Ministerial, and Governance and Administration Cluster department's briefings on structure, programmes and key issues

Meeting report

Chairperson’s opening remarks
The Chairperson observed that the Governance and Administration Cluster comprised of various Portfolio Committees, including those on Public Service and Administration, Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Women, Youth, Children and Persons with Disabilities, the Standing Committee on the Auditor-General and the Standing Committee on Private Members’ legislative proposals. It was critical for these Committees to integrate their work to enhance Parliament's ability to meaningfully exercise oversight over the entire governance and administration Cluster of departments.

Briefing by the Minister of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs Mr Sicelo Shiceka
Hon Sicelo Shiceka, Minister of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs, expressed his appreciation that Parliament was beginning to take the issue of clustering in a serious manner. When he had taken part in previous discussions around these issues, it had been decided to leave the sectoral Committees as they were, and to strengthen the Clusters. It was also agreed that the cluster system must not be an informal arrangement, and it had to be part of the programme of Parliament.

He noted that with the new administration, the Executive and the Portfolio Committees had been reconfigured. The Executive therefore accepted that its approach must depart from “business as usual”. The latest restructuring was informed by the need to strengthen the weaknesses of the past in all the structures of government and Cabinet, in an attempt to improve the whole system of government so that it functioned better in future, and ensured that taxpayers obtained value for money.

He said that it was also important for departments to consider their expected turnaround times. He illustrated this by saying that if an ambulance was called out to a rural area, the public should be aware of the expected time that should be taken to respond to the call, so that there was a proper contract and understanding between the public and the service providers. If the ambulance did not arrive at the designated time, the citizen should have right of recourse. Similarly, a person applying for an identity document should know what the turnaround time would be. This was also applicable to services at hospitals, clinics and other service providers. Government should therefore be able to deal with all matters based on what it said in advance that it would do.

These were radical moves intended to revamp the system of government in ways that would benefit South Africans. This was still work-in-progress, which would result in changes in government strategies for improving service delivery.

The Minister concluded by saying that in future there had to be a way of ensuring that Ministers accounted to Parliament, recognising Parliament’s key role in passing legislation and exercising oversight over the functions of the Executive. He felt that Ministers should be leading the budget in Parliament, leading the introduction of legislation, and the presentation of annual reports in Parliament. The President had noted that Parliament had to be strong and bring the Executive to account.

Presentation by Director General of Department of Public Service and Administration (DPSA)
Professor Richard Levin, Director General, Department of Public Service and Administration, mentioned that his presentation was structured in line with the brief given to him by the Parliamentary staff. His presentation would focus on the structure of the governance and administration cluster; and describe the progress achieved thus far in the implementation of the Programme of Action (POA). He would also identify some key issues affecting the governance and administration cluster (the cluster), and the cluster would also present a governance barometer.

Professor Levin outlined the structure of the governance and administration cluster. The Chairperson was from the Department of Home Affairs (DHA) whilst the Deputy Chair was from the Department of Public Service and Administration (DPSA). It comprised the Minister of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs (COGTA), the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development, the Minister of Finance and the Minister in the Presidency responsible for Performance Monitoring, Evaluation and Administration.

An initial presentation outlining the governance and administration cluster's Plan of Action (POA) had been made to the Portfolio Committee on 16 September 2009. A cluster presentation, on progress in implementing the POA, had then been made to the Governance and Administration Cabinet Committee, on 27 October 2009. Cluster reports were considered by Cabinet on 4 November 2009. Currently the POA was derived from the Medium Term Strategic Framework (MTSF) priorities, based on a number of key objectives and established programmes of action. The Minister of COGTA had clarified, during a recent media briefing, that there would be changes in the way that monitoring, reporting and even establishing the POA would be done in the new year. In future, the outlook for outcomes and impact would change, with a greater focus on the rationale and impact of the actions taken by government. For this reason, the governance barometer would be presented at the end of the briefings, to show the differences in outcomes.

Professor Levin then highlighted the main components of the POA to the Committee (see attached slide presentation). The POA was geared towards establishing the capacity for planning and monitoring and evaluating at the centre of government, strengthening human resource capacity, leadership management development programmes, improved financial management, and local government capacity building. Important aspects of the Thusong service centres, the implementation of the Promotion of Access to Information Act (PAIA) and the Promotion of Administrative Justice Act (PAJA) and the strengthening democratic institutions were highlighted. Professor Levin also explained that the next series of slides portrayed particular targets that had been set and the progress that had been achieved in relation to these targets.

Briefing by Director-General of Department of Home Affairs (DHA)
Mr Mavuso Msimang, Director General, Department of Home Affairs, gave a presentation on the key issues affecting the DHA. Mr Msimang submitted that his Department was committed to repositioning itself as a key enabler of national goals relating to security, development and nation building. The DHA’s turnaround strategy included anti-corruption measures, a campaign aimed at valuing and protecting identity and citizenship, and the phasing out of late registration of births by the year 2011. The DHA was initiating discussions with labour, business and other departments to develop policies on economic migrants. It was also undertaking a comprehensive review of permit policies.

Briefing on the restructuring of National Government and the implementation of Occupation Specific Dispensation (OSD)
Professor Levin submitted that the restructuring of national government had meant there had been a need to create some new departments by mergers, such as the Department of Tourism and Environmental Affairs, as well as split other departments into two separate entities, such as the Department of Education, which had now been split into two departments to deal with basic and higher education. A number of functions had also needed to be transferred where departments had been split. All of this required substantial technical work, including drafting Presidential proclamations, and identifying staff and assets to be transferred. Most of the baseline work, including the conditions for effecting the necessary transfers, had been completed. Organisational structures had been developed for the for new and reconfigured departments, and the resources for transfer had been identified. The final step would be the legal transfer of functions. A substantial amount of work had gone into this, and the conditions were set for these departments to be fully functional in the next financial year.

Professor Levin then described the Occupation Specific Dispensation (OSD). This had not been without its challenges, which related to the correction, interpretation and application of the dispensation. However, the successful implementation of OSD had heralded a new era and was already resulting in positive relations between employers and labour unions. He tabled a report indicating the status of OSD implementation across various professions in the public service. [See attached document for full details].

Presentation by Acting Director-General of the Department of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs (DCOGTA)
Mr Elroy Afrika, Acting Director General, Department of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs, presented the State of Local Government Report. He detailed the assessments that had been undertaken between April and August 2009, and noted that these had led to the compilation of a consolidated national report and an overview report on the state of Local Government. This report analysed the root causes of the dysfunctionality in the local government sphere, and suggested a framework for changes to the system of local government.[See attached document for full details].

The presentation also focused on the local government turnaround strategy, which had been discussed at the local government indaba in October 2009. This turnaround strategy would be submitted to Cabinet for approval by December, and would then be discussed in municipalities from January to March 2010.

Mr Afrika then gave a briefing on Operation Clean Audit 2014. This was aimed at addressing audit management challenges in provincial departments and municipalities, and focused on audit findings and queries from the Auditor-General. It also touched on revenue enhancement and debt collection. A draft strategy had been propelled by a steering committee comprising DCOGTA, National Treasury, South African Local Government Association (SALGA) and local municipalities.

Mr Afrika then briefed the Committee on the cluster’s Anti-corruption Capacity Building Programme, and progress on the implementation of a Corruption Management Information System (CMIS) and an Integrity Management Framework (IMF) to deal with gaps in the finalisation of the conflict of interest measures.

The presentation also gave details of the concept of the Single Public Service. He noted that legislation to implement this had initially been introduced in Parliament in June 2008. However, it was withdrawn in November 2008, so that further consultations could take place.

Mr Afrika then presented a status report on Thusong Centres, community development workers (CDWs) and the progress achieved thus far to promote job access and gender equality through a job access strategic framework for persons with disabilities, and a gender equality strategic framework.

The last part of the of the presentation gave statistics in terms of audit outcomes and related indicators of performance across various governance spheres.[see attached document for details].

Minister’s concluding remarks
Minister Shiceka stressed the point that government was all about people. This meant that government intended to change the way in which it undertook matters, and would start to involve people more, through participatory democracy. It recognised that South Africans who were the recipients of services should not be regarded as mere spectators who simply waited for government to come and deliver services, but must play a greater role.

The Minister noted that the cluster also wanted to make government into an employer of choice. This required improvement of the terms and conditions of service, to attract more people into the public service. Government had to study what attracted people into employment in different sectors, and apply the findings to the public service, to ensure that the public sector would be offering more appropriate benefits. The view that the private sector could not compete with government was not true. There was a tendency to look at this issue in a narrow way, which did not look at expanding remuneration by way of benefits. The Minister affirmed that government, during the current administration's tenure, would soon become the employer of choice.

Discussion
Mr S Litho (ANC) thanked the Minister for his input, which he said laid the ground for good discussion. He took issue with the fact that the presentation on OSD had omitted to report on the progress of OSD implementation for the South African Police Service (SAPS) and those working in education, and questioned why these facts had been omitted.

Mr E Nyekemba (ANC) followed up on Mr Litho’s question on the OSD and he expressed the hope that the response would assist Members, who were often asked by their constituents, particularly teachers, the police and nurses, what was happening with OSD.

 Mr Litho commented on the turnaround of the public service, expressing his fear that officials in government departments would 'turn around until they were dizzy'. He expressed unhappiness over the reports of corruption in the public service, and noted that the report provided did not say much about the numbers of cases prosecuted, or what other outcomes there had been. He urged the responsible Ministers to act strongly, to ensure that government did not continue to harbour law breakers in the civil service. He noted that senior managers could use various anti-corruption tools, and he urged them to use these effectively to rid the public service of the scourge of corruption.
 
Mr Nyekemba asked what had been done with those matters in which the heads of department had not followed up on cases of corruption. He pointed out that heads of department had a responsibility to investigate issues and take appropriate action, otherwise resources would be wasted.

Mr Nxesi also expressed great concern about the lack of concrete action against corrupt government officials, some of whom were very senior officials, who seemed to be getting away with misconduct, without any discipline or sanction. He was particularly concerned where this misconduct related to audit issues, and felt that something more definite should be done than merely speaking of “improvements”.

Minister Shiceka responded that Parliamentarians must ensure that departments gave them “real time” information. Many problems arose through inaccurate information being provided, and then used as the basis for decisions. During the assessment processes, it had been discovered that some staff tended to produce favourable reports, from the luxury of their offices, that did not reflect the reality on the ground. Honest information must be provided. He added that Parliament should also ensure that departments were called to account on implementation plans. Often, there were laws and policies in place, but lack of implementation was the problem. This was particularly true in relation to disclosure of outside interests by civil servants. He asked Premiers to explain what they had done about the report from the Auditor-General on conflict of interest, since a person choosing to become a public servant should not be running businesses or having other business interests simultaneously.

Mr Nyekemba requested clarity on the draft legislation for the single public service. He noted that this had apparently been brought to Parliament, but was then withdrawn for further consultation at the National Economic Development and Labour Council (NEDLAC), and he wondered why this had been done.

Minister Shiceka explained that it had emerged that there had not been sufficient consultation before tabling the legislation before Parliament. For instance, SALGA had not been engaged with fully, and since this bordered on SALGA’s domain, they should have been more involved in the process.

Mr T Nxesi (ANC) asked if there were any discussions talking place between the Ministers involved in security issues and Home Affairs. There had been widespread reports that South Africa’s borders were too porous, and some were not even guarded. He noted that drug trafficking and human trafficking had become an international scourge, and would be heightened by the upcoming 2010 World Soccer Cup, with the distinct possibility of young people being lured to South Africa to be exploited as prostitutes.

Minister Shiceka responded that the key departments required resources to carry out their functions, and that funding would need to be made available to the DHA, to enable it to address many of these problems.

Mr Msimang added that there was co-operation with other departments in the Security cluster on these issues. Department of Home Affairs took part in the Justice, Crime Prevention and Security Cluster (JCPS), which had held several meetings to discuss the issues now flagged by the Committee. The cluster met frequently to exchange notes and to discuss common strategies to combat specific types of crime, which would include human trafficking, especially in anticipation of the World Cup risks.

Mr Nxesi also referred to the leadership and management programmes mentioned in the presentations, and asked for clarification as to what the obstacles and problems were that had led to a backlog in training. He also enquired if any training was outsourced. He further asked that a brief assessment of the institution to be provided.

Mr Nxesi commented that the President had announced job creation as one of the government’s key priorities. He therefore asked departments to indicate where government services were outsourced, how jobs that were outsourced were quantified, and how this reconciled to the priority of job creation.

Mr Nxesi asked which of the national departments had not been reported on, and why this had not been done, as the absence of facts led to the undesirable situation where assumptions and inferences would be drawn.

Mr Robert Shaw, Chief Director, DPSA, responded that the relationship between municipalities and National government, in terms of human resources management, had been dealt with in part by the Minister's comments on the need for a single public service. A fundamental objective of an integrated public service, as emphasised by the Minister, was to ensure that there was a common system, for a common skills audit, where all tiers of government worked closely together. This was the ideal system to be implemented.

Ms M Mohale (ANC) commented on the issue of tenders, expressing her concern that there were no time frames given by when the tender processes should be resolved. She enquired as to the causes of delay in these tender processes, and asked whether there were policies or legislation in place indicating how tenders should be handled.

Minister Shiceka responded that some of these problems were created when municipal managers and councillors abused their power, taking over functions and roles that they were not legally mandated to do. This was why he had made reference to the importance of legislation, and the need for Parliament to examine such issues more closely, since around 60% of their problems arose from failure to implement legislation correctly.

Ms Mohale also questioned the priorities for training needs in the public service, and what measures were used to determine success of training. She was not convinced that percentages on targets could give the true picture, and asked that instead, actual figures should be provided to indicate the extent of the problems, since percentages alone did not give an indication whether progress was deemed to be sufficient. Ms Mohale commented that the public service would see a great deal of improvement if the departments dealt diligently with training and skills development. She also expressed dissatisfaction about the lack of clear links between the reported results and targets for employment equity.

Ms Mohale asked what monitoring and evaluation measures were in place to assess the Thusong Centres, and what the DHA was doing to ensure that the problems currently experienced would be solved.

Mr Msimang responded that the DHA had also held its own discussions concerning poor service delivery by departmental employees, was keenly aware of the problems, and was instituting measures to deal with requirements such as all staff having to wear name tags. Corruption was known to be another problem, so DHA was putting in place systems that would make it very difficult for corruption to occur or for certain information to be accessed without permission or reason. DHA was also concerned about the lack of information on the number of undocumented or foreign nationals living illegally in South Africa. This was a really large problem. Current systems were having to be resolved to prevent the risk of break-ins to the population register for the purpose of illegally accessing social benefits such as social welfare or pension programmes. One of the major problems arose through late registrations of birth, which created difficulties later in authenticating claims by applicants. There was a need to strengthen the verification systems to prevent identity fraud. DHA also intended to implement a turnaround strategy for the processing of documents – such as a 40 day turnaround period for identity documents.

A Member expressed concern whether local government had the ability to run its own finances. He pointed out various instances of financial irregularities and mismanagement in some municipalities. The Member asked if National government could intervene in the administrative function of local and provincial authorities, to boost their capacity for financial management.

Minister Shiceka commented that it would be unconstitutional for National government to take over an executive role that should be undertaken by local government. The Constitution provided for three recognised and distinct spheres of government. That was the reason for proposing the single and integrated public service, since one of the benefits would be that it could ensure an efficient system of government.

The meeting was adjourned