Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 28 Nov 2023
Summary
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Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
TUESDAY, 28 NOVEMBER 2023
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Watch here: Plenary
The House met at 10:01.
House Chairperson Mr M L D Ntombela took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): The secretary will read the first order of the day.
DEBATE ON NINTH BRAZIL, RUSSIA, INDIA, CHINA AND SOUTH AFRICA, BRICS, PARLIAMENTARY FORUM.
Mr S O R MAHUMAPELO: Hon House Chairperson, esteemed hon members of this House, sons and daughters of our African kings and queens, future history is a consequence of our singular and collective actions of today. Passed history has an inherent dialectical relationship with what we do today in order to shape our future tomorrow.
Karl Marx invested a lot of labour of intellect to analyse political developments. He called upon thinking people of the world to embark on the tasks of challenging and changing the world because philosophers had already analysed the world. It is partly in this context hon members, as Karl Marx has said, that we have these debate on Brics Parliamentary Forum today. For we seek to contribute to what he said is the responsibility to change the world. Karl Marx did not issue an instruction that seeks to impose a responsibility on us to change the world unthinkingly. He knew that in the tasks of changing what philosophers had already philosophised about, we require the necessary investment and application of the labour of intellect as he sought to do.
The Brics as a phenomenon of human development, is the product of the application of the labour of intellect itself. Its first meeting was held in Moscow in Russia in 2015. We can refer to this important two political developments as the epoch making necessary crosspollination of ideas. It is done in the context of what the people’s unrelenting discipline of the love the ANC has consistently characterised the need to build a better Africa and a better world. This better Africa and a better world which the ANC seeks to build is embedded
within the Brics plus phenomenon and forms part of part of what Karl Marx envisaged as the need to change the world.
Brazil, Russia, China and South Africa will now become Brics plus, when it includes Egypt, Argentina, Iran, Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates, UAE.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): The hon Supra.
Mme Bridgette Thlomelang, could you please check your gadget. Please mute, it is so consistent.
Thank you hon member, you can go ahead.
Mr S O R MAHUMAPELO: Hon House Chairperson, can I proceed? Thank you very much.
Brazil, Russia, China and South Africa, will now become Brics plus when it includes Egypt, Argentina, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates, in January 2024. Among other things, this will then mean that there will now be 10 Parliament member states of the Brics. The implications in this regard will go ongoing evaluation and impact assessment by the Brics plus on the following issues.
Firstly, it will be economic geopolitical strategic and political advantages. Secondly, it will be the energy exploitation for survival of humanity. Thirdly, it will be easy trade among this countries. The fourth one will be the movement of people to people relations. The fifth one will be currency enhancement through trade among the nations. The sixth one will be the collaboration in the United Nations issues. Seventhly, will be the growing population moving towards half of the globe. Finally, approximately 38% of expected gross domestic product, GDP, globally will be one of the implications.
In the necessary course of crosspollination of global ideas, the Brics parliamentary forum was born as we have indicated in September 2023. The Brics plus nations reaffirmed their commitment to the spirit of mutual respect, solidarity, sovereign equality, democracy, openness, inclusivity, collaboration and consensus.
The Brics Parliamentary Forum also reiterated the same commitment. It is a forum born out of objective reality that its members do not seek political homogeneity, but political heterogeneity. The political systems within Brics for example on oversight, as a function of delegated responsibility to
Parliaments by society is not a common threat among the Brics member states. Win, win which is a consequence of a co- influence of ideas is one of the strategic methods employed.
We are acutely conscious of the reality that what we have collectively agree to pursue and achieve as Brics Parliamentary Forum is not and cannot be achieved under conditions of our choice nor liking.
The Brics genesis and evolution takes place within a protracted geopolitical struggle. In this geopolitical protracted struggle, economics for the sake of Brics people, becomes one of the fundamental imperatives.
Recently, in South Africa in September 26 to 28, the Brics Parliamentary Forum held it ninth gathering. Among others in the declaration postulated on the following issues: Firstly, to intensify the multilateralism dialogue among the lawmakers, secondly, work towards building a multipolar world, thirdly, intensify more civil society participation and lastly, intensification of women in leading society across the Brics countries.
Going forward, a question might arise, as the Brics evolution unfolds. To the effect that why because we are one of the pioneers of the Pan-African Parliament, why are we not championing a possible idea of Brics becoming Brazil, Russia, India, China and Africa, Brica. This among other things it can be argued, it would assist Africa to participate and act as one within the Brics plus nations.
The Brica plus will make it more difficult for Western countries to continue dividing the African continent as they have been doing for many decades. The Brica plus will better enhance the now adopted African Continental Free Trade Agreement which the hon Makhubele-Mashele will reflect more upon.
Hon House Chairperson, it could also be argued that possible Brica plus will accelerate the idea which people like Marcus Garvey and brother leader Gadhafi among others, had postulated of having Africa as one single united country possibly with independent states. Should this be achieved through the Brics plus initiative? It would among other things mean that within Braca plus countries we would be having three of them which is Africa, China and India with a population of over a billion each one of them.
We can all agree that the African Union takes us to this important objective of reversing what the Berlin Conference of 1884-85 initiated by people like King Leopold II of Belgium and Bismarck.
This development is important because noble efforts such as Brics plus countries is being criticized by the off springs of our former colonisers of the Western countries.
As Kwame Nkrumah said and I quote:
Unite we must. Without necessarily sacrificing our sovereignties, big or small, we can here and now forge a political union based on defence diplomacy, foreign affairs, and a common citizenship, an African currency, an African monetary zone and an African central bank.
Let the Brics plus phenomenon change the world to eternity. We have to bequeath to future generations, a better Africa and a better world as a disciplined force of the A of, of the left the ANC is committed to. Thank you.
Mr M CHETTY: Greetings, hon Chair and members, if anyone wanted proof of how South Africa, under the ANC government, has deviated from an ethical foreign policy based on the principles of democracy, human rights and a rules-based international order, the 9th BRICS Parliamentary Forum held in Johannesburg provided the answer.
The ANC’s complete disregard for professionalism, time keeping and organization, combined with underwhelming representation from several key member countries, has entered the forum, little more than an anti-Western propaganda talk shop.
While in the company of some of the world’s worst human rights defenders, from Russia to Iran, the ANC failed to show its backbone in projecting the democratic values and respect for the sanctity of human rights enshrined in our Constitution.
Instead, what we saw was the festival to share messages of solidarity with warmongers and human rights violators.
The ANC was happy to stand by while Russia and Iran rubbished South Africa’s important allies in the West, unbothered by how our tenuous, diplomatic and trade relations with the West have become.
The ANC government has continued down the path of excusing the behaviour of rogue states that have upended international peace and infringed on the rights of their own citizens.
For a country that held so much of promise after 1994, the ANC has relegated South Africa to the periphery of global affairs and reduced us to an inconsequential player in international affairs.
How did we lose our global celebrated international standing? One may ask. The answer is simple. It’s not an event, but a process. From the policy of quiet diplomacy against Zimbabwe’s brutal dictatorship to aiding and abetting ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Chetty, could you please take a seat. There’s a point of order.
The hon Papo, you have your hand up.
Mr A H M PAPO: House Chair, I wanted to check whether the member will take a question on his right-wing views?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Chetty, will you take a question? Hon Chetty, will you take a question from
... [Inaudible.]
Mr M CHETTY: ... [Inaudible.] ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): No.
Please proceed, hon Chetty.
Mr M CHETTY: How did we lose our global celebrated international standing, when we asked? The answer is simple. It was not an event, but the process.
From the policy of quiet diplomacy against Zimbabwe’s brutal dictatorship to aiding and abetting the escape of a wanted war criminal in the person of Omar Al Bashir, the decline of South Africa’s international structure took root.
We became a country that stood in solidarity with despots while turning our back on global alliances invested in peace and human progress.
When the ANC chose to pursue its unprincipled doctrine of nonalignment on Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, the ANC’s regressive policy had gone full circle. That was the moment that the ANC government extinguished any lingering hope of South Africa ever retracing its steps back into a value-based foreign policy.
But in all of this regression, the DA has remained committed to a foreign policy centred on the rule of law and zero tolerance to those who violate human rights. Nowhere has the DA demonstrated this kind of result than on Vladimir Putin’s visit to South Africa that never materialized.
Much noise was made by the ANC pre the BRICS Summit, claiming that no one will stop the Russian President from attending the BRICS Summit in person. This false sense of bravado by the ANC was a flimsy attempt to keep up appearances against the DA’s determined resolve to enforce the International Criminal Court, ICC, warrant of arrest against Putin. Fortunately for Putin, he chose to heed the DA’s warning and join the summit via zoom.
The DA was not going to allow the ANC to get away with another Al Bashir shenanigan. The DA defended South Africa’s international obligation under international law and won.
When the ANC carried on with its ruinous support for Putin, the DA had to go on an international damage control campaign to preserve our most important relationship and protect South Africa’s economic interest. We made a presentation before the United States, US, Congress to fight for the country’s continued membership of African Growth and Opportunity Act, AGOA, and we engaged the diplomatic community in Pretoria to assure them that the majority of South Africans did not support the ANC’s kamikaze foreign policy.
In the absence of solid trade agreements and tangible results from our BRICS membership and with the inclusion of new members with which we share no values or principles, there seemingly little benefit to the South African state in BRICS other than political prayer for the ANC.
This is a dangerous way for our country to conduct its foreign policy and a willing development for our country’s founding principles of freedom, human rights, democracy and equality.
If the ANC’s plan is to destroy our important international alliances, we are here to tell2 them that it will not work, the DA will not allow it.
While the ANC engages in useless talk shops like the BRICS Parliamentary Forum, the DA will pursue the serious business of building partnerships that will grow our economy and create jobs for our citizens. I thank you.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: House Chairperson, so, the BRICS Parliamentary Forum is the platform of Members of Parliament from BRICS countries, which from 2010 is comprised of the countries of the Federative Republic of Brazil, the Russian Federation, the Republic of India, the People’s Republic of China and the Republic of South Africa.
BRICS currently accounts for 31% of the global Gross Domestic Product, GDP, 41% of the global population. And it is a significant voice in regional and global politics and economic affairs.
The 15th BRICS summit held here in South Africa ... [Sound glitch.] [Inaudible.] ... 2023 resolved to invite the Federal Republic of Ethiopia, the United Arab Emirates, UAE, the
Islamic Republic of Iran, the República Argentina, the Arab Republic of Egypt and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to form part of the progressive group of countries in pursuit of common economic, financial, social and political co-operation and prosperity.
These countries were also invited to join the BRICS Parliamentary Forum which took place in September 2023 in the City of Ekurhuleni in Gauteng province.
Like the 15th summit, the BRICS Parliamentary Forum dedicated majority of the discussions and deliberations on matters relating to the development of the African continent.
We wish to highlight some of the resolutions of the BRICS Parliamentary Forum, particularly from the commissions that we were ... [Sound glitch.] [Inaudible.] ... to preside over.
That BRICS Parliamentary Forum, in particular, resolved that any engagement, action or initiative by BRICS in relation to trade must unequivocally adopt a stance of anti-imperialism and anti-colonialism.
Ensuring that partnerships are formed on the basis of mutual respect, equality, common prosperity and shared benefit. This is paramount to building trust and fostering equitable and sustainable relations.
The BRICS Parliamentary Forum further resolved that African countries, through their various Parliaments and legislatures, must develop legislation to impose quotas on the export of natural resources and instead focus on promotion of local beneficiation and industrialization of the African economy.
The African countries must develop legislation to combat illicit financial flows and aggressive tax avoidance, and we must deepen our relationship within BRICS to fight against aggressive tax avoidance and illicit financial flows. With Parliaments playing a central role in ... [Inaudible.] ... legislation and playing oversight role to ensure implementation.
The BRICS Parliamentary Forum further supported the development of an integrated energy and electricity plan to maximally and optimally harness Africa’s vast energy resources including hydroelectric potential, natural gas and clean coal, to find independent African solutions to energy challenges.
The BRICS Parliamentary Forum also supported the African Continental Free Trade Area, AfCFTA, and saying that it must not be just a conduit for the free trade of imported goods through African trade corridors, but African countries trading goods and services amongst themselves. And that the further
... [Sound glitch.] [Inaudible.] ... resolution that came was to support and to endorse the Pan-African payment and settlement system, that all African countries and central banks should be in pursuit of a single currency for ease of intra enhanced African trade.
What then becomes the role of Parliaments? Or South Africa’s Parliament in the BRICS Parliamentary Forum?
Number one is that as South Africa’s Parliament we should in each five-year term choose a permanent delegation that is going to represent South Africa in all BRICS Parliamentary Forums in the same way we choose a delegation that represents South Africa in the Pan-African Parliament and the Southern African Development Community, SADC, Parliamentary Forum.
Because the phenomenon and practice done mostly by the ruling party of chopping and changing delegations to BRICS Parliamentary Forum, even to other platforms like the
Inter-Parliamentary Union, it ruins the consistency and ...
[Sound glitch.] [Inaudible.] ... memory, which in return weakens South Africa’s delegation and participation in these important international platforms.
The South Africa’s Parliament must take into serious consideration all the resolutions of the BRICS Parliamentary Forum. Like starting with the upcoming BRICS Summit that will take place in the Russian Federation in 2024.
The BRICS Parliamentary Forum must have a delegation of all Members of Parliament from all the BRICS plus six countries to form part of the plenary discussions in the BRICS Summit, so as to ensure a seamless integration on areas that BRICS Parliamentary Forum must conduct oversight and guide legislation on.
And that all British countries should agree to form an official caucus on the sidelines of the Inter-Parliamentary Union assemblies that take place every six months, so as to consolidate the perspectives of all the BRICS, plus countries.
The immediate agenda that must be pursued purposefully by BRICS should include the removal of the dollar as the dominant currency of global trade in the global economy.
BRICS countries must unapologetically take an anti-imperialist and anti-colonial, anti-neocolonial stance in approach to all the global politics.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Shivambu, unfortunately your time has ...
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ... [Inaudible.] ... trap under neocolonialism.
We say as the EFF that South Africa’s Parliament should continue to have meaningful impact and contribution in all the BRICS Parliamentary Forums. Thank you very much.
Mr N SINGH: Hon Chairperson, we are currently witnessing the genesis of a new era of collaboration, as Brics has evolved from a concept into a practical alliance since its establishment in 2009. This alliance has extended its co- operation beyond abstract multilateralism, actively engaging in peace, security, technology, trade, market expansion and infrastructure development. However, right at the outset I would like to say that as far as the IFP is concerned, Brics is not an alternate multilateral platform for any other platforms that we as South Africa and Africa have. So, when I
hear hon Mahumapelo saying that while we want to show the West that we can do a, b and c, I think that is the wrong start for us. We want to increase our ability to trade with as many countries around the world and have co-operation with them, and this is how we see Brics having been formed.
As we heard, we recently hosted the ninth Brazil-Russia-India- China-South Africa parliamentary platform in Gauteng. We all know what the theme was. Yes, indeed, it was a showcase because it showcased the growth in partnership which is likely to expand further, with six invitations extended to other nation states ranging from South America to the Middle East. I think what is important here is the diverse cultures and economic backgrounds that all of these countries come from. We can certainly learn from their own independent situations in their countries.
Having said that, I feel that as South Africa and as the Brics forum committee in South Africa, we could’ve done much, much, much better. Yes, it was a showcase. We went there and we met people from other countries, but as a South African delegation we were not prepared. We should’ve had an opportunity to discuss the resolutions. We should’ve had meetings even before we got there so that we as South Africa knew exactly what we
were talking about. It is unfortunate that sometimes when we go to an international forum as a country we find that we start differing with each other and I hope that the administrators and particularly the Speaker will take note of this so that we all get involved prior to such conferences.
For South Africa to grow, develop and heal the wounds of the past it is crucial to strengthen ties and interactions within both Brics and the Brics Parliamentary Forum. Such strategic partnerships have the potential to transform not only South Africa but also member countries for the betterment of our respective peoples. We have for far too long relied on the South African government to lead the Brics agenda. Now with this Brics Parliamentary Forum, we need to be active as a Parliament in moving forward, so that we can ensure that there is legislation in place that will support the initiatives and goals of these Brics countries. Unless we do that in terms of climate change, economic legislation and things like that, we won’t get anywhere. So, I think it’s very important for parliamentarians to come together to foster and promote the aspirations of all the Brics countries as we move forward.
As I said, what is interesting about Brics is that it is a diverse alliance. What gives us hope is the voluntary
willingness of Brics members to set aside their differences in pursuit of the greater and common good for our nations and citizens. However, I really want to reiterate that this Brics Parliamentary Forum is not a replacement for any other multilateral body that we may have. We need to be open to trading with anybody around the world, as long as it benefits our people and our country. So we will support our Brics membership here and the activities that took place. Thank you, hon Chairperson.
Ms T BREEDT: Chair, can my time just be corrected? The ninth Brics Parliamentary Forum was held in South Africa with all Brics plus members in attendance. In broad terms, the topic was, strengthening relations by promoting multilateralism. It should’ve been a place where parliamentarians could interact with one another, share ideas and strengthen relations. The first day was relatively well attended by all but by close of business it seemed as if the only country really interested in strengthening relations amongst member states was South Africa. The rest of the forum was also badly attended by other Brics countries. It was a real shame. The positive in this however, is that it created an environment where the multiparty South African delegation had an opportunity to interact with one another, share insights and discuss
different policies. It was in effect a workshop for South African on a way forward for South Africa.
Afrikaans:
Wat kenmerkend van die tweede dag se besprekings was is die gefokusde aandag van China op die kontinent van Afrika. Hulle het gereeld hulp aan die ander, kleiner, minder gevestigde ekonomië van Afrika aangebied. Kollegas, dit moet in die lig waarin dit aangebied word gesien word. As ons dink dat hulle doodeenvoudig gaan help sonder om iets in ruil te verwag dan maak ons ‘n bitter groot fout. Ek sê dit uit ervaring van waar China al in Afrika hulp verleen het en waar dit slegs tot China se voordeel was.
Ek dink plaaslik aan Xhariep se vistelery in die Vrystaat. Dit is ‘n R190 miljoen vistelery wat in onbruik staan omdat die toerusting nie geskik vir Suid-Afrika se omstandighede is nie, die vis is nie inheems nie en dit kan die naby geleë dam vervuil. In ruil daarvoor het China mynregte in die Vrystaat gekry.
Ek dink verder aan ons buurland, Namibië, en die grootskaalse opgradering van die Walvisbaai hawe. Daar was sekere voorvereistes vir China om die kontrak te kry, soos onder
andere om plaaslike werkers te gebruik en om vaardigheidsoordrag daar te stel. Daar was min tot geen plaaslike werkers en hulle was bloot vir goedkoop arbeid gebruik. So kan ons aangaan en na die hoofweë van Zanzibar en Mauritius kyk, en vra wat het China in ruil vir daardie paaie gekry.
As Suid-Afrika en die kontinent van Afrika moet ons ook daarteen waak om ’n afsetgebied vir oortollige produkte van ander Brics-lande te wees. Hierdie lande doen dit onder die voorwendsel van gedeelde belange en samewerking as gevolg van Brics. Maar Suid-Afrika is sterk daarheen op pad om ons suikerriet- en pluimveeboere te versaak ter wille van suiker en hoender uit Brasilië. ‘n Ooreenkoms help nie as dit ten koste van ons eie mense geskied nie.
English:
What is also quite puzzling and troubling is the close proximity with countries such as Iran. For a country as South Africa that values human rights and women’s rights as a priority, to be seen as being mum about the human rights violations in Iran is really worrying.
Afrikaans:
Verder rig die ANC se gefaalde buitelandse beleid ongekende skade aan Suid-Afrika. Die ANC se voortdurende gekruip voor die muishonde van die wêreld doen meer kwaad as goed. Deur met die muishonde soos Rusland en Hamas te simpatiseer is ons besig om ‘n reuse vyand van die Weste te maak; ‘n vyand wat ons nie kan bekostig om te hê nie. Ons is byna reeds uit die African Growth and Opportunity Act, Agoa, [Wet op Groei en Geleenthede in Afrika] ooreenkoms geskryf. Hierdie ondeurdagte optrede gaan geweldige implikasies, onder andere ekonomiese gevolge, vir ons inhou. Suid-Afrika was nog altyd een van die leiers op die Afrika kontinent. Ons kan nie bekostig om ondeurdagte aksies toe te laat om onsself uit daardie posisie te skryf nie. Ons kan nie toekyk hoe ander Brics-lande ons en ons kontinent plunder nie. Maar, ek sluit af.
English:
I want to commend all the presenters, chairpersons and rapporteurs from the South African delegation that had important roles to play during the two-day forum. You were all professional and well prepared.
Afrikaans:
Soos ons in Afrikaans sê, julle het jul goed van jul taak gekwyt. Ek dank u.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Chairperson, thank you very much.
IsiXhosa:
USIHLALO WENDLU (Mnu N L D Ntombela): Ndiyaxolisa ...
English:
... hon Kwankwa. The hand of hon Papo is up. Hon Papo what are you rising on?
Mr A H M PAPO: I wanted to ask the member if she can take a question, but I think it is not relevant anymore because she has already finished.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr N L D Ntombela): Okay, thank you very much. You may proceed hon Kwankwa.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Chairperson, the Brics bloc remains of an important politico economic body, which was formed mainly due to the outcome of the geopolitics of the global of global governments. It was mainly, among other things, to create a multipolar world, as already cited earlier and to balance against the hegemony and the dominance of the West in particular and the United States of America on global affairs.
That we cannot shy away from because it is necessary in order for us to create a multipolar world.
It is a no-brainer that being a member of Brics has enhanced South Africa’s position and influence as an important emerging economy, continentally and globally. That is why we disagree with the notion that we must undermine our own national interest and dilute our national interest by making Brics too unwieldy and too big a body, by including the entire African continent.
The view of the UDM is that Africa as a continent should be represented. It should have a representation somewhat in the Brics forum, so that we are able to structure how Brics in particular as a bloc interfaces with the rest of the African continent, including how Brics countries can benefit from the Continental Free Trade Agreement.
To suggest that we must have Brics and then Africa 54 countries or all countries in the Sub-Saharan Africa, you are going to have too big a bloc that you cannot be able to manage, or even that would be too bureaucratic to be able to be effective on any of the issues that it seeks to champion. The issues of economic integration and how Brics countries in
their totality can be able to benefit from the Continental Free Trade Area Agreement is something that the African continent, led by South Africa, should be able to finetune and champion so that we do not treat these countries the same way that we treat other countries who do not have formalised relationships with the African continent.
The other issue is, if we leave it to chance, then we are going to continue to have this popcorn syndrome. Any Brics countries would actually trade with any country in accordance with whatever terms. But if we are able to standardise it, how BRICS countries, in particular trade with the African continent, Africa will be the winner.
The other issue which we feel is important is that the Brics Parliamentary Forum - I was part of the Brics Parliamentary Forum when it was established in 2015 in Russia. But unfortunately, even now when we are talking about the 9th Brics Parliamentary Forum which was held in South Africa, there is no institutional memory of what other resolutions were taken in the past and what happened to those resolutions. Because it is only now that the Brics Parliamentary Forum is being formalised, because all that it did up until this point was to meet on the sidelines of some or other gathering.
Hon Shivambu is right, the fluidity where one gathering, some groups attend, another gathering, it destroys institutional memory. There’s no consistency. There is no follow-up on the decisions taken in the past. As a result, it is as if the 9th British Parliamentary Forum in inverted commas was the first one, because we couldn’t track the progress made so far.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Kwankwa.
IsiXhosa:
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Liphelile ixesha? Yhoo!
English:
Thank you very much.
IsiXhosa:
ILUNGU ELIHLONIPHEKILEYO: Mithathu imizuzu yakho kaloku Tshawe.
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Uqalile Thole.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Kwankwa Siyabulela [thank you.]
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: House Chairperson, let me welcome the. Brics Parliamentary Forum, that took place in Gauteng a while ago. In fact, I think it created an opportunity for Brics countries to come together to build relationships and get a better understanding of where we are in the world and where we want to take this world to. If you consider some of the statements that have been made by President Putin recently, very progressive indeed, and I know some friends in this House of mine have a sense of fear whether the Brics initiative will become so big and successful, then oppression, chaos, mayhem, division, regime change will be a thing of the past. And that’s what they don’t want.
They want the West to control like the late former leader Muammar Gaddafi said, this African continent, one of the richest continents in the world, doesn’t control anything, it’s controlled by the West. So, some people want to continue to sustain and hold us ransom and hostage. And we’ve seen that, of course about with the African Growth Opportunity Act, Agoa Agreement in any case, you either toe the line. If you don’t want to toe the line with their atrocities, okay then of course they want to pull out of a Agoa. But we have seen that.
But I like some of the things that President Putin has said. One of the things I would love us to do is pull out from the World Health Organization. Pull out from the World Health Organization. That’s a puppet organization like the International Monetary Fund, IMF and the World Bank for these West because they want to control. Now you go back to what Bishop Desmond Tutu once said, that the missionaries and the colonialists brought the Bible, they left the Bible in Africa, but they took the land away. This is how devious and crooked these people were. But be that as it may - But indeed this, this is basically what it is.
The Brics initiative, once strengthened with as many countries as possible. Look at what President Putin once again said, social upliftment, everyone having equal status, no dominance by one over the other, okay. No greed for somebody else’s resources, which is what is happening. What is happening in Gaza right now is because of the gas. That is what it is all about. They are after stealing that after what they’ve stolen all over and everywhere else.
The New Development Bank just look at it, 80 investment projects thus far, with over US$30 billion that have been spent. So, it can only benefit South Africa as a whole, but
more importantly, I think all the Brics nations. I think we as South Africa must support this, it is a great initiative. And for the first time, I think you might have a better world where there’s no dominance by one over the other. But ultimately, we must get rid of the World Bank, have an alternative for all these institutions that are puppet institutions. Thank you.
Ms L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE: House Chairperson, hon members ...
IsiZulu:
... sanibonani.
English:
The emergence of BRICS brought hope for the regions’ long- suffering and the effects of underdevelopment. The BRICS partnership continues to achieve global importance for its agenda but needs to sustain its relevance to development and mentorship in pursuit of enhancing and improving global governance through promoting a more agile and efficient representation of democratic and accountable international multilateral system. Hon members, South Africa’s foreign policy is deeply rooted in multilateralism.
The African agenda and the deepening of co-operation amongst nations of the global South and dialogue with the North, it is within this policy paradigm of concentric circles that the idea of a prosperous South Africa and a prosperous Africa is rooted. In 2009 at its inaugural summit in Russia, BRICS spelled out its reform and developmental agenda. Its reform agenda sought a more equitable fair and democratic global governance system. This improved multilateral system would have the United Nations at its centre, drive the reform of the global financial system and its institutions and mobilise the global community towards development, particularly, that of the less developed regions within the world.
The partnership, in our view as South Africa, represents a significant shift towards multilateralism, international relations and offers various opportunities to members, countries and other developing states. The BRICS partnership exemplifies the shift, and it stands as a challenge to the dominance of the Western powers in global affairs. It emphasises the importance of multilateralism in addressing global challenges, including economic issues, security concerns and the environmental problems that we are confronted with.
Greater co-operation and development among BRICS nation is more evident in reforming the international financial architecture. The new Development Bank established by our BRICS countries, provides an alternative source of financing for infrastructure and the sustainable development of project within member countries and other developing countries by promoting trade, investment and financial co-operation, BRICS reduces dependency on the Western dominance financial institutions, and it fosters economic growth, growth amongst member countries. The South and South co-operation is a critical aspect in encouraging co-operation and collaboration among developing countries through an exchange of opportunities of knowledge sharing, technology transfer and capacity building.
For the African continent and South Africa, the defining economic challenge of our generation is and will be industrialisation to find ways to grow more industries, grow greener economies, and grow in innovatively, and this is provided with opportunities within the BRICS and BRICS Plus nations. In giving practical expression to our BRICS partnership, South Africa and China both participates in each other’s trade exhibitions. China invested about R160 billion in South Africa between 2013 and 2019, creating an estimated
amount of 5000 jobs. There is further extensive support for development in our special economic zones.
Hon members, we are also working with the Chinese authorities to address instances of custom, fraud and underinvoicing.
There are a few examples which the BRICS partnership has brought to the South African economy that necessarily necessitated a mutual exchange within our well- trade system. The expansion of BRICS to include oil-rigged countries such as
South Arabia, and Iran, gradually
reduces the dependency and the power on the US dollar globally and its dominance.
That in itself presents an opportunity for the dollarisation model or aspect. Hon members, given South Africa’s current energy crisis and the need for foreign direct investment to stimulate growth and expanded BRICS will be part of the solution to some of South Africa’s current political and economic challenges. We must be able to enhance and foster these partnerships. We owe it to the future generation to make BRICS partnership work, and we owe it to the African continent to share in the in the ideas of a BRICAF where all the ... [Interjections.] ... African nations will be part of the progressive nations. Thank you. [Time expired.]
Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon Chair, the Parliamentary BRICS Forum was well organised by our parliamentary staff, and Al Jama-Ah wishes to thank them for a job well done. I assisted the Speaker and the Council of the Deputy President to welcome the delegation of Members of Parliament of Iran and Egypt at the airport, and I was on standby to welcome the Members of Parliament of the manganese of Saudi Arabia. The BRICS partnership is now becoming the voice of the streets, and not just President. There is a need for BRICS like never before where voices on the streets are heard. Humanity has lost passed voices it was once proud of.
Countries like America, the United Kingdom, Germany, France and others, no longer qualifies to be part of the civilised world. They are now seen as the worst of the mankind after their position on avenging Gaza out on the heels of the atrocities on Rwanda and Russia. No one wants to be an American and Englishman or German or even a French. The Presidents of these countries are mister vampires, a term calling by one of the tiers of our portfolio committees. They are founders of BRICS like India that also shares its fine to kill the 30 000 women and children in Gaza by Christmas like the most reverent Archbishop of the Anglican Church predicted. The BRICS partnership must give hope to the world, and I look
forward to its first convention, providing for full employment of people living in BRICS countries.
This is also Al Jama-Ah’s election manifesto for South Africa in 2024 elections. South Africa must take the lead for full employment, with an additional work of the International Labour Organisation, ILO, Convention, for decent work, when President Mandela got the first annual award and Winnie Mandela the year after. BRICS is the hope of the streets in South Africa and the streets of its member countries. Al Jama- Ah looks forward to the BRICS Convention on full employment with decent work.
The next generation’s jobs and new revenue streams is one of the future hopes with the help of BRICS, then of course, we’re looking forward to a BRICS Convention and tax justice. It cannot be that 50% of South African Gross Domestic Product, GDP, is lost through illicit financial flows, and now, through manipulation of the of the rent. Thank you very much, hon House Chair, and once again, thank you to the parliamentary team for organising the parliamentary BRICS Forum in Johannesburg.
Mr D W BRYANT: In September last year, a 22-year-old Iranian woman, Jina Amini, died while in police custody in Tehran. She had reportedly been arrested by state police for wearing the improper hijab. There was widespread outrage to her death and in response, demonstrations took place across Iran. The Iranian government clamped down on these demonstrations with brutal violence, and at least 476 people were reportedly killed, including many women and children. Iran has been roundly condemned by many countries across the globe for its leaders’ retrogressive approach to the rights of women and girls and its brutal clampdowns on these largely peaceful demonstrations. Yet this ANC government has seen it fit to roll out ... [Interjections.]
Mr W F FABER: Hon House Chair, I’m sorry for interrupting my own member that 65 ... [Inaudible.] ... members ... [Inaudible.] ... and drown the speaker and the ANC members are drowning my speaker instead of just ... [Inaudible.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you, hon member. We request members not to drown the speaker, either side. Proceed, hon Bryant.
Mr D W BRYANT: Yet this ANC government has seen it fit to roll out the red carpet and welcome the leaders of Iran into Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa, Brics, with broad smiles and open arms. This is the same ANC that professes to be very serious about upholding human rights and dealing with gender-based violence. Referring to Iran as progressive is absurd.
Attending the conference, the Iranian Speaker delivered a vitriolic rant against the West and North Atlantic Treaty Organization, Nato, while the ANC hosts smiled and applauded deferentially. Not everyone was as enthusiastic about attending the conference though. The ANC’s favourite comrades in arms, Vladimir Putin’s Russian delegation, we’ve heard going tribute to from other members today as well, failed to even turn up in person, choosing instead at the last minute to participate via video call. To be fair, they didn’t miss much. Apart from the disproportionately large South African ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Order! Order, hon members! Hon members, hon members, please do not drown the speaker.
Mr D W BRYANT: To be fair, they didn’t miss much. Apart from the disproportionately large South African delegation of Members of Parliament, MPs, and officials, the Brics sessions were poorly attended and lacked any real debate or substantial discussion on key issues. Large swathes of seats, reserved for international delegations remained empty for most of the conference and this trend carried over to the extravagant gala dinner, which was just as poorly attended. It was clear that the ANC’s bad timekeeping, and haphazard organisation had not gone unnoticed, and some delegates were visibly annoyed. The ANC really seemed determined to cement South Africa’s spot as the junior partner in Brics and if the response from the other delegations was anything to go by, they certainly achieved their goal.
However, we have to ask, why is the ANC putting us through all this pomp, pageantry and mutual backslapping in the first place. In recent years, roughly 77% of foreign direct investment into South Africa has not come from Russia, Iran or Saudi Arabia but from three important western markets. These are countries that actually share our constitutional values and are committed to upholding the rights of all people, especially women and children. Why then is the ANC making such a huge effort to ingratiate South Africa into this expanded
Brics club, whatever sport, Bric, Bric, Bric, and embracing new entrants with such dubious backgrounds?
We also have to ask whether the ANC is as enthusiastic as others in Brics about de-dollarisation and creating a common Brics currency. This idea has been described as, and I quote: “ridiculous” by the man who first coined the term “Brics” international economist Jim O’Neil. He, along with many others, believes that proposal is purely symbolic and will never get off the ground. Lots of talk without any real substance which pretty much summed up the entire event.
Hopefully South Africans are not made to endure or to pay for this colossal waste of time and money ever again. Thank you.
Mr B M HADEBE: House Chair, the FF Plus and DA are complaining about the inclusion of Iran, yet they are supporting Israel.
This is hypocrisy of the highest order. But we know that when people stand up, imperialism trembles. And right now, the DA players are trembling. They are afraid to condemn Israel because he who feeds you controls you.
Hon Chair, allow me to premise my input with Thomas sankara when he said the following and I quote:
May my eyes never see, and my feet never take me to a society where half of the people are held in silent. I hear the roar of women’s silence.
We are participating in this debate at the time when signs of hope are starting to emerge in the Middle East to bring an end to a deadly war on Gaza. We are hopeful that the aggression will stop. That the children of Gaza will enjoy their time under the sky and be free to play once again in the streets and enjoy their youth.
The people of Africa we have set ourselves an agenda to build the Africa we want. The AU Agenda 2063 is Africa’s blueprint and master plan for transforming Africa into a global powerhouse for the future. It is the continents strategic framework that aims to deliver on its goal for inclusive and sustainable development and is a concrete manifestation of the pan African drive for unity, self-determination, freedom, progress and collective prosperity pursued under the pan Africanism and African renaissance.
House Chair, in this regard, the people of Africa are advancing and integrated prosperous, peaceful Africa, driven by its own citizens representing a dynamic force in the
international arena. Allow me to once again use Thomas Sankara ‘s words when he said, and I quote:
We must learn to live an African way. It’s the only way to live in freedom and with dignity.
The advancement of African Agenda appreciates that as Africans we will develop partnership with other countries of the world and further advance our agenda within the multilateral forum which affirms the centrality of BRICS Parliamentary Forum through Parliament diplomacy. We aim to enhance our strategic partnership for the benefit of our people, promoting peace and more representative and fairer international order, and reinvigorating and reformed multilateral system. Sustainable development and inclusive growth.
These critical commitments by BRICS Parliamentary Forum require that, as legislators, we should ensure that we localize the agreements that were reached by BRICS nations. This means that our policy direction should be aligned to what the BRICS nations agreed on in practical ways through implementation. We are all in agreement that multilateralism, especially in the context of the United Nation, UN, is under
serious spotlight, more so in the face of ongoing wars on the continent, the Middle East and East Europe.
The people of the world are starting to ask questions about the ability of the UN to secure international peace and stability. This calls on us to seriously investigate the architects of the UN system, in particular, the UN Security Council, with the representation and the veto rights. The veto rights has been a tool that is used by powerful nation to advance their interests and thus frustrate the international efforts to secure international peace through a adjust and a fairer means.
BRICS Parliamentary Forum should spare no efforts in advancing multilateralism and the reforms of the international forum to reflect the realities of the modern-day international system.
As we have said that the developing countries are facing socio-economic challenges, it is important that BRICS countries should work together for mutual accelerated growth. This is a critical more so in the aftermath of the COVID-19 that has negatively affected the economies of the most developing country. For our part, we should ensure that we advance African Agenda within the BRICS countries in a mutual
beneficial way. There are some amongst the country and elsewhere in the world who argues about what they believe is inconsistency of South Africa in the execution of our foreign policy. Their argument is far from the truth.
As a country, we have always been consistent with our foreign policy principle. We have always maintained that international disputes should be resolved within multilateral system in a peaceful manner. We have always called for countries at war to restore and to resort to negotiations to resolve their disputes. This call is consistent with our history of having taken the route of negotiation to end the barbaric apartheid regime.
The policy position of the ANC as it relates to Palestine is documented. In our policy documents, we have been consistent in our solidarity with the people of Palestine. As Madiba puts it and I quote:
Our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the people of Palestine.
This has been the consistent call on our policy position on the matter of Palestine. Therefore, anyone who argues that we
speak on both sides of our mouth on foreign policy should take some time to learn our foreign policy and internalize them. We remain committed to the advancement of South-to-South agenda and in the international forum. I thank you.
Debate concluded.
CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR PERMISSION IN TERMS OF RULE 286(4)(C) TO INQUIRE INTO AMENDING OTHER PROVISIONS OF NATIONAL YOUTH DEVELOPMENT AGENCY ACT, 2008 (ACT NO 54 OF 2008) (NATIONAL ASSEMBLY – SEC 75) (INTERIM REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES ON NATIONAL YOUTH DEVELOPMENT AGENCY AMENDMENT BILL
There was no debate.
Permission granted to the Portfolio Committee on Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities to inquire into amending other provisions of National Youth Development Agency Act, 2008 (Act No 54 of 2008) in terms of Rule 286(4)(b).
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON WATER AND SANITATION
There was no debate.
The Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic Alliance, Inkatha Freedom Party, Freedom Front Plus, National Freedom Party, Al Jama-ah and African National Congress.
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Report accordingly.
Declarations of Vote:
Mr B C GOLDING: Chairperson, we find ourselves in a very interesting position, today. On the one hand, we today consider a report that claims that the department has achieved 92% of its strategic targets; on the other hand, we have the lived realities of South Africans, as taps increasingly go dry. The discrepancy questions the validity of the report itself. To start, 71% of the original bulk infrastructure projects face delays, due to poor planning, which has resulted in a ballooning budget cost of R9,4 billion.
However, this has contributed to exacerbating an already significant maintenance backlog. National Treasury recommends that we spend 8% of our budget on fixing maintenance. The department has only allocated 2%, making the situation vastly worse. The growing backlog in maintenance and refurbishment has reached an enormous R36 billion, of which the department has only decided to spend R553 million to resolve it, making the gap larger and larger.
This is only a fraction of the recommended and frankly, needed money that we need to turn this around. So, it should be, as no surprise, that 42% of our bulk water infrastructure is deemed to be in poor condition. This then goes on to say that the challenges have resulted in water losses increasing by 4%, totalling 1 500 megalitres per day, costing R18,9 billion per annum, which costs us, in terms of potential revenue,
R29,7 billion. This not only impacts the financial health of our department, but quite frankly, it puts question onto the entire strategy that we are handling in this situation.
Considering the continued failure to prioritise this issue and failure to recommend significantly focused steps to combat this water crisis, the DA will not be in a position to support this item. Thank you.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): I now
recognise the EFF. EFF! Hon members, we shall pass and we are not coming back.
Ms S A BUTHELEZI: Chairperson, we understand that environmental and socioeconomic factors, such as climate change and urbanisation certainly play a role in exacerbating our country’s water crisis, however, we need to call a spade a spade. At the core of our water crisis is the government’s lack of will to address our country’s ageing and dilapidated water infrastructure.
Last year, the Auditor-General of South Africa, AGSA, stated that the lack of water infrastructure maintenance had contributed to avoidable water losses and affected the reliable delivery of water. Once again, this year, the AGSA raised ...
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon Radebe and hon member, please. Just sit, don’t do it.
Ms S A BUTHELEZI: Once again, this year, the AGSA raised concerns regarding the fact that the department only spent 2,13% of the total infrastructure assets balance on repair and
maintenance work, which is far below the National Treasury’s prescribed 80% norms and standards for maintenance.
There is a blatant display of apathy regarding the implementation of an action plan to address root cause issues such as infrastructure maintenance, by the co-ordinating departments and entities under the leadership of the Department of Water and Sanitation. This happened to such an extent that the committee has to repeat some of the recommendations made in the previous financial year. This shows a clear lack of progress.
South Africans deserve better treatment than this and their needs deserve to be prioritised. Therefore, we call upon the Department of Water and Sanitation to address the fragile water infrastructure and while doing so, to provide the committee with regular progress reports. The IFP accepts the report. Thank you.
Afrikaans:
Mnr P MEY: Voorsitter, die VF Plus waarsku al sedert 2019 dat mense in Suid-Afrika gaan sterf ...
Ms R M MOHLALA: Chairperson.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Is it a point of order?
Ms R M MOHLALA: No, it is not a point of order. It is the member of the EFF. My network was off.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon member, thank you very much informing us you were delayed. We have gone past that, and I did indicate you are not coming back.
Ms R M MOHLALA: Chairperson, my microphone was off. I was trying to unmute myself and I did not even hear. It was a network problem. Can I please come in.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Okay, your point is taken. I have made a Ruling. We shall proceed, hon member. Thank you.
Ms R M MOHLALA: Chairperson, can I please come. It was a network problem.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): ICT, can you
help me and mute the hon member. ICT, mute the hon member. May we proceed.
Afrikaans:
Mnr P MEY: Die VF Plus waarsku al sedert 2019 dat mense in Suid-Afrika gaan sterf, as gevolg van honger en dors. Die waterkrisis in Suid-Afrika neem by die dag toe, maar die ANC- regering doen niks, om dit te verhoed nie. In baie gevalle is daar genoeg water in die opgaardamme, maar geen water in die krane nie.
Die oorsaak is die vervale infrastruktuur, wat nie behoorlik instand gehou is nie. Die toepassing van regstellende aksie is die groot oorsaak van die verval. Kundiges verlaat die land, opsoek na groener weivelde, terwyl ander na die privaatsektor uitwyd. Projekte sloer jare om afgehandel te word. Die werk aan die Clanwilliamdam duur al langer as sewe jaar en dis nog ver van voltooiing.
Daar is ook nie behoorlike beplanning vir die bou van opgaardamme nie, dit terwyl die bevolkingsgroei met een miljoen per jaar toeneem. Munisipaliteite het nie meer die nodige kundigheid nie en maak van privaatkontrakteurs gebruik, wat nie die stelsel behoorlik verstaan nie.
Ek het die Port Eliabeth lughawe Sondagoggend besoek en met skok verneem dt daar geen water beskikbaar is nie. Alle
toilette was buite werking. Indien die Nelson Mandela Metro nie tydens die droogte voosien is van water vanaf die Oranjerivier nie, sou ons geen water gehad het nie.
Dit het weereens die belangrikheid van die Nooitgedacht Water en Suiweringwerke in die metro, as Fase 3 beklemtoon, wat na ’n lang gesloer net beteyds voltooi is. Die tragedie is dat daar nog nie eens met die beplanning van Fase 4 begin is nie.
In Limpopo is Polokwane en verskeie ander dorpe op die stadium sonder water. Jy moet maar van vragmotors gebruik maak, om die water te versprei. Ander dorpe dwarsoor Suid-Afrika sit met dieselfde probleem en in die meeste gevalle, vind rioolstorting ook plaas. Ek dank u.
Mrs E N NTLANGWINI: On a point of order, House Chair.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Is your hand up, ma’am? Can I be assisted with that? The front table will assist me. Okay, your hand is not up. Never mind. You may speak because it’s a point of order. Over to you, hon Natasha.
Mrs E N NTLANGWINI: Thank you very much, House Chair. House Chair, I just like to apologise because earlier on my member
wanted to speak, but her mic was muted, and she alluded this this to you. Can you please just give her a chance since there are no other parties making declarations? I’m pleading to you, hon Mina.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Okay. Thank you very much, hon Natasha. We really and honestly sympathise with the rationale. However, I have made a ruling, and I can't then overwrite my own ruling. We shall proceed on that note.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: House Chairperson, the NFP will support the report tabled here today, but we want to raise a few concerns that we have. First of all being, the state of the infrastructure countrywide leaves a lot to be desired. Now we’ve allowed it over a period of time to be in a state of disrepair to such an extent that a lot of these infrastructures cannot be repaired anymore, which means you’re going to have to put new infrastructure.
If you take Ethekwini municipality, number one, where I was a councillor, I remember that our water loss was sitting at about 27%. It’s now sitting at about 56%. So, at any given time, more than half your water has been lost. Now this particular department, we’ve had a lot of problems with them.
They’ve always got acting this manager and acting that manager. However, I think the problem escalated to the extent that I think it’s going to take a lot more than just capacity and money to be able to solve this.
If you take Kwazulu-Natal, some of these municipalities there
... and that is why I always raise the concern about KwaZulu- Natal, very little or no development has taken place in KwaZulu-Natal. People continue, up to this very day, 30 years into democracy, walking six and eight kilometres just to get some water. But political parties come into this House and brag but can’t even provide decent water. I’m proud to say that when my former leader, Zanele kaMagwaza-Msibi was here, she did everything in her power to improve the quality of life of people in Zululand particularly. And that is why she earns such a reputation as a one for service provider.
The NFP will support this report but given the fact that the state and conditions under which people live, particularly in Kwazulu-Natal and money is being made to tankers. Water tankers where the corruption is coming. They give water tanker contracts to their friends. They get kickbacks from them, sustain themselves, and that is why there’s so much of
corruption and assassinations in KwaZulu-Natal. The NFP supports this report. Thank you.
Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chair, Al Jama-Ah support this report. We cannot understand how the FF Plus, after preparing for South Africans, especially in the rural areas, to die of thirst, they now raise these concerns. They are responsible that we are in the water mess that we are now in. The Minister of Water Affairs is our new champion. We must support him, and Al Jama-Ah is doing its best to try and assist to get the Umzimvubu dam project near ... [Inaudible.] ... going because that will provide water for 1 million people in the former Transkei. They were the first to fight for our freedom, and the last to get water in their taps. Thank you very much, hon House Chair.
Sesotho:
Mof G K TSEKE: Modulasetulo, mmuso wa demokerasi o ikemiseditse ho phethahatsa tokelo ya Molaotheo ya metsi a hlwekileng a nowang le bohlweki bakeng sa batho ba habo rona.
English:
The Department of Water and Sanitation and its entities have recorded improved audit outcomes. The department TCTA, which
is Trans Caledon Tunnel Authority and two catchment management agencies have achieved an unqualified audit opinion with findings for the year under review, while the Water Research Commission continued with a clean audit opinion.
Hon members, the Department of Water and Sanitation has been implementing more than 100 multiyear projects and at least 11 of these projects have been completed. These regional bulk infrastructure projects, as implemented by the department, have contributed to the creation of at least 872 job opportunities for locals in the area where the projects are taking place. There are socio economic spinoffs for the receiving communities, not only through job creation but also through local SMMEs subcontracting from the main contractor.
Hon members, the Department of Water and Sanitation is also implementing various construction projects for new infrastructure and the rehabilitation of existing water sanitation infrastructure through the grants transferred to various water services authorities. A total of 379 projects were under construction with 102 projects being completed.
We further welcome the commitment of the department to the transformation of the water sector. The department has
allocated a percentage of its procurement spending to black- owned Small, Micro and Medium Enterprises. Furthermore, the department contributed to job creation by filling more than 800 vacancies in the year under review, which is quite significant for a single department to undertake in a single year.
We must confirm that there is a political will in this department to implement the mandate as given by the electorates. There is stability within the administration as compared to previous years. There is a political stability in all the water boards as implementing agencies. Thank you. The ANC supports this BRRR.
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS AND DIGITAL TECHNOLOGIES.
The ACTING CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY (Mr B A RADEBE):
House Chairperson, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party that the report be adopted.
Declaration(s) of vote:
Ms N W A MAZZONE: House Chairperson, the department is set to have achieved 70% of its targets. Immense deterioration has occurred this year. SA Post Office, SAPO, was provisionally liquidated in February and its debt to creditors has ballooned to R9 billion. While liquidated SAPO still received
R2,4 billion from National Treasure.
Before COVID-19, there were 1300 SAPO branches, following the business rescue process, only 600 will remain. Before business rescue and immense job loss already occurred. SAPO had around 11,000 employees, after this round, 5000 employees will remain.
The public broadcaster reported a R1,1 billion loss this year, having not turned a profit in more than a decade. It obtained a disclaimer audit qualification. It owes Syntech
R745 million. Its deterioration not only threatens itself, but other entities as well.
The post bank reported a R2 billion loss. Also, it received the disclaimer audit opinion. The Auditor-general, AG, cited that it remains vulnerable to cyber breaches, and these have seen an increase in fraud.
The Reserve Bank stated in 2021 that unless this is resolved, the post bank will be removed from the national payment system. This puts its banking license at risk and makes a joke out of the idea of a state bank.
This is not a healthy department. It is sucking the fiscus dry and we cannot support this report. Thank you, House Chairperson.
Mr S TAMBO: House Chairperson, the Budgetary Review Report of the Portfolio Committee and Communications and Digital technologies, reveals to South Africa a department, characterized by impunity, corruption, and financial mismanagement and the lack of direction in the majority of entities.
Key entities such as the post bank, the SA Broadcasting Corporation, SABC, and SA Post Office, SAPO, have registered massive revenue losses. The continued cry of the SABC failing
to generate revenue because it’s not developing compelling content, is laziness we must no longer accept.
And we also disagree that the SABC ought to be commended for securing sub licensing rights to the most recent major sporting events, meaning it has effectively surrendered itself to Multichoice.
There is a joint failure when it comes to the SABC and the broadcasting regulator, Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, ICASA, which has allowed the public broadcaster to pull it into insignificance to the benefit of private broadcasters.
The public broadcasters in a financial freefall, reporting a 1,1 billion loss for the year 2022-23. Regular expenditure amounted to 34,2 million at the SABC and this is all while the buildings and facilities of the SABC are not maintained.
When it comes to SAPO, it keeps getting worse. There’s continuous fraud related to grant payment systems at SAPO as well as the post bank, and this results in constant incurring of losses by both of these entities. The SAPO of course has
been provisionally liquidated, 48% SAPO offices have been closed and its massive debt to its creditors.
We all know that the post bank is not living up to the example of being a model of what a state bank would be like in South Africa. And has already recorded irregular expenditure amounting to 165 million and wasteful expenditure amounting to 611,000 during this reporting year.
We all know that even in 2021, 89,5 million worth of fraud occurred at the post bank. However, only five employees were dismissed, which means there’s a lack of consequence management in that entity.
The apartment is in disarray. There’s no consequent management for irregular expenditure and mismanagement of funds, and if we don’t make an intervention in 2024, the people of South Africa are going to result in a communication space that has no proper department to oversee it. The EFF does not support the budget report. Thank you, House Chairperson.
Mr W W WESSELS: House Chairperson, this department and its entities are in disarray, and the only way to actually solve
the situation is to get rid of this department. It serves no function. And its entity should be privatized.
The post bank is proof that a state bank won’t work and is just a bottomless pit for taxpayers’ money. This department and its entities prove that the ANC are not in any way governing responsibly and we should get rid of the governing party too.
Get the entities which should serve the South Africans out there, such as the post office function. But with this government, the only way is to privatize. And to get rid of these bottomless pits of taxpayers’ money. The FF Plus does not support this ... [Inaudible.] Thank you, House Chairperson.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon Van der Merwe, my apologies for that. Over to you, ma’am.
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Thank you very much, hon House Chairperson. I will read this declaration by the hon Majozi.
House Chairperson, the IFP notes with concern that the entities of this department continue to struggle. Each year
the SABC and the Post Office deplete public funds but present little to no tangible improvement in their state or function. This creates an undesirable situation when the bulk of this department’s budget is set aside to rescue ailing entities rather than to cultivate innovation.
As the world reaps the benefits of the fourth industrial revolution, South Africa is yet to work towards achieving an inclusive and competitive economy and a digitally enabled society that effectively bridges the gap between the rich and the poor. This means that we are lagging behind our counterparts when it comes to artificial intelligence (AI) despite the prestige and skills we can contribute to this field globally.
I would also like to point out the ignorance or perhaps the hypocrisy of a government that wishes to have what it calls a digitally transformed economy and society, but still requires physical and not digital delivery of applications to some of its departments. Moreover, it’s the continuous struggles at the SABC and again the report of that R1 billion loss, and the crisis at the Post Office which negatively affects our grant recipients. It’s a crisis that we can no longer accept.
The IFP accepts this report, Chairperson. I thank you.
Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Al Jama-Ah supports the report. We also feel that we need a state bank. We are after the manipulation of our banks with regard to the rand and the stealing of our money and taxes and trying to make the South African government ungovernable because it’s a “black” government. So, there is a need for a state bank so that we can prevent regime change and prevent the captains of the industry to assist designers and America to have regime change. They must wait for the elections next year. Thank you very much, hon House Chair.
Mr L E MOLALA: In staying true to our commitment of bridging the digital divide and ensuring that we reach 80% of internet connectivity to the vast majority of the population of our country by the end of next year – 2024-25 financial period - the department has completed phase 1 of SA Connect project which saw 970 government facilities being connected and maintained. These include clinics, rural schools and community halls.
The project is now undertaking phase 2. We welcome that an allocation of R1,1 billion has been made for the 2023-24
financial period, as well as R1,9 billion for the 2024-25 financial period. The SA Connect project has been greatly beneficial to our people. The people of Mount Ayliff will attest to the fact that the Sentech tower situated at Simakamaka Mountain provides a clear line of internet connectivity to four surrounding villages. It has also provided employment opportunities to a total of 120 skilled professionals and a semi-skilled labour force and contributed immensely to the general economic upliftment.
Through the work of this government, households can now get unlimited access to the internet to the tune of R249 per month and access data for as low as R5 per Gig for a day. This gradual decrease in data cost responds to the outcry of the reduction of data costs in our country. However, we remain concerned with the slow progress in the Broadcast Digital Migration project, BDM, and the slow turnaround, as well as the mammoth challenges that are confronting some of our entities such as the SABC and the SA Post Office.
We want to commend the department and the portfolio committee for processing the SAPO Amendment Bill, the SA Postbank Limited Amendment Bill, SA Post Office SOC Limited Amendment Bill so as to effect the necessary changes that will augment
the work of this organisation so that they can serve our communities better.
The ANC supports the report.
Question put.
Agreed to.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): The secretary will read the Fifth Order of the day. [Interjections.]
Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, you asked ... Please just note the
... [Interjections.]
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): No, I have
gone past that unfortunately.
You may proceed, secretary. [Interjections.]
Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, sorry. You have to ask if anyone opposes. You did not ask, Chair. [Interjections.]
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon members, no. Hon Tseki, if I may. The Chair has to listen to the member and also navigate with the member – that yes indeed, the Chair did ask. She looked here in House, and there was no indication. The Chair has now called on the Fifth Order of the day, and we shall proceed.
Thank you very much.
Mr S TAMBO: On a point of order, Chair: You can’t just look at the House. We are here on the platform. How do you know if we are objecting or not? We objected in our declaration. How do you do that? [Interjections.]
Mr W W WESSELS: Yes, Chairperson. [Interjections.]
Mr S TAMBO: There is a national platform here. [Interjections.]
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Okay. Thank you very much. Your points are noted. You should have raised your hands. There is a front Table that assists the Chair.
There were no hands, and I shall proceed. Thank you so much.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS AND DIGITAL TECHNOLOGIES
— GOVERNMENT COMMUNICATION AND INFORMATION SYSTEM
There was no debate.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon members, before we proceed, I deliberately call parties for declaration twice. It might be very boring, but I have to do that. The reason is for whoever might have missed the first call. In terms of objections, I call them ones, and that is an order. I cannot change it and I’m not going to change it now and have another Rule. But as for the members who might have muted or unmuted themselves unaware, that one is okay.
Secondly, in the front on the Table there are two gentlemen and a lady that assist the Chair to indicate if there are any hands up on the platform. If there is no indication the Chair can’t second guess for that.
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House
Chairperson, I move:
That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Sesotho:
Mof K L KHAKHAU: Ke a leboha, Modulasetulo.
English:
The DA notes that the Government Communication and Information System obtained a clean audit outcome which is an improvement from the previous year. We also welcome the Auditor-General’s, AG’s, emphasis that there is a need for consistent review and monitoring of internal controls by this entity in order to sustain the clean administrative systems.
According to the report the Government Communication and Information System, GCIS, will have to operate with R8 million cut in their budget for the next financial year. This is because the National Treasury faces competing priorities that are placing a burden on the national fiscus. This is really unfortunate especially considering that GCIS has achieved 97% of its target against the predetermined objectives.
To maintain financially sound activities at the entity the DA advises that this entity must exercise discretion and avoid unnecessary expenses especially going into the national and provincial elections. We know that the governing party would
want to abuse this entity and the Luthuli House will try and use the presidential events as campaign activities so as to optimise the GCIS. We call on the GCIS to start ditching any events where they are invited by the Presidency to cover the President kissing babies, cutting ribbons or opening single taps. Even avoid where he is delivering potentially artificial intelligence, AI, generated speeches.
The DA calls on Minister Gungubele to prioritise the appointment of the CEO of the GCIS and the Media Development and Diversity Agency, MDDA.
Sesotho:
Ke a leboha.
Mr S TAMBO: House Chairperson, the Government Communication and Information System is not facing a fate similar to the doom confronting the Department of Communications as a whole. Our greater concern in this report is that it reflects the complete collapse of support for community media, continued downward trajectory of budget allocations due to some nebulas other priorities by the Treasury and a lack of guidance by senior officials in the department and how to sustain and create stronger local community media.
The director-general is in absence basically absconding from the duties assigned to that office. There is as planned
R8 million decrease in the budget for next year, there’s been a delay in the appointment of a CEO at the MDDA despite interviews having been done there has been a large excellence of staff at the MDDA as well especially in the finance division, meaning financial support for community media which would be critical as we heard to the most important elections in 2024 is, under threat. This shows that there’s no regard to provide a competent GCIS as local community media as GCIS is going to be turned into a political tool and weapon to campaign for the ANC president. We want to caution the GCIS not to go and cover the ANC president in his inspections of potholes and opening of taps and try to portray those as government initiatives. The EFF rejects this report. Thank uoi.
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: House Chairperson, I am again making inputs on behalf of the hon Majozi. This department has an obligation to communicate government programmes and it is so- called good news through various platforms, which is almost an impossible task given the government’s many failures such as load shedding, crime, corruption, joblessness and just general helplessness and mismanagement. Moreover, we remain concern
that government merely communicates but does not meaningfully engage with South Africans much to the detriments of our people in townships, villages and deep rural areas.
House Chairperson, this department needs to ensure that it fill all its funded vacancies and prioritise strong and meaningful collaborations with other departments to ensure a strengthened capacity. The IFP also remain concern with regard to plans to suspend R1 billion on government TV. The question we have to ask ourselves is, is our government going to spend our taxpayers’ money on trying to polish up its tarnished and tattered image ahead of an election? Will the proposed TV channel not be competing with the SABC which is already struggling, and it is expected to make another R1 billion loss? The GCIS must not be used as a political tool for the ANC ahead of these elections. Such madness cannot be allowed. I thank you, Chairperson.
Mr L E MOLALA: House Chair, the ANC commends the department for receiving a clean audit, unqualified without finding outcomes which is an improvement from the previous year. The department continues to play a critical role in empowering the citizens with timely accurate and accessible information and fostering cohesion and national patriotism. The co-ordination
of government communication remains important and we welcome the fact that the department has been making use of various platforms such as YouTube, Facebook and X to communicate government programmes and opportunities that our people can benefit from.
The following platforms continue to grow however we are also alive to the reality that not everyone in our country has access to internet or technological gadgets hence it remains important that Vuk’uzenzele continues to distribute its newspapers to communities in the far-flung parts of our country. This speaks to the essence of our government’s message that at all times we should ensure that we live no one behind. therefore, we welcome the department distributed
11,2 million copies of Vuk’uzenzele newspaper, published 23 online editions and 23 Braille editions over the past financial year.
That being said, we would like to equally register our concern on the regression of the MDDA. The MDDA received qualified audit opinion indicating a significant regression in the audit outcome relating to the financial statement and compliance with the laws and regulations. It is also with concern that we know the challenges that have been experienced by the
community radio stations which has resulted in some of them closing down due to the exorbitant signal distribution costs and lack of resources. The mandate of the MDDA to facilitate ownership, control, access to information and content production of the community media by historically disadvantaged communities ... [Time expired.] ... remains pivotal. Thew ANC supports the report.
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO- OPERATION
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chair, I
move that the motion be adopted.
Declaration of vote:
Mr M CHETTY: The Department of International Relations and Co- operation, Dirco, intends revising the African Renaissance Fund Act and establish a new organisation called the South
African Development Partnership Agency, SADPA. Though initially created to support African economies, it has been misused by the ANC, including the improper allocation of funds to Cuba. Fortunately, due to a High Court ruling, an additional R50 million of South African ratepayers’ money for Cuba was prevented from being squandered.
[Inaudible.] ... of SADPA raises concern about the potential for the ANC-led government to once again divert funds away from addressing the needs of impoverished South Africans to their struggle comrades.
This department cannot carry out its own mandate successfully, for example, the Auditor-General, AG, report, in spite of the department misleading the portfolio committee, was critical of the fact that the department were paying two ICT companies for the same scope of work - incurring fruitless and wasteful expenditure. The total irregular amount of this expenditure on this contract as of 31 March 2023 amounted to R569 million.
The failure to secure the basics in the upgrading of the ICT abroad led to the delays and highly embarrassing situation that our German embassy was issuing handwritten visas. The recent Supreme Court of Appeal judgement on the New York pilot
project further emphasised the lack of accountability by the department heads, citing that the standing committee unilaterally changed the scope of the tender from Dirco being the leaser to the owner. This report highly condemned the actions of both ...
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon member, one second. There is a hand on the virtual platform. Hon Papo, your hand is up?
Mr AH M PAPO: House Chair, I just wanted to plead with the member to take a question on his right-wing views?
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Okay. Hon
member, are you prepared to take a question?
Mr M CHETTY: House Chairperson, if the hon member wants to speak ... [Interjections.]
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): No, no, no ...
[Interjections.]
Mr M CHETTY: No, I am not.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Okay, can you stand up so that you can say it on the mic.
Mr M CHETTY: No, ma’am.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Thank you. But next time don’t just sit and then respond. Because I was asking you, I was expecting you to stand up. It can be highly appreciated to do that. You may proceed.
Mr M CHETTY: The failure to secure the basics in the upgrading of the ICT abroad led to the delays and highly embarrassing situation that our German embassy was issuing out handwritten visas. The Supreme Court of Appeal’s judgement on the New York pilot project also condemned the bid adjudication committee and the bid evaluation committee, stating that they were compromised in supporting the Gupta-linked tender for the
R180 million New York pilot project. Also, our ambassadors continue to embarrass the country on an international stage, and it is time that the appointments of ambassadors should be reviewed as a current system of cadre deployment isn’t assisting us.
The department has failed miserably in carrying out their mandates, yet they now have the audacity to overreach and engage with the scope of traditional leaders – a responsibility of Co-operative Governance and traditional Affairs, Cogta. It is clear that this is merely an election gimmick in the run up to next year’s 2024 national elections. This department’s incompetence knows no boundaries. The DA Does not support this report. I repeat, House Chair, we do not support the report in case you don’t register that.
Mr M K MONTWEDI: Hon House Chairperson, for a very long time we have been arguing that that our foreign policy must be anchored on the fundamental values of our own nation and not to be dictated to by the imperial west. Had we done this consistently over the past few decades, we could have not been part to killing of Colonel Muammar Gaddafi by the US and their dogs of war, NATO.
The EFF is, however, pleased with the recent posture when it comes to the foreign policy. On the US and NATO initiate initiated war between Ukraine and Russia, you correctly refused to condemn Russia for taking steps to defend the senseless expansion of NATO, even under extreme pressure from
the west, we refused to let this imperialist determine who our friends and enemies ought to be.
On the recent genocidal acts by Israel on Palestine, the country’s position is also rooted on the need for justice for Palestinian people. We have rightly condemned Israel’s US backed indiscriminate killing and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people in their own land. The motion will let in Parliament for the removal of the Israel Embassy and the cutting of the diplomatic ties with the apartheid state of Israel demonstrated that working in unison in pursuit of progress ideals can be done in the country. However, more still needs to be done. We need to pursue more progressive ideals in the African continent to empower the AU and regional structures such as the SADC, so that these structures are not merely toothless structure for the protection of rogue regimes. We are in support of the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report. Thank you, House Chairperson.
Mr M HLENGWA: The report under consideration states that both financial and non-financial performance by the department in the reporting year has been commendable, yet the same report reveals that the Auditor General, AG, raised a concern that there is a notable increase in the levels of irregular
expenditure in the department at R1,44 billion. It further reveals that the AG was unable to obtain sufficient appropriate audit evidence that disciplinary steps were taken against officials who had incurred irregular and fruitless and wasteful expenditure.
When it comes to our overseas missions, meant to represent the best South Africa has to offer, the report confirms what was revealed in recent oversight visits, which says dilapidated hardware is being used in the missions, and this results in slow operations or inability to perform certain functions.
Further, compliance with SCM prescripts remained a challenge for the department, mainly at our missions.
Underspending is highlighted as an issue across programmes, with initiatives such as the South African Development Partnership Agency that have taken almost 15 years to come to fruition. In addition, it appears that while the department cannot spend its full budget on authorised transactions, it also cannot follow the SCM processes meant to curtail unauthorised spending. Yet, despite all of this, the department is commended for managing to achieve 96% of the planned targets on its key programmes.
As the IFP we are concerned that the issues that I have mentioned, including billions in irregular expenditure, failing IT infrastructure, as well as lack of consequence management are viewed as commendable. The irony could not be more pronounced. While the department is receiving praise for achieving almost 100% of their targets, it is very clear that there is a deep disconnect between these targets and the department’s actual performance. Thank you.
Mr S N SWART: We have we have a declaration, Chair.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon Swart, you don't have a declaration. Thank you very much. That's what you're saying, or you'll make a declaration?
Mr S N SWART: No, Chair, my point was that we have a declaration. My apologies.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Okay, that’s fine. The hon Meshoe, I'm told that you are going to do the declaration?
Rev K R J MESHOE: Yes, ma'am. The ACDP is relieved ... [Interjections.] ...
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon Meshoe, before you proceed, I will appreciate if there is nobody that introduces you if you're going to speak, you just indicate then you will be afforded the opportunity. Thank you very much.
Rev K R J MESHOE: The ACDP is relieved to see the truths between – may I continue ma’am?
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Yes,
Moruti/Reverend, you may.
Rev K R J MESHOE: The ACDP is relieved to see the truths between Israel and Hamas that invaded their country and kidnapped more than 200 Israelis and some foreign nationals is holding. We welcome the release of some hostages, including South Africans.
It is now a known fact from various reports that there were many innocent people that were killed in the process and some women brutally raped. What was even more shameful was to see the wounded and bleeding victims being paraded in the streets, and some people celebrating.
I now want to appeal to the ANC to prevail upon Hamas, their close trusted friend to release all hostages and allow the Red Cross to visit and take note of the conditions under which they are kept, particularly that of the women and children.
I'm Israel ... [Inaudible.]
One of the challenges that this Committee of International Relations has been having for a few years now is the lack of transparency in the department. A case in point is the circumstances around the suspension of former director-general Mahoai from office. Until today, we don't have facts and we are speculating now. What the committee expected to happen was for action to be taken against Mr Mahoai’s predecessor after it became apparent that there has been some wrongdoing during his tenure as director-general, DG.
Now the question is, why has nothing been done? And, we want to know whether Mr Mahoai has become the fall guy or is he suffering now or has he been dismissed because of the ... [Time expired.]
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Chairperson, my colleague from the ACDP is trying to do a good job trying to mislead the people in this country as to what has happened. After you come to the
beautiful land of Palestine with its beautiful mediterranean ocean, you steal their land, you forcefully remove them, you blow up the hospitals, the clinics, you killed innocent babies and women, you flatten the houses. And he comes here because his life depends on a vote in this country which depends on dividing our people based on religion, and he comes to try and defend the barbaric state of the Zionist, Israel.
Now, let me start off by saying the NFP welcomes this unqualified audit opinion. Am I supposed to sit Chairperson?
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Please do. Hon Swart, is that a point of order?
Mr S N SWART: Yes, it is, House Chair. I rise on point 85 and I would like you to rule. The member is casting aspersions on the leader of the ACDP, Reverend Meshoe. He says you are doing this. You are doing this, which is a direct reference to Reverend Meshoe and I ask that you rule that he withdraws those aspersions against Reverend Meshoe. Thank you.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Okay. Hon
members, I would like to caution that you don't refer to any member of the House indirectly on directly, but it's a point
of debate, but we must just avoid doing such. You may proceed hon Shaik Emam.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon Chairperson, these are the very same people that want to support the very same people that claimed to have killed their own saviour, their own Lord, their own leader. And what would they do it for? Just for 30 silver coins. For what?
So, the DA, the IFP, the ACDP and the FF Plus are selling their souls for the very same 30 silver coins that their leader, their saviour, was killed for, which they brag about. So, there is 30 coins, I give it to you all. Take it and sell your souls. Sell your souls and sell your leader, your saviour, that you brag that is your saviour leader.
That is how disgusting you are, that you can't even respect your leader. Somebody that killed your leader, and you want to defend and protect those people. It is a shame! There's your
30 silver coins for what you have given your saviour away and that's exactly what you're doing in the state of Israel right now, that 30 coins is what you are worth. Thank you very much. The NFP supports this.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Order hon members, there is a point of order.
Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, with due respect. Our Constitution is very clear that we have freedom of religion in this country.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Okay, point taken and a point of debate.
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: House Chairperson, also, on a point of order. The hon Shaik Emam threw coins at us. You're not allowed to take props to the podium. You must ask for permission from the House Chairperson first and I think it's unparliamentary that he threw us with coins.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon van der Merwe – hon members, can you assist here, I can't hear the ... [Interjections.]
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: It took 30 coins to sell your leader.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): No, now
everybody. You are making it difficult for the Chair to make a
ruling because all of you are assisting and you are not helping the House to be in order.
Mr W T LETSIE: Hon Shaik Emam is correct.
Mr N SINGH: You are out of order to say intervene.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): No, hon
members. You know what we're going to do? We're going to mute all of those ones that have just raised their voice without being recognised until the end of the day if you continue doing that. Hon members, I take the point that has been raised by the hon van der Merwe.
Hon Shaik Emam, you know it better in terms of the rules that whatever object that you bring before the podium, you must seek permission from the Chair, and you didn't do that. I will request you to apologise for the coins because I'm advised that the coins are still on the floor. If you may? There's only one presiding Chair in this House.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Chairperson, I didn’t hear. They were making a noise as usual.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): The point I'm driving at - I'll leave aside the point of debate, right? You have brought objects to the podium and that object you threw on the floor is still there. The Chair is directing to apologise on that later on, on recess, on break. You are going to take your coins. Can you?
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Thank you very much Chairperson. I will pick up those coins because they gave the ... I apologise, Chair. Thank you.
Mr M NYHONTSO: The PAC has no declaration, but we support everything that Shaik Emam has done, including throwing of the coin. Thank you.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): We shall proceed, hon members. I recognise the ANC. While the ANC is moving towards the podium, I'll request the ANC at my right- hand side to use that chair like any other members that are using this chair side. Thank you very much. You may proceed hon member.
Mr S O R MAHUMAPELO: Chairperson, we want to commend the department for achieving an unqualified audit, 96% of its
targets have been reached. What we are going to request the Minister to do is to ensure that more focus is given to managing the missions of South Africa abroad.
The African Renaissance and International Cooperation Fund, ARF, Chairperson and we want to put it here unambiguously clear, the African Renaissance Fund, no amount of targeting of Cuba, an obstreperousity from the side of the DA is going to defocus the ANC from assisting Cuba following the process of our country of the law. Because we and Cuba won the struggle together because you came here and oppressed black people, you did not see black people as human here. So, nobody is going to separate us with Cuba.
We are going to work with them and assist them when necessary, following the law. Chairperson, we also want to commend the BRICS leadership for making sure that they convenience, they convened last week to condemn the actions that are taken by Netanyahu and his Cabinet on the Palestinian people, it is genocidal, it cannot be accepted.
We want to commend Egypt and other countries like Qatar who have heeded the call of working together under the auspices of
the United Nations to make sure that this passage for food assistance, humanitarian relief for the people of Palestine.
Setswana:
Ke a leboga Modulasetulo.
English:
We move for the adoption of the report. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Let me take this one, I’ll come back to you.
Question put.
Mr W F FABER: Chair, please note the objection of the DA.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I mentioned it as well hon Faber. You didn't hear me, sorry. Oh, no, maybe let me correct this. Hon members on the platform, it would be better if you allow your members that are in the House to do the objections, because we have a process of doing this. So, it become disturbing when you just shout from there when you have members here who can do it easily. Thank you very much. As we
proceed now, the report is agreed to. Can we now get the 7th order?
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, African Christian Democratic Party and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HUMAN SETTLEMENTS
There was no debate.
The ACTING CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY (Mr B A Radebe):
Chairperson, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party that the report be adopted. Thank you.
Declarations of Vote:
Mr L MPHITHI: House Chairperson, Human Settlements is one of the country’s most crucial frontline service delivery department has been destroyed for the 13 million South Africans still living in informal settlements. The suffering continues and we cannot be mistaken as to why it continues.
Despite the Human Settlements budget increasing by almost 8% from 2014-15 financial year to the 2021-22 financial years, the number of housing units build annually decreased from
94 000 to 28 000 during the same period, which is 70% reduction.
Although the budget increased the quality of units is decreasing with some units needing to be demolished for not meeting the minimum standard. The 2023 Human Settlements budget focused only 60 000 housing units being constructed annually over the next three years. If housing units continues to be constructed at that rate it would take 38 years to construct 2,3 million houses, which is just the backlog from 2019 and does not take into account the 180 000 units that are being added to the housing backlog each year.
The department continues to underperform in the delivery of the Breaking New Ground housing units, the Priority Development Areas, PDA’s programmes and informal settlements upgrading programmes. At this stage, it simply has no workable plan to deal with the challenge of construction mafias who continue to infringe in the right of citizens.
We further note the department has failed to adequately managed the beneficiary list. This comes as the DA has called numerous times for the fast-tracking of lifestyle audit initiative to root out corruption and bribery. To ensure consequence management for those who are involved in corruption and bribery, the department remains the hub for hoods brad in black, green and gold waiting anxiously for the housing projects to be announced eagerly rubbing their hands together salivating at the mouth at the prospects of another billion rand headed their way. A billion rand that will be divided up between incompetent cadres with little ... [Inaudible.] ... Thank you.
Mr E MTHETHWA: Chairperson, South Africa is on a prissy price of a housing disaster, and our leaders are fiddling while the country may explode any moment from now. There are currently over 2,5 families in need of housing. At the rate at which we are going, the number will grow every year while the capacity of the state to provide the housing needs of population diminishes each passing year.
In the next seven years, our population is expected to reach
65 million people and most of this growth will be in ready congested areas. At the moment, we have no plan for this
population explosion. We have not made a single investment towards resolving our population growth and housing need scenarios. Perhaps because we have no idea how to fix present crisis of housing in this country.
The state aided by conservatives’ civil society movements and racist municipal administrations such as the one in Cape Town resort to criminalising the desperation of our people for homes without ever providing solutions to the crisis faced by the majority of our people. To them being poor equates to being a criminal.
This housing crisis made worse by the fact that a large group of people are excluded from benefiting from government housing schemes because they earn more than required amount that would made them qualify for subsidies whilst not earning enough to qualify for bond housing. They don’t earn enough to buy their own homes too. So, this segment of the population is stuck and maybe required to rent into perpetuity. Linked to radical system is a crisis of farmworkers and farm dwellers. The EFF reject the report. [Time expired.]
Ms S A BUTHELEZI: Chairperson, first and foremost, the IFP would like to urge the Department of Human Settlements and its
entities to dedicate themselves to achieving a clean audit in the upcoming financial years. Achieving only 58% of self- imposed performance targets shows that there is a serious lack of planning and monitoring of projects, that the department will have to address.
We want to commend the Minister for urging the Special Investigating Unit to probe projects that are affected by poor performance, as contractors who are under-delivering or who abandon projects cannot be left without facing consequences.
With that in mind, we have to highlight the underperformance in the delivery of Breaking New Ground housing units and the informal settlements upgrading programme. The department must ensure that they always aim to make the best of the resources afforded to them, and underperformance in the provision of houses indicates that the resources are not being maximally utilised. Baring this in mind, the IFP would also like to focus the Minister’s attention on social housing agencies in KwaZulu-Natal that are deliberately evicting tenants that have fallen into arrears after COVID, considering that this is only happening in KwaZulu-Natal, we would like to ask for clarity on why only these people are being evicted and what measures the department has in place to address these practices?
In conclusion, hon Chairperson, ensuring that every South African has a roof over their head and a warm place to sleep should be at the top of the department’s priority list, it should not be something our people plead for year in and year out. The IFP accepts the report. I thank you.
Afrikaans:
Mnr P MEY: Voorsitter, die doel van die Departement van Menslike Nedersettings is om behoorlike en volhoubare behuising te verskaf. Dit is egter onmoontlik om die oprigting van plakkershutte te verhoed om rede verstedeliking die afgelope jare skerp toegeneem het.
’n Tweede probleem is natuurlik die invloei van mense uit Afrika, aangesien hulle op soek na werksgeleenthede in Suid- Afrika is. Die staat belê groot bedrae geld aan infrastruktuur en van die R232 miljard is slegs R4 miljard se projekte reeds voltooi.
The VF Plus sal egter graag wil sien dat daar meer geld vir laekostebehuising beskikbaar gestel moet word aangesien dit ’n groot rol in die opheffing van mense kan speel. Die plakkers plak op enige grond en verwag dat die munisipaliteit onmiddelik dienste moet verskaf. Dit gee aanleiding daartoe
dat die paaie gebrand word en mense laat by hul werk opdaag wat tot groot ekonomiese verliese lei.
Om die probleem op te los het die VF Plus in 2019 ’n versoek aan Minster Sisulu gerig om ’n opname oor die hoeveelheid staatsgrond in die metros te maak. Drie maande later kondig die Minister aan dat daar 14 000 hektaar staatsgrond beskikbaar is. Die grond moes van Landbou na Behuising ontkoppel word. Die verslag toon dat die Departement van Openbare Werke dit in ’n rekordtyd afgehandel het. Dit gee die geleentheid vir stadsbeplanners om vooruit te beplan en kan die onwettige besetting van grond voorkom word.
Ons sit ook met ’n ander probleem. Die bevolkingsaanwas in Suid-Afrika is hoër as ons ekonomiese groei en voorsien die VF Plus geen oplossing vir die plakkersprobleem in Suid-Afrika nie. Die meeste mense in die plakkershutte leef onder haglike omstandighede en ons wil almal sien dat die situasie moet verbeter. Ek dank u.
Mr B N HERRON: House Chair, South Africa has one of the largest and most ambitious public housing programmes in the world. However, our housing programmes are not working.
Firstly, it is simply not enough and secondly, the effect of
housing projects has been turned trench apartheid spatial divides that building housing and low-cost underdeveloped areas far from economic opportunities.
Good’s position is that city space services and resources should be used and allocated fairly with the provision of certain services weighted towards those who need them most. So, the numbers may seem impressive at first glance but they are actually misleading. The target-chasing approach to housing delivery in line with tight fiscal parameters has meant that the fundamental issue of eradicating apartheid segregation has been left behind. We are not creating human settlements but we are creating suburbs of poverty and we are entrenching poverty and exclusion.
In any event even after target-chasing approach has all but collapsed over the Medium-Term Statement Framework, MTSF, period from 2019 to date. Over the past four years we have delivered only 115 000 Breaking New Ground, BNG, houses being 48% of our target. We have delivered only 184 000 server sites, 77% of our target. Our Gap housing subsidy renamed from Financial Linked Individual Subsidy Programme, FLISP, to First Home Finance only reached 5 800 households across the entire country in the last financial year. We only managed to deliver
2 127 social housing units with our cumulative performance in the MTSF period, which a crucial special integration project reached only 54% of our target.
According to the Department of Monitoring and Evaluation, no informal settlements were upgraded to phase three and 0% of our MTSF target has been achieved over the past four years. As the Auditor-General noted the impact on the citizens is a lack of basic housing and lack of security of tenure which further impacts on the dignity of citizens and exacerbates the challenges of spatial planning that are plaguing the country such as social unrest and inequality ... [Time expired.] ...
In conclusion, Chair, there is an urgent need to reconfigure our public housing ... [Time expired.] ... Thank you.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Chairperson, let me start off by saying that thousands of houses are being demolished in Gaza as we speak here today. So, apartheid is not only alive in Palestine but also here in our own land. Whilst this department may not have performed very well achieving 27 of its 39 targets, let us look at apartheid what it was and where it is today.
Let me start off by what has happened in the City of Cape Town the other day. Your freedom has now been taken away. They have
already reimplemented apartheid. You can’t wear a Palestinian flag and walk in the City of Cape Town on anymore. You cannot wear a T-shirt and you are blaming the SA Police Service, it is not, but they got instructions from the City of Cape Town the law enforcement that were behind.
Number two, let me tell you, you are correct when you say that housing is crucial, but you didn’t understand that it was crucial when you underspent. Go and look at the latest report on how you have underspent on housing in this City of Cape Town. That is why more and more people are becoming homeless. Let me remind you of something else, a couple years ago you failed to spend your entire urban settlement development grant. You failed to do that, the City of Cape Town and you are a disgrace.
Let us go to KwaZulu-Natal. Did you know, Chairperson, that not a single family in KwaZulu-Natal under the Ingonyama Trust land owned their homes? They have no rights, they have no title deeds and they have absolutely nothing. So, what is the difference between that time and up to now ... [Interjections.] ...
IsiZulu:
Mnu M HLENGWA: Ayikho lento oyishoyo, wena. Ayikho leyonto.
English:
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: They have absolutely no rights. Those people are being misled into believing that they care about them ... [Interjections.] ... no, they don’t.
IsiZulu:
Mnu M HLENGWA: Ayikho leyonto.
English:
You are misleading the House.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: ... [Interjections.] ... if those people have the right and the ownership of their homes ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): ... don’t worry, proceed. I will rule on hon Hlengwa because he is wasting your time. I am giving you extra seconds ...
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: ... okay, the fact of the matter is that they have absolutely no ownership and rights and title deeds of them ... [Time expired.] ... It is controlled by a handful
of people. ... [Time expired.] ... So, don’t come up here and grandstand. The NFP supports this Report. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Hlengwa! Hon Hlengwa, what you did now is just out of order, you don’t do that.
Mr M HLENGWA: My apologies, House Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you.
Mr M A TSEKI: Chairperson, we support the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report of the department and its entities’ notable advances and success during the year under review. The department overall performed well under review by surpassing the previous years’ performance of 58% now at 69%. We gallop, Chairperson, as we move forward with the masses of our people. The department’s audit outcome has maintained an unqualified audit opinion with findings on compliance. We are encouraged by the steps taken by the department and its entities.
The DA, listen to this one, the ANC government has in this financial year under review acquired a state building in Cape Town against the wishes of the racist Democratic Alliance
government to convert them into social housing for the working class and the poor. This demonstrates the commitment to destroying apartheid spatial planning. Further, the department through its National Housing Finance Corporation managed to provide more than 5 800 for the first time home buyers who are earning between R3 000 and R29 000. This is a commitment that tomorrow will be better than today, today is better than yesterday. Chairperson, the African National Congress supports this Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report. We are saying, free, free Palestine! Free, free Palestine!
Motion agreed to.
Report accordingly adopted.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, I will now suspend proceedings until 14:00. Bells will be rung to alert members to the resumption of business. The business is now suspended. Thank you
BUSINESS SUSPENDED AT 12:26 AND RESUMED AT 14:08.
The SPEAKER: I can hear that discussion. Yes, there’ no meditation, medication yes. Hon members, before I deal with
the eighth order of the day, allow me, to read the following statement. Today I received a letter from the hon N F Shivambu informing my office that item nine on the order paper, titled, Consideration of Report of Joint Committee on Ethics and Members’ Interests on complaints against hon Nyiko Floyd Shivambu, a Member of Parliament, is before a court of law. Mr Shivambu is requesting that the matter be removed from the order paper.
A similar letter was received from his lawyers asking for the letter to be referred back to the committee for proper investigation. I’ve also received a letter from the legal representative of hon E D Peters, in respect of item eight on the order paper, titled, Consideration of Report of the Joint Committee on Ethics and Members’ Interests on complaints against hon E D Peters, a Member of Parliament, in her former role as the Minister of Transport. The demand was that the matter not to be considered today.
Hon members, I would like to state that these matters were agreed upon for programming by the National Assembly programming committee. In any event, there is no legal impediment currently to these matters being considered before the House today, and we will therefore proceed with business
as it appears on the order paper. That is where we are, hon members. The Secretary will then read the eighth order.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF JOINT COMMITTEE ON ETHICS AND MEMBERS’ INTERESTS ON COMPLAINTS AGAINST: HON DIPUO PETERS, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT, IN HER FORMER PORTFOLIO AS THE MINISTER OF TRANSPORT
The SPEAKER: I’m informed that there will be no declarations taken. This is also the case on the following item. Once we have adopted the reports on orders eight and nine, I will then issue the penalties imposed on the members concerned as recommended. I now recognise the hon Chief whip of the Majority Party. Deputy Chief Whip.
There was no debate.
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, I
move that the report be adopted.
Question put.
Report on complaints against hon Dipuo Peters, a Member of Parliament, in her former portfolio as Minister of Transport accordingly adopted. (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF JOINT COMMITTEE ON ETHICS AND MEMBERS’ INTERESTS ON COMPLAINTS AGAINST: HON NYIKO FLOYD SHIVAMBU, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT
There was no debate.
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, I
move that the report be adopted.
Question put.
Mr E MTHETHWA: We reject the adoption of the report, and may I correct the previous one, if you do allow?
The SPEAKER: It’s too late...
IsiXhosa:
... kaloku Tata.
English:
Take your seat. It’s too late, hon members. Take your seat.
Report on Complaints against: Honourable Nyiko Floyd Shivambu, a Member of Parliament, accordingly adopted (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
STATEMENT
The SPEAKER: Hon members, allow me to read the statement as follows. The charges of breaching the Code of Ethical Conduct and Disclosure of Members’ Interest for Assembly and Permanent Council Members of which hon Peters and hon Shivambu, respectively, have been found guilty of, is very serious. The committee did not, however, recommend that a reprimand be issued. So, there will be no reprimand. The committee found that hon Peters breached the code in three instances, where she failed to act in accordance with the public trust placed in her and to discharge her obligations, in terms of the Constitution.
The Assembly has agreed that for each instance, that the member be suspended from her seat in all parliamentary debates and sittings, and from committee meetings and committee related functions and operations for one term of the
parliamentary programme. The committee further recommended, and the House has agreed, that the suspension in respect of all three breaches will run concurrently during a term. The House will be informed of the implementation date of the sanction.
For the findings made by the committee that Hon Shivambu failed to comply with the requirements of the provisions for disclosing financial interest, the Assembly has agreed on the penalty of a reduction of nine days salary against the member. The House will be informed of the implementation date of the sanction. The hon members will appreciate that in terms of the rules, there isn’t anywhere where it determines where the sanction begins, so, I will inform the members when ... Thank you. We proceed then.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF JOINT COMMITTEE ON ETHICS AND MEMBERS’ INTERESTS ON CONTRAVENTION OF CODE OF ETHICAL CONDUCT AND DISCLOSURE OF MEMBERS’ INTERESTS: HON BHEKI CELE, A MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT, THE MINISTER OF POLICE
There was no debate.
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, I
move that the report be adopted.
Question put.
Report on Contravention of Code of Ethical conduct and disclosure of members’ interest, hon Bheki Cele, a Member of Parliament, the Minister of Police accordingly adopted.
(Statement)
The SPEAKER: Hon members, the House has now adopted the committee report concerning hon Cele, the Minister of Police.
The recommendation of the report agreed to by this House is that the member enter an apology in the House for his conduct towards Mr Ian Cameron, the Director of Community Safety at Action Society nonprofit organisation during a community meeting with the South African Police Service, SAPS, and the communities of Gugulethu and Nyanga in the Western Cape on 5 July 2022. I am informed that hon Cele is on an official business out of the country. Hon Cele will be called upon to enter his apology in due course.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF JOINT COMMITTEE ON ETHICS AND MEMBERS’ INTERESTS - NON-DISCLOSURES OF MEMBERS INTERESTS FOR 2022: CONTRAVENTION OF CODE OF ETHICAL CONDUCT AND DISCLOSURE OF MEMBERS’ INTERESTS.
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: I move that the
report be adopted.
Question put.
Report agreed to.
The SPEAKER: Hon members, the House has now adopted the committee report concerning hon Kubheka. Amongst other sanctions, the report recommends a reprimand for the member’s consent. You will recall that on this matter – just for context, hon members – there were three hon members under this. It was hon Kubheka, hon Kula and hon James. Hon Kula and hon James are no longer members of the National Assembly. So, a reprimand in the House will be issued to hon Kubheka. Now, a reprimand in this House is a public act aimed at ensuring that discipline is issued out fairly and transparently and applied consistently. I will now issue the reprimand to hon Kubheka.
Hon Kubheka, I am now aware that you are on the virtual platform. You will show your face. Hon member! Hon Kubheka, are you on the virtual platform? The hon member is not on the virtual platform. If the hon member ... [Interjections.]
She has not shown her face.
Hon member, I don’t want to be misled. The guidance I have received from the officers here before me – the Table office – is that the member - and in this instance, hon Kubheka - would have had to stand. If hon Kubheka is on the virtual platform, she would have to show her face. So, please. I don’t want a confusion. [Interjections.]
Ms N J KUBHEKA: I am here ... [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Kubheka, will you show your face on the screen or not?
Ms N J KUBHEKA: My screen doesn’t want to open, Madam Speaker. My humble apologies. But I am in.
The SPEAKER: I’m sorry, hon Kubheka. My humble apologies. Then you are not in the House today because you were informed that
you would be in the House and that you would be required to stand. I have since received the report that you have indicated that you would be on the screen. You did not indicate that you will be on the virtual platform and that your system will not allow you to show your face. In this instance, you are not in the House, hon member, for the purpose of your reprimand. [Interjections.]. Hon member, please go ahead.
Ms N J KUBHEKA: My humble apologies, hon Speaker. I’m still not feeling well. That is why I am not in the House. But I’m on ... [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party!
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Thank you, Madame
Speaker. The hon member was supposed to show her face on the screen. We didn’t get anything that says she is not well. So, we will make sure that the hon member appears before this House to do what she is expected to do. We apologise on behalf of the ANC. Thank you.
The SPEAKER: I thank you, hon Chief Whip. [Interjections.] Hon member, the matter is closed right now. [Interjections.]
Ms N J KUBHEKA: Thank you. But can I just clarify my ... [Interjections.] My camera ... [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Kubheka, you are not in this session right now. Please. Thank you very much, hon Kubheka. The hon Chief Whip has clarified the position. Thank you.
Ms N J KUBHEKA: Thank you, Madam Speaker.
DEBATE ON 16 DAYS OF ACTIVISM FOR NO VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN AND CHILDREN: THE ROLE OF MEN IN COMBATING GENDER-BASED VIOLENCE AND FEMICIDE.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES RESPONSIBLE FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT (Mr J H
Jeffrey): Madam Speaker, hon members, the 16 Days of Activism for No Violence Against Women and Children Campaign is the United Nations campaign, which takes place annually from the 25th of November, which is the International Day of no violence against women until the 10th of December, which is International Human Rights Day. Other commemorative days, such as World Aids Day and the International Day for Persons with Disabilities, also fall within this period. So, it’s an
international United Nations campaign and not something that is just taking place in South Africa.
The 16-day campaign forms part of the government’s comprehensive 365 Days of Activism to end Violence Against Women and Children. High levels of gender-based violence, GBVF, sexual violence, and domestic violence are tearing families and communities apart. And very often, the crimes are perpetrated by people close to or known to the victim, like a family member, a friend, a teacher, or a neighbour. Who are committing most of these crimes against women and children?
Men are, and that is why it is important that we talk to men and boys. I think the President expressed it best when he said, and I quote:
It is a male problem because young men and boys are exposed to patriarchal attitudes and practises daily and are often encouraged to prove their masculinity through dominance and violence.
Earlier this month, on International Men’s Day, the Takuwani Rimme Programme of Action for 2023 to 2025 was launched in Limpopo. This programme encourages men to address the many gender issues that plague our society. The programme
recognises that eliminating gender-based violence requires the rejection of all forms of violence. Above all, to discuss and learn about their role in the fight against GBVF.
We need to talk to men and boys because men and boys have been the dominant perpetrators of GBVF. We, as men, are the problem and therefore we must be part of the solution. Every woman in our community is somebody’s mother, somebody’s daughter or somebody’s sister. None of us would be here today if it wasn’t for women.
Patriarchal value systems are widespread in South African families and communities. Some men believe that male dominance and male entitlement are the norm. This continues to manifest itself in various forms of GBVF. For example, some men believe that they have a right to a woman’s body. That they have the right to treat a woman like an object. That their wife or girlfriend belongs to them as their property and that they can do whatever they want with them. That a woman means “yes” when she says “no”, or that domestic violence is a private matter that takes place behind closed doors. These are the attitudes that we need to change.
There have been several legislative interventions to prevent and combat GBVF and domestic violence. We have the three new Gender-Based Violence Amendment Acts which have drastically changed the architecture of the legal framework in responding to GBVF, and sexual offences. We need to ensure the multi sectoral implementation of these laws, countrywide and most importantly, to create a court system that is compliant.
This month also marks a historic milestone with the passing of the National Council on Gender-based Violence and Femicide Bill by the National Assembly. The establishment of the National Council on GBVF is an urgent and critical task. This includes the development of the comprehensive national GBVF prevention and the integrated femicide strategic frameworks which signal a holistic approach to turning the gender-based violence tide.
Regarding protection orders in cases of domestic violence, some men point out that men can also be victims of domestic violence. This is true, but the reality is that of the total number of domestic violence protection orders issued in the last financial year, 2022/23, around three quarters of the victims were women, and a quarter were men. When it comes to
the perpetrators, roughly three quarters of the perpetrators were men, and a quarter were women.
The Domestic Violence Amendment Act, or the Domestic Violence Act, as amended, is not anti-men. It’s gender-neutral in its application. But it is a fact that most persons who need the protection offered by the Bill are women. Equally important is the safety of children, and there have been significant improvements with these three GBVF Acts to further protect children, such as introducing the following and I quote:
Exposing the child to domestic violence.
As an additional law in cases of domestic violence and stating that the child may apply for a protection order whether he or she is supported. Any person may apply for a protective order on behalf of such child, and, in appropriate cases, services may be provided to the complainant, respondent or child in applying for such a protective order. In addition, it is illegal to be uninvolved in domestic violence against children. And being uninvolved can mean simply being a bystander. This is prohibited, and failure to report domestic violence against the child is a criminal offence.
Intermediary services are available to children when testifying in both civil and criminal proceedings, and there will be no police fail in cases of rape or compelled rape involving, amongst others, a child victim, A victim with a disability or a victim who is or was in a domestic relationship with the accused person.
It would take a collective effort from all of us, whether it be government, the public and private sectors, civil society, traditional leaders, religious leaders, communities, businesses and individuals to prevent and combat GBVF. It is also important that the 16-day campaign is not viewed as a stand-alone event. It’s not just 16 days, it’s part of the 365 days of activism campaign, which aims to mobilise members of society, especially men, to join hands with the government in the fight to curb violence against women and children, and I want to include all men, those who are fathers, brothers, uncles, neighbours, community leaders, teachers, religious leaders, employers, each one of us has a responsibility towards eradicating GBVF.
The objectives of the 16-day campaign are to ensure that every one of us is an active participant in the fight to eradicate violence against women and children. We need to ensure the
mass mobilisation of all communities to promote collective responsibility, to fight the scourge of violence.
As a country, we have a history of violence, the history of violence can be seen in the way many people still seem to see violence as a way of resolving conflict, which only then further perpetrates the cycle of violence from one generation to the next. Many children grow up in abusive homes and will one day become abusive partners or abusive of husbands because they have grown up in households where violence has been normalised. We need to acknowledge that violence against women and children is a societal problem and therefore the solution lies with all of us.
Another factor we should also be open and frank about in discussing is the impact of alcohol and substance abuse on incidents of gender-based violence and femicide.
Hon Speaker, it is also crucial that women are economically empowered. There’s a link between economic insecurity and gender-based violence. As women who financially must rely on their partners are at greater risk of gender-based violence. We often see this when women withdraw domestic violence charges against men because the man is the breadwinner and
threatens to withhold money or food from the woman or the children unless she withdraws the charges. Women who are affected by gender-based violence must be economically empowered so that it makes it easier for them to get out of an abusive relationship.
There are several existing initiatives which aim to prevent and combat GBVF and provide support to GBVF survivors. The victims of sexual offences courts are able to access the specialised sexual offences courts without fear or prejudice. Our sexual offences courts assist in eliminating the secondary victimisation and improving support services and creating a victim centric environment.
The National Prosecuting Authority is continuing with the expansion of its Thuthuzela Care Centre, TCC, footprints and an increased number of TCC sites from 55 to 62 operational sites in the last two years. As well as maintaining sexual offence conviction rates with the current conviction rate of 76%.
Regarding the National Register for Sex Offenders, any person who meets vulnerable persons in any way, manner or form must
be vetted against the register, so the vulnerable persons are protected against convicted sex offenders.
We are making progress with the issuing of clearance certificates. As an example, the percentage of certificates issued within 10 days from the date of receipt of the application was 95% in the month of August, achieved against an annual target of 70%.
Hon members, these are but some of the many interventions and initiatives government has and is continuing to put in place to combat and prevent GBVF in all its forms. But it will take a collective effort if we are to succeed with every single person in our country having to do their part to stop the scourge of GBVF.
I want to urge everyone who needs assistance to call the GB emergency number at 0800 28428, and that number is working. I tried it yesterday. It was answered quickly, or you could send “Please call me” to *120*7867# or SMS the word “Help” to 31531. Help is available. This is not something that we should be party politicizing. This is a crisis for the country that we all need to get involved in collectively and overcome.
Finally, I want to close with just a few selected lines from a poem from Maya Angelou, who herself was the survivor of gender-based violence and where she speaks of resilience and overcoming hardship. It reads as follows and I quote:
Did you want to see me broken? Bowed head and lowered eyes? Shoulders falling down like teardrops? Weakened by my soulful cries? You may shoot me with your words. You may cut me with your eyes. You may kill me with your hatefulness, but still like air. I rise. Leaving behind Knights of terror and Fear, I rise into a Daybreak that’s wondrously clear. I rise, I rise, I rise.
I thank you.
Ms N K SHARIF: Madam Speaker, let me start by welcoming the debate for 16 Days of Activism today. The role of men combating gender-based violence and femicide is where it starts and ultimately where it ends. The role of men in combating gender-based violence and femicide determines how many women keep dying, keep being violated and keep being abused at the hands of violent men.
As broader this topic is, it is really a simple thing that the violence perpetrated towards women by men must stop. It is men who need to combat gender-based violence and femicide because it is men who perpetrate violence against women. I will say up front that there are men that work hard to combat gender-based violence and femicide but we need more. I am reminded by the famous meditation from French philosopher Rene Descartes; I think, therefore I am.
We all have the capacity to determine our own attainability of knowledge the need to learn, unlearn and relearn is a responsibility we all have. This is the only way we can change society and make South Africa a better country. The role men have to play is literally all of it. Gender-based violence and femicide is not an issue which women should bear the responsibility of fixing yet here we are. It is women who are at the forefront of this fight while men often take a supportive role. This is so absurd if you think about it. If men stop the violence we would not live in a country with one of the highest gender-based violence and femicide rates in the world.
In the second quarter alone we have seen over 10 000 rapes being reported, over 1 500 sexual assaults, over 200 domestic
violence murder charges and over 7 000 domestic violence cases. This is only what has been reported. These are not just statistics, these are the lives of women and these are human beings. The truth is that women are not safe in this country because we are not seen as equal autonomous beings. Gender- based violence and femicide happens to all types of women, by all types of men and none of us are immune. The struggle of women more often than not lay at the hands of violent men. Men have the responsibility to bear this burden.
There must be a level of responsibility to work on the emotional and mental wellbeing of men to get the healing from the trauma so many men go through. The patriarchy affects men just as much as women and we must speak out about it more. It is men and women that must raise their families without gender stereotypes and to actively and consciously fight the patriarchy. As much as this requires a whole of society approach, the culture you instill in your children is dependent on how they are raised at home. We must start opening spaces which men fully occupy especially in government and the private sector to see women as equal. Men in this country must hold each other accountable.
Again, as women it should not fall upon us to keep you accountable. It is important to be aware of how people speak and joke around rape and the role of women. Calling out misogynist jokes and comments some men make around braais, in the barber shops or with friends is an example of how you can hold each other accountable. If not, this is perpetuating violence and saying that this sort of behaviour is acceptable, it is not acceptable. It is men that must call out other men for their violence no matter what form it takes. The more men that stand up to other men against violence towards women the better.
Now, please, do not misunderstand me. I am not here asking for allyship I am asking for common decency. As women we should not need to fight just for the right to exist. I want to also acknowledge those men that do stand up for gender-based violence and femicide and no continued to unlearn the devastating and dangerous effects of the patriarchy and misogyny. It is these men that have worked in continue to work tirelessly to change the social fabric along with women.
It is the fathers that teach their families that we cannot progress without men and women working together as equals. It is the leaders in society that respect women’s places and
actually open up spaces without conflict for the progress of women and society as a whole. It is husbands and boyfriends that treat women with love and kindness and make them feel safe. It is organisations like Langa for men and Not in my name that are some of the male-led organisations that understand the role of men goes beyond a supporting role, that must take full responsibility in the fight against gender- based violence and femicide. We need more of you.
Men must inspire the next generation of men to take up the mantle and work towards a more, fair and equal society. We cannot combat gender-based violence and femicide if we do not start challenging the factors such as misogyny, sexism, patriarchy, gender stereotypes and lack of emotional and mental wellbeing and support for men. This must be done within our homes, within our workspaces, within schools and within all spaces you as the individual occupies. This, hon members, is our shared responsibility and we owe it to the next generation to do so. I thank you.
Ms M S KHAWULA: Thank you very much, Chairperson.
IsiZulu:
uma sikhuluma ngento yokuhlukunyezwa kwabantu besifazane sikhuluma ngento enzima. Sengathi thina sesiyayithatha sihlekisa ngayo. Uyabona le nto yobubushoshovu bezinsuku eziyi-16 bokulwa nodlame olusekelwe ebulilini iyalimaza futhi ibuhlungu ngoba uma ubheka lana, abantu besifazane abahlukumezeki ngoba kunguNovemba kuphela. Bayazi ekomidini lePhalamende, sikhala izinyembezi nsukuzonke, ngendlela abantu bakithi besifazane abehlukumezeka ngayo behlukunyezwa abantu abathandana nabo, bahlukunyezwa abantu okufanele ngabe bayabavikela, kuze kuvele ngisho nabafundisi uqobo. Le nto le egcina isibangela isibibithwane ukuthi thina siyahlala kulekomidi lePhalamende elikhuluma ngokuhlukunyezwa kwabantu besifazane kodwa ekugcineni asiboni bavikelekile.
Engingakhuluma ngakho nje, kunezinto esihlala sikhuluma ngazo nsukuzonke okufanele ngabe uMnyango kaHulumeni ngabe uyazibheka ukuthi zona azinawo yini umthelela kulezi zinkinga esikhala ngazo zokuhlukunyezwa kwabantu besifazane.
Ngakhala lapha ngokuthi ake kubhekwe lezi zinyanga zendabuko lezi ezilapha abantu ngoba iningi lazo, emacaleni amaningi esinawo uthola ukuthi intombazane noma ingane ibulewe kodwa kwathathwa izicubu zomzimba wayo ngenxa yenkoleloze yokuthi bazokwazi ukuceba. Okwesibili, amathaveni lawa agcwele
ezindaweni zabantu abamnyama, engingazi ukuthi uma uHulumeni ekhipha amalayisenisi alamathaveni uyacabanga kuqala yini azowafaka phakathi kwemizi yabantu bakithi kangangothi sehluleka nokungene emakhaya nezidakwamizwa zikhona laphaya.
Uma futhi kuvulwa amacala, wonke lawo macala agcina ayobhadla ezinkantolo. UNgqonqoshe wezoBulingiswa nokuHlunyeleliswa kweZimilo naye unesandla kulezi zinto ngoba kunamacala amaningi othola ukuthi amacala okudlwengula nawokubulala kwabantu ahlezi ezinkantolo angaqulwa, abantu bangagwetshwa. Uthola ukuthi omunye umuntu uyangena manje, kusasa icala lakhe liyahlehliswa, kuthathwa lokhu okuthiwa amabheyili.
Okunye okuyimbangela yalezinto esikhala ngazo, yindlela amaphoyisa asebenza ngayo. Amaphoyisa alapha eNingizimu Afrika awanalo uzwelo lomuntu wesifazane. Umuntu wesifazane usahlukumezeke kangangoba noma engaya esikhungweni samaphoyisa eyobika ukuthi umuntu athandana naye uyamhlukumeza kuthiwa akabuyele emuva kuloyo muntu bayoxoxisana, futhi uma ngabe lomuntu kufanele aboshwe, akaboshwa. Ezinye zezinto okufanele zilungiswe la phezulu kuHulumeni ngaphambi kokuthi ziyephansi.
Ezinye izinto eziyinkinga kakhulu Sihlalo, nento yokufundiswa kwabantu besifazane bafundiswe ukuzimela bangalokhu bancike
ebantwini besilisa abazogcina bababulale ngenxa yokuthi bafuna ukuthi babathengele ukudla bakwazi ukuthi babondlele nezingane.
Lapha siyakhuluma nsukuzonke ukuthi asibabobe phela abantu besifazane bethuthukiswa bakwazi ukuzimela. Bafundiswe amakhono, balime, bafunde ukuzimela, ukuze esikhathini esiningi uma indoda imbona ibone ukuthi lo muntu akanandaba nami.
Futhi nokuhamba kuyiwe emakhaya kuyoqwashiswa abantu ngoba lobu bushoshovu bezinsuku eziyi-16 bokulwa nodlame olusekelwe ebulilini enikhuluma ngabo yizinto ozizwa emsakazweni mhlawumbe zigcine emadolobheni endaweni ethize. Abayi emakhaya ebantwini phansi bayolalela izinkinga zabo babafundise ngalobu bushoshovu bezinsuku eziyi-16 bokulwa nodlame olusekelwe ebulilini nangamalungelo abo.
Emakhaya kukhona umuntu nje obekezelela ukugqilazwa yindoda, iyamshaya. Uma ethi uyabika kubo kuthiwa bekezela, uma ethi ubika lapha egcekeni emndenini kuthiwa bekezela. Ngani, ngoba ayikho into emsizayo nemlekelelayo. Ubaba wengane ubhokile lapha ekhaya udlwengula ingane yakhe kodwa lapha akufuneki
ukuthi ayikhulume. Uthole ukuthi umakhelwane udlwengula ingane lapha. Bathi bona, cha, kufanele wena uzohlawula.
Zingingi izinkinga okufanele silwe nazo ngoba ekugcineni siyoloku sixoxa, sixoxa, sichitha isikhathi ngento engayi phambili. Amathaveni, uyabona nje uma siya emaNyuvesi uthola izinkinga, uphume uphethwe yikhanda, amahlo abovu, bakutshela ukuthi bayadlwengulwa kulezindawo lapho abafundi behlala khona. Asikwazi ukukhululeka , emisebenzini bayadlwengulwa abantu besifazane, bayahlukumezeka bayizisulu. Ngiyabonga.
Mr E M BUTHELEZI: Hon Speaker, the scourge of violence against women and children persists as a stain on our society, demanding urgent and sustained attention. The latest statistics indicate that over 14 000 females were victims of assaults with the intent to cause grievous bodily harm incidents. This shows us that our campaigns against gender- based violence and femicide, GBVF, must have a 365 days focus, not just during the 16 days. However, the 16 Days of Activism serves as a strong reminder that this issue requires a collective response from all members of society.
It is imperative to acknowledge that gender-based violence is not merely a women’s issue - it is a societal issue that
demands the active involvement of men. Therefore, men must be at the forefront of dismantling destructive behaviour. Our debate today calls for a paradigm shift, urging men to be active allies in the fight against gender-based violence.
Beyond denouncing violence, men must actively challenge harmful stereotypes, foster healthy masculinity, and contribute to creating a culture of respect and equality.
We must invest in comprehensive programmes that teach consent, empathy, and mutual respect from a young age. In the contemporary landscape, there is an urgent and compelling need for a return to fundamental values, particularly concerning the education of young men in appreciating cultural values and norms that aim to protect women. The societal fabric is woven with a diverse array of beliefs, traditions, and customs, many of which have historically been designed to foster respect, equality, and the well-being of all individuals.
Unfortunately, in recent times there has been an erosion of these values, leading to an alarming increase in instances of violence, harassment and discrimination against women. By instilling these values early on, we can cultivate a generation of men who reject violence and understand the importance of fostering safe and supportive environments.
Silence in the face of abuse perpetuates a culture of violence. Men who witness or suspect abusive behaviour must actively intervene, support survivors, and challenge the behaviours of their peers.
In the political sphere we advocate for legislative measures that reinforce the severity of gender-based violence, ensuring that perpetrators face stringent consequences for their actions. Simultaneously, we must bolster support systems for survivors, providing them with accessible avenues to seek justice and healing.
Let us unite in recognising that the fight against gender- based violence demands our collective commitment from all South Africans. Thank you very much, hon Speaker.
Mr F J MULDER: Hon Speaker, ending violence in our communities is going to involve all of us. It is critical that men and people of all genders and race are active and participants and promotors of change to the current status quo. It is also critical to combat not only individual incidents of violence but also the systemic forms of violence.
Men of course also experience many forms of violence from sexual assault to racism to homophobia, classism and poverty. Forms of violence intersect, compound and are layered. It is important to isolate gender-based violence away from racism, homophobia, classism and others. In order to create a meaningful movement to end sexualised violence we must oppose all forms of violence.
Men should take responsibility for how much power we have, how much space we take up and our actions and behaviour. We should question our complicity within the systems of violence. Do we contribute to or oppose violence with our actions, words or silence. We often experience in this very august House a culture of instigation, division, violence, racism and insults, which then send a signal to the public at large that this type of behaviour is norm in South Africa.
Violence against women and children has a multidimensional effect on the overall health of the economy, both in the short term and the long term. In short term, women from abusive homes are likely to work fewer hours and be less productive when they do work. In the long run high levels of domestic violence can decrease the number of women in the workforce, minimising women’s acquisition of skills and dedication and
results and in less public investment overall as the mere public resources channelled to health and judicial services.
Domestic violence can cost the economy between 1% and 2% of the gross domestic product and a possible reverse casualty of causality can be worse. Violence against women and children knows no boundaries or geography or culture but those living in poverty face a higher level of abuse.
Some believe that violence against women and children are not their business, but South Africa is on a coition course. South African men and women should reflect and reconsider their views on violence. We should set an example in this House by not only debating but have sensible debates about the future and refrain from more blame shifting, denial and senseless insults. Thank you, Speaker.
Ms M E SUKERS: Hon Speaker, there is no woman on earth that does not deserve outrage at violence inflicted upon her ... [Inaudible.] ... about which outrage was selective. It was a day of silence when the most horrific manner imaginable, yet the world remained silent. South Africa knows gender-based violence in its cruellest for forms, but this government remained stoic. There were chilling accounts from survivors
and first responders who witnessed Hamas’s massacre of 1200 Israelites, painting a horrifying picture of systemic sexual assaults perpetrated against women and girls of all ages.
Is the rape of a black woman, a white woman, a Jewish woman, an Iranian more horrific based on how we relate? Do we feel it more if it is our own skin and religion? The lack of explicit and more widespread condemnation of the Hamas atrocities on women and children is deeply concerning, and the international #MeToo movement has completely failed to mention Hamas atrocities on the Israeli women victims. Our very own Siya Kolisi says, and I quote:
People think of that being a problem only for a certain section of society, but it is not. It doesn’t matter whether you are male or female, black or white, rich or poor. If you are a human being, then this affects you.
He stressed that we must call for improved laws and services to end violence against women and girls for good. The ACDP fully supports mending people of strength with integrity and kindness, where women and children can look up to husbands, fathers and men in general as people they can trust not to
harm them. But this does not happen by wishing; each man has a mission to change.
Any attempted intervention in relation to GBVF must acknowledge the public health crisis of pornography. There are infamous court cases in our country that show the violation of women and children as a result of men watching porn. This scourge and addiction must be addressed and gain the stigma that it deserves.
Men must be active in the effort to stop this violence. The 16 days of activism against gender-based violence campaign works to call for the elimination of all forms of GBV. Studies across 24 of 27 countries reveal that children’s exposure to violence and trauma is linked to men’s use of violence against their intimate partners.
It is surely an unusual society that does not protect its women. Men’s contribution starts with their own behaviour and the respectful reference to women, particularly in conversation with other men, and by raising their sons to honour their mothers, sisters and other women, no matter what race, religion or history. They will grow into men who ...
[Inaudible.] ... at such violence and break the cycle of GBV
... [Time expired.] ... I thank you.
IsiXhosa:
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Ngenye imini uze uthi iNkosi uKwankwa Somlomo, ndiyiyo nam.
English:
Hon Speaker, the unacceptable high levels of gender-based violence and femicide taking place in our country are things that we never imagined. After conquering out the trying times of human rights violations under apartheid, little did we know that 29 years into our democracy we would be grappling with these shameful moments of men violating women almost on a daily basis. Raping them, cases of attempted murder, children and women being killed.
Rape has become and sexual violence have become hyperendemic in South Africa which is a blight on our national conscience and a betrayal of the constitutional order for which so many fought, and for which so many of our people were willing to sacrifice their lives. We are of the view that men should play a critical role in curbing gender-based violence, GBV. The UDM calls on the Department of Women, Youth and Persons with
Disabilities, Department of Social Development, SA Police Service, SAPS and other relevant stakeholders to collaborate in strengthening educative programmes aimed at educating men in particular about GBV.
We believe that men should be at the forefront and must call each other out to create safe communities, as ending violence against women and children should be a collective responsibility that we work towards on a daily basis. It is significant that men and boys are active participants and promoters of change to get rid of the current status quo, and most importantly, men should be positive role models in their communities to young men and boys in order to teach them about how to become healthy role models and move away from masculinity.
There are good pieces of legislation which we’ve adopted as this National Assembly in the fight against gender-based violence. However, we need to work closely with these entities, which are responsible for their implementation, to ensure that there is improvement, and to ensure that our people’s lives are indeed saved and that we are able to build safer communities working together. Thank you very much.
The SPEAKER: Thank you hon Inkosi Kwankwa.
IsiXhosa:
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Camagu Somlomo.
Mr B N HERRON: Speaker violence against women and femicide continues to plague our country. Between July and September, 881 women were murdered in this country and during the same period 1 514 attempted murders of women victims occurred in the country. We have to break this cycle and as we go into December time of festivities, we must remember these figures and realise that 2024 must be better and different. For this to change, we need to reform, action, education and a cultural shift. Just yesterday, three women security officers were sexually assaulted and raped after heavily armed criminals entered the Department of Transport in Merebank.
These acts of violence and cruelty are a reflection of the society that continues to stand by while our sisters are treated as objects. A year and some months on from the barbaric mass rape that occurred in Krugersdorp by the supposed zama-zamas and despite hurried arrests, the police have nothing to show for it and no DNA-based leads. And then there’s Anthea Houston, who was assaulted while peacefully
protesting during one of South Africa’s largest running events in Cape Town, in broad daylight in front of thousands of people. These tragic events reflect the awful truth ... [Time expired.]
Ms A S HLONGO: Hon Speaker before I begin, let me say that it’s been four years since Amahle Thabethe went missing. Hon Speaker just three days ago, it was her birthday. I want to take this opportunity not to wish her happy birthday but to plead with the police and Minister Cele to put more effort in the search of little Amahle. At this point hon Speaker, our prayers are with the mother of Amahle and the family in these difficult times. Hon Speaker ...sorry...
IsiXhosa:
USOMLOMO: Hayi bo ...
English:
... what’s wrong? Okay.
Ms A S HLONGO: Patriarchy and gender power relations manifest has created male dominance in various facets in life.
Addressing the underlying factors is critical as the as the social and economic position of women requires various
interventions. The persistent reality underscores the association between authority in political, economic and social spheres and masculinity. Traditional attributes linked to being a boy or a man is associated and interconnected with higher economic rewards and political influence, compared to those with girls and women. Masculinity and feminine qualities continue to shape the behaviour of men or the behaviour of males and females and their gender related roles.
Despite increasing presence of women in leadership roles, the perception persists that leadership is inherently masculine, leading to societal stigmatisation for women to deviate from traditional gender norms. Men who engage in low status domestic work may face ridicule and excessive praise, highlighting the enduring gender biases of societal perceptions and expectations.
Hon members, the gender division of labour, which associates low status domestic work with femininity and perceives high status public leadership as masculine, highlights how men benefit from their association with masculine privileges. This this perpetuates inequality as masculinities receive higher social status, economic rewards and political power in many societies. Maintaining a state of imbalance deeply in great
stereotypes and power imbalances contributes to an environmental where social and where violence against women is either tolerated or normalised.
Hon Chairperson and hon members, by fostering respect, understanding and equality in relationships, we can challenge and dismantle the structures that perpetuate harmful behaviours. Initiatives aimed at promoting open communication, consent, education and mutual support within relationships are essential components of combating gender-based violence and femicide.
Additionally, raising awareness about the detrimental consequences of toxic behaviour and encouraging positive masculinity can contribute to a cultural shift that reflects violence and promotes a society where all individuals, regardless of gender, can live free from fear and harm.
Hon members, the media and popular culture plays a significant role in perpetuating harmful stereotypes influencing societal attitudes and behaviours regarding gender roles. Narratives often portrayed in the media contributes to reinforcing toxic masculinity, exacerbating gender-based violence. To encounter this, there is a pressing need for popular culture to oppose
gender-based violence actively by promoting narratives that challenge harmful stereotypes, showcase healthy relationships, and amplify voices advocating for gender-based violence.
Equally hon members, important is the ongoing dialogues within the family, communities and various special platforms. Social platforms or partners is paramount for fostering a collective commitment to combat gender-based violence and promote healthy relationship. Sustainable change begins within an open, continuous conversation that encourage community members to share perspectives, challenging great beliefs and collectively work together towards dismantling harmful norms. Ongoing dialogues serves as an educational platform, providing communities with deeper understanding of the root causes of gender-based violence and the significance of cultivating respectful relationships.
Regular discussions empower communities to address concerns, share resources and develop strategies to create environments that rejects violence and discrimination. This continuous engagement is instrumental in fostering a sense of shared responsibility, motivating individuals to actively contribute to the transformation of societal attitudes and behaviours. We need to focus on a boy child and how a boy child is raised. We
should also discuss how we raise the girl child. This is critical for them to face society with an orientation which advances gender equality.
Hon Speaker, advocating for policies that address the root causes of gender-based violence, promote equality is crucial for establishing a comprehensive framework to combat gender- based violence, which the National Strategic Plan on Gender- Based Violence and Femicide seeks to address. This includes educational reforms, integrating gender sensitive curricula, workplace policies preventing discrimination and legal reforms ensuring consequences for the perpetrators. Initiatives supporting economic empowerment such as Equal Pay and women entrepreneurship supports address disparities, contributing to vulnerability.
Ultimately, ending gender-based violence requires collective efforts from individuals, communities, government and institutions. Men as allies and advocates play a vital role, creating a world where gender-based violence is not tolerated and all individuals can live free from fear and harm.
Siswati:
Sengivala Somlomo, ngifuna kusho kutsi inhlangano yaKhongolose itimisele ekulweni nekuhlukunyetwa ngekwebulili. Futsi itimisele kwakha sive lesiphephile, lapho wonkhe umuntfu avikelekile khona. Ngekubambisana sonkhe sibomake nabobabe sitayilwa lenkhinga lesibukene nayo. Ngiyabonga.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Thank you, hon Speaker, let me start off by saying ... let’s talk about the ACDP and the comments that were made. Firstly, let me start off by saying she’s correct. There are no international organizations raising concerns about the Jewish women and children that were massacred by Hamas because they were not massacred by Hamas. That is why they can’t report on it. More Jewish people that were even held hostage are coming out and telling you how well they were treated by Hamas to such an extent that one woman said, well, I carried my child, the other one carried the child on his back. The other one talks about how they gave them food, water, and how well they treated them. So yes, nobody can say Hamas has ill-treated them because there's no facts. Hamas treated them very well. On the contrary, if you look at what the latest report says, it’s the Israeli Defence Force that opened fire that led to the killing of so many of its own. Now I know that the DA said it’s absurd. You are correct, it’s absurd. And I think the ANC is also correct because they talk
about women and children, but right in full view of you, women and children are being abused and massacred. Mothers can’t give birth because there are no anaesthetics, they are long overdue. Is it all because of this? Is this what it is all about? You sold your principles and your souls.
Chairperson, one of the root causes of gender-based violence is alcohol, and there are 75 scriptures that warn you about taking alcohol. But where did it all start? Let’s look at the Western Cape and why there’s such a high level of alcohol abuse, it is because this Western Cape government, this apartheid government used to pay these people with alcohol, and not with money. This is called the dop system and it has resulted in alcohol foetal syndrome, and that is why it’s moving from generation to generation. We are not addressing the socioeconomic conditions under which our people are living. That is why you would find ... with the latest crime statistics, gender-based violence and teenage pregnancy are serious problems in the Western gate. I see many people just attacking men like ... [Inaudible.] ... women must also take responsibility. We must take equal responsibility to create a better society. So, let’s not come here, grandstand, and complain about it, let’s do something positive. If you look at the conditions under which our people live in the Western Cape
... that is why the poorest of the poor in the Western Cape live the way they are, and that is why they are in such high levels of gender-based violence, teenage pregnancy, and HIV and Aids. The NFP supports any initiative to deal with the high levels of gender-based violence, and I hope that we’ll get more shackles in the future. [Time expired.]
Mr S N SWART: Speaker, on a point of order. It’s Swart here.
The SPEAKER: Yes.
Mr S N SWART: I had my hand up, and I know it wasn’t recognized ...
The SPEAKER: I am sorry.
Mr S N SWART: I wanted to raise a point of order that Shaik Emam referred to our member as a “she”. I think that is highly disrespectful, but I appreciate that he has left the podium already. Thank you, Speaker.
The SPEAKER: Okay, hon Swart. Let’s proceed. Hon Loate are you on the platform?
Mr T LOATE: Yes, Madam Speaker.
The SPEAKER: You may proceed.
Mr T LOATE: Hon Speaker, human civilization is still stark in the past. It is still very depressing and hard to comprehend why the world over, on 25 November each year, 16 days of activism against gender-based violence must be kickstarted.
This is an annual international campaign. Our South African democracy is tarnished by the fact that very little progress has been made in respect of elimination of violence against women and children. Women are unable to enjoy the human rights accorded to them by our own Constitution because the men in our country lack the upbringing that should have been their birth right. The campaign was started by activists at the inauguration of Women’s Global Leadership Institute in 1991.
Thirty years have gone by, and we are still running on the same spot. In our townships, taverns are more prevalent than any other centre for recreation and social togetherness. Life in our townships, as Steve Biko had pointed out, remains hell. The transformation of the townships remains stalled, and violence remain a never-ending issue. While the situation in most of our townships remain one where alcohol is abused to
dull the pain of existence, violence will continue, and women will suffer more than men.
Our government must show an interest in walking the talk by investing in gender-based violence prevention in hotspot areas. Without finding an active policy execution, we will be running on the same spot, and countless women will have suffered the trauma of violence at the hands of their male counterparts. We need demonstrable action on the part of government. Society needs to know and to see that this government means business in respect of tackling gender-based violence. By showcasing sustained advocacy efforts on the part of civil society activists and every sphere of government, those who resort to violence will get to understand how abhorrent their actions are to their friends, families, and society at large. Let us use and understand outreach programs in schools, colleges, and universities. Let us engage young people and faith-based organizations and let us show that gender-based violence is despicable. And those who resort to it are the very worst amongst us.
After 30 years of pleading and persuading, real action must now materialize to honour and protect the women of our nations. I thank you.
Mr M NYHONTSO: Hon Speaker, I am not debating.
The SPEAKER: Alright. Thank you very much, hon Nyhontso, how can you not debate on 16 days of activism?
Mr M NYHONTSO: It is because I have been debating it for the past four years, and there is nothing changing. We must behave as men, only. We have been talking every day in this Parliament.
The SPEAKER: Okay. Thank you, hon Nyhontso.
Ms A M M WEBER: Speaker, gender-based violence is a viral disease that plagued our country. It is the single greatest limitation of a women’s right to self-determination and dignity. It happens daily, every hour, and every minute, yet where is the outcry for these human rights violations?
Instead, we turn our backs on women and children, placing the responsibility on them to protect themselves from the violation of their own rights.
Awareness campaigns focus on how women should protect themselves, how women must take self-defence, and how women should plan their daily routines around gender-based violence,
but nothing on how to deal with the perpetrators or the root cause. We remain silent on the role of men in combating this issue. We need a whole of society approach. Only then can we say that we have started to combat gender-based violence.
While we celebrate 16 days of activism against violence against women and children, what about the other 349 days of no activism against gender-based violence? In fact, the attacks and violence on women and children have increased and have become more brutal, with increased brutality having almost becoming the norm. Gender-based violence is a daily occurrence at home, work and socially. What makes it even worse is that women have given up on reporting these violations. Less than 40% of women who experience violence report it. Let me make this very clear. Men, you do not have the right to beat up or rape your wife, girlfriend, or any other woman. That is a gross violation of their human rights. The strangest thing is that women are still raised to believe that a knight in shinny armour will come and save her, be her hero, fall in love and live forever happy. Well, nothing can be further from the truth, today there are hardly any heroes, and men prefer to turn their head and look the other way, when a damsel is in distress. How does a mother prepare or tell the following stories of this reality to her young baby girl about
a man’s love, the loving husband who, out of anger, poured petrol over his wife’s body and set her alive? The loving but jealous boyfriend who burnt men’s names with the soldering iron of his girlfriend’s body. five-year-old girls disappearing from a family celebration only to be found a week later, mutilated, raped, and beaten. What happened to the right to life, equality, justice, freedom, safety, security, and human dignity enshrined so greatly in our Constitution, when men act as if they have the right to violate every single one of them?
Our laws and policies to combat gender-based violence continue to be only a paper exercise, no enforcement, no execution. Not only are our laws selling us, but within the ranks of the people tasked with combating gender-based violence, we find perpetrators, we see corruption, where bribes are paid by rapists to police officers for dockets to disappear, where the ANC government reinstated a provincial executive committee, PEC, member in Mpumalanga after he allegedly raped his 8-year- old twin daughters. Is there a political will from those in power to root out these heinous crimes? Absolutely not.
The South African focus of this year’s campaign is accelerating actions to end gender-based violence and
femicide. The question is: What actions where laws are passed to ensure that there are anger management classes for men with anger issues, have school curriculums been adapted to teach children how to treat women with respect and dignity? What about teaching men to be good role models and fathers or socioeconomic conditions that contribute to gender-based violence being addressed? There is no dialogue on how to spot men and deal with anger, depression, feelings of incompetence, violence and what is the role of a father and husband? What about addressing the generational cycles of abuse that man may carry? What about identifying violent behaviour at school and addressing it? We need to open a dialogue where we include men in the response to combating gender-based violence. Men, you cannot be bystanders anymore. You must actively be part of the solution by recognizing your own rights, understanding the rights of others, acting against discrimination, inequality, and injustice, developing and implementing programs that focus on individuals who commit family and sexual violence, linking families to relevant social services, develop and implementing fatherhood programs with nongovernmental organizations, NGOs, and community centres that provide family and children services and initiatives, speaking up when you hear violent and oppressive comments, identifying violence and harassment in your schools or workplace and learn to oppose it, and
becoming a positive role model. To combat gender-based violence, a whole of society approach is required, which includes government, law enforcement agencies, communities, civil society, political parties, and men. Women are not your enemies. They are not your possessions or slurs. They can be your best friend for life if you treat them with dignity. We need you to stand up to uproot this atrocity of a crime and cure the disease. This is a call to arms, to the men of South Africa. The power to combat gender-based violence lies in your hands. It is your opportunity to move from perpetrator to protector, make the right choice. Thank you.
Ms Z NKOMO: Hon Speaker, before I can enter into my speech, I just want to say this to Mam Khawula, you spoke very well leadership. I really appreciate but would have loved to hear the views of the EFF in terms of their role in combating the issues of gender-based violence. That will be nice to also hear that part within your own discussion, and within the party. What are your views in terms of that?
Ms M S KHAWULA: Speaker, on a point of correction, Mam Khawula.
The SPEAKER: Hon no. Hon Mam Khawula, okay. Thank you. You may proceed then, hon number.
Ms Z NKOMO: Thank you, hon Mam Khawula. Hon Shaik Emam, women in this country or in the world continue to bear the brunt or continue to become the victims of gender-based violence.
Hence, in terms of women, there have been strides women have demonstrated, but the debate seeks to address to say that it is not only the issue of women, but we also need men to also answer ... [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Continue, hon member.
Ms Z NKOMO: No, no, I was just saying to hon Shaik that women bear the brunt and women continue to be victimised. Hence in most cases you’ll find women that are the ones in the forefront of fighting against the gender-based violence and femicide. However, in this debate it says we want to understand the role of men because they continue to be the one that commits the acts of gender-based violence.
Therefore, to the PAC comrade that says he’s got no input, hon member, it is very disappointing. This is a very sensitive issue because gender-based violence continues to manifest
itself within our communities. Therefore, as a political party, you must have a view on this issue.
Mr M NYHONTSO: Hon Speaker, no, she must address her point of view. I have explained, I said that we’ve been debating gender-based violence as PAC and nothing changes. Men must behave. We must stop talking and act. What is wrong with that?
The SPEAKER: Okay. Thank you very much, hon Nyhontso. Hon Nkomo, continue.
Ms Z NKOMO: Hon Speaker, as we debate on the international recognised 16 Days of Activism for No Violence Against Women and Children, I wish to take this opportunity to pay respect to the women and children who have lost their lives through gender-based violence and femicide. We convey our sincere condolences to the family and friends of all those who have lost their lives to what was declared the second pandemic, gender-based violence. Gender-based violence remains a serious issue in many countries around the world, including our own.
Many interventions to address this phenomenon have been rolled out by government. However, reducing rates of violence remains a grave challenge.
To ensure a co-ordinated national response to the pandemic of gender-based violence, government approved the national strategic plan on gender-based violence. The plan set out to provide a cohesive strategic framework to guide the national response to gender-based violence and femicide. The plan has six overreaching pillars for implementation, while progress has been made, it is reported to be slow. Parliament passed extensive legislature to combat and prevent gender-based violence and femicide. The President asserted to the pieces of legislature, commonly referred to as the three gender-based violent acts.
When we deliberated on these policies of legislation, we acknowledged that they were not a silver bullet in fixing the scourge of gender-based violence and femicide. We all called for a collaboration amongst all sectors of society outside of legislation fear many interventions have been rolled out. One such intervention is the enhanced capacity in the Eastern Cape Forensic Science Laboratory. This facility will assist greatly in the investigation of gender-based violence and femicide cases and this is most welcome. While much is being done, much more still needs to be done to ensure that gender-based violence and femicide, GBVF, is a thing of the past and women
and children feel safe as envisioned in a National Development Plan.
Hon Speaker, what is the key in addressing GBV is acknowledging that the overwhelming majority of instances of violence are perpetrated by men, both women and other men. It is generally accepted that in the fight against gender-based violent men cannot be left behind. The focus in GBV prevention has therefore increasingly turned to working with men, with interventions motivated by a desire to address the role of men and violence perpetration and recognising that masculinity and gender related social norms are implicated in violence.
On such intervention is One Man Can which is a campaign initiated by Sonke Gender Justice, a nongovernment organisation, NGO, working to prevent gender violence in South Africa in partnership with government and various national and international organisation. The campaign is designed to support men and boys to end domestic sexual violence, and promote healthy, equitable relationship between genders and to reduce the spread and impact of human immunodeficiency virus, HIV, and acquired immunodeficiency syndrome, Aids. The One Man Can programme is one of the few masculinities focused intervention currently being implemented in the country, and
it has been structured and implemented in line with current best practices, a literature and understanding of such intervention.
The historical context of families and family policy in South Africa has critical when considering GBV. Our ... [Inaudible.]
... circular labour migration violently disrupted the family structure. These disruptions meant that biological parents, especially fathers, were not living with their dependent children in the same house on a daily basis. The absence of the father in a boy’s life has had devastating effect. In many cases, the system left the boy child without any role model.
The present of role model, who acts as examples of ... [Inaudible.] ... masculinity is highlighted as an aspect that which can make interventions more successfully, along with the existence of a supportive peer groups.
Hon Speaker, the blesser phenomenon gained popularity in the country around 2016, a large body of research exists and revealed that transactional sex is a significant theme within the phenomenon of blesser and blessee relationship. Research has demonstrated that transactional sex has contributed to an increase in HIV infection rate, especially among women aged between 15 and 24, as well as concerning increase in teenage
pregnancy. While there are desired realities of blesser- blessee relationship. The one that is most concerning is the current climate in South Africa, in the increase of GBV, intimate partner violence and femicide. The blesser phenomenon contributes significantly to a patriarchal culture that objectifies women and this culture is the root cause of violent and abuse inflicted upon women. We must reject this phenomenon.
Women must have agency over their own lives and bodies. The objectification of women must never be accepted. We agree with the sentiments of the former United Nations, UN, Secretary- General, Ban Ki-moon, who said, I quote:
But there is one universal truth, applicable to all countries, cultures and communities: violence against women is never acceptable, never excusable, never tolerable.
Stable healthy families are at the heart of strong society. It is within the family’s environment that an individual’s physical, emotional and psychological development occurs. It is from our family that we learn unconditional love. We understand right from wrong, and we gain ... [Inaudible.] ... respect and self-regulation. The absence of a stable and
nurturing family environment has a profoundly damaging impact on the individual, often leading to behaviour which profoundly damages the society.
In conclusion, Madam Speaker, it is important that men appreciate that they have a responsibility towards their own children. The responsibility cannot be abdicated to women only. Financial support is also not enough. Men need to play an active role in raising their own offspring and contributing to a better society. No man is an island. We all have a duty towards protecting women and children. We all have a duty in increasing a safer South Africa. The fight against gender- based violence would be won when we all come together, hand in hand and creating a better South Africa for all. I thank you.
The SPEAKER: Thank you, hon member, hon Nkomo. Hon members, as we conclude the debate this afternoon, I don’t know how many of you are aware that the President of the Republic today is addressing a continental body of men on issues of gender-based violence. I’m raising this because it is the first in our continent for us to bring men under the same roof and address this very issue. That is highly commendable, and I think the House will then convey that so that this continues. Thank you,
hon members. The 13th Order. Secretary, will you read the 13th Order of the day.
Debate concluded.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS - ON 2022/23 ANNUAL REPORT OF ARMSCOR AND CASTLE CONTROL BOARD
There was no debate.
The ACTING CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY (Ms G K Tseke):
Madam Speaker I move that the report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Mr S F J MARAIS: Chairperson, the Armaments Corporation of South Africa SOC Ltd, Armscor, was established to satisfy the requirement of our Defence Force in respect of defence material and its financial dependent on the Defence Force acquisition appetite and the transfer from the Department of Defence to secure their sustainability.
Initially, Armscor included Denel which became the failing state-owned enterprise after its unbundling in the early 90s.
At the time, Armscor was a global leader of innovative defence material development manufacturing and application. Since then both of experience spectacular declined to the embarrassing situation they are now in. Denel lost its global competitive urge and its viability under the watch of Minister Gordhan and the Department of Public Enterprises. But is still the original equipment manufacturer of some of our critical premise equipment.
It would be devastating for our defence capabilities if we lose that too. There are two options. Firstly, privatise the viable division based on the successful Rheinmetall Denel Munition, RDM, enhancement models or to amalgamate only the strategic require divisions on the Armscor and liquidate the rest. Do not forget the abused role of Armscor by the ANC in the infamous arms scandal in the early 90s, State Capture and the discredited ANC cadre deployment policy.
Armscor is struggling due to the inability of the Minister and the commander-in-chief to prioritise and find strategic to equipment acquisition, maintenance and upgrade.
In the meantime, money is wasted by Armscor in finding alternatives to become another failing state-owned enterprise.
They should focus on their core role and the responsibility as a strategic acquisition agent and to help regaining our lost defence capabilities.
Minister, this is your responsibility and is another failure to be added to your legacy. I thank you.
Mr W T I MAFANYA: Chairperson, the EFF the budgetary review and the recommendation report on Armscor and Castle of Good Hope. As a state entity, Armscor is supposed to be the bedrock of the country’s defence capabilities. Together with Denel this entity has been subjected to abysmal management and expected to live up to expectations.
Suffering from the severe impacts of budget cuts, the entity has failed to leverage the vast scientific and technological capacities it has to commercialise some of its products.
Armscor should never depend on the state for its operation. It ought to have its own capacity to finance the functions while providing the SA Defence Force, SADF, cutting edge technology for the defence of the nation. Over and above, we are unable to fully maintain and service most of our machineries today and there is no long-term planning. The budget for research
and development has been dramatically reduced depriving country of important foot whole to recent technologies. We reject the report.
Inks R N CEBEKHULU: House Chairperson, Armscor stands at the centre of the quality and delivery of the Defence Force.
Therefore, it is of critical importance that it remains functional, effective, diligent and delivers on its constitutional mandate.
However, the IFP notes with concern that despite this, the corporation has not been spared from the financial strain under which the broader defence industry is in. Naturally, this has led to the ineffective maintenance of prime mission equipment which has forced the entity’s need to diversify its income stream in order to sustain itself.
The CCB falls victim to this as well with a growing need to focus on increasing its revenue generation. There are still a few pressing matters that the board needs to address such as the security of tourists at the Castle and the need for fencing and other security measures to be enhanced.
Hon Chair, I want to take this moment to commend Armscor for its efforts in decreasing fruitless expenditure this financial year. This is proof that with willingness, effort and efficiency, state entities can be turned around for the better. We accept the report. Thank you.
Mr
W
W WESSELS: No declaration. Thank you, Chair.
Mr
S
N SWART: No declaration. Thank you, House Chair.
Mr
B
N HERRON: No declaration, House Chair.
Mr
T
LOATE: No declaration.
Mr
M
NYHONTSO: Chair, the PAC support this report. But no
declaration, Chair.
Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chair, President Ramaphosa has come out very strongly that no arms must be sold to Israel although the Treasury published a report that we were selling arms to Israel. We later got a report from the Department of International Relations and Co-operation that that is not the case. It is important that Armscor continues its work but only for the Defence Force. It shouldn’t sell arms to those that
want to commit genocide and to kill women and children now that we are in the eve of 16 Days of Activism for No Violence against Women and Children and that we are about to conclude a United Nations Convection to combat violence against women and children. Al-Jama-ah support this report. Thank you very much.
Ms T I LEGWASE: House Chair, I come before the sitting today on behalf of the ANC to express an unwavering support for the budgetary review and recommendation report presented by the Portfolio Committee on Defence and Military Veterans particularly on the 2022-23 annual report of Armscor and the Castle Control Board.
While we acknowledge the challenges highlighted in the report, we commend the diligent work of Armscor in managing and executing contracts worth R17,22 billion during the 2022-23 financial year.
The ANC recognises the critical roles that Armscor plays in supporting the SA National Defence Force, SANDF, and in contributing the country’s defence capabilities. In light of concerns raised by the committee regarding the prime mission equipment, repair and maintenance value chain, contracting systems and the efficiency in military environment.
We fully endorsed the recommendation for Auditor-General of South Africa to conduct the performance audit. This proactive step aligns accountability optimisation of resources within the defence sector.
Additionally, Chair, the ANC acknowledges the valuable contributions of the current Armscor board and urges the Minister of Defence to prioritise appointment of new board with the composition and expertise that reflect the dual requirement of supporting the Department of Defence and pursuing commercial opportunities.
The ANC support the call for detailed breakdowns of contract values update on the Oryx and the Rooivalk helicopter fleet and further information on project Hog Oyster.
Coming to the Castle Control Board, we appreciate the board effort in preserving and protecting the cultural and military heritage of the Castle of Good Hope. Despite the challenges posed by the ongoing pandemic, the ANC recognises the strategies prioritised outlined by the CCB and support its commitment to the securing of the Castle future sustainability.
In conclusion, Chair, the ANC fully endorse the recommendations of the committee and we are confident that through collaborative efforts ... Thank you, Chair. The ANC support.
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS ON 2022-
23 ANNUAL REPORT OF DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE
There was no debate.
The ACTING CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY (Mrs G K Tseke)
moved: That the report be adopted.
Declarations of Vote:
Mr S F J MARAIS: Hon House Chairperson, our Defence Force has dropped from the first place in 2022, to now the third strongest in Africa. What a shame. Under your watch Minister, our Defence Force and its capability has deteriorated. Most
notably in the SA Navy with one out of four fidgets, one out of four links helicopters and one out of three submarines serviceable. You have admitted in a written answer that 85% of the Air Force’s aircraft were grounded which is a national disaster.
Last week we have seen the last of the Kazas now also beyond economical repair. We have one cargo aircraft left for all our logistical support domestically and internationally supporter of paratroopers, Special Forces and airborne infantry.
We have zero maritime air ... [Inaudible.] ... capability. We have five out of 39 orcs helicopters ... [Inaudible.] ... for the drop-offs ... [Inaudible.] ... airborne infantry, disaster relief and the transport of the commander-in-chief, with four in the Democratic Republic of Congo, DRC and Cab Delgado. One is left in South Africa.
We have one out of 11 Rooivalk strategic helicopters that are used to escort flights in and out of the red zones.
We have six out of 35 Pilatus Aircraft pieces seven fixed wing pilot trainers and only two out of 26 gryphons.
The budgeted hours for flying and sea going hours have been reduced to a level that it threatens the minimum pilot competency rating requirement.
Instead of funding from the medium-term budget for urgent maintenance and upgrades, we got a R700 million baseline budget cut of which R500 million is to come from maritime combat capability which amounts was required towards the upgrades of ... [Inaudible.] ... add the unfunded ... [Time expired.]
Mr W T I MAFANYA: Hon House Chairperson, the SA National Defence Force through the costs and budget cuts have been put under tremendous strain by the overwhelming demands to defend the country at all costs. The President is forever deploying our soldiers beyond the scope of the allocated budget. The President and Treasury are complicit on the underperformance of our army and expose our army into dangerous situations that are untenable. The EFF supports this budget report.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, I am reminded you are seated next to the hon Letlape. Hon Letlape, the day we welcomed you in this House you were not here. Can you please stand up so that the hon members can see you.
Thank you.
Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Hon House Chairperson, the financial status of the Department of Defence and Military Veterans for the fiscus year 2022-23 shows a worrying turn on irregular expenditure with a total amount of R555,9 million. However, this does not encompass the full extent of the financial challenges faced by the department.
The committee in its report has identified discrepancies in the reporting of over expenditure on compensation of employees amount to R2,9 billion which was classified as unauthorised expenditure. Major contributors to irregular expenditure in this regard uncovered known competitive bidding processes were undertaken. This highlighted a problem where the flow of money in the department is concerning as it left open the misuse.
The fruitless and wasteful expenditure through showing a decrease from R3,3 million in the financial year 2021-22, to R2,5 million in the financial year 2022-23 remains too high. The slow implementation of recommendations and consequence management has highlighted by the Department of Defence and Military Veterans is an issue that requires urgent attention.
However, House Chairperson, there are some burning issues that that I cannot let rest such as the poor state of military hospitals which are in disrepair. These hospitals are meant even to provide medical attention to our highest ranking officials such as the President. Due to the lack of maintenance and strong governance, even these ... Thank you.
IsiZulu:
Siyawemukela lo mbiko. [Kwaphela isikhathi.]
Mr W W WESSELS: No declaration, House Chairperson.
Mr S N SWART: Hon House Chairperson, the ACDP shares the deep concerns expressed by other speakers about the financial constraints facing this department. It is unacceptable to expect this department to fulfil its constitutional duties when it faces such financial constraints.
We from the ACDP side would urge Parliament who has the power to amend budgets next year in February to 2024 when we deal with these budgets to use those powers to ensure that the Defence Force is properly financed so that it can fulfil its constitutional duties. I thank you.
Mr B N HERRON: House Chairperson, we have no declaration.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon House Chairperson, the NFP supports the report tabled here today. Allow me to raise a few concerns. Of course the irregular expenditure which seems to be getting out of hand. The fruitless and wasteful expenditure and the qualified audit opinion that the department received.
However, let us welcome the intervention by the President to ensure that the Defence Force assist the SA Police Service in dealing with illegal mining in the country. We also call on the President to intervene in the gang violence that is claiming a lot of lives particularly in the Cape Flats by deploying the SA National Defence Force.
One of the challenges we found previously when the Defence Force was deployed they were working in isolation and not working together with the SA Police Service.
Now House Chairperson, as the NFP, we are calling for a thorough investigation into all South Africans that have been in the frontline of the Israeli Defence Force that are involved and or responsible for atrocities that were committed against the Palestinian people. We want them to be identified,
charged criminally and handed over to the International Criminal Court. It would appear that because of a loophole in the system, in the foreign military assistance and by virtue of them having dual citizenship, we will not be able to charge them and try them in our country. So we believe we must identify them, charge them and hand them over to the International Criminal Court. However, more importantly, we need to deal with this issue of dual citizenship where members are going and committing atrocities against others in different countries because they have dual citizenship. And as we could see very, very clear many, many people are coming out saying that it is the Israeli Defence Force who were responsible for the number of Israelis that were killed in the war that started on 7 October.
Mr S N SWART: Nonsense!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Swart please, we do not do that, and I do not expect that from you. Please.
Mr S N SWART: My apologies, House Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you.
AIC. Cope.
Mr T LOATE: Hon House Chairperson, we support this report.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you.
PAC.
Mr M NYHOTSO: The PAC supports this report, House Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you.
Al Jama-ah.
Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chairperson, Al Jama-ah does not take lightly the concerns of the Presidency that there are attempts to undermine South Africa and we heard the story of about the manipulation of the rand by the banks. Al Jama-ah is now further concerned that the hon Marais has now assessed the capability of our Defence Force, but let me tell him that he is part of the very negative report. Our Defence Force is ready to protect our country. Al Jama-ah supports this report. Thank you very much.
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon House
Chairperson, the ANC supports the Budgetary Review and Recommendation, BRR, report of the Department of Defence and Military Veterans. While acknowledging the challenges highlighted in the report, it is imperative that we recognise the considerable efforts and dedication of the Department of Defence and Military Veterans in fulfilling its constitutional mandate.
The ANC commends the department for its commitment for defending and protecting the Republic, its territorial, integrity and its people.
In the face of complex challenges the department has shown resilience and determination. We appreciate the ongoing work to address issues raised by the Auditor-General emphasising the importance of consequence management for improved governance.
The ANC understands the agency of filling key positions within the department and we encourage expedited efforts to ensure a stable leadership structure. We also recognise the department’s commitment to fulfilling international
obligations such as the United Nations, UN, mission in the Democratic Republic of Congo.
We acknowledge with regarding the Southern African Development Community, SADC, and the SA National Defence Force contingency in this mission are contingent on formal plans from the UN.
While concerns have been raised on budgetary constraints and the potential impact of the mediators, we affirm our commitments to working collaborately to ensure sustained funding for critical initiatives.
The ANC supports the call for increased funding for border safeguarding technology patrol vehicles and upgrading of naval air force capabilities. The ANC support this report. Thank you, hon House Chairperson.
Motion agreed to.
Report accordingly agreed to.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS ON 2022-
23 ANNUAL REPORT OF DEPARTMENT OF MILITARY VETERANS
There was no debate.
Ms G K Tseke moved: That the Report be adopted.
Declaration(s) of vote:
Mr S J F MARAIS: Chair, this is one of the most dysfunctional departments and is typical of the ANC's failed state and the disrespectful way the government is treating our military veterans who fought on both sides and sacrificed their lives so we can have a democratic future. The slow pace of rolling out the pension benefits is painful for military veterans as many of them relied on the Cabinet promises but are still waiting and will face another dark and suffering Christmas.
Another concern is that a number of military veterans have thus far not received their promised houses due to the failure by the department and the Department of Human Settlements to provide them with adequate houses, which failure has led to the invasion of privately-owned properties, for instance, in Aloe Ridge flats in Westgate, Pietermaritzburg. Why should private businesses suffer the consequences of the failing government departments? The failure of the Department of Military Veterans to finalise the Subsidised Public Transport Strategy is making it extremely difficult for military veterans to access services, for instance, health care when
they are unemployed and cannot afford public or taxi transport costs.
The failure by the department to submit its annual financial statements, performance plan and annual report for auditing within the prescribed time frame is unacceptable and is clear proof that this department has dismally failed to deliver on its mandate and the Minister of Defence and Military Veterans should be ashamed that this is happening under her watch. We appeal to the Minister to pay more attention and ensure that this department delivers to deserving military veterans as required by the law. I thank you.
Mr W T I MAFANYA: Chair. The Military Veterans Department has been dragged down by sheer incompetence, unskilled labour and lack of consequence management. The department can hardly account for vacant senior positions that have become a source of nonservice delivery to military veterans. The military veterans’ houses have been allocated to non-military veterans across the provinces. There are no measures to counter illegal occupants. There are companies registered under military veterans that get preferential tenders and yet the recipients are not military veterans. The EFF rejects this budget.
Thank you, Chair.
Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: House Chairperson, the state of our Department of Military Veterans and the challenges faced by those who have dedicated their lives to safeguarding our nation's sovereignty have long been a burning issue for the IFP. The important mission of this department has, unfortunately, witnessed a decline in effectiveness over the past few years, due to inadequate government management.
Our military veterans, the custodians of our national defence, have faced a series of hardships that demand our urgent attention.
The poor treatment meted out to our military veterans has manifested in the long-awaited payment of pensions. The report paints a worrisome picture that many deserving veterans have not received their rightful pension payments on time. The wait has been over two years and there still exists some who have not received their pay-outs which begs the question, what has the government been doing all this time? Furthermore, the housing needs of a significant majority of our military veterans have been neglected. This oversight is deeply concerning, as the very individuals who put their lives on the
line for our nation find themselves without the basic necessity of a home and it is imperative that we address this shortcoming. The situation is dire within this department.
There is a scenario where the medical aid contributions system lacks continuity, leaving our heroes without a well-planned and arranged way of accessing health care during treatment.
This gap in the system is an insult to those who have sacrificed so much for our nation. Thank you, we support the report.
Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, the ACDP shares the concerns that have been expressed about this situation facing our military veterans and the budgetary constraints. We believe that far more should be done in this regard and the report highlights the deficiencies in this regard. I would quickly just like to address the issue, to suggest that Israeli forces committed the atrocities is preposterous, on 7 October, in the extreme, particularly when Hamas themselves boasted of the attacks and spread videos on social media of their barbaric attacks, I thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Unless, hon members, I know that certain parties feel offended if I have to call
them, these are declarations. I only have the party’s name, so don't be offended if I call your party.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Chairperson, let me start by saying that I think we seem to have many Judas Iscariots, even in this National Assembly, that no matter what, they will try to defend the atrocities that are being committed. Let us also not forget it is the very same state of Israel that colluded with apartheid South Africa that these military veterans of ours gave their lives to protect South Africa and liberate us, and it is for that reason that we need to ensure that they are well taken care of.
Whether you talk about pension, whether you talk about medical aid, whether you talk about housing. These servants many of whom gave up their lives fighting this apartheid government, must be well taken care of, and it is very disappointing to note that this department particularly has not spent the monies that were allocated and there are concerns being raised, particularly by the military veterans. So let us take care of them. Let us ensure that they are quite happy, and I want to reiterate this. It is the Israeli Defence Force. This has come first-hand information from Jewish hostages who came there, unannounced, opened fire and killed many Israelis. Let
us not run away from it. There's no doubt that Hamas did attack on 7 October. There's no dispute about that. When did the people die? It was only when the Israeli Defence Force opened fire without even warning those who were there. Now this is not coming from Hamas. This is coming from the Israelis themselves, but remember, once a Judas, always a Judas. You're not going to be able to change that as long as there is money available, they will distort all the truths. The NFP supports this report.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I'm going to ask the Speaker if there was a request for the showing of any money or something in the House. As we know, everything that you ... even placards, you have to get permission first. So I'm going to check on that.
Mr M NYHONTSO: Hon Chair, whilst we support this report, there's a lot that must be addressed to the military veterans, the issues of housing allowances to veterans, the issues of medical aid. When a military veteran passes away, the wife of the military veteran does not get help from the medical facilities in the army. So, we must address those issues in the military, including the issue of verification that is not yet resolved. If those issues can be resolved, I think it
would be better for military veterans because they are dying every day. Otherwise, the PAC supports this report.
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon House
Chairperson, this financial year marks the beginning of the payout of pension benefits to deserving military veterans. We applaud the department for making this giant leap. We know that not all military veterans receive their benefits. We are aware that the benefit is short of what was expected. However, this is a welcome beginning.
The department is currently working on the transport benefits. This proves to be an uphill battle, given that our transport network does not have an enabling support framework. The department is working to address weaknesses that have been identified, which have impacted the military veterans receiving uninterrupted support.
The Appeal Board has been populated with new board members. It paves the way for those who are aggrieved by the decisions of the officials and can then seek recourse with this body. The ANC supports this report. Thank you.
Motion agreed to.
Report accordingly adopted.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON EMPLOYMENT AND LABOUR
There was no debate.
Ms G K Tseke moved: That the Report be adopted.
Declaration(s) of Vote:
Dr M J CARDO: Hon Chairperson, the Budgetary Review and Recommendations Reports of the Portfolio Committee on Employment and Labour is not worth the paper it’s printed on. South Africa has one of the highest unemployment rates in the world, coming on for 45%. But the Department of Employment and Labour is like a deer in the headlights and the portfolio committee’s recommendations are of no help to the deer.
Our dear Minister has apparently given orders to spend more than R15 billion from the UIF’s surplus funds on creating
2 million work opportunities before the end of the financial year in March. If these reports are true, then clearly the Minister is in panic mode. The instruction is irrational and a recipe for looting. The UIF and the equally ill-starred
Compensation Fund, can’t even file their annual financial statements on time. Productivity SA is singularly unproductive, but you will be hard pressed to find anything of substance about any of this in the BRRR. Sadly, the Department of Employment and Labour has failed to tackle its expanded mandate of job creation.
The department should be focusing its efforts on supporting labour intensive sectors like light manufacturing and tourism to create new jobs and take on new workers. Through labour market deregulation, the department should be making it easier for businesses to absorb large numbers of relatively unskilled workers into productive employment and it should be championing the cause of small business owners who are being choked by the extension of collective bargaining agreements and other onerous labour regulations. In the face of these challenges, the observations and recommendations contained in this report are weak tea and the DA cannot ... [Inaudible.]
... Thank you.
Ms C N MKHONTO: Chair, this country’s labour relations legislations and policies, the department’s annual performance plans and the oversight activities executed by the portfolio committee, are adequate to change the labour relations
environment for the better in terms of job creation and enforcement of workers’ rights. The biggest challenge is the Minister and the department who constantly shows signs of lack of capacity to avail both financial and human resources to implement the said policies.
Legislation empowers the Minister to hold accountable the employers who deliberately undermine CCMA awards in favour of the workers. Labour inspectors don’t have vehicles designed for off-roading; hence it is almost impossible for them to do inspections in the farming sector. Corrupt, incompetent irrelevantly or underqualified officials are hellbent in mismanaging the finances of the department and its entities. When time comes right, and they feel they have looted enough, they resign to evade accountability.
Come 2024, we call on registered voters to vote for the EFF. The only political organisation with a labour desk that is always determined to fight for the rights of the poor and neglected workers 24/7. The EFF supports the Budget Review report and its recommendations. I thank you, Chair.
Mr S L NGCOBO: Hon Chair, it is with a deep sense of concern that the state of our labour and job sectors in South Africa
is in turmoil. Over the past few years, we have witnessed a significant decline, and last week’s debate emphasised a crucial role of a willing government with robust mechanisms for accountability and governance in reducing poverty and unemployment.
The recent loss of 97 000 jobs year-on-year between March 2022 and March 2023, with an additional decrease of 21 000 jobs in the first quarter alone, paints a worrisome picture. The trend of job-shedding offers little hope for recovering industries because of the aftermath of the COVID-19 pandemic. It is particularly concerning that, despite numerous calls for government intervention to promote job creation, five out of eight industries have yet to recover from the impact of COVID- 19.
In addition to these alarming employment statistics, the committee’s scrutiny of the annual reports of the department and its entities has revealed areas that urgently demand our attention and corrective action. It is unacceptable that both the Unemployment Insurance Fund and the Compensation Fund have failed to submit their annual financial statements and annual performance reports for the second consecutive year, showing an unwillingness to be democratically accountable to the
people of this country. This lack of submission impedes our ability as Parliament, and more importantly, the people to exercise oversight, accountability, and offer corrective measures.
Furthermore, across government, we are seeing a growing number of entities that operate as if they are unaccountable and as if state funds are their own to do as they please. Thank you very much. Anyway, we support the report. [Time expired.]
Mr W W WESSELS: Hon Chairperson, the performance of this department and its entities leaves much to be desired. It is clear that the Minister is only interested in driving his outdated ANC agenda instead of ensuring that his department and its entities is properly managed to the benefit of the people out there. The UIF and Compensation Fund, the two largest entities of this department and the two entities on which desperate South Africans are most dependent, have yet again failed to submit their annual financial statements and performance plans for audit, and are completely dysfunctional.
The department is responsible for these entities and fail to perform any consequence management. There have been calls to place the UIF under administrations. Calls that the Minister
ignorantly ignored, and the Compensation Fund is currently undergoing another turnaround strategy. Further confirmation that everything the ANC touches is in need of a turnaround strategy. The Thuja Capital Fund scandal happened under the Ministers nose and is another example of mismanagement and a lack of oversight by political heads. It’s also proof of political heads being involved in the most shameful scandals whilst those below them have to take the blame.
It brings me to the Minister’s comrades on the portfolio committee, who instead of ensuring that there is proper oversight, actually only does PR for the department. The chairperson refuses to heed warnings and observation from members of the opposition and only supports the ANC PR agenda. This contributes to the mismanagement and failure of this department. The FF Plus does not support this report. [Time expired.]
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: House Chairperson, the NFP will support the report tabled here today. But allow me also to draw the attention of this House to my concerns that when this war started in Israel, 18 500 workers were affected. Many of them remain missing up to this very single day, perhaps sold in detention zones. And if you look at the plight of the workers
in the hospitals with no water, no electricity, no medicines, to such an extent some of these workers reported that when they were treating patients, patients had maggots because there was nothing there to actually clean them. That’s how the situation is in Gaza after the Zionist State of Israel had bombed these hospitals and these are how the workers have been treated. In fact, 3200 workers were chased back to Gaza on the
7 October.
Now, one of my concerns locally is just that it’s the problem of foreign nationals that are working in the country earning a minimum salary of R60 a day at the expense of locals.
Inspectors in the country are doing very little or nothing to ensure that there is compliance which affects our unemployment rate in the country. But very importantly also, I want to raise the issue of the very stringent labour conditions on the ground which is making it very difficult for small businesses to survive. With the number of cheap imports coming into the country, and the stringent labour conditions that small businesses have to meet - which they can’t - businesses are closing down, and the high level of unemployment is the reason as a result of that. I think we need to address that there needs to be some balance so that businesses can be more
successful, employ more people at the same time. The NFP supports this report. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Shelembe, please.
Setswana:
Ke kgale o nnete go tshwenya.
English:
Mr M NONTSELE: House Chairperson, minus the hysteria that was presented here by the DA and hallucinations of ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Is your mic on?
Mr M NONTSELE: You can’t hear me?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Yes, I hear you now. Sorry.
Mr M NONTSELE: Thanks, House Chair. I am saying minus the hysteria and the hallucinations, as the ANC, we appreciate the commitment by the department to speedily deal with all issues raised by the Auditor General with regard to Unemployment Insurance Fund and Compensation Fund who failed timeously to
submit their annual financial statements and performance reports for the 2022-23 financial year, including the previous one. The commitment by the department to correct this problem, including dealing with attendant issues of the audit action plans, as has now happened, is highly appreciated.
It should be noted that the department’s performance has significantly improved, more so with the unqualified audit outcome in some of its entities that include the CCMA, including the department itself, ... [Inaudible.] ... with matters of emphasis, Nedlac and even Productivity SA. We note and appreciate support steps taken by hon Minister on the irregular allocation of R5 billion to a company whose credentials are questionable. For this being an indication that our commitment by the ANC-led government to uproot corruption knows no boundaries. This includes steps taken to recover funds fraudulently allocated during COVID-19 pandemic, through fraudulent ... [Inaudible.] ... claims and allocations.
We agree that Nedlac, when social partners interact, should continue to collaborate to resolve outstanding issues that relate to fulfilment of economic reconstructing and recovery plan objectives, as well as to include, but not limited to the
agreements and finalisation of the social compact. The recent upswing ... The ANC support the report. [Time expired.]
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON FINANCE
There was no debate.
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY moved: That the
Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Dr J N DE VILLERS: Thank you, chair. So, the ANC government doesn’t have to tell us what they care for, we can just look at the provincial allocations budget and the budget will tell you what they care for. So, R125 million cut from Agricultural Support Programme. So, they don’t care about emerging farmers.
Seven million cut from the Land Care Programme, which is for poverty relief. So, they don’t care about the poor. Fifty- eight million cut from early childhood development and
R1,6 billion cut from education infrastructure. So, they don’t care about children. Twenty-eight million cut from the HIV and Aids grant and R1 billion cut from the District Health Programme grant, R440 million cut from the Health Facility grant. So, they don’t care about the sick. Fifty million cut from Maths, Science, and Technology grant, R68 million cut from Community Library grant. So, they don’t care about education. One comma seven billion rand cut from Human Settlements development and R477 million cut from Informal Settlements Upgrading Partnerships. So, they don’t care about houses and land reform, R31 million and cut from the Expanded Public Works Programme. So, they don’t care about employment opportunities for the unemployed and R550 million cut from the Provincial Road Maintenance grant. So, they don’t care about road infrastructure.
Lastly, R17,5 billion increased for ANC state millionaire managers because the only people the ANC really cares about is the cadres who become richer and richer while the South Africans become poorer and poorer. And that is why DA Premier, Ellen Windy has declared an intergovernmental dispute with
Treasury, because the DA-led Western Cape finds it unacceptable that over a billion rand of budgeted funds for service delivery in the province have been cut from their allocation. And unlike the ANC, the DA cares. Thank you.
Chair.
Mr M MANYI: House Chair, from the outset, the EFF wants to make it abundantly clear that both the Minister and his director-general’s response to the grey-listing by the Financial Action Task Force, FATF, was underwhelming, they simply kicked for touch. The National Treasury’s failure to improve audit quality to clean audit raises concern about Treasury’s capacity to provide exemplary leadership in financial management. The Auditor-General reported a lack of disclosure by the National Treasury regarding the reasons for fruitless and wasteful expenditure related to the infamous Integrated Financial Management System project. What are they hiding? Questions arise on financial oversight and management as National Treasury requires condonation for a substantial R265 millions of irregular expenditure, eroding confidence in the department. National Treasury’s refusal to accept findings on irregular expenditure from both the Auditor-General and the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, raises concern about accountability, arrogance, and disrespect for specialist
institutions. The Auditor-General’s confirmation of 66 dysfunctional municipalities highlights the impact of cadre deployment gone wrong, contributing to incompetence and the lack of required skills. Whereas the EFF commends the Office of the Tax Ombud, OTO, in that 80% of the rulings were in favour of the taxpayer, however, it is concerning that the Sars was in the wrong for 80% of the time.
The EFF expresses concern regarding the disappearance of the drugs bust by the Sars in KwaZulu-Natal - that is still within the Hawks - and this is raising questions about the corruption at the highest levels.
As I conclude, the EFF is concerned about the noncompliance to the employment equity targets by top management at the Sara.
The fact that we have three top men there, where are the women? Finally, Chair, the EFF condemns the Minister for failure to communicate plans for the expiring term of the current Sars ... [Time expired.] ... the time for an African woman at the helm of Sars has come. The EFF rejects ...
Mr L L VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson, let me make an input on behalf of hon Inkosi Buthelezi. The nation and subsequently the economy have been praised for being resilient and for
weathering the storms that come with hardship and a lack of economic growth. But the truth is that our economy remains in intensive care unit, ICU, because of the ruling party’s mismanagement, corruption, and lack of vision.
The shrinking economy illustrates once more that this government’s promises to address socioeconomic challenges such as poverty, unemployment, and dire inequality remains nothing but wishful thinking. Of grave concern is that the recent MTBS reveal a multibillion-dollar revenue shortfall linked to a reduction in spending by consumers as well as South Africa’s ever-increasing unemployment levels. Then we have the crisis about our state-owned enterprises, SOEs, the continued bailouts are draining our fiscus, throwing money, for example, at Eskom without clear intervention plans is a futile exercise. Then budget cuts to key programmes which will affect the lives and livelihoods of the poorest speaks to out of touch government.
Chairperson, there is one bright light and that is there is an election in 2024. Our people deserve hope and job opportunities, not just the R350. They deserve to live in a country where the resources are not stolen through a corrupt government. They deserve a stable and thriving economy, which
can only be achieved in 2024 by a change in government. I thank you.
Afrikaans:
Mnr W W WESSELS: Huisvoorsitter, dit is belangrik om die krisis by die Nasionale Tesourie te herken en te erken. Jaar na jaar word dit misken. Die feit is dat, wanneer jy ’n Nasionale Tesourie het wat self nie behoorlike finansiële kontrole oor sy eie finansies en entiteite uitvoer nie, hoe kan hy dit doen? Hoe kan hy sy grondwetlike mandaat om dit en oor ander departemente te doen, dan vervul? Dit is hoekom ons openbare finansies in so ’n groot krisis is. Die Nasionale Tesourie kan nie eens sy eie boeke ordentlik bestuur nie.
Die ander krisis is die feit dat die Nasionale Tesourie jaar na jaar verkeerde voorspellings maak. Elke keer met ’n Februarie-begroting, of wanneer die groeikoerse voorspel word, wanneer die begrotingstekort voorspel word, wanneer ander belangrike vooruitskattings, waarop die hele begroting gegrond is, word daar nie gekyk na goed wat wel voorsien kan word nie. Hoekom? Daar is politieke invloed en nie wetenskaplike, wiskundige, ekonomiese en logiese benadering nie.
Die Nasionale Tesourie is gekaap en laat homself deur politieke ideologie lei, en nie deur wat werklik belangrik is om hierdie land se fiskale posisie te verbeter en die ekonomie te herstel nie. Ek dank u.
Mr S N SWART: House Chair, the ACDP share the concerns that have been expressed about the dire fiscus situation facing our nation and the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement, MTBPS, as reflected in this report, made it clear that the economic growth outlook is very precarious mainly because of ongoing cuts, the logistics crisis, high inflation, and rising borrowing costs. These rising borrowing costs are set to crowd out much-needed expenditure on other much-needed items such as crime fighting, education, and health. We are facing a fiscal crisis, and it is due to expenditure on state-owned enterprises, SOEs, and unlimited challenges at ports and rail and we now see that Transnet is looking for R100 billion bailout, we see logistics challenges of kilometres long, trucks at Richards Bay, and of ships in Durban. This cannot continue.
The previous financial years and following COVID-19, we almost had a windfall tax collection as a result the commodities boom which has now fallen away and we are facing a fiscal crisis.
The ACDP is deeply concerned about this issue as reflected upon in this report. I thank you.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAN: House Chairperson, the NFP supports the report tabled here today. Let me start off by saying this department achieved 60% of its targets. One of the major concerns is something that we raised and that was the integrated financial management system. Can you imagine if the National Treasury pay for services that they didn’t receive, where invoices were not even provided and that was at the highest level. Treasury is supposed to be the custodian of the funds in this country.
While we welcome the Sars clean audit, they must work like they do when they go after us. It is very important that Sars should relax when it comes to South Africans and go after foreign nationals in this country through whom there is so much illicit financial flows. There are no compliance measures in place with these foreign businesses. We again want to say that unless you delink them from local and provincial government and link them directly to Sars. These monies are going to leave the country, no accountability. If you collect monies from every foreign-owned business in South Africa, I am quite convinced that we will be able to reduce the taxes on
local South Africans. Right now, it is like taking the blood out of the bone.
Let me also draw your attention to what is happening in Palestine. How the Israelis are using the economy ... restricting the flow of money that rightfully belongs to the Palestinian people to such an extent that they are suffocating them, on one hand through military intervention and on the other through ... which rightfully belongs to them. So, you can see the challenges in ... for that reason, workers are not getting paid, but they are so committed and dedicated for the course, that is why they are where we are. So, we call upon National Treasury to put more measures in place. Borrowing money for consumption is a disaster. Thank you. The NFP supports the report.
Mr S M JAFTA: House Chairperson, unfortunately, I am using the chairperson’s gadget. We are on the way. I cannot ... but we support the report.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Are you on hon Luzipho’s gadget?
Mr S M JAFTA: Yes, House Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Okay, now I get it. Thank you.
Mr S M JAFTA: I have a connection problem.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No problem. Thank you.
Ms G K TSEKE: House Chair, I stand on behalf of the ANC to support the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report of the Standing Committee on Finance. We welcome the efforts of the National Treasury which remain steadfast in its commitment to stimulating economic growth, upholding the integrity of the fiscal framework, implementing a redistributive budget, and advancing the effective the governance of public finances.
The department has intensified efforts to establish stability within local government, state-owned companies, and the public debt landscape.
House Chair, the National Treasury’s annual report for the 2022-23 fiscal year reveals a notable 80,36% of the annual performance plan indicators fully achieved, 14,2% partially achieved, and 5,3% not achieved. The combined partially and not achieved targets amounts to 19% of the total, pinpointing
areas that require enhanced focus and strategies to improve efficiency and effectiveness in the upcoming strategic framework and fiscal cycle.
We are concerned that National Treasury’s performance in 2022-
23 fiscal year marked a decline compared to previous years.
This regression is observable from the 88,3% achievement in 2020-21 and 83,3% in 2019-20. We further note the enhanced audit outcomes for the department compared to the previous years with 11 entities scoring unqualified audit opinions with no findings. This constitutes 69% of the audit in the portfolio marking a significant improvement from the 37% recorded in the previous year.
We fundamentally believe that the attainment ... [Time expired.] [Inaudible.] ... not only be clean audits but should unequivocally translate into enhanced service delivery, elevating the lived experience of the people. Thank you.
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
UNPARLIAMENTARY LANGUAGE
(Ruling)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, on the 15th of November 2023 during the debate on the revised Fiscal Framework, hon B A Radebe rose on a point of order to contend that hon Manyi had used unparliamentary language in respect of the Minister of Finance. Having now had an opportunity to study the unrevised Hansard, I wish to rule as follows. The remarks of hon Manyi were:
It is telling that the Minister of Finance decided to table such a supposedly important policy statement and Bills related to adjustments, budgets and revenue, and other Bills, and thereafter decided to go on leave. He could not even wait to finalise the process with Parliament because the people of South Africa are not taken seriously.
I remind members that the privilege of freedom of speech enables us to raise and pursue matters of public interest. This privilege is only limited by the rules of Parliament. The
rules in turn were not intended to constrain members but rather to ensure that reasoned debate can occur.
Hon members, the remarks of hon Manyi are a political statement. It may not be liked or agreed with. Moreover, I want to say that when somebody is on leave and they say he is sick, we need to be considerate, whether it’s family responsibility leave or sick leave. When we talk, we must be considerate.
However, hon members, as I said the remarks by hon Manyi are a poli8tical statement. It may not be liked or agreed with. I therefore do not find the remarks to be unparliamentary as the point of order requested. Thank you. We may proceed with the business of the day.
UNPARLIAMENTARY LANGUAGE
(Ruling)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, on Tuesday, the 21st of November during the debate on the statement by the Minister in the Presidency on the Census 2022 results, Dr Mulder rose on a point of order and said the
following: “Once again, the hon Shaik Emam finds it impossible to talk about the subject on the Order Paper. He is referring to issues that have been discussed in Parliament”.
I ruled that at that time it was not possible to rule that the remark by Mr Shaik Emam was irrelevant. I allowed hon Shaik Emam to continue with his speech. As he did so, he made the following remarks:
Hon Mulder has a problem. His problem is that he is used to the idea of wanting to dictate and have that baas mentality where he’s the boss and others are the workers. That is his problem.
Hon Swart rose on a point of order and submitted that Mr Shaik Emam had cast aspersions on Dr Mulder. I informed the House that I would consult Hansard and revert with a ruling.
Having had the opportunity to study Hansard, I rule as follows. In terms of Rule 85, no member may impute improper motives to any other member or cast personal reflections upon a member’s integrity or dignity or verbally abuse a member in any other way. The use of the word baas to refer to another member has been ruled as unparliamentary on a number of
occasions in this House. The phrase “baas mentality” has historical connotations to our country. It invokes a time when white persons accorded themselves a superior status to other races, that in their view were supposed to be servile and inferior.
To reflect on Dr Mulder as such, particularly in the context that, he is used to dictating to others, implies that Dr Mulder regards himself as superior, based on his race. That impugned the dignity of Dr Mulder. Hon members, it cannot be overemphasised that when members participate in debates in the House, they have a unique opportunity to actively inculcate and promote the values of tolerance, diversity and inclusivity, and to set a standard in that regard for the populace to heed. Whilst we are expected to be passionate and robust in confronting issues that we debate in the House, we must also show respect and restraint, and avoid inflammatory and divisive references to one another.
Hon Shaik Emam, will you stand? Your reference to Dr Mulder as having a “baas mentality” is unparliamentary and I order you to withdraw that remark.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: [Inaudible.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you very much. We will now proceed with the business of the day as I ask the secretary to read the 18th Order.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TRADE, INDUSTRY AND COMPETITION
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Thank you, House
Chairperson. I move that the report be adopted.
Declaration of votes:
Mr D W MACPHERSON: House Chairperson, the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition is now rapidly speeding up the deindustrialisation of South Africa, adding to joblessness, driving up inflation and forcing manufacturers and multinationals to reconsider their investments in our country. The destruction that the department and the ANC government has brought on ordinary people is best illustrated in the recently released Harvard Growth Lab report titled, “Growth through Inclusion in South Africa” by renowned economist Ricardo Hausmann. It is safe to say that no one in the ANC or the EFF has actually read that report, because that would be too much work for them. So, let me outline its findings. Professor Hausmann clearly states, and I quote, “Things have been made
worse by a mistaken belief that preferential procurement rules could be imposed on complex organisations such as the network industries at little cost. Rather, these rules have been overburdened critical public organisations by adding financial costs, reducing effectiveness and expanding space for patronage systems to take hold.”
Let us be clear, the broad-based black economic empowerment, BBBEE, under the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition is the foundation that preferential procurement is built on and continues to be expanded and used as a sledgehammer by the Minister and the ANC to inflict even more damage on our country to enrich the ANC elite. The report found that the state on average paid 30% more for goods and services. And now the new procurement policy will allow qualifiers to pay three times more for the same competitive goods. This is nothing other than ANC-sponsored corruption. That’s why the DA has tabled the social impact Bill, which will repeal BBBEE from procurement, so that the R1 trillion in government spending is spent on South Africans and not on members of the ANC to make them rich.
This week, Volkswagen, VW’s, international brand boss, Thomas Schäfer, said that he was very worried about the
competitiveness of South Africa and I quote: “We’re not in the business of charity.” He said that that VW workers had done all that they could to mitigate the country’s problems. [Time expired.] The DA does not support this report. Thank you. [Interjections.]
Mr E MTHETHWA: Madam Chair, I wish to bring to the attention of this House that they need to pray for Zahara, who is critically ill, and in intensive care unit, ICU, due to the deteriorating condition of the liver. The EFF wishes her a speedy recovery. EFF rejects the report because we know that the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition will not bring the necessary changes in this country under the current government. This department could have been at the centre of major economic development and job creation, adding billions to our fiscus by escalating numbers of unemployed speak the contrary.
The Department of Trade, Industry and Competition insist that in the period under review, it focused on attracting and retaining investments which resulted in facilitating an increase in localisation, exports, support for regional integration, particularly capitalising on opportunities brought by the African Continental Free Trade Agreement. But
if this was true, Madam Speaker, this would have translated to an increased fiscus as opposed to the budget cuts that we are faced with.
The EFF says that the economic reconstruction and recovery plan and reimagined industrial strategy would have been tools to change South Africa’s fortunes as these provide incentives through the automotive incentive scheme, the Black Industrialist Programme, Agro-Processing Support Scheme, Strategic Partnership Programme, Aquaculture Development and Enhancement Programme, and Clothing and Textile Competitiveness Programme. The truth is that these programmes will not result in positive returns for South Africa as the current state is incapable of delivering what it promises. [Time expired.] Because of that, as the EFF rejects the report.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon member, you must look at that clock, it will help you. Thank you very much. I now recognise the IFP.
Inks R N CEBEKHULU: Chairperson, the IFP would like to comment the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition on receiving its sixth consecutive clean audit opinion with no irregular
expenditure or fruitless and wasteful expenditure incurred for the 2022-23 financial year. Concerning the constant mismanagement with within governmental department, this department serves as a breath of fresh air. The IFP welcomes the department for embarking on the process of restructuring. As we often see, governmental departments are necessarily loaded, which places a heavy budgetary strain on programme one. However, considering there are quite a high number of posts that are no longer regarded as necessary for the functioning of the department, coupled with the fact that there are a number of senior managerial positions still vacant, it is our hope that there are sections within the department that have been left completely as this will cause great instability.
Furthermore, the IFP calls upon the department to address the anti-competitive behaviour of poultry feed producers as swiftly as possible, as it is heavily affecting the cost of poultry products for consumers. Food security, especially in rural areas, is already one of the biggest challenges our country faces. We cannot allow the greed of the few further burden poorer household and small-scale poultry farmers. We support the report.
Mr F J MULDER: Hon House Chairperson, the Department for Trade, Industry and Competition have been allocated R10,8 billion for the 2022-23 financial year, down from
R11,8 billion in the 2021-22 financial year. The critical role of this department in the economy, growth and job creation trajectory is highly underestimated as it is rolled out in its
10 programmes. The current headwinds that South Africa is tracing such as avian influenza and load shedding impedes on economic growth with a negative impact on the economy, industries and small and medium and micro enterprises as it disrupts the manufacturing processes, load shedding, corruption, and state capture, which is of course the legacy of the ANC government.
Unfortunately, broad-based black economic empowerment reminds one of the main goals of this department, as it is already common knowledge that BBBEE, as it is rolled out by the government, is one of the main causes for state capture. South Africa is unfortunately becoming more and more so in the undesirable destiny for foreign investment, as Volkswagen recently declared. The FF Plus would have supported this Budgetary Review and Recommendations Report, BRRR, if it was not for the poor governments, bad policy and corruption and BBBEE. We do not support the report. Thank you, Chair.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Chairperson, you should give a bonus for attendance, maybe it might be different. The NFP supports the report on the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition. However, we have a few concerns that we want to raise. First of all, of course, is the issue of the cheap imports into the country which is having a devastating effect on the manufacturing sector. If you remember, we’ve had one of the most vibrant textile industries in South Africa. It’s as good as gone. We had one of the most vibrant leather industry, and that’s as good as gone. We had one of the most vibrant plastic industry, it’s as good is gone. That is because we continue to
... and I do understand and accept there will be a balance of trade, but not to the extent that it affects your own manufacturing sectors and creates joblessness in the country. So, I think it’s something that we need to address.
The other problem that I have, and it’s a very serious problem, which I think the Competition Commission needs to do a lot more, is on the high prices and how these prices are being manipulated right from the manufacturer right down to the retailer. You would find that roundabout the middle of the month - just when they know people are going to get paid, you’ll see how the prices start shooting up. Every supermarket puts five or 10 items on special and the rest they put up 40%
to 50% mark up. That’s why I say there can’t be a Black Friday, especially with the amount of profit they are making.
Lastly, I want to address the issue of ... when we talk about trade and food products and many others coming into the country, this stuff should have been blocked at the border between Egypt and Gaza, not allowed to enter our country.
Every container should be searched and food, medicines and removed. The most essential stuff should be removed in order to get people to die. How barbaric can it to die of starvation, in other words - a slow death. That is how barbaric is the state of Israel. The NFP supports this report. Thank you.
Mr M NYHONTSO: Chair, no declaration, but we support the report.
Ms J HERMANS: The ANC supports the BRRR of the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition. The Portfolio Committee oversees the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition and its 18 entities. One of the committees’ roles is to assess how the financial and nonfinancial resources of the department and its entities are utilised in achieving their mandates in the relation to facilitating inclusive economic growth and job
creation, thus contributing to the reduction of inequality and poverty levels.
During its engagement with the department, the committee scrutinised the use of the 11,8 billion budget allocation for the 2022-23 financial year. The Department of Trade, Industry and Competition had achieved 97% of its nonfinancial performance targets and spent 99,6% of its budget and achieved a clean audit outcome. Over 71% of the department’s funds were spent on supporting business growth and assisting entrepreneurs to start new businesses, thus ensuring that existing jobs can be retained and creating new jobs.
There has been progress in resolving audit concerns and improving governance within the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition’s entities, particularly the outcomes of the National Regulator for Compulsory Specifications and the SA Bureau of Standards, SABS. However, there are challenges that should be addressed, which include the finalisation of the policy related to the manufacturing of new energy vehicles, also of importance is the ongoing negotiations for the extensions of the United States, African Growth and Opportunity Act and South Africa’s inclusion in it. We support the report.
Question put.
Objections noted.
Report agreed to.
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chair I
move that the report be adopted. Thank you.
Declarations of Vote:
Mr C H H HUNSINGER: House Chair, the majority of the 12 entities within the Department of Transport have disregarded the financial compliance of this 2023 Transport Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR requirement, making this year a particular low point for the Road Accident Fund, Road Traffic Infringement Agency, RTIA, Passenger Rail Agency of South Africa, PRASA, Railway Safety Regulator, SA Maritime Safety Authority, Samsa and others not being part of this cycle and document.
In hindsight, all that remains of the lofty goals, levels, pillars and keys listed in multiple iterations of the department and entity’s strategic plans are the embers of aspiration and dusty dreams of desire. Three broad areas of concentration in road, rail, aviation, maritime and public transportation could have been the game changing factor. This are social emancipation and a functioning economy, safety and security as facilitators of service delivery, and thirdly, the development of infrastructure that fosters economic opportunity and job creation.
Instead, the backlog of road maintenance is larger than ever. The planned submission of the road infrastructure funding policy to Cabinet was not cleared. The ... [Inaudible] ... e- tolls have not been closed down. The level of rail services remains lower than what it was in 2019. Aviation calibration is still subcontracted, and not less, but more consultants are used by Department of Transport, DoT.
By connecting people and commodities to markets and opportunities, a competitive and efficient transport system with infrastructure and service provision which will assist economic growth and development will be launched in 2024 when the DA is elected as preferred government of choice.
IsiXhosa:
Ndiyabulela ngexesha enindiphe lona.
English:
I thank you.
Afrikaans:
Baie dankie.
Dr S S THEMBEKWAYO: House Chairperson, the lack of an annual report from entities like Passenger Rail Agency of South Africa, Prasa, Railway Safety Regulator, RSR, Samsa and Road Traffic Infringement Agency, RTIA is unacceptable and we should condemn it harshly as it undermines Parliament. The Auditor-General of South Africa reports that the issues facing the department are recurring and have been in other reports over the past years. This means that the Department of Transport has consistently failed to rectify its challenges, monitor progress and do oversight on the struggling entities. The high number of vacancies in the Department of Transport are concerning, particularly with the high number of unemployed youth graduates in our country.
Chairperson, it is not true that the national and provincial road networks were rehabilitated during the period under review. Because the people of South Africa can still attest to driving in inadequate roads with potholes. If you drive on the N2 in Kokstad and across South Africa, our roads are in poor conditions and without maintenance. It is also factually incorrect that the S’hamba Sonke Provincial Road Maintenance Programme continues to prioritise rehabilitation and resurfacing old surface roads, black top patching, blading, and graveling of gravel roads during the reporting period.
If you travel to Eastern Cape as we speak, even the gravel roads are terrible. Schoolchildren in Centane are fixing gravel roads because they want to go to school. But the ANC government denies them that right through denying them access to roads. This is why the Auditor-General found material statements with the annual performance report submitted by the department for auditing. The ANC continues to misrepresent and manipulate our people. [Time expired.] Thank you.
Mr K P SITHOLE: Hon House Chairperson, the subject of e-tolls has been a burning matter that has reached beyond this Parliament into previous Parliaments. The IFP has consistently raised our concerns regarding e-tolls in the Sixth Parliament
and we have used every opportunity to raise these concerns from questions to declarations. Year-on-year we have received promises and heard multiple statements from multiple Ministers where firm but empty promises were made to South African citizens to scrap the e-tolls. A system clearly devoid of any public participation and best practice governance models which has led South Africans to say that enough is enough.
However, the government’s response was to kick-for-touch to ensure that people are still being billed for e-toll amounts. It is the government’s duty to provide infrastructure so that businesses can flourish. The government thinks this money is theirs to loot and use however they want. However, these funds should be used to improve existing infrastructure. The poor performance of this department is now evident in the infinite number of potholes in our roads. Its half-baked plans to fill the potholes is an intangible solution.
Roads are dangerous to drive on and the Department’s underspending as highlighted in the report does not leave us with much confidence in its ability to rectify these matters. Notwithstanding these comments, the IFP does accept the report Thank you very much hon Chair.
Mr W W WESSELS: House Chair, the Department of Transport has completely failed whilst it should be the backbone of the economy. The department and its entities were the biggest victims of state capture and are still exposed to high levels of corruption and exploitation. Without a functioning transport system, no sustainable economic growth will be obtained, and the necessary investments will also not occur.
The poor performance of this department is visible to all to see daily. And this department should be functioning, but the ANC and its cadres exploited this department and robbed this department. That is why we do not have a functioning public transport system. That is why we do not have a functioning railway system and that is why our road system is in such a state of decay. The only way to fix this, is to get rid of the ANC in 2024. Thank you.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Chairperson, the NFP supports the report tabled here today. We note that the department received unqualified audit opinion with findings. Of course, one of the concerns and challenges faced by this department is the issue of procurement. But, as we have always stated, this country loses an estimated 40% on goods and services annually as a result of procurement, not getting value for money and that’s
how through corruption, many of them are sustaining themselves starting chairperson at local government election.
Unless we close that gap at local government level, no delivery of services to the people on the ground, because most of the money is going into the pockets of a handful of people, more importantly, more and more assassinations will take place because it’s all about the money. So that is one of the problems. If you look at the ports at the moment, if you take the Durban Port Chairperson, there’s about 97 ships that are anchored there at the moment. We are fast losing that business because shipping companies are now going to the neighbouring ports and that is a serious concern.
The other problem we want to talk about is the accidents on the long-distance roads. The quicker we can have an efficient rail network, the better it is. But I want to say most of these accidents, heavy duty accidents, late hours of the night, early hours of the morning are because of fatigue. We don’t have any measures to deal with that.
Lastly, I want to talk about the issue of what’s happening in Palestine, where even ambulances, look at this, ambulances with patients that are about to die and need to be saved are
being blown up by the Zionist State of Israel. That’s all ... All that transport that comes through at those borders, I can tell you they have to wait for days to be cleared. This is the plight of the people in Palestine. So, if you can blow up an ambulance, then the question is, do you have human blood or animal blood? The NFP supports this? Thank you very much.
Ms M M RAMADWA: Hon Chairperson, the ANC supports the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report of the Portfolio Committee on Transport. In reviewing the budget, programmes and entities of the department, the committee recognised both the progress and the challenges which were faced by the department and its entities. The department has reflected implementation of its programmes and its entities have shown improved performance with most receiving unqualified audits.
The transport sector is a critical economic input and driver of the economy, and the implementation of infrastructure project form a critical part of the delivery of the Economic, Reconstructive and Recovery Plan. The performance by Prasa in opening up 31 rail corridors is certainly encouraging for commuters utilising the public transport sector from the working class and poor areas.
The restoration of rail stations is continuing with new rail stations planned. Enabling people with social service and markets is critical for improving the quality of life of communities. The committee will monitor further progress in this regard with keen interest. The Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report clearly states that the upgrading, refurbishment and maintenance of national and provincial roads were executed during the period under review. Performance exceeded the said quarterly targets due to ... [Time expired.] The ANC supports this report.
Tshiven?a:
Vho M M RAMADWA: Aa! Ndo livhuwa.
Question put.
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
Business of the day concluded.
The House adjourned at 17:17.
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