Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 29 May 2021
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
TUESDAY, 1 JUNE 2021
Watch video here: Plenary (Hybrid)
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
The House met at 14:03.
House Chairperson Mr C T Frolick took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, in the interest of the safety of all present in the Chamber, please keep your masks on and sit in your designated area. I also have to inform the speakers that will make use of the podium that unfortunately the timer is not working at the moment. We ask you to discipline yourself and stick to the allocated time that you have ... [Laughter.] ... although it will be ... I will be able to monitor the time, don’t worry. Right? I will be able to monitor it but please try as far as possible to stick to the time. If you do see an information technology, IT, technician coming in during proceedings, please be aware that they are trying to fix the system and for no other reason will they enter the Chamber. The first item on the Order Paper is a motion in the name of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party. I now recognise the hon Chief Whip.
NOMINATION OF MEMBERS TO FILL TRUSTEE AND ALTERNATE VACANCIES ON POLITICAL OFFICE-BEARERS PENSION FUND BOARD OF TRUSTEES
(Draft Resolution)
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon House
Chairperson, I move:
That the House—
(1) notes the resolution of the House on 3 December 2020 electing four members as trustees and four as alternates to serve on the Political Office-Bearers Pension Fund’s board of trustees;
(2) further notes that Ms J M Mofokeng, Member of Parliament, MP, who was a trustee, passed away recently, leaving a vacancy to be filled from the majority party;
(3) nominates Ms L F Shabalala, MP, to replace Ms J M Mofokeng, MP, as a trustee; and
(4) further nominates Ms S R van Schalkwyk, MP, to replace Ms L F Shabalala, MP, as alternate.
Motion agreed to.
APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate on Vote No 2 — Parliament:
The SPEAKER: Hon Chairperson and hon members, the times have changed. The daily slog has not necessarily changed. We are
still dealing with poverty, inequality and rising joblessness.
The coronavirus pandemic has simply increased and exaggerated the contradictions under a nonperforming world economy which
engender deep feelings of fear and frustrations.
The unpredictable mutations of this virus, the impact on production and the number of deaths have not strengthened assurances about the future. Anxiety and depression have become common as the world awaits the vaccine that can guarantee life and a return to a situation where economic and
political forces are not sources of increased anxiety and alienation. Under these conditions, citizens have become vulnerable. The usual freedoms of thought, expression and association pale. We feel that in our personal spaces. We can no longer fully control our destinies. We must rely on the
herd, on the collective, on the leadership for survival. So,
we do support the work done by the executive during this period to preserve lives, jobs and the dignity of the many who
are within our borders.
We have done the right things. We have endeavoured to keep calm and positive about the future. We have accepted social
distancing and masks, and we have accepted that social gatherings, funerals and churches must be changed to mitigate
the speed of the spread of this virus. We have given
voluntarily as this House to the Solidarity Fund to help those who are desperate, and some in this House have quietly adopted
people and households. We have adjusted budgets as this House to help fund the procurement of vaccines and to enable the
poor to eat.
We have had to adjust to the new organisational and procedural solutions as Parliament to enable committees and plenary work to take place. We are ready to accept that the virtual, hybrid
and the work from home systems will be with us for a while. We must continue to hold the executive to account. We must represent the people within our borders and internationally.
We must invest in our information communication technology, ICT, and relook our employment processes and models to adjust
to the fast-changing world of work.
The challenges of the lockdown notwithstanding, we managed to
have oversight work, first in clusters and then as committees. We have produced 408 reports. We have had 40 oversight visits.
Lawmaking sessions took place — 29 in the National Assembly and 25 in the NCOP. Sixty public hearings have been held.
Interviews for crucial posts were held. Quarterly reports, the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Reports ... We have done
our work. We have even managed to do our international work,
as well as look at international agreements that we have had to process. This House has held 48 virtual meetings.
As Parliament, we had our scheduled reassessment for
Parliament’s Strategic Plan. We continue to focus on the resolve to strengthen our performance and to improve efficiency in lawmaking and oversight. The needs of a public representative to adequately represent the public means that we must constantly look at the performance of the committees
and the needs of the individual Member of Parliament. This means that we must also be satisfied with the administrative support to the committees. We must ask the following question. Is Parliament structured and resourced to enable members to represent? Is the institution able to help any member to
represent, to inform or to educate? What must Parliament do to
reflect the majority view without diminishing minority views?
Members, you have criticised us, and we accept that we need to follow up on resolutions, undertakings and commitments made by
the executive. We then asked ourselves whether Parliament was able to crack its own whip on itself and on the Cabinet on
behalf of the electorate. We think that we are capable of doing that. Can we perform efficiently nationally and still be
able to represent this country internationally? Can we afford
to? What is the image about ourselves as this Parliament that we want projected around the world?
We marked 25 years of our Constitution a few days ago. Are we
still united in our diversity? Somebody asked me were we ever united in our diversity? Was it important for us to recognise that diversity? My big answer was yes. There was a big moment of opportunity, optimism ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): My apologies, hon Speaker. May I request that the person who interrupted the proceedings now to be removed from the virtual platform? Hon Speaker?
The SPEAKER: Thank you. Is it possible for us to use our sorry
past to create a better future where all will be equal, where peace and stability will be as important as portable water,
where access to health care and safety in the private and public space is guaranteed? Can we grow a democracy that will
survive hunger and chauvinism?
We bid farewell to our Auditor-General, ntate Kimi Makwetu. May his gentle soul rest in peace. We had just given him teeth
to bite away maladministration and financial misconduct. We
hope that our first woman Auditor-General, Me Maluleke, will continue to push us to better results.
We have filled some vacancies in the different institutions
around our government. We have had a very good challenge with the filling of ... the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, board. A good challenge because, as the Houses of Parliament, we have now learned not to just accept the reports from the committees. We have had to redo the recruitment and
placement processes. We acknowledge that putting together advertisements and interviewing candidates is not a requirement for you to become a Member of Parliament. We must however accept that we must take responsibility to recruit and to place fit and proper candidates, whilst not forgetting all
those things that alienate South Africans, like ignoring
gender inclusiveness, like geographical spread, like ignoring disability and accepting that we are a multiracial society
that has accepted nonracism. This means that Parliament can ill afford ill-prepared advertisements, nonrepresentivity in
shortlisting and unprofessional interviews. This means that we take responsibility as Parliament when we make
recommendations, through this House, to the executive for people to get into very strategic positions. If Parliament
lowers the guard, we will end up with below par performance in
areas where the poor and the vulnerable deserve protection.
We have adopted the Rules to enable Parliament to process matters relating to section 194 of the Constitution. These
matters are not dissimilar to the Rules on the impeachment of the Head of State. We have recently made recommendations in our Rules to enable all elected constituencies to take part fully in such deliberations, whether it is section 194 — the removal of the Head of State.
The National Assembly has been cited in a number of court cases. Some challenges the validity of our Rules and processes, and almost the right to conduct our business as an arm of state. We have largely been vindicated by the courts and there are still a few pending matters. Of the 18 matters
which were closed in the courts, we have lost only one labour-
related case as Parliament.
The Constitutional Court has ruled that independent candidates should be allowed to stand for office without belonging to any
political party. We must now as this House make haste and meet the deadline given by the courts to enact the required laws.
Public awareness, participation and stakeholder engagements
are the pillars of our participatory democracy. Surveys
conducted over the years provide valuable information about Parliament and government in general.
With the outbreak of coronavirus, we had to increase and
enhance our communication channels. Our meetings as well as all other business of the Houses have been broadcast live, streamed on channels like YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook. We have additional platforms which enable radio stations and the public to access the recordings of our meetings and sittings.
We have launched Parliament TV. You can access it via ... 408. You can access it and we hope in the latter period you will be able to access it outside ... the DSTV channel. We also want to thank Multichoice for holding our hands throughout this business of starting and launching our TV channel, and we hope
that into the future our relationship will continue.
We hope to increase public participation by featuring
programmes and documentaries to boost access to information and educational materials to the public, to ensure that
participation in lawmaking and oversight is successful.
Like any other organisation, when you face financial constraints, you are forced to review your priorities. Our
budget allocation for 2021-22 is R2 615 858 000. Programme 1,
which is Strategic leadership and governance gets
R120,3 million; programme 2 gets R154,1 million; programme
3 gets R683,2 million; programme 4 which is Support services gets R440,4 million and programme 5 which is Associated
Services gets R746,1 million. The direct charges, which is the remuneration for yourselves hon members, is R471,7 million.
Our baseline has been adjusted downwards for the financial year 2021-22 until 2022-23. These budget reductions are as
follows. For the current one of 2021-22 it is R256 million lower. In the next financial year, it will be R338 million lower and in 2023-24 it will be R296 million lower.
Clearly then, we need to give attention to our spending
patterns and we must then first of all look at our structure.
Is it enabling us to work efficiently? Must we tinker with the priorities and the size or both? What must we give up? The
internal activities or the external ones? What must we prioritise? What must we clearly discard?
Now, we also know that there are things that we cannot
continue doing outrightly and therefore we are engaging with the former members of the executive on their continued
benefits. The reason why we are doing that is because that
budget for former Ministers comes from the budget of Parliament and we cannot continue to do so.
We are also engaging with provincial legislatures. In case
members do not know, when members of the legislature, who have never set foot in this House, retire and continue with Parmed, this House carries the bill. So, what we want to do is not to say it cannot continue; it’s to simply ask the legislatures to take over their burden and allow us to continue with our own.
We are also trying to figure out a different system of ensuring that the funds that must go directly to parties in Parliament do not get put on the budget of Parliament and increase it to such an extent that people think we get more money than we do. So, we are finding a way of ensuring that
party funding goes directly to parties and parties can then
account directly to Treasury and to whoever it is that is important.
On the international front, we continue to represent this
country at international and multilateral levels. We continue to see positive progress at the Southern African Development
Community Parliamentary Forum, SADC-PF, towards our regional Parliament. I am one of the Speakers who are lobbying the
heads of state to ensure that we indeed have a regional
Parliament as soon as possible. We are also very proud of the process made by the SADC-PF on the model laws because it means
that in the near future we will have standardisation and we will be able to apply the law across the region without
misunderstandings and sovereignty issues coming into play. We think that this will help us continue to promote stability and growth in the Pan-African Parliament, PAP ... in the SADC ... [Inaudible.]
Now, because my mouth went to the PAP I’d better talk about it. We host the PAP as a country. We have our members delegated to that House as members of that House. We do need to take proper interest, specifically in the functioning of the PAP. Whatever goes wrong on the floor of the PAP, South
Africa gets the pity, whether we are responsible or not
responsible. The truth is that we have not played our role properly as the host country, as far as that House is
concerned. So, we intend to remedy that. We have been participating ... looking at other structures and looking
specifically at the SADC. The Speaker of the National Assembly of Namibia, the host country for the SADC-PF, is an ex officio
member of that House. We have absolutely no relationship with the ... other than sending the five members. So, we are going
to be approaching ...
However, we also want to reiterate that the PAP is an organ of
the African Union, AU, and that whatever rules, whatever instructions that the AU puts down on all its structures must
apply at the PAP, and therefore we expect that the rotational process and rules will follow on the floor of the PAP.
On the home front, we want to assure the House that we will soon announce the results of our search for the secretary to
Parliament, of our search for the chief financial officer, CFO, and the head of security post.
When Barack Obama in his book speaks about the audacity of hope, he says it is that:
gap between the magnitude of our challenges and the smallness of our politics — the ease with which we are
distracted by the petty and trivial, our chronic avoidance of tough decisions, our seeming inability to build a
working consensus to tackle any big problem.
When I read that ... was our position on the PAP, our position on the issues which bedevil this National Assembly, its
relationship with the executive and its ability to properly
represent those who have given us the honour to come and serve in this House. So, we need to grow that audacity, that
assumption of hope, to tackle the issues that hamper our ability. Is it about our administration as Parliament? Is it
about the individual bursary schemes that Parliament has which focuses on the individual Member of Parliament rather than on a group, and therefore ensure that a committee is properly enabled to do its job? Is it about accepting the old challenges and looking at solutions, whether it hurts or it
does not hurt? Is it about the chronic avoidance of resolving issues that usually make us ... [Interjections.] [Inaudible.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Speaker, my apologies. You see hon members, this Budget Vote of Parliament
is important. Remember there are three different arms of the
state and if we do what we are doing we are disrespecting this arm of the state. So, I will request those members who
continuously interrupt to simply be removed from the platform. Tomorrow we have Budget Vote No 1 and the same may happen, and
we portray a very negative image of the institution. Please continue, hon Speaker.
The SPEAKER: Thank you, House Chair. Is it about forgetting
who we are? Is it about forgetting that we are nothing except
instruments of the electorate? Is it because sometimes we put the party line above those of the general populace and the
needs of the people? Is it about me wishing to shine and dominate, forgetting that a single person can never win the
battle? We need to hold hands to make sure that we get there.
Hon numbers, I thought I should say these few words and listen to you more. I want to thank the Deputy Speaker — he is listening as I know he’s on the virtual ... — for his support
and sometimes for the little fights the two of us have. I want to thank the House Chairs and the committee chairs because in fact, most of our work happens at the committee level; to change the work of the committees into a team South Africa work, to ensure that we consult one another and we negotiate
our spaces because it is not about the parties, it is about
those whom we represent. I want to thank the administration of Parliament. Be sure that we appreciate everybody who ensures
that Parliament looks good and knows where it is going. We cannot forget those whom we have lost this year and last year.
We remain vulnerable to this pandemic but we will always remember our colleagues who have passed on.
Hon members, I put before you the budget of Parliament for
your consideration. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]
Ms B P MABE: Hon Chairperson, the ANC ... [Inaudible.] ... Budget Vote 2 – Parliament.
This debate takes place in the wake of three critical submissions made to the Zondo Commission of Enquiry into Allegations of State Capture by the Speaker to the National Assembly, the former Speaker to the National Assembly ... and the ANC ... and the Chairperson of the NCOP. Let us cut
through the manufactured narratives that have been developed to suit those who generate them, and focus on what the appearance of our Presiding Officers means for our work and the image of Parliament.
It is far too easy to chase after names and identities. Let the Zondo Commission do that work. What we should be seized with is what should change in the work of Parliament. If anything, it has taught us that our committees are not resourced enough, are not vigilant enough, do not follow through enough, and are often reliant on what comes before them, rather than taking what is presented as a trigger to begin their own investigations.
Committees are the engines of Parliament. What we articulate as the programme is as a result of their work.
Government ... [Inaudible.] ... and programmes as well as those of state institutions are meant to be aligned to the legislative mandate and the policy directives.
Our oversight must offer us more questions, following up on issues and not draw assumptions. We must ensure that we cut through the often-created phenomena designed to ...
[Inaudible.] ... us and deal with the essence of what needs to be done.
We should never be distracted when allegations surface. This is what causes us to lose our way with oversight. With allegations, we must demand facts and evidence, and then act informed by the balance of evidence.
For this to happen, we have to address the resources to make it happen. The current budget of Parliament, by the admission of National Treasury, is going to have a negative impact.
Therefore, it is our creativity as the committee which deals with the performance of Parliament that must rise to the occasion.
In addressing some of the challenges, often committees may not receive a response from the Minister with regard to resolutions of the House communicated to the Minister.
Therefore, a resolution tracking gap is what we have identified. Each ... [Inaudible.] ... has the potential to weaken the effectiveness of Parliamentary oversight.
Therefore, we recommend the following in order to bridge the gap.
When the Speaker communicates the House resolution to the relevant Minister, the chairperson of the committee concerned and the House Chairperson responsible for committees must be copied as well as The Leader of Government Business.
The House resolutions should include timeframes by when the relevant Minister will have to respond. If there is no response beyond the period specified in the House resolution communicated to the relevant Minister, the House Chairperson and the chairperson of the committee should notify the Speaker who should then write to the Minister requesting compliance within a certain period, for example, seven days, with the request for a written explanation of the delay. If there is still no response from the relevant Minister, a written complaint by the Speaker must be sent to The Leader of Government Business. At this juncture, the House may even elect to call the Minister to account.
Due to the limited resources Parliament is faced with, it is compelled to make some choices. As such, the Sixth Parliament has chosen two policy priorities to pursue over its five-year term. These are strengthening of oversight and more effective public involvement.
Stronger oversight will require deeper scrutiny by the committees, more effective public involvement and hearings and more effective recommendations and resolutions of Parliament. In turn, deeper scrutiny by committees will require more time allocated for oversight activities, enhanced members’ capacity to ensure effectiveness, deeper insight into issues at hand and active involvement by the public in the form of submissions.
It is critical for Parliament to adequately measure and track its own performance indicators. They are important criteria for target setting which are time, quality and quantity.
Ideally, these three criteria have to be considered equally in target setting. However, in most circumstances, the bias is towards the issue of one criteria depending on key performance indicators that is to be measured.
Over time, Parliament has become more biased towards time when measuring its key performance indicators. This means that there is more focus on the delivery of outputs and less on the quality of those outputs. This has to be changed, and I am ... [Inaudible.] ... Parliament administration informed the committee that, in this current financial year, and going
forward, the measurement of Parliament’s key performance
indicators will be more biased towards quality.
In conclusion, there are gaps we have identified in the oversight and accountability of Parliament and we propose some changes to fill those gaps. It is a concern whether our proposal will materialise owing to the lack of resources Parliament is facing.
I therefore suggest that we consider conducting a final review of how Parliament is resourced without compromising its independence and constitutional ... [Inaudible.] ...
President Nelson Mandela, in 1997, during the International Day of Solidarity with the people of Palestine, said: “We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians.” We pledge our solidarity with the oppressed people of Palestine. The atrocious violence directed towards the Palestinians should jolt all of us to stand up in solidarity for their right to self-determination. We welcome the ceasefire agreement. However, it is not enough. We reiterate the call of the Palestinians for two states that exist side by side in peace in accordance with boundaries that existed prior to June 1967. We call on all people of the world
to stand up for this demand of the Palestinians and nothing else, and we continue to chant, “from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free, from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.” Thank you.
Mr J W W JULIUS: Thank you very much House Chairperson. Allow me to first congratulate and thank all parliamentary staff involved for the swift action and innovation when the Covid-19 pandemic hit our country. These dedicated staff of Parliament stepped up to the plate and it is really appreciated. Thank you very much.
I know the Speaker is an approachable person House Chair that takes criticism very good and I think we should take the opportunity to always criticise so that we can better Parliament because this is the Parliament of the people and not our Parliament.
House Chairperson, during an appearance at the Zondo Commission a few weeks ago, the Speaker of the House hon Thandi Modise acknowledged that there was an impression that Parliament was asleep and that more resources are needed for Parliament’s operations in holding the executive accountable. But this is an extremely loaded statement that must be
interrogated for us to hold the executive of Parliament themselves accountable when it comes to the current Budget Vote and its implications for ordinary South Africans that want to see Parliament of the people working for the people. With respect Madam Speaker, some in Parliament are still fast asleep when it comes to holding the executive of this government accountable.
Afrikaans:
Met respek, agb Speaker, die DA was nie aan die slaap nie, die Parlement was nie aan die slap nie; die ANC was aan die slaap. Die DA het vir Vader Jakob en sy “atjoesters” gereeld in die Huis en selfs in die hof aangevat. Die ANC was vas aan die slaap en ek twyfel of hulle enige tyd nou gaan wakkerskrik, of het hulle hulle opsetlik aan die slaap gehou?
English:
Chairperson, with programmes and targets and performance indicators skewed and outdated, we cannot seriously say Parliament is awake. Allow me to just dig a bit deeper into this.
If you have a look at programme one, there are only two targets. That is not near to challenging our efforts to where
Parliament wants to be working for the people. Two targets in programme one. It also shows that the legal advice given to Parliament is very well executed, it says within seven days. What about the quality of this legal advice that’s always complained about in committees? There’s no target performance indicator for quality. It shows that these targets and performance indicators will not wake up Parliament.
Programme two is achieved, very well done. It’s achieved, it says there achieved but the only problem is that it shows one UJ class was provided for members, very well done.
The fact that Parliament is paying for members to study annually does not even appear anywhere in any of the performance indicators but we’re spending money. So where’s the accountability for that, where do we show what we’re doing? Madam Speaker, the programmes are skewed.
Programme three is also achieved but it ignores the fact that we had many challenges when it comes to translation and interpretation services in this House. If we do not mention it there, then it means we are doing a very good job and it will not be addressed anytime soon. This is yet again another example of doing things just to comply and not having the
desire to excel and make Parliament the House that people expect it to be.
House Chairperson, this is a budget that will keep this Sixth Parliament fast asleep and expect the apologies again over years to come. House Chairperson, the Speaker also asked for more resources so that members can better equip to hold the executive accountable.
We have however seen a budget cut for Parliament and I think we can work with this budget in this Parliament like you said Madam Speaker we need to cut here and there. But I want to urge if only the ANC members can also do their bit in holding the executive accountable, we can do our work with this budget Madam Speaker. A good starting point for them to hold the Ministers accountable will be to ask more uncomfortable questions, whether it’s written or verbal questions and stop with the sweetheart that questions you are not doing anyone a favor in South Africa.
How can a Minister, a Deputy Minister or a President stand here and answer a follow up question from the ANC from a script, you’re giving them the answers? How does that help any Minister, how does it help any South African, how does it help
Parliament to hold them accountable if you give them the answers beforehand?
Hon House Chairperson, allow me to please make one contemporary example of how we are supposed to hold the executive accountable. And yes, hon Mabe let me come with this allegation. The allegation of fraud and corruption involving the Minister of Health as we speak Zweli Mkhize, during the pandemic where South Africans are losing their lives and livelihoods. This is very serious! What is Parliament doing to hold him accountable?
During the Freedom Day speech this year, the hon Speaker of this House made a promise that this institution will sharpen its oversight and hold Ministers more accountable in the fight against corruption and looting of public resources. This is a typical example. I want to see what Parliament is doing with Minister Zweli Mkhize.
Where are the ethics complaints from this side of the House, the ANC members? It is all left up to the DA and other opposition parties represented in this House and we all have a duty to hold them accountable. This while the ANC members
still protect their Ministers, we will never get it right. We will keep on sleeping.
What did the Presiding Officers do to date in this regard to hold true to your commitment at the Zondo Commission and to commitments during their Freedom Day speeches? Both from the NCOP and this House, how do you do more to hold this Minister accountable? South Africans deserve a Parliament that deals swiftly with these allegations and not a Parliament that is fast asleep. I thank you.
Ms N V MENTE: Thank you House Chairperson. The EFF rejects the proposed budget of Parliament. We maintain that the misguided austerity doctrine is malicious and seeks to collapse the state including the collapse of the capacity of democratically elected public representatives to hold the executive and private sector accountable.
We maintain that it is misguided and irrational to continue to have Parliament in Cape Town simply to please colonial arrangements that sort to bring together white colonial racist. To insist on locating Parliament in both its practices and physical infrastructure including its location is
admitting that we’ll remain the subjects of the crown and empire and we are not fighting to free ourselves from it.
We must move Parliament to a central location accessible to the majority of our people to make Parliament truly the people’s Parliament. Our people from Mpumalanga, Limpopo, North West, Free state and some people from KwaZulu-Natal will be able to drive to Parliament, make inputs on the legislation, hold the executive to account and still be able to go back to their families. Something that they cannot do because Cape Town to many of us is a very foreign country.
We maintain that Parliament fails to reimagine its powers and strategic position within the state and society. Since the beginning of the Sixth Parliament, we have seen a reversal of serious gains we have made and won during the Fifth Parliament because of the arrival of the EFF.
The Speaker earlier on spoke about our first meeting in terms of the strategic plan of Parliament and it was very promising, but it’s disastrous. To date we haven’t implemented anything. When we came to Parliament as the EFF we woke even the sleepiest to hold the executive accountable. We made sure that the public was interested in what’s going on in the Chambers
and committee meetings in the Fifth Parliament. We made it fashionable to introduce Private Member Bills in the Fifth Parliament. We made it possible for the majority of black people to come together and agree on the need to take drastic steps, amend section 25 of the Constitution and in the process ensure that Parliament listens to as many people as possible in the Fifth Parliament. We are confident that we may still find each other Speaker, as black people to conclude on the important work to ensure that we address the important question of land once and for all and ensure that we begin to dismantle neo-colonial networks that continue to oppress our people through the monopoly of land and the ownership that is monopolised in the hands of very few white people.
It is worrying that this appears to reverse all the gains that we have made. Part of the reason why this continued degeneration is that Parliament does not have a permanent secretary. The current acting secretary has been acting on the position for the past four years. This has led to failure to adopt a strategic plan and implement it properly.
Parliament has seen the collapse of language services, the language unit almost reduced to a shadow of its former self. Instead of increasing capacity to ensure that members receive
translation at committees, we have seen the departure of key staff members. Parliament does not have capable legal office that gives proper guidance to committee work and assist members of Parliament to draft member Bills in a timeous manner. Committees section does not have enough capacity to assist members in their respective portfolio committees.
Parliament workers who have been working for the institution and have the memory of the institution find themselves retrenched because of budget cuts prior to their time.
We sit here as over 70 year olds but we retrench people as old as 40 years old. Parliament continues to pass legislation that sits with the President for years, some even more than four years without being signed into law and there’s no mechanism to deal with this vacuum.
The EFF proposes that we amend the legislation to ensure that there are time frames imposed on the executive to ensure that they sign legislation and return it to Parliament.
Parliament cannot ensure that Ministers respond to questions on written replies on time and satisfactory. Some Ministers are so arrogant that they even dismiss queries and that is also condoned by the Presiding Officers.
Some Ministers even instruct CEOs and Boards of SOEs and departments not to allow MPs to conduct unannounced oversites even announced oversites in their facilities. But they do not take Parliament seriously instead we must first tell them that we are coming days before so that they can prepare and mislead us even further. Parliament has stopped doing the unannounced oversites to please these people and it helps them to be corrupt.
Chairpersons of portfolio committees who behave as if they are appointed by Ministers to represent departments are also very problematic Chairperson, we need to nip this in the bud.
Speaker, we should not be comfortable doing the bare minimum. Let’s find the energy, the power and eager that the EFF injected in the Fifth Parliament to ensure that this is indeed the people’s Parliament.
Speaker, during the Zondo Commission, you made mention that Parliament owes the people of South Africa an apology on the conduct of its own and not holding the executive to account.
We as the EFF do not owe South Africa an apology. We’ve been
telling you and the country that these Ministers do not want
to account. Corruption is actually condoned by Parliament. We’ve been saying this over and over again. Presiding Officers are protecting Ministers that are corrupt, that is why today we have to have an inquiry.
In fact, even that particular inquiry was because of how we forced it and how we were forcing the Ministers to account, everyone including the President. As part of these to ensure that Parliament channel is free to ensure that all our people access the Parliament processes on TV. Thank you very much. We reject the budget.
Mr N SINGH: Thank you, hon House Chairperson. I don’t know whether I’m serving in the same Parliament as some other hon members. However, having said that it has been almost 15 months since this Parliament last met in the physical manner in which it has been a custom since 1994. The advent of coronavirus 2019, Covid-19 necessitated this Parliament to adoption of a new normal, our emotion into it and as well as embracing of the Fourth Industrial Revolution in terms of a manner in which we conduct our parliamentary duties. The custom that must be ... [Inaudible.] ... hon House Chairperson and hon Speaker, is where we are able to fulfil our mandates on responsibilities as solemnest of the citizenry. The answer
to some extent is the affirmative, you have mentioned some of it, hon Speaker. We have passed budgets, considered legislation, received Ministerial reports and have ... [Inaudible.] ... sessions and hold the President and the Deputy President.
However, due to Covid restrictions we were not able to physically engage with the public as per normal. On the plus side we saved a tremendous amount of money on parliamentary travel allowances with the Members of Parliament, MPs, and members of support staff, particularly Ministerial and party support staff working from their homes. At case in point at the state of the nation address that is usually cost millions that only cost about R200 000 this year. There are other avenues to pursue as well in terms of budget servings such as what you have referred to, hon Speaker, the cost of carrying pass permit members which costs to be carried by the provincial legislatures. This anomaly needs to be corrected.
Moving forward, what is it that what we must do? The word accountability has been used quite a lot by my colleagues, but it seems that accountability only on what the executive does. However, I want to focus on accountability to the people that elected us. We are accountable to them in the first place.
Now, hon House Chairperson, Covid protocols provide an opportunity for MPs to continue making use of hybrid sessions and to spend more time with the people that have elected them subject to Covid safety protocols. However, for that to occur, hon House Chairperson and Madam Speaker, one must stand ... [Inaudible.] ... constituency officers are fully functional and fully capacitated in terms of human and financial resources. These officers should be functioning as a conduit allowing local constituencies challenges and problems to reach the highest level of government.
However, looking at the budget set aside for the constituency officers and allowances, the objectives of Taking Parliament to the People will now certainly not to be met. The IFP suggests that utilise of serving from travel and other costs and reallocate them to ensure that constituency officers are viable conduit in addressing and attending to queries from members of the public. This is a challenge, but also must be seen as an opportunity that there’s a reason from Covid and its associated new normal. I want to turn, hon House Chairperson, to the role of parliamentary committees in investigating and interrogating departmental business, and I believe that this must be strengthened. Three hours per week
... [Inaudible.] ... do oversight mechanism and injustice in most committees.
Committees must be probing departments, for example, I’ve been in a Committee of Public Enterprises as regard to Eskom ... [Inaudible.] ... because then moved to former commission of inquiry costing around a billion rand. Now, if this budget ... [Inaudible.] ... this budget and being moved towards greater capacitation of portfolio committees, it would have bene able to perform a far deeper probe into this matter. Further, it would not now find itself being accused that members of the public are not performing its function. All portfolio committees as a main drivers of parliamentary oversight should be capacitated to perform a much greater investigative and in local inspection role must just be leading this to the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa.
I also believe, hon House Chairperson, that the skills audit of support staff in all portfolio committees must be carried out and where shortfalls are encountered urgently ... [Inaudible.] ... should be implemented. While we do not have a
... [Inaudible.] ... budget the executive must ensure that Parliament receives at least a requisite amount of funding to ensure an effective oversight role and optimal functionality
in caring out this co-mandates. This is not the case currently. And I also believe, hon House Chairperson, that Chairpersons of select committees should be ... [Inaudible.]
... the opposition party members should chair committees like
in the Scopa. I think there’ll be greater accountability.
In conclusion, we want to thank the parliamentary administration under the leadership of the hon Speaker, the Deputy Speaker, the House Chairpersons, the NA Secretariat, the NA Table support staff and parliamentary information and technology, IT. It is not uncommon for me to receive mails from the NA at nine or 10 o’clock in the evening from the NA Table. Their collective commitment to ensuring that Parliament continues with this work is greatly appreciated. The IFP supports this Budget Vote. I thank you, House Chairperson.
Dr C P MULDER: Hon House Chairperson and hon Speaker, I didn’t plan to start my speech off without complimenting you, Madam Speaker. I was prepared with a lot of criticism, and I’ve got them all hear and then I listened to the EFF and I realised whoa, things could get way worse. [Laughter.] Therefore, Madam Speaker, I have to reconsider ... [Interjections.]
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: You must just retire, you are old.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon member!
Dr C P MULDER: I’m so tempted to speak about the EFF, shame, shame.
Ms E N NTLANGWINI: Leave us alone, wena [you]. You are your
biggest nightmare, that is your problem. We won’t leave you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members on the virtual platform, please, you know you may not like what the member says, but he has the right to say what he has to say. Continue, hon member.
Ms H O MKHALIPHI: Chairperson, please protect us. He must stop speaking about the EFF... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No, hon member, you are now out of order. The member at the podium needs protection from you.
Dr C P MULDER: Thank you, hon House Chair. Madam Speaker, I’ll get back to the debate. Section 42(3) of the Constitution clearly stipulates what we are supposed to do, we are the National Assembly and we are elected to represent the people.
Therefore, then it says it gives an indication to our duties that we have to choose the President, that we’ve done. We are supposed to have to be a national forum for public consideration of issues, that we also do. I would suggest we should do it more often; we should pass legislation. And then I think the most important one we should be scrutinising and overseeing executive action. That is what the Constitution is states. It goes further in section 55(2(a)) and (b) and this is exactly what we need to do.
Now, the hon Mabe started off and she referred to the executive to be held to account and she also referred to the Zondo Commission and then she made the point that the problem is from her perspective is that committees are not well resourced and that is why we find it difficult to keep the executive to account. I’m afraid, Madam Speaker, I do not agree with that. It’s not a question that committees or members are not well resourced, it’s a different problem, and the problem as far as I’m concerned is a problem of the political will. What we need is the executive and the legislative branch are too close to one another and with all due respect if you look at the ruling party, 74 of your members of caucus are members of the executive, and it’s
almost a third, one out of every three members is of the executive.
However, if there is absolute separation, strongly separation, between the executive and the legislative branch, it would be better and will be more easy to really keep the executive to account. I remember during the Nkandla affair, for example, I saved in two ad hoc committees on Nkandla and it was not a question of resources not being available obviously there was a lack of political will. It was not until the Constitutional Court made its findings that certain things where had to be addressed, then suddenly things changed around and then with all due respect members of the ruling party said that Parliament failed. Parliament didn’t fail, it was some members who failed because obviously understand the political dynamics in that involved, that’s really a problem.
If I can come back to how we should keep the executive more perhaps to account, in the past there was a mechanism called interpolation. Interpolations was kind of a quick debate of 10 or 15 minutes debate, where two members of a political party would ask a specific question to the member of the executive, member of the executive would have the chance to reply, but it was really some lively interaction and it was really debate. I
think we should really think in terms of perhaps look again at that mechanism to keep the executive to account and it makes for lively debate and interaction. Also with regard to questions in the House, Madam Speaker, I understand quite often that presiding officers are in a difficult position when members of the executive do not necessarily give a comprehensive answer.
Therefore, obviously, we from the House feel that the executive should be pushed to give a comprehensive answer. I think we should look into that because members of the executive should not come to Parliament and really not answer those questions. It frustrates the House, it frustrates the image of Parliament and it creates a huge problem. Secondly, hon House Chairperson and Madam Speaker, I think we are not doing justice to our Budget Votes. It is not a good idea to have six Budget Votes on one day and to just almost push those things through. There should be much more time spent in terms of real interaction and real debate. I think that’s rather important and we should look into that as well.
Hon Speaker, in terms of the functioning of Parliament I really think and it’s true that Parliament is exceptionally well in terms of getting things under control when the Covid
epidemic started and I think we should complement our staff and everybody involved. However, I really think it’s time that Parliament should get back to normality. We understand the problem of Covid, but really, really, the House shouldn’t look like this, at least 50% of the members should be present when Parliament is in session and it’s becomes too easy with all due respect to too many members just to stay somewhere, be ... [Inaudible.] ... on the platforms, but our work is here.
Because Parliament is not Parliament the way that your function at the moment, it’s not Parliament. The debate is part of the situation but a huge part of Parliament is interaction between members in the corridors, in the committee rooms, where they work together, where they talk to one another and ... [Interjections.]
Dr M Q NDLOZI: We don’t want to interact with you in the
corridor, wena [you]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon member!
Ms H O MKHALIPHI: You have Covid yourself, you have Covid.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Mkhaliphi, I know that you are a Whip of the EFF, but really you know and
understand the Rules of Virtual Sittings. You should indicate if you want to make an input and you cannot simply switch on your microphone and disrupt the member. If it happens again, I’ll have no choice but I will remove you. Continue, hon member.
Dr C P MULDER: Thank you, House Chairperson. The point I’m making is that I think we should get back to normality within the reality of Covid at the moment. Please let’s do that and get Parliament where it should be. I think it’s very important that we get the institution going again, because we’ve got a huge challenge to rebuild also the credibility of this institution, the people want to see us here doing our job, and I think we should do that. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Dr M Q NDLOZI: Nobody wants to see this guy.
Mr A H M PAPO: On a point of order, House Chair, hon Ndlozi has intervened four times. There was a member who only made a mistake once and was removed from the platform, but this is not on. Member Mkhaliphi has done it twice, member Ntlangwini has done it twice and nothing has happened to them.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, I’m chairing the session and the Virtual Rules do allow for interjections to be made, right. If you read the Virtual Rules you will see interjections can be made and I will use my discretion as to when a member will be removed, and I’ve made the point why the member at the beginning was removed because the hon Speaker was addressing the House. It’s equal to a separate arm of the state. Hon Swart!
Mr S N SWART: Thank you, House Chair. May we firstly from the ACDP side thank the Speaker, the Deputy Speaker, House Chairs and all parliamentary staff for the incredibly hard work during this past challenging year, particularly those in the IT section, well-done with arrangements, well-done with the hybrid sessions and the virtual sessions. However, I want to support what Mr Mulder has said about returning to a state of normality if everywhere else society is returning to a state of normality, we as leaders should be more here in this House.
House Chairperson, on 19 April the hon Speaker, apparently for the Zondo Commission apologised to the nation saying that it was regrettable that Parliament had acted late on allegations of State Capture. The ACDP wants to make it very clear that opposition parties consistently raised the issue of state
corruption and State Capture over many years, but were largely ignored. It was only in 2017, with the Eskom parliamentary enquiry that we saw brave souls from the ANC such as the hon Dorothy Ranto others taking a stand with opposition members.
So, yes an apology was due, but not from our side and not in our name. The Speaker also admitted to challenges facing Parliament in trying to hold the executive to account. We are in agreement that there has been some improvement since the March 2016, in Nkandla judgement where the court made a damning ruling against Parliament.
However, the ACDP remains deeply concerned about Parliament’s role this past year with specific reference to the regulations in terms of the National Disaster Management. It is significant that a High Court Judge Davis said about the regulations, there are many instances of share irrationality. The State of Emergency Act and its regulations are understandably subject to parliamentary scrutiny, but the Disaster Management Act and regulations which give the Co- operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta, Minister sweeping powers to declare and extend a National State of Disaster are not. Surely, there should be a same level of oversight given the ... [Interjections] ... impact that one of the world’s longest lockdown has had on individuals, churches,
businesses and then an estimated of 1,5 million people losing their jobs. Yet, we see a return to level 2.
Now, we would like to have some parliamentary ... [Interjections.] ... and consultation on that decision in terms of those regulations. Therefore, if we are serious about holding the executive to account, hon Speaker, we need to look at amending the Disaster Management Act to improve parliamentary oversight and to stop executive encroachment on the legislative authority of parliamentary subordinate legislation. And so we look to the proposals contained in Mr Cilliers Brinks Private Member’s Bill in this regard. [Applause.] Lastly ... [Inaudible.] ... misplaced comments about Israel concerned they are not helpful in bringing peace to the Middle East. My response is ... [Time expired.]
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Thank you very much, House Chair, indeed we also support the call for Parliament to go normality. We are also of the view as UDM, that while virtual meetings have served their purpose but to some extent our ... [Inaudible.]
... is begging to lose its home ground advantage due to virtual meetings that is on. At some point, it will be important for Parliament to consider the effectiveness of the virtual meetings in oversight, conduct a study of that.
House Chair, all over the Parliament exist to represent the people in order to ensure that the voice of the people is represented in the decision making processes of government. In other words, as the backdrop, rather of representative democracy. Parliament exist to ensure that the government of the people by the people.
Regrettable over past couple of decades, the voice of the people has been largely ignored in the decision making processes of Parliament, instead the personal interest of the different ruling party leaders, took centre stage. These leaders seemed to derive a perverse pleasure from keeping away the foundation of this importance of this institution by turning it into a rubber stamping institution for all their dubious decision and government corruption.
It is therefore not surprising from where we sit that quite regularly Parliament is blamed for its failure to play the oversight role over government, over the Executive at the State Capture Commission Inquiry. We also found it regrettable that the Speaker of Parliament apologised on behalf of Parliament to all South Africans, for claiming that Parliament failed to hold the Executive to account. But, what many people seem to be forgetting is that, it is not Parliament that is
failing South Africa but rather it is the ANC deployees and some of the Members of Parliament, that has failed South Africans.
During the Zuma years oversight, seemed to be the only purview of the opposition not institution of Parliament. While in the opposition we were cut to hold the Zuma Executive to account, the ruling party Members of Parliament, made it their mission to protect and more ... [Inaudible.] ... the of the Members of the Executive both in the portfolio committees and in the House.
House Chair, the scenes that are playing themselves out at the Pan African Parliament, are what happens when an institution such as Parliament has lost its credibility in the eyes of the
... [Inaudible.]
It is important that we never allow our Parliament to reach that level of credibility crisis. Therefore, the Speaker’s decision to ensure that all political parties have the right to vote in the Public Protector Committee, is commendable, and an important step to ensure the credibility of our Parliament as an institution process. That being said, we strongly support the call by Southern and Northern Regional Caucuses
for the rotation of the Presidency at the Pan African Parliament. I thank you, House Chair.
Mr I K MOROLONG: House Chair, we join many other voices in conveying our appreciation of the Speaker of this august House, the Deputy Speaker, the entirety of the parliamentary staff and Parliament commitment during the most daunting period of our parliamentary work.
The ANC National Policy Conference held in June 2017, enjoined the governing party to undertake an assessment on the efficacy
... [Interjection.] ...sector ... [Inaudible.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Morolong, you know, I think we have seen your face, however it’s better if you rather switch off your video because it causes a reflection on the screens in the House.
Mr I K MOROLONG: ... thank you very, House Chair, such an assessment must establish whether the legislative sector is appropriately configured, adequately resourced, optimally functioning and working cooperatively with other arms of the state across all spheres.
The National Policy Conference, expanded on the need to ensure that our allocation of resources to Parliament must be adequate to perform its constitutional duties. And that Parliament must build its own capacity, to manage its finances. The latter was in reference with the Financial Management of Parliament Act as amended in 2014. Which enables financial functions that oversee the expenditure of Parliament’s budget and how parliament’s budget is drawn up.
Similar to a department, Parliament through the accounting officer submits a draft budget to the National Treasury 10 months prior to the start of the financial year. Following the amendment to the Financial Management of Parliament Act, in 2014, Parliament must surrender to the National Treasury for depositing into the National Revenue Fund, any funds not spent in that year.
However, the challenge is that even the fact that the legislative arms is constitutionally obliged to exercise oversight over the executive. The very arm of state that has to exercise oversight does not receive the necessary financial commensurate with its constitutional responsibilities. For instance, just over 10 days ago the Joint Standing Committee on the Financial Management of the Parliament, raised concerns
with officials from Treasury about the fact that Parliament budget had been reduced significantly compared to the previous fincaial year. Treasury anticipated that this cut would affect Parliament’s ability to conduct its oversight function and its ability fill vacancies.
The committee voiced it concern that Parliament’s budget reduction of about 8,7% was harder than that of other government departments, despite the fact that Parliament’s constitutional responsibilities, were increasing in volume and complexities. The committee, felt that for Parliament to effectively carry out its constitutional responsibilities, it requires additional funding and not reduction.
The committee further directed that at its next schedule meeting with Treasury, the Minister of Finance and its team should explain what will be done to increase Parliament’s budget allocation.
Hon members, the irony of the situation is that the executives, according to National Treasury figures for the Financial year 2021-22, will receive R896 billion to carry out their responsibility whilst Parliament is only allocated a
fraction at just over R2 billion, yet Parliament is expected to provide and has oversight of the executives.
If we examine what is expected from the collective of Chief Whips, we have to:(a) engage in political management of all processes, (b) politically manage the programme of Parliament,
(c) reach consensus so that there’s progress, (d) ensure that the leader of government business on behalf of the executive is constantly briefed in order to we have a mutually reinforcing working relation, (e) ensure that the work of the communities in their legislative and oversight function is enhanced.
Further examples of what we have to do within a declining budget are as follows; under the Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Act. Parliament passes the budget timeously each year without fail and adhere to the onerous quarterly responsibilities of the Act. Parliament holds the executive to account without fear or favour and this generates healthy and non-antagonistic tensions between ourselves and the executive. We are duty bound as part of our oversight work to set Adhoc committees to further investigate allegations into institution for which we have oversight.
Parliament continues to make strategic appointment to statutory bodies on annual basis.
Compared to other developing countries, including those on our continent we under budget for the work that is delegated by the Constitution to Parliament. In many other developing countries their Parliaments will receive a top slice on basis of needs. In the case of our own Parliament, a 0% base budgeting model is huge with each item being justified, the responsibilities of Parliament have grown and not decreased, the demands of our people in Parliament have grown, yet the funding is decreasing.
With regards to oversight over the executive, a comparative analysis between what the executive has in terms of capacity and resources and what Parliament gets in terms of capacity and resources reflects a huge imbalance, whilst you obviously not argue that there should be equal but rather than that Parliament should be adequately resourced and capacitated to enable it meet its constitutional obligations in reality to carry out effective oversight.
Parliament requires specialised team to undertake investigations on the ground to receive report prior to any
oversight being undertaken. Primary research and preliminary reports are not the standard practice of the Parliament, precisely because of the lack of resources. The current situation in reality means that Parliament, to a larger degree is dependent on executive to assist Parliament to do oversight on the executive, this is a fundamental constitutional contradiction.
Hon House Chair, we have to agree that Joint Standing Committee on the Financial Management of the Parliament, should conduct an investigation into the necessary financial changes that need to be introduced in order to enhance effective oversight, by Parliament over the executive, table legislative drafting and provide grounded outreach work to parliamentary constituency offices. These recommendations can then be tabled on the Standing Committee on Appropriations, which is mandated in terms of the Money’s Bill Act to make recommendations on adjustment to a particular vote of funds.
Our people, hon members, demand a higher level of scrutiny and accountability on public finances. We as party representatives are duty bound to meet this demand. We can only succeed when we are fully capacitated to ensure that our oversight is both
effective and qualitative. The ANC supports this Budget Vote. I thank you.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Thank House Chairperson, let me at very outset indicate that the NFP will support Budget Vote 2 Parliament, tabled here today. But, I think I will be failing in my duty, hon House Chairperson, if I do not commend Madam Speaker, over the way she has conducted herself, over the last two years, particularly as a Speaker of Parliament. And, I want to indicate why I am saying this. For the first time after having been addressing this for many years, that Madam Speaker has actually recognise the role of smaller parties in participating in Parliament itself. ‘
And, under the Madam Speaker, who highlighted the fact that different political parties have different visions and ideologies, we were then able to achieve and agree on more time for smaller parties to participate, particularly during Sona. For more opportunities for smaller parties to participate, particularly in term of motions and things like that and also for smaller parties to get voting rights, particularly under the Section 194 like now we have done on the Public Protector, which really, you can see progress that has been made, which were not able to make for a many, many
years, that I particularly, House Chairperson, been trying to indicate and express in particular House.
Having said that, I know there was an opposition by some political parties because they believe - and I think some of them did not understand when hon Kwankwa, trying to indicate and reiterated what a weighting voting was, but I guess education plays an important part there.
However, I want to say, the issue particularly of oversight is a concern for me, that why smaller political parties or all political parties are participating in the oversight process. All we do, House Chairperson is when we come back. We report on our ... [Inaudible.] ... the reports are actually adopted in Parliament and that’s where it ends and then it goes into the Bill and very little or nothing happens to the Bill, consequences based on the reports and our findings and we believe that is a ... [Inaudible.]
Another challenge that we find in is public representatives and in this case, representatives of National Assembly here in Parliament continue to report to the political party, should there not be mechanism put in place that public representatives who get paid by Parliament through the tax’s
payers should accountable to Parliament and not only to the political parties.
Then, the issue that we have, and the issue of constituency funds that have been allocated – it is not clear House Chairperson, there’s no enough clarity on exactly what and what you cannot use that constituency funds for. So, I think we want more clarity on that. But, very importantly to ensure that this funds are used for the right purpose and that it is to promote Parliament and a goal between Parliament and the people as a whole. Has my time left I see...?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, your time has expired.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Thank you very much, the NFP supports the Budget Vote tabled here, thanks.
Mr K E MAGAXA: Hon Chair, this year’s parliamentary Budget Vote finds Parliament under the intense scrutiny of the nation, unlike the previous years. We enter this debate in the week of both the Speaker and the previous Speaker of the NA together with the Chairperson of the NCOP appearing before the Zondo Commission. It will, at face value, seem strange that an
arm of the state is summoned through its presiding officers to appear before a commission on state capture.
What it would imply is that somehow we, as Parliament, are complicit in conduct and behaviour that, in the view of the commission, is likely to weaken the state. This must, for all of us, not be a matter to deal with in a frivolous way, as some opposition parties would want to, but rather one of deep self-introspection in assessing the veracity of these claims.
Presiding Officers have spoken and they represented all of us as Members of Parliament. So, my response is not to cover the grounds that they have, but rather to examine what causes weaknesses to exist in the institution of Parliament, which later lead to speculation about the ability of Parliament to uphold its constitutional mandate.
To meet the needs of the people, both Parliament and its public representatives require a necessary and relevant capacity and capability, which are not the same, to respond to the multiple demands of our people. We still have Members of Parliament who cannot even differentiate between a foreign country and a part of South Africa, for example, some refer to Cape Town as a foreign country. That is the problem we have.
What is our experience after we have arrived in Parliament? We go through induction, both by Parliament and our political parties. Our political parties orientate us to the battle of ideas and the mandate we are given as employees of the party. Parliament takes us through inductions of about two weeks in which we are meant to grasp a very complex institution, its Rules, procedures, and very often, an unwritten protocol. In classes we all attend, it is assumed that we all have equal capacities to grasp and understand the information, for example, that we all have matric, we all have degrees, etc, not knowing that some can hardly read and write and some have with fraudulent qualifications.
The induction by Parliament, in no way, sufficiently prepares a public representative to deal with the complexity of oversight, legislative drafting and constituency work.
Instead, we have to work our way through necessary procedural matters of members’ responsibilities, forms to be filled in, procedures for all manner of application, etc. we are even told that we have to call one another honourable, even if the one you call honourable is obviously not.
We are then inducted to the fact that where there are other deficits, Parliament provides support and this is where the
challenge starts. Parliament, if it is serious about building the capacity of public representatives, has to relook its programme. When public representatives arrive, an entire month of grounding needs to be put aside to allow both Parliament and political parties enough time and thereafter, self- cultivation.
We must also understand the difference between oversight and opposition role. Don’t try to co-opt us to your own political responsibility. If you can’t do your own oppositional work, don’t co-opt us. We are not an opposition to our Cabinet.
For example, regarding legal interpretation, which is a critical skill in Parliament, we are told, there is a parliamentary Legal Service department to provide support, but what does this mean? Instead of building capacity, we became dependent. Whilst we appreciate the support, a course in legal interpretation will greatly assist public representatives to carry out their work better. At least, if we have that particular course, we will forgive you when you elevate your course into a law degree, unlike those who claim to have legal degrees, while they have matric.
Take the matter of oversight. Oversight is not an issue that requires one particular skill. There is financial oversight, and the ability to analyse financial statements. There is policy oversight and the ability to interpret policy and its application by government. Monitoring and evaluation goes with particular tools, which have indicators that need to be applied. This can differ between national departments, state- owned entities, provincial government and national government. There is no training in these at all, rather a broad reference to monitoring and evaluation.
As public representatives, we have to pick up and self- cultivate as we go along and then be dependent on support staff who may be very helpful or it might not be the case. Oversight and legislative drafting also require analysis and critique. These are the skills we are not introduced to.
Let us go to our deployees, committee. We arrive through deployment in a committee. We receive a legacy report, for which we are thankful. We are given a briefing of the work of the committee and introduced to support staff. Thereafter, you have to proceed.
With regard to specialisation, if I look at my committee, was something we had to work on ourselves internally, as political parties. Parliament has to give ongoing specialised training through the duration of the five-year term, so that committees are able to produce enhanced oversight and better quality outputs and better quality outcomes.
While we understand well the concept of battle-ready, a soldier dressed only in a uniform with no military training is intendent to perish in the first battle they enter. This is what gives rise to what we have to enjoy in this Parliament, where some individuals without the necessary skills and capacity resort to vulgarity, insult, shouting, making claims and flimsy accusations, and question, oblivious of the legality of everything that underpins our work in Parliament.
Rudeness and progressive minds are totally different things. While we are on the matter of decorum, let us remind ourselves in the NA that it is now five years since we have reviewed the NA Rules and simply the experience of the application of these Rules inform us that it is time for the next review.
Certainly, despite what I have mentioned, we have been able to meet the needs of the people in this Sixth Parliament. Our
work on addressing the national grievance, the land question through our work in the Section 25 Ad hoc committee and the Expropriation Bill under the Public Works Committee, our work on the Gender-Based Violence Bill, which we shall debate shorty, the National Health Insurance, etc, are all indicators that, despite all these weaknesses that I have mentioned, we have been able to rise and deliver against our constitutional mandate.
In conclusion, the centrality of this Parliament as a legislative body, being rooted among the people, means that Parliament has to provide far more resources to outreach and constituency work. What is currently being provided is just not sufficient for public representatives to meet their obligation, to play their own oversight work ... [Time expired.] The ANC supports this Vote. [Applause.] [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: We are told Al Jama-ah is not here.
Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon Deputy Speaker, we are here. How can you miss me?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Go ahead, hon member.
Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon Deputy Speaker, you cannot deny me an opportunity to say ...
Afrikaans:
Die ADJUNKSPEAKER: Die horlosie is verkeerd. Kan jy dit regmaak, asseblief.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I was sorting out the time, just in case you think that I am going to take some of your minutes.
Mr M G E HENDRICKS: yes, I was worried, hon Deputy Speaker, that you would deny me the opportunity to thank Parliament for the excellent service that they have rendered to Al Jama-ah.
Since we took up our first seat in Parliament, they treated us as if we were the governing party. Every staffer in Parliament makes you feel special and gives you special treatment and you think that you are being treated better than members of other parties.
It is quite correct that they treat everyone the same and we really use this opportunity to say that this is a budget that we support with great honour.
Having said that, we want to bring to the attention of Parliament that there needs to be more outreach by the Research department and Legal Services, especially to assist smaller parties and also assist us with our Private Members’ Bills. If there is one criticism I want to make it is that it is an area that Parliament is lacking and they need to speed up support for Private Members’ Bills, especially by smaller parties. They cannot discriminate against us like they have done with Al Jama-ah who submitted a Private Member’s Bill some time ago and there seems to be no progress. And you are aware of court’s decision that in the case of Private Bills, smaller parties must be given the same assistance like the governing party.
There are times when I feel ashamed to be part of this Parliament, as it is sometimes perceived to be associated with cronyism, pro-apartheid, pro-Israel, but that is not the fault of Parliament, but some political parties who praise President Mandela but adopts a position that goes against his legacy and their position holds back the freedom that Mandela speaks about. We cannot complete or freedom unless Palestine is free and they are holding up that freedom. They are opposition parties and they are doing a disservice to the country.
Having said that, we feel that Al Jama-ah goes out of its way to take Parliament to the streets. We have at least five constituency offices. We have an administrator looking after learners. We have an administrator looking after rural areas and we also have administrators where our constituency is and we would like to assure Parliament that we are doing that and we support the budget. Thank you.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, Madam Speaker, Members of Parliament, Winston Churchill once famously said:
I would say to the House, as I said to those who have joined this Government, I have nothing to offer but blood, toil,
tears and sweat.
We have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. We
have before us many, many long months of struggle and of suffering.
I think it is fair to say that this Parliament is going through its fair share of toil and struggle. As not only are we faced with a pandemic that no one could have ever imagined.
But we are also faced with the Zondo Commission that is now exposing things that we could have never imagined.
Now it has never been more important that Parliament is viewed as an institution of trust, as an institution of democracy and as an institution of standing together as the South African people as it is during the time of a pandemic when people were afraid and people are looking for leadership.
There has to be strong and decisive leadership. That is why I find it unacceptable that we sit in a Parliament where members that sit alongside us have been proved to be members involved in personal protective equipment, PPE, scandals and still retain their positions, still retain their chairmanship positions and some are Ministers.
How do we expect the country to take us seriously? I do a lot of talks at schools as I am sure we all do and is one of the great joys of being a Member of Parliament when you are invited to an educational institution and you know what the kids say, yes, we watch Parliament because its lots of fun.
It’s fun to see people being thrown around. It’s fun to see the insults being hurled.
The great Dene Smuts who I had the honour of calling my mentor. I will never forget, I went into her office one day, I had just become a Member of Parliament in 2009, just turned 30 as well, and I walked into her office and I said: “Ooh Dene I have just heard some juicy gossip” and she put up her finger and she said to me: “No, we are not here to gossip, we are legislatures and our job is to legislate”.
I don’t want to be a Member of Parliament wherein one year of
Parliament or one term of Parliament we passed 13 Bills. That’s not what we are here to do. We have missed the purpose of what it means to be a Member of Parliament. But what do we do? We come up here and I’m actually buoyed by the fact that people are making speeches where we seem to sort of be on the same page except for one party that really means nothing anyway in any one’s lives and all of a sudden out of ... [Interjections.] Yes, whatever, point proved. [Laughter.] And then a so called hon member ... [Interjections].
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Natasha, you do that next time you are gone.
Mr D W MACPHERSON: Deputy Speaker?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Your mic will be switched off because you are doing this repeatedly. Hon Frolick, spoke to you about this matter and you are continuing with it. This is ... Yes, who is speaking?
Mr D W MACPHERSON: Deputy Speaker, a point of order.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes.
Mr D W MACPHERSON: Deputy Speaker, the hon Ntlangwini is continuously interrupting the Chief Whip of the Opposition. She is the one who should have her mic muted or thrown off the platform. I want to ask you to rule on that because she is interjecting the member on the floor. Thank you.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, so clearly you are not listening to me. Clearly ... [Laughter.] Go ahead hon Chief Whip. Please, go ahead.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Thank you very much. I am so glad that I am the hon Tasha. So a hon member comes up here and discusses how we need to be more cordial and we need to start respecting one another, and what does he do? He immediately refers to me as the one, he doesn’t have to say
the name because we all know who it is, who supposedly lied about having a law degree but only has a matric.
I mean, can we get real about this. Everyone in the country knows that I am the most famous matriculant in the country. But this is the problem that we have in this House. We are so busy being petty towards one another that we don’t realise that the work of Parliament and the work of the people is failing. Now attack me on the fact that I am no intellectual absolutely, but you can never attack me on the fact that I 16 times wrote to Parliament and 16 times requested that Parliament deal with the Gupta issue before it was brought up, it is on the Zondo Commission records ... [Applause.] ...that I wrote to Parliament 16 times. I do my job as an MP and it doesn’t matter if I only have a matric. I work for the people of our country and that’s what we all need to learn. The hon member is not looking up because he is ashamed, he is looking down. But if you were half the MP that I was and if you had half the will that I have to make South Africa work, my gosh we could turn this country around. [Applause.]
Mr B A RADEBE: On a point of order, Chair.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon member.
Mr B A RADEBE: I am rising on Rule 84.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes!
Mr B A RADEBE: There is no half MP in this House. There isn’t.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes! There isn’t but that is not appoint of order. Go ahead, hon member. [Applause.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Hon Deputy Speaker, I want to say a special thank you to the Chair of Chairs, because I have many problems with Chair people and I can lift up the phone and phone directly to the Chair of Chairs and the problem is sorted out immediately. I want to thank you especially for taking matters up seriously. And Madam Speaker, it is such a joy to have someone that I can speak to on a one on one basis. You and the Deputy Chief Whip of the ANC and the Chief Whip for that matter, we solved problems collegiately and that’s what this Parliament is about.
We are not just here for the fight; we are here for the work. The heckling that goes on in this House is sometimes unimaginable and I am so glad that only this mic is audible to
the audience because if people had to hear what is said in this House we will be more of a joke than we already are.
There used to be a protocol officer. He used to come and give us protocol lessons. I don’t know where that protocol officer is anymore. But this Parliament need a serious lesson in protocol because we have lost the right to be called hon members and we need to urgently look at how we become hon members again. But this much I can tell you Madam Speaker, get the Ethics Committee going, get Powers and Privileges going again. Throw a few of these members out and you will see a dramatic change into the honourable Republic of South Africa’s Parliament. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr B A RADEBE: Hon Deputy Speaker, the executive authority of Parliament, the members of this august House, good afternoon. Deputy Speaker, what has happened there at the Pan African Parliament was really disgusting and it must be condemned that such despicable behaviour can be shown throughout the world.
How are the other regions in the world going to take us seriously if we do these things to each other? But, what is very critical here to our brothers and sisters in the Pan African Parliament is that, the Berlin Conference balkanised the African continent.
It cannot be that in 2021 we still pursue that agenda of balkanization of Africa. We request that we hold hands with each other so that we make our founding fathers and mothers of African unity proud. That, what they left behind is a legacy for the future generation. I remember very well when the former Presidents Obasanjo, Mbeki and President Wade of Senegal, came together with the concept of African renaissance so that we, as Africans, assert ourselves in the international stage, but what happened yesterday was despicable, it cannot be allowed.
I really appreciate that the Speaker has moved that this current Parliament will work closer with the Pan African Parliament so that there can be cordial relations so that we can share experiences such as those acts do not occur.
Deputy Speaker, the debate of Parliament’s Budget Vote provides the opportunity for all parties to honestly reflect on whether the institution - for which we have the responsibility - is living up to the demands of our Constitution. Since it is the Constitution which provides Parliament with its operational terms of reference and procedural mandate in Chapter 4, the two factors that have emerged from this debate across all political parties is that:
We need to strengthen oversight and accountability; secondly, to practically respond to the needs of the people. This is the rationale of the existence of our Parliament.
Parliament has the responsibility to contribute to the shaping of the national agenda. Over the past twelve months, we have done this on our oversight work. That is why the Speaker was able to table that even during the pandemic, we had 40 oversights visits; produced 480 reports; and did 60 public hearings. It shows that Parliament is really executing its mandate.
The current national agenda is defined as defeating the coronavirus pandemic and the gender-based violence pandemic; accelerating our economic recovery and implementing economic reforms to create sustainable jobs; driving inclusive growth; fighting corruption; and strengthening the state. In shaping the national agenda of the country, we continue the transformation agenda informed by the principle that; the people shall govern; and that Parliament provide the ... [Inaudible.] ... for it to happen.
The attainment of the political power by the ANC was and remains a means to fulfil the will of the people, and to
ensure a better life for all. The transformational agenda of the ANC entails building a legitimate state that serves the interest of the overwhelming majority which is based on the democratic Constitution; a culture of human rights which uses public resources to better the lives of the majority, especially the poor.
Despite the gains of the democratic state, the challenges still facing South Africa are immense, with poverty, inequality and unemployment still afflicting the vast sections of our people. That is why the Statistician-General revealed today that the unemployment rate is at 32,6%. I think that as Parliament, we must ensure that this figure is brought downwards.
The state’s ability to drive transformation in society and economy is fundamental. Sufficient capacity to drive this change is necessary and Parliament’s oversight work contributes to this regard. Our parliamentary work must therefore result in ongoing transformation and democratization of our institutions of government, so that we better meet the needs of our people.
The National Development Plan, NDP, was introduced in 2011 in this Parliament and it was agreed upon. This means that Parliament has to practically contribute to changing the quality of life for all people by 2030. In particular, demonstrate through its work how it will get government to increase its employment and deal with poverty and reduce inequality.
It is heartening to see that the current strategic plan of Parliament has also the goals of the NDP, as part of its indicators. Ours is to ensure that we are a responsive and accountable government to people’s needs. What is clear is that the reports we receive have alarming indicators that reflects institutions of governance, reflects the mission accountability.
We just have to look at the Auditor-General’s reports. We can see that somewhere there is failure in the issues of accountability. So, it is this Parliament that must become central so that the parties don’t point fingers, but provide solutions based on the mandate that the people have given, and not misplace conceptualisation of what the mandate is.
Deeper scrutiny by the committees will require more time allocated for oversight. Going forward, after the local government elections, we have to see how can programming begin to give both the committees and study groups more time to scrutinise for more qualitative research to be brought in the form of decisions we take.
We can only take decisions on the balance of evidence, not true rhetoric slogans vulgarity we often have to see through; but rather facts that have been tested and provide the evidence for ourselves. The pressure that Parliament faces today is for more information influence in decision making in our parliamentary work. Far more accountability and responsiveness to the people and faster service delivery.
That’s where the issue of constituency office is very
important.
In the current strategic framework of Parliament, Parliament is at the base, and as the feeder so that it can be able to check the performance of service delivery on the ground. What I can say that is critical, without the fear or favour, is that the ANC supports this budget. But, in supporting this budget, we have to deal with certain misnomers that were raised here.
First of all, the hon Mente complained that the acting Secretary to Parliament has been acting for four years and that is what led to the diminishing state of Parliament. I think it is wrong. Let’s just look at the Auditor-General’s report for the past four years, all those reports gave Parliament a clean audit. It shows that she is leading a team which is capable of delivering to the people of South Africa. [Applause.]
Now, what must happen here is that we must not do as hon Julius said; that we must praise them and also condemn them at the same time. We as the ANC say, we genuinely appreciate the work done that you are doing as the acting Secretary of this Parliament, and the sectaries of both the National Assembly and the NCOP. What is important is that ...
Afrikaans:
... ons moet saamtrek.
English:
If we do not saamtrek [rally together], South Africa will go under, and if South Africa goes under, everybody goes under. So, it is our duty and responsibility to ensure that the Bills that are there, it might be section 25, it might be
Expropriation Act, or it might be the gender-based legislation; what is critical is that we must stand as a country - as one -so that we ensure that the better life for the people is realised in our lifetime. I thank you, Chair. [Applause.]
Sesotho:
MOTLATSA SEPIKARA: Mme Modise, tloho o tlo bua le rona o kwale kopano ena. [Mahofi.] Mme Sepikara, jwale ke wena a nkang tsela e kgutshwane jwale? [Ditsheho.]
The SPEAKER: Deputy Speaker, ke a leboga [thank you].
Hon members, I want to thank all the members for their inputs, it was more lively than I had expected.
I want to start off with the difficult ones. Look at the administration, they’re not treating us equally, we’re queueing for our Bills; I think that we should address this.
Madam Speaker, you’ve gone to Zondo, you’re apologising! I’m apologising because the Speaker of the National Assembly responded to issues which affected the National Assembly not a particular party. I’m responding because from the day I swore
to be a member this House and I swore to be the Speaker of the National Assembly I took an oath to represent all constituencies that find themselves in this House. [Applause.] I did not swear to represent only the ANC in this House.
Secondly, nothing and nobody buzz any committee to do its work. One of the powers of the committees is to produce their own agenda and their own venues; it is to produce a plan. Now, if members of committees write to me and say ‘committee X has failed to produce a plan which we have adopted as this committee with outlining our programme for this year’, then I will an issue to take with such a chairperson.
If Members of Parliament, in this last five years and last 10 years since I was in the NCOP, want to work eight hours a day, which fortunately, Ntate [Mr] Mulder, you know we did not used to work eight hours a day, we worked because we thought we were here to represent from 1994, we worked through weekends, we did not ...
Now, if you have Members of Parliaments who think they can be thorough in their work but want only to work within certain and given hours; then you have a problem.
If you have Members of Parliament who think that because they want to ask a question it can only be asked in a scheduled meeting where they are sure they will get a stipend; then you have an issue about public representatives. And that is not the public representative who has the interest of their own constituency at heart.
I earlier on quoted Barack, ...
Setswana:
... Ntate Poresitente wa ko Amerika yo o latlhetseng seditse.
English:
That gap between the magnitude of our challenges and the smallness of our politics.
Until we begin to say we are different in our emphasis on what is best for this country, but we are united because we are forced to live together and to build together; we will not, as this Parliament, gel and we do need to do that, hon members.
We need to come together and at some point ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Madam Speaker, someone is misbehaving on the virtual platform [Laughter.] Can you please switch that member off?
The SPEAKER: Hon Deputy Speaker, you are presiding. This is what I have just told people at the Pan African Parliament, PAP, the presiding officers, then I said: I take no prisoners because when you’re on that chair you have all the power to run the meeting. When you’re on that chair the hybrid system, whoever is monitoring for you, can tell which mic is getting out of order and that mic, you can give [Laughter.] the command to get it cut, simple as that; so that we begin to respect the House.
Hon Mazzone says let us bring back the protocol office. Mme [Ms] Tyawa, I hope you’re listening. Because one of the things that is a problem that also touches how we respond in the House and how we behave is precisely because there is no protocol. Protocol has to do with respect, has to do recognition and has to do with how I see myself and therefore, want to see you reflected in me and me in you. So, there is an integration of a people coming together and respecting systems and processes. So, yes, let us reset that up and let us train members again to respect themselves. [Applause.]
It has never been the African way and has nothing to do with ageism ... before the young members tell me that I’m being ageist. It has to do with recognising that you are because I am, that I am going to respond because you said something and I expect you to respond, but if you don’t respond to what I’m saying and respond to what you think I should be saying, there is a problem also; and even if you don’t agree with what you say, hon members, we still owe each other respect but we owe each other the respect because we have been borrowed the space and time to come and serve here.
So, that service for me says if I was a leader of the party I would take a punch, hon members, that members are unable to draft, I would take the punch that members are unable to ask the required questions, I would take the punch that members ask sweetheart questions. I’m the leader of any party, I am the Speaker.
Any member who agrees to be on a ballot that brings them here should be able to ask a question in any of the 11 or 12 official languages of this country.
And I think that we must break the myth. Members on the ANC benches have no excuse not asking the hard-hitting questions;
members in the opposition have no excuse of not asking the questions too.
So, let us agree that when questions come to us we don’t edit questions out, when questions are put there it is because those are the questions members. We may have a discussion with a member on the understanding, on the English sometimes, language and culture here and there, but we have never changed any Member of Parliament’s question, so, members are fee to put the questions to the executive.
Members say to us that, yes, we get a pinch of the budget of the country, we don’t expect to be given half the country’s budget. The problem is not with the Fifth and the Sixth Parliament, the problem is that when we came here in 1994 Parliament was under the knuckle of the executive and when the ANC-led majority walked in here it worked and walked into the same steps. And therefore, you have never, even though in your Constitution said you have the three arms of state, recognises this House as the part of the arm of the state and actually agreed to sit there.
When we go and talk about the budget of Parliament, interact with people who do not even understand what the legislative
sector works like. You interact with director-generals, deputy director-generals who think we’re just another department, and that is where the problem is.
I am on record and I’m hoping that Minister Mboweni is listening. At some point I said to him: Parliament actually holds the power to the pass. I said: At one point, I can tell you now, I will instruct that House not to pass the budget until you listen to us. [Applause.] Because that is the other power that Parliament has and Parliament has that power not because it is a single party or the backbencher is inferior to the frontbenchers, it holds the purse because it directly mass represent the people out there in the streets.
So, I hear all the other criticism but I think that we need to find each other, we need to go back to respecting committee work. I have a committee that comes to me and say: we can’t work on Friday; I say: why can’t you work on Friday? Work on Friday. Why can’t you work on Friday? Why did you take the responsibility if you are not willing to make a sacrifice on behalf of your constituencies?
Hon members, I take the criticism. I did not go to Zondo to make excuses [Applause.] I went and I did not go to Zondo
because I was accused of any wrongdoing. I went there because Zondo needed to clear certain things, to understand where Parliament was when certain things were happening, to understand why certain decisions were taken and not taken, to explain how parliament works. Therefore, there was no culpability or no pleading of guilty there, it was to try to make this commission understand it has the support of this House, this is how it works, these are its weaknesses, this is where we intend to go into the future.
And I am hoping that Speakers who will come after some of us will actually be able to push forth and to ensure that every little voice on the floor of this House is respected, every constituency out there and even those who aspired to have a rep [representative] and do not have a rep, we still listen to them because that is the only reason why we have this sectoral Parliaments, it is to give those who are not represented here a voice, here. Why we have public hearings? It is to give that voice to those who can’t have members here.
Members who are complaining about the Private Members’ Bill not ... why do want to get the administration of Parliament to draft? [Interjections.] I think a Private Member’s Bill is just that. A Private Member’s Bill must come to us in whatever
shape a member has, as long as it carries out the aspiration of some constituency out there.
You will remember there were years, Ntate [Mr] Swart, when this House was resisting having private members’ legislation? Then some of us went to Poland and we found that they were doing this thing very easily. A thousand members out there in the street find somebody, they draft, they find the sponsor in the House and the ... no mystery about it.
So, for me, we must not be ashamed to take raw Bills from members into; let the committee as a collective deal with it openly, freely and turn it into whatever. If it sees the light of day in a committee setting, good; but it cannot be given to some administrative staff members who might actually end up doing it not what you wanted it originally to be. So, it is better for us to come into the committee, put it there, have our own ...
Setswana:
... selo moo ...
English:
And Ntate Mulder is right, most of our work as public representatives is about finding the middle, is about talking, is about ... talking out there, you don’t win any constituency position by being antagonistic, by fighting, by refusing, because what we then do is harden the divisions in the country; we have a country that continues to divide itself and does not heal.
So, I would say that, yes, I’ve heard what members are saying
and those who support us, thank you very much.
I’ve heard everything, the constituency allowance, it is terrible, I know. The constituencies are not even the same, they’re not budgeted, they don’t even look the same, so, we need to be doing something about it.
I’ve taken noted and I think at the first committee meeting we would make sure we report back. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF JOINT STANDING COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE ON BUDGET VOTE NO 8: NATIONAL TREASURY (STATE SECURITY)
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HUMAN SETTLEMENTS, WATER AND SANITATION ON BUDGET VOTE 41, STRATEGIC PLAN AND ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLAN OF DEPARTMENT OF WATER AND SANITATION
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ENTERPRISES ON BUDGET VOTE 10: PUBLIC ENTERPRISES, AND ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLAN FOR 2021-22 OF DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES ON ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLANS 2021-22 OF DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT, NATIONAL PROSECUTING AUTHORITY, LEGAL AID SOUTH AFRICA, SPECIAL INVESTIGATING UNIT, PUBLIC PROTECTOR SOUTH AFRICA, SOUTH AFRICAN HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION AND INFORMATION REGULATOR; AND BUDGET VOTE 25: JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT FOR 2021 MTEF
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT ON BUDGET VOTE 19, ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLANS OF DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT AND ENTITIES FOR 2021-22
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND COOPERATION ON BUDGET VOTE 6: INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON BASIC EDUCATION ON BUDGET VOTE 16: BASIC EDUCATION
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT ON BUDGET VOTE 36: SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT FOR FINANCIAL YEAR 2021-22
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HOME AFFAIRS ON VOTE 5, ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLANS AND BUDGET OF DEPARTMENT OF HOME AFFAIRS, ELECTORAL COMMISSION AND GOVERNMENT PRINTING WORKS
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HUMAN SETTLEMENTS ON BUDGET VOTE 33: HUMAN SETTLEMENTS, AND ON REVISED STRATEGIC PLAN FOR MEDIUM TERM EXPENDITURE FRAMEWORK PERIOD AND ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLAN 2021-22
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS ON BUDGET VOTE 30: COMMUNICATIONS AND DIGITAL TECHNOLOGIES
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS ON BUDGET VOTE 4: GOVERNMENT COMMUNICATION AND INFORMATION SYSTEM
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES ON ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLAN (BUDGET VOTE 20) OF DEPARTMENT OF WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES FOR FINANCIAL YEAR 2021-22
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON MINERAL RESOURCES AND ENERGY ON ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLAN AND BUDGET VOTE NO 34 FOR 2021-22 FINANCIAL YEAR OF DEPARTMENT OF MINERAL RESOURCES AND ENERGY AND ENTITIES
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY ON BUDGET VOTE 35: SCIENCE AND INNOVATION
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES ON ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLAN FOR 2021-22
OF OFFICE OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE AND VOTE 27: OFFICE OF THE CHIEF JUSTICE
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES ON BUDGET VOTE 22: CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TRADE AND INDUSTRY ON BUDGET VOTE 39: TRADE, INDUSTRY AND COMPETITION
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON POLICE ON 2021-22 BUDGET, ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLAN OF CIVILIAN SECRETARIAT FOR POLICE SERVICES VOTE 21
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON POLICE ON 2021-22 BUDGET, ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLAN AND 2020-2025 STRATEGIC PLAN OF PRIVATE SECURITY INDUSTRY REGULATORY AUTHORITY
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON POLICE ON 2021-22 BUDGET VOTE 24, PERFORMANCE PLAN AND 2020-2025 STRATEGIC PLAN OF INDEPENDENT POLICE INVESTIGATIVE DIRECTORATE
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON POLICE ON 2021-22 BUDGET VOTE 28, ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLAN OF DEPARTMENT OF POLICE
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON EMPLOYMENT AND LABOUR ON BUDGET VOTE 31: EMPLOYMENT AND LABOUR, STRATEGIC PLANS OF DEPARTMENT AND ENTITIES 2020-21 – 2024-25 AND ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLANS OF DEPARTMENT AND ENTITIES 2020-21
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS ON BUDGET VOTE 23 DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS ON BUDGET VOTE 26 DEPARTMENT OF MILITARY VETERANS
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC WORKS AND INFRASTRUCTURE ON BUDGET VOTE 13: PUBLIC WORKS AND INFRASTRUCTURE
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION ON STRATEGIC PLAN 2019-20—2023-24, ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLANS 2021-22 AND BUDGET VOTE 11 OF DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION ON STRATEGIC PLAN 2019-20 — 2023- 24, ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLANS 2021-22 AND BUDGET VOTE 7 OF NATIONAL SCHOOL OF GOVERNMENT
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION ON STRATEGIC PLAN 2019-20 — 2023- 24, ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLANS 2020-21 AND BUDGET VOTE 9 OF DEPARTMENT OF PLANNING, MONITORING AND EVALUATION
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION ON STRATEGIC PLAN 2019-20 — 2023- 24, ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLANS 2020/21 AND BUDGET VOTE 12 OF PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION ON STRATEGIC PLAN 2019/20 — 2023- 24, ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLAN 2021-22 AND BUDGET VOTE 14 OF STATISTICS SOUTH AFRICA
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON FINANCE ON BUDGET VOTE 8: NATIONAL TREASURY
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT ON BUDGET VOTE 40: TRANSPORT AND STRATEGIC PLANS AND ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLANS 2021-22 OF DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT AND ENTITIES
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON COOPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS ON 2021-22 ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLANS AND BUDGETS OF DEPARTMENTS OF COOPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS AND ENTITIES
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, LAND REFORM AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT ON 2021-22 ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLANS AND BUDGET OF DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE, LAND REFORM AND RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND ENTITIES
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY ON BUDGET VOTE 17: HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON SPORT, ARTS AND CULTURE ON BUDGET VOTE 37: DEPARTMENT OF SPORT, ARTS AND CULTURE
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TOURISM ON BUDGET VOTE 38: TOURISM
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TOURISM ON BUDGET VOTE 38: TOURISM
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES ON STRATEGIC PLAN 2019-20 — 2023-24, ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLANS 2020-21 AND BUDGET VOTE 32 OF DEPARTMENT OF FORESTRY, FISHERIES AND ENVIRONMENT
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HEALTH ON BUDGET VOTE 18: HEALTH, ANNUAL PERFORMANCE PLANS OF DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND ENTITIES
There was no debate.
The Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Reports be adopted.
Ms N V MENTE: Yes, the EFF objects.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: To what Ma’am? [Interjections.] Order!
Order, hon members.
Ms N V MENTE: To the orders as mentioned and all the budget cuts.
Motion agreed to. [TAKE IN FROM MINUTES]
CONSIDERATION OF THE PRESIDENT’S RESERVATIONS ON THE CONSTITUTIONALITY OF COPYRIGHT AMENDMENT BILL [B 13B - 2017] (NATIONAL ASSEMBLY – SEC 75) AS SUBMITTED TO HIM AND REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TRADE AND INDUSTRY THEREON
Mr D M NKOSI: Hon Deputy Speaker, we have two Bills, the first one would be the Performance Protection Amendment Bill, the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry, having considered the Performance Protection Amendment Bill. As well as the President’s reservation on the constitutionality thereof conferred with the Select Committee on Trade and Industry, Economic Development, Small Business Development, Tourism, Employment, and Labour, thereof, the reports the following.
In the letter dated 16 June 2020, the President of the Republic of South Africa informed the National Assembly that he had reservations about the constitutionality of the Performers’ Protection Amendment Bill and that consequently, he was referring the Bill back to the National Assembly for
reconsideration in terms of section 79(1) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa of 1996. The President’s reservations related to the following, that; the Bill had been incorrectly tagged as a section 75 Bill. He was off the view that each should be a section 76 Bill because of provisions that substantially affected the area of cultural matters as
... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Nkosi! Hon Nkosi! Hon Nkosi, just hold on for just a moment.
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: My apologies for this. You read Order 42 and did not read it with
43 but the chairperson of the portfolio committee is now on another Order. So he is reading something else from another Order because he is reading two reports simultaneously. If there can be clarity on that then, Deputy Speaker
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yeah, no, the chair is introducing the 43rd Order. What he does, in addition, is another story. [Interjections.] We are dealing with the 43rd that he is introducing that requires it.
Mr M HLENGWA: But, Deputy Speaker, you read 42.
IsiZulu:
USEKELA SOMLOMO: Lalela baba, masiqede. Sizokutshela ukuthi sivotela ini uma sesifike lapho. Yena, into ayishoyo ihlangene nale nto esimcelile ukuthi akhulume ngayo.
Mnu M HLENGWA: Ngizocela Sekela Somlomo kodwa i-Hansard ukuthi uyibuke, le-Order oyifundile akuyona le esikuyona.
USEKELA SOMLOMO: Lalela-ke. Lokho kuzolandela yilokhu okuzokhulunywa la okuzothiwa kuvoteleni. Ukuthi kuthiweni ekuqaleni yenye indaba leyo, sizoyilungisa ngokuthi sizovumelana ngani sisonke la eNdlini. Qhubeka, baba uNkosi, usheshe uyivale ... oho, usenemizuzu emithathu.
English:
Mr D M NKOSI: Yes, thank you, Deputy Speaker; the Bill might not comply with international treaty obligations specifically in relation to the World Intellectual Property Organization, WIPO Performance and Phonograms Treaty.
The committee, having considered the President’s reservations, reports as follows; The Committee, after due consideration and having decided to rather err on the side of caution, agrees with the President’s reservation that the Bill should have
been tagged as a section 76 Bill and resolved that it would request the House to submit the Bill to the Joint Tagging Mechanism for reconsideration of its classification and to specifically consider whether the Bill should be dealt with in terms of section 76 of the Constitution; With respect to the President’s reservations that the Bill may not comply with international treaty obligations specifically in relation to the WIPO Performance and Phonograms Treaty, and the committee is of the view that the reservation related to international treaties can be dealt with in conjunction with a call for public comment. In considering such inputs, the Committee may then appraise itself of whether the Bill does indeed comply with treaties or not and, if necessary, effect amendments to the Bill.
After deliberations, the committee recommends; That the National Assembly should consider rescinding its decision on 5 December 2018 to pass the Performers’ Protection Amendment Bill; referring the Bill referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism to consider whether it agrees with the President’s reservation that the Bill should have been tagged as a section
76 Bill; referring the Bill to the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry to correct the procedural and substantive concerns in the manner proposed by it, and for the report; and
agreeing to the committee in addressing the reservations it supports and how it intends correcting it, incorporating in its work the proceedings and all the previous work of the committee up to the Second Reading of the Bill.
The report is to be considered. Thank you very much. I am sure on the other part of the Bill the one we will read, Deputy Speaker, in time. Thank you.
There was no debate
IsiZulu:
USEKELA SOMLOMO: Uyabona lento oyichazayo yilento ebibuzwa umhlonishwa uHlengwa.
English:
This is how we are going to deal with this matter.
IsiZulu:
Sotswebhu omkhulu, sicela usho ukuthi senzeni ngale nto ebekwe kuthina usihlalo wekomidi lokhu asanda kwethula kuthina.
The Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted.
The Assembly accordingly rescinds its previous decision to pass the Copyright Amendment Bill in terms of Joint Rule 203(3)(c) and the Bill be referred back to the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry for further consideration and report.
Mr N SINGH: Hon Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: It is Singh here, I am on the virtual platform. Hon Deputy Speaker, I didn’t want to disturb the hon Nkosi earlier on but what hon Hlengwa said was correct. I think hon Nkosi proceeded to read the motivation on Order 43.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Singh, I said we will do with this matter in the following manner, that we will have you declare if you have a declaration, when we get the 43rd here, he has already read that. He's not going to read it. Can you see ... [Interjections.]
Mr N SINGH: So are you doing 42 now? I don’t want all our members to be confused as well. So are we doing 42? And we will declare on 42 after he motivates. Thank you.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no. If you have any intention to declare, declare now, otherwise, you are ... [Inaudible.] If there are any declarations, hon members, you will indicate. Now indicate that you want to declare on 42.
Mr N SINGH: Yes. Deputy Speaker, the IFP will want to declare, but we want to hear the motivation from the chairperson first.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hon Singh. Hon members, you do not need any motivation, he told you, he said ... [Interjections.] Just hold on. [Interjections.]
IsiZulu:
Ha-e! Ha-eh! Ungangixubhi ngisadla. Lungu elihloniphekile.
English:
Wait a minute. The hon member said it is 42 and 43, right at the beginning. This is what he said. So in what he said, he made the reference to 42 and 43. Why do you not want to accept creativity? Like really? [interjections.] No, I'm not giving you a chance hon Nkosi, you've done your job, it's done. It is the chance of the Members of Parliament to respond to you now. Hold your horses. Let me proceed, go ahead. Take your podium there. Yeah.
Mr D M NKOSI: It is a correction, Deputy Speaker.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: There is no ... hon member ...
IsiZulu:
... awume kancane bandla. Sizokucela ekuhambeni kwesikhathi mhlawumbe.
Declarations of vote:
Mr D W MACPHERSON: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Hon members, today is indeed a red letter day for the Trade, Industry and Competition Portfolio Committee. The story behind this Bill dates back to 2017, when this Bill was first tabled in the 5th Parliament and involves a cost of B-grade Members of Parliament, MPs, who thought they were onto a Hollywood script. From the moment this Bill was introduced, it was clear that ANC had become spellbound by the catchphrases of big international technology companies and what they said was the gospel truth.
The committee decided it was best to form a subcommittee to deal with this Bill. Hon members, copyright policy and legislation is a deeply complexed and nuanced matter. A one- size fits all approach, simply doesn’t work, except that’s
exactly what the ANC wanted to do. They were adamant that they could import a legal construct from the United States into South African law under the term “fair use” of which there is no legal background for in this country, never mind, the ANC MPs said, we would simply make it up as we go along, was the ANC study group instructions. The committee attempted to dress up a few interactions as public participation, as well as refusing to have the Bill tagged as a section 76 Bill, which would have taken the Bill into provinces for comments and public hearings, but it was not to be.
On the issue of retrospectivity, the ANC thought that it was wise to make it unending, which would lead to arbitrary deprivation, which is categorically not allowed for in South African law. Not that it has ever stopped you from doing so, but the worst was saved for the ANC, wanting to give substantial discretionary powers to the Minister, which would constitute an impermissible delegation of legislative authority. These sections would have allowed the Minister to make key decisions regarding the deprivation of property from those to whom it was assigned to in the past. It also has the effect that there is no participation process to which legislation is generally subjected to. When the Bill came to Parliament just before the elections, as it was an election
Bill, of course, the DA voted against it and highlighted all of these problems and more, Madam Speaker.
We warned the committee and Parliament that it was skating on thin constitutional ice if it passed the Bill. And, guess what it did, it passed it anyway. This was despite objections from some of our biggest trading partners about this Bill. The ANC were happy to take us to the economic brink, including putting at risk our duty free access into the US under the generalised system of preferences. For this, the US is continuing today to hold public hearings on eligibility because of this Bill, which will have dire economic consequences with R34 billion rent if we are excluded because of it. These and many more issues like our compliance with international treaties within highlighted in many petitions to the President of which the DA submitted too from the hon Cachalia and one from myself.
In June 2020, President Ramaphosa agreed with us that the Bill was indeed deficient and sent it back to Parliament, where it set for one year in our committee, Madam Speaker. Do you know why it set there for so long? Because the ANC study group were in an intense game of rock, paper and scissors as to what to do with it. Do they give in to the President or do they give him the middle finger? Or do they listen to the DA or
completely ignore his constitutional provisions? Well, up to the week before the committee discussed this report, they were still vehemently opposed to acceding to the President and the DA’s objections. And then the strangest thing happened. They did the most spectacular parliamentary backflip I’ve ever seen and agreed to everything that the President and the DA said.
Hopefully this is a painful and embarrassing lesson for the ANC and the MPs of that committee that they should be taking the views of the opposition more regularly and stick to the rules and the law indefinitely. It will certainly serve them well in the future, I said it then and I will say it again. I told you so. The DA supports this Report.
Mr B S MADLINGOZI: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. This Bill has to be tagged correctly as section 76 Bill under Schedule 4 to the Constitution. The Bill should be clear on how the copyrights should be given to a producer or someone elected by the court should the owner of the work is not found. The SA Musician Rights Organisation, SAMRO, has been accused of allocating the owner’s works under undocumented work category simply because they are unwilling to search for the owner of the works.
Often times this happens when the owner is from a traditional music category. The EFF advocate for one collective organisation. The fact that this Bill allow us to have numerous collective societies is problematic. This opens a corruption channel, where some society creates fake members and duplicate members from other societies to collect royalties. The fake members prevent the rightful owners of the works to bookings, music and art from making money. Their works will be exploited under the auspices of educational purposes or legal evidence. No production will be done the owners of the works would not gain directly from the production. The issue that involves persons that are visually impaired should be solved. The copyright treaty should be finalised and the Bill be sent back to the public for final interrogation. Thank you.
IsiZulu:
Mnu M HLENGWA: Ngiyathokoza, Sekela Somlomo ...
English:
... and hon members. On 26 April we celebrated World Intellectual Property Day. This year’s theme focused on how small and medium enterprises could use intellectual property to expand their businesses. These enterprises not only account
for 90% of all companies worldwide, but more importantly have the potential to revive our economy. As we are considering the committee’s report today concerning the President’s reservations regarding the constitutionality of the Copyright Amendment Bill, the IFP wishes to again emphasize the critical need to make sure our intellectual property law, and specifically our corporate law, provides comprehensive protection.
Above all, we cannot forget how important knowledge on insert intellectual property could be for the growth of small enterprises and for reviving our economy. I think the job numbers of today should be even a greater motivation to do the right things, considering the over 7,000,000 young people who are unemployed. On considering the committees’ report, the IFP agrees with this recommendations relating to the President’s reservations. Although the committee has been advised by Parliament’s legal services that according to their consideration, there was adequate public participation on the quote unquote “fair use provisions” of the Bill in specific.
The committee was further advised that Parliament has the discretion to request further submissions. The IFP supports the portfolio committee’s view that it should call for further
public comment. As a representative democracy, the South African public has the constitutional right to be granted meaningful opportunity to raise their views on these amendments. It is therefore important, considering the nature of these amendments, that meaningful public participation just giving effect. In conclusion, the IFP wishes to emphasise the urgent need to progress with the committee’s recommendations. The slow pace of attending to amendments to the Copyright Act of 1978 has been a critical obstacle and we urgently need to align copyright with the digital area. As was already evidenced in the Copyright Review Commission’s Report of 2011, this delay cannot be accepted. We should not be fiddling whilst Rome is burning. The IFP supports this Report. I thank you.
Mr F J MULDER: Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker. The mere fact that the Copyright Amendment Bill has been referred back to Parliament after being incorrectly tagged as section 75 Bill not a section 76 Bill sends a clear message to the governing party that a lack of consultation, considering public participation inputs or logic led to fruitless expenditure and a waste of time at the expense of those who the Bill was intended to protect. Retrospective provisions contained in section 75 Amendment Bill maybe constitute all the deprivation
of property and the provisions applied retrospectively resulting in copyright owners being entitled to ... [Inaudible.] ... of the fruits of the property, as was previous the case.
The impact of these provisions reaches far beyond the authors seek to protect. They deprive copyright owners of property without sufficient reason and will therefore result in substantial and arbitrary deprivation of property. The failure of the provisions as amended is not being put out for further public comment. These amendments have not been put out for public comment before the final version of it has been published. The challenges made to this particular section where material to the scheme and so, the failure to consult in phase of such reality of the amendments could render the provisions constitutionally invalid. The Bill confirmed substantial discretional powers to the Minister in subsections that we permit the Minister to make key decisions regarding the deprivation of copyrighted from those to whom it was assigning. The Bill may not even comply with international treaty obligations. Deputy Speaker, the Freedom Front Plus, therefore, agrees with the President’s reservation that the Bill should have been tagged as section 76 Bill and should have ... [Inaudible.] ...section 76 of the Constitution.
Parliament should, therefore, rescind the decision of 05 December 2018 to pass the Bill. The Bill should be referred back to the Portfolio Committee on Trade, Industry and Competition to rectify. The Freedom Front Plus support the Report before the House. Thank you, Deputy Speaker.
Declarations of vote:
Mr W M THRING: Deputy Speaker, as we consider this report on the Copyright Amendment Bill, which sought to amend the Copyright Act of 1978, So as to define certain words and expressions to allow for further limitations and exceptions regarding the reproduction of copyright works and to provide for the sharing of copyright royalties in copyright works among other things.
The ACDP is conscious of the intention of the Bill, which sought to address and resolve issues from the findings of the Copyright Review Commission that concluded the report way back in 2011. The President of the Republic of South Africa exercised his right to question the constitutionality of the Copyright Amendment Bill.
The reservations of the President related to the tagging as a section 76 Bill rather than 75, trading of copyright, the
effects of the payment of royalties on cultural matters, the arbitrary deprivation of property, further public comment due to the fair use provisions, possible incumbents or delegation of legislative authority by conferring substantial discretionary powers to the Minister, the copyright exceptions which might constitute reasonable grounds for constitutional challenges. The committee deliberated long and hard on the reservations of the President and after much consultation decided to err on the side of caution with regards to the tagging of the Bill, the providing of further public comment and the provision of a prospect of operation only. The ACDP supports the recommendations of the community.
And hence we accept this report. I thank you.
Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Al-Jama-ah supports the report. Thank you, Deputy Speaker.
Ms N E MOTAUNG: Deputy Speaker, as we begin youth month we remember the youth of 1976 who fought against the system of apartheid that exploited Africans, in particular, and blacks in general. The formation of the ANC Youth League in 1944 by the youth generation of Nelson Mandela, Walter Sisulu, Mxolisi Majombozi, Oliver Tambo, Duma Nokwe and many others in their
youth of the time signified the consolidation of the organised youth who had through struggle propelled the country from an oppressive and exploitative system to a just democratic system. These are the gains we should protect.
The youth of our country, like the youth of 1944, should advance their mission of economic freedom in our lifetime. The super-exploitation by the colonial system has entrenched practices that subject all the vulnerable to exploitation by the industries and the established businesses. Many artists in the creative arts industry of South Africa, due to a lack of opportunities and platforms to expose their work, end up signing contracts with established producers in order to commercialise their work. The artists rely on the income from their commissioned work. And many artists produce timeless works which have copyrights. Authors of commissioned work have raised concern that these works are being commercialised, exploited in that they were not paid for a full range of uses and they are being impeded from using these works for other purposes.
The vulnerability of creatives is mainly exploited through challenges related to contracts, payments of royalties, access to works for education, management and controlling societies,
commercial exploitation of authors, lack of protection of economic rights of performers and the legislative limitations in terms of technological advances.
Technological developments have made it easier for users to share information that is also copyrighted. The piracy industry is a significant illegal industry that profits through the reproduction of protected works. The internet and the different technological software have allowed people to duplicate original works. This impact the artists as they do not make any income from their work. Why do those who are involved in piracy benefit from their creative work?
The piracy industry is a large, illegal industry that can not only cost the artists but also the economy. It also discourages creativity amongst the artists and should be combated by law enforcement agencies. There Copyright Amendment Bill seeks to address this anomaly. Artists and authors are usually exploited due to a lack of substantive contractual relationships that do not protect the reuse of the work produced for commercial use.
The Copyright Amendment Bill seeks to address these weaknesses through enabling authors of literacy, musical and visual
artistic works after they have signed the copyright too by contract continued to receive a share of the royalties. And their Bill sets areas of minimum contractual terms that should be included in this regard that the Minister should prescribe. This can create numerous practical challenges.
The creative sector is an important economic sector. And the Bill will ensure economic freedom for the artist. While the Bill provides for the introspective application of the sharing of the royalties, the ANC acknowledges to removing this, in line with the President's reservations. However, this remains a critical aspect to address the exploitation of the past and a possible mechanism to compensate the artists or performers who were exploited in the past should be considered by the executive. The value of the work produced by the artists and the authors can increase over time as the artists gain popularity. Many artists experience such a long while after launching their work but they are bound by the initial unfavourable agreements and their work is later resold with no royalties paid to them. The ANC support the report on the Copyright Amendment Bill. I thank you, Deputy Speaker. [Applause.]
Motion agreed to.
Report adopted, the Assembly accordingly rescinded its previous decision to pass the Copyright Amendment Bill [B 13B
- 2017] in terms of Joint Rule 203(3)(c) and the Bill referred back to the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry for further consideration and report.
CONSIDERATION OF THE PRESIDENT’S RESERVATIONS ON THE CONSTITUTIONALITY OF PERFORMERS’ PROTECTION AMENDMENT BILL [B 24B - 2016] (NATIONAL ASSEMBLY – SEC 75) AS SUBMITTED TO HIM AND REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TRADE AND INDUSTRY THEREON
There was no debate.
The Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted, the Assembly accordingly rescinds its previous decision to pass the Performers’ Protection Amendment Bill [B 24B - 2016] in terms of Joint Rule 203(3)(c) and the Bill be referred back to the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry for further consideration and report.
Declarations of vote:
Mr D W MACPHERSON: Well, it's wonderful to win one for a change. And it's great that you have rescinded the ill-fated
decision that you took in 2018 that we all warned you about. And I hope colleagues and hon members that this is a good lesson for all ANC members that you are not the only voice of reason in your committee, that there are other voices in other opposition members and that they also have a role to play and inputs to make.
And I hope that that's something, Madam Speaker, that you can instil in the ANC benches because I think that this is a really good learning lesson for all of them and they don't learn often but maybe this is an opportunity for them to do so because on this Performers’ Bill, again, what we had identified is that have been incorrectly tagged and that there was extreme executive overreach. And in fact, it's a problem that we see in a lot of Bills that come from the executive is that the executive wants to have unfettered power into making decisions that are devoid of parliamentary oversight. And so we're glad that the President has finally recognised that it is a step too far. And again, in this Bill that, that will be rescinded. And hopefully, in the future, we're not going to have to get into this embarrassing situation, not us, but for the ANC, that they will not have to rescind their Bills that they pass, that they bring to this House. So, again, hon
colleagues and members of this House, the DA supports the report. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr B S MADLINGOZI: Deputy Speaker, we also believe this Bill should be tagged correctly as a section 76 Bill under schedule
4 of the Constitution. The Bill should be clear how it would protect the indigenous cultural knowledge and how the performers’ rights would be protected since South Africa is not a member of the World Intellectual Property Organization, WIPO, Performances and Phonograms Treaty, it puts our creatives, composers, and performers’ rights in jeopardy particularly in the digital world especially if the works are recorded.
That being said, Deputy Speaker, the EFF supports the Bill provided that the Bill is sent back to the public for further participation. A lot of workshopping needs to be done on the legislative arm to make sure that the Bill is passed.
We need to do proper oversight to make sure that it is implemented correctly. Thank you.
Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Deputy Speaker, today we meet to consider the reservations expressed by the President on the
constitutionality of the Performers’ ... [Interjections.] May
I start again?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes.
Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: ... Protection Amendment Bill 24B of 2016, section 75. And, as the IFP, we are glad to be able to take a stance to support an industry often characterised by unfair working conditions, a lack of recognition and other unjust contractual obligations that leave our artists worst off. The Bill is a turnaround in the history of the creative industry in South Africa. And it is our hope that this is not the end but the beginning of our continuous efforts to provide a fair working environment for this sector.
We’ll support the views and concerns given by the President requesting the constitutionality of the Performers’.
Protection Amendment Bill as presented to him on the 22 June 2020. And on 19 May 2021. We argue that these concerns also identify with those from the IFP on this matter and need to be accommodated to promote fairness and due recognition in the creative industry. We, therefore, that the Bill should be classified as a section 76 Bill of the South African Constitution since it affects provinces and is not an ordinary
Bill. Further reservations on the procedural and substantive concerns experienced by the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry as well as the incorporation procedure and the previous work of the committee, should be considered when passing this Bill.
We are in support of upholding the economic rights and dignity of this industry and the promotion of fair work. Further amendments of the Bill in future should also continue to fight for equal pay for both men and women and safeguard artists against sexual harassment and exploitation. We recommend the passing of this Bill with the noted adjustments. Thank you.
Afrikaans:
Mnr F J MULDER: Agb Adjunkspeaker, die besluit van die Parlement om die Wysigingswetontwerp op Kunstenaarbekerming goed te keur was ondeurdag en ongelukkig. Die Westsontwerp wat verkeerdelik geklassifiseer is as ’n artikel-75 Wet en in werklikheid ’n artikel-76 Wet behoort te wees, is ’n wekroep aan die regerende ANC en kom op wanbesteding en ’n vermorsing van tyd neer, tot die nadeel van die kunstenaars, wat uiteindelik deur hierdie Wet beskerm behoort te word.
Hierdie wysigingswetsontwerp wat veronderstel is om optredes van kunstenaars te reël sluit die werk inheems en ... [Onhoorbaar.] ... kunstenaars wie se werk as deel van hul onderskeie gemeenskap se erfenis beskou word.
Selfs soos die wat ons vandag op die luidspreker hoor is dit verder duidelik is dat openbare deelname ... [Onhoorbaar.] ... en konsultasie met rolspelers doodgewoon nie plaasgevind het nie of onvoldoende was.
Die VF Plus steun gevolglik hierdie terugverwysing na die Parlement en die komiteeverslag voor die Parlement. Dankie.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Thring, I hope you’re muted except that it's your turn now to speak. You should have muted all along. Members, please check your microphones. If you are not about to speak, switch it off now, please. That helps the House. Go ahead, hon ... or let me say, ACDP.
Mr W M THRING: Deputy Speaker, the ACDP is aware that the Performers’ Protection Amendment Bill sought to amend the Performance Protection Act of 1967 so as to insert, delete, or substitute certain definitions such as to provide performers, economic rights, to extend moral rights to performers, the
audiovisual fixations, to provide for the protection of rights for the producers.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Thring, just hold on. Hon members, we've just asked you to switch off. Can you switch ... get rid of them, please, if you can. Please get rid of them, please.
Just get rid of them. [Interjections.] Just pull her off. This is crazy stuff. I mean, absolutely, finish your, your say, hon Thring.
Mr W M THRING: Deputy Speaker, I was kicked out too when you asked for everybody to be get rid of.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is collateral, don’t worry, you are
back now. Go ahead, sir.
Mr M W THRING: Okay! So hon Deputy Speaker, similar to the reservations that the President had with the Copyright Amendment Bill, the reservations of the Performers’ Protection Bill relates to the incorrect tagging of the Bill as a section
75 Bill rather than the section 76 Bill, the possibility that the Bill may not comply with international treaty obligations in relations to the WIPO Performances and Phonograms Treaty.
Again, the committee decided to err, on the side of caution with respect to the tagging of the Bill and to deal with the possible noncompliance with international treaty obligations through the public comment process. The ACDP supports the committee's recommendations. And hence, we also support this report. I thank you, Deputy Speaker.
Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Al Jama-ah, Deputy Speaker, supports the report. Thank you very much.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much, great, thanks for your brevity. Classic! Absolutely good.
Declarations of vote:
Prince Z BURNS-NCAMASHE: Deputy Speaker, we take this opportunity as the ANC to communicate our support for the report on the Performers’ Protection Amendment Bill. The Performers’ Protection Amendment Bill seeks to provide protection for performers, especially actors, as well as address the challenges faced by the performing arts sector in South Africa. It also updates the regulatory framework by addressing technological advances since the last amendment, in particular, the rise of the digital environment and live streaming of music and audiovisual works.
In this regard, the Bill provides, among other things, the transfer of rights where performers concern to fixation of a performance. The protection of rights of producers of sound recordings, the broadening of restrictions on the use of performances, the extension of the application of restrictions on the use of performances to audiovisual fixations. The royalties or equitable remuneration to be payable when a performance is sold or rented out.
The extension of exceptions from prohibitions to audiovisual fixation and sound recordings, and include exceptions provided for in the Copyright Act of 1978’ The prescription of compulsory and standard of contractual terms by the Minister as well as the guidelines for a performer to grant consent under this Act; the prohibited conduct and exceptions in respect of technological protection measures and copyright management information respectively; and advancing offences and penalties; to substitute certain expressions to give; to provide for transitional provisions.
Among the key issues and challenges that the amendment Bill seeks to address are: on payment of artist for commercial use and reuse of work, the ANC holds a view that under the current Act, big companies often use music in their commercials from
which they increase their sales, but the performers are not compensated for the use of their music. In addition, broadcasters continue to rebroadcast works that are protected by Copyright Act or related rights. However, performers are often not compensated while the broadcaster continues to receive income from rebroadcast. The Performers’ Protection Amendment Bill therefore provides for producers a sound recording who are also the owner of copyright in that sound recording. The exclusive right of authorising use of the recording thus ensuring the payment of royalties for the use in advertisements and rebroadcasting, among others. It also provides for the protection of performers moral rights and economic rights such as the right to authorise the recording, broadcasting, reproduction, distribution and rental of their performances.
Furthermore, this Bill makes provision for equitable or fair remuneration or the exploitation of performers. Indeed, on provision of minimum contractual terms, one of the key reasons for abuse in this sector is the structure of contracts which are often not in favour of a performer, be it musician, actor, dancer, etc. There is no union or related structure representing artists, therefore, they have limited power to
negotiate their contracts. Consequently, they get less than what they deserve from the production of their work.
Furthermore, performers continue to sign their economic rights away because they are no guidelines for a standard contract or minimal contractual terms. This results in perpetual exploitation. The amendment Bill provides for performers to share in royalties received by the copyright owner of audiovisual works and of sound recordings. It sets areas for minimum contractual terms that should be indeed in this regard which the Minister must prescribe.
On continued exploitation of works such as music on a digital platform, furthermore performers are not legally required to paid for use of their performance on digital platforms such as live streaming as provisions in the Act are outdated. The Bill provides for protection of digital works by making provision for prohibited conduct in respect of technological protection measures. As the ANC, we fully comprehend and support the plight of the performing industry and therefore support this report. I am sure, Deputy Speaker that my colleague, the hon Macpherson will understand that when you deal with issues based on certain post-matric approaches – you know where you deal with postmodernity and dialectical approach you will then
appreciate that protectionism and positivists limited kind of approaches are not helpful. And you must equally appreciate that there are tests in terms of our jurisprudence. Part of those would be your substantial measure. Thank you very much. [Applause.] [[Interjections.]
Mr D W MACPHERSON: Deputy Speaker, sorry. I want the hon member to take a question and explain what he just said, because he didn’t even know what he was saying.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you don’t do that. You don’t speak because you want to speak, you know – just like that. No, no, no! it’s you who is doing that. You are continuing. You are heckling; now you are engaging. Just keep quiet please. Order! Order! You don’t listen, generally this is becoming your characteristics – your feature, in the House. I don’t like it – it’s not good, please man.
Voting.
Agreed to.
Report adopted, the Assembly accordingly rescinded its
previous decision to pass the Performers’ Protection Amendment
Bill [B 24B - 2016] in terms of Joint Rule 203(3)(c) and the Bill referred back to the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry for further consideration and report.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON WOMEN, YOUTH AND PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES - DRAFT NOTICE ON DETERMINATION OF REMUNERATION OF INDEPENDENT CONSTITUTIONAL INSTITUTIONS
Mr C N NDABA: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Speaker, hon Chair of Chairs, hon members, South Africans, good morning. Let me first pay homage to the Youth Month and commemorate the young revolutionaries of 1976 who fought fiercely against the brutal oppressive system of apartheid. We honour those fallen heroes and heroines of 1976 and those that still suffer the scars today. They paid a high price for the freedom that we so enjoy today. Hon members, this freedom never came easy. It came at a hefty price in which many young revolutionaries sacrificed their lives for the freedom we experience today.
As I introduce the report we recognise that the honours to transform our society free from discrimination including racial discrimination rest upon us. As the ANC we reiterate our stand against gender-based violence and condemn all acts of violence against women in the country and the continent at
large. The report I am introducing on behalf of the Portfolio Committee On Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities covers the Draft Notice on Draft Notice on Determination of Remuneration of Independent Constitutional Institution of the Commission for Gender Equality.
On 13 April 2021, a letter was received from the President of the Republic of South Africa requesting the National Assembly to consider the draft notice of determination of the salaries and allowances payable to office bearers of independent constitutional institutions including the commissioners for Gender Equality in terms of the Determination of Remuneration of Office-Bearers of Independent Constitutional Laws Amendment Act, Act 22 of 2014. The matter was referred by the Speaker of the National Assembly to the committee for it to consider the proposed determination for the salaries and allowances payable to the commissioners of the Commission for Gender Equality.
The Portfolio Committee On Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities met on 18 of 2021 and considered the Draft Notice on Determination of Remuneration of Independent Constitutional Institutions.
Having taken into account the economic serious challenges that the country faces, the constraints fiscal environment, the wage bill, the impact of public office bearers salary increment on the fiscus, the general economic status of the country which has been negatively affected by the COVID-19 pandemic and the affordability of the fiscus, the President has recommended a 0% salary increment for all public office bearers for independence constitutional constitutions for the financial year 2020-21.
In terms of section 8(1)(a) of the Commission for Gender Equality Act, Act 39 1996, and I quote:
I hereby determine that the salaries and allowances of commissioners for the Commission for Gender Equality shall be as set out in the schedule with effect from 01 April 2020, Notice No 1333 published in Government Gazette No 43982 of 10 December 2020, is hereby repealed.
Hence the schedule stipulates remuneration levels with effect from 01 April 2021 of members of the Commission for Gender Equality, chairperson total remuneration of R1 140 716; deputy chairperson, total remuneration of R984 162; full time commissioners, total remuneration of R915 818 per
commissioner; and part time commissioners, sitting allowance for part time positions per day is at R3 634.
In conclusion, the committee having deliberated concur with the President’s determination on the remuneration adjustment of the Commission for Gender Equality, CGE, commissioners. [ Time expired.]
There was no debate.
Declarations of vote:
Mr L MPHITI: Deputy Speaker and House Chairperson, it is always important to be reminded of the importance of independent constitutional institutions, particularly one like the Commission of Gender Equality which has a significant role to play in promoting and protecting the rights of South Africans. The Portfolio Committee on Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities, considered the draft notice that was tabled at the committee referred to it by the President of the Republic.
In considering the Report, it was hard to forget the millions South African people who have been the hardest hit during the lockdown and have been severely affected by the COVID19
pandemic. They have taken blow by blow. The lockdown has killed millions of jobs and left many destitute. The current fiscal constraints and challenges continue to hit us all where it hurts. The DA recognises that the country finds itself on the edge of the fiscal cliff.
Let us not make the mistake of forgetting that young people continue to bear the brunt of unemployment, poverty and inequality. For South Africans in the age group between 15-34 the situation is far, far worse.
Hon House chairperson, we have serious challenges, that is why ordinary South Africans are realising that they can no longer look to the ANC for help. As the DA we would like to remind this government to make financially sound decisions that take cognisance of the economic challenges we face. The DA welcomes the salary freeze on office bearers earning above R1,5 million which is in line with what we have been saying as the DA through hon Hill-Lewis. The DA supports the findings of the committee and reminds the ANC that a measured and responsible government is crucial at this time for all South Africans, particular young people who are facing the brunt of unemployment. I thank you.
Ms N K F HLONYANA: House Chairperson, the work done by the Commission for Gender Equality is of crucial importance to the country. In the context of rising cases of gender-based violence of entrenched patriarchal attitudes that manifest themselves at homes, at work and across all sectors of society, it is important that the Commission for Gender Equality is empowered and supported by all means necessary.
Where austerity measures taken by the Treasury must not in any ways stop the commission from doing its work because South African women cannot afford to have their low voice amongst state institutions silenced because of Tito Mboweni’s obsession with austerity.
That said, the remuneration of the executive management of the commission is not a restrictive measure to the work the commission does. Our support of the measure to keep tight controls on the remuneration of senior executives is based on our long [Inaudible.] need to ensure that all employees of the state institutions are remunerated fairly and that the gap between the highest pay and the lowest paid works must be closed.
If this restrictions of the growth of salaries amongst the highest paid is not at the same time accompanies by the actual growth of the salaries of the lowest paid, then we will view it as a counter revolutionary move based on no substance. We support the report. Thank you very much.
Mr N SINGH: House Chairperson, the IFP applauds the presence of the independence constitutional institutions in the country and supports their mandate to promote human rights and to strengthen constitutional democracy. Equally, they are also proud that this House has power in making recommendations and the appointments made in these institutions. We hope they continue to exercise their jurisdiction fairly without pressures.
We also wish to express that despite the commendable functions of these institutions, they have often failed to execute their duties. For example, the IFP has repeatedly expressed their discontent with the decision emanating from the Office of the Public Protector. We have questioned with disappointments that shame the conduct in the Estina Dairy Farm matter and the poor judgment made this office in 2019, when the North Gauteng High Court found their report to be, and I quote, “... very contradictory and nonsensical.”
However, we continue to vote that this office, together with other independent constitutional institutions, promote democracy of our country to reflect high regard they supposedly represent.
The IFP supports the suggestion that the existing commissioners from these institutions should operate under the committee to enable the alignment of their salaries with their responsibilities. We also welcome the 0% increment in salaries for the 2021-22 financial year and the report with suitable adjustments to the date as highlighted. I thank you, hon Chairperson.
Mr S N SWART: House Chair, the ACDP supports the report. I thank you.
Ms T MBWEBA: House Chair, hon members, fellow South Africans, as we enter the Youth Month allow me to honour and commemorate the youth of 1976. As we approach the Youth Day we acknowledge and recognises their struggles and sacrifices. It is up to us to carry their revolutionary spirit to overcome the struggles and challenges experienced by the youth of today.
Young people today are confronted by numerous challenges raging from high levels of unemployment, access to free education, mental health issues and discrimination. The outrage at a recent event at a school particularly black students continue to be marginalised and discriminated against on the basis of black hair. These are reminders that as a society we still have a long way to go to achieve inclusivity and transformation in our country.
Hon Chairperson, I am triggered and reminded of the ideals of the freedom charter where it says and I quote:
The door of learning and culture shall be open to all.
I am triggered because even today young children are still discriminated against in schools due to the culture and their blackness. Indeed, in our country the oppressor’s culture dominates. However, we will be doomed if we allow such to continue in this country.
As the ANC, we are working tirelessly to bring about social transformation in our country and build a society where all are treated equally with human dignity and have respect for everyone’s human rights.
We recognise the struggles facing women, youth and people with disabilities and members of the LGBTQIA+ community. We hold the stand that there is no freedom and equality without the recognition of equal rights for the LGBTQIA+ and persons living with disabilities.
We are adamant in bringing social transformation, a culture of inclusivity and access to opportunities for all the vulnerable groups. It has always been our objective to protect the most vulnerable and take an intersectional approach and protect the most vulnerable amongst us.
Our objective as the ANC has always been to advance the emancipation of women through our various programmes and government partnerships and initiatives to support and promote the struggle for the rights of youths and people living disabilities.
The ANC-led government will ensure the proper implementation of the national strategic plan of gender-based violence and fermicide. We also ensure the establishment of the national council on gender-based violence and fermicide. The women in this country have endured enough in the brutal attack on daily basis.
Our government will continue to support state institutions such as the Commission for Gender Equality that plays a significant role in the advocating for the rights of the disadvantaged in our society. And review the current legislation that is discriminatory against women and the disadvantaged persons.
We will continue to mainstream youth, women and persons living with disabilities to employment opportunities as well as mainstream economy. We are adamant in building a society that is free from all forms of discrimination. My colleague earlier asked “What would the youth of 1976 say to the current challenges faced by the youth of today?” Hon members, I think they will say as revolutionaries continue the struggle and uphold the revolution until all forms of inequality, racism and discrimination has been addressed.
We cannot live in a country where some enjoys freedom and some do not. Young people, women and persons with disabilities must be prioritised. As the ANC-led government, we will address inequality and uproot all forms of discrimination in the pursuit of the social transformation agenda, addressing unemployment that has deeply affected young people of this country. The ANC moves in support of the report of women,
youth and persons with disabilities. I thank you very much, hon Chair.
Question put.
Voting
Report approved.
DETERMINATION OF REMUNERATION OF INDEPENDENT CONSTITUTIONAL INSTITUTIONS
(Consideration of Report of Standing Committee)
Mr S S SOMYO: House Chair, hon members, good evening, it is our pleasure to introduce to this House for consideration the report of the Standing Committee on the Auditor-General on the determination of salaries by the President in respect of the head of the supreme audit institution of the republic, the Auditor-General.
On 21 May, the committee considered this important matter after it was referred to it by the Speaker of the NA. this was after the President has written to the House where he makes a
consideration, based on the recommendations of the independent commission for remunerating of public office bearers.
The President’s own recommendation for consideration by this House update on the convincing points made by the commission for salary freezes across the board. Notably, this to
state the country’s fiscal conditions, the State Wage Bill and the general economic conditions of the country especially the effects of the COVID-19 pandemic.
The committee considered the matter in the context of this advice. And unanimously supported the recommendation for the 0% salary increment in respect of the country’s auditor general. We humble request that in light of the above the House supports the intended determination by the President as a recommended by the committee’s report before it today.
Declarations of vote:
Ms S P KOPANE: House Chairperson, the Select Committee on the Auditor-General, AG, considered the determination of the President in respect of the salaries and allowances of members of the Independent constitutional institutions and public office bearers.
We have taken note of the President’s decision not to increase the salaries and allowances of elected public office bearers. Given the difficult economic crisis, our government poor management of public funds and the economic consequences of COVOD-19, we believe that it is the right decision under circumstances.
Councillors, Members of Parliament, MPs, members of legislatures, MPLs, Ministers and mayors are already rewarded very well for the work that they do. It would have been sinful for salaries and allowances to be increased in an environment where millions of people have lost their jobs. In fact, while we are in full support of the decision, we are disappointed that the President did not cut the salaries of some of our useless Ministers who have contributed to the worsening economic situation in our country. That would have been a very welcome step and a strong message to the country.
In respect of the salary increase for the Auditor-General, the President has also decided not to increase any allowances and salaries. We support this decision as the DA. However, I would like to use this opportunity to highlight the difficult situations the AG’s office faces every year in respect of poor funding to achieve their objectives.
Hon House Chair, every year we read with disappointment and disgust the increasing incidents of irregular and wasteful expenditure which gets worse every year. Although we express anger at this plain situation, I wish to remind the members of this House that the report presented by the AG annually reflect only a portion of what they have uncovered. This is because there isn’t enough money for the AG to conduct more in depth audit of government use of public funds. So in reality, the situation is worse than we know.
Unless we are going to increase the funding allocation to the AG’s office, more billion will be wasted and stolen and we wouldn’t even have notice. The DA call upon the Minister of Finance to give this matter urgent consideration and provide a greater financial support to the AG’s office so that we can prevent the high rates of corruption and financial mismanagement that is taking place in municipalities across the country.
Anyway, the Minister need not to allocate more funds to the audit to audit the DA-run municipalities because where the DA governs we don’t steal people’s money. I thank you, House Chair.
Ms N K F HLONYANA: House Chairperson, without the office of the Auditor- General, AG, the looting by the ruling party would have gone on and on with hardly anyone accounting for their evil ways. Despite this the looting has continued because the ruling party simple ignores the findings and the recommendations of the AG. It is because of the AG that we now know that the vast majority of our municipalities are dysfunctional and political leadership had paid attention to the recommendations of the AG, municipalities such as Marikana, Mfuleni and others would not have collapsed the way they have now.
It is therefore a very important institution which needs all the support of South Africans. The work done by the AG requires that we incentivise ordinary auditors who are doing their job on daily basis so that we keep the skills and passion in the public sector. The lowest paid among them must feel that they are appreciated for the work they do.
The Auditor –General and her deputy can afford to go on for a few years without a significant salary increase. The 0% increase for this financial year for the AG and herself is not a stumbling block in the efficiency functioning of the AG’s office. And must be supported with a content of improved
salary conditions of other low paid employees in the office of the AG. We support the report. Thank you very much.
Mr N SINGH: Thank you very much, hon Chairperson. In considering this report, we need to be reminded that the response to the Covid-19 pandemic has undeniably widened opportunities for fraud and corruption. And now more than ever, we need to be vigilant with our vulnerable resources. The importance of the role of the Auditor-General in these uncertain times cannot be emphasised more. From the outset the IFP wishes to recognise the immense contribution this institution plays and has played in the fight against the pandemic of corruption.
The institution plays a critical oversight role by monitoring procurement process is associated with governments Covid-19 relief packages and the IFP salutes the institutions dedication for upholding its constitutional duty. It remains highly concerning that the Auditor-General has again highlighted in its second Covid-19 audit report released in December 2020, that there were instances where both in the health and education sectors where competitive processes were not followed in the procurement of personal protective
equipment. This simply cannot be accepted and we need to closely monitor and investigate the situation.
Hon Chairperson, the sad reality is that South Africa’s dire economic circumstances will inevitably impact on the operations of this critical institution. We should be aware that SA fiscal constraints must be considered when determining the remuneration of officials of constitutional institutions. We, therefore, agree with President determinations as presented to the standing committee. The IFP, however, wishes to strongly urge Parliament to support this critical institution in its oversight function. We cannot allow this pandemic to hinder this institution from fulfilling its critical mandate in oversight, and we have to ensure that a noncompliance with its recommendations is not simply excuse and accepted. We also have a vital role to play in supporting this institution.
In conclusion, the IFP will closely monitor the reports of this institution as fraud and corruption debilitate the government and prevented from fulfilling its basic constitutional mandate for the people and providing access to claiming their human rights. The IFP supports this Report of standing committee on Auditor-General. I thank you.
Mr S N SWART: The ADCP supports the Report. Thank you.
Mr Z MLENZANA: Thanks Chairperson. The ANC welcomes the Report. Before we go deep we have some corrections to make. We have hon members here who do not participate in those meetings and would come in now running parallel to what is happening in the committees, where they come and cry foul but today it is not for that. The DA is invited to be part of the committee.
The will first note that this is not a select committee, it is actually a standing committee only on the Auditor-General.
There is money that has been pumped in seriously because we have seen the amount of work way that the office of the Auditor-General is actually doing.
Hon Chair, in supporting this we have considered that in order to achieve our policy priorities there are fiscal measures that are put in place which include amongst others, primary reductions to wage bill. Now we have to narrow the budget deficit and stabilise debt over the next five years to return public finance to any good position. That is why committee unanimously agreed to support the recommendations for the zero percent salary increment in respect of the Auditor-General.
Importantly, the committee’s decision is in line with national
government fiscal measures and strategy. Further, it is also
in line with the principle of coherent government as stipulated with the Chapter three of the Constitution. So, this mean that we can’t be pulling to the opposite direction, which will compromise with fiscal consolidation which the South African government is striving to attain. Hon Chairperson, the ANC support the Report of the committee as just introduced by the chairperson of the standing committee on Auditor-General, not the select committee. It is high time that these hijacked people who do not know what is happening in the committee be schooled thoroughly. I thank you, Chair.
Question put
Agreed to.
THE MINISTER OF COMMUNICATION: As I was preparing my speech for this debate, I came across the most recent picture of a lifeless body of a Palestinian child under the knee of a uniformed police from Israel. This picture which continues to haunt me, makes us to emphatically say, Palestine children or any other children should be protected and not killed. They should not die at the hands of the police, a soldier or any other adult.
This picture causes painful memories of the Soweto uprisings in 1976, which arguably marked a leap forward towards the advent of democracy in South Africa. How long? How many lives must be lost? If all brutalities of this magnitude are characterised for what they are, a crime against humanity.
Time has come for humankind to realise that, brutalities unleashed against other human beings have no place in our society. All of us must realise that, as human beings we belong together irrespective of the artificial divides we create and justifies for selfish acts.
Hon members, today we have not come to share the gloom and despair induced by COVID-19, and therefore continues to loom large over our country and other nations. We are here, calling young people of our country to join hands with government in enhancing the Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan’s meaningful implementation. The pandemic crisis brought forward unprecedented opportunities in the digital communications space, for which we are supporting young people to benefit from, through active participation.
House Chair, the heirs of the Fourth Industrial revolution are the young people. Whether they take this inheritance as deserving heirs or not, will depend on the choices they make.
It is in this context that as the department we developed the Digital Economic Masterplan and its action plan thereof. The plan seeks to ensure that, all South Africans are digitally empowered to create and participate in the entirely enabled opportunity, that drives inclusiveness employment and economic transformation across all provinces.
In regenerating economic opportunities in local technology manufacturing, transformative technology applications, digital training services and of course digital platforms. We are calling for the localisations of the electronics manufacturing sector. Here hon members, South Africa has become an intrigued market of 11 million learners who need devices. Twelve million households who require water metres, the police and the defence are in need of electronic devices. About 1;4 million cellphone users change devices almost every two years. We are talking approximately over R70 billion over a period of three to five years.
To tap into this ecosystem, our department is embarking on massive skills development programme. These include but not limited to the Electronic Device Repairs Programme. The business of water metres alone, can generate up to
R8,4 billion and opportunities for local manufacturers.
On telecommunications technologies demand, we are again calling for localisation of optic fibre technologies manufacturing. Here, we estimate that the economic value is R100 billion and it can be generated over a period of five years and thousands of jobs will be generated. Young people must grab this opportunity with both hands in order to enhance industrialisation.
Hon members, on broadband investments, R70 billion is required for us to roll out broadband. We definitely need this amount, as we seek to ensure that all South Africans are connected. In this regard we are partnering with the private sector position our young people to be trained in fibre related courses. This must culminate to some being beneficiaries of the 30% of procurement that goes to black youth-owned small, medium and micro-sized enterprises, SMMEs.
In the deployment of 5G, approximately 2 000 bay stations will be built by the three operators this year. Our local youth will certainly benefit from these projects.
Hon members, on cloud and data investment centres, this is one of the fastest and growing technologies in our country. To empower young people, we are in a partnership with sister
departments to train young people in data science and related skills. We are as a submission ... [Inaudible] ... in TVET colleges across provinces. In and out of school youth will benefit from this programme including those that did not pass matric.
As we rollout digital migration, we encourage young people to register as installers of the set-top boxes, as there are many households to be migrated. Our vision is to ensure that, each village, each street, each ward has a qualified installer.
IsiXhosa:
Nca umntu emntwini bantu abatsha.
English:
Working with Small Enterprise Development Agency, Seda, the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition, DTIC, Department of Science and Innovation, DSI, we are deliberate in promoting innovation and commercialisation. To witness the enormous innovation that South Africa has, last week with the Youth ICT Council, we visited a software developer by the name of Phindile Ranuga - Mpumelelo Mahlangu who is a young man who has designed a laptop and the robotics designer Jeremiah
Chauke whom we all supported in commercialising their products, in order to promote use of local innovations.
In the spirit of unity, rebuilding and renewal, we call upon all young people to seize these opportunities. Let Frantz Fanon’s fine expression as he said, and I quote:
Each generation must, out of relative obscurity, discover its mission, fulfil it, or betray it.
Hon members as I conclude, allow me once more to quote Mme Charlotte Maxeke when she said, and I quote:
This work is not for yourselves- kill that spirit of self, and do not live above your people but live with them. If you can rise, bring someone with you.
Hon members, the Fourth Industrial Revolution forces us to co- ordinate in order to collaborate for effective execution. I thank you, madam Chair.
Mr L MPHITHI: Hon House Chairperson, hon members, today I want to speak to the sad generation, the sad generation with happy pictures, the generation that was sold dreams of hope, the
generation that is seeing all things fall apart, the generation killing time and losing patience.
IsiXhosa:
“Siyasokola njengabantu abatsha.” [We are struggling as young
people.]
English:
For many of us we are past the pontifications of the ANC. We are past the innuendos that go nowhere. The fact is that as at today, we are number one in the world for the highest unemployment rate at 74,7%. [Interjections.]
In other words, out of all the countries in the world that exist, be they in Africa, in North or South America, in Asia or in Europe and on and on, we are number one. Number one, hon members. Like, how does it feel to have young people unemployed? How does it feel to sit in the ANC benches and watch as young people suffer day in and day out. Guys, “nimuncu”.
Just last week in this very same House we debated the 25-year anniversary of the Constitution and what it means for us. My question is: What does it mean for the sad generation, a
generation facing an ever-increasing mental health strain that is hardly being talked about? We live with depression, anxiety and many other mental disorders. This is what weighs heavy on us. We live with the frustration and the anxiety of having to inherit an incapable state at the brink of economic collapse. The reality is that this generation will become middle-aged, repaying and rebuilding this economy.
I wonder whether the ANC ever imagines what it is to be young. But, for a minute, let’s imagine that they do. Actually, never mind. I can’t bring my mind to imagine it, because the truth of the matter is that the ANC does not have answers for this generation. It will not provide support to young people who are currently unemployed and unable to find work. It will not reach and meet the expectations of all youth-medium businesses which have suffered a serious blow because of the ANC lockdown. It will not assist with internships – learnerships – to support entry-level youth to do work. It will not help the unemployed youth in Sterkspruit, Zastron, Buhle Park, Tembisa, Meadowlands, Bushbuckridge and basically everywhere else. It will not make worthwhile strides around the data struggle in this country. In fact, it has no intention of stopping the corruption that is literally killing people each and every day in this country.
When will you stop eating at the expense of young people, comrades? I can’t imagine a day when the ANC is actually working for the development and benefit of young people in this country. Cry the beloved, sad generation, but I wonder whether we have any tears left to cry.
The theme of this debate is: “Growing youth employment for an inclusive and transformed society” amid COVID-19. So let’s talk about inclusiveness. All you need to do is to look at the ANC benches. Can you see how inclusive they are? Where are the young people?
One of the DA’s core principles is diversity. South Africa is rich in diversity. We believe that diversity is one of South Africa’s greatest assets. That’s why the DA celebrates diversity because we recognise that each individual can be who they want to be, free from the domination of others. I am grateful that the DA has afforded me and many other young people across councils, legislatures and in this very House the opportunity to begin to carve the space for inclusion. The idea that young people are apathetic on the mere basis that they are not voting is flawed. Saying this means that we are not prepared to do the work to create the space for young people.
Young people must not only become beneficiaries of programmes; we need to become partners. So we need to stop this thing that the ANC has started that is making young people dependent on grants. We cannot be dependent on grants. We are not a generation that will be grant-dependent. We are not a generation that will be trapped by the past. We want people, politicians and political parties that get things done.
Hon Speaker, the DA gets things done. The DA has a proven record in that where we govern we actually put young people at the centre of our agenda. [Applause.] Halala to the mayors of Midvaal, Nelson Mandela Bay and Tshwane who are actually doing the work of putting young people at the centre of their agenda. Young people, we wait on no one but ourselves. This sad generation will rise again despite the flaws of the ANC. I thank you, Speaker.
Ms N N CHIRWA: Thank you, Chairperson. Greetings to the commander-in-chief of the EFF Julius Sello Malema, the deputy president and chief of the EFF in Parliament Floyd Nyiko Shivambu, all the officials, commissars and ground forces of the EFF, to be young is necessarily to be full of hope, of ideas for the future and of endless opportunities; it is to be brave, caring and unapologetic. To be young is constantly to
become. To be young is to be in a state of transition: from childhood into adulthood, the most critical stage of one’s life.
But, sadly, in this country, under the leadership of the current ruling party, to be young is to become part of the 3,3 million young people not in school, not in training or not employed. To be young in South Africa is to be within a space of nothing besides dying because of absolute poverty and absolute hopelessness. That is the devastation that engulfs the youth in our country today.
We empathise with Max from Mamelodi who opened a local restaurant in the township and was required to bribe the NYDA R80 000 before receiving a business grant he qualified for and was entitled to have as a young person in South Africa. We are sorry that you are not a child of President Cyril Ramaphosa and that your contacts could not be looked at at close range. We empathise with the youth of Loiterwater, Musgund, Krakeelrivier, Twee Riviere, Nompumelelo and ... [Inaudible.]
... in the Eastern Cape who are still subjected to the dop system by white farmers who remunerate your labour with pap, sap and a packet of cigarettes.
We empathise with 11-year-old Esakhe Ntlonti who has never seen the door of a school because he has a disability. The Ministers of Basic Education and of Social Development know about your predicament because we told them last year, but, to date, they have done nothing about it. We are sorry that your mother is not a card-carrying member of the ANC.
We are deeply devastated by the tragic death of Yonwabo Manyanya whose lifeless body was found after she spent three days sleeping outside eThekwini TVET College, overcome with hunger after being evicted because NSFAS did not pay. We are sorry that Minister Tito Mboweni cut the money that was meant to keep you alive. We are sorry that your life was not bold or beautiful enough for Minister Blade Nzimande to do something about it.
To abolova emakoneni, the youth in the streets withering away to depression and finding solace on nyaope, nicknamed amaphara; young women asking for sex in exchange for EPWP jobs; graduates sitting at home; the thousands of others in jail and awaiting trial for over seven years for taking tinned food at Shoprite; the survivors of gender-based violence and rape and those who sadly succumbed to the vicious violence: We are sorry that what is standing between you, justice and
opportunity is a tenderpreneur who will offer the most in back-door payments to these thugs with no conscience.
It is a sad reality that the very people ... [Inaudible.] ... between the progress and success of young people in South Africa are the people in this very room who claim to have been at the forefront in the 16 June 1976 Soweto uprising. It is now apparent that, unlike your peers who were brutally killed who gained nothing from waging a fight against the apartheid regime, they were uprising to do to us what was done to them.
The hopelessness of the youth is designed and intentional. There are buckets full of solutions in this House that end up in the minutes of this Parliament and which will never see the light of day and manifest on the ground as long as the ANC remains in power. They will continue to chip away at your rights to free quality education and quality health care. They will continue to lose billions meant for water and sanitation in Giyani. They will continue to sponsor Dubai vacations for their secret girlfriends and boyfriends with the money meant to eradicate informal settlements. They will continue to give their friends R150 million to take pictures of them with money meant for COVID-19 vaccines. They will continue to not penalise mining companies which do not fulfil their community
development obligations and which do not ensure that miners, at the very least, have access to quality health care. They will continue to lie and ... [Inaudible.] ... about speed trains and special economic zones in rural areas. They will continue to ravage the very little we have, because the poorer we are and the less access to education we have, the more their abusive reign continues.
If this is not the case, resolve the ridiculous cost of data that keep the youth from accessing vital information and creating opportunities for themselves because you have failed to do so. End outsourcing and insource all workers at state institutions, nationalise all the mines, mineral wealth and other strategic sectors of the economy, create multiple state- owned banks in various industries, protect and promote infant industries and informal traders, and make education free. Stop theorising about beneficiation and domestic industrialisation and action ... [Inaudible.] Dissolve this treacherous austerity budget that is costing us lives, and expropriate land without compensation.
We call on the youth to rise to the occasion of removing this political government from power by registering to vote to take them out, one by one. Our political life and economic freedom
will not gather by itself into our hands. We must chase it by any means necessary and make an enemy out of anyone who stands between us and economic freedom in our lifetime. Being politically active is the first and a very vital step in this direction. I thank you.
Mr M N NXUMALO: Thank you very much, hon House Chair, hon Speaker and hon members ...
THE HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Hon Ntombela, may I
just intervene? May I request the members in the House to respect the member on the podium. Please, hon members, let’s give a member an opportunity.
Mr M N NXUMALO: Thank you very much, hon House Chair, hon Speaker, hon Deputy Speaker and hon members, as I was sitting, I remember when Mr Hlengwa first came to Parliament in 2012 as a young man debating on 16 June or on the month of June, discussing particularly the issues that we are discussing today. It has never given birth to any productivity in all the discussions that we have had.
What has happened today through the statistics that have been demonstrated amongst all of us, is a clear indication of the
deterioration of our country and what young people that we seek to represent are facing. That is the reality that has been highlighted by the two young people that have been here. Our young people, hon Speaker, are vulnerable, they are hungry and they do not have opportunities. Once we admit that these debates must culminate to something that would give to anything productive, then we would be addressing issues of young people.
As we commemorate youth month today, and the celebration that comes with it, the IFP believes that we must also take time to reflect to the state of young people in our country, particularly when it comes to employment and their career prospects.
The COVID-19 has left at least 3 million South Africans without employment, compounding an already existing problem – as I have indicated. According to statistics, the most recent Quarterly Labour Survey, South Africa’s official unemployment rate has risen to 32,3%, - as one of my colleagues has said. The expanded definition of youth unemployment, which includes those discouraged from getting work increase to 42,6%.
Employment is still concentrated amongst young people, particularly black who are bearing the brunt of this crisis.
We can mention the statistics as much as we want, the reality is that we need to find a way ... I mean the IFP has put a Private Member’s Bill to say that we need to secure certain sectors of the economy and set up jobs mainly for South Africans, which I know some will contest, but the reality is that those people who we represent and those who vote for us, they are the ones who are in need of jobs and they are being pushed out in their own country and their own space of work where they used to make means, now they no longer have space.
The most concerning aspect of our unemployment next to the climbing figures is that the efforts being made to address the rising are outweighed by the rising numbers. This serves to snuff out whatever hope our young population for employment, security and dignity in their lives.
The impact of the pandemic has left many homes devastated by the loss of income and uncertainty about the future. South Africa’s youth remain the most vulnerable in an economy where skills are mandatory for employment. With their future relying heavily on job creation, readiness and ability to enter the job market, as a result, in order to change the tide of this contingent, we must place more focus on ways to facilitate job creation and close the wealth gap. It is not enough to empower
young people or youth by giving them entry level jobs. We must ensure that they receive the support that is necessary to allow them to rise through the ranks and eventually change the poverty demographics in our country.
The IFP recognises the economic hardships that has the country and world at large to its knees, but there are numerous initiatives that have been created to resuscitate and address youth unemployment such as the Youth Employment Service, YES, programme, which I can have another debate on a different day about it. A partnership with the private sector to target young people well beyond the pandemic ... the IFP hopes that in future, it will not take such devastating numbers and the pandemic for an inclusive and transformative effort to be made to address the plight of our young people. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr W W WESSELS: Thank you, House Chairperson. House Chairperson, previous speakers have elaborated on the crisis of youth unemployment, and it is a crisis. About 25 000 skilled workers leaves annually because of lack of opportunities, the high crime rate, policy uncertainty, and the fact that our economy is not growing. Even if a person succeeds against all odds to obtain a matric certificate, or
against even greater odds to obtain tertiary education, such person is left with limited opportunities.
This government is paying lip service to youth development. Celebrating youth month and Youth Day is only lip service. Having a department dedicated to youth development does not mean anything. Having a failed National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, does not develop the youth.
House Chairperson, 25 years later, and even though there is a constitutional provision, youth still does not have the right to access and to education in their official language of choice, they only have the choice between two languages.
Government is making a concerted effort not to make it more but to make it less; to only make English the language of education. Whilst you do not prioritise mother tongue education, you are not serious about quality education, you are not serious about youth transformation, and you are not serious about development.
House Chairperson, this government has failed. The ruling party has failed the youth. Failed policies, failed ideology and failed legislation, which are only reducing the youth to skin colours and not providing equal opportunities. That is
failure. Your lack of service delivery is failing the youth, is failing youth development.
The Minister should not come here and talk about technology and skills development in technology. You can’t even get the electricity grid going. You can’t have technology with the load shedding all the time. We need a stable electricity network. We need roads to drive on if we want economic development and economic growth. Failed ideology is creating a detrimental situation.
Whilst you are not creating a conducive for the private sector to create jobs and to address unemployment, you are failing the youth.
Afrikaans:
Die jeug word gefaal. Die regering praat net oor jeugontwikkeling. Op die einde van die dag, faal hierdie beleid om werlik gelyke geleenthede en om ’n beter toekoms te skep.
Hierdie regering en die regerende party mag nie Jeugdag en Jeugmaand vier nie. U moet eerder skaam wees oor die feit dat u die toekoms wurg, dat u die jeug wurg. Erken dat u nie die
jeug prioritiseer nie. U korrupsie steel die toekoms by die jeug. Praat die waarheid. Begin om die werklike prioriteite te identifiseer en hou op om memse te reduseer.
Die jeug mag trots wees op wie en wat hulle is, trots wees op hul taal, hul kultuur en hul erfenis. Daar is ’n toekoms in Suid-Afrika, maar daardie toekoms is sonder die ANC en beslis ook sonder die EFF. Ek dank u.
Ms M E SUKERS: Thank you House Chairperson, I just need to apologise, I am in the dark. I will not switch the video on.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Okay, it’s fine,
hon member.
Ms M E SUKERS: House Chairperson, I was very young the day Nelson Mandela walked out of prison, but I watched as he mesmerises thousands of our people line the streets to see him walk to freedom. It was as if that day, everything we had hoped for as the people came in to fulfilment. Hope was alive in our hearts. The pulse of our people felt every cheer in every song.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Sorry, hon member, there is a person with their microphone on. Please, take care. Be careful. Hon Sukers, go ahead, please.
Ms M E SUKERS: I read the phrase “Mayibuye iAfrica”, the very first time in the book by Fatima Meer. It evokes much deep emotion. In 1989, I would march in Cape Town with our people to demand democracy for all. We thought my generation would partake in the last push for democracy. Our teacher told us to get educated because when freedom comes, we must take our place.
Today, in this House, sit many like me with more valuing stories than mine; a generation that now carries the button to let freedom and democracy reign. The spirit of endurance and the fire for justice that despite of our DNA should propel us towards the same excellence of spirit that possessed Charlotte Maxeke and Albert Luthuli. I want to put it to this House, they can only be described as Christian democrats. We were given the button to carry to the next generation for them to hope and dream as we did; as I did, when I heard the words “Mayibuye iAfrica”, but alas.
What is missing in this place is not democracy, but leadership that inspires the new generation. The dream of Africa and our people is being slaughtered in the street of Mannenberg, Bonteheuwel and Lavender Hill. The bodies of our daughters and sons in mortuaries is the dream deferred. For them, the sacrifices of 1976 have not borne fruit. There is a generation that does not aspire because they dare not hope. They dare not hope because they are the pride of basic security and of the opportunities that allows them to hope.
The Minister of Social Development has committed to join me visit our communities here on the cape flats. I want to extend the same invitation to the cluster Ministers and the Minister of Safety and Security. Only when we have a comprehensive and co-ordinated plan to put an end to gangsterism, freedom will be born for the youth of the cape flats.
In this House we invoke the names of South Africa’s great Christian democratic leaders, Charlotte Maxeke and Albert Luthuli, but we truly need to understand and share the values only when we emulate their moral leadership, where we build the legacy that inspired South Africa’s youth, then will Africa truly come and transformation for all. Then, we will
say “Mayibuye iAfrica”, and bring a generation back to hope. I thank you, House Chairperson.
If I have time, I need to correct something, Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you, hon member.
Ms M E SUKERS: Do I have time, Chair?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): No, you are well above. Way out of time. Next time. Thank you very much.
IsiXhosa:
Mnu V ZUNGULA: Ndiyabulela Sihlalo, ...
English:
... the youth of South Africa is resilient, innovative and can transform this country should we be given an opportunity. Thomas Sankara did it in three years, we can do it in less than three years. South Africa has a youth unemployment rate that is more than 74,4%. This has led to hopelessness amongst young people. There are 3,3 million young people who are in the lost generation. They aren’t in employment, education or
training. Does the government even care for these young people? As the young people, we need the government to provide practical solutions to our problems of systematic exclusion, poor quality of education, no funding for higher education and joblessness. We can’t accept that the fate of young people in our country, its drugs, crime and sex work.
IsiXhosa:
Unotshe!
English:
Students have been raped, slept outside in the cold and have died all because of the incompetence of National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS. We can’t have more than 700 000 unemployed graduates, who are mostly young people. There needs to be bold steps taken by the government to improve the lives of young people. This is what must happen. The education system needs to be completely overhauled. We need an education system that is in line with the current economic demands that produces job creators, instead of job seekers. There must be free, quality, compulsory education. You increased value-added tax, VAT, from 14% to 15% to fund free education.
IsiXhosa:
Iphi lo mali? Abafundi mabafunde simahla.
English:
Technical Vocational Education and Training, TVET, colleges must be given priority and the artisans produce must be assisted to run companies that service people’s daily needs. Young people must be given priority in the job market. Young people can’t be overlooked in favour of cheap labour by non- South Africans. Government must enact legislation that forces the private sector to do away with some of the job requirements that systematically excludes the black youth like experience, own car etc. Eight hundred and thirty-five restrictions on jobs, business must be done away with. Inner- cities must be transformed to provide student accommodation, an accommodation for young people close to areas of economic activity. Government needs to provide, make a vigorous buy- local campaign. We have seen with “Batho and Vuka dakkie” how buying local creates jobs for young people. Government needs to deal with counterfeit products sold in these China Malls Johannesburg Central Business District, CBD, as they destroy the businesses of young people.
Lastly, the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, must not be an employment agency of the ruling party. It must be for
all young people and must have offices in all provinces, regions and localities. As young people, we are saying nothing about us, without us. I thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you very much, hon Zungula.
IsiZulu:
Ngiyaxolisa ke, besengixolisile kuwena, mhlonishwa Ngcobo. Usungangena ke manje uvela ku-DA.
Mr S NGCOBO: Hon House Chairperson, young people of this country have long been forgotten by this government. Today, we have more than 41% of young South Africans, who are unemployed and who are not in education or training. This means they are not able to provide for themselves and their families. This government has forgotten young people like Gcinumthetho Majola, from a deeply rural community called Ntsikeni at UMzimkhulu in KwaZulu-Natal. Mr Majola runs a small grass cutting and landscaping business. He indicated to me that he has tried numerus time to apply for funding to the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, and other government institutions with no success. He is now unable to sustain his business and he will soon be forced to shutdown if he does not
receive funding. The Experiences of Gcinumthetho Majola are shared by many young people across the country, especially those who are in deep-rural areas, who feel that this government continues to neglect them.
House Chairperson, young people who are disabled feel that they have been left behind by this government. According to a research brief on a quality and disability in South Africa, which was done by SA Human Rights Commission it is estimated that eight out of ten persons with disabilities are unemployed and that includes young person with disabilities. Today, we still have young people with disabilities who are sitting at home because there is a shortage of special needs schools. The DA in the Portfolio of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities recently conducted oversight visits across the country, visiting the NYDA offices. What we have discovered is that there is a lack of inclusion of young persons with disabilities in the NYDA’s training and grants programmes. Not even a single NYDA office we visited could show us the learning materials, that could be used for a young person with a hearing or a sight impairment. Not even a single NYDA office could tell us how they could assist a young person with hearing impairment if they were to show up in their offices looking for assistance.
House Chairperson, the exclusion of persons with disabilities is unacceptable. The DA in the Portfolio of Women, Youth and Persons with Disabilities suggested to the NYDA that they should work with organisations that represent the interest of persons with disabilities like DEAFSA, to ensure the availability of sign language interpretation services as when these are required at their branches. We believe that there are solutions that the government must implement immediately to break down barriers that keep the young people without opportunities.
We must recognise and support informal traders in that way, we will be able to ensure that there’s economic inclusion of young people. The government must also ensure that young people have access to data so that they can be able to gain access to the internet. Rolling out the national job centre project will be a great initiative where young people can access internet, search a centralised jobs database, get help in compiling curriculum vitae, CVs. This is an initiative that will young people who stay in rural areas and have no access to the internet. As a party that gets things done where it governs, this is what the DA will do at the national. Thank you.
Ms M MODISE: Hon Chairperson, members of the House and fellow South Africans, being youth is the gift of nature but age is a work of art. It is undisputable fact that for a society to thrive, it needs to build its future on its youth.
During the joint sitting last week, members of both Houses of Parliament commemorated a significant milestone in our democracy, the 25 of the Constitution. Various issues were lifted, including the progress made since the adoption of the Constitution, and the challenges we face as a nation.
The ANC has been at the centre of it all from as early as 1923, both as a liberation and a human rights movement. Today we debate about an important section of our society, the youth that has throughout history influenced the dispossession and politics of our country.
House Chairperson, the ANC’s idea of forming the ANC Youth League began in the early 1940s as a result of young people’s impatience with the manner in which the ANC and the entire national liberation movement responded to apartheid repression. Founded by young articulate intellectuals in 1944, the ANC youth leaders declared that they were laying their services at the disposal of the ANC in belief that knowledge
and conviction that the course of Africa must and will triumph.
In his wisdom, ANC president Josiah Gumede argued that the youth league should be formed because that was the only way to make the ANC live forever. He cultivated an understanding amongst his peers that the movement could not change the situation radically without the united efforts of younger generations. Working for the relief for their fellow men, history has indeed proven his correct and ANC indeed becomes stronger.
The intention of the founders of the ANC Youth League was to build a vibrant, militant and dynamic youth movement that would rally the youth behind the vision of the ANC. This generation even went further to radicalise the ANC. The cry freedom in our lifetime became a rallying call for all youth to be active in the liberation struggle. We are shocked when those who just arrived yesterday [abomafikizolo], some represented in this Parliament wants to appropriate this slogan of freedom in our lifetime.
House Chairperson, it is important for us to take a moment and reflect on a journey travelled. The ANC, through the Freedom
Charter, declared that the doors of learning and culture shall be opened, education shall be free, higher education and technical training shall be opened to all by means of state allowances and scholarships awarded on basis of merit.
Education is a basic human right and has been made an apex priority by the ANC. To us, education is pivotal to economy prosperity, assisting South Africans personally and collectively to escape the poverty trap that characterised many of our communities. Today, the ANC-led government is providing free education to the poor across all levels from primary schooling to institutions of higher learning.
In line with the resolutions of the ANC 52nd and 53rd national conferences, the ANC-led government has ensured that it accelerates the implementation of new financial support model to ensure that academically capable poor, working class and middle class students are supported to access higher education and receive fully subsidised further education and training.
The Department of Higher Education announced that it has also started a feasibility study towards the building of two more universities; the university of science and innovation that will be located in the city of Ekurhuleni and the crime detection university in Hammanskraal. After a struggle of two
decades, the TVET certificates backlog has been eliminated. Through the efforts of the ANC-led government, 90% of our TVET college students are NSFAS funded through providing free higher education for children of the poor and working class and in our colleges, the NSFAS approved budget for 2021 is R41,5 billion. This excludes the R4,6 billion additional budget approved. Irrespective of the challenges NSFAS funding has increased more than fivefold in six years from
R5,9 billion in 2014 to R34,7 billion 2020.
House Chairperson, the ANC 54th national conference resolved that youth employment must be prioritised, including through effective public employment programmes, internships, jobs placements, youth set asides procurement from youth-owned enterprises and youth entrepreneurship programmes. The President, in his January statement outlines the ANC’s priorities for the year which includes restoring the economy growth and creating jobs. The importance of economic recovery and reconstruction cannot be overstated.
The COVID-19 pandemic has resulted in the unprecedented levels of economic contraction and job losses. Economy growth, job creation and investment into the economy are important. The youth are amongst the most affected and will certainly not be
left behind. The President during the state of the nation address in 2020 announced that 1000 youth owned businesses would be supported in 100 days. The Department of Small Business Development worked closely with the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, and was able to deliver on this project under the challenging conditions of COVID-19 pandemic. The department announced that it will be continuing with this partnership as it is the biggest contributor in ensuring that it achieves the target of supporting 15 000 enterprises by 2024.
One of the successes of the democratic dispensation is the attainment of the political right and freedom. Political rights did not fall from the sky; they are born out of struggle. The exercise of this particular right, the right to vote, cannot be exercised without the identity document. Since 2013, the Department of Home Affairs has managed to issue
17 million smart ID cards. For the 2021 financial year the performance stood at more than 1,2 million smart cards issued to citizens of 16 years of age and above which is an over achievement.
On Youth Day last year, the department officially launched the learner smart ID programme in Mpumalanga with each of the home
affairs provincial offices around the country assisting learners without IDs to obtain their ID cards. Out of this initiative, 622 539 smart IDs were provided for the first applicants who were predominantly youth.
In the midst of the new situation facing South Africa today, young women and men are burying the brunt of triple challenges of poverty, inequality and high levels of unemployment.
Welcoming interventions made by our government, we encourage those tasked with the responsibility to lead us to make more efforts, to increase employment opportunities for our youth. Young people are tired of handouts and are eager to find solutions in defeating the triple challenges as described above.
The youth of 1976 discovered and fulfilled its mission. They were their own liberators. The youth of today will equally not disappoint. It has discovered its mission and shall certainly fulfil it. Contrary to the popular sentiments that young people of this country are active citizens and they are keen of change. The young people of this country are the most active and vital force in the life of our society because they are the most eager to learn and the least conservative in their thinking. Almost all progressive ideas and protest
actions emanates from within the youth ranks. The unbelieving Thomases will witness the might of the youth in the upcoming local government elections on 27 October 2021 where they once again affirm the ANC as their hope for a better tomorrow. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr S N AUGUST: Hon Chair, each year we pay tribute to the youth in June, but the truth is we will be paying lip service to the aspirations of our youth for as long as we don’t develop the social, spatial, economic and environment in which they feel empowered to reach their dreams; in which they can see beyond the false healings imposed by the day to day experience of poverty, indignity, squalor and insecurity; in which dropping out, drug taking and gangsterism are no longer the only easy available options; and in which children are allowed to develop as children, to grow to become caring and responsible adults who care about things that are in the public interest and justice.
Each year we commemorate the courage of the 1976 generation of youth which took on the responsibility to confront the wickedness of apartheid despite its weapons and contempt for people of colour. We make eloquent speeches while those with the power to make a difference make promises. And then July
comes and the cycle continues. The cycle of youth unemployment, marginalisation and alienation.
Chairperson, COVID-19 hasn’t helped anyone besides a few who benefitted from emergency public or private sector procurement. It certainly hasn’t helped young people who have suffered severe disruptions to social and family lives and education. It is said that the psychological impacts of the pandemic have been particularly hard felt by young people. It is estimated that around 74% of South African youth are unemployed and feeling desperate and abandoned.
In youth month and all other months these are the people we should be addressing, nurturing and embracing. Not this platitude and promises but real interventions that make a real difference. We do well to begin by listening to the youth and learn to speak their language and deepest concerns. I think they are tired of listening to us. Why wouldn’t they be when you consider their poisonous inheritance of inequality, corruption and climate change, just to name a few.
Chair, the faith of the country depends on empowering our youth to build prosperous futures that will help take South
Africa forward. That is the only real way to honour the class of 1976. I thank you.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Thank you, hon Chair. Chair, some of the speeches I am listening to – I am always amazed of the things we hear Chair. Let me start off by saying, an idle youth is a destructed youth. Which such a large percentage of unemployed youth in South Africa, it is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode.
I am not sure why everybody seems to attack just the ruling party. Maybe they should tell us, how many youth farmers has the DA created in the Western Cape? Maybe the other political parties that have so many municipalities that they govern in KwaZulu-Natal, and all over the country they should tell us what they have done for youth empowerment in their respective municipalities. Charity begins at home. It is very easy to come up here and attack, attack and attack. Give us some solutions. I hear my one colleague told me about free education, yes I don’t think the emphasis should on just free education Chair. It should be on quality free education because 60% of those that we fund Chair, drop out in the very first year. Can you see how much money you are actually losing?
Le t me go on one step further, we talk about diversity. Chair I heard the DA talk, we are a big diverse party. Maybe they should tell me what happened to Lindiwe Mazibuko, Mmusi Maimane, Ms Van Damme, Patricia de Lille, that is how diverse they are all these people of colour that have all been dismissed from the DA. I am not sure what diversity they are actually talking about Chair.
Let me go one step further Chair, there is no doubt about the fact that, the COVID-19 had an effect on jobs in South Africa. Let us not only put all the blame on COVID-19. Pre-COVID-19 we were already running into trouble as a result of the poor economic growth in South Africa. If it continues to in that way, what is simply going to happen, we are going to have a crisis in South Africa because most of the youth are going to remain unemployed. That is what we should holistically as all political parties, be coming together and find a solution to how we could create a conducive environment to create jobs for the youth in South Africa.
Coming here and just finding faults and attacking and doing nothing despite us governing and having an opportunity to governing many areas in the country, is not going to solve the problem that we are sitting with right now. I have said this
and I want to say it again, if you go to the rural KwaZulu- Natal Chair, most of those people are unemployed. What are the municipalities and these people and that are governing there doing? Nothing!
I am here to see progress in these - even in the Western Cape, I am here to see DA empowering the youth particularly in the field of agriculture where on most of the farms they access very little or nothing. As far as the NFP is concerned, we need to work together with the youth, create a conducive environment. We should put less stringent conditions and particularly put emphasis on the banks to be able to provide funding for these small businesses, particularly with youth that want to get in the field of business, so that together with the systems of government they will be able to succeed.
Chair, the success is not only on money, it is also on empowering them with ... [Time Expired.] Thank you very much Chair.
Mr L M NTSHAYISA: Thank you very much hon Chair. June 16 1976 will always be in the minds of many when South Africa’s politics reached a turning point and watershed. The youth took it upon themselves to liberate this country from the bondage and the yoke of oppression and apartheid. The whole world
experienced great shock for the innocent children of Soweto were killed by the apartheid regime.
Chair, we celebrating this day knowing very well that, the youth of 1976 contributed a lot to the freedom of this country. They totally rejected having Afrikaans as a medium of instruction at schools. However, it is now time for the youth of today to use their power to grow the economy of our country even in the mist of COVID-19.
Unemployment in particular should be the new target and the first one to be tackled. Chair, even under these prevailing conditions of COVID-19, something has got to be done to grow the economy of our beloved country so as to bring an end to unemployment. Let the young people now talk of economic freedom. Therefore, the relevant curriculum at schools is needed so that we can grow this country economically.
Chair however, the issue of racism in our schools especially those that were known to be model C schools, is a disturbing factor. It is not in line with growing economy of our country, it should be stopped. The youth of 1976 contributed politically to the freedom of this country. we therefore expect the youth of today to do the same. If it was possible
for the youth of 1976, it can still be possible for the youth of today, to contribute economically to the country, that is to achieve the economic freedom, so that, we do away with the schools that are not being part in the inclusive education and economy.
Chair, it cannot be correct that 20 years down the line of democracy we still talk of racism and excluding the blacks in the economy. It is important that our students or learners, the youth should be skilled so that they develop the economy and ship the future of this country. The child is the father of the man.
IsiXhosa:
Inkunzi isematholeni.
English:
We have to concentrate on youth and develop them to the highest position. The youth must be skilled so that they will be in a position to fight crime, gender-based violence, unemployment, poverty, and inequality.
Chair, the abuse and bullying at schools cannot be regarded as something that is in line with the growing of the economy, it
must be stopped. The pathetic event of a learner who took her life due to humiliation by another one, is very much hurting to think about it. We need thing that will grow ... [Time Expired.] Thank you very much Chair.
Sepedi:
Moh C M PHIRI: Modulasetulo wa Ngwako , ntumelele ke lot?he bahlomphegi bao ba lego ka mo Ntlong ye, ke be ke lot?he Ma- Afrika-Borwa nageng ka bophara - kudukudu ke lebi?it?e madume a ka go baswa ba Afrika-Borwa, ka gobane t?at?i la lehono re tla be re bolela ka bona. Ga se ke tlele go ngongorega, goba go tlo fa polelo yeo e senago mohola. Rena bjale ka mokgatlo wa badimo le batho, re tlile go bolela ka mananeo ao re nago le wona. Let?at?ing la lehono nke le ntumeleleng le lena Maloko a Palamente gore re tle re bolele ka ...
English:
... the struggle for the national liberation has always been about creating a democratic order in which our people are able to realise their aspirations. The creation of a better life for all is an objective of our struggle for radical socioeconomic transformation. The transformation of our society is important through addressing patriarchy, racism and building the nation in addressing the injustices of the past.
Sepedi:
Kgwedi ye ya baswa, re swanet?e go gopola bagale bao ba gafet?eng maphelo a bona dintweng t?eo di fetilego, t?eo ba bego ba gatelet?we ke mmu?o wa aparteiti. Ntumelele ke be ke ye ka kua Venda ke re ...
Tshivenda:
... ri fanela u lingedza nga nungo dzo?he u shandukisa kuhumbulele kwa vhathu na u shandukisa nyimele ya tshiimo tsha matshilele na ikonomi kha lushaka lwashu, zwihulusa kha vhaswa. Arali ra sa shandukisa kuhumbulele, vhukunzi - ndi amba vha?a vha no ?iita vha maan?a – tshi?alula, u ?alula nga mbeu, nga vhubvo, na nga vhushaka ha vhudzekani, zwi do dzula zwi hone zwitshavhani zwashu, zwa wanala na zwikoloni.
Mudzulatshidulo, vha ?o zwi humbula zwa mafhungo a tshikolo tsha n?ha tsha ngei Vhembe; Mbilwi, ho vha na zwithu zwi sa takadzi. Mugudiswa ane a vhidzwa nga dzina ?a Lufuno Mavhunga o dzhia vhutshilo hawe. Muya wawe u e?ele nga mulalo. Ri lingedza nga n?ila dzo?he uri ri shandukise nyimele idzi uri vhana vhashu vha bve kha mafhungo a u ?iita vhoramavili kana u ?iita khunzi. Mudzulatshidulo ...
English:
... as we enter the youth month, one needs to mention that on many occasions, the youth has been referred to as the custodians of the future and the leaders of tomorrow. However, it remains a call for concern that some still do not fully apprehend the weight of the challenge they’ve been charged with. and the youth bulge can be both a source of great prosperity or great insecurity.
South Africa remains one of the countries with more of a younger population, and we have the responsibility to seize the unique opportunity of having a growing young population because they are our biggest asset to tackle the many challenges ahead, but the current erratic nature of such a high economically disenfranchised population that is more often perceived as threatening should remain a great concern now more than ever as we celebrate this youth month.
We need to respond to the urgent call of how to deploy them to serve as dividend and not a danger as is commonly dreaded to realise their prosperity. They must indeed be prioritised on the national socioeconomic agenda and be creatively deployed through productive and decolonised primary and higher education system, a freedom to explore the labour market
throughout the length and breadth of our country, the African continent and a self-starting sense amongst the youth.
One of the greatest assets of today’s youth is its talent. Young people in south Africa today have seized the opportunities of having been termed the talent economy where they transform their talent into profitable commodities in many fronts and sectors, and with the limitless possibilities brought about by technology, their talents are increasingly becoming their trades.
Therefore, one of the ways in which we can create prospects for young people in South Africa is for the government to continue creating an enabling environment and intensifying support programmes to enable them to have opportunities to deploy their talents because for as long as they are economic magnets, young people will most definitely go there and will surely make South Africa great.
Hon members, while we continue to gauge the full impact of COVID-19 in South Africa, it is clear that there are both causes for concern and opportunities for positive change. Beyond its health impact, the pandemic is already having severe socioeconomic consequences, including in terms of
increased unemployment, loss of income, and wealth depletion. At the same time, it has demonstrated the increased importance of digital technology worldwide to responding effectively to crises and planning for recovery. This global crisis, therefore, also has the potential to accelerate South Africa’s digital transformation and to create decent and resilient digital jobs in the country.
In the words of Dr Martin Luther King, Jr, which I quote:
One of the greatest liabilities of history is that too many people fail to remain awake through great periods of social change. Every society has its protectors of the status quo, and its fraternities of the indifference who are notorious for sleeping through the revolution. Today, our survival depends on our ability to be awake, to adjust to new ideas, to remain vigilant, and to face the challenges of change.
As we celebrate this month in the year of Charlotte Maxeke, young people are called upon to listen to the words of Martin Luther King, Jr. They are called to be alive to these changing times in our society and continue to be part of shaping our nation’s new ways of living amidst COVID-19. We are encouraged
of the stories of some young women in country who rises above their circumstances to use their talents to take their place in the talent economy and make great trade.
Hon Speaker, I speak about Ms Aretha Charles, who owns Uhuru Development, which is involved in renewable energy projects in the rural village of the Eastern Cape and one of the youngest participants in industrial renewable energy production in the country. Her solar project in Mbizana, in Alfred Nzo district has not only brought the much-needed electrification to 1 000 households, but as the Minister has already alluded, she has also subcontracted two fellow youth companies through an incubation programme in renewable energy.
I speak of Hlayisani Sono, commonly known as “Mhani Buildara” in the rural village of Valdezia in Limpopo who continues to make great strides in the construction industries and shows all and sundry that there is nothing impossible for the girl child. We are encouraged by the support she continues to receive from both government and the private sector. She remains a true personification of the spirit of Mama Charlotte Maxeke. [Applause.]
I speak of the Youth Choir, which has used entertainment to raise awareness on COVID-19. Their arts may seem like a luxury at a time of crisis when, in fact, performance can be part of the solution. Some of the young people used their creative talents to support the COVID-19 response. The novel nature of the virus has caused a spread of speculation and unverified information regarding the virus’ spread, symptoms and potential treatments. They composed performed and filmed a musical rendition of the World Health Organization’s, WHO, coronavirus safety advice, featuring translations of certain key points in various languages of our country. They composed their song to ensure that the various communities in our country were well informed and saved ... [Time expired.] ...
Aluta continua. Eh, hon House Chairperson, we condemn as the ANC what happened to the Pan African Parliament. Thanks.
Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon House Chair, during 1976 the youth of the Cape Flats and all over South Arica played a major role in the fight against apartheid. As we grabbled with Covid-19, we had to capitalised on the eagerness of the youth and the ability to learn and acquire new skills. [Interjections.]
When we learn that Ministers and Deputy Ministers are willing to access Members of Parliament to address the needs of their
constituency away to the Mapani Village near Umtata to have a forest and they have an ocean. I spoke to the youth and I spoke to young fisherman and they say that they form the co- operative and they need a fishing boat
I engaged with the Deputy Minister of Small Business and Development and they are now busy trying to get a fishing boat for these youngsters.
So, it is up to Members of Parliament during constituency week and month to go out and ensure they can get what they can do for the youth not come to this House and speak about failures. It is good that the official opposition parties bring young people to Parliament and look forward to these young people, make positive contributions to assist youth and not to delay the freedom that President Nelson Mandela speak about by supporting Zionist titulus and occupiers that will never reach their freedom and bring these young people to Parliament doesn’t not serve its purpose.
Doctor Archie Mafig spoke about during the 16 and he said the children did it while many people try to claim credit about what happened during 1976. He made it clear in his exam studies that children did it and so we feel that our youth can
do it and that’s why Al Jama-ah is working closely with government departments to see how we can implement the policies in spite of the constraints on funding. That’s what one must do.
Opposition parties knowing that there is a problem with youth unemployment must go out and see how they can assist now that the government Ministers and Deputy Ministers are prepared to help Members of Parliament serving constituencies.
We are going to speak to Basic Education Department and tell them that they need to introduce Grade 13 and 14. It is no longer necessary to go to the university in the new digital revolution that we are in and the jobs is going to rise up to with digital revolution
You can do university education online. We don’t need that, we don’t need university and we don’t need bursaries. That must go to Basic Education to prepare our youth to get the jobs of the future. The Department of Communications, we will go to them and tell them that look young people want smart phone.
They want an Ipad and get money out Higher Education, don’t
waste money on fruitless expenditure.
In the UK already, we find that Basic Education and post matric education has been collapsed into 14 years not 15 and
16 years preparing young people. South Africa mustn’t lack behind the UK and other countries to prepare our youth for digital revolution.
As Al Jama-ah, we are working and going out and trying to do something not coming to this Parliament and criticise government departments and criticise the ruling party. We want to play a constructive role and we recognise the youth of 1976 like of Archie Mafig. Thank you very much, hon House Chair
Ms H S WINKLER: Covid-19 has been a ruthless teacher but had hidden its lessons. We have a unique opportunity in our post Covid-19 economic recovery to effect the script. In 2015 South Africa adopted the 2030 United Nations Sustainable Development Goals a long side African readers to address humanity challenges in survival.
A key take away is that we must approach economic development with our minds to the inclusion of the economically decentralise different franchise of which young people disproportion they have a burden was navigating coexistent with the natural world
The Covid-19 pandemic and climate change are harsh reminders of this. It is our collective a substantial challenge to overcome if we had to flourish, 3,3 million young South Africans between the ages of 15 and 24 are unemployed and not in educational training. This government has allowed 32,4% of young South Africans to fall to the cracks and this Covid-19 has exacerbated unemployment but the youth job crisis raise the pandemic, yet ... [Inaudible] ...
As part of a Sustainable Development Goal one ....
[Inaudible.] ... economic growth and job creation has been identified as a transition to a growing economy. The growth and creation of foreign investment actually undergo a green transition and other sectors who create amount of new skills and labour of an education and training opportunities training of valuable skills decides, technology, engineering and mathematics unlocking innovation and entrepreneurship for thousands of young people.
It will also mean well trained decent jobs in a new automatic sector, construction and ecotourism just to name a few that absorbing young people who were previously locked out by the structure of South African economy and poor economic growth.
As a signatory to the Paris Agreement on Climate Change, South Africa has already made a commitment to decolonisation. This energy transition could create up to 1,6 million new jobs by 2050 in a renewable sector. However, the shift away from a cavern intended economy is spiteful by a haste regular to environment tthroug Hugo, poor policy and lack of forward political leadership.
Starting the same date in economic policies over and over again expectation that they are going to manifest jobs for young people if a definition of ... [Inaudible.] ... be bold show leadership and rewrite the tragic nurture of young South Africans.
A green economy has a potential not only to favour generation but also the planet for many future generations. No lesson should be in vain. Now we are studying in a dark because of load shedding whilst delivering my speech. [Applause.]
Mr T V MASHELE: Hon Chair, members of the executive, hon members, ladies and gentlemen ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Is that the hon Mashele?
Mr T V MASHELE: Yes, Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Mashele?
Mr T V MASHELE: Yes, Chair?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Okay, go ahead hon member.
Mr T V MASHELE: Fellow South Africans, on an occasion like this one it is important to tap into the intellectual faculties of Chinua Achebe, who warned us that if you find water rising at your ankle, that is the time that you must do something, not when the water is around your neck.
You will agree with me that apartheid South Africa acted with agency to deal with water before it reached the ankles of white people but allowed water to reach the necks of the majority of black people who were treated as subcitizens in their own country.
Young people in South Africa are continuing to inspire hope and are a driving force towards change; a change for a better South Africa; a change towards renewal; a change towards bolstering the fight against corruption and maladministration. Yes, there are challenges which are exacerbated by the COVID-
19 global pandemic; however, young people remain determined to change the status quo. Self-determination, the acquiring of knowledge, innovation, activism, the self-championing of youth empowerment and militancy have become the hallmarks of today’s young people. We must broaden the collective understanding of motive forces and analyse their contribution towards social transformation and the empowerment of young people. This will help to break the economic inequalities of the past.
In pursuit of economic freedom for young people, one of the major ingredients ... [Inaudible.] ... towards its attainment remains the sufficient capital investment for youth initiatives, both in the public and private sectors. Amid these barriers, President Cyril Ramaphosa has intervened and made strides towards the fulfilment of the empowerment of young people. This is not only sloganeering but it is a practical demonstration of initiatives spearheaded to empower young people across the country. These interventions have given rise to a number of young people who have succeeded in areas like farming, where their participation in the past was nonexistent. We have seen some becoming forces in innovation and agriculture, contributing towards food security.
It is so inspiring to read great stories of 27-year-old Thato Moagi from Modimolle in Limpopo, who at her age won awards and who has now become a commercial agricultural farmer. She is the managing director of LeGae La Banareng Farms, which is a mixed farming operation of livestock, potatoes as well as maize crops.
We also marvelled at reading about the successful story of 20- year-old Yonela Ndzoboyi from Bizana in the Eastern Cape, who owns Lencolin Green Project which harvested 20 000kg of potatoes last year. Indeed, this is encouraging.
The ANC-led government continues to champion its resolution for our people to own land. To date, government has redistributed over 5 million hectares of land to more than
300 000 beneficiaries. It is our wish that, going forward, the majority of these beneficiaries should be skilled young people who should work and produce food for our people. We are happy that government, through the technology innovation programme, committed to invest R3,9 billion in the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework towards the production of new knowledge and development, and the commercialisation of technology.
Some political parties represented in this House frown upon acquiring knowledge. They don’t value matters of education and innovation; hence, they make a noise now when we speak about education. Some of their leaders even bestowed upon themselves qualifications that they do not have or do not hold. Yet, they have appointed themselves as paragons of knowledge while they are just plagiarisers of note. Some hon members were forced to publicly dispute ever pronouncing themselves as graduates. We urge young people to continue making education fashionable.
The ANC-led government will continue to invest billions of rand towards free and quality education for students from poor and working-class backgrounds. We have a government that understands that an investment in education is a direct investment towards the future of this country. The National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, has increased more than fivefold in the last six years, from R5,9 billion in 2014 to R34,7 billion in 2020.
We continue to lower the water from the neck to below the ankle. This is evident by the fact that we now have a higher proportion of black South African students in universities than ever before. Seventy per cent of our black people are at universities today, compared to 49% in 1994. More students are attending university than ever before. Over 900 000 students were in our universities in 2020 compared to 385 000 in 1994. Black South African students make up the majority — of over 72% — of students, compared to 20% in 1980. The ANC government has definitely lowered the water from the neck to the ankle.
There are overnight messiahs imposing themselves as intellectuals, providing false solutions to the challenges that confront our people. They must be unmasked for who they are. These charlatans, whose preoccupation is power at all cost, do it at the expense of the suffering of our people. We call upon all progressive forces to rise above and occupy the space, and isolate these pickpockets. Together we can continue to work around the clock to lower the water that apartheid has left at our necks. We will continue to lower the water below our ankles in an effort to grow youth empowerment for an inclusive and transformed society. We carry ... our task inspired by President Thabo Mbeki who encouraged us that:
Gloom and despondency has never defeated adversity. Trying times need courage and resilience. Our strength as a people is not tested during the best of times. ... we should never become despondent because the weather is bad nor should we turn triumphalist because the sun shines.
To all young people of South Africa, you are the future. Democracy has made the possibilities to be limitless for yourselves. Let’s work together to create a better and prosperous South Africa, even during these difficult times of COVID.
Xitsonga:
Mutshamaxitulu, ndza khensa ku nyikiwa nkarhi wo ta yima haleno.
English:
... at this point in time. South Africa belongs to all of us who live in it. It is our responsibility to build it. It is our responsibility to make sure that we preserve it for the future generation. This is the only inheritance that we have, unlike these ones whose grandfathers looted millions and looted our farms in South Africa so that they inherit it. We have got nothing to give to our kids, outside South Africa.
Benjamin Burombo says, every time I must fight for African rights I must use one hand because the other hand must keep on pushing back my African brothers.
We have witnessed here today that these ones on my left decided to bring two of our African brothers to come and fight their own battles. Today we must come here and respond to our African brothers who are the beneficiaries of the systems that we have created as the ANC. [Applause.] They go to our universities, poach the beneficiaries of NSFAS, look at them during debates when they speak fluent English, and rent them in order to bring them to Parliament to come and defend their pockets.
Beneficiaries of apartheid will never lie down easily. We understand that they have accumulated. Hence today they have the courage to lampoon our brothers and sisters. We call upon all South Africans, young people in particular, to rise above and isolate these niggers. These house niggers have got nothing to offer to ...
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: On a point of order, Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Mashele, there is a point of order.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: House Chairperson, I might well be a white South African but never in my presence will that word be uttered or accepted anywhere where I or my party are. I demand that the member withdraws it and is referred to the Ethics Committee, and he will be receiving a note from me from the SA Human Rights Commission.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon member, I find no fault with that. Can you continue, hon Mashele?
Mr T V MASHELE: It will always be the case that when somebody feels the heat ... I never mentioned anyone, but if the shoe fits, wear it.
They have also rented someone who has left here. Everyday that one continually comes angry to the House, speaks and leaves.
She does not sit in committees to debate her issues. She believes that shouting at the top of her voice makes her a revolutionary. She must come home so that we can teach her proper politics. I thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The House adjourned at 19:07.