Minister of Police Executive Undertaking on 30 May 2023

Meeting report

Opening comments

The Chairperson greeted and welcomed all. She noted this meeting was postponed last week because the Deputy Minister and Minister were both committed. The meeting was now occurring today.

Deputy Minister of Police Opening Remarks

Mr Cassel Mathale, Deputy Minister of Police, apologised for postponing the previous meeting - this was not personal, as the Minister had to attend to an emergency matter. The Minister could not attend the meeting today due to unforeseen circumstances. He thanked the Committee for their understanding.

He handed over to the National Commissioner of the SAPS, General Fannie Masemola, who led the presentation on the Executive Undertaking, after greeting everyone present.

Implementation of Executive Undertakings, made by the Minister of Police in the NCOP plenary on 30 May 2023

During the National Council of Provinces (NCOP) Plenary, on 30 May 2023, the Minister of Police made a total number of 10 undertakings. The purpose of this presentation is to provide the Select Committee on Petitions and Executive Undertakings with timeframes and plans, within which the Executive Undertakings, will be implemented.

These undertakings related to budgets, specialised tracking teams, new police trainees, reenlistment, grey listing, ballistics and chemistry samples, new forensic laboratory in Gqeberha and refurbishing the one in KZN, aerial vehicles, procurement of vehicles, building police stations, capacitation of frontline services.

See attached for further details of undertakings and implementation.

Discussion:

The Chairperson asked if Deputy Minister Mathale wanted to give comment before she opened the floor for questions.

The Deputy Minister said he had no comment to give, only to thank the Committee for allowing them to present.

Lt Gen Shadrack Sibiya, Deputy National Commissioner: Detectives, pointed out the SAPS could not provide details of Flight 9 tracking teams. He confirmed that there were tracking teams available in each province that were fully operational.

Mr R Badenhorst (DA, Western Cape) asked what was the reason for the underspending under J(6) in the presentation. He understood that National Treasury had placed a moratorium on hiring new staff a few months ago across all departments. How would staffing work with the building of the new police stations? How would the moratorium impact this?

Ms S Shaikh (ANC, Limpopo) was grateful for the presentation. She asked if former members of the Detective Services were included in the moratorium. How many former members had been appointed, and would they be affected by the austerity measures in place?

She appreciated the progress reported by the Department, especially on the issue of Gender-Based Violence and Femicide (GBVF) where they increased the SAPS forensic footprint (especially in the Northern Cape).

So far, KZN has indicated the challenges they faced regarding public works. [interrupted connection]. She acknowledged the intervention done by the National Commissioner and the National Department of Public Works and Infrastructure (DPWI). Did the Department have reasons for not making submissions on time?

Would the delivery of vehicles amounting to R981 000 000 be completed within the current financial year? When would said vehicles be delivered? Vehicles have been an issue because of limited resources.

Regarding the Construction Projects in Limpopo particularly - were they still on track with the completion due date of 30 November 2023? Would the timelines be met for the interim police stations? Would they be affected by the austerity measures?

The Chairperson pointed out that Ms Shaikh’s network was very unstable. She handed over to the Department for responses.

Responses

General Masemola responded, saying the construction of police stations was at various stages. The process of delivery from service providers varied from one to the other, and this led to the underspending.

Hiring new staff would certainly be affected by the austerity measures in place, especially for Police Act personnel. They would continue to employ police officers as National Treasury did not bar SAPS from doing so. The limited car budget of R2 200 000 000 would present challenges and affect the numbers. This would affect the National Police Act members as there were insufficient funds.

The process of enlisting 400 detectives was currently underway. Last year, they had allocated 600 detectives. This year they were training over 1 000 new detectives and this would increase the numbers.

Major General Puleng Dimpane, Chief Financial Officer (CFO), SAPS, responded on delivery of vehicles - they anticipated 100% delivery of vehicles by March 2024. Not many obstacles would prevent such a goal from being achieved. They were hopeful they would be able to pay the bill for the vehicles by the end of the financial year.

The austerity measures would not affect the construction and completion date much. The dates were monitored closely and they anticipated reaching their target by the deadline. The budget cuts would still affect them (as covered earlier).

Further discussion

Mr Badenhorst asked for clarity as he was still confused by General Masemola's answer on staffing under the moratorium; were they just building something that would stand empty, given there was no staff to occupy the new stations? Would there be enough staff for the buildings?

Ms Shaikh [unstable network] asked about the forensic science laboratory in KZN - did Public Works provide reasons for the delays?

General Masemola responded saying when the Department received the budget, some of the projects to build new police stations were already in place. They were at construction phase and would like to proceed. The projects that had not yet begun with the building process were discontinued to save costs. Once the building was complete, they would allocate personnel accordingly. They could not leave these buildings unoccupied. In a nutshell, the budgets came right in the middle of the projects being operational, and they tried to save on costs. Hopefully, National Treasury would assist in finances; they were unclear about whether the austerity measures would continue in the next financial year.

He could not understand Ms Shaikh’s question due to her poor network, but if she was asking about the progress made, DPWI and SAPS had incorrectly identified a building. They had since decided to use the Durban Central Police Station as a laboratory which would be the small laboratory, and this was currently underway. They were finalising the process of building the permanent laboratory in Pinetown, which would be the large laboratory. This was similar to Tshwane, where they had a laboratory in Arcadia and a laboratory in Silverton that would complement one another.

Major General Dimpane added that they were awaiting a feasibility analysis report from SAPS.

Closing comments

The Chairperson thanked everyone for their time and participation and appreciated the presentation. SAPS had procured 32 remote-piloted aircraft systems and the new laboratory in Gqeberha. There was progress and they hoped the construction would be finalised.

The meeting was adjourned.