Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 24 Mar 2022
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
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Watch video here: PLENARY (HYBRID) [GHC]
The House met at 14:00.
The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you. Please be seated. Hon members, the usual ... Please settle down and stay in the seat that you have been allocated. Also, keep your masks on. The first item on the Order Paper is a motion in the name of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party. Chief Whip?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Thank you very much, hon Deputy Speaker and hon members. I move that the House suspends Rule 290(2)(a), which provides inter alia that the debate on the Second Reading of a Bill may not commence before at least three working days have elapsed since the committee’s report was tabled, for the purpose of conducting the Second Reading today on the Division of Revenue Bill, which is known as Dora. I so move.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I now put the motion. Are there any objections? Yes, hon Chief Whip of the Opposition?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, I rise to say that in consultation with the Chief Whip, she has consulted with all the other Whips and we have come to the agreement that we agree with her decision and we have no problem with the lapsing of the Rule. Agreed to.
DIVISION OF REVENUE BILL
(Consideration of Report of Standing Committee on Appropriations)
There was no debate.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Speaker and this august House, I move that the Report be adopted. Thank you.
Question put.
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, African Christian Democratic Party and Freedom Front Plus dissenting). Report accordingly adopted.
DIVISION OF REVENUE BILL
(Second Reading debate)
Mr S N BUTHELEZI: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon members, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, ladies and gentlemen, the ANC supports the Division of Revenue Bill [B6 — 2022]. At this stage I would also like to thank all those who participated in ensuring that today we can stand in front of you to debate this Bill.
The Division of Revenue Bill is redistributive. About 59,4% which is about R3,3 trillion over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF, of the nationally raised revenue goes towards the social wage, which is education, health, social development and employment creation. This is meant to provide the much-needed safety net for the most vulnerable sections of our people, that are mostly black, women, children, rural, township residents and people living with disabilities. Also, rural provinces receive more funding per capita. For example, the per capita allocation in the Northern Cape is about 1,7 times ... when compared to Gauteng. Over the MTEF, after budgeting for debt service costs, the contingency reserve and provisional allocation, national government receives 48,8%, provinces 41,4% and local government 9,8% of nationally raised revenues. In 2022-23, the three spheres of government will share R1,66 trillion, R1,60 trillion in 2023-24 and R1,67 trillion in 2024-25. This is close to R5 trillion in the MTEF. This is the money which must ensure that the much-needed services are delivered to our people. Every cent of this money must be directed at enhancing inclusive economic growth, and reducing poverty, unemployment and inequality. We agree with Comrade Kenny Morolong when he argues: “Parliament should move towards an outcome and impact assessment model of oversight, qualitatively different to how we are currently conducting oversight”.
This Bill provides resources to the marching orders given by the President, His Excellency hon Ramaphosa during the state of the nation address. The objectives include defeating COVID- 19, infrastructure build, job creation and expanding energy generation capacity. The Bill gives financial resources to the three spheres of government to obtain these objectives. The President enjoins the nation to get into a social compact to work for the attainment of these objectives. We agree with the hon President that no individual, class or stratum of society, working in silos, will be able to achieve these national imperatives.
COVID-19 has ravaged the lives of our people. Fathers and mothers have died, leaving thousands of orphans. This Parliament has not been spared. Many businesses have closed.
No wonder the high rates of unemployment, not just in our country but all over the world.
The introduction of the special COVID-19 Social Relief of Distress, SRD, Grant was initially meant as a relief for a few months. It was subsequently extended to the end of March 2022. However, the beneficiaries of this grant, through their organisations and individually, spoke to the government about the need to extend it. The ANC, whose mandate is based on the
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will of the people, listens. This Bill also extends the SRD
Grant for the next 12 months until the end of March 2023. This
will come at a cost of R44 billion.
The multiplied impact of this grant is bigger than
R44 billion. Our people who receive this grant have a high
propensity to spend. This money is not stashed under beds or
in banks. This will protect farmers, bakeries, butcheries, etc
because more mealie-meal ... many bags of flour will be
bought. This will protect and create more jobs. This talks to
the connection between firms and households.
An amount of R21,1 billion is added to support provinces’
ongoing response to the COVID-19 pandemic, mainly for the
appointment of medical interns and community service doctors.
Relative to the 2021 Budget, direct provincial allocations
increase by R74,1 billion over the medium term.
Local government allocations over the same period increase by
a total of R30,7 billion. I am mentioning these interventions
to demonstrate that, despite the economic and fiscal
challenges, this ANC government will never forsake those who
are vulnerable and victims of 350 years of apartheid and white
minority misrule of our country.
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We should applaud the fact that all these increases and
allocations were effected without compromising our fiscal
position. For instance, the budget deficit decreased by
R135,7 billion relative to the 2021 Budget estimate. This
means that we will borrow less than initially anticipated.
Gross debt to the gross domestic product, GDP, ratio is
expected to stabilise at 75,1% in 2024-25. The consolidated
budget deficit decreases from 6,6% in 2022-23 to 4,2% in 2024-
25. Indeed, our fiscus has shown a lot of resilience.
In our attempt to get consensus and a social compact, this
government has also given some relief to businesses. Through
the Temporary Employee/Employer Relief Scheme, TERS, the
Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF, has disbursed over
R65 billion to both employers and employees. Comrade Zanele
Nkomo stressed the point in her debate when she said:
“Reduction of corporate income tax, CIT, from 28% to 27%
should provide gross fixed capital formation by the private
sector”. This is important because, over the years fixed
investment has been on the decline. However, the hon President
speaks of trade-offs by everyone. He also says:
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We have been taking extraordinary measures to enable
businesses to grow and create jobs alongside expanded
public employment and social protection.
We are therefore calling on the private sector to reinvest
their profits and desist from retrenchments, especially in a
climate where there is a high rate of unemployment. The
continued retrenchment of workers has a negative multiplier
effect. Apart from decreasing disposable income, it also
reduces the tax base, resulting in less revenue for the SA
Revenue Service, Sars. Can we see quid pro quo from business?
... also calling on banks to be empathetic. Can they find a
way of avoiding repossessing the houses and cars of people who
are temporarily out of employment? I still cannot understand
why someone who has been religious in his or her bond
repayments is easily evicted when he is temporarily out of a
job. I guess this is the type of trade-offs that the President
is talking about.
What does not supporting this Bill mean? It means that members
will be saying no to the employment of medical interns, no
infrastructure build, no R350 SRD Grant, among others. That’s
what this means. Thank you. [Applause.]
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you. Hon members, I do wish to draw
your attention to what we know. On my list here are three
columns that I want to focus on. It’s the name of the party,
the time allocated, the speaker and then the language. Now
surely we can’t only be speaking English in the House. I do
wish to draw your attention to ... notify the Table that
you’ll speak in whichever other language, except for the FF
Plus ...
Afrikaans:
.. wat dit baie duidelik maak dat hulle in Afrikaans en in
Engels praat. Dit is goed. Jy kan ook so doen.
English:
So, let’s do that please. It’s appropriate that we be
exemplary in the House because it’s contained in our laws and
our own provisions for ... [Inaudible.] Please proceed, hon
member.
Mr J N DE VILLIERS: Thank you Deputy Speaker. Deputy Speaker,
two years after the pandemic started, South Africans are
poorer, more unemployed and more unequal than ever before. The
tide against poverty, unemployment and inequality can only be
turned when governments starts creating the right economic
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conditions for businesses to grow and therefore employment
opportunities will to increase but to create this claimant of
economic growth, all three spheres of government need to work
and this starts when the government spends and manages its
share of the national revenue responsibly.
The DA supports budget 2022’s commitment to provide support
for the pandemic, job creation and social protection. We also
welcome government’s decision to use a portion of the
unplanned revenue windfall to lower government debt and get
South Africa out of our debt spiral. An urge that government
debt stabilisation must remain a priority.
The DA would however like to caution against the budgeting for
access revenue windfalls as these increases were probably
temporary. We therefore advice the department to be proactive
in terms of future budgeting and not fund commitments created
the allocation of this windfall.
Deputy Speaker, if we want to get the economy moving again, it
is critical that provincial and municipal governments improve
their efficiency of spending and value for money for tax
payers.
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Although this year’s Division of Revenue Bill allocates more
money to provinces and municipalities than last year, we must
not forget that these allocations were severely cut last year
to help national government during the pandemic.
The provincial and municipal spheres of government are
responsible for the critical services and management of
hospitals, the up keeping of our roads, waste management and
the redistribution of electricity and water.
Deputy Speaker, no small business can grow and employ more
people if the local municipality and province in which they
reside can’t maintain the hospitals, roads or other basic
services that every business and employer and employee in a
business needs to grow.
It is therefore also critical that we monitor, report and
evaluate what and how government choses to spend its revenue
especially as municipal Eskom debt plagues local
municipalities.
Deputy Speaker, Eskom municipal debt is now at R35,3 billion
which is a year on year rise of 26%. Local municipalities that
owe Eskom money contribute to the national energy crisis and
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should not be considered for any grants or national special
funding.
Fraud, corruption and fiscal mismanagement remain rampant. The
government must take decisive and prompt action against the
criminals in all spheres of government that robs the tax payer
and ultimately contributes to making South Africans poorer,
more unemployed and more unequal.
We again call on government to send a clear message that
corruption and theft of state money and resources will not be
tolerated. But not by making more speeches and threats but by
effective prosecution and sentencing of corrupt state
officials.
Deputy Speaker, South African can only recover and South
Africans reach their true potential where government works and
services are delivered. I thank you.
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Thank you very much Deputy Speaker. Deputy
Speaker, the EFF rejects the Division of Revenue Bill. The
Division of Revenue Bill is a [Interjections.]
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Sorry...sorry hon member. Hon members,
please, we can’t go on like that. Surely you won’t expect that
when you are speaking that all of us engage in conversations
as if you are not speaking. It’s inappropriate hon members.
Thank you very much. Go ahead hon Ntlangwini.
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Thank you sir. I hope you will add that
minute to my minutes that you just took.
The Division of Revenue Bill is one of the most important
pieces of the legislation in South Africa and it’s tabled by
the Minister of Finance every year. The Division of Revenue
Bill seeks to allocate money across all spheres of government.
The Bill takes the money that is collected by Sars and
allocates it between national, provincial and local government
and includes the kind form and character of conditional
grants.
On Paper, the Bill is supposed to allocate money between
spheres of government between provinces and municipalities in
an equitable manner, however the new liberal framework
Division of Revenue Bill is based on a falsehood. The Bill is
based on an idea that municipalities must collect the majority
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of their own revenue to deliver services and equitable share
is only meant to supplement municipalities.
Municipalities are supposed to charge for water, electricity
and collection of waste and also charge residents for sewerage
infrastructure. Well this is true for eight metro
municipalities that are able to raise more than 80% of their
income from their own revenues.
The majority of local and district municipalities are in
financial distress and bankrupt and do not deliver any
services to our people. The National Treasury must provide an
assessment that the municipalities currently charge less than
the cost of services that create the revenue gap is informed
by a new liberal believe that government must operate like a
commercial market basis.
The idea that municipalities must operate like businesses is a
defund believe that is used to guide the National Treasury
overall fiscall policy. There is no evidence to suggest that
there is any effort to rethink the Division of Revenue Bill to
fit South Africa’s material conditions Mr Buthelezi. What are
these conditions?
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Half of the adult population lives in poverty. More than 46%
of adults working population is willing, ready and able to
work and cannot find work regardless of how desperately they
look. We live in the most unequal society that continues to
resemble to the shape of apartheid.
Deputy Speaker, allow us to deal with some of the features of
the Bill before the House. The proposed Division of Revenue
Bill allocates 49,7% to national departments with 1,2% to
provinces and only 9,1% to municipalities. This is a misguided
allocation of resources. We must change the allocation of
formula and do away with the idea that municipalities must
operate like companies and treat citizens like customers.
We must position municipalities, all municipalities as
industrial sites. Municipalities must build industrial hubs
and take dilapidated buildings in Dimbaza, Buffalo City,
Seshego, Polokwane and Botshabelo in the Free State to Rebuild
these industries.
Municipalities must set up their own abattoirs to help and buy
food from local and black owned livestock farmers. We must
develop clear procurement guidelines to ensure that
municipalities buy the majority of goods they use from local
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producers. Municipalities must build internal capacity to
deliver services.
The time has arrived to abolish tender systems and insource
cleaners, security guards and other outsourced municipal
workers Mr Buthelezi. Municipalities must establish
construction companies, buy and manage their own vehicles to
collect waste and enforce bylaws and fix potholes.
Municipalities must build trading spaces, Shoprite, Spar, Pick
n Pay, Cashbuild, you name it and other big retailers continue
to deny our people retail space. Municipalities must have a
town planning programme based on a land audit, a clear
municipal and land reform plan and a practical plan to
formalize all informal settlements.
Finally, municipalities must provide basic services to the
poor families even when it does not depend on the ability to
pay these services. There are subsidies for each indigent
household that is supposed to ensure that our people receive
free electricity water and sanitation and waste removal. But
there is no research that is showing that this model is
failing. There must be...
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member your time has expired. Thank
you very much.
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: But you took some of my minutes.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no hon member, you don’t debate that.
You don’t! You don’t debate that. Your time has expired.
Ms O M MAOTWE: Deputy Speaker?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon Maotwe?
Ms O M MAOTWE: I just wanted to check if you added that
minute?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: There was no minute available for saving
and giving to you afterwards. When I speak as a presiding
officer the timer is stopped. Please don’t raise that issue
again
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: You like to do it. You like to do it.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Just go away hon members, you are wasting
time. Hon Buthelezi are you able to connect?
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Ms E N NTLANGWINI: But hon Buthelezi already spoke.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Buthelezi? Hon member please go ahead
and speak on behalf of the member.
Ms Z MAJOZI: Thank you hon...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no hon Cebekhulu, I gave you a chance
to speak.
Prince R N CEBEKHULU: Deputy Speaker and members, the Minister
of Finance has yet again failed to address the most urgent
needs of our people. This is outlined in the report of the
Standing Committee on Appropriations on the Division of
Revenue Bill for 2022. Considering the report by the standing
committee the Minister of Finance has missed an opportunity to
make a political statement that the National Treasury is
willing to afford local government greater financial
assistance. It seems that our appeals not just as the IFP, but
as all parties who make up the opposition benches in this
House simply fell on deaf ears.
Indeed, we are mindful of government’s over financial
constraints as revenue collected mostly goes to servicing our
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debt. However, sizable amounts of thousand billion continue to
go to the failing state-owned enterprises and redundant
national government departments which merely serve an
administrative role. When we say that government neglects
local government is because every year the Division of Revenue
Act, Dora or after Dora we sit with same situation where
provinces and national departments take the biggest slice of
the cake. Local government remains under capitalised and
underfunded. The Division of Revenue simply flies in the face
of the principle of co-operative governance and is not a just
fair and equitable distribution of finances.
It is not a secret that local government is the sphere of
government that most South Africans engage with it daily. It
is therefore imperative that we ensure that local governments
are empowered to deliver beyond their basic mandate of
providing water and electricity to residents.
Chairperson, local government is the best place to encourage
entrepreneuring activities and to focus on co-operatives
whether they be agricultural, textile, women-led or for youth
empowerment.
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Furthermore, the IFP calls on all departments to ensure that
proper checks and balances are in place. In doing so it will
stop the leakages and the system that drain our hard-earned
tax and monies. The impact of al allocations as outlined in
the Division of Revenue Bill should be seen in people’s lives
and it should be changing their lives for better. We want
tangible results which provide the best value for money.
In closing, we want to see perpetrators, colluders, criminals
and corrupt officials behind bars. South Africans are
desperate and are getting increasingly anxious that nothing is
being done. A strong message must be sent that stealing from
the state will be dealt with using the full might of the law.
We therefore welcome the increase in allocations for justice
improving policy and all our law enforcement agencies. We hope
that government will consider our appeals. With that said the
IFP supports this report. I thank you.
Afrikaans:
Me T BREEDT: Dankie, agb Adjunkspeaker.
English:
The Division of Revenue Bill has always been a highly debated
topic with multiple opinions. In the years leading to this a
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number of factors have raised concerned and many more
arguments have been heard. The most notorious is that of the
formula that calculates the division of conditional grants.
Ring-fencing remains subjects for discussion. But the greatest
concern is the state of our municipalities when taking all of
these into account.
Furthermore, the problems do not end there. The problem with
the Division of Revenue is that due to its concurrencies
proper oversight and consequence management is never done.
Indeed, monitoring and evaluation does not take place and this
allows municipalities to get away with murder, so to speak. It
merely becomes a blame shifting competition between the
different spheres of government.
During the 2020-21 financial year, there was a significant
increase in the number of municipalities with funded budgets
due to the Treasury withholding transfers and less budgets
were funded. What has now really even been hurting is
municipalities that choose not to take the Treasury’s advice
into consideration. Half of all municipalities in South Africa
have adopted unfunded budgets. This is worse than in prior
years. What this means is that these municipalities’
expenditure - the money they use - is expected to exceed their
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projected revenue - the money they receive. This is also in
direct contravention of the Municipal Finance Management Act.
But it gets worse still. Even though municipalities adopted
regulatory frameworks they were still struggling to satisfy
basic service needs.
What I have seen in the Free State, one of the provinces with
the highest number of municipalities with unfunded budgets, is
the way that municipalities ... [Recording stopped] ... in tax
collection rates above 63% yet they budget for rates of 75%.
It doesn’t end there. In the Frees State particularly, but not
limited to the province, the ruling party, which is also the
ruling party in this House, has no regard for laws. These
budgets are merely pushed through by the majority. We cannot
continue like this. A positive is the change that the formula
has made whether these are the correct changes or whether we
will see positive change in our provinces remains to be seen.
The early childhood development, ECDs, are finally being moved
back to the Basic Education, a process that has been years in
the making. Targets are claimed and funds allocated, but never
are the real questions being asked. I can preach the
importance of early childhood development as myself and as
colleagues have done multiple times. We all know that these
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are the most critical years in the child’s development and are
seriously lacking in South Africa. Do we give early childhood
development the attention and money it needs and deserves? I
think not.
Afrikaans:
In Afrikaans is daar ’n gesegde. Al dra ’n aap ’n goue ring,
dit is en bly ’n lelike ding.
English:
To rename the provincial disaster relief grant to the
provincial disaster response grant to align it to the
municipal disaster management system, MDMS process will not
change what is fundamentally wrong with this grant. It will
not certainly make the problems experienced magically
disappear. We need to have an entire rethink on how disaster
relief grants work, how they are applied for and what is best
way to see change effected on the ground. I can continue with
the Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP, allocations to name
but one.
Chairperson, the fact of the matter is, we can allocate to the
different programmes whatever we want, but unless we take
responsibility, ensure proper oversight, monitoring and
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evaluation and follow that up with harsh consequence
management all these is a government wish list that will never
be anything more than a wish. I thank you.
Mr S N SWART: Deputy Speaker, the ACDP notes the additional
allocation to provinces and municipalities R74,1 billion and
R30,7 billion over the medium-term. This followed the sharp
decreases last year. We share concerns expressed by other
speakers about the poor governance, financial mismanagement
and insufficient capacity in many municipalities. It is
estimated that a staggering R232 billion is owed to
municipalities by consumers and this is up from R165 billion
two years ago. The number of municipalities in financial
distress has risen alarmingly from 86 in 2013-14 to a
staggering 175 in 2019-20. Now there never to a consequence is
potholes, broken water and sewage works, electrical breakdown,
scrambling municipal clinics and other service delivery
failures. The committee expresses its concerns in the report
in this regard, reiterating the lack of consequence management
within local government - an issue it says it has raised many
times with Salga. The ACDP cannot in good conscience support
this additional allocation given the shocking state of many
municipalities until there is good stewardship and a
substantial improvement in these municipalities.
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As far as provinces are concerned, the ACDP notes the proposed
R15,6 billion to the provincial equitable share to support
provincial departments of health. To quote, continue
responding to the COVID-19 pandemic and to reduce the impact
of budget reduction on essential medical goods and services.
Now we all know that public health care is in a shocking state
in many provinces and on this World Tuberculosis Day, the ADCP
remains concerns that life threatening diseases such as
tuberculosis, HIV and Aids, chronic heart disease and other
illnesses which are largely treatable have not received the
same attention or funding as that in dealing with COVID-19. We
are not detracting from a seriousness of COVID-19. Yesterday,
there were thankfully no COVID-19 related deaths. This is to
be celebrated. Yet on average, more than 1 000 people would
have died of these largely treatable other diseases that is
largely due to new immunity which up to 80% of South Africa
have
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, don’t scream back at a
member. Allow him to finish. You will make your point to him
outside. No, no, outside not here. Don’t scream.
Mr W M THRING: On the point of order, Chair. That’s member
Wayne Thring here, Chai. There’s one of the members from the
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ANC who shouted out at our member hon Swart that he is a
hypocrite. That member needs to withdraw because if anything
he is a man who speaks the truth. I think the truth hurts when
it is spoken from the podium, Chair.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, please this is why I am
suggesting to stop screaming at each other. We are going to
slide into using rich vocabulary that is not allowed in the
House but that one is not one of them. Please don’t do that.
Hon member, please go ahead.
Mr S N SWART: Thank you, to contextualise this further the
world organisation states that 61 000 people died of
tuberculosis in 2020 and if one assumes that same figure for
last year 2021 that would mean approximately 122 000 people
died of tuberculosis in those two years far higher than the
number of COVID-19 related deaths. The ACDP whilst looking
into this Division of Revenue Bill will also call on the
government of this World tuberculosis day to give equal
attention if not more attention and funding to other diseases
as well. I thank you.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Deputy Speaker, I am sure you will be
pleased to hear that I have left my rich vocabulary at home.
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Section 214 of the Constitution requires that a Division of
Revenue determines the equitable division of national raise
revenue among these three spheres of government. Colleagues, I
regret to inform you that despite what the Constitution
requires of this House, there is nothing equitable about South
Africa ‘s Division of Revenue. We have been harping on this
point since I became a Member of Parliament that nowhere is
more evident than in the fact that municipalities continue to
get a ... percent of the total revenue. Despite municipalities
being at a coalface of service delivery. We are afraid that we
cannot celebrate the amelioration, such as the 10,3% which you
have cited as an increase in the local government’ share,
because it does not take away the problem. To make matters
worse former Minister of Finance, Tito Mboweni ...
IsiXhosa:
... lo wePilchard wenu ...
English:
... according to him out of 278 municipalities, South Africa
163 were in financial distress, 40 were battling to deliver
basic services, 102 had adopted budget for 2021-22 that they
could not fund. He also said and I quote:
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A growing number of municipalities around the country are
also failing to collect revenue from businesses and
residents for water, electricity, property taxes and so
on.
Meaning there are serious capacity and challenges at local
government level which have to be addressed, but also the
funding model is a problem.
IsiXhosa:
Usihlalo apha ufike wathetha isiNgesi esithi ...
English:
... per capita.
IsiXhosa:
Simnandi ke esa siNgesi sithi ...
English:
... per capita, it means per head.
IsiXhosa:
Ithi loo nto abantu bamaphondo asemaphandleni bafumana imali
eyongezelelweyo ngentloko. Ewe, hayi ndiyazibona iimpukane.
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English:
Now the problem is because of urbanisation. That is why people
have left rural provinces ...
IsiXhosa:
... basuka beza kungena apha ...
English:
... because the rural provinces and the economies have
completely collapsed because of your government. The other
issue is the reduction of corporate income tax, which is a
problem - you can defend it here as the ANC – a party that
once used to be a social democratic party. Even the Minister
of Finance responding to my question said at one point. If you
take and reduce that by one per cent you lose R30 billion, but
he could not demonstrate or provide a critical evidence of how
much revenue will increase South Africa revenue if you reduce
income corporate tax. No one has actually indicated to us that
how much revenue are we also going to lose.
IsiXhosa:
Nifuna nje ukusiqhatha ngokumana nisibonisa iimpukane
ezingekhoyo.
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English:
The other issue is this Social Relief of Distress Grant ...
IsiXhosa:
... yenu eniyinika abantu abangayilungelanga. Naba abanye
banamashishishini ...
English:
... in the informal sector ...
IsiXhosa:
... kodwa bafumana le mali ...
English:
... whereas they are earning more because you do not do due
diligence ...
IsiXhosa:
... kuba kaloku inikwa nabani na apha phandle, nimana nisithi
ninceda abantu. Amasela!
Mr B A RADEBE: Hon Speaker, is it that not a creative
language?
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The hon member is persistent, he does it
every day and we have spoken to him about it. It will be
addressed appropriately. Hon members, the clock here on your
left, hon Kwankwa is designed for you. It is in big letters;
you cannot claim that you didn’t see that your time has
expired. If you proceed in spite of the clock telling you that
your time has expired, you are defying your own rules. It’s
not good. You are not exemplary. I am not inviting you to
speak, hon member.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Please, I want to apologise I didn’t hear
you, Deputy Speaker.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You mustn’t do that again, please. Anyone
who may want to appoint herself. There is only one timekeeper
at a time in the House.
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: On a point of order, Deputy Speaker.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What’s the point of order?
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Deputy Speaker, there must be a timekeeper
also for the virtual platform. We don’t know whether you are
misleading us or what because you called the point of order to
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calm the members of the ANC down. ... [Inaudible.] I have
practice my speech and its within my five minutes and you took
my minute from my speech. You need to do it on Virtual
platform, Sir.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Ntlangwini.
IsiXhosa:
Nksz E N NTLANGWINI: Ewe, Tata.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am afraid that your trust problems are
not going to advance.
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: I have trust issues with you.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member!
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: I have trust issues with you.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, stop talking when the
presiding officer is talking. What’s wrong with you? Why do
you guys assume that you have authority to speak as well while
you are being addressed? The rules are explicit even for you
in the House.
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IsiZulu:
Yini le eniyixoxayo kukhulunywa lapha eNdlini. Kanti ninjani
nibadala kangaka? Niyaxoxa. Umehluko ukuphi kini nabantu
abangenamthetho laphaya ngaphandle.
English:
No, please, can you be respectful of your rules all of you,
members. Please, don’t assume that we enjoy what we are doing
right now. It’s not okay, please.
Mr B N HERRON: Deputy Speaker, our number one priority must be
to address the pervasive and pernicious poverty that is
endemic across our country. We will address this poverty by
growing our economy in the right sectors, creating jobs, and
providing social security for those without an income.
Balancing our budget, reducing our deficit and turning our
anaemic growth projections around are crucial.
We will not create enough jobs to make a meaningful impact on
unemployment unless we get our economic growth up to at least
3% per annum. The projected growth rates for the medium term –
hovering just below 2% – are not acceptable and our government
should not settle for that level of growth.
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If Russia’s war on Ukraine is not resolved quickly, our
economic growth could fall to below 1% per annum in the medium
term. Our government has a duty to ensure that this does not
happen.
If our government sees its role in this conflict as that of
mediator, then we need our government to act quickly in that
role.
We welcome the emphasis on infrastructure-led economic growth.
All spheres of government, including provincial and local,
should be focussing on the historical under-development of
infrastructure in some communities and the infrastructure
deficits and backlogs that have grown as we have urbanised and
developed. [Interjections.]
Rolling out a large-scale infrastructure programme ...
[Interjections.]
Deputy Speaker, is someone else speaking?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, and I told her to switch off her mic.
Go ahead, hon Herron.
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Mr B N HERRON: Thank you, Deputy Speaker.
All spheres of our government, including provincial and local,
should be focussing on the historical under-development of
infrastructure in some communities and the infrastructure
deficits and backlogs that have grown as we have urbanised and
developed.
Rolling out a large-scale infrastructure programme is an
investment in our economy, an investment in our people’s lived
experiences and an opportunity to create significant numbers
of jobs.
Small business and self-employment presents the greatest
opportunity for us to reduce unemployment. Some analyses
conclude that we can halve our unemployment rate if we were to
achieve the same levels of self-employment as our peer
countries.
The bounce-back financing scheme appears to prioritise
existing businesses whose revenue and cash flows were affected
by the pandemic. We need funding for those who have the idea,
the passion and the courage to start their own business. The
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greatest obstacle to self-employment and small business growth
is not red-tape. It is access to start-up funding.
Finally, we cannot ignore the third cog in the wheel of
addressing poverty: the provision of some income to those who
have no income because they cannot find a job, cannot create a
job, and don’t qualify for any of the current social security
cash transfers.
We have to be honest with ourselves. We are not extending the
R350 per month social relief grant for 12 months. That grant
can never be taken away. We have 10 million people who are
currently relying on it. We will not easily survive the socio-
economic shock of cancelling access to that grant.
We support the Bill but we urge Treasury to stop planning for
this allocation as temporary – it is not. Thank you. (Time
expired.)
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Deputy Speaker, let me at the outset say
that the NFP supports the Division of Revenue Amendment Bill
tabled here today.
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However, allow me to raise a serious concern. We all know that
SA Airways, SAA, was the pride and joy of South Africa. The
secrecy around the disposal of the 51% of SAA is deeply
concerning. More importantly, the fact that National Treasury
– the actual custodians of our financial resources and assets
– has not been consulted is a matter that we really need to
address.
Many of my colleagues have spoken about the local government
equitable share and I agree with them – a lot more needs to be
done. But the question we also need to ask is, what is local
government giving back to the people.
Let me give you an example of a lack of accountability. When a
municipality can spend R5 million on a breakfast but is not
able to provide water for three years to the people in Igudu
in Zululand, that’s an abuse of power, and an abuse of
taxpayers’ resources!
So, the equitable share that is given to municipalities simply
means that it is being abused. That’s what is happening.
When there is no accountability measures in place ... where a
municipality, without any authority, with no need whatsoever
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to interfere in internal battles in political parties, decides
to spend hundreds of thousands of rands in legal costs when it
does not involve you whatsoever ... wasteful expenditure of
taxpayers’ money. That is the reason you cannot provide water
to people for three years. That’s the reason for it.
Now, if you want to know where ... I am talking about the
Zululand District Municipality. That’s what I am talking
about.
Let us welcome the decision by the President to acknowledge
our latest King MisuZulu and the R66 million that has been
released to the kingdom.
The NFP has made some submissions and the chairperson of the
Standing Committee on Appropriations is here to acknowledge
that.
We need greater accountability. We need a more transparent and
credible process, particularly where procurement is concerned.
We need to ensure an equitable distribution of the work that
is allocated to the private sector, not just for a few people
that must benefit at local, provincial and national level.
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We are asking National Treasury to give us a report every
quarter ...
The NFP supports the report tabled here today. Thank you.
(Time expired.)
Ms M C DIKGALE: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon members, hon Ministers
and Deputy Ministers, fellow South Africans, let me start by
wishing you a belated happy Human Rights Day. In the same
breath, I remind you that with the high rate of poverty,
unemployment and inequality, human rights will remain elusive
for the majority of people of this country, especially the
victims of centuries of oppression and repression of black
people by successive white minority government.
It is thus incumbent upon us to work tirelessly to reverse
these man-made hardships of our people, amongst others,
ensuring that our people have affordable access to water,
electricity, housing, health and education. We should avoid at
all costs to normalise what it abnormal – which is poverty.
Before I proceed, let me state that the ANC supports the
Division of Revenue Bill because it is pro-poor attempts to
roll back the frontiers of poverty, inequality, homelessness
and unemployment.
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The Bill allocates 9,1% of nationally raised revenue to local
government. This is a huge increase when you compare it with
allocation of 7,5% in 2008-09. This number will increase to
9,8% in 2024-25. This shows that the ANC listens and responds
to the issues raised by, amongst others, the SA Local
Government Association, Salga, which has over the years argued
for more allocations to local government. The importance of
this sphere of government cannot be overemphasised.
The President, His Excellency, Mr Ramaphosa, stresses this
point when he says: “Local government is where you can make
the biggest differences in the lives of pour people.” By
providing reliable water supply, sanitation, energy and refuse
services and through road and infrastructure maintenance,
local government enables our economy to grow and create
employment. The local government equitable share and
conditions grants add on the revenue that local governments
are expected to raise them. [Inaudible.]
AN HON MEMBER: Deputy Speaker, can I rise on a point of order?
AN HON MEMBER: We can’t hear on the virtual platform, Deputy
Speaker.
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AN HON MEMBER: Hon members, we are being reconnected to the
Chamber.
Ms C SEOPOSENGWE: Hon Deputy Speaker, we can’t hear.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: There is no sound,
whatsoever. [Interjections.]
AN HON MEMBER: They are aware ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, it is being attended to.
Okay.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Now we can hear,
Deputy Speaker.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Are you able to hear, now?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Yes, Deputy Speaker,
we can hear you. [Interjections.]
AN HON MEMBER: Yes, we can Deputy Speaker. We can.
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much. go ahead, hon
Dikgale. Please go ahead.
Ms M C DIKGALE: Thank you very much.
Sepedi:
Ka Segage?o re re: Ngwana yo a sa llego o hwela tharing. Ba
let?e, re ba kwele.
English:
We welcome the total of R1 billion that is added to the direct
Regional Bulk Infrastructure Grant for George Local
Municipality to implement water security and remedial works
project. We also urge the municipality to ensure that this
project is completed within allocated budget and timeframes.
This is important for service delivery and provision of jobs
which our people need. KwaZulu-Natal gets an allocation of
R26 million and R321 million in the two financial years
respectively through the Municipal Disaster Recovery Grant to
delay with the effects of the damage to infrastructure and
homes occasioned by the floods.
In this regard we agree with Salga when it says these
responses take a long time. It is calling for more speed and
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agility to respond to these disasters. Let us not be caught in
bureaucracy. We have raised concerns about certain
municipalities which have not been able to use Public
Transport Network Grant, PTNG. These has resulted in National
Treasury withdrawing those funds. In this regard, we are
calling on the Department of Transport, National Treasury and
municipalities concerned to come with implementable plans with
strict timeframes to ensure that these projects are
implemented. This should be done without further delay.
The Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation should
come closer to these grants and ensure that they are
effectively and efficiently utilised and other people receive
the much-needed services. Hon member’s, we also note with
concern the rescheduling of PTNG by the City of Cape Town.
This practice led to the decrease of PTNG by R859 million in
2022-23 and 2023-24 meant for MyCiti project. Although this
makes the books look good, at the end of the day, the people
of Khayelitsha, Nyanga and Bonteheuwel are denied the
services. Job opportunities which must come from the
infrastructure project are also delayed. This is completely
unacceptable. Let us remember that transfers from national
government are meant to subsidise services provided to poor
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households. These transfers are not meant to compensate for
low revenue collection for those who can pay.
We call on municipalities to enforce credit control measures
where revenue is not paid. Municipalities are owed over
R261 billion. National and provincial departments owe
municipalities over R20 billion while businesses owe a
whopping R54,2 billion. This has an unfortunate domino effect.
Municipalities cannot pay their creditors, like water boards
and Eskom. Even more worrying and painful is that this denies
the poorest of the poor the most needed basic services. The
committee therefore implores all departments, first and
foremost to pay their bills.
This Parliament passes budgets which include monies to pay the
bills. We therefore do not understand why they are not paid.
We are also calling on the respective portfolio committees as
it is their oversight responsibilities, to follow up on this
matter. Business should pay their bills on time, as the
failure to pay renders our municipalities dysfunctional.
Allocating resources to municipalities through equitable share
and conditional grants is very important. But even more
important is ensuring that the money is used for what it is
designed to do. The resources which this House makes available
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through the Division of Revenue Act are meant for the people
and nothing else. At the end of the day, the hon members and
people of South Africa want to see the impact of these
resources failure ... [Time expired.] Thank you very much,
Deputy Speaker. [Interjections.]
Mr S M JAFTA: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. The Division of
Revenue Bill gives revenue allocation on equitable balance
between the three spheres of government. The division of
revenue between the three spheres of government take into
account service delivery needs, departmentally shared
mandates, priorities and variety of socioeconomic
considerations. It is perhaps fitting at this point to
highlight that our GDP growth rate has been revised downwards
to less than 2%. The unemployment rate, according to the
expanded definition of unemployment increased by 2,2
percentage points to 46,6% as Statistics SA reported.
This record exposes the limitation of this revenue Bill in the
main because, firstly, local government still receives a small
chunk of budget despite being at the coalface of service
delivery. Secondly, furthermore, given the high rate of ...
[Inaudible.] ... as ratepayers will default on their municipal
bills. Thirdly, the funding of early child development across
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nine provinces remain uneven in terms of parity of payment and
therefore leads to uneven distribution of skills.
Our main concern is that provincial departments are not
meaningfully working with Salga to see to it that the spirit
of district development plan is carried through. The recurring
failure of the departments to submit financial statements must
also be tackled. With the not continuously have rollovers when
basic resources to the poor have not been provided. When there
are rollovers, and when provinces do not spend housing budget,
National Treasury must intervene.
The Public Audit Amendment Act has unfortunately not helped us
to get rid of wasteful unauthorised and fruitless expenditure.
Unless there is consequence management, the allocation of
resources to government departments and their entities will
remain ... [Inaudible.] By the way, we support the Bill. Thank
you.
Mr W M MADISHA: Deputy Speaker, what we are faced with is a
song. Every year we rise, we stand here, clap our hands and
say, the Bill is right, or the Bill is not correct. But what I
want to emphasise is that we must follow the truth and
indicate that the people of South Africa need the necessary.
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They need the necessary. Allow me to use that ... [Inaudible.]
...
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: They have the necessary!
Mr W M MADISHA: ... they want the necessary. [Interjections.]
Exactly.
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: They have the necessary!
Mr W M MADISHA: Because you do not know the necessary. That is
why you can rise and say that, okay? They need food. They do
not have food. They need education. They need all the basics.
That is what the people of South Africa want. They need jobs.
There are no jobs. Everything that is being said here is
something that has been said every year. Hence, I say it has
now become a song that we shall come here and sing every year.
The people of South Africa are not happy. Why? Because if you
were to, like you are doing anyway, continue to give them only
R350 every month ...
IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHUKISWA KOMPHAKATHI: Uzocula wedwa
wena.
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English:
Mr W M MADISHA: ... they cannot survive. They cannot survive
because they cannot buy food for a month using that amount of
money. We have, in South Africa, more than 700 SOEs. Most of
which are not important, but all those particular SOEs are
getting lots and lots of money from these Bills that you are
talking about, and it is just extremely useless.
We are going to be discussing many of them as you go on with
the Bills, budget, etc. But the fact is that many of them are
just useless. Money is getting lost. Even all of us here do
not know even some of those SOEs, but we go on and say they
must get money and the people of South Africa must go on
hungry.
The provinces, you know when we started with the new
government, when we went to the negotiations for those of you
who were not there when we went to the Convention for a
Democratic South Africa, Codesa, we said that the provinces
must be there. Why? Because of there had to be a compromise.
We had to say that there must be a compromise.
[Interjections.] That is why you have at this kind of thing.
Yes, I was there before you came in, for more than 30 years.
We went to there. Now ... [Interjections.] ... there was no
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Cope ... [Interjections.] ... now there is no accountability
be it in the ... [Interjections.] ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Order! Hon Madisha, your teaching
lesson is over, sir. [Interjections.]
Mr W M MADISHA: Thank you. Okay. Thank you.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No hon members, you just reminded him of
his position. Yes.
Mr A N SARUPEN: Mr Deputy Speaker, I am very disturbed by what
I have heard from the members of the governing party in this
debate today. And let me start with hon Dikgale She spoke
about the Public Transport Network Grant, PTNG, ...
IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHURHUKISWA KOMPHAKATHI: Hhawu! Uhlale
udidekile wena. Wena uhlale udidekile ...
English:
... all the time.
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The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Deputy Speaker, on a
point of order: I want to appeal that the ICT people look at
the sound because we cannot hear them properly. It is like
they are in a hole.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is being attended to. It is being
attended to. Okay! Go ahead hon Sarupen.
Mr A N SARUPEN: Deputy Speaker, I hope it does not affect my
time. As I said, I was disturbed by what I heard from the
members of ... [Interjections.] ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please do not worry about the time,
please. Members, all of you, do not talk about the time. We
have got a clock here which we are running. Why do you assume
we do not have a comprehension of such a simple idea? Please,
no man, do not insult us. Just go ahead and speak. We will
give you the time you deserve. Thank you.
Mr A N SARUPEN: ...so, Deputy Speaker, there was a
contradiction between what was said here today and what was
said in the committee on the PTNG grant, the ANC members of
the appropriation committee ...
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Just pause! Just pause! ICT, try and ...
hon members, it is okay. Please leave it in our hands. Thank
you for giving us feedback, but you do not have to scream
about it. Kindly do not do that. [Interjections.] Hon Boroto,
if it was that easy we would not be sitting here saying what
we are saying, just switch off ... [Laughter.] Please tell us
to proceed if you are ready. Is that okay? Hon Sarupen, please
try to speak so that we can hear.
Mr A N SARUPEN: Deputy Speaker, I hope you can hear me more
clearly now.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, we can hear you now. Please go ahead.
Mr A N SARUPEN: Thank you very much. So there is a
contradiction between what the ANC members say in the
committee and in the House under the PTNG grant. The City of
Cape Town came to the committee and showed us how they saved
money by properly planning and that they were efficient in
meeting their targets, and achieved massive cost savings for
the project. They were praised by the Department of Transport
and National Treasury, and they were even thanked for freeing
money for other municipalities.
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And today we have ANC members condemning the City of Cape Town
for making more money available to other municipalities while
fulfilling their budget targets. And the MyCiTi bus route has
13 stops across Khayelitsha alone. So saying that it does not
stop in Khayelitsha, as I was saying to the debate today, is
completely a fabrication and not aligned with reality. So that
is problem number one. The second problem is that hon
Buthelezi concluded his speech by telling us that if we do not
support this Bill, we do not support infrastructure. We do not
support the R350. We do not support all sorts of other things.
And that's also not true because this Bill is the Division of
Revenue Bill. Those proposals are contained in the
Appropriations Bill. The Division of Revenue Bill slices the
pie for provinces and local municipalities. The EFF member
even made this point. So saying that to vote against this Bill
is to be voting against the R350 Social Relief of Distress
grant is not congruent with reality.
So we must debate the correct Bills when we come to this
House. We can save that debate for the Appropriations Bill in
the next quarter. But not supporting this Bill means you do
not support corruption. It means you are against the collapse
of services and it means that you are against extremist
policies. And this particular Bill ...
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IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHUKISWA KOMPHAKATHI: Nangu umuntu
oculayo. Nguwe lo oculayo la.
English:
Mr A N SARUPEN: ... has helped in undoing some of the problems
of last year’s Division of Revenue Bill, which I described as
a slash and burn budget because it slashed a lot of frontline
services, health care and education from the provinces. Two-
thirds of the budget spent by the provinces is approximately
on health care and education.
And last year, because the national Ministers did not want the
cuts in their own departments sacrificed services like health
care and education delivered by the provinces. This begins to
correct it and I believe it is because we have got a Finance
Minister who appears to take his job seriously and actually
cares about the state of this country.
When you consider that eight provinces combined have overspent
by an estimated R20 billion last year, it almost totals the
additional amounts of money allocated this year. And so we are
not fixing the fundamental problem and that is we are not
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going to get health care and education back up to where it
should be.
And the allocation to the provinces for health and education
is still below what they would have been in the peak COVID-19
projections, even though the national government’s slice is
higher. And we have seen the long-term trend towards cutting
grants allocated to the provinces and local governments to
fund pet projects by the national Ministers.
As for local governments, 68% of them are in distress. And
services are collapsing. The Free State is illustrative of
this. In Mangaung, one of only two metros still with an ANC
majority government, it has collapsed to the point where for
most of this week the municipality has not had any water and
refuse trucks are set alight and the service delivery protests
as a consequence of that. And now there is no refuse removal.
This is a city of 600 000 people that cannot provide water. It
is a massive disaster. Water is life. And not a single Free
State municipality has achieved a clean or positive audit
outcome since 2016. The biggest debt to Eskom from the
municipalities is from the Free State. And before the change
of the government last year, the Maluti-a-Phofung Municipality
had not paid a cent of its R5,4 billion debts to Eskom.
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Matjhabeng has collapsed the point where it has reverted to
the stone age barter system where it traded R2,5 billion worth
of ... [Time expired.]
Mr X S QAYISO: Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker, hon
Madisha, you should have known better while you were a
president of Cosatu and decided to run away from a democratic
revolutionary movement, taking a detour to a reactionary
organisation and then you come and tell us that there was a
sold out at a Convention for a Democratic SA, CODESA, level.
The ANC unequivocally supports the 2022 Division of Revenue
Bill. This year’s budget waters the seeds for economic renewal
and growth. We are confident that through this budget, the
seeds of renewal and growth will bear the fruits and juices.
The 2022 Division of Revenue Bill demonstrates the caring
nature of government and it is redistributive as it seeks to
protect lives and livelihoods of the most vulnerable. We must
never forget our humanity and we should also put the people
before profit maximisation.
The government’s response to the deadline coronavirus must be
applauded whilst the virus is still with us and will continue
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to be with us in the near future. Government is intelligently
navigating the process of economic recovery and saving lives.
Those who believe that we would not be able to secure
sufficient vaccines for our people should be hanging their
heads in shame. Today, we are not debating whether there are
enough vaccines but are trying to persuade people to get
vaccinated including those who are using religion to abdicate
their responsibility. Credit must be given where it is due.
Anyone who says this is not a caring government would be
dishonest.
We welcome an extension of the R350 social relief of distress
grant - hon Kwankwa ...
IsiXhosa:
Naba baphaya ezilalini bayayamkela loo nto, ukuba awuyazi.
English:
- for a period of 12 months at an estimated cost of
R44 billion. This stimulus will increase aggregate demands and
contribute towards the growth of our economy. Over and above,
this provides the much-needed relief to the poor and the
unemployed individuals.
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The progressive interventions by the ANC government in
response to the pandemic has shown without doubt the important
role that the state plays and which it should continue playing
in the revitalisation of our economy. We simply cannot leave
everything to the invisible hand of the market as some of the
opposition parties believe. The fact of the matter is that the
market will not correct past injustices and structural
imbalances of the past. Without the deliberate intervention of
the government in the economy, transformation will forever
remain a pipedream.
The provincial allocations over the Medium-Term Expenditure
Framework, MTEF, increases from 41,2% in 2022-23 to 41,4% as
part of the Presidential Employment Initiative. As proposed, a
total of R12,7 billion is added to the provincial education
departments to continue hiring the assistants in schools as
part of the Presidential Employment Initiative. This will have
a huge mitigating impact on unemployment levels and give
particularly young people work experience.
The R3,3 billion is added to the Human Resources and Training
grant to address funding of shortfalls for medical interns and
community service doctors. A total of R24,6 billion is added
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to the provincial equitable share to support provincial
education departments.
A proposed total of R1 billion for the 2022-23 financial year
to the COVID-19 component of District Health Programme grant
to fund the continuation of COVID-19 vaccine rollout. A
further R398 million in 2022-23 and R475 million over the
2023-24 financial year for Human Settlements Development grant
will contribute to the transformation of the apartheid spatial
development and make our cities more inclusive – not what is
happening here in Cape Town. Four hundred and seventy-one
million to the educational infrastructure grant and
R784 million to the provincial roads maintenance grant. We
must emphasize that the money which is budgeted and supposed
to be used for provincial roads maintenance grant should be
used so that it is not returned to Treasury. I am referring to
roads like one in Wolmaransstad, N12 and N8, which are in a
very bad state. We cannot return money to Treasury while we
have such challenges.
The investment infrastructure is integrated into these
allocations, which is a critical driver to the Economic
Recovery Plan.
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The fact that the DA’s racist policies refuse to extend basic
services to poor people ... [Laughter.] ... in Gugulethu,
Mitchells Plain and Khayelitsha whereas the national
government makes available resources to you, the DA, here in
Cape Town. You continue with racist policies that exclude
black people in the Western Cape. [Interjections.] You are
perfecting your separate development of the herrenvolk in the
Western Cape. We want that situation to come to an end. What
you do in these two cities? One is the privileged, which is
mainly white and provided with all the services and another
for the black majority, which is neglected; living in squalor
and poverty. You even refuse to extend transport services to
black people. You would rather return money to Treasury than
give to the poor what our government offers you. You have
absolutely no shame.
In conclusion, building a developmental state requires the
state of plan, intricate and decisive role in the economy. The
state cannot be a spectator when there are structural
challenges in our economy and when the vast majority of our
people are unemployed and live in poverty.
The intervention in the 2022-23 Division of Revenue Bill are
pro-development and pro-poor. As the ANC, we welcome the
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Division of Revenue Bill. I thank you very much. [Time
expired.] ... [Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Deputy Minister of Finance.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE: Deputy Speaker and hon members
...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Order, hon Mazzone. Hon Mazzone ...
[Interjections.]
UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER: Try Sepedi.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please don’t go there!
AN UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER: Try Sepedi. Try speaking in Sepedi.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, hon members, please!
AN UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER: It can’t be corrected in English. They
must correct African languages well.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, don’t turn this into that.
This is not a platform for what you are doing now. We’ll open
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up some rooms next door. It’s a good place for you to sort
that out, yes.
IsiXhosa:
Nifundisane nangesintu.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon David Masondo, Deputy Minister of
Finance.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE: Deputy Speaker and hon
members, this Debate on the Division of Revenue ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Deputy Minister, oh please! I think I
can say this to you. Can you do something about lighting where
you are sitting? We can’t really see you but okay, I shouldn’t
focus on that. I’m making a mistake but please let’s do
something about it and talk to us so that we hear too. When
you sit back we can’t hear properly as well. Yes, get closer
to your mic or something.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE: I hope it’s better, Deputy
Speaker.
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: It’s getting better. Thank you very much.
[Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: House Chairperson.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no, there’s no House Chairperson
right now! [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, if I may, I
believe that the colour of that is ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no, hon member! Let’s not discuss
... Hon Mazzone, please I don’t need help on that matter.
[Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: ... [Inaudible.] ... can sit
here.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no! The answer is no, hon Mazzone.
The answer is no! Please, no! [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: But we can’t see.
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please, no, hon Mazzone, we are sorting
out the problem. [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: We can’t see.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, I don’t need your help.
Afrikaans:
Hoekom maak julle so ’n geraas? Wat gaan aan met julle?
[Tussenwerpsels.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: They can’t see on the
screen.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no! Hon Masondo, please proceed!
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE: Deputy Speaker, I hope I’m
visible. I am at the Investment Conference here in Sandton and
I hope that I’m much more visible. My apologies for that. Hon
members, this Debate on the Division of Revenue takes place in
a context of a very fiscally-constrained environment. Our
public debt is R4 trillion is projected to rise to
R5,4 trillion in the next three years. We will be paying
almost R1 trillion for debt service costs over the next three
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years. Despite these fiscal constraints and the projected low
economic growth, this Division of Revenue Bill is
redistributive and transformative. The total government
expenditure is R2 trillion this financial year.
The Bill before us, Deputy Speaker and the House, does not
only divide our nation’s public funds amongst the three
spheres of government. It also provides for a profound
redistribution of our nation’s resources. Taxes raised
predominantly from better-off citizens mainly in the urban
areas are redistributed to fund services across the country
especially rural areas where they fund schools, clinics and
basic municipal services for poor communities.
A total of 48,8% of the nationally-raised funds are allocated
to national government; 41,4% to provincial government and
9,8% to local government. The Budget is redistributive in
favour of the poor. Fifty-nine per cent of the total non-
interest spending over this period will be allocated to social
wage. Almost all of the grants and programmes in provinces and
municipalities are funded through the Division of Revenue Bill
and are targeted to benefit poor South Africans and this range
from the national School Nutrition Programme which feeds over
nine million learners every day; to the infrastructure grants
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that build schools, roads and houses to those who previously
did not have access these basic services.
Hon members, you’ll recall that our tax revenue estimates are
R182 billion higher than our estimates last year. A portion of
this tax revenue will be used to fund spending pressures in
provinces and municipalities. A total of R78,8 billion is
added to provincial governments to fund spending pressures in
education, health, social development as well as human
settlements. This amount includes allocation for the
continuation of the Presidential Youth Employment Initiatives
for both spheres of government. This additional allocation
reflects the priorities that are put in place by our
government to serve our people.
This Bill is transformative because it facilitates the
transformation of our economy and society by directing scarce
resources towards catalytic investment in physical and human
capital. This includes infrastructure projects being
implemented at Matlosana, Tembisa, amongst other areas to
empower our municipalities to reverse apartheid spatial
development patterns and not only in our Metropolitans but
also in our smaller cities, and measures to respond to job
losses due to the impact of Covid-19.
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Deputy Speaker, several concerns were raised regarding the
conditional grants in relation to, a) the value derived from
these conditional grants; b) the capacity of provinces and
municipalities to spend their allocation; and c) the
proliferation of indirect grants. I would like to assure hon
members and South Africans that we are addressing these
concerns, for example, there’s already a substantial
allocation of resources for capacity-building in the Budget to
enable our municipalities to spend these rants.
In response to several concerns raised regarding the number
and efficacy of these conditional grants, we are reviewing
these conditional grants. Areas of review include the
proliferation of the grants; the performance of direct and
indirect grants; the alignment between relevant provincial
grants and local government grants; departmental oversight
allocation as well as methodologies and classifications that
are being used in allocating these grants; and more
importantly, the link between these grants and their impact on
economic development.
Concerns again have been raised by hon members with respect to
the debt owed by government departments and the private
sector, and are duly noted. But we should note that the
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highest debtors are households. Hon members are reminded that
credit control is squarely in the hands of municipalities. As
part of the revenue management support provided by the
National Treasury, we provide support and advice on
strengthening credit control.
However, implementation of these measures is the
responsibility of municipalities. The disconnection practice
started by Polokwane Municipality a while ago, now carried out
by the City of Tshwane and the City of Johannesburg should be
undertaken by all our municipalities to ensure their financial
viability.
Compensation of employees does continue to account for a
significant share of provincial budgets but this is because
the major sectors by budget and size, i.e. health and
education, are very labour intensive. As noted in the previous
Budget in a bid to reduce the wage bill, several measures are
in place including prioritisation of posts to be filled due to
natural attrition. Next week government will be discussing
some of these issues in the Public Sector Labour Summit.
Hon members ...
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much. Hon Minister, I’m
afraid your time has expired. You better wrap up in one
sentence, sir. [Interjections.]
AN UNIDENTIFIED MEMBER: Yes.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE: [Inaudible.] ... impact of
allocation will depend on provinces and municipalities and we
hope that the will do the right thing in spending this money
to benefit South Africans. Thank you, Deputy Speaker. [Time
expired.]
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Bill be read a second time.
Division demanded.
The House Divided.
The Acting Speaker announced that the Speaker had determined
that, in accordance with the Rules, a manual voting procedure
would be used and that the whips would conduct a headcount of
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members in the chamber and on the virtual platform for the
purpose of ascertaining quorum and voting.
A quorum being present in terms of Rule 98(1), voting
commenced.
Voting:
[TAKE IN FROM MINUTES]
Question agreed to.
Bill accordingly read a second time.
CONSIDERATION OF RECOMMENDATION OF CANDIDATES TO FILL FOUR
VACANCIES ON COUNCIL OF INDEPENDENT COMMUNICATIONS AUTHORITY
OF SOUTH AFRICA, ICASA
CONSIDERATION OF RECOMMENDATION OF CANDIDATES TO FILL TWO
VACANCIES ON MEDIA DEVELOPMENT AND DIVERSITY AGENCY, MDDA,
BOARD
CONSIDERATION OF RECOMMENDATION OF CANDIDATE TO FILL A VACANCY
ON SOUTH AFRICAN BROADCASTING CORPORATION (SABC) BOARD
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Mr B M MANELI: Hon Chair, hon members, hon Ministers, Deputy
Ministers, committee support staff, fellow South Africans, the
Portfolio Committee on Communications has received the
referrals from the Speaker of the National Assembly in line
with the request from the respective Ministers for the filling
of two vacancies for the Media Development and Diversity
Agency, MDDA board, one vacancy for the SABC board and four
vacancies in the Council Of Independent Communications
Authority Of South Africa, ICASA council and followed all
processes as ... [Inaudible.] ... in Media Development and
Diversity Agency Act, 2002 (Act No 14 of 2002), Broadcasting
Act, 1999 (Act No 4 of 1999) and ICASA of 2000, Act No 13 of
2000 respectively.
In line with the provision of Rule 151 and 172 of the National
Assembly Rules, the committee appointed three subcommittees
proportional to representations of parties in the National
Assembly to shortlist, interview and deliberate on candidates
to be recommended to the committee. The committee received a
report from the subcommittees which reflected consensus
decision reached by three subcommittees on candidates to be
recommended.
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On the 15 March 2022, the committee unanimously agreed to
adopt the detailed report circulated to all hon members of
this House. The committee taking into account both existing
boards and council members and council members and candidates
to be recommended in their respective entities in terms of
skills set, demographics, task attend and the performance of
candidates in the interviews, recommends the following
candidates to be considered for appointment in line with
applicable legislative prescripts as follows: On the MDDA
board, the first one is Ms Martina Della-Togna and the second
one is Ms Carol Mohlala. On the SABC board where there was
vacancy, is Dr Renee Horne. In the ICASA council where there
are four vacancies, they are Adv Dimakatso Qocha, who is a
returning councillor, Ms Nompucuko Nontombana, Ms Dikeledi
Mushi, Ms Thabisa Faye, Ms Ntombiza Sithole, Ms Sesethu Gqomo
and Ms Rossana Gell.
Key observations to making the recommended ... [Inaudible.]
... is that of the seven candidates in the ICASA, instead of
the six minimum requirement from which the Minister will
select the four for appointment. This is informed by the
financial prudency on the side of the committee in case of
declines given the time it has taken to finalize the report as
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well as the committee’s experience with regard to previous
appointments.
The other very important observation is that all candidates
recommended happen to be women. However, their recommendation
is not only about agenda, but their skills and high levels of
performance in the interviews. Hon members, in conclusion,
allow me to quote the late President of the ANC O R Tambo,
when he recognised a leader who happened to be a woman. In his
address to the conference of the Women’s Section of the ANC in
Angola on the 14 September 1991, and I quote:
Women in the ANC should stop behaving as if there was no
place for them above the level of certain categories of
involvement. They have a duty to liberate us men from
antique concepts and attitudes about the place and role
of women in society and the development and direction of
our revolutionary struggle. In fear of being a failure.
Comrade Lindiwe Mabuza cried and sobbed and ultimately
collapsed on top of herself when she learnt she had been
appointed ANC Chief Representative to the Scandinavian
countries. But, looking at the record, could any man have
done-better?
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I am therefore presenting these candidates once more, not just
because they are women, but because on record, they are proper
and fit to serve as leaders in these entities. I therefore,
thank you, House Chairperson. [Applause.]
Declarations of Votes:
Ms T BODLANI: House Chair, the DA notes and supports the
process to fill vacancies in the boards of the Media
Development and Diversity Agency and Independent
Communications Authority of South Africa as carried out by the
Portfolio Committee on Communications. Myself and hon Solly
Malatsi, the DA Whip, paused to appreciate the contribution of
our predecessor in this committee, hon Zach Mbhele. His
dedication and participation made it possible for us, as new
appointees to the committee, to ensure that each candidate in
each entity had a fair chance based on the interviews, as we
relied on his insight as well as knowledge and his guidance.
It is worth noting that the various committee discussions that
finalise the recommendations subsequent to the short listing
were refreshingly inclusive of all parties in the subcommittee
and sought to seek consensus to ensure that there is a fair
balance accommodating the different parties’ preferred
candidate based on their skills and expertise. According to
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the MDDA Act, the board consists of nine members, six of which
must be appointed by the President following recommendations
by this House.
Currently, the board consists of seven members due to the term
of former board member, Ms Martina Della-Togna and Dr Nombeko
Mbava. Their term both ended on October 2020 respectively. A
total of 56 nominations were received and 13 candidates were
shortlisted. A subcommittee on communication was tasked to
recommend two candidates from the list of shortlisted
candidates to the President to make the final appointment.
On the 15 March 2022, the committee met to consider the
recommendations of the subcommittee which deliberated in the
interviews and found consensus, recommending that Ms Martina
Della-Togna Ms Carol Mohlala be appointed to fill the two
vacancies on the MDDA board. The DA believes that these two
candidates are arguably the best balance of skills and
expertise in human resources that the MDDA needs at this time.
On the SABC, the vacancy was left by the resignation of Ms
Bernedette Muthien. The DA notes that Dr Renee Horne
demonstrated solid understanding and innovative insight on how
to modernize the SABC, especially liberating newer business
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model, international best practices and its dormant in house
assets. We therefore congratulate and welcome the appointment.
We further note that the appointment to the SABC board is for
the unexpired portion of the period of the vacating member
which will then end on the 26 September 2022.
According to the ICASA Act, the council consists of nine
members appointed by the Minister. Currently, the council
consists of five members. A consensus was reached to ensure
that all candidates who were ranked highest by different
parties are recommended. These are Adv Dimakatso Qocha, Ms
Nompucuko Nontombana, Ms Dikeledi Mushi, Ms Thabisa Faye, Ms
Ms Sesethu Gqomo, Ms Rossana Gell, and Ms Ntombiza Sithole.
The DA is happy for this House to approve the names for
submission to the Minister of Communications and Digital
Technologies in order for her to appoint four from these seven
candidates as ICASA councillors. This is to avoid a situation
where it would be impossible for one candidate or the other to
take up the appointment and then we do not need to reconvene
the appointments.
In closing, the DA wishes to thank all the candidates who had
applied to the different boards and wish the very best to the
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nominated candidates as they continue to build a South Africa
as envisioned by the DA where each citizen enjoys their
freedom in a fair country with ample opportunities. The DA
supports the report.
Mr A MATUMBA: The EFF participated in this process and we are
pleased that overwhelmingly the portfolio has recommended the
appointment of females predominantly for these vacancies. All
candidates are worthy candidates. Dr Renee is an accomplished
academic from Wits, and their track record speaks for itself.
We hope that she will maintain her integrity and independence
in the toxic fire that the SABC board has developed a
reputation for being over the past couple of years.
We need people who are going to work tirelessly to save the
SABC and to position it as the prime news source for the
majority of our people. It must remain independent and not be
the mouth piece of the ruling leaches. We are pleased that the
Media Development and Diversity Agency, MDDA, has decided to
retain outstanding women leaders such as Ms Martina Della-
Togna and Carol Mohlala. We remember the struggles Ms Della-
Togna went through when she demanded accountability from the
MDDA in 2017. We are pleased that she is back in the board
again, and we hope that she and the team will work tirelessly
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to support the community radio stations which are an
invaluable source of news for many of our people.
The appointments at ICASA are also of credible women leaders.
We are proud that this committee has acknowledged women
leadership in this way. We are, however, not pleased that it
has taken this long to fill these vacancies. The SABC and the
MDDA vacancies come from way back in 2020. It has taken almost
two years to fill them. This committee must do better. We are
in support of the recommendations. Thank you, Chairperson.
Ms Z MAJOZI: Hon House Chair, the Independent Communications
Authority of South Africa’s responsibilities are directly
linked to the lifeblood of our economy, with the authority
being responsible for regulating the telecommunication
broadcasting and postal industries in the public’s interest
and ensuring affordable services of a high quality for all
South Africans. This decision taken by the Icasa councillors
therefore has a direct impact on the daily lives of South
Africans. For this reason, they are held to a high standard.
With this in mind, the IFP is pleased to confirm that the
appointment process undertaken by the portfolio committee to
fill four vacancies adhered to all the necessary requirements
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as pertained to openness, transparency and public
participation. Further the committee submitted additional
names to assist the appointment authority in an event that one
of the appointed councillors vacated office a few months after
his or her appointment.
We also take note the importance of the Media Development and
Diversity Agency in providing access to diversified media for
all cannot be overstated. The media is tasked with appointing
the development of a vibrant, innovative, sustainable and
people-centred community media sector through resourcing
knowledge-based search and capacity building in order to give
a voice to the historically disadvantaged. Furthermore, the
MDDA board appointment should be afforded the same importance
and urgency as all other entities that fall under the
department’s preview. Considering the footprint of community
media, one almost feels it appropriate to appoint and make
sure that the MDDA provides the mainstream of local radio
station.
The SABC has an essential role to play in our democracy
ensuring that the public at large is kept up to date on
current affairs so that they can make informed choices about
issues that impact their day to day lives.
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As part of the seven-member subcommittee established to
consider the 69 nominations received, we are confident that
the shortlisting process identified the best candidates, and
further following interviews identified the best candidates to
fill the vacant board seats. We suggest ways to fast track the
appointment process in the case of an unexpected resignation
be explored. It is essential, however, that transparency and
integrity of the appointment process is not compromised. The
IFP accepts all three reports. Thank you, Chair.
Mr W M THRING: Hon House Chair, in considering these three
reports from the Portfolio Committee on Communications the
ACDP is cognisant that these vacancies arose either as a
result of resignations or the term of office expiring in the
entities of Independent Communications Authority of SA, ICASA,
Media Development and Diversity Agency, MDDA, and the SA
Broadcasting Corporation, SABC.
All three reports speak of the establishment of seven-member
multiparty subcommittees to oversee the process of filling the
vacancies where after the subcommittees met to consider the
criteria and skills required to fill these vacancies.
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What was interesting for the ACDP was to observe that in all
three reports there was unanimity in the shortlisting process
as well as in the final selection of the successful
candidates.
Hon House Chair, in the portfolio committees where the ACDP
has representation we have often been critical of the
departments and the entities where critical posts that have
been budgeted for, yet these posts are not filled.
This practice cannot be tolerated, particularly with the high
unemployment rate that South Africa currently has.
The ACDP congratulates the successful candidates and wishes
them well as they fulfil their mandates to serve the best
interests of all South Africans.
The ACDP accepts these reports and supports them. Thank you.
IsiXhosa:
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Sihlalo weNdlu, siyi-UDM sizigqalile,
saziqwalasela, sazihla’mahlongwane zonke ezi ngxelo ngelithi
sibona ukuba bonke abantu abatyunjiweyo apha ukuze bakhokele
la maqumrhu ohlukeneyo banelungelo nesakhono sokulawula.
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Eyona nto sifuna ukuyithetha yile ithi, kudala sisima apha
sincome abantu abantu sisithi ...
English:
... they have the credentials and the necessary experience ...
IsiXhosa:
... bafike bawamoshe la maqumrhu, sibe thina sikhumshe
kamnandi apha ...
English:
... wax and lyrical. It’s important that ...
IsiXhosa:
... singahoyi iziqinisekiso (credentials) zabo...
English:
... that they must go. The only thing that they’ve been able
to prove so far is that they are fit for purpose. Now, what is
important is that they must go there and do a proper job in
these entities.
All our state-owned enterprises, SOEs, and most of our boards
have been run to the ground by people who were fit for purpose
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and we stood here in these podiums and we waxly re[Inaudible.]
how competent they were.
IsiXhosa:
Eyona nto isiyifunayo ...
English:
... they must go there like ... you have this Dr Renee; she
must make sure that she’s not captured by the factional
battles in that SABC board, where it becomes a messy political
playground for politicians before elections, they are pulled
in all directions.
Others in MDDA must make sure that media development and
diversity and that they support community radio stations and
small commercial media and ICASA.
Up until they understand the mandate and they make sure that
in the work they do they are true to the mandate of these
entities ...
IsiXhosa:
... siza kumana sisithi ...
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English:
... they have qualifications and credentials ...
IsiXhosa:
... bemosha. Bawamoshile amaqhumrhu karhulumente kwaye baninzi
English:
... but is think what is go is that for the first in a very
long time ...
IsiXhosa:
... apha enxulumene nathi inamanina. Masithi, malibongwe!
Basebenze kakuhle. Enkosi.
English:
We support the report. [Applause.]
Mr S M JAFTA: House Chairperson, this report seems to be the
well-supported report by all political parties who
participated in the processes ...
IsiXhosa:
Masiyincome ke loo nto.
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English:
As the AIC we also support the report.
Mr W M MADISHA: House Chair and the hon members, I must say
that what the committee did needs to be accepted. When it came
to the identification of the people who are now presented
before yourselves, when it came to that it was professionally
done, all the parties agreed, the interviews were conducted
professionally, it was agreed by all the parties. So, you have
some form of unanimity.
I think it’s the first time and we wish to hope that they will
be able to move forward and do that which they are supposed to
do.
What one can, therefore, say is that they must not do that
which was done by the others in the past of concentrating on
particular people and trying or going on to elevate certain
things which were wrong. We have examples, some of those
particular people who did wrong things have either been kicked
out of those particular institutions like the SABC; some of
those particular people stole a lot and we hope that these
ones that are being presented to you will be able to do that
which they are supposed to do.
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As Cope, therefore, say, please let’s agree. Thank you very
much. [Applause.]
Ms N J KUBHEKA: Hon House Chairperson, hon members and fellow
South Africans, as introduced by the Chairperson of the
Portfolio Committee of Communications and Digital
Technologies, hon Maneli, today we table the committee’s
recommended candidates for the appointment of one candidate to
serve on the SA Broadcasting Corporation, SABC, board, four
councillors out of seven that have been recommended to serve
on the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa,
Icasa, board and two candidates to serve on the Media
Development and Diversity Agency, MDDA. Hon members, not only
this critical for the constitutionality of these respective
structures, it is fundamental to the effective execution of
their mandates. It is the ANC’s firm believe that public
ownership is necessary in critical sectors of the economy and
that the country needs robust state-owned enterprises that are
able to drive economic growth and transformation.
According to the organisation for economic co-operation and
development state-owned enterprises play a vital role in terms
of the direct services they provide to the community,
particularly in the provision of the basic services such as
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access to water, electricity, sanitation and transportation.
State-owned enterprises, SOEs, also contributes to poverty
alleviation and the creation of employment as well as marvel
as the successes of People’s Republic of China which has grown
its economy for the better quality of life of their people. It
is worth reflecting on the contribution of their state-owned
companies into their economy. In the midst of the deadly
coronavirus the spokesperson of the State-Owned Asset
Supervision and Administration Commission, Mr Peng Huagang,
reported that in 2021, the global operating revenue of their
state-owned companies, SOCs, stood at ¥36,33 trillion
reflecting an increase of 19,5% when compared to the previous
year. This is an average by annual growth rate of 8,2%.
Hon House Chairperson, the ANC remains committed to ...
[Inaudible.] our SOEs of corruption and to implementing
reforms that will enable them to function optimally so that
they better serve the needs of our people. The entities we are
discussing today have had their fair share of challenges and
it is still going to take more work and dedication from all
the boards and management to work collectively to get them
into better shape.
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With regard to Icasa, there being said the ANC is happy to
announce that as pronounced by our Excellency hon President
Ramaphosa in his state of the nation address Icasa has,
indeed, concluded a successful auction of high-demand
spectrum. The auction involved six qualified bidders, namely:
Cell C, Liquid Intelligent Technologies, Mobile
Telecommunications Network, MTN, Rain Network, Telkom and
Vodacom. The revenue collected from this auction total more
than R14,4 billion which will go to the national fiscus. This
is a total amount generated from the Opt-In phase auction
which took place on 8 March 2022, and the main auction stage,
which commenced on 10 March 2022 and concluded on the 17 March
2022. We commend Icasa for seeing this process through
following many years of delays and frustrating litigation
processes.
With regard to the SABC, the SABC is slowly but surely
reaching stability with 93% completion of the implementation
of its turnaround strategy. However, we employ the SABC to
effect its strategies to generate more revenue so that it is
self-sustainable. The MDDA is hard at work towards pursuit of
investors to invest in community and small commercial media.
Government funding alone is not enough. Therefore, we welcome
the initiatives that the agency has come up with to attract
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possible investors in the form of the funder breakfast and the
grant funding outreach programme. These are the just some of
the highlights worth noting in the three entities and we are
confident that the candidates as recommended by the portfolio
committee will be up to the task and they will hit the ground
running to enhance the work that is already been done.
The ANC supports Dr Renee Horne to be appointed to fill the
vacancy of the SABC board. We further support the names of
Advocate Dimakatso Qocha, Ms Nompucuko Nontombana, Ms Dikeledi
Mushi, Ms Thabisa Faye, Ms Ntombiza Sithole, Ms Sesethu Gqomo
and Ms Rossana Gell for submission to the Minister of
Communications and Digital Technologies in order for her to
appoint four from the seven candidates as Icasa councillors.
Lastly, we also support that National Assembly approve the
names of Ms Martina Della-Togna and Ms Carol Mohlala for
appointment to the MDDA board for a full four-year term. Hon
House Chair, I thank you.
Question put: That Advocate Dimakatso Qocha, Ms Nompucuko
Nontombana, Ms Dikeledi Mushi, Ms Thabisa Faye, Ms Ntombiza
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Sithole, Ms Sesethu Gqomo and Ms Rossana Gell be recommended
for appointment to the Council of Independent Communications
Authority of South Africa.
Question agreed to.
Advocate Dimakatso Qocha, Ms Nompucuko Nontombana, Ms Dikeledi
Mushi, Ms Thabisa Faye, Ms Ntombiza Sithole, Ms Sesethu Gqomo
and Ms Rossana Gell accordingly recommended for appointment to
the Council of Independent Communications Authority of South
Africa.
Question put: That Ms Martina Della-Togna and Ms Carol Mohlala
be recommended for appointment to the Media Development and
Diversity Agency Board.
Question agreed to.
Ms Martina Della-Tonga and Ms Carol Mohlala accordingly
recommended for appointment to the Media Development and
Diversity Agency Board.
Question put: That Dr Renee Horne be recommended for
appointment to the board of the SA Broadcasting Corporation.
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Question agreed to.
Dr Renee Horne accordingly recommended for appointment to the
board of the SA Broadcasting Corporation.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC
ENTERPRISES ON OVERSIGHT VISIT TO TRANSNET
Mr K E MAGAXA: The Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises
is presenting before the National Assembly, the Report of the
Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises on an Oversight
Visit to Transnet. The oversight visit to Transnet Port
Terminals and Transnet National Port Authority at the Port of
Cape Town was to assess capabilities and operations of these
divisions. The oversight visit was undertaken on the 4 May
2021. The Committee also visited the Transnet Engineering and
Transnet Freight Rail at the Bellville Campus and Transnet
Property on the 5 May 2021.
Transnet plays a critical role in the movement of goods and
freight in the country, but the ports are critical
infrastructure for the export and import of goods and
machinery. Transnet is a strategic logistics company in the
economy of the country. In the case of the Western Cape, the
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Port plays a critical role in the export of agricultural
products.
The purpose of the visit by the committee was to familiarise
itself with the nature of the operations and capabilities of
the entity. Furthermore, the committee sought to assess the
developmental impact of infrastructure development as well as
the operations in terms economic benefit for the immediate
communities. This was assessed in relation to job creation,
skills development, promotion of local businesses especially
SMME’s and transformation. These are critical priority areas
for the implementation of Government policy.
The committee received a number of presentations which were
informative on the operations as well as the weaknesses and
challenges experienced by the entity. It is concerning that
Transnet is constrained in the Cape Town port as it only has
two berths out of nine to utilise. This means that the private
sector dominates the use of the berths. It is also critical
that contracts with workers are sorted to create certainty.
The property division should ensure that upgrade of the
different properties occurs to enhance value for the entity.
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The observations and recommendations report highlights a
number of bottlenecks and challenges. It is imperative that
these are resolved as Transnet plays a critical logistics role
in the economy. Transnet has presented a turnaround strategy
which is captured in the report and it is imperative that the
plan is implemented as this will facilitate economic growth
and development in the country.
The report reflects turnaround plans for all divisions which
were part of the oversight visit and these plans identify
challenges and remedies. Therefore, observations and
recommendations of the report must be implemented and the
Committee must be kept abreast on the developments on a
quarterly basis.
The Minister needs to form a stakeholder forum to ensure that
all issues raised in the report are dealt with in order to
improve the efficiency of the functioning of the Port of Cape
Town. Such oversight visits are critical for ensuring
heightened oversight, but more importantly for ensuring
inclusive economic growth and development as part of the
Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan, ERRP.
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The portfolio committee will resolutely continue with this
work in conjunction with the key stakeholders to ensure that
the important observations are acted upon and monitor the
implementation of the recommendations of the report. The
portfolio committee approved the report and submits this
report for the consideration of the National Assembly. Thank
you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Chief Whip of the
Majority Party, ...
Setswana:
... re dirang ka pegelo e?
Sesotho:
MOTSOKASEPHADI YA KA SEHLOHONG WA MOKGA WA BONGATA: Ha ke o
lebohe, Modulasetulo. Ke sisinya hore re amohele tlaleho ena.
Ke a leboha.
Setswana:
MODULASETILO WA NTLO (Mme M G BOROTO): Ke leboge. Pele ga gore
re tsitsinye kamogelo e, a ke dumelele bao ba batlang go dira
dikitsiso.
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Declarations of Vote:
Mr G K Y CACHALIA: I wish to make a few brief statements by a
way of declaration here. We were privy to go into Transnet,
and witnessing what they were doing at the ports. We received,
as we usually do, massive PowerPoint presentations about what
is going to be done and how it is to be turned around. But,
the reality that we face is considerably different to the
presentations that we are presented with.
Allow me to refer you to a report, to a column, an editorial
in Business Day, at the beginning of this month, which
lambasted the CEO of Transnet, specifically in terms of ports,
in terms of the promises that were made as a referenced
against what is actually happening.
The fact is that our ports are at the bottom of the global
competitive rankings - worldwide! The fact is that our moves
of containers are the measure of competitiveness at our ports
is extremely poor. The fact is that we have lost out on
exports in minerals, to the tune of about R30 billion, just
because in the face of rising prices and global shortages,
which we have not been able to take advantage of. One company,
Exxaro, has lost something of the order of R5 billion. This is
the parlour state that we find ourselves in, and all we get
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are nebulous statements about how we are going to make
Transnet great again. I wish it could be great again; the fact
is, it is in a dead spiral, like many of our SOEs.
We are witness to a company which once was a cash cow, that is
now actually costing losses that are going to match losses of
other SOEs over time. The blame is always placed at the door
of Covid-19, the weather, etc. But, nothing – nothing – is
being done to turn it around! All we receive is, as I say,
nebulous statements and blame in terms of the SA Coat of Arms,
which is always that – somebody else!
This has to stop, and we need to address this. I hope Transnet
is listening and I hope... [Interjections.] ... and, I
sincerely hope that we address this, because our economic
future depends on this in no uncertain terms. I thank you!
Sepedi:
MODULASETULO WA NTLO: (Moh M G BOROTO): Mma Lubengo! Mma
Lubengo Lorraine! Ke be ke sa nyake go tsena leloko leo le
lego platfomomg ganong.
English:
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Could you please mute! You have been disturbing us for a while
now. Please mute! If you come out again, I will ask ICT to
remove you from the platform. We proceed now and call on the
EFF!
Ms R N KOMANE: House Chair, since 2019, the Portfolio
Committee has made repeated oversight visits to Eskom and
Transnet. In fact, these visits to Transnet are even more
frequent than any other entity. So, almost operations, yet we
still fail to make clear and practical interventions with the
potential to improve the situation at Transnet and Eskom.
Instead, there is just an acceleration of privatisation of
ports and harbours.
Vandalism of Transnet infrastructure is continuing. Trucks
continue to queue longer. Workers continue to be subjected to
poor working conditions and exploitation by labour brokers,
and there is no sign that things are getting better.
We cannot continue to visit Transnet as if it is the only
entity under the portfolio committee. There are other entities
that we are responsible for which are facing equally the
difficult structural problems, some worse than Transnet. We
must visit Denel, SA Airways, SA Express, Safcol and Alexco.
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We have raised this yesterday in a committee meeting, and we
are happy that the committee agreed with us.
Lastly, we have noted a couple of communication by Transnet,
informing the public that transport is doing... [Inaudible.]
... We know this is as a result of the... [Inaudible.] ...
This is going to be abused because the Minister of Public
Enterprises, Mr Jabulani Ntaka, will deal with the...
[Inaudible.] ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): I am sorry, Mama
Komane. I am very sorry! I am sorry Ma Komane. Hon Mpumza! Hon
Mpumza! Mr G G Mpumza!
Mr G G MPUMZA: Yes, Chair!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): No, no, no, no! You
can’t do that to us.
Mr G G MPUMZA: Sorry, Chair! I am sorry, Chairperson!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): You can’t do that to
us! You can’t! Yooh! I am sorry, Mama Komane.
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Sesotho:
Tswela pele mme!
Ms R KOMANE: I am done. Unless, you say I must start again.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): No, no, no! If you were
done, it is fine. I am looking at the time; you still have
time. I thought you are proceeding. We you done?
Ms R KOMANE: Yes! Thank you very much, Chair, I was done.
Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Hon House Chairperson, I am doing this
declaration on behalf of my colleague, Inkosi E M Buthelezi.
Job creation, skills development, promotion of local Small,
Medium and Micro enterprises, SMMEs, and transformation must
be the key component of infrastructure development by
government. Small business operators, particularly small-scale
coal miners are however finding themselves being crowded or
out of the market with high prices being charged for
containers.
Transnet port terminals in Cape Town are facing several
challenges; such as traffic congestion, there have been delays
poor operation performance and poor equipment availability
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reliability and poor state of the information technology, IT,
infrastructure. This, when added to an inclement weather of
Cape Town results in serious delays which hamper economic
growth as an industry that is reliant upon supply via shiping
road would experience delays.
The court equipment which has not been refurbished and is in a
poor state due to budgetary constraints, is a serious concern
which could even lead to bigger delays in future if not
urgently addressed.
We are pleased to note that skills development in respect of
artisan training, particularly youth development in respect of
diesel and electrical mechanics are being offered with some
2 747 employees and 181 youth receiving training to date at a
Transnet academy.
Cable theft remains a serious concern and appears without
solution. Alternate strategies must be implemented as the
current ones are simply not effective.
Hon Chairperson, we must do all that is required to enhance
the economy effectively.
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With regard to the effectiveness of our port operations:
Contractors working at the port of Cape Town should be
encouraged to use local suppliers as subcontractors. Port
management must be made to consult and communicate with civil
society, local business and organised labour on a regular
basis. This will only enhance port services and out puts and
thereby drive greater economic growth. The IFP supports this
report. Thank you. [Applause.]
Afrikaans:
Mnr P MEY: Huisvoorsitter, die VF Plus het kennis geneem van
die verslag oor die besoek aan Kaapstad-hawe. Dit is algemeen
bekend dat die opeenhoping van vragmotors op die hawe een van
die grootste probleme is. Wagtyd is te lank en kos te duur.
Die Kaapstad-hawe is nege dae agter met die op-en aflaai van
vragskepe en vragskepe moet dikwels langer as 10 dae wag
voordat hulle kan vasmeer. Die Kaapstad-hawe word deur die
Wêreldbank as die swakste hawe in Afrika beskou as gevolg van
hul swak hantering van containers. [houers.]
Hawes is so belangrik vir ’n groeiende ekonomie en daarom mag
daar nooit ’n demper op in-en uitvoer geplaas word nie. Die
beleggers is traag om in Suid-Afrika te belê om rede dat
vertragings op hawes groot finansiële verliese meebring. Dit
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is dus belangrik dat hawes baie goed moet funksioneer om
groeiende ekonomieë te bewerkstellig en sodoende ook nuwe
werkgeleenthede te skep.
Op die gebied van landbou ly die boere miljoene rand se skade
as gevolg van swak paaie wat vrugte kneus, asook die
vertragings op hawes wat eenvoudig nie in staat is om die
volumes te hanteer nie. In baie gevalle kom die vrugte te laat
by die oorsee se markte wat lei tot prysverlagings en in
sekere gevalle word dit afgekeur.
Die infrastruktuur van die hawes is al vir jare verwaarloos en
geen nuwe toerusting is aangekoop nie, wat veroorsaak dat die
uitvoerders daaronder ly. Die redes vir die swak toestande op
die hawes word dikwels toegeskryf aan stormwinde. Dit is nie
net in Kaapstad-hawe nie maar ook in Port Elizabeth. Die
departement het egter sekere planne in gedagte om die probleem
te oorkom met nuwe toerusting wat ’n positiewe stap is.
Dan, die vragmotor-houer terminus by Kaapstad-hawe is hopeloos
ontoereikend en baie finansies sal bestee moet word om dit reg
te stel. Die departement het hom ook skuldig gemaak aan
onderbesteding van kapitaal teen ’n bedrag van R2,3 miljard
oor die afgelope drie jaar. Die vraag is, wanneer gaan die
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agterstand uitgewis word? Volgens AgriSA het die departement
onlangs sekere oplossings voorgestel op groot, medium en lang
termyn waarvan laasgenoemde die belangrikste is deur die
privaat sektor deel van die oplossing te maak. Die
belangrikheid van die privaat sektor moet nooit onderskat word
nie. Die staat kan nie alles self doen nie. Baie dankie.
Die HUISVOORSITTER (Me M G Boroto): Baie dankie, agb lid. Die
ACDP? Agb Thring?
English:
Mr W M THRING: Sounds like somebody working for Telkom by
calling my surname. Hon House Chairperson, the ACDP in noting
the report, the Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises
visits to Transnet operations in Cape Town also acknowledges
the candid observations and recommendations of the portfolio
committee. The Port of Cape Town continues to face multiple
challenges including insufficient infrastructure investment
and poor maintenance. This contributes to the already
substantial delays created by inclement weather. It is often
said that wind brings the terminal to a halt and this has a
knock on effect and causes much frustration both up and down
stream.
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While little can be done about the weather, it is clear that
insufficient infrastructure investment and poor maintenance
has contributed to the challenges at the Port of Cape Town. It
is no secret that Transnet is struggling to operate optimally.
This is due to a myriad of reasons. The truth be told and it
must be asked: Which or what percentage of the over 100 state-
owned enterprises, SOEs, in South Africa is functioning
efficiently?
The concerns of the portfolio committee captured in their
observations and recommendations of this report is best
illustrated in a News 24 article in the last quarter of 2021
which states and I quote:
As Transnet’s key freight rail divisions continue to
struggle, mining companies depending on it for
transportation bare the brand of its operational challenges.
Exxaro mentioned that export sales, in the first half of the
year ... [Interjections.]
Afrikaans:
Die HUISVOORSITTER (Me M G Boroto): Wie is dit?
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English:
Mandlenkosi? Mandela? Alright. I am very sorry, hon Thring.
Mr W M THRING: Thank you, hon House Chairperson. Let me
continue.
Exxaro mentioned that export sales in the first half of
the year decreased by 1 821 kilotons, which it largely
attributed to the constraints experienced by Transnet
freight rail.
These challenges, range from inadequate locomotive
availability increase cases of cable theft and vandalism of
rail infrastructure.
The diversified coal producer said South African exports, have
lost about nine million tons of coal exports, during the first
half of 2021 due to capacity constraints faced by Transnet
freight rail.
One can only imagine the cost to the rest of the export
sector. Now, transport holds a monopoly of the country’s key
freight rail infrastructure. Any bottlenecks in its value-
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chain have a knock on impact on operations of mining
companies.
The ACDP calls for acts of vandalism and thefts of key state
infrastructure to be classified as acts of treason. These
criminals to be given the harshest punishment, possible as
their crimes not only has destroyed our economy and increased
unemployment, but could also potentially cause the death of
many innocent South Africans. Hon.
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): This is too much. I am
very sorry, hon Thring.
Mr W M THRING: Hon House Chairperson, I certainly think that
those who interfere with speakers while on the podium,
something needs to be done. For it is intolerable.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you very much.
Mr W M THRING: That we have to face such kind of treatment,
while we deliver our speeches. Thank you.
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I know. Hon Chief Whips
and Whips of parties! The hon Mabika! Mabika! Please! Hon
Mabika! You cannot switch on your music; we do not need your
music now! We are in the House and in Chamber, please switch
off your music!
You are still on! Please, can hon Mabika’s Chief Whip or the
Whip, speak to him on the side!
I know he is a DA member! Alright. Thank you, Mme.
I am not calling another member until he has switched off. For
now, there will be music! If something happens – yes hon
member.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon House Chairperson,
respecting your ruling, however, we cannot be held at ransom
by a person on virtual platform. Can that person be removed,
so that we can continue with the business of the day.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Alright. Let me also
treat everybody the same, but this one I doubt if he is nearer
the gadget. That is why I am saying and I am sorry for that.
Hon members we proceed.
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Mr N E DLAMINI: Thank you, House Chair and hon members. An
impression is being created here that everything is bad at
Transnet. It is further spread and supported by the people who
were not even there when we went for our oversight. It’s a
challenge when people want to say that we seem to be focusing
on Transnet more than other entities. They should be present
when we do this oversight so that they know where we are. We
are given an impression here that no, no, no, there seem to be
a special treatment for Transnet, which is not true. Can we
encourage each other, Members of Parliament, to be present
when we do these oversights. It is part of our work so that we
speak from an informed point of view.
You would have noted, hon members, that the Report is specific
in terms of date. We went to visit Transnet last year in May.
However, we are told of an article that was not there when we
went to Transnet. It is a new article which has no bearing on
our Report. We need to be able to speak to what is necessary
and leave what is not necessary. We understand others are
going to try to the best of their might to create an
impression that we need to privatise. Some have even gone as
far as trying to persuade Transnet to use three-setter
machines that will be fetched from Namibia, which has three
years’ life span remaining so that they try and position
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Transnet in Cape Town has more efficient, which is not the
case.
They will say that we must privatised but already seven banks
out of nine are in the private hands yet there is no
improvement in efficiency. So, let us not mislead ourselves
and Members of Parliament. We need to find practical solutions
to Transnet because Transnet plays a critical role in our
economy. Some might want to believe like hon Cachalia that
COVID-19 is an excuse. COVID-19 is a reality. We have been
under lockdown for two years. When we went there it was under
the same lockdown condition and the reality is well
documented.
There was no movement of goods because of the lockdown
globally. So, in us evaluating Transnet it must be borne in
mind that there was minimum and limited movement of goods and
there was no business happening globally. Learn to shut up,
hon Cachalia. I withdraw, I withdraw “shut up” unreservedly.
Ms S GWARUBE: Yes, House Chair, I would like to raise to your
attention that the hon member on the podium has just used
unparliamentary language. Could you, please, make a ruling on
that.
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Thank you very much,
hon Gwarube. It is true that “shut up” is unparliamentary.
Would you, please, withdraw.
Mr N E DLAMINI: ... [Interjections.] ... it is true, Madam
Chair, that I have already withdrawn. Unreservedly withdrawn.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you very much.
You may proceed. Hon Gwarube, may you switch off your
microphone, please.
Mr N E DLAMINI: As I proceed, we do have challenges at
Transnet which were very much presented to us, including cable
theft and what everything that you know, but we also have
another challenge which was also presented to us and it has
been presented in other visits as well, that of capacity in
our railway lines. As a person who wants to smuggle things in
where they don’t belong, you would realise that there’s a new
article as well which is not part of our oversight but it is
an article nonetheless, that we do not have more capacity to
move minerals like manganese and iron ore on our line from
Northern Cape to Saldanha. That is a fact.
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This has a direct impact on our economic growth but it is not
part of our oversight Report. We are here to present a Report
and we want to plead with Parliament to accept and adopt this
Report. This is the business of the day. The rest of the
things that you can discuss, you can discuss till from now
till Jesus comes back if he will come back. However, the co-
business of the day let’s discuss and go through the Report.
No one is saying the Report, doesn’t report that which
transpired. It reflects everything that happened and it
reflects the work that was done.
Let us encourage each other to be part and parcel of oversight
visits. It is part of our job. Let us not translate hearsays
and speak with authority on things that are not factual. Let
us be present, this is what we get paid for and make noise
later, but let us do our work first. I thank you, Chairperson.
There was no debate.
Question put.
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
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UNPARLIAMENTARY LANGUAGE
(Ruling)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Before the hon Dyantyi
takes over the Chair ... yes, it is hon Dyantyi, I said so.
Hon members on the ... order! order! hon members. On 01 March
2022 during notices of motion, the hon G E Hendricks of Al-
Jama-Ah introduced a notice of a motion that, the House
debates and investigation into the integrity of the SA Human
Rights Commission, SAHRC, board based on the commission,
taking the matter of the South African Jewish Board of
deputies to court on the anti-Zionism comments made by former
Congress of South Africa Trade Unions, Cosatu, official Mr
Bongani Masuku.
In addition, the hon Hendricks moved that a new commission
should be elected. A point of order was raised by the hon
Swart from the African Christian Democratic party concerning
the notice of a motion by hon Hendricks contending that the
hon member had cast aspersions on members of the SA Human
Rights Commission, who are appointed by this House. At the
time I undertook to study at the recording and revert back to
the House with a Ruling. Hon members, it is clearly stated in
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Rule 88 that states that in part, in fact, no member may
reflect upon the competence or integrity of a holder of public
office in a state institution supporting constitutional
democracy referred to in section 194 of the Constitution.
Clearly, hon Hendricks’ notice offends against Rule 88 and it
is therefore out of order. It will not be put on the Order
Paper. Thank you very much.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC
ENTERPRISES ON OVERSIGHT VISIT TO ESKOM - MEDUPI AND KUSILE
POWER STATIONS - AND SAFCOL
Ms S GWARUBE: House Chairperson, on a point of order: Minister
Zulu is repeatedly an interruption in this House. And, she
once again has her mic unmuted now. And, so I ask you please,
to please make a ruling on her disrupted behaviour.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr Q R Dyantyi): Hon Gwarube, the point
is duly noted, trust that I would be able to attend to the
issues. Thank you very much.
Mr K E MAGAXA: House Chair, the Portfolio Committee on Public
Enterprises is presenting before the National Assembly, the
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report of the oversight visit to Electricity Supply
Commission, Eskom and South African Forestry Company SOC
Limited, SAFCOL, for consideration. The oversight visit to
Eskom and SAFCOL occurred from 21-24 June 2021. The report was
approved by the portfolio committee. Eskom ‘situation is its
roots in among other things the long lee times of building and
completing coal fire power plants and the rampage corruption
during the hey days of the state capture.
The ANC-led government to Eskom has undertaken a massive build
programme to build Medupi and Kusile coal fire power plants to
increase the generation capacity and address issues of the
electricity security supply in the country. Despite its
effort, Eskom had to implement sever loadsheddings due to
breakdowns and lack of maintenance related issues in the
2020-2021, and this has impacted negatively on how ...
[Inaudible.] ... and the economy.
The oversight to Kusile and Medupi coal fire plants were
necessitated by Eskom’s declining energy availability factor
and particularly the issue that the massive investment
channelled towards the construction of these two coal fire
power plants has not yet responded to the declining energy
availability factor, EAF. The intention of the oversight was
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to observe and monitor the progress made in terms of
completing the Kusile and Medupi fire power plants, as well as
social, economic contribution of these projects in the
surrounding areas.
The committee has noticed some positive progress with regards
to Medupi coal fire power plant was 100% complete and this had
brought some stability to the grid. Moreover, there was
relative positive progress, since three out of six of these
coal fire power plants were completed and the remaining three
units were scheduled to completion towards the end of 2023.
Kusile and Medupi continue to face numerous challenges
regardless of progress made. For instance, one of the sighted
common findings reported by the committee with regard to
Kusile and Medupi were defects which led to unplanned ...
[Inaudible.] ... contractors that were involved with irregular
contracts, inflated prices in both coal fire power plants.
Another finding especially in the context of Kusile was the
liquidity of contractors that install the completion of the
remaining three units of the coal fire power plants.
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The committee has made several recommendations concerning
these findings. Aside from the abovementioned challenges, the
committee has noticed the investment that Eskom and some
colliery pursued aggressively in order to improve the
socioeconomic outlook of Liphalale and Witbank. This is
something that is commendable as it ensures improvement of the
living conditions of the marginalised people.
The oversight visits to SAFCOL has been necessitated by the
pressing issue that the entity has a potential to diversify
and expand its production and yet the entity has not done so,
that’s far. The stumbling block to SAFCOL diversification and
expansion of its production was access to plantable land that
was under land claims.
Moreover, SAFCOL’ s attempting to advance the ANC-led
government its beneficiation policy call, of improving its
machinery and technology and to develop downstream industries.
These were some of the many findings that were observed by the
committee.
However, SAFCOL was already putting measures in place to
tackle these findings head-on. Going further, SAFCOL plays a
critical role in improving the social, economic conditions of
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the surrounding areas of these plantations and operation in
Mpumalanga, through its investment on social infrastructure
and the enterprise development initiative.
The committee has applauded the work of SAFCOL and encouraged
the entity to expand its investment and include more young
people, women, people with disabilities. The committee will
continue monitoring in collaboration with the relevant the
stakeholders, the implementation of these reconditions in this
report.
The committee has approved this report and submit it to the
House for consideration. House Chairperson thank you.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chair, I move that
the report be adopted. Thank you very much.
Declarations of Votes:
Mr G K Y CACHALIA: House Chairperson, I was unable to attend
the oversight visits due to unavoidable circumstances this
one - which were communicated to the chair and accepted by the
chair. But I have been comprehensively briefed by my colleague
who now serves on another committee.
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Now, let’s attend to the positives first, few as they are. The
South African Forestry Company SOC Limited, SAFCOL, is one of
the least problematic state-owned entities, SOEs, having
received a clean audit and is holding its head above water
unlike the rest of the sorry bunch. It is bedding down its
current offering and has plans to diversify, and we will
follow this with keen interest. One area however that requires
attention are the plethora of land claims – some outstanding
for 20 years. I trust these will receive urgent attention.
This is highlighted in the report.
With regard to Medupi and Kusile, it is relatively easy to
showcase newly built power stations and their sheer size and
potential power output is impressive but as we all know the
reality, the cost, the actual output and the cumulative effect
on the utility’s energy availability factor, EAF is shocking,
to use a favourite word of the president.
Perhaps you’re unaware that Medupi and Kusile are capable,
when running at full capacity, of cumulatively providing 25%
of our generation needs. Of course, the reality is lamentably
different.
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The use of local contractors, while not an outlandish idea,
needs to be measured against their financial and operational
capacity and their competence to deliver. Sadly, this has very
often not been the case – a consequence of preferential
procurement, cadre deployment, crony contracts enabled by
black economic empowerment, BEE, and other insane practices
and policies which have got us into this mess.
Then there are smaller issues, well, not so small, like the
construction of 336 units at Kusile, the Wilge township by the
Liviero Group that cost of some R620 million – these units
have never been occupied and remain a decaying ghost land.
Runaway and hugely excessive costs, feeding crony arrangements
with the ANC at these two power stations, commissioned with
much fanfare, have actually underperformed and remain unable
to generate a full load with ongoing and frequent planned and
unplanned outages.
So, the real question is why are we unable to get to a real
understanding of the problems at these power stations? Why are
we fed platitudes in committee when we suffer a death by
thousands of power point pricks that obfuscate the real issues
and shield the culprits from culpability? Why are we presented
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on oversight with a fraction of the real problems that beset
the utility’s capacity to provide affordable and available
electricity to residents, businesses and industry?
Given the effect on our economy, it poised to grow at a paltry
1,8% this year and the increased demand that will have on
electricity availability. We need to have more robust
oversight that answers questions in a full and transparent
manner, enabling the interrogation of plans and proffered
solutions. Where are the gaps, the costings and the timelines?
Where is the transparency around contracts and costs?
Without these we can continue the charade in committee and on
oversight junkets and the country which we are paid to serve
will be no wiser. Enough of this command and control. Let’s
get to heart of the problem.
Now, let me share to you why I am wearing one of my favourite
fray ties today. It has little pigs on it and the reason that
I wore it today, to demonstrate the point that you can’t put
lipstick on a pig. You’ve got to tell the truth in the
transparent and proper fashion. I thank you.
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Ms R KOMANE: Thank you very much, Chair. Let us acknowledge
the report by the SA Forestry Company SOC Limited, Safcol.
However, we want to put it on record that we are not impressed
by the failure of the Minister of Public Enterprises to engage
with other departments on the land beneficiation of people
that should place the people and assist them in terms of
development.
There is no dispute that the construction of Medupi and Kusile
as mega infrastructure ... was undertaken by ... [Inaudible.]
... ask themselves how can we eat, instead of asking
themselves what can we do to ensure that our people have
affordable and reliable electricity? The project took longer
than it should have. We spent more money than we should have.
The work was compromised by poor workmanship, corruption and
the lack of political oversight and accountability because
everyone was busy eating.
It has become a tradition that every year the portfolio
committee goes to Medupi and Kusile, comes back and writes the
same report. It has now turned into a fanfare event for
Members of Parliament.
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We must complete the Medupi and Kusile programme and soon all
units must come on line, the sooner the better. Although these
power stations may not perform at the planned level, they are
still an essential part of South Africa’s generation capacity.
We must do away with the idea that South Africa is going to
move away from coal because some guy called Biden in America,
bought by American imperialist finance monopolists, think they
have the right to decide policies for the rest of the world
when they themselves continue to rely heavily on fossil fuels.
At our own pace, with our own security, technology, research
and political will, we must find a balanced mix between
renewable sources of energy, nuclear and clean technology for
coal. We know that the ruling party does not have the capacity
or political will to stand for this because they continue to
harass our people and the environment in Xolobene. Therefore,
the EFF rejects this report.
Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Thanks, hon Chairperson. The opportunity
cost of Medupi and Kusile power stations is beyond all stretch
of the imagination. South Africa is heavily dependent on these
two coal-fired power stations. This in an age when South
Africa should be investing heavily in renewable energy supply,
not only to stave off climate change, reduce our dependency on
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fossil fuels and to fall in step with what we have agreed on
internationally, but most importantly, to create sustainable
green energy and literally keep the lights on for current and
future generations.
A decade ago the rand value of the opportunity cost was
estimated to be between R6,3 billion and R10,7 billion per
year. Through you, Chairperson to the hon Minister, what are
the current figures? Have the surrounding communities and
small, medium and micro enterprises, SMMEs, benefitted in
terms of job creation, skills development and transformation
in general? Why are we still importing parts required? Why are
these not being manufactured locally? Why are substandard
boilers being used which is reducing productivity and
efficiency at the power stations? Why are standard operating
procedures not being followed?
Redesigning at this stage only indicates poor planning and
design faults that should have been identified when the
project was started. Who will be held to account for this?
Another question is with regard to the amount of graft that is
at best painstakingly slow; at worst, not being investigated
and prosecuted at all.
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Medupi and Kusile are concrete examples of how this government
conducts its infrastructure build. Scenarios like this play
out time and again with government build projects. They remain
a burden on the taxpayer and act against the best
socioeconomic interests of the citizens of South Africa. The
IFP will support the report, subject to all concerns and
recommendations being actioned.
Afrikaans:
Dr W J BOSHOFF: Agb Voorsitter, ’n mens moet nou nie ’n
verslag verwerp net omdat dit die naam Eskom, Medupi of Kusile
bevat nie, want dit kan dalk ’n goeie verslag wees en dan moet
’n mens dit ondersteun.
Ongelukkig is hierdie nie ’n goeie verslag nie, want ’n goeie
verslag behoort op sy eie bene te kan staan en vir die
waarnemer of die leser te sê wat gesien is, wat gebeur het,
wat daaragter lê.
English:
Sadly, this report does not do that. In the first place, the
report is really very old news. A little less than two years
ago, the committee visited Medupi and Kusile, and only now do
we consider the report.
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Afrikaans:
Dit is reg. Dit bly baie ou nuus. Die kwessie van wat agter
hierdie probleem lê word glad nie verduidelik nie. Kom ons vat
onsself terug na 2007 toe. Ons het net ons eerste ervaring met
beurtkrag gehad en toe kom ’n nuwe getransformeerde Eskom met
nuwe tegnologie en nuwe kragstasies, en hulle gaan die wêreld
wys hoe krag met meer doeltreffende stoomketels en meer
doeltreffende turbines opgewek kan word, want die klomp gemors
wat die ou Eskom altyd gebruik het kan nou met nuwe, goeie
Japanese tegnologie vervang word.
Maar toe werk dit nie want toe dit in 2015 klaar moet wees was
dit nog lank nie klaar nie. In 2019 het die vorige direkteur
van tegnologie by Eskom ’n ope brief geskryf en gesê dat sy
kennis van die steenkool van Suid-Afrika en die gehalte van
Suid-Afrikaanse steenkool laat hom dink — hy het geen kontak
met Eskom, Kusile of Medupi nie — dat die probleem x, y en z
is. Dit gaan daaroor dat ons steenkool eintlik baie stadig is
en baie moeilik brand, en dit beteken dat buitelandse
tegnologie nie geskik is om ons steenkool te verbrand en
daarmee krag op te wek nie.
English:
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Now back to the report. We get a whole list of things which
are worked on. [Interjections.]
Mr M A TSEKI: Chairperson, we are disadvantaged in terms of
the language ... the interpreters ... probably the virtual
interpretation is not possible or what? I don’t know.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr Q R Dyantyi): Just pause, hon
member. Just sit. Can the Information Technology, IT, ...
attend to that urgently? Interpretation please.
[Interjections.] Thank you. Let’s proceed.
Dr W J BOSHOFF: I’ll even try to use some English because I
only have 40 seconds left and I think I have enough English
for 40 seconds. [Laughter.]
When we see this report, it lists a few things which are
reworked, which are repurposed in these power stations, and
that is exactly the list that the ex-director of technology
suggested should be done. Now we have two power stations which
should’ve been completed by 2015 but in 2021 it was nearly
completed, and then it exploded after the report. It should’ve
cost 160 billion dollars but it does ... R450 billion. It
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should’ve worked at 80% capacity but now it is at 70%. And
sadly, my time and my English is gone.
Mr S N SWART: Hon House Chair I must say Mr Boshoff makes some
very interest as well. I think when one has regard to this
report, it does raise a number of very interesting aspects.
One does bear in mind that the report was tabled on 29
November 2021 and that is an interesting time because three
years prior to that on 28th November 2018, the Public
Enterprises Committee of the previous Parliament tabled its
extensive oversight report into Eskom. I represented the ACDP
in that inquiry, and a lot of the evidence that we heard of
malfeasance, corruption was then referred to the Zondo
Commission which has been dealt with by it.
Now, what is good news arising from the report and arising
from subsequent developments yesterday, I’m reporting from a
Justice Committee perspective, the National Prosecuting
Authority arising from state capture took a preservation order
against Optimum Coal Mine and the Optimum Coal Terminal. That
was at the heart of the problems at Eskom and it cannot be
ignored. This is the biggest success in the National
Prosecuting Authority, NPA’s history, R3,4 billion
preservation order of a Gupta company Tegeta. If you read the
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research and will come out in the findings, this is to be
commended.
However, getting back to this report, which is to a large
degree very useful in as much as it refers to a number of
aspects related to cost overruns and yes Mr Boshoff, those
issues have been raised previously. I think what is
highlighted here is that cost overruns have resulted in
increased load shedding which is implicated and referred to in
this committee report.
What is also very interesting is when it comes to the report
on the Kusile issue, the committee states categorically that
it is appalled by wasteful expenditure that was incurred in
various aspects, including the costs of the project for the
artisans escalate from R260 million to R800 million. That it
appreciates the steps that have been taken to blacklist
companies to recover funds that have been lost, and that
example I gave of the Tegeta preservation order is an attempt
to recover those funds.
What is amazing and I think the committee also highlights this
is that, Eskom has not got a water use license for Kusile. How
can you have a power station of that size without the water
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use license? Then, the focus on the conveyor belt is to be
welcomed as opposed to trucks riding the coal. From the ACDP’s
perspective, we will support the support I thank you House
Chair.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: House Chair, thank you very much.
IsiXhosa:
Namhlanje ingathi ...
English:
... I am Father Christmas. The UDM supports the report.
IsiXhosa:
Naku ukwenzeka ...
English:
... Chairperson, I think there are several issues that require
serious consideration and attention. The first one obviously
has to do with the fact that, I don't think - I think managers
would be conflicted somewhat when they’re expected to
investigate cost escalations in projects, as some of them
might have benefited from that. We need to broader -yes, we
need a broader investigation to check because the cost
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escalations as we know if we are saying we had a problem with
the state capture in the past, I am sure there are people who
benefited from those cost escalations. The other issue is: I
don’t understand why for an example here in South Africa when
...
IsiXhosa:
... umbane ubucima namagosa ayintloko olawulo emnyama
besingxola, kude kupapashwe neziqinisekiso zabo zemfundo
abantu bethandabuza nokuba bayakwazi ukuthetha isiNgesi. Xa
eli igosa eliyintloko lolawulo likhoyo limhlophe, kufuneka
kwenziwe ntoni kuba umzekelo andithi nokuba ...
English:
... we come across as being very condescending at times and
patronizing on TV when explaining the issue of load shedding,
he gets away with it.
IsiXhosa:
Sayenza loo nto naseposini, laa mlungu wayephethe phaya de
yatshona kuba emhlophe ndimnyama mna, wamana ukunconywa.
Andithi kunjalo? Kutheni? Andonqeni nto mna.
English:
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The other issue here has to do with local contractors. Over
the past couple of years, I have dealt with many complaints
...
IsiXhosa:
... apho abantu besithi bayacalulwa abantu abasuka kwezinye
iindawo ...
English:
... by the subcontractors in particular.
IsiXhosa:
Ukuba basuka kwaZulu-Natal okanye eMpuma Koloni kwaye
bathethat iilwimi ezingezizo ezaphaya ... [Uwele-wele.]
Ndithetha nabantu bethu kakolu ngoku, andithethi nani. Bamane
besithi abantu bakuthi xa besifa phaya umntu esithi ndithetha
isiXhosa, axelelwe ukuba awunguye owalapha awukwazi
ukuphangela apha. Umntu athi uthetha isiZulu akhutshwe
emsebenzini kufakwe umntu wasenantsikeni ngokungathi abangabo
abantu baseMzantsi Afrika. Kuyafuneka ukuba siziphendulise
ngakumbi ezi nantsika.
English:
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The other issue here has to do with the arrogance of the Eskom
Board all the time. You will recall Chairperson of the
Standing Committee on Appropriations that even when we went to
them, they did not come to one of our meetings. We had to
postpone it because they were not present. But, when we had to
give them a special appropriation, they were all present here
in Parliament.
IsiXhosa:
Bafika begilana ngamadolo apha besesenza ngathi singooThixo
basemhlabeni, befuna imali. Xa imali ingekho baphinda
bangasiboni njengeenkokeli zabo.
English:
It is an issue most of these entities take us seriously...
IsiXhosa:
... xa kufuneka imali kuzo.
English:
Obviously if we don’t consider the impact in the long run of
these independent power producers, IPPs on the financial
sustainability of Eskom, we will have a problem because the
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taxpayers made a lot of investment on these coal powered power
stations.
IsiXhosa:
La nto ithethwa nguMphathiswa uMantashe yinyaniso ...
English:
... whether they like it or not. It is a just and a slow
transition because the country invested money there, unless
...
IsiXhosa:
... nifuna ukuqhathwa ngabantu baphesheya …
English:
... with their agendas. Thank you.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr Q R Dyantyi): Thank you. The ATM!
GOOD!
Mr B HERRON: House Chair, we have no declaration. Thank you.
Mr C M H SIBISI: House Chair, the NFP notes the report of the
portfolio committee and welcomes its recommendations. House
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Chair these two power stations have legacy issues that have
paralysed this country over the years. It is frustrating that
there is hardly anything positive to say about Eskom, words
like incompetence, incapacity, corruption, irregular
expenditure, fruitless and wasteful expenditure, deeply
associated with this entity and its power station. One is
almost certain that we are sounding like a broken record who
had the public when we shed light on these issues in this
house.
The NFP shares the sentiments of the portfolio committee on
wasteful expenditure that occurred the incomplete projects to
build flats to artisans. The construction of the flats did not
serve the purpose and have seen costs escalating from
R260 million to R800 million. The contractor involved in the
construction of the flats was Liviero Group (Pty)Ltd. It is
really disturbing that there are companies awarded contracts
worth millions to billions but cannot deliver yet monies have
been paid, but our people and businesses are suffering greatly
from high electricity tariffs and load shedding.
House Chair, have you noticed how companies that end up being
incompetent to deliver are often paid within the prescribed
period? But, those that do the work and deliver are always at
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the back of the queue to receive their payment from state-
owned entities, SOEs and departments. South Africa needs to
start having an honest and open conversation about its
direction. Let us not leave this up to the government anymore.
Let us stand up ...
IsiZulu:
... sizwe sakithi, silwele ikusasa lethu nelezwe lethu.
Asibonge, Sihlalo weNdlu.
Ms J TSHABALALA: Good afternoon, hon House Chair. Let me
acknowledge the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, hon Pammy
Majodina. Quickly, DA, you can keep your time meneer (sir), I
don’t think it’s a problem. What becomes a problem is not when
you are here in the oversight and the next thing you come and
rehearse other speeches. Here it’s about a report that we did
an oversight last year.
However, all those things that were mentioned here bears no
reference to this debate. But it’s fine, it’s allowed. - You
might have issues with the skin colour or what a view. I am
sure you can find a better way where you can put it. And, next
time say it in English so that others can also hear it. I
think it’s quite important, I heard you I don’t have a problem
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but I think it’s quite important to do that. Just speak in
English.
By the way, the Eskom Board does not have a problem. They
would always come to the Portfolio Committee of Public
Enterprise, and its Minister and Deputy Minister. If you need
them, call us, we can really give them to you. They have never
given us an attitude that you relate. So it’s unfortunate.
I think what is important for me is what the IFP says. Inkosi
said something about the issue of land claims. It’s quite
important, hon Sikwatsha is here. It is there in our committee
in so far as our report, it’s something that you really have
to look into in terms of your department collaboration. This
matter must be attended to with the urgency it deserves. I
think that is something positive, I gather. The rest, hello!
As public enterprise, we want to table to you our oversight
visit that we did for Eskom Kusile, Medupi power stations and
SAFCOL, highveld in Mpumalanga operations. The oversight visit
to Eskom occurred from 21/22 June 2021. And the one for SAFCOL
happened on 23/24 June 2021 respectively.
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Since 2007, the ANC-led government has incurred investment
costs aimed at addressing power infrastructure needs a new
generation capacity to meet the increasing electricity demands
in South Africa. Kusile and Medupi, the third and the fourth
largest coal fire power plants in the world with a combined
capacity of around 9,6 gigawatts, will add a value to Eskom,
install generation capacity once all the units of this coal
fire power plants are brought in line and subsequently
increased the supply electricity.
Although government investments and private funding which has
led to Eskom increase debt. And, debt to equity ratio was made
available for the development of Kusile and Medupi. Due to
delays, both coal fired power plants took longer to complete
at the time when there was a strong demand for electricity
from the millions of previously marginalised South Africans
who are now connected on the national grid.
The oversight visits to Kusile and Medupi were undertaken with
the aim of ascertaining the causes of delays in the completion
of coal fired plants as well as the socio economic
contribution ... [Inaudible.] ... Particularly transformative
initiatives such as support to small and medium enterprises,
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skills development and job creation of this project in the
area where they are located.
With regard to Medupi, the building of coal fired plants was
100% complete and the estimated cost was R145,6 billion. But
the actually money spent was R123,0 billion, and it something
that we also noted as the portfolio committee as of May 2021.
In June 2021, the headcount of Medupi was constituted by 2 499
contractor employees and 301 Eskom employees. This was a
significant decline from 16 797 employees in 2013. Whilst
Medupi was 100% complete, there was outstanding work to be
done inside and outside the coal fired power plant including
but not limited to the rectification of the boiler defects
resolving the AVR’s faults and the completion Ash Disposal
Facility and Coal Stockyard facilities which were partly
responsible for the persistent decline in the performance of
Medupi.
I want to quickly respond to the issue around the number of
buildings that really took place with regards to Medupi. With
regards to Kusile, 1 - 3, were completed between August 2017
and May 2021. Whereas the remaining units 4 – 6 were expected
to be completed between June 2022. So, you can wait, we are
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still going to June 2022, FF Plus, just look forward to it.
With reference to unit 4 - 6, you will see. So check it in
June if it’s there.
Ascertain that the three main courses of delays because of
COVID-19, and it is a reality. It took us two years and it
really took the department aback. The impact of contractors
going into liquidation and business rescue and the delays in
the turnaround time for procurement cycle. However, progress
on the ongoing units was above 90%. And, this serves as an
indication that Kusile will reach its full potential and
probably reduce Eskom costs on running the diesel dependent
open cycle gas turbines in 2023.
I want to quickly say about South African Forestry Company
SAFCOL, we have really noted the progress SAFCOL has done.
Indeed, it has become a very stable entity at this point. It
has recorded over a quarter R4 million and R7,3 million a
year. SAFCOL adds 68% shareholder compact target that have
been reached to date. And 80% targets record about R166
million profit that we have ... [Inaudible.] ... in with
SAFCOL, due to favourable number of market share. I think that
is something that we need to commend SAFCOL. We can clap hands
SAFCOL come on. They keep on saying something everything is
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wrong with state-owned enterprise, SOEs. SAFCOL is a good
story that we are dealing with.
At this point, with regards to it, the committee has visited
the entity plantations such as Belfast Plantation. And, the
key take away from this was that SAFCOL has not yet advanced
the ANC-led government beneficiation policy goal, in the sense
that there was limited investments in the manufacturing and
exporting of finished products going further
SAFCOL also struggles to get to access to plantable land to
expand its production and create more job opportunities.
Hence, we are saying that this is one of the areas that we
would want to employ Department of Public Enterprise, DPE, to
work with the rural development to ensure this becomes a
reality.
SAFCOL was committed to the investment in Samuel’s Plants and
the committee engage land owners claimants including Mapulane
Tribe, to respond to the beneficiation and land access
challenges. Apart from these challenges, SAFCOL has
contributed towards socioeconomic development in the
surrounding communities of its plantations and operations in
Mpumalanga. For an example, SAFCOL has built Harmony Hill
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Clinic for the community. The committee supports the report
and I table it. Thank you.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT ON
2021-22 FIRST QUARTER EXPENDITURE OF DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
Mr M J ZWANE: Thank you Chair for allowing me to introduce the
report of the Portfolio Committee on Transport on 2020-21
first quarter expenditure of the Department of Transport,
dated 17 August 2021. The report on the department 2020-21
first quarter expenditure was adopted by the portfolio
committee on 17 August 2021. In 2021, the main allocation of
the Department of Transport stood at R62 billion, which was
subsequently reduced to R57,4 billion during the supplementary
budget.
During the same period the department underspend by
R291,9 million of the allocated budget. The underspending can
be attributed to the following factors: Covid-19 pandemic,
non-filling of vacancy funded posts ...
The TEMPORARY HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr Q R Dyantyi): Take a
pause, hon Zwane. Just take a seat, hon Zwane. Hon members, we
cannot hear the member introducing this report. You are not
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heckling or interjecting, you are speaking aloud which is not
allowed. We will not repeat that. Hon Zwane, please continue.
Mr M ZWANE: ... less travelling and less legal advisory
services to mention just but the few factors. Whilst we all
can understand that little could be done to mitigate the
effects of Covid-19 pandemic, the committee believes a lot
could have been done to fill the funded critical posts as this
is a matter emanating from a few years. The matter hand has a
negative effect if left unattended by the Department of
Transport as it does not only have a negative impact on
spending but the direct impact on service delivery also.
The department has scored high in terms of its key performance
areas though the committee felt that the department could have
done more as a number of critical projects in different
programmes could not be implemented. This will include, but
not limited to projects that would have improved the state of
our roads, especially rural roads.
The committee further noted that the above score although much
appreciated did not translate to the actual delivery on the
ground as part of the deliverables wherein set by criminals,
especially in the rail sector. The department has to deal with
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the next to non-security existence in all our sector and avoid
a further loss of infrastructure in the rail sector. While the
SA National Roads Agency, Sanral, has done well in maintaining
roads under its jurisdiction the committee acknowledges.
Things cannot be said about most of the provincial roads,
which are not falling under Sanral. A lot of work has to be
done by the department in this regard.
This report therefore, seeks accountability from an oversight
over the department and therefore makes important
recommendations, like the department needs to report on a
quarterly basis on the progress made in addressing vacancies.
It also seeks the key performance areas to be linked to social
delivery and the result must be seen in improvement in the
transport system on the ground.
While the department has done much progress under difficult
conditions with the transport sector dysfunctional during the
Covid-19 pandemic this report reflects that there is still
much work to be done by the department in ensuring efficiency
and effectiveness thereby creating an affordable transport
system.
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The committee seeks for such progress constantly as that is
what our people voted for in the first place, a better life
for all. The committee hopes that this report will also be
adopted by the National Assembly, including the committee’s
observations. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chairperson, I
move that the Report be adopted. Thank you.
Declarations of vote:
Mr C H H HUNSINGER: House Chair, inside of what transpired in
the budget cycle since quarter one until now provides the
unique opportunity to evaluate and comment on whether this
start-up of the 2021-22 transport budget cycle was impactful
or not.
This year also marks 10 years since the launched of the
National Development Plan, NDP, and nine years before the date
line of the commitment of this ANC government to effectively
address poverty and reduce inequality - 2022 being the half
way mark towards realising vision 2030 in creating a decent
standard of living for all.
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In this quest, transport has been earmarked as the crucial
enabler and vital gain changer. Each budget cycle and expense
evaluation, therefore, should be measured as a building block
of vision 2030.
In addition, the portfolio committee is entrusted with not
only budget but also considerations of Strategic and Annual
Performance Plans, including all the entities that fall within
the control of the Department of Transport.
Fixing roads should be central in the aspiration to improve
people’s life, given the fact that unlocking opportunities are
closely related to mobility. Budget allocations to the three
spheres of government will therefore be core in for example,
fixing surfaces and potholes.
While most budget and expense report would show 100% spend and
100% of Kyoto Protocol, KP, targets achieved, a huge underline
discrepancy has been created. The Sanral looks after 21 000
kilometres of road and in five years their budget increase
with the staggering R12 billion. On the other hand, our nine
provinces combined looked after 273 000 kilometres of road.
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Yet, they combined budget to fix roads increase by a mere
R4 billion.
The Sanral is favoured put differently. In the last five years
Sanral available budget to fix roads has increased by R600 000
per kilometre while the budget increase budget for the
combined provinces enlarge by only R18 000 per kilometre both
over the same last five years.
Minister Mbalula, you and your department cannot be serious
about fixing roads, poverty and inequality when it is clear
that you are favouring Sanral and treating the only vehicle
users. You cannot be serious about creating an enabling
economic environment when truckers need to drive next to the
road to safe a tyer and struggle to be on time within the
delivery. The ANC has deserted road users.
Minister, you get irritated with me when I say you sleep up in
renewing the security contracts and protection services to
guard our railway infrastructure around August 2019. This
being months before Covid and lockdown when most trains were
running and the rail infrastructure functional.
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The TEMPORARY HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr Q R Dyantyi): Take a
pause. Please, pause. Take a seat. Please, take a seat.
Serjeant-at-arms at and ICT, please remove hon Anastasia
Motaung. Please remove him. Thank you very much. Go ahead, hon
member. [Applause.]
Mr C H H HUNSINGER: Thank you, House Chair. Without protection
billions of rail and infrastructure was stolen and vandalised
to gloom. The fact is that this has forced millions of people
to use much more of their expenses to the public transport. On
average, 40% more of disposable households’ income now goes
towards traveling cost. Before this was spent on family,
children, nutrition and making a home of a house. It was not
only the Passenger Rail Agency of South Africa, Prasa,
employees without transport as a means to get to work.
Shamefully, Prasa currently operates with seven roads vehicles
for every moving train. The ANC has deserted the passengers
and the rail commuters.
Similar and more examples can be made about aviation, maritime
and general public transport. Any statement therefore by the
ANC of transport being the backbone of the economy should be
measured by the spineless manner which it is managed.
Transport as the potential can only be realised and fixed by
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the DA in government and in control of budget and all
expenses. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M M CHABANGU: Thank you, Chairperson. Chairperson, the
failure of the Department of Transport to fill vacancies has
become the norm. It is no wonder that out of the 35 targets
that the department has set for themselves only 26 were
achieved. How does the Department of Transport or any other
department for that matter function with 173 vacant posts? The
department is comically handicapped and cannot even meet the
targets they have set for themselves.
The Shova Kalula bicycle programme ordered, was rolled-out on
print 2001, with the aim to ... [Interjections.] ...
Ms J TSHABALALA: Thank you so much, hon House Chair ... I did
raise my hand my darling, thank you ... yes, my hon, yes
Deputy Chief Whip. House Chair, I was just raising this on a
point of order that the member of the EFF, if he can switch
off his microphone. I think his camera is a bit disturbing in
terms of following, but we can see that he is using transport.
If he can switch off the microphone so that we can
concentrate, the video rather.
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The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr Q R Dyantyi): Thank you, hon
Tshabalala. Please, reposition yourself and your camera. You
may go ahead.
Mr M M CHABANGU: The Shova Kalula bicycle programme was
rolled-out in 2001 with an aim to deliver 1 million bicycle by
2030. It is 21 years later, only 100 000 bicycles have been
delivered so far. It means that by the time the ruling party
delivers the last bicycle to the deserving recipients of this
program many would have gotten married, raised families or
dead. The ANC government boost about having introduced scholar
transport, but thousands of school children in the rural area
of KwaZulu-Natal and the Eastern Cape, let alone the Free
State, are still walking long distance to school.
The taxi industry was promised by the Minister of Transport
that subsidies for the for the minibus taxis will be
implemented by the 2021 April, but there is no mention of the
formalisation of the taxi industry in the Report. The failure
of the ANC government to provide; a safe, reliable, accessible
and affordable public transport, is once again evident as
there are areas where the most affordable and mover of
millions of commuters are not functioning.
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Poor South Africans are spending a bigger portion of their
hard-earned income on expensive transport. We know that the
blame will be shifted to looters or rail tracks. Before the
ruling party does that, they must tell us as to how much
Passenger Rail Agency of South Africa, Prasa, spends on
security and why the looting of rail tracks continues and
unabatedly despite the security measures that are in place.
The EFF therefore, reject the Report with intent. Thank you.
Mr K P SITHOLE: Thank you, hon Chairperson. This department
need to address the main shortcomings of our transport sectors
in South Africa. Recently, the Minister informed Standing
Committee on Finance, Scopa, of the 3 000 ghost employees that
Passenger Rail Agency of South Africa was paying another
government and grant corruption schemes. This Report deal with
the period in which all South Africans were suffering due to
extended period of lockdown. Our economy was in decline and
expenditure by government was reprioritised.
The high volume of ghost employees cannot be swept under the
carpet. We therefore call for a full investigation of all
implicated parties with the full application of law. The poor
people of this country cannot continue any longer under this
administration and department due to lack of will in dealing
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with corruption. The cost of transportation is rising the
point where all South Africans are being shot by high
associated cost as well as the generally increase in cost of
living as a result.
If there were no corruptions government could be able to ease
the burden of poor consumers and businesses. They would be
able to subsidise fuel, transportation costs and transport
taxes and they would not have to spend such large amounts of
our income on transport. The government would also be able to
provide some relief of toll road fees which also had added to
the high cost of living. While we are discussing all toll
roads we must mention the promises made by the Minister and
Premier of Gauteng that they will find a model of scrapping e-
tolls entirely.
Again, with corruptions programmes such as these could not be
paid for by the government. The Minister must commit to a date
now and tell us what he intends to do about the e-tolls before
the public is becoming frustrated and force him into answers
on their terms. Finally, the issues of nonpayment of
successful claims to Road Accident Fund need to be resolved
with immediate effect. There are a number of complaints by
people who have been notified on their successful claims yet
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still to be paid out. Once again, the Minister must brief us
on reason as to why these claims have not been settled. The
IFP do support the Report. Thank you.
Mr P MEY: Thank you, Chairperson. I have a connection problem
so I will not use the video.
Afrikaans:
Gedurende die 2021-22 Begroting is ’n bedrag van R66,7 biljoen
aan die Departement van Vervoer toegeken. Die Departement van
Vervoer is verantwoordelik vir verskeie entiteite en as gevolg
van die verval sal ... [Onhoorbaar.] ... bedrag op die stadium
nie genoeg wees ... [Onhoorbaar.] ... jammer, vir die
funksionering van die ... [Onhoorbaar.] ... entiteite nie. Die
rede is dat infrastruktuur verouderd en vernietig is, en dat
onderhoud nie op ’n gereelde basis geskied het nie. In baie
gevalle is poste nie eers gevul nie, wat ’n belangrike rol kon
speel om beter beheer toe te pas. Die fondse is beskikbaar
maar die departement sleep voete met die aanstellings. Dit is
wel bekend dat lande met ’n goeie vervoerstelsel ook van die
rykste lande ter wêreld is. Ons vervoerstelsel het die
afgelope jare so verswak dat dit moeilik sal wees om dit weer
in ’n goeie werkende toestand te kry.
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’n Goeie vervoerstelsel is die slagaar van ’n groeiende
ekonomie en dra by tot verskeie ontwikkelings, om maar net
toerisme wat een van die grootste werkgewers in Suid-Afrika
is, as voorbeeld te noem.
Wat padvervoer betref is die SA National Roads Agency, Sanral,
[SA Nasionale Padagentskap] werklik ’n uitsondering en ligpunt
deurdat hulle die nasionale paaie in ’n goeie toestand hou. Op
’n provinsiale vlak is die meeste paaie in ’n swak toestand en
word die fondse wat aan provinsies toegeken is nie vir daardie
doel aangewend nie. Dit sal goed wees as Sanral ook daardie
funksie kan oorneem.
Swak paaie belemmer ekonomiese groei en op die gebied van
landbou ly die boere miljoene rand se skade as gevolg van swak
infrastruktuur. Duisende rand word aan die herstel van
voertuie bestee wat boere eenvoudig nie kan beskostig nie.
Vrugteboere ly ook miljoene rand se skade met die kneusing van
hul vrugte op die swak paaie. Dié geld kon landbouers eerder
gebruik het om meer werk te verskaf.
Die goedkoopste manier van reis in Suid-Afrika is per trein
maar weens die swak omstandighede waarin die treinstelsel hom
bevind, skakel passasiers oor na padvervoer, wat Suid-Afrika
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juis nie wil hê nie. Die grootste oorsake vir dié swak
toestand is diefstal, verouderde infrastruktuur en beheer.
Elektriese kabels word daagliks gesteel en daar word nie
genoeg gedoen om dit te verhoed nie, wat dan veroorsaak dat al
hoe minder treine beskikbaar is. Dié tendens word dus oor
Suid-Afrika waargeneem. Sekuriteitsbeamptes is nie die
oplossing nie en die VF Plus het al verskeie kere in die
portefeuljekomitee daarop gewys dat daar na die
spoorwegpolisie teruggekeer moet word.
Op ’n besoek aan Mamelodi is daar gevind dat daar onder
normale omstandighede 45 treine per dag beskikbaar is. Tydens
ons besoek het slegs ... [Onhoorbaar.] ... diesel treine per
dag geloop as gevolg van die feit dat elektriese treine weens
kabeldiefstal nie gebruik kon word nie. Dit plaas net meer
finansiële druk op die armes in ons land.
Indien die regering ernstig is om weg te beweeg van padvervoer
na spoor, sal daar dringend opgetree moet word. Die verval van
spoorwegstasies is skokkend en is maar net ’n bewys dat
sekuriteitsbeamptes nie die antwoord ... [Tyd verstreke.]
Mr C M H SIBISI: House Chair, the NFP welcomes and notes the
report of the portfolio committee. We want to find out what
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the department is doing about the striking E-hailing drivers.
In Pretoria a firearm believed to belong to a police officer
who was not on duty at the time was discharged, fortunately no
one was hurt. House Chair we want to shed light on more
important issues around the E-hailing services offered by
Bolt. We have received so many complaints and allegations from
women all over the country, who have been attacked, robbed,
raped and killed while using Bolt services. There may be
others but the quantity and the quality of allegations have
come from Bolt users are disturbing, yet the country is silent
on this matter. A female Bolt user shared her experience on
her social media recently you saying, I quote:
A Bolt driver and raped my friend last night. Strangled
her half to death and took her virginity. Bolt doesn’t
care about our safety. Their Instagram page is filled
with people complaining about assault. and they have done
nothing about it.
Miss Anele Mdoda requested to have the Chief Executive
Officer, CEO of Bolt on her morning radio show to discuss
these many allegations. We as Parliament need to start taking
this matter seriously and do something about it. We can share
so many of these allegations with the House. But more
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importantly, Bolt must be summoned to Parliament to account
for these allegations and what it is doing about them. All
relevant stakeholders must be part of this engagement. This is
a matter of utmost importance and we are calling on the
Department of Transport in partnership with SA Police Service,
SAPS to begin a process to look into this, otherwise another
protest may be coming. I thank you House Chair.
Mr L N MANGCU: House Chairperson ...
IsiXhosa:
... okwangumtshana wasemaMfeneni, ...
English:
... Chief Whip, Ministers, Deputy Ministers, hon members,
colleagues, Tasha, fellow South Africans. Thank you for the
opportunity House Chair to stand before this august House. On
behalf of the ANC, we support this report that has been tabled
here in this House.
This report is a report that has been presented to the
portfolio committee which is a 2021-22 first quarter report.
It is not what many of my colleagues stood here and spoke
about. Whilst they were raising a couple of important issues,
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but I think it’s important that colleagues understand what we
are here for. It is a first quarter report of the 2021-22
financial year. I think hon Tasha on my left will help in
doing some induction of what we are supposed to do.
My colleague in the NFP, I think the first thing you should do
is to attend committee meetings. It will really assist you
because you will not come here and tell us about E-hailing
service, strikes and everything because that is not the matter
we are debating. Are we not concerned about what is happening?
Yes, we are, but maybe you should propose a debate that all of
us can go and debate the similar things, so that you don’t
talk about E-hailing while we are talking about a quarter
report. [Applause.] So, we truly appreciate the things you are
raising today, but they are irrelevant for the debate today or
here.
My colleague in the FF Plus hon Mey, I think that I think, yes
a couple of things he has been very passionate about what is
happening there. And again, to my colleague I think maybe out
of frustration those issues should not be raised in the
quarter report that is here. I am sure there is ample time at
least you attend portfolio committee, and you raise all these
things. To my colleague hon Sithole and I think my colleague
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hon Hunsinger, raised the issue of costs of transport which I
think all of us agree about, and it's something that the
portfolio committee is seized with, and in this report it is
some of the things that are highlighted as concerns that the
department should be addressing.
To my colleague hon Shabangu, who I really like, he loves
transport because even when he comes to make a declaration, he
is in a mode of transport ...[Inaudible] ... a question than
that one to show that you are really in a Portfolio Committee
of Transport. I think he raises some fundamental issue of
scholar transport. Once more, the report deals with that.
House Chair, the report really or the department has got seven
programmes, which is where we should have been talking to as
colleagues. The issue of the administration, the filling of
positions the chairperson has highlighted, we implore the
department to really fast track the issue of feeling of
positions. The issue of integrated transport planning, which
many know is the Bus Rapid Transit, BRT also has been a
concern in that year. The spending was in that quarter 12,5%
lower than projected. What is of concern is that these
projections are projections set by the department. Nobody sets
projections for them. So, we expect them to adhere to the
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projections that they’ve set for themselves. We continue to
monitor that.
On rail transport, a lot has been said about rail and we
remain concerned about what’s happening within the space of
the Passenger Rail Agency of South Africa, Prasa and the move
from rail as my colleague hon Mey said, from road to rail is
something that we implore the department to seriously take to
heart. On the issue of road transport once more, there was a
1,1% lower expenditure than projected and amongst others, we
were told that there is slow spending in the Road Traffic
Infringement Agency or Administrative Adjudication of Road
Traffic Offences, Aarto. We call on the department to look
into allegations of board members who are paying themselves
huge amounts of money by uncalled for board meetings.
Civil aviation has been hit by COVID-19, but we are impressed
that there is quite a good move, although they spent 18,1%
less than projected, and the story goes on, maritime 56% under
spending which is quite a lot whilst there are no jobs and we
need to revive the economy. Public transport once more 13,9 of
underspending in this quarter. It is something that we need to
attend to. [Interjections].
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In conclusion Chair, we will have noted as the portfolio
committee that the department spent ...[Interjections.]
The TEMPORARY HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr Q R Dyantyi): Hon Mangcu
...
IsiXhosa:
... khawuchophe malume. [Uwele-wele.]
English:
Serjeant-at-arms and information, communication and
technology, ICT please remove hon Lindiwe Zulu.
IsiXhosa:
Qhuba malume.
Mnu L N MANGCU: Ndiyabulela mtshana.
English:
In conclusion Chairperson, the Portfolio Committee on
Transport ... [Interjections.]
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: On a
point of order Chair! Is it parliamentary to promote nepotism
in the House? [Laughter]
The TEMPORARY HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr Q R Dyantyi): Thank you,
hon Skwatsha. Go ahead hon Mangcu.
Mr L N MANGCU: In conclusion House Chair, the Portfolio
Committee on Transport having considered the first quarter
report of 2021-22, noted regrettably that, the department did
not spend 21,9% of its available budget and that has been
attributed to a couple of things we have already alluded to.
The ANC supports this report. Thank you House Chair.
Question put that the Report be adopted.
Report accordingly adopted.
The House adjourned at 18:13.