Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 20 Feb 2024
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
TUESDAY, 20 FEBRUARY 2024
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Watch here: Plenary
The House met at 14:00.
House Chairperson Mr C T Frolick took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
REVENUE LAWS AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill and Report)
There was no debate.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chairperson, I move:
That the Report be adopted.
Motion agreed to.
Report accordingly adopted.
REVENUE LAWS AMENDMENT BILL
(First Reading debate)
Xitsonga:
Tat M J MASWANGANYI: Mutshamaxitulu, vaholobye lava nga kona na swirho hinkwaswo swo endla milawu ...
English:
... the Revenue Laws Amendment Bill was tabled in Parliament by the Minister of Finance on 01 November 2023, together with the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement, MTBPS. The introduction of the Bill ushers in what is called and popularly known as the two-pot retirement system. The caring ANC government is introducing the two-pot reform to address the challenges faced by members of retirement funds without them resigning in order to withdraw their pensions. A member will have access to a cash portion, that is, the savings pot, while preserving the rest of the retirement, that is, the
retirement pot. That is the reason why it is called two-port retirement system.
The two-pot retirement system reform’s primary objective is to provide flexibility for fund members to access their retirement savings during emergencies without necessitating resignation. The traditional retirement systems primarily focus on long-term savings often lacking the adaptability to address immediate financial crisis. The saving pot is intended to serve as a safety net rather than a primary source of income. The two-pot retirement system is meant to assist people to cope with the challenges of financial distress. This reform strikes a balance between long-term security and immediate needs recognising life’s unpredictability. It permits fund members to access a portion of their savings during crisis such as those seen during the COVID-19 challenges. This change ensures to the retirement system remains responsive to diverse financial needs supporting both long-term financial security and immediate assistance during emergencies.
Hon Chair, there was adequate participation by the public. The committee was briefed by the National Treasury on the draft
Revenue Laws Amendment Bill, RLAB, on 29 August, and held public hearings on 06-08 September 2023. On 25 October, the National Treasury presented its detailed draft responses to the submissions made by the stakeholders to the committee addressing all the comments made during the public hearings. Overall, 287 submissions were received on the two-pot retirement system. Indeed, there was adequate public participation.
The rationale is that this reform aims to encourage preservation before retirement and provide access to funds in emergencies. The reform permits section 37(d) deductions under the Pensions Act of 1956 against both vested component and the retirement component of the fund in incentivising savings through additional deductions.
The introduction of the savings pot is a response to the need for individuals to have flexible access to their retirement funds for various reasons even before reaching the official retirement age. This provision aims to provide financial security and flexibility enabling members to make withdrawals without the requirement of ending their employment. The system
is structured to balance responsible financial behaviour with individual needs.
Under the proposed framework retirement funds will establish a new segment called the savings pot or savings component. This component is intended to offer members the capability to access a portion of their retirement savings before reaching retirement age. Members can make a single withdrawal from the savings pot within a specific year of assessment providing them with the freedom to choose when to access these funds based on their financial circumstances.
In cases where a member resigns from employment and has already made their single withdrawal of that tax year, an additional withdrawal may be permitted if the member’s gross interests in the savings pot is less than R2 000. This condition outlines the circumstances for accessing additional funds. The ability to withdraw from the savings pot applies on a fund per fund basis. This means that members can access their savings independently from each fund or contract they are associated with.
In case of death of a member, beneficiaries have two options. Beneficiaries can opt for a lump sum payment of the benefits or transfer it to the retirement component. Alternatively, beneficiaries may choose to transfer the benefit to the retirement component of their retirement fund. From there, they can receive the benefits as annuity payments over a specified period.
In introducing the retirement pot, the retirement pot is designed to ensure that a substantial portion of the retirement savings is preserved until retirement providing a secure income stream in the form of annuities during the retiree’s later years. When a member reaches the retirement age and decides to retire, the retirement pot is to be paid out in the form of an annuity. Annuities provide regular payments to retirees offering a steady stream of income during retirement years. Withdrawals from the retirement component become accessible as a lump sum when an individual ceases to be a tax resident of South Africa. This means that if an individual is no longer considered to be a tax resident of South Africa, they have the option to withdraw the funds as a lump sum. The option of accessing a lump sum upon ceasing to be a tax resident is subject to a three-year rule.
The committee agrees the implementation date to be 01 September 2024, considering the explanation provided by the Minister of Finance. The committee gives its approval to the new date of 01 September and endorses all the consequential amendments in the Bill arising from this amendment. To cater for the two-pot retirement system, retirement funds will have to amend their rules. This will be effected by the adoption of the Pension Funds Amendment Bill. Chief Whip, we will have to come back before Parliament rises to pass the Pension Funds Amendment Bill to effect the two-pot system. Retirement funds will be required to submit amended rules to the Financial Sector Conduct Authority for registration and approval.
The committee recommends a robust public awareness and education campaign to inform retirement fund members about the features and benefits of the proposed two-pot retirement regime. This will empower individuals to make informed decisions about their retirement savings. The committee also proposes that a new retirement system undergoes periodic reviews and adjustments as needed to adapt to changing economic conditions, demographics and member needs. Regular assessments will ensure the system remains effective and relevant. The committee also urges retirement fund
administrators to build capacity by investing in human capital and systems in order to be ready to implement the new system by 01 September 2024.
We had a very serious debate during the public hearings where pension fund administrators were saying that they are not ready to implement this on 01 March this year. It was a very few big fund managers who were ready. We agreed with the Treasury, the SA Revenue Service, Sars, and them that between then until 01 September they should have built capacity by training the human capital, introduce the relevant systems – whether information technology, IT, or whatever that they apply to administer because this is not a new system. It was introduced by the Treasury as early as 2020. Some of them have never been involved in transactions of this nature, and they have agreed.
In conclusion, in reviewing the feedback received, it is evident that there is substantial support for the proposed reform. Hon Manyi support this one. Hon Buthelezi also supports. Even Dr George and De Villiers support it unless if they might have had their caucus mandates overnight. But in the committee, we were agreeing. You will never know with
overnight caucuses saying don’t support because it’s election time. Last year was not election time, and we were agreeing on everything.
While some stakeholders have raised specific concerns or objections regarding the implementation of certain aspects of the reform, they generally endorsed the overarching direction of the reform. Hon Chairperson, I move for the adoption of the report.
Xitsonga:
Ndza khensa.
Dr D T GEORGE: Hon Chairperson, in 2020, I proposed the Privates Members’ Bill in response to the devastating financial consequences of the COVID-19 pandemic on hard working South African households. The core concept was that members should be able to leverage their pension fund assets to their own advantage during their working lifetime without having to resign from their employment and therefore making their future financial prospects even worse.
The National Treasury undertook more comprehensive proposal given that the much-promised Pension Fund Reform was already decades overdue, from an uncaring government just disinterested in the plight of households battling an emerging government induced cost of living crisis. When the Pension Funds Act was enacted in 1956, funds were usually defined benefit arrangements. Members received a specific amount from retirement calculated on a formula based on final salary and a number of years’ service.
One of the disadvantages of defined benefit funds was that the withdrawal benefits were usually limited to the members own contribution with employers retaining the company’s contribution to the fund.
In the 1980s’ the trade unions preshered employers to convert the funds to defined contribution funding arrangements. Under these members received the retirement benefit based on their own and the employer contributions plus investment return.
Crucially the investment risk passed from the employer to the member. There is no set formula and if markets perform poorly, members could be significantly worse of.
Given that members carry the risk, they should have control over their own assets. This trend continued into the 1990’s and the employers became the main drivers precisely because they were keen to offload investment risk. In many instances, workers were transferred out leading a small group of management in the defined benefit fund. The fund was then closed, and the few remaining members enjoyed the benefits of substantial surpluses that actually belonged to all of the members of the fund.
Subsequent legislation addressed supper supportionment and highlighted the need to ensure that the effective legislation is in place before major changes to pension funds.
The National Treasury did not move quickly in developing the proposals it promised and members are suffering the consequences of delays in reform. National Treasury never had any mandate to negotiate a postponement that left the industry under the impression that the implementation will be March 2025.
The committee decided to retain the recommended date of March 2024. This was the very first time that the committee changed
a Money Bill under the provisions of the Money Bills Amendment Procedures and related Amendment Act.
This legislation was enacted in 2009 to provide for amendments to the Budget as it would be expected in a robust democracy.
This will happen more regularly when the ANC loses its majority in this House this year! We will use this process to cut the tax on fuel and remove Vat from bone and chicken, been, tin beef, wheat flour, margarine, peanut butter, baby food, tea, coffee and soup powder if the Minister does not provide this relief from the cost-of-living crises in his Budget tomorrow.
After the consultation with the Minister, the committee agreed to a compromised reform implementation of 1 September 2024.
The pension fund environment will change fundamentally and has far reaching implications for members, employers and the retirement industry. This pension fund reform known as the two pot system, actually is initially a three pot system comprised of the vested component that is the value of the fund on the day before implementation, a savings component that member will be able to access prior to retirement and a retirement
component that will not be accessible until retirement essentially a compulsive preservation.
To generate economic jobs and growth, we need to encourage savings. There is no reason then now evolving pension fund vehicle cannot be a means to also encourage additional discretionary savings.
The Pension Funds Amendment Bills that is vital to the reform was only introduced on the 30th of January 2024. This delay further demonstrated that the ANC-led government simply does not care about battling South African households that could have had some relief next month in March that is now will wait until September because government was sleeping at the wheel yet again. If the Bill had been processed with the urgency it deserved funds would have been able to start preparing for January to be ready for implementation on 1 September 2024. On implementation are one of the amounts of 10% to the members value of the fund limited to R30 000 will be available to members. This amount should have been higher and the tax lower than the marginal rate that would be applied.
The DA supports this enabling Revenue Laws Amendment Bill and will propose that the Pension Fund Amendment Bill must also expand pension loans abilities beyond its current restrictions to home loans. Members will know why they are still unable to get relief from their own pension fund asset when they go to the ballot box shortly. Government did not rush to help when urgent action was possible and desperately needed and now the people will not rush to help them. Thank you, hon House Chairperson.
Mr M MANYI: Hon House Chairperson, firstly the EFF Thanks members of the public and various stakeholders that participated in the development of this Bill prior to it tabling by the Minister. The EFF notes that the two-pot retirement system’s primary objective is to provide flexibility to fund members to access their retirement savings during emergencies without necessitating resignations.
Traditional retirement systems primarily focussed on long-term savings often lacking the adoptability to address immediate financial crisis.
The EFF engaged with this Bill with mixed feelings. Firstly, we are happy that this Bill will provide some form of relief to the working class. Therefore, hon Maswanganyi, we are supporting this Bill to be processed into law. However, we are very unhappy with the fundamental reasons that put us here. We are here because the Sixth Administration under Mr Ramaphosa has destroyed the economy, hopes and livelihoods.
What are the facts? This administration when it took over, we had particular set of indices. All those indices have plunged.
What are those indices? If you look at the national debt, we went from a national debt of 166 billion dollars and we are now sitting at almost double the amount at 298 billion dollars.
We are sitting at food basket that was at around 3 000 and now is around 5 000. What a mess!
We are sitting with a crime rate of that has always been escalating from 57 people killed a day, hon Cele to day 75 people are killed a day. Therefore, more families have no people to look after them.
We are sitting with a rand dollar that has depreciated from R14 today - you can check it on google, it is R19. What a mess!
We are sitting with unemployment rate confirmed today by the way than unemployment in 2019 was 29%, this morning has been confirmed at 32,1%. New figure. We are looking at the youth unemployment in the last quarter that was sitting at 43%, this morning we are told that the youth unemployment has risen to 43,3%. Total disaster!
Tintswalo is living in a shack, pit toilet and dirty water on the tap, if any water at all.
When the EFF takes power in a couple of months’ time, this is what we will do.
The EFF-led government will establish a state-owned asset management firm to manage all municipal pension funds. Listen to the bright ideas! It will ensure that all buildings under the public works are insured under the state-owned insurance company. It will consolidate all municipal pensions to be administered under the new state-owned company. It will
increase the mandate of Public Investment Corporation, PIC, to include businesses that make money through the state. It will amend Pension Fund Act to increase investment in private equity for infrastructure development, small medium enterprises and land transformation. It will abolish the clause in the Pensions Fund Act that says once the spouse of the main beneficiary passes away that that pension fund now belongs to some white-owned pension fund scheme. All pension funds must trickle down to generation-to generation.
The EFF-led government will ensure that 80% of all retirement funds are administered and run by black-owned entities. This will be done by giving retirement fund licences to black-owned entities because we are not apologetic. It will open up access to pension and retirement fund management to black-owned entities, instead of closing them like prudential authority is busy doing.
The Government Employee Pension Fund, GEPF, of South Africa handles more that R2,5 trillion of pensions of teachers, nurses and the police. These pensioners are 80% black. Whether you like it or not.
The EFF-led government will force prudential authority to offer licences to black-owned insurance companies. Today they are busy trying to close Ithala Bank. What a disaster. All lives in all wards under the EFF will be insured by black- owned insurance entities.
The EFF-led government will pass a special appropriation Bill allocating R100 billion to the Sovereign Wealth Fund in the 2025-26 Budget. It will pass a Special Appropriation Bill to write off some of the debts in state-owned companies and to convert the PIC debt into equity.
In conclusion, you can see that the EFF is ready to govern. The time for the ANC is gone! Thank you, hon House Chairperson.
IsiZulu:
Inkosi E M BUTHELEZI: Inkosi yesizwe! Mhlonishwa Sihlalo, iqembu le-IFP liwaseka lo Mthethosivivinywa ophambi kwale Ndlu namhlanje futhi sinethenjana lokuthi kuzosiza engcindezini edalwa umnotho ontengayo. Kodwa ngiyafisa ukuveza obala lokho okucashile okungaxoxawa yilo Mthethosivivinywa. Isikhwama sezimpesheni siyinto ephusile futhi siyavumelana nesisho
sesintu esithi, “Isisu sibekelwa ngaphandle.” Lokhu kusho ukuthi kukhokonke onakho, noma kungakanani, kufanele ucabangele isikhathi sangomuso ongasazi.
Kodwa indlela uHulumeni oholwa i-ANC ohambise ngayo izinto yindlela yomkhonyovu nencithakalo, okuyindlela ephambene ngqo nalesi sisho engakufanisa nokudla imbewu. Lo Mthethosivivinywa usho ukuthini? Uhulumeni wethu usihlinzele ezibini njengengcuba. Ulalise phansi ngesisu umnotho wezwe ngangokuba abantu bakithi abakwazi ukuzisiza nokufeza izidingo zansuku zonke.
Lo Hulumeni uhlulekile ukudala amathuba emisebenzi kanye nokuphucula izinga lale ekhona ukuze abantu bakithi bahlomule ngendlela efanele ukubhekana nezidingo zabo. Nakuba lo Mthethosivivinywa uhlose okuhle kodwa kuyiqiniso ukuthi ngabantu bakithi anbampisholo nabahluphekayo abazobhekana nembibizane esikhathini esizayo ngoba yibo abazogijimela ukuyoncosula ebhodweni lokonga bezwa ukuhlupheka, hhayi laba ongxiwankulu abayisizathu sokuhlupheka kwethu.
Phela, Sihlalo, abantu bakithi abampisholo abangaholi amaholo asezingeni. Abantu bakithi abampisholo abangakwazi ukukhokhela
izindleko zezidingo zabo nalezo eziphuthumayo. Abantu bakithi abahluphekayo abangakwazi nokukhokhela ngisho ezokwelashwa nokuyibona abazosizakala kuleli bhodwe. Lawa amaqiniso ... [Ubuwelewele.] ...
English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Buthelezi, will you just take your seat, please? Hon members, it seems the interpreting services are not functioning at all. What I hear is the conversation amongst the interpreters and not the interpretation itself. They must please sort it out. Secondly, may I also ask ICT support that there is a member that continues to switch on her microphone on the platform. Any member that is not being recognised; those microphones should simply be switched off. Can I get an indication from the National Assembly Table if the interpretations services are now functional. [Interjections.] In fact, you should have listened with me. You can’t listen now. You won’t hear anything. As soon as the debate starts and goes into one of the other languages, it is the responsibility of the support staff to follow that interpretation. Hon Buthelezi, can you continue now so that we can hear ...
IsiZulu:
Inkosi E M BUTHELEZI: Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo ... angamukelekile nesifike kuwo yilo Hulumeni ongabakhathalele abantu obathumele bona. Ngesikhathi abantu bakithi bephoqeleka ukusebenzisa imali yomhlalaphansi bengekahlali phansi ngenxa yezimo eziphuthumayo njengezempilo, ongxiwankulu bakwazi bona ukukhokhela ama-medical aid ezinja zabo emakhaya kunokukhokhela omama nobaba bethu abasebenza emaxhibeni nasezingadini.
Ngakho lokhu kokuthi sizokwazi ukusebenzisa le mali esiyibekele umhlalaphansi singakafiki lapho akuyona into esingazigqaja ngayo njengale Ndlu ngoba kusho ukwehluleka kwethu ukudala amathuba afanele okusiza abantu bakithi.
Ngakhoke namhlanje ngembula izinqe ngibeka obala phambi kwabantu bakithi ukuthi nazi izinto ezingamaqiniso lo Mthethosivivinywa ongakhulumi ngazo.
I-IFP iyabazi ubunzima babantu bakithi okungakho siweseka lo Mthethosivivinywa kodwa siyabacela ukuthi bangagijimeli ekukhipheni izimali zabo ngenxa yokuhlupheka kube kuphela yizizathu ezinqala nezingakwazi ukulawuleka. Mabazi ukuthi
noma kungakanani ukuyinzuzo namhlanje abangase bakuthole kodwa esikhathini esizayo bazobhekana nenhlekelele.
Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo, siyazi sonke ukuthi sifike kanjani la, asikho isizathu esidlula lesi sokuba kulolu khetho esiya kulo sisebenzise ithuba lethu lokulaxaza umata lo onguHulumeni osifake kulolu bhuku esikulo. Masizikhethele thina njengesizwe uHulumeni wethu ozosebenzela thina ngesiminya nozobeka phambili izidingo zethu njengesizwe kanye nezizukulwane ezizayo.
Iqiniso, Sihlalo, lithi, uma abantu bakithi bekwazi ukuthatha kuleyo madlana abayibeke ebhodweni lokonga namhlanje ukuze bazisize, bophephelaphi ngomuso uma bengesenawo Amandla okusebenza ukuze baligcwalise na. I-IFP iyaweseka lo Mthethosivivinywa noma sinawo lowo muzwa, Sihlalo, wukuthi ukuhluleka kwaleli qembu elibusayo yikho okusibeka lapha.
Aingazigqaji kodwa masenze okufanele ngoba iqiniso, Sihlalo, noba ngisho nje, abanye kule Ndlu abaseka lo Mthethosivivinywa ngeke baze balokothe bakhiphe izimali zabo ngoba batshale izimali ezingaphezu kokwenza eziyobonwa yizingane zabo.
Abakithi abahluphekayo abazobe begijimela la. Ngenze isibonelo
esihle kabi la uma ngithi mina abantu abakule Ndlu banezisebenzi ezibasebenzelayo emaxhibeni nasezingadini kodwa abayazi impilo yabo injani bakwazi ukufaka imali kuma-medical aid ezinja emakhaya abo okushoyo ukuthi sikuphi nezwe uma sila.
English:
So, we cannot be proud of things we should not be proud of. We must help our people but let us encourage them not to tap into their future investment is never wise.
Mr W W WESSELS: Hon House Chairperson, pension reform and adequate pension reform have been overdue for many years. On the one hand, millions of South Africans do not adequately save for their retirement and then become dependent on the government for social services and an old age pension, increasing the pressure on the fiscus which is unsustainable. On the other hand, because of this uncaring ANC government that allowed state capture, rampant corruption and mismanagement which destroyed the economy, South Africans are now in such a position that they cannot survive without access to their pension funds.
The economy has failed, and we have a cost-of-living crisis. This two-pot system should have been in place already with COVID-19, but the uncaring government was too slow to respond to the actual needs of South Africans who lost their jobs and who lost their businesses. This should have been in place then already.
Afrikaans:
Ons moet Suid-Afrikaners aanmoedig om nie onverantwooordelik te wees wanneer hierdie wetswysigings in plek tree nie. Die nood is groot en dit is verstaanbaar dat daar toegang tot hierdie besparings moet wees, maar dit gaan nie vir die oudag sorg nie. Al is daar so ’n groot finansiële druk, weens hierdie krisis oor die koste van lewe, wat ons tans ervaar, moet ons nog steeds soveel as moontlik vir die oudag probeer sorg, want anders is daar groter probleme op die horison.
English:
The government should not use these reforms for short-term gains and to be populist but should also encourage the people out there to still save for their retirement. We do need a caring government that responds quicker, whose legislative reform does not take decades on end and who can respond to
crises but who most of all is there to protect the economy and the free market system so that there are opportunities for the people out there. We can build a new South African dispensation with opportunities and with a good economy which provides solutions but then we need to get rid of the ANC. I thank you.
Mr S N SWART: House Chair, the ACDP understands the severe financial constraints faced by households and the fact that many people have been forced to resign to access their savings with dire long-term consequences. To tackle these issues the two-pot retirement system is proposed, and under this system, and as is set out in this Bill, contributions and their growth within retirement funds remain tax-exempt. Individuals will not be taxed on their contributions or the growth of those contributions. This, the ACDP supports.
This pension reform will, in our view, strike a balance between long-term security and immediate needs, recognising life’s unpredictability. It permits fund members to access a portion of their savings during a crisis as those seen during the COVID-19 challenges. The change also ensures that the retirement system remains responsive to diverse financial
needs, supporting both long-term financial security and immediate assistance during such emergencies as pointed out by other speakers.
One of the significant areas of contention was the proposed implementation date and it is regrettable that the Pension Fund Reform Bill, as pointed out, was only tabled in January. The debate during the committee’s hearings was that the initial date of 1 March 2024 should not be applicable because the required pension form structures would not be in place in time. Following consultations with the Minister of Finance, the committee agreed on a revised date of 1 September 2024.
The ACDP supports the comment in the committee report of a broad, I think the committee used the word robust, public awareness and education campaign to inform retirement fund members about the features and benefits of the proposed two- pot retirement regime. The last thing one wants is for individuals to withdraw those funds to the detriment of their long-term savings. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Swart, may I just request ICT to switch off those microphones immediately. There
is another discussion happening there that has nothing to do with the business in front of us. Please, continue.
Mr S N SWART: House Chair, it is as other speakers have alluded to that pension and those people who are pensioners and those that are employed must take great care and must be able to make an informed decision about their retirement savings before they access it because, as we know, there’s a little proportion of people of South Africa that have sufficient funding in their retirement schemes to look after them for the long term and old age. We appreciate that there may be financial constraints and emergencies now that necessitate a drawing. To repeat, the ACDP supports this report and Bill and retirement pension reform in general.
Thank you.
Mr B N HERRON: House Chair, the amendments proposed to South Africa’s current rigid retirement schemes are sensible and timeous. They are sensible because it is ... [Inaudible.] ... and experience in the labour force resigned from the employment in order to access a portion of their retirement funds in times of extreme financial distress. It is timeous because South Africa is in an economic growth crisis with high
cost of living and high interest rates, which is causing severe financial distress.
Just yesterday, the Altron FinTech Household Resilience Index was released showing this South African households remain under severe financial pressure, mainly as a result of restrictive monetary policy. And the worst performing indicator was the ratio between household disposable income and household debt costs.
The new two-port retirement savings regime will bring some flexibility and relief to South Africans who have contributed to a private or an employer retirement scheme, and who at times find themselves needing access to some of their own retirement savings.
The new regime also continues to prioritise the need for retirement savings to be protected with the restrictions on the access to the savings component of the two-pots but demonstrates a reasonable understanding of the unintended consequences of the extremely rigid current regime. We support the Bill. Thank you.
Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Chairperson, I have to agree with my colleague. And the European Union had to intervene in this respect. Thank you very much. But the latest statistics say that 29 092 people, two-thirds of them women and children, were massacred. And yes, indeed, this war is not about Hamas, but about Gaza’s fresh groundwater, its farmland, oil and gas. That is what this is about.
The National Freedom Party welcomes the report of the Standing Committee on Finance on the Bill to amend the tax laws.
Chairperson, under normal circumstances we would not support this. But given the circumstances and the situation our citizens are facing in this country, especially the great poverty, and more importantly, unscrupulous financial institutions that recklessly lend money to people, especially civil servants, at high interest rates. I think this will be an important step to prevent this and provide some protection for our employees.
However, this is associated with a certain risk. And we have to realise that if the funds they would withdraw are mismanaged given the circumstances they find themselves in, they will have limited funds available when they retire. So, I
think we need to be aware of that. I think that the department has done everything it can to alleviate the hardships that many of our employees are facing. And we believe that this is indeed a step in the right direction.
But we particularly want to encourage our employees who are going to go in this direction, and I know that many of them have already resigned just to take advantage of this opportunity. This gives them the protection, so they don’t have to resign. But please be careful, because if you go so far as to take these funds and misuse them, you will find yourself in a very difficult situation. The National Freedom Party will support the report tabled here today. Thank you.
Ms P N ABRAHAM: Chairperson, I know it is tempting to come here and politicise everything because of the period. But the ANC is bigger than that. We are very pleased to be in a position today to support the adoption of the Taxation Laws Amendment Bill. It is an important Bill for the more than 15 million working South Africans who contribute to pension funds, provident funds and retirement annuities. Once again, the ANC has proven that it is a caring government.
After the COVID-19 outbreak, we know that it was difficult for workers to withdraw salaries. And there were serious restrictions when it came to putting bread on the table.
Household purchasing power was reduced. Workers had a hard time during the pandemic, with most of them locked in their homes with no salary and no access to pension funds, provident fund or retirement annuities. And with the decline of the economy, they struggled to make ends meet, and as has been said here before, some of them resigned, and the purchasing power of an average worker dropped by 2,9%.
It’s not just a statistic it’s a reminder of the harsh realities that are faced by millions of South Africans. And of course, the casualties in such instances are women. According to the household affordability index, compiled by the Pietermaritzburg economic justice and dignity group, the average household income should be about R5 000 per month. But that is not what happens in the various households with electricity and transportation. People have to spend about 2000 to 3000 in their income bracket. That makes it hard for working people, especially single moms who cannot afford enough nutritious food for their families. I represent you, my
friend here at the EFF. I’m trying to represent you, but it’s very hard to represent you.
The ANC-led government has in its responsiveness created hope for workers, but by enabling workers the ability to access their retirement savings when they need it most. The Revenue Law Amendment Bill, including the Pension Funds Amendment Bill, which we are yet to process will provide a lifeline to the families facing financial distress and uncertainty.
Whether it is to cover medical expenses, pay off debts, or simply put food on the table. The ability to tap into their retirement savings will give the much-needed peace of mind. However, the benefits of these Bills extend far beyond just providing relief in times of crisis. By empowering workers to access their retirement savings, we also unleash a wave of economic activity that has the potential to stimulate growth and prosperity across our nation. Whether it be through investments in small businesses, home improvements, educational opportunities, the infusion of retirement savings into the economy, promises to create jobs, steer innovation and drive sustainable development for years to come.
We fundamentally believe that the two-pot system will boost savings, provide relief to workers and stimulate the economy by amongst others, preserving two-thirds of future savings for retirement and retrenchment. Providing workers with the equivalent of annual 13th cheque in the form of immediate relief. The government has further agreed to an important principle that workers who have been retrenched should continue to have full access to their pension fund, which is very important.
While our economy is on the road to recovery, we need to ensure that we protect workers’ quality of life. And this Bill will ensure that workers can live the lives they work for and deserve. We cannot allow any further delays in implementing these reforms. That would be unjustifiable. Workers are in need now and they need the urgent help they need now.
We applaud the bravery, resilience and fearlessness of our ally Cosatu in their constructive contributions to safeguarding the interests of workers. Unlike some in this House who see no value in the role that workers play in building the nation’s prosperity. We see it, and together with our alliance partners and the ANC as the leader of society, we
will stand up for the interests of workers at all times. I thank you, Chair.
Mr S M JAFTA: Thank you, hon Chair. The Revenue Laws Amendment Bill follows a series of consultations, debates and lobbying with regards to access to retirement savings. Transformative constitutionalism sits at the very heart of this Bill. For the first time in the history of this country’s retirement system, fund members will have access to a portion of their savings.
Hon Chair, the two-pot system will herald a new era in an economy that has low tax-base and high inflation. The Bill is clear that contributions and their growth will remain tax exempt. However, we must remind members that withdrawals will be taxed. We welcome the opt in option for members who have 55 years old and older on March 2021. We note that while South Africa’s life expectancy has improved over the years, there is absolutely nothing amiss about introducing this retirement regime to cushion many fund members from the rising food prices, growing poverty and inequality.
The Bill maintains the application of established practices while providing opportunities for individuals to access their
funds under specific circumstances. Hon Chair, while we note that this Bill is likely to come into effect on 01 September 2024, we nonetheless support it. We pin our hopes on the National Treasury and the Revenue Service to maintain a seamless transition and balanced regulations. I thank you, Chair.
Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chair, Al Jama-ah supports the amendment because it will be a lifeline for those who need it. However, when government throws a lifeline ... in this particular case it must not tax the withdrawal amount. People are withdrawing their money because of hardship and they would obviously not want ... You don’t tax people when there is hardship. They withdraw from their retirement funds because it is a matter of their last resort.
So, that is the concern Al Jama-ah has, that workers will be taxed. Also, there comes a time when you recover and you become financially stable, although you know, in this state of affairs I don’t know if anyone can recover but we have to be optimistic, Chair. That is why, Chair, when times are improving members must be allowed to pay back the money into their funds so that when they eventually reach the retirement
age, then they have sufficient money for retirement. Al Jama- ah supports the amendment. Thank you very much.
Ms W R ALEXANDER: Good afternoon. Today we stand at a pivotal moment in our nation’s journey towards a more equitable and secure future for all. The introduction of this Bill spearheaded by the DA’s hon Dr George comes in response of the profound financial challenges wrought by the COVID-19 pandemic. [Laughter.] As a government we are faced with the profound responsibility of shaping policy which will impact the lives and livelihoods of millions of South Africans.
At the heart of the Bill there is a reform designed to strike a delicate balance between a long term security retirement savings and the pressing needs that individuals might face and unforeseen circumstances. This innovative approach allows for the access of a portion of the retirement savings without the necessity of resignation offering a lifeline in times of crisis while safeguarding the financial future.
The harmonisation of tax treatment, the encouragement of greater preservation of retirement savings and the reduction of charges associated with retirement funds are the foundation
of this Pivotal Bill. These objectives are not merely a legislative mandate, they are a testament to the collective responsibility to create a retirement system that is fair, transparent and accessible to all South Africans. This Bill underscores the dedication, the initiative and accountability of the retirement system to cater for the diverse needs of this country.
However, our work does not end here. We move forward and we have to remain vigilant in our efforts to ensure the successful implementation of the two-pot retirement system. This requires clear and transparent communication with retirement fund members, building capacity within fund administrators and the ongoing research and data collection to inform evidence-based decision-making. The DA’s position on the finances of the country is rooted in the belief that sound economic policies are essential for promoting prosperity, creating opportunity and improving the quality of lives for South Africans. This aligns closely with the objectives of the Revenue Laws Amendment Bill for pension performed.
In closing, let us remember the profound impact that our decision today will have on millions of South Africans. Let us
hold to the values of fairness, equality and solidarity as we work together towards building a prosperous nation. Thank you.
IsiNdebele:
Num G J SKOSANA: Sihlalo ohloniphekileko, aboNgqongqotjhe abahloniphekileko abakhona, amaSekela waboNgqongqotjhe ahloniphekileko, mhlonitjhwa Sosibebhe, malunga ahloniphekileko nesizwe sekhethu, lotjhani.
Sihlalo ohloniphekileko ...
English:
... the African National Congress welcomes the important advances made to the pension funds regulatory regime. The Bill before us is critical in enhancing the transformation of our retirement system and taxation implications that flow with that.
The global evolution of our society has prompted the ANC-led government to make critical interventions to provide the needed support that the vast majority of the people of South Africa require. The lingering effect of Covid-19 and the ongoing Russia and Ukraine conflict are major contributors to
the rising food prices, rising energy prices, rising interest rates and rising inflation that has eroded the disposable income of workers.
It is pivotal to appreciate the journey that this Parliament has travelled in improving the retirement regime for the benefit of workers. Our country has different retirement fund vehicles available to individuals, including pension funds, provident funds, retirement annuity funds, pension preservation funds and provident preservation funds.
Historically, each of these funds had a different tax treatment for contributions alongside different rules for withdrawal. Since 2012 the South African retirement fund has been undergoing fundamental reforms. These reforms include amendments to harmonise the tax treatment of contributions to the different types of funds, measures to increase preservation and reforms to lower charges and improve defaults, governance and market conduct.
Many of these reforms have been implemented, including harmonising the tax treatment of contributions to funds and
preserving provident funds at retirement through annuitisation.
Malunga ahloniphekileko [Hon members], the Bill before us is a pivotal and revolutionary piece of legislation that sets the basis for the full implementation of the amendments to the Pension Funds Act, making provision for the withdrawal of savings from pension funds and provident funds. This has the effect of transforming the pension funds financial landscape of South Africa and will improve the living conditions of millions of workers across the nation in both the private and public sectors.
At the heart of these legislative measures lies a commitment to the wellbeing and financial security of our workers. For too long, many hardworking South Africans have found themselves trapped in financial distress, unable to access the savings they have diligently accumulated throughout their years of work.
The reforms proposed in the Pension Funds Amendment Bill, in conjunction with the Revenue Laws Amendment Bill, introduce the two-pot system which empowers workers to access a third of
their retirement savings when faced with financial difficulties, by allowing workers to draw from a separate pot of funds during times of need. This will provide a crucial safety net for workers grappling with unexpected expenses or emergencies. The relief will make all the difference necessary for families teetering on the brink of financial reign, providing them an opportunity to navigate the difficulties from the economy that is not growing at the pace that it should.
With the high levels of poverty, inequality, rising cost of living and repo rate hikes, the current pension laws only allow workers access to their pension funds when they retire or in the event of losing their job or resigning. As a consequence, many workers opt to resign and cash out their entire pension funds. So, the two-pot reforms offer a positive balance where workers will be able to access up to R30 000 when the law comes into effect from 1 September 2024 and they will continue to do so annually, accessing up to one-third of their contributions that constitute the savings pot. Workers will no longer need to resign to have some access to their pension funds.
So, by closing this loophole, we say we safeguard the integrity of the pension system and protect workers from potentially harmful financial decisions driven by desperation. Instead, this will empower workers to make informed choices about their financial future, secured in the knowledge that their retirement savings are safe and accessible when needed.
In conclusion, the adoption of the Revenue Laws Amendment Bill along with the amendments to the Pension Funds Amendment Bill, represent a significant step forward in the ANC-led government’s ongoing efforts to promote inclusive economic growth and financial inclusion and relieve the burden of financial distress on workers. By embracing these reforms, we reaffirm the commitment to the wellbeing of all South Africans and lay the foundation for a more equitable and prosperous future.
We appreciate the fact that all political parties are supporting this particular Bill, however, it is not necessary for them to include other things that are not relevant; you don’t have to say “but”. For instance, hon George from the DA is telling us about the polls and that the ANC will not be here and stuff like that, but you are not telling us that,
according to the polls, the DA won’t be here governing the Western cape. The latest polls by Wits University show that the DA is going to decline from 56% to 42% here in the Western Cape. So, if you tell us about the polls, you must be consistent and give us comprehensive views about all these polls. Even at national you are not even going to get 20%, according to the same polls.
Well, the EFF, we don’t take them seriously; we know they are always having some fancy, unrealistic, high in the skies ideas that have never been tested anywhere in the world. So, we usually don’t take them seriously.
Well, the IFP we know, Shenge, you are always supportive, but we know that these days because of the moonshot arrangement you tend to fight with us. It is because of the moonshot arrangement; I don’t blame you. However, this moonshot arrangement is against the wishes of Prince Mangosuthu Buthelezi. Prince Mangosuthu Buthelezi’s last wish was for the IFP to work with the ANC, not the DA in a moonshot cabal. This is against the wishes of Prince Mangosuthu Buthelezi. Please reconsider that, hon Shenge, the issue of the moonshot pact.
Hon House Chair, thank you very much. We support the Bill.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE: Hon Chair, the government is very concerned about the levels of savings in this country. And we all know that savings come from the workers, businesses, and yourselves here have several policies. We are concerned because savings are very important for the growth of an economy. Without high rate of savings, it is very difficult to grow an economy. And it is not just savings, you must deploy those savings towards economic growth. The reason why England was the first country to be developed industrially is because they used their savings to grow their economy. So, it is those introductions of private property relations backed by market that enabled England to grow. Spain had a lot of savings, but at the same time - the 16th century - but it could not grow because those savings were used for consumption, particularly by the ruling elite.
Now, we support, obviously, and we have worked very hard to make sure that this Bill is passed so that workers have access to their savings. But in the context of an economy, which is not producing the things that it needs to consume; we import a lot of things, these savings are going to consume things that we don’t produce, because we still have an economy that produces things that we don’t consume and consume things that
we don’t produce. Therefore, we must take seriously the task of industrialization of South Africa so that as and when the workers earn their income either through early withdrawals or through their wages, they can consume things that we produce here in South Africa. Inadequate private savings places a significant strain on individuals who may find themselves without sufficient financial resources to support their retirement years.
Over the years, the government has implemented several reforms to retirement savings legislation aimed at fostering a prudently managed, accessible, cost effective, transparent, and equitable retirement industry. This includes annuitization reforms that took effect in 2021 and the twin peak reforms on oversight.
In addition, government has consistently encouraged individuals to prepare and save for retirement. Let me draw your attention to two aspects that contribute towards low savings, firstly, there’s a lack of adequate savings and preservation of retirement funds before retirement; and secondly, individuals facing financial distress situations can easily access all their retirement upon resignation. This Bill
attempts to deal with this situation. The objectives of the preservation of funds before retirement was identified as an area of work in government’s paper 2012. Hon George, Amilcar Cabral has a saying that says, “Tell no lies, claim no easy victories”. This idea was muted in the government paper in 2012. This area of work was interrupted by COVID. So, it is not true that this idea was an invention of the DA. Beyond the government’s COVID response through relief measures, we embarked on this long-term reform to ensure that our retirement system can cater better to the savings challenges that many retirement funds members face even before retirement. These measures include enhancing household savings through increased preservation before retirement and introducing flexibility via partial access to retirement funds under the two-port system. As hon Maswanganyi has said, the two-port system facilitates the splitting of retirement contribution into two distinct components, namely, savings component and the retirement component. The retirement component comprising of two thirds of the retirement interest is to be preserved under the retirement, whilst the savings component allows for the pre-retirement access. We advise that members should not make withdrawals if there is no dire need or emergency, or they will lose out in the interests that
those funds would have earned. Moreover, they will pay marginal tax rates on saving component withdrawal before the retirement. Any funds that are left in the savings component can be withdrawn on retirement with tax benefit. The scale of the reforms as entailed in this Bill, including the incoming Bill, the Pension Funds Amendment Bill, are very important, and they are far-reaching. In essence, as government, we believe that preserving contributions into two-ports system will ensure enhanced retirement provision, mitigate old age poverty, reduce reliance on state support, and to some extent, address the immediate financial hardships faced by retirement fund members who lack alternative forms of savings. Thank you.
Debate Concluded.
Question Put.
Bill read a first time.
REVENUE LAWS AMENDMENT BILL [B 39B – 2023]
(Second Reading)
Question Put
There was no debate.
Bill read a second time.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, LAND REFORM AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT ON PLANT HEALTH (PHYTOSANITARY) BILL [B14 – 2021]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY MOVED: That the Report be
adopted.
Question Put
There was no debate.
Motion agreed to.
Report accordingly adopted.
PLANT HEALTH (PHYTOSANITARY) BILL
(Second Reading debate)
IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOLIMO, UKUTHUTHUKISWA WEZINDABA ZASEMAKHAYA
KANYE NEZINGUQUKO ZOMHLABA: Mphathi Sihlalo, amalungu ahloniphekile ale Ndlu, uSotswebhu woMbutho oPhetheyo, ozakwethu abakhona, uSihlalo wekomidi walo Mnyango engikuwo kanye nabalimi, nalabo abasebenza ngokwezolimi baphucule lokho okutshaliwe bakwenze okunye okudliwayo noma ngabe okugqokwayo. Singasho ukuthi ukuhwebelana kamazwe ngamazwe kuyathanda ukuthi ukubhekisisa ukuthi ngabe izitshalo zethu kumbe izilwane esizifuyile nenyama ngabe kuphephile yini. Loko kwenza ukuthi kube nemithetho ebekwayo ngamazwe kanti futhi nakuzwelonke jikelele ukuthi kubekhona ubuchwepheshe obenziwayo ukuze sibheke ukuthi ukuhwebelana kwethu akulethi yini amagciwane kumbe izilwanyana ezingaletha izifo ezweni lethu.
Akusizona kuphela izifo eziphatha abantu kodwa futhi kuba izifo ezingabulala nalo mhlabathi. Abanye baye banganaki ngisho kanye nathi malungu ePhalamende. Sihamba siye emazweni awomakhelwane mhlawumbe siyobona izihlobo nabangane, uma sesibuya bese siphatha amadumbe ngoba sicabanga ukuthi hhawu
kumnandi lokhu nabobhatata. Sikhohlwe ukuthi amadube lawa ayatshalwa kungenzeka kube nalokhu abakubizayo oSosayensi phecelezi nematodes okungenzeka ukuthi kube nezifo ezithize ezikuleyo ndawo. Uma ufika ngapha bese lokho kutholakala ukuthi sekungcolisa umhlaba wethu. Singabe sisakwazi ukuhwebelana namazwe angaphandle. Ezinye zalezo zingaphatha nezilwanyana ezincane njengalezo ezihlala ezihlahleni bese kutholakala ukuthi uma sihambisa izitshalo zethu kumbe nezithelo emazweni angaphandle bese bethola ukuthi kunalama gciwane angafuneki.
Yingakho lo Mthetho esiwubekayo namhlanje nje uzama ukuvikela lezi zinkinga ukuze sikwazi ukuthi thina okokuqala singabahlali baleli lizwe sidla ukudla okuphephile. Uma sihwebelana nomakhelwane bethu namazwe angaphesheya kwezilwandle nako lokho kuphephile ukuze abalimi bethu bathole inzuzo efanele sikwazi nokuthola intela yokwenza izinto ukuthi sithuthukise le lizwe.
English:
Over the past years, the Department of Agricultural and Land Reform and Rural Development developed and revised the Agricultural Pest Act and developed the new legislative
framework the Plan Health (Phytosanitary} Bill. The limitations identified in the existing Act include no provision for control of exports of plants and plant products. No provision for the establishment of the National Plant Protection Organisation of South Africa. And also, that the current legislation that we had did not provide for new instruments that are provided by the International Plant Protection Convention as well as some of those elements in our law were not in alignment with our required instruments in our Constitution. Therefore, this new Bill provides that we have a safe and fair international and domestic trade. We also maintain and expand our current export markets as well as accessing new markets.
IsiZulu:
Njengoba sazi nje ukuthi sesizohwebelana namaJapani kanye namaShayina ngo-avocado. Lokho kwenza ukuthi sibe nobuchwepheshe obuphelele ukuze izitshalo zethu zibe ngeziphephile. Siyethemba malungu ahloniphekile ukuthi lo Mthetho nezichibiyelo enizenzile nizozixhasa ukuze ukudla enikudlayo nina kuqala kuphephe nokudla esihwebelana ngako namazwe angaphandle kuphephile.
Ngibonge ke kakhulu kuSihlalo kanye namalungu ekomidi ngokwezihlalo zabo namaqembu abakuwo ngokuthi bawuxhase lo Mthetho ozosiza thina sonke. Hhayi, kuphela nje idlanzana kodwa nawo wonke umuntu. Ngiyabonga Mphathi Sihlalo.
Ngiyawubeka lo Mthetho ukuze siwuxhase.
Mr Z M D MANDELA: Hon House Chairperson and hon members, good afternoon. The Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development is committed to supporting the ANC-led government in achieving its objectives, which were explained by His Excellency President Ramaphosa as priorities, which are growing the economy and creating jobs, building better lives for our people, fighting corruption, making communities safer and making government work. The National Development Plan, NDP, clearly stipulates that the agricultural sector has a potential of drastically increasing growth and development in South Africa, and it certainly has. The department has identified the importance of engaging in research and development towards plant health, phytosanitary to enable the department to ensure how it can control and mitigate the introduction, spread and establishment of quarantine pests of plants.
Our country is a signatory to the World Trade Organisation agreement on the application of sanitary and phytosanitary measures, and the International Plant Protection Convention, biosecurity and biodiversity is critical for food security and growth in the sector. It is our duty as government to provide food security to our people, but also to protect the environment which we operate and find ourselves residing in.
Phytosanitary measures must be based on science through technical rationale, by applying pest risk analysis techniques which are scientific and academically proven to predict risks associated with pests. Fatalistic effects of quarantine pests are increasing affecting the environment, and we need to be vigilant because South Africa operates in a globally competitive environment with increased international trade coming with its own challenges. Pests that are found in South Africa have a potential of affecting international trade with other countries who import from us when we engage on exporting activities. The result maybe the introduction of stricter measures on trade operations and applications of expensive regulations, which in some instances can be accompanied with temporary closures in trade, as agreed risk mitigation measures, which were initially agreed upon. This may provide
negative effects to the contribution of the agricultural sector to the country’s gross domestic product, GDP.
The Plant Health and Phytosanitary Bill aims to provide a balance in adhering to global standards but not compromising our national interests as a country. Government is committed to eradicating poverty, unemployment and inequality amongst our people. Therefore, as a result, we should strategically focus on the implementation of the Bill to not affect sustainable and development opportunities already achieved. Pest outbreaks have the potential to reduce incomes and impose significant negative impacts on smallholder farmers and beneficiaries of agrarian reform. Our ability to deal with regulated pests in South Africa leads to the improvement in global competitiveness in trade, when it comes to plants and plant production, which provides competitive advantage for our products in the sector. Protecting our biosecurity, agricultural and forestry production food security remains a key priority for government, for our export orientated operation.
The reason for the departments and government to fully support the Bill is the understanding that to be a major role-player
in export markets comes with responsibilities in international markets because the growth in the agricultural sector also depends on other markets. In order to maintain and expand current export markets, as well as to enter new markets, South Africa needs to keep up to date with international phytosanitary advances and change. We want to reduce risks associated with food provision. We want to deal with the diseases, pests, natural disasters and trade imbalances in the sector through government implementing plant health regulations to improve growth and development in the sector.
The department has invested in small-scale farmers, and we want to make sure that any regulation implemented on the agricultural sector will not have negative effects on this sector.
Small businesses play a major economic role in most economies in the world. Through this Bill we want to provide confidence and stability through effective regulation by conducting pest risk alleviation measures, sound customer relations and effective governance of the sector. This will require sustainable utilisation of our natural resources and building capacity to optimally utilise the resource dependent on infrastructure, finance, technology, services and risk
development. Hon members, I move for the adoption of this Bill. Thank you.
Mr N P MASIPA: House Chairperson, the objective of the Bill is to address critical challenges related to the introduction and spread of potentially damaging pests in South Africa posing threats to our plant biosecurity, agricultural production, food security and market access. The existing Agricultural Pest Act of 1983 presents several shortcomings, notably, its outdated nature, predating both the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa and the International Plant Protection Convention, IPPC, of 1997.
Additionally, its definitions are not aligned with IPPC’s standards, lacks provisions for the National Plant Protection Organisation of South Africa’s per IPPC’s guidelines and lacks adequate measures for export control, re-export and in transit control. The International Standards for Phytosanitary Measures are developed by IPPC secretariat within the Food and Agriculture Organization, Fao, to aid in global plant quarantine policies. These standards aim to harmonise phytosanitary measures internationally, facilitate trade and preventing unjustified trade areas.
South Africa, as a Fao member, must adhere to these standards to prevent trade obstacles. The Bill was dealt with in accordance with section 76 processes since it falls within the functional area of schedule 4 and 5 of the Constitution.
Implementation of Plant Health Phytosanitary Act entails no additional financial and human resource implication as National Plant Protection Organisation is already established and funded. The delay in repealing the Agricultural Pests Act of 1983 has been undeniably excessive. However, given the tract record of the ANC government, such prolonged processes, unfortunately, no longer comes as a surprise to all of us. The DA supports the repeal of the Agricultural Pests Act.
It will be amiss of me not to address some serious issues within the agricultural sector. We need to align our agricultural policies with international norms and standards. The DA condemns the gross implementation, incompetence and rampant corruption of the ANC which has left many of our farmers and exported in a state of potential bankruptcy. The chronic mismanagement of electricity supply and neglect of port infrastructure by the ANC government has pushed our agricultural sector to resort to take legal action against the state. A pertinent example in this regard is the Hortgro, a deciduous fruit commodity group, which has made considerable efforts to support Transnet in gaging port operational, yet without success. While our hardworking farmers and exporters strive to compete on the global stage, they are left to fend for themselves amidst persistent load shedding and crumbling port infrastructures. Maize farmers and those in the irrigation belt are left to battle scorching heat waves without essential government support, resulting in diminished crop yields and jeopardised food security.
Despite promises of assistance, the Agro Energy Fund remains a mere illusion failing to reach those who need it most. The comprehensive studies that were completed comprising of interviews with maize and soya beans farmers across all provinces unequivocally reveals a staggering anticipated decline in harvest, with estimates reaching as high as 26% for maize and 29% for soya beans. This pronounced decrees is particularly alarming given the substantial investment these struggling farmers have made in inputs, underscoring the profound impact this downturn will have on their livelihoods and their wellbeing. Furthermore, as a result of the ANC negligence, crops wither in the fields and fruits rot in our harbours, exacerbating the plight of our agricultural
community and with potential to tarnish farmers international reputation.
Sepedi:
Ka se sebaka, temo ke mahlomola pelo ka ge balemi ba palelwa ke go fa dimela le dienywa tia bona meetse ao a lekanego. Ba konketiwa ka mohlagase wa Eskom. Ge e le theko ya makhura, e lego peterolo le tisele di nyoga beke ka beke. MaAfrika Borwa a feletiwe ke meiomo ebile a felelwa ke meiomo letiatii ka letiatii ka lebaka la bohodu ba go tliiwa ke maloko a mokgatlo wo o dutiego ka mo lehlakoreng la go ja.
Balemi ba ikgonere ka go hloka maitseparelo le tshepho go mmuio wa mokgatlo wa bohodu le go se tshephagale ga mmuio wa mokgatlo wa ANC. Balemi ba nolegile mooko ka se sebaka. Dimpa di tletie ka moya wa go tenwa ke meiomo ye letsogolekobong ka lebaka la bosenyi, borukhuhli le bohodu bja bona bomphenyaiilo ba go se be le dihlong ba mokgatlo woo o lego ka mo lehlakoreng le la go ja. Bjale tshepho ya MaAfrika Borwa e go DA. Tshepho ya MaAfrika Borwa e go mopholoii, elego yena John Steenhuisen.
Afrikaans:
Suid-Afrikaners, julle moet weet wat ons weet. Die DA se plan vir die landboubedryf is “duidelik”. Ons gaan beurtkrag eindig en deur landbou gaan ons meer werksgeleenthede in die land skep, maar onder die huidige ANC-regering kry die land se lanboubedryf verskriklik swaar. Die ANC se beurt is verby.
Registreer om vir die DA te stem.
Sepedi:
Le ingwadiieng le kgethe mokgatlo wa DA go ntihwe “mamenemene” ao a lego ka mo go la go ja.
English:
Thank you, Chairperson.
Sepedi:
Ke a leboga, Modulasetulo.
Ms M S LETLAPE: Thank you, House Chairperson, the committee received a briefing in a virtual meeting from the Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development on the Plant Health Bill. The National Phytosanitary regulation system is currently administered under the Agricultural Pests Act of 1983 and its associated regulations.
Furthermore, the purpose of the Agricultural Pests Act regarding Phytosanitary matters is to provide for measures by which quarantine pests of plant, plant products and other regulated articles that may be prevented from entering and establishing in South Africa and for combating plant pests of national concern.
The objectives of the Plant Health Bill were to provide for phytosanitary measures to prevent the introduction, establishment, and spread of regulated pests to safeguard South African agriculture and natural plant resources.
The Bill seeks to address gaps and challenges in the current phytosanitary system in view of the requirements of the country’s major trading partners and the requirements under the relevant international agreements and treaties, of which South Africa is a signatory member of. This will assist in ensuring safe and fair international and domestic trade, maintenance of current export markets, and the establishment of new markets, crop production and food security programs, economic growth and development and solid job creation.
South Africa is a signatory member of the World Trade Organisation agreement on the application of the sanitary and phytosanitary measures and the International Plant Protection Convention, so it needs to align its sign of its phytosanitary legislation with the relevant obligations and the standards to facilitate safe and fair international trade.
Finally, the EFF supports this Bill, because it contributes to both secondary and tertiary plant health and agricultural productivity, and it aims to support the objectives and priorities such as sustainable management and use of natural resources. The provision of effective national regulatory services and risk management systems as well as increased contribution of the sector to the country’s economic growth, and development. The EFF supports the Bill. Thank you, Chairperson.
Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Thank you, House Chairperson, the Plant Phytosanitary Bill and the challenges raised during the review of the Plant Health Bill are an important part of protecting South Africa’s economy and borders. Whilst many of us think that the border control involves only the persons entering and exiting the country, it also includes the importation of
substances such as plants. It becomes evident that its primary objective is to reinforce our nation’s agricultural pliancy.
The amendments proposed in the Bill are a necessary response to the deficiencies in the current regulatory framework, with the repeal of the outdated Agricultural Pests Act of 1983. The new measures outlined in the Bill are designed not only to prevent the introduction, establishment, and spread of regulated pests, but also to bolster international and domestic trade, ensure food security, foster economic growth, and create job opportunities.
No scanners at our borders for pest control. We demand for the robust social economic impact report and the urgency of liaising with the department were some glaring issues. Too often, policy changes lack the teeth for effective enforcement due to government capacity constraints.
The IF backs the committee’s push for a socioeconomic impact report, underscoring our steadfast commitment of grasping the far-reaching consequences of this legislation on our society and economy. Moreover, the need for collaboration with other departments, especially regarding borders around the South African Development Community area, is important for our
recently signed African Free Trade Agreement, AFTA. For South Africans to fully benefit from AFTA, Education needs to be enhanced to protect our local plantation and the economy that could be drawn from it.
The imperative lies with the government to enhance border control and implement effective early warning systems. Recent incident highlights this, as a ship from Brazil, carrying cattle, stirred significant unease among Cape Town residents. The arrival of the vessel not only triggered a surge in flies but also emanated an unbelievable stench, leaving locals grappling with the repercussions.
IsiZulu:
Siyawusekela uMthethosivivinywa ophakanyiswayo kodwa ke asilwe nalokhu okwenzekayo. Kugcwele izihlahla ezweni, akwenzeki lutho ngoMnyango. Siyabonga.
Ms T BREEDT: Hon Chairperson, Phytosanitary measures play a pivotal role in preventing the introduction and or spread of quarantine pests and limit the economic impact of regulated non-quarantine pests. It is important to state that proper advisory mechanisms, policies, and legislative instruments are
critical to assist farmers in controlling and managing of pests. Also, plant pests and diseases if not properly managed may compromise the availability of food which may lead to food insecurity in a country. In a country such as South Africa that is already largely food insecure, we need to protect what we have, and we need to ensure that our food resources aren’t further compromised.
South Africa is a signatory to the World Trade Organisation Agreement, WTO Agreement, the IPPC as already mentioned, and it therefore needs to align its Phytosanitary legislation with the relevant obligations and standards to facilitate safe and fair international trade. Also, taking into account, the current Act being used is the Agricultural Pests Act 36 of 1983. It turns 41 years old this year and it needs a much- needed upgrade. Much has changed in the last four decades and phytosanitary measures need to keep up with standards.
The Plant Health Bill seeks to address gaps and challenges in the current (phytosanitary) system in the view of the requirements of the country’s major trading partners, and also the requirements of the relevant international treaties and agreements.
The Bill addresses several issues and seeks at improving import, export, re export and natural control measures to support safe and fair international trade, maintenance of current export markets, and establishing of new markets, crop production, food security programs, and of course, economic development and growth.
What will, however, hamper this Bill once it becomes an act is, in short, the South African government. The government has proved time after time that it cannot implement the most basic of tasks. The Minister is, for example, allowed to make regulations and as we’ve seen this can be quite troublesome as a necessary consultation, does not take place or in instances where it does take place, it is not taken to heart. The Minister may further prescribe control measures as well as restricted movement measures.
Let’s look at the avian influenza, swine flu, and foot and mouth disease outbreaks to be a testament to what can go wrong if this happens. Furthermore, South African borders are still porous and lack relevant equipment such as scanners to detect undeclared plant products when people move around.
These are instances where most passengers of unauthorised plant products and or fruits pass through undetected. It does not help to have the best acts in the world if we cannot enforce them. We also need to be cognisant of that there are crosscutting and overlapping issues of, for example, the National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Act, the NEMBA Bill, the APA Bill and the Plant Improvement Act and this will also need to be addressed.
Aligning South African’s phytosanitary legislation to that of international standards is good, even upgrading updated legislation is commendable, but I will not hold my breath when it comes to issues as listed above. The government in its current form, with its current ruling party in charge, will not improve nor correctly implement this Bill. They will continue to break down the agricultural industry. Agriculture needs change. South Africa needs change. Let’s rebuild South Africa together. I thank you.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon House Chairperson, while we are discussing a very important topic and that is the land and agriculture, the Palestinian people have been forcefully removed from their land. Yet, Chairperson, I am told, I am
anti-Semitic. When I say that the land belongs to the people who live in, I did not say to the people who move in and steal the land and live on it. I am talking about the people who live on this land. So, the land in this country belongs to the people of this country. And I am saying the Jews, Christians and Muslims have live side by side all over the world, including Palestine. But there is no place in the City of Cape Town and the Western Cape for Zionist. We will not allow it, no matter what happens. So, they will not make this another Palestine that I can tell you.
Now Chairperson, this Bill was referred to the portfolio committee on 29 July 2021. We acknowledge that South Africa as a signatory to the World Trade Organization, this Phytosanitary Bill seeks to address the weaknesses in the regulatory system of South Africa by repealing the Agricultural Pest Act, No 36 of 1983. The Bill provides for measures to prevent the introduction establishment and spread of regulatory regulated pests.
Now we think that this Bill will go a long way. Of course, in addressing some of the weaknesses that we may have, and particularly let us be cognizant of the fact that, because of
who we are and what we stand for, there are those that will use every little thing they can possibly do to punish us. So, I think in complying with this, we will close the doors to anybody abusing the authority and power, particularly internationally to come and put measures in place to prevent our products being exported to their countries.
I think that the measures that we are putting will ensure that there are stringent measures that will ensure quality products. It will enhance growth, particularly in the agricultural sector, job creation, of course and I think we must welcome this. But let us also be mindful of the fact that no matter what we do and what we comply with, some of these international institution’s organization are toothless bodies and they are here to punish those that want to uphold human rights.
I want to say again, Palestine will be free. It shall be free and it is just a matter of time. It will be free. Palestine will be free. Thank you.
Mr N CAPA: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister and Deputy Ministers, all Ministers present, hon members, guests and fellow South Africans...
IsiXhosa:
... njenge qhawe elithunyiweyo (deployed cadre), mandiqale ngokuyiveza into yokuba siyi-ANC siyawuxhasa lo Mthetho osaYilwayo. Le nkxaso ndiyitsho ndililungu le-ANC, ilungu lorhulumente okhekelwa yi-ANC okanye ndililungu le-ANC norhulumente wayo. Ndim lowo. Kubonakele ukuba uMthetho wenombolo yama-36 we-1983 owawubekiwe, uneendawo apho uqhwalela kuzo. Lo Mthetho, uye wahlonyelwa ngowe-1992 kodwa unezinto ezikhankanywayo ezenza ukuba uqhwalele. Kukhankanywa ukuba awuhambisani noMgaqo-siseko kuba upasiswe phambi kwawo. Kukwavele ukuba awuhambisani kakuhle ne...
English:
... Plant Protection Convention of 1997...
IsiXhosa:
... nayo esekwe emva kwawo. Uyasilela ukulungiselela...
English:
... the National Plant Organisation of Chapter 4 of the International Plant Protection Convention, IPPC...
IsiXhosa:
... ukuba ikwazi ukurhwebelana namanye amazwe angaphandle. Besinokuwuthobela kanjani ke thina lo Mthetho kuba nathi sasingekho ngonyaka we-1983. Abantu ababesenza le Mithetho babekhangela iindawo ezicinezela umntu ontsundu. Ukuba ithe yangabikho indawo enjalo, loo mthetho awubalulekanga kwaye yeyona ngxaki ababenayo leyo kakhulu.
English:
Therefore, this Bill should be supported by all...
IsiXhosa:
... kuba isebenzela bonke abantu baseMzantsi Afrika.
English:
Being a signatory in the international agreements, South Africa has the obligation to align policies with those of the international standards on plant health. This will be demonstrated through evidence of sustainable management of natural resources, provision of acceptive national regulatory
services and risk management systems, increased contribution of the sector in the economic growth and development of our country. This Bill seeks to provide phytosanitary measures to prevent the introduction and spread of regulated pests to safeguard the South African plants and natural resources.
Any introduction and spread of alien plant pests that have potential damage to plant health would negatively impact on food security as well as competitiveness in trade.
IsiXhosa:
Yingozi ke leyo kuba abantu bakuthi balima umbona, isityalo apho esinkene-nkene, esilinywa ngexesha laso, hayi ngokuthanda kwakho. Ukuba asiyithatheli ingqalelo loo nto, baya kuba sengozini.
English:
Therefore, the ANC-led government in fulfilling the legacy of this bill is committed to ensuring the safe trade, economic growth, economic development, sustainability and profitability in the sector of agriculture and forestry. The Bill should be supported by all people because it is supporting the South African government to sustainable management and use of
natural resources. It provides for effective regulatory services, contributes to the sustainable utilization of natural resources and risk management. It promotes competitiveness of individual enterprises and the entire sector.
Based on the ANC’s noble principle of transparency, we want to raise the public awareness among all stakeholders and ensure that they understand their roles and responsibilities. We also fully support all the laws and the regulations that are to be upon the Minister, because this is going to ensure that this Bill, when it becomes an Act, works in the interest of the people of South Africa.
Proper application of this regulation on plant health will improve competitiveness in trade with plants and plant products. The legislative interventions, such as measures being proposed in this Bill, can play an important role in protecting South Africa’s plant health status. Hon Chair, I therefore say that, as the ANC, we support the Bill and we want every we ask everyone to support it, because it is in the interest of the people of South Africa. I thank you.
Mr S M JAFTA: Hon Chair, the Plant Health Bill aims to provide for the control of regulated pests and prevent the introduction establishment and spread of regulated path in the Republic. The Bill defines pests as any species strained or biotype of plant, animal or infectious particles to plants or plant products. Section 12 of the Bill confers on executive officers the power to conduct health risk analysis, exempt or prohibit the import of specified plants, plant products and other regulated particles. Implement emergency and provisional measures in relation to imports with the view to prevent the introduction establishment and spread of regulated pests. Hon Chair, this Bill is said to be important in securing South Africa’s domestic and international trade in plants and plants products. Given our country’s active agricultural and forestry sectors, South Africa has an obligation to produce sound nationally co-ordinated system to maintain and expand its competitive position in the global trade arena.
We also support the establishment of the National Plant Protection Organization of South Africa. The Bill sets out the duties of the organization. They include, amongst others, providing a national plant protection contact point in terms of the convention in the republic. Conducting pests risk
analysis, inspecting consignment of plants, plant products and other regulated particles and notifying trade partners regarding non-compliance with import requirements. We support this Bill, hon Chair. Thank you.
Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chair, it is only getting better and we would like to congratulate the portfolio committee for positioning South Africa for international trade.
Hon House Chair, the regulation of fish is very, very important. I can’t understand why it has taken so many years, but we are moving forward and congratulations to the Chair of the portfolio committee.
Having said that, it is important that once we have confiscated the land without compensation and distribute the land, that when the land is given to the beneficiaries whose land was stolen and who deserves the land, that all these measures be taken into account so that they grow products that we can put forward into international trade.
I want to use the model in Zimbabwe where, before he died, President Mugabe gave people land which they confiscated
without compensation. He gave them seeds, he gave them fertilizer and he also gave them the necessary ... to avoid the pests. And then on top of it, the Minister of Social Welfare in the country bought the crops, so, there was no problems in getting a market.
So, that’s a model South Africa must follow as we expropriate land without compensation. Thank you very much, hon Chair.
Al Jama’ah supports the amendments.
Dr M M E TLHAPE: House Chair, Ministers, Deputy Ministers, hon members, fellow South Africans. The ANC fully supports the Plant Health (Phytosanitary) Bill because currently the National Phytosanitary System of South Africa is administered under the Agricultural Pests Act, Act 36 of 1983.
South Africa is a signatory member of International Plant Protection Convention and the World Trade Organization Agreement on application of sanitary phytosanitary measures, and must, therefore, conform to internationally recognized approved standards.
Setswana:
Jaanong bagaetsho re tshwanetse go baakanya mathata a re nang le one a itekanelo ya dijalo le dimela mo nageng ya rona go latela melawana ya boditšhabatšhaba ya kgwebo le ditumallano tseo di dirilweng ke dinaga tseo Aforika Borwa e leng karolo ya tsona mo ditumalanong tseno.
Dimela le dijalo e ka tswa e le mabele, korong, merogo, maungo, ditlhare tsa maungo, kgotsa dijo dingwe fela tsa batho le tsa diphologolo tseo di tswang mo dijalong tseno, di tshwanetse go sireletsega.
Seno se re pateletsa re le puso go latela melawana e e diragadiwang ya kgwebo e e bolokesegileng, e e seng bofitlha e bile e buletswe batho botlhe.
Go sala melao e e beilweng morago go tla re neela ditshono go fitlhelela mebaraka ya boditšhabatšhaba ka gonne bao re dirang kgwebo le bone ba itsi fa re tshotse dikgato tse di maleba go thibela le go laola malwetsi le ditshenekegi tseo di ka tsenang tsa bo tsa phatlhalala le dijalo tsa rona.
Re gatella itekanelo ya dijalo tse tsa rona ka gonne fa di ka nna le malwetsi, seo se ka ama temothuo ya naga le go tlhagisa dijo, go fepa setšhaba le go romelwa kwa mebarakeng ya boditšhabatšhaba eo re dirang le yone.
Ka jalo, go botlhokwa go fetisa Molaotlhomo ono, re lebeletse bogolosegolo go thibela tlala le go godisa ikonomi ya rona.
Re bone mo malobeng re ne re tlhasetswe ke ditsie le diboko tseo di neng di ja dijalo mme re sa kgone go ntsha dijalo tse di lekaneng. Seno se isa theko ya dijo kwa godimo, mme e bile malapa a a humanegileng a nna mo kotsing. Gape, ga re kgone go rekisetsa mafatshe a a kwa ntle, ka jalo ikonomi ya rona le yone e amega boshula.
Re itemogetse koketsego ya baagi mo nageng ya rona ka gonne gajaana dipalopalo di supa fa re na le baagi ba ka nna dimilione di le 61. Seno se raya gore re tshwanetse, bagaetsho, go beeletsa mo tshireletsegong ya dijo tsa batho le tsa leruo.
Fa re lema re fepa batho mme re fepa le leruo la rona. Jaanong, malwetsi a dijalo, malwetsi a ditlhare, malwetsi a
dimela, phetogo ya loapi ka gonne le yone e re tlisetsa malwetsi ano, a re okelletsa bothata.
Ka jalo, puso e tlhoka gore re e matlafatse ka go fetisa Molaotlhomo oo mme ba tseye dikgato tse di maleba jaaka go setse go kailwe.
Lefapha la Temothuo le Tlhabololo ya Mafatshe le tsweletse go neelana ka thuso mo metse magaeng a rona a ditshingwana, ditanka tsa metsi le dipeo mo metse magaeng le makeishene a rona, e le go leka go lwantsha tlala le go leka go thusa baagi go itemela dijo.
Lefapha leno le ntse le dira ka naatla go aga magora mo metse magaeng moo re ruileng ka kopanelo [communal lands], e le go leka go thibela malwetsi a a phatlhalalang a diphologolo.
Seo se re saletseng ke go ba neela Molaotlhomo ono go ba kgontsha go thibela le go netefatsa gore dijalo le dimela le tsona di itekanetse.
English:
We must pay attention to this Bill because South Africa’s ability to deal with regulated pests will improve our position as a country in global competitiveness when it comes to trade in plant seeds, trees and agricultural products.
We are fully aware that we have to engage in surveillance of growing plants, which are in areas under cultivation like fields, plantations, nurseries, gardens, greenhouses and laboratories.
Also, we need to put under surveillance those plans that are in storage or in transportation, particularly with the object of reporting occurrence, outbreak and spread of pests, and of controlling those pests. This requires training and developing skills on the field and this has been done in the past through partnering with institutions of higher learning that have the expertise in the plant health related subjects.
There’s a need to protect our productivity in the agricultural sector when it comes to crop production because the inputs on soil health, nutrition, irrigation and crop protection are supplied in different services by service providers who are often also sales persons for products or technologies and thus requires a broad, efficient management strategy.
Setswana:
Ke ka mokgwa oo go leng mosola gore le bao ba tshelang peo ya cansmis ba rutiwe gore ba dira jang gore e se ke tsa ama tlhagiso ya dijalo.
Re tlhoka baitseanape bao ba nang le bokgoni go tlhatlhoba dijalo tse re di romelang kwa mafatsheng a a kwa ntle le tseo di romelwang mo nageng ya rona, ka gonne tseo di tsenang ka naga le tsona di ka tlisa malwetsi, tsa ama temo, tsa ama mafulo a diphologolo tsa rona.
Ke ka moo Molaotlhomo ono o leng botlhokwa go o fetisa. Go raya gore fa re dira jalo re ipaya kwa pele ka go thibela seo re buileng ka sona gore re se ke ra iphitlhela re le mo mathateng jaaka mo nakong e e fetileng, re nnile le bolwetsi ba molomo le tlhakwana mo leruong, re nnile le ditsie le dibokwana tse di bidiwang bo fall army worm tseo di dirang gore mafatshe a a kwa ntle a tswalle kgwebo le Aforika Borwa.
Jaanong, fa ba tswalla kgwebo go raya gore balemirui ba rona ba bantsi ba tla latlhegelwa ke letseno fa mebaraka eo e tswetswe.
Ka jalo, a re iketleletseng kwa pele ka go fetisa Molaotlhomo ono, go tiisa tshepo ya mebaraka e e kwa ntle le kgwebisano e le gone gore re godise le ikonomi.
Re tlhoka segolo bogolo go tsibosa le go ruta batsaya karolo botlhe mo temothuong ka ga botlhokwa ba itekanelo ya dijalo le dilo tsotlhe tseo di amanang le dikungo tsa temothuo.
English:
Through this Bill, hon members, we are committed to ensuring that phytosanitary management system for South Africa operates in compliance with international and national plant health obligations and responsibilities in support of trade, food security and sustainable resource management.
In other words, the Bill provides biosecurity for the biodiversity of the country. With effective plant health system in place, it will enable our country to achieve trade driven growth through expansion to other markets and achieve
economic integration through the protection of natural resources.
We need to increase public awareness on the role of stakeholders including general public, in protecting the phytosanitary status of South Africa
Setswana:
Re leboga bao ba tshegeditseng go fetisa Molaotlhomo ono.
Jaanaong, ke batla go re, motl Masipa, ke go kgalemetse mo mosong kwa komiting gore fa o sena dintlha tsa tseo go buiwang ka sone lenaneng o itidimalle ka gonne batho ba bona kwa pele gore e kete kitso ya fokola, fa go buiwa ka seno o bo o ya go phutha, o itlatlarietsa, o phutha dilo tseo go sa buiwing ka tsona.
Jaanong, ke ne ke re mo go tse o di buileng rraetsho, fa motho a re dipodi di a sisa, wa bo a bone tsa ko gaabo. Ba ntse ba botsa fano gore gotweng ko Stellenbosch fa o bua ka tseno, o dirang ... [Go sa utlwagale.] ... ANC. Re a leboga.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: House Chairperson, hon members, and more particularly the members of the Portfolio Committee on Agricultural Land Reform and Rural Development who have participated in this Bill, all of them supporting the aims of the Bill but also its importance. And in the way in which members participated in the debate, further affirmed why we need this Bill and how it’s going to help our country, particularly in ensuring that we prevent any pests of quarantine that might affect our food security negatively.
Similarly, the importance of this Bill in terms of improving our trade capability as a country and being able to participate in a competitive manner internationally.
Again, members of the committee indicated that beyond this Bill, it is important that we raise awareness, particularly of stakeholders and general South Africans about the importance of plant health and its protection.
I know ke [that] at this moment, sometimes even in the discussion of the very technical Bills ...
IsiZulu:
... sithanda ukusika kwelijikayo. Ubaba u-Masipa ushilo la eseqedile kodwa kuthiwa unguNgqongqoshe kwiqembu eliphikisayo okwenzanga kahle lokhu kokuba uNqqongqoshe kwiqembu eliphikisayo. Uthe uma usuqedile kahle wase ungena endabeni engekho kude kodwa ebalulekile kodwa manje awusayibeki kahle ngoba phela indaba kagesi nje nenkinga yawo ikakhulukazi kubalimi siyixoxe nabalimi kusukela ekuqaleni siyicubungula size sifike kulo-Agro Energy Fund. Nendaba yamachweba sihlangene nabalimi. Ngesinye isikhathi ngibuye ngingazi ukuthi ibaphi laba balimi osuke ukhulume nabo ngoba noma sengiye e-Ga Matlala le e-Tibane kade bakugcina ekhaya abasakuboni ngoba usuphelele la emadolobheni. Ngithemba ukuthi uma sesiya ekuyokhankaseni uzoke ugoduke uye ngasekhaya uyobatshela nje ukuthi kubaluleke kangakanani ukuvotela uKhongolose. Ngiyabonga.
Debate concluded.
Question put.
Agreed to
Bill read a second time.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, LAND REFORM AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT - ON DEEDS REGISTRIES AMENDMENT BILL
There was no debate.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY moved: That the Report be adopted.
Motion agreed to.
Report accordingly adopted.
DEEDS REGISTRIES AMENDMENT BILL
(Second Reading debate)
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, LAND FREFORM AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT: House Chairperson, hon members, our farmers at home and communities, today, we are debating the Deeds Registries Amendment Bill. The debate around this Bill is
incomplete without recognising the importance of deeds registry in ensuring that property transactions are legally recorded and documented.
Deeds property and tenure rights protect communities from exploitation. They help grow strong markets that generate income and create jobs in poor communities and provide equity that motivates residents to invest in their community. These secure rights provide for opportunities for communities to participate in the economy including global economy. In South Africa with our history of land dispossession land has been long viewed as a source of identity, wealth and power.
Actually, if we were to recall, it was for this reason that in 1912 a number of black people in general met in Mangaung in the formation of the ANC primarily fighting against land dispossession and the colonisation of our people.
As we all know deeds registry system did not provide for all these benefits I have just alluded to all South Africans.
IsiZulu:
Njengoba sazi ukuthi imizi yomama nobaba nomkhulu emakhaya ikakhulukazi ezindaweni ezingaphansi kwamakhosi bezilokhu
zingafakwanga kulolu hlelo lokuthi izindlu zabo zibekhona ohlwini olubizwa ngamatayitela. Lokhu okusho ukuthi uma sibheka zonke lezi zindawo zibizwa ngokuthi yizindawo zikaHulumeni, i-state land, phecelezi bese kwenza abaningi bacabange ukuthi uHulumeni unomhlaba omningi owuphethe, kungaphezu kwalabo abaphethe umhlaba omningi njengalabo amanamapulazi amakhulu ikakhulukazi amabhange kanye nabezezimayini nalabo abalima ngokukhulu, kukhohlwakale ukuthi le mindeni emningi esezindaweni ezisemakhaya uma sibheka ngisho uma beyofuna usizo lwezimali uma bebeka izindlu zabo njengesibambiso zokuthi bakwazi ukuthola izikweletu baye batshelwe ukuthi ...
English:
... they are unbankable.
IsiZulu:
Abakwazi ukuthi bangaboleka imali ngoba ukulinganisa ngokwemali kwalezi zindlu zabo akukho nasohlwini olubizwa ngerejista yamatayitela. Kubalulekile uma sibheka loMthethosivivinywa wokuchitshiyelwa namhlanje izama ukwenza ukuthi siqale ukuthi nale mizi esemakhaya ikwazi ukuthi
ibekhona laphaya encwadini enkulu esiyazi ngokuthi incwadi yamatayitela.
English:
This is not to pre-empt the finalisation of engagement on transfer on communal land to its rightful owners but rather to lay the foundation for that to happen when it does take place once the necessary legislation has been passed by this House.
Through this amendment, we seek also, to empower the Minister to regulate that will allow disclosure of information on who own South Africa in order for us to have statistical data that is accurate and also measure how we are fulfilling our constitutional obligation to ensure equitable redress to land ownership in South Africa.
IsiZulu:
Njengoba sazi, Sihlalo waleNdlu, kanye namalungu ukuthi abantu abaningi ikakhulukazi kanye nezinhlaka zikaHulumeni zayeka emuva kuka-1994 ukuthi zisho ukuthi lo umnyama, lo umhlophe, siyazi ukuthi bekuwukuzama ukuqeda isimo sobandlululo kodwa inkinga yabo ukuthi asisakwazi ukuba nomnyombo esiwudingayo wolwazi ukuthi empeleni ubani esingathi unomhlaba owanele
ongakanani kuleli lizwe lwengabade yakithi. Kubalulekile ukuthi sike siphinde sikuhlaziye lokho. Asikwenzi ngoba sifuna ubandlululo, senzela ukuthi sikwazi ukuthi uma sithi lo mhlaba waseNingizimu Afrika ngabe uphethwe ngendlela efanele yini ngazozonke izakhamuzi zakuleli.
English:
The other aim of this Bill is to provide for the appointment of the Registrar of Deeds, the Deputy Registrar of Deeds and Assistant Registrar of Deeds in terms of the provision of the Public Service Act of 1994. It would also help us to regulate the membership duties composition, voting powers and remuneration of members of the deeds registry.
We, therefore, think, hon Chairperson and members, that one of the important elements that this amendment seeks to do is to provide that an attorney, conveyancer and notary in the employ of the Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development may perform the duties of an attorney, conveyancer and notary in respect of transaction relating to state land. I therefore, table this Bill for the consideration of this House and its support. I thank you.
Mr Z M D MANDELA: Hon Chairperson, Hon Minister, hon members, good afternoon once again, the purpose of the Deeds Registries Amendment Bill is to amend the Deeds Registries Act, 1937, to make it possible for the appointment of the Registrar of Deeds in terms of the provisions of the Public Service Act, 1994.
The department and the ANC-led government aims through the Bill to achieve security of tenure, sustainable development of agricultural land in SA and to demarcate protected agricultural areas to ensure that agricultural land is preserved and protected against non-agricultural uses in order to promote long term agricultural production. It is of paramount importance to apply regulative measures to the qualification requirements of a Registrar of Deeds, Deputy Registrar of Deeds and Assistant Registrar of Deeds for the purpose of laying a foundation for the employment of the Chief Registrar of Deeds. In other words, a deeds office that needs the development requirements of our country.
The ANC-led government is committed to fully implementing the mandate of the National Development Plan, NDP, and use it as map on how SA can combat past injustices and achieving inclusive economic development for all its citizens. The main
objective of the NDP is to annihilate poverty and reduce inequality. And these can be achieved through economic diversification and an inclusive economy in SA.
However, people need to own land and have a title deed as it is an asset upon which capital can be raised for development. We believe proper implementation and application of the Deeds Registration Bill will fast track the process with providing clarity on responsibilities and duties to the Chief Registrar of Deeds.
Through the Bill, we want to establish and maintain the Electronic Deeds Registration System as contemplated in section 2 of the Electronic Deeds Registration Systems Act and maintain the current deeds registration system until fully replaced by the Electronic Deeds Registration System.
In our country, land rights are rooted in social relationships, which include household and kingship networks and various forms of community membership often multiply and overlapping in character. One can say that, when it comes to land rights, there are inclusive rather than exclusive in character. Access to land is guaranteed by norms and values
embodied in the community’s land ethic. This also implies that access to land is defined through social rights which is distinct from control of land by systems of authority and administration, social, political and resource-use boundaries are usually clear but often flexible and negotiable and sometimes the source of tension and conflict.
We also want the authority to be able to supervise overall deeds registries through the office of the Chief Registrar of Deeds which will allow better transparency and accountability for the deeds registration system. The main problem with the past Act is that they didn’t include the perspective of indigenous people. Most of these Acts were based on the individualisation of land tenure for registration purposes by using western co-operative models. Consequently, the distinctive communal spirit and responsibilities whereby tenure security are normally ensured were completely ignored.
The department has made it clear that it is in accordance with the beneficiary selection and land allocation policy when it deals with the matter of redistribution and tenure security.
Such clear mandate requires clear roles and responsibilities in operations which need to be performed when it comes to the
deeds with respect to land. One might also enquire about the necessity of this exercise of the Deeds Registries Amendment Bill.
Researchers has showed that informal land systems that have existed have showed that they have the potential to impede agricultural growth and development.
Hon members, there is a need for application of land title for the purpose of improving land transfer towards productive farmers and promoting inclusive growth in the sector.
We want to encourage improved access to credit for small emerging farmers and land owners. There must be a creation of incentives for investment in land improvement focus on soil conservation and ability to access new technologies in agriculture. We want to make provision for the Minister to be able to make regulation in respect of the collection of personal information relating to race, gender, citizenship and nationality for statistical and land audit purposes. To further regulate the registration of state land the government is to accelerate the land reform programme and release land to qualifying individuals.
The Bill will assist in recordal of land tenure rights lawfully issued by the government or any other competent authority for the purpose of providing registration waiver of preference in respect of the registered real rights in favour of deceased. A properly developed land administrative system in SA is needed but requires land information by registration to be readily available and reliable. This is because we want to have integrated process of determining, recording and dissemination information on the tenure.
We also want to determine the value of usage of land in the context of developing sustainable land management and development policy. It is important to stress that we have an effective system when we deal with deregistration and land matters because we want to address the matter of informal land rights and communal land rights tenure in rural areas.
Through this Bill, we want to have a computerise register of persons, households and families and right exercise by that with the cadastral defined or survey piece of land while making sure that systems provide complex overlapping, fragmented use rights associated with communal land tenure by recognising secondary and more distant right holders.
Transformation of land ownership is key to the correction of historical injustices. I thank you. And we move for the adoption of the Bill.
Ms T M MBABAMA: Hon House Chairperson, the Deeds Registry Amendment Bill seeks to amend the Deeds Registry’s Act 47 of 1937 to improve the application and implementation of the Act by streamlining certain administrative provisions providing for the recordal of land tenure rights, further regulating the powers of the Minister and the deeds regulation board as well as the boards composition, extending the application of wavers of preference and introducing further punitive measures regarding deviant conduct.
In South Africa the law does not explicitly guarantee formal ownership to land by tittle. Land is either registered in the Deeds Office under formal tittle or owned by government and administered informally by traditional authorities under what is known as “Off Register Rights.”
In rural South Africa mostly in what was known as the TBVC states. That is the former Transkei, Bophuthatswana, Venda, Ciskei and much later on Qwaqwa, people do not own the land
they live on even today. There is no way they can apply for security of tenure as there is no legislation at present Minister, to facilitate recordal of their rights in the Deeds Office.
Although the Register of Deeds has been awarded the powers the many forms of tenure rights found in South Africa today. Under this Amendment Bill, there first has to be established legislation to facilitate this.
The committee in its recommendations urged the Minister to speed up development of the Communal Land Bill or any other legislation that could fast-track the facilitation of formal recordal of land tenure rights.
Rural insecure tenure also includes the land occupied by farm dwellers who are the offspring of the previous labour tenants on farms that owned by previous employers. These farm dwellers were born on the farms they live in and consider these farms to be home. They are supposed to be protected by two sections of the Constitution which are section 25(6) which states and I quote:
The person or community with security of tenure is legally in secure as a result of past racially discriminatory laws and practices is entitled to the extent provided by an Act of Parliament, either to tenure which is legally secure or comparable redress.
Section 26(3) goes on to say, no one may be evicted from their home or have that home demolished without an order of court made after considering all relevant circumstances. No legislation may permit arbitrary eviction.
Unfortunately, as my friend the hon Masipa said, the present ruling party has failed dismally in enforcing implementation of these two sections via relevant legislation. Even where there is legislation, monitoring and evaluation of such leaves much to be desired.
We saw this when conducting joint oversight visits on the living and working conditions in farming communities across the provinces with the Committee on Employment and Labour.
The DA however, welcomes the Deeds Registry Amendment Bill which will in future allow the DA and the multiparty charter
partners to not only improve the application and implementation of the Deeds Registry’s Act across the 11cDeeds Offices, but will also streamline the Acts with how land ownership needs have progressed overtime.
IsiXhosa:
Xa ufuna ukuba yingxenye yokuhlangula uMzansi, bhalisa ku- checkda.org.za, uvotele i-DA uhlukane ne-ANC. Enkosi.
Ms M S LETLAPE: Hon House Chairperson, apart from the comments here under, the proposed amendments appear to be senseful, practical and intended to bring the Deeds Registry Act into line with formal requirements. Clause three of the Bill proposes that an amendment of section 3 of the Deeds Registry’s Act by extending duties of the Registrar. One of which is to record land tenure rights to include the rights which were historically excluded from the statutes due to the apartheid land policies and property rights.
Though the EFF have no problem with this principle, the EFF believes that when these duties are passed to the Registrar, legislation should be passed as to how land tenure rights
which now has to be recorded by the Registrar of Deeds are going to be established.
There are currently various forms of land tenure rights. Some of which are probably capable of easy determination and record and some of which could be probably very difficult to establish and to record. It is of concern that the Registrar of Deeds could be bogged down dealing with dubious and unclear rights or become involved in litigation in respect of matters which are somewhat vague.
Lastly, House Chairperson, we note that there is a proposed change is substance in that the Deeds Registry’s Regulations Board may no longer make regulations. Our proposal is that regulations must be made by the Minister on the recommendations of the Deeds Registry’s Regulations Board.
This also appears from the proposed amendment of section 9 of the principal Act. The EFF supports this Bill in this principle. Thank you.
Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Hon House Chairperson, the Deeds Registry Amendment Bill represents a significant step towards modernising and enhancing the efficiency, transparency and
regulatory framework of Deeds Registry in our country, a move that we welcome.
[Interjections.]
No, I would not support.
I would like to emphasize the recordal of land tenure rights lawfully issued by the government or any other competent authority. Secure property rights and effective land registration institution are fundamental pillars of a modern economy. They instil confidence in individuals and businesses to invest in the land and allow private enterprises to leverage land as collateral for borrowing thereby expanding job opportunities.
Additionally, these mechanisms enable the government to collect property taxes essential for financing infrastructure and services for our citizens. Improved security of land right is crucial for ensuring a sustainable and equitable food security.
IsiZulu:
Sihlalo, ngivumele ngithi, wemukeleka uzwakala unjalo umthetho kodwa okusemqoka ukuthi uNgqongqoshe womnyango ahlinzekele abantu abahlala endaweni ngokwabelana, abantu basemakhaya. Lo mthetho uma usuphasile kuyacaca ukuthi kusasa abantu kuyophetha ngokuthi bakhokhe izikweletu zezakhiwo zabo, uma bengakwazi ukukhokha, bayoshoniswa laphi labo bantu?
Ngakhoke akungezwakali engathi yinto enhle nenkulu eyenziwayo efaka bonke abantu esakeni kanti abasizwa abanye abantu abahluphekayo nabampofu, ngoba siyababona abantu abaphuma abasuka emadolobheni sebexakekile ngoba le emakhaya sebephuma ezindlini zabo bethenge imihlaba, bakhe izindlu ngezimali zabo kodwa uma umuntu ehluleka ukukhokhela izinkonzo zomasipala, akhishwe emzini wakhe. Bayoshona kuphi labo bantu?
Njengamanje sinezingane ehleli emigwaqeni esibabiza ngama- street kids. Ngokusobal sekuseduzane sibone sesinama-street families ngenxa yokuthi abantu bayobe behluleka ukuhlangabezana nalesi zikweleti zezakhiwo zabo. Ngifisa ukusho, mhlonishwa, kunjalo ngiyabonga ukuthi ngimile wangivumela ukuthi ngikhulume. Ngiyabonga.
Afrikaans:
Me T BREEDT: Huisvoorsitter, om hierdie wetgewing in die doodsnikke van die Sesde Parlement te laat goedkeur, is niks anders as die regerende party, wat na strooihalms gryp, om sy steun te probeer verenig nie. Die wysigingswetsontwerp het beloftes van land tenure rights, [grondbesitreg], maar versuim om in ag te neem dat wetgewing, wat spesifiek daartoe spreek, al vir meer as ’n dekade in die pyplyn is en steeds nie veel verder as net ’n plan is nie.
Dit maak leë beloftes en skep verwagtinge by Suid-Afrikaners. Dit skep verder ’n dilemma vir hierdie wetsontwerp, want daar is tans geen wyse van rekordhouding vir grond in tradisionele of communal [gemeenskaplike] besit nie. Dit het natuurlik weer die potensiaal om die aktekantoor kwesbaar te laat vir onnodige litigasie en geskille in die verband. Die probleem met titelaktes is egter baie groter as wat ’n wysigingswetsontwerp soos die kan regmaak.
Dis jaar na jaar die geykte storie. Duisende Suid-Afrikaners het nog nie hul beloofte titelaktes van die staat ontvang nie en alles behalwe die ANC word daarvoor blameer. Vir te lank is talle Suid-Afrikaners gereduseer tot plakkers op hul eie erwe, weens ’n belangrike stukkie papier wat ontbreek. Tydens elke
verkiesing voer die ANC onverpoos ’n veldtog om titelaktes aan landsburgers uit te deel. Hierdie is niks meer as ’n goedkoop politieke foefie, om stemme te probeer hou deur die sukkelende regerende party nie. So kan ons nie ’n land bou nie.
Die wysigingswetsontwerp stel ’n paar goeie verbeteringe voor, moderniseer die bestaande wet, maak voorsiening om elektronies te gaan en bring die wet in lyn met wetgewing soos die Openbare Dienswet. Dit beloof wel ook ’n klomp goed, en uit ervaring gaan die regering van die dag by implementering te kort skiet.
Die wet neem onder andere die magte van die raad wat akte- regulasies skep weg en gee dit aan die Minister. Nóg regulasies wat deur die regerende party uitgebuit gaan word tot niemand se voordeel, behalwe hul eie nie. Die obsessie van die regerende party om magte te sentraliseer in die uitvoerende gesag, spreek van ’n regering wat bang is om mag te verloor.
Verder is daar volgens die departement nie ’n finansiële implikasie op hul nie, maar daar word van al die grond, soos gemeenskaplike grond vergeet, wat nou geregistreer en
aangeteken moet word. Dit gaan beslis nuwe stelsels, wat geld gaan kos, tot gevolg hê.
Wat ook kommerwekkend is, veral in ag genome, die Grondonteieningswetsontwerp, wat tans by die ander Huis en wetgewers is, is artikel 6 van die wetsontwerp, wat voorsiening maak vir die statistiek van grondbesit, wat gegrond word op, onder andere, ras. Volgens die department is die bedoeling om grondhervorming se vordering te meet en om toe te sien dat toegang tot grond billik volgens ras is, maar ons almal weet dis vir geen ander rede as om te kyk wat die regering in die toekoms kan vat nie.
Soos oudergewoonte word een probleem opgelos en 10 probleme word geskep. Dit is hoekom daar ’n nuwe regering aan bewind moet kom. Dit is hoekom elke Suid-Afrikaner tydens die komende algemene verkiesing moet gaan stem. Stem vir ’n beter toekoms. Stem vir ’n beter Suid-Afrika. Ons kan Suid-Afrika herbou. Ek dank u.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: House Chairperson, how ironic that we are talking about land, rights and title deeds while houses are being demolished in Palestine. While some of the Zionist
supporters on the left will continue supporting them in the violation of human rights of our people, but I’m not surprised. House Chairperson, first of all I have a few questions, one to the EFF. Why have you made an about turn on the rights of the people that are living on the Ingonyama Trust land? Those people have absolutely no rights to the land.
Minister, I am glad that you are here to listen. The court had ruled that what the Ingonyama Trust was doing is incorrect. It is unlawful, it is illegal. They must return the money to those people that they have been leasing the land and taking the money. They cannot enter into any lease agreements. Now, what is happening about giving the rightful title deeds back to those people so that they can have ownership in terms of the indigenous land rights, that they ought to have been enjoying these days?
But strange enough, nobody’s talking about that on this side. I don't understand why. Are those people not human beings? Do they not have a right to have their title deeds. I see everybody is quiet. I don’t know, maybe I’m wrong. I don’t know. It seems to be a problem. But I’m not surprised because
it’s exactly the same thing that they are supporting the Zionist state of Israel in any event.
What about the Western Cape and the Khoi and San? The rightful heirs to the land, the water, the fishing and everything? What have they given back to them? Absolutely nothing, no respect. But they bow down to the toes of the Queen of England. But on the Khoi and San, they have very little or no respect for them whatsoever. So, what are you doing about that? Absolutely nothing. Why do you look so stunned? Is it not that the truth? Yes, it is.
Anyway, I think it is very important that we need to address these issues. I think the measures in terms of this Bill are very progressive and I think people need to be protected. But very importantly, I think we need to be consistent in what we do and what we say. It’s very easy to come here and grandstand, but when it affects you then you don’t have anything to say, you are silent, dead silent. Yhoo! I have never seen this House so silent before, like this.
I hope that we will facilitate and accelerate the process of ensuring the people on that Ingonyama Trust land, get back
their rights. I agree with what you’ve said earlier on that of course, they’ve got no rights on that land, they can do absolutely nothing. Worse than that, they have to pay every month. Can you imagine? Now, that is theft at the highest level as far as I’m concerned.
But anyway, I do hope my people have a wakeup call on this left here and consider the Khoi and San. It is very, very important because they are the rightful heirs of the land that you are actually occupying. The NFP will support this Bill.
Thank you very much.
Ms B TSHWETE: Hon Chairperson, the Deeds Registry Amendment Bill exists to make amendments to the Deeds Registry Act of 1937, to streamline certain administrative provisions; to provide for the recordal of land tenure rights. To further regulate the powers of the Minister and the Deeds Regulation Board, as well as the board composition. To extend the application of waiver of preference and to introduce further punitive measures regarding deviant conduct. In short, the Bill seeks to ensure improvement of the application and implementation of the principal Act, not what has been said earlier by my colleague on my left.
IsiXhosa:
Urhulumente weANC kunye neSebe leZolimo, uBuyekezo lwezeMihlaba noPhuhliso lwaMaphandle ... [Uwele-wele.]
Afrikaans:
Die HUIS VOORSITTER (Me M G Boroto): Asseblief, asseblief.
English:
We will take you out.
IsiXhosa:
Nksz B TSHWETE: Urhulumente weANC kunye neSebe leZolimo, uBuyekezo lwezeMihlaba noPhuhliso lwaMaphandle bayawuxhasa lo Mthetho-oyilwayo ulingisiweyo wobhaliso lweetayitile. Kutheni siwuxhasa nje? Kungokuba ...
English:
... this Amendment Bill allows for full alignment of the Deeds Registry Act to the Public Service Act of 1994. The principal Act currently gives the impression that, appointments of registrars, deputy registrars and chief registrar of deeds are effected in terms of Deeds Registry Act, but it is actually the Minister of Public Service and Administration.
IsiXhosa:
Lo Mthetho-oyilwayo ubonelela ngerekhodi lamalungelo omhlaba akhutshwa ngokusemthethweni ngurhulumente. Sele kuyiminyaka emine ukusukela oko isebe elisebenza ngeetayitile lagunyaziswa ukuba liqale le nkqubo yokurekhoda ...
English:
... the tenure rights ...
IsiXhosa:
... njengoko kucetyisiwe kuphononongo lobuphathiswa. Ukwaziswa kolungiselelo lokubhalwa kwamalungelo, kukuqondwa kweemfuno zokuqinisekisa ukuba amalungelo omhlaba ongekho sesikweni amkelwa ngokupheleleyo kwaye akhuselwe ngumthetho njengoko kufuneka ...
English:
... in terms of section 25(6) of the Constitution.
IsiXhosa:
Okokugqibela kutheni siwuxhasa nje? Irekhodi yamalungelo ibonelela ngokufanelekileyo ubume obuntsonkothileyo kunye nobunini bamalungelo kwiindawo zoluntu. Ivumela ukuba umgaqo-
nkqubo ubunjwe ngokwamava kunye nokuhlala kobomi babo bemihla ngemihla.
IsiXhosa:
Hon members will be aware that this House has in recent past approved the Electronic Deeds Register System Bill. This means that a computerised land information system will also cover land tenure in communal areas. At the moment, their rights in land are not recorded in the deeds registries. This is a major step forward in the right direction to bring registration and recordal of tenure in one registration system.
The system must provide for complex, overlapping, fragmented use right associated with communal land tenure by recognising secondary and more distant right holders. As the department reported to the committee, these issues are being addressed in the Communal Land Tenure Bill and communal land tenure policies. Recordal of land tenure rights brings tenure, security and certainty.
Another progressive introduction to the Bill is found in section 3(1)(i). This section provides for the registration of waivers of preference in respect of registered real rights in
land, in favour of mortgage bonds. Improvement in the application of deeds legislation and policies requires a well capacitated deeds office and deeds register system. As section
9 clearly shows, the establishment of Deeds Registered Regulation Board plays a vital role because of the evolvement of our deeds registry system.
IsiXhosa:
Malungu ahloniphekileyo eNdlu yoWiso-mthetho yeSizwe, kwisicelo sethu sokutshintshwa kwendlela yobunini bomhlaba njengoko sikhokelwa nguMgaqo-siseko woMzantsi Afrika, kubalulekile ke ukwazi ukuba ngoobani abaneziqwenga zomhlaba kwilizwe lethu.
Igatya lomthetho wesithathu kwisolotya leshumi laloMthetho- oyilwayo, libonelela ngokubandakanywa kommiselo ophathelelo kuqokelelo kolwazi lomntu ngokunxulumene nobuhlanga, ubuni, ubume kunye nobuzwe babanini mhlaba abaseMzantsi Afrika. Yiyo loon nto ke uza kuva izijwili nezililo zikaRakheli ezivela kula mavanga adubula inyanga xa kuza kudandalaziswa ezi nkcukacha. Bafuna abamazwe angaphandle babe ngabanini bomhlaba apha kweli lizwe lakowethu.
Thobani amaxhala ke mzi wakowethu kuba kaloku thina singurhulumente wentando yesininzi iANC asothuswa ngumsindo wempuku. Siyakwazi esikuphathisiweyo ngabemi boMzantsi Afrika ababeke ithemba labo kuthi ukuze ziqhube siphucule iimpilo zabo. Yiyo loo ndinethemba xa ndime kule ndawo ukuba baza kuqhubeka abemi boMzantsi Afrika basiboleke oo-X babo ukuze sikwazi ukuqhubekela phambili siyile imithetho engqamene nokuphuculwa kweempilo zabo. Ndiyabulela Sihallo weNdlu.
Mr S M JAFTA: The Deeds Registries Amendment Bill is a progressive piece of legislation in South Africa’s racial divisive deeds registration regime. The amendment provides, among others, for the recordal of land tenure rights and the issuing of certificates of registered titles which are incomplete or unserviceable. We have always held a view that tenure security can be achieved through, amongst others, having rigorous deeds registration regime to guarantee tenure certainty.
We welcome the proposed amendment to Section 4 of the Deeds Registries Act. The Registrar of Deeds is conferred discretion under this section with regards to the lodgement of all the relevant deeds. Both the powers of the Minister and the Deeds
Regulation Board are regulated to prevent the abuse of power. Punitive measures are also introduced regarding the deviant conduct.
We must also note that problems which were experienced with the lodgement of consent and operative deeds in instances of the change of names of big companies of close corporations are
... [Inaudible.] ... under the Bill. We are, however, concerned that these registration offices are still remote, and the Bill has not sought to use municipalities through the application of co-operative governance as extended these registration centres. We are also grateful to the committee for each transformative posture around this Bill. We do not make this point lightly. This amendment, for example, provides for the upgrading of title deeds in respect of the change of surnames of women. Double-barreled surnames can appear in deeds registration. The AIC supports the Bill, hon Chair.
Thank you.
Mr N P MASIPA: House Chairperson, the Bill before this House aims to amend the Deeds Registry Act 47 of 1937 by, amongst others, streamlining specific administrative provisions and enabling the recording of land tenure rights. We raised our
concerns in the committee regarding the inception of the recorder of land tenure rights without enabling legislations. The Ministry, having failed the people of the rural South Africa, has resorted to short cuts instead of addressing the root issues. Minister, we have supported per conditions as outlined by hon Mbabama.
Sepedi:
Re nyamile kudu ka gore Tona le kgoro ya gagwe ba paletiwe ke go phethagatia ditshephiio tia bona ka ngwaga wa 2014. Ba tshephiiitie MaAfrika Borwa gore ba tla fetiia Molaokakanywa woo o bitiwago gore ke Communal Land Bill ka Sejahlapi - ke Molaokakanywa wo o amago dinagamagae.
Badudi ba dinagamagae le bona ba nyaka ditokelo ya bodulo bjoo bo lego molaong go swana le bja batho ba metsesetoropong.
Nnete ke gore Tona o paletiwe ke go kgonthiiiia gore karolo 25(6) ya Molaotheo ya go thuia badudi ba magaeng ba Afrika Borwa. Phetoio ya Upgrading of Land Tenure Rights Amendment, Ultra, Bill e bile monyetla wo mobotse wa go rarolla mathata a batho ba go dula magaeng bao ba hlokago ditokelo tia mafase a bona – title deeds ka Sekgowa. Ga bjale go tsogile ntwa ya mahlo a mahubedu magoiing a gaborena. Maloko a gaborena a
mangwe ga a kgone go boloka bana ba bona mo magaeng a gabobona, lebaka e le gore kgoii ye nngwe e re naga ke ya bona
...
English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order. Order!
Mr N P MASIPA: House Chairperson, please ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I’ve done that. Proceed! Proceed!
Mr N P MASIPA: You must send her out. Due to the absence of title deeds, our families are subjected to these fights.
Sepedi:
Bana ba mpa ga ba nweiane meetse ka se sebaka.
English:
The escalation in the costs of burial expenses is nothing short of disaster brought by the corrupt ANC colleagues in South Africa.
Sepedi:
Go ya godimo ga ditshenyegalelo tia poloko ya bahu go hlotiwe ke go hloka maikarabelo a mmuio wa ANC. Bjale, ka kgwedi ya Mopitlo le a tiwa lena makhomreiti, re a tsena rena Union Buildings. DA e tlile go pholoia Afrika Borwa mo mathateng ao le a hlotiego mo nageng ...
English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order!
Mr N P MASIPA: ... and wasted years. We are going to fix it in the next five years with the moonshot approach. Thank you, House Chairperson.
Sepedi:
MODULASETULO WA NGWAKO (Moh M G Boroto): Ke a le leboga!
English:
Order! Order, hon members, order. You cannot shout like that. May I now welcome Dr Tlhape again to the podium.
Dr M M E TLHAPE: House Chairperson, Ministers, Deputy Ministers, hon members ...
Setswana:
... badudi ba Aforikaborwa.
English:
Research shows that South Africa has a land registration system as the only official and reliable source of land information which is based on land survey system. The present registration system does not provide for registration of communal land rights, and as a result, official information in respect of communal land tenure is currently insufficient and unreliable. Therefore, we need a comprehensive and effective land administration systems for all the land tenure rights, based on reliable land information in order to provide for sustainable development, and this is according to Gerrit Pienaar in 2013. The ANC supports the process of Deeds
communal land ...
Setswana:
... kgotsa tlhakanelo ya mafatshe, ke mokgwa wa bophelo wa metseselegae e le mentsi a magosi. Jaanong, go tlhokega bosupi ba gore baagi ke bona ba e leng beng ba lefatshe. Seno se kgoreleletsa tswelelopele jaaka ba sena tetla ya go tlhabolola
kgotsa go dirisa mafatshe jaaka ba eletsa, ka jaalo, re tlhoka mokgwa wa go kwadisiwa ga mafatshe le go tsenyeletsa mafatshe otlhe. Seno se ka sireletsa ditshwanelo tsa ba ba nnang mo go one, gape se neela puso matla gore ditlhabololo di ka lebisiwa kae. Ke mo mafelong a le ka emo re fitlhelang puso e tshwerwe matsogo, e palelwa ke go tlisetsa baagi ditirelo gonne ba se na bosupi ba gore ke beng ba lefatshe?
English:
When it comes to property ownership, hon members, the title deed is the legal evidence that you truly own a property, and it reflects the tenure value and usage of land in the context of developing sustainable land management and development policies. The benefits of what we are seeking to address here today are the following socioeconomic benefits, firstly, investment in housing as one of the indications of tenure security, because the residents are always willing to invest in home and environmental equipment. Secondly, access to formal credit through the use of property titles as collateral, you are able to access formal credit, and you are considered as a person who is reliable because you would not want to lose your property. So, this is more of selecting land title over other tenure options.
Setswana:
Se se leng sentle ke gore, batho botlhe ba ba adimang madi, ditshekatsheko kgotsa dipatlisiso di bontsha gore ba adimela go tlhabolola bogolobogolo metse ya bone.
English:
On the municipal government revenues, the integration of informal settlements into formal urban land and housing market, is widely held to increase potential for local governments in order to raise revenue from property taxes, as well as fees for land registration, transfer, capital gains and inheritance, and this can be used to finance the provision of the improved services and create virtual circle of the improved local government’s incompetence.
On the economic development for poverty reduction, the surveys in South Africa found out that holding a title deed made household heads feel more empowered as they have access to formal credits as we’ve indicated, but they are able to focus on other issues instead of worrying over a roof over their heads. On the impacts of urban land housing markets, the land titling is often promoted as a means of stimulating land
markets in which households use their properties to trade up as a means of increasing their title bags.
Setswana:
Jaanong, re rata go ka tsenya sekolo mo. Ntate Masipa, go fetolwa ga molawana o, karolo ya ntlha le ya bobedi di bua ka go gapa ...
English:
... through the registries, the chief registrar and the assistant registrar, we are building the capacity.
Setswana:
Go tlhola gotwe puso ga e na bokgoni. Mme Mmamoloko Kubayi fa a ne a ngangisana o rile, baagi ba matlo a di RDP ba tshwanelwa ke go nna le ditokomane tse di netefatsang gonna beng ba matlo, le fa go na le tshalelomorago, basimolole go dira jalo, mme go seka ga felele foo, baagi ba ba nang le ditsha kwa mafelong a baipei, ba kgona go tsenyetswa metsi, motlakase le dipeyipi tsa kgeleloleswe. Ditsha tseo, fa di setse di le mo boemong boo, ba kgona go fiwa ditokomane tse di netefatsang gonna beng ba matlo.
Ka go tlhabolola malapa a bone, baagi ba tla dira gore masepala o nne le letseno jaaka re kaile, le lekgetho le le tla kgobokangwang le tla nna a lintsi. A re kwadiseng mo mafelong a otlhe, le mo mafatsheng a tlhakanelo jaaka re ntse re bua gore baagi ba se ke ba tshwenyega. Re ne re kwaletswe ke Ntate Elcon Matlala wa ko Jane Furse a re kopa gore fa re fetisa molao o, re lebelele metsemagae le mafatshe a rona a tlhakanelo ...
English:
... this will result in dramatic increase in land values over a very short time spent, particularly in well located areas.
Setswana:
Ka gore o a re o tlhobogile Tona, re kopa gore molao o o fetisiwe go naya Tona maatla a go kgona go dira melaoana e e tla potlakisang tiriso ya melao gonne ka jaana maatla a tshwerwe ke bhoto. Ka go dira jaalo, re mo tetlelela go fetola karolo ya botlhano. Gape go na le karolo ya boratato e ke e ratang e e reng, re ye go ikwadisa ka bosemorafe le bong, le fa o le mang, o le moagi wa Aoforikaborwa kgotsa o se ene.
Motho mongwe o ntheile a re, fa molawana o o fitisiwa o tla tabogela kwa Western Cape go ya go tlhola gore lefatshe la Stellenbosch le le ko teng ke la ga mang. Ba a lela gonne ga ba batle gore re itsi, mme re a o fitisa molawana o gore re kgone go itsi gore beng ba mafatshe a ke bomang. Bagaetsho, re fetola mola o gore go nne le siriti mo baaging ba Aforekaborwa, go fedisa dikgotlhang tsa go lwanela mafatshe le matlo a bošwa, go matlafatsa le gore lo kgone go itirela letseno le le tla godisang ekonomi ya rona. Re a leboga.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND
REFORM: House Chair and hon members, I would like to thank the members who have participated in the discussion on this Deeds Registries Amendment Bill. I also would like to thank all of them for having reflected on some of the important areas that this Bill seeks to cover. However, I do need to appreciate concerns that have been made by members about the need to ensure that we also, simultaneously, pass the legislation that deals with the communal land administration. I also think it’s important to correct certain things that were said here that the ANC has dragged its feet on this matter. Hon Masipa, I’m not sure if you were here in 2004.
The first Communal Land Rights Act was actually passed by this House, however, it was taken by other members, obviously using their rights to court where certain sections were actually struck off by the court. So, it cannot be true to say that there was no attempt to address this matter. Secondly, one of the processes of land or of law making in our country, allows for consultation by many South Africans. You would know that the issue of communal land and the issue of multiplicity of tenurial systems has been a debate in South Africa which has led, finally, to go outside the country to look at what other systems that are operating, working with the traditional leaders and their communities, such that the legislation that we pass will actually be that with support for everyone.
Last year, we had a Communal Land Administration and Tenure Summit working with the traditional leaders, where the Members of this Parliament and others participated. We looked at how we can address this matter in order to bring about certainty. So, it cannot be true, coming from you as a member of this portfolio committee, in particular, to say that nothing has been done. I really do hope that as we go out even to canvass for votes, we become honest to the electorates. I’m happy that Nkosi Cebekhulu has also raised an important matter to say,
while we appreciate the importance of titling and that being forming part of security and ensuring economic investment, how do we address the issue that might result from landlessness as a result of people who may be mortgaging their homes and not being able to pay and losing those assets?
So, it’s some of those that matters, and we must work on and find a balance. I also think it’s important for us not to ignore the reality as we’ve seen, by again coming to my adopted province, your province, hon Masipa. If you drive just out of Seshego going to Moletjie, that area which looks like a suburban is actually a tribal land, in Moletjie. Because of people who are not able to pay for rates and cannot afford to pay for their household, they have moved, and have asked for land from communal areas. If you go to the Eastern Cape, in KwaNtebeni, there are beautiful houses and people are there.
So, what is it that we can do to have a multiplicity of
tenurial system that is codified, that can actually be accepted by our financial institutions and can be recorded in the deeds office?
Whether you start with the communal land and end with the deeds office, in my view, it is actually not a debate, but
what hon Mbabama has said, that it’s important to fast track. That is another issue. I think that the hon members of the DA have been missing me in this debate. Thank you very much. [Time expired.]
Debate concluded.
Bill read a second time.
CONSIDERATION OF MUNICIPAL FISCAL POWERS AND FUNCTIONS AMENDMENT BILL AND OF THE REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON FINANCE ON AMENDMENTS PROPOSED BY THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Mr M J MASWANGANYI: Okay.
Xitsonga:
Xichangana I xilungu. Inkomu, Mutshamaxitulu. Ndzi andlala ...
English:
... the Municipal Fiscal Powers and Functions Amendment Bill. The Standing Committee on Finance Report on this Bill was adopted on 17 May 2023. The Select Committee on Finance of the
National Council of Provinces, NCOP, adopted their committee report on 10 October 2023. The Bill was subsequently referred back to the Standing Committee on Finance, National Assembly, to consider proposed technical amendments to the Bill.
The standing committee was briefed on the proposed technical amendments to the Bill on 5 December 2023. The proposed technical amendments to the Bill are as follows: The definitions, development charges definition; the proposed amendment seeks to clarify that the development charges may contribute to the cost of capital infrastructure assets or engineering services or such costs as well as the cost of land for parks and open spaces in respect of an application for the use of land for residential purposes or both these costs as well as if approved by the Minister or municipal services other than the engineering services.
The other definition that had to be corrected is: Capital Infrastructure Assets. The proposed amendment seeks to clarify that municipalities can use development charges to contribute to infrastructure to service parks and open spaces and municipal services. In clause 4(g), 9(g) subsection 7 the National Treasury picked a typographical era which makes the
intention of subsection 7 incorrect. The amendment proposes to address the omission of the word “not” in section 97 subsection 7 so that it reads as follows. It is a long sentence I will not read it. You have it in the Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, ATC. Yeah, thanks Bheki with an “h” It is a grammatical correction, I don’t have to go into a long and detailed of it, the commas, etc, and all those.
In clause 4 section 9, the National Treasury proposed to substitute clause 91 for the following: Where a bulk or link engineering service is intended to service subsequent development and traverse the internal boundaries of the land development by an applicant, the municipality and the applicant must agree that the service must be regarded as an external or internal engineering service or if ... [Inaudible.] ... the municipality and the applicant do not agree as contemplated in paragraph (a) the municipality’s determination applies.
The committee agrees with the amendments proposed in the Bill as reflected in the ... [Inaudible.] ... list of the Bill. I therefore, move for the adoption of the Report.
Xitsonga:
Mutshamaxitulu, ndzi khensile.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Thank you very much, House Chair. I move:
That the Bill be adopted as amended. Thank you.
Declaration(s) of Vote:
Mr J ENGELBRECHT: Chairperson, as we are on the brink of another Budget Speech in Parliament, there is a real fear that when the Finance Minister delivers his Budget tomorrow the ANC will again raise taxes which the South Africans just cannot afford. After 30 years in government, the ANC has created an economy that cannot generate jobs. Crime has spiralled out of control, electricity and water shedding, financial greylisting, failing ports, ANC-run municipalities where the
... [Inaudible.] ... of mismanagement have completely eroded essential services and devastated infrastructure.
Chair, the proposed Amendment Bill before us is just an expansion of more tax powers, in effect giving the state more powers to tax taxpayers to pay for municipal infrastructure
that should have been maintained and developed by the state in the first place. You see, Chair, the ANC government needs more tax to prioritise their expenses such as the out of control and ballooning Public Sector Wage Bill and the billion rand bailouts to state-owned enterprises, SOEs, because they create the system that divert taxpayer’s money into the ever hungrier troughs of the ANC millionaires who live by the slogan: It is our time to eat. While they eat, the country spends more and more on repaying debt while those that can still pay taxes need to be taxed harder to feed the cadres. In short, a recipe for disaster and a failed state.
South Africa does not just need to be fixed, it needs to be rescued. There is only one party with a track record of delivery and a rescue plan, that is the DA. On Saturday we revealed our election manifesto which outlines our clear rescue plan for South Africa. It identifies seven key priorities that we will use to achieve in our first term in government. Number one, we will create 2 million new jobs; two, end load shedding and water shedding; three, half the rate of violent crimes in the country; four, crash corruption by abolishing cadre deployment; five, lift six million people out of poverty; number six, triple the number of grade for
learners who can read for meaning; and seven, ensure quality healthcare for all irrespective of economic status.
Chairperson, all of these can be achieved without raising taxes or raiding the reserve banks risk reserve. Under the DA’s rescue plan, we will create a new tax system that encourages investment, creates jobs and restore the public’s trust in the government’s ability to responsibly manage taxes. The current pool of taxpayers need to be grown. We need more taxpayers not higher taxes. Therefore, the DA will commit to no further tax increases and only adjusting annual tax brackets in line with inflation.
Chairperson, instead of raising value added tax, VAT, which will just further inflate the current cost of living, the DA will expand the list of zero-rated basket items to include essential protein and nutrition items such as chicken, beef, beans, wheat flour, margarine, peanut butter, baby food, tea, coffee and soup powder. Instead of increasing the country’s debt, the DA’s rescue plan includes getting our public finances under control by stabilising our debt, making state- owned enterprises financially sustainable and developing a savings culture through programmes that incentivises saving.
The DA’s proposed youth employment opportunities certificate will empower young employees to break free from sectoral wage agreements so they can negotiate flexible employment terms to get them started with their careers so they can build experience, thus, becoming more employable. Chair, it is easy to just raise taxes and use the current tax base to plug the holes left by the insatiable cadres’ never ending need to eat. However, it takes courage to turn it around and rescue this beautiful country of ours. As election 2024 draws ever nearer, let voters unite behind the only party that has the track record and the rescue plan to turn things around. In 2024, a vote for the DA is a vote to rescue South Africa. Thank you, Chair.
Mr M MANYI: Hon House Chairperson, the EFF is not going to waste its time on the little changes; we accept all of them. We will focus on the substance. This Bill represents a pivotal step towards enhancing the efficacy of the municipal governance and fostering more cohesive unitary state within South Africa. This legislation seeks to empower municipalities with increased fiscal autonomy and operational capacity, thereby aligning with the broader objectives of the Economic Freedom Fighters in eradicating provincial structures and
advancing a unified national framework. Therefore, the EFF supports this Bill.
At the heart of this Bill lies a recognition of the critical role municipalities play in driving local development, service delivery and economic prosperity. By granting municipalities enhanced fiscal powers and functions, the legislation acknowledges the unique needs and challenges faced by local communities and underscores the importance of situational decision making in addressing these particular issues effectively. Furthermore, it signifies a departure from the previous authoritarian approach to governance towards a more inclusive and participatory model that empowers local authorities to tailor policies and initiatives to suit their specific requirements on the ground.
One of the key hidden benefits of this Bill is its potential to clear the confusion and administrative inefficiencies that have plagued certain regions, such as the Western Cape. You can swear that Langa, Nyanga, Gugulethu, Khayelitsha, Mitchells Plain and Philippe are not in the same metro with Cape Town, Constantia, Clifton, Bantry Bay and Bishopscourt.
The erroneous and unconstitutional belief, propagated by some misguided political factions that this province could be transformed into an independent country is quite regrettable and must be rejected with contempt it deserves. Firstly, you must supply clean water to this Parliament so that we don’t use bottled water, then we can begin to trust you.
By devolving greater powers to municipalities, this legislation seeks to dispel such notions of separatist development and reaffirm the integral role of municipalities within the national framework. It underscores the fact that effective governance is contingent upon co-operation and collaboration between local and national entities, rather than the pursuit of divisive, racist and impractical agendas.
Moreover, aligning with the EFF’s vision of a unitary state, the Bill represents a crucial step towards streamlining administrative structures and eliminating redundant layers of government - provinces must go.
By consolidating authority at the municipal level, the legislation not only enhances efficiency and accountability, but also fosters a sense of unity, ownership and cohesion
among diverse communities. It lays a foundation for a more equitable distribution of resources.
This Bill empowers municipalities and by default, rendering outdated provincial structures obsolete. The Bill heralds a new era of inclusive and effective governance, wherein the needs and aspirations of all South Africans can be addressed comprehensively and equitably from one common centre. As such, it warrants indeed a wholehearted support of everyone. The EFF-led government will abolish provinces and give life to empowerment of municipalities. We still support the Bill.
Thank you.
IsiZulu:
Inkosi E M BUTHELEZI: Ngiyabonga kakhulu, Sihlalo, useshilo usihlalo wekomidi lapha ukuthi lo mthetho sawubuka nyakenye ngenyanga kaNhlaba, ngakhoke angisukwanda ngomlomo njengembenge kodwa ngizophawula nje amaphuzwana ambalwa ukuqinisekisa ukuthi sasekana ngokuphelele.
Lona eminye yemitheshwana emqoka nonezinjongo ezinhle kuphela nje umangabe uzolandelelwa ngendlela okufanele ulandelelwe ngayo ukuze kufezeke izinjongo zawo. Kule Ndlu miningi
imithetho esesiyiphasisile emihle nengasiphumelelisa njengesizwe kodwa kuyasala ekwenziweni kwalokho ekufanele sikwenze ukuze leyo mithetho leyo inikeze impumelelo kubantu bakithi esibahlinzeka ngayo.
Kuzobaluleka, Sihlalo, ukuthi siqinisekise lokhu okulandelayo uma siweseka lo mthetho, ukuthi sikhuculula konke ukungcola kubo bonke omasipala okufaka phakathi inkohlakalo nokusetshenziswa kwemali ngendlela eyingcithakalo nengenayo inzuzo. Siqinisekise futhi ukuthi uma sebeziqoqile lezi zintela ezikoleni nokunikeza izinkonzo imali ayehli ngemilenze kulabo abaqondene futhi akusetshenziswa ubungani ekuhlonzweni ukuthi imalini ezokhokhiswa loyo ozonikeza inkonzo yokuthuthukisa indawo leyo. Kuyiqiniso futhi ukuthi njengezwe sesikubeke kwacaca kule Ndlu izikhathi eziningi ukuthi njenge- IFP siyakweseka ukuthi omasipala bahlinzekwe ngezimali ezithe xaxa njengoHulumeni ophambi kwabantu. Lena ngenye yezindlela eyofeza lokho ukuthi bakwazi ukuqoqa izinkonzo ezithile bahlawulise futhi izintengiso ezithile ukuze bakwazi ukufeza izidingo zabantu bakithi.
Kodwa lokhu esengikusho ngenhla yikhona engibona ukuthi okubalulekile ukudlula konke nesethemba ukuthi lo mthetho
uphasa kahle kulesi sikhathi ngoba lukhulu ushintsho elizokwenzeka maduzane nje uma sekuza lolu khetho lolu ngoba uHulumeni lo usukhombise ukudelela abantu nokungabazi ngokuthi bayini, isikhathi sake sesiphelile. Isikhathi esingena kuso manje yisikhathi esihke esinomdlandla kwezepolitiki oyimisele ukuthi zonke izinqumo nemithetho esiyishayayo kufezwe njengoba kufanele
Ngiyabonga kakhulu, Sihlalo. Njengeqembu le-IFP saweseka lo mthetho nyakenye namanje futhi sisaweseka. Ngicela ukuxwayisa kakhulu lapha umhlonishwa u-Skosana kule mizuzwana embalwa ukuthi uma sincokola kuhle kodwa kukhona udaba engifuna ukuthi singancokoli ngalo, lolu lokubuyisana phakathi kweqembu le-ANC ne-IFP ngoba umholi wethu wahamba inhliziyo yakhe ingekho yinhle ngalo. Udaba lwabantu abadala okufanele uma sincokola siqiniseke ukuthi siqhela kude nalo. Ngiyabonga.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you. Freedom Front Plus?
An HON MEMBER: No declaration, House Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you. UDM? ATM? GOOD? NFP?
Mr B N HERRON: Chair, GOOD.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Oh, sorry, GOOD?
Mr B N HERRON: May I continue? House Chair?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Are you proceeding? I didn’t hear you well they were making noise. I am sorry, Mr Herron.
Mr B N HERRON: ... [Inaudible.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Your sound, I can’t hear you. What is he saying? Is he not taking part? Okay, proceed ...
Mr B N HERRON: House Chair, I would like to make a declaration.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Oh, I am waiting for you to proceed. Hon Shaik Emam, can you take a seat on the left?
Proceed but we can’t hear you. I think you have ... Do you have earphones on?
Mr B N HERRON: No.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): There is something ... Proceed, yes, proceed.
Mr B N HERRON: Thank you, House Chair. House Chair, the development charges arise out of an application by a property owner to change the development of the property from its as of right development. The underlying principle is that if the property owner develops the property as of right and in terms of the property zoning and bulk rights, then no development charges levied because the proposed development in fairy has no burden on the existing or publicly funded and planned infrastructure. We support the principle and the clarity provided in the proposed Bill.
When a property owner seeks to increase the development rights and impose unplanned extra use on public infrastructure, then there’s a duty to pay for the additional infrastructure that is needed, and we thus support this Bill. However, there is a missed opportunity to take the principle of as of right development versus additional development rights further. To provide for land value capture or land value sharing. The Minister of Finance ... [Inaudible.] ... should be working on amendments to the Municipal Fiscal Powers and Functions Act to deal with land value capture linked to amendments to Schumer.
When a property owner or developer applies for additional development rights on the property, this is usually because of public and other investment surrounding the property. The property has become more valuable because of the investment of the state, national, provincial or local government and other private investments, and the increased value of the property lends itself to increased development. These development rights belong to the public and right now, other than through development charges, are planning regime is giving these extra development rights away free of charge without requiring any contribution to public goods like affordable housing. Land value capture or land value sharing is a suitable tool to support a mandatory inclusionary housing policy, and we urge the Ministers to take this work to its logical conclusion.
Thank you.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Thank you, hon Chairperson. When we talk about the word municipal, it reminds me of the plight of the Palestinian people. When they have to move from one municipal boundary to the other, they have to go through various checkpoints. Even if they want food, they to go from one area to one municipal boundary to another. It cannot go through because of the Zionist State of Israel and the barbaric lifestyle and conduct.
Now, hon Chairperson, the amendment will provide for uniform regulation of development charges. Development charges are a once-off charge levied by a municipality on a landowner as a condition for approving land development applications. Now the question is, is this going to encourage development or not? To some extent, yes, it would. In certain areas, perhaps it will affect them. You can see the comments that were made by the DA when you talk about, particularly the Western Cape and the city of Cape Town, where large tracts of land are being sold to foreigners.
That is why I repeatedly call for the people in the Western Cape, and particularly in Cape Town, to rise, and rise now, before there will be no land left. This beautiful City of Cape Town and this Western Cape will be handed over to foreign nationals with foreign interests, particularly the Zionists.
If you do not act now, that is what is going to happen in the future.
So, I am urging all our brothers and sisters here, of whatever race or whatever gender, to come together and stop the path that the DA and others are following in colluding with the Zionist State of Israel. I can assure you that the intention is to turn this into a Zionist state. I can assure you that is what it is all about. [Interjections.]
Mr D BERGMAN: Point of order!
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: When we talk about the issue of land and things, on land restitution, they have been selling large tracts of land away, repeatedly, in full view of the country [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Bergman. Our screens are open. We don’t see your hand. You don’t have to shout like you have done. Hon Shaik Emam, take your seat, please. Hon Bergman.
Mr D BERGMAN: We have heard the hon Shaik Emam, for many speeches now, making opportunity to incite violence.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Bergman, what is your point of order? That is not how you start a point of order. What’s your point of order?
Mr D BERGMAN: The hon member is inciting violence on the streets of Cape Town. He should be brought to order for inciting violence on the streets of Cape Town.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): That is not a point of order in my opinion. If you have an issue, you know what to do. Proceed hon Shaik Emam.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Chairperson, that is not inciting violence, but asking us given from the history where we come from, we don’t want to go back there. The land belongs to all who live
in it, I have said it before, not those who want to come here to steal the land and then say it belongs to them. It belongs to us South Africans. So, let us protect our interests; let us protect our land.
We have a right to protect it from anybody that is attempting to want to take that right away from us. That is what I am calling on South Africans in the Western Cape particularly to do, and to start right now, before it is too late because what you lose, you are not going to get back. So that is basically what I’m actually saying.
On the other hand, I want to talk about these municipalities, particularly if you look at KwaZulu-Natal and many of the others. The corruption level that these municipalities have. So, the concern is, the more money that is going to come in; the more money for them to steal. That is what it is all about. Thank you. The NFP supports this Bill.
Sepedi:
Moh L N MJOBO: Modulasetulo wa Ngwako, maloko kamoka go ya ka maemo a lena a go fapafapana, ke re dumelang.
English:
The ANC welcomes the amendments brought by the Select Committee to an important piece of legislation at local government besides being central to providing basic services has a critical developmental role to play in building local economic development and changing people’s lives for the better and more popular Parliament.
Sepedi:
Malobanyana mo ka pulo ya Palamente, re kwele tia masetlapelo – taba ye bohlokohloko yeo e aparetiego Masepala wa Toropokgolo Tshwane. Tihelete ya go fiwa mahala, yeo go no thwego tieang tihelete ie le e iomiieng le tle le kgone go thuia batho ba Masepala wa Toropokgolo Tshwane, e boetie morago. Aowa mara, ke masetlapelo. Ye yona, aowa batho ba Modimo, ga se ya loka. E tla loka bjang mara taba ye?.
English:
The ANC believes that for the economy to grow and develop, infrastructure investment and build is fundamental to providing an expansionary base for the economy through job creation, to deal with overcoming poverty levels. This applies to both urban and rural municipalities. As the ANC-led
government we have Cogta, Salga and other central stakeholders been seized with the state of local government finances. It is an area that most municipalities struggle with to an extent that they just returned the money back.
Sepedi:
Aowa, batho!
English:
This leads to under investment, both in maintaining existing infrastructure and building new infrastructure to meet the demands of an urbanisation and rural development, and the rapid rise in the demand for basic services. The direct impact is that municipalities try to provide both the availability and reliability of municipal services, and this directly impacts on local economic development and additional private investment draws away.
Land and development project are often delayed by the unavailability of late delivery of bulk infrastructure. When we passed the amendment Bill last year, we were clear as the ANC that the regulation of the powers of municipalities to levy developmental charges was a very necessary intervention
to build local economic development and ensure that municipalities are anchors in the provision of services.
Therefore, the regulations needed to enable municipalities to levy development charges are critical and intense, attempting impact to strengthening the financial sustainability of municipalities, to enable municipalities to mobilise their own revenue resources, to finance the rehabilitation of existing infrastructure. The development of new infrastructure helps to deal with a situation where infrastructure funds in a municipality are either exhausted or have been used on other programs.
The vision, therefore, of what the ANC-led government is trying to do with this amendment Bill has the foresight of ensuring greater reliability and availability of municipal infrastructure to sustain economic activities and increase the municipal revenue base. Whilst development changes as a source of municipal revenue exist under various pieces of municipal legislation, none provides clarity on how development charges should be levied or calculated.
This has created fertile ground for litigation and delays in the implementation of infrastructure projects. The negative results of all this have been that municipalities have drawn back, realising that litigation caused negativity impacts on scarce resources. Therefore, municipalities have not fully utilised development charges, despite their potential of providing an alternative option for finance municipal infrastructure.
The changes that the Select Committee, led by the ANC, have brought strength to the amendment Bill, bringing greater sharpness and clarity. Thus, doing away with any ambiguity and avoiding chances of litigation. These are not technical changes as some would want to say; the changes that are being placed before us today strengthen the policy intent of what government is doing and deals with restraint as well.
Therefore. The amendment that the cost of capital infrastructure asset required to meet increased demand for existing and planned external ...
Ms O M C MAOTWE: Point of order, Chair!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Maotwe, we have the screens. Why don’t you raise your hand?
Ms O M C MAOTWE: Oh, my apologies. I am using a different gadget.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Okay. What is your point of order? Proceed.
Ms O M C MAOTWE: Yeah, I have raised my hand. Can the speaker explain what she is saying because I can’t hear what she is saying. Can she explain in simpler terms what exactly she is saying?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Okay. Thank you. That’s not a point of order. Proceed, hon member.
Ms L N MJOBO: Therefore, the amendment that the cost of capital infrastructure assets required to meet increased demand for existing and planned external engineering services included in the amending Bill is critical to ensure that development changes can be levied in this key and expanding area.
Similarly, the expanded definition of capital infrastructure asset means land, property, buildings or any other any other immovable asset, including plant and equipment required for the provision of an engineering service, parks and open spaces or municipal service is provided for, instead of narrowing down definitions, which then results in the exclusion of the ability to levy development changes. The amendments also have supported the long-view policy position of the ANC, that where link engineering is ... [Time expired.] Thank you.
Sepedi:
Tshwane e loke!
Hon members, are there any objections to the motion as moved by the Chief Whip of the Majority Party?
Objections noted.
Report is agreed to.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF HOME AFFAIRS ON ESTABLISHMENT OF ELECTORAL REFORM CONSULTATION PANEL
Mr M S CHABANE: House Chair and hon members, the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs has considered the report by the Minister of Home Affairs on the establishment of an Electoral Consultation Panel. This is in line with the provision in the Electoral Amendment Act provided in section 23(1) that the Minister of Home Affairs, within four months after commencement of the Electoral Amendment Act 2023, must establish the Electoral Reform Consultation Panel. Emphasis is made that the panel must perform its function in a manner that enables Parliament to exercise its constitutional powers to determine the electoral system.
In the report ... the committee, on the process of the establishment of the panel, the Minister reported that the second notice to advertise in the Government Gazette was on
21 July 2023, and in consultation with the Independent Electoral Commission, IEC, it was extended to 11 August 2023.
In constituting the panel, the Minister must call on the public and any interested parties to nominate South Africans who meet the following criteria: Have the necessary skills, experience, academic qualifications in the administration and running of elections; are not Members of Parliament or of any
provincial legislature; and have not in the past 12 months been office bearers or employees of any political party.
As a committee, we raised a number of concerns that include the deadline to establish the panel which has been missed, that the nominated list does not meet the demographics of South Africa and that the list lacked representation of both young people and women. In light of the concerns raised, on
4 December 2023, the committee recommended to the Minister to consider reopening the process to call upon members of the public as well as interested parties to nominate fit and proper South Africans to participate in the panel, including the IEC representative who will serve as a resource person on electoral matters. The committee further resolved on the timeframe that the Minister must report ... the proposed names for consideration by this august House.
The committee tables this report for consideration by this august House, conscious of the fact that the process to appoint the panel within the legislative timeframe has lapsed, and to readvertise for broader consultation. I thank you.
There was no debate.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chair, I move that the report be adopted by the House. Thank you.
Declarations of vote:
Mr A C ROOS: House Chair, the ANC does not want electoral reform because the ANC, to quote Kgalema Motlanthe, has no appetite for an electoral system that creates accountability. Who has taken accountability for the ANC's R16 billion underexpenditure in the last financial year? So, you should look at the log in your own eye before you look at the splinter in somebody else's eye. Now, in the time it's taken for them to ... [Inaudible.] ... establish the electoral reform panel, they have drafted and pushed through electoral reform changes that puts R35 million that was meant for smaller political parties into their pockets. So, we find ourselves failing to appoint an electoral reform panel months after it was supposed to be established.
The criteria for persons to serve on the panel in terms of the Electoral Amendment Act is the necessary skills, expertise, experience, knowledge or academic qualifications in the administration of elections or constitutional law. However, like a stop sign to a ministerial motorcade, the Minister saw
these requirements as a mere suggestion and decided to include additional criteria such as demographics, while at the same time deciding to exclude suitably qualified persons.
However, according to the committee, the list still lacked representation of women and young people, and resolved that the process of public nomination should be reopened to attract more females and young people. So, the question is, where are the Tintswalos?
In late 2022, Minister Blade Nzimande confirmed that out of
100 students that start school, only 12 qualified to get into university, and out of those only four leave with a degree. How many of those would achieve a legal qualification? According to Progress in International Reading Literacy Study, a staggering 81 out of those 100 Grade 4 pupils in South Africa cannot even read for meaning. How many of these today cannot even read a job advert, never mind apply?
The DA proposes a bold solution when we take over government in 2024 that will ensure that learners can write and count. Each child will get 210 full teaching days per year and
learners in Grades R to 3 will get two hours a day of reading and writing and one hour of mathematics.
Afrikaans:
Dit sal die aantal Graad 4 leerders wat vir betekenis kan lees verdriedubbel en ’n kans gegee word om voort te gaan om so kwalifikasies en ondervinding te verwerf om aansoek vir ’n rol op ’n Paneel van Verkiesingshervorming te kan doen of ander werk waarin hulle belangstel te kry.
English:
We wonder where the youth applicants for the electoral reform panel are. According to the latest Quarterly Labour Force Survey, 69% of youth aged 15 to 24 are locked out of opportunity and would love to be able to apply. Growing up, they could barely afford to eat, never mind be expected to concentrate on their studies. This is why the new DA-led government in 2024 will ensure that the Child Support Grant is increased to the same level as the official food poverty line. This means that the Child Support Grant under a DA government will be increased from R510 to R760, an extra R250 per recipient every month.
Then there are the suitably qualified nominees for the panel who met all the legislated requirements and who were rejected for requirements that are not in the Act.
Afrikaans:
Dit is hoekom ’n DA regering kaderontplooiing sal afskaf en kriminaliseer. Die feit dat die Minister nie ’n punte tabel kon verskaf wat die gewig van die verskillende kriteria en die tellings van elke genomineerde toon nie, sê vir ons dat hulle kriteria opgestel het om diegene wat nie op ’n kaderontplooiingslys is nie, te diskwalifiseer.
English:
The DA agreed to allow the process to reopen as applicants were unfairly disregarded but does not support the additional criteria. As much as the DA rejects quotas in favour of real interventions that benefit all South Africans, we have to recognise that the lack of women and youth applicants 30 years into democracy shows how badly this government has failed South Africans, it's failure to provide a decent education and increase the pool of qualified young people that can access opportunity. It is up to every South African to register and
cast their vote in 2024 to ensure that this ANC government is held accountable through the ballot box.
Mr Y TETYANA: House Chair, the EFF rejects the names that were presented to the portfolio committee because they were not a demographic representation of the people of South Africa. Out of the people that were submitted, only four women were nominated and no young person or people with disabilities were nominated to form part of the panel. The EFF will never support anything that does not include women who constitute the majority in this country, which is about 51% of the population.
The Electoral Reform Panel is tasked with serious work in looking at ways to improve our electoral system and ensure that we are alive to the current realities. The EFF will pay close attention to the nomination process and ensure that the people who will form part of this panel are not in any way linked to any of the George Soros funded nongovernmental organisations, NGOs, whose ultimate goal is to weaken the black majority in South Africa.
IsiXhosa:
Amanye amagama Sihlalo ...
English:
... that have been recommended was Johann Kriel, an apartheid judge who sent revolutionaries to prison and who today is in the forefront of attacking black judges on the panel. Johann Kriel made his views on the electoral panel clear during his speech in the Helen Suzman Foundation.
IsiXhosa:
Uthe yena akasiboni isizathu ...
English:
... why we should have this panel. Kodwa, this so-called Minister of ours, goes and appoints him to serve on this committee, which is something which we should be ... [Inaudible.] The Minister opted to leave credible persons ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon member ...
IsiXhosa:
... ndicela ume kancinci ...
English:
... there is a point of order.
IsiXhosa:
Mnu Y TETYANA: Ixesha lam Sihlalo.
English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): What’s your point of order, hon member?
Mr B A RADEBE: Hon Chairperson, I’m rising on Rule 83. We cannot refer to a member of the House as a so-called so-and- so. I think it is derogatory and the member must withdraw that. Thank you.
IsiXhosa:
Mnu Y TETYANA: Hayi, niyancokola ngoku.
English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you very much, hon members. I would advise that whenever we refer to members we do that in respectful terms. In this particular
case, the hon member of the EFF did not necessarily point to a particular person ...
Mr Y TETYANA: Thank you, sir.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): ... however I will request that whenever we raise issues of this nature or talk to each other, let us recognise the fact that we need to respect each other please.
Mr Y TETYANA: Thank you, Chair. Should I proceed, Chair?
Mr B A RADEBE: Chairperson ... [Inaudible.] ... myself, basically I know that under Rule 92 I was supposed to go the other route. However, he referred to the so-called Minister who presented a list; a so-called Minister.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Okay, thank you very much. Hon Radebe, I have ruled on that but I will seek advice on that and come back. Hon Manyi, what is your point of order?
Mr M MANYI: Chair, I think you sort of covered me because you’ve ruled on the matter. It’s not clear why hon Radebe is resisting.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Okay, hon members, thank you very much. Let’s continue. The IFP?
Mr Y TETYANA: My time. I have not finished speaking, Chair.
An HON MEMBER: [Interjections.] ... sit down ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): The IFP? By the way, the hon member is not finished yet. It’s not an echo. [Inaudible.] Please continue with your input. Please continue with your input, hon member.
An HON MEMBER: Remove this person. He’s wasting our time. [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: You have 15 seconds. Please finish quickly in
15 seconds.
IsiXhosa:
Mnu Y TETYANA: Ndicela undiyeke ndiqhubeke. Kukho abantu abathethayo apha kodwa abafanelekanga ukuba bayathetha.
English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon ...
[Inaudible.] ... please.
English:
The Minister opted to leave credible persons like Mr Terry Tselane to accommodate some ... [Inaudible.] ... like Kriegler. Part of the things that the Electoral Reform Panel must look into is the synchronisation of national, provincial and municipal elections, the automatic inclusion of all South Africans of voting age onto the national voters’ roll and the lowering of the voting age to 16 years.
The EFF believes that the synchronisation of elections will significantly reduce the cost of running elections and increase voter turnout. The EFF believes that we must do away with registering people to vote. Each and every South African citizen of voting age must be automatically included on the voters’ roll. The IEC spends a lot of money on voter
registration but our voters’ roll still excludes a significant number of people.
Furthermore, we believe that the voting age should be lowered to 16 years. It is the young people of this country who in their school uniforms liberated this country from apartheid. Many of them were learners below the age of 18. If young people can make such a profound contribution to our struggle and pay the ultimate price for it, why should we excuse them from choosing a government of their own choice?
The electoral panel must look into this new phenomenon of white billionaires being initiators of some of these political parties that are mushrooming in South Africa. It is not a coincidence that all political parties are funded by white political billionaires who hold the same views on critical issues facing our nation because of people who sponsor them and dictate to them what are the views that should be dealt with. We reject this report that has been presented by Home Affairs. Thank you, Chair.
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Hon House Chairperson, last week during the Sona debate, we heard many Alice in Wonderland tales, as
the ANC tried to paint a picture of its so-called successes, while also trying to spin its failures, like its immigration crisis or load shedding, which hon Sylvia Lucas shockingly labelled as not the end of the world.
However, the award for the best spin gone wrong goes to hon Manamela, who told us that he could not remember anything the late IFP founder did. Hon Manamela is far too young to be suffering from amnesia, so let me remind this House about Prince Buthelezi’s work as a Minister of Home Affairs, a position he served in for a decade.
During this time, he championed electoral reform, which led to the Van Zyl Slabbert report. At the time, Prince Buthelezi said, and I quote:
The electoral system defines the terms of the fundamental compact between the voters and the elective representatives. It is that which defines the very matrix of our democracy.
We appointed the electoral task team. Now, more than ever before, the public debate is focusing on the features of an electoral system, which can produce genuine accountability. There is a general recognition that it is incumbent upon us
to strengthen the bond of accountability. We must do so in a system, which also meets the other criteria of fairness, inclusivity and simplicity.
Electoral reform, therefore, and strengthening accountability, was the work Prince Buthelezi started many decades ago. That was IFP leadership. Instead of implementing Mtwana’s work, the ANC simply rejected this report. Thereby, proving that a robust, accountable electoral system wasn’t in their best interest.
Decades later, South Africans were forced to approach the Constitutional Court to secure electoral reform, and therefore the report before us today again speaks to electoral reform.
This time, the Minister of Home Affairs was tasked to establish the electoral reform consultation panel, much like reinventing the wheel. The report indicates that the Minister was late in starting the work on the panel and that the applicants did not meet the specified criteria. And therefore, the process should be reopened. We agree with all these points.
In conclusion, the trust deficit between our leaders and our voters is now unreachable. South Africa will make itself heard at the ballot box in 2024, by voting for the IFP, because we need more than just electoral reform, we need a change in leadership.
Afrikaans:
Die IFP ondersteun die verslag en ons vra ook Suid-Afrikaners om te gaan registreer om the stem. Dankie.
Mr F J MULDER: Hon House Chair, the South African political landscape is complex, with diverse views on electoral reform. Research and consensus on significant changes are difficult, especially given the historical distrust between parties. The Act requires the Minister to have regard for the need of the panel to be broadly representative of the South African society. The panel’s mandate focuses on the electoral system for national and provincial elections, leaving out key areas like local government elections and party funding, which can hinder comprehensive reform.
Public participation with open consultations and public submissions can bring diverse viewpoints and ideas to the table, fostering engagement and legitimacy.
Learning from other countries’ successful electoral reforms can inform South Africa’s approach and the identification of specific issues hindering fair and effective elections, and proposing actionable solutions can increase chances of implementation. It is therefore important to involve experts with diverse backgrounds and neutral stances that can add credibility and objectivity to the reform process.
The overall the achievability of the Electoral Reform Council remains uncertain and overcoming the challenges depends on the panel’s ability to engage stakeholders effectively, build consensus, and propose practical solutions within the given timeframe. The final impact of the council will depend not only on its recommendations but also on the government’s willingness to implement them. Ultimately, the achievability of meaningful electoral reform in South Africa hinges on co- operative efforts, commitment to democratic principles, and a collective desire for a fair and effective electoral system.
The process should be reopened.
Afrikaans:
Tyd sal leer dat Suid Afrika uiteindelik ’n totaal nuwe bedeling benodig en dat ’n gedokterde stemstelsel geensins ’n volhoubare demokrasie in Suid-Afrika sal bevorder nie. Die VF Plus steun nie die verslag voor die Huis vandag nie. Dankie.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Chairperson, allow me to thank this department for ensuring that Palestinians can come to this country without a visa. So, I think I must commend them for the manner in which they accelerated the process of ensuring visa-free entry into South Africa. However, at the same time, I hope that they will put stringent measures to ensure that Zionists coming into the country are not coming here with any hidden agenda but are coming to visit and return timeously.
Now, we welcome the panel that has been put in place. However, we have a few concerns, which we think should be included, and/or this panel should consider in the future. [Interjections] I think the issue of ensuring that a conflict resolution committee be put in place at a level that will be able to deal with instability and infighting in political parties. And I say this simply because millions of rands of taxpayers’ money are lost in running to court. And if they
can’t solve their own problems, then how are they expected to govern?
So, I think if we can put a committee of this in place, it will go a long way in trying to save taxpayers’ money. And if people can’t abide by it, then, of course, you should shut them down.
Of course, we need to deal with the issue of funding, because I think, we have level the playing field. I know the larger parties believe that they are entitled to a lot more. Yes, but I think the opportunity should be given to smaller parties to also participate. This must, of course, be on condition they don’t sell their principles and ethos for a couple of rand here and there, which is what is happening in some of the coalition governments that we currently have.
I did say that they must ensure that the elections are free and fair, but I think we must be very cautious. I hear many people are talking about democracy. Democracy is an ideology that has been imposed on us by the West and colonialists. And that is to achieve their own selfish objectives. We are falling into the trap, which causes a lot of division and
mayhem amongst our people. You know, my former leader used to say, and she once said to me, too much democracy is sometimes counterproductive. So, she saw through the colonialists and what their intention is when they introduced these things.
So, I hope that this particular panel will take these things into consideration and ensure that, when we have elections, they will be free, fair, credible and very importantly, they will also concentrate on things like media coverage, how certain media houses prefer certain people, because they have been captured. So, these are some of the things that we are hoping will be dealt with by this panel. Thank you very much.
Mr K B PILLAY: Hon House Chair, hon Members of Parliament, allow me to take this opportunity to appreciate the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs for tabling this report on our behalf for consideration by this House. In the same vein, we appreciate the engagements of the members of the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs regarding this matter and whose recommendations have been adequately presented by the chair.
This report tabled deals with a matter that is critical for the entrenchment of our democratic system. It is therefore a matter that should be undertaken in a manner that appreciates its weight. One of the indicators of democratic practices include the participation in elections, both for the candidates, who intends to be representatives of the people, as well as the people, as voters.
This participation in elections should happen in an environment that is free and fair. Our electoral system, therefore, should have at its core, the assurance of free and fair elections. As the ANC, we stand in support of the report of the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs on the establishment of the electoral consultation panel.
In this regard, we appreciate the work done by the Department of Home Affairs, in line with the Electoral Amendment Act that provides for the establishment of the electoral consultation panel that will independently investigate, consult on, report on and make recommendations, in respect of potential reforms of the electoral system for the election of the National Assembly and the election of the provincial legislature, as the chair of the portfolio committee has alluded to.
As a committee, we raised a few concerns regarding the nominated list of candidates that will potentially serve on the panel. And amongst this, was that the list, as presented to the committee falls short of representation of the demographics of our country, the representation of women, which we deem crucial in this democracy, as well as young people that are not included. We are therefore in support of the recommendations of the committee that the process of the nomination of candidates to serve on the panel be extended, with a view of ensuring that the concerns raised are taken into consideration.
We reiterate our support for the recommendations that members of the Independent Electoral Commission, the IEC, should also be allowed to be members of the panel, should they be nominated. Their presence and participation in the panel will enrich the process, given their knowledge, experience and skills on electoral matters.
In this regard, we urge South Africans to identify men and women, including young people, who are fit and proper to be part of the panel that will make recommendations to Parliament
on the kind of electoral system that South Africa should consider, going forward.
The matter of electoral reform is a critical issue for our democracy. It requires an inclusive and consultative process that will ensure that, in the end, we find the all-inclusive electoral system that we need. This process is borne out by the process of the amendment of the Electoral Act, to give effect to the Constitutional Court order, regarding the provision of independent candidates to participate in the elections.
This process must be consistent with our democratic system of representative and participatory democracy. It should ensure that South Africans from all walks of life participate both at the level of being considered to be part of the panel and also through their representatives in the process. Of critical importance, is that the nomination of candidates to serve on the panel should consider the qualifications, experience and skills of individuals they wish to nominate. This must also be South Africans of high ethical stature.
By emphasizing women and the youth, the intention is to ensure that the voices of our women and young people find expression in this process that will go a long way in defining the electoral system of South Africa.
Now, let me remind this august House that it is a silly season and politicking and grandstanding is the order of the day, but let us remind ourselves that the matter at hand is a discussion of the electoral reform panel, and not the failed moon pack shot or false images of a failed DA regime.
We conclude by urging this House to consider and support the report as tabled, and, in particular, to support the recommendations as presented. I thank you.
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus, African Christian Democratic Party and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT OF WORLD TRADE ORGANISATION (WTO) FISHERIES SUBSIDIES AGREEMENT IN TERMS OF SECTION 231(2) OF CONSTITUTION, 1996
Ms J HERMANS: House Chairperson, greetings to our hon Chief Whip, Pemmy Castelina Majodina and all members of this august House. On the 19th of December 2023, the Minister of Trade, Industry and Competition tabled a request for Parliament to approve the ratification of the World Trade Organization Agreement on Fisheries Subsidies. In terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution an international agreement only binds the Republic after it has been approved by resolution in both the National Assembly and the National Council of Provinces.
On the 6th of February 2024, the Portfolio Committee on Trade, Industry and Competition considered the Minister’s request for approval by Parliament of the World Trade Organization Agreement on Fisheries and Subsidies. The purpose of the agreement is to protect fishing stocks in high seas from overfishing and illegal, unreported, and unregulated fishing.
Overfishing and illegal, unreported, and unregulated fishing in high seas negatively impacts the sustainability of marine
resources of coastal states and consequently affects the livelihoods of coastal communities. Overfishing and illegal, unreported, and unregulated fishing in high seas cannot be regulated by coastal states, as this is outside the maritime jurisdiction of these countries. Therefore, an international agreement is required to address this challenge,
This agreement is the first of two phases. In the first phase, protection is offered by prohibiting the use of fishery subsidies to vessels or operators engaged in such fishing activities. The second phase is still under negotiation at the World Trade Organization. It will cover more contentious issues relating to overfishing and overcapacity. This will also need to be rectified once concluded.
There was general agreement by committee members of the need to protect the world's fishing stocks as the deterioration thereof has a negative impact on local fishing communities and their livelihoods. In this regard, members welcomed the efforts of the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition, and of Department Forestry, Fisheries and the Environment to engage local fishing communities while negotiating the agreement.
Ratification to the agreement is expected to provide for better fisheries management in South Africa and globally by requiring greater transparency and improving data collection on the stock status of vulnerable fisheries and on related subsidies.
South Africa is well placed to implement the agreement, given its existing membership to several regional fisheries management bodies and international treaties, and agreements. The committee is of the view that South Africa should show its commitment to curb illegal, unreported, and unregulated fishing by ratifying this agreement. The committee recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution approves the World Trade Organization’s agreement on fisheries subsidies for ratification. I thank you.
Declarations of Vote:
Mr D W MACPHERSON: House Chairperson, and let me recognise the members of the DA, the government in waiting and our Deputy Chief Whip Annelie Lotriet in the House today. Chairperson, the DA welcomes the report to Parliament today, to ratify the World Trade Organization Agreement on Fisheries Subsidies. The agreement relates to overfish stocks and fishing in the
unregulated high seas outside of our waters, as well as providing a dispute settlement mechanism in the World Trade Organization, WTO.
The DA also aligns itself with the global sustainable management of fisheries and fish stocks, as we understand that this is in South Africa's interest particularly for those communities that rely on fishing for their livelihood, many of whom are found in the Western Cape, that continues to lead the score board on creating jobs in South Africa. In fact, two thirds of all jobs are now created in the Western Cape, as advanced by the Quarterly Labour Force Survey released today.
Should this House agree to the agreement, it will contribute not only to globally sustainable fisheries, but also our own very domestic fishing industry. Another important part of this agreement is to fund and provide technical assistance and capacity building to the least developed countries to assist them in implementing this agreement.
It should be noted that this agreement is phase one of the broader agreement which was adopted at the Twelfth Ministerial Conference, MC12 in Geneva two years ago and it is hoped that
the second phase of negotiations towards developing a comprehensive and full agreement on fisheries subsidies will be concluded at the Thirteenth Ministerial Conference, MC13 in Abu Dhabi next week.
The dispute mechanism will allow any member who fails to adhere to the agreement to be brought before the WTO for sanction, and this is important because we know very well that Chinese trawlers from China who fund the ANC are overfishing our seas without consequences and without a word of condemnation from the ANC in government to the detriment of our country and our fishermen.
In closing, a well-managed fishing industry is crucial for South Africa and communities who live off the sea. By dealing with countries that subsidise overfishing off our waters like China, we will be able to promote sustainable fishing and preserve our exclusive economic zones off our coasts. The DA supports this report and the ratification of the agreement. I thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Mika, your hand is up, what is your point of order?
Mr M MAHLAULE: Chair, its’ not a point of order. I wanted to address the speaker on the podium while he was still there. He has never acknowledged the Chief Whip of the opposition party but today he made a special acknowledgement of the Deputy Chief Whip of the opposition party.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you hon Mika.
Sesotho:
Di se di fitile. Nako e se e fitile.
English:
So, it’s something of the past. You may continue hon member.
Ms M S LETLAPE: The incoming government of South Africa, which is the EFF, notes that the first phase of the Fisheries Subsidies Agreement was adopted by consensus at the World Trade Organization's Twelfth Ministerial Conference held in Geneva on the 12th and 17th of June 2022. This was done to set new bindings, multilateral rules to curb harmful subsidies, which are a key factor in the widespread depletion of the world's fish stocks.
In addition, the agreement was supposed to provide a clear mandate to the needs of developing and least developed countries. This agreement prohibits support for illegal and unreported and unregulated fishing, bans support for the fishing over fish stocks and subsidies for fishing on the unregulated high seas.
It is therefore recommended that South Africa ratifies this agreement. This House must note that the global sustainable management of fisheries and fish stocks are in the interest of the world population, including South Africa and their communities, that are dependent on the resource of their livelihood.
Severe impact on coastal states through the depletion of marine resources robs coastal communities of their livelihood and dealing with the illegal, unreported, and unregulated, IUU will benefit South Africa and the African continent’s waters. The implementation of this agreement is supposed to contribute to the global sustainability of fisheries and fish stocks as fishing in the high seas impacts on the fish resource globally and impacts all coastal nations, including ours.
It must be remembered that South Africa has a large population of people who depend directly and indirectly on the seas.
Therefore, this House must remember that illegal, unreported, and unregulated fishing cannot be controlled through national legislation only, as no country has jurisdiction over the high seas. Control can only be achieved through an international instrument and support of nations.
It must be noted that South Africa is a member of International Fisheries Organizations, and the relevant South African laws and policies are already against IUU fishing. The fisheries subsidies agreement phase one, therefore does not bring a new dimension to South Africa's policy position thus South Africa is seeking a balanced outcome under phase two of the negotiations on the overfishing and overcapacity safeguards, the interest, and artisanal and substance fishers.
The agreement should not preserve the status quo and the aim should not be to ensure that large subsidies and distant water fishing nations take more responsibility. The EFF acknowledges that the challenges in fisheries still exist and creating a balance between maximizing the social and economic potential of the fisheries industry, protecting the integrity and
quality of the marine and coastal ecosystems, and addressing transformation in the sector is still a huge factor. The EFF supports with caution. Thank you, Chair.
IsiZulu:
Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Ngibonge ithuba, Sihlalo ... Ziphatheni kahle. [Uhleko.]
English:
The IFP welcomes this agreement as it means our calls for sustainable fishing can no longer be ignored or simply skimmed over. The 2022 retailer and supplier participation scheme report has indicated that South Africans are opting for sustainably sourced seafood because they are becoming more aware of what might happen should the fishing industry continue with irresponsible practices such as overfishing and unsustainable fish farming. Considering that the Fisheries Subsidies Agreement recognizes the needs of developing and least-developed country members and establishes a fund to provide technical assistance and capacity building to help them implement the obligations, we encourage the government to take full advantage of this opportunity to advance and solidify the practice of sustainable fishing in our country.
IsiZulu:
Sihlalo, ngesikhathi uMnyango usemunye oWezolimo, Amahlathi Nezokudoba kwakuyisililo esikhulu sokuthi laba badobi bezikebhe ezinkulu yibona abakhinyabeza ukusizakala kwabafowethu abasacathlayo ekudobeni. Ngakhoke kumele uqiniseke umnyango kuyagadwa ngazogwini ngoba izinkampani noma imikhumbi yamazwe angaphandle ikakhulukazi yase-China iyona eyaye ibeminingi izodoba la egcina ikhinyabeza abafowethu nodadewethu abasizakalayo ekuziphiliseni ngokudoba.
Ugu lolu belunenkinga ikakhulukazi ngaseMpumalanga ko-Richards Bay, miningi imikhumbi yase-China ibigudla njalo yehla iza eMpumalanga Koloni izodoba izinhlanzi okuyizinto ebezikhinyabeza abantu bakithi kuze kuyofika la eNtshonalanga Koloni. Ngakhokhe siyaweseka umnyango ekungeneni kulowo mkhankaso nombhidlango ukuthi kube nezivunyelwano ezihlonishwayo ekubhekeleleni abafowethu nodadewethu abaziphilisa ngokudoba abasafufusayo. Ngiyathokoza.
Mr F J MULDER: Hon Chair, the FF Plus recognise the benefits of the Fisheries Subsidy Agreements in levelling the playing field for South African fishermen who operate sustainably and also to promote the conservation and sustainable management of
fish stocks in South Africa and fish exports. However, there are concerns. The 12-year-old implementation period for developing countries is simply too long and the FF Plus is not convinced that our country has got the capacity to implement this agreement effectively, especially seeing with the chaos that Transnet left our ports. The FF Plus nevertheless support the report before the House today. Thank you, Chair.
Mr W M THRING: Hon House Chairperson, this report was brought before the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition Portfolio Committee for ratification of the completed first phase of the World Trade Organisation Agreement on Fisheries Subsidies as recommended by Cabinet. It sets new binding multilateral rules to curb harmful subsidies, which are a key factor in the widespread depletion of the world’s fish stocks, including South Africa’s.
The agreement recognises and provides for special differential treatments to address the needs of developing and least developed countries, albeit in the form of transitional periods. It also establishes a fund to provide technical assistance and capacity building to help these countries implement the obligations. It prohibits the support of
illegal, unreported and unregulated fishing, bans the support for fishing overfished stocks and subsidies for fishing on the unregulated high seas. While supporting the recommendation, the ACDP is concerned about the implementation of this treaty as 110 ratifications are required for entry into force. Yet to date, only 52 member countries have ratified.
The ACDP is also keenly aware that currently, at the World Health Organisation, there are plans underway to amend the International Health Regulations of 2005, which if passed, will erode the absolute sovereignty of our country, remove our people’s right to participate in health decisions, have implications of adopted, proposed International Health Regulations amendments, will see the World Health Organisation acting ultra vires, outside of its scope, and will cause the World Health Organisation to violate its constitution and processes.
Now, just as the World Trade organisations Fisheries Subsidies Treaty is brought before this Parliament for ratification, the ACDP demands that the International Health Regulations of 2005 be brought before both Houses for debate and ratification, and
that our health outcomes are not determined by unelected World Health Organisation officials. I thank you.
Mr B N HERRON: Hon House Chair, sustainability of our environment is essential if we hope to leave the next generation a world to inhabit. For us to meet a profit margin or harvest the resource faster than our competitor, we must remember that the ocean resources are finite. As GOOD, we welcome the decision to join other emerging nations such as Uruguay and Senegal in signing what is an important step in ensuring the longevity of our oceans.
Worldwide, we’ve seen the dangers of overfishing and the impact that a lack of internationally recognised protection of species can have on the survival of the species. Degradation of marine habitats and the decline in fish toxins is inevitable should this treaty be ignored. The focus on unclaimed territory is another aspect which makes it worthy of support. With these resources being finite, it is imperative that neutral seas be protected under a unified force. This alone will be crucial in maintaining global population control and protection.
While we welcome this international accord, we hope that this action can be taken while acknowledging the need for local reform in both fishing and environmental protection. It is vital that we continue to make international environmental policy decisions while furthering our local policy simultaneously. The allocation of fishing quotas in South Africa needs urgent attention as small scale and generational fishing communities are being squeezed out of their livelihoods.
We ask the new quotas should consider economic ramifications in the areas most affected by these changes. Small scale fisheries have lower quota allocation and less rights.
Following the COVID-19 pandemic, these communities were economically stifled by international trade laws and a smaller market which led to loss of jobs and income. Poaching is a direct offset of poverty. We should be careful not to create an environment where this is the only alternative due to neglect.
International climate solidarity is crucial in keeping this planet sustainable for future generations, and GOOD welcomes this progress. But we caution the departments to be careful
and mindful that while we move forward to an environmentally sustainable future, we cannot afford to leave behind one of the communities that rely on this environment the most. The fishing community needs their livelihoods protected, and they also need support as we transition to the protection of the ocean dumping. Thank you.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon House Chairperson, yes, you’re absolutely correct, the coast of Gaza is 40 kilometres long with some of the largest marine mammals, reptiles and fish, but more importantly, gateway to the Mediterranean. Therefore, you can see why the Zionists are after Gaza. They won’t stop. Now, the question we need to ask ourselves here is, what is this entire agreement all about? Is this agreement all about protecting those big conglomerates Oceana, I & J, Sea Harvest? Remember, the wealth of this country, we said, belongs to the people, but it’s not in control of the people. If you look at what is happening in the Western Cape, particularly with all the small-scales fishers and not only the small-scales fishers, but even those that are a little larger than that, the quotas that are being given to these companies, foreign companies on our shores, our people are going hungry, and they are starving.
Coincidentally, I met with some of them in Lambert’s Bay over the weekend. You will be shocked at the living conditions of these, our very own small-scale fishers because they are being totally ignored. Now, the question is, why are we playing this game of only working with the big people that want to come to this country, these big organisations. Our mining sector is exactly the same. Our health sector is controlled. Our food sector is controlled. Our automotive industry is controlled.
Your fishing industry is controlled.
Therefore, let me tell you what I’ve discovered that these companies are owned by the same people. However, they are getting all the large quotas at the expense of the fishing communities in the Western Cape. Is that fair? What have we done to Hout Bay? I’m told that there were supposed to be some development there to benefit the fishing community, but it has never happened, just standing there redundant. What has happened to that? Is it not time? Is it not time to give back to our very own people? Why? Therefore, I think we need to get the department to look very seriously into this. The time has come to reclaim our wealth in this country and let our people benefit from it. Right now, this, as far as I’m concerned, is just going to protect those large-scale fishing companies.
It’s not going to be in the interest of our small-scale fishing. Therefore, we need to protect these people. This is what we need to do. Thank you very much.
Ms R M MOATSHE: Thobela [Good afternoon], hon members. The struggle for a better life is a struggle that has been embedded in ANC policy since its establishment, which aims to ensure that humanity develops a harmonious sustainable relationship with nature. This means that the struggle ensures sustainability is global. We are enjoined by section 24 of South African Constitution to ensure that the environment is protected for the benefit of present and future generation by, among other things, securing ecological sustainable development and use natural resources while promoting justifiable economic and social development.
It is perhaps important to highlight why it is so important for Parliament to ratify this agreement. This agreement is not merely a piece of paper, it is a crucial instrument of safeguarding the sustainability of our ocean and the prosperity of our fishing communities. Illegal, unregulated and unprotected fishing pose a grave threat to the health of our marine ecosystems and the livelihoods of millions of
fishermen and women worldwide. By circumventing regulations and exploiting vulnerable stocks, illegal, unregulated and unreported fishing undermines conservation efforts, destabilised fish population and deprives the legitimate fishermen of the rightful catch.
It is a problem that knows no borders, requiring co-ordinated action at the international level to effectively combat. The World Trade Organisation Agreement on Fisheries Subsidies provide a framework for such co-ordinated action by prohibiting subsidies that directly contribute to illegal an unregulated, unreported fishing. The agreement strikes at the heart of illicit practice, depriving it of the financial support it relies upon the operate. Additionally, by banning subsidies for fishing on over fish stocks and the unregulated
... [Inaudible.] ... The agreement promotes responsible stewardship of our oceans, ensuring that fish stocks are harvested, sustainable and equitable for South Africa.
A nation with a rich maritime heritage and a thriving fishing industry ratifying this agreement is not just a matter of compliance. It is a statement of commitment to the principle and objects set out in the Medium-Term Strategic Framework and
the National Development Plan, which include commitments to sustain development and responsible governance. By joining the ranks of nation that have already ratified the agreement, South African can take a leading role in the global of effort to combat illegal, unregulated, unreported fishing and promote the sustainable management of our ocean.
It is important to note that the benefit of ratification extends beyond the sphere of environmental conservation. By aligning our fisheries policies with international standard, we enhance the competitiveness of our fishing industry in the global marketplace, opening up new opportunities for trade and investment. Moreover, by demonstrating our commitment to responsible fishing practice we strengthen our position as trusted partner in the international community, paving the way for great co-operative and collaboration on wide range of issues. The agreement as a tool for better fisheries management will strengthen South Africa and global sustainable fisheries management system through transparency requirement and improving data collection on the stock status of vulnerable fisheries and all related subsidies. Vulnerable groups such as coastal communities and small-scale fishers rely heavily on fish as protein source.
South Africa ratification oil of the first phase of the World Trade Organisation Fisheries Subsidies Agreement provides a basic to contribute towards the livelihood of this community. South Africa will need to safeguard the interests of the vulnerable groups. In practical terms, what does it mean for South Africa and its ocean economy? Simply put, it offers a lifeline for the preservation of our marine resource and the sustainability of our fishing sector by capping excessive subsides that fuel over capacity and illegal fishing practice. The World Trade Organisation empowers our government to implement policies that promote responsible fishing practice and safeguard our livelihood of our fishermen.
The ANC-led government has clearly demonstrated commitment towards utilising the ocean economy as a critical part of ensuring inclusive growth and creating opportunities for small-scale farmers. In recognising the importance of the inclusive growth, the government has implemented various initiatives to empower small-scale fishermen and women, providing them with the resource and the support they need to thrive in a competitive market through targeted interventions and capacity building programmes. The ANC-led government has ensured that the communities are not left behind but are in
state active participants in the sustainable development of our ocean economy.
In giving practical expression in the values enshrined in our Constitution, it is incumbent on us to protect future generation and create a better life not only for us and working-class vulnerable group, but for generation to come.
The ANC supports the ratification of the agreement ... [Time expired.]
An HON MEMBER: The members of the ANC are not respecting the House Chairperson.
An HON MEMBER: You are out of order yourself.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Mjobo, please don’t do that. Are there any objections to the approval of the World Trade Organisation Fisheries Subsidies Agreement as it appears on the Order Paper? No objections, agreed to.
Hon members, there are two requests that I would like to make. Actually, this is part of reminders that members are not allowed to take photos while in the House. Therefore, please,
let’s not do that. Well, I’m not sure about selfies, but members are not allowed to take photos. Hon members, the other reminder ... [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: House Chair, can I take a photo of the Chief Whip of the ANC?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): ... the other reminder ... order! The other reminder is that when we come to the last item, which is adjournment, a request remains to the hon members to stand and wait for the Chair and the males to leave the Chamber. Let us please do that, and that concludes the business for the day and the House is adjourned.
World Trade Organisation (WTO) Fisheries Subsidies Agreement approved.
The House adjourned at 18:45.