Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 07 Jun 2022
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
TUESDAY, 7 JUNE 2022
Watch: Plenary
PROCEEDINGS OF NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
____
The House met at 14:00.
The House Chairperson Ms M G Boroto took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers
and meditation.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Let’s make sure that we still carry on with trying to protect one another with the wearing of our masks. This is just a rare occasion where I would like to welcome managers of this Parliament in the gallery where they are seated. I know it doesn’t happen often. I just feel good that you should be welcomed to the House.
APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate on Vote No 2 – Parliament:
The SPEAKER: Thank you very much ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Before you proceed, Speaker, that sound again. Please look into it before the Speaker starts. There is an echo. Seems better now. Something is wrong. Please check as she proceeds.
The SPEAKER: Thank you very much, hon House Chairperson, presiding officers and hon Members of the National Assembly, the beginning of year 2022 marked a period during which Parliament, in its role and duty to the people of South Africa, following the unprecedented devastation as well as its own recovery and rise in the aftermath of the furious fire that destroyed its own infrastructure in the first few days of this year. It should also be remembered that our country and the world beyond our borders was also caught in the throes of COVID-19, which killed more than a million of our own citizens.
However, our people continue to be resilient in terms of their resistance to the calamities we have referred to above, and continue to engage in the rebuilding and reimagination of our country’s future. Our people, I believe, will look for the proverbial phoenix, as our nation rises from these ashes of the devastation of the fire at Parliament, to come out stronger and more united, in our continued quest to build a better future for our nation. For, as Joseph Ning so aptly pointed the symbolism of the phoenix, and I quote: “Never bested by hardship or defeated by death, the phoenix is the ultimate icon of hope and rebirth.” So shall it be for this institution, rising from its own ashes to stand as a torch-bearer for our nation. It is this daunting task before us, that forms the backdrop to this, my maiden introductory speech of Parliament’s Budget Vote debate, as Speaker of our National Assembly. In the context of this backdrop therefore, we present a budget which I trust will present a picture that does not define business as usual. The unfortunate events that led us to our current circumstances have also created opportunity for us to re- evaluate and reimagine our work with a view to use the lessons
of our business unusual, to improve the functioning of Parliament and strengthen the capacity legislative sector as a whole.
Hon members, as per the requirement of the Financial Management of Parliament and Provincial Legislatures Act, we present the 2022-23 budget based on the overall strategic plan of the 6th Parliament and the annual performance plan as tabled.
We also outline, as part of the accountability process, the key achievements and challenges of the previous financial year, which represented effectively the second year of functioning within the constraints of the COVID-19 pandemic.
Given the need for Parliament to continue functioning and active, more so during the challenging period of the pandemic than at any other time in our history, the institution had to do everything within its capacity to remain effective within the business unusual model.
During the period in review, Parliament adapted itself to new ways of working, ensuring that effective oversight and
accountability is exercised, including the increased use of advanced technology to hold virtual and hybrid meetings. Given the odds against which the institution had to operate over the year in review, the levels of achievements made can only be described as extraordinary. Much commendation must go to the management team, the staff and you, hon members for such achievement in performance.
Despite the constrained environment, Parliament continue to function and fulfil most of its obligations. This is only possible through the introduction of the innovative business unusual model that saw increased reliance in new technologies, ensuring that committees and plenaries are held virtually and
later as a hybrid. Under public participation, public interface and public participation had taken a notable dive during 2020-21 at the height of the hard lockdown, but we have now recorded marked improvement in this regard as a result of the new public participation strategy aimed at enhancing public information, access and participation. Under lawmaking. Parliament’s constitutional mandate of lawmaking was successfully executed, managing to pass a total of 20 Bills during the period in review. In addition, Parliament also passed the national budget, which is also tabled annually in Parliament in the form of legislation. It is also worth noting that Parliament was able to finalise a number of legislations, key amongst which was legislation aimed at combating gender-based violence, which was officially recognised as a second and a worsening pandemic during COVID- 19 lockdown period. These bills included the Criminal and Related Matters Amendment Bill, the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences and Related Matters) Amendment Bill, and the Domestic Violence Amendment Bill.
Parliament continues to regard its role in lawmaking, as critical in giving practical expression to the values and provisions of our Constitution and in supporting our democracy. Allow me to say something on the Electoral Laws Amendment Bill. In this regard, allow me to address a matter related to
concerns that have been raised recently about the work we are doing in finalizing the Electoral Laws Amendment Bill. As members are aware, as per the agreement in the National Assembly Programming Committee of 17 February 2022, Parliament has approached the Constitutional Court for a six-month
extension within which to process the Electoral Amendment Bill. I would want to assure the public that both Houses of Parliament are committed to processing this Bill timeously whilst at the same time taking into account the necessity for thorough public consultation on a matter of such importance to our democratic dispensation. We hope that the President will assent to the Bill before the end of 2022.
We must state categorically that there is no justification at
all for recent attempts by some to cause public panic by
suggesting that the general elections of 2024 are at risk.
Having said that, it remains the duty we have to this
democracy as Parliament, for every member in this House to
work together to ensure that this Bill succeeds.
With regards to oversight, oversight work remains a key pillar
of the work of Parliament. In this regard, many of our people
would have been justified in their concerns on Parliament’s
inability to exercise oversight and to hold the executive
accountable. Of course it should be understood that there were
inhibiting circumstances, including both the COVID-19 lockdown
and the fire at Parliament, which impacted negatively the
normal oversight function conducted by Members of Parliament.
The adjusted working model aimed at ensuring Parliament’s
continued functioning during both the pandemic and fire
disaster, ensured that Parliament’s oversight work was never
compromised. During this period, Parliamentary committees
embarked on 46 oversight visits and conducted 155 public
hearings on various Bills. Both Houses held sittings that
dealt with debates on issues of national importance, reports,
policy, and Bills.
During this review period, Parliament ensured that special
attention was paid to its role in the monitoring of the COVID-
19 pandemic interventions by government, including the
spending of public funds and the protection of basic human
rights where there were reported instances of abuse.
Parliament is committed to ensure that proper oversight
continues, especially the important work of committees,
despite the destruction of most of our facilities during the
fire in January.
Committee rooms, while limited, are available for committees
to meet physically. What is however lacking at the moment are
hybrid enabled committee rooms. These and other matters
relating to the resumption of physical meetings by committees,
will be discussed with the House Chairpersons for committees.
As for physical sittings of the National Assembly, currently
the Good Hope Chamber is the only venue we are able to use
without incurring huge costs. While the capacity of the venue
is limited, it has to be stated that currently the number of
members who attend sittings physically has not even reached
the prescribed number of 120.
Discussions with the National Treasury are taking place at
officials’ level regarding the various expenditure
requirements for the business continuity of Parliament
following the disaster.
One of the key instrument of our oversight functions is the
questions to members of the executive. During the year in
review, you members submitted a total of 3 580 questions to
the executive; 525 oral questions and 3 055 written questions.
There still remains a big challenge in this regard, with many
questions that are left unanswered for long periods beyond the
provided deadlines.
In 2021, the National Assembly adopted a mechanism for
monitoring delayed replies to questions. In terms of this
mechanism, the Speaker receives a report at the end of each
quarter regarding outstanding replies. The Speaker addresses
the matter in writing with both the Leader of Government
Business the affected Ministers. Amongst other things, the
Speaker requires of Ministers to give reasons for their
failure to reply. As the mechanism was applied for the first
time in the third term of 2021 and I only recently addressed a
third round of letters to the executive in this regard. Its
effectiveness is being assessed, but we are certainly moving
in the right direction.
With regards to the Zondo Judicial Commission on state capture
report, to date, the President has submitted four out of the
five reports of the Commission on State Capture. The final
report will only be presented to the President on 15 June 2022
and thereafter the implementation plan will follow four months
afterwards. Based on legal advice received, Parliament has
already commenced work on the 3rd and 4th reports. Members
implicated whilst serving as Members of Parliament and who are
still MPs, have been referred to the Joint Committee on Ethics
and Members’ Interests to consider the allegations in order to
determine if there was a breach of the Ethics Code.
The research unit of Parliament has been tasked to analyse the
reports with a view of advising the relevant oversight
committees or the Rules Committee once the final report and
implementation plan has been submitted. This work will inform
decisions of the Rules Committee in relation to possible
action to be taken under the Powers and Privileges Act against
implicated individuals who are no longer Members of
Parliament.
The Secretary to Parliament has also been tasked with ensuring
that members receive adequate training on key financial
legislation to avoid oversight failures highlighted by the
commission in relation to Parliament’s role. Only once the
entire report and implementation plan is before Parliament
will the Rules Committee decide on how best to proceed with
the processing thereof.
With regards to our international engagements, in line with
our obligations for international solidarity and co-operation,
Parliament continued to implement its international relations
program objectives. International solidarity was in particular
the most basic requirement in the world’s efforts to
effectively fight and reverse the devastating effects of the
COVID-19 global pandemic. Despite the continued travel and
gathering restrictions globally, the SA Parliament managed to
participate in various multilateral structures, including the
following: The 49th SADC Parliamentary Forum Plenary Assembly;
Fourth Ordinary Session of the Pan-African Parliament; 7th
Parliamentary Speaker’ Summit, and 143rd and 144th Inter-
Parliamentary Union Assembly; and 51st Commonwealth
Parliamentary Association Conference.
We are pleased about the impact of our participation in these
engagements and what they have come to mean for our Parliament
and the positioning of our country globally.
As members are aware, following the resolutions of the 144th
Assembly of the Inter-Parliamentary Union, IPU, I was amongst
other Speakers who were appointed by the IPU to the task force
on Ukraine and Russia. This task force forms part of the
global legislative effort to bring about a peaceful resolution
to the current conflict between the two countries.
Some of us in this House have over many years schooled in the
philosophy that a free South Africa would always embrace peace
and friendship amongst nations. What that meant, was that
force and wars are highly destructive to humanity, especially
towards women and children. In the circumstances we learnt, it
was always and even now it is our position that peace and
impartiality are paramount in the resolution of ant conflict.
Mediation therefore is part of the measures we use for
conflict resolution and post conflict reconstruction.
Our delegation was also instrumental in the finalisation of
the IPU Assembly resolution calling for vaccine equity in the
fight against the COVID-19 pandemic. It is therefore important
for South Africa to see how best it can implement this
resolution through the Portfolio Committee on Health. It is
alarming though to learn of the disparities of vaccination
statistics as reported by the World Health Organisation, WHO.
I think it is important that I mentioned that in all the
meetings that I have attended, there is a concern about the
low rate of vaccination in our continent. If you look at the
statistics, you’ll see that Europe is at 69%, Latin America is
at 76%, Asian Pacific is at 79%, US and Canada at 79%, Middle
East at 56%, and Africa is at 22%. That talks to the issue of
vaccine nationalism.
Here in South Africa, as I checked this morning, and I now
know that we have vaccinated 18 million adults. It is very
important that as Members of Parliament, we should go out and
encourage more people to vaccinate.
Under audit performance, we are pleased once again, to report
that Parliament continued to achieve a clean audit for the
seventh consecutive year. Also, critical to note is that,
despite the declining fiscal allocations caused by
deteriorating economic conditions, the control environment
remained strong, as the audit committee, internal audit and
the risk management capacity progressively improved.
The Speaker’s Forum as the current co-ordinating body for the
governance of the sector has continued to function and meet
regularly to oversee the process of consolidating this sector.
The initial ideas of legislatures organising themselves into a
sector, the South African Legislative Sector has come a long
way from operating as a simple association to being formally
organised on the strength of a memorandum of understanding,
MOU. Since then, the need for a strong, self-standing
legislative sector as an distinguishable arm of the state has
gained further momentum. The Speakers’ Forum has focused on a
mission to further formalise the South African Legislative
Sector, beyond the MOU to a draft Legislative Sector Bill that
will culminate into an Act of Parliament.
The Speakers’ Forum also identified the area of support to
presiding officers of Parliament and provincial legislatures
as a strategic area of intervention. To this end the Speakers’
Forum has developed a presiding officers’ handbook that was
adopted in its last meeting held in April 2022. The importance
and benefits of a capacity-building programme for elected
public representatives remains an important part of our
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commitments. The current capacity-building programme for
members facilitates formal education opportunities from the
level of undergraduate diplomas, for qualifying members all
the way to the level of masters. The Speakers’ Forum continues
to take pride in the results that have been produced by this
programme since inception. However, it remains important to
provide training to members on short courses at reputable
institutions of learning to empower us in our oversight work,
for instance, specialisation is necessary in the different
areas of oversight, which would even be of use to our lives
beyond Parliament.
The South African Parliamentary Institute, SAPI, was launched
on 9 December 2021 by the South African Legislative Sector,
providing a beacon of hope for the accelerated development of
the requisite human capital. The Institute boasts a board of
directors with eminent persons from the sector and a number of
industries.
The strategy of the 6th Parliament is orientated towards
ensuring more responsive and accountable government. The
strategic plan and annual performance plan of Parliament as
tabled last year, set out the required change initiatives for
the next few years. These institutional strategic initiatives
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include the following: An oversight plan to co-ordinate
oversight priorities and activities of committees; a public
participation strategy to enhance public information, access
and participation; a knowledge management strategy to manage
information and knowledge for the benefit of members; the
digital strategy allowing the implementation of modern
technology; a human resources strategy to unleash capacity and
skills; and a facilities management strategy for the future
accommodation for Members of Parliament following the fire
disaster.
We present a budget within the context of a changing economic
landscape both here at home and globally as a result of the
ongoing COVID-19 pandemic. The 2022-23 budget for Parliament
therefore, is set against the backdrop of declining budgets in
the state as a whole. There are also other emerging issues and
risks that will need action. These include adjusting to the
reality of a reduced budget, and addressing the aging
technology infrastructure.
The impact of the fire disaster meant that Parliament
continues to utilise alternative facilities to host the joint
sittings, sittings of the National Assembly, and these would
include office accommodation for members and support staff.
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While we have all hope for a return to more normal
parliamentary operations in 2022, the fire damage is
necessitating the continued use of hybrid proceedings in order
to fulfil the functions of Parliament.
The Department of Public Works and Infrastructure has
appointed an independent company to assess the damages caused
by the fire. Parliament will study the reports submitted after
the assessment is finalised and a decision will be made on the
best way forward.
Currently, the Good-Hope Chamber is being used to house the
sittings of the National Assembly, but there still remains a
need to create additional space to accommodate full sittings
for all Members of the National Assembly and the joint
sittings of Parliament. Parliament is considering various
options for the alternative accommodation for sittings.
However, much as people are desperate to come back and be in
physical meetings, I have noted that when we have these
sittings, a number of members who should be occupying some of
the seats here, are not available to attend sittings. At ever
other meeting, the issue is, Speaker, when shall we have a
physical sitting of all Members of Parliament? Other people
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don’t like this hybrid. The point is, even the 120 seats that
we have, we are unable to fill our allocation.
We will also receive a presentation of the feasibility study
which was conducted in 2018, on the relocation of Parliament
from its current premises in Cape Town. The report will be
shared with Members of Parliament before a decision is taken
on the future seat of Parliament. I do want to make this point
hon members. It is in the Constitution that the Parliament
seat is in Cape Town. Let’s not be subjected to pressure on
this matter. This is a matter that will be decided by the
nation. Not even parliamentarians will take a decision on the
matter. We will have to find a way when that time comes of
ensuring that South Africans a voice when we deal with the
matter.
In 2020 the National Treasury issued budget guidelines for the
2021-22 to 2023-24 Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF,
indicating an almost 10% reduction of Vote 2. This reduction
in the budget baseline requires mitigation steps to ensure
financial viability and sustainability. It is very clear that
if steps are not taken in correcting the allocation and in
reducing expenditure, a significant budget shortfall could
occur in the 2024-25 financial year. While the overall budget
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appears to be significant for 2022-23, the amount available
for discretionary allocation is very small. This is because
the accounting officer has limited control over the following
allocations, and I list them hereunder: Direct charge for
members’ remuneration; transfers to political parties; Parmed
payments; facilities for members; benefits for former members;
salary adjustments decided by the sector bargaining process;
and contingent liabilities.
Those are some of the things the accounting officer has a
difficult with.
The executive authority will consider specific proposals soon
with regard to the restructuring of our budget especially in
relation to these expenditure items. It is our view that as
currently structured, the Parmed is not financially viable and
is costing, not just Parliament, but individual serving
members a lot, as they are practically having to subsidise for
retired members.
Why am I raising the matter? My view is that we should push
for Parmed to be opened up and to go out and compete in the
market with other medical aid schemes so that at least there
is some relief on our side because what is happening is that
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we are throwing in a lot of money. It must start generating
revenue outside of the Members of Parliament. It must compete
with others. This is a matter which we would like members
pursue in our discussion.
The allocation of political parties’ allowances into the
baseline of Parliament has continued to cause a lot of
problems as Parliament is having to carry adjustment costs as
a result of the shortfalls in budget allocation by National
Treasury, despite the existence of clear rules and formula to
calculate these allowances annually. This is a matter I am
discussing with the Minister of Finance. I am really pleading.
He knows we are on our knees that we would rather have the
allocation to political parties out of our baseline and the
Parmed scheme out of our baseline.
The composition of the budget should be reviewed to reflect
the commitment to build a capable and viable legislative
sector in the interest of our democracy and real
accountability for executive actions.
The total budget obligations for Parliament as submitted to
the National Treasury was R2,757 billion. The allocation
received from the National Treasury amounts to R2,683 billion.
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This means that we have a shortfall for the amount of
R74 million that will have to be funded by retained earnings
and revenue of Parliament. This shortfall is largely driven by
the compensation of employment. The baseline reductions
introduced by National Treasury. The National Treasury
allocation for compensation of employees amounts to
R896 million, whilst the actual expenditure is R1,150 billion.
The baseline reductions have caused significant strain on the
budget of Parliament and will need to be addressed by cost
saving measures that Parliament has already initiated
including a revision of travel policies, Voluntary Early
Retirement Dispensation and organizational realignment.
Inflation is also expected to increase by more than 6%, this
in addition to the lifting of COVID restrictions that will
further drive up the cost of Parliament’s goods and services.
The budget of Parliament as allocated: Programme 1,
administration, R776 million; Programme 2, legislation and
oversight, R754 million; Programme 3, associated services and
transfer payments to political parties, R755 million.
The Parliamentary Budget Office, PBO, a separate entity in
terms of the Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related
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Matters Act receives a transfer payment under Programme 3, and
will need more funding over time to function effectively.
As I conclude, I want to thank the management and officials
for the sterling work they continue to do under circumstances
that could only be defined as daunting and at times, almost
impossible. I also want to thank you for your support as I was
being ushered in. As you are aware we have now passed the
resolution approving the appointment of a new Secretary to
Parliament, Mr Xolile George, who we hope should start his
duties soon after a protracted period of time without an
incumbent for the position. Mr George joins us in the gallery
today as a guest to observe today’s proceeding of the Budget
Vote.
Chair, allow me to specifically extend mine and the
institution’s gratitude to the current Acting Secretary to
Parliament, Ms Tyawa, for standing in and leading the
administration over the past few years, and for her work in
keeping this ship steady. We are confident that once Mr George
resumes duty, he will, as the first order of his job, move to
fill in all the vacancies that exist at management level in
order to stabilise the leadership and governance of the
institution.
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I also want to thank my fellow presiding officers, leaders of
parties, Chief Whips and each one of you, hon members, for the
reception and support that you have given me following my
election to the role of Speaker. Your inputs, support and
spirit of co-operation in these past months have meant a lot
to me, during one of the most volatile periods for Parliament
and our country. I call upon this Assembly to support this
Budget Vote 2. [Ndiyabulela.] Thank you very much.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I will now recognise
the Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party.
Siswati:
LISEKELA LESIKHULU SABOSOSISWEBHU LELICEMBU LELINEYNTI:
Sihlalo weNdlu, angibingelele Sihlalo weNdlu, ngibingelele
kuSomlomo, ngibingelele kuBaphatsiswa labakhona lapha,
neMasekela abo, ngibingelele kuMalunga ePhalamende. Sihlalo
weNdlu, angicale ngekutsi ngitsi, namuhla sidzingidza
loludzaba lweLuphekelotimali lePhalamende, ngisekhatsi
lematima. Lapho tikhukhula tiye tabhubhisa etifundzeni talapha
eveni; iKwaZulu-Natal kanye ne-Eastern Cape. Lapho bantfu
balahlekelwe timphilo tabo. Lapho bantfu balahlekelwe emakhaya
abo. Labanye kulesikhatsi sanyalo abakatfolakali. Sitsi dvudvu
kuleyo mindeni. Siphindze sitsi kwangatsi Nkulunkulu angabeka
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sandla, nalabo labangakatfoli, ematsambo abo bawatfole kute
bawafihle ngesizotsa.
English:
Hon House Chairperson, I want to begin my address with words
of Talal Abu-Ghazaleh, when he asserting that:
The foremost challenge is that of the knowledge
revolution. Economic power will depend on creativity and
innovation. Creation of wealth will move from traditional
resources to the one asset: knowledge.
As we debate the Budget Vote of Parliament, it is a budget
which will enable us appropriately re-position Parliament as
one of the three arms of state, as we strive to give
expression to the values and principles of people’s power
within the legislative arm, and governance by the will of the
people.
Parliament’s budget gives us the opportunity to reiterate and
give expression to the compelling principles of transformative
constitutionalism, particularly during the current epoch of
struggle, where Parliament must in earnest, execute its
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constitutional functions, to improve the quality of life of
the poor and marginalized.
Siswati:
Kulesikhatsi sanyalo Sihlalo weNdlu lohloniphekile, ngitsandza
kuvumelana naSomlomo weNdlu yePhalamende lekuSishayamtsetfo
Savelonkhe, kutsi siMalunga ePhalamende nome sikhatsi siye
saba matima kakhulu yatfolakala ishile iPhalamende, sikwatile
kutsi sisebente, siwente umsebenti wetfu njengoba usho
Umtsetfosisekelo. Tikwatile kutsi tihlangane letindlu
letimbili khona lapha kuleGood Hope Chamber.
Angeke sakuvuma siyi-ANC kutsi kutfolakale kumoshwe imali,
lekufanele yenta imitsetfo, lekufanele isekele Emalunga
ePhalamende kutsi ente imisebenti yawo, njekusho
kweMtsetfosisekelo ngekutsi kubukwe letinye tindzawo
letinkhulu, lapho sitewutfolakala khona sihleti
singayigcwalise nalena lencane Indlu. Sitsi singu-ANC angeke
sakuvuma loko. Angeke kwenteke ...
English:
... not under our watch. As we delve into deeper understanding
of the role of Parliament during the current epoch of
struggle, the perspectives of the Former Chief Justice of
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South Africa, Justice Pius Langa, provide a compelling
underpinning objective on South Africa’s Constitution,
particularly as we strive to ensure that Parliament functions
more effectively and efficiently, as a centre of people’s
power and people driven governance.
Through his articulation of the concept of “Transformative
Constitutionalism” Justice Langa asserts that South Africa’s
constitution is centrally framed for purposes of
transformation. In his paper titled “Transformative
Constitutionalism” he makes reference to the Postamble of the
interim Constitution, which expresses the pinnacle objective
of South Africa’s Constitution. He makes reference Postamble
of the interim Constitution and also expresses the pinnacle
objective of South Africa’s Constitution, to bring about
transformation and equality, in order to uproot the remnants
of an oppressive past. The Postamble as quoted by Justice
Langa, clearly asserts that the underlying imperative of South
Africa’s Constitution is to provide:
A historic bridge between the past and a deeply divided
society characterized by strife, conflict, untold
sufferings and injustice, and a future founded on the
recognition of human rights, democracy, and peaceful
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co-existence and development opportunities for all South
Africans, irrespective of colour, race, class, belief or
sex.
Within this broader context, the function of Parliament is to
ensure that it executes its oversight and accountability,
responsibilities, in order to create a more equal society,
where the previously marginalized can make access to a better
quality of life.
The mandate of Parliament is therefore also to accelerate the
transformation agenda, as guided by the provisions of the
Constitution, through strategic and outcome based oversight
and accountability, as well as through the precepts of an
activist People’s Parliament.
It has also widely been accepted, that distributive economic
justice will require from the legislatures and the executive,
the kind of activism that will promote strong participatory
economic development, where the economic potentials of the
majority are unlocked and economic self-management is
enhanced.
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These imperative developmental objectives must remain as
central in the in the current epoch of struggle, where our
oversight machinery must ensure that we strategically engage
the executive, so as to ensure that we accelerate the
realization of our developmental objectives, despite the
resource challenges we are facing as a country.
The legislative arm of the state must ensure through its
oversight and legislative role, that there is a speedy roll
out of basic services to the people, by passing the
appropriate legislation that speaks directly to the needs of
the people and which will directly benefit them.
The ANC General Council on its transformation of state
governance, also said that:
A conscious legislature is one which understands that
oversight is a continuous act, in which there is a
reinforcing working relationship between the legislature
and the executive, ensuring that ANC government policies
and programmes are implemented effectively and
efficiently, that decisions that are taken and
legislation that is passed must result in the better life
for all.
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These assertions give a clear direction, on the strategic role
that must be played by the legislative sector and Parliament
in particular, to meet the demands of the people. Bearing in
mind that the COVID-19 pandemic has severely impacted South
Africa’s economy, and has severely impacted the country’s
developmental trajectory, we must ensure that we effectively
coordinate our inclusive growth interventions, to create
employment opportunities and a better life for all.
The legislative sector must therefore employ every effort
necessary, to play a more strategic oversight and strategic
law-making role, to ensure that it becomes increasingly
responsive to the needs of the people, particularly the poor
and marginalized.
Within the context of a shrinking budget for Parliament, it
becomes more critical, that the administrative arm of
Parliament moves away from an insulated perspective of
providing a purely administrative support to Members of
Parliament. It must consistently remain cognizant, that the
work of the legislative sector is particularly driven by the
resolve to advance the realization of the principles and
provisions of a developmental state.
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That means that a consistent move towards transformation of
the facets of governance across the state machinery,
particularly to improve the quality of life of the poor and
marginalized, must remain as the central motivation of support
provided by the bureaucratic apparatus of Parliament. My
apologies hon members, my eyes today. I don’t know what is
happening, I can’t see clearly.
Hence the capacity to be both administratively judicious, must
be underpinned by a keen appreciation of the socio-political
and economic landscape, which shapes and defines the needs of
our people, which must be well understood across our ...
[Interjection.] As I conclude hon House Chair, the ANC
supports the budget. And also to thank the Acting Secretary to
Parliament for the sterling work that she did of holding the
fort during the most difficult time of our ... I thank you
[Time expired.] [Applause.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Hon members, Madam House
Chairperson, hon Dlakude, we know that you had a terrible cold
and you shouldn’t be here. We applaud you for coming to work
even when you are sick, when we see these empty benches. But
you have had your vaccine so we know that you are safe, just
like I have had my vaccine and I know that I am safe.
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Just as we thought a new year would bring hope and prosperity,
a mere two days in, we watched our beloved home catch fire and
burn down. To see it was heart breaking, and knowing that
things would never be the same again was almost too much to
fathom. I remember standing with hon Steve Swart handing out
water to the firemen, and I said to Steve, if you don’t mind,
at the time: “Will we ever be able to go back home?” Steve
quoted out of the Bible and he said: “Home is where your
family is, and as long as we stay a parliamentary family we
will rebuild.” And we certainly will.
Zoom has been a solution, but with so many Members of
Parliament, MPs, scattered in such far-flung areas, it remains
a huge problem for our democracy to be in full action when we
cannot be seated together. As always, the resilience of the
South African heart prevailed, but it has left too many
loopholes to holding the executive to account as well as the
dreaded mute button that takes away our right to speak on
issues that need to be fleshed out.
Hon Papo, I must say this to everyone here today, besides the
time that I had COVID, which was very weak because I had been
immunised correctly, we have been in this Chamber together
every day, and I cannot agree with you more every time you
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insist that this Chamber must be filled to capacity. We should
all be back at work, and not only 120 of us. Every single
chair and table that we can put in here should be filled with
members.
Parliament is not in a good way, and I am not referring only
to the buildings. We have staff with no offices, institutional
knowledge lost for life, and general chaos with regards to
sittings to no venues to do our work. We are in a bad space.
Hon Mantashe, I am happy to say we have the lights on today.
Accountability of Parliament to the people is hanging by a
very thin thread. I, as the Democratic Alliance Chief Whip, am
proud of my members who mostly paid themselves to take on
oversight during the period of the COVID battle. My
colleagues, you are my heroes for going to check on schools,
hospitals, clinics, the KwaZulu-Natal crisis and the crisis at
the border. These things you did on your own budgets and I am
proud of our leader who has gone to the Ukraine and to Somali
land to see what is going on first-hand, and long made that
kind of accountability reign when we are in struggling
periods.
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The more questions we submit the less questions we receive
answered. The more we insist the executive to appear before
us, we land up having Zoom conversations with, who knows,
assisting the relevant Minister with the answer. This year we
have only had one session with each cluster and we are already
at the end of second term. We are really going to need to
improve this. This is not accountability; this is running from
a problem that will simply grow and lead to more distrust and
concern with members of the South African public at large.
We need to become resilient enough to accept that snap debates
from the floor are an international best practice for a
reason, and we should not have to depend on one weekly meeting
where we grovel for debates of national importance. If we have
nothing to hide, any member in this House should be able to
stand up and answer a snap debate. It happens everywhere in
the world, but not in South Africa. Parliament should address
these issues before the opposition has to push and become
nasty and wait with bated breath for answers to be given.
We still lack basic services required to execute our jobs, and
Madam Speaker, hearing you say that our financial situation is
as bad as it is, really breaks my heart. I don’t think that we
have enough things like researchers, and the researchers that
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we have I don’t think are evenly spread throughout Parliament.
I am sure many of the smaller parties will agree with me that
we are desperate for researchers, and that there are people
walking around whom we have no idea of what they do except
receiving large polystyrene boxes full of food that they take
home for them and their families. That’s not what we are here
to do. We can afford our own food and we can make our own
scaftins.
I must take this opportunity, however, to thank the National
Assembly Table Staff for always being at hand to assist with
issues, spearheaded by Mr Xaso and his team of professional,
independent and knowledgeable people. This is a great service
to us and one that we don’t take lightly. We hereby extend to
you, sir and your team, our greatest thanks. Madam Speaker, I
hope that you will write a letter on behalf of the Democratic
Alliance congratulating the National Assembly Table Staff on
all they do for us, even if you phone them at 11 o’clock on a
Sunday night. Mr Xaso experienced just experienced this this
very week. I am sorry, sir, and apologise to your wife for me.
We are still lagging far behind many countries when it comes
to the updating and processing of legislation. Parliament is
the legislative arm of government, but still, so few pieces of
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legislation are completed and all Private Members Bills are
ignored if they do not have an ANC name on it, and this cannot
be denied. I, myself, have offered up a Bill and said take my
name off the Bill and add your name to the Bill, but let us
work for the country.
We have to accept, we are in a bad way; acting secretaries,
confusion over contracts, calling in of leaders of parties to
the Speaker, generic contracts being sent out. This Parliament
is not a well-oiled machine. Madam Speaker, I do not blame
this all on you; you took over something that was already
struggling. It would be remiss of me not to mention the danger
we are putting our members in every time we have an oversight
tour to undertake. We have had accidents, one of which has
been fatal. The drivers drive too fast and it is because they
are instructed to move at speed because programmes are not
timed properly. Here, members must take responsibility too,
because if your programme director says to you be ready at 7,
then be ready at 7. [Time expired.] ... Ma Boroto, as I end,
to be in Parliament is an honour. It is time to regain the
honour of Parliament and make South Africa proud of its
national stage. I thank you. [Applause.]
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Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Hon House Chair, the EFF rejects the
proposed Budget for Parliament. Section 65 of the Constitution
of the Republic of South Africa gives the National Assembly
power to initiate or prepare legislation. The ability to
initiate or prepare legislation is one of the two powers that
Parliament has. The reality is that Parliament does not have
the capacity to initiate or prepare legislation, and there are
no practical and implementable plans to build capacity.
Instead, Parliament is expected to just wait and the rubber-
stamped Bills introduced by the executive.
In the last 13 years, hon Papo, the National Assembly has
passed a total of 338 Bills of which 93% of these Bills passed
were Bills introduced by the executive. Since 2009 the
National Assembly has only passed one Bill introduced by a
member of this House. What a shame. This is not because
Parliament Members do not have ideas or social challenges that
can address legislation.
Since our arrival in Parliament in 2014 we, as the EFF, wanted
to amend the Constitution to allow land expropriation without
compensation, amend the South African Reserve Bank Act to
nationalise the Central Bank, amend the Banks Act of 1990 to
allow state-owned companies to apply for a full commercial
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banking licence, amend the National Health Act to allow for
clinics to open 24 hours, amend the Liquor Act to ban alcohol
advertising, initiate a general anti-tax avoidance Bill to
deal with the crisis of tax avoidance — and this is where Mr
Cyril Ramaphosa must listen — introduce insourcing Bill to
ensure that government departments and state-owned entities
insource workers of all reoccurring functions.
Parliament lacks sufficient capacity to facilitate the
development of these Bills. The Bill to nationalise the
Reserve Bank has been before the committee for almost three
years, and it is not moving because Parliament’s Bill Office
does not have capacity. After we have raised the matter with
the National Assembly Programme Committee, we have submitted a
practical and implementable way forward on how to build
capacity to initiate and prepare legislation by Members of
Parliament.
House Chairperson, the time has come for us to break the pact
that we have with the colonial and apartheid Cape Town as
Members of Parliament. On 27 May government gazetted and
published a notice of intent to introduce a Private Members
Bill, namely, Relocation of Parliament Bill. We must relocate
Parliament to Tshwane in Gauteng. This is the only way we will
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ensure that Parliament is accessible, promotes and
participates in law-making. The only way we will save money
spent on Ministers, state officials and Members of
Parliament’s endless travel to and from Cape Town. We must not
even waste money to rebuild Parliament; we must take the fire
as a sign of opportunity to finally relocate Parliament. We
must bring to an end those inflated renovation contracts of
parliamentary villages used to fundraise for ANC factional
conferences.
Lastly, House Chairperson, we must rebuild a language service
capacity of Parliament to offer interpretation and translation
of all official languages, not only Afrikaans. We must recruit
competent researchers and content advisors who are not
chairpersons and secretaries of the ruling party to support
all committees. All political parties must designate permanent
members into international and multilateral parliamentary
institutions such as SADC Parliamentary Forum, Pan-African
Parliament, Inter-Parliamentary Union and BRICS Parliamentary
Forum.
Also, House Chairperson, Parliament must create a permanent
plan for where these delegates to these bodies must report
because currently there is no co-ordinated way to receive
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reports from these bodies. We must seriously consider the work
of Parliament Budget Office, hon Buthelezi, even with
legislation that empowers National Assembly to amend the
proposed Budget of the Minister of Finance. It has been more
than 10 years now that Parliament has not made a single
amendment to the Minister’s Budget. Instead of serving as a
unit of National Treasury in Parliament, Parliamentary Budget
Office must conduct an overall assessment of the role of
Parliament since the Money Bills and Related Matters of 2009.
There must be a clear offer of practical and implementable way
forward to make Parliament’s role in the budget proactive
instead of processing money that departments are already
using.
We know that the current leadership of the ANC does not have
neither the capacity or the competence to implement these
ides, hon Papo. They insist on employing cadres to top
positions of managing Parliament and it is the reason why this
institution is rendered ineffective. This is why we will never
trust the recent appointment of the Secretary to Parliament.
Furthermore, we reject the Bill and Mr Cyril Ramaphosa must
step down. He is a money launderer and he is a criminal. He
must step down and we will come for him, he will never have
peace in this House. I thank you.
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Ntlangwini, please
wait there because the hand was up before you ... Hon Papo,
please! Hon Radebe, you are up.
Mr B A RADEBE: Yes, hon House Chairperson, I am rising on Rule
35, the member has cast aspersion on the President of the
Republic by insinuating that he is a money launderer ...
[Interjections.]
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: He is; they found money under his ...
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Ntlangwini, please
do not respond to him, I am here. Hon member, you know that
you cannot do what you have done without a substantive motion.
Will you please withdraw what you have just said?
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: What must I withdraw, hon House Chair? That
he is a money launderer?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): To say that the
President of the country is a money launderer.
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: And I must withdraw what from that?
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): What you said.
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: My conscience will not allow it.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, Please.
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: My conscience won’t allow it.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Okay, may you please
leave the House then? Thank you very much. [Interjections.]
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: I won’t. He will see; his day is coming.
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Please leave the House.
I am not going to call any speaker before you leave.
Mr A H M PAPO: Chair?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members.
Order! Yes, hon Papo what is ... [Interjections.]
Mr A H M PAPO: House Chair, but this is unacceptable. The
member just made a statement calling the President a money
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launderer and a criminal, and there is no court decision on
that matter. She does not want to accept ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I said she must leave
the House. [Interjections.]
Mr A H M PAPO: She says she won’t ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No, it is me who will
see to that. Don’t worry about it. [Interjections.]
Mr A H M PAPO: ... and then she does not say to us ...
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Papo, I asked the
hon member to leave the House, please. If there are other
things you would want to deal with, it is fine, that is how
far I can go. Hon member, please leave ... [Interjections.]
Hon members, we proceed and call on the IFP and recognise hon
Singh. [Interjections.] Hon Sonti, please mute that
microphone. If you want to raise a point of order I have
monitors in front of me, you can raise your hand. Don’t shout
in the microphone. Hon Singh, please proceed.
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Mr N SINGH: Thank you very much, hon Chairperson. When hon
Ntlangwinini said, lastly, I didn’t think that she will last
so long, three minutes or so, after, lastly. But anyway, I
want to agree with her on one issue, and that is, we as hon
Members of Parliament have really got to take our oversight
work very seriously, especially when it comes to the amendment
of budgets. We have the power in terms of Financial Management
Act, and we are not exercising that power.
Also, hon Chairperson, we really need to look at the time-
table that’s in the Act, so that we can amend the time-table,
and give the Minister of Finance and the portfolio committee
enough time because, on most or all the Budget Votes, we come
here, complaining of the fact that some departments, hon
Speaker, are underfunded, and that they need more money for x
and y, while we have the power for those amendments, yet, we
are not doing enough. I hope that you will lead us in that,
hon Speaker, as we move forward.
Much unprecedented is becoming a familiar term these days. We
certainly live in interesting times. Firstly, with the advent
of the COVID-19 pandemic and the President’s announcement of
government’s decision to lock down South Africa on 26 March
2020, then we had the national state of disaster which was
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lifted as from 5 April 2022. We also know what happened after
that, hon Chairperson and Speaker, it necessitated a
parliamentary scramble and deep-dive into the 4th Industrial
Revolution and Internet of Things, IoT, as Members of
Parliament, support staff and government officials grappled
with the challenges of remote work forums and physical, hybrid
Parliament sittings.
Then at the beginning of this year, the parliamentary precinct
was tragically set aflame. The inferno taking firefighters
three days to bring under control and finally extinguish. The
extent of the structural damages is still uncertain, but I
think it is safe to say that it will be years before the
damaged part of the precinct, which houses the NCOP, Old
Assembly Chamber and National Assembly, will be operational
once again. As ever, our thanks must go to the parliamentary
staff contingent, parliamentary IT and the Table staff, who
have had to adapt to the new physical working environment and
ensure the smooth flow of parliamentary plenaries yet again.
Also, we have the problem of public inaccessibility and this
is something that we need to address. Hon Chairperson, With
Covid now on the way to becoming endemic, we must be
investigating options to reopen in some physical form as the
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people’s Parliament. All political party leaders should be
consulted and notwithstanding the fact, hon Speaker, that even
in this Chamber, we can’t pool the Chamber. We have to have
Parliament that can house 400 people, and we must consider
seriously across the road as we have been talking about, even
if it means to steal a structure, which is simply permanent.
I believe that, that structure can still be used after
Parliament has rebuild the existing burnt building, because we
have always been short of space here in Parliament for
committees, etc. I also think that we must have a more
permanent structure across the road. Chairperson and Speaker,
it is also essential that the staff contingent is up to date
for Parliament committees etc. Also, I think that we must have
a more permanent structure across the road. It is also
essential that we make sure that the staff contingent is up to
date.
In this respect, we welcome the appointment of the new
Secretary to Parliament, as we did before, Mr Xolile George,
as well as thank Ms Tyawa for her term as Acting Secretary,
under difficult circumstances, and we look forward to greater
stability in the management of Parliament, as the institution
moves forward. Through you Chairperson, I would also like to
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thank the Speaker, for the forum you created, the leaders of
political parties were invited to make inputs, I think that is
something that we must look into moving forward.
However, you’ve mentioned, hon Speaker, through you, Chair,
the question of the Zondo Commission, and yes, it is true,
that in the report of the Zondo Commission were shortcomings
of the failings of Parliament that were pointed out, and we
really need to apply our minds on how we are going to correct
these failings which are our failures. One of the failings,
hon Speaker, is the question of oversight of the Executive,
and when one looks at the Constitution, we’ve been talking
about this, some other parties as well, and my leader, Prince
Buthelezi, adnoisem, that every department should have
oversight.
But there’s one department from 1994 that does not have
oversight, one Vote, and that is the Vote of the Presidency.
Now, I know that in couple of days’ time, we are going to do
the Vote of the Presidency, and you are going to hear this
being said by the hon members that, there has to be an
oversight of that Vote because, Treasury allocates funds, and
in terms of the Constitution, we have to oversight every
department. So, hon Speaker, I hope you can lead us in this
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regard, to make sure that the Rules Committee or the said
committee, must prioritise that.
Finally, chairperson, according to a recent survey by
AfroBarometer, only 27% of South Africans state that they have
faith in Parliament. Democracy and the institutions that
uphold democracy appear to be in decline and not just in
Africa, trust in democratic governments is slipping the world
over. This presents us not with a challenge, but rather with
an opportunity to turn the tide, take restorative action, and
rebuild our faltering institution to its former glory of 1994.
The IFP supports the Budget Vote. Thank you.
Dr C P MULDER: Hon Chairperson, hon Speaker, colleagues, today
we are dealing with the budget of Parliament. Now, Chapter 4
of the Constitution deals with Parliament, and section 42
quite clearly states the following that, Parliament consist of
two Houses, the National Assembly, that’s us. Therefore, what
are we supposed to do? We are elected to represent the people.
As the members of Parliament, of the National Assembly,
specifically, are the elected representatives of the people.
We are supposed to be following the intentions of the
Constitution.
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We are supposed to choose the President, we are supposed to
provide a national forum for public consideration of issues,
we are supposed to pass legislation and we are supposed to
scrutinise and see the Executive’s action. Then as the second
House, the NCOP, what did they do? That house represents the
provinces. So, with these two Houses, all the people in the
country are represented, the people themselves or the
provinces.
On the other hand, Chapter 5 deals with the Executive. The
Executive, on the other hand, is not representatives of all
the people. The Executive, obviously, are the representatives
of a specific political party or the governing party. That’s
why Parliament is so very important, because we as the two
Houses, represent the people. My concern, Chairperson, and hon
Singh just now referred to that, in terms of the perception of
the public, is not that all positive about our institution.
I’m sorry to say that, I think our institution, to a certain
extent, is in a crisis.
Parliament has not been spared from the budget cuts introduced
by the National Treasury across the board. In the 2021-22
financial year, Parliament’s allocation was reduced by
R265,7 million, and in 2022-23 in that financial year, it will
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be further reduced by R338 million. Without adequate funding,
Parliament cannot do its job. Obviously, it’s a tragedy that
so many billions of rands were lost and stolen in the last 28
years. We could have made very good effective use of that.
Hon Speaker, you and a number of colleagues referred to the
fire that devastated Parliament. We don’t have a normal
parliamentary term. The first, basically, over three years,
were absolutely overshadowed by the Covid pandemic, so, it
didn’t make it possible for us to meet, and now, we don’t have
a precinct and we don’t have a building. We all know how the
Parliament is supposed to function, in terms of debates, in
terms of colleagues meeting one another in the corridors, and
now, those kind of things are not happening.
Unfortunately, it didn’t happen by incident, Parliament was
not struck by lightning or something. It actually came out,
but I think that there’s a lot of negligence perhaps involved.
Colleagues referred to the capacity of this building, 120
members, and it is not filled up. It is our own fault that it
is not filled up. Parties can take decisions tomorrow at the
Chief Whip’s forum and just implement that when we come back
that, every party takes its responsibility for their members,
and make sure that we’ve got the capacity in here.
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Hon Speaker, you referred to Parmed, and I think from my
perspective, I think that those remarks were unfortunate. The
Executive offered is represented at Parmed by way of the
Deputy Speaker that acts as a Chairperson of the board of
Parmed, and I also find it quite strange that members referred
to former members the way that they do. It is not the question
of if, it’s a question of when all us will also become former
members.
Just remember that, when we just refer to former members this
and former members that, we are also to become former members
at some stage, remember that. Remember that, sometimes we
don’t retire, but politics retire you. Hon Speaker, the fact
of the matter is that, Parliament has got to play a specific
role, and it was mentioned in the number of Bills that were
passed etc. Obviously, we have to do much better as the
institution, and we can do that. Hon Speaker, you referred to
a number and gave us a myriad of so many breakdowns of so many
questions and so many Bills etc.
But the real question is the quality of what’s happening in
here, in terms of the quality of the bites. Are we doing the
biting of one another, the quality of replies, etc. I have
argued in the past that we should bring back the whole thing
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of interpellations, interpellations are very nice active
debates, where we debate issues with one another, I think that
is also very important.
The credibility of an institution and the credibility of us as
Members of Parliament, is not going to happen by itself. We
will have to turn the perceptions about politicians, about
Members of Parliament and the institution around, and that’s a
challenge for all of us. Thank you, Chairperson.
Mr S N SWART: House Chair, the ACDP considers Parliament’s
Budget Vote against a number of significant challenges. The
first relating to the impact of COVID-19, and, in our view,
the limited role that Parliament was able to play – or no role
– on the disaster management regulations and the extension of
the State of Disaster for more than two years.
It is highly regrettable that Dr Groenewald’s eminently
reasonable Private Member’s Bill to give Parliament a far
greater say was not agreed to by this House, on what the ACDP
believes are flawed legal arguments. The sad part is that
certain of the State of Disaster lockdown regulations have now
been included under the National Health Regulations, quite
wrongfully, in our view. What is even more concerning, is
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that, yet again, Parliament had no say over the contents of
these health regulations.
Now, let’s make it clear once again, the ACDP remains opposed
to mandatory COVID-19 vaccines, and we commend church leaders
who have rejected those health regulations saying it is
“vaccines through the backdoor”. Pastor Ray McCauley has said
“we will not subject ourselves and the people we lead to a
vaccine mandate and deny them the right to worship”. The ACDP
agrees.
Clearly, the second issue, Madam Speaker, relates to the
devastating fire, and yes, we agree with you that we need to
find a venue and to make sure that we are all back at work. If
everybody else is working, schools are reopening, then we as
parliamentarians need to set that example. And yes, I took a
walk now to the NCOP section – it is looking beautiful – and
we do believe the billions will need to be spent to rebuild
this Parliament in terms of the heritage legislation.
The ACDP has also noted the Zondo Commission’s findings
against Parliament – obviously there will be more findings in
the final report. And whilst there were a number of brave MPs
across the political divide, hon Mazzone will know, Team South
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Africa, that took on and exposed during the Eskom Inquiry, who
did their best to expose state capture and corruption, clearly
far more could have been done, and hence the apology from the
Speaker to the Zondo Commission at that time.
Speaker, the ACDP looks forward to Parliament implementing
those corrective measures from the commission’s report with
regard to areas where Parliament was found to have missed out
on its oversight function, and, of course, where we will now
have to exercise an oversight looking at those areas where the
executive also failed, as set out in the Zondo Commission.
Speaker, what I would also like to raise is an issue I’m
continually concerned about, and that is the tardy response of
Parliament from the executive to Constitutional Court
deadlines, placing enormous pressure on us. We welcome the
fact that some measures have been put in place to avoid that.
Speaker, you referred to the Electoral Commission, but far
more needs to be done so that we don’t sit with this pressure.
Lastly, the ACDP would like to thank the Speaker, Deputy
Speaker, House Chairs, and all staff members for their hard
work and commitment. It has not been an easy time following
the fire, but we greatly appreciate all that you do to ensure
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that Parliament carries out its constitutional duties. Thank
you so much and well done with the clean audit. I thank you.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: House Chair, throughout the last term, we
took to this podium, to decry the governing party’s use of
this august institution. To ... [Inaudible.] ... to subvert
checks and balances on executive powers. Regrettably, our
appeals to the governing party, to ensure that this august
House carries out its constitutional duties effectively, fell
on deaf ears. It was therefore no surprise for us when the
Zondo Commission found that Parliament failed in its oversight
duty during the state capture period.
Speaker, we have written to you. My party leader has written
to you asking that a process be set in motion to inquire and
to investigate the allegations that are made against the
President where he is alleged to have laundered money and have
attempted to evade tax. I thought that after the realisation
of ... [Inaudible.] ... that South Africa is on the brink of
becoming a failed state was enough to get us to back away from
the ... [Inaudible.] ... However, after listening to our
colleagues making all sorts of irrational arguments in defence
of the President in respect to these allegations that relates
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to the theft of more than 4 million US dollars hidden at his
farm, I felt a strong sense of déjà vu.
We have to be seen as this House to be acting in a manner that
is similar to exactly what we did whenever there were
allegations against former President Zuma in this House.
Otherwise, as our soft stunts on President Ramaphosa in light
of recent allegations reeks of hypocrisy. For our country’s
sake, this House needs to ensure that President Ramaphosa is
held to account for the saga and that he is sanctioned
appropriately for it. Failure to do so, will lend credence to
the perception that his government rules according to a mantra
which was once attributed to former Venezelan President Hugo
Chávez which is; “For my friends, everything; for my enemies,
the law.”.
It is important that as Parliament as the ... [Inaudible.] ...
of the South African Constitution, that we also deal with the
perception that the country fails while enriching the
political elite and the politically connected few. Speaker,
the Private Members Bill’s process is very cumbersome. It has
to be streamlined and simplified in order to prevent executive
dominance in the introduction of legislations that are before
Parliament. This is important in order for us to be able to
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ensure that Members of Parliament who are able to introduce
legislations that speaks to the challenges that face our
people on a daily basis.
It can’t be that our role as Members of Parliament is only to
merely just comment on the legislations that are introduced by
the executive, which then undermines the role of Parliament as
a legislative body. We keep on talking about the need to
capacitate Parliament when one considers all the requests for
inquiries and investigations that are required to be done by
Parliament. It is important that Parliament is given the
necessary capacity to be able to enquire and conducts whatever
investigations and to make recommendations that it can be
implemented. Thank you. [Time expired.]
Mr X S QAYISO: Hon House Chairperson, let me take this
opportunity on behalf of the committee to thank the
contribution of the outgoing Acting Secretary to Parliament,
as we also welcome the newly Secretary of Parliament, Mr
Xolile George. The ANC enters this debate cautious of the fact
that a Budget Vote of Parliament is about whether the
transformation project of Parliament is on track and whether
we have the necessary financial resources to take that project
to a higher level over the next 12 months.
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The ANC orientation therefore is to transform the state
machinery to serve the course of social change. This is true
for Parliament as it is central to contributing to the
democratic transition of our country as a tribune of the
people. We are tasked to ensure that through our oversight and
legislative role, there is a speedy roll out of meeting the
needs of our people. The appropriate legislation that speaks
directly to the needs of the people and will benefit them,
must be passed. Our role is one that which understand that
oversight is a continuous act which there is a reinforcing
working relationship between the legislature and the
executive, ensuring that the ANC government policies and
programmes are implemented effectively and efficiently.
In assessing the work of the administration, its performance
and programme – we are guided by the Parliament Strategic Plan
2019 – 2024. Assessing the performance means that we need to
use indicators of which nine of the 12 indicators that
Parliament use are new. They do not have a benchmark
established to measure them.
What we can say is that the strategic leadership and
governance programme has witnessed far greater progress.
Coherency from the Office of the Speaker, has been extremely
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helpful and support structures that surround the Office of the
Speaker have provided the necessary support.
Over the past year, we have expressed ourselves at length on
the matter of the Parliamentary Budget Office. So, what is
lacking is a reference group to advice the executive authority
on areas of work, programmed, research, etc given that it
reports to the executive authority.
Equally, the governance structures of the Parliamentary Budget
Office need to demonstrate far greater leadership and
guidance. We welcome the appointment in the Treasury Advice
Office and are encouraged by the recent advisory support
coming from this office.
With regards to the core business programme of Parliament, we
can only assess its performance in broad terms. The
methodology of assessing performance in Parliament is not a
qualitative way of measuring performance. Instead of using a
conventional way of measuring performance, we are given a
model that is deeply flawed that of member satisfaction. Until
we move back to a methodology that is standard qualitative way
of assessing performance all the 100% achieved, etc will
remain very hollow.
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Hon House Chairperson, more attention needs to be given
Parliament, to ensure that members master the subject matter
that they have oversight responsibility for. This means
Parliament needs to identify courses that will build
capability of committee members in their oversight. It is
insufficient for Parliament, in its core business programme to
say and I quote, “We seek to enhance oversight capacity.” when
the evidence thereof is lacking.
With regard to advisory research and information services, we
welcome the legal support that has been given to committees,
we want to suggest that far more time be given to legal
interpretation. More advice in the area of legal
interpretation is necessary, Not just legal explanation. Since
this is well litigation against transformative legislation
that we need to pass is contested.
Hon House Chairperson, we have just emerged from the ANC
caucus mid-term review where we discussed at length, moving
Parliament to an enhanced oversight model. An enhanced
oversight is about a qualitative shift in the oversight
approach to focus on outcomes and impact assessment. This is
done through the use of appropriate oversight tools and
indicators; for the ANC the nonattainment of policy outcome
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and poor impact can be traced to the weakness of performance
information and reporting.
This lead to oversight structures being more reactive than
proactive due to lack of relevant and strategic information.
The fact that oversight is largely after the fact result in
adequate monitoring and performance.
The 2017 54th National Conference of the ANC on the oversight
role of Parliament noted that and I quote:
The oversight role of Parliament will be re-examined so as
to ensure an ANC progressive and consistent agenda is
implemented in Parliament. We want to ensure consistency
and robustness of Parliament’s oversight role. In addition
to exercising oversight over the executive, Parliament must
also turn its attention to matters affecting broader
society.
The critical question is how we move oversight to outcomes and
impact assessment. The legislative sector oversight model is
inadequate in this regard. Two things need to happen;
Parliament must move towards an outcome-based reporting system
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and not just target-based on client satisfaction. Currently,
we have a Parliament system geared towards outputs.
In addition, enhanced oversight means oversight over
implementation which should be outcome and impact orientation.
One of the current matters before Parliament, which have an
impact on the budget of Parliament are the proposed amendments
of the Financial Management of Parliament and Provincial
Legislatures Act. We are very cautious that this process has
been going on since 2017 and that the Speakers Forum has an
established position. Whilst the matter was referred in a
sitting of the National Assembly, to the Standing Committee on
Finance, who originally initiated the Bill back in 2005, the
implications for oversight requires that the Joint Standing
Committee on Financial Management of Parliament needs to be
involved. It is not the Standing Committee on Finance that has
oversight authority on the performance of Parliament.
On the budget of Parliament, we have stated it before that the
current arrangement is not only unsustainable and demeaning to
the institution of Parliament. We cannot be treated as a Vote
of funds, rather Parliament must be part of determining its
budget internal priorities and alignment of its needs.
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There are specific line items that create a shortfall in the
budget of Parliament. This needs to be addressed before the
February budget next year when the estimates of national
expenditure are tabled. These matters are not with the control
of Parliament, but sit as line items in the budget of
Parliament without Parliament having a say over the matters
and are a major cause of the shortfall in the budget of
Parliament.
They are Parmed Medical Aid Scheme, travel entitlements of
former members of the executives, loss of office gratuity and
political party allowance. We therefore call on for the speedy
resolution of these matters with the National Treasury to
enable Parliament to have a budget that addresses the actual
needs of the institution, members and the people of South
Africa. The ANC therefore supports this Vote. Thank you.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon House Chairperson, in order for
Parliament to function effectively, it needs resources. For
that reason, the NFP will support the Budget Vote tabled here
today.
Now, hon Speaker, I am glad you are here, allow me to thank
you for the conducive environment you created for us to engage
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each other on matters of concern and how we can work together
more effectively. However, also allow me to thank particularly
the table staff, the Office of the Secretary, the legal
department, the information and communication technologies,
ICT, member’s facility and of course not forgetting Parliament
travel, I think they all under the current circumstances have
performed exceptionally well.
However, hon Speaker, I want to raise a concern. Millions of
rand are spent on oversight. I think we raised this matter
with you the other day. What happens, we go on oversight
visits, we identify problem areas, we come back, have reports
in this House, table them, debate them, adopt them and then
what? It goes into the bin. Absolutely nothing happens after
that. There is no consequences and accountability. The
question that arises: What is the purpose of an oversight
visit, if there is going to be no accountability?
Hon Speaker, if you notice, year in and year out, it is the
very same repeat offenders that are failing us and we do not
enough about it. We can have Ministers coming and going. But
there are no consequences for director-general, DGs, deputy
director generals, DDGs, chief financial officers, CFOs and
all of them that are responsible for implementing these
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programmes and projects. We continuously give them bonuses and
handshakes and praise them, but they are the ones are actually
failing us. Before a Minister settles in, it is almost time to
move on.
Hon Speaker, smaller parties have a very difficult time in
Parliament. I am not saying that larger political parties must
have their time reduced and their opportunity, no I am not
saying that. I am saying it is not acceptable that in an
entire term, a smaller party cannot have an opportunity to
have a motion tabled.
Hon Speaker, I am saying it is not acceptable that a smaller
party in an entire term might not even have an opportunity to
pose a question to the President.
Under multiparty democracy, we all should be given that
opportunity. I want to reiterate; I know on the proportional
representation system, that larger parties get the benefits
and I am not asking you to reduce them.
Hon Speaker, I want to touch on one sensitive matter. The
Public Service Commission has pronounced and found Mr Sithole
guilty. A person, your staff in this Parliament committed
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suicide because of the way he was treated and so many other
staff members. What is so important about this particular Mr
Sithole that you even go on and extend his contract? The NFP
support this Budget Vote. Thank you very much.
Mr S M JAFTA: Hon Chair, this budget comes at a time when the
role of Parliament in our Constitutional democracy is under
immense scrutiny. Criticism of the lack of urgency in passing
legislation, appointing a permanent chief financial officer,
CFO, and Secretary to Parliament, including modernising the
work of Parliament, has come in handy.
However, the real questions are whether Parliament has whipped
the executive on policy implementation? Two, rooted out the
apartheid legacy through the passing of transformative
legislative reforms? Three, improved public participation in
the law making process? Four, obtained unqualified audits over
successive years? Five, met its deliverables as contained in
its strategic plans? Six, improved its Rules, structures and
systems and build-in mechanism to ensure that public views are
reflected in the lawmaking processes? These questions are not
exhaustive.
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Our response to these questions is that Parliament has not
performed dismally. Constitutional challenges to legislation
passed by this Parliament have receded. Parliament continues
to obtain unqualified audits. Parliament oversight visits to
Eskom, the SABC and the other SOEs have stood Parliament in
good stead. Parliament has also passed progressive legislation
to push back the frontiers of poverty. Just recently, we
endorsed the appointment of the new Secretary to Parliament.
We must, however, mention that Parliament must modernise its
oversight model to respond to the growing demands of the
Fourth Industrial Revolution.
Parliament must also improve its petition function to leverage
the views and concerns of our people. Parliament must also
look at adjusting the time allocated - as the hon Shaik Emam
said – to the smaller political parties. The last time an
adjustment was effected was 13 years ago under the hon Max
Sisulu. We, however, hon Chair, support this Budget Vote. I
thank you.
Mr S GWARUBE: Chairperson, the marker of success for
Parliament should never just be about the number of plenary
sessions held; the frequency of public meetings which are
often hijacked by political parties who bus in their
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supporters; or even the amount of times Ministers come to read
their responses to prepared questions in the House. It has to
be more than that. The task is far greater for two reasons.
One, South Africa has a painful history of racial segregation,
which was legislated for in this very Parliament. Parliament
under the apartheid government rubber-stamped the most
abhorrent laws against black South Africans. This shows how
powerful – for good or bad – this institution can be. The
second and perhaps the most urgent reason is the situation
South Africa finds itself in. It requires a legislature that
is up to the task.
IsiXhosa:
Abantu abanamisebenzi ...
English:
... in their millions. Over 50% ...
IsiXhosa:
... abantu bahleli kwimeko yentlupheko kwaye abakhuselekanga
kwiindawo abahlala kuzo. Simane sisiva iinkcukacha-manani
zobugewu ngokungathi akubulawa bantu okanye akudlwengulwa
bantu. Yonke le nto, yenzeka phantsi korhulumente oxakeke
kukubhukuqana besilwela izikhundla. Urhulumente ...
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English:
... that has presided over the greatest money heist under
state capture since the dawn of democracy. All of these things
require a strong Parliament that does not relegate itself to
simply being a captive audience for the executive when they
bother to show up. The task is greater. The work is urgent and
incredibly important. While the institution has managed its
finances well and obtained clean audit outcomes, the yardstick
of its effectiveness lies with the people.
Even as Parliament lies in ruins after the devastating fire
earlier this year, the work of the two Houses cannot depend on
the existence of two buildings. In fact, now is the time to
intensify our efforts to get Parliament working. Now is the
time to rebuild both literally and figuratively. Many have
said the fire that gutted these Houses of Parliament is a true
reflection of the state of the institution after it has been
hollowed out over decades. The teeth of Parliament have been
plucked out systemically and left a shell that has so much
unused potential.
The drafters of the Constitution and the Rules of Parliament
imagined an institution that would have the muscle to deal
with the most pressing issues of the day. We have been
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equipped with oversight mechanisms such as the Rules
Committee, parliamentary inquiries and capacity to draft laws
that will benefit the people of the country we are meant to
serve. However, over the past 10 years, Parliament has passed
40 Bills which were brought before it by ordinary members
versus the 312 which were brought by the executive. This
signals a crisis – not of capacity – but political will.
A functional Parliament would jump swiftly to deal with the
findings of the Zondo Commission. Having failed to prevent the
looting of billions of public money, we should make sure that
those who are guilty of this crime are held to account. We
should not have a Chair of Chairs in Mr Cedrick Frolick who
has serious allegations hanging over his head for his role in
state capture, still actively presiding over the work of
Parliament until he is cleared.
We should act with speed to demand answers from President
Ramaphosa regarding the millions of rand that were found on
his property. Questions about how that much money was allowed
to be stored on his farm; how a suspect accused of this theft
was dealt with outside the criminal justice system; and
whether the SA Revenue Service, Sars, is aware of this money
are questions which should be coming from this House – should
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come directly from this House. No sitting President should
simply go about his business and Parliament sits idly. We
should be summoning the Minister of Police, Bheki Cele, to
come and account for the skyrocketing crime statistics in our
country. The bloodbath in our communities is something this
House should concern itself with. Minister, I am glad you are
here and you are listening because it is not a laughing
matter. This institution should lead the charge in the fight
against poverty and unemployment. The very people who sent us
here to represent them are suffering under the crushing
pressure of a cost of living crisis and rising joblessness.
The solutions for growing the economy and cushioning South
Africans against global factors must come from this House.
Sound financial management of Parliament will never make up
for the lacklustre attitude of MPs towards the work that ought
to be done. The institution can run as smoothly as it wants
and still South Africans will be left wondering where their
elected representatives are. Where are they representing us?
This is why these budget processes cannot simply be another
tick-box exercise embedded in the parliamentary calendar. This
is why I implore all of you that we need to put party-
political interests aside when it comes to the work that we do
here. Let us approach issues of accountability and government
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delivery as a united Parliament so that we can have some hope
of being able to rescue South Africa from the clutches of
ruin. The oath that we took, the oath of office that every one
of us here took requires us to be able to put those political
differences aside. And when we walk through those doors, we
make sure that we are here and we are here to represent the
people of South Africa. And that we approach the work that is
meant to be done here with an amount of impartiality that we
need. We thank you. [Siyabulela] [Applause.]
Mr B A RADEBE: Thank you, hon Chairperson, the Speaker of the
National Assembly, the Ministers present, the members of this
August House, compatriots of the Republic, the ANC welcomes
the opportunity to engage in what is ... [Interjections.]
IsiZulu:
Mnu T M Langa: Awukhiphe lelo gama.
Mr B A RADEBE: ... referred to as the vote funds for
Parliament. This vote is about us public representatives
deployed to Parliament by our respective parties. To do our
work, we are guided by our political principals. In the
National Assembly we are led by the Speaker and her Deputy.
What underpins their leadership is the support structures
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around them and in the concept of this road how that support
structures are resourced. This takes us to the primary
problem. Who determines the budget of Parliament? How is it
determined? Are we involved in its determination and what
should be the mechanism to determine the Parliament’s budget
and thereafter the oversight needed to determine that the
budget is properly utilised?
We come into this Budget Vote debate welcoming the leadership
provided by the Executive Authority, but mindful of the fact
that we face an ongoing contradiction that doesn’t strengthen
our work but weaken it. Why do I say that? It is because when
you looked back to the financial year of 2009-10, the budget
of the government was R835 billion and that of Parliament was
R1,5 billion. Fast forward to 2022, the budget of the sitting
government is R2,16 trillion and the budget of Parliament is
2,6 billion. It shows that the budget of government has almost
tripled, but that one of Parliament has hardly doubled. So,
how will the Parliament execute its duty if it does not have
required resources to ensure that there’s oversight in
Parliament. That’s why I said that we are in serious trouble
as the Parliament of the Republic.
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In the ... [Inaudible] ... of what we are tasked to debate
today we have some time raised the challenges of Vote 2. What
is clear is that the favoured top slicing model is a
protracted discussion that is not taking us anywhere, even
though we have had different parties raising it. This
principle that is correct but after 11 years of trying this
route spending more time on it is just wasting our time.
Rather, we need a Parliament determined allocation that does
not come from the vote funds, but a dedicated appropriation
that has been determined by Parliament itself, not a mechanism
that is currently used where there is a discussion between the
administration of Parliament and the Executive Authority.
After that, the administration of Parliament deals with the
technical aspect of allocation with the National Treasury. The
outcome is what we have in Vote 2 in the estimates of national
expenditure with very little explanation. What clearly is
unsatisfactory and calls upon all of those who have
consciousness and vision to make the necessary proposal. We
have priorities as Parliament. The first priority is public
participation; the second one is enhanced oversight of
Parliament. Programming requires increased resources, research
and innovation and in particular constituency work that we
have long spoken about.
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When you look at the current budget - we have to be honest.
The programme of legislation and oversight is underfunded by
R58 million. In the next financial year, it will be
underfunded by R71 million. In the outward 2024-25 should be
underfunded by R121 million. It means that the core function
of Parliament is going to be compromised. That’s why the ANC
itself in its Mangaung Conference made a clarion call that the
legislatures should be strengthened as part of building a
developmental state. Secondly, the legislatures oversight
model and capacity should be improved. So, how will that
capacity be improved if the budget of Parliament is declining
the way it is happening now? What is very important here are
the key fault lines in the provision of funding of Parliament.
How should the parliamentary determination budget not be a
technical process.
Clearly, Parliament needs a new mechanism to determine the
budget. A new mechanism in which we are ... by the budget
should play a role in this determination and having a thorough
growing process of the determination of its ... prior to its
tabling. Specifically, the current budget of Parliament is
determined through the consultation with the National Treasury
and the Executive Authority. This creates a challenge in the
budget process. Greater attention needs to be given to the
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alignment of the budgetary calendars of both Parliament and
the National Treasury.
On Pamerd issue, the reality is that there has been a 200%
increase in the main member contribution since 2008. Yet the
actual increase in the salaries of members is a fraction of
that since 2008. Therefore, in real term, members get a worse
deal every year and the matter is just compounding itself. It
is grossly unfair for Parliament to have to find an obligation
related to the previous members of the provincial
legislatures. Parliament must provide the National Treasury
with a breakdown of the Pamerds responsibility so that the
National Treasury can engage with the provincial legislatures
about their responsibilities.
What is very important around this the issue of political
party allowances. The problem statement lies in where the
political party allowances funding responsibility should
reside. Currently, it rests with Parliament and there are
contradictions in this. Besides, where it should lie the
actual internal ... formula has to be reviewed so that the
strength of each and every party is recognised in the process
of allocation.
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In conclusion, the unsustainable expenditure level coupled
with the structure and composition of the Parliament vote of
funds, added to the key risks and constraints in the budget
reductions, all require major intervention between now and
2023. The Joint Standing Committee on Financial Management of
Parliament must be ceased with this going forward. We look
forward to see a qualitative change on the quarter reports
that will be tabled going forward. Without change, we are an
unsustainable growth. What is very critical with a current
budget is that the very cost to employment is underfunded. It
is underfunded on its own. It means the staff that we have,
the allocation that we are getting from Treasury is not enough
even to cover the salaries of the current staff. Remember very
well, any developmental state becomes a developmental state
because of the staff it employs. If you have the staff, which
is not happy you are not going to get the quality service.
That’s why as Parliament, we must engage with the Treasury and
ensure that the Select Committee on Appropriation deals with
these issues before the next budget of Parliament of 2023.
Chair, what is very important I have to respond to certain
issues which were raised here. Firstly, I have to respond by
congratulating the Speaker for being part of the Task Force to
resolve the issues of Ukraine. Hon Speaker, you come from the
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African National congress. In 1955 the ANC was very clear that
there shall be peace and friendship throughout the whole
world. It is our duty as this Parliament to ensure that the
conflicts of Ukraine are resolved in a peaceful way. That’s
why you have been appointed to be part of that Task Team.
What is also very important is that the Joint Standing
Committee on Financial Management of Parliament invited the
South African Heritage Resources Agency so that we deal with
the processes which must take place when a heritage site like
Parliament has been affected. It was very clear, according to
the current law, even if we want to move the first thing which
we have to do is to restore that building - it’s our
responsibility. Even before we start discussing the issue of
the movement of Parliament from the other issues, we must have
the resources to ensure that the Heritage is restored to its
former glory. That’s what the Heritage Resources Council has
... guided us around.
On the issue of Mme Mazzone, I think that we had very good and
hardworking staff in this Parliament. That’s why it is really
rather very unfair to hear you say that there are people who
don’t know what they are doing. They are there only to take
food back home. What I want to advise you on, firstly, these
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staff members of Parliament they are the first to come to
Parliament in the morning, and the last to leave. Then, these
good audit reports which we see coming out are the results of
the collective staff members of Parliament. I think that we
must give them the respect which they deserve.
What is coming through the Opposition about the Private
Members Bill is very critical. There’s one Bill, which I have
really appreciated in the past. That one which came from the
ACDP with the former member, hon Dudley. She came with a Bill
which ensured that the fathers have paternity leave when their
wives are going to give birth. That part of the Bill was
endorsed by Parliament just like that. It fitted to the
strategic plan of the entire government. That there shall be
equality and there should be support for the females of this
country. So when you come up with a bill that is adversarial,
which is not going to help, we are not going to support it.
As the political parties here we have a mandate from the
various conferences. We have a programme which we must
execute. So when you come up with a programme which is not
going to be in line ... when you are going to come with a
programme which you are not going to campaign for with the
other parties, your bills are going to be shot down. I am
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making another example in the previous Parliament there was a
Committee ... [Inaudible.] dealing with the extension of that
debt. It came from the Committee of Trade and Industry, it was
done and dusted because it was in the interest of everyone in
the Republic. I would like to advise the Opposition, please if
you’ve got a bill, please market yourself properly. Go to the
people you must not be adversarial when dealing with these
issues.
On the issue of UDM itself ...
IsiZulu:
... ngiyacela, UDM phuma ezintweni ze-ANC.
English:
The ANC knows what it is doing. I request that even the
President of the Republic has got a right to due legal
process. He said he is going to co-operate with the law
enforcement agencies. I don’t think that as this Parliament,
we must put the cart before the horses. Was he charged? Was he
arrested? So, why bring him here when these things are still
ventilated there at the court of law? You know very well that
a person has got a right to protect himself and cannot
incriminate himself.
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What is also very important here is the issue of private
member’s bill on our side. Remember that when Ronald Reagan
ensured that the sanctions were not imposed against apartheid
South Africa, it was the Senator Dellums Bill, which ensured
that the United States congress imposes sanctions against
South Africa. So, we know the importance of the private
member’s bill but you must not be hostile when dealing with
that. Just market your bill properly and then you will get
your support.
What I want to say is that on the side of the DA, hon Gwarube
when you say that we must put our difference aside, I think
that we must walk the talk. It cannot be double talk. ...
[Inaudible.] ... Because how can you expect us to support you.
The first thing you do, you attack the members of the ANC - it
cannot be right. The issue here is that this Parliament must
work as a unit but part of working as a unit is to treat each
other with respect because Ubuntu begins there.
IsiZulu:
Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo.
Sesotho:
Ke a leboha. [Thank you.]
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The SPEAKER: Chairperson, thank you, hon members. And I want
to thank all members who participated in this debate. And I
particularly want really to express a word of gratitude to
those who have supported the vote.
Allow me, hon members, to respond to some of the issues which
have been raised, just by way of clarity.
Starting with hon Mazzone. The matters which you have raised
in relation to getting all members under one roof and the
options we are pursuing of a modular structure, are matters
which we have presented to you. I know that these are matters
which are being dealt with at the Chief Whips Forum and I also
am aware that I have briefed you at least at the level of the
Programming Committee. It’s not as though we are sitting and
we doing nothing about finding alternative venue. Obviously,
you are aware that we had been given various options. With,
for instance, we have the Cape Town International Convention
Centre, CTICC, we had the city hall, we had Cape Town ...
okay, whatever it is.
But the point is we’ve had to think through this issues and at
this point now I’m aware that the technical team, which is
dealing with the matter, is weighing options on building a
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modular structure, which modular structure will be built
within the parliamentary precinct, in that the area which has
been identified belongs to Parliament. Now, obviously, if we
are going that route, there are certain things which need to
be done, which need to be considered and even the cost of
building that modular structure.
So, it’s not as though, hon members, nothing has been done
about finding space for ... for instance, if I may make an
example, when I was asking for more information on this
building of the modular structure, how long will it take etc.
Believe you me, you have three, four different companies, one
will tell you they can do it in four and half months, the
other one can do it in 13 months, the other one will do ...
and clearly, the team itself, as led by Mr Xaso, is working
very hard because I want a structure yesterday and they are
trying as much to do their best so that also ... it’s easy
when we talk here to say sometimes, never mind the money we
need to come here, we need to be together, but we’ve equally
have to account to you about the money which we spend.
The other matter which I think I should raise is you have
raised a matter on the appointment of parliamentary staff. I’m
optimistic that once the Secretary of Parliament begins to
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work here, that he will be able to immediately assist, ensure
that management made vacancies, in particular, are filled in.
On the matter of the snap debates. Hon members, I don’t know
what exactly we mean by people being supressed when they have
requested a snap debate. It is because all the snap debates,
which you have requested, not just the DA, the last snap
debate, there’s another snap debate as well, which I have
approved before. I have approved snap debates. The issue has
been amongst ourselves as whippery, as programming, but as for
the executive of Parliament, as Speaker, I have approved snap
... in fact there hasn’t been delays in approval of snap
debates. What we have had is people need to find time and
ensure that the Programming Committee is able to find an
appropriate date for that snap debate, which really has
nothing to do with a decision which a Speaker is unable to
take. I just thought I should clarify that.
The issue of researchers. Of course, the institution will
continue to improve research and content capacity. I am aware
of this, you’re not the only one who has raised it; I do know
also from the ruling party that you hear people saying there
are limitations with regard to research capacity and this is a
matter which is being attended to.
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Hon Ntlangwini, I’m sorry that he is not here. Because I’ve
the addressed National Programming Committee. And about the
issue of introducing legislation, introduction of legislation
by opposition parties, if I may say, because this is the issue
now. We’ve discussed this matter and we’ve not only discussed
it, even at the recent meeting last week, I actually made a
proposal that there is a need for us to have a workshop, come
together so that we can have an appreciation of one another,
the thinking thereof, just to keep one another’s brains on
this matter of introduction of legislation, and we agreed
about that. So, there’s no one who has stopped anyone, but we
are saying let’s have a proper process, let’s understand one
another, it is in fact the responsibility, too, of the
executive to introduce legislation. We equally have a right to
introduce legislation, but, of course, what it means is that
over the years the executive has been more proactive in
introducing legislation. Because of the nature of the work
they are doing they are forced, they are compelled to do it.
So, let’s talk about this.
I did mention that there is a study which was conducted by
Parliament in 2019. It is referred to as the socioeconomic
impact of that study, which amongst others talks to this very
issue of what would be the socioeconomic implications of, for
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instance, moving Parliament from Cape Town to Pretoria. That
report is there and all that is required now is to avail the
report to the Chief Whips Forum so that that forum discusses
the matter amongst yourselves and you agree on the way forward
on these matters.
Hon Singh, I’ve heard you in relation to the request that the
Rules Committee must give attention to increased oversight
over all votes presented in Parliament. Obviously, you are
correct, it is not the first time the matter is raised, it is
a matter which has been raised before, for the last couple of
years and I’m sure this is a matter which we will discuss and
even consider, because it has become a pressing matter.
You’ve also raised a matter which relates to the Rules
Committee in the processing of the Zondo Commission report.
Obviously, hon members, we said once the President receives
that report, it will take him about four months to prepare a
plan of action on the report. And he will present the report
to Parliament and once the is present to us it will obviously
go to the Rules Committee and the Rules Committee will then
advice the different committees on how to handle the issues.
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Talking about the Zondo Commission, I think I may as well
respond to what hon Swart has raised, which is renewed
emphasis on our oversight function, in particular in
processing the Zondo Commission report; you are correct, we
agree. I think all of us agree about that. Not only do we
agree, hon members, I think we should also be honest enough to
say all of us that we have taken initial steps to deal with
the issues contained in the Zondo report. Firstly, we have a
dedicated team right now which is sifting from the two reports
which are with us, report number 3 and report number 4, who
are identifying all of these areas which will require the
attention of the Rules Committee. However, what will help us
even more is the receipt of the final report, which will be
your last report, which the President will give to us together
with the plan of action. So, I do agree with you but
everything and everything will be dealt with in a very
transparent manner, issues will be discussed at the Chief
Whips Forum, they will be discussed in the Programming
Committee, they will be discussed in the Rules Committee.
Allow me hon Singh to just comment on the matter of ParlMed
because I think you did not understand what I’m raising. I am
not complaining and I’m not critical of the fact that we have
former members in the medical aid. The issue I’m raising is
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... which, for the first time, Parliament opened my eyes, I
wasn’t aware of but I am fully aware of the amount of monies
which Members of Parliament part with in order to contribute
to ParlMed. However, the issue at hand is ParlMed covers
Members of Parliament, former members, judges and so on. If
you consider those numbers, you talking about a very small
number of people; I don’t know how many people we talking
about. And, therefore, you rely on the contributions of those
people, even to subsidise those who are retired. Nothing wrong
with retirement, we are also going to retirement, we’ve long
been here, we part of the furniture now, you and I know this,
we are old, we not young anymore and we have to retire. And,
of course, by having this medical aid we are equally
investing. ParlMed is like an insurance. We are investing
because beyond our lives here, we will need a medical aid. But
the issue I’m raising is this, that maybe it is time for us
consider opening it up so that it competes with all other
medical aids so that members do not have to pay the kind of
money they are paying for now. I know, for now, one member
pays about R6 000-R7 000, one member, one. Two members, you
pay up to R10 000-R11 000. In fact, my suspicion is that
sometimes they even look now at the profile of the member and
so on. We pay a lot of money, it ... [Interjections.] ...
don’t ... protect me. Talk, don’t scream. Talk to me, don’t
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scream. I just thought I needed to clarify that, because all
of us, very soon, are going to be former members and when we
are former members we will still need these benefits. However,
it shouldn’t be at the detriment of the serving Members of
Parliament. That is all I am raising. ParlMed, by the way, we
all know, for many of us who have been here, is a very good
medical aid, very good one to invest in.
You’ve raised, hon Mulder, the issue of the ... you know ...
public perceptions. And I do agree that indeed as an
institution we need to regain the trust of ordinary citizens
of South Africa. And I believe that it is us here who should
discuss the how part. How do we ensure that we regain the
trust and the confidence of the people of South Africa?
You then raised a matter of interpellations. I’m aware that
the subcommittee on review of the rules is discussing that
matter and in fact, one of the issues raised is possibility of
going back to interpellations. So, I just thought I should
clarify that.
Hon Kwankwa, I don’t know. Hon Kwankwa, I though you are aware
of the fact that you have, even as a party, written me a
letter, which I received last night. You have written me a
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letter which relates to the matter which has been out in the
public, related to the robbery at the President’s place. Hon
Zungula has also written me a letter and all of you are
proposing the way forward on how to handle that matter. So, I
don’t understand now how the matter gets raised here at this
point because you’ve made proposals, they are on the table,
they are being considered. Not only that, then, of course, the
President has also indicated that he is ready to cooperate
with the law enforcement agencies. So, whatever it is that we
do, at the end of it all, we must not have parallel processes
running. But also, there shouldn’t be a stampede, because once
there’s a stampede, in Xhosa we say ...
IsiXhosa:
... niza kuyibhuda ...
English:
... I don’t know how to ... maybe Somyo can translate that. I
don’t know ... can the interpreter say ...
IsiXhosa:
... uza kuyibhuda ...
English:
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... what does this mean? You will ...
IsiXhosa:
... bhuda ...
English:
... it, you’ll mess it up, hon Gwarube. True, if you rush into
something, ...
IsiXhosa:
... uza kuyibhuda ...
English:
... or you will go crashing in the wall. So I thought ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Speaker, that’s
injury time ...
The SPEAKER: Oh, thank you, hon Chairperson.
Chairperson, I just wanted to say with regard ... hon Gwarube,
you’ve raised the same issue of matters of people implicated
in the Zondo Commission. You are so much in a hurry ... but
I’ve re-given you reports to say that where we are able to act
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we’ve started acting. But there is no way we can rush into
everything before the final report comes to us from the
President. President, himself, still does not have that number
5 report, as far as I know. [Time expired.] Thank you very
much, hon members. And thank you ... I’m sorry that I could
not ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): You have expanded
your injury time, hon Speaker.
The SPEAKER: Thank you, thank you.
CONSIDERATION OF RECOMMENDATION OF A PERSON TO FILL A VACANCY
ON ELECTORAL COMMISSION - REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON
HOME AFFAIRS
Mr M S CHABANE: Thank you, House Chair. Ministers, Deputy
Ministers and members of the House, it gives me great pleasure
to Table the Report on the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs
on the filling vacancy of a commissioner of the Electoral
Commission. The Independent Electoral Commission is a state
institution supporting constitutional democracy established in
terms of Chapter 9 of the Constitution. Its independence as an
autonomous body is guaranteed by section 181(2) of the
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Constitution and section 3(1) one of the Electoral Commission
Act.
The Independent Electoral Commission executive leadership is
composed of five members; one of whom must be a judge, an
executive member of the Independent Electoral Commission must
be a South African citizen and must not have a high party
political profile. The executive members of commissioners of
the Independent Electoral Commission are appointed by the
President of the Republic upon recommendation by the National
Assembly following nomination by a committee of the National
Assembly. The Commissioner of the Independent Electoral
Commission is appointed for a period of seven years unless the
President of the Republic, on the recommendation of the
National Assembly, extend the term for a particular period.
The then Commissioner of the Independent Electoral
Commissioner, Mr Glen Mashinini, who was appointed as the
chairperson, his term of office expired on the 16 April 2022.
The then acting Chief Justice of the Republic of South Africa,
Justice Zondo, in his capacity as the chairperson of the
panel, established in terms of section 6(3) of the Electoral
Act, invited nomination for a vacancy for members of the
Electoral Commission. The panel comprised of the Chief
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Justice, the chairperson of the SA Human Rights Commission,
the chairperson of the Commission for Gender Equality and the
Public Protector.
The initial deadline for the nomination was 18 February 2022.
In respond to the request by some organisations, the then
acting Chief Justice extended the deadline for nomination by
seven days from the 18 February to 25 February 2022 to allow
interested parties who may not have been aware of the
advertisement to submit their nominations. Forty-eight
applicants were received. The panel shortlisted 12 credible
candidates, however, three candidates withdrew leaving the
panel with nine candidates.
The panel conducted interviews and in no particular order, the
candidates were referred to Parliament for consideration and
these are the names; Mr Bekebeke, Advocate Chaplog-Louw,
advocate Lambani, Ms Maharaj, Mr Mashinini, Dr Mbete, Ms
Mbomvu, Mr Thango and Mr White. The Chief Justice submitted a
list of these candidates and their curriculum vitae to the
National Assembly for consideration to fill a vacancy in the
Electoral Commission. The matter was referred to the Portfolio
Committee on Home Affairs on 14 April 2022 for consideration
and reporting to the National Assembly.
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The committee then met on the 10, 20 and 31 May 2022 to
deliberate and consider the candidate recommended by the
panel. Following the extensive deliberation by the portfolio
committee, the committee recommended that the House approve
the nomination of Mr Mashinini for appointment to fill the
vacancy in the Independent Electoral Commission. Thank you,
House Chair.
Declarations of vote:
Ms T A KHANYILE: Thank you, Chairperson. Chairperson, during
Mr Mashinini’s term as Independent Electoral Commission
Commissioner, he has overseen an unprecedented decline in
voter turnout. In 2016, 50 million people voted and this
number declined to 12 million in 2021. This is the clear
indication that the Independent Electoral Commission is
failing to improve voter turnout. Numerous reports have
indicated that young people do not have appetite to vote and
the Independent Electoral Commission does not have a tangible
plan to attract our young voters other than the use of social
media platforms and television, TV channels, which is not
yielding fruitful results.
The registration of people of ages between 18 and 35 keeps
declining in each and every election. Chairperson, young
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people are the future of this country and it is very important
that we find ways to encourage them to vote. They need to play
a meaningful role in deciding who should govern this country
or represent their interests. In the recent Independent
Electoral Commission appearance before the portfolio
committee, the Independent Electoral Commission firmed that
when they visit schools for voter education they do not co-
ordinate with local Independent Electoral Commission officers
to ensure that those interested to vote are registered
immediately. This is definitely a missed opportunity.
To this day in various voting districts, VDs, Chairperson, we
keep witnessing people whose addresses do not appear on the
voters roll, or that they are incorrectly captured. In the
recent 2021 local government elections, we have witnessed
voters being turned away because they have been moved from
voting districts they have been voting from since 1994. Some
were moved to different voting districts outside their wards
and it is kilometers away. Chairperson, because of this
conduct by the Independent Electoral Commission, most voters
who did not appear did not have means to reach newly allocated
voting districts and as a result they have abandoned their
opportunity to take part in elections.
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Some did not vote as they saw no need to vote for a ward
councilor who is in a different ward and won’t be able to
address to their service delivery issues. Chairperson, during
Mr Mashinini’s term, who has just been recommended right here,
there has been a lack of accountability within the Independent
Electoral Commission. Issues of irregular conduct by some of
the Independent Electoral Commission presiding officers remain
unresolved up until the voting and counting has been finalised
and nothing is being done to address the raised issues. This
has also caused a huge decline in electoral commissions by the
community.
According to barometer survey conducted in 2021, it reflects
that communities trust in the Independent Electoral Commission
has declined from 69% in 2014 to 36% in 2021. The Independent
Electoral Commission appeared before the Portfolio Committee
on Home Affairs on numerous occasions and reiterated their
readiness to hold local government elections. The allegedly
successful by-elections that were held during the COVID-19
were used as a reference to emphasise their readiness.
However, Chairperson, there Independent Electoral Commission
has delivered the worst elections. This follows the 2019
national and provincial elections washable in debacle.
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In the 2021 local government election under Mr Mashinini’s
watch, the Independent Electoral Commission failed in its most
basic task to manage voter registration the election in such a
way that every person entitled to be registered to vote can do
so after assuring Parliament that the voter management devices
were in order and tested and that the Independent Electoral
Commission was ready for the election. This turned out not to
be the case. Failures in this system resulted in around
140 000 voters who had changed their registration finding
that, in fact, not been changed and being unable to vote on
the election day.
Furthermore, the Democratic Alliance received complaints from
150 voting stations on election day, where the voter
management device failed, causing long queues and leading
voters to leave the queues in frustration. The Democratic
Alliance objects to the recommendation of Mr Glen Mashinini as
an electoral commissioner and we reject this Report. I thank
you.
Ms L F TITO: Thank you, House Chairperson. Chairperson, we
note with dismay the reappointment of Mr Glen Mashinini back
into the Electoral Commission as a commissioner. Mr Mashinini
was first appointed as a commissioner by the Independent
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Electoral Commission in 2015 and was later appointed by
President Zuma as chairperson of the Independent Electoral
Commission later that year.
Over the past seven years, Mr Mashinini has proven himself to
be a dependable cadre of the ruling party and under his watch
the Independent Electoral Commission has failed dismally to
uphold democratic principles of the country. Under his watch,
the Independent Electoral Commission has not conducted any
significant electoral education in the country, such that
today over 10 million eligible voters in the country are not
registered to vote. The voter turnout of those registered to
vote is declining at a dramatic rate and most of these
happened under his watch.
His reappointment is part of entrenching undemocratic
principles of the ANC and in preparation for 2024, when the
ANC is likely to lose the power. The Independent Electoral
Commission is being prepared for stealing elections because
the ANC ... [Inaudible.] ... to the bone with the ANC
loyalists will do whatever the ANC requires of it. The ANC is
not prepared to lose power. We condemn the use of
constitutional institutions in the pursuit of narrow political
party aspirations. Amongst those recommended by the Chief
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Justice and Head of Chapter 9 institutions for appointment
were young and capable leaders who are not tainted by
political party factionalism.
Amongst those people, was a capable Dr Sithembele Mbete, whose
name was ignored for no particular reason. We want to warn Mr
Mashinini that we will be watching him like a hawk. We reject
this appointment. I thank you, hon House Chairperson.
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Hon House Chairperson, the 2021 local
government elections were by far the most difficult elections
for the Independent Electoral Commission, IEC, since the dawn
of democracy. The Independent Electoral Commission suffered
brunt damage. There were problems with the newly purchased
voting machines. Many young people and first time voters were
left dissolutioned and heart broken when they could not vote
because their details did not appear in the voters’ roll. This
despite the fact that they have registered to vote. We also
saw a record low voter turnout and low participation amongst
the young in this elections.
However, for some it was good elections like for the IFP Today
we control 9 municipalities. The majority of the
municipalities are in KwaZulu-Natal. Our main task now is to
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retain these municipalities through hubs of good governance
and to build municipalities which will put our citizens first.
The 2024 national and provincial elections will be a complex
hill to climb for the IEC. The Independent Electoral
Commission faces budget cuts which will negatively impact its
ability to execute its mandates. The Independent Electoral
Commission also has to contend with the growing impact of
disinformation and how it impacts the outcomes of our
elections. It was therefore important for us to find a
candidate to fill this vacancy that could help the IEC to
address all these challenges.
The IFP wishes to thank all those who applied for the vacant
position of the IEC commissioner. We thank them for being the
citizens that care about strengthening our democracy and our
future. Our caucus, in particular, expressed support for
Dr Sithembile Mbete who is a senior political lecturer. She
was also a researcher at the National Planning Commission and
she contributed to the drafting of the National Development
Plan. She is passionate about reforming the Public Service,
electoral reform and she is an anticorruption and youth
leadership activists. She would have been great at attracting
young people to the next elections. It must be noted however
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that all those who were proposed before this vacancy were
suitably qualified. Any of the candidates would have added
value to the IEC and each offered their own strength and
expertise.
The IEP would like to once more pledge our support to the
entire IEC team and its future endeavours of delivering free
and fair elections. We know that elections are determined by
those who show up. We also therefore pledge our support in
turning around the low voter turnout we saw in the past
elections as well as the continued no participation of our
youth in elections. This is ultimately a matter that goes at
the very heart of our democracy and it would require joint
intervention and solutions. The future of our country is
indeed in the hands of our South African voters. Let us
encourage our citizens, especially our youth, to use this
bowel. The IFP supports this report. I thank you.
Ms T BREEDT: Chairperson, let me start by saying that the FF
Plus will not be accepting these recommendations and will be
objecting to this. We have seen during the local government
elections, LGE, 2021 the multitude of problems that the IEC
have faced. There are challenges if you look at the court case
and the voters’ roll that we still have not adequately
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addressed. Going into 2024 and the challenges that this
commission faces we need to hold this commission to the
highest standard. We need to ensure that our commissioners are
of the highest standard and integrity and therefore the FF
Plus will not be supporting this. I thank you.
Mr S N SWART: House Chair, the ACDP shares the concerns that
have been expressed by the other speakers. We also experienced
difficulties in the last elections although we did as a party
grew. We do appreciate the fact as well that there were a
number of suitable candidates and we are concerned about the
elections that were run under the chairmanship of the then
Glen Mashinini. And so, we regrettably would not support the
nomination. I thank you.
Mr S M JAFTA: Hon Chair, this is the most clear-cut report in
the jurisprudence of this House. The AIC will support the
report on the appointment of Mr Glen Mashinini. Mr Mashinini
has led the IEC in good state. He is concise and precise. He
is meticulous and exhibit personal integrity. He masters
specific the abstract and the nebulous. Since his appointment
on 14 September 2015, international observers carrying out
election observer missions have given the Electoral Commission
positive reviews for hosting free and fair elections in South
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Africa. His pattern of positive reviews has been consistent
since 1994.
Mr Mashinini not only took on the button, but also wielded it
to the greater heights. We have no doubt that his experience
on electoral matters which spans over 20 years will continue
to enrich the work of the commission. The collective work of
Mr Mishinini, including that of the chief electoral officer Sy
Mamabolo and a host of other commissioners, has been
exceptional. His appointment must be given a green light. We
then support this report, hon Chair. I thank you.
Mr K B PILLAY: Hon Chairperson, members of the executive and
legislature, compatriots, comrades and friends on various
platforms, good day. The ANC rises in support of the report of
Home Affairs on filling the vacancy in the electoral
commission. After decades of disenfranchisement of the black
majority in South Africa the ANC declared that the achievement
of the right to vote will signal the achievement of full
citizenship and legal equality for all declared that elections
will be a fundamental element of a democratic political life
in our country, and that government will maximise popular
participation and be accountable and responsible to the
people. The ANC further declared that all elections that are
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central, regional and local level shall be conducted by an
independent electoral commission which shall enjoy freedom
from governmental and political control.
Chairperson, I must first thank all candidates for availing
themselves for this position and I must place on record the
credibility of all these candidates. The Independent Electoral
Commission is an important constitutional institution which
supports democracy. It has been instrumental in ensuring free,
fair and credible elections in the country. To this end, the
ANC supports the name of Mr Glen Mashinini to fill the vacancy
in the commission.
Mr Mashinini served as the chairperson of the IEC and has been
in executive management in general and electoral management in
particular a significant part of his working career which
spans to some 30 years. Mr Mashinini’s electoral management
experience started when he became part of the funding
executive management team which was essential in establishing
the IEC in 1998. He was responsible for the conceptualisation,
business processes and organisational design as well as
institutional building with intricate human resources
recruitment, programme management and management systems for
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the delivery of elections which have received international
acclaim.
Mr Mashinini’s impressive CV reflects that he jointly
established the highly respected consultancy which provided
the electoral advisory and management services across the
continent including in Nigeria, Mozambique and Angola. In
2012, having served as the deputy chairperson of the
Presidential review committee on state-owned entities, Mr
Mashinini was appointed as a special project advisor to the
President of the Republic of South Africa to help implement
the recommendations.
The COVID-19 pandemic touched every aspect of our lives
including the systems of government. The IEC instituted a
formal inquiry to ascertain whether a free and fair election
was possible under COVID-19 conditions. A commission which was
headed by former Deputy Chief Justice Dikgang Moseneke enquiry
heard evidence from the Department of Health, public experts,
leaders of political parties and electoral research
institutions. In the report delivered on 10 July 2021, the
enquiry concluded that the forth coming municipal elections
could not be held in October 2021 in a manner that was free
and fair and without infringing the rights to life, bodily and
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psychologically integrity and access to health care as
required by the Constitution and related legislations. The
commission accepted the recommendations, adopted the report
and caused the full report to be published.
The election date was proclaimed by the Minister responsible
for local government after consultation with the commission.
On 06 Aguste 2021, the commission launched a direct
application out of the Constitutional Court seeking a deferral
of the elections. On 03 September 2021, the Constitutional
Court handed down an order in which it dismissed the
application by the commission to defer the municipal elections
to a date beyond 1 November 2021. This is key. The commission
was effectively left with 46 days in which electoral
activities needed to be undertaken.
Traditionally, an election timetable provided for no fewer
than 76 days. Notwithstanding all these challenges, the IEC
delivered free and fair elections under the leadership of Mr
Mashinini. Some of the key innovations of the LGE 2021 include
the procurement of a new voter management devices ahead of the
elections, new generation technology which allowed to enhance
voter registration and monitoring voter participation in real
time, revamped public website for improved navigation and
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communications, a public reporting of disinformation on social
media in association with media monitoring Africa, the
introduction of e-learning for training election staff, the
introduction of a new and a revamped voter registration system
and an introduction of e-recruitment for internal staff
appointment as well as those of electoral staff.
We are aware of some of the challenges faced by the IEC which
include, and not limited to, the continued decline of the rate
of participation in elections. We hope that the IEC will work
harder to address these challenges. Voter participation is
important for democracy and we will continue playing our
oversight role in this and other matters. We believe that the
leadership, practical experience and institutional memory of
Mr Mashinini will be good for the IEC.
Chair, notwithstanding the fact that there is a need to
address participation of young people in the elections, a
contributing factor to his appointment will be one of a person
who has experience in elections and running elections. Except
to hear that the conduct of the presiding officers or any
other complaints about the IEC has never been formalised and
has never followed the processes or charges and we hear
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members time and again bringing up issues about the IEC and
presiding officers.
Recommendations should be made based on merit and not just
short down because it is supported by the ANC. I am quite
disappointed that the hon Tito would speak about elections
being stolen and bring a name to this sitting of the House.
However, the EFF chose to abstain from this item when it came
to voting in the portfolio committee.
Chairperson, as this House is aware, the Portfolio Committee
on Home Affairs is currently deliberating on the Electoral
Amendment Bill and we affirm that Mr Mashinini will be best
placed to be able to take the process of its implementation
further with his extensive experience in elections. We wish to
thank all the candidates who availed themselves for the
position and showed patriotism. We wish Mr Vuma
Glenton Mashinini the best of wishes for the future and look
forward to have him back in the driving seat of the IEC. The
ANC supports the report. I thank you.
Question put: That the nomination of Mr V G Mashinini to serve
on the Electoral Commission be approved.
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Division demanded.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members, in
terms of section 6(2)(c), of the Electoral Commission Act, Act
51 of 1966, the person nominated for appointed to serve in the
Electoral Commission must be approved by a majority of members
of the Assembly.
Although a division has not been demanded, members are
required to record their support through a motion. The bells
will be rung for five minutes for the procedure to take place.
The House divided.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members, the
Speaker has determined that, in accordance with the Rules, a
manual voting procedure would be used in this division.
Firstly, in order to establish a quorum, I will request the
Table to confirm that we have the requisite number of members
physically present in the Chamber and on the virtual platform
to take the decision. We are now proceeding.
Party Whips will be given an opportunity to confirm the number
of their members present and indicate if they vote for or
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against the question. A member who wishes to abstain or vote
against the party vote may do so by informing the Chair.
AYES – 190: [TAKE IN FROM MINUTES].
NOES – 100: [TAKE IN FROM MINUTES].
The majority required in terms of section 193(5)(b)(ii) of the
Constitution,1996 (Act No 108 of 1996) not being obtained,
decision of question postponed.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON COOPERATIVE
GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS ON DRAFT NOTICE ON
DETERMINATION OF REMUNERATION OF PUBLIC OFFICE BEARERS OF
COMMISSION FOR PROMOTION AND PROTECTION OF RIGHTS OF CULTURAL,
RELIGIOUS AND LINGUISTIC COMMUNITIES.
Mr F D XASA: Thanks hon Chairperson, Ministers and Deputy
Ministers, hon members. On the 8th of March 2022 the Portfolio
Committee on Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs
considered and adopted this report on the President’s Draft
Notice on determination of remuneration of independent
constitutional institutions in respect of the financial year
2020/21 with specific reference to the Commission for the
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promotion and protection of cultural, religious and linguistic
communities.
The commission falls within the oversight ambit of the
portfolio committee. On 22 April 2021 the House referred the
President’s Draft Notice to the portfolio committee for
consideration and report in terms of section 14(1) of the CRL,
Cultural, Religious and Linguistic, Rights Commission Act of
2002.
The Chairperson, Deputy Chairperson, and other members, are
entitled to the annual salary of such allowances or benefits
are determined by the President and approved by the NA.
In respect of the 2020/21 financial year the independent
commission for the remuneration of office bearers recommended
0% annual salary increment for all office bearers of the
independent constitutional institutions. Taking into account
the country’s fiscal condition, the State Wage Bill as well as
the impact of public office bearers salary increment on the
fiscus and the country’s general economic condition.
Having taken this into consideration as well as the serious
economic challenges facing the country, the President has
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expressed intend to determine 0% salary increment for all
public office bearers of independent constitutional
institutions.
The portfolio committee supports and approves the intended
determination by the President in relation to the public
office bearers of the CRL Rights Commission. I thank you
Chairperson.
Declarations of Vote:
Mr C BRINK: Thank you hon Chairperson. Given the fiscal and
economic conditions of the country, the 0% increment
recommended in this report is appropriate and so the DA
supports the report.
While we are speaking about the CRL, I would just like to add
that the DA has raised concerns about revelations from the
Zondo Commission, in particular the minutes of ANC cadre
deployment committee meetings that suggest that the
appointment of CRL commissioners have been dictated by party
political basis. That is certainly the suggestion of those
documents and the DA looks forward to this Parliament dealing
with those allegations and other findings and revelations of
the Zondo Commission.
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The CRL is a constitutional body in terms of the chapter 9 of
the Constitution and its integrity must be preserved.
With that having been said on this particular report, it has
the DA’s support. Thank you Chairperson.
Mr A MATUMBA: Thank you Chair. Chairperson, the state of our
economy is the worst it has been in its recent memory. The
cost of living is getting out of hand for many people who do
not have the luxury of having millions of dollars stashed
inside mattresses in their farms.
For this people who do not have the protection of the state
and the immunity from prosecution and media protection when
they commit crime have no other choice but to endure the
difficulties of a collapsing economy.
In April 2021, the President sent a notice to Parliament that
for the 2020/21 financial year, he was recommending that there
be no increment for the Chairperson, Deputy Chairperson and
others working in the institution for the advancement of the
Constitution such as Commission for Cultural, Religious and
Linguistic Rights.
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While using the state of the economy as an excuse, an economy
that the President himself and his cabal of thieves have
destroyed, the President does not have to worry about is next
plate of food because his mattresses are stuffed with millions
of rands.
It is the public servants and those working tirelessly in
pursue of the defect dreams of our freedom who must bear the
brunt of the mismanagement of the economy caused by the ruling
party.
The austerity measures imposed by government have never worked
and they will not start working today. While we are not
bothered much by the refusal to grant salary increment for the
management at this institution, we want ordinary workers to be
remunerated fairly.
These measures are not going to have any significant impact
effect on the ability of the state to manage funds any better
than what they are doing now.
The biggest threat to the financial stability of this country
is the deeply embedded in the corruption of the ANC and its
anti-ability to grow economy. Thank you Chair.
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Ms S A BUTHELEZI: Thank you Chairperson. The CRL Rights
Commission fulfils a critical function in terms of the
Constitution and is mandated to promote and develop tolerance
and national unity within cultural, religious and linguistic
communities.
As Parliament, we need to actively monitor the performance of
this institution and ensure that it meets its performance
targets and fulfil its mandate to the people of South Africa.
Although the IFP acknowledges challenges of budgetary
constraints on the commission’s mandate, it is vital that the
commission improves on internal controls as the issue of
irregular expenditure has been a consistent weakness of the
commission in previous financial years.
On consideration of the Draft Notice from the President
concerning the determination of salaries and allowances of the
members of the independent constitutional institutions, in
relation to members of the CRL Rights Commission, the IFP
supports the President’s determination.
The Independent Commission for the Remuneration of Public
Office Bearers recommended to the President a 0% annual salary
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increment for all office bearers of the independent
constitutional institutions.
This recommendation was made in consideration of the serious
economic challenges faced by our country and the President has
followed this recommendation.
The economic reality of GDP, growth rate of only 2,2%
projected for 2022 and a government debt of R4,3 trillion
places our country in a very precarious position. In light of
this reality, the President’s determination is justified.
However, the IFP wishes to stress the importance of ensuring
that this important institution meets its performance targets
despite budgetary constraints. We cannot allow this
institution to fail, it is dutess to the people of South
Africa. Now more than ever, we need to actively work together
to find peace and national unity between cultural communities
and the commission’s mandate in this regard is vital.
After consideration of the report of the portfolio committee,
the IFP accepts the portfolio committee’s report and
recommendation. Thank you Chairperson
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Mr G G MPUMZA: Thank you, hon House Chairperson and hon
members. The historic mission of the African National Congress
has been and will continue to be the liberation of blacks in
general and Africans in particular from all forms of
oppression unleashed by colonialism and apartheid and its
vestiges. The democratic back in 1994 had given a democratic
movement and those who want to reverse the legacy of apartheid
colonialism a beach-head to pursue a nonracial, nonsexist and
truly democratic society. The Constitution in its founding
principles recognises that one of the legacies of apartheid
colonialism is the diminishing of the status of the indigenous
languages. The Constitution further in accordance with its
Bill of Rights guarantees all the rights to use their
language, participate in the cultural life of their choice.
Therefore, section 31 of the Constitution is expressed that a
person’s belonging to a cultural religious and linguistic
community may not be denied the rights with other members of
that community to enjoy their culture and practice their
religion and use their language and to form and join and
maintain cultural religious and linguistic associations and
other organs of civil society.
For the state, hon House Chairperson, to achieve its
developmental objectives, it must mobilise all sections of
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society including religious, cultural linguistic communities
towards social cohesion and harmony. This is the mandate that
has been entrusted to the cultural religious and linguistic
rights commission. We expect to make a contribution through
programmes aimed at promoting social values principles that
are in line with the democratic spirit and intention of the
Constitution. In order to achieve this, we must understand the
need for a properly resourced commission including the
development and the retention of human resources that will
drive ... [Inaudible.] ... and programmes in this institution.
We note the report by the Independent Commission for the
remuneration of public office-bearers which recommended to the
President that 0% annual increment to office-bearers in the
independent constitutional institutions be implemented. The
report cited, among others, reasons being the challenges in
the fiscus and the country’s general economic outlook. We are
all aware that salaries increment in the public service have
been a contagious issue between government and public sector
unions. The working class has been asked to make compromises
in light of this conditions. It will be insensitive to the
plight of the workers if we agree to an increase in salaries
of public representatives such as that will be bordering on
classifying the public into stratus.
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The Budget Review and Recommendation, House Chair, report
identified some of the challenges which have engulf the ...
[Inaudible.] ... Rights Commission and these include irregular
and fruitless expenditure of 925 000 underexpenditure and
expenditure of the value of R4,3 million and other optimal
performance shown by an 81% achievement of targets. Of greater
concern to the committee has been the worst performance is
recorded under the conflict resolution programme, which is at
the core of the commission as function. We also noted that
there are some challenges which have been cited in the Budget
Reviews and Recommendation such as the lack of internet
connectivity which hamper the commission’s ability to reach
rural communities, lack of provincial and municipal offices,
work phases which hampers outreach work and the general lack
of resources which impede the commission from realising its
broad mandate.
The limited resources in the commission should be deployed
towards addressing these challenges and funding programmes
which maximise the impact of the commission in our communities
and strengthening social cohesion. House Chair, the ANC
supports the report and its recommendations. I thank you.
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Report adopted and Draft Notice on Determination of
Remuneration of public office bearers of Commission for
Promotion and Protection of Rights of Cultural, Religious and
Linguistic Communities accordingly approved.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON DEFENCE AND
MILITARY VETERANS ON BUDGET VOTE 26 DEPARTMENT OF MILITARY
VETERANS
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON DEFENCE AND
MILITARY VETERANS ON BUDGET VOTE 23 (DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE)
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF JOINT STANDING COMMITTEE ON
INTELLIGENCE ON BUDGET VOTE NO 8: NATIONAL TREASURY (STATE
SECURITY)
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF JOINT STANDING COMMITTEE ON
INTELLIGENCE ON BUDGET FOR DEFENCE INTELLIGENCE
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF JOINT STANDING COMMITTEE ON
INTELLIGENCE ON BUDGET FOR SOUTH AFRICAN POLICE SERVICE -
CRIME INTELLIGENCE
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CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC
ENTERPRISES ON BUDGET VOTE 10: PUBLIC ENTERPRISES, AND ON
STRATEGIC PLAN AND ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLAN FOR 2022/23 OF
DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TOURISM ON
BUDGET VOTE NO 38: TOURISM
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON WOMEN, YOUTH
AND PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES ON ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLAN
(BUDGET VOTE 20) OF DEPARTMENT OF WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS
WITH DISABILITIES FOR FINANCIAL YEAR 2022/23
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON MINERAL
RESOURCES AND ENERGY ON 20022/23 ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLAN AND
BUDGET OF DEPARTMENT OF MINERAL RESOURCES AND ENERGY (VOTE 34)
AND ENTITIES
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND
CORRECTIONAL SERVICES ON ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLANS 2022/23 OF
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT, NATIONAL
PROSECUTING AUTHORITY, LEGAL AID SOUTH AFRICA, SPECIAL
INVESTIGATING UNIT, PUBLIC PROTECTOR SOUTH AFRICA, SOUTH
AFRICAN HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION AND INFORMATION REGULATOR, AND
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BUDGET VOTE 25: JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT FOR
2022 MTEF
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HIGHER
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND INNOVATION ON BUDGET VOTE 35: SCIENCE
AND INNOVATION 114 TUESDAY, 7 JUNE 2022]
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON EMPLOYMENT
AND LABOUR ON BUDGET VOTE 31: EMPLOYMENT AND LABOUR, STRATEGIC
PLAN OF DEPARTMENT AND ENTITIES 2021/22 – 2024/25 AND ANNUAL
PERFORMANCE PLAN OF DEPARTMENT AND ENTITIES 2022/23
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HOME AFFAIRS
ON VOTE 5, ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLANS AND BUDGET OF DEPARTMENT
OF HOME AFFAIRS, ELECTORAL COMMISSION AND GOVERNMENT PRINTING
WORKS
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT ON
BUDGET VOTE 40: TRANSPORT AND STRATEGIC PLAN AND ANNUAL
PERFORMANCE PLAN 2022-23 OF DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TRADE AND
INDUSTRY ON BUDGET VOTE 39: TRADE, INDUSTRY AND COMPETITION
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CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON
INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND COOPERATION ON BUDGET VOTE 6:
INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND COOPERATION
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON SOCIAL
DEVELOPMENT ON BUDGET VOTE 19, ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLANS OF
DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT AND ENTITIES FOR 2022/23
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON
COMMUNICATIONS ON BUDGET VOTE 30: COMMUNICATIONS AND DIGITAL
TECHNOLOGIES
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON
COMMUNICATIONS ON BUDGET VOTE 4: GOVERNMENT COMMUNICATION AND
INFORMATION SYSTEM
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON WATER AND
SANITATION ON BUDGET VOTE 41, ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLAN OF
DEPARTMENT OF WATER AND SANITATION AND ENTITIES FOR 2022/23
FINANCIAL YEAR
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND
CORRECTIONAL SERVICES ON BUDGET VOTE 22: CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
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CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND
CORRECTIONAL SERVICES ON ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLAN FOR 2022/23
OF THE OFFICE OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE AND VOTE 27: OFFICE OF THE
CHIEF JUSTICE
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HIGHER
EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND INNOVATION ON BUDGET VOTE 17: HIGHER
EDUCATION AND TRAINING
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON SPORT, ARTS
AND CULTURE ON BUDGET VOTE 37: DEPARTMENT OF SPORT, ARTS AND
CULTURE
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE,
LAND REFORM AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT ON 2022/23 ANNUAL
PERFORMANCE PLANS AND BUDGET OF DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE,
LAND REFORM AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND ENTITIES, VOTE 29
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON FINANCE ON
BUDGET VOTE 8: NATIONAL TREASURY.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON COOPERATIVE
GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS ON 2022/23 ANNUAL
PERFORMANCE PLANS AND BUDGETS OF DEPARTMENTS OF COOPERATIVE
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GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS AND ENTITIES CONSIDERATION
OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT
ON BUDGET VOTE 36: SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT FOR 2022/23
FINANCIAL YEAR
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC WORKS
AND INFRASTRUCTURE ON BUDGET VOTE 13: PUBLIC WORKS AND
INFRASTRUCTURE
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC
SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION ON ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLANS 2022/23
AND BUDGET VOTE 14 OF STATISTICS SOUTH AFRICA
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC
SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION ON ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLANS 2022/23
AND BUDGET VOTE 11 OF DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND
ADMINISTRATION
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC
SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION ON ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLANS 2022/23
AND BUDGET VOTE 7 OF NATIONAL SCHOOL OF GOVERNMENT
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CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC
SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION ON ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLANS 2022/23
AND BUDGET VOTE 12 OF PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC
SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION ON ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLANS 2022/23
AND BUDGET VOTE 9 OF DEPARTMENT OF PLANNING, MONITORING AND
EVALUATION
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT,
FORESTRY AND FISHERIES ON STRATEGIC PLAN 2019/20—2023/24,
ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLANS 2022/23 AND BUDGET VOTE 32 OF
DEPARTMENT OF FORESTRY, FISHERIES AND ENVIRONMENT (DFFE)
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON POLICE ON
2022/23 BUDGET, ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLAN AND 2020-2025
STRATEGIC PLAN OF PRIVATE SECURITY INDUSTRY REGULATORY
AUTHORITY (PSIRA)
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON POLICE ON
2022/23 BUDGET FOR VOTE 24 AND ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLAN OF
INDEPENDENT POLICE INVESTIGATIVE DIRECTORATE (IPID)
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CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON POLICE ON
2022/23 BUDGET FOR VOTE 21 AND ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLAN OF
CIVILIAN SECRETARIAT FOR POLICE SERVICE (CSPS)
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON POLICE ON
2022/23 BUDGET FOR VOTE 28 AND ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLAN OF
DEPARTMENT OF POLICE (SAPS)
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGET VOTE REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON
HEALTH
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON BASIC
EDUCATION ON BUDGET VOTE 16: BASIC EDUCATION
There was no debate.
THE DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Thanks, House
Chairperson. I move that the report be adopted.
Motion agreed to.
Report on Budget Vote 26 Department of Military Veterans
accordingly adopted (Freedom Front Plus dissenting)
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Report on Budget Vote 23 (Department of Defence) accordingly
adopted (Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Report on Budget Vote No 8: National Treasury (State Security)
accordingly adopted (Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Report on Budget for Defence Intelligence accordingly adopted
(Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Report on Budget for South African Police Service - Crime
Intelligence accordingly adopted (Freedom Front Plus
dissenting).
Report on Budget Vote 10: Public Enterprises, and on Strategic
Plan and Annual Performance Plan for 2022/23 of Department of
Public Enterprises accordingly adopted.
Report of Portfolio Committee on Tourism on Budget Vote No 38:
Tourism accordingly adopted (Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Report on Annual Performance Plan (Budget Vote 20) of
Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities for
financial year 2022/23 accordingly adopted.
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Report on 20022/23 Annual Performance Plan and Budget of
Department of Mineral Resources and Energy (Vote 34) and
entities accordingly adopted (Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Report on Annual performance plans 2022/23 of Department of
Justice and Constitutional Development, National Prosecuting
Authority, Legal Aid South Africa, Special Investigating Unit,
Public Protector South Africa, South African Human Rights
Commission and Information Regulator, and Budget Vote 25:
Justice and Constitutional Development for 2022 MTEF
accordingly adopted (Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Report on Budget Vote 35: Science and Innovation (2022/23)
accordingly adopted.
Report on Budget Vote 31: Employment and Labour, strategic
plan of Department and entities 2021/22 – 2024/25 and annual
performance plan of Department and entities 2022/23
accordingly adopted (Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Report on Vote 5, annual performance plans and budget of
Department of Home Affairs, Electoral Commission and
Government Printing Works accordingly adopted (Freedom Front
Plus dissenting).
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Report on Budget Vote 40: Transport and Strategic Plan and
Annual Performance Plan 2022-23 of Department of Transport
accordingly adopted.
Report on Budget Vote 39: Trade, Industry and Competition
accordingly adopted (Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Report on Budget Vote 6: International Relations and
Cooperation accordingly adopted.
Report on Budget Vote 19, annual performance plans of
Department of Social Development and entities for 2022/23
accordingly adopted (Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Report on Budget Vote 30: Communications and Digital
Technologies accordingly adopted.
Report on Budget Vote 4: Government Communication and
Information System accordingly adopted.
Report on Budget Vote 41, Annual Performance Plan of
Department of Water and Sanitation and entities for 2022/23
financial year accordingly adopted.
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Report on Budget Vote 22: Correctional Services accordingly
adopted (Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Report on Annual Performance Plan for 2022/23 of the Office of
the Chief Justice and Vote 27: Office of the Chief Justice
accordingly adopted (Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Report on Budget Vote 17: Higher Education and Training
accordingly adopted (Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Report on Budget Vote 37: Department of Sport, Arts and
Culture accordingly adopted.
Report on 2022/23 annual performance plans and budget of
Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development
and entities, Vote 29 accordingly adopted (Freedom Front Plus
dissenting).
Report on Budget Vote 8: National Treasury accordingly adopted
(Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Report on 2022/23 annual performance plans and budgets of
Departments of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs
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and entities accordingly adopted (Freedom Front Plus
dissenting).
Report on Budget Vote 36: Small Business Development for
2022/23 financial year accordingly adopted.
Report on Budget Vote 13: Public Works and Infrastructure
accordingly adopted.
Report on Annual Performance Plans 2022/23 and Budget Vote 14
of Statistics South Africa accordingly adopted.
Report on Annual Performance Plans 2022/23 and Budget Vote 11
of Department of Public Service and Administration accordingly
adopted.
Report on Annual Performance Plans 2022/23 and Budget Vote 7
of National School of Government accordingly adopted.
Report on Annual Performance Plans 2022/23 and Budget Vote 12
of Public Service Commission accordingly adopted.
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Report on Annual Performance Plans 2022/23 and Budget Vote 9
of Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation
accordingly adopted.
Report on Strategic Plan 2019/20—2023/24, Annual Performance
Plans 2022/23 and Budget Vote 32 of Department of Forestry,
Fisheries and Environment (DFFE) accordingly adopted.
Report on 2022/23 Budget, Annual Performance Plan and 2020-
2025 Strategic Plan of Private Security Industry Regulatory
Authority (PSIRA) accordingly adopted.
Report of Portfolio Committee on Police on 2022/23 Budget for
Vote 24 and Annual Performance Plan of Independent Police
Investigative Directorate (Ipid) accordingly adopted.
Report on Police on 2022/23 Budget for Vote 21 and Annual
Performance Plan of Civilian Secretariat for Police Service
(CSPS) accordingly adopted.
Report on 2022/23 Budget for Vote 28 and Annual Performance
Plan of Department of Police (Saps) accordingly adopted.
Report on Health accordingly adopted.
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Report on Budget Vote 16: Basic Education accordingly adopted
(Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: House Chairperson ...
[Inaudible.] ... House Chairperson, I want to seek clarity
from your teams that I am creating my assumption. So, what we
did today is, we accept these reports we have already debated
in the House. [Interjections.] And then next week we will be
debating schedules. And that’s when we will object or agree
and if we want to bring division because I think there might
be some confusions. So, I just want to make sure that I don’t
incriminate myself. So, what we are objecting or supporting is
the fact that this were, in fact, will be debated in the House
and that we will have a chance to do so.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Mazzone, thank
you very much. I think hon Mazzone, you are correct. Hon
members, I think we have indicated that these are reports
between 4 and 44. If there are members that want to object,
they are free to do so. It will be noted. But for now there
has been no objections. And thank you very much. We have noted
the FF Plus. We have noted. Okay. The FF Plus has objected and
they did not indicate which report they are objecting to. So,
they will make an indication maybe at a later stage.
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Page: 135
Ms T BREEDT: Thank you, Chairperson. I will do that. I will
consult the Table and give through our different numbers on
which we will then object if that will be in order with you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members, I
think the process has been followed correctly. That hon
members, conclude the business of the day. The House is
adjourned.
The House adjourned at 17:19.
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