Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 12 Sep 2023

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Minutes

UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
TUESDAY, 12 SEPTEMBER 2023
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Watch here: Plenary

The House met at 14:00.

The House Chairperson, Mr C T Frolick, took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.

AN INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION INTO THE DOCKING OF THE LADY R

(Member’s Statement)

Mr T N MMUTLE: House Chair, the ANC welcomes the outcome of an independent investigation into the docking of the Lady R vessel at Simon's Town Naval Base in the Western Cape, which has found no evidence to support the allegations that South Africa supplied weapons to Russia during the current Ukraine, Russia conflict. The investigation was necessitated by allegations of a serious nature that were levelled against the South African government, the South African National Defence

Force and Armscor by some opposition leaders and foreign nations’ agencies and their representatives, who seek to deliberately falsify the South African government’s standing and commitment in the Russia, Ukraine conflict.

The allegations levelled against our country were deliberate and carefully orchestrated to tarnish the image of our country and our standing in the world, just because South Africa refuses to take sides in a war between Russia and Ukraine and also refused to break its commitment to its policy of resolving conflict through peaceful means and dialogue. The panel report exonerated the country and found no evidence to support the claims made by the opposition and their ... [Inaudible.] ... agencies. [Time expired.] The ANC therefore is satisfied with the report. Thank you very much.

THE IMPACT OF SEVERE POWER CUTS

(Member’s Statement)

Mrs M B HICKLIN: House Chair, the DA in the Western Cape has set aside R7 billion over the next three years, to mitigate the impact of severe power cuts through its energy resilience programme and to allow private-sector stakeholders to become part of the power crisis solution.

Minister Mantashe, you should hang your head in shame. Residents living in the Midrand constituency, my constituency in Ivory Park, Ward 78, have had enough of your weak excuses and your permanently invertebrate state. Since 2019, City Power has been calling for the replacement of Eskom transformers to reconnect street lights and electrical connections, making it safer for women and children to get home, once the sun sets. Because of its complete inability to protect its revenue collection, Eskom refuses. The result is that thousands of paying customers remain without street lights and electricity, making them vulnerable to GBV and rape.

Minister Cele, in your own words, luckily, 60% of the women raped here are raped only once. Ivory Park and Tembisa are in the country’s top 30 hotspots for GVB and rape. Ministers, you are derelict in your duty. You have failed to care for the vulnerable in our country. You have failed South Africa by your lack of caring. It is time to implement ... [Time expired.] ... solutions.

CONSUMER INFLATION IN SOUTH AFRICA

(Member’s Statement)

Ms P N ABRAHAM: Hon House Chair, consumer inflation is the lowest in two years. The annual consumer inflation slumped to 4,7% in July, from 5,4% in June. This rating is the lowest in

20 months, since October, when the rate was 5%. Food, nonalcoholic beverages, goods and services are the main contributors to the CPI decrease. According to Statistics SA, consumer prices increased by 0,9% on average.

Transport became the main upward driver of inflation in 2021-22. Easing inflationary pressures in South Africa is encouraging for the economy. Lower inflation can stimulate consumer spending and promote economic growth. Food inflation remains a concern, but the downward trend offers hope for improved affordability and a positive impact on consumer purchasing power. Thank you.

COMPLAINTS FROM STUDENTS AT RUSSIAN UNIVERSITIES

(Member’s Statement)

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, we do have a member in the House who will take this statement. We will come back to you when there is another opportunity.

Mr M SHIKHWAMBANA: House Chair, the Premier of Mpumalanga visited Russia to investigate a series of complaints from over 150 medical and engineering students from Russian universities. These students were sponsored under the Ephraim Mogale Bursary Scheme. Upon completion of their studies, all these graduates are unable to register in their respective professions. The fact was confirmed by the Premier.

The Mpumalanga Provincial Government paid funds to a company named Racus, without any legal agreement. Government officials enrolled their own children in these bursary schemes, which were intended for children from disadvantaged families. The chief director, who was responsible for managing this bursary scheme is currently suspended. However, he has not been held accountable and was even allowed to withdraw his pension. We will not be surprised if he is already employed somewhere in government.

Currently, over 250 students remained in Russia, with many still facing unresolved issues of accommodation, stipends or even registration. The Minister of Higher Education refuses to take responsibility and awaits actions from the graduates, who have been idled since 2021, following the completion of the

...Why has Mr Ramaphosa declined to sign a proclamation of allowing the SIU to investigate these matters. Why is Ramaphosa shielding corrupt officials involved in these Mpumalanga Ephraim Mogale Bursary Scheme? But, we are not surprised, because even yesterday, you have proven ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, please take your seat. Your time has expired, hon member. Take your seat. Hon member of the EFF, you only have one minute and 30 seconds to make a statement. When you are called to order, you must respect the Chair. Hon Radebe, why did you rise?

Mr B A RADEBE: Chairperson, on a point of order: I was rising on Rule 82 that we cannot refer to each other on first name terms.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Yes, the member is correct. When you refer to another member or to the President, we must do so in respectful terms. Please, keep that in mind when you do statements or when you address the House. Okay. It’s just a reminder to all members. We refer to each other in respectful terms.

THE DAM WALL COLLAPSE IN JAGERSFONTEIN

(Member’s Statement)

Afrikaans:

Mnr W W WESSELS: Huisvoorsitter, gister, ’n jaar gelede het die Jagersfontein mynslikramp, die dorp en Kopanong Plaaslike Munisipaliteit in die Vrystaat getref. Die Bench-Marks- stigting het ’n verslag bekend gestel, wat bevind het dat geen van die slagoffers se menswaardigheid ’n jaar later herstel is nie. Daar is ook bevind dat daar geen amptelike ondersoek ten opsigte van die ramp al geskied het nie. Dit is ’n skande!

Wat duidelik is, is dat die Departemente van Minerale Hulpbronne, Water en Sanitasie en Omgewing gefaal het om die betrokke myne effektief te reguleer en hul oorsigrol te vervul. Die Departement van Water en Sanitasie het veral gefaal, deur om slegs die mynmaatskappy se verslae as die waarheid te aanvaar, sonder om self enige inspeksie te doen nie. Hierdie ramp kon voorkom gewees het.

Dit is ook duidelik dat dit nie slegs die slikramp is wat hierdie inwoners se lewens bedreig en ontwrig nie. Hierdie inwoners gaan gebuk onder ’n watertekort, as gevolg van uitstaande skuld aan die waterverskaffer, Bloem Water. Dit is ’n skande dat hierdie inwoners in die steek gelaat word en dat die grootste ramp nie slegs die mynslik is nie, maar dat die ANC die grootste ramp in hierdie mense se lewens is. Ek dank u.

SOUTH AFRICA HOSTED A TREMENDOUSLY SUSSESSFUL 15TH BRICS SUMMIT

(Member’s Statements)

Mr M D MONAKEDI (ANC): The ANC applauds the South African government, its people, and the country for hosting a successful 15 Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa, BRICS Summit held at the Sandton Convention Centre from 22-24 August 2023. The summit was attended by the five BRICS member countries along with representatives of 61 other countries, of which 46 of the countries that attended were from our continent, Africa. Also in attendance was the United Nations Secretary-General Mr Antonio Guterres.

The Summit made great decisions that have tremendous outcomes for our country, Africa and the World. The fundamental decision taken at the summit was the adoption of the historic Johannesburg II Declaration with many key principal positions unanimously agreed upon. Key amongst them is the call for a comprehensive reform of the United Nations, including its Security Council which will assist in bringing about a more just and equitable world, as well as the call for the international institutions to be more democratic and more representative.

The inclusion of Argentina, Ethiopia, Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates as new members of the group will strengthen beneficial co-operation and trade with our country in the political, economic, and financial matters. These key developments, as outlined by the summit, will contribute significantly to taking BRICKS and the African continent to greater heights. Thank you. [Time expired.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, please keep in mind that you only have one minute and 30 seconds. You will get an opportunity when your party affords you to make a speech. It is Member’s Statements now.

SA SOCIAL SECURITY AGENCY OLD AGE GRANTS DELAYS

(Member’s Statement)

Ms A L A ABRAHAMS (DA): Hon Chair, last week South African senior citizens, many of whom we owe our freedom and democracy to, were once again failed by the ANC-led government, stripping away their constitutional rights to have their human dignity respected and protected unable to withdraw their old age grant, left humiliated and traumatised at retailer tills and ATMs. The recent apologies from Sassa and the Post Bank meant absolutely nothing to the senior who was stranded at pay points in disbelief that the insufficient funds printed on their slips could be true. Many went to bed hungry, some forced to take medication on empty stomachs. This is elder abuse at the hands of the ANC. In South Africa an Old Age Grant sustains an entire household. This is a fact which meant last week there were children whose constitutional rights were also indirectly violated by the ANC-led government. The official statements from Post Bank and Sassa should have just said, Oops! we did it again.

The statements often contradicted personal accounts from beneficiaries, some which I personally witnessed while at the

retailers. Clearly, the excuse of payment glitches is not being taken seriously as it is a recurring problem, which can only mean that the ANC does not care. Why would they? Should the elderly ever rise up again, Minister Zulu will simply hop in, in a casspir and watch as SA Police Service water cannons back into obedience. It is evident that instead of learning from our oppressive history, the ANC are doomed to repeat it.

NURSES AND ASSISTANT NURSES PICKETTED TO THE OFFICES OF THE EASTERN CAPE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH IN EAST LONDON

Mr N L S KWANKWA (UDM): House Chair, in June last year, hundreds of enrolled nurses and nursing assistants at hospitals and clinics in rural areas in the Eastern Cape picketed outside the Eastern Cape provincial department of health in East London, claiming that the department owes them what they call rural allowances. As per the Public Health Welfare Sector Bargaining Council resolution number 2 of 2004, rural allowance is a benefit that is paid to all health care workers who are employed by the Department of Health on a

full-time basis and who are residing in rural and semirural areas. However, in the Eastern Cape the department apparently is only paying 28 nurses this allowance out of a possible 3000 nurses who are enrolled.

According to the nurses this allowance is supposed to be between eight and 12%, which they have not received and many over the past couple of months, have embarked on a number of unlawful protests in order to get the attention of the country and government to this matter.

IsiXhosa:

Sicela ngoku urhulumente abahoye kuba kudala abanye bade barhoxiswa bakhutshelwa ngaphandle ngenxa yokulwela ezi mali bangazifumaniyo. Siyanibona ningooBRICKS SUMMIT. Niqhube kakukhle torhwana kula ngqungquthela masinincome.

THE ANC COMMENDS POLICE FOR FOILING CASH-IN-TRANSIT ROBBERY

(Member’s Statement)

Ms M A MOLEKWA (ANC): The ANC commends the police officers, but the job well done in preventing a cash in transit heists. The ensuing shootout with the suspects resulted in the killing of 18 suspect robbery in Makhado, Limpopo province. Sixteen males and two females were killed and one police officer was injured during the shootout. The suspects were believed to be planning a cash-in transit heist when they were approached by

the police and were believed to be responsible for similar crimes in other provinces such as Mpumalanga and Gauteng.

As a result of the police operations 10 vehicles, including several high-powered performance vehicles and seven automatic rifles were seized. The most important factor in that operation is the police ability to destroy a syndicate possibly responsible for several cash-in transit robberies in Limpopo, Mpumalanga and Gauteng. The success of the police operation was due to the co-operation of Limpopo and Mpumalanga forces, working together to check on the syndicate. The ANC applauds the team who had worked hard to stamp the authority of the state and their decisive handling of this criminal and wish the senior police officer who was wounded during the shootout, a speedy recovery. Thank you.

CITY OF CAPE TOWN ELECTRICITY TARIFF

(Member’s Statement)

Ms J C N MKHWANAZI ANC): We are concerned at the arrogance displayed by the DA towards its citizens and its unlawful 17% electricity tariffs imposed by the City of Cape Town Metropolitan Municipality for the 2023/24 financial year which

contravenes the distribution license provided by the National Energy Regulator of South Africa, Nersa. The National Energy Regulator of South Africa, Nersa rejected the city application for an above guideline’s electricity tariff increase of 17,6%. The National Energy Regulator of South Africa said the city should enforce a 15,1-electricity tariff increase on 01 July 2023. The city has since applied for the High Court to have the National Energy Regulator of South Africa, 15,1%- Electricity Tariff Increase Proposal Review, which Nersa is expected to oppose.

Hon House Chair by applying for an above guideline electricity tariff hike due to the load shedding, declining electricity sales due to the energy efficiency and the people beginning to use self-generation in the form of small-scale generation, seeks to penalize the consumer who has no control over the load shedding, and it is not of their making. The customers owning self-generation facilities still pay for the cost of being connected to the grid through applicable network charges. [Time expired.]

DA APPLAUDS THE CITY OF CAPE TOWN METROPOLITAN MUNICIPALITY MAYOR ON HANDLING THE TAXI STRIKE

(Member’s Statement)

Ms B M VAN MINNEN: House Chair, Cape Town was recently wracked by a taxi strike caused by Santaco resisting city law enforcement doing their jobs and enforcing the National Land Transport Act, which authorizes the impounding of offending vehicles. The City of Cape Town Metropolitan Municipality Mayor, Jordan Hill Lewis, is to be congratulated for his firm stance on this matter in the face of violence and intimidation. The calling off the strike is indeed a victory for the rule of law and the safety of commuters.

It is thus unfortunate that the Minister of Transport, hon Chikunga, insisted on siding with SA National Taxi Association, Santaco and accusing the city of acting illegally and in so doing not only illustrated her ignorance of the national legislation, but also her bias towards the ongoing illegality resulting in the empowerment in the first place. It is further deeply unfortunate that the Minister clearly does not care about the safety of commuters and their ability to access safe transport in the city. However, given that the Passenger Rail Service Agency, Prasa lines in Philippi have been occupied for the last four years and the lack of progress in clearing those tracks, it is clear that she and the ruling

ANC have no regard for the interests of the poor and vulnerable, and their need to be able to access safe and affordable public transport. Thank you.

ASPRIRING ELECTRICIANS FACE RESTRICTIVE CERTIFICATION PROCESS

(Member’s Statement)

Ms C N MKHONTO: House Chair, Dr Blade Nzimande, the Minister of Higher Education, together with his colleague responsible for Employment and Labour, Mr Thulas Nxesi, remain passive. Meanwhile, hundreds of aspiring electricians face an expensive, prolonged and unnecessarily restrictive certification process. Many of these individuals come from disadvantaged families, are competent and are willing to undergo this process. However, they lack the necessary refunds.

Even when they secure financial support to complete the required assessments and test, the qualification process as an electrician spans two years because of administration and incompetence. During this period, they cannot practice their trade due to a moderator from the Energy and Water Seta, who at times chooses not to assess their exam papers. When that

moderator finally decides to assess, there often arise another obstacle. An official from the Department of Higher Education might then choose not to review the files or issue statements of results.

After all this, they must wait an additional six months to obtain the certificate they require to register with the Department of Labour as satisfied electricians. Then, the Department of Labour may take yet another year to issue the certification. Why are black artisans subjected to such treatment? Why does the process appear more straight forward for white electricians and those with financial means? [Time expired.]

THE NEW FORENSIC LAB WILL ALLEVIATE THE BACKLOG FOR SAPS INVESTIGATIONS

(Member’s Statement)

Ms G P MAREKWA: The ANC welcomes the new DNA laboratory officially opened by ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, just speak into the microphone please, you can’t hear you.

[Interjections.] There is also a disturbance on the virtual platform. Deputy Minister Tolashe, can you switch off your microphone? [Interjections.] May I ask the ICT to disconnect the microphone of the hon Deputy Minister. Please proceed, hon member.

Ms G P MAREKWA: The ANC welcomes the new DNA laboratory officially opened by President Cyril Ramaphosa on 31 August 2023 at the Eben Donges Building in Gqeberha, Eastern Cape. The new laboratory is the expansion of the police forensic science biology lab and is set to speed up investigations into gender-based violence and femicide. Rapists and other dangerous criminals have been freely roaming the streets of Mzansi for years due to a backlog in the police forensic sciences lab. These backlogs have resulted in delays in court cases, and in some instances, accused individuals have been released due to the backlog in DNA analysis from crime scenes.

The improved forensic capabilities should expedite investigations and help our police build strong cases with solid evidence to enable the successful conviction of perpetrators. People who commit crimes against women and children have no place in our society. The lab is equipped

with advanced equipment for DNA analysis, which will improve turnaround times from crime scenes.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Cope! Is there is a statement from Cope? [Interjections.] There’s a disturbance on the virtual platform or the microphone of the Deputy Minister to Tolashe. I have asked the ICT to disable that microphone. Please continue, hon Lekota.

POOR SERVICE DELIVERY ISSUES

(Member’s Statement)

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Chairperson, over many years of struggle we hoped that when freedom shall have come, our people would at least have some water to drink where they stay, that they would have schools for their children and hospitals to take care of those who are sick. We thought that the country would become better and better than what it had been in the years in which our townships were falling apart, but the situation has degraded and is becoming worse all the time.

In cities like Bloemfontein, we cannot even walk on a clean side of the road. I do think that this House must really

reflect on this. What is it that is stopping us from taking control of the resources of our country, to devoting them and budgeting them to deal with all of these issues - things which will make life better. Our children, if they can get education, will tomorrow be able to build a better future. I thank you, sir.

ACT AGAINST LOAN SHARKS

(Member’s Statement)

Ms N H MASEKO-JELE: A new report by the Stellenbosch University Law Clinic reveals that unscrupulous lenders use a bag of tricks to side-step the legal requirements of the garnishee order system, which limits the amount that can be deducted from an employee’s salary to a maximum of 25%. We also share the view that urgent intervention is needed to stop loan sharks from having up to 75% of vulnerable people’s wages deducted.

While these unscrupulous lenders continue to fleece vulnerable debtors, consumers have no money to buy food. It is stated that while garnishee orders remained a lucrative and secure collection instrument, it is difficult to issue them, so

creditors tend to use alternative methods to keep expanding their lucrative business enterprises by extending reckless loans while continuing to reap the benefits of wage garnishment.

The findings and recommendations of the report have already been shared with the National Credit Regulator, the Credit Ombud and the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition. As lawmakers, we will need to develop legislation to protect vulnerable debtors against payroll deductions and unscrupulous lenders.

CRIMINALS BOMB MAKHADO MONEY DEPOT

NEW DNA LABORATORY OPENS IN GQEBERHA

(Minister’s Responses)

The MINISTER OF POLICE: Thank you very much, Chair. Indeed, we pass our congratulations to the team of police that ran the operation at Makhado simultaneously with the operation in Thohoyandou, while they were busy in exchange of fire for 90 minutes there - 90 minutes - when 19 people from the side of the criminals died.

We arrested five more in one safe house in Thohoyandou, where they were cars ready to carry their loot after they had bombed the depot - not the car. They were bombing a money depot in Makhado. Among those cars there was an ambulance that was going to carry money from Limpopo to Gauteng.

So, we congratulate the police for those people. We have picked up 11 eleven firearms: Seven AK74s; and three R5s. Chairperson, we wish for a speedy recovery of the lieutenant colonel who was shot in the leg.

On the DNA laboratory, I thought the hon Whitfield will be there when we were in his backyard to open one of the best laboratories ever by the President. We have cut down on the backlog of 241 126. Twenty-six are left. The members were there, and they listened. We have made sure that never should such a thing happen again. It will never happen again.

Chairperson, it is not only the DNA laboratory. It is also the forensics, chemistry and other things that are done in that city of Gqeberha. Thank you very much.

CONSUMER INFLATION IN SOUTH AFRICA POOR SERVICE DELIVERY ISSUES

(Minister’s Responses)

The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, LAND REFORM AND RURAL

DEVELOPMENT: Thank you very much, hon House Chairperson, hon members, I would like to comment on the statement made by the hon Abrahams when she was referring to the downward slide on the inflation, particularly the food inflation. I must say that we are indeed appreciative of what is happening, even though the consumers might have a longer time lag experiencing the prices that are lower than it is necessary. However, it is also indication that from the production side there is a lot that has been done by our farmers. If you look particularly at the grain this year, we have had a bumper season and we are hopeful that on other commodities we will see such a decline.

There are obviously concerns that have been with us, as a result of the global shocks on the food value chains, which we hope that if those are managed, we will again see the downward trend in inflation, particularly food inflation. I would like to comment on the issue that has been raised by the hon member regarding the hosting of the Brics. You know Summit, which indeed was preceded by a number of Ministerial meetings reflecting the depth of our relations amongst the Brics countries, which has also seen some opportunities,

particularly on market access when it comes to areas such as agriculture culture.

During this period of the Brics summit, we signed a protocol with China which opens a market access for avocado farmers to be able to send their avocados to China, which again will be a welcome opportunity for both commercial and smallholder farms in the avocado producing regions of our country. We will continue to explore further market opportunities amongst our Brics countries. Even the new members as we know that already a month ago, we got an opportunity to open-up meat access in Saudi Arabia, as well as reopening in China.

Hon Lekota, we understand indeed the issues that you are raising. It is for this reason since 1994 that we have focused on ensuring access to education. That is why the fact that one comes from a poor family does not deter you to be able to go to a school to acquire education, even to university with the support from the state, albeit the challenges that may be there. It is an indication that what we had fought for, we continue to work towards the transformation of our country.

It’s not going to be an easy road, but I think the 30 years does indicate a turn towards the right direction that all of us as South Africans would like to see. Thank you very much.

THE IMPACT OF SEVERE POWER CUTS THE DAM WALL COLLAPSE IN JAGERSFONTEIN

(Minister’s Responses)

The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES AND ENERGY: Thank you, hon

Chairperson and hon members, I have only two comments to make. The first one is, commend the DA on its desperate effort to succeed and create the Western Cape as a country. They will invest in eliminating load shedding. But I think, we share the concern together that the weakness of transmission lines on the coastal province is a big problem for all of us, whether it is the Northern Cape or the Western Cape or Eastern Cape.

So, I don’t know how they will deal with this issue when the transmission lines are weak. They are not available because the planning was to concentrate on transmission lines mainly on the coal belt where there was a source of energy. So, as we resolve the problems of load shedding, I want to appeal that we should work together and not imagine some myths of artificial solutions that will never work. A few months ago, the DA here was telling us to switch off coal and go to renewables. I am sure they are looking in developed countries now and see the reverse of that decision.

The second one, is the Jagersfontein. I wish we can work together with the Vryheidsfont Plus and go to the justice system in the Free State to reverse their decision to make Slime Dams competence of the Department of Water. It is a mineral issue. They must give it back to us, we want it. We have the competencies; we have the skills and that’s it. It was a wrong decision because De Beers took us to court, and they had money, and they got the award. So, please work with us. That should be reversed and then Mineral Resources and Energy must deal with Slime Dams. It is not only Jagersfontein. Potential of many in the Free State poses a big danger. Water Affairs is not a competent department for that issue. Thank you very much.

SA SOCIAL SECURITY AGENCY OLD AGE GRANTS DELAYS

(Minister’s Responses)

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Thank you very much, Chairperson, I am responding to the comment that was made by the member of the DA with regard to the payment of the social grants. I do want, Chairperson, to indicate that we are a caring government and we have been paying the social grants since 1994 without any payment of the social grants based on

any race, colour, creed, or gender. I am putting that to the member to say that there is just no way that we can wake up in the morning and not want to pay the social grants. I do want to say to the member and hon members that Minister Gungubele has already made statements with regard to the technical challenges that were faced by the Post Bank. However, we do not want to behave as a government that is not one government. We are one government and therefore, when there are challenges from a point of view of the Post Bank or the Post Office, we have to take collective responsibility and work towards resolving. We have already apologised to those that did not get their grants, and we have been assured by the Post Bank that those glitches that have been there, are being resolved. But I reject with contempt, for somebody to be standing up and telling us that we are not a caring government. When these social grants that we are paying that are now more than

18 million people, have been paid by this government of the African National Congress and that is a fact that cannot be changed. And the number of people who have been affected, yes, if one affected is a problem for us. But also, to pretend like all systems can always be perfect, we must accept that there are times when there are technical glitches that we need to deal with. So, this must not be made into a political football by those who have never even bothered about these social

grants in the past. They have never been there, and they never gave the social grants. So, for them to criticise us unconstructively, I always take constructive criticism because I know that as South Africans ... [Interjections.] For those who are saying when, they must come to the portfolio committee where I sit. It is one thing to be making noise here and you do not ever come to the portfolio committee to listen to me, listen to my department, and listen to my officials. At least, Abrahams, I can say she does sit in those meetings. So, when she stands up, she speaks from that angel.

IsiZulu:

Hhayi, laba abanye abathanda ukusibangela umsindo.

SOUTH AFRICA HOSTS A SUCCESSFUL BRICS SUMMIT RESPONSE OF THE INDEPENDENT PANEL ON LADY R

EDUCATION AND HEALTH DOMAIN REMAIN UNCHANGED IN SOUTH AFRICA

(Minister’s Response)

The MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION:

Chairperson and hon members, I wanted to comment on the matter that Minister Didiza spoke about, which was the Brics Summit, and to say thank you to all South Africans for the support

given to government and South Africa as it hosted this very important and successful summit. The second matter is to welcome the report on the Lady R matter and to congratulate again South Africa forward having established, through President Ramaphosa, an independent panel to fully canvas this matter. What is of great interest is that we do not see this proof that everybody had, which the panel asked to be brought to it so that they could then have a fully-fledged report setting out all evidence provided. The panel had a wide- ranging set of interviews, did very elaborate work, and we believe has responded added to these allegations that were made against South Africa in the media.

Chairperson, it is astounding finally, to hear any Member of Parliament claim that in the education or health domain, South Africa remains as it was under apartheid. This is a most disingenuous opportunity to try to feature in the upcoming elections and really does not reflect the reality of the achievements that have been made by our democratic government since democracy was attained in 1994. Thank you, Chairperson.

ALLOWANCE FOR NURSES IN THE EASTERN CAPE

(Minister’s Response)

The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Chair, I want to respond to the statement made by hon Kwankwa on the issue of the allowances for nurses in the Eastern Cape. Let me state upfront, Chair and hon members, that as the government and as a health department, we value very highly the role played by our nurses in the provision of health services. Nurses are the bedrock of our services from the primary level up to the most specialized services. The difficulty here is that there is a particular dispensation across various professions. There are various allowances which are paid based on policy, but also those policies are adopted also in the Public Service Bargaining Council, PSBBC. In this case, the policy which is approved is for the category called professional nurses, in an ordinary language, those who we call the nursing sisters. Those are the ones in the areas which qualify as rural, who are qualified to receive the rural allowance. However, there is pressure from other categories, including your nursing assistants and enrolled nurses who are generally called staff nurses. This is the case in the Eastern Cape. So, some staff members went to court and there have been some rulings on these matters or to the CCMA, and these matters are being adjudicated at that level. But it is not because of noncaring and nonappreciation. It is in terms of policy and affordability, because if all categories were to be categorized for the rural allowance,

which is meant to attract scarce skills in the areas which are highly disadvantaged. So, I just want to assure members that it is not because of lack of noncaring, it’s a question of affordability and therefore prioritizing skills in particular areas. Thank you very much, hon Chair.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you, hon Minister, the last ministerial response will come from the hon Deputy Minister of International Relations and Co-operation, hon Botes.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-

OPERATION (Mr A Botes): House Chairperson, hon Frolick, my Minister, Dr Pandor, has substantively reflected on my intended intervention. Thank you very much.

CONSIDERATION OF DRAFT NOTICE AND SCHEDULE DETERMINING THE RATE, WITH EFFECT FROM 1 APRIL 2022, AT WHICH SALARIES, ALLOWANCES AND BENEFITS ARE PAYABLE TO MAGISTRATES ANNUALLY, FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT IN TERMS OF SECTION 12(1) OF MAGISTRATES ACT, ACT 90 OF 1993

Mr G MAGWANISHE: House Chairperson, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members, in terms of the Magistrates Act of

1993, magistrates are entitled to annual salaries and such allowances and benefits as determined by the President from time to time, after considering the recommendations of the Independent Commission for the Remuneration of Public Office Bearers. The committee notes that the Independent Commission recommended a 3,8% increase for all public office bearers with effect from 1 April 2022, including magistrates. The committee notes further that having considered the serious economic situation of the country and the Independent Commission’s recommendations; the President has proposed to determine a 3% salary increase increments for the magistrates with effect from 1 April 2022. Having considered the draft notice and schedule determining the rate with effect from 1 April 2022, at which salaries, allowances and benefits are payable to magistrates annually, the committee recommends that the House, in terms of section 12(3) of the Magistrates Act of 1993, approves the draft notice and schedule. I so move.

There was no debate.

Declarations of Vote:

Mr W HORN: House Chair, the independence of the judiciary is foundational to constitutionalism and the rule of law.

Addressing the Cape Law Society in 2012, the then Chief Justice Arthur Chaskalson remarked as follows, and I quote:

Judicial independence is a requirement demanded by the Constitution, not in the personal interests of the judiciary, but in the public interest, for without that protection, judges may not be or seem to be by the public able to perform their duties without fear or favour.

Chair, while still leading the Constitutional Court in the case of Van Rooyen in 2002, that case which ultimately resulted in the remuneration of magistrates also forming part of the work of the Independent Commission for the Remuneration of Public Office Bearers, Chaskalson also held as follows:

Adequate remuneration is an aspect of judicial independence. If judicial officers lack that security, their ability to act independently is put under strain. Moreover, if salaries are inadequate, it would be difficult to attract to the judiciary persons with the skills and integrity necessary for the discharge of the important functions exercised by the judiciary in a democracy.

Now, Chair, if one adds to this, the generally accepted principle that security of tenure, amongst other things, means that the salary of judicial officers may not be reduced. The increase afforded to the magistracy over the last years must raise serious concerns. Four percent for junior magistrates and 2%t for senior magistrates in 2019, 0% in 2020, 3% in 2021, and again 3% now for 2022, all whilst the cost of living has escalated in a manner disproportionately higher than these increases, with independent analysis showing that magistrates now, in real terms, earn about 25% less than 10 years ago. Of course, the independence of the judiciary can never mean a total insulation from the realities faced by the state, with it being clear that this country is approaching a fiscal cliff, it must follow that this will impact on everyone who is depends and on the public purse for their remuneration, regardless of whether they have played a role in causing this fiscal crisis or not. Whilst we support this draft notice in this report, we do so with great sympathy to the magistracy being the arm of state which does not carry nor manage, or in our case, mismanage the public purse. Thank you.

Dr S S THEMBEKWAYO: Chairperson, the employment and regulations of the working of the magistrate are unique and require immediate attention. While magistrates are members of

the judiciary, they are employees of the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development. And do not have the security of tenure that judges enjoy. Further, magistrates are paid far lower than judges but have the most ridiculous workload as they have to adjudicate on hundreds of cases every single term. Magistrates are overworked and underpaid, and most are in the cold face of the most heinous crimes suffered by society.

Apart from allocating a 3% salary increase to the magistrate, the most urgent task is to review the employment conditions of magistrates to ensure that the discrepancies that exist between the employment conditions of magistrates and judges are eliminated and that magistrates are provided with tenure two. There is a further need to at least limit the number of cases a magistrate can hear to reduce the work-related stress that most suffer from. It takes an incredibly resilient moral compass to be able to do the work that magistrates do and they continually dispense justice in a free and fair manner. It is the knowledge of these difficult conditions that magistrates work and that some criminal elements are brazen enough to try to bribe some magistrates.

We therefore are in support of the 3% salary increase for the magistrate, but we further call for an immediate review of their employment and working conditions. We support the report. Thank you, Chair.

Mr S N SWART: Thank you, House Chair. House, I will deal with both reports dealing with magistrates and the judges. Section

165 states that courts are independent and subject only to the Constitution and the law, which they must apply impartially without fear, favour and prejudice. And so it is the courts and to the courts that citizens and organizations turn to resolve ... [Interjections.] ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Hon Swart, my

apologies for that interference. May I ask IT to disconnect and mute that microphone, please? Please continue.

Mr S N SWART: ... Thank you. It is to the courts that citizens and organizations turn to resolve disputes where complaints are laid, where criminal cases are heard, and also to resolve abuses of government powers, et cetera. So it is crucial then that judges and magistrates are remunerated accordingly, given that many judges, many magistrates, give up very well-paying

remunerated legal practices, either as advocates or attorneys, to serve on the bench.

The Chief Justice submitted to the independent commission through the Heads of Court Commission on Judges Remuneration. The committee reportedly requested the commission to consider the inflation erosion of judges’ salaries. The same applies to the magistrates, who are also suffering from inflationary erosion of their salaries over the years. This matter has been raised over several years and an overview was presented to the commission. The response of the commission was to indicate that this issue will be addressed by a major review, which is a work in progress. It is unclear how long this review has been in progress and when it will be finally concluded. In the meanwhile, the commission recommended a 3,8% increase in both magistrates’ and judges' remuneration.

The Minister of Finance indicated that the fiscus could only afford 1,5%, due to prevailing economic conditions, the Minister of Justice supported the 3,8%, and President Ramaphosa, then mindful of the country’s serious economic challenges, chose to implement a 3% increase.

So, while the increase does not take into account serious inflationary erosion of judges and magistrates’ salaries and the cost of living, as we all know, increases and the judges indicated that they have a shortfall now of -20,6%. It is an interim measure pending the finalization of the major review, which we trust will be finalized soon. In light of that, the CDP will support the report. I thank you.

Ms A RAMOLOBENG: Thank you, House Chair. Members of the executive, hon members, compatriots, comrades and friends. The African National Congress rises in support of the report of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Correctional Services on the draft notice and schedule determining the rate with effect from the 1st of April 2022. At which salaries, allowances and benefits are payable to magistrates annually for approval by Parliament in terms of section 12(1) of the Magistrate’s Act of 1993.

In the words of our former Chief Justice, Ishmael Muhammad, it is in the magistrate courts that justice is tested in its most crucial, most pervasive, most voluminous, most pressurized, and logistically most demanding dimensions in literally thousands of cases every day.

The continual struggle for the legitimacy and efficiency of the instruments of justice, a substantially lost or won in the magistrate court. Similar sentiments were also shared by our former Deputy Chief Justice Moseneke who, in his judicial memoir titled “All Rise” said “Easily 80% of the volume of civil disputes and criminal prosecutions are heard in the magistrate courts. They are the grassroots courts. They are very busy courts without which the judicial system of our country would grind to a halt.

We all owe a big debt of gratitude to those judicial officers in every district and region who work with inadequate resources and remarkably high caseloads.

House Chair, magistrates performed judicial functions, which included hearing cases and delivering judgements in both civil and criminal matters. They are a very important structure of the judicial system and are at the forefront of the South African justice delivery system. As they are usually the first port of call for people who come into contact with the criminal justice system. Or who intends to conduct civil suits.

Section 34 of the Constitution provides that “everyone has the right to have any dispute that can be resolved by the application of law decided in a fair public hearing before a court. Or where appropriate in another independent or impartial tribunal or forum. Access to justice includes the formal right to a fair hearing.

House Chair, it is said that for many South Africans, the magistracy is the only judiciary that they will ever encounter. In the case of the Association of Regional Magistrates of Southern Africa versus the President of the Republic of South Africa, the Constitutional Court acknowledged that magistrate courts are a vital part of the judicial and administration of justice.

According to the 2019 survey of South African magistrates, perception of their work environment, magistrates have increasingly been called on to act and be appointed as judges. The increasing number of former magistrates who have become judges does not appear coincidental. Magistrates now form a pool of candidates from which judges are now being appointed, which was not the case in the pre-constitutional era.

Section 41 of the Constitution enjoins all spheres of government and all organs of state to co-operate with one another and to assist and support one another.

The Independent Commission for the Remuneration of Public Office Bearers recommended a 3,8% increase for the office of all public office bearers, including magistrates, for the financial year of 2022/23. The President has proposed a 3% salary increment for all magistrates with effect from the 1st of April 2022, having considered the independent commission’s recommendation and the serious economic situation of our country House Chair, the ANC supports this report. I thank you.

Question put.

Agreed to.

CONSIDERATION OF DRAFT NOTICE AND SCHEDULE DETERMINING THE RATE, WITH EFFECT FROM 1 APRIL 2022, AT WHICH SALARIES, ALLOWANCES AND BENEFITS ARE PAYABLE TO CONSTITUTIONAL COURT JUDGES AND OTHER JUDGES ANNUALLY, FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT IN TERMS OF SECTION 2(4) OF JUDGES’ REMUNERATION AND CONDITIONS OF EMPLOYMENT ACT, 2001 (ACT NO 47 OF 2001)

Mr G MAGWANISHE: House Chairperson, in terms of the Judges’ Remuneration and Conditions of Employment Act of 2001, Constitutional Court judges and otherjudges are entitled to salaries and such allowances or benefits as determined by the President from time to time, after considering the recommendations of the Independent Commission for the Remuneration of public office bearers.

The committee notes that the Independent Commission recommended a 3,8% salary increase with effect from the 1 April 2022 for all office bearers, including Constitutional Court judges and other judges. The committee notes further that having considered the Independence Commission’s recommendation and taken into account the serious economic situation of the country, the President determined a 3% salary increment for all of his public office bearers, including Constitutional Court judges and judges of other courts with effect from 1 April 2022.

Having considered the draft notice and schedule determining the rate with effect from 1 April 2022 at which salaries, allowances and benefits are payable to Constitutional Court judges and other judges annually tabled for approval in terms of section 2(4) of the Judges’ Remuneration and Conditions of

Employment Act of 2001, the committee recommends that the House approves the draft notice and schedule. I thank you.

Declarations of Vote:

Adv G BREYTENBACH: House Chair, we have no declaration, but we support the report.

Mr M MANYI: Hon House Chairperson, the independence of the judiciary is a cornerstone of a constitutional democracy across the world. Key to this independence is the ability of judges to maintain a relatively secured livelihood for themselves and their families. This is to insulate them from being easily entices by money, including dollar stashes under mattresses which might risk capture ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, my apologies. Hon Dlakude, will you mute your microphone on the podium, please. Order, hon members. May I ask the ICT to disconnect that microphone. Thank you. Please continue.

Mr M MANYI: Having said that, any increase to public office bearers must be cognisant of the tough economic conditions that the rest of the country is facing. We are sitting with an

unemployment rate of almost 40% and we are here talking about doing another so called fat cat situation.

The right-wing posture by the South African Reserve Bank, which has seen interest rates skyrocket, has made a living hell for millions of people but want to secure already well- paid judges. This happens while salaries of ordinary people who are lucky to have work remain stagnant. It is actually tone deaf that the salaries of the most highly paid in the country keep getting increased while National Treasury has prohibited any further spend on remuneration of ordinary public servants. This borders on being unethical, actually.

Until a solution is found to ensure that all who provide public services are properly remunerated, salary increases for highly paid office bearers such as judges must be halted too. We have to achieve equality for all in society. Wage increase is a critical factor in ensuring equality. It cannot be that poor people are forever sleeping with empty stomachs and scrambling for food while we are here ensuring that judges continue to inflate their already inflated salaries. The EFF rejects this with contempt. Thank you.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: House Chair?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Yes, hon Kwankwa? May I ask the member at the podium to take a seat, please?

Mr N L S KWANKWA: House Chair, my apologies, my screen was freezing. The United Democratic Movement, UDM, supports the recommended increase for judges in particular, primarily because it would be hypocritical of this House to object to this increase when it also received a similar increase; we as public representatives received a similar increase not so long ago.

What we should do is to keep in mind what the economic situation in the country is going forward and to make sure that we are the first ones to make sacrifices during difficult times and times of economic hardships in line with what the previous speaker said.

Also, there is growing concerns about some political influence in the judiciary. It is a concern that judges and those who lead that arm of government should be seized with to make sure that the independence of the judiciary is maintained and strengthened for our constitutional democracy. Thank you.

Mr X NQOLA: House Chair, allow me to extend greetings to members of the House and the members of the executive. The African National Congress, ANC, supports the report of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Correctional Services on the draft notice and schedule determining the rate with effect from 1 April 2022 at which salaries, allowances and benefits are payable to Constitutional Court judges and other judges annually for approval by Parliament in terms of section 2(4) of the Judges’ Remuneration and Conditions of Employment Act.

The doctrine of separation of powers entails that freedom of citizens of a state can be ensured only if the concentration of power, which can lead to abuse, is prevented by the division of government authority into legislative, executive and judicial authority and this exercised by different government bodies.

While the three arms of state, namely, the legislature, executive and the judiciary enjoy separation, a large degree of interdependence exists. In the first certification judgment the Constitutional Court held that there is no universal model of separation of powers, and each state follows its own model. Furthermore, no system in the separation of powers is

absolute, since there are checks and balances in a democracy that impose restraints by one branch on another.

Separation of powers and appropriate checks and balances ensure accountability, responsiveness and openness. On the one hand, the doctrine recognises the functional independence of branches of government. On the other hand, the principle of checks and balances focuses on the desirability of ensuring that the Constitutional Court as a totality prevents the branches of government from usurping power from one another.

In this sense it anticipates the necessary or unavoidable intrusion of one branch on the terrain of another. No constitutional scheme can reflect a complete separation of powers; a scheme is always one of partial separation. Section 165(3) of the Constitution states that no person or organ of state may interfere with the function of the courts. Baseless and unwarranted attacks on our judiciary undermine confidence in our courts and weaken our constitutional order. Our courts are fundamental for upholding the rule of law, protecting human rights, and ensuring that justice is served in a fair and impartial manner. They play a critical role in updating and enforcing the provisions of the Constitution.

We emphasise the point made by the President that all the citizens of South Africa enjoined to respect, protect and promote our Constitution and the rule of law by respecting and protecting the judicial authority of our courts. This is important to ensure that our constitutional democracy continues to thrive.

We acknowledge the report of the Independent Commission for the remuneration of public office bearers which recommended a 3,8% increase for all public office bearers, including judges, for the financial year 2022-23. We acknowledge the President’s proposal of 3% salary increment given the economic constraint for Constitutional judges and other judges with effect from 1 April 2022. Having considered everything, the ANC then supports the report.

Question put.

Draft notice and Schedule determining the rate, with effect from 1 April 2022, at which salaries, allowances and benefits are payable to Constitutional Court judges and other judges annually, for approval by Parliament in terms of section 2(4) of Judges’ Remuneration and Conditions of Employment Act, 2001 (Act No 47 of 2001) approved.

DRAFT NOTICE AND SCHEDULE DETERMINING THE RATE, WITH EFFECT FROM 1 APRIL 2022, AT WHICH SALARIES AND ALLOWANCES ARE PAYABLE TO COMMISSIONERS OF SOUTH AFRICAN HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION ANNUALLY, FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT IN TERMS OF SECTION 9(1) OF SOUTH AFRICAN HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION ACT OF 2013

Mr G MAGWANISHE: House Chairperson, the SA Human Rights Commission Act of 2013, as amended, provides that the Commissioners of the SA Human Rights Commission, SAHRC, are entitled to such salaries, allowances and benefits as determined by the President from time to time by notice in the Government Gazette after considering the recommendations of the Independent Commission for the Remuneration of Public Office Bearers.

Section 9(5) of the SA Human Rights Commission Act requires that the President submit the draft notice containing the proposed determination to the National Assembly for approval, whether in whole or in part or disapproval before publication in the Gazette.

The independent commission recommended a 3,8% salary increment for all public office bearers for 2022-23 including office bearers for the independent constitutional institutions.

The President has informed the House that having considered the independent commission’s recommendations and the serious economic situation of the country, he intends to determine a 3% salary increment for all members of the independent constitutional institutions, with effect from the 1st of April 2022, subject to the National Assembly approval.

The committee recommends that the National Assembly resolves to approve the draft notice and schedule determining the rate with effect from the 1st of April 2022, at which salaries and allowances are payable to commissioners of the SA Human Rights Commission annually for approval by Parliament in terms of section 9(1) of the SA Human Rights Commission Act of 2013.

Thank you very much.

Declarations of Vote:

Mr W HORN: House Chair, the Human Rights Commission, as one of the institutions established in terms of Chapter 9 of the Constitution, has at its core the purpose of strengthening and supporting our constitutional democracy.

Other organs of state, through legislative and other measures, must assist and protect these institutions to ensure its independence, impartiality, dignity and effectiveness.

On the score of effectiveness, Chair, we are of the view that it is now or never for this Parliament to be reminded of the report of the Ad hoc Committee into the Chapter 9 Institutions already issued in 2007, the so-called The Asmal Report, which recommended as follows:

The committee, therefore, proposes the establishment of an umbrella human rights body to be called the SA Commission on Human Rights and Equality, into which the National Youth Commission, the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities, together with the Pan SA Language Board, PanSALB, and the Commission for Gender Equality, should be incorporated with the Human Rights Commission.

Chair, we live in tough times, economically, in this country. If we have a look at the rate at which not only commissioners of all of these bodies is to be remunerated, but also the fact that all of them have duplicate organograms in terms of their operational components.

The time has really arrived for us as a legislature to seriously consider the Asmal report and its proposals around rationalization.

In the meantime, in the spirit of our constitutional obligation to support Chapter 9 bodies, we will vote in favour of this report. Thank you.

Ms L H ARRIES: Chairperson, the SA Human Rights Commission has been a major disappointment in the evolution of our democracy.

The remuneration of the public office barriers must be directly proportional to the value they bring to the nation and it cannot be said that the commission is bringing any value to the nation.

This entity was established so that it could play a significant role in guarding our hard fought for human rights, that creates deprivation of human rights ever suffered in the history of humanity has to be the dispossession of land by a settler minority from the native majority.

Without the recognition of this as the need to bring about redistributive justice, there is no way to secure and guard universal human rights in this country.

The tendency by the Human Rights Commission to create a false equivalence between the rights of the dispossessor and the rights of the dispossessed point to a glaring misleading of the constitutional role.

Late last year they paraded their ignorance publicly when they indicated that they would investigate the President of the EFF for simply saying that EFF members must not sit by idly when attacked by racists.

These are people who have no competence to perform the critically important task they are obligated to pay. They do not deserve any salary increases. The money intended to increase their salaries must be channelled towards their retraining so that they better appreciate the role they ought to play and therefore, we reject this report. Thank you.

Ms A RAMOLOBENG: House Chair, members of the executive, compatriots, comrades and friends, the ANC rises in support of the report of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and

Correctional Services on the Draft Notice and Schedule determining the rate with effect from the 1st of April 2022 at which salaries and allowances are payable to the Commissioners of the SA Human Rights Commission annually for approval by Parliament in terms of section 9(1) of the SA Human Rights Commission Act of 2013.

House Chair, in a document titled Building a United Nation, ANC policy proposal for the final Constitution in 1993, the ANC proposes that the Constitution shall, as far as possible, empower the poor and the vulnerable to enforce their rights and shall, inter alia, create a Human Rights Commission and a Public Protector to perform this function.

The Constitution defines South Africa as a constitutional democracy and spells out how the state institutions should function, expressly to give effect to this constitutional democracy. These institutions include Chapter 9 institutions and in particular, the SA Human Rights Commission.

Our Constitution commits to, among others, establishing a society based on democratic values, social justice and fundamental human rights.

Our internationally acclaimed Constitution contains second generation rights, which are also known as socioeconomic rights, for these rights to be of any value to the people they seek to protect, they must be implemented.

House Chair, the SA Human Rights Commission has a general mandate to monitor and access the realization of all human rights as well as special mandate in relation to socioeconomic rights. This additional role of the South African human rights of great importance given South African history of racial discrimination, which has resulted in many South Africans suffering from the socioeconomic disadvantaged.

House Chair, the South African human rights is a democratic institution responsible for the promotion of accountability, transparency and good governance in the public sector through various forms such as the investigation, reporting and recommendations.

The existence of an institution like the SA Human Rights Commission is fundamental for a relatively young democracy like ours. Its existence is evidence of what our struggle for liberation was about: freedom, justice and the enjoyment of equal human rights.

Our Bill of Rights has horizontal effect and binds not only the state, but also natural or juristic persons. Accordingly, over the past 28 years we have seen the SA Human Rights Commission receiving complaints of human rights violations, investigating and reporting on matters between individuals, between individuals and corporate entities, as well as between the state and its citizens.

The South African human rights has been instrumental in protecting and promoting the three generations of rights for all.

Notwithstanding the challenges the institution faces, the South African human rights continues to provide justice to the poor and marginalized communities. It effectively contributes to making South Africa a better place for all.

House Chair, as has been stated, the independent commission recommended a 3,8% salary increment for all categories of public office bearers for the financial year of 2022-23 including office bearers of independent constitutional institutions.

The President informed the House that he has considered the independent commission’s recommendations and the serious economic challenges facing the country and intends to determine a 3% salary increment for all members of the independent constitutional institutions with effect from the 1st of April 2022, subject to the National Assembly’s approval.

House Chair, the ANC supports the report. I thank you.

Question agreed to.

DRAFT NOTICE AND SCHEDULE DETERMINING THE RATE WITH EFFECT FROM 1 APRIL 2022 AT WHICH SALARIES AND ALLOWANCES ARE PAYABLE TO PUBLIC PROTECTOR AND DEPUTY PUBLIC PROTECTOR ANNUALLY FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT IN TERMS OF SECTION 2(2)(A) AND 2A(5)(A) OF PUBLIC PROTECTOR ACT 23 OF 1994

(Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee on Justice and Correctional Services)

Mr G MAGWANISHE: House Chairperson, the matter was referred to the committee on 18 August 2023 for consideration and report. The Public Protector Act of 1994 as amended, provides that the

Public Protector and Deputy Public Protector are entitled to such salaries, allowances and benefits as determined by the President from time to time by notice in the Government Gazette after considering the recommendations of the Independent Commission for the Remuneration of Public Office Bearers. The Act also requires the President to submit the draft notice containing the proposed determination to the National Assembly for approval, whether in whole or in part or disapproval before publication in the Gazette.

The committee notes that the independent commission recommended a 3,8% salary increment for all categories of public office bearers for 2022-23. The committee further notes that the President has informed the House that, having considered the independent commission's recommendations and the serious economic situation of the country, he intends to determine a 3% salary increment for all members of independent constitutional institutions with effect from 1 April 2022, subject to the National Assembly's approval.

The committee recommends that the House resolves to approve the draft notice and schedule determining the rate with effect from 1 April, at which salaries and allowances are payable to the Public Protector and the Deputy Public Protector annually.

There was no debate.

Declarations of vote:

Adv G BREYTENBACH: Hon House Chair, we have no declaration. We support the report.

Ms N MHLONGO: Chairperson, the greatest danger to the state and to the credibility of decisions taken by important institutions of state such as the Public Protector lies in the susceptibility of these institutions to be captured by sectional interests. It is for this reason that those occupying these positions must be properly remunerated, but it helps no one when in order to ascend to these positions, people go out of their way to pander to the wishes of the powerful and those who have the power to appoint them.

The Public Protector as an institution is a crucial mechanism for affirming people's rights and protecting ordinary people from abuses by the executive. The institution must always be on the side of the public. As the name clearly states, it is the Public Protector and not the President's protector.

The dramatic turn that the institution has taken ever since the ascendance of the Deputy Public Protector, now the acting

Public Protector, has been a source of grave worry to us. There is nothing that points to her ability, skills and competence that warrants a salary increase for her and her office. We know that with the endorsement of the ANC caucus, the President is going to appoint her to become the Public Protector of this country. She must know that we reject her appointment to become the Public Protector and we are not going to legitimise her stay in that office by approving a salary increase for her. [Interjections.] Chairperson, protect me from the howlers. Protect me from the howlers.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members. Order.

Ms N MHLONGO: Yes, Chair, please protect me from the howlers.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Yes, I’m protecting you from all the howlers in the House, even on your side as well.

Ms N MHLONGO: The howlers are this side. The howlers are this side.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members. Calm down. Hon members, the hon member has a right to be heard. Please continue.

Ms N MHLONGO: Now, she must know that we reject her appointment and we reject this report. We refuse ... that she gets a salary increase to continue protecting the Phala Phala farm saga that happened. If she wants a salary increase, she must go to the Phala Phala farm and take the dollars that were stuffed ... [Inaudible.] ... Ramaphosa. That’s where she must get a salary increase, not from us.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members. Hon member, you wanted to be recognised. Order! Hon member, why did you rise? Why did you rise? Order, hon members! Order, hon members! Hon member, why did you ask to be recognised?

Mr M A TSEKI: Chair, I wanted to ask a ... [Inaudible.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Please take your seat. Please take your seat. Order, hon members. The IFP? Order! The FF Plus?

Mr F J MULDER: We have no declaration, Chair. We support the amendment.

SWART: We support the report. Thank you.

S KWANKWA: We support the report, Chair. Thank you.

HERRON: We support the report, Chairperson.

JAFTA: We support the report, Chairperson.

E HENDRICKS: We support the report, Chairperson.

NEWHOUDT-DRUCHEN: Hon Chairperson, members of the

executive, hon members, fellow South Africans, the ANC rises in support of the report of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Correctional Services on the draft notice and schedule determining the rate with effect from 1 April 2022 at which salaries and allowances are payable to the Public Protector and Deputy Public Protector annually for approval by Parliament in terms of section 2(2)(a) and 2A(5)(a) of the Public Protector Act 23 of 1994. To echo the words of the Constitutional Court, our former Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng said:

The tentacles of poverty run far, wide and deep in our nation. Litigation is prohibitively expensive and therefore not an easy exercisable constitutional option for an average citizen. For this reason, the fathers and mothers of our Constitution conceived the way to give even to the poor and marginalised a voice, and teeth that would bite corruption and abuse excruciatingly. And that is the Public Protector.

The court went on to describe the Public Protector as one of the most invaluable constitutional gifts to our nation in the fight against corruption, unlawful enrichment, prejudice and impropriety in state affairs and for the betterment of good governance.

Accountability is the cornerstone upon which the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa is built. It is the pillar that drives the whole new constitutional dispensation. The Public Protector is an institution which not only supports our constitutional democracy but also ensures accountability. Some of the key functions of the Public Protector are to promote good governance and access to justice for the poorest of the poor. The office acts as a defender of people's rights against

the abuses of public office, corruption, mismanagement and negligence.

It was recently reported that despite the challenges that the Public Protector SA has faced, the institution attained a remarkable 86% overall achievement, maintaining the previous year’s achievement. The investigations by the institution include matters that affect the livelihood and standard of living of ordinary members of the public, including electricity disconnections, a lack of delivery of civic services by the Department of Home Affairs and SA Security Agency, Sassa, social grants, to name but a few. It has been reported that these matters were resolved through negotiations with state organs and rapid intervention.

Section 41 of the Constitution requires all spheres of government and all organs of state to, among other things secure the wellbeing of the people of the Republic; to provide effective, transparent, accountable and coherent government; to respect the constitutional status, institutions, powers and functions of government in the other spheres; and not to exercise their powers and functions in a manner that encroaches upon the institutional integrity of government in another sphere.

Significantly, section 41 of the Constitution dictates that all spheres of government and all organs of state must co- operate with one another and must assist and support one another. In line with the dictates of the Constitution, the Public Protector SA assisted the National Assembly in fulfilling its duty in the proceedings of the section

194 inquiry. Apart from the financial support given to the Public Protector, the leadership of the institution rendered its full co-operation for the purposes of assisting the section 194 inquiry by ensuring that all relevant evidence material to the motion was put before the committee.

The independent commission recommended a 3,8% salary increment for all categories of public office bearers for the financial year 2022-23, including office bearers of independent constitutional institutions. The President informed the House that he has considered the independent commission's recommendations and the serious economic challenges facing the country, and intends to determine a 3% salary increment for all members of independent constitutional institutions with effect from 1 April 2022, subject to the National Assembly's approval. The ANC supports the report.

Draft notice and Schedule determining the rate, with effect from 1 April 2022, at which salaries and allowances are payable to Public Protector and Deputy Public Protector annually, for approval by Parliament in terms of section 2(2)(a) and 2A(5)(a) of Public Protector Act 23 of 1994, approved (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Agreed to.

DECISION OF QUESTION ON REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT — A PETITION FROM RESIDENTS OF UKHAHLAMBA LOCAL MUNICIPALITY, KWAZULU-NATAL PROVINCE, CALLING ON THE ASSEMBLY TO INVESTIGATE THE STATE OF ROADS IN THEIR COMMUNITIES (SUBMITTED BY MR R A LEES, MP)

There was no debate.