Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard (Mini plenary)
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 23 Jul 2020
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
MINI PLENARY - NATIONAL ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, 23 JULY 2020
VOTE NO 23 – DEFENCE
PROCEEDINGS OF MINI-PLENARIES – NATIONAL ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Mini plenary- Vote 23: Defence
Members of the mini-plenary session met on the virtual platform at 16:16.
The Acting House Chairperson Ms R M M Lesoma took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
VIRTUAL SITTING RULES
(Announcement)
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Before we proceed, I would like to remind you that the virtual mini-plenary is deemed to be in the precinct of Parliament, and it constitutes a meeting of the National Assembly for debating purposes on the ... [Inaudible.]. In addition to the rules of the virtual sittings, including the rules of debate, apply. members enjoy the same powers and privileges that apply in a sitting of the National Assembly. Members should equally note that anything said in the virtual platform is deemed to have been said to the House and maybe ruled upon.
All members who have logged in shall be considered to be present and are requested to mute their microphones and only unmute when recognised to speak. This is because the mics are very sensitive and will pick up noise which might disturb the attention of other members. When recognised to speak, please unmute your microphone and connect your video.
Members may make use of the icons at the bottom of their screens, which have an option that allows a member to put his or her hand up to raise their hand on points of order. The secretariat will assist in alerting the Chairperson to members requesting to speak. When using the virtual system, members are urged to refrain from or desist from unnecessary points of order or interjections.
Hon members, we shall now proceed to the order which is the debate on Vote 23 – Defence Adjustment Appropriation Bill. Now I recognise the hon Minister, the Minister of Defence. The hon Minister? Was I audible, hon members? [Interjections.]
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Can you hear me now, Chairperson?
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): You are very much audible now, Minister. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Thank you, Chair.
ADJUSTMENTS APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate on Budget Vote No 23 – Defence:
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: House Chairperson, Deputy Minister of Defence and Military Veterans, hon Makwetla, hon chairperson of the Portfolio Committee of Defence, hon Cyprian Xaba, co-chairperson of the Joint Standing Committee on Defence, hon Nchabeleng, as I stand before you on this occasion to present our Defence Budget Vote 23 on the 23rd of July 2020, on Day 119 since lockdown and at a time when our country and the world is seized with the fight against corona.
I wish to pay tribute and honour our stalwart and military veteran, uTata Mlangeni, a recipient of the Military Veterans Decoration in Platinum Class II during August 2012. He was also an honorary colonel at the SA Army Headquarters unit and has also had a reserve force unit named after him, the old SA Irish Regiment in Kensington. The men and women in our armed forces have been in the eye of the storm of the coronavirus pandemic, assuming roles that have been arrogated to them by the Commander-in-Chief, acting in accordance with the provisions of the Constitution and the Defence Act. Our role as the defence establishment has been to ensure support for the fight against the pandemic through the National Department of Health by providing the required expertise inherent in our SA Military Health Services, SAMHS.
We have the provided health professionals across the spectrum in all the provinces, drawn from the regulars, reserve forces and volunteers. The health care professionals provide services to our members and the National Health Department – through primary health care teams for screening, testing and tracing purposes across the country; mass quarantine sites, for instance, in KwaZulu-Natal, Western Cape, Gauteng and Limpopo respectively; decontamination teams, to mention but a few tasks.
As I speak on this debate, a team of our military health professionals have been deployed to the Eastern Cape at the request of the premier, which is additional to what we already have there. That is just one part of a range of deployments we have been involved in. We are central to the deployment of forces as an integral part of the enforcement of the National State of Disaster. In addition to the military health elements, there is a range of capabilities that have been deployed, including but not limited to the following: engineers for bridge-building which is an ongoing programme and water purification in various communities; air defence and maritime capabilities; landward capabilities for security and direct support to the police services and other government entities.
We have since the beginning of the declaration of national disaster, by means of the lockdown, run all these operations related to the COVID-19 under the ambit of Operation Notlela, which means, Lockdown. Hon members, let us pause for a moment to examine what has all this meant in real terms, from a financial and human resource point of view in our deployment of forces. One of the key pillars is the defence in support of our people.
On 24 June, this year, the Minister of Finance announced that the Special Defence Budget allocation for the fight against COVID-19 was an amount of R3 billion. These funds will be for the operational costs associated with the fight against the pandemic, as well as the procurement of personal protective equipment, PPEs. For our purposes, this will go through costs already incurred and others still underway, including repatriation flights; quarantine costs; deployment of reserve forces; air support operations; quarantine clinics; medical equipment and ambulances.
As of 15 July 2020, financial authorities were issued ... worth R1,7 billion, of which R906 million has been paid. I wish to take this opportunity to thank National Treasury for the fight against the COVID-19 allocation, which comes as a silver lining to the pandemic. We will ensure that this leaves a legacy.
This allocation is made against the background of a declining defence budget and capabilities. Despite these severe budget cuts, we are doing all we can to fulfil our constitutional mandate. This will not be for long, for we are now in a situation where our budget has been cut beyond the bone. The Special Defence Account SDA, a key instrument to enable us to execute our approved defence acquisition projects, is nearing its demise.
This means that major acquisition projects for the landward forces and maritime forces are under serious threat from non-completion.
These budget reductions continue to have an adverse effect on the SA National Defence Force, SANDF, capability, sustainability and modernisation of defence prime mission equipment and the defence industry as a whole. Armscor will also have to reduce projects from 39 down to 15 in the current financial year and zero in 2021- 2022. These reductions will negatively affect the Defence Review 2015 milestone of arresting the capability decline. There will also be the general loss of capacity within the defence industry as a result of the reduced Department of Defence spending. Between 2017 and 2020, there have been losses of up to R7 billion in revenue, a significant dent in the GDP. The workforce has declined from 15 000 to 12 000 in the same period.
These developments will also result in the inability to meet future SANDF requirements for critical capabilities. It will also hamper support to the national government imperatives and implementation of the Defence Review of 2015. The function and activities of the defence establishment have not stopped due to COVID 19, defence is still deployed in domestic and international obligations as part and parcel of the mandate.
In real terms, this means the commitments have increased over and above what we already had under normal circumstances. In our
deployment in Democratic Republic of Congo, DRC, under the United Nations Organization Stabilization Mission in the DR Congo, MONUSCO, mandate, we have been central in the fight against negative forces through the Force Intervention Brigade, FIB, of which we are the lead nation, that includes Tanzania and Malawi. We shall be further engaging with the Southern African Development Community, SADC and the United Nations in the immediate period about the planned reconfiguration of the FIB. Just like the rest of the country and the world, we have continued support to our troops in the midst of the pandemic. They are also faced with the Ebola epidemic in the Democratic Republic of Congo. We continue to take measures to ensure their safety as they continue with their deployment.
It is also with honour and pride that I announce that one of our senior officers, Brigadier General Dyakopu, has been appointed force commander of the FIB, taking over from our own, Major General Njabulo Dube. As the budget continues to decline, we are forced to scale down on our capabilities. We have, for instance, over the years, indicated that for effective border safeguarding, we need at least 20 companies but we still have 15, and will not have that in the foreseeable future but it is good to note that the President has now signed the Border Management Authority Bill
that will strengthen and enhance our work of border safekeeping and border management as a cluster chaired and led by the Department of Home Affairs.
On governance matters, we continue to have audit qualifications that we are addressing in earnest within the department, working closely with the Auditor-General and National Treasury for a turnaround whilst ensuring consequence management. During the 2019 Defence Budget Vote, I had committed that there will be action plans monitored continuously. To this end, the Internal Audit Division was tasked to monitor the implementation plans for corrective measures across services and divisions. We are striving for a clean audit and have been able to resolve the audit qualification on movable, tangible capital assets with the concurrence of the Auditor-General and Treasury.
The Internal Audit Division is fully functional and is assisting the department in strengthening internal controls and procedures under the guidance of our Audit Committee whom we wish to thank. As we deliver this Budget Vote, we are seized with a different national crisis that requires the attention and action of all of us, men and women. The country continues to suffer under a scourge of gender-based violence wreaking havoc in our country and the
SANDF is not immune to this scourge. I have consistently condemned the prevalence of sexual abuse and exploitation amongst members of the SANDF deployed in the eastern part of the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Unfortunately, these cases are not confined to members of the SANDF deployed externally. We have since appointed a Ministerial Task Team to investigate the legal frameworks in place, the procedural processes in reporting and managing cases and the sentences meted out in finalised cases. This is in an effort to develop a comprehensive response for the SANDF to protect all its members, as well as civilians in deployment areas, against such incidents.
It is expected before the end of this year that the team would have finalised its report and shall have presented its recommendations some of which will put transitional arrangements in place so that we can, moving forward, protect the victims that came forward and entrusted them with their cases. I expect the team’s work to be finalised soon.
I wish to express gratitude to the Department of Defence for the lifeline it extended to the Castle of Good Hope. They have responded generously and transferred relief funding of R3 million to the castle. Finally, I wish to conclude by honouring the
Secretary for Defence, Dr Sam Gulube, who is officiating in his last Defence Budget Vote, having been at the helm since 2012. He has also harnessed the Justice Crime Prevention and Security Cluster as well as leading senior officials in support of the cluster and all of the government. He has also been leading in the fight against COVID-19 and completes 45 years of service to the people of South Africa as he goes into retirement. The President – and I am happy to announce this - has since appointed ambassador Sonto Kudjoe as our new Secretary of Defence, effectively from 1 August 2020.
I also take this opportunity to express my gratitude to the outgoing Armscor Board of Directors who have done a sterling job in steering our defence acquisition agency for the previous period. Steps are underway now to appoint a new board of directors. I wish to extend my appreciation to the committees, both the portfolio committee and the joint standing committees.
I also wish to extend my appreciation of the men and women in uniform led by the Military Command Council and their civilian colleagues led by the Defence Secretariat Council and the entire defence establishment for the support that they have provided me in the execution of responsibilities. I thank you, hon members.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Thank you, hon Minister and we wish you a 100% speedy recovery as well.
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Thank you.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): I now recognise hon V C Xaba, Nonkosi. Hon member, Nonkosi?
[CONNECTION LOST AND THERE IS RADIO SILENCE]
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Our apologies, hon members, we were all frozen. Now, I recognise hon Xaba. Am I audible?
[CONNECTION LOST AGAIN]
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon members! Okay! Okay!
[NO AUDIO]
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): No, we are all frozen.
[NO AUDIO]
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): No, the IT
department is attending to it and the Table is assisting us.
[NO AUDIO]
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Am I now audible, hon members? Hon members? Am I audible now? Okay! Thank you very much, hon members. Our apology for that. We were ... thank you very much, hon Minister. We wish you a speedy recovery. Now I recognise the hon V C Xaba. Hon Xaba? I will phone the front Table again to assist us
[NO AUDIO]
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon Xaba! I seem not to see him here on the list of attendees.
AN HON MEMBER: No, no, Chair, you can ... [Inaudible.] ... [Interjections.] ... please.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): No, no, one
second. No, it doesn’t work that way, hon member.
AN HON MEMBER: It does. We cannot wait forever. [Interjections.]
Mr X NGWEZI: Hon Chairperson Lesoma, may I please address you? [Inaudible.] May I please address you on a point of order?
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): ... [Inaudible.]
... and I will revert to all hon members ... [Inaudible.] You may, hon member.
Mr X NGWEZI: Hon Chairperson, on a point of order: I think we have a problem here because the procedure is that we must raise hands rather than shouting, but who is noting our hands because my hand has been up for maybe the last five minutes and nobody is noting our hands. And perhaps we want to assist and the frustration that members are showing is understandable. It comes out of what is happening here.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Okay! Thank you, hon member. Hon ... [Interjections.]
Mr T S MPANZA: Chair, can I also say something, Chair?
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): No, hon members, I am able to see the hands that are up and your hand, hon Mpanza, is not up. I apologise on behalf of the IT department because it was IT that had a problem and all of us were frozen and it might be in that process, hon Xaba, was then logged out. Hon Xaba?
Ms O M C MAOTWE: Hon Chair, then we can’t wait forever. I am saying, let’s move and come back to him but we can’t continue waiting here forever. [Interjections.] No!
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon member, you know how to use the hand for a point of order. You are going to raise your hand ... [Inaudible.] ... [Interjections.]
Ms O M C MAOTWE: I’m raising it. Can you recognise me? I am
raising it. I have raised it.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon Maotwe, I am recognising you.
Ms O M C MAOTWE: Hon Chair, I have a point of order. You have called hon Xaba for a very long time. If he is kicked out, you can’t sit here and hope that he is going to log on within a second. Let’s move on with the programme and you can still come back to him.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Is that a point of order? Hon members, I will now recognise hon Marais from the DA. Hon Marais.
Mr S J F MARAIS: Chair, if only I can be allowed onto my, my, my screen chairperson. Can you, can you please arrange that my camera, my video can show?
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Can you just ... hon member, you can operate from your side.
Mr S J F MARAIS: It says you cannot start the video because the host has stopped it. So it must be changed. But, let me start ... [Interjections.]
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon member, I have given you a chance to start, I am timing you.
Mr S J F MARAIS: Chairperson, The Department of Defence and its defence capability has been deteriorating over many years, surely, in part, as a result of sharp declining budget allocations. But mainly because of poor management and the lack of reform and reprioritisation of the expenses by both the executive, including the Ministry and the Presidency and the defence management.
I have raised the need for urgent and decisive interventions, and while the Defence Minister has acknowledged the need to reform and review the mandate and focus, it does not seem there is an appetite for this from both the Minister and the department. There are so many dedicated and excellent soldiers who will give their life to South Africa, however, often they seem to have been left on their own. We honour them and express our sincere appreciation to them and their families, especially those who have been deployed to help and contain the COVID-19 pandemic.
It was such a disappointment to experience the irresponsible utterances and ill-discipline by the senior officials, including the Minister, the Chief of the SA National Defence Force, SANDF, the Chief of Staff and Chief of Joint Operations when they justified and supported the manhandling and abuse of civilians in their neighbourhoods by a few soldiers during the last four months
in supposed support of the police to fight the COVID-19 pandemic. It, therefore, came as no surprise that some soldiers followed this example, clearly as they believe they will be protected by the senior management. This was best illustrated by the Collins Khosa case where the Chief of the SANDF allowed an investigation and outcome at the speed of light, which then resulted in the embarrassing different interpretations by the SANDF and the Minister on the status of the case.
The case was poorly handled and conducted. It ignored thorough investigation of all the facts and exonerated the soldiers in an embarrassing way that is perceived to be a cover-up. In the process, the Military Ombud’s investigation into the case was undermined and the Audi alteram partem rule was ignored.
Our soldiers have been sent into urban areas without adequate and specialised training to operate in an urban environment. Soldiers should not be sent into our streets and abuse the civil liberties of our citizens who are not our enemy. Their exposure to the
COVID-19 virus was not properly foreseen and as a result, a number of soldiers got infected and did not receive speedy attention. The defence budget was already in a desperate situation with an expected R3 billion overrun mainly as a result of human resource
costs that is now more than 60% of the total budget compared to 40% as prescribed. The Emergency Budget will exacerbate this predicament where firstly the department requested an additional R4,5 billion, the Treasury only approved R4,1 billion, and of that, only R2,88 billion will be new and extra funds. In reality, the department will experience an additional shortfall of
R1,6 billion that must be added to the original R3 billion.
Keeping in mind the additional budget request and allocation was only for the deployment until 26 June 2020. With the extended deployment costs of R1,5 billion until the end of September 2020 and the expected further extended deployment towards the end of the year, this shortfall predicament will become a catastrophe and an international embarrassment very soon. Our once proud air force and navy fleets are falling apart as no funding is available via the Special Defence Account to replace and maintain strategic aircraft, our frigates and submarines and to complete Projects Biro and Hotel.
With the further reliance on the reserve force to not only fight the pandemic but to assure compliance with our other strategic operations, especially Operations Corona and Mistral, we must expect much bigger trouble and budget shortfalls. Our soldiers
should primarily be utilised and employed to protect our land, sea and air borders, the integrity of South Africa and not to fight civilians in our neighbourhoods. Our land borders with Zimbabwe, Mozambique and Lesotho should be a much bigger priority where we urgently require the extra deployment of properly resourced companies to prevent the illegal border crossing, movement of persons and goods.
We are facing the challenges of a destabilising Southern African Development Community, SADC, region by the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, ISIS, cells in Cabo Delgado. And while many acknowledge the threat, nobody wants to discuss it. There are contradicting responses by the Minister to our committee, Minister Mthembu to the Joint Standing Committee on Defence and Minister Pandor.
Despite promises of closed session meetings on this subject, nothing has materialised.
The SANDF’s role in Operation Notlela must be scaled down and not fight civilians in the streets but to provide services like cordoning off specific areas, assisting with roadblocks and providing humanitarian relief by especially the SA Military Health Services, the air force and the engineering formations. It is now up to you, Minister, and the Commander-in-Chief, to act urgently
to save the SA National Defence Force and comply with the constitutional prescriptions to protect our nation. This emergency Budget will not be money well-spent and will speed up the further deterioration of our once proud defence force. Give me the opportunity to express my appreciation to the Secretary of Defence for the services that he has delivered and we wish him a prosperous and well-deserved retirement. I thank you.
Mr W T I MAFANYA: Greetings to the president of the EFF, Julius Sello Malema, the deputy president, Floyd Shivambu, commissars and fighters, I also wish the Minister a speedy recovery from this dreadful disease COVID-19. Minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula has been a Minister of Defence and Military Veterans since 2012. She became the SA National Defence Force and Military Veterans Minister against a background of the notorious arms deal corruption scandal, billions of rand were lost and never recovered, nobody was held accountable. It became normal in the ruling party.
Minister, you should have known better that your term of office in the Department of Defence will always be under scrutiny. The 2011 Military Veterans Act was established to address the wellness of military veterans and their dependents. It is nine years to date
wherein the Department of Military Veterans cannot manage and establish a credible database of military veterans. Their dependants of school-going age cannot access institutions of learning because of the failure of the department to pay institutions on time. The few that managed to enrol remain unsure of their future as the department has signed a pact with the most untrustworthy National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, bursary scheme that currently has failed ordinary students who have been expelled from rented student accommodations and forced to abandon their studies in the middle of the academic year.
Non-statutory forces from the ranks of the Azanian People's Liberation Army, Apla, uMkhonto weSizwe, the Azanian National Liberation Army, Azanla, remain homeless, begging for accommodation and renting in shacks. A former Apla combatant, namely Mkhulule Prince Mabandla, just to name one amongst many fighters, is a victim of a flawed database and incompetence of the department. These men and women engaged with the nonsensical, brutal apartheid regime. They were once praised and worshipped when De Klerk’s government crumbled under heavy artillery from such honourable fighters who were on the picket lines. You are today in Parliament being chauffeur-driven with security guards while they suffer under your command structure.
The SANDF has spent almost R900 million on food and catering per annum. Guess what? Investec is the one supplying food to your department. The department established a project called Kuba- Tlala, the purpose of the project was to create employment in the food value chain and produce enough food that could also benefit the needy and the country. [Interjections.]
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): One minute, hon member. Hon members, mute your mics, please. You may proceed.
Mr W T I MAFANYA: Okay! Resources are availed to kick-start the project. There has never been an impact study conducted and it is also a failed project yet millions of rand were spent. There are almost 73 000 soldiers deployed to thousands of police to curb the scourge of COVID-19 infections. To date, there are 394 948 COVID-
19 infected people, which is a clear indication our soldiers are nowhere near to defeating the virus.
Minister, you failed to rejuvenate the SANDF. You failed to renew the ageing military hardware and vehicles. The only military hospital in Tshwane is in a dilapidated state, roofs are leaking on rainy days, medical equipment is dysfunctional and old. The same soldiers who pride themselves are succumbing to the disease
due to poor maintenance of the health infrastructure. The soldiers’ military accommodation is inhabitable. The Tshwane military base is a typical example of such horrendous accommodation. The list is long to mention here. Minister, you were the one agreeing with your subject generals, who contemptuously emphasised that they listen to no one but only to Mr Ramaphosa. They vowed to react when provoked by unarmed civilians. Collins Khosa and others died at the hands of the soldiers and police who were armed with assault rifles, instead of showing remorse, they attempted to manipulate the case like the Marikana Massacre where there is no one to account for such atrocities.
Minister, the Military Ombudsman is completed. It is the entity for aggrieved soldiers and personnel. Soldiers remain suspended and expelled unfairly with no recourse. There are air force members in Mpumalanga who won a case against the department to be reinstated yet nothing is done to bring relief to them. Armscor has presented the capability and capacity to produce PPEs, sanitisers, and good quality ventilators. The department opted to purchase the ventilators in China, as a result, creating more employment for the Chinese in China. Just a fraction of the PPEs is manufactured locally. The rest is sold to the department by the
monopoly industries, for example, Investec. After careful consideration, the EFF rejects the Budget Vote. Thank you.
Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Chairperson, all Ministers and members, the Department of Defence is one of the few departments whose budget has been revised upwards to assist in its support of the national COVID-19 response programme. This function will remain a primary one as the positive cases continue to rise across the country. It is important to note that while the adjustment by R2,88 billion is significant and necessary, it does not align with the costs of the SANDF deployment.
As the National State of Disaster continues to be extended, the cost of maintaining our troops will climb proportionally. These costs include compensation, health care, protective equipment and operational expenses associated with roadblocks and air support. The department has the enormous task of ensuring that our borders are free from illegal intruders who enter our borders without the necessary documentation. These borders cover both those that extend into the sea and those that stretch across the land, separating us from Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Botswana and Namibia. The biggest challenge the department faces in executing its duties is the dilapidated condition of equipment such as the vehicles. It is
difficult for the department to effectively secure our borders and fulfil other constitutional mandates without functional and essential tools of the trade. Responding to the challenges such as illicit cross border trade, breaching of fences for ivory poaching, and other unlawful conduct like vehicle hijackings, need adequate support.
Another necessary addition is an up-to-date technology apparatus at our borders. This requires finances. The IFP acknowledges and respects the country's dire financial situation. However, we believe the department should receive yet more financial support. This bearing in mind the ongoing negotiations between the department and Treasury. Issues such as the poorly resourced military hospital that is forcing members to opt for private or public hospitals must be addressed.
Finally, socioeconomic assistance for military veterans and their dependents will take a significant blow with the downward adjustment of R137 million from the Department of Military Veterans. At present, there are extremely limited mitigation options for educational and housing support which form part of the primary Department of Military Veterans programmes. We urge
Treasury to consider this a vulnerable group, especially over this period. The IFP welcomes and supports the Budget. I thank you.
Afrikaans:
Dr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Voorsitter, ek wil begin deur te sê dat ...
English:
... for the last 15 years, I have complained that the budget for the SA National Defence Force is inadequate. We see now that the budget for 2021 is about R52,4 billion. With this additional budget that is ... [Inaudible.] ... another R2,38 billion. [Interjections.]
Afrikaans:
Die vraag wat ons egter vir onsself moet afvra is dat ... die President het, in terme van die Grondwet, van sy magte gebruik gemaak om lede van die Suid-Afrikaanse Nasionale Weermag, SANW, te ontplooi in terme van die bestryding van die COVID-19 virus. Op
25 Maart het hy 2 820 ontplooi, later ... [Onhoorbaar.] ... tot ongeveer 76 000 van die SANW.
English:
Mr T M MMUTLE: Chair, on a point of order! Chair! Order, Chair! Chairperson, order!
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon Thabo, what is the point of order?
Mr T M MMUTLE: We can’t hear the hon member. Do we have any interpreting facilities on this platform? Because we can’t hear this language of the oppressors.
Mr W W WESSELS: Chairperson, on a point of order:
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon member, I will request the front Table to assist me on that one. I will come back to you. [Interjections.] Proceed. Your point of order, hon Wessels?
Mr W W WESSELS: Chairperson, that is not parliamentary what the hon member just said that it is a language of the oppressor. It is an official language of South Africa contained in the Constitution of South Africa and I ask you to rule the member out of order. It is completely out of order and unparliamentary.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Thank you, hon member, we will come back to you on that one. I still have to consult the Table on that one. Hon Groenewald, you may proceed. [Interjections.] No, hon Walters, I said I was coming back to you. You may come in with your point of order.
Mr T C R WALTERS: Chair, I have a point of order. Yes, please Chair, do it on this meeting slot.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Excuse me? Repeat yourself? Hon Groenewald, you may proceed and conclude.
Mr W F FABER: Chairperson!
Dr P J GROENEWALD: Chairperson, I cannot conclude, that you must understand very clearly. You ... [Interjections.]
Mr W F FABER: Sorry to interrupt, Chair, but Chairperson, there was a point of order raised and you must rule on that. You cannot come back on it later. Thank you, Chair.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): No! We have not concluded the business of the day. I will come back.
Mr T C R WALTERS: Chairperson, I would like to support my colleague’s point of order there. [Interjections.] Chairperson, it is a flawed ruling and please put that on record. It is unacceptable, absolutely unacceptable.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): No, that is fine, I will do that. Thank you very much. You may conclude, hon Groenewald.
Mr T MPANZA: Point of order, Chair! Point of order, Chair!
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon Mpanza, what is the point of order now? On a separate issue?
Mr T S MPANZA: Chair, I have a point of order. On the point of order. It is not a flawed ruling; you have not yet ruled. The meeting is still on. So, let’s allow the Chair to carry on and then she will make a ruling afterwards. The meeting is still on so it can’t be recorded that this is a flawed ruling when the meeting is still on. [Interjections.]
AN HON MEMBER: Chairperson, on a point of order!
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Thank you, hon members. May we proceed? Hon Groenewald, may you conclude your debate.
Dr P J GROENEWALD: Hon Chair, it seems some people do not want to hear the truth.
Afrikaans:
Ek het gesê dat, op die einde van die dag, het die President omtrent die hele SANW ontplooi teen ’n koste van ongeveer
R6 miljard. Wat nie verstaanbaar is nie is die feit dat toe die verspreiding van die virus nie hoog was nie, het hy omtrent die hele weermag ontplooi, maar nou dat ons die piek begin bereik, nou het hy dit afgeskaal na 20 000 lede. Die vrae ontstaan of hy weet wat hy doen en of die besluite geregverdig is.
English:
If I speak about the COVID-19 situation, I refer to the shame of the SA National Defence Force, and the shame is Collins Khosa and the question is, did we expect something less than this brutal situation of Collins Khosa? Can you expect that members of the SA National Defence Force will act correctly if the Chief of the SANDF, General Solly Shoke says on TV that the moment the SANDF
moves in its a matter of “skop and donner” and I will refer as
“klap” “skop en klap”.
I have referred this matter to the President because I sent videos where the Chief of the Defence Force saying that ...
Afrikaans:
... ons sal skop en klap.
English:
And then a video where soldiers in a military vehicle say that we are going to “skop en klap” the people and then a video where it exactly happens. It’s a shame of the SA National Defence Force, and I think that the chief should have resigned. But I didn't hear, either the Minister or the President, who repudiated him.
Furthermore, and lastly, I want to say, to the hon President, you made a huge mistake when you addressed the soldiers when they started the deployment to wear a uniform. The President, yes, is the Chief-in-Command of the SA National Defence Force but you are the symbol of the military and the representative of the people of South Africa.
Afrikaans:
Dit was totaal onaanvaarbaar. U as President moet juis die waardigheid hou en die balans van die belange van die weermag aan die een kant en dié van die mense ... Agb President ... agb Minister, tussen ... of saam ... het u twee dae ... het u die mense van Suid-Afrika in die steek gelaat. U het nie een aangespreek nie. Ek praat nie eers van die senior generaal wat minagtend in die portefeuljekomitee opstaan en sê ...
English:
... “I am not accountable to you. I only take my orders from the President”. Why are those people still in the SANDF? We say, in the Freedom Front Plus, that is ill-disciplined, unacceptable. I thank you, Chair.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Thank you, hon member. As I promised that I will come back to you, hon members, before I hand over to hon Shirley Makhubela Thabo, the “language of the oppressors”. I request that you withdraw. It is unparliamentary.
Mr T M MMUTLE: So, they did not oppress us?
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): No, hon Mmutle, I am directing you to withdraw. Thank you.
Mr T M MMUTLE: I withdraw. But that does not mean they did not oppress us.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): No! No! No! No!
Unconditionally. Withdraw unconditionally.
Mr T M MMUTLE: I withdraw unconditionally, Chair. [Interjection.] What about ... [Inaudible.] ... interpretation?
Mr V C XABA: House Chairperson, hon members, I don’t know where we
are. Must I start from the beginning, Chair?
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): Hon Xaba, I
recognise you. You are on the floor.
AN HON MEMBER: Start from the end!
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms R M M Lesoma): No! Hon members, on a point of order: Order! Order!
Mr V C XABA: Okay! On Saturday the committee was shattered at the news of the passing of one of its own, the late hon Martha Phindile Mmola, a vibrant, capable and hardworking member. We mourn her loss. Yesterday we woke up to the sad news of the loss of one of the outstanding leaders, a colossus and one amongst a few on whose shoulders we stand today, Isithwalandwe/Seaparankwe, Baba Andrew Mlangeni. We mourn and celebrate the revolutionary life of Baba Mlangeni, farewell comrades. Allow me to briefly reflect on the Adjusted Budget of the Department of Defence. I want to dedicate these remarks to the first Commander-in-Chief of the National Defence Force, President Nelson Mandela. The month of July marks the 102nd birthday of Madiba. It is befitting to remind ourselves of what Madiba said in 1995, on the occasion of the Defence Force Parade Day. Madiba said:
I want every member of the SANDF to know that my government and I regard the SANDF as a priceless national asset and a positive force for reconciliation. Keep up your magnificent work.
We can confirm that the ANC on whose behalf I am communicating our support for the Budget Vote of the Department of Defence, still maintain that the SANDF is a priceless national asset as Madiba
said 25 ago. Early this year, the World Health Organization, WHO, declared the coronavirus outbreak a global pandemic. This meant that countries of the world, individually and collectively, mobilised all internal and external resources to respond to this global pandemic. Following the declaration by the WHO, our government, led by President Ramaphosa, took a correct and decisive decision to declare the National State of Disaster. The National State of Disaster and the subsequent nationwide lockdown were intended to implement extraordinary measures to manage the spread of coronavirus and save lives. The nationwide lockdown also provided an opportunity for our country, especially the health sector, to prepare for the surging number of infections. This has come at a great cost to the fiscus.
Our country had to mobilise both material, financial and human resources to combat this pandemic. Naturally, the declaration of the National State of Disaster will require law enforcement. This means that our law enforcement agencies, including the SANDF, will avail their personnel and services to support and enforce the lockdown. When addressing members of the SANDF, the President said, the defence force will engage in a mission to save lives, to defend our people against an invisible enemy in the name of the coronavirus.
The President reminded the members of the defence force of the oath they took being faithful to the Republic of South Africa, to defend our people as subscribed to the highest values described in the Constitution of the Republic. He sent the defence force to support the police, work with them, walk among our people and defend them against the virus. The release of the members of the SANDF for utilisation by the Chief of the Defence Force in the fight against coronavirus was not the only deployment of the defence force. The President extended the deployment of troops already in the Democratic Republic of Congo, DRC, and those serving in the Mozambican channel. He dispatched the soldiers to China on a repatriation mission to repatriate nationals who were caught up in the midst of the raging virus.
We have 15 companies guarding our borders to ensure the safety of our people. We salute our men and women in brown. The air force is also involved in delivering supplies in the fight against the coronavirus. In addition to this, members of the Military Health Services have also been deployed to provide medical support in various parts of the country whilst the engineering section puts its engineering skills at the service of other sister departments and municipalities. The navy is on standby to ensure that the maritime route is not violated and marine resources overexploited
during the lockdown. This continues to put pressure on the budget of the department. These deployments of the defence force will require resources. The portfolio committee interrogated the Adjusted Budget allocation, overall, the Department of Defence has already received a net increase in its budget allocation but is still short of addressing the compensation of employee costs. That is a concerning matter, as a result of successive years of budget cuts. These increases for personal protective equipment and operational costs and other costs associated with roadblocks and air support. We note the import of COVID-19 lockdown on Armscor and the local defence industry as a whole as well as the Castle Control Board, CCB. The lockdown has affected these institutions negatively. We welcome the consideration by Armscor to suspend the performance bonus for the current financial year, among other measures, to absorb the budget cut.
We welcome the additional financial support offered to the CCB though it does not address the going concern status of the castle. We wish to convey our appreciation to the Minister for this gesture. We also wish Dr Gulube well on his retirement. The ANC supports the Vote. Thank you so much.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: House
Chairperson, thank you very much for the opportunity, allow me to recognise the Minister of Defence and Military Veterans, hon Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula, and the chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Defence and Military Veterans, hon Cyril Xaba and the joint chairperson of the Joint Standing Committee on Defence, hon Jerome Maake, members of the Portfolio Committee on Defence and Military Veterans and joint standing committee members, the Secretary for Defence, Dr Sam Gulube, the Chief of the SA National Defence Force, General Shoke, and the chiefs of services and divisions, the Acting Director-General of the Department of Military Veterans, Ms Nontobeko Mafu, colleagues, hon members,
“Lives of great men all remind us, we can make our lives sublime, and, departing, leave behind us, footprints on the sands of time.” The words of the sage American poet Henry Longfellow, captured the thoughts of many in our country and across the world today who came to know the legend of comrade Andrew Mokete Mlangeni, the very last of the Rivonia trialists to depart from the world of the living. Every generation must recognise and embrace the task it is peculiarly designed by history and by ... [Inaudible.] ... to perform. Regarding this view, Andrew Mlangeni, his co-accused and leader in the Rivonia Trial, former President Nelson Mandela had
this to say, “we tried in our simple way to lead our lives in a manner that may make a difference to those of others”.
Allow me, therefore, to join Minister Mapisa-Nqakula in dedicating my remarks this afternoon to the memory of Ntate Mlangeni, together with his comrades in arms who possess the will to die for their ideas in the face of brutal repression and massacres. They displayed what Chief Albert Luthuli referred to as the, “courage that rises with danger”. In this context, Andrew Mlangeni had the distinct record of having being among the first six black SAs to be trained in modern warfare and to carry guns, half a century since the last defeat of African societies in the wars of resistance to colonial conquest. Let me take this opportunity to congratulate hon Minister Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula on the courageous way in which is rallying her family to recover from the deadly coronavirus and also wish a speedy recovery to the Acting Director-General of the Department of Military Veterans, General Derrick Mgwebi. The supplementary budget we are debating today is the epitome of the unprecedented situation countries across the world are confronted with. The COVID-19 pandemic is the greatest public health and resultant economic emergency facing our country and humanity in peacetime history. It is laying bare the high
levels of poverty and inequality prevalent in South Africa leading to massive unemployment and suffering.
Just as COVID-19 came at a worse moment in the performance of our economy, characterised by a GDP that had contracted three consecutive quarters up to Quarter 1 of 2020. The same can be said about the state of our military establishment in our country. The defence budget has been on a downward spiral for the last two decades. It has now reached a stage where very hard questions must be asked.
What the COVID-19 pandemic has also sharply exposed is the constrained capacity of disaster management in our country. The question we must ask is, with the magnitude of disasters that we now know can befall us in future, should disaster management still be located outside the military? Military organisations globally are today increasingly designed to respond to contemporary threats over and above traditional deployment. In this regard the national disaster facing us whose worse moment is, by all indications still ahead of us, is a lived experience that reminds us that military capacities and readiness are not a challenge you can address in your hour of need. When disaster strikes are, you are limited to using only what you already have. You do not have time. Rather,
just as in life, you do not take life insurance because that is a death, you take life insurance in anticipation of death.
For the SA defence industry, the declaration of the State of National Disaster and the subsequent lockdown could not have come at a worse moment as the sector was already caught in a whammy of a declining defence budget, a seriously challenged Denel and constrained exports due to various challenges that included an objection to the end user certificates by key client nations. To make matters worse, COVID-19 is further aggravated by a terrible twin called junk status bestowed upon us by the rating agencies.
Members will take note that Armscor’s Corporate Plan 2020 reviewed the revenue generation and cost management targets and adjusted Armscor’s group’s budget allocations for the 2020-2021 financial year as part of the Adjustments Appropriation Bill 2020 tabled on
24 June. Among measures to limit the shortfall, is the freezing of salaries, voluntary severance packages and retrenchments if there is a reduction in transfer payments in the following years. The Castle Control Board of the Castle of Good Hope has worked passionately to promote the establishment by participating in several prestigious national and international fora. However, this heritage centre has the potential to flourish if reposition by
presenting its place in history objectively, transparently and legitimately. It is the only dramatic edifice of colonial encroachment and military authority we have available. It is in a league of its own as an education centre about the not so pleasant history of the so-called Cape of Good Hope and cut loose from the Department of Defence it can flourish as a centre of memory and serve a much bigger purpose.
The budget of the Department of Defence and Military Veterans for the financial year 2020-2021 was originally finalised at
R683 million. This was intended to compensate the ± 170 employees and to continue providing limited assistance to military veterans in areas where policy exist. A cut of R137 million has been effected to the budget of the department. It now stands at
R546 million. Several targets around some of the benefits have been revised down as a result of these cuts, most noticeably, is the decrease of about R90 million in the allocation to Programme 2, that is socioeconomic support. The real impact of this cut is still to be ascertained because these cuts are also based on spending patterns of the department in previous years. It may well be that the department was still headed for another year of underspending if these cuts were not affected.
The chronic shortcomings of the department remain poor planning. Only improved planning and the availability of adequate skills will ratchet up spending. Secondly, there are possibilities that, with poor alignment of policies, stretched out, and diligent collaboration with sister departments, some of these benefits can be delivered with the help of line function departments using their resources.
It gives me pleasure, in this regard, to announce that with the help of the Department of Defence we have reached an agreement to provide medical services to military veterans and their dependents who are in the Department of Military Veterans database for COVID- 19-related medical conditions. Relevant information, in this regard, will be communicated shortly.
The biggest handicap in looking after military veterans is the absence of a fully established department. Ten years later, the department remains a rudimentary structure in every way we want to look at it. The R4 million cut to Programme: Administration, for the setting up of provincial offices, is unfortunate.
Nevertheless, it must remain a priority for which savings must be realised in order to address it. In view of time, may I take this opportunity to, again, join Minister Mapisa-Nqakula in paying
tribute to the one and only Secretary for Defence, Dr Sam Gulube
... [Inaudible.] ... scientist manifesto for a mission well accomplished. He has undoubtedly set the standards very high in assisting the Department of Defence. Thank you very much, House Chair. Thank you.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: House Chair, thank you very much, let me start by saying that the NFP will support the adjustment budget tabled here today. Thank you very much, Minister and your entire team for the presentation that you have made. But let me also pay tribute to the late Collins Khosa who lost his life in an incident that took place. But what it does call for is to ensure that there is greater accountability with law enforcement be it the SA National Defence Force, Metro Police, SA Police Service.
I think what we must note is that year after year, the budget for this particular department seems to reduce and that tells us that indeed we might have a problem because we are not preparing for any eventual disasters that may come about and like all previous colleagues have said, disasters come at any time and we need to be prepared for that. Let me also add that there are lots and lots of local or international domestic threats in the country and that is why we need to have the SA National Defence Force equally ready. I
want to also highlight the challenges that are faced, particularly by the Khoi and San community and the Khoi and San Self Defence Units, who were never given an opportunity to be part and parcel of the SA National Defence Force and I'd like the minister to relook into these things and see if at some stage whether they can be accommodated.
My problem is that while the SA National Defence Force has been deployed to assist in ensuring that the COVID-19 regulations are implemented and there is a high level of compliance. remember that most of our infections are emanating from the townships at the moment and I find an absence of the SA National Defence Force, together with all law enforcement in these areas. So, I want to call for that to be strengthened, particularly in these areas to ensure that the curfew that has been put in place by the government and the stringent regulations are complied with.
So, we are calling on the department to play a more active role in ensuring that that that does happen. What we have noticed previously when the SA National Defence Force was deployed in the townships in the Cape Flats, what happened is they were working in isolation from the SA Police Service in the interviews that we have done. So, I think there needs to be greater collaboration
between the SA Police Service and the SA National Defence Force, who have been provided with an additional budget as a result of the President’s announcement that the SA National Defence Force will be deployed into these areas to assist, particularly with this COVID-19 pandemic that we have before us. The NFP supports this adjustment budget. Thank you very much.
Ms A J BEUKES: House Chair, hon members, citizens of South Africa, we want to extend our deepest condolences to all those who have lost loved ones. The ANC supports the budget allocation for the Department of Defence and Military Veterans. The Special Adjustment Budget set out the government’s initial economic and fiscal response to COVID-19. It fast-tracked normal processes to provide resources to frontline services, provincial and local government as well as households with a focus on the most vulnerable South Africans.
The revised budget also underlines the government’s commitment to stabilise finances. The reprioritisation of the budget is outlined by Treasury in main for performing essential services relating to COVID-19 response. The committee appreciates the defence forces engaged in Operation Notlela as a contribution by the defence force in the fight by the government against COVID-19.
Afrikaans:
Voorsitter, in die lig van die hersiene aangepaste begroting, wil ons eerstens die regering verseker dat ons trots is om geassosieer te word met die Suid-Afrikaanse Weermag, SAW. Die rol wat die SAW, veral gedurende die afgelope tyd, gespeel het, vir beveiliging sowel as met die nakoming van COVID-19 regulasies, het ons trots gemaak, reeds omdat ons in regering is om lewens te red en veilige gemeenskappe te verseker.
Agb Groenewald, ek dink ook ons moet meer op die positiewe reflekteer want dit balanseer verseker die slegte uit.
English:
We must, however, be cautious when it comes to the responsible spending of these funds. As an oversight committee, we will make sure that we monitor the spending as well as complying with the procurement processes and timeously respond. We will also make sure that those who are deployed far from home, safeguarding our borders, have the resources to be effective and efficient because the ANC is a caring organisation.
The department must conclude the policies and standard operating procedures and put measures in place to strengthen the internal
controls. One of the entities the lockdown affected immensely is the Castle of Good Hope as there was no income during this time because the castle relies on tourists for revenue generation.
Although the Castle Control Board is one of the smallest public entities, its performance in the past years demonstrated that it punched far above its weight.
It is a heritage body that is legally mandated to preserve, protect and promote the 354-year old Castle of Good Hope under the slogan, bringing the people to the castle the people and taking the castle to the people. Therefore, we need to ask ourselves how we, as the government, can utilise the castle as our venue of choice for our meetings and conferences, while still helping to preserve, promote and protect the aim of the castle. The Castle Control Board, CCB, has changed the image of the castle from a symbol of armed colonial conquest, racist exploitation and pain, to one that is inclusive, welcoming and healing. Its heritage programmes are bringing together all the people of South Africa, men, women and children.
The castle brings people together to learn about the history of South Africa, the good, the bad and the ugly. The CCB has now truly become a voice for history, heritage and culture. Therefore,
we want to thank the Minister for listening to our plea, to assist the castle and also the noble gesture of the castle to send back the money that they got from the UIF. The Department of Defence has statutory bodies and I think we must find a way to promote these bodies. It will assist us and it will make. [Time expired.] [Interjections.] Oh! In conclusion, Chair, we support the budget.
Ms M MODISE: Hon Chairperson, hon members, fellow South Africans, as we debate Budget Vote 23 of the Department of Defence during the birth month of uTata Nelson Mandela, we remember his words when he said:
Courage is not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.
The presentation of the 2020 Budget and its respective Votes is an instrument to finance the implementation of the policies of the ANC as the governing party. It enables us to fulfil our constitutional obligations and international commitments. The budget allows us to fulfil the promise of the masses, the people, creating a better life for all. The objective of the Military Veterans Act, among other things, is to improve the quality of
life of military veterans and their dependants so that they may realise their socioeconomic progress. The Act also seeks to recognise and honour military veterans in life and remembering them in death for their sacrifice on behalf of the nation. The principle on which this Act is premised is that of ensuring that, as a nation, we honour our heroes and heroines. Military veterans have devoted their lives to the defence of our nation. They contributed to the assurance of our sovereignty as a country.
The COVID-19 and the nationwide lockdown has had an impact on the socioeconomic conditions of all of us as South Africans and many around the world. The Department of Military Veterans has also not been spared from the socioeconomic reality. The budget reprioritisation has also affected the administration of the department, which will impact the programme of the workplace skills plan, also on the funding of the statutory bodies such as the SA Military Veterans Association, Samva, the Advisory Council on Military Veterans and the Military Veterans Appeal Board.
We note the mitigation measures proposed by the department and we are in full support of the proposal to further engage with the National Treasury on the funding model for statutory bodies. The hope is that necessary interventions will be developed to address
the shortfall. We also note the slow growth of our country's economy that has had a negative impact on the defence budget. There is a growing concern that the SA National Defence Force, SANDF, is in a critical state of decline, and the consequences of the budget cuts translate to the decline of the SANDF’s capabilities.
We are also concerned about the possible closure of the Special Defence Account, SDA. The country cannot afford to lose its sovereign capability and, as the ANC, we want to state it clearly that we do not support the closure of the SDA. No country in the world can function with a poor and weak defence force we strongly call for the Special Defence Account to remain and be funded adequately.
Our support for these revised Budget Vote is not blind support. We are conscious of the challenges that the adjustment has on the department but we are hopeful that the mitigating factors identified by the department will yield the desired outcome. The ANC supports the revised Budget Vote. I thank you.
Mr M G E HENDRICKS: Hon Chair, it is very comforting that she, the Minister of Defence is in high spirits, Al Jama-ah prayed for her
and her husband’s recovery and our prayers were answered. We support this budget and we do not know how the Minister can keep the country safe with so little money. So, she is doing a great job to give us peace of mind.
However, I want to bring to the attention of the Minister that we have many sailors at the Simon’s Town Naval Base where when the children reach the age of 18 they have to leave the base because there is no accommodation, and also their grandchildren and their children have to live in the nearby Masiphumelele informal settlement, where the African child lives and sleeps in sewerage.
Al Jama-ah has a signed petition 1 000 sailors, including an admiral, asking for assistance with housing. There is enough land available to house them. They earn enough money to pay their bonds but want land near Simon’s Town. They call it the Far South and that is the last white outpost in South Africa so it is very difficult to get land. So, we are going to approach the Minister to speak to the Department of Public Works to release the land and show that these sailors can also have the benefit of owning a house. It doesn’t mean if the army provides you with a house you mustn’t have a house in your name and your deed of sale. But we are going to approach the Minister and we will take it forward.
Lastly, we know about the problems in Mozambique and the concerns about the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, ISIS. The Minister must remember that she is fighting America and the Zionist apartheid, Israel and not the Muslim community. The Muslim community in South Africa is the most peaceful in the country. Thank you very much, hon Chair.
Mr T C R WALTERS: Hon Chair, when applying our minds to the budget for this department, we use the following criteria: firstly, the Armed Forces of any country, according to author James F Dunnigan, can be described as:
one more bargaining chip in a state’s international diplomacy. If war comes, the armed forces have failed in their primary purpose: To appear too strong to be successfully attacked.
Secondly - and differently put - our military has a constitutional role in protecting both our human and economic resources. Thirdly, our military has to support our police and emergency services within a very carefully circumscribed constitutional framework in situations of emergency and disaster. None of the above, given our
current geopolitical and internal settings, are “nice to haves” or
nonessentials to use the parlance of the day.
Hon members, applied to our context, it means that a basic minimum capacity and strength for the SA National Defence Force, SANDF, is non-negotiable and any budget that either underfunds our military or siphons off resources from all strategic needs cannot be supported. The desire for a well-supported military does not, therefore, equate to a desire for unnecessary expense, were vanity projects or simply an ongoing interest that needs to be satisfied.
A credible military is a societal investment in conflict avoidance to avoid the concurrent human and economic costs of warfare or insecurity. It is a societal investment in protecting jobs and the potential for job creation. It is a societal investment in being prepared and being able to effectively respond to exactly the kind of crisis that our country and the world is currently facing.
The DA - and let us be very clear – therefore, supports a credible military capable of preventing human and economic costs and seeks a budget that speaks to that. However -and that brings me to another criterion - that does not mean that the DA supports expenditure for the sake of expenditure. What the DA does not
support is luxury cars for top officers; the siphoning off of resources that detracts from a credible military.
What it does not support is the long-term underinvestment in our military and the misdirecting of its resources, whether it’s corrupt arms deals, keeping supporters sweet or very simply because of short-sightedness. It does not support expenditure that, as a former colleague in Parliament, David Maynier put it, “an armed welfare service” in a military where too many soldiers on the payroll do not fulfil the basic requirements of a credible military.
It is that type of expenditure that ensured that the basic criteria that the DA holds up in considering up support for this budget are not met. The DA cannot support a budget that slowly kills the constitutional mandate and strategic role of our military. I also would like to ...
Afrikaans:
Agb Voorsitter, ek wil baie graag vir u bedank ... u voorganger bedank, dat u die agb Beukes se huistaal ook beskerm het en dink daar is ’n geleentheid vir die volgende spreker om verskoning te vra.
Mr T M MMUTLE: Hon Chair, I also wish to take a moment and follow the queue to convey our deepest condolences to the family of Isithwalandwe, comrade Andrew Mlangeni, and appreciate the role he played with many others who departed before him in the liberation struggle. Their contribution is immeasurable. We also convey our condolences to hon Phindile Mmola’s family, friends and the ANC at large, she was serving with us in the Joint Standing Committee on Defence. Her contribution to the liberation of our people, and the women struggle, in particular, will never go unnoticed. May their revolutionary souls rest in peace.
We will continue with the struggle precisely because the gap between the rich and the poor continues to widen every day as a result of land disposition. The ANC concurs with all the ANC speakers in this Budget Vote that we are in a situation of a National State of Disaster, enforced through the national lockdown necessitated by the correct decision by the government, led by the ANC, to ensure that our country mobilises its resources in the fight against COVID-19. Ours is to ensure that we sharpen our ideological capabilities and never lose sight of the National Democratic Revolution. The motive forces of our revolution are still landless and poor. COVID-19 has deepened the socioeconomic
injustices leaving the majority of our people in dire poverty with many of them homeless and millions unemployed.
We stand here on behalf of the movement of the people, the ANC, to communicate our support for the revised Budget Vote of the Department of Defence and Military Veterans. We communicate the approval of this budget well aware that we are swimming in unchartered waters, as the president said, “we are crossing the river ... by feeling our feet”.
We have seen how the deployment resulted in the national dialogue on the conduct of the soldiers. We are of the view that there is no other leader of society except the ANC and it has a huge responsibility to educate society about the role of the democratic national defence force in terms of internal deployments and how they should relate with their defence force without each of the two parties being antagonistic towards each other. It is in the same breath that we call on the department to equally develop capabilities in this respect for future internal deployment. We have seen how the opposition attempted to grandstand and pointed fingers at the ANC government. And even today, we have seen how they continued to do that on the casualties that occurred under this deployment. We must remind them that in a war situation
casualties are imminent and we are not supporting any criminal acts by soldiers, and they must account for any action that they undertook against any prescripts of the law.
The political posturing of these opposition parties is worrisome. They seem to suggest that our people must be exposed to infections and their lives will not be protected under the pretext of the Bill of Rights. We wish to reiterate our support to members in uniform for the good work they are doing to protect and preserve the lives of South Africans. On this score, we urge South Africans to co-operate with law enforcement agencies in enforcing the lockdown regulations as and when they evolve. The defence force is deployed to protect lives.
We must reiterate that it is deployed to protect the lives of South Africans during this difficult period, not to do anything opposite. This requires the working together of the defence force with the people. We must acknowledge the frontline troopers are human and they put their lives on the line for our survival in this war against the invisible enemy. We are alive to the reports of allegations of heavy-handedness by law enforcement agencies as part of the operation during the lockdown. These allegations have pointed to some members of the defence force. We derive confidence
in the knowledge that the courts and the Military Ombuds office will assist in getting to the bottom of these allegations and that the law will take its course.
I want to put it on record or straight that hon Marais has lodged a complaint on behalf of the Khosa family and he couldn't provide the necessary documentation required by the ombudsman, as he acted as the representative of that particular family, making it difficult for the ombudsman to proceed with the investigation, but subsequently, the Minister authorised that investigation.
Hon Mafanya’s debate is misplaced, the Department of Military Veterans has got its Budget Vote and today we are not dealing with that particular Budget Vote. We need not waste time entertaining him. He has proven yet again to be a political zombie of hon Malema. [Interjections.]
AN HON MEMBER: Boo! Boo!
Mr T C R WALTERS: Point of order, Chairperson!
AN HON MEMBER: You are talking nonsense!
Mr W T I MAFANYA: You can’t talk nonsense like that. What are you talking about when you talk about a political zombie? Don’t do that. Don’t posture here. [Interjections.]
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M L S Makhubele-Mashele): Hon members! Hon members, I recognise ... hon Mmutle, hold it. I recognise the hon Walters.
Mr T C R WALTERS: Chairperson, on a point of order: I believe it is unparliamentary to characterise a fellow Member of Parliament as a zombie. A zombie is an animated corpse and I don’t believe that member is an animated corpse. I believe the ANC is an animated corpse. But I don’t believe ... [Inaudible.] ... that is appropriate ... [Inaudible.] ... and that hon member should withdraw. [Interjections.]
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M L S Makhubele-Mashele): Hon Walters, that is not a point of order.
AN HON MEMBER: Everybody knows ... [Interjections.]
AN HON MEMBER: You are out of order yourself. Toothless!
AN HON MEMBER: Chair, point of order on that zombie that has just spoken.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M L S Makhubele-Mashele): Hon members, order. Order hon members!
AN HON MEMBER: We want to address that zombie that is calling us zombies. We want to address the zombie himself.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M L S Makhubele-Mashele): Hon member, that is a reflection of a political party and a reflection on a political party is not out of order. [Interjections.]
AN HON MEMBER: No!
AN HON MEMBER: Don’t be biased!
Mr W T I MAFANYA: Julius Malema is a member of this House. Don’t
be biased. Take the point of order.
AN HON MEMBER: The Chair has made a ruling.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M L S Makhubele-Mashele): Hon members! Hon members, you are out of order. You cannot scream. [Interjections.] You cannot scream like that. You cannot all speak at the same time. I can only recognise one person ...
Mr W T I MAFANYA: Then give us a platform to speak.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M L S Makhubele-Mashele): You cannot all jump up and expect me to recognise all of you. [Interjections.]
AN HON MEMBER: Can you recognise me? My hand is up. How are you going to point ... recognise me, Chair?
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M L S Makhubele-Mashele): Hon members, you cannot all jump up and scream at me ... [Interjections.]
AN HON MEMBER: I am speaking. I am speaking now. I am speaking, Chair. Can the Chair be respected, please?
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M L S Makhubele-Mashele): ... and want to be recognised.
AN HON MEMBER: Who has recognised you? You are speaking ... [Inaudible.] ...
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M L S Makhubele-Mashele): Hon member! Hon member! I am on the platform. Hon Mmutle, can you withdraw the remark “zombie” [Interjections.]
AN HON MEMBER: To hon Malema!
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M L S Makhubele-Mashele): Hon members! Hon members, allow me to chair this session. Hon Mmutle, that comment is unparliamentary, can you withdraw them.
Mr T M MMUTLE: I withdraw the “zombie”.
AN HON MEMBER: You are a zombie yourself! [Interjections.]
Mr T M MMUTLE: You see now? We are being disrespected here.
AN HON MEMBER: That is just stupid, Chair. That is plain stupid. We are adults here. It is plain stupid ... here in Parliament.
Mr T M MMUTLE: You are muted, Chairperson.
AN HON MEMBER: You have muted yourself now.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M L S Makhubele-Mashele): I have instructed the hon Mmutle to withdraw and he has withdrawn. Hon Mmutle, continue.
Mr T M MMUTLE: Thank you, Chair. We must put it on record that the challenges faced by the Department of Defence cannot be reduced to the Minister while we know that the main challenge is the declining budget. False accusations ... [Interjections.]
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M L S Makhubele-Mashele): Hon Mmutle, unfortunately, your time has expired.
Mr T M MMUTLE: Oh! But how can it expire whilst they ... [Inaudible.] ...
AN HON MEMBER: You, zombie Mmutle, your time has expired. Go!
AN HON MEMBER: No, no, Chair, he was disrupted.
AN HON MEMBER: The Minister is the political head.
AN
HON
MEMBER:
He was disrupted, Chair. [Interjections.]
Mr
T M
MMUTLE:
That zombie from Seshego!
AN
HON
MEMBER:
You are a zombie Mmutle!
AN
HON
MEMBER:
Can you control the speaking, please.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M L S Makhubele-Mashele): Hon members! Hon members, let us observe the decorum of the sitting. Hon members, order.
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Thank you very
much, Chairperson and thank you, hon members, for the constructive debate. I welcome all the inputs made by the hon members. I welcome concerns that have been raised with regard to the defence force. I welcome all the observations that have been made by the members of different political parties about the conduct of the Department of Defence.
I want to assure hon members that we do have a SA National Defence Force, part of the Department of Defence, that is committed to the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa and, therefore,
committed to accountability to civilian oversight. The Khosa matter was raised and I do not intend to deal with the matter but I do want to assure hon members and the South African public that there are processes in place other than the board of inquiry that was completed some time ago. We have a joint investigative team, consisting of both the police and the defence force. We have an investigation that is running parallel to that is being conducted by the Military Ombuds. With all of those instruments, there is no way in which anyone would want to cover up for what happened. Let us allow the processes to be completed, let us allow for those structures to come and report to Parliament once the processes have been finalised.
A matter of the personal protective equipment, PPEs, was raised, that some of the PPEs were ordered in China, I think it was raised by a hon member, some were bought internally here, I just want to assure hon members that there is regular interaction between the Military Command Council and the internal audit of the Department of Defence under my instruction. I am closely monitoring what the department is doing with regard to the ordering of PPEs, we are monitoring the spending patterns, we are monitoring whether processes are being followed. We are also working very closely with Armscor to assist us in our acquisition needs.
There is a matter that was raised here by hon Groenewald, which is that of an inadequate budget and it is true that over the years, the matter of an inadequate budget goes way beyond 15 years back, right from the beginning, from the onset when the democratic dispensation was ushered in, one of the critical challenges of the democratic government was to ensure that the socioeconomic imbalances of the past had to be addressed. And one of the areas, unfortunately, that were identified as an area where we could cut off the budget was the area of defence. Little did people anticipate, I think, that as the country grows and as democracy is becoming entrenched, as we become part of the global village and, therefore, part of various multilateral institutions, the obligations of the defence force would increase.
We are part of the African Union. We are part of this region called the Southern African Development Community, SADC, and therefore, when decisions are taken with regard to a threat assessment be it in the continent or the region, you are bound to have South Africa being amongst countries that are at the forefront of dealing with that.
And therefore, of course, all of us need to deal with the issue of the budget decrease without any emotions, and I am happy that it’s
a matter that has been dealt with by all the political parties because it is a matter that we need to address in a very sober manner. There is a matter that was raised in passing by a hon member, that was the matter of Simon’s Town. I have noted that and it’s a matter I would like to follow up within and with the management but he then goes on to raise a matter that is very important, and that is a threat to South Africa, that is a threat to the region, also a threat to the continent and the global village, that of terrorism because he raises the matter of ISIS, for instance, and I do want to say that South Africa is committed to being part of all the structures that discuss issues of terrorism, that discuss the threats of terrorism on our continent and to our region, and, of course, South Africa is committed to all the decisions taken by both the region and the continent to the African Union to condemn the terror and to deal with issues of the threat to our country and our sovereignty. [Interjections.] Thank you, Chairperson, I do want to thank all the hon members for participating in this budget and for your well wishes. Thank you very much, Chairperson.
The ACTING HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M L S Makhubele-Mashele): Thank you. Thank you, hon members. That concludes the debate and
business of the virtual mini-plenary session. The mini-plenary will now rise.
The mini-plenary adjourned at 18:01
Audio
No related