Hansard: NA: Unrevised Hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 28 Feb 2017

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Minutes

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NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER

TUESDAY, 28 FEBRUARY 2017
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PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
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The House met at 14:03.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to
observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.

SUSPENSION OF RULES 139(1) AND 139(6)

(Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, I move
the following motion as printed on the Order Paper:

That the House -

(1) suspends the following Rules for the purpose of
scheduling a second question session for the
Deputy President on Thursday, 9 March 2017:


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(a)

Rule 139(1) which provides that Questions to
the Deputy President must be scheduled by the
Programme Committee for a question day once
per month during session time; and

(b)

Rule 139(6) which provides that Questions to
the Deputy President must be submitted to the
Speaker at least 16 calendar days before the
question day on which they are to be
answered.

Agreed to.

CONSIDERATION OF FINANCIAL INTELLIGENCE CENTRE AMENDMENT
BILL, REPORT OF THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON FINANCE
THEREON, AND THE PRESIDENT’S RESERVATIONS ON
CONSTITUTIONALITY OF BILL AS SUBMITTED TO HIM

Mr Y I CARRIM: Madam Speaker, comrades and friends, the
committee‘s report on the matter is in the 23 February
ATC. I will focus mainly on the key issues in the report.
To get the full understanding, you are referred to the
report itself.


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Basically, the Financial Intelligence Centre Act, Act 38
of 2001, seeks to tackle money laundering and terrorism
financing and was passed in 2001. In October 2015,
Minister Nhlanhla Nene introduced the Fica Amendment Bill
to update the Fica and respond to a Constitutional Court
decision that the inspector‘s power to conduct searches
without warrants be restricted to certain circumstances.
The Bill was passed in both Houses in May last year.

In November 2016, the President referred the Bill back to
Parliament. Basically, he believed that the scope for
warrantless searches, the new section 45B(1C) in clause
32 of the Bill as it now reads, which authorises
warrantless searches under certain conditions, is still
too wide and it is not constitutional.

In terms of section 79(1) of the Constitution and Joint
Rules of Parliament, 203 in particular, the committee had
to confine itself to considering the constitutionality of
warrantless searches in the Bill. The committee does not
have the power to review any other clauses on the grounds
that they may also be unconstitutional, or because there


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is a need for any change of policy. Therefore, there is
no policy issue at stake.

The committee simply had to decide whether the revision
of warrantless searches is constitutional or not. The
committee was not obliged to have public hearings on the
President‘s concerns about the constitutionality of
warrantless searches. In fact, on all previous occasions
that the President returned a Bill to Parliament on the
grounds that one or more clauses may be unconstitutional,
the relevant parliamentary committee did not have public
hearings.

Committees have had hearings in cases where a Bill had
been returned by the President on the grounds of
inadequate public participation and not
unconstitutionality. The committee had about 10 hours of
public hearings and deliberated on the Fica Bill for over
40 hours between November 2015 and May 2016, allowing for
submissions from the public until very shortly before we
voted on the Bill. Therefore, the President did not have
any concerns about public participation related to the
Bill.


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The Standing Committee on Finance, consistent with its
approach to encouraging maximum public participation,
decided to have public hearings on the President‘s
constitutional concerns. At the public hearings
independent legal experts also confirmed that the
committee had to restrict its deliberations to the
constitutionality of warrantless searches in the Fica
Bill.

However, the committee decided not to stifle stakeholders
who made submissions to the hearings, and allowed them to
raise concerns about aspects of the Fica Bill other than
the constitutional issues related to warrantless
searches. The majority in the committee felt that the
hearing should not be overdominated by Senior Counsel and
technical experts, and stakeholders should speak their
minds.

However, the committee was clear that it will only
process issues relevant to the constitutionality of
warrantless searches in the Fica Bill. All other issues
had to be put in a separate report that will be
considered as part of public hearings on the


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transformation including the deracialisation of the
financial sector that begin on 14 March.

Parliament sought legal opinion from Adv Ishmael Semenya
and National Treasury from Adv Jeremy Gauntlett. Both
Senior Counsel concluded that the warrantless searches
provision will pass constitutional muster and the
committee could return the Bill as it is to the
President. However, both suggested that the committee
could also decide to make some minor amendments to
clarify the authority of the inspector performing
warrantless inspections.

Adv Gauntlett also suggested that the committee considers
providing further measures to prevent the arbitrary
exercise of this power. Another four legal opinions
concurred with the view that the warrantless searches
provision will pass the constitutional muster.

The committee finally decided to make minor amendments to
the Bill to clarify the authority of the inspector
performing warrantless inspections and to prevent the
arbitrary exercise of this power. The amendments were


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based primarily on the proposals presented by both
advocates. The committee‘s report on the Bill provides a
full explanation but very briefly, it is now clear that a
warrantless inspection is not permitted in respect of
criminal offences.

The requirements for consent to inspect without a warrant
defer in the case of a private residence and unlicensed
business premises. An inspector needs internal
authorisation before an inspection without a warrant.
There are further requirements on the need for inspectors
to conduct their inspections with due regard to people‘s
constitutional rights including the right to privacy.

I thank everybody who co-operated on the processing of
this Bill. Thank you, Speaker. [Applause.]

The SPEAKER: Hon members, if there are any requests or
desires for declarations, we‘ll use the terms of Rule 108
because we do not have a speaker‘s list. There are, of
course, agreed times allocated to various parties. The
ANC‘s allocation is seven minutes; DA‘s is five minutes;
EFF‘s is four minutes; and all other parties will get


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three minutes. Therefore, I am happy to take any hands of
people who want to make declarations. Hon Maynier, how
can I not see you? You are now welcome to the podium.

Declaration of vote:
Mr D J MAYNIER: Speaker, the Financial Intelligence
Centre Amendment Bill is one of the most important
legislative weapons in the fight against corruption in
South Africa. At the heart of the Bill is the Gupta
clause which ensures that domestic prominent influential
persons, family members and known close associates of
domestic prominent influential persons will be subject to
enhanced scrutiny by financial institutions in South
Africa. This includes obtaining senior management
approval for establishing business relationships; taking
reasonable measures to establish the source of wealth and
funds of clients; and conducting enhanced ongoing
monitoring of business relationships.

That is why Jimmy Manyi and his merry band of banker
bashers emerge from under a rock to so strongly oppose
the Financial Intelligence Centre Amendment Bill.
Whatever the case may be, we now all know that President


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Jacob Zuma refused to use his presidential call to sign
the Financial Intelligence Centre Amendment Bill.
Instead, he used section 79(1) of the Constitution to
refer it back to Parliament.

We were told that the President recognised that the
purpose of the Bill was important and pressing but
nevertheless, thought that the provision dealing with
warrantless searches, in particular section 45B(1C), was
likely to be unconstitutional. We took advice from Senior
Counsel who advised that President Jacob Zuma was wrong.

The Bill was constitutional but there would be no harm in
tightening up provisions dealing with warrantless
searches, which of course fuels speculation that the Bill
had been referred back with an ulterior motive, and in
this case, to defang the Financial Intelligence Centre.
Whatever the case may be, we have now considered the
President‘s reservations and on advice of Senior Counsel,
have proposed amendments to the Bill dealing with
warrantless searches.


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We have made explicit what was implicit and believe that
the President will now have no choice but to sign the
Financial Intelligence Centre Amendment Bill into Law and
to enfang the Financial Intelligence Centre. This, of
course, brings me back to Jimmy Manyi and his band of
banker bashers who are so strongly opposed to the
Financial Intelligence Centre Amendment Bill and have
threatened to take it on review to the Constitutional
Court.

If anybody has any reservations that we are taking the
right direction, consider that the person who led the
charge against this Bill was none other than Dr Danisa
Baloyi who was reportedly fired as a Director of the Absa
Group. And she was reportedly involved in one of the
biggest and most cruel rip-offs of the poor in this
country, namely the scandal involving Fidentia Asset
Management and the Living Hands Umbrella Trust. It is she
who opposed this Bill.

We need to see Jimmy Manyi and his band of banker bashers
for what they really are, arsonists dressed as firefighters lighting fires rather than fighting fires in


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South Africa. [Applause.] Whatever the case may be, we
still have a long way to go because even if we have the
legislative weapons in place, we do not have the
institutional weapons in place to fight corruption in
South Africa.

The Financial Intelligence Centre is a small institution
comprising of about 213 employees, forced to operate on a
small budget of about R289 million, and compelled to rely
on other institutions such as the Hawks and the National
Prosecuting Authority to bring cases to court in South
Africa. What this means is that despite all the good work
done by the Financial Intelligence Centre, it is a
peashooter being used in a much bigger gunfight in South
Africa. This means that as soon as we have the
legislative weapons in place, we need to focus on getting
the institutional weapons in place to fight corruption in
South Africa. I thank you. [Applause.]

Declarations of vote (continued):
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Speaker, commander-in-chief, there are
certain things which perhaps we have to deal with
differently when we take over power here in South Africa.


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One of those things is how Cabinet relates to
legislation. Now this is what happened that the National
Treasury assured us throughout the deliberations on the
Financial Intelligence Centre, FIC Bill that Cabinet has
dealt with all the issues sufficiently in terms of the
FIC Bill. And Cabinet is appointed by a President. They
satisfied themselves that they can bring it as a Bill to
Parliament for us to deliberate on that particular Bill.

It was brought here and then we passed it to give it back
to the President to sign it into law into an Act of
Parliament. And we did not change most of the issues; we
just made sure that there is proper articulation of the
critical issues that speak to how the FIC should assist
in the war against financial crimes in South Africa. And
in terms of the warrantless searches we did not change
anything. A President who approved a Bill, brings it to
Parliament, we take it to him, back as it was, in terms
of those sections. And then he says it is
unconstitutional. It is not compliant with the law but he
dealt with it first. He is the one who gave it to us as
Parliament and then he brought it back for the second
time and what is the basis of him bringing it back? It is


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because the Guptas had said, that Bill must not be signed
into law and opportunistically, when that Bill was
brought back specifically to deal warrantless searches,
then the Gupta groups were brought here to come and sing
for their supper, led by Jimmy Manyi and unfortunately
Sello Rasethaba as well because they have been co-opted
into a Gupta band that seeks to protect family interests.

And what were their issues? There were two issues. They
said in their submissions that bank accounts are being
closed and that is the issue that relates to the Guptas.
The second issue they said is that the ANC is going to be
broke for the 2019 elections if we pass the FIC Bill into
law as Parliament. What they are basically suggesting is
that the ANC is financed by money that is laundered. It
is financed by money that is utilised for terrorism
purposes because this is what this Act seeks to combat.
And than the ANC professional‘s forum led by a zombie of
the Guptas called Jimmy Manyi. They come there and say
that, we represent the ANC professionals and we can tell
you that if you pass this Bill, the ANC is going to be
broke for the 2019 elections and we are supposed to
listen to such kind of nonsense? Pure nonsense that has


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happened, now we have expedited the process within the
law and we know that all the legal advices, and including
the legal advice of the Black Business Council by the
way, was unanimous on the fact that we have to pass this
law because there is nothing unconstitutional about it.
There was just grandstanding that had been happening
around it.

So now we must pass this legislation and take it back to
the President but we must agree that there must be a
timeframe within which legislation is signed when we take
it to the President‘s desk to sign because in many
instances it is deliberately delayed without focus in
terms of when it must be made into law. Mineral and
Petroleum Resources Development Act, MPRDA, spent more
than 24 months on the desk of the President without being
signed. It was ultimately brought back here in
Parliament. It was signed very late. So when the FIC Bill
goes back without going to the President‘s desk in light
of the incoming developments, he must immediately sign it
into law so that we can have a proper instrument to fight
financial crimes, money-laundering and all these things
that happen in the global money movements. It is an


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important legislation to pass into law but it is not the
end of it. There is much other legislation that we must
put into action to be able to fight financial crimes that
define South Africa for a very long time. Thank you very
much. [Applause.]

IsiZulu:
Mnu M HLENGWA: Mhlonishwa Somlomo ...

English:
... hon members, one must thank the chairperson of the
standing committee for his flexibility. In fact this was
just nothing but a waste of Parliament‘s time. It was
really unnecessary for us go on this merry-go-round and
this roundabout, literally doing a 360°. The Bill should
have been signed a long time ago but of course because it
is a People‘s Parliament, we must hear every view but I
think we must not abuse the parliamentary process. We
must not seek to circumvent due process for political
expedience because in the final analysis, the duty of the
standing committee was to deal with one aspect but you
had people coming here waffling, going on and on about


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sweet nothing which really had nothing to do with the
matter at hand.

Secondly, is that, as already articulated by previous hon
members, is that really there was nothing
unconstitutional about this.

IsiZulu:
Kodwa nje ...

English:
... what is clear is that there are desperate attempts
to ensure that certain interests are protected, in order
for the people to continue abusing the finances of the
country and ensuring that they line their pockets so that
whenever there is a change of whatever will arise they
are sorted. So, I just want to say that these sponsored
views of Jimmy Manyi and Co, which he brought here to
this Parliament are an indictment really on what we seek
to achieve as a country. People want to protect this
country but they want to use Parliament as a vehicle for
us to abuse what needs to happen.


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This legislation seeks to ensure that we tighten the
loopholes around corruption because ...

IsiZulu:
... ayikho into embi njengalobu ubugebengu bokudliwa
kwezimali zabantu eNingizimu Afrika. Abantu bayahlupheka
ekuseni, emini, ntambama nasebusuku kodwa kukhona
iziqumama nje nongqesta abagwilika ngobusuku obubodwa nje
ngenxa yobugebengu. Ngakho kufanele impela senze
isiqinisekiso [make sure] ukuthi siyawuvala umnyango
wezigebengu sivule umnyango wokuqinisekisa ukuthi izimali
zabantu ziyaphepha ngoba umsebenzi wethu la eNdlini
ukuqinisekisa ukuthi abantu abangaxhashazwa abantu
abasemagunyeni okuphatha njengoba kwenzeka. Iyona ke
lento oyibonile ngesikhathi iPhalamende selihlezi
selixoxa ngalo Mthethosivivinyo ukuthi bekukhona abantu
abekade bethunywe ukuthi abazovimba ngoba kufanele
inkohlakalo eNingizimu Afrika iqhubeke.

English:
So with this legislation we are further laying the
foundation to say this corruption ends here and goes no


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further, if we are serious about the fight against
corruption.

IsiZulu:
Okokugcina, yikho lokho osekushiwo ukuthi cha impela
abantu abake bayisebenzele ngendlela ethembekile imali
abazokhankasa ngayo uma kuyinketho ngoba lokhu ukuthola
izimali ngendlela eyisinxele bese kukhankaswa ngayo
uthole ukuthi abantu bayawina kanti bakhankasa ngemali
yobugebengu. Siyawuvala nalowo mnyango lowo.

English:
Let us even the playing fields to ensure that even the
campaigning money that people are receiving they get it
in good faith. Thank you so much hon Speaker.

Mr M L SHELEMBE: Hon Speaker, the NFP welcomes the report
tabled here today by the Standing Committee on Finance.
The amendments contained in the Bill are aimed to remedy
section 45(b) of the Financial Intelligence Centre Act
which the Constitutional Court declared unconstitutional.
In formulating the amendments, elements of vagueness that
could give rise to legal uncertainty, were correctly


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identified by the legal advisors to the President. The
NFP believes the further amendments address in the report
tabled here today will remove any such uncertainties and
pace the way for the Bill to be enacted into law.

Warrantless searches must at all times be approached with
caution. The Criminal Procedure Act set strict, clear and
unambiguous guidelines for searches without a correctly
obtained warrant and there is no reason why the same
standard should not be set in other pieces of
legislation. At the core of the issue of searches without
a warrant lies the concern of abuse of power, supported
by concern for the dignity of people. The NFP believes
that the proposed amendments to the Bill and reported on
adequately address these twin concerns of abuse of power
and the dignity of people which we support. We also
commend the decision by the Standing Committee on Finance
to engage the public to participate in its deliberations
on the concerns of the President, breaking with tradition
and embracing innovation is a hallmark of growth in our
view, contributes to growing a vibrant and proactive
democracy although the nature of the present concerns


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related to a legal technical aspect of the figure and
could have been dealt with behind closed doors.

The committee identified as imperative that public
participation be encouraged. The NFP believes that that
the direct voice of the people must be given an
opportunity at all times to be heard and taken into
consideration at every level of making of laws. The
response of the committee to the President‘s referral is
encouraging when we consider the widespread input that
individuals and organisations made submissions. If such a
positive trend can be adopted by all standing and
portfolio committees in dealing with questions of
constitutionality of legislation, then our democracy will
be strengthened and will be of benefit to the country and
all of our people as a whole. Thank you.

Declaration(s) of vote:
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Hon Speaker, the UDM supports the
report of the Standing Committee on Finance on this
matter. We think it is very important that we bring a bit
of context into some of the comments we made in the
committee in November. We said when we received the


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reservations of the President, let us hear him out and
listen to what he has to say and then factor it into
whatever amendments where possible.

It was not in anyway, trying to endorse what the
President of the country is trying to do using
legislations to undermine Parliament. The Bill was with
the President because it was passed in May. It was only
returned to Parliament in November and for such an
important piece of legislation, this has a negative
effect on the country.

He was probably busy trying to move all the money that he
was alleged to have kept it in his bunker probably. The
issue is clear that all the deliberations – even if you
read the Report of the Standing Committee on Finance, you
can see clearly that it was a complete waste of the
committee‘s time. The matter was dealt with sufficiently
right at the beginning when the Bill was first sent to
him but he had to send it back to Parliament to delay it
for political reasons. It is absolute nonsense. It is
absolute nonsense even if it is done by the President. He


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needs to know that because he should be leading by
example on these matters.

You see ...

IsiXhosa:
... sima apha siyi-UDM sibane sisithi lamasela baze
abanye abantu bakhalaze belibele ukuba ngenene ...

English:
... this behaviour ...

IsiXhosa:
... ibonisa ubusela bokuba ...

English:
... people must facilitate a process of looting state
resources. People, you have a leader that tries to
facilitate the looting of state resources, who
appropriates public funds for private use and we must say
it is okay with that.

IsiXhosa:


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Niyamosha. Uyamosha. Uyamosha u-Butternut head msuseni.
Enkosi kakhulu.

English:
Ms D CARTER: Hon Speaker, Cope fully supports the
adoption of the Financial Intelligence Centre Amendment
Bill. Cope notes that the Financial Action Task Force,
Fataf, has given us three-month grace period to enact the
Amendment Bill before we are declared noncompliant with
anti-money laundering, tax evasion and antiterrorist
financing standards which would place us in the same
category as North Korea and Iran.

This Bill was initially adopted by this House in May
2016. It took the President a whole six months to refer
this important Bill back to Parliament on what has been
proven to be frivolous and unfounded grounds. Cope
commends the comprehensive and expeditious manner in
which the Portfolio Committee on Finance has attended to
this matter. Cope calls upon the President to act in the
best interests of the country and not to further delay
the enactment of this important anticorruption and
anticriminal Bill. Thank you.


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Mr S N SWART: Hon Speaker, the ACDP will support this
very important Bill. It is time for the looters to be
looted; the poachers poached; and the state capturers to
be captured. We see that one of the important clauses in
this Bill relates to domestic prominent influential
persons who will be subject to enhanced scrutiny as set
out in the Bill. We are just making the cut-off date that
was given by the Financial Action Task Force which
indicated that they were giving South Africa time until
the end of this month to bring our regulatory framework
into place. If we fail we could have severe consequences
with foreign regulators and banks about our commitment to
vigilant financial regulation. Now we have accepted this
and we trust that the House, from all indications, will
unanimously accept these amendments.

However, other speakers have referred to a very important
aspect and maybe we, as Parliament, need to do an audit
of Bills that we have passed which are lying on the
President‘s desk and need to be signed. Yes, he is fully
entitled to send matters back to Parliament where he is
concerned about the constitutionality, but how many of
you remember the Protection of the State Information


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Bill? That Bill was controversial. It was passed at the
end of 2014, before the end of the last elections and it
is still sitting. The President referred that Bill back
to Parliament. We amended it and it is now sitting on his
desk.

Whether you like that Bill or not, it should not be
allowed that the President sits with the Bill once he has
exercised his constitutional prerogative and then does
not sign it into law because that undermines the
separation of powers and Parliament. In that case, as in
other cases, if he still has a concern he is fully
entitled to refer it to the Constitutional Court. So,
thank you Speaker. The ACDP will support this Bill.

Ms T V TOBIAS: Hon Speaker, let me say this up front. I
prepared notes because I thought there was going to be
substantive inputs that will be made to effect changes on
the legislation. All that was there was huffing and
puffing, so to speak. Nevertheless, let me respond to
some of the huffing and puffing that has been there
because the ANC has the right to reply.


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Section 45(b) of the Financial Intelligence Centre
Amendment Bill relates to warrantless searches and is
very clear on why there is a need for inspectors to do
warrantless searches. It encourages an element of
surprise. In all the institutions you have an element of
surprise in the event that you suspect there has been
wrongdoing. However, it does that within the prescripts
of the law. That means, before inspectors do that, they
will submit a request to a judge to do a search. In any
event that the process is slower, they will inform their
supervisors who will give them advice to continue with
that search.

Having looked at and perused this clause that the
President said it might be unconstitutional, we consulted
Senior Counsels. We have, for instance Adv J Gauntlett,
SC, in our meeting. We are convinced as a Finance
Committee that this piece of legislation will meet the
constitutional muster.

For any member to stand here and suggest that the reason
why we had to relook at the piece of legislation was on
the basis that Mr Mzwanele Manyi had ulterior motives is


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not correct. Let us make it very clear that, in this
institution, any member of the public has the right to be
heard by the Parliament. This is the Parliament of the
people.

If by any chance - and I am not speaking on behalf of
anybody because I am one person who engaged Mr Manyi
vigorously and told him that he did not give us a legal
opinion and therefore we do not consider his opinion. Do
not stand here and pretend that we did not engage Mr
Manyi. We asked him to give us a legal opinion so that we
can listen to him. Instead, Mr Manyi said he would
approach the Constitutional Court for review. We said
it‘s okay if he does that, but as a committee we told him
we believed that this piece of legislation, as it stands,
will meet the constitutional muster.

South Africa belongs to international community. It is a
pity we missed the deadline to submit the report on money
laundering and antiterrorism to Financial Action Task
Force, Fataf. At least we were given an opportunity to
make a later submission which we are going to do. Let us
be honest, the President has a lot on his plate and does


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not only sign Bills; he leads government.
[Interjections.] You cannot expect him to only look at
one piece of legislation. Let us give him an opportunity.
He had a view and we did not necessarily agree with his
view but let us give him an opportunity to relook at the
legislation and sign it. [Interjections.]

I also see that you like one family. I thought you are
the representatives of the people. Why don‘t you speak
about other people who spoke to this legislation? You did
not even mention all those people, including Council for
the Advancement of the SA Constitution, Casac, who
appeared before us and had views to raise. Are you not
representing them? It is clear who the DA represents.
[Interjections.] I think the voters will realise that.
They are worried that their businesses will be searched
and do not want warrantless searches. Those warrantless
searches will continue whether you like it or not.

For the first time, hon Malema, hon Shivhambu agrees with
us. Please do not fight us; we are one on this one. I
thank you very much, hon Speaker. [Applause.]


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The Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the
Report be adopted and the Bill be passed.

Motion agreed to.

Report adopted and Bill accordingly passed.

CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT OF
SOUTH AFRICA’S PROTOCOL OF ACCESSION TO THE AGREEMENT
ESTABLISHING THE ADVISORY CENTRE ON WORLD TRADE
ORGANISATION (WTO) LAW (ACWL)

Ms J L FUBBS: My apologies, hon Speaker. Yes, this
particular Protocol of Accession to the Agreement
Establishing the Advisory Centre on the World Trade
Organisation Law will be a particular value to South
Africa. One of the reasons which South Africa will
benefit from this is being able to access legal capacity
at a much lower cost, a reduced weight, to take for the
advantages of the benefits offered by the World Trade
Organisation. In this particular tight global economy, it
is of great importance that we are able to finance these
operations within our budget and the cost of doing so


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overseas is a tremendous drain on our budget that could
be used in other areas.

The Advisory Centre on WTO Law, ACW, assists countries
and the World Trade Organisation, WTO, disputes
settlement proceedings at the discounted rates. The
financial implications for the ACW for joining at are far
lower than if we had to foot the bill ourselves in this
regard. This was discussed and we do believe that South
Africa can effectively use its policy space with this
support that we will be getting under this legal support
process.

However, the committee looked at this, accepted it and
recommends that the House adopts this and the interests
of ensuring that any dispute we may encounter or
clarifications we can seek are within our financial
capacity as a sovereign country. The ANC alongside all
the other parties supports this accession. I thank you.

Declarations of vote:
Mr D W MACPHERSON: Hon Speaker, the DA supports the
recommendations. However, it is important that we deal


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with another acronym like the WTO, that is radical
economic transformation, RET. For this, this term and
what is being done under RET that will severely damage
our standing in forums like the WTO, Albert Einstein
famously said:

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and
expecting different results.

It was with much interest and even better breaths that
President Jacob Zuma proudly announced two South Africans
in his state of the nation address that his government
will be embarking upon radical economic transformation.
One can only then wonder what his government has been
doing for the last 22 years and why only now they bring
RET to the fore. For too long the ANC and President Zuma
have govern like they have been in opposition, unwilling
to change economic environment for small businesses and
entrepreneurs in order for them to make a living and
contribute to our economy. All manner of excuses have
been rolled out from various challenges to the slow down
and economic growth - the Minister Davies his favourite
excuse - electricity blackout under the watch of the ANC,


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and this year‘s catch phrase which the hon Molefe will
know quite well, white monopoly capital.

The truth is that the ANC has the ability and importantly
the majority to write policies, laws and bylaws that make
it easier for businesses to grow. If they have failed on
every score what they have done rather is making the
incredible difficult for anyone outside of the Zupta
circle to make a decent living from cumbersome
regulations to lack of access to capital for black
entrepreneurs and to government departments paying
suppliers late. The ANC has become the very enemy to
anyone with or starting a business.

The ANC and President Zuma think by putting the word
―radical‖ in front of economic transformation, this will
somehow make it more radical. I believe that the new
funds commitment for radical economic transformation is
actually a response to pressure from the state captured
faction of the ANC or it is the perfect excuse to change
procurement rules and the black economic empowerment,
BEE, codes of good practice under the guides of speeding
up transformation which, in fact, will allow for more


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tenders for cronies and well connected friends. RET is
actually a plan for radical corruption.

In eThekwini Municipality and under the framework of
accelerating transformation subcontractors or service
providers will be selected from the wards where the
service is to be undertaken. This will be nothing more
than an opportunity for the ANC to further extend
patronage. One can only imagine the ANC local branch
executive selecting who those subcontractors will be
including uMkhonto weSizwe, MK, veterans and the ANC
Youth League members. It is important to see this for
what it is, nothing but legalised corruption and
patronage or under the philosophy of being radical.

The ANC government has been on the same road of selfenrichment, corruption, overseeing increasing
unemployment and continued neglect of job crushing
policies with business red tape. Therefore, I would think
that by becoming radical they can float the sinking ship
of their government. The truth is that President Zuma and
his cohort of Ministers will keep doing the same things
over and over and over, unable to change because the


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vested interests in continuing the system or patronage
will not allow it to end.

In 2017, it seems that the status quo is set to remain,
Luthuli House and Tuynhuys firmly and asylum for the
insane trying desperately to do the same thing with
different results just under a new radical name. I thank
you.

Mr G A GARDEE: Madam Speaker, South Africa and the world
... [Interjections.]... Of course, we are addressing the
world here. The EFF rejects this request by the executive
to accede to the Protocol on the World Trade Organisation
Law Advisory offices. We reject this precisely because we
no longer trust the ruling party. You come here and
request approval to be part of international instruments.
Just in the past week or two the North Gauteng High Court
called you into order because you did not come here to
ask for approval to withdraw from the International
Criminal Court, ICC. We do not know whether you will
withdraw from this World Trade Organisation without
having coming here to ask for approval to withdraw, but


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now you have come here to ask for approval to sign the
international instrument.

Well, notwithstanding that objectively so we disagree
with this protocol because it is going to kill our local
industry. There is a municipality in Lekwa, Madam
Speaker. It can only pay salaries once the chicken
poultry there at Standerton has paid its rates and taxes.
With this World Trade Organisation‘s conduct it is known
for killing local industries and if we do actually accede
to these international instruments, they are coming here
to advice us on how much more we should kill our own
local industries. It started with the textile, now it is
with the poultry. So, you want us to be complicit on such
unleashing of sufferings to our people.

There is a loss of jobs in South Africa. In fact, from
load shedding to job shedding because of policies that
are premised on the ideology of the international
monopoly capital of which the World Trade Organisation
actually is championing throughout the world and more so
on developing countries.


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There is nothing positive about the Advisory Centre on
World Trade Law and it still gives powers to its director
to make the final decision on what claims to bring based
on the policy of the centre than the policy of the
sovereign states who are members to that organisation.
Such influence by the World Trade Organisation on member
states on their sovereignty and policies which should
inform its approach on issues of trade internationally
will kill the economy of the country. It is on this basis
and premises, Madam Speaker, South Africa and the world
that we reject this international instrument. We thank
you. [Applause.]

The SPEAKER: The hon Oosthuizen ...

Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Hon Speaker, the advisory centre with
its experience and knowledge of trade dispute settlement
systems represents a significant advantage and can offer
opportunities to developing countries like South Africa.

Still, the challenge of a lack of expertise in World
Trade Organisation, WTO, Law and international trade law
and the capacity to organise information concerning trade


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barriers, as well as the ability to challenge them,
hindered most small and developing economies. Add this to
the cost factor of international trade legal systems and
the weak remedies, then dispute settlements sometimes do
not justify the time and money.

The Advisory Centre on WTO Law, ACWL, in its mandate to
ensure that developing and least-developed countries with
its financial and human constraints can also participate
fully in the WTO‘s legal system is a noble goal. However,
there are also challenges like language and the enormous
costs involved.

For us to participate meaningfully in the WTO dispute
settlement system, we need to increase institutional
capacity and co-ordination of trade policy. We will need
to include private-sector and civil society
representatives.

Additionally, as a founding member of the WTO, South
Africa must fulfil all obligations assumed by it under
the WTO agreements. The WTO agreements form a package and


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members cannot selectively pick agreements to join or
implement.

Therefore, introducing a domestic measure limiting
foreign participation in the private security industry
would institute a clear violation of South Africa‘s
commitment under the General Agreement on Trade in
Services, Gats.

Is South Africa following a closed-door policy or is it
open for business as government would have us believe?
Deluding the world and the WTO that our economy is more
open than it is is alarming, and raises questions about
the protocol agreement and the integrity of our
government. The IFP supports the approval for the
protocol. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

The SPEAKER: I would like to correct myself, hon
Esterhuizen. I‘m very sorry for calling you Oosthuizen.
Hon Khubisa?

Prof N M KHUBISA: Thank you, Madam Speaker. The
international political landscape today is a stark


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reflection of a collective global history steeped in
colonialism, exploitation and deep-rooted inequality
which has become a structural feature of the modern
international order.

It is within this context that the NFP welcomes the
report of the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry
tabled here today. Today we are asked to ratify an
agreement that will lead to the establishment of the
ACWL. In a sense we are asked to agree to the founding
document or constitution of an international centre which
has as its aim the levelling of the field for settling
trade-related disputes.

The formation of the WTO gave rise to a complex
international legal system with elaborate procedures for
settling trade disputes, and a need was identified to
address the issue of access to resources to resolve
international trade disputes. Basically, there is a need
to ensure that all members of the WTO have equal access
to the dispute resolution procedure regardless of whether
a member state can afford the expertise and advice to
engage successfully or not.


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We have a similar mechanism here in South Africa in the
form of Legal Aid that assists indigent people to access
justice. In a similar fashion, the advisory centre will
assist developing countries, countries with an economy in
transit and less-developed countries to access the WTO
dispute resolution process.

The NFP is in favour of approving the protocol as we can
identify with the ethos, aims and objectives of the
advisory centre. In particular, the NFP is impressed with
the fairness of linking the dues and the benefits of
member states on a sliding scale to the relative strength
of each country‘s economy.

South Africa is classified as an upper middle-income
country and our contribution to the endowment fund that
will kick-start the advisory centre amounts to one point
three million.

Finally, by approving the protocol we are contributing to
a source that will be of greater benefit to lessdeveloping countries with substantially weaker economies
than ours. Proportionally, these countries are less


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likely to engage in successful international trade
dispute resolutions than we are without external support,
and if our approval of the protocol can go some way in
assisting those less fortunate than us then the act of
giving our support is politically, socially and
economically justified, and indeed desirable.

Mr N J J VAN R KOORNHOF: Thank you, Madam Speaker. We
welcome the support by the various political parties in
terms of this protocol. This is a positive improvement
and is long overdue. We are members of the WTO and it‘s
therefore important that South Africa participates. We
shall now have the benefit of the advisory centre of
legal resources and we will be able to protect our
agreements and this protocol. It is positive.

It is unfortunate that the EFF tried to play another
matter. They should‘ve supported this. This is to the
benefit of South Africa and to the benefit of the poor.
The ANC will support this, as eloquently explained by our
chairperson. [Applause.]


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The SPEAKER: Hon members, given that there are objections
— there is an objection by the EFF — to the approval of
South Africa‘s Protocol of Accession to the Agreement
Establishing the Advisory Centre on World Trade
Organisation, WTO, Law, ACWL, as it appears on the Order
Paper, I will have to put the question.

Question put.

South Africa‘s Protocol of Accession to the Agreement
Establishing the Advisory Centre on World Trade
Organisation, WTO, Law, ACWL, accordingly approved
(Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

AMENDMENT OF SECTION 25 OF THE CONSTITUTION

(Draft Resolution)

Mr J S MALEMA: Hon Speaker and the leadership of the EFF,
this is a motion that seeks to unite black people in
South Africa and ordinarily - if leadership was provided,
we shouldn‘t be having this debate because the land
should have been returned into the hands of the rightful


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owners. We all know that the Dutch gangsters arrived here
and took our land by force and the struggle has since
been about the return of the land into the hands of
rightful owners. Yet those who went to negotiate on
behalf of our people during the negotiations sold out
this fundamental principle which constituted the struggle
against colonialism. So, those who claim to be radical
enough and who want radical change today should actually
be in the forefront of agreeing that this Constitution
must be changed to make it possible for our people to own
the land.

It can‘t be correct that less than 10% of the population
owns almost more than 75% of the land and those people
who own the land happen to be - in an acceptable
language, ‗private people like individuals, trusts and
companies,‘ but when you search deep as to who are these
people, they are white people who are still owning our
land.

We remain a conquered nation even when we claim to have
democracy. We remain a conquered nation because white
monopoly capital still owns the means of production and


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the centre of that is the land question. The dominance of
white people cannot go away, particularly white supremacy
for as long as land is not returned into the hands of the
people.

We are the only country where we say revolution has taken
place yet those who were oppressing us have not lost
anything after the revolution. We remain as we were even
before 1994. So we are saying that black of people - all
of us, need to unite and amend the Constitution so that
we can expropriate land without compensation.
[Interjections.]

There is no white person who will understand that clarion
call because they don‘t know the pain of being landless.
Only those who have gone through a passage of being
landless will appreciate where we come from on the issue
of the land. The issue of the land cannot be a
campaigning issue. The issue of the land cannot be a
rhetorical question. The issue of the land should be the
issue of commitment.


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Hon members, we have taken an oath here and when we take
an oath, we are simply saying we are loyal to the land.
But how can we be loyal to the land which is in the hands
of private individuals. We must be loyal to the land that
belongs to us. The majority of our people say South
Africa belongs to them, yet they do not have proof to
show that indeed South Africa belongs to them because
many of them do not even know how a title deed looks
like. Many generations died without even knowing how a
title deed looks like. It is only through the
expropriation of land without compensation that our
people will be the rightful owners of this country. We
cannot keep on saying that South Africa belongs to all
who live in it, yet we have nothing to show.

Today the ANC should come with the EFF - there is 6%
available, we give it to you with no condition to amend
the Constitution and take the land. If you don‘t agree
with us today, it means you are disagreeing with hon
Ayanda Dlodlo. If you don‘t agree with us today it means
you don‘t agree with your outgoing President on the issue
of expropriation of land without compensation. Even to
the Minister of Rural Development and Land Reform, I say


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this is a matter that can unite black people. This is a
matter that all of us should stand together for and
isolate white monopoly capital. This is a matter that
indicates to us that this is a genuine call which we as
black people can identify with. The ANC ...

Sepedi
... re re 6% ke ye yona; re le fa yona. A re tšeeng
lefase re lemeng. A re tšeeng lefase re ageng difeme. A
re tšeeng lefase re le fe batho ba rena ba be le magae;
ba be le ...

English:
... a place to call home. Hon Nzimande have already
started taking the land. If you vote against this, it is
a waste of time. We are already giving our people the
land and we are not ashamed of that. People of South
Africa, where you see a beautiful land, take it, it
belongs to you. [Interjections.]

Ms P C NGWENYA-MABILA: Hon Speaker and hon members, we
know the history of the land dispossession. We also know
how we are going to address that. We are not going to be


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told what to do. We are not in alliance with anyone else.
We are a ruling government.

We agree as the ANC that the land reform process is slow
that is why various programmes have been initiated to
address the land question. But we disagree with the
motion tabled by hon Shivambu. We totally reject that we
amend section 25 (2) of the Constitution.

Expropriation of land should be done for public purpose
and public interests, not for the EFF purpose and the EFF
interests. Secondly, expropriation without compensation
is unconstitutional. We need to respect and uphold the
Constitution as citizens of this country and moreover as
members of this House. Expropriation must be subject to
just and equitable compensation as indicated in section
25(2)(b) of the Constitution, the amount of which and the
time and manner of payment of which have been agreed to
by those affected or decided or approved by a court. We
still believe that if there is a dispute between parties
our courts will play a role in mediating. Expropriation
with compensation takes into account the current use of
the land; the history of acquisition; the market value of


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property; the extent of the state investment and subsidy
in the acquisition; and beneficial capital improvement of
property.

We don‘t agree with the establishment of the ad hoc
committee in terms of Rule 253(1)(a) and (3), to address
the loopholes of the Constitution. We believe that the
Constitution is the supreme law of the country therefore
it cannot be reviewed by the ad hoc committee. As you
have mentioned Hon Shivambu that Parliament has a
Constitutional Review Committee, it is therefore the
responsibility of that committee to review the
Constitution, not the ad hoc committee. The Constitution
will be reviewed when it‘s necessary. Therefore, the
issue of the ad hoc committee falls of.

The issue of intensive public consultation is a
constitutional matter, no question about it, as section
59 of the Constitution clearly indicates that
Parliament must involve the public in all the legislative
processes. That is why we respect the decisions of the
courts if they decide that no sufficient public
participation was done such as in the Expropriation


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Amendment Bill and the Restitution of Land Rights
Amendment Bill to mention the few. Therefore, it is our
responsibility to restart the process and ensure that
there is an intense public participation.

The ANC‘s Ready to Govern document has four pillars. One
of them is to overcome the legacy of inequality and
injustice created by colonialism and apartheid in a swift
progressive and principled way. That is what the ANC
government is doing guided by its policies, not by the
EFF.

The 53rd national conference of the ANC in 2012,
confirmed the resolution taken in the 52nd conference of
2007 on rural development, agrarian change and land
reform. Furthermore, the 53rd national conference of the
ANC adopted the National Development Plan, NDP, which
sets out the country‘s vision for the period up to 2030.

To address the land issue and the land ownership, the
following legislations were enacted: the Upgrading of
Land Tenure Rights Act, Act 112 of 1991, the Provision of
Land and Assistance Act, Act 125 of 1993, the Communal


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Property Association Act, Act 28 of 1996 and the Labour
Tenants Act, Act 3 of 1996. We agree that the
implementation of these Acts is very slow. We need to do
more.

The Restitution of Land Rights Act, Act 22 of 1994, was
passed and it makes provision for the restitution of the
rights of land to persons or communities disposed of such
rights after 19 June 1913 as a result of the past
racially discrimination laws or practices. To administer
this Act, the Commission on the Restitution of Land
Rights and the Land Claims Court were established. This
Act indicates that the Minister is authorised to
purchase, acquire in any other manner or expropriate land
or rights in land for the purpose of restitution.

Restitution process is slow due to many reasons such as
high prices of land, conflicts amongst beneficiaries,
court cases taking long to be concluded and some
beneficiaries opt for financial compensation instead of
land which undermines the land question. We acknowledge
that the land reform is very slow, but it must be done
within the prescripts of the law.


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The willing-seller, willing-buyer principle resulted in
the state paying inflated prices for land which
contributed to the delay of the land reform process. Even
if that was the case, we need to address this matter
soberly.

The commission has settled 79 208 land claims as at 31
January 2017, for one million beneficiaries and 408 000
households which accounts to 3,3 million hectares. From
1994, restitution has spent more than R36,5 billion of
which R11 billion was for financial compensation. There
are 6 988 claims outstanding which were lodged by
December 1998, but there are plans in place to deal with
this and fast-track the restitution process.

The high prices charged by sellers will be addressed by
the Office of the Valuer-General which has been
established in terms of the Property Valuation Act, Act
17 of 2014, to ensure that government pays just and
equitable compensation. Let‘s give the Valuer–General
time to do his work and we will see the difference with
regard to the land price.


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The department is currently busy with consultations with
regard to exceptional policy which will address those
people whose land has been taken before 19 June 1913,
which will include the Khoi and the San, the heritage
sites and the historical land marks as decided by the
53rd conference of the ANC that there be exceptions to
the 1913 cut off date.

The strengthening of the relative rights of the people
working the land was proclaimed by the Minister in 2014.
It‘s also one way of addressing skewed land ownership. It
has started and it will be extended to other areas. The
department is busy drafting policy on the regulations of
land holdings to ensure that South Africans own land and
foreigners must be leased the land.

In Polokwane the ANC reaffirmed that the comprehensive
land audit be done and phase 1 was completed. The
department is in the process of finalising phase 2 of the
land audit to ensure that equitable land allocation and
use across race, gender and class is realised.


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The establishment of the institutions such as the Land
Right Management committees and Land Rights Management
Board will assist in involving the local people in the
regulation of the land use and distribution when the
Extension of Security of Tenure Amendment Bill has been
passed. The department has been able to scale up
Recapitalisation and Development Programme, Recap, and
comprehensive agricultural supports by providing farming
implements, seeds, livestock and irrigation
infrastructure. The Recap has improved the economic
condition of other beneficiaries such as the Ravela
beneficiaries, Marinda and others. Currently, 1 496 farms
are under Recap since 2009, which constitute
421 846 million hectares amounting to R4 billion. Some
projects are productive and others are still experiencing
challenges.

As South Africans we have to respect and uphold the
Constitution. It is therefore amazing when other Members
of Parliament who are lawmakers influence people to grab
land instead of educating and advising them. We are hon
members and let‘s behave as such, not as horrible
members. Expropriation without compensation is


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unconstitutional.

As ANC we agreed that the land reform process is slow, it
needs to be accelerated. We don‘t support this motion. We
still believe that just and equitable compensation is a
solution like in any other African countries such as
Lesotho, Zambia, Malawi and Namibia. Therefore,
#Themotionmustfall. I thank you

Afrikaans:
Dr A LOTRIET: Speaker, die Handves van Menseregte is die
hoeksteen van demokrasie in Suid-Afrika wat die regte van
almal verseker en wat die demokratiese waardes van
menswaardigheid, gelykheid, en vryheid bevestig. Geen
wysiging van enige artikel van die Grondwet mag hierdie
basiese waardes skend nie.

Die Grondwet het ook ‘n dubbele rol deur, aan die een
kant, hierdie waardes te beskerm en, aan die ander kant,
te verseker dat onregte van die verlede aangespreek word,
veral grondonteiening wat tot onmeetbare sosiale en
ekonomiese verwoesting gelei het.


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Die vraag voor ons vandag is of artikel 25 in die weg
staan van grondhervorming. Sal grondhervorming inderdaad
versnel word deur vir onteiening sonder vergoeding
voorsiening te maak? Wat sal die gevolg wees as
vergoeding verwyder word?

English:
Let us look specifically at what section 25 allows. It is
important to note that section 25 does not guarantee
property rights but merely protects it from arbitrary
state interference. Deprivation that is not arbitrary is
permissible.

Contrary to popular belief, the property clause does not
carry the phrase ―willing-buyer, willing-seller‖. This is
often quoted as the reason for the lack of land reform,
but the Constitution does not lay down that standard. It
includes market value as only one factor amongst five
that must be taken into consideration. The property
clause allows for the court to determine the
compensation, and the only requirement is that it must be
just and equitable – in line with the guiding principles
of the Constitution.


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The Constitutional Court judgment in the Haffejee case
made it clear that the state may expropriate property
even when the seller is refusing to accept a reasonable
offer or even before compensation has been determined.
Thus compensation remains a requirement for expropriation
but not a prerequisite. Therefore, it cannot be seen as
the stumbling block.

The dispossession of land where people lost their
ownership has caused tremendous pain and a loss of
dignity. Security of property ownership, however,
provides the opportunity of living a life of dignity
beyond mere existence. It protects the poor against a
predatory state. Expropriation without compensation, as a
constitutional principle, will create insecurity and
uncertainty of property ownership for decades to come. It
can indeed again make the kind of dispossession
experienced during apartheid a possibility.

It is clear that it is not section 25 that stands in the
way of land reform; it is, in fact, enabling it, ordering
it. What stands in the way is government‘s implementation
of it.


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Afrikaans:
Wanneer daar ‘n oproep is om onteiening sonder vergoeding
wat teen die basiese waardes en regte, spesifiek
eiendomsregte van die Grondwet gaan, moet ons besin oor
of ons inderdaad gehoor en uitvoering sal gee aan die
tipe samelewing soos voorsien in die Grondwet.

Die DA is ten gunste van eiendomsregte vir die armstes in
ons samelewing. Om vergoeding uit te haal, druis lynreg
in teen die DA se visie van ‘n regverdige
oopgeleentheidsamelewing vir almal van ons. [Applous.]

English:
Ms N V MENTE: Speaker, last Friday, Mr Zuma, the outgoing
President of South Africa, spoke in Pretoria and said the
following:

How are we going to achieve all the goals mentioned
in the state of the nation address and all the laws
and policies that we are busy amending to enable
faster land reform, including land expropriation
without compensation as provided for in the
Constitution?


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Today, you distort that.

Whilst debating the state of the nation address, Mr
Gugile Nkwinti seated here said there is a need to have a
law that makes it possible for the state to expropriate
the land without compensating illegitimate landowners.
Then, the Deputy Minister, Ms Ayanda Dlodlo, emphasised
that we must take back the stolen land without paying
those whose claim to it is an outcome of historical
injustices.

The ruling party has been speaking about radical economic
transformation, and the EFF stands here to proclaim that
radical economic transformation without expropriation of
land without compensation is hot air. We are here to
suggest a practical proposal to cogently address the more
than 350-year historical injustice of land theft and
alienation perpetrated by a minority of white settlers
against African people in the country and dispel the
notion by the Premier of the Western Cape, Helen Zille,
that 45% by now belongs to black people. That is not
true. It is a mere 30%. Only 8% of land has been bought


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for billions of rand so far, and it will take 100 years
to buy at least 30% of the land.

Central to the post-1994 land reform agenda is section 25
of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa,
which provides for the three-tier land reform programme.
However, in the same Constitution is the controversial
property clause, section 25(1), which reads as follows:

No one may be deprived of property except in terms of
law of general application, and no law may permit
arbitrary deprivation of property.

Section 25(2) of the Constitution does provide for the
expropriation of land for both public purpose and in the
public interest, but it states clearly that such
expropriation must be subject to compensation.
Section 25(3) enjoins the state to pay what it calls
―just and equitable‖ compensation, taking into account a
number of factors, including the history of how the land
was acquired and the market value of the land.


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Therefore, section 25 of the Constitution provides two
irreconcilable imperatives. Firstly, it provides for
redress for historical injustices through land reform.
Secondly, it also entrenches the principle of protection
of private property rights, which is inimical to
comprehensive land reform. Comprehensive land reform
would be impossible to attain within the current
constitutional framework that protects intergenerational
dispossession and imposes a framework of the protection
of private property rights acquired through a long
process of plunder.

The resolution of this question is directly linked to the
decolonisation of our country and overcoming the colonial
tribal divisions, apartheid artificial identities, and an
end to white supremacy. The resolution of the land
question is basically about creating a new society based
on values, equality, and democracy for all.

Therefore, that is why, today, we are offering you our 6%
so that we can deal with section 25 of the Constitution.
Thank you. [Applause.] [Time expired.]


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Prof C T MSIMANG: House Chair, the IFP strongly supports
the call for government to accelerate the allocation of
land to the millions of landless Africans. The IFP goes
further to emphasise that government should prioritise
such redistribution to those who need the land most – the
homeless people in our towns and cities.

In 1994, government was rightly applauded when it
repealed all legislation constraining African people‘s
movement to urban areas. The repeal ushered in an
unprecedented influx of Africans to our towns and cities.
This has made South Africa the most urbanised country in
Africa, with 62% of South Africans becoming urbanised.
Government must have anticipated this and developed
strategies to accommodate this influx, yet nothing had
been done.

Many of these nationals have formed homeless people‘s
organisations to bring their plight to the attention of
authorities but to no avail. Many still have to resort to
land grabbing where they build their squatter camps. We
are advised against using the term ―squatter camps‖ in
favour of more glorious terms such as ―informal


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settlements‖, yet there is nothing glorious about
squatter camps. You call them by any other name – they
remain squatter camps.

Government encouraged these people to venture to city
life but has failed to generate jobs for them. In the
squatter camps, the cities cannot even offer them basic
services. They are regarded as temporary sojourners, yet
there is no development in rural areas to stem the tide
of urbanisation or attract them to return to the rural
areas.

We talk here about people who live in squalid conditions.
Many of them are not only homeless but also poor and
unemployed. They live in areas that are not fit for human
habitation. They live on sinkholes where their shacks can
collapse at any moment. We are talking about people who
build on river banks, such as the Jukskei in Johannesburg
which, when in flood, washes away their homes, taking all
their property and even taking lives. Ironically,
residential land in our cities is state owned.
Municipalities do not need to negotiate with willing
sellers to access it.


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Turning now to the 30% farming land that was promised to
the black people, the IFP agrees that progress has been
very slow and, therefore, supports appropriation with the
payment of fair compensation. I thank you. [Time
expired.]

Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Hon House Chair, hon members in the
House and distinguished guests in the gallery, once again
we are called upon to deliberate on the challenges faced
by the people in our country who were removed from and
dispossessed of their land in the most inhumane manner.
This pain and suffering was endured by our people under
the apartheid regime, and let me reiterate - the
apartheid regime was not only made up of white South
Africans. There were many others of different races who
colluded with the apartheid regime and who conducted
their affairs under a divide-and-rule policy.
[Interjections.]

What is very clear, and what we must agree on is that the
principle of willing-buyer, willing-seller has failed.
What we must agree on is that the pace with which we are
addressing the challenges of the restitution of land is


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not good enough. What we must admit is that those who are
holding onto the land which, we all know, is a very small
percentage of people owning more than approximately 70%
of the land, cannot be allowed and tolerated any longer.

Another very important point is this. When this land was
taken away from our people – and we must not forget that
prime land was taken away from our people – they were
sent away to go and live in the rural areas and
outskirts, where there were no amenities or facilities,
whatsoever. So, when we are now going to provide land to
these people, we must take that into consideration.

No amount of financial contribution or compensation is
good enough. What we need to do and must do is to provide
each and every South African family in South Africa with
land which is their right and which belongs to them. The
land belongs to everyone who lives in it. That is why,
with the statement that we want radical economic
transformation, the very first step in the country would
be to ensure that every South African has their dignity
and identity, which must start from that land.


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We do agree with the expropriation, since the willingbuyer, willing-seller principle has failed. As for
compensation, yes, again, one needs to address what they
took, where that land existed, its value at that stage,
and what they are going to get paid. So, compensation
must now not necessarily be based on prime land that they
might own right now.

Dispossession continues. Take the area, right now in
Woodstock, where people are being removed. Yet we are
doing nothing about it. Judge Essa Moosa, who died on
Sunday, was one of the victims who was moved and removed
from District Six. So, let us expedite and accelerate
this process of restitution. Thank you. [Time expired.]

Mr M L W FILTANE: Chair, I shall not trumpet it, I will
trump it! The UDM supports the motion.

The ruthless exploitation of the black people in their
country, the seizure of their land and the enforced
harnessing of their labour leaves the indigenous citizens
with only voting power but nothing to effect fundamental
change in their daily lives. They are dehumanised, with


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no security and no social or economic worth in their
motherland. Food and shelter are no longer freely shared
amongst the people because they don‘t own land to build
shelter and produce food on.

The whole point of the freedom struggle was the
repossession by African people of all its properties from
the hands of the colonisers who had captured it through
the barrel of a gun. Early freedom songs were about the
land, such as ...

IsiXhosa:
Thina sizwe esimnyama,
Sikhalela izwe lethu
Elathathwa ngabamhlophe
Mabawuyeke umhlaba wethu.

English:
Chief Maqoma once told a colonial soldier, Col Wade,
that:

... we are to have the land again. It was bequeathed
to us by our ancestors; to hold, nurture and make it


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productive for their progeny ... You came out of the
sea to our land. Like a serpent you emerged from the
water ... Besides, you had no tongue or speech for
us. We waited to hear why you had come. Instead, we
heard you were settling and taking possession of our
land.

He continued:

But this is our land. ... You made us vanish, not
exist. Our land is us, we are our land. ... From the
sea you had no cattle. Now you have many cows and
sheep ... War you made to dispossess. ... Blood you
spilled to take even more. ... We cannot give up, we
cannot rest. Without land, we cannot be.

[Interjections.] At the heart of the land question in
South Africa is how to reverse the dire effects of the
diabolical Natives Land Act which was intended to
legalise land robbery, starting with the settler
colonisation. It is about the large-scale redistribution
of land to contribute to the transformation of the


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economy and the eradication of poverty, both in rural and
urban areas.

The current provisions of section 25(7) of the
Constitution confine the period of dispossession to after
19 June 1913. As illustrated above, the dispossession of
Africans was already moving towards its third century at
the time of the 1913 Natives Land Act, and many wars of
resistance were fought.

To the ANC, I say that the current owners of the land
inflate prices such that government intentions to acquire
it are impossible to achieve. I was speaking to people
only yesterday and they say there are no sales of farms
going on anymore because they keep on shooting up the
prices.

Our Constitution does allow for the amendment of itself.
So, to the ANC I say it is not unconstitutional to push
for this. Don‘t mislead people – not deliberately. In
this regard, our Constitution must provide for the return
of land, and if needs be, compensate only for the
improvements made on the land and do not buy back our own


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land. This means that the programme for the return of
land to the tillers must be swift, radical and must
uproot the interests of the minority landowners. I thank
you. [Applause.]

Afrikaans:
Dr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Voorsitter, hierdie debat is ‘n
baie belangrike debat. Die mense en die grondeienaars van
Suid-Afrika moet mooi luister.

Daar is ‘n gedagte dat as daar gepraat word van grond en
grondonteiening, verwys dit net na boere en landbougrond.
As dit gaan oor onteiening, gaan dit oor elke eienaar van
grond. Of jy nou ‘n huis besit in ‘n dorp of in ‘n stad,
of ‘n plaas, raak dit jou. As daar gesê word dat daar
onteiening sonder vergoeding moet wees, moet jy weet dat
jou huis in die dorp of in die stad, of jou plaas is dan
ter sprake.

English:
Hon Chair, it is really a pity that the white people are
always made the scapegoats when it comes to land reform.
[Interjections.] Let me put it quite clearly. The


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rightful owners of property and land in South Africa are
those people who paid, worked hard, who paid for the land
and who have a title deed at the Deeds Office.
[Interjections.] Those are the rightful owners of land
and you will not be able to just come and take it. That
is not possible.

South Africa is a constitutional democracy.
[Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon
members!

Dr P J GROENEWALD: Any land will have to go through a
constitutional process if you want to expropriate it.

Please, stop blaming the white people for everything that
goes wrong. [Interjections.] It is the incompetency of
the governing party that cannot ensure that there is
enough land expropriation or land reform in South Africa.

More than 5% of all land ends up in the open market,
annually.


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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon
members!

Dr P J GROENEWALD: Some of those properties, especially
some farms, are priced below market value because of the
drought. So, the government is in such a good position
that they can obtain thousands and millions of hectares
of land below market price. Why don‘t you do that? Why do
you use the rhetoric that it is because of the white
people?

Now, I am very worried that the hon Zuma said that they
will expropriate without paying compensation. It seems
that the hon members of the ANC in Parliament, at least,
differ from him.

I say it again. The owners of the land are the people who
worked for it. They paid for it and they do not apologise
for that. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon
members! Order! [Interjections.]


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Mr M G P LEKOTA: House Chairperson, my dear friends and
colleagues, I think it‘s important that we must remind
each other today in this debate that a lot of research
and thought went into the drafting of the constitutional
clause that is there.

Let‘s remind each other that before 1913, there exist no
records of a large scale dispossession of the crude
nature that General Hertzog introduced in June 1913. With
the arrival of various people in this part of the world
that we call South Africa today, some from Europe, others
from the Philippines as slaves, others from Malaysia as
slaves, others from England, Germany and France as
fugitives from religious wars, arrived here between 1652
and 1913. All of those people ... [Interjections.]

No, you need to think! You must think!

In this country, people congregated and joined with each
other, and there was no title before they came. Title
became part of the process of settlement. In the course
of all of that, people of our country mixed and a large
number of a population called coloureds emerged. I don‘t


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know who coloured who. Nevertheless, even those people
... [Interjections.]

No, you must think and confront history.

People acquired title all over ... by the way, here in
the Cape, under the British and KwaZulu-Natal, under the
British, there was what was called qualified franchise.
Many of you always think there was always apartheid.
Apartheid was introduced in 1948.

Throughout, all of our people were entitled to buy and
possess land and that‘s how title became the order of the
day in South Africa. It was only in 1913, after the
National Party had won the elections when General Hertzog
introduced the 1913 Land Act and passed a law that said,
black South Africans can only be entitled to live on
eight point something per cent of the land of South
Africa.

That was followed by what Sol Plaatje deals with
systematically in native life in South Africa – on how
Africans were dispossessed. And that they tried to


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ameliorate in the Land and Trust Act, 1936, by trying to
increase the 8% to 13%. That is why when we were
negotiating at the Convention for a Democratic South
Africa, Codesa, in fact, over the years; even in prison
on Robben Island we studied this question to understand
how we could get our country out of the depth of the
danger of usual slaughter for no reason. We concluded
that the Land Act, 1913, represented a major point at
which we must say, people that owned land and still had
titles – some still have and others didn‘t have because
they had lost them, that those people must forward with
those titles and that land must be returned to them.

That is the first point. I want to make that point. This
subject is fraught with dangers if we don‘t think what we
are doing. I thank you House Chair, we need more
discussion on this question, and otherwise we are putting
our country in danger. [Time exipred.] [Applause.]

Rev K R J MESHOE: House Chair, the ACDP recognises that
South Africa has a unique history of dispossession of
land from black people by colonialists, and that because
government‘s current land reform programme has been


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fraught with difficulties since its inception, land
reform has been far too slow.

However, we disagree with the sentiment that at the
centre of the present crisis regarding the resolution of
the land question is the property clause in section 25(1)
of the Constitution, which protects private property
rights.

The property clause was debated at great length and the
drafters of our Constitution then concluded that it had
to be included in the Constitution to protect all
citizens against state abuse.

The protections in the Constitution are not there for a
select few, but for all in South Africa, who own or
aspire to own property. We should not pass legislation
because we trust ourselves to do the right thing but we
should pass legislation that will ensure that any
government to come will be constrained and held
accountable to do the right thing.


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We are concerned that the land issue is being used as a
political football by the EFF to garner support, and the
ANC, to detract from more pressing issues, such as
widespread corruption and lack of service delivery.

We also need to be mindful of what the Constitutional
Court said regarding illegal land invasions. It said, to
allow such would be a recipe for anarchy. We would
caution therefore, that to consider expropriating land
without any form of compensation would similarly be a
recipe for anarchy in the country.

The ACDP believes that we need to jointly find solutions
to the land issue — partnerships with existing
experienced and emerging farmers with the state playing a
facilitating role, is one possibility. We are in favour
of finding solutions, but believe the amendment of the
property rights clause is not that answer.

Recent calls by President Zuma and the Minister of Rural
Development and Land Reform, Gugile Nkwinti, that
government should start land expropriation without
compensation is not helpful in this regard. The


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disastrous consequences of such actions will be a
breakdown of reconciliation and national unity in our
country, and all that the late President Mandela, fought
and stood for, and would open the floodgates for land
invasions and confrontation that will unfortunately lead
to injuries, loss of life and property.

The ACDP does not support this draft resolution - we
support expropriation where necessary with compensation
as stipulated in our Constitution.

The ACDP does not want to see chaotic land invasions in
our country as a result of this expropriation that many
are talking about. We know that vast tracts of land have
been left idle, reflecting a lack of resources, skills
and capacity on the part of the new owners of land.
Commercial farmers and formal agricultural structures
have been destroyed and what used to be profitable land
has been rendered unproductive.

That is why we believe, that coming together to
rationally resolve this problem of land redistribution
would be the best way to go. Thank you.


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Mr L M NTSHAYISA: House Chairperson, land has long been a
critical and very important issue. The founding fathers
and mothers of our constitutional democracy were alive to
the prevailing anomalies of land deprivation in South
Africa, following the aftermath of the Land Act, 1913,
which reserved only 13% of the land to our people.

Franz Fanon has written on the land issue. He stated:

For a colonized people, the most essential value,
because it is the most concrete, is first and
foremost the land - the land, which will bring them
bread above all, dignity.

According to President Zuma, only 8 million hectares of
arable land have been transferred to black people, out of
82 million hectares of the land in South Africa. It is
not very much easy, therefore, to preach transformation,
interdependence, social cohesion and reconciliation when
the land is controlled by a fringe minority.

The former Deputy Chief Justice, Disang Moseneke, stated
and I quote:


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In 20 years our Court has not resolved even one case
of land expropriation under the property clause by
government for a public purpose. Similarly, at the
same time the courts have never been called upon to
give meaning to the property clause in the context
of land expropriation or to decide on what is a just
and equitable compensation.

The AIC believes that land expropriation can still be
achieved through the Constitution. We should take leaf
from Disang Moseneke, the former Deputy Chief Justice.

Land is one of the sources of wealth and it can
contribute to the growth of our economy. We, therefore,
agree with the fact that this section 25 of the
Constitution should be revisited for the purpose of
benefiting many and not for the purpose of punishing any
person because we realise that land is in the hands of
the few, which is not good. Land is a source of wealth
and it is said that the people shall share.

Without compensation does not mean that we are punishing
anyone or perhaps the people that have the land but we


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are trying to bring about what is referred to as the
radical transformation. It is therefore, through the land
that people should benefit. If most of the people are
having land, they will be in a position to contribute to
our economy.

It is for this reason that we would be in a position to
support that this land should be returned to the people.
Thank you very much. [Time expired.]

Ms T M MBABAMA: House Chair, fellow South Africans, to
the majority of our people the ownership of land is seen
as an inherent right that was violated by the apartheid
Natives Land Act of 1913. Land Turnure is inextricably
linked to an individual‘s identity, dignity and a sense
of belonging.

Millions of our people do not feel the sense of belonging
as land reform post 1994 has been an unmitigated
disaster. Land reform was supposed to address
dispossession and injustice to create more equitable
distribution of land; to reduce poverty and stimulate


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economic growth and to provide security of turnure; all
of which the ANC government has failed to achieve.

Despite the availability of a litany of legislation and
grant programmes; land reform has fallen victim to
political manipulation by the ruling ANC elites;
compounded by its own hubris and its insularity.
[Applause.] The ANC government now seeks to use the
Constitution as an excuse presenting it as a barrier to
effective land reform and thus deflecting the
responsibility for their failures.

Fellow South Africans, let us not be hoodwinks into
accepting these red herring. Small-scale farmers, labour
tenants, farmworkers, communal area residents, women and
our youth - the lost generation are the intended
beneficiaries who have been most affected by the
government‘s abysmal failure in the delivery of land
reform.

Twenty three years into this democracy, the land tenure
rights of the rural poor are still not addressed.
Security of tenure, preferably in the form of legal


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ownership, unlocks access to economic development and
real jobs for the lost generation, especially in
agriculture. Bill Clinton said:

Work is about more than making a living, as vital as
that is. It‘s fundamental to human dignity, to a
sense of self-worth, as useful, independent, free
people.

With youth unemployment so high in South Africa; do we
not then owe it to this lost generation to unlock the
immense potential in successful land reform?

Instead of tampering with an excellent Constitution a DAled government will enact legislation, secure the
property rights of those who live on state land, stateowned land reform projects and former homelands. The DA
wants our poor to own their own property. [Applause.]

They will rezone communal land areas as municipalities so
that our rural poor get the same service delivery and
support as the urban areas. Will also provide an ongoing
package of extension services, financial support


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networks, technical and managerial assistance as well as
invest in supportive infrastructure, as seen in the
Western Cape.

We will also remove the vestiges of apartheid and
colonial planning and the embedded semi-feudal systems it
engendered in the former homelands; nowhere should
paternalism obstruct progress! We will ensure that land
reform is an opportunity around which South Africans can
unite rather than a source of anxiety. Land reform can
attract massive investments to those who were
marginalised.

Fellow South Africans, section 25 of the Constitution is
not a constraint to land reform, but the very backbone of
successful land reform. The motion by the EFF to review
and amend the property clause is not supported by the DA
because we care about property rights for the poor. Thank
you. [Applause.]

IsiXhosa:
Mnu P J MNGUNI: Sihlalo weNdlu, mandikhahlele
kubaPhathiswa abakhoyo, ooSekela baPhathiswa nakumalungu


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ale Ndlu yoWiso-mthetho. Ohloniphekileyo uMbabama osuka
apha uthetha eziphikisa. Uyandiva.

English:
She understands vernacular very well.

IsiXhosa:
Uthetha eziphikisa kuba kuqala uthi esi siphakamiso seseANC aphinde ekugqibeleni athi yeye-EFF. Kuza kufuneka
ukuba athethe into ibenye ayeke ukuthetha emva
naphambili. [Uwelewele.] Obeme apha, okaMalema, ngexesha
ebendulula esi siphakamiso, uthi ...

... those who were involved in the negotiation sold out!
You really have to get close to some of the veterans and
leader who are still alive; and hear exactly what the
consultations were, the balance of forces were and what
were the discussions in the movement then. You really
have to get it clear. I remember that the burning cry at
that time was that you cannot win in the table which you
have not won in the battlefield.


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All negotiations are subject to the balance of forces in
the battlefield not as wishes some 23 years later; they
reflect that reality. One of our alliance components sat
in Cuba in its Eighth Congress in 1988 – I don‘t know if
you were there – and in characterising the South African
revolution, it was said that conditions were right for
mass insurrection, sithathe ilizwe ngezigalo [take the
land with guns.]

That was only a moment when Operation Vula was about to
be unleashed. In fact, all the infrastructures have been
established inside the country and at that point in time,
the regime gave in. It was in this or at the Old Assembly
that F W de Klerk announced the unbanning of the ANC and
all other formations, the release of Nelson Mandela and
so forth.

That defines, in the list, the context on which
negotiations actually took place. Yes, the Ultra-right
was busy bulldozing at World Trade Centre and doing all
sort of things, but the ANC led even at that moment.
Hence this dispensation in which we are right now.


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I want to dedicate my input to the memory of a fallen
white compatriot; because in tabling this motion, hon
Malema said; ―no white person can understand‖ a
visionary, a selfless revolutionary, an armed combatant,
and a communist to the end; that is none either than the
leader, Comrade Joe Slovo. [Interjections.]

Comrade Joe Slovo throughout the struggle epoch he marked
a unique calibre of white intelligentsia and white
revolutionaries. He was the Commander in Chief of
Umkhonto weSizwe. He played a pivotal role in liberating
us into this day. So, yes, among white people we have
white patriots. In fact, in 1990-91 at the talks about
talks, the white minority regime complained that the ANC
delegation may not include Joe Slovo. So, he was public
enemy number one in the system. I dedicate this
contribution to him.

Once again, a number of parties come here and debate but
they miss a fundamental point that the South African
colonial question – the South African land question is
directly related to the colonial question. In fact, just
to teach everyone it would be nice to quote from a judge


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in a recent judgement on 28 July last year. In this
judgement it states that:

To those who personally experienced forced removal,
and those who instead of inheriting the
illegitimately wrestled land, inherited the pain of
loss of homes and property. The dispossessions are
not merely colonial and apartheid era memories they
continue to be post apartheid realities which are
more so in the case of those who are yet to enjoy
the fruits of restitution or equitable redress.

Thus said Judge Madlanga supported by the entire bench at
the Constitutional Court. You should just mark, EFF
‗equitable redress.‘ Because clearly you always parade as
though you support the judiciary, the judge has spoken,
the Constitutional Court has spoken and the date was 28
July last year, when they talked about ‗equitable
redress‘. You want to introduce your own thing. May be it
is a smoke screen for all the court cases you are
appearing in for the crime that you say people must
invade land and now you want to make it to be like a
political call, it is reactionary to the core.


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Chair, we have always said that the character of the
South African society must be looked at against its own
characterisation through colonialism. We have said here
before that racism was a myth just to cover imperialism
and capitalism. We repeat the point and we challenge the
reactionary intelligentsia. Simon van der Stel would not
pass a pure race test. Simon van der Stel who on the one
side was a descendant of an Indian slave – so to speak
let‘s go to history and dispute that.

So, racism was always a myth right from the onset.
Parties must look at themselves – one party has got to
look at itself and now and again it has to assure the
public that it is not racists. All the time from among
the mist of the rank and file of that party racism always
show its ugly head all the time. So, we must uncover
racism to the racist who are flying with a smoke screen
that in fact, underlying, it is a class and even the
gender question. [Interjections.] Exactly, land takes
place in South Africa in a racialised context. There can
be nothing better than that.


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We also want to refer to gender and male domination
society and chauvinism which led to the triple operation
of the African working women. In fact, we hold - because
everyone who talks gender we think that we are talking
about the same thing - ours is a notion of revolutionary
feminism and not liberal feminism ... [Interjections.]

In fact, race, class and gender must be looked at in
balance otherwise we risk landing into workerism, we risk
landing into narrow-nationalism; we risk landing into
liberalism, we risk landing into feminism, and all sorts
of distortions.

The 1994 breakthrough is not what you want; it is what we
want because you have a farfetched motion that will never
see the light of day. That breakthrough sought to tilt
and reverse the colonial ethos of 1652, the Union of
South Africa of 1910; the Land Act of 1913 and the Group
Areas Act of 1948. No one alludes to the Group Areas Act,
and thank you to hon Shaik, because he is right, he is
referring even to the current existing dispossession
taking place in Woodstock and elsewhere. [Interjections.]


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IsiXhosa:
Yimani siza nani kakuhle ngomgca ngoku.

English:
For some reasons – listen carefully to this – why the
EFF‘s motion does not resonate and may not resonate with
the ANC; you refer to the 8% of the land – now the 8%
that you refer to as having been transferred thus far.
You do not indicate whether you are referring to
redistribution or to turnure reform or to restitution,
but you are just howling and shooting into a hill! Be
clear as to what 8% you are talking to. On restitution,
how would EFF account for those people who have opted for
financial compensation? How would you count them into the
8%?

Now, the various redistributive programme like the
Recapitalization and Development Programme, RADP, the
Proactive Land Acquisition Strategy, PLUS, and so on,
which are programmes in the redistribution of land; do
you include them in the 8% or you don‘t?


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Parliament has a clear mechanism as has been outlined by
committee Chair, Comrade Ngwenya-Mabila, clear mechanism
of a Constitution Review Committee. You abruptly jumped
and asked to give ANC 6%, is the ANC needing your 6% so
desperately? What for?

When there is Parliamentary constitution review committee
why your amendments can‘t be looked at there? In fact, I
can paraphrase for you what you want. That 25(1) of the
Constitution says:

No one may be deprived of property except in terms
of law of general application, and no law may permit
arbitrary deprivation of property.

All you want is that everyone must be deprived only
through that law. That law is forthcoming in actual fact.
We reject the EFF in its call for land invasion. The ANC
rejects the EFF‘s motion. [Applause.] Thank you.

Mr M A PLOUAMMA: Hon Chair, hon members, cowardice can be
an illness; you must heal it before it becomes chronic.
The ruling elite of today will not support this motion


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because they are cowards who are seduced by big houses
and big cars. They chair at the table of those who
benefitted from apartheid and colonialism.

Chief Sekhukhune, legendary Bhambatha and King of the
Xhosa and warriors are smiling wherever they are. Their
descendants now smell the coffee. Almost all wars fought
in South Africa were all about the land and mineral
resources. The British imperialists benefitted and still
benefit through international corporations. The AngloBoer War was all about independent and land annexation.
The negotiations that led to the union of South Africa
paved the way which the Afrikaners benefitted from,
culminating in them reaching political power in 1948.

When D F Malan and his predecessors gave monopoly of land
to Afrikaners, they never thought once about black
people. We were treated like children and worse than
animals. Now, fast-forward in 1994, our leaders settled
for scrums on the table for the sake of peace. They were
absorbed and assimilated to the civilisation of Western
Europe. In a nutshell, they were anglicised and quickly
forgot the blood and murder of kings who stood the


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ground, how Chief Sekhukhune wrote the letter to the then
Transvaal under the president Burger and British
representative to stop their aggression. They never
listened because land is everything; if you take it from
the people they are left naked, homeless and
disorientated.

Our Constitution obliges us under section 25 to treat
fairly even those who inherited land from Paul Kruger, D
F Malan and Verwoerd‘s ideology. It compels us to choose
not to go the Robert Mugabe road but to be fair and just
in our approach.

However, the reason why Agan SA supports this motion is
because in 23 years since democracy, black people are
suffering even worse than during the time of apartheid.
[Interjections.] I want to warn seriously those who think
things are normal when black people are still
dispossessed to go to the nearest river and baptise
themselves. [Laughter.] There is nothing normal; we do
not have our country; our country is still in the hands
of the descendants of those who came from Netherlands and
above all, those who came from Britain.


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This country cannot be stable and cannot have a true
democracy until black people, Africa, in particular, are
able

... We support this motion. [Time expired.]

[Applause.]

Mr L R MBINDA: Hon Chair, Baba uNkwinti, I am very
disappointed with your comrades, more especially the lady
who is chairing our Portfolio Committee on Rural
Development and Land Reform. I don‘t know what Tata ngubani lo mfo [who is this man] - Mnguni was saying
here.

IsiXhosa:
Ebesenza le nto kuthiwa kubhanka.

English:
He was not even addressing this important issue of land
question. So, I think you must just fire both of them.
[Interjections.] I don‘t think they are representing the
marginalised people of this country.


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Our current Constitution does not address the land issue
in favour of the indigenous people, the African people. I
think what we should have done in the Constitution when
everybody was rushing for negotiations - because uTata
Makwethu was very clear all the time, more especially
about the land issue.

My proposal is that we must firstly change the preamble
of the Constitution as follows: We, people of South
Africa, declare that our land and its mineral resources
were stolen or robbed from the indigenous people by the
white monopoly capital; it must therefore be returned to
its rightful owners, the indigenous people. That is what
we should have been doing. This issue would not have been
a problem.

As the PAC, we are appealing to all members of the House
from various political organisations to at least support
the repeal of section 25 of our Constitution. We all know
that our African people do not have money to pay for the
stolen land because our wealth is still in the hands of
the white monopoly capital. All the social ills that our
people are suffering from are as a result of us being


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landless. With the land in our control, we will be able
to change the lives of our people for the better for
ever.

Therefore, I must say I am disappointed because we all
know that this land that we are talking about, the ocean
as well as oxygen is a gift that was given to the
citizen, the indigenous people of this country by God.
That is why we are saying as PAC, land cannot be sold;
land cannot be bought; and it should not be treated as a
commodity but it must just be taken from those who have
stolen it from the African people.

IsiXhosa:
Ndiyabhena ndicela kananjalo ukuba iphele le ngxaki
sinayo yokuba sithi xa singcwaba izihlobob zethu kufuneka
sihlawule ama-R3000 kuMasipala OMbaxa iBaffalo City.
Ukanti xa umntu efuna ukungcwaba eCambridge kumhlaba
ophucukileyo, apho kuhlala khona abantu abamhlophe,
kufuneka ahlawule ama-R9000. Lihlazo elo kungenjalo amaAfrika aza kuzithathela wona lo umhlaba ukuba
niyalibazisa kuba aba babini ...


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English:
... they are busy contradicting their own provinces.
[Time expired.] [Applause.]

IsiXhosa:
Musani ukudlalisa ngathi apha.

Mr N T GODI: Hon House Chair, comrades and hon members,
the APC will support any measure, resolution or programme
that seeks to enhance and fast-track access to land by
the dispossessed African majority.

The message must be sent strongly and consistently that
whites cannot continue to own land in excess to their
population figures. The fact that white people, as a
social class, talk about reconciliation whilst
tenaciously clinging to wealth and land accumulated
through the criminal oppression and exploitation of the
majority indigenous Africans, means the majority is being
taken for a ride.

The fight against racism, poverty, inequality and the
restoration of the dignity and humanity of the Africans,


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find their concrete resolution in restoring land to our
people. Our people continue to live like refugees in
their own country; treated as sub-humans in the farms;
evicted; the graves of their forefathers desecrated, etc.

The APC supports this motion for no more a reason than
that the issue of land must be at the centre of our
transformation programmes and freedom. The land question
is a genuine call. The APC supports it. All Africans and
freedom-loving people of South Africa must unite to
ensure that the national grievance is addressed. I thank
you. [Applause.]

Mr T C R WALTERS: Hon Chair, I am at the moment
surprised; I think a historical event took place and that
is member Godi disagreeing with the ANC.

The DA welcomes this opportunity like, the hon Lekota, to
kick off a genuine debate as to the causes, problems and
solutions of land reform. Most of you today are actually
celebrating and welcoming this opportunity to display our
pride in a Constitution that rather than prevents us from


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achieving justice and redressing land reforms, is in fact
our most powerful tool to do exactly that.

While we do not associate with the implied solution in
this motion on Constitutional change to the challenges of
land reform, we do agree that a genuine foundational
debate about this matter has long been overdue, in this
House, amongst us as politicians and also in society at
large.

The absence of meaningful debates since 1994 provided
this ANC-led government with a choice no government
should ever have had. On the other hand it could choose
to use clause 25 of our Constitution that specifically
provides the framework for the rapid expansion of
property ownership for those excluded from it in the
past, and in the process unlock suppressed talents and
abilities of black South African, particularly the lost
generation of South Africans left behind. It could have
made that choice. It could choose to make South Africa an
economic success story where economic growth is matched
with a reduction of inequality through the use of
property ownership and a stake in that economic growth.


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Yet, there was another choice. It was a choice that gave
the organisational elite imbedded in the liberation
movement, the opportunity to insulate it from ideas and
initiatives, close itself to accountability and create a
crony system of government where delivery is not about
the people, but self-enrichment. It was an alternative
choice to use its power to attract the highest bidder, to
use every tender, every land deal and every development
to build the foundations of probably the greatest
criminal enterprise in the world today.

Fellow South Africans, the ANC made that choice. Now, as
its domination is rapidly waning and the shock of loss of
power is being felt, the governing party is doing account
for replacing the people with personal profit.
Out of ideas for the people, it has only one card to hold
on to its privileges, and that is to set up lightening
conductors to draw energy away from their historic
failure. Unfortunately, this motion is helping to set up
such a lightening conductor.

It is not clause 25 that reduces the supposed beneficiary
of land reform projects to unpaid workers without


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property rights on taxpayer‘s subsidised state farms;
farms that are milked dry by cronies of the ANC. It is,
in fact, our Constitution that will protect their right
to ownership of such land once a government dedicated to
fairness provides it to them. It is not clause 25 that
leaves the rural poor in former homelands without title
deed on the land they have farmed for generations. The
rural poor were deliberately kept in poverty to lock them
into voting for the ANC.

It is, in fact, our Constitution that will protect the
right to ownership of such land once the government
believe in freedom provides it to them. It is not clause
25 that prevented the purchase of land, readily available
on the market as any survey will show, at reasonable
prices.

It would have assisted a transforming agricultural
sector‘s stability concurrently providing much needed
jobs in a sector currently shedding jobs. It is, in fact,
our Constitution that will protect transformation in a
flourishing agricultural sector once a caring government
believing in opportunity makes land reform successful.


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It is not clause 25 that allowed extension services, the
Agricultural Research Council, suitable financing for
farmers, investment opportunities, drought, relief,
agricultural colleges, land claims and purchases of land
to fail. It is not clause 25 that fails to take workable
proposals from organised agriculture, Communal Property
Association and land reform beneficiaries on board. It is
not clause 25 that is to blame for state capture,
division in the ANC and failure at the ballot box.

Fellow South Africans, the Constitution is the very
institution that guarantees the economic freedom of those
marginalised and dispossessed who are now being blamed
for a lack of progress. For us do so, as politicians, is
like a craftsman blaming his own tools. By blaming the
Constitution ...

Afrikaans:
... en ek kan byvoeg ons legitieme beleggers in landbou,
ons boere ... [... and, may I add, our legitimate
investors in agriculture, our farmers ...]

English:


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... for the failures of this government, we are not only
playing by the rules of survival of an emerging,
gangsters state, but also risking the future of every
single South African who came into property for the first
time. The DA is the only party that genuinely wants the
poor to own property; [Interjections.] We do not want the
poor to remain poor.

The DA shows that transversal government, incorporating
all levels of government that bring all stakeholders
together can successfully empower the poor through ...
The DA stands with the Constitution. [Time expired.]
[Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: House Chair,
colleagues and comrades. Let‘s begin by agreeing with
some of what is contained in the introductory paragraphs
of the draft resolution which is being submitted by the
hon Shivambu in the name of the EFF. It is absolutely
true that South Africans have a history of brutal
dispossession of land by colonial and white minority
regimes.


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The draft resolution says ―a unique history‖; I would
suggest that we remove the word unique. Let‘s be
internationalists; because after all genocidial, colonial
projects have occurred throughout North and South
America, Australasia, Africa, and as we speak today, in
Palestine, so, let‘s be internationalists and not
narrowly be exclusivists about being South African.

It is true, as the draft resolution says that this
colonial and apartheid past has left a deep mark,
although it says an indelible mark; no, no, this mark
must be delible, it must be erasable, we need to erase it
radically through radical economic transformation.

It‘s also true, as other speakers have said from the ANC,
that the current land reform programme has been fought
with difficulties and the pace has been frustratingly
slow.

Where the draft resolution, hon Shivambu, starts to go
off the rails, is in its fifth paragraph where it tells
us that ―at the centre of the present crisis regarding
the land question is section 25(1) of the Constitution.‖


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I‘m not sure, hon Shivambu, why you singled out clause 1
of section 25, which reads ―no one may be deprived of
property except in terms of law of general application
and no law may permit arbitrary depravation of property.‖
The reason why this is the very first clause inserted by
those of us who were involved in the negotiations at
Convention for a Democratic South Africa, CODESA, in
section 25 of the property clause is precisely because of
the brutal colonial and apartheid era arbitrary
depravation of land, property and livelihoods; never
again shall we allow arbitrary depravation in this
country, it must never be allowed again. [Applause.]

However, what clause 25 of the Constitution is not saying
is that existing property relations are sacrosanct and
must be left untouched, on the contrary. Firstly, section
25 calls for security of tenure of ownership in cases
where the apartheid past has left millions of South
Africans with insecure tenure or no tenure. Women in
areas of land tenure, for instance, with insecure
property rights, that‘s very important.


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Secondly, section 25 empowers expropriation in the public
interest and it defines public interest as including the
nation‘s commitment to land reform and to reforms to
bring about equitable access to all, all, South Africa‘s
natural resources: water, minerals, etc, and it adds,
property is not just limited to the land, unlike what the
DA has tried to change the Constitution into meaning.

Under sub-clause 5 of the property clause, the
Constitution says the state must - not may, should
consider, should think about – the must take reasonable
legislative and other measures to foster conditions which
enable citizens to gain access to land on an equitable
basis. And under sub-clause 8 of the property clause, the
Constitution declares: no provision of this section may
impede the state from taking legislative and other
measures to achieve land, water and related reform in
order to redress the results of past racial
discrimination.

In short, it is absolutely misguided to treat the
property clause in the Constitution as an albatross
around our necks. As a best and necessary concession that


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was made in a difficult balance of forces during the
negotiated settlement in the 1990s.

I agree, therefore, with former Deputy Chief Justice
Dikgang Moseneke, that clause 25 is in fact radical in
both spirit and in its letter. And I further concur with
the Judge that it is misguided to blame clause 25 for the
weaknesses in land reform. As Judge Moseneke has said,
government has so far failed to test the radical
transformational reach of the idea of compensation for
expropriation being based on the just and equitable
principle; not based primarily or exclusively on the
basis of market value.

Let‘s remind ourselves, section 25 says explicitly that
the determination of just and equitable must reflect an
equitable balance between the public interest and those
affected by expropriation, having regard to all relevant
circumstances including the current use of the property,
is he an absentee landlord, that should certainly affect
how we appropriate; if we expropriate, how we reflect on
compensation.


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The history of the acquisition and use of the property.
As a result of group areas removals, that should surely
impact upon whatever compensation is made; the market
value, yes it‘s there but it‘s not prime among equals and
the extent of direct state investment etc.

Where expropriation of poor communities occurs, perhaps
to build a dam, the just and equitable principle which
surely suggests compensation far in excess of market
value; contrary wise, there will be cases where the
history of acquisition of the property, for instance, or
its current use, will require compensation considerably
below market value. Indeed, there‘s no reason why
compensation might be just symbolic to rand in order to
meet the requirements and let the courts decide if that
is just, fair and equitable.

The EFF radically misreads the Constitution and thus
falls into the trap that is historically been laid by the
DA and its hangers-on. Now, I‘m very pleased to see that
there‘s a recalibration of the DA‘s stance because I
think they are realising there opposition to the
Expropriation Bill in this House has created the


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conditions for opportunism. There have been enough
dispossessions in our country, let‘s not allow the DA and
its hangers-on to dispossess us of the spirit and literal
meaning of the hard-won 1996 Constitution.

I‘ve heard the DA leader, not currently and I‘m pleased
to hear the hon Lotriet and others being more sensible;
but a DA leader, Leader of the Opposition in this House,
not so long ago stood up and said – not the current one –
the willing seller willing buyer approach is entrenched
in the Constitution, utter poppycock.

Premier Hellen Zille said that the DA‘s strategy was to
split the ANC into the constitutionalists, who believe in
the rule of law, and the radicals, who support national
democratic revolution. We are radicals, we support
national democratic revolution and we are
constitutionalists and we believe in the rule of law.
[Applause.] The Constitution is not a 19th century
liberal document.

In introducing this draft resolution, the hon Shivambu is
making an innocent but I would like to believe misguided


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assumption. Let‘s pretend for a moment, let‘s assume that
we amend the Constitution to allow expropriation without
compensation, who is it that will then drive land
expropriation without compensation? Perhaps the EFF will
be the ruling party, let‘s pretend that might happen; and
perhaps a Thomas Sankara or Che Guevara will emerge from
their ranks; an honourable politician, perhaps that might
happen; perhaps they will be ruling in coalition with
other partners and perhaps those coalition partners will
support the Thomas Sankara of the future in the EFF to
lead the process of land reform without compensation. But
we need ... there‘s many perhaps‘ and many ifs and buts
in that, we need to make laws and we need to defend the
Constitution not based on perhaps or if, but what will
work for all seasons.

What if instead of a Thomas Sankara, we get a parasitic
emerging elite linked to a future government pursuing
private accumulation? Imagine how in the name of public
interest piles of expropriation without restraint and
compensation will be exploited? And we know exactly what
will happen, because we just need to look across the
Limpopo to see who are the main victims when this happens


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the same black majority who have been oppressed in the
past: farm workers, the urban and rural poor, with
chronic food shortages and skyrocketing food prices as a
small connected elite cease land in the name of the
public interest. So, be careful what you wish for, I say
to my colleagues across there on the EFF.

Much of this debate but not all of it because I‘m pleased
to hear that some of the speakers have also recognised
that when we talk about the land question, we are not
talking only about rural and farming issues; yes,
critically we‘re talking about those; nor are we talking
about a magical return to pre 1652 or even pre 1913. What
do we mean when we say let‘s return the land to the
indigenous people? What message are we sending to the
millions of South Africans who are descendents of those
who came not as white colonialists in this country but
came as slaves or indentured labourers? We must be very
careful of having a narrow Africanism; of course the
exploitation and brutal expropriation of the African
majority and indigenous majority is something very
important but let‘s broaden the horizon.


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Well over 60% of South Africans are now urbanised; the
land issue is now predominantly an urban question and nor
should we imagine that systematic mass scale
dispossession occurred only in the distant colonial and
the relatively apartheid past.

As we speak now, massive dispossession of poor black
communities is actively happening, driven by the market,
property speculators, corrupt court officials and estate
agents, and by the crisis of indebtedness of the working
poor and lower middle classes. The scale of home
repossessions by the banks, some are 100 000 every year,
is approaching apartheid era group area removal
proportions.

As we speak now, as one former speaker mentioned, ―down
the road in Woodstock or up in the Bo-Kaap, communities
are being disposed in the name of development‖ by
speculative property market activities aided and bettered
by the city officials and city politicians. [Applause.]

On the Cape Flats, in Phillipi, small farmers have
temporarily won a reprieve from being dispossessed so


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that a shopping mall and a privately-run prison can be
developed, driven by the Mayor of City of Cape Town,
regardless of the environmental considerations and
regardless of sustainable livelihoods for [inaudible.];
so much for defending property rights of the poor, DA.

The democratic state needs expropriating powers, it needs
to be able to drive rural and land reform, mixed income,
medium density, human settlements, all of this is
captured admirably in the Constitution and especially
within section 25. [Time expired.]

We don‘t need to change the Constitution, we need to
implement it. [Applause.]

Mr J S MALEMA: Chair, the EFF has succeeded in exposing
the hypocrisy of the ANC to the South African population
... [Interjections.] ... but you are not honourable
enough to stick to your own ways.

Your president spoke about expropriation; you came here
and contradicted him. Some of your colleagues spoke about
expropriation; you came here and contradicted them. When


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the last speaker spoke here, one of the Ministers was
actually encouraging me to listen. Because that‘s what
you do. You listen to white messiahs. Because on your own
you can‘t do ... [Interjections.] On your own you can‘t
think ... [Interjections.] ... and it is the white
messiahs who have put us in this crisis. The same Joe
Slovo that you praise is the one that came with sunset
clauses that demanded huge compromises. The African
majority are suffering today because he was defending
white property ownership.

So we want to put it very clearly that we made available
to the ANC to implement exactly what the President said
he wants to do, and the ANC rejected it. [Interjections.]

Because you never mean anything you say. You stand up and
say you fight corruption, yet you bring corruption right
into Parliament in the name of Brian Molefe.
[Interjections.] Those are the things you are known for.
You say this and do the opposite.

Today, the entire country has seen you for who you are.
You bring people here who have no clarity of what we are


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speaking about, except the last speaker who attempted but
just stuck to re-reading the Constitution!

Hon Mnguni comes here and speaks about feminism when we
are speaking about land. He says revolutionary feminism,
liberal feminism ... Hey! What is he talking about? And
then he says, Malema you must sit with the veterans of
the struggle. I might appear young to you, but, for your
information, I‘ve sat with a lot of struggle veterans. I
even stayed in their houses, more than you.

Because, by just speaking here, it is clear that you are
just a backbencher from a branch who found himself in
this House by accident. [Interjections.] You don‘t
understand national issues. You must return to your
branch so that you can continue counting membership
forms. Issues here are beyond you capacity. You must
still go through the structures so that you develop
national consciousness, so that tomorrow, when you come
here, you can reflect the national status of issues and
not some short-sighted talking about things that you
don‘t have clarity on.


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So, as the EFF, we want to say that radical economic
transformation is just rhetoric. You are not going to
implement it.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, your
time has expired.

Mr J S MALEMA: You don‘t mean it. Zuma says it because he
wants to re-position himself so that he can have some
legacy.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, your
time has expired.

Mr J S MALEMA: He will known as the most useless
President who has never meant anything ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Malema, your
time has expired! Will you take your seat now, please.

Mr J S MALEMA: ... that came out of his mouth. He just
blows hot about radical economic transformation.
[Applause.]


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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon
members! Order!

Debate concluded.

Question put: That the motion moved by Mr N F Shivambu be
agreed to.

Division demanded.

The House divided.

[TAKE IN FROM MINUTES.]

Question not agreed to.

Motion accordingly negatived.

UNPARLIAMENTARY LANGUAGE

(Ruling)


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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members,
order!

On Tuesday, 21 February 2017, the Minister of
Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries responded in isiXhosa
to a statement on the killing of farmers. The translation
of his response is as follows, and I quote:

Human dignity in farms must be equal and there is
no-one in this department who thinks killing of
farmers is normal. Killing of farmers and
farmworkers is a bad practice because killing is the
same, and it is painful to all families. Let us
change when we look at these things and stop
discrimination. We will get respect in the farms if
farmers can treat their workers in a good manner and
that will make peace.

Thereafter, the hon Chief Whip of the Opposition rose on
a point of order and requested to address me in terms of
Rule 85, and said, and I quote:


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There have been several rulings in this House that
one may not impute that another Member of this House
is racist.

He indicated that the hon Minister‘s response indicate
that what the hon Steyn was doing in the House was
racist.

I indicated, and the hon Chief Whip also requested me, to
look at Hansard and, if necessary, return to the House
with a considered ruling.

Having read the Unrevised Hansard, I now rule as follows:

The remarks made by the Minister of Agriculture, Forestry
and Fisheries were not in contravention of the Rules, as
he did not refer to the hon Steyn or any other Member of
the House as racist, as alleged by the hon Chief Whip of
the Opposition. His remarks were general in nature and
are therefore not unparliamentary.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: House Chairperson ...


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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Yes, hon member?

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: House Chairperson,
thank you very much for the ruling. We accept the ruling
wholeheartedly.

But, I do believe we have a problem with the interpreting
service that is being offered. I would ask that the
presiding officers do take this up to ensure that the
simultaneous interpretation that we are getting is an
accurate reflection of what members on the floor are
saying.

Because, I have no doubt that, if you had examined the
interpretation that was coming through, you would have
reached a different conclusion.

But, we respect your ruling, and accept it.

THE PASSING OF JUDGE ESSA MOOSA, AN ANTI-APARTHEID
ACTIVIST AND HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER

(Draft Resolution)


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The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chair, we
move without notice:

That the House —

(1) notes with sadness the passing of Judge Essa
Moosa, an anti-apartheid activist and human
rights lawyer, who passed on Sunday, 26 February
2017 after a short illness;

(2) also recalls that Judge Essa Moosa was a
qualified lawyer and was admitted to practice by
High Court of the Supreme Court of South Africa
on 1 June 1962;

(3) further recalls that, Judge Moosa was a founding
and executive member of the National Association
of the Democratic Lawyers and chaired its human
rights committee;

(4) remembers him as a champion for all those who
depended on a just and fair legal system;


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(5) further remembers him as a warrior who fought
tirelessly for the legal presets that we have
come to cherish as South Africans;

(6) recalls that in April 1998, he was appointed by
President Nelson Mandela, as the Judge of the
High Court of the Supreme Court of South Africa;

(7) further recalls that he retired as a Judge of the
Western Cape High Court in 2011 and in 2013, he
was appointed head of a unit that will
investigate complains against members of the
Directorate for Priority Crimes Investigations,
better known as the Hawks;

(8) believes that Judge Moosa‘s death is an enormous
loss to the people of South Africa; and

(9) conveys our condolences to the Judge Moosa‘s
family and friends during this painful time. I
thank you.

14 PEOPLE DIED IN A SHACK FIRE IN WARD 93 IN KHAYELITSHA


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(Draft Resolution)

Ms T GQADA: Chair, I hereby move on behalf of the DA
without notice:

That the House —

(1) notes that on Friday, 17 February 2017, 14 people
from ward 93 in Khayelitsha sadly passed away in
a shack fire in the early hours of the morning;

(2) also notes that the deceased includes an adult
male and female, as well as two young children;

(3) further notes that a 23-year-old boy was lucky to
survive the ordeal and is now in the care of the
relatives;

(4) acknowledges that the fire was allegedly caused
by a faulty Eskom box;


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(5) further acknowledges that many families from
through out South Africa go through the same
ordeal on a regular basis;

(6) thanks the community of Khayelitsha and
representative from the City of Cape Town, who
have shown an immense amount of support to the
family in various different forms over this
difficult period; and

(7) conveys our sincere condolences to the family and
friends of the deceased. I thank you.

THABO MBEKI INAUGURATED AS NEW UNISA CHANCELLOR

(Draft Resolution)

Ms H O HLOPHE: House Chair, I rise on behalf of the EFF
to move without notice:

That the House -


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(1) notes that yesterday, 27 February 2017, former
President, Thabo Mbeki was inaugurated as a
chancellor of the University of South Africa;

(2) further notes that President Mbeki remains one of
the very few statesman in Africa who encompass
incredible educational history and these are the
necessary ingredients in not only occupying the
office of a chancellor, but in instilling a
respectable reputation in academia and in Unisa,
South Africa and Africa at large;

(3) acknowledges that the dimensioning reputation of
academia in society should be restored and indeed
key challenges of curriculum and institutional
transformation together with access and success
as it relates to the poor and an African child
should remain a priority;

(4) further acknowledges that former President Thabo
Mbeki will preside over Unisa as a chancellor
with the support of the EFF;


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(5) believes vehemently that the office of the
chancellor in academia will now have a societal
influence that has never been witnessed before in
our country;

(6) also wishes that former President of South Africa
preside over this prestigious office with his
inherent leadership qualities with grace and
success until the free education for all comes;
and

(7) congratulates the former President on this
milestone in his long and illustrious career.

AWARD-WINNING LOCAL SCI-FI SHORT FILM, TEARS IN THE RAIN

(Draft Resolution)

Mr D M GUMEDE: The ANC moves without notice:

That the House –


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(1) notes that the short film, Tears in Rain, which
was locally made, has picked up one of the major
awards from the sci-fi Underground Film festival,
which took place in Munich recently;

(2) further notes that this 11 minutes film received
the best acting award for the two cast members
that are Sean Cameron Michael and Russel
Savadier;

(3) understands that this film was produced on a
minuscule budget of only R20 000 and was filmed
in South Africa in just two days;

(4) further understands that Tears in the rain has
been entered in a number of film festivals
including the Jozi Film Festival, the London
independent Awards, the Boston Sci-fi Film
Festival, the Philip K. Dick Science Fiction Film
Festival, and the Los Angeles Film Festival; and

(5) congratulates, Harvey and Andrew Eric McDonald
for making a brilliant film that has put South


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Africa on the world map in this field once again.
Thank you.

FLOODS DROWNING VICTIMS OF MAKGOBISTAD VILLAGE IN NORTH
WEST PROVINCE

(Draft Resolution)

Mr N SINGH: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move on behalf the
IFP without notice:

That the House –

(1) extends its deepest condolences to the families
and friends of the three drowned victims who lost
their lives in the recent flash floods in the
North West;

(2) further notes that a primary school boy was
amongst the victims who drowned whilst trying to
cross the stream near Makgobistad village and
that the other two victims were in the vehicle
that was swept away by torrential flooding;


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(3) further acknowledges that the floods affected a
wide area within the North West province leaving
many people without adequate shelter; and

(4) calls upon government to urgently intervene in
this regard in order to bring much needed comfort
and support to the families of the deceased and
disaster relief aid to the rest of the people in
the affected areas.

BRUTAL MURDER OF FOUR MZILA FAMILY MEMBERS IN UMLAZI

(Draft Resolution)

Prof N M KHUBISA: on behalf of the NFP I move without
notice:

That the House –

(1) notes that four members of the Mzila family
living in Umlazi namely: Ms Sibongile Mzila, Ms
Zithulele Mzila, Ms Hlengiwe Mzila, and Mr
Lungisani Mzila were brutally murdered in the


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early hours of Saturday morning, 25 February
2017;

(2) further notes that eight people were also shot at
a tavern by the same armed suspects prior to the
murders taking place;

(3) also notes that the police who responded to a
call from community members shot dead one of the
perpetrators while he was trying to escape after
raping the youngest of the Mzila daughters and
living her physically and emotionally brutalised
and traumatised; and

(4) finally, notes that two other accomplices are
still at large and members of the community had
come forward to identify at least one the
perpetrators and we therefore call upon this hon
House to express its condolences to the Mzila
family, who lost loved once in this brutal and
senseless act of murder and commend the community
members of Umlazi, who have since came to the
assistance of the police in identifying one of


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the suspects and also call upon the Saps to
intensify their efforts in bringing the
perpetrators of this heinous killing and robbing
spree to face the might of the law.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Just a reminder, I
have been given extra seconds to everybody and it is one
and a half minute. Please, check your time.

AB DE VILLIERS SCORING 9000 ONE DAY INTERNATIONAL RUNS

(Draft Resolution)

Ms M C C PILANE-MAJAKE: House Chairperson, I hereby move
without notice:

That the House –

(1) notes that AB de Villiers became the fastest man
to score 9000 one day international runs, as he
led his side to a 159-run victory over New
Zealand in the third one-day international at


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Westpac Stadium in Wellington on Saturday, 25
February 2017;

(2) further notes that De Villiers scored 85 having
needed just five runs to surpass former India
captain Sourav Ganguly, who took 228 innings to
achieve the milestone;

(3) recalls that De Villiers did it in his 205th
innings;

(4) understands that South Africa scored a credible
271- 8 in their 50 overs and then their pace
bowlers ripped the top off the hosts batting to
reduce them to 58 for six in the 20th over before
bowling them out for 112 in 32,2 overs;

(5) acknowledges that the victory gave de Villiers‘
team a 2-1 lead in the five-match series with the
fourth game in Hamilton on Wednesday;

(6) further acknowledges that de Villiers had again
held his side‘s innings together with a composed


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knock and was only dismissed in the final over
when he failed to get underneath a Trent Boult
full toss and was caught on the boundary;

(7) congratulates the skipper, AB de Villiers on
reaching this wonderful landmark in cricket; and

(8) further congratulates the entire cricket team for
such a splendid victory against New Zealand.

Agreed to.

THREE PRIMARY SCHOOL GIRLS FOUND DEAD IN A TRENCH
PREPARED FOR WATER PIPES IN MTHATHA, KWAPAYNE FARM
VILLAGES

(Draft Resolution)

Ms C N MAJEKE: House Chairperson, I hereby move without
notice:

That the House -


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(1) notes with sadness that on Friday, 24 February,
three primary school girls who were best friends
and neighbours were found dead in a trench
prepared for water pipes in Mthatha, kwaPayne
farm villages;

(2) further notes that Esethu Madondile, 10 years old
was in Grade 4, and Lindokuhle Singata was also
10 years of age was in Grade 6 in the Dalubuhle
Junior Secondary School; and the other girl,
Sinazo Mbeshu, was 11 years old and was in Grade
5 at Upper Zimbane Junior Secondary School;

(3) recalls that in 2014, these three girls were
raped by a 42-year-old man who was said to have
psychiatric ailments and sentenced to life in
prison;

(4) commends the village traditional leader Bishop
Vuyisile Plaatjies for assisting the families to
discover the bodies of their children;


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(5) further commends a police driver who heard about
the incident over the police radio and rushed to
the scene to help;

(6) calls for the local authorities to investigate
the cause of the incident; and

(7) express our condolences to the members of the
three families, and the schools who lost their
loved ones at a very tender age.

Agreed to.

SOUTH AFRICA PRODUCED TWO NEW WORLD CHAMPIONS AT THE
RECENT WORLD SHEEP SHEARING AND WOOL HANDLING
CHAMPIONSHIP

(Draft Resolution)

Ms A STEYN: House Chairperson, I hereby move without
notice:

That the House -


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(1) notes that South Africa produced two new World
Champions at the recent World Sheep Shearing and
Wool Handling Championship which was held in
Invercargill, New Zealand;

(2) further notes that Mayanzeke Shweni and Bangani
Joel achieved massive victories over their rivals
at the competition and kept the South African
flag flying high;

(3) acknowledges that the 44-year-old Shweni, from
Sterkspruit, won the Southland All Nations and
World Championships title in the blade-shearing
division;

(4) further acknowledges that the 50-year-old Joel,
also from

(5) Sterkspruit, was fourth in the same two
competitions;


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(6) recognises that the pair then teamed up and as a
duo, won the global title in the blade-shearing
division against teams from 31 nations; and

(7) congratulates the duo on this remarkable
achievement and wishes them well in their future
endeavours.

Agreed to.

THIRTY NINTH ANNIVERSARY OF MANGALISO ROBERT SOBUKWE

(Draft Resolution)

Mr T RAWULA: House Chairperson, I hereby move without
notice:

That the House —

(1) notes that yesterday, 27 February, marked 39
years since the death that colossal figure of our
liberation struggle, Mangaliso Robert Sobukwe,
the founding president of the Pan Africanist


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Congress, and a former member of the ANC Youth
League generation that redefined the nature of
our struggle;

(2) further notes that Sobukwe, always believing that
leaders must lead from the front, and that
leaders should never expect ordinary people to do
what leaders themselves were not prepared to do,
got arrested for leading the anti-pass campaign
from the front;

(3) acknowledges that the white minority regime at
the time was so terrified of him that Parliament
passed a special amendment to the law, the so
called Sobukwe Clause, to keep him in jail
indefinitely;

(4) further acknowledges that despite these tough
conditions on his life, Sobukwe never once
betrayed the cause for which he had dedicated his
life. When he was released and banned to
Kimberly, he continued to dedicate his life to


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the people, often representing poor people in
Kimberly for free in court;

(5) further notes that many attempts have been made
by many, now and in

past, to erase Sobukwe‘ s

contribution to our liberation struggle, but his
ideas about the land constituting the cardinal
pillar of decolonisation will stay with us
forever; and

(6) calls for the recognition of the role Sobukwe
played; and

(7) extends its greatest appreciation to his still
living widow, Mam Zodwa Sobukwe and Mandla
Sobukwe.

Agreed to.

APPOINTMENT OF ADVOCATE JEREMIAH MERABE AND MR DUNCAN
HANDLE IN THE UMALUSI COUNCIL

(Draft Resolution)


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Mr D M GUMEDE: House Chairperson, I hereby move without
notice:

That the House —

(1) welcomes the appointment of Advocate Jeremiah
Merabe and Mr Duncan Hindle to the vacant
positions in the Umalusi Council on Wednesday, 22
February 2017;

(2) believes that both Advocate Merabe and Mr Hindle
bring wealth of experience and vast knowledge and
experience to the Council having served for many
years on different levels within the education
sector;

(3) understands that Advocate Merabe has served as
Director: Legal and Auxiliary Services for more
than eight years at the Free State Department of
Education;


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(4) further understands that Mr Duncan Hindle‘s
impressive work history spans more than 40 years
in the public sector and had previously served
for five years as the Director-General in the
Department of Basic Education;

(5) believes that given their vast experience the two
appointees will definitely bring a whole new
dimension to the discussions at Council meetings
and add significant value by enriching the
fiduciary work of the Council; and

(6) congratulates Advocate Merabe and Mr Duncan
Hindle on their recent appointment.

Agreed to.

TEN PEOPLE DIED IN A HEAD ON COLLISION BETWEEN A MINIBUS
TAXI AND A TRUCK

(Draft Resolution)


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Mr S M RALEGOMA: House Chairperson, I hereby move without
notice:

That the House —

(1) notes with sadness the death of 10 people who
were killed when a minibus taxi and a truck
collided head-on on the old Middelburg road
heading towards Witbank near Middelburg in
Mpumalanga, on Sunday, 26 February 2017;

(2) further notes that 10 people were found inside
the taxi with fatal injuries;

(3) understands that a 22 year old woman was found in
the front of the taxi with serious injuries and
she was the only survivor in the taxi;

(4) further understands that the driver of the truck
sustained minor injuries and was treated on the
scene before being transported to the nearest
hospital;


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(5) calls for local authorities to investigate the
cause of the accident; and

(6) conveys its condolences to the family of the
deceased and wishes the survivor of the accident
a speedy recovery.

Agreed to.

AIRPORT COMPANY SOUTH AFRICA RANKED AMONGST THE TEN MOST
PUNCTUAL AIRPORTS IN THE WORLD

(Draft Resolution)

Ms M C C PILANE-MAJAKE: House Chairperson, I hereby move
without notice:

That the House —

(1) notes that Airport Company South Africa, ACSA,
has been ranked amongst the ten most punctual
airports in the world;


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(2) further notes that the list was revealed by the
OAG Aviation Worldwide, a United Kingdom-based
agency which monitors on time performance amongst
airlines and airports globally;

(3) acknowledges that the OR Tambo International
Airport achieved eighth place in the large
airports category, the Cape Town International
Airport is ranked sixth in the medium airports
category while the King Shaka International
Airport was ranked tenth in the small airports
category;

(4) believes that ACSA‘s achievement, amongst others,
is attributed to its world class state of the art
Airport Management Centre which is the nerve
centre of the airports operations; and

(5) congratulates ACSA on their latest achievement.

Agreed to.

AFROPHIBIC VIOLENCE IN TSHWANE ON THE RISE


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(Draft Resolution)

Mr R L MBINDA: House Chairperson, I hereby move without
notice:

That the House —

(1) notes that the level of violence in Tshwane
against our fellow African brothers and sisters
is rising on a daily basis;

(2) also notes that our lip service is evidently not
enough to the situation;

(3) further notes that as a nation we have a
political obligation to return a favour to our
fellow African bothers and sisters who during our
dark days housed, fed and trained us at their
cost so that we come back home and fight the
apartheid forces;

(4) calls on the security forces of the republic to
put more iron on the fist when dealing with the


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perpetrators of these barbaric acts that are
anti-Africanism; and

(5) as leadership we must be seen to be publicitly
condemning these acts and play our part in
ensuring that our people understands that Africa
is for Africans and these boarders were part of
colonising us as the African people.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Mbinda,
unfortunately I cannot put the question because that
motion was not circulated. There are processes on how we
deal with motions without notice. Thank you very much.

MINISTERS URGED TO EXTEND FURTHER FUNDING TO THE BLUE
FLAG AWARDS
(Draft Resolution)

Mr Z T HADEBE: House Chairperson, I hereby move without
notice:

That the House —


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(1) notes that towards the end of 2016, Blue Flag
awards were presented to beaches in KwaZulu-Natal
at a function in Southbroom on the south coast of
KwaZulu-Natal;

(2) also notes that the Minister of Tourism and the
CEO of Wildlife and Environmental Society of
South Africa, WESSA, Dr Thommie Burger, presented
the awards;

(3) further notes that eThekwini Municipality was
awarded full Blue Flag status for uShaka and
Westbrook beaches;

(4) recognises that six Pilot Blue Flags were awarded
to the uMgababa, Amanzimtoti, Brighton, uMhlanga
main, uMdloti main and uMdloti tidal pool
beaches;

(5) acknowledges that there are 49 countries in the
world who belong to the Blue Flag program, and
that there are 4250 Blue Flag sites globally;


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(6) also acknowledges that we have been part of the
Blue Flag programme in South Africa for 16 years,
and South Beach in Durban was our first Blue Flag
beach;

(7) further acknowledges that the awarding of Blue
Flag status to beaches in South Africa plays a
major role in attracting both domestic and
foreign tourists to our shores, which is vital
for job creation for the lost generation;

(8) pays tribute to Cllr Geoff Pullan, a long-time
Blue Flag champion in the eThekwini municipality
who has relentlessly pursued the goal of Blue
Flag status, despite the opposition of the
previous city manager, Mike Sutcliffe, who
advocated Brown Flag status for the beaches in
eThekwini; and

(9) encourages Ministers of Cooperative Governance
and Traditional Affairs and Tourism to extend
further funding to this vital programme in the


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interest of showcasing our beaches and promoting
job creation in the tourism industry.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): That was longest
in the seconds that I have been granting, but I grant it.

Agreed to.

ESKOM HAS BEEN AWARDED THE 2017 TECHNOLOGY TRANSFER AWARD

(Draft Resolution)

Mr S M RALEGOMA: House Chairperson, I move without
notice:

That the House —

(1) notes that Eskom has been awarded the 2017
Technology Transfer Award by US based Electric
Power Research Institute in Pretoria;


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(2) further notes that this prestigious award is in
recognition of research the power firm conducted
in shaping the future of electricity;

(3) believes that this award testifies to the groundbreaking research conducted by Eskom‘s Research
and Development team, which continues to create
unique opportunities for the future of
electricity;

(4) acknowledges that the entity has prioritised
research activities under the Eskom Power Plant
Engineering Institute programme, which has
produced over 100 graduates at MSc and PhD level
since its inception in 2012;

(5) understands that each year, Electric Power
Research Institute Awards recognises industry
leaders and innovators at the vanguard of
adopting new technology and spearheading the
application of research findings; and


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(6) congratulates Eskom on receiving this prestigious
technology award.

Agreed to.

GOOD MATRIC PASS RATE IN THE FREE STATE PROVINCE

(Member‘s Statement)

Mr M L D NTOMBELA (ANC): Hon Chairperson, the ANC
congratulates the Free State province for having set a
new national record with their matric results and
reclaiming its number one spot which it held three years
ago. It set a new national record of a 93,2% pass rate in
2016. The Free State was the only province that broke the
90% threshold. It achieved an increase of 5,5% from the
87,7% the province achieved in 2015.

Quoting Dikgang Matamane, the Provincial Chairperson of
Congress of South African Students, Cosas, in the Free
State, where he stated:


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We are impressed with the strides made by some of
the schools and learners drawn from the previously
disadvantaged schools who continue to do better in
critical learning areas such as maths, physical
science and accounting in spite of their severe
challenges of geographical location such as the
rural areas.

I thank you.

KENTUCKEY FRIED CHICKEN FOR MEC VISIT TO PRISONERS

(Member‘s Statement)

Mr M H REDELINGHUYS (DA): Hon Chairperson, the Gauteng
Community Safety MEC Sizakele Nkosi-Malobane has
certainly turned the ANC‘s depraved flirtation with
criminals and convicts into a finger licking love affair
as she dished out KFC at Leeuwkop Prison recently.

According to the MEC herself many of the more than 900
inmates who lined up for their streetwise two have been
convicted of raping women and children.


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In the face of public criticism, the MEC shamelessly
retorted and said, ―It is only two pieces of KFC,
really...‖. Yes, really! It is two pieces of KFC that
most South Africans - and most victims of heinous crimes
like rape - cannot afford, and are unlikely to ever
enjoy.

The R32,00 price tag per head may seem insignificant to
the MEC, but that is more than 10% than the monthly child
grant, and a child grant recipient must stretch that out
over 12 days. You cannot even buy two pieces of KFC with
the R20,00 child grant increase announced by the Finance
Minister last week.

Rehabilitation and reintegration programmes are
important, and necessary, but these noble aims are not
achieved by showering convicts with gifts.

Instead, the inmates should have prepared lunch for the
visiting stakeholders - a service itself disrupted by the
MEC‘s visit - truly giving back to the community in a
cost-effective manner.


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Unfortunately the ANC cares more about KFC for comrades,
cronies and convicts than the plight of the most
vulnerable in society and the survivors and victims of
crime. Thank you. [Applause.]

GOVERNMENT LACK OF EMPATHY AND DESREGARD FOR WELLBEING OF
OTHERS

(Member‘s Statement)

Ms M O MOKAUSE (EFF): Hon House Chair, government‘s lack
of empathy and complete disregard for the wellbeing of
others is what has come to characterise the ANC
government in the Northern Cape under the leadership of
Silvia Lucas. The R31 road which links Kuruman and the
city has been closed due to heavy storms. There is a
sinkhole not far from the road, which prevents the road
users from driving into the road.

Since January the road has been closed, with no formal
communication to road users, taxi owners and business
communities of Danielskuil, Finsch, PPC Lime and Kuruman.
Taxi owners and other road users are affected severely


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because they have to travel via Postmasburg to get to
Kimberley and back. This is about 150 kilometres more
than the usual distance.

Government is silent about the road closer whilst our
community continues to incur additional costs. This has
not only affected business, but poor people of these
areas who are unable to fund their trips to get to the
city, for many other reasons including accessing tertiary
hospitals and better health care institutions.

We call on the Minister of Transport who is also from
that province, to intervene and make sure that there is a
detour road between the road of Danielskuil and Kuruman.
Thank you.

INCENTIVE SCHEME CREATE JOBS

(Member‘s Statement)

Mr N J J VAN R KOORNHOF (ANC): Hon Chairperson, the ANC
welcomes the creation of over 30 000 jobs that have been
created by the Business Process Services Incentive Scheme


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since its inception. The objective of this scheme is to
create employment opportunities, particularly for the
young people of South Africa, through the servicing
offshore activities. Forty three companies have been
supported by the Department of Trade and Industry through
this incentive. About 86% of the jobs are for the youth.

Conduent, formerly Xerox, one of the largest business
process services companies in the world, was funded by
the DTI for more than R10 million in a project that will
create 1 600 jobs over the next five years. Recently the
portfolio committee visited the offices to assess how the
funds that the department allocates are making an impact
and how the incentives are applied.

This services industry which has been identified by the
government through Industrial Policy Action Plan, Ipap,
as one of the country‘s key job drivers, has been growing
at an average rate of 26%. Thailand employs 1,5 million
agents in this industry, we, only 30 000, but there is an
apatite for South Africa. Many companies want to relocate
to South Africa. We can create a massive service industry
and create more jobs. Let us do it. [Applause.]


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DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT TO BRIEF STANDING
COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS

(Member‘s Statement)

Mr M HLENGWA (IFP): Hon Chairperson, this morning the
Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa, was suppose
to receive a briefing from the Minister of Social
Development and the chief executive officer, CEO, SA
Social Service Agency, Sassa, none of them were to be
found. The CEO is on a suspicious sick leave.

Now, Sassa is yet again pursuing to enter into a contract
with the bunch of crooks that Cash Paymaster Services,
CPS, is. As we all know that through their illegal
deductions, they have become agents of thievery, stealing
from the poor.

We are now 30 days before the end of the deadline and
there is no plan on how the social grants will be paid
out effective on 1 April. The Constitutional Court found
out that the CPS contract was invalid and now through
some sneaky backdoor tactics and a default legal


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technicality, CPS is being brought back with the
negotiations that are set to start tomorrow.

The Minister is conspicuous by her absence in dealing
with this matter, but actively visible in campaigning in
the ANC. We are teetering on the brink of a crisis and in
all of this is the process of the poor who are faced with
uncertainty and who are found wanting in the absence of
leadership. It is now clearer than ever before that this
country began its journey to the grave, in 2007 at
Polokwane.

There is an absence of leadership and the Minister is
failing the recipients of the grants on a daily basis
because there is a footsy-footsy relationship between
social development and the crooks who are in the CPS, who
are stealing the social grants of our people and there
are no solutions from this government. Anina mahloni!
[You are not ashamed!] [Time expired.] [Applause.]

THE DOWNFALL OF BRITISH COLONIALISM

(Member‘s Statement)


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Dr P W A MULDER (FFP): Chairperson, the second half of
the 19th century in Southern Africa was characterised and
dominated by dominated by British colonialism. Cecil John
Rhodes became the symbol of this British imperialism in
Southern Africa. In his speech in Oxford in 1877, Rhodes
said and I quote, ―If there be a God, I think that what
He would like me to do is to paint as much of the map of
Africa British red as possible.‖

As a result of this approach, the Anglo-Zulu War ensued
in 1879, between the British Empire and the Zulu Kingdom.
It was followed by the First Anglo-Boer War in 1881,
between the British Empire and the Afrikaner Boer
burghers of the Zuid Afrikaanse Republiek.

Yesterday it was exactly 136 years, since the Battle of
Majuba in which the British were convincingly defeated by
the Boers. On 27 February 1881, the British were
convincingly defeated. The British Gen Colley occupied
Majuba Mountain as part of his campaign to attack the
Zuid Afrikaanse Republiek and annexed it for Britain. The
Boers under the leadership of Gen Piet Joubert Nicolas


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Smit convincingly defeated the British and the British
Gen Colley died during this battle.

This war was the only war which the British lost in the
19th century and to date; they also lost all four battles
in that war. The FFP would like to honour those Boers who
were prepared to sacrifice their lives in the fight
against British imperialism. I thank you.

OUTBREAK OF XENOPHOBIC ATTACKS IN JOHANNESBURG AND
PRETORIA

(Member‘s Statement)

Ms D Z RANTHO (ANC): Hon Chairperson, the ANC strongly
condemns the recent spate of xenophobic violence in which
shops of foreign national and properties have been looted
in Pretoria West, Mamelodi and Atteridgeville.

Twelve houses believed to be drug dens and brothels were
also torched by locals in Rosettenville, in Johannesburg.
Residents in some of these communities blame foreign
nationals for the escalating crimes especially drug


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trafficking, and there are simmering tensions that have
been reported in other areas including the dissemination
of hate speech and threatening messages via social media.

The ANC condemns xenophobic utterances of the City of
Johannesburg DA Mayor Mr Herman Mashaba. We urge all
South Africans to fight against xenophobia wherever and
whenever it manifests itself and for law-enforcement
officers to continue with the fight against crime to
further promote peace in communities in South Africa.

In the same manner that we fought against racism, sexism
and all forms of discrimination, we must fight against
the xenophobia to promote the global concept of
migration. The ANC is calling upon citizens and nonnationals to exercise restraint unite against crime and
work with the authorities to bring the perpetrators to
book. I thank you. [Applause.]

SOBUKWE REMEMBERED

(Member‘s Statement)


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Mr N T GODI (APC): Hon House Chair, we remember Sobukwe.
Born on 5 December 1924, Robert Mangaliso Sobukwe passed
away 39 years ago, on 27 February 1978. The APC has over
the years held month-long rallies and lectures to
commemorate the life, ideas and the legacy of this great
son of Africa.

This year was no exception; we started in Giyani and
finished in Mkhondo this past Sunday. As the APC we are
committed to beat Sobukwe‘s salvation drum from shore-toshore and from door-to-door till his ideas of Africa for
the Africans, Africans for humanity and humanity for God
become a common cause amongst our people in the farms,
shanty towns, villages, townships and suburbs.

We remain forever committed for his ideas of PanAfricanism and Africanist socialist democracy and the
projection of the African personality. Sobukwe, a man of
great intellect and ideas taught at General Secondary
School in Standerton, in Mpumalanga and later lectured at
Wits University. He rejected a post at Rhodes University,
where he was promised the same salary as white lecturers,


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but on condition he abandoned his political activism. We
remember Sobukwe. Thank you.

R17 MILLION SKILLS PROGRAMME FOR YOUTH EMPOWERMENT

(Member‘s Statement)

Ms P D MANANA (ANC): Over the past 22 years the ANC-led
government has stepped up efforts to educate the
country‘s youth and develop their skills. Despite these
efforts, there continues to be a large number of
unemployed and unskilled youth due to high volume of
migration from rural areas to cities caused by outlawing
influx control.

The newly launched R17 million skills programme for the
Compensation Fund in partnership with the SA Institute of
Chartered Accountants was launched by the Minister of
Labour, Mildred Oliphant, on Friday 24 February 2017 to
enhance employment especially of the youth from poor
backgrounds. The skills programme is aimed at injecting
accounting and actuarial skills into the Compensation
Fund which is undergoing a major overhaul and realignment


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to meet its social security obligations in the South
African labour markets. The duration of the programme
will range from three to six years.

The ANC believes that these programmes will contribute to
addressing what is often referred to as scare skills.
This initiative is yet another of many efforts that the
ANC-led government is pursuing in order to address
unemployment and by extension a playing catalytic role
towards all inclusive economic participation of our
people in general and our youth ... [Time expired.]
[Applause.]

MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING UNAWARE OF
CHALLENGES AT TVET COLLEGES

(Member‘s Statement)

Mr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN (DA): Chair, also on skills
development, recent answers provided by the Minister of
Higher Education and Training show that he is unaware of
some of the serious problems experienced at our Tvet
colleges.


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The HOUSE CHAIPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Order, hon members!

Mr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN (DA): The Minister claimed that
only three colleges failed to receive their printed
examination papers before the date on which the November
examinations were to be written. This is completely wrong
as other colleges confirmed. College staff were running
around to copy examination papers from faxes and emails
whilst students were anxiously waiting to start with
their exams at numerous centres all over the country.
This shows a complete lack of knowledge from the Minister
about what is happening on the ground.

Only 41% of the candidates that sat for the N2
examination in November 2015 passed. The situation is
even worse in the case of the National Certificate
vocational, only 10% of our public Tvet colleges achieved
a pass rate of more than 60%. In 28% of our public
colleges less than one third of candidates that sat for
the examinations passed. We have a growing demand for
young skilled South Africans. Minister Nzimande should
act decisively to rescue our public colleges and more
importantly our lost generation. I thank you. [Applause.]


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IsiNdebele:
USIHLALO WENDLU (Kkz M G BOROTO): Ukuthula malunga
ahloniphekileko. Into eniyenzako ayikarisi – Ngiyanibawa.

SA SOCIAL SECURITY AGENCY’S INCOMPETENCE

(Member‘s Statement)

Ms E N LOUW (EFF): The Economic Freedom Fighters is
seriously concerned about the looming crisis brought
about by the shocking incompetence of the SA Social
Security Agency, Sassa, under the political leadership of
Ms Bathabile Dlamini. Sassa and the department have
decided to continue with the illegal contract awarded to
Cash Paymaster Services, CPS, despite the fact that this
will be a gross illegal act and it will be showing the
middle finger to the Constitutional Court which ruled
that the CPS contract was invalid.

Minister Bathabile had previously affirmed that Sassa
will take over the distribution of social grants by the
first of April. To everyone‘s shock, neither Sassa nor


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the department have done any preparatory work to take
over the distribution of grants and instead have opted to
extend the CPS contract. The EFF in Parliament repeatedly
asked the Department of Social Development in 2016, if
Sassa would be ready to take over the mammoth task of
distributing grants to the more than 17 million social
grants recipients by 01 April 2017. We were always
assured that it will be the case. As recent as November
2016, the Department of Social Development and Sassa were
adamant that Sassa would be ready to take over the
payments of grants. We can only assume that Minister
Dlamini through her political weight around would ensure
that the contract extension will be given to CPS,
however, it is illegal it may be. We condemn and she must
resign with immediate effect.

DRIVING A VIBRANT EXPORT CULTURE TO ACCELERATE JOBS

(Member‘s Statement)

Mrs J FUBBS (ANC): Hon Chair, the ANC welcomes the
measures by the Department of Trade and Industry to drive
this vibrant culture. It is doing this through developing


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a pool of export-ready companies, increasing the number
of exporters and ensuring that new markets and export
products are developed. It will launch this drive
beginning with several three-day training workshops which
will be held in Polokwane, Pretoria, Cape Town and
Johannesburg. This is part of the Integrated National
Export Strategy which is the country‘s strategy towards
ensuring export promoting industrialisation to spur
economic growth.

Minister Rob Davies said that the main goal of the
National Exporter Development Programme, NEDP, is to
increase exports, particularly of the value-added kind
because it contributes to employment creation.
Interventions proposed by the National Development Plan
which aim to create 11 million jobs by 2030 and to
stimulate economic growth includes: Improving skills and
innovation, enhancing competitiveness of our businesses
and increasing the export markets. I thank you.

THIRTY NINE YEARS SINCE SOBUKWE’S DEATH

(Member‘s Statement)


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Mr R L MBINDA (PAC): Chair, yesterday, 27 February marked
39 years since the death of our son of the soil,
Smangaliso Sobukwe, one of the greatest visionaries
Africa has ever seen, the defier of the undefiable. On
behalf of the PAC, let me thank all South African
institutions and organisations that made it their mission
to pay tribute to this African son of the soil, including
the ANC caucus in Limpopo – I know that they have passed
a motion without notice the other day.

It is imperative that this gallant fighter, Sobukwe, be
given the recognition that he deserves. We are calling
upon our government to assist the PAC in tracing his
voice recordings as he is the only leader during our
lifetime whose voice has never been heard by the African
people. We also want Fort Hare to be named after this
noble son and we also want his house in Galashiwe,
Kimberly, to be renovated including his office as a
heritage site. Long live the undying spirit of Mangaliso
Sobukwe, long live.

TEXTILE INDUSTRY TO BOOST SA ECONOMY


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(Member‘s Statement)

Ms T MANTASHE (ANC): Chairperson, the National
Development Plan identifies trade as one of the key
interventions to enhance growth of a more dynamic and
inclusive economy. It envisages a South Africa where
rural communities have better opportunities to
participate fully in the economic, social and political
life of the country. The ANC welcomes the recent launch
of the Ivili Loboya Textile on Thursday 23 February 2017
in Rosebank by the Minister in the Presidency for
Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation, Minister Jeff
Radebe. This is a very important milestone in efforts to
transform the economic landscape of South Africa.

The textile industry is one of the most strategic
platforms through which South Africa can bolster trade of
local products. Ivili Loboya, which is Africa‘s first
cashmere fabric manufacturer, was first established in
2015 as a wool processing hub in Ibika village in
Butterworth, Eastern Cape.


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We believe that a project of this nature has great
potential to contribute significantly both to the
development of an inclusive economy as well as in
employment creation. This manufacturing industry is an
ideal model for sustainable entrepreneurship as it
encourages productivity, hard work and self-reliance.
These are the kinds of initiatives that add meaningful
value in changing the current socioeconomic conditions of
the people of South Africa.

ANC SHIFTS THE BLAME ON XENOPHOBIC ATTACKS

(Member‘s Statement)

Mr B R J LORIMER (DA): As usual when it fails, the ANC
tries to blame its failure on somebody else. So, it is
with the recent upsurge in xenophobic violence in
Gauteng, the ANC is seriously trying to distract its
attention from its track record by throwing mud at
others. Let us look at that record. Under the ANC, border
control has collapsed and in many places it is easy to
walk into South Africa unchecked because border fences
have been cut and in some cases stolen and are almost


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never patrolled. In other places syndicates of borders
guards or home affairs officials would ease the way in
payment of a bride.

ANC leaders has a habit of encouraging xenophobia like
the Minister of Small Business Development, Lindiwe Zulu,
who two years ago said that foreign business owners can
not expect to coexist peacefully with local business
owners unless they share their business secrets. In the
DA we know that Zimbabwean maths teachers and Congolese
doctors can help build our nation. We welcome legal
immigrants and we know too that some people are upset
with illegal immigrants. It is entirely reasonable for
South Africans to expect that borders should be properly
controlled and policed and it is also reasonable to
expect us to be open to legal entry by skilled migrants.
What a pity that the ANC fails and then blames others
instead of fixing the problem. [Applause.]

DISCRIMINATION OF BLACK JUNIOR OFFICIALS AT DRAKENSTEIN
CORRECTIONAL CENTRE

(Member‘s Statement)


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Ms M MATSHOBA (ANC): The ANC is worried about the lack of
transformation in the Western Cape, where senior
officials heading public departments are still trapped in
the old apartheid laager mentality by perpetuating old
racial stereotypes, pitting blacks and coloureds
employees against each other. This was evident in the
protest on Monday, 20 February 2017 by Prison officials
including warders and administrators at Drakenstein
Correctional Centre, against one of the institution‘s
senior officials who discriminates against black
officials as well as his failure to implement the
department‘s employment equity plan.

The ANC calls for the provincial government to
investigate the matter, and if found to be true, urge the
provincial government to take the necessary remedial
action, to ensure that racial discrimination is stamped
out especially in such a historic centre where President
Nelson Mandela was once incarcerated. I thank you.
[Applause.]

THE CREATION OF JOBS


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(Minister‘s Response)

The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Chairperson, I want
to thank the hon Fubbs, hon Mantashe and hon Koornhof for
their statements. I think, with respect to the statements
by hon Fubbs and Mantashe, what they said, speaks to
themselves. I just want to add to what hon Koornhof was
saying about the business process services. I just want
to indicate to him that there are indeed opportunities to
increase employment. The investments that are taking
place now are not just in call centres, there is also
much more complex back office work that is coming our
way. Our current incentive is accommodating that.

Yes, indeed, we need to promote that more effectively. I
was in London just recently, at the request of our
foreign economic representative there, to talk to a
number of the companies. They are actually very pleased
with the experience they have here in South Africa.

It is also relevant to say that the Global Sourcing
Association, which is the international body that
combines firms that operate in this space, awarded South


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Africa with the Outsourcing Destination of the Year Award
last year. We won it the year before as well and they
informed me in London that they will be holding their
international conference in South Africa later this year.

So, I think we have quite a lot that we can build on. We
are doing what we can as a department, in junction with
our partners, to ensure that we push the job
opportunities further than what they are at the moment.
Thank you.

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Thank you, House Chairperson.

IsiZulu:
Kumhlonishwa uManana ngiyafisa ukuthi siyabonga ukubongwa
[recognition.] njengoMnyango Wezabasebenzi futhi
sisazoqhubeka sibaqeqeshe abantu abasha ukuze
kungabibikho muntu ozithi ayilandelwa i-Employment Equity
Act ngoba amakhono awekho.

Okwesibili, ngiyafisa ukusho kumhlonishwa lapha e-Western
Cape kanye nakwabanye omasipala abaphethwe yi-DA bakubeke
kwacaca ukuthi la bekhona abazukuyilandela i-Employment


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Equity Act. Siyafisa ukuqwashisa izinkampani ukuthi uma
ngabe zingayilandeli i-Employment Equity Act, asinayo
inkinga kodwa sizozithatha sizise eNkantolo
yeZabasebenzi. [Ubuwelewele.] Futhi sinalo uhlu
esesiluthumele eNkantolo yeZabasebenzi ...

English:
... for those who are noncompliant.

IsiZulu:
Okokugcina Sihlalo, ngiyafisa ukusho kumhlonishwa we-DA
ukuthi akuwona wonke amakolishi e-TVET angawenzi
umsebenzi. [Ubuwelewele.] Izolo bekukade kwethweswa iziqu
zabantu abasha ebebeqeqeshwa yikolishi le-TVET
eliseMpumalanga. Abathe bayaziqhenya kuyimanje ngoba
umsebenzi bawuthola ubuthaphuthaphu ngenxa yokuqeqeshwa
emakolishi e-TVET. Ngiyabonga Sihlalo. [Applause.]

BETTER PERFORMANCE AND ACCOMPLISHMENT OF AFRICAN LEARNERS

(Minister‘s Response)


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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon Chairperson,
indeed, we should congratulate the Free State for their
accomplishment. Not only have they passed, for the first
time in the history of our country, the threshold of 90%,
but the difference between their achievement and their
nearest competitor was more than 2%. It says to us that
there is hope for provinces such as the Free State, North
West, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo - the rural provinces - to
achieve the highest level.

The words of the leadership or the provincial Chairperson
of Cosas are correct; what this demonstrates is a
movement towards better performance and accomplishment
among African learners. If we look at the results, of
those learners who passed Mathematics above 60%, two
thirds, more than 19 000, were African children. That is
remarkable. More than 1 700 additional learners took up
Mathematics. That again is a good news story.

What we are seeing is a seismic move towards better
performance amongst the Quintile 1, 2 and 3 – the no-fee
paying schools.


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In conclusion, let me just share with you the fact that
our Quintile 1, 2 and 3 schools - the no-fee schools –
produced more distinctions and more bachelors passes than
the Quintile 4 and 5 schools. That is a good story
because, at the centre of what we do in terms of equity
and quality, is the advancement and the welfare of the
African child. I thank you. [Interjections.]

NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr N KOORNHOF: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice
that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move
on behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates the strengthening of South
Africa‘s working relations with other African states
to take forward a regional industrialisation agenda,
ensuring that Africa becomes a manufacturing and
industrial power.

Mr T W R CHANCE: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice
that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move
on behalf of the DA:


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That the House debates why, when 90% of jobs are
expected to come from small and medium enterprises,
the Department of Small Business Development only
receives 0,1% of government spending.

Mr N S MATIASE: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice
that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move
on behalf of the EFF:

That the House -

1)

debates the state of near anarchy and collapse
of the Bloem Water utility in the Free State,
with widespread allegations of mismanagement,
corruption and fraud;

2)

further debates the lives of whistle-blowers
already lost and workers who have lost their
livelihoods at the hands of perpetrators and
beneficiaries of corruption that is too much to
ignore.


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Ms J FUBBS: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that
on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on
behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates bank collusion in
manipulating currency trading.

Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: House Chairperson, I hereby give
notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall
move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House debates the issue of disused mine
shaft that is not properly secured, in order to
protect the public that resides close to these
areas, in particular small children, as has happened
in Jerusalem in Ekurhuleni recently.

Mr L M SHELEMBE: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice
that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move
on behalf of the NFP:

That the House deliberate on the issue of the
general quality of air in our suburban areas and


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ways to address the health-related problems due to
air pollution.

Mr M L D NTOMBELA: House Chairperson, I hereby give
notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall
move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates the fast-tracking of the
introduction of compulsory community service for all
graduates.

Mr S L N KWANKWA: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice
that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move
on behalf of the UDM:

That the House debates the recent xenophobic
violence in Pretoria and the need for urgent and
decisive action by government, as well as the
development of strategies to provide long-term
solutions to this problem.


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Mr F S M DEFREITAS: House Chairperson, I hereby give
notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall
move on behalf of the DA:

That the House debates the Passenger Rail Agency of
South Africa, how its acting Group CEO attempted to
obtain an astronomical salary increase illegally and
how such practices can be prevented.

Ms E N LOUW: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that
on the next sitting of day the House, I shall move on
behalf of the EFF:

That the House debates the continuous accidents that
are happening at Petro SA and the safety of workers.

Ms T MANTASHE: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice
that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move
on behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates regulating the extremely
exorbitant fees charged by the private health care
system.


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Ms P MANANA: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that
on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on
behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates the importance of investment
in townships and rural economies for women.

Ms M MATSHOBA: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice
that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move
on behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates the acceleration of the
provision of proper basic services and
infrastructure in all existing informal settlements.

Afrikaans:
Mev A STEYN: Agb Voorsitter, by die volgende sitting van
die Huis, sal ek namens die DA voorstel:

Dat die Huis die swak toestande van paaie in
Namakwaland debateer, met spesifieke verwysing na
die Grootvleipas van Garies na Hondeklipbaai, die
Rooipad van Kleinsee na Kommagas, die grondpad


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tussen Alexanderbaai en Sanddrif, die Gammopad vanaf
Springbok na Vaalputs.

Ms D Z RANTHO: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice
that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move
on behalf of ANC:

That the House debates accelerating the state-owned
mining company, to ensure a share of mineral
resources rents and equity and contribution to the
integrated value chains in the sector.

The House adjourned at 17:48.




 

 

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