Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard- Vote 10
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 11 May 2016
Summary
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Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
WEDNESDAY, 11 MAY 2016
PROCEEDING OF THE EXTENDED PUBLIC COMMITTEE – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Members of the Extended Public Committee met in the Old Assembly Chamber at 10:02.
The House Chairperson Ms M G Boroto took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate on Vote No 10 – Public Service and Administration:
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Deputy Minister of Public Service and Administration, Ms Ayanda Dlodlo, the hon chairperson of the portfolio committee who is just arriving, chairperson of the Remuneration Review Commission, Justice Mthiyane, chairperson of the Public Service Commission, Adv Richard Sizani, chairperson of Government Employees Medical Scheme, Gems, Mr Rikhotso, Directors-General and Heads of Microsoft Products and Services Agreements, MPSA, entities, hon members, distinguished guests, fellow South Africans, thank you very much for affording us this opportunity to address the House on the consideration of the Budget Vote for the Ministry of Public Service and Administration.
At the outset I wish to join my colleagues in condemning the violence that we have seen in the Vuwani District in Limpopo, where more than 20 schools have been torched. We are obviously concerned as Public Service Administration about that.
The year 2016 marks 20 years since the first democratic government established the Department of Public Service and Administration to lead the transformation of the public service and align our public service with our new constitutional democracy.
As you will all recall, the democratic government led by the ANC inherited a fragmented structure of public service that was made of, among others, homelands and self-governing states. I happened to be one of the first young premiers who had to amalgamate about four of those to create a province called Limpopo.
The establishment of the Department of Public Service and Administration was to ensure that we transform the public service, and revamp human resource policies and regulations governing the public service, information technology management and policies relating to service delivery.
Ladies and gentlemen, it is my pleasure to inform the House that on
13 November 2015, the Department of Public Service and Administration held the third successful National Batho Pele Excellence Awards. The awards served to recognise public servants who are selfless, dedicated, committed and who go the extra mile in servicing our citizens. The purpose of the awards is to entrench the transformation and professionalisation of the public service.
In our midst today, we have the 2015 Best Frontline Service Delivery Employee Award winner from the SA Police Service in the Free State province, Sergeant Mpho Precia Mgogodlana. I wish to recognise her specifially. [Applause.] Her award was for the dedication she demonstrated to live and abide by the Batho Pele Principles and the Value Statement thereof namely, we belong, we care, we serve.
In 2014 the Mangaung Police Station experienced a high rate of crime in sector 4 which consists of industrial and residential areas.
Sergeant Mgogodlana volunteered to make police services visible in these areas. She profiled a database of 200 firms, established a forum for business people, a neighborhood watch and instituted frequent police patrols which ultimately reduced the high rate of house burglaries in the vicinity.
She utilised the departmental efficiency index as a general police monitoring tool for complaint handling. She encouraged the community during sector meetings to lodge complaints if they were not happy with the services they received. This is the ideal public servant the people of South Africa look up to. Please join me as you have done earlier on in congratulating her. [Applause.]
As government, we are not only prioritising service delivery to our citizens but we equally care about the well-being of the public servants themselves, because without healthy and active public servants, our service delivery goals cannot be achieved.
I just want to deviate from my written speech, and on behalf of government apologies to one of our employees who is wheelchair bound. The case came to my attention recently; she fell from a chair whilst on duty and the department has done nothing to assist her.
So, she has run out of medical aid and so on, and I want to really apologise.
As a caring employer, government would like to see all public servants owning a house. Government in this regard is implementing the Government Employee Housing Scheme to assist employees, especially lower income public servants, to access home loans and other finance from lenders who participate in the scheme. The implementation of the Government Employees Housing Scheme commenced on 27 May 2015 following the signing of the Public Service Coordinating Bargaining Council Resolution 7 of 2015.
To date, a project management office has been established in the Department of Public Service and Administration and is responsible for the operation of the scheme. Also, a dedicated call centre has been set up to support employees who wish to enroll with the scheme. The Scheme will improve the socioeconomic conditions of public service employees by supporting, educating and advising them on housing options and opportunities, and increasing their home- ownership, thus reducing asset poverty.
I am pleased to announce today that the enrolment of the public servants into the scheme has already commenced, and that road shows are now being conducted in all provinces to ensure that employees receive as much information as possible about the scheme.
In 2006 our government established the Government Employees Medical Scheme. The scheme continues to make a difference to our people at large. In the last years the scheme has been in existence, it has been a pioneer in the medical industry, garnering impressive acclaim and recognition. As the second largest medical scheme in South Africa, Gems remains the fastest growing medical scheme with more than 1,7 million lives covered. As at the end of March 2016, the scheme covered the numbers that I have mentioned and beneficiaries who are more than a million, almost 2 million.
In terms of accessibility, Gems has made considerable inroads in covering lower level employees, with 44,93% of the levels 1 to 5 employees now covered by the Gems. Approximately R1 in every R5 spent on private healthcare is spent by Gems, and approximately R1 out of every R10 spent on healthcare - private and public - in South Africa is spent by this scheme. We are moving towards an integrated public administration.
After extensive consultations, the Public Administration Management Act was signed into law by the President in December 2014. This was a complex process which ran over a number of years, but a very necessary step in our quest towards ensuring a seamless service delivery by all spheres of government within the values of public administration enshrined in our Constitution.
During this last financial year, we focused on the development of the first set of regulations to give effect to certain provisions in the Act. As a start, we prioritised the development of regulations dealing with the important matter of prohibiting public servants from doing business with the state. I am pleased to report that we have completed these draft regulations and that we will soon be releasing them for public comment.
As the public service we need to start doing more with less, because taxpayers want to see more efficiency and effectiveness in public service delivery. We are cognisant that productivity in our public sector is just as important to the economic performance of the country. During this financial year, we will address gaps that exist in our performance measurement instruments.
In this regard, amendments to the Public Service Regulations dealing with performance management in the public service were published for comment during the 2015-16 financial year. These Regulations will be promulgated during this financial year and departments will then be required to amend their policies and systems for implementation during the 2017-18 financial year.
To emphasise the contribution of public sector productivity to the overall economic performance of South Africa, the Department of Public Service and Administration has also developed a public sector productivity measurement instrument through an extensive consultative process with stakeholders in and outside the government. Amongst the many benefits of this measurement instrument is that it strengthens the service delivery value chain by identifying possible blockages in the service delivery operations within departments.
To date, we have tested this measurement instrument in the provincial Department of Basic Education in the Mpumalanga province, health department in the North West province, and the Department of Co-operative Governance, Human Settlements and Traditional Affairs in the Limpopo province. The findings emanating from these pilot studies have enabled us to engage these departments on ways to further improve on their current levels of productivity.
In 2014-15, the Medium-Term Strategic Framework started with specific initiatives to explore ways to improve service delivery. This led to, amongst others, the development of Operations Management Framework and Methodology. In the main the framework and methodology links departmental strategic plans with their operations through a service delivery model, the design of the operations through mapping the necessary delivery processes, developing standard operating procedures and service standards. Focus is also placed on day-to-day operations, planning and control, and how to analyse and improve operations on an ongoing basis.
Since the development of the framework and methodology, the Department of Public Service and Administration has engaged in an advocacy programme as well as building capacity in selected departments to enable implementation of the framework. Those departments are: Education, Health and Human Settlements, Social Development, and Transport in both national and provincial spheres, as well as the national Departments of Labour, Minerals, Energy and Trade and Industry.
In the 2016-17 financial year we will continue to assist selected departments to implement the Operations Management Framework and Methodology in order to improve systems and processes which ultimately lead to continuous, improved service delivery to the citizens.
Perhaps some might ask why we seem to be focusing a lot on these methodologies and tools. The transformation of public service delivery as required by the Batho Pele principles cannot simply be achieved through promotional and advocacy work on these principles. In fact as we get proper frontline services they have got to be supported by back-office processes that produce results. Because it is not enough to have smiling faces at the desk yet outcomes are very poor.
To address issues related to the abuse and management of incapacity leave and ill-health retirement benefits the Policy and Procedure of Incapacity Leave and Ill-Health Retirement, PILIR, was developed.
The PILIR generally assists departments in the professional investigation and management of incapacity leave and ill-health retirement applications. It also assists departments in the application of the current sick leave dispensation and the management and investigation of potential ill-health retirements.
This model has evolved over several years from its inception during the pilot study. Following its implementation and based on feedback received from a range of key stakeholders as well as our own observations, we decided to undertake a review of the PILIR to validate the model and its effectiveness. Based on the findings and recommendations of the review report, the PILIR model will be adapted accordingly.
The National Development Plan, under the topic Building a Capable and Developmental State, observed the importance of delegation and proposed that greater and more consistent delegations supported by appropriate systems of support and oversight, be developed and staff at all levels have the authority, competency and support they need to do their jobs.
To advance the proposals in the NDP, Cabinet approved the Principles of Public Administration and Financial Delegations and minimum levels of delegations in terms of the Public Service Act in August 2013. Also, the Minister for Public Service and Administration issued a Directive on Public Administration and Management Delegations in August 2014. The directive on delegations applies to all national and provincial departments and government components listed in the schedules of the said Act.
In order to ensure compliance, the DPSA conducted 33 workshops with national and provincial departments to support the implementation of the standardised delegation principles and templates set out in the directives on delegations.
As a public service, our aim is to promote the minimum levels of delegations, as approved by Cabinet, from the executive authorities to heads of department and other senior officials so as to promote efficient and effective delegations and produce a more stable political administrative interface.
During 2016-17 financial year, we will focus on continuous monitoring and annual evaluation of the status of compliance with the directive on delegations. The Department of Public Service Administration is in the process of compiling a report on compliance with the directive on delegations as at 31 March 2016 which should be concluded by 31 May 2016. The report will include recommendations for corrective measures that may be taken which may include aspects in respect of failure to comply with directives as set out in section 16A of the Public Service Act.
The Vote we are presenting today also includes the Public Service Commission, PSC. This commission, the PSC, is an independent oversight institution established in terms of chapter 10 of the Constitution. The commission is addressing some of the key issues raised in the NDP such as building a capable, career-oriented and professional public service.
In this regard, on 23 March 2016, the PSC jointly with the University of South Africa hosted a very successful inaugural public lecture entitled Building a capable, career-oriented and professional Public Service for a developmental state as stated in the National Development Plan Vision 2030.
As Minister for Public Service and Administration, I had the honour of delivering the keynote address at that event which we used as an opportunity to highlight to a wider audience of participants the values and principles governing public service administration, as contained in section 195 of the Constitution
Through its oversight reports, the PSC has continued to advise the Executive as well as Parliament on areas of progress and areas that undermine the ability of the state to deliver. In order to address the professionalisation of the public service, and in response to some of the PSC‘s findings, we have issued Ministerial directives on competency assessment and on compulsory capacity development, mandatory training days and minimum entry requirements for the senior management service.
The directive, among others, prescribes minimum entry requirements, such as minimum years of experience. Following input from the PSC and other stakeholders, the Minister has agreed to amend the entry requirements for heads of department or directors-general from 8 to 10 years of experience at a senior managerial level - 5 years of which must be with any organ of state as defined in the Constitution.
The Ministry for Public Service and Administration will continue to support the commission to ensure that it carries out its mandate as an oversight body. In this regard, we will work the commission as it proceeds with the Public Service Commission Amendment Bill.
The Bill mainly seeks to streamline the administrative processes for the appointment of an acting chairperson and how the term of office of a commissioner should be renewed to the attention of the Minister. Parliament is processing that Public Service Commission Amendment Bill even as we speak. Of course there are some challenges in this regard.
Within the current environment, the PSC has to think creatively on how it can do more with less. I am please to say we have appointed in past few weeks the permanent head-administrative of the Public Service Commission.
In conclusion, it is an open secret that the current economic conditions have an impact not only in South Africa but across the world. However, despite limited resources, the Public Service, will not abandon our service delivery commitments. As the Minister of Finance indicated during the Budget speech in February this, it is time to tighten the belt and work within the means at our disposal.
As the public service and administration we will be co-operating fully with the Department of Finance in ensuring that the public service produces and delivers services with minimum costs to the national Purse.
We are dedicated to what we do and will seek to do more with the less. Working with our citizens and government departments, we will create a better life for all because together, we are prepared to move South Africa forward.
This is our commitment as a public service. We belong to our people, we care about our people, we serve our people. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, before I call the next speaker I just want to welcome our guests in the gallery, and to give them the bad news that the Rules of this House do not allow them to participate in the proceedings by means of clapping hands and all that. I am very sorry but these are the Rules.
EXPIRY OF SUSPENSION OF EFF MEMBERS
(Announcement)
Hon members, I would like to announce that the withdrawal of the EFF from the House has come to an end, and today some members of the EFF are allowed to be in the precincts and the Chamber in order to participate in the debate.
Ms B P MABE: Hon Chairperson, Minister for Department of Public Service and Administration, the hon Advocate Ngoako Ramatlhodi,
Deputy Minister, hon Ayanda Dlodlo. Members of Parliament, Chairperson of Public Service Commission and all commissioners present, the Director-General, DG for Centre for Public Service Innovation, CPSI, the DG for School of Government, the DG, Mr Diphofa, ladies and gentlemen, good morning. We have gathered here during an important time in the political calendar, not only for our country but for the entire African continent.
In May 1963, the then Organisation of African Unity, OAU which later became the African Union, AU was formed. Its main objective was to, amongst others, defend the interests of Africa and to promote democratic principles. The ANC is still alive to these objectives.
As Africans of different shades, we ought to take a moment and celebrate the 53rd anniversary achievements of this giant organisation. Certainly, despite challenges we are faced with, Africa is rising for unity and prosperity. Rise Africa, rise!
Let me cite the words by the Chairperson of the African Union Commission, Dr Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma when she said:
By adopting Agenda 2063, we have boldly taken the path to reclaim our past, and claim our future. If your dreams don‘t scare you, they are not big enough. We choose peace, unity and prosperity.
Hon Chairperson, the Department of Public Service and Administration is an engine of the public service that ensures the proper
functioning of all government departments within the confines of the law and ensure delivery of services to the people of this beloved country. We need to remind ourselves where this country is coming from, appreciate the current situation, and focus on the future development for achieving a better life for all.
In 1993, an interim Constitution of the Republic of SA was established, which indicates that ?there shall be a public service for the Republic, structured in terms of law to provide effective public administration?. On the 08 May 1996, Chapter 10 of the Constitution envisaged the kind of the public administration we aspired for. The public service that the Constitution envisioned is the one governed and guided by basic values and principles of the public administration.
Hon Chairperson, on the 10 May 1994, South Africans celebrated the inauguration of the first black President of the democratic country. Since 1994, our people started to be closer with government, legislatures and participate openly in the development affecting their lives. Before the dawn of the democracy, black people were not allowed to participate in any legislative forms or policies of government. The ANC-led government has corrected such wrong practice, and now we talk about inclusive government.
This year we celebrate the 22nd anniversary of our hard-earned democracy. To date, the ANC-led government has made remarkable
strides in our quest to turn around the fortunes of our people. Hopes and aspirations for a better life will be realised as our government delivers on its mandate. We also remain confident that there is no other government that can outperform the ANC-led government. [Applause.]
The ANC-led government administration has delivered services to the millions of South Africans. We cannot expect this government to address triple challenges in 22 years. However, we must acknowledge that more has been done under these difficult circumstances.
The ANC led government tabled a pro-poor budget in particular, focusing on the poorest of the poor and how to address the triple challenge. Implementation of the budget is key to maximising benefit to the poor. The ANC-led government has in the past years restructured the administration and introduced various administrative procedures and measures to strengthen the delivery capacity of the state. In particular, the delivery arm had been strengthened to ensure that the poor‘s reality changes for the better.
An important part of implementation of the budget is to include the community during the various phases of delivery. Community centredness is a key pillar of our Constitution and in this regard, all state departments during implementation of the budget must consult with the community. The budget approved by Parliament is a
people‘s budget and therefore, during implementation it must involve the community.
Today, more people are way far better and they are enjoying the fruits of democracy. Currently, the South African public service has employed 1 326 000 people. It is befitting that in 22 years of our democracy we give thanks for their support, hard work, dedication and for serving their country patriotically and with pride. You have made it possible for the ANC-led government to change the lives of our people for the better.
Hon chair, I am talking about an administration which made it possible: to build more than 4,3 million houses translating into homes for about 12,5 million South Africans; that access to basic sanitation services increased from 62,3% in 2002 to 79,5% in 2014; that tarred roads are maintained and gravel roads are graded; that the electrification of households increased from 69,7% in 2001 to 86% in 2014; and that between 2001 and 2014 the percentage of households with access to clean piped water increased from 61,3% to 90%.
Through your support government has made tremendous strides in the provision of basic services in all walks of life and there is no doubt about it. We want to say, thank you! Thank you for making Mzansi a better place than it was before 1994! Thank you for
enabling the government to create better opportunities for everyone in the country.
Gogo, mkhulu, lusha, woza sishoda ngawe, buyela ekhaya, uKhongolose uyakudinga. [Ihlombe.] [Grandmother, grandfather, youth, come, we are short of you, come back home, the ANC needs you. [Applause.]]
Hon Chairperson, public service and administration derives its mandate from section 195 of the Constitution ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (M G Boroto): Order, hon members!
Ms B P MABE: ... which sets out the basic values and principles of the public administration. In this regard, the Department of Public Service and Administration is required to implement and co-ordinate interventions aimed at achieving an efficient, effective and development-oriented public service. Our role, as the committee, is to conduct effective oversight over the Ministry of the Department of Public Service and Administration and its entities in executing their mandate as per the Constitution and the National Development Plan.
In line with section 195 of the Constitution, the NDP states that government‘s ability to achieve its developmental objectives requires an effective public service. The NDP highlights the need for well-run and effectively co-ordinated state institutions with
skilled public servants who are committed to the public good and capable of delivering consistently high-quality services, while prioritising the nation‘s development objectives. The delivery agreement Outcome 12 ... [Interjections.]
Mr N PAULSEN: Hon Chairperson, the hon members – I think they are honourable – are showing me vulgar things over there. It is very disgusting!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (M G Boroto): What is it? Hon members, we are in the House and we know the Rules concerning the phones in the House. Please continue, hon member.
Ms B P MABE: ... remains a strategic guide in the implementation of the programme of action for government in ensuring access to quality services, human resource management and development, tackling of corruption and citizen participation.
Hon Chairperson, having given this perspective, steps are needed to strengthen skills, enhance morale and quality of services, enforce accountability, and build culture of patriotism in the public service. Certainly, what we need in public service are public servants who are committed to serve and value the public service as the employer of their choice. The department has made strides in executing their constitutional mandate and in striving towards achieving the objectives of the National Development Plan.
The Public Administration Management Act is one example of pieces of legislations aimed towards realising the public service which is efficient, effective and development-oriented. The amendments on the Public Service Regulations are some of the steps aimed at professionalising the public service.
The committee supports the department in amending the regulations to respond to the current challenges and future developments in the public service. We appeal to the Minister that all amendments have to be aligned or integrated with other laws regulating the essential services. Development of policy framework for prohibiting public servants in doing business with the state is welcomed. [Applause.] This will minimise unethical conducts in the public service.
The committee notes efforts to fight corruption and awaits with anticipation the implementation of the policy framework which will strengthen the fight against corruption and promote good governance in the public sector. This will enable us to guard against malpractices by government officials.
We have reliably learned that Paul Hattingh, an official in the DA administration, is facing charges of corruption and fraud, a tender scandal in a DA-led municipality. He stands accused of using his position in the City of Cape Town municipality to cash in on cleaning product contracts worth R70 million ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members!
Ms B P MABE: ... sharing the spoils with his wife and a business partner whom, the police say, it is his girlfriend. We have learned that he supplied the city with everything from feather dusters to cockroach spray, furniture polish, refuse bags, shoe polish and foot deodoriser ... [Interjections.] ... and that his wife‘s company – listen to this - was paid R11,7 million from 2008 to 2012 for items such as disinfectant, liquid hand soap and rat poison. They bought hamburgers to the value of R8 208 ... [Interjections.] ... and further used public funds ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members!
Ms B P MABE: ... to buy Bar One chocolates to the value of R6 840. There is no holly cow!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members! May I hear the point of order from hon Paulsen? What is your point of order?
Mr N PAULSEN: Chairperson, will hon Mabe take a question?
Ms B P MABE: Yes, Chairperson, I?ll take a question?
Mr N PAULSEN: Hon Mabe, when you mentioned elected representatives that do business with the state, why did you omit your own regional chairperson here in the City of Cape Town who is a councillor that does business with the City of Cape Town? Xolani Sotashe does business
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, you asked the question. Can you give the chance to respond?
Ms B P MABE: I deliberately let that for stupid people like you come and raise it here. I don‘t have time for that.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Mabe, can you take your seat? [Interjections.]
Mr N PAULSEN: I want her to withdraw that!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Oh no, wait! [Interjections.]
Mr N PAULSEN: ... [Inaudible.] ... the whole bunch of them put on that side. The whole bunch of them, including you!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Paulsen ...
Ms B P MABE: I am not scared of you, Paulsen!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Can I deal with what I have heard? Order, hon members!
Ms B P MABE: Hon Paulsen must know that ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): order, hon members! Hon Mabe, from the podium in the House, you have used an unparliamentary word towards a member of the House. Will you please withdraw?
Ms B P MABE: Chair, I withdraw.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you.
Ms B P MABE: However, hon Paulsen must know that we are not threatened by him and we are not scared of him. He can raise any question anywhere but they are not going to dictate to us what and what not to say.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members! Continue hon Mabe.
Ms B P MABE: I have left out important issues now because of you.
We call on the Department of Public Service and Administration to ensure that government departments allocate a certain percentage of
their total budget on innovation projects and promote co-partnership with the Centre for Public Service Innovation.
In this financial year, the commission will be rolling out investigations into the management of Policy on Incapacity Leave and ill-Health Retirement in the Western Cape province. We appeal to the Public Service Commission to roll out the same investigation in all nine provinces.
Thank you for affording me an opportunity to bear testimony on the ability of government to deliver on its promises and by confining itself within the law and ensuring service delivery to our beloved country.
The ANC supports this Budget Vote 10. [Applause.]
Ms A T LOVEMORE: Madam Chairperson, in his state of the nation address in February 2014, the President said, ?The fight against corruption must be intensified?.
In June 2014, he proudly stated:
The Anti-Corruption Task Team ...and the Hawks have made notable progress in our quest to combat corruption...This work will continue in the next five years.
By 2016, the word ?corruption? had disappeared from the President‘s state of the nation address. It wasn‘t mentioned, despite corruption being a scourge, and a priority one at that.
In January 2015, Anwa Dramat — then head of the Hawks, and chairperson of the nation‘s Anti-Corruption Task Team — was purged, rendering that task team rudderless and ineffective. It is now dead
— despite the President‘s boast that it was making ?notable progress? and would operate for at least the next five years.
Over the last 15 years, we have had, in addition to the Anti- Corruption Task Team, various national anti-corruption summits, a national anti-corruption programme, an anti-corruption co-ordinating committee; the national integrity system, the anti-corruption working group, and a special anti-corruption unit.
They are all dead.
But, never fear! We currently have the national anti-corruption hotline, the anti-corruption inter-ministerial committee, and the national anti-corruption forum.
So how close does this bring us to a public service that ensures that taxpayers‘ money does not make its way into the coffers of criminals?
The National Anti-Corruption Forum has held conferences at which, I am told, resolutions were adopted leading to an anti-corruption programme. So, no real crime fighting going on there.
The Public Service Commission runs the National Anti-Corruption Hotline. The commission refers cases to relevant departments for investigation — approximately 2 000 cases a year. The commission reports that, sadly, two thirds of such referred cases are never resolved, and probably never investigated at all. So, only one third of corruption cases emanating from the hotline are investigated.
According to police statistics, at most only one third of public servants found guilty of corruption internally are ever reported to the police.
Those statistics do not speak of a high level of public sector commitment to rooting out corruption, do they? But maybe I‘m missing something.
Because, ladies and gentlemen, in 2002, Cabinet decreed that every department must have a MACC — minimum anti-corruption capacity. The Department of Public Service and Administration was tasked with supporting departments to develop their MACC.
But when the Public Service Commission examined the level of investigation of corruption cases in 2015, it found that most departments still, 13 years later, do not have MACC, minimum anti-
corruption capacity. Why not, when a commitment was made by the Department of Public Service and Administration in response to a Cabinet directive? Why has no head rolled? Why has no-one been held accountable for this and so many other failures in the fight against corruption?
But, along comes another initiative. The Public Administration Management Act — to be implemented soon — introduces a Public Administration Ethics, Integrity and Disciplinary Technical Assistance Unit.
In addition, the Public Service Integrity Management Framework is ready for roll-out to a department near you. The framework requires every department to have a dedicated ethics officer appointed by the relevant Minister. So, Minister Zwane, for example, will be the person responsible for ensuring ethical conduct within the Department of Mineral Resources, and Minister Dlamini will appoint the ethics officer in the Department of Social Development.
Of course, there are certain things that are not left up to initiative, that departments are required to do by law. All members of the senior management service must submit a disclosure of their financial interests every year. Only 22 of the 44 national departments submitted on time last year. The Western Cape has a 100% compliance record.
There are certain departments that have been classified as serial offenders, making a habit, year after year, of allowing senior management members to get away with not disclosing their financial interests.
The very department responsible directly, by law, for formulating the National Anti-Corruption Strategy — the Department of Public Service and Administration — is a serial offender, not submitting financial disclosure forms. The very entity responsible for training ethics officers and instilling a culture of integrity — the National School of Government — is a serial offender, not submitting financial disclosure forms.
The track record is not a good one.
The hon Minister, Adv Ramathlodi, has his duties outlined for him in the Public Service Act. Inter alia,
The Minister is responsible for establishing norms and standards relating to integrity, ethics, conduct and anti-corruption in the public service.
Fighting corruption is in his job description. He did not mention it however, in his speech this morning.
I recently asked the Minister what the financial loss to the public sector, due specifically to corruption, has been over the past years. The Minister provided a rather startling response. He said that there is currently no measure applied in the public sector to estimate financial losses as a result of corruption.
Really? The Constitution of our country demands a public service which a high standard of professional ethics must be promoted and maintained.
I challenge you, Minister, to prove us wrong in our doubt. I challenge you to measure and manage progress, and to take action when your department simply does not deliver on its anti-corruption mandate.
Let heads roll if they must. But show South Africa that you mean business. You are ethically, legally and constitutionally obliged to do so. [Applause.]
Mr N PAULSEN: Chairperson, regardless of which department, province or municipality one looks at, it is clear that the ANC government is failing to deliver basic services. [Interjections.]
Twenty years into democracy, people in Diepsloot still do not have water. People in Alexander still do not have decent housing. People in KwaMashu still do not have reliable infrastructure for economic
development. People in Inanda still do not have roads and many other basic services.
All of this is so because the public service is poorly conceptualised and lacks the capacity to see to it that services are delivered to the people of South Africa. [Interjections.]
It is very strange that the Minister cannot even ensure that his own employees have access to housing. [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members!
Mr N PAULSEN: Where things do not add up, today we have more departments, more senior officials in these departments, and provincial and local governments on the brink of collapse while the standard of service remains poor.
Minister, you cannot claim to be building public service capacity. How exactly, because all that government does is to sign agreements between taxpayers and service providers, consultants and contractors? There is no capacity within the public service.
Ms B P MABE: Chair, I rise on a point of order.
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Yes, hon Mabe?
Ms B P MABE: Chair, is it parliamentary for a member to come and speak common sense here without having ...
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, that is not a point of order.
Mr N PAULSEN: ?Common sense.? Yes, she‘s right. It is common sense!
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Please continue, hon Paulsen.
Mr N PAULSEN: Thank you, hon Mabe. You are right, it is common sense!
The EFF is the only political party since 1994 that has put forward a decisive and superior option towards building state capacity. The model of outsourcing has been tried and has failed. It is time that the South African government abolishes the corrupt tender system and starts building state capacity.
We will illustrate through people‘s municipalities by abolishing tenders and by building capacity that we are able to deliver quality services to all. An EFF people‘s municipality will abolish the use of consultants to perform basic functions of a municipality. An EFF people‘s municipality will put an end to the practice of cadre deployment and all municipal employees will be employed on the basis of their qualifications and suitability to the job. [Interjections.]
Not these cadres that you employ that are useless and cannot deliver services. That is why this country is burning, because you are incapable of delivering services to those people. [Interjections.] An EFF people‘s municipality will insource all workers that perform municipality work and functions. [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members!
Mr N PAULSEN: We will showcase what is to be done and how to build capable and affordable public services.
It is clear that there is a lot of confusion and misunderstanding on what must be done to build public service capacity. Hence we have department duplications. This department has a programme solely dedicated to supporting, monitoring and planning of service delivery. But we also have another department called planning, monitoring and evaluation.
The so-called National School of Government is ill-conceived, unnecessary and should never have been created. It was just there as a place for cadres to be deployed to, right Minister?
It is now clear that money was allocated without clarity on what taxpayers‘ money will be used for. What is unfortunate is that such a crucial department has been reduced to a dumping ground where unwanted Ministers are disposed of.
The current Minister is an example. He did not want to use state resources to buy a mine for Jacob Zuma and the Guptas so he was moved here.
Mr M A DIRKS: Chairperson, on a point of order.
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Paulsen ...
Mr N PAULSEN: The EFF rejects the Budget Vote for this department. Thank you very much, Chairperson.
Mr M A DIRKS: It‘s a point of order, Chair. No! Let him stand there! Let him stand there!
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No, don‘t say it! I will tell him! Hon Paulsen, there is a point of order. Would you mind ...
Mr M A DIRKS: Hon Chair, there is no ?Jacob Zuma? in this House. There is an hon Jacob Zuma.
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Paulsen, we all know that we have to refer to the President as the hon President, hon member, or Mr Zuma. Please refrain from that. Continue. Thank you.
Mr N PAULSEN: Okay. Mr Jacob Zuma, president of the ANC. [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members! Hon members, let me remind you that the President of this country is the President by virtue of having been elected so. He was voted for by Parliament. As such, being parliamentarians who voted the President into office, we have to respect the President. Thank you. [Interjections.] Yes, hon Waters?
Mr M WATERS: Chairperson, may I address you?
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Yes, hon Waters.
Mr M WATERS: I did not want to interrupt the hon Paulsen, but when he started his speech, the hon Mabe said he was lying, he‘s a liar. That is unparliamentary, and the hon Mabe should withdraw that statement.
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Are you saying she said it from the podium?
Mr M WATERS: No, she said it from her seat. I heard it.
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Mabe, did you say that?
Ms B P MABE: No Chair, I didn‘t say that. [Interjections.] This Waters is very ... [Inaudible.]
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Mabe, I asked you a question and you responded. Please take your seat. [Interjections.] Hon members, at this stage, I am unable to verify, but an investigation will be done. Thank you.
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Chairperson and hon Minister I really want to echo your sentiments about what is going on in Vuwani. It cannot be proper that whatever grievance that citizens may have, their response is violence and the destruction of property. Burning a school is burning the future. Therefore, let us encourage constructive engagements between all the affected parties for us to arrive at a logical and working conclusion which is not going to cause further problems for South Africans.
When I left high school in 2005, my school principal gave us the message and he said, don‘t let things replace people. Public service in my view should emulate that message everyday that in the final analysis the people come first. Whatever challenges you may be having at home, whatever pressures you may be having at work but when a client, a community member or a citizen is seating in front of you put all that aside to ensure that him or her receives maximum assistance because that is what is required of us to ensure that the state machinery works.
Therefore, hon Minister, we must go back to basics. Workers must be at work on time doing what they were supposed to be doing and within
the parameters of the law for them and for them to adhere to the law. We want to congratulate the Public Service Commission, for the good work that it has been doing particularly around the areas of financial management and accountability, given the fact that recently there has been a collaboration and partnership between the Public Service Commission and the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa, to ensure that government departments, the workers and employees adhere to the due processes of Public Finance Management Act, PFMA, Managed Funds Association, MFA, and National Treasury Regulations so that we can take one step at a time at arriving at audit outcomes which are responsive to the collective needs of the people of South Africa and service delivery.
Hon Minister, let us go back to basics again, let us address things practically. The high levels of absenteeism in the public service particularly on Mondays and Fridays must be an issue of concern because that impacts negatively on the productivity of the economy which is not doing very well. We need every worker at work on time for the full duration of the week. It is particularly sick leave which is being abused at the hands of corrupt doctors. This is something that we must look at. We cannot allow the system to be open and suspect to this kind of abuse that is currently going on.
Hon Chairperson, we want to offer our support as the IFP to the department, particularly to the Deputy Minister as our special envoy to the open government partnership. We want to believe that the work
which is being done there to promote transparency and accountability in the work of government is very important. We therefore, ... [Inaudible.] I‘m sure she is going to speak about it, but we can assure her that she‘s got our fullest support because the active citizenry that has been activated must be at the forefront of assisting government. Parliament must not relinquish its position as the primary representative of the people.
While civil society is taking on that role, it must do so in collaboration with Parliament. Hon Deputy Minister, we want to assure you for our support as you move forward in that regard. Let us go back to basics and re-professionalise the public service. The turnaround time on disciplinary action must be looked at, it is taking far too long and it is costing the taxpayer lot of money. Let us introduce measures which will ensure that disciplinary steps are concluded within the same and legitimate time. Thank you very much hon Chair. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr S C MNCWABE: Chairperson, hon members, Minister, Deputy Minister, and our distinguished guests in the gallery, the National Freedom Party believes that the functions of the Department of Public Service and Administration should be merged with Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation. In doing so, government will save costs and more effective interchange of information will be possible amongst two departments which have significant overlap in their
mandate. The moderate budget of R770,5 million allocated for the department is in our opinion, water thrown into a bottomless pit.
The allocation of funds amongst the department programs designed to strengthen skills, enhance morale and build an ethos of public service - though noble in intention – is at risk of being fruitless. The reason why we say so is contained in the budget report itself.
The unevenness and often downright incompetent performance is something that is acknowledged in the National Development Plan. The reason is said to be complex and includes the following: tensions in the political administrative interface, instability of administrative leadership, skills deficits, insufficient attention to the role of the state in reproducing the skills it needs, the erosion of accountability and authority, poor organisational design and low staff morale.
Hon Minister, the NFP is of the opinion that no amount of programs and good intentions can correct the structural defect we find in the public service. As long as we do not fight the cadre deployment – particularly in senior management positions - the level of public service in South Africa will continue to suffer. This perpetual tension in the political administrative interface will continue to bedevil in the public service and will continue to contribute to instability in the administrative leadership. Politically connected but ineffective leaders and managers cannot expect to demand
effectiveness from their public service subordinates. It is a proverbial example of a fish rotting from the head Hon Minister.
Having stated our position, the NFP accepts the budget report tabled today and we are in agreement with the recommendations of the Portfolio Committee. We acknowledge the goals which the department had achieved, despite the structural constraints it faces. However, we reiterate that the department‘s function could meaningfully be incorporated elsewhere, and until such time the NFP is compelled to support this budget. I thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Hon
Chairperson; Minister of the Public Service and Administration, Adv Ramatlhodi; hon chairperson of the portfolio committee; hon Members of Parliament; civil society organisations that have joined us today that work with us in the African Peer Review Mechanism, APRM, and the open government partnership, OGP; all protocol observed.
We deliver the Budget Vote for the Ministry of the Public Service and Administration at a significant juncture in our democracy. It was during this month, 20 years ago, that the people of South Africa adopted the country‘s first ever Constitution. This progressive Constitution, which is still lauded the world over, was the sum of the collective wisdom of the people of South Africa and was arrived at by general accord. It is a Constitution derived from the many decades of the struggle for liberation of our people and the
international solidarity we received that led to the demise of apartheid.
It was in this, one of the largest public participation programmes ever carried out in South Africa, that the process of drafting the Constitution, which involved many South Africans, occurred.
Pioneering the public participation programme was the June 26, 1955 assembly in Kliptown which saw the adoption of the Freedom Charter. The charter was unique, being the first time ever that the people of South Africa converged to formulate their own vision of an alternative society.
The Freedom Charter has helped model our public participation architecture and a number of programmes have emanated from that experience. The nature of public participation and a participatory democracy witnessed in these processes is an intrinsic one, which is now embedded in how we approach our work as the Public Service.
Over the past year, we have undertaken substantial work in improving the level of citizen satisfaction with services across the spheres of government. As part of the Imbizo programme, we have embarked on a public participation initiative in the Eden District, in the Southern Cape. This is a district that covers the Bitou, George, Hessequa, Kannaland, Knysna, Mossel Bay and Oudtshoorn Local Municipalities.
Our approach has been quite focused. Instead of visiting different communities in widespread localities during the quarterly visits, we have invested and intensified our energies in getting to the root of issues within the district and resolving these issues, hand in hand with the community affected and other partners, both in the Public Service and the public sector. From these engagements, we have learnt that the future of the Public Service lies not only in interdepartmental collaboration, but also intergovernmental co- operation.
It is crucial, moving ahead, that we foster a spirit of a government that is unified in action, one that is transparent and consultative, and whose machinery works seamlessly to uplift our communities. This will position government a step ahead as it seeks to make a real, meaningful and definitive change in the lives of our people. We are, after all, a unitary state.
In our Budget Vote speech to this House in July 2014, we undertook to strengthen the capacity of the Community Development Workers programme, CDWP, to serve as an early-warning system providing alerts on communities in distress as a result of poor service delivery. The revised Public Service Regulations that Minister Ramatlhodi has spoken at length about will be an enabling tool for the Community Development Workers programme. These will serve as an important legal foundation for the programme, as they make provision for the development of a framework that structures the work of the
programme. Once developed, the framework will provide a platform for regular communication of governmental and other information to communities in an accessible manner.
Community Development Workers continue to make an impactful difference in communities. This is exemplary in the case of Alice Ledwaba, from Ward 11, in Limpopo, who intervened in the case of a young boy, aged 7, who was given a new nose and mouth after a toothache problem completely destroyed his face. The young boy‘s pride and confidence were restored after an operation was performed at the Steve Biko Academic Hospital. Due to the intervention of the community development worker, the family was given a house, as their living conditions in a shack could not be endured. This is just one of many examples we share as we embark on further work to strengthen the programme and the visibility of these CDWs in our communities.
I commissioned a study conducted by the Department of the Public Service and Administration to resolve a number of issues that impact on the effectiveness of the Thusong Centres programme. A business case on the institutional arrangements for the management and co- ordination of the Thusong Service Centre programme and a funding model for the Thusong Service Centres has been developed. The work has been modelled on international best practice and benchmarking of integrated service centres across the continent and across the world.
I am pleased to inform this House that the study has been completed and we will soon present recommendations to Cabinet on this matter. I am hopeful that, with this important research and the far-reaching recommendations that have been made in this report, we will commence the journey of ensuring that this key programme of government is better governed and resourced.
As host country to the APRM Secretariat, I am pleased to report to the House that, in January 2016, the African Union APR Forum Summit unanimously endorsed the appointment of Dr Eddy Maloka as CEO. As one of the first countries to have been reviewed in the APRM, South Africa will keep up with its trend of adhering to the principles of the APRM as we undergo our second review.
We began Africa Month on an extremely high note with the successful hosting of the meeting of the Open Government Partnership Steering Committee on 4 May, in Cape Town, and the third Africa Regional Meeting of the Open Government Partnership of South Africa on 5 and
6 May, in Cape Town. This regional meeting was hosted under the theme, Open Government for Sustainable Development in Africa.
The significance of this regional meeting has been the ability to attract small civil society organisations that were initially not part of the OGP. These grassroots-embedded civil society organisations articulate the voices of local communities which are often side-lined in such deliberations. This inclusive approach is
in line with our commitment, as the Lead Chair of the Open Government Partnership, to broaden participation and include the vulnerable sectors of our society in this partnership.
The regional meeting also featured an important discussion on the role of legislatures, as my hon colleague alluded to earlier, in the Open Government Partnership. I am a champion for this initiative because I truly believe legislatures are the true representatives of the people. I believe that their role in open government will help to deepen and expand the effectiveness of the review process and foster deeper levels of accountability from governments.
During the meeting, we also launched South Africa‘s 3rd OGP Country Action Plan. This is an ambitious plan, one that introduces a level of innovation in how we address the daily issues that affect our people. These are the copies that I have circulated to all of us. It was a very difficult conference, but at the end of it all, it was pronounced as the most successful and biggest that the OGP has ever held, with the most qualitative outcomes that the OGP has ever seen. It reached a point where we, as South Africa, were requested to assist in developing a blueprint that will be premised on the work that we have done, as a department and as a country.
I would also like to say to the members of the House that we did this without hiring an events company. It was the department, our office, on its own, that hosted Africa on the shores of our country
in the Mother City, and we held the best ever Open Government Partnership Regional Conference. Can you clap, please? [Applause.] This is for all South Africans. [Interjections.]
In response to the plea from the Centre for Public Service Innovation, CPSI, for improved support towards funding innovation, we have secured additional donor funding of R50 million over the next five years to fund the up-scaling of innovative models and solutions to improve service delivery. Through this outreach plan, the National School of Government, NSG, has also to generate revenue to support its training operations to a projected sum of
R151 million, in line with its cost recovery model and financial sustainability plan.
I know that I don‘t have much time left. Some of the matters have been raised by the Minister, but I‘d like to also raise an issue on what we will be celebrating in the month of June. I would like to say the following to the youth of June 1976. As we celebrate the 40th anniversary of the June 16 uprisings, it is for you that we present this Budget Vote. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr M L D NTOMBELA: Thank you hon Chairperson. Hon Minister of the Department of Public Service and Administration Adv Ngoako Ramatlhodi, hon Deputy Minister Ayanda Dlodlo, hon chairperson of the portfolio committee Ms Peace Mabe, hon Members of Parliament,
the hardworking section of the administration under the leadership, comrades and friends, I greet you all.
Umhlahlandlela weqembu le-ANC ukubeka kucace ukuthi sizibophezele kwimigomo nemibono yethu yokuba ngongqa phambili ekuguquleni isimo sezimpilo zabantu bakithi eNingizimu Afrika sibe ngcono kunalokhu esiyikhona manje. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[The ANC‘s policy is clear that we are committed to our goals and ideas of being the first to change the lives of the South Africans so that they can be better than what they‘re right now.]
Through our skills development initiatives, we will turn every public sector workplace into a training space and develop a conscientious Public Service.
If I were to rewind our memories back to the era between the 1980s and the 1990s, one would have never thought for a moment that the Department of Public Service and Administration would be what it is today after the amalgamation of all the departments under the homeland system. This was a mammoth task but a feather in the cap of the ANC-led government.
This Budget Vote presentation is a continuation of an honest attempt to address what we inherited under the apartheid dispensation and
also charts a way forward as we contribute towards the development of our democratic state.
Agenda 2063 calls for an African skills revolution. The AU Commission requested the African Capacity Building Foundation to conduct a study on key critical technical skills and capacities required for the implementation of the African vision.
The establishment of the National School of Government, NSG, is but one of these strategic objectives to realise our vision. Woe unto those who are trying to shoot it down. The NSG intends to train close to 30 000 newly appointed public servants on the compulsory induction programme and monitor its outcomes, and further train
20 O00 persons in line with the courses and programmes on the NSG course matrix.
Ikomidi ngakho-ke lisishayela ihlombe isenzo sesikole sikaHulumeni sikaZwelonke phecelezi i-National School of Government sokusebenzisa abantu abanolwazi olunzulu kanye nabaqeqeshekile, ukwabelana ngamakhono kanye nolwazi kubafundi. Lokhu kuncomeka kakhulu ngoba kwehlisa izindleko ezinkulu zokukhokhela abeluleka ngokwenziwa komsebenzi phecelezi ama-consultants. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[The committee applauds the National School of Government for using people who are well trained and highly skilled, with regard to
sharing of skills and information with the students. This is highly commendable because it reduces high costs of paying the consultants.]
As an integral part of its mission, the NSG will assist a number of unemployed youth graduates to be orientated in the Public Service and also facilitate the participation of the Public Service interns in this programme. This is indeed in line with the National Development Plan vision that by 2030 South Africa‘s public servants should be skilled, professional and accountable to the communities they serve.
The portfolio committee has a high regard for the NSG and places a very high premium on it. So, the conscious development and enhancement of the NSG as a thought leader across the public and private sectors cannot be overemphasised.
This effort to realise a well trained and highly skilled Public Service cadre ... Can I repeat this one? This effort to realise a well trained and highly skilled Public Service cadre through the NSG as a conduit is commendable and it also puts a meaning to the demographic dividend and opportunities that this dividend presents to Africa and particularly South Africa.
The department is geared towards supporting government departments in appointing 20 000 youth into learnership, internship and artisan
programmes. Since 2009, close to 140 O00 young people have benefitted in these developmental programmes and continue to do so. This also gives them an opportunity of getting absorbed into the system; thus enhancing the Department of Public Service and Administration as a career of choice.
Among other things, the roll-out of the compulsory executive programmes for senior management has reignited the motivation for the achievement of an efficient and professional service.
Modulasetulo, ke tseba hantle hore ho na le balakaletsi mona ba tla tla ba bua ditsiebadimo tsa bona ... [Chairperson, I know very well that there are naysayers who will come here with their absurdities.]
... to come and complain like stuck records about the bloated Public Service and so and so on, forgetting that this government is committed to building a Public Service cadre who is always committed to making sure that it delivers to the nation.
For the record, the department had promised the portfolio committee that it would amend the Public Service regulations in order to address certain gaps in the legislation, and it has delivered on this promise.
In its quest to transform the Public Service into an effective, efficient and essential part of a capable developmental state, it is
worth mentioning that the Department of Public Service and Administration continues to play its part to ensure that young people of our country get the exposure and experience they need at the workplace. To train a young African, you train it for the world.
The amended regulations will empower the Minister of Public Service and Administration to ensure that more and more employees within the Public Service declare their financial interests. The regulations also deal with measures for prohibiting the re-employment of officials that were dismissed due to misconduct; a matter which has always been a concern to all of us.
It is for this reason that the national general council of the ANC reaffirmed its resolve to fight corruption and such tendencies at all levels of the Public Service. It struck me as very strange when a member of the DA spoke about the President having forgotten about what you called corruption in ... [Inaudible.] ... but I also noted with interest that it is actually the member herself whose vocabulary is lacking considering all the scandals that are taking place in the Western Cape. Her memory must be very short. I expect the opposition to acknowledge what I am saying but of course it depends on their principles of fairness. [Interjections.]
Following the commitment to the portfolio committee, the revised regulations are now firmly in place to implement the legislative amendments to the Public Service Act and the Public Administration
Management Act. All legislative processes were done efficiently to come up with the legislation. The public participation process was conducted and the views of the people were incorporated adequately. It is only a relatively strong Public Service and by extension the government with a strong legitimacy base like this one led by the ANC that can really involve people in policy matters.
South Africa as a developing state has put in place policies which can make the Public Service an institution of the people‘s power. I am glad that the Minister has highlighted some of these milestones. The Productivity Management and Measurement Framework is firmly entrenched so that it can be determined by all whether or not the Public Service is efficient regarding service delivery.
As I conclude, I must acknowledge that yes; we still have some challenges, considering where we come from. There are still issues which need our undivided attention, like ill health, retirements and the Government Employees Medical Scheme, GEMS, which should be dealt with expeditiously and decisively. The committee clarified the reporting line of GEMS and will in this current financial year invite GEMS to come and account.
Ha ke qetela Modulasetulo ya hlomphehang ke re hae moo, o mong feela Mokgatlo o tsebang mathata a lona; o mong feela mokgatlo o tsebang moo le tswang teng le moo re yang teng, e leng Mokgatlo wa ANC feela. Ha ho pohopedi sakeng lena, ke Mokgatlo wa ANC feela. Re
shota ka wena Siwelele sa Masele; re shota ka wena Mabhakabhaka; re shota ka wena Makhosi le Masandawana. (Translation of Sesotho paragraph follows.)
[In conclusion, hon Chairperson, here in South Africa, there is only one political party which knows your struggles; there is only one political party which knows where you come from and where you are going, which is the ANC. There cannot be two bulls in this kraal; it is only the ANC. We are just missing you, Siwelele sa Masele; we are missing you, Mabhakabhaka; we are missing you, Makhosi le Masandawana.]
The ANC supports this budget. [Applause.]
Mr L R MBINDA: Hon Chair, the PAC acknowledged the importance of the Department of Public Service and Administration. The task of looking after working conditions of the public servants cannot be taken lightly. These working conditions determine the performance levels of every civil servant and their impact is ultimately felt by citizens who are on the receiving hand of various service delivery points of the state.
The PAC must put its disgust and displeasure on the terrible citizen experience when it comes to service delivery. The endless public protests we witness daily are a display of high dissatisfaction amongst citizens of the Republic. While our eyes are still in the
Northern Cape citizens complaining about lack of roads then there are disruptions in North West by citizens lamenting about lack of water. There are service delivery protests in almost every part of the country and clearly the work of the Department of Public Service and Administration, DPSA, has only brought negative impact to the citizens of this country. This is as a result of poor organisational structure, which is in some instances blotted, resulting in duplication of functions.
This reality was captured by the police report presented by the Minister Nhleko in this House, indicating a 100% increase in protest between 2007 and 2014.
The PAC says this is guided by the daily realities in government offices while the DPSA set 10% target on vacant posts.
Notwithstanding longer waiting time for various governments response on various matters, the DPSA still has the guts to praise 11,58%.
The PAC reluctantly supports this budget, and we support it with the demands of the total transformation of salaries and better working conditions. And then the PAC calls this House to do away with wage gaps between DGs and lowest paid government employees. We hope that salary anomalies discrepancies will be addressed as a result of, of course, the apartheid era will be addressed as a matter of urgency.
If the DGs are earning about R2 million, we don‘t understand why a traffic officer will get less than a million per annum. We appreciate and noted the call for stopping cadre-ship development. At least we see quite a lot of MPs at least discouraging the department from doing that. We must all understand that the focus now, more especially from Auditor-General is on performance information which will assist us in service delivery. Thank you very much. [Applause]
THE ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashele): The hon van der Westhuizen! [Interjections.] Can we allow the member to debate? Proceed.
Mr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Hon Chairperson, Minister Ramatlodi, Deputy Minister Dlodlo, colleagues and members of the public, we have thousands of dedicated and hard-working staff amongst the more than 1,4 million public servants. People that are always looking for opportunities to improve their service standards, who will move mountains to meet deadlines and when required will put in the extra hours. People that now will have to work even harder, due to the current cost-cutting measures. I want to honour them today.
Unfortunately, their contributions are not cherished. This government has shown that the quality of the public service is not a priority. If the President was really serious about developing a capable state, he would not have left this department without a full-time Minister for more than six months. Hon Minister Ramatlodi,
if you did not show a reluctance to dine in Saxonworld with the Guptas, the vacancy caused by the ultimately death of former Minister Chabane would in all probability still exist.
The National Development Plan lists a number of issues that affect the public service negatively. And you refer to some of them, instability in administrative leadership, erosion of accountability and authority, poor organisational design, inappropriate staffing and low morale. Unfortunately, the national government lacks the political will to address these issues.
Why has the Department of Monitoring and Evaluation consistently found that provincial departments and local governments run by the DA are out-performing ANC-run administrations? One word, accountability. Why are the corruption levels, my colleague, hon Lovemore, referred to, not addressed in ANC administrations? Lack of accountability. Let me illustrate this lacklustre approach to accountability by the ANC.
All senior managers in the public service must annually declare their financial interests as part of the fight against corruption. The senior managers in the Western Cape Provincial Administration have shown 100% compliance in this regard over the last few years. Yet, in the case of the ANC-run national government, only about two out of every three senior managers declared their interest in 2015.
No one was accountable for this failure. Minister, you spoke of new regulations and strengthening consequences for non-adherence to this. Just ask yourself, who should act against senior managers in the national government that ignore regulations? The Members of Cabinet. And who, in turn, is supposed to hold the executive accountable? First the President, and then this Parliament! So, because this Parliament is failing in its duty, Ministers do not hold senior management staff accountable. And do I need members to remind you of the scathing words of the Judge President of the Constitutional Court regarding the failures of this Parliament?
The National Development Plan also highlights the negative effects of the tensions in the political administrative interplay. And Minister, I am glad that you also referred to that. The portfolio committee recently learned that, instead of oversight and strategic guidance, some Ministers still insist on cadre deployment and they want to prescribe who may be appointed in their departments.
The committee learned that some director-generals may not even appoint secretaries in their offices without the Ministers signing off on the appointments. It is this kind of interference in the administration that eventually results in private airplanes taking off from Waterkloof Air Port Force Base, in officials signing off for private swimming pools, chickens runs, cattle kraals, for drafting specifications for a R4 billion executive jet, for
officials organising food parcels bought with public money for politicians to distribute during elections. The list continues.
The National Development Plan, quite justifiably, also refers to the lack of skills and capacity in the public service. And I am grateful for the members who have also referred to this, which brings me to another serial under-performer, the National School of Government.
Eighty four percent of its training is on informal programmes and not recognised by SA Qualification Authority. A ministerial directive in 2008 introduced the compulsory induction course for public servants lasting not one, not two, not three days, but 26 days. And who has the monopoly to offer this programme? The National School of Government.
Now the school‘s budget has been cut from R150 million to
R55 million this year, and is now using its monopoly to force other departments to cough up for the compulsory induction programme in order to balance its books. Without completing the first module of this programme, no public servant can end his or her period of probation. Tens, if not hundreds of thousands of public servants have had their careers put on hold because of this backlog.
The NDP quite rightly points out that the poor suffers most when the public service fails. The DA has shown that it will hold public servants accountable, thereby ensuring quality services to the poor.
For accountability to feature at national level, we need a President that will have his finger on the pulse of Cabinet. We need Cabinet Ministers that understand their role, Ministers that do not interfere in the administration, but that hold managers accountable for the performance of their departments. Moreover, we need a Parliament that really works. It is clear that the current government is unable to achieve this. Fortunately, voters can start turning this around on local government level on 3 August this year. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Nk Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANA: Sihlalo weNdlu, umhlonishwa uNgqongqoshe uRamathlodi, neSekela likaNgqongqoshe, abahlonishwa bale Ndlu, iMinyango namaphiko ayo, izivakashi zikaNgqongqoshe neSekela lakhe ngiyanibingelela ekuseni. INingizimu Afrika ibonga izinguquko ezalethwa nguKhongolose ngonyaka we-1994 kuze kube yimanje. Ukuba bekungezona lezo zinguquko ngabe ilungu elihloniphekile uHlengwa akakwazi ukusho: we babo!. [Uhleko.]
Ngisho ukuthi i-ANC isebenzile ibonile kufanelekile ukuthi phakathi kulo Mnyango Wezemisebenzi Kahulumeni Nokuphathwa Kwayo kube khona ezinye izikhungo ezehlukene ezikhona njengendlu yezikhungo se-Public Service Innovation kanye nendlu ye-Public service Commissioners.
Ngizoqala ke ngazise umphakathi ngoba lezi zikhungo azijwayele ukuthi zazeke ukuthi zenzani emphakathini.
Isikhungo se-Public Service Innovation okuthiwa phecelezi i-CPSI sibaluleke ngalendlela yokuthi sibheka ukuthi siqhuba kanjani ukuletha izidingongqangi, yiziphi izingqinamba ezikhona futhi zingaxazululwa kanjani. Sibuye futhi sithathe izincomo zalokho sazise iMinyango ukuthi cha, ingenza kanjena noma ingasizakala ngokuthi yenze nje.
Ngizonichazela nje okwenzeke laphaya esibhedlela esikhulu eMgungundlovu lapho uMnyango wesikhungo se-Public Service and Innovation uhambile wabona ukuthi cha, akuzukusisiza kulokhu kuthiwa akukhushulwe izimali ngoba inkinga eba khona manje abasebenzi bakahulumeni bazofuna ukuba bakhushulelwe imiholo. Yebo sivuma ngenxa yokwehla kwamandla emali kodwa kukhona lokho okwenza ukuthi kube nezincomo kumphumela. Umphumela ungaphezulu kwalokhu.
Lo Mnyango wesikhungo se-Public Service and Innovation uthe usuka waqhamuka nohlelo lokunikeza imimklomelo ezibhedlela ezenza izinto ngendlela ehlukile. Ngeke kusize yini lokhu ukuvuselela ugqozi ezibhedlela. Ngempela ngempela kusebenzile lokho. Lolu hlelo lwabo balubize ngokuthiyi-:? Saving blood, Saving lives?. I-Edendale izibone ilondoloza imali ezigidigidi eziyi-7 zamarandi ngalokho nje. [Ihlombe ] Okuchaza ukuthi lohulumeni oholwa nguKhongolose uyaqhuba ngempela. Lo hulumeni oholwa nguKhongolose ubhekelele abantu.
Ubabhekelele ngokuphelele , akabuki ukuthi kwenzekani.
Lo Mnyango wesikhungo se-Public Service and Innovation uphindile wabona engathi kunenkinga kwezemfundo laphaya ezikoleni. Wase uyahlangana noMnyango Wezemfundo baqhamuka nohlelo lwe-e-learning. Lolu hlelo sithe uma silubheka siyikomidi sabona ukuthi lusebenzile kakhulu ngoba sibone i-Argus Combined School ikhuphuka kwiSayensi. Phambilini kade kungekho abantwana abaphasa iSayensi kodwa sabona sebephasa ngamaphesenti ayi-100 ngowezi-2015. Siyabonga singuKhongole. [Ihlombe.] Sabona futhi beya eMasizakhe secondary eBreyten lapho imiphumela yezibalo ibingemihle, abantwana bengaboni lutho kwizibalo. Basizwa izinga lezibalo lenyuka kusukela kumaphesenti ayi-19 lafinyelela kumaphesenti angama-88 ngowezi-2015. [Ihlombe.]
Siyabonga kakhulu umsebenzi owenziwe yi-CPSI. Sithi kuNgqongqoshe uRamathlodi, siyakucela kakhulu isabiwomali salesi sikhungo sincane kakhulu. Siyazi ukuthi imali ayikho. Siyazi ukuthi uMgcinimafa Kazwelonke uthi sibophe ibhande kepha-ke into engasisiza ubambiswano ukuthi lo Mnyango ubheke ngaphakathi kweminye iMinyango yethu imali eyabelwe wona ukuze kwenziwe lo msebenzi ithathwe isetshenziswe ukuze baqhubeke nomsebenzi wabo ngoba bangasiza ngalemigqa emide esezibhedlela bahlinzeke ngezinhlelo zokwehlisa imigqa emide naseMnyangweni Wezokuthutha. Uma ungase usisize ngalokho ngokuhlanganyela nozakwenu ukuthuthukisa lo Mnyango ube nemali elingene.
Ngibuye ngikhulume ngalolu daba lwamakhomishana aphethwe ngusihlalo wawo uSizani. Le ndlu engaphakathi kwe-DPSA yamakhomishana ibinezigidi ezingama-234,2 zamarandi ngonyaka wezimali wezi-2015/16. Siyabonga singuKhongolose ukuthi uMgcinimafa ukwazile ukunezela ngamaphesenti ayi-8,2 ngoba umsebenzi wayo ubalulekile kakhulu.
Umsebenzi wayo uwukulwa nenkohlakalo ... (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Ms Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANA: Chairperson, hon Minister Ramathlodi, Deputy Minister, hon members of this House, all the departments and their divisions, Minister‘s visitors and his Deputy, good morning. South Africa appreciates change that ANC did in 1994 up until now. If it was not for that change, hon Hlengwa would have not been able to say: whatever! [Laughter.]
What I am saying is that ANC has worked hard, it realised that in this Department of Public Service and Administration there must be other divisions like the divisions of Public Service Innovation and the Public service Commissioners. I will inform the community because the role of these divisions are unknown to the public.
The division of the Public Service Innovation (CPSI) is very important because it looks at how we deliver basic needs, the challenges, and how they can be resolved. It also takes the recommendations madeand informs the department about them, they can do it like this or they can get help by doing it in this matter.
I would explain about what happened there in Pietermaritzburg‘s biggest hospital where the department‘s division of Public Service and Innovation went to visit and saw that, it will not help to say that the money must be raised because the problem that we will have is that the government‘s employees will want an salary. Yes, we agree because of the inflation but there is a productivity outcome which is more than this.
This department‘s division of the Public Service and Innovation then developed a programme of awarding innovative hospitals, wouldn‘t this help the hospitals to have passion in their work? This really worked. This programme is called: ?Saving blood, Saving lives?. The Edendale hospital saw themselves saving R7 million because of that. [Applause.] Which means that this ANC-led government is really moving forward. This ANC-led government is taking care of the people. It is taking care of them in totality, it does not look at what happened.
This department‘s division of the Public Service and Innovation again saw that, there are problems with regard to education at schools. They then met with the Department of Education and came up with the e-learning programme. We looked at this programme and saw that, it has worked because we saw Argus Combined School doing well in Science. Children were failing Science but we saw them passing with 100% in 2015. As the ANC we are grateful. [Applause.] We then saw them going to Masizakhe secondary in Breyten where Mathematics
results were not satisfactory, children did not understand anything in mathematics. They got help, and their results improved from 19% to 88% in 2015. [Applause.]
We are so grateful for what the CPSI is doing. We are saying to, Minister Ramathlodi, the budget for this division is low. We know that there is no money. We know that the national Treasury says we must tighten our belts but what can help is co-operation so that this department can look for the money that is used by other departments to be allocated to this department for this work to be done, and be used so they can continue with their work, because they can help with these long queues that are in the hospitals and provide the programmes that can prevent these long queues also in the Department of Transport. If you can assist us with that together with your colleagues for this department to improve in having enough money.
And also talk about the issue of the commission that is led by their chairperson, Mr Sizani. This commission that is inside DPSA had R234,2 million in the financial year of 2015/16. As the ANC we are grateful that the Treasury was able to add 8,2% because its function is very important. Its function is to fight corruption...]
... is to monitor the implementation of the financial disclosure system to fight corruption.
I will be actually not making justice. Hon Waters asked me that I must tell the House and South Africans how corrupt the Western Cape is. Now, I need to tell crowd. In 2015 the Western Cape the high court wrote to the DA. The High court ruled that the DA tender worth R13,5 million was a corrupt deal. [Interjections.] The DA was ordered to reverse that tender process. Also, the story of Hatting‘s wife continues. It is a waste. She wasted R11,7 million to buy the red poison. That is corruption. [Interjections.] Are you satisfied now? [Interjections.] You can howl ...
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Order hon members. Allow the member to say what she wants to say. Then your next member will have an opportunity to respond. [Interjections.]
Ms Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANA: You know when a party does not have the policies they tend to base their debates on a very common, useless meaning or content. As a result South Africans do not benefit from the debates because all that has happened to date are the ANC‘s set policies. What is supposed to be done by the DA is to work on the policies and say – you have tried these policies and you have failed because the policy has one, two, three and four. They do not have their own policies. They come here; stand and talk about heads must roll. Heads must roll based on what? They don‘t know. Heads must roll based on this: heads must roll on the R1,13 million that was misused. Heads must roll on that one. [Interjections.] You cannot
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L mashile): Order, order hon members.
Ms Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANA: ... there is no way you can compare the service delivery of one province out of nine provinces. You manage one province but you compare it with eight provinces and you say you are the best. You are showing the country that bluish useless book. It doesn‘t make sense. [Interjections.]
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Order! Hon member you can‘t scream like that. [Interjections.] ... but you can‘t scream like that so that we cannot hear the member debating. Please keep your voice very low so that we can hear what the member is saying.
Ms Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANA: I think what they are supposed to do now they must tell Mr Hattings to stop spending so much money on corruption and buy burgers because the DA will lose weight. You will lose weight with 11,7. [Interjections.]
Hon Lovemore, comes here and make allegations ...
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Order hon members. Please. I am requesting you to allow the member to proceed with the debate as other members were allowed to proceed with their debates. It doesn‘t matter whether the facts are hot or not. Allow her to speak and also hon member I am sure you know that you are not allowed to flick a gesture as you are doing. You are creating drama in the
House. I do not think our guests require that. Allow the member to proceed and complete the debate. Thank you very much.
Ms Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANA: On Public Service Commission - As the ANC we set policies and expect departments or divisions to make sure that they deliver within those policies. We want to upload the Public Service Commission for making sure that they attained the 81% on the e-disclosure which is very good. The reason why they did that is because they were given the money to do that. We are able to understand that they also do their own research within the commission. They do not outsource their research. So, there is no outsourcing. They have to be helped. I do not understand why the DA
... - hon Lovemore, you came here ... the only one thing I‘ve heard from you. Why the policy was not this? Why was this and ... – I mean – why. The ANC does not have time to answer on why‘s and where‘s. [Interjections.] We have time to answer on the content. We have got time to improve on the issues and challenges. [Interjections.]
There is an allegation that the department has failed to establish the norms and the standards. That is an allegation. I am requesting that the DA hon Lovemore, to please go and research. The ANC is not responsible for your knowledge deficit. You better have a better content to come and debate. The ANC supports this budget. You haven‘t said anything ... [Applause.]
THE ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Hon members, all those members that have debated have raised issues, they have raised questions and you require responses on behalf of our electorates. Can we now allow the Minister to respond to those?
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Chairperson, I am
carrying a file with lots of answers. This being my first Budget Vote, I wish to, as I rise to answer questions, acknowledge my predecessor in his position – one of our brightest brains Collins Chabane - who met an untimely death ... [Laughter.] ... and who left us too soon. I thought I should do that.
The second issue is: I have just put face to the person who makes me work overtime with questions, that is hon Lovemore. I spend sleepless nights. [Laughter.] [Applause.] She is working very hard. Possibly, on average, I have got four to five questions a week to answer. That is what it is. That is a good eh ... [Interjections.]
... No, no, we are working together in a collaborative manner. Thank you very much.
May I just go on to the assertion that the Department of Public and Administration has abandoned its work on building minimum anticorruption capacity in the departments. On the contrary this work is being deepened through focused training programmes, the designation of additional capacity through ethics officers and the provision of additional tools such as the prohibition of public
servants from doing business with the state. Those are part of the anticorruption measures that are in place.
We do understand that maybe we are not communicating enough, so we need to make sure that this message is driven through, particularly to members of our legislature who are in the committee – the Public Service and Administration Committee. We will up our game to make sure that we allow you more access to that.
There is an issue which was raised about the anticorruption forum. I want to respond in the following manner. It is a collaborative forum between the state and also the civil society. The last meeting was chaired and co-ordinated by the civil society. They have not yet reconvened and their time has expired. We are obviously working at reviving that body.
As government we are committed to ensuring that this body continues to work because it supports also our effort on the international fora such as the African Peer Review Forum and the body that is led by our Deputy Minister - Open Government. So, it is important that we get that structure functioning again.
There are lots of questions about the National School of Governance, what it does and doesn‘t do. The National School of Governance has identified a sweet of compulsory programmes for public servants in the areas of human resource management, financial management, supply
chain management, monitoring and evaluation that must be prescribed and taught on line. It has also engaged formal director-generals regarding the executive induction programmes, that is, for salary levels from 15 to 16; and we will be preparing for the piloting of this programme in this financial year.
The use of director-generals is part of a Cabinet-adopted resolution and we are seeking to use our own internal resources in order to beef up government capacity. Now, still on the subject of National School of Governance, departments have got training budgets within themselves. So, what do we do as National School of Government? We train, on behalf of the department and then recover our costs from them. But we have not only left this on the National School of Governance, we are working in collaboration with other institutions of higher learning where necessary. So, government training programme is going on. I am trying to look at the last few question that I might have missed.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr B L Mashile): Let‘s round up in one and half minute.
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Yes, I told my Director-General that the Chairman is very tough and he is going to deal with me. [Laughter.] Anyway ...
I intend to make sure that serial offenders who do not ... including the National School of Governance, on certain things like disclosures and so on have to be called to order. So, I have ordered the Director-General to draft a letter which I will sign. One of them will be coming to me as Minister of Public Administration. But, dear colleagues, letters are going out to make sure that ...
One of the suggestions that I have made, lastly, is that where there are failures in government departments we need to report on, in each and very Cabinet meeting, non-compliance and say this are the departments that are not complying. And by so doing put sort of pressure on ourselves, similarly with what the Deputy President is doing with unanswered questions in Cabinet. Every Cabinet meeting we are named and shamed, those of us who have not complied.
So, we intend to really get back to the basics and ensure that we have a functioning, effective and people-oriented public service. Thank you very much, Chair.
Debate concluded.
The Committee rose at 11:54.
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