the question of youth I am reminded of the words of the former President of the ANC, Oliver Reginald Tambo. They always echo in my mind and heart that:
A country, a movement, a person that does not value its youth and children, does not value its future. Hence we have always maintained and took cognisance of the fact that we as young people are the future and no one can stop us. In his foreword on the National Youth Development Agency Policy Framework, former Minister in the Presidency Dr Essop Goolam Pahad, correctly captures the spirit of what drove young people on that fateful morning of June 16 1976.
He
writes that:
The claim of youth to a bright future is unquestionable. Our youth have, in our history of blood and effort, borne much of the brunt of struggle. For many years under apartheid they were, quite literally and deliberately, deprived of a future by a system, which kept all blacks in bondage in the country of their birth. For young people, it meant enormous deprivation just at the very time when people should expect to look forward to a full
life. The educational system was specifically designed to keep blacks as hewers of wood and drawers of water. The ghettoes of apartheid, in towns and cities but also in alienated, bogus state lets called Bantustans, kept blacks in conditions, which were depressing and hopeless. Blacks' medical needs were neglected by the state, which meant many youths grew up vastly disadvantaged. As youths emerged from the meagre training and education that was
available, they were prohibited from pursuing many avenues of employment reserved for whites. They grew into a society, which was in the iron grip of repression. They knew arrest, torture, death itself. This is what broke the camel’s back and made young people to stand up and said enough is enough. Speaker, let me take this
opportunity to pay homage to the 1976 generation.
IsiXhosa:
Abahlahli bendlela.
English:
As the current generation of youth, we owe you our loyalty for your colossal efforts to dismantle a brutal apartheid system.
South Africa is a better place than it was in 1976. Thanks to the contribution of our forebears and the ANC-led government.
Under apartheid government young people lived in a society where they experienced arrest, torture and even death itself.
Today, young people live in a democratic and prospering society.
I want to take this opportunity to report to the 1976 generation as well as preceding and succeeding generation of fruit that in our country today we have abolished Afrikaans as the medium of instruction in our schools. We have repealed the Bantu Education Act which prevented the young people from reaching their true potential. We are professionalising the early childhood development training that there is feeding scheme in both primary and secondary school. That young people have got access to the institutions of higher learning.
Our youth today has got jobs that in the past were preserved for white people. We have young people in mining, construction, ICT, agriculture and manufacturing. Young people are thriving in sports, arts, culture and entertainment. We understand fully well that more still needs to be done to tap into the untapped potential of many of our youth.
IsiXhosa:
Sazi kakuhle ukuba kuse kude engqinibeni kodwa inyaniso
emsulwa yeyokuba inkqubela ngumzamo yona.
English:
We, in the ANC understand that whilst progress has been made on many fronts to improve the quality of lives of young people and other groups, more still needs to be done to create a better life for all that was promised to our people in 1994.
Our Strategy and Tactic document correctly captures this when it assessed that:
The national democratic society constitutes the ideal state we aspire towards the ANC and the broad democratic movement. It should thus not be confused with the tactical positions that the liberation movement may adopt from time to time, taking into account the balance of forces within our country and
abroad. Circumstances in which we conduct social
transformation will change at all times and in the process of effecting such transformation there will be successes and setbacks.
As the movement we are sparing no strength nor courage to service the youth of this country. It is only those who make an attempt who at times experience failure unlike the many prophets of doom in this House who claim perfection out of inactivity. The only thing that they know is to criticise. The
erstwhile leadership of the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, under the capable leadership of my brother, friend and comrade Sifiso John Mtsweni was punching above its weight in terms of addressing the challenges of the youth development.
Many young people have been assisted to either start of grow their businesses. The NYDA has opened many regional offices across the country to make it easier for young people to access the agency. The new NYDA with the capable young women at the helm in the form of the executive chair and executive
deputy chair demonstrates our government’s confidence in the young women of our country. The National Youth Development Policy Framework, amongst others recognises that the challenge of the sustainable youth development and the sound wellbeing of the youth are the ability to meet the many basic needs of the present generation and to improve their quality of life. Many young African people with no secondary education constitutes the majority of the economically inactive
population. This is a breeding ground of gangsterism and
substance abuse in the form of matompo and nyaope, teenage
pregnancy, violent crimes and the harbour for absent fathers
or negligent mothers. This needs to be addressed through a
skills revolution. These young people need to be equipped with
relevant skills that are fit for the economy.
IsiXhosa:
Ukuhlala kwabo ezikoneni zezitalato nasecaleni kweevenkile zoo
...
English:
... My friend, is not going to help. Many of them need to be
assisted by being taken to the proper rehabilitation
facilities to curtail the problem of substance abuse. The ANC-
led government remains committed to improving the education
system of this country in light of the changing conditions. At
the recent 54th ANC National Conference we resolve that all
children of South Africa must get equal opportunities in terms
of infrastructure in all the schools if we want to maximise
the opportunities presented by the Fourth Industrial
Revolution.
Let us continue to appreciate the role played by the SA Youth
Council at National Economic Development and Labour Council,
Nedlac. During the recent local government elections, the ANC
demonstrated beyond all and sundry that it takes young people
seriously over any other party in this House. This they did
not do it by only setting a requirement of 30% youth
representation on their list but with the deployment of many
young mayors, speakers, chief whips and MECs, to add on the
list of the young people that are currently serving as
Ministers, Deputy Ministers, MPs and MPLs [Applause.]
IsiXhosa:
Yinyaniso emsulwa kaThixo ukuba ...
English:
... the ANC takes the youth very seriously. There is a
gradual introduction of youth in the administration and
business. It is hard to imagine that we would be where we are
as the nation without the activism of the youth. Their bravery
in the light of the monster before them to fight their rights.
How can we use this unflinching courage to inspire the youth
of today to confront the many social ills, including the
elephant in the room that is a ticking bomb? The issue of
unemployment, not forgetting the lack of adequate skills
amongst the youth that is keen in driving our economy.
House Chairperson, we must decry the tendency to use June 16
as the opportunity for the youth to binge. That day is not
designed that young people must drink because we are spitting
on the legacy of the 1976 generation. We must encourage
lectures, symposiums and dialogue among the youth, government,
business and civil society on how to resolve the challenges
confronting young people today. We must use June 16 to
highlight ...
IsiXhosa:
... amakhono ahlukileyo olutsha lwaseMzantsi Afrika ...
English:
... be it in sports, arts and entertainment. We must
encourage government, municipalities, churches and business
establishments to open public buildings and their premises for
free so that young people can showcase their talents on this
day. House Chairperson, let me define thus to this Parliament
the kind of South Africa young people want to live. We want to
live in a country where we are free of crime. We want to live
in a country where there are employment and economic
opportunities. We want to live in a country where young people
can realise their true potential without any hindrance.
Our government and society should be cognisant that young
people live according to how Amílcar Cabral characterised our
approach to the revolution that:
Always bear in mind that the people are not fighting for
ideas, for the things in anyone’s head. They are fighting
to win material benefits, to live better and in peace, to
see their lives go forward, to guarantee the future of
their children.
Hence we as the young people we fully identify with the lyrics
of the popular Amapiano song, Adiwele by Kabza De Small:
IsiXhosa:
Asihlaseleni solwel’impilo emnandi
Kunini sabawela kuyoze kufik’elakusasa
Angeke bayivale yonk’iminyango
Nam’ayangibuz’amathou
English:
To young people ...
IsiXhosa:
... bangeneni ngendlovu ngoko nangoko, i-ANC iwavulile
amasango.
Yingilosi la empilweni yam
Ayi malume kukhulu ok’zayo
Ngiba ngena ngenduku same time
Umsholozi uvulile amasango
Yingilosi la empilweni yam
Ayi malume kukhulu ok’zayo
English:
Happy Youth Day to all young people of our country.
[Applause.] In closing House Chairperson, we want to address
what happened last week. We have got a responsibility as
Members of Parliament to always carry ourselves in dignity.
People look to this Parliament for solutions that they are
faced with. Those who are coming ... [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: Your time has expired wena. Your time has
expired. You are done talking, go and sit down.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members, can I
draw your attention please? In front of me there is a clock in
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very big numbers. I cannot make any excuse that I am not
seeing it or I made a mistake. It is right in front of me. So,
hon Kula had all the time on his side. When the hecklings
started happening he was left with quite a number of seconds
and I would not do any favour or anyone a favour for that
matter. So please, just give me that chance. Give me a chance
to check my time. It is not like somebody is being done a
favour here. So, let us agree on that but at the same time I
would not object to anyone from you raising an objection about
that. Then I will explain what happens.
Mr L MPHITHI: Thank you hon House Chair. As we draw closer to
Youth Day, I would like to take this moment to honour an
incredible leader, who tragically lost his life on 12 June
2022 by the name of Lutho Jett Sokudela. This young man
represented all that was right in this country, a passion for
his community. A commitment to fight on behalf of the youth of
South Africa and a dedicated public servant who served the
residents of Nelson Mandela Bay Metropolitan Municipality and
Buffalo City Metropolitan Municipality with honour.
At the time of his untimely passing, he was to be sworn in as
a councillor in his hometown of Buffalo City. In an interview
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prior to what was going to be his swearing in, as a
councillor, he said the following:
As a public servant, you must learn to be humble, humble
to the people that you are serving, humble to the people
who were serving with and humbled to the officials and
administrators.
I thought this would be important to echo these words, so that
we all may draw from them and be inspired by the type of
leader Lutho was. To his family we thank them. for sharing
Lutho with us and we pray for all of you during this time. To
his friends and colleagues in the DA in the Eastern Cape and
across the country, we send our deepest condolences.
IsiXhosa:
Hamba ngoxolo ...
English:
... young leader of our generation.
IsiXhosa:
Hamba ngoxolo Zizi ...
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English:
... we will echo your words for many years to come. Hon Chair
today I am not going to lament about the failure of the ANC.
We all know that the ANC is destroying South Africa. We all
know that we are facing perhaps the most difficult times of
lives as young people ... [Inaudible] ... that each and every
year the lives of young people in this country get worse and
worse
IsiXhosa:
Kudala sisokola kweli lizwe phantsi kwe ANC.
English:
My question now is, for how long will we ... [Inaudible] ...
the government ... [Inaudible] ... unemployment amongst young
people rocketed to the highest levels it has ever been. A
government that has failed to eradicate ... [Inaudible.] A
government that has failed small businesses with bureaucratic
legislation. A government that has been unable to grow the
economy. A government that quite frankly is making young
people consider leaving the country to find a better life.
As the previous speaker said, the former National Youth
Development Agency, NYDA Chairperson was his friend and
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comrade, and he still does not see the problem with that
statement. He could not even mention one success in the past
10 years that the ANC government has made, in succeeding the
young people of this country. Instead, he reads as a song just
to show how politically vacant the ANC is. answer is. To what
end will we continue with the ANC?
Today I would rather talk about how we as the youth can turn
the situation around. I believe that the power to turn this
around is in our hands as young people. We can propose a
reimagined society of opportunity and reclaim our democracy.
We can fix it and find a new way at the same time. We can
bring a democratic consensus and take all people, in which I
mean, all South Africans to an authentic solution-driven
people-centred society.
There must be a time where graduates are not sitting at home
without jobs. An economy that will serve all young people.
Functioning institutions of higher learning that understand
that all we have is our dreams and nothing else. It is clear
that the ANC is not up to task to do this. Fellow young
people, young leaders, young entrepreneurs, artists,
influencers, young people in corporate, unemployed youth;
youth considering leaving the country, ...
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IsiXhosa:
... abantu abatsha ezilalini ...
English:
... we can turn this around. It starts with removing the ANC.
IsiXhosa:
Enye nenye siza kuyibona phambili.
English:
We are incredibly proud of the great work that is being done
by DA mayors across the country, who are putting young people
at the centre of their agenda and making sure that they
capacitate the future of this country for tomorrow. These DA-
led coalition governments are not telling young people to
...Interjections] ... what young people fought. Thank you very
much.
Ms N N CHIRWA: Greetings to Commander in Chief of the EFF
Julius Sello Malema all the officials, commissars, grand
forces and sympathisers of the only movement that cares about
the wellbeing of young people in this country today. Today, we
commemorate and remember the relentless and monumental youth
of 1976 who at the height ... [Interjections.]
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D NTOMBELA): Please do not drown
the speaker. Give her a chance to speak, please.
IsiXhosa:
ILUNGU ELIHLONIPHEKILEYO: Ubazelaphi abantu bango-1976 yena?
Ms N N CHIRWA: Today we remember the relentless and monumental
youth of 1976, who at the height of the display of hate and
oppression against black people, took to the streets to remind
the apartheid government that guns, political power, and
stolen economic ... [Inaudible] ... meant nothing when faced
with the will and determination of young people.
This group of young people who fought the apartheid government
to death, will forever be noted as fundamental to the tenets
of what we deem as resilience, determination, sacrifice, black
power and the overcoming of white dominance in Afrikanerdom.
Just because the apartheid government was faced with unarmed
13-year old ...[Inaudible] ... in the air, the apartheid
government responded with guns and mass massacre of over 170
young people, exposing the true weakness and fragility of
white supremacy.
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This is precisely what should encourage the youth of today to
not ... [Inaudible] ...to the ANC government. All the power,
stolen monies, and guns they use to murder those who fight the
status quo, will eventually mean absolutely nothing when
confronted by the will and determination of young people. We
remind the youth of today that, our quest for true liberty for
economic freedom in our lifetime is still underway. It is by
design that we are poor. It is intentional that you are
unemployed. It is not a coincidence that are communities and
infested with crime and violence. It is not by mistake that we
have been overcome by drugs.
We are led by ANC mafias who truly benefit when we are
downtrodden, uneducated, poor, unemployed, raped, murdered,
intoxicated, and riddled with preventable illnesses. The ANC
government did not remember that we have a youth when they
looted R500 billion during a pandemic. They do not remember
that we are youth when we are sexually violated and killed as
women and gay people and ... [Inaudible] ... turned away at
police stations when we seek refuge. They do not remember that
we are youth when the ...[Inaudible] ...gets money and put it
in their mattress when we die of depression and actual hunger.
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They don’t remember that we are youth when they fail to assist
young mothers at maintenance courts, when we are desperate for
justice. They don’t remember that we are youth when we ask our
mines for a mere R1 000 raise, while chief executive officers,
CEOs old of the very same mines earn hundreds of millions.
They don’t remember that we are youth in our suffering. But
somehow, we must remember that they are elders when you push
back against their corruption, greed and hunger for power.
Young people continue being turned away from universities
because they are poor. Sisipho and Sesethu, Minister Blade
Nzimande blue ticked our plea to allow you to continue at the
University of Cape Town, UCT because you’re deserving. None of
the evidence showing a poverty will ever make him and the rest
of this political ...[Inaudible] ... put young people first in
the country. Young women I Atteridgeville, Mamelodi,
Soshanguve, Mabopane, Hammanskraal, Ga-Rankuwa, ... ANC ...
will continue asking you for sex in exchange for a job to pick
up papers on the streets, and then turn around and ask you to
respect them because their elders. There is truly no law that
the ANC government has not visited to humiliate to the youth
of this country.
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However, the time to wallow around and massage the feelings of
the regime that oversees our oppression has come to an end.
The immunity of choice to be for or against politics has truly
expired. As young people we no longer have the liberty to give
respect to criminals, just because they are 70 years old. We
respect elders with integrity, not gangsters. There are heaps
of solutions that visit this House through the EFF to bring an
end to the crisis of unemployment, violence landlessness and
exploitation of workers. It is simply not a priority for the
government of the day.
As the EFF, we will continue fighting for lower data rates.
Access to information is a human right. We will continue
calling for an end to outsourcing and that workers be
insourced in all state institutions. For mines, mineral work
and other strategic sectors of the economy to be nationalised.
For the creation of multiple state-owned banks in various
industries. We will continue to demand and fight for the
protection and promotion of infant industries and informal
traders. For free education and domestic industrialisation.
For school to be compulsory from early childhood development
when a child is three years old, and not just from Grade 1.
For every school to have a social worker to deal with dropout
challenges.
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It is alive that pupils drop out because of laziness. They do
so because poverty is stifling and has reverberating effect on
the youth. These matters are as personal as it can be for the
youth of today. The youth of today should rise up with every
chance they get, to show these gangsters wherever they show
their face that, they have truly messed with the wrong
generation. Young people must not be scared. We will outlive
all of them one by one and combined, and we must defend our
official from the African national criminals led by the money
launderer. Thank you Chairperson.
Mr S S ZONDO: Hon House Chair, the IFP congratulates the youth
who sacrificed their lives during the Soweto uprising in 1976.
They acted fearlessly in pursuit of their value and dignity,
and fought for equality and the right for quality education
under the brutal and inhumane apartheid regime. The youth who
acted against such an unjust government some 46 years ago,
show us the importance and power that the youth yield.
Their selfless act charted the way for the true inspiration
and transition into a democratic South Africa, when the rest
of world expected a civil war. This year is unlike the years
before, with regard to celebrations, as the country is finding
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itself near economic collapse and youth unemployment is at its
highest ever.
Empowerment of young people goes beyond ... [Inaudible.] ...
rally, speeches and debates. It requires us to legislate, to
act in defence and promoting of our youth agenda. It is why
the IFP is taking up the issue through our Private Member’s
Bill, the Employment Service Amendment Bill. Real and
meaningfully transformation can only take place where we have
secure jobs for all our young people.
We are putting South Africa first. We are protecting our youth
and people against the current unjust unemployment that is
driven by the illegal occupation of jobs by undocumented
foreign nationals.
We call on this House to do the same, beyond debate and Youth
Month, but in all government department programmes. Let us not
beat around the bush here, because of the harshest of
realities faced by millions of young people. Our society
remains deeply unequal and when the poor, rural black child
cannot access the same opportunity as his or her urban
counterpart, then we cannot speak of progress. When young
people are stuck without access to internet, computers,
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incubator hubs for entrepreneurship, we cannot speak of great
strides that we are making.
The aim remains, we must protect our youth and their future.
We must ensure that they have access to jobs. Their energy is
not prescribed for a lifetime of poverty. I say to all people
of our country that through the principle of self-help and
self-reliance, we can lift ourselves up out of poverty and
unemployment through solidarity and by working together.
If we act with the spirit of Ubuntu, we can achieve a goal of
rebuilding our country and rewriting the reality of our youth
into a positive one. Each one must teach one. We are to live a
better tomorrow and create a sustainable livelihood.
IsiZulu:
Somlomo, ngiyafisa ukudlula ukuthi abantu abadala lapha
ePhalamende abangasibuzi uma sikhuluma ngezindaba zentsha
basibuze ukuthi sasikuphi ngowe-1976 ngoba sikhuluma ngekusasa
lethu la. Sikhuluma ngekusasa lethu nekusasa lezingane zethu
okufanele silakhe futhi silivikele ukuze libe ikusasa
elingcono futhi eliqhakazile. Ikusasa lalelizwe lilele kubantu
abasha ...
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English:
... and we cannot deny that.
IsiZulu:
Abantu abadala uma sebehluleka ukubeka izimpilo zabantu abasha
eqopheleni elifanele kufanele baqhele kungene thina ukuze
sikwazi ukulungiselela ikusasa lethu nekusasa lalelizwe
silibeke endaweni efanele.
English:
I thank you.
Afrikaans:
Me T BREEDT: Voorsitter, ...
English:
... every year brings with yet another Youth Month, another
Youth Day, another youth debate, another Youth Parliament and
another youth theme, to set the illusion that the government
of South Africa cares about its youth. In short, another talk
shop to pacify the consciousness of the political elite into
thinking they really care about the youth of South Africa.
Afrikaans:
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Dis die ou retoriek waaraan ons gewoond is. Ons gaan vandag
die geykte vertellings van 1976 hoor, maar niks nuuts oor die
huidige jeug van Suid-Afrika nie. Die agb Khawula het reeds
die afbrekende retoriek van ’n ou ANC ...[Onhoorbaar.] ...
begin. Ons gaan dalk hoor oor hoe die jeug vandag dankbaar
moet wees vir waar hul vandag is en ons gaan hoor van
spookasem-dromery van die regerende party, wat net drome gaan
bly.
Die realiteit van Suid-Afrikaanse jeug is egter nie so
rooskleurig soos wat die ANC ons vandag wil laat glo nie. Die
statistiek is skrikwekkend.
English:
The youth unemployment rate in South Africa average 53,8% from
2013 to 2021, reaching an all-time high of 66,5% in the third
quarter of last year. The youth unemployment rate in South
Africa is expected to be 66,7% by the end of this quarter,
according to Trading Economics’ expectations.
In the long term, the South African youth unemployment rate is
projected to trend around 68% in 2023.
Afrikaans:
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Jeugwerkloosheid is ongelukkig nie die enigste donker prentjie
wat vir die jeug geskets word nie.
English:
In South Africa, youth violence has a long history and is
experienced by a significant portion of the country’s youth.
The year 2020’s latest crime stats that have been released
highlighted this unfortunate escalation in crime against
women, children and youth.
In February, Times Live already published the heading with
regard to crimes statistic – Children under siege. What would
we call the current statistics? Increases reports of children
and women being murdered have shot up by 37,2 and 70,5%
respectively.
The Ukraine-Russia crisis has seen less casualties than South
Africa during the exact same period. The difference – we are
not in a war.
Afrikaans:
Hierdie is nie eens om van die haaglike realiteit van kinders
van bendgeteisterde gebiede soos die van die Kaapse Vlakte en
Skiereiland te noem nie. Die wêreld het sy asem opgehou oor
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die skoolskietery in Texas in die VSA, maar niemand het ’n oog
geknip of ’n woord gerep dat op daardie selfde dag, die
polisie in die Wes-Kaap, bendegeweld en skietery probeer die
hok slaan het, en mense in hegtenis geneem het vir die vorige
week se noodlottige skietery nie.
Wat maak hierdie sinnelose moorde wat in die meeste gevalle
onskuldige slagoffers, wat op die verkeerde tyd op die
verkeerde plek was, anders en minder nuuswaardig? Daily
Maverick beskryf hierdie bendegeweld as “amounting massacre”.
Boonop hierdie syfers is daar ’n groeiende tendens van jeug
wat hul aan misdaad skuldig maak.
Die Departement vn Korrektiewe Dienste het Maandag gesê dat
hulle bekommerd is oor die toename in die jeug wat betrokke
raak in misdaad. Daar is tans meer as 42 000 jeugmisdadigers
in die land se tronke.
Hierdie is net ’n paar skokkende statistieke wat die realiteit
om ’n jong mens in Suid-Afrika te wees, verteenwoordig. En as
ek alles moet vertel, dan gaan ons dit nie kan opnoem nie. Ons
gaan nie Jeugdag kan vier nie, maar ons sal ’n begrafnis hou
en huil oor wat Jeugdag kon wees, wat dit sou wees, as die ANC
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nie in beheer was nie, en as die verlede nie belangriker as
die hede is nie.
Van Coke Kartel sing ’n liedjie:
Verskoon my hierdie siniese stemtoon
Daar is iets wat my al lank al pla
Ek kan nie my vinger daarop sit nie.
En hulle vra later, wat het van ons geword?
Ek kan my vinger daarop sit. Dis die ANC. Dit is wat met ons
gebeur het en onshet niks anders as die ... [Tyd verstreke.]
... in die ANC se magsig geword nie. Dankie.
Ms M E SUKERS: Hon House Chairperson, our greatest asset in
this country is not the minerals in our soil, but the youth of
our nation. Children are heritage from the Lord, offspring, a
reward from Him. Like arrows in the hands of the warrior, are
children born in one’s youth. The Jewish writer and Psalmist,
King David, recognises the potency of youth and the promise it
holds for the future.
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For the purposes of this debate, the ACDP wishes to focus on
key drivers and barrier to build resilience and
sustainability. The biggest barrier is the lack of coherence
in initiatives at the community level. Reaching the youth on
365-day basis should become our biggest commitment to drive
change that will be sustainable.
In my constituency, that includes the rural Karoo, it is
evident that we suffer from a lack of creativity and coherence
to ensure that we reach young people in their environment. Our
best efforts are wasted when there is no coherence in the
programmes we drive at local, provincial and national levels.
I come from recruitment and if you want to be successful in
your aims, you must have a targeted approach and a well-
defined plan. We have none.
We speak past each other, as we are doing this morning, as key
role players that are critical linkages in the chain to reach
the youth. As I said yesterday, we lack a national consensus
to focus on the critical social issues that hamper our nation.
Young people are our biggest and most valuable asset. Lavender
Hill and Beaufort West are vastly different communities with
one commonality - our youth drop-out rate at late primary and
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early high school years. When you drive through the Karoo,
Beaufort West, Victoria West, you find young people standing
at garages begging for food or money. The best time of their
lives is wasted. We are losing the youth at the most critical
stage of their development.
What must we do? This country does not lack money; it lacks
creative focus. We must create catchment areas and programmes
for youth that dropped out from school, link the youth to a
programme in his immediate environment, reduce the days that
the child or a young person is out of learning or development.
The task, C S Lewis says, of the modern educator is not to cut
down jungles, but to irrigate deserts. Let us irrigate the
deserts at the Cape Flats, the Central Karoo with a central
and laser-sharp focus to reach young people. Let me say, on
the next 16 June, break up Parliament and have it in our
communities, in Lavender Hill, in the Karoo, in the rural
areas and speak to our young people, not to each other. Thank
you.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Thank you, House Chair, we regarded 1994 as
the turning point in the emancipation of the oppressed.
However, the youth of our country are still experiencing a
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deal of oppression from a black-led government through
challenges such as poverty, unemployment, violence, inequality
and education.
It is like a repetition of injustices. I supposed its
generation has its own struggles but here in South Africa,
young people are subjected to high levels of poverty,
unemployment and inequality. In fact, as it stands, youth
unemployment has reached alarming proportions as it is at
almost 70%.
The government has failed dismally to prioritise youth
employment. The labour market as we know, does not create
enough job opportunities. We need a kind of government that
will prioritise job creation by reopening closed firms to
strengthen local production and to ensure that we support the
programme such as the black industrialist programme.
Government must encourage small businesses and support start-
ups to create more jobs for young people.
Young people, as we know, are still oppressed through the
education system which provides less skills and training
thereby creating the skills gap that we know exist in the
labour market.
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We know the challenges that are also faced by the so-called
historical black institutions, which lack the necessary
resources to be able to attend to the needs of young people
who resides in those areas. Such inequalities are not
addressed by the Department of Education as young people are
most affected by it in instances such as one that have to do
with lack of funding, accommodation and a question of student
debt has not been resolved. A typical example of this
education inequality is a meeting that was held between the
Portfolio Committee on Higher Education and Training, The
Department of Higher Education and Training, the Council for
Higher Education of Walter Sisulu and student representative
council to receive a full account on questioned
accreditations, status of five qualifications offered by
Walter Sisulu University, WSU, it was confirmed that there
were 221 students who graduated from illegitimate programme
between last year and this year. Currently, there are 166
students registered in this programme in this academic year.
This shows that black young people continue to face challenges
imposed by institutions of higher learning. In addition to
these challenges, young people suffer from gender-based
violence more especially against women and children in this
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country. Government is moving very slow to try and root out
this problem.
It is time for us to demonstrate and put these multiple crises
at the centre of national dialogue. Youth unemployment,
violence against women and children, and lack of quality
education must be addressed as issues of national importance.
Young people deserve better. Government must stop being an
oppressor in a democratic system. I thank you, House Chair.
Mr V ZUNGULA: Thank you, House Chairperson, the youth is the
future of this country. However, there is no future for the
youth if they country does not have a future.
There is no future when 67% of the youths are unemployed.
Almost 50% of the country is dependent on social grant and 68
people are murdered daily. There is no future when the so-
called leaders of our country are money launderers, kidnap and
torture people, evade taxes, violate immigration laws, and
unethical leaders who hide millions of US dollars in their
mattresses. The only people we know, who holds such high
volumes of US dollars in cash are Central Intelligence Agency,
CIA, agents and spies. The youths have no future when the
country is run by CIA agents and spies.
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Order, hon members.
Don’t drown the speaker, please.
Mr V ZUNGULA: Young people can’t inherit a country when
justice is biased and people aren’t equal before the law.
Young people can’t inherit a country when those in power
suspend those who are investigating them. Only dictators do
that. Young people must rise and reclaim our country from
descending into dictatorship. Young people must reclaim the
country from the wealthy who use their power and status to
avoid being held accountable.
Parliament must safeguard the future of this country by
fulfilling its constitutional mandate. Parliament must
safeguard the future of this country by holding the executive
accountable especially for serious transgression to the law.
This Youth Day, must not be like other youth days where we say
the same things over and over again.
IsiXhosa:
Makuyiwe apho kufele khona ithole. Apho kufele ithole ke,
kusekuphathweni ngabophuli-mthetho, abantu abasebenzisana
namanye amazwe ekubulaleni ilizwe lethu.
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English:
... Young people must reclaim this country from billionaires
who have never invented anything. Billionaires who are
obsessed about money, but not the future generations of this
country. Billionaires who take endless loans that sell out the
sovereignty of our country, loans that will be paid by future
generations who do not even benefit from these loans.
Billionaires who treat the running of our country as a side
hustle. Billionaires who are greedy and are even willing to
kill those who oppose them. Young people, this is our country.
Let us reclaim our country from thieves. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members, I
think we need to introduce traffic lights so that when the
House goes out of order, besides me saying the House is out of
order, traffic lights show red. Hon members, please control
your voices.
An HON MEMBER: House Chair, red is a very important colour.
Please respect it.
Mr B N HERRON: Thank you, House Chair, 28 years ago, on the
first Youth Day commemorated in the newly democratic South
Africa, then President Mandela announced the establishment of
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the Nelson Mandela Children’s Fund. A year later, at the
launch of the fund, he uttered the famous line that: “There
can be no keener revelation of a society’s soul than the way
in which it treats its children”.
The vision of a new society that guides us should already
be manifest in the steps we take to address the wrong
done to our youths and to prepare for their future. Our
actions and policies, and the institutions we create,
should be eloquent with care, respect and love.
He said.
When we commemorate Youth Day, tomorrow, we are duty bound to
acknowledge our failings in living up to that standard. Even
more important are the hard questions we must ask looking
forward. What are we going to do better?
In 1976, South Africa’s youth demonstrated that they had the
urgency, recognised the wrongfulness of the society, and had
the power to effect change. Today’s youths have no less
urgency, and have no less consciousness. Instead of being
ground down by apartheid, they are kept down by a rank
education system, unemployment and poverty.
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Job creation was the focus of the President’ Sona, this year,
but the situation remains dire. The rate of unemployment fell
by 1 percentage point in the last quarter. But a 34%
unemployment rate is not a number to be celebrated. It is an
acknowledgement of a crisis.
The cycle of poverty is unstoppable if people don’t have
access to any income. It is naïve to expect our young people
to excel on empty stomachs. There is plenty of scope for job
creation in the areas of refurbishment, restoration and
recovery from our long-term economic slump. We need the skills
to exploit these opportunities.
We need to work to engineer an employment domino effect by
fixing public infrastructure, refurbishing our cities and
towns and fulfilling our promise to house our citizens in
dignified environments. We begin the knock-on effect on job
creation.
When we are seen to be succeeding, others, including investors
will notice.
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We celebrate Youth Day to commemorate the bravery of the youth
of our past, but also to steal our resolve to develop a
sustainable and modern society for young people tomorrow.
As a society, we have a duty to the youth to protect and
nurture them. All of us, including the youths, have a duty to
fix our country, to contribute to developing a fairer, more
hopeful and more compassionate soul. Thank you.
Ms N K SHARIFF: House Chairperson, we should not be debating
how to promote resilient in young people – no! no! We should
be removing all obstacles that are restricting young people so
they do not have to continuously be resilient. Resilient means
being strong enough to bounce back from difficulties and
overcome it. If anything, we should ensure that young people
and generation that come after us do not have to go through
what generations before us went through. We do not need to be
resilient, we need to be given opportunities to better
ourselves and our lives.
Before we can speak of sustaining livelihoods, there first has
to be some level of attainable livelihoods. Young people
cannot even get jobs in this country, let alone be able to
sustain any sort of livelihood. Young people cannot afford to
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buy homes of their own. They cannot afford to put petrol in
their cars or afford to take a bus or taxi to an interview.
Young people go to school, get into depth, go through the most
and still cannot find a job that can give them a decent
income.
If you want to help young people start there. Young women are
being violated, raped, murdered and abused today. Any plans
this failing ANC government thinks they have to combat gender-
based violence and femicide is delayed and pretty much non-
existence. How can we look at a better tomorrow when we are
struggling right now, today? Young men are struggling with
anxiety and depression. They are being thrown out into the
wild without the support needed to succeed. How can we talk
about a better tomorrow without patronising young people we
are talking to today?
Young people with disabilities experience this country at its
worst. The Department of Women, Youth and Persons with
Disabilities suck. They have no programmes or plans to give
young people with disabilities a hand up. This department must
once just close their doors because they are hella
disappointing. We have some of the most amazing and inspiring
young people in the world. Young people are moving and shaking
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up the status quo. They are innovating new ways to fix old
problems. Fighting for equality and protecting our
environment.
The vast networks of young people coming together to help each
other and share opportunities amongst our co-workers is what
makes us so special. The collaborations from those young
professionals and entrepreneurs plugging each other to the
young people in civil society, and those in government that
are demanding change, to those in the media and entertainment
industry, we see you. It is up to us to bring the change we
are so desperately looking for. Young people are resilient,
not because we want to be, we don’t have a choice and it
should never be like this. We don’t need more debates. We need
this government to start taking us seriously and move out of
the way so that we can bring change ourselves.
If you are sick and tired as I am of this failing ANC
government, make sure that you are registered to vote in the
2024 national elections. If we go out to the polls in our
numbers, we have the power to vote this ANC out and remove
them from the seats of power they keep abusing and bring in a
capable government. The DA is the only party that puts young
people in places where we can bring change. [Interjections.]
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[Applause.] Like it or not, this is a fact. No ...
[Inaudible.] ... I thank you.
Ms A S HLONGO: Ms A S HLONGO: House Chairperson, the Chief
Whip and the Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party, hon
members, young people of South Africa, ...
IsiZulu:
... sanibonani [I greet you all]
English:
Allow me to pay tribute and celebrate the youth of 1976 who
taught us to rise and stand firm for what is right. To fight
for change and to believe in ourselves as a generation. I want
to agree with Nelson Mandela when he said:
Sometimes it falls upon a generation to be great. You be
that great generation. Let your greatness blossom.
Indeed, we are a great generation. A generation that stands in
platforms like this to fight for interest of those young
people within the system.
IsiZulu:
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Singakhohlwa-ke ukubabonga ...
English:
... those that paved the way for us to stand in these
platforms and represent young people of this country.
[Applause.] Hon members, issues of the young people need us
all as youth, united and fighting them. It does not need us to
come in party caps to fight issues of the youth. We know very
well all the challenges that young people in this country are
facing. The ANC considers youth as motive for its force for
change. Our movement has seen and supported many generation of
youth who have emerged within and outside the ANC and has made
an impact to the struggle of our young people.
The formation of the ANC itself was an initiative driven by a
young scholar, a Pan Africanist, Pixley ka Isaka Seme who made
a clarion call for the unity of all Africans in the continent.
Hon members, the youth of today exists with the effects of
unemployment, poverty and inequality. This has further been
exacerbated by COVID-19 pandemic and has had a dreadful impact
on young people with unemployment rising amongst the youth. It
is these challenges that I have manifested other social ills
such as substance abuse, crime, mental health issues and
gender-based violence. These social ills threaten the various
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of our social fibre and the youth bear the brunt of all these
challenges.
Hon members, our social transformation agenda places youth at
the centre of the debate in terms of the programmes of change
that needs to happen and currently receiving different forms
of financial assistance from government and other entities.
Building an inclusive economy has seen numerous programmes
being opened up in learnerships, training and development and
government agencies promoting, designing entrepreneurial
programmes. Bringing the youth in the economy is the most
important task that needs to be undertaken by our government.
Chairperson, the latest employment statistics provides some
cause of relieve with 370 000 jobs being created in the first
quarter of this year. The youth is the future hence government
programmes and the budget are structured towards programmes
that take youth forward towards the future. Therefore, these
programmes align themselves towards building an inclusive
economy with the youth across the masterplans of the economic
reconstruction and recovery plan with the youth being placed
in these plans not only as beneficiaries, but also
contributing to the economy.
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The process is mutually reinforcing with youth development
from finance programmes whilst government ... [Inaudible.] ...
more in shaping and designs of programmes that addresses
specific and dedicated needs of young people. The ideas and
energies of our youth are already being deployed in response
to the socio-economic conditions through their innovative and
entrepreneurial spirit, especially in townships and rural
areas.
We speak of the story of Sibusiso Shabangu from Sibange
village in Kwamazi in Mpumalanga, who together with his six
employees was manufacturing oil, diesel, petrol, jet fuel and
LP gas from his backyard using biotechnology from plastic
waste. At that time Sibusiso was manufacturing 200 litres of
petrol, 200 litres of diesel and 50 litres of petrol a day and
local community was a buzz and supportive of Sibusiso. We call
upon small enterprise development agency and other relevant
state institutions to continue to provide the necessary
support to innovators and entrepreneurs like Sibusiso who are
providing economic solutions by speedily assisting them to
meet compliance standard in order to supply the local markets
and in process create youth employment.
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The National Youth Development Agency, NYDA which is an agency
that is led by young women of this country who are equally
capable of leading, continues to harness the spirit of
entrepreneurship through their grant funding. We have to
acknowledge that entrepreneurship has the ability to foster
great creation in the country and many young people have taken
advantage of prosperous opportunity. Good example is Zimela
Mhlongo, a 28-year-old man from ... [Inaudible.] ... village
in Mpumalanga was able to start his carwash business at the
height of COVID-19 with the help of the National Youth
Development Agency and has employed 13 young people in his
business.
Also in KwaZulu-Natal, a young person aged 34 by the name of
Nakubomke was able to secure funding from the provincial
Department of Economic Development Tourism and Environmental
Affairs Operation Vula Fund and from the National Youth
Development Agency to adequately run her business of selling
purified water.
House Chairperson, earlier on I alluded on other social ills
that are affecting youth as crime, substance abuse and gender-
based violence. We must use sport and creative arts as a tool
against crime and substance abuse in our communities to
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promote peace. Initiatives such as sports boost resilience and
strengthens the live skills of the youth amongst factors such
as crime and drugs. The development of recreational facilities
throughout our communities will also enable our communities to
utilise the arts, culture and sports initiatives effectively,
enable the participation of youth and reject unbecoming
tendencies which undermines our social cohesion.
The national strategic plan against gender-based violence and
femicide is a plan devised by all social partners to fight
gender-based violence. This must also find expression in the
schooling curriculum of basic education and tertiary
institutions if we are to win the fight against gender-based
violence. This also includes the participation of stakeholders
such as us to continue to raise awareness about detrimental
effects of gender-based violence in families and the broader
society. This is towards the efforts of fighting toxic
behaviour and toxic social norms that find expression in our
societies.
Hon members, if we are to end gender-based violence, the
national strategic plan and gender-based violence has to
include in all operations of learning whether sports, arts and
culture, schools and further education and the broader media.
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As the ANC, we are calling for all members of the society to
become gender-based violence activists and take the stand
against gender-based violence.
Hon members, as I conclude, another pandemic that does not
receive enough coverage is the plight of suicide and
depression in our country, particularly amongst young men in
our society. We must promote cultural, verbal expressions and
talk about our issues. Many young people are suffering in
silence due to the socio-economic conditions that they
experience. We must break the silence. I thank you.
[Applause.]
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Thank you, House Chairperson, in 1976,
there was a student uprising both in Soweto and in the Western
Cape fighting for better quality education, language, and to
get education itself.
Today, we have education and we are not taking advantage of
it. Many don’t even attend classes, that’s why we have a 60%
dropout.
In 1976, we did not have enough facilities. Today, we have the
facilities but we are burning, destroying, and vandalising
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them. The damages to the infrastructure alone are worth half a
billion rand.
In 1976, we did not have free education. We fought for it. We
have free education today. The money that we are providing
through the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, we
use it for cellphones, airtime, designer clothes, and hair and
nails and not for the intended purpose.
In 1976, the youth even worked part-time to earn a living to
supplement the income that they relied on from their parents.
The youth of today, the income that they get from NSFAS ...
they don’t want to work part-time and earn a living, they
believe they are entitled to it, but they are partying,
abusing alcohol, and dropping out of colleges and schools.
That’s the norm. One in two children that starts going to
school don’t even finish school. What is the future we are
creating when we say the youth are the future of this country?
It comes back to what we said yesterday about dysfunctional
families and what has gone wrong.
Let me give you some statistics, twenty-three thousand girls
under the age of 18 ended up pregnant, nine hundred and
thirty-four of these girls were under the age of 14. Fifty
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percent of fathers at the age of 15 to 24 are unemployed. What
does it tell you? The number of children, not women, that are
falling pregnant both as a result of the conduct of boys and
girls ... it all comes back to the issue of dysfunctional
families. Are we saying we are going to expect a better future
if this is going to be the conduct of the youth of today?
Certainly not.
Population growth is one of the root causes of unemployment in
the country because we are not able to accommodate the number
of children that are being born into the employment sector.
There is not enough career guidance, lack of experience, and
mismatch at school.
Lastly, I want to touch on one thing. [Time expired.] Thank
you very much. [Interjections.]
Mr S M JAFTA: Thank you, hon House Chair ... [Inaudible.] ...
existing government led measures that are geared towards
promoting young people’s livelihoods and resilience in the
midst of the global pandemic and high rates of unemployment.
Our assessment is that the road ahead is laden with
ambivalence, uncertainty and hopelessness for these young
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population. Here are the number to demonstrate this assertion:
South Africa has a population of 58 million people. Forty
million of this population comprises of economically
unproductive and old stratum. Only 18 million of this
population constitute the youth. This means our economy, which
largely requires agile, young and enterprising young South
Africans to stay up the economic spin offs will perpetually be
on the fault line. The rate of unemployment amongst young
people is instructive in this regard. Only 35% of South
Africa’s 13 million youth population is employed. It is not
shocking therefore that 65% of these youths are unemployed.
The recent report of World Bank tells us where the problem
lies. Firstly, because doing business in South is cumbersome;
the high tariff rates to imported goods; the regulatory red
tape and challenges relating to visa requirements, all account
to this problem; secondly, the rail infrastructure is in bad
state. Eskom’s infrastructure is old and fragile; and lastly,
we have not moved with speed to invest in the digital economy
and building domestic technical skills. We have also failed to
promote small business development and expanding access to
finance.
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The World Bank’s findings cannot be taken lightly. Therefore,
until we attend to them with efficiency, our young population
will remain trapped in cycles of grinding poverty and despair.
It is therefore upon us to shoot through all cylinders and
take stock of all the data at our disposal. I thank you, House
Chair.
Mr W M MADISHA: Thank you, House Chair, the day we are here to
remember is a very important and significant one for all South
Africans both young and old, although South Africans in
particular had already risen to fight for equality and freedom
by 16 June 1976. It is an open secret that activism and an
unequal political change were intensified by what the youth
contributed during that period.
Today, South Africa is called a democratic country because all
South Africans can vote. But South Africa has become the most
oppressive country in the entire world when it comes to what
the young people are faced with. It has been said by the
entire world institutions that we are number 176 when it comes
to poverty and equality.
The ANC government has succeeded to deliver economic
oppression, to deny the youth access to jobs, free education
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and the youth development. It has succeeded to the youth and
the poor South Africans proper health services, to deploy to
all legislative institutions, including here, the majority of
politicians who do not understand what’s the mandate to serve.
It is those deployees who believe that which they are supposed
to do is to boo whatever opposition there is, so that if you
rise and say here you are wrong, the best thing that they can
say is boo moo. That is what they know. The ANC has succeeded
to give jobs to bureaucrats who believe that deployment means
theft and corruption. The ANC has succeeded in its failure to
create jobs for the majority of the people of South Africa.
What South Africa is faced with today is 28 years of
sufferance of torture and the greatest level of theft. It is
extremely disappointing. What the ANC has succeeded here to do
is to rise and say each time wherever and whenever people rise
to say we are hungry, they will quote Nelson Mandela and other
people who fought for freedom, and they will not say, here we
have failed. Therefore, the people of South Africa must now
rise and say, ANC you have disappointed us ... [Time expired.]
Thank you very much. Moo ANC, boo ANC. You are failures.
Mr M NYHONTSO: House Chairperson, the demographics in the
youth sector in occupied Azania are heavily skewed, in favour
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of the inheritors of the proceeds of riches, for many years of
exploitation of the mineral and human resources of the land.
Wealth in the hands of a few has not been redistributed, since
the advent of the new dispensation in 1994. We have in
existence a pyramid of privileges, wherein the upper-class
children of the extremely well off by tiny minority have a
job, and you have a bend of the hard working middle-class
professionals in their variety, whose children seek to sustain
a semblance of privilege and opportunities to make it in life.
This is where racial categorisation continues to drive a wedge
of divisions, even African families are to ask whether these
barriers will ever come to an end. At the bottom of the
pyramid, is a huge majority of degraded and despised set of
young people, from the rural poor communities and the urban
homeland, who can only escape in drips and drops from their
social background through hard and painful measures. This
scenario is unsustainable. It is a powder cage waiting to
explode. In the same manner that June 16 1976 uprising was
inevitable resolution, from the bottom, the grass roots, from
those who do not have a future to look up to.
We understand June 1976 because our leaders were brains behind
it. We remember Bethal trialist, we remember Zeph Mothopeng,
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we remember John Ganya, we salute bro Mike Matsobane and 15
others. The PAC is of the view that, in overhaul measures that
are taken by the government, should be put in place. We need
to fast-track the upscaling of skills for young people, and
open the institutions of higher learning to a much wider set
of youth from the bottom of the pyramid. We need a well-
rounded education programme to upscale the livelihood of young
people.
We need a new delta net of mass employment programme driven by
government, to include the majority of young people on the
development of Southern Africa geopolitical region. If we do
not consider changing our perspective, young people are
doomed. There is no future to look up to. Thank you very much.
Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chair, Happy Elder Day, we must
stand to the day, they don’t like 70-year olds here in this
Parliament. Inspired by the struggles of the youth of 1976, Al
Jama-Ah is throwing its weight behind campaigns for true
liberation by the youth. This is part of the renewal campaign
of us who have roots in the liberation movement. We must
support the revival of the governing party as it is the only
party with the numbers or idea of liberation movement. Just
imagine South Africa led by the DA coalition, that will not be
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true liberation that the youth wants. Black faces in the DA
rejects.
I want to tell the youth, as we commemorate the sacrifices of
those who fought for them in 1976, that Cabinet Ministers have
seen to it that there are funds in their votes for them. Al
Jama-Ah will keep them accountable, and the development
agencies like the NDA, in fact, go an extra mile to make
programmes happen. We are already working with some of these
programmes. Al Jama-Ah will ask the Cabinet Ministers, what
what do you have for the youth in your line items for Paarl,
Mtubatuba, Harding, Mpame village, Groutville, Dimbaza,
Umzinto, Bushbuckridge, Bokmakierie, New Horizons in Pelikan
Park and many other villages, locations and townships, where
Al Jama-Ah is throwing its weight behind the youth and
commemorating June 16 where they live this year?
No other political party is doing this for the youth of South
Africa. If they do it, it is for narrow political party
interests. Al Jama-Ah is calling on the media to help tell the
youth where these revolutionary events are taking place, and
themselves attend these events, and report to the nation, the
untold stories of June 16, especially from the Western Cape,
and settle the debate, whether the call for education before
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liberation, or the call for liberation before education was a
better call, in view of the crisis in education today,
especially, in the Western Cape, where the DA is firing our
best school Principals, like Wesley Neuman.
The learners of Heathfield High are picketing today at venue
where conciliation is being done. Hon members must support the
conciliation, and Heathfield learners will be so proud as they
see the hon members are there for them, and it is not just lip
service in this debate. So, see you in Paarl, at Kingston High
School, in Klein Nederbgurg at 10 am tomorrow. That is the
place to be, where Al Jama-Ah will tell the untold story of
June 16.
Afrikaans:
Pollie, ons gaan Pêrel toe ...
English:
... and for the ladies in the House, Pollie is a lady, she’s
going to Paarl to visit her pêrels [pearls]. Thank you very
much, hon House Chair.
Ms A L A ABRAHAMS: Thank you, House Chairperson. I thought
long and hard about the topic for this year’s Youth Day
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debate, and I could not help but think, why does this
government continually burden young people with the need to be
resilient? Why must young people take on even more and absorb
more stress to keep this system, this country functioning? For
example, getting an education at all levels during these past
two years of COVID-19 and lockdown, was a nightmare.
Yet, as soon as we survive one thing, as young people we are
expected to bounce back, in the name of a lesson learnt in
resilience and a better tomorrow. But what about the present
and government’s role to shield us from never ending shocks?
The Ruling Party, the ANC, through a litany of bad policies,
continues to strip away all opportunities, forcing young
people into survival mode, robbing them of a joyful and
carefree youth. We know many ANC members gave up their youth
for this country, but why are we still having to give up ours
28 years later?
What was the point of your struggle, if we are still paying
the price? Such as the price that poor and unemployed young
South Africans will pay, due to Minister Lindiwe Zulu’s new
R350 Social Relief Distress, SRD, Grant regulations. The
qualifying criteria for this grant has recently changed. The
lower food poverty line of R624 as a minimum monthly income
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has now been reduced to R350. A new definition for income has
also been crafted in the regulations, to include all forms of
income including, support from your family members.
This essentially means, if five of your extended family
members deposit R70 a month into your bank account, making up
R350 every month, you will no longer qualify for this grant,
and there goes the money young people used on transport to get
to a job interview, or to get the data required to search and
apply for jobs. The ANC government does this knowing, 60,7% of
applicants for the grant are young, unemployed people, under
35 years, and the majority of whom are women. That is how much
the ANC cares about the youth.
The excuse given in this regard is that, there is only enough
money for 10,5 million South Africans to receive the grant. I
recently read that SA Revenue Services, SARS, collected
R1,564 trillion in taxes. Where does this money go? I’m sure
every South African knows the answer to that. These kind of
regulations and policy decisions force young people to do
anything and everything to survive, like young women
increasing their economic dependence on abusive male partners,
or young people collecting recycling materials, doing odd jobs
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and hawking on the streets. Some of our youth even involve
themselves in risky forms of employment such as sex work.
In their desperation to find work, youth in rural areas
migrate to unfamiliar urban areas, finding themselves living
in informal settlements in unhealthy living conditions with
non-existent basic services and subjected to daily acts of
crime. The ANC has failed to provide young people with
opportunities to earn the honest and dignified living that
they have been promised, and as long as the ANC is in power,
the generational poverty cycle will continue.
Chairperson, before we can talk about sustainable livelihoods
for a better tomorrow for young people, we need to first fix
the present. We need our youth to make it to adulthood, with
their mind, body, emotion and spirit still intact. The
President can start fixing the present by doing away with all
COVID-19 restrictions, to kick-start the economy, giving hope
to the unemployed youth. Welcome to South Africa, survival of
the fittest, survival of the most resilient. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Hon House Chairperson,
members of the executive, hon members and fellow South
Africans, on the occasion of this debate for Youth Day we must
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never lose sight of what we seek to achieve through this
exercise. We do not converge just to exchange words of
disagreement, nor are we here to play into the gallery of
seeking frame, glory and relevance. We gather to reflect on
the past that has led to the present and how we can, in the
present, work to secure a better future for the youth of this
country.
We have gathered here not to see who can shout the most and
list the most problems. We are here to provide solutions to
the complex problems that face our youth. The task at hand
requires clarity of thought. It requires us to be factual and
truthful because not doing so takes us further away from
finding long-lasting solutions. We must be cautious of the
lumpenproletariat that makes revolutionary sounds to sway us
from the truth because there are enemies of progress. We must
always seek truth from facts as the Chinese will say. We can
never shy away or turn a blind eye to the problems faced by
our youth which are in the main driven by a poor-performing
economy. The economic situation has resulted in concerning
statistics with youth unemployment sitting at 63,9%. This is,
however, a reduction of 2,6% from the 66,5% in the previous
quarter which indicates that beyond the difficulties we are
making progress. The Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan
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remains our most effective weapon in resolving the economic
challenges faced by our youth. The Presidential Employment
Stimulus Package has resulted in the support of 850 000
opportunities. It is such interventions that show the
commitment of the government to resolving the challenges faced
by the youth of our country.
The Youth Micro Enterprise Relief Fund together with the
National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, grant funding
programme has collectively sustained 8 600 jobs in the
economy. Through the NYDA Jobs Programme, 6 000 young people
have been placed in jobs. The Department of Home Affairs has
opened up 10 000 opportunities for young people through its
Digitisation Programme. The SA Police Service will in the
financial year 2022-23 will enlist 7 000 new recruits. These
are some of but a few examples of how the government is
actively reducing youth unemployment. We understand that
growing the economy is crucial for youth development and
growth. The Key to the growth of our country is
industrialisation and beneficiation. The Beneficiation
Strategy provides a framework that seeks to translate the
country’s competitive advantage derived from mineral resources
endowment to national competitive advantage. The strategies
aligned to a national industrialisation programme which seeks
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to enhance the quality and quantity of exports, promote the
creation of decent employment and diversification of the
economy, including promoting the green economy. Further, the
strategy is contributing towards the strengthening of the
knowledge economy in support of the overall competitiveness of
our economy.
As part of attracting investment and companies to where people
are found, the revitalisation of the industrial parks located
in black African townships is being implemented with the
building of digital hubs to attract youth innovators and
entrepreneurs. Through the partnership with Small Enterprise
Development Agency, Seda, mentors and consultants are placed
to coach and guide the youth in the hubs as part of
incubation. In April this year, one in Botshabelo Industrial
Park in the Free State was launched. The next project is in
Mandeni KwaSithebe Industrial Park. The rest are to follow in
all provinces. Through interventions of the Department of
Trade and Industry, the government has created opportunities
for industries to thrive.
This month has already started solidly with the VW plant line
in Kariega in the Eastern Cape producing 1 million VW Polos
for export. We launched a new food factory carry, Kerry
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Ingredients, in KwaZulu-Natal, Corobrik. At the end of the
month the Industrial Development Corporation, IDC, will launch
the pilot township economy programme to improve access to
finance and de-risk SMMEs through business support measures,
all benefiting young people. By September, the production of
industrial helium will start in the Free State. We are one of
only eight countries globally producing this gas. The Chinese
company Royal Industries will complete its tile manufacturing
facility. The SA Food Exporter Network will be launched.
We also aim to conclude the SA Customs Union formal tariff.
offer of the African Continental Free Trade Agreement,
covering 90% of all tariffs. By October, the Tshwane Special
Economic Zone, SEZ, the 20 aims to complete 11 automotive
component plants in support of Ford’s R16 billion investment
employing about 2 000 workers in the new zone. The SA Steel
Mills aims to complete its production plant as announced at
the Investment Conference and the draft Patents Bill will be
submitted to the Cabinet for consideration. These are about a
few progressive industrialisation projects that the
government, working with the private sector, continues to
build into reality.
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Those who have not bothered to familiarise themselves with
this work must not speak much and just relax and not come here
and discourage the youth that their future is bleak. A nation
that does not invest in the education of its youth is
practically building a society without a future. It is our
desire to see a better future for our youth that drives our
unwavering investment in education. Over the years, we have
increased both infrastructure and financial support to
increase higher education and training intakes. The number of
enrolments for public higher education stood at above
1 million in 2022. This is an increase from 837 776 in the
year 2010. This is a clear indication that we are progressing
rather than regressing.
Our higher education system has drawn international interest
with recent numbers of international students has grown from
34 000 to about 51 000 in 2022. This is a clear indication
that our infrastructure built for higher education is allowing
us to increase access to higher education. The Department of
Higher Education and Training invested R56,8 billion in the
2021 financial year for post-school education and training.
This was an increase from R25,1 billion in the 2011-12
financial year, doubling the investment that we have been
making in education. In the year 2018, the Department of
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Higher Education and Training introduced a bursary which
subsidised the poor working-class students. This is part of
the progressive call made by the ANC Youth League for free
education in our lifetime. The National Student Financial Aid
Scheme benefited 765 740 learners with a total amount of about
R37 billion for the 2020 academic year. This is a huge
investment by the government towards securing education and a
brighter future for the South African youth. This shows that
we remain committed to the continued improvement of the
education levels of our youth. The government continues to
build a new social compact that brings together social
partners, labour, communities and business. These
interventions will see public-private partnerships being put
in place in the ports of Durban and Ngqura.
We are already looking at the reform that will reduce the red
tape to accelerate growth and job creation. To build a better
future for the youth we must invest in strategic
infrastructure that will benefit generations that will come
after us. The state of the nation address by President Cyril
Ramaphosa makes it clear that over the next 10 years, the
government will invest about R100 billion with R96 billion
targeted for student accommodation, roads and infrastructure
to telecommunications, as well as water and sanitation. The
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Spanish-American philosopher George Santayana teaches us that
those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it.
We must never forget that the youth of 1976 stood against
Bantu education. And it was the ANC that supported this vision
and continues to say the doors of learning shall be opened to
all. Even today, we continue to hold true to our commitment by
opening doors of learning. The youth of 1976 stood against
making Afrikaans compulsory in schools. It is a shame to see
products of those who benefited in marginalising a black child
stands here and say the ANC has failed. They never wanted the
ANC to succeed. And even today they still do not wish to see
it making progress. They are nothing but armchair critics with
nothing to offer except being enemies of progress.
June 16 reminds us that young people of different generations
have always acted to solve the unique problems of their day.
The youth of today also has the responsibility to provide
leadership on issues facing their generation. It is for these
young people to provide clear solutions on how to respond to
the present challenges the youth of today ought to find
innovative ways of tackling the challenges we are currently
confronted with. Young people should become active agents of
change. They must lead the country through the innovative idea
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that speaks to the leadership that is needed amongst young
people in all sectors of society. Being an active agent,
progressive change speaks to an ability to be proactive in
thinking about ways to overcome the challenges we face.
We need young people that will think beyond themselves. We
need a youth that is committed to a common future for all. A
youth that will commit themselves to actively creating a
better South Africa. The pursuit of individual wealth ought
not to outweigh the commitment to building a better future for
all. Young people ought to work towards a common future for
all by thinking of solutions to structural problems that hold
our country back. We need leaders that will become think-
tanks, action people and role models for progressive change.
We all need people who will come and use these platforms to
campaign and say, remove the ANC.
IsiZulu:
Enye nenye sizobuye siyibone. [Ubuwelewele.]
English:
That shows a lack of vision. This will require commitment ...
[Interjections.] ... discipline, selflessness and ambition to
grow beyond the limit of self.
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IsiZulu:
Angazi-ke bahlonishwa be-IFP, ukuthi uma ... [Ubuwelewele.]
... kuthiwa kukhishwa abadala ubani ozokhishwa lapho kunina
mhlonishwa u-Singh.
English:
In conclusion, Chair, it is our firm belief that the future of
our youth is ... [Interjections.] ...
IsiZulu:
Nk M S KHAWULA: Sihlalo, ngiyaxolisa, ngale kokuthi aze
aqhubeke, kancane nje.
English:
Yes, it is a point of order.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Yes, hon member. Hon
Deputy Minister, please take your seat. [Interjections.] Order
hon members! Hon members! Hon members! Hon members!
IsiZulu:
Nk M S KHAWULA: Ngicela nithule. Ngisukuma ngoMthetho u-66 ...
[Ubuwelewele.] ... ngicela nithule kancane nilalele ...
[Ubuwelewele.]
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English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members from the
ANC. I want to listen to the point of order and you are
disrupting the person I have recognised. Let us give the hon
member the opportunity, please. Please proceed.
IsiZulu:
Nk M S KHAWULA: Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo. Ngizizwa ngiphatheka
kabi. Umhlonishwa wami ngebhadi usuka e-KwaZulu-Natal
uzokhuluma ngentsha. Uzobala indawo yaseMandeni KwaSithebe.
KwaSithebe abantu bakhona bahola R45 ngesonto besebenzela
amanxusa. Ubohamba uyokwenza ucwaningo kuqala bese ubuye
uzokhuluma. Buzikayahlupheka. Lento oyikhulumayo uzikhulumelo
ngento ongayazi ... [Akuzwakali.] ... abantu bakithi. Nawe
ungomunye okufuneka uphume la. Ayikho into ayihlalele la
ePhalamende
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Khawula, please
take your seat. Order hon members! Hon Khawula, that is not a
point of order. It is not a point of order. It is a point for
debate. Hon Deputy Minister, before you proceed. May I request
members in the House, let us respect one another. If you want
to be respected, please respect another member as well. When a
member has been recognised you cannot just interrupt the
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member and start shouting and screaming at them. This is not a
crèche; this is the National Assembly. Please proceed, hon
member.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Thank you, hon
Chairperson. Again they are pointing to the problems that the
ANC is solving. The projects we are indicating will resolve
the very same issues that are being dealt with. In conclusion,
Chair, it is our firm belief that the future of our youth is
bright. We must continue to invest in hard work to turn the
fortunes of our youth. We must continue to work hard and never
be deterred by the enemies of progress. We must hold steadfast
and build a better and brighter future for our youth because
they will always remember that the ANC remained committed to
building a brighter future for them by presenting practical
solutions. Chairperson, I thank you.
AN HON MEMBER: Chairperson, I am concerned that this person
who was never in Parliament is not wearing a mask ...most of
them.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, may I
appeal, when the session opened the request was clearly made
for members to keep their masks on. You are sitting in close
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proximity to one another, so let us do that. May I also
request that these MPs on the right-hand side who are sitting
across from where hon Paulsen is sitting, as well as the hon
Paulsen, stop agitating one another because you are disrupting
procedures in the House. If you want to communicate with one
another, please go outside and do so. It is disrespectful when
there is a member on the podium and you are simply continuing
with the to and fro with one another. It also happened
yesterday and this is your final warning. Next time I am going
to ask you to leave the House.
Debate concluded.
CONSIDERATION OF CANDIDATE NOMINATED FOR APPOINTMENT AS
INSPECTOR-GENERAL OF INTELLIGENCE SERVICES
(Report of Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence)
Mr J J MAAKE: Hon Chairperson, comrades and colleagues,
section 7(1) of the Intelligence Services Oversight Act 40 of
1994, mandates the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence to
nominate a candidate to the National Assembly for approval by
at least two thirds of its members to be appointed as an
inspector-general by the President of the country.
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On 8 and 9 February, the committee interviewed 10 shortlisted
candidates for the position of Inspector-General of
Intelligence, IGI. The candidates were interviewed on relevant
areas regarding the role and functions of the IGI based on the
Constitution, the Act and other relevant legislation on other
matters such as the high-level review panel report.
Following deliberations, the Joint Standing Committee on
Intelligence resolved by simple majority of members present,
to nominate Rev Frank Chikane for approval by the National
Assembly for recommendation to the President for appointment
as the IGI.
There was a stage in this country, where the country went for
more than 18 months without an IGI, only because of
disagreement of parties in this House. Such a situation is
definitely undesirable for the people of our country,
especially if we go back and look at the main reason for the
establishment of such an office. We all know what used to
happen during the apartheid era. The security and intelligence
services used to do things with impunity. They were a law unto
themselves. The creation of this office was to try to curb all
these abnormalities. We therefore can’t afford to go for long
periods without this very important and serious watchdog
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office, especially after what came out of the Zondo Commission
Report.
Having said all this, let us all look at the appropriate
person needed in an office of this nature. Impartiality,
honesty, high morality, integrity, dedication and patriotism,
putting your country first before personal interest ... Let us
then turn to the nominee that we are bringing to the House.
The interview of this candidate was done in view of the whole
of South Africa and maybe even the whole world that cared to
watch the interview. I would like to believe that the whole
world saw who the best candidate in the interviews was. So, my
belief is that any right-thinking person, without prejudice
and not influenced by hatred but being objective and rational,
would make the right decision in this case for the sake of our
country.
Hypocrisy should be declared a sin to those that are believers
and if it was ... [no audio] ... It is hypocritical for some
of us in this House to have identified Nelson Rolihlahla
Mandela as a terrorist for over 27 years, and suddenly changed
their hearts and called him a hero. The fact remains that he
was one of the founders of uMkhonto weSizwe. He was the first
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commander-in-chief of this terrorist organisation, therefore
making him the biggest terrorist.
Rev Chikane was never a commander-in-chief. As far as I know,
he was never a terrorist. He is a man of the cloth, who was
poisoned and nearly killed for his convictions by a system
that operated with impunity. As I said earlier, this office,
like the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Ipid,
Police secretariat, Defence Secretariat, etc was established
in order to stop the madness of impunity within the security,
intelligence and defence structures of this country, to keep
them in check. Here is the right man for the job. An
impartial, honest man of high morals, a patriot, a dedicated
man with integrity, a man who without doubt can serve his
country with diligence. Everybody knows this. He stands for
the truth. He even stands up and says it when his own
organisation is going astray ... [Inaudible.] [Time expired.]
There was no debate.
Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic
Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Inkatha Freedom Fighters,
Freedom Front Plus, United Democratic Movement, African
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Transformation Movement, Good, African Independent Congress
and African National Congress.
Declarations of Vote:
Ms D KOLHER: Institutional memory is a wonderful thing. There
are those in this House who whether they like it or not
remember the last time the ANC tried to ... [Inaudible.] as
Inspector-General of Intelligence. Now, not from the moment
suggesting that the Rev Chikane is in anywhere similar to the
Constitution crushing former ANC Member of Parliament, MP,
Cecil Secrecy Bill Burgess. However, what happened after that
debacle, yes, it took years to find a replacement, everyone
would accept because the ANC put upper person that was never
going to get the two-third majority in this House. Cecil
Burges was the worst possible candidate the ANC could have
chosen to attempt to put in this position.
Therefore, years later it was Dr Dintwe, he was eventually
sworn in and he had to have a spine of steel. He was attacked
from every side and even had his top secret security clearance
removed by Arthur Fraser when he saw ... [Inaudible.] too
close to that particular fire. Well he survived, of course, Mr
Fraser was moved out then he saved by the President. He is
still in the President today and was handed a high paying job
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of director-general, DG, of Correctional Services. Ministers
attacked Dr Dintwe. Others lay complains that were false from
beginning to end, but were duly investigated and still Dr
Dintwe persevered. He did the job which was to monitor
intelligence activities. His term ended and another ANC has
suddenly produced.
Therefore, another friend colleague, Rev Chikane, a gentle and
delightful man who has a strong background, who has fight
apartheid, survived an assassination attempt. Therefore, from
1997 he became a member of the ANC National Executive
Committee, NEC, and then DG to the Presidency under Thabo
Mbeki, and a consultant to President Motlanthe and Zuma. He is
ANC to his very roots and went on from Parliament to become
the President of the Apostolic Faith Mission.
The question has to be asked is whether an ANC cadre will
stand up and act if an issue rose against a lifelong
colleague. Perhaps the Minister, he will be put an impossible
situation, is a matter of credibility. It is highly unlikely a
working member and one of the ... [Inaudible.] services will
believe that he will take their side rather than the side of
his good comrades. Whether this will play out or such
irrelevance, the perception will remain. As an elder he should
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really not be put in this position nor should the staff of the
entities be put in the position of ... [Inaudible.] with
champion.
Despite the fact that the three Democratic Alliance members of
the Judicial Service Commission, JSC, did not vote for this
candidate to be appointed, it seems according to or headlines
that it was announced to the media that our committee has
decided upon the reverend. That decision was in no way
unanimous, but that was somehow left out of the reports. This
is a specific position and need someone who will not be given
pressure from Ministers attempting to protect certain favour
to their departments. Decisions have to be taken and pushed
ahead no matter how difficult and unpopular they are. We had
huge expertise amongst these candidates, but the reverend was
a specific ANC candidate despite having been out of these ...
[Inaudible.] for many, many years.
The entire trusts of the High Level Panel report were that
intelligence must be a political not supporting any governing
party faction and seldom has been a time when the factions
have been as strong, and it is common cause that the reverend
is and will always be an ... [Inaudible.] part of the ANC. The
High Level Panel, HPL, report proved what we had long
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contended that those intelligence agencies notable the State
Security Agency, SSA, were bidding of factional of the ANC.
The reverend’s knowledge of the Thabo Mbeki era is vast, but
it is of that era. In the past decades as the DG in the
Presidency he worked in the periphery of the security sector
and this came across very clearly in his interview. He
believed that there are things of the office of the Inspector-
General of Intelligence, IGI, he can’t achieve when, in fact,
they are far outside of his mandates. In his interview he said
that he believes the gaps of the law will be filled by the
position of the IGI. The laws are handled by Parliament and
he’s looking to restructuring intelligence to all the acting
positions the IGI has no role to play there. He believes he
should fix his issues, but that’s not the job of the IGI, it’s
the job of the Minister, the DG and the politicians.
He says what was created at the dawn of democracy is then ...
[Inaudible.] but he was there for a decade on the ANC top
structures watching it happened. Grace and elder status do not
necessarily equal the ability to deal decisively with people
that have looted hundreds of millions of rand as all laid out
in technical detail during the Zondo Commission. We are not
talking about people who will be impressed by someone who
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simply expect them to do the right thing. They have already
done the wrong thing repeatedly and got away with it. The
reverend is not the person to do this job. Therefore, the
Democratic Alliance will vote against this proposal.
[Applause.]
Dr M Q NDLOZI: Thank you, hon House Chairperson. The EFF
fundamentally rejects the recommendation that Frank Chikane
must be the IGI. This is one of the most embarrassing
proposals coming from the benches of the ANC indicating a
serious crippling of their psychology because this recycling
is a demonstration of the greatest cognitive dissonance there
ever was. A 71-year-old in a pool of talent across the country
that must be reinserted at the highest level of constitutional
structures is a statement of no-confidence on the youth, is a
statement of no-confidence generally in the country. However,
is a reflection that the ANC has run out of talent. Chikane
was the worst performing candidate in the interviews.
However, let us go to the basic issue which is being forwarded
in relation to its candidature that is his integrity. We are
of the opinion that he’s got an inconsistent morality and
ethical practice demonstrated number one, by his utter silence
in 2001 when President Mbeki abused the intelligence services
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to try and investigate three of the veterans of the ANC
supposedly plotting to harm him and oust him. This was on the
eve of the 2002 conference of the ANC. It was obvious that
President Mbeki was in abused of these structures. Chikane was
silent and did nothing. He admitted to being asked to run for
this position by ANC leaders. However, when he was asked to
declare who these leaders are he was not ethical enough to
declare that I was asked by so and so to stand for this
position. He knows little if not nothing about the current
environment of the intelligence services indicated by his
proposals in relation to the amendment of laws into the fixing
of structures that have nothing to do with the constitutional
and legislative mandate of the IGI.
Chikane is also steeped in nongovernment organisations, NGOs,
that are compromised, that are infiltrated by intelligence
structures. However, above all to show this ethical
inconsistency he works with people in these NGOs who want to
fix South Africa’s democracy, but ironically are in support of
apartheid Israel. When he was teased on his questions Chikane
was obvious came out to be inconsistent contradictory in
relation to the consistency in relation to ethics. Therefore,
he does not have the ethical command and the integrity that
the ANC supposes that he does. However, on the eve of June 16
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to recommend the 71-year-old that has had his time is a
greatest statement of no-confidence in the youth and the
talent of this country.
I think that if Ntate Chikane still has any ounce of ethical
and integrity left within him he should literally just resign,
he should be unavailable, take a back seat, mentor and advice,
but not want to be part of an active government that he has
helped, that he has been part of and that he has been at its
highest positions to help go down. He’s part of the old guard
and he’s part of the people that we should not be hearing
their names to take important roles anymore.
The EFF rejects its candidature and we will not support it. In
fact, as you’ve had realised we opposed him in and outside the
committee deliberations. Therefore, this candidate will not
make it even today. He’s not going to get two-third majority
because he can’t be supported. He has no ethical consistency.
He has no technical knowledge of the intelligence services and
he’s the old guard. He’s infiltrated. He works in NGOs that
are infiltrated by international intelligence agencies and
he’s oblivious to that. We reject his candidature. Thank you
very much.
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Ink R N CEBEKHULU: Hon Chairperson, given the extremely
sensitive nature of the mandate and the information dealt with
by the State Security Agency, SSA, it is almost impossible for
absolute oversight of the intelligent services. This is
precisely why it is necessary to have an Inspector-General of
Intelligence who reports to the Joint Standing Committee on
Intelligence, JSCI, and the President as required by the
Constitution and in terms of the Intelligence Services
Oversight Act.
Chairperson, it is a fact that the JSCI will only be as strong
as the Inspector-General who reports to it. The position
requires an individual whose conduct and political
partisanship are beyond reproach. The fact that it has taken
this long to fill the position is worrisome. However, now that
it is filled the incumbent can take control of the monitoring
of intelligence and counter intelligence activities of the
State Security Agency and the intelligence divisions of the SA
Police Service and the national Defence Force.
The independence of the Office of the Inspector-General of
Intelligence, IGI, is paramount. Its human and capital
resources should have no link to the SSA, for example, all
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information technology, IT, hardware for the office is
currently sourced and provided by the SSA.
Chairperson, the incumbent, Rev Chikane, is a fit and proper
person with appropriate level of knowledge of the intelligence
services which will enable him to perform his oversight role
with all due diligence. His past role as an activist and
veteran struggle leader against the abolishing of apartheid as
well as being a committed member of the ANC, stand him in good
stead. But here is the caveat the only partisanship he can now
hold will be to the people of South Africa, the rule of law
and our constitutional democracy.
Chairperson, there is no doubt that Rev Chikane has a
challenging road ahead of him. Intelligence services are
operating at their lowest ebb. There is clear lack of
leadership and this will require competent oversight by an
individual with a prior knowledge of the intelligence services
realm to prepare. This is exactly what Rev Chikane brings to
the table. The IFP supports the nomination of Rev Chikane to
the position of Inspector-General of Intelligence. I thank
you, Chairperson.
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Mr W W WESSELS: House Chairperson, Voltaire said: “History
never repeats itself. Man always does.” The intelligence
structure was abused prior to 1994 - terribly. Then during the
Mbeki era, it was also abused. During the last nine years, it
was also abused. It is each of our responsibility to prevent
the mistakes from reoccurring. The member from the ANC is
correct that the IGI should be impartial and thus the FF Plus
cannot support this appointment. I thank you.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: House Chair, the Office of the Inspector-
General of Intelligence is very important as it monitors all
operations of the intelligence services of South Africa which
include the State Security Agencies and so on. Its function is
primarily important as it seeks to look at complaints from the
public as well as the abuses of the Constitution and the
intelligence laws by intelligent services.
For the longest period, especially in the past 20 years, the
intelligence services of South Africa have been abused and
used to advance he factional causes and battles of the ANC. We
want to state that it is our view that the state Security
Services is not there in order for it to be used by the
dominating faction of the ruling party, but rather to serve
the state and the people of South Africa.
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Yes, we have reservations and concerns about the fact that a
younger perhaps more energetic person could have been chosen,
but we are of the view that Rev Frank Chikane is a man of
integrity who will be able to discharge his responsibilities
in this new assignment with distinction. We support the report
and the nomination. Thank you, Chair.
Mr V ZUNGULA: Chair, can I sit down as I am still to talk this
month. It is hardly five minutes from concluding a youth
debate. A 71-year-old who have been in government since the
90s is proposed to be appointed as an Inspector-General of
Intelligence. This shows how the ruling party talks left and
walks right. We can’t keep recycling the same people over and
over again whereas we have a have a big pool of young talent
and expertise in our country. This position requires a person
who does not have baggage and who does not have ties with the
ruling party. We reject this proposal. Thank you.
Mr B N HERRON: House Chair, we support the nomination. Thank
you.
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon House
Chairperson, I stand here in support of the report on the
Standing Committee on Intelligence for the nomination of Rev
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Frank Chikane to be the Inspector-General of Intelligence. We
also wish that the hon members of this House, who represent
the people of South Africa through their political parties
will support this noble nomination of a loyal South African to
the position of the Inspector-General.
Hon House Chairperson, the matter of security is critical for
the socioeconomic development of our country. In the recent
past, our country has experienced some instabilities that have
to put the question of capacity and ability to the state to
ensure stability.
In addition to this, the President has appointed the High
Level Review Panel on state security. Amongst other things the
High Level Review Panel was tasked with the objective of
enabling the reconstruction of the professional national
intelligence capacity for South Africa that will respect and
uphold the Constitution and the relevant legislative
prescripts.
Amongst the recommendation of the High Level Review Panel is
an urgent measure to be put in place to ensure compliance by
the intelligence services with the White Paper and the
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legislative prescripts on intelligence co-ordination with
consequences of noncompliance.
Furthermore, the expert panel on the July unrests, also
emphasised the observation made by the High Level Review Panel
Report. The expert panel emphasised on the central role of the
National Intelligence Co-ordinating Committee, Nicoc, in
strategic intelligence co-ordination.
When the Joint Standing Co-ordination on Intelligence
conducted its process of identifying a suitable candidate to
be nominated for a position of the Inspector-General we were
informed by the High Level Panel Report.
Rev Frank Chikane is still a South African, whose commitment
and loyalty to our nation is without question. Rev Chikane is
a patriot who paid a price of our freedom like many of our
compatriots. He brings a wealth of knowledge and experience in
the public service having served as a Director-General in the
Office of former President Thabo Mbeki and being the Secretary
of Cabinet.
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And, in his capacity, he also had a responsibility to lead the
Forum of SA Director-General. This means that co-ordination
has been central to Rev Frank Chikane’s work in the state.
His experience in negotiations, conflict resolution, mediation
and peace-making put him in good stead to steer the
intelligence services of our country in the right direction.
Our country and its people need to be safe and secure. The
safety of our people, the integrity of our state and the
defence of our territory are what define nationhood.
We have confidence in Rev Frank Chikane and we know, he will
not disappoint us. Hon House Chairperson, I want to say that
age is nothing, but just a number. Hon House Chairperson the
position of the Inspector-General cannot be given to a young
person because if you do that the country will ...
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order hon members!
Order!
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The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORRITY PARTY: If that position
is given to a young person, the country will be sold for 15
cents in the next minute.
Hon House Chairperson, the opposition of the appointment of
Rev Chikane ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order hon members!
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION PARTY: ... is an
opposition to ethical conduct! It is an opposition to
experience, impartiality, loyalty and commitment!
Rev Chikane, is one person who is not afraid to challenge
authority. If he believes that what you are doing is wrong, he
will challenge you for that. Yes, he did say that he was
encouraged by the elders who are vocal about some of us in the
ANC about the leaders of the ANC who are doing wrong! They are
vocal to point out that this is wrong. There is nothing wrong
with a person who is well-known by civil society! There is
nothing wrong about that! There is no one in this planet
Earth, whom you will find not to be associated with anything
or anyone! There is no such thing!
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So, your opposition to his appointment, you are opposing a
person who is loyal to South Africa and not to the party!
Rev Chikane is I may tell you about him, he excelled in the
interviews! Everyone who was watching knows that! We have no
doubt! He has experience, he has loyalty to the country! His
loyalty is to the country and not to the ANC!
So, as the ANC, we support the nomination of Rev Frank Chikane
as the Inspector-General of Intelligence!
So, the opposition parties, your opposing to this is because
of your hatred and you do not want honest people to serve this
country. He is a man of the cloth, loyal to South Africa and
not individuals! Hon House Chairperson, I thank you.
Question put: That the nomination of Rev F Chikane for
appointment as Inspector-General of Intelligence be approved.
Division demanded.
The House divided.
THE DETERMINATION OF THE SPEAKER
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(Announcement)
House Chairperson Mr C T Frolick announced that the Speaker
had determined that, in accordance with the rules, a manual
voting procedure would be used and that the whips would
conduct a headcount of members in the chamber and on the
virtual platform for the purpose of ascertaining quorum and
voting.
A quorum being present in terms of Rule 98(1), voting
commenced.
AYES – 232: (ANC – 218; IFP – 10; UDM – 1; Good – 2; AIC – 1).
NOES – 113: (DA – 73; EFF – 29; FF Plus – 8; ACDP – 3).
The majority required in terms of section 7(1) of the
Intelligence Services Oversight Act 40 of 1994 not obtained.
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon House
Chairperson, as a leader in my own right, I want to humbly,
apologise to the youth of this country, because when you are
standing here on the podium debating something that is very
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critical to the country, you end up saying things that you do
not mean. [Applause.]
I want to withdraw what I said in my speech that if the
position is given to a young person, the country will be sold
for 15 cents. I withdraw that statement and regret what I have
said. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
IsiZulu:
Nks N P SONTI: Uyakhula! Uyakhula!
CONSIDERATION OF SECOND REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TRADE
AND INDUSTRY ON REQUEST BY MINISTER OF TRADE, INDUSTRY AND
COMPETITION TO RECOMMEND SUITABLE CANDIDATES FOR APPOINTMENT
AS CHAIRPERSON OF BOARD OF NATIONAL LOTTERIES COMMISSION
Ms J HERMANS: Thank you very much, House Chair. In terms of
section 3 of the Lotteries Act the member contemplated in
section 3 1(a) of the Act, the chairperson, shall be appointed
only after the Minister of Trade, Industry and Competition,
amongst others, and the relevant committee of the National
Assembly has made the recommendations to the Minister in
relation thereto after a transparent and open process of
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considering person so nominated having due regard to the
functions of the board.
The Minister has done that in November 2020 when he submitted
a request to the National Assembly for a recommendation on
suitable candidates for the appointment of the chairperson of
the National Lotteries Commission, NLC. In his initial request
he submitted a short list of names of candidates for the
committee’s consideration. However, as the committee takes its
oversight responsibilities seriously over the department and
its entities, he sorts guidance on whether it was the
prerogative of the Minister to submit a shortlist of names to
the committee for consideration, or whether the Ministers
required to submit all names submitted by the public to the
National Assembly and for the committee to determine a
shortlist of candidates so nominated to be interviewed by the
committee.
After receiving the necessary legal guidance, that it was the
prerogative of the committee to shortlist candidates to be
interviewed, it requested that the Minister submits all the
curriculum vitae of all candidates, which he duly complied
with. The committee duly proceeded to shortlist candidates to
be interviewed for the position of chairperson of the board of
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the National Lotteries Commission. These interviews were held
on 09 March 2021, with the committee submitting its Report on
the recommendation to the Minister of names of suitable
candidates for his consideration.
The committee adopted its initial Report on the 12 March 2021.
However, in terms of National Assembly Rule 35(1) the Report
lapsed on the last sitting day of the National Assembly for
the 2021 annual session. We were also subsequently informed
that one of the candidates for consideration had unfortunately
passed away. The National Assembly revived the Report on the
22 March 2022 and referred it back to the committee for
consideration and report.
In light of the above, the committee resolved to add the names
of Reverend Frank Chikane and Mr T Dlamini to the list, add to
the list already submitted to Parliament and to submit it to
the National Assembly for consideration. I thank you, Chair.
Thank you.
Declarations of vote:
Mr M J CUTHBERT: Thank you very much, House Chair. Hon House
Chairperson, the Democratic Alliance has been fighting with
Parliament to get the first iteration of this Report to be
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considered since it was on Announcements, Tabling and
Committee, ACT, report on 17 March 2021. The second iteration
comes almost one year and three months later. The former board
chairperson, fake professor and prolific looter, Alfred
Nevhutanda’s term ended on 30 November 2020.
This means that a scandal ridden entity like the National
Lotteries Commission, NLC, has been without leadership for
almost one year and six months. For the sake of accuracy, let
us look at how the African National Congress and its
incapacitated deployees in ministerial office has derailed
this process. It starts off with Minister Patel contravening
the legislation which guards this process in late 2020 by
putting forward the names of three candidates to the portfolio
committee to consider, instead, the legal advice sought at the
time by the DA and Parliament stated that the committee was to
undertake the process of selecting 3 candidates and then
recommending them to the Minister.
It should be noted that this left the ANC members in the
portfolio committee in a total state of disarray. Moving on,
the portfolio committee then decided that the process should
rightly be guarded by the legislation and the series of
meetings were held to determine the interview criteria as well
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as the shortlisting. Despite the DA having appealed to the
committee that it should carefully consider our crafted
recommendations it put forward to ensure that they didn’t get
another dud for it all, Chairperson, the ANC using its
parliamentary majority, rejected them in their entirety.
In addition, the DA argued that we should attempt to conclude
the interview process and the shortlisting of candidates by
the end of December 2020. However, the ANC opted for the beach
towels and their flip flops instead. In the intervening period
Minister Patel attempted to appoint his ministerial appointee
to the board, Ms Zandile Brown, as the acting chairperson of
the National Lotteries Commission. The DA objected to this in
the National Lotteries Commission board took her to court and
it got set aside.
Eventually in February 2021, the process to shortlist,
interview and select three candidates for referral to the
Minister began. We agreed as the committee to interview six
candidates of which three would be referred to the Minister.
The interviews despite having been long and arduous, went off
without a hitch until we got to the toss of deciding upon
three names that would be sent to the Minister. The DA argued
that the three high scoring candidates should be submitted.
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However, we had a concern with the late Dr Muthuhadini
Madzivhandila, who has not only served on the board as the
Chairperson of Human Capital, Social and Ethics, while the
industrial scale looting of the National Lotteries Commission
has taken place, but the outer organisation flagged him for
having had a conflict of interest as a grant beneficiary,
which he failed to disclose. We raised this as a reason for
his exclusion from the list of three to be submitted to the
Minister, but the ANC in the infinite wisdom, decided to
proceed.
To cut a long story short, he decided to take me to court to
defamation, siting at my exposure of his life, it means that
his partner would potentially not marry him and his children
were disappointed in him. After we found the replying
affidavit detailing how he lied to both the public and
Parliament his lawsuit conveniently went away. Fast forward to
today and we sit with a report that only partly reflects the
will of the committee.
As stated earlier, we agreed to submit the three names on the
basis of scoring and rightfully Mr Tselane, Mr Dlamini and
Doctor Pityana should be on that list but not Mr Chikane, who
you are trying to recycle as cadre. I suppose this explains
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why this matter was brought before the ANC Cadre Deployment
Committee on 09 November 2020 as revealed at the Zondo
Commission. A delay in the process run by the ANC can always
be attributed to one of two things; one, pure incompetence and
two, nefarious motives.
Thus far, the Special Investigating Unit has uncovered
R300 million worth of corruption in the 12 of the 50 cases it
has investigated. One can only imagine that this will run into
the billions once the Special Investigating Unit have
concluded their work. The fact of the matter is that the ANC
closely ... [Inaudible.] ... while the monies meant for
grannies, the sick and marginalised communities were stolen.
And that’s the truth. I thank you.
Ms Y N YAKO: House Chairperson, from the onset as the EFF we
must say that the National Lottery Commission, NLC
has...[Interjection.].
Mr A H M PAPO: On point of order, House Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon may you just take
your seat. Why are you rising hon Papo?
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Mr A H M PAPO: I am rising as a follow up to the request you
made to all of us. That in the House we should were mask.
MeMakhawula since she arrived in the House, she’s never worn a
mask.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon order, hon members
just wear your mask please. Hon Khawula, there’s no discussion
around this matter. Please wear your mask and it applies to
everyone, it applies to everyone. Please continue hon member.
Ms N Y YAKO: Thank you House Chairperson, I also take don’t
kindly to hon Cuthbert not being interrupted, but myself being
interrupted, I don’t think it’s ok. However, House Chair, we
must on the onset note that the NLC had no chairperson for
more than two years now. A vacuum the that has left the entity
with a hole that has never to be led to poor governance,
corruption and a leaderless institution.
In 2021 the committee deliberated extensively on how many
names before they took consideration. Based on scoring and the
quality of the interview, it was decided, it will be three
names. Now, that is not the premise of where we come from. We
are coming from the premise that we took this initiative of
starting to appoint and to nominate the chairperson of the
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board, the person whose is going to be the Chairperson for the
NOC, at a very long age in 2020 and here we are now.
And for me its’s disappointing that we have to sit and
deliberate on names, while we should be sitting and
deliberating on the quality of leadership that we want in the
NLC.
For starters, when we first initiated, it was decided that the
Minister, will then be the one appointing the shortlist for
the candidates to go to the NLC and we disputed as the EFF.
And, we wrote to the Speaker to say no it can’t be. The
committee should be the one to facilitate the process of
nomination. And, thus hence where we are now.
We went through a very transparent process in 2021, and ended
up with three names which we agreed as a committee and those
names were: Mr Tselane, Dr Madibandlela and Mr T Dlamini. And
we must remember that the consensus that we met the ACDP,
because it was the ACDP who came with the name of Rev Pityana
or Dr Pityana and the only reason why as a committee we
decided to go with that name was because there’s only one more
score difference between the third and the fourth person. And
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hence we decided, no it’s okay, as a committee we will make a
consensus and we say it’s okay, we include a fourth name.
Now, it’s very surprising that in the later stages, when Dr
Madibandlela is late and we need to nominate three people,
which initially, as a committee we decided on. We then ...
[Inaudible.] ... on that and we say one fourth name and it’s
even more disappointing that the fourth name is that of Rev
Chikane.
And, it is not personal, but it is a fact that when we were
... during the interviews, Rev Chikane arrived in a meeting,
arrived in his interview, looking very lacklustre, he looked
bored, he looked like he was forced to do the interview. He
was not interested; he was very condescending and that is the
reason why he scored less than even the fourth person on the
list for the nomination of the NLC. And that the basis of why
we feel that he was actually asked to go to that interview.
And it also informs the reason why the ANC now has come in the
back foot and decided that now they want to include him as a
fourth name.
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We must state that we as the EFF, are not behind that. We
reject his name; we reject the ... [Inaudible.] ... it
deserves [Applause.]
What the ANC is doing now, it seeks to undermine the law and
to undermine our oversight as the committee and appoint Rev
Chikane without due process. It seeks to rubberstamp some
misguided and corrupt attempt to impose this person as a
Chairperson of National Lottery Commission.
The EFF wrote to the Speaker of the National Assembly to
demand that there should be an explanation as to why Rev
Chikane’s name is irregularly led and added to the list. It
was the EFF that added and provided key guidance and
leadership on this matter, when the ANC wanted to take short
cuts in the first place, using Minister Patel. It was the EFF
that insisted a transparent process of the interviews. It is
the EFF that will make sure that due process is followed. The
EFF supports the name of Mr T Tselane, Mr T Dlamini and Dr
Pityana. We do not support the name of Frank Chikane and his
name must be removed from the Report to the President. Thank
you [Applause.]
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Ink R N CEBEKHULU: House Chairperson, the National Lottery
Commission has a critical function as a national regulator to
lotteries and sports pools. The commission is mandated to
ensure that all are lotteries are connected with transparency,
due propriety and importantly it must ensure that all
participants are adequately protected.
It therefore vital that the Chairperson who lead in this
commission must lead with integrity and ensure the commission
fulfils its mandate, especially as the commission as grant
funder, is mandated to enrich the lives of poor South
Africans.
The NLC, however has been plagued by serious allegations of
corruption ... [Inaudible.] ... to Parliament in March this
year. It has been revealed that a former board member received
over R5,4 million in his personal account from various non-
profit organizations.
Approximately allegations relating to ... [Inaudible.] ...
unqualified beneficiaries and by this shocking revelations and
we will closely monitor the Special Investigating Unit, SIU’s
progress on phase two of the investigation.
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On consideration of the Report by the portfolio committee, the
IFP believes that due process was followed by the committee in
monitoring candidates, for the position of the Chairperson of
the Board of the NLC. Recommendations were made on suitable
candidates for the Chairperson of the Board of the NLC.
And, it is unfortunate that the initial report of the
committee lapsed on the last sitting day of the National
Assembly for the year 2021 annual session.
The Report of the committee was however revived in March 2022
[Interjection.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, please
switch off your microphone, hon Muthambi. Continue hon
Cebekhulu.
Ink R N CEBEKHULU: Thank you, it was revived in March 2022,
and the IFP supports the committee’s recommendation.
In conclusion, the IFP accepts the committee’s Report, but we
however remain highly concern about the leadership and
stability of the NLC. We remain resolute that former members
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who have grossly abuse the NLC funds and enrich themselves
must be prosecuted. The IFP accepts the Report. Thank you.
Mr F J MULDER: House Chair, hon members, the National Lottery
Commission, is the only national regulator of lotteries and
sports pools in South Africa. The National Lottery Board is
mandated to guarantee that the interests of all parties ...
[Inaudible.] ... in lotteries are protected. And ensure that
all lotteries are conducted in due propriety.
House Chair regardless ... [Inaudible.] ... controls, the
Former Chairperson of the National Lottery Board, Prof Alfred
Nevhutanda refused to resign after he has been involved
controversy of the National Lottery Commission was involved by
ongoing reports of corruption, nepotism and maladministration.
The Chair of the Commission whose term was due to expire in
November 2020, was extended for another year by hon Minister
Patel after the showdown when the hon Minister announced
settlement with Prof Nevhutanda.
House Chair, the Special Investigating Unit, recently revealed
that as we heard, before the portfolio committee that the
officials of the National Lottery Commission allegedly
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misappropriated state funds due to their own value in several
occasions ... [Inaudible.] ... an amount of R300 million
during their term of office.
Until recently the National Lotteries Board enjoyed the
protection of the ANC- dominated portfolio committee before
hon Minister Patel lost his patience and intervene by
dissolving the board before its expiring date, at the end of
March 2022.
House Chair, the Report of the Committee lapsed from the last
sitting day of the National Assembly, last year 2021 and had
to be revived again.
Has the ANC committee learnt any lessons from mistakes of the
past ... [Inaudible.] ... hon House Chair, request for the
ANC-led majority of the committee to add a name of Rev
Chikane, the less should be rejected. The previous Chair, Pro
Nevhutanda was appointed as a NLC Board Chairperson in 2009
under the presidency of Jacob Zuma. He was also a former
Chairperson of the ANC in Limpopo and was one of the key fund
raisers for the ANC’s 2009 election campaign in Limpopo.
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The FF Plus voted against the adoption of the Report in the
committee and will do so today. Hon House Chair, the mere
continuation of the ANC cadre deployment should stop. Thank
you House Chair.
Mr S H MBUYANE: Thank you very much, Chair of Chairs,
leadership, Comrades, the second Report on Portfolio Committee
on Trade and Industry, the ANC vision of the South African
economy is guided by the Freedom Charter in particular the
injunction that the people shall share in the country’s
wealth. This informs the ANC commitment to managing the South
African economy, not only in the manner that is growing,
enhancing but ensure that the pace and pattern of growth is
inclusive and transform our society. We have made sufficient
and advanced to transform the lives of our people through
amongst other things the access to water, housing and
sanitation. Many of these advances have been made by
government and private sector.
The National Lotteries Commission, NLC, has over the years
granted communities the ability to take up the ownership and
own community issues find practical solutions to them without
wanting the hand of government. Consequently, many communities
have benefited directly and indirectly from the web and the
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support of the NLC. This is what the national democratic
revolution calls for and our community to be active citizens
and take responsibility for their own lives and future.
Since the dawn of the COVID-19 pandemic on our shores that
resulted in a lockdown which pushed the nation and global
community with a new economic reality. The ... [Inaudible.]
nation and graphene with efforts to bring economic back to
track while balancing risk and patience pandemic. The obvious
domino effect on organisation such as the National Lottery
Commission are an increase demand for funding as sources of
relief dry up. As a result, the stability of the NLC becomes
ever more important. The NLC has been instrumental in
alleviating the negative effect of pandemic in a poor
household and poverty Western since the beginning of the
pandemic and the NLC was there to provide the necessary
support needed and the most vulnerable in our society.
Therefore, the National Lotteries Commission beside overseeing
lotteries, it plays a critical role in socioeconomic
transformation programme in our society.
We are also witnessing the human and developmental role the
NLC is playing in the aftermath of the flood in KZN, Eastern
Cape and North West. This has enhanced the ability of
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government to provide the necessary relief needed by those who
are affected by the floods. It is disheartening and people of
South Africa must know that some of us, in this House, do not
want the NLC to be fully functional so it could optimally
support the work of the ANC-led government to transform the
society in the interest of the South Africa. The wish of
everything to fall apart so that they can govern the ashes of
our country. As the ANC congress, we will never allow this. We
have a history and revolutionary tasks to transform society
and create a better life for all, particularly the poor and
the working class.
The NLC Board has been without a permanent Board since
November 2020. When a term of the previous Chairperson came to
an end the position has not been filled since. The ANC
welcomes the recommendation made by the suitable candidate to
the National Lotteries Commission for the appointment of the
Chairperson. We believe the recommendations have been
necessary skilled and also the expertise and experience to
take the NLC to a new and a greater height as we construct our
economic and reconstruction which is inclusive and
developmental.
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We wish to make an unequivocally clear that the ANC is fully
in support of the work of the Special Investigating Unit as it
relates to exposing and rooting out corruption in the NLC.
Corruption is a serious cancer in our society and is
destroying the moral fight of our society. We are not
constructing our economy because ... [Interjections.]
Mr B A RADEBE (Point of order): I am rising on Rule 84, Mr
Cuthbert has said hon Mbuyane is lying. Its unparliamentarily
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Cuthbert, I heard
that remark. You must withdraw it.
Mr M J CUTHBERT: Chair, I didn’t say he was lying I said he’s
last, but I will withdraw for the sake of progress.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you, please
continue member.
Mr S H MBUYANE: No, hon Cuthbert. We call on the SIU to ensure
that they recover every money that is lost in corruption and
hold the perpetrator accountable. In the ANC, we expect the
new Board to exhibit high moral ethics, and for they must know
that they serve the people of South Africa and not serving
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themselves. The people of South Africa are placing their trust
in them to contribute towards tackling the triple challenge of
poverty, unemployment and inequality. In the African National
Congress, we therefore support the Report and recommending
candidates to the position of the Board.
Chairperson, I think I have to address hon Cuthbert in this
regard because coming here with that hon of EFF and claiming
“we, the EFF we’re the only ones that corrected the committee,
we the DA we’re the ones who corrected the committee.” This
policy and this government is the government of the ANC. If
you want to correct or mandate anything you have to go outside
there, win elections and come back and instruct us what to do.
[Interjectons.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members!
Mr K CEZA: We’ll collapse you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Hon Ceza! Hon member,
will you just take your seat. Hon members, no, no! Hon
Cuthbert!
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UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER: This is the government of the people not
the government of the ANC.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Who recognised you?
Who recognised you, hon member? You can’t just grab the
microphone and start making interjections. I will ask the
Whips of the EFF to please explain to the hon member that they
must be recognised. The same applies to the hon Cuthbert, you
must be recognised hon member. Maybe you must go back to the
basics in terms of the Rules. Also the members on the platform
- hon Ceza, you can’t just switch on your microphone. You
can’t do that. Hon member, complete your speech. Please
continue.
Mr S H MBUYANE: Thank you very much, Chair. As I was saying
they must go and win elections before they come and instruct.
[Interjections.] What you can do now we will be appointing the
Board, the chairperson of the Board of the NLC and we are
supporting the NLC to move and change the pillars of the
situation because now we have people that are starving
outside, the NGOs are looking for people to get something to
help and now we want to strong the position of the NLC. Now we
are saying we are taking forward this position and we are
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moving with or without you – are going to make it. Today, it’s
our day. [Applause.] Viva!
The CHIEF OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: What are you saying, Sonti,
the government of the people, for the people, by the people.
[Laughter.] Thank you very much, hon House Chair, I move that
the Report be adopted. Thank you.
Question put.
Objections noted.
Motion agreed to.
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Please note the objection of the recycled
pensioner.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, I don’t
have a clue what you are talking about. What is your
objection?
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: We are objecting to the Report.
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you. There are
no further objections and the report is thus agreed to. Hon
members I will now suspend the proceedings until 2:pm and wish
to remind members that we will continue with the debate. As
urgent matter of national importance in the name of hon
Mileham on Fuel price hikes at 14:00 this afternoon the House
will be rung to alert members to the resumption of business
and business is now suspended.
There was no debate.
Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic
Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Inkatha Freedom Party,
Freedom Front Plus, African Christian Democratic Party and
African National Congress.
The Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be
adopted.
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom
Fighters, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic
Party dissenting)
Report accordingly adopted.
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BUSINESS SUSPENDED AT 12:50 AND RESUMED AT 14:00.
FUEL PRICE HIKES
(Matter of Public Importance)
Mr K J MILEHAM: Deputy Speaker, today, the people of South
Africa are watching us closely. We are here with the sole
purpose to slash fuel prices. That is what the people of South
Africa demand, and that is what this Parliament must do. We
are not here today to hear excuses about the global
conditions, Russia’s unprovoked invasion of Ukraine,
government mistakes or ANC spin. We are here to slash fuel
prices, based on what government can do. The only question we
have to ask is – and what we have to ask to the ANC is, are
you here today to slash fuel prices too?
Allow me to quote something you may recognize:
The ill-considered and uncaring decision to increase the
petrol price only confirms that the government does not
have the interests of the majority of South Africans, who
are poor and struggling desperately to make ends meet, at
heart.
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This statement was issued by the ANC in September 1993,
against the evil apartheid government. Today, the ANC
government is guilty of exactly the same thing. So I ask
again, are you here today to slash fuel prices, as South
Africa is demanding that you do?
Let’s start with a few facts. Our government adds more than a
third on to the basic fuel price in the form of taxes and
levies. The ANC government do this, to quote Tim Cohen in
Daily Maverick, because fuel taxes are “difficult to avoid and
easy to collect.” These taxes include a R3,93 per litre
general fuel levy and a R21,8 per litre Road Accident Fund
levy. Difficult to Avoid, and Easy to Collect. Essentially for
the ANC government, road users are easy prey to tax hard, and
tax often. But South Africa has reached the end of its tether
with this daylight robbery.
Yesterday, the DA handed over a petition to the Minister of
Finance and the Minister of Energy, calling on them to
implement the proposals that the DA has been putting forward
to address the sky-rocketing fuel price. Our petition garnered
more than 130 000 signatures and comments online, making it
one of the largest ever submitted to Parliament. Signatories
had the chance to leave personal messages, as they pledged
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their support for this debate, and for the demand to slash
fuel prices. Just a few comments illustrate the general
sentiment. Dean Boy said:
Let’s stop the fuel tax rip-off. It is time for
government to cut the exorbitant taxes on fuel in order
to lower the price. People are suffering due to the costs
of living.
Yezdi Phiroz stated:
Government must stop burdening the fuel prices with their
taxes.
Sello Kumako, noted:
The ANC government must cut the exorbitant taxes on fuel.
If not, the poorest will suffer more on food and other
basic materials.
So the DA, hereby formally table our simple, practical and
implementable proposals to slash fuel prices. For starters,
let’s get rid of the R3,93 per litre general fuel levy,
because it has nothing to do with fuel. It is just “difficult
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to avoid, and easy to collect.” That money goes straight into
the Treasury and adds about R90 billion to the big pot of
money that funds corruption and mismanagement. If we scrap
that, government will be forced to be more frugal in their
expenditure.
Perhaps we can get rid of R22 million flagpoles, R350 million
donations to Cuba, inflated contracts, captured entities, a
bloated Cabinet, expensive Ministers and deputies, and all
other unnecessary and frivolous expenses. Maybe we can cut out
the R1,8 billion spent on VIP protection for Ministers who are
driven around in fancy vehicles at taxpayer expense and don’t
feel the effects of a fuel price increase.
It is estimated that this government loses R300 billion a year
to corruption. That amount can cover the R90 billion collected
annually from the general fuel levy, more than three times
over. The second thing we must do is reform the Road Accident
Fund levy. The RAF is a cesspool of mismanagement, and every
litre of fuel purchased is paying for that.
Our demand is that the R2,18 RAF levy be cut, for all road
users who can prove that they have a valid, comprehensive
third-party insurance. Stop forcing them to pay for insurance
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twice. Instead, give them a tax rebate through SARS, claimable
on their annual tax returns on their fuel purchases. These two
steps would cut R6,11 per litre.
But the DA’s comprehensive plan demand doesn’t end there. The
third thing we must do is to deregulate our fuel sector. Maybe
another quote from the ANC’s own mouth will help:
Government intends to move away from price control on
fuel with the achievement of suitable transitional
milestones and arrangements. Control of industry margins,
at wholesale and retail level will be removed and
thereafter will be determined on a competitive and
commercial basis.
This one comes from the 1998 White Paper on Energy, under this
ANC government, 24 years ago. If the ANC fails to implement
this - as it has – we will do it for them. The DA will shortly
be introducing a Private Member’s Bill to amend section 2 of
the Petroleum Products Act. Now the purpose of this Bill is to
deregulate the fuel sector to increase competition, both at
wholesale and retail level. Let fuel retailers and fuel
stations compete on price, subject only to a maximum regulated
price, and thereby driving prices down. And before anyone
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suggests that this is going to result in job losses for pump
attendants, please note that we are not proposing amending
that section of the Act which prohibits self-service retail
outlets.
Deputy Speaker, this debate is not a DA fight, but the fight
of every South African. The DA is proud to announce that we
have the support of key role-players from various sectors in
our proposals; they are long distance freight and logistics
providers, truckers, a number of individual truck owners and
fleet truck operators, the touring and transfer bus sector,
aviation entities, the intercity bus sector; and the taxi
industry.
Failing to act on our proposals will be a slap in all of their
faces. That is why we call on all political parties
represented here to join these sectors, which form the
foundation of our economy, and the more than 130 000 people
who have signed our petition, to support our proposals to
reduce the price. Let’s stop feeding the beast of ANC
corruption with unaffordable fuel taxes. Slash fuel prices
now! Thank you, Chair.
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Mr S LUZIPO: Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker, the ANC
government, I am not sure whether I should say the ANC
government, because I was told that it is the government of
the people, which means, the government of the ANC is the
government of the people. The ANC government is faced with
daunting challenges, complex, or at the same time, very much
demanding, in dealing with the current on-price shock.
Therefore, the debate on fuel price hike, is certainly
important, not because the hon member, Milleham, has called
for it, but due to its importance for the poor motorists, the
households, as well as mall enterprises who face serious
hardship in the daily increasing costs during this difficult
period. I must say, hon Deputy Speaker, it is important just
to borrow from Thomas Sowell, a liberal American economist who
says, I quote, “politics is the art of making your selfish
desired seemed to be national interest.”
It is quite important that, when we deal with the sensitive
matter in a serious matter of this nature, we also try and not
use it as a matter of a political football. But thanks to hon
Milleham, because I believe it is genuine what you have
presented to the House. Hon Deputy Speaker, it is very
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important that, when we deal with this, we start from the
premise that, I’m not sure whether we are not offside.
The Committee on Mineral Resources and Energy started engaging
on this matter as early as April 14 2021 on a briefing by the
Auto Mobile Association of SA, as well as the Department of
Mineral Resources and Energy, having done consultation with
most of the stakeholders, informed by the fact that, by virtue
of being Members of Parliament, it does not grant us an
authority of possessing natural wisdom to the challenges
facing our communities and our people.
It is those basis, therefore, that we wanted to ensure that,
every process that we go through, it is a process that is
consultative enough that stakeholders will be able to make
ownership of. It was therefore, a report adopted on 10 April.
As early as 7 June, the committee started to work on action
plans, including consultation and meetings with the Portfolio
Committee on Finance, simply because, the issue of fuel prices
must be understood in the context that, it has got overlapping
mandates. It affects transport, it is also based on tax
determination by the National Treasury.
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So, I think that it is important that we start from that
point. I must use this platform for a good and a necessary
lobbying, that will require that the reports of the portfolio
committee by the National Association of Primary Care, NAPC,
be prioritised, so that it can find its way through to this
House, including its observations and recommendations, be
debated as a platform that I would say, it addresses the need
for every party to feel that it has made its contribution.
I think that is the first point that one would like to start
on. But, one of the things that for me is important is that,
the issue of the petrol hikes cannot be associated with one
solution. Otherwise, ...
IsiXhosa:
... siya kuba sidliswa uzifo-zonke.
English:
So, it’s important to understand that there are many solutions
that can be found, and amongst those, the portfolio committee
has made particular recommendations, and I don’t think that
they are far from most of us may agree. One of those is
moving, rather than scrapping the Road Accident Fund, RAF,
from the fuel price, either like what the Minister of Finance
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has said, that it should form part of social security or form
part of social insurance, or it be moved to the Department of
Transport. We need to review the 15% premium on freight which
was introduced to fuel price to minimise the risk that was
made by the apartheid government.
Thirdly, increasing the import share of oil and petroleum
products from other African countries in order to minimise
shipping costs, implementing those recommendations, will
therefore allow South Africans from all walk of life to feel
that they are able to mitigate against the fuel hikes. Hon
Deputy Speaker, we must deal with the issue of fuel hikes as a
collective, not spontaneously, for an example, what hon
Milleham has proposed as measures that the ANC government
should implement to reduce the burden of fuel hikes for
consumers.
Since he is convinced that the ANC government is ...
[Inaudible.] ... it’s important also to note that, there are
many other alternative sources that can be considered
including, biomass fuel, which is something that the Centre
for Social Science Research, CSSR, has also raised as a point
for consideration. Hon Deputy Speaker, the all industry is a
capital intensive low margin industry risen by high volume
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sales for economies of scale in our country, whose market
demand is equivalent to the Los Angeles areas.
It is not possible to deregulate the market and ensure
competition in the normal sense as is the case, with large
volume economies like the USA. Therefore, it is important
that, when we make such consideration, we must be able to
ensure that we carry all that is necessary. Lastly on this
matter, Deputy Speaker, we request that the two Ministers, who
is Finance and Mineral Resources and Energy, expedite the
investment in refining, as it positively contributes to
beneficiation and manufacture, but also with the effect of
reducing the impact of the balance of payment in dollar terms
for our country.
I think that it is important to make this last point that, we
can’t have the one size fits all. The issue of fuel and petrol
hikes is a complex matter. By the way, if you look in terms of
integrated energy plan, amongst other issues, in order to
build productive sectors of the economy, is the new
developments, in terms of electric vehicles. Any comprehensive
strategy that does not table new phenomenon on board, it is
flawed. It cannot be comprehensive, because what is new in the
auto industry, is that there are electric vehicles that by
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manufacturing, if we were to manufacture or assemble the
majority of them in South Africa, it will be something that is
not related to the fuel hikes.
Therefore, any comprehensive strategy must take that to the
longer period. Hon Deputy Speaker, we raised those issues.
Just one point again from Sowell, “It is hard to imagine a
more stupid or a more dangerous way of making decisions by
putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no
price for being wrong.” We’ve got a duty and a responsibility
that, we cannot make any mistake, because the people are
looking forward, from the leadership of the people’s movement.
Therefore, we take responsibility for failures, hence we must
avoid them now. Thank you very much.
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Thank you very much, Deputy
Speaker. When the DA removes the ANC from national government
in 2024, we will slash the petrol price by R6 per litre. We
will slash it by cutting fuel prices and fuel taxes and by
deregulating the fuel market. We will slash it because we
actually care about the people who are struggling to make ends
meet. The reality is that not every South African has a couple
of million dollars shoved under a couch at home that will
enable them to weather the coming winter of discontent. We
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care, unlike the hon Luzipo that workers can barely afford the
taxi fare to get to work, and those without work can’t afford
to go out and look for work.
Government petrol price increases have pushed the food prices
up dramatically all because they agree and because they now
need to understand that their tax is more important than the
food price to ordinary South Africans. They have also driven
up that cost because the rail system under the ANC has
collapsed entirely, which means that the majority of the food
in South Africa is transported by road and therefore goes up
when the petrol price goes up.
When the DA removes the ANC from national government in 2024,
we will slash fuel prices to bring down the cost of food. Yes,
hon Koornhof, you told us we were dreaming about Tshwane,
Johannesburg and Nelson Mandela Bay and every other
municipality where you have been kicked out of office. The DA
cares when parents and grandparents have to look into the eyes
of hungry children every night ... [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Can I rise on a point of
order. I need ... [Inaudible.] ... because I am sitting right
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here and I can’t hear. So, if you could you just ask the House
to have a little bit of a decorum.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: All of you, including in your ranks should
have some decorum. Go ahead, hon member.
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: The DA cares when parents and
grandparents have to look into the eyes of hungry children to
tell them that there is nothing for supper. The DA cares when
school children have to study on empty stomachs and when
millions are suffering from childhood stunting because of lack
of food. Honestly, hon Luzipo, your economic platitudes and
jargons mean absolutely nothing to those parents who cannot
put food on the table. We will do so because we care about
jobs and we understand that jobs come from a healthy economy
and businesses that are thriving and creating jobs. And they
are created when you reduce the input costs.
When the DA removes the ANC from national government in 2024,
we will slash fuel prices because we know, unlike the ANC,
that fuel prices affect the poorest of the poor the most. Poor
families spend the highest proportion of their salaries on
transport and food. Cutting fuel prices will lift millions out
of poverty. Fuel prices are high because government slapped on
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taxes. One third of the fuel price is taxes that go to
government. Taxes that pay for the incapable and corrupt
state. Six rand per litre is how much more our citizens are
paying for petrol more than countries like Botswana.
We have the same problems that the hon Luzipo outlined and
they don’t slap on the tax because they understand. We need to
recognise the urgency of the situation now. We need to slash
petrol prices now. And we can afford to do it. We can afford
to do it if we get tough on corruption – we can afford it. If
we end cadre deployment, we can afford it. If we slash the VIP
protection budget, we can afford it. If we close failed state-
owned entities, we can afford it. What the ANC can’t afford is
to keep on ripping off ordinary South Africans, because we are
gatvol [fed up] of having to pay the price for your
corruption. We also need a President in this country who has a
full-time focus on running the country, not one eye on his
business and one eye on his farm, but full time serving the
people of South Africa.
The billionaire President can afford to pack up and leave and
go anywhere. It’s ordinary South Africans who have no choice,
we have to make South Africa work. So, if you care about
anything at all on the government benches, cut the fuel price.
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Because if you don’t, I would advise you to look at what
happened to the Arab Spring. I would advise you to see what is
happening right now in Sri Lanka. [Interjections.] And if you
don’t do it, I can promise you this, in 2024 the DA is going
to do it for you. Thank you. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon member. Go ahead.
Mr H G APRIL: I just want to check if its parliamentary to say
“gatvol”
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon Steenhuisen, that fancy Afrikaans
expression is not parliamentary. Don’t use it, please.
[Interjections.] No, no, no, Chief Whip, don’t use it as well.
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: I can tell you, Deputy Speaker
that it’s a lot more part of a polite lexicon than the word
the President used at this very podium two weeks ago.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no. Two wrongs don’t make a right,
hon member. No!
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: May I rise on a point of
order?
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, what’s your point of order, hon
member
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: On a point of order, Deputy
Speaker. When one looks at that word, it is a colloquial word
which means ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no, no! [Interjections.] Hon
member, you can try that luck with someone else.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I will try ... [Inaudible.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, don’t. It’s unparliamentary and we
will rule it as unparliamentary. [Interjections.] It’s not
okay in gentle House like this one. If you start using
“gatvol” then every member here is going to use other
similarly fanciful language. It is unparliamentary, just be
satisfied with that. [Interjections.] No, no, we are not
debating this. It is just out of order. Please hon members, be
warned. We will rule you out of order if you use it.
[Interjections.] Hon members, order! Order, hon members,
order, order! The EFF? Please, hon members of the EFF, we
should have had your names here. Just like the IFP, we don’t
have your names here, who is to follow, and similarly the UDM
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and hon members of Cope and the PAC. Just tell us who is going
to debate on your behalf. We would like to name you when we
call you. [Interjections.] No, no, no, why do you speak member
without being invited? I am just telling you what we expect of
you to do. This is expected of everyone in the House. You
don’t have to comment on that thing, just save your opinion.
Go ahead, hon member.
Ms P MADOKWE: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. South Africa’s fuel
crisis is not the result of natural forces that are beyond
human control - a natural force so big we can throw up our
hands in horror and despair. The symbol throw is that South
Africa faces big problems because of unaffordable fuel price
hikes. This is because ANC Ministers and their families,
friends and comrades wants to steal as much public money as
they can.
When former Minister of Energy, Ms Kubayi admitted that the
country’s strategic fuel stock was sold in corrupt secret deal
in 2016, the EFF was the only party that said that looters
should be arrested, including Tina Joemat-Pettersson. We said
that because we understood that there are shifts and changes
in geopolitics and international trends. But because Glencore
and the corrupt criminal syndicates that operate through
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bribes and illicit financial flows was one of the
beneficiaries of the loot, no one has been held to account. It
is the same Glencore that benefited Mr Cyril Ramaphosa in
deals for political leverage.
We are not shocked by this fuel price increases, because we
have warned in the past that government does not have a
practical or believable plan to address the rising cost of
living in short and medium term, not over the long-term. To
accept the excuse by the government that this increase in
petrol, diesel and paraffin are unavoidable because of crude
oil prices and rand and dollar exchange. ... [Inaudible.] ...
rate is to accept a collective incompetent government in this
to accept the ANC’s corrupt government. It is definitely to an
acceptance of the shambolic stage of the mismanaged economy as
it normal.
You increase the price of fuel, food, bread, vegetables and
prices of all basic necessities. You increase the price of
fuel and transport for school learners and workers - workers
whose wages have stagnated for years. You increase the price
of fuel and you kill small businesses which are already
struggling. You increase the price of fuel and leave
households without means to cook and keep warm. More than
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2 million families use paraffin to cook and keep warm during
winter because they do not have a choice. Even if they know
that it is highly flammable and taxing, they rely on it and
they can now not even afford the only available means within
their reach. This is the reality for many workers and poor
households – the reality that many of us here with Ministerial
benefits, parliamentary shuttles and free flights will not
understand.
The temporary reduction in the fuel levy of R1,50 has brought
no meaningful relief to our people. It is a reactionary and
desperate attempt to look as if the government has a plan
whereas they are clueless. To resolve the fuel hike price, we
must do the following. We should fast-track the review of fuel
prices and at the centre of this should be the poorest and not
businesses. We must rebuild an increased strategic fuel
stocks. We must stabilise the Central Energy Fund and the fund
must be allowed to fund and build state-owned oil refineries.
Any advice contrary to this is not honest and it is motivated
by narrow capitalist interests. It is both foolish and
incompetent to depend on more than 60% of fuel imports to meet
demand instead of building a reliable refinery industry.
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We must reclaim and nationalise Sasol. We must build state
capacity to turn coal into oil and also increase research and
development in the biofuel industry. This government has even
been ... [Inaudible.] ... by young people who have started
producing their own fuel with all the resources at its
disposal. These efforts must be maximised and they must be
funded.
Lastly, we must do away with the fuel levy with immediate
effect. We know that a corrupt ANC is neither willing nor able
to put any solution into action. The EFF will always be on the
side of the workers and the poor and we will take this fight
head on. We know that the ANC President, Mr Ramaphosa, is busy
with money laundering and the proceeds of crimes at his farm
and he has no business being in government to resolve ...
[Interjections.] ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member! You are not allowed to say
what you have just said without a substantial motion.
Ms P MADOKWE: Which one am I not allowed to say, Deputy
Speaker?
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I am talking to you. Withdraw
that statement immediately.
Ms P MADOKWE: Which statement am I withdrawing, Deputy
Speaker?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The one you said about Mr Ramaphosa. What
you said he did.
Ms P MADOKWE: I said a lot of things about him. Can you please
...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Withdraw it! If you don’t withdraw it ...
Ms P MADOKWE: I said a lot of things, Deputy Speaker. I said a
lot of things about him, please just ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Just withdraw! Are you prepared to
withdraw?
Ms P MADOKWE: What am I withdrawing? [Interjections.] Please
be specific as to what you want me to withdraw so that I can
withdraw.
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I am not going to repeat what
you said ...
Ms O M C MAOTWE: Deputy Speaker, may I rise on a point of
order.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You should repeat it! You should repeat
it! You should withdraw.
Ms O M C MAOTWE: Deputy Speaker, can I rise on a point of
order. There is nothing that commissar Phiwaba is going to
withdraw there. [Interjections.] There is nothing to ...
[Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If you don’t want to repeat it, you should
stop talking!
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Can I rise on a point of order, Deputy
Speaker.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You should stop talking if you are not
going to withdraw. [Interjections.] Hon member, I am talking
to a member here. You should wait so that I can give you a
chance to speak. Hon member, withdraw! [Interjections.]
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Ms E N NTLANGWINI: ... protecting my member! I am protecting
my member from your unruly behaviour.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member!
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: I am protecting my member from your unruly
behaviour. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Ntlangwini! [Interjections.]
Ms P MADOKWE: Can you specify what exactly am I withdrawing.
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: No, I am protecting my member from your
unruly behaviour.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Ntlangwini, you are taking without
being recognised. You are going to leave this House. You will
leave this House! You will leave this House! [Interjections.]
Hon member! Hon member! Hon member! You have a choice to
withdraw or you should go to your seat.
Ms P MADOKWE: There is nothing I am withdrawing. Please be
specific.
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay. [Interjections.] Hon ... What did
she say?
Ms P MADOKWE: Please be specific as to why am I supposed to
withdraw.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay, hon member, if you don’t want to
withdraw then you should stop talking.
Ms P MADOKWE: But what am I withdrawing. Can I please be told
what exactly am I withdrawing?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If you don’t want to withdraw then you are
not proceeding. I told you and you chose not you hear. You
should leave the podium, hon member.
Ms P MADOKWE: Can you please be specific.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I told you ...
Ms P MADOKWE: What exactly am I supposed to withdraw.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What you said about Mr Ramaphosa, the
President, you must withdraw.
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Ms P MADOKWE: I have said a lot of things about the President.
What exactly am I withdrawing?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Withdraw it! If you don’t, then you should
go.
Ms P MADOKWE: I have said a lot of things about the President.
Which one am ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You should withdraw!
Ms P MADOKWE: What am I withdrawing?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are not going to continue. I can
assure you of that. I can assure you of that!
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Deputy Speaker ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are not going to continue. You are not
going to continue - simple!
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Deputy Speaker?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, go and sit down.
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Mr N L S KWANKWA: Deputy Speaker?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You have a choice. [Interjections.] Hon
members I don’t want your help. Hon members?
Mr N L S KWANKWA: But you are not helping us, sir. We don’t
know what the member said. We don’t know what she is supposed
to withdraw. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I said you should leave the podium if you
refuse to withdraw what you said.
Ms P MADOKWE: But what am I withdrawing, Deputy Speaker?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members. Hon members ...
Ms O M C MAOTWE: Deputy Speaker, may I rise on a point of
order?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am not your conduit for unparliamentary
language and she is going to withdraw. Hon member! Hon member,
get off from the podium there.
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Ms O M C MAOTWE: Can we help you? Deputy Speaker, can we help
you? May I rise on a point of order.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You get off from the podium. You are not
going to proceed.
Ms O M C MAOTWE: Deputy Speaker, may I rise on a point of
order.
Ms P MADOKWE: What am I withdrawing? Please advise ...
Ms O M C MAOTWE: Deputy Speaker, may I rise on a point of
order.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are not going to proceed without
withdrawing your statement.
Ms O M C MAOTWE: Stop being a bully, wena [you] Deputy
Speaker. What’s your problem?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You refuse to do it, then you are not
going to proceed. You know what you said!
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Ms O M C MAOTWE: Stop being a bully. She’s asking what must
she withdraw.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: It’s your speech is not mine. And I
pointed out what is it that you said. [Interjections.] You go
ahead and withdraw.
Ms O M C MAOTWE: She is not withdrawing anything. She is not
withdrawing anything, wena [you] Deputy Speaker. Stop being a
bully.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are wasting your time and our time.
Ms P MADOKWE: Deputy Speaker, I have ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, this is the last time I call
you. If you don’t want to I will call the Serjeant-at-arms to
remove you.
Ms P MADOKWE: I did not say that I am not going to withdraw. I
asked what exactly am I supposed to withdraw.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, get away from the podium if
you refuse to withdraw.
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Ms P MADOKWE: I want to pick this again now. I am asking a
simple question. What is it that I am supposed to withdraw?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are not going to proceed, hon member.
Please, just get off the ... [Interjections.]
Ms P MADOKWE: It’s not enough that you want to ...
[Inaudible.] ... again. Tell me what is it that I am supposed
to ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, I have indicated what the
member should say. [Interjections.] In your immediate
response, so, she must withdraw that.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: We didn’t hear you.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You must withdraw that. What is
unparliamentary is in the Rules and you know it. I am not
going to be your conduit for unparliamentary remarks that you
make knowingly and you want me to repeat them. I am not going
to repeat your unparliamentary remarks, and you know them.
[Interjections.] If you don’t want to withdraw them, then you
forfeit your right to speak.
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Ms E N NTLANGWINI: May I rise on a point of order, Deputy
Speaker.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Paraphrase it for us then, Deputy Speaker.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order?
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Deputy Speaker,
you would know per the Rules. You need to tell the member what
she said and what is unparliamentary on what she had said.
[Interjections.] You must follow the Rules to the tee.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon ...
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: You can’t expect ... Now you are saying she
must withdraw.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member. Hon member.
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Okay, she withdraws “was”. She withdraws
“was”.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member.
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Ms E N NTLANGWINI: She withdraws the word “was”.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member.
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: She withdraws the word “was” and she
withdraws the word “the”.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You have finished talking now! Take your
seat! [Interjections.] Take your seat, hon member.
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Withdraw “the”.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, each one of you here knows the
Rules. You knowingly make statements in the House and when I
ask you to withdraw you should withdraw them. Simple!
[Interjections.] Yes, hon member. What are you rising on, hon
member?
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: I am not challenging your
ruling, Deputy Speaker.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, talk to me, please.
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The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: I’m saying to you that I think
it is unreasonable for you as a presiding officer not to tell
us what we have to withdraw. It is important as well ...
[Interjections.] ... because you really ... [Inaudible.] ...
rulings of unparliamentary language
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I’ll tell you. I spoke
immediately after this member made mention of the President.
[Interjections.] Listen to me! Listen to me! Hon member, I
spoke immediately after she said it, and I said withdraw that.
So, she must withdraw that. You will go to Hansard if you want
it.
IsiXhosa:
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Hayi Sekela Somlomo. Sekela Somlomo, hayi,
hayi ... [Uwele-wele.]
English:
Haai, [No] Deputy Speaker. No, no. no! Deputy Speaker, no, no,
no. No, no, no! [Interjections.] No, no, no! Deputy Speaker
... [Interjections.]
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker ... [Inaudible.]
... to advise my parliamentary caucus ... [Interjections.] ...
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IsiXhosa:
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Ayikho le nto uyenzayo ngoku.
English:
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: ... ruled is unparliamentary so
that they don’t repeat it. [Interjections.] I can’t do that if
it’s not on record ... [Interjections.] ...
An HON MEMBER: Correct, and some of us are following these ...
[Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Let me point out to you that I have made a
ruling here ... [Interjections.] I have made a ruling on this
matter and the ruling is that as soon as the hon member made
reference to the President in the way she did, and where she
stopped I said to her to withdraw what she is saying. ...
[Interjections.]
Ms O M C MAOTWE: You don’t even know yourself ...
[Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: ... because it is unparliamentary.
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Ms O M C MAOTWE: You don’t know, that is why you can’t say it.
You don’t know what you said yourself. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If she refuses to do so ...
[Interjections.] ... authority of the chair ...
IsiXhosa:
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Uqalile ke ngoku wena, hayi
...[Ngokungavakaliyo.] Uqalile Sekela Somlomo, hayi.
English:
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: ... she is breaking an additional Rule ...
[Interjections.] ... and she is not going to proceed.
Ms O M C MAOTWE: No, you don’t know yourself what you wanted
withdrawn. [Interjections.] You don’t know. [Interjections.]
You are just wasting your own time.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Deputy Speaker, but in all fairness ... I
mean we are on the platform.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you should get away from the
podium. Serjeant-at-arms ...
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Mr N L S KWANKWA: But you see you don’t recognise us from the
platform as if we are not in the House. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: ... [Interjections.] ... Serjeant-at-arms
get the member to get off the podium.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Ae, no, Deputy Speaker, aa, aa, no man.
IsiXhosa:
Hayi, uyamosha ngoku Mhlekazi [Uwele-wele.]
English:
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you are requested to leave the
House. [Interjections.]
IsiXhosa:
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Hayi, uyamosha ngoku.
English:
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member ... hon members, order!
Mr N L S KWANKWA: No, there is no order here. You are out of
order, sir.
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you are refusing ...
Mr N L S KWANKWA: But you are out of order.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member ...
IsiXhosa:
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Hayi Sekela Somlomo uyamosha ngoku ...
English:
... in all honesty. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you must now leave the House.
IsiXhosa:
Nksz B MATHULELWA: Sekela Somlomo, ingathi uthunyiwe. Ingathi
uthunyiwe ukuba mawenze oku ... [Uwele-wele]
English:
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are going to reap ... Hon member!
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Deputy Speaker, we are trying to help you,
sir. We are not trying to degenerate the House.
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, please leave the House.
Ms V T MALINGA: The spokesperson of the House ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, leave the House.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: I am not a ...
IsiXhosa:
... nam ndixakiwe,
English:
I am a Member of Parliament and I have to say something when
things go wrong. Deputy Speaker, I raised my ...
[Interjections.]
IsiXhosa:
... akafuni.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member ... [Interjections.]
Ms P MADOKWE: All what I am asking is to be told what I need
to withdraw. [Interjections.]
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IsiXhosa:
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Kodwa ayikho le nto ayenzayo.
English:
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, will you leave the House.
[Interjections.]
Ms B MATHULELWA: May I rise on a point of order?
Mr N L S KWANKWA: For what?
Ms B MATHULELWA: May I rise on a point of order, Deputy
Speaker?
IsiXhosa:
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Hayi suka, hayi suka ...
[Ngokungavakaliyo.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Serjeant-at-arms ... [Interjections.]
Ms B MATHULELWA: May I rise on a point of order, Deputy
Speaker? [Interjections.]
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Mr N L S KWANKWA: But this is not the Deputy Speaker’s House.
This is our House.
IsiZulu:
Nk B MATHULELWA: Heyi wena, yini manje.
English:
Just be ... [Interjections.]
Ms B MATHULELWA: May I rise on a point of order, Deputy
Speaker? Point of order! [Interjections.]
Mr N L S KWANKWA: No man! No, no, no, no! The Deputy Speaker
is actually bullying the hon member.
IsiXhosa:
Ayikho le ayenzayo.
English:
And also in the House when we are trying to rise on points of
order we are not being recognised. It’s almost like we are not
in the House.
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you are going to have to leave
the House. [Interjections.]
Mr N SINGH: Deputy Speaker ...
Mr N L S KWANKWA: No man, but this thing ... [Interjections.]
Deputy Speaker, but we are also in the House. When we follow
these proceedings virtually we are also in the House and when
we rise on a point of order you are supposed to entertain it.
[Interjections.]
THE CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: ... Order, hon Deputy
Speaker. [Interjections.]
IsiXhosa:
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Hayi, ngumdudo wamasele lo ...
English:
THE CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: With due respect, hon
Deputy Speaker. No one is ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What are you rising on?
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THE CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: I am rising on a point
of ... [Interjections.] ... Hon Deputy Speaker, I am rising on
a point of order without challenging your ruling.
[Interjections.] I am rising on a point of order, hon Deputy
Speaker, without engaging on your ruling. But the fact here is
that the hon member is requesting you to explain what is that
she must withdraw. She is not refusing to withdraw. I am sorry
to do this to you, but we are trying to assist because we are
all here, please, Deputy Speaker.
Mr N SINGH: Hon Deputy Speaker ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Go ahead, hon member.
Mr N SINGH: Hon Deputy Speaker, I rise on a point of order and
just to follow the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, would it
not be advisable in the interest of us proceeding – I know
it’s the last day of our session – that you refer to Hansard
and you can rule at some other time. You can reconsider your
ruling after you have looked at Hansard and then we continue
with this session.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Hon Deputy Speaker.
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much. Hon Gwarube?
Ms S GWARUBE: Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker. Deputy
Speaker, the problem we have here is that this would set a
very bad precedent for the House if we do not have a codified
list of words that are deemed unparliamentary, then we will
never know not to repeat them. And you refusing to repeat what
words the member used is now causing this House to be entirely
disorderly, and it would collapse the House. So, I am pleading
with you Deputy Speaker to refer to the specific words that
should be deemed unparliamentary for record purposes so that
we will all know what words to use and what words not to use.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: And hon Deputy Speaker ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Can I just ...
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, may I also say
something. You didn’t hear all of us.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, yes, yes. Where are you? Go ahead.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: We wanted to ... [Interjections.]
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, take your seat and settle
down. Hon members! Hon members standing. Hon Mazzone. Hon
members, take your seat please. Settle down. Hon members,
order! Order!
IsiXhosa:
Ms B MATHULELWA: Ingathi ukuluhlu olubhatalwa nguMongameli
kodwa Sekela Somlomo.
English:
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You will be orderly, hon members.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Deputy Speaker.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, go ahead, hon member.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: I just have an appeal. Even when we called
you earlier, rising on points of order, we wanted to help the
House. We didn’t want to disrupt the proceedings of the House.
But I want to appeal to you that you should treat us the same
as those members who are sitting in the House physically. When
we rise on points of order on the platform here is because we
want to help you, and we also want to help with the
proceedings of the House. I mean it is unfair that we rise on
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points of order by raising hands, trying to interject and
cannot be recognised, in the process of you arriving or making
a decision. Thank you.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay. Alright. Thank you, hon member for
raising that. We will co-ordinate better with the front desk
so that I can see when you have your hand up on the screen
there. We will do that. Hon members, these are my reasons for
not repeating what was said earlier on. I will repeat it and
it is for the last time it happens, and I tell you why. I am
aware that this is a deliberate intention to say things and
give an impression you don’t remember when you know exactly
what you said ... [Interjections.] ... I am talking ...
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: On a point of order ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members! Hon members, I am talking and
I gave you an opportunity to speak. Breaking the Rules and
playing clever by half is unacceptable. It is unacceptable!
This hon member, in her remarks, she said Mr Ramaphosa, the
President is busy with money laundering. This is the
expression she used. Hon members, you cannot make such a
statement in the House without a substantive motion. And if
you don’t want to withdraw, hon member, I have already ruled
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on you anyway. So, you withdraw, you have a choice. Hon
member?
Ms P MADOKWE: What is the other choice, Deputy Speaker?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you are playing games now. I
have told you what you said. If you don’t withdraw, would you
please go, and I am not repeating this.
Ms P MADOKWE: It is fine; I will not withdraw.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Go ahead, yes. You should leave the House.
Hon Hlengwa?
Mr M HLENGWA: Thank you, very much hon Deputy Speaker, it is a
matter of public record ... [Interjections] ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, leave the House, you can’t
sit. Hon member, you can’t sit there, you must leave.
[Interjections.] No, no, no you must leave, hon member.
[Interjections.] Serjeant-at-arms please escort the member out
of the House.
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Hon members, don’t complicate things by pointing at me,
please. Please leave! Hon member Madokwe, I have asked you to
leave. Hon members on your feet, you either settle down or
leave with her. You have a choice.
Ms P MARAIS: Deputy Speaker, point of order please?
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Who’s speaking? Hon Madokwe, please leave
the House.
Ms P MARAIS: Deputy Speaker, point of order please?
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please leave ... [Interjections.] No, no
let me finish with the member please, respectfully. The House
and its Rules must be respected and if we are not able to
enforce any rules in the House then there is no point in us
sitting here. We called the member to comply with the rulings
of the Presiding Officer.
Ms P MARAIS: Speaker, but you said there in front that she
must leave the podium and go sit down, now you are saying that
she must leave the House.
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THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I said that the member must
leave the House. She refused to withdraw and she must leave
the House [Interjections.] You can’t debate this ruling that I
made.
Ms P MARAIS: But, you said she must leave the podium. You said
that she must leave the podium, you did not say that she must
leave the House.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you can’t debate a ruling that
I made. You are violating the Rules of the House. Leave hon
Madokwe, please leave. You are obstructing the House. You are
now obstructing the House. Hon member, leave!
IsiZulu:
Sicela uhambe lungu elihloniphekile Madokwe.
Ms P MARAIS: You ANC people are useless.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Hlengwa, please proceed.
[Interjections.]
Mr N SINGH: Deputy Speaker, I think until order is restored,
it will be difficult to hear hon Hlengwa.
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, I did say that hon member, thank you
very much. Go ahead hon Hlengwa.
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, it is a matter of public
record that the IFP has been pleading with government for
years now to provide relief to ordinary South Africans in
relation to the ever-increasing fuel prices.
We have written letter upon letter, amongst others, and in
July 2018 to the then Speaker, Baleka Mbete, to request an
urgent debate calling for the suspension of fuel levies as we
are debating today. This request was rejected, resulting in a
protracted exchange of correspondence until the debate was
scheduled.
We launched a Suspend Fuel Levies Campaign that same year,
followed by an open letter to the President in October 2018,
echoing the cries of South Africans calling for an urgent
reprieve.
I will remind the President now, as I did in my letter to him,
of an ANC statement of 16 September 1993 titled ANC demands
suspension of petrol price increase, which said the following:
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The ill-considered and uncaring decision to increase
the petrol price only confirms the NP government does
not have the interests of the majority of South
Africans, who are poor and struggling desperately to
make ends meet, at heart. Now is the time for them to
establish the tradition of a government that cares for
and consults with its citizens.
It is both ironic and tragic that as opposition parties today
and every other day since, we now find ourselves echoing this
same petition and that the ruling party, who have the means to
make a lasting difference, consistently choose to ignore the
plight of the poor.
During the almost four years since that open letter, the IFP
has continued to unfailingly call upon government to review
the fuel price structure, in particular the excessive levies
that form almost a third of the cost of a litre of petrol.
Most recently in March 2022, after we again called on
government to suspend fuel levies with immediate effect,
temporary relief was offered by the Minister of Finance and
has since been extended to August 2022.
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Unfortunately, this was merely a smokescreen. As of 3 August
the fuel levy will be reinstated in full, with the public,
again, left to carry, not only the increase fuel cost but, the
rapidly rising cost of food and other necessities that
accompany every fuel hike.
However, according to a 31 May joint media statement by
Treasury and the Department of Mineral Resources and Energy,
DMRE, it seems another decrease is on the cards:
After review and a consultation by DMRE it is proposed
that the basic fuel levy price also be decreased by 3
cents per litre in the coming months.
This is a complete insult to the people of South Africa,
particularly one considers that billions of rands that are
ferreted away each and every year by government departments.
The Road Accident Fund, RAF, which is funded through an
exorbitant fuel base levy, continues to be mismanaged and it
is now in court challenging a disclaimed audit outcome.
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Why must the people continue through fuel levies, funs an
entity quite clearly unable to manage its own financial
affairs?
The entire fuel structure must be changed in favour of
commuters, consumers and the economy. Fuel levies are not a
blank cheque.
According to the Auditor-General, AG’s, 2021 citizen’s report
detailing the audits of national and provincial governments,
unauthorized expenditure has increased every year for the past
three years, reaching R3,2 billion in 2021. Further, irregular
expenditure soured to R166 billion and R1,7 billion in
fruitless and wasteful expenditure. This is over R170 billion
lost. Yet government can only offer citizens a 3 cent per
litre reduction [Time expires.] Thank you, Chair.
Afrikaans:
Dr W J BOSHOFF: Agb Adjunkspeaker, die krisis wat ons tans met
brandstofpryse beleef, is ’n krisis bo-op ’n krisis. Die Suid-
Afrikaans ekonomie was reeds nie in ’n goeie toestand nie toe
’n oorlog uitbreek - en oorloë het ’n manier om uit te breek
waar olie volop is - waaroor ons geen beheer het nie. Met ’n
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swak Rand en ’n hoë olieprys, word die prys van brandstof net
eenvoudig onbekostigbaar.
Energie wat te duur is, kan ’n ekonomie tot stilstand bring.
Dit kan maak dat daar niks anders meer gebruik kan word nie,
want energie is immers die dryfkrag van enige ekonomie.
English:
Now, the components of the fuel price can be taken back to the
basic fuel price, which not a lot can be done about it, it can
be recalculated in another way but according to the price of
the rand and according to the price of crude oil.
Then we have the different margin for retail and for
wholesale, and we can tweak that, but maybe that wouldn’t make
such a difference either.
It lets me think a lot about somebody who’s always being
stopped at the aeroplane for luggage which is too heavy and
then decides to pack short-sleeve shirts rather than long-
sleeve shirts, it may help but it’s not going to make the
difference.
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The we have the Road Accident Fund, and a lot of diesel, even
petrol, is burned by people who want to get around
loadshedding. That petrol or diesel never see a road and
should not contribute towards the Road Accident Fund.
And then we have the tax, the normal ... the levy which goes
into the fiscus, which is around R4,77.
In South Africa we don’t tax maize-meal because it is a
staple, because we know that a lot of won’t have anything to
eat if you tax maize-meal, although other things are taxed.
We also don’t tax small incomes. There’s an amount you have go
over before you have to start paying taxes.
Afrikaans:
Dis ’n drempel in Afrikaans.
English:
Petrol and diesel is approaching the stage where we can’t tax
that either, because it will grind the whole economy to a halt
at this price.
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If we compare the money which will be lost to the fiscus if we
take the petrol levy or the fuel levy away, it’s about
R90 billion per annum. If we compare that to lost revenue due
to the covid-related – what you call the - ...
Afrikaans:
... grendelstaat.
English:
... when we compare it to the last ... due to the lockdown,
that was about R300 billion, and that was taken from the
economy.
If we just end the petrol levy, then we inject another
R90 billion into the economy, which will be spent by
businesses, by consumers and it will add to the economy, it
can ignite economic growth. Therefore, it might not be a loss
to the economy, it might actually be a gain, even to the
fiscus.
Therefore, this is the FF-Plus’ plea, that everything which
goes to the state, out of the petrol and diesel price, should
just be abolished. Thank you very much.
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Mr W M THRING: Hon Deputy Speaker, the ACDP agrees with most
South Africans in stating that the recent fuel hikes could not
have come at a worst time. Taking the price to just under R25
per litre for inland users and around R24 per litre along the
coast.
South Africans are struggling under the weight of 46%
unemployment on the expanded definition, rolling blackouts,
business closures from the harsh lockdown and irrational covid
regulations, flooding drought and collapsing service delivery.
Hon Deputy Speaker, any rational thinking person will conclude
that the majority of South Africans just cannot afford to pay
for these increases in the fuel levy.
With the global price of oil currently sitting at over US$180
per barrel and the rand weakening at R16,11 to the dollar, our
currency has been vulnerable to the bouts of weakness due to
strengthening of the dollar.
As the net importer of crude oil, this paints a grim picture,
for not only South African motorists but the general public at
large.
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The ACDP agrees with the economists that every aspect of our
economy, including consumers and businesses alike, would be
hard hit by the fuel hikes. The impact will be severe and will
have a ripple effect further down the economy on a macro level
in terms of inflation. Transporters of goods and passengers
cannot absorb the increase cost of fuel as this will put them
out of business. The reality is that these increase cost will
be transferred to the public.
We must do away with what economists call price stickiness,
even though we are price takers when it comes to oil. We must
rid this government and its departments of corruption, fraud,
inefficiencies and jobs for cadres. For, in so doing, there
will be sufficient reserves to cover these exorbitant fuel
levies.
While welcoming the reduction in the fuel levy where with the
extension R1,50 will be taken off the general fuel levy in
June and will then be half to 75 cents per litre in July, the
ACDP adds its voice to those of concerned South Africans
calling for the scrapping of the fuel levy. And furthermore
calls on African countries rich in oil to sell to the African
counterparts at a price which will ensure that the African
economies will not collapse.
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The ACDP cares, and only the uncaring will continue to inflict
hardships on the poorest of the poor by these exorbitant fuel
levies. Thank you, Deputy Speaker.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, South Africa already
grappling with high unemployment, floods, violent crime and
economic decline, yet it is facing another challenge of the
rise in fuel prize. The recent increase means fuel is around
40% more expensive than a year ago. This naturally affects the
inflation which is the increase in prize of goods in South
Africa. The prize increases reduce the purchasing power of
money that in turn has adverse impact on consumer welfare.
For an example take the case of people in rural areas who
solely depend on grants to buy food, build houses, support
their children with a mere R1 900 a month. How are they
expected to survive? Also imagine a MaDlamini from
Khayelitsha, who is unemployed and has to pay about R110 just
for a two litre of cooking oil. It is difficult for our people
to survive. That calls on us as leaders to do something and to
intervene in the market and show that we provide even more
protection to the poor and the vulnerable.
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Imagine also a young student and young people who use public
transport to go and look for jobs. With these prizes rising
they might end up instead of looking for jobs, they would have
to consider the opportunity cost of taking a taxi to look for
a job in order to submit a curriculum vitae, CV, and to buy a
loaf of bread, because of the cost of living has become
expensive and is causing frustrations to the poor.
We must not be surprised if the poor rise up and rebel against
us because we are not reacting to their challenges and to
their concerns timeously.
Hon Deputy Speaker, we are of the view that for instance if
you will recall that Africa launched its continental free
trade area. There was a huge launch where the Presidents of
different countries signed the launching of the continental
free trade agreement. The purpose of that was to boost intra-
Africa trade. For us it makes perfect or better sense for
South Africa to start considering importing fuel from African
countries within Africa and enter into negotiations to make
sure that the prices they charge are reasonable.
We have a responsibility as this House and as leaders in
general to make sure that we may consider further adjustments
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on taxes and levies billed into the petrol prize which
contributes significantly to the high fuel price that our
people pay on a daily basis. Failure to do so, we will result
in ...
IsiXhosa:
... into yokuba abantu bakuthi basiqhankqalazele, basibethe
kwaye bangasiqondi kuba asikwazi ukuthetha nabo nge ...
English:
... imported inflation without being able to demonstrate
clearly and interactly what we have tried to do in the medium
to long-term to alleviate the plight of the poor on this very
important question. Thank you, Deputy Speaker.
Mr B N HERRON: Hon Deputy Speaker, already hard-pressed South
African consumers are braising for another double dose of pain
with increasing fuel prices and increasing municipal rates of
electricity and water tariffs, if in fact you consider the
seasonal costs of keeping warm in the dead of winter.
The state will argue that there is very little it can do to
intervene. It will point out that South Africa does not pump
its own oil or refine oil any longer, so the base prices of
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petrol, diesel and paraffin are beyond our control. And it
will say that the country cannot afford to forego the R1,50
general fuel levy which was suspended for a few months
forever.
With respect to electricity prices, as ... [Inaudible.] ...
calls them, we are presently held hostage by Eskom’s monopoly
and gross inefficiency. Most South Africans have little option
but to cough up for the insult.
Water true is a basic necessity and few residents have
alternative sources to their supply by the municipalities.
The truth however is that the state does have the power to
cushion citizens from their pain. To exercise the power and
prioritise debt which should be prioritised requires a mind-
set shift in the state’s approach to the way it spends its
money.
Instead of dividing the revenue according to historic formulas
and spending patterns, we should be cutting the cloth to fit
the suit we actually need. Informed by our most pressing
prioritise. The approach is known as zero-based budgeting.
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It is not that the state cannot afford to forego the R1,50 of
the fuel levy, or that our towns and cities cannot afford to
add tariffs to our electricity and water bills or that we
cannot afford the basic income grant for that matter, the
reason we cannot afford these things is because we prioritise
other things.
South Africa’s economy stumbling before COVID-19 is battling
to resurrect itself. Many people are suffering. When you
already cannot afford to live; how can you possibly afford
more increases to the cost of living? Fuel and electricity
prices and hikes do not just affect owners of vehicles or
domestic users; they have a knock on impact on the prices of
just about everything else right down to the price of food,
school stationary and medicines.
Through action such as a temporary reduction in the fuel levy
introducing the R350 Social Relief Grant, the state has
already indicated good intentions. Now, it must take the very
next step, getting struggling South African through the
economic quick sand we are in and reducing the hardship and
indignity of profound poverty. This is the priority. We must
fund our national priorities and defund wasteful and
unnecessary expenditure. Thank you.
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Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon Deputy Speaker, I heard my colleague,
the hon Kwankwa talking about getting oil from the African
countries. Well right now why not getting it from Russia? Pay
with a ruble. No problem, plenty of oil. [Applause.]
It is just the matter of ode ring and it will be delivered.
Let us not forget that some of us own the oil and others
control it. And of course through the dollar. So, maybe it is
time to relook at: Why the price of oil, is what it is today?
Like many other commodities we all have, but in the hands of a
few. Particularly the African continent. Let us not forget
about that.
Now, yes indeed I must agree that we need to bring the cost of
fuel down, because when the cost of fuel rises, it impacts on
the most vulnerable. The cost of food products, and traveling
go up. There is no doubt about it.
However, we need to look at some of the challenges our people
face particularly if you talk about travel costs. The spatial
planning instead of taking businesses or people to live closer
to the work, they are living far away from work which impacts
on the money they have available to spend on food clothing and
shelter because most of their money and I think a very great
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percentage of a vulnerable person of an ordinary citizen’s
money today goes to travel.
Now the Road Accident Fund has been very badly managed. Let us
all admit that. Maybe it is time to do away with the Road
Accident Fund. However, not entirely. Maybe let us include
that in the licencing. Let us privatise it. Let some private
insurance companies come in and deal with the issues of the
Road Accident Fund because clearly, when it is controlled by
the state, there is a perception out there that the state is a
cash cow and lots of the legal experts have been manipulating
the system and benefitting unduly from that. So, maybe it is
time to actually privatise that and take it away from the
control of the government.
The other way I think I must agree that if we could the
retail, wholesale and margins if they are being allowed to
have competition of course, it can bring the prices down. When
they start competing you will have a choice whether you want
to go to a Shell or Caltex garages. That is one of the ways I
think that we will be able to reduce the cost of fuel.
However, what it is important to note that South Africa has a
serious problem currently and that is the level of poverty is
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very high. Based on that when we have increases of this
nature, particularly the most vulnerable people suffer as a
result of this. So, I think in order to lower this costs we
need to consider some of these things. I know that there are
lots of people waiting in the Russian harbours to be able to
come through to South Africa and let us take advantage of it.
Remember many others were sanctioned during the days of
apartheid. Thank you. [Time expired.]
Mr M G MAHLAULE: Deputy Speaker, the public outcry by hon
Kevin Mileham of the DA against the regulation of the domestic
oil market will likely to lead to mix effects. Of course, the
deregulation of the domestic oil market in some ways will pave
the future that will set South Africa on a route to recovery
in response to the fuel price hikes through the promotion of
competition. However, in other ways will trigger the perverse
negative effects that must be avoided at all costs. For
instance, South Africa is not a landlocked country from an
exogenous view point, but it does not have favourable
geographical locations from the indigenous view point either.
In particular, six out of nine provinces are not coastal and
thus do not have the direct access to the sea to trade goods
directly in the international system. As such non-coastal
provinces which are mostly former Bantustan homelands will be
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disadvantaged by the deregulation of the domestic oil market
as they will incur spikes in transport costs and petrol prices
due to their distance from the coastal lines.
Hon Deputy Speaker, the proposal for the deregulation of a
domestic oil industry by hon Mileham is a smokescreen. To be
frank deregulation will disadvantage the agricultural and
mining sectors in the non-coastal provinces as the current
regulatory system averages the secondary transport costs
whilst a deregulated market will contain actual transport and
storage costs as part of the margin. At the moment the
regulation of the domestic oil market by the ANC-led
government ensures that non-coastal provinces pay the same
amount as coastal provinces for the transport and storage
costs of petroleum products to their communities whereas
deregulation will negatively affect communities in the non-
coastal provinces as delivering small volumes of petroleum
products over long distances is expensive.
Moreover, the regulation of the domestic oil market by the
ANC-led government already brings relief to the people through
cheaper input costs for food security due to the pricing
mechanism which only recognises one average price for the
transport and storage costs of petroleum products. The
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proposal made by hon Mileham that the deregulation of domestic
oil market is the best way that the ANC-led government can
minimise the burden of fuel price hikes on the poorer
motorists and households as well as emerging small businesses
must be understood within a framework of special interests
versus collective interests. Hon Mileham makes his proposal
for the deregulation of the domestic oil market on the basis
of special interests rather than collective interests.
Therefore, this special interests style approach results in
the distortion of one crucial issue.
Currently, 75% of South Africa’s petroleum products is
consumed between KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng provinces which is
the direct results not only of the Durban to Johannesburg
pipeline, but also the concentrated market structure of the
apartheid era. One of the greatest risk of this market
concentration is that if left unregulated it can induce oil
majors to pull out from areas where the transport and storage
costs of petroleum products are above the level of recovery in
favour of areas where the actual costs are below the costs of
recovery. In short, the deregulation of domestic oil market is
likely to favour the poorer motorists and households as well
as emerging businesses in Gauteng where the DA currently runs
the metros.
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This misleading proposal for the deregulation of domestic oil
market reflects the beggar-by-thy-neighbour neoliberal policy
where the benefits of deregulation will be enjoyed by some
provinces while adversely affecting other provinces such as
the Western Cape with the rise in shipping costs in that
province. In other words, hon Mileham is a flip-flopper who
comes in Parliament calling for the deregulation of the
domestic oil market, but in reality deregulation will reflect
actual and not average scores for the storage and
transportation of petroleum products thereby increasing fuel
prices in the Western Cape rather than reducing them. Hon
Mazzone, I will ask you to pronounce my surname and you will
fail dismally. His proposal that the Competition Commission
can address market concentration has the greatest emotional
appeal to the public at large.
The domestic oil market is, of course, more complicated than
the fallacy in this proposal. The oil industry is capital
intensive which implies that there is limited access than open
access in the industry. Moreover, the Fuel Retailer
Association report highlighted that 60% of the 4 790 service
stations in South Africa are under the control of oil majors.
This is an indication that transformation in the domestic oil
market remains a challenge. Therefore, the internal monopoly
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of oil majors would not necessarily break down under the
pressure of competition as a result of the deregulation
proposed by hon Mileham. The Competition Commission cannot
eliminate the danger of significant monopoly control over the
oil majors in South Africa. Even if the Competition Commission
was to curb the monopoly control of oil majors it will not be
able to deal with the possibilities of increased delivery
costs to non-coastal provinces and the withdrawal from
supplying these provinces due to high costs which will
ultimately trigger shortage of petrol products.
By now, Deputy Speaker, you should be aware that this hon
member comes to Parliament in his pyjamas as he is clearly
sleeping on the job through sleeping on fact-based evidence.
Hon Mileham further proposes that ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, hon members! Order, hon members,
order! Order, hon Mahlaule, just one second. Yes, hon Mazzone,
what are you rising on?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, the hon
Mahlaule is just indicating that Mr Mileham ...
[Interjections.]
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Oh, please, oh, please, just give the hon
member a chance to finish, please. I can’t hear her.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Mahlaule ... [Inaudible.]
what you want, has just indicated that Mr Mileham comes to
Parliament dressing up with pyjamas. Now, it’s not my fault
that gentleman ... [Inaudible.] but anyone else consider that
Mr Mileham is perfectly in good suit ... [Inaudible.] not that
insult ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Mazzone, must you really take away our
time like that. No, no, no that’s out of order, that’s not a
point of order. Go ahead, hon Mahlaule.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, please, can
I have that ruling be sent to the Rules Committee for
investigation. Thank you.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no, the Rules Committee won’t
accept it even to come in even through the window, absolutely
... [Interjections.] ... No, no, no, we don’t have to debate
that. go ahead, hon Mahlaule ... [Interjections.] ... What’s
that? Hon Paulsen, cool your heels, please man. Just cool your
heels. Go ahead, hon Mahlaule.
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Mr M G MAHLAULE: Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker. This hon
member further proposes that the ANC-led government should
scrap the fuel levy entirely as it is regressive tax an impact
on input costs to the economy. This will supposedly save the
poorer motorist and households as well as the emerging small
businesses approximately R3,93 per litre. His attempt to put
pressures on the ANC-led government to conceive his ill-advice
will not make the inevitable fuel price hikes and the ...
[Inaudible.] living conditions of the majority even worse in
two negative ways.
Firstly, South Africa is a net import of crude oil and
petroleum products. Therefore, it does not have a monopsony
power to drive a high bargain with international oil producers
and subsequently impose an unduly no price on that. The
international price for petroleum products is set by
international refining centres from which international oil
producers set global prices. In short, it is improbable that
scrapping the rand-denominated fuel levy will offset the
dollar-denominated imports parity price of oil and petroleum
products, unless the strength of the rand improves relative to
the dollar which is not likely in this conjecture. Given the
strength of the dollar relative to the rand it is possible to
argue, but hon Mileham’s proposal has a glimpse of spite as it
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is clearly tinkering on the edges and speaking about a few
cents rather than any major price reduction in the fuel price.
Secondly, South Africa is a tax dependent state and,
therefore, collecting taxes from fuel sales generate the much-
needed revenue to crowd in funding the support both social
programmes like social security grant and the costly
nonrenewable resources of energy that he always is fixated on.
This is why the ANC-led government has introduced the
temporarily relief on the fuel levy which currently amounts to
R1,50 per litre to minimise the burden of fuel price hikes on
South African consumers. However, since hon Mileham as a false
Messiah suggests that we should scrap the fuel levy entirely,
then he should at least make a concrete proposal to the public
about how that revenue which will be lost to the fiscus
through scraping the fuel and how we can recoup that under a
tight fiscus constrains.
Of course, our neighbouring countries have a lower tax base
requirement and therefore fuel is cheaper than in South
Africa. However, a zero sum game the lowering of the fuel tax
means recovering of the money for the fiscus from other forms
of taxation and this will obviously be a slap in the face of
the working class, but not the wealthy rich that the DA
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represents. In some countries a wealth tax is imposed to
reduce inequality and perhaps hon Mileham might consider that
as a Private Member’s Bill.
Another proposal made by hon Mileham is that the scrapping of
Road Accident Fund, Raf, will induce the burden of fuel price
hikes in South Africa consumers. However, Raf is asocial
benefit scheme for users on the roads affected by accidents,
and is, therefore, critical. Privilege will always make
somebody ignorant to such things, I’m not surprised - it’s a
privilege. The only sign of cheerful in this debate is that
hon Mileham lacks the capacity to grapple with the fact that
the costs of scrapping Raf and the fuel levy far outweighs the
benefits. Nevertheless, the committee will continue working
with industry stakeholders to find a sustainable way to
minimise fuel price hikes including appealing to the Minister
to take a long-term review on pricing mechanisms. In this
regard, hon Deputy Speaker, it is important in this session to
say that a country must put as critical the restoration of
refining capacity to ensure the supply of fuel. Thank you very
much. [Applause.]
Mr S M JAFTA: Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker. The historical
demises place back to 27 US$ 27. It was called then US$ 28 a
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barrel when its actual price at the time was US$ 49 per
barrel. The practical implementation ... [Inaudible.] ... of
price on the poor. The fuel price increasingly and because of
distribution the poor on the economy is also dire.
Revenue streams in the amount of diesel has lowered
production. In agriculture food production has also been
affected severely. The poor rail system has also ensured that
our people are forced to use busses and taxis at an increased
fare.
We therefore, need to subsidise Africans during this difficult
times. We have been on the record calling off the Value-Added
tax, Vat, on stable items to be scraped in order to subsidice
the poor. We also need to diversify our energy streams. Part
of this, hon Speaker, would require a climate sensitive oil
exploration drive to caution South Africans from these tides.
We are reliable informed that the World Bank has approved
R7,6 billion to South Africa. This money must help to
subsidise the poor and empower the state to develop new
partnerships with the private sector particularly in the cost
of ... [Inaudible.] ... deregulate ... [Inaudible.] ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Ntate, Tafta?
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Mr S M JAFTA: Hon Deputy Speaker? Hon Deputy Speaker?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Complete your point, Ntate. Your time is
flying out here.
Mr S M JAFTA: ... [Inaudible.] ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Jafta? We regret, we can’t hear you.
And unfortunately also, we gave you little 12 seconds to see
if it works out. We can’t ... We hope that that infrastructure
and reception in this area will improve.
Mr S M JAFTA: Yes.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, we can’t hear you. So, we had to call
the next speaker.
IsiXhosa:
Nksz S GWARUBE: Sekela Somlomo, ndithi mandithethe nabantu
baseMzantsi Afrika namhlanje, ndingathethi nani maLungu
ePalamente. Isizathu sesokuba lo msebenzi siwenza apha
uchaphazela wonke umntu weli lizwe. Yiyo loo nto kumele
siqinisekise ukuba urhulumente wenza kangangoko anako
ukukhusela abantu kumaxabiso anyusa umnqantsa abantu abaninzi.
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Izigidi ngezigidi zabantu kweli lizwe zihlala kwiimeko
zentlupheko. Abantu abaninzi baswele ingqesho kwaye loo nto
ithi kwimizi emininzi akukhomali ingenayo.
Bathi besanyamezele oko, asuke urhulumente we-ANC anyuse
ixabiso lepetroli. Xa kunyuka ixabiso lepetroli loo nto
ichaphezela amaxabiso okutya, amaxabiso eeteksi neebhasi
ezisingise kwiindawo zokusebenza. Imali yomzali womntwana
owamkela isibonelelo somntwana iphelela endleleni engekafiki
nasedolophini, noko kutya aza kuthenga kungaphumi konke.
Abantu bayaphela yindlala, abantwana bakhubazekile ngenxa
yokungafumani kutya okusempilweni besiya esikolweni belambile.
Abantu abadala bazondla nzima iintsapho zabo. Namhlanje
ndikhumbula uThabang Van Staden oneminyaka engama-26 othathe
ubomi bakhe esaze ngobuso ezweni, kuba ebedinga umsebenzi.
Kufuneka namhlanje sithabathe amanyathelo okususa irhafu
kwixabiso lepetroli. Xa singayenzi loo nto siyakuba sibulala
amaphupha abo baxhomekeke kuthi njengenkokeli zabo. La manani
sithetha ngawo apha ngawabantu abaphilayo. Asenzi nje
imizekelo ngamanani. Ohloniphekileyo uMahlaule uthi
urhulumente uxakekile akakwazi ukuwathoba la maxabiso epetroli
kodwa akathethi nyaniso. Inyaniso ekhoyo yeyokuba lo ukhoyo
urhulumente akakhathali.
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Ukuba besinorhulumente okhathalayo ebengasayi kuvuma ukuba
kunyuke amaxabiso epetroli nokutya ngeli zinga silibonayo.
Inyaniso yeyokuba le rhafu siyihlawulayo ingaka ingena
kwiipokotho zabo. Thina apha eMzantsi Afrika siphethwe
ngoohlohlesakhe. Isixa semali yerhafu kwipetroli iya kwingxowa
karhulumente. Ingaba benza ntoni ngale mali? Ingaba bayithoba
ngomlenze, umntu ngamnye azakhele iNkandla nePhala Phala
yakhe?
Bachitha isigidi sezigidi e-R1,8 billion bezikhusela
ngoonogada namapolisa. Ukuba urhulumente ebekhathala, ebeza
kuthoba ixabiso lepetroli. Bekufanele ukuba uMphathiswa
uMantashe uyichaza namhlanje ukuba irhafu ekwipetroli
uyayisusa. UMphathiswa, ngokwenza njalo ebeza kuthoba ixabiso
lokutya, anyuse inkxaso-mali esisibonelelo kubantu
abangasebenziyo. UMphathiswa kufuneka avulele amathuba
omsebenzi kuba abantu beli lizwe kudala becinezelekile phantsi
kweemeko ezibuhlungu. Singumbutho weDA senza ikhwelo sisithi
makukhululwe abantu kuziswe imisebenzi ukuze kubuyele isidima
sabo ebantwini. Malithotywe eli xabiso lepetroli. Yisuse le
rhafu Mphathiswa uMantashe. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES AND ENERGY: Deputy Speaker
and hon members of this House, I want to make three points.
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First, the DA’s survey is something that was not disclosed.
What was the question, because the question in the survey
influences the outcomes? Even if it is a desktop research if
your question is, should we cut the price? Obviously, the
answer will be, please cut it. And we will get hundreds
signatures until the question is scientific.
Secondly, one of the things that I have grown to understand is
that my Ministry doesn’t talk about levy. I doesn’t talk about
tax, I don’t talk about funds, I don’t talk about finance and
I don’t talk about money. All those things ...
IsiXhosa:
... kuxoxwa ngazo kwinto ekuthiwa luhlahlo lwabiwo-mali
olukuMphathiswa wezeZimali.
English:
That is the second point.
The third point that I want to make is that for society to
engage in a comprehensive discussion, we must give society
information so that the society debates with us in a rational
way. Let me get to that now.
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Hon members, three measure factors impacted on global energy
system in the last two years. The first one was COVID-19
pandemic. In what way? It affected the supply across all
sectors. Secondly, it is the increased price of natural gas in
Europe in 2021 causing increases in all prices as alternatives
were sought. Prior to the sanctions, Russia was the dominant
supplier of diesel in Europe. Thirdly, the geopolitical
conflicts in Central-Eastern Europe resulted in increased
prices in crude oil and petroleum products in the last five
months.
All of us therefore have a responsibility to inform society
instead of just inciting it. We need to get a solution that
will be sustainable, that will be lasting. The conflict has
since moved in to a global economic war involving the west.
Sanctions by the USA and the European Union, EU, on Russia’s
oil and petroleum products have resulted in major imbalances
in the demand and supply that prompted high fuel prices. We
wished to be insulated from the globe, but we are part of the
globe. We are not insulated from the globe, but we are part of
it and not by choice, but is reality.
Other casualties of this situation in South Africa and
globally are food prices – cooking oil grains and other food
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items. The UN Secretary-General amended the high cost of wheat
and the potential increase of shortages of basic food stuffs.
That is not by some Ministers in South Africa, but it is the
United Nations’ Secretary-General because he has an overview
of the globe. He knows that this does not affect us
domestically, but it is affecting the globe.
The use of energy as an economic weapon outset developing
countries disproportionately. We pay higher prices than the
developed countries. That’s why when Europe is under pressure
they tell us not to use coal and they go and buy more coal
including our coal and use it. Because they are developed,
they have the power and we are an encircled nation which is
used as a conduit of ideas of developed nations. It is an
issue that we must deal with it openly as a country.
Angela Merkel, a highly respected leader in the world,
cautioned against actions that could make life more difficult
for many people around the world. She has retired and
everybody is defying her.
To cut off the Russian Federation from the global petroleum
supply, a country that accounts to 11% of the global supply,
exposes developing countries to unaffordable price increases.
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Our economies are laid bare to imported inflation and high
interest rates that could ultimately cause recession
throughout the world economies adversely affecting developed
and underdeveloped ones. Imbalance on petroleum product supply
may also lead to fuel shortage as Europe competes for
alternatives. Let me explain this because I heard some
proposals that, let’s focus on the continent. Unfortunately,
petroleum oil product is prices globally - whether you order
it from Angola, you get it in Nigeria or from Equatorial
Guinee which we do get from those countries. Let me tell you
that we have increased the volumes from the continent because
we have been working on increasing Intra-Africa Trade. We have
the benefits of that, but the reality of the matter is that we
are not isolated from the globe. We are here and we are part
of the globe.
This bleak outlook extends to the emergence of China from lock
down which will significantly increase the price of crude oil.
Afro airlines in the continent are already experiencing
difficulties which they will not survive if the situation
sustain beyond six months. Not in South Africa, but now I am
talking about the continent.
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It therefore begs the question, if as we are told, the
conflict is one of democracy versus authoritarianism, why are
flagging democracies of developing countries subjected to one
untold missile? It is a debate we should have. Instead of
taking a trip to Ukraine, Mr Steenhuisen, and I take my own
trip to Russia, Moscow, it doesn’t matter what we should, but
we are talking about ... it requires a detailed analysis
rather being simplistic. Simplistic solutions do not last. The
western countries should be reminded that economic war they
have unleashed disproportionately impacts South Africa and
countries like ours.
I was reminding somebody last week that I grew up in Cala. It
is a village. There are things called rondavels with no
windows, but just holes. We use clothes to close them. If you
are beating up a cat and you close a rondavel with no escape
route, you are going to lose an eye. If the North Atlantic
Treaty Organisation, Nato, wants to extend to Ukraine and
squeeze Russia, they are going to lose an eye. So, there is no
simplicity about our analysis. Let us be scientific.
Hon members, our government is committed to explore numerous
possibilities. Mr Mileham when you were speaking I set there
respectfully and respected you. But I know you can’t. You are
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going to kick desks and do all sorts of things while I am
speaking. I am expecting it. It happens all the times. But
when you speak I sit there quietly listening to you
respectfully.
Recently, our Ministry together with the Treasury reduced the
fuel levy by R1,50 per litre. It is not by R1,50, but R1,50
per litre. It makes a big difference because when you just say
R1,50 you think that we just give R1,50. It is R1,50 per
litre. We are contusing with that. It is for three months now
and we have already agreed that at least the best in July we
can sustain R0,75. Where does that money come from? We
normally talk loosely that the Treasury ....
When Mr Mileham was speaking here he referred to the strategic
stock. Somebody referred to the strategic stock. Was it you?
But somebody referred to the strategic stock. When the
strategic stock was sold there were headlines that somebody
has stolen the strategic stock and sold it illegally. When we
brought it back no articles were written about it. We brought
it back, and I am telling you now. Having brought it back, it
is that strategic stock that is helping us to have the
capacity to provide the R1,50. It is not money from the
fiscus, but it is about that strategic stock sold to replace
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the relieve to the users. I have not heard anybody
...[Interjections.] Paulsen, keep quiet. I know that you have
swallowed the whistle. Keep quiet! [Laughter.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Paulsen! Hon members, order please.
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Swallow the whistle.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, order please.
Mr M N PAULSEN: ... keep quiet. Deputy Speaker, this is an
example of how you sit on the job. Order him to withdraw that.
Order him to withdraw that.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I can’t hear you, hon member. What are you
saying?
Mr M N PAULSEN: Order him to withdraw that.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am trying to ask people to be quiet so
that I can here you.
Mr M N PAULSEN: Okay, I withdraw that. My apologies! It is an
insult. This one insulted me now. He must withdraw.
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hon member, please take your seat.
Mr M N PAULSEN: No, I’m not going to take my... are you going
to order him to withdraw?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What? Were you insulted? Are you saying
that you were insulted?
Mr M N PAULSEN: This one insulted me.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, but you can’t say this one, speak
properly, hon member.
Mr M N PAULSEN: ... he insulted me.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, take your seat, please. Go
ahead, hon Minister.
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: On a point of order, Deputy Speaker.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order, hon member?
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Deputy Speaker, you have perfectly heard
it. If you didn’t hear it, you can ask the staff there in
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front or ... [Interjections.] ... no I am on a point of order.
What is this?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Go ahead, hon member. “Bua o qete”. [Speak
and get finish]
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: The staff there in front of you ...if you
didn’t hear it maybe because you were sleeping on a job, or
because of the old age or you were busy with something else,
there are staff there. They are supposed to assist you. The
hon Minister made an insult towards Nazier. He ought to
withdraw it.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member! Hon member!
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: He must withdraw it. He insulted Nazier and
you claim you didn’t hear him.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What’s the insult? I asked you and him and
none of you have said it.
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: No, they must tell you. That’s their job.
The staff in front of you must tell you.
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay! Alright! Alright!
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: They must tell you. What are they there
for?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay, hon member. Take it easy.
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: He said Nazier has swallowed the whistle.
That is what he said. He said Nazier has swallowed the
whistle. Didn’t you hear?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, okay, okay. First, I must
determine whether swallowing a whistle is an insult ...
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Don’t do it!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: ... and if it is an insult, we will rule
against it. I have never heard such an insult before. In my 67
years.
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: It is an insult.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hold on. They will tell me. Hon Minister,
proceed.
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Ms E N NTLANGWINI: You like to collapse the House and you
think you are fun
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Proceed, hon Minister.
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: You like to collapse the House and you
thinking you are fun.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no! That’s enough.
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Hayi suka! [Fuck yo]
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES AND ENERGY: We are dealing
with the global challenge, and not just a domestic problem.
Our discussion must be located within a global debate. That is
the appeal I am making to every Member of Parliament. Our
country’s response to these challenges is in line with
industrialised countries. If we do something unique we are
likely to miss the point. I want to remind Members of
Parliament that the price of oil was US$121 per barrel
yesterday. It used to be around US$40, and it used to be US$20
per barrel at one time, but it is now US$121 per barrel. And
we must respond to that as a country and not be emotional.
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I was talking to the chairperson of the portfolio committee
and said to him, we should consider importing crude oil from
Russia at a low price because it is not sanctioned. Of all the
sanctions there are no sanctions against crude oil. So, we can
import crude oil from Russia at a lower price. [Applause.]
Currently, we are not having our own oil except the limited
one by Sasol.
The other point that we should work together on is to allow
exploration of gas and oil in our land. There’s plenty of it.
Every time we are taken to court because we are doing
exploration. We must get the support of the country
irrespective of party. The oil that was discovered in Namibia
stretches into the Northern Cape side. The Northern Cape is
likely to produce oil in the near future provided we go
through our court cases. That’s it. We will give it to anybody
who wants to do exploration and is prepared to do development.
I am not a prisoner of your white monopoly capital theory
which is a flawed theory. I want development, I want petroleum
and I want gas in South Africa.
As we go to a transition to electric vehicle we must
accelerate that pace. Green nitrogen which have started must
be accelerated. Therefore, it is an issue that we must debate.
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I hear the call to do away with the Road Accident Fund.
Culturally, it is not in my scope, but as far as I am
concerned it has things to do because the state will have
responsibility to accidents. People must have to be self-
ensured and if you are not ensured when you die and you do not
get any compensation. You injure yourself you don’t get any
compensation. If that is the choice that South Africans want
to take, it is a choice that must be explicit and we
appreciate it. At this point in time if you say your support
was from trucks and all those things, count accidents that are
caused by trucks and buses on the road. There are lot of them.
So as we deal with those issues we must understand them.
Hon members, we are also beginning to notice alteration of
fuel. This is confirmed by the samples picked up in service
stations where people mix diesel, petrol and paraffin. We
should deal with those issues.
Let me conclude as my time is getting out. At present the only
sustainable solution for our energy crisis is to end the
conflicts in central Europe. This is the only solution. Our
responsibility as government is to continue implementing
measures to mitigate undue burden on consumers. [Time
expired.]
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022
Page: 205
Debate concluded
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order hon members, hon members by
agreement we will take the following two items as Fifth and
Sixth Orders, these are Draft Notices on Magistrate and Judges
Salaries. Further it has also been agreed that there will be
no declarations on the items. The Secretary will read the
Fifth Order.
CONSIDERATION OF DRAFT NOTICE AND SCHEDULE DETERMINING THE
RATE, WITH EFFECT FROM 1 APRIL 2021, AT WHICH SALARIES,
ALLOWANCES AND BENEFITS ARE PAYABLE TO MAGISTRATES ANNUALLY,
FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT IN TERMS OF SECTION 12(3) OF THE
MAGISTRATES ACT, 1993, ACT NO. 90 OF 1993
There was no debate.
Question put.
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
CONSIDERATION OF DRAFT NOTICE AND SCHEDULE DETERMINING THE
RATE, WITH EFFECT FROM 1 APRIL 2021, AT WHICH SALARIES,
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
WEDNESDAY, 15 JUNE 2022
Page: 206
ALLOWANCES AND BENEFITS ARE PAYABLE TO CONSTITUTIONAL COURT
JUDGES AND JUDGES ANNUALLY, FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT IN
TERMS OF SECTION 2(4) OF THE JUDGES’ REMUNERATION AND
CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT ACT, 2001, ACT NO 47 OF 2001
There was no debate.
Question put.
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
Business of the day concluded.
The House adjourned at 15:59.
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