Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised Hansard
House: National Council of Provinces
Date of Meeting: 19 Mar 2024
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
TUESDAY, 19 MARCH 2024
PROCEEDINGS OF NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Watch video here: Plenary
The Council met at 14:06.
The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
VIRTUAL SITTING RULES
(Announcement)
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon delegates, before we proceed, I would like to remind delegates of the Rules relating to the virtual and hybrid meeting and sitting, in particular, sub-Rules 21, 22 and 23 of Rule 103 which provides as follows.
The virtual sitting constitutes a sitting of the National Council of Provinces. Delegates in the sitting enjoy the same powers and privileges that apply in the sitting of the Council. For purposes of the quorum, all delegates who are logged on the virtual platform shall be considered present. Delegates must switch on their video if they want to speak, and they should ensure that the microphones on their gadgets are muted and must remain muted unless they are permitted to speak. All delegates may participate in the discussion through the chat room.
In addition, I would like to remind delegates that the interpretation facility is active. Permanent delegates, members of the executive, special delegates and the SA Local Government Association, Salga, representatives on the platform are requested to ensure that the interpretation facilities on their electronic devices are properly activated to facilitate access to the interpretation services.
Hon members, before we proceed, I would like to welcome all permanent delegates, MECs, all special delegates and Salga representatives to the House.
Hon delegates, I will now allow an opportunity for delegates to give notices of motion. We have 20 minutes in total for
notices of motion and motions without notice. Delegates can raise their hands because this is a full virtual sitting. They can raise their hands if they have any notices of motions.
NOTICES OF MOTIONS
Ms M L MOSHODI: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the Council debates the development of mechanisms geared at ensuring that the laws of the country are observed in the employment of foreign nationals.
Ms M L MAMAREGANE: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the Council debates ways to increase support for the tourism sector, including cultural tourism to boost the country’s job creation capacity.
Ms N NDONGENI: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the Council debates the mechanisms to intensify efforts geared at reducing the high dropout and repetition rates at South Africa’s public schools.
Mr D R RYDER: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the Council debates the lack of co-operation and co- ordination between the three spheres of government which has resulted in water outages in the Johannesburg Metropolitan Municipal area which lasted for a number of days.
LABOUR LAW AUTHORITIES CHECK LAWS ADHERENCE
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M I RAYI: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:
That the Council—
(1) notes that the Department of Employment and Labour, working with other law enforcement agencies, conducted a three-day blitz inspection in Rustenburg in the North West, which started on Monday, 11 March 2024;
(2) understands that the inspections' main purpose was to test the level of compliance in terms of labour laws such as the Occupational Health and Safety Act, Basic Conditions of Employment Act, Unemployment Insurance Act, Unemployment Insurance Contribution Act and others;
(3) believes that there is a growing tendency to contravene South Africa’s labour laws by certain employers in South Africa, as evidenced in the increasing number of arrests of employed undocumented immigrants, illegal trading and selling of adulterated food in townships and villages;
(4) understands that the blitz inspection resulted in the issuing of over 50 contravention notices and compliance orders against noncompliant employers in Rustenburg in the North West; and
(5) encourages more of this kind of operation to be continuously held all over the country to ensure that employers adhere to South Africa’s rules and regulations.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
SOUTH AFRICA IMPORTS WATER ABROAD
(Draft Resolution)
Ms S SHAIKH: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:
That the Council—
(1) welcomes the signing of a memorandum of understanding by the Minister of Water and
Sanitation, Senzo Mchunu with his Zimbabwean counterpart, Dr Anxious Masuka, for the sale of treated water from Zimbabwe to the border town in northern Limpopo, on Thursday, 14 March 2024;
(2) notes that the bilateral agreement signed by both Ministers will result in the supply of about
15 million cubic metres per annum of treated water from the Beitbridge Water Treatment Works in Zimbabwe to the Musina Local Municipality through a 20km pipeline;
(3) also notes that the project will benefit a population of about 132000 people residing in 192 villages and one town, which is Musina;
(4) reckons that Musina is experiencing a dry season with limited sources of safe drinkable water, with the community mainly relying on boreholes for supply;
(5) believes that the availability of water resources to be used to support various socioeconomic activities and for domestic use;
(6) also believes that this project will assist a great deal in alleviating the communities in Musina from the hardships and difficulties of accessing water, especially clean and drinkable water; and
(7) commends the South African government for the bold step in ensuring that Musina and its surrounding villages are prioritised with the provision of water infrastructure to ensure the availability of clean and drinkable water.
Motion objected.
POLICE OFFICERS NAB POLICE KILLER
(Draft Resolution)
Mr E M MTHETHWA: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:
That the Council—
(1) commends the multidisciplinary team of police for swiftly responding and tracking down a suspected police killer at Clermont informal settlement in Durban;
(2) notes that the police officer from the Durban Central SA Police Service, SAPS, and his colleague from KwaDabeka SAPS were off duty when attacked in their vehicle;
(3) also notes that one of the policemen was killed before he was robbed of his firearm, while his colleague who was also robbed of his firearm was left unharmed;
(4) understands that an around the clock police investigation began after the shooting and police received information that one of the killers was at an informal settlement in Clermont;
(5) also understands that the suspect, who is in his 30s, was killed during a shootout with the police officers in Clermont on Monday, 11 March 2024;
(6) believes that police are key in the security and safety of our nation as well as the maintenance of law and order;
(7) also believes that the attack on the police is an attack on the state; and
(8) calls for the tightening of measures geared at combating police attacks to protect law enforcement agencies in the execution of their duties.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONDOLENCES ON THE PASSING OF EFF’S COUNCILLOR PULANE MPHOLO
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M S MOLETSANE: Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the EFF:
That the Council—
(1) notes with sympathy the passing of Councillor Pulane Mpholo, who died on the 11 March 2024;
(2) further notes that the late Pulane Mpholo, was a proportional representative, PR, councillor for the EFF in Nala Municipality and was also a dedicated member of the Lejweleputswa regional command team;
(3) acknowledges that she was a fearless economic freedom fighter, an unflinching revolutionary and a leader whose life was dedicated to tirelessly serving our people and movement;
(4) further acknowledges her contribution in Nala Municipality, which was crucial in growing the EFF’s support base, as well as building structures and recruiting members in her community;
(5) recognises that she leaves behind her husband and three children and will be laid to rest this coming Sunday,
24 March 2024; and
(6) the EFF sends its heartfelt condolences to her friends, family and community of Nala and may her soul rest in peace!
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
GOVERNMENT COMMEMORATES DEATH OF KING DINUZULU KACETSHWAYO 110TH ANNIVERSARY
(Draft Resolution)
Ms L C BEBEE: Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:
That the Council –
(1) notes that the government, on the 16 March 2024, held an event to mark the 110th Commemoration of King Dinuzulu kaCetshwayo in KwaZulu-Natal province;
(2) also notes that King Dinuzulu kaCetshwayo ruled the Zulu nation from a young age during a difficult period when the Zulu nation was under siege from colonial rule;
(3) further notes and recognises that King Dinuzulu’s valiant fight against colonialism, wherein he defended the land with his life; and
(4) commends the government for recognising the legacy of King Dinuzulu and its continued importance in the nation’s history.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
DA’S CONCERN OVER RAW UNTREATED SEWAGE RELEASED INTO RIVERS
(Draft Resolution)
Ms C VISSER: Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the DA:
That the Council—
(1) notes with concern that South Africans must be aware of the reality that 7 billion litres of raw untreated sewage is daily released into our rivers;
(2) further notes that an independent scientific investigation should be done to determine the root cause of toxic pollution and measures to stop it;
(3) acknowledges the rapid change and regression of the Vaal River, now one of the worst polluted rivers in South Africa;
(4) further acknowledges that all our rivers are under threat and drying up due to the urgency in dealing with what became a management style to discharge raw untreated sewage and toxic industrial waste freely into rivers not meeting the specified treatment levels;
(5) suggests that accounting officers should be criminally charged in their personal capacity for the destruction caused their mismanagement;
(6) recognises the failures of government institutions responsible for management and making decisions about water in our metros in towns and the severely contamination of eco pollution has a significant impact on the health and wellbeing of all water users, including all agricultural and fresh produce being irrigated from the rivers;
(7) expresses concern that between the mandate of the Department of Water and Sanitation, the Department of Forestry, Fisheries and the Environment and the intergovernmental constitutional co-operation clause, South Africa regressed from being a world leader in the treatment of sewage to now being a victim of a tsunami of untreated sewage flooding our rivers - threatening the very foundation of our national economy and failing the mandated obligation our rivers, the very foundation, and failing the mandate obligation as the custodian of water in South Africa;
(8) maintains that a river does not just carry water, it carries life, and therefore is the most critical resource; and
(9) calls on government to regulate water quality and restrict discharge of untreated sewage filling our rivers.
Motion not agreed to.
SOUTH AFRICA COMMEMORATES NATIONAL LIBRARY WEEK
(Draft Resolution)
Ms N E NKOSI: Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:
That the Council—
(1) notes that South Africa and the National Library commemorates the National Library Week from 15 to 24 March 2024;
(2) also notes that this is an annual celebration that highlights the important role libraries play in fostering knowledge, promoting literacy, and preserving our cultural heritage;
(3) further notes that this year’s Library Week theme is: “Libraries foster social cohesion”, which emphasises the National Library's commitment to bridging gaps, fostering inclusivity, providing a space for intellectual growth, enabling informed community participation, stimulating dialogue, and promoting mutual respect among people from diverse backgrounds; and
(4) finally calls on parents and guardians to encourage children and the youth to frequently visit local libraries to read and improve the Nation’s literacy levels.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
RENIER LE ROUX AND JAN HUMAN CONGRATULATED FOR WINNING IN THE THUNDERCAT INFLATABLE RACING WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS 2024
(Draft Resolution)
Mr S F DU TOIT: Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the FF Plus:
That the Council—
(1) notes that Renier Le Roux and Jan Human of Team M40, were crowned the “Kings of the Waves”, by winning the “Surf Racing Modified Class”, in the Thundercat Inflatable Racing World Championships 2024, held at Kings Beach, Port Elizabeth;
(2) also notes that these two young men showed the world that dedication and hard work pays off; and
(3) further notes that these young men are mentors in a society and proof that when you believe in your dreams- you will be victorious.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
SOCIAL RELIEF OF DISTRESS GRANT INCREASE WELCOMED
(Draft Resolution)
Mr E Z NJADU: Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:
That the Council—
(1) welcomes the good news that the Social Relief of Distress will be raised to R370 from April this year;
(2) understands that the increase is not ideal for the cost of living faced by nearly 19 million South Africans who rely on these grants to make ends mean;
(3) believes that the increase will go a long way in making a difference in the lives of millions of South Africans who continue to live in poverty and have no other means of survival at their disposal;
(4) calls on the government and stakeholders to continue to find ways of improving this grant so that in the future its increase can be linked to inflation when fiscal space allows; and
(5) supports the South African government’s commitment to continue to provide the Social Relief of Distress Grant, whilst deliberations on the feasibility of an affordable permanent basic income support grant is in process.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
COMMENDS EFFORTS BY POLICE IN LEBOWAKGOMO IN COMBATING ILLEGAL MINING
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M E NCHABELENG: Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:
That the Council—
(1) commends the police in Lebowakgomo for successfully apprehending four male suspects for engaging in illegal mining activities at Makurung village in the Capricorn District Municipality in Limpopo;
(2) understands that the four foreign nationals, between the ages of 22 and 35, were arrested as part of the ongoing high-density Operation Vala Umgodi, conducted by the SA Police Service, the SAPS, Capricorn District Illicit Mining Task Team on Wednesday, 6 March 2024, in the Lebowakgomo policing area;
(3) also understands that during the arrest, the police seized various mining equipment utilised in the illicit activities, such as an idling power generator, a jackhammer and one drill point;
(4) believes that illegal mining has a devastating effect on the South African economy and breeds horrendous acts of violence in areas where they occur;
(5) further welcomes the police’s unwavering resolution to vigorously pursue the individuals involved in illegal mining; and
(6) lastly supports their ongoing commitments and efforts in combating illegal mining activities, as well as their resolve to uphold the rule of law in that province and the rest of South Africa.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF JOINT STANDING COMMITTEE ON THE FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT OF PARLIAMENT ON PARLIAMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA’S 2022/23 ANNUAL REPORT OF THE PARLIAMENTARY BUDGET OFFICE
Ms D G MAHLANGU: Hon Deputy Chairperson, the Chief Whip, special delegates and hon members, thank you very much for affording me this opportunity to present towards the end of the Sixth Parliament term, the Report of the Joint Standing Committee on the Financial Management of Parliament. Hon members, having considered the annual Report of the Parliament
of the Republic of South Africa and having taken into account Parliament’s budgetary constraints confronted with poor economic performance and the no growth forecast in the country, Parliament identified only two strategic priorities for the Six Parliament. It envisaged to strengthen oversight and to enhance public involvement in Parliament activities.
In order to achieve the outcome of these strategic priorities, Parliament aimed to improve the committees oversight work in relation to budget cycle allowing sufficient time in the parliamentary programme for oversight activities and encouraging committees to undertake joint oversight activities. In improving effectiveness of public hearings, Parliament endorsed greater public participation by expanding public education, better dissemination of information, effective use of broadcasting technology and social media, the use of more official languages and encouraging committees to undertake joint public hearings.
Hon Deputy Chairperson, to execute oversight and public hearings in the Sixth Parliament, Parliament intended to enhance research and legal support in respect of oversight activities, improve members capacity through capacity building
programmes that empowers Members of Parliament in order to efficiently and effectively execute their oversight responsibilities. Parliament also aimed to improve oversight and accountability through better monitoring, tracking and evaluation in respect of Parliament’s own work, as well as the work of the executive.
Hon Chairperson and Members, Parliament also envisaged to safeguard openness and accessibility through the use of modern technology in respect of social media, tools of trade, workflow and automation, as well as cut costs but ensuring operational sustainability. Hon members, Parliament achieved the actual performance of 100% in 2022-23 financial year meeting all the targets. The institution set nine performance indicators to ensure its performance based on overall members’ satisfaction. The outcomes thereof point to 2022-23 annual performance plan, APP, which was aligned to the Sixth Parliament strategic plan.
The performance of Parliament was also measured by the client satisfaction in which services were measured through a survey conducted quarterly with Members of Parliament. The direct feedback was provided about where services could be improved.
The services were rated along five dimensions, most in interrelated to client satisfaction on usefulness, reliability, timeliness, ease of access and fairness. The results were determined by an average of the feedback received from the Members of Parliament.
Hon Deputy Chairperson and hon members, the postretirement medical aid benefits issue has not been resolved at the end of the 2022-23 financial year. Approaching the end of the Sixth Parliament, this issue has been dealt with the National Treasury, Parliament executive authority and the Joint Standing Committee on Financial Management of Parliament. The committee has recommended in a number of its report about this issue in this House even in the previous parliamentary terms. Hon members, the reliability of members’ loss of office gratuity on Parliament had also not been resolved at the end of the 2022-23 financial year.
Approaching the end of the Sixth Parliament, Parliament has an obligation to pay permanent delegates who have served five or more years and whose terms of office have ended, are entitled to once off gratuity benefit equally to four months pensionable salary for every five years of service. Hon Deputy
Chairperson, the exit gratuity is payable to eligible Members of Parliament who are members of public office bearers pension fund that exit the fund before or because of general elections. The exit gratuity is calculated as the difference between the value payable based on the new rules and the value payable in terms of old fund rules.
The amount payable increases by the consumer price index, CPI, each year until it is paid to a member when exits the fund.
Parliament carries the obligation to provide the post- employment travel benefit which is the domestic travel benefits to former members, executive members, meaning Ministers and Deputy Ministers and their spouses.
Beneficiaries are provided with a set of travel allocations which is valid for each calendar year with benefits and with effect from the first day subsequent to the date on which the former member surrender their offices or their office.
Hon members, Parliament achieved its ninth consecutive and successful clean audit. The Auditor-General found that Parliament’s financial statements present fairly in all material respect. The financial position of Parliament as at
31 March 2023, the financial performance and cash flows for
2022-23 financial years were in accordance with the standards of generally recognised accounting practices, Grap, and to the requirements of the Financial Management of Parliament and Provincial Legislatures Act, FMPPLA.
Hon Deputy Chairperson, the audit committee in Parliament is an independent statutory committee established in terms of section 47 of the FMPPLA. Its terms of reference are formalised in the audit committee charter as approved by the executive authority. Overall, in the period under review the committee operated in terms of its mandate as outlined in the FMPPLA and the charter. The committee was satisfied with the reliance of the internal controls over supply chain management and fraud risk management. The audit committee encouraged continued efforts to improve control over information and communication technology and institutional performance management processes.
Parliament was guided by the enterprise risk management framework. The management of the institution was ultimately responsible for maintaining an effective risk management process. A risk management committee comprising of senior managers was in place, however, the audit committee was
concerned about the lack of capacity to ensure implementation of a robust risk management programme for the institution. It, therefore, recommend further improvements of the risk management practice, in particular, improvements to risk governance processes including the functioning of the risk management committee and the use of the organisational redesign processes to determine the most suitable resourcing model for Parliament’s governance, risk management and compliance function.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms S E Lucas): As you draw to the conclusion, hon member.
Ms D G MAHLANGU: As I conclude, hon Deputy Chairperson, please, allow me to thank the members of both Houses, more specially, the members of the joint standing committee from the NCOP, the support staff of the committee for the sterling work that they have shown, their commitment in as far as executing their work at undesirable hours. Thank you very much, hon Deputy Chairperson.
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report be agreed to.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF JOINT STANDING COMMITTEE ON THE FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT OF PARLIAMENT ON PARLIAMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA’S DRAFT 2024-25 ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLAN DATED 28 NOVEMBER 2023
Ms D G MAHLANGU: Hon Deputy Chairperson, thank you very much once more for allowing me to present this other report of 2024-25 performance plan. I am presenting this report on
behalf of the Joint Standing Committee on Financial Management of Parliament having considered the Parliament of South Africa’s draft 2024-25 annual performance plan, APP.
Hon Deputy Chairperson, the Medium-Term Strategic Framework, sets out the government strategic plan for 2019 to 2024. It contains seven priorities, 81 outcomes and 561 indicators.
Parliament will monitor the overall impact of the development indicators contained in it. The implementation of the strategic plan is achieved through annual performance plans and associated operational plans and budget. The APPs outlines the outputs that must be delivered to achieve the outcomes in strategic plans. The operational plans in turn focus on the activities and inputs needed to deliver outputs.
Hon members, this APP represents a continuation of the changes that were first introduced in 2021-22. In 2021-22 same financial year, Parliament reduced its programme from five to three. Since that time, performance has also been measured using the client satisfaction model rather than the more controversial method informed by the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation’s framework on strategic and annual performance plans.
Hon members and hon Deputy Chairperson, to set up the new macro strategic framework for the Seventh Parliament, Parliament hosted a strategic review session in November 2022 in around improving the quality of governance and accountability through enhanced oversight and with a focus on how Parliament may be redefined to effectively respond to the
demands of citizens. It was attended by Parliament’s executive authority, presiding officers and senior managers and the management team.
External stakeholders were invited to participate and share their inside on how Parliament performance may be improved. The analysis of the Sixth Parliament performance revealed elements which contributed to poor outcomes for the institution such as weak oversight and accountability and no implementation of parliamentary committee recommendations, fragmented governance and ineffective decision-making. This diminishing public trust, poor public participation and weak stakeholder management, including poor co-ordination with key partners, the lack of technical tools to support oversight, ineffective support for constituency work, the lack of clarity of powers between the National Treasury and Parliament to Parliament’s own budgeting and functions, decision-making and a limitation of structures, uneven resource allocation and weak strategy execution.
Hon Deputy Chairperson, the interventions were also identified to improve Parliament’s performance such as greater strategic clarity, the development of instruments supporting oversight
modelling, development of useful institutional indicators and scorecards, the development of an implementation plan for the Zondo recommendations, the development of a new participation to lead and co-ordinate oversight activities, the development of an oversight priority model, the development of the committee planning framework, the review of the support for constituency offices to be conducted, the development of an impact assessment framework for Bills, the review of the petitions system and the development of the stakeholder engagements framework.
The strategic review session concluded that ideal, the Seventh Parliament should be a transformative, responsive and accountable Parliament practice effective stakeholder management and participation practice effective decision- making and strategy execution and optimise resource allocation according to the institutional strategy.
The outcome of the strategic review session, resulted in the development of an action plan for executing Parliament’s strategy. This including selecting critical indicating capturing the work of Parliament from an impact outcome level.
The institutions 2023-24 APP was reviewed, and a draft macro strategy of the Seventh Parliament was created.
In respect of the restoration of the building damaged during the 2022 financial year, we all no the cause, the institution will partner with the Development Bank of Southern Africa, DBSA, and the stakeholders including the Department of Public Works and Infrastructure and the National Treasury to deliver the project.
Parliament envisioned new development such as high-level change management plan to ensure transformation of the institution, the implementation of the plan to restore the buildings affected by the 2022 fire, the implementation of the institutional process to ensure strategic clarity, the review and optimisation of the business model for Parliament, the professionalising of the parliamentary service towards ensuring service excellence, the alignment of the institutional structure for its strategy, skills transformation towards data and information management and analysis and problem solving in support of the work of a transformative Parliament and the development and
implementation of a new broadcasting strategy for the Seventh Parliament.
Hon members and Deputy Chairperson, Parliament set the transformational target among others, to pursue the transformational objective in line with the legislative and oversight programme, aiming to implement the recommendations of the Zondo Commission. The development and implementation of an oversight priority model to ensure scrutiny of critical areas. The development and implementation of a committee planning framework linked to the identified oversight priority areas. The country dashboard to assist in measuring progress towards the attainment of the National Development Plan, NDP, outcomes and impacts and scoreboards for both Houses of Parliament to ensure their strategies are aligned. Investment in data modelling and scenario tools to improve the quality of oversight.
Hon members, the appropriation amount to approximately R3 billion is determined based on the 2024-25 annual performance plan.
In addition, Parliament requested an amount of approximately R493 million for direct charges that is remuneration of Members of Parliament and other requirements.
The sales by market establishment or own revenue are budgeted at R3 million. The interest on income is budgeted at R15 million. Other revenue is budgeted at approximately R249 million. In total, Parliament’s 2025 budget amounts to approximately R3,8 billion.
Hon Deputy Chairperson, for the associate services and transfers which include members facilities allocated R287 million. Represented political parties in Parliament
provided R572 million and the Parliament Budget Office, PBO, R20,3 million.
Therefore, in total the associated services and transfer programme received an allocation of approximately
R879 million.
Hon Deputy Chairperson, the committee observed that while it appreciates the work accomplished to development of the 2024-
25 APP and macro structure for the Seventh Parliament, there
are concerns around the implementation of the plans. Especially considering the delay in the completion of the organisation realignment projects, the number of critical vacancies, constrains budget and various capacity constrains within the parliamentary services.
The committee is also concerned about the lack of details in the APP evolving the matter in which the structure will be implemented.
Hon Deputy Chairperson, in addition, the committee notes the various risks identified to the successful implementation of the 2024-25 APP. It is also noted that the administration has not provided strategies to mitigate these risks as indicated in previous years, in all the reports of the committee. The committee is concerned about the liability posed by Parliament’s obligations in respect of the contributions to Parmed Medical Aid Scheme for former Members of Parliament and provincial legislatures. The committee is concerned about the lack of progress as far as the negotiations with the National Treasury to transfer this liability away from Parliament and towards more appropriate vehicle.
Hon Deputy Chairperson, the committee observed that approximately R200 million budget reduction imposed on Parliament in the recent Medium Term Budget Policy Statement, MTBPS. This will undoubtedly have a negative impact on the core business of Parliament. We also remain concerned about the fact that Parliament was funded in the same manner as government departments. Parliament is reliant on the executive which it is obligated to hold and to account, that is untenable.
The slow progress in negotiations with the Minister of Finance towards the funding process that is appropriate for Parliament as a separate Am of State remains a grave concern as it impacts on Parliament’s ability to execute its constitutional obligations.
Hon Deputy Chairperson, the committee notes the reported achievements in relation to public participation but remain concerned that efforts to encourage public participation in the law-making processes are inadequate. We are concerned about the broadcasting of parliamentary activities on a pay to view channel and data dependent forums which under the current economic conditions makes it impossible for a significant
section of the population to have access to how they were represented in Parliament.
Hon Deputy Chairperson and hon members, the executive authority should respond to the recommendations of the committee that are stated in this report within the 30 days of the adoption of this report by this august House.
The committee recommends that the organisational realignment project be completed as a matter of urgency and before the Seventh Parliament. Furthermore, it is recommended that all vacancies critical to the institution and the implementation of the Seventh Parliament macro structure must be filled as a matter of urgency.
The comprehensive risk management plans be developed to address the risk listed in relation to the implementation of programmes one and two, the senior management which will be responsible for leading the implementation of the Seventh Parliament macro structure be capacitated to lead their divisions in a manner that will support the success of the strategy of the Seventh Parliament.
As I draw to conclusion Deputy Chairperson, the committee recommends a review of the processes underpinning the institution public participation efforts to expand public participation should be ongoing and cover the extend of Parliament’s activities. The finalisation of the broadcasting was dependent on the finalisation of the SA Broadcasting Corporation Bill.
We, therefore, as a committee hon Deputy Chairperson, as I conclude, recommends that once that Bill has been finalised, the broadcasting strategy should be completed as a matter of urgency. The strategy should include provisions for free access to television and social media.
I thank you hon members. I extend my appreciation and the support staff. Thank you, once again.
IsiNdebele:
Ngiyathokoza.
English:
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report be agreed to.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF JOINT STANDING COMMITTEE ON THE FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT OF PARLIAMENT ON PARLIAMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA’S 2022-23 ANNUAL REPORT, 28 NOVEMBER 2023
Ms D G MAHLANGU: Hon Deputy Chairperson, I once more feel honoured and humbled to be given the opportunity to present this report to the majestic House, the August House, on behalf of the Joint Standing Committee on the Financial Management of Parliament. Having considered the 2022-23 annual report of the Parliamentary Budget Office, PBO. The PBO is a juristic entity of the Parliament of the Republic of South Africa, and it is funded through the transfer from Budget Vote 2 of Parliament. Hon members, the PBO was established in 2013 in terms of
section 15 of the Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Act 9 of 2009.
It is a juristic entity of Parliament with a director serving as its accounting officer. The PBO accounting officer is accountable to the National Assembly and the National Council of Provinces through the executive authority. Additionally, the PBO is required to consult an advisory board comprising of the House Chairpersons responsible for the committees in the National Assembly and the National Council of Provinces and the Chairpersons of the Finance Committees in the National Assembly and the NCOP on specific governance and management matters. The PBO mandates that it requires it to provide independent, professional and objective research, analysis and advice to support Parliament’s fiscal oversight processes.
Hon members, the core functions of the PBO are to undertake research and the analysis for the Finance and Appropriations Committees in the National Assembly and the NCOP on annual basis, providing reviews and analysis of the documentation tabled in Parliament by the Minister of Finance, providing advice and analysis on proposed amendments to the fiscal framework, Division of Revenue Bil and money Bills and on
policy proposals with budgetary implications, monitoring and synthesising matters and reports with budgetary implications tabled and adopted by the Houses of Parliament, with particular emphasis on reports by other committees, keeping abreast of policy debates and developments in key expenditure and revenue areas, monitoring and reporting on potential unfunded mandates arising out of legislative policy or budgetary proposals, and undertaking any other work deemed necessary by the Director to support the implementation of the money Bills legislation.
Hon Deputy Chairperson and members, the PBO highlighted some challenges that impacts on its ability to deliver on its mandate such as inadequate budget and other resources, resulting in the PBO being disempowered to give full effort to section 15 of the Money Bills Act, in particular, support to other sectoral committees such as those overseeing education, health, economic development, monitoring and reporting on potential unfunded mandates coming from legislation, and advising on the processes to be considered when processing budget amendment noncompliance with the money Bills legislation in respect of the PBO funding, inadequate budget
and human capacity to fulfil its mandate and fulfil governance and reporting responsibilities.
The inadequate budget makes it impossible to recruit talents to ensure that the PPO operates effectively, and the excessive bureaucratic recruitment processes are inappropriate for an entity of the PBO size, and it impacts on its ability to fill vacancies with the necessary speed. Hon Deputy Chairperson, the 2022-23 strategic planning framework for PBO identified five main performance indicators with associated demand and supply driven performance outputs. The performance indicators and associated performance outputs and targets were aligned with the mandates as set out in section 15 of the Money Bills Act per the above-mentioned, the PBO, hon members, performed positively, delivering 36 outputs against the 28 outputs targeted. The PBO’s performance information was influenced by cyclical variations in demand driven requests which resulted in the performance variants. Unlike Parliament, the PBO did not set targets to measure the satisfaction and the perception of the Members of Parliament about its performance.
In the 2022-23 Annual Performance Review, the PBO delivered various research and analysis briefs to the committees of
Parliament, including a budget analysis addressing the mismatch between the strategic development framework and budget framework, a brief on macroeconomic analysis, analysis of the socioeconomic and budget context, tax policy, the government’s underspending of proposals for a parliamentary committee to oversee the Presidency, a brief on the industrial policy and the dysfunctional structures of the South African economy, briefs on macroeconomy and trade and the industrial policy reforms, the business bounce back support and the credit loan guarantee schemes for small, medium and macro enterprises, SMMEs.
Hon Deputy Chairperson, the Money Bills Act requires that the PBO be provided with a three-year budget to fulfil its mandate. The Parliament has not complied with this provision. Failure to provide the budget makes it impossible for the PBO to fully deliver on its mandate, and it may be regarded as interference with the functions of the office. In 2022-23 the PBO received a gross annual budget of approximately
R18,4 million across the three main expenditure categories. The budget comprised of R17,1 million for the compensation of the employees, and approximately R1,3 million for goods and services. The PBO reported an annual 88% aggregate spending
rate across the three main expenditure categories. The delays in procurement and human resource processes resulted in the PBO being unable to complete planned procurement, including economic modelling recruitment.
Hon Deputy Chairperson and members, the PBO subscribes to annually paid economic information system that enables it to mine economic echometric data package and the analysis of the data and present the complex data to the parliamentarians in an understandable format. The PBO engages in the domestic, continental and international stakeholder relations to strengthen the existing stakeholder relations and to establish the new ones. These relationships ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: As you draw to the conclusion, hon member.
Ms D G MAHLANGU: ... the office stays abreast of the practices. As I conclude, hon Deputy Chairperson, the committee recommended in its report relating to the performance of Parliament that there be efforts to resolve the shortcomings related to Parliament’s own budget processes and to negotiate with the Minister of Finance. The committee also
recommended that the executive authority investigates the impediment to the full implementation of the provision of the Money Bills Act relating to the PBO. Again, as I conclude, hon Deputy Chairperson, we also recommended in the last recommendation that the PPO consider measuring the satisfaction and perception of Members of Parliament in the same way that the nonfinancial performance of Parliament was measured, to ensure members satisfaction with the support services it receives, moreover, the committee recommended that the PBO ensures that it complies with the requirements to report to its financial performance and its annual reports.
Thank you very much, hon Chairperson ...
IsiNdebele:
Ngithokoze namalunga walekomiti, nabasebenzi abasizako. Ngiyathokoza.
Debate concluded.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Oh, I know that it was quite the hardest task that you had. However, hon members, all the reports have been uploaded in the chatgroup. So, we now put the question that the Report be adopted. However, before
we proceed to the voting, I shall allow the provinces the opportunity to make their declarations of vote according to Rule 86, if they so wish. If not, we shall proceed to the voting on the question, and I now call on the provinces to cast their votes.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, Northwest, Western Cape.
Report accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Mr E Z NJADU: Deputy Chairperson, my apology can I skip and do it next. It’s just a challenge that I am having.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: But I think the next one is also you, NYD. OK, then we will go to hon Shaikh. Which means both your orders will now follow ... the sixth order.
Mr E Z NJADU: Yes, thank you Deputy Chair.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Shaikh ... hon
members, as requested by honourable Njadu and it will take a
lot of time to ask for the explanations. I will allow that we proceed to the sixth order and then return to the fourth and the fifth order that is supposed to be done by hon Njadu.
And I will now request that we continue with the sixth order, that is the Consideration of the Independent Police Investigative Directorate Amendment Bill, B21 B2023 National Assembly, section 75 and report of Select Committee on Security and Justice thereon, ATC, 30 March 2024, page 31. And I will now call on hon Shahidabibi Shaik, Chairperson of the Select Committee and Security and Justice to present the committee report. Hon Shaik, if you are ready, it is over to you.
CONSIDERATION OF INDEPENDENT POLICE INVESTIGATIVE DIRECTORATE AMENDMENT BILL [B21B-2023] (NATIONAL ASSEMBLY – S75) AND REPORT OF THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON SECURITY AND JUSTICE ON THE INDEPENDENT POLICE INVESTIGATIVE DIRECTORATE AMENDMENT BILL
Ms S SHAIKH: Deputy Chairperson, greetings to your good self and to all hon members of this august House. By whichever soon the Independent Police Investigative Directorate Amendment Bill, B21 B2023, was referred to the Select Committee and
Security and Justice on the 5th of December 2023. The committee reports that it has agreed to the Bill without proposed amendments.
Hon Deputy Chairperson, the process of effecting agreements to the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Act 2011, commenced in 2016, immediately after the Constitution judgement of McBride versus Minister of Police, and another.
Also known as the McBride Judgement.
In the McBride Judgement, the Constitutional Court agreed with the applicant and declared
IPID, Independent Police Investigative Directorate Act, invalid. To the extent that it authorized as the Minister of Police ... [Inaudible.] ... and take any disciplinary steps pursuant to the suspension or remove from office of the executive director of the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, without parliamentary oversight.
Parliament was given 24 months to rectify the constitutional defect. Consequently, a draft Bill which sought to cure this defect in the act was submitted to Parliament and as a result, the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Amendment
Bill 2019, was signed into law by the President on the 26th of May 2020.
The aforesaid Amendment Act provides for parliamentary oversight and respect of the suspension, discipline, or removal of the executive director, is directed by the Constitutional Court in the McBride Judgement.
After the enactment of the amendment act, the process of effecting comprehensive amendments to the principal act commences. Revised version of the Bill, the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Amendment Bill 2023, was approved by Cabinet on the 24th of May 2023 for introduction in Parliament.
The Bill seeks to entrench the institutional and operational independence of IPID, as well as to make it explicitly clear that IPID must be independent, impartial, and must exercise its powers and functions without fear, favour, or prejudice.
Hon Deputy Chairperson, the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Amendment Bill, B21 B2023 seeks to amend the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Act 2011 to
provide for the direct institutional and operational independence that the directorate must be independent, impartial and must exercise its ... [Inaudible.] ... and conscience without fear or prejudice or undue influence in order to give effect to the judgment of the Constitutional Court in the case of McBride versus the Minister of Police and another.
To amend the provisions relating to the appointment of the executive director of the directorate, to broaden the executive director’s responsibilities in respect of the referral of recommendations regarding disciplinary methods, to provide for pre employment security screening investigations to be conducted by the directorate, to provide for the conditions of service of investigators to be determined by the Minister, to provide for the directorate to investigate any deaths caused by the action of a member of the South African Police Service or a member of a Municipal Police Service, whether such member was on or off duty.
To provide for the directorate to investigate a raid by a member of the South African Police Service or a member of the Municipal Police Service, whether such member was on or off
duty, to strengthen the provisions relating to the implementation of the disciplinary recommendations, to provide for a savings provision regarding the conditions of service of existing investigators and provincial heads, to amend other provisions so is to ensure that the directorate executes its mandate effectively and efficiently.
Hon Deputy Chairperson, the committee received seven written submissions from institutions and organizations in response to the committee’s invitation to the public from the following commentators: the Commission for Gender Equality, the African Criminal Justice Reform, Gun Free South Africa, Western Cape Government, The Institute for Security Studies, the Catholic
Parliamentary Liaison Office and Africa Policing Civilian Oversight Forum.
The committee dealt with various issues in its deliberations on the Bill on the 28th of February and the 6th of March 2024. Hon Deputy Chairperson, on the 13th of March 2024 prior to adopting the Bill, the Parliamentary Legal Services confirmed that the Bill is in order and that no amendments are required. The committee proceeded to consider and adopt the Bill as referred without proposed amendments, and the committee
further adopted the report on the Bill on the 13th of March 2024.
Hon Deputy Chairperson, the IPID plays an important watchdog role of the South African Police Service. And as an institution it should exude the necessary independent and impartiality in exercising its mandate and to secure public trust.
Members supported the Bill, noting that it has gone a long way to cure the defects, which were identified by the Constitution for judgment in the McBride matter. The IPID, and its work, and its independence is supported and strengthened by the Bill. The necessary systems and structures must be put in place to ensure that at the end of the day, output is effective, and it accomplishes its objects.
We’re particularly welcome the inclusion of clause four, which provides for appointment of a penal to assist the Minister with the nomination of a candidate for the executive director post and the submission of the name of the candidate to the relevant parliamentary committee for approval.
We further understand from our deliberations that the appointment of the panel will be guided by our legal framework. And which also covers the qualifications of panel members. The committee is pleased, hon Deputy Chairperson, that the Bill seeks to strengthen the independence and impartiality of IPID, and that this will increase public trust.
Hon Deputy Chairperson, the Select Committee on Security and Justice, having considered the Independent Police Investigative Directorate Amendment Bill B21, B2023, ... [Inaudible.] ... on the 5th of December 2023, classified by
the Joint Tagging Mechanism, JTM, as a section 75 Bill, recommends that the council pass the Bill without amendments. I thank you, Deputy Chairperson.
Declaration of vote(s):
Ms M DLAMINI: Chair Deputy Chairperson, the Independent Police Investigative Directorate is the constitutional entity established in terms of section 206 (6) of the Constitution.
The drafters of the Constitution envisioned that this would be an independent body guided only by the law, to which members of the public would lay complaints against the police.
The Independent Police Investigative Directorate, IPID, is therefore constitutionally required to be independent and to be free from political interference. The EFF concurs with the judgment of the Constitutional Court in the Robert McBride case and holds a similar view that no person, regardless of title or position, may assume authority that is not in alignment with the roles, responsibilities, and mandates of such office.
The EFF further holds the view that no political interference should be condoned by virtue of concealed section in any law that may jeopardize compromise or conflate the independence of IPID or any other institutions of the state.
The independence of IPID should be protected at all costs. This institution is bound to investigate transgressions and violations of the police. For this reason, we hold this very strong belief that this institution cannot account to the same person who is also a political principal of the perpetrators, that the IPID must investigate. However, the Bill before us today still falls too short of these requirements and still links too much power to the Minister.
While we are satisfied that the Bill deals adequately with the judgment of the Constitutional Court on the McBride case, we are of the view that the legislature could have done more to broaden the amendment to strengthen IPID. The EFF supports the Bill. Thank you.
Mr F J BADENHORST: Deputy Chairperson, the DA cannot support this Bill as it has failed to take into account the Constitutional Court judgment on the McBride versus the Minister of Police and another court case. Wherein the court deemed certain clauses of the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, IPID Act, defective and unconstitutional, to the extent that they did not provide the IPID’s institutional and operational independence.
The court unanimous decision confirmed that the IPID Acts legislative provisions were unconstitutional, ... [Inaudible.]
... the Ministry of Police, unilaterally to suspend, discipline or remove out its executive director, thereby making the directorate vulnerable of political interference.
With the pass ... [Inaudible.] ... clause of the Bill fails to stipulate its ... [Inaudible.] ... and guarantee IPID’s
independence from South African Police Service, SAPS, as is provided for in the principal act. The proposed clause four fails to ensure that the panel assisting the Minister will be appropriately qualified and does not contain sufficient safeguards in guaranteeing the independence of the panel, to be appointed by the Ministry with parliamentary oversight in the event of the executive director’s removal from office.
The DA therefore belief that if this Bill is signed into law, it will most certainly be challenged in court. This Bill fails to recognize the importance of IPID as an independent institution that is accountable to Parliament, nor is there an attempt by Parliament to strengthen IPID’s independence, and therefore this Bill must be rejected. I thank you.
Ms B M BARTLETT: Hon Chairperson, I just want to turn off my video because I am struggling with loadshedding.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON NCOP (Ms S E Sylvia): You may continue.
Ms B M BARTLETT: As the ANC, we stand to support for Independent Police Investigative Directorate Amendment Bill known as the Ipid Bill. This Bill is a result of the
Constitutional Court judgement in the MacBride v Minister of Police and Another in which the court declares — section 6(3)(a) and 6(6) of the Ipid Act invalid to an extent that they authorise the Minister of Police to suspend, take any disciplinary steps pursuant to suspension, or remove from office the Executive Director of the Independent Police Investigative Directorate without parliamentary oversight.
Hon Chair, the Amendment in the Ipid Bill amongst other things, addresses the following: Firstly, to ensure independent oversight to the SA Police Service and the Minister of Police Service. Secondly, to align strategic objectives with that of the national office to enhance the functioning on directorate. Thirdly, to provide for independent and impartial with investigations and identify criminal offences allegedly committed by the members of the SA Police Service and municipal police service. Fourthly, to make disciplinary recommendation in respect of members of SA Police Service and municipal police service resulting from investigation conducted by the directorate.
Hon Chair, this Bill clearly provides for the oversight role of Parliament in the appointment of the Executive Directorate.
The retentions of section 6(1) and 6(2) of the Ipid Act in the Bill guarantees that Parliament to the portfolio committee will exercise its oversight powers in the appointment of the Executive Director. The Bill also provides for the clear distinction of the role of the Executive and the role of Parliament in the appointment of the Executive Director.
Hon Chairperson, we support this Bill because it seeks to strengthen the institutional and operational independence of Ipid as well as to make it expressively clear that Ipid must be independent, impartial and must exercise its powers and function without fear, favour or prejudice. Hon Chair, we as the ANC support the Bill. I thank you.
Debate concluded.
Declarations of votes made on behalf of the Economic Freedom Fighters, Democratic Alliance and African National Congress.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF EXPROPRIATION BILL [B23D–2020] (NATIONAL ASSEMBLY – SECTION 76) AND REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT, PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION, PUBLIC WORKS AND INFRASTRUCTURE THEREON
Mr K M MMOEIMANG: Deputy Chairperson of the National Council of Province, allow me to take this opportunity on behalf of the Select Committee on Transport, Public Works, Public service and Administration to present the report on the Expropriation Bill B23D of 2020 which is a section 76 Bill that we received from the National Assembly.
Hon Deputy Chair, the object of this Bill is to provide for expropriation of property for a public purpose or in the public interest. Secondly, to regulate the procedure for the expropriation of property for a public purpose or in the public interest including payment of compensation and to identify certain instances where the provision of nil compensation may be just an equitable for expropriation in the public interest, also to repeal the old Apartheid Act of the Expropriation Act 63 of 1975. And lastly, to provide for matters connected therewith.
The Bill was passed by the National Assembly and transmitted to the National Council of Provinces for concurrence and referred to the Select Committee on Transport, Public Service and Administration, Public Works and Infrastructure on the 28th of September 2022. On the 5th of February 2023, the process that was followed by the select committee is as follows:
We placed an advert in the national media calling for written submissions on the Bill with a deadline of the 6th of March 2023 for the receipt of submissions. At the request of the select committee, a team from the University of Cape Town law faculty or UCT law faculty was invited, led by Professor Hanri Mostert who prepared and conducted a workshop to enable members of select committee to appreciate the concepts related to expropriation with the select committee on the 22nd of February 2023.
Following that Deputy Chair, the council to the Department of Public Works and Infrastructure, on behalf of the department also briefed the select committee on the Bill following that the select committee had oral submissions on the Bill on the 27th of September 2023 and on the 11th of October 2023.
Following these submissions, the department was then invited on the 25th of October 2023 to brief the select committee on its response to written and oral submissions received on the Bill.
On the 24th of November 2023, the select committee considered the negotiating mandates on the Exploration Bill as received from the provinces as follows:
Eastern Cape province mandated its permanent delegates to the National Council of Provinces to negotiate in favour of the Bill within parameters identified. Secondly, the Free State province, the Portfolio Committee on Public Works and Infrastructure, Roads and Transport as designated by the Free State legislature made some amendments, but also mandated its permanent delegate to negotiate in favour of the Bill. Gauteng province is the third one, also mandated permanent delegate to negotiate in favour of the Bill having raised certain amendments that needed to be considered.
In relation to KwaZulu-Natal, the Portfolio Committee on Public Works agreed to mandate the KwaZulu-Natal delegation to support or to negotiate in favour of the Expropriation Bill
with consideration of certain amendments that were proposed. Limpopo mandated its permanent delegates to negotiate in favour of the Bill and made some concrete recommendations.
With relation to Mpumalanga, the Portfolio Committee on Public Works, Roads and Transport, Community Safety also having considered the Expropriation Bill conferred on its permanent delegate to negotiate in favour of the Bill without any proposed amendment. Northern Cape as the 7th province also mandated its permanent delegate to negotiate in favour of the Expropriation Bill.
The Northwest likewise did the same, and then the Western Cape government, the Standing Committee on Infrastructure having considered the subject of the Expropriation Bill referred to the committee in accordance with the standing rule to confer on its permanent delegate the authority not to negotiate in favour of the Bill.
The select committee considered the C-List of agreed amendments to the Bill on the 6th of December 2023 and the 7th of February 2024. Following that, 8 provinces submitted the final mandates on the Bill, which were considered on the 13th
of March 2024 and the final mandates submitted were as follows:
The Eastern Cape voted in favour of the Bill and mandated the Eastern Cape permanent delegate to support the Bill. Free State also voted in favour of the Bill. Gauteng also did likewise. KwaZulu-Natal also agreed to support the Exploration Bill. Limpopo also voted in favour of the Bill. Mpumalanga likewise did the same. Northern Cape followed suit and supported Expropriation Bill. In relation to North West, we did not receive the final mandate. Western Cape conferred on its permanent delegate not to support the Bill.
The select committee agreed to make provision for North West’s final mandate on the Bill. But as of now, we have not received the final mandate on the North West province. And now the select committee in terms of the outcome of the consideration of the Bill, having deliberated on and considered the subject of the Expropriation Bill B23B of 2020, the National Assembly Bill section 76 as tact referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism, JTM as a section 76 Bill reports that it has agreed to an amended Bill B23D-2020.
Two members from the DA submitted a minority view not to support the report. I therefore table the report to the House for consideration hon Deputy Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces.
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Bill be agreed to.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape.
AGAINST: Western Cape.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Declarations of vote:
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Deputy Chairperson, firstly, the Expropriation Bill before this House today should be seen for what it is. While the expropriation legislation around the world represents the lawful ability of a state to utilise private property for the public goods, this Bill represents
the ANC’s desperate attempt to broaden state authority over property ownership by framing it as land before instrument to musk its land restitution failures.
The passing of the Restitution of Land Rights Act 22 of 1994, followed by the adoption of the Constitution in 1996, made it clear that land should be restored to the dispossessed. The failing ANC government set itself an ambitious programme to restore 30% of the land. Instead, 30 years later due to the incompetence and corruption most land claims have not been settled and very little land has been retributed.
The ANC then conger up petitory unlawful attempts to offer section 25 of the Constitution to deprive South Africans of their property rights. The ANC summarily fail dismally in December 2021, and now in a desperate attempt to avert the inevitable disaster at the polls in 2024, the ANC is bulldozing through a Bill which will prove to be unconstitutional, irregular and deeply flawed. This Bill will inevitably fail dismal scrutiny for the following reasons.
Firstly, the current wording will render the Bill unconstitutional because it will be an attempt to amend the
Constitution through ordinary legislation rather than a process of the constitutional amendment. Secondly, the Bill is inconsistence with section 25 of the Constitution, and therefore unconstitutional. Section 25 too clearly states properly there will only be appropriation in terms of a law of general application for a public purpose and interest and subject to compensation. Thirdly, the final mandate on the Bill will be irregular in terms of the mandate in the provision of the Act which mandates only committees in the provinces instead of the legislative being accepted by the select committee.
The DA wishes to make it clear that we will challenge this Bill where it will go for concurrence and then with the Presidency if it proceeds that far. If the President fails in his duty to the Constitution, we will petition the Constitutional Court for an order declaring the relevant sections unconstitutional. I thank you.
Mr M I RAYI: Hon Chair, let me explain that the DA will be within their rights as it is allowed in the Constitution. If you are not happy with the Act, you follow all these
processes. So, it is nothing new. You can’t make that a threat because it is a right that is in the Constitution.
Ms H S BOSHOFF: This is a declaration, and not another debate.
Mr M I RAYI: I rise on behalf of the ANC. The ANC supports the Expropriation Bill. It is geared towards transformation of the country. The Bill is a section 76 Bill and was passed in the National Assembly and it requires concurrence of the National Council of Provinces.
The Bill will certainly benefit the people and development in the provinces. This legislation repeals the apartheid Expropriation Act of 1975, and this Bill is based within the Constitution and ethos of democratic South Africa. The Bill is based on the due processes of law and conforms to section 25 of the Constitution. It enables, trough the Minister of Public Works, for the expropriation of property for public purposes in the public interest. More importantly, it allows for the expropriation of land with compensation and also in certain instances for nil compensations. It allows for expropriation to ensure the correction of injustices of the past in relation to labour tenants or farms who have historically been
dispossessed. It also allows for the temporary expropriation in case of disasters.
This Bill provides for other government departments to apply for the expropriation of land for public purposes through the Minister - the executing authority - as this needs to occur with motivation and in the public interest and changes that fact. In the old apartheid Act, there were many different authorities enabled to expropriate a property. The procedure and process to be followed when dealing with cases of expropriation is stipulated in the Bill and enshrined in the Constitution, and makes no room for arbitrary expropriation of land.
The select committee’s process was very thorough and had both written and oral submissions on the Bill. All provinces supported the Bill, and in some provinces with amendments. The final mandate reflects that all provinces supported the Bill with the exception of the Western Cape. The Western Cape do not uphold to the Expropriation Bill.
Notwithstanding the necessity for the Expropriation Bill which expropriate land within dully and processes and in the power
within this, this type of legislation is the norm in all countries with government able to expropriate property in the public interest. The correction of the historical injustices of the past and ensuring development of the majority of people is not negotiable as the process of economic transformation is critical for the development of the country. The Expropriation Bill will positively contribute to infrastructural development and thereby support economic reconstruction and recovery plan. The Bill redresses the historical issues of land dispossession and seeks to redress this within a legal framework of the Constitution. Land is a key asset for the development of historically disadvantaged community.
The select committee reports that it had agreed to an amendment Bill which was supported by the committee. The select committee seeks approval of the National Council of Provinces to pass this Bill as it is a crucial part of the transformation of the country. Thank you so much, hon Deputy Chair.
Question put: That the Bill be agreed to.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape.
AGAINST: Western Cape.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF NATIONAL COUNCIL ON GENDER-BASED VIOLENCE AND FEMICIDE BILL [B31B-2022] (NATIONAL ASSEMBLY – SECTION 75) AND REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON HEALTH AND SOCIAL SERVICES THEREON
Mr E Z NJADU: Good afternoon hon Deputy Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces. The report of the Select Committee on Health and Social Services on the National Council on Gender-Based Violence and Femicide Bill [B31B-2022] (National Assembly - section 75) of 08 March 2024. The Select Committee on Health and Social Services having considered the subject of the National Council on Gender-Based Violence and Femicide Bill [B31B-2022] (National Assembly - section 75) referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
Hon Deputy Chair, the process that was followed the National Council on Gender-Based Violence and Femicide Bill [B31B-2022] (National Assembly - section 75) was referred to the committee on 31 October 2023. The national Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities briefed the committee on 01 December 2023.Public comment was requested via various parliamentary platforms from 01 December 2023 to 29 January
2024.
The committee deliberated on the written submissions on 05 and 08 March 2024. The committee finalised and agreed to the Bill on 08 March 2024. Therefore, hon Deputy Chairperson, I hereby table the report to be considered. Thank you very much.
Declarations of vote:
Mr M A P DE BRUYN: Hon Deputy Chairperson, although the FF Plus is against any form of violence, we believe this Bill is calling to establish yet another state organ, with salaries to be paid, and another opportunity for cadre deployment without addressing any of the real issues. In fact, it won’t even scratch the surface. It will not, for example address the whole sexual offences courts and their inefficiency to name but one of the current problems.
When looking to the composition of the board, it is worrying that the split is still in favour of government, and we are not seeing more involvement of civil societies. Deputy Chairperson, the ANC argued that more government entities should be on the board as they will be the ones implementing the decisions. But one can also argue that civil societies work on the ground, and they will provide a clearer picture of what impact is needed to address these issues.
Deputy Chairperson, when it comes to the funding, according to the Bill, the implementation of the Act will be accommodated within the funds received by the Council from appropriation by an act of Parliament’s interest on investments, donations or contributions and monies received from any other source upon implementation of the Bill once enacted. Hon Deputy Chair, that sounds all very noble, but how would it look practically? I think it would be a totally different story.
Hon Deputy Chairperson, another matter of concern is the public participation and the lack thereof. Activists further claimed that the current Bill does not seem adequate to service a backbone for the formulation of legislation that
will advance the implementation of the national strategy against gender-based violence as initially envisioned.
Hon Deputy Chairperson, these are but a few of the concerns regarding this Bill. But nonetheless, the FF Plus will sceptically support this Bill today. Thank you.
Ms K M MUTHWA: Hon Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP and all the hon members, I greet you all. The EFF is the political party that has established a gender-based violence, GBV desk.
Through our GBV desk we are always on the side of the victims fighting and holding police to account to fight GBV. We have even demanded the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, to establish a division that will focus on complaints against police who victimized GBV victims and refused to open cases for them.
As the EFF, all structures in all branches, regions, provinces and national are involved in initiatives to fight GBV. All EFF offices in regions and provinces have established GBV comfort centres, where survivors of GBV can approach our EFF offices for assistance with counselling and referral to appropriate facilities.
While we support this establishment in principle, the EFF will not wait for the National Council on Gender-Based Violence and Femicide. We have already started the work that the ANC government failed to do in the past 30 years in government.
When we take over the power after 29 May, we are going to continue with practical programmes that prioritise victims.
An HON MEMBER: Ha, ha, ha, you wish.
Ms K M MUTHWA: Yes, we are definitely ... [Inaudible] ... femicide. The EFF supports the National Council on Gender- Based Violence and Femicide Bill. I submit.
IsiZulu:
Nk M DLAMINI: Kubo, Kubo, buholi[leadership.]! Kubo! Phambili EFF, phambili!
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Can we have order please hon Dlamini. Can we continue and we will now call hon Ndongeni to make a declaration.
An HON MEMBER: Is she still alive? [Interjections]
An HON MEMBER: We object whatever Ndongeni will be saying.
IsiXhosa:
Nksz N NDONGENI: Hee, hayi niyaphapha ndicela nithule.
English:
Hon Deputy Chairperson, hon members of the House, in response to the President’s declaration labelling the gender-based violence and femicide as the new pandemic, the South African government recognised the urgent need for action, collaborating closely with the citizens. The government in initiating a stakeholder’s inclusive approach, invites civil society to join forces to strategise with the government to address this pressing issue.
This collaborative effort resulted in the development of the national strategy aimed at swiftly responding to the crisis at hand. Ensuring society’s full engagement with the strategy is paramount in confronting the daunting issue of gender-based violence and femicide. The ANC emphatically supports the swift implementation of the ANC strategic plan on gender-based violence, emphasising the importance of involvement from all pertinent stakeholders. This collaborative endeavour is
essential for aspiring to reshape South Africa into a harmonious and unified nation.
To facilitate this collective effort, the District Development Model and other intergovernmental platforms must take a lead role in orchestrating these initiatives, collaborating closely with the vital entities like justice and law enforcement agents. We firmly believe that this Bill serves as a robust mechanism for coordinating our endeavours to combat gender- based violence and femicide in a comprehensive manner.
Central to this co-ordination is the establishment of a national council with both provincial and regional presence, ensuring a decentralised approach to addressing gender-based violence and femicide, GBVF. Additionally, we advocate for empowering this organisation to have a deliberate interest in rural areas, acknowledging that the challenges faced in this context may differ significantly and require tolerant strategies by incorporating provincial and regional representative and empowering a rural focus. This will help to address GBVF from this device perspective and effectively tackling its complex dynamics.
This multi-phase approach is essential in our collective efforts to end GBVF and promote a safer and more equitable society for all. While the establishment of this Council is crucial, it is imperative for everyone to recognise that the battle against gender-based violence and femicide is a collective responsibility that involves every citizen. It is essential to understand that our freedom and enjoyment of rights are inherently linked to the safety and freedom of all segments of society, in particular women in the context.
Therefore, it is incumbent upon everyone to actively engage in efforts to end GBVF, fostering a society where everyone can live without fear and fully enjoy their rights. This inclusive approach underscores the significance of unity and solidarity in our fight against GBVF, emphasising the shared responsibility we all bear in creating a safer and more equitable society for all.
IsiXhosa:
Sekela Sihlalo, uyayazi ukuba bonke aba bantu bathethayo kuquka nelungu elihloniphekileyo uDe Bruyn akukho nanye imini athe wabonakala ngayo ekomitini, kodwa uzibona enakho
ukuphatha. Akasokuze aphathe. Andisathethi ke ngaba banezinto ezibomvu kuye kuba mnyama kubo endaweni yokuba kukhanye.
ILUNGU ELIHLONIPHEKILEYO: Uqalile ke. [Uwele-wele]
An HON MEMBER: the ANC has a tolerance for GBV and now we are tired. [Interjections.]
Debate concluded.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
NATIONAL YOUTH DEVELOPMENT AGENCY AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)
Mr E Z NJADU: Good afternoon again, hon Deputy Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces. The report of the Select Committee on Health and Social Service on the National Youth Development Agency Amendment Bill [B13B–2022], Section 75 dated 8 March 2024. The Select Committee on Health and Social Services having considered the subject of the National Youth
Development Agency Amendment Bill [B13B–2022], Section 75 referred to it and reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
The process was followed. The National Youth Development Agency Amendment Bill, [B13B–2022], Section 75 was referred to the committee on the 5 December 2023. The national Department on Women, Youth Persons with Disabilities briefed the committee on the 6 February 2024. Public comment was requested via various parliamentary platforms from 10 January 2024 to the 9 February 2024. On the 18 March 2024, the committee deliberated on the received written submissions, then finalized and agreed to the Bill. Therefore, hon Deputy Chairperson, the report to be considered. Thank you very much.
Declaration(s) of Vote:
Mr M R BARA: Deputy Chair, one of the main tasks of the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, is to facilitate and champion youth development with all sectors of society, in a country with one of the highest youth unemployment rates in the world. However, the agency has since failed to transform the lives of young people and women in particular, a norm for this failing government.
It has been more than a decade that the agency existed, yet the youth continue to live in a perpetual state of despair, faced with excessively high burden of unemployment, where graduates suffer in every corner of our society finding themselves without basic socio-economic support due to rampant corruption and cadre deployment.
The Bill allows for an increase in the number of board members and their term of service, which does not help young people to reach their goals and gain more access to opportunities to improve their lives and livelihood. The addition of racial quotas will no doubt take away opportunities from young people.
Youth in rural areas are out of reach to what the NYDA offers. We need more officers around the country so that the benefit of the NYDA reaches more youth, so that many more young people in areas where there are no jobs will be able to get opportunities. Too many young people do not know the services the NYDA offers.
Recently, I came to know of a young woman from kuQumbu in the Eastern Cape, who travelled to Pretoria with the hope of
furthering her studies at Tshwane University of Technology. Sadly, she did not get funding from NSFAS and was left with no choice but to travel back to the Eastern Cape. To do what? Be depressed and feel sorry for herself for something that is totally out of her hands? Had she had opportunities from the NYDA she could gain more skills and find something better to do while navigating her way back to her dream of studying for her degree.
This is what a Bill should seek to address and not create structural positions for friends and cadres in the name of our struggling youth. Anything that does not contribute to resolving our staggering unemployment challenges will not be supported by the DA. I thank you, Deputy Chairperson.
Mr S F DU TOIT: House Chair, as with everything that the ANC does, all is not what it seems. The National Youth Development Agency advocates that it is there to inculcate a culture of service by supporting youth to participate constructively in a nation building activities. To include young people and understanding of their role in promotion of civic awareness and national reconstruction.
Afrikaans:
Indien mens die skynkors oopbreek, word die ware Jakob ongelukkig ontbloot. Die agentskap poog om jeug op al drie vlakke van regering, deur middel van verskillende programme blootstelling te gee, maar slegs sekeres kry geleenthede en verdeeldheid word geskep.
Ongelukkig, bly die fokus, soos met alle planne, wat die ANC maak, op transformasie in kleinletters geskryf, terwyl dit in praktyk in drukskif deurgevoer word - ekonomiese transformasie, rasse klassifikasie.
Die ANC het tot op hede slegs daarin geslaag om als waaraan die hand geslaan word, van werkend tot disfunksioneel te transformeer.
Die ekonomiese transformasie het tot gevolg dat die ekonomie met ’n positiewe groei tot onder rommelstatus getransformeer was, tot so mate, dat Suid-Afrika met die hoogste werkloosheidsyfer onder jeug ooit sit.
English:
The Integrated Youth Development Strategy that forms part of the National Youth Development Agency doesn’t shy away from boasting that it’s aimed at promoting greater participation by black people.
Afrikaans:
Die spulletjie kan letterlik hulself nie help nie. Gelukkig is daar jeug in Suid-Afrika wat, ten spyte van hierdie selektiewe swart bevoordeling, sonder regeringshulp juis kop bo water hou, en bo die onderdrukkende omstandighede uitstyg. Boerejeug het oor dekades heen bewys dat ’n onderdrukkende regering, beperkte werksgeleenthede en blatante rasisme van die regering teenoor hulle, hul nie sal ontmoedig nie.
Wat hierdie regering moet besef is dat regulasies nie jou wese verander nie, nie die kultuur van leer, werk en bou kan vernietig nie, en nie die vlam van geloof en vertroue, wat in ons harte brand, kan uitdoof nie.
Druk en spanning bring die beste in ons voort, mits ons gewortel in geloof, die hoop behou. Ek sien met ’n opgewonde afwagting daarna uit, om te sien hoe die boerejeug, wat nie deur die regering bevoordeel word nie, hul toekoms in hul eie
hande neem en die ANC op 29 Mei 2024 van die tafel af vee. Dankie.
Ms S B LEHIHI: Chairperson, with unemployment rate of 41,2%, South Africa has more than 10,2 million young people aged 15 to 24 years who are not in school, not in training, and also not at work. The young people of Maquassi Hills, Rustenburg, Madibeng, Greater Taung, Ditsobotla and Mahikeng, woke up every day with no hope of going to school, no hope of getting some form of training or hope to earn a living. The young people of Nyanga, Khayelitsha, ... [Inaudible.] ... in the Western Cape have completely lost all hope and are now turning to crime, joining gangs, substance abuse and gambling. But we are here today to debate what has now become a tender administrative desk of ANC Youth League.
A body envisioned by young people who once had the creativity, youthfulness and ambition is now reduced to a discovery equally less creative use leak of the liberation movement. The young people across our provinces have not seen, heard or received any intervention from the NYDA. The NYDA Bill should concern itself with the question of jobs. Young people want
jobs, and the NYDA should be obsessed with jobs for young people.
The NYDA’s primary function should answer the question of how and where the jobs for young people will come from. The function of the NYDA should answer the question of how young people will participate in localization and massive industrial development. There must be NYDA offices in all municipalities with proper stationery, high speed internet and access to information that leads to the establishment of small businesses and manufacturing. There is nothing in this amendment that will stop the appointment and deployment of highly unqualified semiliterate members of ANC Youth League NEC. Many of whom do not even possess any post-secondary qualifications. The EFF rejects the Bill.
Setswana:
Ke a leboga, Modulasetilo.
Ms N E NKOSI: Deputy Chairperson, the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, holds a prominent position in addressing youth unemployment and promoting ownership in the context of South Africa’s pressing problems with unemployment,
particularly among the youth. The NYDA’s efforts focus on job creation, supporting entrepreneurship and providing career development programmes. Recognising the importance of the NYDA underlines its role as a catalyst for economic inclusion by equipping young people with the necessary tools and resources to sustain their livelihoods. The agency’s initiative not only contributes to individual success stories, but also plays a critical role in the nation’s broader economic progress.
Hon Chairperson, the proposed amendment plays a vital role in reshaping how the NYDA addresses youth challenges. The amendment to the National Youth Development Agency Act aims primarily to tackle the obstacles hindering the fulfilment of its expansive legislative mandate and to enhance the provision of youth development services.
This Bill is essential to align the agency with the directives of the ANC-led government regarding its establishment to address public concerns about its lack of visibility to refine its broad mandate for greater focus and to streamline service delivery for optimal effectiveness. This proposed Bill aims to actualise the concept of an inclusive co-operative and rural focused NYDA. It is envisioned that this legislation will pave
the way for a scenario where the NYDA is accessible to all irrespective of geographic location or political affiliation.
By prioritising accessibility and collaboration, the NYDA will be better equipped to make a meaningful impact in both rural and urban settings. Furthermore, this Bill is anticipated to foster a more inclusive NYDA that is committed to supporting youth development across the board without discrimination based on political allegiance.
Hon Chairperson, the ANC endorses this Bill, viewing it as a direct response to pleas of every day South African youth. Key to the Bill’s merit is its emphasis on optimising service delivery, allowing the NYDA to concentrate on effectively meeting the needs of young people. Additionally, the proposed amendment to refocus the agency’s objectives towards initiating, designing and piloting social economic programmes and projects aimed at empowering the youth is deemed crucial. These adjustments are seen as pivotal and enabling the NYDA to assume a more impactful role in youth development. This holds paramount significance in fulfilling the ANC’s aims of eradicating unemployment.
IsiZulu:
O-Du Toit vele bazophupha.
English:
Let them dream. The 29th of May is coming whether they like it or not, they will keep on making statements ...
IsiZulu:
... ukuthi uyeza umhlaka-29 May. Vele uzofika u-29 May kodwa angeke bawathole amandla okubusa.
English:
Whether ...
IsiZulu:
... bayaweseka lo ...
English:
Thank you very much, Chair, I submit. [Time expired.]
VOTING:
Debate concluded.
Declarations of votes made on behalf of the Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus, Economic Freedom Fighters and African National Congress.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
The Council Adjourned at 16:34.