Hansard: NA: Unrevised Hansard
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 09 Mar 2017
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
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PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
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The House met at 14:05.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a
moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
The SPEAKER: The only item on the Order Paper is questions
addressed to the Deputy President. Hon members may press the top
button on their desks if they wish to ask a supplementary
question.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker.
The SPEAKER: Yes, hon member
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The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I don‟t want to disturb the
Deputy President, but I would like to raise a question of
privilege with you, if I may?
The SPEAKER: What is the question of privilege?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, the Deputy
President when he was in the House last answer question session
reminded this House around the constitutional provisions for the
deployment of the South African National Defence Force, SANDF,
by the President of the Republic of South Africa. Section
55(2)(b) of the Constitution places this House responsible for
exercising oversight of the exercise of the executive authority
vested in the President.
In terms of section 201(2) of the Constitution, when the
President deploys the defence force, he is required to inform
this House of the reasons why there is a set down prescription
on why and how it should be done.
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The SPEAKER: Hon Steenhuisen, please I really want to urge you
to abandon these points and you know how you need to take the
matter up.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, it is a point
of privilege and needs to be raised in the House in terms of the
Rules. Rule 31, said I must raise it with you as soon as
possible, if you would allow me to finish. I am nearly done.
During the course of the 2016 deployment of the SANDF no such
letter from the President was tabled in this House and therefore
the Constitution and the Defence Act have been bridged and all I
am asking you Madam Speaker, is to please investigate this
matter, and the circumstances why that procedure that the Deputy
President outlined was not followed and to report back to the
House on that matter. Thank you.
The SPEAKER: Hon members, the first question has been asked by
the hon Johnson to the hon the Deputy President.
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The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker?
The SPEAKER: Hon Steenhuisen, can you please take your seat and
let the House proceed?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, I raised a
point of privilege and you need to respond either yes that you
will or no that you won‟t.
The SPEAKER: Hon Steenhuisen, of course I will.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Question 7:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Madam Speaker, Science and Technology as
well as innovation hold the key to equitable growth in our
country. That is why the National Development Plan, NDP, has set
what one would call ambitious targets to increase the number of
students who are eligible towards Maths and Science degrees by
2030.
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It calls for the percentage of PhD qualified staff in the higher
education sector to be increased from the current 34% to over
75% by 2030. In a rapidly changing global economy where many
traditional occupations are continuously been displayed by
technology as we would have had about the Fourth Industrial
Revolution intentions, it is critical that South Africa develops
its scientific research capabilities and produces suitably
qualified people who will play a key role in the evolving
economy. That is why government is directing greater effort and
more resources towards skills development in Science, Technology
as well as innovation.
Since the advent of our democracy, we have made what I would
call important progress in this regard. The number of graduate
who have done Science, Engineering and Technology has increased
from around 20 000 a year in 1994 to around 58 000 a year in
2015. This is phenomenal progress, but significant challenge
still remain particularly in the area of Maths and Science,
which are still poor across our education system, although
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enrolment in Science, Engineering and Technology in universities
has been increasing.
There are still only a few graduates who finally complete their
studies. Less than 25% of students who enrol for a Bachelor of
Science or Engineering degree actually finally graduate. This is
a course for concern. Many of the challenges that they face have
their roots in our basic education system which is still
arrested by the apartheid legacy that our country has been
through.
To address these challenges, government introduced a number of
initiatives and some of those are increasing grants to the
provinces to promote teaching and learning of Mathematics,
Science and Technology and in a number of provinces we see this
bearing fruits already.
The Department of Basic Education also plans to award 38 000
Funza Lushaka Bursaries over medium-term at a cost of
3,3 billion to train teachers, particularly in Maths, Science
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and Technology. Now, this is putting great resources to an area
where we need to see great improvement.
To strengthen these efforts, the Human Resource Development
Council, HRDC, council has established Mathematics and Science
standing committee consisting of seasoned academics, as well as
professionals, who are led by Professor Mamokgethi Phakeng to
advice the HRDC on improving Maths and Science in our education.
So, as we can see a number of initiatives are underway and in
this regard we are also working with private sector to ensure
that we do reach the highest levels of success in this regard.
Over 13 000 postgraduate students and 796 postgraduate fellows
were awarded bursaries through the National Research Foundation,
NRF, which is managed by the Department of Science and
Technology. More than 4 300 researchers were awarded research
grants through the NRF, to ensure that our skills development
programme meet the needs of an innovative and dynamic economy.
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Our Sector Education and Training Authority, SETAs, are also
doing a great deal of work in this regard. Working together with
the private sector, a lot of money is being deployed to ensure
that we do have a great deal of success. The private sector is
doing some practical work for Engineering students and ensuring
that they do get the necessary skills.
On an overall basis, I think we have embarked on a number of
initiatives to ensure that we do delve a number of young people
in our country into science, technology and innovation and we
will start seeing the benefits of all these in the next few
years as more and more of these young people become renowned
scientist, academics and professors with PhDs as we move ahead
with greater success. Thank you very much.
Mr M JOHNSON: Deputy President I thank you for that
comprehensive response to a very pertinent question that talks
to development in this country. My follow-up question relates
more to an experience in India through government initiatives
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and directives. A million of IT specialists are trained and that
skill is exported outside India.
Whether is our government able to direct universities in saying
a particular number of engineers or economists are required in a
particular year, given the fact that government is subsidising a
great deal of these colleges and universities? Whether as
government given the shortages of skills that we talk about from
time to time and artisans, are we able to say we require this
particular number of skills or engineers or any such in any
particular given point in time?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: It remains a personal dream and wish that
one day we should be able to make a clear target of the number
of engineers we would like to see coming out of our
universities, number of scientists and technology specialists
and all that and I think that day is soon coming when we will
put a clear target and say we want to see 10 000 engineers
coming out of our universities within a period say of four or
five years.
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What India has been able to achieve stands out as a great
example or lesson for all of us. As you correctly say, they are
now able to export well trained technologists either in IT and
Engineering and Science. China is another great example and
indeed a number of other countries and this has happened because
they have invested a lot of resources, time and effort in
ensuring that they produce these types of graduates.
We are doing exactly the same. We are investing a lot of time
and effort. Today, we have almost a million young people in our
universities and we have got 715 000 young people in our
Technical and Vocational Education and Training, TVET, colleges.
Now, if you look at what we had in the past, this is
unprecedented.
Our universities, as I said, are now producing well trained
graduates. Yes, the numbers may not be as high as we want them
to be, but they are creeping up and they are going up on an
ongoing basis and I am sure that we will be able to reach that
stage when we will be able to set targets and meet those
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targets. We have it within us. We have the capability to be able
to do so. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
The SPEAKER: Hon Mbabama. This is a DA Member of Parliament.
Ms T M MBABAMA: Excuse me, Madam Speaker.
The SPEAKER: No.
Ms T M MBABAMA: I think there is a fault with my system. It was
flicking when we got here. We are just trying to get the
attention of somebody to come and look at it.
The SPEAKER: Okay, no, that is fine.
The SPEAKER: Hon Msibi.
Mr N M KHUBISA: Hon Speaker?
The SPEAKER: Hon Msibi.
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Mr N M KHUBISA: Yes.
The SPEAKER: It is okay, NFP, yes.
Mr N M KHUBISA: Yes, Speaker. Hon Deputy President, we have to
escalate even further, because we are in a quest for skills
development and in 2014, the President of the Republic said in
his state of the nation address that, we will expand the number
of internship positions in the public sector with every
government department and public entity being required to take
interns for experiential learning.
He further spoke of employment tax incentive scheme that the
private sector had responded to positively. Now, I want to ask a
question that, what is it that has been done to ensure that more
youth get into this internship, over and above getting degrees,
because this is what we need as well. I am basing my question on
the understanding that just recently about 58 000 students
applied for National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, but
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their applications were rejected. I think that their spirits
were really dampened.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Madam Speaker, I can testify to the fact
that many of our government entities do take on interns and put
young people on learnerships. We have close to 750 state-owned
enterprises and many of those do offer internships and
learnerships to young people.
But, in our collaborations with the private sector, we have been
able to get the private sector to agree and we are finalising
the agreements to employ up to a million young people in
internships into formal programmes of internships and
learnerships over a three-year period.
My own wish is to have them do one and a half million, but we
are still talking about that, but that is going to offer young
people a great opportunity to get into the world of work and
learn about work and thereafter the one year, they will be in
much better position to be able to get employment and in most
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case we find that, those young people who get into learnerships
do often get absorbed by those companies that gives them those
opportunities, because those who are top flyers are able to
demonstrate to employers that, yes, they should be employed. So,
we are hoping and wishing that many of those 1 million young
people will be brought in.
Now, if you look across the landscape of the South African
economy you will find that even private companies of their own
volition are taking on young people. So, you have private
sector, public sector and you even have government ministries
that take on young people on learnerships. So, you have
Ministries, state owned enterprises and lots of private sector
companies.
So, already there is a huge cohort of young people that are
being brought into learnerships and those who have not had the
opportunity will now have the opportunity. Up to 350 000 of them
in a year right across the length and the breadth of the country
will have that opportunity which we are creating.
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We want much more than that and in fact, whenever we meet the
private sector, we challenge them to go just beyond a certain
small percentage and inform them that it is to our countries
great benefit if they are going to absorb all these young people
into learnerships. Learnerships have proven to have great
efficacy in giving young people the skills that they need. Thank
you very much.
IsiXhosa:
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Ucofe ngempazamo, Somlomo, utsho.
English:
The SPEAKER: This was the hon Holomisa of the UDM. Okay.
Ms S NKOMO: Good afternoon, Deputy President. Can we do
beneficiary or benefication in this country if we don‟t have the
skills of production, for an example, the Medupi power station,
we had to bring in skilled welders from other countries because
South Africans welders lacked the required skills? Would you
agree that South Africa seems to be more obsessed with tertiary
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qualifications rather than artisan skill development and this
obsession is costing us heavily?
Tshivenḓa:
Mufarisa Muphuresidennde: Ndi masiari. Ndi livhuwa na mbudziso
yavho.
English:
The Deputy President: I would like to say that we are seeing a
great deal of improvement in the take up of artisan training by
young people, particularly those who go to our TVET colleges and
some even get that type of training in community colleges. I
wouldn‟t say that we should be dismissive of the type of
training that young people are getting in this regard.
The TVET colleges are actually beginning to record great success
in that. They are beginning to do a balance between theoretical
learning and practical learning and that gives young people the
opportunity to delve into the practical world of work and to
also learn real skills and some of them are actually taking up
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artisanship and learning crafts that they become certificated
for after sometime.
Admittedly, we should say that we don‟t have too many of these
great opportunities to give young people the artisan training
skills but they are increasing. The Minister of Higher Education
is under a great deal of pressure, because he has found that he
needs to be building TVET colleges maybe one every week and the
budgetary constraints are holding him back, because it is at the
TVET colleges that young people are able to pick these skills up
and we are hoping that there will be more and more of these.
Now, the lesson that we learned with Medupi, for instance, did
in many ways give us a wake up call that we didn‟t have those
highly specialised welders. We are training welders now in our
country and not only ordinary welders, but your high-tech
welders are now being trained here.
So, in effect, we are learning from the experience of other
countries and bringing in people from various other countries is
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also a great boon for us, because we utilise the skills that
they have to transfer them to us, for instance, we have a number
of motor mechanics from Cuba, who are in this country and they
are transferring real skills, because in Cuba they still use the
1950s models and if you can repair a 1950s car you can repair
anything. So, those skills are being transferred to us.
Now, if you have ever tried to be a mechanic like I have, you
will know that it is of great benefit to use an older car to
learn your craft, so that you can utilise it on newer cars. So,
the Cubans are teaching us a lot of skills and we are learning a
lot of other skills from many other nations. Thank you very
much.
Mr S C MOTAU: Deputy President, with regard to reference to
working with the private sector, the characterisation of the
private sector as some kind of evil monster, the so-called white
monopoly capital frequently expressed by some in the ANC and
yesterday we saw and heard hon Pule Mabe do exactly that and
South African Communist Party, SACP, and Congress of South
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African Trade Unions, COSATU, can‟t be helpful to the government
efforts to facilitate skills development partnerships with the
private sector. We had Minister Pravin Gordhan yesterday warn
against this. What impact does this fashionable vilification of
the private sector have on the government effort to achieve the
NDP‟s goal of facilitating economic growth through skills
development, staunch unemployment and promote job creation?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, our co-operation with the
private sector in trying to get their support to help with the
skills revolution in our country goes beyond utilisation of the
type of terms that you are referring to and they are much more
matured, much more visionary than what you have tried to
describe them as. They know the challenge that is at hand and
they are fully aware that they need to work with government and
co-operate with us and in fact COSATU, and a number of other
organisation in the labour side, Federation of Unions of South
Africa, FEDUSA, National Council of Trade Unions, NACTU, are
deeply involved in discussions with the private sector when it
comes to training young people.
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They sit in forums with government, private sector, among
themselves and community based organisations to address
precisely this issue. People are not hamstrung and held back by
terms such as radical economic transformation and in fact, they
find that it describes the challenge and the problems so
accurately that they want to be part of the process of radically
bringing about changes in our country.
So, much as you may think that this scares them off and
terrifies them, I think they are much more matured than that and
I think you should credit them with a little bit of more
intelligence than you do. Thank you very much.
Question 8:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, there are several factors
that contribute to civil unrests and disturbances in our
country. We have witnessed some of these ugly things at various
times over the past few years. The problems of violence that is
driven by xenophobia, violent protest as well as gangsterism,
usually manifest in an environment of widespread poverty, high
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unemployment and stark inequality in our country. They are
exacerbated by geographical dislocation, poor social services
and competition for scares resources.
Government responds to these challenges is therefore
multifacetted and multiproblems as many of us will have seen.
The response involves not only the organs of state, but has also
gained the active co-operation of a number of other role-players
in our country at civil society level, various forums there and
structures, faith-based organisations, community groupings as
well as some individuals in our society.
This approach is well demonstrated in government‟s national
strategy against gangsterism, which was approved by Cabinet just
recently. In developing the strategy, government undertook a
diagnostic process, which confirmed that gangsterism is rooted
in socioeconomic conditions and is therefore not merely just a
law enforcement issue.
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The strategy places communities at the centre of all the efforts
that we are seeking to take as government. It aims to empower
communities by addressing human development issues, social
cohesion issues and also to address unemployment and issues such
as poverty and inequality. It prioritises social partnerships,
which we should engender in our communities, particularly with
civil society, the private sector and other stakeholders. It
aims to prevent these challenges that we face through improved
spatial design and creating safe living spaces for our people.
These strategies will be implemented alongside effective law
enforcement strategies, upholding the rule of law and
maintaining the integrity of the efficacy of our criminal
justice system.
As you may know, a comprehensive intersectoral implementation
plan for the strategy has been finalised, engagement with social
partners is underway and a similar approach is also been taken
to respond to the xenophobic violence that we have been seeing.
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This requires interventions at a policy level through community
engagement and through crime combating and prevention methods
and guided by the Inter-Ministerial Committee on Migration,
which is chaired by my colleague, Minister Jeff Radebe. A
multipronged strategy is currently underway. South Africa‟s
immigration and refugee policy is also being reviewed. The
better management of refugees through amongst other things, the
establishment of asylum processing centres that will be closer
to the northern border of our country is being explored.
Another area is the development of an integration policy for
foreign nationals living legally in South Africa and ongoing
sustained dialogue with representatives of the leaders of
communities that come from outside the country.
We have also utilised other fairly effective interventions such
as Operation Fiela, which has done very well to reduce the
levels of criminality in various challenged areas, and as we do
all these, we as South Africans must stand united against all
form of criminal behaviour, racism, sexism and xenophobia. We
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must ensure that all the people regardless of where they come
from are treated with dignity and respect. Thank you.
[Applause.]
Rev K R J MESHOE: Speaker, Deputy President, recent reports of
xenophobia, farm murders, gang and drug related violence seems
to indicate that government has failed in its attempt to restore
social cohesion in the country.
The intensity of hatred and brutality of some of the attacks on
foreign nationals, farmers and their workers, such as the
stories we hear of victims being tortured with cigarettes, blow
torches and hot irons are truly disturbing and frightening. Even
helpless 95-year-old grandmothers are not spared. They are raped
and strangled with telephone cords and killed in their own homes
as has happened this past week in Port Elizabeth.
Would the Deputy President then agree that government‟s effort
to encourage, particularly social cohesion are failing because
government has departed from prioritising reconciliation and
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nation building that has been initiated and spearheaded by the
late President Nelson Mandela? If the Deputy President does not
agree, could he expand on other possible reasons for this
apparent failure as evidence by increasing contact crimes? Thank
you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I sought in my earlier answer to give a
fairly detailed explanation of the efforts that are being made
by government to address precisely these challenges. I cannot
agree that government has failed in its effort and task to
promote and foster social cohesion in our country.
We continue to deal with this matter as a priority and indeed,
the various programmes and interventions that we are embarking
on, on an ongoing basis are aimed at precisely promoting social
cohesion.
So, I will disagree with you, hon Meshoe, my good Rev on this
issue. I think if you look very closely and carefully, you will
find that, indeed, the South African government has often gone
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out of its way to promote social cohesion. Admittedly, we face
enormous challenges. I would say, no more challenges than many
other countries do, but in our case, especially so, because when
it comes to issues that impact on xenophobia, we have become an
oasis that many people from various other countries face and
when you interpose that on the challenges that we face as a
nation in relation to poverty, inequality and unemployment,
there is always a conflict that will arise and the government is
always there to mediate that and to address it.
Where these challenges flair up in forms of violence, the
government acting obviously together with other role-players is
always on hand to lead the charge, and of course we are
eternally grateful to faith-based organisations, the type of
organisation at the church level that you lead also plays a key
role. So, for that I am able to stand here in Parliament and
thank you for the role that you played as a Rev of the church,
man of the cloth. We thank you for assisting in this regard. We
would call upon you to continue doing so because this is a
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collective task. It‟s not the government‟s task alone. Thank you
very much, Rev. [Applause.]
Mr C T MSIMANG: I am glad hon Deputy President that the
government recognises so many social measures that could be used
or are being used to correct anti-social behaviour in our
communities. I am saying this because I do have the fear that in
South Africa, we turn to be overlegislated. We seem to think
that any deviant behaviour must be corrected by legislation.
My own view is that these social measures are more effective.
Therefore, the government should invest more on these measures,
then on legislation. I wonder if the Deputy President agrees
with me. Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, I am delighted to hear that
the hon member is pleased to see that the government has
embarked and continues to embark on these social measures and
interventions to address these challenges.
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I would agree with him that indeed these social measures and
interventions often have a far greater impact than utilising the
strong arm of the law. We have proven that to be the case.
That‟s why even our strategy on fighting the scourge of
gangsterism is pivoted around building partnerships, going into
communities and through this you will see members of the SA
Police Service acting together with other arms of government
going into communities, having detailed or in-depth discussions
with members of the communities where gangsterism has become a
huge problem.
Indeed, it is not only around gangsterism, also on xenophobia,
we are moving inch by inch, house to house, street by street, to
various communities because it has been proven over and over
that it is through social engagement that we are able to address
key social challenges. I am glad that you so recognised this. We
would invite you and your party to participate in all these so
that we work together. Even if you smile away, I would say,
let‟s hold hands together so that we address these challenges.
Thank you very much. [Applause.]
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Mr N L S KWANKWA: Deputy President, the question centers around
the xenophobic violence that you have seen over the past few
weeks over in the country, and in particular, if one reads the
African Peer Review Mechanism Report, 2007, it highlights an
important issue. It talks about the unfair competition between
undocumented and illegal migrants in the country and South
Africans in the labour market. Why have you not addressed that
problem as government is the first question?
The second question which is also related to that and is part of
the main question is that: Has government not dropped the ball
in terms of conflict resolution and management in Africa because
that is another way of dealing proactively with the influx of
people that come into the country? Just closing the porous
borders for instance, is not going to solve the problem alone;
it means it needs to be managed proactively at the strategic
level. Thank you so much.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker and hon Kwankwa, we continue
to be involved in this whole issue of migration. The structure
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that is headed by Minister Jeff Radebe is addressing precisely
this and is a multidisciplinary structure in which various
Ministries or departments are represented. They are looking
precisely at this issue of undocumented foreign nationals who
come to our country. We are becoming very proactive and
compassionate in dealing with them. That is why we have been
looking very closely at setting up these reception centres
closer to our northern border so that at the point of reception,
we are able to process them to be able to distinguish those who
have documents and those who don‟t and also processing them to
find out precisely what has brought them to the shores of our
country.
So, that we are doing and with regard to conflict resolution
processes, we continue to be engaged. We are the one country
that is relied upon by our peers on the African continent to be
the country that you go to for help, assistance and support. We
are giving a lot of support to our neighbours, but beyond our
neighbours to other countries on the African continent.
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You mentioned that word South African people, it often conjures
up in people‟s minds, support, assistance, a friend, a brother
and a sister. That is what it brings up in many people‟s minds.
We will continue with this process because it is through
building peace on the African continent that we will be able to
show that more and more of our countries on the continent do
become successful to a point where many of their own citizens do
not see the need to traverse borders of various countries to
come to one single country. Thank you very much.
Ms Z N MBHELE: Deputy President, in your first response you
mentioned law enforcement and the rule of law. So, I think you
will agree that in order to have social cohesion and less
unrests, we need good relations between the police and
communities and a more effective police service. Where these
relations breakdown, vigilantism can erupt, which weakens that
cohesion. Where the police service is understaffed and
underresourced, which is pretty much everywhere, it cannot work
to contain the violence that accompanies some protests and all
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xenophobic attacks. This violence escalates and spread and that
in turn undermines cohesion.
So, Deputy President, what will you do, specifically to enforce
the accountability of police Minister Nhleko, for ensuring the
effectiveness of the police through better training and
resourcing at station level to fix crime intelligence and
detective services and to better capacitate Public Order
Policing?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, Minister Nhleko, works within
the broad parameters of the governing party‟s policy. The policy
approach is to have a SA Police Service that works in terms of
law enforcement that works together with the community. That is
why we rely so heavily on Community Policing Forums.
In a number of places in our country, this work very well. In
some cases, there are challenges, challenges that we are well
aware of, challenges that we are seeking to address. It is only
through the police working together with communities, with
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community leaders and various structures in our communities that
policing and adherence to law and order is heightened and
becomes a lot better.
Admittedly, yes, the police in our country are overstretched.
The task they have at hand is huge. They, themselves know that
they can never do it alone. They can only do it effectively if
they work together with the communities and various structures
in communities. What the police need is more support, more
understanding and more help. That‟s precisely what we ought to
be giving the members of our police service.
So, Minister Nhleko is very strong on this. He knows that the
success of his task, the success of policing in our country can
best be executed when we work together or when the police work
together with various other role players in communities. It is
at community level that we will be able to win this challenge
even more.
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In places where, for instance, gangsterism has become rife, we
find that success is reached when the community hold hands with
the police and they together root out gangsters in a way where
they close spaces for them to operate. In the end, gangsters in
some cases realised that they have no way else to run. It also
happens with drug peddlers and dealers. So, it is through
community action and police vigilance that we will be able to
gain a lot of success. Thank you very much.
The SPEAKER: Hon members, before we proceed to the next
question, I wish to deal with a matter that has arisen, which
has been brought to my attention by the hon M G Buthelezi. In
the sitting of the state of the nation address evening, in
reference to the hon Buthelezi, I use the words, and I quote:
“nant‟ikhehla”.
The hon member has indicated to me that he found these words
disparaging and offensive. Hon Buthelezi, please accept my
apology. As I indicated before, it was never my intention to
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offend or show disrespect to you. I thank you for your
attention, hon members.
We have been writing to each other – myself and hon Buthelezi.
That‟s why I know what he said he ... I wrote a letter of
apology and explained that these words were not meant
disrespectfully. He responded to me and gave me a fatherly
advice, which I have taken. I thank you all. [Applause.]
Mr M M DLAMINI: Speaker, on a point of order.
Mr M M DLAMINI: Let me allow a ... [Interjections.]
Prince M G BUTHELEZI: Hon Speaker, hon Minister and Deputy
Ministers and hon Members of the House, I would like to thank
the hon Speaker for wiping that off from the record because
amakhehla were actually people that the King of the Zulus from
time to time would give them rings bakhehle so that they will be
called amakhehla when they were supposed to get married because
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they were not allowed to marry before the king said so.
[Laughter.]
Over time the word has been used by some people derogatorily. I
realise, hon Speaker that I am old, which is a blessing from the
Almighty God and I don‟t resent that, it is a blessing. The
worse zulu curse that any one can utter is to say, so and so‟s
son will never carry the white shield.
IsiZulu:
Umfana kabani uziphatha kanje, angeke asiphathe isihlangu
esimhlophe.
English:
Meaning that you will never have the grey hair, which is always
a blessing for those people who have exceeded the 70 years that
are actually given to us by God.
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So, that is why I am out of fashion because I am very proud. I
don‟t have to peel off my hair to hide my white hair or my old
head as it is fashionable now. [Laughter.]
So, I have highest respect for you, Madam Speaker, and highest
respect for every Member of the House, hon Ministers or ordinary
members like myself. I am just grateful. I can just tell you a
small amidiot. You know Dr Zami Conco, he chaired Kliptown
Congress in Kliptown. He was the Deputy Leader of the ANC in the
province of Natal as it was.
He told me that when they were young, Madam Speaker, there was
an old man, when they are heading cattle, they will say ...
IsiZulu:
... nant‟ ikhehla, nant‟ ikhehla.
English:
He says then the old man will say ...
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IsiZulu:
... ngangikhehlezwa ngonyoko yini? [Uhleko.]
English:
So, quiet often when people to use this word, I always say they
must tell me at what sport ...
IsiZulu:
... lapho ngangikhehlezwa khona ngunina. [Uhleko.]
English:
Thanks very much, Madam. [Applause.]
Mr M M DLAMINI: On a point of order, Speaker.
The SPEAKER: What‟s the point of order, hon member?
Mr M M DLAMINI: We were number three on that list, Speaker. You
just decided not to communicate with us.
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The SPEAKER: No, hon member, you were not number three.
[Interjections.]
Mr M M DLAMINI: Hon Matiase.
The SPEAKER: No, hon, no, you were not on the list or definitely
not number three.
Mr M M DLAMINI: But you can confirm ... [Inaudible.]
The SPEAKER: No, you were not. I work with the Table here.
Mr M M DLAMINI: That means this gentleman is misleading us
because he confirmed.
The SPEAKER: No, hon member, please just take your seat now.
Question 9:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, the development indicators on
social cohesion point to some progress in spite of us being such
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a deeply divided society as pronounced by the National Planning
Commission when it prepared the National Development Plan, NDP.
These indicators, includes the role of civil society, the
participation of citizens in elections, views on race relations
and also pride in being the South African.
The promotion of our common identity, as well as accepting our
differences is key to nation-building and social cohesion. For
an example, the percentage of people in our country, who see
themselves as South Africans or Africans, first before any other
identity has increased from 71% in 2004 to 87% in 2014. Many
areas of the government‟s work contribute to nation-building and
bonding our country together.
This includes improving the material conditions of all South
Africans so that they share in a common sense of ownership and
belonging. Since 1994, we have seen tremendous progress in our
country. I was also overjoyed to read the report of the SA
Institute of Race Relations, SAIRR, which is called, Life in
South Africa - Reasons for Hope.
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It is indicated in that report that it is about the things that
have gone right in South Africa and the report features a
selection of the socioeconomic successes we have achieved as a
country and as a nation. It also states that, in many ways, life
in South Africa has become better, to a point of contributing to
nation-building.
They also say that some people would think that the report is
rather a strange one, but amidst the turmoil that many people
would often talk about, when the analysts look at our country,
they see a story of a young democracy that has made a vast
amount of progress in fields ranging from the economy,
employment, living standards, the reduction of poverty,
education, education, health care and crime.
The report says that this is not captured in the screening news
paper headlines, but the substantive progress we have made as a
country since the end of apartheid is a story of hope amid the
change we have been making as the country. When I read this
report on the SAIRR, which is a very thorough organisation when
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it comes to doing proper analysis on our condition, I was rather
pleased to see that there are people who look at us as the
country and people, and they can see that indeed, we have made a
progress.
The progress that we have made, has clearly contributed to
increasing and enhancing nation-building and also engendering
social cohesion. We have built millions of houses, we have made
electricity accessible to many more people and many more of our
children are at schools and universities. In fact, one of the
greatest successes is that we now have more than universal
access when it comes to basic education. Now, that is the
greatest successes that we have achieved ...
IsiXhosa:
... ewe, siyaqhuba, siqhubeleka phambili ...
English:
... and that is the great benefit. The significant progress has
also been made in lifting our people out of poverty and through
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creating jobs in a growing economy. When the ruling party got
into office, we only had 7,4 million people in South Africa who
worked, today we have 16 million people who work. The
unemployment remains a challenge, but we have been creating jobs
on an ongoing basis.
The great challenge is that we had many more job seekers who
have been coming into the market. As we ended the year last
year, Stats SA tells us that we have created 235 000 jobs. That
in itself is a great success. We have also created a number of
structures that are meant to enhance nation-building, engendered
social cohesion and we passed quite a number of laws.
So, there is a lot that we can be grateful for, that we have
done in a very practical way to enhance nation-building and also
engendering social cohesion. The moral regeneration movement
that we set up has held various campaigns to popularise what is
called a charter of positive values about our country. The
Department of Basic Education has embarked on a number of other
initiatives on a process to evaluate things like to encourage
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young people to learn about racism, sexism and also, to be more
tolerant.
Nation-building is by its nature an ongoing process. While the
government has a leading role to play in it, it is ultimately
the responsibility of every social movement, every social
institution, company, organisation and indeed, every family to
build a society in which all the people of our country can share
a common sense of nationhood.
In this regard, South Africa is emerging as a nation and all of
us have got a role to play in making us a true South African
nation. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Ms H H MALGAS: Speaker, let me first thank the Deputy President
for a positive response. But a number of things come to mind. As
the individuals, we are socialised, we acquire knowledge,
language, social skills and values to conform to the norms and
roles required for integration into community.
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It is evident that, because you were speaking to certain things
in the way we think as the individuals; the way we perceive
things; the way we relate to others; being empathetic;
understanding and sympathetic to another perspective. Even
parenthood, like you said, and the institutions like education
and churches, influence individuals in different ways.
You also spoke about South Africa as being divided. Therefore,
Mr Deputy President, do you think that it is important to start
with the individuals? I would like you to speak to the
individuals on the ground, the way you are doing. But take that
further where everything begins, to enhance nation-building and
social cohesion. I thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, I agree that it is important to
talk about the individuals. But in the end, it is the
individuals who make up families, communities and a nation.
Obviously, the starting point has to be the individuals. But
also, it is important in this regard to start with our children
who at a fairly young age need to be imbued with the principles
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of nation-building and the great values that needs to be
imparted to them.
It is also important for them to be exposed to the preamble of
our Constitution and also to the values that are enshrined in
our Constitution. That includes the concepts such as tolerance,
equality, and respect for one another. It is only when the South
Africans have respect for one another, that our level of
consciousness will rise to the point where we know that South
Africa is a home to all of us and that South Africa is about
nonracial, being equal, nonsexist and also about being a nation
with diverse people who are from different cultures, language
groups and people who are united by their South Africaness.
The common thread that unites all of us as South Africans is
that we are human and that we are South Africans. The rest of
other things follow thereafter. So, it is important that this
level of consciousness should be heightened and that it should
cascade from the family into the community. It is at family
level that the values of integrity, respect, tolerance,
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nonracism, nonsexism should be taught in our own homes and be
lived, so that they then flow outside into the community and in
the society where we all live. That is how we build nations and
that is how in the end we will be successful and a winning
nations. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Prof N M KHUBISA: Madam Speaker and Deputy President, it is
clear that we still have a myriad of these historical and
structural inequalities. They manifest themselves in a number of
ways, in power relations and also in education. Our people don‟t
have access to land, property, etc. So, these are the matters
that must be taken into cognizance when we deal with the issues
of social cohesion and nation-building.
Now, I can narrate a story, Deputy President that, in the early
eighties, for instance, a female teacher who had M+3 with a
Diploma was getting far lesser than a male teacher who had an
Honours Degree. I want to ask you, weather in a way of nationbuilding, how far has the government progressed by way of
ensuring that we have more women in the private and also in the
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public sectors, who occupy leadership and management positions?
Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, the issue of equality between men
and women, is a very important one to the government, more
particularly, the empowerment of women because of their gender.
They have always carried the burden of being oppressed; being
black and being women. So, they need to be empowered in an
exponential manner and they need to be focused on.
That is precisely what the government has committed itself to
doing. If you have listened to the President‟s state of the
nation speeches, he‟s often come out very strongly on that. That
is why we even have a Ministry in the government that just
focuses on the empowerment of women as well as girl children. In
the private sector, yes, there has been a progress, but it
hasn‟t been great. These can be gleaned from the various reports
that are also given by the Ministry of women. A great deal of
progress still needs to be made in the private sector.
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In the government, a lot of progress has been recorded. If you
look at us as the Parliament, we are one of those Parliaments
that can be proud that we do have a fair number of women
representations, but more particularly, on the side of the
governing party, we have recorded much more progress than the
others.
The progress still needs to be made. In the government
positions, we still need to make more progress. We are also
continuing to focus on the issue of empowerment of women. This
is the project that must succeed; it is a project that must be
moved forward because, as a nation, we need to be benefiting
from the talent, the capability and from the work that can be
done by women. In most cases, they are even a lot better than
men. So, I think that we need to focus on the empowerment of
women. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr M M DLAMINI: Madam Chair, Deputy President, all of us agree
in South Africa, both black and white, that nation-building is
the most important project that we should embark on as a nation.
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But we also agree that nation destruction in this country was
orchestrated by the white apartheid government. At the centre of
that, was the forceful removal of black people from their own
land. Now, your President, Mr Zuma, has several times said that
all of us, the black parties must accelerate the Amendment of
Section 25 of the Constitution so that, we can speed up the
issue of the land.
The Chief Whip of your party, Mr Jackson Mthembu, has said on
twitter that your caucus has made a mistake by trying to hide
behind the Constitution, and that they should have agreed with
us. The Deputy Minister of Public Service and Administration
under your party, Ms Ayanda Dlodlo, did not even come to
Parliament, because she believes that we should have amended
Section 25 of the Constitution. Your President has said,
regardless of whether it‟s an ANC policy or not that we must
accelerate the Amendment of Section 25 of the Constitution.
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Do you then support the call that we must amend Section 25 of
the Constitution and expropriate land without compensation as
part of showing that we are serious about nation-building?
The SPEAKER: Hon member, your time for a supplementary question
has long expired.
Mr M M DLAMINI: I have asked, but I can repeat the question. Hon
member, do you support that call?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, the same question was asked last
week and it seems like, hon Shivambu is indicating with his
finger that it is going to be asked on an ongoing basis forever,
and so forth. I think that the issue of land is very important,
and we have said so. We are on the record as saying that the
issue of land is very important and should be seen as being
important to all the South Africans.
There was a great injustice done against the black majority in
our country. That goes without question. If you were to ask,
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every Member of Parliament sitting here who is black, they would
be able to tell personal stories of how, in their own families,
through their own forebears, they were forcibly moved from the
land they were born in. I experienced it twice in my family, in
my mother‟s family side and where I grew up. It happened when we
were moved in 1962. That goes without saying. So, all of us have
experienced it.
What we are called to do as a Parliament is to approach this
matter, which has been raised not only by the EFF, by the way.
It has been raised by all in sundry. When you hear the President
speaking on this matter, he‟s speaking from a deep seated pain
that is felt by all black people in our country. As we feel this
pain, we must then find solutions on how we are going to deal
with this historical injustice.
In dealing with it, it is not going to be sufficient in just
pronouncing slogans. We‟ve got to find practical ways of dealing
with this issue. Yes! Admittedly, amending the Constitution is
one of the strategies, but it is by no means the only one.
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Implementing what we‟ve got in our Constitution is also another
strategy, and doing a whole number of things are strategies that
we should utilise. [Applause.]
So, you must never sit there and say that you have the monopoly
of the truth and everything that is correct. We all feel the
pain! You don‟t feel the pain of land deprivation more than
anyone else sitting on this side. We feel it the same way!
[Applause.] Let me promise you one thing, the commitment that is
on this side of the House, is so deep and so thorough. We are
going to solve this problem! Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: I am standing on a point of order, hon Speaker!
Point of order, hon Speaker!
The SPEAKER: What is your point of order, hon Shivambu?
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: The Rules of this House demands that when you
ask questions they must be responded to. But the Deputy
President has just waffled now and said that, it‟s either this
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or that. We are asking if he supports expropriation of land
without compensation or not? He must respond to that. It‟s a
simple question!
The SPEAKER: No, hon Shivambu, that‟s not a point of order!
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: When we get the response, we‟ll know where he
is standing!
The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, take your seat!
Ms H BUCWA: Deputy President I just want to take you back and I
agree that indeed, the Constitution has a direct bearing in
social cohesion. Through its preamble, we acknowledge the
injustices of the past. It also gives us assurance that South
Africa belongs to all those who live in it. Now, the President
is tasked with a role to unify and reconcile all South Africans.
However, the recent utterances of the President have been rather
divisive, and one can never argue that they have been racist.
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Now, how then do we move forward with leaders such as him?
[Applause.]
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I don‟t know in what respect has the
President‟s utterances in this have been divisive. What the
President was saying was that, this problem needs to be
resolved, and those political formations that are sitting in
this Parliament that are progressive, that have radical intent,
are the ones that he was talking about. He was not seeking to
divide.
If the dividing line is going to be conservative or be
progressive, that‟s what then will divide you from what is the
truth. I think that we should admit that on this side sits the
progressive of this House, and I would say, maybe around there.
I think that we must admit what the DA stands for, it is
conservatism. That‟s what you stand for! So, that is the
dividing line between the two. So, the President was not being
racist, he was just really talking. That‟s real politics! If you
ever wanted to know, what politics is all about?
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Question 10:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, I could say that I am rather
fortunate in terms of - I could have pleaded for right not to
answer this question because a member of the Leader of the
Opposition, Hon Steenhuisen, answered this question for me very
adequately last week. He quoted from the Constitution and said:
In terms of the Constitution members of the Cabinet are
accountable collectively and individually to Parliament for
the exercise of their powers and the performance of their
functions.
That is enshrined in section 92(2) of the Constitution.
However, the Constitution goes further to say, “members of the
Cabinet must provide Parliament with full and regular reports
concerning matters under their control.” On a practical level,
this matter of ensuring that Members of Parliament do all that
is set out in the Constitution, is really a matter that is
executed despite what the Joint Rules say about the Lleader of
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Ggovernment Bbusiness. I should say that the National Assembly
and Parliament haves much more overriding powers than the
Lleader of Ggovernment Bbusiness would ever have because here we
are talking about what the Constitution sets out.
The Constitution gives us, as the Parliament, the power to make
members of the executive accountable to us as a collective. The
office that is here in Parliament, which accounts to the
Speaker, is an office that should make all those arrangements to
which the hon Leader of the Opposition was talking about.
What I can say is that the executive remains committed to
ensuring that, as a collective, it remains committed to account
regularly and effectively to Parliament. Cabinet receives a
regular report on these matters on an ongoing basis and where
problems are identified, steps are taken to address these
problems. Now, here as Parliament, we are entitled, Leader of
the Opposition, hon Maimane, to use the collective power that we
have to make the members of the executive sitting here to
account.
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If they don‟t come and if they don‟t account, the Parliament has
the power to make them account by, usinge the Constitution. It
is the Constitution that should be utilised and you have that
power that is clearly set out in the Constitution. You are the
people who always refer to the Constitution. Use your
Constitution; read it every night; love your Constitution; and,
utilise it effectively because it is your shield and your
weapon. Thank you very much.
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy President, 17 million South
Africans are sitting at home today wondering whether or not at
the end of this month they will be able to receive their social
grants. The respective Minister that we are talking about came
to this particular House, and even in her appearance ats Scopa,
she refused to answer questions. In her appearance in a press
conference, she refused to answer questions. She is now, the
very same Minister, going to the Constitutional Court to request
that they extend the contract that the Constitutional Court
found was, in fact, illegal a number of years ago. There is a
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point, as South Africans Deputy President, that we must stand on
the side of the South Africans who are poor.
I am here to pledge and urge you to say stand with the South
Africans who are waiting at home waiting for social grants.
Would you support the call to say that Minister Bathabile
Dlamini should, in fact, resign over this crisis over social
grant because it is your South Africa? [Applause.]
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Maimane, this matter is being dealt
with. [Interjections.] The Constitutional Court - if you will
not listen to me, listen to what the Constitutional Court is
seeking to do - is dealing with this matter as they did. They
are dealing with this matter effectively. The Minister or the
Ministry has approached the court with a particular prayer. It
is up to the Constitutional Court, this very High Court, in
fact, the highest court in our land; a court that is so well
endowed with wise brains and wise minds is going to deliberate
on this matter as they did in the past and they are going to
make a ruling.
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Now, given the time frame that we have to the end of the month,
I am absolutely certain that the court is going to pull out all
stops and deal with this matter with the level of urgency that
it requires. Let us allow the institution that has been put in
place to deal with this matter to deal with it. At the same
time, let us allow the department and the Ministry to deal with
this matter. It is a matter of enormous proportions. Mmany of
our people are concerned. However,but the matter has been dealt
with, and I am absolutely certain that a solution is going to be
found. Thank you very much.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker ...
The SPEAKER: Yes, hon Steenhuisen, what is the point on which
you are rising?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, the point is
that that is not the question of the hon Maimane asked. He asked
the Deputy President whether he supported the call for the
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Minister, Bathabile Dlamini, to resign. That was the question.
[Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Steenhuisen, please take your seat.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: You have a duty to protect the
minority parties in this House. That is why we cannot hold
anybody accountable in this House because she does not know the
Constitution. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Steenhuisen, please take your seat. Hon ShaikEmam, is he here? He is not around.
IsiZulu:
Mnu M HLENGWA: Ngiyathokoza ukucosha ithuba mhlonishwa Somlomo.
English:
Hon Deputy President, as a member of Scopa I want to assure you
that on Tuesday we left none the wiser after the Minister had
addressed us. There was no sense of a direction, leadership and
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accountability. Hon Deputy, notwithstanding that here is the
question which I think is at the foremost of our minds. Why is
the Department of Social Development and government by extension
pursuingpersuading a Siamese Twins relationship with Cash
Payment Services, CPS, which is a corrupt company, a bunch of
looters, crooks and criminals of the highest order who have
facilitated illegal deductions of these social grants and all
sorts of manner many of those things?
The President speaks about radical economic transformation., CPS
is owned, American owned, Australian owned., Wwhere does it fit
in when the Minister to putsget R3,2 billion plus into the
agenda of radical economic transformation, taking money here and
going abroad?. It seems as if government is speaking from both
sides of its mouth and I would plead with you today to provide
clarity to us ...
IsiZulu:
... nathandana kangaka no-CPS.
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English:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, I am sorry that when Scopa
met with the Minister, what you saidy ensued. , tThe matter, as
I said, hasis beingbeen dealt with. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order!
IsiZulu:
USEKELA MONGAMELI: Loku kuthandana kwe-CPS nabantu laba
obabalulayo ngempela angikwazi. Angikwazi ngempela ...
English:
... but is a matter that is being addressed. I think what
should be foremost in our minds, right now, is that a solution
should be found to address the challenge that we have at hand.
As I said, the Constitutional Court has now entered the scene on
this matter and itthe matter is now being dealt with at the
highest level of the Constitutional Court and of government as
well. That matter should be given time to be resolved as it will
be resolved; as it must be resolved because there is just no
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other way other than to resolve itthis matter. Thank you very
much.
Dr B H HOLOMISA: Hon Madam Speaker, Deputy President, as the
Lleader of the Ggovernment Bbusiness, the performance of
Minister Dlamini has gone beyond undermining the National
Assembly to include the Constitutional Court,. thusThat„s
bringing the executive and the country into disrepute. Would you
advise the Presidency to consider evaluating the fitness to hold
office and any other executive position?
IsiXhosa:
Ikwa ngulo mama owathi xa sasibuza ukuba kutheni kutsalwa imali
zamaxhegwazana ngelithi ahlawulela i-airtime, wathi uyayiphanda
loo nto.
English:
Yet, it is part of the agreement with CPS.
IsiXhosa:
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Sicela usicende mhlekazi ngalu hlolo, niza kuluqhuba nini olu
hlolo?
English:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Madam Speaker, members of the executive
are evaluated by the President who appoints them. The President
evaluates the Deputy President and members of the executive on
an ongoing basis because in his hand rests the power to appoint
and to do otherwise. Therefore, the President, what you are
saying really belongs to the realm of the Presidential
prerogative and it is the President only who can do so. Thank
you very much ...
IsiXhosa:
... mhlekazi. Ndiyathemba ukuba uyayiva le nto.
English:
Mr M D NTOMBELA: Chairperson, taking into consideration what the
hon Steenhuisen said,. tToday, a member of the same party wants
the Deputy President to act as a policeman with a baton or a
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speed kop of some sort to the Cabinet Ministers, contrary to
what they were mulling about only yesterday. This is flagrant
double standard and an obvious abuse of the Constitution. My
question is, Deputy President: Given the provisions of the
Constitution, would it therefore not eventually happen that
Ministers may be assigned some functions elsewhere by the
President when circumstances demand, since they must account
collectively and individually to Parliament? This question to me
smacks of Political bankruptcy and a blatant opportunism by the
DA. Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, the Constitution is quite
clear;, members of the executive are appointed by the President.
The President appoints the Deputy President and Ministers. and
hHaving done so, the President then assigns them duties and
tasks. He allocates to us what tasks we should execute. There
may be times when he allocates you a tasks and he may take it
away and allocate it someone else. Therefore, what we are really
dealing with here is the constitutional right of the President
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and his prerogative to assign tasks to appoint Ministers and to
evaluate them.
Colleagues, yes, the President can appoint and fire; it is his
prerogative. Let us read our Constitution very carefully and as
I said, may be Madam Speaker, we should make it available for
bedtime reading to members of this Assembly so that we can all
thus understand what the Constitution says. It is the
prerogative of the President; it is not the prerogative of the
Deputy President, the Lleader of Ggovernment Bbusiness or
whoever else;, that only resides in the Presidents terrain and
power. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Question 11:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, the transformation agenda of
every administration since the advent of democracy has been
directed towards the achievement of a better life for all. That
slogan still rings true to what the governing party has been
committed to ever since 1994. Our programmes in achieving this
better life for all are guided by the vision that was set out in
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the Freedom Charter and by the constitutional injunction to
improve the quality of life of all citizens of this country and
to do this with the view of freeing the potential of each person
who lives in this country.
In furtherance of this, government has directed enormous
resources towards meeting the needs of the poor, implementing
policies to deracialise the economy of our country, building a
skills base of the black majority and creating jobs through
sustainable growth. There have been notable achievements and on
the growth side, real per capita GDP has increased by a third
since 1994. The number of South Africans that are in employment
have increased. However, because the size of the labour force
has also grown over this period - as I was saying earlier, the
rate of unemployment has grown. To the people who have benefited
from the various programmes, the improvement of their living
conditions has been truly transformative. Several legal
instruments have been put in place to deracialise the economy of
our country and this has included the Broad-Based Black Economic
Empowerment Act, the Preferential Procurement Policy Framework
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Act, the Employment Equity Act and many other laws that have
been put in place.
The impact of this together with our investment in education is
evident in the significant growth of the middle class in our
country. The total enrolment at universities has more than
doubled in the first 20 years of our democracy. The percentage
of those who enrolled, who were African increased from under 50%
to over 70% in 2014 because there is such a strong link between
educational performance and inclusive growth. Government
continues to use redistributive financing to increase the number
of students from poor backgrounds who can access tertiary
education.
As indicated by Minister Pravin Gordhan in the 2017 Budget,
government ids directing significant resources towards areas
that promote inclusive growth. This includes the support for
small, medium and micro enterprises, SMMEs, co-operatives, and
industrial infrastructure, particularly in special economic
zones, industrial parks and broadband roll out. We are further
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promoting economic transformation by strengthening black
economic empowerment, BEE, provisions and procurement policy,
intensifying also land redistribution.
We have made significant progress in our transition from a
racially divided unequal and undeveloped state towards one which
is more equal, moving more towards prosperity and in which all
of us have to achieve our potential. While there is still a long
way to go, we are making important strides. Working together, we
believe that we can reach our destination. That is the journey
that we have embarked upon and it is a journey that has been
worthwhile because indeed, life in South Africa has improved, as
said by the South African Institute of Race Relations. Thank you
very much.
IsiZulu:
Nk N GINA: Somlomo, Sekela Mongameli, impendulo yakho ibonise
indlela ende esihanjiwe kuleminyaka engamashumi amabili nantathu
sikuhulumeni wentando yeningi. Impendulo yakho futhi ibonisa
nemigomo phecelezi ama-policies nezinhlelo eziningi ezikhona
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ekutheni ezomnotho zingasatshalaliswa kanjani ukuthi izimpilo
zabantu zithuthuke yonke impilo yomuntu ibengcono. Engifisa
ukulandelisa lapho kuwe yilombuzo wokuthi, kulemigomo emihle
engaka ekhona singenza kanjani siwuhulumeni ukuthi sisondele
kakhulu kulokhu esikubiza ngokuthi yizindlela ezisheshayo
eziwubukhephukhephu ezinamandla ...
English:
... the radical ways ...
IsiZulu:
... la esizobonisa khona ukuthi ...
English:
... the policies that are in place ...
IsiZulu:
... sifisa ngempela ukuthi ngokushesha ...
English:
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... in a very radical manner ...
IsiZulu:
... ikwazi ukufinyelela kwabantu ngendlela esheshayo
nephuthumayo. Sikuncoma kakhulu ukuthi ngeminyakana nje
engamashumi amabili nantathu [23] kodwa kuningi kangaka
uhulumeni wentando yeningi asekubekile. Ngiyabonga Somlomo.
English:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, let me say there is this
wonderful wave that is spreading around the world which has to
do with inclusive growth where ordinary people are clambering
for inclusivity, that they need to be included in whatever
growth process in the economy or generally in society that there
is. This happens to be so much the case ...
IsiZulu:
... nala ekhaya eNingizimu Afrika ngoba abantu bakithi bathanda
kakhulu ukuthi kuyo yonke eyenziwayo yenziwe egameni labo futhi
nabo babone ukuthi bafakiwe [involved] kuzo zonke iznto
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ezenziwayo. Kungaba yizinto zomnotho; kungaba izinto zokuphepha
[safety]; kungaba yinoma yini. Abantu bakithi lapha eNingizimu
Afrika ...
English:
... and you could actually say maybe this is a South African
coined process where our people, in prosecuting their struggle
to rid themselves of apartheid misrule were so deeply immersed
and involved and felt that this freedom must be a freedom they
own and they must get involved and beyond that they have sought
to be involved in various other endeavours of South African life
including economic growth. So ...
IsiZulu:
... uma sikhuluma ngenguquko enkulu yezomnotho [radical
economic transformation] yiyona into abantu bakithi abafuna
ukuthi nabo bafakwe kuyo babe nendlela abangakwazi ukuthi bafake
isandla ingabashiyi ngasemuva.
English:
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It is important for us that as we transform our economy, we
should transform it based on inclusivity. It must be inclusive
growth that our people can feel, touch and see and it is that
which I believe can be a great engine, a great driver of our
economic growth. If we can underpin everything that we do with
that type of approach, we would then be able to add a great deal
of impetus to our economic growth because economy grows best
when the people who are meant to benefit from the economic
growth are involved themselves and are active participants.
For a long time in the past, the majority of our people were
excluded from participating meaningfully in the economy. The
time has now come for them to be so deeply involved in economic
growth and through that we will then be able to generate radical
economic transformation and economic growth on an inclusive base
so that they can all benefit. Localisation, for instance,
becomes even much more of a key driver of our economic
endeavours where we begin to localise and take those types of
economic interventions at a local level so that people
themselves can feel that they are participating and they are
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involved. A whole range of others, for instance, the township
economy becomes one such key driver where we want to be able to
have a township economy that will involve people who were
previously excluded from economic participation in a meaningful
way, who were just seen as people coming from the dormitories of
a capitalist economy. Now, through township economies, they will
become participants and they will be able to play a key role in
the economy.
IsiZulu:
Ngalokho lungu elihlonipekile [hon member] ngithi sizokwazi uma
senza ukuthi abantu bakithi babenendima abazoyidlala kulomnotho
wethu nabo bazizwe ukuthi balibambile iqhaza ngempela khona
umnotho wethu uzokwazi ukuthi ukhule. Ngiyabonga.
IsiZulu:
Mnu R A LEES: Somlomo, Sekela Mongameli [Deputy President],
uyazi ukuthi inhliziyo ibuhlungu ngilalele kodwa angiyizwa
impendulo kumbuzo wethu kodwa kukhona okunye ...
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English:
... unlike my colleagues, I found our suggestion about Cuban
mechanics incredibly insightful and foresight because I look
forward to the ability of the mechanics to be able to repair my
wife‟s 1967 Wolseley 1660. Deputy President, it is universally
agreed, even by countries such as China that the only surefire
way of eliminating poverty is to promote economic growth. It is
also universally recognised that the slow pace of private
investment, the so-called investment strike that is talked about
is a direct consequence of government‟s poor management of the
economy and in particular, the lack of policy certainty.
Mr Deputy President, what are your reservations that you may
have about Parliament establishing an ad hoc multiparty
committee to provide scrutiny and oversight of the
implementation of the structural reforms necessary to boost
economic growth and create jobs?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, hon ...
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IsiZulu:
... Mazambane. Ngiyajabula impela ukuthi ngikwazi ukuphendula
umbuzo wakho. Ngiyajabula ukuzwa ukuthi lesi sibonelo [example]
engisibekile somakhenikha abaphuma e-Cuba ungathanda ukuthi
basize unkosikazi wakho balungise i-Wolseley kodwa umbuzo
engingakubuza wona ukuthi kungani wenza ukuthi unkosikazi wakho
ashayele [drive] imoto endala kangaka i-Wolseley impela? Hawu,
ngoba leyo moto ngiqinisekile ihamba ifa [stuck] endleleni.
Awumthengele imoto engcono ukuthi akwazi ukuhamba nemoto
engcono. [Uhleko.]
English:
Hon Speaker, just in answering the question, it is possible that
maybe when we next go to the World Economic Forum I go with you,
in relation to your reference of China which you have said that
you can only really get rid of unemployment through economic
growth? It is true that they said so but I wish I had taken you
along to go and listen to President Xi Jinping who basically said
that it was when they really embraced globalisation, which
transformed their economy that they were able to see tremendous
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growth. This is statement which is no different from what the
Minister of Finance was saying here that it is through
transformation that we would be able to have inclusive growth.
So, the two can be done in tandem - hand in hand. It is not one
excluding the other. The two are not mutually exclusive, you can
actually do both. Growth can be generated through transformation
and this is precisely what we are saying in this Parliament as
well.
With regard to setting up a special ad hoc committee, I would
say that Members of Parliament have all the opportunities,
through the various portfolio committees to participate in
discussions that have an impact on our economy. In fact, I can
count a number of portfolio committees where Members of
Parliament should be able to make suggestions and inputs. And
indeed, also in inputs that are made here in plenary, Members of
Parliament, including members from the opposition, should be
able to come up with great suggestions and proposals. I have
always called for that and I have always said that I look
forward to the day when here in Parliament we will be able to
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hear really outstanding proposals, out of this world type of
proposals on how we can address some of the challenges that we
face. Now, quite often, Members of Parliament stand here and
don‟t come forth with those types of proposals. [Interjections.]
And I sit here and say that I long for that day.
IsiZulu:
Ngicabanga ukuthi mhlawumbe njengoba sengishilo, ngelinye
ilanga, wena mnumzane, uwena ozoza naleyo mibono.
[proposals]Imibono emihle ozoyibeka la ukuthi sikwazi ukuthi
lomnotho welizwe lakithi ukuthi singawusa kanjani phambili.
Ngithembe ukuthi uzokwenza njalo. Ngiyabonga.
English:
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Hon Speaker, through you to the Deputy Speaker,
it is common cause that government policies have dismally failed
to achieve inclusive economic growth in South Africa. Here are
the indicators: Eight percent of the land was transferred since
1994; outside of the institutional investors, black people have
less than 5% of bank ownership - they have less than 1% of
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insurance industry ownership; out of the R8,9 trillion that is
managed by asset management companies, less than 5% is managed
by black asset managers and more than 70% of government‟s
procurement spend benefits white-owned companies and the few of
you who have benefited from black economic empowerment are just
indebted staff riders in white corporations.
So, this vividly illustrates that black people have not
benefited out of government interventions in the economy.
Wouldn‟t you think that it would be much more progressive to
legislate a minimum of 50% ownership of black people of the
South Africa‟s economy because everything else that you have
done in the past 23 years has failed and added to that, don‟t
you think that this is the right time for black political
parties to unite and change the Constitution to expropriate land
without compensation. Thank you very much.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, thank you very much hon
Shivambu for putting those statistics. I mean some of those
statistics are debatable and we can possibly sit down and debate
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them but the truth is on the economic side, we have not made as
much progress as we had anticipated. That is the reality, the
economy of our country is still white owned and white
controlled. That should pose a real challenge to all of us
because we should not, having attained the vote for all South
Africans just think that all what they ever wanted was the vote
and the rest, like the economic power was not important. Of
course, economic power is important and we should make sure that
everything that we do is to go and vest economic power in the
hands of the majority of our people. Various measures have been
put in place - the Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Act
was put in place, Employment Equity Act and a whole number of
other measures.
Admittedly, many of such are not and have not borne the fruit
that we expected, hence the governing party has come forward
with the intervention of radical economic transformation whose
elements were clearly outlined by the President and the Minister
of Finance. As the year ensues, you are going to hear various
Ministers, as they come up for their votes they will also be
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speaking to the radical economic transformation concepts to make
sure that we move the issue of radical economic transformation
forward. All that I can say is that it‟s true that we have not
made as much progress as we had anticipated but we will be
making progress because that has now become the key focus of
this governing party. We are going to be coming up with
programmes interventions and initiatives that are going to move
the needle in a way where black are going to have a sense and
feel that they are going to benefit from the economy. If you
just look at procurement, we have said 70% of white-owned
companies‟ benefit, now that it is going to be turned on its
head. We want the majority of black people‟s companies to
benefit from that. We are going to be doing a whole lot of other
interventions. Watch this space; you are going to see great
progress and changes beginning to ensue as we go forward. Thank
you very much.
IsiZulu:
Mnu M HLENGWA: Mhlonishwa Somlomo,
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English:
Hon Deputy President, at the heart of the transformation you
spoke about is the issue of education and I know that in the
first question you went to great lengths at explaining about
changes which are being effected in technical and vocational
education and training, Tvet - in education. At the heart of the
FeesMustFall movement, there was also the issue of transforming
the content for a colloquial term of university education. I
would like to find out what is your view with regard to ensuring
that South African universities prioritise African literature,
African knowledge, skills and expertise and that we give life to
Agenda 2063 about building an African intelligentsia. We are
quoting things from 1664 which are being published in the US and
so on. When do we begin ensuring that the transformation and
inclusive growth which we speak about encompasses an education
system in its entirety which speaks to Africa.
Finally, Hon Deputy President, if I may indulge you, I know it
is one question – I asked about the construction procurement
system, CPS, and radical economic transformation and I did not
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get a response. So, I am hoping that since you have spoken about
radical economic transformation now, I thought I will catch you
by giving me a response to that one as well. Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, the issue that I guess you
are addressing is this issue that has been raised by students
who have sought to ensure that their education is decolonise and
that we should decolonise our education system. You asked a
direct question and my answer is yes. I am in full support of
decolonisation of our education curriculum and the education
system. It has for too long being Eurocentric. We need to
respond very positively to promote African literature and
African knowledge systems and everything that is there in Africa
so that we grow an intelligentsia but in my book it is also to
promote reading and as we do this – as we promote African
intelligentsia, we should be promoting reading. Our reading
levels are very low in this country. We need to be generating
more and more reading in our country so that young people and
indeed older people should be able to read and at great length
and at great depth.
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Am in great support of that and I would like to see our
curriculum beginning to reflect precisely the heroes and the
heroines of our country, our struggle and some of the knowledge
systems that reside in Africa and that are promoted by great
African intellectuals. We were pleasantly pleased the other day
when Ngugi wa Thiong‟o was here and he was able to regal
everyone who was able to meet him with his depth of knowledge on
African language, African literature and he was really talking
about decolonising our minds because we still remain colonised
in our thinking, in our way, in our approach. And you could say
that possibly even in our politically orientation. Our political
orientation, particularly those who have a political orientation
that veers more towards being conservative are so deeply imbued
in this political ideology which is completely devoid of what we
are all about, as Africans, which is ubuntu, that is what
Professor Thiong‟o was teaching us about.
I think I have spoken about the CPS issue, I mean what we need
to be doing as part of the Broad-Black Economic Empowerment
process is that we should be procuring services and goods for
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companies that are empowered. If a company is well empowered, it
has good black economic empowerment credentials, that is the
company that we should be doing business with so that we can
achieve what hon Shivambu was talking about to ensure that black
people get into the ownership and control levels of our economy.
The CPS one, I don‟t have line of sight and knowledge of what
true shareholder base is, but I will expect that we were
procuring from them, it should be a company that is well
empowered. Thank you very much
Question 12:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Madam Speaker, I‟m informed by the
relevant department that there is no need for the South African
government to intervene on the Lesotho Highlands Water Project
Phase 2.
I‟m advised that the delays in the implementation have been
addressed and the project will be delivered in line with the
revised projections with the delivery of water scheduled for
2025.
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Both governments have committed to the implementation of the
project and are in constant communication through the Lesotho
Highlands Water Commission, which is the governing structure
which is entrusted with the role of the strategic oversight on
implementation.
In the meantime delivery of water to South Africa through phase
one which as we all know has been completed – that continues. So
there is no further need for any special intervention in this
regard. We have come to a point where it is run of the mill and
communication continues.
Things are getting done and water will be delivered in 2025 in
terms of phase two. However, right now, water continues to flow
from the mountains of Lesotho through the channels that have
been constructed. Thank you very much.
Mr L M NTSHAYISA: Thank you very much hon Speaker. I „m very
much delighted that I „m going to put a question to my counter
part because I am a deputy president of AIC. [Laughter.]
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The SPEAKER: Congratulations, hon Ntshayisa.
Mr L M NTSHAYISA: Yes, be quite please. My last question, in
Afrikaans they say: “Agteros kom ook in die kraal.”
Isixhosa:
Isina-mva liyabukwa.
English:
My Deputy President, I just want to check now, to what extent
you have a relief that this project will go, in terms of
benefiting the people; that is, in terms of numbers and on the
part of the Department of Water and Sanitation in our country.
Thank you very much.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you, hon Speaker. Hon Deputy
President, [Laughter.] From one Deputy President to another
Deputy President, but there are a few Deputy Presidents as well
you must recognise that. So you and I are not the only ones.
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There are a few of us. Hon Shivambu is one of the Deputy
Presidents. [Laughter.]
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: I think I„m the only one who is relevant here.
[Laughter.]
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: No, I thought hon Shivambu you will say
you are the only one who is radical. [Laughter.] Thank you hon
Speaker, I think we should say that every project that we embark
on as a South African government is aimed at benefiting a number
of our people.
From a water point of view, yes, our people will benefit in
their millions particularly in Gauteng and the Free State; and
obviously in Lesotho the people of Lesotho are also going to
benefit as they do already; as the people in Gauteng and the
Free State also do.
So it is a multi beneficiary type of a process where we seek to
benefit as many people as possible. If you want real numbers I
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don‟t have them but it is a type of a process where numbers can
be provided to you fairly easily. So many people will benefit.
Thank you very much.
Mr L J BASSON: Thank you, hon Speaker. Deputy President, since
the Lesotho Highlands Water Project Phase 2 agreement was signed
in 2011, the water delivery dates have been delayed by six
years, from 2019 to 2025 as you have mentioned. The direct cause
of these delays is a political interference by the ANC; noting
that Minister Mokonyane stopped the prequalification tenders in
2015; to open the door for ANC cadres company LTE to submit
their tender.
So often in South Africa the problem is not the plan Deputy
President, but government‟s inability to implement projects that
unfortunately ends up costing billions more. Deputy President,
can you give South Africa a commitment today that there will be
no further political interference and delays on this important
project. And, could you inform Parliament how the political
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crisis in Lesotho will influence the Lesotho Highlands Water
Project Phase 2. I thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you, hon Speaker. It was Minister
Mokonyane who appointed a task team to investigate the
maladministration in the procurement process and also to address
the processes of delays; and that task team was appointed by
her. I do not believe that she could have played any role in
causing any further delays.
I can now say that most of the challenges and problems have now
been solved. There is constant communication. The delivery – yes
has been delayed which is very unfortunate but it is going to
happen in 2025. I do not anticipate that the political processes
that are now unfolding in Lesotho are going to lead to any delay
for this project.
The various governments that have come and gone in Lesotho have
always been mindful of the importance of this project and have
always sought to adhere to agreements that have been arrived at
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and reached. So I expect that the government whichever one will
emerge in the end now that there has been a vote of no
confidence is going to be the type of government that will
adhere to agreements and make sure that the execution of the
agreements happens. I think we can safely say that, that should
not be a problem or a major stumbling blog. Thank you very much.
Mr S N SWART: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Arising from your
respond, hon Deputy President, and as a brother to a brother not
a Deputy President to a Deputy President; we in the ACDP are
firstly grateful to our mighty God for answered prayers for the
rains which have fallen over the country, resulting in the
sudden rise of water levels at the Vaal and Bloemhof dams; and
even water scientists says - referred to this past week: They
call this a four day miracle. So we say “Malibongwe igama
leNkosi.” [Praise be to the Lord Mighty.]
Secondly, just as the implementation of this project is
concerned, we appreciate it is a foreign affairs issue; but to
what degree should we use the executive, and we as Parliament in
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exercising an oversight role. We appreciate that it is a
construction in a foreign company but to understand the issues
of costs overruns, time overruns and any possible corrupt
activities.
We obviously would like to ensure from Parliament perspective
that is completed on time to provide the water that we need and
so that whilst we appreciate, we do pray for rain. The Lord
provides rain. We need to be good stewards of the capacity of
water that is supplied. Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you hon Speaker and the brother to
brother. I‟m able to say that like you, and as a farmer as well
we are also very pleased that the rains have come and
particularly in the area where it matters most: in the farming
areas of our country for food production but also in the area
that feeds the industrial areas of our country like Gauteng
where the Vaal dam‟s levels has gone up.
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So we are truly grateful for that. You depicted as a four day
miracle and we are very happy for these types of miracles. May
we, have more and more miracles. I‟m sure you will have a very
great hand in making sure that we do have miracles going
forward.
When it comes to the issue of oversight, I think we have got as
I said earlier a number of committees in Parliament that
exercise oversight over a number of things that the executive
does. We have got the Standing Committee on Public Accounts,
Scopa, which plays such an important role; if there is any whiff
or suspicion that money or resources have not being properly
used. It plays that role.
We have got a number of other agencies that play such a role. I
would say that those are the agencies and the structures that we
should utilise, both here in Parliament and outside Parliament
that should help us to exercise our oversight role on various
endeavors that we get involved in as South Africans.
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In this case, it is a cross border type of issue. I‟m sure that
the portfolio committee that deals with these types of matters
will be able to play a key role. So I would say let us actively
utilise those structures to achieve a good end for all South
Africans. Thank you very much.
Mr M M DLAMINI: Yes Speaker. I‟m here. I need to deal with two
issues. The question is going to be asked by hon Matiase.
The SPEAKER: Aa aa! Hon Dlamini if you are not asking a follow
up question just take your seat then let hon Matiase take the
floor.
Mr M M DLAMINI: Yes, that‟s what is going to happen, right now
Speaker; but thinking about the hon farmer ... [Interjection.]
What about other people? Can we deal with that issue?
Mr M S MATIASE: Madam Speaker and the Deputy President, water is
as scarce as the truth coming from the mouth of politicians
lately; especially from the ruling party. In 2015, the
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Department of Water and Sanitation reported that out of 5 000
registered dams in the country, there are only 320 state owned.
This is a serious indictment on the government and how it has
allowed the private ownership of public goods and sometimes
scooper your own limited transformation roles – to undermine
them. The land question and water availability and the use are
intermittedly linked. If the state owns registered dams you
would be able to fast-track land reform.
So the question is to you Deputy President, would you be able as
government to transform the society as faster, and as equitably
as possible if the state continues with the constitutional
provisions, which protects private ownership of land and dams;
and the majority of these dams...
Sesotho:
... di fumanwa mapolasing a maburu ntate. Re sitwa le ke ho etsa
ditsela le ho kenya dipalo tsa motlakase moo; ho fa batho ba
rona motlakase hobane mapolasi ana a tshwerwe ke maburu. Jwale,
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a ko arabe potso ena: hore na – kgetlong lena re kopa o tle o
tshepahale, le karabo ya hao e tle e itshetlehe potsong ena eo
re o botsitseng yona.
English:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, thank you.
Sesotho:
Ntate, ke ntse ke araba dipotso mona. Ke tshetleha hantle.
Jwale, le yona potso eo ya hao ke tla e arabela hobane kannete
ntho eo o e buang ke ya hore ho na le matamo a mangata mona empa
a mang a ona a dibakeng tse itseng moo mobu o leng matsohong a
batho ba bang.
Jwale, lefapha lena la rona la Metsi le Tlheko ke lona le
sebetsanang le tsona ntho tsena tsa metsi. Ke bona ba nehelanang
ka dilaesense kapa tumello ya hore batho ba kgone ho ba le
metsi. Ba a sebedise ka tsela e itseng.
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Ka tjhebo yaka ka nnete ke fumana hore mosebetsi oo ba o etsang,
wa ho hlokomela metsi a rona, haholoholo le ho fana ka
dilaesense ho batho ba batlang ho sebedisa metsi, ke mosebetsi
oo ba o etsang ka tsela e napahetseng ho ya ka tjhebo yaka.
Haele hantle ke ile ka botsa dipotso, ka botsisisa hantle hore
na dilaesense tsena tsa tumello ba di ntsha ha ho le jwang. Ke
fumane hore ba dintsha ka tsela e nepahetseng. Jwale hoo ho
mpontsha hore le yona nthoane ya hore ba hlokomele metsi a naha
ena, e ntse e le ntho eo ba ntseng ba e sebetsa ka tsela e ntle.
English:
So I have had no doubt in my mind that the Department of Water
and Sanitation in being the steward of our water resources in
our country has been sleeping on the job and has not been doing
their proper job. They issue water licenses in quite a rigorous
and prudent way. In fact, what I do know is that they have even
set up a structure that issues these licenses almost a semiindependent structure does so.
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So the stewardness of our water is well managed. The real
challenge is that we are a water scarce country and even now as
we are having these wonderful rains that are a miracle, we have
not in terms of the architecture of looking after our water –
have not done it as well as I have seen in other countries;
where we have sought to trap the water so that not all of it
runs to the sea or just goes underground or evaporates.
That is a process that we now need to get on so that as we have
this water in great abundance from providence we should be able
to trap it, to utilise it effectively and for economic means;
for instance: for irrigation to empower our people as a whole.
So I‟m hoping that we will be able to move in that direction but
as for now I think our water resources are well managed. Of
course we can always do better. “Ke a leboha, Ntate.”
The SPEAKER: Hon members, that concludes questions to the Deputy
President, and I thank the Deputy President. Now, hon members,
before I adjourned the House, I wish to deal with the matter
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raised earlier by hon Steenhuisen: the allege breach of
privilege – indeed raised by the hon Chief Whip of the
Opposition.
Rule 31(3) provides that if an allege breach of privilege does
not directly affect a sitting of the House in the immediate
future, the Speaker must refer the matter to the Powers and
Privileges Committee and inform the House accordingly, either
immediately or at the earliest opportunity.
Therefore, the matter raised by the hon member will accordingly
be referred to the committee as indicated.
The House Adjourned at 16:19.
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