Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised hansard
House: National Council of Provinces
Date of Meeting: 04 Jun 2010
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
FRIDAY, 4 JUNE 2010
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PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
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The Council met at 09:01.
The Deputy Chairperson (Ms T C Memela) took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon members, please bear with me. I’ve got flu, so I might not come across clearly.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council I shall move:
That the Council –
(1) notes that Minister Theuns Botha noted the long queues of patients at clinics and mostly early in the morning under unsafe and difficult circumstances;
(2) notes that Minister Botha therefore undertook immediate measures to address the safety concerns of patients at these clinics;
(3) further notes that he will explore the appointment system for regular patients to make reservations earlier, which is already being piloted at certain provincial clinics;
(4) acknowledges that he will also expand the province’s Chronic Dispensing Unit, which provides pre-packed chronic medication, to see if these packages can be delivered to people at home;
(5) believes that he is also in discussion with security firms to render services of safety to our people and many other plans of services; and
(6) supports the honourable Minister Botha in his endeavours to give a better service to our people in the health sector.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Tau, do you have a problem?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): Chair, I was just asking aloud which Minister he was referring to, because we don’t have a Minister Botha.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Okay, thanks. May I then allow the hon Ntwanambi to do the correction?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, in fact, I want to put an amendment in that Theuns Botha is a member of the executive council, because according to the country’s Constitution, there is only one government and only one Minister. I think I’m following up on what the hon Tau was saying - that’s the Constitution. Chair, I don’t think that I’m out of order. The Constitution of this country is above any provincial constitution.
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Chair, on a point of order: the Constitution of this country is above all laws, but this Constitution also determines that provincial governments can have their own constitution. The constitution of the Western Cape says that those who are heads of government departments are ministers. So, please go and read all the constitutions.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): May I make a proposal, hon members. Can we leave this for now, and I will come back to you before the end of the day with the correct answer.
Hon member, I hope you are not raising your hand to discuss the same thing because I have just made a ruling.
Mr A G MATILA: Madam Chair, I think we need to clarify one thing. If the DA wants to create a federal state, it will not be in this country. That’s what needs to be clarified.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon member, I have made a ruling. May we proceed? [Interjections.] Hon members, let’s not waste time. Are there further notices of motion?
Mr Z MLENZANA: Hon Chairperson and hon members, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council I shall move:
That the Council –
(1) notes with shock that more than 5 300 firearms went missing from police stations and offices around the country over the past two years;
(2) further notes with disbelief that a total of 457 of the firearms that disappeared over the two-year period went missing from the police head office in Pretoria;
(3) therefore calls on government to take decisive action against those in charge, as the loss of even one single firearm from a police station is one too many; and
(4) in addition calls for the Minister to resign if he is unable to put an immediate end to the loss of firearms from any police station.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Order! [Interjections.]
Mr Z MLENZANA: I move, I move, I move, Deputy Chairperson. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Order, members! Please!
Mr Z MLENZANA: There is one Cope. There is one Cope. [Laughter.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Order, members! Order!
COURT CASE CONCERNING COPE LEADERSHIP
(Draft Resolution)
Mr D D GAMEDE: Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council –
(1) notes that one faction leader of Cope, things fall apart, has gone to court to stop another faction from being elected and that Cope has now become Congress of the Courts; and
(2) therefore moves that both factions, or one of them, come back home to the ANC, as this has already started to happen in Gauteng and other provinces.
[Interjections.] [Applause.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Is there any objection to the motion? Okay. [Interjections.]
Can we have one person talking at a time? Otherwise, we will end up with a mess and will not make any progress here. There was an objection. In light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become a notice of motion.
WELCOMING OF SOCCER TEAMS AND SUPPORT GROUPS
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs E C VAN LINGEN: Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council —
(1) wishes to welcome all participating teams and support groups to the Fifa World Cup in South Africa;
(2) welcomes international soccer fans and tourists to South Africa, as well as all African supporters;
(3) notes that South Africa is now the soccer Mecca of the moment and a tourist Mecca between matches; and
(4) calls on all South Africans to treat all international tourists with typical South African hospitality and help build on the Fifa World Cup legacy promoting tourism, international relations and economic investment in South Africa.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
WORLD ENVIRONMENT DAY
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs A N D QIKANI: Deputy Chair, I move without notice:
That the Council —
(1) notes that tomorrow, 5 June 2010, marks World Environment Day, which is a day aimed at stimulating worldwide awareness of the environment and encouraging political attention and action on the environment;
(2) further notes that the theme for this year is “Many Species, One Planet, One Future”, which echoes the urgent call to conserve the diversity of life on our planet; and
(3) takes this opportunity to express its support to the United Nations and calls on the global community and the people of South Africa to heed this important call of protecting and preserving our natural resources and environment.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONGRATULATIONS TO AARON MOKOENA
(Draft Resolution)
Mr W F FABER: Madam Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council —
(1) notes that Aaron Mokoena received his 100th cap playing for Bafana Bafana on Monday night;
(2) further notes that the coach, Carlos Alberto Perreira, only had praise for Aaron Mokoena and described him as a special player;
(3) also notes that Carlos Alberto Perreira also said that Mokoena’s impeccable record tells of a player that Bafana Bafana cannot do without; and
(4) congratulates Mokoena and hopes that good luck and wisdom be granted to him, the team and the whole management and encourages them all to do us proud.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
WORLD CUP GIVES ECONOMIC INJECTION INTO SOUTH AFRICA’S ECONOMY
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council —
(1) notes that, while driving through the roads of Cape Town and going to the shops and shopping centres, one can see that hundreds of Bafana Bafana jerseys, flags and other merchandise are available to people to buy;
(2) also notes that the Cape Argus of 31 May 2010 reported that Adidas said that more merchandise had already been sold in South Africa than in the World Cup in Germany;
(3) believes that this economic injection into shops, small traders and informal traders is welcomed and that much more money will be injected into the economy nearer to 11 June 2010 and thereafter; and
(4) acknowledges that we as South Africans are blessed to have the 2010 Fifa World Cup here and thanks everybody who played a role in giving this opportunity to South Africa.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
BRUTAL SLAYING OF THREE BROTHERS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr T E CHAANE: Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council —
(1) notes the brutal slaying of three brothers, Xolisani Memela, Mzothiswa Memela and their younger brother Zi-khaliphele Memela, who were shot and killed by the police on suspicion of being criminals;
(2) further notes that the police claimed that they had been attacked by the deceased and had retaliated in self-defence;
(3) acknowledges that the case is being investigated by the Independent Complaints Directorate, ICD; and
(4) takes this opportunity to condemn in the strongest possible terms this incident and calls on the National Police Commissioner General Bheki Cele and the ICD to ensure that the case is prioritised.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Mr D V BLOEM: Deputy Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move on the next sitting day of this House as follows ... [Interjections.] Oh, this is supposed to be a motion without notice. Sorry, I was making a mistake.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Bloem, if you are still thinking about what will happen next week, could you take your seat.
Mr D V BLOEM: No, no, no, Madam. This is a motion without notice. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Mlenzana, there is a microphone. Follow the procedures, please. Let’s not fight over trivial matters. Respect has to be kept in this Chamber. Continue, hon Bloem.
ZWELENZIMA VAVI’S STAND AGAINST CORRUPTION
(Draft Resolution)
Mr D V BLOEM: Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council –
(1) notes with approval that Zwelinzima Vavi is taking a strong and determined stand against corruption in government;
(2) further notes that Vavi, on behalf of labour, is correctly asking the President to investigate extravagant and inappropriate expenditure and incorrect submission on the part of Ministers in Cabinet;
(3) therefore calls on the ANC to receive such criticism in the spirit in which it is offered, without turning on the messenger; and
(4) supports labour in its drive to achieve ethical, accountable and transparent conduct on the part of those entrusted with looking after the needs of South Africa rather than their own needs.
Mr A G MATILA: Deputy Chairperson, we want to object because we want him to start with his deputy president.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): In light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become a notice of motion.
I can only take one more motion without notice. And, according to the list, I will take the hon Maine.
REMOVAL OF CONTROVERSIAL OPEN-AIR TOILETS IN KHAYELITSHA
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M C MAINE: Deputy Chair, I move without notice:
That the Council –
(1) notes that the City of Cape Town has completely removed the controversial open-air toilets in Makhaza, Khayelitsha;
(2) further notes that –
(a) the residents who were made to use the topless toilets covering themselves with blankets rejected them because they wanted the City of Cape Town to provide them with concrete enclosures because zinc structures often blew away in the wind; and
(b) in response to the residents’ discontent about the zinc toilets and the subsequent removal of the topless toilets, the Mayor of Cape Town Mr Dan Plato uttered a reckless statement inciting violence when he called on them to toyi-toyi and burn tyres; and
(3) takes this opportunity to condemn with utter disgust the racially motivated attack on the dignity of the community by the DA-led City of Cape Town and the reckless statement issued by Mayor Dan Plato.
Mr T D HARRIS: Deputy Chair, I have a point of order. Rule 47 states that no member, while addressing the Council, may reflect upon any decision of the Council taken in the same annual session. I believe that motion is substantively similar to another motion that was raised. It was objected to, but it did appear on the Order Paper below the line. Therefore, that motion should be ruled out of order.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): I will answer that, hon Harris. May I be given the pleasure to answer it later? Thank you. May we proceed? We will now come to the motion as printed on the Order Paper.
RATIFICATION OF DECISION OF RULES COMMITTEE
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Thanks, Deputy Chair. I thought you’d given me half a minute.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): No, motion first. I was left with two minutes and those were consumed by the hon member.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chair, I move the motion ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): No, on the Order ... [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chair, there should be one presiding officer in the House. Nowhere in the Rules of the NCOP does it say that a member can ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Watson! Please be exemplary. Please could you be exemplary.
Proceed, hon member.
Hon Groenewald? [Interjections.] Sorry, sorry, sorry. [Laughter.] Hon Sinclair, could you repeat what you have just said now for everybody to know? Then I will take a decision.
Mr K A SINCLAIR: Yes, Chairperson. Firstly, I want to say that it doesn’t mean if you are white that your surname is Groenewald. Secondly, I said: “One Chairperson and one Chief Whip.” That is what I said.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Do me a favour: I have just asked a senior member of this Chamber to be exemplary. From now on I am therefore not going to accept any disobedience from anybody here.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I move the motion as printed in my name on the Order Paper as follows:
That the Council ratifies the decision of the Rules Committee to substitute Rules 14A and 14B with the newly adopted Rules 14A and 14B respectively.
Question put: That the motion be agreed to.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Motion accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
YOUTH DAY: YOUNG PEOPLE AT THE FOREFRONT OF UNITING OUR PEOPLE IN THE QUEST TO DISMANTLE ALL APARTHEID SOCIAL RELATIONS
(Subject for Discussion)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): Deputy Chair, hon members, I think one is quite privileged to be participating in a debate of this nature. This is a very important debate because without such a debate we, as Members of Parliament, would be negating, in fact, our own fundamental responsibility of shaping the future of this country. Today’s debate is based on a very important theme that reads: Youth Day: Young people at the forefront of uniting our people in the quest to dismantle all apartheid social relations.
Of course, in dealing with this, it would be important for us to reflect on what Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela said when he was reflecting on the Reconstruction and Development Programme of the country and its implications on young people, and I quote: “The youth of our country are valued possession of the nation. Without them, there can be no future.”
I think this particular quotation is also premised on a view expressed by the former president of the ANC, Comrade Oliver Tambo. When Comrade Oliver Tambo was making a point on the role of young people in shaping the future, he expressed the notion that a country that did not take care of its young people was a country with no future.
I think these are profound statements that, on their own, reflect that young people are central to the development of their country. At any point, they are located at a strategic point of directing the future of that particular country. Therefore, when one looks at the theme, which speaks about the dismantling of apartheid social relations, it also means that as we participate in this debate today, we need to ask ourselves a fundamental question, and that is: What are these social relations that we as a country and its young people need to dismantle in moving forward and shaping a new South Africa?
For obvious reasons, we need to look back and say that for us to be under these constructed social relations, there is a particular origin. That origin, which leaves us with these constructed social relations, is based on a particular philosophy - the philosophy of H F Verwoerd. This is because H F Verwoerd, in advancing his philosophy of apartheid, was to say that at the centre of it there was no need to teach a black child mathematics because there was no point, as that child would never be able to use that particular tool.
That philosophy then laid the basis to construct a particular society. It is through that philosophy that you then had young people being dislodged from the mainstream of development. Without science and technical knowledge, there was no way that young Africans in particular, and blacks in general, would be able to participate in the development of their own country.
In further deepening that particular philosophical posture, Verwoerd declared that one way of further constraining these young people was to ensure that they subject them to a particular line of thinking, which is that of seeing themselves as subjected to white people. Verwoerd’s philosophy of apartheid also subjected young people to a thinking that stipulated that for them to survive, they needed to see a white person as a superior person within society. To accomplish this, Verwoerd introduced what we call language barriers through the introduction of Afrikaans in schools for black people in general and Africans in particular.
This led to the resistance of 1976, when young people said, “No way, ours is not about these social relations as constructed by the philosophy of Verwoerd. Ours is about a country that is united, nonsexist, democratic and takes into account the values of all those who live in it. Therefore we shall resist the kind of systems that are being put in place to subject ourselves to the kind of situation that we are put into.”
It is through these relations and the advancement of this particular philosophy that even young people in the rural areas were subjected to old laws that were brought into place even before they were born. Those laws defined the rural areas as labour reservoirs for the mines and farmers, with those who laboured not having any rights. This meant that young people who were African, young people who were defined as blacks in South Africa, had no opportunities at all. As a result of the lack of opportunities, lack of skills, lack of knowledge and lack of empowerment they were then unable to participate in the construction of the South Africa they lived in.
Therefore, it is important for me to say this because the theme will then give rise to the questions: What is it that we need to do in order to dismantle these social relations? What is it that we need to undo that was done by the philosophy that was introduced to the African people at that particular point?
Of course, there is a response that has been provided by the democratic breakthrough of 1994, which, in the main, placed young people at the centre of development. That response placed young people at the centre of the reconstruction of our country, and at the centre of uniting this country. Furthermore, it placed young people at the centre of ensuring that in whatever way we democratise the country, at the centre of that process must be the beneficiation of anything for the young people and how they should be able to do those things. We can only find that in the Reconstruction and Development Programme, as adopted by the government of South Africa after 1994.
That is why there is the expression that says “the youth of our country is the valued possession of the nation. Without them, there can be no future.” It is on the basis of this that programmes developed for the benefit of young people over the past 16 years have seen so much progress, development and change in the lives of young people in this country.
We have, of course, also seen government coming forth in 2009 and asking how to begin to further place young people at the centre of development. We have also seen, in terms of the five priorities that government has put in place, that one of the key pillars that informed the government’s programme was education. With regard to education, we saw government splitting the former Department of Education into the Department of Basic Education and the Department of Higher Education and Training.
At the heart of that was the aim to dismantle what Verwoerd did and ensure that we reconstruct our country and the education system to respond to the needs of our young people. Through Verwoerd’s philosophy, we could not have had young people emerging as artisans. We could not have young people emerging as doctors. We could not see blacks in general and Africans in particular coming out as engineers and so forth. So the reconfiguration of the former Department of Education is in response to that particular philosophy. The aim is to dismantle it in order to ensure that our young people are then channelled towards skills are geared to ensure that they are empowered when it comes to issues related to science and technology.
Government has committed itself and money that has been set aside to empowering, reconstructing and strengthening the capacity of further education and training, FET, colleges. It is through these that we will be able to then regenerate the skills of young people for them to acquire artisan skills and so forth. This will enable young people to be self-employed and to get into the mainstream of the economy and become employable.
The other thing that we have talked about in terms of the five pillars is the issue of decent jobs. If one looks at the question of decent jobs and how these decent or indecent jobs have impacted on young people, one has to ask oneself the following question: Who are the people that are seriously affected by the labour brokers? It is the young people, because it is these people who are desperate and who want to get employment and so forth. Through the labour brokers they then get abused, enslaved and their pride taken away.
As a result, the question about this pillar of the creation of decent jobs and the call to revisit the constructiveness of labour brokerage is in response to and in protection of the interests of young people. Furthermore, it is also an instrument of dismantling the social relations wherein Africans in particular and blacks in general were always seen as labour providers and not as job creators and so forth.
One other pillar, which one cannot leave the podium without referring to, is the role of young people in terms of health. Young people today are at the forefront. We have seen the campaigns and the programmes that have been developed by the National Youth Development Agency around healthy lifestyles. It is these young people who understand better what a healthy body means in relation to job creation, the development of an economy, the sustenance of a society, and the construction and development of that particular society.
Part of the issues that young people in this country are geared towards, informed by this particular pillar, is the mobilisation of our people around healthy lifestyles. This is due to the fact that they are at the receiving end when it comes to issues relating to unhealthy lifestyles.
Deputy Chair, I can see that you are going to stop me. But let me just state that it is these young people who have been at the centre of the reconstruction and development of this country. The readmission of South Africa into world sports is due to the contributions of young people. Today we are united as a nation. We are enthusiastic and we are looking forward with great anticipation to being World Cup winners. We could not have done that if it were not for the young people of this particular country. As we speak today, the final 23 who make up the World Cup squad are, in actual fact, young people of this particular country, and they are going to make us proud. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr T D HARRIS: Deputy Chairperson, hon members, the week after next, on Youth Day, we will remember the hundreds of students who died on June 16, 1976, in the anti-apartheid cause and many others. We owe them a debt of gratitude that a debate like this is now possible in a free and democratic South Africa. [Interjections.]
But once we have paused to remember, we must move on to debate the issues facing young South Africans today.
Now, Mr Tau’s very eloquent important history lesson has comprehensively explained the starting point for many of the problems that we face as a country. It was apartheid. But every member of this House agrees on that. It is impossible therefore for me to debate something we all agree on.
I could debate this government’s failures to deal with those problems in the past 16 years, but I am not going to do that. Instead, I want to look at the solutions going forward, specifically how the ANC’s alliance partners are standing in the way of those solutions.
I don’t think that anybody would disagree that every other issue raised in this House today must pale in insignificance in the face of the fact that 3,1 million young South Africans are walking our streets, unsuccessfully trying to find work. Sixteen years later, the most lasting effect of apartheid social relations is seen in youth unemployment.
Two out of every five people under the age of 34 are unemployed. All in all, 3,1 million youth are without work, which is 73% of the total number of unemployed people in our country. The job crisis in South Africa is a crisis of the youth, not labour brokers, Mr Tau - because 3,1 million young people dream of getting a job through a labour broker, but they cannot find one at all.
It doesn’t have to be like this, and you will not be surprised to hear that the DA has a policy proposal that will help to create hundreds of thousands of jobs for South Africans. We call this policy a “wage subsidy”.
You may be surprised to hear, Deputy Chairperson, that the ANC government agrees with this policy proposal. In this year’s state of the nation address, President Zuma announced that his government would be introducing it.
Then, in the Budget Speech, Pravin Gordhan gave more details on the policy. He predicted that it would create half a million new jobs in three years. He said that a discussion document setting out further details of what he called a “youth wage subsidy” would be tabled at the end of March. The DA, the economists, the academics and civil society enthusiastically welcomed this new openness to fresh ideas to tackle youth unemployment, because a youth wage subsidy won’t result in lower wages and provides formal and regulated employment. Even South Africa’s second biggest trade union federation, Fedusa, welcomed it, saying: As Fedusa, we were very impressed with the proposed wage subsidy. We think that’s a progressive initiative by government.
Why then, if we have a new policy that will help fight youth unemployment that government, the opposition, civil society and Fedusa agree on, has Treasury still not published the document as they said they were going to two months ago?
The unfortunate answer is: because the ANC government tripartite alliance partners are involved in a power struggle for control of economic policy and political influence. They oppose the wage subsidy simply because it does not come from the Minister that is from their side of the Cabinet.
Their opposition is political, because they simply reject the idea out of hand by saying they have always objected to the wage subsidy. They are not even willing to engage it on its merits or drawbacks.
So, Deputy Chairperson, the National Treasury’s Youth Wage Subsidy Policy is now the victim of a fight for political influence between Cosatu and their leftist Ministers, with the ANC and their centrist Ministers. And while they fight, 3,1 million young South Africans remain unemployed. Based on the Finance Minister’s projections, the implementation of a youth wage subsidy would create around 17 000 new jobs per month. Every week it is delayed, it costs us 4 000 job opportunities.
Ninety years ago, William Butler Yeats wrote:
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold.
The alliance partners cannot ask 3 million young South Africans to wait while they squabble - the centre cannot hold. They cannot hold up policies that will create jobs for the youth. The pressure will become too much. If Cosatu continues to block the youth wage subsidy, the centre cannot hold.
Earlier this week, my colleague Lindiwe Mazibuko and I wrote to the President asking him to intervene in this policy deadlock. While we sincerely hope he does, we doubt he will because he seems compromised by the fact that Cosatu helped him reach the Presidency. [Interjections.]
Further on in the same poem I quoted earlier, Yeats wrote:
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
President Zuma cannot allow Cosatu’s passionate intensity to continue to undermine Finance Minister Pravin Gordhan’s conviction to implement this progressive policy. If he does, the centre will surely not hold, and the alliance will split.
However, Deputy Chairperson, the day it does will be a happy day for unemployed South Africans. On that day, the ANC will be free to implement universally accepted policies, such as the youth wage subsidies that will help to create thousands of jobs for young South Africans. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M C MAINE: Chair, before I start with what I want to speak about, I want to respond to some of the issues raised by the hon Harris. It is a myth that Cosatu helped the President of the country to become the President, because the ANC was elected by more than 10 million South Africans, and Cosatu has only 2 million members.
So 60% of the South African population has confidence in the ANC, and it can’t be true that the centre is not holding. Maybe the centre is not holding in the Western Cape, because the premier is unable to give clear figures as to how many millions were given to people whose contracts they terminated before their actual timeframes ended.
Hon Harris has nothing to say, because this issue of the wage subsidy has been adequately responded to by the Deputy President of the country in this House, when he said it was work in progress. The document is with Cabinet, because the Deputy President ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Harris, you’re very quick to refer to the Rules. Could you just give the person at the podium time, please. And if you want to say anything, could you go through the correct channels. Do me a favour: Sit down and be attentive. Continue, hon member.
Mr M C MAINE: Thank you, Chair. Lastly, it is again a myth to suggest and to mislead the people of South Africa that the tripartite alliance is engaged in squabbles. In the tripartite alliance we believe in engagement. We are busy debating and engaging with each other, unlike in the DA, where only the leader of the party can say what is going to happen. So, the alliance engages. There are a lot of us with different ideologies in the alliance. So it is not one person, as in the DA: Madam Helen Zille – whatever she says goes. Now, in the ANC and the alliance, we engage. [Interjections.]
Madam Chair and hon members, every year on 16 June South Africans celebrate Youth Day. This year the theme for our Youth Day is “Young people at the forefront of uniting our people in the quest to dismantle all apartheid social relations”. Whereas June is an important month on the calendar of our country, a day for the commemoration of the blood of young people lost in the struggle against apartheid, whose blood glorifies the tree of freedom we are enjoying today, it is also a day to celebrate the progress made by the generations of young people who followed the 1976 generation: their efforts and strides to build a united, nonracial and nonsexist South Africa ...
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Just hold on. Hon Mlenzana, do you have a point of order?
Mr Z MLENZANA: No.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): What is it?
Mr Z MLENZANA: ... [Inaudible.] ... if the hon member is ready to take a question?
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Not now. Do me a favour: Sit down. [Interjections.] Are you prepared to take a question, hon member?
Mr M C MAINE: No, Chair. I want to finish my speech. I won’t take a question.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): That’s the response. Continue, hon member.
Mr M C MAINE: ... their efforts and strides to build a united, nonracial and nonsexist South Africa and dismantle all apartheid social relations. Thus, I will confine myself to the post-1994 social relations and programmes by young people to unite our people, which underpin the work by the youth in various formations across the religious, political and cultural spectrums. Foremost, it must be noted that understanding the apartheid social structure and the current challenges facing the youth in South Africa will give credence to the efforts that ordinary young South Africans have taken to create a nonsexist, nonracial and democratic society.
The situation was comprehensively explained by Dr Blade Nzimande during the Jobs for Youth Summit, organised by the Young Communist League of SA, and I quote:
Ironically, the very problems facing our youth are exploited by other forces to create further problems and constraints. For instance, our youth today is a target of drugs, exploited by labour brokers, given false hopes and corrupted by tenderpreneurs and a target of decadent American values and cultural onslaught. Therefore sustained youth programmes by all youth formations are necessary to counter these problems. A key dimension of this is a sustained struggle to cultivate positive values among our young people: that it is good to be educated, service to one’s country and social solidarity, and to defeat ideas of dog eat dog.
We therefore support the National Youth Development Agency as a vehicle to unite further the young people of our country, and we further call upon the government to increase funding for this vehicle of youth development.
Following the recent racial outbursts and misunderstandings after the death of Mr Eugene Terre’Blanche and the singing of particular revolutionary songs, our country has taken positive steps, which have fostered social cohesion and national unity such as the hosting of Super 14 rugby matches in Soweto and the showing of support for Bafana Bafana by all our people, especially the youth.
Furthermore, one noteworthy development was a constructive meeting of the ANC and FF Plus held three weeks ago, at which it was agreed that there would be a follow-up meeting to take forward matters that were raised by the FF Plus.
The FF Plus raised the following issues: name changes in the country, use of Afrikaans as a medium of instruction in our education system, safety and security of farmers, issues of amnesty, self-determination, poverty and affirmative action. It is against this background that we urge all young people across the political spectrum to engage in debates inside their political organisations and youth organisations alike to give impetus to these debates about the aforementioned issues.
However, we should also emphasise that the concepts of nonracialism, social cohesion and nation-building should not take precedence over the genuine transformation in sport and recreation, in the economy of our country, including in factors of representation, selection on merit and resource allocation.
The Constitution of the Republic in its preamble persuades us, amongst other things, to recognise the injustices of our past, heal the divisions of the past and establish a society based on democratic values, social justice and fundamental human rights.
In conclusion, the submission by the ANC to the World Conference Against Racism held in August 2001 outlined the universal message and spirit with which to welcome the world to our shores during Youth Month and in celebrating 16 June as follows. The richness of the planet’s cultural diversity is in itself the latent all-embracing spiritual force from which we can create a world that is free of conflict and poverty, racism and intolerance. Through the centuries we have witnessed disregard and contempt for the inalienable dignity of human beings. We have witnessed barbaric acts that have outraged the conscience of humankind, and we have witnessed slavery, genocide, colonialism and war.
We have proclaimed that the advent of a world in which all human beings enjoy fundamental human rights and freedoms is the highest desire for all. I thank you, Chair. [Applause.]
Inkosi N B SHABALALA (KwaZulu-Natal): Hon Chairperson, hon members, one is privileged to participate in today’s debate about our young people. To understand the majority of our youth today, we need to understand the context in which they are living.
The key features of our country can be summed up as follows: the persistence of many features of apartheid; growing socioeconomic inequality; mass poverty and unemployment; declining living standards; and a devastating HIV and Aids pandemic - a pronounced feature of social disintegration. Despite all the interventions by the democratic government, young people bear the brunt of all these realities. This is the stuff of the youth in crisis.
However, the youth in their organisations in the townships, in the villages and on the farms of South Africa need to take advantage of the favourable legislative and policy framework for participation in processes affecting their needs and interests.
Organised youth should strive to participate in and influence every phase of the process of consultation, planning, budgeting, managing, monitoring, public feedback and review.
In order to know their rights, young people need to know the relevant provisions of the Constitution and the duties that the different spheres of government expect of them.
Local government, for instance, has a unique position in relation to local communities. It is closer to the people and more accessible than other spheres of government. Youth should identify a full range of specific demands around all these duties and responsibilities of local government.
The National Youth Commission has stated that local government is most strategically positioned to implement youth policy and youth work. The view is that local municipalities’ youth development visions and policies can be translated into services and facilities that meet the needs of the youth.
The dissolution of the National Youth Commission and the Umsobomvu Youth Fund, however, was not a surprise as it was a response to the failures of these bodies to spearhead development.
The mammoth challenge facing the National Youth Development Agency is whether it is capable of rising above the tripartite alliance politics in order to restore ownership of the agency and youth development itself to all young people, irrespective of political affiliation.
We are impressed that the NYDA has taken the initiative, together with the Local Organising Committee, to facilitate training of 15 000 youth volunteers. They are participating in road shows and targeting rural areas in order to mobilise the youth to rally behind Bafana Bafana.
With the 2010 Fifa World Cup being here, there could not be a better time for South Africa to show the world that sport does indeed inspire and unite people. The NYDA, as one of the high-level institutions focusing on youth development, needs to deepen democracy, encourage more inclusive policy-making and, especially, increase more public engagement and empowerment of young people.
Hosting the 2010 Fifa World Cup provides an excellent opportunity for young people in our country to gain skills and work experience in a wider range of areas, such as foreign language interpreting, call centre operating, tour guiding, marshalling and ushering, etc.
When the World Cup is over, that would be the time to intensify soccer training, the building of local stadia and to have administrative help, equipment and technical support for communities, so that kids can play the game regardless of their family’s finances, gender, geography, ethnicity or language. Funding will help improve public sports facilities across South Africa, further boosting South African sport and helping to build better and healthier communities.
Organised sport is being used throughout the world to maintain social cohesion and facilitate peace. As South Africa has a population of more than 9 million young people between the ages of 15 and 25, youth sport represents one of the most dynamic mechanisms in society for transformation, because organised sport can engage the youth of all races, genders and classes. Thank you, Chairperson. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr M WILEY (Western Cape): Morning, Deputy Chairperson. Thank you very much for the opportunity to be here today. ...“the task that we face is indeed a challenging one. But the cost of failure — for this generation’s children and the next — is simply too high to bear.” Those are the words of Graça Machel, the wife of Nelson Mandela.
Children and young people below the age of 24, who make up 60% to 70% of the population of most developing countries, represent the future generation, with enormous potential to achieve sustainable development. Youngsters especially – those between the ages of 15 to 24 - are able to contribute materially, through special skills, and intellectually, particularly with alternative viewpoints and innovative ideas.
The World Bank acknowledges, in its World Development Report of 2007, the youth’s positive potential not only in initiating but also in implementing positive social change, if they could only get involved through participation.
However, society has to provide a supportive environment, sufficient assistance and opportunities, first of all, by investing in the human capital of these young people through adequate education, health, employment and recreation possibilities. Only then are youngsters able to become responsible adults and achieve their full potential to contribute to society’s development and socioeconomic growth.
Yet the reality is that the youth are often perceived more negatively in terms of social problems, with society being reluctant or incapable of investing in the youth and/or involving them in the processes that directly concern them. This results in “depriving society of their energy, dynamism and innovative spirit”, and, through this disregard, turning the youth into an uncontrollable conflict situation.
Therefore, in the World Youth Report of 2007, the United Nations states that “engaging the youth fully in the region’s development is thus not a matter of choice, but an imperative”. Nelson Mandela, a former President, said as well that: “The experience of all peoples is that their freedom remains fragile and their rights empty shells unless they bring real improvements to the lives of ordinary people.” This quotation was taken from an address in which he emphasised that ordinary people needed to be given opportunities to bring about real improvements in their lives.
The youth of South Africa face many daunting challenges. Three million, as we have already heard, are unemployed. In the Western Cape the youth are no less challenged. We have an estimated 80 000 to 100 000 gangsters here in the Western Cape. The high levels of gangsterism and the associated social problems are the result of deteriorating social networks and of young people who seem to experience high levels of alienation and purposelessness. The vast majority of these youngsters are aged between 16 and 22 years. The majority of victims of crime fall into this category as well.
Positive male role models are often absent and this has contributed to a loss of self-esteem and self-confidence. This has led to some of the highest crime rates in South Africa and by far the highest drug-abuse rate by a factor of three.
Peer pressure plays an enormous role in this regard. Most young people lack marketable skills and have limited opportunities to participate in the formal and informal job markets. Many young people are waiting for opportunities to bring about real improvements in their lives.
The schooling system does not lend itself to artisan-based training, and many learners find themselves in conflict in the classroom because they are simply bored or are not suited to academic subjects.
Perceptions are that HIV and Aids and other social problems, such as crime, violence, abuse, drugs, prostitution, teenage pregnancy, substance abuse and parental neglect are wreaking havoc on the lives of young people. The irony is that for these very youth, the freedom and rights that seemed so promising after the dark years of apartheid are elusive and seemingly unattainable. The question needs to be asked: Where did we go wrong?
Since the Year of Youth in 1985, the United Nations has defined youth as being all young people between the ages of 15 and 24, taking into consideration the various concepts of youth in the different cultural and institutional contexts.
However, in South Africa, according to the National Youth Act of 1996, the term “youth” comprises a larger age group, including all persons from the ages of 14 to 35. These different definitions of age alone give an idea of the difficulties when trying to grasp analytically what youth in all their complexity mean.
In most of the literature, youth are simply connected to the concept of adolescence, which was invented in the early twentieth century as a universal linear transition period from childhood to adulthood, with a focus on physical and psychological development. In this phase, young people are facing various changes on different levels, especially owing to hormonal changes during puberty and trying to construct their own identity, so that adolescence is generally presented as a time of storm and stress, conflict and confusion, which makes them vulnerable to risky behaviour.
This is compounded in our system at the moment by too few male teachers acting as male role models. Little emphasis is placed on youth leadership, such as prefect bodies, and there is an absence of structured physical education in school. I could go on.
For those youngsters leaving school, especially the early leavers, there are very few clear-cut options. The military, in many countries an option for those needing a change, is essentially a closed shop in this country, with a very low volume of intakes.
Skills training appears unstructured, with too few options at the moment, and even a place like the traditional dockyard, which produced outstanding artisans in the past, has been lost as an option.
In the Western Cape we are working towards a comprehensive youth strategy. Already all departments have their own youth projects in place. One such department is the Department of Economic Development and Tourism in which they have a number of projects, like a new venture creation project for women, a public-private partnership for 100 females that will run for the next two years.
There is also the workplace skills programme, the contact centre, which is a call centre programme, and a tourism-based project that will take 400 disadvantaged people into this industry.
Significantly, today is the 10th anniversary of Project Chrysalis, which falls under the Department of Community Safety. This unique award-winning programme, now recognised both internationally and nationally, takes unemployed youths between the ages of 17 and 25 and puts them through three months of rigorous training. Training often lasts 18 hours a day. Emphasis is placed on physical, emotional and spiritual wellness while, at the same time, exposing the youths to skills opportunities and developing the full potential of an individual. Of the thousands of graduates, some are here working in this parliamentary precinct at the moment.
The essence of the training is based on personal growth and group discipline, teamwork, proper preparation for life, and one’s rights and concurrent responsibilities within a constitutional state.
Significantly, this approach has attracted many more applications than there are places available. The academy has had to stop advertising, and even three more such institutions would not cater for the volume of students applying.
Ironically, this approach is almost the opposite of the one taken by the government at the moment in approaching youth development, where malcontents are tolerated – eulogized, even. Their misbehaviour has seen destruction, disruption and dishonour wrought upon their generation and the country as a whole.
Simply giving money to misguided youths is like giving razor blades to a child, or substituting parental guidance and love by dropping your child off at the mall with wads of cash.
South Africa is missing a huge opportunity in youth development. There is a desperate need for inspired leadership on the matter. Ironically, our youth are hungry for challenges and not handouts. The problem lies with us, the adults, who are confused, morally bent and who shy away from reality – and we have heard about some of that this morning.
In the early 1930s, at the height of the Great Depression, Franklin Delano Roosevelt championed several nationwide initiatives to lift his country, especially the youth, out of poverty. One such project was the Civilian Conservation Corps. This project, a cross between our Expanded Public Works Programme and the Chrysalis model, helped millions of youths and laid the foundation for the most advanced parks service in the world today. Members would do well to Google this project and find out what it did for the United States.
There is a danger, however, that any person who feels that youth development is a chance to misuse our youth politically, to sell them an inferior product, or to create false expectations, is doing not only those youths a grave disservice, but undermining the nation as a whole. Leadership in this noble cause must be pure, uncompromising and focused on nation-building.
In that regard, I would like, if I may, Deputy Chair, to address myself to one or two comments that were made this morning, because I would have thought, as very highly paid public representatives, that we would know a little bit more about our Constitution. Here is a copy of the provincial constitution of the Western Cape. It is a fully authorised legal document. It came into operation on 16 January 1998. I have a copy here for the Deputy Chairperson, which I will give to the Table to pass over to the Deputy Chairperson.
Chapter 4 of the constitution says that “the executive authority of the Western Cape is vested in the premier”. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon member, could you stick to the debate, and your time ...
Mr M WILEY (Western Cape): In conclusion, Madam Chair, I think that it is very important when we debate enormously important topics in the House of this nature, which should be a beacon of hope for the youth, that we stick to the facts of the matter. The facts of the matter are that although I am a member of the Western Cape, because I may be wearing a Western Cape badge, I am a member and citizen of the South African Republic. [Applause.]
Mr K A SINCLAIR: Chairperson, thank you for this opportunity. My colleague - I would call him my honourable friend Tau - started this debate this morning. Now, unfortunately, because of all the hot air that he released here, I cannot agree with him.
Die agb Tau sou skynbaar vanoggend vir ons probeer oortuig het dat ’n waatlemoen en ’n boerpampoen dieselfde ding is, maar dit is nie so nie. [The hon Tau was apparently trying to convince us this morning that a watermelon and a white pumpkin are the same thing, but this is not so.]
It seems that he has selective amnesia, because I want to disagree with him on four levels.
Om die Verwoerdiaanse filosofie te gebruik as die enigste oorsaak van Suid-Afrika se ontwikkelingspatrone kan, verseker, nie waar wees nie. En dit is juis daarom, agb De Beer, dat ons die effek wat kolonialisme en apartheid op Suid-Afrika se ontwikkelingspatrone gehad het in ag moet neem. So, ons kan nie net op die invloed van apartheid fokus nie, maar ons moet ook gaan kyk wat die invloed van die effek van imperialisme vóór dit op Suid-Afrika se ontwikkelingspatrone was. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[To present the Verwoerdian philosophy as the only thing to have shaped South Africa’s developmental patterns can surely not be accurate. And this is precisely why, hon De Beer, we must take into consideration the effect that colonialism and apartheid had on South Africa’s developmental patterns. We therefore cannot focus only on the effect of apartheid, but we should also look at the effect of imperialism before it on South Africa’s developmental patterns.]
The next issue is one that the ANC continually wants to use and misuse. It is this misnomer of continually referring to Africans in particular and blacks in general. To continually refer to that is a very narrow and shallow argument and I think it is necessary that we move forward and away from it.
Daardie argument gaan ons nie vorentoe vat in terme van wat ons wil bereik nie. Ten opsigte daarvan, en van die hele kwessie van taal en Afrikaans, is dit nodig om te erken dat daar ’n tyd was toe die Afrikaners in hierdie land opgestaan en gesê het, “Engels, Engels, alles Engels.” (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[That argument will not take us forward in terms of what we wish to achieve. In this regard, and that of the whole question of language and Afrikaans, it is necessary to acknowledge that there was a time when the Afrikaners in this land stood up and said, “English, English, everything English.”]
And it has very little to do with Africans or blacks, in particular, but much more to do with the collective responsibility we, as South Africans, have towards the future of this country.
The third matter regarding which I have a serious issue with the hon Tau and his colleagues is that they speak like Tarzan but walk like Jane. [Laughter.] They were the ones who until 1999 motivated that labour brokerage in South Africa was the worst evil in the current circumstances. And then, in 1999, when they had to implement the legislation, they did a U-turn.
So, for a senior member like the hon Tau – a senior communist, I must say – to come here today and talk about labour brokerage and his own party, who reneged on the mandate that was apparently given to him, can certainly not be true, and further link it to the youth. That cannot be right, Chairperson.
The last issue that I want to take up is that of window-dressing by this ANC government. To purport to speak to the FF Plus and address the issues in terms of a national identity and so on certainly cannot be right.
Die VF Plus is ’n absolute klein minderheid wat, met respek, ’n beperkte politieke invloed in Suid-Afrika het. [Tussenwerpsels.] En om dit voor te hou, agb lid ... [Tussenwerpsels.] [The FF Plus is an absolute minority which, with respect, has limited political influence in South Africa. [Interjections.] And to hold this up, hon member ... [Interjections.]]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Order!
Mr K A SINCLAIR: And I must say sometimes I think the hon member Maine wants to be a mini-me Malema. [Laughter.] To come and use that and say that is the solution to our challenges in terms of nation-building cannot be true.
So, agb Voorsitter, wat is die oplossing, as u my sal toelaat? [So, hon Chairperson, what is the solution, if you will allow me?]
We must acknowledge that we live in a globalised world. We must focus on education. We must focus on the widespread unemployment. But, above all, the youth must provide us with quality leadership, not the leaders of the youth league of this country. That is not leadership. [Interjections.] Yes.
So, in terms of that, I want to conclude by saying we must take collective responsibility for our future. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr J J GUNDA: Hon Deputy Chair, hon Chief Whip, hon members ...
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Wait, wait, wait, Gunda. Order, please! Let us respect the person who is debating. Continue.
Mr J J GUNDA: Thank you for your protection, hon Deputy Chair. Hon Deputy Chair, hon members of this House, all protocol observed. This debate is indeed really, really important for the youth of today, and I want us to be honest. John C Maxwell said that whenever you are a leader and someone criticises you and you just shout that person down, you are actually stupid. John C Maxwell also went on to say that in order for a human being to reach his or her goal, he or she needs to be a disciplined human being.
I would like to say to the youth today in this debate that it is a shame that so many of them are still unemployed. It is heart-breaking to see that some of them cannot get bursaries. It is heart-breaking to see that 70% of the youth are unemployed. It is heart-breaking. And, and we must be honest: yes, the government is trying its utmost, but the government is not doing enough. Regarding the Umsobomvu Youth Fund and the National Youth Agency, the government must bring the culprits to book. What are they doing? Millions of rands are given to certain individuals while the really poor people are suffering. We cannot allow this kind of thing to go on. It is impossible.
Die jeug van 1976 het met hul lewens betaal vir hierdie vryheid, en die jeug van vandag het nie vryheid nie. Ons is nie ekonomies vry nie. Ons is polities vry, maar ons jeug het nie ekonomiese mag nie. Om van hierdie jeug leiers te maak, moet jy hulle begin verantwoordelik maak. En om hulle verantwoordelik te maak, moet jy vir hulle ekonomiese vryheid gee. Ek dink aan ’n kind en ek sien hoe ons kinders ... (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[The youth of 1976 paid with their lives for this freedom, and the youth of today do not have freedom. We are not free economically. We are free politically, but our youth have no economic power. To turn the youth into leaders one has to start by making them responsible. And to make them responsible means giving them economic freedom. I think of a child and I see how our children ...]
Members of Parliament would agree. When your children go to bed, they don’t worry because they know there is food on the table. What about the children who go to bed and there is no food, and they get up the next morning knowing there isn’t even porridge for them to eat? [Interjections.] And that is why I am saying to you, Maine, do not ask me what I am doing. Stop wasting the millions and do the right thing, Maine. Hon Maine, do the right thing.
I would like to say this: Until we come to the point where we acknowledge that the youth are valuable ... Young people have value. Young people just need to be directed. Young people just need to be helped and to be educated - given a decent, quality education; not just certain individuals, but everyone in South Africa belongs to South Africa. The Freedom Charter says that all who live in South Africa shall share in this country. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr S A DUMA (KwaZulu-Natal): Hon Chair, I think I should first mention that we must dwell very much on the principles of profit and advantage when we deal with the issue of this forefront concept of youth today versus the issue of justice, balance and the reciprocity process.
I completely agreed with hon Chairperson R J Tau when he specifically articulated the issue of labour brokers. You currently understand that they constitute not even a significant minority, but they take all the profit margins. That is why he is expressing that perspective. [Applause.]
You must also take into cognisance the fact that we are dealing with the alarmist populists of this world who are going to say a lot of things. The reality and the crux of the matter is that a lot has been done and achieved as well.
Oliver Tambo, the former president of the ANC, once said that a country that does not take care of its youth is a dead nation. We are still considering those words. Because of the Freedom Charter’s concept that the “people shall govern”, we are here today, charting the way forward and addressing the imbalances of the past. [Applause.]
The former president of the ANC, president Luthuli, once said: “What would I do if I were prime minister?” He noted a lot of concepts and issues. One of those was the hot debate of the nationalisation of mines, the post offices, the banks, land. Hence, the debate today is critical. It is also relevant for us to check that the youth are at the forefront. How do we ensure that they participate in the mainstream economy of this country? We must ensure that the environment is conducive to this. Our government should also intervene with a holistic and inclusive approach. Those issues should be taken into cognisance.
The hon Tau articulated very clearly the issue of free education. It should be tangible. We should come up with the proper strategy going forward. Government has already embarked on that strategy. We should also come up with a proper timeframe and concept.
We must mention that one of our current barriers in society, when we check the epoch, is whose voices are being heard in the South African media. That is another challenge, as the youth will still understand it as being so eurocentric that it ends up polarising issues and shifting our focus. That is why you find that a lot of people are highlighting the wrong concepts. I’m still going to speak about that.
Let me mention specifically that the DA tends to polarise every debate, as if they come with a holistic and useful approach. Look at what happened in the Western Cape. Selective amnesia syndrome is embedded in their systems. They don’t come up with concrete things that can address South Africans. In fact, I’m told that they don’t even wear proper Bafana Bafana jerseys. They just procure theirs as if they were a federal country. We must address those issues as well. [Interjections.]
It is true, hon Chairperson, that Solomon Mahlangu said, “My blood will nourish the tree that will bear the fruits of freedom.” Economic freedom in our lifetime should be visible. We must mention that all those things should be taken into cognisance.
Maybe today is the day on which we should make such a necessary assessment: Who are we as South Africans; as the youth of South Africa? Where do we come from? Where are we, and where are we likely to go in terms of the social pattern? Those concepts are the issues that should also be addressed.
Currently, if you talk about the problematic areas that should be addressed in South Africa, they must be named. The five priorities that our government is trying to address ...
Mr A WATSON: Are you the Chair? If you are not, then you should look forward. I am addressing the Chair. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Can I now talk to you, hon Watson?
Mr A WATSON: He interjected me.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Watson, can I then address you?
Mr A WATSON: Chairperson, may I rise on a point of order?
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Fine, what is the point of order?
Mr A WATSON: Madam Chair, the member is misleading this House by accusing the Western Cape of making their own Bafana Bafana T-shirts that are not true Bafana Bafana shirts. But if that were true, then everybody in Parliament is also not wearing Bafana Bafana shirts because they all have Parliament’s emblem on them. So, he must withdraw that. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Watson, do me a favour: Could you put that in black and white, because we might be given an answer as soon as it is possible to get one? Could you do that for me? Thank you. Continue, hon member.
Mr S A DUMA (KwaZulu-Natal): Hon Chairperson, we will not be scared of the debate. The issue of the ubuntu spirit, when one is coming to a conclusion, should be taken into cognisance as well. If we are saying that our youth should be at the forefront, let us ensure that in almost every component, such as employment, they are the ones taking decisions. This is because they form the majority, in any case, in South Africa.
If you are talking about the challenges that are facing youth in terms of education, they should be the designers. If you are talking about the issue of the economy, they should indeed be at the forefront, even coming up with the proper methodological aspects that are going to address the issues of South African society.
I must also mention in conclusion that a national democratic state and a national democratic society is our ideal vision that will ensure that we harness a proper society in South Africa. I agree that there are a lot of things that are slowly going to be addressed. Thank you so much. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Order! I now call the hon Mncube.
Mr D V BLOEM: Madam Chair ...
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Bloem?
Mr D V BLOEM: Before the hon member speaks, I just want to get clarity on the ruling that you have just given to Mr Watson, because he rose on a point of order to say that the member was misleading the House. Now you are saying that Mr Watson must write a letter; put it in black and white. That was a point of order, and you must only make a ruling on what Mr Watson said. That is why I am rising in this regard.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Bloem, I have spoken to the hon Watson. I said what I did because we are running short of time, and I am going to talk to him after this. It is not for you to intervene. Thank you. Thank you, Mr Bloem. Do me a favour: could you sit down for now, because I have spoken to Mr Watson and I will deal with that issue.
Mr D V BLOEM: No. Madam Chair, I rise on another point of order. I think I am very entitled to speak in this House. I am very entitled to do so. An amount of 1,3 million people voted for us and I am entitled to speak. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela:) Hon Bloem, with due respect, I am not undermining you. This is a democratic country, but could you still, at the same time, listen to what other people are saying? Listen with understanding. Thank you. Continue, hon member.
Ms B V MNCUBE: Hon Chairperson, I am privileged to take part in this important debate, which commemorates 34 years since the 1976 Soweto uprisings. The debate today is made even more useful because it recognises the role that young people are accorded in our society. It pays homage to the sterling heroism, the sacrifices and selflessness of the youth of South Africa who made it possible for all of us to live in a strong and vibrant democracy.
Hon Sinclair, you may be in Cope, but your mind is still locked in the previous party, the National Party, and its principles and its policies. We may forgive you because Cope has no policies. We saw what happened last week at your policy conference. [Interjections.]
Mr K A SINCLAIR: Chair, on a point of order: Is it proper for the hon member to lie to the House?
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): To?
Mr K A SINCLAIR: ... to mislead the House, hon Chairperson.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): It is not.
Mr K A SINCLIAR: Oh, it is not, because the hon member is misleading the House by saying that Cope doesn’t have policies. Firstly, we had an election manifesto, and a very comprehensive set of policy documents was accepted. [Interjections.] I will give her a copy, which is much better than the policies of the ANC. Thank you. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Okay, my ruling is that this is not correct, and it ends there. Continue, Mncube.
Ms B V MNCUBE: It is hypocrisy from the DA, hon Harris, to pretend to have the interests of the majority of unemployed youth, being Africans in particular, at heart on the issue of the youth wage subsidy. This is a narrow interest of a white capitalist supremacy, aimed at further exploiting the poorest of the poor. The wage subsidy getting to the labour brokers, which the hard ...
Mr T D HARRIS: Chair ...
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Sorry, hon Harris, I was still busy.
Mr T D HARRIS: On a point of order, Chair, the hon member is implying - and misleading the House - I suspect, that the Finance Minister, on the policy of youth wage subsidy, is, I believe, narrow and a white supremacist. Either she believes that or she is misleading the House. Could you give a ruling on whether she is misleading the House?
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Harris, my understanding is that that is a response to the debate. Thank you. Continue, Mncube.
Ms B V MNCUBE: This is a narrow interest of the white capitalist bosses aimed at further exploiting the poorest of the poor. The wage subsidy that is being argued here will go to the labour brokers, whose existence they are defending wholeheartedly as they are pushing for its implementation now. [Interjections.] You are pushing it now. So don’t be the mouthpiece of the working class and the poor.
Hon Inkosi and hon Gunda, the National Youth Development Agency is a multiparty agency at the highest decision-making level. All the parties are represented in the agency. Therefore, we should work together and champion the interests of the youth of South Africa and stop blaming the alliance.
Allow me, hon Chairperson, to pay homage to a fighter, a relentless organiser and an inspiring leader of the youth of our country: Comrade Peter Mokaba, who passed away on 9 June 2002. In five days’ time the youth of our movement will commemorate eight years since the great leader of our national democratic revolution joined fearless ANC cadres such as Walter Sisulu, John Langalibalele Dube, Chief Albert Luthuli, Oliver Reginald Tambo, Moses Mabhida, Solomon Kalushi Mahlangu and many more.
I also pay homage to all the compatriots that supported our nation’s fight against apartheid throughout the African continent and the world. All of them, through their determined struggles and efforts, ensured that South Africans today are able to say, with conviction, “We are free. We are free indeed.”
As we celebrate this Youth Day, we continue to repeat the message that the nation expects the youth of today to follow in the footsteps of the 1976 youth and become agents of change, this time in the continuing struggle to achieve the goal of a better life for all our people. Indeed, all of us have the common responsibility to always recall the events of 1976, so that the bravery and sacrifices of that generation of young people continue to serve as an inspiration to work harder in our efforts and deeds towards a united, democratic, nonracial and nonsexist South Africa.
Whereas the youth of 1976 used their energies to mobilise and campaign against apartheid, the youth of today should use their talents to mobilise and campaign against crime and drugs. The young people of today, the young lions, must be at the forefront of the struggle to defeat violence against and the rape of women and children. The good role models amongst them, the best young lions, are those who get good results at all our educational institutions. The good role models amongst them must be those who work with the community to help the poor, who volunteer to help their neighbours, who give due respect to other members of the community, including the elderly and people with disabilities, and those who respect the values of ubuntu and good moral conduct.
Today, we are free because in the past young people made great sacrifices. This freedom has, in turn, brought about many opportunities. Accordingly, the youth should bear no excuses in their individual and collective efforts to put to good use all the many and varied opportunities brought by democracy.
Young people must do everything possible to ensure that they access the education and training opportunities that the youth of 1976 fought for with their lives. The youth today defends our nationhood and instils pride and patriotism among all young people for being South African and Africans. They must rise up to protect their communities, which are being ravaged by cowardly attacks on them by criminals and by disease.
We would like to use this opportunity to appeal to all youth formations and all our social partners, namely labour, business and civil society, to join hands and act together, addressing the critically important matter of youth development and the empowerment of youth from economically disadvantaged communities.
In closing, in seven days’ time our nation will host the 2010 Fifa World Cup. We want to say to all the youth of South Africa: Be defenders of our national symbols. Let us take this opportunity to ensure that our nation triumphs in its effort to implant hope and common identity in the hearts and minds of all its people, regardless of gender, sex, creed, colour and social status. I thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon members, before I call the last speaker, I would like to clear the air. Let me remind you that a response to a debate cannot be said to be a point of order. Furthermore, any member who rises to respond to a debate under the pretext of a point of order will be ruled out of order. And before we close, after the last speaker I would like to comment on something very disturbing, that is happening in this House. Hon Tau, over to you. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): Chairperson, let me take this opportunity to thank all members who participated in the debate. It was quite a youthful, honest and frank debate. They raised the challenges that young people are faced with in our country. I did not hear anybody say that it was not true that young people were the majority of the unemployed and the disadvantaged in South Africa. Young people are the majority of those who are faced with all the inequalities and illnesses that exist within society.
Whether we are political parties or we posture as them, we all agree that there is a sense of urgency to deal with problems that young people are facing. I may not necessarily respond to all the issues raised by each member, but it is important that we should not mislead ourselves when dealing with some of the challenges young people are facing.
I would like to thank the hon Mncube for raising the issue of the need for the establishment of the Youth Development Agency. All political parties and their youth structures converged and agreed that the two institutions, the Umsobomvu Youth Fund and the National Youth Commission, were not responding adequately to the challenges of young people. They are housed separately. Therefore, there is no relationship between those two particular institutions.
South African young people, including all political formations, agreed that they should merge the two institutions. This is so that when a young person goes to the NYDA, the NYDA should not say, “No, we are dealing with policy. You must go to the Umsobomvu Youth Fund.” Then, when he or she goes to the Umsobomvu Youth Fund, they say, “No. We don’t have the resources. We don’t assist with this matter. You must go back to the previous institution.” Let us bring all those institutions under one roof, as an elephant that can drive youth development in this country, slowly but decisively – like an elephant. And all political parties agreed to that.
I find it quite strange that the very same political parties are now critical of this elephant. They are highly critical of this particular elephant, which is hypocritical. At least if they were saying, “These are the challenges that the NYDA is faced with; and these are the things that we need to do to improve the functionality of the NYDA,” I would have said, “Yes, that is probably an issue,” but you cannot come here and be hypocritical and just shout down the NYDA.
Second to that, I found it quite strange because the DA youth formation was the first one to praise the formation of the National Youth Development Agency. Fortunately, I served in that ad hoc committee. When we interviewed for appointment to the board of the National Youth Development Agency, I was quite central to that. The DA youth was the first to hail the appointment of the National Youth Development Agency. Now today I am surprised that the Western Cape has its own youth development programmes - a country within a country.
There are programmes that are geared towards addressing the challenges facing young people. But now the attitude that is being presented here is: We understand what you are doing in South Africa, but this is what we are doing in the Western Cape to advance youth development. Why aren’t those programmes part of the National Youth Development Agency’s programmes? Why didn’t the Western Cape move faster in establishing offices of the National Youth Development Agency and therefore support those offices to advance the programmes of youth development in the country?
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Sorry, hon Tau. Just a minute. Hon Harris?
Mr T D HARRIS: Thanks, Deputy Chair. I am wondering if the hon Tau will take a question.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): Yes.
Mr T D HARRIS: When did any DA speaker today mention any youth development agency?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): You see, he’s not listening, because what I said was that instead of their saying, “This is what we are doing to advance the programmes of the National Youth Development Agency”, they had instead their own separate programmes, which seek to negate or compete with what the country wants to do. That is also quite hypocritical. I think we need to speak against that as the ANC or as this particular House.
Hon Sinclair, I think you are also being disingenuous. When we deal with the philosophy of Verwoerd, of course I would agree with you that we cannot unlink the philosophy of Verwoerd from colonialism, but you must understand what I was trying to say earlier. I was characterising South Africa as conceptualised by Verwoerd in developing this kind of a state.
Not only was it about not teaching young people maths and science but it was about segregation and the establishment of Bantustans. I did not want to go there. [Applause.] It was also about putting the Africans in particular – I’ll repeat it: it was about putting the Africans in particular – and blacks in general, who comprised Indians and coloureds, on the periphery of the economy through the homelands system. [Applause.] That was Verwoerd.
The theme itself refers to dismantling apartheid social relations. They are not even considering the theme in the debate today, because they don’t know what it is that we are trying to deal with. We are trying to undo what the ANC in 1969 characterised as “colonialism of a special time”. Through that we said: Yes, of course, the coloniser is not directly involved. The coloniser has left the territory. But within that boundary there is a minority that sees itself as superior to the majority and therefore disenfranchises them, oppresses them, unlinks them from the mainstream of the economy and so forth. Their lot was to be the suppliers of labour to the benefit of key industries, particularly the mines. [Interjections.]
That is exactly what we have been saying here. We need to understand the debate within that context, because, “through the colonialism of a special time”, the social relations in South Africa were constructed. The debate was seeking to respond to how we undo that and move forward as a country. How do we undo that and move forward as a country - I didn’t hear what you were saying about this as an hon member.
Of course, I am not surprised that the hon member decided to be so disingenuous without going into much history. Even his own professor – you would know him very well - Prof Andre Duvenhage, from the University of the North West, agreed with what the hon Mncube was saying in terms of the issue of Cope’s policies – that there are no policies. His own professor! So I wonder if you are going to pass the thesis or the mini thesis if you submit it and speak like that. I see you failing.
Briefly, I think what we are trying to do here or what we are trying to address here as the NCOP is: How do we deal with this intergenerational, abject poverty that the young people of South Africa attract? How do we dislodge this intergenerational, abject poverty? It is a chain, and we need to find a way to break this particular chain.
In my presentation I avoided being ideological, although the DA tried to push a particular ideological economic front as a way of solving the problems of the young people of South Africa. This is because we are sitting with the problem of liberalism today. The problems that we are having today are the other problems of liberalism.
It is in that context that the President said: Yes, we have pronounced on this particular issue, but there are other views that are being projected out there, such as the issue of the two-tier labour system – whether labour brokerage won’t create a two-tier labour system and all sorts of things. There is a sense of discomfort, and the President said that it was our responsibility, as the leadership, that if a section of the population was not happy about any pronouncement, we needed to listen and engage with that particular section. And that is exactly what the President said. He’s saying, let’s listen to ...
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon member, conclude.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): In conclusion, may I therefore say that yes, the responsibility of the transformation of this country is squarely in the hands of the young people. And it is for us as Members of Parliament, as public representatives, as political parties to assist these young people and not to play political games when it comes to the issues of young people. This is because, if we do that, we are in fact creating a time bomb and by the time it explodes, it will explode right in our faces as Members of Parliament or public representatives. Thank you very much, Chairperson. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon members, may I bring a point to your attention? We have staff members who can take messages from point A to point B. But what I have noticed happening today is people just crossing the line from one point to the other. That is not supposed to happen. Please, let us be exemplary. The NCOP is made up of very respectable and intelligent people. That concludes the debate.
Debate concluded.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): Hon Sinclair? Hon Sinclair, there is no point of order that I am going to accept now. I have closed the debate, and the next session has to start.
Mr K A SINCLAIR: Chairperson, you have raised a very serious issue. I just want to make an enquiry. You referred to members walking around. Are you indicating that there is floor-crossing happening? [Laughter.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms T C Memela): This is not the time for jokes. We are busy working. Thank you, hon Sinclair. This means that you don’t even know that floor-crossing stopped long ago. Maybe you were out of the country.
APPROPRIATION BILL
(Consideration of Votes and Schedule)
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Hon members, we now come to the Consideration of Votes and Schedule of the Appropriation Bill. Could I propose that in order for us to move a little bit faster, we don’t use the electronic voting system and follow the normal procedure? When we start, I will announce how we are going to sit so that we expedite the process. Does the House agree with that? Okay, that’s fine.
As there is no speakers’ list, I shall now put the Votes in the order in which they appear on the schedule to the Bill. Before I do so, I would like to remind members that during voting the doors will be closed. I hope you have checked that everybody is inside, because we don’t want to lock people out. Are all members from all sides inside the House?
Vote No 1 – The Presidency – put.
Division demanded.
The Council divided:
AYES - 35: Adams, F; Boroto, M G; Bloem, D V; Chaane, T E; De Beer, C J; Dikgale, M C; Duma, S; Feldman, D B; Gamede, D D; Gunda, J J; Jacobs, M P; Magadla, N W; Maine, M C; Makgate, M W; Mashamaite, T A; Mashile, B L; Matila, A G; Makhubela, M W; Memela, T C; Mlenzana, Z; Mncube, B V; Mnguni, B A; Mofokeng, T M H; Montsitsi, S D; Moshodi, M L; Nesi, B; Ntwanambi, N D; Nzimande, L P M; Qikani, A N D; Rantho, D Z; Rasmeni, R N; Sibande, M P; Sinclair, K A; Shabalala, N B; Themba, M P.
NOES – 10: Bekker, J M G; Chen, S S; De Villiers, M J R; Faber, W F; Groenewald, H B; Harris, T D; Lees, R A; Van Lingen, E C; Watson, A; Worth, D A.
Vote accordingly agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 2 – Parliament - put and agreed to.
Vote No 3 - Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs – put.
Division demanded.
The Council divided:
AYES - 38: Adams, F; Boroto, M G; Bloem, D V; Chaane, T E; De Beer, C J; de Beer, O; Dikgale, M C; Duma, S; Feldman, D B; Gamede, D D; Gunda, J J; Jacobs, M P; Magadla, N W; Maine, M C; Makgate, M W; Makhubela, M W; Mashamaite, T A; Mashile, B L; Matila, A G; Memela, T C; Mlenzana, Z; Mncube, B V; Mnguni, B A; Mofokeng, T M H; Montsitsi, S D; Moshodi, M L; Nesi, B; Ntwanambi, N D; Nzimande, L P M; Plaatjie, S H; Qikani, A N D; Rantho, D Z; Rasmeni, R N; Sibande, M P; Sinclair, K A; Shabalala, N B; Tau, R J; Themba, M P.
NOES – 10: Bekker, J M G; Chen, S S; De Villiers, M J R; Faber, W F; Groenewald, H B; Harris, T D; Lees, R A; Van Lingen, E C; Watson, A; Worth, D A.
Vote accordingly agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 4 - Home Affairs – put and agreed to.
Vote No 5 – International Relations and Co-operation – put and agreed to.
Vote No 6 – Public Works – put and agreed to.
Vote No 7 – Women, Children and People with Disabilities – put.
Division demanded.
The Council divided:
AYES - 38: Adams, F; Boroto, M G; Bloem, D V; Chaane, T E; De Beer, C J; de Beer, O; Dikgale, M C; Duma, S; Feldman, D B; Gamede, D D; Gunda, J J; Jacobs, M P; Magadla, N W; Maine, M C; Makgate, M W; Makhubela, M W; Mashamaite, T A; Mashile, B L; Matila, A G; Memela, T C; Mlenzana, Z; Mncube, B V; Mnguni, B A; Mofokeng, T M H; Montsitsi, S D; Moshodi, M L; Nesi, B; Ntwanambi, N D; Nzimande, L P M; Plaatjie, S H; Qikani, A N D; Rantho, D Z; Rasmeni, R N; Sibande, M P; Sinclair, K A; Shabalala, N B; Tau, R J; Themba, M P.
NOES – 10: Bekker, J M G; Chen, S S; De Villiers, M J R; Faber, W F; Groenewald, H B; Harris, T D; Lees, R A; Van Lingen, E C; Watson, A; Worth, D A.
Vote accordingly agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 8 – Government Communication and Information System – put and agreed to.
Vote No 9 – National Treasury – put and agreed to.
Vote No 10 - Public Enterprises - put.
Division demanded.
The Council divided:
AYES - 38: Adams, F; Boroto, M G; Bloem, D V; Chaane, T E; De Beer, C J; de Beer, O; Dikgale, M C; Duma, S; Feldman, D B; Gamede, D D; Gunda, J J; Jacobs, M P; Magadla, N W; Maine, M C; Makgate, M W; Makhubela, M W; Mashamaite, T A; Mashile, B L; Matila, A G; Memela, T C; Mlenzana, Z; Mncube, B V; Mnguni, B A; Mofokeng, T M H; Montsitsi, S D; Moshodi, M L; Nesi, B; Ntwanambi, N D; Nzimande, L P M; Plaatjie, S H; Qikani, A N D; Rantho, D Z; Rasmeni, R N; Sibande, M P; Sinclair, K A; Shabalala, N B; Tau, R J; Themba, M P.
NOES – 10: Bekker, J M G; Chen, S S; De Villiers, M J R; Faber, W F; Groenewald, H B; Harris, T D; Lees, R A; Van Lingen, E C; Watson, A; Worth, D A.
Vote accordingly agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Mr K A SINCLAIR: Chairperson, I just want to raise a procedural matter as a point of order once you finish with this specific Vote.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: What is your point?
Mr K A SINCLAIR: Chairperson, I want to raise a point of order on a procedural matter. The Rule is very specific that once the voting starts, members who are outside must stay outside. Unfortunately, the officials allowed three members to come in when the voting had already started. Since it is an important matter, I would like those particular members to be outside of the House, please.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: All right, we will check the Rules quickly. The Table staff has just advised me that if a member is outside while a particular Vote is being tabled in the House, he or she can’t vote on that Vote. But, if a member is in the House when a Vote is tabled, the member can vote. [Applause.]
Vote No 11 – Public Service and Administration – put.
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 12 – Statistics South Africa – put and agreed to.
Vote No 13 – Arts and Culture – put and agreed to.
Vote No 14 – Basic Education - put.
Division demanded.
The Council divided:
AYES - 38: Adams, F; Boroto, M G; Bloem, D V; Chaane, T E; De Beer, C J; de Beer, O; Dikgale, M C; Duma, S; Feldman, D B; Gamede, D D; Gunda, J J; Jacobs, M P; Magadla, N W; Maine, M C; Makgate, M W; Makhubela, M W; Mashamaite, T A; Mashile, B L; Matila, A G; Memela, T C; Mlenzana, Z; Mncube, B V; Mnguni, B A; Mofokeng, T M H; Montsitsi, S D; Moshodi, M L; Nesi, B; Ntwanambi, N D; Nzimande, L P M; Plaatjie, S H; Qikani, A N D; Rantho, D Z; Rasmeni, R N; Sibande, M P; Sinclair, K A; Shabalala, N B; Tau, R J; Themba, M P.
NOES – 10: Bekker, J M G; Chen, S S; De Villiers, M J R; Faber, W F; Groenewald, H B; Harris, T D; Lees, R A; Van Lingen, E C; Watson, A; Worth, D A.
Vote accordingly agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 15 – Health – put.
Division demanded.
The Council divided:
AYES - 38: Adams, F; Boroto, M G; Bloem, D V; Chaane, T E; De Beer, C J; de Beer, O; Dikgale, M C; Duma, S; Feldman, D B; Gamede, D D; Gunda, J J; Jacobs, M P; Magadla, N W; Maine, M C; Makgate, M W; Makhubela, M W; Mashamaite, T A; Mashile, B L; Matila, A G; Memela, T C; Mlenzana, Z; Mncube, B V; Mnguni, B A; Mofokeng, T M H; Montsitsi, S D; Moshodi, M L; Nesi, B; Ntwanambi, N D; Nzimande, L P M; Plaatjie, S H; Qikani, A N D; Rantho, D Z; Rasmeni, R N; Sibande, M P; Sinclair, K A; Shabalala, N B; Tau, R J; Themba, M P.
NOES – 10: Bekker, J M G; Chen, S S; De Villiers, M J R; Faber, W F; Groenewald, H B; Harris, T D; Lees, R A; Van Lingen, E C; Watson, A; Worth, D A.
Vote accordingly agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: What is the problem, hon Gunda? I said that there would be no debate once we started voting.
Mr J J GUNDA: Chair, I would just like to make a statement.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, you are not going to make any statement. That’s exactly what I meant: Once we start voting, no statements will be made. Do you want to make a statement, or what?
Mr J J GUNDA: Chair, I find it very strange that the very same people who are crying for service delivery object to the Votes. If there is a problem ...
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Gunda, it is all right. You may sit down. [Laughter.]
Vote No 16 – Higher Education and Training - put.
Division demanded.
The Council divided:
AYES - 38: Adams, F; Boroto, M G; Bloem, D V; Chaane, T E; De Beer, C J; de Beer, O; Dikgale, M C; Duma, S; Feldman, D B; Gamede, D D; Gunda, J J; Jacobs, M P; Magadla, N W; Maine, M C; Makgate, M W; Makhubela, M W; Mashamaite, T A; Mashile, B L; Matila, A G; Memela, T C; Mlenzana, Z; Mncube, B V; Mnguni, B A; Mofokeng, T M H; Montsitsi, S D; Moshodi, M L; Nesi, B; Ntwanambi, N D; Nzimande, L P M; Plaatjie, S H; Qikani, A N D; Rantho, D Z; Rasmeni, R N; Sibande, M P; Sinclair, K A; Shabalala, N B; Tau, R J; Themba, M P.
NOES – 10: Bekker, J M G; Chen, S S; De Villiers, M J R; Faber, W F; Groenewald, H B; Harris, T D; Lees, R A; Van Lingen, E C; Watson, A; Worth, D A.
Vote accordingly agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 17 – Labour - put.
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 18 – Social Development – put and agreed to.
Vote No 19 – Sport and Recreation South Africa – put.
Division demanded.
The Council divided:
AYES - 38: Adams, F; Boroto, M G; Bloem, D V; Chaane, T E; De Beer, C J; de Beer, O; Dikgale, M C; Duma, S; Feldman, D B; Gamede, D D; Gunda, J J; Jacobs, M P; Magadla, N W; Maine, M C; Makgate, M W; Makhubela, M W; Mashamaite, T A; Mashile, B L; Matila, A G; Memela, T C; Mlenzana, Z; Mncube, B V; Mnguni, B A; Mofokeng, T M H; Montsitsi, S D; Moshodi, M L; Nesi, B; Ntwanambi, N D; Nzimande, L P M; Plaatjie, S H; Qikani, A N D; Rantho, D Z; Rasmeni, R N; Sibande, M P; Sinclair, K A; Shabalala, N B; Tau, R J; Themba, M P.
NOES – 10: Bekker, J M G; Chen, S S; De Villiers, M J R; Faber, W F; Groenewald, H B; Harris, T D; Lees, R A; Van Lingen, E C; Watson, A; Worth, D A.
Vote accordingly agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 20 – Correctional Services - put.
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 21 – Defence and Military Veterans – put.
Division demanded.
The Council divided:
AYES - 38: Adams, F; Boroto, M G; Bloem, D V; Chaane, T E; De Beer, C J; de Beer, O; Dikgale, M C; Duma, S; Feldman, D B; Gamede, D D; Gunda, J J; Jacobs, M P; Magadla, N W; Maine, M C; Makgate, M W; Makhubela, M W; Mashamaite, T A; Mashile, B L; Matila, A G; Memela, T C; Mlenzana, Z; Mncube, B V; Mnguni, B A; Mofokeng, T M H; Montsitsi, S D; Moshodi, M L; Nesi, B; Ntwanambi, N D; Nzimande, L P M; Plaatjie, S H; Qikani, A N D; Rantho, D Z; Rasmeni, R N; Sibande, M P; Sinclair, K A; Shabalala, N B; Tau, R J; Themba, M P.
NOES – 10: Bekker, J M G; Chen, S S; De Villiers, M J R; Faber, W F; Groenewald, H B; Harris, T D; Lees, R A; Van Lingen, E C; Watson, A; Worth, D A.
Vote accordingly agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 22 – Independent Complaints Directorate - put.
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 23 – Justice and Constitutional Development - put.
Division demanded.
The Council divided:
AYES - 38: Adams, F; Boroto, M G; Bloem, D V; Chaane, T E; De Beer, C J; de Beer, O; Dikgale, M C; Duma, S; Feldman, D B; Gamede, D D; Gunda, J J; Jacobs, M P; Magadla, N W; Maine, M C; Makgate, M W; Makhubela, M W; Mashamaite, T A; Mashile, B L; Matila, A G; Memela, T C; Mlenzana, Z; Mncube, B V; Mnguni, B A; Mofokeng, T M H; Montsitsi, S D; Moshodi, M L; Nesi, B; Ntwanambi, N D; Nzimande, L P M; Plaatjie, S H; Qikani, A N D; Rantho, D Z; Rasmeni, R N; Sibande, M P; Sinclair, K A; Shabalala, N B; Tau, R J; Themba, M P.
NOES – 10: Bekker, J M G; Chen, S S; De Villiers, M J R; Faber, W F; Groenewald, H B; Harris, T D; Lees, R A; Van Lingen, E C; Watson, A; Worth, D A.
Vote accordingly agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 24 – Police – put.
Division demanded.
The Council divided:
AYES - 38: Adams, F; Boroto, M G; Bloem, D V; Chaane, T E; De Beer, C J; de Beer, O; Dikgale, M C; Duma, S; Feldman, D B; Gamede, D D; Gunda, J J; Jacobs, M P; Magadla, N W; Maine, M C; Makgate, M W; Makhubela, M W; Mashamaite, T A; Mashile, B L; Matila, A G; Memela, T C; Mlenzana, Z; Mncube, B V; Mnguni, B A; Mofokeng, T M H; Montsitsi, S D; Moshodi, M L; Nesi, B; Ntwanambi, N D; Nzimande, L P M; Plaatjie, S H; Qikani, A N D; Rantho, D Z; Rasmeni, R N; Sibande, M P; Sinclair, K A; Shabalala, N B; Tau, R J; Themba, M P.
NOES – 10: Bekker, J M G; Chen, S S; De Villiers, M J R; Faber, W F; Groenewald, H B; Harris, T D; Lees, R A; Van Lingen, E C; Watson, A; Worth, D A.
Vote accordingly agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 25 – Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries – put.
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 26 – Communications – put and agreed to.
Vote No 27 – Economic Development – put.
Division demanded.
The Council divided:
AYES - 38: Adams, F; Boroto, M G; Bloem, D V; Chaane, T E; De Beer, C J; de Beer, O; Dikgale, M C; Duma, S; Feldman, D B; Gamede, D D; Gunda, J J; Jacobs, M P; Magadla, N W; Maine, M C; Makgate, M W; Makhubela, M W; Mashamaite, T A; Mashile, B L; Matila, A G; Memela, T C; Mlenzana, Z; Mncube, B V; Mnguni, B A; Mofokeng, T M H; Montsitsi, S D; Moshodi, M L; Nesi, B; Ntwanambi, N D; Nzimande, L P M; Plaatjie, S H; Qikani, A N D; Rantho, D Z; Rasmeni, R N; Sibande, M P; Sinclair, K A; Shabalala, N B; Tau, R J; Themba, M P.
NOES – 10: Bekker, J M G; Chen, S S; De Villiers, M J R; Faber, W F; Groenewald, H B; Harris, T D; Lees, R A; Van Lingen, E C; Watson, A; Worth, D A.
Vote accordingly agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 28 – Energy – put and agreed to.
Vote No 29 – Environmental Affairs – put and agreed to.
Vote No 30 – Human Settlements – put and agreed to.
Vote No 31 – Mineral Resources – put.
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 32 – Rural Development and Land Reform – put.
Division demanded.
The Council divided:
AYES - 38: Adams, F; Boroto, M G; Bloem, D V; Chaane, T E; De Beer, C J; de Beer, O; Dikgale, M C; Duma, S; Feldman, D B; Gamede, D D; Gunda, J J; Jacobs, M P; Magadla, N W; Maine, M C; Makgate, M W; Makhubela, M W; Mashamaite, T A; Mashile, B L; Matila, A G; Memela, T C; Mlenzana, Z; Mncube, B V; Mnguni, B A; Mofokeng, T M H; Montsitsi, S D; Moshodi, M L; Nesi, B; Ntwanambi, N D; Nzimande, L P M; Plaatjie, S H; Qikani, A N D; Rantho, D Z; Rasmeni, R N; Sibande, M P; Sinclair, K A; Shabalala, N B; Tau, R J; Themba, M P.
NOES – 10: Bekker, J M G; Chen, S S; De Villiers, M J R; Faber, W F; Groenewald, H B; Harris, T D; Lees, R A; Van Lingen, E C; Watson, A; Worth, D A.
Vote accordingly agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 33 – Science and Technology – put and agreed to.
Vote No 34 – Tourism – put and agreed to.
Vote No 35 – Trade and Industry – put and agreed to.
Vote No 36 – Transport – put.
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Vote No 37 – Water Affairs – put.
Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I am sorry. There is a step that we have skipped. I just want to correct that.
Mr D V BLOEM: Chairperson, this is a point of order.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I am still dealing with the Schedule.
Mr D V BLOEM: With the Schedule, yes.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Can we come to the point of order later?
Mr D V BLOEM: On the Schedule, Chairperson ...
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, there is no point of order on the Schedule.
Mr D V BLOEM: Chairperson, could you please give me a second? I officially want to welcome the members of the ANC to Cope, because they are here. [Laughter.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon member, let’s conclude. Order! Order! Could you please pay attention. Some of us have other business after this. That concludes the Consideration of Votes. I shall now put the whole Schedule. Is there any objection to the Schedule being agreed to? No. Therefore, the Schedule is agreed to.
Schedule put and agreed to.
APPROPRIATION BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report of thereon)
Mr T E CHAANE: Chairperson and hon members, the Select Committee on Appropriations, after considering the Bill, states as follows: The Appropriation Bill provides for the appropriation of money from the National Revenue Fund in terms of section 213 of the Constitution and section 13 of the Public Finance Management Act. However, the spending of the money is subject to the Public Finance Management Act and provisions of the Appropriation Bill.
The Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Act stipulates, amongst other things, the legislative framework for amendments of the Appropriation Bill by the House, facilitated through the process of Parliament and its committee on appropriations.
Furthermore, Parliament is expected to amend or pass without amendments the Appropriation Bill as soon as it is feasible, so that the President can assent to it and the Act can be promulgated before the end of July each year.
The committee has considered the provisions of section 10 of the Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Act and further considered the presentation from various stakeholders during the public hearings, as provided for by section 10(8) of the Act, as well as listened to the debates on the different Budget Votes.
The committee is of the view that the appropriation for 2010-11, as detailed in the Bill, mainly supports and also addresses the following policy priorities of government: firstly, enhancing the quality of health; secondly, fighting crime and corruption; thirdly, creating jobs, investment infrastructure and protecting the environment; fourth, making improvements in education and skills development; and, fifth, developing rural areas.
The committee, however, wishes to caution against the following. The continued underspending by some departments does not only raise concerns over capacity to spend but also creates unnecessary delays in the rolling out of services to our people. There are also the continued negative audit reports that might have a negative impact on the value for money spent. Going forward, consideration should be given to adding the following priorities to the Budget: the Ministry of Women, Children and People with Disabilities, as well as allocations to the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform, since the committee is of the view that those departments have very broad mandates with limited funds.
The committee recommends the adoption of the 2010 Appropriation Bill without any amendments. I thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! That concludes the debate. I shall now put the question. The question is that the Bill be agreed to. In accordance with Rule 33, I shall first allow political parties to make a declaration of vote if they so wish. Is there any political party that wishes to do so? No. We shall now proceed to the voting on the question.
Before I call for the voting, please... You understand the system. Should I repeat the system? Press button one to confirm your presence. There should be lights flashing. Are your lights flashing? If not, a service officer will assist you. We will proceed with the voting. Those who are in favour must press button four. Those who are against must press button two, and those who abstain must press button three. The voting will now take place.
Have you all voted? Mrs Chen, have you voted? Are you still going to vote? Okay. Mr Watson?
Mr A WATSON: Chairperson, my voting machine is not working.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Let them give you a form, Mr Watson, to vote. Give one to Mr Lees also, as well as Ms Van Lingen. Those members whose machines are not working just raise your hands so that you can get a form for manual voting. Voting is now closed. Remember that when you vote, you have to put your card in. Have you forgotten that? [Interjections.] It is not working – oh, okay. We will revert to the manual voting system if it is not working. Have you all voted? On this side, we still have a shortage of members. I think we must begin to count now. It will be quicker. Do we have enough forms? We will use the hands. Has everybody voted? The staff will ... What is wrong, Mr de Villiers?
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: I am still waiting for a form.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Are you still waiting for a form? Just raise your hand. Are you voting aye or no?
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: Chairperson, I will tell you in just a moment.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, we want to count the results.
Mr M J R DE VILLIERS: All the people will see my voting. The other ones are using forms. I have a right to have a form.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Nobody will blame you for how you vote. We are wasting the trees of South Africa now. Has everybody voted now? The staff will then give me the results.
Forty-five members have voted in favour. I therefore declare the Bill agreed to in terms of section 75 of the Constitution. [Applause.]
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON SECURITY AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT - PROVISIONAL SUSPENSION FROM OFFICE OF MAGISTRATE MR D JACOBS, MAGISTRATE AT CLOCOLAN
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON SECURITY AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT - PROVISIONAL SUSPENSION FROM OFFICE OF MAGISTRATE L B MARUWA
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON SECURITY AND
CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT - PROVISIONAL SUSPENSION FROM OFFICE OF MAGISTRATE M K CHAUKE
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON SECURITY AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT - PROVISIONAL SUSPENSION FROM OFFICE OF MAGISTRATE M T MASINGA
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON SECURITY AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT - PROVISIONAL SUSPENSION FROM OFFICE OF MAGISTRATE W J M PRINSLOO
Monghadi T M H MOFOKENG: Modula Setulo, komiti e ile ya dula mme ya sekaseka ho fanyehwa mosebetsing ha bomakgiseterata ba bahlano. Mabitso a bona ke ana: Ntate Maruwa ya ofising ya Daveyton, ntate Chauke ya ofising ya Pretoria, ntate Masinga ya ofising ya Umlazi KwaZulu-Natal, ntate Prinsloo ya ofising ya Ermelo le ntate Jacobs. Kamora hoba komiti e sekaseke ka botlalo dinyewe tseo ka bonngwe ba tsona, komiti e ikgotsofaditse hore e dumellana le komishene hore ba fanyehwe mosebetsing. Ke a leboha.] (Translation of Sesotho paragraph follows.)
[Mr T M H MOFOKENG: Chairperson, the committee sat and deliberated on the suspension from duty of five magistrates. Their names are: Mr Maruwa from the Daveyton office, Mr Chauke from the Pretoria office, Mr Masinga from the Umlazi office, KwaZulu-Natal, Mr Prinsloo from the Ermelo office, as well as Mr Jacobs. After the committee deliberated on those cases individually, it was satisfied that it was in agreement with the commission that they should be suspended from duty. I thank you.]
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report on the Provisional Suspension from Office of Magistrate Mr D Jacobs, Magistrate at Clocolan, be adopted.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report on the Provisional Suspension from Office of Magistrate Mr D Jacobs, Magistrate at Clocolan, accordingly agreed to in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.
Question put: That the Report on the Provisional Suspension from Office of Magistrate L B Maruwa be adopted.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report on the Provisional Suspension from office of Magistrate L B Maruwa accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Question put: That the Report on the Provisional Suspension from Office of Magistrate M K Chauke be adopted.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report on the Provisional Suspension from Office of Magistrate M K Chauke accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Question put: That the Report on the Provisional Suspension from Office of Magistrate M T Masinga be adopted.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report on the Provisional Suspension from Office of Magistrate M T Masinga accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Question put: That the Report on the Provisional Suspension from Office of Magistrate W J M Prinsloo be adopted.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report on the Provisional Suspension from Office of Magistrate W J M Prinsloo accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON TRADE AND INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS - PREFERENTIAL TRADE AGREEMENT (PTA) BETWEEN THE SOUTHERN AFRICAN CUSTOMS UNION (SACU) AND THE COMMON MARKET OF THE SOUTH (MERCOSUR)
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON TRADE AND INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS - AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF ZIMBABWE FOR THE PROMOTION AND RECIPROCAL PROTECTION OF INVESTMENTS
Mr D D GAMEDE: Chairperson, the report on the preferential trade agreement between the Southern African Customs Union and the Common Market of the South, Mercosur, and the report on the agreement between the governments of the Republic of South Africa and of Zimbabwe are being considered today. These reports have been deliberated upon by the Select Committee on Trade and International Relations and have been approved by the committee.
In the interests of time, we will make available the statement to all the members, especially in terms of the issues in the agreement between the Republic of South Africa and the Republic of Zimbabwe.
I therefore urge this House to agree and adopt these agreements. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report on the Preferential Trade Agreement (PTA) between the Southern African Customs Union (SACU) and the Common Market of the South (Mercosur) be adopted.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report on the Preferential Trade Agreement (PTA) between the Southern African Customs Union (SACU) and the Common Market of the South (Mercosur) accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Question put: That the Report on the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Republic of Zimbabwe for the Promotion and Reciprocal Protection of Investments be adopted.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report on the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Republic of Zimbabwe for the Promotion and Reciprocal Protection of Investments accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT - MEMBERSHIP OF SOUTH AFRICA OF THE INTERNATIONAL RENEWABLE ENERGY AGENCY (Irena)
Mr F ADAMS: Hon Chairperson, hon members and colleagues, the Select Committee on Economic Development, having considered the report on the Membership of South Africa of the International Renewable Energy Agency, tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the International Renewable Energy Agency report. Therefore, I put this report to the House. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON SECURITY AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT - PROCLAMATIONS MADE IN TERMS OF SECTION 25 OF THE PROTECTION OF CONSTITUTIONAL DEMOCRACY AGAINST TERRORIST AND RELATED ACTIVITIES ACT, 2004
Order disposed of without debate.
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF JOINT AD HOC COMMITTEE ON SOUTH AFRICA’S READINESS FOR 2010 FIFA SOCCER WORLD CUP
Mr M P SIBANDE: Hon Chairperson, hon Deputy Chairperson and hon members, in 2006 the SA Football Association, supported by the South African government, won the bid to host the Fifa Soccer World Cup. The South African government made the commitment and guarantees to the people of South Africa and Fifa that it would make the prestigious soccer event a success.
In order to oversee the successful preparation of our country for the World Cup, Parliament established an ad hoc committee to monitor progress and the readiness of the host cities and the stadiums. The ad hoc committee comprised a joint effort of both the portfolio and select committees dealing with Energy, Tourism, Police, Transport, Public Enterprises, Health and Home Affairs.
The ad hoc committee, in terms of South Africa’s readiness to host the 2010 Fifa World Cup, was tasked with the following: to assess the readiness of various host cities for the 2010 Fifa World Cup and, consequently, enhance ticket sales both locally and internationally; to assess the weaknesses and challenges in the host cities’ base camps by encouraging short, medium and long-term intervention; and to encourage the co-ordination and management of the hosting of the 2010 Fifa World Cup around the various host cities and municipalities where base camps are located.
The delegation made the following findings regarding the readiness of the stadiums for the 2010 Africa Fifa World Cup. Most of the stadiums and the host cities that were visited by the ad hoc committee were ready and their pitches were in a spectacular state and met all of Fifa’s requirements. Although there were some concerns about the lights at some stadiums, these concerns have since been resolved in all the areas where they were raised. However, we were informed that the Disability Alliance would lodge a protest over the lack of adequate seats at Soccer City Stadium. The alliance held the view ...
Mr A WATSON: Could the member explain who the Disability Alliance is?
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Would you like to explain, Mr Sibande?
Mr M P SIBANDE: No.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Okay, continue.
Mr M P SIBANDE: The alliance held the view that there was bias on the part of the organisers, particularly the Local Organising Committee, resulting in limited access to the stadium for disabled people. The City of Johannesburg built about 50 seats inside the stadium to accommodate disabled people in accordance with Fifa requirements.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order, Mr Sibande. Mr Watson?
Mr A WATSON: Chair, I acknowledge that the speaker is not willing to say who the Disability Alliance is, but in view of what he said afterwards, it would seem that he was referring to the DA. And, I think, in terms of the decorum of this House, we owe it to a party to use their correct name. We would not distort the ANC’s name or any other name.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: You both come from Mpumalanga. Could the two of you please discuss that. I don’t know what he is referring to either. Continue, hon member.
Mr M P SIBANDE: I must also say that the Fifa LOC undertook to purchase extra seats to accommodate the access needs of disabled people.
In the Free State, the delegation expressed serious concern over the continued lack of co-operation between the host city and the Free State’s rugby leadership over their continued use of the stadium. The Free State Cheetahs were continually using the stadium as their home ground for their Vodacom Super 14 games. The continued use of the stadium by the Cheetahs posed a serious risk to the growth of the grass and could have led to the withdrawal of all World Cup matches scheduled to take place in the city of Mangaung. The committee delegation recommended that the Free State Cheetahs request permission in writing from the SA Rugby Union for their remaining matches to be rescheduled to other venues. The delegation resolved that no other matches, especially on 1 May and 8 May 2010, should be staged on the Vodacom Park pitch. The captain’s run would also be moved to other venues to avoid further damage to the pitch.
We also noted the lack of adequate support staff to assist with the proper management and cleaning of the facilities. I must also inform the House that we visited several base camps that were proposed for the 2010 Fifa World Cup. Although most of the base camps were of a high quality, the delegation expressed concern about the quality of the pitches at some of the base camps. We were also notified of several contractual disputes that were raised with respective parties and requested that they be addressed immediately.
The delegation visited several host cities to ascertain their readiness. We also visited the areas that were designated as fan parks and, in most instances, we were pleased with their state of readiness. We were also pleased about the availability of the tourism information kiosks. We believe that these facilities will assist and make it easier for our international guests to navigate themselves to the various games and fan parks. They will serve as crucial points for our guests to get more information about the areas they can visit in order to get a true experience and reflection of South African life.
I must also say that we also visited airports in the host cities. We were impressed with the world-class infrastructure, which will also benefit our people beyond the World Cup. We were impressed by the baggage management system at the airports, which would surely limit baggage theft and make it easier for those who misplace their baggage to track it down.
Finally, I must inform this House that the delegation had engagements with Eskom to ascertain their readiness to provide a reliable power supply and ensure that we did not experience any blackouts. I must say that we were pleased about ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): Is that a point of order? Hon Sibande, could you just hold on.
Mr S S MAZOSIWE: Chairperson, I just want to find out, with all sincerity, what has gotten into the hon Bloem. Is there something wrong with him today, because he is shouting at everybody?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): That is not a point of order. But let us recognise the energy that the hon Bloem has. [Interjections.] Thank you very much. Hon Bloem, you are out of order now. [Laughter.] You may proceed, hon member.
Mr M P SIBANDE: I must say that we were pleased about the state of readiness and with the assurance they gave us that no one would miss a game owing to blackouts. We can say without a shred of doubt, “Ke Nako ya Afrika”. Now is the time for Africa. “Sikhathi seNinginzimu Afrika.” Feel it; it is here. We are ready to welcome the world. I thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS - INTERVENTION IN SUNDAYS RIVER VALLEY LOCAL MUNICIPALITY, EASTERN CAPE
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS - INTERVENTION IN MOSES KOTANE LOCAL MUNICIPALITY, NORTH WEST
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS - INTERVENTION IN THEMBISILE HANI LOCAL MUNICIPALITY
Mr A G MATILA: Chair, the Select Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs met on 1 June to consider the three reports. It also endorsed the decision taken by the three provincial executives in placing these municipalities under section 3(1)(b).
Members will get this report and we ask this House to endorse the specific reports. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report on the Intervention in Sundays River Valley Local Municipality, Eastern Cape, be adopted.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report on the Intervention in Sundays River Valley Local Municipality, Eastern Cape, accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Question put: That the Report on the Intervention in Moses Kotane Local Municipality, North West, be adopted.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report on the Intervention in Moses Kotane Local Municipality, North West, accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Question put: That the Report on the Intervention in Thembisile Hani Local Municipality be adopted.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report on the Intervention in Thembisile Hani Local Municipality accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr R J Tau): Hon members, this is a reminder and, I think, this reminder is something we are told to remember when we go home and come back. Members are reminded that when the House adjourns they are expected to remain standing until the procession has left the Chamber. That concludes the business of the day. The House is adjourned. [Applause.]
The Council adjourned at 12:04.
__________
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
THURSDAY, 3 JUNE 2010
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
1. The Minister of Finance
(a) Register of shareholders of the South African Reserve Bank as at 31 March 2010, in terms of section 32 of the South African Reserve Bank Act, 1989 (Act No 90 of 1989).
COMMITTEE REPORTS
National Council of Provinces
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FRIDAY, 4 JUNE 2010
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
The Speaker and the Chairperson
1. Bills passed by Houses – to be submitted to President for assent
(1) Bill passed by National Council of Provinces on 4 June 2010:
(a) Appropriation Bill [B 3 – 2010] (National Assembly – sec 77).
National Council of Provinces
The Chairperson
1. Referral to Committees of papers tabled
(1) The following paper is referred to the Select Committee on Social Services for consideration:
(a) Draft Policy Framework for Accreditation of Diversion Services in South Africa under the Child Justice Act, 2008 (Act No 75 of 2008).
4 JUNE 2010 Page 1 of 110