Hansard: NA: Mini-Plenary 2
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 16 Nov 2023
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Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
MINI PLENARY 2 - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY (VIRTUAL) THURSDAY, 16 NOVEMBER 2023
PROCEEDINGS OF HYBRID MINI-PLENARY SESSION OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Watch video here: NA: Mini-Plenary 2
Members of the mini-plenary session met on the virtual platform at 14:00.
The Acting Chairperson, Mr F D Xasa, took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
Announcement
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr F D Xasa): Before we proceed, I would like to remind members that the virtual mini plenary is deemed to be in the precinct of Parliament and constitute a meeting of the National Assembly for debating purposes only.
In addition to the Rules of virtual sittings the Rules of the National Assembly including the rules of debate will apply.
Members enjoy the same powers and privileges that apply in the sitting of the National Assembly.
The members should equally note that anything said in the virtual platform is deemed to have been said to the House and may be ruled upon. All members who have logged in shall be considered to be present and are requested to mute their microphones and only unmute when recognised to speak. This is because the microphones are very sensitive and they pick up any noise which might disturb the attention of other members. When recognised to speak, you are supposed to unmute your microphone. Where connectivity permits connect your video.
Members may make use of the icons on the bar at the bottom of their screens which has an option that allows members to raise their hands.
The Chairperson would be alerted by the secretariat while such members want to speak. When using the virtual system, members are urged to refrain from unnecessary points of orders or interjections. Lastly, I wish to remind you that we are meeting in a mini plenary session and therefore any decisions will be taken in a full plenary session of the Assembly. The first item on the Order Paper is a subject for discussion in the name of hon Jafta on: Evaluating the role played by Chapter 9 institutions in promoting constitutional democracy in postapartheid South Africa. Hon Jafta.
SUBJECT FOR DISCUSSION (Mr S M Jafta): EVALUATING THE ROLE PLAYED BY CHAPTER NINE INSTITUTIONS IN PROMOTING CONSTITUTIONAL DEMOCRACY IN POSTAPARTHEID SOUTH AFRICA.
Mr S M JAFTA: Hon Chairperson, I consider this as a very important debate in the history of our country. We must also record that the African Independent Congress will write to the Office of the Speaker to establish a high-level panel to look at the role of the Chapter 9 institutions in promoting constitutional democracy, more similar to the Motlanthe High- Level panel.
We must remind the House that the certification judgement of the 1996 Constitution by the Constitutional Court on 6 September 1996, affirmed the powers of Chapter 9 institutions as constitutionally complied with the 32 constitutional principles contained in the 1993 Constitution. The Office of the Public Protector was described in the judgement as an important instrument in advancing effective public service.
The Office of the Auditor-General was to be a watchdog over the use of public resources. It is now common course that after 1996, we emerged with amongst others the Human Rights Commission, the Commission for Gender Equality, the Independent Electoral Commission and the Commission for the
Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural Religious Communities.
Hon members, the real question before this House is, whether these institutions have fared well in promoting constitutional democracy? In other words, have they fulfilled their envisaged role in promoting constitutional democracy? For instance, we will start with the Electoral Commission, did the Constitution
... [inaudible.] ... the functions of the Independent Electoral Commission, IEC, this includes amongst others, running free and fair elections. In running the first democratic elections the IEC managed a noble process. This was complicated by the last minute entry of the IFP in the ballot paper. Beyond this the IEC has ran free and fair elections since 1994, in recognition of the wishes of the electorate thereby promoting the vibrancy of South Africa’s electoral democracy.
In affirming participatory democracy which is one of the basic tenets of our democracy, the IEC has managed to harness South African democracy. Additionally, the IECs role in promoting multiparty democracy has been commendable. The Human Rights Commission has just released a damning report on an inquiry looking into access to water and efficacy of water services in
Limpopo province. It has criticised this province for failure to provide accessible clear and quality water to the people Limpopo.
We know also that the commission has been at the front of championing constitutional democracy by defending human rights as was the case in the Jon Qwelane matter involving homosexuals. In this case, the commission approached the Constitutional Court alleging that Qwelane’s article ... [Inaudible.] ... constituted hate speech on homosexuals and contravened section 10(1) of the Equality Act. The Commission has also slammed the mud schools in rural provinces forcing the Department of Basic Education to reprioritise spending of primary school’s infrastructure. It will take, for instance, the Office of the Public Protector.
The Constitutional Court in the UDM case described the public protector as an important ... [Inaudible.] ... in the fight against the excesses of public power and corruption ... [Inaudible.] ... has been exceptional, for example, public funds which were wrongly allocated for the upgrade of the former President homestead were returned into the fiscus in the Nkandla matter. The IEC lease agreement involving corrupt
politicians was flagged as irregular by the former Public Protector, Thuli Madonsela.
We know that the report of the public protector relating to an investigation in connection with allegations of inadequate and the lack of essential services and basic infrastructure by various organs of state in certain villages within the province of the Eastern Cape, lashed out the province of the Eastern Cape for maladministration. Apart from minor limitations in the past it can be said again that the Office of the Public Protector played a meaningful role in promoting our constitutional democracy.
The Auditor-General has a constitutional obligation to audit and report on the accounts financial statements and financial management of all national, provincial state departments and administrations in all municipalities and in any institution or accounting entity required by law. Despite the damning findings against municipalities the Office of the Auditor- General has been hamstrung by lack of consequence management. The amendment of the Public Audit Management Act, which seeks to punish accounting officers ... [Inaudible.] ... irregularities were supposed to give us some reprieve that sound financial management in public administration will
obtain. This has not been so and yet one cannot deny the fact that the office of the Auditor-General is our primary vanguard for enforcing proper financial conduct in the public administration.
We now turn to both the Commission for Gender Equality and Commission for the Promotion and Protection of Rights of Cultural Religious and Linguistic Communities. Regrettably, these commissions lacked character and competency. The Gender Commission has not championed progressive reforms to combat femicide and gender-based violence. The income gender inequality has existed under its watch. It has not been able to monitor, investigate, educate, lobby, advice and report on issues concerning gender equality.
The least said about Commission for the Promotion and Protection of Rights of Cultural Religious and Linguistic Communities the better. For example, the commission has not joined court proceedings as the friend of the court on matters affecting linguistic, religious and cultural communities. It has fared dismally. In closing, as we reflect on the role of the Chapter 9 institutions, we must formalise this debate through establishing a high-level panel to evaluate the role
of Chapter 9 institutions in promoting our democracy. I thank you, hon Chairperson.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr F D Xasa): Hon members, my system keeps on breaking.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (Mr I K Morolong): House
Chairperson, the prolific and pre-eminent novelist and playwright, Ng?g? wa Thiong’o, writes his stories like food, which lose their flavour if cooked in a hurry - in his acclaimed work of fiction, Wizard of the Crow. Today we are called upon to reflect on a crucial aspect of our democratic system. It is the one that plays a pivotal role in upholding the values enshrined in our Constitution. In this reflection, we ought to tell the unfolding story of a construction of a national democratic society. This short story should not be told in a hurry, lest we risk it losing the flavour, its pursuit, promise and a hope that it holds.
Through the tempest of ... [Inaudible.] ... a promised lingers like a song to sing with each passing day. We enter into a covenant. We adorn first rays that hope will triumph, come at me. Some amongst those who wear the mantle of hon members of this august House, may seek to dismiss utility of hope in the
future. They do so because they're the greatest conveyers of contaminated news about the prospects of our democratic process.
Some ... [Inaudible.] ... about how the ANC has betrayed its mission. It is a point to remember that the Chapter 9 institution is supporting our democracy are products of the struggle against apartheid and to overcome its racist legacy. These institutions are vital instruments to aid our departure from our ugly past as well as a beacon of hope in the complex continuous construction of a national democratic society. They are the guardians of the functioning of our democracy, ensuring that the promises made to the people are not mere words on paper, but tangible rights and protections. To truly appreciate the critical role of the Chapter 9 institutions, we must delve into the historical context from which they emerged.
The dark days of apartheid cast a long shadow over our nation, leaving behind a legacy of discrimination, oppression and systematic injustice, thus the need for a robust system of constitutional standards to protect our people against excesses of power was a necessary architectural design of our democracy. In 1992 the ANC released a document ...
[Interjections.] ... policy guidelines for a democratic South Africa. In part, this document says ... [Interjections.] Can I be helped Table staff - to switch off the person who is speaking?
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr F D Xasa): Continue, hon member.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (Mr I K Morolong): Thank
you very much and I hope I will regain lost time. [Interjections.] ...invest in the people of South Africa. Their will shall be expressed by the democratically elected representatives in periodic free and fair elections. These elected representatives will adopt a Constitution which will be the highest law of the land ... [Inaudible.] ... their basic rights, indirect contemplation of the Public Protector, ready to govern continues.
The ANC proposes that a full-time independent office of the ombudsman shall be created, with the wide powers to investigate complaints against members of the public service and other holders of public office and to investigate allegations of corruption, abuse of their powers, ruthless and maladministration. The ombudsman shall have the power to
provide adequate remedies. This shall be appointed by and answerable to Parliament. We have quoted that our passages from the 1992 ANC policy guidelines for a democratic South Africa to underscore the historical evolution of our democratic dispensation and the creation of this support instrument, such as the Chapter 9 institutions.
The ANC, as the chief architect of our democracy, has always understood and appreciated that for democracy to fully function, it must enjoy support of all the people. For the people to fully enjoy their democratic rights, they need institutions that support their democratic pursuit of rights. Indeed, therefore, the significance of this institution supports our democracy, lies in the autonomy, allowing them to operate free from political interference and to fearlessly tackle issues that affect the very fabric of our society.
We understood that as we did in 1992, that the sovereignty of our state is vested in the people of South Africa. Undermining their rights will be to shake the very foundations of our democracy and state. It is in this context that the importance of institutions supporting the deepening of our democracy cannot be overemphasised. In order to realise the ideal of periodic free and fair elections as stated, the 1992 ready to
govern, the Independent Electoral Commission, IEC, was established. Over the past three decades, the IEC has stood out as a credible and functional electoral body, essentially ensuring that our peoples’ wills shall be expressed by the democratically elected representatives in periodic free and fair elections.
In the pursuit of a just and equitable society, Chapter 9 institutions play a crucial role in advancing socioeconomic rights. The Human Rights Commission, for instance, actively engages in monitoring and advocating for the realisations of economic and social rights. Their reports and recommendations contribute to the development of policies that aim to achieve the marginalised and vulnerable segments of our population.
The realisation of a capable development stage in part depends on the constitutional safeguards provided, amongst others, by Chapter 9 institutions.
Through all these investigations, the Auditor-General ensures that public resources are utilised efficiently and transparently, fostering an environment conducive for sustainable development. The Public Protector, in turn, act as the watchdog, holding those in power accountable for the exercise of public power, be it to promote good governance and
protect the public from the effects of maladministration. The democratic government, transparency, accountability and the rule of law. are paramount.
Chapter 9 institutions serve as custodians of these principles, acting as a voice for the people and a counterbalance to potential abuse of power to their investigations, to corruption, maladministration and human rights violations. These institutions ensure that their wounds of our painful past are acknowledged, addressed and ... [Inaudible.]. They are instruments in bridging the care between the ideals of our Constitution and the lived experiences of the people as a whole.
Democracy, like food, loses flavour if cooked in a hurry. The flavour of our democracy is the protection of the people against the unjust use of political power, the abuse for their human rights, the abuse of their cultural, religious and linguistic rights. They discrimination on the basis of gender, the abuse of public funds, as well as the promotion of the right to vote.
The impact of Chapter 9 institutions extends beyond the realm of policy and governance. They have significantly contributed
to the development of our legal jurisprudence. Landmark cases investigated and litigated by these institutions have set precedence, shaping the interpretation and application of our laws. This is not only strengthening our legal framework, but also serves as a beacon for future generations, guiding them towards a more just and equitable South Africa. As we reflect on the critical role of Chapter 9 institutions in advancing democracy, let us not forget the visionaries who fought for justice and equality. It is our collective responsibility as truly inducted representatives of our people to ensure that these institutions continue to evolve, adapt and fulfil their mandate.
As I said to myself, just as today is born out of the womb of yesterday, today is pregnant with tomorrow. What kind of tomorrow was Abur?ria pregnant with? Of unity or murderous divisions? Of cries or laughter? Our tomorrow is determined by what we do today. Our fate is in our hands, writes Ngugi wa Thiong’o. about the fictional state of Abur?ria in his acclaimed book, Wizard of the Crow. Answering these questions about the state of the real South Africa, we should say that South Africa is pregnant with a tomorrow that is unified, not murderously divided, that is full of laughter and not cries.
We know too well the pain of the murderous divisions of
yesterday - the cries of our yesterday, which serves as a broadcast medium of the laughter of our tomorrow. I am ending here. Thank you so much.
Dr A LOTRIET: Hon Chairperson, the drafters of our Constitution reviewed the implementation and safeguarding of our constitutional democracy of such high importance that the whole chapter was dedicated to institutions that would ensure these rights. Ten years after the establishment of these institutions, the National Assembly established an ad hoc committee under the Chairpersonship of the late Kader Asmal to assess the effectiveness of these institutions.
The 2007 report made a number of very important findings and recommendations. And in brief these centred on, financial matters and budget allocations, appointments of commissioners, their relationship with Parliament, specifically accountability and the National Assembly oversight, institutional governance arrangements, accessibility and overall efficacy.
Now although this report, dates back 16 years, there are some findings and comments that are still relevant today. One of the key concerns, was the budgets of these institutions. Not
only the size of the allocation, but where these budgets are housed. The key requirements of these institutions is that they should be independent and be able to express themselves and make findings where the rights of citizens have been infringed. This should be done without fear, favour or prejudice.
However, the question is: How independent is an institution? If your budget is dependent on a portfolio committee and the executive. This situation still persists and as recently as June 2023 this year, it was noted in a meeting with the office on institutions supporting democracy that the current funding approach compromises the perceived independence of these institutions as their budgets remain located within the budgets of the specific national government departments. And there is a lack of common identifiable processes to be followed by these institutions for their budgets. And further some of these institutions do not get or are really afforded an opportunity to present and justify their budget request to Treasury.
This is a very real problem relating to independence as it creates the impression that they are accountable to the
specific government department by which they are funded. AS the old adage goes, do not bite the hand that feeds you.
We have to change this to ensure that our democracy is indeed protected and promoted. Serious consideration should be given to recommendation that these budgets should be moved to Parliament.
Another comment made in the Asmal Report relates for appointment of people holding high level positions in the political party or other political entities as commissioners. This has a negative effect. Whether real or perceived on the independence of the institution. If we value the independence of these institutions, we should all be advocating for commissioners who are independent in the true sense of the word. Added to the appointment process, the Asmal Report also makes a recommendation that the role of Ministers be removed. This is important, as it ensures distance and independence from any political interference.
Again, the intention is to promote independent bodies to ensure democracy and oversight of the executive, but if the Minister is involved on who is appointed it defeats the object.
The most prominent recommendation made in the Asmal Report, was that the situation regarding all the institutions dealing with human rights issues be amalgamated into a single human rights body. This includes the Human Rights Commission, the Commission for Gender Equality, the Commission for the Promotion of the Rights of Cultural Religious and Linguistic Communities and the Pan SA Language Board. If one have an in depth look at what these institutions do, it is clear that there are large sections of overlap and a multicity of institutions result in an uneven spread of available resources which we know are declining as well as capacities. This has a negative effect on an actual effectiveness and efficiency of these institutions. It leads to fragmentation, duplication and it makes it difficult for the public to know which complaint should be dealt with by which institution.
Although there has been some discussion of the past decade regarding this important recommendation and there was no clear decision on it as yet, I believe that it is time that it be revisited given the changing economic climate. We have an ample examples of staff these commissions not fulfilling their duties and obligations where members of the public have been left disappointed by ineffective commissions and long
timelines before any attention is given to complaints. Surely this was not for the drafters of our Constitution had in mind.
Chairperson, it would be in the interest of all of us that this Parliament revisit the role functioning efficacy of the chapter 9 institutions. We are the strong foundation as provided for in the Constitution, but it is time to take them seriously and to ask the difficult questions. We have to rematch the protection and promotion of the human rights architecture in South Africa. And hopefully the Seventh Parliament will put this high on the Agenda. Thank you.
Adv B J MKHWEBANE: Hon Chairperson, the EFF would want to put on record that we would make sure that the Kader Asmal Report which emphasises the independence of these chapter 9 institutions especially on how they are funded which leads to them not being able to perform their responsibilities will be dealt with and indeed make sure that they are properly funded.
The EFF will also make sure that we stick to the mandates of these institutions.
Chairperson and hon members, we know that there are challenges of corruption in the country. The issue which weakens
democracy. Transparency International further observes that the cost of corruption can be political, social, environmental and economic. In this regard freedom, rule of law, citizen’s participation and trusted government, a healthy environment and a sustainable future as well as opportunities to build and grow wealth are negatively impacted.
Sitting here Chairperson, as the people of South Africa would know and having seen what happens to our collective resources as taxpayers, when they are plundered and when there is corruption. Yet as a country we have fairly have very strong legal fortress to deal with these issues.
Leading that is our constitutional institutions which are there to support and strengthen constitutional democracy.
We have the Public-Protector who investigate any maladministration and improper conduct in state affairs and the Public-Protector was given more responsibilities and stronger powers by the Nkandla judgment in the matter where the EFF has lodged that application which said the remedial actions of the Public-Protector are binding unless set aside by a court or if they are taken on review, therefore making everyone having the right to take the remedial actions to
court. However, that created a lot of problems for the institutions because then a state functionaries would the office on review and the office in defending the mandate of that institution it then leads to the office having to spend resources to defend their mandate and that led to the issue of resources escalating.
We have the Auditor-General, which has issued a number of reports and findings against various institutions it still shows that there is a lot of resources of the state which are being plundered and there is also the issue of maladministration because when you have maladministration it becomes the basis for corruption.
We have institutions like the Human Rights Commission, which is also not properly funded which has vast responsibilities and it cannot be seen at all. Their remedies and recommendations are just ignored by the state functionaries.
We have the Commission for Gender Equality which also needs to be kept as such because there are a lot of challenges which we have as an institution, in fact that institution which is having and they cannot have an impact in making sure that gender related issues are effectively dealt with.
We have a Commission for the Promotion of the Rights of Cultural Religious and Linguistic Communities which also needs very much funding which also has delays even with the Commission for Gender Equality to appoint their commissioners.
Chairperson, I must say that section 181 of the Constitution is very clear that the chapter 9 institutions must be supported by the organs of state or anyone and these institutions to be supported it means that they must be fully funded. It also means that the state functionaries especially the executive they implement those remedial actions and they do not second guess them. I think in the next administration we will make sure as the EFF that a Minister or any executive rushing to take the recommendations of these chapter 9 institutions to court, wasting state resources instead of resolving all these issues in a very cordial and a persuasive manner so that the resources of the state are not plundered. We do not support the establishment or to continue doing any other investigations. The institutions are there. They must be properly funded. Their remedial actions issued must be respected and implemented.
Another issue Chairperson is the fact that there is no need to even establish other chapter 9 institutions to deal with
corruption. If there is that need, the additional mandate should be added to the responsibility of the Public-Protector because definitely they investigate those. As the EFF we see it fit that we need to have a chapter 9 institution like the National Prosecuting Authority should be a chapter 9 institution so that it can also not be accountable to the Minister and any intervention which the executive might have.
Therefore that will ensure that there is clean and a break from relying from the executive when the chapter 9 institutions are performing their responsibilities.
Chairperson, let me also hasten to say another critical area which is being ignored in institutions supporting democracy though we know that Pan SA Language Board, PanSALB, is not a chapter 9 institution, but then that institution also must be fully capacitated so that they will be able to do, implement and perform their responsibilities. Hon Chairperson that is the submission from the EFF. Thank you. [Time expired.]
Prof C T MSIMANG: Hon Chairperson, I rise today on behalf of the IFP to engage in a crucial dialogue on a dispensable role played by chapter 9 institution in fostering and fortifying constitutional democracy in postapartheid South Africa. As we
reflect on the tumultuous journey of our nation has traversed, it is paramount to acknowledge the unique and critical mandate entrusted to chapter 9 institutions. These institutions including the Public Protector, the SA Human Rights Commission and the Auditor-General, among others were established to safeguard the democratic principles enshrined in our Constitution.
One of the least pins of our constitutional democracy is the protection of human rights. In this vein the SA Human Rights Commission stands as a sentinel, tirelessly working to ensure the human dignity of every South African is respected and upheld. Its interventions, investigations and advocacy have been instrumental in addressing issues of discrimination, inequality and injustice, thereby fortifying the bedrock of our democracy.
The Public-Protector often referred to as the guardian of good governance plays an indispensable role in holding public officials accountable by investigating maladministration, corruption and abuse of power. The Public-Protector serves as a crucial check on the exercise of authority, promoting transparency and accountability within our government in structures.
Equally vital is the Auditor-General whose scrutiny of public finances is fundamental to maintaining the fiscal integrity of our democratic institutions. Through meticulous audits, the Auditor-General contributes the culture of a financial prudence ensuring that public funds are utilised for the benefit of all citizens.
However, as we applaud the accomplishments of chapter 9 institutions, we must also confront the challenges they face. Adequate funding, operational autonomy and protection from political interference are essential components of their effectiveness.
The IFP calls for a collective commitment to fortify these institutions, empowering them to carry on their mandate without fear or favour.
In conclusion, evaluating the role played by chapter 9 institutions promoted in constitutional democracy reveals a multifaceted tapestry of triumph and challenges. It is our collective responsibilities, custodians of this democracy to bolster their institutions and safeguard the principles that underpin our nation’s vision. Through unwavering support we can ensure that chapter 9 institutions continue to be the
bullwhack against tyranny and the guardians of the democratic aspirations that define us South Africans. I thank you, hon Chairperson.
Afrikaans:
Me H DENNER: Agb Voorsitter, Suid-Afrika beskik oor wêreldklas Hoofstuk 9-instellings, want enige instelling wat ten spyte van onderbefondsing, inmenging deur die regering, ’n reuse werkslading en ’n legio ander frustrasies steeds tot ’n mate kan funksioneer, hoewel almal nie ewe goed nie, moet iets werd wees.
Die Grondwet van Suid-Afrika maak voorsiening vir die uitvoering, bevordering en beskerming van die basiese menseregte van die burgers van hierdie land en Hoofstuk 9- instellings speel ’n integrale rol daarin.
Die SA Menseregtekommissie, MRK, moet byvooorbeeld toesien dat basiese regte nie geskend word nie en waar dit wel gebeur, moet ondersoek ingestel en toepaslike remediërende stappe voorgeskryf word. Die MRK maak byvoorbeeld ’n bevinding van prima facie menseregteskendings soos haatspraak en verwys dit dan na die gelykheidshof om ’n finale bevinding te maak. Die hof het juis onlangs beslis dat die MRK hierdie mandaat
verkeerd vertolk het deur self bevindings van haatspraak te maak. Dit is dus van kardinale belang dat Hoofstuk 9- instellings ook hul grondwetlike mandate verstaan en dit nie oorskry nie.
Die oorvloed van menseregtevergrype in hierdie land, veral deur die regering self, maak ook die MRK se werkslading byna onmoontlik om te oorkom. Byvoorbeeld, artikel 24 van die Grondwet waarborg elkeen van ons die reg op ’n ongewing wat nie skadelik vir ons gesondheid en welstand is nie. Tog moet Suid-Afrikaners daagliks hul drinkwater, daar waar drinkwater beskikbaar is, uit bronne onttrek wat deur miljoene kubieke meter riool op ’n daaglikse basis besoedel word. Howewel klagtes al deur verskeie partye en verskeie burgers van hierdie land by die MRK aangemeld is, waarskynlik ter duisende, hoeveel van hierdie klagtes is al aangespreek? Is dit weens die MRK se tekort aan kapasiteit of kortwiek swak plaaslike regering onder die ANC nie juis hierdie artikel 9- instelling se vermoë om sy werk behoorlik te kan doen nie?
English:
Chairperson the Public-Protector is another fine example of how the wrong people in the right places can do unmeasurable damage. We have just gone through section 194 removal from
office exercise something that has taken a year to complete. The previous Public-Protector was found by this House to be incompetent to hold that office. This very House also appointed her seven years ago. Should the vetting being done better, should these proceedings being instituted earlier to avoid the extensive damage that was subsequently done to this institution? It backs the question with the ANC who has a notorious poor track record when it comes to consequence management have instituted these proceedings themselves, had it not been by an opposition party.
Which brings me to another burning question, the competence of parliamentarians? Though it has nothing to do with chapter 9 institutions, I fail to understand Chairperson, how an individual who has been removed as a head of a chapter 9 institution due to incompetence can be allowed to serve as a Member of Parliament of South Africa? The very institution that removed her in the first place.
Afrikaans:
Hopelik sal die party wat hierdie oordeelsfout begaan het uiteindelik die wrang vrugte daarvan pluk.
English:
The Commission for the Promotion and Protection of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities must be enabled to do more than research and paper work.
Recent legal reforms that enabled the Auditor-General to institute legal proceedings themselves is a step in a right direction, but then it must be done.
The role played by chapter 9 institutions in promoting constitutional democracy is very important. However, these institutions must be capacitated through proper resources and funding. Skilled and expert staff, support where necessary and they must have statutory backing to make an actual difference. For Chairperson, a toothless institution tasked with the safeguarding of constitutional democracy is useless to the people of South Africa. I thank you.
(Sound disconnected)
The presiding officer in terms of Rule 55 requested Ms N H Maseko-Jele to take the Chair due to technical challenges.
[TAKE IN FROM MINUTES.]
Mr M H PLAATJIES [Procedural]: Hon members, the Chairperson is experiencing difficulties with his gadget. He has requested that as backup I ask the hon Maseko-Jele to Chair in the meanwhile if that is in order. Thank you.
Mr M H PLAATJIES: Hon members, the Chair is having difficulty with his gadget, and he has requested that as a back-up, I request hon Maseko-Jele to Chair in the meanwhile if that is in order. Thanks.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms N H Maseko-Jele): Good
afternoon, hon members. Without waste of time, thank you very much, hon Denner. It’s unfortunate we will have to wait for the Chairperson to give us direction. The next party that is supposed to come with the next speaker ... I don’t have the speakers’ list with me.
Dr A LOTRIET: It’s hon Marekwa from the ANC, Chairperson.
Ms T Z MAKATA: Hon Chair, it is going to be presented by the hon Makata.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms N H Maseko-Jele): Can you hear me?
Ms T Z MAKATA: Yes, now I can hear you, hon Chair. I think there was a bit of a disconnection.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms N H Maseko-Jele): Continue!
Ms T Z MAKATA: Hon House Chair and hon members of the House, Chapter 9 institutions play a crucial role in South Africa by reinforcing the separation of power doctrine. A fundamental principle in the country’s constitutional law. The doctrine aims at establish checks and balances amongst the three branches of the government, contributing to the overall strength of the democratic system.
As part of constitutional measures designed to fortify democracy, Chapter 9 institutions serve an additional pacts on the use of government authority. These institutions outlined in Chapter 9 of the Constand are consciously established as independent and impartial bodies with the explicit purpose of holding the government accountable.
In the context of the South African history marked by discrimination, oppression and a lack of accountability, these institutions play a dispensable role in shaping and sustaining the nation’s democracy. Their impact in particular is critical
serving as a measure of a substantial progress in South Africa’s democratic journey.
Building on the foundation of accountability and independence, it becomes crucial for these institutions to engage in collaborative reports with compatible stakeholders. Such partnerships aim to maximise the potential impact and effectiveness that these institutions can collectively achieve. In the context of collaboration amongst these institutions specific areas can be identified for each demonstrating the direct roles they play in enhancing South Africa’s democracy.
The Independent Electoral Commission plays a pivotal role in assuring credible elections and its collaboration with society, media and various informative institutions is crucial for the success and the credibility of the electoral process.
Simultaneously, the SA Huma Rights Commission tasked with promoting and protecting human rights must engage with civil society, the private sector and the public sector to proactively address human rights violation.
The Auditor-General of South Africa has a commendable Act undertaken collaborative efforts with all levels of government particularly focussing on financial management matters.
Consistent and ongoing engagement with institutions contributes significantly to improving financial management practices.
The Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities has a critical role in safeguarding the rights of diverse communities. Proactive engagement is vital especially in addressing cultural and religious conflicts that make conflicts with human rights.
The Public Protector having made significant strides stands to enhance its impact through collaboration particularly with organisations representing rural women and traditional leaders. This collaborative approach can position the Public Protector as an accessible office reaching even the most marginalised communities. The emphasis in dealing with cases like the ones affecting rural women often overlooked and subjected to human rights violation is crucial for protecting the vulnerable from both public and private sector wrongdoings. The concerted are efforts aligned with the
commitment to address cases similar to those affecting individuals like Gogo Dlamini as articulated by the former Public Protector Prof Madonsela. Gogo Dlamini was described as an ordinary and an impoverished person with no means.
The Commission for Gender Equality plays a pivotal role in promoting a respect for gender equality and actively contributing to the protection, development and achievement of gender equality. As a catalyst organisation in this endeavour, the Commission’s work must be viewed in the context of the historical oppression faced by women in the country based on their gender which has impeded the progress in various aspects of lives. To effectively address these challenges the Commission should take the lead in fostering the lead with civil society, the public and the private sector. This collaboration efforts aims to enhance the promotion, protection, development and ultimate achievement of gender equality.
Given the historical oppression faced by women in our society, a strong emphasis on addressing their concerns is crucial for the effective functioning of Chapter 9 institutions especially in the context of strengthening democracy.
Institutions like the SA Huma Rights Commission play a pivotal role in this regard. The SA Human Rights Commission plays a pivotal role in this regard and significant contribution include regular advocacy initiatives and public education campaigns focussing on issues related to equality, nondemonstration, nondiscrimination and combating violence based on sexual orientation, gender identity and expression and gender-based violence.
The Commission of Equity Act, Act 39 of 1996, as amended, empowers the Commission to monitor and evaluate policies and practices of the state organs, statutory bodies, public body authorities and private entities to advance gender equality. Periodically, the Commission for Gender Equality, CGE, exercises its oversight role by visiting police stations and the Thuthuzela Care Centres. These visits aim at overseeing and assessing compliance in providing victim friendly services for gender-based violence and domestic violence victims and survivors. Through these visits the Commission collects data and conduct interviews with the SA Police Service, SAPS, personal and the Thuthuzela Care Centre, TCC, managers. The compiled findings are then presented to the National Police Commissioner and relevant stakeholders initiating further investigations to enhance service delivery in police stations
across provinces. Strengthening these aspects remains a critical focus for improving to help fight against gender- based violence.
The significance of the Chapter 9 institutions to South African cannot be underestimated. Chapter 9 institutions emerged as an indispensable guidance fortifying the nation’s commitment to fundamental principles. Established to bolster a separation of power doctrine. These institutions play a pivotal role in maintaining checks and balances amongst the three branches of government. Their significant is as insinuated by their proactive collaboration with civil society, the government and various stakeholders emphasising the collective responsibility to enhance the effectiveness of democratic institutions. Central to this collaborative effort is the Independent Electoral Commission ensuring the credibility of elections through partnership with civil society, media and informative sector.
Simultaneously, the SA Human Rights Commission spearheads initiatives to actively address human rights violations. This includes advocacy campaigns, public education and strategic collaborations with civil society, the private sector and the
public sector fostering a proactive response to equality and discrimination concerns.
Furthermore, Chapter 9 institutions such as the Auditor- General South Africa, the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities and the Commission for Gender equality contribute uniquely to the nation’s democratic fabric. The Auditor- General of South Africa’s engagement across government spheres ensure financial management accountability. While the cultural and the gender-oriented commissions actively protects diverse community rights. These institutions collectively embody the commitment to democratic values serving as crucial pillars that reinforce the resilience and inclusivity of South Africa’s evolving democratic journey.
The ANC is committed to fostering a robust and evolving democracy grounded in principles such human dignity, equality, the promotion of human rights, nonracialism, nonsexism, adherence to the Constitution and the rule of law, accountability, social justice and equity. These core values are integral to the ANC’s vison for a prosperous nation, and they serve as guiding principles for every action within the state and the ANC-led government. Thank you, hon Chairperson.
Mr T LOATE: Chair, the ANC played a pivotal role in providing for Chapter 9 institutions to promote constitutional democracy in post-apartheid South Africa. However, it created the institutions but undermined their pivotal role by appointing party cadres, most of the time to prevent their fulfilment, their role to society and advancing democracy.
Soon, when the ANC is no longer in government, it will bitterly regret when governments formed by other parties, follow their example. It is tragic that the six independent institutions, established under Chapter 9 of the South African Constitution are being subjected to such ... [Inaudible.] … and the government becomes more errant and more distant from the people who are increasingly being burdened with high taxes and worsening service delivery.
People are disappointed that those who are appointed to these pivotal roles lack an understanding of their personality and their constitutionally crafted roles. These roles, in the main, are to provide a check on government, thereby contribute to the transformation of South African society and the advancement of a thriving democracy. Neither of these is happening.
By not helping the different spheres of government to correct endemic problems, the situation is deteriorating. In the main, it is as if they don’t exist at all. If they had previously acted as powerful intermediaries between the public and government, they would have helped both the people and the government. They would have complemented the roles of the courts and of Parliament.
Most importantly, they would have seen the dividend of democracy been enjoyed by even the most marginalised people in South Africa. That is why it is our duty to ask how far down into the road of transformation has the SA Human Rights Commission, the Commission for Gender Equality and the Commission for the Promotion of Protection of the Rights of Cultural Religious and Linguistic Community taken as in fulfilling their explicit mandates of transformation.
We are still stuck in no one’s length because these commissions did not fully deliver on their mandate. They must rectify this for the glory of our nation and their own glory. I thank you.
Adv G BREYTENBACH: Thank you, hon Chairperson and hon members. Chapter 9 institutions in South Africa are a fundamental
component of the country’s democratic framework, serving as guardians of constitutional values, human rights and good governance. Established under Chapter 9 of our Constitution, these institutions play a pivotal role in upholding and promoting democratic principles. To achieve this, they are tasked to perform certain specific functions, to support and strengthen our constitutional democracy.
The Public Protector, for instance, acts as a watchdog against maladministration and abuse of power. The Constitutional Court has pronounced its remedial action binding calling it “An invaluable gift to our constitutional democracy.” It has, of course, in matters like State Capture and abuse of public funds in building Inkandla, served as the ultimate bulwark against our country’s possible slide into failed status.
However, the reputation of this office has been undermined and damaged severely over the last seven years, by the lack of impartiality, objectivity and the inability or unwillingness of the erstwhile office bearer, to always act in accordance with the Constitution and the law. Whether the recently appointed Public Protection will be able to restore confidence in this institution, remains to be seen.
The SA Human rights Commissioner towards this promoting, protecting and monitoring human rights in South. Africa. It should address human rights violations, conduct research and educate the public regarding their rights. By doing so, the Human Rights Commission should play a crucial role in fostering a culture of respect for human rights, a cornerstone of any thriving democracy.
This Chapter 9 institution has, however, not ever lived up to its potential, and the way it functions or fails to function, should be reevaluated.
The Auditor-General, on the other hand, plays a pivotal role in overseeing government finances. Through audits, this institution ensures the responsible and effective use of public funds. Fiscal accountability is a lynchpin of democratic governance and the Auditor-General’s work should theoretically help prevent corruption and mismanagement, thereby promoting financial transparency. This is one of the more effective and efficient Chapter 9 institutions.
The Electoral Commission, despite challenges, was seen over many election cycles as effective in delivering free and fair elections in South Africa. Unfortunately, its performance in
the run up to the election in 2021 undermined its own credibility and strengthened perceptions that were held up to then, only by minority, that it is not properly independent. The manner in which the commission attempted to postpone the election – an unconstitutional manner - aligns perfectly with the wishes of those political parties who advocated for postponement, chief amongst them, of course, the current majority party.
It should not have been necessary for the Constitutional Court to remand the commission of their absolute responsibility to conduct elections in terms of the Constitution enshrined regular intervals. Add to that, the inability of the commission to register everyone, who wanted to register as voters during the single registration weekend it administered, before the 2021 election. It must be clear that envelopes are flashing in respect to the commission, and it will have to do work to restore public confidence and trust in its independence and effectiveness.
On this point, it is important to underline that one of the key strengths of Chapter 9 institutions lies in their independence. The Constitution mandates that these institutions being impartial and free from undue influence,
providing a crucial counterbalance to the powers of the executive, legislative and judicial branches. This independence allows them to act without fear, favour or prejudice, holding government entities accountable and ensuring the protection of citizens’ rights.
Chapter 9 institutions that have been most successful, both in terms of the performance of their functions; in terms of building and maintaining public confidence; having been those who have not merely paid lip service to their independence, but have jealously guarded over it, even in the face of attempts to manipulate it to political pressure; and who have demonstrated their independence in standing up against attempts to influence them.
Another constraint, famous by Chapter 9 institution is one of a lack of adequate funding and staffing, while it is, of course, the ANC-led government, which must be blamed for its maladministration and corruption, which has caused insufficient budgetary allowances to Chapter 9 institutions. The reality is that, it has had a negative impact on the effectiveness of these institutions.
Chapter 9 institutions that had a significant impact on our constitutional democracy. Their role in upholding constitutional values, protecting human rights and ensuring that good governance cannot be overstated. As South Africa continues to navigate its democratic journey, ongoing support and enhancement of these institutions will be vital to maintaining the maturation and integrity of our democratic process. I thank you.
Mr S S SOMYO: Hon Chairperson, just to respond and two critical areas raised by members who have been part of this debate.
The first one comes from Cope, which has ... an its own instance of contribution has seen no action, no activity, no value, which is offered by these institutions. I want to refer him in each and every report of the Auditor-General, AG. I want to refer him in each and every report of the Commission for Human Rights. I want to refer him on the recent pronouncement by this House on a number of legislations which protect the rights of women and children. He must take time to have that reference, which is a point which directs him into seeing value in the work which is carried by these institutions. He must go back into the preamble of our own
Constitution, which instructively, indicates that we don’t want to go back into injustice. We don’t want to go back into inequality. We don’t want to go back to less respect for life.
It is in us in this House to ensure that through these structures and institutions we uphold the value for living, the value for respect, the value for human rights.
In that respect, we carry the importance of such institutions that are being proclaimed by this Constitution as Chapter 9 Institutions, who carry that right as the beacons who have to take us through the mitigation of justice, the mitigation towards equality, the mitigation towards the enjoyment of life at all times.
The defence of Chapter 9 Institutions is a vital act of our democracy and its development. This is because Chapter 9 Institutions such as the Public Protector, the SA Human Rights Commission, the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities, the Commission for Gender Equality, the Independent Electoral Commission, the Independent Authority to regulate broadcasting and the Auditor-General, produce high value assistance for the stage and its three arms as a home. And that assistance is
carried on the guarantee for accountability, for the involvement and participation of our own communities to ensure that their enjoyment of democracy is protected at all times.
Without these Chapter 9 Institutions and their ability to produce independent work, amid our democracy, would be in vain.
It is our duty as parliamentarians to deepen the sense of independence to such institutions as enshrined in the Constitution, which is coupled by their own accountability to this House at all times. That’s why we need to ensure that the structures we create for their own accountability are the structures that honour and value that these institutions are protected at all times. That these institutions enjoy proper and equated funding to their own value.
I want to agree with those who have made their own contribution to ensure that the area of sufficiency on capacity for any institution is not healthy for it, and the same can be said for Chapter 9 Institutions.
The lack of funding and sufficient human capital negatively affect the operations and growth of any Chapter 9 Institution.
Problems associated with insufficient capacity for Chapter 9 Institutions are financial stability, inadequate regulatory oversight, limited crisis management and increased systemic risk.
Chapter 9 Institutions are responsible for monitoring and enforcing rules and regulations. If these institutions lack capacity to effectively carry out their own regulatory functions, it increases the risk of financial misconduct, of fraud, discrimination and systemic exclusion. Insufficient capacity may hamper the ability for Chapter 9 Institutions to respond swiftly and effectively to crises, potentially exacerbated the impact and prolonging the recovery period.
Parliament, through its numerous committees, needs to start the process of facilitating and increase in the funding of Chapter 9 Institutions. Better funding for Chapter 9 Institutions can enhance capacity and expertise.
Additional funding can be used to hire and retain skilled professionals in their respective line of work. This can strengthen the institutions’ capacity to analyse and respond to socioeconomic challenges.
Adequate funding allows institutions to invest in modern technology and infrastructure, enabling them to better monitor and analyse society better, and implement more efficient regulatory and oversight processes.
With increased funding, institutions can conduct more in-depth research and analysis, providing them with a better understanding of society and potential areas of concern. This knowledge is crucial for making informed policy decisions.
Funding can support the successful implementation of policies and reforms by ensuring that institutions have the resources needed for outreach, for education and enforcement.
Funding can assist Chapter 9 Institutions in responding swiftly and decisively during financial crises to mitigate the impact of issues on society.
Some efforts which have been done with assisting the funding Chapter 9 Institutions is through the institutions supporting democracy.
The oversight role of Parliament is crucial in supporting and sustaining democracy. Parliament as a legislative body plays a
central role in representing and ensuring that this is an interest enshrined in all instances, at all times of ensuring that democracy thrives, is deepened, it exists in all our spheres of society.
Hon Breytenbach, if we’d want to see a situation of sustained level of capacity on institutions. We have to show full support and respect of such institutions through ensuring that we throw our level best behind those who are in such offices, and ensuring that through our own committees of Parliament we make our time in an analytical instance to throw weight on each and every report which is going to assist our own understanding and ensure accountability of these institutions at the right time, proper instances with correct tools. Thank you very much, hon Chairperson.
Mr S M JAFTA: Hon Chair, we wish to thank all the contributions from various political parties in responding to this motion.
There is certainly an argument to be made about improving the work of some of these institutions, including the allocation of additional funding.
This debate also focused on a High-Level Panel we are proposing, to be established. This is where a great deal of performance reviews will unravel.
We cannot thank enough the previous and current heads of these institutions for promoting our constitutional democracy.
As we forge ahead in deepening our constitutional democracy, we hope the role of Chapter 9 Institutions will remain central in achieving our democratic ideals.
Hon Chair, we also need to ensure that the citizens of the republic are well-vest about these institutions and their different roles in promoting democracy so that they can make use of them effectively.
Thanks to each and every participant in the debate.
Hon Chair, I thank you.
Debate concluded.
STRENGTHENING THE CAPACITY OF LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES IN THE FIGHT AGAINST VIOLENT CRIMES AND TO TACKLE ILLICIT ECONOMIC
ACTIVITIES LIKE ILLEGAL MINING, EXTORTION AND ECONOMIC SABOTAGE
Ms N P PEACOCK: Thank you, House Chair, hon members, we are participating in this debate to affirm our commitment as government to fight crime and to ensure safer communities. This fight against crime is informed by the imperatives in our Constitution that the right to freedom and security of the person is a fundamental right. In our Manifesto for the 2019 elections, we made a commitment to the people of South Africa that we shall, amongst other things, prioritise community building, and building safer communities for our people. This commitment is premised on the understanding that the value of democracy may not be realised in South Africans living in an environment that they don’t feel safe. We understand that an environment of peace is an enabler for social economic development.
When we commit to build safer communities, we said so conscious of the fact that the fight against crime requires a collective effort by all of us, including communities and civil society movements as well as the law enforcement but all of us working together to fight crime. We have to underscore the fact that the dawn of democracy has seen a drastic decline
in some of the crimes in our country. This is not a matter of opinion, but a fact that is also researched by the Institute for Security Studies that shows that since 1993, the murder rate declined by over 55%. This points to the correlation between the political system and crime. Despite this drastic decline in the murder rate since 1993, we are aware, however, concerned about the level of crime in our country. We are concerned about the murders that leave families with our fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, and uncles. One murder is too many. We urge that to reduce the highest murder rate in our country, we must entrench the democratic values in our society. The value of resolving disputes, through talking to one another with the intention of peacefully resolving the misunderstandings. This view is informed by the crime stats that show that most murders result from misunderstandings between people, especially young people. We encourage our young people to always resort to talking to one another in an event of misunderstanding and to avoid resorting to cruel measures of resolving disputes. The outcome of resolving disputes through violence is a deadly consequence to the victim and to the arrest of the culprit. Our young people lose their lives at an early age because of unnecessary ways of resolving their differences. Our country is robbed of bright
young minds that would take our country forward in the hands of their peers, solely because they had an argument.
In this regard, we call on our school systems to entrench in their curriculum, the human relations module linked to life orientation to guide our children at an early stage or at an early age, that violence is not a solution to any problem. The parents and guardians in families play a critical role in the upbringing of young people. It is at this stage of the child development that families should entrench the culture of resolving disputes peacefully. The parents, guardians and elders in the society must lead by example on how to resolve a misunderstanding in a peaceful manner.
We also like to urge the youth formation in our country, under the leadership of the NYDA to develop programs that are aimed at encouraging our young people to live a responsible and meaningful life away from crime. In this regard, we express outrage at the attack of a young woman of CPUT, allegedly by the husband. This incident has changed both the lives of the victim and the culprit. This could have been avoided if the culprit resorted to resolve whatever dispute they had in a peaceful way. We believe the law enforcement agencies will speedily deal with this crucial or this cruel crime to bring
justice to the victim. We take this moment to commend the government interventions in dealing with the crime in our society. These interventions include the allocation of additional funds for the police, to further recruit police personnel, to add capacity in the fight against crime.
We commend the police for having established various specialised units to fight crime, including illegal mining. Hon members, the other concerning crime is that of illicit financial flows. That is a sophisticated kind of crime that is mainly orchestrated by transitional corporations, the private businesses sectors. This kind of crime takes various forms, including tax avoidance and evasion. Some corporates share their profits in a sophisticated manner between the mother company and its subsidiary abroad. Prices are inflated between the two companies, and thus monies are illicitly shifted from country to abroad thus to avoid tax. In this regard, we wish to make reference to the work undertaken by the African Union High-Level Panel on illicit financial flows from Africa that made an observation. That our continent is annually losing more than $50 billion through illicit financial outflow. In the high-level panel further observes that large corporations that are engaged in illicit financial flow have the means to retain the best available professional, legal, accountancy,
banking and other expertise to help them perpetuate their aggressive and their illegal activities. The high-level panel report urges African countries to ensure that there is political will and the necessary technical capability to cut the illicit financial flow from Africa. In this regard, we applaud the work done by Sars by hosting the meeting in July 2023 for Africa to focus on tax transparency, to counter tax evasion and illicit financial flow.
We are in agreement with what the Minister of Finance said in his opening at the meeting of Sars, where he said the international tax transparency standards have proven to be an effective tool in curbing tax invasion and other illicit financial flows and generating additional revenue regarding ready to be invested in the development and provision of Public Service. The Minister further urged the global forum to continue to serve African countries and to support Africa initiative in its effort to build and enhance their capacities to use the exchange of information standard at their full potential on the continent. As we said earlier, we are surely not where we were in terms of crime rate, especially the murder rate in our country and that we are surely not where we want to be in terms of reducing crime in our country. We urge the JCPS cluster to strengthen its co-ordination and work
together to fight crime in our country. We also note and commend the legislations that have been passed by the House and ascended into law by the President in the fight against crime. These include the Protected Disclosure Act and the Witness Protection Act. These legislations will ensure that patrons who intend to report crime, do so without fear.
In conclusion, hon Chair, we believe that working together as communities and police, including civil society, we can win our war against crime in our country. We reiterate our call to our young people to live a responsible and meaningful life, and to stay away from crime. I thank you, hon Chair.
Mr B C GOLDING: Hon Chairperson, its hon Golding. I will be speaking on behalf of hon Whitfield. Chair, I’d like to start off by saying that while I applaud this as a topic, I was slightly disappointed by the input of the previous member. We had feedback on what is happening, but not what should be happening.
We we’ve got a problem in this country. So, while we strive to strengthen our enforcement agencies in the fight against crime, we do need to understand what the root cause of the problem is. The cause is the perceived lack of enforcement and
subsequent consequence. To counter this, we need to be visible. We need to be seen enforcing law. Through this, we will hopefully rebuild public trust in SAPS and ultimately drive crime down. However, under the ANC government in the past 10 years, 240 000 of our citizens have been murdered. Let that set in.
In the past five years, we’ve seen a reduction in force in SAPS from 192 279. That’s a loss of 13 000 members. The current ratio is a single member for just over 400 citizens, which is far in in excess of the ideal one to 250. This is brought into stark contrast in certain areas where that ratio exceeds one to 2000. The situation is not tenable. Coupled with this, since 2010 has been a decrease in the reservist levels, which was reduced from 63 000 in 2010 to a mere 3000 now. An additional loss of 60 000 people.
While crime is on the increase and the available resources are decreasing, we now need to recapacitate the services while under tight fiscal constraint. We need to think outside of the box. The answer is to co-operate, foster greater public partnership to embrace innovation and to bring policing and safety closer to the people. To this end, we must tap into the reservist pool. We must incorporate the more than 577 000
registered safety officers in the private industry and co- operate with the thousands of neighbourhoods and farm watch members in an integrated safety plan.
To see how this should be done, we need look no further than the DA-run Western Cape government and the City of Cape Town. City of Cape Town, in partnership with the Western Cape government, has deployed its Law Enforcement Advancement Programme, Leap, which has more than doubled the current number of law enforcement officers. It has deployed specialist units in metal theft, rail enforcement, infrastructure, rural safety, but to name a very few. In some cases, the cost of this is shared with the departments or the various government entities that adds to our budget base. It has embraced volunteerism, its auxiliary law enforcement service adding more than 10% to the total force strength.
The province has 600 registered neighbourhood watches, comprising 17 000 members who are capacitated, trained and provided with effective tools for communication and base infrastructure. This includes PPEs, uniforms, safety aids and access to an integrated citywide radio network. This is enhanced further by recruiting volunteer law enforcement officers from the ranks of the neighbourhood watchers who are
deployed in the area of origin. These neighbourhood watches are integrated into the cities control structure, co- ordinating information and movements. This integration and co- operation is extended to external trusted partners such as private security companies, safety services, and indeed, SAPS itself.
Operational planning, be it crime prevention or disaster response, includes all of these role players in an integrated approach. Efficacy in this space is enhanced further by smart policing. It provides emergency policing and control in an integrated manner to all public services by speeding up the processing of emergency telephone response by providing electronic dispatching, tracking and management of all resources. This allows for the appropriate and available resource to be dispatched to any incident. What that means is knowing where the vehicle is, where the person is, who is closer, don’t drive around, send them straight there. That’s efficient use.
Unlike the current failing 10111 programme, the city under its
107 programme, call centre and operations hub is able to co- ordinate all of this. It includes integration of CCTV cameras
... [Inaudible.] ... ShotSpotter, gunfire systems and real
time drone usage. To ensure that cases that result from policing or safety interventions are successful, the city issues watching briefs to legal staff who ensure that impediments in the criminal justice process are resolved. It provides for a higher rate of successful prosecution.
Ultimately, in the City of Cape Town, you are more likely to suffer consequence. Where resources are limited, we need to work smarter. If SAPS is unable to adapt, it is time to devolve to those who can. Let the DA lead this country down a safer and less violent path. I thank you.
Ms Z MAJOZI: Hon House Chair, today, I stand before you to tackle a matter that cuts to the very heart of our nation and the pressing need for reform in South African safety and law enforcement. The grim reality of rising crime levels, encompassing murder, robbery, gender-based violence and organised crime demand our immediate attention. We can no longer afford to turn a blind eye to the insidious spectrum of police corruption, whilst being left hopeless and helpless at the mercy of an ineffective government.
Let’s delve into the numbers, they tell a stark tale that 69 lives lost every day. Our streets are marred of violence and shadowy economic activities threatening our society. The big
question is, can we fix our policing and safety systems under the National Development plan, NDP Vision 2030? A decade old blueprint intended to strengthen police integrity and recruitment of skills personnel. However, despite the numerous calls for reform from various reports and commissions, our government has yet to embrace this plan fully. The status quo for our policing system has lingered at a stagnation for far too long.
Implementing budget increases, large scale recruitment and promise to breathe life into community police forum are part of an outdated playbook. It is time for a more peoples’ thought process at the highest government level to fortify the SA Police Service, SAPS and the overall system of policing safety.
As we embark on this reform journey, let us put SAPS leadership effectiveness under the microscope, from recruitment and training through strategic planning, procurement, integrity and overall management of police stations. Every cop in the world deserves scrutiny. Let us discuss expectations. Can we realistically ask our police to provide security akin to Western countries? Should that be our model? If not, we must explore the roles of other groups in
policing and local safety. The essence is clear. Our people deserve justice, peace and security tailored to South Africa’s unique needs.
The IFP advocates practical solutions. Picture this, private security, community patrol system and community-based structures working hand in hand. Integrating private security into our policing system as suggested by the July 2021 Unrest deserve more than a passing glance. Community members acknowledged by the National Development Plan, NDP Vision 2030 could play a pivotal role, especially when streets lighting is dim and vulnerability is high.
Our societies, criminology nature, marked by chronic violence and crime demands and multi-phased approach. It is not just about fortifying our police system, but also addressing the socioeconomic foundation of criminality. Effective policing is the linchpin for the functioning society. Shifting our focus to economic crimes, illegal mining, extortion and economic sabotage, the situation becomes clear. Government must intensify efforts to strengthen ties between commercial fraud investigators and the SA Police Service. Collaboration joint training programs and shared information platforms are non- negotiable.
Now, let us talk about certified fraud examiners focussed towards granting the police officer status, building on their commissioner of oath status could be a game changer.
Monitoring the Department of Justice’s progress is pivotal to effective combat of crime and corruption. As we discussed these vital matters, we must acknowledge the economic repercussion of these crimes. They drain our resources and stifle our nation’s social growth and development. Designating peace officer status and Community Police Forum sends a resounding message commitment to protecting our economy and securing the future of our people.
In conclusion, building and safer, more inclusive, stable and just South Africa requires addressing the social economic foundation of criminality and bolstering both the SAPS and the overall policing system. Let us strive for a genuine progress towards a safer and more harmonious society. Thank you, Chair.
Dr P J GROENEWALD: Hon Chair, the subject of discussion is the strengthening of the law enforcing agencies specifically to fight violent crime, referring to economic sabotage. It also refers to illegal mining, the Zama Zamas. Now, Chair, we can have as many discussions as we want. Firstly, we must admit and recognize the fact that to fight effectively and ensure
that crime decreases, it actually refers to the whole criminal justice system. At this moment, the criminal justice system is actually failing the people of South Africa. The criminal justice system which the police services is only one component but also includes, for instance, correctional services as well as the Justice Department is of such a nature of corruption that you cannot fight crime effectively.
There is no use if you have criminals in our correctional services centres, but they still continue with their criminal activities, specifically when it comes to organized crime. It is no use that you have a good Justice Department, but there is some other way, some other prosecutor that ensures that a file disappears. Chairperson, when it comes to the police service, we know that corruption is rife. It is easy to do an investigation in such a manner that you know there is no way of a successful prosecution.
Therefore, if we want to ensure that we fight crime effectively we must not just look at the capacitation of these departments. We must address the crime in the criminal justice system, and that main crime is nothing else than corruption.
Afrikaans:
Ek wil vandag vir u sê dat daar oor die dienste van die SA Polisiediens, SAPD, gevra word maar dit is ontstellend as ’n mens moet verneem dat, soos daar gister gestel is, daar 70% van die spesiale taakmag in KwaZulu-Natal is wat die afgelope tyd net eenvoudig uit die SAPD bedank het. Die vraag is hoekom? Dit gaan oor swak salarisse. Dit gaan oor swak werksomstandighede. Dit gaan oor ‘n swak bevorderingsbeleid. Daar is lede wat na 15-20 jaar in dieselfde rang is en dit word gereeld aangespreek. Dan wil ek vir u sê dat dit geen wonder is dat dit sleg gaan nie.
As dit oor die zama zamas gaan, het die President nou die Weermag ontplooi. Ek wil vir u sê dat dit maar niks anders as ‘n futiele oefening is nie. Geen soldaat of polisieman sal onder in ‘n gat ingaan om die zama zamas te beveg nie. Dit is selfmoord. As ons die zama zamas wil aanspreek, en dit is ’n probleem wat al sedert 2007 kom, moet die sindikate wat die goudstof of minerale koop deur die intelligensie strukture behoorlik ondersoek word want dit is deel van organiseerde misdaad. As ons dit nie gaan doen nie, help dit nie dat ons toesprake oor hoe om misdaad te bestry hou nie. Ons moet optree. Ek dank u.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF POLICE: Chairperson, good afternoon to hon members, Ministers and Deputy Ministers on the platform, please receive our greetings this afternoon and allow me to tender Minister Cele’s apology for not able to be part of this important debate, which is taking place in the midst of our continued efforts to find new and innovative interventions to discharge our enormous responsibility of keeping our nation safe. We remain fully aware of the pressing obligation to continue pursuing every possible avenue that will help us to realise a crime-free South Africa in keeping with the vision of our forbearers as exposed in the Freedom Charter and our Constitution.
The realisation of a South Africa where our people and everyone within our borders will live without fear or being attacked or becoming victim of criminality, a South Africa where entrepreneurs and corporate will be able to freely exercise their trade and prosper. Since the dawn of democracy, considerable strides has been made in ensuing that our people have access and equal opportunities and basic services they require to improve their living conditions. Many of our people have enjoyed the fruits of freedom with their lives being far better than they were under the apartheid regime. However, many things must still be done especially in creating a
conducive environment for them to participate in the first economy hence we continued to intervene as government and plead with the private sector to also play its role in that respect.
Having said that, hon members and Chairperson, we are not oblivious to the fact that the country is experiencing erratic incidents of violence and extortion targeting both formal and informal businesses alike.
We all know that crime and criminality are a major impediment to economic growth and come at an extremely high cost to the country’s economy as a whole. Crime stands as a measure obstacle in our efforts to improve the lives of our people by eliminating inequalities, alleviating poverty and ensuring economic growth. This is why we fight criminals every day and night because we fully appreciate that crime discourages foreign investment, reduces tourism and stalls economic activity in general.
Hon members, in recent years, we have seen an unprecedented increasing incidents of theft and vandalism of our critical infrastructure. For example, as a result of theft of copper cables our country has been plunged into darkness with regular
loadshedding being part of our daily lives. Of late, criminals are also targeting infrastructure critical for the provision of the country’s water and fuel. As a result, we have experienced incidents of water shedding as well.
The theft of coper cables and steel has often left trains ground and the commuters stranded with huge loss of revenue to both Transnet and the Passenger Rail Agency of South Africa, Prasa, as well as loss of income to commuters.
It is now public knowledge that Transnet and Prasa cannot meet their contractual obligations because the rail network system has been compromised by theft and vandalism.
We are however, waiting closely with communities to gather intelligence to confront this problem and we are beginning to see some positive results. Extortion is also becoming a serious issue of common concern. Since 2015, the so-called forums have spread across the country invading construction strides and demanding a 30% share of any work or contract.
In 2019 alone, these forums affected at least 183 projects worth more than R63 billion. Sadly, this phenomenon has extended to small, medium and macro as well as impoverished
households who have, for example, rented their back rooms as a source of income. Recently, we have also seen a worrying increase in reported cases of kidnappings.
According to SAPS statistics, 3 641 cases of kidnappings were registered in South Africa in the first quarter of 2023-24.
These crimes take various forms where some are kidnapped for human trafficking and activities while others are kidnapped for ransom and extortion purpose. Of late, some people have been kidnapped and kept captive for days while perpetrators are withdrawing hefty amount of money from their bank accounts.
We have also in recent months experienced an alarming spike of illegal mining activities. Illegal mining activities are not a unique problem to this country but their severity, their rapid increase and their potential devastating impact on the lives and livelihoods of our citizens are of serious concern for our ailing economy.
The current levels of illegal mining activities occurring across Gauteng as well as other provinces are not only affecting the safety and security of our communities but also
impact negatively on the economy of the country and are a major threat to the security of the state.
We have all witnessed the reported turf wars between the rival illegal mining gangs’ shootout between these ‘zama zamas’ and security officers. This being the case. We have also seen an increase in the number of arrest and convictions of perpetrators in this regard.
Hon members, with the welcome leaps levels of information and communication technological advancement, we have also experienced drastic changes in the way we live our lives economically, socially and politically.
The world today is more interconnected than ever before, yet with all these and vantages increase connectivity brings increase risk of theft and fraud and abuse. We have as a result seen an upsurge in technology-based crime and technological advanced high tech criminals using computers and advanced technology to commit crime protected by the anonymity that this technology offers. This has compelled us to look at prioritising our ICT advancement as well.
We would not allow criminals to be ahead of us. Illicit and counterfeit trade related crimes has also increased exponentially since the advent of democracy with far reaching consequences of both the wellbeing of our people and the economic stability of our country.
I believe that every form of crime from pickpocketing to organised transnational crime negatively impact our economy. If not well managed, it will aggravate unemployment as well as lead to disinvestment and capital flight. No country can grow economically if crime continue to escalate, yet it will be impossible to resolve the escalating crime crisis if the economy is not growing.
Hence as the ruling party, we have taken a cautious decision to adopt a multifaceted approach that focusses on crime reduction and economic growth simultaneously. Therefore, I believe it is in recognition of the gravity of the consequences of crime and criminality that President Ramaphosa employ the Minister of Police to take urgent decisive action and put in place intervention to push back the frontiers of lawlessness. To this effect under the stewardship of the Ministry of Police and the senior management of SAPS, review of SAPS performance and crime prevention strategy was
undertaken and a number of intervention to deal with the challenges mentioned above were developed with a strict implementation monitoring plan that we are still pursuing to date. In this regard, SAPS has as of May this year implemented Operation Shanela as one of our intervention of aggressively dealing with crime and criminality.
I am proud to announce that we have seem to be winning the battle in this regard as evidence from the recent crime statistics we are beginning to see a remarkable drop in most crime categories and with the current rollout of the safer festive programme I believe we will see more improvement in this regard.
We are also aggressively disrupting illegal mining activities and we have been making a number of arrest and we are working on a strategy to target the actual bias of this illegal mine resources. We also applaud the intervention by the President to reinforce our effort in this regard and we are quite confident that we will make serious inroads in this regard. We have also been gradually tackling illicit and counterfeit trade. To date, we have confiscated goods worth hundreds of millions ranging from food, cigarettes, alcohol and clothe.
We are also aware that most of the serious organised crime are the work of cross-border syndicates. Hands in partnership with the Department of Home Affairs and other security cluster departments, we are working together in the establishment and strengthening of the Border Management Authority, which was joined by the President of Zimbabwe recently.
The Border Management Authority is a collaborative type of law enforcement agency to clamp down crime and illegal immigration, improve security and monitor the movement of people and goods across the country’s borders.
It is true that there has been a decline in terms of the number of police officers within the SA Police Service. But it is also true that with the intervention of the President, we have for the first time in the history of the country trained over 10 000 new recruits as police constables who passed from their training last December on 14 and we are going to have another 10 000 that will be passing out on 15 December with a commitment from the President that they will allow us to train another 10 000 for the next financial year.
So effectively, we are going to have an extra 20 000 police officers as they are released from college at the end of
December on 15. We will add another 10 000 next year 15 December. So, all in all, we will in this three-year period increase the police shortage in the country by 30 000. This is a decisive intervention that must be employed because we have come to the realisation that there is a need to strengthen the police service in that regard. The position of this government and the security cluster is very clear.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Ms N H Maseko-Jele): Time expired, Deputy Minister.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF POLICE: No crime or criminality will be tolerated in this country. We can’t co-govern with criminals. Thank you very much, Chairperson. [Time expired.]
Mr V GERICKE: House Chairperson, South Africa has become a haven for criminals and organized criminal syndicates, operating from this country and from outside the borders of the country. Those operating internally have eclipsed the state and are running a parallel state of their own. They extort businesses by demanding protection fees both in townships and in towns.
Today there are lot of restaurants and entertainment places, even right here in Cape Town that are paying some form of protection fees to one gang or another. Businesses are forced to do this because there’s no capacity to offer protection to them and they know their failure to pay the extortion amount would lead to collapse of their businesses or worse, lead to death.
These organized syndicates are beyond the reach of the law because they have inside officials in their pockets. It would have never been possible for organized criminal syndicates to organize and execute a crime such as the murder of Col Kinnear without the involvement of other police officers.
Police officers, such as the late Col Kinnear, are constantly at the risk of losing their lives because they refuse to be in the pockets of gangs.
Further, we are victims of organized international crimes, Madam House Chair, because our borders are porous and there is no proper control of goods that come into the country. All of these House Chairperson, as indicated earlier, point to a great problem of a collapsed state.
History littered with examples of corruption that eats into the marrow of the state, making it unable to perform basic functions, leaving citizens at the mercy of vagabonds.
In instances like this, the state itself becomes an instrument in the pursuit of crime. South Africa has arrived at this level. They have no functioning crime intelligence of any kind in the country, except that used in pursuit of party-political interest and in pursuit of criminal activities by Police bosses.
We need to urgently weed out unruly elements within our prime intelligence services. And built up this unit of fresh to be able to detect and prevent organized crime. Linked to this must be a rapid risk killing of members of the National Prosecuting Authority to levels directly proportional to the complexity of the crimes committed, Madam House Chair.
As of this moment, we are unable to prosecute those involved in the Steinhoff Huis. The National Director of Public Prosecutions has publicly admitted that they do not have capacity to prosecute the type of crime. This makes a mockery of our entire system because it gives out an impression that only lower-level criminals will pay for their crimes.
This is so because we have lost key detective capacities within SA Police Service, SAPS and many other function touches, the deoxyribonucleic acid, DNA, laboratory services have been progressively decimated over time.
Madam House Chair, we need to reestablish and strengthen cooperation between police and communities, and we must root out corruption within SAPS and set an example by arresting and imprisoning those working hand in hand with gangsters.
If the state was ... [Inaudible.] ... we could eliminate the problem of illegal mining in a very short space of time. We know where the mines are. We know the companies that were given licenses to mine. These companies must be held to account and must take responsibility for securing the mines.
Ultimately, SAPS ought to know who the big men are behind these illegal mining operations. We are unable to resolve these problems, Madam House Chair, because state itself has become an integral instrument of crime.
Today, Madam House Chair, the only solution at our disposal is to get rid of incompetent and corrupt officials and
politicians and restore the integrity of the state. Thank you, Madam House Chair.
Mr A M SEABI: House Chair, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members on the podium, I greet you. In this debate, I would like to point out that the fight against crime is a social responsibility. Chris Pillay writes that and I quote:
Since 1993 the South African Police Service has made community-centred policing its working philosophy to meet the safety and security needs of all people in the country.
As one of its major objectives, community policing strives to establish active partnerships between the police and the community at the local level, through which crime, service delivery and community-police relations can be jointly analysed and the necessary solutions formulated and implemented.
In 2018, the Deputy Minister of Police launched the National Community Policy Strategy. The strategy makes provision for community policing that focuses on crime and social disorders through the delivery of police services that include aspects
of democratic law enforcement as well as prevention, problem- solving, community engagement and partnerships.
The strategy has been developed to revamp the centrality of the community in crime fighting and the objective of the strategy is to enhance structured community involvement in crime prevention by making all people in South Africa feel free and safe through multidisciplinary collaboration or interventions.
The strategy has a number of pillars that include public education, building community resilience to crime as well and multidisciplinary collaboration. The strategy further emphasises that problem-solving should be based on a consultative approach which constantly seeks to improve responsiveness to identified and prioritised community needs. It emphasises education, capacity building and re-skilling of South African Police Service, SAPS, personnel and members of the community to enable constructive participation in addressing the problems of crime.
Hon Chair, at the centre of the strategy, is the enhancement of the accountability of the police to the communities they serve. The communities are mobilised for shared responsibility
and decision-making, as well as sustained commitment from both the police and the community with regard to safety and security needs. The strategy seeks to create an understanding and trust between the police, the community and other relevant role players.
We are making reference to the strategy because it is consistent with how the democratic government, led by the ANC, conceptualised the police service. The democratic government envisioned a police service that would suit the constitutional democracy that we are advancing. The new South African Police had to shift from the police system of the apartheid regime which had little or no regard for the rights of the citizens.
In his master’s mini-thesis on Sector Policing to Improve Community Policing in South Africa, Donovan Smith argues that and I quote:
As a public sector organisation, the South African Police was not excluded from this transformation process. He continues to say transformation did not simply mean a change in name or a change in the colour of the vehicle, it meant a new style of policing. A whole new concept of
how a police service should function within a democratic society had to be developed and learned.
With the South African Police Service, SAPS, we introduced a philosophy in the police service, a philosophy of serving and protecting the people. The police are not the enemy of the people. It is therefore important that the police and the society or communities should see each other as partners in the fight against crime.
Our police are there to execute the mandate of protecting us, the citizens and our part, as the citizens, we should co- operate and support the police to execute their mandate.
Consistent with the philosophy of saving police service, the ANC-led government. Introduce the community policing forums, CPFs, to bring together the communities and the police in the fight against crime. This means that collaboration and co- operation to fight crime is formalised between the communities and the police. The assessment is that the CPFs have recorded successes and failures, amongst the successes, even though asymmetrical relates to the many incidences that the communities have alerted the police on incidences of crime but most importantly, in crime prevention.
The successes of CPFs vary from one community to another. The differences are mainly with regards to the understanding of the role of the CPFs as well as having volunteers who participate in the CPFs.
We all agree that there is a need to provide resources for the CPFs to make them more effective and efficient. This is a matter that the government should continuously look at. For a start, the Minister of Police has allocated R70 million towards the capacitation of CPFs.
Provinces are also continuing to play their part in ensuring that CPFs are capacitated to do their work. A case in point is the Gauteng province which has donated more than 17 vehicles to the CPFs to make sure that they do their work. On the other hand, the Civilian Secretariat for Police Service continues to provide education. And training to CPFs as a way of empowering them with knowledge.
Madam Chair, we are approaching the festive season, and hon members and the government will be launching the 16 Days of Activism against Gender-Based Violence. It is ironic that this year we will be launching the 16 Days of Activism against Gender-Based Violence in the face of the many women and
children who are killed in the war in Gaza. We call on the State of Israel to stop the attack on Gaza and save the lives of women and children.
The 16 days of activism is our collective intention to say enough is enough, no violence to our women and children. We have to lead from the front as the representatives of the people, to much with our communities to create awareness in the fight against violence against women and children. Once again, we reiterate that the fight against crime is a societal issue and it requires all of us to join hands to build safer communities. I thank you, Madam Chair.
M.Gen O S TERBLANCHE: Hon Chairperson, can you hear me?
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Yes, I can hear you.
M.Gen O S TERBLANCHE: Chairperson, as we speak here today, the murder rate rose with 77% over the last two decades, from
15 554 in 2011-12 to 27 494 from 2012 to the last financial year. The previous National Commissioner of the South African Police Service, Saps, General Sitole, before his retirement, admitted that the department is unable to fulfil its constitutional obligations in terms of section 205 of the
South African Constitution. Today, the Saps finds itself in exactly the same position, if not worse. In short, this means that South Africans are forced to be self-reliant and responsible for protecting their loved ones and their property. In any other self-respecting country, the public would have expected that the Minister and the National Commissioner responsible to immediately resign or to be dismissed and the state president would have intervened promptly to rectify the situation. Sadly, the situation is still going on as usual and worsening daily.
Like the rest of South Africa, the police force is also doomed to suffer the ruins of a failed state. The current ANC-led government either doesn’t have the political appetite or the ability to stop this free fall or to change its trajectory.
The good news, however, is that there is hope. Voters are aware that the 2024 elections are an opportune time to remove this incompetent government and replace it with a DA-led government. Change is possible, but it must start now.
The eighth outdated current policing model needs to be replaced by the new total policing framework, setting in motion the transformation that the Saps so desperately requires. Crime prevention is still reliant on practical and
visible policing and must be enhanced by fostering strong partnerships with the community it serves. Devolving police powers to lower levels of government must benefit this approach as each administration’s authority would be able to tailor policing needs to suit its province or region. For example, gangsterism is more prevalent in the Western Cape while illegal mining is more of a problem in Gauteng and the Free State. It makes a lot of sense to devolve power to grassroot levels. Lead officers in the Western Cape could play a prominent role if they had more authority. Reservist programmes and hiring of retired detectives must be prioritised to provide immediate solutions and cost saving benefits.
Our criminal justice system should hinge on evidence-based policing to ensure that the prosecution, detection and conviction rates improves while simultaneously serving as a deterrent for would be criminals. Once law and order are restored, investment and employment opportunities will return to these areas and our youth will be able to find employment preventing them from joining the ranks of gang. However, without a change in government, all their four mentioned possibilities will remain just that – possibilities.
Under the watch of Minister Bheki Cele, the Saps ran out of ideas. Him and his department got stuck in the past and the criminals are rapidly gaining the upper hand. Their inability and incompetence resulted in the President being forced to call in the army as the police lost the fight against crime. We now have the Protection of Constitutional Democracy Against Terrorist and Related Amendment Act, POCDATARA, which includes an even broader scope of terrorism and South Africa is shamefully unable to fulfil both its domestic and international responsibilities.
All of this at the same time the country is facing extreme rolling blackouts, exacerbated by the coal at Eskom mafia sabotaging power stations. The time has come for an in-depth investigation to be done, and the mafias to be exposed and treated as domestic economic terrorists they are.
Chairperson, the bible teaches us that there is an appointed time for everything. Bheki Cele’s time has come; he has to go and the sooner the better ... [Time expired.]
Ms N P PEACOCK: Hon Chair and hon members, we all agree that the level of crime in our country is of serious concern. We also agree that police alone cannot address the challenge of
crime to ensure safe communities. This means that the collective working together of the police and communities becomes critical in fighting crime.
Yesterday, as I was listening to the news on the radio, I heard of a problem of stock theft in some parts of KwaZulu- Natal province as well as Limpopo province. One by one listeners expressed their experience with stock theft and the frustrations with regard to the response of police in this matter, especially the units that deals with stock theft. In this regard, we urge the police to prioritise this matter of stock theft and to work with the communities to address this problem.
We do also agree with hon Seabi that the National Community Policing Strategy should inform our collective approach in dealing with crime within our communities. We firmly believe that the mobilisation of communities, the civil society and other community-based organisations will contribute positively to the fight against crime.
Indeed, government should also address the social economic challenges that contribute to crime such as sporadic so-called service delivery protests. We commend the work of the police
in establishing various specialised police units to fight crime. This will also include the organised crime, such as illegal mining, cross-border crimes as well as illicit crimes.
We applaud the deployment of soldiers by the President to support the police in the fight against illegal mining, which is a serious concern within our communities, especially amongst the mining communities. As we approach the festive season, we should all put shoulders to the wheel in the 16 days of activism against violence against women and children. We must protect our women and our children, and we should make it a 365 days commitment.
Honourable Chairperson, in responding to some of the committee members that had their input towards this motion, I would like to call upon hon Golding who said that my speech only focused on what is happening and not what is supposed to be done. If he listened carefully to the speech that I tabled, I even mentioned solutions that the Department of Police brought up in order to curb violence or to try and curb crime.
To hon Terblanche, we cannot blame the man on everything that is done. We can’t always bring the issue of crime to the Minister; it’s a collective, as you heard in my speech, I
mentioned that we need a collective or a collaborative approach in order to fight crime. We can’t be seen pointing fingers at people, whereas we know that crime itself needs a holistic approach, and it needs to be fought by each and everyone. I thank you, Chairperson.
Debate concluded.
The mini-plenary session rose at 16:19.
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