Hansard: NA: Mini-Plenary 1
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 14 Sep 2023
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Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
MINI PLENARY 1 - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY (VIRTUAL) THURSDAY, 14 SEPTEMBER 2023
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Watch video here: NA: Mini-Plenary 1
Members of the mini-plenary session met on the virtual platform at 14:00.
The Acting Chairperson Mr F D Xasa took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
VIRTUAL MINI-PLENARY SITTING
(Announcement)
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr F D Xasa): Hon members, before we proceed, I would like to remind you that the virtual mini- plenary session is deemed to be in the precincts of Parliament and constitutes a meeting of the National Assembly, including the rules of debate which apply. Members enjoy the same powers and privileges that apply in a sitting of the National Assembly. Members should equally note that anything said on
the virtual platform is deemed to have been said in the House and may be ruled upon. All members who have logged in shall be considered to be present and are requested to mute their microphones and only unmute when recognised to speak. This is because the microphones are very sensitive and will pick up noise which might disturb the attention of other members. When recognised to speak, please unmute your microphone and where possible connect your video. Members should use the icons at the bottom of the system. We should also desist from making unnecessary points of order. Lastly, I wish to remind you that we are meeting in a virtual meeting and decisions that need to be taken can only be taken in the full plenary of the House.
With that, I will recognise the first speaker, hon Groenewald.
ESTABLISHMENT OF AD HOC COMMITTEE ON ALARMING INCREASE IN NUMBER OF ATTACKS AND MURDERS OF FARMERS AND FARM WORKERS
(Draft Resolution)
Dr P J GROENEWALD: Hon Chair, people may ask why I am coming forward with this motion to be discussed. The reasons are various. Firstly, I don’t think I need to tell hon members the importance of the agricultural sector. Its contribution to the gross domestic product was R140 billion, and if we look at the labour market, it is the agricultural sector that has shown an increase in the employment of people of South Africa. For 2021 till March 2023, there was an increase from 834 000 to 880 000 employees in the agricultural sector, working on our farms, feeding and ensuring that their families are happy and ensuring that there is food on the table. For June this year, it even increased by another 6 000 to 894 000. If we assume that each and every worker supplies and sees to his family of an average of four people, we’re talking about 3,5 million to 4 million people that are dependent on the agricultural sector when it comes to providing for their families.
However, besides that, the importance of the agricultural sector is actually applicable to each and every one of us. If you wake up in the morning, whether you make yourself a cup of coffee or tea or if you have breakfast, we must thank the farmers of South Africa because it is they who actually put food on the table, and that is important.
Now, I am coming forward with this motion in the sense that, ever since 1994 when President Mandela was the President of South Africa, he recognised the importance of ensuring that we fight the issue of farm murders in our rural areas.
Many strategies have been developed. For instance, in 2012 the police came forward with a strategic rural crime prevention strategy. It was updated in 2018, but there is no use that we have the strategies but in practice the murders and attacks on our farming communities just continue. The problem is that besides these strategies ... for instance the latest updated version refers to drones being supplied to farmers to fight the attacks against them, but in practice no drones were ever supplied to the farming community. Yes, we hear about drones bought by the Police Service but they are using them in other operations.
The time has come for us as Members of Parliament to realise the most important ... of this situation. I want to say that on the 1st of September this year in this same month, we had a situation where a subsistence farmer and his wife were brutally assaulted by criminals on their farm.
Afrikaans:
Ek wil vandag vir u sê dat die boere van Suid-Africa is onder beleg. As ek sê onder beleg dan beteken dit dat ‘n boer nie met sy werkers dorp toe kan gaan of met sy gesin dorp toe kan gaan en terug kom om dan nie voorbereid te wees dat daar dalk
‘n hinderlaag vir hulle gestel is as hulle terugkeer plaas toe nie.
Die boere is onder beleg want die regering van die dag lewer slegs lippetaal om te sê dat hulle vir die boere sorg. As ons na produksiekostes, brandstofpryse en salarisse wat verhoog gaan kyk, maar daarby dan addisionele uitgawes wat die boere moet aangaan om vir hul eie veiligheid te sorg, dan kos dit ‘n enorme hoeveelheid geld. Daarom sê ek dat ons boere onder beleg is. Die wreedheid waarmee die moorde gepleeg word, nie net op die boere of die boer van die plaas nie, maar ook op sy werkers, is nie gewone misdaad nie. ‘n Gewone misdadiger sal nie sy slagoffers martel nie. ‘n Gewone misdadiger sal dit wat hy wil hê vat en dan sal hy pad gee.
Ons as lede van die Parlement het ‘n verantwoordelikheid om te verseker dat ons ook in belang van ons landbou en ons boere optree. Ons kan nie toelaat dat ons net terugsit en niks doen nie, in terme daarvan dat hulle maar aan hul eie lot oorgelaat word nie.
Daarom hierdie mosie, om te sê dat daar ‘n komitee saamgestel moet word om ‘n behoorlike ondersoek te doen na die plaasaanvalle en plaasmoorde op ons landbousektor en
gemeenskap. Hulle hou die ekonomie aan die gang. Hulle sorg dat ek en u kos op die tafel het. Daarom vra ek vir die agb lede om hierdie mosie dan wel volgende week te ondersteun sodat ons kan sê dat die Parlement na vore getree het om ‘n bydrae te lewer om voedselsekerheid in Suid-Afrika te verseker. Ek dank u.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF POLICE: Good afternoon to the hon Ministers in attendance; Deputy Ministers; the chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Police who has just been affirmed as the new chairperson following the passing on of mme Tina Joemat-Petterson - May her soul continue to rest in peace.
Chairperson hon Seabi, congratulations to you. To the members of the portfolio committee; members of the executive council, MECs, present; Members of Parliament; senior members of the SA Police Service, SAPS; head of entities; distinguished guests; ladies and gentlemen, please, receive our revolutionary greetings this afternoon. Allow me to tender Minister Bheki Cele’s apology for not being able to be part of this important debate due to other work commitment.
Hon members, whatever our misgivings about the legacy are, may I take this opportunity to tender my condolences to the family of the late hon Buthelezi’s family.
IsiZulu:
Lala Ngoxolo Mntwana kaPhindangene!
English:
One of the greatest political and spiritual leaders of our time Mahatma Gandhi once said, and I quote: “All crime is a kind of disease and should be treated as such” I wish to outline the message illustrated by this great man as he rightly puts it that crime has no gender nor class and crime is a major part of every society and should be aggressively dealt with. Yes, crime cause, affects and touches everyone to some degree. As the ANC-led government and the SA Police Service in particular, will remain determined to fight all forms of crime from all angles it is our acknowledged responsibility to protect and safeguard our country and all who live in it.
It is with this in mind that we welcome the FFPlus motion as being debated today. I must say that I fully agree with the hon Groenewald that the farming community plays an important role in the economy of South Africa and the wellbeing of our people. It is very important that at all material times we must be the first to be at the defence of our farming community. However, I believe the motion as presented by hon
Groenewald is misplaced, particularly, the reasons advanced and the motivations that he gave. I will give an example of why I say this. If you listen to his inputs he talks to the cost of farming that is too expensive without any assistance it is very difficult, and therefore any other challenge that is added to that makes it very difficult for them.
I think the question that need to be answered and need to be debated is: How do we assist the farmers to deal with the cost of farming? I think that would have been the appropriate subject matter for discussion, not the reasons that have been advanced and the motion what it intends to do because the issues raised are misplaced. Unfortunately, the motion brought forward seems to suggest that some quarters of society are more impacted by crime than others. I stand here before you all to say that this is simply not true. Crime is crime and this administration since 1994 - with what he said Nelson Mandela initiated - we are continuing to work on the path outlined by former President Nelson Mandela.
President Cyril Ramaphosa have taken the course to a higher level. We have put resources, funds and personnel to ensure the improvement of safety for all communities; rural or urban, black or white, farmer or farm worker. In the recent past we
have seen an increase in the intake of police that is intended to assist us to be able to respond appropriately. I have, therefore, found no reasonable justification to the establishment of an ad hoc committee to deal specifically with farm and farm murders. The country is engulfed by the concerning persistence of gender-based violence and femicide to such an extent that the President of the country even dubbed it a second pandemic after COVID-19.
However, I have not heard calls for any special ad hoc committee to deal with this crime. I can mention many other areas of crime and criminality that are threatening to plunge our country into a crisis but they have not heard similar calls from the FFPlus. It makes one wonders, why? If anything, hon members, facts support our overwhelming disagreement that farm attacks and farm murders are on the rise in South Africa, they are not on the rise. We also deny the notion that the SA Police Service does not have a handle on such crimes affecting the rural communities.
On the contrary, esteemed members of this House, the latest released crime figures between April to June 2023 show that
6 228 people were killed in South Africa. Out of a sample of
5 987 of these murders, only 79 murders took place at a farm
plot, smallholding or agricultural land. This is not to suggest that these murder victims were farmers but rather that the crime took place in small holdings or farming areas. To put farm attacks and farm murders into even greater perspective, from April to June this year, there were 14 murders in the farming community. Out of the 14 people killed in the farming community four were employees of farm workers, five were farmers while four were farm dwellers and one was a visitor.
The crime statistics also show that law enforcement efforts to improve the safety and security in farms amongst the rural community is producing positive results. The figures show a drastic decrease in contact crimes in rural communities with
79 less cases reported compared to the previous year. I must not be misunderstood to be saying that a single death does not matter, any death matters. We want one to zero death in the country. Aggravated robberies have also decreased by 26 incidents. Declines in social offences, attempted murder and common assault cases have also been noted in the same period.
Ladies and gentlemen, robberies at residential and nonresidential properties in farming communities have also declined in all provinces. Figures don’t lie. The fact is that
rural communities have experienced less violent crimes and other contact crimes compared to the same period last year. The declines are not coincidence. To borrow from Mahatma Gandhi’s words, I quoted earlier that all crime is a kind of disease and we are treating it as such. As contained in the ANC manifesto of 2019 review, we committed among others to strengthen policing to rid our communities of all forms of crimes, drugs, gangsterism and violence against women in vulnerable groups.
I believe as government we have stayed true to our commitment. The SAPS is doing its bit to rid the disease of crime. Again, the facts show improvement in reported cases of crime in most provinces. These decreases in crime in the rural communities stems from a combination of policing strategies in place to enforce the law. They are also a direct product of working better and more co-ordinated with affected communities through the National Rural Safety Strategy. The five-year strategy which is currently in the third year of implementation ensures that the law enforcement build effective capacity and capability in rural areas.
Over and above building new police stations, the SAPS is expanding the footprint of the police and improving ... [Time
expired.] ... Thank you, Chair. I want to reaffirm that we are on course and this decline in the rural areas that is in the farming communities is any indication that, yes, crime is in decline in the rural areas. Therefore, we do not support this motion. Chairperson, thank you very much.
Mr N P MASIPA: Hon Chairperson, I wish to begin by expressing deep concern over the recent and recurrent chants of kill the Boer, kill the farmer, by the members of the EFF. This irresponsible behaviour has left farming communities apprehensive across the country’s diverse spectrum, especially when viewed within the context of the upsurge in farm attacks. It is unfortunate, Chair, despite appeals from many South Africans and even the international communities to condemn this despicable behaviour, President Cyril Ramaphosa remains silent.
Even though the song is still under active consideration by the courts as to whether it is a hate speech or not, the phrase, kill the Boer, kill the farmer, is not only inappropriate, but also damaging to South Africa’s nation- building project. It is a divisive chant, one that fosters hatred, inflames racial divisions and threatens the very foundation of our democracy. According to figures from
AfriForum and the Transvaal Agricultural Union of SA, TLU SA, there has been an exponential increase in farm related crimes.
Deputy Minister, you have just misled the House. In just three months between May and July 2023, we have seen the murder rate surged by 56% in comparison to the first quarter of 2023.
These victims are not just numbers, they are entrepreneurs, the Chief Executive Officers, CEOs, and most importantly, our primary food producers. They are pivotal for our nation’s food security, ensuring that South Africa remains the breadbasket of the South African Continent.
For years, the DA has proactively suggested measures to curb crime and enhance security on farms. However, instead of adopting these measures, the ANC government has instead chosen to bolster the security of Ramaphosa’s Cabinet Ministers.
According to the National Treasury, the VIP Protection, costs the country over R1,9 billion a year, and it is projected to grow even further, while very little is being done to protect farmers from escalating crimes.
Setswana:
Mokgatlho wa ANC ga o na ditlhong, batho beso.
English:
Chairperson, we must prioritise reducing crime. The current trend of farm murders is alarming and makes the country’s food security and food system unsustainable in the long run.
Something has to give. One of my former colleagues at the university, hinted to me that people in his country fear visiting our beautiful country, South Africa, because of high crime incidences.
Based on my work on the portfolio committee, and after the realisation that nothing was being done to assist our farmers, the DA took a decision to escalate the issues of farm murders to the party’s highest decision-making body, the Federal Congress. A resolution titled, Farm Murders in South Africa.
The DA requested judicial commission of inquiry into “farm murders.” It was tabled at Federal Congress and passed with overwhelming majority.
The resolution called on the President of the Republic of South Africa to appoint a commission of inquiry in terms of section 84(f) of the Constitution, to investigate farm murders in South Africa, and to make recommendations to this Parliament to increase rural safety. We have already approached President Cyril Ramaphosa, urging him to establish
a commission of inquiry into farm murders and related crimes. The DA is advocating for a commission of inquiry because we believe that it is important to understand the root cause of criminal activities in our farming areas, in order to develop a comprehensive response strategy.
Despite the urgency of the issue, we haven’t had a concrete response from the President, except to acknowledge the receipt of our letter. Chairperson, we must recognise that farm murders don’t just emotionally scar the direct victims, they impact our society in its entirety, they sabotage our economy and they deter our tourism and diminish state revenue. Our farmers often reside in remote areas where they grapple with infrastructure challenges from unreliable connectivity due to ANC corrupt load shedding, to poor road conditions. This makes them more vulnerable.
The police response is often delayed, giving criminals an upper hand. Reported cases describe extreme brutality going beyond mere robbery. Such heinous acts demand thorough investigation and the immediate arrests of perpetrators. The DA welcomes the call for the establishment of an ad hoc committee on crime in farming communities. It is our sincere hope that such a committee will compel the President to
establish a commission of inquiry that will chart the way forward for a safer farming community. I thank you, Chairperson.
Mr M K MONTWEDI: Hon Chairperson, it is worrying that, as always, opportunistically, as part of a plan to tarnish the good image of the EFF as the only organisation that resonate with thousands and thousands of our people. Both the DA and the FF Plus wants to come here and speak of Kill the Boer, kill the farmer song as a contributor to killings. I wonder how it has contributed to the killing of 28 000 black people in our societies, or it doesn’t contribute there. It’s worrying, Chair, that it does that.
Killings remains a criminal activity and we treat it as such as the EFF, and we are not going to negotiate such. Hon Chair, at times, debates such as these ones, forces us to reflect on why we are where we are as a country. We must ask ourselves why it is even necessary to have a socially and economically powerful minority dictating the discourse on what is important and not in the country. If we do this thoroughly, we will all come to the realisation that we are where we are today, because of the spectacular failure of the decolonisation project in South Africa, if ever there was one.
Failed decolonisation projects have one thing in common, and that is ascertaining interests of the colonisers in almost all aspects of social and economic life. They also entail freeing the colonisers from his guilty conscience, and apportioning blame to the colonised for the sins of the coloniser. Now, here in this country, we know what the settler colonialism did, and how it continues to reinvent itself post the so- called 1994 settlements. Settler colonists continue to have land, to own mines, to control the economy, and are only too happy to have the native majority confined to the periphery of an economic life in this country.
This is aided by the state, indirectly run by the settler colonists via pliable natives, and now, in the Ruling Party. Now, settler colonists who have built up and sustained their wealth over centuries at the back of exploiting black labour, wants us to centre their needs and delusions into dealing with landlessness and economic exclusion. The idea that there is white genocide in this country, and that there is a targeted campaign at killing white farmers, is one of the delusions that settler colonists used to continue centring themselves in the national discourse.
We reject, and we must continue to reject these assertions. Hon Chairperson, let us quickly look into the recently released statistics by the SA Police Service, SAPS. Every quarter in this country, almost seven thousand people get killed, and almost 11 000 women and children get raped, a number that far surpasses the number of white people that get killed in farms, but we must put this in context that a death even of a one person, we don’t support that, Chair, and here today, because white lives matter more than black lives, we find ourselves having this debate with focus on white lives.
Even if we were to use the right wing and racist statistics of AfriForum, there would still be no indication that settler colonists’ white farmers are targeted in this country. The AfriForum report that Ntate Masipa there misquoted the report for farm murderers in 2022, indicated that there were 333 attacks and 55 murders on farms in 2002. Now, instead of focusing on crime more historically, we must come here and debate a murder of 55 people per year, instead of a murder of
28 000 people per year. Does this mean that only white lives matter, what about the black lives?
This is because in white supremacist thinking, white life is more valuable than black lives. The alarming rate of women and
children who are raped each day in South Africa as high as they are, they don’t call for a concern from the FF Plus and the DA, as that only wildlife matter. Shame on you, Masipa, you come here as a black man, to come and continue this perpetual hate on black people. Let me also remind the racists that we as black South Africans, constitute more than 80% of the total population, and yet, we only own just 10% under South Africa’s land, whereas they own more than 90% of South Africa’s land.
There is a problem of crime in this country that the outgoing government of the ANC is failing to deal with the problem of crime, and we will deal with it in 2024 when we take over as the EFF. This problem of crime whose genesis can be squarely located at the dispossession of land from natives by European settlers in this country. The government of the day is unable to deal with this problem, and they have allowed themselves to be led by settlers’ colonists in almost every important government decision. That is why today the DA is celebrating that the ANC supported their DA motion to remove our Public Protector, Busisiwe Mkhwebane.
There are no common interests between the dispossessor and the dispossessed. The majority of farmers into this country are
settlers, and the violence some experienced is no different from the violence experienced by us when such farms were dispossessed. Settlers are not special, and we will not agree to a parliamentary process that seeks to make them special.
We, as the EFF in Parliament we reject this motion, Chair. We are waiting as the government in waiting come 2024. With that, Chair, thank you very much.
Ms T BREEDT: House Chair, on Saturday, 1 December 2010, Attie, Wilma and their two-year-old little girl, Wilmientjie were attacked on their farm near Lindley in the Free State. Attie was stabbed 151 times with a knife, a garden fork and a panga and was left for dead with a garden fork pierced through his neck. This happened in full view of his wife and daughter.
Wilmientjie ran to her father, her feet were covered in his blood and her bloody footprints were found on the pavement around his body. Wilmien was shot in the head and thrown in a box. After having witnessed the murders of her husband and daughter, Wilma was shot in the head executioners style. After all of that happened, the attackers took a piece of cardboard and wrote the words, “We have killed them, we are coming back.” This is but one example of the brutality associated with farm attacks.
Farm attacks and farm murders cannot be regarded as normal crime. And although the SA Police Service, the SAPS, have a National Rural Safety Strategy - a national policy to fight crime in rural areas, enough is still not being done to combat this. On Tuesday, AfriForum released a report highlighting the low prosecution rates of farm attacks and farm murders and the findings shocking. The report analysed the 1 402 farm attacks and murder incidents recorded by the SAPS from 2019 to 2022 found that there were convictions in just 66 cases, which means that more than 95% of these violent crimes remain unsolved. The results also indicate the arrest and conviction rate of both farm murders and attacks are low. The arrest rate for attacks is only 22% and for murders it marginally increases to 49%.
AfriForum’s database also recorded 182 incidents of farm attacks in which at least one person was murdered, that totals
217 victims for the 2019 to 2022 period, and the SAPS recorded
153 of these incidents for the same period. Of these murders, there were only 24 cases that resulted in a guilty verdict. This indicates an overall conviction rate of 32%. Of 100 ... [Inaudible.] ... guilty, while it is expected that convictions will almost always be lower than arrest, the low conviction rate for both murders as stated above and attacks that stands
at only 16% suggests a serious deficiency within the SAPS and the NPA and this needs to be investigated.
As I conclude, according to conservative statistics, from January to 26 August of this year, we have already seen
104 farm attacks and at least 32 murders. Certain institutions put these statistics a lot higher. We should not just be asking why prosecution and conviction rates are so low, but why the SAPS are under reporting attacks and murders and why our farmers and our farm workers are under siege. The establishment of an ad hoc committee is critical to South Africa, and especially for food security. I thank you.
Mr S N SWART: House Chair, the ACDP wishes to thank the hon Dr Groenewald for this topic for discussion. Violent crime in the country has reached pandemic levels and it is the primary role of the state to protect its citizens. In our view, government is failing dismally in this regard. People do not feel safe in their homes, at work and in other public places. Despite what the Deputy Minister says, the ACDP is extremely concerned about the numbers of attacks on farms and smallholdings, often very brutal in nature. We condemn these farm attacks and murders in the strongest possible terms as we do all criminal acts against our citizens.
Commercial and emerging farmers play a key role in ensuring food security in the country. Besides the tragic loss of life and injuries to farmers and farm workers, food security is clearly threatened by these ongoing attacks. Government’s National Rural Safety Strategy must be reviewed. The government has implemented commendable steps to fight the scourge of gender-based violence in the country, but it’s in our view not doing enough to protect another very vulnerable sector, and that is the agricultural community. What makes matters worse is the very low arrest and conviction rate, as indicated by the AfriForum report released this Tuesday, which says that out of 1 402 farm attacks recorded by the SAPS, between 2019 and 2022 there have been convictions in only 66 cases. This is this graceful.
Criminals clearly take advantage of the increased vulnerability of farmers and farm workers as they live in isolated rural areas. Electricity and telephone lines are often cut off before farm attacks and because there are no cell phone signals, farmers and farmworkers are often left to their own. The chant, Kill the farmer - Kill the boer, aggravate an already dire situation.
To conclude, the ACDP wishes to thank and honour all the farmers and farm workers who have ensured that we have food on our tables, despite these ongoing attacks. We wish to thank all those dedicated police officials, neighbourhood and farm watches that have assisted in protecting farmers and their workers and have arrested some of the suspects in these cases.
Afrikaans:
Baie dankie aan julle almal.
English:
Lastly, we call on all South Africans to pray for the protection of farmers and their workers at this time, as well as to pray for the families and friends of those who have been murdered or who are recovering from their injuries. Indeed, we need to pray for all the victims of crime in society. How much longer will we as citizens tolerate these unspeakable acts of violence against our citizens? I thank you.
IsiXhosa:
Mr N S L NKWANKWA: Sihlalo weNdlu, uMzantsi Afrika nje jikelele, unengxaki yolwaphulo-mthetho, ukubulawa kwabantu ezidolophini, ezilokishini nasezilalini. Kwiilali zethu, apho sisuka khona, kudlwengulwa abantu abadala ngabantwana abangene
bhakada kwiziyobisi. Kwezinye iilali, abantu abakwazi ukulala ebusuku kuba besoyika ukungenelwa ngamapharaphara. Urhulumente uyoyisakala ukuqubisana nolwaphulo-mthetho nokubulawa kwabantu. Kubanzima ukuhamba kwiilokishi zaseNyanga inani labantu abantsundu ababulawayo lingaphaya kwinani lamafama amhlophe abulawayo. Asitsho ukuba ukufa kwamafa amhlophe asiyongxaki ekufanele ukuba ijongwe ngurhulumente. Into esingayifuniyo yinto yokuba kuthiwa eMzantsi Afrika kukwavula- zibhuqe, ezilokishini kulawula ooNqalintloko izinto ezinganamkhondo kuba amapolisa esoyisakala kwaye engenazixhobo zaneleyo zokuqubisana nobugewu. Asinakuze siyivumele into yokuba xa kusifa abantu abantsundu kufuneka siyamkele loo nto sithi ilungile, ze kuthi xa kubulawa amaBhulu ezifama kufuneke ukuba kubekho indlela eyodwa eza kumiselwa yokuqubisana neso simo. Loo nto iya kuthetha ukuba apha eMzantsi Afrika kukho ubomi obubalulekileyo kunobunye xa kuza kuthi kwakubhubha umntu ontsundu kubonakale ngathi akukho ngxaki. Umzekelo ophilayo, ngela xesha bekukho izixholo-xholo phaya kwela phondo laKwaZulu-Natal ...
English:
... more than 300 black people died ...
IsiXhosa:
... kodwa akuzange kubekho sankxwe kweli lizwe kungazange kubekho ...
English:
... national day of mourning ...
IsiXhosa:
... kuba kaloku xa kufe umntu ontsundu kufe umntu ongaxabisekanga.
Apha eMzantsi Afrika, kwizithwakumbe ezininzi ezithi zisahlele, abona bantu babhubha kakhulu ngabantu abantsundu. Bekubhubhe abantu abantsundu ngoku, apha eNtshona Koloni, bekukho udushe loonoteksi, kodwa sixelelwe ngomkhenkethi omnye omhlophe waseGermany obeze eMzantsi Afrika. Amanani abantu abantsundu abathe bachaphazeleka, babhubha awaziwa kwaye awaqokelelwanga ngokuchanekileyo. Loo nto ichaza ukuba ubomi bomntu ontsundu abunabuso kwaye abanamagama.
Kufuneka silungise indlela yokulwa ulwaphulo-mthetho eMzantsi Afrika, siqinise ...
English:
... the law enforcement agencies including the police and support them as communities. Police must be given enough resources ...
IsiXhosa:
... kuba kumaxesha amaninzi athi amapolisa ezama ufumanise ukuba awanazo izixhobo zokuqubisana nolwaphulo-mthetho. Loo nto ithetha ukuba kukho ucalu-calulo xa kuza kusetyenzwa amaBhulu kuphela ngokungathi nguMzantsi Afrika wabo kuphela, nangona kungenjalo. Xa sibulawa kwaye sihlala ngokoyika emakhaya loo nto ifuna ukuba urhulumente enze into ebonakalayo yokulwa nolwaphulo-mthetho kumakhaya nakuluntu jikelele.
Camagu.
Ms N P PEACOCK: Chairperson, the ANC rejects the call for the establishment of an ad hoc Committee on Farmers and Farmworkers’ Attack. Our view is that the police are dealing with crime in general. There is no evidence to suggest that there is a crime syndicate to attack farmers and farmworkers. Crime is a societal challenge that requires our collaborative effort to combat it.
The hon Minister of Police already spoke to the crime statistics and highlighted that, between April and June 2023,
SAPS recorded more than 300 000 community-reported serious crimes, of which 79 were recorded at rural stations. As stated, during this period, SAPS recorded 6 228 murders countrywide. Of this total, 14 murders took place in the farming community and of these 14 murders, five were farmers and eight were employees and farm dwellers.
Farm murders constitute 0,2% of all murders committed in South Africa. This affects hon members, not emotions. Based on this fact, I want to state clearly that the Freedom Front Plus has brought an alarmist motion, intended to launch their 2024 election campaign. We are not calling for this disingenuous attempt to abuse the Rules of Parliament for its own political party use. I want to further state clearly that the African National Congress is not turning a blind eye to farm murders. We are not denying that farmers and farmworkers are being murdered, but other South Africans also.
We are concerned about farm murders, as we are concerned about all the murders. The importance of a crime is no longer linked to the victim’s race. A loss of life is painful, regardless of race. The ANC has fought a bitter struggle to end discrimination or privilege on the basis of colour. We will
never allow this again. Crime affects every person, regardless of the economic sector or a race.
We have a problem with violent crime in South Africa, specifically with murders. Nobody can deny this. It is a great concern, not only to the police, but also to Parliament, the ANC and government at large. [Interjections.] We are talking about about approximately 70 murders per day committed in South Africa, of which approximately 10 are women and three are children. Thirteen percent of murders are attributed to arguments and misunderstandings.
We must reach a common understanding that the factors impacting on violent crime, and especially murders, must be addressed through a holistic, whole of government and whole of society approach. During oversight visits, we have seen time and time again the devastating effect or impact of alcohol and mushrooming of taverns on crime in all our communities.
These are the concerns that must be addressed by local municipalities through the enforcement of bylaws and ensuring that taverns keep their approved business hours. We call on local municipalities not to lose sight of the impact of
alcohol on crime, by ensuring that licences of residents are being taken care of.
Much has been said about the motivations behind farm attacks, but there is absolutely no evidence that support claims that some attacks are perpetrated by organised crime syndicates.
Afrikaans:
Daar is geen etniese suiwering of wit volksmoord nie. Plaasaanvalle is nie rasgedrewe nie. Vir elke verskillende plaasaanval kan ek 10 ander ewe gruwelik en erger voorbeelde van brutaliteit en ... [Onhoorbaar.] ... gee. Bewerings van wit volksmoord is onverantwoordelik en die VF Plus, die DA en die ACDP moet dit stop.
English:
As our President stated previously, race relations in farming communities are not harmonious. It is far from it. We need to build this relationship and establish social cohesion in all our communities. This is the only way to move forward from our painful past and reclaim our future.
During the July 2021 unrest, a police officer was locked in the boot of his car, after he followed looters. His car was
set alight and he was burnt alive. May his soul rest in peace. This is a horrific act. We have not called for an ad hoc committee in the face of this horrific crime, because we understand that the police will do their work to arrest the perpetrators of crime, and Parliament, through its committee, will play an oversight role to ensure that the law enforcement agencies deal with such challengers.
We are building a nonracial society and we will always be concerned when race is subtly used as a political tool for mobilisation of support for political gains. We should not see crime through the lens of race. Instead, we are concerned about the loss of lives of 14 farmers and farmworkers murdered between April and June, the 31 police members who were slaughtered mercilessly for executing their constitutional mandate, and all murders that occurred in our country.
In conclusion, to the DA, no commission will be established. We will never consider or entertain the DA Federal Council resolution. In that position, as the ANC, we are saying, we are rejecting this motion. I thank you.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Xasa): Hon members, I would like to remind members that these mics are very sensitive. So,
anybody who does anything is actually violating the warning I gave. Thank you.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: House Chairperson, allow me to thank hon Groenewald for the motion that he has tabled here today. And yes, indeed, I heard one of my colleagues, particularly from the EFF you talk about “Kill the Boer” chant song. Very importantly, and I must agree with you: Killing is a criminal activity; but also, singing a song, “Kill the Boer”, is a criminal activity because you are enticing and encouraging others to take the lives of innocent people.
I must again agree with hon Groenewald that, indeed, farmers and farm workers play a pivotal role in the economic growth of this country. Eight hundred and eighty thousand direct and indirect jobs are created in this country. More importantly, I think we need to understand that it leads to about 3,5 million people, as hon Groenewald alluded to, that are basically directly or indirectly benefitting from farming activities.
Let us not forget that if it was not for the farming and the food products in South Africa, we would be food insecure.
Now, let’s come to the issue of crime, particularly in the farming community. There is no substantive evidence to confirm
that indeed there is an orchestrated attempt to remove farmers or kill farmers particularly, and perhaps that is something we need to look at in the future. Our understanding as the NFP is as a result of the remote areas and ruralness of the farming community. They are vulnerable to attacks by criminals.
What we cannot run away from is that South Africa is currently in a state of lawlessness and every political party in this House, except the NFP, often undermines the role of the police officers and the lives that they put at risk. In fact, we look for the slightest opportunity to attack them. An ideal example is what happened in Kensington the other day, when they confronted a drug dealer and the community wanted to protect the drug dealer. The police attempted to take him away through the vehicle. Of course, that is making headlines all over.
However, the criminal activity, the drugs and the number of people affected is not being attended to or addressed. What we really need in South Africa is a holistic approach to the high levels of crime. Police officers don’t cause these crimes.
They are not the reason why the crime rate is so high, but they are expected to deal with all the failures of every other respective department and politicians at large. That is what we should be dealing with.
If we don’t deal with it through a holistic approach of what are the root causes of crime, we are going to continue with our people dying. I agree: The death of one farmer is one too many. The death of any citizen ... [Time expired.] We don’t believe the ad hoc committee is going to solve the problem, but a holistic approach to deal this problem with crime once and for all. Thank you, Chairperson.
Mr B C GOLDING: Thank you, House Chair. The ongoing scourge of farm attacks and murders is a plight on our nation and a directed threat to food security in our country. While our fiscus is currently under pressure and the Treasury and Cabinet are scrambling to tighten belts, the economic impact of farm attacks to murders due to the death of rural safety accounts for tens of billions of rands in economic impact and lost food production.
The less crime stats indicate a dramatic increase of 56% in farm murders over the preceding quarter. Is it not time that we take concrete steps to protect and safeguard those who feed us? But, what can be done? You may ask. The SA Police Service has published the National Rural Safety Strategy, which claims to plan to improve policing, build capacity, increase integration and co-operation in rural areas.
However, this occurs against the backdrop of rural precincts which cover large geographical areas, which are often extremely isolated, with: Long distances which need to be travelled; underresourced rural stations and stock theft units, both in terms of manpower, equipment and physical infrastructure; a lack of skilled personnel in these rural precincts, as these areas often need specialised knowledge, skills and training; a shortage of adequate vehicles, mounted units, K9 resource forces; a deficient radio network; lack of dedicated rural safety co-ordinators; ineffective evidence in case docket management; inefficient co-ordination and integration with rural safety volunteer structures; the absence of border control, coupled with dilapidated border fences; and roads in these rural areas which hampers operational enforcement and facilitate stock theft.
Add to this, an ineffective criminal justice system; regular theft of critical infrastructure; and topped off with frequent bouts of load shedding, which puts both farming operations and safety at serious risk. This risk. This is truly a recipe for disaster.
I think it’s time we pay this matter a bit more attention. Actions speak louder than plans. What should be done? You may
ask. Well, we need to show our willingness to address this this matter. Farm matters need to be categorised as a priority crime. These attacks are very similar to house robbery, business robbery and car hijacking, all of which are priority crimes, ... [Interjections.] ... and as such, SAPS has set up and capacitated specialised task teams to investigate and resolve these crimes. It must provide a focused SAPS national resource and training plans to capacitate rural stations and to provide boots on the ground.
Furthermore, we must reintroduce specialised units dedicated to the protection of our rural areas, as previously promised by the Minister of Police. This has proven highly effective in DA-run municipalities in the Western Cape, such as Overstrand and Swartland, Mossel Bay and the City of Cape Town, where localised rural safety units have recorded marked successes in preventing crime and reducing rural crime.
We must strengthen and capacitate volunteer members, structures and organisations, such as farm watches, which have access to far more human resources and capital than SAPS currently does. These members have the willingness and often local expertise, which is of great value in these rural areas, in the fight against crime.
We must increase the investigative capacity at these rural stations, to ensure thorough and timeous apprehension ... [Interjections.] ... and the reduction of case backlogs. We must increase the crime intelligence capacity in these rural areas to focus on prevention rather than after the fact, responding to murders and attacks which have occurred.
We must increase the monitoring of ‘pay slow’ pertaining to farm attacks. This is being demonstrated by the DA via its Watching Brief programme to ensure that cases are driven to completion. Zimbabwe was once known as the breadbasket of Africa. Today, due to murder, persecution and subsequent flight of its farmers, it is now a net importer of food. Its economy is in a shambles. We must choose a different path. To accomplish this, the DA supports this resolution. I thank you very much.
Dr P J GROENEWALD: Chair, let me start with the Deputy Minister referring to Mahatman Ghandi’s ‘crime affects all’ notion, it is true, but why then did the police prioritise cash-in-transit heists? The results are quite clear! About a week or two ago the police have killed 19 criminals. That is the difference!
The hon Deputy Minister says that figures do not lie. I can say to the hon Deputy Minister: They do lie, because they don’t give the perspective. If you want to have a clear perspective active, then you must understand to compare apples with apples. If we do that, you will get a different picture.
I want to say it very clearly. It is the farming community that develops, upholding the economy and is the heartbeat of rural economy and building of infrastructure in rural areas. If we kill our farmers, we kill our rural areas.
Afrikaans:
Agb Peacock verwys na 0,2% van die moorde. Agb lid, u is op die Komitee oor Polisie. U moet bietjie oplet in die klas. As u appels met appels wil vergelyk, dan moet jy dit per 100 000 van die bevolking vergelyk. As jy plaasmoorde per 100 000 van die bevolking vergelyk, dan is die verhouding een is tot meer as 100.
Suid-Afrika se totale moordsyfer is een is tot 37 van die bevolking van 100 000 en dit is die groot verskil en daarom wil ek u sê dat hierdie komitee ...
English:
And, it puts it very clearly: To investigate the effectiveness of safety measures on our farms. If we reject this committee, it is against the ANC-led government who does not want to be held responsible and is not transparent when it comes to crime. Everything that the ANC sees is through a perspective of race. That, makes the ANC nothing else than a racist political party. I thank you.
Debate concluded.
THE BENEFITS OF A POLICY APPROACH THAT IS FOCUSED ON THE INFORMAL ECONOMY TO ADDRESS INEQUALITY, POVERTY AND UNEMPLOYMENT IN SOUTH AFRICA
(Subject for Discussion)
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Chairperson, thank you very much, I hope it’s okay that I keep my video closed because I have poor connectivity here. I am in the middle of load shedding.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr F D XASA): Yes, that’s
accepted.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Thank you, sir. According to the International Labour Organisation, about 2 billion workers or 60% of the world’s employed population of the ages between 15 and older, spend at least part of their time in the informal sector. Today the informal sector still accounts for about a third of low and middle income countries economic activities, which means quite a sizeable chunk of our economy - about a third of the South African economy, is made up of the informal sector. This then provides the reason why this country, and from a policy point of view, we should be focusing on the informal sector as a way of trying to improve the load, especially of the previously disadvantaged and the poor.
Since the advent of democracy, there appears - especially from a policy point of view, that South Africa tends to lag behind other upper middle income countries in terms of investing decisively in the small business sector, which is a core factor behind the very low employment levels in those jurisdictions. In this country the informal sector, especially informal businesses from small-scale farmers to waste pickers, street vendors, street marketplace, Shisa Nyamas, the taxi drivers in the Western Cape, if you like, are not entirely recognised as functioning businesses that require or deserve
the support and the respect of government for their entrepreneurial activities.
You will understand that some of these, although they contribute a lot of money meaningfully to the economy, they tend to be harassed, for instance - like the taxi drivers, what was happening between the City of Cape Town and the taxi drivers in the Western Cape. But also, you have informal sectors that are not getting enough support - the Shisa Nyamas in Gugulethu, in Nyanga, in Mdantsane and many parts of the country where they are not getting enough support from the Department of Small Business and other sectors of government that should be paying attention to this important sector.
While we acknowledge that the department has decided to step out the township and rural entrepreneurship programme through an implementation of programmes over the medium term, we are concerned that such steps are not adequate to try and address the needs of the informal sector. For example, the department has set itself a target of about 1 033 micro enterprises that it wants to support over a period of a year - which is 12 months. But if you were to divide 133 small and micro enterprises that are going to be supported, it means that per month that is a paltry 111 entities that are going to be
supported in South Africa by the small business sector. And per province, it is a small number of 13 businesses which are going to be supported while most of the entities require support because most of the people, especially those who are not economically active or rather who are not part of the formal sector of the economy, find themselves working in those sectors.
In this regard, we are saying that due to underfunding of the Small Business Development department, there has been a lack or inability of the department to fulfil its mandate to lead an integrated approach that will ensure the promotion and development of entrepreneurship, small, medium and micro-sized enterprises and co-operatives, which you normally find in
peri-urban areas, rural townships and rural areas and to also ensure that there is a development of an enabling legislative and policy framework that supports the growth of informal businesses and its sustainability. Hence the country is faced with the levels of inequality and poverty and the enormous rate of unemployment that we are struggling with.
One of the issues that we should be working towards is that as a country we should be addressing issues of market concentration in certain sectors as a way of allowing small
businesses, especially those who are operating in the informal sector, to enter into markets that ordinarily they would not have either the resources or the capital required for them to be able to formalise and co-operate optimally. The other issue which we have proposed many times in the past is that the informal economy is not booming because they lack financial support, therefore government should actually creatively offer them business credit.
This can be done through using the Grameen Bank model, for example – the grassroots of microfinance model via the Post Office, which we have just changed into a bank - which will be a bank which we’ll set up in a village with field officers and some qualified bank workers who will understand the market.
Those who will use the communal systems of African existence as a way of extending finance to people in groups so that the responsibility for repayment is placed on the group that will actually be accessing funds.
Also, the other issue which we have said, is that there is a need that government should have a regulation that creates a space for small businesses to enter markets by enforcing formal businesses, including the retails for example, to form partnerships with informal business sectors. We have proposed
in the past and we still continue to propose that in instances where malls are built in the townships, it is important that the anchor tenants and other well-established businesses - the corporate, are encouraged to make sure that they provide the necessary support for informal businesses that operate in that area where arrangements can be entered into - where they are given spaces at reasonable prices and where they can be able to operate businesses in centres that ordinarily they will not be able to access without rent ... [Time expired.].
The MINISTER OF SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT: Hon Chairperson,
good afternoon to all the hon Members of Parliament and the other guests that have joined us online. I would like to thank hon Kwankwa for the contribution they have made and further talk to the work that government is doing to address some of the concerns raised.
Hon members, it is the common fact that apartheid left South Africa with deep fractures along the lines of class, race, gender and places of residence. The former Bantustans and townships were deliberately underdeveloped and livelihood opportunities actively undermined so that black South Africans would be forced to cheaply sell their labour on the mines some in factories. This resulted in townships and the former
Bantustans becoming dormitory economists, marginally located and dependent on remittances and with only 10% of the economically active populations earning income from wage labour.
As the ANC-led government we have tackled the extreme poverty we found through a comprehensive system of social protection. The quality of life of citizens living in these areas has steadily improved. A fact confirmed by the United Nations Development Population Index, UNDPI. However, the scars of apartheid have not gone away. South Africa remains one of the most unequal countries worldwide. Unemployment is far too high, especially in the townships and marginalized rural areas. This is why we prioritise economic transformation with Small, Medium and Micro Enterprises, SMMEs, co-operatives included in the informal sector to drive growth and job creation.
Hon Chairperson, it is generally recognised that South Africa has a different labour market structure to other upper middle income and developing economies. Less than 10% of our economically active population is self-employed compared between 25% and 40% on average that are working for themselves. We are looking at that and trying to make sure
that we breach that gap. If I were to take you down in terms of the specifics of the introductions that we have made. If you look at Statistics SA it tells you that SMMEs in 2013 contributed 25% to business turnover. By 2021, the statistics increased to 33% of the of South Africa’s R10,6 trillion.
Hon members, if we break this down to sectors in 2013, SMMEs made up just 39% of business turnover in construction. By 2021, this had increased to 66%. This is the direct result of our fight against anticompetitive practices in the sector and the public procurement policies that we are implementing.
In the manufacturing space, SMMEs, both formal and informal, contributed just 18% of turnover in 2013, by 2021 this has increased to 27%. This is because of our enterprise supplier development initiatives, our small manufacturing support programmes and working with co-corporates to open supply chains.
The 2022 Global Entrepreneurship Monitor Report shows that our early stage entrepreneurial activities are also on the up. By 2001, we had just over one million early stage entrepreneurs, by 2021 this had increased to just over four million and increase of 274%. These are facts which shows that South
Africans are becoming more entrepreneurial and SMMEs both formal and informal are making an increased contribution to our economy. So, there can be no fault narrative about the ANC-led government not supporting both the formal and the informal sectors. However, much more can still be done which why we have taken an ecosystem approach with our nicest strategy where we are mobilising all resources across society to support both formal and informal sectors.
Hon members, we are clear that the informal sector must be supported for two reasons. Firstly, the sector provides jobs and livelihoods to the most vulnerable individuals in our society. Including the urban poor female heads of households, disabled people and rural based families. We remain unapologetically propoor and our policies are as aligned to the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals.
Secondly, the informal sector is the nursery of entrepreneurship. Many of our top entrepreneurs started out hustling in the dusty streets of some townships. We must be doing more to create growth pathways for these informal entrepreneurs. The informal sector is calling the hidden economy for a reason and reliable statistics are hard to be found. Every few years, Statistics SA conducts a survey. We
are currently waging the results of the recent survey. We should also give an indication of how COVID-19 impacted the informal sector.
Just over half of all informal businesses are in the trade sector with more than one million people working in the informal retail. A disproportionately high number of these women. According to the African Food Security Urban Network, this informal retail sector made up of street and spaza traders, corner grocers and street takeaways is a key source of food for poor households in general and food insecure households in particular. Some two thirds of informal businesses made more than R750,00 per month.
However, there is gender bias we must tackle. Only 32% of these women earn more than R1 500,00 per month compared to 53% of men.
Hon Chairperson, we find it ironic that the DA speaks a lot about the red tape. As the hon Kwankwa mentioned, Cape Town has become the main city where informal and more recently transport SMMEs are actively harassed. Goods and assets confiscated and impounded and small businesses are closed.
I would like to call the Chairperson of the Cape Peninsula Informal Traders Forum, Mme Rosheda Muller who said and I quote:
Under the guise by law-enforcement the City of Cape Town Administration harasses, intimidates and diminishes the income of hardworking, honest and vulnerable traders who seek nothing more than to earn a legitimate income.
Hon Chairperson, we are alive to the needs of informal traders and within our limited resources are enveloped are making critical interventions.
The hon Kwankwa made reference to the underfunding of the department, but we are not folding arms. We have an ecosystem that is built in place which seeks to bring all the stakeholders that are involved, we can provide for both financial and nonfinancial sustainability. We have looked at the challenges ...
Mr N S L KWANKWA: On a point of order, Chairperson.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr F D Xasa): There is a sound disruption. What is the point of order?
Mr N S L KWANKWA: Chairperson, I wanted the disruption to be corrected, please.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr F D Xasa): Hon members, please let us respect the speaker on the floor. Thank you very much.
Continue, hon Minister.
The MINISTER OF SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT: Thank you, hon
Chairperson. We are responding directly to the problem of inadequate infrastructure for micro businesses and traders. We have since established a number of facilities that are shared facilities. In this financially year, as committed we will be establishing seven more. This is meant to be accommodate the burden of rentals to the micro traders that we have.
We are implementing Informal and Micro Enterprise Development Programme that the hon Kwankwa made reference to. We have set aside this year R20 million. We continue to engage with the big co-corporates to contribute as part of the Enterprise and Supplier Development, ESD, Programmes.
We have established the Township and Rural Enterprise Programme which provide a step-up platform for informal businesses in the townships and rural areas. We have partnered
with the Wholesale and Retail Sector Education and Training Authority, Seta, in providing training and stock that must be given to spaza shops and general dealers in order to reclaim that economy, both in our local areas in terms of villages and townships.
We are providing support to the Micro Finance Programme that is rendered through Small Enterprise Finance Agency, Sefa. We have disbursed about R3,2 billion as things stand. This year we are targeting 90 000 micro finance companies that must benefit.
Looking at the legislative element in terms of the policy, we have as government the National Informal Business Upliftment Strategy which provide its policy interventions that addresses social exclusion and interventions for individuals and firms to operate informally.
Additionally there are two new policies that we have put in place. One that looks at tackling the credit gap and it talks to the SMME and co-operative funding both formal and informal the funding policy will be dealing with those and the one that has been released by the National Treasury on financial inclusion.
Again this is meant to ensure that we are able to provide interventions that will derisk and enable micro enterprises both formal and informal.
We are addressing red tapes as a result we have brought one legislation as things stand to Parliament and we are in a process of bringing the second one the other one seeks to establish unfair practices that are in place and deal with them in informal and formal enterprises.
The Businesses Act seeks to deal with the inadequate price processing in terms of the fees that are charged by the different municipalities and the different frameworks that are provided and therefore given an opportunity for the Minister to intervene when needs arise.
We are also establishing intergovernmental structures on business regulation and business licensing in order to help municipalities improve on the local economic development strategies that will address the gap that the hon Kwankwa is talking about of ensuring that we can dedicate a particular number of procurement including directing our spatial planning and who ever that come and invest must follow the LAD strategy as approved by a municipality.
There is still much more to do, but we remain unwavering in our commitment. I quote directly from the ANC’s 55th National Conference resolution:
To build an economy which is inclusive and in which new businesses are able to emerge and flourish, where black people women and young South Africans are able to advance at all levels and all areas of the economy and where townships and rural economies are able to grow.
Hon members, working together, we believe we can turn the tide around and of course we call upon all the hon members that are seated here, their friends and families to make sure that we continue to support informal traders. I thank you, hon Chairperson.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr F D Xasa): Thank you very much, hon Minister. We did not recognise you well when you started, we now recognise you. Can we now move to the DA, the hon Krüger.
Mr H C C KRÜGER: Hon Chair, unfortunately, I am also hit by the electricity outages, so I would rather keep my camera off. If it is okay with you?
The ACTING CHAIRRPERSON (Mr F Xasa): Yes, it is okay.
Afrikaans:
Mnr H C C KRÜGER: Hierdie toespraak is vir al ons oumas wat hulle goedere op die straat verkoop om ’n lewe te maak en hul families te onderhou. Saluut!
English:
Chairperson, if you listen to the Minister, it is no wonder that informal businesses for the ANC they will not part. South Africa’s informal economy is characterized by traders such as spaza shops, sidewalk-hawkers and in public places. The very nature of informal business activity makes it difficult to quantify the size of the sector. However, it is clear that the micro entrepreneurs make a noteworthy contribution to our economy. The sector appears to be growing despite very little support from the ANC-led government. They grow because of tenacity of the entrepreneurs who are brave enough to work every day in a very hostile environment to find ways to support themselves and their families. The labour advisory ... [Interjections.]
Ms M S KHAWULA: ... [Inaudible.]
The ACTING CHAIRRPERSON (Mr F Xasa): I am not sure who is speaking, but can we be helped? We are warning ...
Mr H C C KRÜGER: Just keep my time, please.
The ACTING CHAIRRPERSON (Mr F Xasa): We are warning the speaker. Please do not disrupt.
Mr H C C KRÜGER: The Labour advisory company Adcorp, puts the economic contribution of the informal economy at 17,3% of GDP and estimates that more than 6,2 million people are employed in the sector. The ease of doing business with the sector has not been a priority for the ANC-led government and businesses in the informal economy continue to face severe real growth inhibitors. These range from, but are not limited to, a lack of information on opportunities for funding to a lack of support, infrastructure, including sanitation and transport services.
Afrikaans:
Munisipaliteite is die doring in die vlees vir hierdie kleinsake. Amptenare gee nie ’n flenter om nie. Hulle laat entrepreneurs in die duister aangaande die registrasie van permittee en die rompslomp verwant aan die invul van vorms. En
in die meeste gevalle kan die entrepreneur dit nie bekostig om na die naaste munisipaliteit te reis nie.
Plaaslike verondenings diskrimineer teen die informele besigheidsektor, deur die afwesigheid van standaardtariewe Daar word ook geen voorsiening vir die sogenaamde oorlewingshandelaars gemaak nie. Hulle stoei en kreun om kop bo water te hou, sonder dat die regering ’n vinger verroer om hulle te help - nie eens ’n bliep op die ANC se radarskerms nie.
Kleinsake-bedrywighede word van bakboord na stuurboord verskuif en entrepreneurs het geen sekerheid van hulle staanplek waar handel gedryf moet word nie. As gevolg van plaaslike regering wat faal om vir hierdie besighede spasie nader aan hulle mark te skep, word die gereg soms in eie hande geneem en word handel in elke denkbare plekkie of hoekie bedryf.
Die skud van goedere van informele handelaars is ’n onding en die boetes gepaard met die aksies van die munisipaliteite is gewoonlik die laaste spyker in die doodskus van hierdie handelaars.
Die regering moet ophou baas en Klaas speel en eerder met die plaaslike burgery praat, om oplossings vir hierdie dapper handelaars te vind. Internasionale sukses is immers ’n bewys dat, wanneer daar ’n totale gemeenskapstrategie gevolg word, kan dit tot voordeel van almal strek.
English:
Improving the ease of doing business for the informal sector in South Africa is not only a matter of economic importance but also a matter of social justice. These businesses are the backbone of many communities providing employment and economic opportunities to the marginalized and the vulnerable. To unlock the full potential, we must address the barriers they face by fostering an environment that supports and empowers informal businesses, we can promote inclusive economic growth, reduce poverty, and build a more resilient economy for all South Africans.
It is our collective responsibility to ensure that informal sector is no longer marginalized. South Africa requires a comprehensive approach to address the needs of informal traders. The implementation of policies must benefit those who play vital roles in the informal economy. Government must recognize the informal sector and implement policies that
enable its growth. South Africa can harness the potential of these businesses to drive economic development, reduce poverty and create a more inclusive and resilient economy for all her citizens, together we can create a South Africa with doing business in the informal sector. It is not just easier but also a pathway to a bigger future for social protection for all.
In less than nine months, the multi-party charter will take over the South African government. It will rescue the entire small business sector including the grannies that sell apples. Under the transparent, honest, and caring government, the true positive change for formal business will be there for anyone to see? But for this to happen, the citizens of this beautiful country need to ensure that they are registered to vote in the next year's elections. So, I urge you to visit check.da.org.za to ensure that you are registered to vote and together we can be back on track. Thank you.
Mr M MANYI: Hon Chairperson ...
IsiXhosa:
... makhe ndenze amagqabantshintshi, ndibethe koomofu ndenze nje.
English:
House Chair, let us contextualise what is meant by a policy approach focussed on the informal economy to address inequality, poverty, and unemployment. Over 11 million people are actively seeking employment daily but cannot find work.
Some have even given up. This accounts for 42,1% of the labour force, individuals who by age qualified to participate in the economy and offer their labour in exchange for income. More than 61,1% of the population of South Africa leaves below the upper middle-income threshold of 6,85$. As of today, that amounts to about R130 a day. Most of our people survive on less than R130 a day. I know some animals in Hyde Park and Sandton that live a much more lavish lifestyle than most people.
Moreover, we are discussing a country with a Gini Co-efficient index of 63, which measures the disparity between the haves and the have nots. Just to put matters into perspective, a Gini Co-efficient index of zero represents perfect equality, whilst a score closer to one hundred signifies extreme inequality. At 63, South Africa is now confirmed that it has the highest inequality levels in the world. This is even worse than even during apartheid days. Indeed, even this Sixth Administration is failing the country. Chairperson,
additionally, racial undertones characterise inequality. The beneficiaries of apartheid predominantly Caucasians continues to reap its benefit, while the majority of Africans in the main remain relegated to apartheid designed squatter camps facing long commutes and poor wages. You earn, but you remain poor. People live from hand to mouth if they live at all.
Proposing that these challenges can be addressed solely through a policy focus on the informal sector is both misguided and an indictment of the governing party.
Many find themselves in the informal economy due to circumstances beyond their control, not by choice. Individuals are not selling toys in the busy intersections for the fun of it. It is about our mothers, it is about our survival, and it is about making sure that people put bread on the table. Our mothers do not wake up at 3am to face the harassment by metro police while selling vegetables on the central business district street by choice. It is essential to distinguish between the informal economy and small businesses. The informal economy in South Africa differs from those in other developed or developing countries. While South Africa terms informal economy often lacks a technical skills or capital foundation. The crux of the issue, Chairperson, lies in land ownership patterns a discussion that people do not want to
enter. We must expropriate all land, placing all land under the custody of the state for equitable redistribution.
Nationalising strategic economic sectors, especially banks and mines, is also non-negotiable. Building a competent state and government capacity is crucial, paving the way for the abolishment of these corrupt tenders while we form the foundation for localising and industrialising South Africa.
Our people deserve access to free quality education, health care, housing, and sanitation. People need flush toilets. We must champion a robust industrialisation programme to create jobs to give our people dignified jobs. We cannot continue to be an assembly centre of the world we must have our own industries in this country. This approach should form the foundation for transitioning those in the informal sector to formalise small and medium-sized enterprises. Regulatory streamlining is possible, and we can innovate a banking system tailored for small businesses.
Last but one, addressing the staggering unemployment, poverty and inequality rates cannot be achieved solely within the bounds of the informal sector. It is going to fail if we think it that way. We in the Economic Freedom Front, Freedom Fighters will demonstrate this when we take over from the
governing party in 2024. The year 2024 is the year of the EFF. The EFF will rule this country and show the masses of this people ... [Interjections.]
Ms M MODISE: You are dreaming, you are just dreaming.
Mr M MANYI: Chairperson, can you call these ANC people to order? They are failing to run the country they cannot even conduct themselves with dignity on such a platform. [Interjections.]
Mr E T MYENI: ... [Inaudible.]
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr F Xasa): I have done that. I have just called them to order. Continue. Thank you. Hon members, please allow him to conclude.
Mr M MANYI: Let me conclude by saying that we have got very positive feedback as the EFF that people of this country cannot wait to remove the ANC and replace it with the EFF. Everyone, young and old are looking for the EFF-led government to take over. We cannot wait to install the commander-in- chief, Julius Malema, at the Union Buildings. Thank you, Chair.
Mr I M GROENEWALD: Chairperson, we should be honest with each other. Currently, government is restricting the informal sector and not enabling it. The informal economy is an untapped sector and has the potential to alleviate poverty and unemployment. With public transport constituting about 10% of consumer budget owing to fuel price hikes, there is a growing trend towards localisation of spend. This favours the vendors in the informal sector.
But even though the sector is a significant component of the economy, with more than 2,5 million people employed in the sector and is contributing about 6% to the gross domestic product, GDP, it is underestimated and lacks policy support. If policy approach does not recognise the significant role the informal sector plays, government will fail in any effort to eradicate poverty and unemployment. The ANC government fails to create an enabling environment that supports small businesses. Government’s financial support projects fail because of corruption. Structural constraints impede inclusive economic growth. Over-regulation, unnecessary red tape, incompetence of government officials, and a lack of basic service delivery hampers small and micro businesses.
Simplification of regulation will foster an environment that is conducive to growth and by extension, job creation. Proper co-ordination and consultation between municipalities and informal business operators are also needed. Issues should be prioritised that promote growth and development. This includes basic service delivery and infrastructure development. How can any business operate without access to water and electricity? The failures of the ANC government in these regards hinders small businesses. South Africa needs a government that enables and fosters the informal sector instead of restricting it.
Through enabling policies, access to microfinancing, structural and regulatory reform, the potential of millions of South Africans can be untapped, thereby addressing the pressing issues of inequality, poverty, and unemployment that plague society. Thank you Chair.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Chairperson, thank you very much. Yes, indeed, I think there’s general agreement that the informal sector of the economy is one of the many sectors of the economy where change around policy, the thinking around how to address some of these challenges where we agree fully. And indeed, we agree with the Minister when she said that, perhaps the role of municipalities and in particular how they deal and
empower the sectors and how they used to be better co- ordinated between the three spheres of government.
Yes, one of the problems is that we have witnessed it wherever we go in the majority of instances that at municipal level, the metro police officers, the law enforcement agencies at municipal level tend to harass in some municipalities, the informal sector of the economy and not understand the strategic importance to alleviating poverty, to issues of job creation and to issues of dealing with inequality.
The other issue is, I would like to appeal to the governing parties in particular. While it is easy for the ANC to blame the DA but they are both governing parties. Perhaps they need to sit and reflect in the mirror.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr F D Xasa): Can I disrupt you hon Kwankwa.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Yes.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr F D Xasa): My Table Staff is saying you should be closing the ... I am not sure if you have a problem with there.
IsiXhosa:
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Hayi, ndiyavala kaloku ngoku.
USIHLALO WENDLU OBAMBELEYO (Mnu F D Xasa): Hayi, akukagqitywa masicele uxolo.
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Ndicinga ukuba kugqityiwe. Ndicinga ukuba
...
English:
... these other speakers are not present. I beg your pardon.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Mr F D Xasa): Thank you very much. So, the next speaker will be from GOOD. GOOD. The next speaker will then be from the ANC, hon April.
Mr H G APRIL: Chairperson and good day to the Minister and everybody on the platform. I hope I am audible. The National Development Plan has made projections that by the year 2023 there will be an estimated 2 million jobs that will be created by the informal sector in South Africa, which could greatly assist the long-standing goals of the National Development Plan, NDP which are reducing poverty, unemployment and inequality.
Government continues to view the informal sector as an important component to foster economic growth and development, as the formal sector approximately contributes 6% of gross domestic product, GDP and contributes one third of the country’s job creation in total. This is evident that we can achieve government’s goals through the informal sector when it comes to the economy and employment as per the in NDP, and further fast-tracks the aspect of integrated and inclusive rural economy.
Government and the private sector are always in robust discussions on how regulations are needed in the markets when it comes to formal sector or private sector motivating for less regulation, while government has been perceived to be more for regulations. We can all agree when it comes to regulations in the informal sector in having small businesses to comply has its own challenges. Regulation into informal sector should be from an informed position of the informal trade activities of the country, so that any regulation actions should not decrease the contribution made by the small businesses.
There needs to be an understanding that when we speak of regulation, that we are not trying to hamper small businesses
from doing what they do, but we want to empower them. Regulations should be practiced while adhering to the Constitution of South Africa, for the sector to continuously improve and strive to assist government in addressing challenges facing our country. We need to develop and provide support programmes for the sector. The ANC-led government is committed to continue making sure that there are enhanced skills in training in the sector through development and provision of comprehensive skills programmes for informal traders.
For such adequate training and development, the government will continue to provide adequate infrastructure for trade. With support programmes in place in the development of the informal sector, we have seen employment coming out of informal sector and we have seen during the time of COVID-19 that indeed, it is the informal sector that was hit the hardest.
The Department of Small Business Development partnered with Nedbank to provide R40 million to the informal fruit and vegetable traders, to assist them in restarting their businesses in our Township and Rural Entrepreneurship Programme, Trep. It is focused on township and the rural
development to assist micro and informal businesses rebuild and sustain development of these businesses.
There is a mismatch between available employment and the lack of critical skills to fill opportunities. The impact of informal sector development is seen through employment being drawn from the community where the informal activity which promotes inclusive growth comes from. Government has managed to foster social cohesion between migrants and South Africans to the informal sector where there is informal trade happening, and there are human interactions on a daily basis.
Government has made sure that through policy development at national level speak to the great significance of the informal sector in our community. But we have also outlined the role which should be played on a local level on how municipalities can assist in driving growth in the sector. Municipalities have been tasked to provide supportive and facilitative regulatory environment when it comes to policies policy implementation to enable informal traders to operate effectively.
The Business Act 72 of 1991 allows municipalities to adopt bylaws and policies which can assist in developing and
sustaining the growth that is provided by the sector while working within the certain limitations provided by the law. In order to continue development of the informal sector, the ANC- led government has engaged in research to understand the diverse nature of the informal sector in South Africa, where you find people working in small corners, others in hair salons just to make an example.
There are informal employees in formal firms who do not have job security. There are approximately 28% of citizens trading in the informal sector who can be regarded as self-employed. The sector can be their silver bullets to create jobs.
Government does recognise that women are still congested in lowest paid jobs in the informal economy of our country, and the informal sector is still dominated by previously disadvantaged groups in our country. For instance ...
Afrikaans:
... die oumas van wie jy praat, agb Kruger, is ons oumas, nie jou ouma nie. Ek moet nog eendag ’n wit ouma sien appels verkoop teen die straat.
English:
Reduction of barriers to finance to startup informal traders who provide the informal sector economy to challenge poverty and unemployment facing the country. The ANC-led government is providing a friendly operational environment for equity finance to fund small businesses as this forms part of our developing enterprises that are considered high risk investments. The ANC-led government continues with commercial banks to support viable startups, particularly those established by previously disadvantaged groups. This in addition to government’s own small business entities like – Small Enterprise Finance Agency, Sefa and Small Enterprise Development Agency, Seda.
The ANC-led government is further exploring other avenues like nonbanking financial intermediaries. We could also assist in the provision of finance for these startups. The ANC government continues to work with commercial banks to make the dreams of our people come true. I have twice today heard that there is a party called the economic freedom front plus, and I would want to say to the hon Jimmy Manyi, that maybe we see really amasela [thieves] who that is. I thank you.
An HON MEMBER: It is Mzwanele.
Mr T A LE GOFF: Hon Chairperson, it is impossible to be a public representative in any sphere of government in the Republic of South Africa and to be blind to the immensity of the public welfare crisis we presently face as a nation. I personally am extremely alarmed knowing that 47% of our population relies directly or indirectly on a permanent or temporary monthly grant from the national government. This essential support is vital for the survival of millions of South Africans, and it is the lifeblood of the informal economy. But it also exposes an inconvenient truth, which is our lack of resilience to absorb external economic shocks.
Unlike high income countries, we do not have a proverbial bottomless pot of gold. None of this is sustainable in the long-term without a growing economy and tax base. Our fiscus is already stretched to the point of breaking and it very well might just might, given the indefinite implementation of Stage
6 load shedding and the revelations just this week that the national government has run out of money and are now scrambling to find a response to a government induced public financial crisis of their own making.
We now face nothing less than the risk of becoming a completely failed state unless we start rapidly instituting
economic policy reforms like the Just Energy Transition Investment Plan, which can start growing our economy, and create millions of new green jobs in both the formal and informal sectors. This public welfare crisis is a symptom of a far greater and more dangerous underlying fundamental problem, that if it is left unchecked, poses a significant threat to our constitutional democracy. That is the leadership crisis we presently face in South Africa. Inequality, poverty, and unemployment are certainly contributed to our welfare crisis, but lack of leadership is the direct cause. I say this because the right leadership would by now, 29 years into our democracy, have implemented policies to make sure we do not hold the very embarrassing distinction of having the highest unemployment rate in the world. This is exactly what policy failure looks like and millions of South Africans are paying for these failures with their futures and their lives. The dream of a prosperous rainbow nation cannot be realized when 30,4 million South Africans live below the upper-bound poverty line. Between April and June 2023, the most recent Quarterly Labour Force Survey reported that 13 296 million South Africans are not economically active and have given up looking for a job altogether.
Colleagues, this is the pretext for massive social unrest - for our Arabs Spring - and it is the tinder on which our democracy will burn if sane and rational policy reforms are not urgently implemented. The truth is that we are beset by myopic policies which have sought to overregulate and constrain the private sector, and which have not supported job creation or the growth of the economy and have instead actively deterred private investment. This might come as a surprise to those who have never studied economics, but the government does not create jobs. Its role is to create an enabling environment so that jobs can be created by entrepreneurs and the private sector. And so, we should ask ourselves: Is this the present policy perspective of government? Is this the present policy approach focused on creating an enabling environment for job creation? And what does it look like? It is when a government spends money on delivering quality basic services, infrastructure, and upholds the rule of law. It is when a government like the DA-led Western Cape provincial government invests in renewable energy resilience programme aiming to reduce and then to eliminate load shedding altogether, while meeting its commitments to address climate change in record time. An enabling environment for job creation is the City of Cape Town’s R43 billion three- year Infrastructure Investment Plan, which is projected to
directly create 135 000 new jobs in Cape Town. The results of this programme are already remarkable. Four straight consecutive quarters of job growth, which have added 279 000 new jobs. It sets a new record - the highest number of people employed in Cape Town ever - one point seven million people today in Cape Town have jobs in the informal and formal economy. That is the benefit of a policy approach that is focused on job creation, which is guaranteed to reduce inequality, which is guaranteed to reduce poverty, and to reduce unemployment.
South Africans will have an opportunity to vote for the same policy approach for the entire country and to elect a DA national government in 2024. I thank you.
Mr F JACOBS: Chairperson, and greetings to the members on the platform, allow me to dedicate this speech to all the mamas and gogos in the informal sector. I am also a product of a mother that worked in the informal sector. My parents - my mother and my father - worked in the township of Mitchells Plain town centre, and the DA claims all these big victories, but she stands out in support of that township where the City of Cape Town is not providing adequate access to shelter. They are being continuously harassed as informal traders as the
Minister has alluded to. I think for me, the informal sector is the very lifeblood of many of our people and so we welcome this debate. We need to ensure that we create a thriving microeconomy. I mean, if you look at the Soweto market, if you look at all our townships, it’s a microcosm of our informal sector, it’s the hustle and bustle of the micro entrepreneurs that sell more than just goods. It is where they generate employment, it is where the money is recycled, where you have a circular economy, and where we support each other within that community. It also serves as a training ground for skills and entrepreneur development.
According to the recent statistics, these markets are ... [Inaudible.] ... Therefore, the ANC is committed to supporting implementation into the mainstream economy. We have inherited a very unequal concentrated economy and our policies are designed to look at how do we build an inclusive social partnership with all our people. There is a focus on the District Development Model, a policy which aligns local government, municipalities, and businesses around regional and broader economic objectives.
Contrary to misconception, regulation doesn’t stifle informal sectors, it provides its structure and validity. The ANC aims
to bridge the gap between informal and formal business. We encourage compliance, we encourage our people to register with Companies and Intellectual Property Commission, CIPC, encouraging them to have formalized banks so that we can also get a bigger tax base. At the same time, we also expand the social wage. We are encouraging our people to not only wait for handouts but hands up. We want to have a social wage accompanied by entrepreneurial skills and entrepreneurial paradigm for our people. So, schemes like financial literacy, small business grounds - as Minister has alluded to - subsidized commercial space. We are democratizing the entrepreneurial landscape. We are creating opportunities for micro businesses, spaza shops, and food stalls. So, we tap into our rich diversity, and we are saying that small businesses and local businesses are everybody’s business.
We are also putting emphasis on space allocation in municipalities, and rezoning policies to create a conducive environment. That is not happening in the City of Cape Town. We are encouraging local economic development. We are also saying that SA Local Government Association, Salga, must help us create bylaws that enable rather than stifle the into integration between big and small businesses. Capacity building is an ongoing plan for our people. We need to deal
with the deficit but ensure that no one is left behind. So, continuous entrepreneurial ... I think the Minister mentioned the training with the services Seta to ensure that we develop an entrepreneurial paradigm in our society.
Access to finance remains an issue and the government has blended finance. I think the Minister also spoke about it where we provide a loan facility of 5%, which is an affordable rate, and we are urging our people to pay back their loans at these low interest rates. We are also simplifying the application process.
Whilst others are creating fear mongering alarmists, the DA, the ANC is grappling with the real challenges of our communities. The growth in our townships and rural economy is a priority for us. We have township revitalization in our big cities where we say local is lekker, let’s buy local, and let’s ensure that our township revitalization programme takes place through public-private partnerships. We want these communities to be vibrant economic hubs. We must deal with the sceptics and those fear mongers that are the divide to divide us. We, as the ANC, whilst others can complain and nag, we are rolling up our sleeves and are building an integrated informal
sector, and we also ensure that we try and create inclusive spaces for our people to create opportunities.
Informal sector is also very important to deal with poverty, inequality, and unemployment. The programmes like the Township and Rural Entrepreneurship Programme, TREP, is starting to make good impact. We are focusing on creating self-employment. We are focusing on creating opportunities where people in the townships and rural areas can apply artisanal training and focus. We also have the policy of localization and beneficiation as a key cornerstone of our industrialization policy promoting local businesses. We are calling upon big business to actively support our local supply chain entrepreneurial development programme because we believe that if we focus on localization, we can reduce our carbon footprint and ensure that the local supply chain is also helped by the regional economy. The African Free Trade Agreement ... [Inaudible.] ... plus is all of those so that as we become stronger in our localization space, we can become a global player.
As the ANC, we also envisage that our businesses won’t stay all micro and informal businesses. We want them to become small and medium enterprises. We know that household names
like ... for examples, started out as an informal business and now it’s a thriving national business.
So, we call upon all of us, the opposition, and stakeholders to unite in the same endeavor. Our policies and mechanisms are not partisan, but it is shaped by our universal desire for a prosperous, equitable and inclusive South Africa. We stand at the historical juncture. We cannot be passive observers, but active participants. The informal sector is not an alternative, it is a bedrock on which the edifice of our new South Africa can be built, a South Africa that is economically robust and socially equitable. The question is not whether we should invest in informal sector, but how swiftly and how efficiently we can do it. Let us as this Parliament be the crucible where we forge new policies for inclusive growth.
Let’s put outside our political differences and ensure that we collectively support the sector towards a prosperous, equitable and sustainable South Africa.
Our future is teeming with untapped potential and promise, and the informal sector can be a lynch meant for our collective endeavors. As the ANC, we will lead this process and seize the moment, and guided by our shared vision and fortified by our collective and collaborative action.
In closing, as we look forward to a promise of a new South Africa, let us remember that following markets in these stalls that lie in our streets, and in these hands of our local artisans lie an untapped potential to drive our nation forward. I thank you, Chairperson.
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Chairperson and thank you to all the contributors. Colleagues, I think we all agree that we need to work collectively to try and address not only the challenges that are faced by the informal sector, but to implement measures that are going to help us to transform the South African economy. Hon Jacobs is quite right that the informal sector, and considering its size, it forms the bedrock of our economic activity and what we are trying to do. But I want to appeal to the Minister, with whom I agree with what she said today and some of the initiatives, but to also say that the resources that are provided to small businesses are not adequate for them to be able to meet the funding challenges or the funding requirements of that sector. There should be significant chunk of money that is channeled towards the sector to try and transform the South African economy. But to also address the issue that hon Manyi said, the issue of addressing market concentration. The sectors in our society, especially in the private sector, are very oligopolistic in
nature. There is room if some small businesses can be supported for them to enter those spaces if we come up with a regulatory framework that will help us to address those issues.
Minister, I think the issue about how they should be formalized needs a complete review. Perhaps what they require is a digital profile rather than asking them to register via the CIPC and then incur costs trying to file tax returns with Sars and all the other manner of problems that they incur because of the regulatory framework that we have. But also, there is an opportunity now to use the Post Office for it to come up with products and services that are going to be responsive to that sector. But I don’t know how we can achieve that when there was a decision not to make any financial injection into the PostBank, because then it will not be able to serve that particular purpose, a typical example would be that you would need to develop insurance policies that speak to that sector in particular because that would be the only bank that would then be in rural areas and small towns, and so on. These are issues we need to address. But also, the development plan of municipalities at local government level. How can we not? We know that there are Mama’s who sell vegetables at taxi ranks and what not, but we build taxi ranks
all the time that do not consider the informal sector and how to accommodate it. We build malls and townships that take away businesses from our people, but we don’t consider the informal sector and how we could help to formalize it. We call it development when we bring big business that must take over money from the townships and send it to Stellenbosch and other communities. We don’t call it development when we need to invest in our own people and make sure that they have trading spaces, and they have rights to operate in these areas. Make it mandatory so that the informal sector and the small business sector is incorporated into the development of our economy. Thank you, hon Chair.
Debate concluded.
The mini plenary rose at 16:05.
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