Women’s Empowerment in State-Owned Enterprises: Department briefing

Meeting report

PUBLIC ENTERPRISES PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE
24 August 2005
WOMEN’S EMPOWERMENT IN STATE-OWNED ENTERPRISES: DEPARTMENT BRIEFING

Acting Chairperson: Ms N Ngcengwane (ANC)

Documents handed out:
Department PowerPoint Presentation on Women’s Empowerment
Department PowerPoint Presentation on Alexkor Report

SUMMARY
The Department of Public Enterprises briefed the Committee on trends and achievements regarding women’s empowerment. Officials outlined the guiding principles and legislative imperatives, strategic objectives, and the oversight responsibility of the Department. They then highlighted trends regarding women’s empowerment in State-owned Enterprises (SOEs). An overall trend of progress was reported for SOEs, particularly with respect to the representation of women in senior and board level positions. There was however a need to address a shortage of women with the requisite technical skills.

The Committee requested that in future, the Department make hardcopies of their presentation available before the actual meeting; that their statistics include the raw figures rather than percentages, and that the impact of HIV/AIDS and achievements regarding disabled women be included in their reports. Members expressed concern about the decline of the number of women undergoing technical training in Transnet; the issue of gender and race ‘fronting’ in SOEs, and the award of contracts to both previously disadvantaged persons and women from rural areas.

The Department further briefed the Committee on land claims and women’s empowerment in Alexkor, with reference to the Committee report that had been released on 16 March 2005. The restitution claim process in the Land Claims Court would resume on October 2005. The Department outlined the measures that had been taken to follow the recommendations of the Committee report.

Members expressed their dissatisfaction that the Department had represented the SOEs during the meeting, as they had expected that each of the SOEs would give their own presentation. The Department explained that they had probably misunderstood a request made in the Committee’s report of 16 March 2005.

MINUTES

Department briefing on SOE women’s empowerment
Ms S Coetzee, Deputy Director-General, briefed the Committee on trends and achievements regarding women’s empowerment. Officials outlined the guiding principles, legislative imperatives, strategic objectives and the oversight responsibility of the Department. The current gender distribution in the Department was almost equal. She highlighted trends regarding women’s empowerment in State Owned Enterprises (SOEs), focusing on women representation in senior and board level positions; procurement; skills development and training; corporate social investment programmes, and their three-year plans for women’s empowerment.

The Department outlined the challenges with respect to women’s empowerment. A standard framework for SOEs reporting was required. The shortage of women with requisite technical skills was reason for concern, and had to be addressed. Training and mentoring of women was crucial in the process of preparing women for management and technical positions

Discussion
The Chairperson requested that in the future, the Department should give Members a hardcopy of their presentation a few days before the actual meeting. Denel had been male-dominated for many years, and it was particularly important that the Department monitored their progress regarding women’s empowerment. She asked whether Eskom’s contracts had also been awarded to women who had been previously disadvantaged. She queried what the reason for the decline of women undergoing technical training in Transnet could be, and what measures the Department was taking to address this problem.

Ms Coetzee agreed to make presentations available before future meetings. The improved legibility of both the hardcopy and PowerPoint presentation would be attended to as well. The Department shared the Chairperson’s concern regarding the decline of women undergoing technical training in Transnet. This deterioration had only recently come to their attention. Transnet was going through a restructuring process. The Department would engage with Transnet on this matter, and determine realistic target levels.

Ms N Tyemzeshe, Transnet General Manager: Human Resources, explained that thus far their training programmes had been quite long with an average of 2.5 years. They had entailed a number of levels and had required specific certifications for each of those levels. They were currently considering reducing the duration of the training period. The entry level for training was being reviewed in order to attract more women. The sponsoring of business units at high school level had led to an increase in external bursaries. In the context of the restructuring process within the business units of Transnet, there had been a moratorium on some of their training programmes. This had been the reason for the decline of women undergoing technical training. They had launched two programmes to address the low percentage of women in technical training.

Mr S Kholwane (ANC) asked how their achievements had benefited disabled women.

Mr C Gololo (ANC) requested that the Department and SOEs included the impact of HIV/AIDS into their reports. He asked how the Department ensured that women in remote areas would also obtain contracts.

Ms Coetzee agreed that their reporting should include the impact of HIV/AIDS and achievements regarding disabled women, and undertook that the Department would provide this information in their next report. The Department would engage with SOEs to improve their reporting regarding women from rural areas that benefited from contracts.

Mr P Hendrickse (ANC) expressed concern about the format of information as presented by the Department. Percentages were meaningless without reference to actual figures, and the latter should thus be included in their reports. He agreed that a standard framework was needed for the reporting of SOEs. The request to make hardcopies available before the actual meeting had already been made in previous years.

Ms Coetzee assured Members that actual figures would be included in their future reporting.

Chief M Nonkonyana asked about the prevalence of fronting. Ms Coetzee was unable to give a firm answer at this time. This Department was, like the Department of Public Works, concerned about this issue and would introduce measures to improve reporting on trends. Thus far, no evidence had come to their attention that fronting was prevalent in any of the SOEs. The reason was probably that the value of the contracts was not very high.

Mr B Matutle, Denel Head of Government and Industry Relations, added that they were presently unable to give detailed information on the issue of fronting. They would submit a comprehensive report to the Committee in this regard.

Mr J Dudlu, Transnet General Manager: Communications, explained that he was also unable to give detailed information at this point in time because Transnet was going through a restructuring process. The Transnet Procurement Unit had set up an advice centre. Transnet was reviewing their procurement policy, aiming to address the fronting issue and making participation as broad as possible. It the past, not only had they had cases of fronting, but also cases of unfair competition. Transnet had a new code of ethics that applied to both the board and members of the executive committee. They had encouraged suppliers to notify them in cases of fraud and malpractice. If a case of fronting were discovered, those responsible would be released from their duties.

Mr B Chinsamy, Denel General Manager: Denel Centre for Learning and Development explained that Denel’s current priority was to improve their financial situation. They would post another substantial loss this year. There may thus be a decrease in contracts offered to women’s empowerment groups in comparison to previous years. As soon as Denel turned around, they would increase their expenditure on women’s empowerment. Denel was a white male dominated company. It was difficult to attract participants for their bursary programmes. They currently had 133 women bursars for engineering. The latter amounted to an expenditure of R2.4 million. He pointed out that the best apprentice in the previous year had been a black woman. In the Denel Youth Foundation Training Programme, 134 out of the 400 learners were women. For the first time, these learners represented all provinces. They also had school outreach programmes. It was mandatory that 50% of the pupils that participated in these programmes were female. They were optimistic about the turnaround of Denel.

Mr Hendrickse commented that they had been very impressed with Denel’s training programmes during their visit earlier this year. Members were concerned about the statement made in the presentation that their restructuring process might result in job losses and limited black economic empowerment. The statement that Denel would focus on profits until they had improved their financial situation seemed to imply that women and black economic empowerment was an expense rather than an investment.

Chief Nonkonyana expressed concern about Denel’s lack of female representation during the present meeting. Mr Matutle replied that other important meetings had prevented Denel’s female managers from attending this meeting.

Mr Hendrickse stressed that he would have preferred separate presentations from each of the SOEs.

Department briefing on Alexkor report
Mr C Letsoalo, Chief Director, briefed the Committee on land claims and women’s empowerment at Alexkor, with reference to the Committee report that had been released on 16 March 2005. The negotiations instituted by the government with the aim to avoid a prolonged court process had been unsuccessful. The restitution claim process in the Land Claims Court would resume in October 2005.

In the Alexkor report, Members had expressed concern about the lack of participation of women in Alexkor’s projects; the lack of participation of women in decision-making; the lack of openness and transparency in their financial statements; women failing to benefit financially from their projects; the lack of technical capacity in women groups, and that the behaviour of subcontractors had not been in line with the objectives of the project. The Department briefed Members on what measures had been taken to implement their recommendations. Their concerns had been attended to.

Discussion
Dr P Rabie (DA) queried how many women’s groups were involved in their projects.

Mr Mdaka, Acting CEO: Alexkor, replied that he was unable to give exact numbers at this point in time.

Dr Rabie remarked that it was important that the women’s groups consisted of representatives of all the communities within the greater Alexkor area.

Mr Hendrickse asked who had decided that the Department would speak on behalf of the SOEs during this presentation.

Mr Letsoalo answered that the Department had decided about the format of this presentation with reference to the Committee report of 16 March 2005. They had understood that the Department would have to brief the Committee on progress and represent the SOEs. The land claims issue had also been addressed during this meeting.

Mr Hendrickse highlighted that the present meeting specifically aimed to focus on women’s empowerment.

Ms Coetzee added that the Department’s intention was not to take over the functions of the SOEs. Their role was different. The Department had probably misinterpreted the Committee’s instructions.

The Chairperson added that she had also not expected that the Department would represent the SOEs during this meeting.

Mr Hendrickse was pleased about Alexkor’s activities and achievements. Members had to rethink the privatisation of Alexkor. He asked how much women had earned since November last year, stressing that there had been complaints from their side. The Department had pointed out that Alexkor did not have immediate access to the financial records of the previous contractor. He asked whether they had legal grounds to get access to those records. Mr Letsoalo replied that they did not have any legal grounds at this stage.

Mr Hendrickse remarked that the empowerment groups had complaint about the fact that they did not know how much they were mining. He asked why there was still no final contract.

Mr Mdaka answered that there had been disagreement about the sharing of the proceeds of mining between the contractors and the empowerment group. This issue had been resolved for the first phase of exploration. The women had accepted the share that had been allocated to them. The contractor provided the equipment. The following phases still required arrangements between the two parties. Disagreement among the women themselves had also contributed to delays. The issue of shareholding was contentious, as it was difficult to allocate shares. Alexkor would assist the women’s groups, but they had to make the final decision. He would soon be meeting a leader of the empowerment group to clear up some of the issues.

Chief Nonkonyana asked why they had appointed a new legal team, what the gender representation was of that team, and whether the latter was their defence team against the community.

Mr Letsoalo explained that the Constitutional Court had ruled in favour of the community in 2003, and then referred the case to the Land Claims Court. It was the responsibility of the latter to rule what the community was entitled to. Government had started negotiations to avoid a prolonged court process, but no agreement had been reached. Government was defending itself against the community who had laid a claim against them. The outcome of this court case was important as it would set a precedent for other land claim cases.

He further replied that, unfortunately, there were no women in Advocate Grobler’s legal team. Mining had been a male-dominated area. Competent advocates for such cases were mostly white men. They had been advised that Advocate Grobler was the best person to assist in the case. Grobler had decided upon his team himself.

Mr Kholwane commented that it was suspected that certain individuals were working behind the community for their own interests. He expressed concern about what would happen to the services that Alexkor had been providing to the community if those individuals won the case. Government and Alexkor were also defending the interests of the community. Alexkor was the only institution that provided those services.

Mr Letsoalo answered that, unfortunately, the land claim had been instituted by the community and not by individuals. Alexander Bay would not exist without Alexkor. The reason why they were defending themselves so much in this case was that they wanted to protect the delivery of Alexkor’s services.

Mr Hendrickse stressed that Alexkor should not be privatised. Part of the problem was that the government opposed the community’s land claim. Therefore, a position of distrust had developed. The community did not believe that the government shared their interests. The Department would hopefully be able to reach an agreement with those communities.

Mr Kholwane asked whether they had other projects to address women’s empowerment besides those pointed out in their presentation. Mr Mdaka replied that the empowerment of women was not just based on these specific projects. Women empowerment was a strategic objective of the company.

Chief Nonkonyana expressed concern about the measures undertaken to improve the technical capacity of women. Mr Mdaka answered that the technical capacity of women was one of their performance objectives. Many women were involved in Alexkor’s mining activities. They had training programmes for women. Young trainees with engineering skills were in management positions. They were currently considering appointing a professional woman to a vacant national management position. It was a major challenge for Alexkor to attract young women and men due to the outlying geographic position of Alexander Bay.

Ms Angel, Eskom MD: External Relations was impressed about the potential that a concerted effort by the Department, the Committee, and SOEs could have. They had to complement each other. As an entity, they could achieve much in specific geographical areas. A national agenda was needed that addressed South African challenges.

The Chairperson asked how many women from the rural areas benefited from their programmes. It would be useful if the Department could provide figures for each province.

Mr N Nkosi, Eskom Chief Operations Manager: Corporate Social Investment, answered that in the Eastern Cape about 68 women had benefited from economic development, and 173 women had received funding for social development. He suggested sending their Corporate Social Investment (CSI) report to the Committee for further details about their projects. Eskom had biased projects in rural areas that were run by women. He invited the Committee to visit their projects.

Ms Letlape commented that Eskom had graduate engineers in training. Out of 200 trainees, 89 were women. 60% of those female trainees were young black women. The challenge was that their projects were situated in rural areas. Many young people, however, preferred working in cities such as Johannesburg, Pretoria or Cape Town. Money was in contrast not an issue, as they remunerated their trainees well. They had granted 1374 scholarships and bursaries to university students. 62% of those students were women, out of which 49% were black women. They believed that they were making a difference. She invited Members to visit any of their school projects.

Mr H Bekker (IFP) asked whether progress had been made regarding subcontracting meter reading, and whether women’s groups had received some of these jobs. There was a tremendous need for Eskom in this regard. In certain areas, meter reading was practically collapsing.

Ms Letlape replied that in certain areas technicians had been assaulted when they had tried to read the meters. They would address this issue during a meeting in the following week. They had started to install prepaid meters in order to tackle the problem of violence.

Ms P Langa, Deputy Director: Socio-economics, suggested that Transnet also forward their CSI report to the respective constituencies.

The meeting was adjourned.