Hansard: NA: Mini-plenary 6
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 12 May 2022
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Minutes
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MINI PLENARY - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
THURSDAY, 12 MAY 2022
VOTE NO 11 - PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION, VOTE 7 -
NATIONAL SCHOOL OF GOV AND VOTE 12 - PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION
PROCEEDINGS OF THE MINI-PLENARY SESSION OF THE NATIONAL
ASSEMBLY
Watch: Mini-plenary
Members of the mini-plenary session met in the on the virtual platform in the National Assembly Chamber at 16:30.
ANNOUNCEMENTS
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, before we proceed, I would like to remind you that the Virtual mini- plenary is deemed to be in the precinct of Parliament. And constitute a meeting of the National Assembly for debating purposes only.
In addition to the rules of virtual sittings, the Rules of the National Assembly including the rules of the debate apply. Members enjoy the same powers and privileges that apply in a sitting of the National Assembly. Members should equally note that anything said in the Virtual platform is deemed to have been said to the House and may be ruled upon.
All members who have logged in shall be considered to be present and are requested to mute their microphones and only unmute when recognised to speak. This is because the microphones are very sensitive and will pick up noise that might disturb the attention of other members. When recognised to speak please unmute your microphone and connect your video, we do understand that there are those that have connection problems so it’s acceptable if you can’t unmute you video due to the network so that you can have a better coverage. Members may make use of the icons on the bar at the bottom of their screens which has an option that allows the member to put up his or her hand to raise a point of order.
The secretariat will assist in alerting the Chairperson to members requesting to speak. When using the virtual system members are urged to refrain or desist from unnecessary point of order or interjections. Hon members, we shall now proceed to the Order which is Debate On Budget Vote 11,7&12: Public Service and Administration, National School of Governance and Public Service Commission. Having said that, I will now invite and recognise the Acting Minister for the Public Service and Administration the hon Nxise.
APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate On Budget Vote 11,7&12: Public Service and Administration, National School of Governance, Public Service Commission:
The ACTING MINISTER OF THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Thank you hon Chairperson and members of this House, the Deputy Minister for Public Service and Administration Dr Chana Pilan-Majake, Minister and Deputy Ministers, hon Chairperson and members of the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration, the Acting Chairperson and Commissioners of Public Service, Chairperson and Board of Trustees of
Government Employees Medical Scheme, GEMS, the Chairperson of the Public Sector Education and Training Authority, The Chairperson of African of Government Council, the heads of institutions within the portfolio committee of Public Service and Administration, esteemed guests, ladies and gentlemen.
On the 4th of April 202, President Cyril Ramaphosa appointed me to act as Minister for Public Service and Administration. This followed the appointment of my predecessor Ms Ayanda Dlodlo as Executive Director of the board of the World Bank. Allow me to extend my good wishes to Ms Dlodlo on her
appointment and to thank her providing strategic leadership to the Public Service and Administration during her term The Ministry of Public Administration is constituted by four entities: The Department of Public Service and Administration, DPSA, Vote 11 led by the DG, Ms Yolisa Makhasi, the National
School of Governance Vote 7 led by the principal Professor Busani Ngcaweni, the Government Employees Medical Scheme which
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generates its own income and not covered in the budget vote is
led by the principal officer Dr Stan Moloabi and the Centre
for Public Service Innovation led by the Acting Director, Ms
Lydia Sebokedi.
The Public Service Commission is an independent institution
for which I shall also table its Budget Vote 12 established in
terms of chapter 10 of the Constitution. The PSC, Public
Service Commission, is currently chaired in an acting capacity
my Professor Somadoda Fekeni and administratively led by
Advocate Dinkie Dube.
The Deputy Minister hon Philani-Majake will table the budget
in respect of the Centre for Public Service and Innovation.
Our apex priority for this current administration as the
country and the department is to build a capable, ethical and
developmental state.
As articulated in the MTSF, Mid-Term Strategic Framework, a
capable state is the one which has the required human
capability, institutional capacity, service processes and
technological platforms to deliver services to the people.
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An ethical state is the one which is driven by constitutional
values and principles of public administration and the rule of
law focused on the progress of progressive realisation of
socio-economic rights and justice and outlining the Bill of
Rights.
A developmental state is the one which aims to meet people’s
needs through interventionist, developmental and signatory
public administration leading an active citizen through
partnership with all sectors of society.
Hon members, this sphere marks 25 years since our government
adopted Batho Pele principles championed by the first post-
apartheid Minister for Public Service and Administration, the
late Dr Zola Skweyiya.
In his foreword in what Batho Pele, Dr Skweyiya pointed out
that I quote:
“The transformation of our public service is to judged
rightly by the practical difference that people see in
their everyday lives.”
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These principles remain relevant today.
The DPSA has the task of creating conditions, policies and
procedures as well as norms and standards but promote a
capable ethical and develop oriented public service to
strengthen service delivery.
Flowing from the 2019 to 2024 Mid-Term Strategic Framework,
the department adopted five priority programmes to realise the
MTSF. The revitalised implementation of Batho Pele, the full
implementation of Public Administration Management Act,
stabilising the public service, fighting corruption and
effective implementation of public service policies.
In relation to the effective implementation of Batho Pele,
Cabinet has approved Batho Pele revitalisations strategy to
promote the people focused public service. The Public
Administration Management Act, PAMA, is aimed at harmonising
all three spheres of government to ensure uniformity and
synergy and its implementation will go a long way towards the
realisation of a capable state as envisioned by the NDP,
National Development Plan.
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Central to the stabilisation efforts, will be the effective
and efficient management of the public finances. The fight
against corruption is ongoing. Corruption and other aspects of
poor governance and weak institutions have substantial adverse
effects on economic growth.
Effective implantation of public policies is about service
delivery. Public policy is the translation of public needs
into action. We are committed to an integrated approach which
fosters partnership of all government institutions across the
spheres, collaboration of institutions within the public
service and administration and portfolio through engagement of
civil society and business as we endeavour to improve the
service delivery.
All the work we do as government relies on having cadre of
dedicated skilled and hardworking public servants who are
responsive, innovative and committed to help realise
government objectives. And I want to emphasize, we are not
apologetic about this. All the work that government has to
relies on having a cadre of dedicated, skilled hardworking
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public servants who are responsive, innovative, and committed
to help government realise the government objectives.
Ongoing implementation efforts to improve the performance of
the public service municipalities, public entities requires
the development of an intervention’s framework from
government, modernising of the public administration,
strengthening of government monitoring and evaluation and
other systems, systematising human resources and
organisational development and Batho Pele initiatives to
ensure that government machinery can contribute to the promise
of a better life for all within the republic of South Africa.
Strengthening service delivery is not just a technical
exercise but about transformation. Pillar 1 of the White paper
on the rights of persons with disabilities refers to removing
to access and participation.
The framework on the gender responsive planning, budgeting,
monitoring and evaluation and auditing requires institutions
to reserve specific budget for gender matters. South Africa is
party to the convention on elimination of all forms of
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discrimination against women which seeks to ensure the
protection of the rights of women at the workplace.
The Public Sector Wage Bill is under severe pressure due to
the general constraints faced by the South African economy.
The situation has been aggravated by the Covid-19 pandemic. It
has become increasingly important to develop a new
remuneration framework for the public sector including a wage
sector mechanism to better manage the public Sector Wage Bill
and ensure a greater degree of uniformity and alignment in
remuneration between the various paths of the public sector.
We convened with unions a timely Public Service Summit on the
collective bargaining on the 28-30 March 2022, where all
parties engaged in a frank exchange but we were able to agree
on a number of areas in the final declaration with regard to
resourcing, reconfiguration to job security, anti-corruption,
the fight against poverty, unemployment and inequality and the
people of centralised collective bargaining.
The National School of Government, NSG has the mandate to
provide or facilitate the provision of education and training
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or education, training and development interventions in the
public sector. The school’s five a year strategy is unfolding
in a dynamic manner coinciding with the events like the Covid-
19 pandemic and harnessing the potential of the rapidly
expanding digital transformation responding to the challenges
of overturning unemployment and inequality and constraint
budgets.
The National School of Government has made significant strides
including the following: 135 e-learner enrolments; rolling out
flagship programmes in the areas of effective governance,
gender and transformation, leadership induction and policy
regulation; hosting successful leadership development
interventions including economic governance schools, the
programme of ethical leadership and executive oversight and
the induction programmes for boards of public entities and
master classes with international speakers.
Today colleagues and hon members, I encourage that elected
representatives and appointed officials are going back to
class. In March 2021, President Ramaphosa together with
members of the executive and other officials joined a master
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class. I am encouraged that mayors and other entities; state
entity board members are being inducted on ethical leadership
executive oversight. I’m encouraged by a thousand of public
servants including our teachers who are completing courses on
ethics.
Hon members, professionalising the public administration is
one of the key imperatives of building a state capacity.
The President in the Sona indicated that we are now at an
advanced stage of finalisation of the professionalization
framework with an emphasis on entry, recruitment, selection,
induction continuous learning and career progression of the
public servants.
Indeed, I wish to assure you that the framework has been
finalised consideration by Cabinet. It proposes radical public
reforms which will include more decisive intervention on
consequent management especially dealing with mediocrity,
unethical behaviour, corruption and criminal acts committed.
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Instruments to undertake integrity testing before any
individual joins the public sector. Stabilizing the political
administrative interphase across the public service with
regard to the tenure of the HODs, heads of departments, we
shall consider increasing the period of tenure to ten years,
subject to performance. Repurposing the role of the public
service commission for insulation of recruitment and selection
processes from parties and influence for the appointment of
the director generals and their deputies. Review and
strengthening recognition of learning for the youth in the
public sector. The Public Service Commission remains a
critical entity of the department committed to establishing
sound and good governance in the public service based on
principles of accountability participation, responsiveness to
the needs of the people, transparency and the rule of law.
In relation to the goal of development orientation, the PSC
has found that South Africa planning system turns to be geared
towards reporting and auditing rather than resolution of
development programmes necessary to combat poverty,
unemployment and inequality.
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The PSC’s 2021 state of the public service report reveals a
lot of variable income capacity and performance across the
public service with major deficiencies in may departments
existing side by side with pockets of strengths and
excellence. So, the report makes proposals on the need to
build institutional capability.
The PSC annually conducts announced and unannounced
inspections of service delivery. They go to the service sites
to evaluate service delivery from the perspectives of the
citizens and identify service delivery challenges that can be
addressed immediately.
The PSC participated in the Mission Waterberg District
Municipality in 2021 as part of the partnership between the
United Nations and the Department of Cooperative Governance
and Traditional Affairs initiative to support the
implementation of the district development model. A critical
programme building the state capacity and ensuring improved
responsiveness to community needs
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The PSC’s citizen’s forum is distinctly South African method
of engaging citizens and focuses on the delivery of particular
programmes at a given point. It involves government working
with citizens to propose practical measures to improve service
delivery.
PSC continues to monitor the performance of the departments in
terms of payment of invoices of suppliers within 30 days
timeframe stipulated in the Finance Management Act.
Further to this, the PSC in its quest to be responsive to the
needs of the citizens and ensure accountability continue to
intervene in the matters of unresponsiveness by public
institutions to provide required services.
These interventions include the SAPS forensic services to
release a forensic analysis report to enable grieving families
to bury their loved ones, the issuance of matric certificates
and payments of the Sassa Covid-19 relief funds during 2021/22
financial year. The PSC has continued to contribute towards
the improvement of the sound labour relations in public
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service through investigating grievances that could be
resolved by the departments and their employees.
The PSC’s final report on effectiveness employee development
in the public service will assist the departments to develop
and review their training and development policies in response
to the Fourth Industrial Revolution skills needs in order to
support the government operations and service delivery.
The national anti-corruption hotline assists members of the
public to report corruption and fraud occurring in the public
service. The PSC has witnessed an increase in the level of the
utilisation of the hotline from 872 to 1 563 in the 2021/22
financial year resulting in the recovery of monies
fraudulently obtained and punishing of wrongdoers.
The PSC conducted an assessment to the effectiveness of the
complaints management system in the public service. The study
found that there is no consistency in the management of
complaints in the public service and that of monitoring the
evaluation of complaints lacks vigour. The PSC made
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recommendations aimed at assisting departments in this area of
work.
One of the flagship projects of the PSC is the assessment of
the effectiveness of government support to service delivery
with a particular focus on information and communication
technology as well accommodation of government to deliver
services.
In supporting Parliament to exercise its oversight role and
hold executives accountable, the PSC will conduct inspections
in partnership with Parliament. The PSC will contribute toward
professionalization of the public service, continue to conduct
investigations in the public administration malpractices and
address the underlying causes of effective discipline
management in the public service.
The following budget has been allocated to respective
programmes and entities. The DPSA budget allocation for
2022/23 financial year is R540,3 million, an increase of 1,6%
from the final allocation for 2021/22.
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The DPSA programmes have been allocated the following
resources: Programme 1, the administration has been allocated
R245,2 million and then Programme 2, the human resource
management and development is allocated R53,6 million;
Programme 3, negotiation labour relations and remuneration
management is allocated R106,9 million; Programme 4, e-
Government services and information management is allocated
R32,3 million and Programme 5, government services access and
improvement which also the transfer of payment to the centre
for public service innovation R44,5 million is allocated and
R102,3 million has also been considered.
The budget for the NSG for this financial year is R228 million
as the NSG has to generate an additional revenue for financial
sustainability. The training trading entity has budgeted to
raise income from the course fees of R101 million.
The PSC budget allocation for 2022/23 financial year is
R288 million which is an increase of 0,8% from the final
allocation for 2022 financial year. So, the PSC, consists of
four programmes. Programme 1, administration with the budget
allocation of R140 million; Programme 2, leadership management
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practice is allocated R48,1 million, Programme 3, monitoring
and evaluation is allocated a total of R41,6 million and
programme 4, integrity and anti-corruption is allocated
R55,7 million.
In summary, our task is to change the lives of South Africans
for the better through an ethical, capable and developmental
public service.
Chairperson and members, I hereby table the budget of the DPSA
and its entities for 2022/23. Thank you.
Ms T MGWEBA: Thank you very much, Chair. Hon acting Minister
and hon Deputy Minister in the Minister for Public Service and
Administration, hon members and the acting chair of the Public
Service Commission and Commissioners, good afternoon. Hon
Chair, in this portfolio committee we recognise that the
Constitution provides that the Republic is one sovereign
democratic state and that the government is constituted as
National, provincial, and local spheres of government which
are distinctive, interdependent, and interrelated.
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Administration in every sphere of government is governed by
the values and the principles governing the public
administration in section 151 of the Constitution. The
Constitution requires all spheres of government to provide
effective, efficient, transparent, accountable and coherent
government for the Republic to secure the wellbeing of the
people and the progressive realisation of their constitutional
right. One of the most pervasive challenges facing our country
is the need for the government to redress poverty,
marginalisation of people, communities and other legacies of
the apartheid and discrimination.
The challenge is best addressed by providing for
administrations in the three spheres of government to organise
their function in many ways that ensure efficient, quality,
collaborative and accountable service delivery, to alleviate
poverty and promote social and economic development for the
people of South Africa. Hon Chair and hon members, there is a
motto in the Freedom Charter which says, “the people shall
govern” this motto became a movement in its own right from
1955 until today. This principle is based on the integrity
that government accords to the people of South Africa. This is
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not a mere rhetoric, we deliver on it and that is how our
organisation carries itself in front of the citizens.
Hon Chair and hon members, regarding Vote 11 for the
Department of Public Service and Administration let’s
highlight the following issues: The state as the single
largest employer is going through difficult financial times.
As a caring government, the department had to function within
the available resources. There are competing demands on a
shrinking fiscus. This state of affairs needs every
stakeholder to tread carefully and the meeting of minds is
demanded from everyone of these stakeholders. As the state
becomes cautious of borrowing to pay salaries at the expense
of delivering, the service recipients have no mercy regarding
the service they expect, neither is organised labour lenient
expecting less of from the pie allocated to the Wage Bill.
The Department of Public Service and Administration public
services on one side and the organised labour on the other
with our support need to negotiate for conditions of service,
cognisant of the fact that compensation of employees cannot
take the biggest slice of the pie regarding the budget
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allocation to the department, and even so, the entire Wage
Bill of the public service. Hon Chair and hon members, due
care must be given to discipline management. The litigiousness
of this process in the entire public service also eats away
from the budget allocations as decisions and processes to
discipline get challenged in court.
This process needs to be managed carefully, especially by the
department itself, since it is the main department ensuring
the implementation of public service regulations and
monitoring the flouting of these regulations within the public
service. Therefore, hon members, it may be a high time that
the issue of discipline management is centralised where it
matters most, at the Department of Public Service and
Administration. It may be democratic and civil to decentralise
it to other departments. However, the policy and the
processing gaps are to derail to leave them open to different
interpretations by the departments that are not equipped to
deal with them.
Hon Chair and hon members, as Parliament we are still
expecting legislative reforms regarding the Public Service
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Management Act 11 of 2014 in order to sharpen the public
service regulations to deal effectively with discipline
management, financial disclosures and officials doing business
with the state. If the officials still continue doing business
with the state, it means there are policy gaps that they see
and the blunt instrument that they record regarding
legislation policy and regulations. The department might need
to survey this matter with public servants through a well
formulated investigative questionnaire to get the fillers on
this policy and the legislative gap.
Hon Chair, the resolve is that embedded corruption is
eliminated. This resolve is seen in its desire to be strong in
two lifestyle audit, so that public servants do not have a
lifestyle not commensurate with their salary earnings. This
policy direction needs collaboration with the companies and
Intellectual Property Commission as well as the SA Reserve
Service. In this manner, the fight against corruption can be
won for congruency and alignment. Lifestyle audits should
coincide with the financial disclosure framework.
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Conducting these two, but agreeable and complementary
processes at separate times defeats the noble purpose of
eliminating corruption. Reliable and useful information gets
discovered at different times and after effect alignment must
be effected in this regard if we are to see a real turnaround
on corruption. Chair, at this committee we expect that the
maturity of democracy and experience the public services has
should make us see less of service delivery protests. Such
protest must only be justified by the shrinking pool of
resources allocations, not because those who are charged to
deliver services ignore this mandate.
This is a task that the public service has not been at keen to
execute with resolve and enthusiasm. Willing political
machinery must be supported by a willing administrative and
managerial machinery. The political administrative interface
must be managed in such a way that it frees the hand of the
executive from holding the power that should not be in its
hand and allow it free administration to carry its duty
without interference. We envisage a public service that is
allowed to ... [Inaudible.] ... professionally where they are
empowered by legislation to do so. In that way, service
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delivery would improve. Service delivery improvement plans
will be scrutinised professionally without the executive
shielding those who do not perform on this level.
Chairperson, we need to see replication of discovered
innovations. In order to improve service and the quality of
life of the citizens, the department must not be bad to buy-in
into new innovations because it improves their relationship
with service recipients and the general society. Chairperson,
concerning the Vote 7, of the National School of Government,
may we highlight the following: It has been realised that the
school has been facilitating the generic and specialised
program from the middle management and downwards. We also note
the new approach to keep attention to the executive education.
This is a high level approach to the skill and upskill senior
management, the executive and the parliamentarians. The
approach will improve the management from a policy and
execution perspective.
As much as it will improve management and execution themselves
on this level, it will also improve oversight on part of
legislators. We wish the school well in this focused endeavor
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to improve skills and service delivery. Our wish is also for
the school to refine its funding model so that it can generate
enough revenue to run its mandate and programs. Hon Chair and
hon members, on Vote 12 of the Public Service Commission,
please, note the following: It is our desire as the committee
to see the Public Service Commission becoming more independent
not only on paper but in reality. The independence and
impartiality of the commission must be realised when its
recommendation are also mandatory and not advisory. We need to
see the public service and the executive ensuring that their
recommendations gets implemented. There is nothing to lose in
implementing the Public Service Commission recommendations
except to improving the outlook of the departments.
The executive and the public service in the eyes of the
citizens the spotlight is not at the Public Service
Commission, but it is on departments, the public service and
the executive doing the right thing and performing in the
purview of legislation and regulations. With these few remarks
wish all the departments under these votes the success under
its implementation policy and honoring legislative frameworks
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involved. The ANC support the Budget Votes 7, 11 and 12. I
thank you, hon Chair.
Dr L A SCHREIBER: Hon Chairperson, it has now become
abundantly clear that the ANC in Parliament is doing its very
best to run away from the findings of the State Capture
Commission.
The Department of Public Service and Administration, too, has
done absolutely nothing to uproot ANC cadre deployment, which
is the fundamental cause of state capture and corruption in
South Africa.
Since the ANC is apparently hard of hearing when it comes to
the findings of the Zondo Commission, allow me to try and
break the sound barrier with a few short extracts from the
Reports’ thousands of pages.
Keep in mind, these words are not mine or the words of the DA.
They are direct quotes from the Chief Justice of the Republic
of South Africa. Of course, the Reports flag a long list of
ANC members, some of whom continue to sit as Members of this
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very Parliament and Cabinet, as implicated in state capture
corruption: Gwede Mantashe, Jacob Zuma, Cedric Frolick,
Nomvula Mokonyane, Dudu Myeni, Vincent Smith, Malusi Gigaba
and Zizi Kodwa. But, as the Commission’s findings make clear,
capturing and destroying our state is a team sport. And
accused number one is the ANC itself.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Schreiber, please
wait there is a hand. Hon Radebe?
Mr B A RADEBE: Thank you, hon Chairperson. Hon Schreiber has
just named the sitting Members of Parliament on the first name
terms, which is not allowed according to Rule 82. Thank you,
Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you very much.
Hon Schreiber, Members of Parliament are still honourable and
you can call them Mr or Miss or any title that befits them.
Please refrain from doing that. Thank you.
Dr L A SCHREIBER: Okay. Thank you, Chair. They are honourable
despite being mentioned in the Zondo Commission Report. As the
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Commission’s findings make clear, capturing and destroying our
state is a team sport. And accused number one is the ANC
itself. So let’s look at what the Commission says about these
World Champions of corruption.
In the first volume of the report, Chief Justice Zondo
confirms, with reference to EOH and Blackhead Consulting, that
these were:
“At least two instances where the proceeds of corruption
were diverted to a political party, in both instances the
ANC.”
Later in the same report, the Chief Justice says that “in
fact, there is another example. That is BOSASA. The evidence
revealed that BOSASA made donations to the ANC in cash and in
kind. It cannot be that it only gave the ANC ‘clean’ money or
that it did not spend ‘dirty’ money on the ANC.”
In a subsequent volume, Chief Justice Zondo finds that a so-
called “war room” provided by BOSASA to help the ANC during
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the 2014 election campaign was “a form of inducement and gain
aimed at achieving influence.”
The Report goes on to say that “there are reasonable grounds
for suspecting that the ‘war room’ facilities were received by
the ANC with knowledge on the part of the ANC officials. And
the evidence in this regard establishes a prima facie case of
corruption.”
Then we get to the latest, penultimate, volume of the Zondo
Report. Referring to the capture of Eskom that has plunged us
all into darkness and is destroying South Africa’s economy,
Chief Justice Zondo unleashes the blunt truth by stating that:
“The ANC and the ANC government should be ashamed that this
happened under their watch. The question that the people of
South Africa are entitled to ask is: where was the ANC as the
Guptas took control of important SOEs such as Transnet, Eskom
and Denel? Where were they? What were they doing? Were they
aware of everything but lacked the courage to stop President
Zuma and his friends, the Guptas, in what they were doing? Or
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were they looking the other way?” But, for the ANC, the worst
is yet to come, Chairperson.
In the fourth volume of the Report, Chief Justice Zondo makes
it clear that the fifth and final version will directly tackle
the foundation of state capture in South Africa. And that is
the cancerous corruption called cadre deployment.
I quote from the penultimate Zondo Report: “Whether the
position taken by the ANC” – that it is entitled to deploy its
own people or members to senior positions – “is correct, is an
issue that will be dealt with in a later part of this Report.”
On 15 June, when the final Report is released, the day of
reckoning will finally arrive for the ANC’s cadre deployment
corruption.
That reckoning will hopefully also include a finding on the
evidence presented to the Commission by Mr Francis Moloi, a
seasoned career diplomat.
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In an affidavit submitted to Chief Justice Zondo, Mr Moloi
exposed how the ANC’s cadre deployment committee, I quote:
“unlawfully nominated ambassadors, heads of mission and senior
diplomats.”
In exchange, these cadres were expected to pay debit orders of
R2 800 per month to fund the ANC.
This revelation – that cadres were paying protection money to
the ANC in exchange for employment as part of a global
racketeering operation – confirms that the ANC is little more
than a criminal syndicate.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Schreiber,
unfortunately your time has expired.
Dr L A SCHREIBER: Was it six minutes, Chair?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Yes.
Dr L A SCHREIBER: Okay. We will soon find the truth. Thank
you, Chair.
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I do have a time. Don’t
try.
Ms R N KOMANE: Thank you very much, Chairperson. Hon
Chairperson, the EFF rejects the Public Service and
Administration proposed budget for the financial year 2022-23.
We reject this proposed budget for the same reasons we
rejected the previous Vote Budget. Even if the ruling party
refuses to admit it, the EFF were correct about the current
state of collapse and incapacity of the Public Service.
We are not going to waste time dealing with the nominal
problems of budget cuts and shift between programmes because
the current and previous committee reports and the proposed
budget were adopted without the practical input that were
made. And the recommendations adopted in those reports were
nothing but a copy and paste from the previous reports.
Chair, we are always told that South Africa is a developmental
state. What is a development state if it does not have the
necessary capacity? The truth of the matter is that South
Africa is not a developmental state. If anything, what do we
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have here is simply and incapable state. A developmental state
must have a capacity to respond to a pandemic like Covid-19.
Our hospitals and clinics did not response to the Covid-19
pandemic. Instead, our people died, including our nurses and
doctors.
A developmental state must have a capacity to respond to
floods in KwaZulu-Natal, to rebuild roads in eThekwini
Municipality, deliver water to the affected areas in Umlazi,
Phoenix, Pinetown and other affected areas and continue to
operate and deliver government services. Because of the
incapacity of the state, our people in KwaZulu-Natal are still
waiting for water, electricity, sanitation and health services
weeks after the floods.
Chair, a developmental state capacity must be able to
intervene and stops the killings, kidnappings and abductions
of women and children. But the parents are losing and burying
their children on a weekly basis. Like it has happened today
in Modimolle in the Limpopo.
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A developmental state must have the capacity to ensure
reliable in electricity generation. A developmental state must
ensure that trains are running from Johannesburg to Soweto,
from Cape Town to Langa and Khayelitsha and from Durban to
KwaMashu, Inanda and other areas. A developmental state must
be able to deliver water in Giyani. A developmental state must
be able to stop electricity cable theft. A developmental state
must be able to build hospitals in Rustenburg. Without any of
these, you don’t have a developmental state.
A state capacity or a Public Service and all of the public
servants who are underpaid, demoralised and denied salary
increases, despite the fact that the cost of gasoline,
electricity, housing, food and other necessities have risen
dramatically. I am mere pushing papers
Hon Chairperson, what is to be done now? Firstly, for the
Public Service to be service to its citizens, it must have its
own capacity. And this is going to start by building the state
capacity and insourcing of workers. We know insourcing is
practical and implementable because it was done into the City
of Johannesburg, in Tshwane, in Nelson Mandela Bay, at the SA
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Revenue Service, Sars, and many other institutions that have
listened to the EFF’s guidance.
Secondly, Chair, we must train public servants to be
dependable and the National School of Government must build
its own capacity.
Thirdly, we must increase their salaries to an acceptable
standard starting with our doctors, teachers and nurses.
Fourthly, Chairperson, all temporary workers and interns
employed in the state institutions must be hired on a
permanent basis with benefits and a pension.
Fifthly, all government employees who are doing business with
the state as eluded by the previous speaker of the ANC must be
given 30 days to leave business or leave the state.
Sixthly, Chair, we must set a clear deadline for all lifestyle
audit to be conducted. And we must have a report by the end of
the year 2022. Unless we recognise public service according to
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this implementable proposal, Chairperson, we will not support
this budget as the EFF. Thank you very much.
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon House Chairperson, I present this budget
speech on behalf of the hon Inkosi R N Cebekhulu. At the
outset, the IFP wishes to preface its contribution today by
highlighting the fact that the Department of Public Service
and Administration has one of the toughest, if not the
toughest, mandates in government, specifically the mandate to
improve the professionalisation of the Public Service, which
does not only act as the face of our government, but comprises
a significant portion of the country’s workforce.
Over the last few years, we have seen unprecedented economic
struggles and a severe spike in unemployment, largely due to
the global COVID-19 pandemic. However, in all honesty, our
economy and employment rate have been in decline for several
years now.
South Africa suffers from an ethical bankruptcy, which is
pervasive and deeply entrenched in the ruling party.
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Corruption has become synonymous with South Africa. It is part
of the country’s brand.
The importance of the role of the Public Service Commission,
PSC, in overseeing, monitoring, evaluating and investigating
public administration practices, as well as creating a
capable, ethical and developmental Public Service, also needs
to be highlighted.
After the pillaging of the COVID-19 relief funds for personal
protective equipment and the many, many corruption scandals,
one shudders to think how we could restore faith in a
government that declares war on the poor at every possible
opportunity. The recent floods in KwaZulu-Natal and the
Eastern Cape saw many lives lost, leaving heartbreaking scenes
and many people destitute, and the first thing people were
worried about was the mismanagement of relief funds allocated
towards mitigating the disaster.
Lest we forget the devastating riots last July – the cost of
which is still being counted – where no meaningful arrests
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have been made, even after the President of the country told
us we know who they are.
Recent reports stated that more than 100 000 public
servants/employees have been implicated in a graft scheme,
where they are unduly and unlawfully benefitting from social
grants intended for the poor of South Africa. This included
staff in the Offices of the President, the Chief Justice, the
National Treasury and law enforcement agencies. All to the
detriment of the poor.
Unfortunately for the poor in South Africa, this suffering is
not temporary. It is relentless and accumulated. The
heartbreak manifests itself in their everyday struggles, while
those who already have plenty, get more. Therefore, the
National Anticorruption Hotline needs to be promoted and
prioritised, and the crucial role of whistle-blowers needs to
be prioritised by this department.
As the IFP, we therefore echo the recommendation of the
committee that the department needs to fast-track the
amendments of all legislation due earlier than 2023, to give
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Parliament ample time to finalise such legislation within its
term. The government as an employer in the Public Service Co-
ordinating Bargaining Council should swiftly finalise wage
negotiations for the 2022-23 financial year. This will avoid
delays to the process, which impact on the morale of public
servants, as well as ... uniformity and a timeframe with the
financial disclosure framework on lifestyle audits. We further
wish to make mention of the importance of the synchronisation
of all three levels of administration in order to achieve
anticorruption objectives.
As the IFP, we support the Budget Vote and we will continue to
work alongside the department to ensure that the principles of
Batho Pele, as well as the vision of the National Development
Plan, NDP, is truly fulfilled. Thank you, hon Chairperson.
Ms H DENNER: House Chair, while 89% of respondents in a survey
done lately by Statistics SA indicated that they have faith in
Statistics SA as an entity, and views it as a credible and
professional institution for now, the opposite is true for
other state departments, their entities and the Public Service
at large.
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The Public Service should be efficient, effective and
development orientated, and most importantly, it should be
professional and accountable. Furthermore, constitutional
values and principles on all levels of public administration
are not negotiable. They should be present, promoted and
maintained, and the core mandate of this department should be
to ensure exactly that.
Why then does the South African public not have faith in our
Public Service? Has the department, in conjunction with other
government departments, failed to ensure a professional and
accountable Public Service to our citizens? Yes, hon House
Chair, I am afraid they have.
The service delivery rendered to us as South African citizens
is shockingly poor to say the least, but let me not
generalise. There are public servants who work days and nights
to deliver efficient, effective and professional service, and
they must be commended. We thank them for that but sadly, they
are few and far between.
Afrikaans:
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Die waarheid is dat hierdie departement die mooiste planne met
die mooiste woorde op papier kan saamstel maar as die
eindgebruiker van die staatsdiens nie effektiewe en behoorlike
diens ontvang nie, help al hierdie woorde en al hierdie planne
net mooi niks.
Ek hoop die waarnemende Minister luister mooi. As ’n nuwe ma
tweee jaar moet wag vir haar kraamverlofeis om deur die
Werkloosheidsversekeringsfonds se personeel verwerk te word
nadat sy ses keer dieselfde dokumente moes indien omdat
personeel die dokumente misplaas en verloor, sal sy nie
vertroue in die staatsdiens hê nie. As ’n bejaarde dame deur
’n verpleegster in ’n staatshospitaal kaal uitgetrek word en
weerloos op haar bed gelos word vir die ganse saal en hul
besoekers om te sien, sal sy en haar familie nie vertroue in
die staatsdiens hê nie. As ’n leerlingbestuurder nie ’n
afspraak kan kry om sy bestuurslisensie aansoek te voltooi
sodat hy vir ’n werk kan aansoek doen nie omdat die
lisensiekantoor een personeellid en geen administratiewe
toerusting het nie, sal hy nie vertroue in die staatsdiens hê
nie. Dit is tog die einddoel waarna hierdie departement moet
streef. Dit is tog waarom programme wat deur die National
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School of Government, NSG, aangebied word wentel. Maar dit
word nie op grondvlak deur die kliënte van die staat, ons die
belastingbetalers, die inwoners, ervaar nie.
English:
Yet, Public Service compensation has grown by about 40% in
real terms over the past 14 years. The wage bill remains the
largest component of public spending. This means that
government has to increase its borrowing to sustain its salary
bill; a salary bill spent on a great number of public servants
who do not have the will, skills or desire to deliver
professional, efficient and friendly service to the very
people who pay and suffer to keep them in their jobs in the
first place.
We note that there are plans to stabilise the Public Service
by restoring stability and credibility in state institutions.
These plans contain words such as programmatic interventions,
which will include productivity measurements. These words have
been used for years, yet the standard of Public Service has
never been this low.
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The same goes for the NSG, which has a constitutional mandate
to ensure that all the basic values and principles are
instilled in the value system and performance of all public
servants and representatives. This is not the case. The end
users of the Public Service very rarely see these wonderful
values and principles that the NSG is supposed to instil in
their public servants. Is the NSG failing? It would seem so.
The same goes for the PSC that is vested with the custodial
oversight responsibilities for the Public Service and that is
supposed to monitor, evaluate and investigate public
administration practices.
Hon Chair, I ask this question. If the department and its
entities such as the NSG and the PSC fully delivered on their
mandates and plans as set out in the budget and beyond, and if
they effectively and efficiently implemented all of these
beautifully set out goals, why is the Public Service
underperforming? Who is not doing their jobs and ultimately,
whose responsibility is it? I thank you.
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The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION:
Hon House Chairperson, Minister for the Public Service and
Administration, Acting Minister, hon Nxesi, Chairperson and
members of the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and
Administration, noting the amount of time that I do have
available I wish to say all protocols observed.
Hon House Chairperson, in considering the strategic and Annual
Performance Plans, APPs, of the entities of the Department of
Public Service and Administration, DPSA, the committee
emphasized that plans and budget allocations must serve the
needs and aspirations of the citizens. This was expressed with
the understanding that budget allocation or sufficient budget
allocation serves as a key instrument for government to
promote growth and development in South Africa.
Budget allocation plays a critical role as an economic
instrument ...
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M Mahlaule): Hon Deputy
Minister, sorry to do this to you. There’s a hand.
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Hon Papo? Hon Papo, your hand is up!
Okay. Deputy Minister, can you please proceed.
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION:
Thank you, Chairperson. Budget allocation plays a critical
role as an economic instrument of government to reflect on the
country’s socioeconomic policy priorities by translating
through implementation strategies, priorities and political
commitments into expenditures. The Budget serves as a vital
tool to operationalise government activities towards the
achievement of its intended priorities. Without the budget,
the annual performance plans remain a pipe dream.
House Chairperson, it is disturbing to notice the trend of
just rejecting the budget by some members of the opposition
for political point-scoring. You have been given the
opportunity to represent South Africans in this chamber, do it
responsibly. Unless most of the members are normally not in
the portfolio committee when reports are interrogated, and
together with the committee we actually carve a way forward in
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terms of managing to achieve the goals for the Department of
Public Service and Administration or realise the mandate.
Hon Schreiber of the DA continues to falsely lament corruption
by the ANC which I actually think is unfortunate and he is
also alluding to the Zondo Commission, which is not what the
report is focusing on. But in terms of that, what I would just
want to say is that hon Schreiber should allow due process to
unfold and stop grandstanding with the ulterior motive of
making the very ANC that is fighting corruption to appear like
accused number 1, as he calls the ANC. Your language
[Inaudible.] of an organization desperate for recognition, hon
Schreiber.
The Department of Public Service and Administration continues
to intensify the fight against corruption, strengthening anti-
corruption practises, which is what we always say, in the
public service in the form of: setting of norms and standards
for public service of South Africa; appointment by all
government departments of ethics officers to monitor and
respond to corrupt practices; doing lifestyle audits for
public servants, comparing employee salaries to assets owned
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by public servants; launch of Ethical, Disciplinary and
Integrity Technical Task Team that works jointly with civil
society to monitor anti-corruption in the public service,
which means we are now the public also to some level to be
part of the processes within the public service that monitors
and develop interests in how to deal with corruption; also to
protection of whistle-blowers, we appreciates measures taken
by the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development in
amendment of the Protected Disclosures Act that promotes full
protection of the whistle blowers; and also, we have to
acknowledge the Fusion Centre that brings together all
security agencies to intensify the fight against corruption.
The country and the Department of Public Service and
Administration are very serious about fighting corruption.
One of the other entities that the Department of Public
Service and Administration is responsible for is the Centre
for Public Service Innovation, CPSI, which is a centre
established in terms of section 7(a) listed in schedule 3A of
the Public Service Act of 1994, as amended and is an organ of
state.
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The mandate of the Centre for Public Service Innovation is to
strengthen solution-oriented culture and practice of
innovation in the public sector to improve public service
delivery. Through its mandate, the Centre for Public Service
Innovation contributes towards the building of a capable,
ethical and developmental state.
We do it all the time, hon Komane, because your argument is
that we are not a developmental state, we lack capacity. We
may not be having capacity fully, but whatever efforts we put
in place are efforts to help build capacity. It’s a matter of
just understanding processes that we do so that you can manage
to make meaningful understanding of them.
CPSI has once more managed to get a 5th clean audit. Which is
very much commendable.
The CPSI delivers on its mandate through three sub-programmes
that encourage co-development, implementation and replication
of innovative service delivery solutions that deals with a
myriad of service delivery challenges; which is what we need
to at ... our experiences within public service’s challenges
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is not corruption, is not problems, because challenges can
always be overcome, there’s no government that can exist
without challenges.
Some of the notable solutions of CPSI are but not limited to
hackathons, which is a process of bringing together young
people to put their heads together and they are given a
problem within public service and they come up technical
solutions that have been very helpful; there’s also, as part
of the notable solutions that are there, Agritech solutions;
COVID19 induced e-learning solutions; water filtering systems;
fire prevention device for informal settlements; personal
safety and crime prevention solutions, it’s called Memeza,
which is one instrument that is used mostly by informal
settlements when somebody is in trouble and then it’s a way of
calling to yourself, the people in the community; there’s also
Online Thusong Centre, and a whole lot more other solution-
oriented outcomes that CPSI has got.
CPSI unearths innovations towards improved public service.
CPSI natures innovation in public service, thus the annual
awards for innovators. CPSI continues to grow a number of
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in-house software developers in government departments,
building solutions internally at a fraction of a price
normally charged.
The overall budget of CPSI is R44,4 million in the 2022-23
financial year, as adjusted from R42,5 million in the 2021-22
financial year.
The other entity which the Department of Public Service and
Administration is responsible for is the Government Employees
Housing Scheme, GEHS. The Government Employees Housing Scheme
was established after negotiations between the employer and
labour, which culminated in Public Service Council Bargaining
Chamber, PSCBC, Resolution 7 of 2015.
The purpose of the Scheme is to assist government employees to
access affordable housing through various interventions
including administration of housing allowances, facilitating
access to affordable housing finance, facilitation of the
provision of the housing stock, enrolling employees into the
scheme in order to aggregate demand and offer advice,
education and counselling to employees with the aim of
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improving their chances to access houses and become
homeowners.
As at 31 March 2022, the number of employees who are receiving
the housing allowance as homeowners has increased to 743 895
as compared to 532 103 in 2015. A lot of progress has been
made in this regard and we are looking forward to allowing
more and more public servants to manage to own homes.
Through the Government Employee Pension Fund, GEPF, and Public
Investment Corporation, PIC, funding arrangements, an
enrolment system has been created and this enrolment system
has been assisting the Call Centre to manage to have
information on all employees in the public sector and manage
to do necessary counselling and training [Time expired.] I
thank you, hon Chairperson.
Ms M T KIBI: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister and hon Deputy
Minister, all the hon members and all Ministers present here,
the ANC adopts this Budget Vote. The ANC has set for itself
the goals of building a capable developmental state with an
improved human resource through strengthening state capacity
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and capability to service the citizens of our country
effectively.
As depicted in our vision in the National Development Plan,
NDP, 2030, we recognise that neither social nor economic
transformation is possible without a capable and developmental
state. The state provides the institutions and infrastructure
that enable the economy and society to operate. We note that
critical interventions are required to build a capable state.
Noting that we have to address the triple challenges of
inequality, poverty and unemployment. The state needs to play
a developmental role. This requires a well-run, effective and
co-ordinated state institutions with skilled public servants
who are committed to the public and capable of delivering
consistently, high quality of service to our nation.
We must continue to establish uniformity in the public service
across all spheres of government to ensure that a better co-
ordination across in government.
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As the ANC we believe that policy formulation has to serve the
nation’s interest and that they are to be developmental to
overcome the root causes of inequality and poverty. That is
what we are doing. We are improving the public service to be
more professional, transparent, efficient and responsive.
Central to building a developmental state, is the human
resource. We are strengthening and professionalising the
public service in all spheres of government, particularly at
top management and the delivery sectors.
As the ANC we have made progress in transforming middle
management and gender parity in the public service. Our
programmes are responsive to our socioeconomic challenges such
as unemployment, particularly youth unemployment. The public
service must lead in promoting gender equality and inclusivity
with the inclusion of women, youth and persons with
disabilities in the sector.
Understanding that we are at a juncture in our country where
there are high-levels of unemployment, particularly amongst
the youth.
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As the ANC-led government, we have remained consistent in our
resolution to absorb the youth into the public service. As
stated in the NDP we are committed in making the public
service in all spheres a career of choice, particularly for
graduates who wish to contribute to the development of the
country with the necessary skills and expertise to fulfil its
core functions and develop appropriate core paths for
technical specialists and specialisations.
Notwithstanding that, we are pleased to note that progress has
been made by removing barriers of entry in the public service
for young people.
Moreover, in this financial year we welcome the new set target
of absorbing 30% of young people into the public service in
all departments. We have faith in that this new target, will
contribute in addressing the level of youth unemployment in
the country.
As the ANC, we welcome the increment in the budget for this
financial year. However, acknowledging that in real terms we
recognise that there is a decrease between this and the
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previous financial year due to the COVID-19 pandemic. It is
inevitable that the pandemic has impacted government greatly,
hon members.
Furthermore, acknowledge that more funds have been allocated
to Programme 1. We hope to see more improvement in the quality
of spending in the department and that the department will
monitor fruitless, irregular and wasteful expenditure and
adhere to the recommendations made by the Auditor-General.
Developing professional ethos in the public service is crucial
to the ANC. As it is indicated of the type of public service
cadre required in the public service.
We require public servants who fully embody the Batho Pele
principle, thriving for a people centred government. We
welcome that the department will continue to monitor
implementation of the principle. A developmental state is
reliant on the type of public servants that it has. Public
servants that put people first.
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As the ANC, we commend the department for the efforts they
have put to ensure this through the development of the job
evaluation system. We need a system where public servants are
appointed based on their competency and capabilities.
Noting that one of the biggest impediments in the public
servants is corruption and that it compromises development and
it undermines public confidence in the state.
We will continuously address this challenge particularly with
public servants conducting business with the state. The
technical assistance unit for ethics and integrity in the
public service will carry out a number of measures to tackle
corruption in the public service which includes amongst
others: The implementation of interventions to support the
timely resolution of disciplinary cases and reporting of
criminal conduct in the public administration to the relevant
law-enforcement authorities initiated.
We have to fast-track the digitisation of the public service
and therefore require innovation. We therefore welcome the
recommendations that the Centre for Public Service and
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Innovation should assist the Department of Public Service and
Administration in developing innovative solutions to
digitalise government’s administration business model for a
manual administration business process.
Furthermore, the Centre for Public Service Innovation should
also develop innovative solutions to assist government to
accelerate service delivery and the replication where
necessary. And to handover such solutions to the relevant
departments for further implementation. Having a meritocratic
professional and responsive public service and professional
public servants with the requisite skills in their areas of
specialisation will improve the quality of services that are
delivered to our people.
In our goal of attaining a single public service we have to
take a proactive approach to improve relations between all
spheres of government. Thus of all, intensify our efforts in
fighting corruption and maladministration. All efforts are
geared towards our transformation agenda of creating a better
life for all, through a developmental and capable state.
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The ANC supports this budget.
Hon Chairperson, here we are here, for the Budget Votes, we
are not here to be taken through the Zondo Commission report.
All of us read the report. We understand what is in the
report. So, the recommendations will be implemented when the
time comes. If people do not have anything to say when they
want to criticize, maybe the Budget Votes, they must just keep
quiet. Not take things that do not belong here today. I thank
you, Chairperson.
Mrs E N NTLANGWINI: Switch on your light, mama, switch on your
light!
Ms M T KIBI: I am sorry. I am done. I am done, Chairperson.
Thank you.
Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Thank you, House Chairperson for giving me
the opportunity. Allow me to start off by saying that the NFP
will support Budget Vote 11, 7 & 12. Not necessarily because
we are happy with what is going on in the department, but very
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importantly for the purposes of progress so that we can
correct what has been happening in the past.
Now, we talk about a very capable state, let me remind the
Minister here and the House Chairperson. First of all, I think
we have very short memories when we forget that not so long
ago, we lost Lennox Garane. Who committed suicide so that we
can learn what is happening in Parliament. So, it clearly
indicates that we have not been taking this matter seriously
enough to be able to address the challenges faced by the
public servants in Parliament themselves. This is where we are
housed and what they face on a day to day basis as a result of
the conduct of Dumisani Sithole. Who coincidentally has just
had an eight months’ contract extended, and I cannot
understand this.
More importantly, I want to say to the Minister, through you
House Chairperson, that right now as I speak to you, two
minutes ago I got a call about the condition of the nurses,
and I know that to some extent it belongs to the health
sector, but they are the public servants and what they are
going through at R K Khan Hospital. Now, yes indeed, the Zondo
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Commission has highlighted a whole lot of reasons why we are
where we are, and I think that the matter before us is what
are we going to do to be able to prevent this from going on
and on.
One of my suggestions is that when we want to ensure that we
want to employ people in the public sector, should we not
consider having an independent human resource body that will
be responsible to employ these people rather than them being
at the mercy of politicians and political parties? Because, we
continue to lose hundreds of billions of rands in this
country, as a result of cadre deployment and that we employ
people not based on the capacity and the ability to perform.
But very importantly, on the illegit of whichever political
party wherever they are governing.
Now another serious concern that I have is that we have a
higher unemployment rate in the country. Yet, there are people
getting double pay from the state. They are principals, they
are educators, they are teachers, but they are also equally
councillors and mayors and deputy mayors. I cannot understand
the rationale. How would you be able to deliver services to
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the people on the ground if you have two jobs? You are at
school, you have a full time job, and yet you want to be a
councillor or mayor or deputy mayor, earning two different
salaries. Surely that is a matter that we need to look at.
If we want an ethical state, a capable state and a developed
state, then I think it is important we address some of these
issues that we have been ignoring for a long period of time.
And when we talk about dealing with corruption, thousands of
them have been getting paid by the state and equally getting
the R350. Is my time up, Chairperson? Thank you, very much.
The NFP supports the Budget Vote.
Dr M M GONDWE: The Department of Public Service and
Administration has all but lost the war against corruption,
fraud, and other forms of misconduct in our country’s public
service on all fronts. This is evidenced by the fact that we
still have public servants conducting business with the state
despite this being expressly prohibited by the Public
Administration Management Act and the Public Service
Regulations.
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Government departments are also bled dry, on an annual basis,
by all manner of financial misconduct on the part of public
servants, with little or no action being taken against the
responsible public servants, thereby promoting a culture of
impunity in the public service. Bluntly put, the laws we take
the time to pass as legislators are being shunned and spat on
by some in the public service.
In March this year, the Public Service Commission informed the
portfolio committee that for the 2019-20 financial year, our
national and provincial departments incurred approximately
R103 billion in irregular expenditure; approximately
R2,7 billion in fruitless and wasteful expenditure; and
approximately R1,6 billion in unauthorized expenditure. The
combined expenditure for all these forms of financial
misconduct amounts to a staggering R107 billion, which we
incurred as a country, in the 2019-20 financial year due to
financial misconduct on the part of government departments.
As such, it simply cannot be enough for the department to
restrict itself to a monitoring role in respect of financial
misconduct. It has to also play an active role in assisting
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government departments, by ensuring that they not only have
the proper controls in place to curb such forms of financial
misconduct but can subject the responsible public servants to
the necessary disciplinary processes.
There is also an alarming number of public servants who are
benefitting from social grants at a reported cost of
R200 million, for the month of July 2021 to the state, despite
some of them not qualifying for these grants. We will never
have a stable and fully functional public service if no
disciplinary or criminal action, is taken against public
servants who unabashedly flout the relevant legislation and
regulations and commit rampant acts of corruption, fraud and
other forms of misconduct.
The fact of the matter is also that consequence management is
lacking in the public service. Even if there is some
consequence management, it is always not commensurate with the
misconduct committed. It has just become a term that is
bandied around for the sake of sounding politically or morally
correct, instead of it translating into tangible action being
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taken against all forms of corruption, fraud and other forms
of misconduct in the public service.
We therefore, urge the department to urgently adopt and
aggressively implement a strategy to deal with the backlog of
disciplinary cases which were reported to have cost us an
amount of R4,5 billion for the 2019-20 and 2020-21 financial
years. If needs be so, the department should also look into
the possibility of centralising the function of discipline
management and allow it to be managed and administered by a
single competent unit within the department that houses
specialists in the fields such as dispute resolution, labour
and human resource management.
Shying away from such a policy shift will not bring a lasting
solution to this challenge, which has never been effectively
dealt with. We had honestly hoped that the introduction and
subsequent implementation of mandatory lifestyle audits for
public servants, in 2021, as a mechanism for preventing,
detecting and subsequently uprooting corruption and fraud in
the public service would have, by now, yielded results in the
fight against corruption and fraud in the public service.
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However, to date, the Western Cape is the only province to
have gone beyond the implementation stage of the lifestyle
audit cycle and progressed to the investigations stage,
whereas other provinces and national departments are lagging
behind in this respect.
The reluctance or inability of other provinces and national
departments to conduct these lifestyles audits will only
further entrench corruption, fraud and other forms of
misconduct in the public service. We, therefore, recommend
that the department firms up and enforce timeframes in
relation to the implementation of these lifestyle audits by
all government departments and hold government departments
accountable if they fail to adhere to these time frames.
The Public Service Commission, if this body is to make a
meaningful impact in the war against corruption, fraud and
other forms of misconduct in the public service, it will
require additional funding and more independence. About 75% of
the commission’s budget, for the 2022-23 financial year, will
go towards the compensation of its employees and as such, it
is difficult to see how it can effectively discharge its
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mandate with only 25% of its allocated budget at its disposal.
It is for this reason that we support the Bill that the
commission intends to introduce to Parliament, which will see
the commission being supported by an independent secretariat
and acquiring its own stand-alone and fully-fledged Budget
Vote located within the Budget Vote of Parliament, to
guarantee the commission’s independence from the executive.
It is also worth mentioning that the Private Members' Bill
proposed by my colleague, hon Leon Schreiber also seeks to
strengthen the hand of the commission in a similar manner. Let
this Bill not be shot down on account of hon Leon Schreiber
being a member of the opposition. We cannot build the public
service, let alone this country without considering the views
and inputs of those who can, objectively speaking, add them.
We take the point that the commission is presently hamstrung
or constrained by the provisions of section 196 of the
Constitution in its ability to hold government departments
that disregard or ignore its recommendations or fail to act on
its findings to account, given that section 196 uses words
like promote, investigate, propose and give directions to
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describe the powers and functions of the commission. However,
in light of the alarming levels of corruption and fraud that
we find our public service currently mired in, the time has
come for the hand of this, our country’s only Chapter 10
institution, to be strengthened, by this House, so that it can
play a more impactful role in reshaping the face of our public
service.
Lastly, a primary mission of the National School of
Government, NSG is to empower and capacitate public servants
to be responsive to the needs of our citizens and government
priorities through education, training, and development
interventions. However, some of the courses or programmes that
the NSG, presently, has on offer do not necessarily speak to
the needs of our citizens and government priorities.
It is on this basis that we recommend that the NSG start
playing its part in the fight against corruption, fraud and
other forms of misconduct in the public service by offering a
wider range of courses or programmes which are intended to
entrench and inculcate a culture of accountability,
professionalism, ethics and morality in the public service and
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also capacitate and empower senior managers to effectively
address and deal decisively with acts of corruption, fraud and
other forms of misconduct in the public service. I thank you.
Ms M M NTULI: Hon Chair, hon Minister, Deputy Minister,
Ministers present here, hon Chief Whip and Deputy Chief Whip,
hon members and fellow South Africans, the ANC supports this
Budget Vote No 11, 7 and 12. This debate takes place during
Africa Month in which great ideas gather together for
engineering of the elevation of Africa. The ANC government has
taken that button for showcasing the realisation of the world-
class public service through Vote No 7,11 and 12.
The ANC manifesto put clear its determination to root out
corruption. We have heard people grandstanding about
corruption. Here we are continuing changing people’s lives.
The launch of Public Administration Ethics, Integrity and
Disciplinary Technical Assistance Unit over and above the
Public Service Commission, PSC, speaks volumes in fighting
this scourge. It is only the ANC after the democratic
dispensation in 1994 that put it in its agenda the better life
for all, not exempting the monitory group over the majority
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citizens of the country. Some of the clauses of the Freedom
Charter as our blueprint emphasises learning and governing of
the people.
The National School of Government, NSG, is exactly giving
public servants confidence and making them proud in executing
their work whilst the Public Service Commission seeks to
address the people to partake in the governing of the country
through their comments and being the watchdogs in whatever
happens in the public eye and also keeping public servants on
their toes and focused at their work at all times.
The committee is looking forward for the PSC to have teeth one
day for the fulfilment of this sterling work. The National
School of Government plays a critical role in capacitation of
public servants. It is the main driver of ensuring that we
have a capable human resource and ensure career development
throughout the public service. The National School of
Government provides support for talent management across all
spheres of government and provide for appointments, succession
planning and career development. A capacitated and skilled
public will be able to represent and connect to the
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communities that serve. There is no doubt that the school has
taken a proactive approach in developing professional
expertise.
The NSG plays a fundamental role in ensuring that public
service is professionalised by providing compulsory induction
to all public servants. Furthermore, the NSG played a pivotal
role in the development of the draft National Implementation
Framework towards the professionalisation of the public
service. It has to ensure that all of the basic values and
principles are inculcated into the value system and
performance of all public servants and representatives through
education, training and development, ETD, initiatives.
It does so through its curriculum design, development and
delivery approach with the practical application of
participatory people centred methodologies and the application
of indigenous facilitation and learning techniques during the
ETD initiatives in building a caring ethos and citizen-centred
service delivery focus amongst public servants.
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This approach consciously focusses on the application of the
principles and values of the Constitution and the realisation
of the public administrative justice to all whom we serve. As
the ANC we welcome the budget increase allocated to the
National School of Government and hope that the entity will
continue doing the good job that it does of providing
accredited courses to all its learners.
We are pleased to know that a bigger chunk of budget has been
allocated to programme 2, which provides education,
development and training to public sector employees. This is a
clear indication that building a skilled professional public
service is one of government’s priorities. Furthermore, the
committee recommended that the NSG should develop a full-
fledged funding model to maintain the self-generated income.
In as much as the COVID-19 has affected the functions of many
departments, we can all attest to the fact that it drove us
towards innovation. There is no escape from the Fourth
Industrial Revolution.
We commend the school for introducing the use of the e-
learning modality that enables it to offer e-learning courses
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and to establish communities of practice as well as open
online courses. We also applaud the school for undertaking
training needs analysis with public sector institutions and
for completing research projects to inform training needs and
opportunities. This will enable it to be at a competitive
level with other tertiary institutions.
However, we recommend that the school impact assessments on
public servants who have undertaken their courses,
particularly the ethics course, to monitor whether there is an
impact on public servants who have enrolled in their course.
This will also encourage more employees to enrol as learners
in the school. We recognise that there is a need to strengthen
consequence management in the public service.
As the ANC, we welcome the announcement that
professionalisation of public service will introduce a course
layer that deals with consequence management, we believe in
restoring the integrity of the state. We have to prevent
public service from conducting business with the state and
therefore put stringent consequence management in the public
service. A lot has been done unlike the previous speakers here
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from the opposition who stated clear that nothing has been
done in this regard, not understanding that the biggest
challenge we have in the public service is corruption.
Corruption has negative consequence on our economy and
society, impacting on the integrity of our institutions. It
undermines the very moral ethical basis of our young
democracy.
As the ANC we are adamant in bringing about ethical and moral
leadership in both the public and private sector. We must
collectively fight against corruption if we are to succeed in
our fight as the ANC, we are creating and promoting a culture
of integrity in government. That is why we have to keep on
supporting institutions such as the Public Service Commission
to promote and monitor compliance with constitutional values
and principles in the public service.
The promotion of the constitutional values and principles is
aimed at fostering a positive behavioural change in the public
servants and the public service in order to ensure that
services are delivered in a responsive, caring and ethical
manner, among other things. The commission plans to conduct 50
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quantitative evaluation reports and 12 qualitative evaluations
in each of the remaining years of the Medium-Term Expenditure
Framework, MTEF, period.
The purpose of this report and evaluation is to access
departments compliance with constitutional values and
principles with a view in promoting a culture of excellence in
the public service. Public servants must uphold the code of
conduct and conduct themselves in a ... [Interjections.] ...
professional and ethical manner ...
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M Mahlaule): Mma Ntuli, a
point of order has been called. What’s the point of order?
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Chair, I just want to check. Can the member
perhaps drink some water because, hey, it is difficult in our
region, we can’t do everything ...
Ms T MGWEBA: No, Ntlangwini, you are out of order.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M Mahlaule): Hon Ntlangwini,
you are out of order. Can you proceed, hon Ntuli.
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Ms M M NTULI: Moreover, we are also pleased to know that a
bigger chunk allocated will focus on fighting corruption,
strengthening human resource practices and management and
monitoring and evaluating of service delivery performance in
the public service. As the ANC, we also welcome the
introduction of lifestyle audits in the public service and
hope that this measure will be strengthened further.
The Public Service Commission will also monitor service and
the implementation of Financial Disclosure Framework and
strengthen the financial disclosure system to combat
corruption. We hope that they will also monitor the grievances
logged in the Anti-Corruption Hotline and the number of
grievances that have been resolved and the impact thereof
brought to committees or members of the public that logged
those complaints. These platforms are significant as they are
platforms where members of the public can log grievances
relating to service delivery. That is what we are about as the
ANC service delivery and that is why we are supporting this
Budget Vote.
UNREVISED HANSARD
MINI PLENARY - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
THURSDAY, 12 MAY 2022
VOTE NO 11 - PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION, VOTE 7 -
NATIONAL SCHOOL OF GOV AND VOTE 12 - PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION
Page: 77
The commission will continue to focus on the
professionalisation of the public service by promoting ethical
conduct in human resource management and leadership. In aid of
this, the commission will conduct research and monitor and
develop capacity on key public service issues such as ethical
practices in recruitment processes, effect discipline
management and effective management of employee development. A
capable developmental state requires strong human resources
with the necessary skills and capabilities as various of ...
[Time expired.] Thank you, hon Chair. The ANC supports this
Budget Vote.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M Mahlaule): Thank you. Hon
members, may I say that the acting Minister in the earlier
presentation has left six minutes - I am advised. So, when I
didn’t stop him after five minutes, you must know that it’s
because he now has 11 minutes. May now call the hon the Acting
Minister of Public Service and Administration. Hon Minister?
The ACTING MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION:
Thank you very much hon Chairperson, I don’t know why hon Mc
Gluwa was showing his face whether he was trying to intimidate
UNREVISED HANSARD
MINI PLENARY - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
THURSDAY, 12 MAY 2022
VOTE NO 11 - PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION, VOTE 7 -
NATIONAL SCHOOL OF GOV AND VOTE 12 - PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION
Page: 78
me. I welcome all the inputs from all political parties both
positive and negative. These are meant to keep us on our toes.
I thank the IFP, the NFP and the ANC for supporting the budget
vote. We will consider the various inputs and we consider this
as a constructive criticism, but the DA needs to be logical. I
want to support the Deputy Minister in saying that. The Zondo
Commission has been released in phases. Its common knowledge
that the then Deputy Chief Justice now the Chief Justice has
requested the extension to finalise the recommendation. Why
should we pre-empt instead of having a full picture of all the
recommendations in order to implement them holistically? Those
asking us to implement will be the first ones going to the
public or even to court claiming that what we are implementing
is a variance with the recommendations. So, final
recommendations are still ... it is therefore prudent for us
to allow the Zondo Commission’s final report to be released.
This will allow the various government institutions, including
the accounting institutions that would be like the PSC, the AG
and so on to consider the report and respond appropriately.
Well the cases involving the public servants involved in the
grant and fraud is dealt with by Sassa. They are working
UNREVISED HANSARD
MINI PLENARY - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
THURSDAY, 12 MAY 2022
VOTE NO 11 - PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION, VOTE 7 -
NATIONAL SCHOOL OF GOV AND VOTE 12 - PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION
Page: 79
together with without the Technical Assistance Unit, TAU, from
Treasurer which forms part of that Task Team making sure that
those officials are identified and are disciplined. Then the
TAU monitors to ensure departments take steps.
Well Chairperson, I thought of not wasting time maybe
responding to hon Komane of the EFF. There’s no critique
they’ve ever offered. They have never offered any critique.
They are just rejectionist on everything. Hon Komane, yes I
was a teacher and a good one for that matter. I know myself. I
do not know as to whether that is the reason why you once more
calling me to teach you on a difference between a
developmental state and a developed state. Those are two
different things. We are talking of a developmental state here
not a developed state. Otherwise Chair, I don’t want to waste
a lot of time. I want to thank all the members who have
contributed to this particular debate. Thank you very much.
Debate concluded.
The mini-plenary rose at 18:19.
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