Hansard: NA: Mini-Plenary 1
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 27 Oct 2023
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Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
MINI PLENARY 1 - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY (VIRTUAL) FRIDAY, 27 OCTOBER 2023
PROCEEDINGS OF VIRTUAL MINI PLENARY SESSION OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Members of the mini plenary session met on the virtual platform at 10:00.
The Acting Chairperson Mr S O R Mahumapelo took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
The Acting Chairperson announced that the virtual mini plenary sitting constituted a meeting of the National Assembly.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr S O R Mahumapelo): Today, hon members, we welcome South Africans who may be joining us on various platforms that Parliament has provided as part of participatory and transparent democracy. We will have a debate on the Consideration of the Report of the Portfolio Committee on Police on Proposed Parliamentary inquiry into the 2021,
July unrest. Therefore, for that our first speaker will be hon Peacock of the ANC for three minutes.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON POLICE ON PROPOSED PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY INTO JULY 2021 UNREST
Ms N P PEACOCK: Hon Acting House Chair, in July 2021, parts of South Africa were engulfed by the widespread violence, protest and riots leading to the destruction of the state and private- owned properties, largely in KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng province. The looting led to the loss of two million jobs, more than R50 billion was lost from our economy and more than
350 people lost their lives. This was devastating and the effects are still felt. In response to the unrest, two investigations were launched. First, His Excellency President Ramaphosa established a panel of experts into the July 2021, civil unrest led by Professor Sandy Africa. The report was published in November 2022, and made several recommendations on how to strengthen security capacity in South Africa. The report was ambiguous in the finding that the SA Police Service and the intelligence structures failed to anticipate the unrest and to quell the spread of violence.
Second, our esteemed Chapter 9 institution, the SA Human Rights Commission, also launched an investigation into the cause of the unrest. The causes of the alleged radically motivated attacks and killings, and the cause of the apparent lapses in the law enforcement by the State Security Agency, in particular, sorry Chair ... [Interjections.]
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr S O R Mahumapelo): No
problem, hon member, take your time.
Ms N P PEACOCK: ... in particular, the SA Police Service and private security companies. The directed that relevant committees must inquire into events that led to the unrest and the factors leading to the seemingly delayed response from security service and inability to effectively stop the spreading of the violence timeously. The Portfolio Committee of Police and the Joint Standing Committee on Defence embarked on a joint oversight visit to the affected areas of KwaZulu- Natal as well as Gauteng on the 19th to the 20th of July 2021. The Portfolio Committee on Police met on several occasions to discuss a proposed parliamentary inquiry into the July 2021, civil unrest.
In August 2021, the committee stated the development of the terms of reference and proposed inquiries. Due to the nature and scope of the investigation of the Human Rights Commission, the hearing took longer than anticipated and the final report has not yet been established. In the interim, the committee compelled the SA Police Service to develop a comprehensive implementation plan on the recommendations contained in the report by the Presidential Panel. The implementation plan was presented to the committee on 6 September 2023, and 34 recommendations were made, 18 are applicable to SA Police Service, SAPS, and the rest to different departments, including National Intelligence Co-operating Committee, the SA Defence Force and the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs.
On the 18 recommendations applicable to SAPS, 16 have been fully implemented and 11 nearly completed. We request that the members note the endorsed resolution from the Portfolio Committee of Police. I thank you, Acting House Chair. [Time expired.]
Mr B C GOLDING: Hon Acting House Chair, hon Whitfield is not in this meeting, I will be standing in for him. Hon Peacock, you ran out of time, so it sounds like I’ll be finishing off
what you said because we were in the same meetings. Acting House Chair, on 29 June 2021, the Constitutional Court sentenced former President Jacob Zuma to 15 months in imprisonment. On 9 July the same day that the Pietermaritzburg High Court upheld his sentence, the unrest driven by the Free Zuma protests started. What followed was a spree of public violence, riots, looting and destruction of property, killing, which impacted major cities in KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng and threatened national insurrection. This resulted in a socioeconomic impact to this country was a large one with more than 350 deaths, infrastructure damage exceeding R50 billion with the cost of more than 150 000 jobs, and the total economic cost to our country of between 80 and R100 million.
President Ramaphosa in his address on 16 July described this protest as nothing less than a deliberate, co-ordinated and well-planned attack on our democracy and our Constitution.
Parliament subsequently instructed all the committees relevant to this area to start an inquiry. On 5 August, an expert panel was appointed by President Ramaphosa to review essays response to this unrest. While draft terms of reference were presented to the portfolio, it was resolved to delay this until the Presidential Panel and that of the SA Human Rights Commission had been finalised. The Presidential Panel published the
report in February 2022, made 34 recommendations, 18 of which were applicable to the SAPS. To date, six of these recommendations have been implemented and 11 are in progress, and one cannot be implemented until legislative changes have been made. Primary in his recommendations are: The capacitation of crime intelligence, training of visible members in crowd management, training of 4 900 public order policing, Pops, members in basic crowd management of armoured vehicles and water cannons, the enlistment of 4 000 extra Pops members, the integration of private security operators in their response plan to be eyes and ears of SAPS and to extend force.
There will also be an establishment of a national co- ordination centre ... [Inaudible.] ... is the strengthening of
... [Inaudible.] ... structures in the communities to improve trust and engagement. The draft report from the SA Human Rights Commission, SAHRC, is expected to be finalised at the end of 2023. Though it has been more than two years since the July 2021 unrest, many questions still remain unanswered, and the public is well-justified in their frustration at the perceived lack of progress in inquiry. While structured processes have been followed or need to be followed, the
deferring it till the Nineth Parliament can be seen as a failure.
The DA has requested on multiple occasions both to the current and the previous chairpersons of the portfolio that the portfolio meets during recess to address and complete any urgent outstanding matters in the Sixth Parliament. While government focuses on root causal factors, the public’s expectation is far simpler. Who did it and who has been charged? While the focus thus far has been on looters, vigilantes and in one case, a discerning shopper with a penchant for certain robust goods the true instigators need to be charged. Currently, one suspect has been convicted for inciting public violence. A further 65 suspects who are alleged to have co-ordinated looting via a WhatsApp group called Free Zuma co-ordinators have been charged. Their case is postponed till November pending terrorism charges.
I trust that the ANC will not interfere or impede or postpone this process in the runup to 2024, to appease any regional factions or to protect certain members. The eyes of the nation are on you, do the right thing. Acting House Chairperson, the DA notes the report. Thank you.
Mr V GERICKE: Chairperson, you are muted. I can’t hear you. Can you hear me?
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr S O R Mahumapelo): Yes, I
hear you clearly.
Mr V GERICKE: Sorry, we were breaking up for a moment.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr S O R Mahumapelo): No
problem, it’s technology. Is it hon Gericke?
Mr V GERICKE: Yes, Chairperson.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr S O R Mahumapelo): Am I
pronouncing your surname correctly?
Afrikaans:
Mnr V GERICKE: U is doodreg.
English:
House Chairperson, the EFF supports the recommendation of the committee for it to become part of the committee’s legacy report, and we will attend to it in the Seventh Parliament. As the EFF, we are not shocked that it has been more than two
years since the killing of Africans in Phoenix, where more 36 people were massacred, yet no one has been convicted.
The families of those people killed in Phoenix are not merely waiting for justice, they know that the ANC government is useless. Only an EFF government will deliver the justice they deserve to the families of the people massacred in Phoenix.
The matter of parliamentary inquiry into the July 2021 unrest should not be limited to just one committee; it should be an inquiry that examines all factors - economic, social crime, unemployment and poor policing - and its recommendations should be comprehensive in nature.
The painful truth is that crime in our communities is primarily a consequence of rampant unemployment and poverty. Young people wallow in despair and parents bear witness, as their children delve into a life of crime, driven by the unemployment, exclusion from significant economic participation and the perception that crime is the only gateway to the economy.
The issues of a lack of housing and poor service delivery further exacerbate the situation, leading to further
disillusionment amongst our people. The rise of gangsterism in our communities is a testament to the failure of governance and the vacuum it leaves behind, feeding into the cycle of crime and unrest.
Without addressing these fundamental challenges, we are not positioned to effectively tackle crime and prevent further unrests, similar to what we saw in July 2021 in KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng.
Amidst all these challenges, the troubling pain of hunger remains ever present, a silent testament to our nation’s unfulfilled promises. The EFF supports the report. Thank you.
Ms Z MAJOZI: Hon House Chair, on 9 July 2021, parts of South Africa, particularly in the provinces of KwaZulu-Natal and Gauteng erupted in the large-scale violent protests and riots, leading to the destruction of the state and privately-owned properties, vandalism in general, and widespread criminal activities.
In the mayhem that followed, over 300 people lost their lives and many more were injured in the civil unrest, mixed with underlying racial tension that sparked several conflicts. The
community of Phoenix in KwaZulu-Natal experienced a severe number of violent incidents, with more than 30 people killed and 22 suspects arrested by the police.
Shopping malls and factories in some of these areas were stripped bare of stock, fixtures and fittings. The devastation to affected families, livelihoods and the economy at that time, when the Covid-19 pandemic was already running rampant in our country, will scar and hinder our efforts to recover for a long time to come, with R20 billion in damages and approximately 50 000 jobs lost in Gauteng and KwaZulu-Natal.
The fact that such unrest was allowed and manifesting in compound upon itself in such a short space of time, without our security services having knowledge thereof and being able to contain and ... [Inaudible.] ... such unrest has left us with more questions than answers. How and why did we allow the intelligence service to fail us? How and why did the police service fail us? Why was there no forewarning and why was there such a delayed response from SAPS when the unrest began, to stop the violence, before it spirals out of out of control?
These are several of the questions that still require answers, from which we must learn and apply, for sustainable future prevention, management, resolution of conflict, violence and socio-political unrest in South Africa.
If we go back to a day one of the unrest, we can reasonably infer that it began with a single contempt of court incident by a prominent individual, which then cascaded in widespread civil unrest. This must show us how delicate the rule of law is in this country.
There is a great and grave responsibility on each one of us appointed to public office, to uphold the rule of law and be an example to the nation with lawful behaviour. The President was correct when he described the protests as none less than the deliberate ... [Time expired.] We support the report.
Afrikaans:
Dr P J GROENEWALD: Voorsitter, ek wil begin om te sê dat die VF Plus sal die verslag, soos dit gepubliseer is, aanvaar, want dit is ’n korrekte weergawe van die bevindings van die komitee. Daarom sal ons dit ondersteun.
English:
If we look at the Portfolio Committee and its visit to KwaZulu-Natal, which I attended, and look at the findings and
recommendations, we must emphasise, firstly, that it found that the unrest should have been anticipated by the intelligence structures of South Africa, which they did not. Even the panel, established by the President, found that they grossly neglected to ensure the safety of the people.
Another recommendation and finding is that, it was not only a matter of unemployment that led to this unrest. In fact, it was a combination of unemployment, criminality and note, sabotage. The President even, at one stage, referred to it as an uprise. What we also say in the report is that we want to see that there are proper investigations, to ensure that those people who was part of this, can I say, uprise, and the unrest
... It is now suddenly correct to refer to the unrest. I see it as part of an uprise and we are waiting for those investigations.
Yes, we know, some people are investigated and some names have been called, but I did not see any high-profile politician’s name amongst those names.
Afrikaans:
Ek wil ook afsluit deur te sê dat die ondersoeke hopeloos te lank vat. Ek het byvoorbeeld ’n vraag aan die Minister gevra
oor die krat. U sal onthou daar was ’n hele houer vol ammunisie, wat net eenvoudig weggeraak het. Die kartonhouers van die ammunisie was in die pad opgetel. En tot vandag toe het ons geen antwoorde daarop nie. Dis onaanvaarbaar, want elke kartonhouers van ammunisie sê presies waar hulle vandaan kom, en wat die lot en die datums is. So, ons wag vir daardie vervolgings, anders is ons nog steeds besig om die mense van Suid-Afrika in die steek te laat. Ek dank u.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr S O R Mahumapelo): Thank you, hon Groenewald, I didn’t get the name of the next member to speak from the UDM for three minutes. I will assume that the UDM has chosen not to participate in the debate. The next member to speak for three minutes is from the ATM and I wasn’t given the name. Over to you, ATM. I assume that the ATM has elected not to participate in the debate. The next member to speak for three minutes I was not given the name is from Good and it will be my assumption as the Presiding Chair that Good has also elected not to participate in the debate. The next member to speak for another three minutes will be the NFP.
Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Thank you very, Chairperson. It’s Shaik- Emam here.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr S O R Mahumapelo): It’s you, hon Shaik-Emam?
Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Yes, sir, thank you very much.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr S O R Mahumapelo): I see you. You look very nice. You look very nice.
Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Thank you very much. I appreciate that, Chairperson.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr S O R Mahumapelo): You have got three minutes.
Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Thank you, sir. The National Freedom Party will support the report that is tabled here. Yes, indeed, I think what happened on 08 and 09 July, particularly in 2021 must never happen again. But it also shows very clearly how unprepared we were for an incident of this nature. Perhaps the South African Police Service lacked the capacity. The South African National Forces that were deployed at that time were not able to help to the extent that they could have prevented more and more casualties. We know today that over 350 people lost their lives. Of course, there was a lot of speculation in
the media about racist remarks, but the unfortunate thing is that despite all the investigations and inquiries, we still haven’t found out exactly how and why this happened. To that extent, I think the committee recommends that the Seventh Parliament pursue this matter. Yes, indeed, we will support this. We believe in what we need to get. What does that also tell us, Chairperson? If we are not prepared for incidents of this nature, can you look at another problem that we are facing? We have South Africans being trained in the Israeli Defence Forces. Can you imagine what kind of risk that poses to South Africa when they come back to South Africa? Given the fact that the defence force is on its knees and the lack of capacity of the South African Police Service? I hope you will be mindful of that as well.
But very importantly, I think the National Freedom Party believes that the only way we could deal with this and when we get to the bottom of exactly what was the root causes of this. Remember, it has cost us billions of rands. Look at the infrastructure that was damaged. I remember calling the chairman of the police station and being told that “we also need security, that we cannot do it, and that we have been overrun.” That’s how serious the situation is, and those
people behind it are sitting back and relaxing. I think there is only one person who has been convicted so far.
Many others have been arrested and nothing has happened, but three years later, still nothing has happened. I think that is unacceptable. But in light of that, the National Freedom Party will support the report and call on the authorities to speed up the process to hold accountable those who have destabilised the country, caused damage, and affected investment in this country. Thank you very much, Chairperson.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr S O R Mahumapelo): Thank you very much, hon Shaik-Emam. For the next three minutes, it is the Pan Africanist Congress of Azania and I was not given the name. It will be my assumption and my conclusion as the presiding officer that the Pan Africanist Congress of Azania elected not to be part of the debate.
Ms M A MOLEKWA: Thank you very much, Chairperson. The African National Congress rises in support of the oversight report of the Portfolio Committee on Police on the proposed Parliamentary Inquiry into the July 2021 unrest. President Cyril Ramaphosa, in his address to the nation on 5 August 2021 said, and I quote:
Three weeks have passed since the country experienced an orchestrated campaign of public violence, destruction and sabotage. While calm has been restored to the affected areas, our law enforcement agencies are working hard to bring those responsible to justice. We have acknowledged that our security services were found wanting in several respects. As part of the critical measures, we are undertaking to strengthen our security services and to prevent a recess recurrence of such events. I am appointing an expert panel to lead a thorough and critical review of our preparedness and the shortcomings in our response.
Indeed, the President appointed an expert panel chaired by Professor Sandy Africa, the South African Human Resource Women’s Rights Commission also had an inquiry to, inter alia, investigate the contributing factors that led to the unrest and the failure of the state security apparatus to effectively stop the unrest.
Having embarked on an Oversight Visit to KwaZulu-Natal, KZN and Gauteng in line with the oversight duty. On 17 August 2021, the Portfolio Committee on Police discussed draft terms of preference on the proposed inquiry for adoption. Without abdicating its responsibility of oversight and holding the
executive to account, the portfolio committee resolved to delay the enquiry until both the presidential inquiry and the South African Human Resource Commission had been finalised to avoid duplication of efforts. This has already been alluded to.
The Presidential Panel of Experts report was published in February 2022 and made thorough recommendations on how to strengthen security capabilities in South Africa.
Whilst awaiting the finalisation of the South African Human Research Council’s Inquiry, the committee sequestered the implementation plan by the South African Police Service on the recommendations made by the Presidential Panel of Experts Report. The committee received the SAPS implementation plan of the Presidential Panel of Experts into the July unrest.
Given the fact the tenth factor, we support the view that the parliamentary inquiry should become part of the committee’s legacy a report and be handed over to the Seventh Parliament for further action, monitoring, implementation and conclusion. In this regard, we support the report from the portfolio committee. Thank you very much.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION ON OVERSIGHT VISIT TO NORTHERN CAPE AND FREE STATE PROVINCES FROM 27-31 MARCH 2023
Ms T MGWEBA: House Chair and hon members, the committee undertook an oversight visit to the Northern Cape and Free State provinces on the 27th to the 31st of March 2023.
The committee appreciated a warm welcome by the offices of the Premier of the Northern Cape and Free State with their MECs and their Heads of Departments, HODs, participated during the first meeting.
We discussed the 30-day payment of invoices, disciplinary cases, service delivery improvement plans, filling of HODs’ posts, Thusong Service Centres and service inspection reports by the provincial Public Service Commissioners.
House Chair, with regard to the 30-day payment to service providers, challenges hindering the payment of service providers include inefficiency of this of the State Information Technology Agency, Sita, in terms of system downtime.
Concerning the Thusong Service Centres, the centres remain unfunded across all provinces. Despite challenges experienced in the Thusong Service Centres, the Centre for Public Service Innovation, which is mandated to drive innovative solutions in the public sector, is currently developing a model to digitalise the centres in the Northern Cape province.
House Chair, we are concerned about irregular appointments in the public sector which persists across the public administration. Although the Public Service Regulations of 2016 prohibits public servants from hindering directorship positions in companies, the results showed a high prevalence of such practices.
Hon House Chair, we undertook unannounced site visits in both provinces. We visited Home Affairs offices in Bloemfontein and Kimberley, which were relatively functional with few challenges.
We have visited hospitals in both provinces. The Robert Mangaliso Sobukwe Hospital in Kimberley requires national intervention to assist with the administration and the provision of healthcare services.
Hon House Chair, the Pelonomi Tertiary Hospital in the Free State province has improved tremendously from what the committee observed during the oversight visit in 2017. Both Pelonomi Tertiary Hospital and Botshabelo District Hospital were well-maintained in terms of cleanness and provision of healthcare services.
Then, hon House Chair, the report entails critical recommendations to enable interventions by the national department and provinces. We support this report, House Chair and hon members. I thank you.
Dr M M GONDWE: House Chairperson, a written reply to a DA parliamentary question by the Minister of Public Service and Administration in October last year revealed that out of the
11 provincial departments in the Northern Cape, seven had acting HODs. The written reply further revealed that out of the 12 provincial departments in the Free State province, six departments had acting HODs.
House Chairperson, the oversight visit to the Northern Cape and the Free State by the committee was, therefore, critical or significant for purposes of establishing the progress made
in filling these key government positions following the written reply.
Although the Northern Cape province, House Chairperson, was able to fill four out of the seven vacant HOD positions, at the time of our visit there were still a total of three provincial departments that had acting HODs.
The committee, House Chairperson, also learnt that the Free State province had managed to fill four out of the six vacant HOD positions.
Of particular concern to the committee, House Chairperson, is that at the time of our visit to both provinces, the HOD positions for critical frontline departments such as the Department of Police, Roads and Transport and Health continue to be vacant.
House Chairperson, the DA has consistently maintained that given the plethora of challenges that the Public Service is currently facing, especially at provincial government level, critical frontline departments such as the Department of Health cannot be expected to function at an optimal level in the absence of an accounting officer at the helm. We,
therefore, urge the Premiers of both provinces to treat the filling of these key government positions with the utmost priority.
House Chairperson, the filling of key positions in government is one of the first steps towards ensuring the effective delivery of services and strengthening accountability.
Regarding the status of disciplinary cases, House Chairperson, the committee was concerned to learn that less than 50% of disciplinary cases across all departments in the Northern Cape province were finalised within the prescribed timeframe of 90 days.
The committee also learnt that the Department of Health and Education accounted for the highest number of precautionary suspension and the costs of these suspensions, House Chairperson, amounted to R29,5 million and R15,4 million respectively. This, House Chairperson, is millions of rands that could have very well been spent on providing basic and essential services to the people of the Northern Cape.
The committee, House Chairperson, was also informed that 32,1% of misconduct cases in the Free State province are not
finalized within the prescribed timeframe of 90 days. The Departments of Education and Health in that province also account for 89% of all reported misconduct cases.
House Chairperson, it is also disturbing that insubordination constitutes the most prevalent form of misconduct reported in the Free State province. What is even more disturbing, House Chairperson, is that the longest running misconduct case in that province has been going on for eight years and nine months.
House Chairperson, the reality is that provinces are battling to finalise disciplinary cases within 90 days and this is hurting our fiscus badly. We, once again, call on the Department of Public Service and Administration, DPSA, to urgently implement a strategy that will end the existing discipline management crisis in the Public Service once and for all.
House Chairperson, although the Northern Cape is home to five Thusong Service Centres, the committee was able to pay a visit to only one of those centres, namely: The Manne Dipico Thusong Service Centre. The centre which is located in Roodepan, Kimberley, assists over one hundred clients per day and faces
what are primarily funding infrastructure and connectivity related challenges.
The Free State province, House Chairperson, currently has four functional centres after centres in that province were de- listed by the Government Communication and Information System, GCIS. Most of the centres in the Free State province, House Chairperson, like many other centres across the country face a myriad of challenges.
House Chairperson, it is really unfortunate that Thusong Service Centres, which boasts a history that spans over two decades, are today largely underfunded, understaffed, under-resourced and under-maintained.
House Chairperson, it has also become apparent that not a single government department is willing to step up and become the leading department for these centres.
The DPSA says Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, CoGTA, should be the lead department for these centres.
However, CoGTA remains noncommittal on whether it will take up this important task. This state of affairs, House Chairperson,
is telling of the government of the day and what its priorities are.
House Chairperson, the presence of these centres in some communities is literally the only connection or link that residents of those communities have to basic government services and information.
I am, therefore, calling on and challenging the Deputy President as the Leader of Government Business to champion the repositioning and continued existence of these centres across the country for the sake of those communities that depend on them dearly. I thank you. Ke a leboga.
Ms R N KOMANE: Chairperson, the purpose of the site visit was informed by the poor service delivery by some departments in both provinces. The filling of vacancies and the payment of service providers within 30 days and most importantly, Chair, to check the front line service by public servants, amongst others.
Chair, in the Northern Cape the provincial Department of Health still had approximately 90% of service providers owed, which has a very bad impact on small, micro and medium
businesses, also to the people who are working in those businesses because some of them are breadwinners.
The same department’s monthly report was inaccurate, there was poor alignment of budget and procurement plans, which also showed the inadequate internal capacity.
It is high time that government should introduce electronic invoice tracking system so that it provides and ensures accurate reporting.
The provincial departments are still struggling to compile service delivery improvement plans because the national departments never supported them, hence there was a request from the Northern Cape to the national department, DPSA.
Both provinces have existing Thusong Centres which should be assisting communities, but because we have an uncaring government, the centres are not budgeted for and there is no clear indication as to which department is responsible for these centres.
If these centres were operating well and have been
well-budgeted for, more government services would be accessed
easily and community members who travel long wouldn’t travel a long distance to access the services.
The involvement of managers in some departments within the provinces who are involved in activities that conflicts with their work is a major concern.
Chairperson, section 30 of the Public Service Act prohibits public servants to engage or perform other remunerative work outside their normal employment. Yet, we still have twelve Senior Manager Services, SMS, members in the Northern Cape engaged in other remunerative work and this seems to be more in the Department of CoGTA.
Chairperson, like in most areas in the country, the Kimberley Home Affairs offices are not well-located. We need to take the services to the people because most of our Home Affairs are located in towns and it’s not accessible to the needy people in rural areas as they have to travel more kilometres, which also cost more. Even after travelling these kilometres, the people are faced with the connectivity challenges due to Sita not playing its role.
Chair, we still have a high vacancy rate of funded posts in the Robert Sobukwe Hospital and most of the managers are acting.
Chairperson, it is high time that we now walk the talk and practice the Batho Pele that we say we are practising as the DPSA.
Chair, when the committee went to Robert Sobukwe Hospital, we were confronted with so many challenges, we were confronted with so many complaints from the community members.
So, Chairperson, it is high time that the DPSA takes its own
... [Inaudible.] ... serious and it is high time that our government must indeed take the services to the people.
But, by the way, it is not a problem, Chair, the EFF government, come next year, will show how this government should be run. Thank you very much.
Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Chair, it seems as though the IFP continuously calls for the same thing when we speak of the Public Service and Administration which is in desperate need for the implementation of accountability and transparent
measures. For the Public Service and Administration in our country to have any form of success, there needs to be a transparency and accountability at the top levels of leadership, particularly, for not fulfilling the mandate or violating regulations.
The Public Service Commission has received a large number of grievances relating to irregular appointments and unfair labour practices. This indicates that human resource management remains the core issue of the Public Service and Administration in these provinces. In relation to this, many Public Service servants have also found themselves guilty of violating the Public Service Regulation as they hold directorship positions in companies without necessary approval. This clearly shows that there is no regard for laws passed by Parliament before.
Therefore, we echo the sentiments of the Report by calling for the Department of Public Service and Administration to discipline government officials serving as directors in various companies without accounting officers’ approval.
Furthermore, the Report also presents us with depiction of the dismal state of the Public Service and Administration due to lack of stability in key leadership positions which seems to
be a similar trend to what we have seen in most state-owned enterprises. Healthcare service delivery is of utmost importance.
Therefore, hospitals across these provinces that share the same reality as Robert Mangaliso Sobukwe Hospital must receive an intervention to assist with administration and provision of healthcare services. No hospital should be forced to function without a capable and unstable managerial team as we have seen how this leads to a total collapse in service delivery. From this Report’s recommendations it is evident that ... [Inaudible.] ... based approach followed by various departments across the province has proven to be ineffective and in most instances disastrous. Therefore, the IFP calls on the Department of Public Service and Administration to enforce the interdepartmental collaboration approach to the challenges that we highlighted. The IFP supports the Report. Thank you.
We accept the Report, hon Chair.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr S O R Mahumapelo): Thank you. For the next three minutes from the FF Plus I don’t have a name. It is my assumption as the Presiding Chair that the FF Plus has opted not to participate in the debate. The UDM three minutes, I was not given the name. It is, therefore, my
conclusion as the Presiding Chair that the UDM elected not to participate in the debate. Three minutes for the ATM, I was not given the name. It is, therefore, my conclusion as the Presiding Chair that the ATM elected not to participate in the debate.
Three minutes for Good, also I was not provided with the name. My conclusion as this Presiding Chair is that Good elected not to participate in today’s debate. The next three minutes is for the NFP. My conclusion as this Presiding Chairperson is that the NFP elected not to participate in this debate. The next three minutes is for the Pan Africanist Congress of Azania. It is, therefore, my conclusion is the Presiding Chairperson that the Pan Africanist Congress of Azania opted not to be part of the debate. Our last speaker of the day for this Order will be hon M T Kibi, four minutes from the African National Congress.
Ms M T KIBI: Chair, good morning and good morning to the colleagues. Chair, I will switch off my video because of network. Hon Chair, building an ethical and capable developmental state is an ongoing process which requires multiple interventions to respond to various phases of the functioning of the Public Service. The principle of Batho Pele
is critical as our efforts as a portfolio committee are about ensuring that public service places the people in the center of socioeconomic transformation.
Our oversight visit to the Northern Cape and the Free State was an important visit to have a deep dive into the state of affairs in the public service and to assess the interventions which are being implemented. One factor contributing to low levels of accountability in departments is the lack of heads of department as they are accounting officers. Critical processes such as the implementation of audit action plans have been poorly implemented in institutions due to vacancies in critical positions. The Northern Cape had four departments with vacancies while the Free State had two head of department, HOD, vacancies. Some of these vacancies have been filled since our oversight visit which we commend the provinces for that.
The Report we are considering today makes various recommendations to strengthen service delivery and they require the Department of Public Service and Administration to monitor and support provinces on areas we identified requiring intervention such as repositioning some service centers and strengthening service delivery improvement plans
implementation. As part of our visit we also focused on the frontline services visiting Pelonomi ... [Inaudible.] ... Care Hospital which had 533 vacant posts above the 25% nonvacancy rate.
We also visited the Department of Home Affairs in Bloemfontein in the Rocklands area. The location of the offices demonstrates the spread of public services which is developmental. The facility is in the township and 10 kilometers away from the city. We were impressed by the cleanliness of the buildings. We visited the Botshabelo District Hospital on an unannounced visit. The chief executive officer, CEO, indicated that the hospital assisted over
210 000 people in the Botshabelo District. The Botshabelo District Hospital provides the full services of a district hospital. There are 13 clinics in the subdistrict, providing 24-hour services and one more mobile clinic.
In the Northern Cape we visited the Home Affairs office in Kimberley, which is relatively functioning but negatively impacted by poor connectivity. Robert Mangaliso Sobukwe Hospital is situated in the east of the town of Kimberley. The hospital requires infrastructure maintenance as there were health and safety concerns. We support this Report to enable
interventions by Parliament through the recommendations made to enhance the provision of public service and strengthen the Public Service. I thank you, hon Chair.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON POLICE ON OVERSIGHT VISIT TO FORENSIC SCIENCE LABORATORY IN AMANZIMTOTI, KWAZULU-NATAL, FORENSIC SCIENCE LABORATORY IN NORTH END AND NEW BRIGHTON POLICE STATION IN GQEBERHA, EASTERN CAPE, ON 29 AND 31 MARCH 2023
Mr A M SEABI: Chairperson, in March this year, the Portfolio Committee on Police undertook an oversight visit to the SA Police Service, the SAPS, forensic science laboratories in the Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal provinces. The aim of the visit was to assess the extent of flood damage to the KwaZulu-Natal forensic science laboratory located in Amanzimtoti and to view the recently refurbished forensic science laboratory located in North End, Gqeberha. As part of our oversight mandate, the committee also visited the New Brighton Police Station in Gqeberha to receive a first-hand account at station level of the functionality of the station as it is ranked high on the SAPS top 30 police stations with the highest murder rates in the country.
The committee also engaged with the local community police forums, CPFs, on the challenges that they experienced under their community-oriented mandate. During our visit to the ballistic and chemistry offices in Amanzimtoti, we engaged with the staff employed and expressed our deep concern about the equipment that was not functioning properly. The flood damage to the Amanzimtoti facilities were evident and not repaired. Due to the state of damage, DNA samples are being sent to Cape Town. This is delaying the analysis of DNA samples and having a great impact on the criminal justice system value chain.
Throughout our term, the committee has continuously expressed concern and dissatisfaction with the overreliance of the SAPS on the Department of Public Works and Infrastructure to build, maintain and lease buildings for the SAPS. This agreement is not working and is affecting the service delivery capacity of the SAPS. A solution must be found at Cabinet level. While we thank the Minister and department for the efforts that have been made to address this dependency, we urge the Minister of Police to intensify these efforts at an executive level.
The committee further visited the forensic science laboratory in North End in Gqeberha and conducted a walkabout to observe
the different sections in the laboratory. The facility is indeed a state of the art with modern equipment and technology. The committee was honoured to attend the official opening of the laboratory at the end of August 2023, which was officiated by His Excellency, hon President Ramaphosa.
The impact of load shedding is felt at all the SAPS forensic laboratories countrywide, although most have power backup systems, the time lapse for backup systems to kick in causes computer equipment to reboot, causing delays in processing of forensic evidence. We call for all the laboratories to be exempted from load shedding to prevent unnecessary downtime.
A key focus area of the committee throughout our term is the capacitation of community police forums. In this regard, we want to thank the Minister of Police for granting R70 million to assist CPFs countrywide to fulfil their mandate. We express our appreciation to the Minister for this grant, and as stated during our annual report hearings, we urge the department to monitor the spending of these funds to ensure that we get value for money and a return on this investment. From our oversight ... [Time expired.]
M.Gen O S TERBLANCHE: Hon Chairperson and hon members of this House, the Portfolio Committee on Police undertook an oversight visit from 28 to 31 March 2023 to Kwazulu-Natal and the Eastern Cape provinces. The purpose of this visit was to determine the extent of the flood damage to the Amanzimtoti Forensic Service Laboratory and to view the Gqeberha’s refurbished facility. The committee also visited the New Brighton Police Station to determine the course for its persistently performing part of the top 30 police stations with the highest number of murders being committed in the country.
South Africa continues to be plagued by unacceptably high levels of serious crime, while the police seem unable to find lasting solutions. The investigation of crime has specifically detection rate at an extremely poor level to such an extent that the criminals are almost encouraged to risk committing these atrocious crimes. Evidently, for them, the fruits of their crimes far outweigh the odds of possibly being arrested or prosecuted. Sadly, in South Africa crime does pay at the moment.
The analysis of DNA samples and the availability of these reports are critical to initiate successful court proceedings
and prosecutions in a court of law. Unfortunately, we have a very negative history on this issue. Forensic laboratories have accumulated an extensive backlog of analysis in the past, mainly due to insufficient capacity or other operational problems. The Qgeberha facility added capacity that was urgently required and the historical backlog clearly shortly after.
This state-of-the-art facility is a very welcomed addition to the police’s existing forensic laboratories. Unfortunately, even today the capacity available in the country is still insufficient as the majority of KwaZulu-Natal’s DNA samples still needs to be processed by the Cape Town laboratory, while the capacity in KwaZulu-Natal is still very limited. This urgent need must be addressed and swiftly. In the existing capacity must be ensured through fixed contracts to maintain all available equipment and keep essential consumptive bills on hand to perform critical analysis. This, along with overtime pay and the use of human and material resources according to required shift schedules will need to be supported in the pursuit of the future.
The New Brighton Police Station is a typical example of an outdated police station in a fast-growing urban area due to
the following factors - all dilapidated and crammed buildings, insufficient human and physical resources, no visible policing being executed, unacceptably high detective caseloads, dysfunctional CPFs system, lack of proper married and single living quarters, silo approach instead of an integrated service delivery approach with other government departments and stakeholders.
The Liquor Board is a good case in point where there are just too many taverns and liquor outlets in the station area. The afore-mentioned inadequacy contributing factors as to why the police stations remains on the list of the top 30 stations where most murders are being committed. These environmental factors are not conducive to building a healthy and prosperous community, and the challenge of controlling crime in this and similar sectors is paramount. This is the first step to turn the situation around. Investors and others with the ability to initiate recovery will only begin to step in when safety and security is restored. The DA supports the report. I thank you.
Afrikaans:
Mnr V GERICKE: Voorsitter, ek praat met trots namens die EFF op hierdie item.
English:
House Chairperson, while we did not partake in the oversight visits, we are acutely aware of the dysfunctionality of forensic science laboratories across the nation. Numerous cases of rape, robbery, hijacking and other heinous crimes remain unresolved due to the absence of DNA analysis. For the past five years, the EFF has consistently highlighted the issue of backlog. The Minister of Police’s initial reaction was denial of any nationwide backlog, yet recently we have been informed of a supposed decrease in these numbers.
The prevailing crisis in forensic science laboratories stems from the ANC government’s reluctance to fortify its state capacity. It is only an EFF government that will steadfastly rebuild and enhance the state capacity of forensic science laboratories, ensuring justice for our people. Though the committee undertook oversight visits to these laboratories earlier this year, feedback from the workers indicates unchanged conditions. The damages caused by flooding have left the laboratories in a deplorable state, echoing concerns raised during the visit. Alarmingly, the absence of a practical and credible plan to address this crisis remains evident. As we await tenders that are vulnerable to corruption, inflated pricing and substandard work, our
people’s quest for justice for DNA analysis remains unmet. We concur with the report’s recommendations that the SAPS should transition from renting facilities to owning the infrastructure. This should become standard practice for all government departments, not solely municipalities.
The escalating state of crime in Gqeberha, particularly homicides, is deeply unsettling. As we have reiterated before, crime cannot be curtailed without addressing the root causes of poverty and unemployment. We all know what those root causes are - the social ills in our communities. We stand in solidarity with the community police forums, advocating that all police stations rejuvenate CPF desks and ensure equitable sharing of resources with CPFs. It’s incomprehensible that CPFs face challenges in accessing basic necessities like printing posters and airtime. More so, the delaying in crucial information sharing with the SAPS is detrimental.
In conclusion, the lack of communication regarding these adopted reports to our citizenry is a grave concern.
Furthermore, the location of Parliament in Cape Town restricts our people’s direct involvement and participation. This in turn, impedes the formulation of practical recommendations that can truly transform the lives of our constituencies. I
present this submission with pride on behalf of the EFF. Thank you very much.
Ms Z MAJOZI: Thank you, hon House Chair, forensic science and our forensic science laboratories and technicians are critical links in the criminal justice system as the evidence they provide to our courts is often the deciding scientific evidence that ensures that justice is delivered. Despite this critical service, our forensic laboratories function at the lowest levels of operation, adversely affecting criminal court outcomes and hindering overall effectiveness.
One of the most pressing issues is the increasing backlog of cases awaiting analysis. Due to such ongoing delays, we received numerous constituency complaints where families cannot bury loved ones because forensic has not yet completed their work. This places a terrible strain on families who are seeking closure in matters where forensic science is involved. Our forensic laboratories require a full national audit and such problems as insufficient resources, equipment that is old and outdated and no longer works and human resources who lack the required skill sets are causing significant delays in processing evidence. These delays’ our criminal justice system and often leads to justice not being served as cases are
thrown out of court with lack of evidence. [Inaudible.]
... to this is ongoing further education and training for our forensic scientific and the field of forensic science changes daily to keep pace with technological development. This is critical, therefore, that our scientific receive continuous training to keep up with advancement.
Budgets must be made available by the department to ensure the modernisation and expansion of our forensic laboratories. Poor working environment attracts poorly skilled workers. What is the department doing to attract youth into the field of forensic by providing bursaries to deserving learners, who show dedication and interest in forensic science. Implementing an efficient case management system and workflows must be introduced. An additional skills technicians must be employed to optimise the processing of evidence reduced backlog.
Chairperson, the strengthening of forensic science laboratories in South Africa is critical for the effective functioning of our criminal justice system. We must address the backlog of cases, employ national skills, human resources, invest infrastructure and technology, improve training and accreditation and streamline processes to ensure timely justice delivery and enhance public trust in our forensic
science institutions. The IFP supports the report and supports the forensic science in South Africa being world class. Thank you, Chair.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr S O R Mahumapelo): Thank you very much, hon Majozi. Three minutes, Freedom Front Plus. I have not been provided with the name. It is therefore my conclusion as the presiding officer that the Freedom Front Plus has elected not to participate in the debate. For the next three minutes, we are given the UDM and I am not provided with the name. It is my conclusion as the presiding officer that the UDM elected not to be part of the debate. Three minutes, ATM, I have no name before me. My assumption as the presiding officer is that the ATM has made a choice not to participate in the debate. I have now moved to Good for three minutes. It is my conclusion as the presiding officer that Good has elected not to be part of the debate on this order.
We are moving over to the NFP for three minutes and no name was provided to me.
Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Thank you, Chair, I’ve had the opportunity of joining the Portfolio Committee on Police and I must tell you, it was one of those remarkable troops, particularly when we went to visit at that stage it was under completion and
that was the forensic laboratory and indeed, with what was explained to us, we saw the fruits of it not long, much later that when the President officially opened the DNA laboratory and we also had a briefing from ... on how to reduce the backlog. So, yes, indeed, I must admit and congratulate the SAPS on a job well done that is now going to help accelerate the process of cases before the court, many of cases which get withdrawn or thrown out because of the delays in DNA. Having said that, I will talk about the excellent award that was just given to the Durban drugs squad, particularly and for having best performed in the Kwazulu-Natal province with R24 million worth of drugs that were recovered. This, indeed, I think, shows that there are very committed and dedicated people in the Police Service. However, now we went to the New Brighton and one of the matters that was raised all the time, Chairperson is the fact that legal licences are being awarded up until two o'clock in the morning. Local authorities are extending them 24 hours, causing high levels of crime, limited resources, poor working conditions. In fact, we found that even in the laboratory in Amanzimtoti very dedicated and motivated staff, but after the flooding badly damaged, very little was done to rectify those poor working conditions. So, police officers are working under horrendous conditions, travelling long distances, living in informal settlements.
That is why we suggest that take these hijacked buildings and provide housing, renovate them for police officers, motivate them so they can be more committed and dedicated.
On the issue of CPFs, they were complaining about resources, and we think that matter must be addressed as well. Although we know that in terms of the mandate, CPFs were supposed to be more voluntary organisations, but at the same time you cannot expect CPF members to be paid from ... [Inaudible.]. It is totally unacceptable. So, there are lots of recommendations that have been made to the portfolio committee and I think, we support all the recommendations here. We are calling on SAPS to look at these recommendations, but more importantly, make sure that you implement them and deal with the challenges that our police officers are facing on a daily basis.
Chairperson, every other day, police officers are dying, it can’t be acceptable. That is an act of treason, a threat against the state. So, we need to deal with it. The National Freedom Party supports this report. Thank you, Chairperson I know you are looking at me because I have to go.
Ms M M GOMBA: Hon House Chair, the ANC rises in support of the oversight of the Report of Portfolio Committee on Police.
Debate concluded. The National Development Plan, NDP, requires amongst others that we build safer communities, promote accountability, fight corruption and strengthen judicial government and the rule of law. The National Assembly has a
constitutional duty as outlined in section 55(2)(b)(i) and
(ii) of the Constitution to maintain oversight over the national executive and the state organs.
Hon House Chair, from 29 and 31 March 2023, the Portfolio Committee on Police undertook an oversight visit to the Forensic Science Laboratory in Amanzimtoti, KwaZulu-Natal, Forensic Science Laboratory in Gqeberha and the New Brighton Police Station in Gqeberha, Eastern Cape. We appreciate that the newly refurbished Eastern Cape laboratory is operational. It has since been officially opened by President Ramaphosa.
The laboratory will speed up investigations into amongst others, gender-base violence and femicide, GBVF. The improved forensic capability will expedite the investigations and help build strong cases with solid evidence.
With regards to community police forums, CPFs, we recommended that the SA Police Service, SAPS, should make the resources available to avoid a situation where a CPF members utilises their own resources to execute their duties, and the
Community-in-Blue concept should be fully implemented in all the police stations in the Gqeberha area. Also, the CPF members must be issued with the required resources such as bibs.
It was reported that the New Brighton area has a population of
98 849 people and has 81 taverns. The SAPS informed the
committee that the growth in the number of taverns has made it difficult to police the area. The SAPS also emphasised the
strong correlation between violent crime and GBVF with substance abuse. The danger and the devastating effects of
alcohol abuse are well known. We support the committee’s view that all spheres of government must work together to address
the escalating crime level.
Our focus is to ensure that the South Africans are and feel
safe as per the National Development Plan, NDP, in our quest to make the country the much better place to live in. We also need to work hard hand in hand. The ANC supports the report, and I thank you, hon House chair.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr S O R Mahumapelo): Hon members, just before we close the proceedings of the third order of the day, as you know that South Africa is playing the World Cup as
far as the cricket is concerned, currently, the score is 45 for two, with South Africa bowling and Pakistan betting, the run rate is about 5,5. We wish our cricket team well, and we hope that they are going to do their country proud. Tomorrow, the Springboks will be playing New Zealand, the All Blacks.
We take this opportunity to wish the team of our country well. The President with his team is going there to support our rugby team and we hope that they will take every arsenal at their disposal to throttle New Zealand and make sure that they come home with the cup. At this point, I want to thank the staff of Parliament for making sure that the transmission of today’s proceedings proceeds seamlessly without any hiccups.
We also want to thank the hon members for the manner in which they participated in the debates. To the South Africans who have watched the debates on various platforms provided by Parliament as part of democracy and transparency, we also want to thank you for following the proceedings. This brings us to the end of today’s proceedings, and the mini-plenary therefore is adjourned.
Setswana:
Tsamayang sentle. Re a leboga.
Debate concluded.
The mini-plenary session rose at 11:13.
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