Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised hansard

House: National Council of Provinces

Date of Meeting: 20 Jun 2023


No summary available.


Watch: Plenary


The Council met at 14:07.



The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.


The Deputy Chairperson announced that the hybrid sitting constituted a sitting of the National Council of Provinces.


The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms S E Lucas): Hon delegates, before I proceed, I would like to take the opportunity to welcome to this House the Minister of Home Affairs, Minister and Deputy Minister of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development, permanent delegates, Members of Executive Councils, MECs, all special delegates and SA Local Government Association, SALGA, representatives.

Hon delegates, we will now allow 20 minutes in total and no one is going to beat me up for that, for notices of motion and motions without notice.


We will now proceed to notices to notices of motion. I would like to remind delegates that notices of motion are aimed at proposing a matter for discussion in the next sitting and should, therefore, be brief and concise.

You can now raise your hands one and a half minutes.





Mr K MOTSAMAI: Hon Deputy Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:



That the House debates the challenges of state healthcare facilities which do not operate 24 hours day as it is a case with 1 Military Hospital and military bases dispensary, which stops operating at 14:30 on weekends and only reopen at 08:30 the following day, while our people feel sick during the hours of the day every day.

I so move.


Ms S SHAIKH: Hon Deputy Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates the extortion of communities and businesses through the payment of a protection fee and further notes that this extortion rackets, which used to target foreign-owned shops, is targeting individuals and businesses such as those construction sites and rental properties, forcing them to pay protection money or suffer the consequences of crime.


I so move.




Mr M A P DE BRUYN: Hon Deputy Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the FF-Plus:



That the House-




(1) debates the ongoing sabotage of municipal fleet and operations and that this House;

(2) notes that the Mangaung Metro is experiencing constant sabotage vehicles in his solid waste department as a means to generate overtime; and


(3) also notes that the Mangaung Metro is currently under section 139(7) intervention and that the relevant national departments should ensure independent investigations regarding this matter.



I so move.



Mr E Z NJADU: Hon Deputy Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House-




(1) debates security in the health facilities across the country, including public hospitals and clinics where patients and healthcare workers continue to fall victim to the sense act of criminality, including robbery and theft of their properties; and

(2) further notes that on Saturday, 16 June, a group of cold blooded criminals robbed patients and staff at Carolina Hospital in Mpumalanga.


I so move.




Ms S B LEHIHI: Hon Deputy Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:


That the House debates the alarming state of the dilapidated state infrastructure across the country, which stands as an example of the incompetence of the ANC government.



I so move.




(Draft Resolution)



THE CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP (Mr S J Mohai): Deputy Chairperson, as a nation and the National Council of Provinces, we celebrate the 81st birthday of President Thabo Mbeki that was on 18 June 2023. President Mbeki is a living embodiment of the principles that are rooted in the values of our liberation struggle and organisation of the ANC and its fraternal structures. Central to this principle, is the people as a motive force of transformation and that all our efforts as representatives of society should be in the interests of the people. Through his birthday celebration, a reflection is made which gives hope to the nation and most particularly the youth who are invited in numbers as leaders of today and tomorrow.

President Mbeki has made a tremendous contribution in building a better continent and world. We acknowledge how continued efforts to ensure peace and development of the African continent and its people. We should continue to build a better world through strengthening south to south relations and transforming multilateral institutions. We wish former President Thabo Mbeki good health, and we shall continue to support his efforts and embrace the noble contribution as sign of the African soil. I so move.



Agreed to.



The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms S E Lucas): Just before I continue, can these members on their side please raise your

hands so that I can make a list. So, all of you are having motions.




Sjoe, julle is besig. As die tyd klaar is dan sal julle sien is ons klaar.




Members, I just want to say that I’m going to try to accommodate all of you but ...




... wanneer die tyd klaar is dan is die tyd klaar.







(Draft Resolution)




Ms N NDONGENI: Hon Deputy Chair, I hereby move without notice:



That the Council –




(1) notes that the successful African peace initiative that was undertaken by various African leaders as a

major step to help broker a peace deal to end the war between Russia and Ukraine;



(2) further notes that the African delegation of president and officials from the six countries, which was led by President Cyril Ramaphosa, President Macky Sall of Senegal, Hakainde Hichilema of Zambia, and President Azali Assoumani of the Comoros who is also the current chairman of the African Union, AU, met with the President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskyy in Kiev, Ukraine, and the President of Russia, Vladimir Putin in St Petersburg, Russia, to make the continent’s attempt to help broker a peace deal to end the war between Russia and Ukraine; and



(3) welcomes the expressed support to the initiative of the African leaders who broke a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia.



I so move.




Agreed to.





(Draft Resolution)



Mr G MICHALAKIS: Deputy Chair, on behalf of the DA, I hereby move without notice:


That this Council –




(1) notes that sewage is currently flowing into the natural water streams in Hennenman in Matjhabeng Municipality;



(2) further notes that such sewage leaks not only contaminate the nearby Erasmus Spruit, but also the Sand River from which water is provided for Virginia and surrounds;



(3) also notes that the contaminated water and sewage spills also have a profoundly negative effect to such an extent that the Hennenman Farmers Union wrote to the Minister of Water and Sanitation and the Minister of Environmental Affairs about the

matter, and they have received no response to date from the municipalities;



(4) notes that agriculture is a key sector in the area and that clean water, and a clean environment are basic human rights; and



(5) calls upon the Minister of Water and Sanitation and the Minister of Environmental Affairs to both intervene urgently in this situation to address the sewage leaks and to protect the community from further contamination of these water resources.


I so move.




Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)




Mr M S MOLETSANE: Deputy Chairperson, on behalf of the EFF, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council –




(1) notes that the Free State province underspent 2% of their allocated budget in the previous financial year. This is the face of poor service delivery and infrastructure in the province in the health sector;



(2) further notes that the challenges faced in the Free State province can be directly attributed to lack of capacity and mismanagement of funds by the ruling party in that province;



(3) acknowledges that in the health sector, only two out of 32 hospitals in the Free State province are compliant with the basic health standards of the Office of the Health Standards Compliance, OHSC;



(4) further acknowledges that Botshabelo District Hospital and the Phekolong District Hospital in Bohlokong, Bethlehem, are the only two hospitals that received compliance certificates from the OHSC;



(5) recognises that service delivery is hampered by the failure of effectively spending funds allocated and

that much still needs to be done in health departments to improve both its performance and delivery of quality services; and


(6) calls for all government departments to effectively manage and spend budget.


I so move.







(Draft Resolution)



Ms L C BEBEE: Deputy Chairperson, on behalf of the ANC, I hereby move without notice:



That the Council –




(1) notes with sadness the untimely passing of uMama Ntombizodwa Doris Skhosana who was laid to rest on

20 May 2023. Comrade Skhosana was a dedicated freedom fighter who worked for the Griffiths Mxenge law firm and worked for the ANC before joining the ANC military wing in exile;

(2) also notes that when she came back from exile, she became involved in the community structures that were created to empower the community, hence she became the founding director of the community internship programme that was based in the University of KwaZulu-Natal;



(3) further notes that she represented the ANC as a Member of Parliament in the National Assembly and later in the legislature where she served in the premier’s portfolio committees; and



(4) sends our heartfelt condolences to the family, friends and her organization, the ANC.



I so move.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)

Ms C VISSER: Hon Deputy Chair, on behalf of the DA, I hereby move without notice:



That this Council –




(1) notes that state’s failure of the current Ditsobotla Municipality through its inability of the unit of government to adequately implement statutory obligations, the appropriate policies and strategies needed to avert a catastrophe that is brewing in all communities with failure to deliver its services;



(2) also notes that the Ditsobotla Municipality do not have the ability to self-correct and restore governance’s capacity to the benefit of the community, the economic, and agricultural hub;



(3) further notes with concern that an outstanding creditors balance of R4,4 billion followed by an auction of the creditors to impound all vehicles and equipment due to outstanding creditors debt not covered by the auction creditors will now impound municipal land to settle the outstanding ending debt; and

(4) understands that the Financial Recovery Plan from the National Treasury is still not adopted by the North West provincial government. Section 139(1)(c) failed its functions dismally. Ditsobotla communities are once again subjected to severe political instability.



I so move.



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)




Mr Z MKIVA: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby by move on behalf of the ANC without notice:


That the Council –




(1) notes with utter dismay the ruthless and senseless slaughter of 37 people, abduction of six others, and injuring of eight, including dozens of pupils in an

attack on a secondary school near Uganda’s borders by the Democratic Republic of Congo;



(2) further notes that these heinous acts of violence against innocent children follows another massacre of up to 80 students at another school in the same region by allied democratic forces, which is an extremist group that operates from the parts of Ituri and North Kivu in the Democratic Republic of Congo, terrorising locals and sometimes crossing borders into Uganda; and



(3) takes this opportunity to join the global community in condemnation of this heinous and unconscionable acts of violence against innocent children.


I so move.




Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)

Ms D C CHRISTIANS: Deputy Chairperson, on behalf of the DA, I hereby move without notice:



That this Council –




(1) notes the alarming state of water and sanitation systems in the Northern Cape as revealed by the recent 2023 Blue and Green Drop Watch interim reports. The reports highlight sewage overflow and the provision of substandard water quality in the Northern Cape municipalities. Shockingly, the Northern ranks highest in the country with 59 out of

70 wastewater treatment works classified as critical, indicating a significant deterioration since 2023 – should I start over, Chairperson? In terms of water supply systems, the Northern Cape ranks third worst in the country. Sixteen water treatment systems supply bad quality water with no information available for three systems. Chemical treatment rated as bad was found in 19 water treatment systems, again with no information available for three systems. These failing systems fail to meet e.coli standards, posing severe health risks to the majority of the province’s population.

The Northern Cape faces an imminent water and sanitation crisis that requires urgent attention. The devastating effects of cholera outbreaks in other provinces demonstrate the urgency of preventing a similar public health risk crisis in the Northern Cape. Therefore, I propose the following action steps: calls for an urgent briefing attended by Cogta, the Department of Water and Sanitation, and relevant stakeholders to revive and implement effective strategies to ... [Time expired.] ... I so move.





(Draft Resolution)




Mr I NTSUBE: I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:




That the Council–




(1) notes with concern, the opportunistic attempt by some of the South African domestic and global political cycle to turn the recent events in diplomatic and trade

relations between South Africa and the USA into the political credit standing;



(2) notes with concern the media reports of the undiplomatic posture by the Premier of the Western Cape, to negotiate with the US government the future of the Africa Growth Act in relation to South Africa;



(3) reckons that, in our view, the posture by some sections of the US administration to discuss issues of such significant bilateral, diplomatic and trade relations outside the established channel, does not only undermine the sovereignty of our country, but the historic relationship between South Africa and the USA;



(4) notes the established international protocols and channels of engaging on such issues is at the heart of the rule of law, while anything to the contrary is the undermining of the very same rule of law;


(5) reaffirms President Ramaphosa’s view that our stance as a country is to encourage peaceful negotiations to end persisting Ukraine-Russian war will not be deterred by these efforts; and

(6) further calls on all the parties respect established diplomatic and trade channels of engaging on issues and other related issues.


I so move.









hon Ntsube. I don’t know why you will be starting before I have asked. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait! Hon members, wait. Please do allow me ...



Hon members, remember, I have cautioned hon Christians that the time has expired, but then she decided to move and submit. Can we now come back to her motion? Are there any objections to that motion?



The motion was objected to.




So, if there is an objection, the motion may not be proceeded with and will become a Notice of Motion.

Now, we come to hon Ntsube’s motion. Are there any objections to the motion?



The motion was objected to.




If there is an objection, the motion may not be proceeded with it. It will become a Notice of a Motion. Thank you, hon members, for the patience.






(Draft Resolution)




Mr F J BADENHORST: I move without notice on behalf of the DA:




That the Council–




(1) notes with great appreciation the excellent work done by the Overstrand Municipality during the course of the storms which ravaged the region over the past week;



(2) notes that in particular the Mayor and Deputy Mayor of the Municipality, Cllrs Annelie Rabie and Lindile

Ntsabo, led the disaster management initiatives to ensure that residents remained safe and informed of developments;


(3) further notes that the Western Cape Disaster Management Centre, under the leadership of MEC for COGTA, Dr Anton Bredell played a significant role in these efforts providing resources and effective communication to citizens affected; and



(4) lastly notes with great pride the difference that a well - run DA municipality can make in the lives of all its residents during times of great danger and peril.



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.


No objections.




Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.



(Draft Resolution)




Ms B M BARTLETT: I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:



That the Council–




(1) notes with a great sense of shock and sadness, the untimely passing away of Hon Tina Joemat-Pettersson, Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee of Police in the National Assembly;


(2) further notes with concern the untested media speculations surrounding the circumstances of her death which continues to inflict emotional harm to her family, friends and comrades;



(3) extend our support to the family in their struggle to find closure during these trying times;



(4) calls on the media to report with sensitivity and care on this matter and desist from making untested speculations that only serve to inflict more pain to the family; and

(5) extend our heartfelt condolences to the family, the ANC, friends and comrades of comrade Tina Joemat- Pettersson.


There were no objections.




Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.





(Draft Resolution)



Ms C LABSCHAGNE: I move without notice on behalf of the DA:




That the Council–




(1) recognises that the World Cetacean Alliance (WCA) announced that Plettenberg Bay has been awarded Whale Heritage Site Status;



(2) notes that Plettenberg Bay joins the Bluff and Algoa Bay as the third Whale Heritage Site in South

Africa, and one of only seven fully accredited whale heritage sites worldwide;



(3) further notes that the Whale Heritage site programme is an initiative created by the WCA and supported by the World Animal Protection, which recognises destinations around the world where coastal communities work together to protect, respect and celebrate cetaceans and their habitats;



(4) further notes that the annual Plett Ocean Festival inspires the local community and visitors alike to appreciate and preserve this precious marine system while research projects based in Plettenberg Bay carry out valuable conservation work year-round; and


(5) would like to congratulate the steering committee and community of Plettenberg Bay on their achievements and continuing efforts to protect cetaceans and the marine environment.



There were no objections.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.





(Draft Resolution)




Mr M E NCHABELENG: Hon Deputy Chairperson, I am presenting this motion without notice on behalf of hon Dangor of the ANC. Hon Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice:


That the Council–



(1) notes with concern the statement by the Advocate Busisiwe Mkhwebane reaffirming the allegations that are already in the public domain regarding the attempts by some senior ANC members, MPS, to solicit a bribe from her husband in exchange of letting the section 94 inquiry to go;



(2) discourages her, whilst we respect the rights of Advocate Mkhwebane, to make public such serious allegations, which are purported to be recorded, the

criminal nature of the allegations falls squarely within the powers of the law enforcement agencies to investigate, test and bring those implicated to book;


(3) further reminds this august House and the people of South Africa that in the very beginning, when these allegations went viral in the media, the ANC through its Secretary-General, Fikile Mbalula, has never minced its words on the seriousness of this allegation;



(4) further made it public that the law enforcement agencies should be allowed to investigate without any fear or favour, to get to the bottom of the truth about these allegations; and



(5) hon Deputy Chairperson, without getting into the merits or demerits of the media statements by Advocate Mkhwebane, it is worth to note that she has not said anything new from what was initially alleged by the ... [Inaudible.] ... with the criminal justice system. [Time expired.].



The motion was objected to.

The motion may not be proceeded with and will become a Notice of Motion.





(Draft Resolution)




Ms H S BOSHOFF: I move without notice on behalf of the DA:



That the Council–




(1) notes with concern that Estralita School, a school for learners with special needs in Mashishing has not been fully functional since May 2022 due to members of Nehawu striking due to allegations of racism at the school;


(2) further notes that due to this strike, the school principal was placed on unexplained leave on the recommendation of the Circuit Manager in Mashishing;



(3) further notes that a task team was appointed in 2022 to investigate these allegations as raised by

Nehawu, and to date no report with recommendations has been submitted to the SGB, leading to learners continually being denied proper access to education;


(4) further notes that on 29 May 2023 the school was permanently closed by members of the SGB and parents in unity with those staff members and learners who cannot work and provide learners with their constitutional right;



(5) further notes that to date no assistance has been provided to this school by the Mpumalanga Education Department nor has the MEC of Education in Mpumalanga intervened, as requested by the DA;



(6) further notes that the DA is awaiting responses from the Minister of Education on questions submitted to her regarding the way forward on this matter;



(7) also notes that all staff members, including the principal, are sitting at home with full salary, not of their own doing, but due to Nehawu prohibiting them from returning as so many want to; and

(8) finally notes that the DA, again calls on the MEC of Education in Mpumalanga to urgently intervene in this matter to ensure the appointed Task Team provides the SGB with the outcome of the report to allow learners, educators and staff to return to school to conduct their respective duties.



There were no objections.



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.





(Draft Resolution)




Ms N E NKOSI: I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:




That the Council-




(1) notes with utter dismay reports that the Barcelona Primary School in Etwatwa, in Benoni, has not been built despite the contract having been awarded in

July 2018 and the contractor paid almost R11 million by 2020;



(2) further notes that the school, which has about 1 300 learners continues to battle overcrowding and unbearable learning conditions; and



(3) calls on the Gauteng Premier and MEC for Education to intervene to ensure that the building of the school resumes without any further delays and that where there is flagrant abuse of the country’s financial laws, those who are responsible are made to face the full might of the law.



There were no objections.



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.





(Draft Resolution)

Ms B T MATHEBULA: Thank you very much, Chairperson, and my apologies for not opening my camera. I have got poor coverage in my area. I move without notice on behalf of the EFF:


That the Council–




(1) notes that schools in the rural parts of Limpopo province have, since the beginning of school year, been facing challenges implementing a school nutrition programme with no nutrition means being provided for learners;


(2) further notes that Ukuthula Primary School in Ward 24 and Mizuzwana Primary School in Ward 25 in Giyani, Mopani in Limpopo have been operating without a food nutrition programme and have had to use their own budget to buy their food, leaving hundreds of learners starving;



(3) acknowledges that the government has a duty to provide learners in poorer primary and secondary schools with nutritious meals so as to reduce hunger, nutrition deficiency and improved ability to learn;

(4) further acknowledges that some schools in Limpopo head have had a resort through closing schools early because they are unable to feed their learners;


(5) recognises that learners across rural provinces are going hungry in many districts due to the incompetence of the MEC of Education as suppliers fail to deliver food to school;



(6) calls upon the Minister of Basic Education to intervene in the school nutrition programme and put to the end delays in payment of food suppliers and provide food to those two primary schools, so as to eradicate poverty in our communities.



The motion was objected to.




There being an objection, the motion may not be proceeded with and will become a Notice of Motion.






(Draft Resolution)

Ms L N MOSS: I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:




That the Council –



(1) notes with concern that two people have lost their lives following the flooding that took place in the Western Cape;



(2) further notes that parts of the province are still under water following days of torrential downpours coupled with harsh winds;


(3) calls on the government to assist the communities that are affected, with the necessary human relief; and


(4) therefore, send our deepest condolences to the family and friends of the bereaved.



There were no objections.




Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.




(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)




Mr Z MKIVA: Chairperson of the House, the Chief Whip of the National Council of Provinces, hon members of this august House, I take this opportunity to greet you this afternoon. The Select Committee on Communications and Public Enterprises, following a protracted procedural process that started off with a briefing by the Department of Communications and Digital Technologies, as well as public participation deliberated on the Postbank Amendment Limited Bill on 7 July this year and wish to report as follows. The rationale for the amendments made to the Postbank Amendment Bill are necessary to the corporatisation of the Postbank as our Constitution is to our democratic dispensation.



In other words, the Postbank cannot exist without these amendments being effected. The process to bring into existence a state-owned bank, as members of this House would recall, started more than five years ago. The challenge has always been its corporatisation, particularly in meeting the stipulated legislative requirements of a commercial bank, as

contained in the Banking Act, Act 94 of 1990 and the Reserve Bank Act, Act 90 of 1989. In meeting the requirements, this Bill’s main objectives are to articulated for the establishment of the bank controlling company as well as meeting those requirements as a qualification criterion. In terms of section 44 of the Banks Act, the bank controlling company must be in a sound financial position for it to have control over the Postbank.



Previously, it was understood that the SA Post Office would assume the role of the bank controlling company. This notion had its own risks and benefits and unfortunately the risks overweighed the benefits. The Postbank Amendment Bill therefore makes the Postbank a stand-alone entity that will provide its banking services independent of the SA Post Office.



The Postbank, in terms of the reporting structure, will report or will be overseen by the Department of Communications and Digital Technologies through the bank controlling company.

This rationale distances the Postbank from any financial strings attached to the SA Post Office and therefore allows it to thrive without any historical financial burdens that may hinder it in being financially sustainable. The soundness of

this legislation is evident in the support this Bill has received during public comments. The Congress of South African Trade Unions, Cosatu, gave this Bill full support and thumps up, pointing out that the corporatisation of the Postbank is a necessary intervention in the banking sector, particularly in reaching out to underprivileged and underserviced areas of our country, especially where our people do not necessarily enjoy easy access to banking services. As such, services oftentimes are made available in cities and to the exclusion of people in rural areas as well as traditional communities.



This amendment also seeks to vision to the vision of the developmental state, where the state, and however minimal its role may be, must create the conditions necessary for sound economic development for the benefit of all the South African citizens. The overall objective of this government, the ANC government, according to the National Development Plan, is to eliminate poverty, unemployment, reduce inequality by 2030.



The introduction, therefore, of the state-owned bank reaffirms government’s commitment in growing an inclusive economy, building a capable state and promoting partnerships through societies. Now, we are making a point as a committee that the bank controlling company will have a board wherein we will

appoint the board members in accordance to specific expertise, including legal expertise as well as accounting expertise so that all the people who sit in the bank controlling company have got merit to administer as well as to ensure that the Postbank works efficiently and effectively. We are putting an emphasis on this matter because we need board members with calibre so that they can oversee this state-owned entity in the form of a state bank.



These individuals will occupy, amongst others, audit risk committees as well as other procurement personnel processes so as to ensure that they adhere to Public Finance Management Act guidelines so that there is no compromise in so far as those provisions are concerned. Having said that, we must forge ahead with the establishment of the bank controlling company and in meeting all the requirements necessary for the corporatisation of the Postbank as the Bill requires us to do so. All what we want is to see the Postbank in operation, extending its services to rural communities and making a difference in the lives and livelihoods of our people. We therefore put it before this House to actually take this into a decision that makes this bank and its existence under the stewardship of the bank controlling company a reality that

this country really needs at this juncture. Thank you very much, Chairperson.




very much, hon member. Hon members, before we proceed to the voting, I will allow political parties an opportunity to make their declarations of vote in terms of Rule 78 if they so wish. Three minutes per declaration of vote. Hon Visser?



Declaration of vote:


Ms C VISSER: Hon Chair, the Democratic Alliance cannot support this Bill as we find fault in the fact that there is no rationale with the Bill relating to the need for a state’s controlled bank. Concerns were raised the necessary safeguards regarding the extended risks of high-risk individuals or institutions.



There is no separation of powers between the Minister and the board. The board of the bank control company is de facto the board of the bank company and should the above occur, this bank will inevitably become another failed state-owned entity that will need a government bailout. It is for the above reasons that the DA object to this Bill. Thank you, Chair.

Ms L C BEBEE: Hon Deputy Chairperson of the House, the South African Postbank Limited Amendment Bill is important to position the entity as a state bank to serve communities in both rural and urban areas in all provinces. This Bill provides for the full licensing of Postbank as a financial institution. The state bank must ensure that it can assist the communities in terms of developing co-operatives, small, and medium enterprises.



The legislation is transformative as it seeks to empower the working class and poor and provide these communities with financial services. It is imperative that the bank can obtain the information technology, IT, system with the necessary security to protect the cash of ordinary people in the country. It must operate as a state-owned financial institution on the highest standards of governance and financial controls, financing and borrowing need to occur prudently to grow the bank to service the community in different provinces.



Financial inclusion of the majority of the people is an important area of transformation and the Postbank provides the country with this opportunity. It is an alternative poll to a largely untransformed financial sector. The Postbank should be

developmental in its orientation to ensure that there is inclusive economic growth in the country through financial support.


Postbank must be staffed with people who have the skills and capability to grow the institution and serve the financial needs of the people. The Postbank must serve as the instrument to transform the financial sector. While the bank will be separated from the post office, the infrastructure synergies can be harnessed to ensure that people have access to banking facilities in rural and urban areas.



It is imperative that the institution can function on a competitive basis to ensure that it can grow its customer base and funds which it deals with. The African National Congress supports the South African Postbank Limited Amendment Bill and wishes to see this financial institution operating in the domestic market. I thank you, Deputy Chair.



Question put.





Declaration of votes made on behalf of the Democratic Alliance and African National Congress.



Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.






(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Select Committee on Finance thereon)


Mr Z MKIVA: Hon Chairperson, maybe I must say that the air condition ...




[Inaudible.] ...



Mr Z MKIVA: Chairperson, I just wanted to say that the air condition is very cold here and the sangoma some ...




[Inaudible.] ...

Mr Z MKIVA: No one wants to get acclimatise with such exiguous cycle of air condition. Hon Chairperson and hon members, allow me to present this report on behalf of the Select Committee on Financial Matters Amendment Bill. Let me take you through just briefly with the introduction and background. The Financial Matters and Amendment Bill seeks to amend the Associated Institutions Pension Fund Act and the Temporary Employees Pension Fund and the Military Pensions Act, the Government Employees Pension Law, the Financial and Fiscal Commission Act, the Land and Agricultural Development Bank Act, the Auditing Profession Act and the Auditing Profession Amendment Act of 2021.



On 2 May 2023, the Select Committee on Finance received a briefing on the FMAB from the National Treasury. On 6 June 2023, the Committee held public hearings and received an oral submission from the Congress of SA Trade Union, Cosatu, and a written comment from Ms Nadia Taljaard-Nilsen. The National Treasury responded to the issues raised during the public participation process on the same day. The Committee held a meeting on 13 June 2023 to further process and adopt the Bill.



I want now to give you the overview of the objectives of the Financial Matters Amendment Bill. This Bill proposes to amend

the Associated Institutions Pension Fund Act 1963. The Temporal Employees Pension Fund Act of 1979, the Military Pensions Act of 1976, the Government Employees Pension Law of 1996, the Financial and Fiscal Commission Act of 1997, the Land Bank Act of 2002, the Auditing Profession Act of 2005 and the Auditing Profession Amendment Act of 2021. Now I am going to take you through the section below which summarises the proposed Amendments explained in the memorandum of objectives of this Bill and the National Treasury’s presentation made to the Committee.



The proposed amendments in this seeks to align provisions with the administration by the Minister of Finance and make consequential amendments such as reflecting the responsibility department and its head and removing the requirements to consult the Minister of Finance and updating references to other Ministers.



Amendment to the Military Pensions Act, the purpose of the amendment is to address discrimination against life partners of military pensioners retrospectively. The Financial Matters Amendment Act of 2019 recognised life partners and allows life partners to claim benefits from the date that the Amendment Act took effect. The proposed amendment provides benefits to

members’ life partners retrospectively from 27 April 1994 wherein the interim 1993 Constitution took effect. Twelve months is allowed for registration and submission of the claims.



Coming to the amendment of Government Employees Pension Law, the proposed amendment seeks to facilitate administration and make a clean break principle applicable to members of the Associated Institutions Pension Fund by amalgamation into the Government Employees Pension Fund. The GEPF Law provides for a clean break for GEPF members. The Clean break principle means that the spouse of a member may claim pension interest immediately upon divorce or dissolution of customary marriage and not wait for the member to become entitled to a portion of the pension fund.



Amendments for the Financial and Fiscal Commission Act, the purpose of the amendment is to enhance good corporate governance. Currently, the Chief Executive Officer of the Financial and Fiscal Commission, FFC, is also the secretary to the Commission. The proposal seeks to omit the role of the Chief Executive Officer of the Commission as its secretary.

National Treasury submitted that provision for the secretary to the commission should be discretionary and regulation in legislation is not necessary. Therefore, the Minister of Finance’s letter to the Chairperson of the Finance Committee dated 5 April 2023, requested that the proposed amendment in the Bill be rejected since it should be included in a Bill Act as section 76 and not a section 75 Bill.



Amendment to the Land and Agricultural Bank Act, the proposed amendment aimed to align the Act with administration by the Minister of Finance and with provisions of the Company Act of 2008. The Company Act of 2008 repealed most of the Companies Act of 1973 including provision relating to Judicial Amendment and replace it with business rescue. The business rescue in Chapter 6 of the Companies Act of 2008 did not replaced by implication the judiciary management in the Land Bank Act. The amendment therefore, proposes to replace the provision for judiciary management for the Land Act with business rescue in terms of the Companies Act of 2008.


Liquidation provisions in Chapter 6 of the Companies Act do not apply to the Land Bank. Section 44 of the Land Bank Act provides that the bank may not be warned up except by or in terms of enact by Parliament.

The National Treasury further explained that passing this Bill might assist the Land Bank with its liability solutions and enable the bank to fulfil its mandate of supporting the agricultural sector.



Amendment to the Auditing Profession Act and the Auditing Profession Amendment Act, the purpose of the amendment is to strengthen sanctions for auditors admitting guilt of serious improper conduct. It adjusts the powers of the enforcement committee where the auditor admits guilt. National Treasury explained that if the enforcement committees’ view is that the conduct does not warrant the sanction of deregistration or disqualification from registration as an auditor, it must follow the admission of guilt proses and refer the matter to a disciplinary committee for sanctioning. Subsequently, the senior councils advised were obtained on how to deal with the alleged improper conduct by auditors committed and not finalised before1 26 April 2021 when the Amendment Act took effect.



Legal advice received by the National Treasury clarified that Independent Regulatory Board for Auditors may establish an interim transitional disciplinary committee to deal with these

cases. Therefore, clause 22 is no longer required. The National Treasury requested that clause 22 be rejected.



There are just key issues, hon Chairperson, that I would like to put before the House which were raised during the public participation process. Cosatu, for instance, acknowledge the importance of the Bill in addressing the challenges that military veteran partners have experienced in accessing a pension benefits when their partners and ex-partners passed away or during separations providing for extension of existing legal requirements to the Associated Institutions Pension Fund, AIPF, and addressing the problem experienced in the auditing profession.



Cosatu, however, remains concerned about the unhealthy relationship between some auditors and the institutions they audit, noting that the King Report recommended time limits for auditing contracts and that the IRABA has instituted a rule requiring the mandatory rotation of auditing firms after 10- year tenure. Cosatu submitted that this NRAF rule needs to be entrenched in law and its time frame be reduced to five years instead of 10 years. Its concern is that in the face of massive resistant from compromise auditing firms IRBA can simple delete the rule.

Cosatu proposed an amendment for consideration by the Standing Committee on Finance to insert a new section in the Bill formalising all these amendments.


Now I want to come to the responses by the National Treasury to all the issues that were raised by Cosatu. As I conclude, hon Chairperson, because I wanted to actually take the House into full confidence in terms of all the processes that ensued in respect of all these amendments so that we are all on par and we have full understanding of what we are doing and therefore I will go straight to the Committee recommendations. The Committee recommends that; the National Treasury should table the amendment to the Auditing Profession Amendment Act by 2024. The Committee with the aims of the amendment recommend that they be submitted in an amendment Bill by the end of the third quarter next year or at the very latest in the fourth quarter. The Committee supports the proposed amendments in the Land Bank Act and recommends that National Treasury monitors that they assist the bank with its liability solutions and to enable the bank to better support the Agricultural sector.



The Select Committee on Finance therefor, has examined all these matters and it is fully in support of what needs to

ensued. And therefore, the House should adopt this particular report. Thank you very much.




still recommend that, hon members, read the report on the ATC page 54. I think there are very important recommendations or amendments on that if we have listened careful to the member.



Debate concluded.



Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.




Mr Y I CARRIM: On a point of order. Is it parliamentary for the DA to vote for a Bill in this House? Secondly, is it parliamentary for the EFF at least to abstain? And thirdly, shouldn’t Parliament provides therapy services for those of us who get traumatised by the behaviour of the EFF in particular and the DA. I am traumatised, Chairperson. [Interjections.]




we really missed you, welcome.









Ms T C MODISE: Deputy Chairperson, let me greet my colleagues in the House and the special delegates that are here in the platform and that are with us.


Hon Chairperson, the committee met with the Department of Rural Dev ... of Environment and they briefed them about the management and the development of the Marine and Coastal Environmental and of the Western Indian Ocean Nairobi Convention.



Therefore, after that, the Select Committee on Land Reform, Environment, Mineral Resources and Energy having considered the approval by Parliament for the association to the Amendment of Convention for the Protection, Management and the

Development of the Marine and Coastal Environmental of Western Indian Ocean, Nairobi Convention referred to it on 23 May 2023, recommends that the Council in terms of this section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996, to approve the said agreement.



Can I continue with the proto ... the other one? [Interjections.] There are two. There are two. [Interjections.] Yes.




continue; the voting will be separate but you can continue with the Fourth.


Ms T C MODISE: The Select Committee on Land Reform, Mineral Resources and Energy having considered the approval by Parliament for the Protocol for the Protection of the Marine and Coastal, Environmental and the Western Indian Ocean from the land based sources and activities of the Nairobi Convention referred to it on 30 May 2023, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996, approves the said protocol. Thank you.



Question put on the THIRD ORDER.

Voting on the THIRD ORDER.




Agreed to.



Question put on the FOURTH ORDER.




Voting on the FOURTH ORDER.




Agreed to.






Ms S SHAIKH: Hon Deputy Chairperson, greetings to all hon member, section 83(2)(h) of the correctional services act of 1998 mandated the Minister of Correction al Services to appoint the National Council for Correctional Services, NCCS. The main fun ction of the NCCS is to advise the Minister on developing policy wijth regard to the correctional system and the sentencing process. The Minister must prepare draft legislation and major proposed policy development regarding

the correctional system to the national council for its comments and advice.



The NCCS has historically been very instrumental in the development of processes and procedure within the correctional and penology fields nationally and outside our boarders. The NCCS also consider cases of upon the serving sentences of life imprisonment and must make recommendations to the Minister regarding the placement of such offenders on parole or day parole and cancellation of day parole or parole. Certain members of the council also seat at the Correctional Supervision and Parole Review Board to review the decisions of the Parole Board. The term of the current council, as extended, ends on 30 June 2023.



Hon Chair, it is legislated that the NCCS needs to consist of the following persons, three judges of the High Court or Supreme Court of Appeal, a magistrate or prosecutor from the National Prosecuting Authority, representatives from the departments of Correctional Services, Social Development and Police, two persons who specialised in the field of corrections and members of the community.

Section 83(2)(h) of the Correctional Services Act of 1998 stipulates that the Minster must appoint four or more persons not in the full time service of the state as representatives of the public in consultation with the relevant parliamentary committees. The Minister and the department in its briefing to the committee on 14 June 2023, informed the committee that in terms of section 83 of the Correctional Services Act of 1998 as amended, that the composition of this council has to be reflected of the dynamics of our country as far as the administration of justice and public safety is concerned.



Furthermore, following in-house consultation and need-based research, the department decided to limit appointments to the legal, religious, academic, community involvement and social fields. In relation to this the Select Committee on Security and Justice was presented with a total of 16 names including a motivation for each name. The committee was further in formed on the security screening of the proposed names as requested by the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Correctional Services. The screening report contained both criminal records and the qualifications all candidates and it was submitted to the committee.

The following names were presented to the committee: Ms Amanda Lindokuhle Vilakazi, Adv Yvette Le Roux, Adv Khavhareni Aarone Mahumane, Mr Marothi Aaron Mashifane, Mr Tshepo Nawane, Rev Pogiso France Mookisi, Dr Lineo Rose Johnson, Mr Mziwoxolo Mfeketo, Dr Herma Hargovan, Dr Vanitha Chetty, Ms Vuyelwa K Maweni, Ms Daleen Van Biljon, Dr Yolinda Steyn, Mr Willem A.A Hanekom, Ms Lusanda U.Z Rataemane and Ms Ngenzeni Victoria Mboweni.



After due consideration and deliberation the committee was satisfied with the names and credentials of the persons recommended for appointment.


Hon Chair, the Select Committee on Security and Justice, having deliberated on the appointments and the consultation process recommends that the Council concurs with the appointment of the above listed names to serve on the National Council of Correctional Services as representatives of the public. I thank you.



Debate concluded.




Question put: That the Report be agreed to.

IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West.



AGAINST: Western Cape.




Report accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.






(Policy debate)



Debate on Vote No 5 – Home Affairs:



The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Hon Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, members of the executive, Chairperson of the Select Committee on Security and Justice, the hon Shahidabibi Shaikh, the hon members of the Select Committee on Security and Justice, hon members of the National Council of Provinces, NCOP, ladies and gentlemen, apart from departmental functions the Ministry is also responsible for other entities that are vital for the smooth running of the state.

The Department of Home Affairs is also responsible for the Independent Electoral Commission, IEC, and the Government Printing Works. However, in recent days, a new bay arrived on block, the Border Management Authority, BMA, which was established as a branch and incubated in the Department of Home Affairs since 2020, when the President ascended to the Border Management Authority Act.



Today is the first Budget Speech, since the BMA became the standalone autonomous schedule 3(a) entity from 1 April 2023.


This entity is solely responsible for the management of our boarders and our ports of entry, land, sea and air. Since its autonomous status was attained, the BMA has transferred 1 850 employees from the Departments of Health, Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development, Forestry, Fisheries and the Environment, and the Immigration Office from the Department of Home Affairs. This was done in term of section 37 of the Border Management Authority Act.



Despite some teething problems, the Border Management Authority continued to stand on its own feet. The commissioner who was appointed on 1 November 2021, enjoined by two deputy

commissioners, has been hard at work to stabilise things at our boarders and ports of entry.



In July 2022, the BMA started to deploy border guards and 200 of them were deployed exactly on 14 July 2022. They have been issued with certificates as a third law-enforcement agency of the country, after the army and the Police. The only difference is that they are confined to the borders. The border guards have been deployed as follows: Forty at Beitbridge to deal with the illegal migration and the movement of illicit goods. Twenty two deployed in Giriyondo in the Kruger National Park to address poaching across the borders.

Thirty nine deployed at Libombo to deal with various forms of smuggling. Thirty three deployed at Oshoek to deal with stock theft. Thirty three deployed in Northern KwaZulu-Natal at Kosi Bay to deal with the smuggling of stolen vehicles into Mozambique. And 33 deployed at Maseru Bridge and Ficksburg to deal with the illegal migration.



Recently, another group of border guards have been specifically recruited and deployed at the KwaZulu-Natal Lesotho Border as well as the Eastern Cape Lesotho Border to deal with problems of stock theft. Since their deployment, the border gourds were able to intercept over 35 944 people who

were attempting to enter the country illegally. Further the border guards were able to detect 139 stolen vehicles which were intended to cross the border. About 95 217 undesirable people were denied entry into the country due to various reasons. Since July 2022, the border guards have arrested about 1 651 suspects for breaking various border laws across the land, air and the sea ports of entry.



Presently, the BMA is in the process of recruiting a further

400 border guards.



Hon Chairperson, last week, the BMA met with the Development Bank of Southern Africa. The Minister of Finance has given a go ahead for the Border Management Authority to issue requests for proposals to start a massive project to completely redesign and redevelop our sixth busiest ports of entry. This will be a huge infrastructural and technological injection into the management of our borders. This project will cover the Beitbridge Border Post between Limpopo and Zimbabwe, the Libombo Border Post between Mpumalang and Mozambique, the Oshoek Border Post between Mpumalanga and Eswatini, the Maseru Bridge Border Post between the Free State and Lesotho, the Ficksburg Border Post between the Free State

and Lesotho and the Kopfontein Border Post between the North West and Botswana.



This project will be a multibillion rand project between the state and the private sector in the form of a public-private partnership, PPP. Its actual cost will be known after the bidding process has been completed. The project will breathe life to into the much vaunted Africa Continental Free Trade Agreement. On its completion, these six busiest ports of entry will never look the same again. We hope the Department of Public Service Administration which will be the project manager and the main seat of the project will fanalise their plans in time to issue the request for proposals publicly early in July.



Hon Chairperson, we are looking forward to this massive project.


Let me go to the Government Printing Works which is another entity falling under the Department of Home Affairs. It is by now clear that the Government Printing Works is the biggest state-security printer on the whole continent. It is one of the less talked about state-entities which is self-financing and which is financially sustainable. Not only that, but it

actually sends lots of proceeds to the Treasury which gets deposited into the fiscus.



In the financial year that ended in March this year, the Government Printing Works made a profit of R222 million. It is a much improvement from the previous financial year. This shows that the Government Printing Works, GPW, is on course for the precovid days when it could have easily made a profit of more than half a billion rand.



It is my pleasure to announce that the GPW has concluded Memorandum of Understanding with some Southern African Development Communities, SADC, countries and these are being implemented. As a result of the Memorandum of Understanding, the Government Printing Works have processed the first order of more than 300 000 birth certificates of Namibia and 10 000 of them have already been delivered in Windhoek. The Government Printing Works is now printing secured vocational certificates for the University of Eswatini and its affiliated vocational colleges.



The third foreign order will add further impetus for the financial viability of the Government Printing Works. The Government Printing Works then needs to increase its capacity.

To this end the Government Printing Works has also engaged the Development Bank of Southern Africa, DBSA, to build additional factory space for extra machinery. This new project will cost R1,1 billion. We are eagerly looking forward for its completion because it has already started.



However, Chairperson, with all this progress, the Select Committee on Security and Justice may recall that I have to appoint an advisory panel to investigate inter alia the collapse of the information technology, IT, system within the Government Printing Works which led to the loss of sensitive information. Information that management is hard at work implementing the recommendations made by the panel. No stone will be left unturned in the reconstruction process of the lost information. Whoever was attempting to sink the Government Printing Works in this manner will never succeed.



I will now go to the IEC, another entity reporting to the Department of Home Affairs. The IEC is also expanding its technical expertise beyond the borders of the country. Hon members, a democracy is incapable of recreating itself otherwise it will be destined to impermanents. Vibrant democracies are those capable of redefining the terms of political engagement and reformulating process of political

representation. Such redefining moments are also about responding to the pulse of the nation.



The amended electoral system is not merely about the rules and formula of translating votes into seats in our legislative chambers. The revised electoral system is essentially about a nation redefining process of political mandate and accountability.


Hon Chairperson, I wish to take this opportunity to hardly thank the NCOP of the sterling role it played in shaping the amendment to the Electoral Act in order to allow independent candidates to participate in the provincial and the national elections of the country. Hon Chairperson, I think the NCOP deserve a pad on the shoulder for this sterling work. For without your work, I do not think the Bill will be what it is today.



Maybe let me move over to civic services. Hon Chairperson, we are deeply concerned as a department about the perennial problem of system downtime which we have been experiencing for the longest of time. It has now been aggravated by load shedding. Many people do not understand this and they believe we are scapegoating.

Hon Chairperson, the problem with the Department of Home Affairs is that when there is load shedding, we completely ground to a halt. We simply cannot work. It does not matter whether we have generators or not. For many people are asking why don’t we put generators in all home affairs offices. Even if there are generators, if there is load shedding home affairs will not work. For home affairs depends on the towers of the mobile networks which usually go off when there is load shedding, but State Information Technology Agency, Sita switches also go off.



Now in our relentless efforts to look for solutions we have engaged the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, CSIR. They are devising short-term and long-term solutions for us. We have already handed over, five of our major offices to connect to their alternative networks rather than the Sita network which is causing us so much problems. We are hopeful that this might be a solution seeing to that all the country universities are using the CSIR network. All the scientific researchers in the country including the Square Kilometre Array in the Northern Cape are all connected to this and they do not experience system downtime in the manner in which we are experiencing it. We will soon compare the results of these connected offices to see if they make any difference.

Hon Chairperson, you may remember that during the state of the nation address, two years ago, the President announced that the Department of Home Affairs will hire 10 000 unemployed graduates to degitise our records. We have 350 million paper records that stretch back from 1895. These are records of birth, marriage, death, IDs and passports for South Africans.



Now you can imagine if they are paper records and you start looking for a record of 1895. Some of them will fade away. Others may parish in one way or the other. So, the whole history of the country would have been lost.



There are people who were able to claim their land back by going to our archives and making use of these records which shows who is whose ancestors. So, these are very important records. For that reason, we are very happy that Treasury has given us R2,4 billion over a period of four years to hire these unemployed graduates to digitise these records.



The first cohort of 2 000 young men and women are already busy at work. Hon Chairperson, presently as I am speaking, we are busy interviewing the second cohort to take another 4 000 of them. We will later recruit the last 4 000 to complete the

10 000. To date the department has received 12 of the 20 high

volume scanners that were procured. Each scanner is capable of scanning 300 pages per minute. Our first scanner which was installed in March this year, is able to scan 10 000 records in three hours. So, we are quite happy that this digitisation project will be successful. The records were first degitised by Statistics SA., but it could only degitise five million records per annum. Now if you have 350 million record you can imagine. They do not stop at 350 million, they continue increasing every year. They increase by more than 1,2 billion babies who are born annually or more than one billion young stars who turn 16 every year to make IDs or people who get married every year or more than 350 000 people who die every year and need death certificates. So, it is a moving target and if we do not get a once off amount of money as Treasury has given us, well will never be able to finish the project.

So, for that reason, we are very grateful to Treasury.



The other project which we are very proud off is that throughout the age’s home affairs has been working with 100 mobile trucks to go to villages and issue people with IDs. We have just now added 20 new trucks and as I am speaking, I am proud to mention that we have placed another order of 100 trucks that are manufactured at the Isuzu unit and other units in Qgeberha. We are waiting to receive those 100 extra trucks

in the very same financial year. All of them come with built in generators. Unfortunately, when we go to the villages we still experience problems when there is load shedding.


I am sure you are aware that we also announced that we are increasing another platform from home affairs by going to the malls. We have already opened the state-of-art office at Menlyn Mall. We are continuing to all other malls including KwaZulu-Natal and the Western Cape, to start with.



Hon Chairperson, finally I wish to thank my colleague the Deputy Minister the hon Njabulo Nzuza who is not here today because he has taken ill. I want to apologise for his absence. The Director-General of the Department of Home Affairs and his team, the chief executive officer, CEO, of the Government Printing Works, as well as the Commissioner of the Border Management Authority and his team, for their very sterling work. Let me also not forget the Chairperson of the IEC, Mr Mosotho Moepya and his CEO, Mr Sy Mamabolo.


Hon Chairperson, I cannot stop thanking the Select Committee on Security and Justice, the Chairperson the hon Shaikh and hon members of the committee. I really will not stop thanking you. You might not realise it, but if it was not for your

sterling work the Electoral Law Amendment Act as I said would not have been what it is today.



Hon Chairperson, I hereby table for the consideration of this honourable House an amount of R10 863 billion for the Budget Vote No 5 – Home Affairs. I thank you. [Applause.]



The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you, hon Minister.



We are continuing with the debate. I think the hon Minister deserve a better round of applause. I am not impressed with that round of applause.






Ms S SHAIKH: Hon Deputy Chairperson, greetings to your good self, the Minister of Home Affairs Dr Aaron Motsoaledi, the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs in absentia, the hon Njabulo Nzuza, hon members of this august House, we join South Africans in general and our youth to commemorate and celebrate the youth month that pays tribute to the youth of 1976.



We understand that our young people are faced with challenges including unemployment. In this regard, we are also inspired

by the initiative of creating employment opportunities for young people by the government of Gauteng province led by Premier Panyaza Lesufi, as part of the Youth Day and youth month commemoration. We are hopeful that the “Nasi-ispani” initiative by the government of Gauteng province will find expression in other provinces to deal with some of the challenges of unemployment.



As hon members know, the Department of Home Affairs carries out its mission in line with its commitment to citizen empowerment and inclusivity, economic development, and national security by being an efficient and secure custodian of citizenship and civil registration; securely and strategically managing international migration; efficiently managing asylumseekers and refugees; and efficiently determining and safeguarding the official identity and status of persons.


We know the concerns of our people regarding the Department of Home Affairs. These concerns include the turnaround time for services to clients, which also results in long queues at the Home Affairs offices, migration and border control, the population register being the registration of births within the ideal 30 days after birth, and the backlog in the

application of visas. It is these concerns that were central in our engagement with the Department of Home Affairs on their annual performance plans and the Budget Vote.


A major focus of the National Development Plan, NDP, is to confront the interlinked challenges of poverty, inequality, and unemployment by achieving higher growth rates. The department of Home Affairs contributes to the NDP by ensuring that the inclusion of all citizens in democracy and development is enabled by providing them with a status and an identity that gives them access to rights and services. This must be done in an efficient, effective, professional, and secure manner.



The department also facilitates the acquisition of the critical skills needed for economic growth. This is facilitated, amongst others, by the visa regime of the department being the streamlining and modernizing of the visa application process to make it easier to travel to South Africa for tourism, business, and work, and thus contribute to economic growth.



The department is in the process of the modernisation of its information and communications technology, ICT, systems. The

modernization programme of the department can reduce fraud and the cost of doing business by enabling e-government which will attract more investment in the country.


The issue of border management is critical for ensuring the legal movement of people and goods across our borders. The Border Management Authority, BMA, has been established as a Schedule 3(A) entity as of 01 April 2023 and this will ensure the optimal operation of the BMA. We have noted the positive developments since the establishment of the BMA across our borders, and the Minister has just outlined some of those positive developments.



The Department of Home Affairs will as a priority continue to support the Border Management Authority as a public entity through systems, legislation, policies, and standard operating procedures that form part of the broader approach to managing migration within the Republic. The digitization programme to modernise these services has commenced as announced by the President in the 2022 Sona and the 2023-24 financial year would see 36 million birth records digitized. This continues to be part of the department’ strategy to curb corruption and fraud as the modernization programme would make it easier to

trace the original documents such as birth certificates, identity cards, passports, and other civic documents.



The Automated Biometric Identification System went live in November 2022. The Department of Home Affairs is in the process of implementing phase two which will include additional functionalities such as iris infant footprint and palm print backend recognition capabilities.


The Biometric Movement Control System rollout to 72 ports of entry will be completed in the 2023-24 financial year. The Department of Home Affairs has developed an implementation plan to deal with the Vulindlela task team policy and process recommendations. A multidisciplinary team has been appointed to deal with the Lubisi report recommendations.



Implementation of the Department of Home Affairs repositioning programme is underway. Around 30 projects form part of the programme management office. To deal with long queues, the Department of Home Affairs’ Menlyn office at the Menlyn shopping centre in Pretoria was opened in March 2023, and more malls will follow as the Minister had also indicated.

The Branch Appointment Booking System, Babs, has been rolled out to all 200 modernized offices. The Department of Home Affairs in the process of procuring an additional one hundred mobile offices to cover the 778 visiting points to augment the Department of Home Affairs access model and strategy.



The procurement processes for the passenger name record has started. The P and R system data elements include passenger data from airline reservation systems like payment details, travel itinerary, and baggage information. The P and R is a key component of a risk-based approach to immigration.



The Department of Home Affairs has made significant progress with the implementation of the Protection of Personal Information Act. The department will continue with the implementation of the Department of Home Affairs’ plan to promote gender-based violence and femicide, as well as gender, youth, and persons with disabilities issues. The department will continue in its endeavor to find durable solutions for long lasting systemic challenges such as system downtime through working closely with Sita and other service providers.



This Parliament has passed the Electoral Amendment Bill that has since been signed into law by the President of the

Republic. The Electoral Act will be implemented in the 2024 national and provincial elections. The Electoral Commission of SA, IEC, therefore, must prepare for the upcoming elections and it has already developed a roadmap for the implementation of the Electoral Act.



A budget allocation of over R2 billion has been allocated to the IEC for election preparation and organisation purposes. The transfer of funds to the IEC will further contribute to ensuring that we hold free and fair elections. It is important to emphasise that South Africans should register with the IEC to participate in the 2024 elections. Our participation in elections as voters and candidates entrenches our hard-won democracy. These are welcomed commitments and as a select committee, we play our oversight role to ensure that these commitments are implemented.



Hon Chair, the select committee has made the following recommendations: The department should ensure that they tackle corruption and fraud and protect whistleblowers in the fight against corruption; the department must generate sufficient revenue to rollout sufficient vehicles and obtain the necessary accommodation to provide efficient services to communities; the department must make every effort to speedily

introduce legislation aimed at extending trading hours to Saturdays to address long queues and deliver efficient services to communities; and the department should ensure that it conducts effective training for frontline staff to enhance the friendliness of staff and thereby improve service delivery.



In addition, the department must improve the implementation of measures to improve the overall morale of staff within the department must continue to conduct the necessary inspections and investigations to address the employment of undocumented foreigners at minimum wage within the country. The department should speed up its recruitment of young people and put the necessary mechanisms in place to obtain the equipment needed to digitise its services. The digitisation of services will improve efficient service delivery significant. The department should ensure the effective rollout of the Biometric Movement Control System as this will enhance the department’s effective capturing of data. The Border Management Authority should, within 30 days of adoption of this report, submit the service level agreement between the BMA and the Department of Home Affairs to the committee. The BMA should work effectively to integrate staff with minimal disruption to ensure the effective implementation of the Border Management Authority.

The BMA should also move with speed to ensure the synchronisation of departments for the BMA to be a stand-alone department with its own APP and budget.


We appreciate that the Border Management Authority plays an important role in protecting our borders, addressing illegal migration, and facilitating trade. Therefore, becoming independent and resolving the current challenges will improve the effectiveness of the BMA and the citizens of South Africa.



Furthermore, hon Chair, we commend the youth in the Department of Home Affairs that voluntarily initiated opening of selected Home Affairs offices on June 16, that was Youth Day and June 17th, so that young people could apply and receive their smart IDs. Indeed, this is a symbol of patriotism and in the spirit of Nelson Mandela, who said he admired young people who are concerned with the affairs of their community and nation. We further call upon all young people to actively participate in our hard-won democracy. We call upon young people to register to vote and, if eligible, to exercise their right to vote in the coming elections. Hon Chair, the ANC supports Budget Vote

5 Home Affairs. Thank you.

Mr F J BADENHORST: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members and fellow South Africans, good day. The problem of making a medical doctor, who is used to seeing long queues outside his waiting room, the Minister of Home Affairs is that one cannot realistically expect that the hon Minister would think that queuing outside Home Affairs offices would be out of the ordinary. To him and his administration is just another day at the office.



Minister, perhaps you should get out of your fancy bodyguard protected vehicles and go and see for yourself how ordinary citizens have to stand braving sun, wind and rain for hours on end to do business with your department — business which is unavoidable. Go and speak to those people and you will hear stories of inefficiency and long processing times for various services such as passport applications, visa applications and birth registrations. Even the press has summarised your department as “Queue the beloved country”.



Ten years after the introduction of smart ID cards, South African citizens born outside of South Africa, as well as permanent residents still cannot apply for smart ID cards nor access the online services of Home Affairs. This category of applicants still has to rely on the green barcoded ID book

which at best of times are difficult to obtain, with people having to travel hundreds of kilometres often to return home empty handed due to load shedding or systems being offline.


You are aware of this, Minister, we asked months ago for a list of Home Affairs offices that still supply green barcoded ID books and no response received. Your department does not care that in rural communities, where people suffer from high unemployment rates, people have to go and spend the little money they have left on chartered taxis to go to a Home Affairs office in a neighbouring town, notwithstanding the system downtime brought about by a struggling online system and ANC sponsored rolling blackouts.



The mobile units that are being hailed as a solution to this problem are often deployed without backup generators in areas where there are little to no network coverage, with no card payment machines. Again, requests have been made for deployment schedules of these units in order to assist these communities. The silence from your department is deafening.

Why is the department failing to provide this schedule if the mobile units are in good working order where they are actually deployed?

Massive backlogs of permanent residence applications still exist despite promises of the appointment of more officials to assist with vetting of outstanding applications. The old story of blaming COVID-19 makes a mockery of your department as it is a common fact that there are outstanding applications that date back as far as 2016.



The appointment booking system has proven to be a damp squib, with people lucky enough to have internet connectivity and money for data to make a booking often having to end up sitting in the same long queues as people with no appointments.


The DA has highlighted the need to assist fathers who are indigent to be provided with funds to pay for their DNA tests, as this is a requirement to prove paternity when applying for their children. To date, we have not received any response.

The department is denying indigent fathers a right to obtain documentation for their children. No such problem, though, for Thabo Bester. The man arranged another body in a prison cell as his own. When it comes to considering his late registration of birth, our Minister just takes his word for it that he is Thabo Bester, born in a Soweto hospital in 1986. No need for DNA testing for Thabo.

When the DA calls for free DNA testing for indigence, you are as evasive as Omar Al Bashir or the Guptas, Minister. Your department is marred with corruption and bribery. In fact, six years after the project Lokisa report exposed rampant corruption in Home Affairs refugee offices, we are still waiting to hear what has happened to officials who make money out of keeping the problem going. How many officials engaging in fraudulent activities such as issuing false documents or accepting bribes in exchange for expedited services have been prosecuted over the past term you have served in office, Minister?



South Africa faces a challenge with keeping our extensive borders protected from illegal immigration. One cannot help but wonder if the ineffectiveness to stamp out illegal immigration and smuggling does not come from officials observing the Minister himself flouting the country’s immigration regulations by allowing well connected royal families from abroad to land at local airports proclaimed as such by yourself.



Under the ANC-led government, the number of military units patrolling our borders has been reduced from 35 to just 15. You now have a border management authority that has

capacitated with millionaire managers and 200 so called border guards. If undocumented foreign nationals are streaming in, why don’t we hear about the mass arrests by these 200 border guards? If they are posted at our border posts, why do we receive daily complaints of corruption and lack of staff at Lebombo and Oshoek?



Once in power, the Democratic Alliance will ensure that every person entering our country enters through the correctly designated ports of entry and where a special arrangement is required, we will fully comply with section 30 of the Immigration Act. unlike yourselves in recent case of the Abu Dhabi holiday makers to the Eastern Cape, Minister.



We will ensure that smart ID card applications are open to all South African citizens born outside South Africa, as well as permanent residents. Mobile units will be properly equipped to withstand network connectivity and load shedding issues, and their schedule will be made available to enable Members of Parliament to conduct oversight and local municipalities to properly inform communities of the availability of this service.

Indigent fathers who provide sufficient evidence of their status will be assisted to pay for DNA tests. We will allow officials to work overtime, like for example, Saturdays, to address the backlog on permanent residence applications, and we will ensure the appointment booking system is implemented appropriately to allow applicants with appointments to receive services at their allocated time and curb the long queues.



Minister, the latest Department of Home Affairs scandal where even Constitutional Court judges are baffled by your department’s tardiness in ignoring the 2017 court order to amend immigration legislation, citing again COVID-19 and even the burning down of the National Assembly as excuses, is once more proof that you have no control over your department.



Thank you for issuing a public apology last week, Minister, for your Director General and his merry men for allegedly going behind your back and filing court documents that you were not aware of. But we all know it’s just to try and avoid the pending personal cost order by the court against yourself.


Minister, it is obvious that you don’t know what is going on in the Department of Home Affairs, which you are ultimately responsible for. Why don’t you just go ahead and do the

correct thing; dismiss all those you tell us are to blame and then resign yourself? The queues you seem to enjoy South Africans having to take part in outside your Home Affairs offices will once again take place in 2024 at a very special occasion called the election day, where the people of this country will cast their ballots to rid themselves of you, your department’s incompetence and the ANC-led government once and for all. We do not support this budget. I thank you.



Ms B M BARTLETT: Hon Chairperson, the ANC affirms its support for the passing of the Budget Vote 5 of the Department of Home Affairs and its entities. As the ANC, we have declared the 2023-24 financial year as “The Year of Decisive Action to Advance the People’s Interests and Renew our Movement”.



This declaration is not mere words that sound good to the ear, but a commitment in deeds and actions to advance the people’s interests and renew our movement.


In this input for this budget policy debate, our focus is on the issues of illegal migration and border control. We focus on how decisive the Department of Home Affairs and its entities will implement its policy priorities for this financial year in the people’s interests. For our part as the

Select Committee on Justice and Security in particular, and the Parliament in general, we will play our oversight role to ensure that these policy priorities are implemented by the Department of Home Affairs and its entities.



The challenge of illegal migration and cross-border crimes is a global challenge. The movement of people from one place to another across the borders, may be due to the pull and push factors. For us as South Africa, we are also an attractive destination for many migrants from across the world. Largely, our country is seen as one of the attractive destination for economic pull factors. This attractiveness of South Africa to international migrants can be attributed to the gains of our democracy. The peoples of the world seem to have passed a motion of economic confidence in South Africa.



The fact is that our country will always open its borders to international guests, both from our own continent of Africa and from elsewhere in the world. When we open our borders to migrants from across the world, we do so with the understanding that our guests will visit our country with the necessary traveling documents, but this is not always the case. There are those who come to our country for various reasons and without the necessary traveling documents. These

illegal guests are of our concern given that they broke our migration laws.



As the ANC, this matter of illegal migration has been part of our policy discussion for some time and in the end, we adopted a resolution that called on the government to strengthen border management and control. We agree that cross-border crimes are of serious concern to all of us. Most of our provinces along the border are affected by cross-border crimes. The border between KwaZulu-Natal and Mozambique is a course for concern regarding vehicle theft and other goods, so is the border between the Kingdom of Lesotho with Eastern Cape and Free State with regard to among other things livestock theft across the border.



However, we note the kind of interventions that our government has come up with to strengthen border management and control and thus address the challenges of cross-border crimes. One of the challenges we noted was the fragmented way in which border management and control is been executed by state agencies and institutions assigned for border management and control.



And therefore, we resolved on the introduction of Border Management Authority through the Border Management Act. The

Border Management Authority has been established as a Schedule 3(A) as already indicated earlier in the debate. The Border Management Authority will integrate and co-ordinate border management in accordance with the Constitution, international and domestic law. This integrated and coordinated approach will ensure that the roles of the various state institution that executes their responsibilities at the ports of entry work in tandem towards a common objective.



The BMA will ensure the collaboration and co-ordination of the work of the Border Management Authority, BMA, the SA Police Service, SAPS, the SA national Defence Force, SANDF, and other border authorities to deal with the issues of migration and border control. The budget allocations to the Border Management Authority will further ensure that it executes its mandate of border management and control and thus address the challenges of illegal migration.



We are well aware that more engagement is still to be undertaken to ensure that the BMA allocations are increased in the future budget allocations within the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework. Our engagement with the department of Home Affairs and its entities was informed and guided by what the ANC’s national executive committee, NEC, has outlined as

policy priorities for this financial year for Home Affairs. In our NEC Lekgotla that was held in January this year, and among the policy that is prioritised in this financial year, include the matter of laying the basis for the consideration for harmonising the migration and refugee laws.



In this regard, we are encouraged that the Department of Home Affairs is in the process of finalising the White Paper to deal with the challenges of migration and refugees. When we deal with the issues of migration and refugees, we are moving from the position that South Africa will always open its port of entry for foreign guests to visit South Africa, to work in South Africa, or to stay in South Africa.


We are also informed and guided by the African Union, AU, Protocol on Free Movement of Persons which outlines that foreign nationals of member states should enter or leave the host country in accordance with the laws and procedures of the host country. The economic integration of our continent as outlined in the Africa Continental Free Trade Agreement, AFCFTA, can only thrive in an environment of legality. We must encourage all our citizens to travel between our countries with the necessary traveling documents.

The harmonisation of our immigration laws is intended to address the challenges we encounter with regard to migration as well as codifying the AU Protocol. Additional measures to strengthen border management and control will further be enhanced by the One-Stop Border Post Bill that has been published by the government for public comments. The Bill amongst other things will establish a one-stop border post that will be jointly managed by South Africa and the adjoining state.



We urge the public to contribute in comments on the Bill to ensure that our country and the adjoint states will deal with cross-border challenges in a co-ordinated and collaborative manner. As we said earlier, there are push factors that contribute to the migration of people from across the world to our shores. These factors may include situations of conflict and social instability such as inadequate economic activities and opportunities. Also, the challenges of governance in some countries compel their citizens to search for greener pastures elsewhere, and some do come to South Africa.



As a country, we are signatory to treaties regulating international migration as well as our obligation toward refugees and asylum seekers. It is a fact that our country is

home to many refugees and asylumseekers. We are consistent in our approach to the reception of refugees and asylum seekers. We have resolved in our ANC NEC Lekgotla of 2023 that the ANC- led government must introduce a single legislation to deal with citizenship, immigration and refugee protection as it is now an international trend.



In this regard, we are aware that the Department of Home Affairs is currently in the process of developing legislation on marriages to close the legislative gap relating to acquiring of citizenship as well as the Green Paper on International Migration. The ANC supports the Budget Vote 5 of the Department of Home Affairs and its entities. I thank you, hon Chairperson.



Ms M DLAMINI: Chairperson, as we commemorate June 16, it is also worth noting that the first statement that was released by the ANC, was to condemn the youth of 1976. I stand here on behalf of the EFF, a gigantic movement of our people. A generation that has committed to restore the dignity of the dispossessed and marginalised, to resolutely rejects the proposed budget for the Department of Home Affairs.

We reject the budget of a Minister who compromises the dignity of African nationals in this country, in particular Zimbabweans, through the continued wavering of the Zimbabwean exemption permit. Leaving Zimbabweans in this country dangling for another six months facing challenges obtaining bank cards, driver’s licences and having to spend a lot of money on waiver applicants. Under the watchful eye of this Minister, African nationals are being scapegoated for the challenges faced by South Africa, such as crime, unemployment and lack of medical services. It is shameful, Minister, and no amount of denialism can make us unsee or unhear the utterances of your stance that immigration is only condemned when its black.



We can only draw a conclusion from an uber driver here in Cape Town, Sebastian, who is in possession of a section 24 visa since 2004 and has been sent from pillar to post to finalise his application for indefinite refugee is being victimised by this department, and that you Minister, cannot positively account for every person in this country. The Minister has a duty to facilitate, regulate and execute South Africa’s immigration laws and policies, but this has not been the case. Refugees and asylum seekers face difficulties in accessing their rights due to this department’s failures to produce

efficient immigration services. This is a frustrating process due to the unfriendly staff, backlogs and system failures.



Home Affairs stands as a department of disarray, even creating a backlog and adding to the overflow of prisoners in the correctional facilities to process immigrants that needs to be released for deportation. There needs to be a cleanup in its acts, starting with the upgrading of their offices and technology used. There needs to be a control of the unprocessed documents securely so that they are not sold randomly at the side of the road to any citizen trying to bypass the system. The list of grievances, which include the long list of queues, systems being offline, and only a handful of people being assisted, needing repeated visits to the local department before any assistance is received. It has become an accepted norm that one may have to take time off from everyday commitments to queue outside one of the department’s offices for hours, even then assistance is not guaranteed.



The effects of load shedding have added to the strain as the power damage which also affects the ups when the generator tries to kick in. This means that Home Affairs offices across the country are rendered useless. Unable to issue out smart IDs, passports, and temporary identity certifications during

power cuts. We also note that the officials withhold documents and only release them by asking for additional payments and bribes in order to fast track and complete process.


We also note a disturbing report where persons who are still alive, whose death certificate was issued out on their behalf whilst they are alive and well. As was a case of an elderly woman who was covered on a reality show, S'Khipha AmaFiles, where it took a total of five years and the intervention of a media platform to restore her identity. It is not clear how many of these criminal syndicates planted in this department have been taken through prosecution and how often are livestock audits conducted on employees.



It is also concerning how the procurement processes for IT systems is being handled as the international company contracted by the Department of Home Affairs to install an automated biometric identification system meant to upgrade its population register system has failed to deliver.



Minister Motsoaledi has failed to eradicate the problem of long queues at the department. He has specifically failed to resolve the ICT problems that have led to excessive delays in the processing of applications at this department. His

treatment of Zimbabwean permit holders is indicative of his deep-seated hatred for fellow Africans.



As we move towards the 2024 general elections, the department ought to embark on an initiative on intensive birth and ID registration campaign, working together with the IEC to ensure that those who need IDs get them, and that everyone who should be registered to vote is registered. We also called for the automatic registration of everyone who attained the age of 18 in this country. There is no plausible reason why Home Affairs and IEC should be opposed to this, unless only for the fear of losing elections. Chairperson, the EFF reject this Vote.


Mr G MICHALAKIS: Chairperson, in 1930, Dr DF Malan who would later become an apartheid Prime Minister, was the Minister of Home Affairs. He tabled, in 1930, a law known as the Immigration Quota Act to impose restrictive measures on the entry of immigrants. Among those who were undesirable, were Lithuanians, in effect Jews, and Greeks. I am a Greek. Among the lone voices in opposition, was a Jewish MP from the United Party, Emile Nathan. He stood up and fought in this Parliament for people he’s never known and likely never met. Who did not look like him or in many cases believed like him. He fought for them because they were humans. Joel Joffe, Arthur

Chaskalson, Harold Wolpe, Joe Slovo, Ronnie Kasrils and Dennis Goldberg were all the descendants of Lithuanian Jews who arrived here earlier, but who would have found the doors closed to them in 1930. George Bizos was a Greek refugee himself, who came here 11 years after Dr Malan’s Draconian Law, as a refugee.



Mandela’s comrades and lawyers were the children of immigrants. It is unthinkable that almost a century later, the members of the ANC – Mandela’s very own party – would say to another immigrant descendant of those who were denied entry in 1930 that I should go back to where I came from. That I do not belong to this country. But it happened Minister - in this House. Those words Chairperson, were uttered by no fewer than three ANC members in this House on that day, and the ANC just swept it under the rug.



It was the equivalent of saying to every other immigrant in this country, that they should go back to where they came from, including the descendants of George Bizos. But the ANC would never have said that to him. They only become racist and xenophobic the moment you’re no longer on their side. The moment you point out to them that they are wrong, the ANC of today becomes more like DF Malan and less like Nelson Mandela.

In fact, if we have a close look at what is going on at the immigration offices and Home Affairs branches, we will find something that will impress nationalists like Malan immensely.


This week in the Rapport I read about an American who invested and built a business in renewable energy that has been operating for 10 years here. He put his entire pension into South Africa and is currently giving work to 30 people. Home Affairs declined his permanent residence application because he doesn’t have a master’s degree. In another case I’ve heard of a German engineer’s visa that was declined and an Italian friend of mine, who owns businesses and properties, but more importantly, pays taxes here, was refused citizenship after living in South Africa for decades. The very same taxes that helps this government to build schools, hospitals, houses, and roads. It’s not ANC money, its tax money. And this government is chasing away taxpayers. But the way it treats African immigrants and refugees is even worse. Around 90 000 South Africans are estimated to receive a rental income from renting out their property to immigrants for shops. Every time an immigrant buys stock from a wholesaler, he or she pays sales tax, that benefits South Africans. Let’s say there are

3 million legal immigrants in this country renting a room for R300 per month from a South African, it would be an economic

benefit of R9 billion per year to poor South Africans just in rent income.



Yes, of course we have Immigration Laws that must be followed. I do not for one second advocate that it should be a free for all. No country in the world can afford that. But then we need to help those who want to follow these laws to do so easily, instead of putting every possible stumbling block in their way. We should make it as easy as possible for those who can bring skills, and investment and who are willing to work hard, to come here and build a future in South Africa. It will create jobs and competition and an economy from which all of us can benefit.



Chairperson, then there is also a segment of persons who are here because they have nowhere else to go, asylum seekers.

South Africa has an international obligation to fulfil its duties towards these individuals. It also has a humanitarian obligation, which we are failing at. The United Nations Convention defines a refugee as persons who have a well- founded fear of persecution or who need protection from torture or are at risk of cruel and unusual treatment or punishment in their home country. Helping refugees or asylum seekers is not opening the flood gates, it’s being humane.

The irony of the ANC’s actions is that it is willing to protect Al-Bashir and Vladimir Putin, but it treats those fleeing from the Al-Bashir and Vladimir Putin like trash.


The majority of these individuals, unlike their Presidents, are not criminals. They go through the process of trying to get permits and apply for refugee status, but the process on the side of the immigration office at Home Affairs is so pathetic, that it feels deliberate. It feels like a conscience political decision not to help desperate individuals. Can I remind you, as I said earlier: George Bizos, the man who saved Mandela from the gallows, was not an immigrant. He was a refugee.



South Africa today, has the same kind of guilt to bare for closing its doors to those desperate for a place of safety, as the National Party had for closing the doors just before the Second World War. How pathetic is the ANC for using vulnerable people on the one side and people who create jobs for South Africans on the other, as scapegoats for their own failure.

How pathetic is the ANC for instilling hatred and xenophobia among South Africans when it is too spineless to acknowledge to South Africans that the ANC itself is the reason why they don’t have work or food.

What this country needs in terms of immigration policy is simple. It needs to have leadership that will show through its example that all humans should be treated with respect as our Constitution requires. It should make it as easy as possible for those who want to bring skills and investment to create jobs, to come here and do so freely. It should put effective processes in place to ensure that those who seek refuge and asylum can find a place of safety in this country as so many South Africans did in those countries during apartheid. I fear that in all three tasks, Home Affairs is failing as a consequence of its own incompetence and as an extension of the ANC’s racist agenda.



In the final minutes of the first episode of the West Wing, President Bartlet reads a message about immigrants who have survived at all odds to reach American shores. He then says to his staff:



With the clothes on their backs, they came through a storm. And the ones that didn’t die want a better life. And they want it here. Talk about impressive.

My point is this, break is over. Chairperson, this Minister needs to say to his department that the break is over. We need to do better. We need to be better people. Thank you.


Mr M A P DE BRUYN: Hon Chairperson, the Department of Home Affairs has a duty to protect the interests of South African citizens by ensuring that our borders are secure, our citizenship is protected and our identity documents, IDs, are secure and accessible. Hon Chair, am I audible?



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: You are audible. Please proceed.



Mr M A P DE BRUYN: Thank you. Unfortunately, we have seen numerous instances where the department has failed in its mandate and one of the primary concerns is the management of immigration. The department has failed to effectively manage immigration and is unable to track undocumented immigrants and persons whose documents have expired, resulting in a number of negative consequences for our country. We have seen increased crime, unemployment and a strain on our social services due to uncontrolled immigration. The department must take a more proactive approach to manage immigration, including strengthening our border control and ensuring that only those

who meet our immigration criteria are allowed to enter our country.



Furthermore, the department has failed to provide adequate services to South Africans who require IDs and passports, and we have seen long waiting times in queues, lost documents and other issues that have made it difficult for South Africans to obtain the documents they need to access their rights and services. The department must take a more proactive approach to service delivery by investing in technology and personnel to ensure that South Africans can obtain their IDs in a timely and more efficient manner.


Moreover, inadequate infrastructure poses significant challenges for the department. Insufficient space and resources at their offices contribute to overcrowding and prolonged waiting times, and the department must invest in expanding its facilities and upgrading its infrastructure to accommodate the increasing demand and provide service delivery.



The department has already failed in its mandate to such an extent that extraordinary measures to address the serious state that the department finds itself in should have been

implemented years ago but as we know it hasn't. What can we expect from a department with a staffing level of only 36% and an ANC government that only caters for itself?




Die Departement van Binnelandse Sake staan voor verskeie uitdagings. Daar is herhalende klagtes van korrupte praktyke, swak dienslewering en swak bestuur, en die VF Plus eis vir die implementering van strenger maatreëls om korrupte gedrag uit te roei en bekwame personeel aan te stel om te verseker dat die departement doeltreffend en doelgerig funksioneer.



Verlede jaar hierdie tyd het ons die beloftes van die departement oor die implementering van nuwe stelsels en geriewe om te verseker dat die werksaamhede van hierdie departement verbeter gehoor, maar ’n jaar later is die dienslewering van hierdie departement van so ’n aard dat die rye en die wagtye vir dokumentasie net langer en langer geword het.


Suid-Afikaners is moeg vir die leë beloftes jaar na jaar van die departement en die regering. Ons verdien veilige grense, die beskerming van ons identiteit en effektiewe dienslewering. Ons verdien ’n regering wat korrupsie sal bekamp en ten bate

van die belastingbetaler werk en ons verdien ’n departement en ’n regering wat ons kan vertrou om by sy beloftes en sy woord te hou. So ’n regering sal wel na die 2024 verkiesing gevestig word. Dankie.





Mr N M HADEBE: Hon Minister, over the past decade or so our country has been on a destructive path of being a failed state, with our rule of law dissipating further and further. As it stands, the Department of Home Affairs as an organ of the state seems to be damaged a little closer to beyond redemption, but as the IFP we will not despair as South Africans are dependent on its services. This is why a fully functional, modern, well-equipped and world-class Home Affairs is of extreme urgency. Unfortunately, the reality is that this department continues to fail our people with its systems continually off line and our national IDs and passports still being sold for just a few hundred rand. Above everything, corruption remains the order of the day in the corridors of this department.



As a party, we have brought to the attention of government, communities in northern KwaZulu-Natal such as Umkhanyakude, which continue to be under siege from cross-border crime

syndicates. If I were to stand here and act shocked by this, I would be quite economical with the truth. Such things are inevitable owing to the fact that this department has no way of monitoring whether foreign nationals who enter the country truly and indeed leave when their time is up. Put simply, this department is not aware of who is in the country, legally or illegally.



The sight of long and never-ending queues outside Home Affairs offices has become a norm, as South Africans rise at the crack of dawn each day to wait for assistance. Thousands of our citizens use their last bit of money to travel to this department's offices, and more often than not do not get assistance and are forced to come back the following day.



This department's inability to handle its own affairs has opened a pathway to a migration crisis. Although the government, from as early as 2019, spoke to our immigration crisis and gave a number of undertakings, nothing has come of it. In fact, one can almost argue that the state of the department has done nothing but regress. The physical infrastructure at our borders is missing and almost nonexistent. This highlights the failure of the Border Management Authority, BMA, as in most instances to begin with,

there are no borders to manage. Year after year, we provide actionable solutions to this government and yet they are not followed up on.


The accessibility of this department needs to be improved. This can be done by increasing its footprint with banks and by increasing its call centre ... [Inaudible.] Corruption has proven to be the biggest enemy of our progress and until it is addressed, all other efforts will be futile and in vain.



Foreign ownership and participation in certain types of small, medium and micro enterprises, SMMEs, must be regulated and limited, if necessary. Spaza shops, which have provided a sense of livelihood for millions of South Africans, need to be reserved strictly for locals, whilst reserving entry-level or no skill job opportunities for locals, with foreign nationals being pulled only for scarce skills which cannot be sourced in the country.



The failure of this department puts the safety and security of the state at high risk, by exposing it to anybody with an intention to benefit from the South African dream.

Notwithstanding this, the IFP supports this policy debate. I thank you.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: The next speaker is hon Ndongeni. Oh, sorry, it’s Smit before Ndongeni. Yes, hon Smit, sorry.



Mr C F B SMIT: Hon Chairperson, the hon Ndongeni could have spoken before me. Then I could sweep her a bit. Hon Minister, I’ve stood here and I've seen you speak in various other portfolios when you were a Minister, and I must say I was very, very discouraged by your discomfort within this portfolio. It is concerning because if we have a Minister who doesn’t really feel comfortable in the portfolio, it really does not give anybody in this country hope at this stage.



Minister, you said that the BMA is now standing on its feet. Instead, I think it's actually standing on its head because if, for example we look at Lebombo gate towards Mozambique, which I had the privilege to actually go through or should I rather say the horror in passing by, at that stage when I was standing there the coal trucks with export coal were standing

10 kilometres, and I kid you not, 10 kilometres from the gate, sometimes two or three trucks next to each other. I don't know when they will get through the gate there. Before, I also had the experience of Mozambican citizens that were passing out or leaving the country while they didn't have documentation. They said, no, we don't have to worry. As long as we've got a R10

or R20, we will quickly slip through the border. Our border gates are as good as you having a gate at your house but with no fence. So, you know the gates are protected but the fences are open. People are coming and going as they like.



I must say that the ANC has accepted defeat because when I listen to the Minister there are no plans, no solutions, no hope, no future. It is like a dying horse giving its last kicks and there is really no solution from the ANC. So, we need a new government in 2024.


Minister, you also forgot to acknowledge that today is World Refugee Day, so I will do that and I will acknowledge all the refugees in the world. Thank you very much.




Nksz N NDONGENI: Heke, wangena uDlaminini nazoo ke. Enkosi Sihlalo. Malungu eBhunga leSizwe laMaphondo nakwabo bakunye nathi ngonxibelelwano lobuxhakaxhaka, ndiyanibulisa ngale mvakwemini. Makhe ndiqale nje ...




Nksz N NDONGENI: Uyabulisa umama ebulisa kootata. Sihlalo ndiyacela nje kancinci ndikhe ndithethe nelungu elihloniphekileyo uBadenhorst. Hayi, njani na ngoku? He bethuna! Hayi baza kumxelela abakhoyo. Uze uthi ndithe, makaqhube ngokuphupha kuba intle into yokuphupha asinto imbi. Okwesibini, yingxoxo-mpikiswano le, makangadlali indoda makadlale ibhola. Uze uthi kutsho uNokuzola obegqitha.



Nkosazana yakwaDlamini, hayi uyathetha. Ukuthetha kwakho kwezi zinto zimbi uzibonayo zokuba kwatyiwa imali, kutheni ungayi emapoliseni nje kuba unolwazo onalo uheleleni nalo? Into yokuba ume apha ufun’injezu ayizi kukuncenda nganto. Uyaqonda ke nhanha? Iphupha lakho limnandi kodwa kungangcono ukuba ungalisa emapoliseni nathi siza kukuqhwabela. Mnu Michalakis uphi ngoku? Heee babalekile. Jonga, into eyenzekayo kaloku bhuti musani ukuzenza ngathi nanimthanda uTata uMandela, anizange namthanda. Ndiqinisekile ngesaphila ukuba wayengazange afakwe eziseleni. Ngoko musa ukufun’injezu apha wenze ngokungathi nanimthanda. Anizange nimthande esaphila, nimthanda ngoku sele eswelekile.



Wena ke Mnu Smit, ukuba utsala umdla apha, hayi kuphelile ngawe kuza kufuneka uphinde ukhangele. Mandibuyele ke ngoku – nazoo ke kuqalwa kanjalo.



As we know the Department of Home Affairs plays a critical role in providing secure, efficient accessible to services and documents to citizens and lawful residents. All of us at least interact with the Department of Home Affairs from birth with the issuing of birth certificates and later with the issuing of identity documents. Some do interact with the department for marriage certificates and we also get our traveling documents from the department. In the end, our death certificate for our families.




Andiyazi ke xa besithi yi ...





... dying horse ...





... kuba bantanta phaya, kuba ngasa baya khona.






So, every person in South Africa will in one way or the other interact with the Department of Home Affairs. It is in this context that the Department of Home Affairs draws a lot of

interest from the rest of us as citizens and people in South Africa. This debate on Budget Vote 5 of the Department of Home Affairs and its entities has to reflect on the critical interface that the department has with the people in South Africa.



Chairperson the department has to process the people who visit our country such as tourists, as asylum seekers and as refugees.




Andiyazi ke le bayithethayo nokuba bafuna ukuvotelwa kusini na. Inokuba uDlamini ufuna babavotele.




With regards to citizen affairs management, the department has to ensure birth registration within 30 days per year, the issuing of smart ID cards as well as the issuing of passports for the traveling purposes and visas.




Qhuba Mphathiswa, zikhonkotha ehambayo ungakhathazeki.





There are measures that the department in its annual performance plan and reflected in the Budget Vote. These include the issues of the modernisation of the system at Home Affairs. The modernisation entails the application of higher ICT system to fast-track the services of Home Affairs to our people. We have noted the establishment of new modernised offices such as the one in Menlyn Mall in the east of Victoria. The other one is the recently opened office in Epping, here in the Cape Metro.



There are challenges that the modernisation programme of Department of Home Affairs seeks to address. This is related to the challenges of long queues at Department of Home Affairs offices. Some of the interventions including the branch appointment booking system, BABS. With this system, Department of Home Affairs clients will make bookings online for appointment to get whatever service they require from the department at their convenient time.




Niyeke ukumisa ngemigca emide yeSebe leMicimbi yezeKhaya. Mamelani, siyazivuma kodwa siyanixelela ukuba ikhona into esiyenzayo.



We have ...





... hayi yima wena ndiza kukuhoya.





We have noted some challenges that impact the BABS system. This includes network challenges that are compounded by load shedding. In this regard, we urge the Department of Home Affairs to engage our state institutions to address the challenges of information technology, IT system and network challenges.



Chairperson, we are aware of the engagement that is taking place between the Department of Home Affairs, and State Information Technology Agency, Sita as well as engagement with the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, CSIR to find a solution to the information and communications technology, ICT network challenges. We will pay a close eye to these engagements as part of our oversight role to ensure these challenges are addressed.




Siyazivuma izono zethu kwaye sitsho ukuba ziza kulungiswa.






We note and welcome the commitment by the department to take services to the people in the form of roll out of mobile trucks. The mobile trucks will assist in bringing Department of Home Affairs services to our people who are in areas far from the Department of Home Affairs offices.




Sithetha ngeendawo ezisezilalini. Nam ke kulaa ngingqi (constituency) yam kuyahanjwa kuyiwe ezilalini nasezikolweni kuncediswe ukwenzela abantwana izazisi.




Chairperson, we are also aware that the department has signed a memorandum of understanding with the Department of Basic Education to provide services to learners in schools. This initiative is considerate of the fact that, learners should be in school and learning rather than spending their learning time visiting Department of Home Affairs offices.



In his state of the nation address, the President outlined that the Department of Home Affairs will make further

recruitment of graduates for the digitisation of millions of the Department of Home Affairs records. This was further emphasised by the Minister of Home Affairs in presenting the Budget Vote of Home Affairs last month when he said, I quote:



The digitisation project will employ 10 000 unemployed graduates in the field of IT and documentation management.



The Minister further said, I quote:




The first group of 2 000 unemployed graduates which had been trained earlier this year have already taken up positions and are already working. Currently additional 4 000 candidates are undergoing interviews process. Advertisements for the last

4 000 will be published by the end of May 2023.





Ndicela ukuba niyilaldelele ningezi apha kuthi nibe nithetha into engekhoyo.




Besides the fact that this digital digitisation of the Department of Home Affairs document will ensure the securing of Department of Home Affairs records. This programme will

also contribute to creating employment to our young graduates. This is a step in the right direction and is welcomed.




Khwawuqhwabe izandla Smit kuloo ndawo.





Chairperson ...





... hayi wena ungadlali.





We also appreciated that the Department of Home Affairs has an appointed advisory panel investigating inter alia the collapse of the IT system within the GPW, which led to the loss of sensitive information, including financial information. The Department of Home Affairs has committed to the reconstruction process of the lost information. Our ... [Inaudible] ... in the aggressive programme of attracting investment to our country. One of these initiatives is the Presidential Investment Conference which has already surpassed this target of R1,2 trillion.

Our country also intends to attract tourists from across the world, as part of the Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan, outlined by the President. In addition, our country also intends to attract the scarce skills that our economy requires for its growth. The Department of Home Affairs has become critical in the facilitation of these investment initiatives, as it provides the necessary travelling documents including visas.





Awuyi ke wena Dlamini eJamani.





There have been challenges of backlog in the visa applications. We noted in the annual performance plan that the Department of Home Affairs is committed to implement the report and the recommendation of Operation Vul’indlela and also to introduce the e-Visa system for other areas such as business, study, general workers and intracompany transfer visas, and that ultimately all visas should be available on the e-Visa system.



Chairperson, we note that the Department of Home Affairs has put measures to fight corruption within the organization. We

note the actions that have been undertaken by the department on the employees and officials who are found to be on the wrong side of the law.




Nithathe iincwadi enizaziyo nizise kuba nathi siyababambisa.






As I conclude ...




... bhuti thula ufe.






As we said earlier, we support this Budget Vote 5 of the Department of Home Affairs. We do so mindful of the fact that the department will require support from all of us. We will play our role as representative of the people to ensure that the commitment made by the department and its entities are implemented. The ANC supports Budget Vote 5 of the Department of Home Affairs and its entities.




Enkosi Sihlalo. Wena xa sihamba nisilandele.

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: You want me to lie in confidence as you have been doing? Well, hon Badenhorst, I thought you will be very well informed before you start throwing stones and mud at everything that is ANC. I thought you would have to get facts. We, in Home Affairs, positively identified Thabo Bester before we offered him his ID. We did that via a process called Late Registration of Birth, LRB, which is a process that Home Affairs gets involved in every day. In addition to the LRB which identified him, police did a DNA on Thabo Bester and there was a match between him and the woman who told us that she gave birth to him at Chris Hani Baragwanath Hospital. We then went to Baragwanath and found the records that have been there since 37 years ago in the labour ward. We even found documents at the school where he went. However, more than anything else, the police did a DNA.



I am not sure why there is this obsession from the DA because they keep on repeating it also in the National Assembly even after I have provided this information. There is a DNA match between Thabo Bester and Maria Meisie Bester who is now Mabaso. The DNA matches. so, I don’t know why ... There seems to be a belief from DA that we must do a DNA test on every black person we meet. We don’t do that. That seems to be the

standard, but we don’t do that. Maybe I must explain how the LRB works.



At Home Affairs the standard is that you must take your ID before 30 days after birth. Every time the registration is after 30 days is regarded as an LRB, especially after one year. If you have been without an ID for one year after being born, you don’t go to Home Affairs and get an ID; they have to start an LRB. What does that mean? It means we try and identify you by going to all the places you could have been registered, be it a creche, preschool, Sunday school, church or royal family. that's where you could have been, whether a cash preschool or Sunday school or church royal family. If you ever went to a school or any place where you tell us you have been, we go and get documents from there. We even go to clinics or hospitals where you tell us you were born, like we did with Thabo Bester.



Once we get those documents, we don’t give you an ID, we set up a tribunal. Every Home Affairs office has a tribunal that meets quite frequently to look into those documents. If they believe the documents make sense, then they pass a resolution that you must get your ID. In extreme cases they then go and

do a DNA. So, DNA is not standard for everybody who wants an ID as DA seems to believe.



There is this issue that no, this department has collapsed and all that. Our last report in the National Assembly shows that 90% of all the 1,2 million kids who were born in the last financial year, were given IDs by Home Affairs in the first 30 days. Only 10% got them after 30 days.


We have never failed. We have never heard about an election having failed because Home Affairs did not issue IDs. All the elections that took place were successful and declared free and fair. All of you here in this House have bank accounts because you have documents from Home Affairs. None of you will ever say they have failed to obtain a bank account because Home Affairs did not give them any documents. Nobody is at any university in South Africa today without having had documents from Home Affairs.



This year, the South African Revenue Service, Sars, was praised by all and sundry for a massive success in the collection of R1,5 trillion. I have news for you — Sars did that because they got documents from Home Affairs. The South African Revenue Services would never have achieved that feed

if Home Affairs was unable to give documents. That would have never happened.



The issue of the Electoral Commission, IEC, hon Mathevula, just to give you information, we don’t wait for elections to meet with the IEC; we meet with the IEC every month to look at people who have passed on and remove them from the voters’ roll, and those who have just been included by virtue of reaching the age of voting. That is what happens monthly. We compare those notes and if there are any problems, we solve them long before elections. We don’t just rush and say, IEC let’s meet because there is an election; it is something that is ongoing.



Chairperson, the issue of what is happening in Mozambique, hon Smit, it is painful to us ... I mean the trucks issue in Lebombo, but it has nothing to do with Home Affairs because it is a customs matter. Customs don’t fall under Border Management Authority, BMA. It was this House that corrected the National Assembly’s mistake of putting Sars and customs under BMA. It is this House that removed it and sent the Bill back to the National Assembly. I thought you would know better.

The problem in what is happening in Mozambique is not even with Sars; it is because the customs systems in Mozambique are manual. Those trucks on the South African side are cleared even before they reach the border posts, but when they arrive there, they are done manually. We are discussing with Mozambique to solve this problem because it’s not in the interests of both countries. It is not because Home Affairs is failing and that’s why I mentioned the reconstruction of our border posts. That was my sentence I started with here that we are going for requests for proposals to rebuild six of the busiest border posts, that includes Lebombo.



Part of that project, which I indicated will be a multibillion-rand project, is to solve the problem that you are talking about. We are asking Mozambique to start making their systems automated so that the trucks can pass. All mining companies in South Africa in North West, in Mpumalanga, in Limpopo have taken a decision that they no longer use Richards Bay they are using Maputo harbour.


The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I am giving you a minute, Minister, to ... [Inaudible.]

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Thank you. Yes, thank you very much. They are using Maputo harbour and that’s why chrome, platinum, everything ... and yes, it’s true that those queues go up to 20km. However, the moment the customs in Mozambique resolve their issues in order to welcome them, or if they don’t, the one stop border post that we are building will eventually solve this problem. So, please get facts before you attack. This thing has nothing to do with BMA.



On the issue of corruption, Chairperson, regardless of how we attack it, we fight it every day. We have a counter corruption unit that is working. From last year to now we have already suspended 32 officials. We charged them and we are putting some to the Hawks.



Two nights ago, people saw something on TV about a lady who was selling drugs and giving IDs, the following day she was already arrested, suspended and charged. We do that all the time. We charged, fired and handed to the Hawks the lady who was selling visas to Pakistani nationals to come here illegally from Namibia. Unfortunately, she died when the Hawks were just about to arrest her. Yes, we do that every day we arrest lots of people.

There is none of you who can ever blame the department for resting on our laurels when it comes to corruption. This year only we have demoted two DDG to a level of a director for misdemeanours. I don’t think there’s any place where you can quote such a thing happening, where you have heard people being demoted from DDG, but we have done it at Home Affairs because we want to bring an end to corruption. Thank you, Chairperson.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you, Minister, as you take your seat. Hon delegates, we have now come to the end of the debate on Budget Vote 5 – Home Affairs. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Minister for availing himself to answer questions at this sitting of the National Council of Provinces. Appreciation also goes to MECs and special delegates for participating in the sitting. Thank you very much, Minister. We will now proceed to the next debate. Please feel free to leave, Minister. Thank you very much. We will now proceed to the Seventh Order.






(Policy debate)

Vote No 29 - Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development:







KWEZINDAWO ZASEMAKHAYA: Mphathisihlalo, malungu ahloniphekile ale Ndlu, uSekela Ngqongqoshe uMama u-Capa, uSekela Ngqongqoshe uBaba uSkwatsha, amalungu wonke omnyango kanye nalawo eminyango esisebenzisana nayo, ngibingelele kuwo wonke umuntu okhona la eNdlini nalabo abasemakhaya




Chairperson, this address happens when we are in the middle of the citrus season, where one of our regions in this country Citrusdal here in the Western Cape is experiencing the impact of heavy rains that is making it impossible for the farmers to go to the fields and their pack houses. In consultation with the province, we will look at interventions that are appropriate to salvage at best as is possible the crops and meet to the demands of the market, both locally and internationally.



These rains while welcomed particularly in filling our dams in this province, its disruption and destruction points to the inclement weather patterns that once again remind us of the

reality of climate change. Adaptation and adoption of new technologies and farming systems must become part and parcel of our planning process going forward. This year marks 47 years after the June 16 riots in Soweto and across the country marked the braveness of our young people in confronting the apartheid government and contributing towards the liberation of our country.



It is these young people whom we honour and want to emulate by ensuring that the young people of today work towards the reconstruction and development of a postapartheid South Africa which they fought for. It is these young people who are asking for government to hold their hands in developing new industries and strengthening old ones with new innovation, as well as passion. About 500 young farmers whom we met at Nasrec last Friday, in partnership with food for Mzansi ...

Inaudible.] ... are giving us comfort that our country’s food security is secured.



Obakeng, a livestock farmer in the North West; Kabelo, the cucumber farmer from Limpopo; Jean Lekganya, a former general who is a macadamia farmer in Limpopo; Hlobisile Yende, in Gauteng and Ipelegeng Kgwadi Sebone in the North West assuring us that constructive courageous action and revolutionary

prowess of our youth to fight new challenges of today are still present. The youth co-operative of young people in Marapyane where their co-operatives name is Marapyane Bakgatla has not only shown farming as a business, but that through farming we can create employment in rural communities. It is these small beginnings that give us hope that today’s youth are making the future that we see possible today.



This Budget Vote also happens when parts of the world are experiencing serious economic issues some related to the ongoing conflict in Europe and others following COVID-19 events, as well as in our country, the energy crisis. These crisis point to the interdependence and interconnectedness of the global food system. Any disturbance of the system is likely to cause and foretold imbalance in the system. It is therefore, important that as policy-makers and legislators here, we create an enabling environment that create resilience in our food system as a country, as well as the continent.



During this month of June, South Africa has been a beehive of activities costing several global partners to advance research for development in the agricultural sector. It is in this month that South Africa hosted international events, co- hosting the federation Forum for Agricultural Research in

Africa known as Fara. The 8th agricultural business and science week in Durban. At the apex of discussions with the facilitation, co-ordination and advancement of agricultural research and innovation on the African continent which is more important, particularly now as we have to deal with issues of climate change and adaptation.



The International Seed Federation hosting the World Seed Congress which was held here in Cape Town. The Congress discussed a variety of issues relating to seeds. Noting the significant of seeds towards transformation of our agri-food systems, as well as to bring them to become more efficient, inclusive and resilient. Poultry association posting the Agricultural Viability Index, AVI, Africa poultry industry in Johannesburg which was the biggest poultry conference and exhibition in Africa. Again, these events show case the latest in products technologies and services aimed at enhancing business and maximising the profits of commercial poultry agricultural enterprises.



Chairperson, allow me to reflect on the commitments we made last year in our Budget Vote. We indicated that through the input vouchers from the Presidential Stimulus Initiative known as PES, the department will support subsistence farmers. I

must indicate that to date, 157 000 subsistence farmers in terms of our budget allocation last year they were supported. Through the comprehensive agricultural support and llima/Letsema, which are conditional grants to the provinces, the department has in the past financial year supported

15 853, as well as 25 781 farmers respectively. An example in Gauteng, to red meat, mobile abattoirs were supplied to two enterprises in ... [Inaudible.] ... Sizalo Bonsmara and Kaalfontein Eve’s Eden Farm for slaughtering to ensure compliance with the Meat Safety Act.


In the Free State, mmePonyane was assisted with R3,5 million for a vegetable and cut flower businesses and she has created

10 women employment positions. Through the land development support 83 farmers on proactive land acquisition farms were also supported. Mr Frank Monage, a farmer in Limpopo specialising in sunflower production was supported to 250 hectares of sunflower and he has expanded his operations since then to 371 hectares. The Planet Finance facility which we are partnering with together with the Industrial Development Corporation, IDC, has approved training transaction creating 845 jobs 30% being women-owned businesses and 10% being youth. The Planet Finance facility with Land Bank has approved 35

transactions with thus far creating 588 job, 33% of these being women-owned enterprises and 27% being young people.



We are able to set up two demonstration facilities as we indicated last year for ham production. One in Rustenburg in the North West and the other in Roodeplaat in Gauteng. This is one lessor than we had committed in the previous budget. We are also able to issue about 397 ham permits to those who have been successful. Market opportunities for small farmers continued should be opened at local level supported by the department and through partnership with stakeholders such as the Department of Small Business. The task team on biosecurity which tabled its report with recommendations and valuable insights into how we can improve our animal health system as a country has actually enabled us to look at strengthening our provincial and national environment in terms of veterinary services and animal health in general. However, at the same time it has given us enough room to be able to engage with Treasury on how we can implement some of those recommendations.



Hon members, this year we are tabling Budget Vote 29 which we hope you will support, whose overall allocation is

R17 254 348 billion which actually includes transfers to the

provincial Departments of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development as per the Division of Revenue Act, as well as to our entities. This allocation for this year, will enable us to implement programmes that continue to address food security needs of our communities and our country, address land hunger, transforms spatial planning and contributes towards the development of our rural areas in partnership with other spheres of government. Chairperson, I must say that this year we want to make a case for investment in communal areas following an analysis that we have concluded as a department in partnership within Agricultural Marketing Council and the notifiable medical conditions, NMC.



Chairperson, through this analysis if we restore 10% at least of the land that is in communal areas by putting it back into production about R59 billion over and above the business as usual baseline if everything remains the same it is possible. This could unlock approximately 500 000 job opportunities in agriculture and related industry. It is our hope that the work that we will be doing in this regard with provinces will indeed change the face of our rural communities. I must say, Chairperson, that one of the issues that you are aware had been raised by our traditional leaders with regards to special planning. We have finally agreed with the National House,

working with the traditional leaders, to really engage them on the land use planning of their areas so that we can come out with clear data of how these lands are and how they can be put into production.



We are working with our spatial planning units and using the relevant technology such as drones to make sure that indeed we can assist the process of land use planning in our communal areas going forward. With regards to livestock development, livestock production remains the major contributor to our GDP and with over 50% contribution to our economy it is also a major contributor to the 888 jobs that we have in our sector as it was reported by statistic SA. However, for any of our herds to be in good shape the issue of animal health as well as availability of vaccine is possible. Chairperson, we have deliberated on this matter and how we need to strengthen the Onderstepoort Biological Products, OBP.



However, we have gone beyond that not only looking at strengthening the OBP but also how to work with other relevant bodies in our country in order for us to be able to produce at scale the vaccines that we are needing. I must say that our register has done sterling work to make sure that we fast-

track registration where necessary. Again, with regards to the cannabis masterplan ...




... umthunzi wezinkukhu ...





... this week, government business, labour and civil, society and communal farmers and their traditional leaders we are meeting in Pretoria on an Operation Phakisa lab where we want to resolve some of those critical areas that are affecting the development of this industry. Our view is that it is important that we must ensure that the legacy farmers who have raised their children ...




 ... ngokuthengisa intsangu ukuze bakwazi ukuya esikoleni mabangabi sekugcineni kweladi kodwa masibaqhakambise ukuthi baye phambili ngoba ngabo ngempela uma sikhuluma manje ezinye zezitshalo zalo mthunzi wezinkukhu bazazi ukudlula thina esaba wosaseyensi saya nasezikoleni.




When it comes to issues of market access, we will continue to engage our trading partners so that we can improve the capability of our farmers to be able to trade their goods in many markets. This month we are hosting the Saudi Arabia and the United Kingdom veterinary authorities to assess our compliance for red meat exports to their countries. Yesterday in the national day of the Philippines government they actually indicated to us that, yes, they have enjoyed our citrus now they want to look forward to us concluding agreements on table grapes, as well at other stone fruits. We continue to host such initiatives in order to make sure that we have the capability that can enable our farmers to take advantage of our markets.



Chairperson, the issue of energy is a challenge for the agricultural sector. It is for this reason that we have decided to form the agro-energy fund where we are going to support our farmers to look at alternative technologies in terms of energy production so that they can support their enterprises. Large scale farmers will receive about 30% grant funding to be matched with 70% loan portion. A medium scale farmer will receive 50% grant and 50% position while the smallholder will be supported by grant portion of 70%. It is

our view, Chairperson, that this intervention will go some way in assisting us to resolve the challenges that we face ...



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: ... as you conclude, hon Minister






DEVELOPMENT: ... the overall government is looking at what it can do in order to ensure energy availability not only for our citizens but also our businesses. I would like to thank my Deputy Ministers, Deputy Ministers Skwatsa and Capa; senior officials that are here but most importantly, my chairperson of the portfolio committee, as well as the members of the committee who have always kept us on our toes in the work that we have to do. I thank you, Chairperson.



Ms T C MODISE: Chairperson of the NCOP and let me greet my Minister, Deputy Minister Skwatsha, Deputy Minister Caba and my colleagues and all Members of Executive Council, MECs, that are present, including my MEC from my province, hon Mohono I notice in the platform and ladies and gentlemen. It is well established that the political economy of South Africa was built on mining, energy, and agriculture. Today, agriculture

in South Africa plays a crucial role in the developing of a domestic economy and create food security for our country.



The ANC at its 55th conference, resolved that:




Providing access to land with the aim of unlocking farming and agroprocessing, opportunity and employment in a rural area and transforming apartheid spatial geographic in urban centres is a crucial part of our transformation in our country.


Hon Chairperson, the annual performance plan and budget allocation for the Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development in financial years demonstrated a department that is a gear towards achieving these objectives.



The industry makes an important a bit small but substantive contribution of sum of 2,47% of gross domestic product, GDP. This sector contributes some R37,1 billion to the economy and employs some of 860 000 people. This was a 2,7% increase in the previous year and 17,3% increase in the past 10 years.



Hon Chairperson, agriculture also plays an important role in terms of the export market and contributed around 11% to South

African total export earnings at the value of twelve point zero billion euro. This is a 2% increase from the decades ago, which indicates the growth in the sector.


With the post COVID-19 environment, more progress in the further development of the sector is possible. The main exports are fruit, wine, and fruit juice.



It is further important to note during the Budget Policy Vote debate that the agricultural sector has continued to be one of the few sectors of South African economy that experience a few sectors of South African economy that has experienced continued expansion over the past two years. Fourteen-point, nine percent in 2020 and 8,8 in 2021.



The important evidence indicates that the department has made progress in developing the sector and the sector has been growing. Further progress along the path of growing is critical in this financial year.


Hon Chairperson, it is quite clear that during the financial year further progress needs to be recorded in the context of land reform in the country and rural development. This will ensure greater food security and availability to increase

exports, which will positively contribute to the countries balance of payments.



The expansion of the agricultural sector will enable further rural industrialization through the development of the value chain to ensure the agroprocessing of different products. In these contexts, access to the markets is crucial.



Hon Chairperson, the department has been appropriated at R17,25 billion for 2023-2024 financial year for its sixth critical programmes and to fund its entity which report to it, as well as the conditional grants that are sent to the province.


The department’s budget and programmes deal with the national competency and the concurrent functions which are dealt with by the province and therefore appropriately, 54% and which R9,3 billion of the total vote of the budget appropriation that goes to transfer and subsidiaries which include transfer to some of the departmental entities land reform grant and transfer to the provinces as a conditional grant.



Hon Chairperson, the administration budget is the same 17% of the budget, which means that the 83% of the budget is intended

to the implementation of the programme by the national and provincial departments and at the funding functioning of the crucial entities.


Concerns must be expressed for the implementation of biosecurity program in Program 2. Given a small budget of R47 million.



Over the past 18 months we have been the outbreak of the disease such as food mouth and flu, which has a negative impact on the cattle and poultry industry. The development of the Poultry Master Plan has had a positive impact on the growth of the industry as it is also contributed to the export of agricultural products from the country.



The department will need to ensure that the select committee is able to deal with this disease which is negatively impacting on the livestock sector.



To ensure that South Africa is a country of choice for importing of the poultry and other livestock. Operation Sefako started in April in Limpopo and continued. The foot and mouth disease are still to be rolled out to all provinces.

It is an important process to protect our ... and develop livestock in our country and therefore the programme needs to be rolled out to the other provinces.


Hon Chairperson, it is also important that the department discussed this issue with the National Treasury to increase funding for these programmes, giving the value of the livestock programme to the agricultural sector and food security in the country.



The prevention of the outbreaks such as diseases, also ensures that the country develops a positive international profile for the export of livestock such as poultry.


Therefore, it is important that the department is able to implement the programme of delineated three provinces, namely KwaZulu-Natal, Mpumalanga and Gauteng, with the grazing protection agricultural areas.



While the opposition believed that it should be running around Washington to save the African Growth and Opportunity Act, AGOA, agreement with these United State of America, USA. In fact, it is the executive of the ANC-led government which will ultimately have to deal with these issues and ensure its

resolution as it is not a provincial matter or the municipality for the City of Cape Town.



Hon members, it is imperative that the diversity of our countries export market for agricultural products and not be dependent on a single market for export. The African Free Trade Agreement and our Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa, BRICS, partners, and friends in the Middle East provides the opportunity to the country.



It is important that the department works with the National Treasury for the increased increase in domestic product production of fertilisers and include the revival of Pox Quarry, which has a state-owned enterprise, which was engaged in the production of fertiliser fertilisers.


The countries need to reduce its dependent on imported fertilisers in favour of domestic products in the high price of fertilisers. Due to the conflict between Russia and its neighbourhood Ukraine will have a negative impact on the price of food as this will drive a price up and increase the cost of living.

Hon Chairperson, it is important that the department is able to implement its programme and ensure that the land reform needs the successful black small and medium scale farmers who are empowered to contribute for food security in the country and enable job security in our rural sector.



The select committee looks forward to engaging the department on the implementation of its annual performance plan in relation to the budget appropriated.



It is important that the people in our communities in all the provinces feel the impact of the programmes of the department. These programmes must ensure the improvement of their lives.

As the ANC said in their manifesto that: “We will improve the lives of everybody, no matter black or white, in our country”. To these hon Chairperson, the ANC supports the Budget Vote Number 29 of the Department of Agriculture, Rural Development and Land Affairs. Thank you very much, Chairperson. Two minutes for the Deputy Minister.


Ms C VISSER: Hon Chairperson, administer the role of the of the Departments Agricultural, Land Reform and Rural Development in South Africa is central to fostering economic growth, reducing poverty, and improving food security,

including the development of agricultural value change, providing agricultural inputs and monitoring production and consumption in the agricultural sector, as well as facilitating comprehensive rural development.



The challenges facing rural development in South Africa include an unsustainable use of natural resources inadequate access to social, economic, and cultural infrastructure and services failure to address load shedding and the effect on agriculture. The failure to build a capable, ethical, and developmental state as food producers on all levels experienced a collapsed destructive destruction state.




Minister, in retrospek het begrotings sedert 2019 tot nou nie die uitdagings van alle sektore in die landboubedryf aangespreek nie. Dit blyk dat die departement nie die dinamika van boerdery verstaan nie, soos wat dit deur die DA vandag aan u voorgehou sal word.



Vervoer bly ’n noodsaaklike kommoditeit vir alle sektore in landbou. Spoorvervoer in Suid-Afrika bestaan nie meer nie. Alle graan word nou deur padvervoer hanteer. Padinfrastruktuur het in die meeste provinsies ineengestort, soveel so dat

padvervoer bepaalde risiko’s vir alle landbou bedrywe inhou. Boere moet nou die koste dra om paaie instand te hou terwyl provinsiale departemente misluk om gewone instandhouding te doen, en bedrog en korrupsie in die departemente van paaie hoogty vier. Die vraag is, hoekom word boere nie vir hul kostes om paaie instand te hou en te herbou vergoed nie? Daar word jaarliks begrotings uit belasting gelde aan provinsies toegestaan en deur mislukte padprojekte deur onbevoegde kontrakteurs met bedrog en korrupsie vermors.



In Kagisano-Molopo word 70% van Suid-Afrika se aartappelmoere geplant. Trokke wat die aartappelmoere vervoer kan nie by die plase uitkom nie. Die trokke se bladvere breek, want in

20 jaar is geen paaie geskraap of instand gehou nie. Boere maak planne om te oorleef sodat werksgeleenthede behoue bly en voedselproduksie bemark kan word. Hulle onkostes om provinsiale paaie instand te hou moet van inkomstebelasting aftrekbaar wees.




The livestock sector still represents 50% of the total value of agricultural production in terms of turnover, the 2014, R500 million funds given to Onderstepoort Biological Products to build a new vaccine plant compliant with national and

internal regulatory requirements because Parliament realized the precarious situation South Africa would be in should we lose our capacity to produce vaccines for livestock.


What happened to the money? One hundred million rand was used to upgrade officers, install a private toilet for the Chief Executive Officer, CEO, and build a new canteen and vastly inflated salaries have been paid for a labour force lacking many of the required competency skills to produce the much- needed vaccines.



Again, ANC political infightings paralysed this facility too. Their actions created the biggest disaster ever in the livestock and equine industry in South Africa. The forensic investigations were dropped.



The Onderstepoort Biological Product, OBP, needs transparency in the investigation of alleged criminal activity and incompetence. The OBP urgently needs proper professional management to deliver on their mandates. Accountability must be enforced, as is consequent management.



Gratefully, the Animal Biosecurity Report completed in May 2022 was released recently by the Minister after persistent

lobbying amid the havoc or vaccine unavailability creating a disaster in the livestock sector. The report confirms the serious failings of the broken bio security systems in South Africa. Problems identified are far reaching, including institutional design, budgetary constraints, and production constraints at Onderstepoort Biological Products Limited.



These findings validate the concerns repeatedly raised by livestock and equine industries. The impact of this failure imposes a risk on food security and the quality of herd immunity in the livestock and between industries.



The Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development must prioritise this matter and the management of OBP responsible for manufacturing of vaccines and the officials of Departments Agricultural, Land Reform and Rural Development responsible for biosecurity management must be held accountable according to failures with the recommendations of the said report.




Ons opregte respek vir die grond en sy oes is die nalatenskap van generasies van boere wat kos op ons tafels sit met wetenskaplike presisie en ’n kragtige werksetiek. Suid-

Afrikaanse boere verdien lof, nie veroordeling nie; en hul doeltreffendheid moet rede tot dankbaarheid wees, nie iets waarvoor hulle gepenaliseer word nie. Beskerm ons boere en so beskerm ons, ons voedselsekuriteit.





DEVELOPMENT (Ms R N Capa): Hon Chairperson and Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister ...[Interjections.] ... Thank you.




Zinqabile ezinto ngapha kuthi.




Hon Minister Didiza and other Ministers in attendance, Deputy Minister Skwatsha and other Deputy Ministers, MECs in attendance, hon chairperson of the select committee, Mme Modise and special delegates, South African Local Government Association, Salga, representatives, board members of the state-owned entities, senior officials of our department, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, it is indeed an honour for me to address you today as we table Budget Vote No

29 of the Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development.

Chairperson and hon members, this Budget Vote is indeed being debated at a time when our country is experiencing an unprecedented energy crisis that is having a destabilising effect on all of our communities across the country. This Budget Vote comes at a time when our country is experiencing an unprecedented energy crisis that is also having a destabilising effect on all of our communities across the country.



Our rural communities, still recovering from the effects of covid-19, and now the problem of the power crisis added to the hardships that are already affecting our communities out there. We also have to remember that while it is a bad problem with electricity, some in the country we live in have never had electricity. We also wish that we will recover quickly from this other crisis. Indeed, our government is working hard to address all of these challenges that we face. We as a government are working with all sectors of government, local government, and our traditional authorities in their traditional councils. We also believe and implement what our President has said: “No one must be left behind.”



This is a big problem, and indeed all countries are busy finding solutions to survive this climate change. We all need

to join hands and take preventive action instead of reacting after the disaster has already happened. In early February and March, heavy rains flooded the country. Mpumalanga and

Kwazulu-Natal were badly affected. Crops and infrastructure were damaged, and farmers suffered the loss of small livestock through drowning; the environment was also badly affected.

They have now applied for support amounting to R3,7 million to try to get back on their feet. In this context, Mpumalanga will receive R297 million and Kwazulu-Natal has requested R10 million. Just to account for that, this R10 million was because it had to do with the previous disasters, which were the worst in our time. So, it is not that...




... bafumene imali encinci maqabane, yilento yokuba noko bona bebekhe bafumane, ngoko ke bongeza entweni.




The department is also implementing programmes to address the impact of climate change on agriculture in compliance with national and sectoral legislation. Of course, we do things by law, we follow policies and we follow due process. The very difficulties that our communities are experiencing lead to poverty, hunger and starvation. But it is always known,

particularly of late, and I am very much happy that if all the countries today talk very much of rural communities, gone are the days when they were very much marginalized. I have seen that at every other conference that the Minister referred to, whether it’s a summit, a workshop, the issue of rural women, rural youth as well as land in rural areas in the hands of our traditional leaders is a priority. I am happy to announce that, as I continue with my debate and presentation.



Chairperson, our strategy on rural development has been approved by the Minister after consultation with all sector departments as well as communities out there in their various organisations as well as our very important structure which is Salga in this country, a partner and agency that continues to support our councillors, our mayors, and our communities in such areas. That will help us to follow due process when we implement this strategy.



Chairperson, I must also include that this strategy is also linked with the South African Police Service, SAPS, to deal with crime in rural areas and by so doing it brings all the hands, that of traditional leaders in traditional communities, that of the police departments and social development, to ensure that those who are affected are also supported to

continue to defend in courts of law as well as being so much cared for that they can recover and their dignity being brought back.


Rural infrastructure development is a very important key aspect in taking care of rural communities. Therefore, investments in infrastructure play a critical role in supporting rural communities in several ways. They can help create jobs during the construction phase, stimulate economic growth, and improve quality of life. The department has completed 440 infrastructure projects at a cost of more than R1,7 billion. We say this because we do not want to continue to defend ourselves, we want to put the truth on the table and speak power, and that is power. I have to speak the truth before you, Chairperson, to say that this is an amount that we have spent during the financial years, not necessarily what we are going to do. When we table this report, with all due respect to the power, we want to say that we have done this with what has been allocated, and further say that this is what we are going to do with what has been approved and allocated to the department.



Through the programme, the department will also provide eleven farming access roads, nine village access roads and eight

production units for farmers so that what people harvest arrives at the market and packing houses is still fresh and green and therefore attractive to our people and also healthy. Because we have to pay attention not only to the availability of our food but also to its quality.



The department has provided R21 million as part of its partnership with the Development Bank of South Africa to construct the Dikidikini bridge and access roads in Ntabankulu Local Municipality in Alfred Nzo District Municipality. We raised this matter because this budget was not earlier on allocated, but at a later stage when it was seen that those communities...




... bafakwa emiphandeni baweliswe umlambo ogqumayo.





The department and indeed all the department’s sub-branches were able to come up with a clear plan so that our people can no longer be in that situation. Therefore, as part of the District Development Model, as part of bringing others as partners, we can go ahead with an amount of R31 million because there will be a contribution by the Ntabankulu Local

Municipality, a contribution by the Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development, DALRRD, as well as the actual local municipalities, through its Infrastructure Development Fund. So, we look forward to meeting ...





... abantu base Ntabankulu ...





... when everything is being handed over with work to be done. In Limpopo, both Komape and Moledi pedestrian bridges are expected to be completed by the end of September 2023. We will meet you there when we hand it over.



Chairperson, we need to make sure that our people in rural areas are not left behind as the world advances in information and communication technology, the department is working with the Department of Transport and South African National Roads Agency SOC Ltd, Sanral, with Sanral Vala Zonke potholes, the project will never die because these potholes continue to exist in various places in our provinces. Therefore, as a department, we will collaborate with transport to deal with Operation Vala Zonke.

We are also having a very keen interest in working with Sanral. Sanral has adopted a very important strategy of ensuring coming up with big catalytic projects. You know, in South Africa, we will have the highest bridge in Africa, the one that runs in Mtentu, which is a catalyst in that area because other roads will be moving from inland towards...

Maybe you will see big buses now running over those highest bridges, but people must not demand to have this bridge. For you to do that, you need to have cliffs...




 ... amawa kuqala. Awukwazi ukufaka ibrorho eliphakamileyo endaweni engenawo amawa. Ndiyabulela kakhulu Sihlalo weNdlu, enkosi kakhulu ngokundimamela.




USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk W Ngwenya): Ngaphambi kokuthi aqhubeke uMama, ngizocela nibheke ngoba kunamawashi la anitshelayo ukuthi nikhuluma isikhathi esingakanani. Mama u-Bebee unalo? Awunalo? Uzosizwa yimi nawe. Ngiyabonga. Ungaqhuba, ntombo.





Nk L C BEBEE: Angikubingelele Sihlalo weNdlu ophethe lo mcimbi wanamhlanje, ngibingelele uSihlalo we-NCOP uBaba uMasondo

neSekela lakhe uMama u-Lucas, ngibingelele uNgqongqoshe womnyango uMama uDidiza namaSekela akhe womabili uBaba u- Skwatsha kanye noMama u-Capa, ngibingelele nezithunywa eziqhamuka ezifundazweni ezehlukene kodwa ngokukhethekile izithunywa eziqhamuka KwaZulu-Natal zonke, ngibingelele futhi nama-MECs ezifundazwe zonke, ngokukhethekile u-MEC wami waKwaZulu-Natal uMhlonishwa u-Super Zuma, nani ke bozakwethu ngiyanibingelela namhlanje. Ngiyabonga Sihlalo ngokunginikeza leli thuba lokuthi ngibe yingxenye yale nkulumo-mpikiswano yanamhlanje.



The COVID-19 pandemic and the conflict between Russia and its neighbour Ukraine have taught the country many important lessons which include amongst others ensuring domestic food production and food security. In other words, reducing the dependence of the country on imported agricultural products in favour of creating domestic self-sufficiency and food security in the country. This makes the implementation of land reform for the creation of small-and-medium black farmers even more important within that context. Rural development is a critical component of the Economic Recovery and Reconstruction Plan.

The implementation of the Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan means the expansion of the agricultural sector and the inclusion of the majority of the people in this sector.

This is critical as it is part of the struggle to defeat the challenges of poverty, inequality, unemployment and historic economic exclusion. The Economic Reconstruction and Recovery plan seeks to ensure not only food security through the development of small-and-medium scale farming but also localisation, beneficiation and rural industrialisation for further progress and transformation to occur in the agricultural sector and for land reform to successfully ensure further food security for the country rural development is crucial.



Rural development requires important infrastructure development to occur upon which agricultural success is dependent such as bridges, road and rail infrastructure, electricity and water. In this regard, the implementation of Programme 3 of the department on food security, land reform and restitution and Programme 4 on rural development is crucial. Programme 3 on food security, land reform and restitution constitutes more than 50% of the budget and is appropriated at R9,425 billion which is a reflection of the seriousness that the ANC-led government places on this programme which is geared to the transformation of the sector and the correction of the historical injustices of the apartheid past through land restitution. The budget allocated

for Programme 4 on rural development is R957 million. This budget is a reflection of rural development which is part of the mandate of the Department of Agriculture as other components of rural development such as road infrastructure and bridge development will occur through the Department of Transport and the Department of Public Works.



Land Reform is a critical process to ensure the correction of the historical injustice of the apartheid colonial past. There are two types of land reform necessary for the correction of apartheid historical injustices, namely, land restitution to communities that were forcefully removed from their areas during the apartheid era and land redistribution to ensure that the majority of the people can rightfully take up their place in the agricultural sector which was denied to them through historical economic exclusion.




Yilo Hulumeni kaKhongolose owenze ukuthi laba oNgqongqoshe esinabo namhlanje, uNgqongqoshe uDidiza namaSekela akhe uBaba u-Skwatsha noMama u-Capa obabona begijima emaqeleni befuna ukuqinisekisa ukuthi umuntu omnyama uthola isithunzi nokuhlonishwa ngokuthi abuyelwe umhlaba wakhe bakwethu,

bawubuke nje umhlaba wabo khona bezokwazi ukuthi nabo banone njengabo ontaba kayikhonjwa bagcine benonile ngokunjalo.



Ngakho sithi asibonge nje kulo mnyango ngempela ngendlela owenza ngayo. Sibonge futhi ukuthi uma ufika kuleso zifundazwe kugijima nalawo ma-MECs abaphethe yona leyo minyango. Ubabone bemthuqasi befake amadadla, uxakwe ukuthi ngabe u-MEC, ngabe uNgqongqoshe lo. Hhayi! Ukuthi basebenzela abantu bakithi.

Ngakhoke ngokunjalo siyacela nje kubo bonke Nkosi yami abagweve ... nina abamhlophe nemihlaba, cha sinikeni bakwethu ngoba ngowethu nje, okufanele siwusebenzise ngempela nje hhayi indaba yokudlala. Sigijima nalo siwuKhongolose lolu daba lomhlaba.




The Select Committee Report indicates that land redistribution and tenure reform since 1994 to date ...




... sengiyayihumusha manje khona nizoyizwa kahle ...






 ... the department stated that 5,2 million hectares of land have been redistributed. In the last financial year, the

government distributed 120 land parcels measuring 25 549 hectares in extent for land restitution, and 204 land parcels measuring 28 845 hectares in extent. This certainly reflects significant progress, but much more needs to be done in this financial year. The success of land reform for the development of the agricultural sector and to ensure rural development can only occur if it is accompanied by the concomitant infrastructure necessary for the success of black small-and- medium scale farming.



Infrastructure development in terms of bridges, roads and rail is crucial to ensure that rural communities have access to supplies and markets for agricultural products. In this financial year, 48 bridges are being built ...




... aphi amanga ethu bakithi singuKhongolose? Nakhu senza.






 ... of which 24 were already developed in the past year, especially in flood-the affected areas like KwaZulu-Natal and the Eastern Cape. During this financial year, 96 bridges are planned for construction in rural areas in all provinces. The SA National Road Agency, Sanral, is developing important road

corridor projects such as the road between Durban and East London which will reduce travel time by three hours. For heavy-duty trucks, the Passenger Rail Agency of South Africa, Prasa, and Transnet are starting to open up rail corridors and these need to serve the movement of freight and passengers, especially in rural areas as well.





Yilo Hulumeni kaKhongolose obonile ukuthi akenze yonke lento oHulumeni bakuqala abangazange bakubone ukuthi kuyoke kube khona lento okuthiwa ama-corridors ukuze abantu bakwazi izinto zabo abazitshalile bakwazi phela ukuthi bahambe amabanga amancane ukuze bakazi ukuzidayisa




Water is a critical input into the agricultural sector for production and the country is a water-scarce country. The department is working in collaboration with the Department of Water and Sanitation in the administration of water in the country. It is important that the department is able to work with the Department of Water to enable the agricultural sector to have an adequate water supply for the development of the sector to occur. This requires co-ordination with the

Department of Water and Sanitation so that agricultural development and water supply occur in tandem.



The dam infrastructure projects will play an important role in the water supply to rural areas in the future. Farming has largely been mechanised in the country and electricity supply to the farming sector is a critical input for the success of the sector. The agricultural sector has been affected by load shedding and this negatively impacts production thereby placing upward pressure on the price of agricultural produce. It is important that the Task Team that has been established by the Minister of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development deal with load shedding issues affecting the agricultural sector and is able to find the necessary solutions including the development of renewable energy in the rural areas to alleviate this problem.



The task team should also explore off-grid solutions for the supply of electricity to rural communities. South Africa has important advantages in terms of solar and wind power which must be utilised for the benefit of rural communities. Eskom should be engaged by the task team to stabilise and resolve energy supply challenges for the sector. Solutions must be found and will be found to these challenges. These are

temporary challenges but require resolution for the development of small-and-medium farming.



Small-scale farming is a critical part of inclusive economic development and transformation. This farming sector requires support to ensure its success and today’s successful farmers have traditionally been supported by the Government and its financial institutions. It is imperative that the Department is able to assist those beneficiaries of land reform to develop different types of livestock farming and fruit and vegetable farming as this is important in terms of meeting local and export market demand.


The people need to access the training opportunities which the department is providing.





Hhayi ke lapho ngiwufakazi. Zonke izifundazwe ...





... corner–to-corner ...





 ... bayaqinisekisa ukuthi lo Mnyango Wezolimo ukuthi bayabaqeqesha abalimi bethu ikakhulukazi abantu besifazane nentsh yakhona. Ngijabula kabi uma ngibona uNgqongqoshe wami uDidiza enikeza izinsiza zokulima eMpumalanga kule mifelandawonye, simbone futhi niye nasezindaweni zamakhosi nisebenze nawo, into engakaze yenzeke emadala judeni bakwethu kulabo Hulumeni abedlule kodwa lo Hulumeni esikuwona ngiyakubalula lokho, ukwazile ukufikelela ezansi ebantwini ukuze zonke izinto zenzeke ngendlela ekuyiyo.




The APPs and programmes of the Department of Agriculture indicate that the ANC-led government has a programme for the transformation of the agrarian sector through land reform and is implementing it. This is to improve the quality of the lives of the people. It is important that the department is able to ensure impactful spending on the programmes and there is value for money. The select committee through enhanced oversight will ensure that the department reports on the implementation of its programmes and Annual Performance Plans in relation to its budgets.




Sihlalo wami, kukho konke Baba nawe Mama, izinto zihamba kahle. Ukhongolose umgomo weVoti leSabelomali 29 lomnyango. Siyabonga.




Mr M J MAGWALA: Hon House Chairperson...






...siyanibulisa nonke apha kule Ndlu.




Chairperson, the land reform programme has since 1994 been characterized by policy incoherence, political zigzag and administrative paralysis. The ruling ANC has never had any real intention to address the land question in this country. There is currently exists widespread agreement that land reform in South Africa has dismally failed and continue to fail to deliver changes. Many hoped it would. Racially-based dislocation and dispossession were central features of colonial conquest and apartheid grand plan and will remain the key features of this failure to this very day.



Chairperson, we are still sitting with unused land, which the department does not know what to do with it. To date, the

department has not resolved the land claims launched by the December 1998 deadline. They have spent over R4,5 billion buying land from white farmers and giving people money instead of land. Most recently to, the department has indicated that it needs R68 billion to settle the remaining 6000 land claims launched in 1998. I hope...





...uyandiva, mam’uNgwenya?





The department still has no plans for small scale farmers who are upcoming these small farmers need funding skills development training in order for them to be fully operational to compete in the white dominant industry. We cannot support a budget which is still behind with the land claims this department has not produced any belief plans to fast track the land claims. How can you support a budget where it speaks it speaks about taking three percent from white farmers to fund black upcoming businesses. This tells you straight that this department has no tangible plans for our black poor people.




Ukhongolose akasebenzi mam’uBebee.



The department has further failed to provide much needed support to land claimants who have had their claims settled, even if those ones you have gained you have passed the land claims but still you are not supporting those people.




Ukubonakalisa ukuba ukhongolose akasebenzi.





The merger of the former Department of Agriculture and the former Department of Rural Development and Land Reform was expected to improve and strengthen the delivery of services to farmers and land reform benefitting beneficial. However, nothing has changed. The opposite seems to be true as the match of the two departments and a reconfiguration of the new structure does not seem to have taken into account the complexity of some of the programmes that have not been combined into one failed state.



House Chair, the amount of money spent by the department must force the ruling party to rethink its position to expropriate without compensation as articulated by the EFF. In reality, the budget allocation to this department is not enough in

light of the sectoral importance and challenges it faces. One of the reasons why we are rejecting is because...




...imali incinci yeli sebe.





In reality the budget allocation, in 2018 the EFF tabled a Motion for the amendment of section 25 of the Constitution within the emphasis for the abolishment of private ownership of land and the transfer of the land as a whole to the people and the state to hold this land in custody on behalf of the people as a whole.



The noble mission was hostile and frustrated by the ANC with the collaboration of its right wing alliance led by the DA Moonshot Western lobby groups. We are of a firm view that there is only one way out of this conundrum and policy paralysis, and that is to expropriate all South African land without compensation for equal redistribution. That is the only solution. It is the only way we can significantly alter the acrimonious class structure and power relationship of rural communities.

We therefore cannot support the budget which does not speak to land that still needs to be returned. We cannot support a budget speech that does not speak to small-scale farmers. We cannot support a budget which does not think about poor black skills development programmes. Our farmers that are there, Minister, still need to be equipped supported by this department, but there is no clear plans of how this department, whoever its entire duration of the Sixth Administration, will help and improve our upcoming farmers that are so disadvantaged by the white supremacy.



You know, Minister, there are so many upcoming farmers that need this department. They need this budget to speak to them that it must be pro poor. But the only way that you still need more money to go and buy the land that was stolen and was taken by force from our forefathers. Let us go and amend section 25. The EFF rejects this budget with its contestation it deserves. Amandla! Thank you very much Chairperson and hon members.





Mnr W A S AUCAMP: Agb Voorsitter, agb Minister, mede Suid- Afrikaners, sonder die boere van Suid-Afrika sal daar nie kos op die tafels vir Suid-Afrikaners wees om te eet nie. Dit is

’n voldonge feit dat ons boere — wit, swart en bruin, groot of klein, dit maak nie saak nie, ’n integrale deel van ons land se voortbestaan uitmaak. Tog is dit so, agb Minister, dat u ministerie, sowel as hierdie ANC regering, nie die belange van ons land se boere op die hart dra nie.



Hierdie begroting wys weereens daarop dat die regering nie besef dat Suid-Afikaners staatmaak op en afhanklik is van die sukses van ons land se boere nie. Kom ons kyk na ’n paar voorbeelde van hoe hierdie ANC regering ons land se boere in die steek laat, agb Minister.



Eerstens, die ANC se volgehoue pogings om die Grondwet te wysig om voorsiening te maak vir onteiening sonder vergoeding is maar een voorbeeld. Dit skep ongekende onsekerheid vir ons land se boere. Dit is nie nodig om die Grondwet te verander om plek te maak vir grondhervorming nie. Die Grondwet maak reeds voorsiening daarvoor, agb Minister. Die probleem met grondhervorming is dus nie die Grondwet nie. Dit is ook nie die onwilligheid van boere om grondhervorming te maak werk nie. Nee, agb Minister, dit is die korrupsie en swak regering binne hierdie ANC wat in die pad staan van suksesvolle grondhervorming. Agb Minister, dit is nie net ek wat so sê nie. Dit is ook nie net die DA wat so sê nie. Hierdie stelling

is ook deur die hoëvlak-paneel gemaak, onder leiding van die voormalige President Kgalema Motlanthe wie gesê het dat die Grondwet nie die rede vir die mislukking van grondhervorming is nie, maar dat die mislukking van grondhervorming aan swak implementering van beleid, korrupsie en ’n gebrek aan dringendheid deur die regering toegeskryf kan word.



Tweedens, kan u maar gaan kyk hoe u ons opkomende boere in die steek laat. Van die 529 plase wat deur die Proactive Land reform Strategy, Plas, aan boere oorgedra is, het 75% van daardie boere misluk. Die rede daarvoor is omdat die regering nie voldoende hulp en ondersteuning aan hulle gegee het nadat hulle grond ontvang het nie.



Derdens, agb Minister, wil ek u wys op die groot hoeveelheid landboutegniese dienste amptenare in u departement wat nie gekwalifiseerd is om ons boere en veral ons opkomende boere met die tegniese vaardighede en advies wat hulle nodig het by te staan nie. Hoe verwag u dat onervare en ongekwalifiseerde amptenare ons boere met gesonde raad moet voorsien?



’n vierde voorbeeld van hoe die regering ons boere faal is die rasgebaseerde water kwotas wat die regering wil instel. Net verlede week het Adjunkpresident Paul Mashatile in hierdie

Huis van die Parlement gesê dat ons regering alle boere bystaan, ook ons kommersiële boere, maar terselfdetyd poog hierdie regering om rasgebaseerde water kwotas op boere af te dwing wat boere sal verplig om groot hoeveelhede van die aandele in hul boerderybedrywighede aan swart boere oor te dra indien hulle water wil hê om te kan voortgaan om boerdery suksesvol te bedryf. Hierdie is maar net nog ’n manier hoe die regering sy selfgeorkestreerde mislukkings met grondhervorming wil wegsteek en is die DA oortuig daarvan dat hierdie rassekwotas maar net ’n rookskerm en ’n weerligafleier is vir die feit dat die ANC regering nie grondhervorming korrek toegepas het nie.



Agb Minister, ’n vyfde en sekerlik die hartseerste voorbeeld van hierdie regering se onvermoë om ons boere by te staan en om hul belange op die hart te dra kan ons sien wanneer ons na die groot hoeveelhede plaasaanvalle en plaasmoorde wat in Suid-Afrika plaasvind kyk. Vir hoe lank pleit die DA dat ons regering na die veiligheid van ons mense op die plase en in

ons landelike gebiede moet omsien? Vir hoe lank vra die DA dat plaasaanvalle as ’n prioriteitsmisdaad geklassifiseer moet word nie? Vir hoe lank vra die DA dat landelike beveiligingseenhede op die been gebring moet word om ons boere en die mense in landelike gebiede te beskerm nie?

Hierdie versoeke, agb Minister, val ongelukkig die hele tyd op dowe ore en die regering bly valslik sê dat hulle wel vir ons boere se lewens omgee en hulle beskerm. Agb Minister, gaan sê dit vir die families van die 73-jarige Anneke Claassen en haar vriend die 77-jarige Hennie Claassen wie op 3 Junie op die plaas Klipfonteinhoek naby Ohrigstad eers gemartel is en toe lewend aan die brand gesteek is. Gaan sê dat u omgee aan die familie van die 33-jarige Hlompho Phale wie op 27 Mei op ’n plaas buite Sasolburg doodgeskiet is. Gaan sê dit asseblief vir die familie van die 69-jarige André van Biljon wie op

30 Mei op ’n plaas buite Oranjeville doodgeskiet is. Gaan sê dit asseblief vir die familie van Pierre en Belinda de Kock wie op 2 Junie op hul plaas naby Aurora by Piketberg vermoor is. Gaan sê dit ook asseblief vir die familie van Josef Payne wie op 4 Junie op ’n plaas naby Standerton vermoor is. Agb Minister, gaan sê dit ook — en u kan dit wel vir hierdie persoon sê want hy het dit oorleef — aan mnr Andre du Toit wie op 8 Junie op ’n plaas naby Askham geskiet is. Al hierdie plaasaanvalle, agb Minister, het in ’n tydperk van minder as twee weke in ons land plaasgevind, maar steeds sal die regering sê dat hulle ons boere beskerm. Dit, terwyl hierdie begroting nie enige voorsiening maak vir die beskerming van ons boere nie. Wat ’n skande.

Hierdie regering moet sy kop in skaamte laat sak en ophou om die heeltyd net te praat en te praat oor hoe hulle kwansuis ons boere se lewens hoog ag. Die tyd vir praat, agb Minister, is verby. Daarom vereis die DA, saam met die boere van ons land, dat werkbare en praktiese voorstelle wat al verskeie kere deur die DA ter tafel gelê is, dringend geimplementeer moet word sodat ons hartseer statistieke soos die wat ek so pas genoem het, kan vermy.





The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): As you conclude.





Indien die tyd my toegelaat het sou ek kon aangaan en nog vele ander voorbeelde gegee het van hoe hierdie regering, u departement en hierdie begroting ons boere in die steek laat. Ek kan u egter die versekering gee dat ons land se boere nie meer die mislukkings van die ANC sal duld nie. Ons boere — swart, wit of bruin, groot of klein, is moeg vir u leë beloftes. Hulle is moeg daarvoor om deur die regering geminag te word, en u sal dit duidelik sien wanneer ’n DA-geleide koalisie regering die boere van ons land se belange vooropstel en die ANC in 2024 sal verslaan. Ek dank u.

Mr B M ZUMA (KwaZulu-Natal): Hon Chairperson, hon Minister Didiza, Deputy Ministers Skwatsha and Capa, the Chief Whip, hon members, Ministers and Deputy Ministers present, fellow Members of the Executive Council, MECs, from different provinces, ladies and gentlemen. Hon Chairperson, we appreciate the opportunity afforded by this House to reflect on the Minister’s Budget Vote for the Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development.



Firstly, we are unequivocal about our support and appreciation of the policy programmes and the budget delivered on behalf of the sector by the hon Minister Thoko Didiza. Agriculture is an important socio economic driver with immense potential of economic growth and socio economic development in rural communities.



The Budget Vote presented is indeed part of the government's response towards addressing the triple challenges of poverty, unemployment, and inequality. To further address these challenges, government has developed social compacts called Agriculture and Agro Processing Master Plan which will also drive transformation in this sector.

A lot remains to be done to introduce the previously disadvantaged producers to the mainstream economy within the sector. As indicated by the Minister, only 9% of the agricultural output can be ascribed to black producers. This is a reflective of amount of work that still lies ahead for this government and the need for the continuation of the agenda to achieve forms within the sector.



In our province, given our urban and rural dynamics, we have even greater appreciation of the role that agriculture plays and can still play in bringing about economic opportunities for the sustainable livelihood of rural communities. That is why we are grateful for the support that we are receiving from the national department in the form of CASP, Ilima/Letsema, Land Care Programme Conditional Grants.


In her Budget Vote, the Minister indicated that a provision of R2,15 billion has been made to CASP, Ilima/Letsema. We have in the past financial year supported 15 853 and 25 781 farmers respectively. Hon members, we have reviewed our department approach to the farm support and since then we have seen an increase performance on conditional grants.In the previous financial year, the department recorded 100% expenditure in

the utilization of conditional grants in the process dealing decisively with previously chronic underspending.



In the 2023/24 financial year the department will invest R131 million to support 41 projects with on and off farm infrastructure biological assets and production inputs. Hon members we recognize the significant strides that have been made by government and industry to reduce the levels of food

insecurity in the country. Yet, we have noted recent impact of inflation on food prices that has many impoverished families struggling to afford basic food supplies.



Over the past five years, the provincial department has supported 60 806 households with the food security interventions translating to 206 740 people. A further 15 644 households will be supported in the current financial year. As a department we will continue to mobilize our community to utilize available land to grow food through the one home, one garden initiative.


We intend to intensify distribution of seeds bags to over


100 000 households in the current financial year. On agricultural development intervention, the department has set aside an allocation of R376 million of which R204,6 million

will go towards providing comprehensive farmer support and R171,9 million to food security interventions. The department’s food security intervention includes communal investments like boreholes, deep tanks, fencing, etc. amounting to R57,1 million.



On agricultural job opportunities, in the 2023/24 financial year, through implementation of various departmental programmes, the department is planning to create about 3 909 job opportunities. Radical Agrarian Socio-Economic Transformation programme is the main contributor with 1 950 jobs followed by the LandCare programme with 621 jobs and the unemployed graduate programme with 34 jobs and other programmes.



These programmes include amongst others Expanded Works Programme, EPWP, internship programme, leanership programme, and Horticulture and Agronomic Seeds Programme. On the implementation of Agri-Hubs, as the province we have started preparing for the implementation of the programme of establishing Agri-Hubs as the game changer in the agricultural value chains.

These Agri-Hubs include fresh produce hub, dairy hub, grain handling, red meat focusing on beef and another one focusing on red meat focusing on pork and lamb. For this, we have secured the funding commitment of about R153 million over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF. This project is part of the presidential infrastructure programme.



As I draw towards a conclusion, we want to express our appreciation to the Minister for announcing the establishment of Agro-Energy Fund to be housed at length and to assist the sector in dealing with the energy challenges. This is a progressive development and all producers are encouraged to take full advantage of this pronouncement by the government.



As the KwaZulu-Natal province, we were asserted to host the 8th Africa Agribusiness and Science Week from the 5th to the 8th of June 2023 at International Convention Centre, ICC, in Durban, which was a fulfilment of undertaking what the Minister had promised in the budget speech.


We are further looking forward to host the 7th African Conference of Agricultural Economy and 60th Agricultural Economic Association of South Africa Conference on the 18th to the 21st of September this year.

We also welcome the pronouncement regarding the South Africa’s position to strengthening its ability to produce food and mouth disease vaccines which is driven by the Agricultural Research Council, an entity of the state. We think we are going to benefit greatly from this development as the KwaZulu- Natal province. I thank you hon Chairperson.





Mnr M A P DE BRUYN: Agb Voorsitter, die Suid-Afrikaanse landbougemeenskap het oor die jare bewys dat hulle nie net ’n werk verrig nie maar hul passie leef en terselfdertyd gemeenskappe ophef, voedselsekerheid vooropstel en sonder twyfel afhanklikheid vir hul voortbestaan met godsdiens en passie moet beoefen.




Government, however, does not seem to realise the importance of the farming community in South Africa. Over the past few years, we have pleaded with the government to assist, not only for substances for upcoming farmers but also for commercial farmers. Our farmers contributed greatly to the GDP during the so-called COVID period, contributing to job security. In spite of a state of disaster that was declared as a result of

drought, funds were not available or availed to these farmers and they suffered unspoken losses as a result of that.




Ons boere moes ... [Onhoorbaar.]





The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): The interpreter is trying to hear hon De Bruyn. I don't know because he is still left with three minutes. Yes, three minutes and fifty-six seconds. Table Staff, can you please assist me? Hon De Bruyn?




Sizoqhuba ...





Yes, when the time is still ... Can we continue? I don't know what is happening.



IsiZulu: Siyaqhuba ...




Hon members, I would like to recognise hon B P Shiba, MEC Mpumalanga.



Ms B P SHIBA (Mpumalanga): House Chairperson, let me greet you, Ms Ngwenya, hon Chairperson of NCOP, hon Deputy Chairperson, hon members of the NCOP, Minister Thoko Didiza and Deputy Ministers Mr Skwatsha and Ms Capa, hon MECS, my colleagues, hon members on virtual platform, secretary and officials of the NCOP, thank you for the opportunity to participate in this debate as we try to reflect on the policy and Budget Vote for the Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development, presented by the hon Minister not so long ago here, the Budget Vote that we support.



We wish to affirm, like the speakers before me, that the department’s presentation did not only share the necessary feedback to the nation about its previous plans, but also lucidly provided its blueprint path for the current financial year. The Minister’s speech was premised on the fundamental acknowledgement of the promulgation of the Native Land Act of 1913 as the source of irreparable damage to the dignity of the black people in the country. This is a historical fact that took away the dignity, the birth right and the economic and social wellbeing from their land. Indeed, the sizeable chunk

of our work is channelled towards addressing this painful part of our history.



It is pleasing to see that the department has specifically focused on the rural spaces, which were the outcome of the apartheid legacy that has also curtailed the potential for economic growth and self-sustainability among these communities. Their intention to restore about 10% of this land by putting it back into production with a possible spinoff of real GDP by R59 billion as creating approximately 500 000 job opportunities in agriculture and related rural economic activities.


In our province, through the Green Mpumalanga Project which focuses on the rural areas of all districts, we have kick- started the massive investment programme to commercialize historically disadvantaged farmers and boost their economy. Hon Magwala, would you please listen to this one attentively so. In Gert Sibande district, a total of six CPA farms were selected for comprehensive on-farm and off-farm infrastructure development including security fencing, park homes, pack- houses, power supply, water development, irrigation systems, ploughing and planting of fields, production inputs, farmer

training and capacity building, and extension and advisory services.



Under this project, over 200 hectares of land is now under full production and maintained an average of 174 local jobs sourced within the local community. In the same vein, our Grain Corridor at the Nkangala district is comprised mainly of farmers in the communal areas of Dr JS Moroka, and Thembisile Hani local municipalities, are supported with on and off-farm infrastructure and production inputs which have seen over 5 600 hectares of grain fields ploughed and planted with an estimated 57 local jobs maintained.




Angifuni ukungasho Mhlonishwa Sihlalo weNdlu ukuthi bekwenzakalani izolo e-Marapyane e-Dr J S Moroka kodwa ke abacoshi bezindaba bakhona basikhulumele. Singeke sizishayele izandla siyiMpumalanga kodwa izwe liwubonile umsebenzi wethu. Kodwa engingakusho ukuthi ...





 ... similarly, the planned operationalization of the Mpumalanga International Fresh Produce Market requires that a minimum of 5 644 hectares of citrus fruits are put under

production. This will provide an opportunity to expand our fruit basket in Ehlanzeni District by supporting farmers to produce fruits to be processed and marketed at the fresh produce market.



The brief account by the Minister on the farmer development support, including the progress on the blended finance, is a testimony of a department that is committed to change the status of the agricultural sector. We can only assist the department by encouraging the prospective farmers to grab the opportunities availed to enter and expand their participation in the sector.


The Minister also touched the commercialisation of cannabis and hemp whose Bill is at the public participation stage by the National Assembly. The expanded measures include changes to the existing THC limit for hemp to 1% and amendment of schedules 4 and 6 of the Medicines Control Act. However, 397 hemp permits were issued by the department for hemp production to date.



The other critical focus area presented by the Minister is the market access for our farmers. The investment on this area is necessary for sustained growth and industrialisation. The

efforts to improve market access for the country’s products on the international markets are appreciated. The signed protocol of phytosanitary requirements for export of soybean from South Africa to China, and the lifting of a ban on South Africa’s wool and other cloven-hoofed animals’ skin products with China, is testimony for achievement.



In conclusion House Chairperson and hon members, I am sure you will agree with me that the agricultural sector has been the only positive venture during the difficult economic period.

The department’s bold plans must be encouraged and supported.





Siyabonga kakhulu Sekela Mongameli u-Capa ngokuthi uHulumeni uyaphendula kulesi sicelo esasenza abalimi eMpumalanga behlukunyezwa yizimvula ezinamandla ezacekela impahla yabo phansi. Sizibongela kakhulu singuHulumeni waseMpumalanga.





Thank you very much.




Mr N M HADEBE: Hon House Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister and hon members, we are sitting here today in an effort to provide equitable access to land, integrated rural

development, sustainable agriculture as well as food security for citizens throughout our nine provinces. Admittedly, agriculture contributes a small fraction towards the gross domestic product of the country, but it has contributed greatly towards our economy marking itself as one of the major redeeming features of the South Africa’s economic performance.



It is an open secret that in order to ensure the sustainability of this while simultaneously realising agricultural and rural development, the government needs to respond to the call for Agrilogistics and rural infrastructure. In addition to this, the government needs to invest greatly in agricultural and rural infrastructure which support the expansion of production and employment, small scale farming and overall rural development.



As a party we have often brought to light how our rural areas are in dire need of critical infrastructure. This we have argued range from facilities from storage like silos, fresh produce facilities, packing houses, all the ways to transport links to main networks such as safe and developed rural roads, branch train lines and ports as well as the proper funding of funds.

It is against this background that we welcome the budget’s commitment to delivering critical infrastructure including transport and logistics and water and sanitation as these will contribute greatly to the much-needed rural agricultural development.



In our hope for progress, we need to be realistic and acknowledge the spread of the cancer of corruption that runs deeply in this government. This is why it is important that we closely monitor the progress made if any though the provision of this budget as it has become apparent that misappropriation of funds turns to be an accompanier of budgets made available to this government.


Credible statistics have shown that in the year 2021 around 2,1 million people in the country experienced hunger. Food insecurity was listed as a contributing factor to the July 2021 riots in KwaZulu-Natal and some parts of Gauteng. This shows that our people are hungry, and the government need to address this immediately. Although South Africa is technically food secure but hundreds of thousands of households don’t have enough food for their dietary and nutritional needs with statistics reporting that there are more than half a million

homes with ... [Inaudible.] ... five years and below and below experiencing hunger regularly.



Without adequate nutritious food our children are at risk of malnutrition which can lead to a number of health risks such as stunting, physical and cognitive development issues. In return affected children battling to learn and underperform at school which perpetuates the vicious and dehumanising cycle of poverty.



Furthermore, persistent load shedding poses a great threat to food security given the centrality of food security to the wellbeing of our people and the country’s stability as a whole parts of our agricultural sector which are ... [Time expired.]



Ms N PIETERS (Eastern Cape): Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Ministers, hon members of the NCOP, chairperson and members of the select committee, hon MECs, ladies and gentlemen, I greet you all. We gather in this noble House today in the month in which we commemorate the heroic sacrifices of the youth of 1976. This generation stood up against a system that sought to strip them of their dignity by subjecting them to inferior education. Today, we stand tall

and more determine to do all that we can to realise their aspirations in our lifetime.



I stand here to affirm the work of the Department of Agriculture, Land reform and Rural Development in restoring the dignity of our people. The impact of COVID-19 on the South African economy in general and agriculture in particular, can never be overstated. There is consensus amongst expects that it would take our economy about five years to recover from the negative impact of the COVID-19 pandemic.


As if that was not enough, the Ukraine-Russia conflict has further exacerbated the situation of our sector threatening food security as a result of escalating prices of certain production inputs.



Hon Chairperson and hon members, allow me to take this opportunity to extend our warmest gratitude to his Excellency the President of the Republic Mr Cyril Ramaphosa and four other African leaders who went to meet with the leaders of the two countries this past week. We welcome their intervention and work towards the resolution of tis conflict. It is in everybody’s interest that this conflict is ended as soon as possible. As the President said that the conflict is hurting

Africa more and we therefore should spare no time and effort to rally the international community to support the work of our leaders in this regard.


Hon members, the department together with the provincial departments is working hard in ensuring that we increase the contributions of the agricultural sector to the GDP. This can only succeed if all role-players work together in an integrated and co-ordinated manner. I have no doubt that working together we can project agriculture into a game- changer for our economy. If there is anything we can bequeath to our youth it is the future in which no person goes to bed in an empty stomach. Our work should be to ensure that we do not leave anyone behind. we must double our efforts in ensuring food security for all our people. It is our collective responsibility to make poverty history.



Hon Chairperson, we wish to commend the work of the national department to support 157 000 subsistence farmers through the Presidential Economic Stimulus. We need to build on this achievement through partnership with the private sector. In addition to this, the department through the Comprehensive Agricultural Support Programme and the Ilima/Letsema grant we are intending to support in this financial year 22 620

vulnerable households. We are targeting women, youth, person with disabilities and military veterans. As the Eastern Cape province, it is upon tis ethos in supporting the national department as the civil right activists Marian Wright Edelman wrote, and I quote:



We must not, in trying to think about how we can make a big difference, ignore the small daily differences we can make which, over time, add up to big differences that we often cannot foresee.


Hon Chairperson, research remains at the centre of our work to enable effective planning and evidence-based decision-making. Our research focuses on generation and adaptation of technologies to support emerging new entrants commercial farmers and industrialists with specific focus on prioritised commodities and value chains. It is through research use of innovative and adaptative agricultural practices that we can mitigate against the impact of climate change. Subsequently, we have set aside R17,5 million to drive research and technology development. We are mindful that this is not enough and plan to work collaboratively with our four Eastern Cape- based universities and other research institutions in our country. We also intend to tap into the sterling research and

analytical work by the National Agricultural Marketing Council. In order to support grain value chain, the department is implementing the grain partnership model in the grain corridors to commercialise grain production in the small holder and communal production areas. In this financial year the department is supporting a total of 27 774 hectors with a budget of R102 million benefiting 9 045 small holders and subsistence producers. Furthermore, the department is supporting a total of 2 690 hectors of agricultural land for rehabilitation and creation of 360 green jobs. A total budget of R16,8 million has set aside for sustainable land care activities. The rehabilitation of agricultural land is in line with the national department stated goal of putting 10% back into production so as to increase the contribution of the sector to the GDP.



Hon Chairperson, the Eastern Cape province is working together in an integrated way so that we can resolve our country’s challenges amicably. Our premier has mobilised the provincial departments to identify integration areas that will result in improving levels of service delivery in the province. To date

10 integration areas have been identified which include climate change, land reform and commercialisation of agriculture. Ore detailed work is currently being nabbed in

order 10 integration areas. Soon we will be engaging the national department in this important work.



Also, the province is a hub of indigenous cannabis growers, in South Africa given our endowment compared to the other provinces. We are continuously lobbying the national government to remove legislative barriers for entry for indigenous cannabis growers to fully participate in the cannabis industry. We are also lobbying the NCOP to ensure that the enacted legislation rules and regulations are not blocking our people who have been growing cannabis for centuries in Pondoland.


The future of the agricultural sector rests with the youth. To this end, a total of 2 250 farmers and farm workers as well as

120 unemployed graduates will be trained in different agricultural related skills production. A budget of R16,9 million is available. We have also set aside

R10,4 million for the stipends for 120 graduates. Furthermore, the department will embark on training tractor drivers and mechanics in all districts. We are preparing for clopping season.

In conclusion, it is our commitment to fight poverty as guided by the national policy on food and nutrition security that provides a broad framework for the fulfilment of our constitutional imperative of the right to have access to sufficient food and food security. As a country and its people, we refuse to move backwards with challenges we encounter. We are committed to always look ahead until we achieve our destiny. As former President Thabo Mvuyelwa Mbeki once wrote, and I quote:



It is always wise to look ahead but difficult to further than you can see. Progress is really a straight line. there are always bumps on the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead. If you haven’t found it yet keep looking.


As the Eastern Cape we support the budge and the policy for the financial year 2023-24 presented by the Minister. I thank you.



Mr D AMERICA (Western Cape): Hon Chair, thank you for the opportunity that's been provided to me to address this House. I stand before this House today with great confidence representing the DA run Western Cape and our unwavering

commitment in supporting and promoting agriculture and land reform in our beautiful province.



The Western Cape Department of Agriculture’s core mandate is to empower and uplift the agricultural community through a comprehensive range of development, research and support services. As a result, we have witnessed the agricultural sector in the Western Cape as a catalyst for economic growth and a vital source of sustainable job opportunities.



We are fortunate to witness and experienced tangible benefits of the DA run difference in our province. The Western Cape boast a lower unemployment rate compared to other provinces, attracting job seekers from across the country. However, it is disheartening to witness the constant opposition and sabotage sometimes faced by this department from the national government.


While the ANC government defends Russia's interests, we face the repercussions. Fertilizer prices have become more than double, severely impacting the ability of our farmers to produce affordable produce. Furthermore, our most crucial trade agreement African Growth and Opportunity Act, AGOA, hangs in the balance.

During the standing committee, the Department of Agriculture reviewed that over 136 000 jobs in the province’s agricultural sector depend on AGOA. However, South Africa's continued inclusion in AGOA benefits that's up for re-authorisation and in 2025 is far from the shred due to the national government’s fumbling approach to international relations.



These jobs are linked to critical commodity groups, including wine, citrus, nuts, dairy and deciduous fruit. The House of reality is that failure to urgently secure our AGOA status will result in a devastating loss of jobs in the province.



The Western Cape’s strategic investment in developing the United States of America as an export market has led to phenomenal growth in our agricultural sector. If the United States of America decides not to renew our inclusion in AGOA, it will hold dire consequences for Western Cape. Therefore, the DA in the Western Cape is tirelessly working to avert such a destructive scenario.


Hon House Chair, thanks to substantial funding provided by the Western Cape Department of Agriculture, our province has remained free from outbreaks of foot and mouth disease. This year alone, they have allocated R10,3 million to combat

potential diseases like foot and mouth disease and enhanced market access support to our pharmacy in that regard.



Additionally, we call upon the Department of Agriculture to collaborate with the Department of Trade and Industry and Competition to facilitate exports particularly wine, by assisting more Western Cape farmers in participating in foreign shows. We cannot exaggerate the importance of expanding market opportunities for agricultural products on a global state.


Furthermore, the Department of Agriculture in the Western Cape and the nationally must also recognise and allow provinces like the Western Cape which is Steve Elsenburg Agricultural Training College to continue managing quality agricultural training. The Western Cape has consistently shown that we are more than capable to manage quality agricultural training.



When it comes to drought relief, we urge the department to extend support beyond fodder, encompassing assistance to fruit farmers who have suffered losses of trees due to drought and now with the floods enabling them to re-establish orchards and thrive once again.

House Chair, to make matters worse in our agricultural sector in our province, national government plans to implement a race quota system for water, placing further burdens on our farmers. According to draft regulations, enterprises seeking water use licenses will be required to allocate shares of up to 75% to black South Africans for these licenses to be granted.



Experts from the industry have warned of the severe consequences this would have on food security and the sustainability of agricultural sector unless the Minister and the department take concrete action to address these challenges, South Africa's agriculture sector will face deadly consequences.



Hon House Chair, the state of land reform in South Africa is deeply concerning. The establishment and support of emerging farmers are showing disheartening low success rate. The Western Cape government is committed to the land reform programme and continue to provide support to land reform beneficiaries through the Department of Agriculture.



Our programme is doing a redress and equity through land reform. The Western Cape Department of Agriculture has

partnered with commodity organizations through the commodity approach which strengthen the support rendered to land reform farmers and beneficiaries.


We have signed 11 memorandums of understanding with industry partners focusing on key value chain change in our province.


Key to this approach is the facilitation of access to markets and mentorship support provided to land reform farmers by the commodity organizations at no cost to the department, nor to the farmer, thereby contributing to the commercialization process.



Furthermore, it was through the commodity approach that the department was awarded the Jobs Fund project valued at

R120 million for commercialization of farmers in the deciduous fruit sector. Through this project, we have added over 300 hectares of fruit for land reform farmers since 2016.



The Western Cape is by far the only province that has perfected this model, which is key for successful land reform. Land reform success in the Western Cape is not just about statistics, but it represents real people with their own real stories of success.

However, the powered lack of property rights, which may fairly deteriorate if the Expropriation Bill is passed, poses a significant obstacle to the progress of emerging farmers.

Additionally, the substantial investments made over the years will have unfortunately be squandered, exacerbating the urgency of addressing these issues.



Hon House Chair, the DA run Western Cape consistently ...


{Interjections.] ... about good intentions are consistently met with opposition and the lack of urgency from the national government. We in the Western Cape, love our farmers and we love our farm workers and recognize that without them, this country’s food security will be in jeopardy, I thank you.




DEVELOPMENT (Mr M Skwatsha): Hon House Chairperson...





... liyahamba ngoku ixesha.




USIHLALO WENDLU (Nksz W Ngenya): Alizi kuhamba ungekaqali, unemizuzu eli-12.






LWAMAPHANDLE (Mnu M Skwatsha): Khawukhe uyise kwi-12 mama.




USIHLALO WENDLU (Nksz W Ngenya): Mayibuyele kwi-12 ... [Ngokungavakaliyo.]




LWAMAPHANDLE (Mnu M Skwatsha): Nantso ke.





Hon House Chair, the Chair of the NCOP, the Deputy Chair of the NCOP, hon Minister, Didiza, Deputy Minister, Capa, hon chair of the select committee, hon Modise, hon members of the NCOP, senior officials of the department and our state-owned entities, distinguished guests, yesterday was the 19 June 2023. This marked 110 years since the 1913 Native Land Act became law. Its effects, the oppression and repression and suppression of land rights of our people due to this are still being felt today.



A lot has been written about its devastating impact on every aspect of life and livelihood of the indigenous inhabitants of the land. We, therefore, have a historical, moral and legal responsibility to deal and redress this injustice. Adv

Thembeka Ngcukaitobi in his book titled, Land Matters, remind us about what former President Mandela said about land reform, and I quote:


The experience of all countries everywhere is, if such wrongs are not put right, then the bitterness lives on for many generations. Our land reform program helps retrace the injustices of apartheid. It fosters national reconciliation and stability. It underpins economic growth and improves household welfare and food security.



Hon Chairperson, in dealing with this matter, we have land distribution. On land acquisition, to achieve the goal of equitable access of the land as enshrined in the Constitution of the Republic, our department acquires and allocates land under the land redistribution program. This is guided by the periphery selection and land allocation policy as adopted by our Cabinet in 2020. In the 2021-22 financial year, we reported that we had acquired 57 000 hectares of land.



In the 2022-2023 financial year, we acquired 51 000 hectares of land through the Plus Programme, exceeding our target of

35 000 hectares. The Northern Cape and the North West Provinces overachieved in terms of the targets that were

given, whilst the other provinces did not perform as per the Annual Performance Plan, APP. In 2024, we intend to allocate take 6 771 hectares with our allocated budget of R427 million. The breakdown is per province as follows:



The Eastern Cape is 3 062 hectares, Free State 4 217 hectares,


Gauteng, 750, KwaZulu-Natal, 2 099 hectares, Limpopo, 2 738,

Mpumalanga, 2 310, Northwest, 5 273, Northern Cape, 15 196 and the Western Cape, 1 126. I should also mention, Chairperson, that the high land prices are still a challenge. The rejection by landowners of values determined by the Valuer-General remains a reality and the challenge, especially, in the Western Cape Province.



This delay is the finalisation of some land claims and land reform in general. In the previous financial year, we acquired

5 270 hectares. The department has set aside a budget of R218 million for acquisition of land to address security of

tenure. In this regard, we intend to acquire 5 685 hectares of land in the current financial year. The land to be acquired for tenure security addresses different land tenure needs, including, settlement of labour tenants’ applications and the Extension of Security of Tenure Act occupiers.

In this regard, we have allocated to provinces as follows: In the Eastern Cape R27 783,000, Free State R14 683,000, Gauteng, R14 038,000, KwaZulu-Natal, R70 4000, Limpopo, R2 558,000,

Mpumalanga, R63 306,000, North West, R16 712,000, Northern Cape, R1 200,000, Western Cape, R8 million. On labour tenants and the special master that was appointed, the Office of the Special Master and the department are having a conversation on how best to effect and fast track this particular work. The majority of these labour tenants are in KwaZulu-Natal, Mpumalanga and Limpopo.


On the CPAs, in the past


financial year, we registered 18 Communal Property Associations, and over 3000 CPA members received training on governance of these entities to ensure compliance with the Communal Property Association Act. We will further train 715 executive members on governance of these CPAs. In 2021, we said that we will be starting with an audit of the CPAs, and that it would take two financial years. Today, we can report that the audit was finalised at the end of April, and the department is just waiting to receive the report and consider way forward.

Our President has led us in izimbizo throughout the country. We have, in every province where we undertook an imbizo, been led by our Minister, meeting with our CPAs, dealing with all kinds of nitty gritties. In Mpumalanga we visited Gert Sibande, Nkagala and Ehlanzeni Districts, and similar work has been done in other provinces. It must be emphasised that the executive is leading on behalf of the beneficiaries of the CPAs for all transactions they do on the land. They must account to the membership of the CPAs. The membership should have a voice on what is happening on their land, and not be spectators.



On Communal Tenure Reform, the Transformation of Certain Rural Areas Act, the process to expedite the transfer of land situated in 23 rural areas in four provinces, continues in our country, and the progress has been made. A total of 106 000 hectares has been transferred to the communities in the Eastern Cape and the Northern Cape. These deserving communities must and must receive their land back. When we addressed the National Assembly on 9 May during the Budget Vote, we indicated that the department intended to give title deeds to the Transformation of Certain Rural Areas Act, communities.

We can now say that, just in the last week, we held a successful title deeds handover ceremony in Kirkwood, Sarah Baartman District, at the Inn on Beersheba, Transformation of Certain Rural Areas Act, area. On communal land, we reported that our department in collaboration with the Department of Traditional Affairs and Co-operative Governance and Justice, concluded the consultation process by hosting a summit which resulted in 38 outcomes that are currently being processed through the Inter-Ministerial Committee, IMC.



The department further hosted the seminar academics to solicit further inputs. We regard this as a very important work, and we are getting ready to hand over the land to the traditional leaders as custodians, on behalf of their people. The Office of the Valuer-General, OVG, in fulfilling the vision of setting itself in the market as the centre of excellence and innovation in respect of all property valuations, with a primary focus on land reform, the office is making remarkable progress.


In the previous financial year, the OVG received the valuation requests which are over 200% higher than the previous financial year, due to the increase in the number of valuation requests from land reform programme and the OVG’s new clients.

I’m pleased to report that the ministerial advisory panel established in 2019, has completed its work, and the final report is enroute to the Minister for Health consideration. This report aims to provide recommendations which will improve the systems and structures of the OVG.



In the same breath, the OVG is further looking forward to investing in a formal program of digital transformation. This digital transformation strategy is expected to transform and accelerate the delivery of set strategic outcomes as defined in the 2023-24 APP. In the 2023-24 financial year, the OVG is still targeting to complete 100% of valuations received from land tenure reform, land redistribution and the Commission on the Restitution of Land Rights as defined in our APP.



The restitution program is continuing. We are finalising as per instructions of the Constitutional Court, that we should finalise all those that were launched before the 1998 cutoff date. We report on a six-month basis to the Land Claims Court on the on the progress that we did in this regard. ... [Interjections.] ... There are many challenges that we continue to face in the process of settling claims with the delay settlement processes, both internal and external

factors. As I conclude, I see that Magwala really follows his name, he has disappeared...




... ligwala lokwenyani.





I just want to say to him because Mr Motsamai is here, please advise him that, he must know and understand what is happening in our country...




... akangomhambi eJerusalem.






As we speak here, people were removed because of the Group Areas Act in 1955, just two kilometres away from here in District Six, are having n keys to their houses, and they are really enjoying themselves. ... [Interjections.] ... The people of Simon’s Town who were removed those years ago, are also happily settled by this democratic government. Lastly, Chair, I just want to say that ... [Interjections.] ... the DA must understand that land is the national competency. Thank you. [Time expired.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Order, hon members, order, hon members.



Mr M NHANHA: Through you, House Chairperson, Minister, I am still around. Hon members, on 22 May 2021 President Ramaphosa on his twitter account wrote, “we celebrate our progress, because day by day our land reform program is gaining momentum...




... mamelani ...




... to date, government has distributed over 5 million hectares of land, totalling around 5 500 farms, to more than

300 000 beneficiaries.” Hon members, whether the above mediocre performance by the government is worth celebrating, is a debate for another day. It is well and good to give people often productive land, but what happens afterwards to those farms, should actually be the government’s key performance indicator. Hon Aucamp and Deputy Minister, Skwatsha, have mentioned the Plus Programme. Since 2006, the government has spent over R12 billion purchasing farms to

settle land reform claims under the Proactive Land Reform Strategy, PLAS.



Again, it is well and good to give people often productive land. However, it is alarming to note that the ANC government’s lacklustre implementation of post settlement support by the end of 2022, has resulted in 75% failure rate of farms acquired under Plus. Little or no production at all is taking place on these farms, a fact, Deputy Minister, Skwatsha, conveniently forgot to mention in his speech.


The poor support by the Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development can be further illustrated by a government funded dairy farm in the Eastern Cape...




... Mam’uCapa maFaku ...






... in Port St Johns. In 2014 the provincial and national governments funded a dairy farm in Mantusini village with a cash injection of about R43 million. To date, hon members, operations on Mantusini Dairy Farm came to a grinding halt due to lack of support from government. This is just a tip of the

iceberg, there is multiple similar projects across the Eastern Cape that have collapsed under the ANC’s watch.



Minister, I am pleased that you are engaging the traditional leaders on communal land use, but you better hurry up, Minister...





... abantu bayazicandela imihlaba ndithetha nawe nje ngoku. Kweza ndawo bekumele ukuba kukho amadlelo okanye amasimi kuyakhiwa. Abantu bakha izindlu. Mama uBebee, usisihlobo sam madikuyeke wena ndingaxabani nawe.




More often than not, the DA is accused of criticising for the sake of criticising, but had you listened carefully to hon America today, indeed, the DA is making a difference where it governs. Hon members, there is no way that we will sit back as the government of the Western Cape whilst the ANC government at national level is messing up the African Growth and Opportunity Act, Trade and Agreements, and as the Western Cape, we stand to be hurt most.

So, our Premier, Premier Alan Winde, was absolutely correct and was absolutely right to be proactive and try and protect the interest of his government in the Western Cape. Hon Magwala, before you attack the DA, I hope, already...





... sele uzibhatele iibhasi ezingama-20 ...





... we have paid for your 20 buses. That must be your ... [Interjections.] ... and lastly, hon members,




USIHLALO WENDLU (Nksz W Ngwenya): [Ngokungavakaliyo] ... apho phambi kwakho tata.



Mr M NHANHA: Lastly, hon members, it pains me when Ma’Faku does not even mention Port St Johns when she talks about the floods. Thank you.





Mr Z MKIVA: Mandithathe eli thuba Sihlalo weNdlu, ndibulise kuMphathiswa ojengene neSebe lezoLimo, uHlenga-hlengiso loMhlaba noPhuhliso lwamaPhandle, uMama uThoko Didiza, uSekela

Mphathiswa, uBawo uSikhwatsha, uMama uCapha, nabaphathiswa bonke bamasebe emaphondweni, ndibhekise koogxa bam kule Ndlu, ngelithi, ndivumeleni namhlanje ndithi camagu kuni nonke.

Mandiqale kule ndawo uBawo uNhanha ayibekayo. Ndicinga ukuba nikhetha iphela emasini kuba xa nime kule ndawo niyaziyeka zonke izinto ezintle ezenziwe ngulo rhulumente wabantu, esenzela abemi beli lizwe. Nizixakekise ngokujongana namakhwiniba amancinci, niphethe usiba olubhala bomvu ngokungathi xa kusetyenzwa azibikho iimpazamo ezimbalwa.

Zibakhona iimpazamo xa kusetyenzwa kodwa zimbalwa futhi ke sikhawuleza sizilungise. Yonke le nto uyithethayo usityityimbisela umnwe ngokufeda kwethu kodwa into omaze uyiqonde yeyokuba iminwe emine ikhombe kuwe. Xa ningawuboni umsebenzi omhle owenziwe lurhulumento kuthetha ukuba nimfamekile ngenene...





... you are making a reference to the statement made by hon America who happens to represent the Western Cape government. You went to America to go and represent a country without a mandate. How dare you go to America to speak on a matter which is a national instrument? It is only the Minister at his level who must engage. You’re in violation of the policies of this country. Actually, you have committed treason to go and engage

another country as a province that does not have a jurisdiction to tackle issues that are related to the African Growth and Opportunity Act.




Kuba nje singenachuku, asisayi kumisana nani kwiinkundla zamatyala sinenze ngathi nibalulekile nibe ningabalulekanga. Ukuba besithanda besiza kunisa kwiinkundla zamatyala nifunyanwe ninetyala ngalaa nto niyenzileyo. Sinityityimbisela umnwe apha kweli Bhunga lamaPhondo leSizwe, sisithi shenxani kuloo nto.




The Western Cape is a provincial government, it is not an independent state. You are not an independent state. The primary mandate of issues that are related to agriculture in this country are under the auspices of the national Minister. She is the only one. It is very true. Now, let me address this august House in the following manner, the low economic growth and coronavirus disease, Covid-19, has brought with it many economic and social challenges in the country, but it has also given us an important lesson from which inclusive economic development can occur. For the ANC government, the correction of historical injustice through ensuring inclusive economic

development and growth leading to transformation is a critical principle. It is one that cannot be left to the market forces alone as this perpetuates the status quo of the past. The country is attempting to reverse the historic challenges of the apartheid past which were imposed on the majority of the people in the form of poverty, inequality, unemployment and historic economic exclusion. This can only occur through planned and programmatic interventions by the ANC government, which must ensure economic transformation and the creation of a better life for all.



The development of agricultural sector through land reform creates new inclusive economic opportunities for the development of the majority of the people in the country. It is an important component of Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan and adds economic value to the country. Nearly 18% of the households in South Africa are involved in agriculture in the country and this needs to be increased through land reform and the expansion of small and medium black farmers. Rural development ensures that there is no big influx from rural areas to urban areas to seek economic opportunities and jobs. The influx of people from rural areas to urban areas places social pressure on infrastructure in the urban areas, which is unable to sustain such a large influx of

people, nor are there jobs available for these people in urban spaces.



The problem with the DA is that it does not appreciate the fact that in the apartheid era there was absolutely no infrastructure in the rural communities of our country. When you talk about the access roads, the only road that you would find in a rural area would be a road that leads you to a general dealer which was owned by a white South African.

However, this new government has created access roads across all the rural spaces of our country and those roads help us to actually be able to drive from one village to the other. You cannot deny that fact, it is a fact of life. Moreover, a number of downstream industries become possible in an agricultural sector, leading to rural industrialisation and job creation in the sector. As previous ANC speakers have indicated that land reform is actively occurring and this needs to translate into successful black, small and medium scale farmers.



In the current financial year, the Land Bank will receive R407 million. It is important that the department engages the Land Bank in relation to its funding programme for small and medium farmers. The blended financial model does not

facilitate the entry and development of small and medium farmers, but rather establish farmers which have a balance sheet and can provide equity and collateral for loans and can develop bankable business plans for agricultural projects. The department’s budget for the land restitution programme and farmer development support is substantive but insufficient to solve development and effective functioning of small and medium scale farmers. New entrants require venture capital to establish viable farming operations which enable these enterprises to obtain further funding. Moreover, the cost of capital on the basis of high interest rates places these ventures in a debt over a long period of time. This in turn places the development of these ventures in a disadvantageous position. In other words, their core structure is higher than their competition, which was placed by the apartheid in a historically advantageous position.



Therefore, the cheapening of the cost of capital is crucial for the success of emerging small and medium scale black farmers. It is hoped that the department will look into this issue to find creative solutions to ensure the financial success of black small and medium farmers. The department as alluded here, has a training programme for small and medium scale farmers which enables the skilling of the sector in

different provinces. The creation of markets for the production from emerging farmers is a critical part of the downstream support which is required by the sector. Agro- processing zones must be planned in close proximity to the emerging farming communities as part and parcel of the District Developmental Model. This must ensure rural industrialisation, local beneficiation and job creation.



The Minister spoke here about a meeting in Pretoria on Phakisa when it comes to the cannabis. The development of the cannabis master plan is a crucial thing for the development of the new agricultural sector with its associated downstream manufacturing. I can attest I was there yesterday when the Minister opened that particular lab, which is a working session where all the critical stakeholders are in place including...




...abantu abasuka emaMpondweni kuba thina siyayazi ukuba intsangu yigolide yabantu bakuthi kwaye sifikelele kwithuba lokuba siyisebenzisele ukuvelisa amathuba emisebenzi. Abantu abalibele kufeketha, mabayekwe bafekethe. Abantu abalibele kutefa abafana neDA mabayekwe batefe, thina siza kuqhubela phambili.



The agricultural and agro-processing master plan must be developed as we have developed the cannabis plan. The development of that plan must also lead to another master plan around sugar. I am making an example that the sugar industry made much progress when the Sugar Master Plan was rolled out for implementation. However, the industry is experiencing a number of challenges in the form of land availability, lack of financial resources, high transaction costs, fertilisers and water, amongst others. The department has correctly emphasised the importance to sustain the local consumption and to obtain and sustain preferential market access and diversification.

However, it is important to also resolve some of other challenges which is affecting the development of the industry. This will enable the development of the industry as it contributes substantively to the economy, in particular, to areas from KwaZulu-Natal and the Eastern Cape.


The Poultry Master Plan has developed into a success story, which is a cause for celebration in so far as we are concerned. While the industry was recently challenged by load shedding, it has been able to sustain production and is a major exporter of agricultural products from South Africa. The Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development

is already supporting the master plan in terms of standards that are required and ensure access to the markets. The expansion of the industry to meet increased demand and support exports will create more than 3 700 jobs. The department will need to pursue further exports agreements with different countries to diversify the export market and not be dependent for exports on a single market. Therefore, we are saying, Minister, make use of the Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa, Brics, community. It is a very big space wherein we can ensure that that diversification must take effect from that particular relationship that we have with the Brics countries.



It is important that the Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development review the prices of food which are supplied from the sector. Since the outbreak of the conflict between Russia and its neighbour Ukraine, the price of cooking oil has gone up due to the lack of international supply. Yet, 70% of cooking oil supplied in our country is locally manufactured and only 30% is imported. This means that cooking oil is priced in the domestic market on an import parity basis, as if even the local production is imported.

This type of pricing locally manufactured goods needs to be

assessed by the department to ensure that people are able to purchase basic food items at the cheapest possible cost.



Given South Africa’s apartheid colonial past, the expansion of the agricultural sector, land reform and rural development cannot be left to the market forces alone for its development and requires a conscious programme for the correction of the historical injustices of apartheid colonialism. Neither it is possible to implement state fundamentalism in a sector as government alone cannot develop the agricultural sector but needs to work with different social partners to achieve the goal of inclusive economic development and transformation of the sector. Land reform is about inclusive economic development, transformation and ensuring food security. It is not about the disruption of food security in the country. The ANC government will not engage in activities that results in increased costs of living in terms of food prices.





Asingorhulumente weendlavini, owenza izinto ezikrwada ezingaphaya komthetho welizwe obekiweyo. Yonke into esiyenzayo siyenza ngendlela enembeko ehambelana nemigaqo nemithetho yelizwe ukwenzela ukuba ilizwe lethu lingapheleli ebugxwayibeni liyokugangxeleka emaweni.

USIHLALO WENDLU (Nks W Ngwenya): Ixesha lakho liphelile sana, ilungu elihloniphekileyo belenze isiphakamiso sonqwanqwado.

Ixesha lakho liphelile ngoku kwaye andinalo ixesha elishiyekileyo.





Mr Z MKIVA: On behalf of the ANC, we support this Budget Policy Vote No 29 of the Department Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development ... [Interjections.]




Masiye phambili, Mphathiswa...




The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon members...





Enkosi kakhulu.




Mr W A S AUCAMP: Hon House Chairperson, it has been several times that you have allowed the ANC ... [Interjections.}



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Order, I can’t hear anything.

Mr W A S AUCAMP: You can’t hear me.




The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): No, no, no, no, hon Labuschagne ... [Interjections.]



Mr W A S AUCAMP: Would you protect me, hon House Chairperson.




The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): ... If you want to go out, go out, and don’t speak because I didn’t allow you to speak, and you cannot speak with me ...




... ume la emhubheni.





You must sit down if you want to speak with me.




Mr W A S AUCAMP: Hon House Chairperson, am I recognised? Hon House Chairperson, it has been on several occasions today that you have allowed ANC speakers to ... [Interjections.] ... when I had my speech, you stopped me five seconds before my time expired. I really think it is important and that the House Chairperson in this House must be objective. I am going to take you up. The point of order is that a speaker must not be

subjective it must be objective. Hon House Chairperson, I am addressing you, will you please protect me.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Order! Order, hon members! Order! Are you done, hon member?



Mr W A S AUCAMP: No, I’m not because I’m interrupted, will you protect me?


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Are you done, hon member?



Mr W A S AUCAMP: No, I’m not because I’m interrupted, will you protect me please? Please protect me.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon member, you are behaving like them, all of you because you are all standing. No one is better than anyone ... [Interjections.]



Mr W A S AUCAMP: Please protect me. Can I address you without being interrupted.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): If you want me to listen to you, you must be in order. Order, hon members! Order!

Order, hon members! Order! Sit down, hon Labuschagne. Sit down, hon Labuschagne.



Mr W A S AUCAMP: You don’t know the rules, hon House Chairperson. You don’t know the rules. You are a disgrace to this House. You are a disgrace to this House.



An HON MEMBER: You are out of order. You are out of order.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon members...





 ... ngicela ningiyekeleni, ningangimeli kulo mcimbi ngoba ngiyabona ukuthi lo mcimbi uyaphi. Ngakhoke ningasimeli kulo mcimbi.




I would like to take now a ruling that hon Mkiva was given 15 minutes, it was not yet finished, on your point of order that you raised, hon member. Hon member, I have taken a ruling that there was no point of order. Can I continue and invite hon A T Didiza, Minister of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development ... [Interjections.]

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Hon House Chair, I rise on a point of order. Hon Chair, I will not leave this House and I will not stop speaking until you recognise me. If you don’t give me a chance, I will not sit down. Then I will keep on speaking about the speaker. House Chairperson, rule ... Hon House Chair! No, House Chair, I can’t be ... [Inaudible.] ... House Chair that doesn’t respect me. I’s so sorry, House Chair, the decorum of this House is being ... [Inaudible.] ... Point of order, Rule 69. House Chairperson, Rule 69 ... She doesn’t want to listen to me. You don’t ... [Inaudible.]



Ms T C MODISE: Thank you very much, House Chairperson. I rise on the point of order. You know, normally we allow these members, especially the DA members, to disrupt this House and you allow them to speak. Hon House Chair, so can you not allow them to speak because they are undermining you as a Chair.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon members, I wanted to listen to hon Labuschagne, but she didn’t want me to point her. She had spoken before I asked her to speak. I wanted to listen to what she was saying but...




 ... yena uthathe isinqumo sokukhuluma ngaphambi kokuthi mina ngithi akakhulume.




Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: House Chairperson, if you want to listen to me, I will speak.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon Motsamai, I don’t want to allow you for now because I want to listen to hon Labuschagne but ...




 ... indlela yokuziphatha yakhe yiwo eyenza ngingakwazi ukuqhuba kahle umsebenzi.




Hon Labuschagne, you can speak.




Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: House Chairperson, Rule 69 in the Rule Book states that if you want to raise a point of order, you indicate by raising. There is no rule that says that we have to put our hands up that is to start off with. Therefore, every time if we put our hands up and you ignore us, what do we do? What can we do because I put my hand up, you looked at

me, and when I put the microphone on you told me to sit down. You don’t know on what point order I want to raise. You can’t assume that because I am in the same party as the other person that I am going to raise the same point of order. That happened in the three previous meetings and the decorum of this House is down because there is no fairness in the ruling. For example, in the previous sitting the Deputy Chair stood up and she just spoke, and you allowed her. Therefore, in this ruling, she is doing it again. In this ruling hon D C ... [Inaudible.] ... put her hand up and just because she’s the ANC member you listened to her. No, House Chair, it’s unfair, it’s unacceptable and I will write this letter ... [Interjections.] ... will address it. I ... [Interjections.]

... it up till now. I will take this up, I will lay a charge, and I will not only address it.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon members and hon Labuschagne, I was listening to you carefully, but I want to correct you. I was still listening to hon Aucamp, you stood up and speak before he finished what he was saying. Therefore, I couldn’t hear even what he was saying because all of you were also making noise. Hence, I said before I allowed him to speak, I said can you all keep quiet so that I can listen to hon Aucamp. Therefore, what you are saying is not true, hon

Labuschagne. Hon members, we are not going to sleep here for the point of order that has done wrong. Hon members, can you please allow the Minister to finish the debate. Over to you, hon Minister.





DEVELOPMENT: Thank you very much, hon Chairperson, Deputy Ministers, chairperson of the portfolio committee, hon members, senior officials. I would like to respond to some of the issues that were raised in this debate by hon members without following any order in the way in which they made their interventions.


I want to support what hon Mkiva said in respect of the member of the issues that were raised by other members that borders on the issue of constitutionality. I want us to remember that Chapter 3 of our Constitution, that deals with issues of co- operative and concurrent governance, Article 40 to 41(1) says one of the principles that must be respected is to preserve the peace, national unity and indivisibility of the Republic, co-operate with one another in mutual trust and good faith.



I raise this issue, hon Chair, because there are a number of interventions that borders on this matter which were raised by

hon members. One is related to disease control and disease management. We must indicate that veterinary service is actually a provincial function, but disease control, first and foremost, is the responsibility of the farmer.



Government does come in, indeed, in supporting in terms of animal health through policy and regulation, but also programmatic interventions. As much as we can pride ourselves in the Western Cape, and say we do not have FMD, let us actually appreciate that other provinces are a buffer to the Western Cape because of where you are located.



Secondly, on avian flu, which we are dealing with now in the Western Cape, as national government, where there has been a problem of animal health disease, we have never stood back and say it is a matter of the province. It is because we understand the need for co-operation and coexistence between provinces and national, in ensuring that collectively we manage and protect our it. So, it is a worry, at times, that these matters are dealt with in the manner in which some of the hon members make such interventions.



With respect to the issue of international agreements, particularly when it relates to issues of trade, these

international agreements are a competence of national government. While we appreciate that there might be concerns from different provinces on what might seemingly impact on trade with other countries, I don’t think it is within our right to actually violate our own Constitution.



Chairperson, maybe some of these issues might require revisiting and educating one another about what our Constitution says, which is the supreme of the law. On issues of restitution, as other members were articulating here, hon Nhanha, if you look at that legislation, it says:



As part of addressing this bad legacy of our past: Government will intervene through land reform, who in part will have to deal with restitution - where people can claim original land where it is available; and alternative land - where original land is not available or even choose financial compensation.



However, it is very interesting when we do the assessment of our land reform that we become so oblivious about investment in terms of financial compensation. I would invite members to actually look at some of the communities and families who have

received financial compensation. What they have done to improve their own environment and their livelihoods.



Therefore, when we do these measures of assessment, it is also important to understand and appreciate, as South Africans, what difficulties are there, because there are. The fact that we chose peace, as the oppressed majority of South Africans, where land reform is undertaken, that we will be able to negotiate and agree on a price, should not blind us that some of our compatriots have actually stalled this process by putting higher prices, taking longer to negotiate, such that we are not able to reach the desired impact.


It would have been interesting if we feel the way we feel, all of us. Maybe we should have all supported the amendment of the Constitution on expropriation without compensation, because if we understood that this is critical for the transformation of this country, that is what we should do. [Interjections.] If the Western Cape government - the DA-led government - was really concerned about land reform and the use of land that has been restituted and redeveloped. They should be supporting it; not to stand here and pontificate. [Time expired.] Thank you very much, hon Chair.

Debate on Budget Vote 29 Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development concluded.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): I would like to thank the Minister, Deputy Minister, MECs, special delegates and Salga representatives for their participation.



The Council adjourned at 20:10