Hansard: NA: Unrevised Hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 28 Feb 2023


No summary available.


Watch Video here: Plenary 

The House met at 14:00.


The House Chairperson, Mr M L D Ntombela, took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.



Hon members, before we proceed with today’s business. I wish to announce that the vacancy, which occurred in the National Assembly, owing to the recognition of Dr M Basoko has been filled with effect from 28 February 2023 by the nomination of Mr E Godongwana. You will recall that Mr Godongwana was appointed by the President as a Minister from outside of the Assembly, in terms of section 91(3)(c) of the Constitution.

The member has made and subscribed the oath in the Speaker’s office. I welcome you, hon member.




The Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the following items that were on the Order Paper and which, in terms of Rule 351, lapsed at the end of the last sitting day of the 2022 annual session, be revived for consideration by the National Assembly.


Allow me not to read them. They are listed on the Order Paper.


Motion agreed to.


The Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the following Bills and Reports that were on the Order Paper and which, in terms of Rule 333 and Rule 351, lapsed at the end of the last sitting day of the 2022 annual session, be revived from the stage they reached on the last sitting day of the 2022 annual session.


Motion agreed to.


The Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the House –


(1) notes the recent devastating floods in the provinces of Eastern Cape, Frees State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, and North West in February 2023;

(2) recognises that on 13 February 2023, the Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Dr N C Dlamini-Zuma, announced the declaration of the national state of disaster to enable an intensive response to the widespread floods in the affected provinces;

(3) further notes that in 2022, both Houses established an ad Hoc Joint Committee on Flood Disaster Relief and Recovery (the Committee) in response to the floods that devastated KwaZulu-Natal, and some parts of the Eastern Cape and the North-West provinces;

(4) acknowledges that the committee completed its work and the report was adopted by the National Council of Provinces and the National Assembly separately on 29 November 2022;

(5) resolves, with the concurrence of the National Council of Provinces, and in accordance with Joint Rule 138, to establish an Ad Hoc Joint Committee on Flood Disaster Relief and Recovery, the Committee to –


(a) oversee the response and implementation of the relief measures by Government in the affected provinces;

(b) engage the relevant government departments and entities to assess the overall impact of the damage, response and relief measures by Government;

(c) follow up the recommendations contained in the Report adopted by both Houses in November 2022;

(d) confer with relevant committees to facilitate coordinated oversight;

(e) exercise those powers in Joint Rule 32 in the furtherance of its mandate; and

(f) consist of 11 members from the National Assembly (ANC 6, DA 2, EFF 1 and other parties 2) and 9 members from the National Council of Provinces; and


(6) sets the deadline by which the Committee is to report to 30 November 2023.


Motion agreed to.




(Member’s Statement)


Mr M A TSEKI: Chairperson, members, South Africa, we welcome the recent announcement by water utility, Rand Water, of the launch of a new mega reservoir in the City of Ekurhuleni, Gauteng. According to the utility, the newly built 210 megalitre Vlakfontein Reservoir is the largest cylindrical and circular reservoir in South Africa, and one of the biggest in the world. At 210 megalitres, the reservoir can hold enough water to fill 84 Olympic-size swimming pools, which average around 2,5 megalitres.

The ANC understands that, in light of the shortage in water supply in Gauteng, which has been facing constant challenges in light of the continual rolling blackouts, the new reservoir will now give an additional 24-hour water buffer for areas that are affected by water outages when pumps in the Tshwane or Pretoria area lack the necessary power.

We are further encouraged by news that Rand Water is planning 13 new reservoirs, with some already under construction. The group said that water can be load shifted between the various systems, which should help during times of crisis. An appeal has been made to other provinces to introduce similar mitigation projects and measures, to ensure that all regions reap similar benefits.


The ANC listens, the ANC cares. Come 2024, [phinda return], ANC!





(Member’s Statement)


Mr G K Y CACHALIA: Hon House Chair, hon Gordhan, Mantashe and Mabuza have been caught with their pants down. In fact, the entire ANC has its rum exposed over the Eskom-De Ruyter affair. The truth is, Mbeki refused to listen to advice that called for investing in the additional power generation and ran the utility into the ground. Zuma and the Guptas treated it like their own spaza shop. Matshela Koko and Brian Molefe had an idiotic freeze on private-power agreements, while the ANC-embedded cadres corrupted the entity on Mr Gordhan and Mr Ramaphosa’s watch.

While Mr Gordhan said that he was aware of the ongoing theft, sabotage and corruption, he now supposedly cannot remember aspects of the conversation of the CEO pertaining to a territorial leader, or rather shamefully refers to the cyanide-laced coffee as the so-called poisoning.

This is what leads us to a place of darkness, not De Ruyter. When a brave man tells the truth and it does not sit well with many, they even point fingers, questioning his mental state – fingers that will point back at how this ANC broke Eskom and how Eskom broke the country.




Luister, mense, wie het ons in hierdie duisternis gedompel? Die duiwel en die ANC is daardie duiwel.




Connect the dots, Mr Minister. Do it now, before it is too late!





(Member’s Statement)

Mr M N PAULSEN: Hon House Chair, the EFF notes the recent utterances by the former CEO of Eskom, Mr Andre de Ruyter, who has claimed that the ruling party is using Eskom as a feeding trough. De Ruyter claims that senior members of the ruling party are part of the group that is milking Eskom through illicit contracts to supply coal to the entity. He further claims that he discovered this theft and he reported it to a particular Minister, who we now know is Mr Gordhan. According to De Ruyter, Mr Gordhan then told him that he must do his work and allow these senior members of the ruling party to loot Eskom.

The hypocrisy of Mr Gordhan would be astounding. For years, he had been claiming to be a clean person, fighting against the so-called elements that instigated state capture in the country. Even his attack on De Ruyter after the interview was hypocritical. Mr Gordhan has been supporting De Ruyter’s distractive reign at Eskom for years, despite all indications that they had employed a very incompetent white man to oversee Eskom.

We see De Ruyter’s racism and incompetence. Notwithstanding, it is the hypocrisy and opportunism of Mr Gordhan that led the country to where it is now, in terms of its energy supply. We condemn Mr Gordhan’s incompetence and his calculated enabling of corruption at Eskom. Thank you very much.




(Member’s Statement)



Ms J TSHABALALA (ANC): House Chairperson, in case I get cut, I will request that my ... [Inaudible.]


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): You are not audible hon member. We will take another member from the Chamber, your line is very bad, hon Tshabalala. Your line is very bad so, we will a member from the Chamber.


Ms J TSHABALALA (ANC): [Inaudible.] ... takes this one, but the statement is that, the new mega reservoir for Gauteng, one


of the biggest in the world ... yah give to my house, House Chair.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Tshabalala, sizawubaya sibuye kuwena nangabe kuyakhonakala [we will come back to you if it’s possible]. Hon Mbuyane, can you finish what is left there?



Mr S H MBUYANE (ANC): House Chair, the DA seems to be fast looking like a party in quick sand but very more deceptive and insulting to our intelligence.



The DA-led multiparty coalition running the City of Tshwane


owes Electricity Supply Commission, Eskom R1,4 billion and failed to pay its December 2022 account.



A leaked report revealed that Auditor General, Tsakani Maluleke found R10 billion worth of irregular expenditure in the Tshwane and suggested the municipality had been manipulating its financial statements and in an attempt to hide the irregularities.



The Auditor General, AG also highlighted a misrepresentation of the financial position of the city in the 2021-2022


financial year. No matter how difficult things are, misrepresentation of finances must not happen.



When another DA’s Mayor of Tshwane decided to resign in the middle of the night, it further pointed to their devious ways of lack of integrity. The DA knows they have destroyed the city and the mayor was an embarrassment.



Good governance for the DA only applies to services they offer to the previously white areas and the substandard services offered to the poor and marginalised.



Audit findings were explicit, clear and unacceptable, that DA has proven incompetent to run Tshwane. Unlike the DA, The ANC listens, the ANC cares. Come 2024, phinda ANC! Thank you House Chairperson.






(Member’s Statement)



Ms Z MAJOZI (IFP): House Chairperson, viable and effective local government represents an important contributing factor


to rapid economic development. It impacts on service delivery which ultimately affects directly and immediately the quality of the lives of the people.



Municipalities are therefore the bedrock of services delivery to the people of our country in the various provinces.



In the IFP-run municipalities, we strive for nothing to stand in the way of services being delivered to the communities, therefore it is without any fear or favour that we condemn any political interference with the running of our municipalities.



The unethical behaviour of councillors and some Members of Executive Council, MECs leaves a lot to be desired in KwaZulu- Natal municipalities. In Nongoma, Mtubatuba, UMkhanyakude Municipalities, MEC for Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs, forced her way into council matters, ignoring the basic principles of intergovernmental relations and separation of powers.



It has become clear that the MEC has set her sights on


IFP-controlled municipalities to render them dysfunctional, despite the IFP leading by the will of the people.


The IFP in KwaZulu Natal, KZN has been recently been vindicated in the interim court ruling on 24th February 2023, where the court concurred with the IFP that the MEC overstepped. We have maintained throughout, that the MEC abused her authority to give her party an undue advantage. The MEC should have known better. Thank you.







(Member’s Statement)



Mr F J MULDER (FF Plus): House Chairperson, corruption has become an essential part of the way politics is conducted within the ANC, which means any credible attempts to address it would require the party to take radical steps to change its culture and the way it operates.



If one revisit Part 1V of the Zondo Commission Report into State Capture at Electricity Supply Commission, Eskom, it reminds us just how endemic corruption at Eskom had become.



If we revisit Part V1 of the report which explains the inextricable link between the ANC, money, politics and endemic


corruption in South Africa, it casts doubt on the ability of the party to address the serious situation.



The ANC has correctly identified the reasons for the party’s corruption problem while the ANC itself as well as President Cyril Ramaphosa acknowledged that money, politics and corruption became essential modus operandi of the party.



This sad state of affairs will not only be fixed by the successful prosecution of cases but either by the governing party showing the will to clean up their own house, for which the chances are slim or, for the ANC to be voted out of office. The South African electorate should register and vote as they never had before and vote the ANC out of office in 2024.



The ANC will be remembered for spoiling their shift to govern between 1994 and 2024 and also for virtually destroying the South African economy, with detrimental consequences suffered by all South Africans. Thank you House Chair.






(Member’s Statement)


Ms A GELA(ANC): House Chairperson, the DA’s overbearing stance on service delivery would make one falsely believe that in the DA governed Western Cape Province, they are doing everything well. Nothing could be further from the truth.



Ten years after the decommissioning of the GF Jooste Hospital in 2013 and the DA’s promise of a new hospital to be named the Klipfontein Regional Hospital, all that is visible at the site is a dusty cement mixer, a dilapidated site office, a small pile of bricks.



Despite R24 million being allocated from the National Treasury to the project since 2019, not a cent has been spent. The response by the DA’s Member of Executive Council, MEC for Health, Nomafrench Mbombo, as to why no progress has been made in terms of this project is simply, “The project has not incurred any expenditure, and funding has been reprioritised”.



Fourteen years after the originally planned start date in the 2018-19 financial year and 18 years after the hospital was closed down. Voting ANC is the only way. “ANC listens, ANC cares”, thanks. [Time expired.]





(Member’s Statement)



Mr L J BASSON (DA): House Chairperson, in the state of the nation address debate, the ANC Premier of the North West Province, Bushy Maape, told Parliament that the North West Province has perfect roads.



So the Premier of North West considers bad roads with potholes as perfect roads?



This indeed was a sad moment for residents of the North West Province that need to travel on the worst potholed roads in South Africa.



The truth is that most of the roads in the North West Province are death traps. We have 19 000 km of roads with only 5 400 km tarred, that carries 80% of the provincial traffic.



Whether you travel from Lichtenburg to Koster, Wolmarannstad to Schweizer-Reneke or the roads between Ottosdal and Delareyville, you have to navigate through the worst potholed roads in South Africa.


No wonder that the ANC-led government now opted to buy donkey carts in North West Province, for residents and even this ended up in a disaster with the donkey carts failing on the so called perfect roads.



Despite Maape’s perfect roads, the ANC has now budgeted R13 billion to fix these perfect roads.



The DA invites the Minister of Transport to drive with the DA on North West Province roads so that the Minister can understand what workers, farmers, scholars, truck drivers, and the public in general, go through daily on these death-trap provincial roads. I thank you.






(Member’s Statement)



Mr N L S KWANKWA (UDM): Thank you very much, Chairperson. The UDM is concerned the dire shortages of government schools for children with Autism spectrum disorder, ASD, across the country. Children with autism often have problems with social communication and interaction. They also have a different way


of learning or paying attention, which requires them to go to special schools designed to cater for their special needs.



However, due to an extreme shortage of government schools, many children with autism have to wait for years in long waiting lists, and start their schooling years later, as some parents cannot afford the available private schools which charges exorbitant prices. This issue has resulted in many children being denied their basic right to education. When you consider, for instance, that autism affect one in every 59 children, having only about five autism schools in South Africa, is a disgrace. This country is in dire need of schools that support learners with disabilities.



In an effort to have their plight heard, the Gqeberha parents who have children with autism, undertook a protest, reminding the provincial education department to create more placements at Quest Schools for Learners with Autism, as there are 133 children on the waiting list at the school, whilst there are only two of the 11 public special needs schools in the province to cater for the autistic learners. The UDM calls on the Minister of Basic Education to prioritise ... [Interjections.] [Time expired.]





(Member’s Statement)



Mr F JACOBS (ANC): Thank you, House Chair. South Africa has been at the forefront of peace diplomacy in Africa as seen by its commitment to peacekeeping and its various conflict resolution activities such as, mediation, negotiation, and postconflict reconstruction. It is thus with extreme sadness

and concern that we note, that our soldiers who are part of the peacekeeping operations, commander Major Omolemo

Matlapeng, and Sergeant Vusi Mabena, was fatally shot in the


chest after their Oryx transport helicopter was hit by gunfire in the Democratic Republic of Congo, DRC, on Sunday 5 February 2023.



It is believed that a single round from a sniper rifle hit both air crew as they were approaching a ridge at low level. Given that South Africa’s largest deployment is with the United Nations Organisation Stabilisation Mission in the Democratic Republic of Congo, MONUSCO), where 1 184 peacekeepers serve, we would urge for more measures to be in


place to keep aircrews safe, especially whilst operating in hostile areas.



We also call on warring parties in the East of DRC to engage and find meaningful resolution to end this long standing

conflict. We send our heartfelt condolences to the family of


Sergeant Vusi Mabena, and wish Major Omolemo Matlapeng a speedy recovery, and thank them for their loyal service to our country. Thank you.







(Member’s Statement)




Ms M L DUNJWA (ANC): The ANC believes in the national minimum


wage as one of the key mechanisms to reduce income inequality. It is an important step in creating a more equal, just and prosperous society, as envisaged in the National Development Plan, NDP, Vision 2030. We therefore welcome the raise of minimum wage for farmworkers and domestic workers by a whopping 9,6% by the Ministry of the Employment and Labour, effectively from 1 March 2023.


The increase will also cover workers employed in the Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP, Learnership allowances, the cleaning sector, wholesale and retail. The percentage increase for farmworkers and domestic workers will translate to R25,42 per hour, whilst the EPWP will be R13,97 for the same duration. The cleaning sector in the metropolitan areas will enjoy R27,97 and the rest of the country is R25,50.



The National Minimum Wage Act was agreed to with the aim of protecting low earning workers in South Africa and providing a platform for inequality reduction. The introduction of a minimum wage in South Africa is a significant labour market intervention that has benefitted about 6 million workers. This significant increase will benefit 892 000 domestic workers who are overwhelmingly women, and 800 000 farmworkers. This is the reason why the people voted the ANC, and this is why they will continue to vote ... [Interjections.] [Time expired.]






(Member’s Statement)


Ms A L A ABRAHAMS (DA): Thank you, Chairperson. South Africa’s infrastructure was not designed for constant load shedding, and the impact thereof has been profound. Earlier this month, the DA mayor, Geordin Hill-Lewis, announced that, between now and 2028, Cape Town will invest around R1 million a year around electricity infrastructure.



As it is, the MMC for Energy, Cllr Beverley van Reenen, added


a further R87 million towards electrical infrastructure maintenance, and to ensure that reliable service delivery continues. This budget will ensure that there is security for staff working in crime hotspot areas during blackouts due to the deliberate under resourcing of SA Police Service, SAPS, in the Cape Metro, as considered by the Minister in the Presidency during the state of the nation address, Sona, debate.



This budget will also maintain the Steenbras Hydro plant, which protects Capetonians from one to two levels of load

shedding, a DA service enjoyed by all Ministers and Members of Parliament who are residing in ministerial and parliamentary villages located in Cape Town. The city is also busy installing generators and inverter systems at the facilities


where the public has direct interaction with the officials, be it to pay bills or renewal of car or driver’s licences.



The first three generators were installed last month, and further 28 will be installed in the next two years. The Western Cape Premier, Alan Winde, in his state of the province address, Sopa, has also allocated R1 billion in response to energy crisis. It is evident that, it is only the DA governed towns and provinces that have a political will and determination to keep the lights on, to get things done and to shield the residents from the ANC orchestrated electricity disaster. Thank you.






(Member’s Statement)



Ms E N NTLANGWINI (EFF): Thank you very much, hon House Chair. The EFF former member of the National Assembly, and now the MMC of public safety in the City of Johannesburg, Commissar, Dr Mgcini Tshwaku, launched the Operation #ManjeNamhlanje [Now-Today.] When the EFF took over the portfolio of safety in the City of Johannesburg, our suspicions that the DA-led


coalition government has collapsed and was failing to clean up the inner-city, was confirmed.



Many individuals in the department were in acting positions. There are no strategies to combat crime, and the criminals are just enjoying themselves. As the EFF government, we are going to demonstrate through Operation #ManjeNamhlanje ... [Interjections.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Order, hon members.



Ms E N NTLANGWINI (EFF): ... to deal with criminals in the CBD, and keep our city clean. We are going to close all the channels that the criminals are using to run away after they have robbed our people. We will also clean the illegal dumping areas within the city. The MMC have also ensured that we will work with the street vendors and traders, to ensure that the

Johannesburg Metropolitan Police Department, JMPD, does not confiscate their stock.



We as the government in the City of Johannesburg, will give our people regular reports to demonstrate that, as the government, we are indeed having the capacity ... [Interjections.] [Time expired.] Thank you.





(Member’s Statement)



Mr F D XASA (ANC): Thanks, Chairperson. The ANC supports ... [Interjections.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Order, hon members. You are drowning the speaker on the platform.



Mr F D XASA (ANC): The ANC supports the declaration of a national state of disaster by government to enable an intensive, co-ordinated response to the impact of floods that are affecting many provinces in the country. This is to ensure that there is an effective response across all spheres of government to the extreme weather events that have occurred in several parts of the country recently.



It also enables the mobilisation of more resources, capabilities and technical expertise in providing relief, recovery and rehabilitation to the affected communities. The National Disaster Management Centre, NDMC, has, in terms of section 23 of the Disaster Management Act, classified the


impact of current, above normal rainfall in various parts of the country, with Mpumalanga and the Eastern Cape as the most affected national disaster areas.



Recently, the country has witnessed heavy rains with flooded homes, vehicles swept away by floodwaters, overflowing dams and sewerage facilities, to the loss of basic infrastructure and damage to roads, bridges and a hospital in Limpopo. A national disaster may be declared by the Minister of Co- operative Governance and Traditional Affairs where disastrous events have occurred or threaten to occur ... [Interjections.] [Time expired.]






(Member’s Statement)



Mr M G E HENDRICKS (Al Jama-Ah): House Chairperson, when one harms a woman, one harms the very foundation stone of humanity. I address this to you, respected Chief Whip of the Majority Party and other Whips and Madam Speaker, and especially to you, hon comrade Naledi Pandor, on the eve of International Women's Day on 8 March. I plead that you


encourage Members of Parliament to speak out against women that have been falsely accused and imprisoned.



One such woman who remains close to our hearts here in South Africa is Aafia Siddiqui who was deceptively arrested and imprisoned by USA security forces on trumped-up charges. She was nearly tortured to death. We the people that South Africa, through Al Jamah-ah, urge you, through the President and the Department of International Relations and Co-operation to ... [Inaudible.] ... habeas corpus and an assurance sister Aafia is alive and well and that she be released on humanitarian grounds. If we do not make ourselves heard publicly and universally, we'll be partly to blame for the maltreatment of Aafia Siddiqui. Al Jamah-ah calls for the immediate release on human humanitarian grounds of Aafia Siddiqui of Pakistan, imprisoned in America. Thank you very much, hon Chair.






(Member’s Statement)



Ms A GELA (ANC): Chair, Inkosi Albert Luthuli Central Hospital is the next institution to be part of a programme aimed at


improving access to transplants for children diagnosed with blood cancer. On International Childhood Cancer Day 15 February, DKMS Africa announced that Inkosi Albert Luthuli Central Hospital is the next institution to form a part of its DKMS State Patient Support in partnership with Be the Match.



DKMS translated from its German name means German Bone Marrow Donor Centre. This pilot programme aims to improve access to transplantation for children in need of lifesaving therapy.

The programme was launched during last year’s International Childhood Cancer Day with the Red Cross War Memorial Children’s Hospital in Cape Town and the Steve Biko Academic Hospital in Tshwane as partnering clinics.



In South Africa, 1 400 children under the age of 14 were diagnosed with cancer in 2020, according to Globocan’s most recent statistics, with leukaemia being the most prevalent. However, information released by Statistics South Africa reveals that the cancer incidence rate in teenagers is not well documented in the country.



Thus far, the progress made since the launch of the pilot programme in the Western Cape indicates that 49 free searches


were carried out for paediatric patients. Matches were found for 15 patients. Thank you. [Time expired.]



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Chair, on a point of order:



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): ... [Inaudible.]


... hon members are about to ... okay, I will recognise you. We have a Minister’s Response from the hon Pravin Gordhan on the virtual platform. I have recognised you, hon member.



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: House Chair, on a point of order: I note what you are saying about the one Minister who is able to respond but I do also want to state that, House Chair, Member Statements are an opportunity for members to bring issues to Ministers and members of the executive and they should be here in the House or on the virtual platform to respond to members.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): I think we need to give them some time. If they are on the platform ... if there is a member on the platform, let’s allow the member to respond, please. Just before you make a point of order, can I please check again whether there are members or not on the


platform? I have mentioned the hon Gordhan. Is the hon Gordhan on the platform?






The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Can we give him an opportunity, hon members? Hon Minister, can you respond?






(Minister’s Response)



The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: Chairperson, in the first instance, several Ministers are involved with the state visit of president Museveni which is going on in Pretoria currently. So some of the people that you might require to respond are tied up with that. I left a bit early to attend to other matters.



Let's come back to some of the comments made by members of the National Assembly. Firstly, on many occasions, I have indicated that we should not trivialise either the energy


crisis or corruption as a tool to be used politically as opposed to cancer that needs to be ... [Interjections.] ...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Order, hon members! Order, please! Go ahead, hon Minister.



The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: Thank you. I was saying that we need to collectively understand that corruption is cancer which we need to fight, and we do that every day in whatever way we can, depending on the evidence that we have before us. Eskom is a critical institution. Yes, criticise one or the other party, or one or other executive or whatever the case might be. The State Capture Report has certainly identified who's responsible for the worsening of the performance of Eskom. We are now in a part of recovery and that recovery is not going to be easy when other forms of corruption continue, and we might call it state capture too as well.



The third point is that there's a difference between political capital being made out of this issue versus credible evidence, which can be placed before law enforcement agencies and the question that all of us need to ask ourselves is, are all of our hands clean? Can all of us say that nobody of any other


political party is involved in any form whatsoever in damaging Eskom’s performance in Mpumalanga and elsewhere? So some members have convenient amnesia when it suits them. We are categorical about our opposition to corruption. We bring together law enforcement agencies and the executives of many of the SOEs so that this matter can be tackled in a much more assertive kind of way but let us also remember that corruption takes place essentially between two key players, insiders on the one hand, and outsiders on the other hand, and the outsiders are either multinational companies or companies that are operating within South Africa itself.



I challenge every member of this assembly to bring us the names of the South African companies who are operating or doing business with Eskom who are engaged in corruption and let's tackle them together and ensure that this cancer, as I have said, gets rid of. We might also want to remind certain members of a recent book published called, The Rogues’ Gallery, which takes us back in history. So let us not pretend that corruption started in 1994. That book records very clearly the kind of history of corruption we've had in South Africa over the years. That does not excuse anything that is going on at this particular point in time.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you.



The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: The EFF, in particular Mr Paulsen, likes to smear wherever they get an opportunity, but they need to look in the mirror, Chairperson ... [Interjections.] ...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you, hon Minister.



The MINISTER OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: ... [Inaudible.] ... with


the DA in various municipalities.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Minister, thank you very much.






The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): What's your point of order, hon Natasha?



Ms E N NTLANGWINI: House Chair, on s point of order: It would have been relevant if you would have given me the point of order before your king Pravin had responded. Now, we are


taking our time as Members of Parliament to formulate these Member’s Statements of our constituencies. The Programme Whip is the hon ... she is sitting there in bright yellow; she presents at the Programming Committee every week.



So for Ministers not to be here is uncalled for. We have constantly shown you under the Presidency of Mr Cyril Ramaphosa ...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you very much, hon member.



Ms E N NTLANGWINI: ... not taken their work seriously ...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): You have made your point.



Ms E N NTLANGWINI: ... and we have given them time now to log on, I don’t know who ... [Interjections.] ...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you, hon member.


Ms E N NTLANGWINI: ... because they were not here to listen


... [Interjections.] ...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Ntlangwini! [Interjections.]





Siyabonga, mama. Sikuzwile





Ms E N NTLANGWINI: ... and for you to protect them is wrong. It is wrong.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Ntlangwini! Hon Ntlangwini!



Ms E N NTLANGWINI: ... [Inaudible.] ... calling me “hey” ... [Inaudible.] ... stand up and calling me “hey’. Let him do it. That some clown saying “hey” I want him and his peers ... to stand up ... and calling me “hey” so that I see him. I will show him outside what I will do to him. He must do it.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Ntlangwini! Hon Ntlangwini! Hon Ntlangwini! Hon Ntlangwini! Hon Chief Whip, I


have noted you. Hon Ntlangwini! Hon Ntlangwini, I have called so many times, but you refuse to listen, really, it is unacceptable that a member should have a penchant for always disrupting the House. It cannot go on this way, Madam. You can’t be doing this. [Interjections.] No, but you must respect yourself first. You cannot go on like this, hon Ntlangwini.

You are totally out of order. I have been calling your name several times, I’m sure 12 times, but you have not been listening.





Hhayi, sicela ulalele Mama.





Hon Chief Whip?



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chair, on a point of order: The matter that has been raised here that Ministers are not attending Member’s Statements I think must be put into proper context. If you say there are no Ministers on the virtual platform that is ready to respond to Member’s Statements. It is part of our hybrid session and Rules that Ministers can log in on virtual or they can come here physically. Therefore, they are not forced to be here


physically. They can also log in like you, hon members on the virtual platform. I’m, therefore, saying it must not be a question that they are virtual. So what is needed here is for them to respond to Member’s Statements which I think they are going to do. Thank you.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you very much, hon Chief Whip. Hon Chief Whip of the Opposition?



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: House Chair, on a point of order: I rise on Rule 32 of the National Assembly Rules around Member’s Statements and the purpose of Member’s Statements.

All we are asking is, no one is saying that the Ministers are wherever and, therefore, can’t connect anywhere. What we are saying is that we are proceeding with the proceedings of the House.



You asked where are the Ministers to respond to Statements. You waited for a long time until Minister Pravin Gordhan said he was going to raise his hand. House Chair, it cannot be that our business in this House is hobbled by the inability of the executive to attend to their parliamentary business, and I ask that you please speak to the Leader of Government Business – whoever they may be – that this cannot be repeated.


The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you, hon members. Yes, it is true that in case of Ministers and Deputy Ministers do not attend a session of this nature, it will be a problem but at the moment, hon members, we don’t have a problem because Ministers are responding. We are awaiting the hon Sibongiseni Dhlomo. Hon Dhlomo?









(Minister’s Response)



The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: House Chairperson, firstly, we will have to investigate the issue of the GF Jooste Hospital in the Western Cape because of what was raised by the hon ... [Inaudible.] ... from National Treasury, and there has not been any expenditure thereof ... [Inaudible.] ... and we need to actually follow up and check on that.



Secondly, it is actually true that we have to up our game as the department, not only to focus on the adult cancer but also


childhood cancers they are actually a big problem in the country. Hence there has been this innovative establishment at a children’s hospital in Cape Town, the second one is in Steve Biko and the third one to be opened at iNkosi Albert Luthuli to improve and accelerate the childhood cancer treatment and that is what we are actually working on. And we are grateful that hon Gela raised the matter as one of the issues that we are expected to do and we continue to do. Thank you very much, Chairperson.






(Minister’s Response)





(Mr A Botes): Hon Chairperson, let me start by confirming that Dr Pandor, the Minister of the Department of International Relations and Co-operation, Dirco, is obviously anchoring with the number of other Ministers ... the visit of a very strategic bilateral partner of South Africa. So, apologies for that.


Chairperson, my response is on hon Jacobs, who actually spoke about the critical nature of the peace and security architecture in Africa; and he drew, in particular reference, to the ongoing conflict in the Democratic Republic of Congo, DRC.



We have raised it during the debate on the state of the nation address that it is probably fit that Sergeant Vusi Mabena, who was the flight engineer, gets the necessary accolades for the fact that he lost his life in the course of ensuring the cessation of hostilities, particularly in the DRC.



South Africa are deployed as part of the United Nations, UN, Organization Stabilization Mission in the DRC, MONUSCO. In addition, we are also part with a number of troop contributing countries on the force intervention brigade to ensure there’s a more rapid response from the side of the mandated UN mission in relation to repeal ongoing rebel activity.



As I conclude, as a member of the African Union, AU, Peace and Security Council and as the current Chairperson, occupied by President Ramaphosa, I think we remain committed to implement the one important flagship programme of the African Union, which is the flagship programme on silencing the guns in


Africa. And we, obviously, would continue to be ceased with that matter because it is our submission that the 2063 African Union Agenda that speaks about the Africa that we want, that brings about inclusive prosperity, pivoted on seven aspirations, cannot be achieved without substantive progress on silencing of the guns. Thank you very much. Enkosi kakhulu. Ngiyabonga [Inaudible.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members, the absence of other Ministers to respond to Members’ Statements is an unacceptable practice and should be viewed in a dim light. I want to humbly request the Chief Whip to please note this and ensure that an explanation is offered to the House through the Speaker. Thank you very much.






There was no debate.



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chair, I move that this report be adopted by the House. Thank you.


Motion agreed to (Inkatha Freedom Party, United Democratic Movement, Democratic Alliance and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).



Report accordingly adopted.






(Second Reading debate)





TECHNOLOGIES: Hon House Chairperson, hon members, hon Deputy Minister and Deputy Ministers, hon Chief Whip and fellow South Africans, it was Chalmers Johnson, who was the first to define the intrinsic features of a developmental state. In his book MITI and the Japanese Miracle in 1982, as a state that plays an active role in guiding economic development and utilising the resources of the country to meet the needs of the people the state that uses its resources and state influence to attack poverty and expand economic opportunities.



The South African democratic state seeks to expose the best features of such a developmental state where the state will play a significant role in intervening not only to correct the


market failures in the economy, but to drive development and economic inclusion in the interest of the poor and the marginalised.



Today’s, second reading of the Postbank Limited Amendment Bill represents a significant milestone in our legislative endeavour to construct such a developmental state. We seek through this amendment to expand financial inclusion and competition in the banking sector and to provide accessible and affordable banking services to the unbanked, the poor and the marginalised in our society. This is a journey whose footsteps can be traced back to 2010 when the SA Postbank Limited Act 9 of 2010 was promulgated by this Parliament paving the way for the separation of the Postbank from being a division of the SA Post Office to being a separate legal entity with its own governance structure.



And so, contrary to the assertions by many opponents of this Bill, this Amendment Bill does not seek to establish a new bank as the Postbank has already been in existence since inception as a division of SA Post Office, Sapo, and after its incorporation in 2010 as a new separate legal entity.


What we are seeking to do, House Chair, is to achieve through this amendment to resolve two critical dependencies, which constitute legislative conflict. On the one hand a conflict between Companies Act and the Banks Act. And on the other hand to resolve the conflict between Postbank Act and the Banks Act. And to finally conclude the banking licensing application process by making provision for a bank controlling company in line with section 43 of the Banks Act. The exercise is critical to conclude a process, which began in 2011 when the Postbank was granted approval by the SA Reserve Bank to transition into a licence bank and to acquire visa status.



The actual lodgement of a fully-fledged banking licence application process by the Postbank began in September 2013 when the formal application was submitted to the SA Reserve Bank in terms of section 12 of the Banks Act, which authorisation was finally granted in 2016 following a stringent and rigorous process. The authorisation enable both the incorporation of the company with Companies and Intellectual Property Commission and the actual lodgement of the final stage for the full banking licence application process in line with section 16 of the Banks Act.


What is the rationale for the bank controlling company? Section 43 of the Banks Act requires that the bank controlling company must be registered to exercise control over any bank. This Business co-operation contract, BCC, is therefore quire to be the shareholder of reference for capital adequacy. The implication is that the BCC will step in to capacitate and support the subsidiary bank if it runs into liquidity difficulties. And so, given the high capital adequacy requirements for the BCC, it was therefore untenable for Sapo to remain the direct shareholder of the Postbank as currently prescribed by the Postbank Act given the financial challenges that Sapo is experiencing.



So, given the concerns identified an alternative appropriate reporting structure of the Postbank had to be determined to mitigate against financial risk associated with Sapo. Various BCC options were considered to determine the optimal options, which involved assessment of the cost implication by independent auditors. It was ultimately decided that this BCC has recommended in the Amendment Bill should be the preferred one.



Hon members, consistent with the vision of the developmental state, it is our intention to transform the Postbank into a


state bank that provides a full declare of banking services, which includes, but not limited to deposit taking and responsible credit facilities to the poor and underserved poor communities and to provide banking services to the entirety of government. Many of our people today remain excluded from financial services. And therefore, it is our duty as a democratic state to expand financial inclusion and to promote competition in the banking sector. Although the structural separation between the Postbank and the Post Office has been proposed, in order to manage interdependency of the two entities it will remain the functionally integrated through sharing of infrastructure, which extends to the rural parts of the country.



In conclusion, we wish to emphasise that this is not a restructuring Bill as opposed to being a banking and finance Bill in that it mainly provides for the transfer of the shareholding of the Postbank from the SA Post Office to government and the creation of the bank controlling company.



As a Ministry and as a department, we have fully participated throughout that alterations and deliberations undertaken by the portfolio committee and we therefore fully support the


current draft Bill that is before the National Assembly. I thank you.



Mr B M MANELI: Hon House Chairperson, hon members, Ministers and Deputy Ministers, committee support staff, fellow South Africans, I rise before this National Assembly as one of the Houses of the people’s Parliament that the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa has adopted in 1996 and joins its members to ensure, amongst others, that the public has not only have access to its Chambers, but ensure that the public participates in legislative processes of the Republic. This SA Postbank Limited Amendment Bill presented today is therefore a product of this internalised understanding of participatory democracy that the Constitution expects of the people’s Parliament.



The SA Postbank Limited Amendment Bill was tabled in Parliament and referred to the Portfolio Committee on Communications and Digital Technologies tagged by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill as per 17 May 2022 published in the announcements, tablings and committee reports, ATCs. The Bill seeks to amend the SA Postbank Limited Act 2010, to amend and insert certain definitions, to further amend the objects of the Act, to facilitate the transfer of


shareholding from the SA Post Office (SOC) Ltd, to government and creation of a bank controlling company, BCC, the Postbank (SOC) Ltd in terms of the Banks Act of 1990, which would provide for the appointment of the chief executive officer and the chief financial officer, and provide for matters connected in addition to that.



The committee met on 31 May 2022 and got a briefing from the department on the Bill and advertised in all official languages, a call for public submissions on 24 June 2022, with the 25 July 2022 as a cut-off date for submission. As stated in the committee report before this National Assembly, only one submission from the Congress of the SA Trade Unions – Cosatu, was received by the 25 July 2022.



The committee needs assessment on the need for broader participation, extended time for submission a number of times with 4 October 2022 as the very last day for submissions which resulted in additional submissions – submissions from the organisations as I would go through them. The public hearings were held on 25 October 2022 where these organisations were submitted before the committee by making oral submissions and were all supportive of the Bill. And these submissions can be summarised from the ombudsman. They undertook to everything I


their power to assist the Postbank on its journey and hoped the process will be finalised as soon as possible to enable the Postbank to serve the larger South African banking population successfully.



The Right2Know campaign supported the Bill but raised a number of concerns about structuring of the shareholding and authority to appoint the BCC governance structures. The Banking Association South Africa, Basa, welcomed the ... [Inaudible.] ... conclusion of this Bill so that Postbank can begin to build its brand amongst citizens. The Bill will enable it to comply with the Banks Act Regulations in assisting to obtain the full licence from the Reserve Bank.



The Prudential Authority would provide the necessary oversight to ensure that depositors would be protected and together with many regulators would play a prudent approach to deposit- taking and lending as collective to ensure that other people’s money entrust to the Postbank could be paid on time and in full. Proposals on governance structures are raised. And in conclusion, as one of their members, they wanted to see Postbank succeed and compete openly in the banking industry.


The Financial Sector Conduct Authority, FSCA, supported the Bill. However, FSCA proposed alignments of definitions of financial services to other legislative prescripts to avoid uncertain and unintended consequences for the Postbank. The Congress of SA Trade Unions, in support of the Bill, submitted that the SA Postbank Limited Amendment Bill would lay a foundation for the operationalisation of the Postbank. It will help workers and the marginalised access banking and financial services. With its symbiotic relationship with the Post Office, the Postbank will help to repivot, stabilise and grow the Post Office and ensure disadvantaged communities can once again access and rely upon its services. The Bill is a welcome step forward in building a state bank aimed at consumers and the small, medium and micro-sized enterprises, SMMEs.



The Congress of the SA Trade Unions indicated that whilst supporting this long overdue and progressive Bill to meet its developmental objectives, then government must give the necessary support, including recapitalisation and the appointment of competent management for the Postbank and Post Office to grow and to thrive. Equally, government institutions need to support the Postbank as a preferred institution for government banking needs.


In the 48th ANC national conference, O R Tambo emphasised the role of public participation and ensuring the people’s Parliament, and I quote:



In this context, we considered it important that decisions of the ANC were to be shaped by popular mass endorsement at all times. Even if such decisions were acceptable within the movement, they would have come to naught unless they enjoyed popular support beyond the bounds of the ANC itself. Whilst our policies were in terms of our beliefs and convictions, they also reflected and served the people`s interests. Above all, we sought to make the people part and parcel of our decisions.



There is no doubt that the committee meeting of 1 November 2022 where the department adequately responded to concerns and proposals made in the public hearings, and the joint meeting with the Standing Committee on Finance on 16 November 2022 which clarified to those who were still in doubt about the fact that the Bill is a matter of this committee and not the Standing Committee on Finance were all about giving the true meaning of O R Tambo ever-relevant perspective on people’s Parliament.


In conclusion, it is worth mentioning for purposes of record that the committee worked under the consistent legal guidance of Parliament legal service and the state law advisers’ office to ensure legal compliance at every stage of the Bill. This Bill therefore is presented before this House for adoption having noted all the views of political parties and it is indeed a step in the right direction in terms of petting the state bank to operate. And of course I do know that the hon Molala still has more to save on the time that I leave for him. I thank you, Chair.



Ms D KOHLER: Chairperson, the South African Postbank Limited Amendment Bill is catastrophic. It is generally accepted that the only reason this move is being made is that it was announced in 2017. The ANC insisted that the government established a state bank. That was just a week after the Postbank filled its application for a commercial banking license with the Reserve Bank. And the ANC gave the Reserve Bank six months to achieve this. Six months in the ANC’s parlance means six years. And here we are, all because delegates to an ANC congress ordered the ANC-led government to do as they instructed.


The then Minister Cwele said they wanted it done tomorrow, and that the ANC had actually resolved to do this, ten years previously. So, 16-years ago it was mooted. And since then, the post office has gone into a financial nosedive, as has the Postbank. But still a populace demanded a congress. It’s been brought for debate in this House. And here I stand, but everyone in this Chamber knows, it should be global finance expert Dr Dionne George of the Portfolio Committee On Finance, who is debating this in my stead, a Banking and Finance Bill.



I have checked through the various members of the current communications committee and our collective expertise in finance could fit in a tea cup. Out of which, the collective expertise in banking could fit into a teaspoon with room to spare. I raised this again and again but once the ANC has the bit between its collective chief, they will push on no matter what the consequences.



No matter what the VBS Mutual Bank debacle and that it left such a trail of utter disaster and despair behind it. No matter that every other state-owned entity is bankrupt, they will press on against all good sense and judgment. This move will further bankrupt the catastrophic post office to which it is joined by legislation. So, we are talking about two


entities here, the post office and the Postbank, both of which received the worst possible audit outcomes disclaimers.



In the Postbank case, a second consecutive disclaimer, the Auditor-General, AG, has threw her hands in the air and said they couldn’t even give an opinion because there was no evidence in terms of where the money was, where it came from or where it was going to. And this was the entity the ANC determined must be expanded into a state-owned for which reads: “ANC-owned bank”. Let me repeat, it is currently so dreadfully managed. The AG was completely stumped.



On not one single occasion, as we processed this Bill to cut this non-performing mess from the other non-performing mess, so can be declared a full bank. Or any relevant questions asked by the ANC that categorically refused to move it to where it should have been processed to the finance committee. And it’s been like sitting through a rerun of the Titanic.

Sadly, it is obvious that by leaving it under a committee that knows zero about banking, it is presumed that our oversight will be tippet to say the least.



Of all the cynical decisions taken by this government before, during and after the Zondo Commission of Inquiry, this has to


be one of the most self-serving. As it stands, the Postbank currently has a rather limited operation for which - let me repeat, it received a disclaimer and has to be expanded to provide a full switch of professional financial services, including loans.



The proposed Bill, it seems, attempted to create a fully- fledged bank that operates outside of the prudential regulations that are applicable to other banks. There are many who are saying there is no way that Postbank would be given a banking license, and it will fail to pass the Reserve Bank’s tests in terms of integrity, skills and capital systems. We have seen this movie before with the ANC destroying the scorpions creating wishy-washy legislation that ended up back in court twice, but no lesson was learned.



The separation of the Postbank as a subsidiary of the South African Post Office, SAPO, brings about a further decline to what’s already a bankrupt entity which brazenly steals members and pensioners’ contributions to medical aid pensions and the like, just to keep going. A little bailout announced last week won’t even begin to meet the outstanding Bills and the Hawks investigation into the matter is now going to the National Prosecution Authority, NPA. The Postbank already has a


terrible reputation with mass looting of the SASSA grants, R18 million in three months. And that’s just one example.



Sadly, the rand and dollar signs flashing in front of the ANC’s eyes at the thought of a new avenue to loot is seriously enticing. I’ve met with various investigators into corruption at the Postbank who spelled it all out to me chapter and verse on how the looting is being done. The bank is already hiding information. It has enormous amounts simply unaccounted for.

And yet, the ANC are forging ahead towards this iceberg forcing this House to allow it to become a stand-alone bank consequences be damned.



In a single year, fraudulent losses quadrupled at the Postbank from R20 million up to R80 million. This is patently a Money Bill. We have seen no proposed budget, and have no idea where the branches would be as the post office branches close one by one. It looks to cost the state a fortune to establish. But the order has gone out to pass it and do it now. The DA hasn’t abandoned the ship it chose never to buy a ticket for and it never will. Thank you.



Ms Y N YAKO: Chairperson, please allow me to begin by greeting the president and commander in chief Julius Malema of the


Economic Freedom Fighters, who today presided over the EFF’s 10th anniversary media launch, as we approach the 10th anniversary of the only weapon in the hands of black people to achieve economic freedom in this lifetime.



The South African Postbank Limited Amendment Bill before the House today is only possible because the EFF introduced the Banks Amendment Bill. Before the introduction of the Banks Amendment Bill as a Private Member’s Bill, state-owned companies were not permitted to apply for a fully-fledged banking license. We know that the ANC does not believe in state banks, does not believe in interfering with business of white monopoly capital, does not believe in empowering a black government to stand on its own. We know that the idea of a state-owned bank goes against anything that the current leadership of the ANC believes in.



The Minister of Communications and Digital Technologies Ms Khumbudzo Ntshaveni, came to the state of the nation address, Sona, and demonstrated that she does not understand why we need a state-owned bank. She thinks that we want a state bank so that we can finance spaza shops. This is serious ideological bankruptcy. We want a state bank because South Africa’s banking sector is dominated by the country’s five


largest banks. Which collectively holds more than 90% of the total seven trillion in assets of this country.



We want a state bank because the current banks that are owned and controlled by apartheid beneficiaries, - and control our lives, decide who can buy a house, a car, food, clothing, education and other financial services. We want a state bank because the current banking system continues to exploit workers us and wants to keep us in a severe and inescapable debt trap.



Hon Chairperson, we want a state bank because we want to properly allocate finances to ensure that we build local industries that will create jobs for our people. We want a state bank because the current banks have demonstrated that they are not interested in transforming our financial sector. We want a state bank because we want all government workers and South African Social Security Agency, SASSA, grant beneficiaries to receive their salaries and social grants

[pay-out] without paying exorbitant fees. We want a state bank because we want our people to be freed from the debt trap that will finish them and later refuse to bury them. We want a state bank because we want a bank that will prioritise access


to banking services for our people, particularly in rural areas and townships.



We do not say these things only here in Parliament. This is what our founding manifesto clearly says that:



The creation of state bank and the nationalisation of a Reserve Bank will constitute an immediate task and essential to the development of South Africa’s economy.



This is the only way to finance new industries. This is what Ms Khumbudzo Ntshaveni is failing to grasp. She is failing to understand that we can have a banking system that will provide enterprise finance, housing finance and vehicle finance for all South Africans in particularly black people in a manner that promotes the development to the narrow pursuit and profit.



The financial sector has the capacity to play a transformative role. We would watch the Postbank closely to ensure that even if the ANC is pretending - which it is, to want to establish a state bank, we will force them. South Africa will have state- owned banks whether it likes it or not. We reject this Bill. Thank you.


Ms Z MAJOZI: Hon House Chair, as the IFP we do not support the establishment of the Postbank ...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members, order! Hon members, there is a speaker on the podium.



Ms Z MAJOZI: ... as a separate entity and state bank. The committee, while considering this Bill, raised concerns about: the lack of internal controls at the Postbank, a lack of performance at the entity, whether the Postbank without the SA Social Security Agency, Sassa, grant roll-out will be able to maintain itself, and what other contracts it seeks to attract.



Overall, the committee raised the matter of the lack of performance and worrisome budget spending and expenditure by the Postbank. It has not displayed the necessary growth to fuel confidence in it becoming a separate entity from the Post Office and becoming a state bank.



South Africa currently has several state banks, including the Development Bank of Southern Africa, the Land Bank and many other development finance institutions. We are also facing challenges. We need to support the existing state banks and not put funds into the Postbank which has not adequately


provided the committee with ... how it plans to support itself and turn a profit, apart from retaining the Sassa contract.

Or, is it planning to retain government salaries or future ... [Inaudible.] ... foresee danger?



It gives little confidence, since all of the ... [Inaudible.]


... interest of state-owned entities, SOEs, is incontestable because they provide services that are core to the wellbeing of the country, its people and its economy.



The establishment of the Postbank as a state-owned bank will also have as part of its mandate ... [Inaudible.] However, the government has to stop making purely political appointments and capable individuals must be appointed to run the entity.

Or will the Postbank suddenly gain all new capable staff? Is it not making a profit with the staff it currently has?



We cannot throw money at our problems when the state of the economy is in disarray. We are all aware of the failures of SOEs around the country, from SA Airways, SAA, to the SA Post Office, Sapo, and Transnet.



As the IFP, we see no real purpose in the Postbank being government owned. How will it help the Postbank to separate


from Sapo? It is already struggling with all the resources and help that is provided to it by Sapo. This cannot be allowed to

... another failure of the government which will cost taxpayers money and be another VBS Bank. While the granting of bank licences is a serious matter, one that is often hard to acquire, in instances when such prudent ... [Inaudible.] ... was not undertaken, it has resulted in disaster.



It was reported by the National Treasury’s admission in 2019 that the establishment of such an institution could be a massive liability that the country can ill afford. And, as the Minister of Finance stated last year, the country does not have the funds to inject equity into the state bank.



Even as we face challenges of some existing state banks, one cannot find a true statement ... our SOEs are failing and the Postbank could come back in a few years asking for a bailout. We cannot afford to keep rolling out bailouts.



The IFP does not support the establishment of the Postbank as a separate entity and state bank. Also, to add a cherry on top, it comes with political interference. How will it work as an entity? Thanks, Chair.


Mr W W WESSELS: House Chair, there is no justification for this state-controlled bank. It is unjustifiable. This Bill will place a significant burden on the fiscus. It is not feasible given the fiscal position of South Africa. In 2019, even prior to the disastrous effects that COVID-19 and high stages of load shedding had on South Africa’s economy and state finances, the National Treasury said that the establishment of such a state-owned bank would be a massive liability and that the country could not afford such.



Why is this bank being created? President Ramaphosa said the reason is that other developing countries have such. That’s why we should. That makes as much sense as knowingly allowing a mafia boss into your Cabinet. It is a well-known reality that no SOE functions ... that state-owned or managed anything

... is bedevilled by maladministration and corruption.



The Postbank in its current form is a failed SOE where irregular expenditure rose during the last financial year by R180 million. The Postbank failed to maintain an effective internal system to safeguard the issuing of bank cards to Sassa grant beneficiaries. This led to a financial loss of more than R68 million. Fraud is committed, to the detriment of the poorest of the poor.


This Bill will not address the shortcomings. It will lead to more money being lost, more fraud and more corruption. This will be another bloodsucking SOE which will cause more taxpayers’ money to be stolen by ANC thugs and thieves.



The Deputy Minister says this fully fledged licensed state- owned bank will be to the benefit of the poor. It will not, Chairperson. The government’s true motive is to transfer monies currently administered by private and commercial banks into a state-owned institution where cadres have easy access and can feed at another trough.





Voorsitter, hierdie bank sal nog ‘n gefaalde ANC projek wees wat sy kaders gaan gebruik om hulself vet te vreet. Alles waaraan die ANC vat, misluk.



As lede van hierdie Huis sal elkeen wat ten gunste van hierdie wetsontwerp stem, aandadig wees tot die katastrofe wat gaan volg as gevolg daarvan. Ons kan en ons gaan wel in 2024 van hierdie hele spul ontslae raak. Ek dank u.





Mr W M THRING: Hon House Chairperson, the ACDP is aware that one of the main objectives of the SA Postbank Limited Amendment Bill is to facilitate the transfer in shareholding from the SA Post Office Ltd to the government and the creation of a bank controlling company for the Postbank SOC Ltd.



The ACDP is also not oblivious to the many South Africans who are marginalised and excluded from the benefits of the banking sector which the banking sector has to offer. This is especially so for those in rural areas and small towns living in peripheral areas of society. However, the idea that the solution to the problem of the economically marginalised and disenfranchised in South Africa is a state-owned bank with a developmental mandate that will rescue the disenfranchised from the clutches of ruthless and criminally exorbitant moneylenders, while extending banking services to the unbanked communities, would be worth considering if there was some evidence to suggest the feasibility of success. Unfortunately, that evidence does not exist. We must never forget what took place at VBS.



The ACDP notes that during discussions and deliberations on the Bill, concerns were also raised by the Office of the Auditor-General, AG, about the group’s readiness to become a


fully fledged bank. The AG highlighted worries over security and controls. The AG also raised red flags about cyber security and the Postbank’s then overreliance on the Post Office, which itself is in dire financial straits.



The ACDP is not convinced that allowing for the shareholding of Postbank to be transferred from the SA Post Office to the government, and allowing for the setting up of a bank controlling company — a holding company for the bank — is the panacea to the problem of the economically marginalised and disenfranchised in South Africa. As a result, we do not support this amendment Bill. I thank you.





Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Ndicela uxolo. Sihlalo weNdlu, ncedani nigade ixesha lam.





The UDM does not support the SA Postbank Limited Amendment Bill. You know, the previous speaker spoke about you guys being great pretenders. This is pretence because what you need is a development bank, a state bank that has a developmental agenda ...




... hayi le ntsomi kaMlengana ...





 ... of SA Post Office Limited Bank. Why am I am saying this? You have already cited, for example, earlier, that there is going to be no equity injection into thing.





Ithetha ukuba iza kusebenza njani ke xa injalo?





It will operate on a very small scale like a spaza shop mentality. The very same post bank which lost R77 million from the cyber-attack incident in 2021. You are aware of that. It lacks sophisticated IT systems for a banking institution. The other important issue has to do with – I think recently, even this post office or post bank, I do not even know what to call it because it cannot even send letters.



Recently, there was a backlog of about R350 000 cash send clients awaiting payments since August last year. This was actually said to a Portfolio Committee on Social Development while 439 847 post bank clients were waiting for payments. The


post bank is not even able disburse the R350 of the Special Relief of Distress Grant. It is a disaster of titanic proportions and now we are trying to turn that disaster into a bank that will not operate efficiently and be able to support the people.



You can separate this from the previous post office. Remember the last time that the post office made a profit, I think it was when the former President Mbeki was still in charge of the country. He was well into his second term, most probably and

20 years later you have an entity that continues to muddle along hoping that it will be able to make a profit. Nearly 20 years later!



The other issue for us, for instance is that, obviously when you want to have a state bank with the developmental mandate, you have to be able to draw from lessons from across the globe. Indeed, the Deputy Minister is correct in saying that we should be able to support small economies or rather local economies.





Oomama aba bangakwaziyo ...




 ... to have access to capital should be able to apply for loans of small amounts of up to R1000 to buy stock for selling in their stalls ...





... ukuze sikwazi ukuyixhasa ...





 ... especially the informal sector and ensuring that we fight unemployment by supporting the informal sector. This would be realised through initiatives such as these ones.

Unfortunately, for us we think that it was prematurely primarily because, if I was a senior citizen with a walking stick, I would not even trust this government with my walking stick. Let alone the money. Thank you.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon House Chairperson, allow me start off by saying, let us not confuse what a development bank is and a land bank, to a state bank. Land bank is specifically for agricultural products and things of that nature. The development bank is more for development and not only for South Africa but in the region as well as in Africa. So, the state bank is and I think the intention behind the state bank


– Let us not forget that commercial banks in South Africa borrow from the SA Reserve Bank. So, the SA Reserve Bank takes your money and my money, which is taxpayer’s money to lend it to the commercial banks. In turn, the commercial banks lend the money back to us and make profits out of us. Actually, what the commercial banks are doing is using your money to make money and my money to make money. That is generally what they are doing.



The idea of a state bank is to provide more services particularly to the most vulnerable and the poorest of the poor in the country. I think it should be encouraged all over the world and many countries have their state banks. Now, there is a lot of red tape. You will notice that, even when we get that bank guaranteed loans during COVID-19, out of the R200 billion, only R18 billion was taken. Why? Only because of the amount of red tape that exists. That is the real problem and it is a disadvantage to the poorest and the most vulnerable people. This is where the state bank comes in.



Yes, we will accept that there are a lot of challenges with the state-owned companies, we cannot deny that. In fact, the Minister said that earlier on, when I asked him how much money comes in from the state-owned companies, he hardly said


anything. The question is, do we need a state bank? Yes. If you remember the NFP said a while ago that we need a state bank even where you can provide land, provide housing loans to these people at a minimal rate because you are lending money to these banks at a much lower interest rate than we are paying. So, why not do that and encourage that? So that more and more people can build more homes and that you can have more development in the country. There is nothing wrong with the state bank, we should encourage it.



We need to deal with how we manage it. We need to ensure that it is independently run with no interference so that we have the right capacity, the right kind of people running these institutions and we will not have the problem at all. So, the NFP will support this Bill here today because we believe it is the right thing to do. It is in the interest of the poorest of the poor in this country. Thank you very much.



Mr S M JAFTA: Hon Chairperson, the SA Post Office Bank Amendment Bill seeks to amend the SA Post Office Bank Act. Amongst others, the Bill seeks to transfer shareholding from the SA Post Office to the government. It also aims to create a bank controlling company. As to who will run this bank, at what cost and to whose benefit, is not clear. But we know


through experience that the Venda Building Society, VBS Mutual Bank was run to the ground by key state role players. We also know the recent experience inspires confidence in terms of how state affairs are managed.



The Bill also introduces a shareholding arrangement which will see, as mentioned, our government becoming a shareholder representative of the established bank. We must register our concern around this bank as we know that public entities have been ran down with no accountability. Funds ran by public entities are redirected from public good to serve corrupt public officials. The bank must therefore be listed on the Johannesburg Stock Exchange, JSE and have a competitive board of directors.



We are also appalled that this Bill failed to overhaul the entire post office architecture. The post office needs a massive capital injection to stay afloat. Its business model is outdated and last year it lost R90 million to a cybercrime. It is now laying off 3 000 workers because of these. We cannot but hope that envisaged post bank will serve South Africans and partner with a number of big federations like Premier Soccer League, PSL and SA Football Association, Safa to raise


capital and grow the brand. We therefore, hon Chairperson, reject this Bill. Thank you.



Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chair, Al Jama-ah supports the creation of the state bank. This was an election promise by the ANC years ago. The electorates voted for them and they must now deliver. The important thing that concerns Al Jama-ah is that we feel that the state bank should provide micro loans interest free. Interests of the state bank should not exceed 3%. That would be an economic growth that would be progressive. We hope that the state bank will not charge exorbitant interest rates.



Hon House Chair, in other countries of the world, the interest rate is 1%. Why must we pay 18, 19 and 20%? It is important to assist the disadvantaged communities and the townships who are now getting small business loans and have to pay exorbitant interest rates. We hope that the state bank would come to the rescue and ensure that there will be prosperity in the land.

Thank you, very much.





Mof T BODLANI: Ke a leboha Modulasetulo.




I stand here as a member of the Communications and Digital Technologies Portfolio Committee, tasked by this Parliament to oversee the Post Bank. I say this in my opening point to reiterate that this Bill is sitting in the wrong committee.

This Bill aims to finalise the legal distinction between the Post Office and the Post Bank with the Minister of Communications and Digital Technologies as the bank controlling company.



Unfortunately, there is no recourse in the parliamentary processes to place this Bill in the Portfolio Committee of Finance, which is the correct committee.



Chairperson, this Bill gives the Minister too much power. These concerns were also flagged by an NGO group, Rights2Know. In their submission, they cautioned against the Minister’s power as the bank controlling company, power which extends to the board of the entity, power in the hands of the ANC. Attempts by the department to allay DA’s concerns over these tremendous powers gave us no comfort.



Sesotho: Modulasetulo ...




... under the ruling party, not one, not two, but almost all SOEs have collapsed yet the DA is considered as unpatriotic as we warn against the establishment of yet another SOE which is doomed to fail.





Dikhamphani tsa mmuso tse kang Denel, SAA mmoho le Post Office di tebela basebetsi. Ke mang ya tla sebetsa bankeng ena e nthja? Sephadi se seholo, ke yona potso e ka sehloohong eo.





In the submission on the Bill ...





... Cosatu, e leng motswalle e moholo wa mokgatlo o busang ...





... says they believe that the Post Bank will be active and competitive because of its wide geographic and demographic footprint. What footprint?



The department is unable to keep the Post Office doors open. In fact, the Minister could not explain to the committee what


infrastructure the Post Bank will operate from. We just do not know.





Ha re tsebe.





The department does not know; we just do not know.





Ha re tsebe ka nnete.





The Congress of South African Trade Unions, Cosatu is supporting this Bill not because it is a great business idea or that it will be self-sustainable.





Banka ena e ka se tlise mesebetsi.





But because as a friend of the governing party, the expectation is that government will provide a bailout when this bank fails. Another ANC pet project. No feasibility study


was undertaken to understand the need for the Post Office as a fully-fledged bank.



To save time Chairperson, let me say, with the eminent Cabinet reshuffle, we wait to see if Minister Ntshavheni will be retained so that she can enjoy the super powers that this Bill gives her or if another Minister will be deployed to continue on the downward spiral of the Post Office under this government.





Ke a leboha.



Mr L E MOLALA: Hon House Chair, hon members and fellow South Africans, it is with great pleasure that we ascend to this podium to update this House and the fellow South Africans that the African National Congress is delivering economic development through financial sector transformation. The establishment of a state bank can no longer be delayed. We implore members of this House to pass this SA Postbank Limited Amendment Bill, so as to ensure that we reposition the Postbank to a fully-fledged bank of the state which will be transformative, developmental and inclusive.


Under the current highly concentrated financial and banking service sector, access to finance continues to be a challenge particularly to the black-owned businesses; small, medium and micro enterprises, SMMEs; women; youth and people with disabilities. The requirements are often erroneous and make it difficult to access banking. Hon members, this is not the case unique to South Africa, an example, some of the greatest postal banking success can be found in Japan wherein they leverage the footprint of the Post Office to create Postbank branches all across their country. That has helped to reach millions of Japanese people even in the most parts of the country.



Their integrated management system which include financial resources, collected not only from the postal bank savings but from other sources such as the Public Pension Funds administered in the Ministry of Finance, has capitulated some of their development programmes. This has created synergies in the developmental role of the bank and the country’s national policy imperatives. The Japan Postbank has been able to fund Japan’s economic development without relying on foreign investors. The need for much stronger support of black industrialists and small, medium and micro enterprises submissions also noted the prevalence of poor market conduct


practices and financial inclusion, compromising the potential transmission effect of the financial sector.



A study conducted last year revealed that despite strong financial sector growth over the last three decades, investment has remained subdued since the end of apartheid rarely exceeding 20% of GDP. The SA banks currently account for 120% of the GDP with the five largest banks accounting for almost 90% of the banking sector assets. The Pension and Investment Funds also represent a significant part of the financial system with assets under management of nearly 140% of GDP. The market capitalisation ... [Inaudible.] ...

Johannesburg Stock Exchange listed company illustrate the growth of the financial sector. The study further noted that the growth of the financial sector in South Africa has not yielded higher capital investment.



Moreover, the financial sector has contributed a little to job creation. While the sector managed to capture one quarter of the country’s profit in 2017, it employed only 505 000 people translating to 3,5% of South African jobs. The introduction of new players in the market plays a significant role in reducing the banking fees, as well as introducing different distribution models and launching innovative value


proposition. Our policy positions are informed by the Freedom Charter that states that: The people shall share in the country's wealth. Not only the private bankers.



Since the early 1990s when the ANC adopted the Ready to Govern policy, we have adopted the democratic ... [Inaudible.] ... introduce mechanism to encourage private sector financial instrument to channel resources into the productive investments which the private bankers are not doing today. The evidence suggests that government’s effort to transform the economy over the years have not yielded significant results.

This can be attributed to a large extent to monopoly capitalism and high concentration of banking sector. It was the very same private banks that were reluctant to lend the small, medium and micro enterprises, SMMEs, money under government COVID-19 loan-guarantee scheme.



Notwithstanding, the 94% of risk would be absorbed by the National Treasury and SA Reserve Bank. While we understand that the state bank will not be a panacea for all our economic ills, we do believe that it is an additional policy instrument of any government that is committed to transformation and economically empowering the majority. While the nature of the state bank suitable for South Africa will be unique to our own


dynamics and experience we can still draw lessons from a number of state banks across the globe such as: The Bank of China, the Bank of Brazil, the State Bank of India and others. Since its nationalisation, the State Bank of India has fostered economic development through rural development initiatives; microcredit programmes; financing major agriculture industrial projects, as well as raising loans for government and the poor people.



We are pleased that the SA Postbank continues to sustain a positive balance sheet. The profit after tax as the end of September 22, amounted to R168,6 million which is 66% above the prior year. We welcome the information technology, IT, modernisation programme which has been successfully initiated. We hope to see stronger internal controls and impenetrable IT system that will guarantee the safety of assets and all those who will be using the SA Postbank. As I conclude, hon Chair, I wish to emphasise that it is very interesting that the opposition in this House, particularly, the EFF support the establishment of the state bank but they do not support the Bill.



It is quite interesting that you are supporting the state bank but you do not support the Bill that establish the state bank.


I must also say to my friends in the DA that there is a parable I will use, it is a biblical parable that says: It does not mean that because Jesus Christ was born in a stable He is, therefore, a horse. Should I repeat? I am saying: Jesus Christ was born in a stable but it does not mean that Jesus Christ is a horse. I hope you will understand that parable.

Hon members, this is not ... [Interjections.] ...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): ... order! Order, hon members. Do not drown the speaker.



Mr L E MOLALA: It is with great pleasure, comrade hon members, that ... [Interjections.] ... no, I am not done yet. The opposition has been employing various stalling tactics to try to delay this process. In a similar way they have played politics to delay many other transformative policies and programmes of the ANC. They are hell-bent on maintaining the status quo to ensure that economic wealth remains in the hands of the small minority through trickle-down economics. This is evident by their consistent call to privatise all key entities of the state which will in turn leave the pricing of goods and services to the private sector, only to inflate prices making it harder for the majority of South Africans to survive, particularly, the poor and the working class. The ANC views


the stance of the DA as regressive. The ANC, therefore, supports the SA Postbank Limited Amendment Bill.



Debate concluded.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you, hon member. Are there any objections to the Bill being read a second time?



Second Reading debate – South African Postbank Limited Amendment Bill.



Bill read a second time (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, United Democratic Movement, Freedom Front Plus, Inkatha Freedom Party, African Christian Democratic Party and African Independent Congress dissenting).



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): The Bill will be sent to the National Council of Provinces for concurrence.





Mr G MAGWANISHE: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, Deputy Ministers and hon members, the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Correctional Services having considered the repeal of the Transkeian Penal Code Bill, referred to it and classified by the joint tagging mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill without amendments.



The committee reports further that the repeal of the Transkeian Penal Code Bill, was both introduced and referred to the committee for both consideration and report on 15 December 2022. The committee called for public submissions on the Bill, but received no response to that call. Broadly the Bill proposes to repeal the Transkeian Penal Code Bill of 1983, which continues to apply in the area formally known as the Republic of Transkei and to reinstate the application of the common law and rules in that area.



The code was enacted when the area was formally known as the Republic of Transkei became nominally independent.



Despite the incorporation of that area into South Africa under the new democratic dispensation, in terms of the Constitution of 1996, the code remained enforced until the repeal or amended.


The committee believes that it is unturnable that the code which codified the criminal law continues to apply so many years after that area was incorporated. The people living there continued to be subjected to a different system of criminal law to that applied to the rest of South Africa.



The committee therefore supports the Bill as introduced and referred to it. Thank you, House Chairperson.



Declarations of Vote:


Mr W HORN: Hon House Chairperson, in 1996 this House passed the Justice Laws Rationalisation Act, through which the bulk of laws passed by the legislatures of the former so-called independent states and homelands created during apartheid were repealed. After these laws were kept intact as an interim transitionary measure in the 1996 Constitution, to ensure short-term legal certainty. The Transkeian Penal Code was not amongst these laws which effectively meant that in the area that was part of Transkei until 1994, it remained in place.



House Chairperson, fast-forward to July 2005, when the then Judge President of the Eastern Cape, Justice Khumalo formally approached the Department of Justice, to consider repealing


the code as it was as the request put it not only a relic of the past, but was also most probably unconstitutional.



Given that is to be expected today, that the excuse will be the code was in essence the same as the law that applied in the rest of South Africa, and therefore the people subjected to it all these years were not at a disadvantage. It is also important that in the request the judge pointed out that prosecutions in terms of the code was becoming more and more difficult because the code was at that stage in 2005 already, not always and I use his words, “readily available.”



So what the ANC-led government did in response, well seemingly nothing to very little.



Then in 2015 the Constitutional Court in delivering its judgement in the case of ... [Inaudible.] ... vs the state in another remark follows and I quote:



It is rather odd that 20 years into our constitutional democracy, we are left with statute books clattered by laws, for surviving of a bygone undemocratic era remembered for the oppression of people the suppression of freedom,


discrimination, division attempts to breakup our country and even military dictatorship.



When they leave, these laws determine our ability, this situation looks even worse after this, further silence, until in 2022, the law reformed commission issued a report in which it concluded that with a few exceptions, the rules offences and defences contained in the court over the lack and of counterparts in the common law and therefore seems to be unnecessary.



Not surprisingly, it was recommended that the code be repealed and be replaced with the law as it applies in the rest of the Republic.



And then House Chairperson, quite surprisingly, government finally settled on this simple Bill under discussion today. While we therefore rise in support of this Bill, we are compelled to remark that this little bit of history clearly unmask the lackadaisically manner in which this ANC-led government has over the years dealt with the eradication of the laws that were part and parcel of the repressive system it fought long to defeat. Thank you.


Ms Y N YAKO: Hon House Chairperson, the EFF is in support of the repeal of the Transkeian Penal Code Bill of 1983. That panel code was the concoction of the English Criminal Law as some versions of the African customary law as was then practiced in the area that was known as Transkei.



The origins of the penal code dates back to 1886, when the Cape of Good Hope Parliament passed the Penal Code of 1886 in order to consolidate colonial governance of the conquered territories of African people in that area.



The code itself was a product of Cape government commission of 1883 on native laws and customs. The same way the Native Land Act of 1913 was a product of Lactance Native Affairs of 1905. These were laws passed by the colonial government based on their perverted use of native people in this country.



When Transkei became an independent homeland, the penal code was revised and passed anew, in 1983. The code provided for the economas criminal law system in the Transkei. One for South Africans and one for settlers.


That we debate this Bill, 28 years after the abolishment of the Bantustans, speaks loudly to how far we have taken for granted the people of the province of the Eastern Cape.



We no longer have the Republic of Ciskei, where I am from. We no longer have the Republic of Transkei. The Kai River no longer separates the people of our great province like they were when interest benefitted only a few.



We know what to grow up under those Bantustans and those republics and understand the impact of now living under the Republic of South Africa that has laws that should and must be binding to all who live in it.



So why is that we have hovering laws of old, that still bind our people as if they are living in a country within a country?



Why is it that we have this law that is still and remains stagnant in this country in 2023?



If you truly value the Constitution, and the rule of law and above all the majority of the marginalised and the dispossessed of this country, why do we have these laws?


To date, there are thousands of other little pieces of colonial and apartheid laws that are still in our astute books. I wonder how many of those we have. All these laws must be repealed. New laws based on values affirming our Africannes must be passed.



It is however, sad that this very Parliament is legitimising the glue some forms of colonial legislation by passing a rage of laws under the pretext of affirming traditional leadership and customary laws. These laws will only serve to further ... [Inaudible.] ... our people, while granting powers to unaccountable bodies in the former Bantustans. We are still affirming and supporting this Bill. Thank you.



Prof C T MSIMANG: Hon House Chairperson, it has been almost 20 years that the Republic of Transkei was integrated into South Africa. Therefore, I find it quite puzzling that we are only now considering this Bill.



The application of this penal code as opposed to the country’s general criminal laws in the Transkei, has been going on for far too long. Considering the legal ramifications, the IFP is in full agreement with the committee’s believe that it is unturnable that this code continues to apply so many years


after the area was incorporated. The people living there continue to be subjected to a different system of a criminal law to that which applies to the rest of South Africa and the legal uncertainty and ambiguity that have been caused by this Act could have been prevented or corrected much earlier.



A unified court system is one in which all courts throughout the state, are ordered in a fashion that enables them to conduct uniform justice more efficiently.



With the Transkein Penal Code still in place, this is not the case for our court system. These draconian apartheid laws cannot continue to remain in place, as our judicial system is based on one rule of law and not legal realism.



Chapter 1(1) of the Constitution clearly states that the Republic of South Africa is founded on the supremacy of the Constitution and the rule of law. This means that the Constitution is the highest law of the land and no other law may conflict with it.



In recent years, we have seen various instances in which the Constitutional Court is tasked with repealing apartheid laws. This causes the Constitutional Court, to be seized with


matters that lessen its capacity to turn to constitutional framework legislation. Perhaps the department should take a more proactive approach in fine combing our statute books to ensure that the draconian apartheid legislation is repealed. This legislation of this nature is unconstitutional. The IFP accepts this report. I thank you, House Chairperson. [Time expired.]



Mr F J MULDER: House Chair, the FF Plus recognise that the Transkenian Panel Code that was enacted in 1983 when the area became independent on the republic has been ... [Inaudible.]

... for South Africa’s general criminal laws resulting in the legal uncertainty as to whether the Code supersedes the country’s common law.





Sonder om te herhaal wat alles reeds gesê is, die VF Plus is egter van mening dat die samestelling van Suid-Afrika in die toekoms toenemed meer federaal van aard sal word, wat sal meebring dat die afwenteling gaandeweg ’n werklikheid sal word.


Die VF Plus steun egter onder omstandighede die herroeping van die Transkei-strafkode vanweë die verdere onbestaanbaarheid daarvan. Dankie.



Mr S N SWART: House Chair, the ACDP supports the repeal of the Transkenian Panel Code of 1983. As the justice committee states in its report, the Panel Code continues to apply in this era despite the new democratic dispensation and the acceptance of the new Constitution in 1996, and this will continue to be the case until the Panel Code is repealed as we are doing today. Clearly, any provision of that Code which contravenes constitutional rights would have been struck down. However, it is indeed an anomaly that citizens in that area are subject to a different Criminal Code, the Transkei Penal Code where the Criminal Procedure Act and other laws applies elsewhere in the country, and this is clearly untenable.



Now the question raised by colleagues is why this issue wasn’t dealt with earlier. It appears that only after the South African Law Reform Commission made its recommendation that the Code should be repealed, that attention was given to repeal the Bill. It would also seem that there was not a lot of public interest given the fact that despite the committee


calling for public submissions on the Bill, no responses were received.



The ACDP has taken note of this Bill and what is encouraging is that the committee took a very short time to repeal this Code since the introduction of this Bill in December last year. One wonders how many similar laws still exists and also need to be repealed. So the ACDP supports this Bill, better late than never. I thank you.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: House Chairperson, I am not going to stand here and ask the question why we didn’t do this, why we ... [Interjections.] ...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Please continue, hon member.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: I am not going to stand here and ask why we didn’t do it sooner? Why did we take 28 years? I think what is important is that from December to now is a very short time that we managed to deal with this matter appropriately. The NFP notes this report - accepts this report. One concern that we do have however, is that we are quite satisfied of course, that the prescribed minimum sentences for assault and gender-


based violence were repealed as well as the section which requires an accused person outlines the nature of person’s defence before the commencement of a trial they repeal.



Advocate Madolo was unable to provide statistics for the number of investigations or prosecutions that use this particular Penal Code. So I think that it might be necessary for us at some stage to acquire some data to see whether they had any implications thereof. But however, the NFP supports this. Thank you very much.



Mr S M JAFTA: House Chair, the Transkei Panel Code was passed


40 years ago in 1983, and 29 years into our democracy, the Bill is still enforced. The South African Law Reform Commission started this process some years back. We give credit to senior council Ishmael Semenya and other senior legal practitioners whom the commission commissioned to report the Transkie Panel Code. The Code specifically applied in the Transkei homeland and was meant to introduce a panel regime outside the Common Law and the South African legal system. The preamble to the Code set out its objectives, which included:



providing, amended, revised and consolidated Code of Criminal Law for the Republic of Transkei.


The problem with this Code which we argue, must have raised eyebrows is that it is not the law of general obligation and only apply to specific segment of people in a specific segment of geographic location. The Law Reform Commission made this clear. For instance, the NPA is expected to frame charges in accordance with the Code in the Eastern Cape. This violation of the equality clause must have picked our resistance. Given that the Code replicates the Common Law provisions and other legislations on such wide matters as principles of self- defence, the force used in arrests, remix of criminal liability when it comes to children and whether insanity and intoxication rescues criminal liability. It remains unsuitable under the new Constitution.



We wish to further clarify as this Parliament that repeal of this Code will apply retroactively. This means that anyone charged and convicted under the Code will continue to serve the duration and terms of their sentences. In other words, the repeal of the Code will have no force or effect on their sentences and conviction.



We call upon the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development to capacitate and fund the work of the Law Reform Commission. This will allow it to assist the state to weed out


apartheid legislation still enforced in South Africa. We, nonetheless support this report. Thank you, Chair.



Mr M G E HENDRICKS: House Chair, our first resistance fighters that fought for the freedom we enjoy today came from the Transkei and it is sad that they are the last to benefit from the freedom that we enjoy, including this particular Criminal Act. Al Jama-ah would like to thank the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Correctional Services for the speedy way they have issued a certificate of desirability and the matter is now before us. The other matters in the Transkei that needs urgent attention. They were the first, like I said, to be the resistance fighters but the last to receive adequate water. Al Jama-ah supports the repeal of this Act. Thank you very much.






Mr N L S KWANKWA: Chair, just before the ANC.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): What is your intervention, hon member?


Mr N L S KWANKWA: No, you know, during my turn I was still trying to connect to the virtual platform. May I just also indicate that the UDM also supports the report and the repeal.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you, hon member. Please proceed, hon member.



Ms N H MASEKO-JELE: House Chairperson, hon members, the ANC supports the report of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Correctional Services regarding the Repeal of the Transkeian Penal Code Bill. The support is informed by the ANC’s foundational principles outlined in the Freedom Charter on the matters of equality before the law.



As indicated, the Bill proposes to repeal the Transkeian Penal Code of 1983 which continues to apply in the area formerly known as the Republic of Transkei and to re-establish applications of the Common Law and rules in that area. The Code was enacted when the area formerly known as the Republic of Transkei became nominally independent in 1976, despite the incorporation of the area in South Africa under the new democratic dispensation. In terms of the Constitution 1996, the Code remains enforced until repeal or amended.


The ANC agrees with the view by the department that: the right to equality before the law which presumes the uniform application of the Criminal Law if the republic requires the state to ensure that there is a uniform system of Criminal Law and that there are no parallel laws that regulate the same subject matter in different parts of the country. We are indeed a unitary state whose foundation is constitutional democracy, and as such, the people of the area formerly known as the Republic of Transkei should be subjected to the law like the rest of the country as the application of the Code resulted legal uncertainty regarding whether the Code superseded the Common Law.



We are in agreement with the South African Law Reform Commission’s preliminary research that with a few exceptions, the rules offences and defences contained in the Code overlap or has corresponding provisions in the Common Law for other statues which are applicable to the rest of the republic, resulting in legal pluralism and legal uncertainty.

Furthermore, the South African Law Reform Commission found that a handful with the provisions in the Code had preceded by more recent legislation rendering provisions in the Code nugatory redundant or implied repeal.


We are confident that the repeal of the Transkeian Penal Code of 1983 will go a long way in addressing these legal uncertainties to the benefit of the people in the former Transkei area. We are working as the ANC. We are going to make sure that we get more of such laws and eradicate them unlike the DA that is always complaining. The ANC supports the report.



The Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted.



Question put.



Motion agreed to.



Report accordingly adopted.







(Second Reading)



There was no debate.



Bill read a second time.





There was no debate.



Permission accordingly granted to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Correctional Services to inquire into extending the subject of Cannabis for Private Purposes Bill in terms of Rule 286(4)(b).







(Draft Resolution)



Ms R C ADAMS: Chairperson, the ANC moves without notice: That the House –



(1) notes with sadness the tragic passing of popular South African rapper Kiernan Forbes, popularly known as AKA,


following a fatal shooting in Durban, KwaZulu-Natal, on the evening of 10 February 2023;



(2) further notes that at the time of his passing, he was due to perform at a Durban night club, YUGO, as part of his birthday celebrations;



(3) understands that the 35-year-old AKA was counted amongst the best rappers on the continent and had produced and written many hit songs including Fela In Versace, Baddest and others since he broke into the industry over a decade ago;



(4) further understands that he won Male Artist of the Year at the South African Music Awards, SAMAs, in 2012;



(5) remembers AKA as one of the most patriotic artists who literally flew the South African flag high everywhere he went around the globe; and



(6) conveys its condolences his family, friends, industry peers and fans throughout the continent.



Agreed to.





(Draft Resolution)



Ms A L A ABRAHAMS: I hereby move on behalf of the DA without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes that the City of Cape Town, with the support of the Western Cape government, hosted the first ever Formula E world championship held in South Africa on

25 February 2023;



(2) further notes that the hosting of the event generated more than R2 billion in direct and indirect investments, including R481 million in global destination exposure for Cape Town, the Western Cape and the rest of South Africa;



(3) acknowledges that the benefits of hosting the event goes well beyond a once-off economic boost, and that international and domestic tourism will be boosted as


the City of Cape Town will play host to this championship over the next ten years;



(4) recalls that although Covid-19 travel restrictions severely hampered tourism, and that the local economy in the Western Cape suffered as a result, the hosting of the championship saw hotels fully booked, allowing vendors, restaurants and tour operators to capitalise;



(5) recognises that event organisers successfully hosted the international event despite the Republic’s ongoing electricity shortage characterised by crippling rolling blackouts; and



(6) congratulates the City of Cape Town, Western Cape government, and all public and private partners for putting on a world-class event.



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)


Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Chairperson, I rise on behalf of the EFF to move without notice: That the House –



(1) notes the depressing condition of many townships, rural areas, and informal settlements, which have become filthy and overrun with litter and illegal dumping;



(2) further notes that municipal refuse collection services have completely collapsed, and this is a threat to the well-being of our people living in these areas;



(3) recognises the EFF Andries Tatane Clean Up Campaign, which aims to clean townships, rural areas, and informal settlements of illegal dumping sites and litter and improve general hygiene;



(4) further recognises that the campaign was launched in Sebokeng led by the EFF commander-in-chief and President Julius Malema together with EFF Members of Parliament, Members of Provincial Legislatures, Councillors, and Ward Committee members;


(5) acknowledges that the Andries Tatane Clean Up Campaign is an important campaign to teach communities to take care of their environment, public spaces, and infrastructure;



(6) remembers activist Andries Tatane who was shot and killed by police officers under ANC-led government during a service delivery protest in Ficksburg, Free State in April 2011; and



(7) encourages all communities to join the Andries Tatane Clean Up Campaign every Saturday in their own areas to ensure that there is no dumping site or litter, and that they must demonstrate self-love by looking after their living areas.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)


Mr N E DLAMINI: Chairperson, the ANC moves without notice: That the House –



(1) notes that the South African artists Nomcebo Zikode, Zakes Bantwini and Wouter Kellerman won the best

global music performance for their song “Bayethe” at


the 65th Annual Grammy Awards at Microsoft Theater in Los Angeles on 5 February 2023;



(2) recalls that they were nominated alongside Nigeria’s Burna Boy, Uganda’s Eddy Kenzo, USA’s Matt B, Ghana's Rocky Dawuni, and Pakistan's Arooj Aftab;



(3) remembers that their win follows hot on the heels of last year’s Grammy win by DJ Black Coffee in the Best Dance Electronic Category;



(4) believes the Grammy Award victory will open more opportunities for South African artists to scoop international accolades; and



(5) congratulates the South African trio for winning the prestigious award and commends them for lifting the country up


Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: House Chairperson, on behalf of the IFP I move without notice: That the House –



(1) notes that the first death related to cholera in South Africa was recorded recently;



(2) further notes that this happened following a series of laboratory-confirmed cases that are on the rise;



(3) acknowledges that the victim was a 24-year-old man who lived in Wattville, Benoni in Ekurhuleni and had no prior local or international travel history;



(4) further acknowledges that the deceased was the country’s fifth confirmed cholera case, and now the first death;


(5) extends its deepest condolences to the family and friends of the deceased on their painful and sudden loss;



(6) heeds the fact that cholera spreads mainly through contaminated or polluted water either directly consumed or indirectly through food;



(7) calls on the Department of Health to strengthen their efforts in ensuring that the public is aware about how cholera is spread, and ways to prevent and control the transmission of cholera; and



(8) further calls on government to provide safe, clean drinking water to all citizens of the country as enshrined in the Constitution of South Africa.



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)


Ms H DENNER: House Chair, I hereby move on behalf of the FFPlus without notice: That the House –



(1) congratulates the Protea Women’s Cricket Team on their stellar performance during the International Cricket Council, ICC, T20 Women’s World Cup Tournament that took place during this past month;



(2) further congratulates them on their stellar and consistent performance during the course of the tournament from the excellent play-off stages, to the quarter final with their win over Bangladesh, up to their victory over England by six runs in the semi- finals cementing their place in the final against Australia that took place this past Sunday;



(3) acknowledges the team, under leadership of captain Sune Luus, for being the first senior national cricket team for South Africa to progress to an ICC World Cup Cricket final;



(4) recognises individual players for their stellar performances during the course of the tournament, such as fast bowler, Ayabonga Khaka who claimed 4 for 29 in


the final over against England to secure SA’s spot in the final, Tazmin Britz who reached a top score of 68 runs in the same game and Laura Wolvaard for her stunning final innings of 61 runs against Australia in the final match, and also for making the most runs during the course of the tournament;



(5) applauds coach Hilton Moreeng on his team’s performance and acknowledges that in the past five years the team also reached three major ICC tournament semi-finals, two in the 50-over format World Cup in 2017 and 2022 and one in the T20 World Cup in 2020; and



(6) expresses its extreme pride and joy over the team’s excellent performance.



Agreed to.





(Draft Resolution)



Ms N K BILANKULU: House Chair, I move without notice:


That the House-



(1) notes that there were emotional scenes at Johannesburg’s OR Tambo and Cape Town International Airports on Saturday, 18 February 2023, when Gift of the Givers and SA Police Service, SAPS search and rescue teams arrived home from Türkiye;



(2) further notes that the teams were dispatched after the devastating earthquakes there and in Syria that have so far claimed more than 40 000 lives;



(3) acknowledges that at a press conference after their arrival, the Turkish Embassy praised South Africa for its response to the tragedy, as did National Police Commissioner General Fannie Masemola;



(4) commends the Gift of the Givers for the work they do here at home and abroad in times of desperate need and for flying the flag of our country South Africa high; and



(5) extends its well wishes to the Gift of the Givers for always lending a helping hand and wishes them








Agreed to.


much strength and success in their future operations. Thank you Chair.








(Draft Resolution)



Mr S N SWART: House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House-



(1) notes that a total of 18 South Africans recently took part in the world’s toughest race, the 2023 Dakar Rally, either as riders, drivers, or co- pilots;



(2) acknowledges a 31-year-old South African motorcycle rider, Charan Moore, who won the Original by Motul previously known as the Malle Moto Original, motorcycle class in only his second Dakar Rally;


(3) further notes that these riders are not allowed assistance of any kind, must set up their own campsites, and service their own motorcycles over the various stages of the race testing their riding ability, mechanical competence, and capacity to perform mentally and physically in the face of extreme and cumulative fatigue; and



(4) also congratulates-



a) South African motorcycle rider Michael Docherty, who was the winner of the rookie section of the rally;



b) Giniel de Villiers, who won the rally in 2009, for completing his 20th consecutive rally when he ended the race in fourth place in the overall standings;



c) all who participated, in particularly all the South Africans; and


d) lastly the winners, Nasser Al Attiyah and Mathieu Baumel, for their third Dakar title in a South African built GR DKR Hilux T1+.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr N L S KWANKWA: House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House-



(1) notes with sadness and shock the brutal and inhumane murder of Zolani Toyana, a 23-year old whose life was shortened by three teenage girls who allegedly stabbed him to death for a bottle of alcohol on 12 February 2023, in Site C, Khayelitsha;



(2) further notes that Zolani’s life was ended abruptly at a local tavern which was hosting an event;


(3) recalls that his gruesome death is one of many incidents where young people were gathered at a tavern which should be off limits to persons under the age of 18;



(4) condemns the gruesome murder of Zolani and


calls on the criminal justice system to ensure that the tavern owners who continue to break our laws face the full might of the law, and make sure that all the perpetrators of gender-based violence crimes face the full might of the law;



(5) further calls on Parliament to strengthen all laws that deal with gender-based violence; and



(6) extends its deep sympathies and condolences to the Toyana family, close friends and relatives. May his soul rest in eternal peace.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)


Mrs M B HICKLIN: House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House-



(1) notes that 12-year-old Raphaella Lalou, a Grade 7 learner at the King David Victory Park Primary School in Johannesburg, was elected to the Johannesburg Mini City Council;



(2) acknowledges that the Johannesburg Mini City Council is a nonpolitical programme that aims to foster a sense of civic responsibility among the youth, and to develop young people’s skills and self-image so that they can become confident in their ability to bring about change in the country;



(3) recognises that the Johannesburg Mini City Council has been effecting change in the lives of our youth for over four decades, and that the focus on teaching leadership lessons to Grade 7 learners have proven invaluable to their future development;



(4) congratulates Raphaella on her selection for the leadership committee; and


(5) wishes Raphaella and her fellow mini city councillors well for a productive and successful 2023.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Ms M MAKESINI: House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House-



(1) notes that the People’s United Democratic Movement, PUDEMO of Eswatini held its 10th General Congress under the theme, “Consolidate, Defend, and Advance towards a people’s victory in Eswatini.”



(2) recognises that the PUDEMO 10th General Congress is held 50 years after King Sobhuza banned all political parties in Swaziland in 1973;


(3) acknowledges the Congress’s unequivocal call for unbanning of political parties in Eswatini as a necessary step towards Eswatini’s stability and democracy;



(4) calls on all movements in Eswatini to continue to engage towards a new democratic constitution that will build a foundation for multiparty democracy; and



(5) congratulates the newly elected leadership of PUDEMO and calls on them to continue to fight for the people’s victory and remember Comrade Mario Masuku.



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Ms N H MASEKO-JELE: House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House-


(1) notes that Black Consciousness leader, Peter Cyril Jones, passed on at the age of 72, on Wednesday, 15 February 2023, at his Pringle Bay home in the Western Cape after suffering a stroke;



(2) further notes that in 1977, Jones and Biko who were both leaders of the Black People’s Convention were arrested at a roadblock near Grahamstown where they were then separated;



(3) understands that the struggle veteran was the last leader and person to see Steve Biko alive;



(4) further understands that Jones later served as the Vice President of AZAPO;



(5) acknowledges that in 2019, Jones suffered a major stroke that left him incapacitated;



(6) believes he was the eternal revolutionary; and



(7) extends its deepest condolences to his family, friends and fellow Black Consciousness members.


Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House-



(1) notes that on 12 February well-known community activist and selfless leader Ayob Mungalee was brutally gunned down outside his home in Eldorado Park;



(2) further notes that Ayob Mungalee had been fighting tirelessly to rid the community of Eldorado Park of drugs, gangsterism and high levels of crime;



(3) understands that he publicly raised his concerns on the high levels of crime in Eldorado Park on numerous occasions, but to no avail;


(4) further understands that he publicly exposed criminals operating in Eldorado Park;



(5) realises that his death is a blow to the community of Eldorado Park who have been rallying behind him in the quest for a better society free of crime; therefore



(6) call upon this hon House to convey its condolences to his family and friends and community at large; and



(7) calls on the South African Police Service to intensify its investigation into this barbaric act of criminality and bring the perpetrators to book.



Agreed to.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Before I recognise the ANC, I just want to recognise the Chief Whip of the Majority Party.



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chair, it is with a heavy heart to inform the hon members here in the National


Assembly that we have lost a member in the National Council of Provinces, hon Gillion Maurencia. She collapsed at the City Lodge whilst they were having a session of the National Council of Provinces. Upon arrival of the doctor, she was certified dead. [Inaudible] ... that it is important that we notify this august House. Thank you very much.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you hon Chief Whip. I am quite sure that the necessary arrangements will be made for the institution to convey its condolences to the family. The ANC.






(Draft Resolution)



Ms K B TLHOMELANG: Thank you, House Chair. The African National Congress moves without notice:



That the House-



(1) notes that International Women’s Day is annually held on 8 March to celebrate women’s achievements throughout history and across nations;


(2) further notes that the purpose of International Women’s Day is to uphold women’s achievements, recognise challenges, and focus greater attention on women’s rights and gender equality;



(3) understands that the theme for this year is, “DigitALL: Innovation and technology for gender equality”;



(4) acknowledges that the theme is aligned with the priority theme for the upcoming 67th Session of the Commission on the Status of Women, “Innovation and technological change, and education in the digital age for achieving gender equality and the empowerment of all women and girls”; and



(5) calls on all to observe this day which is aimed at helping nations worldwide to eliminate discrimination against women and focus on helping women gain full and equal participation in global development.



Thank you very much.


Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Ms A RAMOLOBENG: Thank you, House Chair. The ANC moves without notice:



That the House-



(1) notes that the 1st March is Zero Discrimination Day, an annual worldwide event that promotes diversity and recognises that everyone counts;



(2) understands that the day centres around promoting various activities to celebrate everyone’s right to live a full life with dignity regardless of age, gender, sexuality, nationality, ethnicity, skin colour, height, weight, profession, education, and beliefs;



(3) acknowledges that Zero Discrimination Day highlights how people can become informed about and promote


inclusion, compassion, peace and, above all, a movement for change;



(4) whilst many countries have laws against discrimination it still remains a problem in all layers of society in every country in the world and many countries have and still use discrimination as a way of governing;



(5) further acknowledges that on Zero Discrimination Day this year, under the theme “Save lives: Decriminalise”, United Nations Programme on human immunodeficiency virus, HIV, acquired immunodeficiency syndrome, Aids, UNAIDS, is highlighting how the decriminalisation of key populations and people living with HIV saves lives and helps advance the end of the Aids pandemic; and



(6) calls on all citizens to play their part in stamping out discrimination in all its forms.



Thanks, House Chair.



Agreed to.





(Draft Resolution)



Ms H ISMAIL: Thank you, House Chair, I hereby move on behalf of the Democratic Alliance:



That the House–



(1) notes that a massive tanker exploded in Boksburg on


24 December 2022;



(2) further notes that 41 persons, of which 12 were health care workers working at the Tambo Memorial Hospital, sadly lost their lives due to the explosion;



(3) acknowledges the swift interventions from the office of the executive mayor in the City of Ekurhuleni, which made resources available to lighten the plight of families who lost loved ones in the explosion;



(4) recognises the support and assistance provided by the Gift of the Givers and other nonprofit


organisations, religious formations political parties and communities, who all came together across the political divide, in the aftermath of the explosion;



(5) conveys our heartfelt condolences to the families that lost loved ones due to the explosion, and wishes those injured a speedy recovery; and



(6) thanks the City of Ekurhuleni, the Gift of the Givers and all other nonprofit organisations, religious formations, political parties and communities who rendered assistance and support in the aftermath of the explosion.



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Thank you very much, hon House Chair. The Al Jama-ah political party moves without notice:


That the House –



(1) notes the sudden death of Rafiq Rohan who was in his late sixties, and was found dead in his Durban flat on Sunday, 26 February 2023;



(2) further notes that he was a renowned journalist and the only political prisoner on Robben Island from the media in 1969;



(3) acknowledges that he hailed from Durban and was a member of the Muslim Youth Movement and edited its newspaper, Al-Qalam, and work for Muslim News;



(4) recognises that he was a uMkhonto weSizwe, MK, operative and the last political prisoner on Robben Island to have occupied President Nelson Mandela’s old cell on the Island;



(5) further recognises that he was among the last group of political prisoners to be released from Robben Island; and


(6) expresses its condolences to his daughter Shaista Rohan-Toefy and grandchildren and the extended Rohan family and the Muslim Youth Movement.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)





Muf M M RAMADWA: Ndi a livhuwa Mudzulatshidulo wa Nn?u.





The African National Congress moves without notice:



That the House-



(1) notes with sadness the passing of 20 people in a head-on collision between a tour bus and a cash-in- transit van on the N1 in Makhado, Limpopo on Tuesday, 14 February 2023;


(2) further notes that 68 more people were left injured after the bus landed in a river after rolling from a bridge on the freeway;



(3) commends the paramedics, the fire department and several other private emergency medical services, EMS, for arriving in time and attending to the victims; and



(4) extends its deepest condolences to the families, friends and colleagues of those who have perished in Limpopo and wishes the injured passengers a speedy recovery.








Agreed to.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, that concludes motions without notice. During the course of the item that we were dealing with, we were informed of the sudden and unfortunate passing away of the hon Maurencia Gillion, a


member of the NCOP. I would like to request all members to rise to observe a moment of silence, please.



Mr A M SEABI: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That this House debates the increase in cash in transit heists and how to use the comprehensive security in intelligence services to tackle the scourge.





Mev V VAN DYK: Agb Voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis dat by die volgende sitting van die Huis ek namens die DA sal voorstel:



Dat die Huis ’n debat voer oor die probleme wat die SA Polisiediens in Kamiesberg ondervind om die gemeenskap tot diens te wees as gevolg van personeel en diensvoertuig tekorte.



Ms C C S MOTSEPE: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:


That the House debates the poorly constructed Reconstruction Development Programme, RDP, houses that are flooding each year due to its poor quality construction which leads to our people drowning in the houses.



Ms G P MAREKWA: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House should debate addressing the crime of ransom kidnappings and measures to prevent such diabolical occurrences.



Mr N SINGH: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:



That this House debates the usage of the provision of Illegal Occupation Act that exploits loopholes contained within the legislation where people unlawfully occupy land and or homes.


Ms T BREEDT: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the FF Plus:



That the House debates whether vaccine production and distribution should continue to be the mandate of the Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development by way of Onderstepoort Biological Products, OBP, or whether it should become an independent, privatized process to ensure not only the best vaccines, but availability thereof. Taking into account that we have seen large scale unavailability of vaccines such as Blue Tongue, African Horse Sickness, Rift Valley Fever, and Lumpy Skin Disease since early 2022. Considering also, that OBP has not considered importing of vaccines and has moved the deadline for availability twice within the last two months



Mr S N SWART: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ACDP:



That the House debates the implications for the country’s financial institutions and economy of its grey listing by


the Financial Action Task Force on Friday 25 February 2023.



Mr N L S KWANKWA: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:



That the House debates measures to fight and curb violent crime in South Africa and its impact on the South African economy.



Mr H C C KRÜGER: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:



That the House debates government’s perceived failure to develop an effective red tape reform framework for the small business sector.



Ms P MARAIS: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:


That the House debates the hundreds of quarries such as the Corobrik Quarry in Heidedal which are abandoned and a cause of death of young boys and girls who swim in those quarries while owners of those facilities do not take any responsibility for all the lives lost.



Ms N T MKHATSHWA: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House debates the repurposing of unutilized state buildings to address the infrastructure demand to support teaching learning in the poor school education and training sector. I thank you Chair.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the NFP:



That this House deliberates on the weaknesses in the delivery of services at local government level.


Ms N H MASEKO-JELE: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House debates effective and sustainable solutions to end human trafficking.



Ms A RAMOLOBENG: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House debates tackling the rise and contract killing in South Africa.



Mr N P MASIPA: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:



That this House debates how Onderstepoort Biological Products’ inability to produce vaccines that resulted in the current shortage of the animal vaccines is destroying the livestock industry in the Republic, despite many calls for private sector interventions to increase vaccine production.


Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the Al Jama-ah:



That the House investigates why it was not consulted before government allowed SA Hajj and Umrah Council, Sahuc, an NGO to conclude and sign international agreements with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia or its delegated authority in connection with the Hajj and/or whether government has ratified such agreements and/or whether government has recognised Sahuc in any official capacity regarding operations of the Hajj.



Mr S H MBUYANE: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House debates peace and stability in Africa.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, that concludes notices of motions. May I remind you that you must remain standing while the Chairperson of the session and the Mace leave the House.


That concludes the notices of motion and the business of the day. The House is adjourned.



The House adjourned at 16:54.