Hansard: NA: Mini-Plenary (Debate on Vote 4 )

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 16 May 2023

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Minutes

UNREVISED HANSARD
MINI PLENARY - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
TUESDAY, 16 MAY 2023
VOTE NO 4 GCIS
PROCEEDINGS OF HYBRID MINIPLENARY – COMMITTEE ROOM M46
Watch: Mini-Plenary (Debate on Vote 4)

 

APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate on Vote No 4 - Government Communications and Information System:

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon House Chairperson, Deputy Ministers, Ms Nomasonto Motaung and Kenny Morolong, the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Communications and Digital Technologies, hon Boyce Maneli, members of the Portfolio Committee on Communications and Digital Technologies, management of the Government Communication and Information System, GCIS, members of the board of Media Development and Diversity Agency led by the chairperson Dr Hlengani Mathebula, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, a year from now our country will most likely be in the throes of a general election that will mark 30 years since we started the journey of freedom and democracy for all South Africans since
we started the journey of freedom and democracy for all South Africans.

When we mark our democratic milestones, we often fail to acknowledge where exactly we were before freedom dawned. In this month of May, 30 years ago, our country was reeling from the assassination a month earlier of our liberation fighter, Chris Hani. This assassination endangered the negotiations that were underway in Ekurhuleni at the time. Indeed, Ekurhuleni was not known as Ekurhuleni back then because we had not reached freedom and this level of transformation of our society or of our physical landscape.

The South African economy was still isolated from the global economy; workplaces were untransformed; service delivery was uneven; our diplomatic relations were just beginning to integrate a pariah state into the global community. We had no cellphones, internet or WhatsApp and this Parliament had three Chambers that excluded the black African majority of our population.

So, as we engage on this Budget Vote address, let no one rise to claim that the South Africa of 1993 is better than the
South Africa of 2023. As we reflect on our historical calendar, the month of May enjoys a significant place in our history for freedom. This is a place of pain and sadness as we reflect on the worst impacts of our history, but it also a place that allows to reflect with pride and relief at the road we have travelled in three decades to becoming a society that leaves no one behind. In May, we commemorate May Day as an occasion dedicated to honouring the workers of our nation.

Just a few days ago, we marked 29 years since one of the world’s great leaders – who tended cattle in a village kraal in Qunu became the first democratically elected President of an inclusive and free South Africa. This May also marks 46 years since the apartheid regime, in desperation and in violation of human rights and simple regard for family life, banished uMama Winnie Madikizela-Mandela to a house with no water or electricity in Brandfort in the Free State. From the point of view of the apartheid state, Winnie Mandela’s confinement served as a warning to anyone who challenged the state.

Today we celebrate the fact that with this action, the apartheid state simply inflamed the fight against apartheid at
home and internationally and that apartheid deepened the world’s revulsion and outrage at the nation brand the South Africa of 1977 presented to the international community.

As we debate Budget Vote 4 of the Government Communication and Information System for the 2023-24 financial year, we note it is 31 years to the day when the second Convention for a Democratic South Africa, commonly known as Codesa II ended in a deadlock when the parties could not reach agreement on the shape of the interim government, in particular the ANC’s rejection of the National Party’s proposal for a minority veto within the interim government. Our inability to collectively remember, mark or commemorate these and other important moments in the development of our nation will undermine our ability to effective inform and mobilise South Africans in our democratic dispensation.

In 2023 and 2024, the Government Communication and Information System of our democracy is tasked with communicating South Africa’s story of transformation and progress to the nation and the world. We are also tasked with engaging with citizens and the international community on a range of platforms that allow us to listen and respond to people’s concerns,
complaints, compliments – yes, we get those - and proposals for how we can grow South Africa together. To us, the provision of information to citizens and stakeholders and our interactive engagement with interested parties is an exercise in service delivery.

This exercise entails understanding the mood of the nation and mobilising South Africans and our global partners to contribute to the building of our society and our economy. Our nation’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic and our reopening of the economy is an impactful example of what we can achieve when we work together as different sectors of society on the basis of understanding the complexities of a challenge to the nation.

Communication plays a fundamental role in bridging the divide between government and citizens, as it allows the public to gain access to relevant information. It also provides channels for citizens to engage with the administration on issues that matter most to them. In the 2023-24 financial year, the Government Communication and Information System will dedicate its expertise and resources to providing South Africans and our partners with information that can help us achieve
progress in those priority areas spelt out by President Cyril Ramaphosa in the 2023 state of the nation address. These areas are load shedding, unemployment, poverty and the rising cost of living, crime and corruption and service delivery. Our communications will support the tireless and hard work undertaken by government to address the challenges we have listed. We will sustain the flow of information on these priorities through, among others, the regular briefings we present to the nation on all the priorities.

South Africans will see our implementation of service delivery through media briefings of the kind we currently undertake, with growing frequency, such as on our efforts to stabilise the national energy grid and bring new generating power online. The Government Communication and Information System will develop content for its online accounts and develop streams of information that will empower citizens to access social and economic opportunities. We will development content for our own print media and for its audiovisual outlets, as well as through advertising, the purchasing of which we coordinate on behalf of departments and agencies.
This week, residents of the Western Cape, and Paarl in particular, will engage directly with the President and members of the executive at our District Development Model Presidential Imbizo in Paarl. Izimbizo are a critical platform for dialogue between government and citizens and stakeholder groups, as all of us have a responsibility and opportunity to building the South Africa we want. The Government Communication and Information System will work with departments, provinces, state-owned enterprises and partners in civil society to deepen communication of government’s programmes and the nation’s promise as a destination and partner for tourism, trade and investment.

In the period ahead, we will redouble our efforts to strengthen co-ordination of the government communication system, harness partnerships with labour, business and civil society, intensify community engagements, increase the use of digital platforms to reach a wider section of the population, improve communication in all official languages and empower community radio stakeholders as a local medium of communication with a national footprint. Amid the challenges we face, we understand the need for our messages to be substantiated by the underlying performance of the
administration at the national, provincial and municipal level.

With this in mind, we will consistently involve the implementers of government programmes in our communications roll-out, as part of ensuring that communications hold implementers to account. Our long-term programme of communication will be inspired by and serve as a support mechanism to our realisation of the National Development Plan, our Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan and the Five- Point Energy Action Plan.

As South Africa ventures into the opportunities presented by the African Continental Free Trade Agreement and a continental market of more than a billion people, we will communicate programmes that support regional integration and the African Agenda 2063. The Government Communication and Information System GCIS will put its best foot forward later this year in hosting an expected 200 journalists from our continent and elsewhere who will constitute the Brics Media Forum from 18 to
19 August 2023. Media organisations and institutions from Brics countries, developing countries and emerging economies
have had in-depth exchanges and initiated practical cooperation that drives the forum.

The Brics Forum has played a vital role in strengthening mutual learning among participants and promoting the Brics spirit of openness, inclusiveness, co-operation and mutual benefit. Our engagement with the international community will be guided by our understanding that a positive and powerful country brand provides a crucial competitive advantage in this globalised economy. Our country represents the spirit of resilience, hope and the pursuit of shared prosperity.

Our President put it best in this House in February when he said: “We are, at our most essential, a nation defined by the hope and resilience”. This is often expressed in our street lingo such as ...

Afrikaans:

‘n Boer maak ‘n plan.

English:

... and ...
IsiZulu:

Indoda ayipheli amandla.

English:

During the 2023-24 financial year, Brand SA will work to strengthen our country’s brand position and reputation as part of our Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan, a Better Africa and Better World and Leaving No One Behind.

We live in a rapidly changing world in which technology is evolving at an unprecedented pace. During COVID-19, the GCIS embraced technological platforms to facilitate remote meetings, connectivity and communication. These technologies have now become the norm and have allowed the GCIS to expand its operational capacity to reach a much larger audience.
However, these technologies are only the tip of the iceberg and game-changing technology such as the new ChatGPT App is now being used by government departments in other countries to streamline their workflow. We will investigate the ethical legitimacy of such innovations as part of modernising and updating our communications practices.
As a response to the fast-changing communication environment, the GCIS will fast-track the upskilling of its workforce, and this goes hand in hand with upgrading information and communications technology systems to meet new demands. But we are also a country where many communities still primarily rely more on the traditional methods of communication such as face- to-face engagements. In this regard, the GCIS will continue to play a central role in supporting the Presidential outreach imbizo programme.

The GCIS is therefore committed to providing communication that not only touches and changes lives, but is also relevant and easily understood by all the people. The department will strive to speak to every audience in a medium or language they understand, and will work to blend its communication approach to reach those with or without access to resources and technology, and also those living in the far-flung areas of the country.

We recently observed the 30th Anniversary of World Press Freedom Day. This day reinforced the reality in our democracy that we uphold the right to freedom of expression and freedom of the press, as enshrined in section 16 of the Constitution.
The political freedom media enjoys it, however, severely contrasted by the economic constraints facing this sector. The National Development Plan acknowledges that access to information through print, broadcasting and electronic media is vital for an informed citizenry and economic development.

However, the decline in advertising revenues and circulation figures is one of the biggest challenges faced by the private sector and the community media alike. The long-term sustainability of any medium is critical for the GCIS as government relies on these platforms to disseminate government information to the citizens. The media remains a key stakeholder, and it is through our relationships with the media that we are able to communicate and reach the majority of our citizens.

During this financial year, we intend to strengthen these relations and as such, we are looking at lessons that we learnt during the COVID-19 period, which yielded very solid relations between the government, particularly the GCIS, and the media. This partnership is essential to ensure that citizens have access to information, which is the heartbeat to the health of our democracy, the development of our country
and an enabler to government to get into every home despite the distance and time.

To deal with persisting challenges of optional adherence to current communication norms and standards, Cabinet has approved the development of a White Paper Policy, which is the highest form of policy-making. In summary, the development of the White Paper Policy marks the beginning of promoting compliance with legislative frameworks governing the implementation of the government communication system across all three spheres of government, to enable meaningful co- ordination and coherence of messages. The goal of the White Paper Policy framework will provide the institutional arrangement needed to support the dissemination of information to citizens.

To achieve the objective of wide consultation, the GCIS will partner with community media to promote the 30 years of Democracy engagements but to also communicate the achievements. In this regard, the Media Development and Diversity Agency, commonly known as the MDDA, will strengthen its support for the community media to become viable and sustainable entities that are adapted to the use of technology
in the age of digital media. The MDDA will work with the National Electronic Media Institute of South Africa, Nemisa, on the training and the participation of community media on the Nemisa streaming platform. It is also our duty to ensure a transformed marketing, advertising and communications sector.

The recognition that news media are operating on an uneven playing field has prompted the GCIS to work with the industry leaders through a Ministerial-Appointed Steering Committee on Print and Digital Media Transformation and Revitalisation to consider proposals that can be implemented by the South African government. In March 2022, we appointed and launched the Marketing, Advertising and Communication Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Charter Council as our response to a call by Parliament to transform and sustain the advertising sector.

As the country commences the countdown towards 30 Years of Democracy, both the GCIS and Brand SA will focus on outlining the gains of the democratic government while creating a bridge between government and citizens to address the challenges confronting us. The 30 Years of Democracy Campaign is not a government-only endeavour but a whole of society matter.
In this regard, the GCIS will coordinate various engagement platforms as the country reflect on its journey and these will include roundtables and town-hall discussions and dzikhoroni - community meetings at traditional leaders. The principle is that wherever our people are found, they must reflect and express their views and experiences under a democratic dispensation, for this freedom is never about us, the leadership, it must always be about the people.

At the height of our struggle against apartheid, our forebears pledged to strive together, sparing neither strength nor courage, until the democratic changes set out in the Freedom Charter have been won. These engagements are informed by our belief that government communication also includes consultation and dialogue with stakeholders and we are committed to establishing a two-way dialogue with the public as part of enriching our participatory democracy.

This year, we celebrate 30 years since the establishment of the National Community Radio Forum which gives communities access to 200 locally relevant radio stations, which broadcast stories relevant to their needs and broadcast in the languages of their choices. The GCIS has been allocated R750 749 million
for the 2023-24 financial year and R782 847 million for 2024- 25.

The department’s current budget is allocated as follows: Transfers and subsidies to the entities, R256,6 million – which is 34%, of which R219 5 million is for Brand SA and
R37 million is for the MDDA; capital budget is 1% of the GCIS budget of R8,2 million; goods and services are 27% of
R201,8 million and compensation of employees is at 38% of R284,1 million.

With greater resources, GCIS would be able to do a lot more to ensure that all citizens and communities have access to information that adequately allows them to take advantage of the opportunities to improve their lives. To allow us to foster greater social cohesion and nation-building, while ensuring that government speaks with one voice and maintains continuous citizen-focused dialogue, considerations within the bleak economic climate should be explored to increase the budget allocation of the GCIS. This is based on the fact that when transferred to the entities are effected, GCIS remains with R494 1 million, which results to R8,2c per capita to provide communication to approximately 60 million citizens.
I wish to thank the Portfolio Committee on Communications and Digital Technologies for the valuable insight and support they continue to provide, while ensuring oversight that allows us to move government communications forward. We thank the chair and committee members for their continued support and we look forward to working together in the service of our nation as we approach 30 Years of Freedom and the 2024 national elections.

I also wish to thank my colleagues at the GCIS, the dedicated leadership and all staff members, for their continued support and invaluable contributions. I have no doubt that they will continue to rise to the challenge as they have done so in the past. And I also like to thank the support of my two Deputy Ministers in the load that we shared evenly together as we carry ship forward. Of all the national anniversaries I have cited today, I dedicate this conclusion to 25 years of GCIS, since its establishment in 1998, in the early days of our democracy. I am confident that our first 25 years will inspire us to another quarter century of growing South Africa together and leaving no one behind.

Tshivenda:

Ro livhuwa.
Mr L E MOLALA: Hon House Chair, hon Minister, the two Deputy Ministers, hon members of the House, fellow South Africans, early this year, the state President, President Matamela, gave assurance to the nation at large that, all parts of the government will focus on addressing issues that concern South Africa most, that being load shedding, unemployment, poverty, rising cost of living, including crime and corruption. He further stated that the people of South Africa want action, they want solutions, and they want the government to work for them.

The Freedom Charter asserts that all people shall be entitled to take part on the administration of their country. This speaks to the core of what the ANC stands for, as the movement of the people, for the people and by the people. Indeed, the people shall govern. The Government Communication and
Information System, GCIS, has a constitutional mandate to ensure that it empowers the South Africans with government information that is timely, accurate and accessible. Equally, through GCIS and Media Development and Diversity Agency, MDDA, our people must have open channel for communicating their needs and their views with the government.
It is against this background that we welcome an allocation of R750 749 million to the department in 2023 financial year, and foreseeable upward adjustment of R282 847 million in 2024-25, R816 429 million in 2026-27. While we believe that this
allocation will enable the department to carry out its mandate, we also believe that due to important nature of its
task and magnitude of its scope of operation, the department

needs to be allocated more funds. Hon members, lest we forget that the department has a responsibility to ensure that, the work of the government broadly is known and understood by the people from all walks of life.

Ideally, information dissemination by the department should be

packaged in all the official languages, and even in brail, to accommodate those who are virtually impaired in our society.
It must also reach all the areas of the society, so more to

the peripheral and the rural areas, where most people still rely on traditional forms of communication, namely, print and
radio. This, therefore, gives impetus to the call we are making in the House and in the portfolio committee to say that various departments must contribute a certain portion of their communication budget to GCIS, as an official co-ordinator and distributor of the government information.
However, Chairperson, we are alive to our reality of the constrained national fiscus. We urge the department to stretch its budget to ensure that it is used more effectively and efficiently, as it is spread across its three programmes.
Programme 1 has been allocated R199 million, Programme 2, which is content, proceeds and dissemination, which has been
allocated R428 million and Programme 3, which is receiving R123,7 million.

Hon House Chair, we are encouraged by the department’s commitment to continue to focus on providing and facilitating
strategic government’s communication, as well as facilitating active citizen’s participation by rendering core communication
activities and driving key national campaigns. One of those is an ongoing campaign around the Economic Reconstruction and
Recovery Plan, ERRP. To this effect, the GCIS through the

economic cluster, Treasury, T, is implementing the communication strategy on the Economic Reconstruction and
Recovery Plan.

The strategy includes the media tower’s opinion, government communication, GC’s, media briefings, interviews, the development of video clips and infographics articles various
information product means of communication, especially, around brandings. These has been the running since the launch of ERRP and it aim to profile and communicate programmes and the milestones that the government has reached in response to the
country’s needs to economic recovery and reconstruction, post the dire consequences of COVID-19.

As communication advances through the use of modern-day software and application, it is important that leaders also
move with times and are agile to new technologies. Therefore, as the ANC, we are pleased with the work that the GCIS has
been doing, to capacitate mayors, councillors, government administrative support and communicators in government
entities and executive commissioners across the country.

 

This training focussed on areas such as the government

communication policy, communication strategising, digital and social media, crisis communication, government corporate
identity, customer care, public speaking and media engagement amongst other things. The 34 sessions were attended by roughly, 1 609 participants, and we believe that the skills imparted to them will help them to better serve their communities, and in doing so, allow the dialogue to take place
within those who serve on numerous service delivery related issues, so as to better their living conditions.

I would like to encourage our government to be steadfast in

addressing the immediate challenges that our people face daily, Also, the work that the government is doing to address
this in partnership with social partners, organised business,

labour and civil society. Our economy needs to be responsive to these challenges. The ANC believes that the GCIS should
carry out messaging which are messaging who we truly are as a people, united in our diversity, a country with a great
potential for investment.

 

We welcome the initiative that the department has taken with Brand SA as well as SA Tourism, to market South Africa as a
preferred destination for investment, trade and tourism,

through communication support that GCIS provides to the annual SA Investment Conference, SAIC, and through videos, the media
towers and social media platforms. Furthermore, we commend the role that GCIS plays in working with other departments to communicate the benefits of the African Continental Free Trade Agreement, AfCFTA, which has the potential to bring much needed trade and investment opportunities to this country.
This is done by implementing the national communication strategy framework and ensuring that there is conducive communication environment for promoting investment and tourism. We also implore the department to strengthen its
government rapid response system, namely, to deal with fake news and information. The ANC will support this budget.
Thanks.

Ms N W A MAZZONE: Mr Chairperson, Madam Minister, firstly let me start off by offering my deepest sympathies to the Bodlani family, who have suffered a very sad loss. The power of the propaganda machine: We live in a time of great uncertainty in our country. We are rocked daily by yet another scandal that would see governments of other countries ousted. Yet, we see corruption, scandal-after-scandal and nothing being done.

We witness poverty - the poverty index spiraling out of control. We see the cost of living now at a point of dangerous levels. We see the world’s finest governor of an independent SA Reserve Bank having no choice but to increase the repo rate regularly, to ensure that inflation doesn’t simply drown our country. We see health services deteriorate to deadly levels.
We see children drowning in pit toilets. We see postal service in provisional liquidation. We see an international diplomatic disaster causing our county to be viewed yet again as a pariah of the international community. We drive on Swiss-cheese style roads due to lack of maintenance. We have water outages on a daily basis, for weeks at a time. And most notably, we are in the midst of the worst electricity crisis we have yet seen.
However, pick up any material produced by GCIS and you would think that we live in a paradise state, with functional departments, problem free living and nothing could be further from the truth.

I must point out that our budget briefing from GCIS was presented to us only this morning. A complaint we heard over and over again was that a much higher budget was required for this particular area of government. Someone really need to explain to me, given the fact that people are dying of hunger, that we have no electricity and no water. Children are learning under the trees; they are dying in pit latrine toilets. Women are dying in labour every day. How dare a department that is nothing more than a propaganda machine for a governing party ask for more money?
As this comes from someone who loves her country, but is ashamed of its government. I say this again: The power of the propaganda machine. A propaganda machine is very dangerous machine, and I am afraid that GCIS has become nothing but a mouthpiece for the ANC spouting out useless information, pivoting and spinning better than any rendition of a ballet I have ever seen.

I remember a time when GCIS would provide Members of Parliament, MPs, with copies of their propaganda newspapers to hand out in constituencies. At least that complete waste of money and exercise in futility is over. Although, I am certain the certain constituencies still receive this junk mail as the ANC dare not give out that tender.

Something has to be addressed urgently in the fact that more and more we are seeing on social media, the so-called parliamentary offices, have tablecloths with ANC logos on them. People think they are going to a parliamentary surgery as it is known. But, it is actually an ANC workshop activity.

Parliament TV is becoming increasingly selective in what is shown, and I have my doubts as to whether this speech will
dare be shown Parliament TV as it is not pro-ANC and I am not spouting ANC propaganda.

I take it upon myself to chat to various MPs when I write a speech. The answer I got about GCIS was very worrying. Most of them said, “What do they actually do?”, “Where are they?” and “What did they offer Parliament?”. This is not a healthy situation.

I have gone onto the website, this is what I have found: Cabinet meetings, which quite frankly, if this is a true reflection of what happens, are sometimes listed. I am not surprised that we have the chaos that we do in the country, given what I read this morning. I found photos of Cabinet Ministers and Premiers all looking very smart.

I found photos of a recent visits that the President had, but nothing substantial about the visits. I found links to government speeches, which were on the whole completely useless to the public unless they fully understood the portfolio.
Most bizarrely of all, I found an actual advert for this parliamentary debate.

GCIS 2023 Budget Vote Promotional video. This actually angered me because it showed a complete waste of money and exactly why, propaganda machines like this department waste public funds and offer absolutely zero benefit to the South African public. This department has come to us and asked us as a propaganda machine, to give it public funds, when it is so obvious that is offers that South African public zero benefits.

If the governing party is that broke that they cannot do their own promotions, it should not be allowed to go through Parliament at the cost of the South African taxpayer. It should find its pocket money elsewhere.

What I do however still receive is the Official Guide to South African Year Book. Let me put this as diplomatically as I can, believe you me: It makes me cringe. It speaks with great pride about departments and the wonderful work they are doing. I ask myself a very simple question: Are you actually kidding me?
The editor, Mr Elias Thibane, I think it is time that you and I sit down and have a very frank conversation about your publication. We must talk about what you publish and why you publish what you do. I have not seen one word about the levels of poverty and the unbelievable untenable cost of living. Not one word! I have not seen one word about children still being taught under trees and dying in pit toilets.

I have seen nothing about the unemployment rate rising and the rapid removal of international investors. I have seen nothing about collapsing municipalities, and the corruption and criminality attached thereto. Member, you should really save your air time, otherwise you are just wasting Parliament money.

I have seen nothing regarding the ever-increasing rate of gender-based violence - just the odd mention of a talk shop here or there. I have seen nothing about the fact that we still have no National Assembly, and almost one-and-a-half years later, our beautiful building that was turned to ash remains a complete pile of ash.
I see nothing about the rise in crime, making South Africa a danger zone that levels out for a war area. I see nothing about the fact that we can now expect a very highly level chance of reaching Stage 10 of loadshedding. If you don’t like it, hon member, please go and speak to your Minster of Electricity. He will tell you about the Stage 10 that we are about to get to – 23 hours per day. Ooh, not a day – 32 hours of the time of no loadshedding. That is not what I say; that is what you Minister have told us! [Interjections.]

I see nothing mentioned about the implementation of the direct

and clear instructions of Chief ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Mazzone, there is a point of order. Could you please take your seat? [Interjections.] Hon Mazzone, will you please take you seat. What is your point of order?

Mr S N SWART: Sorry, Chairperson. Thank you for noticing. Chairperson, I just want to say that this venue that we are in is actually quite small. For the person debating, it is really a disturbance if someone interacts. I understand we do have hackling, but we really cannot have members converse aloud in
this venue. It just doesn’t make sense. People cannot hear you and I think that must be looked into. Please, Chair.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Point of order sustained, hon member. I agree.

Ms N W A Mazzone: Thank you very much, Chairperson. That is what happens when a nerve is touched in a certain way. I see nothing about the fact that the clear instructions of Chief Justice Raymond Zondo regarding corrective steps that must be taken, following the Zondo Commission findings of gross corruption, known as State Capture, are listed in any of the books.

The propaganda machine is designed for one thing, and one thing alone: To manipulate the truth and keep South Africans in the dark – if you will pardon the pun - about the real goings on in government. The elections in 2024 cannot come soon enough. The moonshot election is now our only hope, and the GCIS propaganda machine is absolute proof of that.

Allow me ... Ooh, I am a joke! I am a joke, an hon member says. Well, let us go and read the Zondo Commission findings
and then we will see your name written there. Then we will see who the actual joke is when we meet each other in court. [Interjections.]

Allow me to conclude with the following quote made by Sir Winston Churchill:

Laws, just or unjust may govern men’s actions. Tyrannies may restrain or regulate their words. The machinery of propaganda may pack their minds with falsehood and deny them for many generations of time. But, the soul of man thus held in trace or frozen on a long night can be awakened by a spark coming from God knows where, and in a moment, the whole structure of lies is exposed in trial for its life.

That trial is on its way, come May 2024! I thank you. [Applause.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Indeed, hon members, Rule 82: We may heckle but let us not make it too loud to the extent of drowning a member on the platform. Let’s keep our hackling controlled.
Mr V PAMBO: Hon Chairperson...

IsiXhosa:

...ewe ndikhona Sihlalo, uxolo.

English:

Chairperson, the EFF rejects Budget Vote 4 on Government Communication Information Systems. Today there is not a single sector of society which is not affected by the destructive effects of load shedding.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Pambo, there is a point of order. Just hold on for a second.

Mr S N SWART: Hon House Chairperson, on a point of order: I know, I just want to know. I know that there was a ruling made that if a member is not in the House he or she will not debate except that there is a specific request for that. I just want to make sure if the request was granted then I have no problem. Thank you Chair.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Yes, there has been such an arrangement. Just hold on hon Ntlangwini. I want to
presume that such an arrangement was made. I was informed of his availability on the virtual platform. Hon Ntlangwini, are you making a point of order?

Ms E N NTLANGWINI: There was an arrangement made Chair. Can that member stick to his members, we will stick to the EFF members, please? Can we not be entertained by ... [Inaudible.]12:22 – 14:59 party here please.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Ntlangwini, I have already ruled on that. Can you continue hon Pambo?

Mr V PAMBO: Thank you very much, Hon House Chairperson. Chairperson, as the Eff we say we reject Budget Vote 4 of the Government Communication Information Systems. Today there is not a single sector of society which is not affected by the destructive effects of load shedding. The Government Communication Information Systems is having known how destructive and prolonged load shedding was going to be, never moved an inch in planning and mitigating the effects thereof and adapting its systems and functions to stop the destruction of load shedding brought by the ANC-led government.
One of the primary functions of having a platform such as the Government Communication Information Systems ought to have been ensure that there is uniformity in the manner that the government communicates its decisions, plans and how it responds during times of crisis. The Government Communication Information Systems has been caught sleeping during key moments over the past two years such that we do not know what the government’s position on a number of issues are. For instance, are we withdrawing from the International Criminal Court or are we not? What is our clear position on the war between Russia and Ukraine? What is the government’s position on the continued – pardon me Chair. What is the coherent government’s plan on dealing with the mismanagement and destruction of load shedding it is causing? What is the comprehensive government’s plan for dealing with crime, unemployment, the ballooning rate of sexual crimes with embedded corruption? This must not be left only to the respective departments.

The Government Communication Information Systems has a central government communication mechanism which ought to give a sense of direction to the way government communicates so as to give confidence to the society that problems are being handled,
solutions are being solved and that our country would not collapse. Perhaps the problem is that the government itself has no plan for any of these issues.

One day Ramaphosa announces that the country will withdraw from the ICC and the next he withdraws. One day he appointed the Minister of Electricity and the next day he does not know what this Minister ought to do. We do not know whether we are continuing investments in coal to avert energy impeding Armageddon or are we sacrificing ourselves like modern day Nongqawuse in our quest to satisfy lobbyist who want to foolishly and abruptly transition the country to uncertain renewable energy regime. This makes the job of Government Communication Information Systems extremely difficult.

Therefore, the Government Communication Information Systems is a window through which we can see alarming dysfunctionality of the state under Mr Ramaphosa. If we have a properly functioning Government Communication Information Systems there would no communication on the government’s plan to end load shedding. There would be little room for lobbyists who have captured government so as to redirect ANC policies to a yet approved renewable sources.
Today, the country does not know whether the SA Airways, SAA has been sold or has been just handed over to a group of private people with ties to the ANC or not. This has been left to Jamnandas department, a department which consistently gives out conflicting messages on the matter. These are key communication messages the Government Communication Information Systems has to be communicating to ensure that there is uniformity and a standardised way of communicating.

Government’s sources such as the Vukuzenzele Newsletter that has the potential to spread the information to all corners of the country have been neglected and used only to give tenders to a disinterested group of ANC aligned tenderpreneurs whose sole obsession is looting state resources. To date, more than 75% young people who are unemployed do not have the faintest clue of what the department is doing to avert an unemployment disaster in this country.

The so-called Thuso Home Civic Centres that the Government Communication Information Systems runs are hopelessly useless for the vast majority of our people. Minister, under your leadership, the department of the Government Communication Information Systems is a shadow of what it once was and is
tragically incapable of restoring our people’s confidence in the government. We reject this budget and we do think that there should be an increase in it.

We do need all the 54 offices that are not functioning because of the load shedding. We need those generators, hon Chair we need those interventions Minister and we need resources to be put in the Government Communication Information Systems as we heard earlier on, today in the portfolio committee. We reject this budget. Thank you very much.

Ms Z MAJOZI: Hon House Chairperson, information and communication technologies has changed rapidly over the past
20 years with a critical development being the emergence of social media. The pace of change accelerates daily and one of the best examples of this is the effect the development of mobile technology has on shaping the impact of social media, across the globe mobile device in terms of the total minutes spent online as they put the means of connect anywhere, at any time on any device in everyone’s hand. Therefore, the dissemination of crucial information issued by the government should be aligned with digital development.
Over 30 million South Africans are now active on social media. Thanks mostly to falling data cost an ... [Inaudible.] ... in internet usage during the coronavirus disease 2019, Covid-19, pandemic. Thus nearly half of the population having increased to 48% from 41% which was 25 million users in 2020. According to International Research Agency Statista in South Africa social media platform such as WhatsApp, Facebook and Instagram have proven to be the most popular in the third quarter of 2021. As of 2022, there were an estimated 41 million South Africans with internet access and the largest age demographic that is making use of social media is people between the ages of 24 and 34. At this age with SA Connect and Universal Service and Access Agency of South Africa, USAASA, Government Communication and Information Systems, GCIS, should be able to provide information on social media and short message service, SMSs, like we did on Covid-19.

Arguable, there is an over increasing need of the government, and in particular, this department to diversify its digital footprints especially to ensure that young people are aware of the various governmental programmes containing employment ... [Inaudible.] ... programmes which form part of the content processing and dissemination. Programmes of this budget the
objective is to take the public aware of the opportunities created by the government through the publishing.
R15,3 million copies of Vuk’uzenzele newspaper per year over the medium-term. Considering that this newspaper is only available in GCIS offices and Thusong Service Centre which does not help young people at all because there is no young person who is unemployed who is able to have taxi fare to go to Thusong Service Centre or to any GCIS offices and receive that information.

Perhaps the viability of this medium reconsidered as the purpose of this budget is to provide a comprehensive communication service on behalf of the government. The mandate of this department stipulates that the public should be provided with information that is timely, accurate and accessible. Therefore, the IFP notes that the word comprehensive should not only be aimed at the content of the information shared, but also the medium and platforms to share the information. We would also like to say that with the pandemic of load shedding and maybe going to stage 10 of load shedding, we hope that there is a plan in hand that there would be proactive that all the production that will be done with regards to the newspapers will reach all young people out
there and they would be able to produce the Vuk’uzenzele, the consideration of the comments made. The IFP accepts the budget. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr W W WESSELS: Hon House Chairperson, the Minister referred to the ChatGPT technology that certain governments use.
However, it’s quite clear that her speech was not written by ChatGPT because if it was artificial intelligence would have acknowledged the complete chaos that they are in certain parts of the GCIS, the inefficiency, the havoc at the Media Development and Diversity Agency, MDDA, and would have addressed the concerns of civil society, especially with regards to the MDDA ... [Inaudible.] ... at spinning away the problems and the inefficiencies of the ANC government, but no spin doctor can do that because nobody can miss the complete failure of the ANC government – nobody can miss load shedding experienced ... [Inaudible.]

The GCIS should co-ordinate communication. The Covid-19 pandemic and the complete chaos and ill-informed regulations by government was an example of miscommunication and the failure of the GCIS of actually performing their real task. Their task is not to spin and to promote the ANC and to think
that everything and to create the impression that everything is well. It is to communicate in such a way that people understand. Did people out there understand the regulations, because aside from the fact that it was ill-informed? It was miscommunicated because different government departments communicated in silence, and they still do. Does GCIS play a role to inform the public out there of new legislation? Of amendments to legislation? Of what is actually going on? Does the GCIS actually promote public participation and play a role to promote our public participatory democracy? They do not.

They do not play a role to inform the public out there of the SA Social Security Agency, Sassa. How many confusion is there of normal ordinary citizens out there that do not understand the changes at Sassa, and social development fails horribly in informing the public? The Post Office is not the Post Office. I don’t know what it is. Therefore, GCIS plays no role, they are just there to say how good government is doing over everybody knows that is not true.

The problem is also that this Minister and this government allows a person of the stature of Mathebula to be appointed as the Chairperson of the MDDA. A person that was fingered by the
Nugent Commission and involved in misconduct at the SA Revenue Service. However, you laugh about it. Therefore, that is the problem, House Chairperson, you pay this government ... [Inaudible.] ... lip service to the Zondo Commission. You pay lip service to the fact that you say that you will rid government institutions of corruption. You don’t do that because why do you allow a person like that to be appointed?
While civil society writes to the Minister, writes to the President and says that there is something wrong here. And then he goes look at the MDDA, which is supposed to be promoting community media, community radio stations, but there is complete inconsistency and biased and people are promoted and given grants that shouldn’t and are not deserving of those grants. However, that is not a problem, but you don’t care about the people out there, you just care about yourself.
However, you are going to lose and the GCIS will not be able to spin a loss of the ANC in 2024, because you will lose the elections.

Mr A H M PAPO: Hon House Chair, I just want to understand because in previous sittings attacks on public servants who are not part of this House cannot answer for themselves. Is that allowed because he just went for Chair ... [Inaudible.]
... and presiding officers said that it’s not correct for members to go and attack of other public servants and people who are serving on government institutions and they don’t have a right to respond for themselves.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you, hon member. Hon Wessels, can you take your seat please. Hon member, your concern has taken, I will look into it. I’ll ask advice from it. I will come with it. Continue, hon Wessels.

Mr W W WESSELS: The hon Papo must go and read the Powers, Privileges and Immunities Act and understand what parliamentary privilege is. Let me tell you Ace Magashule is a thief, he is corrupt. Let me tell you President Jacob Zuma is a thief ... [Interjections.] ... to understand that ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Wessels! Hon Wessels! Hon Wessels! Hon members, if we allow emotions to fly we will end up in a chaotic situation. Therefore, I really want to advice that let’s keep our emotions in check or on the matter at hand I have said that I will come back to the House to explain how it should be. How it should go I’ve taken
consideration the concern of the member who raised the point of order and we will deal with it very soon. However, let’s not allow our emotions to fly high. Thank you very much. The hon the Deputy Minister in the Presidency, you are invited.

The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (Ms N E Motaung): House

Chair, chairperson of the portfolio committee hon Maneli, Minister in the Presidency hon Khumbudzo Ntshavheni, Deputy Minister in the Presidency hon Morolong, members of the portfolio committee on Communications, chairperson and the members of the Marketing, Advertising and
Communications Charter Sector Council, chairperson of the Media Development and Diversity Agency, MDDA, board, the evolution of community radio can be equated with the resistance movement to the repressive, oppressive and discriminatory system of apartheid. During the apartheid years the media was used by the National Party regime to restrict freedom of speech. The media was controlled and almost every content has to be sanctioned and approved by the evil system of apartheid. It is a well-known fact that some of the political activists were banned from media coverage including some of the artists whose music could not be played in various media platforms.
Although this was the case, the ANC was never deterred from allowing its voice to be heard in the struggle against apartheid. It is well-known that the ANC used some of the platforms such as Radio Freedom which is closely linked to the emergence of evolution of the community radio. The Radio Freedom is the oldest liberation radio station in Africa. It has been founded from the 1970s trough 1990s. The Bush Radio, like the Radio Freedom, is also the oldest radio station which was founded by the group of activists and broadcasted illegally in the 1980s. Both these radio stations did not only serve as the platform to raise awareness against apartheid, but also served as a platform to raise consciousness towards its resistance. The apartheid regime banned these radio stations, but this never stopped the ANC from informing and educating our people and the world about repressive system of apartheid.

These two radio stations also served as a basic of a transformation of the media in South Africa towards openness and transparency. The transformation of the media after 1994 can be closely compared with the ... [Inaudible.] ... which was introduced by ... [Inaudible.] ... in the former media more freedom of expression almost similar to our
transformation of media which was never experienced during the apartheid.

We are proud and unapologetic to declare that the transformation of the media is one of the agenda and achievements of the ANC. The ANC is the only party that was able to ensure that there is freedom of expression and freedom of speech. It has, and still, allow anyone to express his or her views in a media without any fear or retribution.
Sometimes it is interesting to note how other parties are make noise about the freedom of expression whilst the direct beneficiaries of repressive apartheid media.

With the victory to liberate our people from the shackles of apartheid, the ANC’s 1991 Jabulani Freedom of the airwaves Conference held in Netherlands, established the key principles that will guide postapartheid broadcasting legislations. The conference resolved on three important areas which have changed and modernised the broadcasting environment in the country, which are the establishment of an independent body to legislate broadcasting, three-tier broadcasting system comprising commercial, public and community broadcasting, a
definition of community broadcasting based on the principles of community, ownership, control and participation.

From starting with noting this ANC government has established a policy and regulatory framework for the community media from 1994 onwards. Community press and newspapers, similar to community radios, were the brainchild of media activist movements and antiapartheid media which were known as progressive alternative newspapers. To this end, media academics Louw and Thomas Selly argue that, and I quote:

In South Africa there was a legacy of development decisions coming exclusively from either government which has served only the whites’ interests or from capital.

This motivated the establishment of community newspapers as a progressive alternative press across the country.

As we look forward to the 30th celebration of freedom in this country, the celebration is interlinked with 30 years of community media and 20 years since the establishment of MDDA.
The South African community radio sector trace its roots back to the Cassette Education Trust project and Radio Zibonele. We also cannot forget the ANC’s foresight role which shaped what we are witnessing today.

House Chairperson, the community sector has over 200 community radio stations, five community television channels and over
150 online small commercial and community newspapers covering different urban and rural areas. These platforms all add to diversity in content, ownership voice and plurality to create an ecosystem of complementarity in inclusivity.

I must further emphasise that after the leader of the society the ANC took over, the South African community media sector is one of the most developed in the world. We are now counted amongst over 100 countries that have three media system, namely, public, commercial and community, which I supported by policy, law and regulations. This ensures that community media are both developmental tool as well as the oppositional or advocacy medium to some specific human rights and communication of information which are democratic instrumental enshrined in our Constitution.
We have also responded to all calls made by the media activists from all over the country where they proposed that community media should be owned by its community but also have access to public sector funds and technology and training. To this end, we have delivered with the enactment of the Media Development and Diversity Agency Act, Act 14 of 2002. A significant progress has been made to provide financial and nonfinancial support to community media. In addition, government has through the community broadcasting support programme spent over R600 million of the sector between 2002 and 2022.

In closing, just like a normal family, community media has challenges related to compliance community broadcasting service license obligations. Payments of royalties to collect societies such as the SA Music Performance Rights Association, Sampra, governance challenges and signal distribution tariff fee.

Regarding the community radio sustainability issues we want to make it clear that we are responding to these challenges. We are also making a call that community broadcasters must comply with heir license terms and conditions which specify language
and news quotas. We will work with the National Community Radio Forum in piloting a peer review mechanism that will seek the development and standardised governance system for community media.

We are amending the Media Development and Diversity Agency Act which will allow us changes in the sector as proposed in the draft White Paper on Audio Visual and Content Service Policy. The Independent Communications Authority of South Africa and the Icasa’s, 2019 community broadcasting services regulation. As part of this support to the community media, we will provide to a legislagitive provision n the composition of community boards and its terms of office to protect government’s investment. With these few words, I support the Government Communication and Information System, GCIS, Budget Vote 4 for 2023-24. I thank you, House Chair. [Applause.]

Ms A H MTHEMBU: Hon Chairperson, hon members, fellow South Africans, it is with great sadness that earlier this year we learned of the untimely passing of comrade Rafiq Rohan, a journalist and a political activist who was a seasoned cadre of the ANC Umkhonto Wesizwe MK veteran.
Comrade Rafiq served 15 years in Robben Island after being convicted of 21 counts of terrorism by the apartheid government. This comrade remains one of many unsung heroes and we honour him for his bravery and for speaking truth to power through his written work. His contribution and service to journalism in the apartheid era and government communications in the democratic dispensation have shaped political reporting and government communication to date.

His contribution to Vuk’uzenzele in the year he spent as editor of the newspaper in the Department of Government Communication and Information System left an indelible mark that continues to tell a story of hope and determination to effort to build a better life for all the people of South Africa.

The digital, physical printing and distribution of the Vuk’uzenzele newspaper remain an integral part of the department’s operations. Vuk’uzenzele is the only national publication that focused on the government’s key priorities with an emphasis on service delivery programmes and various opportunities created by the government.
Whilst communication has largely moved to digital platforms, millions of people, particularly those in our rural and remote areas, still do not have access to digital platforms, therefore, The ANC welcomes the allocation of R63 million towards the printing and distributing of 10,2 million copies of the newspaper over the medium term.

In addition to this, the ANC appeals to the department to facilitate nationwide activations, izimbizo, radio interviews and printing leaflets to mention a few, to inform the citizens of the progress and strides that the government is making, particularly towards addressing their main concerns around employment, crime, and load shedding among other things. This should also provide an opportunity for leaders to interact with those whom they serve, as this will give rise to one of the fundamental pillars of our democracy, that being public participation and fostering active citizenry. Therefore, in carrying out these tasks, we are confident that the
R11 million allocated each year over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF, period towards the intergovernmental co-ordination and stakeholders management programmes will enhance the work of the sub-programmes on provincial and localising.
Gender-based violence and femicide threaten the wellbeing and safety of the many citizens of our country. This crisis needs a whole societal approach to deal with it at its root cause and eliminate it from our society. We can't allow a situation where future generations inherit a South African society that normalises the abuse and brutal killing of women and children. Against this backdrop, we welcome that the Department of Government Communication and Information System has been able to facilitate 90 dialogues in a number of communities across the country on how best we can all join hands and take the scourge of gender-based violence and femicide, GBVF. We call on the department to work with the SAPS, the Department of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities, the Department of Justice and Correctional Services and the Department of Social Development towards bringing the spirit and intention of the National Strategy Plan on Gender-Based Violence and Femicide to life. Government departments must intensify the working relations with civil society organisations and society at large. In doing so, the government continuously needs to track and trace its implementation of the five critical interventions on which the strategy is anchored, they are as follows;
Urgently responding to victims or survivors of gender-based violence, GBV; Broadening access to justice for survivors; Changing social norms and behaviour through high-level awareness raising and prevention campaigns; strengthening existing architecture and promoting accountability and creating more economic opportunities for women who are vulnerable due to poverty. As the ANC, we are pleased to see that an allocation of R60 million over the MTEF period has been made for the media buying programmes in the content processing and dissemination programme.

This will enable processing and drive a national priority campaign, such as the one I have alluded to on gender-based violence. A National drive around an anti-corruption campaign in the public and private sectors and the ongoing implemented implementation of the Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan. These were conducted through social media, community radio stations, televisions, and newspapers, and distributing leaflets and flyers. The intention is to raise awareness and inform fellows South Africans about the government’s progress in dealing with these challenges.
In the year 2022-2023, financial period, the Department of Government Communication and Information System was able to stretch the limited budget and implement almost 2 000 development communications projects through its provincial and regional offices. Through these projects, it reached more than
26 million people through community radios, door-to-door, ... [Inaudible.] ... features, content spread in the local print media, outreaches, dialogues, seminars, malls, schools, taxi rank activations as well as road intersections ... [Inaudible.]. The ANC believes that this budget will further multiply the impact of the department’s work.

As I conclude, as we are heading to the national elections, the Department of Government Communication and Information System is responsible for educating all citizens of this country, particularly teenagers who will be voting for the first time on the importance of exercising their democratic right to vote. We commend the work that the Department of Government Communication and Information System ... The ANC supports this Budget Vote. Thank you, once again, hon Chairperson. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr M R MDAKANE: Hon Chair, hon Minister and Deputy Ministers, hon members, I rise on behalf of the ANC to support Budget Vote 4 on Government Communication Information System. Our support is underpinned by our firm understanding that a budget is a critical instrument, which we can use to advance the transformation agenda in our country and effectively build a better life for all. The ANC remains committed to building a developmental and capable state wherein, and I quote: “Where everyone feels free, yet bounded to others, embraces their full potential, a country where opportunity is determined not by birth, but by ability, education and hard work.”

This is in the National Development Plan. I think members have heard the plan and it is accepted by the NA. The Department of Government Communication Information Systems and its entities, the Media Development and Diversity Agency MDDA, play a crucial role in transforming the media landscape by embracing freedom of expression, fostering active citizenry and encouraging media diversity.

These are fundamental pillars that strengthen our democracy. Therefore, hon Mazzone, ... [Inaudible.] ... it is precisely
because you always try to ensure that everyone participate fully in a democratic process.

The point that ... In fact, you are elected precisely because we fought for the liberation. If we were not there, you would not be here. [Interjections.] Generally, you take it for granted that a large number of people sacrificed everything for us to sit here. Even if you talk and insult us, we always accept it, because we fought for the liberation of all our people – black and white. [Applause.]

Hon member, really, it is precisely because of our sacrifice that you are here. If you cannot acknowledge that, then you will never acknowledge the future South Africa. That is the bigger problem with you. In this regard, the role that the MDDA plays in creating a sensible developmental and diversified and sustainable community and small commercial media cannot be taken for granted.

We are therefore pleased that the agency will receive support in the medium term. These funds will help the MDDA to ensure that it continues to provide financial and nonfinancial support to communities and small commercial media, with the
emphasis on promoting indigenous languages and contributing to community development.

The ANC welcomes the fact that most of the agency’s budget over the period ahead is going to be directed at grant funding or 64 community broadcast projects. This would be in the form of initiating projects and strengthening existing ones, including 18 community and small commercial media print and digital projects.

We implore the department to intensify its focus in ensuring the sustainability of media projects, particularly in communities that are underserved by the media mainstream, particularly the rural areas. I do think that we should agree as Members of Parliament that we must all go out and service the rural areas. I know that the country is urbanizing very fast, but there are still people in rural areas that we must ensure that it is served, Chief Buthelezi. We must ensure that the people in rural areas are served, that there is connection and everything they need to live a better life.

At our 54th National Conference, the ANC resolved that the transformation of the advertising industry is an area that
needs close attention, as international companies largely dominates our store media and digital IT.

The marketing and advertising communication programme has been adopted for this event. The Minister has since appointed a Marketing, Advertising and Communication BEE Council and tasked it with the responsibility of broadening the meaningful participation of African people in particular and black people, in general, women, youth, and people with disability in this sector so that they don’t only consume but have a fair opportunity to equally becoming entrepreneurs within this space.

Implementing this programme, we will help to create a conducive environment that does not stifle economic growth in the sector. We look forward to following up on the work of the council as well as tracking its progress through the onward transformation effort, which monitors and tracks the state of transformation in the sector.

Furthermore, we hope that in future, the GCIS operational budget for provincial and regional offices will increase, as they are bias towards community radio development, community
intervention and it reinforces government communication. It should go a long way towards adding projects that are closest to the people, such as the initiative around the district development model.

We are pleased that, late last year, in Mthatha in the Eastern Cape, the department held a panel discussion to reflect on the progress made on implementation and service delivery. This created a platform for engagement and dialogue between communities and their leaders. We appreciate the effort of the department that was held at ... [Inaudible.].

Before I conclude, I want to make two points. The moonshot initiative is a big dream because ... [Interjections.] Comrade Mazzone, I am saying this because I respect you. [Interjections.] This is a big dream. You know better than myself that a combination of negative liberals, African nationalists and some gads will never form any viable option and it will never work. The tripartite alliance has been tried and tested over many years, almost 100 years now. [Interjections.]
In fact, we are running the country anyway. There are challenges. We accept that there are a lot of challenges, but we are running the country. [Interjections.] Can you imagine one day, you wake up and the ANC is not in power. None of you have the capacity to govern this country. [Applause.] Some of you ... [Interjections.] The Western Cape is the smallest. I am just saying, if we invite you tomorrow to take over because we are out, you will come back to us and beg us to rule. You have no capacity to do it. You have no policies, ... [Interjections.] ... I don’t know your policies. You have no policies, no co-ordination.

That is why I am saying that the moonshot is completely a good dream. It is a good dream, but it is still a dream. Therefore, you must try to avoid doing that. You know that a combination
... [Interjections.] You fail to do that in local government, because it does not work. You are just bringing everyone who is available. It is not going to work and therefore, you must accept that it is going to take a long time for you to become a governing party in this country. It is going to a long time. In fact, shooting the moon may not be impossible. But, good luck. Maybe it will work one day.
Essentially, you will have to wait for it to work. [Interjections.] Thank you very much.

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: House Chair, I had to Google what propaganda means, and I found that it is “information of a biased or misleading nature used to promote a political course or a point of view”. I was confused as to what propaganda was hon Mazzone referring to in the work of the Government Communication and Information System, GCIS. I have learned, however, that in 2020 R127 million was spent on Municipal Energy Resilience Project in the Western Cape with no single megawatt produced. It all went to consultants.

During the 2021 Local Government Elections there were 1 000 youth ambassadors called Walking Bus officers and Blue Dot taxi campaign and so on, but after the elections all that stopped. In any case, what can you say about a party that spent more than R5 million trying to defend the sale of land at Sea Point which was designated for social housing to make sure that the poor can also move closer to their place of employment and place of doing business. They lost the case in the lower courts; they appealed and lost it again. In any
case, that is propaganda. So, I do not have time to deal with that.

What is very appalling, hon House Chair, is that the person who was complaining about noise is the one making noise. It is of course correct when a white man hackles and shuts down a woman but when a white woman is hackled, she has to be protected because they can’t speak. That is what we rejected with the Convention for A Democratic South Africa, CODESA. The minority veto the majority. You cannot use that ... [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON (Ms J Hermans): Hon Minister? Hon Minister? If I may appeal to the House. The previous chair also appealed to you. The venue is very small and not acoustically friendly.
So, when you are hackling, please keep it to a lower decibel. Thank you. Continue, Minister.

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: I thought there was something wrong with misleading the House. Hon Mazzone stood up here and said that the budget of GCIS was only debated in the portfolio committee this morning, and that is not factual. The budget of the GCIS was tabled to the portfolio committee on 5 May. If
hon Mazzone bothered to stay for the full portfolio committee meeting she would have known.

What was discussed at the portfolio committee meeting this morning is the impact of load shedding on the work of the broadcasters. But in any case, you were not there this morning.

Ms N W A MAZZONE: Chairperson?

The CHAIRPERSON (Ms J Hermans): Hon Minister ... [Interjections.]

Ms N W A MAZZONE: I am terribly sorry to bother you, Madam Minister.

The CHAIRPERSON (Ms J Hermans): Please speak to the chair.

Ms N W A MAZZONE: Chairperson, I was in the committee meeting all morning this morning. The Minister is misleading the House by saying I was not in the committee. I was there all morning, and you can check the minutes.
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms J Hermans): Continue, Minister.

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: It is very interesting that she was in the meeting but doesn’t know what was discussed. That is a problem. In any case, hon Mdakane has dealt with the moonshot issue. There won’t be any moonshot elections next year but general national elections. A moonshot is the DA’s acceptance that it cannot remove the ANC from power on its own; it needs to go and call everybody to then be able to confront the ANC because on their own they cannot. But anyway
... You are better in English than me. The synonym of moonshot is longshot, small chance and lucky shot, so what do I say about the moonshot coalition?

Hon Wessels, I thought I was going to have an informative engagement on our commitment to limit government silo communication. That is what the Budget Vote speech was talking about, to say that we are going to eliminate silo communication from government and promote public participation. Our imbizo programme and District Development Model, DDM, oversight meetings are also intended for that.
In the Budget Vote speech we indicated that we are going to have townhall discussions, dzikhoroni, maybe it is because I used the term khoroni ... we are going to have round tables with South Africans engaging on the 30 years of democracy, their impact and gains and the challenges remaining. Having those dialogues is part of public participation and it is firmly on our speech.

I thought I was going to concede to you that part of our Annual Performance Plan, APP, around the work on the online platforms of GCIS is to communicate useful government information like the South African Social Security Agency, SASSA, dates, the Department of Public Service Administration, DPSA, job opportunities, the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition, DTIC, and any other opportunities that arise from government, but when you started to confuse the findings of the Nugget Commission and the Zondo Commission I then gave up.

Hon Majozi, I really appreciate the concerns you have raised about the circulation and distribution of the Vuk’uzenzele. If you have other suggestions of where we can circulate more, we would appreciate that and act on it so that the message of Vuk’uzenzele could then reach our people.
Perhaps it is because he didn’t have proper network connection to participate here. Hon Pambo, I do not know why you want to go back and talk about the Rome Statute. We have clarified the government position on that. The government remains a signatory of the Roman Statute in this country. In case you missed it, because our country is always bound to focus on negativity, our position on neutrality around the Ukraine and Russia war is that we have said we want to seek peace. The President has announced today that he has made calls to both President Vladimir Putin and President Zelenskyy impressing on them on a negotiated settlement, and also the Ukraine and Russia Africa peace initiative as part of the African countries that are availing themselves to facilitate peace.
The two presidents are going to revert to us so that we can then sit and negotiate.

We will not be bullied and attempts to continue to project South Africa and the Brand SA negatively will not succeed because facts are showing differently. In case you have missed it, maybe you were in the House or preparing to come to the House, this afternoon the Statistics SA released the quarterly labour force survey of the first quarter of the year 2023. Let me tell you what they say.
There is an increase in the number of employed persons by

258 000 to 16,2 million in the first quarter of 2023 compared to the fourth quarter of 2022. This is the sixth consecutive increase in employment in this country and that is important to note. Another figure that we need to note is the decrease in the number of people who were not economically active for reasons other than discouragement by 209 000. This is also a significant decrease in the number of discouraged work seekers by 87 000 in the first quarter of 2023. If you check, though youth unemployment remains a challenge, there is also a 28 000 increase in the number of youth unemployed in this country. The sectors that have been creating employment are finance, community and social services and agriculture.

Just to clarify so that nobody claims easy victories, the gains of employment were created in Gauteng, Limpopo, Western Cape, KwaZulu-Natal and the Eastern Cape. So, all provinces are contributing to employment in this country, and for that we will continue as the government information system to communicate the message that this nation is a nation that is hard at work, resilient and attaining progress despite the difficult challenges and the global economic environment we find ourselves in. thank you, hon House Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you very much, hon Minister. Order, hon members. May I take this opportunity to thank the former chairperson for having allowed me to come back and make an announcement on the point of order that was raised by hon Papo.

Members, hon Papo rose on a point of order that it is not permissible to reflect upon Mr Mthembu, a board member of the Media Development and Diversity Agency, MDDA. I undertook to consult on the matter, and I’ve come back with a ruling. In terms of Rule 88 members are not permitted to reflect upon the competence or integrity of holders of public except members of government whose removal is dependant upon a decision of the House. Members may only do so by way of a substantive motion. Mr Mthembu is the chairperson of the board of the MDDA. In terms of section 6 of the Media Development and Diversity Agency Act of 2002, a removal of a board member is dependant on the resolution of the National Assembly, and therefore Mr Vessels was not permitted to reflect upon Mr Mthembu in the manner he did. The member is no longer in the House, I therefore urge not to do so going forward. This situation arose of the current situation that we have of the Mini-
Plenaries. Hence this kind of an arrangement. Thank you very much, hon member.

Members are reminded that the debate on Small Business Development Budget Vote will take place at 16:15 in the Good Hope Chamber, and the Debate on National Treasury Budget Vote will take Place at 16:15 in Committee Room M46 which is this one.

Debate concluded.

Mini-Plenary session rose at 15:44.

 

 

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