Hansard: NA: Mini-Plenary 3
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 15 Sep 2023
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Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
MINI PLENARY 3 - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY (VIRTUAL) FRIDAY, 15 SEPTEMBER 2023
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Watch video here: NA: Mini-Plenary 3
The mini-plenary session met on the virtual platform at 10:00.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma) took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation. The Acting Chairperson announced that the virtual mini-plenary sitting constituted a meeting of the National Assembly.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES ON OVERSIGHT VISITS TO EASTERN CAPE, LIMPOPO AND FREE STATE PROVINCES
Mr G MAGWANISHE: Acting House Chairperson, hon Ministers, Deputy Ministers and hon members, between January 2022 and April 2023 the committee embarked on oversight visits in all nine provinces, covering both justice entities and correctional facilities. Oversight visits to the institutions is one of the tools the committee is using to assess the performance of both departments to keep members of the committee abreast with day-to-day operations on the ground. The visits help members to understand the challenges and frustrations of the stakeholders who are in the coalface of service delivery on daily basis and to make appropriate interventions where possible.
The main focus of our visits was largely on infrastructure. Our report sets out in details of each site visit, but the following issues were completely observed: Court buildings were not well maintained and some were even unsafe. Some of our correctional centres are indeed in a very old dilapidated and need major upgrades, especially town youth in Barberton. We noted that maintenance appears to be largely reactive, taking place after a problem occurs. Term contracts to ensure that preventative maintenance occurs were not in place. We observed a lack of security at many of the courts. Security equipment was neither lacking or faulty, for example, at many of the courts and correctional facilities we visited, fire extinguishers and sprinklers were not serviced regularly. Some courts were reportedly without electricity and water for lengthy periods, halting court operations and causing delays.
There was a shortage of accommodation at many of the courts, as a result, the cramped conditions affected the ability of officials to do their work. This is especially challenging where privacy is needed when consulting with victims of gender-based violence. At the beginning of May this year, we met with the Chief Justice, Deputy Chief Justice and heads of courts to share our observations and to obtain inputs of the judiciary. During the visits, we asked departments to attend to the issues and report back to us within a specified timeframe.
We also called a meeting late May with stakeholder departments to respond to matters raised during the visit in a holistic manner. We are quite pleased that the Department of Correctional Services is currently implementing successfully the Self Sufficiency and Sustainability Model. Through this model, the department used their own bakery to bake bread for offenders. The Medium B Clinic in Barberton was revamped using offender labour. The committee was impressed with the quality of furniture produced in Boksburg Correctional Centre, which is sold to government departments, including courts in Mpumalanga. The committee would like to encourage departments to place orders for their furniture needs with the Department of Correctional Services.
Towards the end of November this year we will meet again with the Minister of Justice and Correctional Services and Minister of Public Works to review progress made. We would like to thank all officials who every day are trying their level best to serve our people. I move that this report be considered favourably. Thank you,
Mr J ENGELBRECHT: House Chair, during the visit by the Committee to Correctional Services facilities and courts, very similar problems came to the fore at all these facilities. It seems that problems associated with the Department of Public Works and Infrastructure are not isolated to prisons in courts alone. According to the committee’s oversight reports. During the oversight visit, the vast majority of problems, especially those that have been unresolved for an extended period of time, are of a Department of Public Works and Infrastructure nature. Our courts and prisons cannot fulfil their constitutional mandate in a dilapidated state of disrepair.
The magistrates court in ... [Inaudible.] 08:06 – 14:59 is not fit for human occupation. What the committee saw there was shocking. Those people are working in extremely poor conditions. Thanks to the Department of Public Works and Infrastructure. The High Court in Polokwane seems shiny and
impressive from the outside, but it is falling apart on the inside. A brand-new building that cost the taxpayer’s millions almost useless because of shoddy workmanship. Storage facilities for court records is a problem and insufficient office space for prosecutors and magistrates was a recurring theme that seems to go unresolved year in, year out.
The pressure officials experience because of constant understaffing and excessive caseloads is very apparent in community corrections. Lastly sentence remission can only add to their woes. The recent communication from Treasury about cost savings in all departments unfortunately means that this pressure will only increase. The staff shortage at the time of the oversight at the Mangaung Correctional Centre is alarming. The ratio between officials and offenders there was one to 60 and they spent R435,44c per offender per day, which is excessive.
Not all is doom and gloom, though, the self-sufficiency of facilities is increasing in terms of food production and other areas in the Department of Correctional Services, and this is commendable. The DA supports the report. Thank you, Madam House Chair.
Mr T MOGALE: Chairperson, when the committee conducted its oversight visit, it was before the whole drama relating to Thabo Bester and Nandipha Magudumana was blown open. But even before that, the EFF had been consistently raising our discomfort with having two correctional centers run by private companies.
We warned the department about the emergency of the ... [Inaudible.] ... industrial complex in ... [Inaudible.] ... through the in castration of black people in particular for having two ...
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon Mogale, just switch off your video, connectivity is not so good. Much better. You may proceed.
Mr T MOGALE: Chairperson, the corruption that goes on in these centres is beyond mind-boggling. It is nimby. With money one can get away with anything in these centres. They are able to leverage better living conditions from bribing other inmates and correctional services staff.
There is a need for radical overhauling of our correctional facilities because they have become a breeding ground. Almost
all the centres were overpopulated, making it difficult to run proper rehabilitative and correctional programmes at these centres and making violence a daily norm particularly for those who are not affiliated to the prison gangs. Many of these centres such as the one in Makhado has dilapidated buildings and at a rate at which maintenance is ignored at these centres, it is just a matter of time ... [Inaudible.]
... to take place, which may lead to death of thousands.
Very few of these centres engaged the labour of prisoners to do any productive work. We have previously indicated that instead of buying food from outside, correctional centres ought to use inmates to produce their own food in massive pieces of land that it owns. This report does not provide for any tangible intervention to correct all these issues. We therefore, reject this report. Thank you.
Mr S N SWART: Chair, the ACDP welcomes and support this oversight report of this visits. It forms part of a series of oversight visits that the committee undertook during the Sixth Parliament, and of significance, is that it is included for the first time as far as I can remember, an announced visit to the Grootvlei management era - an unannounced visit. Such surprised visit should be conducted more frequently to avoid
the special efforts made to impress parliamentary delegations when notice is given of our visits whilst the true state of affairs remains hidden.
In the case of Grootvlei, the committee was concerned about the old and dilapidated infrastructure, and this could be attributable to poor relation between the department and Public Works, and one trust that these issues might be resolved by now.
The situation, with the number of facilities is deplorable. They have not been maintained or properly repaired. The visit to the then privately-run Mangaung Correctional Services took place in April last year, just prior to the infamous Thabo Bester escape in May, which was brought to light almost a full year later.
While the report states the committee was impressed with the way that centre is being operated, little did it know what has been planned by Mr Bester at the time. The committee also visited the notorious St Albans Correctional Centre. The question arises on how can such a large maximum-security centre not have a backup generator, given the increased hours
of load shedding. One trusts that this has been resolved by now.
The committee also expressed concerns about countrabands, and gangsterism, which is rife in many of the prisons. The ACDP, welcomes the report and trusts that the issues that had been raised as pointed out by the chairperson will be addressed by the relevant authorities. I thank you.
Mr T LOATE: Chair, Cope welcomes the report. It is important for us to indicate that the picture that the report is painting should be much of a concern to us because it points to a failure by Public Works in helping government to maintain government facilities all over the country. At the same time, the public expects that officials within these facilities should be in the position to work at their best so that they can deliver a service that can pay us.
But unfortunately, you can’t expect that a person should operate at the maximum within an environment that is depressing. So, we would edge that some call should be made to Public Works that the failure to provide proper facilities both in our courts and our prisons it’s a failure to have those facilities to serve our people. Therefore, we welcome
what the report portrays, and we would really call upon Public Works to put its act in place. Thank you, Chair.
Mr X NQOLA: Chair, the ANC rises in support the oversight report on the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Correctional Services. The National Development Plan requires, amongst others, that we build safer communities, promote accountability and fight corruption and strengthen judicial governance and the rule of law.
The National Assembly has a constitutional duty as outlined in section 55(2)(b)(i)(ii) of the Constitution to maintain oversight of the national executive and any organ of state.
The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Correctional Services undertook oversight visits to Eastern Cape, Limpopo and Free State province between 19 to 23 April 2022. Two of our focus areas in the oversight visits were rehabilitation and social reintegration.
We are acutely aware of the importance of rehabilitation. After all, it is the core business of the Department of Correctional Services. We are impressed with what we have witnessed at Kutama-Sinthumule Correctional Centre during the
oversight visit and acknowledge the co-operation between the Department of Correctional Services at Kutama-Sinthumule Correctional Centre.
In Mangaung, Chair, we recommended that the management of the centre should take steps to invest in skills development of offenders, entrepreneurship, leadership, and management.
House Chair, this report comes a month before the Thabo Bester saga. At that time, we were impressed with what we have seen. There were developments after the oversight visit. We are impressed with the way the centre is being operated. At the time, it was before a lot has happened. We have experienced some of the skills development, offenders are made to to do a lot of things that were impressive. It was before the notorious escape.
House Chair, we are impressed with the way the centre is being operated at St Albans. We appreciate the operations of the self-sufficiency model. We recommended that there should be an interdepartmental collaboration between the Department of Correctional Services and the Department of Human Settlements to address the issue of informal settlement emerging near the facility at St Albans. It’s one of the issues, House Chair,
that we raised amongst us that part of the challenge of contraband being taken to the correctional centre were as a result of the human settlement coming very close to the correctional centre.
We appreciate the efforts made by the department. We wish to encourage it to follow through on our recommendations and continue contributing positively to the nation. House Chair, the ANC supports the report. Thank you.
OVERSIGHT VISIT TO SELECTED MILITARY BASES AND DEPARTMENT OF MILITARY VETERANS, DMV, HOUSING SITES IN BLOEMFONTEIN AREA FROM 23 – 25 NOVEMBER 2022
Mr V C XABA: Good afternoon colleagues and greetings to Ministers and Deputy Ministers on the platform. Hon Chairperson, thank you very much for the opportunity. The Portfolio Committee on Defence and Military Veterans conducted an oversight visit to selected military basis of the Department of Military Veterans in the Bloemfontein Area.
The area visited included the SA Air Force Base in Bloemspruit, the Department of Defence Mobilisation Centre at Deborah Three Military Hospital, the Tembe Military Base and
the Department of Military Vetarans housing sites in Hillside View.
The primary aim of the visits to these facilities was to equant ourselves on the conditions and challenges experienced at these facilities to gain inside into the lived experience of our soldiers on the ground.
The committee wishes to express its gratitude to the Chief of the National Defence Force. He did not only open up the bases for inspection, but also designated Major General Challies to ensure that he was on the ground and the visit was a success. And also released the Chief of the SA Defence Force to welcome the committee members and accompany them to all identified air force bases.
The committee visited the Bloemspruit Air Force Base if this base provide an attack helicopter capability and an aircrew and ground crew training and air support unit and also support external deployment to the Democratic Republic of Congo and Mozambique and mobilization of deployments.
The report lists the successes and challenges experienced in the base. Its successes are registered in missions abroad.
There are few challenges undermining these successes. Namely and firstly, a lack of a helicopter, fleet serviceability and availability of sparse for operation and training. This impact on training and operation and the courses offered by the helicopter flying school.
The committee also visited the Department of Defence Mobilisation Centre. It is a Ford line in support of landward mobilisation and demobilisation. It is responsible for the Chief Army’s logistical support where housing and preservation of the landward forces prime mission equipment.
The committee was encouraged with the resuscitation of the rail system at the base and the repair and maintenance of our prime mission equipment through the utilization of Operation Thusano. This skill transfer programme is implemented in partnership with the Cuban specialist to help the department re-establish its in-house capability. The programme has seen thousands of army fleet brought into operation.
The committee commended the Department of Defence for establishing its own in-house capability to reduce reliance on the private sector and reduces costs.
The committee was informed of the termination of the contract with the service provider appointed to maintain the environmentally controlled warehouse system, to keep our prime mission equipment operationally ready for immediate deployment. The committee is concerned that our equipment is not kept in pristine condition and that it may not be ready when it is needed. The committee also visited the Three Military Hospital. The hospital is well-kept and it is the pride of the Defence Force.
However, the committee is concerned with regard to some refurbishment projects that appear to be on hold due to funding challenges.
The committee recommends that the Department of Defence reprioritise its budget and ring-fence budget for the funding of infrastructure requirements of this hospital.
The committee also visited the housing site. The committee proceeded to site inspection of the houses awarded to military veterans. It was a mix bag. [Time expired.]
Mr S J F MARAIS: Hon Chairperson, during our visit, we visited Bloemspruit Air Force Base, the mobilisation center at Deborah
Three Military Hospital, Tembe Military Base and the Military Veterans Housing Site in Hillside View. At Bloemspruit Hillside View, we discussed pressing concerns regarding our strategic helicopter readiness and availability with the Chief of the Air Force, Lt Gen Mbambo. Sixteen squadron is the home of our ... [Inaudible.] ... Rooivalk attack helicopter capability. While all helicopter pilots in ground crew are products of 87 helicopter flying school with sir air support unit providing essential maintenance and support also for our external deployments to the Democratic Republic of Congo and Mozambique.
During frank discussions, serious concerns were raised regarding the condition of the base infrastructure, as well as our helicopter readiness and defense capabilities including
...
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon member, you have disappeared.
With that if there is no other member from the DA who wants to fish the sentence, the hon Marais was saying, we continue.
Mr M J MANYI: It is the problem of the renewable energy. It is not consistent.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): No, hon Manyi, you are not recognised. Thank you very much. We can handle this. Hon members, when he is in a good space, he was left with one minute, we will allow him to finish.
Hon members, we will proceed. However, I will now recognise the hon member from the EFF.
I guess we do not have an hon member from the EFF. We shall proceed. I am advised that we do not an hon member from the IFP, UDM, ATM, Good and the AIC. For the completeness of the schedule of the speakers who were submitted I now recognise the EFF which there was no representative, the hon member from the IFP, UDM, ATM, Good, and AIC.
I now recognize the hon member from Cope and I guess hon member you are still on the platform.
Mr T LOATE: Hon Chairperson, you may pass.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Alright. Thank you very much hon member.
I now recognise the hon member from the PAC.
Having no response we shall now proceed and recognize the hon member from the ANC, the hon T N Mmutle. Over to you, Sir.
Mr T N MMUTLE: Hon Chairperson and hon members, the ANC extends its appreciation to the diligent effort of the Portfolio Committee on Defence and Military Veterans during their recent oversight visit to selected military bases and the Department of Military Veterans housing site in the Bloemfontein area. We value the commitment demonstrated by the committee in assessing the conditions and challenges faced by this vital institution and in formulating a thoughtful recommendation to address these challenges.
With regard to Bloemspruit Air Force Base, we shared the committee’s concern about the adverse effect about the ongoing budget cuts, particularly on that military base. It is imperative for the Department of Defence to present well identified budgetary priorities during annual budget deliberations to effectively address these challenges.
The proposed multifaceted approach to mitigate funding constraints, spare parts and equipment maintenance is a prudent and necessary step. We therefore call on that there must be an exception on the Defence budget when it comes to budget cuts as well as austerity measures.
Furthermore, we find the merit in considering the migration of Denel back into the Portfolio on Defence given its indispensable role in supporting the SA National Defence Force. The Department of Defence Mobilisation Centre at Deborah, has encountered challenges related to unserviceable and obsolete vehicle and we fully endorse the committee recommendation on the Department of Defence to conduct a comprehensive assessment of army vehicle requirements. Also to collaborate closely with the National Treasury to address these needs.
It is equally vital to emphasize the significance of effective skills transfer to ensure cost-effective and efficient equipment maintenance.
As the ANC we appreciate the work done by the Cubans, to bring to life some of this army prime mission equipment under Thusano Project.
Turning our attention to the Department of Military Veterans at the Hillside View, we express our deepest concern regarding the irregular housing awards. We recognise the necessity for a joint investigation by the Department of Human Settlements and the Department of Military Veterans. It is of utmost important that the military veterans’ national database is swiftly finalised to serve as a foundation for benefit provision.
We are aware of the Department of Military Veterans challenges in providing housing to military veterans and endorse the committee recommendation to establish realistic annual target following consultation with the Department of Human Settlements.
Chairperson, in conclusion the ANC commends the portfolio committee for their comprehensive oversight visit and the invaluable recommendation took forth to address the challenges faced by this institution. We endorse the proposed action and call upon all the relevant stakeholders to collaborate effectively in implementing these recommendations to enhance the effectiveness and efficiency of our Defence and Military Veterans support system. The ANC unequivocally express its support for the oversight report presented by the portfolio committee. Thank you, Chairperson.
Debate concluded.
OVERSIGHT VISIT TO NORTHERN CAPE AND GAUTENG PROVINCES ON 21 AND 22 MAY 2023
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon members, the Third Order, which is the consideration of the report of the Portfolio Committee on Police on Oversight visit to the Northern Cape and Gauteng provinces on the 21 to 22 May 2023. I now recognise hon A M Seabi. Over to you, hon member. Hon Seabi or any other member that can table the report. May I request the Whips of various political parties do indicate to their members that we are a little bit ahead of time because we have got lesser speakers on these reports, that they will be expected to be on the platform from the beginning to the end and stay on the gadget.
Mr T N MMUTLE: House Chair, we will do that. Thank you, House Chair.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Thank you, hon member.
Mr M MANYI: Maybe you can extend the time for some of us Chair. Thank you.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): [Laughter.] No, hon members, to be fair to other members, you could see that we started at 10 and now it is just after half past 10, so the envisaged time was calculated like that. Probably just for fairness, I will just request one minutes for us to get hon Seabi or else we shall move and proceed with the business of the day because ordinarily members should be on the platform.
Mr A M SEABI: I am here.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Okay. Thank you very much, sir. Over to you. You are recognized hon Seabi, for the report.
Mr A M SEABI: Thank you, Chair. Hon Chairperson, in May this year the Portfolio Committee on Police undertook an oversight visit to the Northern Cape and Gauteng provinces. The committee visited the 3 South African Infantry, SAI Battalion of the SA National Defence Force in Kimberley, where SAPS recruits are being trained, and also visited the Kimberley
Central Police Station to tour the facilities and receive a briefing on the local crime situation in Kimberley.
In the Gauteng province, the committee visited the Tshwane Training Academy and the Central Firearms Register to assess progress made in terms of firearm licence applications. During a tour of the facilities at 3 SAI, the committee noted that the base is more suited and get towards the training of soldiers and that it would have been better to accommodate all trainees at SAPS Training Academy. However, the use of external facilities was unavoidable with the additional intake of police trainees in both 2022 and 2023.
It must be said that our Defence Force is running an impressive operation at 3 SAI and should be commended. The sheer volume and quality of meals being prepared in their kitchens and SAPS in the mass halls are truly remarkable. On behalf of the committee, I wish to once more express our appreciation to the Minister of Defence and Military Veterans, hon Thandi Modise, for accommodating the SAPS trainees at SANDF facilities. As part of our report, the committee recommends that a fully-fledged SAPS training academy should be established in the Northern Cape. This will add enormously
to the economy of the Northern Cape and will bring much-needed stimulus to the Kimberley area.
During the committee’s tour of the Tshwane Training Academic Campus, we were impressed with the facilities and had a very positive engagement with the trainees at their parade ground. The committee addressed trainees with words of encouragement to complete their training and uphold discipline when deployed at police stations countrywide. As part of our report, the committee recommends that more effort should be made to ensure gender and racial parity in recruits and trainees in future years to ensure that all genders and demographic groups are represented in the SAPS.
In Kimberley, the committee noted with great concern the proliferation of illegal liquor outlets and illegal mining activities. These have a significant impact on crime in the area. The impact of alcohol on crime has been well documented. The local municipality has a responsibility to close taverns operating outside approved trading hours. The municipality should further consider the impact of alcohol on crime when considering the approval of tavern licences. The committee recommends that the Minister of Police must engage with his counterpart in the Department of Trade, Industry and
Competition to address the proliferation of taverns and the impact thereof on crime.
The committee noted and expressed its appreciation for the progress made at the Central Firearms Registry to clear the significant backlogs in firearm licence applications that the committee observed during its previous visit in 2021. The committee encourages the department to continue making progress and to ensure that the timeframes and expenditure associated with the digitisation of the CFR are closely monitored and adhered to.
In closing, the committee expresses its gratitude to our hon President for the recruitment of additional police recruits in 2022 and 2023. These young men and women represent the future of the SAPS. The committee wishes the trainees well in their training and future careers in the SAPS. I therefore present this very report before Parliament for consideration. I thank you, Chair.
M.Gen O S TERBLANCE: House Chairperson and hon members, the oversight visit presented to us was necessitated by the numerous complaints we received regarding the standard of both accommodation as well as the poor food quality that students
were subjected to at the Kimberley Training Centre. Currently, the SAPS have to utilise other institutions facilities to accommodate the additional intake of 10 000 recruits in an attempt to counter the ever-increasing crime rate and also to implement the recommendations of both the panel of experts and the Farlam Commission.
The committee furthermore visited the police training college in Pretoria, and it was evident that this was far from ideal, but maybe the best solution under the prevailing circumstances. I am still uncertain with regard to the following: What will be the calibre of these police officers that we are planning to unleash on our streets after their basic training? Will they truly be able to make the difference that we all yearn for, or will it again be a bunch of instant constables, or better known as kitskonstabels that are simply not up to the task? Unfortunately, only time will tell.
The chances of success will depend heavily on the quality of leadership at the helm. We all are aware that the top management in some provinces could allegedly be infiltrated by well-known gangs active in the country. Not at all an encouraging scenario. This must be properly investigated with decisive and appropriate action to follow. Modern policing
requires officers to be properly equipped to successfully execute their tasks and sadly, the SAPS have proven that they are lacking in this field.
The time has come that SAPS to determine all their training requirements and develop state of the art training facilities to pursue professionalisation as an organisation. Recruits we saw on parade consistent predominantly of African males.
However, gender and racial equality and inclusivity should be pursued to portray the SAPS as real representatives from the people for the people, having the entire nation’s interests at heart.
The visit to the Kimberley Central Police Station was an enormous disappointment and urgent intervention is needed. The police station is part of the top 30 stations in the country as it is amongst those with the highest national crime rates. Crime prevention activities or lack thereof are largely ineffective. Detectives cannot cope with the case load and detection and conviction rates paints a grim picture of the fight lost against criminals.
The Central Firearms Register ... [Inaudible.] ... the Central Firearm visit, is still held in the very first building that
was declared unfit for human occupation. It was suggested that steps should be taken to vacate the building as soon as possible as it is a criminal offence to occupy a condemned building. The Telkom Towers has been identified as an alternative to relocate to, but it will take a significant time to finalise necessary alterations before this move can be effective. The Central Firearm Register is still plagued with a range of shortcomings, but some progress has been made and turnaround times have improved. There is still a long road ahead to render quality service, but progress made is acknowledged. The DA supports this report. I thank you, Chair.
Mr M MANYI: Chairperson, our members were part of these oversight visits at SA Police Service, SAPS training centres as mentioned and to the firearms registry and other places, and reported the appalling conditions in which these centres are run. We were appalled that SAPS was required to pay the SA National Defence Force over R117 million for the use of the training facilities, even though both are government departments concerned with the safety of the nation.
We were also infuriated when we learned that, in the midst of the thousands who applied to join SAPS, there is a considerable number of those who join and drop out of
training, and that those responsible for training do not keep proper records of this dropouts and the reasons for their dropping out. We agree with the recommendation that a fully- fledged and properly managed SAPS training academy be established in the Northern Cape to prevent the mismanagement that is currently taking place.
At the Central Firearms Registry, we were stunned by the gross incompetence of those tasked with the management of the department. Thousands of firearms and ammunition are lost every single year and there is no mechanism to track those firearms and they end up being used to commit crimes in the country. There was no destruction of intercepted firearms and ammunition for the 2021-22 financial year, and to this day, it is not clear what happened to these. This is very concerning Chairperson.
The likelihood that these have found their way back into the hands of the criminals cannot be ruled out. From the way the Central Firearms Registry is managed, it is difficult to argue with the perception that the police are a key component of the escalation of violent crimes in this country [Inaudible]
... that they are actively working with gang bosses to supply them with illegal firearms.
Chairperson, this is one of those oversight visits that there should be no partisanship. There should be no politics in this. We should all be focused on fighting criminality.
IsiXhosa:
Siyeke ukuquma amanyala.
English:
This report must be rejected with a contempt it deserves. Thank you.
The ACTING CHAIRPRSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Thank you hon member. For completeness I now recognise IFP. UDM, ATM, GOOD, AIC. Hon member from COPE, are you still on the platform?
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Sorry Chairperson, Shaik Emam NFP I am here.
The ACTING CHAIRPRSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Okay, my apologies, earlier on you were not here. Over to you. hon COPE just give us a second, let me recognise hon Shaik Emam. Over to you Sir.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon Chairperson, you know, this particular oversight visit was perhaps the last time that members of this
portfolio committee had the opportunity of interacting with our former chairperson Joemat-Pettersson. May her soul rest in peace. Yes, we spent a considerable amount of time. We went to Kimberley of course, which was her hometown in any event. We visited the training centres, we visited Kimberley. Let me not forget that she did some campaigning for the ANC in these events as well.
But very importantly, I am not sure what my colleagues have seen that is a little different to me. I remember that the chairperson was insisting that she wanted to go and check the firearm registry offices. An in my understanding, we saw a lot of progress there. There was so much of backlog when you went there previously to this time. She was actually quite satisfied and all members that were there showed some level of satisfaction, that there was quite a bit of progress.
However, when we came to the issue of the Kimberley Police Station, we found serious problems of foreign nationals, illegal mining, a large number of taverns that were opened there 24 hours a day. And one of the problems identified there again was the liquor licenses that the local municipalities were issuing to these tavern owners for them to operate 24 hours which is shooting up the crime. That is why Kimberly is
one of the ... [Inaudible] ... highest crime spots in the country.
So yes, those were some of our observations. But very importantly on the colleges that we visited; we were satisfied with the services that they provided. The cleanliness, the food catering for Halaal and vegetarians. The only concern we had there were recruits because some people who have been recruited, monies were being spent Chairperson and some of them did not get this some got there, spent a week or so because they were offered better jobs.
It is for that reason that as the NFP we’ve always said, recruitment process must start with basic education. Grade 10,
11 and 12 let’s introduce policing in those subjects and in the curriculum so that you will attract the right kind of them. Otherwise, anybody and everybody that is unemployed when you put an advertisement out is going to apply. I am glad that the National Commissioner, the Minister of Police and others, are taking cognisance of that and are going to do something about it.
But as the NFP we are quite satisfied with the oversight that we’ve conducted that there was progress particularly in the
firearm registry. But on Kimberley, like many other police stations we can continue to be attacking the police officers, but we are creating the environment for criminals to thrive. If we don’t change that, let’s not blame the police officers. The NFP will support this. Thank you, Chairperson.
Ms M A MOLEKWA: Hon Chairperson, in May this year the committee visited two training facilities where young men and women are being trained and equipped with skills to become qualified police officers in Kimberley and in Tshwane. We had a fantastic engagement with many recruits, and we saw they are proud to be part of the SA Police Service.
Over the past two years, the SA Police Service embarked on an aggressive recruitment work, recruiting 20 000 additional sets of boots on the ground. We welcome this initiative from the President and the Minister of Police in response to escalating crime levels. Hon Chairperson, the recruits that we met in Kimberley and Tshwane represent a new generation of our people service that will enhance the image of the police and build trust in the communities. These young men and women have been offered an opportunity amid so many unemployed young people across our nation.
The recruits receive salaries, medical aid, accommodation, uniforms, just to mention a few. Make no mistake, this is not a handout and it’s not a charity but a lifetime opportunity. The recruits have been selected from 1 million applicants and have passed a rigorous physical and mental test. They are the
... [Inaudible] ... rate candidates and deserve their place in the academies. We want to urge the SA Police Service to focus on gender parity during future recruitment ... [Inaudible.]. We need to attract more females to the police service and the department should address the barricade that discourages women to join the SA Police Service.
In conclusion Chairperson, the committee once more expresses its gratitude to our hon President Cyril Ramaphosa for approving the recruitment for additional police recruits, and Minister of Defence and Military Veterans for the use of the three SA Infantry, SAI Military Base in Kimberley, and many more. May the project 10 000 be contingent in years to come and may it yield many more fruits. The ANC supports the report as presented Chairperson. I want to thank you.
Debate concluded.
A PETITION FROM THE POST OFFICE TO PARLIAMENT TASK TEAM AND THE UYINENE MRWETYANA FOUNDATION, CALLING ON THE ASSEMBLY TO ESTABLISH THE NATIONAL COUNCIL ON GENDER-BASED VIOLENCE AND FEMICIDE (SUBMITTED BY MS N K SHARIF, MP)
Ms C N NDABA: Firstly, I want to check whether you do I have five minutes or four minutes.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): It is five minutes, hon member.
Ms C N NDABA: Thank you very much, Chairperson and good morning, hon members of the House. Chair, I am presenting the Report on the Petition calling for the Assembly to establish the National Council on Gender-Based Violence and Femicide, dated 6 September 2022. The Portfolio Committee on Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities met on 15 March 2022 to consider the petition calling for the establishment of the national council on gender-based violence and femicide submitted by Ms N Sheriff, a member of the DA and a member of the portfolio committee.
Ms Shariff submitted the petition on behalf of the Uyinene Mrwetyana Foundation, UMF, on 7 September 2021 calling for the
Assembly to establish the national council on gender-based violence and femicide. The Speaker of the National Assembly referred the petition to the portfolio committee for consideration and report. Subsequently, the committee was briefed by Ms Shariff and the Uyinene Mrwetyana Foundation on the petition, on 15 March 2022. The committee was also briefed by the Department of Women in response to the petition.
Ms Shariff indicated that the motivation for this introduction of the question was the ongoing scourge of gender-based violence and femicide in the country. She outlined the following recommendations, as the petition, to the committee: That the Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities fast track the establishment of the council; that the Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities reports to the committee on the progress on the establishment of the council; that it must include feedback from Nedlac, feedback from their public participation and a timeline on when it will be tabled in Parliament; that the department should also report to the committee on the role of GBV as secretariat in the establishment of the council; and that the committee should visit the UMF in the Eastern Cape.
The committee should visit SA Post Office through Parliament task team in Cape Town as they conduct research on the postcards collected. The foundation indicated in its petition that the national council on gender-based violence and femicide has not yet been established to implement the NSP.
To this end, the foundation made specific requests to five portfolio committees, which members can read on our Report. With respect to the National Assembly, the request was that the National Assembly holds the Presidency and the rest of the executive accountable for the delayed action in establishing the council and implementation of the NSP.
All sectors involved in this process were urged to act decisively in ensuring that the fight against GBV remains a priority for this for the state. Furthermore, requests that a government body be designated to hold, process and store the letters the foundation delivered until this can be achieved.
As noted previously, the portfolio committee also afforded the Department of Women to respond to the petition at the meeting on 15 March 2000. The committee noted and supported the recommendations outlined in the petition and adopted a Report in this regard on 15 March 2022.
Furthermore, the committee outlines specific recommendations in its report to the Uyinene Mrwetyana Foundation and the Department of Women, the Department of Justice and Department of Public Works and Infrastructure. The committee remains committed to oversight, monitoring and evaluation of mechanisms to combat to combat the scourge of gender-based violence and femicide in the country.
It can report that there has been progress with regard to some of the recommendations in the petition, as the committee is currently dealing with the National Council on Gender-Based Violence and Femicide Bill. Once finalised, the Bill as the enabling legislation will provide establishment of the council as a statutory body which is responsible for providing strategic leadership on the elimination of gender-based violence and femicide South Africa, and affirms a national commitment to building a society that is free from all forms of gender-based violence and femicide. Thank you very much, Chairperson, for affording us to present this Report.
Ms N K SHARIFF: Thank you very much, House Chairperson. The process of getting this petition to Parliament was started by an initiative called the Post Office to Parliament Campaign, and the aim was to: Get young people from across the country
to put their views and the response to GBVF by government onto postcards, and was part of the petition and the memorandum that was handed to the Minister of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities; and to demand the establishment of the National Council on Gender Based Violence and Femicide.
The aim of this initiative was to facilitate over thousands of letters demanding justice and reconciliation from the Post Office in Claremont to Parliament. By using texts from the women’s March 1956, the Post Office to Parliament task team highlighted the need for freedom from GBVF; and the need for equal rights and safety for women and those who are vulnerable to GBVF.
The letters that formed part of this petition were shared from approximately 15 schools and received over 12 000 letters from across the country. These were used as prompts to facilitate discussions and bring to the forefront, the fears and experiences of so many.
The recommendations, as per the petition, included number: That the Portfolio Committee on Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities use all measures available to hold the executive accountable; that the PC on Women, Youth and Persons with
Disabilities to ensure that that the national council on GBVF is constructed within the model envisioned in the NSP, the National Strategic Plan, where society is properly represented on the council by fifty-one percent; that the necessary funds are made available to form the national council on gender- based violence and femicide; that progress on the formation of the national council on GBVF is made publicly available through reporting; that the appropriate legislation is put in place to ensure the transparency and accountability of this council; and lastly, that the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Correctional Services should oversee the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development of enabling legislation for the NCGBVF.
This portfolio committee must place pressure on the courts to hear the trials of Jesse Hess, Tazne van Wyk and Meghan Cremer. Chairperson, I would like to thank the chairperson of the portfolio committee as well as the Portfolio Committee on Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities for the opportunity to have this petition tabled in the committee; and for supporting the recommendations I had put forward together with the Post Office to Parliament task team.
As mentioned earlier, the chairperson did outline the recommendations I had put forward, so I won’t go through it again just again. Just again, thank you for going through it and supporting the recommendations that we had put forward. Chairperson, as we stand today, the Bill for the establishment of the national council on GBVF is currently before the court, and it is our mission to ensure that this Bill is the best it can be.
As a team in the portfolio committee, we are working together to ensure that the voices of those who have and are being affected by GBVF is placed on the top of the agenda. I would like to make mention of the Post Office to Parliament task team and the Uyinene Mrwetyana Foundation and thank them for trusting me to submit this petition on their behalf. Emely Orion, the project manager, Sara Sydenham, the petition drafter, Samkelo Mngadi and Masimbulele Buso from the UMF: The work that you do to protect those vulnerable to GBVF can never be understated. We salute you work and your efforts to end GBVF. Chairperson, I hereby request that the House consider and approve this Report. I thank you.
Ms N P SONTI: Chairperson, the death of Uyinene Mrwetyana more than five years ago focused the spotlight on the prevalence of
sadistic violence against women in this country. While the death of Uyinene was not the first nor the last of the violent murders against women in the country, it at least galvanised the society. Today we are fully aware that women are not safe anywhere in this country; not at work, not at schools, not at Post Offices and not even at church as the case of Pastor Omotoso clearly shows.
The establishment of the National Council on Gender-Based Violence and Femicide may help in developing strategies for the collective fight against gender-based violence. However, it certainly is not the answer to all the problems. These problems are ... [Inaudible.] ... and have much to do with social attitudes and with economic opportunities for women. The problems also relate to the woeful incapacity of the police to truly investigate these crimes; the incompetence of the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, to successfully prosecute the crimes and the inability of the judiciary to appreciate the context in which gender-based violence takes place.
As we speak today the people who killed Namhla Mtwa in the Eastern Cape, are still at large. Major Bhekizulu, her boyfriend, who violently abused her while she was alive was
never even questioned by the police. These are the issues that need to be involved in order to properly honour the victims of gender-based violence such as Uyinene to ensure that no any other women to women in this country will suffer as Uyinene did. We welcome the introduction of the National Council on Gender-Based Violence and Femicide Bill but argue that more is needed to deal with this. We welcome the Report. Thank you, Chairperson.
Ms T BREEDT: House Chair, in South Africa one woman is being raped every three hours. South Africa is considered to be the right capital of the world with 2 818 rape cases reported in the first quarter of 2022. The rate at which women are killed by intimate partners in this country is five times higher than the global average. In the first three months of 2023, 10 512 were raped, 1 485 attempted murders of women were reported, 969 women were killed and over 15 000 women were assaulted.
In the period between April and June of 2023, more than 890 women and almost 300 children were killed. Year–on-year still higher than last year. In a study it was found that governments often lack the ability to address gender-based violence, even where laws and codes of practices are in place mainly because it is tied up with gendered power relations
that are deeply entrenched in some cultures. The lack of political and institutional will to deal with gender-based violence and femicide is sustained by public attitudes.
Gender-based violence is seen as part and parcel of life in many societies and there is little or no pressure on government to address it. I repeat that this is what a study found. South Africa is no exception to this finding but proves this statement. It is not because South Africa lacks legislation to deal with criminals but our justice system does not protect victims and more often than not, traumatise them more. This can be seen as in sexual offences courts where victims are often only a meter or two away from their abusers. The DNA backlog, the shortage of rape-kits at police stations and the lack of social workers in necessary positions further strengthens this fact.
Chairperson, hon Sharif and Uyinene Foundation are not asking for anything out of the ordinary they are merely asking for state departments to start doing their work, to focus on what is wrong, to improve it, to better and to stop procrastinating. The plight for strengthening the fight against gender-based violence is not only noble and unnecessary, but needs to be addressed with the seriousness we
are not currently seeing. If these recommendations are actually carried out, South Africa would have taken a step in the right direction. We will support this Report.
Ms M E SUKERS: Chairperson, the ACDP is on the platform as well and we will be making a declaration.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Okay, because you were not on the list here. Nevertheless, let me allow you then, while the NFP is preparing himself to be ready. Over to you, mam.
Ms M E SUKERS: Chairperson, the CDP rises to acknowledge the courage of the family of Uyinene Mrwetyana who ensures that her life still speaks today. It is four years since that dark August in 2019 when Uyinene Mrwetyana, Jesse Hess and Megan Kramer became names we will never forget. Since then, too many stories of loss and heartache has been added. The names of loved ones that families and communities will never forget.
Their passing is a painful reality of the country we live in and the failures of our democratic dispensation.
Our concern as we consider this Report is that, we, as legislators and policymakers may fall in the trap of
weaponising gender-based violence especially in the current climate of extremism and the targeted aim against the traditional family unit. I noted the original recommendation that the National Council consist of 80% women and individuals from the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, and Intersex, LGBTQI, community. This would have been an extreme discriminatory recommendation. I am very glad that the committee removed it as a recommendation.
However, it again speaks to the concern that the fight against gender-based violence becomes an unbalanced and ideological attack on healthy traditional structures such as the family.
Legislation provides frameworks of law and should consider the social environment, values and beliefs. [Interjections.]
...
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): ... hon member, hon member! No-no, just mute that hon member, please. The information and communications technology, ICT, take out that member from the platform, please. You may proceed, hon member, and I am sure that member is out of the platform now.
Ms M E SUKERS: Thank you, Chair. Legislation provides frameworks of law and should consider the social environment,
values and beliefs of the people it affects. The family consisting of a mother and father is still the cornerstone of healthy societies. Research has shown that boys growing up without the support of healthy family structures consisting of both the mother and father are prone to destructive behaviors. We support the call for urgent and accelerated efforts in lawmaking but we are concerned that gender-based violence becomes a weapon of social re-engineering and the marginalisation of men.
We should avoid the pitfalls of extreme gender ideology that views men as enemies and the traditional family unit as outdated. Our job as lawmakers is to be cognisant of the underlying factors that drives violent behavior and we should push for the strengthening of support for families advocating better health services and for mental illnesses. Thank you, Chair. [Time expired.]
Ms G P MAREKWA: House Chairperson, in response to the petition as submitted by miss Sharif on behalf of Uyinene Mrwetyana Foundation, the Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities took substantial steps to pave the way forward on the matter as presented. This response by the department is indeed a display of a lessening government. The department’s
presentation outlines the comprehensive approach to the Bill and fundamental components, the structural framework of the gender-based violence and the National Strategic Plan on Gender-Based Violence and Femicide.
The department demonstrated the commitment to expedite the legislative process by introducing the Bill to Parliament within the ongoing fiscal year following the approval by the Cabinet in September 2021. Amid these momentous developments, it is very important to note the protective role undertaken by the ANC in ensuring the progression of this legislation. The ANC unwaveringly dedicate to build a society where women can exist without fear and violence with their rights upheld is eminently commendable. This staunch commitment is proof of a resolute commitment to forging a brighter future for all.
Moreover, the ANC steadfastly believes in moving beyond policy formulation to the rigorous implementation, monitoring and evaluation of proposed initiatives. The portfolio committee is currently considering the National Council on Gender-Based Violence and Femicide Bill. This is a reflection that the ANC is committed to combating gender-based violence and femicide and the call by the President who characterised this problem as a pandemic.
In conclusion, the holistic approach supported by the ANC is a is a testament to our unwavering dedication to creating a South Africa where gender-based violence is relegated to the past and the promise of a more equitable and secure future for all becomes a steadfast reality. The ANC supports the petition and its recommendations. I thank you, Chairperson.
Business concluded.
Mini Plenary rose at 11:18
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