Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised hansard

House: National Council of Provinces

Date of Meeting: 22 Nov 2022


No summary available.



Watch: Plenary



The Council met at 14:02.



The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.




The CHAIRRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much. Before we proceed, I would like to remind you of the following, hon delegates that, the virtual sitting constitute a sitting of the NCOP, that the place of the sitting is deemed to be Cape Town, where the sitting of the NCOP is. That delegates in the virtual sitting enjoys the same powers and privileges that apply in the sitting of the NCOP

That for purposes of the quorum, all delegates that are locked on to the virtual platform, shall be considered to be present. That delegates must switch on their videos if they want to speak and that delegates should ensure that, their microphones on their gadgets are muted, and must remain muted. That the interpretation facilities is active.

The permanent delegates, Members of the Executive, special delegates and SA Local Government Association, Salga, representatives, are requested to ensure that, the interpretation facilities on their gadgets are properly activated to facilitate access through interpretation services

That any delegate that wishes to speak, must use t raise your hand function. I am sure that members are now familiar with this icon and the mics. Thank you very much. We will now proceed to look at Notices of Motion and Motions without Notice. We will start with Notices of Motion.



Mr M I RAYI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the Council I shall move on behalf of the ANC:


That the Council-


(1) debates, Mechanism to deal decisively with Western Cape employers who are flouting Unemployment Contributions Act, to ensure that they comply with labour legislation; and



(2) notes that an investigation by the department of employment and labour has found that the majority of employers in the Western Cape are not complying with labour legislation.


I so move.


Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.


Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Chairperson, should we not adopt the motion?



Mr M I RAYI: It’s a notice of motion.


The CHAIRRPERSON OF THE NCOP: There’s an objection.


Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Chairperson, sorry. It is a notice of the motion.


The CHAIRRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Okay. Thank you very much.


Mr E M MTHETHWA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the Council I shall move on behalf of the ANC:


That the Council-


Debates, interventions aimed at tightening up ownership and the keeping of vicious dogs such as pit bulls to ensure people, and especially children are safe in their homes, and environment where they live and engaged in extramural activities.



I so move.



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.


Ms M L MOSHODI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the Council I shall move on behalf of the ANC:


That the Council-



Debates, Interventions aimed at resolving the challenges faced by the taxi industry particularly in the Western Cape, an industry which transports 2 million passengers daily in the province, and accounts for 75% of all public transport trips.


I so move.


Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.




(Draft Resolution)


Mr W A S AUCAMP: Chairperson, I move without notice:


That the Council-


(1) notes with concern the fact that areas like Mier, Leseding, Klippunt, Louisvale Dorp, Rosedale and the informal settlements of Ntsikelelo, Lombrechtsdrift and Karos, as well as town of Upington in the Dawid



Kruiper Municipality are experiencing frequent interruptions of the supply of drinking water;



(2) further notes that the lack of provision of sufficient water to these areas are due to load shedding, poor maintenance of the water infrastructure, shortage of underground water supply especially in the Mier area, as well as a lack of capacity for water storage in various areas of the Dawid Kruiper Municipality


(3) acknowledges the fact that this municipality makes use of only one water truck with a capacity of 7 500 litre to deliver water to the areas of Mier which is

220 km from Upington, as well as to Klippunt, Leseding and Louisvaledorp which are all approximately 20 to 25 km from Upington;

(4) further aknowledges that each of these areas have got a population of between 2000 and 5000 people, and that the one water truck provided by the municipality is not capable of supplying these areas with sufficient quantities of water;

(5) remembers that due to load shedding, the pump stations that have to pump water from the Orange River are without electricity on a regular basis, and that load shedding, therefore, has got huge negative effect on the water supply to all the areas in the municipality;

(6) calls upon the Dawid Kruiper Municipality to urgently:

(a) upgrade and maintain the water infrastructure system in the municipality;

(b) make more water trucks available for the sufficient delivery of water to all the municipality;

(c) put plans in place to urgently increase the water storage capacity of all the areas in the municipality; and to

(d) apply to Eskom that the areas in which pump stations are situated are exempted from load shedding in order to ensure a more continuous

supply of water to the people of Dawid Kruiper Municipality.

I so move Agreed to.




(Draft Resolution)


Mr M S MOLETSANE: Chairperson, I move without notice:


That the Council-


(1) notes that this past Sunday, two pit bulls mauled a

3 year old boy to death, in Hennenman, in the Free State Province;

(2) further notes that this gruesome attack follows the mauling of an 8 year old boy in Bloemfontein, just some few days before;

(3) acknowledges that pit bulls are a special breed of a dog which is aggressive and attack humans viciously, especially young children and is not suitable for domestic breeding;

(4) further acknowledges that several nations such as Russia, Finland, Denmark, the UK, Portugal, Germany, China, Brazil and Australia have either banned the breed, or placed certain restrictions on the ownership on the breed as it cannot co-exist with human beings, as is demonstrated in the various spate of attacks in the country;

(5) recognises that in the past week, 49 pit bulls have been handed over to the Bloemfontein Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, SPCA, and

(6) we urge owners in other parts of the country to follow suit, for we cannot carry on engaging in debates on responsible pet ownership in the face of these deadly attacks; and

(7) calls for the domestic ownership of this breed to be prohibited in this country.


I so move.


The CHAIRRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much, hon Moletsane. Any objection to the motion?


Mr D R RYDER: There is an objection, Chair.



The CHAIRRPERSON OF THE NCOP: The objection is from who?



Mr D R RYDER: Ryder, Chair.



Mr S F Du TOIT: I also object.



The CHAIRRPERSON OF THE NCOP: There be an objection, the motion may not be proceeded with, and will become the notice of a motion.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr D R RYDER: On behalf of the DA, I move without notice:



That this Council –



(1) notes the concerns raised by the Financial Action Task Force, FATF, in October 2021, relating to South Africa’s financial controls which are likely to result in the greylisting of our country at the February 2023 meeting of the FATF;



(2) further notes that National Treasury was extremely slow to respond to the concerns, waiting for almost 8 months before approaching Parliament for the first time to start making appropriate legislative amendments, and even then, doing so in a rushed and unprocedural manner;



(3) also notes that there are numerous steps required to ward off the greylisting, with legislative amendments being only one tool needed to achieve the improved monitoring and control demanded by the international community;



(4) notes the willingness of both the Standing and Select Committees on Finance to prioritise the processing of the relevant legislation in the interest of the country, by scheduling additional meetings and taking



additional measures to ensure that the legislation is passed in the shortest possible time; and



(5) notes that the DA will not compromise on the quality of the legislation that is passed by this House, and will insist that we do not pass flawed legislation that may be open to legal challenge or impossible to implement and therefore prove counterproductive in our pursuit to reach the highest standards of crime prevention, terrorism prevention and the prosecution of those involved in such activities.



I so move



Not agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr S F DU TOIT: On behalf of the FFPlus, I move without notice:



That the Council –



(1) notes the dire state of roads in the North West province;



(2) further notes the backlog on repair and construction of roads, of which tenders have already been awarded to contractors, and also issues regarding the tender process and monitoring of projects;



(3) also notes that both the local and national economies are affected negatively as a result of this deteriorated road infrastructure;



(4) notes that it has been indicated in the previous motions and debates that the repair of the R507 between Ottosdal and Delareyville must be prioritised and finalised as soon as possible;



(5) further notes that the matter regarding the repair of R507 was brought under the attention of the provincial executive committee, including the premier by organised agriculture, the business sector, Members of the Provincial Legislature and Members of the NCOP without much success; and



(6) also notes that the Minister of Roads and Transport, Fikile Mbalula was requested to intervene and to ensure that not only the R507 road but other crucial roads in the North West province be repaired as soon as possible in the interest of economic growth.



I so move.



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.







(Draft Resolution)



Ms B M BARTLETT: On behalf of the ANC, I move without notice:



That this august House –



(1) notes with pride the continued success of the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, in rediscovering the public money stolen by unscrupulous government officials and private contractors;



(2) believes that failure to ensure that serious consequences against corruption and maladministration cultivates and entrench the culture of impunity; and



(3) salutes the sterling efforts by the Special Investigating Unit for freezing the assets and accounts of the officials and those suspected for benefiting from fraudulent tenders.



I so move.



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.






(Draft Resolution)



Ms D C CHRISTIANS: On behalf of the DA, I move without notice:



That this Council –



(1) notes with concern that the Department of Water and Sanitation’s World Toilet Day celebrations in the



Northern Cape is a slap in the face of Douglas residents in the Siyancuma Municipality. Instead of focusing on the eradication of bucket toilets, the department has been handing out toilet rolls and toilet brushes to residents who do not have toilets;



(2) notes that the department’s programme scheduled for Breipaal and Bongani last week, shows this intention. Some residents reported receiving sanitizer and soap bars as well;



(3) further notes with concern that the money spent on handouts should have been spent on the eradication of bucket toilets and not on handouts of sanitizers, toilet paper and soap;



(4) also notes that the Department of Water and Sanitation’s spokesperson, Sputnik Ratau indicated earlier this year that there are still between 12 000 and 14 000 bucket toilets in total, in the Free State and the Northern Cape;



(5) also notes with dismay that Campbell in the same Municipality in the Northern Cape has the highest



amount of pit and bucket toilets in the Northern Cape, and no measures have been taken to remedy this, yet this department sees fit to hand out toilet brush sets to people without toilets;



(6) notes with frustration that this is the same department that failed to spend an allocated amount of

R243 million in the previous financial year, to eradicate bucket toilets in the Free State and Northern Cape, and



(7) requests the Minister of Water and Sanitation, Minister Mchunu to urgently present a breakdown of the funding for the Toilet Day campaign to the NCOP and to follow- up on the eradication of bucket toilets in Douglas and the rest of the province.



I so move



Not agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr M NHANHA: On behalf of the DA, I hereby move without notice:



That this Council –



(1) notes with grave concern the revelations made by Eskom that all its Open Cycle Gas Turbines, OCGT, have now ceased operation due to Eskom’s inability to buy more diesel;



(2) further notes that this inability has now resulted in Eskom facing prolonged and higher levels of load shedding just as the festive and tourist season is upon us;



(3) also notes that South Africans do not need to be in this situation if the governing party – the ANC - heeded the prolonged call of the DA to declare a ring-fenced state of disaster on Eskom. This will allow for an emergency reprioritization of resources to keep the Open Cycle Gas Turbines running;



(4) further notes that Eskom does not need to be bound by red tape while the country is facing this



electricity crisis. The declaration of a ring-fenced state of disaster will allow the government to act with speed to prioritise disaster relief funding and ensure all encumbrances which include labour localization, cadre deployment and preferential procurement are banished; and lastly



(5) implores the ANC government to put South Africans first, your stubbornness has cost this country’s economy far too much. You cannot be this out of touch with the reality of our citizens that you continue on this path.



I so move



Not agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Mr E M MTHETHWA: On behalf of the ANC, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) welcomes the arrest of two police officers for the murder of the Ethekwini ward 99 councilor, Mnqobi Molefe and his two friends;



(2) notes that the two officers, Mayendran Chetty and Vincent Phelago based in eMkhomazi police station, south of Durban, appeared at Scottburgh magistrate court on Wednesday, 16 November 2022;



(3) understands that they are charged with two counts of murder in the Port Shepstone area for the alleged killing of ward 99 councilor, Mnqobi Molefe and Zitha Mqapheli Cele;



(4) recalls that they are also facing two other counts of murder for allegedly killing Mlungisi Buthelezi and Nhlonipho Nzimande, who were also councilor’s associates in a separate incidents in August and September;



(5) further recalls that political killings is seriously increasing especially in our province, KwaZulu-Natal and that it is shocking considering



that the police are allegedly implicated in these killings; and



(6) calls upon increased government intervention to ascertain who is behind these killings as to put an end to the political killings.



I so move.



Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Yes, there is an objection. Chairperson, according to Rule 65, Rule of anticipation, it is a motion that has to do with the debate that will be debated today.





Mnu E MTHETHWA: Cha, usuyagula ke manje.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: You can’t dismiss a motion on the basis that there is going to be a debate later on, hon Labuschagne. We will have to ask again as to whether there is any objection to the motion?



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.






(Draft Resolution)



Ms S SHAIKH: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the Council –



1) Welcomes the arrest of a 46-year-old man with links to an international criminal network, including seven of his accomplices in the raid in plush suburb of Bryanston;



2) notes that the Israel fugitive was on Interpol’s Red Notice since 2015; recalls that he was attached to the Abergil Organisation and faces charges in Israel for conspiracy to commit murder and attempted murder;



3) understands that three kilograms of drugs, 19 firearms including two AK47s, six motorbikes, eight vehicles including a sniper light delivery vehicle, along with four GPS tracking devices and $40 000 in cash were amongst the items confiscated in the raid;



4) recognises that the crime syndicates have grown their networks into sophisticated machinery across national boundaries;



5) commends the multi-disciplinary team that was led by Interpol South Africa, Organised Crime, Detectives, Crime Intelligence and the Special Task Force for the job well done.



I so move.



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.



Mr M R BARA: Hon Chairperson, on a point of order: Just before hon Gillion, I just want to raise that at times members would not always say what you would like or want them to say. For hon Mthethwa to say that hon Labuschagne ...





... uyagula ...






 ... I do not think that is parliamentary and I would like him to withdraw that word because that would mean that she is sick and I do not think that we have sick people in this platform. Thank you Chair.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, I would like to make a plea again that let us try to avoid making comments that are not quite in keeping with ensuring the decorum of the House and the proceedings. It is a plea I am making and we note the point. What I am going to do at this time is to find out whether the member, because I did not hear that, actually said this. Hon member, did you say what they say you said?



Mr E M MTHETHWA: Yes, Chair.








Mnu E MTHETHWA: Ngithe usuyagula uma usuzophikisa nokubulawa kwabantu, amakhansela.





The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon member, I am sure you heard what I have just said. Let us try to desist from doing



anything that will undermine the functioning of the House especially the functioning of the decorum. The call out there was really about the withdrawal of the remark. So, hon Mthethwa, can you please withdraw the remark?



Mr E M MTHETHWA: I withdraw Chair.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr M N GILLION: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the Council –



(1) notes with shock the murder of two children from Grabouw, alleged to have been killed by their mother when she set alight the shack the kids were locked in;



(2) also notes that Police spokesperson Novela Potelwa confirmed that the mother was arrested after they were called to the Waterworks informal settlement on Friday morning;



(3) further notes that on arrival the police discovered a shack that was locked and on fire and during inspection discovered the charred bodies of two young boys aged three and five years respectively; and



(4) sends our deepest sympathy to the affected family and urge the police to investigate this horrendous act.



I so move.



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.



Ms C VISSER: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the Council –



(1) notes the entrusted responsibility of the NCOP in terms of the Executive undertakings of Parliament ensuring compliance with the Constitution and national legislation are respected and protected in all spheres of government;



(2) also notes that several motions served before this House regarding the reported degradation of water quality in every stream, river and dam with increasing levels of toxicity due to discharges by municipalities and industries, without any consequential actions taken by government to save our water;



(3) further notes that the government has for more than a decade “passed the buck” regarding the continuous toxic contamination of the Vaal River’s, sewer pollution by municipalities like Emfuleni Local Municipality, Govan Mbeki Local Municipality and others as well as unabated pollution of extremely toxic chemicals from industrial giants like Sasol;



(4) notes the mismanagement of discharge from the Zeerust Waste Water Treatment Works which



contaminated the Klein Marico Poort and the Marico Bosveld dams which not only destroyed the agricultural irrigation development but farmers lost their tobacco contracts yet still had to pay for their water rights which they cannot utilize and the milk a dairy farm produced to a factory processing cheese contaminated the cows and their milk with alkaline present even in the cheese;



(5) also notes that although the water quality in the Ngaka Modiri Molema District Municipality was red- flagged by the late hon Edna Molewa as not being fit for human consumption, the directive has not been lifted to date; and that whilst water users next to the sewer drenched Hartsriver are unaware of lurking waterborne diseases they are subjected to and unaware that the Barberspan Ramsar site is dying due to contamination, consumers of Mamusa Local Municipality are extracting water for consumers; and



(6) calls on all political parties to make peace and reach a common solution before the continuous



degradation of our water quality and toxic contamination of our water slowly kills our nation.



I so move.



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.



Ms N E NKOSI: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the Council –



(1) notes that the police in Mpumalanga have arrested three men suspected of being involved in the murder of a German tourist outside the Kruger National Park a month ago;



(2) also notes that a group of four armed man attacked a group of tourists including the deceased and his wife on October 3;



(3) further notes that the suspects managed to evade the police until the arrest of Mr Napoleon Joseph Nyalungu, in Mbombela a few weeks ago; and



(4) congratulates the police on their sterling work and hope that they will leave no stone unturned to make sure that the perpetrators of the crime are put behind bars for a long time.



I so move.



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.



Mr T APLENI: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the Council –



(1) acknowledges the long and tedious processes faced by many single mothers approaching maintenance courts in the Eastern Cape; and



(2) notes with concern that this is a common occurrence at maintenance courts across the country, with maintenance cases often dragging on for months on end, with no results.



I so move.



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.



Mr E Z NJADU: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the Council –



(1) notes the swift arrest of people by law enforcement agencies who are alleged to have kidnaped an 8-year- old Abirah Dekhta;



(2) also notes that Abirah was kidnapped while seated in a lift club vehicle in Amber Court in Gatesville, at about 07h20am on Friday, 4 November 2022;



(3) further notes that on Monday,14 November 2022, police got a tip-off at about 17h00pm that Abirah was being held hostage in Khayelitsha;



(4) notes that on 14 November 2022, the police caught seven people, including a woman who was allegedly feeding the child and Abirah was safely rescued;



(5) the seven suspects appeared in the Wynberg Magistrate's Court on Thursday, 17 November 2022, facing charges of kidnapping and extortion; and



(6) applauds the law-abiding citizens for continuously working with the law enforcement agencies to ensure that suspects are brought to book.



I so move.



Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.






Ms T C MODISE: Hon Chairperson, the Select Committee on Land Reform took an oversight visit to the Northern Cape from 15 to

19 August 2022. They first met with the community of Kathu.


Hon Chairperson, because the report is too long, I will just go straight to the recommendations as there are number of challenges and a number of summaries that were made during the oversight visit.



The recommendations of Kathu, hon Chairperson of the House, the committee recommended that the Department of Mineral Resources and Energy, furnished with the details of all the Social and Labour Plan, SLP, proposals as they were presented by the mining company of Gamagara Local Municipality and the surrounding areas together with the reports from Department of Mineral Resources and Energy, the local authority refining the existence of completion of these projects before the mining license have been renewed.



The Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development and the Department of Mineral Resources and Energy are provided with the opportunity to comment about the complaints put forward by the Consumer Protection Act affected by the mining activities on its land.



In particular, the department needs to clarify whether all the correct avenues of communication were followed when consulting with the Consumer Protection Act after the mining explorations were received. After such rights were awarded that the committee communicated its concerns about the lack of economic development and opportunities in the Northern Cape with the Select Committee on Trade and Industry, Economic Development



Small Business, Tourism and Employment Labour and its counterpart committee in the National Assembly.



The committee should further communicate the concerns regarding lack of a higher tertiary education opportunity in the rural municipality with the report of the Select Committee on Education Technology Sports Arts and Culture with its counterpart at the National Assembly.



Lastly the committee should communicate with concerns regarding the municipality funding model and infrastructure challenge with the Select Committee on Finance, as well as the Select Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Water and Sanitation and Human Settlements, with its counterpart in the National Assembly.



The committee continue to follow-up with the Department of Mineral Resources and Energy, regarding artisanal and small- scale mining policy implementation and intervention plan for the Northern Cape.



The committee seek clarity from the Department of Mineral Resources and Energy and the Select Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Water and Sanitation and



Human Settlements, regarding complaints of Danielskuil and Siyathemba, residents that were relocated to make a way for Kumba Iron Ore Mine expansion.



That the committee relays the community concerns regarding illegal mining activities and fear escalations in the region to the Department of Mineral Resources and Energy and the Select Committee on Security and Justice.



That the department liaise with the Department of Forestry, Fisheries and the Environment, in order to furnish to Kathu community representatives, with the requested information regarding legislation and regulation applications to environmental management and mining activities, inclusive of the process of the reporting concerns about breach of mine Environmental Management Plans, EMPs.



With regard to the second set of recommendations, the committee resolved to liaise with the municipality, the Department of Forestry, Fisheries and the Environment and Treasury in order to ensure that all forms of grants supported, available to the municipality to upgrade its solid waste removal fleets are made available and accessed by the municipality.



The committee further recommends that during its engagements with the relevant parliamentary committee, the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs and Treasury regarding the challenges the municipality is facing in terms of revenue and grant income.



That the challenges communicated by the local municipality in terms of the solid waste management, is relayed to the responsible entities. The committee recommended that during the engagements with the relevant parliamentary committee, the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs and Treasury and the challenge that the municipality is facing in terms of revenue grant and income.



There is another set of recommendations hon Chairperson, like I said the report is too long, the committee resolved to continue discussions with the Department of Mineral Resources and Energy and the Department of Forestry, Fisheries and the Environment, SA National Parks, Sanparks, as well as Rivermark community, in order to get a clear picture of the nature of government support provided to the community in pursued of rural development needs, as well as in achieving the requirement of a parliamentary co-ordination of the decommissions.



The committee resolved to support the community members in facing clarity needed in claims submitted.



The community further expresses its satisfaction with the fact that the department only had a regional representative, some distance away from affected communities. The committee request that this report be adopted by this House. I thank you, hon Chairperson.



Debate concluded.



Question put: That the Report be adopted.



In favour: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West and Western Cape.



Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.






Ms M N GILLION: Chairperson, Deputy Chairperson, Chief Whip, House Chairperson, hon members, people of South Africa, I greet you warmly with this quotation by the late former President of the Republic of South Africa, President Nelson Mandela:



Safety and security don’t just happen, they are the result of collective consensus and public investment. We owe our children, the most vulnerable citizens in our society, a life free of violence and fear.



In line with this quotation, South Africa, through the Constitution, has committed to realise children’s rights to survive, be protected from harm and develop to their full potential.



The United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, UNCRC, and the African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child, ACRWC, endorse this. This is in alignment to the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa. Further to these, the Children’s Act, Act 38 of 2005, gives effect to certain rights of children.



However, during the implementation of the Children’s Act a number of gaps were identified. These include temporary safe care post-removal processes, grounds for finding orphans and vulnerable children to be in need of care and protection, the changeover to shift from a court-based system for deciding on placement extensions of placements, and overreliance on the foster care system to provide income support to families caring for orphaned and abandoned children.



To address this, the North Gauteng High Court issued an order in the case of the Centre for Child Law v the Minister of Social Development, the SA Social Security Agency, SASSA, and others.



The Court instructed the Minister of Social Development to prepare and introduce in Parliament the necessary amendments to the Children’s Act to produce a comprehensive legal solution regarding the foster care system. The Department of Social Development drafted the Children’s Amendment Bill as per the court’s instruction and tabled the Amendment Bill in Parliament in August 2020. The Bill that was tabled in Parliament is comprehensive in that it does not only focus on clauses related to foster care as per the order of the court



but also addresses gaps that had been identified in the implementation of the Act.



The Children’s Amendment Bill [B18B-2020] was referred to the Select Committee on Health and Social Services on 07 September 2022.



It is with this background that I am speaking in front of you today. Today I am bringing to you the Children’s Amendment Bill. This Amendment Bill seeks to address gaps related to foster care.



The department briefed the select committee on 23 September 2022. Subsequently, all provinces had briefings and public hearings on the Bill. On the 1st of November 2022 all provinces submitted negotiating mandates.



The Select Committee on Health and Social Services, having deliberated on and considered the subject of the Children’s Amendment Bill [B18B – 2020] (National Assembly – section 76), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism, JTM, as a section 76 Bill, reports that on 15 November 2022 it finalised and agreed to an amended Bill [B18D – 2020]. These amendments are reflected in the committee report.



Undoubtedly, this is an important piece of legislation for the care and safeguarding of children. It is a step in recognising and realising what the late former President, Nelson Mandela, said. Let us continue to collectively strive to protect and nurture our children. I thank you, Chairperson.



Declaration of vote:


Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Hon Chair, the Children’s Amendment Bill was an opportunity to put the best interests of South African children at the centre of government services. Not due to government’s urgency, but court intervention after civil society’s horror at the no less than 120 000 foster care court orders falling into backlog.



The North Gauteng High Court ordered the Minister of Social Development and provincial Department Social Development Members of Executive Council, MECs, to solve the crisis by amending the Children’s Act to produce a “comprehensive legal solution” by the end of 2014.



The Department Social Development had to create the necessary mechanisms, structures, resources to ensure that the foster care system operates in a sustainable and effective manner.



Eleven years and three reluctant extensions by the High Court later, and we have another rushed piece of legislation, not to change the situation of children but to meet a deadline. This is exemplified by the fact that only 12 clauses out of the 146 will be dealt with, after 11 years.



Hon Chairperson, this Amendment Bill was an opportunity to change the environment within which the foster care grants are paid, address the reasons that put children in that environment and to come up with a solution that keeps as many children as possible from this space.



The Bill should have provided for human resources at every station where the applications are reviewed and ensured that children who have a possibility to be with loving parents are afforded that opportunity. That opportunity has been lost in this Amendment Bill.



The claims of a committee Bill that needs to be processed is nothing but smoke and mirrors. The Children’s Amendment Bill was 11 years in the making and this with no pressure from the court. Who knows how long it takes to process the committee Bill?



At first, the DA welcomed the Bill. We naively thought it was put on the parliamentary roll to fight the scourge of child neglect, abandonment, stunting and poverty by removing all unnecessary red tape in processing the much needed foster care grant. But the processing of the Bill proved us very wrong.

For example, hon Chairperson, the age-old call by the DA and civil society for more social workers to be appointed has over the years fallen on deaf ears.



Given this, it’s hardly surprising that we are unconvinced that the Bill will achieve that critical comprehensive legal solution the court asked for.



The opportunity presented by this Bill has been trumped by political expediency and panic to protect the Minister from an adverse court order. The ANC government’s callous soul has been exposed when one traces the steps of the 11-year-old court order.



Five provinces proposed amendments to section 150 and section


159 during this process. These clauses relate to the foster care crises. Despite this, it was not considered in the amendments.



Submissions by KwaZulu-Natal on section 150 and the Western Cape submission on section 159(2A) specifically need to be addressed urgently before this bill is passed.



As we speak, there is still a backlog. It is clear from the provisions of the Bill that it only plasters over the backlog and does not remove it. I thank you.



Question put.






Agreed to.






Ms S SHAIKH: Thank you very much, Chairperson. Greetings to your good self into all hon members of this August House. The Drugs and Drug Trafficking Amendment Bill, B19-2022, was referred to the Select Committee on Security and Justice on 27 September 2022. The committee has agreed to the Bill without proposed amendments and reports as follows:



The Drugs and Drug Trafficking Act 140 of 1992, forms a part of the domestic legal framework that gives effect to South Africa’s obligations under the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs, 1961, as amended by the 1972 Protocol); the Convention on Psychotropic Substances, 1971; and the Convention against Illicit Traffic in Narcotic Drugs and Psychotropic Substances, 1988.



The drug conventions provide for detailed procedures to be followed and criteria to be considered to change the scope of control of substances. The Drugs and Drug Trafficking Act 140 of 1992, was enacted by Parliament and came into force on 30 April 1993. Section 3 of the Drugs Act prohibits the manufacturing or supply of any scheduled substance. Section 4 prohibits the use and possession of any dangerous dependence producing substance and undesirable dangerous dependence producing substance unless certain conditions are met.



Schedules 1 and 2 of the Act effectively criminalise certain listed substances and plants. The Drugs and Drug Trafficking Act, 1992, further criminalises the manufacturing and supplying of any substance included in Schedule 1 to that Act; and the use, possession and dealing in any drug included in Schedule 2 to the Act. In terms of section 63 of the Drugs



Act, the Cabinet member responsible for the administration of justice may by notice in the Gazette amend Schedules 1 and 2 to the Act. In terms of section 63, the Minister amended Schedules 1 and 2 to the Act by means of Government Notices No. R. 1765 of 1 November 1996; No. R. 344 of 13 March 1998;

No. R. 760 of 11 June 1999; No. R. 521 of 15 June 2001; No. R.


880 of 8 October 2010 and No. R. 222 of 28 March 2014.



The Drugs and Drug Trafficking Amendment Bill arose as a result of a Constitutional Court judgement, Smit versus Minister of Justice and Correctional Services and others, which declared section 63 of the Drugs Act unconstitutional and invalid and the amendments that have been effected in terms of section 63 to the Schedules to the Drugs Act, invalid.



The Constitutional Court suspended the orders of invalidity for a period of 24 months to give Parliament an opportunity to cure the defects. The 24-month period will lapse on 17 December 2022. Hon Chair, the Drugs and Drug Trafficking Amendment Bill seeks to amend the Drugs and Drug Trafficking Act, 1992, to address the constitutional invalidity of section

63 and the amendments that the Minister effected in terms of section 63 to Schedule 1 and Schedule 2.



Clause 1 repeals section 63 of the Drugs Act, to ensure that any amendment to Schedule 1 and Schedule 2 must be effected in terms of an Act of Parliament. Clause 2 substitutes Schedule 1 and Schedule 2 to the Drugs Act to effect the amendments by the Minister in the various Government Notices referred to earlier. As a result of the finding of the Constitutional Court that section 63 of the Act is inconsistent with the Constitution, the amendments to the schedules introduced by the Minister through the Notices in the Government Gazette were effectively rendered invalid and must be set aside.



Consequently, to remedy the problem created by the invalid amendments to the lists of substances in Schedules 1 and 2 of the Act made by the Minister, the Amendment Bill substitutes the Schedules. This provides for the insertion or deletion of the listed substances via legislation. Hon Chair, the Select Committee on Security and Justice invited stakeholders and interested persons to make written submissions and published the adverts on Parliament’s electronic platforms and print media from 18 October 2022 to 04 November 2022. The Committee received one written submission from an individual.



However, the proposals contained in the submission related to matters not covered by the Bill and instead made recommendations in respect of the enforcement of the Bill.



Following engagements and deliberations on the Bill, the select committee adopted the Bill without proposed amendments.



The committee further welcomed the Bill as it serves to bring domestic legislation in line with South Africa’s international obligations related to changing the scope of control of substances.



Hon Chairperson, the Select Committee on Security and Justice, having considered the Drugs and Drug Trafficking Amendment Bill [B19-2022] (National Assembly – sec 75), referred to it on 27 September 2022, recommends the Council pass the Bill without proposed amendments. I thank you very much, Chairperson.



Declaration of vote:


Mr A ARNOLDS: Thank you, Chairperson. Chairperson, the Drugs and Drug Trafficking Amendment Bill and the court decision that led us here is basically about the powers of Ministers to pass subordinate legislation. The Constitutional Court in the matter of Jason Smith versus the Minister of Justice in



Constitutional Development and others has ruled that section


63 of the Drugs Act is unconstitutional and invalid.



The country faces a serious drug problem and proliferation of new and evolving drugs require the authorities who always are on the lookout in order to respond faster. Section 63 of the Drugs Act which has now been declared as unconstitutional allow the Minister in consultation with the Minister of Health to react faster and make amendments to the schedules of banned substances in the country. We therefore, accept that the Constitutional Court’s decision on the matter is binding on all of us.



This requires of us as Parliament to be agile and be able to pass legislation in an expeditious manner as possible. We wish that Parliament would be able to streamline its functions so that we can respond speedily on issues of national importance such as the growing drug problem in the country. The Economic Freedom Fighters is in favor of the Bill. Thank you, Chairperson.



Debate concluded.



Question put: That the Bill be agreed to.



Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.



The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you, hon members. I would like to take this opportunity to welcome the Minister of Co- operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, hon Dlamini- Zuma; welcome, the Minister of Police, hon B Cele; welcome, all members of the executive council, MECs present on the platform; the chairperson of Salga, hon Cllr Stofile; all Salga representatives and all permanent and special delegates in the House.






(Subject for Discussion)





AFFAIRS: Thank you very much Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, hon Amos Masondo, hon Dodovu - Chairperson of the Select Committee of Co-Operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Councillor Stofile - president of the SA Local Government Association, Salga, all the MECs present, all hon members of the NCOP, delegates, ladies and gentlemen.



I would like to appreciate the National Council of Provinces for finding it necessary that we engage on the killing of councillors – a matter I believe threatens the stability of our young democracy.



In recent times, we continue to witness an increase in the frequency of reports across the country of elected public representatives in the local sphere of government being attacked, their families terrorised and in some instances properties being burned to ashes. The most horrific of all reports is that some councillors and officials are brutally murdered in what is contestation of power and access to resources within the municipal space.



Political killings in the main target individuals holding political and in recent times administrative positions in local government. Presently, these incidents are concentrated in the local municipal landscape and primarily involves councillors, officials and branch leaders of political organisations who have been the primary target of the majority of all political assassinations in the past two decades. The violence we witnessed today was at its height in the 1980s and early 1990s, and it derives purpose from a variety of sources but in great part instigated by the insidious third force of



the apartheid regime security apparatus which lead to political intolerance leading up to the unbanning of political organisations and the 1994 elections.



We are 28 years into our democracy and alarmingly political killings and general violence has been rising in both frequency and intensity. We have witnessed mafia style assassinations and abductions of councillors and municipal officials which sends shock waves throughout the whole of South Africa. As we kickstarts this debate, one thing we can all agree on is that the increase in violence signals that the bedrock of our democracy is under attack, much like when the apartheid regime sought to divide and conquer the efforts of all political formation which were advancing the cause of freedom.



It is therefore necessary that we interrogate the root causes of this problem in contemporary South Africa. For us to address it definitively as a collective. I say this particularly as a problem transcends our different political affiliations and it affects us all. It is a South Africans problem that requires that we all move in concepts towards its resolution.



The findings of the report of the Moerane Commission of Inquiry into the underlying causes of the murder of politicians in KwaZulu-Natal indicates that as elections to be a councillor allows for upward mobility in financial and social status, there is fierce competition for position within municipal councils. In most of the areas, the government is the biggest employer and access to upward social mobility is only through elections as a councillor. The competition becomes therefore greater in these areas where there are no economic opportunities outside of the municipality. Now, people rely on either being elected as a councillor, being employed by the municipality or being awarded contracts to work within the municipality.



The Moerane report further notes that this leads to the development of patronage networks, which protects access to these resources, and any person who threatens this access must be dealt with ... [Inaudible.] ... what they are saying is still true, even today. In framing the thesis for our debate, allow me to quote Bantu Stephen Biko who once said and I quote:



There is no running away from the fact that now in South Africa there is such an ill distribution of wealth that any



form of political freedom which does not touch on the proper distribution of wealth will be meaningless. Our

society will be run almost as of yesterday. So for meaningful change to appear there needs to be an attempt at reorganising the whole economic pattern and economic policies within this particular country.



The reality we are confronted with is that for most people, the material conditions have not really substantially improved. All be it, us having made some considerable strides in transforming certain social indicators. As I address the Men’s Parliament in the NCOP Chamber yesterday, I reminded delegates about the triple challenges of inequality, poverty and unemployment, which is the lived experience of the majority of South Africans.



Our beloved nation is rated as one of the most unequal societies in the world. We have more than 9 million young people aged between 15 and 34 who are unemployed and not in education or training. According to Statistics SA, 56,8% of the people are living in poverty. The wealth and ownership dimensions tell us that the top 1% of the population owns about 50% of all the country’s wealth, and the top 10% together owns more than 90% of the country’s wealth.



So, researching the world over there is an established direct relationship between violence and levels of inequality as the most unequal societies tend to be the most violent.

Consequently, we cannot address the violent killings of councillors without remedying the structural issues that determine the material conditions of ordinary South Africans. Of course, the police will talk about what they are going to do in the meantime. The late Thembisile Chris Hani was visionary in that he so aptly captured this solution to our present reality in that he said and I quote: “We need to create the pathways to give hope to our youth so that they can have the opportunity through education and hard work to escape the trap of poverty.”



So, it is clear without a vibrant local economic development in our municipalities harnessing the local endowments, we will not be able to solve this if we don’t fully embark on a vibrant local development to improve the situation of working in a municipality or being a councillor ... [Inaudible.] ... mobility ... [Inaudible.] ... financial status.



In order to talk about any meaningful transformation, the financial services sector which is at the commanding hands of our economy, needs to be accessible to all. Besides that, we



should consider countries such as Germany where 70% of deposits are accountable by 1500 ... [Inaudible.] ... in community and village banks, this in addition to the hundreds of municipal banks.



In China alone, they have 187 commercial banks. Commercial banks in China are state owned and they include Industrial and Commercial Bank of China, China Construction Bank. And in addition to this, they also have rural, city and regional commercial banks. There is a scope to fund our financial sector in the country so as to better serve the people so there could be women’s co-operative banks, there could be village banks, there could be municipal banks. We could look at a variety of alternatives.



Sustainable local economic development cannot be achieved without skills that would enable communities harness local endowments. This is particularly relevant as the Moerane report highlighted that as the barrier of entry to become a councillor are extremely low, any popular person without any academic or vocational qualification is able to assume such office. A skills revolution is required to ensure that the people can participate meaningfully in the economy without



relying on the five-year political term or contract from government as the only means to socioeconomic mobility.



As part of the ... [Inaudible.] ... development, the Department of Co-Operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, alongside with Municipal Infrastructure Support Agent, Misa, have partnered with institutions of higher learning, particularly the Technical and Vocational Education and Training, TVET, colleges towards piloting an initiative for a skills revolution where we train and empower our people with skills in agriculture, carpentry, plumbing, horticulture, livestock farming and other vocational skills. This workstream is led by the principal of Motheo TVET college, Prof Dipiloane Phutsisi. Work is at an advanced stage to pilot these initiatives.



This skills programme will be coupled with business incubation and entrepreneurship assistance, with an intention to assist local communities, particularly young people and women to find useful work and generate an income towards poverty alleviation. Of course, men won’t be left behind. For instance, we need to change our thinking about livestock agriculture as it can be beneficiated for sustainable livelihoods and poverty alleviation. ... [Inaudible.] ...



agriculture including but not limited to farming, livestock agriculture and poultry, and will include the entire value chain in these products, where even the high ... [Inaudible.]

... develop local tanning leather industry. [Inaudible.]


... is a practical means to ... [Inaudible.] ... condition of the people in a sustainable manner.



Our commitments within the skills revolution are transformative so that people are empowered for performance triad community engagement and creating opportunities. Along with this drive is the creation of ... [Inaudible.] that

can thrive with minimal governance. This will be teamed by harvesting existing indigenous expertise and intensifying active initiatives whilst creating new opportunities for employment and training. Collaborative participation of partners in the private sector, education and training sectors and other social partners is vital for the success and for developing and thriving local economy.



To this end, a participatory approach in the mode of the District Development Model will be strengthened. Added to the killings of councillors, this acts are often accompanied by damage to property which undermines the institutional ...

[Inaudible.] ... of municipalities. This results in the



inability of local government to deliver basic services as well as being able to attract suitable qualified people for employment.



We call on stakeholders - this including members of this House, community members to work with law enforcement agencies

... [Inaudible.] ... to get political education ... [Inaudible.] ... their members who are involved in killings.

... [Inaudible.] ... We call for all parties to settle their differences through peaceful means. On our part, pieces of legislation such as the Municipal Systems Amendment Act continue to professionalise local government to enable ... [Inaudible.] ... and to foster service delivery and public service instead of the one that is driven by the politics of patronage and personal accumulation. This will further ... [Inaudible.] ... enable our municipalities constitutional obligations. Through this amendment Act, we tend to professionalise local public administration by insulating senior municipal official’s political interference ... [Inaudible.] ... procedures and competence criteria for appointment of municipal managers and senior managers, provide for the consequence of appointments and ... [Inaudible.] ... prohibit municipal managers and other senior managers from



holding political parties ... [Inaudible.] ... employment of municipal employees dismissed for misconduct.



So, we must recall the words of President Nelson Mandela who, during the 1996 National Summit for Organised Local Government said and I quote:



    You have the task of doing whatever is necessary to ensure that our new local government system serves the needs of our communities. You have the responsibility to make their voice heard and to provide an effective instrument for them to improve their lives.



It is important ... [Inaudible.] ...citizens and communities in this fight against the killing of councillors. ...

[Inaudible.] ...they are part of the ... [Inaudible.] We


also need to ensure that there is good governance in the municipality. There’s a healthy relationship between the councillor and the administration and proper oversight. So, with those ... [Inaudible.] ...and thank you for listening.



Mr T J BRAUTESETH: Hon Chairperson, hon House Chairpersons, hon Ministers, hon members and fellow South Africans, I am a bit confused, I thought we were talking about the killing of



councillors and not the development of economic growth today which is what the Minister seem to focus on. That aside hon Chairperson, I shall begin. On 21 June 2022, I submitted a Notice of Motion and a Motion Without Notice, on this very topic that we are debating today. These motions called on the ANC to urgently intervene in the serious issue of factionalism in their organisation and also called on the governing party to curtail the bloodthirsty pursuit of resources and positions in KwaZulu-Natal. These motions called on the ANC to implement the recommendations of the Moerane Commission as mandated by President Ramaphosa.



Finally, a call was made on Police Minister, Bheki Cele, to accelerate investigations and prosecutions to stem the flow of killings in our province. Unfortunately, and sadly, to date these calls have fallen on deaf ears. Since then, two serving councillors have been brutally slain, one of them from my constituency. Two associates of the Umkhomazi, councillor were also assassinated. A senior official from Umlalazi and the close protector of a municipal manager were killed. A former ANC councillor was shot and killed in cold blood and in broad daylight in Isipingo. And in the last devastating turn of events, two policemen appeared in the dock in the Scottburgh



Regional Court, charged with the murder of the Umkhomazi councillor and his associates.



This development has led to grave concerns of the role the police in the political killings in KwaZulu-Natal. It is indeed a grim reminder of the killings fields of the 1980’s where over 20 000 people were killed in a civil war between the IFP and the United Democratic Front, UDF. And as was exposed at the subsequent Truth and Reconciliation Commission, this carnage was aided and abetted by the apartheid police force.



It would appear elements in the SA Police Service, SAPS, continue today to do the same. Before Minister Cele, goes on the rant about my possible involvement, I would like to remind him that I have never served in the SAPS or the SA National Defence Force, SANDF and I was a member of the anticonscription campaign.



However, hon Chairperson it appears that nothing has changed, except for one significant difference. The battle then was over ideology. The battle today is over positions and resources.



The reality is grim. Well, over 300 politically related killings have taken place in KwaZulu-Natal since the publication of the Moerane Commission findings in 2018.



And KwaZulu-Natal braces itself in the run up to the ANC elective conference next month and the potential fallout thereafter.



Why focus on the ANC?



The sad truth is that this scourge appears to, in large part, affect only their organisation. Only in rare instances does the violence spread to other parties. It is thus their problem to fix, as pointed out clearly by the Moerane Commission.



The ANC have to analyse the painful causes behind the slaughter. Political interference in policing is one of them. The Police Minister set up a much lauded unit to tackle the problem. The so-called berets unit. The only problem is that two members of the unit were suspects in previous killings. To add to this conundrum, most senior police officials are where they are today through political support thus exacerbating the competition for positions. This has allowed politicians to use



the police as hit squads. A grim reminder indeed of the dark days of the 80s and 90s.



This political interference could also influence the fact that, in October 2022, the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, announced that 40% of the cases on its roll related to political murders had been removed due to a lack of evidence.



In his new book, War Party, veteran journalist Greg Ardé unpacks how individuals and factions within the ANC, fighting not over ideology, but over money and power, are feeding a deadly snake-pit of violence and assassinations. In most cases, assassinations are a result of contestation for political positions and tenders. The majority of political murders are a result of contestation between individuals and factions within the ANC. In these murders, what is at stake is money and power, not ideology.



In the majority of cases, assassinations are a result of the take-over of the ANC by criminal networks, often linked to the taxi industry. Politicians, the taxi industry and the police have become enmeshed in a criminal take-over of the local state, which allows a small and violent elite to accumulate wealth at the direct expense of ordinary people.



This is brought into stark relief when one considers a former eThekwini mayor, who was described as a “gangster mayor” by grassroots activists. Under her watch, the councillor for Ward

101 in eThekwini was removed as a candidate by his party ahead of the 2021 Local Government Elections. His replacement was then assassinated and voters had to vote for a deceased candidate. Ahead of the subsequent by-election for Ward 101, the former councillor was arrested on suspicion of organising the assassination. He was nevertheless put up as the candidate and was elected. He remains the councillor despite being in custody for the assassination.



This is the kind of problem the ANC must tackle and deal with decisively. South Africa cannot afford internal wrangling’s in the ANC spilling out into the streets like the riots of 2021. I differ strongly with the Minister. This is not a South African problem; it is an ANC problem. I seriously sympathise with all the colleagues in the House who have lost friends to this scourge. However, you must clean your house. South Africa cannot afford this very serious threat to our democracy. I thank you.



Mr T S C DODOVU: Chairperson, hon Ngwenya, Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Amos Masondo, Minister of Department of Co-operative



Governance and Traditional Affairs, CoGTA, Dr Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma, hon Chief Whip of the NCOP, permanent and special delegates, MECs of Community Safety and CoGTA in different provinces, ladies and gentlemen, since yesterday immediately after the judgment of the Constitutional Court was delivered by Justice Zondo, ordering the Minister of Justice and Correctional Services to release on parole within 10-days a murderer of a century Janusz Walu?, the country was and is still filled by outright outburst, anger, outrage and disbelief, especially from the majority of the people of this country.



This outburst and outrage is eloquently expressed by my mama (mother) Dimpho Hani, the wife of Thembisile Chris Hani, who on 10 April in 1993, was brutally and cold bloodedly killed by a Nazi Polish immigrant, Janusz Walu? in collusion and connivance with the right wing racists whose intentions were to plunge our country into a civil war at the time. Twenty- nine years later, that heinous criminal act still could not escape our memories. We eye witnessed our most beloved soldier and freedom fighter, lying motionlessly in the lake of blood, where he succumbed bleeding under the cruelty of racists.

Yesterday, we were shocked that the murderer would be released



on parole in terms of the Constitution and the principles of the rule of law and equality.



Hon Chairperson, with this painful state of affairs, it is quite clear that the current parole system doesn’t assist the reconciliation project in this country. In fact, it is an antithesis of what Chris Hani stood for and it is seen to be favouring the former oppressors more than the victims of apartheid and colonialism.



Today, as we debate under the heading; Waging a concerted battle against the killing of counsellors. This is a stark reminder to all of us that many of the counsellors in this country continue to be killed in the same way Chris Hani was killed. It is therefore befitting that this afternoon hon Chair, I rise to dedicate my contribution to this debate in honour and memory of Chris Hani. The brave soldier, commander and chief of staff of the glorious people’s army, uMkhonto weSizwe, MK.



Hon Chair, undoubtedly, Chris Hani was a symbol of liberation in South Africa. His exemplary leadership, boundless virtues, sustained commitment to struggle, and abiding law for his country are some of the attributes that the people of this



country must be proud of. Rather than killing counsellors who are public representatives elected by the people in democratic elections. Those who continue to kill them for narrow and selfish interests must strive to emulate Chris Hani.



In prosecuting the struggle for national liberation, Chris Hani never saw glory or personal advancement. Instead, throughout his political life, he immensely contributed to our understanding of what it is that defines a freedom fighter and what is asked of us as we continue the struggle for a prosperous country.



Hon Chairperson, when it comes to the killings of counsellors, the latest killing is of Muzi Manyathi of Mkhondo Local Municipality in Mpumalanga, after he was shot at the petrol station this month. Councillor Moses Maluleke, the executive Mayor of the Collins Chabani Local Municipality in limpopo, who was gunned down in July this year. Also in KwaZulu-Natal, the province dubbed the killing fields in the late 1980s and early 1990s, intimidation, violence and killings of counsellors have happened in vicious ways, also confirmed by the Moerane Commission, which was established for that purpose.



Hon Chair, the killing of whistle-blower Sindiso Magaqa, who was a dynamic leader of the future remains a devastating moment, not only for the people of uMzimkhulu but for the youth of this country who he led with vigour and vitality. In the North West province, the elimination of corruption-buster Moss Phakoe, remains a painful memory for the people of Rustenburg where Moss Phakoe dedicated his life and served them with honour and dignity.



These are some of the killings of counsellors in the recent past, hon Chair. There are many other examples which can be cited to show how serious and desperate the situation is. When we look deeper into the causes of these killings, in most cases, those who are eliminated would have either reported or investigated corruption, fraud and other financial malfaecence in municipalities. Most of the killings relate to the common problems of municipalities pertaining to unauthorized, irregular, wasteful and fruitless expenditures, and as well as inter and intra-party political conflicts and the fighting for resources as the Minister spelled it out. Predominantly, in cases which have been uncovered, especially where unrests prosecutions and convictions have been secured, hidden hands on masterminds are behind these killings. These masterminds



mostly happened to be high ranking political figures who are deeply involved in tenders and supply management processes.



Hon Chairperson, it is vitally important to restore the integrity of public representatives and their role must be seen as a national service to perform in making local government work better. Their role must be seen to be to promote local democracy and governance and to ensure optimum basic service delivery to the people. These counsellors must be supported in promoting community participation, in promoting safe and healthy environments where people live and in promoting social and economic development of our people.



As we robustly deal with those who kill counsellors, it is important to strengthen local government against abuses by public representatives and demystify the public perception that a lot of financial benefits are accrued to these public representatives for being counsellors to perform national duty on behalf of the people of South Africa who have elected them.



Councillors must work very hard to ensure equitable access and distribution of local economic development opportunities to the people. And various political parties, I argue, not one single party, various political parties, must play a key role



in strengthening internal democracy and fairness in their own parties to harness the constructive political relations, both internally and externally in their parties. At the centre of dealing with this challenge, it is very much important, hon Chair, to combat the criminal syndicates which intimidate and mete out violence to public representatives as well as their public servants.



Hon Chairperson, I argue that in resolving this scourge of killings in our country, we must treat one another like brothers and sisters. We must do what a young boy did and said about his brother in Japan. During the war, the young boy was carrying his dead brother on his bed to go and bury him, a soldier noticing and asked him to throw this dead body of a child so that you not get tired. The boy replied, “He ain’t heavy Mr., he’s my brother.” The soldier understood and broke down in tears. Since then, this image of a young boy carrying his brother has become a symbol of unity in Japan. And this is what we need in South Africa.



Let this be our motto, He is not heavy, he is my brother, she is my sister. If he or she falls, raise him or her, even if you get tired, continue helping him or her. If he or she make mistakes, forgive him or her and if the world abandons him or



her, carry him or her on your back because he or she is not heavy, he or she is your brother. Don’t kill him.



Hon Chairperson, I think it is important to highlight that, - as I pointed out in the beginning that I dedicate this in the memory of Chris Hani. Chris Hani was an MK soldier. He played a pivotal role in the ANC political campaign in 1967 and in 1968. Which will go down inevitable as one of the most heroic operations in the history of MK. This battle started when the two Luthuli Detachment made up of units of uMkhonto weSizwe and the Zimbabwean African People’s Union, Zapo, guerrillas crossed the Zambezi River from the Zambian banks into Rhodesia. This was important because this was led by Chris Hani. Who at the moment is on the lips and ears of many South Africans. In the process, the Detachment, led by Chris Hani and Basil February, Patrick Mola among others battled ferociously and successfully against the South African and the Rhodesian process. And they were successful, because they were the brothers in arms, who they were fighting for the liberation of their own country.



In conclusion, hon Chair, if we do all of these things, like a Japanese boy, we would be honouring Chris Hani, who as a freedom fighter, and a communist felt very deeply any



injustice visited upon any person, whoever they were, and wherever they might have been. We must act like him, because he was driven by an abiding sense of human solidarity, a genuine empathy for his people, and a concern for the suffering of the poor and the downtrodden. He wasn’t killing them, because to him, it was quite important that for the love of his country, he must do what he did.



Chris Hani, chose to take up the struggle at the great cost to himself to confront the social, political and economic forces that oppress and exploit our people. And he was guided by a clear understanding of the strategy and tactics to bring about fundamental change to his beloved country. This in my respective view, is what we must do to deal with the challenges of the hour and wage a relentless battle against the killing of counsellors. Because they play an important role. They play an immense and immeasurable role in terms of ensuring that they serve the people who have democratically elected them.



And I still argue, there is a perennial problem that is obtained across the political spectrum. It is a perennial problem that is confronted by all of us as a country. We must forge aheads, we must develop partnerships. We must encourage



and motivate and work with the police service to ensure that they spare neither effort nor energy in terms of uprooting these killings that are perpetuated by criminals who act exactly the same way like Janusz Walu?, who did in killing our beloved soldier and our beloved leader Chris Hani.



For me, this is quite important. And I’m sure wherever he is, he will smile in affirmation that my footprints are visibly entrenched and I can see them. Because we, as public representatives, do everything within our power and means to fight the scourge of violence and killings of counsellors. And whatever and whoever is responsible, we deal with them without any favour or prejudice. We do what the law requires us to serve our people and to save our public representatives. Thank you very much, hon Chairperson.



Ms B LOBISHE (Eastern Cape): Thank you very much, hon Chairperson. Let me greet you this afternoon. Deputy Chairperson, hon members of the House, ladies and gentlemen, all protocol observed, it is with great honour to participate in this debate, a topic which is gradually blemishing our country in the eyes of the international community.



The killings of councillors and municipal officials is a worrying and perturbing phenomenon. At the onset, I would like to make it crystal clear that the ANC condemns, denounces and relives the killings of councillors, regardless of which political party a councillor belongs to. One death of a councillor is but too many!



The killings of councillors diminish the standing of our country in the international community. A syndicate of hitman is prowling in the communities. It is targeting and killing elected public representatives with impunity. An intriguing question is: Why no one is being arrested amongst those, or convicted or sentenced?



Our country has in the recent past witnessed an escalating rate of hits on councillors. It is a scary situation. The murder of municipal councillors and officials exposes the dark side of politics. Our democracy is under attack. These are not just glib words: The hail of bullets sprayed on the bodies of councillors has become a weekly occurrence!



Addressing the third council of mayors, held in East London on


23 September 2022, our hon President Cyril Ramaphosa said that more than 300 councillors have been killed in the past two



years. From 2021 to 2022, 54 councillors have been killed and the figures keep on escalating. In the Eastern Cape alone, a thorough analysis of crime statistics has revealed the biggest contributor to the murder rate were in Nelson Mandela Bay and King Sabata Dalindyebo Municipalities.



After a microscopic analysis of the pattern, a dedicated team of operatives has been deployed in the two hot spots. The Eastern Cape murder figure of councillors during the last quarter has jumped to double digits, putting it at 17%. In this 17%, the research has found that most of these murders are preplanned, premeditated and carried out on the victims while they are relaxing at their homes, unsuspecting or in the drive by.



In the past, the crime that targeted councillors was a sporadic violence by protestors. However, in the recent past, it has taken a new dimension. Political opponents within the municipal council approach and pay hitmen to go and carry out assassinations to the targets. This necessitates a paradigm shift and the beefing up of the crime intelligence capacity.



These days, week after week, we converge to convey condolences for public representatives who have been killed. The killings



of municipal councillors and senior managers should be viewed within the context of contestations for political power. It presents a direct attack on the hard-won democracy.



Hon Chairperson, the picture in the Eastern Cape is troubling. Let me quickly relay the recent killings in our province. Cllr Fundisile Rhanayi, a 49-year-old, who was water and sanitation committee member at O R Tambo District Municipality and an 18- year-old son, Siyolise, were shot dead at their Slovo Park home on 28 of September 25022. The councillor’s eight-year-old daughter escaped unharmed.



The double murder came a month after the two councillors, Sinethemba Mbedane and Lima Khumalo survived the assassination attempt in August. According to the media reports, bullets were fired at the Cllr Khumalo’s car during a drive-by shooting. The air of fear has grappled the councillors and are living in fear within their own homes, and also within their own areas of state.



Recently, two more Eastern Cape councillors were attacked. The homes of the Mayor of Port St Johns, as well as the speaker, were tossed. They only survived because they were not at home during those times.



The research commissioned by Salga has highlighted the following, increasing trends for showing how unsafe councillors live and how their lives have become: Security threats at offices and homes; councillors’ families held up in their homes; extortion of money from councillors; intimidation from gangsters related to building projects; threats for execution of official responsibilities; killings of both councillors and officials; and damages to movable and immovable property. These have been shown by Salga in their research as increasing trends.



The Acting City Manager of Buffalo City Metro survived two attempts of his life by unknown assailants and was hospitalised for three weeks. He has not recovered from the trauma. According to the reports, the killing spree of councillors is a lucrative business. The business of killing councillors is premeditated and preplanned, co-ordinated and well-orchestrated act by colleagues who work with the deceased or the victims.



Hon members, there are no killings that drive itself. I make a bold statement to say that these episodes of killings of councillors is driven by people. It is perpetrated by elites in high places. They hire hitmen to shoot councillors. The



hitmen first start by conducting a surveillance on the targets. Once they get the profile of the targets, such as home addresses, car registrations, photos and movement habits, the hitman pounds on the target unannounced and shoots to kill.



It is reported that the police have given up. As a result, the police need to be capacitated and beefed up so that these attacks cannot happen. These attack threaten the credibility of our democracy and pose a danger where society might develop intolerance, which is inimical to our democracy and erodes constitutional imperatives, in so far as it neither reflects the character of society or the will of the people. It negatively impacts on the credibility of local government as a potential area of opportunity for qualified and potential public representatives.



Hon Chairperson, the list of all of those who have died serving our country is long. What is quite unfortunate is that we are at the helms of leadership, but we are unable to assist and protect them, whilst all of this is happening under all of our watch. We, therefore, plead upon our MEC to have a special investigating team that will look upon all these threats that are posed to our own councillors. I thank you.



Ms S A LUTHULI: Thank you, Chairperson, and ...





 ...umuntu abingelele. Sihlalo isigaba soMthethosisekelo esibekelwe sona la eNingizimu Afrika asibonakali njengoba ukubulawa kwamaKhansela ikakhulukazi esifundeni saKwaZulu- Natali ukubonakala sekuchaphazeleka nakwezinye izifundazwe njengoba lokubulawa kwamaKhansela kwaqala kusukela eminyakeni ye-1996.





South Africa has been battling with politically motivated killings over the years because of its history of violence, factional battles, which mainly affect provincial local structures. According to the statistics collected by the Global Initiative on Transnational Organized Crime since 2000, there has been an increase in the number of assassinations in this country, especially since 2015. Four hundred and eighteen political hits have been recorded nationwide between the year 2000 and 2021, 213 of those hits ...





 ...enzeke kuleminyaka eyisikhombisa edlulile, ayi-118 aqhamuka kwaZulu-Natali iyodwa.





The overwhelming majority of these killings is often carried out using firearms, which demonstrates the widespread availability of illicit firearms, which are easily available amongst ...





 ... imiphakathi esihlala kuyo. Zonke lezi zibhamu eze-IFP ne- ANC ababezisebenzisa ngeminyaka ye-1980.





Our people are terrified, Chairperson. They are terrified and live in fear, so much so, that the KwaZulu-Natal Provincial Government established a Commission of Enquiry into political killings, known as the Moerane Commission, which tabled its findings in 2018. Today, as the Economic Freedom Fighters, we shall draw on the submissions made to this commission, which I will summarize as follows: That the killing of councillors is intraparty, motivated by politicians who are power hungry for positions, which put them in control of state resources and influence of tenders.






Iqembu elibusayo alikhombisi ntshisekelo ekunqandeni le mpi esithathe isikhathi eside kumaqembu ezepolitiki Kanye nabaholi bawo njengoba nokukulwa nokubulalana kuhlomulisa izimfuno zabo zamaqembu-qembu.





So today as EFF, we will make the same recommendations which we made to the commission back then: That political parties must educate their members about political tolerance and the essence of democratic contestations. For political assassinations are caused by lack of provincial leadership, battles of power and internal factions within the structures of the ANC in the provinces. Since we have seen in recent times how, that Polokwane conference in 2007, factions within the ANC have led to tensions.





Kumele amaqembu ezopolitiki azibophezele futhi aphendule ngamaphutha enziwa amalungu awo. Sihlalo kumele kube nohlelo oluqondile lokuhlungwa nendlela ezobekwa kulabo abazoba amaKhansela ukuze kuqedwe inhlansi embi yalabo abaphehla udlame nababulalayo. Sihlalo siyi-EFF kuyasethusa ukuthi sekusetshenziswe izindodla ngezindodla kule Khomishani kepha



izincomo azikaze zenzeke futhi kuze kube yinamhlanje ukubulawa kwamakhansela kusaqhubeka.





The most recent of such killings being the killing of Sindiso Magaqa,





 ... owaye ngunobhala-jikelele wophiko lwentsha lapho kwaboshwa khona abantu be-ANC okubalwa owayenguMeya ngaleso sikhathi, kuphindwe kubalwe owayeyilungu lesiShayamthetho yena ke owagcina ngokuzidubula azibulala.





The killing of eThekwini Ward 30 ANC Councillor bab’uMkhize, who was killed just days before he was supposed to contest the 2021 local government elections. Where a bi-election was held, and Councillor Mzi Ngiba was elected as Mkhize’s replacement, only for him to be arrested and charged a couple months later, with Mkhize’s murder.





Okukhombisa ngokusobala ukuthi iqembu elibusayo lisocongana lodwa.





And recently, the IFP Mayor in UMsinga Municipality was also arrested together with his bodyguards, linked to the murder of an IFP councillor and attempted murder of a second councillor in that municipality.



By-elections held in Soweto and Greytown, KwaZulu-Natal a couple months ago, were also to fill vacancies after ANC ward councillors were gunned down in the latest series of political killings. The By-election in Nelson Mandela Bay, is as a result of the same pattern, which is very worrying and scary.



Intraparty conflict seems to have distinct implications on political killings in KwaZulu-Natal. However, recent political killings in KwaZulu-Natal are associated with political feuds or factionalism within the ANC in the province. And although most of the victims are specifically from the ANC and the IFP, we've also witnessed the killing of councillors from other political parties too, Chairperson.



The murders are also often directly related to the outcome of state tenders, which are also linked to the ANC, for local councillors often have a say on how resources are allocated towards service delivery. Because our people are unemployed,



Chairperson, and for them the financial benefits and income earned from local government positions often means the difference between poverty and economic wellbeing. There exists within the ANC competition over access to resources to the extent that anyone who is considered a competitor is eliminated ...





... emini ka bha.



Chairperson, political violence remains a part of the country’s political culture and creates a climate of fear amongst our people, we as EFF, condemn the senseless and heartless killing of councillors, especially in KwaZulu-Natal and the rest of the country. Ngiyabonga. [I thank you.]



Mr M KHUMALO (Gauteng): House Chairperson of the House, hon members, the people of South Africa, the killing of councillors will solicit the round of condemnation from all us. Every day we hear stories of senseless and foulest killing of public representatives and of the struggle.



The regularity of these killings makes it almost expected. The killing of municipal councillors and the officials on the



increase in our country. Our hard earned democracy and freedom are on the verge of being reversed and eroded by killing of public representatives which is a direct attack on the Bill of Right which protect the right to life.



The debate today House Chair, evokes mixed emotions for me, on Friday, 18 November 2022 we received the news of untimely demise of Mr Denis Refentse Mangobe, a former councillor, Member of the Mayoral Committee, MMC and Chief Whip of the defunct branch of the local municipality and the head of the west rand district municipality. Respectively, who became the latest fatality of criminal elements who are running amok in our society. May his soul rest in peace.



House Chair, the killing of councillors has been on the steady increase in the last decade, as indicated by analysis of public and media reporting from 2000 to 2021.



The killings are often characterised as political, organised crime and settling of personal feuds. The killing of councillors lays bare the intricacies of criminal syndicates, political conspiracies and the involvement of the underworld of gangsterism in local government spheres.



On the set we must dispel the myth that the killing of councillors is happening in some political parties only. The killing of councillors may vary from province to province as demonstrated by various statistical analysis.



The debate should therefore be framed within the challenges of national security. According to Global Initiative on Transitional Organised Crime, the data collected since 2000 shows a sharp increase in the number of assassinations in the last 10 years.



An analysis of the emerging trends on the national picture of assassination in South Africa, shows that the taxi industry related incident are counted for the majority of the assassinations, followed by political motivated assassinations.



Many of the killings in local government are attributed to the fight of a control and access to lucrative contracts and tenders. The widespread corruption and polarised communities add to the milieu of criminal networks in local governments.



Hon members, the attack on the system of government through the killings of public representatives presents a clear danger



to the rule of law and severely undermines the legitimacy of the state, as Prof Cheryl Potgieter, Head of Gender, Justice, Health and Human Development at Durban University of Technology warned us that:



Political violence as a results of power patronage and systematic corruption is leading to a structured state becoming a failed state.



The Moirane Commission shared light on the weakness in the criminal justice system that affected the state weakness of personnel and the co-ordination of intervention and responses of the security cluster.



House Chair, the involvement of organised crime with the politicians lends credence to our support for the current work, in restoring the credibility and effective fairness of our criminal justice system.



The recruitment and association of criminal element and politician, inevitable contribute to political murderers. A slew of acquisition of complicity of politicians in the killing of councillors, is not farfetched as demonstrated by the arrest of the some of the politicians.



There’s a disturbing correlation between election as public representative and access and control of the state resources. There’s a perception that the election as a councillor equals the opportunity to access resource through tenders. This unsated and conspicuous consumption is often the results of corrupt activities.



There is a new phenomenon of construction mafias, these criminal syndicates are notorious for extorting major construction project under the guise of ensuring local economic development and beneficiation. According to Webster

Mfebe, Chief Executive Office, CEO, of the South African Forum


of Civil Engineering Contractors. In 2019, the armed gang had forced the abandonment of 84 infrastructure projects in South Africa, worth more than R27 billion in total.



The modus operandi of these criminal syndicates, it is to demand large fees, usually 30% of the total value of the project in return for allowing work to proceed. The criminal conduct has caused major disruption on our economy. This year, at least three councillors in ... [Inaudible.] ... have been shot and killed in mysterious circumstances. This has led to at least three other councillors fleeing their homes because they feared for their safety.



The killings also linked to the disruption of project aimed at improving service delivery, such as the building of schools and roads. The attacks from councillors do not affect them as individuals only, as their families often bear the brand of such attack.



More often councillors’ homes are attacked and the result thereof is force relocation due to the destruction of their properties. This does not only cause huge disruption to their lives or family members as it has financial implication as well.



We have observed increase intimidation of councillors and municipal officials and destruction of municipal property during service delivery protest. The more violence attacks the more it likely to receive media attention.



Hon members, the proliferation of illegal firearms remains the biggest challenge in the fight against organised crime. The majority of assassinations were carried out using firearms, indicating the widespread of availability of illicit firearms.



The stolen firearms from private gun owners and the public force and private security companies are often used for



attacks. The availability of the illegal firearms is partially as result of the violent of the past that our country has once experienced.



Our country has an unfortunately history of political violence, this include a culture of violent protest and political killing. There is no denying in the fact that political intolerance fuels violence.



At the local level of government, it takes place in various shapes and forms, including the scuffles in council chambers, as seen in the Tshwane Metro in the last few weeks.



Political violence is still very much part of the country’s political culture and create the climate of insecurity though at a reduced scale. The culture of violence during the protest still continues even today, as was seen in July 2021 unrest.



House Chairperson, it cannot be that we have normalize, conveying messages of condolences week in, week out due to senseless killing of public representatives. Choosing to be a public servant should not automatically mean that you are a legitimate target of criminals.



We cannot allow criminals to think that they can affect the regime change by violently removing the elected public representative through the barrel of the gun. The attack on public representatives, is the attack on our democracy and attack on our people. The attacks on public representatives will be elevated to priority crimes ... [Inaudible.] ... to receive the necessary attention.



We need to see the successful investigation that police and successful prosecution. We need a paradigm shift on how we view public representatives. Being a councillor should not require one to be extraordinary brave because of the increase risk or being killed. We are a constitutional democracy that pride itself with the adherence and respect with the rule of law. We should not be here debating strategies on waging a concerted battle against the killing of councillors, instead we should be discussing how we must improve the quality of lives for the people.



The fight against crime is a societal matter and requires all of us to stand together and say no to the killings of councillors. I thank you.



Ms A D MALEKA: Greetings to the Chairperson, Deputy Chairperson, Chief Whip, House Chairpersons, Ministers present, MECs, permanent and special delegates ...





...ngiyamangala uma ngizwa ilungu elihloniphekile uLuthuli uma lithi izibhamu ziyaziwa ukuthi ngeze-ANC ne-IFP. Ngicabanga ukuthi useyobawusizo nasemaphoyiseni njengoba enhlanhlatha efuna ababulali ukuthi izibhamu ababulali ababulala ngazo bangakuphi ngoba ngathi yena unolwazi.





As a Nation, we need to be worried about the future alienation of potential competent representatives of the people due to violence and its impact on the capability of municipal councils. Local government plays a critical role in entrenching participatory democracy at a ward level. This is crucial to ensuring that our democracy and government are people-centred. The fact that local government has structures such as ward committees and develops an integrated development plan through an extensive consultation process gives the true meaning of people's power. The needs and aspirations of the people will only be fully realised with representation representing the best amongst the communities and by public



representatives who are committed and dedicated to the development of their communities.



The social implications of councillor killings are the risk of alienating good citizens who embody the values and principles enshrined by the Constitution. The violence and targeting of councillors by criminal elements and by citizens who seek to abuse people's power will result in local government attracting citizens who are pliable to acts which do not serve the community but narrow interest, which will compromise service delivery and equitable distribution of services. With this said, we need to ask ourselves critical questions as a society on the political risks on the future trajectory of local government.



The impact of terror in a political environment also directly impacts the community's safety and security. The killing of councillors as community representatives threatens citizens' safety and security which triggers communities to have costly security measures due to insecurity and loss of confidence in law enforcement agencies. Criminal syndicates which target councillors also target and terrorise local communities. There are incidents where councillors are murdered due to their activism in fighting against crime and corruption. The murder



of such councillors represents a hurdle to creating safe communities. We call on communities to always be organised and participate in the governance of their affairs in local government because an organised and participatory community closes ranks for any abuse or proliferation of crime in communities.



We cannot debate this theme and not reflect on incidents of murders of councillors and honour the contribution of our fallen public representatives. Serving the people should always be preserved as an honour and privilege because upon the elected, the aspirations of the poor, the vulnerable and communities are their responsibilities as agents of transformation. We honour these councillors because many have died due to the exercise of people's power. We might, at times, undermine the significant role played by councillors. Still, the reality is that councillors are the only public representatives elected by their immediate communities and are closely scrutinised, live within their communities and are accessible to the people.



In the 2021 local government elections, the ANC signed a pledge with councillors to be available to their communities

24 hours a day and seven days a week. We do so because we



recognise that Councillors are the first point of departure in many of our communities. Therefore, those who represent the people make a sacrifice of service to the people.



We cannot speak of the social impact of the killing of councillors and not reflect on the social implications for the family of the councillors and their dependents. Many councillors are breadwinners in their households with families that expect social and economic support for their progression and livelihood. We need to think of the children that have lost their parents due to their political responsibility.



The cost of loss of life is immeasurable but what becomes critical is that as a society we need to not only react to the murder of councillors, but also be concerned about the implications for their families and provide the necessary support to those families whose member has sacrificed to serve the community. Today, a child of a deceased councillor might be lacking in many areas and the families of deceased councillors can also be in dire need of support. This honourable member is to emphasise the importance of ubuntu in our society and share the grief experienced by families of public representatives when such criminal acts of murder occur.



To address this problem of councillors being killed we need to embed social and political norms which negate a culture of sins of incumbency and the perception of public representative authority as an entry for abuse of public resources. The problem of killings is a problem of violence which is prevalent in our society. Violence in our society has a history, but social institutions have a critical role to play to change our society. It all begins in the family, our education system, our religious beliefs and our culture. The family is essential to teaching values and principles of life. Our education system should be critical and robust enough to transform the thinking of individuals to espouse the social and political norms which are developmental. Through the churches and synagogues, the teachings should contribute to harnessing humanity's best qualities of ubuntu and co- operation among citizens.



To strengthen local government, we need to strengthen local government councils which are central to the decision-making process. Suppose we surrender to the criminal acts and political instability causing these killings of councils. In that case we shall be ceding the power of the people to criminals and those who don’t have the people's best interest. The more we have capable citizens shying away from public



responsibilities the local government sphere will continue to attract self-serving representatives who will not contribute to the development of their communities.



We must harness a conducive environment to realise the true object of having a local government system which is people- centred and led by the best amongst the communities believing that this responsibility is critical to the socioeconomic transformation of our society.



The Auditor-General’s reports have also reflected on the level of mismanagement and poor compliance with legislation in local government, reflecting a weak system. Over the year, we have witnessed councillors who place the interest of the people in the centre and also witnessed councillors who put their interests and abuse their power, to distribute economic opportunities are distributed with their vested interest.



With the level of corruption in our society, the role of becoming a councillor has become intensely contested as local interest contests for power to advance their narrow interests. The societal perception of Councillors having access to procurement opportunities and distribution of economic opportunities, such as employment, subcontracting in the ward



or other social and economic opportunities. This has attracted many negative perceptions further intensifying the contests as various lumpen elements also seek to rise to those positions of authority for nefarious ends.



It is for this reason that proper to the democratic nature of the ANC we have introduced community participation in the selection of councillors. We did so to ensure that the people who live with our members have a significant say in selecting candidates who will place the interests of the people first. We do so because we are committed to building communities through agents of change who are tried and tested.



We call on law enforcement agencies to continue investigating cases of killings of councillors. We should be able to bring the killers to book so that those who target public representatives know that the full might of the state and the law will ensure sufficient consequences. This is critical for our political system and strengthening representativity in our democracy. We also call upon political parties to play their role in ensuring that they function in a manner that addresses the risks of being a public representative. We say no to the killing of councillors.





Sikhala kanye nayo le mizi. Sicela ilungu elihloniphekile uLuthuli ungabokhuluma izinto angeke ... [Ubuxhakaxhaka.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms W Ngwenya): Hon members, there is a network challenge and I hope hon Maleka was cut by the network.



Mr S ZIKALALA (KwaZulu-Natal): Hon Chair, hon Deputy Chair and hon Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Chief Whip, the Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Minister Nkosazana-Dlamini-Zuma, the Deputy Minister of Police, hon Cassel Mathale, hon members of this House, the topic of the assassination of councillors is important, and so, we pay tribute to the NCOP for hosting a debate on this subject.



No effort must be spared in finding the lasting solutions aimed at eradicating this shameful anomaly in our body politics. The assassination or attacks on the democratically elected representatives of the people must be seen as an assault on our democracy. It must be characterised not just as another form of crime, but as constituting elements of the counterrevolution which seeks to undermine all the gains we have made since our historic democratic breakthrough in 1994.



It is not a cliché to say freedom was not free. A supreme price was paid for our hard-won freedom and democracy. Our freedom and constitutional order are written in the blood of freedom martyrs such as Solomon Mahlangu, Portia Phila Ndwandwe, and indeed the SACP and the ANC revolutionary leader, Chris Hani. It was the spilling of Chris Hani’s blood by racist, right-wing elements who wanted his assassination to cause a civil war and postpone our appointment with history that led to South Africa moving with speed to 27 April 1994.



As we engage in this august House of the people, we again wish to pledge our unequivocal support to the Hani family and assure ‘uMama’ uDimpo Hani that we feel and understand her pain and wounds of losing a husband, a friend, a comrade and a father of her children.



As we debate these senseless killings of councillors, may we also say that the blood of Chris Hani and many of freedom fighters will not be lost in vain.



Hon members, the Sowetan newspaper on 16 November 2022 reveals the scale of the challenge we are debating today. According to this report, no less than 54 councillors and municipal



officials have been murdered since the November 2021 local government elections.



We should all be alarmed by this scourge and be mindful that these are patriots who had answered the call to serve our nation, men and women who were fathers, mothers, friends, and colleagues. We must not treat them as mere figures or statistics. They had dreams, plans, and aspirations like the rest of us and the people of the country as a whole. The murders have occurred in a number of political parties but in particular the ANC, then the IFP, and EFF.



While a perception exists that the murder of councillors is concentrated in KwaZulu-Natal, the Daily Maverick says that 10 cases have also been reported since November in the province. There is a possibility that some cases go unreported. It may be important to do a more comprehensive study throughout the country to obtain the depth of this challenge.



In recent times, we have seen an increase in the number of cases of intimidation, assault, and even attacks on physical assets owned by councillors. Some of this sound like we are regressing to the olden days when black local councillors



under apartheid were seen as collaborators and were targets of violent attacks.



The sociologist, Mary de Haas based in UKZN, suggests that councillors may have immense power in their hands to influence access to municipal resources. It is the fight over these resources, employment opportunities, and who gets tenders that seems to be at the heart of the ugly competition and murder of councillors.



As a province, we continue to emphasise the implementation of the recommendations of the Moerane Commission, which include the following: Establishing the transparent and credible public procurements system. Call on all political parties to establish rigorous process of the selection of candidate for councillorship. Ensure that political education and mass education is conducted within the political parties and in the society to ensure political tolerance and that the people understand the role of councillors. Introduce minimum qualification for public representatives.



We thus welcome the initiative of the ANC of introducing a tighter process to select councillors, which included interview processes for the selection of office bearers. We



must imbue the culture of understanding that a public representative is not just a career but a service to the people.



While we also welcome progress made in some cases by the task team on political killings we remain concern that most cases remain unresolved. We thus believe that the task team on political killings still need to heighten their effort to ensure that perpetrators are brought to books.



Hon members, the murder of councillors must also be understood within the broader environment of high murder rates and endemic violence in our country. This violence is seen through violent service protests, violence in our schools, and the high number of murder rates, including the abuse of women and killing of women. Tragically in KwaZulu-Natal, we are also faced with another challenge of the murder of amakhosi and izinduna.



The crime statistics revealed by Minister Cele in August 2022 showed that no less than 6 424 people were murdered in the three months’ period, in the first quarter of 2022-23. This is an increase of 664 people murdered when you compare to the previous year.



We know through the statistics where the murders are taking place. These must be treated as hotspots and our efforts to reduce murder rates, including the murder of councillors.

Areas such as Umlazi, Plessislaer, Inanda are some of the concerning areas within the province of KwaZulu-Natal.



Many of murders occur because of ease access or availability of guns and we know that more needs to be done to prevent illegal firearms and their proliferation from the private security industry. There is a need for a tighter regulation on gun control in our country.



The SA Local Government Association, Salga, has made a number of call, progressive suggestions such as providing security for councillors. This is one suggestion that need to be explored possibly as a short-term measure for councillors whose lives are facing the real threat of being murdered. Such a threat analysis will ensure that we are able to provide support to this councillors. And therefore, police must be able to do threats analysis with speed.



Hon Speaker, the provision of security by the state while desirable may also not be the ideal or permanent solution. We can already anticipate legitimate grievances from the



communities but also from other sectors as I have mention that even our traditional leaders are now living in hinge.





conclude, hon member.



Mr S ZIKALALA (KwaZulu-Natal): At the same time, we must focus on the programme aimed at moral regeneration promoting positive social values and building social cohesion in the society as a whole. We must value the livelihood of all people. Once again, we say Comrade Chris Hani ...





... awulalanga ...





 ... and your struggle continues. To honour your legacy and all our public representatives who have passed on we will deliver a more just and humane South Africa which all our public representatives dedicated their lives for. I thank you, hon Deputy Chair.



Mr C F B SMIT: Hon Chair, can you hear me clearly?





bit of a disturbance but you are audible. You may continue, hon Smit.



Mr C F B SMIT: Hon Chairperson, hon members and fellow South Africans, good day. Painful, sad, angry, worried and tragedy are some of the emotions that came up when I started thinking about this debate. We cannot debate this matter without acknowledging the bravery of these slayed public representatives and activists who stood up against the evil of blatant corruption at local government level. We must also acknowledge the sense of loss, pain and scars left behind for the children, wives, brothers, sisters, mothers and fathers of these slain heroes of our democracy.



I personally had a discussion with the son of Charles Mgidi, who now has to grow up with a father figure. A brave young man, polite, generous and decent. My heart breaks for him.

Worst of all is that he told me that his father’s murderer’s son was his closest friend at school and they even had the audacity to attend the funeral and share their grief. Cruel and disgusting! All that for the greed of money.



Mogalakwena Local Municipality is now famous for all the wrong reasons, which include multiple political assassinations. The list of victims starts with Leka Lekalakala, who was commemorated by his murderers to silence his family by naming the council chambers after him and giving the family money and positions.



Piet Pale, whom I personally knew and closely worked with when I was a councillor in fighting corruption. I visited his family just after his assassination to show respect, to find his car sprayed with a rain of bullets.



Charles Mgidi, as mentioned above. Vaaltyn Kekana and Ralf Kanyane who were the municipal public accounts committee, MPAC, chairperson and an activist busy with investigations into corruption and fraud were shot dead in Kekana’s car in broad daylight. The murderers even arranged for the electricity to be switched off in the area so that closed- circuit television, CCTV, cameras couldn’t capture the assassination as it happened. Again, I met Vaaltyn on the Monday afternoon just before I had to fly to Cape Town for a week in Parliament. He informed me that he was almost done with his report and would provide me with a copy and evidence by the end of that week when I returned. By the Wednesday he



was dead. Recently, a well-known lawyer and ex-Member of Parliament Schalk Pienaar was gunned down in his garage as he arrived home. He was believed to be busy with a Special Investigating Unit, SIU, investigation into corruption and fraud.



I, myself was also on a hit list not so long ago, apparently at number three to be exact, with number two being Piet Pale who was killed. I got death threats all the time and twice had my car’s front-wheel bolts loosened to an extent that the wheels wobbled. With God’s grace, the wheels never came off.

So this situation is real for all of us who fight to keep our democracy alive and fight with all we have in us to defeat these criminals of greed.



The police can’t protect you because in many instances these guys have infiltrated the police or use their influence and power to kill any investigation. Dockets disappear, deliberate mistakes are made with investigations so that cases can be thrown out due to a lack of evidence or technicalities, or witnesses are threatened and then make U-turns.



All of this can only be laid at the feet of the ANC with their government that has become one big Mafia operation. Let me



qualify this statement. You see, it starts with cadre deployment so that you have connections to pull the necessary strings in any organisation or structure. Then there is this culture of making sure that before you are let in on the looting system and its structure you should also first have some dirt or as hon Bathabile Dlamini called it before, smallanyana skeletons, so that they have leverage on each other. So it is a situation of, you don’t hurt me and I don’t hurt you, so we steal together here.



The ANC is rotten to the core and it will not change. The only change that can come is a new government that puts the people first and has the will, structure and systems in place to avoid this situation. What better example than a DA government, as the proof is in the pudding. The Western Cape, the City of Cape Town, uMngeni in KwaZulu-Natal, Kouga in the Eastern Cape, and currently we are showing the people of Lephalale in Limpopo what is possible with our Mayor Nico Pienaar, if they vote DA. At the end, the future is in your hands, South Africa. You can vote in a DA-led government in 2024. Let’s do this. I thank you.






Mnr S F DU TOIT: Agb Voorsitter, politieke mag gee toegang tot geld, besluitneming en tenders, met die burgery wat in alle gevalle moet opdok en politici wat soms met hul lewens betaal.





In September this year, President Ramaphosa announced that up to 300 councillors were killed in South Africa in the recent past. According to him, the cause of the killings varies but he focused his address on service-delivery protest action in municipalities. Mayors of municipalities were urged to ensure that free basic services are provided to the most vulnerable. Some may say that he played to the theatre.



In 2013, it was reported that there had been more than


450 political assassinations in KwaZulu-Natal since the end of 1994. In August 2016, it was reported that there had been at least 20 political assassinations in the run-up to the local government elections in KwaZulu-Natal.



The Sowetan reported that 54 councillors and municipal officials were killed since the 2021 polls. Their report indicated that ... gangsters related to building projects as well as to the extortion of families of councillors who had been held up in their homes.



Political assassinations have often been ascribed to battles around patronage within the ruling ANC. In 2013, the political

analyst, Aubrey Matshiqi’s view was that:



Since 1994, the access to political power is no longer an end in itself, but has become the means towards the achievement of other ends, particularly narrow economic gain.



He added that:



If you look at the violence in the run-up to Manguang, provincial elections or local elections, there are basically two drivers, the battle for political power and the battle for money. The two are interlinked. If you win the battle for political power, you have access to money.



He went further to say that:



The main access point to wealth in these areas is the state, through the ANC. If you win political battles in the ANC, you can then enter the ranks of the middle class, because the ANC is so dominant as the governing party, and



the state is the main platform of middle-class formation in those provinces.





Ek dink ons is dit eens dat niemand politieke moorde, wel


enige moorde, goedkeur nie. Die hartseer realiteit is dat dit wil voorkom of die wraaksug en die honger na mag en mammon,

die oorhand in die ANC en soortgelyke politieke partye gekry het.





In 2016, Minister Gwede Mantashe said, “The reality is that


selection of candidates for council is always a life-and-death issue.” The words of Thabiso Zulu, the ANC whistle-blower who had spoken out on corruption in the party is shocking. He said, “If you understand the Cosa Nostra, you don’t only kill the person, but you also send a strong message.” He added that, “We broke the rule of omertà”, saying that the ruling party of Nelson Mandela had become like the Mafia. He is fearing for his life and is now in hiding.





Hoe ironies is dit dat die President van ’n politieke party waar korrupsie, afpersing, kaderontplooiing, faksionalisme en



politieke moorde aan die orde van die dag is, ’n spesiale interministeriële komittee op die been bring om politieke moorde in sy eie party te ondersoek. ’n Spesiale taakspan wat deur die burgery se hardverdiende belastinggeld gefinansier moet word. Spesialiste, misdaad intelligensie, speurders, die Valke en ander gespesialiseerde eenhede soos die forensiese afdelings word hier betrek. Spesialis-personeel wat spesiaal aandag aan politieke moorde gee en dit terwyl sowat 68 burgers per dag in hierdie land vermoor word, sonder dat daar spesiale aandag geskenk word om hul moordenaars op te spoor.





Mr Ramaphosa defended the VIP protection availed to top politicians, Ministers, premiers and mayors that mainly belong

to the ruling party — bodyguards that costs South Africa about R2 billion per year, whilst normal South Africans have to fend

for themselves.






Skaam julle! Magsvergrype en gierigheid het die oorhand gekry. Die morele kompas is flenters.






Hon Zikalala, stricter gun control will not stop the killings. Illegal guns are used ...





... moontlik uMkhonto weSizwe, MK, wapens. Sommige Suid-


Afrikaners kan na die politieke moorde, die oorsake, hantering en voorkoming daarvan kyk en sê dat belastingbetalers se geld

gebruik word om hierdie sleutelfigure te beskerm, terwyl die faksies gedreig, ondersoek en gewysig word, onder die vaandel

van misdaad en selektiewe wetstoepassing.




Dit is tyd dat die ANC ophou om die oorsaak en blaam vir


politieke moorde op die burgery te plaas. Net soos in die Julie 2021 onrus, was die burgers nie die agigators van die

onrus nie. Hulle was daarby ingesluk. Neem verantwoordelikheid en wis die kanker van moordlus, gierigheid en politieke mag in

u eie geledere uit, Mnr Ramaphosa. Die wetsgehoorsame landsburgers is nie te blameer vir hierdie moorde nie. U

kaders is. Dankie, Voorsitter.



Mr M B STOFILE (Salga): Thank you very much Chair of the session. Greetings to the Chair of the NCOP, the Deputy Chair, the Chief Whip, the House Chairs, the Minister and the Deputy Minister, MECs that are present on this platform. Once again,



thank you very much for having us. We really thank the leadership of the NCOP for creating this space of discussions, and it confirms that the House is the House that accommodates all three spheres of government, to drive collaborations and co-operative governance.



Indeed, the co-operative governance is in action by having a moment to reflect and debate on challenges that are faced by local government in today’s life. Really, we really appreciate that SA Local Government Association. It is a pity though because I thought this sitting will be a physical, because I’ve directed the acting CEO to invite the affected families to be part of this discussion, and listen to the Parliament that they’ve elected in various cycles of elections, in dealing with the pain and difficulties that they are facing since they've lost their loved ones in the recent past.



Our concern and discussion on this point, is about really looking into the past and mirror the past into the current, with an intention to build a future that is going to be brighter and promising to the local government practitioners, and generally to the communities. It is a common knowledge that over a period of time over 300 plus counsellors have been killed. Since November this time up until to date, it’s over



54 counsellors that have been killed, and municipal managers and officials that have been threatened, including the chiefs and kings of our country that have been already threatened and killed one way or another.



This then says, looking into the Moerane Commission, which there were reasons for it to be established and really thanking the government of KwaZulu-Natal in spending a significant time, in looking into the problems in KwaZulu- Natal. Part of the recommendation then says, we need to train, develop and politically engage and select individuals of capacity.



Let’s ... [Inaudible] ... today, today you are only nine to 12 months since elections, and you have gone through processes of elections as various political parties contesting elections, and you have identified candidates and counsellors. In our belief, you have identified what you believe is suitable qualified individuals to perform the task at hand. Then the question is, why will then between the November 2021 to date,

54 counsellors and municipal officials have been ... maimed?


What else should then be done? Is it maybe because of the level in which local government is viewed in the public eyes by many including those that are in leadership? Is it not then



about time that those that claim to be leadership, part of looking into the challenges that local government is facing, is to look on the positive and couple that with the recent past decision of the National Executive Committee of SA Local Government Association, Salga, that going into the future in this term, it is important to professionalise local government.



How possible will we be able to professionalise local government when a City Manager of Buffalo City Metropolitan Municipality was hailed over nine to 11 bullets? A city manager that is supposed to render services in communities. This to us then says, there is a different way that we need to look at. One of the ways that we need to look at is the time that is taken when case - studies that were conducted as Salga over these years proved to us that, many of these individuals that have been killed have reported the case in numerous occasions to the police.



I am not surprised in the motion that was presented earlier on I think the hon member from the ANC, about the two police officers that have been arrested on their contribution on killing of councillors or municipal councillors. Therefore, it then says, that is why they need to give an explanation, why



when a matter has been reported to police, it takes ages for it to be dealt with. I’m saying this underscoring the Deputy Chair to thank Minister Dlamini-Zuma and Minister Cele and the department, for a swift response on the and abduction and the capturing of a municipal manager in Mpumalana the recent past. We need to appreciate that effort and ...





... ukuhamba kwabo bathathe igxadu lokubonisa ukuba bangurhulumente wokukhusela abantu , nabantu abahluphekileyo abangenanto. Iinjongo zabo kukukhusela iimali nentsebenzo yoburhulumente basekhaya.





We need to appreciate that. As an association, we are not really ashamed to appreciate the good work done and led by Minister Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma and Minister Cele. What we are then calling as Salga is that, it is important and it is doable that, when a case is reported time lag to investigate and determine the possibility and prospects of such claim to be done. It can be expeditiously handled in such cases including the issues pertaining to matters of cases that have been brought and have not been concluded. It is a matter that it can be dealt with and address them.



The other issue that we wish to bring - I know many people believe that Minister Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma in the in the input that she made went to economic issues. Here the trick is that, the local government - unfortunately most of you probably have been counsellors for time for some time, local government is a centre of service delivery and where all national and provincial plans find expression in local government. Therefore, it requires support.



Where we agree on what Minister Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma has made is that, can’t we look differently as the lawmakers. Why do we create tenderpreneur beneficiaries in the process that their intention is not to render service, but to threaten the municipal practitioners to pay for services that have not been rendered? Is it not about time to review and relook into that. I think Minister Nkosazana Dlamini-Zuma and where I also agree with is that, it is important that as we focus on the general problems that are faced by local government, also local government is faced by the deteriorating economic and collapse of the economic situation in the in the world and thereby have a negative impact into local government.



Therefore, in part of the intervention of course is not everybody that can be employed in the local space, but it can,



facilitate the processes in which it creates opportunities for other individuals to perform their duties. Now, the other issue that we wish to bring to this House is that part of dealing with the service delivery, and part of making sure that local government does function to the best of their ability, supported by the National Council of Provinces and various spheres of government, in making sure that the local government practitioners do perform their duties.



Chair, two last issues are that, the families are looking to us as government and the families are not looking at us to blame one another. They are looking at parliamentarians that have elected. That, parliamentarians will tell the match out of these debates with solutions to the challenges they are facing.



Part of the challenges is to increase security provision to municipal practitioners, so that they are protected in doing what they’re supposed to do. I am talking about individuals that have committed themselves in this recent term of office. Individuals that are committed to deal with matters that affect our committees, including the matters improving on SA Special Risks Insurance, Sasria, so that the counsellors as we know and as I’ve said in KwaZulu-Natal that, our obituary is



written, is waited only for a day and tomorrow is no more, because the environment and the situation in which we are operating as local government practitioners in the local state, is so appalling and it is dangerous. Therefore, we won’t achieve our objective of professionalization of local government, because it will be the centre of death and there will be no one will come to local government.



Therefore, I agree with the view that says, if we don’t deal with this matter, it is a threat to democracy, it is a threat to the choice of people. Therefore, there will be no one will have aspire to come to local government, except those that have a heart of steel. Thank you very much Chair.



Mr V R SHONGWE (Mpumalanga): Deputy Chair hon Lucas and all the Presiding Officers of the NCOP, as well as the members of the executive who are part of this debate, and also to recognise the Ministers and Deputy Ministers and everyone who is part of this debate, I want to greet you, through you, Deputy Chairperson.



I want us to engage with this topic that has been put by the NCOP to talk about. We must look at the history of our country, and where we are coming from. We are coming from the



history of this country under an apartheid government which has ruled this country for over 300 years, and violence was the order of the day.



We must remind ourselves that also included the culture of political killings. The issue of Vlakplaas that all of you are aware of, is the killing of our former comrades who were fighting for the freedom of this country. You will remember on your way to Eswatini in Piet Retief, today we are talking about the late Chris Hani and it has opened wounds in our people. That is also contributing to the situation of this country and the killings, politically and otherwise and I think it is very much important that, as a country, when we talk of killings, whether the killings of councillors and the killings of any persons in any category, is a killing of a human being.



We must teach our different societies, all of us, about where we're coming from for us to be a country. It starts with me as Mr Shongwe with my family and how I grew up, my family, how I make my children responsible and some of the families of this country, we’re quite aware, whatever they speak when raising their kids is only venom they are teaching to their growing kids. So it is important that, as we are talking about this



particular topic, let's look at ourselves as a mirror. What is it that we are producing? Go back to your own home, in your own house. Check what you are teaching your children, your family, your friends, your neighbours and everyone else who is around you.



So some political killings in our country continue to be linked to interparty conflicts that have started at a particular time. However, political killings since the end of apartheid are mostly linked to local political rivalries in connection with criminal networks, notably some of them in the taxi industry. Some are influenced by drugs that are coming with foreigners into our country. There are a lot of elements that are contributing to these killings. What we need to do is not blame the system of the government of the day, it is to make sure that whatever we do we take responsibility. We become human beings, not animals. Every time, what we say and what we do.





Uma size la eNdlini yeSishayamthetho se-NCOP sikhombisa ukuqhosha ...






... that some members are displaying ...





... sikhipha ushevu emlonyeni yethu ...





 ... it’s what the nation of this country is seeing. Most people are watching channel 408 now. They are listening to us fighting amongst ourselves in a very irresponsible way, which is contributing to the violence.





Ngakhoke kubalulekile uma size lana ukuzoba nenkulumo- mpikiswano ngokubulawa kwamakhansela sihlukane nokuthi sisole i-ANC, sisole i-IFP, sithi isibhamu ngeze-ANC, izibhamu ngeze- IFP, sesikhohliwe yini kwakunezibhamu zesikhathi sobandlululo ezinye zazo ...





 ... are not accounted for up to now and we don’t know what is happening with them. We have received, through the Department of the Presidency and all security agencies that some communities ...





... abeke izibhamu emakhaya ...





 ... preparing for war in this country. What do you expect when you find that particular community training kids to prepare themselves for war? A war against who, as South Africans?





Bese sibuya la sizothi u-Janus Walu? makathole ushwele ...





 ... because the Constitution and the laws of this country are allowing him to get that parole. It is very much important when we debate and we talk about violence we look randomly at where this violence is coming from. The violence didn’t come with the ANC, and it did not come with the IFP. Some of you who are trying to be smart, nice, and gentle in this debate, you may find that you are contributing immensely to this violence in this country. It is very much important in accounting for the phenomenon of political killings in South Africa, political offices may become be seen as the primary vehicle in acquiring financial assets and security.



Political office is perceived as a source of broader leverage. One may be able to use one’s influence to hire members of one family to secure jobs or houses. Political favours of this kind may be used more generally as a means of establishing a relationship of patronage and that does not only happen with the ANC or the IFP. It happens with some of these political parties that are here, debating today, trying to be the innocent people in this debate.



It is very much important, as we debate here look at the history of where we are coming from. We look at what we are contributing to this violence. One of our councillors at Mkhondo was killed recently. The security agencies in Mpumalanga ...





... ayasebenza ...





 ... tirelessly to look for those killers, and I can assure the House today here, that ...





... amaphoyisa ...





 ... under Lt-Gen Manamela are very close to breaking that case. We are working in Mpumalanga, and making sure that we are fighting any person who is inflicting violence against other people whether they are white, black, pink or green.





Kubulewe isivakashi saseJalimani.





We have arrested one and recently we have arrested another three from Badplaas. As Mpumalanga we do not want to tolerate any violence in any form and from any political party and I do not want anyone else when we debate here to level the blame on the government of the day because we are coming from a worse government than the government of the day. Thank you very much, Deputy Chair.



Mr N M HADEBE: Political violence has no place in a democratic society, which values human rights and above all the right to life. In the past few years, there has been an upward trend of political killings, with the assassinations of councillors and those standing for public office.



It is alarming that since the last local government elections,


48 councillors have been killed, this shows the crisis that we are in. The SAPS, SA Police Service, needs to do more to solve the murders of councillors, action is needed and communities need closure and a renewed sense of security.



The lack of action by the SAPS aids a culture of impunity and normalised criminal behaviour. We cannot put a price on human life, especially with the rising phenomenon of so-called protection fees and bounties being placed on the heads of councillors.



More than 300 councillors have been killed to date. Surely this requires the SAPS to assemble a task team to speed up investigation efforts, as cases are building up with very few being resolved. It is worrying that municipal by-elections are being called much more often, as a result of the killing of municipal councillors.



Salga has highlighted that there is a visible link between political killings and corruption, with the targeting of councillors often to enrich the persons ordering the assassination, as to gain access to municipal funds and resources and influence the tender process.



Politically motivated violence is one of the leading threats to electoral democracies, particularly to emerging democracies such as ours, which is still considered relatively young. It is not unexpected that many African states face high risks of electoral violence due to poor socio-economic conditions that create competition for controlling economic resources. This is more so in South Africa with a large unemployed population.



Just recently on the 19th of September iNduna yeSilo, Dr Khumalo was assassinated in KwaZulu-Natal, yet the investigation has been moving at a glacial pace. The act of this assassination speaks to criminals being emboldened to act with impunity and teaches others that they can in the literal sense commit murder and get away with it.



As the IFP we are extremely concerned about the brutal killings of izinduna, amakhosi and councillors, especially in the Kwa-Zulu Natal and Gauteng provinces. The state of lawlessness that exists in these provinces and the country at large can no longer be tolerated.



I would like to close with this quote from the founder of the IFP and longstanding Member of Parliament His Excellency



Prince Mangosuthu Buthelezi who said when he addressed IFP Councillors on 12 July 2012 in Pinetown:



“When you choose to represent a political party, you are not taking a job. It is not a nine-to-five position, with a salary, that you can leave when a better offer comes along. It is a vocation that must become part of your identity. When you walk through your community, you are not getting from point A to point B, you are looking for opportunities to serve and uplift. When you speak to the people, it’s not to catch up on the latest gossip, but to hear their needs and find ways to meet them. Being a leader means living intentionally, knowing that your words, actions, behaviour and attitude are constantly being watched and evaluated.”



We need strong decisive leadership to deal with this crisis, otherwise our democracy may not survive.



Hon Deputy Chairperson, lastly the mayor of Msinga was charged with failure to lock away firearm in a prescribed safe as well as handing over a fire arm to a person who is not permitted to be in possession of a firearm.



Lastly, the statement that firearms that are involved in political killings in some parts of this country belong to the IFP and the ANC is reckless and thoughtless and I call upon the hon Luthuli to desist from speaking in riddles. Thank you hon Deputy Chairperson.



Mr M NHANHA: Thank you very much hon Deputy Chairperson and hon members. Today’s topic under discussion is probably one that cuts across the ideological and political divide and it should compel us to speak in unison and it is so right that speak after speaker has condemned and called for action against these senseless killings of public representatives.



Hon Deputy Chairperson, it should have been more befitting if the scope of this debate was extended to also cover the killings of civil servants in the course of duty. In this regard, I recall the whistle blower Jeff Giant Budaza from Makhanda Municipality who was killed a few months ago. Often after they have risked their careers to expose corruption, the end up paying with their lives.



Despite the prevalence of killing of councillors in one or two provinces, the Eastern Cape has not been spared either. On the 16th of September 2022, an independent ward councillor



Fundisile Ranai from Ingquza Hill Municipality and his 18- year-old son were Siyoliso were killed at their home in Lusikisiki and hon Lobishe has spoken on this matter.



Hon members, what is even more sad is that councillor Ranai’s eight-year-old daughter witnessed her father and older brother murdered being murdered by two gun men but she miraculously survived the horrific attack. This young girl has not only been robbed of a father but a provider, a breadwinner, and a protector. She now has to live with the images of that fateful night for the rest of her life with a bleak future being a realistic prospect for her.



Two more independent ward councillors as hon Lobishe has mentioned from the same municipality survived separate attacks and are now living in undisclosed locations in fear of their lives. It is clear to me that these attacks on only independent ward councillors were carried out to undermine the democratic will of people of Ingquza Hill and force by- elections.



Nelson Mandela is no stranger to assassinations. Members of this House will recall the deadly spade in which 16 people



were killed in a space of four months over a R21 million drain cleaning project.



In February and May this year, councillors Mzwandile Booi and Andile Andries, both from Nelson Mandela Bay were killed in separate incidents but both incidents were closer to an ANC elective conference. Twenty-four hours before councillor Booi’s murder, a former councillor Mazwinini was shot and wounded.



Hon members, as you would know that every habit has its root somewhere, the spade of killings of councillors in Nelson Mandela Bay was preceded by numerous threats and intimidation of DA councillors. It has become a practice in Nelson Mandela Bay that before council meetings, DA councillors particularly from Motherwell should be moved to places of safety fearing kidnapping for them not to attend council meetings. Despite being reported to the police, very little has been done.



Hon members, is it not ironic that the ANC in this House introduced this debate whilst in fact the use of intimidation has a tactic towards that of competition can be traced directly to the governing party?



Siyamthemba Jezani’s house, a candidate for tomorrow’s by- elections in Ward 38 in Inyanga in the City of Cape Town was recently stoned by people who were wearing ANC t-shirts in an attempt to intimidate the candidate. He is now in hiding fearing for his life.



Hon Shongwe and Minister Dlamini-Zuma, this is not a South African problem but an ANC problem. With the support and rejection of the governing party and the 2024 general elections on the horizon, there exists a real prospect of these acts getting intensified.



The killing of councillors does not only take away a family member but a provider and therefore the dependants of the councillor who die in active service, I want to suggest that Salga should investigate possible avenues to provide for these children until maturity age or complete a junior degree or an equivalent qualification at the most.



Deputy Chairperson, secondly, members of the South African National Defence Force and members of the SA Police Service who die in the line of duty are given fitting send offs and honoured in various ways, I would like to propose that the Department of Cooperative Governance and Salga should



investigate a set standard that will serve as a guide when the unfortunate happens to a councillor.



Hon Shongwe, you have no mora authority to lecture us about how we should conduct ourselves in a debate. We do not serve as Members of Parliament under you free will, we were elected by our constituencies. So, stick to the script. Thank you, bye bye.



The DEPUTY MINISTER OF POLICE: Thank you, Chairperson of the session, the Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Masondo, the Deputy Chair of the NCOP, hon Lucas who is chairing the session, the Chief Whip of the NCOP, Ntate Mohai, Ministers and Deputy Ministers present here, members of the NCOP, members of executive council, MECs, present and representatives of provinces that are here, the representative of the SA Local Government Association, Salga, represented by a Counsellor Stofile, the leadership of the SA Police Service, government officials, ladies and gentlemen, during the Salga council of mayors conference held in September this year, President Ramaphosa rang the alarm on the concerning rise of the killing of ward councillors. He said, I quote:



We have seen a deeply disturbing trends of attacks on councillors and municipal administrators. I’m told that more than 300 counsellors have been killed in the past few years by virtue of being councillors.



While this statement from our President made many quotas of society sit-up and take notice of this growing and worrying trend, the President’s words rightfully shown the spotlight on the ruthless and heartless killing of ward councillors and other municipal administrators.



Hon members, it will and must never be that the ruthless killing of anyone holding a certain position in government or the private sector is accepted or tolerated. To this effect, the SA Police Service has put in place several mechanisms to ensure the safety of councillors through prevention methods which includes the utilisation of informers for identification of criminal groups and the operationalisation and utilisation of all crime intelligence information.



This are some of the tools that have been proven useful for the police service in its investigation and prevention work. Police have also been able to conduct stop-and-search operations and recovered firearms and arrested suspects before



the commission of such crimes. It is through the eyes of dedicated police work investigating these types of killings that some trends and patterns and motives have been identified. We are wiser to the fact that councillors and even candidate councillors are eliminated for positions. These killings are associated with inter or intra political party activities. Some of the murders are linked to disputes within municipalities over community development projects and tenders. These community development projects or tenders are not linked to the term of office for the political party.

However, when there is a change in political structures there is often resistance which leads to disputes. The KwaZulu-Natal province remains the epicentre of political killings including the elimination of councillors and political opponents.



Hon members, alive to the theme of this debate at this august House the SA Police Service continues to wage a concerted battle against the killing of councillors. The escalation of political related incidents in KwaZulu-Natal in 2018, led to a decision by President Ramaphosa to in establishing an Inter- Ministerial Committee consisting of Ministers of State Security, Defence, Justice and Correctional Services as well as the Minister of Police who also chairs the Inter- Ministerial Committee. I hear members here calling for



establishment of committees and I say to myself where they stay because this has been done in 2018, by President Ramaphosa when he came into office.



The fundamental mandate of the Inter-Ministerial Committee, IMC, to implement urgent and co-ordinated interventions in ensuring that the perpetrators of politically related crimes are brought to book. It is against this background that the committee convened its first meeting on 21 May 2018, Deputy Chairperson. In July of the same year an integrated multidisciplinary task team consisting of the police, National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, supported by state Security Agency and Correctional Services, premier and MECs for Community Safety and Liaison was established in 2018, not today as we are debating this matter. The task team has to date allocated and currently investigated 302 dockets in line with the approved criteria in which 329 arrests have been made, people have been arrested who have been engaged in these activities. This team has a 57% detection rate, 43% court rate and 85% conviction rate. We are clearly at work dealing with criminality because those who are engaging these activities are nothing else but criminals. It is clear that the KwaZulu- Natal political task team operates without fear, favour or hesitation.



I have heard one hon member here from the Democratic Alliance who is saying that police are working with those who kill councillors citing an example of Mogalakwena where councillor Valtyne and others were murdered. There are people who are as we speak debating this matter today here who are in court arrested by the SA Police Service, the Directorate for Priority Crime Investigation, DPCI, that is leading those processes. Therefore, it’s a lie that police collaborate with killers. Those who are going through court now and those who have been convicted did not voluntarily go there and hand themselves. They were arrested by the sterling work that the South African police, the Inter-Ministerial Team of Ministers including the task team that is comprised of SAPS, Security Agency and the NPA is hard at work in this regard. While the team remains fully fledged in the KwaZulu-Natal plethora to have similar teams in other provinces where we have seen similar killings such as Gauteng, Mpumalanga, Eastern Cape and Limpopo provinces. Limpopo province registered five cases of murder of councillors and 17 people have been arrested for their respective roles in the killings and they are answering to the courts on charges ranging from murder, attempted murder, conspiracy to murder and unlawful possession of firearms and ammunition.



In the Western Cape police are still investigating the murder of a female councillor in Nyanga who was gunned down in July 2021. While Eastern Cape police have arrested seven suspects for the murder of five councillors since 2018 to date.

Mpumalanga police are investigating seven such murder cases and so far 16 people have been arrested since 2018, and I just want to confirm what hon MEC from Mpumalanga has just said here in terms of the work that they are doing. Yes, indeed, work is being done. Gauteng province saw seven cases with only two arrests. We all can agree, hon members, that Gauteng province will have to strengthen their efforts in this regard. Whether it is pockets of political intolerance that is demonstrated by some political role-players or insecurity battle for power and resources or simple greed, it is clear that this is criminality and it must be treated as such. For us as law enforcement it doesn’t matter what the motives are, this is intolerance and continuous efforts to undermine the rule of law and we have and continue to act on the criminal elements and arrest those who plot the killings and those who pull the trigger.



As I conclude, I wish to remind this august House that the successes of the task team in KwaZulu-Natal and overall SAPS investigation should inspire us as Members of Parliament, but



as South Africans as a whole that such cowardice crimes are not going to go unpunished. Furthermore, regardless of political affiliation law enforcement continue to do its work without fear or favour. Of course, we appreciate the role that communities are playing in ensuring that they collaborate and assist the police in identifying some of the perpetrators because it is through the collaboration with the communities that will be able to succeed in this ... [Inaudible.] The political team continues to make inroads in the efforts of arresting those who use violence to settle political scores.

The arrest of hitmen and removal of firearms in the wrong hands is encouraging. Working without fear or favour the task team in KwaZulu-Natal has also not neglected to uproot individual elements within the SA Police Service who are involved in such killings.



To date a total of over 40 police officers have been arrested for their involvement in the killing of counsellors and other political players. We continue to encourage political tolerance by individuals and parties whether before during and after the election period and beyond. Lastly, a call is also made to all of us politicians and the political parties we serve to strengthen mechanisms to diffuse inter or intra party tensions and instability that often escalates and lead to



political attacks and killings. Thank you, Chairperson for allowing us to participate in this important debate that our country is faced with. The challenges before us we have a capable leadership led by the President. We are ready to tackle whatever challenge is there head-on and we are certain that we shall overcome. Thank you very much.



The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much, hon Deputy Minister Mathale. Before we come to hon Mthethwa I just want to hear from hon Lerule-Ramakhanya. You were on the speakers list but not available at that stage. Are you still prepared to participate in the debate, hon Lerule?



Ms M M LERULE-RAMAKHANYA (Limpopo): Thank you, hon Deputy Chair, yes, I think I should be able to share the thoughts of the province.



The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Then you may continue. Hon Mthethwa, you will still be the last one before the hon Minister responds. Hon Lerule-Ramakhanya, it is you now.



Ms M M LERULE-RAMAKHANYA (Limpopo): Thank you, hon Deputy Chair. Let me also greet all the hon members on the platform, the Chairperson of the NCOP. Let me equally appreciate the



debate as I have been listening, but for the Limpopo province, hon Deputy Chair, I can confirm that we do not have many cases that we have seen regarding counsellors being targets, but at the same time we have what we classify as high profile cases at our security level. These are classified as high profile cases because in their nature there is intimidation to individual members that are leaders in municipalities, both political and administratively. This is mainly caused by, firstly, the Limpopo province is one province that is attached to two boarders and a lot of farms where there are people who have access to guns that cannot be accounted for. Secondly, we are still a province where many people have licenses for guns and you can never be able to know how often are they stolen, but we always keep a record at our police stations if there are guns that are stolen so that they can be traced and they are not used illegally.



We also see these when there are high tensions in a community, mostly with new political parties like in the case of Mogalakwena before the killings of counsellors. Even though people might want to say that the community was up in arms but when new political parties want to establish themselves we see high tensions where new people who want to come into the space threaten those in power to make way for them. So, we have high



profile cases that we are currently dealing with that are scams where the perpetrators will use phones of the victims to make calls and send out threats to others. Sometimes they highjack people and use their phone to threaten other people.



Otherwise, hon Deputy Chair, in the province like the Deputy Minister indicated, we do have programmes that we run. We have the stop and search that we do early in the mornings and also randomly when there are people that have been identified. They are then followed and arrested. We also have the joint operation by all security forces. We should also note that in Limpopo we also have structures that are under farm watch that are also part of the security forces that assist us in tracing some of the guns when we are at these stop and searches. I think that will be my contribution in terms of the programmes that we are doing as a province. Thank you for your indulgence. When I was being called I was not yet in but you gave us the opportunity as a province. Thank you, Deputy Chair.



Mr E M MTHETHWA: Deputy Chairperson, greetings to everybody in the platform today. May I start by indicating that I have tried to move to another spot where there is a little bit of



network, you might hear the sound at my back, it is because I was trying to connect after I was disconnected.



Deputy Chairperson, the killings of councillors is a serious concern for all of us. These killings are a threat to our hard-earned democracy and they disrupt the primary responsibility of councillors which is to provide basic services to our people at the local government level. In this regard, I was listening to the president of South African Local Government Association, SALGA, Mr Stofile, when he made his input today and said, and I quote:



These attacks threaten the credibility of our democracy; pose a danger where society, in general, might develop intolerance, which is inimical to our democracy, erode our constitutional imperatives in so far as it neither reflects the character of our society or the will of the people, and it negatively impacts the credibility of local government as a potential area of opportunity for qualified and competent public representatives and prospective employees.



Indeed we agree with the observation by the president of SALGA, Mr Stofile, that these killings undermine our statehood



and create mistrust between the people and their government. Councillors are not objects in political battles but men and women who have families, who have friends and relatives.

Councillors are patriots that dedicate their lives and energies to serve the people of this country.



It is worth noting that these killings of councillors target councillors across the political divide. I agree with what Deputy Minister Mathale said earlier on that this is a South African problem. Those who cannot see it I don’t know which land they are living in. In this regard, the Daily Maverick newspaper 168 reported that by 12 September 2022 at least 10 councillors had been murdered by then. These includes two IFP councillors, six ANC councillors, one independent candidate and one EFF councillor, according to the report. I wonder those that are saying these are killings of the ANC where are they getting this. Are they saying IFP is killing each other or ANC is killing each other, and why are they not going to police stations? Comrade Bheki Cele has been asking people to come and report if they have evidence and not just come and present it here.



It is worth reiterating further what the president of SALGA said that:



The killing of councillors and municipal officials is not a local government matter that can simply be resolved single-handedly. There is a need to marshal society in its entirety to go back to the basics – where there will be respect for human life and democracy. The killing of councillors takes place in the backdrop of a violent society where human life is no longer valued.



The points raised here are of significance for this debate and we should act on these observations if we are to deal with the challenge of the killing of councillors. One of the key factors highlighted that contributes to the killing of councillors is the whole issue of the inherited culture of violence in our society. We come from a history of lawlessness and anarchy in our country. The violent system of apartheid has entrenched a dangerous habit of resolving socioeconomic challenges through violent means. The logic of murder, assassination and kidnapping of political opponents has been part of the apartheid regime’s DNA.



We are reminded of the words of former president Thabo Mbeki on the occasion of the inauguration of the president of the Republic in 2004, where he reflected on the brutality of the apartheid regime, and said:



For too long our country contained within it and represented much that is ugly and repulsive in human society. It was a place in which those who cried out for freedom were promised and rewarded with the gift of the cold and silent grave. To rebel for liberty was to invite torture, prison, banishment, exile and death. It was a place in which those who were enraged knew that to kill those who promised freedom for all was to rid the world of the anti-Christ. To achieve their purposes that they considered holy, they did not think it wrong to murder children or to accumulate weapons of mass destruction, with a little help from their friends.



As a democratic government we are at the receiving end of these barbaric acts of the criminal regime of apartheid. It will take time for us to remove these acts of violence from the psyche of our people. But we shall not give up; we shall do anything — I mean anything — in our power, both individually and collectively, to deal with this challenge of the killing of councillors and killing of our people in general.



As we know, the diagnosis of a disease begins with its prognosis. We should therefore dig deep into the root cause of



the factors that contribute or lead to the killing of councillors. There are a number of questions that require to be answered if we are to deal with the killing of councillors. Amongst these questions is whether councillors are killed or targeted for political reasons. Meaning is there an ideological battle that contributes to the killing. Another question is whether the position of the councillor in the affairs of the local government exposes the councillors to be targets of the killers.



In answering these questions and many others, it will be best to refer to the findings of the Moerane Commission of Inquiry report, as hon Sihle Zikalala talked about, that investigated the killing of councillors in KwaZulu-Natal. While the report focused on the province of KwaZulu-natala, it will however shed some light on this phenomenon of the killing of councillors as he expanded on it.



The report found that these killings involved mainly councillors, potential councillors, and branch leaders of political organisations. This is important as it highlights that the problem lies with the political players. The report further found that the election into a political position of councillor gives one political power which creates the



opportunity for access to resources through tenders and other financial avenues, leading to corruption, crass materialism, and conspicuous consumption.



Lastly, the report found that election as a councillor allows for upward mobility in financial and social status.

Consequently, the loss of the councillor position leads to a corresponding loss of the financial and social status. The report makes no reference to ideological differences as a contributing factor to the killings, except that we have witnessed ideological tensions in our country in the past. So, what are the killings about?



Looking closely at the factors outlined in the finding of the Moerane Commission, it would seem that at the centre of these killings of councillors is the socioeconomic battle. It means that being a councillor is seen as a way of dispensing resources and patronage. As highlighted by the other speakers, it is seen as a ladder to move out of poverty and elevate one’s status in society. Therefore, when dealing with the killing of councillors, we should pay particular attention to the socioeconomic challenges we face as a country. The high level of unemployment, poverty and inequality seem to be among the causal factors contributing to the killing of councillors.



The reality is that we may not be able to reduce the unemployment rate to the desired level as outlined in the National Development Plan, NDP, especially in these current economic conditions. Again, it will take time to have many South Africans to acquire the necessary skills to increase their chances of getting meaningful employment and so not rely on political networks for their breakthrough in terms of careers.



For now, we have to strengthen the capacity of the police and law enforcement agencies to deal with crime in general and the killing of councillors and other killings in particular. This requires the necessary resources for the police and the collaborative efforts by all of us in society to assist the police in fighting crime. We need to strengthen the whistle- blower programme and encourage South Africans to report the criminal activities they are aware of and be provided with the necessary whistle-blower support.



Political parties, as recommended in the Moerane report, should assist in entrenching the culture of democratic values and the respect for the rights of others and the respect for the rule of law amongst their members. Political parties should address and support the socioeconomic challenges faced



by their members in a more transparent manner to avoid this deadly competition for positions. The last call is for the professionalisation of the public service to adhere to the legislative prescript without fear or favour in a transparent manner, especially when dealing with issues of tenders.



I want to call for the last time all those that have presented evidence here to phone hon Bheki Cele to give that information. Police have been asking for it for many years and members are not coming forth but decide to come and grand stand in a platform like this. We really condemn those that grand standing here. I thank you, Deputy Chair.





AFFAIRS: Deputy Chair of the NCOP, ... [Inaudible.] ... painful debate because it is painful to talk about fellow councillors and officials and others who got killed in the line of duty. But it is also clear from when we read the report that the killings are because of fierce competition to get into the local sphere of government. To have access to the resources, and these also leads to a network of patronage.

That’s one area. But also, it highlights the fact that it is easy to be elected, in terms of being as a councillor.



You don’t need high level of qualifications, but you need to be popular in your area. And so, it is possible with this fierce competition that people will kill in order to get to that position, and in order to have access to those resources. And for financial and political ... [Inaudible.] ... And we really ... [Inaudible.] ... that this is ... [Inaudible.] ... and our condolences will always go to the families and friends and colleagues of those who get killed. The Deputy Minister of Police has explained what the police are doing about the killings. And of course - in my input - I was trying to show what at our level - because we are not the police - we are trying to do.



I want to also say to the hon Brauteseth that you cannot divorce violent crime and the economic situation because as I have said, it is international research that shows that violent crimes goes hand in hand with inequality. South Africa is a violent society. The killing of councillors is taking place within the context of a violent society. Yesterday we were talking at the Men’s Parliament about the killing of women. So, we can’t divorce the two. That is why I chose to speak more on how we can change the status quo so that fierce competition becomes unnecessary and I knew that the colleagues



from the police would be talking about the statistics, and about what they are doing in terms of the police.



Just to show that inequality does really lead to a violent society; I was looking at the 50 most violent cities in the world and Cape Town is number 11, and the first ten are mostly Mexican cities. And Cape Town is a very unequal city. We all know that. You don’t even need to do statistics or study. You just need to look and you see the inequality hitting you right in the face. So, I just thought I should explain that to the hon member so that he understands that inequality and violence go hand-in-hand.



I also think it is important for people to report – communities and hon members - who have any indication of who is about to attack who - who is about to kill who - and who has killed who – to report the matter to the police. But as political parties, I still insist that we have a responsibility to discuss with our members about democracy, and competition. That competition is part democracy. There will be a loser and there will be a winner, and there is no need to kill for that. So, I think it’s important for political parties to do that. It is important for all of us.



I also disagree with hon Nhanha from the Eastern Cape, DA. Who said it is the ANC problem. It’s not an ANC problem – it’s a South African problem. The violence, political violence, started before 1994 in this country; 1994 came in the midst of political violence. So we have to change that culture. It is a culture that we found. It is not a culture that we created, and everything that we are doing is to try and change that culture to a culture where people have differences they solve them amicably. But where there is fierce competition in terms of positions and also try to instil the ... [Inaudible.] ... it does not need anyone to die for that. So it is a South African problem.



Also, councillors who have died have died across political parties. They have not died from one political party. But a death of a councillor is one too many, and we should try by all means working with the law enforcements authorities, and with intelligence. We must strengthen our intelligence as well so that they can assist in preventing the killings. But otherwise, thank you very much for asking us to participate in this debate. And we hope that when we talk about again, hopefully we will be talking about a decreasing problem, rather than an increasing problem. I thank you, Deputy Chair.





very much, hon Dlamini-Zuma. Let me thank all of you. Well, that concludes the debate for today. Like the hon Minister have said; it’s a very emotional debate because we are speaking about the lives of people lost. We continue - even post democracy - to have this bloody kind of occurrences. So let us then really thank the Chief Whip for actually allowing us to going into this topic that is very painful, but also needs to be addressed so that we should all be at the same level of understanding of what is really happening.



I am thinking about Rocky Malebana-Metsing and others pre democracy and we are still seeing the same occurrences here. Let us then thank the Minister, the Deputy Minister, MECs, the president of Salga, Salga representatives and all permanent and special delegates for availing themselves for the debate. I want to once again thank the Whippery for putting this debate on the programme because I think really sometimes it seems as if we don’t want to deal with controversial issues and this is one that we actually dealt with amicably. And we really hope that we will be seeing solutions, and not only blame to make sure that this anomaly is being addressed in our communities. With that said, hon delegates, we are concluding



the business of the day and the House is then adjourned. Thank you very much. I am missing you in Cape Town.



Debate concluded.



Business Concluded at 18:22



The Council adjourned at 18.22.