Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 19 Nov 2019


No summary available.





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The House met at 14:00.



The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation






The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Mahambehlala, that is not where you sit, you sit next in front of the - next to the place here.



Mr V ZUNGULA: Deputy Speaker!








Mnu V ZUNGULA: Jonga ngapha Sekela Somlomo. Kule veki iphelileyo kuye kwakhothama iNkosi yeSizwe samaXhosa. Bendinethemba lokuba phambi kokuba kuqalwe namhlanje apha, sizakunika imbeko kwisizwe samaXhosa, kuba xa ikumkani yesizwe esikhoyo apha kwilizwe lethu ithe yakhothama kulindeleke ukuba le Ndlu inike imbeko.

Ndiyathemba ukuba naye urhulumente uzakukwazi ukunikezela ngomngcwabo okhethekileyo wekumkani.



USEKELA SOMLOMO: Ndizakucela ukuba usilinde tata, iNdlu iqwalasela izinto ezinjalo, ungangxami, njengoko kusitshiwo.



Ms T MAHAMBEHLALA: Hon Deputy Speaker, the portfolio committee has rejected the amendment as proposed to clause(2) of the Bill by the, then Select Committee on Trade and International Relations. It is the first time in the history of this country that the Foreign Service will be regulated through an act of Parliament. It is a milestone achievement by this government under the stewardship of the ANC.



The Bill is going to professionalise the foreign services of the republic. Currently, the management officials from different sectors of government is highly fragmented with officials serving in the missions abroad form different departments, reporting directly to and being managed by their respective departments in South Africa. This is regarded nonconsistent and in many cases not optimal.



It was decided that legislation that can address these concerns should be developed. The Bill will seek to provide the management, administration and functioning of the Foreign Services of the Republic of South Africa. It will provide for the operational requirements that are suitable and supportive of the Foreign Service in a global environment and to provide for matters incidental thereto.



The Bill will create an enabling and administrative and management framework through which Foreign Service will be managed and regulated in a consolidated and coherent manner by Department of International Relations and Cooperation, Dirco. The Foreign Service will still be part of the public service with the added difference that



this category of employees serves the people of South Africa based in foreign lands.



The Bill was observed to have crosscutting mandates. In order to ensure the constitutionality of the Bill, and to guard against a possible encroachment into these mandates of other departments, extensive consultations were undertaken with the concerned departments to ensure policy harmony. Moreover, due to the nature of the Bill, dealing with personnel, extensive and several consultations were held with labour to ensure their by in.



A milestone provision in this Bill is that the head of mission should be a fit and proper person. Such a person can come from any corner of South Africa as the President would decide, and be trained by Dirco to serve in the Foreign Service without hindrance. This to ensure that, the face of our foreign policy remains accepted and in good stature. Gender, youth, disabled and diversity considerations should be a high priority.



The Bill has created a one pen policy where all officials serving abroad will be under the stewardship and management of the head of missions accredited. The Bill enables the head of missions to take full responsibility and accountability on the affairs of the missions concerned. The Bill provides for requirements for a person to become a member of South African Missions Abroad. Such persons must be South African citizens and must undergo vetting processes.



The Bill has taken into consideration the fact that many categories of offices serve in the missions abroad, hence it has catered for those who come from beyond the public service fold such as the members of services and those serving on contractual basis. The South African government has many properties and land parcels abroad where our diplomats stay and work.



The Bill has provided the Minister of International Relations and Cooperation to take full responsibility of managing the state-owned property portfolio abroad.

Minister of International Relations and Cooperation is empowered to acquire, manage, lease or dispose of these



immovable properties or assets abroad. Dirco has a physical presence abroad and it is Dirco that gets accredited abroad therefore, it makes sense that as a user and custodian of immovable property abroad, Dirco should take full responsibility.



There has been a tendency that other provinces decide to ignore the foreign policy of the country and undertake international engagement trips to other countries without proper co-ordination with Dirco. That practise will be curtailed by this Bill in that the Minister has powers to issue guidelines to be followed when undertaking international activities of foreign policy nature. A co- ordinating mechanism will be in place to ensure compliance and adherence with prescripts of South African Foreign Policy when engaging with international partners. The Bill... [Time expired] I so submit. Thank you very much hon Deputy Speaker.



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Deputy Speaker, I move for the adoption of this Bill. Thank you.



Declarations of vote:



Mr D BERGMAN: Hon Deputy Speaker, the Foreign Service Bill is a momentous for The Department of International Relations and Cooperation, Dirco, to take control of their own resources and to professionalise the service that is historically been a fun fare, handing out prizes to errant officials or Ministers. Dirco has often as the department had to fly South Africa through the turbulents caused by both politicians from within our country and those happily visiting our shores under the guards of diplomatic immunity, as we saw the likes of Grace Mugabe and Omar al-Bashir.



This Bill, that had major input form the DA, insists on fruitful purpose and adherence to a code of conduct from our diplomatic staff. It takes away the responsibility of operational and capital projects abroad from being undertaken by the Department of Public Works and Infrastructure, instead of Dirco.



I sat in most of the briefing sessions with other departments and stakeholders, and in the main; the Bill has taken on board any concerns and mitigated others. The only contentious issue that we picked up was that of the



Department of Public Works and Infrastructure not being keen to hand over responsibility. My personal is that this had more to do with why this Bill was delayed than something picked up by the NCOP. Our committee is unanimous in stating that these concerns have already been addressed and that there should be no further delay here.



Dirco needs to be professionalised now more than ever, and started from cleaning house form within. The Minister should take a proactive step to consolidate missions; consular services and Department of Trade and Industry, DTI, to economise on our over extended footprints that serve more as a monument of South Africa rather than giving South Africans abroad service. Our government wants to downgrade embassies that have promoted bilateral trade, medical and agricultural technology. They cannot even afford to staff missions that have major servicing issues or they have overstaffed in certain missions that remain unproductive for weeks or months on end.



It reminds me of an oversight visit that we took as the departments in the previous term where we went to



Namibia. In Namibia, you could eat off the streets, the streets of Namibia are so clean, but go and visit one of our missions and you will find that the dirtiest place in Namibia is actually South Africa. We go to South Africa and we go to our missions, we thought that we only had eight properties, by the time landed in Namibia we realised that we had 20 properties. You go to some of the best amazing suburbs, all these lovely looking gardens, three-storey houses and you see South Africa, dilapidated eroded graffiti all over the rooms, graffiti inside, people living that are not even South Africans.



Let us go back to basics and let the Bill guide us and be seen as an example of what this country can achieve when all parties work together for the benefit of our citizens, domestically and all over the world. I thank you.



Ms T P MSANE: Deputy Speaker, it is shocking that this department has been in operation all these years without a coherent law which outlines administration of embassies and missions abroad. However, the Bill, in its current form, demonstrates a continuation of incoherent approach,



or a nonexistent approach in which South Africa deals with issues of international relations.



What should come first before the Bill is the following. First, a comprehensive review on South Africa’s international relations approach at a policy level, politically, economically, as well as in infrastructure and national security. With South Africa having a footprint in missions abroad, a study on which countries will assist South Africa reach its objectives should have been done. The objectives should be mainly focused on the development of the African continent in relation to the economy, infrastructure, security and political advancement of the continent.



Secondly, the department should have conducted a proper study on effective administration on embassies and missions. A report by the Auditor-General has shown that missions and embassies work on a cash basis and money goes missing in these embassies. There is no asset register and properties can be stolen without our knowledge. There are things that should have come first before the Bill; otherwise we have a situation whereby a



ruling party took over from the murderous, apartheid, racist National Party and just continued with missions and embassies in states which will never be beneficial to the Africa united. I thank you.



Rev K R J MESHOE: Deputy Speaker, we find it difficult to understand how the Department of International Relations and Co-operation managed to operate efficiently and optimally without this Bill in place - particularly when there were conflicts within the provisions of the Public Service Act of 1994 with any other legislation.



Section 2, subsection 2 of the Bill states that where the Foreign Service Bill conflicts with the provisions of the Public Service Act of 1994, or any other legislation, and it is not possible to read the conflicting provisions as complimentary to one another, this Act that we are passing today will prevail. This Bill addresses the dilemma and uncertainty of where accountability lay in matters of misunderstanding, conflict or discipline.

Staff members from other national departments would prefer to account to the Minister or director-general of the department that accredited them, and not necessarily



the Director-General of International Relations and Co- operation.



The ACDP is satisfied that the Foreign Service Bill sets the record straight by clearly stating in section 3 of this Bill that foreign service is managed and administered by the Department of International Relations and Co-operation. The other difficulty that this department faces relates to immovable assets as they were all under the custodianship of the Department of Public Works. There are many empty buildings in countries such as Namibia that are dilapidated and unused, and are costing the Department of International Relations and Co- operation a lot of money.



The Department of International Relations and Co- operation could not dispose of them as it was not within their mandate to do so. With the passing of this Bill today - regarding the Foreign Service Act, the Minister will now be able to acquire lease or dispose of immovable assets. The ACDP welcomes the passing of the Foreign Service Act which we believe is long overdue. Thank you.



Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon members, the IFP supports the Foreign Service Bill as we did the last time when it was discussed and we believe that its implementation cannot be delayed any longer because it seeks to achieve what we all want - a professional foreign service, the one which can be able to carry on its shoulders the collective dreams, hopes and aspirations of South Africa on the international stage.



So, we hope that the clarities which it provides will make it very easy for accountability and also financial management to ensure that we hold people accountable on the basis of very clear legislation. Hon Deputy Speaker, it is important that we do first things first. The first one is to create the framework which the Bill provides, of course for professionalising foreign service.



Moving forward, the Department of International Relations and Co-operation has a lot more work that still needs to be done - the rationalising of the embassies with the view to cut costs, as we all know that South Africa is at this point in time in very troubled and dire economic



waters. So, it’s important that we save money wherever is possible.



We hope that that exercise will gain the necessary traction at this point. Moreover, hon Deputy Speaker, it is important that the department will of course prioritise further training of individuals and persons to be able to be equal to the task and the provisions of this Bill so that it is not just a paper Bill but that it actually walks its talk and is able to strengthen the work that we want to do.



The IFP, having considered all the factors as we did again like the last time where we looked at this report, we see no reason why it should not go through this House. It has been a long time in the making and it now needs to be implemented. We hope that the collective realities which it espouses will be realised through its implementation. I thank you.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Deputy Speaker, the NFP welcomes the amendment tabled here today. Indeed, we think it will go a long way in ensuring that we professionalise and manage



our affairs internationally, given the fact that we have been experiencing a lot of challenges in the past. I think we should also welcome the statement earlier on today in terms of provincial visits and things abroad which will now have to be engaged particularly with the Department of International Relations and Co-operation.



I can tell you without a doubt that provinces have visited every country that you can find abroad. Actually, we spend more time outside the country than we do inside the country. I think the time has come for us to look into these things - I do agree. With regard to the issue of our assets internationally - even when I was attending some of the Southern African Development Community, SADC, conferences - we found that there are a lot of properties that belong to the state. We are now hoping that with this new initiative there would be greater control over that as well.



I will be failing if I do not say that this department also has a very important role to play. Hon Minister, in your presence here – on behalf of the NFP, I want to condemn with the contempt it deserves the actions of the



Israeli government. The other day, an entire family was massacred mercilessly at the hands of the Israeli government - including children and infants.



That is why this is the call by our party and many others that you accelerate your conference in the downgrading of the South African embassy in Israel so that we could bring this Israeli government to a situation where they would be prepared to negotiate and ensure that there is a peaceful solution to what is happening, particularly in Palestine. We cannot allow a law-abiding country like South Africa ... and I want to once again state what our former President Madiba said that we in South Africa cannot call ourselves free unless the people of Palestine are free.



So, I want to urge and plead with the department to deal particularly with those issues, such as the downgrading of the South African embassy. The department should also put pressure on the Israeli government to come back to the negotiating table. I once again want to refer to the statement two days ago by the United States government when it said that the Israeli government’s new



settlements are acceptable. This must also be condemned by the South African government because indeed we have a role to play internationally to ensure that these human rights violations are stopped. The NFP supports this and is quite happy about what is happening. Thank you.



Mr T S MPANZA: Deputy Speaker, the ANC welcomes the amendments as the Bill will address the challenges where other spheres of government are conducting international activities of foreign policy measure without proper consultation and co-ordination by the Department of International Relations and Co-operation. The status of the diplomatic academy has been strengthened in this Bill all officers to be posted abroad including heads of nation will undergo a compulsory diplomatic training course before proceeding to their respective missions.



This will help to equip the officers with the necessary skills and knowledge of SA foreign policy before going on posting.



The Bill also provides for the heads of nation to initiate - in consultation with Department of



International Relations and Co-operation, Dirco, and relevant departments – a recall of members of foreign service from their posting abroad. This process will assist the department to manage cases that will require a recall. A recall of serving officers is a very important process. It can be triggered by many incidences including; if such a person conducts himself or herself in an unbecoming manner and being declared a persona non grata, undesirable by the receiving state. Such a person should immediately be sent home where disciplinary processes by the relevant department should begin.



The Bill provides for the ways of dealing with offences relating to the spirit of the Bill. The Minister is also empowered to make the necessary regulations, codes and directives that will assist in the implementation of the Bill. So, the ANC welcomes these amendments.








Motion agreed to.



Bill accordingly passed.












There was no debate.



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Deputy Speaker, I move:



That the Reports be adopted.



Thank you.



Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Inkatha Freedom Party, African Christian Democratic Party and African National Congress.



Declarations of vote:


Mr S J F MARAIS: Thank you very much, Chair. These Reports are reflecting of a dire and dying state of our defence capabilities. They reflect the desperation of the commanding officers. If action is not urgently taken, we will never progress beyond milestone 1 of the 2015 defence review.



In all my years I have never observed so much desperation from these leaders. If urgent action is not taken, we will only have an air wing, a water wing, a further aging army with fewer capabilities and a collapsing medical support capability. There are no funds to refit our vessels and to acquire the minimum air capabilities. The reality is that our GDP remains unacceptably low. Defence spending is not a priority. The National Treasury will not amend their spending guidelines. The 2015 defence



policy is unrealistic, unsustainable and the special defence account is nearly depleted.



Our defence industry is dying due to the inability of our defence force to buy their products, the National Conventional Arms Control Committee, NCACC, to waive the notorious end-user certificate requirement beyond that which is prescribed by the United Nations, UN. Companies are closing down and allaying off workers as a result of this unnecessary requirement. It is disappointing that the Minister and the defence leadership only have the one unaffordable and unsustainable solution and that is more money in support of the 2015 defence review as the only defence policy.



There is clearly no political and leadership will to right-size the defence force and reprioritise spending to meet the requirements of section 200 of the Constitution. History will harshly judge the Minister and the government for ignoring the threats while there are solutions to right-size the defence. The Minister and the decision makers should be locked-in and only allowed to



get out once they have come up with the realistic solution. I thank you.



Ms N K F HLONYANA: Deputy Speaker, for the past 17 years we had one report after another detailing the extent of decline of our defence force. The 2015 Defence Review Report, for example, spark demonstrated that the decline in defence allocation has declined year on year by approximately in real terms over the last 20 years to less than 1% of the GDP resulting in the loss of essential defence capabilities.



The result of these has been horrendous and the defence review noted the consequence as a last of significant impact on the capacity and capabilities of the Department of Defence and Military Veterans and the level defence ambitions in support of this national interest and foreign policy. A properly thought out legislative mechanism ought to have dealt with the funding model of our defence force to ensure that the ambitions of the defence force and the resources available are not out of sync with each other.



The defence review did not end on the matter of funding alone it advocated the role of the military in support of the SA developmental state and the harnessing of the national resources to the benefit of the population.



This could be done through the virtues of the military services and socialising and educating young adults and enhancing the national skills based on the economic benefit that might flow from military procurements to local businesses and national industry.



The support of military ingenious and medical staff as well as the Air Force can sometimes provide for civilian projects. None of these things have been done. No plan has been put in place to ensure that this happens. As a result of the real potential the military has unlocked the economic benefits of our country has not been realised. We could be training doctors, technicians, engineers, military scientists and pilots at a large scale while at the same time improving our capacity to defend our nation. [Time expired.] We reject the Report. Thank you.



Inkosi R N CEBEKHULU: Thank you Deputy Speaker. The hon members who have read this Report will at the outset notes that all is not well with this department. Deputy Speaker, I am tempted to name the department as the department of defending maladministration and uMkhonto weSizwe, MK, military veterans. The importance of this department is to ensure our sovereign safety and security cannot be reduced to being called that. It simply cannot fail our people, our country and our neighbours on the African Continent.



Considering the current budget constrains and the fact that this department has been one of the casualties of budget cut, it is not surprising that many strategic targets were not met. We understand this. Deputy Speaker, before we can address the issue of overall discipline within the ranks of the defence force and within the administration, we must right at the top address issues of senior management who are not setting an example.

Senior management spectacular failure to sign performance agreements on time, overseeing poor financial management, billions of irregular expenditure, clear lack of internal controls, the inability to implement measures of the 2015



Defence Review, in particular, regarding the ratio of employment to budget and the lack of consequences for fraudulent behaviour and activities, are all makers by which we must measure the management within defence.



We need to clear up these operations, we need to restore confidence and we need to focus our attention to building a capable, disciplined and innovative 21st Century defence force. [Time expired.]





Kubeyishwa kodwa seyawesekela uMbiko.



Mr S N SWART: Deputy Speaker, the ACDP joined the newly sworn in parliamentarians at the Presidential inauguration in Pretoria. We were all in awe of the display of the SA Air force as well as the battalion strength March past. Our SA National Defence Force is and should be a source of pride for each one of us.



Sadly, as pointed out in this Report the military is facing a dire financial and resource situation. This is not something new. We have witnessed this decline over a



number of years. The situation has, however, now reached crisis proportions with the National Treasury recommending the baseline deduction of its allocation over the medium term. We understand the financial constraints, however, this will severely hamper the military in carrying out its constitutional mandate, its peacekeeping mandate and its border protection mandate. It requires additional funding, not a cut in its budget.



We support additional funding for the purpose of border safeguarding. We are all in agreement that we have porous borders with illegal immigrants as well as criminal activities. The number of military subunits must be increased on our borders. The committee has also expressed concerns about reimbursements from the United Nations for SA military troop deployment on peacekeeping missions. The unserviceability of our prime mission equipment in mission areas has resulted in R54 million not being repaid to us. These are funds that the defence force can ill afford to lose.



Lastly, the ACDP supports the recommendations in the Report that ... [Inaudible.] ... enough upgrades for SA



Navy ... [Inaudible.] ... submarines must be carried out according to schedule. This is a no-brainer effort and funds must be prioritised for this purpose, failing these lives that we put at risk. This must be avoided at all costs. I thank you.



Mr V C XABA: Thank you very much, hon Deputy Speaker. Firstly, we would like to express our appreciation to the Department of Defence and Military Veterans especially the SA National Defence Force for its dedication and commitment to protect and safeguard our country through its border safeguarding activities and its support to the SA Police Service, SAPS.



Its role in the recent national elections is being commended. Its contribution to regional security through its involvement in the peacekeeping mission abroad, their assistance during disasters bears testimony to the resolve and commitment of our soldiers and their leadership. While we applaud these efforts, we are keenly aware are of the budgetary constrains and the necessity to increase funding to the Department of Defence and Military Veterans.



We took note that the Department of Defence and Military Veterans has marginally improved its annual performance. The role out of the educational benefits, healthcare and especially the social relief of distress is welcomed.

Specially, given the dire straits military veterans find themselves in. We were also strongly impressed on the Department of Defence and Military Veterans that the military veterans that are on the national database should be verified and finalised by the end of this calendar year as it is central to effective planning and budgeting.



We have registered our concern regarding the delivery of houses and access to health and subsidised public transport for military veterans. As Armaments Corporation of South Africa, Armscor, our defence acquisition agency, has the SA National Defence Force, SANDF, as its main client, we note its turnaround strategy. We further welcome their commitment to local procurement. We also encourage them to support local development activities.



In conclusion, hon Deputy Speaker, we acknowledge the challenges and achievements in the defence environment



and we endeavour to assist the department and its entities to achieve their mandate. I therefore, support the Reports. Thank you.



Motion agreed to.



Report on Department of Military Veterans accordingly adopted (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).



Report on Castle Control Board, Armaments Corporation of South Africa and Office of Military Ombud accordingly adopted (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).



Report on Department of Defence accordingly adopted (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).






There was no debate.



The Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted.







ndiphakamisa ukuba le ngxelo yezemfundo mayamkelwe. Enkosi.



Declarations of vote:


Mr B B NODADA: Deputy Speaker, as we speak, 5 941 Technical and Vocational Education and Training, TVET, students and 14 000 university students are writing exams without food, transport and accommodation allowances. It is a grave worry that the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, could not submit their budget and performance report on time, due to the fact that they cannot adequately account for the R30 billion allocated to them in the 2018-19 financial year, which should be a worry to all of us.



What is further concerning is the rolling R7,5 billion irregular expenditure that was meant for poor students’ tuition, accommodation, food and book allowances.



This entity is riddled with corruption, fraud and money laundering. The only reason that they can do this is because there is an extremely poor ICT infrastructure, which cannot properly harvest the student data and properly manage the disbursement of student allowances.



The most shocking is the R5,3 million lost to asset managers, who gave tenders to the defunct VBS Mutual Bank to disburse students’ funds.



We as the DA strongly believe that there is a need to completely overhaul NSFAS, reimagine how it operates, appoint new management, build ICT architecture, which will ensure a seamless disbursement process.



Furthermore, we are also still waiting for the 2018 curriculum review report that will ensure that skills acquired by the students in TVET colleges are relevant for problem-solving and the job market, to avoid them contributing to the 10 million unemployed South Africans.



Lastly, there is no one accountable for the TVET certification backlog that has left many graduates



sitting at home and without work. It must be noted that there is a fundamental need for us to review the value for money versus the skills developed by some of our Sector Education and Training Authorities, Setas, that are cash cows, without completion of programmes, let alone attaining tangible skills transferred to students.



The Auditor-General has indicated a R1,1 billion irregular expenditure by these Setas. It seems as if the education entities are repeating this irregular culture. And although we have made proper recommendations, we do support the report. [Time expired.] [Applause.]



Mr P P KEETSE: Deputy Speaker, during the 2018 state of the nation address, President Ramaphosa stood here and proclaimed that his government is still committed to fee- free higher education, but today, thousands of brilliant minds of black people are still excluded by the institutions on the basis that they are poor and black.



There is currently more than R1 billion student debt that was obtained when the announcement of fee-free education was made. Many students are unable to apply for



employment because the institutions are withholding their qualifications, precisely because they cannot settle their debt.



NSFAS is not capacitated enough to disburse funds for students, as this was proven in the last two years where students get to write exams without receiving money from this loan scheme.



In fact, there has been massive corruption in that entity, as the Auditor-General’s report suggested. We are tired of government entities sustaining factions within the ruling party. The money meant for the poor must go to the poor. How do we support the budget of a department that cannot explain the budget of over R3 billion, which was meant for the Infrastructure Efficiency Grant and meant to build new TVET campuses? Thus far, there is only one TVET colleges completed out of the twelve that were promised. We know very well that the status of TVET colleges in this country is very shocking.



There is currently a shortage of more than 3 000 beds in the institutions of higher learning and this mostly



affects the previously disadvantaged institutions and particularly, the TVET colleges.



The number of NSFAS recipients should be increased, because we have learned that the majority of students, who graduate on time, are the students who are using NSFAS. Therefore, we ought to increase the number of students who are going to be receive the NSFAS bursary. Then we can increase the throughput and output here in South Africa. The hunger ... [Time expired.]



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, look at the time. It is has completely gone beyond that.



Mr P P KEETSE: It is not true.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You cannot contest that, sir. It is completely over. It is red.



Mr P P KEETSE: With the majority of industries starting to employ effective and efficient ways of maximising ...



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Your time has expired, sir. [Interjections.] Order, hon members! You also overestimate your time.



Mr S L NGCOBO: Hon Deputy Speaker, the IFP supports this budgetary review and recommendation report. We do so with much reservation. The National Student Financial Aid Scheme is in desperate need of reconstruction. The IFP is undoubtedly in full agreement with the administrator’s assertion that the NSFAS needs a complete overhaul.



It has for decades been plagued by poor leadership and mismanagement. Its operating model and governing structure have failed to ensure that its mandate is fully reached and that our students are fully covered.



NSFAS only achieved two out of 16 key performance indicators in their review. Therefore, a complete reimagination of the mission, vision and objectives of NSFAS is required.



We have this opportunity now, during this difficulty, to rethink, redo and rework NSFAS to truly afford all our



qualifying students the opportunity, once deprived, to learn. We all want NSFAS to work. Finding a lasting solution to the plight of assisting needy students is a collective goal we should all strive to achieve.



Let us reimagine this funding scheme to be free of corruption, to be effective, to be efficient, and to change lives. There are many issues within the higher education and training sector that I cannot address at this opportunity. History will certainly judge us harshly, if we sit back and allow some of these practices to persist, as reported in this review.



We have a moral obligation to ensure that we do well by the future generation and this begins here with us.

Student accommodation in higher education institutions is another issue that we have the responsibility ... [Inaudible.] ... university and society. The IFP supports. [Time expired.]






Dr W J BOSHOFF: Agb Adjunkspeaker, as daar een ding is wat duidelik is, dan is dit dat daar meer foute is as wat mens in hierdie debat in twee minute gesê kan kry.



Wat die hoër onderwyssektor betref, is dit duidelik dat dit hoër onderwys is wat verantwoordelik daarvoor is dat mense werk kry of nie.



In Suid-Afrika is die heel swakste kwalifikasie wat jy kan hê, uit ’n werksoogpunt, Graad 11. Die tweede swakste is Graad 12. As jy ’n laer kwalifikasie as Graad 11 het, met ’n tegniese kwalifikasie daarby, is jou kans beter om werk te kry as met matriek en daarom is hierdie departement se rol so ongelooflik belangrik.



Dit word dan gedoen deur die universiteitsektor, sowel as die post-school education sector [post-skool onderwyssektor], met die community colleges [gemeenskapskolleges] en die TVET-kolleges [Tegniese- en Beroepsonderwys- en- Opleidingskolleges]. Dit moet grootliks deur NSFAS, [die Nasionale Finansiële Hulpskema vir Studente], wat beurse aan behoeftige studente moet lewer, gefinansier word.



Nou as mens kyk hoe belangrik die rol van hierdie departement is, dan is dit eintlik jammer dat hy so hopeloos bestuur word, want NSFAS [die Nasionale Finansiële Hulpskema vir Studente] is in ’n voortdurende krisis.



Die administrateur het self erken dat die ding heeltemal van voor af ontwerp moet word en een van die basiese probleme is dat daar geen teenprestasie van die studente verwag word nie. Daar is nie ’n soort van ’n nasionale diensplig of ’n beurs of ’n terugwerkverpligting nie, wat maak dat mense enige iets gaan studeer, ongeag of dit in die mark nodig is, en nie die verantwoordelikheid daarvoor neem nie.



Die groter probleem, uit die oogpunt van die VF Plus, is dat Afrikaans geheel en al, op verskeie maniere uit die hoër onderwyssektor uitgedruk is, dat die Minister se antwoord selfs daarop dui dat private universiteite of instansies van hoër opleiding, volgens hom, nie Afrikaans kan gebruik nie, omdat dit ’n vorm van uitsluiting is.



Ons beskou dit as in stryd met konvensies, wat die Suid- Afrikaans regering onderteken het, en kan dus nie hierdie verslag ondersteun nie. [Tyd is verstreke.]



Ms M E SUKERS: Hon Deputy Speaker, in considering the report on higher education, it is important to note that

25 years after the advent of our democracy, we sit with a youth unemployment rate of over 55%. As a nation, we are failing to capitalise on the youth population and this is attributed mostly to connecting our children with opportunities to learn or to develop skills that are needed by the economy.



Most of our children do not have a landing place after they finish school or when they drop out and fail to complete their secondary education. The big question is: How do we connect the youth with opportunities to learn and further their skills, using the very medium that they are fascinated by - technology? How do we improve or transform the higher education system to address the youth that are currently unemployable?



There is a critical requirement for skills development programmes and vocational training programmes targeted at young people within the sectors of the economy, where there are skills shortages such as engineering, information technology, construction, among other things.



There should be an emphasis on school-leaving programmes that target youth at risk, who does not qualify for universities, who are not currently in the education system and who are not accommodated by it.



Our biggest concern in this budgetary review report, while we are discussing this budget report, is how to include the youth that are currently not in the education system. How do we link our youth with opportunities to further their learning at private institutions? There is a shift needed that is recognised by those in the field of higher learning – a shift that will meet the needs of the economy and that will capitalise on the youth in South Africa. Thank you.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Deputy Speaker, the NFP welcomes and supports the report of the Department of Higher Education tabled here today.



It is common knowledge that NSFAS has been experiencing great difficulty for a long period of time and I know that the former Minister had made some interventions and of course very successful interventions. However, I think since her movement to the other department – International Relations – it appears that there has been a setback again.



Let me also add that, while this department is performing dismally and very poorly, there are greater challenges particularly, when you talk about NSFAS. I am not sure whether NSFAS has done this deliberately – to run away from a problem where funds are now being allocated through the e-wallet system.



However, I think what is very important is that what we find now is that you will find that the students are no longer even buying the textbooks, especially, if you look at the latest statistics or the report that has come.



There has been a drop of 60% in purchasing the textbooks, in order to continue with their studies. So, what does it mean if you are actually giving that money through the e- wallet system?



Those learners are not interested in education anymore. That money is being used for everything else, but for the purpose that it was intended. I think the problem is bigger. At some stage, we have to debate and look at another mechanism that we need to deal with. Clearly, the system of giving the money directly to these students is not really working. It is becoming a major problem.



The other problem is TVET colleges, which is almost entirely funded by government. TVET colleges are not talking to the skills shortages in the country. TVET colleges, based on the lecturers that they have, decide what the curriculum is. There needs to be a balance so that they can talk to the skills shortages of South Africa.



So, we need to look at this. We need a debate at some stage, in order to deal with the mismanagement of NSFAS



and also talk about what is happening with the funds that


... [Inaudible.] [Time expired.]



Mr L M NTSHAYISA: Thank you very much hon Deputy Speaker, as our national blueprint, the National Development Plan, NDP, implores all the different role-players in the education sector to work together; allowing learners to take different pathways that offer high quality learning opportunities.



It further goes on to say that there should be clear linkages between schools, Further Education and Training, FET, colleges, universities and providers of education and training.



One of the recommendations made by the committee is for the department to increase the enrolment in Technical and Vocational Education and Training, Tvet, sector. While this is unimpeachable, we have reservations about the department’s commitment to meet the NDP’s enrolment targets. This is because of the 12 promised Tvet colleges to be built by 2020 by government, only one has taken



off. This is appalling and the committee has correctly noted this.



The committee’s proposed establishment of a joint team comprising of Basic Education and Higher Education, Science and Technology to review education curriculum in the context of university streams and pathways must not only be confined to universities.



In the wake of the Department of Basic Education’s introduction of general education certificate for Grade 9 learners – a transitional certificate so to speak, we need to properly equip and restructure the model of Tvet colleges. In fact, we have long been calling for the certification of Grade 9 as the AIC. It can be seen in our manifesto.



The Human Resource Development Council of SA, HRDC, has its work cut out for it. Skills development is central to an effective and thriving economy. The HRDC has to monitor the work of the department and its entities to ensure that they give attention to creating responsive



skills system in the country’s education sector. [Time expired.] Thank you.



Ms J S MANANISO: Hon Deputy Speaker, education remains an apex priority for the ANC and government; this includes higher education and training. The implementation of ANC policies and programmes is to ensure that our people access institutions of higher learning and training from any race, sex and class.



As the ANC, we emphasise our quest to promote Community Education and Training, CETs, and Tvets as institutions of choice as they are just as deserving as universities. We also acknowledge the efforts being made to strengthen the post-school system to become more response to the needs of these citizens and ensure the social and economical development of the country.



South Africa is faced with the challenges of transforming its economy growing rapidly to deal with unemployment, particularly youth unemployment. Key to this is ensuring that skills taught to students are the skill needed by the country. We must expedite the process of matching the



two. I think hon Shaik is answered on the issue of skills match. As the ANC, we are committed to that course.



Whilst we appreciate the increase in funding for access to post-education, we must ensure that students receive their funding timeously.



We must commit to supporting legal institutions in doing their job to eradication unethical conduct and corruption in our institutions as these conducts seeks to reverse the gains of democracy. Hon Ngcobo, we are committed to deal with corruption.



As we note the introduction of the new system to accelerate the efforts to the thousands of our youth to have access to their certificates, we must rigorously and completely do away with the legacy system. The issue of backlog system to our certificates must be dealt with. We must plan, target, implement and achieve as the department. We support the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]



Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters, Freedom Front Plus and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).



Report accordingly adopted.






There was no debate





SEMESEGOLO SA LEKOKO LE LE BUSANG: Ke tshisinya gore pegelo eno e amogelwe.



Declaration of vote


Mr B B NODADA: Deputy Speaker, the DA would like to commend the good work done by the department of science and innovation and its entities with a stringent budget it has. However, we have particular concerns regarding the BRRR.



The decreased allocation is of great concern considering the good work done by the department. Science related inflation is higher than the standard inflation ... if you didn’t know ... hence allocations must be in line with the science, technology and innovation objectives.



We need to find a greater role for science and innovation to play in our education system; our Department Higher Education, Science and Technology, government information communications technology, ICT, system so that they can deal with ensuring that we have big data that is transferred into departments and the way in which they operate must be ICT relevant.



Please note that the department of higher education and training seems to have a common thread of irregular, wasteful and fruitless expenditure. It is high time that they take note and learn some lessons from the department of science and innovation with its entities on how they can best deal to make sure they deliver on the services needed for the country. We support the BRRR. [Applause.]



Mr P P KEETSE: Thank you very much comrade Deputy Speaker, we are at crossroads with regard to conceptualisation of development in the country. Time is now opportune for the country to use science, technology and innovation not as ends in themselves but to produce the knowledge, information, skills and talents needed to support, facilitate and fuel the development and growth of strategic industries and sectors of economy and society which are central to the overall independence and sovereignty of South Africa and African people.



In order for these to happen, there must be a deliberate focus on the knowledge acquisition, deepening of knowledge creation and transfer of knowledge developing and nurturing a culture of innovation and ensuring that research and development spending accounts to around 2,5% of the gross domestic product, GDP, in the near future.



We need to start thinking about connecting all schools to high-speed fibre, building and upgrading computer and sciences laboratories and provide all necessary equipments to every school. We need to start integrating critical thinking and problem solving into every part of



school curriculum and institutionalise the use of technology across the curriculum and also into teaching methods.



Our public schools must include robotics and coding in the curriculum that is yet to come. Of course, we know very well that the Department of Higher Education, Science and Technology is seriously struggling to develop and be innovative. The only thing we have asked is: What is it that you have developed and innovatively so? We were told about three electrical scooters that are in Cape Town. Considering the amount of budget they get, they could only show us the electrical scooter while there is a young man called Mokgadi Machaba in Limpopo province who built a vehicle from scratch; the only funding he had was his mother’s social grant ... [Applause.] ... that will normally help him to buy some of the parts. [Time expired.] ... but we have a department with plenty of money but is unable to give us even a single innovative product. Thank you very much.



Mr S L NGCOBO: Deputy Speaker, South Arica is doing so well so far in the Higher Education, Science and



Technology. Without technology we are doomed as a country and we must keep up with the rest of the world. The important thing therefore is going to be how we fund this science and technology, because that is going to be crucial to the country. Therefore, the Department of Education, Science and Technology must rest assured that we will keep watch all the time to make sure that money is well spent. We support the recommendation. Thank you.



Dr W J BOSHOFF: Mr Deputy Speaker, all aspects of the economy to a certain extend rest on the principles of science and innovation, therefore it is very important that this is a well-managed and well run department. It works mainly with its three entities; the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, CSIR, the Human Sciences Research Council, HSRC, National Research Foundation, NRF, and the Technology Innovation Agency, TIA, which are all institutions which do valuable work, in terms of the economy of South Africa.



This whole field of science and innovation is such that if you have first fallen back, then it is very hard to keep up once again or to catch up once again. It doesn’t



create an immediate crisis if you stop looking well after these institutions but once you feel or you experience a crisis, it is nearly impossible really, to catch once again. Developmental states such as South Africa have a way of importing these skills and knowledge at high at cost.



South Africa however on the other hand decides to drive away these skills and knowledge by a policy of race quotas and empowerment quotas. That is in fact a very negative part of the whole system in South Africa. Now, the question which we have is why the impact study on the skill, knowledge and ability, SKA, was not done by the HSRC, which is exactly meant for that kind of research and rather done by the SCIR which focuses on natural sciences, rather than the social sciences. If take everything into consideration, the FF Plus supports this Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR. Thank you.



Mr W M THRING: Hon Deputy Speaker, the ACD notes that the mandate of the Department of Education, Science and Technology is to position science, technology and



innovation within the framework of the National Development Plan. In pursuit of this the department has directed its efforts and resources towards the following five strategic outcome oriented goals. Firstly, responsive coordinated and efficient national systems of innovation. Secondly, increase knowledge generation.

Thirdly, human capital development. Fourthly, using knowledge for economic development, and 5. Fifthly, knowledge utilisation for inclusive development.



The ACDP, concurs that science, technology and innovation are considered crucial for the creation of wealth and improving the quality of life in modern society. There can be no denying the speed at which technology is increasing and if South Africa wishes to create a niche for itself in the Fourth Industrial Revolution, then a deliberate focus on science, technology, innovation, research and development is a must.



The ACD however, is concerned about the findings of a recent survey carried out by the Centre for Science, Technology and Innovation indicators of the Human Science Research Council for the Department of Science and



Innovation, which found that South Africa’s gross expenditure on research and development is decelerating. It also found that the relative share of business in national research and development has declined over time from 56% to 41% in 2017-18, and that mining and manufacturing research and development has also declined.



The ACDP further notes with great concern the high level of vacant posts within the department at 18,4 % and a reported under spending of R66,5 million. If we wish to position South Africa as the country which leads the continent as we step into Fourth Industrial Revolution, it can not be done with a high level of vacant posts and millions being under spent. Thank you.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Deputy Speaker, the NFP supports the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, of the Department of Education, Science and Technology tabled here today. Innovation, science and technology play a critical role in job creation to increase productivity, improve the lives of the poor by providing better products and services, generating higher levels of income



and returns, attracting investment and building infrastructure.



We commend the department for supporting the 3D technology research, South Africa demonstrates where cross capabilities in terms of 3D technology. We’ve been positioned to participate in subsectors with high growth potential such as aerospace application, medical and dental services.



The NFP would like to congratulate the seven female researchers, five doctoral and two post doctoral who were selected for the scientific excellence of the work from over 175 applicants by a jury of independent experts at the first edition of the Laurel United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization, UNESCO, for Women in science South Africa National Programme on 12 November 2019. Now, while South Africa has made a lot of progress, I think we are still lagging behind in terms of what our counter parts, particularly in the African continent and with the Fourth Industrial Revolution looming, we believe that this particular department and based on its performance must be supported



so that it could continue with the good work that it has been doing.



One way of doing that is ensuring that this department is adequately provided with budget that it needs. So, any budget cuts with for this department is going to be detrimental to the success of this department. We believe that we need to deal with issue of cutting budget for this department. The NFP supports this Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, tabled here. Thank you.



Mr J J MAAKE: Hon Deputy Speaker, the 54th ANC Elective Conference resolved that:



The challenges of new technology and the Fourth Industrial Revolution require revolutionary approach to training and skills development.



The National Development Plan, NDP, also acknowledges that science, technology and innovation are crucial to enabling broad base socio-economic development through a skilled and innovative population. The NDP aimed to fight the interlink challenges of unemployment, poverty and



inequality, accord science, technology and innovation a central role in their struggle.



Our national system of innovation has the potential to contribute significantly to improving the quality of education, accelerating skill development, building the capacity of the state and increasing employment through faster economic growth. As we take science and innovation to the people and improving the quality of life of our people, we must make science and innovation more relatable to our people, through increasing their languages in which information on science is shared and of course data must fall on that part.



As we appreciate the measure of the Department of Education, Science and Technology, we must look into how we can create synergy between National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, and National Research Foundation, NRF, as we advocate for more young black women to progress towards postgraduate studies. As we appreciate the adoption of multilateral agreement such as the Square Kilometres Array, SKA, observatory we must ensure that



this agreements do not compromise the country’s national priorities.



As the President spoke on the need for a national social compact in state of the nation address, private sector must equally come on board in funding research and development to address our national priorities. We appreciate that the department with its entities, spend their allocated budget, achieved the significant percentage on their performance targets and adhere to legislative prescript. Hon Shaik Fourth Industrial Revolution, 4IR, is not looming, is here and I just wanted to correct one thing said by my colleague, hon Keetse that on 9 July when we debated budget vote 15, we spoke on what we doing now and not on what he is doing. Thanks.



Agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting)



Report accordingly adopted.









There was no debate.



The CHIEF WHIP OF MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Speaker, I move for the adoption of this report. Thank you.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The motion is that the report be adopted.



Mr J W W JULIUS: Deputy Speaker, the DA would like to make a declaration.



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please, go ahead. When you make a declaration, mam, you sit in the front seat. Don’t hesitate, the front benches are available for you. [Applause.]



Declarations of vote:


Ms E L POWELL: How any hon member of this House can support this whitewash of a BRRR, in light of recent developments, is a scandal. Just a cursory glance at the



departments’ entities such as the Social Housing Regulatory Authority ...



THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, the noise levels are out of order. [Interjections.] No, no, you can’t do that. You cannot accept yourself to be shouted and screamed at like that. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. [Applause] Please, take your noise levels down. Go ahead, hon member.



Ms E L POWELL: Just a cursory glance at the departments’ entities such as the Social Housing Regulatory Authority, Shra, reveals endemic mismanagement and a systematic failure to meet targets.



While the Shra’s mandate is to deliver affordable rental housing for low income groups, they have little to show for it.



Not only did the entity this year record R26,7 million in irregular expenditure but they also achieved a miserable 51,2% of their housing targets.



And still, their chief executive officer was rewarded with an almost triple inflation rate increase meaning that he now earns R2,9 million a year – which is more than the Minister herself.



To add insult to injury, last week the hon Minister Sisulu appointed none other than the notorious ex Social Development Minister, Bathabile Dlamini, as the Chairperson of the Shra’s Board.



That’s right South Africa, the woman who almost brought the payment of social grants to a grinding halt - impacting more than a third of this nation’s poorest citizens – is now tasked with ensuring that the destitute have access to housing.



This is unconscionable. Dlamini resigned as a member of this very House earlier this year after being flagged for investigation by the ANC's own integrity committee. In the aftermath of the social grants scandal, the Constitutional Court also indicated that Dlamini’s conduct was reckless and grossly negligent and she still



has a host of other cases to answer for, including perjury, lying under oath and irregular expenditure.



It seems that in her run to become 2IC, the hon Sisulu has unmasked herself as wiling to cosy up to powerful allies on the ANC’s National Executive regardless of the cost of capital punishment. The DA does not support this report. [Time expired.] [Applause.]



Ms L H ARRIES: Chairperson, today, 25 years after attainment of freedom, over five million African people are still living in informal settlements. Over 300 000 thousands coloured people are still living in informal dwellings. This is an addition to over two million people whose standards to house security in precursory living on farms. They can be evicted any day. They have no running water, no embellishing facilities and they share their homes with rats and flies. This is a daily reality of most of our people, despite many promises for a better life for all since 1994.



Then there are those who want work who and are now under retrenchments who get evicted from their houses by the



banks even though the capital amount has been paid. This is so because the property regulatory environment is hostile for our poor people. Banks have been given access powers to arrest poor people. For this reason, we need to legislate for the reduction of 20 to 30 years housing loans to a maximum of 10 years. We must also make it illegal for banks to repossessed houses for people who have paid 50% of their bonds and are unable to continue paying the bonds instalments due to social economic circumstances.



The state must invest in building the capacity of municipalities to employ artisans to repair damage water infrastructure to prevent leaks and also ensure the water infrastructure is delivered to each and every corner where there are human beings in this country.



We must invest in desalination of sea water to ensure our water security during times of drought. This department has failed to secure short to long term future because of its inability to plan. Therefore, the EFF reject this report. [Applause.]



Mr X NGWEZI: Hon Deputy Speaker, the IFP would like to thank the department for tabling its turnaround strategy. Building from my argument a week ago on water security in South Africa whereby I highlighted the need for government to implement strategies and not merely leave it on the desk of high level officials, the Auditor- general’s audit outcome under Programme 3 dealing with programme delivery also found serious issues in assessing the department’s performance indicators in this regard, and further laments my point of the need of implementation.



There was insufficient evidence to support the department’s achievements, which speaks precisely to issues of implementation of programmes and strategies.



This department has had 18 cases of fraud and corruption reported in 2018-19 alone. These cases deal with allegations of fraud, the fraudulent sale of houses, fraudulent award of scholarships and RDP houses. This is something that cannot be accepted.



Moreover, the department had been weak on the details as to what the outcomes of this investigation have been and what consequences of the transgressors face regarding these reports as well as irregular expenditure. This is unacceptable by the department, and yet, its main purpose for service delivery when issuing the title deeds has been lacking to say the least.



Of the mere number of houses delivered, only a quarter of the title deeds have been issued. We urge this department to ensure that its strategy to address the backlog is sufficient, free from corruption and deliver the dignity to the people they deserve.



In conclusion, the IFP would like to welcome the Constitutional Court decision to support the High Court judgement to set aside the ministerial approval of a coal mine located within the Mabola Protected Environment. The approval of this mine by the Cabinet would have negatively impacted on natural wetlands rivers which form part of the integral part of our fresh water system. With those words, Deputy Speaker, the IFP supports this BRRR. Thank you.



Mr P MEY: I was involved in low cost housing for many years.





Ek het in my nooienstoespraak gesê, wat in Suid-Afrika moet gebeur is dat landbougrond ... [Interjections.]





Many years.





... vir residensiële doeleindes beskikbaar gestel moet word. Die ontkoppeling moet vinniger plaasvind. Ek is bly om te kan sê dat ek gehoor het dat die ANC 14 000 hektaar om stede beskikbaar gaan stel. Dis ’n positiewe poging.



Nie een van ons in hierdie Huis wil sien dat iemand in ’n twee by drie sinkhuisie, met flenters sinkplate bly nie. Dit is ’n hartseer storie. Ek het nou weer gesien, toe ek eergister daar by Uitenhage gery het dat die mense behoorlik self in die pad bou. Hoe kan ons dit voorkom?

Daar is ’n maklike antwoord.



Ons moet een ding in gedagte hou en dit is dat daar beplanning moet wees. Ons moet spesifiek weet waar die volgende behuisingprojek gaan begin.



’n Ses by drie sinkhuis, die grootte van ’n garage, kos vandag ongeveer R15 000. Dit word in panele gebou. Dan moet ons daardie huise daar gaan oprig. Dit kan herskuif word, omdat dit in panele gebou kan word. Dit is baie maklik, en sodoende hoef mense nie soos plakkers in flenter huisies te bly nie.



Ek wil u vandag net een ding sê: Beplanning is die antwoord. Sonder beplanning sal ons nooit hierdie beshuisingsprobleem oplos nie.



Ons moet onthou, soos ek op ’n vorige geleentheid gesê het, dat die plakker nie uit die lig val nie; hy het gisteraand in ’n huis geslaap en daarom kan en moet ons beplan. Die VF Plus ondersteun nie die verslag nie en een van die redes is, daar is te veel korrupsie. Dankie.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Deputy Speaker, the NFP welcomes the report tabled here today. Indeed, the NFP party will



support the BRRR report tabled here today. Once again, Deputy Speaker, we find that this department is experiencing serious challenges particularly with fraud, corruption and maladministration. It continues unabated and we could see in terms of the consequence management that very little or nothing has been done about it.



But I think very importantly, I want to draw the attention of this House to the fact that the President has made an announcement in terms of the Human Settlements Development Grant or Development Bank.



I think the purpose of that was that the government does not want to have the responsibility of providing houses, but created a Development Bank so that they can provide service sites to as many people as possible in South Africa.



I know the Minister in the Presidency is here. I think, Minister, you should have seen that that is accelerating the process of providing service sites to people with the bank which has been created to make investment at a very



low interest rate so that we can deliver a lot of more housing units to our people.



Remember, it is your department that has actually said to us earlier on that even the people in the rural areas do not want RDP houses. They want to live with dignity. They want to live decently. They are willing to pay as long as the amounts they are charge are affordable.



So, I think the government can take that responsibility of building houses for these people. But provide them with the service sites. There is a plenty of land in South Africa, particularly the land that is going to be taken back to the people.



But if you look to the challenges that this department is facing, we welcome the recommendations that have been made by the department. But again, we want to say unless there is implementation and consequence management for those that have repeatedly failed, and if you don’t name and shame them here, make sure that you get rid of them and bring in other people who are looking for jobs as



there is high unemployment in the country. The NFP supports the BRRR report tabled here.



Ms T L MARAWU: Deputy Speaker, The ATM supports the report. But what we are saying as ATM that there are critical targets that are supposed to be met, which are very critical to change the lives of the previously disadvantaged individuals.



The title deeds are a must, it is not acceptable that out of 448 022 only 180 000 title deeds that have been met.

Same as affordable rental housing, whose targets was


27 000 but only 13 850 achieved.



The financing subsidy programme: out of projected target of 70 000 donated in the Medium Term Strategic Framework, MTSF, only 9 762 achieved.



And again on the performance of land acquisition and release: the target on performance for land acquisition and release was 19 962,2 hectares but only

2 247,7 hectares that has been achieved.



What we are saying, we are happy with the turnaround strategy that the department has, but the sooner the better that the Minister comes closer to that so that she’s able to monitor all the above challenges.



Around sanitation we are saying that a special focus on rural and informal sanitation must be paid by the Minister. It is unacceptable that at this point in time the rural people are still suffering the health hazard sanitation.



On water we are saying the Minister must look at these many water boards and the role of district municipalities as the water authority; what is the best suitable approach for her to perform? Thank you very much, ATM supports the report.





Rre M A TSEKI: Dumelang bagaetsho. Dumelang bagaetsho. [Tsenoganong.]






Deputy Speaker, the ANC rises in support of the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report of the Portfolio Committee on Human Settlement, Water and Sanitation.



The provision of sustainable human settlement and ensuring an inclusive society in a country with a history of exclusive policies cannot be taken in a peace meal, which is the ANC-led government has indeed heeded the call of breaking new grounds through doing away with historical spatial patterns and creating comprehensive integrated human settlement.



The sustainability of building communities and developing comfort for the masses of our people to benefit on the asset and for them to look after those assets.



We welcome the progress made in consolidating the financing entities into one entity. The human settlement development bank, as this is entering unchartered waters where the government of the people will be able to participate and shape the financial institution to serve the interest of the people.



We will closely monitor the department in particular to emphasise and insisting on the department to provide quarterly reports.



I think what the IFP and NFP have said here it’s actually


... we agree with you and make sure that we increase the reporting and strengthen the report from the government.



In relation to corruption that is alleged, there are courts of laws that are dealing with these matters and these allegations that are said here are unfounded.



The DA must be looking at their delinquent Helen Zille that is actually running their political party into the ground currently and not to engage on issues that are not affecting them. Thank you, Deputy Speaker. [Applause.]



Report accordingly adopted.












There was no debate.








Declarations of vote:


Mr T W MHLONGO: Deputy Speaker, things are bad in the department. The department cannot properly keep recording; monthly and daily recording is lacking. We question the management style of the senior leadership in the department; they cannot even manage projects, especially the Department of Arts and Culture. There are poor internal controls within the department, for example, we have dodgy projects ezifana ne [like] Msanzi Golden, missing R100 millions within the department; Living Legend project and many other projects which they cannot manage.






Dintho di mpefetse ka hara mokgatlo ona.





Out of 25 entities only nine received unqualified audit report, 12 entities received unqualified audit report with findings, four entities received qualified audit report with findings and one entity received disclaimer with findings.



This tells us more that financial mismanagement without consequences is a norm within the department.



We challenge the Minister of Sports right now to make sure that all recommendations of the Auditor-General, AG, are implemented. For example, fruitless and wasteful expenditure went up; it was R11 million, it’s now

R35 million. It’s shocking.



There are no investigations in the report but luckily, well done to the department, irregular expenditure went down from R135 million to R85,5 million; it is not bad Minister.



But one thing that I want to highlight, especially at Boxing SA, this status of unqualified audit report has been there since 2016 to date; these findings don’t do anything Minister and I would like to challenge you because they don’t follow processes, compliance with management [Time expired.] Thank you. [Applause.]



Mr B S MADLINGOZI: Deputy Speaker, we will not stop talking about our history and how that history gets manifested today in thought and practice.



To truly free ourselves from the grip of neo-colonialism we need to focus on strengthening afro-centric arts and cultural institutions in the country. We need to stop celebrating and honouring things that cause us so much pain. We need to remove apartheid statues, particularly here in Parliament, and take them to a dedicated apartheid museum as a reminder to future generations under the theme of “Never again”. We need to recognise the pain that Die Stem caused to the majority of our people and the symbolism it still has to arc racism; and that having Die Stem still as part of our National Anthem



is offensive to the memories of all those killed by the racist government. Die Stem must fall.



Leaped to these factors it is needed ... the strength of youth as our languages as African people, there is no reason why today, 25 years after attainment of freedom, it is still English and Dutch that are dominant languages even in government communication.



We have been crying about lack of transformation in sports for the past two decades and you have done nothing to entrench sports development in rural areas and townships. The likes of Makazole Mapimpi come from the areas with deep culture of playing rugby. There are thousands more Mapimpi in the Eastern Cape whose skills need to be nurtured but the system excludes them.



The Department of Sports, Arts and Culture is a dismal failure in this regard. There is no vision, no plan, no ability to develop our sports and arts and culture.



We reject these. [Applause.]



Inkosi B N LUTHULI: Deputy Speaker, arts and culture are important, not only in nation building and social cohesion but also important in growing the economy. The Mzansi Golden Economy Strategy will be the key to realise the above objectives, but there are challenges that must be overcome by the department for these to be successful.



Infrastructure preservation, especially in rural areas is important. Additional library services, public access to online library services will also be important as we are trying to ensure that our languages and cultures are kept.



Discipline through good leadership is important to get rid of fruitless and wasteful expenditure in the department, and not spend money that is not budgeted for. These are things that must be corrected.



The use of art and culture in communicating the important values of our society in forms of various art help to send the message of no violence in a good way as we are fighting gender-based violence. [Time expired.] The IFP supports.





Me H JORDAAN: Agb Adjunkspeaker, dit was ’n goeie jaar vir Suid-Afrikaanse sport. Die Bokke het die Wêreldbeker verower, die Protea-netbalspan is die Afrika-netbal kampioene en Ntando Mahlangu en Anrune Weyers het beide goue medaljes in die Para-atletiek Wêreldkampioenskappe in Dubai die afgelope week verower, om maar ’n paar voorbeelde te noem.



Die departement kan met reg trots wees op hierdie atlete wat Suid-Afrika se naam in die internasionale arena hoog hou te midde van verskeie uitdagings tuis.





The importance of the department of Sports, Arts and Culture is generally underestimated. We have seen these past few weeks what sport can do toward promoting social cohesion, and it is the responsibility of the department to build on this foundation.



It is also the very important mandate of the department to build on and promote our diverse cultural and linguistic heritage on an equal basis. The department is



responsible for the promotion and provision of all official languages and the provision and maintenance of the declared cultural institutions.



Though the department has reported on achieving more than 90% of its target for sports, arts and culture it is not really seen in practice. Most local sports facilities are in a state of complete decay. The same goes for most heritage and other cultural terrains.



One of the goals of the department is to enable mechanisms to support sport and recreation yet funds are merely transferred to provinces and municipalities with this tag, but the spending outcomes therefore, is not monitored by the department.





Dit is kommerwekkend dat die komitee aanbevelings van die vorige finansiële jaar, met betrekking tot kuns en kultuur, feitlik herhaal is vir die pas afgelope boekjaar. Dit wil voorkom dat die departement hom nie aan die oorsig en aanbevelings van hierdie komitee steur nie.





Consequence management remains a problem in this department as it seems to be throughout all departments and the ANC-led government itself.



Funds are wasted or stolen and those responsible are not being held accountable.





Die departement moet sy huis in orde kry. Beter monitering van oorgeplaasde fondse en subsidies moet geskied. Provinsiale departemente en munisipaliteite wat hierdie fondse wanaanwend en verkwis moet verantwoordelik gehou word. Die departement moet sy mandaat ernstig opneem anders sal niemand dit doen nie. Ek dank u.



Mr W M THRING: Hon Deputy Speaker, the ACDP wishes to take this opportunity once again to congratulate our amaBhokobhoko on their magnificent win over England at the recent Rugby World Cup. Additionally, we wish to congratulate our South African net ball team who were crowned the African Netball Champions after defeating Zambia 72-53, winning their sixth consecutive game in the



tournament to claim the title. We also congratulate Bafana Bafana for defeating Sudan in their bid to qualify for their 2021 Africa Cup of Nations.



To quote former President Mandela:



Sport has the power to change the world. It has the power to inspire. The power to unite people in way that little else does. It speaks to youth in a language that they understand. Sport can create hope where there was once despair.



Indeed these are wise and discerning words spoken by our former President of South Africa.



It must be said, Deputy Speaker, the external reach or success of any group or team, is a function of its internal strength. This is where some of the entities of the Department of Sports, Arts and culture are failing the potential sport stars of South Africa as they show the internal weakness, particularly on the financial mismanagement front.



The Committee on Sports, Arts and Culture of particularly concerned with the performance of Boxing SA where there was irregular expenditure of some R6,5 million. On the performance of the Department of Sports, Arts and Culture, despite having received a clean audit, concerns were expressed on the fruitless and wasteful expenditure of some R4 million.



It is the view of the ACDP that those on the department who abuse the resourced entrusted to them diminish the power of our sports men and women to change the world. It reduces their power to inspire, to unite and to create hope. It is these who need to be given the red card. I thank you.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Deputy Speaker, the NFP welcomes the report of the department tabled here today. Yes, indeed we must not forget that. I think President Zuma must be quite happy because Bafana Bafana at least got a goal the other day and actually won. So I think weneed to compliment them.



I think we also need to ask ourselves what is the real problem that we are facing in terms of development in sports in the country particularly. I think the problem starts at grass roots level, hon Minister. There is very little or nothing happening at school level. At one stage we use to have interschool, interclub, inter-zone, interprovincial and that is how we used to develop our sports men and women. Currently, very little or nothing is happening particularly if you take the rural areas, unless of course you are privilege and you go to one of those schools. So, I think that is one of the things that we need to be cognizant of.



Yes, indeed, this is a small department and what is not acceptable is their poor performance in terms of the audit report, fruitless and wasteful expenditure and I think the recommendations as tabled there would be good enough if implemented to deal with those problems.



But the other thing that we want to draw your attention to, Minister is that not enough attention is being given to women’s sports in South Africa, particularly funding sports for women in South Africa.



A lot of resources appear to go to rugby and football played by men but when it comes to women we have another problem.



The other thing that I want to talk about which I have mentioned before is that we are still waiting for you to remove the statue and replace it with Winnie Mandela, our icon who has also served us very well.



We must also pay attention to the indigenous languages of the Khoi and San which must be recognised, and not forget princess Krotoa of the Khoi and San, she also needs to be given some recognition. The NFP supports the report tabled here. Thank you.



Mr L M NTSHAYISA: Deputy Speaker, the committee has noted a number of challenges engulfing this department. The delay of the Winnie Mandela house in Braamfontein and the Sara Baartmaan project as noted in the committee’s report is of great concern to all of us.



If the department cannot see through the completion of these two small projects, there is little hope that these



targets of promoting historical and cultural heritage will ever be achieved.



Ho Deputy Speaker, the committee has observed that there were no real sources of economic returns on events that were organised because they are mostly concentrating on bringing in international artists.



On the same token, we are appalled by the department’s failure to promote all sporting codes and investments in rural township recreational facilities.



As we said in our previous contribution, the Ministry has its work cut out for it to use heritage resources to generate economic growth; it has to work with botanical gardens, the national heritage resources agency and wild parks to preserve our cultural heritage.



Coming to sport, Deputy Speaker, we have two main entities that have been considered, that is Boxing South Africa and South African Institute for Drug-Free Sport, SAIDS.



The social cohesion and transformation are figured in the National Development Plan. This encourages sports and physical education participation. These two are an integral part of the holistic development of human being and a leaner in particular. That is why the schools are encouraged to have school sport because schools are where the areas of talent are identified.



Again, Deputy Speaker, sport always helps in fighting obesity which affects most of us as man ... [Time expired.] We support.



Ms D R DIREKO: Deputy Speaker, the ANC rises in support of this BRRR. Allow us as the ANC to first congratulate Luyolo Yiba for being crowned this season’s winner of Idols SA. We wish him well in his music career.



One of the great lessons I learned personally with the 2019 Rugby World Cup victory is that the weight of chasing success can be replaced with a sudden feeling of lightness when we recognise the only rules and limits are those we set for ourselves.



We all have our proud moments in our lives and the individual emotional investment towards the Springboks’ victory, but the most of the important thing is that this moment belongs to the home of the World Cup Rugby champions which is us, South Africans.



The biggest task ahead is to transform and democratise sport and recreation in accordance with the values of human dignity so that we stay united in victory or defeat of any championship. This we will achieve through section

43 and 55 of the Constitution.



We also welcome the consistent financial performance of the Department of Sport and Recreation for the clean audit opinion achieved over the past three years. Our primary focus shifts immediately towards the entities of the department and particularly on Boxing South Africa, for the obvious reasons.



It is absolutely deplorable and totally disheartening that an entity like Boxing SA, at the door steps of our communities, has been rendered into this state of total disservice and hopelessness to our people.



It is really regrettable that not much has improved with Boxing SA for the past three years and this is a serious cause for concern to move closer to this entity and intervene.



We look forward to monitoring the six strategic goals under outcome 14 which we must achieve without fail in 2020.



We also look forward in hosting the 2023 Netball World Cup here in Cape Town, South Africa. The ANC supports this report. I thank you. [Applause.]



Motion agreed to.



Report on Department of Arts and Culture accordingly adopted. (Democratic Alliance dissenting).



Report on Department of Sports and Recreation accordingly adopted.










sicela ukuba yamkelwe le ngxelo yale komiti. Enkosi.



Declarations of vote:


Ms A M M WEBER: Deputy Speaker, this report reads like charge sheet. It records breaches of supply chain and breaches of the law. There was no leadership. The Risk and Audit Committees failed to do their jobs in many cases. There were failures to implement Auditor-General’s recommendations. The Department of Environment, Forestry and Fisheries was a mess, as was the National Biological Institute and the SA Weather Service.



It is notable that the SA Weather Service brought a disciplinary action against its own CEO and yet refused to tell the portfolio committee what the charges were. That is not a sign of an organisation that is confident



in what it is doing. Worst of them all is the Marine Living Resource Fund which got an audit disclaimer.



Six times the stores of confiscated abalone have been robbed - almost definitely inside jobs. Fisheries in general cause the most concern and the DA urges that the new DEFF gets full control of it as soon as possible.



We are encouraged by the new Minister’s work so far, but she cannot take her foot off the accelerator. This report details some good follow up in co-operation with the committee. We will support this report in spite of the story that it does not tell. That story is how the ANC carries political responsibility for all that has happened.



We hope to see a new chapter in the governance of this department, but South Africans should always remember that this chaos and criminality happened on the ANC’s watch. I thank you. [Applause.]



Mr M N PAULSEN: Deputy Speaker, our first concern is with the unification of very large and very diverse portfolios



under one Ministry. This risks ignoring others in favour of some. This report doesn’t speak to the lack of transformation in the environment, fisheries and forestry industry.



For many years now there has been dissatisfaction with the manner in which fishing quotas are allocated, which marginalizes small scale fishers. This has had a dire impact on their livelihood and has had an adverse affected on fishing communities across South Africa.

Marine resources are public resources, but the exploitation of these resources does not benefit the public. It benefits a few.



Over 25 years this government failed to intensify the development of black participants in the fishing industry in the following areas: The West Coast, in the Western Cape, the North Coast of KwaZulu-Natal - particularly the area around Kosi Bay; Margate on the South Coast; and Jeffreys Bay and Bluewater Bay in the Eastern Cape.



If this government was serious about Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment, BBBEE - which it isn’t - it would



have ensured the local beneficiation of marine resources by constructing processing plants in all the coastal provinces and promoting the creation of jobs in fishing communities. But, what we have witnessed under an ANC-led government is coastal towns known for their fishing activity being reduced to ghost towns.



Then also in the forestry industry, if the ANC government was serious about allowing black people to participate in the opportunities in forestry it would recapitalise and reposition the SA Forestry Company, Safcol - a state company - as the prime forestry company in South Africa, leading the transformation objectives of the state in this sector.



Instead state forests are currently leased out to private companies. [Time expired.] Deputy Speaker, just as how you started now, there are so many problems in this department then I only get two minutes. Doesn’t justify, but be that as it may, Deputy Speaker, the EFF cannot support a report that doesn’t ... [Interjections.]



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I am switching off your microphone! Hon member, go and sit down. Your time has expired. Look at it there; don’t look at me. Ja it’s gone already! [Laughter.] Hon Singh, go ahead. No, leave the podium, please. Just time yourself better, hon Paulsen.

Okay, hon Singh!



Mr N SINGH: Deputy Speaker, the IFP supports the recommendations contained in the report I think there are far reaching recommendations and the only trust we have that the Minister and the department will ensure that all these recommendations are followed through to their logical conclusion.



The concern that we have is the fact that the Auditor- General has expressed quite a few areas that need correction moving into the future. Often there is no consequence management. Minister, we hope that there will be consequence management for those officials who may have through their action or inaction flouted supply chain management rules. We trust and we know that you will do.



The department is responsible for oversight over four entities. We would like to see all these entities receive clean audits. The disclaimer that my colleague referred to with regards to the Marine Living Resources Fund, MLRF, is the area of great concern and this is a fund which is supposed to assist communities out there. If communities are not benefitting from government grants and assistance, then we have got to think again about the existence of funds.



One concern we also picked up is the timeous allocation of government grants to entities. We heard even today that some of these entities are not functioning optimally because the grants are not being given to them timeously.



Also, with regards to Fisheries, we do trust that the declaration of marine protected areas, MPAs, are not used as a smoke screen by certain communities who have been privileged in the past to prevent fishermen and women from fishing in the MPA areas – and you know which area I am referring to.



Lastly, we trust that the Minister in the Presidency here, and you Minister, will address the issue of protest on the way to Hazyview, to Kruger National Park. The SA National Parks, SANParks, are doing excellent work, but we are told that the German government wants to issue a note verbale that people should not use that particular entrance to the park and that this will have a negative impact on tourism figures. [Time expired.] Thank you very much. We support the report.



Dr W J BOSHOFF: Hon Deputy Speaker, the hon Minister, there is an outdated concept that environmental affairs is meant for some cute things which are actually useless, and therefore, there should be a zone set apart where we can still go and look what this and that and other things which we don’t actually have a use for look like.





Dit is natuurlik glad nie hoe dit werklik is nie. As ’n mens na die waarheid kyk, dan is lug, water en vrugbare grond die dienste wat deur die instansies wat onder die beskerming van Omgewingsake staan, gelewer word.



Om ’n wêreld in te dink sonder vlei-landskappe, wat die water skoon maak wat ons so ruimskoots vuil maak, en sonder plekke waar lug gesuiwer word, is die doodgewone alledaagse lewe eintlik ondenkbaar, soos wat ons in heelwat Asiatiese stede sien waar die groei in bevolking net eenvoudig nie geëwenaar is deur die beskerming van die natuur se hulpbronne en die diensts wat dit aan die mensdom lewer nie.



Daarom is dit belangrik dat die vier entiteite — die SA Nasionale Parke, SANParke, die iSimangaliso Wetland Park, SA Weather Service [SA Weerdiens] en die SA Nasionale Biodiversiteit-instituut, Sanbi, in staat gestel word om hul werk verder te doen. Daarom is dit jammer dat van die bevindings wat die Ouditeur-generaal gemaak het eintlik oor doodgewone, eenvoudige oudit gaan. Dit is nie ingewikkelde sake nie. Dit is rekordhouding wat nie na behore gedoen is nie.



U departement het die verantwoordelikheid om volhoubaarheid te bevorder, wat gaan oor die balans tussen die omgewing, mense onderling en die natuur, en dan die verhouding tussen die toekoms en die hede. In die



lig hiervan, doen die departement nogal goeie werk en is een van die ligpunte in die Suid-Afrikaanse regering. Die VF Plus ondersteun hierdie verslag.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Deputy Speaker, let me start of welcoming the appointment of the Minister and your intervention already in the short space of time, particularly in the department in the issues of fisheries.



Let me also start off by saying in this instance that it is a norm in terms of violation of supply chain management in all the relevant departments that we are faced with. I think if the issue of irregular expenditure is problematic, maybe we need to remove it from the Public Finance Management Act. Just because it exists as irregular expenditure, people tend to want to abuse it because they can do out there and regularise it after that.



So, we welcome the interventions and recommendations that are there. However, Minister, I previously particularly brought the issue of pollution to the attention of this



House on many ocassions, the high levels of cancer and lung infections in the Merewent, Jacobs, Wentworth, Bluff, Lamontville area. There was a study done by the university; nothing is being done about it and our people that are living in those areas now have a serious problem in terms of health. So that’s the one problem.



The other thing is that it has been brought to my attention that there is a monopoly over big fishing industries, particularly in the Western Cape. What they tend to do is that they do not allow the fish. They block the entire fish from coming closer to the shore so that the small scale fisheries can get access to it.



So, what they do is net those fish much deeper in the sea and sell it to industry. That is why if you go on the streets today, you will find very little fresh fish available on the streets. These are all frozen fish because these industries that net this fish are selling them to big industries and its being sold at once. So, I think it’s a matter that needs a matter that needs our intervention, particularly, to deal with that.



The issue of the small scale fisheries, particularly in Hout Bay – and I know there has been an intervention recently- also needs attention because they are having serious problems in terms of the allocation and other things. [Time expired.] The NFP supports the report.

Thank you very much.



Mr X NQOLA: Hon Deputy Speaker, consistent with its mandate, the Portfolio Committee in Environment, Forestry and Fisheries had scrutinised the annual reports of the department for the year under review, as well as the performance of its entities. This includes those which were removed from the Department of Agriculture to constitute the new department of Environment, Forestry and Fisheries in the sixth administration.



In this regard, we invite fellow countrymen and fellow environmentalists, including our private sector partners to continue playing their role in ensuring sustainability of our environmental assets despite the ever-growing myriad of challenges in this sector.



We are alive to the fact that environmental problems, such as climate change, air pollution, waste disposal, water pollution and environmental crimes affect all of us. We are also alive to the fact that these are global trends and we are not alone. Although we are unique in certain respects, we are pleased with the performance of environmental department, in its entirety, including Fisheries and Forestry, particularly on meeting the predetermined objectives



We are however deeply concerned about the audit outcomes as per the Auditor-General and have made pertinent recommendations with clear timeframes to the executive authority to overturn those challenges soonest. It is against this background that we would like to invite this House to support the Portfolio Committee on Environment, Forestry and Fisheries, the budgetary review and recommendation report and its entities for 2018-19 financial year. Re a leboga [Thank you.] [Applause.]



Question put: That the report be adopted.



Mr M N PAULSEN: Deputy Speaker, note the objection of the EFF. It is an insult that this department’s acronym is EFF!



The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, no! Stop the polemics. We hear your objection. Thank you very much.



Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).



Report accordingly adopted.











That the Report be adopted.



Declarations of vote: Afrikaans:



Mnr W HORN: Adjunk Speaker, die Begrotingsevaluerings en Hersieningsverslag van Department van Korrektiewe Dienste vertel ’n jammerlike verhaal van ’n departement wat op die rand van ’n ineenstorting is. Nie net is die oudituitkoms van hierdie department aan die negatiewe kant vir nou nie, maar daar is geen interne ouditkomitee nie, en wat meer is, die Ouditeur-Generaal in sy verslag het baie uitdruklik uitgewys dat die rekenpligtige beampte geen moeite gedoen het om te reageer om hulle aanbevelings nie.



Om sake te vererger, is daar ter aansien van die vrugtelose en vermorsende uitgawes en die ongeoorloofde uitgawes van die laaste twee finansiële jare slegs drie gevalle van die vermorsende uitgawes ondersoek. Die res is toegesmeer.





This failure is of course to be attribute to Mr Arthur Fraser, the national Commissioner of the Department of Correctional Services, who took the reigns at the beginning of the financial year in question.



In addition to that, there is an absolute failure to develop the integrated inmate management system. This is a contract awarded against the advice of the chief procurement office to integrate it where no targets have been made and will probably never be rolled out.

Overcrowding, gang culture, high vacancy rate and other problems continue to effectively prevent rehabilitation on the part of the Department of Correctional Services.



Intervention by the new Minister is very necessary. The first intervention should ask the President when would the investigation into Mr Fraser’s shenanigans at the State Security agency be finalised so that he could be removed from Public Service. I thank you.



Mr K CEZA: Deputy Speaker, South African prisons have a population of more than 160 000 inmates. From this number, 16 000 are serving life sentences. There are only

119 000 bed spaces available in our prisons at the moment, meaning that correctional services are overcrowded by over 40 000 prisoners. Of these inmates,

43 000 of them remain detainees who could be released on bail if we had a proper functioning lower courts. It



costs the department over R123 000 per annum to keep individual inmate in jail. Most of these inmates live in overcrowded conditions driving most of them to various forms of illnesses most notably mental illnesses. The report of the Judicial Inspectorate for Correctional Services last year indicated that 1 200 inmates had been diagnosed with some form of mental illnesses during inspections and that most of these inmates receive no special care.



We can conclude that there is nothing correctional about correctional services. They are breeding grounds for hardened criminals and they are haven for gang leaders and drug lords who plan and execute notorious crimes from within prison.



The Department of Correctional Services is in crisis. It fails in its constitutional responsibility to be corrective. The flip side of that is that thousands of young black people most of whom are remanded for petty crimes, will have their lives changed permanently inside a very corrupt system of correctional service. The EFF rejects this report.



Prof C T MSIMANG: Hon Deputy Speaker, the IFP supports this report, but it is very much concerned about the failure of the Correctional Services to achieve clean or unqualified audits. In fact, since 2014 it has only received one unqualified audit over the financial reporting period. Since 2016, this department has failed year-on-year to receive an unqualified audit. With the lack of tracking from within this department does not have full control of how it appropriates its funds. Not knowing this leaves this department open to fraud and corruption. In overall, this department must focus on the Auditor-General’s, A-G, report as priority and address the issues of its reporting, recordkeeping, procurement and spending. This department has achieved far below what is satisfactory. I thank you.





Dr W J BOSHOFF: Agb Huisvoorsitter, die Departement van Korrektiewe Dienste het ’n belangrike taak om te vervul in die rehabilitasie van veroordeelde mense in ons samelewing. Die vakaturekoers van kritiese poste in die departement maak dit egter bykans onmoontlik om interne kontrole effektief uit te voer.



Die verhouding tussen begroting en uitgawes bly ’n probleem en lei telkens tot ongunstige ouditverslae.



Verder is die onregmatige besteding van R3 miljard ’n groot bron van kommer vir die VF Plus.



Die Departement van Korrektiewe Dienste ondervind ’n groot dissiplinêre probleem, met 1 271 aangemelde gevalle van afwesigheid in amptenare, en ’n verdere 329 amptenare wat hulself skuldig gemaak het aan sekuriteitsoortredings.



Gevangenisse in Suid-Afrika is verder oorbevolk. Die VF Plus kan dus nie die jaarverslag steun nie.



Mr S N SWART: House Chair, the ACDP notes the concerns that are set out in the report. Despite achieving 76% of its targets, the committee believes that the department can do considerable better and we agree with that sentiment.



We also share our concern about the high levels of vacancies as it only not results in the safety of warders



being compromised, but at senior management level as pointed out by the Auditor-General and highlighted in the report. The internal controls have been compromised where vacancies exist in the supply chain and financial management environment which has in the past resulted in corrupt practices taking place. This also has resulted in the poor audit outcome reflected on by the previous speakers which deteriorates from year-on-year.



The management of awaiting trial prisoners also contribute significantly to the severe overcrowding in the facilities. Pollsmoor Prison, for example, is 200% overcrowding. Although much has been done to alleviate overcrowding the ACDP believes that more can be done by utilising section 63(a) and section 62(f) of the Criminal Procedure Act. These provisions allow magistrates to review bail set as well as place awaiting prisoners under correctional supervision. It is disgraceful that it often cost more to keep a prisoner awaiting trial per day than the bail that has been set. This needs to be addressed.



The ACDP would also like to see an increase in the number of restorative justice programmes attended by victims,



parolees and probationers. Rehabilitation budgets cannot be underfunded as it will have a direct impact on the reintegration of offenders into society. The 16:14:42 measure of this department’s success is whether it succeeds in preventing reoffending.



Lastly, the ACDP shares concerns that the inspecting judge is depended on the department for its funding. It must be an independent inspectorate to operate effectively. I thank you.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: House Chair, the NFP welcomes the report tabled here today. Once again, I think this department has also fallen in foul because of the fact that it does not have its house in order, particularly in terms of its administration and the violation of the Public Finance Management Act. I think the the department needs to pay more attention to recommendations that are tabled here. The committee has to make sure that the department complies with the Public Finance Management Act.



There other problems which we find with the correctional services. Firstly, it is overcrowding. When they are overcrowded the department releases a lot of these people who are repeating offenders. A large percent of people who are released as parolees come out and commit offences again. Often crimes that have been committed a large percent of them were committed by repeating offenders.

That’s the first thing and the problem that we have.



There is a serious problem in the correctional services in terms of health. Tuberculosis, HIV and others are increasing in prisons. Gangsterism is continuing. It seems to be a serious problem. I think this is one of the issues that we need to deal with.



Again, when offenders are released there must be a process to reintegrate them into society, and we don’t have that. When many of them come out obviously they cannot find jobs because the history will tell you that they have been in prison and nobody is going to employ them. So, how do you reintegrate them into society? I believe that the department should ensure that - and I’ll give you a good example - thousands of loaves of bread



are required by all the different correctional facilities. Why don’t we create an industry and create jobs and get these people trained so that we can be able to reintegrate them. [Time expired.] The NFP supports the report.



Mr Q R DYANTYI: Chairperson, the ANC rises to support the report on Correctional Services. One of the inheritances received by the ANC-led government from the colonial and apartheid era is prisons. It has been the mission of the ANC to convert prisons into correctional services as espoused in the Freedom Charter that imprisonment should be only for serious crimes and should aim at re-education and not vengeance. The ANC’s position is to rehabilitate offenders, equip them with necessary skills, reintegrate them back into society as law-abiding citizens and have them contribute to the economy.



The Department of Correctional Services plays a critical role in the justice value. It is concerning for the ANC that it received the qualified audit in 2018-19. Some of the causes of the negative audit outcomes include lack of capacity within the supply chain management, high



dependence on manual processes to generate information and reports resulting in increase in error rates, lack of understanding of financial report standards by nonfinancial managers.



We note the key challenges reported which include overcrowding, staff shortages and aging infrastructure. These were identified as significant contributing factors to security incidence at correctional services. The irregular expenditure in excess of R3 billion is concerning to the ANC. We have raised such with the department where they were able to say to us that they have a recovery plan that they are going to follow for the department. On that note we also invite other parties who came here to be part of the committee so that they don’t just come and raise issues here that you were not able to relate because they were not raised. Be part of the committee, especially the NFP and the EFF. [Time expired.] The ANC supports the vote.



Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).



Report accordingly adopted.








report be adopted.



Declarations of vote:


Adv G BREYTENBACH: House Chair, hon members, the adventure of the Sixth Parliament has seen the arrival of a new Minister who has been energetic and has at least partially put his money where his mouth is with regard to the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA. But now we need to see this translate into serious prosecutions.



There are many complex cases that must surely be in the investigation phase and we all understand that this will take time. There is also a significant number of hanging fruit that should be enrolled and prosecuted now urgently. The NPA must demonstrate to all South Africans



that lawlessness is visited with serious consequences and that the game is certainly not worth the candle.



Also, where the problems at state attorneys offices and continues complaints about the services of the Master of the High Court however present. We are constantly assured that new models are in the pipeline but that is where it stops. It’s simply not good enough.



The Minister should also revisit the decision to appeal the judgement on the implementation of the Occupation Specific Dispensation, OSD for Deputy Director of Public Prosecutions, DDPPs. By following this route, he and the National Director of Public Prosecutions risk alienating the very prosecutors who are essential in the prosecution of State Capture.



Deputy Directors have been sidelined with regards to salaries for more than 15 years now. Now that the High Court has ordered that this be remedied, the Minister and the National Director of Public Prosecutions, NDPP, have added insult to injury by appealing this decision.



This demoralising effect that this will inevitably have, and the delay that it will have on the prosecutions that all South Africans are desperate to see will be immeasurable. Overall the performance of the justice cluster leaves much to be desired is a lot of work for the Minister to do and we advise him to get on with it. I thank you.



Ms A M SIWISA: House Chair, one of the saddest tragedies to happen since the dawn of our constitutional democracy has been the development of culture of impunity amongst those in political leadership of this country.



This is nowhere manifested more than in the persistent attacks in office of the Public Protector has been subjected to by both the President and his favourite Minister.



The President and his favourite Minister must be made aware that whatever political authority any government may at any period in history that authority is subordinate and subject to the rule of law that no



government may exercise any authority unless that authority is derived from the law.



All law loving South Africans must protect the dignity of the office of the Public Protector; secondly we need to fix the National Prosecuting Authority, it is not clear that the appointment of Shamila Batohi has not resolved the chronic incompetence of the NPA.



Today no one has been prosecuted for the killing of Senzo Meyiwa, no one has been prosecuted of the corruption that has almost destroyed the fibre of society for the past decade and no one from Steinhof has been prosecuted despite mounting evidence of the criminality of the conduct of Markus Jooste.



The administration of justice in this entirety is compromised by this incompetence. Lastly, Minister as a young person yourself, it can not be okay that Khaya Cekeshe is humiliated and abused like this by the justice system. May you please ensure that he gets all the medical attention that he needs while you work on his release. We reject this report.



Prof C T MSIMANG: Hon Chair and hon members, in line with the founding provisions of our Constitution and as the final check and balance against contravention and abuse of the rule of law in south Africa, we require a justice system whose independence is beyond question in impartiality beyond reproach and access to the justice system available to all South Africans.



The National Prosecuting Authority to date not prosecuted a single high level case of state corruption, why is this?



If we look at our Chapter 9 institutions, are they performing as they should be, are they sufficiently capacitated? In 2017 His Royal Highness Prince Buthelezi of Kwa-Phindangene lodged a complaint with the Human Rights Commission on the possible harmful health effects of Genetically Modified Organism, GMO, foods on our population.



There was one meeting convened by the Human Rights Commission, HRC, in 2017 and to date there is nothing. Is



this the kind of work we should expect from our Chapter 9 institutions?



Our justice system requires a rethink and overall. If we are serious about access to justice for all, then we must establish community courts and community advice offices as mechanisms to enhance access to justice. I thank you. The IFP supports this report.



Mr F J MULDER: Chairperson, the FF Plus’ motto reads, Freedom with justice. There can be no freedom without justice.





Dit is van kardinale belang dat die Departement van Justisie en sy onderskeie afdelings: die Nasionale Vervolgingsgesag, die Inligtingsreguleerder, die Regshulpraad, die Spesiale Ondersoekeenheid, die Menseregtekommissie en die Openbare Beskermer, effektief funksioneer.



In praktyk is dit ongelukkig nie die geval nie. Die afdelings word gekenmerk deur onderbefondsing, onder-



kapasiteit, oneffektiewe bestuur en oneffektiewe ondersoekwerk.





The Special Investigating Unit, SIU, only achieved 17 of


29 or 59% of its targets for 2018/19. Administration achieved 6 of 12 or 50% of planned targets and market data analytics prevention achieved early 2 of 6 or 33% of the planned targets.



Our particular concern is vacancy rate at top and senior management level which is at 88% and 37% respectively.

The office of the Public Protector focuses on high profile cases while a large number of serious complaints are not even responded to. Hon Minister Lamola has a huge challenge and responsible head.



The offer of Minister Lamola to the convicted fees must fall student that the department would assist with obtaining and having his record expunged strengthen the perception that a culture of no consequence exist in the judiciary.





Ons hofgeboue is nie meer veilig nie. Talle hofgeboue is geleë in misdaadgeteisterde      gebiede of word nie onderhou nie. Die VF Plus kan vir hierdie jaar 2018-19 die verslag nie steun nie.



Mr S N SWART: House Chair, it is clear to us in the ACDP that the department, the NPA, Legal Aid South Africa, SIU, Human Rights Commission and the Public Protector, PP are suffering severe financial challenges which is impacting significantly on service delivery.



Take for example the NPA, at the end of the financial year it had a vacancy rate of 21% with prosecutors alone at 18%. The asset forfeit unit has a staggering vacancy rate of 32% for investigators. It is no wonder then that it is taking so long to successfully prepare complex cases for trial from corruption and State Capture.



However, I agree there is some low hanging fruit and we should see more progress in the prosecution of the low hanging fruit. But we do also welcome the establishment of the special tribunal and trust that matters arising



from the SA investigations will be speedily disposed of. We understand that cases to the value R14,7 billion will be serving before this tribunal.



Now, obviously the constraint financial environment regrettably impacts on the fight against crime and this cannot be compromised. We know the gender based violence that has caused an outrage in society and so these institutions must be given additional funding.



The ACDP also shares the committee’s concerns that the department has received a qualified audit outcome for another consecutive year and we also support the recommendations that the department submit details of plans to address the audit findings as a matter of urgency. The sharp increase in irregular expenditure now at R1,4 billion is matter of concern.



Lastly we support the additional funding to the NPA and the Legal Aid South Africa to fill critical vacancies as well as the proposed budget reductions should not be applied to the Human Rights Commission and the Public



Protector. The ACDP will support this budget vote. I thank you.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon House Chair, the NFP welcomes the Budgetary Review and Recommendation, BRR Report tabled here today and the NFP will support the report.



Allow me to start off by thanking the Deputy Minister of Justice for your intervention on the matter at the Durban High Court the other day. That court order was indeed provided the next day immediately after your intervention. Thank you very much for that.



Now, I think one of the things we must admit while there are serious challenges in terms of the audit report, one thing that all departments don’t fail to do is spend their money. But, in terms of value for money that’s where we tend to have a problem. I think we must also admit that there is a serious problem in terms of capacity, human resource challenge particularly in the department to be able to deal with the enormous number of matters or cases that they actually have to deal with.



I think you have made some recommendations in terms of intervening in these things. However, one of the issues you got is the underfunding and I think we welcome the increase in the budget that has now been under special funding that has been allocated and that’s a good sign.



However, unless you ensure that you employ people with capacity to be able to perform optimally in the department, you are not going to get the results that we are basically looking for. There are challenges in terms of the corruption in the department as well and I think it’s a matter that most departments appear to be tainted with. Some individuals but the majority of them I think are people that are there to perform the duty without fear and favour. So, the NFP will support this and any initiative to put this department to put this department in it but to deal with the back log particularly of the matters that are before you. The NFP supports it. Thank you.



Ms N H MASEKO-JELE: Chairperson, the ANC supports this Budgetary Review and Recommendations Report on Justice and Constitutional Development. From inception, justice



and human rights have been the fundamental principles in the ANC.



The establishment of the institutions supporting democracy we have today are as a result of the ANC concerted effort of transferring power to the people. The Department of Justice and Constitutional Development and other entities and institutions review have received their budget allocations under the justice and constitutional development vote 21. These include the NPA, Legal Aid South Africa, SIU, SA Human Rights Commission, and Public Protector South Africa also received their allocation under by means of a direct transfer.



We note with concern that the department received a qualified audit opinion with findings for a third consecutive year. Both the Public Protector South Africa and the SA Human Rights Commission received an unqualified audit opinion with findings. The Cara fund, Guardian fund, President fund, Legal Aid South Africa, SIU and Third Party fund all achieved clean audit opinions.



We wish to congratulate these entities and institutions. Access to justice incorporates the right to legal presentation. Legal Aid South Africa therefore plays a critical role in the justice system by providing free legal services to the poor and indigent.



The NPA also needs to be adequately resourced in order to continue with the aspirant prosecutor.






There was no debate.



The Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted.



Declarations of Vote:


Adv G BREYTENBACH: Hon House Chair, hon members, the Office of the Chief Justice has again received an acceptable audit outcome but the manner of reporting to



the committee and the other sides of ... [Inaudible.] ... the committee remains minimal. The Chief Justice hosts an annual even where he reports back on performance, largely to the public, and also uses the opportunity to offer advice to other independent institutions on how to run their affairs but there is no meaningful oversight of co- operation by this committee and this has to change.



The situation was created by the unacceptable manner in which the executive has steadfastly refused to settle on the final model of court administration in South Africa. This obfuscation by the executive has led to tension between the Chief Justice and the magistracy.



While 15 High Court judges have just been appointed, which is to be applauded, the vacancies on the benching general are deeply concerning, even more problematic are the many vacancies in the magistracy. This is one of the direct causes of the slow pace in the criminal justice system. There is a lot to be done in this arena and we hope that the Minister will step up now and get it done. I thank you. [Applause.]



Ms R N KOMANE: Chairperson, the office of the Chief Justice is a critical office for the administration of justice in this country. It must therefore be supported to continue doing its job. This includes the need to properly allocate a budget that is sufficient for the kind of work required for that office. If we are serious about the independence of the judiciary, we must begin to ask ourselves some serious questions.



If the judiciary is dependent on Parliament and the Minister of Finance for its budget allocation, what will happen when Parliament and the executive goes rogue as they are beginning to be with the Office of the Public Protector? What happens if they refuse to finance the Office of the Chief Justice sufficiently?



We know the ANC acted funny when the former Public Protector investigated Zuma and now they have developed a particular attitude towards the current Public Protector for investigating the President and his trusted foot soldier, Jamnadas.



Therefore, our submission is that we must be in a position where the Office of the Chief Justice can give its rough budget estimate. The National Treasury must do all possible to make the funds available.



Mr B A RADEBE: On a point of order.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Hon member, would you just take your seat please?



Ms R N KOMANE: Secondly, while we applaud the work done


... [Interjections.]





the podium just take a seat please. Take a seat please. Why are you rising hon member?



Mr B A RADEBE: Chairperson, I am rising on Rule 82. The member referred to a Minister by his first name.





terms of the Rules, we must refer to each other in respectful terms. Please observe that Rule.



Mr M N PAULSEN: Chairperson!





rising, hon member?



Mr M N PAULSEN: Chairperson, just a caution.





point of order?



Mr M N PAULSEN: This is her maiden speech and she didn’t refer to a particular Minister. She said Jamnadas ... [Interjections.] ... but almost on ... [Inaudible.] [Interjections.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Hon member, take your seat. Please take your seat. I am switching off your mic now. Continue, hon member.



Mr R N KOMANE: Our submission is that we must be in a position where the Office of the Chief Justice can give its rough budget estimate and the National Treasury must do all that’s possible to make the funds available.



Secondly, while we applaud the work done by the Office of the Chief Justice, we are not quite pleased with the time it takes to fill some of the vacancies in our courts. The Constitutional Court ... [Inaudible.] ... The presentation ... [Inaudible.] ... is that the Constitutional Court must have the judges ... [Inaudible.] The EFF supports this report. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]



Mr N SINGH: Hon Chairperson, the IFP will support the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, on the Office of the Chief Justice and judicial administration. We however express some concern about the different roles between the judiciary and Parliament and the executive.

When funds are allocated to any department, then we are all obliged to respond to the Public Finance Management Act, PFMA, and we trust that the Office of the Chief Justice will accept that in the spirit that it is intended.



Any discussion about the separation of powers between the judiciary, the executive and Parliament are sorted out as soon as possible because we can’t have these lacuna and



these debates taking place. However, we would like to say that since the advent of this office in 2015, it is great to know that the Office of the Chief Justice has been functioning well. They have received favourable audit reports. We are also pleased to know that new High Court has been established but that’s through the Department of Justice in Mpumalanga.



We must, however, strengthen and capacitate our judiciary, not only through the selection of fit and proper persons for the bench, but also through on going training that is of the highest calibre comparative with international best practice.



To this end, my hon colleague referred to the fact that the Judicial Services Commission on which I am the Commissioner appointed by this Parliament, recently I made the recommendations to the President of the country and I am glad that he accepted those recommendations of appointing 15 new judges, eight of which are female judges. I think it is the first time that we had 50% plus of the appointments as females.



Our concern is security at courts and courts modernisation. We have been speaking about this for a long time. You get dockets that are lost and you find that cases are delayed. And justice delayed is justice denied. We therefore trust that through the Department of Justice, Treasury ... [Inaudible.] ... will have favourable methods. Thank you very much. We support the report. [Time expired.]



Mr S N SWART: House Chair, the ACDP has engaged a number of times with the Chief Justice and its administrator support, the Office of the Chief Justice. We can indeed be grateful for an independent judiciary that holds both Parliament and the executive to account, as well as dispense in civil and criminal justice in the nation.



During our recent interaction with the Chief Justice and judiciary, ... [Inaudible.] ... Constitutional Court, when the Constitutional Court tabled the judiciary’s annual report, I raised the question as to what mechanism should be used to hold the judiciary accountable for its court performance. Whilst the judiciary is and must be independent, Parliament appropriates its funds.



The justice committee in this report also expressed its concern about the manner in which we can gauge how well the justice system is operating, given that much of the information relating to court performance is located within the judiciary. How then should the judiciary account?



In the absence of any legislative guidance, the judiciary has taken an initiative to account directly to the nation as is the case with jurisdictions like Kenya, Singapore and other constitutional democracies. Whilst the ACDP welcomes that intro mechanism, clearly this must be finalised.



We also suggested, as we have done in the past, that there should be engagements with the Chief Justice and heads of courts. These formal engagements will be to engage and discuss matters of mutual concern.



Lastly, we welcome the appointed of the new judges. We are concerned, as is also appointed in this report about the lack of wellness support offered to judicial offices, the stress that they have to operate under and the



presiding over many traumatising cases. We support the wellness programmes and stress management programmes that are presently being implemented under the auspices of the Office of the Chief Justice and the judiciary. The ACDP will support this report. I thank you.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon House Chair, the NFP welcomes the report tabled here today. Let me start off by saying that the Office of the Chief Justice and its formation was to ensure its independence. We welcome the unqualified audit opinion of the department, particularly with no funding for two years in succession.



After the previous years were they had unqualified audit but they have had unqualified with funding so its great improvement. But then it tells you one thing, that the Department of the Chief Justice is leading by example in ensuring that they have their house in order. So I think that we must actually welcome that.



If you look at the issue of the judges’ salaries, with a R1,62 billion allocation, there was only a minimal

R24,8 million that was under spent which I think we could



easily overlook. Now, the other thing that we must take into cognisance is the fact that, like the SAPS and the kind of work that they do and exactly the same thing that justices go through in terms of meeting out sentences and these cases that they are here to. Wellness programmes are very important to deal with that. And unless you deal with that, you would find that a lot of our people are going in some kind of depression, I think, if that is the term I should use.



There has been a concerning terms of the modernisation of the courts but also, I think we need to look at the issue and make sure that the issue of having one system, a single judiciary, which must be accelerated. I know that matter is in progress at the moment but I think we need to accelerate on that.



Over and above that is the issue of oversight where there is no mechanism in place. The NFP supports that and in that, we remember what Chief Justice Mogoeng Mogoeng has always said about the amount of money that when you are doing business ... [Inaudible.] ... The NFP supports that. Thank you. [Time expired.]



Mr X NQOLA: Hon House Chair, the ANC rises in support of the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, on the Office of the Chief Justice. As articulated by our forebears, ... [Inaudible.] ... and freedom can only be guaranteed if judicial power is separated from legislative and executive power.



The ANC has always advocated for separation of powers and indefinite judiciary. The 52nd National Conference resolved that the Chief Justice as head of the judicial authority, should exercise authority and responsibility over the development and the implementation of norms and standards for the exercise of the judiciary functions such as the allocation of judges, cases and court rules within all the court system and the administration of the court, including the allocation of resources, financial management and policy matters relating to the administration of justice.



The Constitution amendment has entrenched the independence of the court and acknowledges the Chief Justice as the head of the judiciary who exercises responsibility over the establishment and monitoring of



norms and standards for the exercise of the judicial functions of all courts.



Budget Vote 22 as a separate vote, is a reflection of the ANC’s commitment to the doctrine of the separation of powers and judiciary-led independent court administration and strengthen judicial governance. Since 2015-16, the Office of the Chief Justice has been receiving unqualified audit outcomes.



In 2017-18, it improved and obtained a clean audit opinion and has since maintained this outcome. This is indeed commendable. In the 2018-19 financial year, the Office of the Chief Justice was allocated R2,14 billion. The ANC supports the report. Thank you. [Time expired.]



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Chair of Chairs and the House, I wish to put on record that I made a mistake and mentioned SCOPA instead of Justice and Correctional Services. Just for the record. Thank you.



Motion agreed to.



Report accordingly adopted.






The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): On members, I wish to remind you that this matter was debated in a mini-plenary, but that the decision thereon can only be taken in a full sitting of the House. This is the same for the other decisions of question the House will decide on today. Are the any objections to the adoption of the report?



There was no debate.



Question put: That the Report be adopted.



Report accordingly adopted.









There was no debate.



Question put: That the Report be adopted.



Report accordingly adopted (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).






There was no debate.



Question put: That the Report be adopted.



Report accordingly adopted (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).






Mr M HLENGWA: Hon House Chairperson, the importance of Eskom as a catalyst for economic and social development for the country cannot be downplayed. The National Development Plan, NDP, states that and I quote:



To eliminate poverty and reduce inequality, by 2030, the economy must grow faster and in ways that will benefit all of South Africa.



The importance of state-owned entities, SOEs and the services they provide is even more important in this juncture as the country has 10 years to achieve and meet its targets of eliminating poverty and reducing inequality by 50% in 2030.



The SOE such as Eskom play an integral role in supporting the vision of the government by operating in a way that enhances growth of the country.



The annual reports of Eskom showed that the entity’s financial resources have not been optimally used by those entrusted with ensuring that resources are used economically, efficiently and effectively for the benefit of all of South Africa.



The two newly build Power Stations Medupi and Kusile have suffered long delays, cost-escalations and marred by allegations of corruption and mismanagement.



The Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa, as watchdogs of the public purse had to undertake an oversight visit to look into the allegations and to establish the reasons for the delays and the rolling blackouts.



Therefore the objective of the committee was to observe firsthand and obtain information on the current state of the two projects and to find out what has led to the delays and the cost-escalations.



Hon House Chairperson, the committee has looked at all the issues and we have 23 recommendations that we are



putting to the House today. However, it is important that we also point out that Eskom has been receiving qualified audits now for three years, 2017, 2018 and 2019. It has suffered a R2,3 billion in losses, R19,6 billion in irregular expenditure and the debt of R380 billion.



The maintenance cost to address the defects have been estimated at R7 billion for Medupi Power Station and  R285 million for Kusile Power Station. These two projects are mainly funded through loans from various financial institutions which of course are an issue we are concerned about.



However, I do want to move to some of the recommendations which I believe are very, very important. Recommendation 6,5: Vetting of all supply chain practitioners managers and the board must be implemented immediately. For head office as well as other centres where procurement takes place and the report on this must be send to Scopa and Parliament within 60 days from the adoption of this report by this hon House, the National Assembly.



There must be compulsory declarations of interest must be done by all senior managers and directors at the very least annually. Declarations must be enforced immediately in instances where they have not been done in order to avoid employees and directors and their family members doing business with Eskom.



Internal investigations must be speeded up and finalised by 31 March 2020. Consequence management must be followed through where wrongdoing has been proven and quarterly reports in this regard must be submitted to Scopa.



Both Medupi and Kusile Power Stations must be completed on the revised times of 2020 and 2023 respectively. The Eskom Board must jointly and severally be held accountable for any further delays given the massive state-bailouts that have been made available to Eskom over the medium-term budget period.



Quarterly reports on progress and expenditure must be submitted to the committee. I believe it is important hon Chair that we point out that we are extremely concerned



at the fact that these projects were developed in a hurry.



Eskom’s new Power Stations Medupi and Kusile which were intended to come on stream with additional capacity and provide the buffer for Eskom’s existing coal fleet performed very poorly and are behind schedule. The building of these coal fired power stations which started in 2007 and 2008 respectively has been hit by cost- overruns.



The problem started back in 2008-9 during the design stage towards the 2010 World Cup and the projected increases in power for demand. Part of the pressure to construct the power stations was due to the impeding world cup at the time. The project should have been designed in a period of three years, but were designed during only one year and of course that is why we are in the mess we are in now.



The committee is committed to ensuring that we fix the problems at Medupi and Kusile Power Stations and we hope that we will get the support of this House in executing



our mandate and making sure that the recommendations in the report find traction within the timelines that we have stipulated.



I thank the committee members and the staff and the management and leadership at Eskom for their co-operation during our visit and the department. We hope that moving forward; we will strengthen those relations in a bid to fix Eskom. At this point, our point of departure is Medupi and Kusile Power Stations. We present this report to the House for your consideration. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]



There was no debate.



The Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted.



Declaration of vote:


Ms B A VAN MINNEN: Hon House Chair, before you today is the report of Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa’s oversight visit to Medupi and Kusile Power Stations during August 2019. During this oversight the



committee visited the two power stations and met with the Eskom Board at Megawatt Park.



This report contains the recommendations of Scopa arising from that interaction and the DA supports that report.



However, the DA would go further and highlight the ongoing inability and or unwillingness of the government and the relevant Ministers to actually tackle this Gorgon monster by the horns and display the political will to deal with the many challenges poised to destroy Eskom and with it, the South African economy and all our futures.



The depth of the crises facing this country with regards to Eskom is so gargantuan that the fact that it has been allowed to get to this point defies belief.



During 2018, Eskom had a debt of R380 billion. Current estimates put that debt at between R450 and R550 billion.



To place this quantum of debt into context - it is more than the entire budget for health care and education in



the Republic and larger than South Africa’s entire annual income from personal income tax.



This places each and every South African at risk, from the creaking health care system with its multiple failings, to an education system that battles to deliver sufficient skills to equip our children for their future, to risking the ability of the state to provide desperately needed life-saving services to the residents of this country because the money it collects is already owed to an almost unserviceable debt.



So what does the government do?         Does it take steps to ameliorate this?



Does it carry through on its numerous and, oft-announced, plans on how to rescue the entity?



Cut off corrupt coal purchase agreements, costing R40 billion a year?



Rightsize the staff at Eskom to save R31 billion a year. Allow competitive bidding across all forms of power



generation? Get a handle on corruption and escalating costs?






Instead it continues to strip vital Departments like Police, Health, Basic Education and Social Services of more money to pay Eskom yet another sweetheart bailout of R59 billion.



How long will the government treat the people of South Africa like cash cows, milking the nation to feed this voracious predator?



How long will the ANC and its cohorts be allowed to continue suckling on the bloated body of this SOE draining the lifeblood of the economy?



How long will the enemy within take precedence over the millions of South Africans losing their opportunities and their futures to this cancerous vanity project because the ANC government lacks the will to stand up to its internal players and cadres and take the steps needed to



safeguard South Africa’s economy and its future? I thank you. [Applause.]



Ms N V MENTE: House Chair, first and foremost I need to qualify that, as much as I was not part of the delegation which went to Kusile for oversight, the reports we received from the interactions of the members of Standing Committee on Public Accounts, SCOPA, with the management of Eskom, were appalling. They were met with high, unacceptable levels of arrogance. But that is expected when a service provider, a Chairperson of the Board turns CEO of the company.



The managers of Eskom who blatantly refused to be vetted, told Members of Parliament to go jump the highest cliff because they are not going to be vetted. This is the same entity which is riddled with corruption, which is something everybody knows of. The SCOPA went there to establish much further how they can rescue the sinking ship. The problems of Eskom need basic logic. There is no white messiah who is going to come and fix them because of some white superiority. Especially, a white man who



has showed that he cannot manage complex and sophisticated entity.



There is no amount of maneuvering to justify white privilege and cronyism. There is nothing contained in the oversight report by the Standing Committee on Public Accounts that we do not know of. We knew that Medupi and Kusile were ill-conceived because Trevor Manuel wanted to rush the World Bank loan. We knew that contractors abuse workers, we knew that don’t pay them well, we knew that don’t pay benefits, we knew and that will try to cut cost as much as possible as this affects quality of work.



But yet, under this current government, Eskom is allowed to outsource such important needs of the government and the SOEs. In addition to the recommendations made by the report, which we welcome, we would like that the Public Enterprise Committee where Eskom reports, Medupi and Kusile as well as SCOPA to make a follow up on them.



Government should assemble a highly-skilled panel of engineers from all over the world to investigate the delays in the completion of Medupi and Kusile. The



investigation should include forensic financial investigation, technical engineering investigation and management of large-scale projects, if we want them to be successful. The report is also very emphatic in terms of quarterly monitoring tool that we seek to put in place.



We would also like to recommend that there should be a state-owned company which supplies Medupi and Kusile with coal, not these underrated companies that are supplying them with coal that is not of standard. We support the report that Eskom must submit a quarterly report on the progress of Medupi and Kusile which should have included dates in which we should expect the report to be submitted at least by January 2020.



Now House Chairperson, if the Chairperson of the State- Owned Enterprises Committee with the Chairperson of SCOPA will work well in monitoring this particular SOE, we will get somewhere with the recommendations. Thank you. [Time expired.]



Inkosi E M BUTHELEZI: Hon Chair, at this I can rise to this podium today knowing that this report ... [Interjections.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order hon members.



Inkosi E M BUTHELEZI: ... knowing that this report and its recommendations will be acted upon. It’s with thanks to our very own, hon Mr Hlengwa, as the Chairperson of SCOPA in leading this delegation to Medupi and Kusile and for carrying on a long standing tradition and post which the IFP has had in holding government to account.



Hon Chair, I would like to take this opportunity to welcome the new CEO of Eskom. However, the IFP remains cautiously optimistic that the former CEO of Nampak, notwithstanding his record there, will be able to secure a better package deal to rescue Eskom, unlike the package deal we were promised with Medupi and Kusile when the government literally took a lot.



These power stations, unfortunately, were never delivered on time, nor were their price tag truthful. Hon Chair, the committee in reviewing these two plants, did not mince their words as this report on their visit is scathing. It goes beyond me, hon Chairperson and hon members that, something so big, which cost us billion of rands and that was meant to ensure that we power up business cities and town, have become a colossal embarrassment and will remain a blow to government’s records.



Noting these recommendations, vetting of all in supply chain management, procurement services and service providers must be undertaken as the Chairperson of SCOPA has mentioned. We wish to even challenge the CEO himself to undergo this vetting to make sure that he has what it takes to tackle Eskom.



Hon Chair and members, I am covered by the Chairperson in terms of the implementation of this report, because South Africans are looking at us as their representatives to work together in government, to be constructive in our criticisms and most importantly, to hold government to



account. We cannot rest until we fix what is broken and government cannot go on holiday when Eskom fails because Eskom must work. We support the report. Thank you.



Mr W W WESSELS: Hon House Chair, when one reads this report there is no secret as to why we have a failing and failed electricity supplier. Eskom allowed itself to be exploited by contractors, if one reads this report. It is a complete shame that this government, the ANC government, allowed this. These two power stations are the actual example of what has been allowed for 25 years in South Africa.



Let me get to the hon Mente. The hon Mente looks for the source of the problem at Eskom in race and in white people, but let me tell you, hon Mente, that’s not where the problem lies. The problem lies, as you say ... [Interjections.]



Mr M N PAULSEN: Chairperson, I am rising on a point of order.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Wessels take your seat. Why are you rising, hon member?



Mr M N PAULSEN: The hon Wessels is misleading the House. That is not what we said.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No hon member, this is a debate. Allow the hon member to be heard like your member was heard.





Mnr W W WESSELS: Ek sal Afrikaans praat dan sal die agb Paulsen verstaan.





But his colleague said that the problem is white supremacy, and it’s white this and white that. Then she blames the fact that there is outsourcing at the power utility. Why is there outsourcing? There is outsourcing because of affirmative action that completely depleted skills at the power utility, because affirmative action placed the emphasis on race only and not on getting the people to do the job. Get the best person to do the job.



Also, the EFF wants engineers from outside South Africa to assess these power utilities.





Dit is nie nodig nie, agb Huisvoorsitter. Al wat ons nodig het is om die beste mense vir die werk aan te stel en te gebruik. Dit is wat nodig was by hierdie kragvoorsieners en hierdie kragstasies. Dit is wat nodig is by ons staatsentiteite. Dit is wat nodig is om werklik in almal se behoeftes te voorsien.



Die tyd is verby om rassepolitiek te speel. Die tyd is nou om hierdie land te laat werk. Ja, Minister, kry die beste mense vir die werk. Kry die beste mense wat hierdie land kan maak werk, want as hierdie skip sink dan sink ons almal saam. Ek dank u.



Mr S N SWART: House Chair, the ACDP supports this report, and is grateful for SCOPA to have taken its time to go and visit Medupi and Kusile. Now, the building of Medupi and Kusile power stations started in 2007 and 2008, and has been hit by cost overruns, poor engineering designs, labour problems and allegations of corruption.



Now, lot of the contents here which we must appreciate was raised in the Fifth Parliament in the Eskom oversight inquiry. The initial budget which was R79 billion for Medupi and R81 billion for Kusile power stations, the delays now R300 billion in total is the cost overruns. It is unbelievable. The cost of R145 billion for Medupi, R161 billion for Kusile, yet, they are still not completed.



This, for the ACDP and I’m sure for everyone in this House, must find to be totally unacceptable, and in fact, it is a disgrace. So, we see the report and we are grateful for the recommendations that have been set out. Obviously, two portfolio committees as the other speaker mentioned, the Portfolio Committee of Public Enterprises and SCOPA need to work together to ensure that these recommendations are complied with.



I would also urge the portfolio committees to look at the recommendations of the Fifth Parliament’s Oversight Enquiry into Eskom, where many of these recommendations were set out there, such as financial losses to Eskom which must be recovered. All previous employees who left



the employment of Eskom and have been implicated to corruption must in collaboration with law enforcement agencies have criminal charges instituted against them. That we also recommended.



We recommended that the Directors of the boards that were fired previously or that left, should be brought and the application should be brought to have those declared delinquent Directors. So, there are a number of issues here which need to be addressed, a couple of the new recommendations that have been added here are to be supported.



There is an incredible recommendation under 6,21 that says: The production of Gypsum should be processed further in order to capitalise on beneficiation for additional revenue for Eskom. That, I think it’s a positive recommendation. So, we support the recommendation that these two power stations must be completed on the revised unbelievably, extended and delayed times of 2020 and 2023 respectively, and that the Eskom Board must be held accountable to complete those aspects.



From our side, we would like to congratulate the new CEO on his appointment, Mr De Ruyter. We wish him everything of the very best. Hopefully, we have appointed a person of the best merit that can turn Eskom around. The ACDP will support this report. I thank you.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Thank you, hon House Chair. The National Freedom Party welcomes the Report on the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa, that is tabled here today. Indeed, I think what is very, very important is that we must admit that Eskom has serious challenges. Eskom’s survival and success is paramount to economic development and job creation in South Africa in particular.



Now, I think that a whole lot of us have come here and we all have been talking about the challenges that Eskom is facing. However, I think that all of us have an equal responsibility. All political parties are either represented on Scopa, or on appropriations, or on the public enterprises. Therefore, based on the recommendations as set out by the committee, we should all play an equal role in trying to ensure that we do



oversight, monitor and evaluate Eskom and bring it into success. I think we are all have an equal responsibility to be able to do that. You know it is totally unacceptable if something that was going to be costing you R150 billion is now ending up to be R300 billion. I think that a further R18 billion or R20 billion is being estimated to complete this.



What is important is that all these power stations have a lifespan of 40 years or 50 years. So, surely, we should be planning in advance when we know that in 40 years or

50 years time, there is going to be redundant or not serve its ... [inaudible.] ... The other problem is the money that is owed to Eskom and people that are not paying – that is the problem. The other thing is that charity begins at home.



The Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation has said earlier on that economic development has also been hampered as a result of the energy crisis in the country. Now, on the one hand we have got an energy crisis and we are selling energy to neighboring countries. Some of these neighboring countries are not even paying us. They



owe us exorbitant amount of money. Therefore, I think that we need to look at after our own interests before we worry about them – charity begins at home. The other problem is when we employ people in all government departments, including Eskom. We need to learn from our mistakes and what has happened in the past. Let’s employ people that are skilled and that have the capacity to be able to perform and ... [Inaudible.] ... The NFP does not believe that the chief executive officer, CEO, on his own will be able to solve the problem of Eskom. I think it is going to be a collective responsibility of a whole lot of people and the other departments to work together to be able to find a solution. The National Freedom Party supports the report tabled here. Thank you.



Mr T L MARAWU: Thank you very much, Chairperson. I’m not going to waste time and reiterate what the previous speakers have alluded to in terms of the debts of what Eskom owes. However, what is of vital importance is that we are sitting now with a crisis whereby the maintenance alone for Medupi is standing at R7 billion, just for carelessness and R285 million for Kusile – so, you can just imagine. Six units out of five are currently



working. You do serious designs on defects that have been found in Medupi. Kusile has six units and only two of those have been commissioned and it is experienced a high turnover of project managers.



The findings from the Auditor-General are that Eskom employees are doing business with Eskom. No paper trail to verify supply chain management. Contracts were not advertised on time. That alone is a sign of corruption. However, the recommendations we are having as the ATM are that: Internal investigation must be speeded up to be finalised as soon as possible by the Hawks and the Special Investigating Unit, SIU; financial loss to Eskom must be recovered from those that are responsible; consequence management must be fast-tracked and all officials must be vetted; and a turnaround strategy must be in place if it is not already in place, it must be there, then it must be implemented as such. Thank you very much, Chair.



Mr S S SOMYO: Thank you very much, House Chair. We must appreciate, all of us, the fact that the matters that have bedevilled Eskom are, indeed, not knew and are,



indeed, not afresh. Known as they are, the President in this podium in appreciation has indicated enormity of the task that we face as the country. In accepting that task, he declared that the country is moving forward to guarantee that Eskom must be made to work. Eskom is too big to fail.



In the words that we appreciate the committee in unison went to Kusile, Medupi and Eskom. We saw and we are here to attest to that fact. We can’t then speak as if we have only discovered when we went to Medupi, Kusile or to Eskom. These matters are matters that are a priority to the nation. Eskom is a priority to us all. In terms of the quality of production incapacity of that institution, we seek to benefit maximally by improving the access to coal in the appreciation of powering electricity gains in Kusile.



Currently, we have seen how coal is received through trucks, more than 400 loads of trucks that had to deliver coal into Kusile. In the appreciation of that adversity we are appreciative of the fact that, currently, Eskom is engaged in negotiations with the coal mine which is just



next to Kusile, which to itself seeks to change the benefit in terms of value, price and in terms of quality of the coal which is going to assist the actual generation which would want to some might benefit from as the country. Yes, those two projects are too big. Those two projects were driven by the fact that we must guarantee that this country must not fail to provide requisite capacity in as far as electricity generation is concerned.



Today, while we face these limitations, we are in the route of ensuring that we improve the standard of performance of that institution. Yes, we are here today because the report is tabled in the House. As the ANC, we fully support the recommendations carried through that report and we seek to emphasise as well that the Minister of Mineral Resources and Energy and the Minister of Public Enterprises must work together to guarantee the country’s benefit of a predictable electricity lines which will be extended for our own communities. That is what we want to ensure as the ANC that people of this country will start to see that, indeed, the Sixth Parliament, the sixth administrations, is working in the



interests of the people of this country. Therefore, the report stands to be supported by the African National Congress. Thank you. [Applause.]



Motion agreed to.



Report accordingly adopted







(Draft Resolution)





Mnu Z M D MANDELA: Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo, umbutho wesizwe undulula ngaphandle kwesibhengezo:



Okokuba le Ndlu-



(1) iqaphele ngomothuko nodandatheko isithwakumbe sokushiya ngepahanyazo yiKumkani yeSizwe samaXhosa, uKumkani uMpendulo Calvin Sigcawu. Ahh Zwelonke! uKumkani unduluke kwisibhedlele iNelson Mandela



Academic eMthatha ngolwesine umhla we—14 kule yeNkanga emva kwengulo ende.



(2) ikhumbule ukuba uKumkani uZwelonke wangena kwisihlalo sobukumkani ukususela kwixesha lokubeka inqawa kukayise uKumkani uXolilizwe Sigcawu ngonyaka wama-2005.



(3) ikhumbule kwakhona ukuba uKumkani uZwelonke lo kumlibo nomnombo weSizwe samaXhosa, ube ngowama-22 kwaye ikumkani le yafungiswa njenge Kumkani yeSizwe samaXhosa komkhulu eNqadu kwela phondo lengqwele ngowama-2015.



(4) Siyavuma okokuba ubeyinkokeli enomqolo nekhaliphileyo kwaye enezakhono ezendeleyo ekuphuhliseni.



(5) Sithi siyile Ndlu, lala ngoxolo sizukulwana sikaTogu, kaNgcwangu, Mdange kaTshiwo. Ahh Zwelonke!



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)





Me V VAN DYK: Ek stel sonder kennisgewing voor namems die DA:



Dat die Huis—



(1) kennis neem dat Me Gerda Steyn, een van Suid- Afrika se top langafstand-atlete, die New York- marathon binne 2:27:48 op Sondag, 3 November 2019 voltooi het;



(2) besef dat Me Steyn haar persoonlike rekord vir die 42 kilometer marathon-afstand met haar 11de plek posisie in die marathon verpletter het, en het daarmee die vyfde Suid-Afrikaanse vrou geword om deur die 2:30:00 versperring te breek;



(3) verder kennis neem dat Me Steyn met hierdie prestasie tot die vierde posisie op die Suid- Afrikaanse vroue-ranglys in die marathon geklim het nadat sy ook vroeër hierdie jaar die Twee Oseane-en Comrades marathons gewen het;



(4) verder besef dat Me Steyn ook nou kwalifiseer om aan die 2020 Olimpiese Spele in Tokyo deel te neem met haar rekord hardloop-tyd in die New York-marathon;



(5) Me Steyn hiermee geluk wens met haar ongelooflike prestasies wat sy hierdie jaar behaal het; en



(6) haar nog meer sukses vir die toekoms toewens.










(Draft Resolution)



Dr S S THEMBEKWAYO: I rise on behalf of the EFF to move without notice:



That the House-



(1) notes the publication of the inequality trends in South Africa report released by Statistics South Africa a few days ago.



(2) further notes that the report details with chilling evidence the fact that we have been emphasizing for the past few years, that the political freedom we got in 1994 did not translate into social and economic freedom for the majority of our people, who were marginalised during colonialism and apartheid.



(3) acknowledges that the report paints a horrifying picture of the state of rural provinces such as Eastern Cape, Limpopo and KwaZulu-Natal. In these provinces people lack basic services such as piped water and electricity.



(4) further acknowledges that eight out of 10 black households are still dependant on the dysfunctional public health care system whilst only one out of 10 white households uses public health care with the rest going to properly resourced private hospitals.



(5) also notes that the unemployment rate, the inequality in wages, access to good quality schools are still determined by race, with whites at the much better economic positions compared to black people.



(6) acknowledges that the policies of the past 20 years have not dealt with the dilapidating effects colonialism and apartheid and something radical needs to be done to free our peop0le from economic servitude. I so move. Thank you.



Motion not agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Ms E D PETERS: Hon Chairperson, the ANC moves without notice:



That the House-



(1) welcomes the African development Bank’s Africa Investment Forum held in Johannesburg from the 11-13 November 2019.



(2) acknowledges that dignitaries and delegates from the continued were addressed by President Cyril Ramaphosa of South Africa, Paul Kagame of Rwanda, Nana Akufo-Addo of Ghana and Prime Minister Carlos Agostinho do Rosárioof Mozambique.



(3) further acknowledges the discussions focussed on Africa’s Face conversation with African heads of state.



(4) understands that President Cyril Ramaphosa identified infrastructure, energy, manufacturing and tourism as sectors where the most investment opportunities exist in South Africa.



(5) further understands that all Presidents agreed that continuing governance issues needed to be addressed such as political stability, security and conflict and most importantly, that Africa is a better place than ever for investment and



(6) calls for more secured investment interest in 2019, when compared to 2018 where deals valued at $38,7 billion were secured. Thank you.



Motion not agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)


Mr N SINGH: Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes that today, 19 November, marks World Toilet Day as adopted by the United Nations to inspire the action to tackle the global sanitation crisis and to encourage the implementation of policies to increase access to sanitation among the poor, along with a call to end the practice of open-air defecation;



(2) acknowledges that around 4,2 billion people around the world live without safely managed sanitation, and 673 million people are forced to defecate in the open, posing many health risks;



(3) further acknowledges that World Toilet Day is about nature-based solutions to our sanitation needs as well as inspiring action to tackle the global sanitation crisis and help achieve Sustainable Development Goal, SDG, 6, which promises sanitation for all by 2030;



(4) recognises that the issue of access to decent sanitation in this country has been persistent, with



many still not having access to decent and safe sanitation in their homes and even at schools;



(5) further recognises that in light of the looming water crisis we are currently faced with, there is a need for toilet and sanitation systems to work in harmony with ecosystems as we experience unprecedented climate changes; and



(6) calls on the government to provide all with decent sanitation, in particular our schoolchildren and people living in rural communities.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolutions)



Ms T BREEDT: House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes that South Africa’s para-athletes successfully competed in the 2019 World Para Athletic Championships that were held in Dubai, United Arab Emirates from 7 to 15 November 2019;



(2) further notes that this is the biggest sport within the Paralympic arena in terms of the number of participants and countries;



(3) acknowledges the exceptional performance and success of our athletes during the championship; and



(4) congratulates:



(a) Ntando Mahlangu, the gold medal winner in the 200m T61 category;



(b) Anrune Weyers, another gold medal winner in the women’s 400m T47 category;



(c) Mpumelelo Mhlongo, who raced to a silver medal finish in the T64 event;



(d) Charl du Toit who took a bronze in the T37 400m event;



(e) Reinhardt Hamman, for a bronze for javelin;



(f) Johanna Pretorius, for a bronze in the T13 100m;



(g) Sheryl James, for a bronze in the T37 400m; and



(h) Simone Kruger who set a new world record in the F38 discus combined class.



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Mr X NQOLA: House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes that Deputy President David Mabuza, in his capacity as Special Envoy to South Sudan, has welcomed progress that has been made in the implementation of the Revitalised Agreement on the Resolution of Conflict in the Republic of South Sudan;



(2) welcomes the meetings that were convened of the Special Envoys on 25 and 26 October 2019 held in the Republic of Djibouti, and the Communique of the Tripartite Summit in Entebbe held in the Republic of Uganda on 7 November 2019;



(3) further welcomes the working visit the Deputy President undertook to the Republic of Sudan on 13-

14 November 2019 and the follow-up meeting to take place on 20-21 November 2019 as part of the consultations with regional leaders to avert a deteriorating political and security situation in the region and to ensure peace and development in South Sudan; and



(4) acknowledges the continued support from the South African government to all efforts that are meant to enhance the complete implementation of the Revitalised Agreement on South Sudan.



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Mr S N SWART: House Chair, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes with sadness the death of a patient, who was shot at a Witbank hospital after having been admitted for gunshot wounds at the hospital;



(2) views this tragic incident as a serious breach of the safety and security of staff and patients at the hospital;



(3) trusts that a full departmental investigation into the shooting will establish how an assailant could enter the hospital armed with a firearm to shoot a patient;



(4) extends its deepest condolences to the family and friends of the deceased patient; and



(5) encourages the department to provide counselling services to traumatised staff members.



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)





Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Sihlalo weNdlu, ndifuna ukuqala ndisebenzise eli thuba ndithi, ndiva kabuhlungu xa uthe wamngena emlonyeni uNkosi uMandla Mandela ngelixa ebesadlulisa umyalezo wovelwano ngokusweleka kuka kumkani. Le nto izakugxininisa into ebonakala ngokungathi



iinkosi zomthonyama siziphatha okwabakhwetha. Ndicinga ukuba ubufanele ukumyeka awugqibezele la mcimbi kuba ubaluleke ngeyona ndlela. Mandikhawuleze ndize kwi-UDM nesiphakamiso sayo ndithi ...





House Chairperson, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes the sentence handed down to Luyanda Botha by the Western Cape High Court on Friday morning, 15 November 2019;



(2) welcomes the three life sentences handed down to Luyanda Botha, who confessed to the gruesome rape and murder of the University of Cape Town student Uyinene Mrwetyana;



(3) acknowledges and appreciates the swift work done by the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development and the police in bringing her killer to



book and ensuring that he faces the full might of the law for his crimes;



(4) recognises the significance of this sentence in serving as a deterrent to all men who rape and kill many of our women and children of our country; and



(5) calls on all the relevant departments of government to further build on their collaborative and impressive work on this case and extend to all other cases of gender-based violence in order to reassure the millions of women that South Africa is serious about fighting the scourge of gender-based violence in our country.



Agreed to.





USIHLALO WENDLU (Mnu M L D Ntombela): Asinqikazi mnumzane ngenhlonipho esiyinika Ingonyama yamaXhosa, akukho ukunqikaza.






(Draft Resolution)



Ms B S MASANGO: Chairperson, on behalf of the DA, I hereby move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes the impressive work that the City of Tshwane is doing to grow the economy of the city and create much-needed jobs;



(2)        further notes that the Automotive Special Economic Zone yielded by the partnership between the city, Gauteng provincial government, the Department of Trade and Industry and the Ford Motor Company has culminated in a R10 billion investment for the city, creating over 200 000 jobs;



(3)        acknowledges that the city recently secured a R10 billion investment for pipeline development projects while hosting its inaugural Trade and Investment Summit; and



(4) congratulates the executive mayor and the management team of the city on their achievements in attracting these investments to create jobs to uplift the lives of the residents of the City of Tshwane.



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Mrs D B NGWENYA: Chairperson, on behalf of the EFF I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes the Western sponsored coup in Bolivia, which deposed a democratically elected leader, Evo Morales and forced him to exile;



(2) further notes that president Morales the first indigenous president in Bolivia who had proven



that national wealth could be nationalised in a manner that benefits the people as a whole and that it is possible to lead a socialist state in the 21st century;



(3) acknowledges that it was this drive to socialise the means of the production in Bolivia that made president Morales a prime target of the corrupt and racist capital class in Bolivia, which got backing from the United States to unleash violence against the people of Bolivia;



(4) further acknowledges that in the 2014 general elections president Morales had polled over 65% of the votes and in the recent elections, he got 10% more votes than his closest rival;



(5) admits that he sponsored violence and racism which followed the coup in Bolivia are a perversion of democracy and proves for all to see that regardless of how popular and progressive leaders may be, they will be deposed if they do not deal



decisively with entrenched capitalist greed when they take over power; and



(6) Sends our regards to the people of Bolivia, and to president Morales, to let them know that they have friends and companions in the people of South Africa.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): If there are no objections I put the motion. In the light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. A motion without notice will now become a notice of motion.






(The late Khaya Mpunzima)



Mr S LUZIPO: Chairperson, on behalf of the ANC, I move without notice:



That the House -



(1) notes with sadness the passing on of the well- known journalist and cameraman, Khaya Mpunzima, on Friday, 8 November 2019;



(2) acknowledges that Mpunzima, a father of four and a grandfather to one, dedicated his life in improving the lives of ordinary South Africans through journalism;



(3) recalls that his weapon was his camera which he used to unearth the hidden sufferings of the poor masses wherever they may be;



(4) further recalls that he launched his career with the public broadcaster in 1981 as a junior cameraman, and since then produced work that was recognised through multiple awards that he received;



(5)        understands that both his developmental and investigative journalism has helped keep those in power in check while informing many South Africans of their rights and responsibilities;



(6) remembers that in the 38 years of service to the public, Mpunzima worked in Johannesburg, Port Elizabeth and in Bhisho and through him and his steady mentoring many decorated journalists and technical crews emerged; and



(7) conveys its condolences to his family, friends and media fraternity, may his great soul rest in eternal peace and farewell the son of the soul.



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon House Chair, on behalf of the NFP, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes the desecration of more than 70 headstones of Muslim graves in the Mowbray Cemetery, with the formation of a cross and other symbols with these headstones;



(2) further notes that this is clearly not an act of hooliganism or criminality, but a well- planned attack on the sanctity of the graves of Muslims;



(3) realises that some of the headstones were placed in freshly dug holes and that another grave of a religious leader was also vandalised at the bottom of Table Mountain;



(4) understands that this is an act of religious intolerance that has been condemned by the Interfaith community;



(5) condemns this act of religious intolerance and Islamophobia; and



(6) calls on the South African Police Service to ensure that the perpetrators are brought to book.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Ms N P MAHLO: Chairperson, on behalf of the ANC, I move without notice:



That the House –



(1) notes that Roland Koller, the Swiss tourist that was involved in a taxi and giraffe accident in the Kruger National Park on Sunday

10 November 2019, passed away at Milpark Hospital on Wednesday, 13 November 2019, may his soul rest in peace;



(2) understands that the accident happened when a Toyota Quantum collided with a young giraffe and fell on to the incoming hired vehicle that Roland was driving, crushing the roof;



(3) recalls that he was taken to Mediclinic in Nelspruit, but later transferred to Johannesburg, where he died three days later;



(4) welcomes the charge of culpable homicide opened against the driver of the Toyota Quantum; and



(5) extends its heartfelt condolences to the wife and family of Roland Koller.



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr L M NTSHAYISA: Hon Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the AIC:



That the House—



(1) notes the ordainment of Rev Purity Malinga as the first female presiding bishop of the Methodist Church in a period of over 200 years;



(2) acknowledges her predecessor, Rev Ziphozihle Siwa, from whom she took over;



(3) further notes that the reverend’s coronation took place on Sunday, 17 November 2019, in Germiston, Gauteng;



(4) recognises the symbolism of her inauguration which in the main, affirms women’s authority and rightful standing in our society;



(5) further recognises that the outgoing bishop delivered a moving tribute and sermon to celebrate Rev Purity’s inauguration;



(6) further acknowledges that the sermon rendered by the outgoing bishop reiterated the importance of responsible leadership, ethics and the need to root out patriarchy in churches and other social frontiers;



(7) also notes with appreciation the work done by the incoming bishop at the SA Council of Churches;



(8) takes great pride in the work of both bishops in their previous designations; and



(9) wishes the new presiding bishop all the best in her new position. Igama Lamakhosikazi Malibongwe! [Praise the name of women!]



Agreed to.






(Draft Resolution)



Ms L N MJOBO: Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:



That the House—



(1) notes that severe storms and a tornado hit parts of KwaZulu-Natal on Tuesday, 12 November 2019, with two human casualties and 20 injuries reported by Wednesday morning;



(2) understands that animals were reported to have been injured or killed in certain areas and power lines were also down;



(3) further understands that a number of homes have collapsed, countless trees uprooted, and there are fears of possible missing people and deaths; and



(4) thanks the volunteers and emergency teams who worked hard to provide support to the affected communities.



Agreed to.







(Draft Resolution)



Ms S GRAHAM-MARÉ: Chair, I move without notice on behalf of the DA:



That the House—



(1) notes that Union High School in Graaff-Reinet, established as an English-medium school in 1919, has achieved excellent results in academics, consistently achieving a matric pass rate above 95% and delivering the top matric student in Graaff-Reinet in 2018;



(2) further notes that the legendary television Science and Mathematics teacher, Mr William Smith, matriculated at Union High School;



(3) acknowledges that Union High School has produced several Springboks in rugby, shooting and spearfishing, as well as the former captain of the protea women’s hockey team, Ms Sulette Damons, and Ms Kelsey Minnaar who has been elected for the 2019 SA Women’s Under 21 Hockey Team;



(4) congratulates Union High School on the centenary of its establishment this year; and



(5) wishes the principal, Mr William Pringle, and his staff continued success.



There being an objection, the motion without notice will be converted to a notice of motion.







(Draft Resolution)



Ms Z NKOMO: I move without notice on behalf of the ANC:



That the House—



(1) notes with sadness the passing on of former SA Broadcasting Corporation, SABC, group chief executive officer, CEO, Solly Mokoetle, on Saturday, 16 November 2019;



(2) recalls that Mokoetle was a liberation struggle veteran who was trained in the field of communications with a focus on broadcasting, up to masters level;



(3) further recalls that he started working for the public broadcaster in 1993 as a senior general manager for radio, and later became chief operations officer and a group executive officer;



(4) understands that following his departure from the public broadcaster, he joined the Department of Communications to further play an important role in the development of the industry;



(5) believes that his contribution to the SABC and the communications industry will serve as his legacy; and



(6) conveys its condolences to his family, friends and colleagues.



Agreed to.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): That concludes motions without notice. Hon members, may I humbly request all of you to stand up in order to observe a moment of silence for the passing on of the supreme king of AmaXhosa?






(Member’s Statement)



Ms J TSHABALALA (ANC): Hon Chair, the ANC welcomes the resolution of the United Nations, UN, General Assembly on

7 November 2019 with regard to the United States of



America, USA, blockade against Cuba where 187 countries voted in favour of the resolution demanding the ending of the blockade. Only three countries voted against this resolution including apartheid Israel while two countries abstained.



The ANC believes that this resolution is a step forward for those within the international community as the Cuban revolution inspired peace-loving people around the world in the same way they inspired and assisted in the defeat of apartheid in South Africa.



This is indeed a defeat of the right wing neo-liberal offensive globally. We hope that with this resolution our own blockade by the Western Cape government for medical students being trained in Cuba will also end.



Cuban determination to remain true to the gains of the 1959 revolution therefore, fight any country that wishes to impose each ideological imperialism Cuba has sustained through the nation’s high quality education and health care.



Ordinary Cubans remain loyal to the revolution through being members of the communist party. Their consciousness and how the communist party and its own history, the revolution, and they say everything for the revolution, nothing against it. El sambre. [Applause.]






(Member’s Statement)



Mr J W W JULIUS (DA): House Chair, the slow progress in processing and payout of land claims in South Africa has made the citizens growing impatient and hopeless of any luck soon because it is taking this department forever to process these claims.



One case in reference is the Frank Pieters family claim which is going on far too long; decades now. This family has been sent from pillar to post, email after email, repeated investigations and research that never end.

Applications going back and forth from investigators to the Chief Land Claims Commissioner.



Minister, when can the Frank Pieters family say that the injustices of the past are restored for them? How many more communities in our country are waiting for these claim payouts? Claimants from Bekkersdal, Mohlakeng and Toekomsrus are waiting for years now for their claims from Madubulaville, Carletonville and the settlements in Mogale City; the Oppermansgrond and the list goes on.



Sadly, some of our elders died before they could be compensated, Minister. Other elders, our grandmothers and grandfathers are growing old and sick.



Minister, I plead with this government. Before you decide that all land must belong to the government, please payout our people, restore the injustices [Time expired.] of their past before they die. Thank you. [Applause.]






(Member’s Statement)



Ms A M SIWISA (EFF): House Chair, I went to Connie Foster District Hospital in Hartswater in the Northern Cape. The kitchen is dysfunctional, there is only one staff member appointed permanently and depend on volunteers to prepare food for more than 60 patients including new moms.



On daily basis patients do not get their meals on time and when they do get their meals the food is of poor standard.



How do we then expect our people to go to hospital to seek healing but we do not feed them and that has been normalized?



Nutritious meals must be part and parcel of provision of health care.



Can the Minister tell us what is happening with Connie Foster District Hospital? Why is it in the state that it is now and all other hospitals whose kitchens are dysfunctional? Why are we not employing workers on full- time basis in the kitchens? Why are we not buying food



directly from local farms for hospitals and insource workers to prepare nutritious meals patients? Thank you.






(Member’s Statement)



Mr D M NKOSI (ANC): House Chairperson, the ANC welcomes the partnership between government and the automotive manufacturer, Ford, to expand their in investment in Gauteng.



We appreciate the critical role that the private sector is playing in our economy through the creation jobs in order to reduce unemployment and poverty in the country.



The Ford project is a R3,6 billion investment which is expected to create a total of 6 700 jobs.



This investment will kick start the Tshwane Spatial Economic Zone, SEZ. The new zone which would cover a



total of 162 hectares when completed was launched in Silverton, Pretoria on 5 November 2019.



This partnership will see the creation of the world-class automotive spatial economic zone which aims to attract investment and create substantial number of jobs for the region and surrounding areas, including Mamelodi, Eersterus. Other companies have also committed of setting the SEZ from 2020.



The ANC further welcomes the Ford commitment to strive to achieve 60% of local content target by 2035. We believe that this supports South Africa’s strategy to build the economy through creating demand for locally produced goods which will translate to job creation [Time expired.]






(Member’s Statement)



Mr X NGWEZI (IFP): Hon House Chairperson, the backlog in the delivery of Reconstruction and Development Programme,



RDP, homes affects many poor people who have been promised houses and yet have been waiting for them to be delivered for far too many years.



Corruption, of course, remains at the root of many of these issues but for too many years corruption remained just talking point with little to no consequence management.



We need proactive interventions from those in power in tackling these problems.



The IFP has on numerous occasions expressed its concerns regarding the delivery of homes. How long must our people wait? Should they wait until they die? Or should they wait for houses and further wait for title deeds?



Something urgent must be done. Therefore, as the IFP we employ national government to conduct proper and thorough investigations to this backlog as well as to urgently intervene by ensuring that we do away with these counter productive practices that ultimately affect the poorest of the poor. Thank you.







(Member’s Statement)





Me T BREEDT (VF Plus): Die VF Plus is uiters bekommerd oor die tweede uitbraak van bek-en-klouseer in Limpopo hierdie jaar. Suid-Afrika se landbousektor gaan reeds gebuk onder die onsekerheid van grondonteiening sonder vergoeding, die droogte wat baie van die broodmandjie- provinsies reeds vir jare lank teister, en dan nou die verbod op veilings in vier van ons provinsies weens die uitbraak van bek-en-klouseer.



Dit is uiters kommerwekkend dat die departement vandag in die portefeuljekomitee oor landbou nog nie kon sê wat die omvang van die nuutste uitbraak van bek-en-klouseer is nie. Die departement het ’n tekort aan veeartse en in program 2, waaronder veeartse val, is daar ’n

14% vakaturekoers. Dit is bo die aanvaarde norm en kan as een van die redes vir die tweede uitbraak van bek-en- klouseer verantwoordelik gehou word.



Die departement is nie ernstig oor voedselsekuriteit of landbou as een van die hoof dryfvere van ons ekonomie nie. Indien die ANC regering en die departement ernstig hieroor was, het hulle al jare gelede seker gemaak dat die rooi sones en grense beveilig is om te voorkom dat die gesonde diere met besmette diere in kontak kom. Die grens-provinsies van Limpopo, Noordwes, Gauteng en Mpumalanga moet nou, weens die onvermoë van die staat om sy werk te verrig, onder die verbod op veilings in hierdie provinsies ly. Die departement het nodig om hierdie provinsies indringend te ondersoek, en gesonde gebiede in hierdie provinsies te identifiseer en te verklaar waar binne-veilings steeds kan plaasvind om sodoende te verseker dat die ekonomieë van hierdie provinsies en die boere van hierdie provinsies nie finaal geknak word nie. Die departement het nodig om indringend beheer oor hierdie situasie te kry sonder om die kreupelende landbousektor finaal te vernietig. Ek dank u.






(Draft Resolution)



Ms A GELA (ANC): At the ANC parliamentary caucus lekgotla on the weekend of 6-8 September 2019 the ANC noted concerns about the implementation of reforms in visa regulations, which are crucial for boosting the tourism sector in the country.



The lekgotla resolved that the ANC in Parliament will move with greater vigour to ensure that the government implements decisive policy measures, to reignite inclusive growth and create jobs.



We welcome the recent signing of the waiver by Home Affairs Minister, Dr Aaron Motsoaledi, which allows children from other countries to enter the country without carrying additional supporting documents. This will have a positive impact on tourism.



As of Friday, 8 November 2019, children from other countries can enter and depart the country without being required to provide birth certificates, consent letters, and other supporting documents relating to proof of parentage.



The change in the policy follows the road shows to the UK Central Europe and North America, where concerns were raised that South Africa was losing ground in the family travel market, as families were choosing other destinations, owing to the regulations around travelling with minors. Thank you. [Time expired.]






(Draft Resolutions)



Ms T M MBABAMA (DA): Chair, the DA congratulates Landbouweekblad for organising a successful land reform symposium on Thursday and Friday last week in Ceres. This was a third land symposium to showcase successful land reforms.



The two days last week showcased the land reforms model used by Witzenberg Partners in Agri Land Solutions, Pals, a private organisation of farmers dedicated to land reform. Their successful model involves true partnerships between black and white farmers.



It provides full title for the black farmers and comprehensive and ongoing mentorship involving some of our biggest farmers across a whole range of commodities. This demonstrates again that the ANC has got this land thing all wrong.



First we don’t need to change the Constitution to make it happen. Second, the state doesn’t have to drive this process. Looking at the record of state inefficiency, it is better that it does not do it in every case. This has showed that successful land reform can be designed and implemented by private farmers.



Land reform is a complex task and should be open to localised approaches that fit specific conditions. The state needs to improve where it implements and get out of the way where patriotic South Africans are willing and able to do it better. Thank you. [Applause.]






(Draft Resolution)



Rev K R J MESHOE (ACDP): House Chairperson, the ACDP is puzzled by the media statement released by the Department of Basic Education on 29 October 2019 in which they allege:



We have noted with concern that a certain organisation persists in misleading the public by publishing wrong information resulting in unnecessary confusion and panic among South Africans.



Their statement further stated, “The department rejects the notion that comprehensive sexuality education sexualises children.” The ACDP argues that it is the Department of Basic Education that is misleading and confusing the public on this issue.



The ACDP strongly objects to the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization, UNESCO-developed comprehensive sexuality education curriculum that is being imposed on nations around the world. The curriculum has been rejected by a number of countries in Africa, South America and Europe. These include Namibia, Ghana, Colombia and Hungary.



Two weeks ago, ACDP MPs met with some members of SA National Aids Council, Sanac, and the Church Leaders Council of South Africa who told us that the department never consulted them about the controversial material in the Comprehensive Sexuality Education, CSE curriculum.



The ACDP reiterates its call to the department to reopen consultations with concerned parents, school governing bodies, SGBs, and organisations such as Sanac, the Church Leaders Council of South Africa, all trade unions, the ACDP and any other interested parties.






(Draft Resolution)



Mr K L JACOBS (ANC): Chairperson, The DA continues to crack in the Western Cape as they lost another war to the ANC and showed a markedly declining support in two other wards. The ANC continues to hurt the DA in the Western Cape especially in the West Coast region as lost a second ward in less than a year in that region.



The ANC won Vredendal North, Ward 4, where the DA was previously in control, in the recent by-elections of 13 November 2019. Although the DA retained the other two wards, they showed a drop of 20%. The results in predominantly coloured areas spell disaster for the DA.



These follows on the many crises which have befallen the DA including the resignations of senior party leaders, indicating that the DA is facing difficulties, the excuses given by the federal council chairperson, Helen Zille of the emergence of small parties and independents’ having played a role in their decline does not hold water. The ANC believes that local factors play a large role in by-elections. Unemployment is very high and poverty is very real in Vredendal. The streets in the rural areas and farms around ward 4 in Matzikama are full of potholes and the area has undergone extensive degradation in the time under the control of the DA.



The ANC congratulates Cecil le Fleur, the newly-elected councillor of ward 4 and thanks the people of Vredendal for their ANC support. We promise to give them the best



service delivery ever. Thank you. [Interjections.] [Applause.]






(Member’s Statement)



Ms J MANANISO (ANC): Chairperson, the ANC is saddened by the murder of Congress of SA Students, Cosas, Westrand subregion member, Thabileng Mokae. The brutal murder of Ms Mokae – who was allegedly raped, cuffed and burnt with acid by her boyfriend – occurred two weeks ago and is cause for concern for the ANC. We wish to send our deepest condolences to the family and the larger community of Mohlakeng.



It is our view that responding to gender-based violence, GBV, is a societal responsibility. The police and community of Mohlakeng worked hand in hand to ensure that the suspect is arrested. He is currently behind bars and we hope that he won’t be granted bail. Thank you.






(Member’s Statement)



Mr M S MALATSI (DA): House Chair, after failing for two months to implement a court order to sell Nooitgedacht farm in Limpopo to Ntate David Rakgase, the Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development is now trying to dodge its legal commitment. It is now only offering to sell just half of the farm. This is petty and vindictive.



In the North Gauteng High Court judgment in September, the state was told in no uncertain terms that it must sell the farm to Ntate Rakgase – who has been farming on it for almost 30 years. It now looks like the department never had any intention of selling the farm, as it is now seemingly attempting to frustrate the process, despite the court order. What is clear is that the department’s initial attempts to appeal the High Court judgment – which it later withdrew due to pressure from the DA and



the public – is for government to be the sole custodian of land, by keeping new farmers under their control as life-long tenants, instead of allowing them to be owners of these farms.



Minister, do the right thing, and ...





... le tlogeleng go ratharatha le rekisetseng Ntate Rakgase polasi eo.





Thank you. [Applause.]






(Member’s Statement)





Mr M N PAULSEN (EFF): Chairperson, the people of Evo Morales view the appointment of Andre de Ruyter as Eskom’s new CEO as antitransformational, and we feel that



this forms part of a racist project that seeks to undermine transformation in this country’s economy.



The Minister of Public Enterprises, Pravin Gordhan, is leading a racist project to undermine and exclude black people and Africans in particular from strategic leadership positions in state-owned companies. The appointment is irrational, shameful and should be rejected.



An incompetent board set the criteria for recruitment. The person appointed collapsed Nampak’s share value, recorded abnormal losses, and did nothing exceptional. He was appointed by an incompetent board and a conflicted and incompetent Minister.



The only explanation for this person’s appointment could be the fact that he is white, and the Minister, Pravin, only appoints whites to strategic positions. [Interjections.] He appointed the CEO of Denel who is also white. He appointed the acting CEO of Transnet, who is also not an African.



He illegally imposed a white CEO, Nico Bezuidenhout – whose highest qualification is matric – as CEO of Mango Airlines.





Chairperson, on a point of order!



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon member, could you hold on. Yes, hon Minister?





You consistently allow members of that party to make such spurious allegations against a serving Minister without following the Rules and bringing a motion to the House so that the allegations can be tested. I ask you to rule, Chairperson. The hon member is out of order.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon member Paulsen. I heard that very clearly. The allegations that you have made ... not ... [Inaudible.] ... racist ... But the allegations you have made, I heard it. I also heard that you mentioned hon Pravin as “Gordhan”. You never said hon Gordhan. I rule that being out of order and



unparliamentary. Could you please refrain from doing that. [Interjections.]



And you need to withdraw what you have said about the allegations, hon Paulsen.



Ms N V MENTE: On a point of order, Chair.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Can we finish this one first. I’ll give you an opportunity. Hon Paulsen, can you please withdraw.



Ms N V MENTE: No, the Minister is abusing us. She’s got an opportunity to respond after all these statements have been read. She can then say whatever she wants to say at that time. [Interjections.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon member, I did not recognise you.



An HON MEMBER: Hey, sit down! [Interjections.] You! Sit down! [Interjections.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members, I am still waiting for hon Paulsen to withdraw the statement he made about the hon Minister having appointed on the basis of race. Could you please withdraw that statement, hon Paulsen.



Mr M N PAULSEN: Chairperson, could I just have some clarity. What is it that you want me to withdraw?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Paulsen, could you please withdraw?



An HON MEMBER: What? What?



Mr M N PAULSEN: What do you want me to withdraw, Chairperson?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Paulsen, I have requested you to withdraw the statement that you made with regard to hon Gordhan. You know what you said. [Interjections.] Appointing on the basis on race and calling hon Gordhan just ... [Inaudible.] ... on that.



Mr M N PAULSEN: Hon Gordhan only appoints non-Africans and mainly white people.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Paulsen, I request you again to withdraw.



Mr M N PAULSEN: I can’t do that, Chairperson. I’m not going to do that. He appoints non-Africans and white people to senior positions in state-owned entities.

Pravin Gordhan appoints non-Africans and white people to senior positions in state-owned entities.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Paulsen, if you keep on ... [Inaudible.] ... now, and if you are not going to do what I am asking you to do, I will have no alternative but to request you to leave the House. [Interjections.]



Are you going to withdraw or are you going to leave the House?



Mr M N PAULSEN: Chairperson, I reiterate, Pravin Gordhan only appoints non-Africans and mainly white people in state-owned entities.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Paulsen, in that case, I request you to leave the House.



Ms N V MENTE: Chairperson?



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Yes, hon Mente? I recognise you.



Ms N V MENTE: In your rulings, you must not be selective. They must apply to everyone. Your member over there just conducted herself in a manner that is very despicable by shouting over the mic while I was addressing you. You did not say anything to her. So it is acceptable for your members to display unacceptable behaviour, while our members must be thrown out of the House! You heard her.

She spoke into the mic. [Interjections.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you, hon member.



An HON MEMBER: She must go! She must go! She must withdraw!



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you, hon member. I have heard you, hon Mente, but please note that you are referring to a person that I do not know ... [Interjections.] ... and a member that I did not ...



Ms N V MENTE: You know her! She spoke over the mic. You heard her. She’s sitting there with a black doekie [head scarf.] You did not ask her to withdraw her conduct. [Interjections.] She’s sitting there wearing a black doekie and a black and white top. And you heard her very well. [Interjections.] Do not be misled by the Table staff. She’s sitting there. She spoke into the mic. And she is on Hansard. You cannot tell us that you did not hear her. Stop being selective here!



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you very much, hon member. Now you can take your seat.



Ms N V MENTE: No! She must withdraw! She must withdraw! [Interjections.] She must withdraw! We are not going to be disrespected here. [Interjections.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon members, I will not rule on a person that I did not see. [Interjections.] The issue of Hansard will only come after I have gone through Hansard, but not before that.

So, for now, I will not rule. [Interjections.]



Please note, hon Mente, that your member has not yet left the House. I would request him again to leave the House. [Interjections.]



Hon Mente, I’m not prepared to dialogue with you. I have ruled on that. If you are not satisfied with the ruling that I have made, you know all the ... [Inaudible.] ... that you have to follow. I hope that deals with the matter.



Ms N V MENTE: What’s the ruling you made? You haven’t made any ruling!



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): I am not prepared to dialogue with you. [Interjections.] Thank you, hon Mente. I have made a ruling on that. Thank you very much. [Interjections.] Shall we continue?






(Member’s Statement)



Ms M M THLAPE (ANC): Hon Chair, the ANC wish to congratulate Minister Thoko Didiza on her election as the Chairperson of the African Union Specialised Technical Committee, STC, on Agriculture, Rural Development, Water and Environment.



The STCs are thematic committees, with a purpose to work closely with the AU Commission’s departments and are answerable to the executive council. The committee she leads focuses on reviewing strategic goals and identifying synergies and linkages, as well as implications for achieving the overarching goals of the



Malabo Declaration on Accelerated Agricultural Growth and Transformation for Shared Prosperity and Improved Livelihoods.



Minister Dididza is a tried and tested leader best suited to lead this important committee and it is our conviction that she will do us proud. She is fulfilling a role of developing the African continent as envisaged by President Nelson Mandela. We know that she will serve the entire continent with dignity, professionalism and integrity, and the ANC wishes her all of the best in the execution of this important and tough responsibility and we would like to assure her of our unwavering support.

Malibongwe! [Praise!] [Applause.]






(Member’s Statement)





Mna J B MAMABOLO (ANC): Modulasetulo, re re mahloko ka ge







 ... the ANC mourns the passing on of Councillor Steve Mashabela and Koko Eldah Dipela. We extend our sincere condolences to the families and friends of Councillors, Steve Mashabela and Koko Eldah Dipela, who passed on last week.



Councillor Mashabela was the ANC Councillor in the Polokwane Local Municipality, a Member of the Mayoral Committee, MMC, responsible for Energy.



During his tenure as the Tsietsi Mashinini Ward 14 Councillor, he assisted in the development of Luthuli Park area from an informal settlement to a fully-fledged township, especially 9L. He was indeed a champion of service delivery. Councillor Mashabela was a star ...





 ... yoo a bego a theeletša dinyakwa tša badudi – a di theeletša ka nnete.






At the time of his passing on, he was the Regional Executive Committee, REC, member of the mighty ANC Peter Mokaba Region. Condolences to his wife Shamin and the entire family.



Chairperson, Koko Edah Dipela was a selfless and dedicated community leader who assisted the needy and disadvantaged community members in the area of Seshego. Her initiatives in the development of the society cannot go unnoticed. Condolences to her daughter, Comrade Sylvy and the son who was the former PSL Chief Executive Officer and the former ANC Youth League Deputy President, Comrade Andrew Dipela.



The passing on of Councillor Mashabela and Koko Dipela is a great loss to the people of Polokwane and Limpopo.

Their contributions will be sadly missed by many in the community. Most importantly, they will be remembered for the love of the people they served. The two comrades will be laid to rest this Saturday, on 23 November in the village of Ga-Mashabela in Sekhukhune District and Seshego respectively. Farewell comrades.







(Minister’s Response)



The MINISTER OF TOURISM: On the statement, Chairperson, relating to the released by Minister Motsoaledi of the travel notice in terms of our tourist, especially as Minister Mboweni said the young tourist. We want to appreciate the work that has been done by Minister Motsoaledi and his team. As the Tourism Department and the sector, there has been a congratulatory message from that side to be able to communicate that this is a positive development from the South African government to increase tourists in the country.



This indeed as indicated by the statement and the hon member is that when we did the travel tours road shows in Europe specifically and other markets, the feedback we received was that these was inhabiting for families to come into the country. Therefore, we appreciate this because it works towards the R21 million targets that the President has set for all of us to be able to reach.



So, therefore, we do agree with the sentiment and we are looking forward to more collaboration and the work that is being done by Home Affairs, including even on the issue surround e-visa because it’s very progressive towards the tourism sector. We appreciate that.









(Minister’s Response)





DEVELOPMENT: Thank you very much hon members for the various matters that you have raised on your Member’s Statement and I would like to appreciate the congratulatory message from the ANC and I guess the House on the responsibility that one has been given.



With respect to the land claims matters, specifically that has been raised by hon Julius; I want to say yes, we are committed as the President has indicated then we need to resolve the land restitution claims that have been put.



As part of the Inter-Ministerial Committee, IMC, we have been working together with other departments who are critical to these works such as Public Works, particularly where some of the land liaise within other arms of state. We will follow up on the specific matter that you have raised of the Pieterse claim and we will respond to you accordingly.



But I do want to say that some of the claims that we are dealing with now are a bit complex and take some time.

Some of them get delay because of litigation where there is no agreement in respect of price. Therefore, it takes longer than it is necessary. But also, some of the claims deal with very complex matters where some restoration cannot be done and we find that claimants are insisting to have those restorations despite the difficulties that may be there.



With regards to the matter of Mr Rakgatsi, I am not sure hon member where the concern comes from because indeed as a state we are not opposing. Actually, the matter between us and Rakgatsi to settle in terms of what the court has decided is on course. The only community that is



disputing is the community where the land in question is, who are claiming that Mr Rakgatsi was not using the whole land as it is alleged in his court papers. But that’s not the matter between us and Rakgatsi. So, that matter as far as I am concern is not an issue for the state as we speak.



With respect to the foot and mouth disease, FMD, matter – well, the first test case in 2019 was established in the northern part of Limpopo in a communal area. That matter was attended to and dealt with by the department. This current one, the land owner who was using a private vet only informed government on 1 November. Immediately as that happened, we actually quarantined engaged with the farmer to know where he bought the herd of cattle that might have been affected. We went to the auction where he bought, we quarantined the place and then we have been the traces of all people who bought. As we speak, there are five other feedlots that have been identified in Limpopo.



We have been having meetings with the industry and we have agreed that we will have a joint steering committee,



which has been working since then to curb the disease in the province while we deal with the vaccination and all other related matters.



But there is a matter that the steering committee has actually ...



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon Minister, wind up.





DEVELOPMENT: Thank you very much. I will just wind up. We are actually monitoring that the disease does not spread beyond Limpopo. Therefore, we have asked auctioneers from the other provinces not to source their animals from Limpopo because they will spread the disease and therefore, affect the whole economy of the lives of industry of South Africa. Thank you very much.






(Minister’s Response)



The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chair, I am responding to the statement made by Ntate Moruti [Reverend]. I am not sure which SA National Aids Council, Sanac, he is talking about, nor which teachers he is talking about because the very groups he is mentioning, I have been with them in roadshows as early as two weeks to discuss this matter, and they were in support. So, Sanac is in complete support. Perhaps we have to ask: Which group is he talking about?



Again, you can’t choose countries and say that this country says this. We are a sovereign state and our decisions are not going to be made by what other countries are saying. Yes, some are against it whilst some are supporting it. We can’t be ruled by fundamentalists, which were even against lesbians, gays and LGBT groups in general, and then come here and say they are going to dictate to us.



We are guided by our Constitution which recognises human rights and we are going to respect every group. So, we are not going to be dictated by groups. So, what we can do – which we have done – is to put our materials on the



website. I want the member to go to the website and come back to say what is offensive there.



When this campaign started, we put the materials on the website and parents came in numbers to say this is the greatest thing. They are now running a campaign on the basis of rumours and disinformation. Of all the images that are on the website, none of them belong to the state. So, I really want Moruti to go and look at the materials and come to tell me whether we can still debate on the basis of rumours. He is talking about rumours and I really am keen to discuss with him further. So, these are rumours and disinformation. [Applause.]










(Minister’s Response)





Chairperson, in response to the statement made by hon Duma, I would like to say: Yes indeed, the launch of the



Silverton Automotive Hub in Tshwane was a major milestone in the SCZ programme of the Department of Trade and Industry. It was also a major boost to confidence in the South African economy at a time when the global economy is facing major headwinds.



So, we need to say to the DA: You have to recognise that the SCZ programme is a programme of national government co-ordinated and implemented by national government, working together with the two spheres of government. [Applause.] We are running very successful special economic zones, SEZs, throughout the country in the Dube Trade Port, in Koega and the East London Industrial Development Zone, Elidz. So, we are now working on ensuring that Tshwane can become a modern automotive city.



This is not a programme of the DA in Tshwane; it is a programme of the national government. [Applause.] Chairperson, thank you vey much and thank you, hon Duma, for the point you have made because these SEZs will make sure that we absorb major numbers of the unemployed



around the townships of Mamelodi, Eersterust and Nellmapius. I thank you very much. [Applause.]



Mr D W MACPHERSON: Chairperson, in terms of Rule 132(5), Deputy Ministers and Ministers are only supposed to give a two-minute response. We are not here to have spinner speeches!



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Which clock are you looking at?



Mr D W MACPHERSON: From the Deputy Minister!



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hey, hon member, which clock are you looking at? Then your stopwatch is not working!



Mr D W MACPHERSON: No, I am not sure if your stop watch is not working, but ... [Interjections.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): What is your problem?



Mr D W MACPHERSON: ... his broke a long time ago! [Interjections]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): You must have been sleeping, hon member. He did less than two minutes. Thank you very much, hon members. That concludes the Ministerial Response. Am I right? [Interjections.] Ooh sorry!





Hawu Malandela! Hawu Malandela, sengishaye ngedolo!









(Minister’s Responses)



The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, I am responding to a very sad statement about the fatal murder of Congress of South African Students, Cosas, West Rand Subregion member, which was read out for us by hon Mananiso. Violence in South Africa knows no colour.



Violence against women and children knows no political space. Violence against women and children knows no status. Violence against women and children doesn’t choose who are or where you live, whether you are in Sandton or somewhere else.



As we approach the 16 Day of Activism Against Women and Children Abuse, which will be starting on 25 November to

10 December 2019, as a Department of Social Development we really call on us as members in this House to forget our differences. Forget the challenges and forget the noise that we are making in this House. Make sure that when we go back to our communities, especially at this time of festive season and all ... This is the worst time for women and children.



We call upon all of you members to work with us on this, because as I say, it doesn’t care where you are or who you are. Especially, I would like to call upon: The members of the House not to look away; the members of this House not to pretend like they can’t see it; and the members of this House to work with us house to house, family to family, community to community, and not make



this challenge a challenge only of government. It is a challenge of the entire society. It is a time for us to unite around this issue. Thank you very much. [Applause.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you, hon Minister.





Se ke ikopetse tshwarelo, mme Pandor.






(Minister’s Response)







BODITŠHABATŠHABA: Ke itumetse Modulasetilo. Ke ne ke maketse ke bona o kare o ntebetse. Motlhamongwe fa o bona mme MmaKhawula a tsholetsa letsogo fa o kopa diTona tse di batlang go bua, ka gongwe o ile wa nagana gore ke ene Tona, nna ga ke sa tlhola ke le yona. [Setshego.]






MODULASETULO WA NTLO (Mong M L D Ntombela): Eya ho ka nna ha etsahala. [Ditsheho.]





BODITŠHABATŠHABA: Mme ke leboga ka gore o gopotse, ke sa le teng. Modulasetilo, ke ema jaana ke rata go tlhagisa gore re itumetse thata ka se se builweng ke motl Tshabalala mabapi le Cuba. Re dumalana ka botlalo le kitso e e dirilweng ke dinaga tse di kopaneng, United Nations, e e laelang gore mokgwa o o makgwakgwa o o dirilweng mo nageng ya Cuba o emisiwe ke dinaga tse di kopaneng tsa America, gonne seno ga se tsamaelane le molao o o tsamaisang dinaga tsotlhe tsa lefatshe.



Rona re le maAforikaborwa, re kopa gore re ke re eme le baagi ba kwa Cuba gonne le bone ba ne ba ema le rona fa re lwantsha tlhaolele. Go leka go re thusa, ba ile ba romela masole a bone a a ileng a swela teng mo nageng ya rona.



Ka jalo, ke kopa gore rona re le baagi ba naga eno re se lebale batho ba Cuba gonne ba tshwaragane le mathata a le mantsi a a sa tshwanelang gore e nne mathata a bone. Re



le mokgatlho wa ANC re dumalana gape re ema le baagi botlhe ba lefatshe la Cuba go fitlha ntwa e re e lwanang e fela.



Seno se tla dira gore baagi ba Cuba banne le ditshwanelo tsa bona jaaka rona re le maAforikaborwa re na le tsona. Gape ke dumalana le moemedi wa Western Cape fa a re DA re tla e ntsha mo Western Cape. [Legofi.]



La bofelo, ke rata go kaya gore DA e ile ya re thusa thata fa ba ne ba tlhopha baetapele ba bona gonne seno se tla dira gore ANC e etelelepele mo Western Cape. Ke a leboga. [Legofi.]



Mr D W MACPHERSON: House Chairperson! House Chairperson, my watch was definitely not broken on that time. I think you really need to check the batteries of your watch because that was an extraordinary longer time than two minutes.



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Noted, hon member. Hon members, I think the purpose of the reply of a Minister is to address issues that have been raised,



and it is to the interest of all our communities to listen to what we are saying. [Interjections.]



Mr D W MACPHERSON: Chairperson! Chairperson!



The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Chairperson, on a point of order!



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Hon member, I am responding to you. I have noted you, hon Mazzone.



Mr D W MACPHERSON: Chairperson, in terms of the Rules, and in terms of Rule 132(5), it specifically states that Minister and Deputy Minister are confined to two minutes; it’s not a discretion of yours to decide how they can speak. That is what is in the Rules and that is what should be applied. [Applause.]



The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L D Ntombela): Thank you very much, hon member, I have noted it. Hon Mazzone, are you okay? Noted! Thank you very much.



Ministerial Responses concluded.







Mr N CAPA: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House debates-



the achieving transformation and development of the agricultural sector and the pertinent role the Land Bank plays as one of South Africa’s most important development finance institutions. I so move.



Agreed to.



Mr S NGCOBO: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:



That the House debates-



solutions to tackle youth unemployment in South Africa, which is fast becoming a major crisis given



that over 50% of young people across the country are currently unemployed. Thank you.



Agreed to.



Mr M K MONTWEDI: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:



That the House debates-



the CPA relevance as a best model for communal land ownership, as only five out of 300 CPA are compliant with the CPA Act. I so move.



Agreed to.



Ms N G ADDONS: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House debates-



delivering school infrastructure efficiently and cost effectively to address the backlogs and improve the quality of information used for planning and take learner safety into account. Thank you.



Agreed to.





Mnu X NGWEZI: Ngiyathokoza Sihlalo, egameni lombutho weNkatha omkhulu nonamandla ngokuhlala kweNdlu okulandelayo ngiyaphakamisa-



Ukuba le Ndlu-



ixoxe ngokuhluleka koMnyango wezeZindlu ukuhlinzeka abantu bakithi ngezindlu ngokukhulu ukushesha kanye namatayitela. Ngiyathokoza.



Agreed to.



Dr W J BOSHOFF: Hon House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the House I shall move on behalf of the FF-Plus:



That the House debates-



the importance of Judicial independence, the impartiality of Judges to decide honestly and in accordance with the law and evidence, without concern or fear or interference, control or improper influence from anyone. Thank you.



Agreed to.



Ms P P XABA: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House debates-



rising profile of the work and activities around linguistic matters of Cultural, Religious And Linguistic, CRL, Rights Commission, to ensure balance in work and activities around cultural and religious matters. Thank you.



Agreed to.



Mr W M THRING: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the House I shall move on behalf of the ACDP, noting that South Africa’s gross expenditure on research and development is decelerating:



That the House debates with urgency-



interventions needed to grow the various sectors of our South African economy by increasing our investment in research and development. I so move.



Agreed to.





Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo, kuba kufikelele ixesha lokuba amakhwenkwe aye entabeni, ndigunyaziswa ngumbutho wam i-UDM ukuba ndicebise ukuba xa iphinda ihlala-



Le Ndlu yoWiso-mthetho ithethe-



ngegmigaqo-nkqubo kunye nemiqathango enokulandelwa ukuqinisekisa ukuba abantwana abasweleki phaya entabeni. Ndiyabulela.



Agreed to.



Mr I S SEITHOLO: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:



That the House debates-



the reasons for the 14 years delay in completing the Rustenburg Rapid Transport Project. I so move.



Agreed to.



Mr M TSHWAKU: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:



That the House notes the following-



the State President this year august House sitting told the House members how convenient it is to register companies in South Africa. However, he did not mention that more than 60% of those companies are deregistered within two years of registration because they are unable to pay annual returns.



That the House-



debate the impact that the 2011 amended Companies Act had on the growth of small businesses. I so move.



Agreed to.



Ms M M GOMBA: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House debates-



tourism as a vehicle to expedite transformation and inclusive tourism growth that nurtures participation



of all South Africans in the mainstream economy. Thank you



Agreed to.



Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House deliberates-



on comprehensive sexuality education in south African schools and its implications on society. I so move.



Agreed to.






Mr S M KULA: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House-debates the lack of gender transformation and advancement of women in the mining industry as one of the means for economic emancipation.



Agreed to:



Mr L M NTSHAYISA: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the AIC:



That the House-debates on how the government can assist the taxi industry so as to contribute to the growth of our economy and grow their industry.



Agreed to:



Ms A H MTHEMBU: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House-debates maintaining and sustaining Thusong centres by integrating the approachive



government to service delivery in order to achieve the objectives of Thusong centres.



Agreed to.



Ms A M M WEBER: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:



That the House-debates the impact mining has on the country’s wetlands and predicted areas.



Agreed to.



The House adjourned at 18:53:44




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