Hansard: NA: Unrevised Hansard
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 23 May 2017
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Minutes
TUESDAY, 23 MAY 2017
PROCEEDINGS OF MINI-PLENARY – OLD ASSEMBLY CHAMBER
Members of the mini-plenary session met in the National Assembly at 16:15.
The House Chairperson Mr C T Frolick took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
APPROPRIATION BILL
Debate on Vote 23 and 20 - Police and Independent Police Investigative Directorate
The MINISTER OF POLICE: Hon Chairperson, Deputy Minister of Police, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers present here today, members of the South African Police led by General Masemola, entities of Policing in the Republic, The Independent Police Investigative Directorate, IPID, Civilians Secretariat led by the Secretary of Police, Private Security Industry Regulatory Authority, PSIRA,
Directorate for Priority Crime Investigation, DPCI, led by General Matakata, All our important organs, Members of Parliament and the media.
I rise before you today to table the Budget Vote No. 20 and 23 for the financial year 2017/2018.
We do this inspired by the words of Oliver Tambo when he addressed the International community on the pernicious system of apartheid on
27 June 1987 at George Town University in the United State of America:
The only way to bring about peace and prosperity is to liquidate all forms of crime and criminality. Crime can never be amended or reformed but it should be fought against and be defeated.
We need to suffocate criminals and limit the space for their operation. Hon member, by suffocation it is not equal to death, it means we must make it unbearable for them; we must not make it easy, they must understand ... they must never be on holiday.
Hon Chairperson, today the late and former Police Minister Steve Tshwete speaks to us from the grave: ―We will fight criminals and criminality with an agility of a cat and ferocity of a cornered bull.‖
We are not going to go for shortcuts. No short term planning! No short term solutions! It is not going to be business as usual. We need warriors in this battle. We need men and women of honour in the police service. We salute all police who passed away in the line of duty, those that passed whilst serving their country.
We diss and abhor all criminal elements in the Police Service. We salute all law abiding citizens who take part in the fight against crime. We declare war on trio crimes (house robbery, carjacking, business robbery). We declare war on illicit financial flows and commercial crimes. We declare war on rogueness on Police Service. Police Service is not meant to take part in political factions and groupings. Our duty is to serve all South Africans.
Gender based violence should be fought with all arsenal at our disposal. All our 1144 police stations nationwide are going to ensure that no women are turned back from reporting acts of crime
against them. [Applause.] We call upon all women to come forward and report all cases of abuse against them.
Our approach to fighting crime is going to be intelligence led and bold. We cannot fight crime without intelligence. Crime Intelligence must find its purpose. The Hawks must bring crime and corruption to its knees. Those who pursue crime in both public and private sector must be brought to book. The holiday of criminals is over. This is our social contract with you South Africans. You can judge us on that!
In the past few days our country had been engulfed by a new scourge and wave of lawlessness. Criminals are running amok in this country terrorising our people. We must declare war against crime. We must declare crime as domestic terrorism. In this regard, when I went around Gauteng and the entire country I had listened with great concern to the excruciating cries of our ordinary South Africans.
Criminals are brutalising our society with impunity.
Since our time in office, we have with sadness, witnessed brutal assaults against our people by the criminal elements. Amongst others we have witnessed the following: the Nyanga hostage scene; Mandla Hlatshwayo passing away; three teenagers killed during gang
violence; two police officers shot at and injured; a young lady, Karabo Mokoena, brutally killed; Flora Moetshe reported missing.
We have observed that the South African Police Service, SAPS, has limitations. When we went through the Annual Report and the Annual Performance Plan of SAPS, we have identified key underperforming area with three financial programmes:
Programme 1, we have the following observations: the anomaly of Management Service Termination including the weak provision of Employees Health and Wellness Programme; and we have as well observed unacceptable high Civil Claims against the Police Service.
Programme 2, we have observed under reporting and the looseness of crimes against women, children, people with disabilities and the elderly.
As we move forward, we want to disarm South Africa. We must silence guns by 2063. In doing so, we have developed a tailored programme for the recovery of stolen and state owned fire arms. Parallel to this programme is the recovery of the stolen and robbed vehicles of the police, including the brutal killing of the police. This will not be successful if we lack necessary skills in detective services.
We are determined, more than ever before to look acutely in the areas of detection raid, counter intelligence and the reinforcement of informers.
We hope this will limit serious crimes against our people, especially crimes like the contact crimes, crimes against women and crimes against our children.
How do we resource this fight against crime? The budget allocations of the IPID increased from R197.9 million in the financial year 2012/13 to R255.5 million in 2017/18 at a growth rate of 29%, a significant increase due to implementation of IPID Act. Since the implementation of the IPID Act with additional responsibilities, the budget allocation has been showing an insignificant growth.
The independence of the IPID have been reconfirmed by the rulings of both the North Gauteng High Court and the Constitutional Court in their judgements on the 6th of September and the 4th of December respectively. As the Ministry, we are committed to maintaining and upholding the decisions of our courts.
In this financial year, the Firearms License Appeal Board intends to forward proposals that will better manage the spread of firearms and reduce the proliferation of the firearms.
The Private Security Industry Regulation Authority is one organ that serves as an oversight on this crucial industry. The private security industry continues to play a critical role towards the growth of the economy and the safety of all South Africans in general. The current growth in the number of the actively employed security officers from 488 666 during the past year to 498 435 as at
31 March 2017, bears testimony to the pivotal role the industry continues to play in creating entry level employment for the majority of South Africans, especially young people and women who are employed in the industry.
But, the growth of the industry also brings along with it challenges of none compliance and unfair labour practices. Exploitation of employees, none compliance with provident fund contributions by employers and unfavourable working conditions are but some of the regulatory challenges that PSIRA must continue to address. In light of these challenges, the Authority is continuously strengthening its stakeholder engagement network among others with the Department of Labour, the SAPS and the Private Security Sector Provident Fund.
Hon Chairperson, the South African Police Service constitutes the bulk of the budget of the Ministry. Policing is the cornerstone of our mandate and it is a highly sensitive matter as it is integral to maintenance of peace, security and stability.
As we look back we identified the following as key anchors of our roadmap to transform policing in South Africa:
Establishment of a single Police Service: In this regard the White Paper on Policing has been developed;
Improvement of the conditions of service of the members of the SAPS;
Establish Street Committees and Strengthen partnership with our communities, we will not win the war on our without partnership with our communities;
Transformation of the Security Departments: The work of the Transformation Task Team will be accelerated this year;
Increase the human capacity to fight and combat Rhino crime;
Implementation of the resolutions of the National Security Structures: This will be done in cooperation with other departments; and
Implementation of the process of protecting National Key Points by the National Security Agencies: The process to replace the National Key Points Act with the Critical Infrastructure Bill is currently under way and undergoing consultations at National Economic Development and Labour Council, NEDLAC.
Hon Chair and members, in order to achieve this, the SAPS has been allocated a budget of R87 Billion for the 2017/18 financial year which includes a transfer to the Civilian Secretariat for Police Service of R124.7 Million.
The Back-to-Basics Programme approach to policing is primarily benefiting the Visible Policing and Detective Services programmes, which are the Department’s core service delivery programmes. These two programmes constitute of R62 billion or 71.3%, of the total budget for this financial year, with a combined personnel count of
140 657 in 2016/17. The expected outcomes of the Back-to-Basics approach are improved departmental performance on the prevention, detection and investigation of crime.
The department has identified one police station in each province for the pilot implementation of the frontline service delivery project, which aims to improve the professional conduct of police officials. The project also aims to ensure that police stations are accessible, and interactions between the police and the public are positive.
A significant proportion of the department’s budget, approximately 76.4% over the medium term, is allocated to spending on compensation of employees.
The department is developing a plan to expand public order policing to support the implementation of the recommendations of the Marikana Commission of Inquiry. Allocations of R242 million in 2017/18 and R355.8 million in 2018/19 were approved by Cabinet in the 2016 budget for this purpose. This explains the projected increase of 7.9% over the medium term in expenditure in the Specialised Interventions sub-programme in the Visible Policing programme.
Towards the end of 2017/2018 financial year and emanating from staffing priorities defined within the department’s Annual Performance Plan for 2017/2018, adequate human resource capacity will be established at local level with specific focus on the
Visible Policing and the Detective environment. In terms of planned figures, the total percentage distribution of personnel in relation to the total staff compliment of the department at station level will be increased from 60.4% to 61.78%.
In terms of the planned post allocation criteria of the department for the 2017/2018 financial year, 81% of all replacement posts will be prioritised towards the recruitment of SAPS Act personnel. This will ensure an improved frontline capability of the department. In addition, the department has prioritised the recruitment of reservists, as a force multiplier at local level, during the 2017/2018 financial year. It is envisaged that a total of 2610 reservists will be appointed.
A total of R2.5 billion is allocated over the Medium Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF period to the Administration programme to build, upgrade and maintain police stations. The department plans to build 63 additional police stations over the period at an estimated cost of R588.3 million. The department also plans to prioritise the replacement of vehicles that have mileage in excess of 200 000 kilometres as these vehicles, which constituted 35% of the total fleet at the end of 2015/16, require significant maintenance each year. An amount of R5.7 billion is allocated over
the medium term for transportation equipment, including vehicles, and R4.5 billion is budgeted for fleet maintenance.
The department is currently procuring 3379 vehicles to address the shortages in the provinces. Work sessions were conducted with all the Provincial Fleet Managers to sensitise them on the issuing of vehicles to the correct terrains in the provinces.
Hon Chair, the current biggest challenge faced by the SAPS is the trio crimes or the three most serious crimes in our country: car- hijacking, robbery-residential and robbery-non-residential.
On 7 March 2017, the Acting National Commissioner officially launched the National Trio Crimes Task Team with a view of ensuring integration of SAPS response to these crimes and ensure that the task team leverage on all available resources. The task team was mandated to develop a National Action Plan to address trio crimes in the Top 20 Trio Crime Clusters and the plan will be implemented with effect from 1 April 2017.
The maintenance of internal stability remains one of the key challenges for the SAPS in the current epoch. The key drivers of broad public discontent persisted during 2016/17 and included issues
of inadequate access to housing; the provision of basic services; lack of employment opportunities; corruption associated with the allocation of tenders; dissatisfaction with the restructuring of municipal boundaries and economic disparity, including #FeesMustFall campaign which manifested in peaceful and violent community protests.
A trend that was identified in the build-up towards the 2016 Local Government Elections of increased number of violent protest actions continues. The violent protest increased by 87.9% as opposed to peaceful protests which increased by 25.1%. There are those who want to perpetuate crime and seek to divert our attention by using public protests to masquerade their acts of criminality.
The new Public Order Policing policy provides direction for a human rights-based approach to dealing with public protection and is supported by the Dangerous Weapons Act, 2013 (Act No 13 of 2013).
In the State of the Nation Address, President Jacob Zuma directed the Justice Crime Prevention and Security, JCPS, Cluster to put measures in place to ensure that any incidents of violent protest are acted upon, investigated and the perpetrators prosecuted. The SAPS will ensure that dedicated capacity exists to manage public
disorder and will integrate with all relevant capabilities in the public and private sectors to ensure that the President’s requirements in this regard, are met.
In addition, partnerships with other government departments become essential in addressing the root causes of public protest. The Republic is currently experiencing an upsurge in violent incidents which is requiring urgent additional interventions from SAPS. The department plans to develop a plan to expand public order policing; re-establish units in Cape Town, Durban and Nelspruit; re-establish
15 dormant units; establish eight new units; and expand public order policing personnel to 8 820 members by 2019/2020.
Inspired by the words of Comrade Steve Tshwete, our message to the criminal elements is unequivocally loud and clear #operationwashatsotsi. I thank you.
Mr F BEUKMAN: House Chairperson, Minister of Police hon Fikile Mbalula, Deputy Minister Mkongi, Members of Cabinet, Deputy Ministers, MECs of the various provinces, hon members, the accounting officers of the SA Police Service, the SAPS, the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Ipid, the Civilian Secretariat, the director and chair of the Private Security Industry
Regulatory Authority, Psira, the chairperson of the Firearms Appeal Board, and fellow South Africans, the Portfolio Committee on Police received briefings from the SAPS on their 2017-18 budget and performance plan on 2, 3 and 4 May 2017. The Directorate for Priority Crime Investigation, DPCI, briefed the committee on 4 May 2017. Briefings were also received from the Ipid and the Civilian Secretariat for Police on 5 May 2017. National Treasury and civil society also gave inputs on the Budget Vote, including the SA Policing Union and a police expert, Mr Eldred de Klerk. The reports dealing with the three entities respectively were adopted by the portfolio committee on Wednesday, 17 May and published in the ATC on the same date.
In its findings and observations, the committee specifically focussed on the professionalisation and demilitarisation of the police; ethical leadership and more stringent vetting procedures; the importance of technology in the fight against crime; the importance of comprehensive training for station and cluster commanders; to prioritise cybercrime; detective services be given special attention with regard to performance management; the strengthening of crime intelligence and the maximising of its geographical spread; optimising the conditions of service for the
SAPS members; and importantly, the repositioning of the Civilian Secretariat as an oversight and policy advisory body.
In the case of the SAPS, 28 recommendations were made; with relation to Ipid, 13 recommendations were made; and in the case of the Civilian Secretariat, 20 recommendations were made. The implementation of the recommendations will be monitored by the committee in the next few months. I want to thank all members of the committee for their contributions during the process.
During the 2017 state of the nation address, the President placed the fight against crime as one of the apex priorities of government. He noted that increased visibility of the police should become a priority, which builds on from the Safer Festive Season programme.
The tactical response teams and the National Intervention Unit would be used to deal with high crime areas and where communities experience hijackings and robberies. He also called for communities to build partnerships with the police to fight crime. The President noted that the establishment of specialised units must assist with drugs, taxi violence and firearm violence. On page 391 of the National Development Plan, NDP, the following statement is made:
Re-establish specialised units staffed with highly trained and professional police officers, to respond to changing crime trends such as narcotics, cybercrime, human trafficking, crimes against women and children, and international crime syndicates.
We agree and strongly endorse the view that the new policing environment necessitates specialisation and well-trained members to deal with a multitude of crime challenges.
The hon Minister referred to the allocations to the three institutions, and we should also note that the SAPS receives the second largest individual Vote of the Budget which is 11,3% of the total national Budget. The Minister also referred to the
R2,5 million that is allocated over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, MTEF, period to the administration programme to build, upgrade and maintain police stations. The committee highlighted the following recommendation again this year. The committee recommends that the policing model should make provision for equity of police services in urban, rural and deep rural areas and geographic divides. This includes clear provision of police resources to historically disadvantaged areas that does not discriminate against areas which have disproportionally high crime rates or are economically disadvantaged.
We have seen over the last few years a delay in the completion of police stations due to various factors. Projects take too long and cost overruns are the order of the day. The net effect is that service delivery is severely hampered. We have requested the SAPS’ management to provide Parliament with a full report on the building environment with the top 10 building projects for each province, and with expected start and completion dates.
The answer to fighting crime does not only lie with new stand-alone brick and mortar police stations — and I think the hon Minister referred to that — but shared service points with other departments, multipurpose centres, e-policing solutions, co-operation with private-sector initiatives, co-operation agreements with the private security industry, and most importantly sustainable co-operation with the community at large.
We welcome the undertaking by the hon Minister of Police that the process for the appointment of the new national commissioner for the SAPS will be prioritised after June 2017. The SAPS needs a new permanent police commissioner with the stature and expertise to take the organisation forward. The committee has also recommended that the position of deputy national commissioner for crime detection be finalised. The appointment of a new, permanent and suitably
qualified candidate to lead the crime intelligence division is also critical.
During last year’s Budget debate, we highlighted the importance of leadership at station and cluster level. We also emphasised the important role of the management intervention division in tackling these challenges. We have since then witnessed various visits by the President and the Minister to police stations around the country. We also noted the comments of the President last week in Elsies River. Once again we want to underscore the following. We need a more hands-on approach, with nonperforming police stations and units as the primary focus. Turnaround times for dealing with station management failures and resource allocation challenges to units should improve drastically. Part of transforming the Police Service and the back to basics campaign is to ensure better frontline service delivery and to improve the professional conduct of police officers.
The hon Minister referred to the pilot project and that also makes provision for the introduction of standardised signage and branding, police facility refurbishment, and basic police machinery and equipment acquired around the country.
During the recent constituency period, I visited police stations in Paarl, Wellington, Saron and Gouda, and I was impressed with the dedication of the station commanders I interacted with. We want to thank those station and cluster commanders throughout the country who are willing the walk the extra mile, and are indeed contributing to the ideal of a Service that is trusted by the people.
The Portfolio Committee on Police will, at the end of June, crisscross KwaZulu-Natal doing unannounced and announced visits to police stations and units in the province to scrutinise service delivery.
One of the important institutions that is provided for in the Constitution to promote oversight over the police to act as an advisory body to the Minister of Police is the Civilian Secretariat. We support the Minister’s intention to reprioritise the secretariat as the Department of Police.
The Civilian Secretariat should set the pace for police reform in South Africa and the committee has recommended that the Civilian Secretariat delivers on the NDP with respect to demilitarisation, professionalisation and the institution of the national police board. The NDP is very clear on page 390 in stating that:
A national policing board should be established with multisectoral and multidisciplinary expertise. It should set standards for recruiting, selecting, appointing and promoting police officials and police officers. The board should also develop a code of ethics and analyse the professional standing of policing, based on international norms and standards.
We welcome the commitment by the secretariat to embark on a state of policing report for the Republic of South Africa in the 2017-18 financial year. This will be a first for our country. The portfolio committee sees the state of policing report as an important measurement tool that can provide an assessment of the efficiency and effectiveness of policing in South Africa on an annual basis.
Two matters that need the urgent attention of the Civilian Secretariat is the development of a policy proposal and a study on e-policing and digital policing. The portfolio committee has included this as a recommendation. The law enforcement environment is a fast-changing and evolving area. Criminals have adapted to and embraced the technological advances of the 21st century. The SA Banking Risk Information Centre estimates that the country loses R2,2 billion to internet fraud and phishing attacks annually. It’s about R5,5 million a day.
According to the Norton Cybersecurity Insights report, over
8,8 million South Africans were the target of online or cybercrime last year. Unless e-policing and digital policing become part of the law and order lexicon of the Police Service, the Police Service will be left behind and society will suffer the unintended consequences.
The ANC in its discussion document for the upcoming fifth policy conference that will take place in July 2017, indicates the following, amongst others, as threats to economic development, namely illicit financial flows, corruption, illicit mining and wildlife crimes.
We have seen over the last 10 years the development of international crime syndicates that traffic people, drugs, illegal tobacco imports and arms smuggling, amongst others. The unit in the SAPS that is legally mandated to deal with national priority offences, organised crime syndicates, serious commercial crime and corruption is the DPCI, better known as the Hawks. The committee recommends that the DPCI focuses on levels 4 to 5 in fighting organised crime as part of the criminal value chain.
Furthermore, that the DPCI completes its organisational design assessment on the illegal firearms unit and the narcotics unit
within six months. The committee further recommends that the DPCI compiles a budget for the DPCI and the two new units, and makes a submission through the accounting officer to National Treasury and Parliament.
From an international perspective, the most significant crime threat to countries in the next 10 years will be cybercrime. The DPCI needs to ensure that the establishment, capacity and training of staff for the cybercrime centre be prioritised during the financial year.
The safety of our men in blue must receive the highest priority from the executive authority. Apart from the operational and tactical measures, we need more innovation. The Portfolio Committee on Police has made two specific budget recommendations to the SAPS management is this regard, namely closed-circuit television, CCTV, cameras should be installed in community centres at all police stations in South Africa; and secondly, the SAPS should implement body cameras, cams, for frontline service staff. This is in line with the ministerial priority to use technology to the maximum in the fight against crime. Minister, you should not accommodate bureaucratic excuses such as, it is too difficult or we do not have the capacity to store the information. Other countries and jurisdictions are
implementing these measures with success. These measures should be implemented as a matter of priority.
The ANC wants to pay tribute to those members of the SAPS who died in the line of duty since the last Budget Vote debate. We honour their contribution in the fight against crime and in keeping our communities safe. Our prayers and thoughts are with their families and loved ones. The White Paper on Policing ... [Time expired.] [Applause.]
IsiZulu:
Mnu Z N MBHELE: Sihlalo, ngibingelela uNgqongqoshe noSekela Ngqongqoshe, amalunga ekomiti nabahlonishwa kule Ndlu.
English:
Chairperson, at the occasion of this budget debate, it would be safe to say that this portfolio is in a critical condition. The good news is that Minister Nhleko is gone. The damage he inflicted both on this portfolio and on the reputation of its political leadership during his tenure will be his enduring legacy, which the new Minister must now work to repair. The bad news is that the shoddy state of the police service has seemingly hardly changed from what
it was this time last year, or the year before that or several years going back, due to chronic negligence and mismanagement.
The SA Police Service at station level is still characterised by the four U’s: Under-staffed; under-resourced; under-equipped; and under- trained. The root cause of this appalling situation is poor leadership with skewed priorities that fail to enforce strong accountability. Case in point being the suspended acting commissioner Piyega, who even despite the damning findings of the Farlam Commission is happily earning her salary on suspension until her contract expires. She should have been shafted the moment those findings came out.
Chairperson, until these fundamentals of leadership and proper organisational and systems management are fixed, there is no hope of making the police service more effective and therefore, no hope of making our country safer. It’s as simple as that. The scourge of violence against women and children has recently been under the spotlight yet again and we must reflect on the shortcomings of the organs of state that are meant to play a key role to keep safe the most vulnerable in our society.
The DA has already written to National Assembly Speaker, Baleka Mbete, to request a debate of national public importance on violence against women and we have also requested a joint meeting of the Portfolio Committees on Police, Justice and Women to discuss the government’s lack of effective response to violence against women.
When it comes to domestic and gender-based violence, we know that the first key mistake made was the dissolution of specialised units in the mid-2000s. That mistake fortunately has since been rectified with the re-introduction of the Family Violence, Child Protection and Sexual Offences Units but these units on average remain understaffed and under resourced and there simply are not enough of them. What this means is that the police have one hand tied behind their back when trying to combat violence against women by ensuring that perpetrators do not get away with these crimes, as a result of swift, quality investigations that secure high conviction rates.
That is why it is a sad day when the Minister responsible for wome, Susan Shabangu, stated on Checkpoint that ―while Karabo came across as very strong, she was weak and hence became a victim of abuse‖.
The DA calls on her to immediately retract these careless and callous remarks and that she apologise to Karabo’s family.
While the police cannot by themselves prevent domestic violence or rape, effective policing can ensure that justice is served for every
victim and that every perpetrator can be made an example of. However, this effective policing cannot be realised while many stations do not have victim-friendly rooms and rape test kits. Effective policing can also not be realised when, as often happens in much of the country, there aren’t enough vehicles to undertake visible patrols or respond to emergency call-outs. In short, there will be no effective policing until the leadership, management and operation of the police service shifts from business as usual to business unusual. I was glad to hear the Minister made use of this term as part describing his intentions and agenda.
Unfortunately, the 2017-18 SAPS budget does not indicate any such shift but rather signals that we can expect more of the same.
Alarmingly, the programmes of the SAPS that are crucial and directly relevant for crime-fighting and reduction, that is, crime intelligence and detective services, are receiving the lowest relative percentage increase from 2016-17 to this financial year.
While the Minister mentioned the budget total of R87 billion for 2017-18, we just never seem to get bang for our buck.
Sex trafficking syndicates who prey on vulnerable girls and women in this country will not be tackled and defeated without an effective
crime intelligence division. Unless we boost detective services, those who commit violence against women and children will know that they can do so with impunity and have little chance of getting caught and facing the consequences. So, we need this new business unusual approach in policing and it must start with you, Minister Mbalula. You must provide decisive political leadership. When your appointment was announced, you wasted no time in bringing your bombastic and colourful use of language and steroid-pumped social media savvy to matters of crime-fighting and policing. From #WanyaTsotsi to reckless statements that police must fight fire with fire, you made a big splash, however I was concerned that you might have been missing the point. To quote researcher and analyst, Gareth Newham, from the Institute for Security Studies:
One of [a Police Minister’s] key jobs is to create public trust in the police. People’s experiences are largely affected by how they experience the police first-hand and second-hand. To build the public’s trust, the police must deliver better service, which [the Minister] can ensure through improving police training, provision of equipment, the morale of officers and adherence to the service’s code of conduct and ethics. You can’t spin your way out of it. There’s no short cut to improving public perceptions.
Minister, that trust building process is about getting the basics right and fixing the fundamentals of the police service and as I tweeted to you just over two weeks ago fighting crime is more than blitz operations. It is about day-to-day systems management: vehicles, personnel, equipment, and skills. That is where the focus must be and remain.
Some final good news, however, is that the ANC only has two more years left in government. [Applause.] After that, the DA will demonstrate our resolve to bringing safe streets and safe homes to all communities, where everyone can live with true freedom, to gain meaningful opportunities through the work of the national government that we will lead after 2019.
Mr N PAULSEN: Hon Chairperson, the EFF rejects both Budget Vote 23 and Budget Vote 20 on Police and the Independent Police Investigative Directorate respectively.
Last weekend in Parliament, we witnessed one of the most shameful acts of our democracy, where the Acting National Commissioner and the Executive Director of Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Ipid, fought in front of everyone. They fought because Phahlane is investigating allegations of corruption, money
laundering and defeating the ends of justice after being accused of contravening the Prevention of Organised Crime Act. Instead of defending the allegation that he was interfering with the investigations, Phahlane went on a counter-offensive against McBride.
Our view is that Phahlane must be suspended with immediate effect while the investigation against him continues. The continuing fight between these two agencies will only help criminals, some of whom are within the SA Police Service.
South Africa is a country gripped in a crime crisis that the ANC seems to not to know how to deal with. Between 2006 and 2016, there has been an increase of 20% in the murder rate in this country, and as per the last crime statistics, about 51 people were being murdered in South Africa every day. Statistics showed that at least
142 women were getting sexually violated in this country every single day, and that this may also be an understatement of the problem because most cases of sexual violation do not get reported.
Minister, I am happy that you have noted the horror, the heinous crimes recently against children, babies, young women and the
elderly who are raped and murdered in this country. In this vain, we call on all men in society to stand up and say, not in our name.
The dastardly criminal acts of a few men must be thoroughly condemned by all in society. We further call upon all churches, civil society organisations and all other social structures to lead programmes that seek to educate men about the pain they are subjecting society to.
We call on all EFF branches across the length and breadth of this country to be visible activists against the abuse of women and children. While all this is happening, the SA Police Service has no permanent National Commissioner, and the one who is acting is embroiled in various scandals of a criminal nature. The National Head of Hawks, Burnings Ntlemeza, an apartheid era policeman who was described as dishonest by a High Court judge is also involved in a tit-for-tat fight with Mr Mbalula.
The Crime Intelligence Unit has not recovered from the mess created by the Richard Mdluli years of mismanagement and targeted political investigations. As a result, Crime Intelligence in this country is in shambles and unable to function proficiently. You add this to a dysfunctional National Prosecuting Authority and you are having in
your hands an explosion waiting to happen. The result is criminals are reigning supreme in this country, knowing full well that chances of being caught are almost zero.
The origin of all these problems can be traced down to one man, and his name is Jacob Zuma. It is public knowledge that Richard Mdluli wrote to Zuma and told him ... [Interjections.]
Mr B A RADEBE: On a point of order.
Mr N PAULSEN: ... that he win among ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Paulsen, let me take this point of order, please. Why are you rising, hon member?
Mr B A RADEBE: Yes, Chair, I am rising on the point of order that the President must be refered to as the hon President. Then, number two ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, in terms of Rule 82, we refer to each other in respectful terms not on first names.
Mr N PAULSEN: It is public knowledge that Richard Mdluli wrote to Zuma and told him that he will ensure that he wins the Mangaung Conference if Mdluli could be secured the position of National Head of Crime Intelligence.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member! Hon Paulsen. I have just called you to order. Can you respect Rule 82, where we refer to each other in respectful terms and not on first names or surnames only? It applies to everyone.
Mr N PAULSEN: It is well known fact that Zuma used Ntlemeza to harass his arch nemesis, Pravin Gordhan.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, I have now called you to order. I have called you to order three times for exactly the same thing. If you do not respect Rule 82, then I will have to enforce Rule 68 or 69. Please, respect the Chair with the ruling.
Mr N PAULSEN: His main interest has been on marginalising the security apparatus of the state so that they can fight his personal sinister battles and protect him from being held to account. It was for this reason that Nathi Nhleko harassed McBride at every
opportunity because he refused to do their dirty tricks. [Interjections.]
Mr B A RADEBE: Again, on it again.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Paulsen, there is another point of order. Yes, hon member.
Mr B A RADEBE: Again, the hon member has refer to an hon Minister in the first name terms of which he knows very well is not ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, Paulsen, let me read to you Rule 68. The presiding officer may order a member addressing the House to stop speaking if that member despite warnings from the Chair persists. So, please respect the Rules. [Interjections.] No, order hon member. Order! [Interjections.] Order!
Mr N PAULSEN: You can put me out yourself.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members, comes down.
Mr N PAULSEN: You can put me out yourself.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Come down. Hon Paulsen, you must conclude now.
Mr N PAULSEN: Mr Zuma has now captured all institutions tasked with securing the country and has ensured that their daily activities have nothing to do with securing the country and everything to do with securing Mr Zuma, the individual. Mr Mbalula is just an attention seeking person who has neither the capacity nor the intellectual strength to turn SA Police Service, SAPS, around. It’s for this reason that we reject this budget.
Mr B A RADEBE: On a point of order, Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, your time has now expired.
Mr N PAULSEN: Thank you very much.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick):): Yes, hon member.
Mr B A RADEBE: I was rising on Rule 84 that you cannot use disparaging remarks against the members.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick)): I am sure the Minister will respond to that remark when he replies, hon member.
Mr N SINGH: Hon Chairperson, hon Mncwango serves on this portfolio committee but fortunately he is deployed to another area, Nquthu Municipal, which we are going to rightfully win tomorrow. I hope that the police are there to ensure that democracy prevails.
Hon Chairperson, this Budget Vote comes at a time when the SA Police Service, SAPS, and Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Ipid, relationship is at an all-time low. How does one affectively fight the already rampant crime on our streets whilst one is focused on a departmental stand off against one another? The Minister must intervene in this impasse and urgently resolve the situation so that both departments can return to focusing on their respective mandates to the people of South Africa.
Gender-based violence and violence against children remains an extremely serious concern and it seems as if we are a society that is losing this fight to protect our women and children. In Gauteng
alone, there have been five murders or rapes in and around Soweto over the last five days. Last week, 11 men appeared in court in connection with gang-raping a 22-year-old pregnant woman.
Gang-violence, hon Chairperson, particularly in the Western Cape remains a concern as well as the ongoing turf wars between the various bouncer groups that use out cities night clubs as platforms to ply their nefarious trades.
There have already been incidents, one not so long ago at Camps Bay nightclub, in which an innocent patron was shot and wounded and there are fears that violence will escalate. I trust that SAPS Crime Intelligence is already hard at work on this matter as these night clubs are often frequented by our young adults, our sons and daughters. Another aspect in all of this, hon Chair, to the Minister, is the question of police complicity in some of these criminal acts. Is this possibility being investigated by Ipid?
A holistic approach towards crime fighting is needed, and it begins from a police recruitment perspective, with the correct screening and psychological profiling of the incumbent cadet. Then, there is the police training; how many times have we seen reports of policemen who are untrained, cannot handle firearms. Then, of
course, hon Chairperson and Minister, we commend those committed men in blue to face danger daily under trying circumstances. In these trying circumstances are not having bullet proof vests, a police force that does not have proper working vehicles and radios.
Hon Minister, you have inherited a department whose mandate is critical to the success story that we are all trying to build here in South Africa. This department is unfortunately floundering at the moment. It is distracted by sideshows and leadership at odds with itself. It sorely requires strong and committed leadership and a Back to Basics Approach. The IFP wishes you well in this portfolio. You have a poison chalice, but we hope hon Minister that you don’t go around assessing fire pools, but deal with the issue of fighting crime. I thank you, hon Chairperson.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon Chairperson, Minister and Deputy Minister, let me congratulate both of you on your appointments and I do hope that you will have a positive influence on solving crimes in South Africa. The NFP supports both Votes 20 and 23 tabled here today. [Applause.] The NFP also wants to commend men and women in blue who under very difficult circumstances and the serious challenges faced in South Africa; I think they perform exceptionally well. However,
there are challenges which I think and hope that the Minister and his team will address in the near future.
We must also not forget that the serious challenges we are facing in terms of crime in the country cannot be only sorted out by the police. We have serious challenges of inequality and the socioeconomic condition ... [Inaudible.] ... Let me just give you the example, we are going to talk about, particularly, Cape Town being the murder capital of the world where there is high crime rates or we are talking about the gang violence. If you allow people to continue living under the conditions that they are living, with the alcohol problem, with the drug problem, with the gang violence problem and living in these 42m2 sharks you will understand. Now introducing backyard dwelling, one on top of the other and with the high unemployment rate, surely you are going to expect these challenges that the people are facing.
It makes very, very difficult on the police to work in isolation to be able to resolve these things. They have to work with the Social Development, Department of Health, Department of Water and Sanitation and all the relevant departments in order to be able to address these. Otherwise, we cannot win this war on crime in South Africa. Minister, I like your words when you say that take a hard
line on criminals. Treat them with the contempt that they deserve because why should the criminals treat and murder and do what they do to our people and then what we must treat them ... [Inaudible.]
... I don’t think it is acceptable at all. I also agree that if you don’t shoot the criminal he is going to shoot you. There is no doubt about it.
Let me also add that what we have done is that we have given police officers bullet proof vests. The criminals are so smart, they are shooting you anymore and they are shooting on your head. What is the purpose of the bullet proof vests? [Laughter.] Therefore, I am saying that we need to move on the time and I agree with the Minister. If you are faced with a dangerous situation where your life is in danger, then it is either you take the criminal or you do what you have to do because at the end of the day that one police officer has to protect many others while that criminal is just enjoying himself and doing.
It is very clear that in South Africa the criminals have too much of privileges in terms of the law. The law actually protects the criminals rather than protecting the innocent. [Interjections.] Maybe, yes, we are talking about the criminals because you were one of those and part and parcel. You don’t understand. Let me tell you
why you won’t understand. You won the DA and you won’t understand for one simple reason ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Shaik, address the Chair, please.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: ... because the people that you protect and you promote don’t live under those squalor conditions. That is the difference here. You have dumped our poorest of people in such condition. That is why they live in the way they are. That is why there is such a high crime rate in South Africa. Let me tell you that you are here only to protect the monopoly and you want to protect the capital and the whites. That is what it is all about. Let us be honest about it. [Applause.]
You have no interest, the only time you have an interest in the poorest of the poor is when you go there with the truck road of wine to give them one week before the elections. That is what you are basically doing. That is the problem with you. The NFP supports this Budget Votes 20 and 23. Thank you. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members, order! Order, hon members! Calm down. The next speaker is the hon Deputy Minister of Police.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF POLICE: Hon Chairperson, Members of Parliament and all entities of the police, today marks 53 days after the President, His Excellency President Jacob Zuma, reshuffled his own Cabinet. During the process of the Cabinet reshuffling by the President, he appointed Minister Fikile Mbalula to be the Minister of Police and appointed hon Bongani Mkongi to be the Deputy Minister of Police. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members, order! Order, hon members! Hon Mkongi! Hon members, give the hon Deputy Minister a chance. Order, hon members!
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF POLICE: The President gave us clear marching orders. He said to us that we must make the people of South Africa to feel safe at all times. He also told us to make South Africa a safer place to be. In this regard, the President emphasised that we must boost the moral of the police. He further emphasised that we must inspire hope amongst our people. Lastly, he commanded us to declare war against criminals and criminality in the Republic of
South Africa. [Applause.] The issues raised by the President serves as the catalyst to the National Development Plan as they seek to professionalise the police, promote integration and community participation and demilitarise the police service. These strategic pillars of the National Development Plan, NDP, are critical in ensuring that ―all people of South Africa are and feel safe‖.
The notion speaks to the basic needs of human beings as articulated by Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. It also find its space to a call made by the former President of the Republic, Mr Rolihlahla Mandela, where he emphasised that the country must look after the elderly, the young and the vulnerable. Women, children and other vulnerable groups of our country must feel free to walk at any time in the streets and villages of our country. Domestic violence should be defeated.
Great strides have been made in fighting the frontiers of crime in our country. According to Statistics SA, household crime rate defined as the proportion of all households who experienced crime in the past 12 months dropped from 12,1% in 2011 for male-headed households to 7% in 2016. For female-headed households, crime dropped from 10% in 2011 to 6% in 2016. Home robbery in particular
dropped from 2,4% in 2010 to 1,1% in 2015-16. However, the rate of
reporting home robbery to the police increased from 57,1% in 2010 to 64,8% in 2015-16. Police data also show that the total number of home robberies reported as a proportion of the population increased between 2011 and 2016. The increase in reporting rates may have created impression that actual crime experienced by households is increasing. Even though the general crime level has improved between 2011 and 2016 public perception on crime trends is negative more and more people believe that the crime situation has deteriorated over the years.
In doing so, we commit ourselves to promote ethical and moral values among the South African Police Service for the delivery of professional service. We will do this by obtaining first hand information about the status of policing in the Republic. To us in the Ministry of Police the status of policing in South Africa cannot be divorced from the strategic economics of policing and economics of crime in South Africa. It is our considered view that our men and women in blue are doing a great job. Killing of the police is equal to the killing of the nation. As a country we need to invest in improving the conditions of services of the police, this include taking a lead towards their safety and promoting wellness programs that seek to improve the working conditions of the police. We need
to review robustly the salaries of the police officials, in particular those at lower levels. [Applause.]
It is our priority as the Ministry of Police that matters of nonstatutory forces should be a priority in this financial year. In the same light we are encouraging efforts by Civilian Secretariat for Police Service and Independent Police Investigative Directorate which are aimed at democratising policing in various fronts such as police conduct, performance and compliance. We will intensify our operations in addressing crime such as road blocks, visible policing, robust crime intelligence and targeted investigations.
Whilst promoting human rights approach, police should not have sympathy to the hardened criminals who are heavily armed with an agenda of killing innocent police officials.
As from 31 March 2017, we have made great strides in our war against crime. Within this short period we have pushed back some frontiers of crime and criminality in our own country. We are responding to the calls of the Nyanga and Khayelitsha communities where they vigorously raised concerns about the skewed resource allocations plans to build a palace police station in Muizenberg. It is our view that the distribution of resources should be informed by the practical material conditions. For example, there are top 10 crime
spot areas in the Western Cape. In those areas Nyanga and Khayelitsha have been declared as a murder capital for more than five years without sufficient physical resources. Whilst we promote efforts to fight crime in any part of the country including Muizenberg, it should be noted that that area does not fall as part of the 10 crime hot spot areas in the Western Cape. Therefore, we are going to change those resources.
As we march together in unison with all our people, we give a hand of partnership to our communities in our war against crime. We are doing this by mobilising our people through izimbizo and outreach programs. We began this important work through our provincial tours against crime. For instance, in the Eastern Cape we have started by engaging with the Kingdom and the traditional leadership of Ama- Rharhabe. This was followed by few road blocks in the areas, invasion of hotspots of crime in East London in an area called California and an Imbizo in Fort Beaufort area. In the road block between East London and King Williams Town we recovered R43 OOO from those who had warrants of arrest. We also initiated a stakeholder engagement in the Walter Sisulu University, where a last year medical student was brutally murdered by his fellow colleagues. This was followed by the visit to his family in Cofimvaba. On 18 May 2017, we visited the Kingdom of Aba Thembu, this was followed by the
handover of the mobile police station in Umtata area and community engagement in uMqanduli area.
Lastly, we met stakeholders in the Durban Metro, followed by an unannounced police station visits in Umlazi, Bheki Themba and KwaDabeka Police Station in Claremont. The concerns raised in all these community gatherings are all of a similar in nature. Through outreach programs we managed to identify critical hotspots for different crimes categories including social ills. One of these hotspots included areas manifested by stock theft. Solving of this crime does not only require investigation but multidisciplinary collaborated interventions for prevention purposes. We also realised that some of the hotspots are manifested by the prevalence of violence against the vulnerable groups more specifically elders, women, people with disability, youth and children. One of the critical areas identified are the challenges that are mainly facing youth, which is drug and substance abuse. The hotspots relating to this type of crime suggest that a market for drugs is available in these areas, with the likelihood of being organised.
The stabilisation and normalisation of these hotspots will be realised through a systematic and multifaceted approach which will apply both the conventional and unconventional policing approach. In
order to address drugs, we have already ordered the operationalisation of a drug master plan which will result in a dedicated departmental drug action plan cascaded into local drug action plans. I thank you very much. [Applause.] [Time expired.]
Afrikaans:
Mr H B GROENEWALD: Agb Voorsitter, as die Adjunkminister van Justisie en Korrektiewe Dienste met twee lyfwagte beroof word van sy selfoon en sy motor dan behoort die Minister homself af te vra hoe veilig die gewone burger in Suid-Afrika is. Dit is waar die kern van die probleem is. As ons gaan kyk na die misdaadstatistiek, sien ons dat dit die vierde agtereenvolgende jaar is waar die moordsyfer in Suid-Afrika gestyg het en dis tot die jaar 2015-16. Ons wag vir die nuutste statistiek, maar ek wil voorspel dat dit die vyfde agtereenvolgende jaar gaan wees wat moord in Suid-Afrika gestyg het. Die laaster syfer was 18 673 moorde in Suid-Afrika, waarvan ons weet.
Ons vra onsself die vraag af: Wat gaan in Suid-Afrika aan, as ons kyk na die moord en die misdaad teen vroue en kinders? Die wyse waarop die polisie geweldsmisdade in terms van huishoudelike geweld hanteer in Suid-Afrika is nie op standaard nie. Die algemene persepsie is, dat as dit huishoudelike geweld is, gaan daar nie
regtig ’n volledige ondersoek kom nie en daar gaan nie ’n daadwerklike vervolging plaasvind nie. Dit is die teelaarde waarop ons vandag sit waar vroue en kinders weerdaardig vermoor word. Die misdadigers dink dat daar niks met hulle gaan gebeur nie en wat dit betref sal daar ernstig aandag gegee moet word.
English:
Hon Minister, you say that you want to disarm South Africa. With great respect, I understand you are a new Minister, but I don’t think you know what you are talking about. If you disarm South Africa, you arm the criminals of South Africa and you enhance criminality by creating better opportunities for the criminals to ensure that ordinary citizens become victims of crime. Maybe you are not aware of it. Are you aware of the fact more people in South Africa die because of stabbing wounds than of firearms? That is the statistics given by your predecessor.
Are you aware of the fact that if you look at legal firearm owners, only 0,007% are cases where murders took place with the legal firearms? So, with great respect, that is part of the problem in South Africa. You are making popular statements, creating expectations which you cannot fulfil.
Afrikaans:
Dit is deel van die probleem. Die agb Minister het self gesê dat daar ’n toename van 87,5% in protesoptogte is. Dit is omdat die regering van die dag beloftes maak wat hulle nie kan nakom nie en dan verwag hulle dat die polisie die mense moet kalmeer en orde moet handhaaf. U is die oorsaak van daardie optogte. Ek salueer daardie polisiemanne en vroue wat die moeite doen en hard werk om ons veilig te hou. Ek dank u.
Mr L RAMATLAKANE: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister Mbalula, Ministers and Deputy Ministers, firstly, let me just say that I did not know until this afternoon that hon Mbhele is a daydreamer. He dreams about these two years. Dream on, sir. You are just not going to be able to govern in 2019. You are simply dreaming, but dream on. The EFF speaks about ... And by the way, I think we must forgive the hon Paulsen because he is not a member of the committee and he does not have all the information of the committee. He also does not participate in the committee, so we must forgive him. The issue that he raises is about the infighting and the tension. It has been handled by the committee and the Minister has intervened to find a solution in that regard. But he, including hon Singh, I think the information that ... And you did say that you don’t participate in
the committee. So, it has been handled and the ANC government will find a solution there.
Let me thank the men and women in blue, in the first instance. They are at the coalface of fighting crime. There are thousands and thousands of men and women in blue who are committed in this country. They continue to fight to make South Africa a better place for all.
We assemble here today to consider the Budget Vote of the South African Police Services, SAPS. This comes at a critical time in the country, as we see the levels of violence against women and children increase above our expectation. The development of such violence must be stopped wherever it emerges and we call on all men in the country to support the efforts of the police, to put an end to this abuse, rape and killing of women and children.
The mission of the police is basically and inextricably linked with the mission of the African National Congress that sees policing as a public service to the people of our country.
The South African Police Services is the body that guarantees the safety of our people, to enjoy our freedom. We sleep peaceful at
night because the men and women in blue are keeping us safe. Let me make the point that the South African Police Services upholds the Constitution, ensures that the wheels of our democracy do not come off.
The South African Police Services has to do so by working with our people and our communities and building sustainable partnerships, which in turn build safer communities.
We all know that our communities are the best repository of information and there can be no real lasting partnership with the community if it is not based on mutual trust and respect. It cannot succeed without trust.
That is why we have to ensure that the South African Police Services and all its sections cultivate public trust in our communities. If people do not trust the police, they will not provide credible information about criminality in their neighbourhoods.
In this respect, we have to ensure that the South African Police Services detection rate is increased, in order to make our communities safer places. This also ensures that criminals and ―want
to be criminals‖ know for sure that the consequences for their actions will be dire.
The budget makes it possible for the police to work and arrest those who break the law. The killers of women and girl children by close associates are a concern that must be addressed by policy, training and the implementation of command and control in investigations. We cannot and should not accept what happened to the investigation into the disappearance of Courtney Peters.
How could the police have entered her home, treat it like a crime scene and not pick up that she was murdered in her own home? And then they treat the parents like suspects. This is unacceptable detective work and we have to ensure that the detection rate is increased through command and control, training and efficient crime- scene management.
The police officers who initially worked on the case of Courtney Peters should be ashamed. They have failed our community, Courtney Peters and thousands of other girl children such as Courtney Peters across the country. We expect that the detective programme should do much more in arresting perpetrators with excellent investigative work. They should go beyond the bounds of normal duty to ensure
that, in cases of women and children, they leave no stone unturned in finding the perpetrators in the maximum time and before they can do harm to others.
It is also disappointing that in cases such as this, we have the Family Violence, Child Protection and Sexual Offences, FCS, units to deal with such cases. Our investments in such units must be increased and it is very disappointing that in the Western Cape, the Head of the FCS unit, Colonel Harri is being victimised by the police management. Why do we not utilise the resources where it matters most?
This must stop, as it weakens the resolve of the SAPS to deliver such services to the public. We cannot afford the experience of such a good detective to be wasted by ill-sighted provincial management.
The year of the detective demonstrated a serious commitment towards building the capacity of detectives, so that they are able to discharge their work effectively and efficiently. We must state that we view the detectives as the core function of policing work and they have to be at the centre of problem solving.
There were several commitments that the detective and the SAPS made at workshops and dialogues led by Parliament and we want to see those commitments implemented.
The budget for the detective services have increased by 6,9. The SAPS has established a National Trio Crimes Task team to investigate the top 20 trio crimes, nationally, from 1 April and we welcome this approach. Up to 43% of registered crime projects were successfully terminated. We should be concerned if the targets are low and then not achieved.
The commitments of the SAPS with respect to its targets, as set in the Annual Performance Plan, APP, and the removal of targets such as trial ready dockets, in our view, are problematic. What the SAPS present to courts makes or breaks cases and the removal of such targets cannot be a measure of success. The Directorate for Priority Crime Investigation, DPCI, did not remove the same targets, but also failed to achieve lower targets.
The DPCI should focus its work towards the achievement of the vision and mission, with respect to its mandate of investigating level 4 and level 5 organised crimes. With regard to DPCI budget, we stand on our commitment and recommendation, as the committee, that it has
to be a fully-fledged programme with a stand-alone budget in order to address the Constitutional Court test. The ANC supports the budget.
Rev K R J MESHOE: House Chairperson, last year, the ACDP welcomed the White Paper on Safety and Security and the White Paper on policing that were adopted by Cabinet. At that time, the nation was told that the policy papers that are based on six pillars would form the focus area for policing, safety and security in future.
However, the ACDP contends that the SA Police Service, SAPS, is still to bring crime under control. The Minister has highlighted some examples to prove the point.
Corruption in the country, including in the SA Police Service is increasing, unabated. As a result, we do not understand why Crime Intelligence has received the smallest proportional increase in 2017-18 when compared to the previous financial year.
We believe intelligence-led policing should have received a far greater budget allocation to better equip the police to tackle crime, violence and corruption. The Minister correctly said, we cannot fight crime without intelligence.
The ACDP notes that the Protection and Security Services Programme has received the second largest nominal budget allocation increase, of which the bulk of the increase goes to the VIP Protection Services – a unit that mainly benefits Cabinet Ministers and their Deputies.
We believe a greater budget allocation for intelligence-led policing would be of a greater benefit to all South Africans. Why should more money be allocated to VIP Protection that will only benefit only a few privileged politicians and their families?
The ACDP is deeply concerned by the recent spate of killings, kidnappings that have been reported, particularly of women and children. Women, particularly those using public transport, live and travel in constant fear as they never know who the next human trafficker, murderer, thief or rapist is.
Some children are understandably afraid to go to the shops by themselves or to walk alone to school because they do not know if an approaching car may be carrying a kidnapper. Crime and lawlessness in our country should not become normalised. We cannot and should not allow it to continue unabated, while law-abiding citizens are forced to live in fear.
The ACDP joins the call to all men in our country to become defenders and protectors of women and children. As a responsible husband and father myself, I want to call on all South African men to ensure that women and children feel much safer in our presence. They should not have to feel suspicious, vulnerable and fearful because of what have happened currently.
Chairperson, this measly budget allocation for intelligence driven policing will not help to bring crime under control.
Detective Services also, we believe need a bigger budget and more training to increase the percentage of convictions in court. Drug related crimes are rife and convictions remain low, and one reason we believe, is the deplorable and cosy relationship between some police officers and drug traffickers.
We have been reliably informed that in the West Rand, there is a police constable who is married to a drug dealer. Besides the fact that she drives a Mercedes-Benz that was allegedly bought with drug money, she unashamedly parks it at Florida Police Station and meets with drug dealers who are operating freely in Ontdekkers Road without any fear or worry of being arrested.
The ACDP wants the Minister to look into this matter urgently to ensure that it is brought to court.
Lastly, we call on all SAPS ...
The Acting Chairperson (Ms N Gina): Thank you very much, hon Meshoe. Your time is up.
Rev K R J MESHOE: Thank you.
Ms L MABIJA): Lastly, sorry for that.
Tshivenḓa:
Vho L MABIJA: Mudzulatshidulo wa Nṋdu ya Buthano ḽa Lushakaya ya Afrika Tshipembe, vhatatisei vha Khorotshitumbe ya Buthano ḽa Lushaka, Vho Minisiṱa Vho Mbalula na Mufarisi wavho Vho Mkongi khathihi na Miraḓo ya Nnḓu ya Buthano ḽa Lushaka vho dzulaho nga hafha, ndi sa hangwi na miraḓo ya tshipholisa ine ya khou vhonala hafhaḽa, ndi sa hangwi na Khoro ya Vho McBride vha Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Ipid, Khoro ya Vho Rapea ya Civilian Secretariat na Khoro ya Vho Matakata ya Directorate for Priority Crime Investigation, DPCI, riri murumba kha u ṱambele tshanḓa.
Nga ṱhonifho vhukuma ndi a ni resha noṱhe. Vha fhumule hafho ndi khou amba. Vho fhiwa tshifhinga tsha u amba. Ndi tshi ri kha ḽilale Afrika Tshipembe kha ḽi lale, zwo tou tea. Ndi thoma nga u dodombedza zwauri dzangano ḽihulwane ḽa ANC ḽi tikedza Mugaganyagwama wa muvhalelano wa 2017-18 wa Tshipholisa tsha Afrika Tshipembe, ndi tshi ri, kale nakale ANC a yo ngo farea nga vhutshinyi vhukatini ha vhadzulapo vha Afrika Tshipembe. Dzangano ḽa mbo dodombedza u ḓiimisela u tsireledza vhadzulapo kha muano wa ANC, Ready to Govern. Ha dovha ha vha na dzulo ḽa ANC ḽa vhufuṱhanu raru ha tendelaniwa uri khoro i tea u ṋewa muhulwane wa tshipholisa vhuḓiimiseli ha u pfumbudza mashumele tsheo ya vhuḓifari na ndunzhendunzhe ya maitele a tshipholisa.
The Acting CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): Hon Mabija, can I just stop you for a while. Can I request the interpreters up there, its not working? I am not sure what is happening. It has been working, but it has just go.
Tshivenḓa:
Tenda vha mpha tshifhinga.
The Acting CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): No, it’s not you, hon member. I have just announcing so that they can hear where they are and then
they can correct that. Can you continue so that we can see if whether they have corrected it?
Tshivenḓa:
Ndi zwine ra khou ṱanziela kha tshipholisa tsha ṋamusi, murumba u khou ṱambela zwanḓa. Zwi tou vha khagala, ṋangwe naho hu vhane vha sa tende u tenda vha zwi vhona nga iṱo ḽo tsinyeaho fhedziha Vho Mudzulatshidulo, u fhelisa thaidzo ya vhutshinyi kha vhupo ha mahayani ANC yo engedza zwiṱitshi zwa tshipholisa dzisatheḽaithi dzi shumisanaho na vhadzulap na zwiimiswa zwa muvhuso zwi re na vhuḓifhinduleli kha tsireledzo ya lushaha. Zwoṱhe hezwi zwo engedza u vhonala ha tshipholisa na ndunzhendunzhe ya mashumele a tshipholisa. Rural Safety Plan yo tikedzwa hafhu na nga Rural Development Plan ngauri zwi tshimbila zwoṱhe.
Tshivenḓa:
Nga u thomiwa ha maano a trireledzo o fhelelaho, tsireledzo mahayani i khwiṋe ṋamusi u fhira mulovha na mbamulovha fhedzi u ḓo pfa vhazwala nga afha vha tshi khou sokou ṅuṅuna u ṅuṅuna vha tshiri hehe muvhuso wa ṋamusi a u shumi tshithu, ni fhumule. Vha tshi itiswa nga ḓora.
The Acting CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): Hon Mabija, may you stop a little bit. Is that a point of order, hon member?
Ms M S KHAWULA: Point of order.
IsiZulu: 17:43:50.
Sihlalo, nginephuzu lokukhalima okuphambukayo. Bengifuna ukwazi lapho ukuthi inkosazane le engaphambili, umhlonishwa, enganginika ithuba lokubuza kancane?
The Acting CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): Hon member, can you take a question?
Tshivenḓa:
Vhone, nṋe a thi vhapfi.
IsiZulu: 17:44:05
Nk M S KHAWULA: Hayibo! Anike nithuleni.
Tshivenḓa:
Vho L MABIJA: A thi vhapfi. Vha khou ntshinyela tshifhinga. Na u vhudzisiwa a thi vhudzisiwi. Ndi khou amba. [Zwiseo.] Ndi tshifhinga tshanga tsha u amba. [Zwiseo.]
IsiZulu: 17:44:16
Nk M S KHAWULA: Angimuzwa, ngimuzwa engithuka nje. [Uhleko.]
Tshivenḓa:
Kha vha dzule fhasi ndi ambe. [Zwiseo]
The Acting CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): Okay.
Tshivenḓa:
Kha vha dzule fhasi ndi ambe. [Zwiseo.]
IsiZulu: 17:44:22
Nk M S KHAWULA: Angimuzwa ngempela, ngizwa engithuka.
The Acting CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): Hon khawula!
Tshivenḓa:
A thi vha semi, thi vhapfi.
The Acting CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): Hon Mabija, can you stop a little bit. Hon Khawula, no, she cannot take your question. Can you continue then, hon Mabija..
Tshivenḓa:
Vhahulwane kha vhari nṋe ndi zwiambe, zwi takadza zwihulusa nga khuwelelo ya u sasaladza ha ...
English:
... barbaric killing of women and children from the Office of the Chief Whip of the National Parliament of the Republic of South Africa.
Tshivenḓa:
Zwihulusa musi khulu ya danga ...
English:
... the President of this country of South Africa condeming the increasing killing of women and children, emphasising his concern by even suggesting harsher measures on perpetrators because both offices understand that children are the encase that hold a mother to life, but criminals are killing them like flies.
Tshivenḓa:
Vhadzulapo vha Afrika Tshipembe kha ri tende uri mushumo wa vhafumakadzi ndi wa ndeme. Ndi ngani ndi tshi ralo?
English:
In the financial year 2016-17 Brits Police Station under the leadership of Brigadier Ellen Emmanuel won the SA Award of Excellence for the Police Station of the year. Again, with almost 40% of top management in this SA Police Service, SAPS, being women and performing very well.
Let me indicate that SAPS set a firm commitment to gender equality. As ANC, we say to the families that are victims of gender-based violence against women, young and old, some at a very tender age, we will keep you in our prayers that God give you no more challenges than you have strength to bear.
Tshivenḓa:
Ri dovha hafhu ra vha na zwe muvhuso wa ANC wa zwiita ...
English:
... in its endeavour to have civilian oversight on the police. The Civilian Secretariat was established. Its main priority is capitation in terms of personnel and funding to enable them to perform their mandate effectively and efficiently so.
Amongst their priorities in the realisation of the vision of National Development Plan, NDP, to ensure a professional police service, it is ideally positioned to positively impact on the police conduct through research, policy development, monitoring and oversight function. They are doing very well.
Tshivenḓa:
Ndi tshi pfukela kha dzi Community Police Forum, CPF, tshipholisa tsha fhano Afrika Tshipembe vhathu vha hashu, kha zwiṱitshi zwa 1 140 zwi na zwishumiswa zwa CPF naho mathomoni ho vha na u koloṅwa ha ndeme ya CPF fhedzi ṋamusi vhathu vho zwi vhona uri i a shuma CPF. Na White Paper ya Civilian Secretariat yo ndondomedza vhuṱhogwa ha CPF u vha kha ndango ya Civilian Secretariat u itela ndango na tshomedzo u khwaṱhisa tshumelo.
Dzi CPF dzi khou ita mushumo wa ndeme u mangadzaho nga maanḓa. A zwi vhudziswi, zwi tou vhonala nga nyito. U shumela lushaka kha u fhelisa vhutshinyi, vhadzulapo, munwe muthihi a u ṱusi mathuthu nahone thonga ya kule a i vhulayi ṋowa. Kha ri khwaṱhise zwanḓa ri roṱhe hune ra dzula hone nga thikhedzo kha dzi CPF. Afrika Tshipembe kha ḽi lale. Mapfumo fhasi. Kha ḽi lale. Ḽi ḓo lala fhedzi arali roṱhe
ri sa vhi na maḓora a u sokou dzula vhathu vha tshi khou gungula hu sin a zwine vha thusa ngazwo. Ndo livhuwa. [U fhululedza]
Ms A STEYN: On a point of order Chair: Sorry, I didn’t want to stop the previous speaker but can we please look at the interpreting services. It’s impossible if we don’t understand and want to participate in the debate.
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): Okay. Hon members, we have requested that they work on the interpreting but one issue that I have been advised to raise is that we have three venues that are running concurrently. So somehow we do have a challenge of having interpreters in a specific language in all the venues. However, it’s something that they are working on. We hope it will be corrected.
Thank you very much. Can I then hand over to you hon member? [Interjections.] Order, hon members.
Ms A STEYN: Hon Chair?
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): Hon member, the issue with regard to interpreting is being ... [Inaudible.]
Ms A STEYN: I do understand. That’s why I did not stop the member during the debate ... in all honesty.
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): Thank you hon members. Let us give the hon member an ear. I hand over to you hon member.
Mr M H REDELINGHUYS: Last year I spoke about the ear on women; the war on queer bodies; the war on the independence of state institutions; and the war raging in rural communities across this country. It is beyond frustrating for me to stand here again today to address these very same issues and to observe how little, if anything has changed.
I will repeat my suggestions to the new Minister. We must have specific separate data on sexual and gender-based crimes, crimes against queer persons, and farm attacks and murders. In March we finally got disaggregated sexual offences statistics following my request for it to be captured in the September mid-term budget committee report. Minister, now put it to good use as part of a budgeted national strategic plan on gender-based violence called for by civil society that aligns government and societal efforts around clear strategic priorities, timeframes and resources, and that creates inescapable accountability mechanisms.
I also said that effectively trained specialised police must ensure that these crimes are thoroughly investigated and that perpetrators are brought to justice. We should also ensure that survivors must have access to full reparation and means of protection.
Finally, the rural safety strategy does not lead to actual specialist boots on the ground and I reiterated our call for adequately trained, equipped and capacitated specialised rural reaction units. I hope that the new Minister will embrace the bona fide proposals of the opposition as eagerly as he fires away on Twitter.
However, as getting the sexual offences statistics showed, Parliament can get things done without, and often in spite of, the whims and wishes of the executive. Thus in the war between the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Ipid, and the Hawks saga, I urge the committee to initiate proceedings immediately, amending both Acts to bring them in line with the Constitution. We have watched with disgust the ongoing Hawks saga and the public spat between the Ipid and the SAPS. In this I advise the acting national commissioner to let the investigation run its course and refrain from attacking Ipid’s very existence, lest someone seek a declaratory order for him violating the Constitution. Findings and
alleged procedural irregularities can be taken on judicial review if he is unhappy.
Minister, I am pleased that you have taken a hard-line approach on Berning Ntlemeza, but it is not enough. The Constitutional Court set very clear deadlines for Parliament, not the executive, to remedy the legislative defects. This committee should fix the legislation as speedily as the Justice Committee in the previous Parliament fixed the Sexual Offences Act following a High Court judgement.
In the war on women we are unfortunately, in what Lisa Vetten describes as, ―cycles of outrage followed by amnesia and inaction.‖ I can reiterate the horrifying statistics in this national crisis. One in five women has experienced violence at the hands of their partners; 40% of men have admitted to assaulting their partners daily; and three women are killed by their partners every day. There are four and a half rape cases reported in this country on average every hour, and by the time we are done with this debate 10 women would have been raped. I hope the Minister does not emulate his role model Steve Tshwete when he proudly told the country, ―We’ve been standing here for 26 seconds and nobody has been raped.‖
Yet, these statistics mask the harsh daily reality of South African women. Sadly, after the photo ops with a wad of cash or a brick of Rama, Karabo Mokoena and the countless other names become mere statistics debated in hearings like this; footnotes to the real horror story of South African women.
Police must heed the pleas of thousands of women when they say that this bridge, that park or this corner is not safe. Minister, an officer turning away a woman reporting a domestic violence case with a rubbish excuse should be disciplined and fired on the spot. Make an example of them.
Ending the war on women goes beyond just public and private-sector programmes. We must change deep-seated, often dearly held patriarchal and sexist attitudes. Each one of us, men specifically, must take ownership of and tackle our own attitudes that enable or encourage toxic, deadly masculinity. To my fellow men, we are trash. We don’t have to rape a woman or abuse or catcall a woman to be trash. If we have laughed at or even sheepishly smiled at a sexist joke without calling such rubbish out, we have enabled, if not encouraged, the very men we warn our daughters and our sisters against.
A mini-skirt is not asking for it. Buying a woman a drink doesn’t entitle you to sex. A woman with a condom in her purse isn’t necessarily a sex worker. Minister, on this subject I urge you to visit the Pretoria West Police Station, where I receive, on a nearly daily basis, horrifying reports of police conduct in relation to sex workers.
I note with cautious optimism the Deputy President’s recent commitment that the long-outstanding Law Reform Commission report on sex work will finally be published for public comment and engagement. It is high time that we as a nation and that this Parliament discusses this in open hearings.
Finally, I urge the new Minister and his Deputy to, as we do in the committee, focus on the burning issues in this portfolio and not burning bridges or buildings for that matter. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr J J MAAKE: Thank you hon Chairperson. I think I must say that if the Deputy Minister of Justice and Correctional Services is hijacked, we seem to have a serious problem, and as the Minister said, the holiday for criminals is over.
In my understanding, security and stability, like peace, is indivisible. There can never be stability for one section of our community if there is none for the other. The objective of the portfolio committee and therefore of Parliament is to engage in oversight over the SAPS, Ipid, the Civilian Secretariat for Police and the Private Security Industry Regulatory Authority, Psira.
The portfolio committee is responsible for legislation pertaining to the departments and entity, and is responsible for legislation and budgeting pertaining to these departments. The committee is responsible for holding the executive, the departments and entity to account through examining its budgets, annual performance plan, APP, strategic plans and annual reports, and for oversights into the implementation of legislation.
The committee is committed to ensuring the proper and effective functioning and compliance with the legislative mandate and policy requirements.
The Medium-Term Strategic Framework states that the objective is to ensure that all people are and feel safe through the reduction of contact crime. The APP of the SAPS for 2017-18 states that the plan
of the SAPS is to reduce the levels of serious crimes, including contact crime, by 3,14%
My comrades before me have elaborated on many of the issues that this committee deals with – those who gave recommendations on what needs to be done. I will therefore just give an overview and specifically focus on a few areas.
Let’s take hon Mbhele in the portfolio committee. Even when he agreed ... we agreed unanimously on whatever the committee decided on, he will always say the DA reserves the right to vote in the House. [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: Yes, because that’s what we do in this place.
Mr J J MAAKE: What does that tell you? [Interjections.] The shadow Minister of Police does not have any power to take decisions that he knows best in the portfolio committee. The decision must be taken for him, maybe by some ... [Interjections.] ... white caucus. The DA represents ...
Ms A STEYN: On a point of order Chair.
Mr J J MAAKE: The DA represents big capital.
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): Hon Maake? Hon Maake? Can you hold ... Can you sit down a little bit hon Maake?
Mr J J MAAKE: It represents big commercial farming.
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): Hon Maake? Yes hon member?
Ms A STEYN: Chairperson, I just want to find out if the member now said that he’s being directed by his white compatriots. If I heard that I want him to ...
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): Hon member, what point are you rising on? Do you want to ask a question?
Ms A STEYN: On the point of him saying that our member is being directed. It’s racially classifying us as a portfolio and telling our member that he cannot think for himself because he is listening to white people in his caucus.
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): Was he referring to hon Mbhele?
Ms A STEYN: Yes.
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): Okay hon member, we have to check on that and we will come back and rule on it. May you continue hon member?
Mr J J MAAKE: The DA represents big capital and big commercial farming. It represents the arrogance of capitalism. It represents moribund theories and ideologies that defied the history of human development. [Interjections.]
If young African men and women, or should I say boys and girls, in their naive and very weird way of thinking can imagine that by being on top of the DA hierarchy they are in power, then they need to be examined — examined not in a hospital but ... must try ... [Inaudible.] ... x-ray. [Laughter.]
In South Africa ... If I was to repeat, the DA represents big business multinationals and if anyone thinks that by fronting for these capitalists they have power, I don’t know. It might be unparliamentary but if it was not I would say bayaphambana [they are going crazy.]
Sepedi:
Ba nyaka go išwa dingakeng. Ka SeAfrikanse re re ...
Afrikaans:
... hulle wil ’n toordokter ...
English:
... to actually look into their mental health. As the ANC we should be taking some of these ... [Interjections.] ... unreliable and spineless Africans within the DA to court.
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): Hon Maake, can you take your seat please? Hon member, what are you rising on?
Ms S P KOPANE: Chair, I was suggesting that we need to have a breathalyser here. It’s like we are no longer alone here. [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): Hon member, on several times the issue of breathalysers has been ruled on in this House. You know it is unparliamentary to do that. So let us refrain from such. You may continue hon Maake.
Mr J J MAAKE: As the ANC we should be taking some of these unreliable and spineless Africans within the DA to court and charge them with continually deceiving our masses. Watch this space; they might be sentenced to life imprisonment. And verily, verily, I tell you ...
Ms A STEYN: On a point of order Chair.
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): A point of order has been called hon Maake. A point of order has been called. Can you take your seat? Yes hon member?
Ms A STEYN: Chairperson, I also want to refer to the fact that the hon member, who is not making a coherent speech at the moment ... [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): Hon member, it’s not for you to say that.
Ms A STEYN: ... referred to spineless blacks in the DA. He referred to spineless blacks in the DA. I want that referred please. [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina) Hon member, can we allow the member to debate. That is a point of debate. [Interjections.] That is a point of debate. There is no member that he has referred to, so you cannot say that ... [Inaudible.]
Ms A STEYN: No Chairperson, he cannot. I want it referred please.
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): Come again?
Ms A STEYN: I want what the hon member said — that there are spineless blacks in the DA who cannot stand up for themselves — to be referred.
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): He did not refer to any specific person or member in that statement. You may continue hon Maake.
Mr J J MAAKE: And verily, verily I tell you ...
Sepedi:
... ba ka lahlelwa leswiswing la kgotlompo, mo go nago le dillo le ditsikitlano tša meeno ...
English:
... never ever to be seen in any democratic setup. They are actually a disgrace to the struggling masses of our country. [Interjections.] We are the ANC, the spear and the shield of the nation.
Even though there are a few hiccups in the department from time to time, the objective of the department, which is serving and protecting our communities, is being fulfilled to the maximum given the budgetary constraints.
We have noted that the establishment of the illegal firearms unit and the narcotics unit is a necessary process and must be prioritised, yet it was not budgeted for and is not even an indicator in the APP. Intelligence capacity at station level and cluster level needs to be re-evaluated and strengthened. There was the Khayelitsha Commission here in the Western Cape.
An HON MEMBER: By the premier.
Mr J J MAAKE: Up to now we haven’t heard anything about the implementation of this commission. [Interjections.] Gangsterism is rife on the Cape Flats here in the Western Cape. We are still to be told about the Western Cape’s strategy to deal with this issue. The
only thing that we heard a long time ago ... [Interjections.] ... it was sent in the ... [Inaudible.]
Ms S P KOPANE: On a point of order Chair.
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): Hon members, let us not drown the speaker please. Let us not drown the speaker. Take your seat hon member.
Ms S P KOPANE: Point of order Chair.
Mr J J MAAKE: ... [Inaudible.] ... that the provincial government is not doing its work.
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): Hon Maake, can you take your seat. There’s a point of order. What point are you rising on hon member?
Ms S P KOPANE: Chair, the hon member there is misleading this House. In the Western Cape we are not responsible for policing. It’s a national competency. I wonder why he is in this department if he doesn’t know.
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): Hon member, that is not a point of order, please. May you continue hon Maake? Can you take your seat hon member?
Mr J J MAAKE: Or must we say that they don’t care because it’s not happening within their comfort zones? Or must we say that the task of the opposition is to always celebrate when things go wrong because they can then have something to blame the ruling party for? This little poem by Stephen Crane explains the opposition party exactly as they are and what they are:
In the desert
I saw a creature, naked, bestial, Who, squatting upon the ground, Held his heart in his hands,
And ate of it.
I said, ―Is it good, friend?‖
―It is bitter — bitter,‖ he answered,
―But I like it Because it is bitter,
And because it is my heart.‖
Eating your own heart, bitter as it is, only to make the ruling party look bad. Is that not stupid va ka hina? [our people] The ANC definitely supports the Budget Vote.
The CHAIRPERSON (Ms N Gina): Thank you very much hon Maake. Hon members, the Minister has saved seven minutes from his initial speech, so now it will be 12 minutes. Over to you Minister.
The MINISTER OF POLICE: Hon Chairperson, I am not going to respond to irritation. I am first going to start with the question of the FFP. Hon member, when we talk about disarming South Africa, we are talking about state-owned and stolen recovery of firearms. That is what we are talking about. It is not like we are talking about something that we do not know. Quite recently, about 800 firearms were stolen from the base of the SA Police Service. They were all sold in the areas of Cape Town where you have manifestations of gangsterism. All of those who have done that are behind bars.
We have recovered over 2 000 of those guns at the present moment and some of them are still in our communities. This week or last an arms cache was discovered also in the areas of the Cape. And I am saying to you that, we are coming to this Budget Vote, not with an illusion
that, we say to our people that everything is normal and up and running. We are not saying that.
For South Africans, even though our crime statistics point that in certain areas, crime is going down, we harbour no illusion about the fact that a lot still needs to be done. We are not coming to our people here in this debate, with a high rhetoric that we have won the war against crime, but we are saying to our people and to all of you, with all hands on deck, we are going to consolidate where we need to consolidate and we will pass the Acts that will enhance our work to ensure that we fight crime in the Republic. That is what we are saying. So, tell no lies; claim no easy victories. That is what we are all about. [Applause.]
I am saying to you that we inherited a battered department. Be careful about a battered person. For every time you batter and you tell a person that is useless and despite the victories that we register including the police, you are saying that there is no value in what they do.
The work that the police do, including locking up those dangerous criminals, the police men and women who operate in the barley of the dangerous criminals, in the underworld to protect this nation and
even at night, to protect this country against many forms that will distract and threaten national security, we cannot say to those police officers that you are useless. We say to them, as much as we have challenges of those who underperform, however we equally salute your efforts. We understand that the majority of our police officers are on cause. [Applause.]
Coming to this Budget Vote, why are we talking about crime intelligence-led fighting strategy, we are concerned that some of the cases we resolve, it is cases that could have been prevented, if our crime intelligence was up to scratch. We need to give that up and if I can give you an example, we knew that those people that were going to rob Shoprite in Nyanga and held people hostage and some of them could not stand off with the police, but let me tell you, we managed to save 11 lives who were kept hostage by armed gangsters and criminals. We could have done better, because we knew that there was going to be money that is going to come to Shoprite which was the money for pensioners. We could have done better and protect that money.
So, we are not coming here to say all is hunky-dory. We are on top of our game. Mr Meshoe, I agree with you. We are concerned about criminals who are recycled in our communities. A person gets
arrested and goes up and down between the police station and the location well known. Worse of a police officer. I can tell you that what you have reported here and many other cases will be followed up by our capable police force. We cannot harbour rotten potatoes wherever they come from in our ranks and that is what is important. I agree with you Mr Meshoe that the recycling of criminals must come to an end.
We know where criminals come from, we know who they are and we know what they do in our communities, but they keep on being recycled in the system and in our police stations and that is actually what is happening. Our police stations are going to be the responsive branches to the demands of our people. The question of gender-based violence and domestic violence, we must respond to that. However, we must equally understand the abuse of women; find its resonance within the broader social fibber of society that is decaying.
We grew up in communities and families where women and our sisters were battered and abused. It is not yesterday. We must get rid of that. Some of us speak here like K-CI and Jojo and everything else, yet at the same time we are battering women in our own backyards and in our own houses. [Laughter.] We are being interdicted by the courts. Abuse of women whether you are a politician or not, you
should be taken to task. And no woman must be taken or turned away from a police station.
I agree with you hon member Geldenhuis or Marius that our specialised units must respond to that. That is why together with General Phahlane and the police have agreed that if there is mobilisation in the society, join that mobilisation. However, equally we must consolidate our police stations to respond to women abuse. That is not going to happen next week. In two weeks we are on the ground. All our police stations, commandant of clusters and police stations, no woman must be turned away from a police station, never! [Applause.] That must be a holiday and be something of the past. That is not going to happen and we are very clear that we must respond to organised crime. The Hawks must perform their duty. Our Crime Intelligence must perform their duty. We are going to ensure that all of that does happen.
I am saying to you ladies and gentlemen and hon members, we are going to work together to ensure that we are able to push back crime n this country. It is not going to happen on a single day. We need to put our house in order. However, we are faced with litigation.
Where we want to move with speed we are unable. We do not have issues between ourselves and the people we have employed.
I am the Minister of Police, the buck stops with me. If you take me on, on my decisions I will react, as much as I believe in the rule of law. No matter who you are. I am the Minister of Police, we are not two we have one according to the Constitution. [Applause.] So, if ever I act on the basis of the rule of law, in protection of the services and our decisions, I am going to do that. Without any fear or favour or thinking twice that if I do this, this will happen I have no altercations with the police. I cannot have an altercation with a police man. A police man and a police officer’s duties are to implement the law and we must have the rule of law in this country.
Let me tell you, when I came in the police, I met many men and women of honour who have been very much dedicated in their duties. I look in their eyes and every time I go on the ground I shovel and work with them and see people of integrity. [Applause.] However, criminals are few. I can tell you those who are criminals and those who are perpetuating instability within the SA Police Service are not in the majority. However, we must put them on our radar and finish them off. They must understand that that we are coming for them and we are not going to be lenient to criminals.
When we sat shoot-to-kill, we do not say, shoot innocent people in defence of the innocent and yourselves. The law permits you to do
that. When we meet armed gangsters and we meet armed criminals, who come from this country and even beyond the borders, our police must be armed in order to respond adequately. Where there are deficiencies at the operational level with regard to shooting capacity and the training, we are working on that in order to improve our skill and to skill our police.
These police officers have implemented a visible programme that targets all the police stations that are nonfunctional. We were here in the Western Cape and me and my Deputy Minister and the police tomorrow we are going to Nyanga. I am not going there for Hollywood or dancing or twitter. [Interjections.] I tweet about crime. Look at my strategy. Do not talk about tweet. I tweet about crime and I tweet about what I like and nobody will stop me about it. [Applause.] However, tomorrow I am in Nyanga. I am going to respond on all those things that were raised with President Zuma.
I was in Soshanguve, we responded to that, including arresting those criminals, even those who dumped our Deputy Minister, Thabang Makwetla in the doldrums of Britz, we will find them. Now, I am saying tomorrow, we are there.
We are going back to Elsis River. In Elsis River are extending a satellite police station. However, equally we are going back to Nyanga. We will never allow R100 million to be spend on Muizenberg. We will want that money to be spend else where to extend the satellite police stations to fight crime. [Applause.]
However, that on its own is not enough. Skop and donder, boots on the ground is not a sufficient approach. We must be smart, and that is why e-policing is key in our agenda and strategic. That is what we are going to do, going forward. We need all of you, all hands on deck. No retreat. Thank you, very much. [Applause.]
Ms M S KHAWULA: Hon Chairperson, on a point of order.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, the Minister’s time has expired. What is the point of order, hon member?
IsiZulu:
Nk M S KHAWULA: Hhayi bengisho umyalezo. Ngiyabonga, besizocela uNgqongqoshe ngoba ngiyambona ukhuthele futhi uyathembisa. Hhawu, siyafa ubugebengu KwaMashu! Akahambe lapha aye ehostela KwaMashu simbone phakathi. Aqoqe zonke leza zibhamu. [Uhleko.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member that is not a point of order.
Debate concluded.
The mini-plenary session rose at 18:18.
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