Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 17 Mar 2021

Summary

No summary available.

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Minutes

 

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY WEDNESDAY, 17 MARCH 2021

 

PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

 

Watch video here: PLENARY(HYBRID)

 

The House met at 15:03.

 

The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, good afternoon. As usual we remind you to stay in your seats preferably, and generally settle down. We will make a plan for later. We know sitting down for hours on end is not helpful for our health but please, in the interest of our safety, do that. Keep your mask on and cover your nose. Thank you.

The only item on today’s Order Paper is questions addressed to the Deputy President. There are four supplementary questions on each question. Parties have given an indication of which questions their members wish to pose. To pose a supplementary question adequate notice was given to parties for this purpose. This was done to facilitate participation of party members who are connecting through the virtual platform.

The members who will pose supplementary questions will be recognised by the presiding officer. In allocating opportunities for supplementary questions the principle of fairness has always been applied. If a member who is supposed to ask a supplementary question through the virtual platform is unable to do so due to technological difficulties, the Party Whip on duty in the House will be allowed to ask the question on behalf of the member. When all supplementary questions have been answered by the Deputy President, we will proceed to the next question on the Question Paper. The first question has been asked by the hon D M Hadebe.

 

Questions – Deputy President

Question 1:

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Deputy Speaker, before I start, allow me on behalf of the President and Cabinet to convey our deepest condolences to the Royal Family and all the people who are gathered in and around KwaNongoma to pay their last respect to the King. Our condolences also go to the entire Zulu nation for the loss of their King. May the soul of our King rest in peace! Thank you.

Hon Speaker, South Africa is one of the countries most adversely affected by the Covid-19 pandemic in Africa. By the end of November 2020, we accounted for the highest number of confirmed cases per capita with approximately 800 000 cumulative cases representing over a third i.e. 36% of the total cases on the continent.

In response - like most governments around the world - South Africa implemented a nationwide lockdown to prepare the necessary health infrastructure as well as to minimise the spread of the virus. The initial lockdown which began on 26 March 2020 lasted for five weeks which was relatively stringent even by international standards because it helped to contain the rapid spread of the virus.

Although the pandemic continues to pose risk to the public health, the nationwide lockdown was expected to lead to a substantial short-term and long-term economic costs, especially to sectors such as manufacturing and tourism. Official labour force data shows that approximately 2,2 million fewer people were employed in the second quarter of 2020 relative to the first, essentially raising the last 10 years of job growth in our economy.

Only a partial recovery can be observed in data from the third quarter of the year with employment down by 1,7 million, relative to pre-pandemic levels. For example, research during the lockdown by the University of Cape Town Development Policy Research Unit suggests that job losses have been concentrated among a range of already-vulnerable groups. Particularly, this has affected individuals in the poorest households, less skilled and low-wages informal workers with transient employment or persistent nonemployment history and those living in poor communities and most particularly, women.

This is not unique to our country as labour markets across the world were also heavily affected with those at the bottom rung of the social ladder most adversely affected. As the world reeled from the emergence of the Covid-19 pandemic, the South African government moved rapidly to mitigate the expected health, social and economic effects of the pandemic. For instance, government offered a range of support measures including social relief of R350 per month to individuals who are currently unemployed, and which has recently been extended.

In addition to the measures pertaining to the stimulus plan, government extended the special Covid-19 Grant and Temporary Employer-Employee Relief Scheme benefits. To date, over R50 billion has been paid to workers over 13 million payments. A further R15,8 billion is projected to be spent as the benefit is extended.

 

The Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF continues to pay statutory benefits as per the department’s mandate. An Interest Make-Up Scheme to assist companies in financial distress while sustaining existing jobs and productive capacity has also been launched by the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition even though this is not sufficient, given the current fiscal constraints.

 

 

The interventionist approach that government has adopted will go a long way in providing a cushion against the chilly winds of poverty. Hence, the government places a great deal of emphasis on employment stimulus, ramping up investment opportunities and identifying new sources of growth through various sectoral master plans that are structured on the basis of social compacting. These specific measures are aimed at improving productivity, investment and competitiveness.

 

The implementation of the Poultry Master Plan, for instance, is already bearing fruit in driving economic growth and job creation where 428 jobs have been created from over

R735 million of new investment. Similarly, hon Deputy Speaker, in the sugar industry about R1 billion has been set aside over five years towards industry transformation in order to remedy the inequalities especially experienced by black sugarcane growers.

 

 

 

These social-compacting initiatives are anchored on aggressive infrastructure investment where over R250 billion was set aside for water and sanitation, transport, human settlement and strategic integrated projects with the expected creation of 300 000 new jobs into the economy.

 

 

On the energy security, 2 600 megawatts from renewable energy will be finalised this year under Bid Window 5. These measures are aimed at facilitating competitive and inclusive economy as outlined in the Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan.

 

 

On the question of the adequacy of the Budget to fund antipoverty measures and initiatives in the current environment of fiscal constraint, we are confident that R12,6 billion allocated to employment stimulus is adequate.

 

Major benefits will come through economic activities that these resources seek to ignite - some practical interventions and skills development where training will be extended to young people particularly women who have lost their jobs or are redundant.

 

 

As mentioned earlier, the Covid-19 pandemic had a major impact on the tourism sector. As a response, the Department of Tourism, in partnership with the private sector, has developed Tourism Sector Recovery Plan which will soon be presented to Cabinet for approval. The plan outlines a set of interventions aimed at igniting the recovery anchored on three strategic themes, namely, protecting and rejuvenating supply; reigniting demand; and strengthening and enabling capability for long- term sustainability. We are confident that with this intervention the sector and its entire value chain will be resuscitated.

 

 

We admit that under the current environment of fiscal constraint the reduced Budget tabled by the Minister can never be sufficient to address all our socioeconomic challenges which are facing our country and further compounded by the Covid-19 pandemic. However, we do believe that the interventions listed earlier will go a long way towards

 

mitigating the negative socioeconomic impact of the pandemic on lives and livelihoods.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Deputy President, just one second. Khosi Mkhonto, please switch off your mic. And you are a repeat offender. You are repeatedly having your mic open. I don’t understand why you don’t learn some vigilant tactics at least to ensure that you switch it off, please! Once is adequate to make those mistakes but you can’t do it so repeatedly. Thank you, Deputy President. Please go ahead.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. I am done. [Applause.]

 

 

Mr B H HADEBE: Thank you, hon Deputy President for your detailed and substantive response. It’s much appreciated. I am speaking to the Deputy President. Please behave yourself.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no, don’t address them, please! Don’t start. You are also encouraging them. [Interjections.] [Laughter.] Thokozile, please switch off your mic. You are disrupting the House. Chief Whips in the House, please talk to your members. You see them regularly. Please talk to them. You

 

surely notice who these people are. You can phone and talk to them. They are really disruptive. Go ahead, ntate.

 

 

Mr B H HADEBE: Deputy President, in your view as the Leader of Government Business, what could have been an impact on the country and the poor had government not proactively intervened with these measures? Thank you. [Interjections.]

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, I think the lockdown initiatives have assisted the country. Firstly, to raise the necessary awareness that there is a virus. Everyone in the country got to know why the lockdown – it’s because there is a virus, and that virus could be transmitted from person to person. That’s one advantage of the lockdown. Of course, it was severe but people in the country got to know that there was this pandemic that was coming. Secondly, we had to buy time to prepare our health infrastructure so that when we open we can be ready to assist our people. Thirdly, I think the lockdown initiatives assisted to reduce the spread because we have minimised movement and interaction between people. So, the spread of the virus was slowed down. I think those were the benefits of the lockdown intervention – lockdown level 5, level 4, level 3 and down to level 1. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Mr G G HILL-LEWIS: Mr Deputy President, when one looks at the detail of the Budget that was tabled, it is difficult to reconcile the details therein with the answer you’ve just given around the suitability of the Budget to fighting and alleviating poverty. If one looks at the detail, we are cutting R31 billion over the next three years from the social grants budget to care for the most vulnerable in our society. We are cutting R700 million from the major hospitals budget including a specific cut of R300 million from emergency medical services, i.e. ER emergency rooms at our major hospitals. There is a significant cut in the budget for primary teaching which will result in school class sizes growing particularly in rural provinces.

 

 

This has led to a quite extraordinary situation. It is the first time I have seen this. Perhaps you have seen it before but I have not; where the Fiscal and Financial Commission, FFC has said the Budget may be unconstitutional because it is so deleterious to the basic rights guaranteed to the poor in our Constitution. So, my question to you, sir, is: Do you wish to revise the answer that you have just given about the suitability of the Budget to the poor?

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Hill-Lewis, you have overstretched your time by 23 seconds.

 

 

Mr G G HILL-LEWIS: I have asked my question. Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please, nobody should follow this bad example in the House. [Interjections.] No one, please! Go ahead, ntate.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No, I don’t think I should revise the answer. [Applause.] I should state the answer. Though I understand the fiscal constraint and the environment that we are under, we are in this environment not because of our own making. We were just talking about the lockdown initiatives that we have initiated as a country in order to protect life. But of course, in the process livelihood had to suffer. I am quite aware that a lot of our people lost employment and a lot of our companies closed down because of these stringent measures.

 

 

Cabinet had a very difficult exercise to find a balance between protecting lives and protecting livelihoods. I think we have emerged out of this storm and we must thank our people for really assisting Cabinet in adhering to the interventions

 

that Cabinet and the President – from time to time – had to declare because we were faced with a situation. This was a war and we have lost too many people as a country. We are now out of this situation. We must now pick up the pieces and move on.

 

 

The Budget is a very difficult Budget but I must say, the President came here and presented a plan – a recovery plan – to say in the middle of this situation, we should not despair. Here is a plan. We have a plan to try and get our Eskom right and have sufficient energy. We have a plan to create and roll back all the jobs that we have lost and create employment.

 

 

We have a plan to try and open small businesses. All the companies that have lost their market which have closed down should be assisted to stand up again. We are in that plan.

Well, the employment stimulus, for example, has assisted more than 350 000 young people who went and assisted in our schools as teacher assistants. That information is available.

 

 

So, it is not all doom and gloom. Yes, in terms of our revenue, we have gone down understandably so because a lot of companies have closed down and people were at home. We were trying to limit the spread of the virus. And you can see that the pandemic had different impact on different countries.

 

There are countries which have suffered a lot maybe because of how they handled the spread of the virus. There are countries which have survived and continue to survive.

 

 

We are now at the point where vaccines are beginning to be rolled out and we think this could be the final battle against the virus. If we succeed with this one, we are out of the problem. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

Mnu M N NXUMALO: Ngiyathokoza kakhulu Sekela Somlomo, ngibingelele iSekela likaMengameli, nina beSilo ngiyabingelela, bengifisa ukuthi nje lungu elihloniphekile Sekela LikaMengameli izinombolo zabantu abasha kakhulu ezaziqedwa kukhishwa phakathi kawOkthoba noDisemba ngonyaka owedlule ziyakutshengisa ukuthi intsha yakithi yiyona eshayeke kakhulu kulesi simo sokungakhulu komnotho kakhulu futhi ngalesi sikhathi kuneCOVID-19.

 

 

Manje siyafisa ukwazi njengentsha emelwe la ePhalamende eNingizimu Afrika, nesimele intsha yonke yaseNingizimu Afrika ukuthi iyiphi indlela uhulumeni eseyikhandile ezokwazi ukuthi ikakhulukazi ukungenelela akwenzayo kube ngeqondane ngqo nokulekelelwa kwabantu abasha, ikakhulu okuyilaba

 

abasebeqedile ezikoleni abahlezi emakhaya namajazi, kube asebephumile futhi emisebenzini kulesikhathi samanje?

 

 

Ngiphethe Sekela Somlomo umuntu akalincome iSekela likaMengameli ngokuthi ngesikhathi kokuvalwa qatha kwezwe libe yisibonelo ngendlela yokuthi lingabonakali nje. Siyathokoza ukuthi namhlanje silibone liphila iSekela likaMongameli. [Uhleko.]

 

 

ISEKELA LIKAMONGAMELI: Ngiyabonga, manje ke uma sishaya umthetho kufanele kube yithina esiwugcinayo. Thina ke esinezifo ezinye kufanele sizibhekelele kakhulu, silalele futhi nomthetho. Singaloku sihamba nje, sizibhekelele.

Yingakho namhlanje sinani la kule ndawo. Ukuphendula umbuzo, ziningi izindlela esizame ukuthi sifinyelele kubantu abasha. Njengoba ubona u-Statistician wethule izinombolo la zabantu abasha, abangasebenzi. Abantu abasha abalahlekelwe umsebenzi, sishilo la ukuthi asikhethanga muntu. Ngalesikhathi salo bhubhane uMongameli uyewanikela ngesibonelelo sikahulumeni sama-R350 kuwo wonke umuntu ukuthi abantu baphile. Ngaphezu kwalokho futhi uMongameli ukhiphe imali ayibiza ngokuthi yi- Stimulus Package. Leso Stimulus Package sizise kakhulu abantu abasha. Ngishilo ngathi kunabantwana abadlulile eBangeni leshumi, abafundile abangasebezi. Inamba ithi ayidlule ema-

 

500 000 abantwana abaye baqasheka ezikoleni ukuthi basize othisha. Njengoba sikhuluma labo bantwana basezikoleni zonke, chithi saka – yimizamo leyo.

 

 

Uhulumeni futhi ngaso Stimulus package uyewazama ukuthi avuselele Ezokuvakasha ngokusiza abantwana abahlezi ukuthi baqeqeshwe amakhono abo. Baqeqeshwe kakhulu ku-hospitality, bathi uma beqeqeshwa babe bethola i-stipend ngoba sibona ukuthi lo mkhakha weZokuvakasha ushayeke kakhulu ngesikhathi zokuvalwa phaqa kwezwe. Asigoqanga izandla nje, uNgqongqoshe wezamaBhizinisi Amancane uzamile ukuthi izimboni ezihola ngabantu abasha sizakale. Izimboni eziningi zivaliwe kodwa eziningi siziphephisile ukuthi zivalwe. [Ihlombe.].

Sizoqhubeka futhi ukuthi sibasize abantu abasha ukuthi bazivule lezi zimboni sibasekele ukuya phambili. Sisazobheka kule-recovery plan ukuthi njengoba isimo sabantu abasha siya ngokushuba, yini okunye okufanele sikwenze. Ngibonge kakhulu.

 

 

Ms H DENNER: Deputy President, with regard to the planned antipoverty interventions and specifically the planned employment stimulus package announced by President Ramaphosa during Sona speech as one of government’s priority interventions - as you have mentioned as well - the President specifically said the stimulus package will be to create jobs

 

and support livelihoods through relationships between the public and private sectors. Can you supply details on exactly what this relationship between the public and private sectors will entail, and confirm whether or not scathing remarks and scapegoating of the private sector by members of Cabinet such as the Minister of Employment and Labour will be conducive to such a relationship especially and ironically, with regard to employment creation?

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: In terms of our recovery plan, the Minister of Trade, Industry and Competition has developed almost four master plans. These master plans are around food security, rural development, sugar and poultry. Those sectors are going to be supported through the stimulus package.

 

 

One master plan has to deal with a labour-intensive sector, retail, clothing, textile, footwear and leather. That is one sector plan that is going to be supported by this stimulus package. One sector plan deals with car manufacturing which is going to be extended and is doing well in the country. You’ve seen the President opening one in Tshwane, the Ford manufacturing plant. All those are meant to create over

500 000 direct jobs but this is not going to happen overnight.

 

It is a process.

 

Coming from where we come from, we need to work hard every day to reclaim our space again. Thank you very much.

 

 

Question 2:

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker. This past week we’ve shared with the members of the National Council of Provinces the same matter of mitigating risks and potential corruption in the acquisition, distribution and rollout of coronavirus disease 2019, Covid-19, vaccines. We can report here, Deputy Speaker, as well that as the Inter-Ministerial Committee on Covid-19 vaccines, we have developed a Corruption Risk Mitigation Plan as one of the oversight mechanisms in the implementation of the Covid-19 vaccination plan. The Inter- Ministerial Committee, IMC, has sought to identify potential risks in the procurement of vaccines, of which we then adopted mitigation strategies required to address such risks.

 

 

In our view, procurement risk is greater when there are multiple purchasers and suppliers with no uniformity of quality and effectiveness of the product as it was the case with the procurement of personal protective equipment at the outbreak of this pandemic. On the contrary, in the acquisition of the Covid-19 vaccines, there is limited room for such corruptions as the market is highly regulated, with few

 

manufacturers. Further to this, the product has to pass the stringent quality assessment by the regulator, and the procurement is centralised at a national level for the ease of monitoring. There would also be no need for any additional procurement at the level of provinces, as they have limited function in terms of distribution, which is determined by national. Consequently, provinces would have to use the selected service providers and existing distribution mechanisms and arrangements for medicines which are already in place.

 

 

Let us remind the honourable House that these measures have been adopted and are being implemented in line with the Terms of Reference of the IMC on Covid-19 vaccines. In this specific instance, the IMC is enjoined to put in place measures to prevent corruption and wasteful expenditure in the procurement and distribution of vaccines. Where nondisclosure agreements may be used to hide corruption, constitutional oversight bodies such as the Auditor-General of South Africa will have access to such nondisclosure agreements for probity audit. In addition, to the Auditor-General law enforcement agencies are doing their work on intelligence-driven measures of combating crime, fraud and corruption through the Fusion Centre. These measures will enable us to deliver a successful vaccination

 

plan and limit any possible corruption, whilst enabling South Africa to utilise this opportunity to grow local manufacturing capability, in line with our industrial policy as a country.

 

 

Our government agenda has been stated right at the beginning, that we do not only want to acquire these vaccines as manufactured elsewhere, but we intend to locally manufacture them. As a country, we have the necessary expertise and infrastructure, and are confident of our capability to locally produce the life-saving Covid-19 vaccines, and associated technologies for the development of vaccines for future pandemics. For us to be successful in such aspirations, we must also counter activities such as the production of sub- standard or falsified vaccines.

 

 

In this regard, we have put in place the following measures: All vaccine centres will be published on various platforms, for all our citizens to have access to this information, and we are working on increasing the number of testing laboratories to expedite quality assurance of all vaccines produced. All suppliers will be requested to produce regulatory certificates to buyers, providing a unique identifier on the delivery of the vaccines and online verification of that certificate.

 

Furthermore, we have through the communication work stream of the IMC, developed a public awareness campaign to conscientise the public on the dangers of utilising unregistered vaccine centres. There are also webinars and radio programmes that are being utilised to engage various stakeholders on vaccine corruption risks, as well as in how we could jointly implement mitigation measures with our communities. Communication of detection and prosecution of any corruption will be done on a regular basis to enhance transparency and public accountability.

 

 

Ultimately, hon Deputy Speaker, we are confident of the effectiveness of the plans we have made and the measures we have put in place to combat any form of corruption. This includes queue jumping that has been reported widely in the media as one of the risks. The most important intervention at this phase, which is only targeted at health care workers, is to require those being inoculated to produce proof of employment. This means that people cannot jump the queue by falsely claiming to be frontline workers in the health care sector. We have also limited people’s ability to alter their work places once registered for vaccination as this is another potential strategy that queue-jumpers could use. In this instance, the use of the Electronic Vaccine Data System seeks

 

to ensure that the right people are vaccinated as per the relevant phase.

 

 

Together, we must ensure that we tackle any acts of corruption that take advantage of the plight of our people. We have a duty to defeat the coronavirus and ensure the enjoyment of life and dignity for all as outlined in the Bill of Rights.

That is why, hon Deputy Speaker, we have activated whistleblowing mechanisms through existing hotlines such as the Presidential Hotline, the Anticorruption Hotline hosted by the Public Service Commission, and the whistleblowing hotline of the Special Investigating Unit for the broader public to play their part in the prevention and combating of corruption.

 

 

Our social partners at the National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, interfaith leaders and traditional leaders are central to the public awareness campaign, which will raise the necessary public awareness to the number of people taking vaccines including reporting corruption where it manifests itself. Already, we are mobilising public support for the vaccination programme, using all official languages on national, community, regional and commercial radio stations.

Further, we will make use of all communication platforms across the length and breadth of our country including in

 

rural communities, to ensure that every citizen, no matter their location in the country is reached with these messages. Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker.

 

 

Mr G G HILL-LEWIS: Deputy Speaker, the hon Mazzone is unavailable today, so I’m handling the question.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I was almost saying that you are not her.

 

It’s okay, go ahead.

 

 

Mr G G HILL-LEWIS: Deputy President, we must all together tackle any instance of corruption, I just want to focus on that quote from your answer now. ... [Inaudible.] ... investigative of journalist team have uncovered or revealed allegations of legit inappropriate links between hon Minister of Health and a company called Digital Vibes for a contract amounting to R82 million appointed by the Department of Health to help with vaccine rollout media. Ms Naadhira Mitha, Mr Tahera Mather and Ms Yenzi Sokhela all worked for the hon Minister in his 2017 ANC internal election campaign and now work for Digital Vibes. Ms Makhosazana Mthethwa is an ANC staff member who also works for a Foundation called Ikusasa Le Afrika which is the personal foundation of the hon Minister of

 

Health. All of these people are now involved in this R82 million tender.

 

 

Now, to the extent there is a credible vaccine rollout programme, something which I must say is a matter for a debate, but not for today. It is public support for that programme, it’s critically undermined by revelations like this. Therefore, going back to your quote, Deputy President, I wanted would you give the country and this House an assurance that you will take these allegations extremely seriously. Can you tell us what you are doing as Deputy President to investigate them and give us the assurance that if there is any truth to these allegations that the Minister will be removed from office immediately? Thank you. [Applause.]

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. Remember that I’m Deputy President and I’m working in the office of the President. Once a President respond on a matter, that is the response of the Presidency. Therefore, I will elect not to comment on a matter that the President has commented. Because the comment of the President is my comment. Now, the Minister of Health has spoken to the President and explain himself in the whole matter. The Special Investigating Unit is on the matter. So, we leave it like that up until this investigating

 

unit comes out with the findings. Then we will take it up from there. That was the response that was given by the President. I’m just repeating that response.

 

 

Therefore, the kind of information that you have, I can hear you are naming people’s names and all that, maybe it can be useful to the investigating unit. Don’t you think you must present that to the unit? [Applause.] It can assist because all of us must try and assist in this case. However, with the vaccine, there are limited manufacturers and there are agreements that are signed, prices might differ we negotiate, we finalise and we pay, they deliver. Now, in our case we are still storing our vaccine in a Biovac facility in Midrand, where we are partly owning those facilities. Tomorrow I’ll be visiting some of the facilities in Cape Town where they manufacture vaccines. As government, we are partly owning that facility and we want to increase our stay so that we are a majority shareholder in that so that we lead in this project of developing our own vaccine capability. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

Dkt S M DHLOMO: Ngiyabonga Sekela Somlomo, Sehela likaMongameli ...

 

English:

 

... as a Chairperson of the IMC, are you satisfied that all provincial plans are realistic in helping government to reach the intended target of 67% of vaccination of the population, and also if you are satisfied that immobilisation of traditional leaders, tradition healers, faith-based organisations and all civil society leaders has been well-done in all provinces to lead our communities in accessing vaccine when it gets to phase 2 of this programme.

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

Ngiyabonga Sekela Mongameli.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker. I am very satisfied because all the rollout plans from the different provinces we get to discuss them centrally together with the Minister of Health and they get presented to the IMC so that we know which side is open where. I’m happy to report that we are getting now wider and wider, and we are going far into our far-flung rural areas. That’s where now we are opening this vaccination centres. Now, this is a good preparatory phase because we are only dealing with health care workers preparing that we get ready to take the second phase where the volume of people will be bigger.

 

Before starting with the vaccination programme, we consulted with traditional leaders, we consulted with interfaith leaders and they are very willing to support government and to spread the message and to sort of condemn the myth and the false information that is going throughout there and get our people to vaccinate. At a particular point if everything allows our traditional leaders will be the first in that phase to go to inoculate. Our interfaith leaders will be the first to go upfront so that they dispel all the myth around the vaccines.

 

 

We are going to scale up the vaccination process. Now, we are aiming that by the end of this month which is March we should reach a million. There is a lot that still needs to be done. We will be receiving our batches of Johnson and Johnson as the only vaccine that we are applying now. Very soon we will receive Pfizer. Pfizer is a double-shot that is the disadvantage, but it’s a good vaccine. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Members, don’t worry about double-shot. [Laughter.] It’s a vaccine. It’s a double-shot or double-jab. The next question is by hon Shivambu.

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker. Deputy President, I’m very disappointed if don’t have an answer to this question because we have asked the same question to the Minister of Finance and he did not respond, and we have asked the Minister of Health, he did not respond as well. Now, on 24 February, the Minister said that government has allocated

R10 billion for the next two years for the rollout and

 

delivery of vaccines, and that means it’s possibly like

 

R5 billion in the 2021-22 budget, another R5 billion in the 2022-23 budget. That is the context between which we are asking this question.

 

 

Now, when the Minister of Health was responding to questions on 10 March, last week Wednesday, he said that to vaccinate just half of the population of South Africa, they are going to need more than R10 billion. So, where are they going to get the money to buy these vaccines in terms of what is required because there is no budget in the current budget and also in the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework there is no allocation of resources. In appropriation ... on Friday there is not going to be any allocation. Where are you getting the money because there is no budget for that. Lastly, Deputy President why are you not having ... [Time expired.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, your time has expired. Hon member, your time has expired. Your time has expired and you can’t proceed even when you hear, and you were told and you were warned. Don’t exceed time allocated to you. You are given time and no authority was given to you to expand it, not by a second. Deputy President, please go ahead.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker. The question probably is correct because just right now we were talking about our fiscal environment. A certain amount is budgeted for the vaccines and I don’t think probably it will be adequate for the whole process of vaccination. We are hoping that mid-year we are going to take an adjustment, but for phase 1, phase 2 and phase 3 we think the money that is available is enough. However, if you are now projecting to inoculate the entire nation, you’ll need more. But, at that time we will cross the river when we are there. Now, we want to reach the population immunity, the 67%. We are running with the highest speed to reach that number. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

 

 

Mr S N SWART: Thank you, Deputy Speaker and my thanks also to the Deputy President. The ACDP shares the concerns of many that corruption and crimes will take place, given the first

 

vaccines that already been found and previous corruption that you alluded to with the personal protective equipment, PPEs, contract. In addition, we see those very serious allegations of corruption within the Health Department itself and it seems that the health sector anticorruption forum which was launched in 2019, has largely been ineffective. I’m sure you’ll agree that the R10 billion, Deputy President, of the vaccine programme is reach peaking for unscrupulous people and the fact that National Treasury has again allow deviations for transport, storage and distribution contribute to the risk.

 

 

Deputy President, would you support as part of mitigation strategies the real time auditing of all related vaccine contracts as an additional measure as well as asserting up of special additional courts to deal with corrupt companies and individuals should the need arise? Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you very much, hon Deputy Speaker. I’ve said in my response to the question that the Auditor- General would be in the position to go into these contracts between government and pharmaceutical companies. Therefore, to allay your fear, there is nothing that will be hidden for government. Government will be able to go in and our Auditor- General will inspect those agreements whether there was value

 

for money. But, of course, I must also indicate that we are trying by all means to utilise our valuable capability. For instance, the storage that we are using, the Biovac storage, we are partly owning it.

 

 

However, we are looking forward to utilising our own storage as government. The Department of Defence has got facilities in all the nine provinces and we are looking forward to utilising those facilities as our storage facilities given the cold chain we will be able to try and improve those conditions, but we want to minimise the tender process as far as we can. Thank you very much.

 

 

Question 3:

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker, we can confirm that the Inter-Ministerial Committee on Land Reform and Agriculture has been informed on the number of land claim cases under consideration by the Commission on the Restitution of the Land Rights. The amount allocated by the Minister of Finance during the Budget Speech, is for settlement of 1 347 claims and the finalisation of 1 266 outstanding land claims over the three-year Medium-Term Expenditure Framework.

 

Hon members, will recall that the Commission on Restitution of Land Rights has to prioritise the settlement of older claims that were submitted by 31 December 1998, as directed by the Constitutional Court. In this regard, a significant amount of the Commission’s budget is for the settlement of outstanding claims. Over the past three years, the Commission on Restitution of Land Rights has been allocated a budget of about R3 billion per financial year. In this regard, 82% of the budget goes directly towards the purchase of land, or for the payment of financial compensation to the beneficiaries who opt for cash compensation. The rest of the budgetary allocation goes to administrative functions.

 

 

Some of the examples include the settlement and finalisation of the Makgoba Community claim; Ragwadu Community claim in Limpopo, and uMgodi Community claim in KwaZulu-Natal totalling R700 million, Mathulini Community claim for R60 million, and Mandlazini Community claim for about R79 million also in KwaZulu-Natal.

 

 

Under the restitution programme, the major cost drivers are payments to consultants as part of the presettlement of claims. To date, project payments in support of land transfer or financial compensation, are the largest component of the

 

expenditure, making up more than 80% of the restitution programme’s expenditure. In essence, the 2019-20 land claims budget can be broken down as follows: 42,7% of funds from government to the Commission was spent on purchasing land as part of the restitution programme; 56,9% of the budget was allocated for financial compensation to those claimants who selected the option of cash compensation; and 0,3% was spent on grants aimed at providing claimants with the necessary support in the development of the claimed land.

 

 

In the past three financial years, budget allocations to the Commission have gradually decreased. As government, we acknowledge that the slow pace of land reform is costly to the fiscus and may be unsustainable. In most cases, it may cause frustration to those whose claims have not been finalised.

Nonetheless, we are resolute in pursuing land reform with urgency. Due to these delays, the Commission on Restitution of Land Rights has developed a backlog reduction strategy intended to address two key issues, that is, defining and categorising the current backlogs, and developing a plan to eliminate backlogs.

 

 

The National Treasury has advised that it is difficult to estimate the total costs of remaining land claims. This

 

decision is dependent on the preferences and circumstances of the relevant claimants, at a community, family or household level whether or not to settle for cash compensation. However, the Minister of Finance will take guidance from the Inter- Ministerial Committee on Land Reform and the Minister of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development on the estimation of claims that are likely to be compensated in cash.

 

 

In support of land restitution and redistribution processes, government is releasing land that is in the hands of the state in order to advance the objectives of land reform.

Furthermore, we will be releasing land under the state to address development pressures around urban and rural human settlements, agricultural production, and industrial development. Having said this, government remains committed to the resolution taken by Parliament to amend section 25 of the Constitution, which is why we have gazetted the Expropriation Bill of 2020. We look forward to Parliament finalising the required legislative amendments. Thank you

 

 

Mr M TSHWAKU: Noted hon Deputy Speaker, it will be done by hon member Tshwaku. Can I raise a point of order to you, hon Deputy Speaker, because you are not wearing a mask?

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: It’s okay, this is a problem about newcomers. Don’t worry, I did explain hon member that there are people who must read my lips. This is why they’ve requested me not to put on a mask when I am speaking here, so that I am also not muffled when I speak.

 

 

Mr M TSHWAKU: And, the Deputy President is also not wearing a mask.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: It’s because he is speaking on the microphone to avoid muffling. It’s okay, go ahead with your stuff now.

 

 

Mr M TSHWAKU: It’s not the first time that I am here and ...

 

 

IsiXhosa:

 

... andinguye ke umaqhel’efika.

 

 

English:

 

Okay, Deputy President, it is now almost 23 years, since in 1998 closing date for the lodging of the land claims. Many of the original claimants died without ever seeing the land from which they were removed and most of those who got the land they’ve been frustrated by the lack of the government support.

 

Even though you are saying that you have it and the bulk of the money used for land restitution has been to pay off white farmers or to settle the claims in cash and not with the returning of the stolen land. Now, if the government is in support of the principle of the expropriation of land without compensation, as you are claiming. How do you think a faster process to amend section 25 of the Constitution will assist in expediting the settlement of all the land claims? You are saying that you’re committed, as a ruling party. You keep on shifting the goal post of the report of the constitutional review all the time. For you not to be able to waste the resources, don’t you think that to expropriate the land without compensation is the better option? You do it now so that you do not have to waste money that can be used in the fiscus for other things? Thank you very much.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker, land expropriation without compensation is just but one available tool that will be utilised in our land reform programme. There are many tools. Some land is going to be purchased for redistribution. The land that is in question for the expropriation is a restitution land because that land has been claimed by particular claimants. There are land parcels that have not been claimed, but they are up for sale.

 

Government can purchase those and redistribute those land parcels to people, who are landless. We take expropriation of land without compensation as one tool that is aimed at addressing restitution that is lagging behind.

 

 

We are not going to wait until all the legislative processes are in place, before we can transfer land from those who own the land to the claimants. Meanwhile, as Parliament, you are dealing with section 25 of the Constitution and the Expropriation Bill, we are going to continue to settle claims so that there is no stand still in the process. ...

[Interjections.] We said so in the beginning. The President said we are going to embark on a land reform process in a manner that respects the Constitution. It’s important to go through the legislative process before you can embark on your expropriation of land without compensation. It must be defined in the Constitution. You can’t just do what you think it’s right. [Applause.] It should be what is in the Constitution.

Therefore, we have a duty as Parliament, as Members of Parliament, to stand up and hurry up the amendment of the Constitution. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

 

 

Mr P M P MODISE: Greetings to the Deputy President, thank you very much Deputy Speaker, Deputy President, giving His

 

Excellency, President Ramaphosa’s announcement on the release of state land in what way will the programme to release state land assist government to accelerate the settlement of outstanding land claims as well as speed up increasing access to land by majority of South Africans? Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you very much, I think the process of releasing state land to the claimants and ordinary people who are hungry for land will assist in taking forward our land reform programme in a faster way. This is how is going to happen. We have said so and I am going to repeat it again.

That land that is in the hands of the state whether is in the Department of Public Works or Department of Defence and what not, we are going to deliberately take that land and give it to the people - whether claimed or unclaimed. It’s worse if the land has been claimed. On the land that has been claimed, but it’s in the hands of the state, we are going to give back this land to the claimants. We are not requesting any money from the claimants. We are going to give them that land.

 

 

Again, we are going to identify pieces of land that are in the hands of government that can be redistributed to the people.

That is one arm of land reform. It’s either you restitute

 

because the person has claimed the land or you redistribute because the person has got no land and that person want land.

 

 

Again, like here in the Western Cape we have just released land for human settlement. This land has been owned by the Department of Defence. I might not be exactly in terms of the names of the portions, but the land is in the hands of the Department of Defence and it’s here in the Western Cape. Its prime land, we are going to release this land for human settlement. [Applause.] Now we know that releasing this piece of land ultimately will end up in the hands of the people in terms of their title deeds to the pieces of land that they will ultimately own whether it’s a house in that piece of land. This is how we think we can fast-track our land reform programme, but we are not really ruling out the amendment of the Constitution and the Expropriation Bill as one of the tools that must be utilised to expedite land reform. Thank you very much.

 

 

Mr M N NXUMALO: Thank you, Deputy Speaker, Deputy President, according to the Finance Minister the Land Bank defaulted on its debt in April 2020. It has been allocated R7 billion in recapitalisation funds. Have these funds been disbursed? That is the first one. As part of the Land Bank transformation

 

mandate, what percentage of this fund will be apportioned to the previously disadvantaged group who wish to enter the agricultural arena? I thank you, Deputy Speaker.

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

USEKELA SOMLOMO: Uyizwile Baba.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Deputy Speaker, what do you think? This

 

looks like it’s a new question.

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

USEKELA SOMLOMO: Yingakho ngikubuza ukuthi uyizwile yini? [Uhleko.]

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I think, it’s a new question. I am prepared to answer this question is about Land Bank defaulting. I am ready to come back to the hon member and give information about the defaulting of the Land Bank.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: That’s okay, I was giving you the option, Deputy President.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay, it’s alright.

 

Mr M N NXUMALO: Are you giving me ... [Inaudible.] ... [Interjections.]

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, if you are not speaking please switch off your mic. Please!

 

 

Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Thank you very much, hon Deputy Speaker. Is it acceptable to the Deputy President that the statement was made in this Parliament that in District Six 108 houses were on the radar, but we have been informed that these restitution flats are being built at a cost of R4,8 billion per flat and R1 billion must still be paid for per flat? They had over planned for the total development for District Six, the half of the resistance in the 1960s which the government paid for and includes a business model and development framework which involve all three spheres of government. What is the status of this plan, hon Deputy President? Is the Deputy President willing to join me on an oversight visit and maybe the hon Mandla Mandela can join us? Thank you very much, hon Deputy speaker.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: There’s an offer for an accompaniment,

 

Deputy President.

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, let’s take the offer so that we can understand what is happening to get to understand exactly the problem. Of course, this is a new question, but I will take the offer to go and understand what is happening at District Six. Thank you.

 

 

Ms N V MENTE: Deputy Speaker.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes.

 

 

Ms N V MENTE: Deputy Speaker, I think technically, we had only three follow ups since Nxumalo’s follow up fell off the radar. Can you give us that opportunity for the fourth question?

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You should have said so, then. I am gone now. [interjections.] I am.

 

 

Ms N V MENTE: No, no Deputy Speaker, you haven’t started the next question.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, we are gone.

 

Ms N V MENTE: No, we are not gone. We only did three follow ups. The other one fell off, can you give us that opportunity for the one that fell off.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Let me show you how it did not fall off. The man requested and the Deputy President agreed to respond to his question at the earliest opportunity. That’s done, that’s settled. [Interjections.] Yes, allow me to go please. In future, immediately they ... [Inaudible.] you do that. We are gone now.

 

 

Question 4:

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you Deputy Speaker, in essence, the quarterly labour force survey of the fourth quarter of 2020 shows substantial increase in the rate of unemployment compared to the third quarter of the same year. This is despite the increase in employment of 333 000 that was experienced during the same time compared to the third quarter of 2020.

 

 

From these results, the youth have been hardest hit with an increase to 41,8% of youth not in education, employment or training between 15 and 34 years in quarter four of 2020,

 

compared to 40,1% in quarter four of 2019. Of these numbers, female youth are the hardest hit.

 

 

Understood in context of the COVID-19 pandemic and its impact on the economy and employment prospects for many young people, the statistics indicate that the following areas will be impacted. The country will continue to experience increased poverty and inequality based on the higher number of individuals who have lost their jobs, as the rate of unemployment has increased leading to further inequality with the poor becoming poorer. The reduced absorptive capacity of the economy will lead to further insecurity with regard to employment and income for the country’s labour force. Social cohesion will be affected due to the inability of the economy to prioritise the development of its youth, women and people living with disabilities.

 

 

However, like in all major crises, the COVID-19 pandemic presents new opportunities that need to be harnessed. For instance, the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic has led to new knowledge economy that demands new capabilities in terms of e- skills to fight poverty and inequality. In this regard, the newly appointed Human Resource Development Council, HRDC, has resolved to recalibrate the human resources strategy to be

 

skills-based, innovation-led, entrepreneurship-driven and technologically advanced as part of economic reconstruction and recovery.

 

 

In terms of doing things differently, the HRDC will put emphasis on the 21st century requirements for individuals who can transcend academic disciplines and artificial distinctions between the soft and hard sciences; bridge the divide between theory and knowledge and match classroom learning with market demands by extending its role beyond merely providing oversight as an institution, but also to include thought leadership to unlock opportunities for growth purposes within the digital economy.

 

 

The potential to recover and reconstruct the South African economy lies in recognising that in order to reconstruct, we will need a youth-centric, multisectoral, strategic and innovative ethos that guides massive employment impacting positively on the demand and supply side of the labour market. This new approach sees youth as not only potential beneficiaries of jobs, but as co-creators of a new economy as well.

 

A study into youth labour market transitions by the National Planning Commission concluded that there needs to be a change in approach on pathway management of youth from education to active economic participation. Youth development programmes must account for their different circumstances, constraints, needs and aspirations.

 

 

In our view, the private sector also has a responsibility to contribute to making South Africa better. We must also look at young people as creators of industry. We applaud the Department of Tourism for implementing, amongst others, empowerment programmes for the youth in areas such as culinary, food safety, sommelier and hospitality. Young people in these programmes, also receive stipends as part of a comprehensive poverty alleviation response. The nonfinancial business support provided to the micro, small, and medium- sized businesses, SMMEs, is critical in ensuring their sustainability,

 

 

At the same time, the stimulus contributes to catalysing economic recovery through the multiplier effects of spending in local economies. This spending directly supports small enterprises and the informal sector in townships and rural areas. In the current phase of the Presidential Employment

 

Stimulus, which was announced by the President, the target is providing 700 000 directly funded opportunities. These range from public employment to livelihoods support for vulnerable categories of the self-employed and job retention schemes.

 

 

By the end of February this year, more than

 

550 000 opportunities were in implementation to support the employment of education and teacher assistants. Of this, more than 300 000 young people were employed as teacher and education assistants across 20 000 schools. In addition to these interventions, we have over the past year laid the foundation to address the barriers faced young people in order to shift their trajectory from learning to earning, so that they are able to gain a foothold in the economy.

 

 

We are mindful of the dictates of the “future of work”, which requires us to adapt to the changing environment. This means embracing digitisation, upgrading of workforce planning and reskilling, targeting of high growth sectors and roles, as well as finding opportunities for entrepreneurship.

 

 

Therefore, in implementing the Economic Reconstruction and Recovery Plan, our strategy should respond to young people who are digitally adept with information and communication

 

technologies, demanding skills and expertise that will enable them to adapt adequately to a changing workplace and technological demands.

 

 

It is a fact that young people have immense potential that should be harnessed, especially for the poor majority who need us to address the structural factors pertaining to skills development, education and economic inclusion. No society should allow young people to wallow in hopelessness when there are possible solutions that can change the prevailing situation. Thank you, Deputy Speaker.

 

 

Ms M R SEMENYA: Through you Deputy Speaker, thank you Deputy President. Let me welcome the respond from the Deputy President. My follow-up question is that, “What are the salient recommendations in the study into the youth labour market transitions and what impact do these recommendations have of the recalibrated human resource strategy in an effort to unlock human potential aligning education curriculum and skills development with the labour market demand? Thank you, Deputy President.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you once more, Deputy Speaker. The youth labour market study that was produced by the National

 

Planning Commission in 2017 proposes three models that we can use for intervention to support to support the transition of young people into the labour market. Model 1 focuses on enterprise development- the development of the SMMEs, and supporting them so that they don’t relapse. Model 2 relates to accessing the formal sector and seeks to address the interface between skills supply and the demand for jobs in the formal economy. That means the skills that we supply should merge with the market. This model describes various ways in which young people are or can be supported to transition into these employment opportunities.

 

 

Model 3 recognises that in many communities outside major metros, it is highly unlikely that formal sector employment will be available. The frustration of having nothing to do leads to our young people to do things that are outside the law, including substance abuse and involvement in criminal activity. This model advocates for creating pathways for young people to undertake social entrepreneurship and survivalist enterprise activities towards increasing the likelihood of positive engagement of young people in the economy and more broadly in society. So, these are the three models that are suggested by the National Planning Commission. Thank you.

 

Ms C V KING: Through you Deputy Speaker to the Deputy Speaker, we have a 32,5% unemployment crisis on hand, among those unemployed - as you have just mentioned, is the youth. We have students that are struggling to get the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, funding, or to get into higher education just to be led down after they qualified not to find employment.

 

 

You just stated that in 2017 there was a report that you had that actually stated that you had three choices to go for, obviously it didn’t work. Fifty-two per cent of our youth can’t find employment because there is an imbalance of supply and demand of skills which was a report that came out two days ago. Deputy President, why is the Human Resource Development Council, which is in your focal area failing to align the Human Resources Development Strategy with the National Skills Development Strategy rendering post-school education qualifications as irrelevant. [Applause.]

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. Firstly, I must say that the problem that we are facing in higher education is a good problem. It is a good problem in the sense that these are young people who are looking for education rather then young people who are sitting at home. So, the country must find the

 

necessary resources to help these young people to be at school. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

 

 

We are really encouraged by their vigour and their willingness to learn and acquire a skill, and this is a good problem. As a country we are going to find the resources because by skilling these young people – by allowing these young people to achieve a skill and train, in that way we will be assisting the very country of ours. Yes, we accept that as much as we have a number of young people that are in training, in our high schools, technical and vocational education and training, Tvet, colleges, we also have another number that is out there looking for employment.

 

 

In that number we have those who have passed matric that as government can try and reskill and channel them elsewhere. We can channel their energies elsewhere and open pathways for them. There are those who have not passed matric and as government we must also assist them to make a living. Those would be admitted in our community colleges so that they just acquire a skill as they don’t require stringent admissions.

 

 

I have said that a number of interventions emanating from our employment stimulus package have made a dent in this regard.

 

We have retained all the number of our students in our Tvet colleges, the 700 plus - close to 800 000 students are in Tvet colleges as we speak and they are training. And I am sure in the next week, all our students that are now in the streets will go back to school. We will find the money; we will support them. We will support them. [Interjections.] [Applause.] We have a duty to support them, there is no other way. As a country we know that we must support our young people to be skilled. [Interjections.] [Applause.] Of course, the President has made available R12,6 billion for us to go and support young people where you can’t find them.

 

 

I said we have supported young people who are interested in the tourism sector. We have supported young people that are helping in our education system - and that is quite a big number, 700 000 plus of young people are in employment now as assistant teachers. We are beginning with our recovery plan; I can hear all of you talking and that is an indication that we have a challenge. Instead of talking, let’s address the challenge. [Interjections.] Let’s stand firm and address the challenge. Talking and making noise won’t help us. Thank you very much.

 

Ms H O MKHALIPI: Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker. Deputy President I was listening to you and I am very disappointed when you were trying to respond on the crisis that we are facing. Nevertheless, let me just pose this question, hoping that you are going to respond to the EFF question. Deputy President, almost 12 million people are unemployed in South Africa, and you just said it to yourself that most of those people are young people.

 

 

One of the interventions that you just mentioned here for your government to do is to ensure that young people get access to education. Now, Minister Blade Nzimande is working day and night to reduce funding for university education and for the neediest South African youth. A case in point, Deputy President, because we are updated on the latest news, is the case of Unisa which we took to court as the EFF and you won it. So, my question to you Deputy President ... [Time expired.] [Interjections.]

 

 

Ms H O MKHALIPI: My question to you is, have you taken action against Blade in this counter-revolutionary activity to stop young people to get access to education? [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, your time has expired. [Interjections.] Hon members ... Yes, hon member?

 

 

Ms J TSHABALALA: Yes, Deputy Speaker I noted now that the member says Blade Nzimande is working day and night to reduce funding. It can’t be correct. It is not factual; she needs to put facts on the table. Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, no, no, no! This is not going to be allowed. Hon member, you know you must refer to the Minister properly, first. No, no, Paulsen. Hon Paulsen, please, you know you should not do that. You are deliberately breaking the Rules and would encourage you not to do that.

 

 

Ms H O MKHALIPI: Deputy Speaker, with due respect, I said Mr Blade Nzimande.

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

USEKELA SOMLOMO: Ungangixubhi ngisandla.

 

 

Nk H O MKHALIPI: Qeda ke ukudla bese ngikhuluma nawe.

 

 

English:

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hold on, hold on! In the first place, take your seat. Hon members, please desist from doing these things that you are doing that are out of order because you disrupt the House. We would like the Deputy President who is here to answer your questions to do so without disruptions. So, don’t do that. Deputy President, were you done?

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you hon Deputy Speaker. I can realise that hon member Mkhaliphi you are very emotional about these issues. Your concern is well placed. If our students are getting disrupted, we are all concerned. And as I said, we have a responsibility as government to find the necessary resources to get our children back to school. I said it’s a good problem because these students that want to go and learn and get skills. It is a plus for the country. I don’t think it will really help us to zone down the problem to an individual Minister Nzimande. No, it is a problem that affects the country. We are just from a COVID-19 situation, and our financial situation is not very good. So, the Minister is trying very hard and he will be supported by Cabinet and by the President. We will try and find money and support our students.

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

Sisonke la kule ndaba.

 

 

English:

 

We must act together. Thank you.

 

 

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Deputy President, I don’t think the problem is as simple as we think. The last six of the seven years that I was here, we have been repeatedly highlighting the problem we have in terms of the skills shortages in the country. What the Tvet colleges and tertiary institutions are offering in the country, they don’t speak to each other. Now, when I say the problem is bigger than that, it’s because it starts right from school level. I have some statistics which are alarming, Deputy President.

Only 51% of black children who started in Grade 1 finish up to matric, while white children it is 81%, Indian 81% and Coloured 52%. So, you can see the problem. That is in addition and that ...

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, ask your question your time is running out.

 

 

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Yes, but it is a very important, Deputy Speaker. Now, that is in addition and that ...

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, ask your question; your time is running out.

 

 

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Yes, but it is very important information, Deputy Speaker.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no! Time is limited.

 

 

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: So, the problem is that ...

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, your time is finished!

 

 

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: You just told me to ask the question ...

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I tried to warn you, and you insist on your preambles and tall stories and not ask the question. No, no, no, I object. Hon members, I can’t be sitting here telling you to use the time you are allocated and you don’t use it.

No, you rise to make your statement and ask your question. If you can’t do it within the minutes allocated to you, I must stop you. Twenty seconds is more than you deserve. Your time is finished, unfortunately, and I am not giving it you. Hon President, you may respond or comment on the matter before you.

 

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: I think that is the Deputy President, Deputy Speaker.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much for correction, hon Shaik. [Laughter.] So, you are alert on those matters. Thank you very much, I appreciate it. Deputy President? [Laughter.]

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. The hon Deputy Speaker is very harsh. If I was the hon Deputy Speaker, I would have given you that opportunity.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Unfortunately, you won’t be that today. [Laughter.]

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I am not. [Interjections.]

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Deputy President, these are the Rules here. [Laughter.]

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Well, to try and answer the preamble to the question, because I heard that you were talking about the structural problems in education and the skills mismatch - that means our economy needs this kind of skills and as a country we are developing these skills. That theory has been

 

dismissed. It has been dismissed because we have engineers – electrical and mechanical, that are out there without employment. Our economy cannot absorb them. Probably, it is high time for the economy to expand so that it can absorb these multiskilled people that are there in the market. But of course, I take the point that a number of our students fell along the way – they dropped out. They don’t reach the desired destination because of a number of factors.

 

 

This government of the ANC has given it to itself to support a child right from its mother’s womb until tertiary education because a mother will be given a grant for the child. The child after being born will be given a grant to cushion the child and the mother from poverty. The child will be afforded education which is free right until higher education. And that is very costly. We provide a teacher; we provide furniture; we provide books; we provide everything for our children. Of course, there are still certain elements that we must deal with that affects our children making it very difficult for them to complete schooling.

 

 

We must assess those conditions. Some children are still travelling long distances to school which is a problem. Those are communities in far-flung rural areas and farming

 

communities where we still need to improve the kind of education that we offer at that level. But if you look at the performance of basic education over the years, we have done very well. Thank you very much.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much, Deputy President. Hon members, at the beginning of our questions here, I took issue with the hon Hill-Lewis because he exceeded his timeframe.

Now, you always demand us as presiding officers to be even- handed. I can’t allow anybody in the House, especially when what the member say is of importance is self-made and not the decision of the House, that that question is important. [Laughter.] Please, adhere to the allocated time. Prioritise your question and its motivation can then follow if you still have time. If you prioritise your motivation, you are bound to run into trouble, then you can’t blame us presiding officers for your ill-preparedness. [Laughter.] Because you know what is going to happen, it is not like you don’t know.

 

 

Afrikaans:

 

So, asseblief man, kom ons bly by die reëls.

 

 

English:

 

You can’t be running all the time off the rails.

 

Afrikaans:

 

Dis onaanvaarbaar. Asseblief, ons vra altyd vir u.

 

 

Sesotho: 16:49:51

 

Re a le kopa hleng. Tswetswee!

 

 

Question 5:

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: We appreciate the focus that the IFP is placing on the sustainability of Eskom, as this demonstrates their appreciation of the strategic nature of this power utility and its impact to the South African economy. However, the debt level of R488 billion that the hon member is referring to, is debt as at the end March 2020. The current debt level as at end of September is R464 billion. Therefore, these half-year results demonstrate a decline in Eskom’s debt.

 

 

We have on numerous occasions acknowledged the complexity of restructuring an entity such as Eskom and the amount of time it may take to realise the intended results. The frustrations of the public thereof, are understandable. We harbor no illusions to the reality faced by the power utility, which is shaped by legacy issues, as well as other challenges related to rising debt. This is why we came up with Eskom’s turnaround plan that is focused on the following five areas:

 

Operational recovery, improving the utility’s income statement, addressing the balance sheet, accelerating the restructuring of Eskom into three divisions, and building a high-performance organisation through addressing its corporate culture. Under the leadership of the Group Executive for transformation management office, who was appointed in July 2020 to focus on Eskom’s restructuring process.

 

 

The following progress year to date for 2021 has been recorded: On improving the utility’s income statement, Eskom has realised savings of R4 billion that was declared against a target of R3,1 billion. This will further be complemented by a tariff increase of 15% for the 2022 financial year which has been granted to Eskom. In terms of employee costs, the second round of voluntary severance packages are underway, and net savings are expected to be realised in the 2022 financial year.

 

 

Efforts are underway towards ensuring that procurement savings are also realigned. This is in line with the update that the board of Eskom gave to the Standing Committee on Public Accounts on 04 March 2021. On efforts related to strengthening the balance sheet, a savings of R7,5 billon has been realised in terms of capital expenditure. Processes are also underway

 

to dispose noncore assets. In line with achieving operational efficiency, five units at Medupi and Kusile power stations that had design defects are being corrected, and this will contribute to sustainable energy provision by our new build programme.

 

 

For instance, Kusile Unit 2 has added 720 megawatts to the national grid since its commercial operation in October 2020. Major defects at Ingula Pumped Storage Scheme, have been addressed and each of the four units are now performing at full capacity of 331 megawatts from the previous 245 megawatts. Further, transmission network performance has returned to the expected levels, and distribution performance remains stable.

 

 

On restructuring Eskom into three divisions, divisionalisation was completed by March 2020 as the first step towards business separation, with functional separation to be completed by March 2021. The establishment of a separate transmission subsidiary is still targeted for completion by December 2021, with generation and distribution by December 2022.

Finalisation of this process will create the required certainty for prospective investors in generation capacity, in

 

turn, ensuring that bids are fairly adjudicated, relative to

 

Eskom’s generation.

 

 

In our view, this is a demonstration that the sentiments by the hon member that, none of the deadlines of Eskom’s

turnaround strategy have been met, are misplaced. As the political task team on Eskom, we are comfortable with the

notable progress in Eskom’s recovery of its operational

 

performance that has been made thus far. Our current focus should be on addressing the elements that contribute to decreasing the debt including the procurement function in the turnaround plan.

 

 

The rising municipal debt, continues to pose serious risks to

 

Eskom’s long-term financial sustainability. In fact, it

 

contributes to liquidity challenges that are faced by the entity. In this regard, a number of efforts are underway to address this challenge. For instance, the Eskom Social Compact signed by government, business, labour and community constituencies at the National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, on 08 December 2020, is a key step to addressing this debt burden.

 

It provides the foundation for future initiatives. The parties to the social compact, committed to supporting Eskom to joint solution to illegal connections and non-payment of the debt.

At the level of the political task team on Eskom, we have established the Multi-Disciplinary Revenue Committee made up of the departments of Public Works and Infrastructure, Public Enterprises, Human Settlements, Water and Sanitation,

Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs, CoGTA, National Treasury, SA Local Government Association, SALGA, and Eskom.

 

 

The mandate of this sub-committee under the coordination of National Treasury, is to improve revenue management in municipalities, which encompasses addressing debt issues but also to ensure the reduction in debt owed by municipalities.

In this regard, the Eskom political task team is encouraged by the progress made in the collection of R4 billion of

outstanding debt by provinces between 01 April 2020 and 01 December 2020. Hon Hlengwa should be relieved by this

progress, following communication to the Leader of Government Business on 11 March 2020, on the development of a roadmap towards ensuring that the debt to Eskom is settled.

 

In many instances, the municipal debt to Eskom is largely caused by arrear accounts, interest on outstanding debt, and exceeding the Notified Maximum Demand. In this way, municipality debt continues to grow, placing more pressure on their financial sustainability and inability to pay back Eskom thereby impacting on their capacity to provide services. It is for this reason, hon Deputy Speaker, that an active partnering model between Eskom and municipalities with high debt levels, is being considered by the political task team on Eskom in order to improve revenue collections.

 

 

In this case, Eskom would act on behalf of the municipality, maintain and operate its networks, bill and collect all revenue due to the municipality. The envisaged benefits of this model are the following: Enabling the municipality to discharge its constitutional duties, by providing reliable electricity to its customers; curbing the municipal debt increase; and improving the municipality’s revenue collection.

 

 

We therefore invite all of us to support this proposal in line with our responsibility of improving the culture of payment for services such as electricity and water by all our communities. Across political divide, we must join in the comprehensive campaign of encouraging communities to pay for

 

electricity and other services they consume. We also want to reiterate the campaign by the political task team on Eskom to pay for municipal services, just as we do with other private services.

 

 

This campaign also targets illegal connections, ghost vending, meter tampering related to electricity and water. In our view,

addressing the issue of non-payment will contribute in turning

 

around the financial situation of Eskom thus delivering on the overall turnaround plan. Therefore, we make this clarion call

on all our communities to pay for electricity that they consume, in order to enable Eskom and municipalities to

provide services in a continuously and sustainable manner. Thank you, hon Chairperson.

 

 

Mr M N NXUMALO: Chairperson, hon Hlengwa is not around, I will take the question on his behalf.

 

 

IsiZulu:

 

USIHLALO WENDLU (Nk M G Boroto): Ithathe Nxumalo.

 

 

Mr M N NXUMALO: Through you, hon Chairperson, hon Deputy President, firstly, let you and I agree that in the past few days it has been said that we will be experiencing load

 

shedding for the next five years, but through the mouth of the President, His Excellency, Mr Ramaphosa, in 2017 he made a promise to the nation that we will no longer be experiencing load shedding. Now, back to you, hon Deputy President, you convened the political task team in meeting on 28 November 2020, in which you have received a progress report as you have already said on the debts of municipalities to Eskom.

 

 

On what has been reported on this meeting, it appears that the task team resolved by exploring all avenues as you have already articulated some of them here today. But the main question, hon Deputy President would be, what will be the urgent steps taken to those municipalities which did not come to the fore, in terms of what the political task team has put on the table, and what are the repercussions as the debt would be taken by you in the team that you are leading and the government to ensure that we collect as much money from municipalities as possible, under your watch. I thank you, hon Deputy President and the Chairperson, hon Boroto.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Chairperson, I think that the hon member must commend the political task team for the progress that we have made. An amount of R40 billion which comes from government departments and municipalities has been paid. I

 

think that it’s progress because it was under duress that were exerted on these government departments and the municipalities. I must thank Minister De Lille for leading the Department of Public Works and Infrastructure for the co- operation. So, we are going to continue on that road.

 

 

One step that we are taking parallel to this one is that, we are going to enter into an agreement with all the top-20 defaulting municipalities, Eskom is going to take over the running of the electricity in those municipalities and it is going to put the meter, improve the billing in those municipalities, so that Eskom can recover the money.

Therefore, we request people to support us in that effort.

 

 

The first municipalities will be Maluti-a-Phofung, Emfuleni Municipality, Goven Mbeki Municipality, I can name all of them. With all those municipalities we are going to sign an agreement between those municipalities and Eskom, so that Eskom can take over. We are going to pilot the installation of meters, we are going to improve the billing system and remove all illegal connections so that we eliminate wastage. Thank you very much.

 

Ms J TSHABALALA: Through you, Madam House Chairperson, hon Deputy President, the reality is that, restructuring of Eskom is very critical for our own economic growth and development, and its core structure is negatively impacted upon the debt liability. Now, the Eskom debt liability, Deputy President, has increased and it’s drowning the profitability of the company.

 

 

How is it that the restructuring process dealing with the implementation on the turnaround plan and reducing the debt liability is going to assist, so that we Eskom is able to be self-sufficient where it is needed? Just the last point, since I have the time. It is not in the question though. The issue of load shedding that we are experiencing, Eskom has spoken about it. What is it doing, because it is affecting lots of our communities?

 

 

What can you advise our people to let them take strides, so that they do it with their own lives? In that way, they are able to adhere to Eskom ... [Interjection.] Thank you. [Time expired.]

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Chair, let me start with the last question of load shedding. I think that we must commend the

 

leadership of Eskom for coming out openly about what is going to happen. Given the nature of the grid and the performance of our plant, the fact of the matter is that, our plants are getting old each day. By the way, some of them are very old, but we need them to produce energy so that me and you can have life.

 

 

Now, we maintain those power station, and there is what is called planned maintenance. Eskom plan the maintenance of all its power stations. But also, there is an unplanned maintenance and unplanned disruption. While we have planned to maintain some power stations, another power station will be disrupted. If a power station is disrupted and it’s unplanned, we lose that energy, then we are forced to step into load shedding. But the unplanned disruptions are mainly caused by a number of years of no maintenance, which now the current leadership is trying to recover from.

 

 

What they call it is that, what they are doing is reliability maintenance, so that these power stations can be reliable. The maintenance that they do should be thorough, so that the power stations should not just break anytime, and disrupt the lives of our people. So yes, we are going to do anything in our power to shorten that period. But for now, let us accept what

 

the leadership of Eskom has said. We will go inside and say that we should put more effort, to try and reduce the period of load shedding. That of course will require a lot of resources.

 

 

Now, I’ve said in my answer that the debt has gone down from R488 billion to R454 billion, because of the recovery and efforts that Eskom is putting in trying to ensure that those that are owing are pressurised. We have gone to court with the number of municipalities pressurising them to pay, and some have failed. We realise that probably, going to court and disrupting municipalities, is not the best way, maybe the best way is to partner with them and ensure that service is delivered, but the amount recovered will then go to Eskom and Eskom will then pay what is due to the municipality.

 

 

If we allow the municipality to collect, they don’t pay what is due to Eskom, they pay other things that they are short of. So yes, there is progress that we are making in terms of reducing the debt. Also, there is a co-ordinated effort that we are doing as government departments that I have mentioned in trying to ensure that all those that are owing should pay. We are now sitting with National Treasury to look at the municipalities and their grants. We are able to think because

 

we have access to their grants. I must say to them that we are thinking about the grants that we see and are not being paid. Thank you.

 

 

Mr G K Y CACHALIA: House Chair, Eskom tried in the past by anticipating in the course of history and stepping out in front of change, thereby building its capacity to lead, but that is we are all going to see, by literally facing the dark future. In 1983, the government responded to a cost crisis at Eskom by appointing a Commission of Enquiry into the supply of electricity, a devious commission.

 

 

Will the Deputy President now agree to a call for urgent steps to convene an adhoc committee, with clearly define terms of reference on the state and fate of the utility for the provision of the requisite transparency in terms of information concerning all procurement contracts and other arrangements that impact costs, detailed planned for costed operational improvements and the potential sources of funding to address the availability and affordability of electrical supply? We cannot ... [Interjections.] Thank you. [Time expired.]

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Chairperson, it is not an excellent question, I am saying this because I heard someone’s voice saying that it’s an excellent question. Now, I want to say that, it’s not my call as the Deputy President and a member of this National Assembly to support a call ... [Interjections.]

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIPRERSON (Ms M G Boroto): hon Cachalia, you can’t

 

do that.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: ... the call is on all members of this National Assembly to debate that, and if they so feel, they can do that. I am reporting on what we are doing. Thank you very much. ... [Interjections.] ... Are you saying that I’m wrong? If you are saying so, then I am happy to be wrong.

Thank you very much.

 

 

Mr W M THRING: Through you, hon Chairperson, hon Deputy President, Eskom with a debt of R464 billion is seen by many as the biggest risk in the South African economy. The staff compliment sits at 44 000 and the World Bank study indicated that Eskom is overstaffed by some 66%. An increasing staff at Eskom, has led to a decrease in its electrical output. Now, hon Deputy President, noting that Eskom risks defaulting on its debts payments, and that some difficult decisions were

 

needed to be made to reduce Eskom’s bloated workforce. What plans are in place to bring Eskom’s staff compliment in line with international norms aside from retirement and voluntary services, and what are the timelines to achieve this? Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Chair, I think that this is one of the turnaround strategy, and to date if I can report, more than 2000 people have left the employ of Eskom while we have not retrenched people. We have allowed people through the natural attrition process to leave, some go on retirement and unfortunately, some pass on. We then close or abolish their posts. We don’t reopen the post, but we rearrange them.

Meanwhile that process is happening, we have realised that we have lost a lot of required skills to sustain Eskom and our power stations.

 

 

We have then allowed Eskom to acquire those skills, even if it comes to importing those skills. We have allowed the CEO to do that, because those skills are needed in the power stations.

We need the mechanical and electrical engineers that should be in a power station, to ensure that the power station is running. For a particular time, we have lost a number of skilled people in Eskom, which we must now generate. So, we

 

have allowed people to leave the employ of Eskom through natural attrition, but we have opened the gate, that is through severance packages.

 

 

We told the employers that if they are willing, we are able to give them an incentive in order for. Then to take a severance package. For severance package, the incentive is R75 000, meaning that, if you take it, there will be an additional

R75 000 payment. That is one way of allowing people to leave the employ of Eskom, without them being to be forced out to leave or retrenched.

 

 

Just now, we were talking about the unemployment rate, and as the state, we can’t the one that retrench people. We must find better ways of handling the situation that we are confronting in Eskom. Thank you very much.

 

 

Question 6:

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: House Chairperson, yes, the executive remains accountable to the National Assembly and has demonstrably done so through various mechanisms like appearing in portfolio committees and responding to questions for oral and written replies.

 

As leader of government business in Parliament, we have previously affirmed the centrality of this institution in ensuring that accountability of the executive is upheld at all times. As the executive, we regard accountability to Parliament as a platform to bridge the social distance between the people and their elected representatives. Therefore, being accountable to Parliament by the executive, fosters the unity of our nation and it promotes people’s participation in policy and legislative processes.

 

 

In any event, Section 92 (2) and (3) of the Constitution, stipulates that Members of the Cabinet are accountable collectively and individually to this Parliament for the exercise of their powers and the performance of their functions. Furthermore, Section 93 (3) (b) stipulates that Members of Cabinet must provide Parliament with full and regular reports concerning matters under their control.

 

 

In this regard, Parliament relies more on the Leader of Government Business to execute its oversight function with regard to programming, ensuring executive accountability, including amongst other things, responding to Parliamentary questions for oral and written reply. To this end, we

 

continuously engage and monitor the executive on matters of their accountability to Parliament.

 

 

This is done through reports that we present to Cabinet regarding outstanding replies by Ministers in both the National Assembly and the NCOP. We further make requests to the executive to provide reasons for non-compliance thereof, and remedial actions to be taken to address outstanding replies.

 

 

What has transpired is that most outstanding or lapsed replies, would have had tight timelines whereas required information resides in other organs of state beyond the respective Member of the Executive. Once information has been received, it would still undergo the verification process to avoid misleading this House.

 

 

However, Parliament should rest assured that we are continuously improving. Since we resumed this responsibility in the Sixth Administration, we have had continuous engagements with Members of the Executive who had larger numbers of outstanding replies. We have since recorded a decline in the number of lapsed questions.

 

It is true that 172 question were not responded to by the executive during 2020 session of Parliament, and the relevant Members of the Executive were duly advised about the number of outstanding replies before the questions lapsed.

 

 

For the lapsed questions for written reply in 2020, we must also acknowledge the disruption by the COVID-19 pandemic.

Similarly, Members of the Executive had to contend with the limitations brought by the lockdown regulations and had to adjust to new ways of executing their responsibilities.

 

 

If Parliament is of the view that the Executive is not accountable, Rule 136 of the National Assembly gives the power to the Speaker to establish a system to monitor, and report to the Leader of Government Business in Parliament on any steps to be taken against the Member of the Executive who has not complied with the rules of Parliament.

 

 

Similarly, Parliamentary committees have wide ranging powers in terms of Rule 167 to summon Members of the Executive to explain themselves, and to produce documents where necessary. In this regard, the ultimate power of reprimand rests with Parliament to hold the executive accountable.

 

On our part, we will continue to engage the executive in terms of their responsibilities to Parliament, including monitoring the quality of their responses to Parliamentary questions.

 

 

To this end, Cabinet has since delegated the Minister in the Presidency responsible for Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation to develop a framework to monitor implementation of the Legislative Programme and Executive Accountability as part of the measures to strengthen the executive accountability to Parliament. Thank you, House Chairperson.

 

 

Dr C P MULDER: House Chairperson, thank you, hon Deputy President, I agree with you with almost you said Deputy President, you’ve quoted exactly from the Constitution, the parts that I was going to quote to you, you quoted them to me, because that’s what the Constitution exactly says, that’s needed to be done. Now, accountability is one of the core values of our own Constitutional dispensation, it’s absolutely one of the core values. It’s the task of Parliament to keep the executive to account, that’s what we are trying to do and that’s why we are asking questions of the executive. But, with all due respect sir, if we come at the end of the term with

172 questions, were not answered by Members of the Executive, surely nobody can be happy with that, nobody can accept that,

 

it’s just not acceptable that, that kind of situation could

 

arise.

 

 

I do not agree with the COVID-19 thing, Cabinet should try zoom, it works for most of us and they really try that and speak to the officials. What I want to asked hon Deputy President is, what steps are going to take within the executive to make sure that this stops immediately. Thank you, sir.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Chairperson, well I have conveyed this message to the executive, through the Cabinet meetings and this matter was discussed. What has been obvious, is that some of the questions, they take long to be responded to because of their nature, for instance if you ask a question about the province, the relevant Minister must source that information from that province and also made the point that, that information that he or she has received is correct, so that whatever is presented to Parliament, should not mislead Parliament.

 

 

The same applies to question that requires an answer from a municipality. Now, it’s better if we focus our questions on the function of the executive, the national government. I’m

 

sure all parties here are represented in the different provinces in their legislatures, so those questions can be asked there, and a number of parties are represented in that different municipalities, so those questions can be asked in those different municipalities, other than making a hassle to ask a question from a municipality and it will take time for that answer to be processed to Members of the National Assembly. And that answer might border around something to be incorrect. So, if we want to be precise let’s also look at the quality and the preciseness of the question. Thank you very much.

 

 

Siswati:

 

Mk. D E DLAKUDE: Sihlalo Wendlu, angibonge kakhulu Lisekela LaMengameli kulemphendvulo yakho losinikete yona, yaba banti kakhulu, kodvwa ungihambele phambili wayiphendvula. Ngicela kutsi ungiphendzele yona, ngiyibute ngeSiswati, kutsi; ingabe ngutiphi tinkhinga lenihlangabetana naMalunga eTindvuna tematiko, kutsi akwati kubamba sikhatsi ekuniketeni timphendvulo, Emalunga aLendlu, eSishayamtsetfo Savelonkhe, lasuka atibutile. Ikakhulukati kutimphendvulo letisuka emaprovinsini, kanye nahulumende wasemakhaya? Ingabe yini lekufanele yenteke kuze emaprovinsi abanikete letimphendvulo ngesikhatsi kunekutsi bababambelele ngoba kube sekubukeka

 

ngatsi leTindvuna ngito letingafuni kwenta umsebenti wato ngokutsi babambe sikhatsi sekutsi babanikete timphendvulo... [Kuhlaba lulwimi.] Ngiyabonga [ Kwaphela sikhatsi.]

 

 

Siswati:

 

LISEKELA LAMENGAMELI: Sihlalo Wendlu, sicabanga kutsi indlela lencono yekutsi sibambisane sisigungu, sibambisane nePhalamende kwekutsi umbuto lesiwubutako, akube umbuto lotawubuka umsebenti wetfu lapha kuhulumende wavelonkhe. Kuba matima-ke kutsi sibutwe ngemsebenti lewenteka emaprovinsini, sibutwe nangemisebenti leyenteka kubomasipala. Ngoba sicabanga kutsi kulentsandvo yelinyenti yacembunyenti, tonkhe tinhlangano letikhona lapha ePhalamende, timelelwe lapha kuTishayamtsetfo temaprovinsi wonkhe.

 

 

Tiphindze timelelwe kubomasipala, angibekise nje, njengelicembe lelisemtsetfweni leliphikisako, iDA, iDA khona kuwo wonkhe emaprovinsi, iphindze ibe khona kubo bonkhe bomasipala, kungaba kuhle kutsi kunekutsi lombuto lo ubutwe lapha kuSishayamtsetfo Savelonkhe, ungabutwa khona lapho kuleyoprovinsi, uphindze ubutwe khona lapho kulowo masipala kuze uphendvuleke khona lapho. Asikukhutsati-ke kutsi tsine lapha sibutwe umbuto ngamasipala nangeprovinsi. Singawubuta umbuto ngamasipala, lapha tsine siye sangenelela khona, ngoba

 

sesinesandla lapho. Singawubuta umbuto njengeprovinsi lapho siba nekungenelela khona, njengase Nyakatfo-Mphumalanga lapho sifake Sigaba 100, lokusho kutsi natsi singuhulumende wavelonkhe sesinesandla ekuphatfweni kwaleyo provinsi.

Tinkhinga takuleyoprovinsi sesiyatati natsi. Kuba lula-ke kutsi sikhone kuwuphendvula lowo mbuto ngesikhatsi lesifunwa ngeMalunga ePhalamende. Ngiyabonga.

 

 

Mr G G HILL-LEWIS: House Chairperson, and thank Deputy President, just on the question of question if you will. Yesterday, your party voted for rule change, that will see you come much less frequently to the House, Deputy President, I’m sure what that says about your understanding in the party.

But, we are on the side are sad that we will not see you as often as we are used to.

 

 

Let me just make some very specific proposal and ask for your response. You’ve underscored the importance of Constitutional accountability of the executives to this House. Can I ask for your specific commitment; will you add replies to Parliamentary questions to the performance contract of every Minister, firstly? Will specifically reprimand those Ministers who are guilty of those 172 answered questions? And will give us commitment that you will do those two things, to send a

 

clear message to the executive that you take this matter extremely seriously? Thank you.

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): As you will be responding, may I remind you that, of rule 137 (2), please check it, about how many questions you can pass. Hon Deputy President.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: House Chairperson, with regards to the first question, about the performance agreements, that is the purview of the President, who signs with each and every member. Because I am working with the President, I would convey this message and your opinion.

 

 

Now, the President every time when we present a report about unanswered question, he’s got the last word on the item and he continuously reprimand all of us to ensure that we respect the work of Parliament. So, he does that on a continuous basis and I’m sure at a particular point, when decides to, he can take a decision to reshuffle a person. And I’m sure he is thinking about that, he might also reshuffle me, so he is thinking about that because you don’t just act on an event, you start by expressing your concern and see whether there’s any improvement on what you are saying and if there’s no

 

improvement, you act. So, I’m sure the President is looking at

 

this situation.

 

 

But, we must say that we often encounter some disquiet on the side of the Members of the Executive, probably we must always try and maintain a cordial relationship between the Members of the Executive and the House, and these members are also Members of the House. For instance, hon Chief Whip that – if a portfolio committee decides to sit, there should be ample time to communicate with the Minister, to say we require you to come and present yourself before the portfolio committee on such and such a date. But, I’ve noted that there are very abrupt meetings that are set on a daily basis and those meetings seek to disrupt the working of the executive, because a particular member will request for an excuse in a Cabinet meeting to attend to a portfolio committee.

 

 

Now, if we can try and align our work and we know all of us that we account to Parliament, let the language that we use, to make us feel that we must account, should to be moderate, it should to be moderate, it should be a language that say Minister you are supposed to present a report, no, not to say “you must come”, we don’t want to hear your reason, you must come. You are talking to your colleague, you are talking to

 

your Minister, you are talking about the work of Parliament. I’m saying in the execution of our duty, let’s mind our language, so that we remain professional at all times. Thank you very much.

 

 

Ms N V MENTE: House Chair, Deputy President, these questions you are answering here today and the answer that you have provided thereof is a very same answer you provided on 25 June 2020 and you promised then that you are going to caution the Ministers who are involved in not answering questions.

 

 

Now, we need at least one name that you have cautioned or that you have taken to Cabinet that he or she must be taken to task. I am going to give you two names of the people who are neither dealing with province nor municipalities, Minister Jamnandas Gordhan and Minister Ntshavheni, they blatantly refused to answer questions that are written questions to them, neither answering letters. If the answer, they do it condescendingly so. Now they have even resort to preventing member of [Interjection.] Parliament to do, their individual oversight which is unconstitutional [Time expired.]

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: House Chairperson, I will take up this matter and I offer to come back to you, in a written form.

 

But, you see from time to time – I am a member this Parliament, but I can see the altercation between EFF members and Minister Gordhan, at times I refer to say, no, no, you write private letters and then you fight in Parliament, there’s animosity between yourself and the Minister. Of course, of course I am going to take this matter up with the Minister and come back to you in writing. But, I’m just commenting that there’s bad blood between yourself and the Minister... There’s no bad blood?

 

 

Ms N V MENTE: It’s only him, with Minister Ntshavheni as well and there’s no bad blood, if there is ... [ Interjection.]

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Hon member, how can you do that, you just stand take the mic and speak. No, that’s wrong, no, no, you can talk to the Deputy President after that, your time has passed and he has responded. Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you.

 

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Thank you, very much the hon Deputy President, for making this session a success and thank you to the hon members, that concludes hon members,

 

the business for the day and the House is adjourned. Thank you.

 

 

The House adjourned at 17:41.

 

 

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