Public Service Amendment Bill [B31-2006]: voting
Public Service and Administration
08 June 2007
Meeting Summary
A summary of this committee meeting is not yet available.
Meeting report
PUBLIC
SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE
8 June 2007
PUBLIC SERVICE AMENDMENT BILL [B31-2006]: VOTING
Chairperson: Mr P
Gomomo (ANC)
Documents handed out:
Public Service
Amendment Bill [B31-2006]
Version 2B: Bill
incorporating proposed amendments
Portfolio Committee
Amendments to Public Service Amendment Bill [B31A-2006]
Public Service
Amendment Bill [B31B-2006]
Proposed amendment
regarding Section 5(8) (Clause 7)
Fraser-Moleketi
speech on Public Service Amendment Bill (Appendix A)
Audio
Recording of the Meeting
SUMMARY
The Enactment Clause, Clauses 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 9, 11, 13, 17, 19, 20, 21,
23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 30, 32, 33, 35, 37, 38, 39, 40, 43 and the Schedule were
agreed to, with amendments.
Clauses 5, 12, 14, 15, 16, 18, 22, 28, 29, 34, 36, 41 and 42 were agreed to,
without amendments.
New Clauses 6, 10 and 31 were agreed to.
The Long Title was agreed to, with amendments discussed during the meeting.
MINUTES
Public Service Amendment Bill
Adv Empie van Schoor (Chief Director: Legal Services - DPSA) went over
the amendments to the draft Bill that were suggested during the Committee’s
previous meeting on 6 June 2007. The latest amendments were included in the
document titled “Version 2B: Bill incorporating proposed amendments” and were
highlighted in purple.
The latest set of amendments were:
Section 2A (a) (page 9) was amended to address COSATU’s concern
that agreements reached through the collective bargaining process would be
circumvented. The State Law Advisor (SLA) suggested the amendment be made at
the beginning and paragraph (2A) (a) (ii) was rephrased to avoid the use of
“subject to” later on in the Bill.
Section 7A (4) (page 24) was amended by substituting the word
“after” for the word “in” to avoid complications for the provinces.
Section 7A (5) (a) (page 25) was amended at the suggestion of
COSATU to make it clear that such functions cannot be assigned to government
components.
Section 7B (1) (iii) (page 29) was amended at the suggestion of
the Committee to include a third category of consultation.
Section 7B (4) (page 29) was amended to substitute the word
“protocol” for the word “charter” and to remove the necessity to consult with
the Minister on the approval of such protocols.
Section 16 (page 44) was amended to use objective rather than
subjective text, to use the word “dismissal” rather than “discharge” and to
reflect the correct cross-references to Clause 12.
Section 16A (4) (page 46) was amended to refer to committees
dealing with matters relating to the Public Service only.
Section 17 (4) (a) (pages 49 and 50) was amended to include
dismissal for abscondment.
Discussion
Adv Van Schoor advised that the SLA had prepared the Portfolio
Committee Amendments to the Public Service Amendment Bill (B31A-2006) for the
Committee to vote on. She mentioned that the Public Service Commission (PSC)
had held discussions with the Department and she asked the PSC to report on the
status of those discussions.
Dr Norman Maharaj (Commissioner – Office of the PSC) confirmed that in order to
seek concurrence, the PSC had met with the SLA and had communicated with the
Department of Public Service and Administration (DPSA). He said that the SLA
and the Department were in the process of attending to the matters raised by
the PSC and that they were very close to reaching agreement. He was unable to
confirm whether agreement had been reached or not.
The Chairperson said that the Committee had given the parties the opportunity
to resolve any disagreements. Being "close" did not mean that
agreement was reached. The Committee was trying to comply with procedures to
enable it to table the Bill in Parliament for its second reading the following
week. If agreement was not reached, the Committee would be unable to do so. He
asked the Director-General of the DPSA for comment.
Prof Richard Levin (Director-General – DPSA) answered that the DPSA’s dilemma
was that although it agreed in principle with what the PSC sought to achieve,
it also noted the legal and constitutional implications that were indicated by
the SLA. He suggested that the best course of action was to proceed with the
review of the A version of the Bill and to provide an opportunity to the SLA to
explain the compromises reached on particular issues. He added that the
Department will tend to follow the SLA’s advice because of the legal challenges
that may arise in future.
Dr Maharaj said that the PSC would accept compromises that were reached because
it had taken serious consideration of the SLA’s advice. The Commission did not
wish to envisage any challenges to the amendments subsequent to their approval
and was sensitive to that. He proposed that any outstanding additional powers
that PSC sought, should be followed up through alternative legislature, such as
the Public Service Act.
Mr Richard Sikakane (ANC) wanted to know what the areas of conflict were that
would prevent the PSC from achieving its objectives.
Mr Kenneth Khumalo (ANC) was concerned about the compromises made between the
DPSA and PSC. He asked if the Bill was going to be legally sensitive or if it
was able to stand the provisions of the Constitution. He did not want a
situation where the Bill was rejected in Parliament. He had raised this issue
on a previous occasion and was given the assurance by both the DPSA and the
PSC, that there was agreement.
Dr Maharaj said there appeared to be a misconception and stated that there was
no disagreement between the DPSA and the PSC. The PSC’s position was based on
what the Chief SLA advised on what can and can not be included in order to
ensure that the Bill would not be referred back. There was no disagreement
between the intentions of the DPSA and the PSC.
Ms V Mentor (ANC) said that she had a fundamental philosophical question about the
spirit and intention of the Amendment Bill but that she would defer her
question to a later stage as she did not wish to bog down the discussion at
this point.
The Chairperson asked the Principal State Law Advisor for his comments and
opinions.
Adv Herman Smuts (Principal State Law Advisor – Office of the Chief State Law
Advisor) confirmed Dr Maharaj’s comments. He said that the SLA, PSC and DPSA
all tried to give effect to what the Constitution tried to achieve and that
there was agreement by the parties on the Amendment Bill. He explained that the
Constitutional Court’s certification judgment related to what direction the
Commission was allowed to give and the challenge was to determine the effect of
the directions that were given. The Constitutional Court was not clear if the
directions were binding on the Administration to which they were given – that
would depend on the relevant legislation. The SLA assumed the Commission’s
directions to be binding and proposed that the Committee consider the provisions
under Section 196(4)(d) of the Constitution, which he read out.
Dr Maharaj explained further that the PSC was limited to give directions on
recruitment, promotions, transfers and dismissals. The Commission thought it
could give directions outside those matters but the SLA disagreed.
Mr Sikakane and Mr Khumalo accepted the explanations given by Adv Smuts and Dr
Maharaj.
Ms Mentor asked how close the proposed amendments to the Bill came to allowing
the Public Service to render a service and still be a development-orientated,
caring and people-orientated organisation. She was concerned over the impact of
HIV/AIDS on the Public Service and in relation to the clauses on incapacity due
to illness and ill-health. She wanted to know if there was recourse for persons
who where dismissed due to abscondment if the abscondment was not intentional.
Mr Gonomo replied that the questions raised by Ms Mentor were explained to the
Committee during previous meetings.
Prof Levin commented that one of the key strategic objectives of the Department
was to achieve compliance with public administration prescripts. The amendments
proposed by the DPSA sought to strengthen the compliance clauses, thereby
assisting the Minister to achieve compliance. The DPSA supported the PSC in
making directions more binding but conceded the difficulties of the
constitutional and legal terrain. He acknowledged that the proposed amendments
were not ideal as Section 196(4)(d) of the Constitution limited what can be
done. Nevertheless, he felt that the proposed amendments would enhance
compliance and result in an improved public administration, particularly in the
fields of personnel administration, employer-employee practices and career
management. The result would be better basic administration, which would
enhance the developmental state. He suggested that the creation of specialized
service delivery units and government components (agencies) would provide
departments with opportunities for enhancing service delivery.
Mr Gonomo remarked that the goal of a single Public Service should be realized
sooner rather than later and agreed that the proposed amendments would take the
Public Service a step closer to where it wanted it to go.
Mr Khumalo asked whether the latest amendments were included in the long title
of the Bill.
Adv Van Schoor replied that the amended long title was included at the end of
the A version (page 23).
Mr Gonomo requested Adv Van Schoor to take the Committee through the Draft
Portfolio Committee Amendments to the Public Service Amendment Bill
[B31A-2006].
Adv Van Schoor explained that the Committee must indicate its comments after
each clause was read. She proceeded to list the amendments to the clauses:
Enactment clause
A technical correction was made - to omit “President” and substitute
“Parliament”. The Committee made no further comment.
Clause 1:
This clause included the definitions. The major change was to change
the word “agency” to “component”.
Mr Sikakane asked what the difference between “agency” and “component” was. Adv
Van Schoor explained that agencies were seen as something outside the Public
Service but in terms of content they were not. The term “components” indicated
that they were included in the Public Service. The Committee made no further
comment.
Clause 2:
Incorporated the issues raised by the South African Police Service
(SAPS) and the appointment of the heads of departments in terms of the
Constitution. The Committee made no further comment.
Clause 3:
Provided for the inclusion of stakeholders in advisory bodies formed by
the Minister and the suggestion made by COSATU that determinations made by the
Minister were subject to the Labour Relations Act and collective agreements.
The Committee made no further comment.
Clause 4:
Substituted the word “agency” with the word “component”. The Committee
made no further comment.
Clause 6:
Made provision for SAMDI to be listed in a schedule to the Act, rather
than in the Act itself. The Committee made no further comment.
Clause 7:
An amendment to Section 5(8) was proposed, following discussions held
between the DPSA, the PSC and the SLA. (This issue was debated earlier in this
meeting). The Committee made no further comment.
Clause 8:
Made provision for the failure to provide documents to be an offence
and included the applicable penalties. Ms M Tlake (ANC) asked if there was a
reason why the amount of the fine was not specified. Adv Van Schoor replied
that the amount of a fine was automatically adjusted in terms of the Adjustment
of Fines Act. The Committee made no further comment.
Clause 9:
Substituted the word “agency” with the word “component” and omitted
subsection (6). The Committee made no further comment.
Clause 10:
Replaced by new Sections 7A and 7B, dealing with Government Components
and specialised service delivery units. Adv Van Schoor noted a correction to
Section 7B (1) (a) (ii) – omit “or a provincial department” as it was covered
in 7B (1) (a) (iii). Ms Mentor asked whether the existing agencies within the
Department were excluded from the Act or if they would be regarded as
components. Adv Van Schoor replied that no definition of these components was
made and that current agencies were not regulated. The executive authority was
not precluded from approaching the Minister to establish it as a component. The
only component proposed by the DPSA was the Centre for Public Service
Innovation but others may be proposed by the Minister, MECs or Premiers. The
Committee made no further comment.
Clause 11:
Technical corrections were made to the clause. The Committee made no
further comment.
Clause 13:
Technical corrections were made to the clause. The Committee made no
further comment.
Clause 17:
Substituted the word “agency” with “component” and the word “discharge”
with “dismissal”. On the recommendation of the SAPS, it was made clear that the
appointment of the Police Commissioner was in terms of the Constitution. The
Committee made no further comment.
Clause 19:
At the suggestion of COSATU, the words “or transfer” was omitted as it
could penalize employees on probation. The Committee made no further comment.
Clause 20:
Provided for consultation prior to mass transfers and made provision
for the new position to be taken into account when employees on probation were
transferred. Committee made no further comment.
Clause 21:
An unnecessary phrase was deleted. Committee made no further comment.
Clause 23:
Technical corrections were made to the clause. The Committee made no
further comment.
Clause 24:
Included a new clause dealing with compliance, the submission of
reports to Parliamentary committees and a proposal by the PSC regarding the
period of notice of resignation in cases where the employee was given notice of
a disciplinary hearing. The Committee made no further comment.
Clause 25:
Dealt with abscondment and made it a form of misconduct. Provision was
also made for reinstatement if there were good grounds for doing so. Ms Mentor
asked whether this would apply to the “free riders” as well. Adv. Van Schoor
asked what was meant by the term “free riders”. Ms Mentor and Mr Khumalo
explained these were people who did not belong to a union and may not agree
with agreements made between the employer and the unions. Adv Van Schoor
pointed out that the proposals made by the unions were submitted to the Committee
for consideration. Mr Gonomo suggested the issue be flagged for later
discussion.
Clause 26:
Dealt with outside remuneration and included the proposals made by
COSATU. The Committee made no further comment.
Clause 27:
Technical corrections were made to the clause. The Committee made no
further comment.
Ms Mentor interjected that the Committee needed to ensure that the law was
applicable to everybody and did not favour the unions.
Clause 30:
Technical corrections were made to the clause and an unnecessary phrase
was omitted. The Committee made no further comment.
Clause 31:
Dealt with the grievances of employees and was redrafted to allow Heads
of Department’s (HODs) to approach the PSC directly as well as ensuring that
all avenues were exhausted to resolve disputes internally before collective
bargaining was resorted to. Mr Sikakane asked why HODs were allowed to approach
the PSC directly, thereby going over the heads of the executive authority. Adv
Van Schoor explained that the executive authority was often the cause of
discontent and that the matter remained unresolved. The HODs did not have carte
blanche as the circumstances in which the PSC may be approached were described.
The Committee made no further comment.
Clause 32:
Technical corrections were made to the clause. The Committee made no
further comment.
Clause 33:
Technical corrections were made to the clause. The Committee made no
further comment.
Clause 35:
Included the provision that the deliberations were subject to the
Labour Relations Act and any collective agreement, placed restrictions on the
employment of temporary personnel and limited the power to authorise deviations
from regulations. The Committee made no further comment.
Clauses 37, 38, 39:
Technical corrections were made to the clauses. The Committee made no
further comment.
Clause 40:
Technical corrections were made to the clause. The Committee made no
further comment.
Clause 43:
Included the corrections made to the short title. The Committee made no
further comment.
Schedule:
The definition of Public Service was amended to include government
components. Technical corrections were made to the clause. The Committee made
no further comment.
Long Title:
The amendments were included in the new long title of the Bill.
Motion of desirability
The Chairperson read the long title of the Bill.
Mr Sikakane proposed that the Committee adopt the amended Bill. Ms Mentor
seconded the proposal. The Chairperson signed the amended Bill.
Adoption of Bill
Adv Van Schoor took the Committee through each clause of the Bill, as
amended.
The Enactment Clause, Clauses 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 9, 11, 13, 17, 19, 20,
21, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 30, 32, 33, 35, 37, 38, 39, 40, 43 and the Schedule
The Chairperson noted that the Committee adopted these clauses, with
amendments.
Clauses 5, 12, 14, 15, 16, 18, 22, 28, 29, 34, 36, 41 and 42
The Chairperson noted that the Committee adopted these clauses, without
amendments.
Clauses 6, 10 and 31
The Chairperson noted that the Committee adopted these new clauses.
Long Title
Adv Van Schoor proposed that the words “to provide for the
implementation of the directions of the Public Service Commission” were
inserted after “…Office of a Premier”;” in line 7 of the amended long title.
The Chairperson noted that the Committee adopted the long title, with
amendments.
The Committee passed the Bill.
Prof Levin thanked the Committee and said the Department was looking forward to
implementing the Bill once it was enacted.
Mr Khumalo, Ms L Maloney and Ms Mentor thanked everybody that was involved with
the amendments to the Bill.
[Members held an off-the-record discussion on the
current strike by Public Service personnel.]
The meeting was adjourned.
Appendix
A:
FRASER-MOLEKETI SPEECH ON PUBLIC SERVICE AMENDMENT BILL
Claims that
the Public Service Amendment Bill, which is aimed at creating a single public
service at national and provincial levels and allows for secondment of
employees, was unconstitutional fell on deaf ears as the ANC used its
parliamentary muscle to pass the controversial Bill yesterday.
Public
Service and Administration Minister Geraldine Fraser-Moleketi dismissed
allegations the Bill was a plot to centralise power. Rather, it was intended to
improve the organisational and human-resource framework of the public service
to enhance the state's capacity to deliver services more effectively, she
maintained. The primary aim of the Bill was to improve the organisational and
human-resource framework for the public service to address obstacles to service
delivery.
The Bill was also aimed at ensuring easier day-to-day administration of the Act by addressing certain legal difficulties, clarifying several provisions, removing obsolete provisions and aligning the Act with other legislation, Fraser-Moleketi said.
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