Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 19 Sep 2023
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
TUESDAY, 19 SEPTEMBER 2023
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Watch here: Plenary
The House met at 14:00.
The House Chairperson (Ms M G Boroto) took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
CONSIDERATION OF CANDIDATE NOMINATED TO FILL A VACANCY IN ELECTORAL COMMISSION
Mr M S CHABANE: House Chair, Deputy President hon members, the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs, having considered the request to the NA by the Chief Justice of the Republic of South Africa, Chief Justice Zondo to nominate a suitable candidate to fill a vacancy in the Independent Electoral Commission, IEC, shortlisted and conducted interviews by a panel established in terms of section 6(3) of the Electoral Commissions Act No 51 of 1996. The panel was chaired by the Chief Justice, with other Members of Parliament, the
Chairperson of the SA Human Rights Commission, the Chairperson of the Commission for Gender Equality and the Public Protector.
Out of 70 applicants received, the panel shortlisted, shortlisted 12 for interviews and subsequently the Chief Justice submitted a shortlist of eight candidates and their CVs to the Speaker for consideration to fill the vacancy in the Independent Electoral Commission in no particular order of preference. Ms J Love, Advocate Jozi, Ms B Zulu, Ms S Mthembu, Dr Dintwe, Mr Mtimde, Ms Guardian and Ms Mabuza. The recommendations were referred to the portfolio committee on 27 July 2023 by the Speaker for consideration and report. On 12 September 2022 the committee deliberated on the recommended candidates informed by their interviews during the panel of the Chief Justice and the experience in the field of work and resolved to recommend the name of Miss Janet Love for appointment as Commissioner of the IEC.
The committee considered continuity in that Commissioner Love has served in the IEC and she was a deputy chairperson at some point. The committee also considered her academic qualifications as well as her experience in the public service. The committee also took into consideration our national agenda of building a nonracial, nonsexist society, that which will be reflected in the appointment of commissioner.
In this regard, we present the report to the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs and recommend that this House approve for the appointment of Commissioner Love to serve as a commissioner for the Independent Electoral Commission. I thank you.
Declarations of vote:
Mr A C ROOS: House Chair, in 2022 a conference on Safeguarding Election Management Bodies in the Age of Global Democratic Recession reported that:
A number of emerging democracies, including South Africa, and long-standing democracies, including the USA, have been in a steep decline in the quality of democracy.
The IEC report on the 2021 Local Government Elections to the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs on 20 May 2022 did not even mention voter management device failures as a challenge faced in the election. Our failures in these systems resulted in around 140 000 voters who had changed their registration finding that, in fact, not been changed and being unable to vote on election day. So, it is staggering that this was not even noted as a challenge.
Furthermore, the DA received complaints from over 150 voting stations on election day where the voter management device failed, causing long queues and leading voters to leave queues in frustration, denying them their democratic rights. The ANC admitted that they first tested these devices on registration weekend, despite insisting before the elections that these devices have been tested and a back-up process was in place.
There was the reopening of the registration for new candidates after the closing date and after the governing ANC stood to lose out on contesting 93 municipalities. This followed the washable in debacle in the 2019 National and Provincial Elections as the latest in a series of events threatening the credibility of our elections.
President Ramaphosa was rightly criticised after congratulating the Zimbabwean government for organising and holding, “harmonised elections”. We cannot allow that to be our standard. The DA supports the candidature of Miss Janet Yetta Love as the most experienced and capable candidate, serving as IEC commissioner since 2016, Vice Chairperson of
the IEC since 2018 and making solid contributions in her role. The DA wishes Miss Love well and will step up its oversight role to hold the IEC to account to ensure free and fair elections. Thank you, House Chair.
Mr T MOGALE: House Chairperson, the EFF chose to abstain from supporting any of the candidates that were presented to the committee. Our position is informed by a number of concerns we have with the IEC which we have consistently raised on various platforms. The IEC is tasked with, among other issues, to compile and maintain the voter’s roll and promote voter education in South Africa. South Africa has over 40 million people who are eligible to vote, but out of this only
26 million are registered to vote, which means close to
15 million South Africans who are of voting age are not registered to vote.
The IEC has failed to reach out to these 15 million eligible voters and get them to register to vote. Majority of them are young people between the ages of 17 and 34 years, and they account for over 54% of people who are eligible to vote but are not registered to vote. We are firmly opposed to the use of Sadtu affiliated members as presiding officers in our voting stations. As such, people have openly declared that
they have taken the side of the ruling party. Their continued employment as presiding officers, particularly in the upcoming highly contested elections, has the potential to discredit the supposedly independence of the IEC from political meddling.
Some of these Sadtu deployees are poorly trained and always provide conflicting interpretations to legislation at voting stations which end up confusing ordinary voters.
We call for the employment of millions and thousands of unemployed youth to serve as presiding officers in our elections. This will not only provide them with an income, but also with skills. As we approach what is likely going to be the most highly contested elections since 1994, which will see the ruling party lose elections for the first time in 30 years, the independence and credibility of the IEC will be very critical. We have seen what happens in some African countries and in other parts of the world when the body charged with managing elections is staffed with conflicted individuals who are surrogates of the ruling party, deployed to manipulate internal processes for the sake of protecting the ruling party.
We are concerned by the recent austerity measures which government has announced and what their impact may be on the
ability of the IEC to execute its duties ahead of the 2024 elections. We call for more funding for the IEC to conduct voter awareness campaign, get more young people registered to vote and to be able to contract free and fair elections. Thank you.
Ms M D HLENGWA: Hon Chair, the IFP supports and welcomes the recommendations to reappoint Miss Janet Love to the IEC. Since Miss Love joined the IEC as a part-time commissioner in 2016, and then as a full-time Vice Chairperson in 2018, she has shown herself to be competent, passionate and professional, amongst others. Prior to joining the IEC Miss Love served as a part-time member of SA Human Rights Commission and was a member of the Convention for a Democratic South Africa, Codesa management team. She also served as a national director of the Legal Resource Centre. These roles not only provided her with a solid foundation in working in the Fourth Administration and Chapter 9 institutions, but also speak of her deep commitment to our constitutional democracy and our Bill of Rights.
The 2024 General Elections will potentially prove to be the most contested and the most challenging in our history. This is due to challenges of legislation and the fact that there might be widespread. The IFP support.
Xitsonga:
Mutshamaxitulu wa Yindlu (Man M G Boroto): Tatana Bilankulu
...
IsiNdebele:
... siyakubawa, akhe uyicime.
Afrikaans:
Mnr F J MULDER: Agb Huisvoorsitter, Suid-Afrikaners het hul vertroue in die Suid-Afrikaanse politiek en politieke bedeling verloor. Die lae stempatrone kan landswyd in die afgelope 2019 landswye verkiesing en ook met die plaaslike owerheidsverkiesing van 2021 gesien word.
Dit is ons taak as openbare ampsbekleërs, om hierdie vertroue van die kieserspubliek te herstel. En dit is soveel belangriker dat die Onafhanklike Verkiesingskommissie as ’n geloofwaardige instellings sal bly voortbestaan.
Volgende jaar in die 2024 algemene verkiesing vind daar ’n waterskeidingsverkiesing plaas en speel die OVK of die Onafhanklike Verkiesingskommissie, die sentrale rol. Die aanstelling van mev Janet Love as kommissaris van die Kommissie word deur die VF Plus ondersteun. Dankie.
Mr M W THRING: House Chair, the ACDP supports the report. Thank you.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: House Chairperson, the National Freedom Party notes the recommendation of Ms Janet Yetta Love for the appointment to fill a vacancy in the Independent Electoral Commission, IEC. We also note that the portfolio committee has deliberated and identified Ms Janet Yetta Love as the ideal candidate given the fact that she’s been a civil servant, an activist and a former politician, who has served as the Vice- Chairperson of the Electoral Commission of South Africa since 2018, clearly indicating that she has the necessary capacity expertise, and of course, the integrity to hold such office.
Before the appointment to the Electoral Commission, she was a part-time SA Human Rights Commission.
She was also ... [Inaudible.] ... during apartheid. Ms Love was a member of uMkhonto weSizwe ... [Inaudible.] ... should not be part and parcel of the recommendation that we’re making. Having considered that she is a suitable candidate by virtue of her expertise, her skills ... [Inaudible.] ... the fact that she’s got ... [Inaudible.] ... in this particular field. The National Freedom Party is of the opinion that she is the ideal candidate. However, we want to stress that the
IEC must at some stage put together a conflict resolution committee to deal with political party’s infighting which is costing millions of taxpayers’ money. Therefore, in this way, I think we might be able to identify timeously and solve the problems that exist in political parties. The NFP will support this. Thank you.
Mr S M JAFTA: The AIC, House Chairperson. House Chairperson, as the African Independent Congress, we support the endorsement of the candidature of Ms Love who joined the Electoral Commission as part-time Commissioner in April 2016, and then as Vice-Chairperson in 2018. Her independence and qualifications are unquestionable. Her love had various things with the SA Reserve Bank, the Legal Resource Centre and the Human Rights Commission. We have no doubt that she will be part of cohort of independent minded commissioners who will deliver free and fair elections in 2024. We trust her impartiality. We must never take for granted the fairness of any election’s outcomes, especially given the history of our country. Ms Love understands the role of the IEC in our democracy and will carry her role with integrity. We support her candidature. Thank you, House Chairperson.
Mr T LOATE: House Chair, we support the recommendation of Ms Love as the suitable candidate.
Mr M NYHONTSO: Hon House Chair, the PAC supports the report. Thank you, House Chair.
Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chair, I spent a week with Ms Love on the visit to Namibia to look at better ways regarding our elections. Therefore, we looked at devices and I was very impressed the way she engaged with the lawmakers there to show that she’s open to next generation opportunities and interventions for free and fair elections. Therefore, Al Jama- ah will certainly support the nomination and the report, and we thank the Chairman for the report. However, we are still concerned that if you look at the mix of commissioners, there seems to be a gap when it comes to those who have a lot of experience with the youth, as you know that the young people don’t want to register as voters.
Secondly, information technology, IT, knowledge and security knowledge seems to be a gap, because the governing party and the official opposition still know how to outsmart the IEC to manipulate the results. You just speak to Bantu Holomisa, and he will tell you what they do. Therefore, obviously, we also
feel that one needs to look at something better than just men who are voting. Al Jama-ah supports the report and wishes Ms Love everything of the best in her new term.
Ms M A MOLEKWA: House Chairperson, the ANC supports the nomination of Ms Janet Yetta Love to serve as a Commissioner of the Independent Electoral Commission following the process undertook by the Chief Justice in terms of section 6 of the Electoral Commission Act 51 of 1996. In this regard, we join the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs to commend the important work done by the Office of the Chief Justice in setting up a panel, shortlisting the nominated candidates and making recommendation on suitable individual to be considered for the position of Commissioner of the IEC. Commissioner Love brings a strong academic qualification that include a bachelor’s degree in political science and industrial psychology, a master’s degree in public finance management from the University of London, and a number of postgraduate diplomas from best universities.
Commissioner Janet Love brings a well-experience in public service. Before she serves as a member of the National Assembly, Commissioner Love served the country in various capacities, including being part of the Convention for a
Democratic South Africa, Codesa, negotiations, also being a member of the Constitutional Assembly that gave birth to our Constitution today. Commissioner Love has ... [Inaudible.] ... of co-operative experience as she’s currently serving in various boards, including being a Chairperson of the University of KwaZulu-Natal Health, Economic and human immunodeficiency virus, HIV, and acquired immunodeficiency syndrome, Aids, Research Division, and of a member of the Board of Central Energy Fund, CEF, Africa Audit, among others.
As currently, a Commissioner of IEC, we believe that the IEC requires continuity, that an individual success Ms Janet Love possess and experience to serve in this important Chapter 9 institution that is responsible for ensuring the organisation and running incredible free and fair election. Commissioner Love is a woman who contributed to the liberation of the people. She was part of laying our constitutional democracy, a dedicated and committed patriot. Through her appointment to be a Commissioner of the IEC, this Parliament will affirm its unwavering commitment to the creation of nonracial, nonsexist democratic and prosperous society. Our country and its people will benefit from Commissioner Love’s experience and she will contribute to the strengthening of our constitutional
democracy by being part of the IEC that ensure that our country continues to enjoy free, fair and credible election.
The African National Congress stands in support of the recommendation for Commissioner Janet Yetta Love to serve as the Commissioner of the Independent Electoral Commission of South Africa. Thank you.
Question put: That the nomination of Ms J Y Love to serve on the Electoral Commission be approved.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, in terms of section 193(5)(b)(ii) of the Constitution, 1996, read with the 6(2)(c) of the Electoral Commission Act 51 of 1996, the person nominated for appointment to serve on the Electoral Commission must be approved by a majority of members of the Assembly. Although a division has not been demanded, members are required to record their support for the recommendation, the majority is 201, hon members. The bells will be rung for five minutes. Thank you.
Hon members, the Speaker has determined that, in accordance with the rules, the manual voting procedure will be used for this division. Firstly, in order to establish a quorum, I will
request the Table to confirm that we have a requisite number of members physically present in the Chamber and on the virtual platform to take this decision. Party Whips will then be given an opportunity to confirm the number of their members present and indicate if they vote for or against the question. A member who wishes to abstain or vote against the party vote may do so by informing the Chair.
Hon members, we have confirmed that we do have a quorum. As such, we proceed. The question before the House is that the House approves the nomination of Ms J Y Love to serve on the Electoral Commission. The voting will now commence. The doors to the Chamber will be locked and members will not be allowed to enter the virtual platform until the voting is concluded. May I ask the Whips to confirm the number of their members present in the Chamber and on the virtual platform and indicate if they vote for or against the question. Those that are not sure of their numbers on the platform the Table staff will be able to assist. Are party Whips ready to record their votes?
A quorum being present in terms of Rule 98(1), voting commenced.
AYES – 283: (ANC – 190; DA – 71; IFP – 6; ACDP – 3; FF Plus – 8; NFP – 1; AIC – 1; Cope – 1; PAC – 1; Al Jama-ah – 1).
ABSTAIN – 20: (EFF – 20).
Question agreed to.
Nomination of Ms J Y Love accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 193(5)(b)(ii) of the Constitution, 1996, read with section 6(2)(c) of the Electoral Commission Act, 1996.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES ON JUDICIAL MATTERS AMENDMENT BILL
Mr G MAGWANISHE: Hon House Chairperson, His Excellency the Deputy President, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon Chief Whip of the Majority Party and hon members, this Bill proposes to address practical and technical issues of noncontentious nature. Making amendments to numerous Acts administered by the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development. These include, proposed amendment of the Matrimonial Property Act of 1984, the Interstate Succession Act of 1987 and the Maintenance of Surviving Spouse Act of 1990, to comply with the Constitutional Court Judgements in
Sithole and Another of 2021 and Gwanya vs the Master of the High Court of Cape and Others, respectively.
The Bill also proposes to repeal the common law crime of defamation.
The committee particularly welcomes the inception of new sections which are section 57(b)(c) and (d) into the Criminal Procedure Act of 1977. These provisions will assist to clear the names of those who earned criminal records after having paid admission of guilt fines for bridging COVID-19 lockdown regulations. Specifically section 57(b) proposes that the Minister may declare that certain categories of offences do not result in a previous conviction against the accused and provides foe the expungement of minor offences as well as certain offences committed in terms of a Disaster Management Act of 2002.
The proposed new section 57(c), provides for the expungement of the criminal records of persons whose names appear in the records at the Criminal Records Centre after paid admission of guilt fines. The objective of the amendment is to provide for automatic expungement of criminal records.
I now table the report for your kind consideration. I thank you.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY MOVED: That the report be adopted.
Motion agreed to.
Report accordingly adopted.
JUDICIAL MATTERS AMENDMENT BILL
(Second Reading debate)
Declarations of Vote:
Adv G BREYTENBACH: Hon House Chairperson, the primary aim of the Judicial Matters Amendment Bill is to amend numerous Acts which are administered by the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development and are intended to address technical and practical issues of the noncontentious nature. A number of amendments are however worthy of mention. The amendments for which the reason the long battle was fought and for which the war was unnecessarily long, is the Amendment to Criminal Procedure Act concerning the payment of the admission
of guilt fine without the appearance in court and the resulting criminal conviction.
According to the proposed amendment, the Minister may declare that certain categories of offences do not result in a previous conviction against an accused and provides to the expungement of minor offences. As well as certain offences committed in terms of the Disaster Management Act. This is largely to address the accesses perpetrated upon South Africans during the COVID-19 pandemic and the questionable limitations on personal freedoms that were unnecessarily harsh and continued for far too long.
The following grounds and criteria must be considered to determine whether or not and offence made may be declared as contemplated in the amendment, the offence must be a statutory offence punishable with the fine with or without an alternative sentence of imprisonment not exceeding six months, the offence must not contain an element of violence, must not involve an infliction of mental psychological or physical harm on another person, must not involve damage to property, must not involve an element of dishonesty, must not involve cruelty to animals, must not be an offence against the administration of justice or cause pecuniary or economic loss to another
person and the offence must be a high volume offence and pose a low risk of harm or danger to others or the accused. And a criminal record in respect of the offence in question cannot be regarded as an appropriate mechanism to encourage compliance with the law.
Amendments also proposed to the administration of the Estates Act which was enacted in an era before modern methods of an electronic transfer of money, as such the use of checks have fallen into disuse. Although the Office of the Chief Master has issued a directive of authorising the use of electronic transfer of payments, it is proposed that the administration of Estates Act be amended to make provision for payments by an electronic means.
Further proposed amendments to the administrations of Estates Act are to remove references to check accounts and checks for orders and to allow an executor to open an appropriate account to make e-payments.
Amendments are also envisaged to provide for the powers, duties and functions of the Chief Master. It is worth noting that the Acting Chief Master is still in ... [Inaudible.] ... despite not appropriately qualified for the post.
In the amendment received to amend Domestic Violence Act, so as to penalise the making or enforce the declaration, clause
30 proposes an amendment to section 44 of the Superior Courts Act to make provision for the service of documents in civil proceeding before superior court making use of vetch of technology or electronic mail as contemplated in Electronic Communications and Transections Act.
Clause 35(1) of the Bill seeks to repeal the common law relating to the crime of ... [Inaudible.] ... The repeal of the common law relating to the crime of ... [Inaudible.] ... does not affect civil reliability in terms of common law. [Inaudible.] ... is currently a criminal offence in the Republic and also forms the basis of ... [Inaudible.]
The United Nations as well as other foreign authorities have expressed concerns about the chilling effects of such offences, especially on journalists and advocate for abolishment of such laws. They are well-established civil remedies based on delict in addition to the offence of crimen injuria.
These are the most struck amendments dealt within this Bill. The DA will support this legislation. I thank you.
Dr S S THEMBEKWAYO: Hon House Chairperson, at the outset we would like to caution against this form of law making that groups a whole range of legislation that individually are aimed at ... [Inaudible.]
This does not provide for a thorough process of the public participation and does not permit for the intense engagement with the text of the legislation.
The Judicial Matters Amendment Bill altogether seeks to amend about 19 Acts. Dealing with a whole range of issues affecting the administration of justice, the liquidation and distribution of estates, matrimonial matters, issues relating to the prosecution of crimes, matters relating to the draconian Disaster Management Act, and the so-called crimes committed under that Act.
The Bill itself was introduced in June. Now we are required to ratify the work of the executive of this House as this House.
The Bill emanates from the executive and Parliament cannot simply be used to rubberstamp legislation which is of the executive, without subjecting Bills to a comprehensive public hearing programme. That now withstanding, we support the
proposed amendments to the Magistrate Court Act in as far it empowers the courts to subpoena witnesses in civil matters who may help the court to make informed decisions.
We are also in support of the amendment of the administration. The prosecutions and persecutions that came about as a result of the regulation flowing from the Disaster Management Act during covid, demonstrate the depth into which our judicial system could use to severely limit the rights of individuals.
We are happy with the amendment that will expunge the criminal records of those who were convicted as a result of covid offences. May the law never again be used in perceive of sinister motives such as it happened during covid.
The amendment of the Interstate Succession Act and the Maintenance of Surviving Spouses Act are specific pieces of legislation that required extensive public participation.
These amendments if passed into law, will change the institution of marriage as we have come to know it. Now, people who were never married, will be able to claim benefits from the estates of their partners as if they were married.
The word spouse will be interpreted to mean people in life partnership relationships will opt at never to get married.
Who opted never to get married? This is a societal matter that ought to reflect the diversity of views in society and not just the view of a selected few. Despite for our support for some of the amendments, we are unable to offer our full support to this Bill as we think some of the issues needed to be engaged more thoroughly. Thank you, House Chairperson.
Prof C T MSIMANG: Thank you, House Chair. This Bill firstly introduced on 30 March 2023, seeks to address matters of a technical nature that currently requires amendment of approximately 37 clauses across 19 current Acts of this Legislative Assembly. The amendments stated to be of a noncontentious manner and certain constitutional defects in certain Acts are to be welcomed and all except one amendment will not require regulation.
The amendment in the Domestic Violence Act, which seeks to penalise the submission of false declarations in the event that a false declaration had been made by the applicant.
Clause 10, with its insertion of new sections 57(b), 57(c) and 57(b) into the Criminal Procedure Act 1977, as these provisions will assist in clearing the names of those who received criminal records after having paid admission of guilt fines for breaching Covid-19 lockdown regulations.
Clause 12 which proposes the repeal of section 31 (3) of the Matrimonial Property Act of 1984 to comply with the Constitutional Court jurisprudence in 2021 which found that section 31(3)(a) is unfairly discriminatory and not justifiable under section 36 of the Constitution to the extent that it maintains and perpetuates the discrimination created by section 22(6) of the Black Amendment Act. In that it regarded marriages of black couples entered into under (b)(a)(a) before 1988 to be automatically out of community of property.
Clause 23 inserts section 34(a), after section 34, the Prevention of Combating of Corrupt Activities Act of 2004 to provide for the failure of persons or entities in preventing bribery as recommended by the Judicial Commission of Inquiry into allegations of state capture, corruption and fraud.
Finally, clause 10, with its insertion of new section 57(b), 57(c) and 57(d)into the Criminal Procedure Act of 1977. The IFP supports the report. I thank you. [Time expired.]
Mr S N SWART: Thank you House Chair. House Chair, South Africa experienced one of the longest and harshest Covid-19 lockdowns globally, with many, in our view, irrational regulations passed in terms of the Disaster Management Act. These had a
devastating impact, not only on businesses and the economy, but on people’s lives. Tens of thousands of people were arrested for breaking regulations such as those relating to curfews, consumption of alcohol or going into public places such as beaches and parks when they were not allowed to do so.
By June 2020, there had been 230 000 arrests and more tragically, 11 deaths after heavy-handed action by authorities. This includes the tragic death of Mr Collins Khoza, who died after being assaulted by soldiers. What was his crime? Drinking alcohol inside the yard with his friends? By the end of the lockdown, more than 400 000 people were arrested, many trying to make a living and not adhering to the curfews, not having or using sanitisers or not wearing masks. Many of these people would have paid admission of guilt fines to avoid going to court. This resulted in them having a criminal record which makes it difficult to obtain employment, and to provide for one’s family. It was at this time that the ACDP called for the expungement of criminal records for all those who had paid an admission of guilt fine for these trivial offences under the Disaster Management Regulations and who had thus incurred criminal records.
Our recommendations received unanimous support from the Justice Committee, which included the proposal in its 2020 report, and the Bill before the House today contains provisions in this regard. Sections 57(b), 57(c) and 57(d), amend the Criminal Procedure Act. Now, the Minister may declare certain categories of offences do not result in previous convictions against the accused and provides for the expungement of minor offences. This will assist people to clear their names who earned criminal records after having paid admission of guilt fines for breaching Covid-19 lockdown regulations.
The ACDP encourages all those who paid an admission of guilt fines to apply for expungement as soon as this Bill is signed into law by the President. And may we never again have such irrational regulations which were passed sadly without parliamentary intervention or oversight, and devastated businesses, employment and the economy as a whole. The ACDP will support this Bill. I thank you.
Mr S M JAFTA: No declaration Chairperson.
Mr T LOATE: No declaration Chairperson.
Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Thank you House Chair. House Chair, as you know, we have a very effective parliamentary legislative drafting team, but I can’t say the same for the legislative drafting team in the Department of Justice because of the high labour turnover. Press reports indicate that those who serve
...
Afrikaans:
... is dun in die broek ...
English:
... if I am using the correct Afrikaans term. So, we have to look at their legislative recommendations more carefully, but they ran to a Cabinet to try and bypass checks and balances. So, we are very concerned about the general trend in these amendments. What is missing from the amendments? You know that when the armed struggle was declared by President Mandela, the resistance fighters got a lot of criminal records. Those criminal records still exist. In fact, some of them, for their political activities are still languishing in our jails.
So, that is an omission in the amendments. Also, if you look at the department’s response to amendments to the Maintenance Bill, and also amendments to the Divorce Bill, the legislation
discriminates against women, and what is very sad is that the State Advocate gives them a certificate of ... [Inaudible.]
... master. So, Al Jama-ah feels that there needs to be more scrutiny, and that’s why we won’t support this Bill. Thank you very much.
Ms N H MASEKO-JELE: House Chairperson, His Excellency, the Deputy President, members of the House, the key aim of the Bill is to amend numerous Acts administered by the Department of Justice and Correctional Development and are designed to address practical and technical issues of a non-conscientious nature, as well as constitutional judgments. The majority of changes planned include those relating to the internal functioning of the judicial system in a very specific sense such as the rules regulating payments methods for affidavits, the regulation of calling witnesses and multiple extensions of definitions.
Thirty-seven clauses contained in the Amendment Bill seeks to remedy the identified shortcomings and constitutional defects in current Acts. The proposed amendments will also boost the smooth administration of justice. Two of the most notably planned amendments include the Criminal Procedure Act and Domestic Violence Act. With the Criminal Procedure Act, the
Bill provides changes to the Criminal Procedure Act, especially through provisions detailing the admission of guilt and the payment of fines. It further provides for the payment of a fine without an appearance in court and the previous conviction.
The Bill provides for the removal of a criminal record for a person who is deemed to have been convicted and sentenced in respect of an offence contemplated in any regulations that have been made in terms of section 27(2) of the Disaster Management Act 2002. If they had paid an admission of guilt fine or appeared in court, summarily the Bill removes the criminal records of people who paid a fine for breaking Covid-
19 lockdown laws, not only Covid-19, but Covid lockdown laws.
Laws relating to the pandemic included the wearing of masks, only participating in limited social gatherings, not being on the road at certain times, alcohol and tobacco restrictions.
With the Domestic Violence Act, clause 19 of the Judicial Matters Amendment Bill seek to amend the Domestic Violence Act, 1998, so as to penalise the making of a false declaration. A person could make the application just by declaration, not by affidavit. But to prevent false declarations, there must be consequences.
The Judicial Matters Amendment Bill also introduces a penalty of false declaring domestic violence. Prior to Judicial Amendment Bill, the Domestic Violence Act was amended through the Domestic Violence Amendment Bill. That Bill sought to revise and provide new definitions, including controlling behaviour and cohesive behaviour, and expand the current definition of domestic violence to include spiritual abuse, elder abuse and exposing children to listed behaviours.
Additionally, the updated legislation introduces online applications for protection orders against domestic violence. Imposes duties on officials in Health and Social Development departments to provide support to domestic violence victims. Then, clause 26 amends section 55A of the Sexual Offences Act, align practical considerations to the legal position. The intention of the legislation is for specific courts or places of sitting to be designated as sexual offences courts, but the current provision allows for the declaration of regional courts. With the economic climate in the country, there are insufficient funds to expand the special resources to the large number of courts where the regional courts sit. The Amendment Bill seeks to address that too.
Proposed amendments to the Criminal Law, Sexual Offences and Related Matters Amendment Act of 2007 include regulating the
designation of public health establishments for purposes of providing post exposure prophylaxis and carrying out compulsory HIV testing, amending the definition of sexual offences, regulating designation of sexual offences of courts, and regulating the manner in which child pornography must be dealt with and be disposed of.
House Chairperson, ANC is working very hard, and we are not here to score political points like the EFF. In the interest of smooth administration of justice, the ANC supports the Bill. I thank you.
Question put.
Report agreed to.
Bill read a second time (Economic Freedom Fighters and Al Jama-ah dissenting).
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES ON CORRECTIONAL SERVICES AMENDMENT BILL
Mr G MAGWANISHE: House Chairperson, hon Deputy President, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members, section 85(1) of
the Correctional Services Act, Act 111 of 1998, provides for the establishment of an independent office called the Judicial Inspectorate for Correctional Services, JICS, under the control of an inspecting judge.
The role of the Judicial Inspectorate for Correctional Services is to facilitate the inspection of correctional centres in order that the inspecting judge may report on the treatment of inmates in correctional centres and on conditions in correctional centres.
In December 2020 the Constitutional Court confirmed the order of constitutional invalidity made by the Western Cape High Court in Sonke Gender Justice versus the President of the Republic of South Africa and others regarding certain provisions of the Correctional Services Act dealing with the independence of the Judicial Inspectorate for Correctional Services.
These provisions set out in section 88A(1) and section 91 of the Correctional Services Act deal with the position of the chief executive officer, CEO, of JICS as well as the finances of JICS.
The court held that these provisions are constitutionally invalid to the extent that they fail to provide adequate levels of independence of the Judicial Inspectorate for Correctional Services.
The Constitutional Court suspended the declaration of constitutional invalidity for 24 months to afford Parliament an opportunity to enact remedial legislation.
Because of numerous delays, the Bill could not be introduced to Parliament within the stipulated 24 months. This necessitated the Department of Correctional Services to request an extension from the Constitutional Court, which was granted for a further 12 months.
The delays experienced with the introduction of this Bill and missing the Constitutional Court deadline has highlighted some of the challenges between Parliament and the executive when it comes to the introduction of legislation. The committee thinks this is an area that needs to be looked at very seriously.
The Bill seeks to amend the Correctional Services Act, Act 111 of 1998, to align it with the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa and the Sonke judgment to provide for adequate
levels of independence to the JICS and matters related thereto.
Because this Bill only addresses the judgment of the Constitutional Court, there is an urgent need for JICS Bill that will ensure that JICS is fully operational and independent from the very same department that it overseas.
The JICS Bill will also address the role of JICS as part of the National Preventative Mechanism under the Optional Protocol of the United Nations Convention against torture.
The committee supports this Bill. Thank you very much.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY moved that the House adopt the report.
Question put.
Report agreed to.
CORRECTIONAL SERVICES AMENDMENT BILL
(Second Reading debate)
Mr J ENGELBRECT: House Chair, this Bill is supposed to provide for the adequate level of independence for the Judicial Inspectorate for Correctional Services.
This was in response of the Constitutional Court Sonke judgement declaring that section 88A and 91 of the principal Act were inconsistent with section 7 paragraph 2 of the Constitution.
The court held that these two provisions are constitutionally invalid and the extent that they failed to provide an adequate level of independence to JICS.
The Sonke judgment was handed down on 5 September 2019, four years ago. The extended deadline set in the judgment was 3 December 2023.
This Bill under discussion attempts to deal with the immediate constitutional matters. However, the most urgent challenges that JICS are facing are not mentioned. Challenges like no specific references are made to obligations in terms of the National Preventative Mechanism. There are no alignments to the Public Service Act when it comes to the appointment of a chief executive officer, CEO. Recommendations made by JICS are
not binding. And JICS still won’t be able to operate as a separate independent body as contemplated in the Sonke judgment.
Whilst the DA supports this Bill, it should be noted that this Bill is a hasty cut and paste job in an attempt to comply with the deadline set by the Sonke judgment. It is an indictment on the legislative responsibility of Parliament.
The dragging of feet means that the very important and sorely needed JICS Bill will lapse and will have to be reinstated by the Seventh Parliament.
Citizens probably wonder why Parliament fails to draft and pass relevant legislation four years after such a need was identified and required by the Constitutional Court. It is, after all, a core function and responsibility of Parliament.
This is what happens when Parliament in exercising its legislative authority ... [Inaudible.] ... the executives hastily put together a cut and paste legislation.
In terms of the Portfolio Committee on Justice, Constitutional Development and Correctional Services, the responsibilities of
this committee are too broad, despite it being the busiest committee in Parliament, the workload doesn’t seem to get any less.
The justice section is overburdened as it is, leading to the correctional services section that had to process this Bill, not receiving the required attention. These are two big departments with enormous budgets. The reason why they are not two separate portfolio committees eludes me. I really hope that the Seventh Parliament will at least correct this.
The DA will support this Bill. Thank you.
Dr S S THEMBEKWAYO: Chairperson, the crisis facing correctional centres in this country is such that no cosmetic amendment to the laws will fix. The crisis requires a complete overhaul of the prison system in this country to ensure that those who are incarcerated do get proper opportunities for rehabilitation.
At present, it is impossible to ensure that this happens because of the deeply embedded corruption within correctional services.
Our correctional centres are abnormally overcrowded, making the administration of these centres a nightmare for managers.
So, changing the names of heads of prisons to heads of humane detention facilities, as this Bill seeks to do, is merely an inconsequential amendment. The Minister is fiddling while prisons are burning.
Chair, if we are to legislate, we must have minimum standards for correctional centres such as capping the number of inmates who may be kept in a cell in jail or legislating the human rights of inmates such as their right to food, to bodily integrity, to faster medical care and not to be subjected to conditions in which they lose any of these fundamental rights.
We must legislate for the need to have regular lifestyle audits for prison officials who more often take monies from inmates in return for preferential treatment of these inmates.
We know that if you have money you can buy your way to comfort in jail, either by bringing correctional services staff themselves or through buying the protection of gang members in jail.
Our correctional centres have become universities of crime in this country where many come out as hardened criminals.
In as far as the amendment relates to Judicial Inspectorate of Correctional Services, while we support mandatory reporting requirements by heads of prisons to the Judicial Inspectorate, these do not take the full account of abuses faced by inmates.
The amendment ought to also include making it mandatory to report prisoners to prisoner violations of human rights and create an obligation on correctional centres to stop putting prisoner to prisoner abuse.
Overall, we are in support of the Bill. Thank you.
Prof C T MSIMANG: Hon House Chair, the Amendment Bill arises from a Constitutional Court finding that section 88(a)(1)(b) and 91 of the principal Act were inconsistent with section 7(2) of the Constitution. The court holding that the impound provisions were constitutionally in valued to the extent that they failed to provide for an educate level of independence to the Judiciary Inspectorate for Correctional Services, that’s the JICS.
The Amendment Bill seeks to align the Correctional Services ACT 111 of 1998 and judgement handed down in Sonke regarding require provision of adequate independence to the JICS, quote: "When deciding a constitutional matter within its power, a court must declare that any law or conduct that is inconsistent with the Constitution is invalid to the extent of its inconsistency.”
Striking down unconstitutional legislation is therefore not the only but accruable the default option.
The matter before us has been postponed beyond 24 months’ deadline accorded to Parliament by the Constitutional Court to an act remedial legislation and another 12 months’ postponement was thought by the Department of Correctional Services and subsequently granted by the court.
Public hearings were held and submissions received. The IFP supports the Bill but urges the Ministry of Justice and Correctional Services to introduce a related Judicial Inspectorate for Correctional Services Bill. The Bill will deal with the function of the JICS. I thank you, hon Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): FF PLUS?
Mr S N SWART: House Chair, this judgement was passed by the Constitutional Court on 4 December 2020, where the court held that the provisions of the Act, that is the Correctional Service Act were unconstitutional invalid because they failed to provide adequate level of independence to the Judicial Inspectorate for Correctional Services, that’s JICS.
Now I am sure we are all agree that, it is crucial for JICS to enjoy independence to enable to do its work efficiently and correctly and that’s oversight over correctional services facilities.
A court gave Parliament until 4 December 2022 to pass the amending legislation and because of various delays, as pointed out by the other speakers, this could not be achieved and an extension was requested from the Constitutional Court until
4 December 2023 this year. Only on 2 June of this year was this Bill tabled before Parliament and introduced to the committee for consideration. That’s three years after the judgement. This is an issue which the ACDP and many others in majority party as well have been raising as a concern in the Parliament the time delays for the executive to present legislation to Parliament when there is Constitutional Court
judgement and when there are extensions coming to be requested by the executives.
One must bear in mind that, the orders are granted against Parliament and it is often places Parliament in a very difficult position when it comes to finalising legislation. This piece of legislation, which we are considering today has to be considered by this House has then to go to the NCOP and then the President need to consider before 4 December, which does not give in our view sufficient time.
However, in view of the fact that it does bring a level of independence to JICS, it is very important that we as the committee and all of us support the Bill as introduced but we do urge the Ministry to introduce the related Judicial Inspectorate for Correctional Services Bill, which will deal in greater detail with the independence and the funding of the JICS as is required. So, this in our view is an in tremble to meet Constitutional Court deadline and the ACDP will support this Bill. I thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): AIC?
Mr S M JAFTA: No declaration, Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): PAC?
Mr M NYHONTSO: No declaration, Chair.
Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chair, this is a first step in the right direction but for nearly two years the human rights of persons have been violated. That is one of the first step that makes a country a failed state. It cannot be that the Department of Justice ask for extension and extension after the Constitutional Court judgement. In ignoring the orders of the Speaker that we must pay very important attention to the latitude that the Constitutional Court has given us two years to remedy matters. But in the Department of Justice, that seems to fall on deaf ears.
I know that the Minister of Justice is not directly responsible for legislation, but I think it is about time that he starts taking an interest on what his deputies are doing and it cannot be that Parliament be embarrassed.
I am surprise at the Constitutional Court just grants extension willy-nilly and they subscribe to start putting in place court orders. That should be consequence management.
You cannot violate human rights of people beyond the two-year latitude that the Constitutional Court has given. But this is a step in the right direction and Al Jama-ah will support this report.
Ms N H MASEKO-JELE: House Chair, the Excellency, the Deputy President and colleagues, the re-genesis of South Africa’s penal system was crafted through the Prisons and Reformatories Act promulgated in 1911, which decreed that, treasons of the union of South Africa shall be strictly desegregated, secret and use corporal punishment, abuse grew to appalling heights over decades. Attempts to disclose what was going on in apartheid ... [Interjections.] ... of the media and others under the racist authoritarian regime of apartheid, the legal system administered in justice as the courts were required to implementing increasingly oppressive laws far from being guardians of fundamental rights.
The judiciary came to represent the gateway to unjust imprisonment and punishment without purpose. The majority of the South African population came to regard the machination of justice with suspicion and mistrust. It is the Correctional Services Act, No. 111 of 1998 together with the White Paper on Corrections in South Africa, which facilitated a new paradigm
shift opting for corrections through rehabilitate interventions.
The don of constitutional democracy has necessitated the extensive systematic reform of correctional centres. The Judicial Inspectorate for Correctional Services, JICS, facilitate the inspection of correctional facilities to ensure that offenders rights are respected and there is inspectorate report on any corrupt or dishonest practices in correctional centres. JICS, articulated detail standards regulating the conditions of detention and the treatment of incarcerated persons and represented a move towards an international acceptance correctional system.
Dignity is a fundamental value in our Constitution. In the Sonke Gender Justice case, the court noted that, vulnerability of inmates in correctional centres and the real possibility of the infringement of their rights to life dignity bodily security and conditions consulate with human dignity imposes a positive obligation on the state to provide appropriate protection to inmates through laws and structures designed to afford such protection.
Sonke instituted proceedings in the High Court and challenge section 85(2) 91, 88A(1)(b), 88A(4) and 91 of the Constitutional Services Act on the basis that this sections failed to provide the judicial inspectorate with the independent it requires to operate effectively. Sonke submitted that, section 7(2) of the Constitution read with the applicable international law required the state to create an adequately independent judicial inspectorate. Not what the EFF is talking about, what you are trying to address currently, corruptions within our centres and the department. That’s not the topic. The topic is that the High Court upheld Sonke challenging to section 88A(b) section 88A(4) and 91 and found out that these sections threatened the judicial inspectorate independence, which was vital to the judicial inspectorate delivery for its mandate and that the creation of inspectorate without the necessary independence to discharge its mandate would not constitute a reasonable step as required under section 7(2) of the Constitution.
In the Constitutional Court, Sonke contended that, the High Court order should be confirmed in respect of all three of the impart sections. It submitted that, they undermined the independence of the judiciary inspectorate rendering its
subject to the control of the Department of Correctional Service, which it is designed to oversee.
The first judgement, which is the majority judgement, upheld the order of constitutional invalidity in respect of section 88A(1)(b) and 91. It held that section 7(2) of the Constitution required the state to take reasonable steps to protect the rights of incarcerated persons and that the state had elected to do so by establishing the judicial inspectorate.
The first judgement concluded that, independent was inherent characteristics of an oversight entity and that the judiciary inspectorate should be structurally and operationally independent and perceived as such in order to execute its mandate. This requirement floats directly from the state constitutional obligation to act reasonable and effectively in protecting the rights of incarcerated persons.
The first judgement affirmed that this finding was supported by international law. The first judgement held that sections 88A(1)(b) and 91 did not ensure sufficient structural and operational independence to the judicial inspectorate nor they holster the public perception of its independence. This Bill,
therefore, seek to amend the principal Act to align it with the Constitution of the republic of South Africa and the Sonke judgment to provide for an adequate level of independence to the JICS and matters related thereto.
We are of the view that this Bill will strengthen the relationship between JICS and the Department of Correctional Services. The ANC support the Bill. I thank you.
Bill read a second time.
PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION LAWS GENERAL AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of report of Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration)
Ms T MGWEBA: Hon House Chair, hon Deputy President, hon Ministers, Deputy Ministers and hon members, good afternoon. Lawmaking is a constitutional mandate and key function of Parliament. The process of lawmaking requires consultation. Today, we table before this august House the report of the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration on the Private Member's Bill named the Public Administration Laws General Amendment Bill.
The Bill was introduced in the National Assembly, proposed as a section 76 Bill, and was published in the Government Gazette. The Bill was sponsored by hon member Dr Leon Schreiber, one of the committee members. Among the objects of the Bill is to prohibit political office bearers from employment in the Public Service; to prohibit special service benefits for directors-general and heads of departments who get dismissed from the Public Service; to enhance the financial independence of the Public Service Commission, PSC; and to mandate the PSC to enforce merit-based appointments free from political interference.
As part of the tradition of processing legislation, the committee received input from four organisations, both written and oral submissions, on the Bill. The Socioeconomic Impact Assessment System unit in the Presidency was invited to provide input on the Bill. Based on the outcomes of public participation, it found that the Bill coalesces with some of the work already initiated by our government and parallels other important legislative amendment Bills such as the Public Service Amendment Bill, the Public Administration Management Amendment Bill and the Public Service Commission Amendment Bill.
Currently, the committee is processing the Public Service Amendment Bill and the Public Administration Management Bill which addresses similar aspects which the Public Administration Laws General Amendment Bill seeks to achieve. The Public Service Amendment Bill focuses on strengthening the recruitment process which embraces meritocratic appointments in the Public Service. Financial administration, governance and independence of the PSC remain a paramount priority of the committee. The PSC is currently finalising the Bill to be tabled before Parliament, which seeks to repeal the Public Service Commission Act of 1997 to enable the commission to operate as independent, with its staff recruited under the new Act and with its own secretariat appointed by the commissioners.
All legislative and policy reforms in the Public Service are consistent and complement the Public Administration Laws General Amendment Bill based on the existing legislative amendments in the Public Service. The committee resolved to recommend to this august House that the Public Administration Laws General Amendment Bill is undesirable as it coalesces and complements the existing Bills drafted by the Department of Public Service and Administration. The Public Administration Laws General Amendment Bill mirrored the above-mentioned Bills
before the committee and the sponsor of the Bill, hon Schreiber, tabled the Bill in the National Assembly whilst the department was still consulting with relevant stakeholders.
The Bill is undesirable and the ANC rejects this Bill. Thank you very much, House Chair.
There was no debate.
Declarations of vote:
Dr L A SCHREIBER: Hon Chair, over the past term this Parliament has repeatedly been presented with evidence of the devastating consequences of cadre deployment. The Zondo Commission found that cadre deployment laid the foundation for state capture. The National Framework towards Professionalisation of the Public Sector recommended that, “deployment practices ought to be ditched in favour of merit- based recruitment and selection systems”.
Earlier this month, the Supreme Court of Appeal confirmed that it is illegal for the ANC to keep cadre deployment records secret from the people of South Africa because it impacts on service delivery. I see the Deputy President, as current chair of the deployment committee, is present here today. If all of this was still not enough to convince you that it is time to
abolish cadre deployment, I invite you to simply go out onto the streets and have a five minute conversation with ordinary citizens. You will quickly realise that the people of this country know why Eskom no longer provides them with electricity. They know why they cannot take the train to work, why police do not catch criminals and why there is no longer water coming out of the taps. The people of South Africa understand why the social grants they need to survive are no longer being paid. Yes, the people of South Africa indeed know that the suffering they endure at the hands of a corrupt and an incompetent state is due to one thing above all else; the virus of cadre deployment. This virus has infected every part of our lives. It has rewritten the very DNA of our society.
Instead of a society that embraces skills and celebrates excellence, cadre deployment has given power over us to the very worst among us.
Today, the DA proudly presents the cure for cadre deployment to this House. The end cadre deployment Bill will make it a criminal offence to interfere in public appointment processes. It will prohibit politicians from working in the civil service. It will make the PSC independent and mandate it to enforce merit-based appointments.
Yet, the report proposed by the ANC majority in the Committee on Public Service and Administration regards this Bill as, “undesirable”. That's right. The ANC in this committee openly admits that it does not desire a cure for the cadre deployment virus that is killing South Africa. We should all be clear on one thing. Today's vote is nothing less than a referendum that will show where political parties stand on the issue of systemic corruption. The DA will call for a division and vote against this report and its nonsensical view that a cure for cadre deployment is undesirable. A vote against this report today is a vote against cadre deployment. Conversely, any party that votes in favour of this report will be voting in favour of cadre deployment and corruption. Any party that votes for this report will be violating the state capture commission’s crystal-clear finding that cadre deployment is unlawful.
Ms C N NDABA: ... [Inaudible.] ... cadre deployment ... [Inaudible.] Suka!
Dr L A SCHREIBER: This is a moment of truth, especially for the ANC and for President Cyril Ramaphosa. After all the promises and all the lip service, a vote for cadre deployment today will expose the true face of the party led by President
Ramaphosa. A vote for this report will confirm that state capture and corruption is nothing less than the official policy of the ANC. It is time to stand up and be counted in this House today. I call on the ANC to fix the mistake made by its members in committee by rejecting this report. If more than half of the members in this House vote against the report, we will begin to rescue South Africa from cadre deployment. Just last week we saw how different parties put aside narrow politics in order to do the right thing by removing the Public Protector. Let us do so again today by embracing the cure for cadre deployment. However, let us also be warned. Any party that fails to rise to the occasion today can rest assured that voters will punish them harshly next year for having the audacity to openly vote for cadre deployment, for corruption and for state capture. I thank you.
Ms R N KOMANE: On behalf of the Economic Freedom Fighters we find the behavior of the committee and the National Assembly turbulent nonsensical. Last week this House approved two committee reports rejecting Private Member’s Bills introduced by Members of Parliament. The reasons advanced by the Finance Standing Committee were nonsensical and we made this clear.
Today, we are informed that the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration considers the Public Administration Laws General Amendment Bill, another Private Member’s Bill undesirable, which the ANC used its majority to come to that decision. Even in this instance, no acceptable reasons have been provided for rejecting this Bill except that it was a Private Member’s Bill. The message we are sending to the public is that this Parliament does not process Private Members’ Bills. We are, in fact, declaring that as Parliament, our primary job is to wait for the executive to introduce legislation and we will follow their lead, even on matters that the very same executive poses a problem.
It is the very same executive that has crippled the Public Service Commission rendering it ineffective and is now riddled with corruption and nepotism by senior officials. Mr Cyril Ramaphosa promised to conduct a lifestyle audit in 2018, to this day, there is no shred of evidence of any of this occurring. We are left with no choice but to conclude that this is a lie. The man spoke of reforms on paper throughout his entire term in office and with only a few months left he continues to promise reforms.
We may not agree with the assertion that every political appointment is inherently corrupt and that it will lead to political interference. Just because the ANC has poorly managed the state since 1996, does not automatically mean that political appointments lack merit. We are attempting to address the ANC corruption with legislation rather than effective oversight in the absence of an independent National Prosecuting Authority, NPA. For now, Chairperson, the solution is to remove the ANC from power in 2024, so that they can no longer use their majority to misrepresent this country. Thank you very much.
Mr M HLENGWA: House Chairperson, I am reading this declaration on behalf of the hon Inkosi R N Cebekhulu. Our Constitution has been praised as one of - if not - the best in the world.
Although this is so, our legislation is only as effective and functional as those who enforce them. It is, therefore, no wonder that one cannot overemphasise the importance of the Public Service that is professionally effective, functional and above all responsive to the needs of our people.
Despite our differences in values, priorities and affiliations in this House, the IFP is confident that we can all agree that beyond these walls our Public Service force is in disarray as
more often than not public resources are intentionally - one might argue - not being used efficiently, effectively nor economically. Amongst of these, we recognise the importance of this Bill in empowering the Public Service Commission to take remedial action where deemed applicable and necessary, most importantly, in prohibiting special service benefits for director-generals and heads of departments, HODs, who get dismissed from the Public Service due to plethora of reasons.
House Chairperson, not only is the current modus operandi of seemingly rewarding director-generals or heads of departments who have been dismissed for either corruption practice or sheer incompetence absurd at its best, but it also puts needlessly enormous strain on the fiscus of the country.
Therefore, it is of great concern to the IFP and it has taken this long for similar stance to be taken and implemented on this matter. One can only wonder why this was never the priority of government in all these years.
The best proposals to mandate the Public Service Commission, PSC, to enforce merit-based appointments which are divorced from political interference ... [Inaudible.] ...essential to the sustainability of the functionality of our Public Service. On my stress with confidence ... [Inaudible.] ... although you
will know the supreme law of the land is the Constitution mandating that, no employee of the Public Service may be favoured or prejudiced only because that person support a particular political party or course, it has become quite the norm and even almost unquestionable for employment in Public Service to be directly linked to and influenced by a person’s political affiliation.
Therefore, the successful adoption and enforcement of this Bill leads the country towards much needed depoliticisation of the Public Service while simultaneously building a capable, ethical and professional Public Service Administration that is not only free from any political interference but one that is beneficial to all. Hon House Chairperson, it is our sincere plea that this matter be afforded the attention and urgency it deserves. This we believe will ensure that monies wasted unnecessarily in both corruption and incompetent public office bearers can be steered rightly directed toward service delivery that our people have been desperately waiting for, for three decades. I thank you.
Ms H DENNER: Chairperson, the Zondo Commission found that practices of political appointments and removals were key to state capture. This has also been confirmed in our courts
through the likes of Mlokoti versus the Amathole District Municipality. Furthermore, according to the Institute for Race Relations, the public service placement has become so politicised that incumbent spent most of their time garnering political favour and looking for their next position, thus, not serving the citizens of this country.
During the public participation process on this Bill, the Unisa’s Institute for Global Dialogue also argued that there is a growing consensus over party lines about the need for a professional public service.
Afrikaans:
Dit is reeds gemeensaak, dat die stand van Suid-Afrika se staatsdiens nie professioneel, bekwaam of eties is nie. Waarom nie? In plaas daarvan om meriete-gebaseerde aanstellings te maak en behoorlike bestuursbeginsels vir personeel toe te pas, is die roete van kaderontplooiing, nepotisme en bedrog en korrupsie eerder gevolg. Waarom anders sal hierdie regering by monde van die Departement van Staatsdiens en Administrasie met elke moontlike geleentheid wat hulle kry, spog met die sogenaamde, staatsdiens professionaliseringsraamwerk? Waarom is so ’n raamwerk in die eerste plek, nou nodig?
English:
According to the Report, government through the Department of Public Service and Administration, DPSA, is currently working on a plethora of policies which includes the professionalisation framework to enforce merit-based appointments free from political interference. This is nothing else than an admission of guilt by the ANC majority on the portfolio committee on behalf of the ANC government that this so-called plethora of policies is necessary to address and undo the damage that political interference and cadre deployment has done to the Public Service and to South Africa under the ANC government for the past 30 years.
Afrikaans:
Maar, soos met alle mooi broodjies wat deur die ANC gebak word, is hierdie sogenaamde oorvloed van oorvleuelende beleidsraamwerke ook net lippediens, want nieteenstaande die oorvloed van verskonings, wat voorgehou word as redes vir die sogenaamde ongewenstheid van hierdie Wetsontwerp, is hierdie Wetsontwerp die enigste tasbare teenvoeter vir kaderontplooiing, wat al ter tafel gelê is, en wat gedurende hierdie parlementêre termyn deurgevoer kan word. En daarom weier die ANC-lede van hierdie komitee en hierdie vergadering
om hierdie wetsontwerp te aanvar. Dan word die bekamping van kaderontplooiing ’n werklikheid.
Eenvoudige gestel, dit sal die belange van die mense van Suid- Afrika bo die belange van die ANC stel. Dit is wat vir die ANC onaanvaarbaar is. Ek dank u.
Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, the ACDP has taken note of this Report which rejects yet another imminently reasonable Private Member’s Bill. We would like to remind the House what the Constitutional Court had to say about the importance of Private Member’s Bills. This is important for this Bill and the next item which is the CDP’s Private Member’s Bill. The court said, ours is a constitutional democracy that is designed to ensure that the voices are heard even those who would - given a choice - have preferred not to entertain the views of the marginalised or the powerless minorities.
The power of an individual Member of the Assembly to introduce a Bill, particularly those from the ranks of the opposition is more than ceremonial in its significance. It gives them – that’s us, the opposition - the opportunity to go beyond merely opposing but to propose constructively in a national forum another way of doing things. It serves as an avenue for
articulating positions through public debate and consideration of alternative proposals on how particular issue can be addressed or regulated differently and arguably better. This is key.
The main aim of this Bill is to depoliticise the Public Service and build a capable, ethical and professional Public Administration free from any political interference. A merit- based Public Service helps to bring high quality staff, it confers prestige in the civil service positions. This can ameliorate individual performance to provide quality service to all citizens. Meritocracy provides talented and hardworking people from all walks of life ... [Inaudible.] ... the means of advancement and the opportunity to contribute to the wellbeing of the larger society. This is obvious to all of us that this is necessary.
However, beyond that the Zondo state Commission has found that the ANC cadre deployment is unconstitutional and illegal. The Zondo Commission said, I quote: “The Constitution envisages a Public Administration that maintains a high standard of professional ethics that is efficient, economic, effective in its use of resources, that is impartial, fair, equitable and without bias.” More tellingly, Judge Zondo confirmed the link
between the cadre deployment committee and state capture in his Report. Read the Report.
This Bill in a nutshell will prevent cadre deployment which has wrecked government departments and the state-owned enterprises, SOEs. It is surely to be supported given the poor state of many of our departments, municipalities, incompetence and corruption largely due to cadre deployment. No wonder that the ANC is opposed to this Bill, given the vested interest in maintaining cadre deployment. The ACDP will not support this Report which rejects these imminent proposals in line with the Zondo Report recommendations. How can it be declared undesirable? I thank you.
Mr S M JAFTA: House Chairperson, the National Development Plan envisages a professional and capable public service. This is consistent with the Constitution, which requires public administration to be efficient and effective. In this regard, all organs of state, inclusive of state departments across all spheres of government, must comply with the public service prescripts in order to give full effect to public service prescripts.
The Public Service Commission must enjoy adequate independence. The purpose of the Public Service Commission Amendment Bill is geared towards achieving this independence. It also repeals the Public Service Commission Act of 1997, with the sole aim to confer the commission’s sufficient independence and transform it as an impartial constitutional body with its own secretariat.
We also support the Bill’s intention to prohibit political office bearers from employment in the service in the public service, including its commitment to enhance the administrative independence of the commission. The provisions of the Bill dealing with bolstering the commission’s remedial powers as binding is to be commended.
In relation to budget allocations to the commission, we support the ongoing trends which the Bill formalises into law, wherein the National Treasury as opposed to the Department of Public Service and Administration, irresponsible for the commission’s budget. This will guarantee its independence and shield it from executive interference.
The insertion of section 8(a) to the Public Service Commission Act by this Bill must also be celebrated. For the first time
in the history of public service. Any decisions regarding the recruitment, transfer and promotion of public service employees will be based on ability demonstrated by proficiency, including qualifications and skills.
The prohibition of any recruitment, transfer, promotion, or dismissal based on a person’s support or opposition to a particular political party or calls is also worth noting. The current trend has been to employ people on the basis of their political party affiliation, which has tended to compromise efficient service delivery. It is indeed time to reinvent the wheel and cast public service anew. We support the Bill, hon House Chair, thank you very much.
Mr M NYHOTSO: Hon House Chair, the PAC supports the Bill.
Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chair, Al Jama-ah supports ...
Afrikaans:
...die voorlegging...
English:
...of the FF Plus, that South Africa needs a professional public service. And as we heard that was the recommendation of
the Zondo Commission and that is also the position of President Cyril Ramaphosa. I don’t know, what is the position of the leader of Parliament with regard to a professional public service.
So, Al Jama-ah would like to thank hon Schreiber for throwing a lifeline to South Africa by coming up with a Private Member’s Bill that addresses these shortcomings in our democracy.
Hon House Chair you know, I think that there should be a ruling condemning the position of the portfolio committee that the hon Schreiber’s Bill is undesirable. There is nothing more desirable than that Bill and it is a disgrace that Parliament be told that it is undesirable. Al Jama-ah would like to propose that some of the great clauses and groundbreaking clauses in hon Schreiber’s Bill should be cut and pasted in the so-called Bills that the portfolio committee said is already before Parliament, they are not before Parliament.
That Bill has ... [Inaudible.] ... them. It is a sign of proactiveness, and it shows that the members of the portfolio committee need to not leave such a legacy behind. They will be remembered for their default in this matter.
So, thank you very much, hon Schreiber, for throwing a lifeline to South Africa. Thank you, House Chairperson.
Ms M T KIBI: Hon House Chairperson of the session, to the hon Deputy President, Ministers, the hon members...
Sesotho:
Mof M T KIBI: Ho baahi ba Afrika Borwa, letsatsing lena la kajeno ke batla ho le hopotsa hore le se ke la mamela le ho iswa tahlehong ke batho ba tla tla ba ema mona ba tshela metsi dinthong tsohle tse ntle tse etswang ke mokgatlo wa ANC ho fetola maphelo a lona.
E ne e le maoba mona ha DA e nka Western Cape. Bontate Mgoqi ba ne ba etsa mosebetsi o motle ebile ba na le mangolo a mesebetsi ena empa aba ile ba bantsha. Na e ne e se yona Cadre Deployment eo?
Nakong e fitileng, ka mmuso wa National Party, o ne o okamelwa ke motho ya se nang mangolo empa wena o ena le matrike kapa ho feta. Ha re se keng ra lahlehiswa. Ba ema hobane ba batla divoutu tsa lona mme le se ke la dumela. Ke ANC feela e ka fetolang maphelo a lona.
English:
Ms M T KIBI: Hon House Chair, the ANC in the Sixth Administration has prioritized building a capable and ethical developmental state as the number one priority. This is so because various developmental studies and experiences of nations which grew their economy and addressed poverty and unemployment used the capability and capacity of the state to drive economic development and meet their national development objectives.
The Department of Public Service and Administration is currently in the process of the implementation of the professionalisation framework. The professionalisation framework is critical in ensuring the Public Service has sufficient systems for developing mobility and retaining critical skills within the public sector.
The DA has sponsored a Private Member’s Bill whose intention is to address various aspects which the department has already finalised an Amendment Bill on. As the ANC, we do not support the Amendment Bill as proposed by the DA. Firstly, it sought to be pre-emptive on proposals and amendments the department has to table and various public admissions have highlighted this weakness in the approach of the DA. Secondly, we do not
support the policy orientation of the DA on its proposed amendments, such as the parameters of the limitations of political office bearers from employment in the public service, which takes a blanket approach than focus on key senior public service roads. The amendments, as proposed by the DA will border on the rights of individuals.
Thirdly, on the prohibition of special service benefits for the directors general and heads of departments who get dismissed, general prohibition does not take into consideration the different factors which can necessitate a negotiated benefit. The point is that context matters.
Fourthly, the proposed amendments related to the Public Service Commission also relates to matters which the commission is already undertaking a view of legislation to develop a Public Service Commission Bill which will address some of the matters identified in the Private Member’s Bill.
Though we differ with the DA on its interpretation of how a merit-based system should be factored in. And in other areas the Member’s Bill from state matters which the Constitution and various legislation already prescribed.
Lastly, our observation is that the politicalisation of required interventions such as the distortions on cadre development have resulted in the DA’s Member’s Bill having a narrow interpretation of cadre development, which they apply its essence with the government. As the ANC, our cadre deployment policy is a critical instrument to ensure that the organisation applies itself to the type of public servants and representatives that the ANC will support where such parameters do to exist.
A critical consideration that society is not informed of is the fact that in all states which political parties are elected as governing parties, significant changes within the administration are done and appointment of senior officials beyond the requirements of the job executive authorities as assesses the orientation of the said candidate and they assess whether such candidates understand the plan of the governing party and the objectives of that administration term.
We should not vulgarise cadre deployment as if it is all illegal practice, but it is an instrument of a governing party to yield its power within the parameters of the law. Having considered the Member’s Bill by hon Schreiber, we have taken a decision not to support the Bill, as it does not meet our
desirability standards and it duplicates some amendments tabled by the department.
We are already at an advanced stage in the portfolio committee on the consideration of the Public Service Amendment Bill and the Public Administration Management Bill. We have received written submissions which thus far indicates overwhelming support for the various clauses. What the DA’s Members Bill falls short of is the devolution of powers from the executive authority to the administrative authority and various sections to enhance.
This will enhance accountability and reduce instances of the abuse of the executive authority through empowering the administrative authority, which is critical. Public sector organisations support the Amendment Bill by the department. This demonstrates the commitment of the ANC to ensuring that we build a capable and ethical developmental state which will ensure that we transform the socioeconomic conditions of our people and deliver timeously services.
We support this report on the understanding of the DA’s Private Member’s Bill. I think this is time that we [Interjection.] ... we are in government. [Time expired.]
IsiXhosa:
UMBHEXESHI OYINTLOKO WEQELA ELILAWULAYO: Enkosi Sihlalo [Thank
you Chair.] House Chair, we move for the adoption of this report. Thank you.
An HON MEMBER: Are you real?
IsiXhosa:
UMBHEXESHI OYINTLOKO WEQELA ELILAWULAYO: Ewe [Yes] really, I
am saying so.
Division demanded.
The House Divided: [Take in from minutes.]
Question agreed to.
Report accordingly adopted.
PUBLIC ADMINISTRATION LAWS GENERAL AMENDMENT BILL
(Second Reading Debate)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): As there is no list of speakers, I will now put the question. Are there any objections to the Bill not being read a second time as recommended by the committee?
Bill not read a second time.
[Take in from minutes.]
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, LAND REFORM AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT ON ANIMALS’ PROTECTION AMENDMENT BILL
Mr Z M D MANDELA: Hon Chairperson ...
IsiXhosa:
... molweni ...
Setswana:
... dumelang ...
Afrikaans:
... goeie middag ...
English:
... good afternoon, hon members. I am reminded of the late Comrade Dullah Omar, may his soul rest in peace, who was fond of saying, I quote, “we should not introduce legislation for what we already have powers to do.” I want to add to that bit of wisdom form that we should not introduce amendments that have little relevance, may in fact, have negative consequences or impact our already limited resources. The sarcastic amongst us may even venture to say, don’t keep this House busy when you don’t have better things to do.
Chairperson, having said that, I want to thank and acknowledge hon Swart for giving expression to an important right in this august House, namely, the right of introducing Private Members Bills or, more correctly, Individual Members’ Legislative Proposals. This too, is an expression of democracy at work, and reflects the health and functioning of our constitutional democracy. Hon members, where the need arises and when such Private Members’ Bill, in fact, do contribute positively and constructively, it is highly welcomed and worthy of support by all in this House.
Our primary task as public representatives is to ensure that we apply best endeavours to be the voices of the people,
prioritising what affects them, addressing their needs and being the custodians of their constitutional rights, especially, as enshrined in the Bill of Rights. With respect to the proposed Animal Protection Amendment Bill and rejecting the motion of desirability, it was highlighted that there is no need for the Bill since the member who sponsored the Bill and some of the submissions in support of the Bill, including the departments that gave inputs, highlighted that there is no testing of cosmetics on the animals that is taking place in the Republic of South Africa.
Committee members were of the view that the Bill narrowly focused on testing on cosmetics on animals within the borders of the Republic of South Africa, without taking into consideration the impact of imported cosmetics or ingredients that are used in cosmetics, as it was reported to add that 90% of ingredients used in the manufacturing of cosmetics in the country are imported. It was mentioned that in a resource- constrained countries such as ours, the objects of the Bill may not provide the significant benefits to the country, but a negative impact on employment in the local cosmetics industry and its development, as well as international trade.
Further, in light of the numerous issues, including advances in animal welfare that have been highlighted through some of the submissions on the Bill and the need for a holistic approach to animal welfare, instead of piecemeal amendments to an outdated piece of legislation, it was emphasised, including the development of Comprehensive Animal Welfare Bill that will address all aspects of animal welfare. The Minister can develop regulations under section 10 of the Animal Protection Act, Act No 71 of 1962, addresses the testing of cosmetics on animal, whilst comprehensive legislation is being developed.
We have come a long way since the labelling of fellow humans as animals, even though the rights of animals were not even accorded to some of us. Madiba reminded us, when he said, I quote, “although Verwoerd thought Africans were lower than animals, his death did not yield us any pleasure. Political assassination is not something I or the ANC ever supported, it is a primitive way of contending with an opponent.” We are opposed to primitive ways of dealing with friends or foes, be they human or animal.
On the contrary, we have, over the past sessions of Parliament laid down a right based paradigm to protect the most vulnerable and all who live in the country. Perhaps, it is
fitting to draw attention to all the world class and progressive legislation tabled in this august House, especially, on environmental protection, to preserve the good that we have inherited for posterity.
We look forward, hon members, to work comprehensively with all in this House, developing a comprehensive Animal Welfare Bill to achieve the same. Thank you. [Interjections.] [Time expired.]
Declarations of Vote:
Ms T M MBABAMA: House Chair, the Portfolio Committee on Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development has closely examined the Animal Protection Amendment Bill. This Private Member’s Bill referred to the committee on 27 January 2021, originated from hon Swarts pre-emptive intent to redefine nine cosmetics within the Bill and to introduce a new offence pertaining to the testing of cosmetics or their ingredients on animals. From the outset, the DA had no reservations about the Bill’s intent.
However, the inadequacies in the presentations by the various departments revealed a lack of commitment from the ANC government. Subsequently, the ANC members of the portfolio
committee, including, Minister Thoko Didiza, echoed this sentiment. Despite inputs from the Department of Health and the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition, it was clear that the DA concerns were not adequately addressed, maybe purposefully so.
We were assured of written answers to our questions, but this commitment has yet to be fulfilled. Miss Sinah Mosehla, Director of Cosmetics at the Department of Trade Industry and Competition noted that, a cosmetic regulation developed by the Department of Health hadn’t been enforced since 2017 because of staffing shortages. She questioned the department’s capacity to implement the new Bill, given these ongoing challenges and the introduction of new legislation in the cosmetics sector.
While the DA acknowledges the pressing issue of animal cosmetic testing, we also consider outstanding in the global trade community before passing the desirability of this Bill, it is vital to address all concerns related to international trade. Specifically, we sought clarity on our engagements with countries that have already banned animal cosmetic testing. We have expressed the imminent need to address potential trade imbalances.
Moreover, the proposed amendment does not stipulate that the countries that are supplying cosmetic tested on animals should comply with South African law once they are enacted, which could become crucial in the socioeconomic impact, like the DA. Both the Department of Health and the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition recognises the grave consequences of animal cosmetic testing. The crux of the matter is the potential technical barriers this presents in global trade.
While there is a worldwide agreement that animal welfare is important, we need to figure out how quickly we can address this issue, using legal examples from other countries, but without harming our position in global trade. Moreover, the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition’s presentations failed to mitigate the committee’s apprehensions regarding potential imbalances resulting from the Bill. House Chairperson, despite assurances from the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition, the committee has yet to receive the promised written responses.
These responses were expected to provide examples of case law from other countries, a list of countries that utilise animal testing for cosmetics and currently export them with trucks to South Africa, and an in-depth report on potential technical
trade barriers issues. These concerns lead us back to the broader scope of the Animal Welfare Bill. Shouldn’t the committee prioritise animal welfare as a foundational principle to address these challenges? However, despite the pressing need for amendment or repeal of the Animal Protection Bill, the Animal Welfare Bill has languished for a decade.
While the DA recognises the urgency of finalising this pivotal Bill, the current fragmented approach, coupled with unanswered critical questions, forced us to abstain from voting on the Bill’s desirability, especially, given the absence of the promised written responses. Thank you.
Mr N S MATIASE: Hon Chair this Bill was introduced by hon Swart, a man whose passion for animal welfare and animal protection can only be paralleled by the biblical Noah, the man who created the ark and administered animals, two-by-two and those who came in crowds he said, no, you've got no space, guys, please get only two amongst yourselves. This Bill was introduced to prohibit the use and testing of animals for cosmetic purposes.
The committee decided that the Bill was not desirable at the moment because it narrowly focuses on resolving a problem that
does not exist according to the ANC and that a more suitable proposition is that of an alternative Bill in the form of the Animal Welfare Bill that shall look at the protection of animals more comprehensively. We are not in opposition to this proposition, however, we want to caution that in these committees that we have had these discussions, the majority party has always sought to stifle members from introducing Bills such as this one. For this reason, the majority of the Bills that are passed by the House are Bills introduced by the executive and not by committees or members themselves and we take courage from hon Swart by being brave and bringing this Bill before the committee. We also want to encourage members not to be confined by narrow religious beliefs when introducing Bills.
The solutions we provide must be comprehensive benefit society and go beyond the narrow definitions of religious beliefs.
Nonetheless, the need exists that animals must be protected in the form of the Animal Welfare Bill. For this reason, hon Chair, we as the EFF support the report. Thank you so much.
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon House Chairperson, I am on here on behalf of hon Inkosi Cebekhulu, at the outset one would like to start by stating that the IFP appreciates the Animal Protection
Amendment Bill is progressive and proactive in intent, considering that we often see the government take a more reactive approach to legislative amendments. However, as we have stated during the committee meeting in the way the Amendment Bill is currently drafted, its intent might be on the prevention of testing cosmetics on animals, but it will extend to the medical field where animals are used for the testing of medicines that have the ability to heed and extend the lives of human beings.
One would not want to enter into the debate about whose life is more important, however, one solely wants to focus their attention on the impact of this Bill in its current form. One is reminded of the period during the peak of the COVID-19 pandemic when every country across the world was awaiting the release of vaccines during this time, it was the vaccine trials performed on animals by the world's major pharmaceutical companies that gave us the much-needed assurance that the vaccines were safe for human consumption. Therefore, animals play a vital role in the field of medicine. Therefore, we need to ensure that the role and function of the Animal Ethics Committee conform to the SA National Standard for the Care and Use of Animals for Scientific Purposes, which
was developed and published in 2008 by the SA Bureau of Standards.
This standard aims to ensure the ethical and humane care of animals used for scientific purposes and encompasses all aspects of care. The IFP wants to echo the sentiments of the report that there is a need for a holistic approach to animal welfare instead of fragmented amendments to an outdated piece of legislation. Therefore, the IFP supports this report. I thank you.
Ms T BREEDT: House Chair, I am disappointed that the portfolio committee rejected the Private Members Amendment Bill on Animal Protection to ban cosmetic testing in animals, even though cosmetic testing is not done on animals in South Africa, institutionalising the principle would have been a step in the right direction for the formal preventative protection of animals. It would have also brought South Africa in line with international norms and standards like those of the European Union, the United Kingdom, certain American states, India Taiwan, China and more.
At present, South Africa has an E-score on the International Animal Protection Index. This scale scores countries from A,
which is the best to G, the worst. A preventative piece of legislation like this would have had no financial impact on any organisation and it would only have offered benefits.
South Africa currently ranks number 26 on the International List of Animal Rights, and adopting this Amendment Bill would surely have improved this ranking. It would also not have had financial implications on the government, seeing as there are already existing structures and organisations in place that look after the wellbeing of animals. Even though the amendment only has benefits, it was met with strong opposition from the department and the committee and general agricultural matters like vaccines against diseases and even the exportation of milk were held up as excuses. There were attempts to narrow the definition of cosmetics and it was even argued that it could jeopardise job opportunities in the future. It is simply not true. Parliament received a total of 2 383 public submissions on the Amendment Bill, including from organisations like Beauty Without Cruelty, animal welfare organisations and other interested parties.
Of the submissions, 1 311 supported the Bill while 1 052 pleaded for even greater protection of animals and a mere seven objections were received and those related to technical aspects of the Bill. Motivated by regulatory changes across
the world, research and technology to replace animal testing in the cosmetics industry with alternative non-animal testing methods is becoming the accepted norm. However, the ANC has cultivated an environment in South Africa where neither human nor animal rights mean very much, and this serves as proof. By adopting this Amendment Bill, the committee could have set an example for Parliament and the country of a government that prices good values and norms arms, but sadly, it opted not to do so.
A society’s value system can easily be measured by the actions it takes to protect those who do not have a voice of their own. This includes people in need, animals and the environment. The incumbent government has demonstrated time and again that this is not what they are doing. I thank you.
Mr S N SWART: House Chair, today is a very sad day in Parliament for ... [Inaudible.] We have missed the opportunity of passing the desirability of a very harmless Bill to protect vulnerable animals from great cruelty. The ACDP's Animals Protection Amendment Bill is very narrow. It proactively seeks to ban the practice of cosmetic testing on animals, which is cruel and unnecessary, and this would be in line with global trends.
It is pre-emptive as there is no cosmetic testing on animals in South Africa. It specifically excludes medical research testing, hence there would be no impact on jobs or imports of cosmetic products, even those tested on animals in other countries. It does not affect them, but when one looks at global trends, you'll see that there is a formulation of products companies can choose from 7 000 ingredients that have already been proven safe. We could increase exports to more than 40 countries that have such a ban in place. Let's quickly look at what does it entail.
Animal tests include rubbing substances into ... [Inaudible.]
... backs, dripping substances in their eyes, painting substances in their ears, other tests, forced inhalation, forced feeding, causing illness and death. If these animals do not die during the testing, they are subsequently killed, which is very cruel. No wonder many countries are banning this, including our new best friends, Brazil, India and China. How can the banning of this be declared undesirable at this early stage? It is shocking. We could have then gone and looked into all the issues that the parties have raised.
If we had passed the desirability of this Bill we would send a very powerful message that this would never be tolerated in
South Africa. A culture of caring and protecting animals has significant benefits for the wellbeing of society. Indeed, studies have shown that efforts to reduce cruelty to animals are likely to reduce interpersonal violence in communities. This desirability of this Bill would be a benefit to our communities ravaged by high levels of gender-based violence, and sadly, South Africa at the moment scores an E on the World Animal Protection Index. This Bill would have improved our showing.
At least the committee did recognise the need for a holistic approach to the legislation and I trust, hon Minister, that you look carefully at this issue and look at regulating the cosmetic testing of animals. You can do that. You have got that power. The department said, at least let these efforts and all those thousands of public submissions have some bearing. Lastly, I would like to thank hon Toni Brockhoven of Beauty without Cruelty, who is in this House, who has fought this issue for so long and for all those thousands of people who made public submissions. I don't understand why the DA and other parties opposed the desirability of such a desirable Bill. The ACDP will not support this report. I thank you.
Mr M G E HENDRICKS: House Chair, thank you very much, Al Jama- ah does not support this report and it is unrevolutionary to say that the well-thought-out proposals of the ACDP are undesirable. When you need our prayers at major events of the country to bless the President to bring about peace, you run to the religions and the religious parties but when we give good advice in Parliament you call that undesirable. That is an insult to the liberation movement and Al Jama-ah rejects this report with the contempt it deserves it.
However, there is some hope that the study group that made this recommendation of the ANC has said there should be a more comprehensive Bill and we hope that when that happens the
well-thought-out clauses that hon Swart spent nearly a lifetime on will be included. There is a last-minute appeal to the members of the ANC to be revolutionary for a change when we vote to reject the report. Thank you very much.
Ms B TSHWETE: Hon Chairperson, His Excellency Deputy President, Chief Whip of the Majority Party, Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members ...
IsiXhosa:
... ndiyanibulisa ngale njikalanga.
English:
The ANC rejects the motion of desirability of this Bill and supports the committee recommendations on the report. Our reasons are very clear, there is no gap in the current legislation since the department highlighted that there is no testing of cosmetics on animals that is taking place in South Africa. So, we can’t be pre-emptive. We rather focus on resources which are human and material on the current issue that needs our attention. For an example, animal diseases that affect our international trade.
The Bill narrowly focuses on testing of cosmetics on animals within the border of the Republic of South Africa without taking into consideration the impact of imported cosmetics. Ninety per cent of ingredients used in the manufacturing of cosmetics in the country are imported. The amendment may therefore not achieve its intended purpose if it does not cover imported products as well. A ban limited to testing in South Africa may disadvantage local businesses, whereas allowing multinationals to import similar products into the country without any restriction on animal testing.
House Chair, we therefore believe that the objects of the Bill may not provide significant benefits to the country, but a
negative impact on employment in the local cosmetic industry and its development as well as on international trade. In terms of the Animal Protection Index, the World Animal Protection Organization which has its own standards in which it evaluates animal welfare, has awarded South Africa a score of E on a scale of A to G. The index penalised the country because the definition of animal sentience is not explicit, even though the Animal Protection Act covers aspects of animal sentience in the context. That is why as the ANC we agree with submissions that says, there is a need for a holistic approach to animal welfare, instead of a piecemeal amendment to an outdated piece of legislation, so that such definitions could be corrected to improve the protection index rating.
The Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development has adopted some advisory statements including that, where complete ban on the use of animals to testing cosmetics is not possible, alternatives should be considered including strengthening the legal requirements for cosmetic safety and encourage the manufacturers to consider alternative methods for testing of cosmetics, because these products must be safe when used on humans.
Before approval is given to use whole animals, which mostly are laboratory animals for testing of cosmetics, there should be evidence that consideration to other alternative methods has taken place. These methods may include and are not limited to nanotechnology, face contaminants and safety assessment.
Hon members, we reiterate that South Africa has no challenge. We don’t test cosmetics on animals. As for now, the Minister can develop regulations under Section 10 of the Animal Protection Act, Act 71 of 1962 to address the testing of cosmetics on animals, while the comprehensive legislation is being developed.
IsiXhosa:
Siyanicela ke bantu bakuthi, musani ukukhawulela iinkomo zisiya kusela. Lindani kuba uMphathiswa uwubambile umcimbi. Asinangxaki apha ekhaya kwaye asivavanyi zinto kwizilwanyana. Musani ukuthatha izinto zasebumelwaneni nizenze ezethu.
English:
I thank you.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chair, I move that the House adopts this report. Thank you.
Question put that the report be adopted.
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus, African Christian Democratic Party and Al Jama-ah dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
ANIMALS PROTECTION AMENDMENT BILL
(Second Reading debate)
Question put.
There was no debate.
Bill not read a second time. (Democratic Alliance, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).
CONSIDERATION OF THIRD REQUEST FOR PERMISSION IN TERMS OF RULE 286(4)(B) TO INQUIRE INTO EXTENDING THE SUBJECT OF CANNABIS FOR PRIVATE PURPOSES BILL
Question put.
There was no debate.
Permission granted to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Correctional Services to inquire into extending the subject of Cannabis for Private Purposes Bill in terms of Rule 286(4)(b) (Al Jama-ah dissenting).
CONSIDERATION OF SECOND REPORT OF NATIONAL ASSEMBLY RULES COMMITTEE ON PARTY FUNDING AND OVERSIGHT OF ELECTRICITY PORTFOLIO
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House
Chairperson, hon His Excellency the Deputy President, hon Ministers, and hon members, I greet you all. On 12 September, the National Assembly Rules Committee met to consider several issues: firstly, members will know that the President has established a new Ministry of Electricity. This was an important measure to plan and co-ordinate the government’s response to the power crisis. At the same time, Parliament had to decide how best to oversee the new Ministry. The Rules Committee has agreed that the Ministry should fall within the remit of the Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises. This is because the committee already possesses considerable
expertise and experience in the sector. Parliamentary scrutiny can certainly contribute to end load shedding.
Secondly, I should also report that as part of the ongoing efforts to improve parliamentary oversight, the Rules Committee considered the need for Rules to complement the Money Bills and Related Matters Act, as well as procedures to regulate petitions and pursue government undertakings in the House. These matters have been duly referred to the Subcommittee on the Review of the Rules. The development of these Rules will create new avenues for committees, members, and the public to influence Parliament’s proceedings. We must welcome these initiatives and I would encourage parties to prepare for the pursuant deliberations.
Hon House Chairperson, the last matter, which was considered by the Rules Committee concerned rules to regulate funding for represented political parties. The Constitution provides for different types and sources of funding as one such source, Parliament itself provides for the funding in terms of the Financial Management of Parliament and Provincial Legislatures Act. Up until now this has been done in accordance with the policy. Section 57(2)(c) of the Constitution, however, stipulates that, and I quote:
57. (2) The rules and orders of the National Assembly must provide for –
(c) financial and administrative assistance to each party represented in the National Assembly in proportion to its representation, to enable the party and its leader to perform their functions in the Assembly effectively.
The Assembly does not currently have a Rule for this purpose. The Rules Committee therefore recommended that the House adopt a Rule to comply with the Constitution. I should stress that this is a technical amendment and will not have a direct impact on the current allocation. Rather, the Rule will clarify the process to be followed.
Hon House Chairperson, in conclusion, I am confident that the House will support the recommendation of the Rules Committee. The report again highlights that Parliament is at work to improve its procedures and systems to strengthen its status and efficacy as a separate arm of the state and enable the exercise of its constitutional duties. I thank you, hon House Chair.
Declaration of votes:
Dr A LOTRIET: This report dealt with a few matters as has already been said, the one concerning party funding, and it is quite correct that the Rules are now adjusted so that we can also make provision for that in our Rules.
However, Chairperson the second matter that I would like to talk to is the Minister of Electricity. When the Minister of Electricity or the portfolio was announced by the President, immediately the DA said that there should be a specific portfolio committee to exercise oversight. The Minister was appointed but no committee. What then happened was that the whole Minister was allocated to a cluster for oral questions and other questions, but that is some progress, but it is still not what we need.
What we now have is a whole Minister of Electricity being allocated to another Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises. Now, that could be a bit more of a step in the right direction. But Chairperson, the reality in our country is that the single, most-biggest problem that we have to face that cuts through to our everyday lives on every facet is, electricity or the absolute lack thereof. This is the one portfolio that we need oversight, that we need accountability.
Well just to give you an idea, Chairperson, today it is said that load shedding is going to have a new record in mid- October, the country would have been without power for double the amount of time as in the whole of 2022. So, we’re not going anywhere. So, we can pat ourselves on the shoulder and say well, at least now this Minister will have oversight and has to account to the Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises, but things aren’t happening. It’s getting worse and we also have to ask: If it is now part of another portfolio committee? What will be the extent of the oversight, how many times will that portfolio committee focus on the work of that particular Minister or will it just disappear within the rest of all the other state-owned entities, SOE?
So, Chairperson although we support this move, we have to also alert and provide our concerns in terms of this move. What we need is a specific portfolio committee for the Ministry of Electricity, because, as I said, this is the single biggest problem facing our country and our future. Thank you.
Dr S S THEMBEKWAYO: Let me take it, Chair. Chairperson, we are presented with the second Report of the National Assembly Rules Committee on Rule on Party Funding and Oversight of Electricity portfolio. As the Economic Freedom Fighters, we
welcome the insertion of 266 (a) to address the issue of financial and administrative assistance for political parties. The reality is that for far too long our democracy has been stifled because of the incorrect funding model for political parties represented here in Parliament. This is because we rely on the executive to introduce legislation and amendments. They will not finance political parties to enhance democracy, as they do not wish to be held accountable.
We, Parliament, are Responsible for the appropriation of all funds from the National Revenue Fund. Yet, we behave as if we are dependent on the National Treasury. This dependence must come to an end. The EFF rejects the decision of the committee to not have a new Portfolio Committee for Oversight of Electricity. Instead, it will fall under the Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises. Given the fact that the Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises is already overwhelmed with the task of overseeing struggling entities, this decision appears misguided.
Furthermore, the Minister who is expected to be accountable to this committee does not take it seriously. As the EFF, we have written to the Speaker to emphasise the need for proper oversight over many of the Ministers and commissions that Mr
Cyril Ramaphosa is establishing in the Presidency, among them, the electricity portfolio is significant. We believe there should be a separate committee to address the crisis of electricity. It seems irrational for the ANC to initially reject a recommendation to establish an ad hoc committee to address the electricity crisis and now also reject a standard committee. It is clear that the ANC does not treat this matter with the gravity it deserves. To them, it does not appear to be a crisis. Perhaps this is because they have used taxpayers’ money to equip their residences with backup batteries and solar panels. I thank you, Chair.
Mr M HLENGWA: Thank you very much, hon House Chair, in protecting, promoting, and enhancing multiparty democracy in the Republic, the Constitution mandates that national legislation must provide for the funding of political parties participating in national and provincial legislatures on an equitable and proportional basis. This is supported through different types of funding regimes for political parties represented in Parliament, which is executed through different legislations such as the Financial Management of Parliament and Provincial Legislatures Act and the Party-Political Funding Act.
Hon members, as diverse as we are in values, ideologies, and political affiliations, we can all concede that not only is politics in extremely volatile exercise, but it is an expensive one as well. One that unfortunately cannot thrive without extensive and consistent funding, and our laws recognise this. In fact, the Constitution once more, in section 57 (2) reads that the Rules and orders of the National Assembly must provide for financial administrative assistance to each party represented in the Assembly in proportion to its representation to enable the party and its leader to perform their functions in the Assembly effectively. Currently, there is a vacuum pertaining to this provision. We therefore cannot afford to have a National Assembly that does not action constitutional provisions. Not only does this speak to the arrogance of this government, but it is also serving as proof of its incompetence and lack of respect for the rule of law.
It is completely and utterly unacceptable that Parliament funds political parties in what merely seems like an extension of an afterthought.
As the IFP, we strongly believe that it is imperative that the National Assembly adopts the new Rule 266(a), this will ensure that the House remains consistent with our legislation and caters for the differing yet common funding challenges that
political parties face throughout the spectrum. If ever there was any acknowledgement that the Ministry of Electricity should not have been established, it is the fact that now it is an afterthought in that Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises.
IsiZulu:
Babeyicuphisa nje bayakhela umjondolo khona.
English:
Instead, of course, we do understand that at the same time we are opposed to the establishment and the bloated extension of government, particularly the Presidency. So, maybe in one hand there is a sense in the fact that placed somewhere temporarily because it is a temporary intervention.
It is for this reason that we believe that the assignment of a new portfolio committee would have been irrational as the assignment of a new department and might even be counterproductive as it could potentially pose a delay to the real work ahead of the electricity portfolio if there is any work. The IFP supports both of these reports. I thank you, Chair.
Mr W W WESSELS: Thank you, House Chairperson, the ANC government announced that they have the solution to load shedding and that they will solve the electricity crisis by creating a new Ministry. We all said it is ridiculous, but why is the solution to create a new Ministry but then not that this Parliament, the legislative arm, does oversight over that portfolio. Why does this ANC members in this House not want to do oversight? Why do you want to sit back and just accept what the executive does? You do not understand the checks and balances built into our constitutional democracy. We saw it last week with Private Member’s Bills where you say you would rather not amend legislation. You will have the executive have its secondary legislative mandate and do it with that. We saw it now with the Animal Protection Amendment Bill where you say the Minister must make regulations, instead of this legislature doing what it is supposed to do and the same with this portfolio committee. But at the end of the day, I do agree with the IFP that this is temporary because the solution is not in a new Ministry, the solution is to get rid of the ANC government. That is the only solution to the electricity crisis. But if you say, hon Chairperson, if you say that there is a budget shortage, that is the reason why we can’t create other portfolio committees and that they should rather account to a portfolio committee that is already overburdened, then
the solution is also easy, hon Chief Whip, the solution is easy, go overseas less in the interests of the people out there, cut the catering that people eat here and do oversight in the interest of the people. That is where the money is.
There is no shortage of budget, but even if there is an establishment of a new portfolio committee, the problem is that the ANC majority in this House does not take their oversight role seriously, and that is your failure, Chief Whip. I thank you.
Mr S N SWART: No declaration.
Mr Q R DYANTYI: House Chair, on 25 April 2023 the National Assembly Rules Committee held an important meeting where we engaged on a number of critical issues arising from both the executive and judiciary. The appointment of a Minister of Electricity has proven both correct in terms of principle and application in dealing with the challenges of power supply and load shedding. Once the appointment had been made, the matter for the ANC of accountability and reporting lines had to be addressed in the context of the nature and character of the appointment. It was no ordinary appointment, but a very specific one.
The President’s announcement on 6 May 2023, when he announced a Minister of Electricity, was made in the context that just over a year remained in the term of the sixth administration and that changes of the executive should not be just an overhaul. The Minister of Electricity is tasked to deal with the immediate crisis of load shedding, a crisis that was addressed in the February state of the nation address that our most immediate task is to dramatically reduce the severity of load shedding during 2023-24. The Minister of Electricity focus on the full and urgent implementation of the Energy Action Plan, and that has been agreed between government, Eskom and other stakeholders.
The primary task of the Minister of Electricity is to significantly reduce the severity and frequency of load shedding as a matter of urgency and effectively oversee the electricity crisis response. The Minister has political responsibility, authority and control over all critical aspects of the Energy Action Plan. So, in this context it makes the Minister of Electricity different from other Ministers. By way of structure it is very different and it has no department unlike other Ministers. It has no staff unlike other departments, instead it makes use of the personnel in the Presidency who are part of the National Electricity Crisis
Committee. By way of budget it is very different; it has no budget and relies on administrative budget of the Presidency Vote No 1. It does not have a strategic five-year plan, but rather it has an immediate programme over the next two years - very short term in nature. It does not have an annual performance plan like all other departments, but it is a programme within the Presidency.
With regard to accountability and the Auditor-General’s input to the National Assembly Rules Committee meeting provided, this Minister of Electricity’s accountability takes place under the state of the nation address. Quarterly questions to the President, quarterly questions to the Deputy President, regular reports from the Presidency, the debate on Vote No 1 in terms of the Budget Vote, further in respect of the stand- alone accounting from the Ministry of Electricity, he answers questions once a quarter under the economic cluster of Ministers as well as debates and ministerial statement that he issued.
In addition, on a weekly basis, more than any other Minister, he accounts to the nation on the progress - talk of oversight, there you have it. In summary, there are no less than seven points of accountability that takes place in Parliament to
account for the programme that the Minister of Electricity has responsibility under the Presidency. Of course the DA, realising it had been outmaneuvered, hastily nine days later after the National Assembly Rules Committee said no to establishing a portfolio committee for the Ministry of Electricity in a mini plenary on 4 May, tabled a motion for debate on the establishment of the ad hoc committee. They still want this even though all of the evidence that I have highlighted above and the progress on maintenance, restoration of sources, power sourcing, external additional power supply and all of that. Besides that, they still just want an ad hoc committee just to be in love with an ad hoc committee. We don’t have worked for their love for an ad hoc committee.
Correctly, the National Assembly committee said no, as outlined in the report tabled today. In saying no, the ANC argued, using evidence-based facts, that our philosophy of accountability, as supported by the Rules - as opposed to a narrative of nonaccountability, is just a mere wanting of an ad hoc committee.
Finally, on the matter of the Rules for party funding, we have over the years operated within the provisions of the Financial Management of Parliament and Provisional Legislatures Act and a Political Party Funding Act, but without the Rules of the
National Assembly to provide financial and administrative assistance to each party represented in the National Assembly in proportion to its own strength. The new draft Rules addresses this and includes the category of independent candidates.
The EFF comes in the House being absent together with the FF Plus in the Rules Committee ... You would have been more engaged and more exposed in terms of this discussion because the matters you are raising here were engaged fully in our Rules Committee and therefore we cannot really be entertaining your absence in terms of these kinds of issues. As of oversight, the ANC leads in the oversight in this Sixth Parliament. Every committee that you have, if the ANC would not be there, there virtually would not be any oversight. And I say this being part of a number of committees where we are able to see and demonstrate that the ANC supports this report. Thank you, Chairperson.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chair, I move that the House adopts this report. Thank you.
Report agreed to.
Debate concluded.
House adjourned at 17:15