Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised hansard
House: National Council of Provinces
Date of Meeting: 11 Oct 2023
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Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
WEDNESDAY, 11 OCTOBER 2023
PROCEEDINGS OF VIRTUAL (OR HYBRID) NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
Watch here: Plenary
The Council met at 14:12.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Good afternoon, hon members, I want to request that before we start with our meeting, as part of our moment of silence for prayer or meditation, we all also observe this moment of silence for making sure that we pass our condolences to the country and to the families of our servicemen who lost lives in the two incident tragedies at Simon’s Town, where we lost three of our servicemen in the navy, as well as in Lohatla, where six soldiers were killed in a veld fires that raged through the base. Can we just observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
I just want to remind delegates that the Rules that apply to a virtual and hybrid meetings and sittings in particularly sub- Rule 21, 22, and 23 of Rule 103, which provides as follows:
The hybrid sitting constitutes a sitting of the National Council of Provinces. Delegates in the hybrid sitting enjoy the same powers and privileges that apply in a sitting of the National Council of Provinces. For purposes of the quorum, all delegates who are locked onto the virtual platform shall be considered present. Delegates must switch on their videos if they want to speak, and they should ensure that the microphones on their electronic devices are muted and must remain muted unless they are permitted to speak. All delegates in the Chamber may connect to the virtual platform as well as insert their cards to register on the Chamber system.
Delegates who are physically in the Chamber must use the floor microphones. All delegates may participate in the discussions through the chatroom.
In addition, I would like to remind delegates that the interpretation facility is active. Permanent delegates, special delegates, Salga representatives and members of the executive on the virtual platform are requested to ensure that the interpretation facility on their electronic devices is properly activated to facilitate access to the interpretation services. The delegates and members of the executive in the Chamber should use the interpretation instruments on their desks to access the interpretation facilities.
QUESTIONS: CLUSTER 2D – SOCIAL SERVICES
Question 220:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Your Excellency
the Deputy Chair of the National Council of Provinces, Comrade Sylvia Lucas, House Chair, and delegates, I want to indicate to Your Excellencies that the intervention in terms of section
63 of the Water Services Act at Emfuleni, initially there were delays because we deployed the South African National Defence Force. Subsequently, a company, a state entity that is working for Ekurhuleni, could not resolve the problem of the sewers running into the streets but also impacting on the water system in the Vaal River. Subsequently, the Minister of Water and Sanitation, Comrade Senzo Mchunu, appointed Rand Water as an implementing agent. I want to report that I was then appointed as a co-chair of a political steering committee that consists of more than 50 organizations, nongovernment organizations, NGOs, and community-based organizations, including the province of Gauteng and Emfuleni and the district of Sedibeng. We want to report that the intervention was concentrating on issues of the repairing of infrastructure because most of the critical infrastructure has collapsed and especially the four wastewater treatment works, but also the pipes that are supposed to transport water into the wastewater
treatment system had collapsed because there were issues of vandalism, but also on the basis of the age, the pump station that must support in pumping in an instance where the gravitational force will not be available to pump, and most of these thousands and thousands litres of water were polluting the Vaal system. I want to report that in most areas the sewer has been removed from people’s homes. The Sebokeng Water Treatment Works has been upgraded to give an additional 50 megalitres. As I speak now, because of the operational efficiency of Rand Water, the effluent has started to be treated and it meets the South African National Standard.
Also, work has been completed in terms of refurbishment of several pump stations. Pump station numbers two, eight, nine and 10 are now at practical completion, but more importantly, they are operational. There has also been a replacement of several pipelines that have totally collapsed that we don’t have to fix them because the sewer was running into people’s homes, whether in Evaton or in Sebokeng, especially extension
10. We need also to indicate that currently the department is doing the replacement of additional 24 collapsed pipelines to stop the sewer spillages at Emfuleni. We are in a position now to indicate that the additional pump stations are being attended to. We are also increasing the capacity of the
wastewater treatment system because it has increased, especially in Loskuil, Sebokeng, and Rietspruit from 15 megalitres to 50 megalitres respectively. These upgrades will start in April.
I need to indicate that the relationship between the implementing agent, Rand Water and Emfuleni has improved significantly. We are currently building the capacity of Metsi-a-Lekwa so that they will be able to take over these issues. We have been able to work jointly with communities to end the disruption that the community used to make. There are no disruptions of these issues. Our concern remains on issues of security and vandalism. More money is spent on security than should have been spent on issues of cleaning up the system.
The other matter we must attend to is the debt that is owed by Emfuleni to Rand Water that has hampered the issues of delivery. We are looking at an option now where there is going to be a partnership between Rand Water and Emfuleni, where Rand Water will use its balance sheet, they will take over the assets, replace them, ensure that there are proper billing system meters, collect the money, and invest back into the system at a particular point when Rand Water has its own
investment, they will be able to hand over back the system to the municipality that is able to discharge its responsibility in terms of the Water Services Act. I thank you.
Mr T S C DODOVU: Chairperson of the session, let me take this opportunity to also thank the Deputy Minister hon Mahlobo for his response. I think it is quite detailed. I may also hasten to say, hon Mahlobo, that the continued challenges in that municipality of Emfuleni ... but we are happy that you are doing everything in respect to addressing the issues in the way that you have explained in a very collective effort in terms of the District Development Model, and this inspires confidence. We want to thank you very much. Having said that, it is evident that there is progress in the operations and maintenance of water and sewer infrastructure in Emfuleni Local Municipality, as you indicated. But the question would be: How far is the process of capacitating the Metsi offices with tools of trade and staff appointments to ensure that we continue to assist and extricate the Emfuleni municipality?
Thank you very much.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Comrade Chair,
Mtimande, to hon Comrade Dodovu, we are very pleased that this municipality called Emfuleni has collapsed because remember,
the account of Emfuleni had been attached by Eskom on the basis that they are owing the electricity, Rand Water had attached the account. There was a time when on TV you could see the fleet that was being taken. I want to put it on record, Your Excellency Chair, that the department working with Rand Water, have given them the tools of trade. As I speak right now, we have given them more than 36 bakkies that are being used by the employees so that even if there is a pipe bursts, they are able to respond. We have given them the yellow fleet so that some of these issues can be dealt with. That’s the issue of capacitation.
We have also trained their employees using the Rand Water Foundation as scientists created a telemetry so that they can be able to measure the water that gets into the wastewater system. They can also ensure that there is proper treatment. So, the water that gets into the Vaal system is of a standard in terms of the wastewater treatment works that is acceptable. We are continuously working with them to support them in building the institution so that on its own it can be able to do the issues of operations and maintenance. Initially, there were challenges where there were labour issues where workers felt that this issue of Rand Water is about taking their work, but all those issues working with the executive mayor Radebe,
we were able to resolve them, and everybody can see that now is a win-win situation. They are also assisting them to build what we call the issues of customer care so that when citizens report issues of any leaks or any sewage that goes through the streets, they can respond, including the teams that are technical that if there are any blockages or any main hole that has problems, they are able to respond timeously. And we are very confident that if we stay together, we capacitate this institution because we don’t want to take over, but ultimately, we must build the capacity so they can discharge this responsibility so that nobody at Emfuleni can live in inhumane conditions where the environment is harmful and polluted. Thank you very much, Madam Mtimande.
Mr D R RYDER: House Chairperson, Deputy Minister, it seems that 63 is not only the name of the paragraph which has authorized the intervention, but it also seems like it is a target because while Rand Water is there, they have allowed non-revenue water to balloon to 63,4% under their watch. It brings into question the fact that is there no conflict of interest by having the seller of bulk water to the municipality also being responsible for the prudent management of the resource? Deputy Minister, at 63% water loss, the municipality is running at a substantial loss and therefore
has no chance of paying for their current use, never mind the historical debt which resulted - as you mentioned in Rand Water - seizing the bank accounts of the municipality, and that action prevents the municipality from fulfilling their constitutional mandates. So, the solution that you have just mentioned in your in your response, Minister, is welcome, that Rand Water will take a bigger control. But give us some details, please, Mr Deputy Minister. We are still waiting for the details of the section 63 intervention, which have been requested on numerous occasions. The terms of reference for that intervention has not been forthcoming. So, in terms of how you plan to change the delivery of water services for the people of Emfuleni, there is a constitutional obligation that goes to public participation. Specifically, if you look at the Municipal Systems Act that details a specific process that needs to follow, we will need to follow that, sir. So, rather, as a shorter version, do you not think it is time since Emfuleni cannot deliver on their constitutional mandate? Don’t you believe you should be recommending to Cogta that they implement section 139 of the Constitution effectively and dissolve the municipality? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Your Excellency
hon Mtimande, Mr Ryder decides to put too many issues, maybe
let’s do this, Chair: Firstly, our mandate when we went there
... we went there because people were exposed to inhumane conditions and there was a violation of human rights that even young people were growing up under conditions of sewer. They knew nothing except the sewer that was there. Our intervention in terms of section 63 does not normally come alone, it comes with supporting the issues of section 139. Already, that municipality had been put under section 139 of the Constitution of which the Houses of Parliament have authorized that intervention. That was an enabling tool. But going forward, we are reviewing the legislation, especially the Water Services Act, to give us powers to intervene even in the absence of section 139. Therefore, to call for another section
139 is not advisable, and it is more about political opportunism. We must indicate that now that the matter of sewer is being addressed in totality, and people can see there is a positive change. The citizens of Emfuleni are saying we don’t have water; we must address the problem of water. Our response is to say if you lose 63-65% of your water, that drop that goes on the ground is required by citizens, but it’s a revenue loss. And as we know that municipality and others elsewhere in the country, including Tshwane, will have no financial capability to be able to replace the infrastructure because the infrastructure must be replaced. It has collapsed,
it is old. That’s why we are promoting issues of the use of state-owned enterprises like the water board. With a good balance sheet, they can go to the market, ensure that they are able to come in, invest, replace the infrastructure, and collect the revenue for a particular period. Then you train the institution, which is like Metsi-a-Lekwa, then you transfer the asset that is called Build, Operate and Transfer, BOT. That’s the idea that we want municipalities to follow, but when that decision is being made by the municipal council, all the necessary legislation, including issues of approval of council, and getting the issues of confirmation by the citizens. That is our expectation, Chairperson, that I thought we should be able to respond to. But there is a turnaround, and we can share the information with Members of the NCOP. We can bring Rand Water. What are our terms of reference? What are our project plan and project details? But we do report to our select committee chaired by His Excellency Comrade Dodovu. They are quite aware that our plan is responsive, and our plan is working. Thank you.
Mr K MOTSAMAI: Thank you, Minister, Minister, you have for years known that those facilities were undermaintained, yet nothing was done to solve the problem. As a result, 23 people died of cholera at Hammanskraal. Considering this, what
measures have been put in place by the joint task team to ensure that in future lack of maintenance doesn’t affect our people, especially from Hammanskraal?
Setswana:
Ke a leboga, Modulasetulo.
English:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Hon Chair ...
IsiZulu:
... manje uBaba u-Motsamai ...
English:
... is starting to ask the question that hon Comrade Dangor is still going to ask about issues of Hammanskraal in Tshwane. It is safe to say, Chair, that local government ... we must never take it away from them, and that over the past 29 years they have been at the forefront of providing services to all our citizens, including those that were excluded. In other words, access to water, like the Census report that was received by President yesterday is more than 90%, but we are the first to admit that there is a certain percentage of South Africans that are still being left out and is our intention to
reach them and we want to say to them, in the meantime, the provision of water and sanitation will be done in terms of interim measures. But we must admit that when it came to infrastructure, while we expanded the services, there was a neglect or underinvestment on operations and maintenance. That is why our decisions as national government, the Minister and the Minister of Cogta, are discussing with the Minister of Finance about some of our grants that they must be used as a once off to make provision for operation and maintenance, in the main to replace old infrastructure so that the reliability of the availability of a service can remain above 90% rather than dropping in some of these municipalities to below 67%.
That is our intention. But the other intention of helping on operations and maintenance, we are saying that municipalities’ biggest income is water and electricity, the money that comes from water sales must be ring-fenced, a certain portion of that money must be invested back so that at least we can guarantee that for an asset to be able to be giving us a service over a particular period, we need to keep it in good condition. But some of the aspects that
IsiZulu:
... uBaba u-Motsamai ...
English:
... is asking about issues of cholera and so forth, when we deal with the other question, under the leadership of His Excellency Comrade Dangor, we should be able to respond about issues of Hammanskraal. Thank you.
Mr M A P DE BRUYN: House Chair, Deputy Minister, since the same as Emfuleni Municipality, several municipalities in the Free State, like Mangaung Metro and the Kopanong Local Municipality, for instance, have been polluting our water resources for many years now, for instance, the raw sewage that is being spilled into the Gariep Dam. Now, Deputy Minister, will your department consider invoking section 63 in these municipalities as well since the Gariep Dam is the largest dam in South Africa? I am sure you would agree to the urgency of this matter, especially since Kopanong Municipality is not able to govern itself. Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Your Excellency
Mtimande, hon De Bruyn is opposing a new question, but it is safe to say that the issues of pollution of ward is a matter that we take very seriously because one of the things that is going to happen is that the country is not going to run out of water, but the water will not be fit for use on the basis of
the pollution that is caused by municipalities and industries
- we must not exclude industries.
Our attitude is twofold, Chairperson, is that those who pollute, must stop doing it. And if they don’t do that, we are going to prosecute them. Several municipalities are being prosecuted, whether in Mpumalanga or elsewhere where we have given them directives because pollution is an offence and it even has an implication around the issues of the treatment costs because if it is more polluted, you must pay the premium around issues of treatment. In Mangaung, we don’t have an intention of putting section 63, Chair, we are assisting them working with the premier of the province to turnaround the situation around their wastewater treatment works that are not functioning well. I had an opportunity to go and investigate those issues. In Jaggersfontein, we also know that there are issues that are there because of the mining operation where the wastewater treatment works got destroyed, and it has been cleaned, Chair. The wastewater treatment plant in Jaggersfontein in Kopanong has been brought back into functionality and there is no pollution that is happening. But that municipality is very small, is a conglomeration of small dorpies and it will never be financially viable. Hence the
support of the state and the private sector is an important imperative. Thank you, Mtimande.
Question 228:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Your Excellency,
Chair, we need to respond on the issues of water loses by the water boards. You look at Matola, the loses is 8,74%, Bloem Water is 9%, Lepelle Northern Water 6,37%, Magalis 4,4%.
Mtlathuze 2,56%, Overberg 9,48%, Rand Water at 4,7% and Umgeni Water at 2,7%. These losses, Chair, comparatively to the loses with other water entities or utilities in the world, we compare very well.
What are these reasons, Chair? The reasons of water losses in any water system, for example, when you are doing your backwash there is going to be water that is going to be lost. The very same way when you are actually cleaning your swimming pool there is a lot of water that is being used. Is it acceptable in terms of the norm whether it is not acceptable? The answer here, it is acceptable. But some of these water boards, Chair, there are those that are little bit higher on the basis that there is an issue of loadsheddding. When there is a loadshedding there is a flooding of the system then we have to be able to deal with water system. It’s just an
operational matter. There are certain instances in some of our bulk system where there are issues of vandalism of the bulk system. Hence this water boards have measures to deal with issues of security. But there is also some illegal connection.
Most of our water boards, Chair, the infrastructure is maintained is in good condition. But some water boards because their balance sheets and their liquidity is not the same some of their biggest pipelines they get to collapse and when there is an infrastructure failure then some of them they take little bit time in terms of responding to those particular issues. But that is an answer.
Our biggest issue is not on the bulk water loses, Chair, is more on the distribution system especially the system of municipalities where the average on non-revenue water on the basis of physical losses and including the issues of illegal connection it runs between 30% to 45%. In some instances, like eThekwini, it runs around 52%. Here in Tshwane, it runs more than 40%, in Johannesburg, we are running close to 60% and somewhere at Emfuleni where it runs between 63 and 65%. Thank you very much, Chairperson.
Mr C F B SMIT: Hon Deputy Minister, I must say I am a bit disappointed that neither the Minister or the Deputy Minister thought it necessary to be in the House today. Deputy Minister, according to the response from the department on Question 239, a total amount of R1,085 billion worth of water revenue were lost by only the water boards throughout the country due to water leakages and theft. These amounts do not even consider as you said the losses and theft of water at local government level as well as the distribution networks to the actual consumers.
Deputy Minister, can you today confirm that this cost is actually cost carded down to the consumers that do pay to foot the bill for your department failures and incompetence? Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): But I am asking for clarity here. Are you asking on question 229 or 228?
Mr C F B SMIT: The question 239 was a written question. So, the question 228 refers to the question 239, which was a written question. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Thanks very much for your explanation. Hon Deputy Minister?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Well, hon Smit,
it’s very unfortunately because we are masking the truth and the truth and the truth is that we have done well over the last 29 years and our citizens for the first time they have access to water, including the economic benefits of water.
These water boards like legislatures, you made the law in terms of the Water Services Act. Their responsibility is a bulk system and when they manage the bulk to ensure that we don’t run out of water the water is treated to the International Best Practice standards and the SA National Standard, SANS, 241. These water boards have been very successful and if we have been working in an engineering environment like some of us have done in water over years these figures around the issues of the losses they are acceptable in terms of the norm. You can go to the Kingdom of Netherlands, you can go to the UK, we are comparatively doing well. But you are correct it to say that for every drop of water that is being lost there is a financial implication because what happens from the tariff setting just for the development charge and the raw water charge. Those are some of
the issues that you look at even in term of the formula and I want to say on record, it is not being passed to the end user. It’s not passed to those who are buying water but at the very same time dealing with issues of infrastructure failure and the conditional assessment of infrastructure that’s why in the initial point when I was responding to Emfuleni, we are spending more of our time to ensure that infrastructure is that a bedrock of providing services, it’s in good condition.
Hence, our President when he decided to do the Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan, he prioritised infrastructure because the availability of the service and the growth of our economy and investment confidence depends on this infrastructure. Where there are losses in municipalities, we would not look away as national government. We are supporting them with our grant and other options that are on the table. Thank you very much, Chairperson.
Ms S SHAIKH: It is noted Deputy Minister that you also indicated that vandalism is one of the main causes of water loss. You also mentioned that water boards are taking measures to deal with this. My question Deputy Minister is, are there any programmes in collaboration with the Security Cluster to
look at stopping these acts of sabotage? And if yes, how successful is this programme? Thank you, House Chair.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Chair, we are
very pleased that one of the biggest issue that we need to report, there is an impact of illegal mining especially happening in the province of Gauteng to a certain degree also happening in Free State.
One of the things that have happened is that, Rand Water, which is one that has a lot of water that it produces just the licence that we have given them of more than 5 000 megalitres that they could produce per day. Well, sometime these zama zamas, they go and interfere with these big pipelines that we have. They actually interfere with the servitude setting of our lines. There is one area here in West Rand where they were interfering even with gas pipe and the water pipe. These are some of the instances where we lose water. But we are using technology so that we can be able to do remote sensing. You can be in a position to see that the pressure in this particular area is now fluctuating - is going down. Then there is a displacement of the teams in terms of security.
But we are working very close with the Security Cluster so that we can be in a position to deal with some of these issues. But there is also issues of community awareness and civic education. That’s why in most of these water boards, you could see putting out adverts and say don’t encroach into our line in terms of the servitude because when they encroach they will do illegal connection but the pressure on those particular pipes, it can cause disasters and many people can die.
We are now looking at the possibility of technology because the technology that we used in the past there are certain of these pipes that is easy to interfere. You can do the illegal connections. These are some of the options that we are looking at but these things cannot be resolved alone. As long as communities they don’t play their part because these loses they are hitting us in terms of the fiscus.
Mr N M HADEBE: Hon Minister, this water crisis has become so dire in the country over the years as we have mere 41% loss importable water due to poor infrastructure. Hon Deputy Minister, I would like to know what actionable solutions are being implemented by the department to address these issues
through the projected water needs of the population over the next 20 years? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: There is a
plethora of initiatives Bhungane that we take. One of the biggest issue is to sort out the conditions of infrastructure because if the infrastructure is not actually renewed, we are losing a lot of water and it goes to the ground and citizens, they need it, and municipalities are losing that. That’s why the decision that 10% of nick must go to oil is a good decision. But some of these municipalities are not complying to that.
One of the decision we have made is to engage Treasury that let’s do a once-off where your original Bulk Infrastructure Grant, your Water Services Improvement Grant including the Urban Settlements Development Grant, USDG, for the metros. A certain portion must be taken to ensure that it goes back to look at the issue of the infrastructure because if it is fixed, we would avoid water loses but at the very same time, we can put the meters, the pressure valves so that we don’t have problems in dealing with that particular issue.
But we have also said to municipalities put water conservation and demand management. But we can’t say to people who do not have safe water when you don’t receive one. But the water conservation and demand management, it involves issues of assets management, it involves issues of governance, institutional management but also the issues of community mobilisation because in our own experience if these people who are managing the plants they don’t put pressure reducing valves that you can use during night falls, you lose a lot of water. But if you condone also do restriction, you lose a lot of water. But if you don’t involve citizens in terms of water wise campaigns, don’t be actually use so much water for bathing or used the water that you are actually using clean water for issues of irrigation. But even how we do our own issues of the built environment going forward, we must also produce only water devices even for our own homes those devises must promote efficiency. You can’t have a toilet that is actually flushing 20 litres while in other public facility like the shops, the garden buildings and everywhere. Those devises are the most important component but in the main, we must fix the assets. When the asset is fixed, you will have the returns. Where there is no money, we are saying private sector must come in, build, operate, training and transfer, connect the money over a particular period, hand back the
assets to the Water Service Authority. But like in eThekwini as example, Umgeni Water is going to take over those waste water plants of eThekwini because there is a lot of loses that are happening in eThekwini, including the issues of the influence that both brought in to the sea.
We are trying to support the municipalities but some of the legislative reforms would appeal for your support as legislatures so as we can intervene where there are certain issues of lapses. Thank you, Chair.
Mr M S MOLETSANE: Deputy Minister, which long-term strategies does your department has as to resolve or prevent this kind of a loss of water as a permanent solution. Thank you, House Chair.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Our long term
plan is very simple, Chair. We do have our National Water Resource Strategy including the National Water and Sanitation Master Plan. One of the things that we have insisted on is that the philosophy of asset management or the doctrine of asset management whether you deal with the issues of apex whether you deal with the issues of opex is a most important issue that we must deal with. In other words, we must be able
to do investment ahead of the carve when the population growth, when the GDP growth there is going to be pressure on the system but then there must be an issue of adaptation around climate resilience technologies that must be used in infrastructure because if you don’t use climate resilient infrastructure in term of the build environment these challenges of infrastructure are going to continue to persist.
Then there is an issue, secondly, that those who manage our assets, the infrastructure, must be suitable qualify in terms of our standard operating procedures, norms and standard for every infrastructure of a particular size there is a classification system so that people of a particular class or asset those who must operate it, they must operate it well.
Then there is an issue of funding. The issues of funding option, the issue of the user pay principle must always be respected because if we don’t pay for these services, you would not be able to continue to sort the asset but those who are poor the security net around infrastructure must always be provided but there must be a limit so that even those who use free basic water they cannot be in a position to continuously abuse the system.
Lastly, there must be consequence management. In other words, we apply bylaws and regulations. If people waste water, they interfere with the infrastructure concurrent action must be taken but more importantly, even the users of water should be able to do that.
The last point, Chair, is the tariffs. One of the things that is more important about asset management is the water use charges that we are imposing. They must remain comparative by taking into account our socioeconomic conditions in our country, hence our commission that is dealing with water pricing is already in place so that we don’t abuse the system but will never continue with other investment on infrastructure including both in terms of apex and opex. Thank you very much, hon Chair.
Question 221:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Your Excellency
Deputy Chair, fortunately, I was in the province of Limpopo last week doing water engagements. This Lepelle-Nkumpi Municipality under the Capricorn District is not a water services authority but is one of those municipalities where we must improve the issues of governance but also the issues of investment in infrastructure.
We must indicate that in the bulk water supply, 219 boreholes are servicing that Lepelle-Nkumpi Municipality and 175 of them are operational and the others are not operational on the basis that, one, they have not been energised and I have directed that Eskom and our teams must meet and that in all municipalities where there are boreholes they need to be energised so that people can have access to groundwater, especially communities that do not have infrastructure.
There is an issue of vandalism and I had a discussion with this municipality in the water engagement that the security of the infrastructure will be very important in terms of deployment of security but also working with the communities on the general matters of operations and maintenance. We note that the population has increased and as the Department of Water and Sanitation, we are supporting this municipality with our grants, the water services improvement grant.
During this year under review, R72 million has been made available. We are also planning to allocate further
R76 million and R80 million in the financial years 2024-25 and 2025-26 so that we can support and address these particular issues, but in the long term we are answering the question, of where the water will come from for the people of Capricorn.
Currently, there is an Olifants-Ebenezer Water Supply System where we have appointed Lepelle Northern Water. We are increasing the bulk system, including the reservoirs and the treatment plants to more than 90 mega litres but we are also bringing water from Sekhukhune. You know the De Hoop Dam, we are working with the mines so that the water coming from Sekhukhune comes to Capricorn until Waterberg in Mogalakwena and the government has agreed to go 50-50 and the offtake agreements have already been signed, but the Ebenezer Scheme, as I was saying, already funding has been made through the budget facility. Ultimately, the Olifantspoort Water Treatment Works will be upgraded to 120 mega litres so that we can address the growing demand that is being faced by the communities of the Capricorn District where Lepelle-Nkumpi is, including the Greater Sekhukhune because people of Sekhukhune too have a beautiful dam but they don't have access to water.
Ms A D MALEKA: Deputy Chairperson, can you allow me not to switch on my video due to an unstable network?
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: You may continue.
Ms A D MALEKA: Thank you, Deputy Chair.
IsiZulu:
Ngiyabonga mhlonishwa ngempendulo yakho ecacile negculisayo.
English:
Deputy Minister, it is encouraging to see that the department has both a long-term and short-term plan to address the water challenges of the municipality and the district. We also note the nonoperation of some boreholes due to theft and vandalism.
IsiZulu:
Mhlonishwa umbuzo wami uthi, ...
English:
... are there any measures in place to counter the theft and vandalism that are affecting the level of provision of water?
IsiZulu:
Ngiyabonga, ...
English:
... Deputy Chair.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Your Excellency
the Deputy Chair of the NCOP and hon Comrade Maleka, the issue
of criminality and the attack on infrastructure is a serious matter and the government led by His Excellency Comrade President Cyril Ramaphosa, has directed the security infrastructure to tighten our laws, make it a serious schedule in terms of offences to those that are destroying infrastructure because what has happened, we have encouraged people to put security.
In some of these municipalities, the quality of the security is not good. Some of them send people with batons. When some of these people come to vandalise and steal the ferrous and nonferrous equipment, including copper, they are highly armed in terms of high calibre weapons and ammunition. Therefore, we cannot continue as a state to do that. Our options are that the municipalities must start to use technology, in other words, do surveillance using drones. They must also, in the infrastructure, be able to put a key that has a remote sensor in terms of the security strategy, but in some instances, where we put boreholes like tomorrow I will be somewhere in Capricorn handing over some boreholes with Coca Cola South Africa, we have encouraged them that when you do some of these issues, the solar systems, some of them you put in people's homes where they are secured in dealing with some of these issues but our fight against criminals and vandals, we should
be able to work with communities because some of these community members have allowed these criminals to have a haven in their homes and their neighbourhoods.
That is our approach but including the other issues I have said before, the kind of technology that we must use, whether we still have to use copper or if we are going to migrate from copper. What kind of other equipment we can be able to use that can still be in a position to become a conductor of current? Thank you very much, Chairperson.
Mr M A P DE BRUYN: Thank you, hon Deputy Chair, hon Deputy Minister, municipalities across South Africa like Lepelle- Nkumpi are constantly in violation of the Water Services Act, environmental legislation and the Constitution. Deputy Minister, I believe this is a result of the total disregard of authorities at national and provincial departments and the legislation. So, my question, Deputy Minister would be, when will your department enforce consequence management and disciplinary actions against all the municipalities in this regard to ensure sustainable water and sanitation services for the long run? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Your Excellency
Comrade Deputy Chair, hon De Bruyn, Lepelle-Nkumpi as a main question that has been asked, in terms of powers and functions is not a water services authority. That function resides with the district.
We must admit that certain water services authorities have lapses and where they have lapses the Constitution implores us to support them. That's why in many instances we invoke section 154 of the Constitution to provide support in terms of planning, in terms of technical aspects including the deployment of teams working with the Department of Co- operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, CoGTA, and the Municipal Infrastructure Support Agent, Misa,
Then there are the issues of funding, we fund them. Where they are lacking on the issues of capacity, we have strengthened our water boards and our water boards have been placed at the disposal of these municipalities so they too can be in a position that they can be supported. We do continuous monitoring and evaluation and municipal assessment reports. We know where they are ranked ranking in terms of the criteria we have set and that's how we provide support. That is what the Co-operative Governance and Intergovernmental Relations
Framework clause requires us to do. Where there is a failure, we don't hesitate to intervene. That's why in a number of municipalities where there is a section 139, in certain instances, we come in as part of the Water Services Act in terms of section 163.
We are working together with them. We don't have to antagonise local government because if the local government fails, it has the biggest impact on all those citizens who are in that particular locality. Hence our view is that even when they are responsible for reticulation, when they can't do it, we will be there because the citizens’ right to access to water and sanitation can never be denied on the basis of institutional incapacity. Thank you, Chair.
Ms M DLAMINI: Deputy House Chair, I am kindly requesting to keep my camera off.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Continue, please.
Ms M DLAMINI: Deputy Minister, the Lepelle-Nkumpi Local Municipality has for years been plagued with water service challenges as it continues to experience frequent water cut- offs, ageing water taps and water pipes which are being
stolen, and despite promises made to address the problem, residents continue to suffer from a lack of service delivery.
Minister, what has been done or what are the funding mechanisms that have been used to support the strategies in resolving the water crisis? What have been their benefits and what have been their challenges? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Thank you very
much, hon Deputy Chair, Hon Dlamini, I have indicated that in my experience and my deployment on the ground by the organisation of the people, I was there last week, hence I have indicated that the current challenge is because the source of water in that part of the world in the main is groundwater and groundwater for them to be able to extract it they are using boreholes. That is why there are too many boreholes that are there and those boreholes we have said that most of these are functional
We are then saying to ourselves, we must give them guarantees that if their aquifers run dry where will they get water? For Lepelle-Nkumpi and many parts of Capricorn, there is the Olifants-Ebenezer system that is already funded. Remember, they get water from the Flag Boshielo, the Ebenezer including
De Hoop Dam. That money is already there. Lepelle. Northern Water is increasing the capacity of its treatment works to more than 120. Already more than R1,4 billion is being implemented to support all those municipalities, including the City of Polokwane, but you have a place like in Capricorn called Blouberg where you can't draw water from Nandoni Dam, you can't draw water from De Hoop Dam, you can't draw water from the Ebenezer scheme.
Currently, our teams are looking at the transfer from the Zambezi River from that particular confluence because of the relationship we have with Zambia, Botswana and Zimbabwe because it constitutes 44% of that particular district. I have also indicated that under this current year, we are supporting the intervention by the district in Lepelle-Nkumpi by
R72 million so that we can bring water in terms of the water services infrastructure grant. In the next financial year, they will get R76 million. They will also get R80 million.
Therefore, I can assure, hon Dlamini that some work is being done there. Regarding the issues of the vandalism of infrastructure, I've responded very comprehensively on what needs to be done because it is one of the setbacks that we are
experiencing, the attack on our infrastructure. Thank you, Chair
Mr C F B SMIT: Thank you, hon Deputy Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister, as you have mentioned, for the long-term solution water needs to be pumped from the Olifants Water System. So, my question is, the communities around the Flag Boshielo Dam and De Hoop Dam, similar to the Nandoni Dam situation as well are now refusing to allow water to be pumped to other areas like Lepelle-Nkumpi, Mogalakwena and Polokwane due to them staying right next to these dams and not having water as yet from these dams.
How will you overcome this crisis while still also addressing the water shortages in the said areas above, which have been made worse by load shedding and the collapse of the electrical networks due to nonmaintenance? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Your Excellency
Comrade Deputy Chair, the instruction by His Excellency President Ramaphosa, says to us, that nobody must be left behind. There is not going to be a single citizen where the infrastructure is going to pass your village or is going to pass your community and you don't have access to water. At the
very same time, the dams that the apartheid government had built were only meant for agriculture and they were meant for mining, that's why water had to be brought from KwaZulu-Natal, Mpumalanga, had to be brought from Lesotho just to satisfy the mining houses in Gauteng. In Limpopo, I have worked there myself when the ... [Inaudible.] ... was built. For those communities we have agreed with the Olifants Management Centre which is the mines that are there that we are putting out of the R26 billion, our state is going to put up 50%, and the mines are going to put up 50%.
We are working on the bulk treatment from De Hoop Dam and those communities just down there at the dam, you cross the bridge out there into the Nebo Plateau, all those plans in terms of reticulation, building reservoirs until you arrive in Mogalakwena where they will be in a position to benefit. If there was a time we could present the plan, how it looks like.
The very same matter of Nandoni Dam we have raised. I dealt with the problem of those communities personally over the last two years when communities were being paved when the pipes were supposed to move for 49 kilometres from Vhembe to Mopani. For those communities, we have started connecting them with our construction unit, there are key junctions that are there
and the reticulation by the Vhembe District is currently happening. We know that the water has arrived at Nsami Dam and we are building more treatment capacity for the communities of Mopani and Giyani.
Areas like ... [Inaudible.] ... for the first time, are receiving water from the tap. We want to assure you, hon Smit, no South African will be left behind because to give them water is not a ... [Inaudible.] ... is a constitutional injunction and the government of the ANC will never leave its citizens behind. Chair.
Question 223:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Your Excellency
Deputy Chair of the National Council of Provinces, indeed, the department as per the findings of the Auditor-General, AG, incurred an irregular expenditure on the water trading entity on the basis of the two aspects. Firstly, the supply chain management, SCM, processes were not followed to the later.
Secondly, there are entities that we appointed without following the specifications especially that of and in terms of the Construction Industry Development Board, CIDB. Instead of specifying that it should be grade nine in terms of the quantum and in terms of the value, then they put it at grade
eight. Those are the irregularities that we identified as I have said. They are about the contracts and the approved specifications, and a number of those particular companies are there in terms of what we said.
The deviation approved for plant hiring especially for the Giyani project was also considered irregular due to nonadherence of the evaluation criteria. I need to indicate that after we have incurred these irregular expenditures there is an ongoing investigation. Our internal audit has been directed to investigate so that those officials could be brought to book in dealing with these particular issues. I can also assure that the director-general has improved the issues around procurement because procurement in the Department of Water and Sanitation over years was one of the black spot that was smaller than a panacea that became a cancer and made us to be in conflict with the law where the department, the Special Investigating Unit, SIU and the Hawks had to come in because of the failure to tighten procurement. We are very confident that our director-general, DG, and management have put are adequate.
Lastly, there were no fruitless and wasteful expenditure incurred by the department during the period in question. Thank you, Chair.
Mr N M HADEBE: Thank you, hon Deputy Chairperson. Hon Deputy Minister, I have asked this question because if you could remember, in 2018 this very department had boreholes expenditure in the Giyani area where the original budget of R1,3 billon had been exceeded by R1,2 billion just in that area alone and making it almost double the estimated cost.
From the Deputy Minister I would like to know, seeing that there are certain projects under your radar that are far from being completed which contribute largely to the department’s wasteful expenditure, what measures and solutions have you put in place since you assumed office as the Ministry, and which of these measures have been successful thus far? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Your Excellency
Chairperson and Bungani, the matters of the ugly past that you raised initially we are very happy that since we came in we have insisted that there has to be consequence management because we lost a lot of water and citizens of that area in Limpopo were denied access to water. We are correcting that
and even these entities that were involved in the imbursement including maleficence are dealt with decisively.
When we came in, we had to deal with the issue of stability of the organisation. We have appointed a director-general that has a capacity including integrity and he has put those particular systems, Bungani. It does not necessarily mean that you will be able to eliminate irregular expenditure immediately. Therefore, our highest risk was the procurement. The procurement in terms of committees have been reviewed, they have been trained and they are being monitored. It is one of the issues that we have dealt with.
Secondly, there are issues of monitoring around people who are doing claims of the work that has not been done before. Those who are doing the certification of certificates which also the issues of going to the ground. Bungani, we don’t even accept an invoice coming from municipalities without sending people on the ground to check the existence of the progress that is being made. I need to indicate that those ones that belonged to the water trading entity and the construction entity.
Actually, we have strengthened the construction unit in the department in terms of governance and in terms of procurement. There would be consequences for these people who we are saying
that the investigation is underway. We are very happy that for the first time we have recorded no fruitless and no wasteful expenditure. Thank you.
Mr D R RYDER: Deputy Chair, may I take the follow-up question on behalf of the hon Brauteseth as he is not available this afternoon.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Yes, but I did not receive any notice that he won’t be here. He must not begin like the EFF. He must state the person that is ...
Mr D R RYDER: Chairperson, the format for the questions has normally been that the person who is in the House is recognised. This is not like the old sessions which were guided by the Rules. Before we had these new Rules when the names of questioners get identified beforehand it was merely a case of raising our hands and the Rules Books has not been updated since.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: You don’t have to be technical, but you just need to accept what I am saying and convey the message.
Mr D R RYDER: Thank you Deputy Chair that you are accepting what I am saying. Deputy Minister, thank you for your response. Yes, I think it is good news that we haven’t had any fruitless and wasteful expenditure in the department this year. There is, of course, what Mr Hadebe was referring to, the famous War on Leaks of Nomvula Mokonyane where there was fruitless and wasteful expenditure and mind-boggling quantities.
Deputy Minister, the result of the money not being spent on the projects that was supposed to be spent on is that we sit today with the issues that you mentioned earlier on, the nonrevenue water in most municipalities exceeding 50%. Deputy Minister, while there are no fruitless and wasteful expenditure in the current year, what are we doing to get back to the programmes that we have funded in the previous year where the money was spent but the work was not done? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Your Excellency,
Comrade Deputy Chair, I think the hon member is trying to put words in hon Hadebe’s question. He never asked about the War on Leaks. I responded on these issues. But the issue of the
War on Leaks was a very good project, but it was not properly constitutionalised.
In an infrastructure philosophy, before you get people that can try to carry some few tools there and there to fix the leaks, you first have to do conditional assessment of the infrastructure. Most of the infrastructure assets are supposed to be replaced. When they are replaced then you put on all the telemetry, the calibration system, the pressure reducing valves and so forth. When there is a small issue that is happening, then you deploy people with the right tools. But that matter of War on Leaks is a matter that we reported in the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa. It is a matter under investigation. In that particular matter those who were running the operation had certain irregularities and they will be brought to book in dealing with that particular matter.
The issue of nonrevenue water and water leaks were generally in the before questions and I have spoken at length what our plans are, what our experiences are and a number of areas where we are supporting so that we can reduce the country’s average of nonrevenue water - which is hovering around 40% and
to the extreme around 60% or 65% in other cases - to an acceptable international norm. Thank you, Chair.
IsiXhosa:
Nks N TAFENI: Enkosi, Sekela Sihlalo.
English:
Deputy Minister, irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditure continue to be a challenge in government departments headed by the ruling party. The root cause simply being inadequate skills and overall lack of capacity. In light of this, which initiatives were the Minister taking to ensure that accountability and consequences for any irregular and wasteful expenditure experienced in this department?
IsiXhosa:
Ndiyamva uSekela Mphathiswa ukuba uthi ...
English:
... there was no wasteful and fruitless expenditure.
IsiXhosa:
Ndicela acacise apha ukuba ...
English:
... those wasteful and fruitless expenditure ...
IsiXhosa:
... esiyibona iqhubeka, ingaba bona bayijonge ngeliphi iliso? Enkosi, Sekela Sihlalo.
English:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Your Excellency
Deputy Chair, hon Tafeni is making a mistake and omission. The records from the Auditor-General has indicated that the Department of Water and Sanitation on the question and the period under review, there was no wasteful and fruitless expenditure. On the other matter of irregular expenditure there is a very clear decision. Irregular does not mean that someone has stolen, but it means that the legislated processes, either in laws or in policies, have not been adhered to. And in this case, we know that there were deviations that were made and also the issues of adherence to the criteria for evaluation. We are very clear how it happened. It is because of a deviation in laws. Someone must be held accountable. Due processes are being followed and investigated by our internal audit including the forensic component. We will allow these investigations to take its
course and ultimately, on the basis of the investigative report, decisions will be made. In the past outside this question there has been consequence management. Officials in the Department of Water and Sanitation have been brought to book and they have been dismissed. Some of them where it bordered on criminality, matters have been referred to the SA Police Service. The Hawks are working on those particular matters.
But we must admit that this department from being insolvent, from being a department that is always defaulting around following laws and processes, we did come to you and said in the select committee that this is our turnaround plan in terms of our finances and in terms of the capacity. I can confirm, as I stand here Chair, that we have capable men and women in the Department of Water and Sanitation who are highly qualified and prepared to change the course of history and deliver on our mandate and not to leave any South African behind in ensuring that they do have water and decent sanitation including the benefits thereof. Thank you, Chair.
Ms B M BARTLETT: Thank you, Deputy Chairperson. Thank you, Deputy Minister for the response. Will there be any consequences for those responsible for the fruitless and
wasteful expenditure at the end of the investigation process? I thank you. Chairperson, I apologise I have network problem that’s why I cannot switch off my video.
Mr K MOTSAMAI. You must come to Parliament.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Bartlet, you may continue as we hear you. Hon Motsamai, please, allow the hon Bartlett.
Ms B M BARTLETT: [Inaudible.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Now we cannot hear you because of your network issues.
Ms B M BARTLETT: Thank you, hon Chairperson. Am I audible now?
Mr K MOTSAMAI. You must come to Parliament.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: You are not audible. We don’t hear you. Just stabilise your network.
Ms B M BARTLETT: Thank you, hon Deputy Chairperson. Thank you, hon Deputy Minister, for your response. Will there be any
consequences for those who were responsible for the fruitless
... [Inaudible.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you. Hon Deputy Minister, I am sure you heard what she was asking.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Thank you very
much, Your Excellency. I heard Comrade Bartlet. I can assure Comrade Bartlet that we will act. Hon Bartlet, please, be assured that we are going to act decisively without any fear, favour or contradiction where mishaps have happened. It is the right thing to do.
Secondly, there is also a requirement that we will never get the regularisation of irregular expenditure by the National Treasury and yourselves if we don’t demonstrate that we took action. It is our view and the servant determination that we are going to clean all the irregular expenditure in our department, whether historic or current.
But as I was saying in the beginning there is a light at the end of the tunnel because for the first time there is no declaration of fruitless and wasteful expenditure. The answer is a definite yes. Thank you, Chair.
Question 229:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Deputy
Chairperson, in response to the question asked by the hon Smit, as we are all aware that at a particular point in the department, there was a stoppage, no release of the Blue Drop, Green Drop and No Drop Reports around 2014. And as a Ministry, we have reinstated this instrument. It is an important instrument because it gives us an opportunity to compare ourselves internationally with all our peers. It allows us an opportunity to also look at the weaknesses of our performance and say what do we do to improve? But at the very same time, it gives us the ability to give incentives and more importantly, it gives the citizens of our country whether to have confidence in our ability to manage water and sanitation. Sometimes, when we release these reports like we did last year and this year, there are people who are just creating an impression as if it’s a shock and it is their own findings.
These are our own results.
Chairperson, our own results have indicated that a number of municipalities are struggling with their own wastewater treatment works. Some of them have scored below 30% in terms of operational efficiency. Hence you could see the sewers running in the streets, and you could see pollution causing
more problems. In the municipalities in total in our country whose wastewater treatment works scored below 30%. The total is 334, Chairperson. But the actual number of wastewater treatment works in our country that are recorded with us as the Department of Water and Sanitation, there are 850 of them.
To be in a position to rehabilitate them, and bring them to functionality, in total, the municipalities have to spend about R2,8 billion just to bring these wastewater treatment works into functionality. But from one municipality to the other, the situation varies in terms of the degree. But the major sewage treatment works, in KwaZulu-Natal 147 and 20 are below that, in the Western Cape they are 158 and 18 of them are not performing well. In Eastern Cape it’s 123 and 48, of those there are quite a few treatment plants that are operating and I am not going to go through each province, but that’s the totality.
Chairperson, we have agreed with the Department of Co- operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, that these municipalities need to be assisted, first of all, to increase the capacity in terms of the structure, because most of these wastewater treatment plants have had an increase in population, the capacity of the plant has not been increased.
Whether it is in Tshwane, where the Rooi Vaal takes more than 60% of the waste generated here, or in Emfuleni and elsewhere, that is the most important aspect we ask of them. But then we must improve their pump stations, we must improve their treatment works so that when they discharge the water they have effluent back into the system, they are in a position to discharge an effluent that is acceptable in terms of the license condition.
On the last point on the wastewater treatment works, we say that on the wastewater we can do a circular economy where we recycle the waste, like in Maritzburg, one of the plants that the President visited to open, we recycle the waste, we treat it so that you can drink the water from that particular component. We will produce electricity with a capacity of 1 megawatt, but at the same time, we will produce fertilisers. Other organisations will also use the effluent for their own production either for irrigation etc. Other mines also use effluent water so that at least in a circular economy there is no water that goes to waste. Thank you, Chair.
Mr C F B SMIT: Deputy Chair, the last statement by the Deputy Minister is quite ironic because he just earlier said it is acceptable to lose more than R1 billion worth of water by
water boards. Deputy Minister, the communities in these municipalities that these dysfunctional sewage plants are not working, their dignity has been taken away and have their constitutional rights in terms of sections 24 and 27 of the Bill of Rights in Chapter 2, stamped on with no disregard by the ANC-led government.
South Africans have had enough of your excuses and so-called plans because the whole time we hear about fancy plans and fancy implementation of reports and whatever the case may be. South Africans want to know here and now what have you done to date and what are you doing to fix your mess and hold people accountable who are responsible for this.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Smit, sometimes the choice of words that we use is not really acceptable when we are speaking here. I am just warning you and I don’t want to be responded to. We can ask questions without going too low. Hon Deputy Minister, you may respond. Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: It is not
honourable to distort issues. If hon Smit does not appreciate the water philosophy in terms of integrated water resource management, you don’t appreciate the source, the bulk system,
and the distribution is not my problem. In terms of the operational efficiency of the bulk system, on the question that I have responded to, it meets the international norm. Unless the hon member has the data that he could put on the table and demonstrate that it is not a fact.
But the other problem is more about the value chain of water. Blaming the ANC is like throwing stones while living in a glass house. The town of Tshwane, where I live, has contaminated Hammanskraal and Rooi Vaal residents for the first time in the last seven to eight years, and citizens have died because the sewage treatment plants do not meet the standards wherein the South African Human Rights Commission.
The Public Protector has done an investigation and the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, CSIR, and in their own admission they have failed to ensure that the environment in which our people live is not harmful. They have done that.
He lives in Cape Town, I counted here. More than 18 sewage treatment plants are operating below the optimal capacity of 30%, and the sins of the citizens who live in Cape Town are that it is a city of two nations, a city of one race, and a city of a majority, where the majority of our people are forced to inhale, and our children play in the sewers in the
townships. Therefore, hon Smit, don’t play politics when it comes to water because it knows no ideology, it knows no boundaries. Our commitment remains whether the municipality is led by the ANC of the DA or any other party, the government led by President Ramaphosa will support all our water agencies because our citizens deserve better. That is why we are helping in Tshwane, that is why we are helping in the Western Cape and elsewhere. The ANC has never claimed to be a saint.
But we should not downplay the conditions in which our people live. Now that the assessment has been done, there is a turnaround plan jointly by Cogta and the South African Local Government Association, Salga. We shall support municipalities because we will not play games with the lives of our citizens. Thank you, Deputy Chair.
Mr M J MAGWALA: Hon Deputy Chairperson ...
IsiXhosa:
Kunjani mama?
English:
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I am fine. Long time and nice to see you again.
Mr M J MAGWALA: Greetings to the hon Deputy Minister. Before I ask my question, there is a saying that says “Water is life sanitation is dignity.” Whether the Deputy Minister agrees that these dysfunctional sewer systems are a sign of a department that is lacking in capacity and unable to fulfil its primary duty to deliver equitable service delivery to its people? And it is also an indication of a government which does not take care of black people living in townships. Short and sweet. Thank you, Deputy Chair.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Hon fighter
Magwala, we are mistaken in terms of roles and responsibilities. The statement that says that the department doesn’t care, it has no capacity to fix wastewater treatment works is further from the truth because all the wastewater treatment works don’t belong to the Department of Water and Sanitation. In terms of the laws of our land, these are the assets that belong to the Water Services Authority and other public entities. But our responsibility is to do an assessment and ensure that they meet the licence conditions. One of the matters that we have seen in our own assessment is that most of these municipalities their wastewater treatment works, have never been in a position to invest in terms of the building of capacity to meet the demands in terms of the new growth. If
you look for an example, 12 years ago our population was 52 million and today the population is 62 million and a number of these municipalities, irrespective of which party leads these municipalities neglected to increase the wastewater treatment works in terms of the modules. The second component is operations and maintenance, even if you can have a Rolls Royce of wastewater treatment works like the Northern Works of Johannesburg that treats more than 410 mega litres of effluent, if you don’t do operation and maintenance well, and you don’t have the necessary capacity, you are going to have problems.
But I can assure you can point a finger at the ANC, the ANC is addressing the problems. That is why the example of Emfuleni, where most of those streets and those houses we have cleaned sewer and it is because we care. The fact that we are going to be sending Umgeni Water to support the City of eThekwini to ensure that their wastewater treatment works are attended to is an ANC government at work. The fact of the matter is that Rooi Vaal in Tshwane is not working and Tshwane has no money, we are supporting them with the Development Bank of Southern Africa, DBSA, and we are funding them so that we can fix Rooi Vaal so that the people of Hammanskraal their dignity should not be trampled for it.
We do admit there are shortfalls, but let’s not deny the truth that the ANC and this Ministry are hard at work. We are on the ground, covering the corner to corner of our country.
AN HON MEMBER: Kubo!
IsiXhosa:
Mnu M J MAGWALA: Usuya campaigner ngoku, Mphathiswa.
IsiZulu:
USEKELA NGQONGQOSHE WEZAMANZI NOKUHANJISWA KWENDLE: Ngiyaqhuba
fighter.
English:
I’m done, Chairperson.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you, hon Deputy Minister I’m sorry. The next question will be from hon De Bruyn.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Deputy Minister,
without paying politics, I think we can agree that the number of dysfunctional sewage treatment plants and systems across South Africa is shocking and shameful, to say the least, and
surely with the numbers and the stats provided by the Blue Drop and Green Drop Reports and by yourself today, your department must have launched several investigations to identify the personnel officials and organisations that are responsible for the total collapse of the country’s sewerage systems and treatment works.
Deputy Minister, how many councillors, city managers, MECs and officials have been investigated, prosecuted and terminated as a result of incompetence that caused the collapse of our sewer works in South Africa?
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Deputy Minister, if you don’t have the information, you know what to do.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Deputy
Chairperson, I don’t have the numbers here around the issues of enforcement and compliance. But we can give the hon member. I am happy that, hon De Bruyn, your positive attitude is that let’s not politicise the matter. One of the things that we do as a Ministry, we act without any favour or prejudice. For example, I know that there are a number of municipalities even in my own province in Mpumalanga, in a municipality led by the ANC I personally went to open a case against a mayor of a
municipality in Mpumalanga and a number of municipalities in Mpumalanga are run by the ANC. There are court judgments that have been made against the mayors and MMCs on the basis of their failure to comply. And even here in Gauteng and elsewhere we are doing it. But we can be in a position to deal with those figures. The issue is that anyone who pollutes must stop pollution. If they persist, the polluter will pay and we will prosecute them, but remedial action will be taken. Like we are doing with the Integrated Vaal River System, we are working with Save the Vaal and other nongovernmental organisations, NGOs.
Right now we have directed Rand Water to say what we do to deal with the issues of rehabilitation. But municipalities must be helped to increase the capacity of infrastructure against the population growth around issues of climate change and the other dynamics that we are facing the Economic Report of the President, ERP, that the President presented to the Joint Houses of Parliament is a response that infrastructure remains a priority and an apex in terms of our own investment, whether it’s electricity, water, transport, you can name them. Thank you very much, Chairperson.
Mr E M MTHETHWA: Deputy Chairperson and colleagues, good afternoon. Deputy Minister, I heard your plan and everything that you are dealing with in terms of this programme. My question is, what is your long-term plan to assist these municipalities in addressing all these problems? Can you please present your long-term plan to us? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Deputy Chair, one
of the immediate issues that we must deal with now is to bring the functionality of those wastewater treatment works that are not working well. Secondly, our population has grown and now we must be able to actually address the backlog of these wastewater treatment systems, that if we don’t increase their capacity, it will impact on development, it will impact on investment. But because there is a problem with these municipalities they don’t have sufficient revenue. Our view going forward is to link infrastructure development with revenue enhancement. That’s why when we make the example of Maritzburg, where you build the biggest wastewater treatment plant, when you build it, what you do, is you reuse the water. In other words, you don’t actually all the time go and abstract raw water, that is expensive. You make it a circular economy, you treat it to be in a standard that people can drink the water again. But we must work on the issue of
getting our citizens to know that reused water is still quality water, that’s one component.
The other component when you reuse the water is the other sectors of our economy that need effluent water. An example is Ivanplats Platreef Mine in Limpopo in Mokopane, where they said give us effluent, our operation for chrome needs effluent produce more. In other words, do more human settlements, and produce more sewer. Then they buy that particular water. That is what you use the water for to get revenue. For agriculture and other things, you also get that particular wastewater.
They do irrigation for issues of food security. But then you also take the slide, which is solute you then actually work on the slide after you have done the dewatering, and you produce manure so that the manure can become a solution to the issue of the fertiliser.
Right now there is a war between Russia and Ukraine, we are running out of fertilisers. We should be producing our own fertilisers in our own country. But because of that organic material that you find in the plants in wastewater treatment plants, you can convert the slide into a methane gas, and you can sell the gas in terms of those water gas bottles, but you can also put it into the grid. Therefore, our solution is
issues of a circular economy where you look at the infrastructure, waste management and energy generation and stimulate the other economies that are around. If we can do it here in Johannesburg, they produce 410 million litres of sewer a day that normally goes to Hartebeeskop down to the people of North West that is partially treated. Those are the things that we are going to do. Because in our wastewater treatment plants in future, you must go there and be able to eat your meal without feeling the smell. Because it is operating properly.
IsiZulu:
Ngiyathokoza Nyambose.
Question 222:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Your Excellency
comrade Deputy Chair and comrade Dangor, I know that our thoughts and prayers today are with the people of Palestine as we have served our country well in that part of the world. The issue of the Temba Treatment Plant and the issue of the Rooiwal Wastewater Treatment Plant hon Dango - we were very happy when we met with the National Council of Provinces team led by yourself and Ma’am Ngwenya. Now that the relationship
between us and the City of Tshwane under Mayor Brink has improved, we don't play politics.
There is an agreement that Development Bank South Africa, DBSA will become our implementing agent. When they became our implementing agent, we had already set money aside. About
R480 million was set aside by us from our own budget to support. The city has also put R150 million. Therefore, the issue of fixing Rooiwal after certain people messed up the plant is already underway and we're hopeful that the different phases will be done so that this water that continuously comes to the plant, does not go through the Apies River, it can't go to Nooitgedacht Dam then to the Temba plant where these people of Hammanskraal are being told that you have water but the water is not safe to drink, use it for something else.
In the short term, we've made the decision that Magalies Water must come on board. Magalies Water is coming on board because there's Klipdrift where we can put a packaged plant and that packaged plant would treat the water. We then do the retrofitting into the Temba system. Once the retrofitting is done, we should be able to conclude.
We have now directed that Magalies must do it, we are just waiting on the National Treasury to agree that the
R480 million that was given to Magalies must be utilised to deal with these particular issues. As I've said, we are looking at the acceleration plan, working with the City of Tshwane, including the province around the issue of the wastewater treatment works.
But at the very same time, we must ensure that these communities that don’t have safe drinking water from taps, the interim measures of cutting - that water is of good quality; there is no exploitation by the tankering people colluding with the officials of the state and people don't receive water and millions and millions of rands are being used to feed those particular individuals or business people.
We have advised Tshwane and other municipalities across the country, buy your own water tankers so that we can remove the third party and we can remove the issue of wherein officials work with private sector to vandalise infrastructure that impacts on the valves. But it also has an implication that municipalities provide water without getting revenue. Thank you very much your Excellency.
Mr M DANGOR: Thank you very much for the response, Minister. And you've answered some of my questions by other questions and other questions being asked. However, can you expand upon what is being done between the date of commencement for the conclusion of the plant and how are we providing healthy water at this point in time between now and the commencement date to the residents of Hammanskraal?
Further Minister, can you please share with us the reasons why the local authority is reluctant to request that Rand Water extends the pipeline that presently supplies parts of Hammanskraal and other surrounding areas to Hammanskraal?
Further, are you aware that the local authority has reacted to the various investigations conducted by the Human Rights Commission and other organs of state? Thank you, Minister. I will also ask the next question on behalf of the hon Motsamai.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Hon Dangor, in
the meantime, as I've said, the interim measure to support those communities is to ensure that the integrity where the water is being obstructed is of good quality. We can't compromise in terms of the quality of water. The two systems of Rand Water and Magalies are good systems with no problems.
The cooperation of the municipality in terms of ensuring that their tankering is happening well and that there's an oversight is a good thing, and we are happy with that particular attitude.
But we must also admit that there are simmering tensions. There's been tension between the City of Tshwane and Rand Water, but also politicisation because another political party decided that they are going to make water a political issue while they themselves are responsible for this. Hence, I was asked by Minister Mchunu to chair a meeting between Tshwane, Rand Water, and the province to coordinate their efforts to stop quibbling while our people are suffering. And I must admit, I've got a lot of cooperation from both parties but at same time, there have been incidents where there are certain points scoring politically, but we are managing that space.
There's been some reluctance that I don't understand why when an institution of more than 120 years in the stock exchange and is the biggest in the continent, is not allowed to support but at the very same time as national government, our hands are tied. We can't impose a water service provider or a contractor to this. That's why we agreed on the question of DBSA.
Regarding the issues of investigations, we are very pleased that ultimately His Excellency, the President, has agreed that more than R200 million that was meant for Rooiwal is being investigated by the Special Investigating Unit, SIU and the proclamation has been gazetted and other matters that are related to it.
We must admit that in the past, the SA Human Rights Commission, which is an important component in our constitutional democracy, did an assessment, produced a report but some components within the city dismissed that report and refused when they say we must intervene, even went to court.
But I must admit that the current mayor is different from those other previous mayors who were disingenuous and not agreeing to attend to the problem then.
Last week, we had a meeting with the Acting Public Protector of the Republic of South Africa, they too have done an intensive investigation and made findings against the municipality. Now that findings have been made, we've agreed that we will stay closer and we're hopeful that all parties that are involved in the interest of our people and the people of this capital city of our country - we will never politicise the matters, get down to work, provide water, but ensure that
all wastewater systems of Tshwane that are polluting our rivers beyond Rooiwal in Apies are all fixed, like we shall do elsewhere in our land. Thank you.
Mr K MOTSAMAI: Chair, I asked a question.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Chair, you can
remind me the question so that I can answer. I have been answering too many questions Mr Motsamai.
Mr K MOTSAMAI: It was a question about Hammanskraal. You have answered me.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Thank you.
Mr N M HADEBE: Hon Deputy Minister, I would like to know, what agreement has been reached in terms of time frame, water quality standards and maintenance schedule for the next ten years in order to address the needs of Temba Water Treatment Works? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Hon Chairperson,
I need to indicate to the hon member Bhungane that I don't have the time frames here. I only know what must be done in
the short-term, in the medium-term and in the long-term, without the terms of the years because I never carry that data, but we can provide.
Hon member, in the short-term, Bhungane, is that in the meantime, while there's an infrastructure fail, citizens must get water without fail. The short-term says that the only solution is water cutting. The water cutting that is happening there to is to ensure that there is quality water. A determination was made that we must use the sources where we abstract the water on credible sources. That's why we went for the source for Rand Water, we went for the source of Magalies, they all meet the criteria in terms of SA National Standard
241 drinking water, we are very confident.
But then there's an issue of handling. How do you handle the cutting? When the water comes into the cut, there are people who inspect them, ensure that there's nothing in those particular containers and tanks, and samples are also done on an ongoing basis.
Then there's an issue of monitoring the frequency. You know
...
IsiZulu:
... abantu bamathenda abanye babo bangathi bathwale amaloli amathathu kanti bathwale elilodwa ... akalithwalanga.
English:
... those are some of the things. But then there is an issue of security that they are providing which is the short-term. But in the medium-term Bhungane, the issue of getting water from Klipdrift is already giving Tshwane 10 megalitres. We wanted to improve that one to give them 40 megalitres which is
40 million litres a day.
That's why ...
IsiZulu:
... si thathe iMagalies Water ...
... that used to work on that side because Klipdrift is operated by Magalies Water. For them to put a treatment plant, they needed to have money and we made money ourselves, which is R480 million, so they can do that. We are just waiting for concurrence from the National Treasury.
But immediately they started treating the water because it's a short-term thing, the designs are complete, they can go to procurement at any stage. Then they can do retrofitting in the existing system. You cut water the contaminated water that comes from Temba, you scour the system, you clean it, then they can start getting clean water from the system.
When they get the water that is clean Bhungane, they can start billing people. They can bill people because that water is consumable. But in the meantime, the source and the epicentre of the problem - the wastewater treatment plant has phases - is to fix the Rooiwal, increase its capacity and it's going to take us close to five years and it will need more than
R2 billion just to do that particular work.
But a startup capital of R150 billion has been made available by the municipality. Because there's DBSA, DBSA has a capacity for project management but is also a bank, it can also allow us to look at funding options because that R2 billion to completely overhaul the entire system is not available. We must go to the markets.
IsiZulu:
Ngiyathokoza, Bhungane.
English:
Thank you very much.
IsiZulu:
... Mtimande.
Mnu M R BARA: Masibonge, Mama ...
English:
Deputy Minister, thank you for your responses. I think you might have touched on what I am going to ask. Deputy Minister, the problem in Rooiwal is a long time coming. Rooiwal was already identified in 2004 by the city's water master plan, which was followed by a warning issued in 2008 and then an environmental conservation notice, in 2011.
The problem has become too big and too expensive for the municipality to handle without assistance. Now my question Deputy Minister is, whose responsibility is the package plan that is part of the agreement and what is the progress of that project to date? Thank you, Deputy Minister. Thank you, House Chairperson.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Your Excellency,
comrade Chair, hon Bara, you are absolutely correct. The problem is a long-term problem. But then there is something that we call it - when you take over power, you inherit assets and liabilities. That's why when we took over power in 1994, we also did the same.
IsiZulu:
Manje laba bantu abakhona laphaya, laba bahlobo bakho, mhlonishwa u-Bara kumele babhekane naleyo nkinga. Kodwa namuhla siyabambisana nabo. Manje asikwazi ukucasha ngesithupha ngale ndaba le. Lezo zithunywa zenkantolo eziphethe sizozilekelela ekuxazululeni le nkinga le.
English:
That is our commitment.
IsiZulu:
Uma siqeda ukwenza le-package plant le ezobe ingu-40 mega litres ...
English:
... we can assure you that we're going to transfer the asset to the municipality. It will be owned by the municipality because it belongs to those particular people.
As I was saying under support plans around other wastewater treatment works, issues of funding, there is a clear agreement between the Minister and the mayor. They are working well together. It's our commitment.
You know, it is an embarrassment for any nation where there can be a collapse of capital, irrespective of who runs the capital, we're going to get the capital to work. Because it's our face, it's our pride and it’s our heritage. Thank you very much, Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon members, we have come to the end of the questions to the Minister of Water and Sanitation. I would like to thank the Deputy Minister for being available to answer questions. I also wish to thank permanent delegates, MECs, all special delegates and Salga representatives for availing themselves for the sitting. Hon members, that concludes the business of the day. The House is adjourned. Thank you.
The Council rose at 16:14.
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