Hansard: NA: Unrevised hansard
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 03 Jun 2015
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
WEDNESDAY, 03 JUNE 2015
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PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
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The House met at 15:01.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.
NEW MEMBERS
(Announcement)
The SPEAKER: Hon members, before we proceed with today’s business I wish to make the following announcements.
The vacancy which occurred owing to the loss of membership of the National Assembly by Ms K Litchfield-Tshabalala in terms of section 47(3)(c) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996, had been filled by the nomination of Dr H Chewane with effect from 20 May 2015. Hon Chewane, you are welcome to the House. [Applause.]
The vacancy which occurred owing to the loss of membership of the National Assembly by Mr M M Tshishonga in terms of section 47(3)(c) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996, had been filled by the nomination of Mr J M K Mahumapelo with effect from 18 May 2015. Hon Mahumapelo, are you in the House? You are welcome, Sir. [Applause.]
The vacancy which occurred in the National Assembly owing to the resignation of Mr B D Joseph had been filled by the nomination of Mr M N Paulsen with effect from 20 May 2015. Hon Paulsen, you are welcome to the House. [Applause.]
Lastly, I also wish to announce that the vacancy which occurred in the National Assembly due to the passing away of Mr O C Chabane had been filled by the nomination of Mr M J Maswanganyi with effect from 27 May 2015. Hon Maswanganyi, you are welcome to the House, Sir, and we hope you will enjoy. [Applause.]
All the hon members that have been welcome to the House are welcome to a very vibrant Fifth Parliament and we hope they will enjoy it.
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY
GOVERNANCE
Cluster 3
MINISTERS:
Audit fees owed to Auditor-General by municipalities
106. Mr E M Mthethwa (ANC) asked the Minister of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs:
- With reference to the objectives of the Back to Basics Programme to improve the audit outcomes in local government by 2019, (a) which municipalities owe the Auditor-General audit fees and (b) what total amount do they owe;
(2) whether the Auditor-General instituted any legal action against defaulting municipalities; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what are the relevant details? NO2170E
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Speaker, the information that I am going to provide to the House and to the hon member’s question is provided by the Auditor-General’s office.
There are a number of municipalities owing the Auditor-General audit fees. The total amount is R323 million as it stands today. The total amount per municipality and provinces as set out in an exchequer that would be submitted to Parliament.
In terms of clause 23(2) of the Public Audit Act, an auditee must settle the account for audit fees within 30 days from the date of invoice, failing which the Auditor-General must promptly take legal steps to recover the amount, unless it is not practical to do so.
Secondly, the Auditor-General’s outstanding debt, in particular local government debt, has reached such a point that the Auditor-General, AG, in accordance with the requirements of the Public Audit Act, took a decision last year to litigate for long outstanding audit fees.
Currently, legal actions instituted against defaulting auditees with fees outstanding for more than 60 days except under certain circumstances including audit fees in arrears but where commitment is in place to pay in accordance with the payment arrangements with the Auditor-General’s office, amounts below R200 000 and cases where it is not practical to litigate for outstanding fees.
Between 01 January 2015 and 30 April 2015, the Auditor-General issued summons against 31 municipalities. To date, the litigation process has yielded positive results as a number of municipalities have approached the Auditor-General to settle their outstanding debts through entering into payment arrangements with the Auditor-General.
The litigation for outstanding audit fee is in line with the requirements of the Public Audit Act where the Auditor-General takes legal steps to collect amounts from defaulting auditees. Thank you.
Mr E M MTHETHWA: Thank you Minister for this elaborative answer. We would like to encourage you in all these municipalities particularly where there are suspensions. We also welcome the dismal of that manager. I’m told that he went back to court and lost the case with costs.
Minister, can you also tell us, going forward how are you going to deal with other issues like Oudtshoorn with particular focus to the Western Cape and also the turnaround strategy? I could see that you are implementing the Back to Basics in the same issue. Thanks, Chair.
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Speaker, what the hon member says we need to continue, not only to support the Auditor-General, AG, in terms of collecting the fees, but also to ensure that the kind of good results that the Auditor-General has announced today for the 2013-14 financial year begin to mark a point from which we will continue to improve the audit results of municipalities.
Today, the Auditor-General announced that out of the 335 municipalities and municipal entities audited, 102 improved their results, 194 remained constant, only 27 have regressed and 148 have unqualified audits – its over 53%. It is up from 120 last year. Auditees that have unqualified opinions now count for 76% of the total local government expenditure of R315 billion. What we are saying here is that of the total expenditure of R315 billion by municipalities, 76% of that is that spent by municipalities that are unqualified in terms of the financial audit opinion.
Most of the money is spent by municipalities that have their financial accounts in good order as far as the Auditor-General is concerned. We should congratulate them, Speaker. [Applause.]
Over and above that, an overwhelming 96% of auditees submitted their financial statements on time which is also a record given the history of municipalities in South Africa. [Applause.] If you read the press statement – I appeal to the hon members to do so – you will find a lot of details where there are recognitions whilst there are still many challenges that we have to confront.
On the matter of Oudtshoorn in particular, today the member of executive council of the province, MEC, in the Western Cape responsible for Local Governance and myself have agreed and announced that we will undertake further measures and interventions in this municipality if by 05 of this month, which is Friday, the mayor doesn’t take steps to adopt the support package that we have both as province and national outlined for the municipality. There will be further news on this matter early next week. Thank you.
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Speaker, hon Minister, you have touched on the issue of the 30 days payment. My biggest problem is that if municipalities default on big institutions such as the AG, what happens to an ordinary man in the street who has to, on a daily basis, deal with the red tapes and bureaucracy of municipalities which, for some odd reasons or other, do not want to comply with the 30 days rule.
The negative effects of that of course are all known to small businesses in particular. What interventions, Minister, are you going to put in place to ensure that municipalities strictly adhere to the 30 day rule? Thank you?
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Speaker, we certainly agree with the hon Hlengwa that the 30 day rule should be one that in the first instance apply to payments to the Auditor-General, secondly, to small businesses and to anybody else who is owed money by municipalities.
I think as part of our efforts, we all – the Auditor-General, National Treasury, SA Local Government Association, Salga, and ourselves – need to continue to increase that discipline in terms of payments within 30 days by municipalities. Hopefully, we can actually do the kind of work that we have done at provincial and national level in municipalities, that is, to get detailed records of which municipalities are persistently not complying with this good practice and begin to work out with them and perhaps without them, as well what kind of penalties could be imposed if they don’t comply with this rule. We certainly agree with the hon Hlengwa that this is a good practice and one that municipal leaders should actually embrace. Thank you.
Mr K J MILEHAM: Speaker, Minister, on a topic of municipal creditors, the National Treasury recently decided to withhold equitable share funding to municipalities because of their ecognizes to Eskom and various water boards. Do you support the withholding of the equitable share to municipalities? If so, what didn’t you rather evoke section 139(5) or section 154 of the Constitution rather than letting the National Treasury act as a debt collector for Eskom and the water boards?
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Speaker, that is a substantive question that the hon Mileham has in the Question Paper in relation to withholding of the equitable share. I won’t be in the House at that stage and the Deputy Minister will address it.
This is an initiative which is within the powers of the National Treasury if they believe that financial management in any sphere of government is not being conducted in a proper basis.
The hon Mileham is correct that there are other options, but remember this is the initiative of the National Treasury where we had good discussions with all the 20 top municipalities owing Eskom money, the Treasury as well Salga. I think we have reached the position now where we have most municipalities that owe money to Eskom. They have payment arrangements with Eskom. Remember our issue here is not to beat up the municipality, but to find a way and solutions to these problems and encourage them to behave in the right kind of way.
In terms of 139(5), the Treasury, the provinces ideally or ourselves could take that kind of intervention when budgets are not passed. And that is not the issue that we are confronted with here.
Prof N M KHUBISA: Speaker, hon Minister, linked to the question of the Auditor-General securing audit fees from municipalities, is the issue of municipalities ascending the ladder graduating from disclaimer to clean audit. The Minister would agree with me that in the 2013-14 year, most of these municipalities that achieved a disclaimer were from Limpopo. Could the Minister refer to a percentage of municipalities in Limpopo that have graduated from disclaimer to clean audit or otherwise? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Speaker, the hon Khubisa is right that we have seen significance progress, in fact, in all provinces. I am going to read from the statement that I issued today:
All provinces showed improvement in their audit outcomes. The biggest contributors to the number of the so-called clean audits are Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal and the Western Cape. Limpopo deserves a special mention. For their 2012-13 financial year, only one of its 32 auditees received an unqualified audit an the others received qualified, adverse or disclaimer audits. This has improved dramatically to 15 unqualified audits for 2013-14, which means that from the one year to the next 14 additional municipalities have now achieved unqualified audits.
Certainly congratulations are due to them. [Applause.]
Particulars regarding wage agreement and public sector wage bill
126. Mr J J Mc Gluwa (DA) asked the Minister of Public Service and Administration:
What (a) are the details of the wage agreement that was reached with the trade unions representing public service employees and workers and (b) is the Government’s long-term plan with regard to the burgeoning public sector wage bill? NO2192E
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Hon Speaker, on 19 May this year, 2015, the Public Service Co-ordinating Bargaining Council witnessed the culmination of intensive and extensive negotiations between organised labour and government, which led to the successful resolution of those negotiations. The resolutions, amongst others, enjoy 84% majority signature from the trade unions and provide the following: a multi-year salary adjustment and improvements to conditions of service for employees for the period 2015-16 to 2017-18; a salary adjustment of 7% in the year 2015-16; a salary adjustment projected consumer price index, CPI, plus 1 for the two outer years; family responsibility leave of five working days for parents who have children with severe special needs; and medical assistance for in-service employees on the Government Employee’s Medical Scheme will be adjusted by 28,5% from 17%, effective from 1 January 2015.
Regarding the second part of your question, the eradication of positions that have not been filled for a long time in government and that government’s position is that they should not be filled going forward. Tightening and review of the performance management system, where the service will retain those who will require trial, competence to ecogn their mandates, managing carefully, attrition and determining the post vacated and those additional to the establishment should actually be filled. Thank you.
Mr J J MC GLUWA: Speaker, just on appoint of correction, I think, Minister, the second part of my question is really not part of a question asked by me. But, safe to say, thank you, Minister, for your response in terms of what has been offered. I want to emphasise and say that the DA is concerned about productivity in this country. The DA is concerned about service delivery, and I think it’s not only the DA. Even your own members, Minister, are running around in protest of poor service delivery, burning the ruling party’s T-shirts, wearing blue T-shirts.
The question that I would like to ask in terms of this new wage bill is: What agreements, Minister, and guarantees have been made between government and the unions to ensure better productivity and service delivery? Because this is what it’s all about. We might have adhered to their call and to their plight, but, on the other hand, we as government must in turn reserve a better service and better productivity. So, what agreement has been made when it comes to service delivery and productivity between government and the unions as such? I thank you.
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: I am glad, hon Speaker, to learn that the member is concerned about productivity and I am certain that everybody would be concerned, especially government. The plight of the workers have to be taken on board by everybody, including government. At the same time, with the systems and the tools in government to ensure performance by workers and everybody else, those things are meant to ensure that, at the end of the day, there is value for money and service to the people. You raised the issue of service delivery. Remember that government’s Batho Pele principle is part of this service delivery we are talking about and it continues to determine the way in which we engage with public servants. So, thanks for your concern. I hope it’s a concern shared by everybody. There has to be value for money. Thank you.
Mr S N SWART: Madam Speaker, we in the ACDP were also pleased when we noted the success with the wage negotiations and the agreement that was reached. However, hon Minister, I wonder if you’d comment on the public sector unions’ announcement yesterday that they are threatening to abandon the recent wage agreement after government indicated that it will raise salaries by 6,4% for the first of the three-year deal and not the 7% as agreed? And, if this is correct, why has government gone back on the initial agreement? Will this not result in the strike action that we had all hoped would be avoided? Thank you very much.
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Our agreement with organised labour over the past years is that we base the cost of living adjustment on the CPI projection – and projection is projection. At the end of the year we will know the exact CPI. We do not know it now, because it’s a projection. What normally happens is that the claw back is from the side of the workers if the projection was not in line with what they expected. If I can mention an example, this year the CPI is projected at 4,8% and that was the basis of the negotiations, but all indications point to the fact that the actual CPI would be above that. What would then happen in that instance is that government will have to pay workers the extra amount.
So, it happens here, it also happens the other way round if it’s government. So, the agreement is 7%. The 0,6% we are discussing now, which had been clawed back by government, was because of the projections. Anything can happen, as I said, as we go forward this year. Thank you very much.
Mr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Speaker, through you to the Minister. Minister, it’s become the norm for public service increases to be far above that of the consumer price index, and we can only ascribe that to the bullying tactics of some of the Cosatu-affiliated public sector unions. Now, the question is: Since many economists and analysts agree that these wage increases are pushing South Africa to the proverbial fiscal brink, what guarantees do we have that government has the extremely expensive public sector wage bill under control? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: There is no bullying here. There has never been any bullying. It’s negotiations. The concern about the wage bill is a genuine one from your side, but you would know that there was no way that government would have agreed to a settlement which was going to be way above the inflation. Even with the negotiations that have taken place, whatever agreement you reach, you still have to raise that money. It has to come from somewhere. So, therefore, the level at which we settled was from the point of the projected fiscus at the last negotiations, as we were looking forward to these negotiations.
And I can assure you, bullying tactics would come from all sides, but this was an engagement, a very thorough one, an intensive engagement, as you have noticed. It took almost six months. So, we had to ensure that, whatever happens, we are aware of the economic crisis in our country and see what needs to be done and at the same time compensate. Thank you.
Ms N V NQWENISO: Speaker, Mr Minister, public servants are the most important machinery that we rely on for public service delivery. Therefore, it means they must be paid adequately to sustain their livelihoods and to also boost their morale. Right now the public service personnel’s morale is very low, and you, Minister, are not helping by changing the agreed 7% to 6,4%. Why are you not paying them, as agreed by the Public Service Co-ordinating Bargaining Council, PSCBC, and the unions? The President was given recommendations by a credible judge who is leading the commission, that payments or increases to high-earning politicians should not be authorised. Yet they were paid. Where did that money come from? And he paid us, here in Parliament, 5%. That’s too much, because lower levels, levels three to five, only earn between R3 500 and R9 000. Compare that to the 5% that you have given us and compared it to the 7% you want to give to the public servants. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Speaker, I am glad that the hon member is volunteering her salary to compensate for the shortfall in workers’ increments. But let’s start again, hon Speaker. The agreement we have with organised labour is that if the projections prove to be above what our negotiations were premised on, government has to pay back workers and it has happened. And I also said to you that if this year, this 4,8% projection, the inflation proves to be above, government is going to pay back workers over and above the agreement we have reached, but if it proves to be below, government claws back from workers. So it’s part of the agreement. There is no reneging or change here; it is in the agreement. I would proffer the member with details of the agreement. Thank you.
Particulars of beneficiaries served by National Youth Development Agency
118. Mr M S Booi (ANC) asked the Minister in The Presidency:
What is the snapshot on the geographical bouquet of beneficiaries with specific economic areas on the National Youth Development Agencies? NO2184E
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (For the Minister in the Presidency): Hon Speaker, the Minister is on other engagements so I will be responding to this question.
The total number of young people who have been served by the National Youth Development Agency of South Africa, NYDA, offices is more than 2 million, all across the country. The eight programmes that the NYDA provides are as follows. The first is the grant funding programme, where more than 1 050 people received grants of various natures from the NYDA, totalling R29 million. The second programme is the second chance matriculation rewrite programme where more than 4 000 young people have received matriculation rewrite interventions.
The third is the job placement programme. To specifically zoom in, in terms of provinces, for instance in Gauteng, more than 1 414 young people have been placed through the NYDA intervention; in Limpopo, 1 301 young people; in the Western Cape, 300; in KwaZulu-Natal, 346; and so forth. The fourth NYDA programme is the job preparedness programme. To zoom in there per province, in Mpumalanga, more than 5 199 young people have been prepared for jobs; in Limpopo, 7 115; in the Northern Cape, 301; in the Eastern Cape, 4 861; and so forth.
The fifth programme is career guidance. Let’s zoom in in terms of provinces. The North West, 72 066 young people received career guidance from the NYDA; in the Free State, 29 032; in Gauteng, 323 049; in the Eastern Cape, 103 000; and in KwaZulu-Natal, 75 940. In the sixth programme, which is the national youth service volunteer programme, close to 20 000 young people, nationally, have been recruited into one form or another of national youth service, working with the different government departments.
In terms of programme seven, voucher, market linkage, mentorship and entrepreneurship, the number of young people, per province again, is 6 293 in the Eastern Cape; 4 889 in the Free State; 5 425 in the North West; and 8 847 in Mpumalanga. All the figures of the other provinces will be given to the hon member. The last programme, programme eight, is jobs created and sustained through economic development programmes. If we zoom in per province, it is Gauteng with 832 jobs; Mpumalanga, 898; Limpopo, 637; North West, 97; the Northern Cape, 70; the Free State, 208; the Western Cape, 264; the Eastern Cape 795; and KwaZulu-Natal, 546. We strongly believe that this shows that the NYDA is, indeed, working for the young people of our country.
Ms Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANA: Hon Speaker, I thank the hon Deputy Minister and would like him to elaborate to the House: Which provinces, in particular, need resources so as to ensure that the branches are well capacitated for the eight programmes of the NYDA. I thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (For the Minister in the Presidency): Speaker, I thank the hon member for the question. Firstly, the current budget of the NYDA of around R400 million has proved to be insufficient compared to the programmes and services that the NYDA provides. Thus, the NYDA has submitted a request to the portfolio committee for an increase in terms of their budget, and are also implementing measures to reduce other costs in order to direct those costs towards NYDA services.
In terms of the shortage, all provinces need intervention in terms of NYDA offices and services. In particular, for instance, in KwaZulu-Natal, there is only one branch of the NYDA, which is in Durban. It is the busiest branch of the NYDA in the country, and we think we need to expand to other areas of the province. Similarly, in the Western Cape, Eastern Cape and Limpopo, we think there is an urgent need for intervention in all those provinces, particularly given the high levels of unemployment, poverty and inequality there. Thank you.
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Speaker, the hon Deputy Minister has just touched on the issue of offices. This, of course, remains the biggest problem. The Deputy Minister says he thinks that we should ... that sounds nice. However, the issue is this: What concrete plans are there to ensure that the NYDA has a national footprint and that it reaches rural communities, and semirural communities, which is actually where the NYDA is needed the most?
The costs to travel to these city-centred offices have a huge impact on unemployed, young South Africans, who just don’t have the money. So, they have to spend too much money going to these places. Internet connectivity is not available in rural communities. So, let’s go beyond a concrete plan. It should be done; we all agree with that. What are the timeframes and timelines that will ensure that this actually happens? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (For the Minister in the Presidency): Speaker, as things stand, the NYDA does not only rely on their branch offices. We have encouraged them – and this has actually been working – to enter into agreements with individual municipalities to set up local youth offices which are supported by the NYDA. These provide critical NYDA services. As we speak, we will be opening the 130th local office in Eldorado on 13 June, as part of expanding the national footprint.
However, what the National Youth Policy 2020 also states is that it commits both local and provincial government to set up provincial capacity so that youth services are able to be provided wherever young people are. This has been part of the big problem. The reason why some of the municipalities have not been committing to provide the space for the NYDA to operate is that youth development and youth service has not been a funded mandate. Now that there is policy in place, we believe that we will be able to expand the NYDA’s footprint.
Lastly, there is a model which we implemented in Ekurhuleni which we are actually working on expanding throughout the whole country. The Ekurhuleni Metropolitan Municipality gave the NYDA office space in 10 areas. That has worked tremendously well, and that is why we are engaging directly with metros and district municipalities to provide office space so that the NYDA can provide those services. We are determined to ensure that the NYDA footprint is increased so that we more than triple the 2 million young people that we have reached out to over the last year.
Mr S C MNCWABE: Hon Speaker, would the Deputy Minister give us the actual figures of the youth-led businesses that have benefited from the agency during the 2013-14 financial year? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (For the Minister in the Presidency): Speaker, all the businesses that have been funded by the NYDA in 2013-14 are youth businesses. Thank you.
Dr M J CARDO: Speaker, the NYDA’s biggest economic beneficiaries are its own senior managers. According to its latest available annual report, the NYDA pays an average salary of R1,6 million to its top management team and an average salary of R1,1 million to its extensive senior management team.
Deputy Minister, what concrete steps are being taken to reduce the R186 million spent on salaries at the NYDA, which accounts for more than 45% of its budget; and will such steps include a reduction in the number of top and senior management posts?
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (For the Minister in the Presidency): Speaker, this is, of course, a new question. However, that’s not a reason not to respond to it.
The NYDA has, actually, presented to the portfolio committee that the hon Cardo belongs to their reorganisation strategy, which would result in not only the reduction of top management but also a savings of close to R37 million. Consultations are being concluded with the people affected, because we have laws that govern labour in this country. In addition, we are hoping that by the end of August, we will have put in place the new system, the new structure. All of this will lead to savings of more than R37 million, which we will redirect, or the NYDA will redirect, towards services for young people. Thank you.
Senior management position in national government visà vis other spheres of government
138. Mr L R Mbinda (PAC) asked the Minister of Public Service and Administration:
Why is the national Government top heavy with more senior management positions than those for spheres of government that are service-delivery orientated? NO2207E
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE (AS THE ACTING MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION): Speaker, the answer to this question is that the number of posts at the specific senior management service performance level, SMS performance level, required by either a national or provincial department, is determined by the nature and degree of complexity of discreet functions; and is based on proxy indicator of decision-making applied to functions and tasks to be performed at all levels.
The functional decomposition of an executive level legislator function allocated to a specific department in terms of constitutional mandate is either allocated at the national sphere or provincial sphere of government.
The Department of Public Service and Administration, the DPSA, has concluded a study on minimum norms and standards for the provisioning of senior management service posts, SMS posts, for provincial administrations, which is based on: A maximum threshold for the number of SMS posts to be determined; a weighed total value point and calculated on citizen segmentation factors; geographic accessibility and spatial norms; as well as reasonable minimum span of control and a complexity of the job role.
This study has been extended to the national sphere of government to determine the maximum number of SMS posts according to similar factors. The norm will also determine the ideal split between: How many SMS posts as a maximum should be located at a national level; and how many of such should be located at a provincial level?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Minister, we are on Question 138. Is that the reply to Question 138?
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE (AS THE ACTING MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION): Yes!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you. The hon Mbinda!
Mr L R MBINDA: Hon Chair, I am covered. Although my concern was around the bloated structures of the department, the Minister is however telling us that there is an involvement of the Department of Public Service and Administration, which I must trust.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you, hon member. Hon Minister, would you like to reply to that comment from the members?
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE (AS THE ACTING MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION): Well, he trusts the Department of Public Service and Administration, and we indeed would not disappoint him. Thank you. [Applause.]
Rev K R J MESHOE: Chairperson, it is estimated that in 1994, the public wage bill amounted to 5% of total government expenditure, but today it has escalated to about 39%. The Cabinet has more than 60 Ministers and their Deputy Ministers today, in a country of about 52 million people.
When one compares that with Nigeria, which has a population of more than 183 million people, and their cabinet consists of only 19 federal ministries; then one can easily conclude that our government is bloated.
Even though it is a President’s prerogative to appoint his Cabinet: Why does the hon Minister not prevail on the hon President to reduce the size of a Cabinet, so that more resources are freed up to support and bolster stronger more effective service deliver on the ground? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE (AS THE ACTING MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION): House Chair, I think this is a new question, but I suppose that hon Meshoe just likes to talk about –
Uzikhulumela ngeKhabinethi nje, baba. [He is just speaking about the Cabinet, sir.]
What would have helped this discussion would have been what you think is the contribution to our economy. Generally, I am not obliged to answer this question, but I noticed your interest in the Cabinet.
Mr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Chairperson, we in the DA also believe that this top-heavy senior management can directly be linked to the bloated size of Cabinet, but what is more and what we are finding is that many of the senior managers in the public service are now receiving what is known as golden handshakes, and in some cases I think they could be called platinum handshakes.
My question is: When the government believes that senior staff members are failing to perform adequately in their duties, why do they not follow the route of disciplinary action or the incapacity procedures which are provided for by law? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE (AS THE ACTING MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION): Hon House Chair, in line with what we said earlier on, the Department of Public Service and Administration has been engaging and visiting provinces and all other government structures, having introduced the organisational design mechanism to look into the allegations of top-heavy structures as the member has said. With that process in place, there is a concern about the general top-heavy structure within the public service which accounts for 1,3 million people employed by the state.
It was only prudent therefore that we had to embark in this process to determine at the end of the day: What is it that need to be done to ensure that which the public service need to achieve - like service delivery to our people – is taking place? That process and that particular programme of government are going on. This is coupled with what we said earlier on that: If there are posts which have not been filled for a particular numbers of years, those posts get frozen as part of the policy of government. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): The last supplementary question is to be asked by the hon Msimang.
Prof C T MSIMANG: Hon House Chair, now that it is meted that the government is top-heavy, I would like to know from the Minister: Where is the need to still appoint consultants since these senior managers or directors should be doing the work which is done by consultants?
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE (AS THE ACTING MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION): Hon Chair, the issue of consultants has been raised by the government itself over a period of time. What we have concluded on is that people who are employed to do what they are supposed to do, through the prescriptions from Treasury, should do what they are employed to do. But, where there has to be consultants employed by government, there should be absolute necessity for that to happen.
It would be impossible to do away totally with consultants, but the concern of the member, perhaps, is that the reduction from that point is valid. Hence, the government is dealing with this matter on an ongoing basis, because it is a worry. In some instances, consultants are appointed when, in fact, people who are employed to do the job are supposed to do it. Thanks you.
Technical interventions proposed by Centre for Public Service Innovation
119. Ms B P Mabe (ANC) asked the Minister of Public Service and Administration:
- Are there any specific technical interventions proposed or suggested by the Centre for Public Service Innovation (CPSI) to ensure improvement of service delivery interventions and (b) are there any specific departments or provinces which are used for pilot projects in this regard? NO2185E
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE (for The MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION): Hon Chair to the hon member, thanks for the question. The answer to your question is, yes. The Centre for Public Service Innovation, CPSI, has a large repository of innovative technical interventions to ensure service delivery improvement in accordance with the National Development Plan. These technical interventions are mostly discovered through the CPSI Public Sector Innovation Awards and also sourced from other collaborative platforms such as Open Nine Solution Exchange of the Innovation Hub, the Gauteng Accelerator Programme competitions, the UN Public Administration Network portal and the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, OECD, observatory of Public Sector Innovation.
Currently pilot projects are running or being concluded with the following departments: Gauteng department of health, department of basic education and department of community safety, Eastern Cape department of education, National Department of Water and Sanitation and Environmental Affairs, and SA Police Services, SAPS. In provinces it will be Gauteng, Eastern Cape, North West, Northern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal and the Western Cape. Thank you.
Ms B P MABE: Hon Chair to the hon Minister, thank you for your response. Could the Minister tell us about the Department of Public Service and Administration’s role in ensuring that the innovation from CPSI is rolled out successfully in all spheres of government?
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE (for The MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION): Hon member, as you know that government is committed to e-government system and the CPSI’s role therefore, in this, is very central. To ensure that we move this beyond being an objective of government, but implement it. But what also becomes important is that CPSI has a role in ensuring that it co-ordinates the work of government particularly in ICT and innovation space. Thank you.
Mr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: House Chairperson to the Minister, you have not referred to the lavish annual innovation awards, there is also the annual public sector conference and the All Africa Public Sector Innovation Awards ceremonies that the CPSI is organising annually. Apart from all these ceremonies, what meaningful contribution has the CPSI made to modernisation of the public service since its inception in 2001? And why for example, is the CPSI not involved in the development of the new software that is meant to replace the Personal and Salary Administration, Persal, System and Basic Accounting System, Bas, software systems which are arguably the most important and expensive innovation of all in the public service? Wouldn’t closing down this ultimately insignificant entity be the most innovative move to make right now? I thank you.
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE (for The MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION): Hon Chair to the hon member, I don’t think that CPSI needs to be closed down. For mere reason that most of the innovative achievements you see in government – in different departments – by and large are sourced from CPSI. The only thing perhaps CPSI should do, is to talk more about what they have done and basically market themselves – whether in the security sector or in the different departments – working with other departments like the Department of Science and Technology within the council of the innovative and science. So, there will be no need. Actually, I think that more than ever before, we need CPSI, but we need it more to say the obvious, espouse what they stand for and enumerate on the achievements which will mainly be claimed by different entities, different agencies and different government departments. Thank you.
Recommendations in National Youth Policy regarding employment tax incentive
124. Dr M J Cardo (DA) asked the Minister in The Presidency:
Whether the National Youth Development draft policy (details furnished) will finally include an expansion of the employment tax incentive or youth wage subsidy as a recommendation following the Government’s conclusion of the examination of its effectiveness in stimulating job creation? NO2190E
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (FOR THE MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY): House Chairperson, yes, the final National Youth Policy does include a section on the youth employment incentive and it is incorporated thereof. The exact text in the final policy reads as follows:
An impact study should be undertaken by the National Treasury, the NYDA and the Economic Development Department to examine the effectiveness of the employment tax incentive in stimulating job creation for first-time job seekers. The scheme should then be refined and ramped up, based on the outcome of the impact study.
Thank you.
Dr M J CARDO: Does the Deputy Minister in the Presidency stand by the statement he made in 2013, in his capacity as National Secretary of the Young Communist League, that he was “firmly opposed to a youth wage subsidy”?
In addition, does he still regard the now-enacted employment tax incentive, as he said in 2013, as “a product of consistent efforts by the Treasury, which has become the harbour of neoliberal ideology in our government”? [Interjections.] [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (FOR THE MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY): Hon House Chairperson, I think if the hon Cardo has a question for the National Secretary of the Young Communist League, he should direct that question to the National Secretary of the Young Communist League. Thank you. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Deputy Minister, the rewrite of the policy, of which all of these is part of 2020 – you have consulted quite broadly and quite widely. The only problem is that, of course, the conference in Johannesburg which was supposed to consolidate the inputs of the youth sectors, by and large, was a disaster. What actions are going to be taken to mitigate that? The agenda which you had proposed and the process you wanted to follow was changed and turned upside down. The question is; have you arrived at a point of the desired outcomes that you had and what steps are you going to take to ensure that the process is actually redeemed and becomes credible following the fiasco witnessed in Johannesburg? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (FOR THE MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY): House Chair, the National Consultative Conference was in no way a disaster. Delegates who were participants at the conference had the right to amend or make proposals on what should be the final programme and we believe that at the end of the day the conference achieved that what it wanted.
We received reports from the Provincial Consultative Conferences, and in the same spirit, we included proposals from the different political parties and organisations into the final policy which we then presented to the Cabinet. So we do not think that the process was derailed. The process was legitimate and we believe that it represented the majority of young people who expressed their views towards the National Youth Policy. So, there is no need for any action whatsoever. Thank you.
Ms R M M LESOMA: Hon Deputy Minister is the youth wage subsidy a government policy? If not, what are other government interventions for youth development in the country? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (FOR THE MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY): The youth wage subsidy is not government policy. Government policy is the youth tax incentive which has been put in place for the last couple of months and as we have said in our original response, we are expecting that an impact assessment will be made to look at whether the youth employment tax incentive has had the desired outcome.
However, government has indicated through, not only the National Youth Policy 2020 but also through the Youth Employment Accord that the youth employment incentive is not the only intervention that government would be implementing. Therefore, a multiplicity of programmes have been put in place and in some of them progress has been made to ensure that we yield employment for young people. I think, in particular, the Presidential Working Group Task Team which comprises of various Deputy Ministers, which will be meeting soon, will also be reviewing whatever exists in terms of government policies and programmes and also proposing on what needs to be done in order to accelerate the implementation of all of those programmes. Thank you.
Mr S C MOTAU: Hon Chair, I did press, I wonder why the thing is still on here. Thank you very much Deputy Minister for your responses especially with reference to the employment tax incentive and the youth wage subsidy. Clearly at this time there is no dispute amongst all of us that youth unemployment is a very serious national crisis or national emergency, depending on who is talking about it. So it is clear that we need to do something very radical about it.
In keeping up with your own party’s push for radically economic transformation we believe that the youth wage subsidy, as it has been promoted by the DA and recommended to the government for implementation, would probably be much better than the incentive scheme because by definition the incentive scheme’s focus is on those people who provide work – the taxpayers but the subsidy focuses on the job seeker – the people who are looking for employment. So, what we are really asking is whether the Minister would push for a youth wage subsidy so that we can beat this monster that is probably threatening our economy more than anything, which is the high youth unemployment to which the Deputy Minister himself has referred. Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY (FOR THE MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY): I think I would advice hon Motau to see the relevant people so that they check his thing if it is not working. You don’t know how worse it can get. However, as have already said that upon assessment of the implementation of the youth employment incentive we will obviously look at whether it is successful, has it failed? If not, what are the things that need to be done in order to modify it, in order to revamp it and all of that?
However, I think that what is important and critical for us is that it is not the panacea, it is not the one solution towards youth unemployment and that is why we have put in place a multiplicity of interventions to ensure that we deal with youth unemployment. We agree, and that is what young people told us when we went on the consultative process on the National Youth Policy 2020, that the biggest problems that they think government should be focusing on is youth employment, support for youth entrepreneurship, education and skills development. Those are the things that the National Youth Policy 2020 has focused on. We have been open and listened to all the submissions that have been made in relation to taking forward all of these policies.
We are quite grateful to hear that you are committed towards making a contribution so that we are able to deal with youth unemployment. We think that we can go a long way if we all work together without cheap politicking in dealing with the crises of youth unemployment. Thank you
Plan regarding phasing in of Public Administration Management Act
116. Ms R M M Lesoma (ANC) asked the Minister of Public Service and Administration:
What is his department’s plan with regard to phasing in the Public Administration Management Act, Act 11 of 2014, which was assented to and signed by the President on 19 December 2014, as entities such as the Public Service Commission rely on the specified Act to vigorously monitor local government with the intention of creating a professional Public Service? NO2182E
The ACTING MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Hon House Chair, section 20 of the Public Administration Management Act, Act 11 of 2014 provides that different dates may be determined in respect of different provisions of the Act or categories of institutions.
This allows the President to bring different sections of the Act into operation at different times or to target categories of institutions based on operational readiness.
An analysis of the Act was undertaken to determine exactly, firstly, which provisions require regulations and, secondly, which provisions also require regulations for purposes of bringing this provisions into force. The research indicated that most of the provisions will require regulations before bringing this into force and effect.
This, therefore, requires that regulations be developed before the provisions are brought into operation. To ensure an orderly rolling out of different provisions of the Act across the Department of Public Service and Administration, an incremental approach to the development and promulgation of the regulations will be adopted.
In line with the provision of targeting categories of institutions, the first set of regulations will be aimed at institutions in the public service. In this respect, the Department of Public Service and Administration is in the process of developing the working draft regulations with a view to broader consultation within administration.
The next set of regulations will target municipalities. It should be noted that regulations covering municipalities must be done with the agreement of the Ministers for Local Government, Finance and of Public Service and Administration. The SA Local Government Association, Salga’s, concurrence will also be required in this instance. Thank you.
Ms R M M LESOMA: Hon House Chair, through you to the hon Minister: Does then the principal driver, which is the Department of Public Service and Administration, have the appropriate information and communications technology, ICT, capacity to monitor its implementation when all is well and done?
The ACTING MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Yes, hon member and hon Chair, the e-government strategy which was introduced by the Department of Public Service and Administration speaks to the monitoring and implementation of this Act and that will be done through Gtalk. That process has already started because in the provinces they are also ready for the engagement and the implementation. So, its roll-out and monitoring will be an ongoing programme. Thank you.
Mr A P VAN DER WESTHUIZEN: Hon House Chair, through you to the Minister: The Public Administration Management Act will put further emphasis on the work of the Public Service Commission. Yet the commission’s position of chairperson has been vacant for more than six months, and the process for Parliament to approve of a new chairperson has apparently been stalled by processes outside of Parliament.
When I asked whether it is Luthuli House that we are waiting for to determine who the next chairperson must be, it was – I must state for the record – vehemently denied by the members of the committee. [Interjections.] As the Minister responsible for the Public Service Commission as well, have you done anything from your side to ensure the speedy appointment of a new chairperson for the Public Service Commission? I thank you.
The ACTING MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: The member is so creative; he is asking a new question very well. I give him full marks for that. But, that question is coming; we are still going to be with the member here and we will get to it. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you hon Minister. The next follow-up question is to be asked by hon Nqweniso. Oh, it is the new member. He doesn’t have an instrument yet.
Mr N M PAULSEN: Hon House Chair, can the Minister provide us with the number of state employees who are still directors of public and private companies conducting business with the state? Can the Minister also tell us how he is planning to eradicate this as required by the Public Administration Management Act, Act 11 of 2014? And, what will the penalty be for public servants found to be involved in this practice. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Thank you, hon member. Hon Minister, there are a lot of figures that have been requested from you; I am not sure if you have that available. You may respond.
The ACTING MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: No, the hon member is making his maiden speech and also asking a question. So, we should be kind to him and tell him nicely that it is a new question. We can answer it some other time, but for now we won’t answer it because it is a new question. [Interjections.] Thank you.
Mr S N SWART: Hon House Chairperson, through you to the Minister: One of the positive provisions in this Act relates to Public Servants doing business with the state and, in fact, bans that practice. Now, as you indicated, before this Act can be phased in, accented to and assigned to, there are regulations required. But surely when it comes to that provision, regulations aren’t required and one could hopefully expect that that provision banning Public Servants doing business with the state can be implemented without further delay. Thank you.
The ACTING MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Well, you would know, hon member; thanks for recognising that. In fact, there are many other aspects of the Public Administration Management Act which are positive. One of those is to integrate almost all other principal Acts into one as a uniform Act consolidated in the Public Administration Management Act.
We will encourage that, hon member, really, because over a period of time it has been discovered that if there is anything which illegitimises the state, it is precisely the fact that people work within the state and throw what is called a javelin and immediately catch it on the other side. This is meant to address precisely that and it should be acknowledged and supported by everybody. Thank you.
Progress made in development of gender-responsive budgeting
110. Ms P Bhengu (ANC) asked the Minister of Women in The Presidency:
- What progress has been made by her department to develop gender-responsive budgeting;
(2) how will her department ensure that gender-responsive budgeting is implemented by government departments? NO2176E
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon Chairperson, to the question asked by hon Bhengu, currently the department is in the process of developing gender-responsive budgeting framework which will guide various departments in government. But also which intends to ensure that departments are able to budget and mainstream gender-issues properly. Our intensions is to ensure that as we mainstream all government departments in their planning and their budget estimates processes indeed they are responding to this particular framework. Thank you
Ms P BHENGU: Mhlonishwa [hon Minister.], arising from your answer, by when will this process of developing the gender-responsive budgeting framework be finalised and what would it entail? Secondly, has any thought been given to how the implementation of the framework will be enforced? Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo. [Thank you, Chair.]
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon member, as you know, we have gone through the process of restructuring the department but also making sure that we are able to attract and recruit requisite skills in the department to ensure that our objectives are being properly met. We hope that if everything goes well and according to our timeline, by next year around this time the gender-responsive budgeting process will have gone through various due processes and we will be having a framework which will allow us to implement this policy.
Coming to the issue of, what are our intentions? We think that this will assist us in making sure that various government departments are able to prioritise their budgets and making sure that mainstreaming becomes a priority.
Coming to the last question asked on how it is going to be done? We intend to collaborate with various government departments, the Department of Performance Monitoring and Evaluation, the National Treasury – we think is an important stakeholder – and the Department of Public Service and Administration. These are the relevant institutions which we have to work with in making sure that our alignment, when it comes to this, does happen. We will be able to enforce this through our section or our branch which is monitoring and evaluating this particular process. So, we think within a year, we will be able to come to this House confidently and say we have a framework which is enforceable. Thank you.
Mr M S MBATHA: Hon Chair, on a point of order.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Yes hon member, what is your point of order?
Mr M S MBATHA: Yes Chair, my point of order is: I am made to understand that we are not supposed to eat in the House, but hon Dlamini is having sparletta or something. [Laughter.] Hon Dlamini is having sparletta!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order hon members! Who is the hon Dlamini?
Mr M S MBATHA: Hon Chair, hon Dlamini is the the Minister of Social Development.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): The reason I asked is because there are many Dlaminis in this House. So, I did not know who you are referring to.
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Hon Chairperson, it is Med-Lemon. [Laughter.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Thank you, hon Minister. The hon Minister is taking medication. [Laughter.] Thank you, can we proceed. Order, hon members! Can we allow the hon Van Der Merwe to ask her question to the Minister of Women in the Presidency?
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Hon Chairperson, through you to the Minister, I think you have outlined some good initiatives, but I think your initiatives will only succeed if there is real political will to see South Africa move away from a gender-blind budget towards a more gender-responsive budget. My question therefore to you is, do you believe there is a real political will amongst your Cabinet colleagues to ensure that the government’s budget meets the specific needs of women and girls? And finally how to you envisage changing the mindset of your colleagues, especially those in Treasury, in terms of the need for a gender-responsive budgeting as a permanent feature in their planning processes as opposed to once–off initiatives?
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, just to say that when you talk about a political will, I think it starts with me. That is the first political will, and I am saying and assuring this House that we are going to make it. We will make sure that gender-responsive budgeting happens in this country.
Secondly, when you talk about Treasury, my colleague here I think has the full authority of ensuring that this does happen. It is not only about Treasury who, together with his deputy, are the only political leaders in that area and the rest are technocrats. When we make policies as government with an intention of addressing issues of our people, especially matters that are affecting women, we cannot be subjected to people who refuse to change attitudes, but also who take us back. So, we will come up with policies which all of us here will have to make sure that indeed matters affecting women in our country, including monetary matters, are carried forward. Whether people want it or not, there is no turning back we are moving forward.
Ms C N MAJEKE: Hon Chair, to the hon Minister, does your budget take into cognisant the recurring challenges confronting the rural women with regard to, amongst others, access to departmental information and programmes, as well as programmes run by institutions that are working together with the department in the struggle for women emancipation and development? Please indicate by making some examples. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon Chair, hon Majeke, what you are looking for is a detail that is supposed to be a new question. But just to indicate that the plight of women, both urban and rural, might differ in extent but is the same. Therefore, even rural women are a priority for us. The current budget that we have I have to acknowledge is not enough. But for us to be able to get appropriate budget within the constrains we have as government, we also have to make sure that we put forward recommendations and reasons for why we need more budget to meet our targets and our objectives.
So, that is one of the issues as we restructure this department, and identifying priorities in changing the lives of all women in South Africa where we will be able to show to Treasury that there is a need for us to get more budget. And part of that is the issue of making sure that budgetary matters, when it comes to women, are not just the territory of the Department of Women in the Presidency, but it becomes the responsibility of all departments. That is one of the roles we are going to play in making sure that no department is left untouched thinking that women are not a priority or a responsibility for ... When we talk about mainstreaming, every department and every section of our community must make sure that women become the priority. Stakeholders like the various civil societies we are engaging with are very, very critical in making sure that also those institutions respond to matters of the women both urban and rural. Thank you, Chair.
Ms E N LOUW: Hon Chair to hon Minister, why is your department not providing women with sanitary towels especially in rural areas? Young girls get to school late because of challenges they face regarding issues of sanitary towels and this also has a negative impact on their self-esteem and confidence. Over and above these, poor women reproductive health is also compromised due to lack of support from your government. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon Chair, to hon Louw, each time you raise a question as the EFF in this House, it is about sanitary towels. [Interjections.] Can I just help you? It cannot be your question everyday. When you look at the various partnerships and private sectors, including the Department of Social Development and the Department of Basic Education, they are providing those particular facilities. Why should we all do one thing? Why should all of us provide the same thing as if all of us do not know what we are doing? We do not need duplication. We have a shared responsibility. I am part of this government and not an island. So, that is what you have to understand. This is a government which shares its budgets and responsibilities. When social development does a particular programme, I take responsibility and claim that space. When the Department of Basic Education ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order hon members, let us allow the hon Minister to finish.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: When the Department of Basic Education does that it includes us. So, if the EFF is so paranoid and obsessed they must tell us. They must tell us what their contribution to the society is when they are here. I thank you.
Review of division of revenue to ensure more equitable distribution to local government
130. Mr K J Mileham (DA) asked the Minister of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs:
Whether he will lobby for a review of the division of revenue to ensure a more equitable distribution to local government; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? NO2196E
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (Mr A C Nel): Chairperson, the hon Mileham asks whether we will lobby for an increase in the local government equitable share. A new formula for the local government equitable share was introduced in 2013-14, following a review of the previous formula by the National Treasury, the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs and the SA Local Government Association, Salga, in partnership with the Financial and Fiscal Commission and Statistics South Africa. The new formula was based on data from the 2011 census which resulted in major changes to some allocations. As a result, new allocations are being phased-in over a five-year period ending in 2017-18.
The national share of revenue allocated to local government through the equitable share is determined in the national budget process and endorsed by Cabinet, the so-called vertical division. The local government equitable share is divided among the country’s 278 municipalities using a formula to ensure objectivity.
Now, whilst we certainly do, at every available opportunity, argue for a greater share in national revenue for local government, exactly because local government is that sphere of government that is closest to the people and that is most directly involved in basic service delivery. We also need to recognise that in doing so, if we argue that local government should get more, the question that we were asked is: Where must that come from? Must that come from national government or must that come from provincial government? I think certainly there’s a debate and a discussion to be had on that. At the same time we need to be focused on, in line with our Back to Basics approach to make our municipalities more viable, enabling our municipalities to raise greater levels of revenue within the existing constitutional framework. That will allow them to raise that revenue from property and the sale of services, etc.
Secondly, we need to look at, and we are looking very seriously at, the configuration of our municipal space. We are 15 years into democratic local government and we’re asking the question whether certain of our municipalities are viable, financially and economically. We have asked the Municipal Demarcation Board to engage in an objective and scientific process of investigating that matter and we hope that by the beginning of the year they will come back to us on that.
The HOUSE CHAIPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Minister, your time is up for this one. I’m sure on the follow-up from hon Mileham; you can assist to complete those issues.
Mr K J MILEHAM: House Chair, Deputy Minister, thank you for your response. The SA Local Government Association has indicated that the equitable share provision for the supply of free basic services is underfunded by R3,56 billion for electricity and R638 million for water. If National Treasury is not prepared to provide more funds to local government, then how will you ensure that struggling municipalities have the funds to deliver basic services to the poorest of the poor?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (Mr A C Nel): Hon member, as we were saying, we are engaging with National Treasury and Salga in looking at the funding model for local government. The reality is that those resources must come from somewhere. It’s not a question of standing up and saying: Will I lobby the hon member who is sitting in the bench in front of me? When I go to do so, I need to do it on the basis of a comprehensive, viable and sustainable plan. So it’s not just a question of asking for more money; it’s also asking the question where that money is going to come from; and also asking the question whether we’re making the best use of the resources that we have at our disposal at the moment.
That process is under way and it involves the Department of Co-Operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Salga and National Treasury to look at the funding model for local government. I can also say that with regard to the infrastructure grants review, the local government infrastructure grants system is being reviewed to improve the efficiency and the effectiveness of infrastructure grants to municipalities and National Treasury is leading that review in collaboration with the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation, the Financial Fiscal Commission and Salga. Thank you.
Mrs D ROBINSON: I was trying to attract your attention for a previous question, but it has just continued; so, I’m sad.
The HOUSE CHAIPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Thank you. Unfortunately, it didn’t come up on the board. Hon Hlengwa.
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon House Chair, hon Deputy Minister, the issue of funding remains a major problem for municipalities; and one of the arguments, of course, is that all development is local. And I think you also made that point as well to the portfolio committee last year and funds must follow function. The question is then: What role is the department playing to ensure that government departments, whether it be at the national level or provincial level, are actually seeing through commitments that they’re making? Because at times municipalities find themselves having to mitigate some of the costs which were supposed to have been shouldered by other departments because the ongoing mentality in government is that municipalities are a junior partner of government and nobody sees them as an equal. We need to ensure that we arrive at a point that funds transcend right down to municipalities. That’s where development is taking place. Therefore, we can’t say there’s no money; money is there, but it is not being channelled to where it is supposed to be. The funds-follow-principle approach is not being adhered to. Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (Mr A C Nel): Chair, I think the hon Hlengwa raises a very important area, which we are ceased with. The issue that he raises is that, in our system we have three spheres of government: National, provincial and local. That each is assigned different functions, responsibility and allocated resources. At the end of the day, all national programmes impact in one way or another on local government; even where they are so-called exclusive national functions.
If you put a military base somewhere in the country, that military base is in a municipality. If you build a hospital somewhere, you are building that hospital in a municipality. If you are building a school; you build it ina municipality. For that reason we argue very strongly through the interministerial task team on basic service delivery, which is headed by Minister Gordhan, that we need to streamline national and provincial service delivery value chains and root them solidly within municipal Integrated Development Plans, IDPs.
In many cases that is happening where that is happening it functions very well and you have a seamless flow of funds and functionalities across the spheres into the municipal space. Where it doesn’t happen, it causes huge disruption and problems. Those are the things that we are working with national government, provinces and local government to streamline. Thank you.
Mr B M BHANGA: Chair, Minister, noting that the Auditor-General today announced fruitless and wasteful expenditure in municipalities amounted to R687 million in the last financial year meaning even less money for service delivery. The Minister, can he give any examples of where his department has aggressively pursuit criminal charges against officials who have looted, stolen, eaten, “chawed” [to eat] reap and all the things that you are popular with as the ANC in municipal coffers. Thank you very much.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (Mr A C Nel): Chairperson, I would appeal to the hon Bhanga, in fact, all members of this House that let’s be serious. Let’s be serious about local government because ... [Interjections.] No, hon Bhanga the term of that question doesn’t display any seriousness whatsoever. The reality is that the Auditor-General today comes, presents a consolidated report, every single indicator in that report points to improvements in the financial management of local government.
Of the 335 municipalities and municipal entities, 102 improved. They might have improved of a low base, but they are improving. The direction of change is clear. With regard to irregular expenditure, the number of auditees that were qualified for irregular expenditure decreased from 100 last year to 74 this year. We agree with you that the quantum of irregular expenditure remains unacceptable high, but the fact of the matter is that things are improving. We are working tirelessly together with our provinces, together with our municipalities, together with the Auditor-General and together with the National Treasury to deal with those matters and those efforts are yielding results.
For the hon Bhanga to come and stand up here and say that the Auditor-General indicates X amounts a fruitless expenditure and then say that tantamount to looting and stealing. I mean that is a complete distortion of what fruitless expenditure means. Fruitless and wasteful expenditure by the way, hon Bhanga, is huge either do know or should know does not mean that no value was received for that money and then any auditor will tell you that. It’s not acceptable, it’s not good and it’s something that we are working to solve and that we are solving. However, don’t come and stand here and make cheap propaganda with things that affect the lives of our people. [Applause.]
Ms Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANA: Hon House Chair, hon Deputy Minister, we do understand that there are discussions between the department and the National Treasury regarding the funding model. However, we would love to know as to whether it is possible to implement by 2016-17 financial year. I thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS (Mr A C Nel): Thank you very much. I think the issue of a municipal funding model is not something that we are going to do overnight. It’s an extremely complex issue and it’s going to take time. Good progress has been made; I think the National Treasury has completed the first phase of that review process. However, there’s still a substantial amount of work that’s going to have to go into that. I wouldn’t want to commit myself to any specified date.
Chair, I could just make use of the time that I have to continue responding to the previous question. Reality is yes, we are taking very firm action against those who are misbehaving in local government. We have attained the forensic reports for the past five years. We’ve analysed those reports. We’ve wrote in our law enforcement agencies and the state attorney to see where we can prosecute but also where we can engage in civil recoveries for amounts of money that have been stolen or being misused. Also in an effort to tighten up controls at local government level we’ve enforced minimum standards for senior mangers in local government. We are making sure that those who don’t comply with those minimum standards do so. But equally, we are taking action where municipalities have appointed people wrongly and I think there are five cases before our courts at the moment where member of the executive council, MECs, have gone to courts seeking the clarity or those to remove wrongly appointed senior officials.
Also, we have made an appeal to all political parties across the spectrum to take action in municipalities where their members are not living up to what is expected of them. In the past couple of weeks, we have seen a number of parties responding very vigorously on that front. Thank you.
Ms E N LOUW: Chairperson, on a point of order: I just like to check with you if it is parliamentary for a member of the ANC to ask such empty vesselled questions to Minister.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): That is not a point of order, hon Louw. Can we now move to Question 136; a question which has been asked to the Minister of Public Service and Administration by hon Nqweniso? Question 136 from hon Nqweniso. You did? Let me just check with the National Assembly Table. Hon Minister, I’ve just been clarified by the Table that these are two questions, one relates to the specific technical intervention proposed or such as that. Sorry, it deals with the details of the wage agreement and the second one is about how the Minister reconciles the 5% increase received by public office bearers.
Position regarding reconciliation of 5% increase received by public office bearers
136. Ms N V Nqweniso (EFF) asked the Minister of Public Service and Administration:
- How does he reconcile the 5% salary increase received by public office bearers who earn more than a million rand annually with additional perks and benefits while the Public Service that negotiated for a 15% wage increase, a R3 000 housing allowance and 28% medical aid benefits were only offered a 7% wage increase and a R1 200 housing allowance;
(2) whether he has found that the settlement for the public servants who do not have lucrative employment benefits is justified, in light of the material benefits of public office bearers as specified in the Ministerial Handbook; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what are the relevant details? NO2203E
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Question 136 was asked by hon Nqweniso.
The ACTING MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: It has been answered.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): You did? Let me just check with the National Assembly Table. Hon Minister, the Table has just clarified that these are two questions. One relates to the specific technical intervention proposal suggested. Sorry, it deals with the details of the wage agreement. The second one is about how the Minister reconciled the 5% increase received by public office bearers.
The ACTING MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Hon House Chair, we answered this question. I can just confirm what we said.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon Minister, you can confirm, or I can ask supplementary questions.
The ACTING MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Let’s see a supplementary question, or else I can repeat myself.
Ms N V NQWENISO: Let me assist you, hon Minister. Let me simplify this question.
An HON MEMBER: Acting Minister!
Ms N V NQWENISO: The simplicity of this question is this ... Wait! Listen! The simplicity of this question is this: Do you justify the 7% you are giving the public servants? How? I will provide an example. A level-5 constable of Woodstock Police Station who cannot afford to pay rent at a decent place had to live in an informal settlement somewhere in Khayelitsha where one day three months ago his house was burgled or, in fact, robbed, his pistol was taken from him at gunpoint, and he had to watch his wife being gang-raped by three men. It is because then R900 was not sufficient. Now, it is R1 200. Do you think there is a bank that would give that man a bond for R1 200?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon Nqweniso, I think you have clarified your question. Hon Minister?
The ACTING MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Chairperson, I think I should thank the member for her simplicity and say that there are negotiations between organised labour and government.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon Louw and the other member from the ANC! Please do not share exchanges across the floor. Allow the Minister to respond.
The ACTING MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: These negotiations are based on what organised labour would have raised as their demands and what government would have budgeted for the next round of negotiations. The negotiations are handled in that way. It is not anybody’s whims in terms of what to do and how to do it. It depends on what is available in the fiscus, how the negotiations go. I thought that would be important.
As I said, House Chair, it is a question that has been asked. This is how negotiations are conducted. Many factors are taken into account. We are talking about the cost-of-living adjustment, totally separate from many other things that form part of the negotiations, that are part and parcel of what workers would have demanded. That includes housing; that would include the health issues, and all those things. That package talks to the wage bill, which some of the members have raised here, and the challenges that government and the world are facing with the economic crisis we are faced with.
So, it is not really any other thing. It is what we have said. Even next time, the same time will happen. I thank the member for her simplicity, Chair.
Mr J J McGLUWA: House Chair, earlier with the previous Chairperson, I requested that the Minister should use his earpiece if I have the opportunity to address him. [Laughter.] I want to speak ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): You can speak from the microphone. If I hear you, I am sure the Minister will hear you too.
Mr J J McGLUWA: Voorsitter, ons het vroeër gepraat oor die publieke administrasie, en ons kan nie bekostig ... [Tussenwerpsels.] [Chairperson, earlier on we referred to public administration, and we cannot afford ... [Interjections.]]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon members! Hon Minister, please use your earpiece.
Mnr J J McGLUWA: Ons het vroeër gepraat, Minister, oor die publieke administrasie en ons, as ’n Parlement, kan nie bekostig om geld te leen om salarisse te betaal nie. Minister, wanneer hierdie vraag gevra word in die Parlement, moet ons as Parlement ook ons hand in eie boesem steek. Baie belangrik is die volgende: Hierdie Parlement sit op ’n tydbom. Ons het 67 Ministers, en hierdie land spandeer R974 miljard op Ministers en Adjunkministers. En wat ons kry ... stem u saam, Minister, dat ons geld moet bespaar, die ministeriële handboek moet hersien en dat ons ook miskien van die Adjunkministers Parlementslede moet maak? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Mr J J McGLUWA: Earlier on we referred to public administration, Minister, and we, as a Parliament, cannot afford to borrow money in order to pay salaries. Minister, when this question is put in Parliament, we as a Parliament should examine our own conscience. The following is very important: this Parliament is sitting on a time bomb. We have 67 Ministers, and this country spends R974 billion on Ministers and Deputy Ministers. And what do we get ... do you agree, Minister, that we have to save money, revise the ministerial handbook and that we perhaps should make the Deputy Ministers Members of Parliament.]
USIHLALO WENDLU (Nksz A T Didiza): Ungaphendula Ngqongqoshe.
IBAMBA LIKANGQONGQOSHE WEMISEBENZI NOKUPHATHWA KWAYO: Ngiyalizwa leli lungu elihloniphekile lePhalamende. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): You may respond Minister.
The ACTING MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: I hear this hon member of Parliament.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon McGluwa, you can also use your earpiece and so too can other members who need interpreting from IsiZulu.
Ungaqhubeka–ke Ngqongqoshe.
IBAMBA LIKANGQONGQOSHE WEMISEBENZI NOKUPHATHWA KWAYO: Ilungu leli elihloniphekile libuza umbuzo eliyaziyo impendula yawo. Into eliyibuzayo ukuthi: Singakwazi yini ukuthi siphile ngokuthi sibolekele ukukhokhela amaholo? Uzokwazi ngokwezomnotho ukuthi into enjengaleyo ayikwazi ukuthi yenzeke kube ngunaphakade. Awukwazi ukuyenza leyo nto. Yingakho sigcizelela ukuthi abantu kumele bazi ukuthi uma uboleka kufanele uboleke la uzokwazi ukutshala khona kumbe uzolondoloza khona kunoma ubolekele amaholo. Yiyo le nto ebesiyisho sonke lesi sikhathi sikhuluma. Liyawuthanda-ke lo mbuzo leli lungu lePhalamende. Like lathi sixoxa laphaya, lawuphinda futhi lo mbuzo. Cha nakusasa sisazobuye siphendule nje ngendlela efanayo, lungu elihloniphekile. Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.]
USIHLALO WENDLU (Nksz A T Didiza): Ilungu elihloniphekile umhlonishwa uNqweniso. Ngiphinda ngiyakubona la, angazi noma usafuna yini ukuphinda ubuze omunye umbuzo. Kulungile-ke lungu elihloniphekile. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[You may proceed then, Minister.
The ACTING MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: The hon member is asking a question to which he already knows the answer to. What he is asking is: can we live by borrowing in order to be able to pay salaries? He should know that according to economics such cannot happen forever. You cannot do that. That is why we emphasise that when people borrow they should borrow from places where they are able to invest or save rather than to borrow for salaries. That is what we’ve been saying all along. This hon member likes this question. While we were talking over there, he asked this question. We will still give the same response tomorrow, hon member. Thank you. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): The hon member Nqweniso. I see your name here again, I’m not sure if you still want to ask another question. It’s fine then, hon member.]
Ms N V NQWENISO: Chairperson, through you to the Minister: I want to ask the Minister a simple question. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order! Let’s allow the member to ask her question.
Ms N V NQWENISO: What is happening to the proposed government employees housing scheme that is supposed to house the public servants? Thank you.
IBAMBA LIKANGQONGQOSHE WEMISEBENZI NOKUPHATHWA KWAYO: Hhayi, nami Sihlalo weNdlu ngizomphendula nje ngendlela elula nangale ndlela abuze ngayo. Isivumelwano lesi esikhuluma ngaso, siye sayikhuphula imali yezindlu zomxhaso kubasebenzi bakahulumeni le ayishoyo. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[The ACTING MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Well, Chairperson of the House I will respond in a simple manner and in the manner in which she posed the question. The agreement that we are talking about, increased the money for housing subsidies of government employees.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon members! Let’s allow the Minister to conclude his answer.
IBAMBA LIKANGQONGQOSHE WEMISEBENZI NOKUPHATHWA KWAYO: Imali ebikade beyithola ibingama-R900 manje isiyi-R1200. Ngakho-ke yiyo indlela elula esiliphendula ngayo ilungu leli elihloniphekile.
USIHLALO WENDLU (Nksz A T Didiza): Ngiyabonga Ngqongqoshe, kungabe ukhona yini oyedwa owokugcina ofuna ukuthi alandelise kulo mbuzo achibiyele ngeyakhe indlela? Ngiyabonga angiboni sandla futhi angiboni lutho lapha ebhodini lami. Singaqhubeka nombuzo engethemba ukuthi usuzoba ngowokugcina Umbuzo we-112 obuzwe ngumama uMemela kuNgqongqoshe omele aBesifazane ehhovisi likaMongameli. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[The ACTING MINISTER OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: They used to receive R900 now it’s R 1200. Therefore this is the simplest way in which we respond to the hon member.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Thank you Minister, is there anyone who would like to ask any further question amending it in a different manner? Thank you, I see no hands and I see nothing on my board. We may proceed to the next question which I believe will be the final question, Question number 112 which was asked by Ma’am Memela to the Minister of Women in the Presidency.]
Measures to ensure gender focal points within decision-making positions
112. Ms T C Memela (ANC) asked the Minister of Women in The Presidency:
(1) What measures has her department proposed to ensure that all departments have gender focal points located within decision-making positions;
(2) how will her department ensure enforcement in this regard? NO2178E
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Impendulo yalo mbuzo obuziwe la ithi: [The answer to this question is:]
We do have a framework and mechanisms for gender mainstreaming which had prevailed in the past 20 years. Right now we are reviewing all these mechanisms which where created and used in the past, in making sure that we can implement those policies on gender focal points.
One of the key issues which we have to stress on is that monitoring and evaluation once more play a critical role in ensuring that gender focal points are being implemented, but not only that, in making sure whatever there are gaps, we assess them and identify them to ensure that as government, including the private sector, we can advance this particular aspect of gender matters. Thank you, Chair.
Ms T C MEMELA: House Chair, as a follow-up question: When will the review of gender mainstreaming framework be finalised? And what would it entail? Has any thought being given to how the implementation of the revised framework would be enforced, especially with regard to gender focal points? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon Chairperson, let me just say that we had already started engaging or consulting with other government departments in ensuring that we can take this review forward, towards its finalisation and its implementation. Some of the issues which are critical for us currently ... [Interjections.] [Laughter.]
Uzowathini amakhehla athanda ukubanga umsindo ... [What would you do with old men who like to make a noise ...]
As a department, we want to make sure that this process is not just a process, but it can also be implementable in a way that takes us forward.
One of the views which we think are important is to make sure that each department must have a gender focal points unit, but not only that but they must be allocated or Directors-General must be able to take responsibility in ensuring that we able to meet our objectives. We also believe that it is very important that government senior officials at various levels get trained around this particular aspect because it’s not everyone or every official who understands when we talk about gender mainstreaming.
We think training becomes very critical if this policy is to be successful. Where we are currently, the challenge is that departments implement in their own ways, how they think things needs to be done, without clear guidelines. So, that is why we are reviewing and putting in place mechanisms which will be more effective.
Engathi angathula amakhehla, uyazi! [I wish that old men can keep quiet, you know!]
Mr M L D NTOMBELA: Chairperson, I was supposed to have talked on the previous question, so it has been exhausted. Thank you.
Mrs L L VAN DER MERWE: House Chairperson, through you to the Minister: Will this review also include a review of gender focal points at municipalities? Because I think it is at local level where women need assistance the most, and I think it’s at local level where gender focal points are not properly implemented or accessible. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, when it comes to the review, the review will be holistic, that will include all spheres of government because it is important as you raised the issue of municipalities, we have to review that. But the biggest challenge we have currently is that there is no clear mechanism which has been put in place when it comes to municipalities.
So, our framework intends to identify and make sure that there is proper alignment as well as proper accountability because one of the weaknesses is that there is no accountability and we want to create a framework which will ensure that the structures which need to be there are very tight.
As a department, one of the issues we’ve raised is that we will not be able to monitor, but as we know that departments are part of the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, the mechanisms need to strengthen the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs in ensuring that, as they do their oversight and their responsibility that particular sphere can be accountable from the municipalities in various areas. Thank you.
Ms N I TARABELLA MARCHESI: Minister, our Constitution is very clear on how and why the country needs to do everything possible to pursue the goal of gender equality. Moreover your own Freedom Charter speaks about men and women receiving equal pay for equal work but you are failing to make this happen.
For instance the SA Football Association sees it fit to pay Banyana Banyana players R5 000 per match but pays Bafana Bafana R60 000 per match. What interventions, Minister, are you going to put in place to ensure that gender discrimination by SAFA against Banyana Banyana seizes to exist?
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZABESIFAZANE EHHOVISI LIKAMONGAMELI: Sihlalo engingakusho kumhlonishwa uMarchesi ukuthi uma ubheka ibhola lezinyawo ukuthi lisuka kuphi uzobona ukuthi abantu besifazane bebengekho.
Okwesibili, namhlanje ukubonakalisa ukuthi kule minyaka engamashumi amabili enkululeko lapha eNingizimu Afrika nabantu besifazane, sebeyakwazi ukuba noBanyana Banyana badlale ibhola lezinyawo. Ngivumelana nawe ekutheni uma kuza ekukhokhelweni kwabo, akukalingani. Lokhu kungezinye zezinto ezingabhekene nami kuphela, kepha nawe futhi. Umbuzo uthi: Wenzani lapho uhlala khona wena ukuze ibhola liqale khona ezinganeni zamantombazane ezincane uma zidlala zikwazi ukuba ziphathwe ngendlela elinganayo? Awukwazi ulokho uthi wena, wena, wena; wena wenzani? Uyabona le emine ikhomba wena ithi wena wenzani lapho uhlala khona. [Ubuwelewele.] Lena ithi wena wenzani? Mea culpa! Mea culpa! (Yicala lami! Yicala lami!) (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: What I can say to hon Marchesi, hon Chair, is that when you look at where football is coming from, you will realise that women were not part of it.
Secondly, today in the 20 years of freedom in South Africa, it shows that even women are able to have their team Banyana Banyana and play football. I concur with you when it comes to their remuneration, there’s no parity. This is one of the issues that are not my concern only, but it also concerns you. The question is: What are you doing where you are staying to enable girl children to start playing football at their age and to be treated equitably once they play? You cannot always point fingers at others, what are you doing about it? You see these four fingers are pointing at you asking you what about what you are doing where you are staying. [Interjections.] These are saying what are you doing? Mea culpa! Mea culpa! (Through my fault! Through my fault!).]
See also QUESTIONS AND REPLIES.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon members, last week there were matters that arose in the debate and we indicated that we were going to rule on those matters. As members know, rulings are given when members are in the House. On the matter that was raised by the hon Majake ... Is the hon Majake here? She is not. On the matter that was raised in the Extended Public Committee when the Chairperson was the hon Mashile, we do have a ruling on that matter. Unfortunately, we cannot give it because the hon member is not in the House.
UNPARLIAMENTARY REMARKS REGARDING THE PRESIDENT
(Ruling)
The other matter relates to the issue that was raised by the hon Maxon in the debate of the President. There was no point of order raised. Nonetheless, I have found the remarks that she made to be of such a serious nature that I said to this House that I would study the Hansard and revert to the House with a ruling on the matter. Hon members, I wish to indicate that I have indeed consulted Hansard. The exact words, as they appear in the Hansard, that the hon Maxon said in the debate are, and I quote: “How are we then expected to give more money to a man who cannot be accountable for public funds used in his back yard? You are asking us to promote stealing and greed because the Presidency is a thief of departments. What do you call a man who presides over stealing? A foreman of thieves, an Induna.”
Hon members, freedom of speech is guaranteed in our Constitution and is therefore a critical element of our democracy. However, this is not an absolute right as the Constitution clearly states that this freedom is subject only to the rules and orders that the House imposes on itself.
The House does this solely for the purpose of orderly conduct of proceedings within an open, multiparty and democratic society. Essentially, it is the members themselves who have agreed to the standing rules and orders to which this freedom is subjected. One such Rule is in regard to the use of offensive and unbecoming language. This is a broadly framed rule that allows a presiding officer to take into consideration, among other things, the context and tone of a particular remark or inference.
This is assisted by years of established practice and convention. Part of the established convention and practice in this regard is that members should not impute improper motives, cast aspersions or personal reflections on the integrity of members, or verbally abuse them in any way. If such remarks were to be allowed in the debate, they would not only undermine members in the performance of their duties but they would also undermine the functioning of Parliament itself within its constitutional context.
Furthermore, it has always been ruled in this House that making unsubstantiated allegations against the integrity of any member is unparliamentary, nor may improper or unworthy motives be imputed to any member. Members may therefore not make insinuations or accusations of improper conduct on the part of their fellow members except by way of a properly substantiated motion.
The President, while taking his seat in the Chamber, is covered by the Rules of the Assembly. Therefore, hon Maxon, the remarks that you made clearly refer to the President as having not only promoted theft but as being in charge of thieves. The President has taken an oath to uphold the Constitution and the laws of this country ... [Interjections.] Order, hon members! Order! Can I address the hon Maxon? I am not addressing any other member in this regard.
These remarks are therefore not only unparliamentary but seek to cast serious aspersions on the integrity of the President as the head of state. I therefore ask you to withdraw the reference to the hon President as a foreman of thieves, as you said.
Ms H O MAXON: No problem, Chairperson. But can I just get clarity first?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Okay, what is the clarity you want?
Ms H O MAXON: Is your ruling superseding the court ruling, because there is a court ruling regarding this matter?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon members, we have looked at that ruling, which I am sure refers to the SMS by the DA for which the context was different. Therefore, we have looked at that ruling. In this instance, I have indicated why I am ruling in this way and I am asking you to withdraw.
Ms H O MAXON: No problem, Chair. We are going to withdraw here in the House, but as the EFF we are going to say it outside.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Do so unconditionally, Ma’am.
Ms H O MAXON: I draw.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): That is not ... [Laughter.] Hon Maxon ... Hon Khawula, when such a statement was made in this House from the ANC’s side, when a member used exactly the same phrase: “I draw,” she objected and your member ... [Inaudible.]
Mr A M MATLHOKO: House Chair! House Chair ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon member! Order, hon member! Can I address Maxon? Can you take your seat? Can you take your seat? So, I was just saying: your own member, hon Khawula, did reject to the use of that statement. So I would ask you just to say it properly.
Ms H O MAXON: But, Chair, now you are bringing another matter over another matter. I am saying to you, “I draw.” So, what do you want?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Draw does not mean withdraw. [Interjections.]
Ms H O MAXON: English is not my first language.
Ms E N LOUW: Chair, on a point of order. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order! Order! Hon member Louw, could you please take your seat. Hon Louw, could you please take your seat. [Interjections.]
Ms E N LOUW: ... not fair [Inaudible.] ... because last time ... [Inaudible.] This “draw” is allowed. ... [Inaudible.] It was allowed last time.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon Louw, I am giving a ruling and I am talking to one of your members. Could you please take a seat? Hon Maxon, could you please withdraw unconditionally.
Ms H O MAXON: Chair, I don’t know what you want from me. I have said “I draw.” What do you want, Chair? I draw.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Draw is not withdraw. You said you don’t have a problem and I expect you just to say ... If you want to say it in Xhosa, you can do so.
Ms H O MAXON: Sithini isiXhosa? [What does isiXhosa say?]
I am not a Xhosa person.
USIHLALO WENDLU (Nksz A T Didiza): Khuluma-ke ngesiZulu.
Nksz H O MAXON: Ngithini? Ngithi ngiyadrowa?
USIHLALO WENDLU (Nksz A T Didiza): Ithi uyahoxisa.
Nksz H O MAXON: O! Ngiyahoxisa.
USIHLALO WENDLU (Nksz A T Didiza): Hlala phansi. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Speak in isiZulu then.
Ms H O MAXON: What must I say? Should I say I draw?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Say, I withdraw.
Ms H O MAXON: Ok! I withdraw.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Sit down.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon members, thank you very much. On the matter of the hon Masina ...
Ms E N LOUW: On a point of order, Chair - before we get to that one. No, I want to correct the issue here, Chair. Hon Chair, last time ... and the Table Staff ... You can go and check Hansard. I raised this point of order when an ANC member had to withdraw. The ANC member said, “I draw”. I said: draw does not mean withdraw, and the Chairperson that presided that day said it was allowed. So, now it is a clear indication that the Chairpersons are not consistent in their rulings. You really need to check that, because I remember precisely because I raised that. So, it cannot work like that. You need to check ... [Inaudible.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon member, you can take your seat. Indeed, I will check your statement in the Hansard and I will come back and give clarity.
UNPARLIAMENTARY LANGUAGE BY HON MINISTER MASINA
(Ruling)
There are two matters that relate to the hon Masina. One of the matters relates to the statement made by the hon Masina in the debate on the Presidency on 26 May 2015. A number of points of order were raised in relation to the speech by hon Minister Masina at the time. He said, and I quote: “Our brother from Soweto who always speaks with confidence about everything broken, I can only think about words like Moruti wa tsotsi. I can think about the puppet of the master, the sellout, the traitor, the token, the druglord, the sex pest as reported in the paper, the mouthpiece of monopoly capital and worst of all ... ”
The hon Chief Whip of the opposition rose on a point of order, asking whether such references to another member were in order. National Assembly Rule 63 states that no member shall use offensive or unbecoming language or what is commonly referred to as unparliamentary speech.
This particular Rule is further supported by a standing order that determines that no member shall, by means of unparliamentary language, impinge or reflect on the integrity or character of another member without bringing it to the House in the form of a clearly formulated charge supported by credible evidence. It must also be noted that no member may use unparliamentary language couched as, or disguised in, a quotation or figurative language. What the hon Deputy Minister said, namely: “Our brother from Soweto who speaks with confidence about everything broken” leaves little doubt that the hon Deputy Minister was referring to the Leader of the Opposition.
The terms “puppet of the master”, “sellout”, “traitor”, and so on are all extremely derogatory and therefore unparliamentary. They reflect severely on the character of the Leader of the Opposition. I must therefore ask the Deputy Minister to withdraw the remarks.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: I withdraw, Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Thank you, hon Deputy Minister. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): There is another matter that relates to hon Masina on the point of order that was raised by the hon Steenhuizen.
Prince M G BUTHELEZI: Chairperson, on a point of order: We can’t hear, because our colleagues here are making a noise. We would like to hear your ruling.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon members.
Prince M G BUTHELEZI: How were these people brought up? [Inaudible.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon members. As you know, it is the right of all members and it must be respected in the House. I think the loud manner in which hon members are conversing is actually impinging on the rights of others. Can you please be respectful?
I would like to indicate that there is a matter that was also raised in the debate of the President on 26 May 2015, which relates to a point of order raised by the hon Chief Whip of the Opposition, supported by the other members of the opposition, in particular, hon Kohler-Barnard, which claims that the Deputy Minister had directed a vulgar comment, actually, to be more specific, mouthed vulgar language to the members of the DA.
I indicated in this House, following the matter as it was raised and also what hon Singh raised, in the same vein, that such words could not be allowed in the House and therefore, something must be done.
I asked the Deputy Minister while he was on the podium whether such allegations as referred to by the hon Chief Whip of the DA are what he said and he said no. [Interjections.] Hon members, can we be respectful? You might have views, but we allowed for a particular process in this House. I indicated that I will investigate, because surely, seated where I am sitting, there was no way I could have heard the mouthing.
We did indeed undertake the investigation. We looked at the TV footage of the incident and no such alleged remark was captured. We also went into Hansard. Again, there was no such remark recorded. As indicated, we again asked the Deputy Minister whether such alleged remarks were indeed attributed correctly to him, on which he denied, as he did publically in this House.
As I said, at the time, the Chair cannot be expected to hear every comment made on the floor, especially given the usual noise levels of the House and particularly, when there are many interjections and in addition, when it is said somebody mouthed, because it may not be, loud as it was, captured in the mike.
Parliamentary convention therefore dictates that we accept the word of a hon member and the hon Deputy Minister, when asked, denied making the remark. Soon thereafter, the Chief Whip of the DA retorted, by saying that the Deputy Minister was spineless and a coward. I ruled on the matter, at the time, and indicated that it was unparliamentary, since it too infringe on the integrity of another member.
This approach is consistent with rulings made in previous parliaments. Hon members, when members of the Assembly disagree with a ruling by the Presiding Officer, it does not behove such members to vent their frustration by resorting to unparliamentary language.
This is particularly egregious if it is done by a senior member of the Assembly. I would ask the hon Chief Whip to withdraw the words spineless and coward. Unfortunately, he is not in the room; we will do so when he is present. [Interjections.]
I want to once again indicate that it is important for all of us to apply ourselves in the manner in which we converse with one another, but also to abide by the Rules and conventions of the National Assembly, to allow the House to proceed with its business, with the necessary respect and application. All of us here know that the people of South Africa deserve their issues to be taken seriously and debated in an earnest manner.
We cannot hold substantive debates if proceeding degenerate into personal attacks and insults. If we differ from one another robustly, let us do so, but in a manner befitting the heirs of a hard-won democracy. This brings my ruling to an end on those matters.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: House Chairperson, on a point of clarity: During the said allegation, a number of allegations were made against me, in particular, about statements which are purported to have been made outside of the House by myself, which I am not familiar with. There was said in the House, collaborating, that I have said things that I did not say. I want advice from the Chair as to how I should approach those, because I felt offended by the stance on that matter. Thank you. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon members. The member was addressing the Chair. I have noted the questions for clarity. As the issue was not raised, in response, as a point of order, on the day, I will advise the hon member to approach the Speaker’s Office on that matter. Thank you.
Mr M WATERS: Chairperson, on a point of clarity: I noticed your ruling where you say you are going to ask the hon Chief Whip to withdraw the words coward and spineless. If you are going to do that, with all due respect, to have consistency in this House, you are going to have to ask the entire opposition to do that. When the Deputy Minister continued his speech, every single one of us called him a liar, a coward and spineless.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon member, I said that I will deal with that aspect of the ruling when the said member is in the House. I note your clarity. We will deal with it when hon Steenhuizen is in the House.
Hon members, I will also deal with the matter of hon Majeke, ... Is she here? [Interjections.] I will also deal with her ruling ... Hon members, order please! I don’t like the noise I am hearing on your side. With that reference that you are making now, one cannot say to whom you are attributing it. I have made the rulings. So, can we please be respectful. Your Chief Whip is not in the House to whom I would want to respond. If you want to add yourselves to that ruling, you can do so through the table staff and then we will rule on that matter. I don’t think it is useful for you to behave in the manner you are behaving now. Order, hon members.
RATES AND MONETARY AMOUNTS AND AMENDMENT OF REVENUE LAWS BILL
(Introduction)
ESKOM SPECIAL APPROPRIATION BILL
(Introduction)
ESKOM SUBORDINATED LOAN SPECIAL APPROPRIATION AMENDMENT BILL 2008-09 AND 2010-11 FINANCIAL YEARS
(Introduction)
The MINISTER OF FINANCE: House Chair, I had been waiting for too long to be called; hence I rushed to the podium. I indeed have the privilege and honour of introducing these three Bills in the National Assembly today. These, as having been read, are firstly, the Rates and Monetary Amounts and Amendment of Revenue Laws Bill; secondly, the Eskom Special Appropriation Bill; and thirdly, the Eskom Subordinated Loan Special Appropriation Amendment Bill.
The Rates and Monetary Amounts and Amendment of Revenue Laws Bill of 2015 contain some of the tax amendments as announced in the budget in February this year. This Bill only includes amendments with respect to adjustments to thresholds and tax rates. Most of these amendments were effective as from the tabling of the budget or soon thereafter. The remainder of the 2015 tax proposals will be included in the Taxation Laws Amendment Bill and the Tax Administration Laws Amendment Bill that will be tabled later in the year.
The main amendments in this Bill are the changes to personal income taxes; medical tax credits; the tax rate for trusts; the turnover tax regime for small businesses; transfer duties on the purchase of properties; and excise duties on alcohol and tobacco.
At the time of the 2014 budget, we expected economic growth of 2,7% for 2014. However, the actual figure came in at only 1,5%.
The Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement, MTBPS, in October 2014, recognised the impact that the slowdown in growth would have on tax revenue and on the sustainability of our public finances. This worsening in the revenue outlook prompted the announcement at the MTBPS in October last year that measures would have to be proposed to raise additional tax revenues in the budget of 2015 in order to narrow the deficit and to stabilise debt over the medium term.
Gross tax revenue collections for the 2014-15 fiscal year amounted to R986,3 billion, which was R7,4 billion less than the estimate of R993,7 billion at the time of the 2014 budget. However, it was R7,3 billion more than the more conservative figure of R979 billion at the time of the 2015 budget.
The two main tax instruments that were increased in the 2015 budget to help raise the additional required tax revenues were marginal person income taxes and fuel levies. The marginal tax rates for individual taxpayers with taxable incomes above R181 900 were increased by one percentage point as from 1 March 2015, increasing the top marginal rate of tax from 40% to 41% for those with taxable incomes of R701 300.
To counter the impact of inflation and provide some relief for those on lower incomes, the income tax brackets and rebates were increased by 4,2%. This resulted in an increase in the income tax free threshold for individuals from R70 700 to R73 650.
The increase in medical tax credit helps to maintain real relief for those who are members of medical schemes. The amount of medical tax credits that an individual can claim for medical aid contributions was increased by 5,1% from R250 to R257 per month for each of the first two beneficiaries and from R172 to R181 for any additional beneficiaries.
The marginal rate at which trusts are taxed increased from 40% to 41% to remain in line with the new maximum marginal personal income tax rate.
Increases in the general fuel levy by 30,5 cents per litre and the Road Accident Fund levy by 50 cents per litre were also implemented, although not part of this Bill.
These adjustments were processed as amendments to the Schedules for the Customs and Excise Act. The Davis Tax Committee recommended that the turnover tax regime for micro enterprises would be made more generous to provide additional support for businesses with an annual turnover of less than R1 million per year. This Bill includes adjustments that will increase the level of turnover at which micro businesses start paying tax, from R150 000 to R335 000 and reduces the marginal rates of tax that is paid on that turnover from a maximum of 6% down to 3%.
The excise duties on alcohol and tobacco were adjusted to maintain the targeted tax burdens expressed as a proportion of the average retail selling prices. The resulting increases were between 4,8% and 8,5% of alcoholic beverages and between 5% and 7% of tobacco products.
Transfer duty relief was provided for at the lower end and the transfer duties on the purchase of properties were made more progressive. This was made possible by increasing the value at which transfer duties are paid from R600 000 to R750 000, but at the same time creating an additional bracket for more expensive properties above R2,25 million with a higher marginal tax rate of 11%.
I now turn to the Eskom Special Appropriation Bill. During September 2014, Cabinet approved a support package that balanced a number of interventions that were aimed at making Eskom a sustainable business. The key interventions included Eskom improving efficiency through reducing costs; Eskom applying for tariff adjustments in line with regulatory processes; an allocation of R23 billion from government to help relieve the immediate impact on electricity consumers; and the conversion into equity of the subordinated loan that government had previously provided to Eskom.
The commitment to allocate R23 billion of funding to Eskom was reaffirmed in the 2014 MTBPS and in the 2015 budget. At the time of the budget it was indicated that the intention was to appropriate the funds in three tranches – R10 billion in June 2015; a second R10 billion in December 2015; and the remaining R3 billion in 2016-17.
In order to ensure that the funding allocation would not have an impact on the budget deficit, it is to be funded through the sale of nonstrategic government assets and the appropriations are to be made as the funds are received into the National Revenue Fund. This principle applies to all allocations to fund state-owned enterprises.
Significant progress has been made in raising the funds, anticipating the receipt of proceeds and to ensure that the first R10 billion allocation can be transferred in June as has been announced. I am introducing into Parliament the Eskom Special Appropriation Bill 2015 which provides for the appropriation of the R23 billion funding allocation announced in our budget this year.
The Eskom Subordinated Loan Special Appropriation – 2008-09 to 2010-11 financial years – Act of 2008 provided for funding totalling R60 billion to be provided to Eskom in the form of a subordinated loan to support the entity’s capital expenditure programme.
An amount of R10 billion was appropriated to Eskom during 2008-09; followed by amounts of R30 billion in 2009-10; and a further R20 billion in 2010-11. In line with the 2008 Act, the terms and conditions of the loan are specified in the subordinated loan agreement that was entered into between the Minister of Finance and Eskom. The loan has a term of 30 years. The loan is subordinated to any other debts of Eskom, meaning that Eskom would be required to pay all other creditors before using the remaining funds to repay government. Interest is payable but payment thereof is subject to the specified credit metrics of Eskom being sufficiently strong to meet the targeted levels. Similarly, although government charges guarantee fees, the payment of guarantee fees is subject to the same credit metrics being sufficiently strong.
To date Eskom has not been required to make payments for interest or guarantee fees. The conversion therefore to equity of the subordinated loan was one of the interventions that Cabinet approved as part of the September 2014 support package to Eskom. Conversion of the loan to equity will strengthen Eskom’s balance sheet. Due to its structure, a portion of the subordinated loan is already recognized as equity on Eskom’s balance sheet, whilst the remainder is reflected as debt. This loan conversion to equity would result in the full R60 billion being reflected as equity. This would reduce Eskom’s debt by R24,4 billion whilst simultaneously increasing the equity by the same amount. This is expected to result in an improvement in Eskom’s debt to equity ratio and other credit metrics.
The conversion to equity of the subordinated loan will have no direct cash flow impact either for Eskom or for government. The funds were already appropriated and paid to Eskom between 2008 and 2011. Eskom is currently not paying interest or guarantee fees on the loan, nor was it anticipated to do so over the three year period of the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework. The conversion of the loan also benefits Eskom by demonstrating government’s commitment to supporting the company.
To effect the conversion, an amendment to the Eskom Subordinated Loan Special Appropriation – financial years 2008-09 to 2010-11 – Act of 2008 is also being introduced.
In conclusion, I would like to thank the Standing Committee on Finance for its oversight role in processing the Rates and Monetary Amounts and Amendment of Revenue Laws Bill, and I trust that the Eskom Special Appropriation Bill and the Eskom Subordinated Loan Special Appropriation Amendment Bill will also be processed by the Standing Committee on Appropriations before the end of June 2015. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you Minister Nene. The Bill as introduced by the Minister will be referred to the Standing Committee on Finance for consideration and report.
CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR RECOMMENDATION OF CANDIDATES TO FILL VACANCIES – MEDIA DEVELOPMENT AND DIVERSITY AGENCY BOARD (MDDA)
Ms J C MOLOI-MOROPA: The Portfolio Committee on communications considered two letters from the president of the republic , the first one informing the assembly that Media Development and Diversity Agency (MDDA) board member Mr Riley Alicia Smith has turned up his resignation in accordance with the act. Again on the same letter the term of office for Mr Phenyo Noxane was about to expire on the 13 January 2015 accordingly.
The second letter was informing the assembly that MDDA board member Mr Robert Dengisa Nkuna who was appointed until 22 January 2016 has turned up his resignation in accordance with the act. Now, both these letters were requesting the assembly to commence with the process of recommending in accordance with the principle set out in section 4 (1B) of the act suitable candidate that will fill the vacancies for both the expired and the unexpired portion of the term of office.
The Portfolio Committee reporters follows to the NA, the following members were appointed by the Portfolio Committee to do the short listing and the appointment, hon Moloi Moropa who is the chairperson of the portfolio committee from the ANC, hon Davies from the DA, hon Ndlozi from the EFF, hon Tsotetsi from the ANC, hon Tsedi from the ANC, hon Kekane from the ANC, and hon Madisha from COPE.
The sub-committee short listed on the 24 March 2015 and the names were subsequently approved by the Portfolio Committee. The interviews were then conducted on the 31 March 2015 on Wednesday and on the 1 April 2015. An anonymous decision to recommend for appointment the three candidates was further referred to the portfolio committee on the 21.
The anonymous names that were recommended for the appointment are the following; the first one is Ms Palesa Kadi, the second one is Mr Thamsanqa Ntenteni and the third one is Mr Jabulane Blose.
Ms Palesa Kadi and Mr Thamsanqa Ntenteni are recommended to be appointed to serve the full term of the board, and Mr Jabulane Blose is recommended to be appointed to serve the unexpired portion of the board member who resigned.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank all members who worked diligently on those appointments and the supporting staff of parliament that assisted. This will go a long way to build this important organ of state, the MDDA, especially during this current time of the evolving technology and the need to close the technology illiteracy that exists within our society, particularly in the rural communities.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): The question before the House is that Ms Palesa Kadi, Mr Thamsanqa Ntenteni and Mr Jabulane Blose be recommended for the appointment to the MDDA, are there any objections? [Interjections],
Dr H CHEWANE: The EFF objects on the basis that we think that there has been a neutral perceptive ... [Interjections]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No you are now debating, the objection is enough. We note the objection of the EFF, and since there is an objection, I now put the question. Those in favour of the appointments of the three names that have been mentioned, those in favour say “Ayes” and those against say “Noes”. I think the “Ayes” have it. The objection of the EFF will be recorded
Ms H O MAXON: Can one make a declaration?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Yes you are allowed hon Member. [Interjections.] [Laughter.]
Dr H CHEWANE: I know the challenges that I am not known; my name is Dr H Chewane, this red coat substitute the white coat that I have been wearing for more than 10 years, practicing as a medical doctor in both private and the public sector, [Interjections].
I am equally proud to serve this nation also in this parliament representing the EFF objectives for the emancipation of black people in this country to pursue economic freedom. The declaration goes as follows; The EFF rejects all the...
Prince M G BUTHELEZI: On a point of order: Can I appeal to the comrades across not to mimic people that they object when they do what they are doing now.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Nimuzwile, umuntu omdala ukhulumile. [Hon member on the podium, continue.]
Dr H CHEWANE: The EFF objects the rates and military and revenue law bill. [Interjections.] [Laughter.] South Africa tax system continues to place the burden squarely on the working class, even in tough economic environment where the ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Member I am confused as to the declaration, it adds to what your declaration is based on. I think that’s what causes the confusion. Just continue ... [Interjections.], hon Members we are now dealing with the appointments of the members to the MDDA board.
Dr H CHEWANE: The basis of the rejection of the EFF is based on the fact that we feel that there has been a neutral perspective of a majority organisation to inform that bill. Sorry for confusing the House. [Interjections.]
Ms L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE: I think hon Chewane is reading on the wrong script, we are on the MDDA here, and will you rule him to be out of order so that we can proceed with the orders of the day.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Member I am not going to rule you out of order, I am going to help you. We are not dealing with a bill as I explained to you earlier; please put a declaration on what we are dealing with now.
Dr H CHEWANE: Hon Chair, I thank you, I really don’t know what informs the chaos really, even if I am confused, I don’t think it qualifies for the chaos that is coming from this side. The point is that I will not move, the EFF rejects the declaration on the basis of the reasons ... [Laughter.] [Interjections.]
The EFF rejects the report on the basis that we feel that there has been a neutral perspective because the majority part informs the appointments. So we reject totally that Bill. [Laughter.]
Ms G N M PANDOR: Hon Chair it has been the convention of parliament that when there is new members of parliament, they do not raise controversial issues. This convention has helped us to avoid a situation where members are being howled at.
When they are making speeches, they have always, at all times been encouraged not to be controversial, so I encourage as it has been convention that other parties that might not be a privy to this convention be taken abreast so that they help the House to continue in a manner that ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you hon Member your point has been made and I think the members have heard. Hon Moloi Moropa, continue.
Ms J C MOLOI-MOROPA: Quite clearly there is confusion from the side of the EFF as you could have heard that they were talking about something else.
Ms H O MAXON: On a point of order: There is no confusion from the side of the EFF because at the end of the day hon Chawane said he is objecting on the report that you just presented.
Ms J C MOLOI-MOROPA: Hon Mdlozi from EFF was part of these interviews as I did read out from the report that all of us agreed anonymously, that we are going along with the candidates, therefore I did not envisaged that there can be any objections from the House.
Point of order: Mr MAHLOKO: I don’t know whether is anonymous or unanimous, so I want us to be corrected so that we understand whether it’s anonymous or unanimous.
Ms J C MOLOI-MOROPA: Corrected as unanimous chair, but we never had any arguments, we all agreed because have done the best work that we considered the best candidates. I am really surprised that we came and heard an objection.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Members, I now put the question again, the question before the House is that Ms Palesa Kadi, Mr Thamsanqa Ntenteni, Mr Jabulane Blose be recommended to the MDD Agency board. Those in favour of these appointments please say “Ayes” and those against please say “Noes”. I think the “Ayes” have it.
Ms Palesa Kadi, Mr Thamsanqa Ntenteni and Mr Jabulane Blose accordingly recommended for appointment to the Media Development and Diversity Agency Board. The names of the persons recommended for appointed will be forwarded to the president.
Declarations of vote:
Dr H CHAWANE: Chairperson, thanks for the opportunity to speak for the first time in this fifth national democratic Parliament. I know the challenge that I’m not known. My name is Hlaiseka ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members.
Dr H CHEWANE: My name is Hlaiseka Chawane, yes, Dr Hlaiseka Chewane. This red coat substitutes a white coat that I’ve been wearing for more than 10 years, practicing as a medical doctor in both private and in the public sector. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members.
Dr H CHEWANE: I am equally proud also, to serve this nation in this Parliament, representing the EFF objectives for the emancipation of black people in this country to pursue economic freedom.
The declaration goes as follows: The EFF rejects all the ...
Prince M G BUTHELEZI: Madam Chair, I rise on a point of order: Can I appeal to the comrades across, not to mimic people that object, when they do what they are doing now.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Nksz G Boroto): Siyabonga Babu’Shenge. Nizwile; umuntu omdala ukhulumile. [Thank you Shenge (Clan name), sir. You heard; an elder has spoken.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member at the podium, continue.
Dr H CHEWANE: The EFF objects to the Rates and Monetary Revenue Law Bill. [Interjections.] South African tax system continues to place the burden squarely on the working class, even in tough economic environment where they ...
Ms L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE: Point of order.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members! Hon member, I am confused as to what your declaration is based on. I think that’s what causes the confusion. Just continue. [Interjections.] Hon members! We are dealing now with the appointments of members to media development ... Hon members, can I help the member at the podium please. [Interjections.] He can’t hear me, please!
Hon member, we are now dealing with the appointment of the Media Development and Diversity Agency, MDDA, ... [Inaudible.] [Interjections.]
Dr H CHEWANE: The basis of the rejection by the EFF is the fact that we feel that there has been unilateral perspective of a majority organisation to inform that Bill. I apologise for confusing the House.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, order!
Ms L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE: On a point of order, hon House Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order! Hon members, order.
Ms L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE: Point of order, Chair.
Mr B MANAMELA: On a point of order!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, order! Hon member, please take your seat, there is somebody here. Hon member what are you rising on?
Ms L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE: Hon chair, I think hon Hlaiseka is reading from the wrong script. We are debating on the Media Diversity Agency here. Will you rule him out of order so that we can proceed with the orders of the day.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, I am not going to rule you out of order. I am going to help you. We are not dealing with a Bill as I explained to you earlier. Please make a declaration of vote on what we are dealing with now. Thank you. [Interjections.] Order, hon members! Please allow him to be heard.
Dr H CHEWANE: Hon Chair, I really don’t know what informs the chaos here, even if I am confused. I don’t think it qualifies for the chaos that is coming from this side. The point is that I will not move. The EFF rejects the declaration on the basis of the reasons ... [Interjections.] ... The EFF ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order! Hon members, ...
Dr H CHEWANE: The EFF rejects the report on the basis that we feel there has been a unilateral perspective, because the majority party informs the appointments. Therefore, we totally reject that Bill. [Interjections.] [Laughter.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you, hon member. [Interjections.]
Mr B MANAMELA: Point of order, Chair. Point of order. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Do we have any more declarations?
Ms M T V TOBIAS: Hon Chair Chairperson, hon Chair.
Ms J C MOLOI-MOROPA: Thanks, ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order hon members. Hon Moloi-Moropa, please sit for a while. Hon Tobias.
Ms M T V TOBIAS: Hon Chair, it has been the convention of Parliament that when there are new members of Parliament, they do not raise controversial issues. This convention has helped us to avoid situations where members are being howled at, because when they are making their maiden speeches they have always been encouraged not to be controversial. Therefore I encourage, as is the convention, that other parties that might not be privy to this convention be made abreast so that they help the House to continue in a manner that befits it.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you, hon member your point has been made and I think the members have heard. Continue, hon Moloi-Moropa.
Ms J C MOLOI-MOROPA: Thank you, Chair, quite clearly there is confusion from the side of the EFF as you would have heard. They were talking about something else, ...
Ms H O MAXON: Order Chair, ...
THE HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): There’s a point of order. Sit down, hon member.
Ms H O MAXON: There is no confusion on the side of the EFF, because at the end of the day hon Hlaiseka said he is objecting on the report that you just presented.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you very much. Can you continue with the declaration, please, Thank you.
Ms J C MOLOI-MOROPA: Chairperson, hon Ndlozi from EFF, was part of these interviews, as I did read out from the report that all of us agreed anonymously that we are going along with the candidates and therefore I did not envisage that there would be any objections from the House. [Inaudible.]
Mr A M MATLHOKO: On a point of Order! Point of order, Chair.
Ms J C MOLOI-MOROPA: Nonetheless, I heard that it was an objection, not on the MDDA, but on something else.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Moloi-Moropa, ...
Mr A M MATLHOKO: Chairperson, on a point of order: I don’t know whether is “anonymous” or “unanimous”. Therefore, I would like clarification. Is it “anonymous” or “unanimous”?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you, hon Mathloko. I think you heard the correct word. Thank you. Continue madam.
Ms J C MOLOI-MOROPA: ... corrected as “unanimously”, Chair, but we never had any arguments. We all agreed, because we did the best work and we considered the best candidates. I am really surprised to hear we have an objection. Thank you, Chair.
Question agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Ms Palesa Kadi, Mr Thamsanqa Ntenteni and Mr Jabulane Blose accordingly recommended for appointment to the Media Development and Diversity Agency Board.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr M H REDELINGHUIS: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the impact of cable theft, improper electricity infrastructure and illegal electricity connections, with particular reference to informal settlements, their role in shack fires and solutions to address this problems.
I so move. Thank you.
Mr N J KOORNHOF: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House discusses the importance of agroprocessing and the role trade and industry can play to assist it.
Mrs S J NKOMO: Madam Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House debates the current failure by custom authorities at airports and border posts to enforce the 01 June immigration regulation, that children under the age of 18 will be required to have an abridged birth certificate or equivalent document if they are entering or leaving the country as part of South Africa’s and steps that must be taken to ensure the enforcement and application of this regulation at all ports of entry.
I thank you, Madam.
Ms E N LOUW: Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:
That the House debates the role of Parliament in holding the executive to account, promoting multiparty democracy and protecting the rule of law and ensuring that the executive does not abuse Chapter 9 institutions such as the Public Protector. And it amazes me that the ANC is laughing at this.
On a point of order, Chairperson: Is it parliamentary for a member to say to another member “hayi suka” [go away]. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Who said that, hon Louw?
Ms E N LOUW: All of those who are that side. [Laughter.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Louw, we have said before that such words should not be used. But unfortunately, we don’t have any person who said it. It is not parliamentary. Thank you. Hon Khubisa, it’s your time.
Prof N M KHUBISA: Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the NFP:
That the House deliberates the negative effects of wasteful and fruitless expenditure by municipalities on service delivery and development in our country.
I so move.
Ms H O MAXON: You are very excited. Yes, he is a doctor. Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:
That the House debates the abuse of the state institutions such as the SA Revenue Service, Sars, the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, and the police in the pursuance of narrow political agenda.
I so move.
Mr C D MATSEPE: Madam Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the ANC’s removal of the mayors of Mogalakwena and Blouberg local municipalities as well as Buffalo City and Nelson Mandela Bay in the Eastern Cape after years of infightings and severe inabilities to deliver services to the communities.
I thank you.
Ms N V NQWENISO: Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:
That the House debates the state of our country’s water infrastructure and the implications of these on the capacity of the state to deliver services and on our future for water security.
Thank you.
Ms P MANTASHE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House discusses the advantages and disadvantages of gambling in South Africa, and whether we need a policy change to keep up with global trends.
I so move.
Dr H CHEWANE: Hon Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:
That the House discusses the key ingredients needed to boost smallholder agriculture, grow the rural economy and ensure that South Africa is food self-sufficient.
Thank you.
Mr B T BONGO: Chairperson, hon Boroto, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House discusses capacitating community-based organisations to assist in the sustainable rehabilitation of former prisoners and or inmates, and assist them in the integration processes in the communities.
I so move. Thank you.
Mr K P SITHOLE: Hon House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House debates the condition of the informal settlement in Kliptown, given the history of the area.
I so move. Thank you
Mr M S A MAILA: House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates the articulation of South Africa’s national interest and the country’s obligation to the global community in relation to the sustainability of the natural environment, the global economy, the international flow of migrants, human freedom and international co-operation.
I so move.
Mr M HLENGWA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House debates the plight of the small scale farmers, particularly in our rural areas who, because of current drought conditions, currently find themselves unable to adequately feed supply to their livestock and the steps that should be taken to assist them in this regard.
I thank you.
Ms T M A TONGWANE: House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates the strengthening of the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, and the Labour Court in dispute resolutions and to support trade unions and employers in managing shop floor relations.
Thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs M R SHINN: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House –
- debates the economic impact of the delay of migrating to the digital broadcasting on –
- the South African production of quality content for television broadcasting;
- the development and delivery of internet government-based services and commercial products services; and
- the cost to communicate.
Mrs L L VAN DER MERWE: Hon House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House debates the latest blacklisting incident at the SABC which has seen a political commentator being uninvited from a program for allegedly making negative comments on the latest Inkandla report, and which alarmingly again points at the fact that the SABC is in the firm control of Luthuli House and the implications thereof for our young democracy.
I so move.
Mr B BHANGA: Hon Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the fundamental difference between a democratically elected mayor and a mayor appointed behind closed doors.
Thank you, Chair.
Mr J VOS/Dr M J FIGG: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates bribery and corruption in the South African government.
Dr M J CARDO: Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the need to deregulate South Africa’s labour market in light of our high levels of unemployment, especially amongst the youth who accounts for over two thirds of the unemployed.
I so move.
UNITED NATIONS OBSERVES INTERNATIONAL DAY OF INNOCENT CHILDREN VICTIMS OF AGGRESSION
Mr S M RALEGOMA: I move without notice on behalf of the ANC that on the next sitting day
That the House –
- notes the United Nations International Day of Innocent Children Victims of Aggression is observed on 4 June each year to affirm the UN’s commitment to protect the rights of children;
- further notes the purpose of the day is to acknowledge the pain suffered by children throughout the world who are the victims of physical, mental and emotional abuse;
- recalls that this day celebrates the millions of individuals and organisations working to protect and preserve the rights of children;
- further recalls that the global movement for children with leadership from Nelson Mandela and Graça Machel is one of the exemplary organisations inspiring force for change that involves ordinary people and families worldwide;
- remembers that the UN international day of innocent children victims of aggression is a global observance and not a public holiday;
- acknowledges that child abuse is now in the sport light of global attention and the UN is working hard to help protect children around the world and;
(7) calls upon everyone to observe this day and help to stop exploitation and abuse of children.
Agreed to.
CITY OF TSHWANE REQUESTED TO ADDRESS SAFETY CONCERNS OF MAIDE SQUARE COMMUNITY
Mr M H REDELINGHUIS: On behalf of the DA, I hereby move without notice
That this House –
- notes the safety concerns of the community of Midas Square in Mabopane in ward 22 in the City of Tshwane
- also notes that this dam has been dubbed the dam of death after the bodies of five people, including three young boys and a police officer, were found in the dam
(3) further notes that the community has requested that the City of Tshwane address their safety concerns and
(4) calls on the municipality to give consideration to their request and address their concerns.
Agreed to.
SA REVENUE SERVICE WITHDRAWS ITS APPLICTION TO SEQUESTRATE JULIUS MALEMA
Ms H O MAXON: I move without notice on behalf of the EFF that
That the House –
- notes that the SA Revenue Service, Sars, confessed on Monday 1 June 2015 in the High Court that it has no evidence against the commander in chief and president of the EFF, Julius Malema, in their malicious and politically motivated case to sequestrate him,
- notes that hon commander in chief paid all the money as per agreement, but Sars, in its wickedness, filed for sequestration; oh what a sign of political desperation;
- further notes that Judge Gregory Wrights pointed out the illogical move by Sars to use the Insolvency Act, Act 24 of 1936, to deal with the EFF leader, hon Malema, from generating income and serving as a party leader in Parliament and by default harm the fiscus when the easiest option was to use the existing Tax Administration Act, Act 28 of 2011;
- further notes that the use of the state institutions, particularly Sars, to fight political battles on behalf of the ruling party,
- applaud more than 8 000 EFF supporters who came in their numbers outside court in defence of our leader who was being prosecuted for political reasons in an attempt by the ruling party to prevent him from serving our people in this democratic Parliament and speak on behalf of the masses as he was put here by the people, not the ANC;
- welcomes the embarrassing withdrawal of Sars’ application to sequestrate as well as withdrawing the provincial sequestration order it has against the commander in chief;
- further notes that the withdrawal by Sars, without giving reasons, is a demonstration that it has lost its independence and is being used as a political tool and
(8) further notes that the EFF, as a government in waiting, will restore Sars dignity and it must not to try to enter into political a game which it does not understand.
Not agreed to.
NAME CHANGE AND REMOVAL OF COLONIAL AND APARTHEID STATUES FROM PUBLIC SPACES
Mr N M PAULSEN: On behalf of the EFF, I move without notice
That the House -
- notes that the Rhodes University council has approved the two stage process for talks on changing the name of the Grahamstown institution following the successful protest by the University of Cape Town, UCT, students to remove the Cecil John Rhodes from UCT campus;
- further notes that it is the EFF the first party to publicly call for the removal of statues from our public spaces, [Interjections.]
(3) celebrates this as an important step towards the transformation of our public academic spaces which opens up a meaningful possibility to recreate them in favour of a progressive cultural symbolism that represents post apartheid democratic values;
(4) calls upon Parliament to take courage and inspiration from the UCT “Rhodes must fall movement” and remove all colonial and apartheid monuments in our public spaces, starting with Louis Botha, Jan Smuts and Queen Victoria in the precinct of a democratic Parliament;
(5) further notes that the EFF has long argued that it is these monuments that continue to inspire white people to think that they are superior and have the right to celebrate their murderous and racist past even 21 years after 1994;
- further notes that the plaque commemorating the architect of apartheid, Hendrik Verwoerd was nicodemusly removed from Stellenbosch University’s commerce building on Wednesday evening following the call by open Stellenbosch transformation group for its removal;
- appreciates that Verwoerd grandson captures it correctly when he endorsed the removal saying that honouring his grandfather rubbed salt in the wounds of black South Africans;
- calls upon government to remove all colonial and racist statues that represent the indignity of our people and
(10) calls for the fall of all colonial statues, together with their legacies of landlessness, racism and poverty.
Not agreed to.
MOTION OF CONDOLENCE
(The late Mr B MBATHA)
Ms MAKHUBELE-MASHELE: I move without notice on behalf of the ANC
That the House –
- notes with sadness the untimely death of the South African national defence force chief logistics officer, Bongani Mbatha, after a short illness last month;
- further notes that the 57 year old former Mkhonto weSizwe veteran was buried with full military honours at the Thaba Tshwane military sports club on Wednesday, 13 May;
- recalls that Mbatha was an accomplished soldier, patriot and a distinguished veteran of the liberation struggle;
- remembers that he was actively involved in student politics and was involved in the 1976 Soweto student’s uprising;
- further remembers that he left South Africa in 1978 to join the military wing of the ANC, uMkhonto weSizwe, and spent 15 years of his life in exile in various countries in the African continent;
- acknowledges that after operating in several countries under the pseudonym of Thabo Sekgapane, Mbatha returned to South Africa in 1993, working for the defence force until his death;
- believes that his death leaves a huge void in the South African National Defence Force and in South Africa;
- extends its deepest condolences to his wife, son, daughters, and the Mbatha family as a whole.
Agreed to.
ISIPHO SEEBHAYISEKILE KWIZIKOLO ZASEMPUMA KOLONI NAKWAZULU-NATAL
(Uyilo Lwesigqibo)
Nksk Z B N BALINDLELA: Sihlalo, ndenza isiphakamiso:
sokuba leNdlu -
- iqwalasele okokuba iibhayisekile ezingama-600 zinikezelwe kubafundi abaphuma kwizikolo ezi-11 beelali zikaMasipala waseNkonkobe kwiphondo laseMpuma Koloni;
- kwakhona iibhayisekile ezingama-500 zinikezelwe kubafundi baseMzikhulu, kwiphondo laKwaZulu-Natal kwinyanga kaTshazimpunzi;
- iqaphele kwakhona ukuba ezi bhayisekile lilinge phakathi komzi wakwaVolkswagen, iQhubeka, neWorld Vision of SA neWorld Vision yaseSwitzerland ebizwa ngokuba yi-Bicycle Education Empowerment Programme;
- oku kwenzeka kwingqikelelo yabafundi abakwizigidi ezi-11, abahamba ama-20 eekhilomitha ukuzama ukufika kwizikolo abafunda kuzo;
- eli galelo leebhayisekile lifikelele kuma-8100 kumaphondo amahlanu ukususela ngonyaka wama-2013;kwaye
- oku konke lilinge lokubulela lo mbutho weebhayisekile waseSwitzerland namahlakani awo ekuzinikeleni kwabo ukuncedisa kwiphulo loMzantsi Afrika lemfundo yabantu abasebatsha nabafundi abasakhulayo. Enkosi.
Kwavunyelwana. (Translation of isiXhosa draft resolution follows.)
[BICYCLE GIFTS IN EASTERN CAPE AND KWAZULU-NATAL SCHOOLS
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs Z B N BALINDLELA: Hon Chairperson, I move that:
This House -
- notes that 600 bicycles were given to learners from 11 schools of villages of Nkonkobe Municipality in the Eastern;
- further notes that 500 bicycles were given to learners in uMzikhulu, in KwaZulu-Natal province in April;
- further notes that if this campaign is an initiative between Volkswagen, Qhubeka, and World Vision of SA and World Vision of Switzerland which is called Bicycle Education Empowerment Programme;
- this is happening in an estimation of 11 million learners, who walk 20 kilometres to their schools;
- this bicycle contribution reached 8100 in five provinces in 2013;and
- all this is an initiative to thank the bicycle organisation of Switzerland and its partners for their contribution in assisting South African campaign towards education to young people and learners who are still growing. Thank you.
Agreed to.]
SEARING INDIA’s HEAT WAVE DEATH TOLL STILL RISES
(Draft Resolution)
Prof N KHUBISA: Hon Chair, I move without notice:
That the House –
- notes that a searing and continuing heat wave in India has so far killed more than 2300 people;
- further notes that temperatures in excess of 47 degrees Celsius have been recorded during the heat wave;
- also acknowledges that this heat wave is expected to continue until 5 June 2015, and that the death toll could still rise;
- further notes that this heat wave is the 5th deadliest in recorded world history; and
- conveys its sincere condolences to the government and people of India on the tragic loss of life.
Agreed to.
SAD PASSING OF REV CEDRIC RADCLIFFE MAYSON
(Draft Resolution)
Ms L S MAKHUBELE-MASHELE: I moved without notice:
That the House -
- notes with sadness the death of Reverend Cedric Radcliffe Mayson on Saturday, 23 May 2015 in a hospital in Nelspruit following an illness;
- further notes that Reverend Cedric Mayson was born in the United Kingdom in 1927, and came to South Africa as a Methodist Minister in 1953 and served as a minister in the Methodist Church from 1953 until 1974;
- recalls that he served as a full-time member of the Christian Institute from 1974 until 1977, the institute that initiated the Kairos document;
- further recalls Reverend Mayson was banned in 1977, when the Christian Institute was banned, along with Dr Beyers Naudé and Rev Theo Kotze;
- remembers that he was detained twice, the first time on his honeymoon in 1976 and the second time in November 1981, and was subsequently charged with high treason;
- further remembers that in February 1983 he fled to the UK after the judge had granted him bail when the state had not been able to prove its case to the court;
- acknowledges that while he was in exile, he served as an interface between political and religious groups, and did much travelling and work with and for the ANC in exile;
- further acknowledges that his last post was with the religious desk of the ANC as the Convener of the Commission for Religious Affairs and that he was the author of three books and many articles; and
- extends our heartfelt condolences to his wife Penelope, his eight children, the Mayson family at large and all the friends of Reverend Mayson.
Agreed to.
CONGRATULATIONS TO WINNERS OF THE COMRADE MARATHON
(Draft Resolutions)
Ms D CARTER: I move without notice:
That the House -
- notes that the Comrades Marathon is one of the greatest long distance races in the world, and that those who win such a race are indeed supremely fit athletes of great stature worthy of national adulation;
- acknowledges that Gift Kelehe made his friends, family and the whole of South Africa proud with his rhythmic run and strong finish allowing him to win by crossing the line in five hours and three minutes;
- acknowledges that the Kelehe’s family has now produced two winners of the Comrades Marathon with his brother Andrew having done so in 2001, and Gift winning in 2015;
- recognises that Gift beat Mohammed Husien of Ethiopia, a country that has consistently been with Kenya in the very forefront of long distance races, and as such has shown to fellow South Africans the importance of training and of entertaining belief in our capabilities; and
- therefore congratulates Gift Kelehe for his outstanding performance in winning the premier long distance race in our country and the world.
Agreed to.
FIFA PRESIDENT SEPP BLATTER RESIGNS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Enkosi Sihlalo, uyayibona le nto yakho yokusintswinya thina besesilibele nokuba sikhona. Ntonje ndiphinde ndayiqonda ukuba unesizathu sokusintswinya, kuba sisandula ukukuthathela ijoni, kulamajoni enu oMkhonto weSizwe. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[Thank you Chairperson, you see this thing of denying us a chance, we even forgot that we are present. But I understand you have a reason to do so because we have just taken your uMkhonto weSizwe soldier.]
I move without notice:
That the House -
- notes the media reports that, Mr Joseph “Sepp” Blatter tendered his resignation as the President of the Federation of International Football Association, Fifa on 2 June 2015;
- further notes that his resignation as Fifa President comes after his re-election a week ago;
- notes again that his resignation comes at a time when Fifa executives are facing corruption scandals regarding the awarding of the 2010 Fifa World Cup to South Africa, and other corruption scandals;
- further acknowledges that, while we commend Blatter for the role he played in the development of football, in particular for taking the World Cup to Africa, we should encourage investigations against all those who face allegations of corruption at Fifa; and
- calls on this House and the South African government to support all efforts undertaken to root out corruption at Fifa and in our society in general.
Agreed to.
CONGRATULATIONS ON THE 40th ANNIVERSARY OF THE IFP
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs S J NKOMO: I move without notice:
That the House –
- congratulates the success of the IFP’s 40th anniversary event that was held at the International Convention Centre in Durban on Sunday, 31 May 2015;
- appreciates the attendance of former State President, Kgalema Motlanthe, ruling party’s chairperson and Speaker of the NA, the hon Baleka Mbete, leaders of political parties, royalty from African nations, and diplomats from across the world were among the dignitaries invited and graced the gala dinner;
- notes that Prince Buthelezi after consultation with Mr OR Tambo established the membership based organisation; and
- further notes that former Deputy President Motlante’s remarks that the national liberation movement, Inkatha, later IFP was part of the struggle for South Africa’s liberation with its roots in the hallowed values of unity and nonviolence.
Not agreed to.
Ms S V KALYAN: Hon House Chair, on a point of order: May I know who is objecting? The person did not stand up and say I object. That is the Rule of the House.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you, hon member. Sustained. Can the member please stand?
Mr M L D NTOMBELA: Hon Chair, yes I object. I think many people were killed by IFP in the country. [Interjections.] I withdraw.
Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Speaker: Hon House Chair, that is a very serious allegation and I know that he is withdrawn but just to say it, is unparliamentary.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): I get your point. Hon Ntombela, ...
Mr A M MPONTSHANE: In fact, I am just irritated by what he has just said because any political moron knows that is not true and he is not a political moron.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you let us not get into a debate. I get your point. Hon Ntombela, ... hon Bhengu, please allow the member to stand. Hon member, the remarks that you have made are unparliamentary, will you please withdraw. Can you switch on your microphone?
Mr M L D NTOMBELA: I withdraw unconditionally.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Do you also withdraw the objection?
Mr M L D NTOMBELA: Yes, I withdraw.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you, hon Nkomo. The motion is agreed to.
Agreed to.
LOSS OF LIFE AFTER CHINESE PASSENGER SHIP CAPSIZES ON THE YANGTZE RIVER
(Draft Resolution)
Mr S C MNCWABE: Hon House Chairperson, on behalf of the NFP, I hereby move without notice:
That the House –
- notes that on Monday, 1 June 2015, a Chinese passenger ship with 456 people on board capsized on the Yangtze River during a freak tornado;
- further notes that, to date, only 14 people have been found alive;
- acknowledges that the majority of the passengers on board were elderly Chinese citizens;
- further acknowledges that the Premier of China has gone to the scene of the tragic incident to personally oversee the ongoing rescue efforts; and
- conveys its sincere condolences to the government and people of the People’s Republic of China on the tragic loss of life.
Agreed to.
DOCTORS AT TYGERBERG HOSPITAL DEVELOP NEW TECHNIQUE TO TREAT SERIOUS BURN VICTIMS
(Draft Resolution)
Ms C N MAJEKE: Hon House Chairperson, on behalf of the UDM, I hereby move without notice:
That the House -
- notes that on 22 May 2015, it was reported that a new technique developed by doctors at Tygerberg Hospital is now challenging the prognosis for serious burn victims, offering lifesaving, viable and affordable treatment and making their previously bleak outlook much better;
- further notes that Dr Wayne Kleintjies, head of the adult burn unit at Tygerberg Hospital, developed the new technique which makes use of patients’ own skin harvested via a skin biopsy and then externally cultivated in a laboratory;
- also notes that, in some cases, the total cost of skin grafting can amount to R1,8 million;
- acknowledges that the new technique is remarkable in the sense that it offers patients treatment at a fraction of the cost that similar techniques would normally cost, with the first patient treated at a total cost of R995;
- ecognizes that there are a host of other techniques available, but that none of them prove to be as cost effective;
- further ecognizes that Dr Kleintjies stated that this is particularly important in this country, where the South Africa Medical Research Council estimates that approximately 3,2% of the adult population in South Africa suffer from thermal injuries a year; and
- congratulates Dr Kleintjies and the Tygerberg Hospital on their efforts to give burn victims hope and continuously contribute to progress in the medical field.
Agreed to.
Ms H O MAXON: Hon House Chairperson, on behalf of the EFF, I hereby move without notice —
That the House —
- notes that, after a close reading of the report recently issued by Minister Nathi Nhlekho, the EFF will bring a legal challenge against the actions of Ministers Nathi Nhlekho and Thulas Nxesi, and President Jacob Zuma and the Cabinet for collectively and deliberately breaching the Constitution;
- notes that the EFF believes that these parties have conspired to review, contradict and reverse the findings of the Public Protector, an independent Chapter 9 institution;
- further notes that the courts have repeatedly stated the principle that remedial action proposed by the Public Protector must be complied with unless a party approaches a court of law to have them set aside, not through a press conference to clear President Zuma from paying back the money irregularly spent on his private residence;
- acknowledges that Minister Nhleko’s report was nothing but a rehash of the discredited findings of the interministerial report released in December 2013 by Thulas Nxesi;
- takes note that, as part of keeping the executive accountable to this House, the EFF vows to continue to raise the question of when and not whether Jacob Zuma will pay back the money whenever he appears in Parliament in the next four years until such time that he complies with the law, because he is not above the law;
- further notes that the court action will form only one part of a comprehensive programme to get back the money stolen from our people to benefit Zuma and his cronies illegally, and that we will take it to the streets until he pays back the money;
- calls on President Zuma’s conscience – if he has one – to pay back the money irregularly spent on his private residence and redirect it to programmes that will benefit our people on the ground;
- further notes that the ad hoc committee set up to discuss the report by the Minister is a violation of the Constitution and contradicts the Public Protector’s report which orders the Ministers to determine how much the President should pay back, and not to absolve the President, as the Minister did.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): If there are no objections, I put the motion. [Interjections.]
Mr S M RALEGOMA: We object. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): As there is an objection, the motion falls away.
Ms H O MAXON: Chair, it is unfair. That comrade... that member did not object to my motion.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No, hon Maxon. He went to the microphone and objected.
Mr S M RALEGOMA: We object to populist stances.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you, hon member. I have already indicated that the motion falls away in the light of the objection.
SOUTH AFRICA’S WOMEN’S NATIONAL SOCCER TEAM, BANYANA BANYANA, EASES INTO THE THIRD ROUND OF THE 2016 RIO OLYMPIC QUALIFIERS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M L W FILTANE: Chair, on behalf of the UDM, I move without notice:
That the House —
- notes that the South African Women’s national team, Banyana Banyana, eased into the third round of the 2016 Rio Olympic qualifiers following a convincing 5-0 victory over Gabon;
- further notes that these spectacular results at the Dobsonville Stadium on Sunday, 31 May 2015 come after the team won the first leg 3-2 on 23 May 2015, securing a whopping aggregate score of 8-2;
- congratulates the team and wishes them all the best for their next game against Kenya in July 2015; and
- encourages South Africans to rally behind and support the team throughout the qualifiers.
Agreed to.
Dr H CHEWANE: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the House –
- notes the wrongful arrest of the EFF Member of Parliament, Fana Mokoena, and that other people were engaged in a protest to stop the King Dalindyebo Municipality from illegally demolishing people’s homes;
- acknowledges that King Dalindyebo municipality was in contravention of a standing court order which bared them from demolishing these homes by the merciless ANC government;
- realises that these actions by the ANC government of demolishing people’s homes was in violation of section 26(3) of the Constitution which reads thus: No one may be evicted from their home, or have their home demolished, without an order of court made after considering all the relevant circumstances. No legislation may permit arbitrary evictions;
- recognises that the ANC government also failed to comply with the prevention of illegal invasion and unlawful occupation of land Act which deals with such provisional prescription and prohibit any person from being evicted or having their homes demolished without on alternative provided for by the municipality;
- observes that those were police and the prosecutor distanced themselves from the unlawful arrest of 19 people including a Member of Parliament who spent the night in jail;
- condemns the ANC government for enforcing the apartheid laws that allowed conviction of black people without court orders and turned them into perpetual Hobos;
- calls on the municipality to respect the laws of this country and the standing court order that prevents them from evicting and demolishing houses of people;
- denounces the unlawful and wrongful arrest of EFF members who defended the rights and the people of King Dalindyebo Municipality to occupy land and live in peace with their families in their homes. I so move.
Ms L S MAKHUBELA–MASHELE: House Chairperson, we object to that motion even the calling King Dalindyebo incorrectly, we object to it. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): The motion has been objected to so it falls off. [Interjections.]
Ms D CARTER: House Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the House –
- acknowledges that gender parity is a distinguishing feature of the modern Comrades Marathon, and the significant number of women who run the race and compete virtually on par with male runners is a tribute to all South Africans, and a matter of great pride for women to see in these runners are role models who represent style, grit, determination and supreme fitness;
- admits that 20 000 runners started the 90th addition of Comrades Marathon on 31 May 2015, and that this is so different from 1921 when only 16 people finished this first Comrades Marathon;
- notes that Caroline Wostmann made her family, friends, fellow runners and the whole of South Africa proud with her rhythmic run and strong finish allowing her to be the first South African woman in 16 very long years to win, by crossing the line in six hours and 12 minutes;
- records that Wostmann’s win complete a glorious double for South African on the day complementing the win of her male compatriot, Gift Kelehe;
- recalls how South Africans anxiously held their collective breath when Wostmann decided to take a nature break, but, in spite of that, she was still 14 minutes ahead of the next woman runner;
- observes that Caroline Wostmann was 36th overall and during the last 8 km was faster than the winner, Gift Kelehe;
- remembers that Caroline Wostmann completed her own double having earlier won the two ocean after following a plan and a strategy; and therefore
- congratulates Caroline Wostmann on her outstanding performance in winning the premier long distance race in our country and the world. I so move.
Agreed to.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members, earlier on when I asked a member of the ANC to withdraw to the unparliamentary remark, I referred to the member as hon Ntombela. I really want to apologise. It was not hon Ntombela but hon Mpumlwana and I hope that my apology is accepted.
Debate concluded.
The House Adjourned at 18:41.
__________
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly
The Speaker
1. Introduction of Bills
- The Minister of Finance
- Rates and Monetary Amounts and Amendment of Revenue Laws Bill [B 15 – 2015] (National Assembly – proposed sec 77).
Introduction and referral to the Standing Committee on Finance of the National Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of the Bill may be submitted to the JTM. The Bill may only be classified after the expiry of at least three parliamentary working days since introduction.
- Eskom Special Appropriation Bill [B 16 – 2015] (National Assembly – proposed sec 77).
- Eskom Subordinated Loan Special Appropriation Amendment Bill (2008/09-2010/11 Financial Years) [B 17 – 2015] (National Assembly – proposed sec 77).
Introduction and referral to the Standing Committee on Appropriations of the National Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of the Bills may be submitted to the JTM. The Bills may only be classified after the expiry of at least three parliamentary working days since introduction.
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
- The Speaker and the Chairperson
- Consolidated General Report of the Auditor-General on the Audit Outcomes of Local Government for 2013-14 [RP 172-2015].
COMMITTEE REPORTS
National Assembly
Please see pages 2045-2070 of the ATCs.
Please see pages 2070-2087 of the ATCs.
Please see pages 2088-2116 of the ATCs.
Please see pages 2117-2119 of the ATCs
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