Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised hansard

House: National Council of Provinces

Date of Meeting: 09 Dec 2016

Summary

No summary available.

Minutes

UNREVISED HANSARD

FRIDAY, 9 DECEMBER 2016

PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

The Council met at 09:33.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, I have been informed that the Whippery has agreed that there will be no notices of motion or motions without notice on the Order Paper today.

Before we proceed to the first motion on the Order Paper, I would like to afford the hon Ximbi the opportunity to make a statement in respect of the First Order on the Order Paper.

RECOMMENDATION FOR APPROVAL OF DRAFT NOTICE AND SCHEDULE REGARDING REMUNERATION OF MAGISTRATES

(Statement)

Mr D L XIMBI: Chairperson, section 12(1)(a) of the Magistrates Act, Act 90 of 1993 spells out the procedure for determining the salaries of magistrates. Magistrates are entitled to such salaries, allowances or benefits as determined by the President from time to time by notice in the Gazette, after taking into consideration the recommendations of the Independent Commission for the

of the Independent Commission for the Remuneration of Public Office Bearers Act, Act 92 of 1997 and approved by Parliament in terms of subsection 3.

Section 12(3)(a) provides for such a notice. As contemplated in section 12(1)(a), a notice issued under subsection(1)(a) must be submitted to Parliament for approval before publication thereof. On

8 December 2016, the Select Committee on Security and Justice received a briefing from the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development in relation to the proposed increases in the salaries of magistrates, as set out in a Draft Notice by the President that had to be approved by the National Council of Provinces.

For this financial year, the final recommendation was that magistrates should effectively receive an increase of 6% with effect from 1 April 2016. The total remuneration will include the following elements: a basic salary component equal to 70% of the total package, which constitutes the pensionable salary; pension benefit

contribution to the applicable pension fund; and a flexible portion for the remaining amount of the total package.

Therefore, the Select Committee on Security and Justice, having considered the Draft Notice and Schedule in terms of section 12(3) of the Magistrates Act, Act 90 of 1993 determining the rate at which salaries are payable to magistrates annually with effect from

April 2016 referred to it, recommends that the Council approve the Draft Notice and Schedule. Thank you, Chairperson.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, thank you very much for this opportunity. Our draft resolution reads as follows ...

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Chief Whip, please take your seat. Hon member?

Ms M P MOKGOSI: Modulasetilo, ke bona makgowa e le one fela a tshwere lenaane la dibui. Re kopa lenaane la dibui tsweetswee. [Chairperson, whites are the only ones having the speakers’ list; can we be given it as well, please?]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you, madam. That will be addressed. Please proceed, Chief Whip.

APPROVAL OF RATE OF SALARIES AND ALLOWANCES PAYABLE TO MAGISTRATES

(Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I move the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That the Council resolves, in terms of section 12(3)(a)(b) of the Magistrates Act, Act 90 of 1993, to approve in whole the determination by the President of the Republic of South Africa of the rate of salaries and allowances payable to Magistrates, as it appears in the Draft Notice and Schedule of 5 December 2016, tabled in the Council on 6 December 2016.

Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, I would just like to have an exact translation of what the member said to you. I did not read it, and I am quite upset that I heard something from one of the members. If it is what I heard, I would like clarity on that. I am definitely going to object. Could you help me, please?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: What the member said was that only the white members of the House seem have speakers’ lists in front of them – that the rest of the members wanted to have the speakers’ list in front of them too. My interpretation was not that she was being racist. It was simply that all the other members do not have speakers’ lists in front of them. That is why I said the matter must be attended to. If it was offensive, I will apologise to the House because I did not think it was offensive. It wasn’t meant to be offensive.

Question put: That the motion be agreed to.

IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Motion accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

SUSPENSION OF RULE 239(1)

(Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I move the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That Rule 239(1), which provides inter alia that the consideration of a Bill may not commence before at least three working days have lapsed since the committee’s report was tabled, be suspended for the purposes of consideration of the Adjustments Appropriation Bill and Finance Bill.

Question put: That the motion be agreed to.

IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Motion accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Mr S J MOHAI: Chairperson of the NCOP, special delegates, hon members, the Deputy Minister of Finance, hon Mcebisi Jonas, and guests in the gallery including my boys. The Minister of Finance tabled a Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement, MTBPS, on 26 October 2016 outlining the budget priorities of government for the medium- term estimates.

Central to the 2016 MTBPS, is the inclusive growth. This calls for partnerships through national dialogue on the critical issues that affects the nation; dealing with slow growth, inequality and poverty. The financing of policy choices reflected in the MTBPS is underpinned by the ANC-led government’s commitment to social and economic transformation.

In tabling the 2016 MTBPS and the Bills referred to above, the Minister of Finance, Pravin Gordhan, indicated that, I quote:

We face difficult choices about how best to use the limited resources we have, and how those resources will be shared in a time of great need.

The Minister went on to say that public funds must be spent for a common good. It is because that the 2016 MTBPS reflects that the financial resources of the state are being applied in a manner that reaffirms commitment to economic sustainability, stability and certainty.

What the 2016 MTBPS also reflects is that there will be no unmanageable debt. How the level debt is being managed is fundamental to the sustainability of the medium-term expenditure framework, MTEF.

Contrary to the views of the critics, our national debt is not high given that the aggregate amount of national debt has a lower foreign denomination currency component. This is very different from other emerging countries where you have high foreign denomination currency debt.

During these challenging times, we are however, having the NDP as our roadmap to rid the country of poverty and fight inequality.

Through the NDP as our roadmap, our national project is one. Building the nature and character of a national democratic society, one that reflects what we want for the future. This means working together with labour, business and civil society infusing our creativeness to make the economy more resilient.

For this reason, collaboration is very essential. Already, from these collaborations we have concrete agreements to address some of our major economic challenges. I must say we congratulate both the Minister and Deputy Minister of Finance for leading the country and criss-crossing the rest of the globe, and ensuring that investor confidence is reignited for our country.

We have strong economic institutions, which together with the policy choices we have made provide us with a more positive future. Within the context of making difficult choices, the MTBPS proposes a measured fiscal consolidation, reducing the expenditure ceiling by R10 billion next year and adding R13 billion in revenue measures.

Combined with the proposals announced during the 2016 national Budget, this will bring the total tax increase next year to R28 billion.

While the provincial equitable share is reduced by R500 million in the 2017-18 financial year, as a fiscal consolidation measure, social services being education and health are protected with

R7,2 billion added in the outer years. Universities and students will receive an additional R17 billion over the medium-term. Post- school education and training budgets are the fastest growing, with university subsidies increasing by 10,9% each year on average and NSFAS allocations growing by 18.5%.

In the 2016 MTBPS government continues to prioritise infrastructure investment to ease bottlenecks and raise the economy’s potential and growth rate. Public-sector infrastructure budgets are estimated at R987,4 billion over the MTEF period.

Some of the difficult choices that have been made within the 2016 MTBPS are reduction and reprioritisation of funds from certain grants due to underspending. The committee has however, expressed concerned because some of the grants are infrastructure-related and very essential to basic service delivery.

The National Development Plan visualised an economic growth of 5,4 while currently the GDP growth had slowed down but projected to grow by at least 0,5% this year. The committee is however confident that the currently allocations and measures put in place to transform and growth the economy will yield the expected results. Achievement of economic transformation and inclusive growth will however not result from a single intervention, but from a range of mutually supporting initiatives.

In many cases, this does not require new strategies, but better implementation of existing ones. As the ANC we believe that the 2016 MTBPS and adjustments outlined in the Appropriations Adjustment Bill support the financial management of the National Revenue Fund are in line with policy imperatives whilst reflecting a reduction in overall spending continue to create a conducive economic environment

and in no way impact on the core socioeconomic service delivery needs.

Together with the 2016 MTBPS is the 2016 Adjustment Appropriation Bill, which provides for issues of national importance. The Bill reallocates additional R71,3 million to the Department of Home Affairs due to unforeseeable and unavoidable expenditure when the local government election date was shifted from May to August 2016.

The Department of Basic Education received the additional R179,9 million for repairs and rehabilitation of schools, and

associated costs including for the provision of mobile classrooms, catch-up camps and the replacement of workbooks. The Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries received R212 million for procurement of animal feed for drought stricken areas.

The Department of Water and Sanitation received R290,7 million to package mobile desalination plant to be used in coastal areas. The Bill further provides R50,6 million to the department for water tankering and storage for drought stricken areas.

Hon Chairperson, to conclude, I want to acknowledge the constructive and robust engagements that we have in our committees with both the Minister and the Deputy Minister of Finance leading the National Treasury in engaging in this Bills. Also, I want to express appreciation of the participation of members, the support of some of

the committees and all the role-players that have responded during the public hearing stage. The timeframes were very tight, and in some cases the committee programme had to be adjusted at short notice. Members and support staff were, however, at all times combat-ready to deliver.

Going forward, the Finance and Appropriation Committee have already taken a position that the amendment of the Money Bills will be given a priority in their 2017 programme. This will enable the committees to amendment the Money Bills Act so that tight timeframes are addressed to enable the committees and provinces sufficient time to deal with the budget related Bills.

The committee resolved to support the proposed 2017-18 division of revenue as well as the conditional grants allocations to provinces and local government. We also agreed to support the 2016 Finance Bill without amendments; and lastly, to support the 2016 Adjustment Appropriation Bill without amendments. I thank you Chairperson.

Debate concluded.

Mr L B GAEHLER: Chairperson, I raise to declare this document as not proper, for instance, I did not object any Vote as the UDM. I got a copy of it here. This document is not a true reflection. Here is my copy to see. My party didn’t instruct me to object. Thank you.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Gaehler,

your point is taken. It is respected. What may appear in front of you, I am told it is just a guide. Any party can still stand up and say I object to a particular Vote or I no loner object. It will be within your rights to do so, sir. Hon Julius!

Vote No 1 – Presidency – put.

Division demanded.

Mr W F FABER: Can I just ask that we make it easier for ourselves as we divide and take our previous positions to make the process faster.

The Council divided:

AYES - 28: Chepape, T G; Chego, M S; De Beer, C J; Dlamini, L C; Makue, E R; Manopole, G M; Mateme, H E; Mhlanga, M T; Mlambo, E M; Mlombo, V; Mohai, S J; Mohapi, M J; Moshodi, M J; Motara, T; Mthethwa, J M; Nthebe, B G; Nzimande, L P M; Parkies, J P; Prins, E; Rayi, M; Sefako, O J; Shongwe, BT; Singh, A S; Sizani, S V; Stock, D; Thobejane, S G; Ximbi, D L; Zwane L L.

NOES - 10: Essack, F; Faber, W F; Hattingh, C; Julius, J W W; Labuschagne, C; Londt, J J; Magwebu, L V; Mpambo-Sibhukwana, T G; Obaray, I; Terblanche, O S.

ABSTAIN – 3: Gaehler, L B; Khawula, M; Ngwenya D B.

Question agreed to.

Vote No 3 – Communications – put.

Declarations of Vote:

Mr M KHAWULA: Chairperson, the IFP wishes to state that this department is in a crisis, in fact, because of the political leadership of the department when the Minister was actually here she was not even taking us serious. She was laughing at the serious issues that we were raising with her, and right now we have this ad hoc committee that is dealing with the issues there, also because the Minister has a contribution to what is happening. She is not serious and not taking matters seriously and this has been going on for far too long.

As the IFP we wish to state that there must be some kind of reigning in at the communication department so that it actually represent the people of South Africa; and also begins to take the financial issues in the department seriously as well as the government issues serious and also the running of the matters of the SABC should be taken seriously; because right now the department, especially the SABC is in a crisis. There must be some order. Thank you.

Ms E PRINS: Chairperson, the ANC is committed to extending a expanding access to information and increasing local content in this regard. We are committed to good governance and in line with this wish to see the stabilisation of the SABC in relation to its board and leadership. All the developing and developed countries have a responsibility to educate, inform and entertain its citizens in a manner that tells true stories of who and what we are.

In this regard, we support the SABC endeavours to expand infrastructure so that local content can be produced.

Notwithstanding the problems which have faced the public broadcaster we are of the views that given the necessary support and leadership the SABC will rich its envisaged purpose and role. The ANC supports the Adjustment Budget Vote No 3. Thank you.

Mr J W W JULIUS: Chairperson, I agree with the hon Khawula that the leadership at the SABC is a serious concern. Mr Hlaudi Motsoeneng must be axed with immediate effect from all positions in the SABC. Despite the High Court ruling that found Mr Hlaudi Motsoeneng unfit, Minister Muthambi and the ANC are still defending him to stay in his position. These are typical elements of state capture. Hlaudi Motsoeneng has a mandate from the master of state capture, President Zuma himself to turn the public broadcaster into a state propaganda machine.

All this happen while the ANC members in Parliament and specifically in the NCOP continue to support this department. The ANC Youth League continued support for Motsoeneng is further proof of this.

Worse of all is that the ANC youth league in KwaZulu-Natal announced last week its support for Motsoeneng to be a Minister in 2019, again voters cannot wait to punish the ANC for this. The ANC has clearly lost all moral compasses, which is why the single board member is defying Parliament and the Public Protector because of the ANC. The DA cannot support this Budget Vote. Thank you, Chairperson.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you. Is there any other party that wishes to make a declaration? None.

Division demanded.

The Council divided.

AYES - 29: Chepape, T G; Chego, M S; De Beer, C J; Dlamini, L C; Makue, E R; Manopole, G M; Mateme, H E; Mhlanga, M T; Mlambo, E M; Mlombo, V; Mohai, S J; Mohapi, M J; Moshodi, M J; Motara, T; Mthethwa, J M; Nthebe, B G; Nyambi, A J; Nzimande, L P M; Parkies, J P; Prins, E; Rayi, M; Sefako, O J; Shongwe, BT; Singh, A S; Sizani, S V; Stock, D; Thobejane, S G; Ximbi, D L; Zwane L L.

NOES -14: Essack, F; Faber, W F; Gaehler, L B; Hattingh, C; Julius, J W W; Koni, NP; Khawula, M; Labuschagne, C; Londt, J J; Magwebu, L V; Mpambo-Sibhukwana, T G; Ngwenya D B; Obaray, I; Terblanche, O S.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).

VOTE No 4 - Co-Operative Governance and Traditional Affairs

Declarations of Vote:

Mr M J MOHAPI: Chairperson, the Adjustment Appropriation Bill provides for increases or decreases to allocation set out in the main appropriation act including shifts in the projected economic classification of the spending.

There are different aspects of the Adjustment Appropriation Bill which included unforeseeable and unavoidable expenditure virement, rollovers, self-financing expenditure and declared unspent funds. The sum of these adjustments has led to a total downward adjustment of the budget by R9,6 billion. Most of the downward adjustment came from an unspent contingency reserve, projected underspending and repayment by local governments into the national revenue fund.

In terms of section 30(2g) of the Public Finance Management Act, the Minister may table an adjustment budget when necessary.

Chairperson, in respect of the Adjustment Appropriation Bill, particularly Vote No 4, which deals with Co-Operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, the municipal demarcation transition indirect grant received a rollover of R27,9 million.

Members of the NCOP will remember, that there are grants subsidise the additional institutional and administrative costs that arise from major boundary changes that came into effect in the time of local government elections. There were several boundary changes that came into effect on the date of 2016 Local Government Elections reducing the total number of municipalities in the country from 278 to 257.

The object of the Appropriation Bill encourages all of us particularly because of the challenges of slow-economic growth, local governments to tighten their seat belts and learn to do more with less and to prevent wastage.

Newly elected municipal councils are responsible for drawing up Integrated Development Plans, IDPs that will guide their investment over the next five years. Giving budgetary constraints, all municipalities need to focus on more efficient spending and value for money to improve basic service delivery.

The ANC welcomes the launch of the Municipal Money Website. The Municipal Money Website is an initiative of National Treasury which

has collected expensive municipal finance data over several years and we would like to share this information with the public. The aim is to make this data widely available in order to increase transparency scientific civic oversight and promote accountability,

The South African system of local government is contingent on the active citizens and organised civil society vigilantly excising oversight and holding their municipalities accountable. Municipal money aims to promote transparency and citizen’s engagement through visualisation and demystification of information about municipal spending.

It is based on this background that the ANC support the Adjustment Appropriation Bill and recommends that it be passed to meet the immediate government spending requirements.

The Chairperson of the NCOP: Is there any other party that wishes to make a declaration on vote 4? None. We therefore proceed to the voting. The DA calls for a division.

Mr W F FABER: Yes.

The Chairperson of the NCOP: Thank you very much, we are already divided. You do corate to call for a division.

Mr W F FABER: If I can just get clarity on one process – while we are busy with the total Bill, are the doors closing when we start with voting till right at the end? Because it seems through the years things are changing.

I would like to have clarity, are the doors closed in the beginning and then only at the end of all the Bills open again; or are they opened between every Bill while people are doing declarations?

Because, there has has been no consistency over the years on this. I need to know. Thank you.

The Chairperson of the NCOP: Order members. Hon members, when we started with Vote No 4, any movement, in or out, will then not be encouraged. I think we have got to be very clear that today we have got a very interesting situation.

I got a note a bus from one village is still not here, the roads are flooded and members are not here. It is not their doing. However, what we must be clear on is that once we have started with a vote and you leave that, that vote cannot be counted or you cannot be allowed to come in whilst we are busy with a vote, so that we are not punitive when we don’t need to be punitive.

If you noticed with the first vote that we dealt with, the numbers are not the same because we only allowed members to come in after we

had finished with the results of that. So there has not been any ... [Interjections.]

Mr W F FABER: In the previous years and I am talking from 2009 and I don’t want to say things were right then, but what happened was, in the beginning when we were dealing with vote 1, the doors were closed right through to the end. There were never opened till the last vote was finished. So, for that reason I just want clarity for myself please.

The Chairperson of the NCOP: I thought I heard you and I thought I was trying to be as accommodative as I can. If hon members are not at work and it is only their fault maybe we can go back to that.

I remember at one point we sat here and we practised that rule and an hon member could not even go out and she actually messed herself up because we refused ... [Interjections.] ... no; it’s not a joke! One then needed to rethink and say – do you – is it, was it what the rule intended that people can’t even be allowed to go out to the toilet and then miss that vote in the counting. Because the fact that nature calls you and you are not in the House, does not guarantee that we will count that vote because we will count the vote that is in the House. But that vote cannot walk in the middle of the voting process and be counted that we will not do. Hon Khawula, are you still on this matter?

Mr M KHAWULA: Chairperson, thank you very much for allowing me. I just want to go down memory lane to say, maybe you will need to apply your mind so that consistency doesn’t suffer because in 2014, the hon Mtileni was locked out of the House and he was the only member of the EFF that was in on that day. He went out and when we started he was still outside, he couldn’t come in for the whole voting process.

I am just saying, Chairperson, so that maybe when you take decisions we don’t comeback to you to say you do this on this day and another on the other day.

The Chairperson of the NCOP: Thank you. That will be taken into consideration and thank you for reminding us of what happened in the past.

Division demanded.

Council divided.

AYES – 30: Chepape, T G; Chego, M S; De Beer, C J; Dlamini, L C; Gaehler, L B; Makue, E R; Manopole, G M; Mateme, H E; Mhlanga, M T; Mlambo, E M; Mlombo, V; Mohai, S J; Mohapi, M J; Moshodi, M J; Motara, T; Mthethwa, J M; Nthebe, B G; Nyambi, A J; Nzimande, L P M; Parkies, J P; Prins, E; Rayi, M; Sefako, O J; Shongwe, BT; Singh, A S; Sizani, S V; Stock, D; Thobejane, S G; Ximbi, D L; Zwane L L.

NOES -13: Essack, F; Faber, W F; Hattingh, C; Julius, J W W; Koni, N P; Labuschagne, C; Londt, J J; Magwebu, L V; Mpambo-Sibhukwana,T G; Ngwenya D B; Smit, C B F; Obaray, I; Terblanche, O S.

ABSTAIN – 1: Khawula, M.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting). Vote No 5 – Home Affairs – put.

Division demanded.

The Council divided.

AYES - 31: Chepape, T G; Chego, M S; De Beer, C J; Dlamini, L C; Gaehler, L B; Khawula, M; Makue, E R; Manopole, G M; Mateme, H E; Mhlanga, M T; Mlambo, E M; Mlombo, V; Mohai, S J; Mohapi, M J; Moshodi, M J; Motara, T; Mthethwa, J M; Nthebe, B G; Nyambi, A J; Nzimande, L P M; Parkies, J P; Prins, E; Rayi, M; Sefako, O J; Shongwe, BT; Singh, A S; Sizani, S V; Stock, D; Thobejane, S G; Ximbi, D L; Zwane L L.

NOES - 14: Engelbrecht, B; Essack, F; Faber, W F; Hattingh, C; Julius, J W W; Labuschagne, C; Londt, J J; Magwebu, L V; Mpambo- Sibhukwana,T G; Ngwenya D B; Obaray, I; Smit, C B F; Terblanche, O S.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).

Vote No 6 – International Relations and Co-operation – put.

Declarations of vote made on behalf of the African National Congress and Inkatha Freedom Party.

Declaration of vote:

Mr E MAKUE: Hon Chairperson, for the ANC the international relations and international co-operation is very important. Part of our liberation struggle was to end that tradition where we were the pariah of the world, as Comrade Nelson Mandela called it. We are mindful that our diplomatic footprint is very important for us particularly at this time when we celebrate the internationalism that we have been taught by the late Commandant Fidel Castro from Cuba.

We noted with concern when the Department of International Relations and Co-operation presented its budget to the select committee that there were some qualifications that our attention was drawn to. This was primarily – and I think it is important for everyone to know - because of the difficulties with the valuations of the properties and in particular the pictures that exist in more than 120 embassies in all parts of the world.

We are mindful Chairperson that there are also the currency fluctuations that have an impact on exactly how this very important

Department of International Relations and Co-operation represents our country and its people in other parts of the world. We know that there are concerted attempts by the department to introduce cost- saving measures and commend them for that but also commend the department for the assurance that they have given us for closer co- operation and assistance from the attorney-general’s office in order to deal with the challenges of accounting that exist within the Department of International Relations and Co-operation.

We are proud, Chairperson, that because of the work of this department, we will be participating as team South Africa in the World Economic Forum and look at the economic interests of our country so that we can enhance the objectives of this government to deal with unemployment, poverty and inequality. And it is also through the work of our embassies and our ambassadorial staff that we are proudly participating in Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa, Brics, and also in the G20. Therefore the ANC felt it is important that we should emphasise the reason why we support this budget of the Department of International Relations and Co- operation. Thank you, Chair.

Mr M KHAWULA: Hon Chairperson, the IFP has few concerns in respect of our international relations: Firstly, South Africa has too many foreign missions abroad and they are running at exorbitant costs to the taxpayers. The costs that the country pays to run these foreign missions does not equate to returns the country is getting.

Therefore, the IFP is calling for an audit of what we still need and what is no longer strategic to the country so that we scale down on the costs to run these missions.

Secondly, the IFP is concerned that more often than not our foreign missions are used as a dumping ground for the failing public representatives who have failed elsewhere in the country and then dumped into some of these foreign missions. How can someone who has failed somewhere in the country go and succeed when taken to a foreign mission? This is just to give those people jobs. Our foreign missions are now not very different from the food parcels whereby if you have a particular card you can benefit and if you do not have the card you cannot.

So, the IFP says the department must look into all those things so that our foreign missions are contributing to the growth of the economy of the country. They are important, but we need to scale down and we need to look at those that are no longer strategic and scale down on the costs. Thank you very much.

Division demanded.

The Council divided.

AYES - 31: Chepape, T G; Chego, M S; De Beer, C J; Dlamini, L C; Gaehler, L B; Khawula, M; Makue, E R; Manopole, G M; Mateme, H E;

Mhlanga, M T; Mlambo, E M; Mlombo, V; Mohai, S J; Mohapi, M J; Moshodi, M J; Motara, T; Mthethwa, J M; Nthebe, B G; Nyambi, A J; Nzimande, L P M; Parkies, J P; Prins, E; Rayi, M; Sefako, O J; Shongwe, BT; Singh, A S; Sizani, S V; Stock, D; Thobejane, S G; Ximbi, D L; Zwane L L.

NOES -14: Engelbrecht, B; Essack, F; Faber, W F; Hattingh, C; Julius, J W W; Labuschagne, C; Londt, J J; Magwebu, L V; Mpambo- Sibhukwana,T G; Ngwenya D B; Obaray, I; Smit, C B F; Terblanche, O S.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).

Vote No 7 – National Treasury – put.

Vote agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Vote No 8 - Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation – put

Declaration of vote:

Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: Madam Chair, this department budget has radically increased from its humble budget of R208 million in the 2014-15 year budget to this year R717,7 million. This department and Minister Jeff Radebe’s responsibility is to ensure that relevant actions and targets in the Medium-Term Strategic Framework, MTSF, are reflected in the performance agreements of Ministers.

Unfortunately, transparency in terms of our Ministers performance is nonexistent. The hard-pressed taxpayer will never know how or if ever the performances of Ministers are ever measured, like many other secret ANC missions only the President can decide whether to be transparent on the important issue of evaluating a Minister’s work and the value of a Minister’s contribution to the taxpayer. It has become clear that our President has no intention of divulging the efficiency of his many trusted henchman.

In spite of the increasing budget, most departments and their Ministers continue to give lacklustre performances at the expense of service delivery. One of Minister Radebe’s most difficult tasks is charring the Inter-Ministerial Committee on information and publicity where he is expected to give a positive spin on the government’s parchy performance, a particularly challenging job these days.

Unfortunately, Minister Radebe, has been so busy playing the role of a spin doctor that he hardly ever attends the Portfolio Committee of Public Service and Administration or the Portfolio Committee of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation, as the government and the President have lurched from one crisis to the other.

Focus should be on the elimination of weaknesses in the various departments that exasperate the overall effectiveness, efficiency, impact and sustainability of government performance.

Due to the above-mentioned lack of performance, especially in terms of the evaluation of the different Ministers, the DA cannot support this budget Vote. Thank you.

Ms G M MANOPOLE: Chair, in recognising the fact that there is a need to identify the effects of disrupters of the policy adjustment to enhance service delivery in order to arrest such potential disturbalisers, the department must work tirelessly to deal with those elements.

To ensure successful implementation of government plans, such factors are fighting corruption and building capacity as we are building developmental state. Furthermore, and very important to enhance service delivery, Operation Phakisa, which is there to fast- track the implementation plans of the cross-cutting issues are therefore very important and pivotal for ensuring that the department, after monitoring, implementing and observing that those disturbing are arrested and to ensure that service delivery is fast- tracked. Therefore, as an ANC Chairperson, we do support this important department Vote. Thank you.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).

Vote No 9 – Public Enterprise – put.

Declaration of vote:

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Hon Chairperson, the Department of Public Enterprises can be crowned as the department of state capture. Although the department itself does not control the funding of the entities, it is the stakeholder and automatically a watchdog over the behaviour and conduct of these state-owned enterprises.

According to the report of the former Public Protector, our state- owned enterprises, SOEs, have a lot to answer for, but equally the Department of Public Enterprises needs to take responsibility for not acting against those entities allowing things to progress as far as they have. It is difficult to believe that the Department of Public Enterprises officials on some levels could not have known about issues of capture.

Indeed, the ANC Cabinet and the executive have further decided to place the SOEs in hands of the master of state capture, President Jacob Zuma. More power is given to him to create structures and mechanism to utilise the state coffers to the benefits of friends and pals in positions.

The ANC’s abuse of state-owned enterprises reminds me of a story of a little Red Riding Hood. They established the perception of caring for the vulnerable and the poor, but the opposite is the truth. This

department should not exist, especially that now it is responsible for only five SOEs. The DA does not support this Vote.

Mr J P PARKIES: Hon Chair, South Africa is one of the countries that are characterised by dual characteristics of development and underdevelopment. With the growing population and high level of unemployment and inequalities, state parastatals represent ...

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Please, do not drown out this member. You are protected.

Mr J P PARKIES: ... a powerful device for economic development and inclusive growth to enrich the livelihood of our people in the land. Central to the workings of the state entities should be efficiency and effective accountability about the public resources that are not for personal enrichment, but job creation, skills development and drive deeper transformation in our country.

Let us averse Chair, that those state entities that are doing well must continue to do well and those that are shrivelled should firm up their activities in the best interest of our people. We support this Vote as the ANC.

Division demanded.

The Council divided.

NOES -14: Engelbrecht, B; Essack, F; Faber, W F; Hattingh, C; Julius, J W W; Labuschagne, C; Londt, J J; Magwebu, L V; Mpambo- Sibhukwana,T G; Ngwenya D B; Obaray, I; Smit, C B F; Terblanche, O S.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).

Vote No 10 - Public Service and Administration – put.

Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: Madam Chair, fortunately the DA is always prepared to read its declarations not like the ANC ... [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Are you objecting? Before we get to ... [Interjections.]

Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: We are objecting, Madam Chair.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Your objection has been noted. You can proceed with your declaration.

Declarations of vote:

Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: Madam Chair, fortunately we are ready and prepared for our declarations, unlike hon Parkies, writing down on the slips of attendance register for his notes. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Honourable, that is really under the belt; it is very personal and I think you really do not want to go there. Please proceed with your declaration.

Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: Madam Chair, the core mandate of this department is to accelerate the speed of service delivery at a reduced cost by ensuring that qualified and skilled people work in conducive environments that will result in efficient service delivery by this government.

It would seem that this department no longer understand its mandate, instead, it has adopted a culture of wasteful expenditure such as the purchase of vehicles to the value of R2,2 million and furniture to the value of R4,5 million. Further, South Africa’s membership in the Open Government Partnership is a farce and we can only wonder what the benefit of this partnership would bring to the poor people of our country since much of the additional R2,5 million will be spent on flights and delight to places like New York.

Throwing in an additional R16 million into the National School of Government will also not improve the quality of its training programmes or be cost effective. It is clear from this that none of the requests that additional funding will aid in the acceleration of the government speed or the quality of service delivery. Instead, what will happen is that the money which is meant to improve the quality of life of our people will be redirected into projects which serve no benefit to our people. It is for this reason that the DA cannot support this amended budget. I thank you.

Mr S G THOBEJANE: Chairperson ...

Mme, leloko le le hlomphegago le le fetšago go bolela, mohlomongwe ga le dule mo Afrika-Borwa ka gore go fihla ka nako ye go bontšha gore tshepedišo ya setšhaba e a šoma, le megwanto e išitšwe fase. Naga ye ga e sa bona megwanto yeo e bego e e bona. Go bonagala gabotse gore ditirelo di thoma go fihlela bathong; di fetola maphelo a batho. Taba ya gore bašomi ba mmušo ba agelwa dikantoro, ga a e bone. Yena o re ge a lebetše sekolo sa mmušo sa bosetšhaba a re ga a bone se se diregago.

Go šupa gore mahlo a bona ga a lebelele dilo tše di phethagatšwago, ba lebelela tše di ba kgahlago fela gobane ge bašomi ba mmušo ba hlahliwa nako le nako, ba ba maemong a botse gomme ba kgona go fa ditirelo tša maleba. Ge o lebeletše, le yona tekanyetšo ye a bolelago ka yona, go a bonagala gore ke ye nnyane go ka kgontšha

mmušo gore o hlahle bašomi ba wona; ba kgone go fihlelela dinyakwa tša setšhaba sa Afrika-Borwa. Ke ka lebaka leo ANC e rego re tšwele pele re thekge tekanyetšo ya kgoro. Ke a leboga. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)

[Madam, maybe the honourable member who has just spoken doesn’t live in South Africa because there is evidence of service delivery, even the service delivery protests have subsided. We don’t see many protests like we used to see before. This is evident enough that the services have reached the people; the services are changing people’s lives. She cant notice that there are offices that are being built for government employees. She said she doesnt see any delivery by the national school of government.

We can see that they choose what they want to see but not what is being done because government employees receive regular training that equips them with the relevant skills to enable them to do the job competently. The budget she is talking about is not enough for capacitating government employees; to enable them to deliver the services to the people of South Africa. That is the reason why the ANC is calling for the support on the department’s budget. Thank you.]

Mr M KHAWULA: Hon Chairperson, the IFP is concerned with the report that some public servants are abusing sick leave, particularly on Fridays and Mondays, and through this the state is losing a lot of

money and a great deal of manpower hours. It is also reported that some unscrupulous doctors are involved in issuing fraudulent sick certificates. We call for this to be investigated because through this the country is losing production hours and also service delivery is being adversely affected.

The IFP acknowledges that the Public Service Commission continues to do excellent work in terms of its investigations and the recommendations aimed at assisting our public service to operate in a responsive manner and for us to arrive at becoming a capable state. But the Public Service Commission does need greater teeth and therefore we say it is no use for them to produce these excellent recommendations when they are not going to be implemented.

Therefore, something needs to be done so as to empower the Public Service Commission to be able to do more on their recommendations. Thank you very much, hon Chairperson. Hon Mohai, control yourself.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).

Vote No 11 - Public Works – put.

Declarations of vote:

Mr L B GAEHLER: Chairperson, the UDM is concerned about the irregular, reckless, fruitless and unauthorised expenditure. These monies are intended to improve the socioeconomic conditions of the

most vulnerable in our society: the women, the youth, the disabled, and the rural poor.

The department must adjust its lack of capacity with regard to the risk management and internal audit section. These are strategic support functions created to assist the department in order to discharge its responsibilities.

The Extended Public Works Programme produced a part of 11 000 work opportunities as against more than 8 million unemployed poor citizens. The government is very much unlikely to achieve that target of creating 6 million job opportunities if this department is not playing its strategic central role.

The department must urgently consider disposing off residential properties currently occupied by the public. The department is not in business of residential property ownership and must leave that space. Transformation in the built environment must get urgent attention given the bulk of the budget going to a few nonblack construction companies. Further recommendations in this regard I suppose, it would be important for the department to pay maximum attention to those recommendations in their report. I thank you.

Mnu M RAYI: Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo, siyi-ANC siyaluxhasa olu ngezelelo lohlahlo-lwabiwo-mali. Eli sebe liqinisekisa ukuba ulwakhiwo lukhona kwaye urhulumente nguye owenza ukuba umhlaba ube

phantsi kwakhe. Ikwa leli sebe eliqinisekisa ukuba zikhona iindawo zokuhlala. Ohloniphekileyo uGaehler besinaye kutyelelo lwephondo ebesinalo eMpuma Koloni, ingakumbi kumhlaba waseMbizana. Ubonile ukuba phaya bekuqhuma uthuli, kwakhiwa iindlela. Kumaphondo onke aseMzantsi Afrika kuyakhiwa, kuxakekiwe ngenxa yeli sebe liqinisekisa ukuba kuyasetyenzwa.

Kulo nyaka, eli sebe lijolise ukwenza isigidi esinama-300 samathuba emisebenzi kwaye likwiphulo lokuqinisekisa ukuba eli nani liyafumaneka kulo nyaka. Siqhube kakuhle kakhulu kunyaka-mali wama- 2015-16 kuba sikwazile ukusebenzisa ama-99,45 ekhulwini kuhlahlo- lwabiwo-mali ebesinalo. Kwiinyangana nje ezintandathu ezigqithileyo sime kwisiqingatha ekusebenziseni uhlahlo-lwabiwo-mali lwesebe kwaye siqinisekile ukuba xa kuphela lo nyaka-mali sakube siyiphumeze yonke imida ebesizisikele yona. Ngoko ke Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo, siyi-ANC siyaluxhasa olu hlahlo-lwabiwo-mali. Enkosi. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Mr M RAYI: Hon Chairperson, as the ANC we support this supplementary budget. This department ensures that there is construction and that government administers land. It is also this department that ensures that people have a place to stay. Hon Gaehler was present during our provincial visit to the Eastern Cape, especially to Mbizana. He saw the dust rising there because of the road construction work that is happening. In all the provinces of

South Africa people are busy with construction work, because of this department that ensures that there is work.

This year, the department has set itself the target of creating 1,3 million job opportunities and is on a campaign to ensure that it reaches the target this year. We did very well during the 2015-16 financial year because we managed to spend 99,45% of our budget.

Just in the past six months we have spent half of our department’s budget and we have made sure that by the end of this financial year we will have met all our goals. Therefore, hon Chairperson, as the ANC we support this budget vote. Thank you. [Applause.]]

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting)

Vote No 12 – Statistics South Africa – put and agreed to.

Vote No 13 – Women – put.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Vote No 14 – Basic Education – put.

Declarations of vote:

Mr C HATTINGH: Voorsitter, op 14 November 2016, tydens ’n konferensie wat deur die Minister van Basiese Onderwys byeengeroep

is oor die sogenaamde vordering wat gemaak is in die lewering van skoolinfrastruktuur ingevolge die regulasies oor die minimum en eenvormige norms en standaarde vir openbare skole se infrastruktuur is die kritieke situasie in ons skole weereens beklemtoon. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

{Mr C HATTINGH: Chairperson on 14 November 2016, during a conference called by the Minister of Basic Education regarding the so-called progress made in delivering school infrastructure in terms of the regulations concerning the infrastructure of minimum and uniform norms and standards for public schools, the critical situation in our schools was once again emphasised.]

It appears that, for the Minister, double standards are the norm when she makes utterances on minimum norms and standards in our schools. On the one side is the stark contrast between the idealistic picture she portrays to the world, and on the other side the reality of the shocking state of our schools, as witnessed by us as NCOP members during our recent oversight visits.

Following hot on the heels of the 2015 Trends in International Mathematics and Science study, indicating that South Africa has one of the worst education systems in the world, South Africa was ranked last out of 48 countries. A condonation was issued in which all schools are instructed to promote senior level learners – Grade 7, 8 and 9 – who achieve only 20% for maths in 2016. Up until now,

learners have had to achieve a 40% mark for maths in order to proceed to the next Grade – totally contrary to the NDP, which states that 90% of learners in Grades 3, 6 and 9 must achieve 50% or more in mathematics.

The DA cannot, with a Minister completely in denial about the South African education crisis, the impact of Sadtu, South African Democratic Teachers’ Union, on education through its quest to capture education, and with the quality of education in a downward spiral, support the Basic Education budget. I thank you.

Nk L L ZWANE: Sihlalo, siyakwamukela ukuthi umbuso oholwa nguKhongolose ubone kubalulekile ukuthi uMnyango Wezemfundo uthole isabelomali esiphezulu kunayo yonke eminye iMinyango. Loku kungenxa yobubanzi boMnyango nangobuningi bezidingo esizidingayo ngaphansi woMnyango weMfundo Eyisisekelo. Ngiyafuna ukuthi uMnyango Wezemfundo usebunzimeni, kusazothatha isikhathi ukuthi sithole isabelomali esanele ukuthi sibhekele zonke izidingo zoMnyango weMfundo Eyisisekelo. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[Mrs L L ZWANE: Chairperson, we welcome the fact that the ANC-led government saw the importance of allocating a bigger share of the budget to the Department of Basic Education than all other departments. This is because of the massiveness of its functions and services that are needed under this department. I want to say that the Department of Basic Education is in crisis, it will take a long

time for this department to get an appropriate budget that would be able to stand for all the needs of this department.]

We inherited a legacy from the apartheid government that actually swamped the education of the black child. It will take years for us to mop up the mess. So, please be patient and wait for us.

Ms L C DLAMINI: Chairperson, on a point of order: I just want to check, is it parliamentary for hon Hattingh to say ?Nkandla government??

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: May I rule? Hon members, hon Hattingh knows there is no Nkandla government. When members want to make you lose track of your speech they will hurl whatever it is that will make you ... in Afrikaans they say ?dit laat jou tong bietjie struikel.? [To get tongue-tied.] That is what he is doing. And I think that members should learn to concentrate on what they are saying, despite being howled at.

Ms L L ZWANE: There are parties in this House that don’t have a debate, except to refer to Nkandla or state capture – nothing else. The day that is sorted they will have nothing to say.

Izinsizakufundisa zithunyelwa mahhala ezikoleni. [Educational facilities are received free of charge in schools.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Please do not

drown this member out, hon Julius.

Nk L L ZWANE: Abafundi abaningi sebeyakwazi ukufinyelela ezikhungwini zemfundo ngenxa yokuthi uhulumeni okhona ubonelele ukuthi akubekhona izimoto ezihambisa izingane ezikhokhelwa nguhulumeni. Izingane ezikoleni ziphekelwa mahhala okungenzeka ukuthi kweminye imindeni ehlwephu loko kudla izingane ezikuthola esikoleni yikona kodwa ukudla kosuku.

Izindlu zokufundela zakhiwa mahhala nguhulumeni. Siyazi ukuthi ziseyiningi izifundazwe lapho kufuneka sifinyelele khona njengokuthi nje KwaZulu-Natali esifundeni saseMzinyathi saya koFundokuhle, Emacityana, koDlabesuthe sathola ukuthi kusafuneka izindlu zokufundela eziningi kuhlanganisa kanye nama-laboratories kanye nemitapo yolwazi. Saya koEastern Cape koKhwezilokusa, koTshembeni, koMzamo esifundeni saseLady Frere sathola ukuthi izingane ziyaphekelwa futhi ziyadla kodwa kusafuneka izindlu ezingamakhishi ukuze ukuphekelwa kwezingane kuhambe kahle kube ngaphansi kwemigomo efanele yezempilo.

Saya eLimpopo eTshipakoni, eMashau naseMasia sathola ukuthi lamagumbi okufundela ayeshisiwe uMnyango weZemfundo usufaka amanye amakilasi esikhashana. Ngifuna ukuthi ke umsebenzi owenziwa uMnyango wezeMfundo Eyisisekelo uyabonakala. Ngakho-ke sinazo zonke izizathu

njengoKhongolose ukuseseka lesabiwomali. Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.]

(Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Mrs L L ZWANE: Many learners can now easily get to schools because the government of the day has afforded them with free school transport. Nowadays children get free meals at school which might be the only meals of the day for the children who are from the poor families.

The government is building free classrooms. We know that there are many provinces that we still need to reach – like KwaZulu-Natal, we went to the Mzinyathi district where we went to schools like Fundokuhle, Emacityana, Dlabesuthe where we found that there is a need for many classrooms including laboratories as well as libraries. We went to the Eastern Cape in the Lady Frere district, in schools like Khwezilokusa, Tshembeni, Mzamo and found that children get meals but there is still a need for the provision of kitchen structures where these meals are going to be prepared in hygienic conditions.

We also went to Limpopo to visit schools like Tshipakoni, Mashau and Masia when we got there we saw that the Department of Basic Education had put in place temporary classrooms to replace those that were burnt. By stating all this I am pointing out that the work of the Department of Basic Education is noticeable. Therefore, we

have all the reasons as the ANC to support this budget. Thank you. [Applause.]]

Mr L B GAEHLER: Chairperson, the UDM supports the budget. Maybe we need to remind ourselves as a nation what the purpose of our education today is. In answering this important question we are forced to look at higher education in total isolation from the purpose of education in general.

As we transform our society we need to look at higher education and education in general as a necessary enabler and support to our total socioeconomic goal as a society. If we are involved in a radical economic transformation, surely we should prepare our people who take over the economy of their country. Education is a fundamental necessity for success in this noble agenda.

It must be rejected that we have so many graduates who are sitting at home with inappropriate qualifications that do not respond to the needs of our economy. Some would have decided to study towards certain disciplines, not by deliberate choice, but due to a lack of access to relevant study areas that are critical to the skills gap in our economy. We need to consider the creation of a single and seamless education system with an interface at levels from early childhood development to higher education. We should go for a career education system that produces ready entrepreneurs. If we understand and accept education as an integral part of broader transformation

projects, as defined by the Education Charter, issues of funding its underlying principles, matters and content shall be resolved. Thank you.

Mr M KHAWULA: Chairperson, the IFP continues to be concerned about the fact that, after 22 years of democracy, education in our country continues to be quality for those who can afford it and poor education for those who cannot afford it. This is a state of affairs that must be attended to. The department must improve so that education is the same throughout the country. A child who is in the rural areas, a child who is in a township must receive equal education to a child who is in a suburb, in a city, in a town.

Secondly, we want to commend the hon Minister for having the guts to constitute a commission of enquiry into the issue of the selling of posts. Now the report is out and we as the IFP are glad that what we have always been saying, that there is a union that is controlling education out there, this has been proven by this report. Posts have been bought in some instances in certain quarters of the country.

Lastly, ...

... siyacela uMnyango kukhona loluhlelo okuthiwa phecelezi- recapitalisation, bakithi akezingavalwa phela izikole bese izingane zihlale emakhaya. Akuthi uma uMnyango uthatha isinqumo lesi esingaphusile sokuvala izikole ngenxa yokuthi izingane zincane noma

izikole zisondelene nokunye nokunye, nalezi okuthiwa zingama-Junior primary kufuneka ziye kulezi ezingama-Senior primary - inkinga isekutheni isikole sizovalwa bese izingane zinganikezwa ezokuthutha ngoba izikole ezinye zikude. Kutholakale izingane sezihlezi emakhaya ngenxa yokuthi uMnyango uthathe isinqumo sokuvala isikole kungekho izinhlelo ezenziwe ukuthi uma kuvalwa isikole izingane zizokwenzekani. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[... we also request the department not to close down schools when implementing the recapitalisation programme – good people do not shutting down schools which would result in children staying at home. When considering implementing this unwise decision that I have alluded to above of shutting down schools – because of small numbers of pupils in such schools or because such schools are closer to each other and so forth, and to move pupils from those schools that are Junior Primaries to Senior Primary schools – must know that the problem will be that schools would be shut down and pupils would not be provided with school transport whereas other schools are far apart from one another. You find pupils staying at home just because the department had taken a decision of shutting down the school without setting up programmes that would look after those pupils.]

These schools were built for a reason, they were built for a purpose. In many instances it is communities who are putting together their own resources for the schools to be built so that

children will be nearer when going to school. When schools are closed down and children suffer it is a big problem.

Inkatha iyawucelela umphakathi waseNingizimu Afrika azifunde izingane. [The IFP requests on behalf of South African communities that pupils be afforded an opportunity to learn.]

Division demanded.

AYES - 33: Chepape, T G; De Beer, C J; Dlamini, L C; Gaehler, L B; Khawula, M; Makue, E R; Mampuru, T K; Manopole, G M; Mateme, H E; Mhlanga, M T; Mlambo, E M; Mlombo, V; Mohai, S J; Mohapi, M J; Moshodi, M J; Motara, T; Mthethwa, J M; Nthebe, B G; Nyambi, A J; Nzimande, L P M; Parkies, J P; Prins, E; Rayi, M; Samka, P C; Sefako, O J; Shongwe, BT; Singh, A S; Sizani, S V; Stock, D; Thobejane, S G; Wana, T; Ximbi, D L; Zwane L L.

NOES - 14: Engelbrecht, B; Essack, F; Faber, W F; Hattingh, C; Julius, J W W; Koni, N P; Labuschagne, C; Londt, J J; Magwebu, L V; Mpambo-Sibhukwana,T G; Ngwenya D B; Obaray, I; Smit, C B F; Terblanche, O S.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Vote 15 – Higher Education and Training – put.

Declaration(s) of vote:

Mr C HATTINGH: Chairperson, they say if you can’t achieve your goals, lower your standards. So, I think our next goal will be 10%.

But, on this Vote, the allocation to students over the next three years continued in this budget amounts to approximately R17 billion in new funding. The R17 billion will be used to pay the bills of various categories of students. None of it will go to universities themselves.

This amount must be seen in the context of the R120 billion shortfall for Higher Education and Training over the next three years, as reported by the department only earlier this week.

Universities themselves continue to be underfunded. In order to survive and maintain standards, universities are forced to increase fees annually. Fees will continue to increase every year by unmanageable amounts in the absence of any remedy, and there is none forthcoming from government. Students will find themselves short of funds every year because of that, and the protests will go on until this is addressed, and it will not be during this government’s rule.

For this reason, we cannot support this budget. I thank you.

Mr D STOCK: Hon Chairperson, consistent with the Freedom Charter’s clause that says The Doors of Learning and Culture Shall be Opened,

and also consistent with the Bill of Rights of the Constitution of South Africa, section 29(2), the ANC has a progressively invested in the post-school education in order to free our people from the triple challenges of poverty, unemployment and inequality.

In the midst of fiscal constraints, our government has been able to increase the allocation to the higher education and training sector. The Department of Higher Education and Training has made funding available for universities across the landscape of our country in order to develop African languages and scientific languages.

I know for a fact that a few universities have applied for this funding, but it’s only a limited number of them that have applied. Therefore, I call upon all universities across the country to actually take the opportunity of the availed funding to develop the African languages.

Despite the inadequate allocation, the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, Nsfas, continues to be an enabler to access and success in higher education and training.

Hon Hattingh, since 2009, 1,5 million students have actually benefited from the scheme. Although the funding is not actually adequate, we are also calling upon the private sector to assist our government to overcome this particular challenge.

The Nsfas was also able to recover more than R400 million owed to it by students. I think it is a good achievement and it is also a good story to tell. We need also ... [ Interjections.] ... the department

... [Interjections.] ... and the ANC supports this Budget Vote for the Department of Higher Education and Training. I thank you. [Time expired.]

Division demanded.

The Council divided.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).

Vote 16 – Health – put.

Declarations of vote:

Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Chair, the country is in desperate need of universal health care, better known as UHC. Because of its obligations to South Africans, government has to consider all possible measures to ensure that people’s right to health is truly realised and protected. South Africa as a country does attempt to meet these demands.

However, the decision for the country to use National Health Insurance, NHI, as a vehicle to achieve the goal of UHC should be reconsidered. An example of how this method could have adverse effects can be found in Programme 2, which includes the NHI.

Even though 20% of the programme’s allocated budget was spent, the service delivery charges reached only 63%. In spite of this discrepancy between the numbers for expenditure and those for performance, a request was still made for R35 million in viraments for contracting under the NHI. We as the government cannot accept this request on adjustment.

The DA’s alternative policy, entitled Our Health Plan, is a better approach to use to tackle this issue of fulfilling the UHC goal. Not only will the service delivery on health be fairer, it will be faster and affordable but it will also, most probably and

importantly, be more reliable. We cannot support this. Thanks, Chairperson.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Order, on the medication part! You are on the floor, ma’am.

Ms M L MOSHODI: Chairperson, allow me to acknowledge the leadership and the innovation of the ANC and its leaders even before 1994. It is through that innovative and caring leadership, guided by the Freedom Charter of 1956, the reconstruction and development programmes, ANC policies as well as the assistance of the World Health Organisation and the United Nation Children Fund, and focussing on access, equity, quality and sustainability in the health sector that the government has, since 1994, developed and implemented a comprehensive health policy and health plan to consistently improve the health care delivery system in South Africa.

The ANC government inherited a society with massive disparities in access to health care incomes and otherwise. The apartheid government developed a health care system which was sustained through the years by the promulgation of racist legislation and the creation of institutions for the control of the health care sector which had the specific aim of sustaining racism, separation and discrimination in health care.

In terms of section 27 of the Constitution of South Africa, every person has the right to access to health care services and the state is responsible for creating the framework within which health is promoted and health care is delivered. The state is also a major provider of health services, and thus a single comprehensive, equitable and integrated national health system must be created and legislated for.

The ANC supports the Health Budget Vote because it enjoins all South Africans to work together towards redressing the apartheid legacy and ensuring that our people have access to health care services and facilities.

We want to express our outmost support of the efforts of the Minister of Health and the ANC in working tirelessly in transforming the health sector and to improve health care delivery in South Africa, in order to ensure that all South Africans have access to quality health care services that are equitable, sustainable and adequate. Thank you, Chair.

Division demanded.

The Council divided.

AYES - 32: Chepape, T G; De Beer, C J; Dlamini, L C; Gaehler, L B; Khawula, M; Makue, E R; Mampuru, T K; Manopole, G M; Mateme, H E;

Mhlanga, M T; Mlambo, E M; Mlombo, V; Mohai, S J; Mohapi, M J; Moshodi, M J; Motara, T; Mthethwa, J M; Nthebe, B G; Nyambi, A J; Nzimande, L P M; Parkies, J P; Prins, E; Rayi, M; Samka, P C; Sefako, O J; Shongwe, BT; Singh, A S; Sizani, S V; Thobejane, S G; Wana, T; Ximbi, D L; Zwane L L.

NOES -11: Engelbrecht, B; Faber, W F; Julius, J W W; Koni, N P; Labuschagne, C; Londt, J J; Magwebu, L V; Mpambo-Sibhukwana,T G; Ngwenya D B; Smit, C B F; Terblanche, O S.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).

Vote No 17 – Social Development – put.

Declaration(s) of vote:

Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Chairperson, due to a number of social development issues, such as the SASSA abrupt takeover of distributing social grants for 17 million South Africans and the contract with the current social provider of social development is just few months away from expiring.

Chairperson, the sharp increase of R5 million to R18,5 million for travel, while we patiently continue to wait for the Minister to account for the last years’ international travel, costing the taxpayers R12 million and the office general irregular expenditures amounting to R1 billion from the taxpayers coffers, are all issues

which have failed to instil our confidence in the office of the social development.

This office has very specific mandate and obligation for South Africans for the poor of the poorest to ensure that the most poor South Africans and vulnerable members of our society are protected and catered for. However, even during these trying times of the draught as well as the general instability of our country the Minister has still failed to be accountable to the portfolio committee and is yet to answer questions relating to his department’s expenditure on noncore programmes while underperforming in the very essential programmes the department is mandated to look after.

Hon Chairperson, the DA does not support this.

Ms L C DLAMINI: Chairperson, we take note that the EFF is voting with the DA, but they decided not to sit in one place. We as the ANC would like to support the budget because of our history of carrying for the marginalised and the poor. If you look at this department, it is responsible for mostly women and children, especially the poor.

Hon Chair, we are not surprised that the DA does not support this budget. It is because they are not affected and they don’t care

about poor people. Babafuna kuphela nakufuneka kutsi babavotele. [They want them only when they need their votes.]

Chairperson, we are saying if batsi akungasekelwa lolwabiwomali lolu

... [Kuhlaba lulwimi.] [...they say let this budget vote not be supported ...) [Interjection.]

Ms N P KONI: Chairperson, on a point of order, actually the hon member who just made a statement about the EFF failed the Mpumalanga Province, she ... [Interjections.] She thinks that that is her household and she must know that we don’t report to her.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon member, that is not a point of order. Please proceed, hon Dlamini.

Ms L C DLAMINI: Kantsi nabo laba labagcoka letibovu, njengobe bangalusekeli nje lolwabiwomali, laba be-EFF ne-DA basho kutsi bantfu labadzala bangete bayitfola imali yabo yemhlalaphansi. Ngobe phela lokwa kadzeni lisiko le-DA, bantfu labamnyama bebanganiketwa imali yemhlalaphansi; basho kutsi nebantfwana abangatitfoli tibonelelo tabo. Ngisho kubo bonkhe kanye nalabangalusekeli lolwabiwomali.

Tsine-ke, Sihlalo, njengaKhongolose asikuvumi loko. Sitsi abayinikwe. Itolo loku, Sihlalo, sisekele Umtsetfosivivinyo lotsi tisebenti tenhlalakahle takahulumende nato atikhone kusebenta

ngetekutsatfwa kwebantfwana labate batali, ku-adobtha tintsandzane, intfo lebeyingenteki kucala ngobe lokwa kadzeni kusaphetse i-DA bebayenta sisulu sekufihlwa lentfo yekutfolwa kwebantfwana.

Lokusho kutsi vele bantfwana bebantfu labamnyama kufuneka bahlale batintsandzane kokuphela, bangakhoni kondliwa nome bekufanele bondliwe. Kodvwa tsine lesinguKhongolose lophetse umbuso ... (Translation of Siswati paragraphs follows.)

[Even those that are in red, since they do not support the budget vote, does the EFF and the DA imply that the elderly should not get their pension. In the past, according the DA tradition, black people were not given pension; do they mean that even the children should not get their social grants? I am referring to all of them because they do not support the budget vote.

As the ANC Hon. Chairperson we do not agree with that. We are saying let our people be given. Not long ago, Chairperson we approved a Bill that provides for state social workers to be able to deal with child adoptions and orphans, something that was never done before because in the past when DA was in power they used to hide this child adoption issue.

This implies that black people’s children must remain orphans forever; they should not be supported even if they could. However, we as the ANC-led government ...]

... we have just approved that state social workers should also be able to deal with adoptions. So, we are saying that as the ANC that is carrying for the poor and the marginalised support this budget because these are the very people that vote for us. We also care about their welfare. Unlike the DA and the EFF.

Mr M KHAWULA: Chairperson, as a reminder, we are still waiting for the Minister to come to this House and respond to our questions because on the day when she was scheduled to appear here and respond to questions, she decided to run away.

Chairperson, the concern continues that this department continues to be used for political gains by the ruling party. Where-ever there are elections or by-elections the department is utilised for food parcels which is not the objective of the government and not the objective of the department. Actually the department should be servicing the poorest of the poor irrespective of whom they are or where they are and at what time it is.

We want to appeal to the department to please stick to the mandate of the department: Serve the poorest of the poor accordingly.

Secondly the department’s concern is that they have under-spend by R1 billion over the past year; which is a great concern because very many poor out there are waiting for the department to come and service them. But because the department is focused on wrong objectives and not focussing on what it should be doing then they go

on underspending when children are poor and the grannies are not getting their money and the increase is very minimal for what they are getting.

So, we just want to appeal to the department to begin to do justice to what their mandate needs them to do. Thank you.

Mr L B GAEHLER: Siyabulela Sihlalo. Ungakwazi ukuba undincede apha kwaba bantu bafika emva kwethuba? [We thank you, Chairperson. Can you help me with these latecomers, please?]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Gaehler is protected.

Mr L B GAEHLER: Siyaluxhasa uhlahlo-lwabiwo-mali kodwa sinengxaki noMphathiswa weli sebe. [We do support the budget vote but we have a problem with the Minister responsible for this department.]

I have written seven letters to him.

Oomama babantwana abafumana izibonelelo, imali yegrant, bayayinxila. [The mothers of children receiving grants spend the money on liquor.]

We are concerned about the monitoring of this department.

Urhulumente akakwazi ukuba akhuphe imali ize ingazenzi ezi zinto bekufanele ukuba iyazenza. Yinto yokuqala leyo efuna ukujongwa kweli sebe. Sinengxaki ngeziniki maxabiso ezikhutshiweyo kwaSassa ezithe zaqokelelwa zafakwa endaweni enye nguMphathiswa. Yinto ekufuneka ukuba ijongwe kweli sebe. Kaloku asikwazi ukuba iziniki maxabiso ziqokelelwe zigalelwe endaweni enye ukuze zinikwe abantu abathile. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[Government cannot provide grants and the money is not spent on what it is meant for. That is the first thing this department should look at. We have a problem with the tenders issued by Sassa that the Minister combined into one. This is something that this department needs to look at. Indeed we cannot have a situation where tenders are combined into one and offered to certain people.]

So, those are the two concerns of the UDM, and they need to be addressed. I thank you.

Division demanded.

The Council divided.

Nzimande, L P M; Parkies, J P; Prins, E; Rayi, M; Samka, P C; Sefako, O J; Shongwe, BT; Singh, A S; Sizani, S V; Stock, D; Thobajane, S G; Wana, T; Ximbi, D L; Zwane L L.

NOES - 11: Engelbrecht, B; Faber, W F; Julius, J W W; Koni, N P; Labuschagne, C; Londt, J J; Magwebu, L V; Mpambo-Sibhukwana,T G; Ngwenya D B; Smit, C B F; Terblanche, O S.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).

Vote No 18 – Correctional Services – put.

Vote agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Vote No 19 – Defence and Military Veterans – put.

Declaration(s) of vote:

Mr O S TERBLANCHE: Chairperson, the underresourcing of the SA National Defence Force is a national crisis that the governing party does not openly want to admit to, let alone address. The exact extent of the problem cannot be established owing to a Minister who uses national security as an excuse for not replying to questions properly, whilst all indications are that this country cannot fulfil its basic military obligations of defending our sovereignty. This same Minister refuses to account to Parliament’s select committee,

having made excuses for not appearing on every single occasion since the start of the Fifth Parliament in 2014.

The SANDF cannot fulfil its constitutional mandate while being treated as an afterthought in the budget and will not be able to reach its target as set out in the Defence Review. What is more, is that VIP flights, VIP jets, private trips for politicians and their extended families, friends and girlfriends, as well as other lavish political spending, amongst other forms of irregular spending, are being incurred while basic resources are being cut to the bare minimum and sometimes even beyond that.

We will not see this department recover any time soon under this Minister. She must go. We cannot support this budget. Thank you, Chairperson.

Mnu E M MLAMBO: Angibonge Sihlalo, angazi ukuthi ilungu elihloniphekile liyithathaphi indaba elikhuluma ngayo - ngoba zisuka nje ebhandeni alilona nelungu lekomidi. Njengoba siphethe singuKhongolose angeke sizwe ngabo ukuthi sofaka baphi oNgqongqoshe sikhiphe baphi. NjengoKhongolose ngiyacabanga ukuthi siyibhekile indaba yeZokuvikela futhi sikhathazekile kakhulu ngoba ukunikezelwa kwezinsiza kwehlile kakhulu Kwezokuvikela. Kodwa-ke singuKhongolose siyazi ukuthi izinto ezinjalo ziyalungiswa.

Kunezinkulumo eziqhubekayo ziyaphambili phakathi koMnyango woMgcinimafa kanye noMnyango Wezokuvikela kanye Nezigagayi Zempi. Manje thina singuKhongolose asikhathazekile ngoba siyazi ukuthi lezo zinkulumo zigxile ekuxazululeni lenkinga yokunikezela izinsiza eyehlile eMnyangweni Wezokuvikela. Njenge-ANC siyasesekela le sabiwomali ngoba siyazi ukuthi ukuphepha kwabantu baseNingizimu Afrika kusezandleni zaloMnyango wethu weZokuvikela esiwuthanda kakhulu. Uma becabanga ukuthi bazoyibhidliza ngalendlela abenza ngayo sinohlelo phecelezi-operation Corona evikela imingcele. Inani lamalungu kanye nokushintshana kwamalungu eZokuvikela kudinga imali. Ngakho-ke le nkulumo engikhuluma ngayo ephakathi koMgcinimafa KaZwelonke noMnyango Wezokuvikela kanye Nezigagayi Zempi isiyisa endleleni ethi sizokwazi ukuvikela izwe lakithi. Sibabonge-ke abagqoke inyufomu njengoba sizohamba siyobabona mhlaziyi 16-17 eDemocratic Republic of Congo. Sibaphathele nezinto eziphuma ekhaya ukuze baqhubeke njalo benze umsebenzi oncomekayo. Ngiyabonga Sihlalo. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Mr E M MLAMBO: Thank you Chairperson, I do not know where the hon member gets what he is talking about - for starters he is not even a member of the committee. As the ruling party, the ANC, we are not going to be told by them that who should we give the ministerial positions to and who should we remove as the Minister. As the ANC we are aware and greatly concerned about the Defence Force because of the immense decrease in service delivery in the Defence Force. But as the ANC we know that such things are being rectified.

There are ongoing talks between the Department of Finance and the Department of Defence and Military Veterans. AWHICH s the ANC, we are not worried because we know that those talks are focussing on solving the problem of decreasing service delivery in the Department of Defence and Military Veterans. As the ANC we support this Budget Vote because we know that safety of the South African people is in the hands of our Defence Force which we love so dearly. And if they think that they can destroy it like they are doing now – we have a programme known as operation Corona that protects borders. The numbers and the changing of shifts for members of the Defence Force need money. Therefore, the talk that is between the National Treasury and the Department of Defence and Military Veterans I am referring to takes us at our being able to protect our country. We are then grateful to the men in uniform as we will be going to see them on the 16-17 in the Democratic Republic of Congo. We will also take them something from home so that they can continue doing their good job.]

Division demanded.

The Council divided:

Nzimande, L P M; Prins, E; Rayi, M; Samka, P C; Sefako, O J; Shongwe, BT; Singh, A S; Sizani, S V; Stock, D; Thobejane, S G; Wana, T; Ximbi, D L; Zwane L L.

NOES -11: Engelbrecht, B; Faber, W F; Julius, J W W; Koni, N P; Labuschagne, C; Londt, J J; Magwebu, L V; Mpambo-Sibhukwana,T G; Ngwenya D B; Smit, C B F; Terblanche, O S.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).

Vote No 20 – Independent Police Investigative Directorate – put.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Vote No 21 – Justice and Constitutional Development – put.

Declaration(s) of vote:

Mr O S TERBLANCHE: Hon Chairperson, the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development makes adjustment to each budget at the cost of much needed infrastructure, while the spreading of resources on nonessential items are not cut. In this sense, the department needs to get its priorities right and do not only address the needs for well managed court in every area of the country, but also by showing some well in being physically more effective. Furthermore, this budget fails to address the real problem whether the department

has ever increasing issues within our criminal justice system and state legal services. We do not support this budget, Chairperson. Thank you.

Ms T WANA:Sihlalo, bantu bakowethu njengokuba simile apha namhlanje sixoxa ngemali emayilungiselelwe iSebe lezoBulunigsa, siyayazi into yokuba i-DA ayisayi kulamkela olu hlahlo-lwabiwo-mali kuba kaloku thina sacinezelwa oko ukususela ngonyaka we-1912. Umantyi ebesele esazi ukuba ukuma nje kwakho enkundleni kufuneka ugwetywe intambo. Ngoko ke ezembali zihleli nabantu bayo zinkosi.

Thina singumbutho we-ANC kufuneka siqale sibulele uTambo owashiya ubuntwana bakhe wayokuhlala elubhacweni kwakunye noMadiba owenza ukuba sibe noMgaqo-siseko namhlanje, ovunywayo lilizwe lonke.

Ngoko ke into esiyithethayo ngaba banxiba impahla ezibomvu kukuba le mpahla ibomvu ... (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Ms T WANA: Chairperson, countrymen, as we stand here today debating the issue of funds to be arranged for the Department of Justice, we know that the DA will never accept such a budget because we have been oppressed since 1912. When you appeared in court a magistrate handed down a predetermined judgement of capital punishment.

Therefore history lives on in the people, countrymen.

We as the ANC have to start off by thanking Tambo who sacrificed his childhood for life of exile, and Madiba who ensured that today we have a Constitution that is recognised worldwide.

Therefore what we are saying about those in red uniform is that their red uniform ...

... is not something to do a professional work, an overall is a protective type of a clothing. Therefore, they cannot bring anything to us, and we must note ...

... bantu bakowethu into yokuba njengokuba benxibe ezi mpahla zibomvu, abafuni nani ukuba nitye kuba kaloku bakhusela nolu hlahlo- lwabiwo-mali ukuba lungezi kuni, bame phakathi kohlahlo-lwabiwo-mali nabantu bakaTambo.

Siyi-ANC siyayazi into yokuba apho amanzi ayekhe ema khona ayaphinda eme kuba behleli nathi nje kukwazi ukuba noko singabantu bembeko nabantu bokuxhasa. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[... countrymen, that they do not want you to also benefit because they do not want this budget to reach you, hence they stand between the budget and Tambo’s people.

As the ANC we know that history repeats itself because the reason they are still here with us is because they know that we are people of respect and of support.]

Moh N P KONI: Modulasetilo, ke rata go tshwaela go Mme Wana ke re, fa re apara diobarolo tse re di aparang, re boloka diaparo tsa rona tse dintle, tse re reng fa re di apere, re be re nna bantle go ba gaisa. Ke a leboga. (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[Ms N P KONI: Chairperson, can I make a comment to Ms Wana and inform her that by wearing our overalls, we, in fact, are reserving our beautiful clothes. When we wear those clothes, we become more beautiful than they are.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Thank you very

much, but that was not a point of order. Please continue, hon Wana. Hon Koni!

Ms N P KONI: [Inaudible.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: No, you

cannot. Hon Koni, there is no point of I forgot here. [Laughter.] You have two points of orders running concurrently.

Ms N P KONI: I do not want to put it in that way, Chairperson, because it will ... [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: I will grant

you, please sit down. Hon Wana, continue.

Ms N P KONI: Chairperson, may I be protected? Can the hon Wana please take a seat?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Yes, but into

the future you will not have the concurrence.

Ms N P KONI: Okay, Chairperson.

Modulasetilo, ke kopa go botsa motl Wana gore a o dira matshidiso? [Chairperson, can I ask Ms Wana if she is busy with condolences?]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Oh, no, that

is again not a point of order. The one that you forgot and was concurrent. Hon Wana, please continue.

Nks T WANA: Sihlalo, mna ke andiyiva nale nto ayibuzayo kuba kaloku laa nto ayithethayo ayidibenanga nam. Bendisatsho bantu bakuthi ukuba xa niza kuhlala apho phezulu, ze nimamele ke abantwana benu bethetha ngoluya uhlobo. I-ANC iluqoqile olu hlahlo-lwabiwo-mali, akukho kwanto engasayi kwenzeka kuba nangoku sixakwe ngomnye umlungu, u-Van ntoni ntoni, endingamaziyo nobandakanyekayo nakule nto yokumosha iSebe lethu lezoBulungisa kuba kaloku ... (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[Ms T WANA: Chairperson, I do not even understand her question because what she is talking about has nothing to do with me. As I was saying, countrymen, that as you sit up there in the gallery I hope you noted the tone and manner in which your children spoke. The ANC has consolidated this budget, everything will go according to plan because even now we have a problem with a certain white person, a Van something something I do not know, who is involved in efforts to mess up our Department of Justice because ...]

... history wants to repeat itself. Thank you ANC to put the relevant people to the strategic positions that they can drive this transformation information because it is not going to take two years or ten years ...

... kuba kaloku thina singabantwana abacinezelwayo kuba nangoku sihleli apha nje siyayazi into yokuba ... [... because we are the children who were oppressed and as we sit here we know that ...]

... we will never succeed any than we have prepared because the DA everyday is dragging us down and for that, thank you Chairperson.

Siyalwamkela olu hlahlo-lwabiwo-mali lukaTambo [We approve this, Tambo’s budget.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: The DA

objected and declared. You did not call for a division. There be no call for any division, we note the objection of both the DA and the

EFF. Therefore, the question has been agreed to on Vote 21, we therefore proceed to Vote 22.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Vote No 22 – Office of the Chief Justice and Judicial Administration

– put and agreed to.

Vote No 23 – Police – put.

Declaration of vote:

Mr O S TERBLANCHE: Chairperson, the Department of Police is one of the best funded, but the worst managed of all. Everyday, South African citizens have to live in increasing fear as violence crimes are on the increase. This is due to the under resourcing of our SAPS at station level, inadequate training to deal effectively with these crimes, a breakdown of trust between civil society, and the police and the serious lack of integrity, and fitness for purpose on the part of its leadership.

Our citizens have to live in fear while the department is spending almost 50% more on protecting politicians. ANC’s VIPs are now more than ever being protected against the same violence that it fails to protect the public from. The DA government will reprioritise this Budget, so that it focuses on making not for politicians but you the

public safer. We don’t support the ANC’s VIP protection Budget. I thank you.

Mr D L XIMBI: Yes, madam. I thought that the DA will start, Chairperson. Thank you.

Sihlalo, mandiyithethe into yokuba amapolisa esinawo namhlanje anomahluko omkhulu kumapolisa ayekhona phambi ngonyaka we-1994. [Hon Chairperson, let me say that policemen of today are totally different to those of 1994.]

Internally the police have under gone a significant transformation and are implementing demilitisation and professionalism as key tenants of policing as well as building working relations with communities. This is event through programme such their school safety programme and mobile police clinics. Therefore a number of promising initiatives are taking place to improve policing. To this end, SAPS is implementing a Back to Basic programme to improve policing.

As a result of this approach, some positive changes are already evident. A reduction in those cases older than one year, better usage of forensic leads in cases improved fire arm recovery, the establishment of specialised units for narcotics and illegal fire arms control.

SAPS, has implemented programmes with detectives to ensure trial- ready documents and has specialised training and has adopted recruitment strategies to address the matter by ensuring training and professionalism within the SAPS. However, some real challenges remain within the SAPS, including conduct crimes and crimes in general still remain high. Although there are community safety forums in provinces, most of them are not working effectively.

In a recent victim survey conducted, it was clear that society does still not feel safe and secure with our levels of crime. The SAPS still has a long way to go to ensure demilitisation. Public order policing training needs to be strengthened. The SAPS has limited vehicles per ratio to staff, and vehicle maintenance remain a challenge.

It is important to bear in mind the constant challenges faced by our men in blue such as gangsterism, drugs, violence and intolerance towards the SAPS members. All these factors continuously affect their ability to do their work and ensure the safety of our citizens.

Ndiphinde kwakhona, niyayazi xa kunethe imvula ... [Kwaphela ixesha.] [Let me repeat again, do you know when it is rained... [Time expired.]]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Uligqibile ixesha lakho Mhlekazi, imizuzu emithathu iphelile. Ndiyabulela. [Kwahlekwa.] [You have finished your time Sir, three minutes is gone. Thank you. [Laughter.]]

Mr D L XIMBI: Liphelile, owu yini na madoda. [Did it expire, Oh no gentlemen!]

Division demanded.

The Council divided:

AYES - 31: Chepape, T G; De Beer, C J; Dlamini, L C; Gaehler, L B; Khawula, M; Makue, E R; Mampuru, T K; Manopole, G M; Mateme, H E; Mhlanga, M T; Mlambo, E M; Mlombo, V; Mohai, S J; Mohapi, M J; Moshodi, M J; Motara, T; Nthebe, B G; Nyambi, A J; Nzimande, L P M; Prins, E; Rayi, M; Samka, P C; Sefako, O J; Shongwe, BT; Singh, AS; Sizani, S V; Stock, D; Thobejane, S G; Wana, T; Ximbi, D L; Zwane L L.

NOES - 12: Engelbrecht, B; Essack, F; Faber, W F; Julius, J W W; Koni, N P; Labuschagne, C; Londt, J J; Magwebu, L V; Mpambo- Sibhukwana,T G; Ngwenya D B; Smit, C B F; Terblanche, O S.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).

Vote 24 – Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries - put.

Declarations of vote:

Mr L B GAEHLER: Chairperson, the UDM supports the budget and is encouraged by the improvement of the department in particular with regard to budget spending; filling of Senior Management Service, SMS, level vacancies as well as management and operation of the department’s fishing vessels. However, agriculture remains stuck below the 3% line in our GDP. The contributing factor thereto is the lack of landownership by black farmers. The public announcement by the deputy director-general of the department on Monday 24th of October, instead with their regard to the target of no less than 50 emerging black farmers per province that will be supported to become commercial farmers of food is appreciated.

In this regard, the department is encouraged to ensure that this policy statement is translated into a concrete plan that will be implemented with achievable timeframes. Further, the department may also be encouraged to report more on this programme. [Time expired.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: liphelile

mhlekazi ixesha lakho. [Your time has expired Sir.]

Limkile na mama. [Did it expire mama?]

The department must ensure that farmers have ownership of the land. The department should with immediate effect train its personnel so that they are fully equipped to skill and help emerging farmers. I thank you.

Niyabona ukuba iphilile le nto na bantu bakuthi. Sithetha ngomhlaba, ndiyibambile. [Compatriots, do you see that this is worth it? We talk about land, I am on the right track.]

Mr A S SINGH: Chair, the ANC rises in support of the adjustment appropriation Vote – Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries.

Agriculture, forestry and fisheries remain one of the sectors that offer the real possibility of massive job creation and the revival of the rural economy. The ANC has identified this as one of the priority productive sectors of the economy that, in terms of the office, government should focus on. In order to ensure the realisation of this priority, the ANC correctly identified and increased investment in rural infrastructure and support production and marketing opportunities as key.

Financing of agriculture and rural development are consistent with the commitments of the heads of state as governments as reflected in the 2003 Maputo Declaration remains critical. The adjustment in this Vote of funds provides critical adjustment support to students who are undertaking agriculture-related studies in our drive to increase the interest in youth in taking up farming. Support is also given

through the adjustment of agricultural colleges for student tuition and books. Transfers to the National Research Foundation are also captured by this adjustment

With regards to the announcement by the Minister of Finance on the drought relief, the adjustment Vote captures the money that has already been provided for drought relief in terms of the Public Finance Management Act. The R212 million funds provide drought relief to farmers. The adjustment to this Vote will assist in the continuation of providing the quality of local investment growth ... [Time expired.] ... especially in rural areas. We support this Vote.

Division demanded.

The Council divided:

AYES - 32: Chepape, T G; De Beer, C J; Dlamini, L C; Gaehler, L B; Khawula, M; Makue, E R; Mampuru, T K; Manopole, G M; Mateme, H E; Mhlanga, M T; Mlambo, E M; Mlombo, V; Mohai, S J; Mohapi, M J; Moshodi, M J; Motara, T; Mthethwa, J M; Nthebe, B G; Nyambi, A J; Nzimande, L P M; Prins, E; Rayi, M; Samka, P C; Sefako, O J; Shongwe, BT; Singh, A S; Sizani, S V; Stock, D; Thobejane, S G; Wana, T; Ximbi, D L; Zwane L L.

NOES - 12: Engelbrecht, B; Essack, F; Faber, W F; Julius, J W W; Koni, N P; Labuschagne, C; Londt, J J; Magwebu, L V; Mpambo- Sibhukwana,T G; Ngwenya D B; Smit, C B F; Terblanche, O S.

Vote agreed to. (Democratic Alliance dissenting).

Vote 25 – Economic Development – put.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting)

Vote No 26 – Energy – put.

Vote agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Vote No 27 – Environmental Affairs – put.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Are there any

objections to Vote 27? The EFF objects, the DA objects. Are there any declarations? [Interjections.] Huh! He raised his hand?

Mr W F FABER: ... [Inaudible.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Thank you very

much. [Interjections.] It is emphatically supported and I must have misread the hand that went up. Okay.

Vote agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Vote No 28 – Labour - put:

Declaration(s) of vote:

Mr V MAGWEBU: Hon Chair, the country is in a serious crisis of lack of jobs and the Department of Labour is not helping in assisting in fixing this. Having said this I want to quickly deal with evidence and facts and numbers because numbers don’t lie. We can’t be emotional about these things no matter how much we want to be.

Here is the evidence hon Chair. In the third quarter of 2016, 136 000 more people became jobless, bringing the total to over 9 million people who are now unemployed.

In this environment and in the circumstances, the Department of Labour has failed to achieve its target for land reform and the Minister continues to operate this department and run it like his household. This is characterised by her personal appointments of friends and relatives, protecting her own friends from scrutiny and accountability; and not dealing with the internal failures and thus people continue to be jobless and jobless everyday.

Therefore, we want to place it on record that it will be completely reckless and irresponsible for the DA to support this because in this Vote the department and the Minister want us to agree to a

Budget of virements for overseas travels, luxury hotels, fancy office equipment and so on. Therefore, we will not support this and we are placing it on record as the DA that we are not supporting this Vote and we will vote no. Thank you.

Mr B G NTHEBE: Chairperson, on behalf of the ANC we want to rise and support the Budget for common reasons. Over the period of two years or so, there has been maintenance of industrial peace, particularly driven and championed by this department. But we also know that the sources within which our learned friends from the far right are sourcing their information are never correct.

What we should tell them is that job creation cannot be and will never be the responsibility of the Department of Labour and the Department of Labour alone, it is given. Where you need investments of resources for stimulation of a conducive environment for job creation, it’s a concurrent faction over many departments.

We therefore want to urge our learned friends that take some efforts to understand the responsibility of the Department of Labour. What we know that you are opposing is the current amendment in the UIF section which includes others, the inclusion of the 18,1 and 18,2 because what you stand for is for the protection of those who are sitting on the other side, maximising profit and looking down on the others who need job creation. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr L B GAEHLER: Sihlalo, I-UDM iyaluxhasa olu hlahlo-lwabiwo-mali kodwa kukho ingaxaki – uxolo ungasinceda apha mama – [Chairperson, the UDM supports this Budget Vote but there is a problem – please, can you help here, ma’am -]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order, there is a member on the floor.

Mnu L B GAEHLER: ... endicinga ukuba ingasinceda nathi singamaLungu ePalamente. Apha ePalamente sinezikhalazo ezininzi zabantu abangafumaniyo iimali zabo zomhlalaphantsi. Ukuba abantu bayamphulaphula uMhlobo Wenene, ezinzulwini zobusuku - 12 down - , kukhala abantu. Ezi mali zomhlala-phantsi zabantu zihlala kubalawuli abaninzi beengxowa-mali yomhlalaphantsi kwaye kuyacaca ukuba abantu ababaniki ulwazi ngeemali zabo kuba abanye bade basweleke kukuhlupheka nabantwana bangayi esikolweni.

Eli sebe siliyacela ukuba lithathe inxaxheba yokukhangele ezi mali kwaba balawuli beengxowa-mali yomhlalphantsi kwaye ibazise abantu bakuthi kuba bafela endlaleni. Kufuneka sibone singamaLungu ePalamante yoMzantsi Afrika ukuba kungenziwa njani ukuba abantu bafumane iimali zabo kubalawuli bengxowa-mali yomhlalaphantsi.

Abanye iimali zabo zihlalala kubalawuli bengxowa-mali yomhlalaphantsi zide zitshone, ziphele zifunyanwa ngoongxowankulu. Asikho isizathu esibangela ukuba ezi mali zingafunyanwa kuba leli sebe kuphela elinako ukuncenda aba bantu ukusombulula le ngaxki.

Enkosi. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Mr L B GAEHLER: ... which I think can also help us as Members of Parliament. Here in Parliament we have received many complaints from people who have not received their retirement pensions. If people listen to Umhlobo Wenene FM at midnight – on 12 Down – people are complaining there. The retirement pensions remain with many managers of retirement funds and it is clear that they do not give people information regarding their retirement pensions because some of these people end up dying from poverty, with their children unable to go to school.

We appeal to this department to help in tracing these monies to the managers of pension funds and to inform our people of their findings because these people die in hunger. As Members of Parliament in South Africa we have to see what is it that we can do to make sure that people receive their retirement pensions from pension fund managers. Some people end up losing their retirement pensions to pension fund managers, and in turn to capitalists. There is no reason why these retirement pensions cannot be traced because it is only this department that can help these people solve this problem. Thank you.]

Vote agreed to with Democratic Alliance dissenting.

Vote No 29 – Mineral Resources – put.

Declaration(s) of vote:

Mr A S SINGH: Chair, the ANC rises in support of the Adjustment Appropriation Vote, Mineral Resources. As the primary sector ensures that there is substantive contribution to the Gross Domestic Product, GDP, of this country and remains one of the largest employers.

Mineral sector will, through the beneficiation of mineral wealth of this country, assist in diversifying the economy which is critical in addressing the primary economic challenge, transforming the structure of the economy from the colonial and apartheid structural dependence on the extradition and expropriation of raw materials to an economy that is diversified and able to develop cross sectors and thus ensuring great employment.

The framework agreement for the substantial mining industry, which has led to settlements stabilisation in the mining industry has to be supported to ensure enhanced stability in the mining industry. This coupled with stabilisation investment and expropriation of and mining, and thereby improving performance in the industry.

Beneficiation must be the people’s driver in our mineral resource regime. We support this Vote.

Division demanded.

AYES - 31: Chepape, T G; De Beer, C J; Dlamini, L C; Gaehler, L B; Khawula, M; Makue, E R; Mampuru, T K; Manopole, G M; Mateme, H E;

Mhlanga, M T; Mlambo, E M; Mlombo, V; Mohai, S J; Mohapi, M J; Moshodi, M J; Motara, T; Mthethwa, J M; Nthebe, B G; Nyambi, A J; Nzimande, L P M; Prins, E; Rayi, M; Samka, P C; Sefako, O J; Shongwe, BT; Singh, A S; Sizani, S V; Thobejane, S G; Wana, T; Ximbi, D L; Zwane L L.

NOES - 12: Engelbrecht, B; Essack, F; Faber, W F; Julius, J W W; Koni, N P; Labuschagne, C; Londt, J J; Magwebu, L V; Mpambo- Sibhukwana,T G; Ngwenya D B; Smit, C B F; Terblanche, O S.

Vote agreed to with Democratic Alliance dissenting.

Vote No 30 – Science and Technology – put.

Vote agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Vote No 31 – Small Business Development – put.

Division demanded.

The Council divided:

Nzimande, L P M; Prins, E; Rayi, M; Samka, P C; Sefako, O J; Shongwe, BT; Singh, A S; Sizani, S V; Stock, D; Thobejane, S G; Wana, T; Ximbi, D L; Zwane L L.

NOES -12: Engelbrecht, B; Essack, F; Faber, W F; Julius, J W W; Koni, N P; Labuschagne, C; Londt, J J; Magwebu, L V; Mpambo- Sibhukwana,T G; Ngwenya D B; Smit, C B F; Terblanche, O S.

Vote agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters and Democratic Alliance dissenting.)

Vote No 32 – Telecommunications and Postal Services – put.

Vote agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters and Democratic Alliance dissenting.)

Vote No 33 – Tourism – put.

Vote agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting.)

Vote No 34 – Trade and Industry – put.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Vote No 35 – Transport – put.

Division demanded.

The Council divided.

NOES -12: Engelbrecht, B; Essack, F; Faber, W F; Julius, J W W; Koni, N P; Labuschagne, C; Londt, J J; Magwebu, L V; Mpambo- Sibhukwana,T G; Ngwenya D B; Smith, C B F; Terblanche, O S.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).

Vote No 36 – Water and Sanitation – put

Declaration(s) of vote:

Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Chairperson, although there seems to be a general increase in the expenditure and performance of this department for the midyear 2016, the office is still plagued by a number of shortfalls such as, firstly, the lack of Blue and Green

Drop reports. They haven’t been there; R290 million expenditure in only one imported mobile desolation plant; a zero percent assessment of all 963 wastewater treatment plants; and fourthly, only 42% assessment of the 1084 drinking water treatment plants.

Chairperson, water and sanitation as you know, are essential constitutional rights for all South Africans. It is therefore not only imperative but also constitutional obligation to take certain measures to ensure that people’s rights relating to water and sanitation are truly realised and protected.

Failure to do so should not be on the expense of the citizens of the country, but should be a reflection of your incompetence, Minister Nomvula Mokonyane, which would also serve as a reflection that is, Minister should vacate this office. She is useless. Until these failures are attended to, we, the DA, do not support the adjusted budget. I thank you.

Vote agreed to (Democratic Alliance dissenting).

Vote No 37 – Arts And Culture – put and greed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Front dissenting).

Vote No 38 – Human Settlements – put.

Declaration of vote on behalf of the Democratic Alliance and African National Congress read.

Declaration of vote:

Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: On our support, we want to convey these concerns as the DA. We have a number of concerns that pertain to the expenditure of this office. Firstly, we are concerned about the allocation of about 5% of the 889 623 of the rectification programme. In our opinion, this kind of expenditure would have been unnecessary had the National Home Builders Registration Council, the NHBRC, completed it work properly by working with the other spheres of government.

Secondly, we are also concerned about the general underspending of this department. One of the areas which concern us most is the Rural House Infrastructure Grant, RHIG, underspending which is there to assist and empower vulnerable people from our rural areas, the poor South African citizens.

This also relates to our third concern of the general under- expenditure in housing opportunities across our country, in nine provinces. Notwithstanding these issues, we as the DA support this budget and we will continue to maintain the position of monitoring very closely and intensively the progress of this department. I thank you.

Ms T MOTARA: Chairperson, since the ANC has assumed responsibility to govern South Africa, we have put in place progressive policies that once to see the complete ... [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Motara,

please take your seat. What is the point of order, sir?

Mr J W W JULIUS: It is so strange that I raise a point of order. However, you repeatedly asked for any declarations and the ANC never put up their hands. They come afterwards. The whole day wasting our time and writing it on tissue papers ... [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Julius ...

Order! Order! There is no point of order from hon Julius. Sit down, please. Order! I have been asking members whether there were any other members, and when I did that, other members who had not raised their hands have been doing that. So, I have been very consistent on this one. So, hon Julius, your point of order is not sustained. Hon Motara, please proceed.

Ms T MOTARA: As I read from my prepared page, not a tissue paper, let me just say that the ANC has assumed responsibility to govern South Africa. We have put in place progressive policies that want to see the complete eradication of the legacy of apartheid. We have done this by passing laws in this Parliament.

In terms of section 26 of the Constitution, everyone has a right to have access to adequate housing. The state, through the Department of Local Government and Housing must take reasonable measures, within its available resources to achieve this progressive realisation of this right. The ANC-led government has moved with utmost speed and decisiveness to ensure that access to housing becomes an integral part of our national quest and commitment to reduce poverty, but most important to improve people’s quality of life for the people of South Africa.

We have taken this built undertaking because we are well aware that our nation and communities have suffered indelible damage from the long years of apartheid settlement and preferential treatment. Today we rise with utmost pride and humility to say as the ANC that we have moved to dismantle the legacy of apartheid in our communities.

We have championed one of the massive programmes in the world, to house a nation that was left destitute in its own country of birth and whose right to descent housing was criminalised by a sting of racially orchestrated legislation as well as policies. Therefore, in continuing with this quest to restore the dignity to our South African people, we want to support and will continue to support the Department of Housing’s Budget Vote. Thank you.

The question on Vote 38 is agreed to

Vote No 39 - Rural Development and Land Reform – put.

Division demanded.

The Council divided.

NOES - 12: Engelbrecht, B; Essack, F; Faber, W F; Julius, J W W; Koni, N P; Labuschagne, C; Londt, J J; Magwebu, L V; Mpambo- Sibhukwana,T G; Ngwenya D B; Smith, C B F; Terblanche, O S.

The question on Vote 39 is agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Front dissenting).

Vote No 40 - Sport and Recreation – put and agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Front dissenting).

Consideration on the votes concluded.

Schedule put and agreed to.

CONSIDERATION OF ADJUSTMENTS APPROPRIATION BILL [B 16 – 2016] AND REPORT OF THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS THEREON

Declaration(s) of vote:

Mr F ESSACK: The Adjustments Appropriation Bill was tabled by the Minister of Finance on 26 October 2016 as part of his Mid-Term budget Policy Statement, giving effect to the appropriation of monies form the National Revenue Fund for the 2016/17 financial year.

Since the 2013/14 financial year, irregular expenditure has increased by almost 40%, amounting to over R46 billion. The continued lack of effective controls and supply management processes are the main culprits that contribute to this increase in irregular expenditure.

89% of irregular expenditure rose in the procurement of goods and services as highlighted by the Auditor-General. The Auditor-General has further highlighted six entities that were responsible for over 50% of irregular expenditure for 2015/16; including of course the famous Passenger Rail Agency of South Africa, PRASA, and the Department of Water and Sanitation.

The common practice of inflated prices for procurement of goods and services are of course often due to family and friends.

The main reasons as we have stood here year in and year out, Chairperson, continue to be the fact that management remains unwilling and unable to identify and address the risk and improve management controls including internal controls.

Instability and vacancies in key positions with many unqualified municipal managers throughout the municipalities and provinces continue to affect financial management, resulting in lacklustre performance year in and year out.

Chairperson, the DA notes that the economy is growing at 0,1%. At this rate we will not achieve a long-term minimum growth of 5,4% to create the needed 11 million jobs by 2030.

We continue to give more money to departments who have previously underperformed continuously.

In conclusion, this country desperately needs to get its politics right. We have a President who is unable to steer South Africa towards karma economic waters due to his continuous corrupt behaviour and controversial relationships. Therefore, with due respect Chairperson, the Democratic Alliance cannot support this Bill. I thank you.

Ms T MOTARA: Chairperson, the Bill has the following service delivery implications which we have noted both as the committee and as the ANC that the aggregate expenditure of all votes by the end of September 2016 was 49%, with the projected under-expenditure for the financial year at R3 billion. In most instances under-expenditure speaks to a lack or slowing down of service delivery and we raised this as a concern.

Unspent funds have been declared this year as been R1,3 billion but this is compared to R3,18 billion in the 2015/16 financial year and this also speaks to service delivery which will be improved if unspent funds increase or decrease. The rollover is amounted to R412 million which is a substantial decrease when compared to the 2015/16 financial year which was at R1,6 billion rolled over. We want to see rollovers decrease because this will speak to better planning by different departments.

The ANC supports the adjusted budget as it seeks to address amongst others, the shortages that the draught has created; it seeks to stabilise the state-owned entities; deliver on our transformational agenda as the ANC which some are against realising.

We are committed to growing our economy as we continue to fund our priorities. At no stage as the ANC will we place additional burden on those we are responsible for by cutting back on our service delivery priorities.

Some of the economic programmes and strategic partnerships that government has entered into are now creating employment. Stimulating the economy and we will see those partnerships contributing directly and indirectly to the Gross Domestic Product, GDP.

We are committed to service our debt; use public funds prudently; stop wastage as well as redirect funds when an urgent need arises. We comment now, that the various government departments are making strides to adhere to Public Finance Management Act, PFMA, regulations. There are vast improvements and therefore, we as the ANC, support this Bill. Thank you Chair.

Mr M KHAWULA: South Africa continues to be plagued by a shaky and unstable leadership which has an adverse effect in the stability of the economy of the country. The recent 0,2% minimal increase report in our country’s GDP which was way below the projected 3% is a pointer that a lot of stability needs to be effected in our governance in order to move towards the economic recovery of the country.

Audit reports by the Auditor-General also continue to be a course for concern in the goings on. Irregular expenditure, fruitless expenditure and no consequence management for the culprits are some of the worrying issues.

Whilst the IFP acknowledges satisfactory performance in our National Treasury - at least politically - the continued attacks at the Minister by the state agencies is not assisting in any way.

During the course of this financial year, the IFP has queried the rationale behind intended and planned attacks at our Treasury by the state agencies. We posed a question to the Deputy President in this regard, in this very same House; the Deputy President agreed with us that this was not good for the country. I am raising this hon Chairperson because it was in December 2015 that Minister Nene was axed, probably for the same reasons that hon Gordhan is being pursued for. We sincerely hope that December 2016 will not see a repeat of December 2015 in the shake-up of government.

The IFP has always called for the country’s State Owned Enterprises to be streamlined and redirected to the line-function departments in order to avoid the continued duplication and cut costs. It is of no use to continue having a department that is overseeing State Owned Enterprises, SOEs, on behalf of other departments when they can do so on their own.

In this year’s Mid-Term Budget Policy Statement, MTBPS, the Minister has indeed called for common good spending and avoidance of unmanageable debt. Government has, in all the previous years, been calling for doing more with less; but this is not a call that is replicated in practice. The extravagant spending by Ministers;

Members of Executive Council, MECs; Premiers; Deputy Ministers and Mayors on government vehicles does not reflect a government that is concerned about doing more with less.

The IFP supports the adjusted budget like we have done in Mogale City, not because everything is smooth but because the country must continue to operate. When we raise issues as the IFP, we do so ... [Inaudible.] ... also wish to appeal to hon members that Members of Parliament are not spokespersons of departments but legislature plays oversight role over departments. I thank you Chair.

Question put: That the Bill be agreed to.

Bill accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

CONSIDERATION OF FINANACE BILL [B 21 – 2016] AND REPORT OF THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS THEREON

Declaration(s) of vote:

Mr F ESSACK: Colleagues, the Democratic Alliance cannot support the Finance Bill because we do not support unauthorised expenditure. The unauthorised expenditure incurred by the Department of Home Affairs, Transport, Water and Sanitation have amounted to millions. If you apply your mind and listen you’ll be educated.

Section 34(1a) of the Public Finance Management Act provides for the authorisation of unauthorised expenditure [Interjection.]. The DA cannot condone the overspending while South Africa continues to be faced with unemployment, overspending, poverty and inequality.

The DA cannot condone the authorisation of over R2,9 billion unauthorised expenditure between 2006 and 2013.

There continues to be a significant decline in the finalisation of financial misconduct cases nationally; and these cases have now amounted to R66,5 million in 2016 alone. Yet, further proof that this ANC government has a poor record in dealing with financial misconduct. And the Bill makes provision for unauthorised expenditure to be recovered from the responsible officials of this government, but there seems to be no respect for the law. How much money has been recovered Chairperson? Nothing, nothing, lutho.

The DA cannot and will not support this Bill. Thank you Chairperson.

Ms T MOTARA: Chairperson, I think it will assist that members explain the difference between unauthorised expenditure and fruitless and wasteful expenditure.

Unauthorised expenditure is spending that has been done without following particular processes within the PFMA. Services have been provided for, number 1, but ... [Interjection.] ... services have

been provided for but in instances for example where you could not get three quotations, the money has been spent, it may be unauthorised; it’s not fruitless it’s not wasteful. So a service has been provided. Your obsession with unauthorised expenditure is unhealthy.

The issue that we have is that the law makes provision and even the Auditor-General as well as the PFMA recognises that there will be instances where spending will happen in an unauthorised manner. And where it happens, Parliament is in a position to correct that expenditure; and that is what we are doing.

There has been unauthorised expenditure in the instance of service delivery where there has been crisis, where you have to spend over the amount of a tender, it can’t go to tender; so you have to spend the money, that is the process that we are undertaking now, it is correcting that anomaly which has taken place.

Fruitless and wasteful expenditure we also frown upon, but unauthorised expenditure is completely different from fruitless and wasteful expenditure. The Auditor-General explained it, the PFMA explains it and the law makes provision for it. It is not unlawful and in that instance we support the Finance Bill because we want to correct instances where we have spent money and we will continue to spend money whether it’s unauthorised and correct it using the law in that process. Thank you Chair.

Question put: That the Bill be agreed to.

Bill accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

The Bill accordingly agreed to.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATION – PROPOSED DIVISION OF REVENUE AND CONDITIONAL GRANT ALLOCATIONS TO MPROVINCES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT

Debate concluded.

Question put: That the Report be agreed to.

IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.

Report agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

FAREWELL SPEECHES

Mr S J MOHAI: Hon Chairperson of the NCOP, and once more distinguished special delegates and hon members, our Chief Whip of the NCOP. Today, marks the most important moment in the calendar of events in the NCOP as a premier institution of democratic

governance. This coincides with the global context of fundamental shifts in socioeconomic landscape characterised by widening levels of poverty, unemployment and inequalities, which by far surpasses the fiscal capacity of the modern democratic state.

As we reflect on the year under review, we ought to do so mindful of how these shifts impact on our assumptions and practice of democratic governance, which is our main task as a democratic Parliament. There is no doubt that failure of a democratic state to respond to these challenges diminishes the confidence of the people not only in a political party in power, but the whole concept of democratic governance.

The global pattern of lower turn out during elections is amongst key manifestations of this phenomenon. How does this narrative play itself in contemporary South African political landscape and its implication to democratic governance and its institutions? At a broad macrosocietal level, these have precipitated a renewed upsurge of racism and ultra-left regrouping and its associated danger of right wing opportunism.

Hon Chair, the ANC has never shied away from acknowledging these realities and dealing with them decisively. There is no other party in this country that has ever had such much policy discourse on radical economic transformation, people’s participation in governance and comprehensive social security like the ANC. This

discourse has translated in concrete policies in socioeconomic space, which include amongst others; 100 black industrialist programme, localisation of procurement and different forms of social grants and the rising state of expenditure on social wage.

Cognisant of these challenges, the ANC has rightly declared this year as the year of advancing people’s power, local government is in your hands with clearly defined policy priorities, that critical amongst these remain the radical socioeconomic transformation, building a democratic developmental state, fighting corruption, safety and security and sound financial management. We are confident that despite difficulties in the global economic space, our vision of a better life for all will be realised.

The ANC-led government has consistently ensured investor confidence as part of a drive to grow our economy, which has yielded positive results in many respects. It requires no rocket science to know that South Africa’s economy is one of the most resilient in the world and we owe it to the tireless efforts of our leadership in ensuring that we still focus our attention in this.

We close this year with fresh memories of true critical issues that have persistently occupied the frontline of media reports like the issue of higher education crisis and the challenges facing the ANC as a leading party of the revolution in our country. We owe the resumption of learning and writing exams to the leadership of the

Ministry of Higher Education, university principals and other organs of civil society, who rallied under the banner of safe 2016 academic year. More efforts in the form of increased budget for student loans and bursaries have been allocated as part of our intervention to address the higher education crisis. More policy dialogue is needed to address the broader challenge of higher education in transformation of our country.

South Africans across colour and political spectrum take inspiration in the manner in which the ANC has openly dealt with its internal political and organisational challenges. This is a fundamental attribute of a party of revolution that lead society beyond its membership. For the people to have trust in political party, it should be open about its challenges and deal with them in a transparent manner.

Hon chairperson, allow me as I bid farewell to my colleagues in this august House to equally express personal honour in the trust bestowed upon me by the ANC as the Chairperson of its Parliamentary Caucus. In doing this, further express my fondest appreciation of respect and support I have enjoyed from my party colleagues this year. But above all, I am equally inspired by the selfless commitment of the cadres of my organisation in serving the people of South Africa with honour and diligence.

Lastly, Chairperson, the ANC calls upon all public representatives during this festive season to join the rest of the people of South Africa whilst enjoying their season’s rest, to not lose sight of the heinous act in our communities - Those who always go all out to perpetuate violence against women, children and vulnerable people in our communities.

We need to join community struggles against these criminal activities and ensure that they are isolated for the better. We thank you, hon Chairperson, in your capacity as leader of this institution for ensuring that NCOP remains focus to attend to its very critical agenda of ensuring that the people of South Africa find the centre of discussions and debates and continue to resolve their people on daily basis. Thank you very much, hon members. [Applause.] Let’s find rest.

Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Hon Chair, as South Africans, we as many other nations at the end of the year, celebrate a tradition to prepare for the festive season. We look forward to spend more time with our loved ones, family and friends. We share stories of achievements and challenges; of failure and success and of what the future may holds for us.

In reflection of our challenges and achievements one has to acknowledge significant factors contributing to where we are today. We have a young democracy whose ultimate task is to uphold the

Constitution to its full functions, to govern responsible and effectively to ensure a future for all the people of South Africa. Our history is characterised by injustice and inequality, but also bears evidence of a resilience based on the capacity to forgive, accept and build a future on the strengths of our diversity through tolerance of our different traditions, cultures and customs.

As a nation, we embraced and started on the road of reconciliation, redress and creating a country where all South Africans have the opportunity to prosper and grow to their own full potential.

The year 2016, however, can be defined as a year with increased incidences of racism, violence, some politically inspired, poverty, a growing burden of disease and a lack of caring and empowerment of the vulnerable people in our society.

There was a slow growing economy with job losses in various sectors such as mining and a national drought disaster, which has been the worst in 50 years; a water and water infrastructure crisis, all contributing to the highest unemployment rate since 1994. The crisis in higher education on affordability for a diverse society further led to violent strikes and closing down of some colleges and universities, jeopardising the skills and qualifications of our youth, the future of our country.

South Africa faced downgrading from international agencies which culminates into investor’s insecurity and a lack of stimuli for

essential economic growth. South Africa also experienced local government elections, signifying inevitable change in the political landscape of South Africa. To be able to determine our successes and failures, we need to take a hard look at ourselves as political leaders in the NCOP.

The way we conduct our programmes in the select committees, multiparty whips meetings, programming meetings and all other structures of the Council, tells the story of our effectiveness as political leaders. I want to acknowledge the improvement in the fact that debates on notices of motions are being opened and closed by the member introducing the motion in the House, which might be of little importance to a great group of people, but displays fairness and democracy in the House as enshrined by the Constitution.

The progress has been made in the reviewing of the Rules of the Council and hopefully, it could be completed in 2017.

Our first priority, however, is to create an environment where effective, fair and good legislation is being developed to regulate important issues in society and ensure that all people of South Africa are equally protected within the various legislative frameworks.

In 2016, few Bills have been passed and sent back or are being disputed on some technical grounds and raised serious questions on the functioning of select committees and the required processes that

need to be followed in passing Bills. I want to acknowledge the implementation of authorisation of longer timelines for specifically section 76 Bills based on the nature and complexity of the Bill.

Another responsibility is to represent the issues of our people in the nine provinces in the NCOP as a platform on a national level and contribute to effective intergovernmental relations and co- operation. The NCOP’s provincial week, Taking Parliament to the People, select committees oversight programme as well as questions to the executive, oral and written, should encapsulate all these roles and functions of the NCOP.

The establishment of a High Level Panel in 2015, assessing the impact of specific legislation, should pose a question on how effective is the NCOP’s or actually the governing party’s existing model of oversight and review on the impact of policy and legislation? One good example is the 16 days of activism of violence against women and children and the assessment of the impact of the applicable Ministries.

Policy changes and interventions should be a priority for the select committee, as violence is fast becoming the norm rather than the exception in our country. The NCOP should play a meaningful role in the oversight of the impact of legislation, to determine meaningful changes such as looking at places of safety and the funding thereof, to curb this problem compared to frivolous spending on overseas trips.

Hon Chair, in looking forward to what 2017 may hold for us, I look forward to address and improve the level of all our programmes, especially the oversight functions of the select committees on the impact and necessary changes, firstly on policy, as the basis of legislation, and on legislation and regulations that give rise to our rights as well as our responsibilities as the South African citizens.

I am looking forward to further progress in the functioning of our institutional committees, determining the functioning of the Council to enhance the decorum of the House, for all of us to take political responsibility to lead this House with dignity and humility. I also want to thank all the staff members of the NCOP for their hard work, patience, guidance, advice and co-operation.

I also want to thank the Chair, the whippery, the Deputy Chair, the House Chairs, the representatives of other opposition parties and my own DA colleagues, for the robust discussions and plenaries that culminated in progress on how we fulfil our roles. I am grateful for a year where we could serve the people of South Africa and wish us all a safe and peaceful festive season. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms N P KONI: Modulasetilo, a ke tseye tšhono eno ke dumedise Maaforikaborwa ka bophara ... [Chairperson, let me take this opportunity to greet all South Africans ...]

... especially the EFF supporters, members and followers. The EFF expresses its deep sense of gratitude to over 1 million South Africans who voted for us, the masses that contributed for us to be in Parliament today. We thank you and we salute you! As the EFF, we commit ourselves never to take your votes for granted. We also vow as we have done this year, to continue putting across in both Houses of Parliament, the plight of our people.

The year 2016 has been a very successful year for the EFF in Parliament. We brought meaning to the adage that these Houses are the Parliament of the people. We vowed to force Zuma to implement the remedial action of the Public Protector and he did it. This was a clear admission that he acted criminally and has broken his oath of office. We also vowed to challenge the unjust Rules in Parliament and we did so, by forcing the Presiding Officers to embarrass themselves in courts when they defended the indefensible.

We vowed to fight for the return of our land, and we did so by forcing the ANC to prove for all, to see that it is for white capital. To the DA members, when you go for your holidays and resume work next year, please, consider giving us our land back, including you, De Beer. The ANC refused our offer to amend the Constitution to allow for the expropriation of land without compensation. We went on to pass the ideological ... [Interjections.]

THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Koni, please, take your seat! Hon Julius, you are on your feet?

Mr J W W JULIUS: Chairpeson, I want to know whether hon Koni want to stay in a shack in my yard? Where is the land that I have taken from her?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: That was not a

point of order. Hon Koni, please continue!

Ms N P KONI: Here in this Council, we have stretched the limits of what was deemed possible, by making this Council not to sit on its laurels, with little regard for our people. For that, we were bitten, brutalised and made to look as if we are the skunk of the earth. We shall continue on this journey, as our revolutionary duties oblige us to follow without fear, after criminals and their stooges.

As we depart for the end of the year, the EFF wishes you all, except the land thieves, an enjoyable festive season. Go back home and enjoy your time with families. Please, don’t drink and drive, condomise or abstain. The struggle shall continue. Salute!

Mr L B GAEHLER: Chairperson, today as a collective entrusted with a huge responsibility by the people of this country, we say goodbye to the year which was full of achievements; yet expose many challenges

to be confronted. We should therefore take advantage of the good work we did and use this break to amass more energy and skills to deal with a day-to-day issue that continued to confront the poorest of the poor.

Madam Chair, on behalf of the UDM, let me convey a word of gratitude to you for your sterling leadership, you have always displayed directing this House towards achieving its constitutional mandate.

This applies equally to all Presiding Officers. In the same vein, we recognise and welcome the leadership of the Chief Whip and the Whippery, including the multiparty Whippery - you have done very well. We thank you for that. To all my colleagues in the House and outside the House, madam Dlamini and all that ...

... siyanibulela kakhulu ngokusebenzisana kakuhle singajonganga ukuba siphuma kweyiphi imibutho. Sisebenzisene kakuhle boomama nootata, uThixo makanisikelele ninonke. Okubalulekileyo zizinto zeli lizwe esihleli kulo ekufuneka sizijonge. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[... we thank you for your teamwork, without separating us according to our political parties. We manage to work collectively as colleagues, May the Grace of the Lord be with you all the time. The most important thing we must do is to look after the things which are in this world.]

The backroom staff that worked tirelessly with no complaints; we are extremely thankful for unwavering support to the members of this House and the work tasked to do for the nation as long as there’s poverty, unemployment, inequality and corruption. Our collective commitment and dedication shall always be relevant in this regard.

The UDM wishes all members to go back home safely and spend more time with your families.

Ningazuli yonke indawo le bafana, indoda ihlala endlwini yayo. Niyeke le nto besiyenza apha eKapa nto zakuthi. Nindincede nijongane neentsapho zenu kwaye niziphe ithuba lokuhlala nabantwana benu.

Yintoni ngoku? (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[You should not wander around, guys; you should be at home all the time. You should not do what we were doing here in Cape Town.

Please, you must protect your families and give yourselves a chance to spend time with your children. What is happening?]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Gaehler,

please take your seat. Hon Nyambi? [Interjections.] Hon Nyambi?

Mr A J NYAMBI: Hon Chairperson, on a point of order, I understand it’s his farewell speech, but I am checking is it parliamentary for hon Gaehler to refer to us as bafana? [Laughter.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Well, it is a

farewell speech; it’s supposed to be lighter than all you members are making it. It is supposed to be venturing ...

Mr L B GAEHLER: Lastly, we want to thank everybody for the sterling work that you have done. You must also remember our enemy is poverty. We can differ politically, but the enemy is poverty; it’s our people out there. People won’t have any money to buy Christmas lunches - that is our enemy. Collectively, in different parties, we must help to fight poverty in this country.

Kubantu bakuthi, mama uSamka masithembe ukuba xa sibuya kwiiholide akusayi kubakho bantu basweleke ezingozini zeemoto. Ngoko ke siyabacela ukuba bakhe bathi xha ekuseleni utywala baphinde baqhube iimoto. Umntu makazithengele into yakhe, ahambe aye kuhlala emzini wakhe nabantwana bakhe aze aselele apho. Kaloku ibuhlungu into yokusoloko kusifa umntu ontsundu ezindleleni.

Siyayazi ukuba amapolisa asebenza kanzima kodwa nathi kuyafuneka ukuba sibancedise. Kufuneka sithabathele kuthi uxanduva lwethu. Siyathemba ukuba uThixo uza kubagcina kule holide oomongikazi, oogqirha, amapolisa ngokubanzi kunye namajoni. Siyayazi ukuba abathathi-ntweni, wanga uThixo angabagcina bayitye kamnandi iKresimesi. Mama uze uyeke nalento yokusoloko uzibabaza ukuba iminyaka ihambile xa uphazamileyo, awukagugi kakhulu. Uyitye kakuhle ke mama iKresimesi nabantwana bakho, ubuye udlamkile kwaye umtsha.

Siyabulela kuni nonke nangentsebenziswano. KuSihlalo uMohai, osisoloko siqhulana kamnandi, ungusibari wam kuba uthathe ngaphaya eMpuma Koloni kodwa awukaloboli. Enkosi. [Kwahlekwa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Colleagues, Mrs Samka, let us hope that when we get back from the holidays there won’t be deaths caused by car accidents. We also plead that our drivers should not drink and drive. If one really wants to drink, he or she must buy his or her alcohol but drink it at home. It is sad to lose our brothers and sisters because of road accidents.

We know that the police are working very hard but as citizens we should also lend a helping hand. We must look after ourselves. We hope that the Lord will be with the nurses and doctors and take note of the police officers and soldiers during this holiday time. We know that they are doing their job. May the Lord be with them and may they enjoy their Christmas. Mrs Samka, you must stop telling us that you are old when you have made a mistake; you are not so old.

You should enjoy and have a joyful Christmas with your children, and come back energetic and young in mind. We also thank everyone, with your co-operation. As to the Chairperson, hon Mohai, whom I always joke with, he is my brother-in-law because his wife is from the Eastern Cape but he still needs to pay lobola. Thank you. [Laughter.]]

Mnu M KHAWULA: Ngiyathokoza Sihlalo ohloniphekile, mangiqale ngokukhuleka eSilweni samaZulu, iqasa likahasi inkomo ethandwa zibawu, ubhejane odla abakayise, ngithi Silo nendlunkulu yonke egameni leqembu leNkatha sithi abantwana baseNdlunkulu babe nesikhathi esimnandi samaholidi. Ngize kuMntwana wakwaPhindangene uNdunankulu wakwaZulu, umongameli weqembu leNkatha Shenge, Sokwalisa uqhubeke njalo ngokuseluleka kahle nokusihola kahle. Ngiqhubeke Sihlalo ngiye kubaholi beqembu leNkatha nabo bonke nama-federal ngithi ... (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[Mr M KHAWULA: Thank you hon Chairperson, let me start by greeting His Majesty the King of the Zulus, iqasa likahasi inkomo ethandwa zibawu, ubhejane odla abakayise [reciting the King’s praise names], I am saying to His Majesty and his royal household on behalf of the IFP may the royal household have a nice time during the holidays.

And coming to the Prince of KwaPhindangene the Prime Minister of KwaZulu the president of the IFP, I am saying: Shenge, Sokwalisa [clan names of the Buthelezis] you should continue giving us good advice and good leadership. Chairperson, let me get to the leaders of the IFP, everyone else as well as the federals, and say ...]

... IFP, you worked very well in 2016. We salute you. On behalf of uMntwana I want to thank you. Go on doing good work on the ground and hard work because we can see that in 2019 we can even do much better.

Izwe liyayidinga Inkatha. Ngakho-ke qhubekani nihambe niyokhulula abantu emaketangweni obubha, ebuqgileni abakubona abantu nibakhulule ma-federal. [The country needs the IFP. Therefore, carry on by going out there releasing people from chains of poverty, dear federals release them from slavery that people find themselves in.]

Chairperson, I want to salute His Excellency, the President of the country ...

... Msholozi nomndeni wakho nibenesikhathi niphumule, ubuye unyaka uma uqala ziyaduma. Mhlonishwa Sekela ubaba uRamaphosa nomndeni wakhe sithi nibenesikhathi esihle. [... Msholozi [clan name of the Zumas] and your family make time and relax, come back at the beginning of the year as it would be tough. Hon Deputy President Ramaphosa and your family have a nice time.]

On behalf of uMntwana and the IFP, I want to say to the government, you are our government irrespective that we did not fight for you. I want to thank uMntwana for instilling discipline to the IFP. This is one great contribution which will always be our legacy in the IFP that uMntwana is a father to us and to the South Africa. Whenever we take a step, we think of him first before taking that step.

Chair, let me come back to the House and say ...

...Sihlalo, omuhle ohloniphekile siyakuthanda ngendlela osiphethe ngayo. [Ubuwelewele.] Usiphethe njengomama futhi ungumama wethu

sonke. [... hon beautiful Chairperson, we love you for the way you are treating us. [Interjections.] You are treating us like a mother and you are the mother to all of us.]

You see, there is something very peculiar about you, Chairperson. You are very IFP like [Interjections.] Had the IFP been born before the ANC was born, I am sure you would have been one of the leaders of the IFP because your character is very much IFP. [Interjections.] Chairperson, thank you very much for your leadership and your guidance. We also wish to send our good and well wishes to the Deputy Chairperson wherever he is. We wish you, Mr Tau a speedy recovery so that you can comeback and remind us that the time is up. Don’t do that to me, Chair. Bab’uTau and your family have a good time.

The presiding officers, our House Chair, Mr Nyambi who always jump at the first instance at kicking the EFF out of the House, and also to Ms Dikgale thank you for leading us; we say the same to all our colleagues in the ANC, Mr Mohai and your team, to mama Cathy, to a colleague who is a communist, Mr Parkies. Some of the people do not know that these two are colleagues when we are in meetings. We say to Ms Labuschagne and your team thank you very much for the co— operation. We say the same to the EFF, my brother in the UDM and brothers from the IFP thank you very much for that.

I also want to thank the Chief Whip, our mother for being who she is to us, the staff, Adv Phindela and his team for always being our supportive team behind the scene, as well as our staff in the IFP caucus. Lastly Chairperson, let me also express gratitude to the members who were with us in the beginning of the year, who are now being redeployed back to their provinces by their parties doing whatever, hon Van Lingen the new Mayor there in the Eastern Cape and my friend, the hon Mtileni. My brother, wherever you are, we miss you here. I thank you, Chair. [Applause.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson of the Council, hon members, special delegates, ladies and gentlemen, first and foremost, on your behalf may I congratulate the august lady in the Chair. She has just been given the Zimbabwe Achiever Award for Gender Equality, Women’s Rights and Friend of Zimbabwe. [Applause.]

What a year we have had. The year 2016 flew by like a second. Just like that. This is not the end of a year; it is the middle of the 5th year term of Parliament. As delegates of our provinces we were deployed here to come and serve the people of this country ... our people.

By now, routine, procedures and arrangements of our Council are firmly in place in our minds. As cogs of the same machine, we move in sync in whatever we do. Lest we forget, the preamble to the

Constitution reminds us that the over fifty million citizens of this country expect us to:

Heal the divisions of the past and establish a society based on democratic values, social justice and fundamental human rights. Improve the quality of life of all citizens and free the potential of each person.

I would like to focus on the commitment and unity we have shown throughout this year as South Africans, united in our diversity to advance the interests of the people of South Africa, particularly the provinces that deployed us to represent their interests in this august House.

I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate each and every one of you ... of us here for the outstanding work that we have done. As a collective, we truly remained focused on the national mandate to be the voices and servants of our people. In our debates we disagreed in order to agree. Our interactions have proved that with unity of purpose it is possible to work together side by side for the common good, irrespective of colour or creed and irrespective of party affiliation.

Interactions in this House have proved that a united, democratic, nonracial, nonsexist and prosperous society is possible. The engine rooms of the institution, which are our committees, have performed

as expected. Allow me to thank and congratulate the chairpersons of our committees for their tireless efforts and dedication. You are truly the drivers of the engine room of our Parliament.

Indeed, the work of committees clearly shows that the activist Parliament that we have committed to advance continues to derive its mandate from the people it serves. Our community outreach activities that are supported by programmes such as Taking Parliament to the People and the Provincial Week continue to be a platform for our people to express and articulate their needs. That is what the 5th Parliament should strive to accomplish.

Our late former President Rolihlahla Nelson Mandela, a chief architect of our democracy once said: ?The nation has put its trust? in Members of Parliament and ours ?is the almost sacred duty to ensure government by the people under the Constitution." You have all excelled in your duty to be the voices of our people and to represent their interests.

One of the first tasks that we have set ourselves when we return in 2OI7 is to work with the House Chairperson on Committees and Oversight with the committee chairpersons and whips to ensure that each and every committee has a committee management committee to plan and give political leadership to the work of our committees.

This is based on a number of requests that we have received to move

with greater urgency and determination to ensure that our committees have uniform management processes and systems.

I would like to take this opportunity to thank and congratulate the provincial whips and the party representatives for their diligence and utmost commitment to continue to support the presiding officers with the daily political management of the work of the NCOP.

Furthermore, I would also like to thank the provincial whips and the various representatives of political parties for their commitment to successfully put the needs of our country and its people above those of their own organisations.

This term of this House will not only be marked as robust but it has also been an exciting and interesting period, particularly in this corner here. Those who sit around here really know how to spice it up. This House once again served as a platform for robust, lively and open debates and although we had our differences, often important and sometimes profound, we have as a collective demonstrated our overriding commitment to ensure that the NCOP fulfils its function of participating in the national lawmaking process and to provide a national forum for public debates of provincial issues and for legislative intergovernmental relations.

On behalf of the leadership of the Council, particularly the Chairperson of our Council and the rest of the presiding officers, I

would like to pass on our profound appreciation to all our hon members for their profound dedication and commitment to serve our people. As once said by His Excellency President Jacob Zuma:

... no other institution in the country can showcase our beautiful and rich diversity as a nation quite as succinctly as the NCOP. This House is the point of convergence of the three spheres of government, which quite uniquely positions it as the bedrock of integrated and co-operative governance. It is the forum where issues of critical importance to the provinces and local government are debated on a national platform.

Provinces have also come to the party as and when the call was made to them; hence, a perception by communities out there that the NCOP is a well-organised and dignified House where humour and mutual respect are the order of the day.

Allow me to take this opportunity to also express our profound gratitude to the provincial legislatures, especially the provincial Speakers, Chief Whips, chairs of chairs, chairpersons of provincial committees and provincial whips in this House for their co—operation and assistance in our national task to advance the interests of provinces, particularly with the processing of section 76 Bills and the participation of special delegates in the work of this august House.

Together, we collectively took a principled oath, committing to serve the people of South Africa with integrity and respect, in order to move South Africa forward. We have done our bit to make sure this House keeps its eye on the ball that is, focus on the needs of the provinces and being the loud voice of our communities.

I must not be misunderstood to be saying that we are a legion of angels in this House. Where in the course of doing our work things happen the way they should not, the robust mechanisms of Parliament do bring things back to normal. Without sounding personal, I mean situations like the one motion presented to this House the other day about the Chief Whip of the Council, need not defocus ourselves from the noble duty of serving our people and advancing the mandate of our Council. The robust mechanisms inherent in our democratic Parliament will unearth the truth and make sure justice prevails. I am also confident that the integrity of those concerned will also remain untarnished.

Allow me to take this moment to thank the voiceless and faceless machinery of staff of the NCOP that continue to work tirelessly to support us. I would like to pay a special tribute and acknowledgement of the invaluable support of the staff in the office of the Chief Whip.

Hon Chairperson, I also want to take this opportunity to thank you and the team of presiding officers for managing the business of the

House through a fair and impartial application and interpretation of the Rules, conventions, practices and precedents. I bid you farewell in the words of Martin Luther King who said:

Everybody can be great because anybody can serve. You don't have to have a college degree to serve your people. You don't have to make your subject and verb agree to serve. You only need a heart full of grace; a soul generated by love for your people and community.

In closing, as we leave for our various provinces, let us enjoy our families, our neighbours and our spiritual associations. Let us also enjoy the festive season but let’s remember to do things in moderation. I thank you. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon members,

we rarely have time to sit as Members of this House and to speak frankly amongst ourselves. We usually hide between party, caucus, provincial and whatever.

The truth is that we are halfway through the five-year term. The truth is that we are simply born of men and women and we have been together since mid-2014. The truth is that we are humans who must associate, who by now should understand one another’s languages, moods, likes and dislikes. The truth is that we should begin to

coalesce into a formidable House that will begin to propagate and serve the Parliament of South Africa.

Now, we have done a number of interesting things this year. The last Taking Parliament to the People in the Eastern Cape cost us far less than all the others before, and that was largely because we ourselves were in doubt whether focussing on an area or going in a joint venture with a province would ever deliver. Sometimes, when we hold on to what was and are scared to be a little bit adventurous, but never to be free to risk anything that does not belong in our own bank balances ... So, we must always be adventurous on the right side and never risk the public purse. That is what we have been trying to do.

I appreciate that we have had frank discussions in the House. I appreciate this because I started debating at while higher primary schools. I led debates throughout my life at secondary schools. I was a commissar and a commander in a particular military entity.

I must say that, in 2014, I despaired at the quality of the debates that took place in this House. I must tell you that I go home this December thinking, hey, we have come a long way. We are beginning to debate issues and not people. We are even beginning to say — even though, as political parties, we do not agree — on this particular issue we object, but we will support because it serves the greater

good, and that is what we are all about as public representatives. [Applause.]

I think we should also commend the committee I have always Whipped. It is not the petitions committee by the way. The committee I have sat on and pummelled and beaten is the committee that deals with local government and traditional affairs. They have actually managed to deal better and faster with issues of local government. [Applause.] They have held more workshops and brought in more expertise from outside to interrogate their mandate than any other committee. I must say that one is beginning to say that, one day, when we have passed through ... And the Bill dealing with interventions on sections 100, 139 and 154 is ready to be introduced into the legislature. Perhaps that is the Bill that will give the NCOP teeth to say yes or no, or to say that we will amend because we don’t think an intervention should be going a particular direction; it should be going in another direction.

So, if I say to you that I am not a little bit proud of the NCOP I would be lying. We have, however, not been doing things quite well and that is why we undertook a discussion and a tour. I am happy to say that most of the tours I have been on were paid for by the people who extended the invitation.

To look at how the NCOP can do better we have been visiting sister Houses. We think that there are things we can do better, if we look

at other Houses. We think that the enthusiasm within the ruling party to engage with recommendations which would improve the workings of the NCOP is very encouraging.

We also think we who serve in the NCOP should not always say that we are doing badly. Sometimes we do exceptionally well. Sometimes, even when we are angry and at each others’ throats, we still do our best because we know that some of our compatriots had given their lives for democracy. The fact that we don’t all belong to one party and one ideology is good for democracy. The fact that we don’t always agree, even within parties, is good for internal democracies because you cannot entrench and grow democracy if all you want to do is reduce yourself to a nodding head — yes, yes, yes — while the brain atrophies because we do not want to exercise it.

So, I want to thank you, my colleagues, on behalf of Adv Phindela and staff that some of you have been gracious with us as staff. Some of you have been atrocious. And those of you who have been atrocious

... we have not hesitated to tell you in your ears. And some of you who have been exceptionally well with our staff ... we are happy.

We also want to say that, as the administration, we have messed up Members of Parliament. We apologise and we hope that 2017 means a completely new page.

I think we must also remember our colleague, hon Van Lingen, and wish her well. I hope that she is beginning to recover. I actually do miss her banter from that desk. In the same vein, I think that we should also wish hon Rayi. There is something wrong there with the air in the Eastern Cape. You guys get too sick. We wish you well.

I also want to ... [Interjections.]

Ehe lomqombothi unento. [Hey there is something in this african beer.]

English:

I want to also think that the House will join me in hoping that our Deputy Chair recovers quickly. I think that many of us here have lost loved ones in 2016. Many of us have lost people we can’t even openly acknowledge, but in that pain, colleagues, we are with you.

I want to close with the words of Eisenhower who cautioned his countrymen when he said:

We must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering at our own ease and convenience the precious resources of tomorrow.

In other words, colleagues, we are duty-bound to leave in a better state whatever it is that we have found. We cannot mortgage the

future. We cannot tarnish the quality of the democracy which we must leave for our people. We cannot run the NCOP bereft of morality.

I want to plead this for 2017. It does not matter how you feel. I really struggle with myself when we object motions of condolence and obituaries of people who have passed on. I want to say that sanity must prevail. We must question whether that, you know, talks to ... You know, when we debate condolence motions, we sends transcripts of the condolences to families. What must they think of us?

I am that side of 50, and when you are that side of 50 you reach a point where you are not scared of anything or anybody. You want to start working towards helping people who will be standing on your grave to understand better who you are. That is why it is important sometimes to unashamedly question all of us. They say that truth is always a better weapon. Vindicating victims is always a noble thing. Going out after the poor and the voiceless is always a good thing.

So, I am hoping that we will travel well. Don’t do what I don’t do. Whatever it is that I don’t do that you are going to do, colleagues, do it in moderation.

Drive safely because most of us do not live for ourselves. We live for our communities and for our families.

So, I want to wish you well. I wish you a very good Christmas for you. Let us see you well and fine and spritely. Let us see you prioritising South Africa and prioritising our provinces. Let us say thank to those who come from provinces to speak with us. Sometimes, they have to listen to us going through our energetic and sometimes very pointless discussions. But that is what provinces come here for. They come to utilise the national platform to push the agenda of provinces and we must help provinces to do that. We must help local government to do that.

Therefore hon members, I wish you well. Travel safely. Let us have broader smiles and bigger debates and healthier bodies next year.

Debate concluded.

The Council adjourned at 13:22.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Bills passed by Houses – to be submitted to President for assent

(1) Bills passed by National Council of Provinces on 9 December 2016:

(a) Adjustments Appropriation Bill [B 16 – 2016] (National Assembly – sec 77).

(b) Finance Bill [B 21 – 2016] (National Assembly – sec 77).

National Council of Provinces

The Chairperson

1. Membership of Committees

(1) The following changes to committee membership have been made:

Economic Freedom Fighters

Select Committee on Finance

* Appointed: Hon. Ms B. T Mathevula (EFF –Limpopo)

* Discharged: Hon. Mr. V E Mtileni (EFF-Limpopo)

Select Committee on Appropriations

* Appointed: Hon. Ms B. T Mathevula (EFF –Limpopo)

* Discharged: Hon. Mr. V E Mtileni (EFF-Limpopo)

Select Committee on Land and Mineral Resources (Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, Rural Development and Land Reform, Environmental Affairs and Mineral Resources)

* Appointed: Hon. Ms B. T Mathevula (EFF –Limpopo) – (Alternate)

* Discharged: Hon. Mr. V E Mtileni (EFF-Limpopo) – (Alternate)

Select Committee on Communications and Public Enterprises (Communications, Telecommunications and Postal Services, Science and Technology and Public Enterprises)

* Appointed: Hon. Ms B. T Mathevula (EFF –Limpopo) – (Alternate)

* Discharged: Hon. Mr. V E Mtileni (EFF-Limpopo) – (Alternate)

Joint Standing Committee on Defence

* Appointed: Hon. Ms B. T Mathevula (EFF –Limpopo)

* Discharged: Hon. Mr. V E Mtileni (EFF-Limpopo)

COMMITTEE REPORTS

National Council of Provinces

1. Report of the Select Committee on Security and Justice on the Justice Administered Fund Bill [B26– 2015] (National Assembly – sec 75), dated 8 December 2016:

The National Assembly referred the Justice Administered Fund Bill [B26– 2015] (the Bill) to the National Council of Provinces for concurrence on 8 November 2016. The Bill was referred by the National Council of Provinces to the Select Committee on Security and Justice for consideration and report on 8 November 2016.

The Select Committee enquired into the subject of the Bill and invited the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development to brief the Select Committee on the purpose and content of the Bill on 8 November 2016.

The Select Committee noted that the Bill was not considered controversial in nature. The Department of Justice and Constitutional Development administers certain funds on behalf of third parties. The Bill seeks to address existing gaps in the governance and administration of Third Party Funds (TPF) by providing for the establishment of a Justice Administered Fund to regulate the management, control, investment and use of money in the Fund.

The Select Committee, in keeping with the principle of facilitating public involvement in the legislative processes of the NCOP, agreed to facilitate public participation by advertising the Bill on SABC radio stations SAfm, Ukhozi FM and Radio 2000. The Select Committee also published the advertisement on the Parliamentary website and other social media online platforms between 8 - 26 November 2016. The Select Committee received no submissions on the Bill.

The Select Committee on Security and Justice invited the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development to a meeting on 30 November 2016 and after deliberations, the Select Committee

considered the subject of the Justice Administered Fund Bill [B 26– 2015] (National Assembly – sec

75) referred to it, and reports that it has agreed to the Bill without proposed amendments.

Report to be considered.

Audio

No related

Documents

No related documents

Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised hansard

House: National Council of Provinces

Date of Meeting: 09 Dec 2016

Summary

Minutes

Audio

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