Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 04 Nov 2015

Summary

No summary available.

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Minutes

WEDNESDAY, 4 NOVEMBER 2015

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PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

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The House met at 15:02.

 

The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.

 

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

 

NEW MEMBER

 

(Announcement)

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, I wish to announce that the vacancy which occurred in the National Assembly owing to the resignation of Mr K Z Morapela has been filled by the nomination of Mr T Rawula with effect from 31 October 2015. [Applause.] The hon member has made and subscribed to the oath in the Deputy Speaker’s office.

 

The first item on today’s Order Paper is questions addressed to Ministers in the Social Services Cluster.

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, I would like to address you in terms of Rule 109 if I may. This is the second time that the Minister of Basic Education will not be here to answer questions in her rotation. We know the Deputy Minister is here but, really, the Minister is the Cabinet member responsible, and we therefore feel that we are being prejudiced in terms of our ability to exercise oversight. I have been requested by the member in whose name the questions for the DA are on Order Paper to request that those questions stand over to a question day next week and that additional time is provided so we can exercise oversight over the Minister and that she can be responsible for fulfilling her constitutional obligations to account to this House regularly. This is the second rotation that has been missed, and that is why we are making this extraordinary request. Thank you.

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Deputy Speaker, the Minister of Basic Education presently is leading a delegation in the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation, Unesco. That is an important international forum where the country has to be represented. Indeed, it is so that, if the Minister was within the country and disregarding her obligations, one could understand it.

 

However, there is a further point. The Rules are very clear that a Deputy Minister can act on behalf of the Minister in his or her absence. If indeed the intention was to exclude Deputy Ministers from participating, then the Rules should be very clear about it. If indeed this House is of the opinion that Deputy Ministers should not participate in the debate, that they are not part of the executive, which the Constitution clearly states they are part of, then we are entitled to do so. By responding on behalf of the Minister, I am fulfilling the executive responsibility for the accountable Minister, and I do believe this is a technical argument which certainly is inconsistent with either the Rules or the Constitution. Thank you. [Interjections.]

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, if I may, because I had the floor, say that I accept what the Deputy Minister is saying. However, as much as he likes to think so, he is not a member of Cabinet, as defined by the Constitution. [Interjections.] Ordinarily, we have no problem with Deputy Ministers answering on one-off occasions. This is the second rotation that is being missed. We are therefore making the point that there are extraordinary circumstances that warrant us hearing from the Minister.

 

The last time she chose to open a school over her parliamentary duties. Now she is prioritising international business over the basic education of this country. I really would like her questions that we have on the Order Paper to stand over for the following day so that we can get answers from the Minister and not a member who is not even a member of the Cabinet. [Applause.]

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Speaker, we cannot correct a wrong with another wrong. Rule 109, which the hon Steenhuisen cites, specifically says that we must agree, from time to time, in the Chief Whips’ Forum to follow a particular route. He did not propose that we discuss it collectively. We did not agree on that, so he is doing it on his own without us.

 

Secondly, if we put these questions down for another day, we not only inconvenience ourselves but other people as well. We cannot agree with that. [Interjections.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Deputy Speaker, firstly, we want to express ourselves on what the Deputy Minister is saying. It is very unfortunate and, in our view, it is arrogant that his response is what he is saying. Parliament is serious. [Interjections.] It is an obligation of Ministers, as per the Constitution of the Republic, to come and report to Parliament. If you are telling us about Unesco, you are creating an impression that Unesco is more important than Parliament. That cannot be the case, and so that logic must be rejected with the contempt it deserves.

 

Secondly, in the Chief Whips’ Forum, hon Steenhuisen, there was actually an agreement or a common condemnation from all parties that we cannot accept the continuous absence of Ministers when they should come and report. Therefore, that proposal must not be rejected, hon Deputy Speaker. I would ask the Chief Whip of the Majority to allow a quick consultation, if need be. Hon Motshekga must come and report to Parliament. Otherwise, it would mean that she had not been here for the entire term. [Interjections.]

 

It cannot be. Surely, the first step is that we agree. It is not like we are asking for a favour. It is a constitutional obligation and, if you are making noise, it means that you don’t know your own Constitution. [Interjections.] It says she must come here and report, so I request – and it is a progressive proposal on the basis of its validity – that hon Motshekga must be made to come and report to Parliament because if this is not the case, it means that we will end 2015 without her coming to report to Parliament. It cannot be. My request is, if need be, let’s caucus quickly as the Chief Whips and agree that the DA’s proposal be passed. Then we can have a progressive way forward. Thank you. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, Rule 109(3) reads as follows:

 

If a Minister is absent on a day when questions relating to the relevant cluster are to be answered and those questions are not answered by another Cabinet member or by the Deputy Minister concerned, the Speaker may, if requested to do so by the member in whose name a question to that Minister stands, and after consultation with the Leader of Government Business, direct that –

 

1. questions to that Minister be placed on the Question Paper for the first question session for Ministers following that day; and

 

(b)        an additional 30 minutes be added to the question time for that session.

 

The Deputy Minister is here. The Deputy Minister is willing to respond to the questions, and so, hon members, I feel that for current purposes I would suggest strongly that we proceed with the Deputy Minister responding to the questions but convey the concern of the House, as expressed by members here. That is acceptable to do. I would recommend that we go that route, hon members. Let’s proceed that way.

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, I respect the fact that you have made a ruling, and if that is your ruling, that is fine. However, I don’t think the Rules can be read outside in isolation without the Constitution. Section 92(3) of the Constitution is very clear where it says that Ministers must do the following:

 

1. act in accordance with the Constitution; and

 

(b)          provide Parliament with full and regular reports concerning matters under their control.

 

That is not taking place, but I respect your ruling.

 

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Speaker, in the Chief Whips’ Forum, we said that we would consult the Leader of Government Business regarding this matter. That is what we agreed upon, so I want to plead with our colleagues that we proceed with the business of the day. That matter will be attended to. Thank you.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, thank you. I suggest that we proceed.

 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY

 

SOCIAL SERVICES

Cluster 2

 

MINISTERS:

 

Plans to prevent water cuts as a result of water scarcity

 

542.        Ms M S Khawula (EFF) asked the Minister of Water and Sanitation:

 

With regard to the World Water Week Conference held on 22 to 28 August 2015, in Sweden where she stated that the country faces the possibility of having water cuts, similar to load shedding because of water scarcity, what plans has she put in place to prevent such water cuts?                                         NO4616E

 

The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Deputy Speaker, I thank all the parties for the indulgence. The department has put in place the following to mitigate the impact of less than anticipated rainfall that has led to drought in certain parts of our country: Water conservation and water demand management measures, including the War on Leaks programme to minimise water losses; surface water resource management; managing and use of ground water resources including drilling and equipping of additional the boreholes; the re-use as well as exploration of desalination of water in the coastal areas, particularly in the three provinces, the Western Cape, Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal; the adopt a river programme as part of the eradication of invading alien plants; the eradication of illegal water use; the development of surface water resources in terms of other than building new dams, but also making sure that what we do now is to increase the storage capacity using different innovative solutions; the transfer of water to stretch catchments through the implementation of Phase 2 of the Lesotho Highlands Water project; The emergency transfer from Tugela River to Goedertrouw; Tongaat River transfer to the Hazelmere Dam that has run dry; and lastly, the promotion of the recycling of water as well as promotion of other alternative uses, particularly focusing on sanitation that it is not all about flushing, it is all about hygienic sanitation solutions. Thank you.

 

Ms H O HLOPHE: Deputy Speaker, I am hon Hlophe, in case you forget. Minister, the main crisis is that the state has no internal capacity, but depends on service providers to fix even something as basic as leaking tap. As for water, the state continues to use private contractors to fix the aging water infrastructure.

 

How would you explain the dramatic reduction of technicians dealing with fixing water infrastructure over the past 20 years? What are you planning to do to ensure that more technicians get back and be employed at the Public Service?

 

The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Thank you very much, hon member. In fact, contrary to what has been raised around the lack of capacity, what the state has are the water boards that have now come in and stepped in on the incapacity of some of our local authorities. One can safely indicate the work that we are doing in Bushbuckridge turning around the problems of water incapacity, and the work that Lepelle Water Board has also done at Giyani to make such interventions.

The use of the private sector, in fact, what has been an issue is to appreciate the fact that we have an aging capacity in the water sector. Secondly, there has also been the nonavailablity of those with skills opting to work for the private sector because of the financial opportunities hence the recruitment of the 15 000 young people as part of the War on Leaks working together with the Department of Higher Education and Training as well as the partnership with the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs in terms of Back to Basics and looking at the capacities that local authorities have.

 

Yes, what can really circumvent the situation is the ability to manage, political leadership and determination to deal with the issues forthright, and lastly, it is not just about that, it is being waterwise as ordinary South Africans. Thank you.

 

Ms Z B N BALINDLELA: Hon Deputy Speaker, Minister on Monday, 02 November 2015, I visited Ward 52, at Despach in the Nelson Mandela Bay Municipality where I saw broken and leaking pipes and empty reservoirs. At Kwanobuhle, I met three families having water streaming straight through their houses, and this has been happening over the past 15 years affecting the health of their children.

 

The country’s water scarcity is made worse by the government’s inability to maintain, manage and properly finance our country’s water infrastructure. Last time you were here, Minister. You said you would announce the date for the release of the Blue Drop and Green Drop reports by 30 September. Four weeks later, you are still keeping the reports from us. When will you release the reports? [Time expired.] [Applause.]

 

The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Deputy Speaker, thanks for the follow up question from the former Premier of the Eastern Cape. I want to also remind the former Premier of the Eastern Cape that, coming from the former Premier of Gauteng who can proudly say, as we speak today, Gauteng has a Blue Drop that has consistently been there during my time as the premier, and we felt to help the Eastern Cape.

 

Secondly, I also think, hon members, it would also be important that as we deal with all these issues we must also concede the capacity of local governments to deal with maintenance, because those wards, Ward 52 and ward whatever, are the areas that we are now dealing with and hence in Nelson Mandela Bay Metropolitan we are making interventions through Minister Pravin Gordhan and other departments. Our programme on the programme on the War on Leaks is also dealing with that. The work that is underway of making sure that local authorities are developing their own 10 to 15-year maintenance plans, is, but, part of the interventions that we are dealing with.

 

The fact that we now have a stand alone department for the first time on water and sanitation, demonstrates the seriousness that we are dealing with. When are we going to deal with these issues? We are dealing with them. The Western Cape is number four on the Blue Drop. Thank you very much.

 

Mr I OLLIS: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: The question was: When are you releasing the report? The Minister has not answered the question.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Minister, do you want to respond to that?

 

The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Yes, if you listen you will be smarter. Hon members, when the report gets released, the immediate client and those who have to deal with it, is the local government. The report is with local authorities. It will come to the national Cabinet with the comments so that we then have report that is inclusive of what local authorities have raised. It is not with Nomvula, and it is not with the Minister. The former Premier of the Eastern Cape should understand that the report is long out, and it is with the relevant authorities. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Mme H B KEKANA: Mmusakgotla, a lefapha le na le diporogeramo tsa go tsibosa setšhaba mabapi le tiriso ya metsi ka tshomarelo ka ntlha ya komelelo? Ke a leboga.

 

TONA YA METSI LE KGELELO YA LESWE: A ke tseye tšhono e ke arabe potso e e tlhagileng. Maikemisetso a rona ke go dirisana le mekgatlho ya selegae le bo mmasepala ba rona gore mongwe le mongwe mo nageng ya rona a itse botlhokwa le tiriso ya metsi. Se re simolotseng go se dira, jaaka kwa Madibeng kwa re simolotseng teng re nale mathata, ke go aga kokoano ya baagi e e bidiwang foramo ya metsi mo re netefatsang gore re tlhokomela metsi le moago. Re dira seo se diriwang kwa Kwazulu-Natal e le go ruta batho ka tlhokomelo ya metsi ka lebaka la komelelo e re nang le yona.

 

Mme gape re dira jalo ka lebaka la gore re naga e e lebaneng le go sa nneng le metsi a a lekaneng ka tlhago. Re dirisana gape le Lefapha la Thuto, le mafapha a a farologaneng go netefatsa gore bašwa ba rona le bona ba nale kitso eo. [Tsenoganong.] Gatwe leina le be seromo. Jaanong Nomvula yoo, re tshepa gore ga gona motho yo o nagang gore ke ena a ka tlang le metlholo. Se ke maemo a loapi a a aparetseng lefatshe ka bophara eseng naga ya rona fela. Ke a leboga. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follow.)

 

[Mrs H B KEKANA: Speaker, does your department have programmes to educate the public about safe water usage as a result of the drought that we are experiencing? Thank you.

 

The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Let me take this opportunity to respond to the question raised. Our objective is to work together with local stakeholders and municipalities so that all in our country should be made aware of the importance of safe water usage.

 

What we have started doing- like in Madibeng where we started, we have challenges- is to establish a water forum, where members of the community will get together with the aim of saving water and a building. We are doing what is being done in KwaZulu-Natal, which is to educate people about water usage, as a result of the drought that we are experiencing.

 

Furthermore, we are doing this because our country is experiencing a water shortage. We are working with the Department of Education and various departments to ensure that our youth acquire the necessary skills. [Interjections.]

 

They say our names have significant meanings attached to them. However, this Nomvula, we hope that there is no one who thinks that she will perform miracles. This is a weather condition experienced by the whole world, not only our country. Thank you.]

 

Mrs C DUDLEY:  Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, your department has appealed to South Africans to use water sparingly, and clearly there will be water cuts. How would the department be putting instructive messages to the public on saving water? Will it be across all media? Will it be frequent enough for memorability and soon enough for our scares water to be saved? Thank you.

 

The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Thank you very much. Already there is a partnership that is now branded as water ambassadors. It is the private sector, civil society, different nongovernmental organisations, and through the strategic water partnership network that includes big industry in it.

 

Part of what we are dealing with, yes, is to deal with publicity, but also educating communities on behavioural change - just the basics of how to use water and taking responsibilities starting with management by those who are in charge of dealing with water resources in government. Secondly, we deal with institutions such our water boards, partnering with the research commissions on alternative and innovative solutions. The media is also coming onboard. All what is of importance is also the young ambassadors that we have started to work with. So yes, it will be through media campaigns.

 

This coming Sunday, the SA Council of Churches has made a commitment that they will be praying and focusing on water. This coming Monday, next week, all scientists will be meeting at the University of KwaZulu-Natal to look at innovative water generating solutions.

 

Both sides, science as well as spiritual connections are coming into place to say lets us find various means to deal with water. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Particulars regarding building of legacy projects throughout the country

 

524.        Mr T Makondo (ANC) asked the Minister of Arts and Culture:

In light of the legacy projects that his department has built in the country’s rural areas and the plans that his department has in place to build the specified projects in other areas in the country, (a) what steps has he, in collaboration with his respective colleagues in Cabinet, taken to ensure that infrastructure and resources such as roads, telephone networks, geographic information, water and electricity are made available in order to allow easy access to the specified legacy projects, (b) what measures have been put in place to ensure that communities are involved in all processes of the development of the specified projects and (c) to what extent will the specified projects contribute toward local economic growth, job creation and transformation of the country’s historical narrative?                                                                                                        NO4594E

 

The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: Deputy Speaker, let me thank the hon member for asking the question. My department implements the legacy projects through formal project steering committee comprising all stakeholders, including relevant national departments, provincial departments, district municipalities and local municipalities. This includes ensuring that infrastructure and resources such as roads, telephone, electricity, geographic information and water are made available in order to allow easy access to the specified legacy projects. District and local municipalities are required to align legacy projects with their Integrated Development Planning, IDPs. Some examples includes, the Ncome Museum which contributes to the surrounding communities having electricity connections in areas that never had electricity before; Ingquza Hill Museum in the Lusikisiki district and the Nelson Mandela site in Mvezo, where boreholes have been installed giving surrounding villages access to water closer to the village, to cite but a few. In some areas there are still challenges regarding the upgrading of access roads and this is taken up with the relevant departments. My department further develops and implements the legacy projects in a manner that foster ownership through public consultation. Committees like the project steering committee are in place. Thank you.

 

Mr T MAKONDO: Deputy Speaker, let me thank the Minister for a comprehensive response. In the Blood River Heritage Site, where Ncome Museum is, the surrounding communities stand to benefit from economic spinoffs from the tourism sector. This can as well create jobs for the locals, boost local economy and uplift local crafters. But Minister, the construction of roads; installation of water infrastructure and the finalisation of the impasses between the two monuments in the Blood River Heritage Site are deterrent to full narrative of the history of the heritage site. Minister, when are we going to address the impasse in the Blood River Heritage Site?

 

The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: The impasse you are talking about is historical. It is historical to understand the Ncome and the very battle of what is called the Blood River. With the process of reconciliation, the emphasis we are making is that it is a two-way street. So, both parties should understand that they have a responsibility to meet each other half way on that. There’s been a lot of work which has been done on the side of Ncome, to ensure that there is connection with the museums on the other side; but there’s still a resistance somehow. This is what we are seized with and emphasising the point that all of us have got a responsibility to ensure that we make reconciliation a task for all of us, not some of us. Thank you.

 

Moh M O MOKAUSE: Motlatsammusakgotla, ngogola ka Sedimonthole, 2014, Moporesidente o ne a thankgolola semmuso borogo jo bo kopanyang Blood River le Ncome. Seno e ne e le go kopanya Maaforikanere le MaZulu. [Tsenoganong.] (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

 

[Ms M O MOKAUSE: Deputy Speaker, last year in December 2014, the President officially unveiled the bridge connecting Blood River and Ncome. This was to form unity between the Afrikaners and the Zulus. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, the Minister is requesting you to slow down because he wants to hear you. He was just requesting you to go slow as he is still putting on his ... [Interjections.]

 

Moh M O MOKAUSE: ... Ke puo ya rona, Ntate, e letlelesegile mo Aforikaborwa. O tshwanetse go solofela gore mongwe le mongwe yo o emang a ka bua puo ya gagwe. Tona, ka kgwedi ya Sedimonthole wa ngwaga wa 2014, Moporesidente o ne a thankgolola semmuso borogo jo bo kopanyang Ncome le Blood River, e le karolo ya lenaneo la go tlisa poelano mo gareng ga Maaforikanere le MaZulu. Gape, re bone Maaforikanere ba simolola lephata lengwe le le letlelelang bone fela gore ba le tsenele. Lefapha la gago, le dirile eng go netefatsa gore seno se ka se tlhole se diragala mo nakong e e tlang? (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

 

[... it is one of the official languages in South Africa Sir. You must always expect that anyone who stand up might speak in their respective language. Minister, in December 2014, the President officially unveiled the bridge connecting Ncome and Blood River as part of reconciliation programme between the Afrikaners and the Zulus. Again, we witnessed the Afrikaners starting a sector/party which only allows them to join, what did your department do to ensure that something like this does not happen in future?]

 

UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOBUCIKO NAMASIKO: Lungu elihloniphekile lePhalamende, kuningi okwenziwe uMnyango wami kusukela ngalolo suku okhuluma ngalo - langomhla ziyishumi nesithupha kuZibandlela wonyaka odlule. Siye saxoxisana nalabo obekufanele sixoxisane nabo, yingako impendulo yami kwilungu elihloniphekile laphaya ibithi ukubuyisana ngumsebenzi wawo wonke umuntu okhona la kulelizwe lakithi. Kufanele sonke sikuqonde ukuthi akubona abathize ekufanele badlale indima ekubuyisaneni kodwa wonke umuntu. Ngithe uma ngiphendula ngathi laba abangaphesheya kwebhuloho okhuluma ngalo njengamanje, siyaxoxisana nabo. Siyayibeka futhi into yokuthi ukubuyisana akufanele kube yinto abanye bethu abacabanga ukuthi kufanele icelwe. Mengabe nibuyisana kufanele nibeke phansi nonke izikhali, kungabi khona ogodla isikhali omunye esibeke phansi. Sizoqhubeka futhi sixoxisane nabo kodwa siyayigcizelela into yokuthi wonke umuntu uneqhaza ekufanele alibambe ukuthi kubuyiswane. Ngiyabonga kakhulu Sekela Somlomo. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: Hon Member of Parliament, much has been done by my department ever since the 16 of December last year which is the date you are referring to. We talked with whoever we were supposed to talk to, that is why my answer to the hon member over there was that reconciliation is a task for everybody who belongs to this country of ours. All of us must understand that it is not only the duty of the chosen individuals to play a role in reconciliation but everybody else should play that role. In my answer I said that, we are talking to those people who are on the other side of the bridge whom you are referring to right now. We also state it clearly that it looks as if some of us think that reconciliation should be begged from people. When reconciling, both parties must lay down their weapons it should not be like one party hides away its weapons whilst the other lays them down. We will continue talking to them but we are emphasising the fact that everybody has a role they need to play in order to be reconciled. Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker.]

 

Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Deputy Speaker, can the Minister confirm that all new structures or buildings that are currently being built by the department conform to standards that provide and can accommodate people with disabilities, particularly people who are blind, especially at departmental buildings in our rural areas? Secondly, advise us why traditional leaders who are primary custodians of cultural practices in our traditional communities are not given a more prominent role to play within the mandate of this department? Thank you.

 

The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: The department is doing everything in the structures or construction of the new buildings to ensure that our people with disabilities access those structures and buildings. I’m not sure, hon Deputy Speaker about the second question, it is so broad, that traditional leaders are not given a role. In each community, traditional or urban areas, we interact with people in those particular areas. All the people who are leaders in those areas, be the traditional leaders or not traditional leaders are engaged. There is no situation where a programme unfolds in a particular area without engaging leaders in those particular areas. Thank you very much.

 

USolwazi N M KHUBISA: Sekela Somlomo, mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe, kukhona izinto ezimbili ezibalulekile abantu abakhala ngazo. Ukuthi abayitholi imfundo eyanele eqhamuka ngaseMnyangweni uma kwenziwa le misebenzi. Okokuqala, lokho mhlawumbe abasebenzi abatholakali kalula ukuthi ukube baxoxe nabo usuku nosuku. Okwesibili, bese ukuba ukuthi ekwakhiweni kwale misebenzi enomlando, abantu bakithi njengakhona le koNcome nakwezinye izindawo bathi abakwazi ukuthi bathole amathuba okuthi nabo bakwazi ukuzithuthukisa. Mhlawumbe uNgqongqoshe angathini kulokho?

 

UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOBUCIKO NAMASIKO: Ngiyabonga lungu elihloniphekile, nakuba uwuqalile umbuzo wakho wokuqala wawushiya phakathi, bengisalalele, uye wawushiya phakathi. Kodwa kulokhu okhuluma ngakho, kulezindawo ezinomlando leyo yinto esiye siyithathele phezulu. Uzokwazi ukuthi kunezindawo engike ngazibala la nezinye engingazibalile. Into yokuqala esiye siyibuke ukuthi amathuba omsebenzi akhiwa kanjani lapho kuleyondawo leyo okwakhiwa khona lezi zakhiwo esizakhayo. Kanjalo abantu bakhona, yebo bazoqhubeka bakhale lungu elihloniphekile ngoba angeke kwenela, angeke futhi kukwazi ukuthi wonke umuntu okhona kuleyo naleyo ndawo akwazi ukuthola ithuba lomsebenzi, kumbe amathuba emisebenzi kodwa labo abakwaziyo ukuthi batholakale ngaleso sikhathi siyakugcizelela lokho ngoba kuyona yonke iMinyango kahulumeni sinomgomo wokuthi sibheke ukuthi uMnyango noMnyango wenzani ukwakha amathuba emisebenzi kubantu bakithi. Siyabonga. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

 

[Prof N M KHUBISA: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, there are two important things people are complaining about. They say they do not get information from the department when these projects are done. Firstly, they think that maybe that is caused by the fact that they cannot spend time with the staff to talk to them from time to time. Secondly, they are saying with regard to the reconstruction of the legacy projects, like the one of Ncome as well as the other areas, they do not get opportunities to empower themselves as well. What is the hon Minister saying about that?

 

The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: Thank you, hon member, though you started your first question and stopped leaving it incomplete, I was still listening when you stopped leaving it incomplete. But with what you are referring to, in the areas with the legacy projects, these are the issues that receive first priority from us. You will understand that there are areas that I mentioned before and those that I did not mention. The first thing that we look at in an area is how to create job opportunities, in the area where these legacy projects are being reconstructed. That way, people from those areas will continue complaining hon member because not everybody will be satisfied and that not everybody in each and every area will be accommodated by working in this project or job opportunities but we emphasise that those who are available at that given time should get those jobs because in all the government departments we have a policy of looking into what each government department is doing in creating job opportunities for our people. Thank you.]

 

Particulars regarding staffing and equipping of public health facilities

 

531.        Dr P Maesela (ANC) asked the Minister of Health:

 

1. Whether there is a shortage of staff in most public health institutions; if not, what is the current state public health facilities in relation to human resource; if so, what (a) is the average vacancy rate of public health facilities and (b) plans are in place to address the specified vacancy rate;

 

(2)        what plans are in place to ensure that public health institutions are well refurbished and re-equipped with modern equipment and technologies, particularly built facilities?                                                                                      NO4602E

 

The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Deputy Speaker, hon member Ntate Maesela, I think I have answered this question many times before. However, it always comes back in many different forms, through questions for written reply in this Parliament, through media queries, press conferences, in parliamentary portfolio committees or select committees. At all times, my answers have always been consistent. Yes, hon member, there is definitely a shortage of staff in most public health institutions.

 

Firstly, and most importantly, there is a general shortage of health workers, globally. We actually even know the figure. According to the World Health Organisation, there is a shortage of 4 million health workers, worldwide, and unless this fundamental issue is resolved, the question will keep on recurring. Unfortunately, this global shortage differs from continent to continent, from region to region, and from country to country. Even within countries themselves, there is further bad news. The sub-Saharan region, where we are, is the hardest hit, and the World Health Organisation has actually declared it a special crisis area in terms of staffing.

 

This global shortage explains why even highly developed countries are still actively recruiting doctors from all over the world. The USA, Europe, Australia, and even rich Middle Eastern countries are actively recruiting doctors and nurses from elsewhere. In this aggressive recruitment, developing countries with lower GDPs are always the losers and are very badly affected. This state of affairs prompted the World Health Organisation to pass several resolutions at the World Health Assembly in Geneva to try and medicate this issue. One of the resolutions is that developed countries must not actively recruit nurses and doctors from developing countries.

 

At the Commonwealth Ministerial Meeting of Health, which was held on the sidelines of the World Health Assembly, in Geneva, in 2011, Kenya even proposed a motion that for every doctor recruited to a developed country from a developing country that developed country should pay back every cent that was spent in training that doctor. Unfortunately, that motion was defeated. Closer to home, SADC has passed a motion that is directed at South Africa. It simply says that South Africa, being the biggest economy in the region, must not actively recruit health workers from fellow SADC members.

 

In 1998, the World Health Organisation adopted the Alma-Ata Declaration, which was declared at the small town of Alma-Ata in the former Soviet Union. Article 2 of that declaration states:

The existing gross inequality in the health status of the people, particularly between developed and developing countries, as well as within countries, is politically, socially and economically unacceptable, and is therefore of common concern to all countries.

 

This glaring disparity that leads to gross inequality is most glaring with human resources. Back home, this inequality is glaring between the public and the private sectors. However, there are also inequalities within the public sector, itself, from province to province, with predominantly the rural provinces being the hardest hit. Yes, because more than 80% of doctors are in the private sector, serving only 16% of the population. Just over 20% are in the public sector, serving 84% of the population.

 

To address this issue, in 2011, we spoke with all eight medical schools, telling them to take in more students than they usually do and we sponsored them. We paid them extra money for that. We also dramatically increased the number of students training in Cuba from the 60 and 80 that we used to send to 1 000.

 

We are also trying to expand our medical school. We started with the demerger of Medunsa and the establishment of the Sefako Makgatho Health Sciences University. We are also exploring the possibility of training in countries other than Cuba, and this process has started.

 

To deal with this issue, last month, when declaring their Sustainable Development Goals, the United Nations stated in Goal 3(c):

 

Substantially increase health financing and the recruitment, development, training and retention of the health workforce in developing countries, especially in least developed countries and small-island developing states.

 

Thank you.

 

Dr P MAESELA: Hon Deputy Speaker, since public health delivery is the main thrust of the Department of Health’s service delivery mechanism and alleviation of the human resource shortage, what priority is the Minister giving to this problem, presently? Thank you.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Letona, o botsitse potso mona. A ke o mo phete, ntate, ha a utlwa. [Minister, he asked a question. Please repeat the question for him, hon member, he didn’t hear it.]

The MINISTER OF HEALTH: I apologise, Deputy Speaker, I got distracted. I am sorry.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Answer the question, then.

 

The MINISTER OF HEALTH: No, no, no. I didn’t hear it. I want him to repeat. Thank you. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Sorry?

 

The MINISTER OF HEALTH: No, no, no. I am apologising, Deputy Speaker. I didn’t hear the follow-up question. I am asking him to repeat it. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, I did.

 

Dr P MAESELA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I asked the Minister: Since public health delivery is the main thrust of the Department of Health’s service delivery mechanism and alleviation of the human resource shortage, what priority is the Minister giving to this problem, presently?

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Deputy Speaker, just before the Minister answers, I think Parliament must take exception to Ministers who don’t listen when their turn to listen comes ... [Interjections.] ... and who go and play morabaraba with other Ministers.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No. [Interjections.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: It can’t be. We must take exception. I’m surprised that you did not take exception to that. You must speak very harshly with him. We have had to waste time and a question has had to be repeated because he was playing morabaraba with another Minister. [Interjections.] If it was another Member of Parliament somewhere else, you would have quoted the Rules or even called security. [Interjections.] You must be hard on the Ministers. You must take the work of Parliament seriously. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member ...

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Please. Please!

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, please take your seat. Hon Minister, go ahead and answer the question, please.

 

The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Deputy Speaker, I think I did apologise for what happened. There is no reason for such overkill. I apologised and I’m still apologising. However, I was not playing morabaraba. [Interjections.]

 

Hon member, I thought I had spent time outlining this problem about our priorities. I said our priorities are divided into the short term and long term. In the short term, I said we started in 2011, encouraging universities to take more medical students than they had usually taken, and they have done so. It started with the University of the Witwatersrand in 2011, when they took 40 extra students from disadvantaged communities who, in terms of the university scores, would never have been admitted.

 

We gave them money for that. We gave them R8 million. All the other medical schools then followed suit. As a short-term measure, we are encouraging them to admit students from rural areas who don’t usually get admitted to university.

 

I then said that, in the medium term, we increased the number of students training in Cuba. We sent 60 at a time, from 1998. From 2011, we sent 80. From 2013, we have been sending 1 000 students to Cuba in order to try and resolve this issue. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

 

I further said we are in discussions with other countries around the world to see if they can’t take students from South Africa and train them. Last week, I was in Russia, where they have opened special medical schools, which are teaching in English. [Interjections.] They are training students from lots of African countries. I don’t share the ideology of hating Russia with you. I don’t.

 

We are very much in power, and we deal with Russia. In addition, other African countries are dealing with Russia. Russia has opened medical schools which teach in English. Many other African countries are there, and we are going to go. [Interjections.] If the countries you share ideology with open up for medical students – if! – we will send them there. Just show me the country, and we will send them there. [Interjections.] So, you can’t make a remark like that. Thank you.

 

Mr M L W FILTANE: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, have you perhaps though of aligning education with the needs of your department? Why has your department closed so many training facilities in the recent past?

 

I am one of those people who put to you a question for written reply, but the response that I got from your department was so disappointing, I haven’t even taken it to the person who put the question to me to process through to you. I was given no details when it comes to the when and how of facilities that are being considered.

 

Then, to make matters worse, I was quoted a programme called Operation Phakisa, and that was it. As for when facilities were to be improved in Butterworth Hospital, the response you gave me in black and white went nowhere.

 

Lastly, do you have the money? That’s what we want to know. Do you have the money for providing the facilities? If so, when are you providing the facilities? If not, why not? What are you doing about making sure you have the budget? Thank you. [Time expired.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No. Take your seat, hon member. You will get your chance. No, take your seat first. One person at a time.

 

The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Deputy Speaker, I wish I understood that question. It’s so muddled and mixed up. He is mixing up a lot of things. He is talking about Operation Phakisa in the training of health staff. He’s talking about money for facilities ...

 

Mr M L W FILTANE: On a point of order, Deputy Speaker: Operation Phakisa is mentioned in the letter that I got from you as a reply. I can go to my office and bring it here, now. [Interjections.] That is why I say it made no sense. I couldn’t even take it to the person who asked me. It came from your office. [Interjections.]

 

An HON MEMBER: How embarrassing!

 

The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Deputy Speaker, perhaps it would help me to know which question he is talking about, because I cannot remember. [Interjections.] Firstly, he must remind me whether I wrote about Operation Phakisa in the training of health personnel, because that is not what Operation Phakisa is all about.

 

Secondly, I think that if by saying training facilities he is referring to nursing colleges, I have answered that question many times. The problem of nursing colleges arose when a decision was taken to start training nurses at universities. The departments of health in the provinces started ignoring nursing colleges. We are actually reversing that. I have met with the chancellors of all the universities to discuss this issue. We have a plan to renovate the nursing colleges which were just neglected, not really closed down - quite a number of them are still there – to try and increase the number of nurses that are being trained.

 

As for the story of Operation Phakisa, I would like clarity. At what juncture was it raised? I ask because I don’t remember doing that. I might have forgotten, but it has nothing to do with training. Thank you.

 

Mr N L S KWANKWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, may I have your attention, please?

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes.

 

Mr N L S KWANKWA: Well, the Minister asked to be reminded about something. I think it’s only fair that we allow the member to remind him so that he can answer the question fully. The latter part of the question wasn’t responded to.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes. I have passed that. I don’t think ...

 

Mr N L S KWANKWA: Hayi, kodwa uyamosha, Somlomo. [Uwele-wele.] [No, Speaker, you are messing up. [Interjections.]]

 

Ms D CARTER: Deputy Speaker, before I ask the question, I would first like to refer to your trying to rap me over the knuckles earlier on. I was trying to rise on a point of clarity with you, Deputy Speaker. I know the procedure – that only one person asks a question. I do know the Rules.

 

Minister, taking into consideration that about four years ago, it was said that about 60% of nursing staff in South Africa were over the age of 50, can you, if it is possible, tell us today what the average age of nursing staff is in South Africa; and, if you do have percentages, what is the percentage of nursing staff over the age of 50? Thank you.

 

The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Yes, hon Deputy Speaker, it is true, and we are aware that this matter has not only been reported in nursing. It has been reported among engineers and lecturers at universities, and so on. Within the nursing fraternity, it is true that most of them are of that age, but I didn’t bring the actual percentages of who is beyond the age of 50 with me. I can go and get them for you but I don’t have them off the top of my head. Thank you very much.

Dr H C VOLMINK: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, the state of our public health institutions and the quality of the services that they deliver to our citizens are undoubtedly linked to the performance of our provincial departments of health. In the last financial year, six provincial departments, all ANC-run, received qualified audit opinions, with findings.

 

Now, you’ve said before that MECs are chosen by premiers – you have therefore effectively washed your hands of their poor performance. Yet, one of your national department’s objectives in the current strategic plan is to have seven unqualified audit opinions for provincial departments by 2017-18.

 

What specific actions are you going to take to address one of the root causes of these poor audit outcomes, as identified by the Auditor-General as “the lack of consequences for poor performance and transgressions”? Thank you.

 

HON MEMBERS: Hear! Hear!

 

The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Deputy Speaker, I assume this is a new question, but I am prepared to answer it, because the question is about human resources. He is talking about audit outcomes.

I never washed my hands of my responsibility for this. The issue you are arguing about was the issue of firing an MEC. I have said that many times, even in portfolio committee meetings - because there was the demand that I fire a certain MEC. I said it is not Ministers who hire and fire MECs. In terms of the Constitution, it is done by the premiers. That’s why I say I was not washing my hands of it.

 

On the issue of audits, we are taking responsibility. We have actually established a forum of CFOs. We meet with the CFOs of all the provinces. The biggest weakness we are finding is that in quite a number of the provinces, these posts are vacant. That is another problem, because I am not the one who appoints them. We have been trying to push for that. There are quite a number of vacancies in this area because there are very few CFOs in the country, but we are taking responsibility for that.

 

Last week, I met the Auditor-General about this issue. The Auditor-General’s office explained to me which province is doing what. I said that in the next Minmec meeting, I would sit with them, one by one, and go through this issue, but as for the issue of washing my hands of it, I have never done so.

 

As for the issue of firing MECs – because we keep on repeating it – it is the job of premiers, not of Ministers. Thank you very much.

 

Additional amount required to provide sufficient university subsidies and funding to National Student Financial Aid Scheme

 

541.        Prof B Bozzoli (DA) asked the Minister of Higher Education and Training:

 

What additional amount does his department require to provide sufficient (a) subsidies to universities and (b) funding to the National Student Financial Aid Scheme (NSFAS) in order to ensure that, without negatively affecting the quality of education, there are no further fee increases in the next two financial years and there is fee-free university education for all students who qualify for financial assistance under the NSFAS at universities? NO4615E

 

MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Hon Deputy Speaker, in order to ensure an appropriately funded higher education sector, in terms of international comparable benchmark funding levels, an additional amount of R19,7 billion per annum is required in the baseline for university subsidies, excluding the National Student financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, with an annual increment for inflation and enrollment growth, to meet the National Development Plan, NDP, targets.

 

To ensure that 25,5% of student enrollments are funded through the NSFAS, which is our assessment of the percentage of students who qualify for NSFAS, to cover the full cost of study loans for poor and working class students, an additional amount of R37 billion is required in the baseline over the 2016-17 to 2018-19 Medium-Term Expenditure Framework. This would have to increase year-on-year to match inflation as well as growth in the system, to meet the NDP targets.

 

I must also say that it is unacceptable for hon Bozzoli not to check with my diary an issue a statement yesterday ... [Interjections.] ... to say that I am not going to answer questions. I am here to answer questions because I am not scared to confront the DA on any matter that relates to the Department of Higher Education and Training. Thank you.

 

Mr I OLLIS: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: The Minister himself sent out a message to Parliament to say that he is not coming. He sent it. [Interjections.]

Prof B BOZZOLI: Deputy Speaker, thank you, Minister, I am very glad you read my statements. We heard from your department this morning that at least R475 million will be required in this financial year and not in the 2016 financial year, to keep universities, particularly historical disadvantaged ones, from going bankrupt in early 2016, as a result of the fees freeze. We were also told that you would be taking this money from other priorities in your department, in particular, the National Skills Fund as well as from the R2 billion grant, to develop historical black universities, HBUs.

 

This can - to use your own words - only be characterised as robbing the poor to give to the poor. This is a shocking precedent. What we have now is the President decreeing that there will be no fees and the poor are paying for it.

 

Minister, why have you not called for funds to be reassigned from frivolous and unnecessary expenditures such as a new car for Minister Motsoaledi to the point of R1,2 million in the mid-term budget, which is under consideration now? Thank you. [Interjections.]

 

MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Hon Deputy Speaker, I have really given up on the opportunism of the DA. [Interjections.] The question that she is asking was answered this morning in the meeting of the committees, to say that there is R2 billion over the next five years, to address issues of quality in historically disadvantaged institutions. For purposes of alleviating the first four months of next year, we are going to take from that money. That money will be returned in the outer years. It is a five-year programme. [Interjections.] We are committing that we are not going to deduct from the money of the Historical Disadvantaged Individuals, HDIs, in a manner that will actually prejudice them.

 

You can only say we must take money from whatever you want because you are not the ruling party, you are not the government, you are just grandstanding and being opportunistic. Government does not have a single focus or priority. There are multiple priority areas. This morning, we had a much more sensible discussion than this kind of posture that hon Bozzoli is engaging in, this afternoon in the House. Thank you. [Interjections.]

 

MINISTER OF HEALTH: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: I am troubled about the question that was directed to Minister Nzimande, in which my name was mentioned. That also happened yesterday on another issue. I don’t understand it. It is about me, but they are talking about other issues. Hon Maynier raised this issue. It is said that I bought a car of R1,2 million. I don’t have such a car. [Interjections.] I don’t know what they are talking about. I never bought any car for R1,2. Even when I was speaking, Maynier kept on doing that. [Interjections.] What is that? [Interjections.]

 

CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: The hon Minister does not have the latitude to get up and make speeches in defense. We had a ruling yesterday in the House that these issues are matters of debate; they are not points of order. The Minister cannot be allowed to do that, otherwise everyone of us, every time someone disagrees, is going to get up and say that. That is not a point of order and I would like you to rule whether that is a point of order or not.

 

CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: There is a lie that was told to this House about the house of the Deputy Minister that was being renovated. [Interjections.] There was an agreement in the House that that matter must be taken to the Ethics Committee because it is misleading the nation and the House and with regard to this one, the lie must be taken to the committee. [Interjections.] A lie is a lie. It does not matter who tells it; it is a lie. [Interjections.]

 

Ms D CARTER: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: I would really say that the Chief Whip of the Majority Party is out of order. As he is, if you want to accept this, I will bring you the proof that it is, in fact, in the media and reported by the department, which I would have put in a statement tomorrow, that money of R15 million and R10 million was spent on renovating houses. I will bring you the proof. I will bring you the evidence. It is in the media and it was also answered by the department. [Interjections.] [Applause.] We want an apology and a withdrawal. Stop using the Ethics Committee for Ministers and staff to hide behind. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Deputy Speaker, I suspect that the mistake is not hon Aaron, in terms of the R1,2 million. I suspect it is the car that was bought for the hon Minister of Higher Education and Training, hon Blade Nzimande. He is well known for liking very lucrative cars. [Laughter.] He is the General Secretary of the South African Communist Party. [Laughter.]

 

DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Members, we have ruled before. Let us stick to the Rules and communicating ...

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: I thought that you are going to make the ruling yourself, without anyone calling you to order. When the Chief Whip of the Majority Party was speaking, he kept on saying that it is a lie and every time we mention the word lie here, you instruct us to withdraw that word. You then say we must choose different words to say that people are lying, like they normally do.

 

So, will you please instruct the Chief Whip of the Majority Party to withdraw the word because you have done so with us on many occasions? So, will you please do that, so that we are able to proceed or when we speak and want to reflect the fact they are lying, we will consistently use that word, like the Chief Whip of the Majority Party has.

 

DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, in the first place, you are very presumptuous. You rise and you interrupt me in the middle of me speaking ... [Interjections.] ... and you are already giving me instructions. [Interjections.] No, I was speaking here when he interrupted me. You cannot instruct me. [Interjections.] Hon member, it is personal because you are out of order, in the first place.

 

Hon members, in any case, it is incorrect for us to use the point of order in an abusive manner by raising political statements, when you know that you are not raising a point of order, but, in fact, making a political statement. You know that it is incorrect. We have said that before and that is incorrect.

 

Hon Chief Whip, you know it is incorrect to use a word that you have used about a member lying. You know you can’t say that. [Interjections.] Order, order!

 

CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: I withdraw.

 

DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you, hon Chief Whip. [Interjections.] This is out of order. Every time, we advise you that members have an opportunity to make their political statements in spaces and opportunities created for that and in time allocated for that. When a point of order is used for that, it becomes meaningless. So, please let us not do that. I really want to stress that.

 

CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: I am assuming that you are passing the point. I gladly withdrew the word, but the main thrust of what I was talking about has not been dealt with. [Interjections.}

 

DEPUTY SPEAKER: The reference?

 

CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: The claim that the hon Minister of Health has bought a car of R1,2 million. I am saying that I withdraw the word lie. However, the substantive issue that the claim is misleading and wrong and therefore must be withdrawn, has not been dealt with. [Interjections.]

 

Mr M S MBATHA: Hon Deputy Speaker, can I start?

DEPUTY SPEAKER: Just hold on, hon member. No, hon Carter spoke about another matter, all together. It is a very different matter.

 

Prof B BOZZOLI: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: The R1,2 million, I think it was, appears in the adjusted budget’s documents that were submitted to Parliament, last week. Thank you. [Interjections.]

 

DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes. Hon members, I am going to request the Table to work on this one for the Presiding Officer so that we return to the House with a ruling. [Interjections.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Deputy Speaker, no, I don’t think we must be confused. Often, when points like these are made, the Presiding Officer says that it must return to House as a substantial motion. It does not say to hon Bozzoli or to the Hon Chief Whip. That is how we deal with this matter. You can’t just say someone is misleading the House. We don’t know what you based it on or what the other claim is based on. So, there is nothing that the Table must do. You must be consistent. Either they or she must come back with a substantial motion and we move on. If somebody bought a car of R1,2 million with the people’s money, they must fall. [Interjections.]

 

CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, may I address you in terms of Rule 44? Members of this House have freedom of expression in the House and may make statements and not be subjected to the type of inquisition that they are now and have immunity from prosecution.

 

However, I have the Minister’s budget in front of me and it says vehicles for the Minister and Deputy Minister, in line with the Ministerial Handbook under, Machinery and Equipment, in your budget, R1,2 million. I suggest you go and have a look at your budget, Minister. [Interjections.]

 

MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Speaker, I never queried any budget’s audit. All I said was that I never bought a car for R1,2 million. I don’t have it. There is no car for R1,2 million in my department. He is talking about the budget. I don’t know which budget he is talking about. I am talking about a car for R1,2 million. [Interjections.] It is not there and I want you to go and check.

 

Mr N SINGH: Deputy Speaker, I rise on a point of order: The issue before us was a question to the Minister of Higher Education and Training. Now, we seem to be allowing a debate within a debate on another matter. If there is another matter and any member has any problem with any other Minister, put in a substantive question or put in a motion and we can debate that. I think we are eating into question time, which is very limited and I think you should order that we proceed.

 

The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Deputy Speaker, much as it pains me, I have to agree with hon Ndlozi and hon Singh. They are correct that a substantive motion should have been brought. This matter of Minister Motsoaledi, whether or not is in the adjustments budget was sneaked in and directly refer to him as though as some form of misdemeanour had been committed. That must come by way of a substantive motion and you need to assist us on that matter. [Interjections.]

 

An HON MEMBER: Nonsense!

 

Mr I OLLIS: Deputy Speaker, we are not allowed to bring substantive motions on a budget item. It is in the budget. What kind of a substantive motion can you bring on a budget line item? That would make a mockery of the system.

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: I am rising on the same point hon Deputy Speaker, I too also I agree with the hon member from the EFF in relation to substantive motions. A substantive motion is brought in when you are basically impugning something against the character of a person. So, whether it is in the context of a budget; whether as a statement in Parliament or in any other context as long as you impute something negative on the character of another person, you are obliged in terms of the Rules to bring it through a substantive motion. Therefore I ask you hon Deputy Speaker to rule on this matter.16:10:50

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members that is a correct interpretation of the Rule. We will come back to it as I indicated. We will come back to it.

 

Mr M S MBATHA: Deputy Speaker, my Question to our yellow communist here; Minister this morning you said the qualifying definition of for a family’s dock household to qualify for National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, is R120 000 per year. My Question is knowing the state of South Africans that it has been growing poorly in particular around the families that could not actually reach either R150 000 or R130 000. Do you still think this definition is appropriate to access higher education for a poor family? And lastly, when will South Africans see a fee free higher education?

 

UNGQONGQOSHE WEMFUNDO EPHAKEME NOKUQEQESHA: Sekela Somlomo, asingasukelani nale ndoda. [Uhleko.] Uyabona uma ungisukela kukhona lapho ngizokuyisa khona nami. [Uhleko.] Ngoba siphuma endaweni eyodwa siyimihlathi eyazanayo. [Ubuwelewele.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

 

[The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Deputy Speaker, let us not start with each other with this man. [Laughter.] You see if you start with me, you know where we will meet. [Laughter.] Because we are from the same area, we know each other well. [Interjections.]]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: I rise on a point of order.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What’s your point of order hon member?

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Deputy Speaker, I expect Bra Blade Nzimande to know that he cannot address hon members directly, even threatening them that you know where we will meet. He must address the House or address hon members through you. Please call him to order because it is not allowed. Please. He must withdraw the threat of saying you know where we will meet, because you always make us withdraw such things as well. Please allow Bra Blade Nzimande before he goes on to withdraw. Thank you very much.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, withdraw saying Bra Blade, he is hon member Nzimande.

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Respectfully, without the respect I can master, the Rules say all I need to do is not call him by a name. And where I come from if I say Bra, I respect you. I promise you. That’s what the Rule say. This is Bra blade Nzimande. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, just behave.

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: I’m behaving.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Nzimande.

Mr M Q NDLOZI: If you have a problem I will ...

 

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Hon Deputy Speaker, I did not threaten anyone. That is why he is sitting down and keeping quiet.

 

I did address this matter that we have sat with this R122 000 means test on NSFAS for a very long time, and we are reviewing it because indeed, we did have a challenge that someone who earns R180 000 or a student who comes from a family income of R180 000 per annum or even R200 000 cannot afford university. That is a fact. We said we are reviewing that. But we also warned that reviewing that in the end will have to be a collective decision of government led by the Minister of Finance because it has got financial implications. If you shift the means test you make it a higher family income it will have implications. But, within the context of the pressures that we experience we have undertaken a review on when we are going to have ... let us correct this, it is not free higher education for everyone. It is free higher education for the poor, at least until the attainment of the first tertiary qualification. Don’t start and twist it now. The President has already announced in response to the student’s protest in particular, but more importantly, in line with our own ANC government’s commitment to free higher education for the poor. He is considering appointing a commission to answer in to all those particular Questions. Because, the issue of free higher education for the poor is ANC position and has always been an ANC position. Thank you very much.

 

An HON MEMBER: It is not true.

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: I rise on a point of order.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Honourable, please this is a supplementary Question and so on.

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: But I can call order. It is allowed in terms of ...

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order? I am just reminding you hon member.

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: The Minister in his response, he says that our member of Parliament hon Mbatha is twisting something. We are not twisting anything. It is an ideological commitment of the EFF ... that there must be free education for all. If the policy is free education for the poor you must ...

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, you see hon member? This is not a point of order.

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Do not impose on us your policy perspective.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You see what you are doing now hon member?

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: We are calling for free education for all and that is what we stand on. So, you must not say we are twisting. We are not twisting anything. We are articulating a way forward in terms of what should happen ... [inaudible.] [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, you are deliberately defying a request not to do that, and it is wrong. You are not going to say this again.

 

Mr Y CASSIM: Hon Minister, you have just admitted that you will be taking money earmarked for quality at Historically Disadvantaged Institutions, HDIs, to make up the shortfall in the current financial year. And, every single time you are asked around the Question of the underfunding of institutions in the department, you grand stand and say you will always go and ask for more money; yet this morning your CFO says that you are not going to be asking for money in the adjustment process. There is currently an adjustment process taking place. You are not asking for anything in the current financial year to be adjusted for the shortfall. You are taking money away from quality in Historically Disadvantaged Institutions. Why is that the case and why do you keep grand standing and say that you are asking for money and that is not the case?

 

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Hon member ...

 

... nawe ungasho ukuthi ngiyadelela ngoba mina nawe siyazana kakhulu ngithenga esitolo esibizwa ngokuthi kukwa-Cassim kwaDambuza. Ngiyabazi o-Cassim. [Uhleko.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

 

[... do not say I am rude also, because we know each other very well, we grew up together buying from a store called Cassim’s from KwaDambuza. I know the Cassim family. [Laughter.]]

 

We are not going to be taking money from the HDIs, we said it is a five year process. We will use that money to cushion them for the next four months. But, in the outer years we will make sure that the HDIs do not lose that money. That is our commitment. That is my commitment to the process; because we will have to find money to deal with this. We were talking about the next four months. Because even your richer universities will borrow against their own reserves. They will bring that money back when the money comes back to them. You must wait until we conclude the process. We will tell you where the money will come from. Thank you very much.

 

Nksz S MCHUNU: Sihlalo, Ngqongqoshe, sibonga kakhulu ngemizamo kahulumeni oholwa nguKhongolose yokwenza imfundo ifinyeleleke kubo bonke abafundi njengokusho kukaSomqulo Wenkululeko [Freedom Charter]. Umbuzo wami wokuqala uthi ... (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

 

[Ms S MCHUNU: Chairperson, Minister, we thank the ANC-led government for their work with regard to making education accessible to all students as it is stated in the Freedom Charter. My first question is ...]

 

... what monitoring mechanism will be put in place to ensure that the government gets value for money invested in the students?

 

My second Question is that I would like to know whether the Minister will engage the relevant Minister on the National Credit Act to find a better way to enable NSFAS to recover loans from previous beneficiaries which will go a long way in increasing the skills revenue without begging them to sign consent. I thank you.

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Deputy Speaker, before the hon Minister. I want to appeal can you not allow that comrade who ... I mean hon Boroto who is waiting to preside. I beg you Deputy Speaker. We will even give you more salary. I don’t know ... she always disorganises the House. I appeal. Boroto needs to fall I mean hon Boroto cannot preside. This is an important session. We really need peace and tranquillity in the House. I request hon Deputy Speaker. Just go on doing your job. We elected you. We did not elect ... or did we elect her? I don’t remember. I appeal to you. Please, not today.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Take your seat hon member.

 

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Deputy Speaker. Hon Boroto is fit to preside in this House. She is the House Chairperson. Therefore, she is fit to preside and that is what she is going to do now. [Interjections.]

 

An HON MEMBER: Safa nkosi yami! Safa! [Oh my word we are finished! We are finished!]

The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: House Chair ...

 

... siyabonga ngombuzo oqhamuka elungwini elihloniphekile lakwaMchunu. [... thank you for your question, hon Mchunu.]

 

The first thing is that we have agreed with the university community that we will have to look very closely at the cost drivers of higher education. As well as delve of mechanisms for reprioritisations, tighter budgeting and focussing on the main business of our universities in order to ensure value for money. In fact, one of the issues raised by the current student protests require that institutions themselves look very closely at how they use their money in order to ensure that we derive. Part of the transformation programme must focus on this. Even the fact that the money we give to universities how is it being used to advance an agenda for transformation.

 

I assume that the second Question that the hon member Mchunu was asking relates to collection of money recovery by NSFAS. I have asked in particular the new chairperson of NSFAS Mr Nxasane that he needs to prioritise this issue. Amongst other things we will work with the SA Revenue in discussion with the Minister of Finance to actually identify those who benefited from NSFAS who are supposed to be paying back. It is within that context also that we will look at the National Credit Act to ensure that first of all we are in line with that Act and also look at where that particular Act could in an unintended way be hindering us from collecting monies that are owed by NSFAS beneficiaries. Thank you.

 

Mechanism to deal with sports federations defaulting on commitments in relation to transformation score cards

 

533.        Ms B N Dlulane (ANC) asked the Minister of Sport and Recreation:

 

In light of the fact that rugby, cricket, football, netball and athletics have signed the transformation score cards with him and that the other 12 sport federations are still to do so, what mechanisms has he put in place to deal with federations that default in their commitments to reach targets set in their respective transformation score cards?                                                                                                                                              NO4604E

 

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Hon House Chair, the remedies and the mechanisms for enforcement of the agreement are already available within the current legal framework. Amongst others include the following; awarding of national colours; deregistration of sport body; prohibition of bidding and hosting of major events; political support; and premium for sponsorship endorsement. Thank you.

 

Nks B N DLULANE: Enkosi Sihlalo, mandibulele Mphathiswa ohloniphekileyo ngempendulo yakho ecace gca okwe kati emhlophe ehlungwini. Mphathiswa ohloniphekileyo, ingaba uyaneliseka kusini na ngenkqubela-phambili eyenzeka kwi-Eminent Persons Group, EPG? (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

 

[Ms B N DLULANE: Thank you Chairperson, let me thank the hon Minister for his answer which is very clear. Hon Minister, are you happy with the progress that is happening at the Eminent Persons Group, EPG?]

 

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: We are very happy with the progress the Eminent Persons Group have made because this group’s body derived its mandate from the National Sports Plan and the mandate of the national sports Indaba which was held seven years ago. The work that they have done to date include: evaluation and monitoring of federations on all the issues that I have mentioned and also to do an annual evaluation of the barometer for all the federations when it comes to transformation.

Mr K P SITHOLE: Hon Minister a great deal of wasteful expenditure originated especially from comrade contractors. No, I am sorry. Hon Minister how does your department measure the success or otherwise of holistic transformation of sport in South Africa? Would you be of the opinion that transformation is moving quickly enough? If so why and if not, why not? Kindly provide full digits. Thank you.

 

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Yes, my department does not have wasteful expenditure. That is why we got a clean audit. So, we do not have corruption and anything of those things and clean audit is an unqualified report without matters of emphasis. That is what it means.

 

On the question that you have mentioned, I would not say that they have moved entirely in terms of transformation. We have federations that have not transformed and there is a whole lot of factors that we have looked at that have come through the report of the EPG. These include the lack of development and integrated approach to sports development and elite sports in the republic. In the past five years, through the adoption of the National Sports Plan, which has been costed we know that South Africa in the next 10 years, in the context of the National Development Plan, NDP, will be a different country all together.

 

We judged ourselves with first world standards when we were in the third world but we know that in the next 10 years we will compete better with the likes of Kenya. In the next 10 years, we will be next door to Australia, England and the first world. If we do all the things that we said we must do in the National Sports Plan that include infrastructure development; developing community sport; ensure that school sport is roll-out in all our schools and it is interlinked to our vision of developing talent and ensuring that we are able to reap the fruits out of that particular process. This must not just be development for the sake of it and so forth. So, I would not say to you today that I am over the moon about transformation but I can tell you one that we have got a very comprehensive approach to transformation.

 

Like I said in the answer that those who failed to transform based on the agreements that I have signed from May 2015, and that include rugby, cricket, football, netball and athletics, in the next year or five years to come, failure for them to meet our agreement in terms of transformation, there will be consequences for that.

Mr M S MALATSI: Thank you Chairperson, Minister I am glad that you mentioned infrastructural development and community development because one of the most meaningful ways of driving transformation is investment in sport facilities at community level and in schools. However, the majority of municipalities and provincial governments mostly under the ANC are not spending allocated funds for sport facilities and one such clear example is the Mpumalanga province led by the premier league D D Mabuza who is on record saying that his provincial government will not spending any cent on sport facilities as they will be redirecting it to water and sanitation. So, what measures are you putting in place to ensure that your fellow comrades in provincial governments spend monies for sport facilities so that we can enhance participation in sport and allow young people to participate in various sporting codes in their own communities and in their schools? Thank you, Chair.

 

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: I think we have made progress with regard to building a case for sport in South Africa. You will know that even in the Western Cape which is by the way not your government, you only won it temporally by vote, but it is not your government. [Interjections.] We will clinch that government back very soon but I am not here to politic because you know Malatsi, hon Malatsi that the Western Cape government is equally faced with the challenges that all other provinces faced with regard to infrastructure development of sport. The most important thing with regard to the question that you are raising is that we have made a case to the point that government and the executive agree on the question of dealing with infrastructure and allocation of sports a percentage of the Municipal Infrastructure Grant, MIG.

 

Local government is faced with a number of challenges and that money; most of the time is taken by those challenges that are faced by different communities. Our government has recognised that there is a need to re-allocate that money back to sports in our endeavour to redefine the model for funding for sport. I am confident that in the next coming financial year, you are going to see a roll out of massive roll out of sport infrastructure from the MIG. That includes the Western Cape and all the other provinces throughout the country.

 

One of the challenges that we are faced with is that provinces from their own financial setups do not allocate money for sport and we have called for that to happen. It is only Gauteng that does that. We need to ensure that in all provinces that include the Western Cape do allocate the money sufficiently in their own budgets for sports development in their different provinces. If I were to politic and do all the other things we will miss the point, thank you very much.

 

Mr M M DLAMINI: Thank you Minister, yesterday on a Radio Metro show, you said you will concern yourself about transformation of rugby in this country and you also said that South African Rugby Union, Saru, is doing a great job in terms of transforming rugby in this country. What we saw during the Rugby World Cup was ...

 

... bekungabafana babeLungu nje ababegcwele laphayana ... [... just a lot of white boys there ...]

 

...on the field. Now, the question to you is that, is it not your responsibility to see that the previously lily white sports codes are transformed in this country? Do you have deadlines in this transformation programme of yours? Why is the ANC objecting to Tokyo Sexwale’s bid for Federation of International football Association, FIFA, Presidency? Thank you.

 

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Well, I do not think that the ANC has objected to the nomination of anybody for FIFA. With regard to the question that you have asked, ...

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: House Chair, on a point of order: It is on the Parliament records that the ANC in Parliament objected to Tokyo Sexwale’s bid for FIFA Presidency; to assist the Minister to give us an intelligent answer. Thank you.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: Ms M G BOROTO: Unfortunately, that is a point of debate and not a point of order.

 

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: First and foremost when it comes to Radio Metro in terms of yesterday’s platform, all what was said there is not truthful. I did not decline participation. I actually questioned the content of the debate because the discussion was going to be about performance. Performance means the technique and whether or not the coach employed the right strategy and tactics to win the world cup for us and there were experts and analysts to do that. Secondly, in terms of the statutes that govern us and including our own sport law in South Africa, it does not allow a Minister to run SARU. That will be equated to interference and that ill equally lead to the banning of our federation in international participation.

 

What the Minister has done is to put a policy for implementation before SARU, which is not negotiable of transformation. That is what is important. I am ready at any time to go to the studios and speak to Robert Marawa or whoever and clarify the issues before the nation in terms of the concerns which are genuine about transformation and the fact that we need to speed up transformation including rugby. Of course there are South Africans who are experts in rugby and have raised their dissatisfaction with regard to the coach. I put that question before SARU to answer it.

 

When they decide to hire or fire the coach it is their responsibility not to write open letters but to face the nation and stand up to the decisions that they take to maintain or to fire the coach. It will not be the Minister of sport. What I want from them is transformation and I knew very well that in this world cup having signed an agreement with SARU from May 2015 that this squad of the Springbok to the world cup would have not reached 50% of the demographics set in my targets with them. That is going to happen in terms of our own agreement in the next five years. Next rugby world cup, which will take place in 2019, I expect that rudimentarily, upwards and so on organically, we should not be debating transformation in that team and that is what I am about and what we are pursuing. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Steps to prevent wasteful expenditure in relation to building contractors

 

530.        Mr L P Khoarai (ANC) asked the Minister of Human Settlements:

 

What steps are being taken by her department to ensure that wasteful expenditure emanating from contractors not availing themselves to finish off projects for which they have already been paid is stopped?                                                               NO4600E

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: I am not going to answer the howlers; my business is not for howling [Interjections.]. The reply is as follows Chairperson ... [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G BOROTO): Order!, hon members. Hon Deputy Minister, please take your seat, hon Hlophe ...

 

Ms H O HLOPHE: Chair, on a point of order: The Deputy Minister is calling the members of Parliament howlers, so can she clarify who are the howlers here.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you very much hon member.

 

Ms H O HLOPHE: She must withdraw that and respect us.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Hlophe, the hon Deputy Minister did not specify who the howlers are [Interjections.] and that is why I did not even want to entertain that. Hon Deputy Minister let us refrain from using such word, may you please continue. [Interjections.] Order! Please.

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: The National Housing Programme provides that payments for housing, goods and services be delivered as specified and required in terms of the provision of the development or construction agreement concluded with service providers. And that it may only be instituted upon certification that the service has been delivered and the value for money has been achieved which means we pay contractors on the basis of what they have done in terms of building, we don’t pay before the product is produced.

 

Due to the problems experienced with the contractors who delivers shoddy workmanship and fails to comply with their contractual obligations, Ministers and Members of Executive Council (MinMec) approved the strategy for action against the forwarding contractors of government subsidised housing project in 2012 to confirm action required to be taken against the building contractors involved in housing project. This strategy determines that a contractor may only be appointed to implement housing subsidised project if the contractor is registered with National Home Builders Registration Council (NHBRC).

 

It is the responsibility of the provinces and municipalities acting as developers for the projects to report all defaulting contractors to NHBRC when non compliance is detected. Contractors who default on contractual obligations or who do not deliver quality housing or do not adhere to NHBRC norms and standards will be subjected to the provision of section 11 of the housing consumer protection measures act of 1988 and be disciplined accordingly.

 

If the contractors have not met the terms and conditions of their contracts, these defaulting contractors can be deregistered in terms of the same act and they will be prevented to register any new company with NHBRC. The relevant provinces and municipalities that entered into contract with those contractors are obliged to report those contractors for non compliance and must make sure that they follow process in ensuring that they recover any cost or financial loss incurred due to non compliance of contractors once the contract agreement is terminated. And the names of the companies of these contractors must be provided to NHBRC for further investigations. Thank you.

 

Mr L P KHOARAI: Hon Deputy Minister, seeing that there are number of contractors who has been defaulting in terms of these contracts, can the hon Minister take us on board with the list of those contracts and if the Minister can tell us which are these contractors so that we can name and shame them if possible, thanks.

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: We do have a database for those defaulting contractors, we can furnish the member if they contact and also the department should furnish you about at what stages of the investigations we are at. Thank you.

 

Mr K P SITHOLE: Hon Deputy Minister, a great deal of wasteful expenditure originates especially from comrade contractors who receive building tenders from this department [Interjections.] which results in rectification of houses. How does the department intend preventing such comrade contractors from getting tender going forward which they are clearly unable to perform and deliver.

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: What we know is that we don’t have comrade contractors in Human Settlement. [Interjections.] What we do is to look in terms of the contractor being able to perform the job. You must remember that the selection is made public and there are reasons why a particular contractor is appointed because we look at the price and the ability of the contractor to give us quality houses. You should remember that we are no longer building RDP houses; we are building breaking new ground houses which means that the houses that we build are of good quality definitely. We cannot build those quality houses if we are just recruiting comrades to build houses. We take quality contractors who are giving us value for money because that is what the government wants. Thank you.

 

Ms M O MOKAUSE: Firstly, the Deputy Minister must not mislead us; we all know that Magashule in the Free State pays comrades even before projects starts. [Interjections.]But today you come here to respond and say that you pay after the completion of the project, it’s not true. [Interjections.] Coming to my question hon Chair, sit down because I am going to speak Setswana, I am speaking to the people of Alexandra.

 

Mo lekwalong la kgololosego le puso ya ga jaana ya ANC e ipelang ka lona, lone leo e leng lona le ba eteletsengpele, le re le bitsang Freedom Charter, la re baagi botlhe ba Aforikaborwa ba tla bona matlo a a siametseng bodulo. Mme re bone mo nakong e e fetileng baagi ba Alexandra ba abelwa mekhukhu, a ke one matlo ao? Re kopa gore le tlhalosetse Ntlo eno le Aforikaborwa gore a fa mmuso wa ANC o retelelwa ke go isa ditirelo kwa bathong? A go mo molaong gore a baagi ba abelwe mekhukhu?

 

MODULASETULO WA NTLO (Mme M G Boroto): Pele o fetola, ke kopa gore re gopotsane gore ke batla gore dipotso tsa lona di arabiwe, mme a re tlotleng nako ya rona ya motsotso, mme le ba ba arabang, a re tlotleng nako ya rona ya metsotso e mebedi. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follow.)

 

[The Freedom Charter that the ANC-led government prides itself on, states that all South Africans shall have decent houses, conducive for living. However, we have seen the residents of Alexandra being allocated shacks; are those shacks houses? We urge you to explain to this House and to South Africa at large whether the ANC-led government is failing to render services to the people or is it legal to distribute shacks to people?

 

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE HOUSE (Mrs G Boroto): Before you respond, I would like us to remember that I want your questions to be answered,  let us respect the one minute  allocated to us, and to those who will be responding to questions, respect the two minutes allocated as well.]

 

It is important, these questions are important so I allowed extra seconds, please lets work together.

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: I just want to start from where the member spoke about how we pay contractors because she is misleading the House. The contractors are paid as follows; firstly they do the foundation and we go and inspect the foundation and then they get paid. And then we go to the wall plate, we sent the inspector to check if the wall is correct and if it’s correct then they get paid. Then we go the roof and if it is finished, we pay. The contractors that are here, knows...

 

Ms M O MOKAUSE: Chair, on a point of order: I don’t think you heard what I said

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member what is your point of order?

 

Ms M O MOKAUSE: I don’t think the hon Deputy Minister heard what I said, I said Ace Magashule is paying the comrade contractors in the Free State, even before the completion of the project.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members I think the hon Deputy Minister is answering on how the department pays [Interjections.]. Hon Deputy Minister, continue.

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: And that is why we are saying if there is a problem within the supply chain management, if those things are not done, that is what we are investigating and following up but that’s supposed to be the routine on how we pay. And when we go to the issue of Alexandra ...

 

Mr N S MATIASE: House Chair, on a point of order: The issue of the operation hlasela in the Free State is being investigated now with the Public Protector and if the member is clueless about the progress and extent of the damage that the operation hlasela is causing in the Free State she must just honourable and not give any answer because it appears as though the question is too difficult for her.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Please sit, I think we are not discussing that here, she is answering to the original question and the supplementary question, and you still have your one minute and six seconds hon Deputy Minister.

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Chairperson, I want to tell the House that I have been in the Free State myself and I have witnessed quality houses there that I have handed over myself and the President so I don’t know what these people are talking about. When we come to the issue of Alexandra, in Alexandra we have houses that are built by us, I have witnessed that. We do not deliver shacks to the people; it is not part of what we do. I thank you.

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Chair, on a point of order: I was in Stjwetla last week Tuesday [Interjections.]Government is distributing shacks in Alexandra, it’s a matter of fact and we can show you pictures, government is distributing shacks in Alexandra, we are asking a question if its government policy because they have been distributing shacks in Alexandra in Stjwetla...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Now you are in a debate and we don’t want that.

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: But the Deputy Minister must not mislead us. [Interjections.][Applause.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Please sit, hon members if you are dissatisfied with the answers that the Deputy Minister is giving, you know the processes of this Parliament, nobody will bar you from doing what you are supposed to do if you think that what has been said here doesn’t satisfy the answer that you wanted.

 

Ms M O MOKAUSE: Hon Chair, on a point of order: May I address you?

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): With pleasure.

 

Ms M O MOKAUSE: It is very unfortunate that once howlers get to be selected in strategic positions like this, [Interjections.] they come to this House and not response to the issues raised in this House.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I am not going to allow you.

 

Dr H CHIWANE: Every mike is off now

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Chiwane we are not in a debate, what is your point of order?

 

Dr H CHEWANE: House Chair, on a point of order: I need to rise to on a point of order, you agreed that the hon member could address you but the next thing you switch off the mike, and it looks like its only when you preside

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Can you please sit down?

 

Dr H CHEWANE: No, I am not going to take that instruction; I will not accept that instruction,

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Okay.

 

Dr H CHEWANE: It’s only in your time when you preside that mikes just switched off like that, why do you abuse us like that. [Interjections.] Why do you agree to be addressed and switch off the mike? Why do you do that? Is it part of the rules? Was it agreed in this House that you can switch off the mike?

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Are you done? Can you please be done?

 

Dr H CHEWANE: But why do you switch off mikes? Why do you switch off mikes? Is it part of the rules? [Interjections.] Why do you abuse us like that? Can we get a new Chair there please? No, but she is abusing us this woman. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I am going to say this and I am going to say it for the last time, hon members when you rise on a point of order, let it be a point of order. It must not be another debate that is against what has been said or something else that I will not allow because I understand what a point of order, and I gave you the liberty to say if you are not satisfied with the answers given, obviously you know what to do and you are allowed to do that. But forcing me to allow you to make a point of debate in the pretext of a point of order, unfortunately I cannot allow that, it is a waste of our time. [Applause.] [Interjections.]

 

Mr S P MHLONGO: Madam House Chair, as a supplementary question to the Deputy Minister ...

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Njomane, may I explain something? We have a list here.

 

Mr S P MHLONGO: I understand that, but it’s a matter of great urgency. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No, no, no, no. it doesn’t work like that.

 

Mr S P MHLONGO: It’s a matter of great urgency, Madam House Chair.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): You can talk to the Minister after this process. She’s at liberty to talk to you.

 

Mr S P MHLONGO: Okay, fine.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you very much. Hon Shivambu?

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: House Chair, on a point of order: Earlier in the House the Chief Whip of the Majority Party stood up and said that a member must be referred to an ethics committee for misrepresenting the truth. He called it a lie, which he later withdrew. Now, we are pointing out here in Parliament the fact that there are shacks that are being built in Alexandra by government. [Interjections.] I’m taking you through.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Oh no, we’re not going back there.

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: I’m taking you through; I’m taking you through.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No, no, no! Yes, I ... I’m going to switch off the mic if you don’t sit down.

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: The Deputy Minister says that ... [Inaudible.] She says that ... [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I’m going to switch off the mic.

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: But, can I raise the point of order? I’m giving you the context first.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No, no, no, I don’t want the context or any preambles. I want your point of order. If it’s about ... [Interjections.]

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: [Inaudible.] Learn to listen first and then you make a ruling later.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No, you listen!

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: You must listen first. [Interjections.] There are shacks in Alexandra which are built by government. Obed Bapela who comes from Alexandra has just confirmed that now to the Deputy Minister. How do you chair? The disaster that it brings to this Parliament is not bearable. Are we subjected to this mediocrity?

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, we proceed. Next is hon Gqada. I’m sorry if I pronounce your surname incorrectly. Hon Dlamini, what is it?

 

Mr M M DLAMINI: Chair, I raised my hand on a point of order.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): What is your point of order?

 

Mr M M DLAMINI: Can you please treat us fairly and do your job properly ... [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, just stick to the procedures and rules of the House and you will get attention. Just stick to that.

Mr M M DLAMINI: ... because ... [Inaudible.] We have the capacity to lose patience like you. Don’t do that.

 

Ms T GQADA: House Chair, it’s a pity that the Minister is not here to answer this one. My question to the Deputy Minister is the following. Last year the Minister indicated in a parliamentary reply that since 2009 the Special Investigating Unit, SIU ...

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: On a point of order: When the session was interrupted with the point of order, the Deputy Minister was in the middle ... she had actually just started answering the question with regard to shacks in Alexandra ... [Interjections.] ... and she had not completed. We want to listen to the response as to why government is distributing shacks in Alexandra. Can we get a response to that?

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, we are now with Ms Gqada.

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Why do you switch off my microphone ... [Inaudible.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): The hon Deputy Minister has already answered and she finished. [Interjections.]

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: She has not answered the question!

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Unfortunately you want her to answer the way you want her to answer.

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: She did not answer the question ... [Inaudible.] [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Gqada? [Interjections.] I know.

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: [Inaudible.] ... Again, she had not answered the question.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): She had. If you had listened and were not disruptive you would have heard her. [Interjections.] Thank you very much.

 

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Just ask her.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I am done with the follow up question by hon Mokause. [Interjections.] I’m now with hon Gqada. We are sorry about that. Can you restart the clock for hon Gqada please?

 

Ms T GQADA: Deputy Minister, last year the Minister indicated in a parliamentary reply that since September 2009 the SIU had investigated 59 contracts or projects to the value of R20 billion following allegations of fraud and corruption with regard to the delivery of Reconstruction and Development Programme, RDP, houses. From the SIU reports delivered to your department, can you indicate how much of the R20 billion has been recovered to date and how many people, including government officials, have been successfully prosecuted. Thank you very much.

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Thank you very much, hon House Chair.

 

Mr M S MBATHA: House Chair, on a point of order.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Mbatha, what is your point of order?

 

Mr M S MBATHA: I would like you to cast your eyes to the corner over there.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Which corner?

 

Mr M S MBATHA: Hon Carter and hon Radebe are having it on.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): What are you talking about, hon Mbatha?

 

Mr M S MBATHA: They are about to fight while you are proceeding with the House. I’m asking you to notice incidents of people who are standing and those who are talking loudly, so that the House is in order.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you, hon Mbatha.

 

Mr M S MBATHA: I’m helping you so you must thank me.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): What am I doing? [Laughter.] Thank you, hon Mbatha. Hon Carter, are you standing on a point of order?

 

Ms D CARTER: Thank you House Chairperson. I have been trying to stand up for a while but unfortunately we do not get recognised. I have said it before and I’m saying it again. Hon Mbatha is correct. We can only take so much tempting from castle corner. So if they want us to go outside I’m prepared to go outside. Let them come. [Applause.] [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I’m going to ask the hon Chief Whip of the Majority Party to attend to the matter. [Interjections.] Hon Chief Whips, please attend to the matter and allow us to continue. Order, hon members! Hon Deputy Minister? Hon members, please.

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: I want to thank the member for that follow up question. However, as you can hear that follow up question is too involved. It needs details and I don’t have that information with me. We can furnish that information to you, hon Gqada. We don’t have it as yet. We will find out what’s going on.

 

Mr M WATERS: House Chairperson, may I address you?

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Waters?

 

Mr M WATERS: Thank you. The question is quite clear. It says what steps have been taken by her department to ensure that wasteful expenditure emanating from contractors not availing themselves to finish off the projects for which they have already been paid has been repaid. That is the original question. The question from the hon DA member was with regard to the R20 billion related to fraud. How much has been recovered? It’s a simple question. It relates to the original question.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Waters, please sit. I hope we don’t have advocates for other members in this room. However, what I can say is that ... [Interjections.] No, no, she has answered. She said she doesn’t have the records now. So what do you expect her to do? She can’t come here and thumbsuck answers. [Interjections.]

 

Mr M WATERS: House Chairperson, I agree that the hon Deputy Minister must not thumbsuck. So, what it indicates is the fact that when a Minister is not in the House to answer their questions the Deputy Ministers cannot do their jobs. They are lacking and that is why the Ministers need to be in the House ... [Inaudible.] ... to answer oral questions.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you very mu8ch. We proceed. I think what you are saying is something you can put in a substantive motion. Hon Ndlozi?

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Presiding Officer, it’s not about the different political parties and the differences we hold ideologically. Ministers have an obligation to come to the House to be accountable. We ask questions. We warned at the beginning of the session about the absence of Ministers. We conceded when we were told to concede. We ask questions and the Deputy Minister has the audacity to stand and say she doesn’t have an answer. When we request you to recognise that and hit her hard your response is to protect her. There are shacks being distributed by government in Alexandra but she doesn’t know.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you very much. Now you are using the opportunity to say something that ... [Interjections.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: No, I’m not. Can you switch on my mic?

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No, no, no, I’m not going to allow that. Please sit.

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: But can I finish?

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Please sit. No, no, you are talking now about shacks and everything.

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: I want to finish; One sentence.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No, no, no, no! We continue to Question 577 as asked by hon Davis to the Minister of Basic Education. From our earlier discussion we know that the hon Deputy Minister will take the question.

 

Position regarding study to establish how SADTU helps or hinders the achievement of quality education

 

577.        Mr G R Davis (DA) asked the Minister of Basic Education:

 

Whether her department undertook any study to establish how in general the SA Democratic Teachers Union help or hinder the Government in its objective of achieving a quality education for all children, especially those children living in poor communities; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what are the relevant details?                   NO4653E

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon Chair, the department has not undertaken any study to establish how, in general, activities of teacher unions - particularly the South African Democratic Teachers Union, SADTU, - help or hinder government in its objective of achieving quality education. However, the department has observed and appreciates how the teacher unions, including SADTU, operate within a set of rules that are agreed upon through collective agreements concluded in the Education Labour Relations Council, ELRC, and the public service co-ordination bargaining council as well as rules imposed by the Labour Relations Act and the Basic Conditions of Employment Act and the Employment Equity Act.

 

These Acts and collective agreements together with the code of ethics that bind all professional bodies and persons regulate the relationship between the employer and employees and their organisations. Collective agreement 2 of 2007 provides for the appointment of fulltime shop stewards in education to facilitate negotiations, dispute resolutions and prevention while the rest of the teachers ensure the teaching and learning occur in the classroom.

 

Teacher unions, including the South African Democratic Teacher Union, are strategic partners in ensuring improved educational outcomes. To give effect to this, the national education collaboration trust was created as a partnership initiative by civil society and it has strengthened co-operation amongst stake holders, business, labour and other civil organisations. [Applause.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Oder hon members. Continue hon Deputy Minister.

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: The Department of Basic Education, all provincial education departments and five teacher unions, including SADTU, have signed a memorandum of agreement with an objective to contribute to the achievement of targets as set out for the teacher professional development in the action plans and the integrated plan in framework for teacher development. Through this collaboration, 85 000 teachers have been trained in various teacher development programmes. SADTU in particular has conducted Curriculum Assessment Policy Statement, CAPS, orientation to 19 589 teachers in Mpumalanga and KwaZulu-Natal and a further 14 923 on foundation phase resource development programmes in the following districts, Lebode, Mopani and Botshabelo.

 

The South African Democratic Teachers Union also concluded school management teams training for about 2000 senior management teachers in the same districts including areas in KwaZulu-Natal. In addition, the teacher unions, SADTU in particular, has been instrumental in contributing towards the success of the national steadfast which involves more than 80 000 learners and to which they contribute the time and energy free of charge. So we should not generalise ... [Time expired.]

 

Mr G R DAVIS: Deputy Chairperson, the Deputy Minister is clearly out of touch with his department if he thinks that SADTU is a strategic partner that will help the department achieve its objectives. A 2007 cross national study found that just 37% of South African grade 6 maths teachers could answer a grade 6 maths question correctly, but we still do not have teacher competency test because SADTU doesn’t want them.

 

We have no way of standardising and ensuring the quality of matric markers, but we don’t have marker competency tests because SADTU doesn’t want them. We have the highest rate of teacher absenteeism on the continent but we don’t have teacher performance contract because SADTU doesn’t want them. Deputy Minister, there is a hostage drama playing itself out in our school system with SADTU holding our children to ransom. What concrete steps are you taking to put the rights of children ahead of the demands of SADTU? Thank you.

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: This is a very important question. When you do philosophy one and you do logic, the one fallacy that you avoid and you seek to avoid is one of hasty over generalisation. While there are members within an organisation that may cause disruption and that may tarnish the image of the profession. As a ministry and as a department of basic education, we do not treat our unions and the representatives selectively. In other words, we believe that all educators have a particular professional responsibility to learners and when there is a violation or a transgression they must be dealt with.

 

What the department has done is ensure that it fosters a harmonious relationship with teacher unions because they recognise that teachers form an important pillar for the provision of quality education. To this extent we share with the teacher unions our action plans, our policies, our objectives and our goals. And it is for that reason that all the teacher unions have subscribed to targets which we basically discussed with them in relation to literacy and numeracy and in relation to targets for achievement.

With regard to assessment, it is not a problem of SADTU but a problem with all teacher unions who do not want to subject themselves to performance assessments. The department has created non-intrusive instruments and they are 94 of them available by which teachers could privately test their ability and capacity in each subject across the grades. This indeed has been initiated and implemented, utilised not only by SADTU but by other teacher unions in relation to areas such as English and we are busy with Mathematics, Science and Accountancy.

 

We do believe that assessment is critical and necessary and in the chamber itself, the Education Labour Relations Council, we are moving from the Integrated Quality Management System, IQMS, to a Quality management System, QMS, which embodies an element of quality management. I thank you hon Chairperson.

 

Prof N M KHUBISA: Deputy Minister, another scourge that is dealing a devastating blow to quality education is the one of jobs for pals. Just recently there was a story that was much publicised, a story of a teacher in Durban who had to pay a SADTU official some money in order for that teacher to be employed. At some point, the car of a teacher broke down, and then the teacher found himself out of the system. I understand that there is a Volmink commission, how far has this commission progressed and what is the department doing in dealing with issues of corruption because they are a scourge to quality education in our country? Thank you.

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon Chairperson, I thank the hon member for raising a very important issue. When it came to the attention of the department that indeed these activities are taking place the Minister appointed a very important, credible, competent and acceptable commission led by Professor Volmink. It has in its composition two independent forensic auditors from Deloitte and Touche, it has a member from the Department of Justice so that we can ensure the prosecution occurs immediately, it has a member from the Public Service Commission and it is entitled to draw to its expertise and it operates independently. This was gazetted in September last year.

 

The commission has started its work; it is engaged with all invited complaints and has received a great deal of complaints. Forensic investigations have been carried out, more information has been in leads having been provided and these are being followed up and a term of 120 days was allocated, the Chairperson sought an extension and sought further support and the Department of Justice and Correctional Services has provided the commission with three further investigators.

 

Amongst its task, is to identify the role of organisations, unions or its branches in the provision and procurement of jobs for pals through resources, directly or indirectly. It is to examine the role of governing bodies or governing body associations in any act of corruption whether it occurs directly or indirectly. It has to engage with all stake holders including governing body associations in relation to this particular aspect.

 

The commission has been extremely busy with this particular task, has interviewed all stake holders including complainants and has received a great deal of leads. The information that we have is that whilst the forensic report is now almost in its completion stages, a draft report is being prepared and should be tabled with the Minister before the end of the year. We do take the issue of corruption very very seriously and irrespective of ... [Time expired.]

 

Prof C T MSIMANG: Hon Deputy Minister, I think it is common knowledge that members of SADTU are putting the interests of the union before those of the learners. We may even cite the question of SADTU strikes and SADTU go slows. These will happen on the eve of the examinations. My question is, have you engaged SADTU or are you prepared to engage SADTU on these issues? Thank you.

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION:  I think the important or critical element is to ensure that there is no acrimonious or hostile relationship between the department, the ministry and the teacher unions. We have committed ourselves and indeed do meet with the unions and we have said that for this year we will meet quarterly. The newly appointed Director-General has agreed and resolve with the general secretaries or the CEOs of the various unions that he would meet monthly in order to ensure that we create peace and stability within the environment.

 

Our National Senior Certificate examinations have commenced and not withstanding the disputes with regard to the Annual National Assessment, all unions including SADTU have not done anything directly or indirectly to destabilise the examinations. We do believe that that is because of the shared vision and commitment by all unions together with the department to ensure that we place at a centre of what we do, the best interest of a child and the provision of a quality education. I thank you.

 

Ms H O HLOPHE: Deputy Minister, on the issue of job for cash, I remember very well I specifically asked you, it was on 19 August 2015. You said the report will be out in six weeks, today is November and the six weeks has come and pass. I even said to you, are you hiding the report because SADTU is affiliated to COSATU which is in alliance with the ANC? Because you are deployed, as a deployee you don’t want to deal with this issue which is very critical to our people. Where is the report? We want the report and nothing else. No mangamanga. [No lies]

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: The hon member is indeed correct, she was quite categorical in saying that she enquired about the report and indeed a commitment was given and that was a commitment that was given to the Minister that by September a report will be tabled. The explanation and the request for an extension came from the Chair on the basis that they have received new leads with regard to this particular matter. They have to investigate them because the task will be incomplete or incoherent and therefore they would be able to submit the report before the end of this year. And we do believe and we accept the commitment on the part of the Chair, what we can assure you given the importance and urgency of the matter, that we will again raise the matter with the Chair to express our anxiety in relation to receiving the report so that we could table it and bring to the attention of the general public as soon as possible. I thank you hon Chairperson.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, the time allocated for questions has expired. Outstanding replies received will be printed in Hansard. Yes hon member, why are you rising?

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: House Chairperson, I want to request that in terms of the rules pertaining to questions to Ministers. The provision of the rules envisioned a situation where indeed we get answers, either from a Cabinet member or from a Deputy Minister. And therefore the questions that were not answered today must be treated as questions that fall off and must come back to House because we must exercise accountability – can I speak House Chair?[Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member yes you have made your point. You must round up now. Hon members!

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: There are two questions that we asked and the Deputy Ministers literally said, we don’t know. Government is distributing shacks in Alexander, can that question come back? Why is government distributing shacks to the people in Alexander ... [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member.

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: ...and the question that was raised in relation to the R20 billion expenditure ... [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Okay, hon member I get the gist of your input. That is a matter that you must take to the rules committee. It is not within the rules to do what you are requesting at the moment. I suggest that it must be taken up in the rules committee. As I have indicated when question time expired, all outstanding replies will be sent to members in writing. And I think since the process of the review of the rules of the National Assembly is nearing its completion, that is the matter that should be dealt with there. We now come to motions without notice. Are there any motions without notice? [Interjections.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: House Chair on a point of order. Indulge me one more time; I am going to read you the rule. The rule specifically says, if a Minister is absent on a day when questions relating to the relevant cluster are to be answered and those questions are not answered – blah blah blah – in the end it says, if requested to do so by the member in whose name a question to the Minister stands and after the consultation with [Inaudible.] then it must be postponed. Those questions were not answered.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, with due respect ... [Interjections.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: This is a conditional proposition –if ... [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, will you now take your seat? I have now given you a fair chance to put your point. You must also read rule 109 that makes it very clear. Read the other subsections as well that makes it very clear that the rules do allow for a Deputy Minister or even another Minister to reply and that was the understanding this morning in the Chiefwhip’s forum where we were. The matter was discussed there and that is also how we dealt with it in terms of other questions. The questions have now been responded to, if there was an arrangement between the member asking the question and the relevant Minister in consultation with the Whips of parties that the question should stand over, then that could have been done. Other two questions have now been answered.

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: The last part House Chair, by the way, these are not replies; it is answers. The Ministers, the Deputy Minister is on record to say she does not have answers. It’s not just a reply, she did not reply. Why are you not taking exception to the fact that ... [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member ... [Interjections.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: ...we allowed the Deputy Minister an opportunity ... [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member ... [Interjections.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: ... having not heard the Minister.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): ... you have made your point.

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: ...So our questions must be answered

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, hon member. We will now proceed with notice of motion. The issue of the questions have now been dispensed off. Does any member wish to give notice of a motion?

 

See also QUESTIONS AND REPLIES.

 

NOTICES OF MOTIONS

 

Ms V M MAFOLO: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House: debates measures at curtailing the operation of a foreign organised crime syndicates in South Africa and in the region.

 

Mr D J MAYNIER: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House: debates the provision for the purchase of: “vehicles for the Minister and Deputy Minister of Health at the cost of R1.25 million.” The reasons the Minister seems to be oblivious of the fact that his own adjusted budget provides for the purchase and to determine in the light of this – whether the Minister readies adjusted budget before it was tabled in this Parliament.

 

Mr N L S KWANKWA: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:

 

That the House: debates strategies on how to prevent the possible deaths of initiates over the summer season at initiation schools around the country, together with the role that all the relevant stakeholders, especially the traditional leaders can play to ensure that no life is lost during the summer initiation season.

 

Mr T E MULAUDZI: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

 

That the House: debates the use Money Bill legislation available to Parliament to make changes to the proposed Budget allocation by the Minister of Finance in light of Fees Must Fall campaign.

 

Ms J EDWARDS: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House –

 

1. notes that –

 

1. the earth’s warmest temperatures ever recorded in October occurred on Tuesday, 27 October in South Africa when Vredendal hits an astonishing 48.4 degrees Celsius and global warming possesses a real threat to our environment and can no longer be swept under the rug; and

 

1. the horrific consequences and dangers of global warming.

 

Mr M HLENGWA: House Chair, South Africa will be heading to the polls in 2016 for local government elections; I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

 

That the House: debates the democratic imperative to ensure that the 2016 local government elections are free and fair and free from fear.

 

Prof N M KHUBISA: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the NFP:

 

That the House: debates the problems of overcrowding in prisons in our country.

 

Nks N P SONTI: Sihlalo weNdlu, ndenza isaziso sokuba, xa le Ndlu ihlala kwakhona, ndiza kwenza isiphakamiso sokuba le Ndlu ixoxe ngendlela abasebenzi mgodini abangakhuselekanga nabawelwa yimigodi ngayo, itafile ukutsho, imihla nezolo. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

 

[Ms N P SONTI: House chairperson, I hereby move without notice, in the next sitting of the House -

 

That this House debates situation of the mine workers that are working in the dangerous and unsafe conditions, the collapsing of mines each day.]

 

Ms T E BAKER: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House: debates the effects of the climate change and the current drought in KwaZulu-Natal and the impact on local communities, the economy of the province and the impending effects on food security and unemployment.

 

Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: House Chair, in light of South Africa’s own looming Arab Spring, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

 

That the House: debates defending South Africa’s Chapter 9 Institutions for the sake of accountability and our constitutional democracy.

 

Mr T RAWULA: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

 

That the House: debates public debt that is just under 50% of the Gross Domestic Product, GDP, and its impact on the sovereignty of the country as far as fiscal and monetary decisions are concerned. 

 

Ms L M DUNJWA: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House: debates the government, private sector and labour partnership geared at finding ways to stimulate inclusive growth to deal with the rising unemployment.

 

Dr M J CARDO: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House: debates the wisdom of the industrial development corporation’s move to construct a $5 billion integrated steel plants in Mpumalanga in partnership with the state-owned steel maker, Hab Hai, given the current 600 million ton global oversupply of steel.

 

Ms N MNISI: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House: debates the rise of unknown death due to the escalation of proliferation of unlicensed guns in our communities.

 

Ms S J NKOMO: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

 

That the House: debates the decimal failure of the Department of Small Business Development in fulfilling its mandate to support small business and entrepreneurs amid the crippling national unemployment crisis and the rising frustration among our youth.

 

Ms N P SONTI: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

 

That the House: debates appointment of kitchen staff in particular at Marks building in Parliament through outsourcing.

 

Ms A TUCK: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House: debates the role of India partnership in the development of an economic prosperity in an integrated and united Africa.

 

Mr Y CASSIM: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House: debates the DA’s comprehensive and practical plan to adjust the budget in order to fund free quality Higher Education for poor students.

 

Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

 

That the House: debates the perpetual absence of Cabinet Ministers from sittings of this House and the negative impact this has on political accountability in our democracy.

 

Mr G R DAVIES: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House: debates the Minister of Basic Education’s failure to be present for two consecutive questions’ sessions in Parliament.

 

Ms H O HLOPHE: Hon House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

 

That the House debates the introduction of free quality education for all in light of the reformist call of free education for the few, as raised by the Minister of Higher Education.

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

 

That the House debates the suitability of the hon Boroto to preside over parliamentary sessions, both in its plenaries and its committees. [Laughter.]

 

Mr N S MATIASE: Hon House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

 

That the House discuss the disappointing and deplorable conditions that domestic workers in parliamentary villages, especially at Acacia Park, find themselves subjected to by members of the ANC.

 

Mr T KGAOLA: Hon House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

 

That the House debates the introduction of national minimum wage as a means to fight poverty and massive inequalities.

DEPARTMENT OF HOME AFFAIRS CONGRATULATED FOR WINNING ICT PUBLIC SERVICE AWARD

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

Mr J L MAHLANGU: Hon House Chairperson, I move without notice:

 

That the House —

 

1. congratulates the Department of Home Affairs for winning the Information and Communications Technology, ICT, Service Delivery and Transformation Award in the national government category at the ICT Public Service Awards held in Durban on Sunday 25 October 2015;

 

1. notes that the ICT Service Deliver and Transformation Award seeks to recognise and reward the most outstanding service delivery, or a product, or a service and or transformation at a national government level;

 

1. acknowlwdges that the Department of Home Affairs was nominated for the smart ID card project which forms part of the department’s broader modernisation programme;

 

1. believes that the recognition is testament to the department’s commitment to delivering quality service; and

 

1. wishes the Department of Home Affairs more success in their endeavours.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Are there any objections to the motion? Yes. In light of objection, the motion may not proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of a motion.

 

IVORY COAST COMMENDED FOR HOLDING PEACEFUL ELECTIONS ON 25 OCTOBER 2015

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

Mr S MOKGALAPA: Hon House Chairperson, I move without notice:

 

That the House —

 

1. notes that Ivory Coast held elections on 25 October 2015;

 

1. further notes that this was the second elections that took place after the violence that marked the elections in 2010;

 

1. commends the people of Ivory Coast for holding peaceful elections;

 

1. congratulates President Alassane Ouatarra for his re-election as president with almost 84% of the votes ensuring a landslide victory for his party Rally of the Republicans, RDR; and

 

1. wishes the people of Ivory Coast success as their economy has grown by up to 8% per year over the past five years and is projected to grow up to 9% next year.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON(Mr C T Frolick):: Are there any objections to the motion? Yes. In light of objection, the motion may not proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of a motion.

 

WORST DROUGHT EXPECTED THIS YEAR

 

(Draft Resolution)

Dr H CHEWANE: Hon House Chairperson, I move without notice:

 

That the House —

 

1. notes that the drought forecast for this year said to be amongst the worst this country has seen, have highlighted the real struggles for water that the majority of poor people living in townships and villages have been facing for years;

 

1. further notes that Minister Mokonyane has been going around over the past few weeks trying to make South Africans accept that as a result poor leadership and lack of planning by her department this country will now face severe water shortages;

 

1. acknowledges that the impending water crisis in this country is not only as a result of drought but mainly as a result of years of neglect of water infrastructure by the ANC-led government.

 

1. notes that this means people of Giyani, Bushbuckridge, Mothutlung and many more other areas promised water will not get water under the ANC-led government.
2. further notes that just like it was the case with electricity, water infrastructure before 1994 was never made to benefit black people but only for the tiny white population.

 

1. acknowledges that the failure of the ANC to invest in the water infrastructure therefore is the course of this water crisis;

 

1. further acknowledges that the water crisis is further worsened by the fact that South African state does not own the dams that we have. [Interjections.]

 

1. notes that, of the 5 122 registered dams in this country, only 320 are owned by the state and the rest in private hands.

 

1. further notes that this then leads to the comodification of water, depriving many poor people the right to access good quality water; and

 

1. calls on the Department of Water Affairs and Sanitation to come clean and let the country know the true extent of water problems facing South Africans and what it is doing to avert these crisis.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Are there any objections to the motion? Yes. In light of objection, the motion may not proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of a motion.

 

MURDER OF WARRANT OFFICER THOMAS MABADA ON 02 NOVEMBER 2015

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Hon House Chairperson, I move without notice:

 

That the House —

 

1. notes that on Monday 02 November 2015, Warrant Officer Thomas Mabada who was stationed at Siloam police station close to Thohoyandou in the Limpopo province was killed in the line of duty;

 

1. also notes that at the time of his death, Warrant Officer Mabada and his partner were in hot pursuit of suspected armed robbers on the road between Siloam in Thohoyandou when he was finally shot;

 

1. finally notes that Warrant Officer Mabada, an experienced police officer, was aged 52 at the time of his death;

 

1. expresses condolences to the bereaved family and friends of the late Warrant Officer Thomas Mabada who died in the line of duty and urge the SA Police to leave no stone unturned in finding and apprehending the criminals who killed Warrant Officer Mabada and bring them to face justice; and

 

1. calls upon the community of Siloam to assist the SA Police in the investigation of the murder of Warrant Officer Mabada.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Are there any objections to the motion? Yes. In light of objection, the motion may not proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of a motion.

 

PASSING ON OF MMATLOU ELIZABETH RAMATHLODI ON 03 NOVEMBER 2015

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

Ms J M MALULEKE: Hon House Chairperson, I move without notice:

 

That the House —

 

1. notes with sadness the passing on of Mmatlou Elizabeth Ramatlhodi, on Tuesday, 03 November 2015, at the age of 95;

 

1. recalls that Mmatlou Elizabeth Ramatlhodi is the mother of the recently appointed Minister of Public Service and Administration, Ngoako Ramatlhodi;

 

1. believes that Mmatlou Ramatlhodi has been sick for quite some time and was staying with the Minister at his Pretoria home;

 

1. declares that our hearts are with the Minister’s family during these trying times; and

 

1. conveys its condolences to the Ramatlhodi family, friends and relatives.

 

Agreed to.

 

CARGO PLANE IN SOUTH SUDAN CRASHES, KILLING 41 PEOPLE

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

Ms S V KALYAN: House Chair, I hereby move without notice on behalf of the DA:

 

That this House -

 

1. notes that news broke earlier today that a cargo plane carrying passengers crashed just after taking off from Juba in South Sudan;

 

1. also notes that reports indicate that at least 41 people died in the accident, most of whom were civilians on the ground when the plane fell;

 

1. acknowledges that it seems like only one crew member and a child survived the accident; and

 

1. conveys our sincere condolences to the crew, family and friends of the deceased and sends our sincere condolences to the government of South Sudan.

 

Agreed to.

 

EFF STUDENTS COMMAND SECURES VICTORY AT VAAL UNIVERSITY OF TECHNOLOGY

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: House Chairperson, I rise on behalf of the EFF to move without notice:

 

That the House -

 

1. notes that the EFF Students Command secured a remarkable and decisive victory at the Vaal University of Technology, or VUT;

 

1. also notes that of the 16 contested positions, the EFF Students Command won all the seats with an average difference of 1 000 votes;
2. further notes that this 100% victory is happening for the second time despite attempts by ANC children, the SA Students Congress, or Sasco, Minister of Higher Education and Training Blade Nzimande, the ANC parliamentary caucus and the VUT management’s spreading of rumours that the Student Representative Council’s president Troy Mathebula of the EFF was involved in corruption;

 

1. also notes that this 100% victory happened against millions of rand that were spent by Sasco and the ANC at all levels to bribe students to vote for them;

 

1. notes that the ANC bought KFC, a Coca-Cola truck and meat and even distributed money in an attempt to buy students’ loyalty;

 

1. also notes that the entire national leadership and officials of the ANC’s youth desk, its former leaders and ANC regional and provincial leaders went to VUT to campaign against the EFF Students Command;

 

1. further notes, despite these attempts, that students at VUT overwhelmingly rejected the ANC and showed confidence in the EFF Students Command;
2. notes in addition that the determination and discipline of VUT students should be reflected in all local government elections where voters must reject food parcels and T-shirts of the ANC and the DA;

 

1. also notes that Parliament should congratulate Troy Mathebula on being re-elected president of the SRC and that the EFF remains the hope of ordinary students; and

 

1. stands and gives the EFF a round of applause.

 

[Applause.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): I now put the motion. Are there any objections? Yes, there is an objection. It is not agreed to. The motion without notice will now become a notice of a motion.

 

WINNERS OF YOUTH CITIZEN AND CITIZEN OF THE YEAR AWARDS

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

Mr N L S KWANKWA: House Chair, noko ndikhe ndaqhumisa nempepho kula kona andisayi kuphinda ndibhideke ngoku. [Kwahlekwa.] [I have use traditional herb in that corner I hope I will not be differ in regard to opinions this time. [Laughter.]

 

I hereby move without notice, on behalf of the UDM, the following motion:

 

That the House -

 

1. notes that Nadia Mila and Zodwa Dube from Port Elizabeth won the 2015 Harold GM Youth Citizen of the Year award and the 2015 Harold GM Citizen of the Year award respectively at a glitzy awards ceremony held in Port Elizabeth last week Friday;

 

1. further notes that Nadia was recognised for the Little Stuart Play School she opened in the back yard of her township home in Walmer, Port Elizabeth, while Zodwa was recognised for her Marrow Masakhane programme which endeavours to increase the number of black stem-cell donors;

 

1. recognises that these awards, which were given for the first time this year, aim to encourage and recognise people who are making a positive contribution to their communities;

 

1. congratulates Nadia and Zodwa on their outstanding achievements and their contributions to building a better South Africa for all;

 

1. wishes them all the best in all their future endeavours.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): I now put the motion. Are there any objections?

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: For calling the party of Gen Bantu Holomisa the DA, we object.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): There is an objection. It’s not agreed to. The motion without notice will now become a notice of a motion.

 

CONDOLENCES ON DEATH OF STRUGGLE VETERAN SARAH CARNESON

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

Mr J L MAHLANGU: Chair, the ANC moves without notice:

That the House -

 

1. notes with sadness the death of ANC-SA Communist Party and trade-unionist veteran Sarah Carneson on 29 October 2015 at the age of 99;

 

1. recalls that her activism started in 1938 when she began working for the National Union of Distributive Workers and also became the secretary of the Tobacco Workers’ Union;

 

1. further recalls that in 1954 she was banned by the apartheid government and could no longer hold office in any union, forcing her to go underground in 1960;

 

1. acknowledges that in 1967, she was imprisoned for breaching her banning order and, after her release from prison in 1968, she went into exile;

 

1. further acknowledges that Sarah and her husband Fred Carneson worked for the movement in exile and brought up three children – Lynn, John and Ruth – and returned to the country when the ANC and the SA Communist Party were unbanned; and
2. conveys its condolences to her family, friends and comrades - Hamba kahle, Comrade Sarah Carneston, Hamba kahle.

 

Agreed to.

 

UNRESOLVED WATER ISSUE IN KURUMAN

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

Ms M O MOKAUSE: House Chair, I rise on behalf of the EFF to move without notice:

 

That the House -

 

1. notes the shortage of water in the Ga-Segonyana municipal area in Kuruman, particularly in the villages of Bankara and Maropeng;

 

1. further notes that the mayor of the Ga-Segonyana Local Municipality, Mr Gibson Anthony, at some stage addressed the people of Maropeng, promising them that the municipality would resolve the water issue and further promising them that the municipality would be providing them with water tanks which would be filled every day without any cost to the community;

 

1. acknowledges that until today, the taps throughout those villages remain dry, while the municipality continues to spend millions on corrupt procurement practices which benefit only a tiny minority of businesspeople connected to the ANC in that municipality;

 

1. further acknowledges that those who are responsible for servicing water infrastructure in the municipality cannot do so because of the shortage of fleet in the municipality;

 

1. further adds that the fleet of the municipality has not been serviced for a number of years and, as a result, is not in good working condition;

 

1. also notes that even though the municipality has this problem, they have not stopped distributing food parcels and blankets to ANC-linked people in those villages;

 

1. calls on the Minister of Co-Operative Governance and Traditional Affairs and the MEC in the Northern Cape to investigate this situation in Ga-Segonyana and ensure that people in that area have water;

 

1. further calls on the MEC in the Northern Cape of co-operative governance and traditional affairs to investigate the procurement practices of the municipality to root out corruption and ensure that the needs of the people are well taken care of; and

 

1. calls additionally on the people of Bankara, Maropeng and the surrounding villages, come the 2016 local government elections, to reject the ANC government by going to the polls and voting for the EFF.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): I now put the motion. Are there any objections? Yes, there is an objection. The motion is not agreed to. The motion without notice will now become a notice of a motion.

 

BUSINESSES IN FRANCIES MALL IN TONGAAAT WITHOUT WATER SERVICES FOR EIGHT DAYS

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

Prof N M KHUBISA: House Chairperson, I move without notice:

 

That the House -

 

1. notes that over 200 businesses in Francies Mall in Tongaat were without water services for eight days, so now that the business owners attempted to report the problem to the ward councilor, but the councilor was nowhere to be found;

 

1. further notes that then in desperation, the business owners approach the NFP to assist, where after we followed up the problem with numerous phone calls and e-mails;

 

1. further notes that the initial responds of acting municipality to the inquiries of the NFP was the reason that the low levels of the dams supplying the municipal with water was to blame for the lack of water, but it later transpired that the problem was indeed a faltyvide;

 

1. notes that the water crisis of businesses in Tongaat has now been resolved after continuous intervention of the NFP;

 

1. calls upon this hon House to express its displeasure at the incompetence of a municipality and the Department of Water and Sanitation to deal with the water crisis expressed by the businesses in Tongaat and their failure to assess the merits of the complaints raised by the business people within the levels of agency it deserves.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If there are no objections, I put the motion. [Interjections.] In light of the objection, the motion without notice may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice now becomes a notice of motion on the Order Paper.

 

CULTURE OF ABUSING WORKERS BY PRIVATE, WHITE OWNED COMPANIES IN SOUTH AFRICA

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

Mr T KGAOLA: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:

 

That the House -

 

1. notes the continuation of a morally reprehensible culture of abusing workers by private, white owned companies in South Africa, particularly in the Western Cape, where company owners act with impunity in abusing the rights of workers;

 

1. further notes that the company called Pallet Supply Company, based in Blackheath in the Northern suburbs of Cape Town, is notorious for treating workers as if they were worse than animals, employing them as casual workers for more than 10 Years on some instances, and not providing them with protective wear even though they work in conditions that are compromising their health;

 

1. acknowledges that one such worker, Mr Mlindeli Jack, worked for this company for more than 28 years under conditions that were hazardous to his own health because of the dust that comes out of the pallets; he was recently diagnosed with a condition that makes it impossible for him to work, as a result of the dust that has accumulated in his system for all these years;

 

1. further acknowledges that Pallet Supply Company only offered him R15000 00, which they called a ‘gesture of goodwill’ because they did not have to pay him anything as they have been paying him a salary for the past 28 years, and therefore did not owe him a cent; this means that Mr Jack was employed by this company as a casual worker for 28 years without any benefits;

 

1. calls on Parliament to tighten up its oversight mechanism to ensure that predominantly black workers are not treated like slaves in their own country, 21 years after the attainment of freedom;

 

1. further calls on the Department of Labour to censure the Pallet Supply Company and ensure that it adheres to labour regulations and stops abusing its workers.[Applause.]

 

Agreed to.

 

ABUSE OF BBBEE AND ENRICHMENT OF FEW INDIVIDUALS

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

Mr N S MATIASE: House Chair, I move without notice:

 

That the House -

 

1. notes that by 1996 government has discarded the RDP a document which carried the shared aspirations and hopes of our people and proposed practical steps to transform South Africa from a colonial and apartheid to a nonracial, nonsexist and democratic society;

 

1. further notes that in place of the RDP, government implemented Growth, Empowerment and Redistribution, Gear, a macro economic policy framework which justified and entrenched the capitalist logic of market fundamentalism;

 

1. further notes that despite these policy frameworks, no strategy for radical economic transformation exist and that government opted the so-called black economic empowerment which empowered those with links with the ruling party such as Mr Cyril Ramaphosa;

 

1. resulted in Mr Ramaphosa’s appointment to head a Black Economic Empowerment Commission and that it is not surprising that he is now one of the key beneficiaries of the BEE and he sits in this Parliament and continues to make business with the state;

 

1. notes that the second phase of the Black Economic Empowerment, BEE, was introduced with the formulation of industry empowerment charters, the BBBEE Act and a series of implementation codes;

 

1. recognises that despite the black economic empowerment improved slightly, the Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment has failed to temper with the structural distortions of ownership and wealthy distribution in the country and that despites the BBBEE Act which affirms affirms a more decisive state’s control in the transformation of the economy, this has not been done, infect this has been kept on margins of the real economy;

 

1. notes that Broad-Based BEE is not adequate to address these distortions as it seems to perpetuate the concentration of wealth in the hands of few and small elite;

 

1. further calls for an introduction of a discourse to end capital exploitation;

 

1. invest in productive capacities of the people, especially the poor in the areas such as education, health and sanitation and stop the ‘pay as you earn’ principle and provide free quality education for all now;
2. calls for an accession to the economic freedom much demands that instead of narrow BEE, all companies must be compelled by law to distribute a minimum of 50% of the companies workers to ensure worker control.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If there are no objections, I put the motion. [Interjections.] In light of the objection, the motion without notice may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice now becomes a notice of motion on the Order Paper.

 

MDANTSANE –BORN MUSICIAN SIYA MAKUZENI WAS ANNOUNCED STANDARD BANK YOUNG ARTIST FOR JAZZ ON WEDNESDAY

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

Ms C N MAJEKE: Hon Chair, I move without notice:

 

That the House -

 

1. notes that Mdantsane born musician Siya Makuzeni was announced as 2016 Standard Bank Young Artist for Jazz on Wednesday night, 28 October 2015;

 

1. further notes that the former Sterling pupil, now a professional tombone player, vocalist, lyrics and songwriter, said she was still trying to wrap her head around her achievement;

 

1. recognises that the 33-year-old said hear journey into music began when she joined the Stirling Primary school choir;

 

1. further recognises that the winners receive cash incentive and are given support to develop and premiere new works that will be featured on the main programme of next year’s National Arts Festival in Grahamstown;

 

1. congratulates Makuzeni on her best achievement and wishing her well in her music career.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If there are no objections, I put the motion. [Interjections.] In light of the objection, the motion without notice may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice now becomes a notice of motion on the Order Paper.

 

COMMUINITY OF LEDIG IN BOJANALA

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

Ms V KHETHABAHLE: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:

 

That the House -

 

1. Notes that the community of Ledig in Bojanala is forced to wait over 10 years while the premier of North West obstruct justice and protect corrupt ANC leaders; the premier who is responsible for the assassination of Wandile Bozwana;

 

1. notes that the Ledig community received donations from Sun City and WeSizwe mine respectively to repair and maintain the aging water infrastructure and renovation of community schools;

 

1. further notes that a top ANC leader, Mr Phologane and his friends embezzled and defrauded the community by illegally transferring money from the community’s bank account without permission from anyone;

 

1. understand that after investigation conducted by a community appointed administrator, a criminal case was opened against Mr Phologane and friends, but to this day no arrest have been made;

 

1. recognises that because the premier treat the police provincial commissioner as his own personal security, issuing instructions to say who can be arrested and who cannot be arrested, as a results his political connected friends are now law onto themselves;

 

1. calls on the police to finalise the Ledig community case of fraud against the ANC leader, Mr Phologane as a matter of urgency;

 

1. further calls on and encourage all man in blue to do their job, investigate reported cases and arrest people who are breaking the law without being influenced by politicians or criminals.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If there are no objections, I put the motion. [Interjections.] In light of the objection, the motion without notice may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice now becomes a notice of motion on the Order paper.

 

51ST BIRTHDAY OF THE LATE SOUTH AFRICAN ICON, BRENDA FASSIE

(Draft Resolution)

 

Mr N M PAULSEN: House Chair, I move without notice:

 

That the House -

 

1. notes that yesterday, 3 November mark the 51st birth day of the late South African music icon Brenda fassie;

 

1. further notes that the Brenda Nokuzola Fassie was born on 3 November 1964 in Langa Township, Cape Town and went on to revolutionised the music industry in South Africa in a manner never seen before, even during the time in apartheid authorities did everything in their power to suppress any form of black talent;

 

1. acknowledges that the iconic performer left such an indelible legacy for the music industry in South Africa with a staines tracks as Weekend Special, Vulindlela, Nomakanjani, Wedding Day and many others and these are songs that will never die and continue to find resonance with many South Africans;

 

1. further acknowledges that Madonna of the townships as she can known break down every single barrier that apartheid and the corrupt and abusive music industry put around the careers of black artists;

 

1. notes that Brenda was so love by South Africans that she would filled up capacity any venue where she was an attraction, including the then Ellis Park Stadium;

 

1. sends its word of appreciation to the family of Brenda Fassie for giving up Brenda for the greater good of the country;

 

1. calls on the government to build an academy, named and dedicated to Brenda to develop township talent, trained this talent to manage finances and the precious of celebrity life in a responsible manner to avoid taking drugs and to be able to standup to music producers who often take artists for granted.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If there are no objections, I put the motion. [Interjections.] In light of the objection, the motion without notice may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice now becomes a notice of motion on the Order Paper.

INCIDENT WHERE TWO FIDELITY SECURITY GUARDS WERE SHOT AND WOUNDED BY ALLEGED ROBBERS

 

(Draft Resolution)

 

Mr M W FILTANE: Chair, I move without notice:

 

That the House -

 

1. notes that there is an incident reported where two fidelity security guards were shot and wounded by alleged robbers;

 

1. further notes that the event took place in the St Barnabas Hospital precinct in Libode, Eastern Cape;

 

1. acknowledges that the incident happened after they decided to enter into the hospital precinct for safety when their car was chased down by an unknown Toyota Fortuner;

 

1. condemns any form of criminal activities that continue to be perpetuated by our deviant criminals;

 

1. wishes the two security guards speedy recovery from their injuries.

 

Agreed to.

 

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON FINANCE ON 2015 REVISED FISCAL FRAMEWORK

 

Mr Y I Carrim: Hon House Chairperson, comrades and colleagues, basically my responsibility is to take through an overview of the report that we adopted yesterday, the Fiscal Framework Report. We had the parliamentary budget office, trade unions, the Finance and Fiscal Commission, academics and NGOs making representations to us in the public hearings. They were not enough of them and there were not well enough arrange. I think Parliament needs to do more to secure public participation.

 

What we have agreed to, I think across all parties is that we can’t just have the public come - first we have the Minister and Deputy Minister and the team coming to make representations, Minister, to Parliament and to the committees concerned. And then we have the public make representations to us. We think Minister that now the Treasury should come back so that we have both sides and then we can listen to the Public Benefit Organisation, PBO, with its independent advisor and have a report that is more balanced and has greater depth.

 

We also think that when we adopting the actual report like yesterday - the Fiscal Framework Report, we like Treasury to be there because issues came up that we needed clarification in the last instance. We need an activist Parliament; we need a more people-centered Parliament and the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement, the Fiscal Framework and the Adjustment Appropriations does require far more participation from the public then we are able to secure in this fifth term of Parliament.

 

We signalled to the officials of Nationals Treasury that we need more active engagement. Not that they don’t of course engage with all the stakeholders and indeed, by the standards of many committees that I have chaired and the committees that I have been responsible for and have oversight over, National Treasury does in fact consult as it did today in looking at the two tax bills before us.

 

We have suggested in our report, not suggested, but recommended in our report, Minister, as you may well know, that National Treasury considers the submissions made by the stakeholders and reports to us when it comes to us. It should report to the two committees concerned or the four committees which included the NCOP in the first quarter of next year, after the Minister presents the Budget in February.

 

We had a representation from Ilifa Labantwana - an NGO that focus on early childhood development, ECD. We are very struck by what they had to say. Of course we know these things but it is important that they came and said it yet again.

 

Let me read what our report says. It says that the NGO holds that scientific evidence shows that investment in early childhood education, the period from conception to age three, offers higher economic returns compared to an equal investment in education at later stages in life.

 

What chance have we got of securing relative equality in our society if we do not invest more in early childhood development? Which is not to say, by the way, if there is any subtext here, that we mustn’t give more money to tertiary education. But if we are going to achieve egalitarianism, relative social equality, if we are going to reduce inequalities, we have to invest more in early childhood development.

 

In fact, they threw back to us what the NDP says and they also pointed out, the inadequacies in the national EDC system. Obviously, Minister, you have to work with the Minister of Social Development. We do not say it is a Treasury matter alone. Government as a whole needs to be preoccupied like us. What we are struck about, comrades, is that they stressed the need to support non-centre-based care and home-based programmes to provide the foundation for equality. They were concerned that the Medium Term Budget Policy Statement, MTBPS, is too limited in its focus and allocation of ECD resources to ensure a meaningful realisation of ECD priorities as set out ... I thought I have 10 minutes. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): You have five minutes, hon member, of which three and half is now expired. [Interjections.] You must be sorted out with the ... [Interjections.]

 

Mr Y I Carrim: Let me focus on the education issue. We agree that the Standing Committee on Finance have to work with the Appropriations Committee. We have said it very clearly in our report that there are two key aspects, the no-fee increases for 2016 and the funding of free tertiary education for the needy. We did not say poor, but needy, because we don’t want to lose what is called the missing middle. We think it is for government to sit with all the stakeholders and secure some degree of consensus as far as possible on what do we mean by needy.

 

We are saying in the first instance whilst it is the Appropriations Committee’s responsibility, the Finance Committee on both sides feel that some consideration should be given to Department of Higher Education and Training, DHET, reprioritising its own budget, that the universities must come to party to extend they can. Consideration we also feel needs to be given to the Sector Education and Training Authority, Seta, and the National Skills Fund, whilst ensuring that the skills training needs of the country are not unduly undermined.

 

We also recommend that through engagement, we consider providing free education to the needy and that is the concept that needs clarity and definition and we feel that the executive working on that and come to Parliament. We also feel that the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, Nsfas, repayment of loans and bursaries should be done appropriately. Once the person graduates, then they can afford to pay, more needs to be done to secure the money they owe the state so that incoming students or a larger number of people can be allocated funds.

 

We also stressed the need to recognise our concerns as a committee but National Treasury shares many of these – about the declining revenues during the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF, period, the decline in the contingency reserve and the physical risks posed by South African Airways.

 

We suggested to the Minister that reasonably soon, National Treasury should work with the South African Airways and ensure that it is financially viable. We are also, like National Treasury, concerned about the high rate of debt-to-GDP ratio and increasing debt-service costs. We believe that we should be managing ways that do not undermine the country’s developmental goals. We also want more clarity on the physical rules of ... [Time expired.]

 

The Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved: That the Report be adopted.

 

Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters and Democratic Alliance dissenting).

 

Report accordingly adopted.

 

Declarations of vote made on behalf of the Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Inkatha Freedom Party, National Freedom Party, United Democratic Movement, African Independent Congress and African National Congress.

 

Declarations of vote:

Mr D J MAYNIER: Hon Chairperson, the Standing Committee on Finance’s Report on Revised Fiscal Framework is a slapdash. That is because the report was a rush job put together at the last minute without any proper deliberations, largely because somebody, somewhere was eager to please the Finance Minister and accommodate his travel plans. The report does not properly deal with the current recent capital expenditure, the primary balance where there is a deficit of R24 billion, the budget balance where there is a deficit of R157,9 billion continuing to liabilities which are now at R485 billion, all the nuclear bill programme which is estimated to be a trillion rand.

 

The report does however mention and notes with concern the gross national debts which is now R2 trillion and the high debts service costs which are now R127,9 billion. The numbers are staggering and if you listen to former President Kgalema Motlanthe, they are red flags and yet took significant effort and I have to say a thick skin just to achieve a note with concern in this report, let alone any deliberations as to whether debt levels or debts service interest costs are reasonable.

 

However, the low point of this shambles with the National Treasury who refused to provide comprehensive information on contingent liabilities the public sector did and the public sector buying requirements. We are now on a collision costs and I want the National Treasury to listen very carefully. I am not your girly slave, if you want a war that’s fine but know this, you’ve come to the right place and you will lose and you will lose badly. The next time I ask a question, stop zigzagging and answer the question as you are required to do by the Constitution. You have been quiet ... [Time expired.] [Applause.]

 

Ms M O MOKAUSE: House Chair, the EFF rejects the adoption of the report by the Standing Committee on Finance. The recommendations provided are of the committee that is in denial like the rest of the government that our economy is in crisis and it failed to offer any practical solution. The current public debt that is just under 50% of the gross domestic product, GDP, is not suitable and will collapse this country’s budget. Today South Africa spends more on servicing the debt that we spend on both higher and basic education and health combined.

 

Last year South Africa paid more than R114 billion just to service the debts. What is even more alarming is the fact that while the entire budget is growing at an average of 6,5% and all other social services expenditure, the allocation to service the public debt is projected to grow at more than 10%. This will not only collapse the budget but soon it will put the sovereignty of this country in further jeopardy. Not only in the public debt a serious cause of concern, this is happening when the economy is growing. The downward revision from the over sort 2% initially projected was even necessary. There was no basis for this because it is obvious the economy is not growing at all and the ANC government is in denial.

 

The Minister of Finance must stop misleading the nation by claiming that the economy is not growing due to the fact that of post 2008 financial crisis because that is not true and you know it but you keep on misleading South Africa. You know that you can’t perform as the ANC. The current global average growth is well over 3%, Southern African Development Community, SADC, members are at an average of 5%. For example ... [Interjections.] ... economy is projected to grow at 5,5% in 2015. The EFF rejects the budget. Thank you. [Time expired.]

 

Ms S J NKOMO: Hon Chair, firstly I would just like to state that the IFP supports this report. This is one committee that is also very important to us which I do attend and it is commendable and work noting again that the National Treasury aims to reduce the budget deficit over the medium-term from 3,3% in 2016-17 to 3% in 2018-19. Poor growth outlook over the medium-term remains a concern and we agree that any additional revenue proposals have to be sensitive to the impact on growth. Levels of debts must be carefully managed and engaged, especial in light of the current high negative rates of exchange volatility.

 

Tertiary institution fee increases in government subsidy of the same for 2016 must be allowed for and the necessary adjustment made. We actually applaud the formation of the new committee by the President that will look at addressing the issues of the students’ fees. Overall funding for higher education requires and urgent funding model and we look forward to the Minister advising us as to exactly how this will be accomplished in the coming years. The Shortfall in a National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, over 2016-17 period although only approximately a challenge it will also need to be met by Treasury.

In respect of early childhood development and programmes we agree that there must be shifting the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF, to ensure that new policies are implemented effectively and in so doing lay strong foundations for the achievement of the goals as espoused in the National Development Plan, NDP. I think when the chairperson of the committee spoke on this matter of early childhood development members were actually taking notes and this is what we are bringing forth as the IFP. I thank you. [Time expired.]

 

Prof N M KHUBISA: Hon Chairperson and hon members, the NFP welcomes the report as to be expected the committee has justified the placing emphasis on the results of the recent fees-must-fall protest, and in particular in the implications of government undertaking that there will be increase in fees for the next year on the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement. The NFP calls for the government to speed up the issue of free education in our country and we believe that this is possible. Again, the NFP says that the National Treasury should engage more effectively with various departments to see what more can be done about the crippling drought affecting the key parts of our country. We believe that this intervention might be too little too late.

The NFP has been warning this hon House continuously since last year that we are facing a looming water crisis. We warned continuous that the drought could seriously threaten our food security and leave millions of our people without access to clean water and safe drinking water.

 

Ezindaweni nje zasemakhaya imfuyo ifaya izigingqane, ezindaweni ezifana noLundi kanye nakwezinye izindawo abantu bafelwa izinkomo, izimbuzi, bafelwa yiyo yonke into ekhona ngenxa yesomiso. Ngeviki elidlule siye sabona uhulumeni ememezela izindawo ezifana neKwaZulu-Natali ne-Free State njengezindawo ezisengozini [disaster areas]. Siyabona futhi ezindaweni ezifana neLembe ukuthi abantu sebethola amanzi ngemuva kwezinsuku ezintathu, lokhu yisimo esibucayi kakhulu ezweni lakithi. Ezindaweni ezifana naboMtuba nakwezinye izindawo nakwamanye ama-district abantu sebaphuza emaxhaphozini baphuze nezinkomo, baphuze udaka uqobo lwalo. Isimo sibucayi ezweni lakithi, abantu bayafa yisomiso, imfuyo iyafa yisomiso. Ilokhu esikushoyo ukuthi uhulumeni akazilungise lezi zinto.

 

Okunye esikushoyo njenge-NFP sithi uhulumeni akaphuthume abale abantu eminywangweni ukuze kungabi nezisebenzi-mbumbulu [ghost employees] ngoba zilokhu zidla imali kahulumeni, imali okufanele ngabe isiza abakhokhi bentela ukuze izwe lizoqhubeka liye phambili, kulunge isimo somnotho kuqedwe ububha ezweni lakithi. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

 

[The livestock is dying in its numbers in the rural areas, in areas like Ulundi and in other places the people are losing their cows, goats and everything that they have because of the drought. Last week the government made an announcement about places like KwaZulu-Natal and the Free State as disaster areas. We see in the places like iLembe, people receive water after three days, this is a critical condition in our country. In places like Mtubatuba and in other places, and in other districts people drink with cows from the swamps, they drink mud water. The condition is critical in our country, people and the livestock are dying due to the drought. We are saying the government must fix these things.

 

As the NFP we are also saying, the government must hurry in counting employees in the departments so that there won’t be ghost employees because they are using the government’s money, the money that should be assisting the taxpayers in order for this country to move forward, fix economic situation and to eradicate poverty.]

 

The NFP welcomes the report.

Mr N L S KWANKWA: House Chair, thank you very much for that reminder, indeed I’m hon Kwankwa of the UDM. The UDM grudgingly supports this report for one simple reason ...

 

... ixesha elikhoyo lokwenza le nkqubo ye-BRRR alanelanga. Kukuthi ukuba siyenze kakuhle, siyenzisise okanye siyingxamise, sigqithise nje usana kunina. [... the time left for this project of BRRR is not enough. It is upon us to do it properly, thoroughly or do it for the sake of doing it.]

 

If we look at Mr Minister, for example, I always have a serious challenge with the focus like if we do look at stock of public debt ...  

 

... apho kuvela kubelula ukuba kulo nyaka ingeniso iza kuba ngama-48 ekhulwini, kunyaka-mali olandelayo wama-2018-19 iza kwehla iye kuma-45 ekhulwini. Uye ufumanise ukuba la manani abaxekile. [... where it is very easy to say the gross within one year will be 48%, it will be down by 45% in the next financial year 2018-19. You will find that these numbers are exaggerated.]

 

It is the same with the issue where you look at, ...

 

...umzekelo uthi, ityala lelizwe (budget deficit) liza kwehla ukusukela ku-3,3 ekhulwini ngowama- 2016-17 ukuya ku-3 ekhulwini ngowama-2018-19 ... [... for an example, the budget deficit is going down from 3,3% in the financial year 2016-17 to 3% in 2018-19 ...]

 

... and yet the outlook, if you read all these documents, is very bleak, in your own words that when it comes to the performance of the economy you have to revise down the growth rate of the country and so on. The other issue which is important is that as people who first advocate the issue of state intervention’s policies to the ruling party, our new mantra should be to you now that the problem with the South African economy is not one where government is not doing enough but the problem lies with the government that is doing a lot more but doing it less well. One can find that very easily on the state-owned enterprises where the guarantees the R400 million ...

 

... le besele niyibekile. [... the one you already save.]

 

More than R240 billion has been used up but the problem is that most of these state-owned entities, SOEs, are still unstable.

 

Siyavuya xa sibona ukuba u-Eskom noko ingathi uza ebantwini, uyaphakama kwaye uqhwalela ngendlela. [We are happy to see that Eskom is doing good for the people and is trying to be alive again.]

 

But the rest of them are not doing well and it means that we did not get any value for money ...

 

... ngoku imali yethu sele eyityile uSAA, ukwenza nje umzekelo. [... for example, SAA has already use our money.]

 

We have an issue where serious problem with contingency reserves that were used for salaries which is consumption expenditure but you find that when it comes to the public sector we are not getting value for money, they are not commensurate rises in the productive levels. Thank you very much. [Time expired.]

 

Mr L NTSHAYISA: Hon Chairperson, the AIC welcomes the report. The proper Revised of Fiscal Framework can assist the government to fight the challenges of unemployment, poverty and inequality. The consultation that has been done without the stakeholders like Federation of Unions of South Africa and others is very much appreciated. We also acknowledge the improvement on the country’s debt ratios; otherwise if the debt is not reduced it would not be easy for our economy to grow. The country’s social economy would make the government to be easily fought for the university fees and the funding model of the National Student Financial Aid Scheme will also be carried out.

 

It would be proper therefore to assist the students who are coming from the poor background not just to finance the rich. The Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement, MTBPS, has tried to balance the budget and the expected expenditure. Universities should produce more skilled citizens who think would like to be employed. We need more of job creation than jobseekers. Perhaps the reconciliation between the two would help in growing the economy of our country. However, we need to see how the economy growth is to be stipulated. The recommendations that have been made by the committee are proper and we think that they should be considered. There are many issues that should be tackled: Water and sanitation, infrastructure and other basics.

 

Lastly, can I be given a chance now to manage that corner it seemed to be getting out of hands? Thank you very much.

 

Mr D D VAN ROOYEN: Hon House Chairperson, the Revised Fiscal Framework reflects proportionality and prioritisation in terms of the ANC government policy and the relationship between fiscal policy and the Medium-Term Strategic Framework. It reflects, among other things, effort under difficult global circumstances of sustaining the principle of inequitable sharing of resources. Whilst we hear the noise that the level of debt is too high, no provides any compelling empirical evidence as to what a sustainable debt level should be for a country of our GDP size, rather rhetoric is stated with no evidence to back it.

 

I must indicate to those who are not attending our finance committee that we have resolved that we are going to assign the budget office to do study on what is it that you are referring to when we speak of an acceptable debt level ratio and we are challenging all these parties that are not attending the study group to come on board and participate in this important process. We have listened to the calls for changes to the fiscal framework as if this a merely a matter of fact and easily instituted to amend a Money Bills there must be empirical evidence advance that can demonstrate that any change will ensure an appropriate balance between revenue expenditure and borrowing that the cost of the current spending is not defer the future generation that there is adequate provision for spending when infrastructure development, capital spending and maintenance.

 

The manner in which changes to the 2015 fiscal framework are that they in call for today do not take into account any of this legal requirements. On higher education the funding thereof the proposed alternative that has been tabled mentioned today, no fee increases in tertiary education institution. As the ANC, we support this Revised Fiscal Framework. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

 

Mr M Q NDLOZI: House Chair, please register the absolute rejection of the report by the EFF and fees must fall.

 

Mr M WATERS: Chair, why didn’t you put the question? However, please note the objections of the DA.

 

Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters and Democratic Alliance dissenting).

 

Report accordingly adopted.

 

The House adjourned at 18:25.

__________

 

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

 

ANNOUNCEMENTS

 

National Assembly

 

The Speaker

 

1.       Introduction of Bills

 

1. The Minister of International Relations and Cooperation

 

1. Foreign Service Bill [B 35 – 2015] (National Assembly – proposed sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice of its introduction published in Government Gazette No 39211 of 17 September 2015.]

 

         Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on International Relations and Cooperation of the National Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160.

 

         In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of the Bill may be submitted to the JTM. The Bill may only be classified after the expiry of at least three parliamentary working days since introduction.

 

2.      Referral of Bill to Committee

 

1. The Division of Revenue Amendment Bill [B 27 - 2015] (National Assembly – proposed section 76) has been referred to the Standing Committee on Appropriations in accordance with the Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Act, 2009 (Act No. 9 of 2009).

 

COMMITTEE REPORTS

 

National Assembly

 

1.       Report of the Portfolio Committee on Health on the Medicines and Related Substances Amendment Bill [B6D-2014] (National Assembly – sec 76), dated 4 November 2015:

 

The Portfolio Committee on Health having considered the Medicines and Related Substances Amendment Bill [B6D-2014] (National Assembly – sec 76), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.

 

The Committee further reports that the Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF) objects to the Bill.

 

Report to be considered.

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