Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 07 Dec 2016

Summary

No summary available.

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Minutes

UNREVISED HANSARD

 

WEDNESDAY, 7 DECEMBER 2016

 

 

PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

 

The House met at 14:03.

 

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

 

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

 

The SPEAKER: Hon members, I wish to acknowledge the presence in the gallery of WO M Groenewald and Sgt M D Khumalo from the Parow SA Police Service. These two officers have been involved in cases dealing with the protection of children‘s rights. They are my guests today. You are welcome to Parliament. [Applause.] They are right up at the back, in the last row.

 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY

 

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT:

 

Details relating to application of proposed minimum wage to South African citizens and and foreign nationals

 

 

21. Mr B H Holomisa (UDM) asked the Deputy President:

 

 

Whether, in light of the fact that private employers, particularly in the hospitality industry and the agricultural sector, employ and allegedly exploit foreign nationals whom they pay meagre salaries, the proposed minimum wage of R3 500 will also cover the allegedly exploited foreign nationals working in South Africa; if  not, what is the plan to avoid loss of employment by South African citizens in favour of foreign nationals; if so,  what are the relevant details? NO3109E

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Madam Speaker, let me, at the outset, offer an apology in advance for the members of the executive who are not here. [Interjections.] They are still in a Cabinet meeting. [Interjections.] This is the last Cabinet meeting of the year. [Interjections.] They should be joining us shortly.

So, they are currently involved in a number of discussions, and what occasioned the delay was also just doing the budgetary allocations and all that. [Interjections.] So, I offer that apology in advance, particularly in view of the fact that one of

 

the questions also has to do with the attendance of members of the executive in Parliament, which I will deal with in due course. [Interjections.]

 

 

With regard to the question that has been raised by the hon Holomisa, I would like to say that our labour laws cover all employees in South Africa, regardless of nationality and where they come from.

 

 

When an employment relationship exists, all the rights and obligations enjoyed by South Africans, and particularly workers in this case, in terms of our labour laws, those laws also apply to foreign nationals who are working in our country. There are currently sectoral wage determinations that prescribe conditions of employment and minimum wages for the hospitality, as well as the agricultural sectors of our economy. Should any employer pay wages that are below what is prescribed in the sectoral determination, such an employer will be flouting our labour laws.

 

 

Before a foreign national can be employed – as I am sure we all know – an employer needs to secure a work permit for a foreign national employee. However, an employer can apply for a work permit for a foreign national in instances where the prospective

 

employee possesses what we would call a critical or scarce skill not available in our labour market.

 

 

The social partners in Nedlac are currently engaged in deliberations on the recommendations that were put forward by an advisory panel on the minimum wage. Once agreement has been reached on the level at which this minimum wage, or a minimum wage, will be set, it will cover all employees in our country, regardless of their nationality. Employers who do not comply, whether their employees are South African or whether they come from other countries, will face penalties.

 

 

The national minimum wage, in the end, should not be seen as a recommended wage. It is a wage that forms the floor below which no employee may be paid in South Africa. Once implemented, the national minimum wage will significantly improve the position of the lowest paid workers in our country. Currently, up to 47% of working people in our country earn below R3 500. All of 50% of the people working in our country also earn below R4 000, and 51% of South Africans live on less than R1 036 per month.

 

 

If we have a minimum wage, which could be agreed to by the social partners at Nedlac, it will be a radical shift with regard to addressing the issue of wage inequality in our

 

country. When you have so many people earning less than R3 500, and we estimate that these would number between 6,5 and

7 million people, this minimum wage would, in many ways, begin to lift as many people as 6,5 million South Africans who are currently labouring under what I would call wage poverty.

 

 

Once this is done, it basically is a start. It should be seen as a launching pad to improve wage equality in our country, to begin to deal with not only wage inequality but also poverty and inequality. It will assist in reducing, yes, poverty. In this regard, we have had to have a very good balance between wages that people can begin to live on and asking whether we want to have a minimum wage that could destroy jobs.

 

 

In this case, what the panel has done is to craft a balance – a balance in terms of not having a minimum wage that is too low as to have no impact whatsoever. In this case, the impact will affect 6,5 million people. That is a lot of people. The other balance was whether you have it so high that it ends up destroying jobs. That is where the panel is and, if I may inform members, currently the social partners in Nedlac are busy consulting with their constituencies. We will have a meeting where each of the constituencies, including government, the labour movement, business, as well as community-based

 

organisations will come back and give their own view on what their response is to this wage that has been suggested by the panel, which is R20 per hour for South Africans. In the end, no worker in South Africa should earn less than R20 per hour.

 

 

If accepted, we are going to be in a new environment, and it could be an environment that could begin to address the issue of inequality and poverty in our country. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Dr B H HOLOMISA: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon the Deputy President. A lot of South Africans are finding it difficult to work in the construction, hospitality and farming industries or sectors because employers are refusing to pay them decent salaries. Instead, they prefer employing illegal foreign nationals and paying them meagre salaries whilst working under exploitative conditions.

 

 

The question is the following: What are the practical policy mechanisms and regulatory instruments envisaged in the proposed national minimum wage intended to enforce its implementation and compliance, stop the exploitation of illegal immigrants, create equal job opportunities for all, and restore the dignity of an African worker? Thank you.

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Madam Speaker, in crafting a minimum wage, one of the issues is that you don‘t want to craft a minimum wage that will just remain on the statute books. You want a minimum wage that will be implemented and applied. In this case, the proposal from the panel is that we should set up institutional mechanisms that are going to ensure that, firstly, the minimum wage itself is reviewed from time to time and, secondly, that we ensure implementation.

 

 

In the end, implementation will be the key in ensuring that employers do comply with the minimum wage that will have been set. We are certain that once the minimum wage is broadly accepted and the application thereof kicks in, we would be able to set up mechanisms of making sure that employers do indeed comply. If they don‘t comply, there will be penalties. There will have to be penalties for those employers that do not comply.

 

 

I have no doubt that we will find that many employers who are currently represented at the negotiating table by their various associations will comply. In the negotiations we are involved in, various business sectors are represented by a number of serious people we are negotiating with. So, they will be sending the message through to them.

 

Now, the other important thing, of course, is that the panel has recommended that there should be an adjustment period, a period that is given to employers to adjust. Those who are paying below the minimum wage should know once agreement has been reached, and it is announced, that they now have a certain period during which they should adjust. The panel has suggested that the real implementation time should be 2019, but the negotiating partners at Nedlac are still going to deliberate on that time period. It may be slightly earlier, or it may be 2019. That should give employers sufficient time to adjust, to understand the rules, and to know how the regulations are going to be applied.

 

 

We are certain that, in the main, you will find that there will be a good measure of compliance. Where there is no compliance, there obviously will be penalties. Thank you very much.

 

 

Mr I M OLLIS: Speaker, through you to the Deputy President: Wage inequality should concern us all in this House. I want to talk to you about the minimum wage for workers in the blanket sector in the textile industry. They are an example of where the bargaining council has set the current minimum wage between R11,28 and R13,47 per hour, which is about half of the proposed R20 per hour proposed in the national minimum wage.

 

How does your government intend saving jobs in the textile industry with a one-size-fits-all national minimum wage at

R20 per hour? The industry is vulnerable to cheap imports, and they cannot pass on the costs to their customers. As a result, thousands of textile jobs could be lost, but I suppose your government has a record of losing jobs – 136 000 lost in the last quarter alone.

 

 

At the end of the day, won‘t you agree that sectoral minimum wages proposed by the DA will ensure less job losses than a one- size-fits-all national minimum wage as proposed? [Applause.]

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you, hon Speaker. Sectoral minimum wages have been in application or in existence in our country for a long time. Whilst they have been in existence, you have had almost seven million people earning less than R3 500 and living in what we call wage poverty. Whilst they are working they continue to remain poor.

 

 

Now, what the minimum wage really aims to do in the end is to lift the earnings of South Africans but to do so in a very careful manner, and yes, to have a wage of, say, R20 an hour, could ostensibly be slightly more than 50% of the numbers that you have quoted.

 

At the negotiating table we are mindful ... very mindful ... of the job losses that could ensue once a national minimum wage is put in place and we are now saying that we should find a way of mitigating the job losses.

 

 

All over the world when a minimum wage is set it is accompanied by job losses, and what then should happen ... a responsible government and a responsible nation, be it employers or unions or anyone else, should then ask themselves, what can we do to mitigate the job losses?

 

 

At the National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, level we are beginning to deal with that matter. What are we going to do to mitigate these losses? Interestingly, some of the thoughts and the proposals are coming from the employers. The employers are the ones that are saying, right, if we accept this, what should all of us collectively do to mitigate those losses? Interesting proposals are being put on the table, and of course one of the overarching ones is that we need a period during which employers can adjust. The period between, say, December of this year and, as envisaged by the panel, the implementation period of 2019, will give employers sufficient time to adjust their own budgets and their operations to envisage a R20 an hour.

 

Now, having done so, the panel has also said that there will be exemptions. Exemptions can be applied for. Businesses that are in distress and sectors that are in distress will, on an evidence-based process, be able to go to the institution that will be set up and apply for exemptions. They will then be able to put forward their books and say, we want an exemption for such and such a period, and all that.

 

 

All over the world ... all over the world ... minimum wages are subject to exemptions. So, it‘s not a one size fits all. Yes, we are saying that there should be a minimum wage of general application but having said that, we are also saying that there will be sectors of the economy and there will be certain businesses that go through stress from time to time, and those need to be exempted for a certain time period to allow the business to adjust itself.

 

 

The real matter here is whether South Africa is prepared to continue existing with a whole horde of workers — up to seven million — in wage poverty. That is the question we should ask ourselves. Is this something that we are prepared to countenance or are we saying we want to lift the livelihoods of our people?

 

Now this measure that has been proposed by the panel is aimed at lifting South Africans who are in employment in terms of their wages and I think we should embrace that. We should not dismiss this measure. It is going to be a very, very radical measure that is going to add a better livelihood to our people.

 

 

So those who dismiss it are obviously saying to us that we want to have our people continuing to live in wage poverty, and we and the panel believe that that is not the way to go. We should be going the way of giving our people a better life and this is where we start. This is just the beginning to address the poverty and the inequality that exists in our country.

 

 

Countries that have embraced the minimum wage have seen the livelihoods of their own people go up, and in fact in other cases the economy has responded positively to wages that have been lifted because as soon as workers start earning higher wages the money they earn is not put under the mattress but it is money that goes back into the economy. It could result in more jobs being created and more products being put on the table.

 

So I urge all of us as South Africans, let us embrace the notion of a national minimum wage. It is the right thing to do for our people. [Applause.]

 

 

Mr M N PAULSEN: Thank you very much, Speaker. Deputy President, I find it quite ironic that at a Castro memorial you said we must all be like Castro. You must be the last one to speak.

 

 

The proposal is a R20 per hour with some adjustments here and there in 2019, with no gains for workers between now and then. This level will be less or equal to what sectoral determination would be in any case should they continue in the current manner.

 

 

Is the proposal not an extreme compromise, like our 1994 negotiated settlement where we had this violent transition, that instead of bringing back the humanity of the majority of the working class, it has once again entrenched inequality and not done anything to restore their dignity and pay them a real living wage, as we proposed in 2014 ...

 

 

The SPEAKER: Hon member, do you have a question, because your minute is gone?

 

Mr M N PAULSEN: ... of R4 500 which, if we had a nine per cent annum inflation increase, would have been R5 000 by now. So Deputy President, my question, if you saw it there, is would it not have been better to provide for the dignity of the working class as opposed to entrenching the inequality that exists?

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you very much, hon Speaker. Hon Paulsen, the thing that you should be looking at is that we are sitting at Nedlac. As you well know, Nedlac is made up of business, labour, community and government. Now, I often look at this composition of South Africans as the brains trust of people who are dealing with economic matters that affect the nation.

They are people who on a daily basis are sitting down, crunching numbers and looking at the impact of everything that happens in our country — the budget and including the laws that we pass here.

 

 

Those are the people who I defer to for their wisdom, for their counsel and for their foresight. They have been given this task of crafting a minimum wage. The figure was proposed by a panel that reviewed the proposals that were made by all these social partners in Nedlac. Each one of them came with different figures. The panel then put all these figures together and

 

looked at a median wage that could be applied in our country, and put a figure on the table.

 

 

It is not my figure nor is it your figure. You have a different figure and I may have a different figure, but these are people who are crunching numbers that impact on the lives of people.

Now, the panel has suggested R20 an hour. The social partners are going to discuss this. They will arrive at a figure. It may be the same. It may be different but in the end we should respect them for having come up with a solution that begins to address the issue of wage inequality in our country.

 

 

They are no longer just talking in the wind. They are dealing with a real figure that is on the table. Hon Paulsen, it is a figure that is going to impact on the lives of seven million people. A total of seven million people will be impacted by this.

 

 

Should it have been at R4 500? Of course it could well have been. However, at the same time the panel says that if you peg it that high then you are going to lose many more jobs because the issue of job losses is real. We should realise that it‘s not a smokescreen or it‘s not just a rumour. It will happen.

Therefore, the partners in Nedlac are trying to have a balance —

 

a balance between having too high a wage and losing jobs or a balance between having a reasonably pegged wage and saving a lot of jobs but lifting up to seven million people out of wage inequality.

 

 

This amount in the end is not a living wage. I think we should disabuse the notion that people may have that this is a living wage. It is not a living wage. Many of our people earn slave wages and this is a minimum. This is the floor below which no- one in South Africa should earn.

 

 

In the end, what it calls various sectors of our community on is to try to move the wage up. Trade unions for instance now have a task. They must negotiate wages that will go beyond a living wage and wages that will give our people a better life.

 

 

So this should be seen as a beginning. It should be seen as forming a foundation to enable our people to earn a better wage. [Applause.]

 

 

Ms L E YENGENI: Thank you, Chair. Hon Deputy President, there are people out there who are saying that ...

 

 

An HON MEMBER: You must pay the minimum wage.

 

Ms L E YENGENI: ... the R3 500 is too little, and as we were going around the country ... [Interjections.]

 

 

The SPEAKER: Order!

 

 

Ms L E YENGENI: ... conducting public hearings there were figures, like R12 500 as a national minimum wage, that were thrown at us. Some said R5 000; some said R7 000.

 

 

What I want to know or ... Deputy President, I want you to explain to our people who are listening to you today, how you got to that R3 500. What aspects were considered by the panel to come to that amount and not to 12, not to five, not to four?

There are definitely issues that have been considered.

 

 

Remember that there are people who are saying that if the national minimum wage is implemented it will lead to unemployment. So, I would think that the panel in considering the amount took all those issues into consideration.

 

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, is it parliamentary for somebody to put a question to a member of the executive when they themselves don‘t even live by those conditions? [Interjections.]

 

The SPEAKER: No, hon ...

 

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: It‘s R3 500 not R350 ...

 

[Interjections.] ... and I think its hypocrisy of its worst order for a member to do that in this House.

 

 

The SPEAKER: Hon Steenhuisen, please just take a seat. Hon Deputy President, please proceed.

 

 

Ms L E YENGENI: Hon Chair? Hon Chair, can I ...

 

 

The SPEAKER: No hon Yengeni, I don‘t want you to entertain that input. Allow the Deputy President to answer your question. Hon Deputy President?

 

 

Ms L E YENGENI: Okay.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, thank you very much. A number of considerations were taken into account by the panel. I would like to encourage members of this House to download the report that was issued by the panel because it is really an enlightening document to read. I would like members not to speak out of ignorance but to get this document in their hands and read it.

 

What the panel took into account were issues such as the low level of growth in our economy right now. They took that into account. They also took into account the global situation but they also took into account the countries that we regard as our comparators. They are countries such as Brazil, Malaysia, Turkey, Mexico and so forth.

 

 

They also looked very deeply into what the International Labour Organisation, ILO, has been doing on the issue of the national minimum wage in a number of countries. In fact, we also had as a member of this panel, an ILO official, Dr Belser, who has been dealing with the issue of minimum wages in a number of countries over a very long time.

 

 

What they also took into account was the basket, if you like, of wages in South Africa, and when they looked at them they did a mean calculation and arrived at a particular figure which is the average. However, they also took a median calculation which gave them a figure which is R20 an hour for 40 hours a week.

 

 

Now, having arrived at that they also looked at what the likely negative impact of R20 an hour is going to have on employment and they found that, yes, it will have a negative impact in a number of sectors. For instance, in the farming sector they

 

found it will have an impact. Hence, they came up with an exemption of three years in order to get the agricultural sector to pay up to 90% of the wage that they are proposing.

 

 

They also looked at the domestic worker sector and they found that it will be best to say they should pay 75% of the wage that they are proposing.

 

 

Then they looked at small business and they said they too should have a period during which they adjust, and then they exempted quite a number of other subsectors. Those are the matters they took into account.

 

 

Yes, they toyed around with figures such as R12 500 and they found that if they were to propose a R12 500 wage it would wipe out a lot of jobs in South Africa to a point where it will be difficult to recover the employment levels in those sectors.

 

 

They then moved ... graduated more and more towards R3 500 or R20 an hour. That R20 was carefully crafted and carefully considered, also taking also into account what government had proposed. Government had proposed R2 200 up to about R3 500; business had proposed R2 800 to R3 700; and the labour movement of course came in at R4 500 and more.

 

Now this R20 an hour when it is properly applied, taking the hours that people work is a good start. It‘s a start that is going to enable us to have a floor below which no-one should ever be paid.

 

 

It is not a living wage. It is a minimum wage which should enable a number of people — up to seven million people — to begin to earn a wage that is above where they are currently.

 

 

Key strategic economic interventions of government

 

 

 

22. Ms M N S Manana (ANC) asked the Deputy President:

 

 

(a) Whether the call for business and other stakeholders to unite and promote investor confidence in the economy as one of the key strategic economic interventions of Government has yielded positive results and (b) what are the details of some of the key strategic economic interventions envisaged for improving the economy of the country with regard to job creation?            NO3111E

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, the government is working with its social partners on a range of measures to ensure that we

 

have growth in our economy to create jobs and to promote an investor friendly environment.

 

 

South Africa‘s economic fortunes are no doubt inextricably linked with those of the global economy. That is why the government actively promotes and participates in platforms such as the G20, the IMF, the WTO, BRICS and the World Economic Forum. It does so to seek solutions that could address our weak economic growth.

 

 

The government has worked tirelessly to reduce the domestic constraints to foster growth through implementation of the Nine- Point Plan. The Plan prioritises the stabilisation of South Africa‘s electricity supply. It also deals with the labour relations issues, matters of the environment and unblocking regulatory barriers to investment. [Applause.]

 

 

I?m almost tempted, Madam Chair, if I was a school master I would have asked the members on the other side to write an examination on the Nine Point Plan. I have no doubt that many of them would have failed. [Applause.] They would have failed my exam.

 

The Industrial Policy Action Plan – another area where I would test them - seeks to re-industrialise our country to create decent jobs, localise technology development and boost exports. It is also promoting transformation through the Black Industrialists Programme, which is yielding really good results.

 

 

Since it was launched earlier this year, the government has approved financial and nonfinancial assistance to 22 black industrialists to the value of R1,5 billion. In no time we are going to start seeing really good dividends out of this in a form of employment and products that would be brought to markets.

 

 

The 10-point plan also deals with revitalising the agriculture and – what else - the agro-processing value chain. It is a critical intervention to create a large numbers of jobs, expand South Africa‘s production of high-value horticultural crops and assist smallholder and black farmers to compete in this sector.

 

 

The government therefore, Madam Speaker, is working across a number of mineral value chains to develop beneficiation plans which leverage off South Africa‘s mineral wealth. Through the initiative of the Minister of Finance and Business Unity South Africa, Mr Jabu Mabuza and our Minister of Finance are taking

 

practical steps to increase investment in the group that we are working on to support small enterprise development, to address youth unemployment and maintain South Africa‘s investment grade.

 

 

To streamline the investment process and accelerate investment, the government has created an investment one-stop-shop which we call Invest SA. This structure is providing investor facilitation and removes and is in the process of removing a lot of bureaucratic log jams that many people in business often complain about.

 

 

The Interministerial Committee on Investment is also doing quite a lot of work. It has identified 40 priority investment projects which can be operationalised within a relatively short space of time.

 

 

Through these measures we are undertaking, we are confident that we are able to significantly improve the investment climate in our country and to attract greater interest in our economy. We find this to be an ongoing process where many investors are gaining a lot of interest, largely because of the reformed process that they see us implementing - implementing a reformed process with regard to implementing the nine-point plan as well

 

as ensuring that we create a really good climate for investment in our country.

 

 

So, Madam Speaker, we are on the way to revamp post business and economic processes in our country. I would like to say to the people watch the space because we are going to transform this economy. Thank you very much.

 

 

Ms M N S MANANA: Thank you very much Madam Speaker.

 

 

Nk M N S MANANA: Sekela Somlomo ngibonga kakhulu ngokucacisa amasu namaqhinga uhulumeni wethu owasebenzisayo kwezomnotho ukwelekelela ukulwisana nobubha nokusweleka kwemisebenzi kanye nokungalingani ezweni lethu. Umbuzo Sekela Mongameli wokuthi njengoba ama-rating agencies esefikile abeka imibono yawo kwezomnotho wezwe lethu ngabe lokho kusho ukuthini kubantu baseNingizimu Afrika nakwizwe lonke jikelele.

 

 

USEKELA MONGAMELI WERIPHABHULIKI YASENINGIZIMU AFRIKA:

 

Ngiyabonga Mama uSomlomo ama-rating agency lawa amathathu u- Moody‘s, Standard & Poor‘s, no-Fitch, baye bafika lapha bakhuluma nabantu abaningi. Ngingasho nje ukuthi ... (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

 

[Ms M N S MANANA: Thank you very much Deputy Speaker for explaining the plans and strategies put in place by our government in respect of the economy to assist in fighting poverty and unemployment as well as inequality in this country of ours. My question Deputy President is; since the rating agencies came and presented their findings regarding our country‘s economy, what does that mean to the people of South Africa and the country in general.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA: Thank you

 

Madam Speaker. The three rating agencies namely Moody‘s, Standard & Poor‘s as well as Fitch came here and spoke to many people. What I can say is that ...]

 

 

... we are probably the only country in the world that has engaged rating agencies in the robust manner in which we engaged them, and where we exposed them to a large number of South Africans and various institutions. They thoroughly combed through our country, spoke to as many people as they possibly can, spoke to people who are in government, people outside government and people opposed to government; people in business and labour and in communities.

 

In the end, they were able to get a plethora of views, and diverse views for that matter. That gave them a very good picture of where South Africa is and where South Africa is going. Based on the conversations that they had with all these South Africans, who represented their point of view, but in the main, who projected our country mostly in a positive manner.

They were able to give us a rating which is still above junk status.

 

 

So, we still remain an investment grade country following the rating agencies‘ rating processes. We are very pleased with that. I think we should congratulate Treasury, the Minister of Finance, Cabinet members who participated in this because the rating agencies engaged with a number of Cabinet Ministers and various organisations.

 

 

We congratulate all of them: labour, business, and communities for having put the South African story on the map for rating agencies to see. With that we are still investment grade and we hope that we will remain investment grade going forward.

 

 

All these happened really because of the collective effort that all of us put in place to make sure that South Africa does remain the investment graded country that it is. It does have an

 

impact on ordinary South Africans in that if we were down graded our debt levels, our ability to borrow money would have been a lot more difficult; and it would have been post greater interest charges on our current debt as well.

 

 

So, we are grateful that South Africans put their best foot forward and make sure that we remain investment grade. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

 

 

Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Thank you Madam Speaker, hon Deputy President, we firstly recognise the current global economic crisis has deeply detrimental effects for all the economies not only South Africa; and in the economic interventions to create advancements.

 

 

There is also skills development which is very essential in creating jobs; would you not agree that one of the main problems we have in South Africa is the lack of government and the private sector commitment towards skills development. That government places too much emphasis on academic studies and forgets the technical training. That government should not have stopped the entrepreneurship programme or the training of artisans and the closing of teachers‘ colleges, etc.

 

Businesses don‘t put any effort or resources into skills development anymore. Should companies not be further mandated to provide skills development training and not expected ready made employers from government? Hon Deputy President, don‘t you agree that this is a key component not only to employment but also economic growth. How can the government that boasted such technical training programmes, promotes the same with big business? Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you hon Speaker, hon Esterhuizen you are absolutely correct that the skills development issue is possibly one of the most important task that we have not only as government but as a nation.

 

 

So, I agree with you entirely and also agree that, that‘s an area that we should be focusing more attention on; but as we speak now you will know that government is putting much more money into education than in a number of other areas of what we do as a government.

 

 

We are focusing on skills development and the TVET colleges that are spreading and being established all over the country are a response – a direct response to particularly this quest that we all have. We want to ensure that as many South African young

 

people as possible do get the skills and Human Resource Development Council that I Chair as Deputy President is focused precisely on this as well.

 

 

Now when it comes to the private sector, we keep on encouraging the private sector to join government in making sure that we spread skills amongst our people and I must say that quite a number of private sector entities are responding very positively to this call.

 

 

In fact, recently in our discussions with the private sector they were prepared to have up to one million young people over a three year period into learnerships being brought into their companies and those learnerships will also include a skills acquisition component to them.

 

 

So they are stepping up to this quest for skills acquisition. This is a task that all of us as South Africans must share. We must make sure that as many of our young people as possible do get into skills and we are also focusing on artisan development.

 

 

The Minister of Higher Education is spending more and more of his time to try and get young people to look at artisanship as a career option that they can have, rather than have so many of

 

our young people just going to universities. They should go into TVET colleges, community colleges where they can go and learn real skills. For it is true that in the end the real engine of our economic growth is going to derive from well trained young people.

 

 

Of course, companies may well want ready made workers but they also are becoming more and more aware that they have got to invest in skills training; and they are joining us on an ongoing basis to make sure that young people do acquire skills. So it is an ongoing process, we are going on with this task of making sure that people do get skills in our country. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

 

 

Mr S N SWART: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Arising from your earlier response hon Deputy President the ACDP welcomes and supports the increase co-operation between government, business and labour and other stakeholders in promoting investor confidence and avoiding a sovereign down grade as you pointed out. Indeed Cabinet need to be congratulated as do business unity because we know the consequences would have been too gusty to contemplate.

 

However, the one red flag that was raised was the issue relating to political uncertainty, and would you not agree Deputy President that those concerns about the potential of political infighting increasing next must be taken seriously – where rating agencies believed that factional battles may distract policy makers and lead to mix messages which may undermine investor confidence and undo the good work that has been done today.

 

 

Hon Deputy President, if so what steps can be taken to minimize the effects of such political uncertainty and to avoid the negative economic impact, including a possible sovereign rating down grade; but we are grateful for what has taken place up to this stage. Thank you, Deputy President.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you hon Speaker. Thank you for that congratulatory message, thank you. Let me say that you know when we engage with the rating agencies, most of them did say that clearly the political noise that is in the atmosphere is something that they notice, they see.

 

 

However, they said, in the main what we credit you South Africans for is that you are observing the rules of the game; even as things happen within your own political entities,

 

parties. You are operating within the parameters of the rules that you have and we notice that but in the end it is not the main consideration that we have in mind in terms of rating is concern.

 

 

They were more concentrating on where is growth going to come from. Are you restructuring your state-owned enterprises? Are you doing enough on labour market reforms and stability? Those were the areas they were focusing on; and I say this because I did have some discussions with them. They said as for the rest, it happens all over the world.

 

 

All over the world we do find contestation in the political sphere and that is what politics is all about anyway. They also find contestation within political parties themselves and they say in the end they focus on whether you are a rules-based country that is going to observe the rules of the game.

 

 

So I drew a lot of comfort from that, knowing that much as we are a politically robust country, all of us sitting here in Parliament, we are robust. We are noisy. We are boisterous but that boisterousness is not what concerns the rating agencies. They notice it. They see how our Parliament functions and they

 

say that happens in many other countries. They see how political parties function, and they say that happens.

 

 

It is not major consideration. So, I would like you to take comfort as well from what I took comfort from that in the end the political noise that they observe is not their main consideration. Their main consideration is the economy and how we are managing the economy. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

 

 

Mr M L W FILTANE: Thank you, hon Speaker. The Deputy President, given the turbulence so political conditions, which our country finds itself, an example: service delivery protests which are quite regular and state capture as another one. Given Clause 5 of the principles on which our Constitution is based, and for ease of reference I will briefly quote from it:

 

 

The legal system shall ensure the equality of all before the law and an equitable legal process. Equality before the law includes laws, programmes or activities that have as their object the amelioration of the conditions of the disadvantaged, including those disadvantaged on the grounds of race, colour or gender.

 

Now, given all this, are there initiatives that you are taking as the executive dealing head on with the legal part of colonialisation and apartheid in order to help the unemployed people, Africans particularly, to reclaim their dignity as human beings in the first place as opposed to the 1856 Act, which refuse them the right to be regarded as human beings in the first place. Are these initiatives with the international law of business going to put Africans in that strong position? Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, thank you. I would like to firmly believe that much of what this government has sought to do, have been aimed at implementing the objectives that are set out in our Constitution. From the ANC side, it has been driven by our need and objective to implement the provisions of the Freedom Charter, which really are about restoring the dignity of people who have been oppressed under colonialism and apartheid.

 

 

Many of the initiatives that we have embarked upon have been aimed precisely at that: To address the oppression of our people; to end oppression; to end the hardship of our people and to make sure that we give our people a better life; giving them a better life that is going to be very different from the life that they led under colonialism and apartheid.

 

Now, this does not happen overnight. It is not a one day event. It is a process, and over the 21 years that we have achieved our freedom a lot of progress has been made, and a number of observers and analysts do testify to the fact that in the main the lives of many South Africans have changed for the better.

For instance, poverty has been reduced quite substantially. We still have a long way to go.

 

 

There is much more that we still need to do and this is clearly demonstrated by the challenges that we still face; but that being the case, it means that we are still having to do quite a lot of things. This is where we call upon all South Africans to join us on this journey of turning South Africa into a truly prosperous country, where our people will enjoy democracy; where our people will live in a country that is truly nonracial and nonsexist. Thank you very much.

 

 

Details relating to determination of national minimum wage

 

 

 

23. Rev K R J Meshoe (ACDP) asked the Deputy President:

 

 

Whether, with reference to the different levels of inequality and affordability in the country, the Government has taken into consideration to determine the national

 

minimum wage in accordance with a formula that will take cognisance of whether the employer is a corporate entity or private person; if not, in each case, why not; if so, what are the relevant details in each case?     NO3107E

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Deliberations are currently underway among social partners at National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, to determine the design, application and level of a national minimum wage for South Africa are proceeding and are hopefully going to yield a result which will be known to everyone in time.

 

 

The constituencies, which meet together as a Committee of Principals, are now considering the recommendations of an expert advisory panel on, among other things, an appropriate figure for the national minimum wage. The panel considered proposals, research and evidence from the social partners and interested parties. After much deliberation it unanimously agreed that the level of R20 per hour.

 

 

While the recommendation of the panel of experts does not differentiate between private persons and corporate entities, the panel recommended that an exemption mechanism be built into the system.

 

This means that employers who can effectively motivate why they are unable to meet the minimum wage level would be granted an exemption.

 

 

The panel proposed that own-account workers and paid or unpaid family workers in informal enterprises are permanently excluded from the national minimum wage.         That means that if there are workers who are working for the family, who are family members and working in an enterprise, thise would be excluded.

 

 

The report also recommended that employers who employ 10 or less employees be given an additional 12 months to adjust to the new level.

 

 

These recommendations are all currently under consideration, and we are confident that agreement will soon. So, the workers that the hon member, Rev Meshoe, asked about are those workers that would be excluded because they are family members; so that distinction, particularly for family members is there but either than that everyone else is meant to comply with the minimum wage. Thank you very much.

 

 

Rev K R J MESHOE: While we all agree that the proposed national minimum wage is neither a decent wage nor a living wage. We,

 

nevertheless, hit caution from the Chairperson of the Panel of Experts who was chosen to steer this process of determining the minimum wage. He said that if it was too high – and the Deputy President did confirm that – then the amount would have an adverse impact on employment, with job losses; and if it was set too low then it would fail to address the challenges of the working poor, who regrettably make up almost half of the workforce that is earning below R3500 per month.

 

 

What I want to know from the Deputy President is why people who are employed through the Expanded Public Works Programme and people employed by State Security Agencies or South African National Defence Force, SANDF, members are not covered by the proposed national minimum wage? Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I think those employed by the State Agencies and the SANDF are generally covered anyway, so they don‘t possibly don‘t fall in that category. Those who are working in the expanded Public Works Programme fall in a different category; different category because they in the end get a stipend. They get a stipend, they‘re doing valuable work and in the main do not really work everyday as your ordinary type of worker would.

 

Public employment programme, in the main is a top gap measure but in other areas it fulfils a much needed social purpose.

There are quite a number of people who work almost permanently in this type of function, but not everyday. To give you a good example, there are 40 000 women in KwaZulu-Natal, KZN, who repair the roads, each one is allocated something like half a kilometre of road; they diligently have been working at these for quite a number of years, repairing these roads, the work like two days a week and that allows them to be able to do other things; if you like, economically involved activities.

 

 

They are not necessarily employees. They fall in the category of volunteer type of workers who get a stipend or who do get paid and that pay they get helps them to patch-up, patch-up income along the way; and they run, by the end of this administration‘s tenure, they will run into 6 million and those are job opportunities, they are not jobs. They are job opportunities because of the high unemployment situation that we‘re operating in do find gainful activity of a limited nature but in some cases of an on-going level.

 

 

Some of these work on water; some of them work on fire; some are community workers, they work on health and a number of other areas; and they work on infrastructure. Now, all these will in

 

the end amount to about 6 million, and they‘re job opportunities. If we recognise them for what they are, we should recognise that if we were to have them covered, then it would collapse the whole system; we would have to half it or even bring it down to a quarter; because they are not fully employed like that, the panel has suggested that they should be exempted and it would seem like that is the best way of dealing with their situation.

 

 

Clearly, with time, you will find out that – yes the income that they earn will keep catching up with inflation but the income they get does close some holes, does address the issue of abject poverty. So, that‘s the reason why they have been exempted.

Thank you very much.

 

 

Mr I M OLLIS: Deputy President, in the document you received two weeks ago from the minimum wage panel, it refers obviously to the R3500 per month proposal, but it also contains a comment on Treasury‘s report on minimum wages. It says, based on a national minimum wage of R3189 in 2014 numbers, the National Treasury concludes that approximately 715 000 jobs will be lost. Moreover the treasury model predicts that Gross Domestic Product, GDP, will fall by 2,1%.

 

My question to you is, have you read the Treasury report? Have you applied your mind to it or being briefed by Treasury on it? And are you concerned, similarly to National Treasury, about massive job losses that could result from a national minimum wage and the slowdown of the economy? Are you not concerned about this and if not, why not Mr Deputy President?

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Madam Speaker, if hon Ollis was listening to me, which seems to be a very scarce commodity these days, he would have heard me say ?universal experience on the setting of a minimum wage?. There‘s not a single country in the world which has accepted or embraced a minimum wage which has not suffered job losses. The key question is, a country has to ask itself, do we continue with wage inequality forever and in a day or do we move to an upper level where we will have a minimum wage which will drag everybody up in time, to a point where our people will begin to have a decent life?

 

 

All countries – including your favourite Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, OECD, countries – have had a similar experience. In our country, we did a thorough study and the good thing is – my good friend – the study that was done by Treasury, the study that was done by the unions, the study that was done by business, and I read all of them. Having

 

read all of them, very carefully by the way, they were also looked at very very deeply by the panel. The panel comments on this because they also studied those reports and they noted that these were 2014 figures. Now, we estimate that if you were to apply the minimum wage today, you will have job losses that would be above 400 000 to half a million.

 

 

But what we are saying – those people in the committee of principals at Nedlac – we recognise that this is the usual result of setting a minimum wage. What we should do collectively is to see how we‘re going to mitigate job losses.

 

 

The measures we need to take collectively to mitigate job losses is what we now going to be discussing when we next meet. To say, what do we do?

 

 

Let me tell you, those partners in Nedlac have more or less all accepted the principle that we must have a minimum wage, that is a given, everyone has accepted. The level has more or less been accepted. The issue that now needs to be discussed is how do we mitigate the job losses that are going to ensue and those mitigation factors or initiatives are going to range between matters of the timing?

 

The two and half year period is the period that will no doubt help to mitigate massive job losses; because businesses are going to start adjusting, they are going to start looking at how best they can address the issue of an increased wage so that their businesses do not fail and they start paying workers at that level. So, time is going to be utilised as a mitigating factor.

The other one – if you were listening carefully – is going to be employers are going to come forward and say – on an evidence basis – we need an exemption, we need an exemption for this length of period. Every responsible employer will be expected to come forward and say ?I can do this?, ?I can‘t do this?, ?and these are the reasons why I can‘t do?. Anybody who‘s running a business should not recklessly just want their business to fail because they are not able to live up to where the minimum wage is going to be. There is an allowance for employers to then apply for exemption and that in itself is going to mitigate job losses.

 

 

There are other initiatives, for instance, we are also saying the agricultural sector, the domestic sector, and there should also be some measure of mitigation through packing the percentage they should pay. But we‘re also saying, there may well be other sectors, for instance the textile sector or any

 

other sector where employers can come forward and say, we‘re going to have difficulties please help us. There may well be other sectors where we may need to get more investment.

 

 

If you were listening carefully my good friend, you will see that mitigation is what we‘re now going to focus on; and remember that this is a collection of people from various sectors, business, government, labour and communities, and a combination of all those – in the end, that sum of the path – is going to produce a much better outcome and a result that possibly you and I could ever come up with. So, be respectful of the views that are going to be put forward by that Committee of Principals; because the great wisdom and the experience that they have in totality could possibly help us to move forward. I beg you, be more understanding and embrace the concept of a national minimum wage, don‘t kick against it because of your own political ideology. Thank you very much.

 

 

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Deputy President you spoke about decent life for our people, boosting the economy, creating more equal society, creating jobs, and labour reform, but Mr Deputy President, only 3% of the South African economy is black-owned. What is more shocking is that in the Western Cape, over 50% of the workforce is coloureds while less than 10% holds senior

 

management posts. Now, what are we going to do about this Mr Deputy President?

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: If I had the luxury of time, I would have asked some of my friends on the other side to answer that question. Clearly, what we seek to do is to charge ahead with the transformation process. The ownership of resources our country should not be hogged and continue to be owned by one racial group.

 

 

Positions in companies should also not be hogged by just one racial group. We want to see transformation of a general and overarching type. We do need to speed up the transformation process when it comes to land reform, ownership of companies, equipping our people with skills, and getting them into key management positions.

 

 

To also demonstrate that we are serious, we are radically changing the ownership, the management and the control of our economy, because we cannot claim that we have a sustainable economy going forward when it is still structured in the way that it is, and still managed and owned in the way it does.

 

So, we call upon all of us to live up to the ideals that we have of giving our people, as you correctly say, a better life.

Giving them a better life means that we have to improve their livelihoods, and by so doing, they must get skills, they must own assets, they must control assets, and they must manage assets. Thank you very much.

 

 

Mr N S MATIASE: Deputy President, the new dispensation of the national minimum wage is a progressive intervention. We must mention forthright that the EFF minimum wage is R4 500 and up. The minimum wage is faced with twin challenges: Firstly, finding redresses of salary parity among employees within the same company; secondly, is transcending and overcoming sectoral wage determination without which, national minimum wage would remain a pipe dream.

 

 

I think you will agree with me that it is through national minimum wage that we would be able to deal with wage gaps between bosses and employees, household poverty, and inequality. Now, the question is: Within the existing environment of sectoral determined minimum wage, and within the environment which employers will be given exceptions and exceptional circumstances to comply, do you have proper regulation and mechanism in place to force employers to comply, and do you have

 

timeframes within which you will get national minimum wage equilibrium? I can guarantee you that for as long as those are not in place, it won‘t be possible for us to attain the national minimum wage.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you very much for saying that the national minimum wage is a progressive move. It certainly is. We know and recognise the fact that the EFF would prefer a national minimum wage which is pegged at R4 500. Now, if you were to look at the amount that is on the table, the progression of time, and do your arithmetic or mathematics, you would find that we are not so far apart from each other – but do your mathematics, I leave that to you.

 

 

Now, with regard to the national minimum wage, when it comes to issues of parity between the wages, say, of workers within an enterprise, the national minimum wage can only address that in part. In the end, issues of wage parity are better addressed by trade unions advocating for wage parity, for much better wages, decent wage and a living wage.

 

 

The national minimum wage is not a living wage nor is it a decent wage, it is a wage that is structured so that no worker in the country should earn below it. It is floor. We are

 

structuring floor. It is a good base from which to start to begin to improve the income of a number of people in our country.

 

 

When applied immediately as I said, it will impact on the income of some seven million people. Now, that is a very good start. It will move up progressively as you correctly said. The rest of the work has to be done by negotiations and by the trade unions.

 

 

Currently we have different wage determinations. The minimum wage is going to expect that all those wage determinations live up to where the national minimum wage is going to be pegged.

 

 

You asked the question, the application, implementation and enforcement. As I said earlier, we obviously are going to expect that when implementation time comes, there will be compliance that is expected and penalties to those who do not implement.

Will we have sufficient mechanism? Yes, we are going to make it a point in government that it is applied and enforced, and that too is going to be a work in progress.

 

 

We are going to make sure that we focus on a number of sectors of our economy where there has been lagered enforcement and focus on those. Other sectors of the economy are those that

 

generally implement even the wage determination. We are going to focus on implementation ensuring that there is clear implementation and enforcement accompanied by penalties.

 

 

The Department of labour is going to put in place various structures and mechanisms that are going to ensure that that happens. You can be rest assured that our focus in the end is not just to have a minimum wage on the statute books. We want a minimum wage that would be applied. Thank you very much for saying it is a progressive start.

 

 

The panel has proposed that this should commence by December. Announcement will be made in December. We will see whether it is possible to announce once the partners at Nedlac have reached an agreement. If that is not possible, certainly, by the beginning of the year there will be an announcement.

 

 

Once it is announced, then the legislative process will commence. The amendments and the Bill would come to Parliament. That should take us the better part of the year. Maybe by the end of the year we will have the legislation.

 

 

We will expect that from July, next year. We start implementation. We start getting companies to start implementing

 

the announcement that would have been made. This is the process of mitigation; this is the process of getting companies to adjust. Thereafter, we will have a leading period as proposed by the panel of up to 2019. The whole of 2018 they will be getting the mechanisms ready. By 2019, then implementation starts. That is the timeframe that is envisaged. We are still going to talk about that.

 

 

South African youth being sent to Vietnam for skills training in shipbuilding, amongst others

 

 

24. Ms D D Raphuti (ANC) asked the Deputy President:

 

 

Whether, in light of his recent working visit to Vietnam  and Singapore and noting that Vietnam is ranked number five in shipbuilding, there is a possibility that South African youth who show potential could be sent to Vietnam for  skills training in shipbuilding and other skills training that country may offer?       NO3112E

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, during my recent visit together with a number of members of the executive to Vietnam, I visited the City of Haiphong and had the opportunity to inspect the Pha Rung Shipbuilding Corporation. Haiphong has been long

 

viewed as a cradle of the Vietnamese shipbuilding industry. Over a number of years, the Vietnamese have made significance progress in building their oceans‘ economy in particular the shipbuilding part and the aquaculture.

 

 

Currently, there are six South African students studying maritime economy studies at the Maritime University in Haiphong. These students are studying there on scholarships that we were granted by the Vietnamese government. In my discussion with the Vietnamese Vice President, I asked Vietnam to consider the possibility of increasing the basket of courses that are offered within the maritime discipline and also to increase the number of students who are studying at the Maritime University. The respond from the Vietnamese was very positive.

 

 

Our Department of International Relations and Co-operation has already been informed that additional scholarships will be offered to South African students next year and it is important to note that the University of South Africa, Unisa, School of Governance which accompanied me on this trip also find a Memorandum of Understanding on Co-operation with the Ho Chi Minh Political Academy. It is expected that collaboration between the two institutions will further facilitate our efforts to secure training of South African students in Vietnam.

 

Our two countries established a partnership forum in 2004, to facilitate co-operation and it is going extremely well. The students that I met in Vietnam are in high spirit. They are learning and we went with them to the shipbuilding docks. They were able, with great ease, to tell us how ships are built and how they are participating in that shipbuilding process. What convinces is that the more students we can send there to go and learn about shipbuilding, the more we will be able to boost our own oceans economy and that is precisely how our trip went. It was a very positive trip.

 

 

From there, if I may add, we also went to Singapore. In Singapore we were able to see how Singapore has become the leading port authority country in the world and how they are able to utilise just that aspect of their own economy to generate a lot of economic growth in their economy. Thank you very much.

 

 

Ms D D RAPHUTI: Thank you very much, the Deputy President. It is our understanding that in your working or visit memorandum of understanding and strengthening of economic ties were concluded including the assessment of what skills Vietnam could offer informed by your understanding of the human resource needs of our country. Given the high skills training that is being

 

imparted, what plans are in place once this graduates return to South Africa that be integrated into laying the foundation of shipbuilding in our country. Thank you very much.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Madam Speaker, we have great plans for these young people who are sending around the world. May I add that we also have a cohort of these young people in Sweden who are doing their masters studies in the maritime world? We expect that when they return they will be able to gain employment in maritime sector of our economy and be able to be active participants in our ocean economy efforts. As we speak now, the oceans‘ economy, Phakisa, is in great need of people who well skilled in a variety of ocean economy disciplines and we are expecting that those in Sweden as soon as they come back will be able to come back and play a role.

 

 

Those in Vietnam should be qualifying by next year. They too will come back. Those in China, we have sent some, will also return. We are spreading these young people to as many countries as possible to go and learn disciplines and skills that are not immediately and readily available in South Africa. Therefore, we expect that when they come back they will play role in our economy. I have forgotten to mention those in Japan. When I went to Japan I also met quite a number of young people who are

 

getting trained also in the oceans economy. Many of them are out there and we expect them to come back to play a key role in our economy. Thank you.

 

 

Mr Y CASSIM: Mr Deputy President, South African does not have a distinct demand for shipbuilding skills with only two registered ships in the country. Given the desperate lack of funds made available by your government for much needed skills development here at home, without Technical and Vocational Education and Training, TVET, colleges institutions and students being desperately neglected and underfunded. What are you doing to better fund and to fix the skills development crisis here at home?

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: The training that is being offered to our young people in a number of countries that I alluded to is an offer, a scholarship from those countries. In a way, if you like gaining from the generosity of our partners who gladly offer us these opportunities because in a number of ways they know that we are dealing with a horrible legacy of the past where many of our people were denied the types of skills that we are sending young people to be trained here. Now, the Phakisa process in the oceans economy is beginning to demonstrate to us that much as the shipbuilding industry in our country once boomed and died

 

can face resurgence. It can be rebooted and, in fact, as it is now, having started with the Phakisa process we are already building tugboats that we are exporting to other countries and we are looking forward to reviving our boat manufacturing or our ship manufacturing process. Already a number of investors are very keen to participate in this.

 

 

Our TVET colleges are centres where we want to train artisans and where we want to train young people to play an important role in various sectors of our country. We are involved in a process of skilling our young people. The money that we continue to pour into education in many, many ways is so huge and much as we encountered all these challenges and difficulties in the past year, we encountered them because the demand has been so huge and so big. Our young people are hungry for education. They are hungry to acquire skills. We are responding to that. We are responding to that in variety of ways in sending them elsewhere to be trained and also training them in our TVET colleges and indeed in our universities.

 

 

Our response to the situation that young people found themselves in is rather positive one in a number of ways. In that, where there has been a need to pour money and to make money available we have lived up to do so. We have been even set up commissions

 

and task teams that are addressing precisely this. A solution is going to be found to resolve this problem on a more long term basis. Therefore, do not lose hope and heart if you want to go and study at a TVET college. I am sure you will find, as a young person, that you are still able to get a great deal of government assistance. Thank you very much.

 

 

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Speaker, through you to Mr Deputy President, as you have already alluded to the fact that this shipbuilding economy sector was once booming and tried to be skilled down and in some instances it was discontinued. To rely then on the generosity and the charity of other countries in terms of us rebuilding this economy, what concrete plans does the government have as part of operation Phakisa to ensure that we cultivate these skills here at home?

 

 

Secondly, that the people who are actually abroad, which we appreciate, that they come back and not going to the private sector only, but actually come in and transfer these skills to a broader selection of young people so that we brought them the scope of people who can be able to contribute to the revival and the resurgence of what is actually ineffective and efficient sector of the economy given the coastline that South Africa has and the opportunities that are available.

 

What is the coastal concrete plan? It is good and well to get the charity but staff sustainability becomes part and parcel of the package if we have at least serious about the revival of this sector of the economy. Thank you, Speaker.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, hon Hlengwa, having realised the real deep hunger amongst our young people to learn maritime studies, a Minister of Higher Education started realising that we need to respond to this deep quest that many of young people have and he has asked, not only coastal universities that is university that is around our coast, a number of other universities and TVET to start looking at structuring courses that can give our young people skills so that we do not only rely on young people who go to Sweden, Japan, China and Vietnam, but we also do our own things here.

 

 

Indeed, those young people who are getting masters degrees, some of whom will even get Doctor of Philosophy, PhDs, we would like to bring them back into the teaching fraternity so that they impart those skills. You are correctly say that we have got this endowment of 3 000 km of coast of sea around us. It is something that we need to utilise to its maximum effect. In doing so it means that we have got to have young people or people with great skills to be able to exploit what the seas or the oceans have in

 

store in terms of well creation, job creation, growing the economy, creating businesses and making sure that our young people do get skills.

 

 

Therefore, we are focused on that. If you want concrete plans and I am sure that in time we will be able to outline all the concrete plans. At the Phakisa level, a number of such plans are being cooked up, if one can use that term. The investment potential is huge. In fact, a number of commitments having made are being made, even as we speak, by a number of companies and role-players who are going to commit real money to put into this sector of our economy and with that we will be the skills training process and no doubt like you we would like part of those skills to be created here and to be developed here in our own country. All of this is working together to a very good end or a good beginning if one can put it that way. We are not losing our attention on putting together real concrete plans to make sure that all of this reaches good fruition. Thank you very much.

 

 

Prof N M KHUBISA: Hon Speaker, through you to hon Deputy President, we must say that most of our young people, especially blacks, have not been exposed to maritime studies, only of late we have seen a cohort of women getting into maritime studies,

 

some of them becoming shipmasters. Of course, most of the schools that we have are housed within the mainstream universities or TVET colleges. Does the government have plans to have special schools or colleges that will deal specifically with maritime studies? Is there a programme that will ensure that more women are exposed to maritime studies? Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, through you to hon Khubisa, many of the young people that I met who are doing this study are young women. I am glad that you have even come across some of them who are like shipmasters, quartermasters and all that.

Young women are taking up to these maritime studies in a very, very big way. I met them in all the countries where I have travelled.

 

 

With regard to dedicated learning facility or university or TVET college, I think that is an idea that I may not be aware of, but it appeals to me that we should have a focused institution that will just train young people in the various disciplines that have to do with the ocean economy. That is appealing with the endowment we have of 3 000 km of ocean. In my view, there is no reason why we should not have university just focusing on maritime studies. I would support it and I would advocate for it and you may well - if it is not being done and that I am not

 

aware of it - have planted a very good idea and I thank you very much for it. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

 

Strengthening of relationships between Executive and legislature, and of Parliaments oversight role

 

 

25. The Leader  of         the        Opposition        (DA)     asked   the        Deputy President:

 

 

Whether he has found that he has managed to (a) build a stronger relationship between the Executive and the legislature and (b) encourage Members of the Executive to respond promptly to matters raised in Parliament during his tenure as the Leader of Government Business in the Fifth Parliament, in order to strengthen Parliament‘s oversight  of the exercise of national executive authority and of any organ of State in line with section 55(2) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996; if not, in each case, why not; if so, what are the relevant details in each case?        NO3110E

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, hon members, as I have stated in this House, the Cabinet is still busy in a Cabinet meeting. [Interjections.] They are still in a Cabinet meeting and this is

 

the last Cabinet meeting. I am very sorry to be missing it, but I am here. They excused me and gave me permission to come here to answer your questions. [Interjections.]

 

 

Members of the executive are collectively and individually accountable to Parliament, both in terms of the Constitution and in terms of the Rules of the National Assembly. In my regular reports to Cabinet on the status of questions submitted to members of the executive, I have noted the significant improvement in responses by members of the executive to both oral and written questions.

 

 

This is part of Cabinet‘s collective commitment to ensure that members of the executive fulfill their responsibility to account to this Parliament. The executive‘s relationship with the legislature is strengthened by the constructive exchanges between the two in the course of the fulfillment of their respective constitutional responsibilities.

 

 

Members of the executive are acutely aware of the importance of Parliament‘s oversight of the exercise of the national executive authority and of any organ of state and the role that tools such as the parliamentary questions play in such oversight. This is a matter that is constantly raised and discussed in the Cabinet.

 

Ministers are encouraged to ensure that efficient systems and processes exist within their own departments to respond timeously and fully to matters raised in Parliament.

 

 

Parliamentary records show that in oral question sessions in 2016, for example, in 77% of cases, the Minister concerned was present to answer questions, in 22% of cases, either the Deputy Minister or Acting Minister was present and in only 3% of cases, neither was present.

 

 

It is important to note that, while the number of questions put to Ministers has increased significantly, the overall rate of reply has remained high. In 2009, over 2 000 written questions were put to Ministers, while by the end of 2015, the total number exceeded 4 000. That just shows the number of questions that have been posed over the time. [Interjections.] The proportion of written questions answered each year has exceeded 95%. Ninety-five percent. [Applause.]

 

 

Government welcomes provisions in the new Rules of the National Assembly, to monitor replies to questions and take steps to attend to problems. Should Parliament determines that members of the executive are not responding sufficiently and promptly to matters raised in Parliament, Parliament may consider taking

 

appropriate action against Ministers because in the end, Ministers are responsible to this Parliament.

 

 

The executive is responsible to this Parliament. So, if Parliament is of the view that they are not living up to their responsibilities, the matter should then be dealt with by Parliament. Then Parliament, having discussed the matter, should then decide what action it wishes to take against those members of the executive. I rest my case. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

 

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Hon Speaker, Deputy President, I take the line that Parliament must take the appropriate action. In the recent while, just two days ago at your memorial lecture, you said something and I agree with it. I would like to quote it:

 

 

Unity is not the same as closing ranks. Unity is not a conspiracy of silence in the face of misdeeds. Unity is not an excuse to avoid the difficult, painful questions we need to ask ourselves.

 

 

I agree with you. My question is ... We could never actually sacrifice doing the right thing in the name of unity. We have seen many reports coming here to Parliament. When we speak about

 

executive accountability in for example, the secure and comfort report and in the state of capture report, all of those reports ended up in courts and generally, the courts win against Parliament. I want to understand more critically ... [Interjections.] ... And the courts find against Parliament, so relax. I want to know why, the last time when you were there, when we sought to bring executive accountability through the measures that Parliament has, did your government vote in defense of corruption, patronage, by voting for JZ 783 in the motion of no confidence? [Interjections.]

 

 

My question to you, Deputy President: In the light of that and in the light of the National Executive Committee, NEC, discussion, would you have reviewed your decision and your vote in the motion of no confidence against JZ 783, if we were serious about accountability? [Interjections.] Thank you very much.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Madam Speaker, I answered the question and said on this issue of the accountability of members of the executive, that it is not like we are helpless or that we have no options. We have a Parliament to which the executive must be accountable. This is an arm of the state that we should utilise to make sure that the executive is accountable. If the matter is

 

discussed here and it is not agreed to, you must accept that there is a concept called democracy. There is a democratic decision that has been taken. You should know that if you have put a matter on the table and it is not successful, then you must accept the decision of the majority. [Applause.]

 

 

That in itself does not mean that any one member of the executive should not be accountable to Parliament. They are accountable because we were all elected as representatives of our people. We are accountable, finally, to our people, but our people decided that we should be configured in the way that we are.

 

 

If a decision does not favour you, you should not cry and ask why it did not favour you. It is a democratically arrived at decision. That is my answer. Democracy rules and one must accept it. You must not want to accept it one way only. [Applause.]

 

 

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Speaker, Deputy President, earlier on, you alluded to the fact that if you were a school principal, there would be certain things that would not happen in terms of the Nine-point Plan. I put it to you that as the principal of Cabinet and leader of government business, you have some students in your class who are not performing, who come here and

 

give responses, which are just not satisfactory and undermine what is being done here. [Interjections.] More often than not, questions are generally to seek information and Ministers are flippant in their responses and just have an ?I don‘t care? attitude.

 

 

At worse, there are Ministers that don‘t pitch. The Minister of International Relations is never here. The Minister of Sports and Recreation is never here. The Minister of Basic Education is never here. The list is endless.

 

 

So, I ask you as the principal, what are you going to do to crack the whip and ensure that Ministers are here? Really, it makes a mockery of what you want to do. You have members in the House who are willing to ask the questions, but Ministers must meet us half way. Quite frankly, it is not fair. I put it to you that while you say that Parliament has processes, I agree with you, but I think you need to lead from the front and there must be consequences.

 

 

The question I want to ask is: Of the reports that you have submitted, you surely have a list, so who are in the bottom five of the people who are misbehaving? You said that you have the report. It is time to name and shame. Give us the bottom five

 

nonperformers, so that we can be serious about consequent management. [Applause.] Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Madam Speaker, this information or statistics I read out are readily available from the parliamentary records. That is where I got them from. When the question was posed, I asked my staff to give me figures. I said that I don‘t want our own figures; I want the figures from Parliament because that to me is more authentic. It is not like a fudge coming from an executive member‘s office. So, they gave me these figures. So, these figures are there in the annuals or records of Parliament.

 

 

So, if you want to find the bottom five – I did not check that – you can easily ... [Laughter.] ... know who is really at the bottom.

 

 

To be more serious about this, this is a matter that concerns all of us. It concerns the whippery of the governing party, it concerns me as the leader of government business, and it concerns those who have a responsibility for this. Clearly, in this regard, the Chief Whip of the ANC and I are dealing with this matter. We are dealing with it to make sure that every member of the executive does live up to their responsibilities

 

and we are serious about that. We will deal with it in manner that will ensure that members of the executive do indeed live up to their responsibility.

 

 

Let me just immediately also say that we have achieved a great deal of success with regard to the answering of questions, both here in the House and in a written way by nudging and cajoling executive members to live to their responsibilities. We will continue to do so. That we will do on an ongoing basis because people do need to be encouraged. I have always believed that one of the greatest tools of management is enabling people to live up to their capabilities by nudging them, encouraging them.

 

 

And it is only when they have demonstrated that they are doing it willfully and in intentionally, that you then apply punitive measures. I have not seen any demonstration, including by some of the members that you have spoken about, that it is willful and that it is intentional. The day I realise that it is willful and intentional, the Chief of the Majority Party and I will definitely deal with this matter. Thank you very much.

 

 

Ms D Z RANTHO: Hon Deputy President ... [Interjections.] ... Are you worried? Are you intimidated by me? [Interjections.] When assuming office as a member of the executive, a member of the

 

executive takes on a specific constitutional responsibility and delegated responsibilities and functions. These are extended beyond section 55(2) of the Constitution. Could the Deputy President, in his capacity as a leader of government business, explain to South Africans how, given the weight of different constitutional responsibilities that are at play at any one time, the Deputy President has encouraged members of the executive to affect a harmonious balance in dealing with their responsibilities?

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, yes, as I was indicating, on realising that there were gaps and lapses, we have sought to encourage members of the executive to live up to their responsibilities and to live up to their accountability to Parliament, to make sure that we do take Parliament seriously and that we do respond to questions that are posed by Members of Parliament and make sure that we do attend in Parliament. This very morning in the Cabinet meeting, it was precisely the question we dealt, which I raised as well. I raised the issue of lapses and gaps in attendance in the House by members of the executive.

 

 

So, we deal with this on an ongoing basis. As I was saying, I see my role as being that of encouraging members to live up to

 

their responsibilities and cajoling them and showing and demonstrating to them that it is important that Parliament be taken as seriously, as we would like to take Parliament as well. When Members of Parliament speak and when they raise questions, we should be able to listen very carefully and answer and respond to their questions.

 

 

Therefore, that level of encouragement is ongoing. In the end, I have seen a great deal of improvement and expect that I will continue to see an improvement in the performance of members of the executive.

 

 

Madam Speaker, we will continue working at it and making sure that we make you proud, as the Speaker of our Parliament. [Interjections.] We will make sure, when you oversee the proceedings of Parliament and you call us to order, that we are indeed making you proud in everything that you are doing. Thank you.

 

 

Nks N V MENTE: Enkosi Somlomo, Sekela Mongameli umbuzo wam uza kubalula kakhulu. Njengoko uMgaqo-siseko ulungiselela abantu ukuba bahlonipheke, ndicinga ukuba onke amaLungu ePalamente, abaPhathiswa kuquka wena noMongameli kufuneka sihloniphe umthetho. Kufuneka kananjalo, singaxoki kuba safunga ukuba

 

asisokuze saxoka, ingakumbi xa sikule Ndlu nale yeBhunga lamaPhondo leSizwe. UMongameli ebeye kwiNdlu yeBhunga lamaPhondo leSizwe apho abuzwe ngeNgxelo yokuBanjwa ngoBhongwane koMbuso.

Uphendule ngelithi akakhange afumane thuba laneleyo lokuba anike iimpendulo ebezijoliswe kuye. Iye yavela ekuhambeni kwethuba ukuba uMongameli ebelinikiwe ixesha elaneleyo kwaye uphendulile. Uthini ke ngoku ngomntu onguMongameli oxokayo kwezi ziNdlu zePalamente abe enguMongameli welizwe? [Kwaqhwatywa.]

 

 

SEKELA MONGAMELI: Ndiyabulela Somlomo. Lungu lePalamente ndivumele ndithi kuwe uMongameli weli lizwe uyafika apha kule Ndlu, ame phaya kwela qonga aze aphendule imibuzo. Mna bendingekho ngela xesha ebephendula phaya kwiNdlu yeBhunga lamaPhondo leSizwe. Bendingekho ngenyaniso kwaye andikhange ndive nokuba uye wawuphendula njani na loo mbuzo. [Ubuwele- wele.] Ingathi kum, wena ufuna ukwazi ukuba ingaba uMongameli wayexoka okanye wayethetha inyaniso kusini na? Mna bendicebisa ukuba ngaloo mini aza kufika ngayo apha kule Ndlu, ubekhona apha kuba kaloku awubikho ngamanye amaxesha apha. Ndithi uze uncede ubekhona ukuze ungabuzi umbuzo kuMongameli ngabanye abantu.

Kufuneka umngqale, umbuze ngokwakho. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

 

[Ms N V MENTE: Thank you hon Speaker.          Hon Deputy President, my question will be very easy. As the Constitution is fair that everyone needs to be respected. I think all the hon Members of Parliament, hon Ministers including you hon President, need to respect the law. Again we need, not to lie because we have sworn in that we will never lie, especially when we are in this House and the National Council of Provinces. The hon President was in the National Council of Provinces where he was asked about the State Capture Report.    He answered by saying he was not given enough time to give answers on what was asked from him.         After some time we heard that the hon President was given enough time and he answered. What is your view about a person who is a President who lies in the two Houses of Parliament being the President of this country? [Applause.]

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you hon Speaker.       Hon Member allow me to say to you, the hon President comes to this House, stands in that podium and answers questions.    I was not in the National Council of Provinces when he answered the questions.         Honestly I was not there and I didn‘t hear how he answered that question. [Interjections.] It seems as if you want to know whether the hon President was telling the truth or not? I suggest that when he comes to answer in this House, you must be present because sometimes you are absent. I say you must please be present so

 

that you don‘t ask questions from the President via other people. You must ask direct to him, ask him yourself. [Applause.]]

 

 

Mr M L W FILTANE: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: I think the Deputy President is qualified to keep his job.

Congratulations.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Deputy President, were you done?

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No, I was not done.

 

 

Bendisathi, ndifuna ukuba ndifumane isithembiso apha kuwe sokuba uza kube ukhona xa uMongameli ekhona kodwa ke uvile ukuba ndithini na mna. Ndiza kude ndimxelele ukuba ukhona umntu ofuna ukubuza umbuzo kwaye uthembisile ukuba uza kube ekhona ngaloo mini uza kube uphendula imibuzo. UMongameli uza kuba khona kulo nyaka uzayo. Bendicebisa ukuba uwugcine lo mbuzo ukuze ukwazi ukumbuza nam ngokunjalo ndiza kuwubhala phantsi ukuze ndingawulibali, ndikwazi ukuba ndimkhumbuze ukuba ukhona umntu onjengawe oza kubuza lo mbuzo. Ndiyabulela, Sekela Somlomo. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

 

[I was saying, I want you to promise me that you will be present when the hon President is here.   Do you hear what I‘m saying? I will tell him that there is someone who wants to ask a question and he promised to be present on the day you will be answering questions. The hon President will be present next year.           I suggest that you must keep your question so that you ask him and I will write it down so that I don‘t forget, in order to remind him that there is someone like you who wants to ask that question. Thank you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]]

 

 

Ms N V MENTE: Deputy Speaker, I am rising on the Rule of explanation. [Interjections.]

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no.

 

 

Ms N V MENTE: The Deputy President did not answer. He is the head of governance. He cannot pass a question over to someone else. I am asking him as the head of governance. He must whip his President; he must not lie.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, that is not allowed. Hon members, that is not allowed.

 

Plans to reduce high levels of HIV among young women and to address high rates of violence against girls and women

 

 

26. Ms P Bhengu-Kombe (ANC) asked the Deputy President:

 

 

With reference to the 16 Days of Activism for No Violence Against Women and Girls and the World Aids Day and in light of the fact that South Africa persistently faces high  levels of HIV infection among adolescent girls and young women as well as unacceptable levels of violence against children and women, what (a) plans does the Government have to reduce the persistently high levels of HIV among young women and (b) will the Government do to address the high rates of violence against girls and women?          NO3113E

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Deputy Speaker, while we have made great progress over the past few years in prevention treatment, care and support, new HIV infections amongst adolescent girls and young women remain persistently high in quite a worrying manner. As government we are dedicating a lot of attention and resources to this age group through a number of programmes. In addition, government and development partners that work with us in this area provide resources for a wide range of NGOs with expertise and experience in working with girls and young women.

 

In June this year we launched a government-wide and society-wide campaign known as She Conquers. This campaign, She Conquers, seeks to reduce new HIV infections, it also seeks to reduce teenage pregnancies and focussed on keeping young girls in school - until matric at least - to stop gender-based violence and increase economic opportunities for young people. This multisectoral campaign brings together interventions by government, by civil society, by the private sector and by development partners under a coherent framework to address holistically the various factors that place young people at risk of contracting HIV.

 

 

Through this initiative adolescent girls and young women will receive an integrated comprehensive package of biomedical and behavioural changes as well as structural interventions.

Prevention programmes are aimed at shifting attitudes and behaviour in communities. Post-violence care interventions include support by Thuthuzela Care Centres that support victims of gender-based and sexual violence as well as victims of intimate partner violence at domestic violence courts.

 

 

As part of the 16 Days of Activism for No Violence Against Women and Children, the Department of Women, supported by other government departments, is currently conducting national

 

dialogues to raise awareness of the seriousness of violence amongst South Africans. These dialogues provide a platform for men and women across the country to share their stories and also to get engaged in conversations on ways to uproot the scourge of violence in our society. On the whole it is evident that there is a lot that government, supported by its partners, is doing in the area of tackling the challenge of HIV and gender-based violence. The programmes will only have a real impact if we as society take responsibility for the wellbeing of all young girls and women in our country. Any investment in programmes that ensure that they attain their full potential will secure a much better future full of opportunities for all these young women.

Thank you.

 

 

Ms P BHENGU-KOMBE: Deputy Speaker, thank you, hon Deputy President, for such an insightful, informative and empowering response to my question. Surely this requires a collective societal response and responsibility by all of us. So, what in your opinion, hon Deputy President, is the critical role that should be played by the families, communities, traditional and various community leaders in fighting the scourge of HIV/Aids and violence against women and young girls? Is government encouraging them to take up campaigns on these challenges? I thank you.

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Deputy Speaker, what really is required with regard to fighting the scourge of HIV in our country is that all of us must regard it as our responsibility to raise the level of awareness particularly amongst adolescent girls and young women who are the most exposed and where we find that the number of infections are growing at about 2 000 a week.

 

 

We need to raise that awareness to get young people to be responsible with their own sexuality, be responsible in as far as ensuring that they use condoms ... [Interjections.] ... I haven‘t got any today ... that they use condoms and they become aware of the dangers of participating in sexual activity – particularly with older men, because it is with older men that we find that the spread of the HI-virus is spreading much more among young girls and young women. Adolescent girls from about

13 to 24 years are the ones who are most exposed. So what we need to do as communities is to raise the level of awareness, to talk about Aids and as parents to also find the courage to talk about HIV in the home to our children and not be shy to discuss these matters and to stress that young people should condomise; and not only young people, people who are sexually active should condomise. We have found that the condom that I displayed here in Parliament has become so popular amongst young people that they are continuing to ask for it on an ongoing basis. We need

 

to be spreading the message that condom usage for people who participate in sexual activity is the safest way to ensure that they do not contract the disease.

 

 

The other message that we should be spreading is that we should get rid of stigma. There is still quite a lot of stigma in our communities. People who are infected by HIV are still stigmatised, they are still ostracised, and they are still discriminated against. That is a message that we need to put across. We also need to be tolerant towards people who are sex workers and people who belong to the LGBT, lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender, community. That is something that we need to do consciously and embrace them because they are just as South African as we are, they are human being just as much as we are. So if we can utilise all those approaches and interventions towards all those people who are infected and those who are at risk, we will find that we reduce the incidence and infections of HIV as much as possible.

 

 

The other one we should talk about is tuberculoses, because tuberculoses and HIV are twin diseases, they go together. Our objective is to reduce HIV and tuberculoses as much as possible. It is something that we need to talk about and I always say that as leaders we must be brave enough to, when we get on public

 

platforms, to talk about HIV, because it is when we talk about it that we spread the word and reduce the incidence of HIV. It should not just be a few people who talk about it, it should be all of us and all of us who are in this House are leaders and take to public platforms. That‘s what we need to do to reduce HIV infections. Thank you.

 

 

Ms C N MAJEKE: Deputy Speaker, hon Deputy President, violence against women and children is one of the most pervasive violations of human rights in our country. It is also one of the least prosecuted crimes which threaten peace and development.

Adding to this is violence against young women who are forcefully married before the age of 18. The question is, what plans does your Office have to make sure that justice is done to punish these perpetrators, sending a strong message to ensure that it has an effective deterrent effect on potential perpetrators? Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Deputy Speaker, clearly incidents of violence against women and children is something that we should abhor and we should take strong action against. I am glad to say that our government has taken this up in quite a serious manner and we continue to see the perpetrators of these heinous crimes being brought to book and punished. Obviously we need to see

 

more and more of that happening. Overall we actually want to see their elimination. We should eliminate violence against women and children. That too we do through raising awareness by talking about these matters as well as focusing on those who are likely to perpetrate these types of acts.

 

 

On World Aids Day we were meant to go and talk at a hostel to a group of men – it never happened, but we are going to be doing that from the Sanac, SA National Aids Council, point of view. We should focus on men, because men need a level of assistance and focus as well. So we will be taking quite a number of interventions through Sanac to focus on those who are likely to participate in these types of deeds. Through interventions like that we are able to go to them and have conversations with them. I am glad to say that, as part of Sanac, we‘ve got a number of structures that are made up of organisations that focus on men and some of them have started campaigns that says something like

?not in my name?, ?not in our name?. And so therefore more and more men are coming to the fore saying that we must never do this in our name encouraging other men to participate and spreading the word. I think it is through spreading the word and embarking on a number of innovative campaigns that we will be able to discourage many men in our country from perpetrating violence against young children and women. Thank you.

 

Ms N I TARRABELLA-MARCHESI: Deputy President, South Africa is one of the most violent nations in the world with a shocking number of 142 sexual offenses being reported daily. The Civilian Secretariat for Police found that within 145 police stations only were two were fully compliant with the Domestic Violence Act. Hon Deputy President, this leaves us with only 1,4% of police stations that fully comply with legislation to ensure that victims of violence and abuse are seen in victim-friendly rooms.

 

 

Surely you will agree that 1,4% is not enough to ensure the safety of our women and children. Therefore the question is: What will government be doing to rectify this inhumane breach; and how can we urge our women and children to come forward and speak up if they don‘t have a safe environment to do so? Thank you.

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Deputy Speaker, I couldn‘t agree more. Where I have found in police stations facilities where women and children can go and report and have these matters discussed with police officers and where I have found police officers completely dedicated to this type of task, I have found that they are able to deal with incidents of violence against women and children much more effectively with a level of compassion, a

 

level of understanding and it almost becomes an oasis where reporting does happen and action is then taken. So I couldn‘t agree more. We need to spread them more and I think it is a question of having sufficient resources. I think the intention and the will is there within the SA Police Service. It‘s a question of ensuring that they should be spread. The percentage is low, I‘m fully aware of that and we do need to spread them and add to them in large measures, particularly in more vulnerable communities where women and children are much more exposed than in others. So I agree with you. Thank you very much.

 

 

Rev K R J MESHOE: Deputy Speaker, Deputy President, in the first six to 10 years of the democratic Parliament, whenever government spoke on the issue of preventing new HIV/Aids infections you always highlighted the importance of applying the ABC-strategy. I‘ve noticed that, even as you spoke today about the programmes that government has in place, you did not say anything about that. It has been a trend over a number of years lately that government has not said anything about this strategy that you were emphasising in the first six to 10 years of the new democracy.

 

Now, what I want to know if you still believe, as you did then, that the strategy that was used successfully in Uganda is going to help South Africa? Lately it seems that a turnaround has come about. I want to know what has caused government to drop a programme that they used to boast and talk a lot about in the past. I heard the Deputy President again say that there are young people who listened to him as he was popularising condoms. Now, if the Deputy President is so aware that young people are so influenced by what he is saying, why are you not popularising the ABC-strategy that has worked in Uganda? [Time expired.]

 

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Deputy Speaker, I would like to say to hon Meshoe that if you were able to have the time to come to some of the youth expos that we hold, you would have heard me talking about ABC. I still stress ABC when I talk to young people.

Possibly it is in these hallowed walls that I discount the A because I know that here A does not mean anything because everybody possibly participates ... [Interjections.] ... possibly. But when we talk to young people, we still stress the ABC and the message that we put across is that you should abstain, because it is much nicer when you are older, so leave it for now. Abstain and participate only when you are older, that is when you will enjoy it best. Thank you very much.

 

See also QUESTIONS AND REPLIES.

 

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Speaker, I move:

 

 

That the House, approves the draft notice and schedule received from the President, dated 5 December 2016, determining the rate at which salaries and allowances or benefits are payable to magistrates annually, with effect from 1 April2016, in terms of section 12(1) (a) of the Magistrates Act (No 90 of 1993) as amended by section 3 of the Judicial Officers (Amendment of Conditions of Service) Act (No 28 of 2003).

 

 

Motion agreed to.

 

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Deputy Speaker, I want to suggest that we proceed because the Speaker is not here, and it‘s not like she is going to say anything meaningful.

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, take your seat! I don‘t know why you are speaking. I didn‘t recognise you. You can‘t just talk.

 

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: May you please recognise me?

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please, wait a minute!

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: May you please recognise me?

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, I am now calling the next speaker on the list, and that is the Chief Whip of the Opposition.

 

 

FAREWELL SPEECHES

 

 

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker ...

 

[Interjections.]

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, hon members!

 

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Let me begin by thanking all of those people behind the scenes who keep our Parliament running, the ushers, the translators, the chamber staff and those who keep this chamber looking beautiful. Allow me to also extend, once again, a very big thank you to the National Assembly table team, for their hard work, the long hours and their dedication to our institution that we are all so proud to work in.

 

 

I would also like to specifically thank Mr Mbulelo Xaso, Mr Collen Mahlangu, Mr Andrew Mbanga as well as their offices for

 

their patience and unfailing willingness to always assist. I would also like to thank the Chief Whips of the other opposition parties, notably, Mr. Shivambu, Mr Singh, Dr, Mulder, Mr.

Nkwankwa , Prof Khubisa, Mrs Dudley and Mr Ntshayisa for their good spirit, hard work and the terrific co-operation that the opposition has enjoyed this year.

 

 

Forgive me if I break with tradition this year. Chief Whip, I want to specifically thank you and to pay tribute to you, for your role, approach as well as the tremendous courage that you have shown this year. [Applause.] You fight your party corner with vigor, but your simultaneous willingness to listen to other parties and above all, to be able to disagree without being disagreeable has heralded a new era of relations in the whippery of our Parliament.

 

 

Sir, we have opposed each other vehemently on a range of issues but I want to acknowledge you and your Deputy Chief Whip, hon Dlakude, as worthy opponents, and thank you both for your efforts this year. [Applause.] Nobody can deny that 2016 has been an extremely challenging year for South Africa and a particularly difficult year for our Parliament.

 

We have faced economic uncertainty with the specter of ratings downgrades that have hung over our head for most of this year. We have also seen unprecedented violence breakout in our institutions of higher learning, where libraries have been burnt, vicious assaults taking place, damage to public property and an academic year that has been disrupted. Our schools, in places like Vuwani were also not spared.

 

 

We have been through a local government election this year that has broken the logjam in South African politics, leading to more fluidity and greater contestation in our politics. We have also sadly seen more and more of our country men and women joining the unemployment lines as our economic growth has faltered and our economy has stumbled. There will sadly be very little Christmas cheer for too many families who do not have the dignity of work.

 

 

But perhaps 2016 will be remembered more for the heightening of racial incidents in our country. We opened the year with the reprehensible and racist comments of Penny Sparrow on Facebook. Throughout the year, we have witnessed racist incidents and racial intolerance, lurching from calls for the killing of people on university campuses, to the stomach churning coffin incident to talk of genocide and eradication. There is a daily

 

barrage of racial intolerance, prejudice and incitement of violence on our social media platforms.

 

 

It is right that we condemn these acts. We must condemn them because they have no place in our democracy. What has been hard to witness though, is how the utterances of any one of these single repugnant individuals is thereafter used to somehow justify the comments of the other, like the vile racist utterances of one provides some acceptable camouflage for the other, all the while spiraling further and further into the depths of hurtful disgrace and dishonor.

 

 

These incidents only prove what we already know, South Africa today remains a deeply divided and unequal society, still struggling with deep scars and unhealed wounds from our painful past and policies that systematically divided our nation for far too long. The challenge for all of us, no matter our party, our colour or our creed, is surely to work harder to eradicate racism and racial prejudice in our organisations and institutions and to bind these wounds caused by years of pain and prejudice.

 

 

It is very easy to feel hard done by, bitter, angry and excluded in South Africa today, no matter your race, and you will

 

probably be correct for different reasons. But the burden and challenge for each of us and in our communities, no matter where we are, must be to rise above this and work harder to actually be the change we want to see. Because, South Africa, we can carry on down this destructive path of deepening division and polarisation, retreating further into our laagers of race, language, ethnicity and culture.

 

 

We can pit black against white, Muslim against Jew, Afrikaner against English, Xhosa against Zulu. But history has witnessed the world over, the terrible destination of this path of division and hate. As we lift our eyes to the further horizons of world politics, we have seen firsthand the re-emergence of the ugly narrow politics of hate and fear; politicians who cynically play up to the very worst of their supporters‘ fears of immigration, of marginalisation and of insular exclusion.

 

 

They are defying expectations, triumphing in elections and winning referendums. Our job as leaders here in South Africa, must surely be to strike out on a different path. We must, as leaders, reject the exclusionary politics of fear and hate and instead preach and practice an inclusionary politics of hope and reconciliation to our supporters. We must at all times appeal to the best of our people and not pander to the worst of them.

 

The most revered and remembered leaders of the modern age are not those who played to the base fears of their supporters, but instead, those who challenged their supporters to imagine a different world, one beyond the narrow confines of their own fear, self interest and prejudices. Our daily mission as leaders in this country must be to actively seek out wrong and do our very best to right it; to work tirelessly everyday to bridge the deep inequalities that still exist; to alleviate the suffering of too many of our people and to tear down relentlessly, the barriers that separate us.

 

 

We must each of us play our part in building a better South Africa. But we can never achieve this if we mobilise and incite our supporters against each other with inflammatory language, hatred and prejudice. We need to carry with us each day, etched upon our own hearts, the words of our nation‘s founding father, Nelson Mandela, who taught us so many lessons about reconciliation, tolerance and the rejection of violence, and he said:

 

 

No one is born hating another person because of the colour of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn learn to hate, then they

 

can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite. [Applause.]

 

 

Nobody can predict for sure exactly what challenges will face in 2017. Our country has been through difficult times before and we will go through difficult times again. But I know one thing for sure, and that is that the only time we have been able to stand up against those challenges and beat them, is when we have stood together as a nation. We truly are stronger and better together.

 

 

What is even more encouraging is that, the majority of South Africans want to work together regardless of race. In the recent Institutes of Race Relations report has shown that, far from being hostile towards one another, most South Africans, black and white, occupy a pragmatic middle ground on race relations.

The overwhelming majority of both groups believe that they need each other for progress to be made. That brings me back to the role of this Parliament, which is so uniquely positioned to reflect the kind of country we actually want to be.

 

 

It is a real microcosm of our country, representing every conceivable permutation of the rich tapestry, which is South Africa. On these benches sitting alongside each other, are white and black, Muslim and Jew, Communist and Democrats, Liberals and

 

Conservatives. We are so different from each other with different experiences, ideas and opinions, yet the thing that binds us all together is the fact that we, each of us, live in this special country on the southernmost tip of the continent and we all serve her together.

 

 

This Parliament should always set the tone and lead for our nation to follow, never forgetting its unique ability and responsibility to demonstrate and promote reconciliation, heal the divisions of the past and drive our country to greatness. A time is coming in our politics where those of us who truly love South Africa and its Constitution, will be called upon to work together much more closely than ever before. The seeds of this co-operation have already been sowed. The year 2017 will be no less intense politically, and we must guard against the language and conduct in this House that reverses the much more important project that we all know that we are engaged in.

 

 

May I, in this season of peace and goodwill, take this opportunity to wish all of you, your parties and your loved ones well over the festive season. We look forward to seeing you all in the New Year. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

The SPEAKER: Deputy Speaker, hon members, we close a few days after the ashes of comrade Fidel were left in his final resting place. I have chosen this opportunity of farewell speeches to utilise this moment as our salute as a Parliament to Fidel. As people‘s representatives, because we have to reflect on the significance of his life, he was one of a kind. If it was not for his brand of leadership, we, South Africans, would not have been enjoying freedom now. [Applause.] For it was his role as the Commander in Chief of the Cuban armed forces, his decision to send the Cuban soldiers to help the Angolan and Namibian forces to fight and defeat the SA Defence Force. This was finally achieved in the battle of Cuito Cuanavale and Southern Africa got its freedom.

 

 

Fidel‘s leadership has left humanity a legacy of internationalism that was visionary and selfless in an unmatched way in the world. We who remain must pick up his pen to spread the values he lived by, to influence the next generation of leaders and to infuse those values into the way we mould how a better world from now on into the future can look like. This Parliament did not only mark the 20th anniversary of Cuito Cuanavale through a series of seminars here in Parliament back in 2008; Parliament also honoured the role of those who fought and fell in Angola.

 

A multiparty delegation, including a Chief Whip of the DA by the way, of that time, went to Angola to Cuito Cuanavale. We learnt that the SA Defence Force had left landmines which continue to harm and kill Angolans, and the Speaker then requested South Africa to attend to that matter because Angolans were dying and were continuing to die 20 years after the war, the battle in particular of Cuito Cuanavale. And he said South Africa is one of two countries, well known in the world, for demining skills and the Angolans are requesting that we assist them to demine the area in Cuito Cuanavale.

 

 

And I am saying to effectively salute Commander in Chief Fidel, we must pursue the responsibility to put South Africa‘s international acclaimed demining skills to good use in Angola. A commitment to this outstanding task and the implementation thereof will be the best tribute to Fidel‘s life and leadership. We salute you Fidel, Rest in peace. [Applause.]

 

 

I use this opportunity to thank all of us for our role in 2016. It was a short but very intensive year and I think everybody deserves to go home, spend time with family and friends, re- energise and come back refreshed and renewed. I wish to thank you and thank the Chief Whip of the Opposition for his speech. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Deputy Speaker, perhaps 2016 represents a turning point in South Africa‘s constitutional democracy mostly due to the ruling of the Constitutional Court which was delivered on 31 March on the case that was brought by the EFF against the Speaker of the National Assembly and the President.

 

 

The judgement said that the President failed to uphold, respect and defend the Constitution. It also said that the National Assembly failed to hold the President accountable as required by the Constitution. It reaffirmed the powers of the Public Protector, a very important instrument in South Africa‘s constitutional democracy, and also instructed the President to personally pay back the money which we had said he must pay and will pay when we arrived here in Parliament; and he did so because the EFF said he must pay back that money.

 

 

It also exposed a lacuna that exists in South Africa‘s constitutional democracy. We do not have proper mechanism to hold a President accountable even when they have acted on the other side of the law. That is one lacuna that must be filled up because there are no proper mechanisms; it is just an issue that gets subjected to a vote and a narrow majoritarian aptitude is taken to defend a President without a due process. It is one of the things that have been happening.

 

We also think that 2016 was significant because in the local government elections, the ruling party got less than 54% of the votes, meaning that we are getting closer to taking them out of power. [Applause.] In the EFF it is unapologetic that our ambition and mission is to take the ruling party - the liberation movement - out of power for its failure to deliver better services to our people to bring about economic freedom in our lifetime.

 

 

It is good that now in South Africa there begins to be some sense of balance in terms of who governs the sub-national state at the provincial and local level, and it must intensify that particular programme.

 

 

The low part of 2016 is the fact that we came here as the EFF to present a framework and a plan on how we must repeal all apartheid legislation, and the ruling party did not only vote against that proposed process but it stood here to justify apartheid legislation. It justified the Righteous Assembly‘s Act in terms of how it must continue to be utilised in the post democratic dispensation; a law that was utilised to suppress and criminalised the Freedom Charter. That is what 2016 has been all about, but we want to assure people of South Africa that the EFF is still here.

 

We want to specifically thank the 1,2 million South Africans who gave us the 2,4 million votes in the local government elections. We are speaking today, three years into existence, as the EFF we have 836 councillors - public representatives at the local state who continue to advocate for economic freedom.

 

 

To us, 2016 was that significant because it has illustrated that the EFF is here to stay; and we want to assure the people of South Africa that 2017 will be even a better year. There are so many things that are going to get better here in South Africa in 2017. In 2017 this Parliament is going to be much more vibrant because of the EFF. The EFF will be there.

 

 

We want to take this opportunity, lastly, to wish all South Africans, all Members of Parliament including those of the ANC, a safe and sound festive season. Happy Christmas and happy new year. We want to call on all bareki [buyers] to spend their money wisely, they must not spend it in useless activities but must use it to prepare for the next year and make sure that they take their children to school.

 

 

Lastly, we want to call on the student that when 2017 begins you must continue with the struggle to demand fee-free education for

 

all because that is a cornerstone for economic freedom in our lifetime. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

 

 

Prince M G BUTHELEZI: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Speaker, your Excellency or Deputy President, hon Ministers, hon Deputy Ministers and hon members of the National Assembly, I have often affirmed that the IFP will support government where government does the right thing, and we will support the President when the President does the right thing. But when they don‘t, we will speak truth to power and loudly oppose it. Unfortunately this has been a year of almost nonstop ?speaking truth to power?.

 

 

The year 2016 has been a tough year for the National Assembly, often marked by frustration and distraction. There has been anger and animosity, and much has been said about the President, both from the opposition benches as well as within his own party. But behind all the laments over the state of our country and its leadership, lies a deep patriotism. It is not out of hatred for the President that we speak. Those who seek what is best for South Africa are not enemies of the President, but patriots who are concerned about our nation‘s future.

 

 

Thus, as we enter now into a time of peace, commemorating the birth of the Prince of Peace, let there be peace between us. Let

 

us look at one another as fellow patriots, not as enemies. Over this festive season, let us spend time praying for our country. Looking back on 2016, we recall some great losses, including former Minister, the hon Makhenkesi Stofile, the hon Dene Smuts and the hon Mr Clarence Makwethu.

 

 

We also remember great celebrations, including the 80th birthday of the hon Mrs Madikizela Mandela, and of course the wedding of our hon Speaker. The year 2016 was of big decisions, including South Africa‘s withdrawal from the International Criminal Court. But it was also a year of avoiding decisions, which has kept the unaffordable nuclear spend on the table, as well as prolonging the debacle on the SABC.

 

 

One thing we have learned in 2016 is that, when we work together, remarkable good is achieved. This year‘s greatest achievement is undoubtedly the victory for medical innovation. We honour the late hon Dr Oriani-Ambrosini who opened the door, and we thank everyone in this House for walking through it. May 2016 be remembered, not only as a year of economic decline, political skulduggery and growing corruption, but as the year that we as Members of Parliament fought for the health of our nation.

 

Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Speaker, your Excellency, hon Ministers, hon Deputy Ministers, both in this House and in committees, the IFP remains the voice of reason. Despite Parliament providing little research assistance to smaller parties, we have contributed wisdom to every debate. We do this for the sake of a country we love and a nation that has asked us to serve. On behalf of the IFP, I wish us all a healthy and peaceful festive season. Thank you.

 

 

Prof N M KHUBISA: Deputy Speaker and hon members, the time of year has come where families unite in shared fellowship, a time of friendship, warmth, rest and peace. It is also a time of the year when the vast majority of South Africans will be celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ who gave the world His gifts of grace, salvation, forgiveness and hope.

 

 

We trust that this message of love and compassion will reawaken in our hearts a sense of kindness and humility and a desire to live in harmony with each other and gracious giving to our fellow brothers and sisters especially to those who are in lack. However, we cannot walk away from 2016 without taking a last look upon it. It has been a year with its ups and downs, but when all is said and done, we are thankful that all efforts and actions were geared towards nation building.

 

We need intensify our efforts to fight poverty and creating an environment which is conducive to job creation and we have seen valiant attempts to hold the executive to account for tax payer funds allocated to it. Some of these efforts were successful, others were not. At times we exchanged strong words but there is no harm in that; we have to be robust because politics is a space of contestation and we are all here to make sure the voice of the people is heard loud and clear.

 

 

During the year, we also learnt various lessons and some inconvenient truths. Our economy is underperforming, in fact, our economy remains in the grip of political contestation which severely impacts negatively on our ability to engineer economic growth, and the shenanigans of the National Prosecuting Authority have contributed to our economic woes.

 

 

We have also seen that corruption levels have increased and are flourishing because we have a serious lack of sound financial control in some of our departments and state-owned entities.

High unemployment continues to haunt us and poverty levels are increasing slowly but surely. We need to consolidate our efforts to fight the scourge of poverty.

 

Bearing in mind these inconvenient truths, regardless of our ideological differences and our actions and engagements, what should come first is the plight of our people. We cannot turn a blind eye to the pressures of poverty, hunger, unemployment and other ravages of social deprivation and economic constraints which they have to face on a daily basis. For many, this will not be a time of festivities and joy for they will continue to be hungry, to be poor and to be neglected by a society which is becoming uncaring. We can change that if we unite in a common purpose and concern for the people, if we put our differences aside and hold hands to help build a better 2017 for all our people.

 

 

Finally, the NFP wishes everyone, the Speaker and all of us a happy Christmas and a prosperous new year. Thank you so much.

 

 

Mr N L S KWANKWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon members ...

 

 

... phaya emakhaya kukho ingoma ethi, ?Uthwel‘impahla uyahamba uMamTshawe?. Siza kuthi ngoku amaLungu ePalamente athwele impahla ayahamba amaLungu ePalamente. [... back at home there is a song that says, ?Mamtshawe took her luggage, she is leaving?. Now we will say, Members of Parliament took their luggage, they are leaving.]

 

On behalf of the UDM I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone both from the opposition and the ruling party for the hard work and spirit of co-operation during the year 2016.

 

 

Colleagues, working together we have demonstrated that we are capable and even stronger than the some total of challenges that faced us this year. However, I must be the first one to admit that there were many times that we allowed our differences which are more imagined than real which are in no ways sinister to stand in our way to build South Africa in which we all look into the sunrise of our tomorrow.

 

 

During this time for instance as Parliament we tended to be inwardly focused, fighting among ourselves about issues that at times largely had little to do with the betterment of the lives of the people of South Africa. Nowhere was there is more evident than during the fees must fall campaign where instead of working together; where instead of pulling together towards the same direction we allowed our students not to allow us to play part in forwarding their calls of free higher education. This disconnection between us as public representatives should worry us and the people of South Africa. It should compel us to double our efforts towards building a Parliament in 2017 that is truly responsive to the needs of the people of South Africa.

 

As I do this I also wish to remind us that every time we bicker and fight about something that in the bigger scheme of things is insignificant, may be we should draw wisdom from John Knox Bokwe‘s Plea For Africa. Borrowing his words I say when we debate matters in this House, we should give a thought to the people of South Africa because beneath the burning sun there are lots of weary hearts waiting for us to provide leadership to them and to provide solutions to their problems instead of fighting among ourselves. As we do so, I wish to say reiterate that as members of Parliament, as leaders, people of South Africa we all have the responsibility to build the South Africa in which we all look forward to the sunrise of our tomorrow.

 

 

I wish to take this opportunity to wish all of you a splendiferous festive seasons and a prosperous new year.

 

 

Siyabulela. [Thank you.]

 

 

Rev K R J MESHOE: Deputy Speaker, we have finally come to the end of a busy Parliamentary session that was full of surprises, embarrassments, successes and disappointments in a year that seems to have gone by very fast.

 

On behalf of the ACDP, I wish all convey my best wishes to all hon members and also wish you to have a refreshing time of rest with their families, and trust that they will use these coming holidays to reflect on what people are saying about debates and the behaviour of members of Parliament in this House, and then prepare positive responses to criticisms that that are levelled against us.

 

 

There are a few choices we must make for the decorum and the dignity of this House to be restored: Firstly, I want to propose that we must choose to respect one another in spite of our different positions on policy. It is unbecoming for members to insult, demean and humiliate one another because of political differences. The ACDP does not want to see tensions and confrontations in this House to escalate to political violence by criminals who are waiting for an excuse to pounce on their political opponents. I want to appeal, as I have done before to all members that we should not undermine the respect that nations of the world have for South Africa because of our inability to forgive and reconcile. This Parliament is expected to lead by example in nation building programmes and nations of the world are watching South Africa.

 

Secondly, we must choose to respect the rules, procedures and structures of Parliament. If we are not happy with certain rules, then we should formally make proposals for changes to the appropriate forums in Parliament, and not undermine existing rules.

 

 

As we are going into recess, I want to once more plead with hon members to reflect on what happened in this House, and to decide whether they want to continue with the disrespect we have seen or whether or whether we are going to be part of the solution that will restore the credibility and dignity of this House.

 

 

When King Solomon was given an opportunity to ask something from God, he asked for two things. The book of I Kings 3:9 tell us that he asked for wisdom to govern God‘s people righteously, and secondly, he asked for a discerning heart to distinguish between right and wrong. I therefore challenge members to members to ask God for wisdom to govern and treat God‘s people justly and to ask Him for the ability to distinguish between right and wrong with the intention of doing right before Him and all our people.

 

 

May the Lord bless you and keep you members of Parliament throughout the recess period, and may you and your loved ones

 

have a blessed Christmas and a prosperous new year. I pray for your peace. Thank you.

 

 

Mr W MADISHA: Deputy Speaker, we rise to thank all members and in particular members of staff for having worked extremely hard throughout. As we end this session, we need ask ourselves numerous questions. Have we succeeded to deliver what South Africans, - the people who have sent us here - expected of us.

 

 

Through you Deputy Speaker, I rise to say hon Deputy President, that no, we haven‘t. That because hunger and unemployment have risen. Poverty amongst the working class and the poor of our country has and continues to rise. Intra and inter- organisational and racial hatred are growing daily. Government corruption grows daily and has been proven either in courts or by the Public Protector. We have all these kind of problems. If we have got to move and make sure that we do succeed, then we indeed have got to move and do that which we said had to be done. All that we do today is to rise through you Deputy Speaker, my Deputy President and everyone here present as members all that we do is to rise and say this is what Nelson Mandela said etc. But that does not take us forward. We rise and say this is what the manifesto said, etc. That does not take us

 

forward. All that we need to do is to say here are the problems that the people of our country are faced with.

 

 

The children in our schools, the students out there are faced with all this momentous challenges and their parents, etc are unable to pay because the working and the poor people of our country in particular are unable to survive. Hence I rise to say through you hon Deputy Speaker, that Deputy President, we have not succeeded and we will come back next year; all these momentous challenges that one has raised have got to be dealt with by hook or crook or we are not getting anywhere altogether. But please, go and rest and we hope more shall be attained. [Applause.]

 

 

Mr S M JAFTA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I must differ a bit from what the hon speaker has said and say that this has been too long a year, much interesting and full of new experiences, to which even the seasoned members of this Parliament were never exposed. Our democracy deepened and that has been proven by the political maturity the citizens of this country have shown in the recent local government elections, on 3 August this year.

 

 

Honestly, many did not believe that the unexpected could happen, but it really did. The country had to witness the inevitable

 

decline of support for some political parties, which many considered as everlasting while on the other hand some, like the AIC showed their undisturbed steady and sure growth. Really, South African politics were very much interesting, inside and outside the country.

 

 

As we depart today to our various constituencies and provinces, only to meet again next year, on behalf of the AIC I want to join all those speakers and colleagues before me and wish every member and official of this Parliament the best for the end of 2016.

 

 

I also want to urge the members of this House that we must focus more on the positive achievements we made this year as Parliament, so as to remain optimistic about the future of our country. Yes, we need to give attention also to the negative side of our performance - but with the intention of improving where we did not do well, for the whole nation is looking at us for its future. We must then all go home and meet again next year. I thank you.

 

 

Mr M A PLOUAMMA: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Deputy President, hon Speaker ...

 

Mme, ke nyaka go go botša gore mo go nna mamohla o mme, ga o lebelelege bjalo ka Sepikara. Re leboga mošomo woo o o dirilego. O šomile gabotse, mma.

 

 

Motlatšasepikara, ke kgopela go go botša gore, mogolo wa ka, re tlile go gopola SeAfrikaans ya gago, se o ratago go se bolela ka mo Palamenteng. Ntate Westhuizen, ke a tseba gore ga o tsebe Sepedi mogolo wa ka, fela ke kgopela go go botša gore re ithutile tše dintši. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)

 

 

[Hon Madame Speaker, I would love to tell you that you feel like a mother to me today, not the usual Speaker of Parliament. We are very grateful for the work that you have done so far. Well done!

 

 

Deputy Speaker, I must tell you that we will remember the Afrikaans language which you used here in Parliament. Mr Westhuizen, I know that you are not familiar with Sepedi, sir, but I have to say that you have learnt a lot.]

 

 

We truly learnt a lot from your comments and arguments in this Parliament.

 

Batho ba gešo, seo ke nyakago go le botša sona ke gore kamoka ga rena re bana ba motho. [My people, what I am trying to tell you is that we are one.]

 

 

It doesn‘t matter. Even if we come from different political parties but what is important is that this democracy ...

 

 

.. ke ya rena ka moka. Re bana ba Afrika-Borwa. Re swanetše re e šireletše. Diphaphano tša rena di se re dire manaba; ga re manaba le gatee. Ke rena re bontšhago batho ka moka ba Afrika- Borwa tsela le go ba mohlala go bona gore ba kgone go bona gore demokrasi ya bona e šireletšegile. Ke bolela le lena ka moka Maloko a Palamente gore nna le ba lapa laka ka moka re tla le gopola. Ke tlile go le gopola ka dintlha tša tokišo tša lena.

 

 

Ke tlile go le gopola dilong ka moka tše di diragalago ka mo Palamenteng le go myemyela ga lena ka moka. Le tsebe gore ke le rapediša gore le boeng ka moka. Le fihle gae le hlokomeleng malapa a lena gabotse. Se segolo bophelong ga se go oketša lehloyo, efela ke gore re thekgane, re phuthane, gore le moloko wa ka moso o kgone go bona gore Afrika-Borwa e be e le ka fase ga diatla tša baetapele ba nnete.

 

Rakgolo waka, mokgalabje Kgoši Gatsha Buthelezi, ke leboga go ba le wena ka mo Palamenteng ngwaga wo, tate ... (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)

 

 

... belongs to all of us. We are all children of this country. We have to safeguard it. Our challenges must not make us enemies; we are not enemies at all. We are the ones who must lead all the other South Africans by example to assure them that their democracy is safeguarded. I am appealing to you all as Members of Parliament. I am saying that my family and I will remember you because of your good deeds.

 

 

I will remember all the work we did here in Parliament as well as your smiles. I also need you to know that I am praying for you all to come back. Take good care of your families when you get back home. Highlighting hatred and anger is not what is great in life; support for each other is what is great to put South Africa in a better position in the future, under great leadership.

 

 

My grandpa, hon Buthelezi, it has been an absolute honour being in this Parliament with you this year, sir ...]

 

 

... you are a living history.

 

Go rena mogolo wa ka, go go bona o le ka gare ga Palamente ye

 

... [For us to see you in this Parliament ...]

 

 

... is history in the making.

 

 

Ke tshepa gore Modimo O tla ba le wena gore o boe gape ngwaga wo o tlago. [I trust that God will be with you so that you can return to this Parliament next year.]

 

 

To all leaders in this Parliament ...

 

 

... ke leboga go ba le lena bohle nakong ye. Sebakeng sa Agang, 2016, ke a leboga. [It has been a pleasure to be with you all. On behalf of Agang, thank you.]

 

 

Mr T GODI: Hon Deputy Speaker, comrades, hon members, the NA Table, Madam Speaker, as we come to the end of our session, looking back, we are proud that the APC has consistently spoken in the interest of the African nation and the working class. A golden thread ran through all our interventions of Africanism, raising the challenges of poverty, unemployment and inequality, construed distractions and false flag operations and this critical national problems gets buried away from our discourses.

 

I get a sense that our people do watch the parliamentary channel, which is good but there continue to be concerns, some raised about the spectacle that parliament sometimes degenerates into. It is the APC‘s hope that when we return next year our proceedings will be calmer and more focused. Parliament can and must constantly improve its oversight capacity in order to fully realise its constitutional mandate. Despite wranglings in the Chamber, we however work much harmoniously in committees, especially in the Public Accounts Committee. Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa, has broken new ground in its oversight work. No longer do we only have National Treasury and the Auditor-General in our meetings but we now have the police, the Hawks and the Commercial Crimes Unit - in a way, contributing to ending impunity for financial misconduct in the public sector. Parliament must not just be a talking platform but it must be able to impact on the conduct of the executive in the interest of our people. Let this be our hallmark in 2017.

 

 

Kgotso ga e be le lena. [May peace be with you.] Kurhula. [Peace.]

 

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Speaker, hon Speaker, all Ministers present and members of Parliament, I first want to agree with the hon Steenhuisen that indeed working

 

together we can do more. This is what we have started doing so that this Parliament that was bequeathed to us by our leaders such as Mandela, Mama Sisulu and many others, continues to deliver to all the citizens who brought us here. We fully agree with you. We also agree with Rev Meshoe that indeed through respect to one another and also through respect for the rules that govern this institution, we can also do more. We are in full agreement.

 

 

Hon Shenge, it is always an honour to have you in this House, let me quote you today ?thus as we enter now into a time of peace, commemorating the birth of the Prince of Peace, let there be peace between us. Let us look at one another as fellow patriots and not enemies. ?You also continued and said, ?We do this for the sake of a country we love and a nation that has asked us to serve. Siyabonga baba. [Applause.] We thank you Mntwana kaPhindangene, for the guidance you have consistently given to us as an elder in this House. Hon Shenge, your words of wisdom have been most valuable to this House even when all of us lost our heads, you did not lose your sanity, Shenge. [Applause.]

 

 

Hon members, this week as South Africans we lost one of our most treasured and beloved sons, Sifiso Ncwane, a young, yet one of

 

our most revered gospel music legends. Our hearts bleed because of this untimely death and loss to our nation and people. To the Ncwane family, his loved ones and South Africans at large we say

...

 

 

... duduzekani bakwethu, akuhlanga lungehli. [... be comforted; please accept what has happened as fate.]

 

 

It gives me great pleasure to stand here before you on this the last sitting of Parliament in the calendar year 2016 to bid all of you farewell. Indeed it is true that parting is a sweet sorrow, on the one hand parting is sweet because of the memories of our company together that we forever shall cherish; on the other hand it is sorrowful because we shall at least for a little while not share the same spaces and in that regard we shall miss each other‘s company.

 

 

As I stand here, let me join you, hon Speaker, that I am impelled by mixed emotions that have marked my responsibilities as the Chief Whip of the majority party since I took office this year. It is indeed a bitter-sweet moment for us that we were able to persuade Parliament not only to hold a debate in honour and commemoration of the passing of El Commandante Fidel Castro, but also persuaded Parliament to send a multiparty delegation to

 

his Funeral Memorial in Santiago were it not for circumstances beyond our control, that delegation would have fulfilled its mandate. It is the first time in history that our Parliament has passed a condolence motion and resolved to send a delegation to attend a funeral of a world leader and icon outside the borders of South Africa.

 

 

Again, at times we are just too hard on one another, these are some of the things that we must be thankful for in doing our work. [Applause.] Whilst we mourn the passing of this selfless anti-imperialist internationalist we are also humbled by the contribution we have made through Parliament in his honour. We did all of this and gave these accolades to this outstanding gallant leader of all the poor, marginalised and oppressed people throughout the world, informed by the immense contribution that President and El Commandante Fidel Castro made to democracy, and we fully agree with you Speaker, and freedoms we enjoy today.

 

 

This Parliament as a multi-party forum of democratic debate depends on consensus and political management of the institution, inclusive of its programmes. We appreciate and continue to attempt to engender and enhance co-operation and collegiality amongst parties, this we believe is what our

 

forebears who are our trail bearers in the corridors of this institution expect of us in this conjuncture.

 

 

Hon Speaker and Deputy Speaker, after suffering from criticism after criticism from civil society specifically and the people of South Africa in general, on how non-transparent we were in appointing people to statutory institutions, we have listened and remedied our wrongdoings. We now emphasise utmost transparency and meaningful public participation throughout the stages of the appointment process as enshrined in the Constitution. We have also endeavored to secure consensus by all political parties when recommending candidates for appointment and have since been able to recommend best candidates for appointment. In this regard all but one party agreed with the then candidate for the Public Protector position, the same is true regarding the candidate for the position of the Inspector General of Intelligence.

 

 

This transparent approach to appointments by our Parliament has been followed in relation to Commissioners for the South African Human Rights Commission as well as Public Service Commission.

The almost unanimous support of the candidates alluded to above, beyond narrow and again agreeing with you, hon Steenhuisen, beyond party political lines, has engendered the notion of a

 

people-centred activist Parliament working in the interest of all our people and our country.

 

 

We also strengthened our collective exercise of oversight over the executive and statutory bodies; a case in point is the ongoing inquiry into the SABC board. After the former Public Protector had made adverse findings and taken remedial action against certain employees of the SABC. The SABC board and the employees lost several appeals in court and were ordered by the courts to implement the Public Protectors‘ remedial action.

Further to this it became clear that the manner in which certain decisions were taken by the board of the SABC including amendment of the editorial policy were prima facae unlawful.

 

 

The Portfolio Committee on Communications in response then invited the SABC board to respond to some critical questions, however the responses of the board did not satisfy the committee; subsequently the committee decided to institute an enquiry on the fitness of the board to hold office. It is because of the resolve of this National Assembly that today after several attempts to block the inquiry from commencing, the inquiry did begin and we believe that its findings and recommendations will go a long way to restore stability and confidence in this precious asset of our people called the SA

 

Broadcasting Corporation. We are indeed demonstrating to our people that to us the interests of the people are paramount and that at all time we shall act without fear of the powerful, favour for the friendly and prejudice against the dubious.

 

 

We join millions of South Africans including all parties in this House in condemning the contemptuous conduct of the SABC in staging a walk out from the ad hoc committee meeting this morning whilst the enquiry was ongoing. Another area where we have worked together but also at times differed has been in the passing of legislation. In this regard we were able to pass the budget within the prescribed time in the beginning of the year. Of course, as we all know, we also passed the Division of Revenue Amendment Bill later this year with all the challenges that accompanied its passing.

 

 

What has also been of critical importance in the work of Parliament has been engagements of MPs in their Constituency areas. The Constituency Offices of MPs create an environment in which MPs are able to be appraised and informed of the various difficulties, hardships and challenges that constrain our people on a daily basis. Some of the challenges faced by our people include crime, unemployment and lack of skills by citizenry to engage in productive employment. Of equal importance in areas

 

that would confront MPs in their constituencies would be stubborn poverty levels and the persistent cry of communities in our country to be assisted out of the scourge of drugs and drug trafficking. It‘s these stubborn fault-lines in our communities that come from our apartheid past which need ventilation and expression in our Parliament. We need to continuously deep-stick the extent to which our democratic state and government have addressed these fault-lines and what more still needs to be done.

 

 

It is my strong view, Deputy Speaker, that the programme of Parliament plenary sessions should over and above Members‘ Statements and Notices of Motion include plenary discussions on issues arising directly from constituency work. Such constituency-centric plenary debates would increase the relevance of our Parliament to the people of South Africa as our interaction with communities would then be a real and not an imagined part of our parliamentary activism. This is what we should be including in the programme of Parliament next year.

 

 

As we end the year we appreciate the support we have had from our organisation the mighty glorious African National Congress and its leadership and membership. We also take the opportunity to express our appreciation for the support we have received

 

from the Whips of the African National Congress Members in Parliament and all ANC Members of Parliament in the ANC Parliamentary Caucus. It would be remiss of us not to thank the support we received throughout the year from Chief Whips of other parties despite some disagreements at times which were necessary but cordial.

 

 

We further wish all South Africans a happy festive season and trust that we will all enjoy this precious time with our families and loved ones. Farewell to you all comrades, compatriots and friends! May you be safe throughout the festive season! Till we meet again next year. Siyabulela. [Applause.]

 

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, on behalf of the Presiding Officers we would like to associate ourselves with the good wishes to all of you, your families, friends and families that you are going to be reunited with and spend quality time with them. Please pay attention to your level of fitness; it will improve your mood in the New Year. [Laughter.] Let us dedicate ourselves to making 2017 a good one for the poor of our country and those who are vulnerable. We owe it to them as public representatives. Thank you very much and that concludes the farewell speeches and the year.

 

House adjourned at 17:29

 

 

 

 

 

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

 

 

ANNOUNCEMENTS

 

 

National Assembly

 

 

The Speaker

 

 

1. Referral to Committees of papers tabled

 

 

(1) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Correctional Services for consideration and report:

 

 

(a) Report dated 30 November 2016 on the provisional suspension from office of Ms S R Monaledi, the Regional Court President, North West, in terms of section 13(3)(b) of the Magistrates Act, 1993 (Act No 90 of 1993).

 

 

(b) Report dated 30 November 2016 on the withholding of remuneration of Magistrate P S Hole, a regional magistrate at Kimberley, in terms of section 13(4A)(b) of the Magistrates Act, 1993 (Act No 90 of 1993).

 

(c) Report dated 30 November 2016 on the suspension of Magistrate P S Hole, a regional magistrate at Kimberley, in terms of section 13(4)(a)(i) of the Magistrates Act, 1993 (Act No 90 of 1993).

 

 

(2) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Health for consideration:

 

 

(a) Report of the Auditor-General on Performance Audit of the management of pharmaceuticals at the departments of Health [RP 313-2016].

 

 

(3) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Water and Sanitation for consideration:

 

 

(a) Report of the Auditor-General on Performance Audit on water infrastructure at the Department of Water and Sanitation [RP 314-2016].

 

 

(4) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Basic Education and the Portfolio Committee on Higher Education and Training for consideration and to the Committee on Public Accounts:

 

 

(a) Education Sector Report for 2015-16 of the Auditor-General South Africa [PR 360- 2016].

 

TABLINGS

 

 

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

 

 

1. The Minister of Water and Sanitation

 

 

(a) Report and Financial Statements of the Amatola Water Board for 2015-16, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2015-16.

 

 

(b) Report and Financial Statements of the Lepelle Northern Water for 2015-16, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2015-16.

 

 

(c) Report and Financial Statements of the Bloem Water for 2015-16, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2015-16.

 

 

(d) Report and Financial Statements of the Magalies Water for 2015-16, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2015-16.

 

(e) Report and Financial Statements of Mhlathuze Water for 2015-16, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2015-16.

 

 

(f) Report and Financial Statements of the Rand Water for 2015-16, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2015-16.

 

 

(g) Report and Financial Statements of the Umgeni Water for 2015-16, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2015-16.

 

 

(h) Report and Financial Statements of Sedibeng Water for 2015-16, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2015-16.

 

 

National Assembly

 

 

1. The Speaker

 

(a) Letter from the Minister of Water and Sanitation dated 06 December 2016 to the Speaker of the National Assembly explaining the reasons for the delay in the tabling of the Annual Report of Overberg Water for 2015-16.

 

OVERBERG WATER: LATE TABLING OF ANNUAL REPORT IN PARLIAMENT

 

 

In terms of section 55(1)(d) of the Public Finance Management Act, 1999 (Act No. 1 of 1999) (PFMA) the accounting authority for a public entity must submit within five months of the end of the financial year, i.e. 30 November of each year, to the executive authority responsible for that public entity its annual report and financial statements for tabling in Parliament.

In terms of section 65(1) of the PFMA the executive authority for a public entity must table in the National Assembly the annual report and financial statements of the public entity not later than 30 December of each year.

In terms of section 65(2) of the PFMA if an executive authority fails to table within the prescribed period, the executive authority must table a written explanation in the legislature setting out the reasons why the annual reports were not tabled.

Overberg Water failed to submit their annual report and financial statements within the set timeframe. The reasons for late tabling are as follows:

• The AR was not submitted to the Board of OW on time and till to date; the AR has not yet been presented to the Audit, Risk and Finance Committee for consideration prior to submission to Board for approval.

• The failure by senior management of OW to execute and deliver on the operational management responsibilities in a competent and ethical manner and in the best interest of OW, has consequently resulted in OW's failure to meet statutory obligations, including the first late submission of its AFS and AR.

 

• The Acting Chief Executive of OW, Ms ONV Fundakubi, and the Chief Financial Officer of OW, Ms A Cilliers, did not indicate on time to the Board nor the Auditor General of South Africa (AGSA) that there would be scope limitations to the extent that AFS would be submitted by the stipulated date.

 

 

Subsequent to telephonic and email queries by my Department, Overberg Water undertook to deliver their annual report on 30 November 2016. To date their Annual Report has not been delivered, however my Department will continue to pursue this issue with the Water Board.

Yours sincerely

 

 

(Signed)

 

MRS N P MOKONYANE

 

MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION

 

 

COMMITTEE REPORTS

 

 

National Assembly

 

 

Please see pages 6-16 of the ATCs.

 

 

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