Gender Mainstreaming Initiatives in Public Service: Office of the Public Service Commission briefing
Public Service and Administration
22 August 2007
Meeting Summary
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Meeting report
PORTFOLIO
COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION
22 August 2007
GENDER MAINSTREAMING INITIATIVES IN PUBLIC SERVICE: OFFICE
OF THE PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION BRIEFING
Chairperson: Mr R Baloyi (ANC)
Documents handed out:
Gender
mainstreaming initiatives in the Public Service: PowerPoint Presentation
Gender
mainstreaming initiatives in the Public Service summary
Gender
mainstreaming project (samdi)
Gender
mainstreaming program (samdi)
Gender mainstreaming
initiatives in the Public Service: Public Service Commission November 2006
Audio recording
of meeting
SUMMARY
The Public Service Commission, the Department of Public Service and
Administration, and the South African Management Development Institute made
presentations on gender mainstreaming and the gender initiatives in the public
service. The Public Service Commission (PSC) had recently conducted a study,
which showed general
lack of knowledge and understanding of gender mainstreaming in most departments
across all levels. Some gender targets were met, but disability targets had
not. Empowerment of women was not happening, and any efforts seemed to be
reactive stances against sexual harassment. The PSC recommended that the
national structures must be strengthened and their roles and responsibilities
defined. Women felt undermined by male colleagues as patriarchic attitudes
persisted, and those women in power were perceived as not assisting other
women. There were few policies to deal with sexual harassment or victimization.
The Office on the Status of Women did not have institutional capacity to deliver
their mandate. A framework was needed to recognize family friendly policies. It
was recommended that senior management be compelled to enhance gender
management skills and policies.
The South African Management Development Institute described its gender
initiative in conjunction with the Department and the Office on the Status of
Women. Funding had been received to implement a three year programme
in gender mainstreaming. This would cover both females and senior management in
all three spheres of government, and would consist of accredited programmes aimed at improving the capacity of departments
to mainstream gender, change management and compulsion to implement policies.
Training would be followed up with support to departments. The Department then
informed the Committee that capacity for the gender focal points was a
challenge and it appeared that they were not, as required, reporting to
Directors General. Sexual harassment was “rife” and there was lack of
understanding as to what it included. The Department agreed that it would be
desirable to introduce compulsory requirements, and had also instituted
interrogation as to why departments were not meeting targets for gender and
disability. An eight-principle plan for departments was shortly to be introduced.
Discussion by Members included the
problems of perceptions and attitudes, the problems of the disability targets
not being reached and inadequate excuses, including lack of a disability
database and skills. Members were worried that the institutions were
overlapping in their mandates and not achieving anything effective, and that
where employment plans existed they were not being applied. They raised the
problems around lack of understanding and lack of implementation of sexual
harassment policies, the need to change attitudes, and to study the experiences
of other countries. Early childhood education and child care needed involvement
of the community and private sector, so that women were able to advance in
their jobs. Family friendly policies also needed to include men, and the point
was made strongly that empowerment meant empowering both sexes by helping
attitudes to change, to make employment more flexible, to encourage women in
power not to try to exclude other women, and to note that women should try to
empower themselves. The comment was made that the educational system was not
assisting the disabled and this too needed attention.
MINUTES
Gender Mainstreaming in the Public Service: Office of the Public Service
Commission (OPSC) Briefing
Professor Stan Sangweni, Chairperson, Public
Service Commission (PSC), informed the committee that the Office of the Public
Service Commission (OPSC) would present on the report and findings into gender
mainstreaming, and introduced the delegation.
Ms Mmathao Mashao, Chief
Director, OPSC stated that the Public Service Commission had conducted a study
on gender mainstreaming initiatives. This was intended to provide a baseline
for future research, to develop a gender representivity
profile, to examine the extent to which there had been empowerment of woman, to
establish whether there were family-friendly policies, to examine the impact of
gender mainstreaming, how recruitment and promotion enhanced gender equality,
and the sensitivity of issues associated with gender relations. All of this
would enable the PSC to propose interventions. It would also examine the role
of the Office on the Status of Women (OSW).
The key findings of the study were then summarised.
There was a general lack of knowledge and understanding of gender mainstreaming
in most departments across all levels. The provincial overview of woman in
senior positions showed that the target of 30% had not been reached. Some
individual provinces had reached or even exceeded the target (such as North
West) but other provinces, such as the Western Cape, were way below par. The
average percentage of woman in senior positions in national departments was
31.2%. Targets had not been reached in respect of disability, with seven
provinces having no female managers with disabilities. The empowerment of woman
was not happening. Nothing was apparently being done, except where it was
necessary to take a reactive stance against sexual harassment. There was no
defined institutional structure to attain the vision of gender mainstreaming..
It was therefore necessary to strengthen the national structures established to
promote women’s empowerment and to define their roles and responsibilities.
Gender mainstreaming was not being included in departmental planning. In
respect of family friendly policies, it seemed that the only provision was that
some women were permitted to take family responsibility leave. No other
policies were in place. There was lack of support for gender mainstreaming from
senior management. In most departments recruitment took place according to the
equity targets and woman generally felt disadvantaged from the onset, because
of their practical needs. In general gender relations were adequate, but women
felt undermined by their male colleagues. There was a lack of knowledge of what
constituted sexual harassment at the junior and senior level, and there were no
policies in place to dealt with harassment or
secondary victimization. It was clear that the OSW did not have institutional
capacity to deliver their mandate.
The report had made several recommendations. There should be acceleration of
the empowerment of women, and improvement of gender representivity.
Effective gender structures and processes must be put in place. The Department
of Public Service and Administration (DPSA) must create a framework that recognised the importance of family friendly policies. It
should be compulsory for senior management to be capacitated to enhance gender
management skills. A supportive environment must be created in order for sexual
harassment to be reported. The report further recommended effective
co-ordination and collaboration in the public service and the need for all role
players to make a collective effort to make gender mainstreaming a reality.
Although women’s access to political power and decision making had improved
since 1994, their working conditions were not yet satisfactory.
Discussion
Mr M Sikakane (ANC)
remarked that he had recently attended a graduation ceremony where the female
guest speaker had commented that even though she was a director, she had found
that her peers and subordinates resented female criticism as they thought the
fact that they were male meant that they were entitled to respect.
Mr Admill Simpson. Deputy
Director General, OPSC replied that this kind of message reflected their
findings in the report that essentially the attitudes of men towards women had
not changed, and this culture permeated through to the public service. PSC were
advocating compulsory gender education through the Senior Manager Service
(SMS). It was pitiful that a female in senior management was expected to show a
certain kind of respect towards her male subordinates as opposed to her female
subordinates.
Ms Mashao added that the female director was capitulating
to prevailing stereotypes. Female empowerment meant that all had to be
respected, irrespective of their sex.
Mr K Minnie (DA) also cited his experience of women
being discriminated against. A woman who had been in the fishing business for
23 years and had employed 11 families was refused a permit, because she
herself, due to other family responsibilities, could not be out at sea. The
refusal of the permit to her purely on the grounds of her sex had put 11
families out of a job. Women must be treated with the same respect as males.
Mr K Julies (DA) remarked that the point on
management and lack of knowledge showed a poor picture. He was concerned also
about the disability issue and asked how this could be addressed.
Ms Odette Ramsingh, Director General, OPSC replied that
disability issue was very problematic, especially in addressing the required
target. The target in 1999 was 2%, but by 2002 this had still not been reached.
The PSC brought out a report that stated that unless there was drastic intervention,
the targets could not be met. Even now, in 2007, that target had not yet been
reached. It was therefore clear that PSC had to play a more significant role. A
disciplinary enquiry was due to start the following today that would in essence
request the senior management and leadership to give reasons why they had been
unable to meet their targets. She wanted to put on record that she was of the
view that unless some positive steps were taken, the targets would not even be
met by 2009.
Mr Julies asked how far up to standard the position
was, having mentioned the 30% mark, and how much more was needed to achieve the
other 20% by 2009.
Ms Ramsingh replied that she was pleased to note that
the 30% target had mostly been met, apart from provinces like Western Cape,
where the targets still fell short. She felt it important to note that it took
from 1999 to 2007 to reach the target. This posed the question whether the
target of 50% by 2009 was really attainable, and how it would be reached. She
was not convinced that there was enough debate around these targets. She
informed the Committee that she was not against the 50% target for 2009 but she
did not want senior management to be set up for failure.
Dr U Roopnarain (IFP) asked how the various institutions
achieved their goals as they seemed to be doing the same thing, and there was
lot of overlapping mandates.
Ms M Matsomela (ANC) asked why in the recommendations
PSC was introducing another structure to the fold that was supposed to help in
the coordination of gender issues. It had alluded to some tensions in the
gender machinery between the OSW, Commission for Gender Equality (CGE) and
gender desks in the various departments. She shared the view that they were
introducing another structure in an area that already had too many structures,
and that this would add to the ineffectiveness already existing.
Ms Ramsingh replied that it had become apparent
during their investigations that there clearly was an overlap of mandates
throughout the gender machinery. PSC was effectively arguing for tighter
coordination among these organs. They were definitely not introducing a new
structure, as they too believed that there were already too many structures.
She was of the opinion that the Committee could fully appreciate the criticism
that stated that the various departments dealing with gender initiatives were
causing unnecessary tension. Because the structures were not working together
they were failing to produce coherent collective work. The question should be why
they were failing, and in all honesty the blame lay on all shoulders.
Mr Simpson added that even though the various
departments were mandated to have employment equity plans, and that these
existed, often in an elaborate form, the fact was that on the ground the plans
were not being applied.
Dr U Roopnarain (IFP) asked if there was a clear
sexual harassment policy.
Ms Matsomela asked for clarification on the point
that junior and senior management displayed a lack of knowledge and
understanding about sexual harassment. She asked if they could not fully grasp
what was meant by sexual harassment or whether there was a general reluctance
to deal with it.
Ms Ramsingh replied that the report had identified
both lack of understanding and lack of implementation of the sexual harassment
policies. It was clear that some people were not aware that some of their
actions fell into the category of sexual harassment, whilst others conveniently
did not understand that they had over-stepped the mark. This was a problem
faced by both male and female workers, but seemed more prevalent among women.
One of the problems was that the public service had termed sexual harassment as
an offence that would then be dealt with under the grievance procedures.
However, given the sensitivity and the lack of knowledge it was not effective
simply to leave them to the normal grievances procedures. More work must be
done on this issue. PSC were suggesting that departmental policies should deal
with these issues extensively.
Mr Simpson added that the sample study found that
there were eight draft sexual harassment policies in place and there were three
approved policies adopted and being applied..
Ms Mashao added that in a focus group one of the
managers had promised a workshop on sexual harassment, but that this had never
happened, and the staff remained ignorant about the issues.
Ms Matsomela remarked that there was a perception
that female bosses were more difficult to work with as also a related
perception that women did not recognise other female
leaders. She asked if these perceptions had been tested in the study, and if
there was any truth.
Ms Ramsingh replied that a study of this nature could
only follow anecdotal statements. The report was trying to convey that one of
the prevailing perceptions, which was in itself very
stereotypical, was that female bosses were more difficult and demanding to work
with. It must be remembered that this perception came from a microcosm of
society reflecting certain views. Another perception was that an assertive
woman was stereotyped as a problematic woman. These were not the views of the
PSC..
Mr Minnie said that in his opinion the next leader
should be a woman, and the DA had clearly led the initiative.
A member of the Department of Public Service and Administration (DPSA), questioned the mandates between DPSA and the OSW. She
viewed the OSW as the nerve centre for the country in promoting gender
initiatives in the country as a whole, but at the same time thought it was
surely the mandate of the DPSA to promote gender initiatives among public
servants.
The Chairperson remarked that it was an interesting comment. The CGE would be
likely to argue that it was their constitutional mandate to look at these
issues across the board. The gender issue had to be had to be tackled head on.
As long as females were not appreciative of other females in senior management
there clearly was a problem, and he cited statistics quoted by the media to
state that seven out of ten woman preferred to work
for a male boss.
South African Management Development Institute (SAMDI) Briefing
Dr Bunny Subedar, Executive Manager, SAMDI,
informed the Committee that she was pleased to announce that SAMDI was driving
a major gender initiative with the DPSA and the OSW. She also informed the
committee that before PSC released their report SAMDI had already anticipated
some of the recommendations, and had begun to work on them. They had achieved
major headway.
SAMDI had received funding from Swedish International Development Cooperation
Agency (SIDA) for their gender-mainstreaming proposal development, and
implementation of the gender mainstreaming programme.
This was going to be administered to public service employees over three years.
The programme was going to cover both females and
senior management in all three spheres of government, and the first year was
already under way. The first year was characterised
by consultations with the key stakeholders on the development of accredited
training programmes. SAMDI had also managed to
consult 27 gender experts and had managed to create a composite team that was
registered in June with South African Qualifications Authority. The design
framework of the curriculum was already finished, and SAMDI was already moving
into its development. The second year was going to be focused on the training,
and in the third year they were going to have follow-up support to the
departments that would have received training.
She highlighted some of the objectives. These included improving the capacity of
departments to mainstream gender, internal strategies and programmes
development, and increasing the capacity of departments to create their own
training programmes. SAMDI had also taken to heart
some of the recommendations made by the PSC, such as the toolkit approach, which
they were developing in their programme along with
the check-list approach. They were further sensitized to the PSC
recommendations on change management, which sought to help people change their
attitudes. She wanted to propose, for discussion, the idea that in order for
gender mainstreaming
to move forward, there was a need for some form of compulsion.
Training of management in the types of programmes
being described could not be the only solution. She then asked the Committee
whether it was possible to have compulsory public training.
Department of Public Service and Administration (DPSA) Briefing
Ms Ranji Reddy, Deputy Director: Gender, DPSA noted
that the report by the PSC had come at a very opportune time, as it
coincided with some of the considerations the DPSA and SAMDI were putting into
place. The report reflected some of the essential hindrances to the promotion
of gender equality. In terms of their mandate, DPSA had to look to the target
of 50%, and look at some of the policies in relation to this. Ms Ranji was of the opinion that DPSA needed to go beyond
policies to locate the target. They had been able to do this through their
strategic framework of gender equality which the Minister had launched and
which was currently being finalised. The document was
available on the website, and went beyond numbers to look at what was needed in
terms of support programmes.
The capacity for the gender focal point in order to promote gender equality was
a major challenge, as most of the points were at either level nine or below.
Only seven of the national departments had points at Director or Chief Director
level, and nine departments had dedicated gender
units. The gender focal points were supposed to report to the Director General,
but the survey showed that not one of the gender focal points was doing
so. The survey also looked at the family
policies. It found that sexual harassment was rife. A common criticism that
emerged from the road shows was that commitment at director level was rather
questionable. The question frequently asked was whether DPSA could impose a
form of compulsion for the promotion of gender equity and disability. DPSA conceded that this would have to happen.
On 27 August PSC and DPSA had agreed to have a high-level round-table
discussion. An eight-principle plan for Heads of Departments was to be
implemented in all departments to effectively promote gender equality. All the
national heads of departments and the Director Generals would attend. This
should address the major challenge around implementation.
Discussion
Mr N Gcwabaza (ANC)
noted that when the Skills Development Act was introduced, it had not focused
on women being a group that was doubly disadvantaged through lack of skills and
lack of confidence. He believed there was need to redirect the focus to the
empowerment of women.
In respect of family friendly policies Mr Gcwabaza suggested that a study be done into other
countries because it was clear that the provisions in the Employment Equity Act
were inadequate. UNICEF had commented that South Africa lacked an educational
system that catered for child care provision and education. He suggested that
there was a need to look into developing early childhood education by involving
the communities and the private sector. This would have the beneficial effect
of allowing women to focus more on their jobs if they were not so worried about
their child’s welfare. He noted that there needed to be a change of attitude;
family friendly policies also involved allowing men to take family
responsibility leave and look after their children.
Ms Ramsingh agreed that indeed these were some of the
conflicting issues.
Mr Gcwabaza continued that
when he attended one of the world conferences on labour
relations, one of the priorities under discussion was making women’s employment
more flexible, and this was echoed in the PSC report. When dealing with such
issues PSC should be careful not to casualise female
employment, but to work on the necessary improvements.
He added that the advertisements must also be improved. Sometimes the way in
which a job was advertised made female candidates reluctant to apply for the
position.
He acknowledged that perhaps when the gender machinery was first put in place
it was intended to address a myriad of other issues because of South Africa’s
apartheid history. Fourteen years into democracy it might be time to
restructure the various institutions that dealt with gender, and effectively
make them into one unit, which would lead to a more concentrated, cohesive
approach to gender, and do away with the apparent tension.
Ms M Tlake (ANC) commented that it was obvious that
when organs such as PSC, DPSA and SAMDI conducted their studies and compiled
their reports these were
individual undertakings, but it was significant that they
normally brought to light the same problems. She was appreciative of the fact
that they were looking into integrating, but cautioned that this was difficult.
Ms Tlake was very concerned by the fact that senior
management lacked knowledge, as the gender machinery had been in place for some
time now.. She thought that this could be overcome by tackling an attitude
change, and the solution would have to involve more integration and education.
She was glad that the PSC was able to pick up on the prevailing tensions and
was hopeful that they would be resolved. She commented that women who headed
institutions such as OSW were effectively not in any decision-making position,
and it was this fact that was leading to gender issues being stalled and taking
a back seat.
Ms Tlake vehemently agreed that the perception that
females made worse bosses than males was correct, in her own experience. Female
attitudes must also change. They must support their female counterparts, and
advance with them instead of wanting to be the only person in charge and
adopting a PHD (Pull Her Down) attitude.
She expressed her support of the idea of questioning senior management as to
why they were unable to meet their targets. She believed this was due to lack
of monitoring, and she believed that the system being proposed would be a great
monitoring and accountability tool.
Mr B Mthembu (ANC) wanted
to emphasize that there was progress in the direction of becoming a gender
equitable society. The challenges they faced came from various levels. Firstly
there was the senior management level, which he thought could be easily be
countered by legislation. Other problematic areas were culture and religion,
which were ingrained and people were socialized into them. It was very
difficult for a person who grew up being taught that a woman’s place was in the
kitchen to appreciate a woman on a different footing. The only remedy according
to him, was some sort of cultural shock.
He added that the provinces that were still short in their gender equity
numbers should learn from the provinces that had reached their targets.
Finally Mr Mthembu
commented that if they wanted female empowerment to work they had to empower
men too.
Prof Sangweni noted that in the PSC there had been four Directors General that had led the transformation, two females
and two males. However, when the positions were advertised no specific
gender was required; merely the most qualified person. Whilst he welcomed the
programs being initiated by SAMDI and DPSA the question was who were their
targets - females only, males only or both male and females. He concluded by
saying that what was needed was tight, rigorous, robust monitoring.
Ms Matsomela said that when talking about female
empowerment they needed to know that this was a very personal decision.
Government could only provide an enabling environment but it was effectively up
to the women to empower themselves..
Mr Sikakane wondered
whether these reports had gone to the root of the problem. It could be that in
the case of disability there might not be qualified disabled people to fill the
positions, hence the difficulty in meeting the target.
Ms Ramsingh replied that this was one of the
arguments around disability, and the lack of a definite skills database was one
of the obstacles. In the old South Africa a black women with disability could
only dream of being able to get an education. The disabled felt that the lack
of a skills database was being used too often as an excuse.
Ms Reddy said that the problem was that the South African system did not have
structures in place that catered for congenial disabilities. Most skilled and
disabled people had already acquired the skills before they became disabled. As
such there was need to create the relevant structures to allow disabled people
to get a proper education from childhood. She also commented on the need to
have programmes that got people to challenge
themselves to think differently.
Mr Sikakane commented that
white women in the past never seemed to discuss gender, and seemed to be
satisfied that only one woman had served as Minister in the previous government..
Ms Reddy replied that patriarchic societies were common worldwide, and women in
the western world were constantly in debate over the issue. She would like to
believe that gender was a question that affected everyone, irrespective of
race.
The meeting was adjourned.
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