Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised Hansard
House: National Council of Provinces
Date of Meeting: 07 Nov 2018
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
WEDNESDAY, 07 NOVEMBER 2018
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
The Council met at 14:00.
The House Chairperson (Mr A J Nyambi) took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
HIRING OF 37 FORMER FREEDOM FIGHTERS AS GENERALS BY THE SAPS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr O S TERBLANCHE: House Chairperson, I move without notice: That the House –
notes that the SA Police Service, SAPS, are planning to promote 37 former Umkhonto weSizwe, MK, and Azanian People’s Liberation Army, APLA, freedom fighters to the rank of General;
further notes that these 37 freedom fighters form part of nearly 600 former non-statutory forces, NSF, who will also be promoted through multiple ranks where in one instance a Sergeant could be promoted to a Brigadier, a leap of seven ranks;
this is clearly another form of cadre deployment by the ANC and Minister Cele, despite knowing very well that such a hiring exercise has failed before; and
lastly, notes how this is grossly unfair to career police officers and not in the public interest as it could have a negative effect on SAPS’ ability to enforce law and order and therefore have this House to call on the Minister of Police to reverse this decision.
I so move.
Motion not agreed with
WESTERN CAPE PROVINCIAL DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS ADMITS TO HAVE FAILED TO MEET HOUSING TARGETS DELIVERY
(Draft Resolution)
Ms E PRINS: House Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the House –
notes that the Western Cape Provincial Department of Human Settlements has admitted that it has failed to meet its housing delivery targets in its annual report briefing to the provincial standing committee;
further notes that the DA Chairperson of the standing committee said that there is a great need for housing in the province and the department needed a better system in order to be able to deliver on the housing needs of the people;
therefore calls on the DA government of the Western Cape to prioritise delivery of houses to the poor including social housing within the inner city instead of defending their funders.
I so move.
Motion not agreed to.
GOVERNMENT NOT SPENDING WISELY
(Draft Resolution)
Mr F ESSACK: House Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the House –
notes that in August 2017, Cabinet approved a mandate paper to guide the spending choices of National Government, but the 2018 Medium-Term Budget makes no mention of this mandate paper;
the Financial and Fiscal Commission has noted that Africa’s most industrialized country is clearly in trouble and unable to match the pace of recovery when compared to other countries on the continent with over half of provincial budgets dedicated to personnel in terms of wages and salaries;
the ability of this government to address the key socioeconomic challenges of unemployment, poverty and inequality is severely compromised by weak governance across the board in both public and private sector corruption;
from state-owned enterprises to SARS, the ANC that was once a proud liberation movement has destroyed the pride of a nation with crime and corruption being the order of the day;
the 2018 main budget deficit is now estimated to widen to 4,3% of GDP compared to the previously announced 3,8%. We warned you of this demise in the country’s fiscus but sadly for many of you politics takes precedence over the well- being of our nation;
we need to clarify the framework governing the proposed land expropriation [Time Expired.]
I so move.
Motion without notice becomes notice of a motion
DAN PLATO APPOINTED AS THE NEW EXECUTIVE MAYOR OF THE CAPE TOWN CITY METRO
(Draft Resolution)
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: House chairperson, I move without notice:
That the House –
congratulates Mayor Dan Plato in his new role as the Executive Mayor of the Cape Town City Metro;
show our support with his quest to lead an administration that will continue with providing residents adequate service delivery;
notes that Dan has been Mayor of this metro before and his experience and passion for leadership will be incredibly beneficial to the people of Cape Town; and
further notes that the DA will continue putting the residents of Cape Town and the Western Cape first.
I so move.
Motion not agreed to.
Mr F ESSACK: On a point of order, House Chairperson: I just want you to note, with due respect, that the EFF is in the House I’m not sure for how long. Thank you, Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): You’re out of order hon Essack.
PROFESSOR RAYMOND SUTTNER TO GRADUATE 50 YEARS AFTER THE UNIVERSITY OF CAPE TOWN REFUSED TO TO ACCEPT HIS THESIS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr D M MONAKEDI: House Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the House –
notes that almost 50 years have gone by since former political prisoner and academic, Professor Raymond Suttner, had his Master of Law Degree thesis refused;
further note that Prof Suttner submitted his thesis on legal pluralism in South Africa in 1969 and it was not accepted by the University of Cape Town, UCT, because he quoted a banned Jack Simons who was listed as a communist;
also note that Prof Suttner is scheduled to graduate on 14 December 2018 and this was made possible through the intervention of Dee Smythe, Professor of Public Law at UCT;
therefore congratulates Professor Suttner on his graduation almost 50 years after submitting and withdrawing his thesis, and salute him on his refusal to succumb to the apartheid state machinery.
I so move.
Agreed to.
GRADUATION OF 50 PHD STUDENTS BY INSTITUTE OF THE HUMAN AND SOCIAL SCIENCES
(Draft Resolution)
Dr H E MATEME: House Chairperson, I hereby moved without notice on behalf of the ANC:
That the Council -
notes that the Institute of the Humanities and Social Sciences celebrated the graduation of 50 new PhD students whose studies it helped to fund, bringing the number of PhD graduates they have funded to 100 in just five years;
further notes that the graduation ceremony took place during a gala dinner at the Fourth Annual National Doctoral Conference in Johannesburg from October 28 to November 1; and
congratulates the National Institute of the Humanities and Social Services on their contribution in cultivating people with doctoral degrees who are a valuable national resource to address challenges this country has.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution
APPRECIATION OF RURAL KWAZULU-NATAL SCHOOL FOR WINNING WATER CONSERVATION COMPETITION
(Draft Resolution)
Ms L L ZWANE: House Chairperson, on behalf of the ANC I hereby moved without notice:
That the Council-
notes and welcomes with utmost appreciation that rural KwaZulu-Natal, KZN, school has made waves at an international water conservation competition in October, winning top two awards;
also notes that representing South Africa at the Water Explorer 2018 in London, Ebomvini Primary School, received the Innovation and Student’s Choice Awards;
further notes that learners from 11 participating countries including Turkey, Germany and Malta were also impressed with the learners’ ability to make the projects work despite having limited resources, they agreed that Ebomvini’s projects were creative and deserved to win; and
congratulates Esihle Gasa and Asiphile Mkhonde, grade 7 learners with their teacher, Youth Mavundla for not only having well represented their school and KZN, but also for lifting the South African flag high and making our country proud.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution
LAUNCH OF THE ANTI-GANG UNIT IN HANOVER PARK, CAPE TOWN
(Draft Resolution)
Mr J M MTHETHWA: House Chairperson, on behalf of the ANC I hereby move:
That the Council -
notes and welcomes that the President Cyril Ramaphosa and Minister of Police General Bheki Cele had successfully and formally launched the Anti-Gang Unit in Hanover Park, Cape Town for the entire Cape Peninsula area last Friday, 2nd November and it will also be rolled out to Gauteng and the Eastern Cape Province and wherever the need exists;
further notes that the Anti-Gang Unit made up of members from specialised units aims to dislodge and terminally weaken the capacity of the gangs and to combat as well as fundamentally disable the criminal economy linked to gangsterism, including drug and firearm supply lines or other identified commodities where they are prevalent across the country;
also notes that President Ramaphosa’s participation indicates his commitment and that of government at large, to ensure that communities are able to live in safety, while criminals are subjected to the might of the law; and
wishes the Unit well in cracking down those criminal activities and protecting the community that has been living under siege of gangs, who have no regard for human life.
THE DA-LED COALITION METRO OF THE CITY OF JOHANNESBURG ACHIEVED AA RATING
(Draft Resolution)
Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: Chairperson, on behalf of the DA I hereby wish to move without notice:
That the Council -
congratulates the DA led coalition Metro of Johannesburg on achieving an AA rating, accorded by Global Credit Ratings Company;
notes that despite the challenges faced by the City, this very high ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Engelbrecht, order! Hon Mokwele, why are you standing? Can you take your seat?
Ms T J MOKWELE: The motion of hon Engelbrecht is misleading the country. There is no coalition in Johannesburg.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele, you will have an opportunity to either accept or to reject. Let’s allow her to complete. Can you complete your motion?
Ms B A ENGELBRECHT:
... credit quality rating demonstrates the confidence which investors can place in the financial position of Johannesburg and its potential for growth;
further notes that the city has consistently demonstrated its financial resilience with recurring surpluses, maintenance of healthy cash balances and the continued roll out of the capital expenditure program. All of these have been achieved within the context of a deteriorating global economic environment;
acknowledges that despite the inherited corruption and maladministration with a historically flawed billing system and massive R18 billion debtor’s books, the city has begun to make significant progress in stabilising the finance department and prioritising expenditure towards addressing the R170 billion infrastructure backlog that it inherited;
further acknowledges that the city has begun to demonstrate economic strength by achieving two consecutive quarters of job creation, creating 109 000 new people entering the job market; and
continues to ensure that the people of Johannesburg are provided with the best service delivery providing one South Africa for all.
MURDER OF SEVEN FAMILY MEMBERS IN VLAKFONTEIN JOHANNESBURG SOUTH
(Draft Resolution)
Mr E MAKUE: Hon Chairperson, on behalf of the ANC I hereby move without notice:
That the Council -
notes with profound sadness that seven people from the same family were murdered by a person who is known to the victims in Vlakfontein, Johannesburg South;
also notes that the bodies of the seven that included three women and four children were discovered buried under a pile of sand in a bedroom and back room of the house on Monday, after a resident reported a stench that stirred some suspicions of foul play;
further notes and welcome the arrests of two people of which one is a very close friend, almost a member of the family that has been found with the bank cards of the victims, also facing charges of rape;
urges the law enforcement agencies to leave no stone unturned with regards to this and further prioritise cases against women and children. We send our deepest sympathy and condolences to the bereaved family, relatives and friends.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
THE INVITATION OF PROF. BASIE VON SOLMS BY WORLD ECONOMIC FORUM
(Draft Resolution)
Mr G MICHALAKIS: Chairperson, on behalf of the DA I hereby wish to move without notice:
That this House -
congratulates Professor Basie von Solms on being invited by the World Economic Forum to join its Global Future Council on Cybersecurity;
acknowledges that the Global Future Council on Cybersecurity is an invitation-only community consisting of nineteen leading international cybersecurity experts;
notes that while South African experts in this field such as Professor Von Solms are well respected, South Africa itself and especially the government are seriously lagging behind;
further notes that despite South Africa having among the highest cybercrime victims in the world costing the economy billions of rand per year our legislation, governments support for the private sector, as well as its own departments and awareness campaign efforts and government’s efforts in terms of training on school and tertiary level, leaves much to be desired;
acknowledges that often the victim of these crimes is ordinary South Africans who have nowhere to resort to but an under resourced and inadequately trained police service; and
(5) further acknowledges that we have no doubt that appointment of Professor Basie von Solms is to the benefit of global cybersecurity and that the work of the council will ultimately benefit South Africa as well, undoubtedly soon under an alternative government that will take cybersecurity seriously.
THE PASSING AWAY OF COMRADE ANDY SEFOTLHELO
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: Chairperson, I moved without notice:
That the Council -
notes with profound sadness the passing away of comrade Andy Sefotlhelo;
also notes that comrade Solomon Andy Sefotlhelo was an advocate of social consciousness, who became the first youth in the Free State province post the 1961 banning of political parties to be found guilty of being a member of the ANC;
further notes that comrade Andy Sefotlhelo was convicted for five years for advancing the aims and objectives of the ANC and sent to Robben Island where he was entrusted with the deliveries to the isolation section that housed Rivonia trialists and various political prisoners, including comrade Nelson Mandela, Walter Sisulu and Goven Mbeki;
also states that comrade Andy Sefotlhelo served the ANC, UDF and the uMkhonto we Sizwe in various capacities and served the people of South Africa with profound dedication and humility in the Free State Legislature and the Mangaung Metropolitan Council;
also notes that he was elected to the founding National Executive Committee of the South African Youth Congress, SAYCO, together with other comrades like Peter Mokaba which led the militant young revolutionary democracy under the slogan “victory is certain, freedom or death”; and
takes this opportunity to convey its heartfelt condolences to the Sefotlhelo family and his comrades.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Mr M M CHABANGU: House Chairperson, the DA is starting again. I rise on behalf of the EFF without notice:
That the Council -
notes that the EFF welcomes the Public Protector’s findings on the conduct of the Minister of Home Affairs, Mr Gigaba;
further notes that it appears that Mr Gigaba has breached the code of conduct and violated the Constitution and executive ethics code when he lied in Parliament and to court about Fireblade Aviation court battle;
understands that this means that Gigaba is a serious menace for the Constitution and the Rule of law. The EFF has long said that like Zuma, Gigaba must no longer hold any public office including being a member of Parliament or any other provincial legislature; and
further understands that affording of private terminal to the Oppenheimer is only unpatriotic, but a serious breach to the national security. He lied and put our national security at risk. This is the same as Zuma who put national security at
risk by allowing the Gupta family to land at Waterkloof Airforce Military Base. Therefore Gigaba must fall.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Koni, raise your point of order.
Ms N P KONI: Chairperson, just because you wanted the motion to be rejected, nobody rejected. Now that you said it on record that somebody rejected, now the ANC members raise their hands. No one said anything. No, Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Can you take your seat? That is not a point of order. I am sitting here presiding and I heard them saying no.
EXPULSION OF NINE CANCELLORS FROM SOL PLAATJIE MUNICIPALITY BY THE ANC IN THE FRANCES BAARD REGION
(Draft Resolution)
Mr J W W JULIUS: If you object, you do so ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr.A J Nyambi): Can you present your motion?
Mr J W W JULIUS: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the House –
that the Regional Disciplinary Committee of the ANC in the Frances Baard region has taken the unprecedented decision to expel nine of its councillors from the Sol Plaatjie Local Municipality, after voting with the opposition to remove former Mayor Mangaliso Makita through a motion of no confidence;
these councillors, including another two ANC councillors who were not expelled, helped the opposition elect Councillor Pule Thabane as Mayor over Councillor Patrick Mabilo, an ANC deployee from Parliament;
this is evidently a vote of no confidence in the ANC by their very own councillors after the Municipality has gone into a state of disarray under Matika; and
the ANC do not care about the people who voted them in, trusting them to provide much needed service delivery.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Is there any onbjection to the motion?
HON MEMBERS: Yes!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): In light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with; the motion without notice will now become notice of a motion. Hon Mokwele, let me first recognise hon Oliphant, because she is the one who raised her hand first.
Ms G G OLIPHANT: Chair, I just wanted to tell the members that the hon member is misleading ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, hon Oliphant, don’t even go there! We are done with that motion. Let me recognise hon Mokwele!
Ms T J MOKWELE: Chair, how I wish that the ANC members would have not agreed with the motion of the EFF of Mr Gigaba “aka porn star” but they didn’t do that like they did with the motion on Sol Plaatjie one.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele, that is not a point of order! In some of the motions they are very allowed and in some are not. Order!
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: House Chair, I move:
That the Council rescinds its decision taken on 12 September 2018 in respect of Protection, Promotion, Development and Management of Indigenous Knowledge Bill and recommits the Bill to the Select Committee on Communications and Public Enterprises. Secondly, it’s a different one Chair, can I proceed?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): We are dealing with the first one first!
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: They are similar.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Okay, present both of them! Deal with them!
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: The other one is the item on the Order Paper. I would like to move:
That the Order Paper be amended, that item No 2, Consideration of the National Health Laboratory Services Amendment Bill be deferred to the next plenary.
I so move.
Question put:
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Ms T J MOKWELE: Chair, I think as Council, sometimes when the Chief Whip brings issues to us, we must have a liberty of being given a background of why should we rescind something that we as opposition objected to, and which has been passed by the House, and yet we still have to rescind the decision of the House?
What are the reasons for rescinding this matter because, we made mention of the fact that this matter must be properly dealt with at the select committee meeting. It was then brought to the House and was forcibly voted for. So, why should we now rescind our decisions?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, I don’t want to get to how the Whippery is functioning; my role is just to preside
now. I am therefore appealing to all the parties, especially Chief Whip working with the other parties to resolve those issues at that relevant forum ... [Interjections.] Hon Mokwele, I’m saying that the point you are raising is relevant but it means that we have to engage with the Chief Whip, not now at this plenary.
Ms T J MOKWELE: Chair, I agree with you 100%, but we must never ever be tempted to bring items to the House through backdoor. No matter I didn’t attend last week’s Whippery, the matter was never debated at the Whippery. It is not there in the records of the minutes; it’s not there! I’m telling you, mama, it’s not there!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele, I’m happy that you agree with my ruling. I’m still repeating what I said that you’ll have to deal with it at an appropriate forum, not here in the plenary.
In accordance with Rule 71 I shall first allow provinces the opportunity to make Declaration of Vote if they so wish.
Motion accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon member, why are you standing?
Mr E M MLAMBO: I am standing on a point of order, Chair!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr.A J Nyambi): Okay! What’s your point of order?
Mr E M MLAMBO: The point of order is that hon Julius is not delegated for Gauteng.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Okay!
Mr E M MLAMBO: Yes!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Order! Hon members, let me assist. A leader of a delegation in the NCOP is the Premier who can delegate a provincial Whip to lead. So, I can’t be presiding ... [Interjections.] I’m therefore sustaining a point of order. Can you take your seat! Let me deal with hon Mokwele.
Ms T J MOKWELE: I am standing on a point of order, Chair! Chair, this matter was brought to the House like now. There is no way that
the Premier or a leader of delegation has given hon Mlambo a mandate. There’s no mandate that has been given, that is why a delegate from Gauteng stood up to disagree with the motion.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele, can you take your seat so that I can explain?
Ms T J MOKWELE: Chair, I’m warning you again about the processes in the House, don’t be like Tau, I know that you are very good in terms of running the House, but I’m appealing with you not to be like Mr Tau who takes wrong decisions.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, let me explain once again, I’m not saying that the Premier has called a person to give him or her mandate. But I’m saying, in terms of the Constitution, the leader of a provincial delegation in the NCOP is the Premier and a permanent delegate is led by the provincial Whip. As a person presiding, therefore, it is not my responsibility to assist and say that a certain member will be representing a certain province. In this case ... [Interjections.]
Can you listen? I was going to take the vote of hon Julius if there was no point of order, but there was a point of order. So, that is
why I entertained hon Mlambo. [Interjections.] I have made a ruling! [Interjections.] Yes, you can speak!
Ms N P KONI: Chair, you are one of the presiding officers that on a number of times have refused us to raise point of orders in the middle of voting. So why are you doing it to hon Mlambo today? You, including other presiding officers of this House, would always say, wait for the voting to conclude, then I will take your point of order. Why is it different this time with Mlambo?
Ms T J MOKWELE: Exactly! Why is it different? Never do that!
Ms N P KONI: Hon Julius voted. Therefore the House must proceed! You must continue the business of the day!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Gauteng? Take your seat! I’m not entertaining any point of order! Take your seat! Hon Mlambo, can you vote!
Ms T J MOKWELE: No!
Mr E M MLAMBO: Can I be protected?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Gauteng?
Mr E M MLAMBO: I vote in favour, Chair! I don’t know why are they making a hullabaloo about this thing! [Applause.]
[Take in from Minutes.]
Motion accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Let me acknowledge hon Mokwele!
Ms T J MOKWELE: Chair, firstly, I want you to indulge me with a rule that you have used to give Gauteng two chances of voting, because there is no where in the rules and the Constitution where it says that a province can vote twice.
Secondly, I want you to be consistent when you do the rulings. We have been voting against motions as delegation, and you don’t know what the members or delegates from Gauteng were discussing on in terms of the mandate. No one knows what the mandate of Gauteng Province was.
Lastly, I’m appealing to you, Chair, and this is the last time that I’m appealing to you like we’ve requested before that all the provincial mandates, must be brought to the House because we cannot allow Whips of Provinces to take illegal mandates and vote for their provinces. Otherwise we are going to act against this. I’m appealing to you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele ... [Interjections.] Hon Engelbrecht, I’ve recognised hon Mokwele and you are consistently standing. You know that what you are doing is out of order. Can you take your seat! Take your seat, I want to make a ruling. [Interjections.] You are not recognised! Can you take your seat! Hon Engelbrecht, take your seat! Hon Mokwele! ... [Interjections.] Hon Engelbrecht, take your seat! ... [Interjections.] When you are seated, I’ll continue!
Hon Mokwele, you know what the procedure is if you are having a problem with a ruling. I would appeal to you to follow the procedure. I’ve made a ruling and you know that at no stage I will review my ruling, but you have to follow the procedure to deal with a ruling that is problematic to you.
Hon Engelbrecht, take your seat! You can’t be consistently be disobeying the presiding officer. Hon Engelbrecht, do you want to be part of the sitting?
Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: [Inaudible.]
HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): But you are not recognised, take your seat!
Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: I want to make a point of order!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): A point of order to who?
Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: To you! I am standing on a point of order! The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Okay! What’s your point of order?
Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: The rules makes allowance for me to make a point of order, Chairperson. You cannot prevent me from making a point of order. You have been consistently telling me to sit down and refusing to take my point of order!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): So, you refuse to sit down!
Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: Chairperson, I want to request that this be referred to the rules and ethics because you are refusing to allow me to make my point of order.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Yes, it’s fine!
Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: So, can it be referred, please!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Yes; yes!
Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: So, can I now make my point of order?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Take your seat!
Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: So, you would refer it, Chairperson, to the rules and ethics!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Take your seat!
Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: Chairperson, you have to acknowledge my point of order!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Engelbrecht, you are consistently disobeying my order. I’ve requested you a number of times to take your seat. So, can you leave the House? Can we be assisted; ushers, can we be assisted? [Interjections.]
No, I don’t need any assistance; I don’t need any assistance! It is section 37(1)(c), the member’s conduct is grossly disorderly and you are requested to leave the House. Can you leave the House? [Interjections.] Can you take your seat! Hon Terblanche, let me recognise you!
Mr O S TERBLANCHE: Just put it on reckord ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Come nearer your mike!
Mr O S TERBLANCHE: Thank you. Chairperson, I’m standing on a point of order, sir! With all due respect, Chairperson, I don’t think the member was in any way disorderly or whatever, she stood on a point of order. I just want to ask ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Terblanche, it is the same ruling I have made to hon Mokwele, therefore, you can’t contest a ruling. I have made a ruling and if you’ve got a problem on my
ruling you can follow the procedure, that’s why we’ve got rules in the NCOP. Just follow the procedure that is subjected to the necessary process. Can you take your seat!
Mr J W W JULIUS: House Chairperson, it would have been much easier to afford the member a point of order like you do to me now. There wouldn’t be such issues. However, let me raise my point of order: Hon Mokwele stood at the back there and I am sure you heard her when she said you are not calling the bouncers because she is white. [Interjections.]
Ms T J MOKWELE: Yes, I said so!
Mr J W W JULIUS: Yes, she agrees that she said so. Right? I want you to rule on that. [Interjections.]
Ms N P KONI: Why? Is she black? [Interjections.]
Mr J W W JULIUS: Chair, can you protect me?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Ja!
Mr J W W JULIUS: Can you protect me from the VBS thieves there! [Interjections.] Please protect me from the thieves; the VBS thieves! [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Julius! Hon Julius!
Mr J W W JULIUS: Can you please rule on that? [Interjections.] Can we name people by race in this House? Members by race! [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Julius! Take a seat, all of you. Can you take your seat? Ja, can you take your seat? Hon members, hon Julius, you are raising a point of order. Before I could even make a ruling, you made some serious allegations and you are complicating my ruling. [Interjections.] Let me do it this way: Hon members, the decorum of the House depends entirely on us. Let us refrain from doing anything that we do which compromises the decorum of the House.
I am appealing to all of you, including yourself hon Mokwele, hon Koni, hon Julius and all of you. I don’t want to entertain what you have started. I know that it will degenerate to be something else. We have got a serious business: A motion sponsored by hon Khawula
that we have to get to, instead of getting to sideways issues. Hon Mokwele, can you take your seat? I am not taking any point of order.
I am appealing to all of you: Let us refrain from doing anything that will compromise the decorum of the House. I am appealing to all of you; I am not entertaining any point of order. [Applause.] Hon members, allow me to take his opportunity ... [Interjections.] No, I am not taking anything now! Hon Mokwele, I am not taking any point of privilege and I am not taking any point of order. We are moving to the next item. No, can you ... [Interjections.] Hon Julius! Hon Julius! I am appealing to all of you, including yourself. And, don’t assist me; I am dealing with her. I can handle the situation.
Allow me to take this opportunity to welcome the special delegates, MECs and the Minister present today. [Applause.] The secretary will read the first order of the day. We now come to the subject for discussion as printed in the Order Paper: Debate on the accountability and monitoring by the Department of Water and Sanitation that lead to substandard quality of bulk infrastructure and the inability of National Treasury to take action against corruption, with reference to bulk infrastructure to retrieve some of the money wasted. Allow me to invite hon Khawula to open the debate.
Setswana:
Moh T J MOKWELE: ... o eme a bua ka mananeo a mabedi.
English:
There is an item on the Order Paper...
Setswana:
... e a rileng o kopa gore ...
English:
... we must postpone it to another day. You must be focused Chair. Let us deal with that one.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): You are very correct. Thank you for the correction. The issue is that Order No 1 on the Order Paper be deferred to the next sitting of the House.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Motion accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
DEBATE ON THE LACK OF ACCOUNTABILITY AND MONITORING BY THE DEPARTMENT OF WATER AND SANITATION THAT LEADS TO SUBSTANDARD QUALITY OF BULK INFRASTRUCTURE; AND THE INABILITY OF NATIONAL TREASURY TO TAKE ACTION, AGAINST CORRUPTION WITH REFERENCE TO THE BULK INFRASTRUCTURE, TO RETRIEVE SOME OF THE MONEY WASTED
(Subject for discussion)
Mr M KHAWULA: Honourable House Chairperson, hon Minister, Hon MEC Ndou, Members of Parliament in the NCOP, special delegates, ladies and gentlemen, I am humbled and honoured to present this debate to the House on an important subject sponsored by the United Democratic Movement for discussion in the House. On behalf of both the IFP and the UDM, I express our gratitude to the hon Chief Whip, hon Mohai and the NCOP Whippery for being flexible to our arrangement.
The concerns which led to this debate arise from the Select Committee on Appropriation’s oversight visit to the Oliver Reginald Tambo District Municipality in the Eastern Cape from 30 July 2018 to 03 August 2018. The objective of the oversight visit was to assess the Municipal Infrastructure Grant Expenditure and projects under construction in that district. Whilst the findings under discussion
are about the visit to the OR Tambo District Municipality, the problems and challenges encountered cut across the length and breadth of South Africa.
It is a given, an open secret and everybody’s conclusion that during the past five years, the Department of Water and Sanitation has dismally failed the people of South Africa on its mandate to deliver clean water to our communities, especially the rural communities of our county.
The dictionary meaning of accountability is the fact of being responsible for what you do and able to give satisfactory reason for it or the degree to which this happens. Further descriptions are that in ethics and governance, accountability is answerability, blameworthiness, liability, and the expectation of account giving.
This is what this discussion is about – a department that gets given funds by Parliament to provide water services to the people of South Africa, but the services provided are not the standard expected of it or has not been provided at all.
In a public sector accountability context, integrity is about exercising power in a way that is true to the values, purposes and duties for which that power is entrusted or held. The OR Tambo
District Municipality has repeatedly received a qualified audit report opinion from the Auditor-General of South Africa for the past three financial years in succession, due to the issues of non- accountability and poor governance.
The OR Tambo District Municipality incurred irregular expenditure amounting to R995 million in 2014-l5, R1,1 billion in 2015-l6 and R679 million 2016–17. From the Auditor-General’s report, the main contributors to this irregular expenditure were reported to be: Inappropriate deviations; inappropriate use of Regulation 32; the preference point system not being applied to bids above R30 000; and the Bid Adjudication Committees not in line with prescripts. The Auditor-General further established that, in this municipality...
IsiZulu:
... kukwaMachanca kwampunzi edla emini.
English:
Oversight controls by all stakeholders are weak, the level of non- compliance in terms of the municipality’s supply chain management policy is at an unacceptably high level, leadership has not demonstrated a zero-tolerance stance towards noncompliance with regulations and consequence management to transgressors is zero.
The select committee conducted inspections in-loco in the following water and sanitation projects: Mangxamfu Water Supply Scheme in Mhlontlo Local Municipality. Construction at this project started in 2015. At the time of the visit, expenditure was at R35,3 million from the approved amount of R39,8 million. The committee found that: There was a disturbing poor workmanship; sub-standard material was being used; one reservoir had been constructed with prefabricated material with metal sheeting and a second reservoir still under construction comprised of cement casted blocks with shoddy workmanship reflecting holes and patches. Labourers that were engaged on sight reported that payment for days worked was sometimes not received and in some instances, full amounts due to them were not paid and sometimes the number of labour days worked were reduced.
The committee requested a detailed breakdown of the R35,3 million paid to that date and this has never been forwarded to the NCOP up to this day. Three years later, this project has not yet been completed.
During the visit to the Libode Waste Water Treatment Works, Phase 1A in Nyandeni Local Municipality, the project was under construction and the project cost was R45,3 million. Construction was at 20% at
Rl4,2 million already spent. There were challenges experienced pertaining to a land claim by the Mdlankomo-Moyeni communities under Inkosi Jongintaba.
This had caused stoppages in construction. Health concerns were raised here as it appeared that some plots adjacent to the plant were earmarked for housing purposes. This pointed to challenges of poor design and poor monitoring by all stakeholders concerned.
The Nyandeni Ward 4 Sanitation project was for the construction of 706 VIP toilets and was due to be completed in April 2018.
Completion date was revised to July 2018 because along the way, the ward councillor requested an additional 150 toilets. Whilst this is good and concerned leadership, it is however pointing to poor planning.
The project was also not compliant to the Department of Water and Sanitation regulations but the project manager on sight was not aware of this transgression - also indicating poor planning and poor monitoring by the department.
The KSD P1 Bulk Water Package 6: Libode Corridor is a R127 million project. At the time of the visit, expenditure was at R53 million
with 50% of work done. The committee observed challenges of poor performance by contractors which was reported to be a result of cash flow problems. It was also reported that there was late delivery of steel pipes which would definitely delay the completion date. The contractor had also failed to comply with the Municipal Infrastructure Grant, MIG, 30% regulation pertaining to local subcontractors in the project.
The KSD P1 Bulk Water Package 7: Ngqeleni Corridor project cost was R178 million. At the time of the visit, expenditure was at
R96 million. The project was suffering poor performance due to cash flow problems. Poor supply chain management was seen as a reason for poor performance because the municipality is appointing contractors who do not have capacity for work to be done. It was raised as a concern by the committee that the identity of the main contractor was not known by all officials that were in the company of the delegation.
The Coffee Bay Regional Water Supply in KSD Local Municipality project was supposed to start in 2012 but only started in 2014 due to litigation. The original budget was R178 million but had escalated to R217 million. During the visit, expenditure was at R211 million. The project was experiencing problems of poor cash
flow, delays by ESKOM to install power, non-availability of water from the current treatment plant and the expired notification of works.
The committee was very concerned about the authenticity and validity of information provided at this project. The OR Tambo District Municipality committed to supply more information to provide clarity and further details on expenditure, labour and training given but this has never been received up to this day.
The KSD Upper Mhlahlane Waste Water Treatment Works: Phase 3A project was supposed to cost R22,6 million but was approved for R24,8 million. A variation order for R2,1 million was reported to have been approved. At the time of the visit, expenditure was at R24,7 million.
Almost all the OR Tambo District Municipality water and sanitation projects are very clever; contingency fees are used to settle variation orders which are incorporated to the projects and variation orders are almost the same amount as the contingency fees.
The Tsolo Waste Water Treatment Works project was planned at R152,6 million. At the time of the visit, expenditure was at
R110 million. Of all the projects visited by the committee, this was the only project with which the committee was happy with its workmanship, planning, time-frames and expenditure reports.
Hon Chairperson and hon Minister, these challenges of deficiencies in water projects are not peculiar only to the OR Tambo District Municipality which was visited by the committee. For example, in 2012, the Umkhanyakude District Municipality in KwaZulu-Natal spent R73 million to buy steel pipes which are still lying in the bush unused in 2018. It appears that this was merely a scheme to contract service providers who are connected to the powers that be so that government money could be spent on a service that was not a necessity.
The NCOP has recently visited the Alfred Nzo District Municipality. The water service delivery challenges experienced in that district are not different from the challenges in OR Tambo District Municipality. In the rural areas people do not get supplied with clean water. Money is spent on projects that never get finished. If they are lucky to be completed, it will take ages and decades for such completion. Millions and millions of rands are spent on consultants without any clear indication of skills transfer to the locals. Opening balances and financial statements provided by the
municipalities to the Auditor-General and to relevant departments are found to be misleading and incorrect; causing material misstatements that is ongoing from year to year.
There is poor monitoring and poor oversight on projects by all councils on the municipalities. There is noncompliance to the project specifications of the department. But because the department itself hardly monitors the work done, this is never detected on time.
The projects are suffering poor workmanship which highly compromises value for money on projects. In many projects in OR Tambo district, like it is happening elsewhere in the country, same consultants, contractors and service providers are being utilised for almost all the projects.
This shows that it is not only the national government that has suffered capturing by certain individuals. The capturing business at local government level is very deep. This raises concern about flouting of supply chain management processes and possible fronting. Some projects are possibly constructed by service providers who are employees of the municipality and had not declared any interest.
Some municipal employees and some councillors are both a referee and a player in the awarding of projects at local government level. It has to be noted that accountability failures have a huge impact in derailing governance. It is the impact of accountability failures that has led to the total collapse of governance in the North West province, resulting in the national government invoking section 100 (1)(a) and (1)(b) of the Constitution.
Some concerns constantly raised by the Auditor General of South Africa on the audit outcomes of the country are that the root causes of accountability failures are, amongst other things: management fails to respond with the required urgency to ensure improvement in audit outcomes; political leadership and oversight bodies usually demonstrate limited political will to ensure accountability and consequence management; there is lack of capacity due to prolonged vacancies and instability in key positions; the controls that enable reliable and timeous financial and performance reporting are not institutionalised; and that both political and management leadership does not set an example of accountability.
The good example of all this is the municipal manager at the OR Tambo District Municipality. He frankly refused to own up to all these deficiencies. Instead he wrote a follow-up submission claiming
that the National Treasury and the Auditor General’s office misrepresented the facts in their presentations. He also claimed that some of the matters raised were out of context.
The Mayor of OR Tambo District Municipality was never once in any of these engagements and oversight visits. The Municipal Manager only appeared just once, on the first day, and never again participated. Whilst the committee had left a directive that municipal officials responsible for inaccurate reporting should be held accountable, and that within three months, steps taken on them should be reported to Parliament, nothing has ever been done or reported up to this day.
Hon members, we need to do proper introspection when it comes to spending taxpayer’s hard earned money and we need to do so knowing the responsibility that has been bestowed upon us in representing the needs of our communities.
No one deserves to be stolen from, no one deserves to be subjected to drink dirty or contaminated water and no one deserves to wait for a number of years before their pleas for help are heard.
Hon Chairperson, the IFP has long held that we must have an effective, efficient, responsive, accountable and good clean
government. We cannot stand by and watch our public entities, departments and councils lose the trust of our people.
In conclusion, hon members, let us work together, reach across the aisle and find solutions which work for the people who elected us here to represent their interests and needs. I thank you Chair.
Ms L L ZWANE: Hon House Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Members of Parliament, guests, ladies and gentlemen, South Africa in spite of difficulties, large complex societies marked by profound socioeconomic inequalities and navigating the changing global economy, it is still a much better country than it was in 1994 when the ANC-led government took over under the leadership of President Nelson Mandela, rescuing the country from those that had actually denied the rights of the majority of the citizens.
The population of South Africa has grown from 58%, also from 45,8 million to 55,2 million. The provision of water for this population has grown from 58% to 87% as we speak. The ANC-led government is a government whose fundamentals include accountability. We are a democratically elected organisation or
movement and therefore it is fundamental for us to account to the electorate and the citizens and we do so. Dealing with corruption is
the priority of the Department of Water and Sanitation. The Department of Water and Sanitation is a crucial vehicle towards ensuring that our people live dignified and quality lives. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mangethe, sorry, there is a point of order. Hon Mokwele.
Ms T J MOKWELE: With due respect Chair, the ANC does not rule Africa. There is no country called Africa. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, hon Mokwele, hon Mokwele. [Interjections.]
Ms T J MOKWELE: The ANC is in control of South Africa. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, hon Mokwele, if you want to ask a member a question ... [Interjections.]
Ms T J MOKWELE: No, I am not asking. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): It is within the rights. You can ascertain whether a member is ready to take a question.
Ms T J MOKWELE: No, no no, I am not asking a question. I am clarifying. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): You cannot be debating with the member at the podium. [Interjections.]
Ms T J MOKWELE: No, I am telling you that she is misleading South Africa. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, you cannot do that. [Interjections.]
Ms T J MOKWELE: The ANC does not rule Africa. It is not true. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, hon Mokwele, refrain from doing what you are doing. You cannot be debating with the speaker at the podium. You will have an opportunity as a member of the NCOP to come and debate. Can you continue hon Mangethe.
Ms L L ZWANE: The Department of Water and Sanitation is a crucial vehicle towards ensuring that our people live a dignified and quality life. This is ensured through providing, water and sanitation, a basic human right, in an efficient and effective manner.
According to the National Water Act of 1997, the role of the Department of Water and Sanitation is to protect the quality of water resources to ensure sustainability of the nation’s water resources in the interest of all the users. One of the ways of fulfilling this legal obligation is through the construction, protection and maintenance of bulk water infrastructure. This includes the building and the establishment of dams and installation of reticulation systems in South Africa.
To this extent South Africa or the Department of Water and Sanitation has established about 50 dams. The Water Services Act also highlights that, although the national government is the custodian of the nation’s water resources and infrastructure development, but all the other spheres of government have got a duty to ensure that the water supply services are provided in a manner that is efficient and sustainable.
Providing water supply through the construction and maintenance of bulk water infrastructure is a commitment of the ANC-led government and there is empirical evidence to this effect. No other party has displayed this commitment ever before. The ANC government has performed in a manner that is commendable. We have extended the access of water to those areas where the poorest of the poor live and it has never happened before.
The Department of Water and Sanitation has experienced some serious institutional challenges with far-reaching consequences. We do acknowledge the fact that much as we have made good progress in this area there has been challenges. There is widespread unauthorised, irregular, wasteful and fruitless expenditure. As the department has been appearing before the select committee these issues have been engaged and have been addressed. The department is actually attending to them.
There are poor intergovernmental relations, we need to strengthen this area. There is limited use of construction management unit in the department and we need to maximise the use of this unit. There is lack of technical capacity to deliver services and the hiring of senior officials without appropriate or required qualifications is a course of concern. [Interjections.]
The financial and nonfinancial related challenges have been flagged by the Office of the Auditor-General, National Treasury, Special Investigating Unit, and the Public Service Commission. Challenges of this nature hamper the performance of the department and negativity impact on the delivery of services to the people. As a result, Minister Gugile Nkwinti, who has just taken over the department, has recognised that the urgent need to address challenges confronting the department has to be attended to.
In his 2018 Budget Vote Speech 36, the Minister outlined how he intends to turnaround the precarious situation that is confronting the department. This illustrates commendable, committed leadership that is accountable, responsive and responsible. The sole purpose of this is to enhance the performance of the department in order for it to efficiently and effectively deliver on its constitutional mandate. There are some of the salient institutional measures that the Minister has undertaken to revitalise and reconfigure the department.
He has developed the five pillar turn-around strategy, he has conducted institutional retionalisation and organisation alignment, he has streamlined the organogram of the department for areas such as the infrastructure build and maintenance, he has reduced
construction cost by prioritising the department’s construction unit in all infrastructure build projects and he has commissioned investigations into the department; corrupt deals and tendencies by law-enforcement agencies.
Apart from making commitments at the podium, the Minister has taken active steps in seeking to resolve problems within the department and to enhance the implementation. If I were to sight examples of the bulk water in the other provinces that the Minister has embarked on is the Jozini Dam the treatment plant has been concluded there.
In the Greater Mthonjaneni, the project was supposed to be finished by September 2018. UMshwathi Bulk Water in KwaZulu-Natal again is being attended and being developed. Mthatha Bulk Water, there is an intervention there. Qushubeni Bulk Water Supply in the Eastern Cape again and the Matatiele Bulk Water Supply are being attended as we speak.
At the time we engaged with the Department of Water and Sanitation, they indicated that they have got plans for seven mega bulk water supply. Forty seven large bulk water supply projects and 46 regional bulk water supply projects, this is service delivery.
It is concerning nonetheless Minister that some of the projects have been parked. For instance, in Gert Sibande District Municipality the bulk water project there has been parked, the same as Sekhukhune District Municipality in Limpopo and the Garip District in the Free State. Umzimvubu it is pleasing to note that the design stages have been completed and the project is going to start any time from now.
A similar case of leadership that is committed to ensure that challenges in the delivery of bulk water structures can be noted in the Limpopo province. On 12 May 2018, the Minister visited Giyani Emergency Water Services Project which was the subject of poor service delivery and vandalism. The Department of Water and Sanitation is to source funding for 50 distribution reservoirs and household reticulation as well as craft a turnaround plan for the Nandoni pipeline and 35 megalitres command reservoir in order to increase the water sourcing. Further to that, the Giyani Bulk Water Project is receiving due attention of the President who is set to visit the project on Friday 9 November 2018. The purpose of the President’s visit is to accelerate service delivery to communities and understand what led to the spending of R3,5 billion on the project, but no access of water to the people. [Interjections.]
These two examples demonstrate a political will on the part of the ANC-led government to ensure that people are not deprived of what is rightfully supposed to be delivered.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mangethe, I am afraid your time has expired. [Applause.]
Ms L L ZWANE: In conclusion Chairperson, the National Treasury is not in position to act on officials that are actually involved in corruption. It is the department’s initial prerogative to ensure that those are dealt with and then their names are submitted once the allegations have been proven. Thank you, Chairperson. [Time expired.]
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members of this House and fellow South Africans, irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditure is endemic in the National Department of Water and Sanitation. At the beginning of this year, the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa, held a meeting where they tried to elicit answers from the Department of Water and Sanitation on its irregular, wasteful expenditure which had previously been identified in briefings.
They focussed on borehole expenditure on the Giyani area in Limpopo where the total budget of R1,3 billion had exceeded cost and has been doubled. When asked to provide the committee with details relating to the validation and verification report, the department was unable to produce it. Given this report conducted by Ernst and Young we were left with two possible reasons for the inability of the department to account. Firstly, they were aware of the content of this report. Secondly, they were unwilling to share the findings with the committee.
Either way, both options are problematic. There are attempts to absolve the department of its constitutional duties, monitoring being accountable to its mandate. Last year, Cape Town faced a major water crisis, hon Nyambi, which threatened to leave us without water. When former Minister Nomvula Mokonyane was questioned, she made it clear that it was the role of her department to get involved in interventions. This is unacceptable. Hon Nyambi, can I have your protection?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, I have appealed to all of you, heckling is allowed but you cannot be drowning the speaker at the podium.
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Chairperson, this is unacceptable considering she could have easily addressed this life threatening issue by giving the crisis a national status. Her department focus was not assisting Cape Town residents with accessing this basic constitutional human right but rather to play politics with this matter of survival. Furthermore, she maliciously and intentionally – wenza ngabomu - attempted to safely frame this issue as the sole responsibility of the Western Cape provincial government, once more avoiding accountability for her department’s own responsibilities as mandated by the National Water Act of 1998.
Mr M M CHABANGU: Hon House Chairperson, on a point of order, is it parliamentary for a member to debate while wearing a DA dress?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, hon Chabangu, you are out of order. This is not the party regalia.
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Chairperson, this October, the department received another qualified audit opinion. Considering the department’s lack of leadership and various financial deviations over the years, including duplicate payment spending on projects not budgeted for and payments for incomplete jobs. These recent individual issues are merely the tip of the iceberg. There is ever-
present team but lacks accountability and monitoring which led to a common failure of her department to provide quality infrastructure. How can expect the department to meet constitutional and legislative duties, provide sufficient and quality water and sanitation to citizens when that has been budgeted for is irregularly written off as irregular and wasteful expenditure? Hon Minister, this is your question. How can we reasonably expect leadership and personnel to follow diligently when there is a consistent lack of availability that is being promoted from the top downwards?
The department requires a major shift of attitude, hon Chair. We require honesty for once, about what needs to change. It is a waste of time, resources and expenses to hold hearings when we are met with substandard efforts and responsibilities. It is embarrassing Chairperson, shame on the ANC. I am disappointed that the appointed Ministers are allowing these problems to persist and flourish.
The DA has an offer to make and this is our offer: Firstly, we will get the right people into right positions for the purpose and not the cadres by providing incentives for retired engineers to re-enter the sector. They will in turn provide mentorship to young engineers and technologists to add and fill critical vacancies. The training
and up skilling of water personnel is vital if we wish not to use costly private consultants.
Secondly, we will improve bulk storage capacity through dam and reservoir buildings where capacity is underdeveloped. Thirdly, we will identify viable opportunities to transfer water from basins and promote the re-use of water. Water resiliency is vital today with global climate change and increasing water. Lastly, we will ensure that, in our municipalities, regular updated water services and development plans as we provide ongoing assistance ensuring that they maintain the green and drop blue water certification.
In Cape Town, we invested in water waste treatment works to improve treated effluent water and keep pace of the rapidly growing town.
Cape Town recycled 8% of all water used and has reduced water losses to half the national average. Despite the population growth of 30% since 2 000, the city has flat lined consumption. Where we govern, not only do we offer greater transparency and accountability but our policies also provide a better offer to improve our water resources. We will ensure that all South Africans have access to water and will create one South Africa for all; giving equal opportunities and fairness across racial divides.
IsiXhosa:
Ndiyabulela Sihlalo, maz’enethole.
Mr T DUBA (Eastern Cape Chairperson-Economic Development, Environmental and Tourism): Hon Chairperson, hon Members of the NCOP, Minister of Water and Sanitation, MECs present, director- generals senior government officials and guests, I bring you revolutionary greetings from the Eastern Cape the home of legends. Thank you for inviting us to this critical debate which affects ordinary citizens and the black masses in particular.
Without a doubt, substandard quality of bulk infrastructure contributes to the inaccessibility of basic services such as water and sanitation for many of our citizens. The Bill of Rights which is a cornerstone of what democracy states that “everyone has an inherent dignity and to have their dignity respected and protected”
It goes on to explain that “everyone has an inherent right of access to sufficient water, and that the state must take reasonable legislative and other measures, within its available resources, to achieve the progressive realisation of each of these rights.
Insufficient or lack of quality of bulk infrastructure in relation to the provision of water and sanitation is a direct contravention of the Constitution of South Africa.
Therefore, it is important that we not only debate this important issue for the sake of debating, but take steps to resolve the problem. We would not be able to do that if we are going to approach this debate with a party line approach. The people have placed us in these corridors to meaningfully bring change in their lives, this debate will be meaningless if it does not translate to a change of heart and will improve the quality of services to the people.
As legislators, we cannot relegate this task to the Executive, thus we’re equally responsible to ensure that the Executive delivers on its constitutional obligations. We must commend the progress that has been made by the democratic government to increase access to pipe or tap water in our communities. By the end of 2015, 89% of the households in South Africa had access to piped water either off site or on site according to Statistics SA. The same study revealed that by 2015 there was a decline in the percentage of households who lived more than 200 metres away from the outside yard toilet facility. But Mr Mnqakwane, I want to say to you, we cannot over celebrate these results. Not when we still have news articles headlined “Poor sanitation a huge stink for Eastern Cape residents.
In part, this article Mr Mnqakwane reads thus: “For residents of Flagstaff in the Eastern Cape, basic sanitation services remain a failing and recurring nightmare, with raw sewage running down the streets of the town, no running water for weeks at a time, and patients at the local clinic forced to relieve themselves in an open field, nothing out of the ordinary. Efforts by the local municipality have borne little fruits and the town, its residents and businesses have come to accept this as their normal and have learned to adapt”.
I am sure you would agree with me that this is the predicament that many of our people find themselves in, even in other provinces. It is what must keep us awake at night so that we can find lasting solutions to it.
We agree that a huge problem facing our government is our inability to monitor and evaluate government programmes and projects that are aimed at delivering services to the people. I think we can all agree that weak monitoring and evaluation system is a general problem facing our government. We have become too comfortable in our offices hence we wake up after multibillion projects have come to a complete stop in many of our communities with money paid for work that has not been done or for shoddy work.
As legislators we must also take the blame for not doing enough site visits to major projects to monitor and evaluate what is happening.
South Africa is one of the countries that are still struggling to promote a culture of monitoring and evaluation findings that inform decision making and governance. It is for the reason highlighted above that we have high levels of corruption and fraud both in the public and private sectors. Corruption eats away the moral fibre of any society and deprives the least developed sections of society what is due to them in terms of their rights and commitments made by government.
We need to improve on our monitoring and evaluation systems in order to ensure that we effectively assess the work of improving the lives of the people in our country. The National Evaluation Policy Framework sets out the objectives of evaluation as. improving policy, improving accountability, improving decision-making, increasing knowledge about what works and what does not with regards to public policy, plan, programme, or project. From the objectives that I have just highlighted, it is clear that investment in improving monitoring and evaluation will help us to resolve the problem of substandard quality of bulk infrastructure.
Hon Chair, the problem of substandard bulk infrastructure also has a negative impact on economic growth. As you would know the Eastern Cape is one of the provinces with a slow growing economy, which is compounded by the inability to attract investment. From the R290 billion investments that were announced at the recently held investment conference, less than R20 billion will be going to the Eastern Cape. Poor and inadequate quality of bulk infrastructure is a contributing factor for the inability to attract investments. As you would know the Eastern Cape is a largely rural province, with a significant population living in remote rural areas. Unemployment in our province is the highest in the country which is one of the reasons for the high rates of migration to other provinces and an overconcentration of populations to urban areas.
As the Eastern Cape Province, we are committed to creating an enabling environment for job creation and for businesses to prosper. We cannot do so when we have substandard quality of bulk infrastructure. We agree with the sentiments expressed by the Minister of Finance that we need to build a culture of public service investment rather than public service consumption. Steps to improve the quality of bulk infrastructure are one of the ways where
we can promote public service investment as it has a multiplying effect on other economic drivers.
This is a year of renewal, unity and jobs. A year to celebrate 100 years of Nelson Mandela and Albertina Sisulu. We owe it to them and their generation to ensure that there is access to clean water and sanitation for every citizen in South African irrespective of race, political affiliation or creed. As the home province of these outstanding giants of our people, we want to assure you that the Eastern Cape government will support endeavours to improve the provision of bulk infrastructure including working with the Department of Water and Sanitation to help monitor and provide oversight over the bulk infrastructure projects in the province. I thank you.
Ms N P KONI: Thank you very much, Chair. I was still warming my 2019 seat there.
Setswana:
Gompieno re bua ka lefapha lengwe, le eleng gore go senyegile, go a nkga ebile go bodile ko lefaphaleng leo le le neng le eteletswe pele ke mme mongwe yoo kileng a bua gangwe mo botshelong ba gagwe gore, ene ke motho yoo thibelang batho ka dibono.
English:
On 28 July 2010, the UN recognised the right to safe and clean drinking water and sanitation as a human right that is essential and full enjoyment and fulfilment of life and all human right. The Bill of Rights in section 27 of the Constitution explicitly states that everyone has a right to have access to sufficient food and water.
Over 60% of human body is made up of water and human cannot live more than three weeks without water.
To put it simply, water is one of, if not, the most important national resource which we have but the ANC government and the Department of Water and Sanitation have little appreciation of this. They are blinded by greed and or simply do not care.
South Africa is one of the most water scarce countries in the world and for the past 15 years one province or another has experience drought and water shortages, but that does not include the Western Cape because we know the reason behind the day zero – de wara de wara. [Laughter.]
Till today, in provinces like the Eastern Cape, only 48% of households have access to piped water in the house or in the yard.
While we know that there is little that can be done about the geography and weather of South Africa, the reality is that this department is doing nothing, not only to make South Africans a more water secure country but it has also failed in its ability to deliver water to the people of South Africa. In fact, this department has only made the situation worse. This is because Ministers are being recycled.
What can you expect when a Minister as compromised and incompetent as the former Minister of Water and Sanitation, hon Nomvula Mokonyane headed the department?
Setswana:
Thiba ka dibono.
English:
The reason we are having this debate today is because of the failures, mismanagement and incompetence. In a question for written reply we asked if tenders for the Giyani Water Project was advertised; and the response from the department was that a tender was not advertised for the Giyani Water Project in Limpopo as it was regarded as an emergency project to drill boreholes and refurbish waste water treatment works. If it was such an emergency that
tenders could not be advertised why was they are no agency in completing the project?
The answer is simple, the fact that the Giyani Water Project was an emergency was so opportunistically used by the Minister and the department to award tenders to companies who were connected to members of the ruling party so that they could enrich themselves at the expense of the people of Giyani.
The project was worth R3,5 billion and till today contractors are owed money and the people of Giyani remain without water. Instead, they are forced to drink, wash, cook and clean from the same water that is dangerous and denies them of their most basic right and dignity. The Giyani Water Project is best example of how the ANC government has abandoned our people. What happened in Giyani is a violation of the Constitution and people must be held accountable for this.
We have sent questions for written reply about the water project but we still have not received any answers. However, we want to say that the Giyani Water Project is just one example of how the Department Water and Sanitation is failing to do its job. This department is in crisis. The department is not only failing to build water
infrastructure but it doesn’t even have the capacity to maintain the current water infrastructure. In 2017 over 1,3 trillion litres of water was lost in to leaks in South Africa. That is over 50 litres of water per South African everyday.
If the department and government at all levels including provincial and local were actually committed and fixed these leaks many of the problems we see today in every province of this country, not only in Limpopo but also in the Western Cape would not exist. The Department of Water and Sanitation is a mess and that is a fact.
We call upon all those involved in the failure to maintain our water infrastructure and the failure of the Giyani project to be held accountable for the inability to provide the most basic of human rights to the people of Giyani and the whole South Africans. Thank you.
Sepedi:
Moh T K MAMPURU: Modulasetulo, e re ke le lemoše gore bogaditšong ke bjo bothata, bo swana le lehufa - le ge o ka le apea letšatši le lengwe le le lengwe, ga le butšwe.
English:
On behalf of the ANC allow me to present my speech in the year where we commemorate and honour their profound contributions, there is no better way to celebrate stalwarts of the ANC, President Nelson Rohlihlala Mandela and Mama Albertina Nontsikelelo Sisulu, than to espouse and entrench the pertinent values of the movement such as loyalty, integrity and honesty which seem to have diminished in the work of the Department of Water and Sanitation.
The Department of Water and Sanitation should always strive to deliver on its mandate of developing and protecting our water resources in a manner that is proper and complies with the constitutional obligation to provide reliable and sustainable access to water for all. The provision of bulk water infrastructure is at the heart of ensuring that our people receive a reliable and sustainable supply of water in South Africa. It is through the work done by the ANC-led government which we will reiterate when we ascend this podium or whenever we come across each other in the passage and commitments made in the ANC’s 2014 manifesto, that the importance of water infrastructure is highlighted and elevated. It is the ANC and no other party that has committed and continues to work towards: Firstly, ensuring provision to the poor and vulnerable who do not have access to clean, safe and adequate water; secondly, accelerating the provision of water infrastructure; and thirdly
accelerating the roll-out of basic water and sanitation infrastructure in rural areas.
Sepedi:
Gape ga go thuše, Modulasetulo, batho ba ba lla kudu, ba na le matamo, efela ba fetiša le moopedi wa Kulenyane ka go lla, ka go re letšatši le lengwe seeta sa Kulenyane o tla se hwetša. [Disego.]
English:
Just like in the manifesto, the Medium-Term Strategic Framework and the budget breakdown of the Department of Water and Sanitation emphasises the call for the development and investment in bulk water infrastructure in order to improve infrastructure backlogs and enhance service delivery in municipalities with performance challenges? Estimates of national expenditure compiled by National Treasury reflect that the budget of the department has predominately been earmarked for infrastructure development between the 2013-14 and the 2017-18 financial years.
Sepedi:
Rena re le mmušo re sa na le kholofelo ya gore Kgoro ya Meetse le Hlwekišo yeo e lego diatleng tša Tona ya rena Gugile Nkwinti, e tšwela pele ka gobane le Jehovah yoo a nago le maatla; yoo a
hlotšego dilo kamoka ga tšona, ga se a ka a di hlola ka letšatši le letee. O tšeere matšatši a tshela go hlola dilo tšeo kamoka ga tšona. Taba ye ga se ya ba ya nakwana; ga ke tsebe gore Bibele le e bala ka semphekgo goba le e lebeleditše fase naa. [Tsenoganong.] Ke nnete, ga se a di hlola ka letšatši le letee.
English:
Water Infrastructure Development is allocated approximately 80% of the department’s budget. This programme is responsible for the construction of mega ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mampuru? Sorry, hon Mampuru. Can I recognise hon Essack. Hon Essack, why are you standing?
Mr F ESSACK: House Chairperson, I would like to ask the member at the podium a simple question.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mampuru, are you ready to take a question from hon Essack? [Interjections.] No, she is not ready to take a question. Hon Essack, she is not ready to take a question. Continue, hon Mampuru.
Ms T K MAMPURU: This programme is responsible for the construction of mega, large and small regional bulk water and sanitation infrastructures. It is this investment in infrastructure development that has led to successful implementation and roll-out of projects such as ... “ba a di tseba!” [“they know them!”] ... Clanwillam Dam in the Western Cape - they know it, and Cornelis River Dam in the Free State.
Sepedi:
Ga go na ye ba sa e tsebego. O a e tseba! O se ke wa tla wa ikgakantšha mo!
English:
You are in charge! Driefontein Bulk Water Supply in KwaZulu-Natal, Makgeru-Shoonoord Bulk Water Project in Limpopo “moo ke tšwago” [where I come from], Lesotho Highlands Water Phase 1 and Ncora Bulk Water Project in Eastern Cape.
We are pleased to note that the department will continue to focus on developing bulk raw water and water services infrastructure through funding raw, regional and local infrastructure projects. Although there have been commendable successes in the delivery of bulk water infrastructure, the department has been subject to serious financial
management shortcomings in the delivery of other projects. Because we know what we are doing ...
Sepedi:
... le diphošo tša rena ga re di gane, ka gobane re a tseba gore re tšwetša mošomo pele.
English:
This poor performance is unacceptable and we are pleased as the ANC that issues of financial misconduct around certain projects are receiving due attention.
Sepedi:
Ke seo Tona a re boditšego sona gore yena o tšwela pele ka go hlokomela kgoro ya gagwe.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mampuru, let me recognise hon Mokwele. Hon Mokwele?
Ms T J MOKWELE: Can I stand on a point of order, House Chair? I was saying that if TK wants to talk about corruption, she should not call it financial mismanagement. She should put it straight that it
is corruption. It is not financial mismanagement, it is corruption, “tsala” [friend.]. It should be called corruption.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele, you are assisting in the debate, you know very well. Continue, hon Mampuru.
Sepedi:
Moh T K MAMPURU: Modulasetulo, sejahlapi ke se sethata; a re se tlogele ka gobane se tlile ka sekepe - ga se segagaborena. [Disego.]
English:
The Public Finance Management Act of 1999 clearly outlines the conduct expected from public servants when performing their duties that involve the expenditure of public funds. The Public Finance Management Act regulates financial management and ensures that all revenue and expenditure is managed ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Sorry hon Mampuru, let me recognise hon Chabangu.
IsiZulu:
Mk T K MAMPURU: Hawu, madoda!
English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Chabangu, why are you standing?
Mr M M CHABANGU: On a point of order, House Chair. Can the hon member please slow down, she is too fast, we can’t hear.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, hon Chabangu ... [Interjections.] ... that is not a point of order; it is her time. Take your seat.
Ms T K MAMPURU: That’s my character, you can never succeed with that.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Continue, honourable. I have made a ruling. [Interjections.] Hon Mampuru, don’t bother. Do not bother to respond. Continue.
Ms T K MAMPURU: Sorry, House Chair. According to chapter 3 and chapter 4 of the Public Finance Management Act, national and provincial departments should fulfil their duties and comply with procedures that prevent unauthorised, irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditure and losses resulting from criminal conduct, implementing effective, efficient and transparent systems of
financial and risk management and internal controls is also prescribed by the Act and deemed a necessary requirement for proper financial management.
Sepedi:
Ke a tshepha le theeleditše, akere? Ga re na dihlong tša go bolela gore re swanetše gore re dire eng. Re baetapele ebile re tseba seo re se dirang.
English:
We will reiterate. Both the office of the Auditor-General and National Treasury have highlighted that the national Department of Water and Sanitation has been found wanting ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mampuru. Sorry, hon Mampuru. Let me recognise hon Mokwele. Hon Mokwele?
Ms T J MOKWELE: Thank you, House Chair. I was saying that hon TK should organise a march in Limpopo as the ANC against ANC to make sure that this issue of corruption is attended to.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, hon Mokwele. Hon Mokwele, refrain from what you are doing, please. Continue, hon Mampuru.
Ms T K MAMPURU: House Chairperson, hon Mokwele shouldn’t mind, we are in good hands with hon Stanley Chupu Mathabatha as our premier. Our finances are in order - maybe somewhere else. [Interjections.]. These systemic challenges should be addressed within the department if its budget is to deliver the desired results of providing water and sanitation to all our people. Apart from giving guidelines on financial management, the Public Finance Management Act also sets out clear procedures that should be followed in the case of financial misconduct and specifies which authority is responsible for instituting disciplinary action for misconduct within government departments.
According to section 38(h) of Public Finance Management Act, the accounting officer of the Department of Water and Sanitation must take effective and appropriate corrective action against any official in the service of the department or trading entity who contravenes or fails to comply with a provision of the Act.
Furthermore, chapter 10 of Public Finance Management Act sets out that disciplinary proceedings and action should be instituted by the Minister in the event of suspected financial misconduct.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mampuru, sorry. Hon Essack, why are you standing?
Mr F ESSACK: House Chairperson, if you can ask the member to sit down then I can address you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mampuru, can you take your seat.
Ms T K MAMPURU: You are not presiding and I will never listen to you until I am instructed by the Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mampuru, both of you are out of order. [Interjections.] Both of you are out of order. Hon Essack, you don’t have the right to instruct her to take a seat. Hon mampuru, you don’t have the right to respond directly to hon Essack. Hon Essack, what is your point of order?
Mr F ESSACK: House Chairperson, look, with due respect ... you know, the member at the podium is to a certain extend really demoralising and misleading South Africans. Through you House Chairperson, I appeal to you to please ask the member at the podium to take my question.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mampuru, this time around, are you ready to take a question?
Ms T K MAMPURU: I am not ready.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): She is not ready. [Laughter.] Take your seat, hon Essack.
Sepedi:
Mna F ESSACK: O tšhaba eng? [Tsenoganong.]
English:
Ms T K MAMPURU: You have got nothing to ask!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Essack, take your seat.
Mr F ESSACK: Of course, no problem, House Chair.
Ms T K MAMPURU: He has nothing to ask. I have no question to take. Furthermore, chapter 10 of the Public Finance Management Act sets out that disciplinary proceedings and action should be instituted by the Minister in the event of suspected financial misconduct. The Minister of Water and Sanitation, Minister Gugile Nkwinti has
followed the prescripts of the Public Finance Management Act to the latter by reporting financial misconduct to National Treasury, commissioning investigations to allegations of improper action, laying criminal charges and suspending officials suspected of misconduct.
The ANC recognises that, indeed, the actions taken by the Minister display meaningful strides towards combating and disciplining financial misconduct within the department. The legal details surrounding financial mismanagement matters in the department are under judicial consideration and are therefore prohibited from public discussion. The status of the legal matters might have misled opposition to false assumptions that nothing is being done to hold officials accountable. That is the question hon Essack wanted to ask me, now he must listen very carefully.
We implore Minister Nkwinti to administer appropriate consequence management once the legal matters have been concluded, where applicable. No wrongdoing will be swept under the carpet or condoned under the watch of the ANC-led government.
Sepedi:
Mogologolo o re: “Go leka noka ga se go wela, go wela ke go boeletša.”
English:
Minister, challenges are gifts that force us to search for a new centre of gravity. Don’t fight them, just find a new way to stand. Thank you, House Chair. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Hon Chairperson, I really appreciate the debate and contributions that all members have made. This is a very complicated matter. Actually, the debate is about the question of accountability and our institutions of oversights – the role that they would have played in a situation like this. I like that. Imagine what hon Duba was saying - legislatures to ensure that they enforce accountability by enforcing the fact that people do things according to book. Thank you very much.
We have said in this House that we will do the best we can to get the situation turnaround as soon as possible and as quickly as possible. We went to two places: one which is regarded as the worst which continues to be Giyani; and the other one which is less difficult, and is Clanwilliam Dam in the Western Cape. That was in May. We wanted to have a sense of how things are going in both
because the one was a challenge regarding to how we could use internal construction unit to lift the wall of the dam, as hon member has said. Generally speaking, that was an easy one because as we speak there is work going on now. From 08 October the internal unit is working there and this has cut the price from what could have been R300 million to R171 million. It’s almost 50% reduction of costs. That’s one thing that we’ve done immediately after we said we will do so in this House.
The internal construction unit has a manufacturing plant in the Northern Cape. It’s a fact and is correct when hon member says that the pipes are lying on the side of the roads. I can’t remember who said this. Some of these pipes were imported from Spain. In Giyani, for example, the blue pipes are lying there. They were imported. But there is a plant that manufactures all these equipments that are used for dam constructions. It is in the Northern Cape and it belongs to the department. We are confident that that construction unit will do the work for us at a very low price.
We will start that in uMzimvubu. We have already scheduled that we will start on 14 January next financial year with the advanced infrastructure. The plans are done and a team of our own engineers have done them. On Monday, just a few days ago, I was in the Eastern Cape meeting with the House of Traditional Leaders to brief them in
terms of all these and also making sure that they assist us in making consultations.
Last week on Monday, I was in Limpopo particularly for Giyani, Nwamitwa Dam, De Hoop Dam in Sekukhune as well as Nandoni-Nsami connection. This is a very, very important programme. There are 55 villages in Giyani. This is a very topical issue right now. There are 55 villages, but when I was there the committee added 38. This is what we want to do there. Because we did not work or take the process as rapidly as possible forward, the community became frustrated. That’s what they told me. They were very frank and honest. They said 154 boreholes have been disrupted. They have been disrupted because people are frustrated as there is no water coming out. They see there is bulk water, but it is a systemic problem.
Hon members, just look at it carefully. It is a systemic problem because bulk water is the responsibility of national government. Reticulation is the responsibility of municipalities. At the end of it all we still have to provide them with decent sanitation. I have reflected on this things and I have said we need to find a way of dealing with this because not all municipalities have this capacity. I am working very closely with the Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Cogta. That’s why when I went to
Limpopo last week Monday I was accompanied by the Deputy Minister, Obed Bapela, the team from the Municipal Infrastructure Support Agent, Misa and so on. Fortunately, for Giyani the Mopani District Municipality has the capacity to do this work as they said to me the other day on Monday. They said, Minister, just give us a chance.
This is exactly what the Amathole District Municipality in the Eastern Cape was saying in terms of sanitation. When we were attending the funeral of the late MEC Makupula, the mayor of the district said to me, Minister, please, give us back the function. I have the capacity to do it. [Interjections.]
Ms T J MOKWELE: It was informal! But it was informal!
The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: They remind me of yesterday’s circus in the House. [Laughter.] So, I am very, very happy about honourable Nkakareng, the district mayor of Mopani. To me she represents exactly what South Africans want. She brought and showed me the officials, the engineers and she said... [Interjections.]
Ms T J MOKWELE: Is it a she?
The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Yes, she is a woman. These hon members don’t think that a woman can be as good as I. It’s very
unfortunate that women cannot see a woman being capable. So she said we have the capacity, here they are. We can do the work. We can do whatever reticulation grade with our own internal capacities.
One of the technologies that we want to implement is solar power. We want to draw water from those 154 boreholes and get it into the households using solar. You can deal with sanitation and you can also deal with water supply which is clean from underground even before we deal with the question of reticulation from the bulk infrastructure. That’s what we are going to do now. That’s why I am very excited as I am standing here. As soon as the community agree. I am going to visit the community in the next two weeks. I’ve done a video of a project we have done in Diyatalawa in the Free State.
There is one in the Eastern Cape where we have built a village for farmworkers who were evicted. That’s 100% solar and water drawn from underground. That’s what we will do in Limpopo. I’m going to take that experience which I have. That’s what I did in Diatalawa and the Eastern Cape when I was Minister of Rural Development and Land Reform. I am going to take that technology to those villages so that those 154 boreholes will use them to draw water from the ground and reticulate. [Applause.] And we will do that together so that we don’t constrain ourselves. I hope that I won’t be in trouble in both Houses of Parliament because I will work with the district
municipality and use the resources that we have to take water from underground through the solar system and distribute it to those villages. That’s what we are going to do. That’s the decision I took. [Applause.]
Fortunately, the mayor of Sekhukhune was present in that meeting. The mayor of Sekhukhne also agreed that let’s try it. What is happening in Sekhukhune as well is that water is sitting there.
People see that water doesn’t reach them. They are disrupting the pipe that runs through the first village. They say it runs past us yet we need water. So, we want to use that technology which we have tried. We want to use it in those villages because it is working.
Limpopo has enough sun.
Regarding the question of empowerment I hope hon members will assist us as well. We have implemented the empowerment plan in Clanwilliam. Remember, in the Budget Policy Speech we said that we are going to use the internal unit. It’s going to be 51% state-control, 30% set aside and 19% direct private sector investment. We are starting it. We are already trying to implement it here and we are testing it. We have appointed the Trans-Caledon Tunnel Authority, TCTA, to be it’s project manager. They are professional services providers. We will only advertise those capacities and skills that we don’t have. We
are already testing it at Clanwilliam. Hon members, I hope one day when you get there you won’t forget to check and see how it works because we need your help as well. We want to make sure that our people benefit from that, and not only in terms of money, but also in terms of skills so that beyond the project they will be able to [Interjections.]
In this model the 19% is important. What we are trying to do is that we want to bring investment onboard as the President is on an investment drive. The 19% is set aside for direct investment. But the direct investment can be combined with the 30% set aside to create the 49% where the 30% set aside - in terms of the Preferential Procurement Policy Framework Act, PPPFA - the designated groups could come into partnership with the direct investor from the private sector and together they own 49%. That’s the kind of things that we want to see happening.
The unfortunate thing in Cape Town is that it looks like contractors are generally higher in terms of capacity than those in small municipalities in Cederberg. They might end up dominating the 30% set aside. We want to avoid that because we want the local communities to benefit in that. But at the same time it’s not a welfare thing. I have asked a team from the department to help our
people get the Construction Education and Training Authority, Ceta, so that they can take advantage of the 30% set aside.
Hon Chair, we are busy now. Let’s take another topical question: the Sedibeng Regional Sewer Scheme in Emfuleni. We are busy there. We met with the community and that’s why people went back to work.
There are 12 wards there and we are creating a community co- operative with the cleaning and security capabilities so that people can be rather than what is happening. We don’t want a few groups of people come and the community starts fighting. That’s what is happening there. That’s why people blocked the entrance to the plant at Sebokeng. Sebokeng services between seven and 12 million people in the Vaal River System area. And it contributes between 46% and 64% of the economy. That’s why I have requested the President in writing to declare that and other waste water treatment plants national key points because sometimes they are deliberately disrupted. Thus vandalism happens. I have requested the President to declare them as national key points.
When the Minister of Finance, Minister Mboweni, was speaking on this question of also possibly involving the military in terms of finalising the bulk infrastructure with regard to Giyani, I was very, very excited about that because it is very much in line with
the proposal I made to the President. I said please declare them national key points so that they can be protected. There are 44 water pumps at the Sedibeng regional scheme. They are disrupted because these people want copper cables. That is exactly what is happening if you get to all of them. I have been there and I am not telling stories. I am talking about something which I know. I have been there.
Ms N P KONI: I have pictures.
The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: It’s done by people. Whether the hon member have pictures or not, but I am telling the truth. We have already built one or two of them and it is cheap. It is costing us R3,1 million, and it’s cheap. We started working together with the municipality, we work together with the province and we work together with Cogta. So, we are working together. The grant that we have received for the Emfuleni Municipality is the one that we have agreed to use. We are working as a team there. On 16th we are going to Hammanskraal with the premier. We are working as a team.
What I’m saying in terms of disruptions is that if we don’t declare these areas as national key points and get the military to take charge, whatever we do now is temporary. In no time again when people are disgruntled like the way they were disgruntled, they will
block. In Sebokeng they blocked for two hours. I came out and set with them, we discussed and we agreed as to what is to happen.
People listen. This is what is happening. It’s on the ground and I am on the ground.
This coming Friday I am going to Mpumalanga. I was supposed to be there tomorrow, but we have agreed. If you look at that note which the member was giving me at the door it was to confirm that, no, it can’t be because the premier will be busy. I will be there on Friday at 13:00 and exactly we are going to discuss about Bushbuckridge and the other problems that relate to the sewer spillages in Mpumalanga.
I go to people who are on the ground. I can’t sit in Pretoria and know everything unless we work together. [Applause.] I can tell you about all the provinces even in this province. When I talk about Clanwilliams I am talking about the government as a whole including this province which is under the DA. I am not afraid of going there and say, premier, let’s go. We are one government and the national government is in charge. We are working together to improve the lives of people.
Hon Duba, let me emphasise what you said earlier on, and I agree - poor project management. All of you are right. Of course there is no
doubt about corruption. I’m talking about the issues that all of you have agreed on. Even if you may not have corruption but it is incentivised by poor project management and poor planning. [Interjections.] Exactly; poor planning! Those are the things that we are dealing with.
We have an engineering unit in the department employing 2 936 people and are paid every month. Actually, they are supposed to be in the fields as they do have capabilities. That’s all what we wanted to do, and I have done it. [Applause.] They are up working. They are going to even raise the Tzaneen wall. Part of why I went to Limpopo I wanted them to raise the Tzaneen Dam wall. It is going to be the internal unit. They call it construction north because the one doing this side is called construction south. I am going to be in all the provinces because in each province of the country there is a construction unit that is responsible for building dams.
Towards conclusion, I must thank hon Khawula who was speaking earlier for raising this matter here. If you take Jozini Dam, the uMgeni Water is already working on it. It’s going to be a big project. I went down there and after looking I told them that just stick to the good story; this is a good story; focus on that. When I get down there I want to get to the site and see so that when I come
here I speak about something which I would have seen personally. I am very pleased. Thank you very much for that, hon member.
The hon member of the EFF is quite correct. Water is a constitutional right in South Africa therefore, if we do not provide clean water as all hon members have been saying...I am trying to avoid quoting only hon members from the ANC who spoke here because they will think that only hon members of the ANC are given praises. I acknowledge hon members of the EFF this time. It is a constitutional right. Water is indeed a constitutional right. If we do not provide it we will actually not be living up to the demands of our Constitution as South Africans. We will make sure that we do all the things that I have said including what we said in Giyani.
Reliable and sustainable access to water is the same. That’s what the hon member from the ANC was saying.
It has been in the story that 80% of our budget goes to infrastructure, that’s Programme 3. Regarding consequence management, three officials from our department have resigned in one branch, that is, financial management. The former acting director- general, DG, who was the chief financial officer, CFO, and the other one who was acting as the CFO, have all resigned. They have resigned because of the consequence management. It’s is very important. We
did listen to what hon members were saying. Some of the things we did not like but we had to do it to follow what hon members were saying both in this House and the National Assembly. The internal audit and the audit committee of the department are excellent. I asked them: where are your reports? I wanted accountability, and they showed me the reports. They said here are the reports, but they were ignored. This is exactly what the Treasury has said. In this debate the Treasury was mentioned. The Treasury said that it is for the first time that we sit like this with this department to tell us the truth. I said to them that the Treasury is our support system so tell them the truth. Together with the Treasury we have put together a technical team. We asked them where the challenges were. We give the internal audit and the audit committee reports that come out from the technical team. These two sit together. We give them reports before we go out and look for a big forensic investigation. The information comes out within the department as the capability is there. Once the reports come out, they jump. Three of them have already gone. Now we are facing disciplinary hearings. We are taking actions but we are not making noise.
The point I am making is that there is accountability, consequence management and effectiveness in terms of getting clean water to the people. To all of you hon member, thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr A J D NDOU (LIMPOPO): Hon Chair.
HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr. A J Nyambi): Sorry hon Ndou, yes [Laughter.]
Mr A J D NDOU (LIMPOPO): Hon Minister, hon members of the NCOP, distinguished guests. It is going to be difficult to speak after the Minister has spoken, whether the speech will be relevant or not and to say the things that are practically happening in our province in particular. Hon Minister, thank you for the meeting that we had which managed to work out on the programmes that you have just spoken about. We hope that as we move forward, these matters should be able to be able to be dealt with.
We are form a province which is predominantly rural and most municipalities are not able to achieve reasonable income to provide some key services like bulk water supply infrastructure. The expectation of our people and rights group is that, Project Management should entail communicating with our communities and affected provinces and municipalities.
When we begin with our work and process of upgrading water and waste, to water treatment that are dysfunctional and are in
disrepair, we have to be proactive with both the political and administrative will, in implementing our set goals and plans that are budgeted for and ensure that our monitoring tools are in place and well-oiled for functional excellence.
All this is pattern for the sake of performing and satisfying our Constitutional obligations. The timelines in this regard are important and working together with our people on the ground, we will not be finding ourselves wanting or even being bulldozed by service providers.
We cannot be seen playing the cat and the mouse games against the people who are thirsty for water, a basic need and a Constitutional obligation. They do not want much, they just want basic water to drink, shower and be clean and be part and parcel of the global lifestyle. It cannot be correct that our people have to be dry because of our inability to make people account and monitor the work we are doing for our people.
It is indeed a shame that the public purse keeps being utilised but services are not tangible enough and no action is being taken by government to ensure this Constitutional obligation, of ensuring that our people are able to have sufficient water and sanitation. It
gets blurred and no tracing of retrieved wasted use or monies back into the state coffers.
Whilst we acknowledge that the right to water is a shared competency by the spheres of government and nothing indeed that SA is one of the most progressive legislative and policy framework, in the interest and for basic services in the world including the constitutional right of access to sufficient water and sanitation.
The free basic water policy and free basic sanitation policy which commit the country to:
Free basic services to indigent households, providing a minimum of 6 kilolitres of water per household per month within 200 metre radius of the households and at least ventilated improved sanitation facility.
Part of the central challenges as raised in the diagnostic report of the National Planning Commission as released on 21 June has been, too few people work, infrastructure is poorly located, under maintained and insufficient to foster high growth and corruption is wide spread.
We are writing a new story for SA, if we have an in culpable state that cannot optimally perform its duty and ensure that there is functional excellence in our presence. That is the story that we should not be writing, not I this lifetime. We dare not fail a future that needs protection of today.
We have to remind ourselves again hon members that a capable state has to ensure that we develop and upgrade capabilities to enable sustainable and inclusive development which requires a new approach and mindset. For us, we have to do justice to the people by creating jobs and livelihoods, expanding infrastructure and transforming society, uniting the nation, fighting corruption and enhancing accountability amongst others.
We have to again work on human dignity restoration with our deeds more being louder in the game of thrones there are issues that are in our resolve to ensure that we get motivated to make people accountable and we monitor that quality of work is being done especially with the bulk water infrastructure in the Province of Limpopo. We need an infrastructure that supports human settlements, which is housing, water, sanitation, roads, parks so on.
We need political will which is an essential tool for the realisation of the success in the fight against corruption and accountability. We should remember that corruption is not a one-way in the public sector but also private sector is part of the cancer we should be eradicating for our healthy lifestyle. We must ensure that we are able to have our contact management in check and be able to deliver on the services our people expect. We should not have a space for this cancer to take over and violate the rights of our people in getting quality services they deserve.
We need to sharpen our resolve that those who are playing with the hearts and minds of the poor, thus misusing the public purse, have to face the legal arsenal in the midst, hence we call on the government to be proactive and take action against corruption especially in the matter of bulk water infrastructure and bring the trust of our people by retrieving some of those wasted resources.
It is the right thing to do for the people of Giyani, Mopani, Sekhukhune and the broader Limpopo Province. We need to build a corruption free society, a high adherence to ethics throughout society and government that is accountable to its people. The time to right the wrongs of the past starts with us, today, to ensure that our people have access to basic services, with the state being
able to communicate with the people about the plans and its implementation. The state that monitors it plans, implementation and holds people accountable.
Sesotho:
Le rena le batho.
English:
We write our history with our deeds today. I thank you. [Applause]
Mr F ESSACK: Hon House Chairperson, it’s great to be back at the podium and I have listened to some amazing stuff here today. But nevertheless, fellow South Africans out there and of course hon members, Benjamin Franklin, you will be interested in this one, one of the Founding Fathers of the United States of America once said: “When the well's dry, we know the worth of water.”
The words of the American inventor could not be truer for South Africans across our nation. 2017 and 2018, hon Minister, have been rather challenging years for the people of this beautiful country. Not just because the former was the worst year of the Zuma administration and that the latter saw the country reeling from the
damage of the ANC state capture cabal inflicted on our institutions of democracy which remain disgraceful.
These two crucial years have also been severe cases of drought in large farming communities across the Western Cape, Eastern Cape and of course Limpopo, which we have heard so much about it today.
Even in the very metro where this legislative body sits, the residents faced one of the worst realities of water shortages for a country battling in economic recession. You, hon Minister of the Department of Water and Sanitation have a legal mandate to assist municipalities facing severe droughts and water shortages. Of course, we understand that.
However, due to the legacy of your predecessor, now you can digest this for future reference, the current Communications and Gupta Minister, Nomvula Mokonyane, the Department of Water and Sanitation has been left almost rudderless and ineffective, leaving South Africans with little hope that the national government can do anything to curb the possible disaster of many ‘day zeros’ across our nation.
Earlier this year, the Auditor-General found a value of some
R6,4 billion of irregular expenditure by the Department of Water and Sanitation under the leadership of Minister Mokonyane. In addition, around the same time, hon Minister, if you are not sure of this, an overdraft of some R2 billion was owed to the South African Reserve Bank, while an astounding amount of R848 million was owed to water boards and municipalities. This is absolutely disgraceful.
But nevertheless, this is not where the horrendous mismanagement ends. Listen careful hon Minister and fellow colleagues, the residents of Sol Plaatje Local Municipality, hon De Beer and hon Oliphant, know well of the Department of Water and Sanitation’s skilled execution at failing in service delivery. [Interjections.]
Afrikaans:
Luister, dame, asseblief!
English:
The old infrastructure and lack of maintenance of the concerned municipality have left residents of Galeshewe and Roodepan with raw sewerage overflowing in the streets. [Interjections.]
Afrikaans:
Jy weet dit; ek weet dit!
IsiXhosa:
Siyayazi Sisi!
English:
This, while the then Mayor Managaliso Matika was refusing to vacate his office. It seems the typical practice within the ANC to allow their internal party factionalism to play out while service delivery is grossly compromised. Where is the hon Minister? It remains disgraceful, hon Minister.
Nevertheless, lest we not forget the several municipalities that deposited bulk water infrastructure grants into the VBS Bank scam, hon Oliphant.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Sorry, hon Essack. Let me take, hon Motlashuping.
Mr F ESSACK: Yes, sir. Oh, Motlashuping is in the House.
Mr T C MOTLASHUPING: Hon House Chair, I wonder if the hon member who is so brave will be able to take my question.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Essack, are you ready to take a question?
Mr F ESSACK: Hon House Chairperson, I will meet the brave member at Barneys after the debate where he normally resides. I will educate him within the remaining one minute and 52 seconds. [Laughter] [Applause.] Take a chill pill, hon Motlashuping.
Alright, lest we not forget the several municipalities that deposited bulk water infrastructure grants into the VBS scam, hon De Beer, that saw the savings of ordinary hardworking South Africans disappear overnight. You and I have discussed this many times. In the West Rand Municipality alone ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr. A J Nyambi): Hon Essack? Hon Essack? Sorry, hon Essack.
Mr F ESSACK: Oh, hon Oliphant is in the House.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Let me start with, hon Oliphant.
Ms G G OLIPHANT: Hon House Chair, I really want to ask the member a question, please.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Essack, are you ready to take a question?
Mr F ESSACK: I really want to get to my debate and then I will handle hon Oliphant. I will get to you just now. Okay, House Chairperson, regarding ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr. A J Nyambi): Sorry, hon Essack. Let me take, hon Mokwele.
Ms T J MOKWELE: I want to check whether when they were discussing amongst themselves, did hon De Beer agreed on what you were discussing with regard to those changes of monies and depositing?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele, before you ask the question, you must ascertain whether he is ready to take the question. Hon Essack, are you ready to take the question?
Mr F ESSACK: I don’t know what the question was about. It was about me and hon De Beer. Right now, I am not debating with hon De Beer. We are debating in the House.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Okay, continue.
Mr F ESSACK: In the West Rand Municipality alone, up to six various projects have been delayed or suspended due to funds having so conveniently disappeared in the VBS heist. It remains bloody disgraceful.
A R9 billion bulk infrastructure project in Limpopo has come to a standstill after the Department of Water and Sanitation has failed to pay the main contractor for the past nine months. I am not going to get to the Eastern Cape. Hon De Beer and I know very well the disaster in that province as we all live in that province. It is a totally disaster. The project in Giyani is another disaster
The question now remains hon House Chairperson, when will the Department of Treasury step in, take decisive leadership, and discipline the Department of Water and Sanitation for their utter failure in providing the most basic human need to the people of this beautiful nation with billions busy stolen?
Hon Minister, it seems you would need help. Listen carefully, hon Minister, I have heard just last week that your department is going nowhere slowly, with no director-general, no chief financial officer and no financial manager. I beg you to disagree with me on that, hon Minister. Our President has vowed to clamp down on corruption and reckless spending. But a rogue Department of Water and Sanitation is evidently contaminating that promise.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Essack, sorry. Let me take, hon Mateme.
Mr F ESSACK: Oh, hon Mateme is in the House.
Dr H E MATEME: House Chair, is it parliamentary to point a finger at the Minister?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): It’s not. Hon Essack, it’s not parliamentary to point fingers at hon members.
Mr F ESSACK: Amandla, Minister. Hon Minister, South Africans are now literally and figuratively dehydrated by the failing ANC government. With the DA’s comprehensive response to the water crisis in the Western Cape, it is evident that we are ready to govern this
country. This is because the DA understands and believes that water is a basic human right and we will never compromise a South African’s access to this precious need for water.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Essack?
Mr F ESSACK: Yes, hon House Chairperson, I apologise. But I am enjoying the debate.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): But you are aware that your time has expired.
Mr F ESSACK: Well, House Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity. Hon Minister, digest what I have said for immediate reference. I Thank you all South Africans. [Applause.]
Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: Chairperson, in the face of all grandstanding, in the face of all political adversity, in the face all political opportunism, in the face of all peace time heroism, the ANC remains steadfast to its original ideology. [Applause.] This historical ideological orientation of the ANC emanates from as old times as old as the Bambatha Rebellion. I refer to the ANC book called the Green Book, I refer to the ANC ideological policy book called the African
Claims, I refer to the ANC document called the Freedom Charter and I refer ANC document called Ready to Govern.
The ANC asked a question all the time, in the face of all these problems, what needs to be done? Contrary to what opposition is poorly trying to advance in their interest, robust investigations into allegations of financial misconducts are underway and decisive action will be taken against those who are found to have transgressed and not complied with procedures of the Department of Water and Sanitation and the South African statute such as the Public Finance Management Act that regulates the management of finances in this country. This is done in the name of the new programme, Thuma Mina. [Interjections.]
It is plausible that the reason why opposition has misconstrued the role of National Treasury in this motion and falsely stated that official of the department are being held accountable because the opposition is out of touch with matters that are unfolding. The ANC affirms and confirms today that indeed meaningful processes are underway to clean up the department and vehemently calls for appropriate and harsh consequences to be meted out against wrong doers when it time to do so.
As the ANC we have our finger on the pulse and can illustrate that the Department of Water and Sanitation under the leadership of the previous Minister, Nomvula Mokonyane and the current incumbent, Minister Gugile Nkwinti, is being undertaken to address areas of concern with the Department of Water and Sanitation.
On September 2018, the Public Service Commission, PSC, tabled a report to the Portfolio Committee on Water and Sanitation. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Sorry, hon Mthimunye, before I recognise hon Essack. Hon Members, it is fine that you are actively heckling, but don’t drown him, let’s allow hon Essack, why are you standing?
Mr F ESSACK: Chairperson, with due respect, could you ask the member on the podium, to please be honest to fellow South Africans ... [Interjections.] ... why was hon Monkonyane fired? Tell us why was hon Mokonyane fired; instead of coming to sing a good story to tell?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Essack, you are out of order, you must first make sure whether is ready to take a question,
and you can’t stand up and ask a question. Are you ready to take a question?
Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: Chairperson, I am not going take any question from anybody, can I place that on record.
Mr J W W JULIUS: Chairperson, I stand on a point cognisance of the fact that I am not anybody. Hon Julius wants to know whether hon Mthimunye will take a question like I always do when he asks me when I am there. I have never said no to him, but I expect that from an umkhukhu revolutionary like him.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Order members! He has already said that he is not ready to take any question. Hon Mthimunye, are you ready to take a question from hon Julius?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): He is not ready to take a question. Continue hon Mthimunye.
Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: Chairperson, I have made my point regarding taking a question.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): He is not ready to take any question. Hon Mthimunye, continue.
Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: Hon House Chair, on September 2018 the Public service Commission, PSC, tabled a report to the Portfolio Committee on Water and Sanitation, investigations into employment procedures followed or not followed with the appointment of one of the deputy director-general responsible for programme 3, water infrastructure development. This Chapter 9 institution has recommended that the Minister should take action against the offenders in the department.
Mr C F B SMIT: House Chair, I would like to know whether the hon member would be courageous to take a question.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, no, no! You are out of order. Hon members, hon Mthimunye has indicated that he is not ready to take any question. Therefore, no member can stand up and ascertain – continue hon Mthimunye.
Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: Chairperson, the ANC has full confidence that the hon Minister will act as required by the Public Finance Management Act and the Public Service Act and institute corrective actions against non compliance as stipulated by those two pieces of legislation. In the very same month, President Ramaphosa authorised the Special Investigation Unit, SIU, to investigate suspected
improper conduct by public officials and entities in the public sector in the awarding of tenders or contracts by the Department of Water and Sanitation.
The Special Investigation Unit will investigate the Department of Water and Sanitation, DWS, for alleged maladministration procurement procedures and unlawful expenditure of public money.
The decision made by the President is not indicative of a government that is not taking action as suggest or display proactive and decisive leadership that wants to hold wrong doers accountable. The ANC commends the President for his leadership to investigate improper and unlawful conduct that deters the Department of Water and Sanitation from focusing and delivering on its mandate to ensure that the country’s water resources are protected, managed, used, developed, conserved and controlled by regulating and supporting the delivery of effective water supply and sanitation.
In the same vein of investigating a proper conduct within the department, President Ramaphosa will be establishing a government execution unit, to resolve challenges and hold people accountable for pollution related issues confronting the Vaal River system, as well as gross financial management, that has crippled the Giyani
Water Project. The ANC condemns the conductions and characterising this bulk infrastructure resource, as it hampers adequate and reliable access to reliable clean water for our people.
The ANC also welcomes amendments in the Criminal Matters Amendment Act 18 of 2018, which outlines harsher sentences for people who vandalise our country’s water infrastructure. Section 3 of the Act, state that persons who unlawfully and intentionally tempers or destroys essential infrastructure should be liable to a period of imprisonment not exceeding 30 years or fine not exceeding
R100 million.
Water infrastructure is essential and the ANC commends the Minister for advancing the course for having water being classified as national key point. This position has been submitted for the President’s consideration, it is a worth course to possibly institute legal action similarly to the Criminal Matters Amendment Act for officials and private companies that misuse state funds that are critical to ensure that the provision of adequate and safe water is reality for South African citizens.
Delivering bulk water infrastructure to our people is a huge and critical task that requires loyalty and commitment from all involved
implementers. Putting our people first is what should take precedence and guide our conduct as we deliver water services to them. This journey should also involve exploring and securing new delivery and financing model to provide bulk water services to our communities in the whole country. I thank you.
Mr M KHAWULA: Hon Chairperson, indeed hon Zwane, democracy is better than apartheid and togetherness is better than segregation. No one is contesting the mandate of the Department of Water and Sanitation to deliver clean water. What you are saying is that there is no value for money spent because of poor monitoring and the programmes are poorly done. I’m glad you have acknowledged the defects and you have said that there is going to be revitalisation and reconfiguration of the department. However, I do want to quote our hon Chairperson, the hon Nyambi, when he says that you do not thank a fish for swimming. The question is, why should the people of South Africa vote the ANC back to power because the mandate doesn’t change, it is in the Constitution. Whether the ANC is in power, delivery of clean water is in the Constitution. Whether the IFP is in power, delivery of clean water is in the Constitution.
What I’m saying is that it is a very foolish ruling party that will not listen to the opposition because what you are saying is that
when you listen to the opposition you are going to look into your defects and you are going to be able to excel. People will vote you back because you are excelling not because you are doing that you are supposed to be doing. That is what you are saying. Hon Mpambo- Sibhukwana, I agree with you. We cannot let government money go to waste.
Ms L L ZWANE: I’m rising on the point of order, Chairperson, whether it is parliamentary to refer to the ruling party as foolish.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, order! I’ve listened to him attentively; and he never said that the ruling party is foolish. Therefore, hon Khawula, you are protected and you are in order.
Mr M KHAWULA: Thank you, Chair. I agree with the hon Mpambo- Sibhukwana, all of us colleagues cannot let government money go to waste and we need to do follow ups on reports. I agree that we cannot allow the politicisation of government programmes because this is a disease that the whole of Parliament must really cure. Hon Duba, thank you very much, you spoke very well. I agree that substandard quality on bulk provision is a problem and we need to take steps in resolving all these. What I’ve written here is that
you are a very good ambassador for the Eastern Cape. You know, I even went to the extent of thinking that hon Chair maybe use hon Duba for workshops in this House, because he is exercising oversight exactly the way it should be irrespective of the fact that he comes from the ruling party. That is how you should be doing. He did exactly that. Thank you very much, hon Duba. That is what you should be doing.
Hon Koni, of course, referred to a very disturbing department with its problems and you said that South Africa is a water scarce country, and as a result we need officials who are conscious to this and the operations must be conscious to this. You have reminded me, hon Koni, of hon Minister the problems that we have which are coming from the apartheid settlement patterns where the sanitation projects were only meant for a few. Now, people have moved into the cities.
As a result, your department is facing a problem whereby there must be more capacitating of these sanitation projects. The example is Kokstad, it’s a problem. Another example with that I wrote about your predecessor is Ulundi where there is a housing project which cannot be opened because sanitation has no capacity. What is your department doing about it? That is a question. What are we doing, because we need to plan wisely?
Let me go to hon member of the executive council, MEC, Ndou, thank you very much for your contribution. Hon Essack and hon Mthimunye let me not go to the things you have said. However, after all the hon members have spoken and they’ve spoken so well. Hon Minister, you spoke very well. Hon MEC spoke very well. All the hon members spoke very, very well and they showed that they understand the problem at hand. However, here is the question when all of you have known so well and so clearly what needs to be done and how it needs to be done. Why is it that things have gone terribly so wrong? When all of you have known that these are the things that have to be done and nobody is new here, why have things gone terribly so wrong? Why you talk like this today?
I was listening to the Deputy Minister of the Department of Arts and Culture at the select committee meeting this morning when she was saying, and I quote her: “Ours is a very inclusive democracy where every one is accountable.” This emphasises that the concept of accountability is a buzzword in the corridors of government.
Accountability is an important element of good governance. For example, accountability for overseeing how public resources are used involves Members of Parliament, public entities, courts and tribunals, inquiry agencies and, of course, monitoring by a civil society groups and the media.
The principles, concepts and values that are important to the public sector accountability include: transparency, fairness, integrity and trust. These values are embodied within the party that I serve and I represent, the IFP. I have grown up in a political home where we were thoroughly taught the values of respect, the values of honesty and the values of integrity. I was brought up in the political home which taught us that it is an ethical thing to disagree without being disagreeable. Members of Parliament themselves are accountable to the electorate in many ways. Part of this is through their behaviour. When Members of Parliament turn the House sittings into a circus, they must know that it is part of their accountability process. When Members of Parliament turn the House sitting into a boxing match, they must know that it is part of their accountability process.
Hon Chairperson and hon Minister, the sad part with our accountability failures as a country is that of late those who subjected to the disciplinary processes because of the wrongs they have done are resigning from public service. They are allowed to escape that easily and they get away with it. Why do you allow that Minister to happen? Resigning is not enough. We must take people to task. They must not just resign and go away. Take them to task.
Those who are foreigners, or have double or dual citizenship, are allowed to leave the country scot-free. There used to be a saying that the law has a long hand, but it appears like in South Africa the arm of the law has been drastically shortened.
In conclusion, I leave you with a quote from the words of Professor Lumumba when he recently visited South Africa, and he said that the big problem of Africa is that: “Those who have ideas have no power and those who have power have no ideas.” Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, that concludes the speakers’ list. I would like to take this opportunity on behalf of the leadership of the National Council of Provinces to thank our special delegates and Minister Nkwinti for availing themselves to participate in this very important debate. Thank you very much. As we have deferred the First Order, the Secretary will read the Second Order.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS – INSPECTION IN LOCO ON NOTICE OF INTERVENTION ISSUED IN TERMS OF SECTION 139(1)(b) OF CONSTITUTION, 1996, IN MODIMOLLE-MOOKGOPONG LOCAL MUNICIPALITY
Mr J M MTHETHWA: Chair, the Modimolle-Mookgopong Local Municipality was established by the amalgamation of the Mookgopong Local Municipality and Modimolle Local Municipality on 3 August 2016.
In terms of the Back to Basics programme, the municipality is categorised as financially distressed/dysfunctional. These are municipalities that are struggling to deliver on a number of their mandates and which are financially distressed. The provincial executive council of the Limpopo provincial government resolved on
30 May 2018 to place the Modimolle-Mookgopong Local Municipality under section 139(1)(b) of the Constitution, following the challenges in the municipality. In terms of section 139(1)(b) of the Constitution, when a municipality cannot or does not fulfil an executive obligation in terms of the Constitution or legislation, the relevant provincial executive may intervene by taking any appropriate steps to ensure fulfilment of that obligation, including assuming responsibility for the relevant obligation in that municipality.
The municipality had been experiencing serious institutional, financial, and governance challenges since it was established on
3 August 2016. It has been failing to pay employees’ salaries and service providers, and it also owes Eskom more than R200 million.
The municipality was characterised by a high vacancy rate at the senior management level where only two out of seven positions were filled. A rapid assessment team that was mandated to provide a report on the state of affairs in the municipality confirmed that the state of governance in the municipality was worsening and that the municipality would collapse if no immediate action was taken. As a result, the provincial Treasury undertook a forensic investigation of all municipal activities to determine the extent of the challenges and the remedial action necessary to be undertaken.
Further, an application was made to the High Court on behalf of the municipality in terms of section 152 of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act for a stay of all legal proceedings, including execution of legal proceedings against the municipality.
During the oversight visit, it was observed that all political parties, as well as internal and external stakeholders of the municipality, were unanimous in supporting the intervention in the municipality. There is ongoing concern with regard to the financial statements that indicated the municipality incurred a deficit of R29 million during the 2015-16 financial year and that the municipality’s current liabilities exceeded its current assets by R75,2 million. Technically, the municipality is bankrupt, as its
liabilities far exceed its assets. Overall, there is poor leadership in the municipality, poor internal control on the financial matters, and an abuse of leave encashment. If the current financial situation does not improve, the municipality will not sustain the payment of the salaries and be in a position to provide basic services.
Having conducted the oversight visit to the Modimolle-Mookgopong Local Municipality and interacted with internal and external stakeholders, it is recommended that the NCOP approve the intervention in the Modimolle-Mookgopong Local Municipality in terms of section 139(1)(b) of the Constitution. The MEC for Co-operative Governance, Human Settlements, and Traditional Affairs and the provincial Treasury should fast-track the process of instituting a forensic investigation on the abuse of leave encashment and table a report to the NCOP in this regard. The MEC for Co-operative Governance, Human Settlements, and Traditional Affairs should fast- track the process of appointing an administrator and provide clear terms of reference in order to ensure the successful implementation of the municipal finance recovery plan.
The Select Committee on Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, in co-operation with the relevant portfolio committee in the Limpopo provincial legislature, should in future conduct a follow-up oversight visit to the municipality in order to evaluate
progress made in respect of the intervention in the municipality. I present this report.
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND RECREATION ON JOINT OVERSIGHT VISIT WITH THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON SOCIAL SERVICES TO THE MPUMALANGA PROVINCE DATED 18 OCTOBER 2017.
Ms L L ZWANE: Chairperson, allow me to just give an executive summary of the visit of the Select Committee on Education and Recreation to Mpumalanga during the period 27-31 March 2017. We visited sites for basic education namely, Kamhlushwa Primary School. We also visited the University of Mpumalanga which is one the new universities. In so far as arts and culture is concerned, we visited
the Makhonjwa Mountains as well as the Samora Machel Monument. In all the sites that we had visited, starting with the University of Mpumalanga, it is a fairly new university with very few streams that were offered by the university. The challenges that were picked up are that they had challenges of accommodation as well as challenges of the declining performance of students; they declined from 94% in 2014 to 67% in 2015. The select committee advised accordingly that the university must caution against that and must ensure that they reboost their performance levels and also introduce other streams so that they can be able to attract students that are actually interested in going and studying there other than students from Mpumalanga themselves. The next site that we visited was the Mbombela Stadium which is a state-of-the-art sports facility and part of the 2010 legacy projects. It is a beautiful facility and international matches have been played in that stadium like South Africa vs Thailand, South Africa vs Niger, the Springboks vs Scotland, South Africa vs Wales.
It is able to attract international games. Nonetheless, in the absence of those games, it becomes difficult to maintain the stadium. It is only surviving through the Supersport Football Club which uses the facility as its home ground. The recommendations of the committee was that the municipality open up the stadium and be
able to invite and market the facility for use by all the sectors of the population including the music industry also and all the other sectors that can benefit from the facility. With regard to the Makhonjwa Mountains, usually referred to as the ‘Genesis of Life’, which is a very important tourist attraction and valuable also for the research in History, Science and Geology. The challenges that we found with this very important historical site is that there was no protection at all. There was a lot of stealing of precious stones that are in that mountain and that the research work that is conducted is not freely available to everybody that needs to make use of that research. So we recommended that it needs to be further marketed because it would appear that not many people are actually aware of the value of the Makhonjwa Mountains in so far as the history of this place and its importance as far as this place is concerned. Then we further visited Kwamhlushwa Primary School’s state-of-the-art modern institution. There were no major problems in that institution. It was a school that was very well-run but it does have an internet connectivity problem although there are classrooms and structures where there is no internet connectivity.
There is still a shortage of classrooms and another problem was that there are undocumented foreign national students that are in the institution and that then becomes a little bit of a challenge to
actually assist them when they reach the Grade 12 level for them to be able to have South African IDs in order for them to be able to register for the examinations. The library did not have the books and we recommended that the Department of Basic Education looks into that as well. Also, the issue of budget maintenance, because the principal said, that they were not given a budget to maintain the institution.
We then moved on to the Samora Machel Monument. The Samora Machel Monument is a very important historical site. It was actually a project that was initiated by the national Department of Arts and Culture. The site enjoys an average of between 800 to 1 000 visitations per month but we felt that it was not marketed vigorously given the historical and political importance of that site where President Samora Machel died together with 35 other people that were in that plane that crashed just before they reached their country. There are 35 steel tubes and when there is wind they make a wailing noise to mimic those 35 people who departed as a result of the crash. It was a really concerning and heart-rending kind of experience. The challenge there were that the area is pretty small and was developed to a phase 1 level only. There isn’t enough space to attract more tourists and to also make the work of the tour guides much more effective.
So we recommended, as a committee, that they maybe need to look at ways and means of marketing this site and also the departments concerned should conclude the investigation on what actually happened that killed President Samora Machel because, up to this day, no evidence has been given in terms of what the cause of the plane crash was. So, we are all as Africans want to find closure on this issue so that we put this whole issue to bed and begin to commemorate knowing exactly what had happened to the President of Mozambique. That is my report and I would then submit to the NCOP to adopt this report. Thank you.
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
[TAKE IN FROM MINUTES]
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS OVERSIGHT VISIT TO THE OLIVER REGINALD TAMBO DISTRICT MUNICIPALITY
(EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE) DURING THE PERIOD 30 JULY TO 03 AUGUST 2018, TO ASSESS THE MUNICIPAL INFRASTRUCTURE GRANT EXPENDITURE AND PROJECTS UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Mr C J DE BEER: Hon Chairperson, hon members, the Select Committee on Appropriations reports as follows: Subsequent to a petition dated
3 May 2017 received from the Mayor of O R Tambo District Municipality regarding the decision of National Treasury to reduce the Municipal Infrastructure Grant, MIG, allocation of the municipality by R90 million in the 2016-17 financial year, the select committee conducted a hearing on the matter on 6 June 2017. The reasons for this reduction were reportedly improper reporting and nonregistration of projects by the municipality and the slow take-up of projects. The reduction was done in compliance with the Division of Revenue Act 3 of 2016.
The committee invited the municipality, Eastern Cape Provincial Treasury, National Treasury, the Eastern Cape Department of Co- operative Governance and Traditional Affairs and the national Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, as well as the Auditor-General. We then had done an oversight visit from 30 July 2018 to 3 August 2018.
The objective of the oversight visit was to assess the MIG expenditure and projects under construction and implementation by the municipality. The oversight visit was divided into one day of receiving reports on financial and nonfinancial performance in a boardroom setting and three days of site visits to conduct inspections in loco of MIG projects.
The following stakeholders were invited to make presentations, including the municipality, National Treasury, Provincial Treasury, the national Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, the provincial Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, and the Auditor-General. The presentations are captured in detail in the committee report.
I will now discuss the recommendations. The committee recommends that both the national Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs and the Eastern Cape Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs should support the municipality in developing action plans to address the audit findings within the municipality. The two departments should provide a report to the committee within three months after the adoption of this report by the House.
The district municipality must improve on its project planning and execution and IDP processes to avoid project delays due to poor planning and community disputes about the projects.
The municipality should provide a clear action plan on how the municipality will implement the consequence management, as recommended by the Auditor-General.
The district municipality should provide the committee with an action plan on how the Municipal Public Accounts Committee, MPAC, and portfolio committees of the municipality will strengthen its oversight role, especially on project site monitoring because that was lacking.
The district municipality should strengthen its communication strategies to ensure that decisions of the council structures are properly communicated to all the stakeholders concerned.
While the committee has noted the improved grant spending, there is, however, a need for the municipality to improve on its project design, implementation and monitoring to ensure value for the money spent. The national Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs and the provincial Department of Co-operative
Governance and Traditional Affairs should strengthen their support to the municipality in this regard.
The district municipality should speed up the investigation of the questionable appointment of the Amatola water board without following correct procurement processes.
Both the National Treasury and the Auditor-General have constitutional mandates and the findings of these institutions should be respected and implemented by all organs of state. The Eastern Cape Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs should employ measures that will ensure that the senior management of the municipalities in the province respect and comply with the findings of both National Treasury and the Auditor-General.
Based on what was observed during the oversight visit - lack of value for money, significant escalation costs linked to variation orders and projects running years beyond the projected completion time — National Treasury and the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs should investigate whether the Municipal Infrastructure Grant funding is being spent for the intended purpose in this municipality.
If time allows, before Parliament rises for the 2019 elections, we will call back the municipality to come and account. I submit this report for consideration. Thank you.
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS - EASTERN CAPE PROVINCE’S EARLY CHILDHOOD DEVELOPMENT GRANT EXPENDITURE FOR 2017/18 AND FIRST QUARTER OF 2018/19 FINANCIAL YEAR
Mr C J DE BEER: Hon House Chairperson, on 16 May 2018, the committee conducted a hearing on the Early Childhood Development, ECD, Grant expenditure as at the fourth quarter of the 2017-18 financial year with the national Department of Social Development, the National Treasury and three provincial departments, selected on the basis of their performance in the first three quarters of the financial year.
The committee report on this hearing was adopted on 22 August 2018. The Eastern Cape MEC for Social Development could not attend this meeting, and the committee therefore resolved that another meeting would be scheduled with the Eastern Cape MEC for Social Development and the leadership of that department, the National Treasury and the national Department of Social Development to come and report on their grant expenditure.
Submissions were made by National Treasury and the national and provincial Department of Social Development and those reports are indeed captured in the committee report. The National Treasury actually confirmed that the Eastern Cape, at 48,6%, had been the lowest spending province on the ECD Grant in the 2017-18 financial year.
With regard to the 2018-19 financial year, Treasury reported that by the end of the first quarter, the Eastern Cape had spent 1,2% or R247 000 of the R18,2 million that was transferred to it. This spending had been on administration, with no expenditure on the subsidy and maintenance components.
Hon House Chair, I turn to the observations that we encountered throughout that meeting. Having considered the submissions by the two national departments and the Eastern Cape Department of Social Development, the committee report as follows: The provincial department would surrender back to the National Revenue Fund, NRF, R22,6 million of ECD Grant funds, this after a pre-audit roll-over of R6,3 million had been approved for the 2017-18 financial year; that the provincial department has revised the subsidy allocation days from 203 to 237 days, with the intention of complying with the national norm of 264 days by the 2019-20 financial year.
After having been criticised by the committee for underexpenditure on the ECD Grant, the provincial department, together with the national Department of Social Development have developed an intervention strategy to address all challenges linked to the implementation of the grant within the Eastern Cape.
The intervention strategy appears to be assisting the Eastern Cape head of department, HOD, to address the shortcomings that existed in the implementation of the grant. The Alfred Nzo Business Forum’s demand to receive first preference for all ECD Grant maintenance projects within the Alfred Nzo District, had led to the stoppage of
all projects in that district. The MEC was attending to the matter and hoped that a solution would be reached quickly.
Even though expenditure was not where it should be, the committee viewed the intervention strategy positively, and believed it would assist the provincial department to address the backlogs on the maintenance component and further pay the ECD centres which were entitled to a subsidy, provided that there was capacity within the province to implement the plan; there were clear timeframes for each step in the plan; and regular oversight was done over the implementation of the intervention.
The vacant technical positions, which were meant to be filled in the 2017-18 financial year, have since been filled. This would help the provincial department to fast-track the appointment of contractors; ensure that prices were not inflated by contractors; monitor project implementation quality; and ensure that projects were implemented within the agreed timeframes.
The Eastern Cape Department of Social Development, the Eastern Cape Provincial Treasury and the Eastern Cape Department of Roads and Public Works have resolved to establish a database of pre-qualified contractors in each district to enable a more efficient procurement process.
The committee resolved that it would invite the Eastern Cape Department of Social Development for a follow-up meeting during the fourth term or the first term of 2019, to assess progress made on the implementation of the revised operational strategy on the ECD Grant implementation and the expenditure thereof. I move that the House consider this report but I emphasise the principle to follow up on engagements that we have with provincial departments to monitor progress made. Thank you, House Chair.
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
HEARING OF LUNGA KONA PETITION HELD AT GARDEN COURT HOTEL, MTHATHA, EASTERN CAPE ON 10 SEPTEMBER 2015 AND AT PARLIAMENT ON 3 MAY 2017,
AS ADOPTED ON 13 JUNE 2018
(Consideration of Report of Select Committee on Petitions and Executive Undertakings)
Mr D L XIMBI: Thank you Chairperson. The Select Committee on Petitions and Executive Undertakings, having considered the Lunga Kona Petition dated 20 November 2014 and referred to the committee on 25 November 2014, reports as follows.
The Lunga Kona Petition is submitted to the Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces by Mr Lunga Kona, and complains about the state of specific roads in the Eastern Cape. The petitioner further seeks the intervention of the NCOP in ensuring that additional roads and bridges are constructed or upgraded in the province.
The committee held two hearings on the petition. The first hearing on the petition was held on 10 September 2015 and the second hearing was held on 30 May 2017. Subsequent to the hearings on the petition, the committee makes the following observations and key findings on the basis of the oral and written submissions it received in relation to the subject matter of the petition.
Invitation to appear before the committee during the first hearing on the petition and to make submissions were extended to the SA National Roads Agency, Sanral, the provincial Department of Roads and Public Works, the Executive Mayor of O R Tambo District Municipality and the Eastern Cape Department of Provincial Treasury.
However, Sanral was the only key stakeholder to have honoured this invitation to appear before the committee during the first hearing on the petition. The O R Tambo District Municipality, provincial Department of Roads and Public Works and the Provincial Treasury were again extended an invitation to appear before the committee and to make submissions during the second hearing on the petition, yet failed to honour this invitation to appear before the committee. The department and Provincial Treasury did however later make written submissions to the committee in response to the petition.
None of the roads identified or singled out in the petition submitted by Mr Kona to the NCOP fall under the control or management of Sanral and the same applies to the gravel roads and bridges identified in the petition. All of the roads and bridges identified or singled out in the petition fall under the control or management of either the district municipality or the department.
Mr Kona did not bring the issues raised in the petition to the attention of the Eastern Cape provincial government. Mr Kona sent a letter to Sanral two or three years ago relating to the construction of the interchange. However, the letter did not speak to the other issues raised in the petition.
Sanral is willing to take over some of the identified roads provided that the necessary processes in the handing over of the roads are followed. The premier of the province ... formally request the Minister of Transport to incorporate the roads into Sanral’s network of roads.
In 2016, a total of 313,6 kilometers of road were transferred to Sanral by the province. These roads include the R390 from Cradock to Hofmeyer; the R392 from Queenstown to the R410 intersection; the R396 from Tsolo to Maclear; and the R58 from Quiba to the R56 east of Elliot.
The Eastern Cape provincial government has approximately
4 000 kilometers of roads under it and only 300 kilometers of these roads have been handed over by the province to Sanral.
Sanral has a healthy relationship with the Eastern Cape government and this relationship will be beneficial to resolving some of the issues raised in the petition. It is against these observations and key findings that the committee makes the following recommendations:
Firstly, the Eastern Cape Department of Provincial Treasury is to expedite the implementation of phase 2 of the rural roads programme that covers 13 of the roads identified in the petition;
Secondly, the Provincial Treasury is to appear before the committee and provide a progress report on the implementation of phase 2 of the rural roads programme six months from the tabling of this report in the House;
Thirdly, the provincial Department of Roads and Public Works and Provincial Treasury are to work together to ensure that Sanral is handed additional roads, particularly those identified in the petition, for their inclusion in Sanral’s network of roads; and
Finally, the provincial Department of Roads and Public Works, Provincial Treasury and Sanral are to appear before the committee and provide progress reports on the handing over of roads to Sanral six months from the tabling of this report in the House.
In conclusion, the Select Committee on Petitions and Executive Undertakings recommends that the House adopt the Lunga Kona Petition report.
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON PETITIONS AND EXECUTIVE UNDERTAKINGS HEARING OF THE TRANSKEI ROAD TRANSPORT CORPORATION PETITION HELD ON 18 APRIL 2018, AT PARLIAMENT, AS ADOPTED ON 13 JUNE 2018
Mr D L XIMBI: Chairperson, the Select Committee on Petitions and Executive Undertakings having considered the Transkei Road Transport Corporation Petition, referred to the committee, on 1 December 2014,
reports as follows: The committee first tabled a report, in the House, on the petition on 31 May 2017. It is, however, later came to the committee’s attention that despite it tabling a report on the petition in the House very little or nothing was done in implementing the recommendations it had put forward in its initial report on the petition. The committee consequently took a decision to reconsider the petition and hold a second hearing on the petition aimed at requesting the stakeholders, implicated in the petition, to advise it on how best to resolve the petition.
The committee accordingly, held a second hearing on the petition on
18 April 2018. Subsequent to the hearings on the petition, the committee makes the following observations and key findings on the basis of the oral and written submissions it received in relation to the subject matter of the petition. The Special Investigative Unit, SIU, investigation into a Transkei Road Transport Corporation, TRTC, was mandated by Presidential Proclamation made on 31 January 2003 and was limited in scope to the assets belonging TRTC post its liquidation.
The SIU proclamation, in question, did not mandate any investigation or enquiry into the termination of the benefits payable to the former employees of the TRTC. During the period following the
appointment of liquidators and auctioneers to assist with the winding up of the affairs of TRTC, a period of chaos, intimidation, harassment and lawlessness followed. The situation became so volatile that the liquidators were forced to abandon their attempt to wind up TRTC. The assets of TRTC were vandalised and some of the assets were even misappropriated. Post the liquidation of TRTC, an entity was formed by the former employees of TRTC, known as Umanyano Transport and according to the SIU, this entity played a prominent role in misappropriating the property belonging to the former TRTC.
Following the investigation by the SIU, the SIU was able to restore control over some fixed property, including some of the depots used by the former TRTC, which were sold by an auctioneer for R2 669 214 a recovery for the fiscal. The SIU also recovered rental payable to the state in the amount of R450 000 and nine houses belonging to TRTC were also recovered and sold for R600 000. A significant number of TRTC’s depots were leased from municipalities so they did not actually belong to TRTC. Depots in Idutywa, Mount Frere, Qumbu, Ntabankulu and Bizana, for instance, were not owned by the TRTC, but were leased from the municipalities and were later handed back to those municipalities.
The issues of the compensation due to former employees of TRTC and in particular the question of the contractual obligation to assist them with future employment were dealt with by the Eastern Cape High Court in the matter of Lungile Elliot Siyepu and 508 other versus Premier of the Eastern Cape, Case Number: 203/2000. The Eastern Cape High Court matter of Lungile Elliot Siyepu and 508 other versus Premier of the Eastern Cape was not linked directly to the SIU investigation and the SIU was not a party to the litigation.
The national Department of Labour conducted a background check on the 62 former TRTC employees listed in the petition in order to determine if they qualify for the Unemployment Insurance Fund, UIF, payments and established that the petitioners and the TRTC were not registered for UIF nor were they contributing towards UIF. Disputes relating to the benefits such as pensions, provident fund payments and others fall outside ... the jurisdiction ... [Interjections.]
... of the National Department of Labour.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Ximbi is protected, hon members.
Mr D L XIMBI: Ernst and Young were the actual liquidators of the TRTC and as such are in a position to provide evidence on the
liquidation of the TRTC. Chairperson, the recommendations are as follows: The Office of the Premier of the Eastern Cape is to commission a forensic investigation aimed at conclusively determining, amongst others, the number of employees TRTC had prior to its liquidation; the number of employees of the TRTC that received their benefits - the pension, unpaid leave and UIF related benefits - post its liquidation; and the value of the assets held by the TRTC prior to its liquidation. The role played by Umanyano Transport post the dissolution of TRTC and the reasons for the nonpayment of various benefits to the petitioners.
The forensic investigation to be commissioned by the Office of the Premier is to ensure that: Alexander Forbes provides evidence on the unclaimed benefits fund that it made reference to during the first hearing on the petition; Ernst and Young provides evidence on the liquidation process that TRTC underwent; and Eastern Cape Provincial Department of Transport provides evidence on the events leading up to the liquidation of the TRTC. Alexander Forbes is to assist the petitioners in claiming from the unclaimed benefit fund that it made reference to during the first hearing on the petition.
The SIU is to provide a written report to the House and Office of the Premier on what happened to the proceeds of the properties that
it was able to recover and dispose of following the liquidation. Chairperson, the Office of the Pension Funds Adjudicator is to investigate the nonpayment of pension and provident related benefits to the petitioners. Therefore, Chairperson, the Select Committee on Petitions and Executive Undertakings recommends that the House adopt the TRTC petition report. I so move, Chair. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON PETITIONS AND EXECUTIVE UNDERTAKINGS - HEARINGS OF THE FUZANE PETITION, HELD ON 6 MAY 2015, 13 MAY 2015 AND 3 JUNE 2015, AT PARLIAMENT
Mr D L XIMBI: Chairperson, thank you for the opportunity. Thank you for allowing me to table this last report. The Select Committee on
Petitions and Executive Undertakings having considered the Fuzane Petition referred to the committee on 25 November 2014, reports as follows: The Fuzane petition is submitted to the Chairperson of the NCOP by Mrs Fuzane on behalf of her late daughter, Tamara Fuzane.
In the petition, Mrs Fuzane directs complaints against two medical facilities namely; Groote Schuur hospital and Khayelistha district hospital. To be precise, Mrs Fuzane contends that Tamara was negligently discharged from Groote Schuur hospital, in or around July 2011, after undergoing an invasive brain operation. She further contends that three years later, in or around February 2014, Tamara was physically assaulted whilst admitted at Khayelistha district hospital. The committee held extensive hearings on the petition at Parliament, together with the Portfolio Committee on Health.
The first hearing on the petition was held on 6 May 2015; the second hearing was held on 3 June 2015; and the last one was on the
3 June 2016. Subsequent to the hearings on the petition, the committee makes the following observations and key findings on the basis of the oral and written submissions it received in relation to the subject matter of the petition: Groote Schuur hospital investigated the complaints into the improper and negligent discharge of Tamara from the medical facility and determined that
Tamara’s discharge from the medical facility had not been patient centred; the external investigation conducted by Khayelitsha district hospital, into the alleged assault on Tamara, was not conclusive or extensive enough as no statements were taken from the relevant patients or the relevant attending medical personnel; nothing in the oral and written submissions, made by Khayelitsha district hospital, points to the fact that Tamara was thoroughly examined pre and during her admission at the medical facility. In fact, the attending medical personnel at Khayelitsha district hospital admitted that they failed to notice the lesions and abrasions on Tamara during her admission, and as such Mrs Fuzane was the first person to notice the lesions and abrasions on Tamara’s body.
Record keeping by the attending nurses at Khayelitsha district hospital, appears to have been poor and incomplete and this is evidenced by the fact that in the course of its oral submissions, the medical facility, could not, for instance, reliably confirm how many times Tamara was turned in a day or that she was thoroughly examined before she was admitted.
The poor and incomplete record keeping at Khayelitsha district hospital referred to above, is not only contrary to the principles
of Batho Pele, aligned to the Constitution but is also regrettable given the sensitive and confidential nature of the information involved - the medical information. [Interjections.] The submission, by the head of the provincial Department of Health, ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order hon members!
Mr D L XIMBI: ... that it is regrettable is that, no one at Khayelitsha district hospital noticed the lesions and abrasions on Tamara’s body is tantamount to a prima facie admission that Tamara sustained the lesions and abrasions whilst admitted at Khayelitsha district hospital.
A request by the committee for the relevant attending nurses from Khayelitsha district hospital, to appear before the committee and make oral submissions on the petition, was not acceded to by the head of the provincial Department of Health. The memorandum prepared by the head of the provincial Department of Health in response to the petition, is not detailed enough and lacks information on amongst others, the extent of the internal investigation conducted, by Khayelitsha district hospital, to determine if Tamara had been indeed assaulted.
Dr Carter, from the national Department of Health, conducted an investigation into the complaints against Khayelitsha district hospital and came to the conclusion, together with Professor Saayman, that Tamara was likely assaulted given the nature and appearance of the lesions and abrasions on Tamara’s body.
It is against these observations and key findings that the committee makes the following recommendations: The national Department of Health is to conduct a thorough investigation into the complaints raised by Ms Fuzane in the petition, against Khayelitsha district hospital and Groote Schuur hospital. The investigation by the national Department of Health is to take into account the following: The fact that no statements were taken from the relevant medical personnel, at both Khayelitsha district hospital and Groote Schuur hospital during internal investigations into the complaints by Mrs Fuzane; the reluctance on the part of the provincial Department of Health, to allow the relevant medical personnel from Khayelitsha district hospital to make oral submissions to the committee on the issues raised in the petition; the poor and incomplete record keeping at Khayelitsha district hospital; the outcomes of the investigation conducted by Dr Carter concluding that Tamara Fuzane was likely assaulted whilst admitted at Khayelitsha district hospital; and the medical report by Professor Saayman which concluded that the injuries which Tamara Fuzane sustained, whilst
admitted at Khayelitsha District Hospital, could be attributed to an assault, with an object resembling a cane or stick.
The House is to refer the investigation, by the national Department of Health to the Select Committee on Social Services for oversight and further require the Select Committee on Social Services to request a progress report on the investigation within 90 days of the tabling of this report in the House. The National Prosecuting Authority and the Independent Police Investigative Directorate are to investigate the assault allegations raised by Mrs Fuzane as well as whether appropriate action was taken by the SA Police Services in investigating the allegations.
The House is to refer the investigations by the Independent Police Investigative Directorate investigate and the National Prosecuting Authority to the Select Committee on Security for oversight and require the Select Committee on Security and Justice to request a progress report on the investigations within 90 days of the tabling of this report. [Interjections.] Lastly, the House is to assist Mrs Fuzane to refer the complaints against both Khayelitsha district hospital and Groote Schuur hospital to the office of the Health Ombud for further investigations.
Therefore, the Select Committee on Petitions and Executive Undertakings recommends that the House adopt the Fuzane petition report. I so move Chair. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE - 2018 REVISED FISCAL FRAMEWORK
Mr C J DE BEER: Hon Chairperson and hon members, the Select Committee on Finance report as follows: On the 24 October 2018, the Minister of Finance tabled the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement in the National Assembly in terms of section 6 of the Money Bills Act. The MTBPS included the revised fiscal framework for the 2017- 18, financial year, and the proposed fiscal framework for the next three years.
As per section 12 (5), read with section 12 (7) of the Act, this is the report on the revised fiscal framework. The committee will report on the proposed fiscal framework as per the Act shortly. On the 25 October 2018, the Minister of Finance, the Director-General, DG, and the Treasury team gave a total briefing of the MTBPS in debt. Public hearings were held on the 31 October 2018, and 17 stakeholders made submissions. This is the most submissions made in nine years to the Committee on Finance.
Hon Chair, I turn to the observations and recommendations because all the submissions are covered in detail in the report, the resubmissions by the stakeholders.
The committee congratulates the Minister on his appointment and wishes him well. This report on the Revised Fiscal Framework has to be linked to the report on the Proposed Fiscal Framework for the next three years that the committee will adopt within the next 10 days. The two reports overlap in several respects. Over the years, increasingly, it is the powerful and well-resourced organisations that make oral submissions at MTBPS public hearings.
Chair, this year, the committee was very pleased to receive oral submissions from pensioners of the Msunduzi representing the
Pietermaritzburg Pensioners Forum, from Pietermaritzburg, and they came by bus. I think they were 11 of them.
While the committee is empathetic with their concerns, the MTBFS does not deal with the actual increases in grants. However, we also note that 33% of the South African population in 2017, were social grant beneficiaries and more than 22% of the South African households receive grants as the primary source of income, and this is amongst the highest percentage globally.
The committee recommends that in view of the VAT increase, constant increases in the cost of fuel and the increases in the cost of living in general. That the National Treasury considers a higher increase in grants than is usually the case by reprioritising expenditure and not exacerbating the debt to GDP ratio as increases in debt in these specific circumstances will ultimately affect the poor disproportionately the most.
The Minister tabled the 2018 MTBPS under significantly deteriorating economic circumstances, and far more eroded fiscal space since the tabling of the 2018 national budget. The committee is concerned that while the global economy is growing at 3,7%, Brics at 4,7% and Sub-
Saharan Africa at 3,1%, South Africa has now entered a technical recession after years of sluggish economic growth.
The numbers in the Revised Fiscal Framework are dire. The Economic growth for this financial year is now projected to be 0,7% compared to the projected l,7% in February 2018, when the national budget was tabled.
The projected growth rate of 1,8% in 2019 has also been reduced compared to the projections in the national budget of 20l8. Hon Chair, especially concerning too is that while in the February 2018 Fiscal Framework, the budget deficit was expected to be 3,8% and the debt to GDP ratio 55,1% the Revised Fiscal Framework projects it to be 4,0% and 55,8% respectively.
Against all expectations, it is anticipated that there will be R27,4 billion shortfall in revenue, while R20 billion of which will constitute the VAT returns, including R11 billion that is made up of returns that have been withheld.
The committee recommends that National Treasury and Sars should report on progress in improving these numbers in its quarterly briefings of the committees. These meetings will be held jointly
between the Select Committee on Finance and the Standing Committee for Finance. Apart from the economic growth the key concerns are raising revenue and managing the debt to ensure South Africa’s fiscal sovereignty is not undermined.
More than ever, the country needs economic growth. The Revised Fiscal Framework and the MTBPS as a whole have to be evaluated in terms of the extent to which they contribute to investment, growth, job creation and the reduction of inequalities.
The Revised Fiscal Framework is not promising in this regard. The committee believes that the government needs to, among other things, do far more to reduce political and policy uncertainty; address key structural challenges; revitalise and strengthen Sars; encourage job creation, investment; spend money more efficiently and effectively; act decisively against corruption, and tackle the illicit economy far more effectively.
The committee reiterates its views that government alone cannot ensure the necessary economic growth. Parliament, the private sector, the trade unions, other sections of the civil society and the public all have a role to play. It is for the government, however, to lead in this regard.
The committee welcomes the President’s Economic Stimulus and Recovery Plan and wants to see an implementation plan. We want an action plan. The committee will deal with the Plan further in our Proposed Fiscal Framework Report to be adopted within the next couple of weeks.
The committee welcomes the SA Investment Conference 2018 held from
25 to 27 October and the pledges of investment of R290 billion. It is a good story. In recent years, the National Treasury has been overestimating the GDP growth forecasts, which has in turn negatively affected the fiscal framework.
The committee recommends that the National Treasury should improve the credibility of its forecasts given the impact of the failure to achieve the set targets have on the broader economy. The National Treasury should report on measures it has taken to regularly update its forecasting model, acquire and retain the skills necessary to do economic modelling and improve the degree of certainty in the economic and fiscal targets set.
We are concerned that the fiscal risks identified by the National Treasury in the MTBPS and the Budget Reviews in the recent past have materialised, leading to worsened and continued fiscal slippage.
Given the added potential impact of the volatility of global financial markets, trade disputes and the growing global risks, the National Treasury need to propose effective measures to mitigate the likelihood of fiscal risks materialising and impacting on the broader economy.
The committee notes that R5 billion has been allocated to SAA to help it repay some of the Rl4,2 billion debt that is maturing before March 2019, as it is currently not generating sufficient cash. This comes in the wake of R 10 billion that had been allocated to SAA in 2017.
The committee believes that the terms of these have to be made clear, including how it is being linked to a successful turnaround strategy. Obviously, the state cannot continue to bail SAA out and it must improve its performance.
The majority in the committee remains of their view, unless convinced otherwise, that SAA should remain in state hands, but as explained in previous reports, it needs to be able to draw a strategic equity partner, enter into other partnerships with the private sector, review its routes, rationalise its fleet, engage
more effectively with the trade unions and staff, and fulfil other aspects of its turnaround strategy.
The committee reiterates its recommendation that members of the executive and senior department officials in the national and provincial spheres of government should buy cars that are used and assembled in South Africa.
Hon Chairperson, I submit this report for consideration by the House. Most of the members of the Select Committee on Finance agree on the Revised Fiscal Framework. The DA did not support the report. Thank you. [Applause.]
Declaration of vote:
Mr O S TERBLANCHE: Thank you, hon Chairperson, hon members and fellow South Africans. As South Africans we eagerly await reforms that will deal with our most pressing issues; real issues that deal with the scourge of unemployment, cutting wasteful expenditure and corruption. Instead, all we hear about is that this beautiful country is going nowhere economically.
Ordinary South Africans continue to pay for government failures of being unable to steer our economy to a growth path that will one day
take South Africans out of poverty and the ability to provide for their families.
Once again, there is an outward and upward push on debt stabilisation while more resources go to servicing debt, hence deviating funds from infrastructure and social investment; behind this Fiscal Framework, lies additional appropriation steward bailing out SOEs and ultimately, unlimitedly ANC corruption.
Take note there is R5 billion allocations to the SAA, once again, which continues to make losses every single year. This year Chairperson is no different and there is no end in sight. The Finance Minister Tito Mboweni just this weekend said that the situation will not change, and the government will need to get rid of the SAA. There is R2, 9 billion allocations to the SA Express, yet another loss made in the state-owned airline more than how half of its fleet is currently grounded.
There is R5,7 billion bailout for Sanral, which has a long trail of creative accounting redirecting funds from various areas towards bailing out e-tolls in Gauteng; the very same e-tolls that the ANC rolled out, maintains and marched against. Do not officially breaks
the expenditure ceiling the same as in the last year the contingency reserves have been completely depleted.
This is a clear indication that there is a lack of responsibility when it comes to the financial management of South Africa. What this means is that we do not have any reserves available for any emergencies.
The ANC through their uncertain economic policy has proven yet again that they are unable to lead our country into a prosperous growth path. Hon Chairperson, the DA does not support the Fiscal Framework. Thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
[TAKEN FROM THE MINUTES.]
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Debate concluded.
The Council adjourned at 18:01.