Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 18 Aug 2015

Summary

No summary available.

Minutes

TUESDAY, 18 AUGUST 2015

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PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

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The House met at 14:00.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

NOTICES OF MOTION

Ms V BASSON: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates the effects of drugs in our schools and in the young generation in our communities, and how to address this challenge.

The LEADER OF OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House debates the state of corruption in South Africa, noting that the exorbitant costs of the upgrades to the President’s private residence in Nkandla fights its value of upgrades while allowing him to benefit unduly. The bid the upgrades were under taking on the behest of the President but escalated by officials who have no regard for responsibility for use of public funds.

Ms M T KUBAYI: I rise on a point of order!

The SPEAKER: What is your point of order, hon Kubayi?

Ms M T KUBAYI: The motion read by hon Maimane is pre-empting the debate that is before the House. The Rules do not allow what he is doing.

The SPEAKER: He is correct, hon member.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I rise on a point of order madam Speaker! This is not calling for this matter to be discussed today, when the report is being discussed. It is giving notice of a motion for a future day. There is no way that it is going to anticipate exactly what is going to be said

The SPEAKER: But, the issue is on the Order Paper. That is the whole point.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, with respect. It is giving notice of a motion, it is not a motion without notice, asking for it to be agreed and be adopted today. It is giving notice that on a future date, hon Maimane would like to discuss this matter. It is also far more wide ranging than the Ad-hoc Committee ... [inaudible.]

The SPEAKER: How do you know that, hon Steenhuisen?

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Because I read the motion with; respect. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Hon Steenhuisen, the motion is sustained. Can I have any other member?

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Thank you, the motion is sustained. Thank you.

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: But, I haven’t finished, Madam Speaker! Madam Speaker, I was not finished, If I can finish, then ... [Inaudible.]

The SPEAKER: No, hon Maimane, I have sustained the point of order. Please submit your motion and we will look ... [Interjections.]

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: But I need to finish the last two ... [Inaudible.] [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: ... at its correctness or otherwise.

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: It is correct in this instance.

The SPEAKER: No, hon member. Now, please take your seat.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order!

The SPEAKER: I recognise the member of the EFF. [Interjections.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Point of order Madam Speaker!

The SPEAKER: No hon Steenhuisen, your point of order is still about the Maimane ... [Interjections.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: It is not, Madam Speaker.

The SPEAKER: What is it?

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I would like you to refer this matter to the Rules Committee, [Interjections.] for a ruling on it.

Mr K Z MORAPELA: I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

That the House debates the poor and delayed response time by the emergency medical services, especially in rural areas.

Prof N M KHUBISA: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the NFP:

That the House deliberate on the way the South African Music Rights Organisation, Samro, which deals with all affairs of musicians, particularly the payments of royalties and other benefits to musicians in the Republic of South Africa. This emanates from the allegations that Samro has failed to account for the payout of R5 million for the 2012-13 financial year.

Ms D CARTER: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of COPE:

That the House discuss the immoral and unlawful behaviour of South African Social Security Agency, Sassa, officials who make illegal deductions from pensioners and child grants recipients.

Mr P G MOTEKA: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

That the House debates the current state of transformation of South African sports, rugby and cricket in particular after our 21 years of freedom and the need for punitive action against sporting bodies that refuse to embrace the transformed and united sport.

Ms T E BAKER: I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House debates the eThekwini municipalities, which recently imposed severe water restrictions on the KwaZulu-Natal north coast, and how neglect and a lack of maintenance exacerbated conditions caused by lower than average rainfall.

Mr C D MATSEPE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House debates the re-instatement of finishing schools for those rural communities who cannot afford transport costs for their children to Technical and Vocational Education and Training, TVET, colleges.

Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House debates the dire need to bring about significant, sustainable structural changes to the South African economy in order to increase job creation as growth is currently being led by consumption driven sectors which are growing twice as far as is the production take place.

Ms V KETABAHLE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

That the House debates the high level of indebtedness among employees, who many cannot afford increasing standard of living and resort to resigning and catch their pension prematurely.

Mr F BEUKMAN: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates the implementation of the recommendations of the National Planning Commission, with regard to the provisionalisation and demilitarisation of the SA police Services.

Ms N CAPA: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House should discuss ensuring all the pending and controversial areas in the process of municipal demarcation are resolved in time before the 2016 local government elections.

Ms N CAPA: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That this House debates how the lack of monitoring and compliance enforcements of the Department of Mineral resources over the 1 400 plus licensed and countless unlicensed mines negatively impact the environment, health of surrounding communities and threatens food security; further whether the authority to approve Environmental Impact Assessment, EIA, should be returned to the Minister of Environmental Affairs.

Mr D W MACPHERSON: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House debates the very slow results coming out of Operation Phakisa and what is the cause for this.

Mrs L L VAN DER MERWE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That this House debates the recent alarming attacks on the media by prominent leaders which falsely seek to portray our print media as a political opposition and which further seeks to suggest that doing their work without fear or favour is closer to treason than patriotism and the need to reaffirm the fourth estates as the invaluable pillar of our democracy.

Prof B BOZOLLI: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House debates the practices of virginity testing and ukuthwala; particularly in the light of the fact that at its recent congress the ANC Women’s League endorsed both of this patriarchal practices.

Ms N R BHENGU: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates the pillars of the South African mixed economy and how they relate to community economy development.

Ms E N LOUW: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

That the House debates the legal aspects of the position taken by the Minister of Rural Development and Land Reform, through the Communal Land Tenure Policy that on matters relating to land and land reform in the rural countryside, the department will only deal with traditional council and not with Communal Property Associations.

Ms P BHENGU: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House debates the plight of women in rural areas of South Africa, and how they participate in programmes to change their lives for the better.

Mr M N PAULSEN: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

That the House debates the growing phenomenon of evictions of farm labourers despite legislative mechanisms such as the Extension of Security of Tenure Act and the Interim Protection of Informal Land Rights Act and what needs to be done to ensure the security of tenure of all farmworkers and rural dwellers.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House debates the biased and hair-brained interpretation of rules such as the nonexistence of sub judice rule and the misuse of the rule of anticipation by certain presiding officers to suppress freedom of speech in this House. [Applause.]

MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

TEMPORARY POSTS CONVERTED TO PERMANENT POSTS BY HEALTH DEPARTMENT

(Draft Resolution)

Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House —

notes that the government had stated its intentions to convert all temporary health care workers posts to permanent posts;

further notes that the NFP has consistently championed the costs of health care workers in the country in their quest to have the government convert their employment from temporary to permanent and ensure all health care workers enjoy the benefit accordingly;

finally notes that the process of converting the temporary posts to permanent posts has now been confirmed and has began in Port Elizabeth; and

congratulates the government and the Department of Health on finally starting to implement the conversion of temporary health care posts, to permanent posts and we urge the Department of Health to accelerate the process across all the provinces.

The SPEAKER: Are there any objections to the motion? Yes. In the light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of a motion.

TRAGIC ACCIDENT NEAR UMHLALI NORTH OF DURBAN IN KWAZULU-NATAL

(Draft Resolution)

Prof N M KHUBISA: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House —

notes that a tragic accident happened yesterday near Umhlali North of Durban in KwaZulu-Natal;

further notes that a taxi collided with the train and 14 people died on the scene of the accident, and others who were critically injured were taken to hospital;

recognises that this accident has taken the lives of our brothers and sisters who were breadwinners of their families;

conveys its condolences to the families, relatives and friends of the deceased persons;

calls upon the Department of Transport and the Department of Transport, Community Safety and Liaison in KwaZulu-Natal to conduct an investigation into the cause of the accident and report to the families of the deceased, the injured and the public;

further calls upon all road users to exercise caution when they are on the road.

There being an objection to the motion, the motion without notice became a notice of a motion.

AIRCRAFT CRASH ON SUNDAY 16 AUGUST 2015 IN TYGERBERG CAPE TOWN

(Draft Resolution)

Mr M WATERS: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House —

notes that this past Sunday 16 August 2015, an E-Med Rescue 24 aeromedical aircraft crashed into the Tygerberg Nature Reserve just outside of Cape Town;

further notes that the tragedy claimed the lives of two pilots, a paramedic, an 80-year-old patient and the patient’s daughter;

acknowledges that the aircraft was transporting a patient from Oranjemund in Namibia, to Panorama Medi Clinic before it went missing shortly prior to its scheduled arrival at 7 a.m.;

further acknowledges that the SA Civil Aviation Authority has began this extensive investigation into the cause of the accident; and

conveys its sincere condolences to the families of the five victims and wishes them well during this difficult time.

There being an objection to the motion, the motion without notice became a notice of a motion.

MONDAY 17 AUGUST 2015 BOMB EXPLOSION IN THAILAND

(Draft Resolution)

Mr S C MNCWABE: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House —

notes that on Monday 17 August 2015, a bomb exploded close to a shrine in the centre of the Thai capital in Bangkok;

further notes that at list 12 people died and more than 20 were injured in the bomb attack;
condemns any act of violence directed against the civilians; and

finally convey condolences and sympathies to the government of Thailand and all other countries who’s citizens were killed or injured during the bomb blast.

There being an objection to the motion, the motion without notice became a notice of a motion.

PASSING AWAY OF TONGAAT COUNCILLOR BRIAN JAYANATHAN

(Draft Resolution)

Mr D W MACPHERSON: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House —

notes the sad passing of the DA public relations, PR, Councillor in eThekwini Brain Jayanathan, who represented the community of Tongaat North of Durban;

further notes that Councillor Jayanathan passed away on Saturday 15 August after a gallant fight against stage four cancer;

acknowledges the significant contribution he made over 19 years in public office to the community of Tongaat, the eThekwini Municipality, the many charitable organisations that worked to uplift the poorest of the poor and the many cancer organisations he worked to raise money for;

further acknowledges that he chronicled his life experiences in a recently published book entitled Breaking Bearers;

finally conveys our heartfelt condolences to his wife Gonam Jayanathan, his three daughters and family and friends of Mr Jayanathan;

recognises that he was a dedicated public representative and his commitment will be solely missed by the City of Durban; and

acknowledges that he was a true hero and a people’s politician. [Applause.]

There being an objection to the motion, the motion without notice became a notice of a motion.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Hon Speaker, we have motions without notice here, can you please recognise us?

The SPEAKER: Hon Rosina?

Ms M R SEMENYA: Hon Speaker, it cannot be right for the EFF to object to every motion ... [Interjections.] ... and deny all of us to send condolences, but stand up here to make condolences. [Interjections.]

Mr A MATHLOKO: Hon Speaker, on a point of order!

The SPEAKER: I think hon ... [Interjections.]

Mr A MATLHOKO: Hon Speaker, we have a right to object! [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: ... Semenya, you should leave the EFF to be who they are. [Applause.] [Laughter.]

ANC-LED GOVERNMENT PREMEDITATED MURDER OF MARIKANA MINEWORKERS

(Draft Resolution)

Mr N S MATIASE: Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House –

notes that on Sunday 16 August marked three years since the ANC-led government connived its capital to mercilessly murder 34 black mineworkers in Marikana, whose only sin was to demand a fair and living wage in return for their hard labour;

further notes that all indications were there that the ANC-led government had premeditated the murder of the workers.

The mortuary vans, the murder of people as they were on the run, all point to the extend to which the ANC has gone in its anti-people and pro-capital governance stance;
acknowledges that three years after the massacre of the workers in Marikana not a single person has taken responsibility, not a single person has been tried, let alone found guilty. The workers were treated and killed as nonhumans, and even in their death, they were treated as objects that do not matter.

further notes that the government of Jacob Zuma and the architect of their death, Cyril Ramaphosa, is oblivious to the pain and suffering the families of the workers are going through.

acknowledges that the children and widows of those killed for demanding a living salary are forced into a life of destitution with no one looking after them;

calls on the government and Lonmin to honour the memories of those who died by granting that sacred demand of the workers. Twelve thousand five hundred monthly salary with immediate effect;

further calls upon Cyril Ramaphosa to use a very little conscience he has left and take a personal concomitant action by resigning from the position he holds. [Interjections.]

Mr B A RADEBE: Speaker, I rise on a point of order. There is the Deputy President of the Republic, not Cyril Ramaphosa himself. [Intejections.]

Mr N S MATIASE: ... he cannot murder 34 people and still be a Deputy President of the country.

The SPEAKER: Hon member, hon member of the EFF.

Mr N S MATIASE: calls on government to make August 16 an annual day of remembrance to remind our nation of the consequences of giving power to the highest bidder;

further calls on government and Lonmin to form a compensation fund to look after the interests of the families of the murdered workers.

Not agreed to

The SPEAKER: Hon member, you must call a member of this House - an hon member. You call members of this House - hon members.

Mr N F SHIVHAMBU: Hon Speaker, on point of order.

The SPEAKER: Hon members, if there are no objections, I put the motion. [Interjections.]

Ms M R SEMENYA: Speaker, the ANC object to the motion. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: So, the motion stands down. [Interjections.] Are there any further motions without notice?

MISSING KWAZULU-NATAL WOMAN FOUND CUT INTO PIECES

(Draft Resolution)

Ms C N MAJEKE: Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

notes that a women was reported missing about two weeks ago on 5 August was found dismembered and buried in a shallow grave, according to the statement released by the police;

further notes that three men aged between 18 and 20, who are allegedly to have committed murder of Thandazile Mpunzi, age 20, from Emanguzi, were also arrested;

commends police for the great work that they have done, after they received a tip-off,

further commends the person who gave the tip-off to the police and encourage all citizens to report to the law agencies any form of crime and violence committed against people;

condemns violence against any citizens and, in particular, against the most vulnerable group in our society;

wishes that the perpetrators of this inhuman, atrocious and barbaric act, face the full might of the law;

sends condolences to the Mpunzi family.

Not agreed to.

Ms E N LOUW: We object, hon Speaker.

CITY OF CAPE TOWN’S HUMAN SETTLEMENT PROJECT NAMED BEST IN SOUTH AFRICA

(Draft Resolution)

Ms T GQADA: Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

notes that the Department of Human Settlements recently named the City of Cape Town’s Community Residential Unit Refurbishment Project in Kewtown, Athlone, the best Community Residential Unit Project in the country;

further notes that the awards were started by the department in 2006 in honour of Mr Govan Mbeki and his vision for the preservation of human dignity for all;

acknowledges that the Kewtown project forms part of the City’s Community Residential Refurbishment Programme which has been implemented across the metro in an effort to improve the living conditions of residents;
also acknowledges that this programme has been the first in South Africa to be implemented on such a large-scale and has comprised the upgrade of more than 7 500 Community Residential Units which are situated in some of the most volatile areas in the city;

further acknowledges that the success of the Kewtown project can be attributed to the establishment of a network of private and public partnerships with more than 50% of the total labour budget being set aside for local labour from the Kewtown community;

congratulates the City of Cape Town for this remarkable accomplishment.

Not agreed to.

Mr M N PAULSEN: Speaker, we object the whole of the Cape flats remains one youth squatter camp. [Interjections.]

ON-POINT REPORT OF PUBLIC PROTECTOR

(Draft Resolution)

Ms S C N SHOPE-SITHOLE: Hon Speaker, based on the Public Protector’s report titled “On the Point of Tenders”, the ANC calls upon the Public Protector to think about possibility of testifying in the On-Point matter that includes Ratanang Family Trust of hon Malema which is said to have unduly benefited from Limpopo Department of Roads and Transport tenders. On-Point report of Public Protector investigated allegations of impropriety and corruption involving tenders in connection with the above companies.

The SPEAKER: If there are no objections I put the motion.

Ms H O MAXON: This is a very cheapest of politics, Speaker. We object.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: But also the irrelevance of that motion, there’s no [Inaudible.] against ... [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, take your seat.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: But at least members must think before they speak here.

The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, please take your seat.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Okay.

RESEARCH PAPER BY THE WITS UNIVERSITY

(Draft Resolution)

Ms H O MAXON: Hon Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

notes the recent research paper by the Wits University’s Society, Work and Development Institute titled “Platinum, poverty and protests: platinum mining and community protests around Rustenburg”;

further notes that this research paper found that platinum mines have become a curse to the communities around these mines, who lost their land to the mines, getting nothing in return but environmental degradation, loss of agricultural and grazing land, and sickness;

acknowledges that this paper comes to the same conclusions the EFF has come to a long time ago, that while platinum mining has benefited mining capital and elites such as the Royal Bafokeng Nation, the wealth has failed to trickle down to the lowest classes, yet it is the lower classes especially the workers, villagers and residents of informal settlements that have emerged on the margins of the mines who bear the brunt of the worst effects of mining;

further acknowledges that service delivery to communities just adjacent to the mining areas has been found to be pathetic, clearly confirming our belief that this idea of mining in this neoliberal epoch has nothing to do with the development of the country, but everything to do with the plunder of our natural resources for the benefit of just a few; and

calls for the nationalisation of mines, banks and other strategic sector of economy because this is the only solution to this crisis.

The SPEAKER: If there are no objections I put the motion.

Ms M R SEMENYA: The ANC object.

REPORT BY THE HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION

(Draft Resolution)

Ms M O MOKAUSE: Hon Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

notes the report by the Human Rights Commission, titled “Complicit in exclusion: South Africa’s failure to guarantee inclusive education for children with disability”;

notes that more than half a million South African children with disabilities are not in school because of lack of infrastructure, resources and dedicated learning environment;

further notes that a concerning and distressing persistent stigma about children with disability and special schools;

acknowledges the Human Rights Commission and other civil society organisation like section 27, for undertaking the research to bring such an important public matter under scrutiny;

calls on all parents of children with disability not to be embarrassed but inform schools so that their children can receive adequate and necessary support;

further calls on Department of Basic Education to move swiftly to gazette norms and standards for funding learners with special needs; and

further calls on the Minister of Basic Education together with the Minister of Public Works to ensure a speedy delivery of necessary and conducive infrastructures to ensure inclusive education.

Agreed to.

DEATH OF 200 PEOPLE IN LIBYA

(Draft Resolution)

Ms N R MOKOTO: Madam Speaker, the ANC moves without notice:

That the House -

notes with sadness the passing of between 150 and 200 people in Libya on Friday, 14 August 2015, during the battle between Islamic State group, Isis, jihadists and local gunmen in Sirte;

further notes that the tension started on Tuesday, 11 August when authorities in the militia-held capital Tripoli, opposed to Libya's internationally recognised government, announced the launch of an operation to retake the city from Isis;

acknowledges that Isis militants and armed residents from the city have been fighting continuously and Sirte was also being hit by air strikes;

further acknowledges that the offensive was being spearheaded by youths and residents from Sirte as well as the force and revolutionary fighters;

believes that the jihadists have been killing people even in their homes allegedly after Isis assassinated an imam, or Muslim prayer leader, from the influential Al-Farjan tribe at the start of the week;

condemns the killing of the ordinary citizens in Sirte battle; and

conveys condolences to the families of those that are affected by this battle.

The SPEAKER: If there are no objections I put the motion.

Mr M N PAULSEN: We object, the ANC collided to have Muammar Gaddafi killed.

MEMBERS STATEMENTS

KUMBA IRON ORE IN UPLIFTING THE COMMUNITIES

(Member’s Statement)

Miss J V BASSON (ANC): Somlomo, into entle iyanconywa mawethu. [Speaker, one should give praise where praise is due.]

In the Northern Cape Province, 66 educators have graduated in different fields of their expertise such as Mathematics, English and the foundation phase, in a joint programme funded by the Sishen Iron Ore Company Community Development Trust, SIOC-cdt, as it is known. [Interjections.]

The ANC welcomes the good results of this development initiative, which is about uplifting the standard of education and capacitating educators with regard to scarce skills and academic qualifications through partnership with the Rhodes University. We congratulate the teachers for their commitment, as they travelled to Grahamstown every school holidays for three years to attend classes.

We would like to wish the next cohort of teachers that have entered into this programme all the best for their next three year-journey that they will embark on. Nilibambe lingatshoni! [Keep it up!] Furthermore the ANC urges all the other mines to follow the example set by Kumba Iron Ore in uplifting the communities in which they operate. [Time expired.]

WESTERN CAPE DEPARTMENTS AUDIT OUTCOMES

(Member’s Statement)

Ms P T VAN DAMME (DA): Madam Speaker, the DA congratulates the DA-run Western Cape government for its outstanding 2014-15 audit outcomes, while 100% of Western Cape departments achieved unqualified audits and 12 out of 13 departments achieved clean audit, the best possible audit outcome. We also congratulate the Western Cape Department of Education for achieving the first-ever clean audit outcome by an education department in South Africa. [Applause.]

This clean audit for the education department recognises that the DA government has spent every rand on quality education and on improving education outcomes. Getting the government spending right is essential in South Africa and at a time when finances are stretched and even President Zuma admits that we are facing an economic crisis.

The DA-led Western Cape’s model of clean and transparent government spending should serve as a template for South Africa, particularly for ANC government provinces which continue to stumble from disclaimer audit to tender scandals and to municipalities in and out of administration.

While the ANC struggles, the DA will continue to govern for the betterment of people’s lives; for the delivery of excellent services and for the transparent of government’s finances. Thank you. [Applause.]

WOMEN ABUSE UNDER ANC GOVERNMENT

(Member’s Statement)

Nksz M S KHAWULA (EFF): Bakithi, into embi iyaphoxa futhi iyadumaza. Siyi-EFF asihambisani nendlela abantu besifazane abahlukumezeka ngayo ikakhulukazi kule lizwe lethu. Abantu besifazane baphila ngaphansi kwengcindezelo enkulu kulo hulumeni kanjalo nabadala yingakho kuze kufike kule nto yokuthi bagcine sebedlwengulwa ezindlini zabo ngenxa yokuthi abanakiwe. Ngikhuluma nje kunogogo walaphaya ku-Ward 55 eNanda ngaphansi kweKhansela uVusi Gcabashe. Lo gogo kungekudala ningahle nizwe kuthiwa indlu yakhe imbulale noma inini.

Akekho umuntu oneminyaka engama-70 onomuzi onje kube kuthiwa sineminyaka engama-21 sakhululeka. Lo gogo uhlala yedwa. Bukani ihlazo lendlu yakhe yangasese. Yingakho ngithi into embi iyadumaza. Laba bantu njengoba ngikhuluma nani nje bahleli ngaphansi kokuthi abanakiwe nhlobo noma bangakhala sekufana nokuthela amanzi emhlane wedada. Ngikhuluma nani bahambe bayokwakhela umuntu osebenza kumasipala oholayo, bamakhela indlu enhle bamshiya lo gogo ... [Ubuwelewele.]

USOMLOMO: Siyabonga, isikhathi sesiphelile.

Nksz M S KHAWULA (EFF): Lo omunye ugogo uphonsekile, ngikhuluma nani nje alukaze lukhulunywe udaba lwakhe. [Ubuwelewele.] Sikhathele uhulumeni onganaki izidingo zabantu lokhu sekufana nokuthi bathela amanzi emhlane wedada. Into embi yiyo le. [Ihlombe.] (Translation in isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Ms M S KHAWULA (EFF): People, a bad thing is disappointing and embarrassing. As the EFF members we are not happy with the way the women are being abused especially here in our country. In this government, women and old people, live under oppression that is why they are even raped inside their houses because they are not taken care of. There is an old lady from ward 55 at Inanda under councilor Vusi Gcabashe, as we speak. I would not be surprised if we were to hear that her house has collapsed and killed her anytime from now.

There is no person in her 70s with such a house yet it is said we have been liberated for 21 years. This old lady lives all by herself. Look at her toilet, which is a disgrace. This is the reason why I say that something bad is a shame. These people are under oppression as we speak because even if they were to complain it would be pointless. They built a house for a person who is employed at the municipality and getting paid, they built a beautiful house for him or her and left out this old lady ... [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON: Thank you, your time has expired.

Ms M S KHAWULA (EFF): This other old lady fell, her issue was never discussed up until today. [Interjections.] We have had enough of the government that does not take care of the people’s needs, this is pointless. This is bad. [Applause.]]

CONGRATULATIONS TO SAPS IN PAARL FOR ARRESTING ARMED ROBBERS

(Member’s Statement)

Mnr F BEUKMAN (ANC): Speaker, die ANC verwelkom die flink optrede deur lede verbonde aan die Suid-Afrikaanse Polisiediens, SAPD, in die Paarl wat op Dinsdag, 11 Augustus 2015 na ’n gewapende rooftog by ’n kuierplek in die Paarl se middedorp, Wes-Kaap, sewe verdagtes na ’n wilde jaagtog gearresteer het. Tydens die jaagtog is etlike skote op lede van die SAPD afgevuur. Daar is op drie vuurwapens asook R108 000 kontant wat tydens die rooftog gesteel is, beslag gelê. Die twee lede van die publiek wat tydens die rooftog beseer is, word ’n spoedige herstel toegewens.

Snelle en spoedige optrede deur lede van die SAPD Paarl is ’n goeie voorbeeld van hoe ernstige misdaad in ons gemeenskappe hokgeslaan kan word, en die beamptes en hul bevelvoerder moet gelukgewens word met die uitstaande diens aan die Paarl se gemeenskap. Die voorval bevestig die gevaarlike toestande waaronder SAPD lede op ’n daaglikse basis moet werk, en daarom moet die gemeenskap die nodige ondersteuning aan hul bied. Die harde werk en opoffering van SAPD lede op grondvlak om ernstige misdaad te beveg, verdien die ondersteuning van alle lede van die Nasionale Vergadering. Baie dankie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaaans Member’s Statement follows.)

[Mr F BEUKMAN (ANC): Speaker, the ANC welcomes the swift action by members of the SA Police Service, SAPS, in Paarl, who on Tuesday, 11 August 2015, after an armed robbery at a popular retreat in the town centre of Paarl in the Western Cape, arrested seven suspects after a wild chase. During the chase a number of shots were fired at members of the SAPS. Three firearms as well as R108 000 in cash stolen during the robbery, were confiscated. We wish the two members of the public who were injured during the robbery a speedy recovery.

The speedy and prompt action by the members of the SAPS of Paarl is a good example of how we can combat serious crime in our communities. The officers and their commanding officer must be congratulated with the excellent service to the community in Paarl. The incident confirms the dangerous conditions under which SAPS members have to work on a daily basis, and the community must therefore give them the necessary support. The hard work and sacrifice of some SAPS members at grass-roots level to fight serious crime, deserve the support of all members of the National Assembly. Thank you very much. [Applause]]

ABUSE OF LEADERSHIP RESPONSIBILITIES BY COMMUNITY LEADERS

(Member’s Statement)

Mr M HLENGWA (IFP): Madam Speaker, section 19 of the South African Constitution states that every citizen is free to make political choices which include a right to a political party, to participate in activities of or recruit members for a political party and to campaign for a political party or course. We are all bound by these prescripts, which is the duty of every leader and citizen to protect these rights and freedom.

It is therefore unfortunate and regrettable that Inkosi Sazi Ndwalane of Ndwalane Traditional Authority in the Ugu District was quoted in the Eyethu Ugu of 12 August 2015 to have said: “In my area, we all support the ANC. I expel izinduna and convey my directives to the MEC of Cogta indicating that I’ve expelled a certain induna who does not support a ruling party.”

He has further said that, in his area of jurisdiction he will not allow members to belong to any other political party but the ANC. Such decrees are inflammatory and are contrary to the dictates of the Constitution. Therefore, we can’t and must not allow the leaders of the communities to create no-go areas. It will serve the ANC well to distance itself from such statements, because such decree by the Inkosi Ndwalane is the worst kind of abuse of the leadership responsibilities which he carries.

Moreover, it is an insult to the institution of traditional leadership and to governance. It also compromises the said institutions. As we approach the 2016 local government elections, we have to create conducive environment for political parties and persons to organise and mobilise themselves as they deem fit wherever they may be.

Every effort must be made to ensure that we have elections that are free and fair, and free from fear. [Time expired.] Thank you.

INTRODUCTION OF MANDARIN TO SOUTH AFRICAN PUBLIC SCHOOLS

(Member’s Statement)

Mr M C MABIKA (NFP): Hon Speaker, the NFP has taken notice of the government’s notice that Mandarin will be introduced in all the South African public schools in January 2016, which we reject as the NFP. The question we ask is: Who stand to benefit from introducing Mandarin in our school’s curriculum? Will it be a school child who grows up in the rural areas of KwaZulu-Natal or perhaps the child growing up in the informal settlement in Khayelitsha?

Will it benefit a child of a farm labourer in the Free State or a child who is being educated under a tree in the Eastern Cape? The answer is no, hon Speaker! Learning Mandarin will not benefit these children. It will benefit China. We are also asking the question: Why is the government not showing the same enthusiasm to increase our efficiency in Maths and Science?

These are two subjects that can add value to the education of our children. The answer is simple. It is not in the interest of China to find the African child capable of becoming an engineer or a doctor. China only needs to get workers from Africa. The introduction of Mandarin is nothing more than the ANC bowing to the economic imperial masters from the East; paving the way for a new wave of communism which will add more to equip the future generation to understand the instructions of their new economic masters. [Time Expired.] Thank you.

EFF SRC PRESIDENT SUSPENDED FOR SOLICITING BRIBE

(Member’s Statement)

Mr B T BONGO (ANC): Hon Speaker, it is clear that the EFF-led SRC at the Vaal University of Technology, VUT, is in tatters. This follows the suspension of the VUT SRC president who is a member of the EFF for soliciting a bribe from a potential service provider to the tune of R300 000, despite the denial by some members of the House.

This clearly confirms that the EFF is a fly-by-night party. We call upon SASCO and ANCYL members ... [Interjections.]

Ms H O MAXOM: Speaker, I’m rising on a point of order.

Mr B T BONGO (ANC): ... to take their rightful places in leading students. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: What’s your point of order, hon member? Hon member, just wait and let me listen to the point of order.

Ms H O MAXON: The hon member is misleading the House. There is no SRC president from the EFF who has been suspended. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: No, hon member, that’s not a point of order. Please take your seat. [Interjections.]

Ms H O MAXON: It is, Speaker, because he is misleading the House. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Please take your seat and let the other hon member ... [Interjections.]

Ms H O MAXON: He must not play cheap politics here. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Just finish off, hon member.

Mr B T BONGO: We would like to thank the university council and management for suspending ... [Interjections.]

Mr M N PAULSEN: Speaker! [Interjections.]

Mr B T BONGO: ... Mr Troy Mathebula ... [Interjections.]

Mr M N PAULSEN: Point of order, Speaker. [Interjections.]

Mr B T BONGO: ... pending an investigation. [Interjections.]

Mr M N PAULSEN: Speaker, point of order! [Interjections.]

Mr B T BONGO: We would like to remind the EFF once more ... [Interjections.]

Mr M N PAULSEN: Point of order, Speaker.

Mr B T BONGO: ... that the institutions of higher learning are not a platform for looting and corruption. Thank you. [Applause.]

The SPEAKER: What is the point order, hon member?

Mr M N PAULSEN: Speaker, the point of order is: Is it parliamentary for the ANC to display such laziness by giving us the same speech they gave us last week?

The SPEAKER: The ACDP? [Interjections.]

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: But, Speaker, the ... [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, I have not recognised you. [Interjections.]

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: On a point of order, because ... [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: No, hon Shivambu. [Interjections.]

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ... there is material misrepresentation of what is happening in VUT. The ANC lost elections there ... [Inaudible.]

The SPEAKER: A matter of your difference with the ANC ... [Inaudible.]

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: But he can’t stand here to tell lies and expect Ministers to respond to lies. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: No, hon Shivambu, please take your seat.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: We defeated you in VUT, we will defeat you in Zululand, we will defeat you in TUT and everywhere else where there’s going to be SRC elections this year.

The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, take your seat.

The SPEAKER: The ACDP?

Ms H O MAXON: Speaker!

The SPEAKER: Hon Maxon, please take your seat.

Ms H O MAXON: On a point of order, Speaker.

The SPEAKER: What’s the point of order?

Ms H O MAXON: Can we be given a chance when the Ministers are responding just to clarify that hon member who is misleading the House here?

The SPEAKER: You must become a Minister first then you can be able to give a response.

PROTECTION OF FARMERS TO SECURE AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTION FOR FUTURE PURPOSES

(Member’s Statement)

Rev K R J MESHOE (ACDP): According to the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organisation, the world’s population will increase by one-third between now and 2050. If current income and consumption growth trends continue, the Food and Agriculture Organisation estimates that agricultural production will have to show an increase of 60% by 2050 to satisfy the expected demand for food. Even though there have been calls for increase of agricultural production, the number of commercial farms in South Africa is decreasing annually which is of great concern to the ACDP especially when food production needs to be intensified and be expanded in all directions. Because of the concern for their safety and welfare and out of love they have for South Africa, farmers recently met outside Ventersdorp near N1 to pray for God’s intervention in farm murders, stock theft and corruption.

We believe farmers who ensure that there is food on our tables should be supported and that much more should be done to ensure their protection. AfriForum reported in July that there had been a rise in farm attacks since 1990 with approximately 23% of those in 2015 ending in death. The House must find ways to reverse this unacceptable targeting of farmers and farmworkers and find ways to guarantee food security in South Africa. Thank you.

GIRL CHILD QUALIFY TO PLAY IN THE UNDER 17 NATIONAL TEAM

(Member’s Statement)

Me A ABRAHAMS (ANC): Agb Voorsitter, die ANC wil van die geleentheid gebruik maak om vir Deverney Rhodes van Eldorado Park geluk te wens op haar eerbare kwalifikasie deur gekies te word vir die onder-17 nasionale sokkerspan. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Ms A ABRAHAMS (ANC): Hon Chairperson, the ANC would like to take this opportunity to congratulate Deverney Rhodes of Eldorado Park for honourably qualifying to be selected for the under-17 national soccer team.]

Though Deverney is but only 13 years old, she started playing soccer at the tender age of 8. As a young girl she played for a boys team and at the age of 9 she then joined a girls team where she was selected to play for the under 10 team in her first soccer tournament where she scored all the goals and won the tournament. She started playing the position of striker, and soon leftwing, midfield and even goalkeeper. In her short soccer career she already boasts 13 gold medals, 4 silver and 7 bronze. She also participated in the following tournaments, the Eldorado Park Local Football Association, Safa Johannesburg and Safa Gauteng Province tournaments respectively. Deverney currently plays for the HPC Basetsana Junior soccer team.

During July 2015 she played in the Mandela Cup and was then selected to play for the South Africa Under 17 Girls team. Deverney is a learner at the Tuks Sport High School in Pretoria. This school forms part of the High Performance Centre at the University of Pretoria, which shares the vision of offering a unique sporting and learning atmosphere for their students. This is a unique opportunity for Deverney to attend this school as it caters for learners to perform in an environment that allows them to perform at their peak as the school creates optimal training opportunities without compromising the student’s academic development. The ANC wishes Deverney well on her soccer journey ... [Time expired.]

VICTIMISATION, HARASSMENT AND STIGMATISATION OF LGBTs

(Member’s Statement)

Mr Z N MBHELE (DA): Madam Speaker, in the past two weeks, two media stories have highlighted the vulnerability of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender teenagers to victimisation, harassment and stigmatisation, sometimes with tragically fateful consequences.

The first story is that of 16-year-old Selby Ndlovu from eMangweni in Mpumalanga who recently attempted suicide after enduring years of taunting and humiliation which culminated in him being covered with red paint during a recent bullying incident. Selby Ndlovu at least has the support of his family in the face of more prejudice elements in his community.

In the second story, an 18-year-old lesbian woman from Bethlehem in the Free State was not as fortunate when her mother’s angry and violent reaction to discovering her daughter’s sexuality led to the young woman committing suicide.

This is but one of many LGBT teens suicide stories, most of which we don’t hear about. Many LGBT youth face a tougher time in building their self-esteem than their heterosexual and cisgender peers as they struggle to find self-acceptance in a hostile and often intolerant world, with research showing that they are three to four times more likely to attempt suicide which stems from the increased risk to feelings of isolation and rejection.

The DA’s caring vision for strong supportive families which build up and nurture those who belong in them, calls on us to ensure that communities adhere to the value of ubuntu and overcome the bigger tree that leads to LGBT teen suicide. I thank you. [Applause.]

MORE MEMBERS JOINING ANC FROM IFP

(Member’s Statement)

Nkk P BHENGU (ANC): Ngiyabonga Sekela Solomo, ngesonto lomhla ziyi-09 kuNcwaba wezi-2015 ngosuku lomama, umbutho kaKhongolose kade unomcimbi wokwemukela amalungu angamakhulu amabili nanhlanu amasha aphuma kwiNkatha Freedom Party, ewadini lesithupha endaweni yaseMashunka KwaZulu-Natali. [Ubuwelewele.]

Abayikhulu bajoyina enyangeni eyodwa nje vo endaweni yaseMabizela ngenyanga ephelile. Laba ngabantu abaphuma kwi-VD eyodwa. Kulamalungu kukhona nabaseNdlunkulu yaseMachunwini. Abantu baseMsinga sebekubonile ukukhanya sebekhathele ukuxhashazwa ngamaphasela okudla abanikwa wona ngenhloso yokuheha amavoti ngumasipala ophethwe yiNkatha kanye nokuqashwa ngokwenzelela, kuqashwa izintombi nezihlobo zamakhansela nguMasipala waseMsinga. [Ubuwelewele.]

Ukhongolose uzolokhu uwemukele njalo amalungu amasha aphuma nakwezinye izinhlangano ngoba uKhongolose yiwona mbutho kuphela okwazile ukushintsha izimpilo zabantu. Yingakho sebelaxaza Inkatha Freedom Party, ngoba ibibacindezele bengaboni ukukhanya, kepha intuthuko sebeyibona ngamehlo ezindaweni zabo, ngenxa yokuzibonakalisa kukaHulumeni oholwa nguKhongolose, i-ANC, ngokufakwa kukagesi, imigwaqo, amanzi, nezindlu zangasese endaweni yaseMsinga. Siyaqhuba. [Ihlombe.] (Translation in isiZulu speech follows.)

[Ms P BHENGU (ANC): Thank you Chairperson, during the week of the 9th of August 2016 on women’s day, the ANC had a ceremony to welcome 205 new members from Inkatha Freedom Party, from ward six at Mashunka in KwaZulu-Natal. [Interjections.]

100 members from Mabizela joined in only one month, last month. These people are all from the same VD. Among these members, there are also those from the Machunwini royal house. The people of Msinga have seen the light, they are now tired of being used by being given food parcels by the Inkatha-led municipality in order for them to vote for the party. There’s no parity in terms of employment, Msinga Municipality only employs the girlfriends and relatives of the councilors. [Interjections.]

The ANC will continue to welcome new members from other partiers because the ANC is the only party that is able to change the people’s lives. That is the reason why they left Inkatha Freedom Party because it oppressed them and they could not see the light, but they now see the development in their areas because of the work done by the ANC-led government, they now have electricity, roads, water and toilets at Msinga. We are moving forward. [Applause.]]

ABUSE AND EXPLOITATION OF FARMWORKERS BY EMPLOYERS

(Member’s Statement)

Mr M A PLOUAMMA (AgangSA): Hon Speaker, AgangSA is very concerned with the abuse and exploitation of farmworkers by their employers. AgangSA has decided to have a night vigil on 26 October, and on 27 October 2015 to march to the Union Building. We think that the time has come for this government to insist that farmers must give shares to their farmworkers. This is the only way to restore the dignity of farmworkers. If urgent steps are not taken, this sector has a potential of reducing our democracy into a farce. I thank you.

CO-OPERATIVES DEVELOPMENT LAUNCHED IN WARD 22

(Member’s Statement)

Ms R BHENGU (ANC): Hon Speaker, the ANC commends hon. Minister Bathabile Dlamini for launching, in Ward 22 in Rustenburg - her constituency area, a co-operatives development model adopted by the Portfolio Committee on Small Business Development in 2014.

The model seeks to reduce dependency of poor families on government social grants. It creates a permanent exit of poor families from the social grant and indigent registers of municipalities. Grant beneficiaries are organised into co-operatives that supply goods and services to the Department of Social Development, thereby making them self sufficient and self reliant. The ANC is hard at work in reducing poverty and building a developmental state. I thank you.

CHANGE OF APPROACH IN MINING INDUSTRY OVERDUE

(Member’s Statement)

Mr J R B LORIMER (DA): Madam Speaker, it’s all very well for the Minister of Mineral Resources to convene talks with the industry on stemming job losses. But those talks will be a waste of time, unless this government realises that it has to change its approach to the mining industry. And “change” doesn’t mean ANC-style transformation, which is an amorphous term that can mean anything the ANC wants it to mean, depending on the audience. It means the government has to start listening to the industry and providing assurances that South Africa is a good place to invest money in mining. That means, if the Minister is using the current talks to bludgeon the industry into maintaining current employment levels, regardless of losses with the threat that the mines will lose their mining licences if they don’t, he will reach a critical point. That critical point, some say, has already come. It will be when companies cease co-operating and quietly start to withdraw their investments and go elsewhere. Then the jobs already lost will be a stream as to a torrent.

The Minister must choose: either start to co-operate and build an industry that will last and where jobs will be assured, or continue on the downward trend that ends in an unemployment wasteland. [Applause.]

Ms A STEYN: On a point of order, Madam Speaker. Sorry, Madam Speaker, I didn’t want to break into the person’s speaking time, but a member of the EFF, the hon Shivambu, just walked past the person speaking and the direct line of the speaker while he was speaking. I just want to say to them that it is not good to do that. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: This is actually something, hon Shivambu, we avoid doing: When someone is on the floor, we avoid passing so as to prevent breaking the vision of those who are listening and watching from outside. So, could you bear that in mind, including when an EFF member is speaking. You allow them to finish and then only do you pass that line of vision.

ANC proud of Mr Qwabe’s commitment

(Member’s Statement)

Mr F ADAMS (ANC): Hon Speaker, in 2007 Mr Ntokozo Qwabe did not have money to pay his study fees and was forced to drop out of the University of KwaZulu-Natal where he was pursuing a law degree. But through sheer determination he went on to work as a cashier, earning R1 800 per month and saving to continue his studies.

This determination saw Mr Qwabe eventually earn 17 commendations from the dean of his faculty and 34 distinctions, and he obtained his law degree summa cum laude. These achievements earned him a Mandela Rhodes Scholarship that made it possible for him to continue his studies, and this month he graduated with a Master’s degree in Public Law from Oxford University, England.

The ANC is delighted to hear that 24-year-old Mr Qwabe has decided that he will complete his second Master’s in Public Policy at Oxford. We are even more proud that during his time at the university, he showed the spirit of South African activism when he started an organisation to help rural students integrate into university life.

We wish Mr Qwabe well with his studies and with his ongoing efforts to assist other disadvantaged students to also achieve and improve their lives through education. I thank you. [Applause.]

Co-operatives Development Model launched in Ward 22

(Minister’s Response)

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Speaker, I would like to thank the hon Bhengu, firstly, for attending the launch and giving the line of March. We want to say that these co-operatives are going to be different, because there is going to be training on governance and marketing. We are also going to incubate all co-operatives for a full year, so that they can stand on their own feet.

We are going to support them even if other retailers make their things cheaper. We are going to keep supporting them, because that is how you sustain co-operatives. What is important is that we are in the process of taking families out of the cycle of poverty. The training of 120 co-operatives is starting very soon. Ninety co-operatives are going to be buying vegetables and 137 co-operatives will be sewing school uniforms. I thank you. [Applause.]

EFF UNIVERSITY SRC President suspended

MR QWABE CONGRATULATED ON EDUCATIONAL ACHIEVEMENTS

(Minister’s Response)

Firstly, let me take this opportunity to agree with the hon Bongo ... [Interjections.] ... and congratulate the Vaal University of Technology, VUT, on its decisive action against corruption. [Interjections.] I would like to urge the university to get to the bottom of this matter and deal with the culprits irrespective of their party-political affiliation. [Interjections.]

I wish to take this opportunity also to join other South Africans and members in congratulating Mr Qwabe on his educational achievements.

Sifuna ukuthi kuye uGumede, isifundo asifundise sona ukuthi imfundo ayipheli, imfundo ayiqedwa, uma usaphila kufanele uziqhube uma usenesikhathi nokuthi ithemba alilahlwa nokuthi uma uwile namhlanje, ungalali unomphelo, kepha uvuke, uvuke uzithathe, uqhubekele phambili. Siyambongela. [Ihlombe] (Translation in isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[We want to say to Gumede, he has given us a lesson that education is never enough, you can never be over educated, if you still alive you must carry on with studying, you must never give up and if you fall today, do not lye on the ground forever but stand up and move forward. We are happy for him. [Applause.]]

Mr N SINGH: Hon Speaker, I rise on a point of order. We are finding it extremely difficult to hear the replies of Ministers and even the statements that members of all parties have been putting before this House. I have constantly gestured to my colleagues behind me to try to refrain from making the kind of noise that they have been making, but it seems that I have no choice but to bring this to your attention, hon Speaker. Thank you. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Thank you, hon Singh. Hon members, may I appeal to you that we all behave ourselves decently so that everybody is able to participate, to hear and to know what’s going on. I appeal to you, hon members, to be considerate of other hon members.

DISCRIMINATION AGAINST LGBT SECTOR

(Minister’s Response)

The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Speaker, it must be made very clear that discrimination against the LGBT sector – the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender sector - is like any other form of discrimination. It’s no different from racial discrimination, gender discrimination, or any form of discrimination which, fortunately, in our country has been abolished by the Constitution.

That’s why, when the matter is raised at the African Union, the AU, or even at the United Nations, South Africa stands very firm, because this matter is embedded in our Constitution.

I want to appeal to members here that we still need to work very hard for all citizens to be aware of this fact: that you don’t discriminate against someone because they look different from you. This seems to be the central issue: that someone who looks different from you is not supposed to exist because everyone else must look like you. I believe racial discrimination is also based on that. Fortunately, in the SA National Aids Council, Sanac, the LGBT sector is very well represented. We urge everybody to support Sanac because that is where they get their support and strength, and that’s where we prove our acceptance of them.

There is going to be a Gay Pride Parade in Gauteng in September, and I call on all members of this House to show their support of all such events because they are exerting their humanity and we must all show, as leaders, that we do support them. Thank you very much.

DEVERNEY RHODES QUALIFIES TO PLAY IN UNDER 17 NATIONAL GIRLS SOCCER TEAM

(Minister’s Response)

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Speaker, following on from what the hon member said, I want to state that the work done by Deverney Rhodes as a young woman is a reflection of what is happening in South Africa today. We have millions of young women who participate in sports and do very well, but women participating in sport in South Africa do not enjoy the privilege of turning professional.

I want to say to corporate South Africa that it must also participate in the project of making women sport in South Africa professional. Support netball, hockey and all other sporting codes, as we do as Sport and Recreation. Our netball girls are currently returning from Australia. They are now ranked number five and number one in the African continent ... {Applause.] ... without any support. There are millions of young girls out there who want to make it and who want to participate in sports. Corporate South Africa, participate and work with us to make it happen for young girls and many other girls in our country who want to succeed through sports. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

MANDARIN IN SOUTH AFRICAN SCHOOLS

(Minister’s Response)

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon Speaker, I would like to thank the member of the NFP for bringing this matter to our attention. It gives me an opportunity to clarify the issue of Mandarin.

With regard to Mandarin itself, I want to clarify that the curriculum provides that it is compulsory for every learner in school to study two official languages. One is the language of learning and teaching, which is your first or home language; and the second is a first additional language. Every learner is obliged to study those two languages which are fundamental and compulsory. Thereafter, you have a second additional language which includes Greek, Portuguese, Italian, Mandarin ... [Inaudible.]

Mr M S MABIKA: On a point of order: I’m not a member of the EFF.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon Speaker, I said NFP not EFF. I think he’s embarrassed by the response that he is receiving because of the distortion he has created here, but be that as it may, what does happen is that learners are basically able to utilise or study a further language such as French, Greek, Mandarin or anything else.

With regard to Mandarin itself, in order for it to be taught as a second additional language, it has to be gazetted. A request was received, as it often is received either from a head of state of another country or an ambassador, that says, will you introduce this as a further additional language in which event we will provide the support? Given our bilateral relations, the importance of China in the global economy and the resident Chinese people within the country, there was no reason for us to refuse that. So, schools were alerted to the fact that Mandarin is now, amongst other additional languages, an additional language that a school can teach optionally. In other words, it’s not imposed on a single learner.

Furthermore, what we can celebrate is the fact that with effect from next year, every child in every school that does not teach an indigenous African language will be obliged to learn an indigenous African language. This takes place with effect from next year. [Applause.] The year thereafter it will be Grades 1 and 2, and the year thereafter Grades 1, 2 and 3. Now that is a positive sentiment, and it is compulsory because that competency is critical in order that we build a cohesive society. The issue of Mandarin is being distorted for political gain and I certainly think the nation must be quite aware of the fact that the suggestion is indeed a distortion.

Secondly, with regard to the hon member who spoke about the importance of professional development ... [Inaudible.]

Mr M WATERS: Speaker, I rise on Rule 105 (6) which limits the response time by Ministers and Deputy Ministers to two minutes in total.

The SPEAKER: I am watching the clock.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon Speaker, it is amazing that whenever we try to clarify and explain to the nation the truth of a matter it is the DA that stands up and opposes. Now, let me give you an example of the fact where the DA says that only the Western Cape has received an unqualified audit. We commend ... [Time expired.] [Applause.]

SOUTH AFRICAN MINING COMPANIES COMPLIANCE WITH LICENCE CONDITIONS

(Minister’s Response)

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Hon Speaker, thank you very much for this opportunity. The Minister of Mineral Resources will continue to act responsibly in ensuring that mining companies comply with their licence conditions. That also includes the issue where job losses are a problem. The laws of the country, the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act, MPRDA, and the Labour Relations Act provide that there are certain steps that companies must take before they embark on retrenchments. As we did in previous cases, we are going to ensure that we intervene to the extent that companies ignore this.

The Mining Industry Growth Development and Employment Task Team, Migdett, was formed as a tripartite body to ensure that we minimise job losses in the country. Such interventions have been very successful in the past where we were able, as in the case of Anglo American Platinum, Angloplats, for instance, to reduce the intended retrenchments to a minimum. We are going to continue doing that. The grandstanding by the DA here is really just cheap talk, and they obviously have no responsibilities here.

When it comes to investments, the South African mining industry has continued to get investments. We informed you a few days ago that we have major investments in the country. For instance, there is a new zinc mine worth R6 billion of which phase one will be opening, and it’s going to continue. We have a huge platinum mine in Mokopane that is opening. We have a new mine in the Waterberg that is opening. The figures invested are huge.

Since 1994 when this government took over up till mow, South Africa has moved from 800 mines to 1 700 mines and quarries in the country. This is investment, ladies and gentlemen. Having said that, I want to say that we recognise that current commodity prices have decreased. However, not all commodities have decreased. We mine 53 commodities in the country and some are doing very well. The ones that are doing badly for instance, are platinum, coal, iron ore and you can look at gold to a certain extent. Even some smaller companies ... [Time expired.] [Applause.]

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF AD HOC COMMITTEE ON REPORT OF MINISTER OF POLICE IN REPLY TO RECOMMENDATIONS OF AD HOC COMMITTEE ON REPORT BY THE PRESIDENT REGARDING SECURITY UPGRADES AT NKANDLA PRIVATE RESIDENCE OF THE PRESIDENT

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Deputy Speaker.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon member.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: This morning, the EFF wrote a letter to the Speaker to remind her of Rule 67 that says that no member shall refer to any matter on which a judicial decision is pending. And that is right with section 165(3) of the Constitution, which says that no person or organ of state may interfere with the functioning of the courts. As a matter of fact, all the issues that are going to be discussed here - the ad hoc committee, the Nkandla report - are now before a court of law, the Constitutional Court.

You know that the Constitutional Court has a case CCT143/15, which was opened against this Parliament and against the President, on the President’s refusal to pay the money, as directed by the Public Protector.

So, we want to say that the continuation of this debate will be in violation of the Constitution, but also in violation of the Rules of the National Assembly. We therefore stand to say that we must not go ahead with the next item on the agenda of Parliament, because it will be in violation of the basic statues that guide how Parliament and the country work, in terms of the Constitution.

So, that is our strongest and firm plea, that we can’t discuss an issue that a court is busy entertaining and is going to take a decision on. Thank you very much.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, my attention has been drawn to a response by the Speaker to you in which the Speaker points out amongst others, and I think I would like to read the concluding parts of this letter to you, sir:

I am informed that the matter currently before the Constitutional Court involves a challenge by the EFF against one, the President of the Republic and his alleged failure to implement the remedial actions of the Public Protector, two, Parliament for its alleged failure to hold the President to account in terms of section 552 of the Constitution.

The report of the ad hoc committee on the report of the Minister of Police in reply to recommendations of the ad hoc committee on the report by the President, regarding security upgrades at Nkandla private residence does not appear to be a pending judicial decision and is consequently not sub judice. The report’s consideration will therefore go ahead as agreed.

This is the response of the Speaker to your letter, which you received. We have received no indication of a different condition, sir.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Hon Deputy Speaker, as a matter of fact, the Speaker has just sent the letter now, while we were here. I can tell you that her observations and what she claims is the case here is not true ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ... because part of the contents of the court case, which was opened by the EFF ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ... speaks about the ad hoc committee and that it was not supposed to be established in the first place.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: It was not supposed to happen because there is no legal instrument or institution ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ... that establishes that ad hoc committee.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: So, it will be wrong for Parliament ...

The Deputy Speaker: Yes.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ... to go ahead and discuss this issue. We have already said, in the detail, in the court papers of the Constitutional Court in Braamfontein that these things are illegal.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Why do you want to insist on going ahead with a discussion that is already before a Constitutional Court, which all of us carry an obligation to respect? So, we plead with you, ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ... Deputy Speaker, that the next item on the agenda today should not be discussed, because a court decision is impending.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay.

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Deputy Speaker, I just want to bring to the attention of this august House that there is no judicial decision taken on this matter or pending. So, we heard a rumour that there is a case open, regarding this issue, but there is nothing. So, we will continue to debate this matter in this House. Thank you. [Applause.]

Ms H O MAXON: Order, Speaker.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon member.

Ms H O MAXON: Deputy Speaker!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes.

Ms H O MAXON: Rule 68 - if I can read to the hon member there - says that no member shall refer to any matter on which a judicial decision is pending. ... is pending, not taken.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member.

Ms H O MAXON: Maybe we should workshop the ANC members who do not know their Rules.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member.

Ms H O MAXON: It is Rule 68.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Read the rest of it, hon member.

Ms H O MAXON: Rule 67, matters sub judice. No member shall refer to any matter on which a judicial decision is pending. Full stop.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Go ahead.

Ms H O MAXON: No, it ends there. It is Rule 67. It is here.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, let me point out. There is a difference between your interpretation of what’s happening and the advice Parliament has on the matter and therefore, as suggested in the letter that you have received, the matter stands, sir. We will proceed with the agreement here.

Mr N S MATIASE: Deputy Speaker.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Point of order.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes.

Mr N S MATIASE: Deputy Speaker, I rise on a point of order: In terms of established precedents of this House and generally, in terms of the jurisprudents and the legal system of this country, from which, at times, we are called upon to uphold the rule of law, including the Rules of this House, we would want to draw your attention to several occasions. Whenever opposition parties would insist that certain matters, which are before the court should be debated, the presiding officers and the ruling party would always refer us to the sub judice matter. There are various points of reference we can draw the Deputy Speaker’s attention to.

On 24 June 2012, on a matter between the former Leader of the Opposition, Lindiwe Mazibuko, and the Speaker, regarding Mluli, Lindiwe Mazibuko insisted that the matter should be discussed, but the former Speaker, hon Max Sisulu, ruled that the matter was sub judice and the matter could not be sustain.

Very recently, in 2014, the Minister of Communication, Faith Muthambi, refused to reply to a question in this House about the Public Protector ruling on her remedial measures, regarding the SABC and Hlaudi Motsoeneng. That matter was not replied to on the basis of the sub judice matter.

You can quote and quote various decisions, where presiding officers ruled over such matters. We call upon you to be consistent and apply the established precedents of this House to the fullest. We feel that this matter should not stand and should not be debated, because it is before the courts.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, I agree with the ruling that has been made by the Speaker. I have said many times from this platform and in the programming committee meetings that the sub judice rule no longer exists in the South African legal lexicon. There have been several courts rulings, most noteworthy, the Midi Television case, where it is very clear that in the post constitutional environment, it no longer applies.

More recently, Deputy Chief Justice Dikgang Moseneke, in a legal paper and a speech delivered indicated that the sub judice rule is now a matter of the past that no longer applies in the South African legal lexicon.

I think it is also important, as I have on several occasions, to bring to your attention the previous rulings on this matter. In this regard, it’s the Hansard from the second session of the Second Parliament in 1998, which says very clearly that the Speaker at the time, Frene Ginwala, said that reference to cases in the courts and to the facts in the cases would not be a violation of the sub judice rule, and that is in column 208.

So, I would submit to you that the sub judice rule cannot be used to suppress any debate in this House. It cannot be right that I can walk out of the precinct of Parliament and discuss this matter at the Cape Town Press Club or at my rotary club, but I cannot discuss it here in the halls of the National Assembly, where I enjoy freedom of speech. So I would submit to you that this rule does not apply.

However, I do want to add a caveat. I agree wholeheartedly with the hon member of the EFF that this rule is being applied inconsistently. It’s very convenient to apply the rule when it can be used to suppress the opposition, as we saw last week with the Al-Bashir matter, which we contended is not sub judice, and with the matter today when it suits the presiding officer to do so.

So, I would ask that we have a conclusive ruling on this matter, because it is going to bedevil us the whole way, during the Fifth Parliament. It is the DA’s submission that this matter must continue and that the sub judice rule does not apply in the halls of the South African Parliament. [Applause.]

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Deputy Speaker, I am sure that the Chief Whip, of the Opposition is educated enough to know that a speech of a judge does not constitute law, and it does not constitute precedence. Judges can give any speech anywhere else and everything else; there is no ruling of Deputy Chief Justice Dikgang Moseneke that say that the sub judice rule does not apply.

As far as we are concerned, there are lots of issues that came here in Parliament and were suppressed on the basis of the sub judice rule. Why now, the issue is before the court of law. Why do you want to insist on discussing an issue, which must be dealt with by the Constitutional Court?

The Constitution itself says that no organ of state, which includes Parliament, must interfere with the operations of the court. Why would we willingly as Parliament, which is supposed to uphold the law, violate that sacrosanct constitutional clause which says that we should not interfere with the operations of the courts? Let us allow the court to give a directive on when the man is going to pay back the money; and not insist on discussing the issue which is before the court of law.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: On a point of order, Deputy Speaker, on a point of order!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, there was a point of order raised here before you, Sir. Can you allow her to speak first? She graciously asked you to speak first, do the same?

The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. No, I didn’t graciously ask him. He was before me, and so I do respect queues and that’s why I said you should look to him. However, Deputy Speaker, I do think it would assist the House if the Presiding Officers, the presidium were to get a proper opinion on this matter so that all the Chief Whips are made aware of it.

I think related to this is the fact that the matter of a decision pending is perhaps not properly understood. The fact of submitting a complaint to a court does not mean the matter is before the court in law. So, I don’t think there is a sub judice at this moment, however, I do think it would help Parliament if a proper opinion could be found. There is no decision pending. There has been no hearing, no heads of argument have been presented, submission has been made indeed, as we are told, but there is no judicial decision pending.

The matter has not been heard, so I think if an opinion could be sought so that all parties are at same page in understanding this matter. If indeed the rule offence the Constitution, let us remove it from the Rulebook. Thank you.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, I suggest that on the basis of the discussions we have just had now; we proceed on the understanding that we will comeback to the House; that the Speaker in her advice to the EFF has suggested that the question, even before the court, is not what we are discussing here. There is relatedness, but that is not the question before the court and her view, as I understand it, is that we should therefore proceed as is articulated here.

Prince M G BUTHELEZI: Hon Deputy Speaker, I would like to suggest with due respect to the hon members that, if the Speaker is wrong, let them take her to court but in the meantime lets proceed. [Applause.] [Laughter.]

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Deputy Speaker, we have presented basic logical clearest information to you, that we have presented the contents of the case, even to the Speaker herself. She has received papers and a case number has been determined. The Constitutional Court is going to be dealing with this matter. For Parliament, an organ of state to continue to discuss the issue, which is before the Constitutional Court, is unconstitutional. It is not legal.

However, if you feel like you are too powerful, you can go ahead with it. Go ahead! We are not part of that discussion. You can discuss and do your own things. We are not part of illegal discussions that seek to justify the corruption committed in Nkandla. You can go ahead on your own. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, we will proceed as earlier indicated. We have heard the sides of the members, and I suggest that we proceed.

Mr C T FROLICK: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Speaker, hon Deputy President, members of the executive, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, on 2 June 2015, the National Assembly - through a House resolution - established an ad hoc committee to consider the report by the Minister of Police tabled on 28 May 2015 in reply to recommendations in the report of the ad hoc committee to consider the report by the President regarding security upgrades at his Nkandla private residence as adopted by the National Assembly on 13 November 2014. The mandate of the committee indicated that it should consist of, amongst others, 14 voting members and 16 nonvoting members and that it should exercise the powers in Rule 138 and the Rules applicable to committees and generally that may assist it in carrying out its functions and submit the report to the House with its findings and recommendations, where applicable, by 7 August 2015. With the co-operation of all members serving on the committee, a report was duly tabled on 6 August 2015. The report by the Minister of Police on the security upgrades at the Nkandla private residence of the President therefore serves as the base document for consideration by the ad hoc committee.

On 24 June 2015, the Speaker referred a letter containing a report from the Minister of Public Works to the ad hoc committee. On 11 June, the committee met in line with Assembly Rule 131 and proceeded to elect a chairperson. The committee reconvened on 23 June, at which point some members of the committee expressed a view that the work of the committee could be unconstitutional and that they reject the report of the Minister of Police in its entirety. At that point, as a chairperson, I indicated that the committee is set up according to Rule 214 of the National Assembly Rules and that we would conduct our work in terms of Rule 138. The work of the ad hoc committee was broadly to execute the constitutional mandate of the National Assembly, namely to oversee executive action. Therefore the work of the committee is consistent with the Constitution.

A draft programme was tabled that included the briefing by the Minister of Police on his report and an in loco visit to the private residence of the President at Nkandla. Proposals were made at this stage to invite, amongst others, the Public Protector, the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, the Minister of Police and the Minister of Public Works. After deliberations, the committee agreed to commence with its work by considering the report of the Minister of Police in a briefing by the Minister and also to conduct the in loco visit to Nkandla.

On 21 July, the Minister of Police, amongst other things, reported as follows: that he took his mandate from the recommendations which are now House resolutions of the previous ad hoc committee as agreed to by the National Assembly on 13 November 2014; that the alleged nonsecurity features were assessed by experts and were found to be security features; that the total amount spent on the project is R206,4 million as reported by the Chief Financial Officer of the Department of Public Works; that the remainder of the R135 million was the cost of the SAPS and the SANDF’s departmental operational needs; and that the security upgrades actually cost R50,5 million while consultancy fees on the security upgrades cost R20,6 million.

On 22 July, members visited the private residence of the President for an in loco inspection, and hon members and different members will reflect because there were sharp views that came out of that visit. The committee met on 23 July for further deliberations and decided to reinvite the Minister of Police to get greater clarity on certain issues, as well as the Minister of Public Works to present his report. A specific interest for members was clarity on the R135,2 million spent on the houses built for the SAPS and SANDF personnel and the clinic. The committee duly convened thereafter on 29 July in Parliament, and the Minister of Police came to clarify issues, and the Minister of Public Works also took us through his report. After this presentation, certain members of the committee insisted that the Public Protector be invited to present to the committee. No agreement was reached on the matter, and the proposal was rejected after being put to a vote.

A number of findings were made by the committee. There was general agreement that: South Africans were misled about the opulence of the private residence of the President; there is a gross exaggeration of the scope, scale and cost of the project; there is no value for money spent on the project and there is gross inflation of prices; the workmanship is shoddy and of poor quality; most of the work is still incomplete, especially the one that relate to security monitoring of the President’s private residence. Consequently, it is clear that the current security arrangements are insufficient and incomplete; there is general consensus that those responsible for deviations from the prescriptions of the Public Finance Management Act should be held accountable and that the money must be recovered from those found guilty of these transgressions.

The committee thus makes the following recommendations: that the executive ensures that all necessary steps are taken to ensure that the safety of the Head of State and his family is not compromised; that the Portfolio Committees of Public Works and Police and the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence ensure continuous monitoring of corrective actions to be taken by the relevant national departments; that the relevant departments and law enforcement authorities ensure the expeditious conclusion of civil, criminal and disciplinary matters; that the report of the Minister of Police be adopted; and that the report of the Minister of Public Works be adopted.

Opposition parties tabled a proposed report that was rejected after being put to the vote. I submit this report to the House for consideration and adoption. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms G BREYTENBACH: Hon members, the third ad hoc committee on Nkandla to consider the report of the Minister of Police regarding the security upgrades at the private residence of the President at Nkandla knew from the outset that the committee was functioning outside the strict prescripts of the law. All members, both ANC and members from participating opposition parties, knew this because it is clearly set out in the Constitution, the Public Protector Act, and most recently in the judgement of Judge Ashton Schippers. They also knew it because we told them so, repeatedly. We also told them that our participation could not and did not legitimise the process.

Judge Schippers set out the correct and currently binding procedure quite clearly in his judgement of the DA versus the SABC that if the President is not satisfied with the remedial action ordered by the Public Protector and if he had doubts about whether or not he should comply, then the remedy was to take the findings and the remedial action ordered by the Public Protector on review to a competent court. The learned judge makes it quite clear that the remedial action ordered by the Public Protector cannot be ignored.

The President has failed to launch review proceedings. What the President has sought to do instead is to appoint the Minister of Police - who is beholden to the President for his job - to determine whether the President is liable to pay for any of the upgrades to his private residence, and if so, in what amount? This amounts to the President ignoring the remedial action ordered by the Public Protector, which said nothing at all about the Minister of Police being involved in the proposed process and to substitute it with the report produced by the Minister of Police. This committee seeks to ratify that action by the President and the Minister to exonerate the President in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary and to absolve him from any personal liabilities for repayment for the extensive upgrades to his private residence at the taxpayers’ expense.

It is clear that the ANC caucus today is intent upon bulldozing this report through this House. Again we say to them that it is both morally wrong and unconstitutional. We appeal to them to vote according to their dormant consciences; to vote in favour of the minority report presented by the opposition parties. Do the right thing, just this once. You might actually enjoy it. [Applause.]

Mr N SINGH: Deputy Speaker, the IFP agreed to participate in this committee in the hope that the majority party would recant their jaundiced view and support the facts that the Public Protector’s remedial action in respect of the payment of nonsecurity upgrades at Nkandla be upheld and respected. We have now heard that there is court action and we await the ruling by the Supreme Court of Appeal, SCA, and the Constitutional Court in that particular matter.

Coming to the work of the committee, we, as the IFP, and other parties, would have expected that, at the very least, Rule 138 of this House would have been applied in spirit and in word. To that extent, we were disappointed that our request to invite other witnesses before the committee – and who would have included the Public Protector, amongst others - was rejected outright by the majority party. This is not in keeping with the well-known adage of the audi alteram partem rule, and we just hope that that can still be applied, moving forward.

What makes matters worse is that the Public Protector, in person, was extremely vilified by some members of the ruling party in that committee. We need to remind ourselves that we can kill the message, but certainly, we do not need to kill the messenger.

However, turning to the report tabled by the Minister of Police, as per resolution of this House, the IFP must state that we emphatically and categorically reject the recommendations made by the Minister of Police. What are the facts? There was a selective approach in conducting the business because the Minister only concentrated on four issues that were mentioned by the Public Protector. There were other improvements, like air conditioning and lifts, etc, on which no view was expressed by the Minister of Police.

We, as the IFP, believe that the President is responsible for paying for nonsecurity upgrades, which there are, at Nkandla. We accept that there was poor workmanship, gross inflation of prices and flouting of tender regulations and supply chain management. However, we say that this was not done by somebody “out there”. This was done under the watch of an ANC-run government department, or departments. Now, we can’t blame somebody else when their own government was responsible for these things that happened. The taxpayer has been ripped off, and the taxpayer needs money back.

However, this is not only about Nkandla. This is about undermining our constitutional democracy and undermining the role of Chapter 9 institutions. We believe that the festering sore of Nkandla will grow and continue to haunt us and, particularly, the majority party in years to come, until the cows come home and the chickens have come home to roost.

I appeal to you and the hon members. We still have a chance to redeem ourselves. Let us refer this report back and let us look deeply at Nkandla and let us await the outcome of what the SCA and the Constitutional Court say before we take a final decision on whether the President should or should not pay.

We reject the report. Thank you.

Prof N M KHUBISA: Deputy Speaker, hon members, the NFP stated categorically in the previous debate that the recommendations that were made by the Public Protector with regard to the remedial action that has to be undertaken must be upheld.

Firstly, the Public Protector pointed out that the President and his family benefited unduly from the upgrades that were done on the state residence in Nkandla. She recommended that the President should pay back a portion to the state. For the NFP, this would have been the easiest thing for him to do.

Secondly, all those who were found to have been part of the corrupt activities were supposed to be charged, disciplined and prosecuted.

Let me repeat. The reluctance of the President and the ANC to accept the report and recommendations of the Public Protector, a Chapter 9 institution which serves as a buffer between democracy and the excessive use and abuse of state power, is a direct assault on the Constitution of the country.

We are dealing with a report on the matter of security and nonsecurity features. It is clear that prices were grossly inflated. Those who were involved in the Nkandla project wanted to get rich overnight through state resources. The project began at R27 million and ended up at R206 million. Eventually, it was calculated to have been R256 million. The professional fees, alone, amounted to R20 million. The kraal cost the state a shocking R1 million. One thatched-roof hut of the 21 huts outside the state residence cost more than a whopping R6 million. What is referred to as a swimming pool, amphitheatre and visitors’ centre are so small, compared to what they cost. Prices were grossly inflated. The introduction of Minenhle Makhanya to the contractors by the President also left much to be desired.

People must be charged. The recommendations of the Public Protector must be upheld. It was also abundantly clear in the ad hoc committee that the ANC members were not willing to have the Public Protector and other witnesses coming to the committee. It is therefore clear that the NFP cannot, in good faith, agree with the process and findings of the ad hoc committee on the report of the Minister of Police regarding the Nkandla debacle, which has been dragging on and on and on, ad nauseum. At the heart of this unfortunate chapter in the history of our democracy are the twin issues of transparency and accountability, both of which are essential requirements for good governance.

The NFP believes that the kraal, swimming pool, amphitheatre and visitors’ centre are not security features. There is no value for money spent on the shoddy and unfinished work that was done at Nkandla. Why must the state foot the bill for the corruption that occurred at that residence? Why was a reservoir not built instead of a swimming pool, which is a recreational facility?

The NFP believes that due consideration must be given to people in the proximity of the state residence, and all departments must come together to ensure that those people get basic services, like houses, roads, electricity and water, and are assisted with co-operatives and businesses.

The NFP rejects the report that is tabled by the ANC.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: Deputy Speaker, hon members, the UDM does not support this report, and the reasons are outlined below.

Firstly, our view is that the process was illegal. We made that very clear from the beginning.

Secondly, our participation in that forum did not, at any point, seek to legitimise it. The issue is that ad hoc committee refused to call more witnesses, such as the Public Protector, to appear in front of the committee to give evidence and to speak to the report, while every attempt was made to discredit her report.

Thirdly, from the outset, we made it categorically clear that we have a problem with the illegally extended mandate of the Police Minister’s report. It is already known, for example, that the Public Protector’s report is unambiguous on the remedial action that needs to be taken – that is, we are supposed to determine the cost of nonsecurity features at the President’s private residence at Nkandla in order to ensure that President Zuma pays back what is due by him. However, the Police Minister went ahead and did the opposite by determining whether or not President Zuma is liable to pay any amount. We vehemently disagree with this line of argument. The missing link here, therefore, is the report that determines the value of the actual work that was done at President Zuma’s private home in Nkandla and how much of that went into nonsecurity upgrades.

The fact of the matter is that no amount of clever semantic manoeuvring can change the fact that President Zuma benefited unduly from the security upgrades at his private home in Nkandla. Even the Police Minister’s report, which is a desperate attempt to exonerate the President from any liability, in some respects, gives indisputable proof that the President did benefit unduly from the project. For instance, the report wants us to believe that the swimming pool was constructed as insurance against the unlikely event of fire. However, given the low probability of this happening, it is clear that in the majority of instances, the pool will serve the more likely events of recreation and other related activities.

Many have argued that the location of the swimming pool next to the visitors’ centre confirms that it was constructed for firefighting. However, I find it difficult to understand this line of argument, given the fact that the President’s main house is not even clearly visible from the swimming pool. I therefore shudder to think what would happen to our beloved President in the unlikely event of a fire.

Fourthly, while moving the kraal from the original position made perfect sense for security purposes, the fact of the matter is that the President asked for a larger kraal, according to the Public Protector’s report. That means he should pay for the costs incurred in increasing the diameter of the kraal.

For this, and other reasons, we do not support this report. I thank you very much.

Dr C P MULDER: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Deputy President, Madam Speaker, what is Nkandla about? It is about constitutional principles. It’s about the powers and competences of constitutional institutions. It’s about the essence of our constitutional state – which is supposed to be transparent and accountable. It’s about what is right and what is wrong. It’s about corruption and fraud. It’s about collective amnesia. It’s about R246 million of taxpayers’ money spent for the benefit of the President.

After the ad hoc committee’s visit to Nkandla last month, the ANC members are suddenly in agreement that there had been a huge inflation of prices with regard to contracts; that the state had been robbed on a large scale; that serious corruption had taken place.

Guilty people have to be brought to book.

It is, however, the same ANC members who refused to allow the Public Protector to be heard, or that one single witness other than the two ANC Ministers be called during all three ad hoc committees which had been set up as a result of this matter. No witness who is not under strict control of the ANC caucus or Luthuli House was allowed anywhere near this process.

The ANC – the mighty national liberation movement – is scared of one woman, the Public Protector. [Interjections.] That is the essence of Nkandla. You are scared of one woman!

Does this speak of a serious search for the truth, or does it attest to a desperate attempt to defend the absolute indefensible at all costs?

Did the President and his family unduly benefit? The answer is an unequivocal yes, they did. Two-hundred-and-six million rand has already been spent in a radius of less than one kilometer around the house of the President.

Let’s just consider the pool. There is agreement that it is a swimming pool. It’s not a fire pool. This fire pool that is supposed to fight fire has, by some coincidence, a shallow end as well as a deep end. A shallow end for small fires and a deep end for big fires! [Laughter.] No. It is a swimming pool. Let us not play with words.

Now, did the hon President know what was going on at Nkandla? Yes, he absolutely knew what was going on.

Here is a simple question for the President. Mr President, did you at any time make enquiries about the cost of this project, which was conspicuously extensive and high? And if not, did you never feel it is your duty as Head of State to make enquiries about this?

No, that was never done.

The fact of the matter is, do not for one moment expect to find justice, or an honest answer about the truth with regard to Nkandla anywhere the ANC has a majority. It will not be found there. It will be found somewhere else, perhaps in the courts. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr F BEUKMAN: Deputy Speaker, Deputy President, hon members, on behalf of the ANC, we want to thank the chairperson of the ad hoc committee for his stewardship of the proceedings and for the professional way in which he insured the maximum participation of all parties in the House.

The proceedings of the committee derive from a specific constitutional imperative that is underscored by the principle of separation of powers. The constitutional mandate of Parliament as contained in Chapter 4 of the Constitution is the departure point, with specific reference to section 42(1)(3) thereof.

The National Assembly is elected to represent the people, to ensure government by the people and to scrutinise and oversee executive action.

Section 55(2)(a) of the Constitution obliges Parliament to ensure that all executive organs of state in the national sphere of government are accountable to it, and section 55(2)(b) obliges Parliament to maintain oversight of the exercise of national executive authority, including any organ of state.

The mandate of the ad hoc committee relates to scrutiny and overseeing executive action. Therefore, the work of the committee is consistent with the Constitution. We, as Members of the House, cannot shy away from that duty, nor can we expect other agencies to do it for us.

The mandate of the committee is clearly spelled out in the Rules, specifically Rule 214(3), which says, and I quote:

An ad hoc committee may only be established for the performance of a specific task, and the business of the committee must be completed within a set timeframe.

The task of the committee has been clearly spelled out in the resolution that was adopted by the House.

Contrary to the two written submissions that were made by opposition parties during the proceedings, the task of the committee was not rehash or redo the work of the second ad hoc committee.

We heard various agreements here this afternoon. But the opposition parties who spoke before me voluntarily elected to withdraw from that process.

For purposes of today’s debate it is important to note that the final report of the second ad hoc committee regarding the security upgrades at the Nkandla residence of the President was adopted by the National Assembly on 13 November 2014.

In the course of that committee’s lifetime the following reports were considered: the report of the interministerial task team; the report of the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence; the Public Protector’s report; and the Special Investigation Unit’s report.

The comparative table in the second ad hoc committee’s report 3.5.2, on page 2 967 shows the general agreement across the said reports that were properly considered by the previous committee.

It is apparent from the mentioned House resolution that there were identifiable lacunas in the Public Protector’s report, which necessitated action to be taken by the executive. An instance of such gaps relate to what constitutes security and non-security features in the upgrades effected by the state at the President’s Nkandla homestead.

Cabinet was instructed through a House resolution to assemble a team of security experts to determine which of the contested features constituted security and which constituted non-security features at the President’s private homestead.

The House resolution did not undermine or blame the Office of the Public Protector for the identified gaps in the Secure in Comfort report. Instead, in its attempt to assist and protect the Office of the Public Protector in a respectful way and by acting consistently within its constitutional mandate, the Assembly instructed Cabinet to identify the gaps to enable it to properly exercise its oversight responsibility over the executive.

It is important to note that the Assembly could not instruct the Office of the Public Protector to attend to the identified gaps, mainly for two reasons. Firstly, instructing the Office of the Public Protector in the circumstances would have been equal to interference with the work of that Office, a conduct prohibited by the Constitution. Secondly, the Office of the Public Protector had already completed its investigation into the matter and was therefore functus officio.

On 2 June 2015, the Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved that the House establishes an ad hoc committee to consider the report by the Minister of Police tabled on 28 May 2015 in reply to recommendations contained in the report of the ad hoc committee to consider the report by the President regarding security upgrades. The motion was agreed to and subsequently the membership of the ad hoc committee was published on 10 June 2015.

The Minister of Police conducted the investigation and reported back to Parliament at the end of May 2015 in this report.

In terms of section 55(2)(b) of the Constitution, the ad hoc committee effected its oversight on the national executive authority, in this instance the Minister of Police.

In the recent judgement of the Western Cape High Court, Judge Schippers stated that the Public Protector Act, in keeping with the scheme of section 181 and 182 of the Constitution, contains no provision that the findings and remedial action required by the Public Protector are binding and enforceable, as in the case of a court order. Paragraph 60 of the judgement holds that an organ of state cannot ignore the findings and remedial action of the Public Protector.

The recommendations of the Public Protector can only be enforced by the National Assembly when submitted to it in order to hold the executive to account in terms of section 55(2) of the Constitution.

Also, the report of the Public Protector is only final when it is approved or rejected by the National Assembly.

The point should also be made that, whilst there is a constitutional obligation on Parliament as an organ of state to assist and protect Chapter 9 institutions, such an obligation does not require of the Assembly to accept reports of Chapter 9 institutions blindly without question.

The above is true because, firstly, the Assembly is accountable to members of the public for its own actions and decisions. Secondly, in terms of section 181(5) of the Constitution, Chapter 9 institutions are accountable to the Assembly and report their activities to the same institution. Constitutionally, the recommendations contained in the report of the Public Protector can only be enforced by the National Assembly.

We are of the view that the process followed by the ad hoc committee was in line with the requirements of the Constitution and the rules of the National Assembly. It is our submission that once the debate concludes this afternoon and the report of the ad hoc committee is adopted or rejected by the House, the process is concluded.

Our submission is that the report be adopted. I thank you.

Ms D CARTER: Hon Deputy Speaker, there was no need for incurring any expenses for security upgrades. There’s a fully furnished presidential homestead owned by government in KwaZulu-Natal, King’s House, which was good enough and utilised by late President Mandela and former President Mbeki. I repeat that there was no need for incurring any expenses for security upgrades.

Those who wield power try to make their own truth. Truth stands the test of time. Those who don’t like the truth, don’t like history. History, as we all know, judges those who knowingly distort the truth very harshly. No one can sanitise a scandal. There’s no detergent known to humanity that can actually do so. Those on this side of the House know very well what security features are. They know a swimming pool from the fire pool. They also know that the Deputy Minister of Public Works raised a question of apportionment regarding the swimming pool. They know for a fact that the President was a witness to a mega development at Little Durban. They also know that the President requested an enlarged kraal. They know all this, but they seek not to know this. Conveniently, they forget to give weight to a private architect of the President taking full charge of a Public Works Programme. They choose not to ask why Ministers and Deputy Ministers were fired and sidelined. How could a private individual have total command over a security project? How could millions be signed off without any regard for the Public Finance Management Act, PFMA, or for Treasury rules? Hypocrisy is now violating both history and integrity. What that side of the House will lend their support to, will shame their descendants. This is an act of infamy, unparalleled in our democracy.

Cope stands by the report of the Public Protector. We knew all along that the whole process was a sham infused with hypocrisy. Press the green button so that your names can be recorded and history will know who betrayed our beloved country. This is a plot to cheat the taxpayers and saddle taxpayers with an outcome of cheating. Cope denounces this whitewash report. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr S N SWART: Deputy Speaker, the ACDP will not support this report. It is inconceivable that members of the ANC who visited President Zuma’s homestead can in good conscience endorse a report that exonerates the President from having to repay anything. I went to the homestead, I felt uncomfortable being there, I was aware of the President’s security. From what I saw it is very clear that we are not talking about R246 million. We are talking about a relatively small amount by which the President is benefitting.

We saw the shoddy workmanship. We saw the inflated cost, and, yes, the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, is instituting action. But even the SIU is saying in its particulars of claims that they are suing the architect for nonsecurity issues - that is a government body. So, how can we in good conscience come and say the President did not benefit one cent? It is just not true. It’s not true. There is a banner outside that says “The truth will set you free.” Let’s be frank. I really hope that by engaging in this process, we could find each other across the floor. I can see it is not R246 million. Let’s stop saying to the public it is R246 million. We saw that cost. There is an amount we saw when we were there, and we could see the benefit that is there.

It is important to also add that the Public Protector ... and the ACDP has got no gripe with the President - It’s got nothing to do with an act of commission or omission by the President. It is similar to the doctrine of unjustified enrichment in civil law. If you are unjustifiably enriched, whether you like it or not, whether you asked for it or not, you have to pay back an amount.

We know the remedial action of the Public Protector is not binding like a court of law, but it cannot be ignored and there is a process to be followed. Her decision might be functus officio, but implementation of remedial action must take place. Otherwise be frank and say close your doors, it is useless.

So, colleagues, there is clearly a political intent to replace the Public Protector’s findings with that of the report of the Minister of Police. The ANC may have the majority in Parliament to reject the Public Protector’s report politically, but legally it is untenable. As I said in the committee, please, we don’t want courts to tell us as Parliament what to do again. But this is what is at stake now and this is what is going to happen if this report is accepted. There is an easy solution – determine a relatively small amount and repay it. The money can be raised and this matter can go away, otherwise we are going to sit with court action after court action.

Let me conclude by saying: ANC members, be truthful to yourselves and say no to this Report. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr L M NTSHAYISA: Hon Deputy Speaker, perhaps we as the AIC have come up with something that is different. We are not going to support any side here, but we are going to speak our minds. Remember that we are an independent congress. [Interjections.]

The ad hoc committee was established by Parliament to consider the report of the Minister of Police. That was the mandate given to this ad hoc committee. However, the report of the Minister of Public Works was also dealt with in this committee. It was therefore the expectation of the AIC that the Public Protector and Special Investigating Unit, SIU, would also be called to appear before this committee, as it was the case with the Minister of Public Works. But, alas, it was refused by the ANC majority in the committee.

Having paid a visit as a committee to the President’s private resident in Nkandla, one would say that the security features that we could see there could be classified as such, according to explanation and the demonstration that was shown to us. But we needed more clarity. That is the reason why we wanted the Public Protector and the SIU to come and explain. It is very interesting that the SIU and the Public Protector are of the same view that the chicken run, animal kraal, fire pool and amphitheatre are not security related. Those were the issues that we wanted the Public Protector and SIU to come and clarify, but that did not happen. It was clear that a lot of money has been used, the taxpayers’ money.

The accounting officer, that is now the director-general, and the officials of the Department of Public Works must bear the blame. You can imagine how a sum of R155 million will be recovered from the people, that is the officials and project people, more especially from Minenhle Makhanya.

As the AIC we wanted to leave no stone unturned, because we wanted everything to be clarified. The calling of the Public Protector was not to review or to investigate, but to give clarity on this issue. We can therefore say without any fear or favour that our work as this committee is incomplete and the business is unfinished. The AIC therefore rejects this report in toto, which is in its entirety.

Ms D E DLAKUDE: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Speaker, hon Deputy President, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members, our guests in the gallery, I greet you all.

As members of Parliament, we took an oath in this Chamber that we would uphold the Constitution and serve the people of this country with honesty and dignity.

The report by the Minister of Police to the ad hoc committee on 21 and 22 July and our visit to Nkandla was an eye opener.

Members of all parties represented in the committee were all disappointed, shocked, embarrassed and pained when the reality of what is at Nkandla hit home. The situation is compounded by the fact that the truth is continuously distorted for political mileage. It is indeed unfortunate desperation when the public is misled for political expediency.

PRINCE M G BUTHELEZI: Deputy Speaker, I am pleading with all humility. I can manage, but some of our colleagues here, instead of giving us an opportunity to hear what the speaker is saying, are ululating. Men are actually practicing ululation here! [Laughter] It’s not even the cultural month. They can try that in September, during cultural month. This is Women’s Month. But this is not a Chamber ululation.

The DEP SPEAKER: Hon members, it’s not yet September; let’s not ululate, please. Let’s be orderly, hon members, and allow the speakers to be heard. Go ahead, hon member.

Ms DE DLAKUDE: Hon Deputy Speaker, let me now return to the task before me and proceed to make pronouncements on what is at Nkandla.

We were ushered into a small reception area with plastic chairs and were told that is were the President meets other heads of state, dignitaries, and his constituency.

Hon members from the opposition parties said it is embarrassing for our President to meet other heads of state and dignitaries in that reception area and that it reflected poorly on our country and young democracy. I am sure the hon UDM member will remember that.

The installation was stopped ... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, hon members! Please stop talking while another member is talking.

Ms D E DLAKUDE: We were then taken to the police control room where we discovered that the security equipment that was supposed to have been installed was actually lying on the floor. We were told that the installation had been stopped due to the ongoing investigations.

The structure is of a poor quality. There are cracks in the walls. Hon Breytenbach remembers that.

We then proceeded from the police control room to the swimming pool which is located at the entrance of the homestead of the President on the slope of the hill. This is clearly designed for fire fighting purposes ... [Interjections] ... as it will allow swift ease of movement in cases of emergency. [Interjections.] Let me say that we also agree that it can be used for recreational purposes. [Interjections.]

The landscaping at Nkandla is sloping hence the need for a soil retention wall. This comes in different shapes and designs as per the choice of the project manager. If I were part of the team, I would have preferred the one on De Waal Drive that I see on my way to Parliament because that one is much better that the one at Nkandla. [Interjections.] Everywhere across the globe, when constructing roads, buildings, or dams – just to mention a few – on a sloping landscape, a soil retention wall becomes a necessity.

We were then bussed to the animal enclosure, which is the cattle kraal, chicken run and goat kraal. It is safe to say that there is nothing sophisticated about that kraal. We were told that there was a need for the removal of the animals from the family kraal which is at the centre of the private residence of the President because they would interfere with the security features. The rumour that the President requested a bigger kraal is unfounded because, if that were the case, they would have extended the family kraal instead of building a new one.

From the kraal, we were bussed to the clinic which was requested by the SA National Defence Force, SANDF. There are two entrances to the clinic: one from the President’s homestead and the other one for the residents of Nkandla. It is important for this august House to note that the clinic is not functional because everything was stopped due to the investigation.

From the clinic we were bussed to the barracks, the 20 bachelor thatched houses and a laundry. We were told that 10 of those houses were requested by the SA Police Service, SAPS, and that the other 10 was requested by the SANDF. Unfortunately, the houses were not all occupied because they were not officially handed over by the Department of Public Works and the reason so few were occupied was because of vandalism that was taking place in that area. [Interjections.]

We were also shown the park homes occupied by both SAPS and SANDF.

The committee also invited the Minister of Public Works to present his progress report on progress made so far. It is safe for this august House to note that all those structures are on Ingonyama Trust land, for which the Department of Public Works has a long-term lease agreement signed on 16 April 2013. He also told the committee that the department is in the process of handing over the 21 houses to both SAPS and SANDF.

Disciplinary processes were instituted against 12 officials for the irregular appointment of contractors and not following procurement processes and causing the Department of Public Works to incur irregular expenditure. One official represented by National Education, Health and Allied Workers Union, Nehawu, accepted a plea bargain proposed by his union and was suspended without pay. He will not be able to participate in procurement processes until he is fully trained and understands the issues around procurement processes. [Interjections].

Disciplinary action against another official is hampered by the high court application for media access launched against certain chairpersons who refuse media access in the disciplinary hearing.

On policy and regulatory gaps, the Department of Public Works is currently developing norms and standards to guide the implementation of security requirements at the private residence of political office bearers to ensure that it does so in an economical and cost-effective manner. A draft has been developed thus far.

On civil recovery, the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, instituted a High Court action on behalf of the Department of Public Works against the architect and principal agent in order to recover R155 million.

On criminal action, evidence ...

The ANC supports the report. [Time expired] [Applause] [Interjections.]

Mr MA PLOUAMMA: Hon Deputy President and hon Deputy Speaker, Nkandla nightmare signifies the erosion of commitment to constitutionalism and democracy. The ruling party has succeeded in the subornation of Parliament to serve His Majesty President Zuma. This Parliament is incapacitated to exert accountability from those in charge. If this Parliament adopts the Police Minister’s report and the recommendations of the ad hoc committee, therefore it will succeed in obscuring the political sins and corruption of President Zuma.

Hon members, let us, just for once, stop politics of the stomach and serve our country from these con artists and fraudsters. What kind of the President do we have? We have a moral and intellectual bankrupt one. Hon President, you are responsible for your Nkandla looting. Material temptations have bought your soul.

We should not allow President Zuma to fall with this country. Let him fall alone; let him fall alone. President Zuma is an opposite of honesty, integrity and compassion. He is a President who embraces crooks and con artists. On behalf of Agang we wholeheartedly reject this report. I thank you.

Dr L MBINDA: Deputy Speaker, the PAC is disappointed by the personality cult that has been created in the country. The amount of time, financial and other resources that have been committed in the Nkandla scandal is disproportional to the needs of this country. We cannot for a number of years be discussing and debating the obvious requirement of the President to pay what he has unduly benefitted from the taxpayers’ money.

As the PAC we acknowledge that the security of the head of state is critical. We also acknowledge that law enforcement agencies must do their work. The PAC appreciates the need for Police, Public Works and the joint standing committees to continue their oversight work. But all those are dealing with the symptoms of the problem. The fundamental problem is political unaccountability because all the three recommendations of the ad hoc committee talk to civil servants. They talk to the administrative accountability, but they do not talk to political accountability. We feel sorry for the officials.

When it comes to political accountability, the report of the Minister was off course. It plays the role of descending with a tsotsi-like approach. So, as the PAC we call on this House to reject this report. We see the executive descending itself and maybe we can even understand it. What we do not understand is the ad hoc committee having the responsibility of oversight also playing a defensive role on an indefensible act.

The ad hoc committee has dismally failed this House by not accepting all the information and the parties that could have assisted in bringing the issue to a final closure. We hope this House will agree with us as the PAC that the ministries concerned, particularly the Ministry dealing with finances must do the necessary calculation on what the President must pay because it is obvious that there are a lot of millions to be paid, and it is our responsibility as members of this House to ensure that wasteful, fruitless and irregular expenditures and personal cult are eliminated forever in the discourse of our nation. Thank you.

Mr J SELFE: Deputy Speaker, four things are certain about Nkandla. Firstly, the South African taxpayers were ripped off, their money was stolen. We neither do not know for sure who stole their money, although we have a pretty good idea, nor do we know exactly how much money was stolen, but it ran to hundreds of millions of rands.

Secondly, there was dereliction of duty by politicians and officials alike. Despite the fact that these actions occurred five to six years ago, no one has yet been held properly to account. The closest we have come has been some disciplinary proceedings against some junior officials. In just the same way that the blame for the Guptagate was dumped on Colonel Anderson, so the blame for Nkandla is now being shifted to Jean Rindel.

Thirdly, there is not a slightest dot that President Zuma and his family benefited from the upgrades. Look at the picture of his homestead in 2010 and compare it to what happens today. The family Zuma now has a swimming pool, it has an amphitheatre, it has an entertainment deck above the garage for nine vehicles, it has a clinic conveniently close, and a bulletproof into the deal. These are what the ad hoc committee saw. We did not see the safe haven with lifts constructed at the cost of R21,1 million. We did not see the mood lighting or the air conditioning that cost over R4 million. We did not see the landscaping in the security area that cost R7,2 million. By common consent, none of these items were specified as being necessary for the President’s security by the SA Police Service, SAPS, or the SA National Defence Force, SANDF.

That is why the Public Protector found in paragraph 10.5 (2) of her report that:

The allegation that the excessive expenditure added to the substantial value of the President’s private property at the expense of the state is substantiated. The excessive and improper manner, in which the Nkandla project was implemented, resulted in substantial value being unduly added to the President’s private property. The acts and omissions that allowed this to happen constitute unlawful and improper conduct and maladministration.

That is why the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, found on page 129 of its report that:

Items were constructed or provided even though they had not been identified in the security assessment reports as requirements to ensure the security of the President and his family. In yet other instances, having regard to the purpose being served by the upgrades, reasonable modesty gave way to indefensible extravagance.

Fourthly, there can be no way that the President could have been unaware about what was going on in his homestead. He himself asked for the police officers who were occupying a house in the inner parameter to be moved. He himself told the Public Protector that he needed a bigger cattle kraal to accommodate the bigger herd and that he was prepared to pay for some of the costs. He himself complained to the former Deputy Minister of Public Works about the slow pace of the construction. Lifts were installed in his own home and tunnels constructed that lead to the safe haven. How could he possibly have been unaware of these things? No, the President knew what was going on and he knew it was wrong.

From the time that he knew that the Public Protector has launched an investigation, the President ducked and dived. He raised procedural points, no doubt on the advice of Michael Hulley, his attorney, now employed by the taxpayers. He responded evasively or not at all to critical questions put to him by the Public Protector. He instituted other enquiries like the interministerial committee and the SIU. He did everything. But what the Public Protector had ordered by way of remedial action, which as we all know, was, and I quote:

To take steps by the assistance of the National Treasury and the SAPS to determine the reasonable cost of the measures implemented by the Department of Public Works, DPW, at his private residence that do not relate to security which include - and I must emphasise the word include - the visitors centre, the amphitheatre, the cattle kraal, chicken run and the swimming pool, and to pay a reasonable percentage of the costs.

The President did not do such thing. Instead, he told Parliament on 14 August last year that he deemed it appropriate that the Minister of Police should determine not the reasonable percentage of the costs that he was obliged to repay, but to whether or not he was obliged to make any contribution at all.

The Minister of Police produced a report that is simultaneously nauseatingly obsequious, economical with the truth and factually inaccurate. [Applause.] Unsurprisingly, the report found that the President did not have to pay anything at all. Not a blue cent! Worse than that, he found that there were still further costs that would have to be incurred to provide further security for this increasingly insecure man.

From the outset, the process has been deeply problematic. We are advised that it is irrational, unlawful and unconstitutional for the President to substitute remedial action ordered by the Public Protector with another course of action. If the President had had a rational reason for differing with the Public Protector’s remedial action, he should have taken this on review in the courts.

We were advised that we should participate in this process and exhaust our internal remedies. We have done so. We have pleaded with the majority party to see a reason. It is up to now been deaf to our appeals. We appeal once more, reject the Police Minister’s report and accept the report tabled by the minority parties. We really hope that our colleagues in the opposite side of the House will do the right thing because when the history of democratic South Africa is finally written, Nkandla will be at its low point. It represents everything that is bad, hollow and corrupt about South Africa. It is the exact opposite of what we dreamed of and hoped for in 1994.

Vast amounts of money were poured into security securing one man’s private house, and yet he remains insecure. The homestead and its security upgrades stand as monuments to the vanity, greed and delusions of grandeur that characterise Jacob Zuma’s Presidency. All pomp and no substance!

This is not the end of the matter whatever the hon Beukman says. We will not rest until the President has done what he was ordered to do. Watch this space. [Applause.]

Ms M T KUBAYI: Deputy Speaker, hon members, fellow South Africans, it is important for me to commence my input to this debate by quoting one of the most important Proverbs: "Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter”. I quote this proverb to clearly reflect the two tales of the private residence of the Head of State of the Republic of South Africa in Nkandla village, the tale of fiction versus that of reality. The reality of the story is that the storyteller has, for many years, omitted to tell the South African nation. The story that R246 million was never spent at the homestead of the Head of State of South Africa. The tale that the costs were inflated and there was no comfort let alone security to the level befitting that of the Head of State of the Republic of South Africa.

Fellow South Africans, the story that the storyteller didn’t tell is that one of a shoddy workmanship that is not befitting that of a sitting Head of State. The walls have cracked, tiles are broken and the biometrics is not working hence the security is not working and we argue, there is no comfort, let alone security. Then we as South Africans must ask where the opulence that we were informed about is? We must call for all those involved in the project to account. We are very clear. Heads must roll.

Was this a situation of an imaginary tale that would be created, told and you are not expected to question this tale. You are expected, including Parliament, to take this fiction and see it as reality. It is forced upon us. Is this the South African society that we want to build? The answer is a big no.

Fellow South Africans, the story you were told was the one which says that the cows and the chickens of the Head of State of South Africa lives better than you. This is the fiction tale that you were told, not the reality that the cows and chickens at this homestead are living like any livestock of any South African. Again the question is, was this tale created by mistake? The answer again is a big no. This is a deliberate attempt by all cost to discredit the ANC leadership and its government. To whose benefit was this narrative created and fed to all of us to believe as reality?

I am reminded of the narrative created by the apartheid government as part of its propaganda against freedom fighters. They created an image of a communist who will never accept white people, who will destroy the country if given an opportunity to lead. After creating this bad image of a communist, they then branded anyone who was an activist against the apartheid government as a communist. They created fear amongst all South Africans “Iphekulazikhuni” – what is done in our society is a dangerous thing.

They created fear amongst the minority groupings of this country to fear this thing called communist. Today the narrative that have been created is that of a corrupt Head of State, who is selfish, who builds his homestead using taxpayers’ money to the value of R246 million, who cares only about himself and not the conditions in which many South Africans live. [Interjections.] They know in their hearts that this is not true. [Interjections.] It was what they want you fellow South Africans to believe, their fiction and not the reality nor the truth. If our Head of State loves luxury why has he remained in Mahlambandlovu and not moved into the house build by Public Works, in Pretoria, that is so luxurious? He has refused to move into that house saying that he cannot stay in such an expensive house. This is the President that we have elected – the one we know. [Interjections.]

In the committee, the DA argued that the establishment of the ad hoc committee was illegal. Now let us look back at March 2015; an interview done by hon Maimane with eNews Channel Africa, eNCA, where he stated that they will not be co-opted to deal with the Minister’s report in secret but they agreed to the ad hoc committee. Then what is this noise about - telling us that it is legal? You started and you wanted this ad hoc committee. What you get is because you are inconsistent, you are forced to deal with people who still can make up and change their minds - what is this thing that you have as a party? [Interjections.]

Again, let me remind you, on the 16 April 2014, hon Maimane, during his speech as the DA Gauteng Premier candidate he said: “I have been to Nkandla, that project alone shows that President Zuma’s cattle indeed have a better life than those of the people of Protea South” [Interjections.] Again, on 6 April 2014, at Tembisa, you said “His chickens lead a better life than people in this country”. Then, why were you so shocked when you went to Nkandla the other day, because you have already said you have been to Nkadla. Now, these are two tales; they are the narratives, they are not prepared to move from their narrative – we are forced – they are not there to learn the truth. We are forced to know their narrative.

This is the fiction that leaders have been telling South Africans. [Interjections.] If we are to talk about accountability it starts with taking responsibility and correcting what you have said which is wrong. That is accountability. [Interjections.] Tell the truth and it shall set you free; as a preacher you should know. [Interjections.] ANC members went to the discussions and visited with intention to seek the truth, we called for heads to roll for those who misused state resources. [Interjections.] When is convenient for members of the opposition they forget the law. What are the Acts of this country saying? Public Finance Management Act is very clear. When there has been misuse of money there are officials who are accountable. It is very clear, if you were given an illegal instruction, as an official, you request it in writing. Those public servants who say that they were forced to do what they did, they do not deserve to serve this country. They must stop being public servants. We expressed our disgust at the level people can undermine this country and undermine the President and create the shoddy work that they have created at Nkandla.

President Zuma did not elect himself. [Interjections.] Majority of South Africans said that they want him to lead this country and he must be given option; [Interjections.] ... and he is going to be protected. That is an obligation South Africa has. Let me correct you on something, you said that we are undermining the Public Protector; go and read the Public Protector’s Act, section 9(2) which says nothing contained in this Act shall prohibit the discussion in Parliament on a matter being investigated in terms of this Act or that is going to be investigated. So, don’t mislead the nation. We are arguing and we are allowed by the law.

The other issue that that members are talking about of ... there is nothing called minority report, look at the rules. You can only move an amendment. So, don’t mislead the House. The legality of the committee you spoke about – it is you who called for the ad hoc committee. You wanted it, you have got it and you now can’t deal with it. Now you have other stance.... We have never absolved the President unfairly. We have looked at the process, we are dealing with the process and we are seeing accountability – heads must roll. Those who have misused the money, who have undermined this country and use the money and have stolen money from Nkandla must account. We support this report and move for its adoption. Thank you.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY: Hon Deputy Speaker, I move that the report be adopted.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, ... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members! The motion is that the report be adopted. Are there any objections? [Interjections.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, I wish to move an amendment to the report if I may? [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, alright, in that event I would like to read a ruling on minority reports. [Interjections.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: It is not a minority report; it is an amendment, Deputy Speaker!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member! Hon member! Listen to me!

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I am following Ms Kubayi’s advice.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You should follow my advice instead. You should follow my advice. Yes. [Interjections.] Hon members, hon members let me do what I need to do first. [Interjections.] Hon members, on Thursday, 13 November 2014, when considering the report of the ad hoc committee, on the report by the President on the security upgrades at his private residence, Nkandla; the hon Chief Whip of the Opposition moved, as an amendment that the House removes all the words after as follows and report them with a report which he then proceeded to table. He did so without reading the full text of the amendment.

Members are aware that in terms of the Rules, specifically, National Assembly Rule 1374, there is no provision for minority reports. This matter has been discussed and debated at length in the Rules Committee, I am told, of several Parliaments and again in depth during the current Rules review process and at present the proposals is that the status quo be retained.

The House requires the opinion of the committee as a committee, not that of individual members. It is the committee as a whole that has been given a task by the House. If the committee fails to find unanimity, the conclusions agreed to by the majority are the conclusions of the committee. This is supported by Erskine May and Parliamentary practice in many jurisdictions.

On the day in question tempers in the House were such that in the interest of insuring proceedings continued without further interruption the amendment by the Chief Whip of the Opposition, though procedurally not sound, was put to the House for consideration and it was rejected in the process. Amendments are usually recorded in the minutes of the proceedings in the order in which they are put to the House for decision. In the interest of reflecting the situation as it occurred in the House on 13 November, the report proposed by the Chief Whip of the Opposition as an amendment, was subsequently appended to the minutes of the proceedings. Proposing amendments to the recommendations in the report is in order, as they will become resolutions of the House once agreed to. However, the submission of an entire new report as an amendment is not supported by our rules or practice.

The object of an amendment is to modify the question before the House in such a way as to increase its acceptability or present to the House a different proposition as an alternative to the original question. Alternative proposals to the main question are therefore placed before the House by means of amendments and debated.

Amendments are classified in three types, namely, to leave out certain words; to leave out certain words in order to insert or add others; to insert or add certain words; - very important just like in a debate the proposed amendment must be relevant to the subject of the question and intelligible. It follows, therefore, that the proposer of the amendment must read it out in full in order for the House to know what is being proposed.

Furthermore, amendments should not propose a mere negation of the terms of motion, in other words exactly the opposite as the proper method of expressing a contrary opinion is by voting against a motion without seeking to amend it.

I have set out the approach to minority report in terms of our rules and practices. I have also explained the procedure for moving amendments to a question before the House. I, therefore, want to ask members who intend to move amendments to do so where possible at the start of their speeches so that the House is privy to what it has to decide eventually. Please do not omit to deliver signed copies of your amendments to the Table for inclusion in the minutes of the proceedings.

That is what I thought is important to do because there is often an assumption that omission or commission by the Presiding Officers often constitute a precedent even if it is obviously against the rules. We do so to correct what happened in the passed.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, I do not wish to move a minority report. I wish to move an amendment to item four that is before the House, which is the recommendation. I wish to replace the words after the word “Recommendations” with the following:

(1) The President and his family have benefited unduly from the upgrades to his private family residence;

(2) There were improvements that were obviously not security related, including but not limited to the swimming pool, the amphitheatre, the larger cattle kraal, the visitors’ centre, extensive paving and the relocation of neighbours;

It is entirely possible that when the Public Protector visited Nkandla 18 months ago prior to compiling her report the whole place was in a better condition and that it has been allowed to deteriorate since her visit;

(4) The above also applies to the visit of the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, in July 2014;

(5) The Minister of Police misinterpreted his mandate and only concentrated on four issues, failing to consider the other issues raised in the reports of the Public Protector and the SIU;

(6) The Minister of Police, by his own admission, never engaged with the Public Protector, contrary to the judgment delivered by Judge Schippers;

(7) The swimming pool is a recreational facility that could also be used for fire-fighting and was not primarily a security feature;

(8) The visitors’ centre is clearly not a security feature, and it was not requested by any of the security experts;

(9) The amphitheatre has at best a dual purpose as an observation or sitting space for public gatherings and soil retention;

(10) The larger cattle kraal or animal enclosure is far larger than the original one, and the President has unduly benefited from the construction thereof, as it is clearly not a security feature;

(11) Prices were inflated, and there were instances of poor workmanship;

(12) Some of the work appeared to be incomplete;

(13) All those responsible for deviations from the Public Finance Management Act should be held accountable;

(14) None of the amounts spent at Nkandla appeared in the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework or departmental budgets, and thus they were deliberately hidden from Parliament;

(15) All of the buildings and upgrades constructed at Nkandla are directly linked to the fact that the President resides there.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Steenhuisen, the guide that you have before you advises you that such amendments must be crisp, short and brief, and yours is not so.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Well, they are. [Interjections.] Sorry, are you ... you’ve asked me to read it out, and I am doing so.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, the guide ...

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: What Rule is it, Deputy Speaker?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The guide in your hand ...

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Which guide?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: ... advises you that any such amendment must be crisp and short.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Can you direct me to the page? Can you direct me to the page?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, we will do that.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Can you direct me to the page? Mine is crisp and clear.

Mr M L W FILTANE: Deputy Speaker, on a point ... [Interjections.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I would like to continue, please.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon member? Go ahead. What is your point of order?

Mr M L W FILTANE: Deputy Speaker, I am trying to interpret what you are saying. Are you therefore suggesting that he takes one clause at a time so that he keeps it short? [Interjections.] Then the House looks at one clause at a time; that will be short. Thank you. [Applause.] [Laughter.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am not saying that, hon member.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I am nearly there. If you let me get there, we can save time. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, we will give you reference, but what we said earlier on is very ... [Interjections.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: No, no, no!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hold on. We will give you reference.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: With respect, Deputy Speaker, you have to act within the Rules and precedents of Parliament. [Interjections.] I would submit that what you are doing now is straying from the Rules and precedents of Parliament and onto very dangerous ground. Please allow me to continue with my amendment.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Wait, hon member. Hon member, in referring to the types of recommendations, we expressly said that you leave out certain words ...

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Yes.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: ... in order to insert or add others and to insert or add certain words or so on. [Applause.] Hon members, being intelligible and brisk is an important requirement. In other words, you must be brief ... [Interjections.] ... yes, in your guide to these practices.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: With respect, sir, there is nothing in the Guide to Procedure. There is nothing in the Rules of Parliament and, in fact, the precedent of this House is contrary to what you are saying. I would like to finish reading, please. I am nearly there. I would have been finished by now, had you allowed me to continue. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member ...

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Please do not suppress my right to move an amendment.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hold on. Hon member, the reason I allow you to proceed – we will come back to this, and as we have said in the past ... no, waving the book is not authority enough.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: That is what you did. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member!

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: It is lot more authority than waving a piece of paper.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: We will come back to you so that even as we go through the procedures that we are talking about, we will give you the reference. This is to articulate the reasons why you should be crisp, why the amendment was intended to be done in the way in which we have been suggesting. What you are doing is not in order.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Of course it is. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I will allow you to proceed. [Interjections.] We will come back to the recording of this ruling. Let’s proceed, hon member.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Sorry, with respect, I reject your allegation that I am out of order with contempt. Would you like me to start again?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I will ... complete it. I will come back to you.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I can start from the beginning because people might have lost the train of thought.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, you can’t start again.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I wish to replace the words after the word “Recommendations” with the following:

(17) The clinic will be for the use of the President and his family and perhaps staff, something that is confirmed in the report, and it is clearly not a security feature;

(18) It is a great pity that the committee did not get all the relevant facts, as, by avoiding the Public Protector, the SIU and others, the committee is forced to rely solely on the “experts” of the Minister of Police, but we do, however, take note of the response of the Public Protector on Monday, 3 August in which she clarifies a number of salient issues;

(19) The reaction of Mr Magubane is at odds with what we saw at Nkandla, in that he is adamant that the electronic security system was both installed and fully functional, while it was dismantled at the time of our visit;

(20) Senior Superintendent Linde was also the chairman of the SAPS building planning committee, and he signed correspondence on behalf of the Divisional Commissioner: Supply Chain Management; and

(21) Neither the Minister of Police nor the Minister of Public Works referred in their respective reports to any document relating to the apportionment of costs between the President and the state.

For all the reasons stated above, I move that the Police Minister’s report be rejected in its entirety.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, the amendment ... the proposal ...

Mr NS MATIASE: Deputy Speaker, the EFF would like to put on record at this point in time ... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Sorry!

Mr NS MATIASE: The EFF would want to put it on record at this point in time ... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: To put what?

Mr N S MATIASE: On record!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yah yah. What is that?

Mr N S MATIASE That what has been taking place here confirms our observation and conclusion ... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, is that an amendment?

Dr P W A MULDER: Deputy Speaker!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, is that an amendment?

Mr N S MATIASE: ... that the ... [Inaudible] ... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I’m in the middle of a process here to consider having this consideration ... [Interjections.]

Mr N S MATIASE: This is our submission to what has been happening. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: It has to be an amendment. If it’s not an amendment, then it’s not acceptable, hon member.

Mr N S MATIASE: That the ... [Inaudible.] is empty that ... [Inaudible.] amazes us here. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, hon member. [Interjections.]

Mr N S MATIASE: The EFF disassociates itself from the proceedings of the debate of the AD hoc committee on Nkandla.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Matiase! [Interjections.]

Mr N S MATIASE: And we want it to be on record ... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are defying the Chair! [Interjections.]

Mr N S MATIASE: That our absence is not mistaken ... [Inaudible] ... should not be mistaken and we shall be at the point where ... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You can’t be speaking when you are told not to speak ... [Interjections.]

Mr N S MATIASE: It should not be mistaken and we shall be at the point when we will be voting on this matter. We shall walk out in ... [Interjections.]

HON MEMBERS: Go! Go!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Take your seat, hon member!

Mr NF SHIVHAMBU: Deputy Speaker, can you please ... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you don’t defy the Chair and you want continue to speak. This is why I shut up the mike ...

Mr NF SHIVHAMBU: Can you please recognise me.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What are you rising on, hon member?

Mr NF SHIVHAMBU: Hon Matiase is making a simple point that we have just ... [Interjections]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No! no. Is that an amendment, hon member?

Mr NF SHIVHAMBU: ... you have just ignored the Constitution and as the EFF ... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Is that an amendment, hon member?

Mr NF SHIVHAMBU: ... And as the EFF, we are not going to participate in this process. You can go ahead and do your illegal things ... [Interjections]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No!

Mr NF SHIVHAMBU: And also, you are protecting a corrupt President, hon Jacob Zuma, so we are leaving. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, we have warned you before, don’t speak when you are not allowed to speak. [Interjections.]

Hon MEMBERS: Wow! [Applause.] [Laughter.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, the question before the House is that the amendment to the report ... [Inaudible.] ... of the majority ... [Interjections.] ... order hon members! Let us proceed with the work of the House. The question before the House is that the amendment to the report be accepted. The amendment from the opposition to the Chief Whip’s report be amended.

Hon MEMBERS: No!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Those in favour will say aye.

Hon MEMBERS: Aye!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Those against will say no.

Hon MEMBERS: No!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think the Nos have it.

The chief whip of the opposition: Deputy Speaker, the DA request a division, please.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: NO, no, no! Wait, wait, wait. Hon member, we have had a debate and there will be no declarations.

Mr M WATERS: Deputy Speaker, with all due respect, it is a declaration on the amendment. We haven’t had a debate on the amendments. We therefore appeals for a declaration on the amendments.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hon member! No, no. There has been a debate on this matter. The amendment is about the report before us and we can’t have another declaration. We will not have that.

Mr M WATERS: Deputy Speaker, the DA calls for a division, please.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: A division has been called and the bells will be rung for five minutes.

Division demanded.

The House divided.

Motion agreed to.

Report accordingly adopted.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Let’s restate the obvious. As we always do, members may only vote from their allocated seats when requested to do so. Members must simply indicate their vote by pressing the appropriate button below the “yes” “no” or “abstain” signs. If a member inadvertently presses the wrong button, the member may thereafter press the correct button. The last button pressed will be recorded as the member’s vote when voting session is closed by the chair. The question before the House is that the amendment as moved ... [Interjections.]

Mr M WATERS: Deputy Speaker ... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No you can’t do that. [Interjections.]

Mr M WATERS: ... I rise once more.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon member?

Mr M WATERS: May I address you? I rise once more on a point of order: There has been no debate on the amendment put before this House that we are bout to vote on. And members have a right to hear different views on the amendments. Therefore we are calling for a declaration on the amendments before the House. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I have ruled on that matter and I am in the middle of proceeding towards voting. I can’t retreat to go back to that. I am afraid that’s the Chair’s discretion.

Mr M WATERS: Yes, we should have the declarations before we vote.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No. We are proceeding with this. This is the Chair’s ... Ja.

Question put: That the amendment as moved by the Chief Whip of the Opposition be agreed to.

Division demanded.

The House divided.

AYES - 92: Alberts, A; Atkinson, P G; Bagraim, M; Baker, T E; Balindlela, Z B N; Basson, L J; Bergman, D; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Buthelezi, M G; Cardo, M J; Carter, D; Cassim, Y; Cebekhulu, R N; Chance, R W T; Davis, G R; De Kock, K; Dreyer, A M; Dudley, C; Edwards, J; Esterhuizen, J A; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Filtane, M L W; Gana, S M; Gqada, T; Hadebe, T Z; Hill-Lewis, G G; Hlengwa, M; Hoosen, M H; Horn, W; Hunsinger, C H H; James, L V; Jongbloed, Z; Kalyan, S V; Khubisa, N M; Kohler, D; Kruger, H C C; Kwankwa, N L S; Lees, R A; Lekota, M G P; Lorimer, J R B; Macpherson, D W; Mahumapelo, J M K; Maimane, M A; Majeke, C N; Majola, T R; Malatsi, M S; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Matsepe, C D; Maynier, D J; Mazzone, N W A; Mbhele, Z N; Mbinda, L R; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mcloughlin, A R; Meshoe, K R J; Mhlongo, T W; Mileham, K J; Mncwango, M A; Mokgalapa, S; Motau, S C; Msimang, C T; Mulder, C P; Nkomo, S J; Ntshayisa, L M; Ollis, I M; Robinson, D; Ross, D C; Selfe, J; Shelembe, M L; Shinn, M R; Singh, N; Sithole, K P; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D J; Swart, S N; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Terblanche, J F; Van Dalen, P; Van Damme, P T; Van Der Merwe, L L; Van Der Walt, D; Van Der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Volmink, H C; Walters, T C R; Waters, M.

NOES - 200: Abrahams, B L; Adams, F; Adams, P E; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Bapela, K O; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Booi, M S; Boroto, M G; Brown, L; Capa, R N; Capa, N; Carrim, Y I; Cele, M A; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Cronin, J P; Davies, R H; Didiza, A T; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dunjwa, M L; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gamede, D D; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Gina, N; Gumede, D M; Hanekom, D A; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Kalako, M U; Kekana, H B; Kekana, E; Kekana, C D; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khunou, N P; Kilian, J D; Koornhof, G W; Kubayi, M T; Landers, L T; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Loliwe, F S; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabe, P P; Mabija, L; Mabilo, S P; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlalela, A F; Mahlangu, J L; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlobo, M D; Maila, M S A; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Maluleke, B J; Manana, D P; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Maphatsoe, E R K; Mapulane, M P; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Maswanganyi, M J; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mbalula, F A; Mchunu, S; Mdakane, M R; Memela, T C; Mjobo, L N; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mogotsi, V P; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Morutoa, M R; Mosala, I; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motsoaledi, P A; Mthembu, J M; Mthembu, N; Mthethwa, E M; Mudau, A M; Muthambi, A F; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Nesi, B A; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nobanda, G N; November, N T; Ntombela, M L D; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nyambi, H V; Nzimande, B E; Oliphant, M N; Oliphant, G G; Pandor, G N M; Patel, E; Peters, E D; Phaahla, M J; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Radebe, B A; Radebe, J T; Radebe, G S; Ralegoma, S M; Ramaphosa, M C; Ramatlakane, L; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Scheepers, M A; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shabangu, S; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Sisulu, L N; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Skwatsha, M; Smith, V G; Sotyu, M M; Surty, M E; Thomson, B; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseke, G K; Tseli, R M; Tsoleli, S P; Tsotetsi, D R; Tuck, A; v R Koornhof, N J J; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Williams, A J; Xego-Sovita, S T; Yengeni, L E; Zokwana, S.

Question not agreed to.

Amendment accordingly negatived.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, the question before the House now is that the report of the committee as presented to us by the Chief Whip of the Majority Party be adopted.

Mr M WATERS: Deputy Speaker, the DA calls for a declaration on this item.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, we have had a debate and we will not allow a declaration. We are proceeding ... [Interjections.] Hon member?

Mr M WATERS: Deputy Speaker ... [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable ... [Interjections.]

Mr M WATERS: I have to stand up again. The matter before this House is of such national importance ... [Interjections.] ... therefore we cannot just have a whitewash of the report and exonerate the President of all wrong doing. We need to have declarations on this article. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I can’t enter into the merits, or otherwise, of the matter before the House. Our responsibility is to preside over this. The only way we can do this is that we proceed with the debate that has been taking place with the importance it deserves. The House saw it fit to have it put on the agenda for debate today. We have had the report and the proposed amendment read to us and we are now going through the process of voting. And that is what we are going to do now. The hon members have many other opportunities to continue to debate this matter.

The HONOURABLE MEMBER: When, after the voting?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, the presiding officer ... This is Rule 81 on the declaration of vote:

The presiding officer may at anytime after a question has been fully put, permit one members of each political party to state on behalf of his or her party in a speech not exceeding three minutes the reasons why the party is in favour or not of the question.

This matter, in my humble opinion, has been debated. Hon members, I therefore suggest that we proceed.

Ms S V KALYAN: May I address you on exactly on the same point, Deputy Speaker.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, you may do so, hon member.

Ms S V KALYAN: Your discretion is truly respected, but it is our considered opinion – and I speak on behalf of the DA – that you failed in you duty to allow a declaration of vote on the amendment. And in doing so, it is our considered opinion that it is a dereliction of duty to preside in a fair and impartial manner.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes. I respect your opinion, hon member, to which you are entitled. I really respect your opinion. [Interjections.]

Ms M T KUBAYI: Deputy Speaker, I rise on a point of order: In terms of the rules what the DA is flabbergasting. What they are doing is wasting our time ... [Interjections.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: What is the point of order?

Ms M T KUBAYI: The point of order is that what is happening is unprocedural. They are trying to challenge the rule in open. [Interjections.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: What rule is it, Deputy Speaker?

Ms M T KUBAYI: They are trying to challenge the rule. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Point of order!

Ms M T KUBAYI: I don’t understand what the Chief Whip of the Opposition is doing. Why is he behaving in the manner that he is doing? He needs to learn to relax and allow us to speak. This is not his Parliament. [Interjections.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Point of order!

Ms M T KUBAYI: We all are members here and we are allowed to speak. Deputy Speaker, can you allow me to speak because he is interrupting me. I am not done with my point. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Proceed. Finish your point, hon member.

Ms M T KUBAYI: What I am raising here, Deputy Speaker, is that you have made a ruling, and the DA is challenging your rule which they know very well that it is unprocedural. My understanding is that what they are trying to do is not correct in terms of the rules. So, we request that you become decisive and be able to ... If they have a problem they must take it to the Rules ... [Interjections.]

Mr M WATERS: Point of order!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes.

Ms M T KUBAYI: ... Committee to challenge the ruling you have made.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Alright, hon member.

Mr M WATERS: Point of order, Deputy Speaker.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon member.

Mr M WATERS: Deputy Speaker, with respect. The hon member did not mention a single rule in her speech. I want to say again that when you expect us to rise we have got to find the rule and have it on hand, but an ANC member can get up and make a speech - basically a declaration - and is allowed to just do it as long as she wants. If you have to apply the rules, you better apply them fairly because that is exactly why this House degenerates.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, let us proceed with what we were doing here. I have made a ruling, with respect. Members feel strong about these matters. That happens sometimes. We do expect that sometimes our feeling can be very strong about matters that are before the House. In my opinion, frankly speaking, this matter has been debated fully and I would like to proceed with putting the question before the House.

Mr M WATERS: Deputy Speaker, can I address you on Rule 81, please. The Rule says, you may at anytime allow for declarations. So, the discretion is yours. We would like ... [Interjections.] ... Yes, yes, yes, don’t worry, I am English speaking and I understand what “may” means. But what we would like from you first on all, is a ruling from yourself on this matter; secondly, if I may, on the abases of the presiding officers here today, in particular yourself, Deputy Speaker, not long ago you read out a ruling about amendments to reports. And while the hon Steenhuisen was adhering to the ruling, you interrupted him and tried to stifle freedom of speech. That shows biasness on your own part. And by allowing a declaration here you will be redeeming yourself somewhat, not entirely, through allowing freedom of speech in this debate. I would ask you once again to reconsider and allow a declaration on the item put before this House.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I am afraid, I respect your views as I said, but I am not changing the ruling that I have made. You are not convincing me, in other words.

Mr L MBINDA: Deputy Speaker, the members of the ruling party are drowning the speaker by making noise. We can’t even hear what the hon member is saying. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members of the ruling party! Hon members, hon members, order! [Interjections.]

Mr L MBINDA: This is how they behave. Listen! [Laughter.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, this is ... Please be ordered! Hon members ... [Interjections.]

Mr L MBINDA: They don’t stop because they know you are one of them. Listen, they are making noise. [Interjections.]

The HONOURABLE MEMBER: Dula fase! [Please take a seat!]

Mr L MBINDA: The only thing they are know is to make noise and use the majority voice to drown me. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay, hon member, let’s proceed.

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Point of order, Deputy Speaker.

Mr L MBINDA: I thought you will stop them. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, there is a person on his feet over there, please, man.

Mr L MBINDA: They are making noise, stop them. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Alright, sit down, hon member. Okay, take your seat. Thank you very much. Hon members, please just allow us to proceed.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Point of order, Deputy Speaker. I want to highlight on the basis of this vote, that if it proceeds in the manner that it is, I am left with no option, but to table a legal action against your party tomorrow in the Western Cape High Court. So, I need to make a declaration right here today. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, please. Hon members, I would like to remind members that they may only vote from their allocated seats when requested to do so. [Interjections.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY: On a point of order!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Chief Whip?

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY: Deputy Speaker, nobody has asked for the division. They just rejected the report, but they didn’t ask for a division. We don’t have to vote.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members?

Mr N SINGH: Hon Deputy Speaker, may I address you. If can recall you haven’t put the question yet on the report. And we request you to do that. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hon member, you have forgotten. I did.

Division demanded.

The House divided.

AYES - 199: Abrahams, B L; Adams, F; Adams, P E; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Bapela, K O; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Booi, M S; Boroto, M G; Bro wn, L; Capa, R N; Capa, N; Carrim, Y I; Cele, M A; Chikunga, L S; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Cronin, J P; Davies, R H; Didiza, A T; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dunjwa, M L; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gamede, D D; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Gina, N; Gumede, D M; Hanekom, D A; Holomisa, S P; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, M; Kalako, M U; Kekana, H B; Kekana, E; Kekana, C D; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khunou, N P; Kilian, J D; Koornhof, G W; Kubayi, M T; Landers, L T; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Loliwe, F S; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabe, P P; Mabija, L; Mabilo, S P; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlalela, A F; Mahlangu, J L; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlobo, M D; Maila, M S A; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makondo, T; Makwetla, S P; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Maluleke, B J; Manana, D P; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Maphatsoe, E R K; Mapulane, M P; Masango, M S A; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Maswanganyi, M J; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mbalula, F A; Mchunu, S; Mdakane, M R; Memela, T C; Mjobo, L N; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mogotsi, V P; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B E E; Morutoa, M R; Mosala, I; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motsoaledi, P A; Mthembu, J M; Mthembu, N; Mthethwa, E M; Mudau, A M; Muthambi, A F; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Nesi, B A; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nobanda, G N; November, N T; Ntombela, M L D; Nxesi, T W; Nyalungu, R E; Nyambi, H V; Nzimande, B E; Oliphant, M N; Oliphant, G G; Pandor, G N M; Patel, E; Peters, E D; Phaahla, M J; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Radebe, B A; Radebe, J T; Radebe, G S; Ralegoma, S M; Ramaphosa, M C; Ramatlakane, L; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Scheepers, M A; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shabangu, S; Shope-Sithole, S C N; Sibande, M P; Sisulu, L N; Siwela, E K; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Skwatsha, M; Smith, V G; Sotyu, M M; Surty, M E; Thomson, B; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseke, G K; Tseli, R M; Tsoleli, S P; Tsotetsi, D R; Tuck, A; v R Koornhof, N J J; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Williams, A J; Xego-Sovita, S T; Yengeni, L E; Zokwana, S.

NOES - 92: Alberts, A; Atkinson, P G; Bagraim, M; Baker, T E; Balindlela, Z B N; Basson, L J; Bergman, D; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Buthelezi, M G; Cardo, M J; Carter, D; Cassim, Y; Cebekhulu, R N; Chance, R W T; Davis, G R; De Kock, K; Dreyer, A M; Dudley, C; Edwards, J; Esterhuizen, J A; Figg, M J; Figlan, A M; Filtane, M L W; Gana, S M; Gqada, T; Hadebe, T Z; Hill-Lewis, G G; Hlengwa, M; Hoosen, M H; Horn, W; Hunsinger, C H H; James, L V; Jongbloed, Z; Kalyan, S V; Khubisa, N M; Kohler, D; Kruger, H C C; Kwankwa, N L S; Lees, R A; Lekota, M G P; Lorimer, J R B; Macpherson, D W; Mahumapelo, J M K; Maimane, M A; Majeke, C N; Majola, T R; Malatsi, M S; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Matsepe, C D; Maynier, D J; Mazzone, N W A; Mbhele, Z N; Mbinda, L R; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mcloughlin, A R; Meshoe, K R J; Mhlongo, T W; Mileham, K J; Mncwango, M A; Mokgalapa, S; Motau, S C; Msimang, C T; Mulder, C P; Nkomo, S J; Ntshayisa, L M; Ollis, I M; Robinson, D; Ross, D C; Selfe, J; Shelembe, M L; Shinn, M R; Singh, N; Sithole, K P; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D J; Swart, S N; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Terblanche, J F; Van Dalen, P; Van Damme, P T; Van Der Merwe, L L; Van Der Walt, D; Van Der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Volmink, H C; Walters, T C R; Waters, M.

Motion agreed to.

Report accordingly adopted.

Question put: That the motion moved by the Chief Whip of the Majority Party be agreed to.

Division demanded.

The House divided.

Ms L YENGENI: I made a mistake there. My mic did not work. [Interjections.] Is it right?

Motion agreed to.

Report accordingly adopted.

CONSIDERATION OF INTERIM REPORT OF JOINT AD HOC COMMITTEE ON PROBING VIOLENCE AGAINST FOREIGN NATIONALS ON REQUEST FOR EXTENSION OF REPORTING DEADLINE

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORTY: I move that the ad hoc committee report on the violence against foreign nationals be agreed to as requested.

There was no debate.

Motion agreed to.

Report accordingly adopted.

GROWING ECONOMIC CRISIS FACING SOUTH AFRICA

(Subject for Discussion)

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon members, bagaetsho dumelang. [fellow South Africans, good afternoon].

I think it is important for me to declare upfront that, now that the ANC has passed through the white wash of the report, we will tomorrow be tabling an action to have this report declared irrational and set aside. That is the promise I make to the people of this country, that this ANC government has no moral authority to speak of, and is bankrupt at best. [Applause.]

What is critical to acknowledge is that the rights of the freedom contained in our Constitution are being denied to our fellow South Africans. True freedom really requires not just political and social freedom, but an economic emancipation. Yet, South Africa is facing an unprecedented economic crisis. The economic growth for 2014 fell to 1,4% and is forecast to grow at only 2% for 2015.

The most recent manufacturing data shows a decrease in production of 1,2% quarter-on-quarter for the second quarter of 2015, following a contraction of 0,5% in the first quarter. The rand is weakening and faces a crisis, and yet even though the Cosatu, has called for it for some years ago, clearly they failed to use it, and it has shown no effect on stimulating an export-led growth.

Today, South Africa is still a net importer. Meanwhile, hon members, for the ordinary South Africans the cost of living continues to rise. But this economic crisis is really about one thing and one thing alone; it’s about jobs or the lack of them. Without jobs, freedom is limited. The new inequality in South Africa today, is between those who have work and those who don’t have work.

The real cost of the economic crisis today, is the freedom of the 8,4 million South Africans who do not have work. Plainly stated, one in three South Africans is unable to find work. One in three South Africans has the lack or means to an opportunity to provide for themselves or their families. But only in greater concern, is that two out of three of the unemployed are young South Africans, 70% of these being young, black, South Africans, who are not enjoying the benefits of their freedom.

Motlatsamodulasetilo, ke batla go tlhagisa jana gore, mo mafelong a beke, ke ne ke ile kwa Limpopo. Batho ba rona ba mo Aforikaborwa ba a sokola; puso ya ga Moporesidente Jacob Zuma e dira gore ba sokole. Puso eno, e paletswe ke go tlisa ditšhono tsa ditiro mo bathong. Ba tlhagisitse fa ba sa kgone go thapiwa mo ditirong le fa ba na le digerata le didipoloma. Se ba se itseng ke gore, gore batho ba thapiwe mo tirong, ba tshwanetse go ikgokaganya le lekoko la ga Moporesidente Zuma. (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[Deputy Chairperson, I want to put it on record that during the weekend, I was in Limpopo. Our fellow South Africans are struggling; Jacob Zuma’s government is making them struggle. This government has failed to provide job opportunities for the people. They have told me that they cannot get jobs even though they have diplomas and degrees. What they know is that in order for them to progress, they must be affiliated with President Zuma’s party.]

I want to highlight, hon members, that this economic crisis did not happen because of apartheid or Jan Van Riebeeck, but it’s because of President angazi, [I don’t know,] Jacob Zuma, who has failed the South Africans. In fact, since the President, Jacob Zuma, has come into office, those who are having an ability to have worked, has risen by 30%; that is, since he took office. His promises and plans neither put food on the table nor pay for an education; while the corruption of his government and his ANC cronies deprives the people of this country the basic services.

What is worse is that, last week the President called an unprecedented press conference in the history of his Presidency. He did this simply to tell the South Africans an update on the state of the nation. You know, wilfully we waited as South Africans hoping for something to be announced, instead, the President told the people of South Africa that nyaa, re sa ntse re tsamaya sentle [no, all is well].

I’m afraid, Mr President, nothing is going well; South Africans are facing a crisis of unemployment; and this is primarily your fault. Ultimately, what is true is that he came and took a responsibility that; in fact, we have a crisis before us. He cannot deny this, for even the documents released by the ANC for the National General Council, NGC, confirms that there is an economic crisis in South Africa.

According to the latest World Economic Outlook by the International Monetary Fund, IMF, over next two years, emerging market and developing economies are projected to grow by 4,45% while sub-Saharan Africa is expected to grow by 4,7%. Other countries are making progress at a rate that is faster than us, but we, as the South Africans, can’t. Thanks to this ANC government.

The fact of the matter is that, under the ANC’s government, Minister Junior Jacob Zuma-Gigaba introduced job-killing visa regulations, and now he attempts to repair the damage through another ineffectual Inter-Ministerial Committee. It is under this government’s watch that the energy crisis has gone from bad to worse.

In fact, Medupi and Kusile are now delayed by two years. People can see what is important for the ANC when they look around. It’s Nkandla, because, as long as they defend number one, they are doing their jobs; but when they are talking about the economy, the other things seems to be much better. For, ultimately, the South Africans are suffering with lack of work.

But the President will account for this, for it is under his government’s watch that the energy crisis has gone from bad to worse, and ultimately, no economy can grow unless it is energy secured. It is under this government that we are seeing water shedding in communities on top of load shedding as the infrastructure collapses under the mismanagement of this government. It is under this government’s watch that the investors have been moving away by threats of expropriation and uncertainty regarding the empowerment policies.

Minister Rob Davies has tabled the Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment, BBBEE, codes, which he was then forced to review and clarify. Now, today, it is blatantly clear that BBBEE was designed by the ANC, currently to empower those who are politically connected to the ANC. This is a crisis of this government making. And when we, in this House, ask about the extent of job losses in this country, it became quite clear when the President came here and said, angazi [I do not know.]

So, I believe, that this government is denying the South Africans its freedom. It has a bloated Cabinet with nine Ministries, but it seems quite clear that they cannot solve this economic crisis. So, let me be frank, the only way that we will solve the economic crisis, is by replacing the members on this side by the members of the DA, so that we can take South Africa forward. [Applause.]

The South African economy, in our view, has potential to reach between 5% and 8%. And this, ultimately, requires few things that we need to do. We need to solve the energy crisis that is crippling South Africa by breaking the Eskom monopoly and opening up the grid to the independent power producers. We need to reject the benefit scheme of R1 trillion nuclear deal for the ANC, that has been put forward by President Zuma.

Secondly, we must take an action to rid the economy of the legislative and regulatory constraints in key industries, such as suspending the job-killing visa regulations and amending the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act, to give greater long-term certainty to the investors. But above all of this, we must make sure that we create an environment that is sustainable for small businesses to be able to grow.

We must recognise that the heroes in South Africa are those that create jobs, not the ones who are shedding them. We must also make it easier for micro enterprise to proceed. We must, and I will pick the fight against the unions who ultimately have these inflexible labour regulations that protects the rights of those who work at the expense of those who are unemployed.

The damage caused by the South African Democratic Teacher’s Union, Sadtu, and Cosatu, is an untold story of this economic crisis. Hon members, ultimately, when we take over this government we will repeal the Labour Relations Act, such as those relating to collective bargaining, close shop agreements and minimum threshold for minimum representation. These are key aspects of the law that are destroying the people from being able to find work.

Finally, it becomes crucial, that we look at expanding the benefits enjoyed by the companies in the special economic zones to the whole country so that South Africa becomes a hub for entrepreneurship to grow and for jobs to be created. The economy is like a living organism that will only grow and flourish under the right conditions. We are showing that here, in the Western Cape, that where we govern, unemployment is the lowest in the country.

The government, therefore, has a responsibility to provide leadership. Ultimately, we must, if we are going to create jobs, to ensure that we have a reliable infrastructure, a skilled labour force and legislative and regulative framework that supports and incentivise job creation; and policy certainty that attracts investment. The solution lies in replacing this corrupt government with truly a champion and an inclusive economy.

The DA government will clearly make its mission to unlock the potential of our economy and respond to the needs of the human face of our economic crisis. We would provide leadership for this economy, for those who are desperately looking, so that we have an accountable and competent government that serves its people and fulfils their hope. Next year, the South Africans are actually having a profound opportunity of voting out the likes of Junior Jacob Zuma and replacing them with the government that will serve the people; and they will remove you. [Time Expired.] Thank you. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: Hon members, fellow South Africans, challenging times and difficult problems require insight, steady leadership and purposeful action. When the ship of state is faced with turbulent or stormy conditions; neither panic nor petty point scoring is helpful. We have just had a lesson in point scoring by the Leader of the Opposition, whose speech, unsurprisingly but nonetheless disappointingly, is rich in rhetoric and insult, but poor in insight and credible answers.

To return to the stormy conditions metaphor, there are two responses to the conditions we face, hon members. The first says: “We see a global storm coming, let’s blame government and whip the ANC with it.” The other approach says: “We see stormy conditions, let’s steer carefully, keep the crew united and get beyond the storm.”

So where are we now? And what are the turbulence or economic storms that we need to navigate carefully?

The South African economy is growing, but not fast enough. Our current projected growth rate of 2% is below what is needed to realise our vision of 11 million new jobs by 2030. There are economies growing faster than South Africa, like Ethiopia, India, Malaysia, China and Tanzania. [Interjections.] But there are also economies growing more slowly than South Africa, like - according to the latest, International Monetary Fund, IMF, data - Germany, France, Argentina, Brazil and Russia.

Jobs growth in South Africa has been robust and strong in the past year and in the past quarter. Indeed, over the past 12 months, we have seen 563 000 new jobs created, with construction and agriculture leading the pack. By the end of June this year, there were just over 15,6 million South Africans in employment, the highest ever. Jobs growth over the past two years has been faster than GDP growth, pointing to a more labour-absorbing growth spurt. But these global storms, particularly in mining and the steel industry, can affect the wider economy and jobs. We need to recognise that and manage it.

Those storms originate outside the country, in the commodity markets of Asia and Europe, but principally, from the slowdown of China’s extraordinary growth, and with it, the demand for minerals, steel and oil. This has seen prices of our major mining exports – iron ore, coal, platinum and gold fall by an average of 50% since 2011.

In the last few years to June 2015, the international iron ore price fell by 67%, coal prices fell by 54%, platinum by 39% and gold by 13%.

These four products employ 425 000 mine workers, they account for one quarter of South Africa’s exports and they have been thus far an important source of growth for South Africa. Not surprisingly, other economies with major mining industries are also dealing with serious challenges.

Some 20 000 mining jobs in the coming year are under threat in Australia, whose growth rate is also projected to decline. While the United States mining sector lost 15 000 jobs in April - its fourth straight monthly loss; Canada lost 19 700 jobs in the resources sector. Anglo American reported a $3 billion loss, mainly due to its flagship iron ore project in Minas-Rio in Brazil, compared with net income of $1,5 billion a year ago.

So, this commodity storm and that commodity storm is a major cause that two countries in Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa, Brics, which are Russia and Brazil, expect their economies to be in recession this year. It is the main reason that the IMF last month downgraded growth projections for sub-Saharan Africa by almost a full percentage point.

The slowdown in Chinese demand has contributed to a glut of steel in global markets, leading to severe price and profitability pressures on the steel industry. These two global storms, in the mineral and steel sectors, are what we have to navigate with as little damage as possible, recognising that production and job losses in these sectors can have a multiplier effect on the economy.

So what are we doing to respond to these? Firstly, we are maintaining a high level of public investment in infrastructure, which is a true game changer for the economy. We are spending close to a quarter trillion a year or R1 billion every working day on economic, industrial and social infrastructure. The Brics New Development Bank is a major potential source of new funding for South African and African infrastructure.

Secondly, we are expanding trade with the rest of Africa, particularly exports of South African-made cars, machinery, iron and steel and food products.

Hon members will be interested to note that exports to the rest of the continent now account for 244 000 direct jobs here in South Africa. It has been estimated as much as 885 000 total jobs, if you take the economic multiplier. Last year, Zambia was our number one global export market for televisions, Zimbabwe for plastic products, Mozambique for clothing and the Democratic Republic of Congo for electrical equipment. The Leader of the Opposition will be well advised to acquaint himself with the economic data.

Thirdly, we are implementing actions in the domestic economy, summed up in the nine-point plan announced by the President in the state of the nation address in February. The nine points are: Resolving the energy challenges through five practical actions, including cogeneration and new Independent Power Producers, IPPs, and completing the energy build programme; revitalising the agriculture and agro-processing value chain; advancing beneficiation through adding value to our mineral wealth; more effective implementation of a higher impact Industrial Policy Action Plan; unlocking the potential of small business, co-operatives and township and rural enterprises; stabilising the labour market; scaling up private sector investment; growing the oceans economy and diversifying and boosting the economy through science, technology and innovation, expanding transport, water and information and communications technology, ICT, infrastructure and reforming state-owned companies.

To respond to the steel industry’s problems, we fast-tracked a tariff investigation by the trade authorities on three steel products. We completed a competition commission probe into steel pricing by the dominant company. We extended short-term industrial funding of R150 million to one steel mill to give it the space to restructure rather than to close its doors.

We appointed a panel of steel industry experts to identify options for steel that would not damage downstream factory users. Finally, we are meeting with business and labour to identify further steps to be taken. To respond to the mining industry’s problems, we convened a dialogue with stakeholders to consider options to reduce or avoid job losses. We are investing in technologies and innovation to boost demand and localisation, such as platinum fuel cell pilot projects. We have initiated a Mining Operation Phakisa to address the future of the industry.

To respond to the clothing and textile industry’s challenges, we implemented a tariff increase on finished products at the start of the previous administration. We set a reference price on imported clothing to identify smuggling and import fraud. We created a competitiveness fund that has already invested over R3 billion in new technologies and work organisation to boost output and jobs.

More generally, the Industrial Development Corporation, IDC, expanded its industrial funding envelope over the past five years, particularly in green energy. While the official opposition calls for more support for green energy, the IDC put some R14 billion into the Independent Power Producer programme that has already seen almost 2 000 megawatts of energy coming onto the grid.

The IDC is now focussing on expanding investment in manufacturing, agroprocessing and new industries. During a time of declining mineral exports in dollar value, our auto exports have actually accelerated since 2011 and now constitute one of our top five exports, speaking to the success of the partnership built with investors.

To boost competitiveness, the competition authorities have acted against monopolies and cartels in sectors such as fertilisers, bread and poultry, steel, construction and telecommucations. To promote partnership, the Deputy President has led discussions with the business community and trade unions on reducing workplace conflict, including the role of strike ballots, action against violence in strikes and picketing rules. To reduce income inequality in the workplace, proposals for a national minimum wage are under discussion.

The DA often cloak its rhetoric as support for small business but its recent five-point plan that the hon Maimane referred to, calls, among others, for amendments to the labour laws to, and I like to quote, “relieve some of the restrictions on bigger employers.” And I didn’t make a mistake. Let me read it again and I quote, “relieve some of the restrictions on bigger employers wishing to dismiss employees” and, I quote, “generous exemptions from labour legislation” in industrial zones - what hon Maimane calls picking a fight.

You see, hon Maimane, where we differ very clearly is that in the economic storms that the economy may face, the DA calls for industrial war against the organised working class; while the ANC takes steps to build industrial partnerships between business and labour. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

To boost youth employment, government is revamping its skills and entrepreneurship support programmes to make them more effective. The President convened a meeting with the business community 10 days ago at which stronger partnerships on skills development and work placement were considered.

You see, hon Maimane, the DA claims a magic wand on youth jobs, if only it could be in power. It cites the Western Cape measures on youth as the hon Maimane did a few minutes ago. Of course we welcome provincial efforts to support youth employment, but intention and effect are not always the same thing.

In the past three months, 5 000 more young people became unemployed in the Western Cape in spite of the incentive packages. More generally, in this same three months from April to June this year, the Western Cape lost 37 000 jobs in agriculture, 32 000 jobs in manufacturing, 20 000 jobs in the government sector and 7 000 jobs in finance and business services. [Interjections.]

No doubt the DA will say this reflects complex realities. Yes, we agree that we should not abuse jobs numbers for narrow political point scoring. We will work as national government to help the Western Cape, like other provinces, - to boost youth employment, because these are our young people. All of us as political representatives across all the political parties will do that. [Applause.] A critic has been described as someone with opinions on the way ahead but who can’t drive a car. We call it backseat driving. [Interjections.]

Fellow South Africans, as we navigate our way through the minerals and steel turbulence and storms generated by falling global demand, we need to pull South Africans together, address domestic challenges such as energy and labour-business partnerships and speak with one voice.

Four days ago, government convened a meeting with social partners that discussed these pressures and a jobs summit was proposed to identify what each constituent can do to mitigate these pressures. That, and the practical steps that I outlined, are our responses to these global pressures to our efforts to promote development, jobs and inclusive growth. I thank you. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Chair, earlier, we allow the US Parliament to vote on protection of one individual for the corruption that has happened in Nkandla, and the ruling party had the three lines Whip, all its members were here, but now we are discussing an unfolding crisis in the economy, only behalf of them are here. Then we begin to wonder what the real purpose of the ruling party in terms of ruling and managing this country.

The reality is that we have got an economic crisis that is caused mainly because of the declining demand in a mining sector of the mineral resources. The volumes of platinum, iron ore, gold and coal that were demanded by, particularly China, is declining and is going to decline further. And because those Export Price, EP, were being produced for profit purposes and for exchange, it means that their productions are no longer necessary. It will lead to the closure of many mines. You indicated two weeks ago that already in the mining sector, 23 000 jobs have been lost, 23 months in the mining sector. That means that 23 000 breadwinners can no longer generate income for their families. Twenty-three thousand families do not have anyone to provide for their basic necessities, and that rate is not about to decline. It is going to continue. It might even lead to 200 000 jobs lost in the South African economy. That is a crisis. It is going to affect all other sectors of the economy. What is the ruling party doing? It is burying its head in the sand and ignoring the fact that we are in the middle of an unfolding crisis in the mining sector, and we have been saying this, a mining is a critical component of South Africa’s economy. Historically and now, it employs close to million people. If it’s accepted and disrupted, many families, the whole economy might even lead to a point of collapse, but what is to be done, what is to happen, we have said to you before and we are saying to you again that you need to take ownership of the mines and mineral resources, the actual process of extraction of mineral resources. [Applause.] We need to nationalise the mines in order to have proper industrialisation and beneficiation locally.

You can’t beneficiate and industrialise what you do not own. You can’t rely on the multinational companies to give those minerals because they are only interested in the exchange and making of quick profits. And when you speak about industrialisation, you must understand the important component, hon Davies, of protection of South Africa’s industries. A huge number of products that come into South Africa are not tarift. They just enter the country, plastic products, furniture and a variety of other things. Why do we have such a situation where you do not protect labour absorptive sectors of the economy?

We have been saying to you that diversify the economy by protecting strategic sectors of daily consumables, but you are not doing so. I heinously do not know what else you need us to do? Today, we were listening in the Standing Committee on Finance that there is more money which the Reserve Bank has reported goes to Litzenburg, a country of about 600 000 people than it goes to Germany, which is one of South Africa’s biggest trading partners. We have been saying to you since we arrived here in Parliament that you have got a crisis of profit shifting of transfer pricing of base erosion. Still today, you are refusing to illegalise tax avoidance. All this companies are doing all these things and you are not listening. I really do not know what we have to do to ... Maybe we need to prayer because you are really ignorant of just basic things in terms of ... Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon House Chairperson, hon members, our future, freedom, dignity and democracy depend on our ability to work. Therefore, it is imperative that we get South Africa working.

Once again, we are called upon to reflect upon the general state of our economy and, in particular the rate at which youth unemployment is attutinal sits at 70%, thus, we are confronted with the question of “How did we get here?

The 2008 economic meltdown cannot be fully blamed for the crisis which we find ourselves in today. We are in this mess today because of the inconsistent incoherent policy direction the ANC has pursued since 1994.

It is not the economic meltdown that derailed Growth, Employment and Redistribution, Gear, RDP or Accelerated and Shared growth Initiation for South Africa, Asgisa, but that was the ANC at the behest of its Alliance Masters.

It is not the economic meltdown that reneged on the Youth Wage Subsidy, but rather it was the ANC at the behest of its Alliance Masters. It is not the economic meltdown that is derailing the National Development Plan, but rather, it is once more the ANC at the behest of its Alliance Masters.

This therefore begs the question, who is actually running this country? The ANC has become a shadow of its former self, and has ceded its electoral mandate to manage the affairs of this country to the SA Community Party, SACP, and Congress of SA Trade Unions, Cosatu, who when they sneeze, we all catch a cold.

We are in this mess today because Mr ANC is playing “footsey-footsey” with Mrs SACP and Mistress Cosatu. The Tripartite Alliance is a political polygamy of doom and gloom.

Most South Africans are struggling to get by. They are without jobs, and they are dependent on the state and less on themselves. We are increasingly becoming a welfare state, contrary to the mission of being a developmental state. We are no longer a nation at work. We are a nation out of work. The sound values of self-help and self-reliance have been replaced by a growing and systematic culture of dependency.

Unemployment, youth unemployment in particular, is a ticking time bomb and now sits at 34,9%. We have reached ground zero. Infect, we have reached crisis point.

To grow our economy, the IFP proposes these very urgent interventions that we must balance job creation and job protection by revising labour laws to allow more flexibility, and reduce red-tape. This will regenerate investment, new jobs and growth; take out the politics of the unions out of the economy based because we cannot be held to ransom by the unions. We should focus on developing skills through suitable skills, which are for today’s market through the funding of training programmes and learnerships. We must provide suitable support for small and medium-sized businesses and incentivise those that employ and train women and youth. The Youth Wage Subsidy should be implemented in its original form, and we should create mentorship programmes through which local and international businesses can incubate youth businesses; establish Special Economic Zones, particularly in rural areas, to ensure communities become self-sustainable and we must create tax incentives and low tax zones in those areas to stimulate growth, jobs and development. The education system must be overhauled as a matter of urgency. I thank you.

Mr M L SHELEMBE: Hon Chairperson, hon Members of Parliament, South Africa is heading towards becoming an interventionist development state where the governing party believes it can head your future political defeat by destroying democratic institution in a desperate bid to clean to power.

Right now government is battling a range of social and economic ills in including rampant unemployment and crime, rising in a quality, poor education and a process of low growth in the black middle class. Yes, we are in an economic crisis which is growing. The question we ask is: How do we stop this economic crisis from worsening?

The solution to our deepening economic crisis is not simply, nor will it happen overnight. The damage done by the ANC government runs too dep’t for quick faces, and in short term, we need to take a serious look at our current labour legislation. Labour policy must balance the protection of workers rights with the need to build greater flexibility into the labour market to make it easier for the business to create jobs.

We also need to establish a skills development system that will be able to support future economic growth with the main focus on our youth. Equally important, we must promote Small Medium and Micro-Sized Enterprises, which can serve as the engine for economic growth and job creation in South Africa.

In a medium term, South Africa needs to become more competitive in the global market. To do so, we must priorities manufacturing and add value to our commodities, which are currently be exported in raw form and then imported in the form of consumer goods.

We must also expand rural development opportunities not by building malls, but by providing incentives for light industries and manufacturers to establish development hubs that will benefit local communities and helps stem the tight of rapid urbanisation. In the long term, we need to invest in quality education of our children with top priority be given to mathematics and science. Our education system must be gear towards promoting entrepreneurs. In short, we need to cultivate a South Africa of job givers rather than focus on job seekers.

In addition, we need to systematically reduce reliance on social grants and create an ethos of working for an income related wage for handouts from the government.

Our current level of social spending is not sustainable in the long term, and to threat much needed money away from infrastructure development.

To conclude, if we wish to arrest economic crisis and place South Africa on a rout of economic growth and prosperity, we need to develop our single greatest national asset that is human capital. We must invest in our youth today if we want to secure the economic future of our beloved country. This will not happen under the leadership of an ANC government. The time shortage has come and a time is now. I thank you.

Mr D MAYNIER: Chairperson, we too easily forget that millions of people suffer everyday in South Africa. They suffer because they do not have food and shelter, and they feel unsafe. They do not have food and shelter, and feel unsafe because they do not have jobs. And because they do not have jobs, they have no dignity, independence and no freedom. This is the reality of millions of people who suffer everyday in South Africa.

Yet, President Jacob Zuma tells us that it is not all doom and gloom. Well, that is not what the hon Minister of Finance was thinking when he warned that low levels of economic growth and high levels of unemployment are the “new normal”. The fact is that the economy is stuck in a low growth path and is forecast to grow at rates well below the 5,4% every year envisaged in the National Development Plan; Foreign direct investment is declining, inflation is rising; and the national debt is spiralling from R500 billion to R1,6 trillion and to R2,2 trillion by 2017.

The large current account deficit makes us vulnerable and an honourary member of the fragile five, and now the troubled ten. In the end, 7,6 million people who would like a job, but cannot find a job, or would like a job but have given up looking for jobs, are unemployed. What this means, in the end, is that 7,6 million people, many of them young people, live without dignity, independence and freedom in South Africa.

Panicking, President Zuma called a press conference last week in order to provide an update on the work done since the state of the nation address on 12 February 2015. This was a perfect opportunity for him to take concrete action to reverse his economic policy, which is killing investment, economic growth and jobs in South Africa. Instead, he focused on the process, rather than outcome, announcing the formation of - you guessed it - new Inter-Ministerial committees, new task teams and new working groups.

He could have, simply, announced, there and then, that the new visa regulations would be scrapped, or the labour laws would be relaxed, but he did not do so. That would actually boost economic growth and create jobs. In the end he did not do so. Why did he not do so? Because, the root cause of the economic problem in South Africa is a political problem. What we need is clear policy focusing on growing the economy and creating jobs. However, what we have is policy uncertainty caused by deep divisions between and within the ANC, SACP and Cosatu.

President Zuma tells us that the National Development Plan is the policy of government. However, Deputy Minister of Public Works, Jeremy Cronin, tells us that the National Development Plan is more of a vision. Now, the ANC tells us that the National Development Plan is, in fact, simply, a living document not cast in stone. We have the hon Minister for Economic Development saying, “create jobs by fixing the drains” but then the Minister of Finance saying, “we don’t have money to fix the drains”. What this illustrates in the end is that the biggest binding constraint on the economy is politics, rather than economics. Unless we get the politics right, we will never get the economics right.

That is why more and more young people, who want jobs but cannot find them, understand that you can have high rates of economic growth, or you can have an ANC-led government, but you cannot have both. More and more young people realise that you can have low levels of unemployment, or you can have an ANC-led government, but you cannot have both. More and more young people realise that they do not have a job because President Zuma does have a job; and that as long as President Zuma has a job, they will not have a job. That is why more and more young people, who want jobs but cannot find theme, are choosing to vote for freedom, fairness and opportunity in South Africa. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr N L S KWANKWA: Sihlalo, masiqale sithi ndikhumbula ukuba uPeter Drukker, obhala iincwadi zolwawulo nobunkokheli [management and leadership], wakhe wathetha into yokuba ... (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[Mr N L S KWANKWA: Chairperson, let us first make the point that Peter Drukker, who writes books on management and leadership, once said that ...]

... leadership is about ensuring that the ladder is leaning against the right wall. I think in some respect ...

... kufuneka sivume ukuba ... [... we have to agree that ...]

... the ladder is leaning against the right wall. Remember, we always talk about the issue of intervention in particular and the importance of state intervention in developmental economy. When we are debating the issue in the Standing Committee on Finance recently about noncommercial mandates and how expensive it is to fund some of the noncommercial mandates, especially in some of the parastatals and state-owned enterprises, SOEs. One of the issues were raised was - maybe the time has come for government ...

... ukuba aqwalasele umcimbi ofana nokuba, umzekelo ... [... to consider, for instance, the fact that ...]

... there might be issues where you’ll find that the rational for intervention in some of the sectors and subsectors is not as strong as it was in the past. Therefore, we must allow the private sector to play its role then, meaning that it is an issue about rationalisation. We have also spoken about ... [Interjections.]

Mr M L W FILTANE: Chair, on a point of order.

The CHAIRPERSON (Ms MG Boroto:) Will you please take your seat, hon member. Hon Filtane, what is your point of order?

Mr M L W FILTANE: The debate is on and the hon Minister is very busy on his phone, not even listening. Is that parliamentary?

The CHAIRPERSON (Ms MG Boroto) Hon members, the phone is not allowed in the House. That is unparliamentary.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: Oh, well, siyabulela [we thank you.] But, I think the issue - I have indeed lost the rhythm – but we thank him very much that point of order. I think ...

... eyona nto ibalulekileyo ... [... what is very important ...]

... is when we talk about the issue of economy and the crisis we are facing, should it be melodramatic and go on and say turning and turning in the widening gyre. Things falls apart, the centre cannot hold; or should we be saying and asking the questions that says in some of the challenges we face, like for example, in renewable energy, I am aware that there are plans underway to try and address some of the challenges that are experienced in former homelands in particular. However, I am not aware of plans that are made to make sure that young people, in particular, and youth own small business enterprises, play a critical role in that sector. I know it is also an issue that has to do with skills development in general.

Remember, if one wants to grow the economy it is a matter of business confidence. If you talk about business confidence, it is about leadership and governance.

Xa ndiza kuthetha ngoKhongolose ndiza kubalisa ngebali likasokhetye, intsomi eyayibaliswa ngelaa xesha sasisakhula. Enye into kukho ingxaki yokugcwala koosokhetye ngoku. Usokhetye kaloku wayezama ukulawula laa madoda ayesilwa ngesonka. Wathi endaweni yokuba alamle wamane naye esiqhekeza isonka esitya amane esibeke esikalini kanti ngelo xesha uyasigqiba. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[Before I talk about the ANC, I am going to narrate the story of Sokhetye, a fable that was told when we were growing up. Another problem is that there are now too many Sokhetyes around. Sokhetye was trying to mediate between two men who were arguing over bread. Instead of mediating, he repeatedly took a bite off the bread and placed it back on the scale, almost eating up all the bread in the process.]

That is the problem ...

... ebangela ukuba ivuze ingxowa. UMphathiswa uyagalela, uyayivala kodwa iyaphuma ngezantsi. Ifana nalaa mfene yayivuna intsimi yombona. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[... that has led to the efforts bearing no fruit. The Minister makes the effort, but all the efforts are in vain. It is like the legend of a baboon that went on a rampage reaping maize in someone’s maize field.]

That is a problem.

Iyagelelwa kodwa iyaphuma iyaphela. Iza kuthi ukuze ilunge sisuse usokhetye apha kwiqela elilawulayo. [Efforts are being made, but to no avail. Things will only come right if we remove Sokhetye from the ruling party.]

Thank very much. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON (Ms MG Boroto): I did not want to disturb your speech. I just want to explain something to hon Filtane. Hon Filtane, members can use their phones to refer or to check whatever they want to check from their phones, as long as they do not interfere with what is happening in the House or distract the speaker who is speaking. Thank you very much.

Adv A DE W ALBERTS: Chairperson, in analysing policy, it is sensible to look at the evidence and not ideology. In the real world, data trumps ideology. If we accept this view, the data clearly indicates that South Africa is in deep trouble, so is the rest of the world. While the world’s troubles are circling us in a perfect storm, the ANC-led government’s policies, based on inflexible stealth-Marxist ideology, have diminished the possibility of creating a resilient cushion against any external adversity, but have more so actually destroyed wealth and job opportunities within South Africa.

Die ANC erken self dat hulle beleid nie rigting kry om armoede uit te wis nie en dat daar gekyk moet word om die privaatsektor se beleggings te verhoog. Dit is ’n stap in die regte rigting en in skrille kontras met die ANC se beleid en gedrag tot dusver. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[The ANC itself admits that their policy does not find direction with regard to the eradication of poverty and that attention should be given to increasing the investments of the private sector. This is a step in the right direction and in stark contrast with the ANC’s policy and attitude thus far.]

However, if we count the ways the ANC has destroyed wealth by stubborn adherence to ideology- that is by fitting data to fit their worldview in the face of data that tells them another story, the following self-harming measures stand out - to name a few: Firstly, the data says freeing up on economy allows it to grow, but the ANC ideology says following the Freedom Charter and creating equality at all cost is more important than growth even if we all end up dirt poor.

Secondly, the data said you must plan to provide power for the country but ideology says we have no crisis; thirdly, the data says Broad-based Black Economic Empowerment, BBBEE, creates only few rich blacks and has harmed the economy by billions of rand but ideology says BBBEE works even no evidence exist, we must merely intensify it. Damn the data!

Fourthly, the data says that security of property is the corner stone of a modern economy but ideology says redistribute land and assets at will in the name of equity irrespective of the effect on the economy and food security; lastly, the data says good education is a prerequisite for a growing economy, but ideology says keep the standards low so that the pass rate is high even if the economic growth is low.

Hierdie kontras tussen die werklikheid en ideologie sal opgelos moet word as die ANC enige ekonomiese sukses wil smaak. Die ANC wil nie verstaan dat enige ekonomie ’n komplekse stelsel is nie. Meng jy te veel in, kry jy onbedoelde gevolge wat skade veroorsaak. Vra maar die Sowjet-Unie wat na 70 jaar se sentrale beplanning in duie gestort het. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[This contrast between reality and ideology will have to be resolved should the ANC wants to achieve any degree of success economically. The ANC does not want to understand that any economy is a complex system. Should you interfere too much, you get unintended consequences that cause damage. Just ask the Soviet Union which has collapsed after 70 years of centralized planning.]

We are facing a fiscal cliff and imminent credit rating downgrade. It is time for the ANC to grow up and stop playing with ideology and people’s lives. For as it stand, the ANC is walking with eyes wide shut into the jaws of madness and pulling the country with it into that abyss. I thank you.

Mr S A TLEANE: Hon House Chair, we wish to commence this debate by making it very clear to hon members of the opposition that the ANC does not regard them as its enemies. We regard you as our brothers and sisters and as fellow South Africans. We have always acknowledged and been comfortable with the fact that you have a right not to be part of the liberation movement, that you reserve the right not to be part of the party of Nelson Mandela, Joe Slovo and Helen Joseph.

We, however, do not believe that some of you have a right to perpetually climb on top of mountains to say horrible things about our beautiful country and government, which cast aspersions on all of us and drive our country into the ground. Those of us who know what it took for us to be where we are today will defend our fledgling democracy with everything in our power. [Interjections.]

Your incessant pessimism is inadvertently and unconsciously causing untold damage to the socioeconomic fabric of our country and chasing away potential investors and tourists.

Being in the opposition does not imply that you must perennially oppose and criticise everything that government does or says. [Interjections.] Your criticism must be objective and rational in order to add value to the work of government. This is how it is done in democracies. By despising and rejecting everything done by government, you are creating a nest for yourselves in the dungeons and abyss of counter-revolution and history will judge you as such. [Interjections.]

Despite, and contrary to your unending negativism, floods of investors and tourists have been arriving at our country to find investment opportunities and thus create much-needed jobs for needy South Africans. Very soon, your own sons and daughters will curiously ask you as to why so many people from all continents of the world are flocking to South Africa. After initially beating about the bush, you will ultimately be forced to tell your children the truth that all these potential investors are attracted to the country by the dynamic, vibrant and effective economic policies of the ANC-led government. [Interjections.]

We are a stable democracy with a dynamic banking system, an abundance of natural resources, relatively well developed regulatory systems, as well as research and development capabilities, and an established manufacturing base. It is these calculated and strategically balanced economic policies and systems that were critical to the creation of peaceful and stable political conditions in which former oppressors and victims alike live side by side together in relative harmony.

You deliberately close your eyes to the global economic meltdown that is causing headaches for major economies in the world such as the US and China, let alone the situation in Greece, Spain and Portugal, which are all limping economically. Although our economic growth is not what we initially envisaged it to be, it is disingenuous to claim that there is an economic crisis in our country.

In other words, hon Maimane, when you are caught up in a massive storm, you do not scream, “Mma Wee mma wee, there is a crisis! Crisis! Crisis!” When you are caught in a storm, you take out your rain suit and umbrella to protect yourself. There is no economic crisis in this country, hon Maimane. [Interjections.]

Job creation remains high on the agenda of government and state-owned entities are playing a pivotal role in this regard. Our progressive government does not wait for the private sector to create jobs; it plays its role as well, although the task is primarily reserved for the private sector. The ANC does acknowledge that a few of these entities are performing below expectations.

Ms O MOKAUSE: House Chair, I rise on a point of order. Will the speaker take a question?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, wait! Hon Tleane, please take your seat. What is your point of order?

Ms O MOKAUSE: Does the speaker know ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No! [Interjections.]

Ms O MOKAUSE: ... what the economic crisis is ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, I did not allow you ...

Ms O MOKAUSE: Does the speaker know ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No! No! [Interjections.] No! Hon member ...

Ms O MOKAUSE: ... because it’s very clear that you are misled. Your researchers misled you. We have a huge economic crisis in South Africa and that is a fact! [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No, hon member, you are out of order. You were supposed to wait for me to give you that latitude to ask questions. Please don’t do that. [Interjections] Don’t do that, hon member.

Continue, hon Tleane.

Mr S A TLEANE: The organisation is now in the process of finalising a strategy to overhaul these entities. However, many of these entities are working very well and are contributing towards economic growth.

On the matter of new visas that are confusing some of our people, we want to indicate that the Deputy President is chairing an interministerial committee to scrutinise the matter and to resolve it accordingly. During our oversight work that we conducted in the Eastern Cape, for example, we were amazed by the good progress that government is making in the acquisition of renewable ...

Mr A M MATHLOKO: Mmusakgotla, ke kopa go tsatsanka mmui foo ka potso [Speaker, can the speaker take a question.]

CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): A mmui foo o ikemiseditse go tsaya potso? [Is the speaker prepared to take the question?]

Mr S A TLEANE: No, no, no! Don’t take questions from the EFF. [Laughter.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Not prepared. Continue. [Laughter.]

Mr S A TLEANE: While conducting our oversight work in the Eastern Cape, we were amazed by the good progress that government is making in the acquisition of renewable energy sources. A lot of progress has already been made in endeavours aimed at the development of wind, gas and solar energy in order to increase the capacity of the national grid.

Government has already worked with communities and Eskom to provide over 400 000 solar water heaters to households, mostly in parts of the Eastern Cape and the Northern Cape. While making hot water available to the people, it also reduces demand for grid electricity.

While we are aware of the limitations of clean energy, we intend to win this battle, as it is a necessary prerequisite for the massive industrialisation already unfolding across the country.

These initiatives are of course being undertaken simultaneously with the construction of more power stations in the country, such as Medupi.

On the regional front ... Thank you. [Time expired].

MR M G P LEKOTA: Chairperson, fellow South Africans, Members of the House, the services sector of the economy of our country accounts for R600 billion. Public administration follows with R467 billion. Together, these two contribute 50% of our GDP. Manufacturing, mining, construction, transport and agriculture contribute the balance. This is the heart of the problem.

South Africa needs to increase production of tradable manufactured goods. As a matter of fact, since we have been in a democratic order of things, what has happened is that our manufacturing sector shrank somewhat. But now it has shrunken immensely. So, if we don’t expand our manufacturing sector ... if we do not have tradable goods ... if we do not produce goods that other countries need from us, and if we do not increase that output, we cannot increase employment.

Therefore, the fact of the matter is that South Africa’s ability to employ has been blunted and we are increasingly causing larger numbers of people to become unemployed.

It is especially important that our labour leaders understand that the working class is not only those who are employed and unionised. The people who are unemployed are the workers because their only means of survival is through the sale of their labour. If they are not able to do that, they have no means to survive. If they don’t have the means to survive, they become a big, huge reserve of labour that must struggle to find survival for itself.

We cannot therefore continue to be comfortable with ever-decreasing numbers of unionised, supportive labour, without dealing with unorganised and unemployed labour. That is really where the danger lies for our society.

Those who say we are not in the crisis do not understand this. They do not understand the danger to any society of having large numbers of unemployed people. Large numbers of unemployed because contain the elements that make for instability and anarchy in society. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mrs C DUDLEY: Hon House Chair, joblessness, poverty, education and skills are key issues demanding our attention. However, the energy crisis may well trump all issues vying for attention as without sufficient energy to drive the economy, the chance of growth is virtually impossible. On this topic, the ACDP notes that the environmental sociologist, Dr David Fig has described South Africa’s electricity as managementcrisis – saying that the demand for electricity has never really exceeded installed capacity and that the amount theoretically available, if all sources are functioning properly, can meet our needs. Urgent and ongoing attention must be focused on our management crisis before all else. It is a failure of management that has resulted in the dysfunctional timetable for maintenance that has been eating into the safety margins.

Having said this, the ACDP believes it is also important for government to increase the focus on renewable energy solutions through subsidies to encourage private use of renewable energy. While new electricity sources must be brought onto the grid as fast as possible, more reliance on renewables is essential to installing this new capacity.

Within three days of the Fukushima nuclear disaster in Japan, the German government made far-reaching changes to the country’s energy policy, with Ch Angela Merkel saying, “The events in Japan taught us that the risks which were regarded as totally unlikely are not completely so.” When a highly developed country like Japan, with high safety standards and norms, experiences the consequences they did for having relied so significantly on nuclear power, we would expect the world to take note.

Today 26% of Germany’s energy is sourced from renewables. A change prompted by the German public in pushing their government towards renewable energy solutions – starting with the rise of the antinuclear and environmental movements of the 1960s and 1970s and consolidated by later successes of the Green Party in government which influenced policies.

South Africa, however, tends to embrace more coal, more nuclear and more shale gas. Out of a general feeling of vulnerability and mild panic in the wake of load shedding, the South African public are less inclined to question decisions regarding nuclear power and other less desirable solutions.

Sadly it is presently easier for people to buy diesel generators than it is for them to buy solar geysers. As long as government places negative controls on the renewable energy industry, by not offering subsidies like it does for the coal mining industry, it blocks access to renewable energy for many ordinary people who would like to use it.

The ACDP would like to see a greater focus on encouraging production of renewable energy locally and community ownership. Renewables provide an opportunity for greater decentralisation of energy, the use of technology to empower many more people and the offsetting of high consumer bills as unused power is returned to the grid. Thank you. [Applause.] [Time expired.]

Mr M P GALO: Hon House Chair, let us begin by acknowledging the fact that the social problems we are facing today as a nation, problems such as poverty, drug abuse, violent crimes and violent protest activities in our country are caused by the very subject we are discussing today in this Parliament. The fundamental question we are having as the AIC is whether, we, as political parties represented in this Parliament are honest enough when introducing these topics for discussion. Are we introducing them with the aim of finding honest solutions or just for political grand standing? If that is the case the AIC is not interested.

The AIC is not a commercial political party hellbent in swinging the unsuspecting ordinary people back and forth between stock answers whose only effect seems to be, “who gets elected.” If anything, the problems get worse and the people out there feel increasingly helpless and frustrated. As a society, we are stuck, and we have been stuck for more than 20 years. The gap between the haves and the have-nots is widening every financial year, because the ruling party abandoned the pro-poor economic policy which was well researched based on evidence, qualitative and quantitative research methods, that is, the Reconstruction and Development Programme, RDP. Had the policy not been thrown out of the window immediately after 1994, South Africa would have covered a lot of ground in terms of closing the gap between the haves and the have-nots.

The AIC is convinced that the current economic policies that are pursued by the ANC-led government would not fundamentally change the status quo, because they are aimed at enriching those who are well connected. Let us put the Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment, BBBEE, under scrutiny, for example. On their website page there is no database to indicate the detailed information about the beneficiaries of this programme.

In order to avoid a spontaneous revolution in this country, the AIC would strongly support the call for an Economic Indaba by the UDM where all key stakeholders like professional research institutions, policy analysts, civil society organsations, church-based organisations, traditional leaders, academia, political scientists, business fraternity etc, will converge and chart the way forward. Let me remind you about what Tata Mandela once said, and I quote, “When a man is denied the right to live the life he believes in, he has no choice but to become an outlaw”. [Time expired.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Galo, do not do that! Rule 49, hon Galo! [Interjections.]

Mr L R MBINDA: Hon House Chair, the growing economic crisis facing this country is there for everyone to see. Anyone who is attempting to refute the crisis is a crisis himself ... [Laughter.] ... because all the variables of the economy are showing one thing: The decline in the foreign exchange, the decline in our exports or a growing depleted surplus on trade balance and the decline in employment.

As the PAC we will not use this debate to redescribe the obvious. We will focus ourselves on the pertinent issue namely, to find the solutions. You can never find a solution when you have not properly defined a problem. The solutions that our learned colleagues who spoke before us have presented, in our humble view, are for the wrong problem.

The problem, as seen by the PAC, is that our economy has its foundations on the colonial paradigm. The colonial paradigm separates society into two categories namely, the oppressed and the oppressor. Our business community has taken as its fundamental interest a position to be an oppressor. Therefore all its orientation in terms of exchange, means of production and distribution are that of an oppressor.

The workers employed or unemployed have been positioned as the oppressed. This then creates a volatile and antagonistic relationship within one nation which tends to be divided into two parts. To make it worse the African workers carry the maximum weight of the brutality and the ruthlessness of this paradigm of the economy. So, the solution for us is total eradication of exploitation. Economy and work in particular should drive the happiness of our citizens.

On the exchange, the PAC states that we cannot have a striving economy that assures self-determination and sovereignty as long as the Reserve Bank is a private entity. The PAC calls for the nationalisation of the Reserve Bank, if that option is unpalatable we should shift the function of the monetary policy from the Reserve Bank to Financial Services Board. You cannot have a private entity with equal status to parliament in terms of monetary policies and in deciding law, because monetary policy is more than a policy. It has the same behaviour as legislation. Furthermore, the amount of the government expenditure should be directed on national companies with indigenous ideas, services and products to avoid outflow of money and to rebalance the trade deficit.

Hence we are unhappy with the monetary policy direction, which generates inflation by itself therefore reducing circulation of goods and money particularly to the African community. It creates indebtedness which is a problem in our society. Thank you, House Chair. [Time expired.]

MS J L FUBBS: Hon Chairperson, greetings to the House, all the hon colleagues here, as well as to our people in South Africa in general. There is absolutely no doubt that the foundations about growth path had been the commodity super cycle; and at the same time, we have experienced in the last few years a period of rapid consumer credit expansion.

We have analysed this, and as an ANC government, we have come up with a number of instruments to actually take account of and address what is being described by many economists to the left and the right as changing Gross Domestic Product, GDP, patterns. And these reflect ... let me remind members of this House. At one stage, it was China who saved the west during their economic crisis. Now, China itself is experiencing a slow-down because it has changed its economic growth trajectory.

What we have looked at is how to address a more inclusive and faster growth trajectory, and to that end, the ANC government is deepening its relationship with the private sector. [Interjections.] It acknowledges that there have been challenges in both sectors. But blame is not the name of the game. What we’ve got to do, if we put our country and our people first, it is actually to come together in this time of challenge.

Now, I am very pleased that the hon Minister Patel, has already dealt with the jobs issue. Let me remind hon members, you criticise the unions; what role do they play, etc. May I remind you, that in the work place there are both captains of industry and workers. Without workers you won’t get very far, so we do need to address that. [Interjections.]

What the hon Minister Patel also dealt with and therefore I won’t deal with again is the challenge of steel coming into our country at lower prices. That is true. That is quite true, but we are ... the President has actually put together a group to address that issue in a responsible manner, not a commission; no.

Now, in terms of the drivers, what we’ve taken a decision on is to develop drivers to drive our economy. May I remind hon members that we are not the only people who think that the global economy has deteriorated. Only last night, or perhaps it was early this morning, I was still up, in the news, the Bloomberg’s were saying they have a privately-held financial, software, data and media company, head quartered in New York. With that we can expect serious negative economic conditions globally from the slowing Chinese economy.

As hon Patel pointed out, the International Monetary Fund, IMF, has repeatedly revised down global growth focus. Well, that would be a simplistic view, but may I point to the five cost drivers. [Interjections.]

One of the key cost drivers here for the ANC will be a focus on the key productive sectors specifically, the implementation of a higher impact Industrial Policy Action Plan, Ipap, and agro-processing value chain.

Someone mentioned the Nkandla; Nkandla, and that we put it in the papers. We are begging to get space. The other day we had a very good new story from agro-processing [Interjections.] which indicated ... yes one in one hour, for the first time since 2007. For those interested in food South Africa has achieved a positive trade balance in agro-processed products. I think we should applaud that hon Chair. It is a very difficult issue. [Applause.]

Secondly, it has contributed about 255 000 jobs to the manufacturing sector since 2014. Now, related to that, we were very interested in decentralised milling operations because as many of us know, at one stage they were fairly decentralised 40 years ago and they all came to Gauteng, the whole lot. [Interjections.] No wonder the maize costs so much. You grow your maize, you transport it to Gauteng, it gets milled, you send it back; more costs. So, of course, yes I acknowledge that I was not around at the time and neither was I at Gauteng. May I tell you, there were no nine provinces, there were five. [Interjections.]

An HON MEMBER: Four.

MS L FUBBS: The small ...

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms MG Boroto): Order, hon members, please allow the speaker to be heard.

MS L FUBBS: May I say people of South Africa, that it is clear when the ANC wants to stand here and give good news, even if it is about food security, the DA is not interested at all, [Interjections.] Notwithstanding, that unlike them we are not prorogued. We work with the Western Cape government and that is why you have got R7 billion Saldanha expenditure. We work with you, [Interjections.] because we are not petty and prorogue [Interjections.

Secondly, in Atlantis we ... [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms MG Boroto): Order!

MS L FUBBS: ... we worked with you again. Notwithstanding, when our Minister was there, he was not included in one picture on your front pages; only your Premier, and we opened up the Ga Stump factory. But, that is fine, empty vessels make the most noise. Let us simply carry on. [Interjections.]

An HON MEMBER: Good point.

MS L FUBBS: Now, let us look at Unilever.

An HON MEMBER: They are confusing.

MS J L FUBBS: Unilever has got 33 companies. I think it is, internationally. Is that not correct? Yes. Four of them are in South Africa, and Unilever says this is a great company to invest; the Ga Stump in the Atlantis, I have already referred to. Someone mentioned the, Special Economic Zone, SEZ, etc. The SEZ is also going to be used as a very reliable employer to grow the economy.

Because I have been interrupted, let me indicate this about the Ipap, there will be a recalibration of industrial financing to address conditionalities. There will also be building on existing production platforms. We have also established R23 billion black industrialist policy and programme. We are also going to boost oil and gas, metals, engineering, capital, equipment and the like.

And, of course when the commodity boom went down, you did get a slump in mining equipment and the rest. We know government must be more innovative. We have acknowledged that. But, when is the private sector going to become more innovative?

An HON MEMBER: When you open up the [Inaudible.]

MS J L FUBBS: With reference to the DA that put this motion here, they had a five point plan reduced to three points; where is skills and capacity? Everyone in South Africa from left to right acknowledges that without strategic skills we will not employ people; we will not grow our country. And when I say employ our people ... [Interjections.] ... [Inaudible.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms MG Boroto): Order, members!

MS J L FUBBS: ... decent employment. [Interjections.]

With respect to transfer pricing, may I say that we know that a great chunk of funds is going in the wrong direction. [Interjections.] But, the five committees are working on this and as the EFF knows, we have not yet concluded. The ANC ... [Inaudible.] [Interjections.] ... to get more.

The ANC does not support that motion. Thank you. [Time expired.]

Mr I M OLLIS: Thank you, Chairperson. I think that the ANC today sounds a lot like a science fiction movie called Star Trek or as TV series. Minister Patel sounds exactly like the captain of the Starship Enterprise. You know, they live in the future, in a dreamland that we haven’t got to, where everything is already just about perfect.

You can come and make statements that don’t exist, and just by saying them, they come into being. You know you can say words like cogeneration and suddenly the power station just puff! Come out of the sky. You know, Minister Patel can come up to this podium and say make it so, and everyone in South Africa rushes up there to quickly go and do the bidding of the ANC. Most of this cogeneration plus don’t exist; there is a handful of them in a country. We desperately need many of them.

Then there is an infrastructure investment, you know, he tells you ooh! There is all this infrastructure investment. Well, engineering news write an interesting article about the ANC’s investment in infrastructure where they actually said that there are not enough project managers to actually, roll out the desired dream of this entire infrastructure, and so, it is not happening.

The private sector is starting to have to tell the government, this is what you actually need. The government can’t even tell the private sector what they need for this infrastructure investment programme. Of course, in the ANC world you can invent numbers. You know, you can just stand up here and create numbers.

Well, Minister Patel has found little chink that he thinks he is getting into the DA’s almost 5 000 youth jobs that have been lost. What he doesn’t tell you is that here in the real world we deal with Statistics SA, and Statistics SA has got actual published figures. He doesn’t want you to read the rest of them, just the little ones that he gives you in out of 5 000. The real figures of Statistics SA are that there is this thing called expanded unemployment. Expanded unemployment means it includes everyone who is unemployed, that can’t find a job and all of those people who have given up looking for a job.

The previous governor of the SA Reserve Bank says, that’s the only useful measure of unemployment we should be using. Let me tell you about that unemployment figure, the Western Cape, which you were so eager to rubbish in your Star Trek universe, every quarter since 2009 when the DA ran the Western Cape, the Western Cape has the lowest expanded definition of unemployment. Not one quarter, not two quarters, not one year, not two years, every quarter since 2009. I’m afraid you can’t manufacture those figures. [Applause.]

However, Chairperson I digress, this is really about jobs, the people of South Africa want freedom. The people of South Africa want fairness and the people of South Africa want opportunities to get jobs; but what they get instead from the Zuma regime of the ANC is the triple challenge of poverty, inequality and unemployment; that’s what you are giving them.

The Zuma regime offers young people of South Africa a government job if you are connected to the President of the country. You get a rigged tender but only if you are connected to certain Ministers; and maybe, just maybe if you can’t get any of that, you get a little bit of the Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP, opportunity for about two or three months; that’s the offer of the ANC to the people of South Africa. [Interjections.]

The MINISTER OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, can I check whether the speaker is prepared to take a question?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Ollis, are you prepared to take a question?

Mr I M OLLIS: I will take a question at the end. The point is Chairperson, that corruption kills jobs and everyone knows it; and a T-shirt, a sandwich and free trip to the election stadium are not going to fix it. We need to create jobs. But let me tell you how the ANC creates jobs, they imported trains from Spain for R3,6 billion, and at the time I was the spokesperson on transport of the opposition, and I said that was a bad idea.

The Spanish company Faslon in Spain published a news article, saying thank you so much for the contract, you have created 1200 jobs in Spain. For what you can do is order a class 19E upgrade locomotive from the Union Carriage and Wagon Co (Pty) in Ekurhuleni at half the price, 50% of the price; and create all those 1 200 in Ekurhuleni.

So the ANC government keeps on sending jobs overseas to build trains that we now discovered don’t even work on our railway lines; and you send 1 200 jobs to the Spanish. And the people of Ekurhuleni are sitting on the side of the road saying please give me a job. That’s what we have got in this government.

We have a plan. First of all you have heard before, get rid of the tourism killing regulations. You have heard what it will do in other sectors of the economy. We will also – yes, Minister Patel, change certain things about the labour laws and I’m just going to give you three: Give workers a secret ballot so that we can have democracy and not have bullying of trade unions. [Applause.] Treat all unions equally and stop the extension of bargaining council agreements. I thank you. [Applause.] [Time expired.]

Debate concluded.

The House Adjourned AT 18:48.

__________

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

FRIDAY, 14 AUGUST 2015

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Public Enterprises

Report and Financial Statements of Denel SOC Limited for 2014-15, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2014-15.

COMMITTEE REPORTS

National Assembly

Please see pages 3101-3105 of the ATCs.

Please see pages 3105-3109 of the ATCs.

MONDAY, 17 AUGUST 2015

COMMITTEE REPORTS

National Assembly

Please see pages 3110-3117 of the ATCs.

Please see pages 3117-3119 of the ATCs.

TUESDAY, 18 AUGUST 2015

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Draft Bills submitted in terms of Joint Rule 159

Local Government: Municipal Electoral Amendment Bill, submitted by the Minister of Home Affairs.

Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs and the Select Committee on Social Services.

National Assembly

The Speaker

1. Recommendation of candidates for appointment to NYDA board

A letter dated 6 August 2015 has been received from the Minister of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation, requesting Parliament to recommend seven candidates for appointment to the board of the National Youth Development Agency in terms of section 9 of the National Youth Development Agency Act, 2008 (No 54 of 2008).

TABLINGS

National Assembly

The Speaker

Reply from the Minister of Public Enterprises to recommendations in the Report of Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises on Budget Vote 9 and Strategic Plan for 2015‑16 – 2018‑19 of Department of Public Enterprises, as adopted by the House on 2 June 2015.

Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises.

Petition from residents of Meadowland Hostel, Zone 11, Soweto, calling for assistance in acquiring social housing and improved service delivery, submitted in terms of Rule 312 (Mr T W Mhlongo).

COMMITTEE REPORTS

National Assembly

Please see pages 3128-3143 of the ATCs.

Audio

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Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 18 Aug 2015

Summary

Minutes

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