Hansard: NA: Unrevised Hansard
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 07 Mar 2017
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
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PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
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The House met at 14:02.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to
observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
REVIVAL OF LAPSED ITEMS
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Speaker, I hereby
move the draft resolution printed on the Order Paper in
the name of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party: That
the following items that were on the Order Paper and
which, in terms of Rule 351, had lapsed at the end of the
last sitting day of the 2016 annual session, be revived
for consideration by the National Assembly:
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(1)
Consideration of Report of Standing Committee on Appropriations on 16th Association of Public Accounts Committees, APAC, Conference 2016: ―Consolidating 22 Years‘ Gains of Oversight: Accelerating Public Account-Ability‖,Bloemfontein, Free State, 18-22 September 2016;
(2)
Consideration of Interim Report of Portfolio
Committee on Labour on Labour Laws Amendment
Bill, in terms of National Assembly Rule 286
(4)(c);
(3)
Consideration of Report of Standing Committee
on Appropriations on fourth quarter expenditure
patterns for 2015-16 financial year and first
quarter expenditure patterns for 2016-17
financial year;
(4)
Consideration of request for permission in
terms of Rule 286(4)(c) to inquire into
amending other provisions of the Magistrates‘
Courts Act, Act 32 of 1944, in light of the
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Interim Report of the Portfolio Committee on
Justice and Correctional Services on the Courts
of Law Amendment Bill;
(5)
Consideration of Report of Standing Committee
on Auditor-General on Integrated Annual Report
of the Auditor-General for financial year 201617;
(6)
Consideration of Report of Standing Committee
on Auditor-General on Auditor-General South
Africa 2017-2020 Strategic Plan and Budget;
(7)
Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee
on Mineral Resources on Oversight visit to Free
State Province;
(8)
Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee
on Small Business Development on Oversight
visit to KwaZulu-Natal Province during 14 to
15 September 2016;
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(9)
Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee
on Telecommunications and Postal Services on
Cost to Communicate;
(10) Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee
on Telecommunications and Postal Services on
Deliberations on the Strategic Plan of National
Electronic Media Institute of South Africa;
(11) Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee
on Water and Sanitation on Workshop held on 14
to 16 September;
(12) Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee
on Water and Sanitation on Fourth Quarterly
Progress Report for Department of Water and
Sanitation for 2015-16 financial year;
(13) Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee
on Water and Sanitation on Third Quarterly
Progress Report for Department of Water and
Sanitation for 2015-16 financial year;
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(14) Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee
on Water and Sanitation on Oversight visit to
North West Province;
(15) Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee
on Telecommunications and Postal Services on
Site visit to Telkom Submarine Cable;
(16) Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee
on Labour on Oversight visit to Northern Cape;
(17) Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee
on Labour on First Quarterly Report on
Performance of Department of Labour;
(18) Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee
on Police on 2016-17 Budget, Annual Performance
Plan and Strategic Plan of Private Security
Industry Regulatory Authority;
(19) Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee
on Home Affairs on Department of Home Affairs
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Fourth Quarter 2015/16 and First Quarter 201617 Expenditure and Performance;
(20) Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee
on Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries on
Oversight visit to Limpopo Cape Province;
(21) Consideration of Report of Joint Standing
Committee on Financial Management of Parliament
on Parliament of the Republic of South Africa‘s
2015-16 Annual Report;
(22) Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee
on Defence and Military Veterans on Oversight
visit to selected military bases and Council of
Scientific and Industrial Research in Gauteng;
(23) Consideration of Report of Portfolio Committee
on Trade and Industry on Colloquium on local
public procurement and its linkages to
industrialisation drive;
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(24) Consideration of Report of Standing Committee
on Finance on Money Bills Amendment Procedure
and Related Matters Act, Act 9 of 2009;
(25) Consideration of Request for Approval by
Parliament of Draft Revised Rules of Procedure
2015, in terms of section 7(5) of the Promotion
of Administrative Justice Act, 2000 and as per
the Report of the Portfolio Committee on
Justice and Correctional Services;
(26) Consideration of Request for Approval by
Parliament of Draft Revised Rules of Procedure
for Application to Court in terms of section
79(5) of the Promotion of Access to Information
Act, 2000 and as per the Report of the
Portfolio Committee on Justice and Correctional
Services;
(27) Consideration of Report of the Portfolio
Committee on Environmental Affairs on Report to
Parliament on International Environment
Instruments for 2015-2016; and
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(28) Consideration of Report of the Portfolio
Committee on Labour on Oversight visit to
Mpumalanga farms.
Motion agreed to.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF AD HOC COMMITTEE TO INQUIRE,
IN TERMS OF SECTION 15A(1)(B) OF THE BROADCASTING ACT,
ACT 4 OF 1999, INTO THE ABILITY OF THE SOUTH AFRICAN
BROADCASTING CORPORATION, SABC, BOARD TO DISCHARGE ITS
DUTIES AS PRESCRIBED IN THE ACT
Mr V G SMITH: Hon Speaker, hon members, comrades, allow
us to take this opportunity to thank the general public
for the interest shown in the work of this ad hoc
committee. We also thank those witnesses who
participated, as well as the committee staff for their
professional support. Lastly, let me thank all the
members of the ad hoc committee for their team work and
determination. We always knew that this task was going to
feel like a marathon. We also always knew that the work
would test our physical and emotional endurance to the
very limit. It is our humble view that the ad hoc
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committee, through its work, contributed in a small way
toward further restoring the dignity of and respect for
this august House.
Hon members, the primary mandate given to the ad hoc
committee was to ascertain the fitness or otherwise of
the SABC board. The starting point had to be whether the
SABC board members had exercised their fiduciary duties
as expected by the various pieces of the relevant
legislation. These duties include, amongst others, that
the board protects the financial and human resource
assets of the organisation.
So, one cannot divorce the responsibility of the board to
carry out effective oversight over the SABC
administration – as is their fiduciary duty – from what
prevails currently in terms of corporate governance. In
the absence of getting to the bottom of the root causes
of the problems at the SABC, the interim board and the
permanent board would be set up for failure from the very
outset.
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Hon members, to argue that the inquiry should have ceased
with its work once the then chairperson had resigned
would have been an exercise in futility, in so far as
making sure that the SABC of tomorrow is in a better
place than the SABC of today. The SABC board was
dysfunctional and inquorate at the time the ad hoc
committee commenced with its work.
In reporting back to this House on our primary task, we
recommend that the National Assembly formally dissolve
the SABC board, including the membership of the three
executive board members.
Speaker, section 55(2)(a) of the Constitution is very
clear in so far as making it obligatory for the National
Assembly to provide for mechanisms to ensure that all
executive organs of state in the national sphere of
government are accountable to it. Furthermore, section 56
states that the National Assembly may summon any person
to appear before it to give evidence on oath or
affirmation as well as to produce documents.
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Hon members, from the very beginning of the work of the
ad hoc committee, the then chairperson of the SABC board,
the SABC executive directors and management displayed
behaviour in total disregard to these sections of the
Constitution. Members of this House were told that they
are not fit to exercise oversight over the SABC because
members were biased or had already arrived at a predetermined outcome. The then SABC chairperson went as far
as taking the National Assembly to court in an attempt to
frustrate or delay this House from exercising its
constitutional obligation.
In an unprecedented act of defiance of the Constitution
and the rules of the National Assembly, the then
chairperson, accompanied by executive management of the
SABC, walked out of a parliamentary committee session and
went out to tell South Africans and the world that the
work of the ad hoc committee and, by extension, the work
of the National Assembly, was tantamount to a kangaroo
court.
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Hon members, it is our view that the National Assembly or
indeed Parliament can never again allow this level of
undermining to ever re-occur.
At its 53rd conference, the ANC resolved that a stable
corporate governance mechanism is required to provide
long-term stability. This includes strengthening the
SABC‘s accountability to Parliament, the shareholders and
the public in acknowledgment of the fact that public
ownership of the SABC is central to its existence and
sustainability.
In the four years since this resolution was adopted, we
have seen at least three SABC boards and at least four
group chief executive officers. During this period, the
SABC has been plagued by many challenges, including
divisions at board level. Human resource management and
compliance with policy is almost nonexistent, as can be
seen by the high number of Commission for Conciliation,
Mediation and Arbitration, CCMA, and Labour Court
challenges that the SABC has faced and lost at a very
high cost.
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Hon members, this leadership instability has a direct
bearing on the demise of good corporate governance within
the institution, as can be seen in the Auditor General‘s
report. Irregular expenditure amounting to R5,1 billion
and fruitless and wasteful expenditure of R92,8 million
indicates the extent of the problem.
As we stand here today, the SABC has an acting group
chief executive officer, an acting chief financial
officer and an acting chief operating officer. This state
of affairs cannot be allowed to continue for much longer.
The SABC must have a credible accounting authority which
is in line with the Public Broadcasting Act, the Public
Finance Management Act and the Companies Act. The ad hoc
committee recommends that the process of appointing an
interim board and eventually a permanent board be
finalised expeditiously.
Hon members, section 16 of the Constitution – which is
part of the Bill of Rights – guarantees freedom of
expression, which includes freedom of the press and other
media, as well as freedom to receive or impart
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information or ideas. The services expected from the SABC
are thus at the very centre of our constitutional
democracy and the public broadcaster is the supreme
vehicle through which the very important provisions as
enshrined in the Bill of Rights must become a reality
enjoyed and experienced by all South Africans.
Hon members, significant entry barriers remain in place
in the pay commercial broadcasting sector. Efforts to
regulate this sector so as to enforce effective
competition have not produced the desired results. It is
recommended by the ad hoc committee that any SABC
contract that seeks to do business with its competitors
must be reviewed.
The SABC has a footprint that covers every corner of the
country and is accessible to South Africans from every
walk of life, the majority of whom are the working class
and the lower income groups, including pensioners and the
aged, both black and white.
With this as a background, we raise serious concerns
around the fact that the 24 hour news channel and the
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Encore channel are only available on pay TV. This has the
effect of excluding many South Africans on the basis of
affordability.
The SABC is a national asset and also a national keypoint
and must therefore at all times be managed by competent
and appropriately skilled men and women who are
adequately vetted, in order to mitigate obvious state
security concerns. Those given the task and
responsibility of managing this very important asset on
behalf of South Africans must be beyond reproach and must
be held to the highest level of accountability.
Finally, hon members, this enquiry took place with
maximum transparency. It took place with absolute
fairness and consistency. Of course, hon members, like in
all aspects of life, there will be those who support the
product of this ad hoc committee and likewise, there will
be those who criticise or reject the report.
Notwithstanding the criticism, we take solace from the
words uttered from this very podium on 26 March 1999,
when Madiba, during his farewell speech to Parliament,
said:
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I would like to take this opportunity to pay tribute
to all the parties represented in this Parliament
for their contribution to the progress we have made.
Though we have our differences, often important and
sometimes profound, we have as a collective
demonstrated our overriding commitment to the new
order that we have together established. You have
ensured that this Parliament is no rubber stamp in
the hands of government and given birth to a new
democratic political culture.
The ad hoc committee remained true to the sentiments
echoed by President Mandela. And with that, on behalf of
the ad hoc committee, we table this report for your
consideration and adoption.
Mr M WATERS: Hon Madam Speaker, at the outset, let me
thank the Chair of the ad hoc committee, hon Smith, for
the manner in which he chaired the committee. Thank you,
hon Vincent. [Applause.] Millions of South Africans tuned
in to see how Parliament was going to save the SA
Broadcasting Corporation, SABC, and many were surprised
at how Members of Parliament, MPs, from across the
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political spectrum held the Minister and board members to
account. In the main, political differences were put
aside for the good of the people. I want to thank all my
colleagues on the committee for that.
The 82-page report has all the ingredients of a
Shakespeare tragedy from treachery, corruption, deceit,
intimidation, abuse of power, trickery and sheer greed,
with the modern twist of communications being intercepted
by the State Security Agency. The main characters in this
tragedy are the Minister of Communications, hon Faith
Muthambi, and Mr Hlaudi Motsoeneng, likened to Lady
Macbeth and Lord Macbeth, with the journalists and staff
being the victims.
Both the Minister and Mr Hlaudi believed that the SABC
was their own fiefdom to do as they pleased to further a
broader political agenda. The reign of terror was aided
and abetted by some but not all the members of the board,
the company secretary and by the majority of the MPs
serving on the Communications Portfolio Committee. I am
proud to state that the DA MPs did everything in their
power to expose the Minister‘s blatant abuse of power.
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In addition, she committed perjury by giving the
committee false evidence while under oath. This, Madam
Speaker, is of such a serious nature that criminal
charges must be brought against the Minister.
But let‘s start at the beginning of the Minister‘s term
of office, back in 2014, where on 26 September the
Minister signed a Memorandum of Incorporation, MOI, for
the SABC. This MOI, as hon Davis pointed out on 8
February in a letter to the then board Chairperson,
Professor Maguvhe, would destroy the independence of the
public broadcaster and would waive the requirement for
the board to advertise and shortlist candidates who apply
for the chief executive officer, CEO, position and the
chief operations officer, COO, position. Paragraph 9.1.2
states that, and I am quoting:
During her evidence the Minister insisted that
amendments to the MOI were effected in accordance
with both the Broadcasting Act and the Companies
Act. She stated that although legislation did not
require her to do so, the Minister had consulted the
board on the amendments as a courtesy before they
were submitted to the Companies and Intellectual
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Property Commission, CIPC. She had also briefed the
portfolio committee on the MOI in June 2015.
According to the Minister, neither the board, nor
the portfolio committee had raised any reservations
about the impact of the amendments or the manner in
which they were processed.
Let us unpack the paragraph. No MOI. I repeat, no MOI was
ever submitted to CIPC. The ad hoc committee asked the
CIPC for proof of any submission by the Minister which
they failed to provide because it is simple, there was
not any. It is a pity because the Minister is not even
here today.
With regards to the Minister‘s statement that neither the
board nor the portfolio committee had raised any
reservations about the impact of the amended MOI, well
the facts speak themselves, Minister. The minutes of the
board meeting clearly show that some board members did
have reservations with regards to the MOI. As far as
portfolio committee minutes or concerns, the DA‘s hon
Davis as well as the Cope MPs and the EFF MPs all raised
reservations. So, why the lies, Minister? Well, I can
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answer that for you. You knew that the amendments to the
MOI, probably assisted by Mr Motsoeneng, were a
transgression of the Broadcasting Act.
In fact, in the report we stated that the MOI signed in
October 2014, as well as the proposed amendments to the
Broadcasting Act, demonstrate efforts to concentrate
power in the Ministry by curtailing and removing the
powers of both the board as the accounting authority, and
Parliament‘s role in the appointment and removal of
nonexecutive board members. It also strips the board of
its role in the appointment of the executives. What the
Minister was trying to do was to remove Parliament out of
the question and silence us and do what she pleases with
the board of the SABC.
In addition, paragraph 23.2.2 states that the committee
also notes from board minutes of a meeting that took
place on 7 July 2014, that the Minister may have directly
or indirectly, pressurised the board to appoint Mr
Motsoeneng in the COO position. Was it coincidental that
the Minister just happened to be lurking in the passages
of the SABC at 23:00 at night, on the very night that the
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board decided to appoint Mr Motsoeneng as the COO? I
think not. She was there to put pressure on the board to
do her bedding.
Despite the Public Protector having found adverse
findings against Mr Motsoeneng, the Minister so found it
fit not to advertise the position of the COO and to
appoint him into that position without having the
necessary qualifications. Shame on you, Minister!
The ad hoc committee found that the Minister displayed
incompetence in carrying out her responsibilities. In
addition, the Minister interfered in some of the board‘s
decision-making processes.
The report recommends that, given the Minister‘s
violations, Parliament must refer these violations of the
Constitution, Privileges Act, the Executive Code of
Ethics and the Broadcasting Act to the Ethics Committee
and the Presidency for processing. In fact, we call on
the President to reconsider her position in the Cabinet.
[Applause.]
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As the Executive Members Ethics Act dictates that Public
Protector investigates any violations we, the DA, will
write to the Public Protector for such an investigation.
In conclusion, the late great George Michael said: We got
to have faith. Unfortunately, the DA no longer has faith
in Minister Muthambi and she must be fired. I thank you
very much. The DA supports the report. [Applause.]
Mr F MOKOENA: Hon Speaker, let me greet the leadership of
the EFF, in particular, the treasury general, TG, and the
deputy secretary general, DSG. Look, Speaker, the
problems of the SABC are symptomatic of a fascist and
apartheid state that believes that the state must
colonised and control national communications for
purposes of sowing propaganda and for consolidating
power. It is an ideology that has its roots in Hitler‘s
Third Reich with his Minister Joseph Goebbels – that is
where it comes from.
What happens is that the SABC is being used to control
national journalists and practices to control programming
and to control culture and entertainment for purposes of
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narrow propaganda. We saw what happened at the Metro FM
Awards with the corrupt Mabala Noise. Fundamentally, at
the heart of problems of the SABC is that it is being
used to undermine democracy and to fight internal battles
of the SABC. This is what we heard in the evidence given
to the ad hoc committee. We heard that it was used to
stifle election campaign for opposition parties, in
particular the EFF. We heard that it was used to elevate
individuals within the ANC in order to fight for the soul
of the ANC. We heard that it was used as a tool of a
Marks ladder scheme of handing over state-owned entities
to the corrupt family of the Guptas.
However, the report fails to place the SABC saga at the
heart of the state capture. The EFF made the point that
the report must make the point that the SABC was at the
heart of state capture. However, the report does make
some key interventions. First, it identifies governance
failures of the SABC including the fiasco caused by the
incompetent Minister Muthambi who failed to steer the
entity in the interest of South African public.
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It recommends that criminal prosecutions of corrupt
individuals in the entity and most importantly the
recommendations to the President to fire the incompetent
Minister who is not here today. We sincerely hope that
the President will set aside his factional and selfenrichment interest and do the right thing for once in
his life. The EFF supports the report in the interest ...
[Interjections.]
Mr B A RADEBE: On the point of order, Speaker.
THE SPEAKER: What is your point of order? Please take
your seat, hon Mokoena.
Mr B A RADEBE: According to Rule 85 when the member is
going to make allegations to the President or the member
of this House must make it through the substantive
motion. Therefore, he cannot say that the President is
corrupt or is doing this thing without putting it on the
table. Thank you.
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The SPEAKER: That point of order is sustained. Hon
Mokoena, of course, you know this that if you are going
to make ... [Interjections.]
Mr M Q NDLOZI: Speaker!
The SPEAKER: I am just on the floor, hon Ndlozi. I am
speaking, hon Ndlozi.
Mr M Q NDLOZI: Speaker, consider our intervention before
you rule because hon Mokoena did not say such things.
The SPEAKER: Hon Ndlozi, take your seat. I am on the
floor. Hon Mokoena, I am addressing you. Would you like
to withdraw what you said or submit what allegations you
are making through a substantive motion?
Mr F MOKOENA: Hon Chair, a substantive motion was tabled
to this House.
The SPEAKER: No, I am talking about now. I am talking
about right now in terms of what you said right now.
Could you please withdraw?
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Mr F MOKOENA: Is the Chair saying that I must submit a
substantive motion now? What are you saying?
The SPEAKER: No, I am not saying you must submit a
substantive motion now. I am saying that withdraw what
you said. If you do not want to withdraw, then the
alternative you have is to then come back with a
substantive motion.
Mr F MOKOENA: But, Speaker please ... [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: No, I do not want to interact with you. I do
not want us to have a dialogue.
Mr F MOKOENA: Okay, that is fine I withdraw.
The SPEAKER: Okay, proceed.
Mr F MOKOENA: It recommends that criminal prosecutions of
corrupt individuals in the entity, most importantly, it
recommends that the President must fire Minister Muthambi
who is incompetent. The EFF supports the report in the
interest of rebuilding the SABC and its governance. We
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support the report in the interest of rebuilding and
restoring our constitutional democracy. I thank you very
much. [Applause.]
Mr N SINGH: Speaker, the SABC is today a cautionary tale,
replete with all the high drama and trappings that could
easily make up a complex thriller in one of the many
fictional movies on its channels. It is a tale of
unchecked greed, power, corruption, mismanagement,
incapacity, incompetence, irregularity, unlawfulness and
no respect whatsoever for remedial action as prescribed
by the Public Protector.
It finds itself today in an almost crippling state, in
which there is no silver bullet or universal panacea that
can be applied to return its operations to that of a
healthy and well-functioning corporate entity. It will
require concerted effort, time, energy, resources and
continuous oversight by the department and this
Parliament to ensure its eventual return to a model of
good corporate governance and profit, whilst at the same
time serving the broadcasting needs of all South
Africans.
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Aside from its current status quo of abysmal operational
financial and management defects, it is also straying
with wanton impunity from the reserve of its founding
charter. One example being its defiance of the
corporation‘s code of practice in ensuring that its
services provide for the equitable treatment of all
segments of the South African population, and another
being that it must provide for a wide range of audience
interests, beliefs, and perspectives.
The ultra vires decision in respect of the 90/10 content
being played on SABC channels has in some instances
alienated large sections of listener bases. It is not
only contrary to the express mandate as contained in the
code but also detrimental to the SABC as advertising
revenues have tapered off with business no longer being
able to satisfactorily reach certain target audiences.
Evidence before the committee and as stated in our
report, will show that the current Minister of
Communications has not fulfilled her mandate as required
by the Act. In certain instances it seems that she has
gone way beyond what was required of her and exerted
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undue pressure on the board and management to take
decisions which one cannot be proud of. It is for this
reason, amongst others, that as the IFP supported by all
the members, our report recommends that the President
must seriously consider removing the current Minister
from this portfolio.
Senior positions must also be filled with suitably
qualified and experienced individuals and the work of
rebuilding the image and services of the public
broadcaster must begin de novo.
The lesson we have learnt from this, in the last few
seconds I have, is that the keen interest that the public
has taken in ad hoc committees, like Nkandla and SABC,
behoves us as Parliament and all the committees to ensure
that we use Rule 167 and have more of these kind of
protracted hearings into organisations like Eskom, SA
Social Security Agency, Sassa, SA Airways, SAA, amongst
others. I think it will do good governance in South
Africa and serve the interest of the public well; and
this Parliament can then hold itself up high. I thank
you, hon Speaker. [Applause.]
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Prof N M KHUBISA: Hon Speaker, hon members, the NFP
welcomes the comprehensive report of the ad hoc
committee, established to enquire into the fitness of the
board, tabled here today. Perhaps it is important that
one refers briefly to the terms of reference for the
enquiry which were wide-raging, and yet very specific.
Among others, the committee had to interrogate the SABC‘s
financial status and sustainability; the response of the
SABC to the Public Protector report; the SABC‘s response
to recent court judgement affecting it; and the response
of the SABC to Icasa‘s ruling against the decision of the
broadcaster to ban coverage of violent protest.
Furthermore, the committee was tasked to investigate the
current board‘s ability to take legally-binding decisions
following the resignation of a number of nonexecutives,
the board‘s adherence to the Broadcasting Charter; the
board‘s ability to carry out its duties as contemplated
in the Broadcasting Act; and several human resources
related matters such as governance structures,
appointments of executives and the terminations of
services of the affected executives.
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As the report confirms, each and every one of these terms
of references were broken and violated by the SABC board,
and the NFP believes that there needs to be consequences
for that. Prof Maguvhe and his entourage left us and he
went to address the media and put the whole thing in
disdain.
In all fairness, I must say, the board inherited some of
the problems before. The board inherited an SABC which
had become a terrain of political contestation, an
organisation where a total disregard and violation of
governance has become the norm and order of the day,
where fiduciary duty had been assigned to the dustbin of
corruption and nepotism.
I must say that the enquiry reported on here today
interrogated multiple transgressions of the board in
great detail, reflecting on suspicious deals such as
multichoice deal and many other deals. They blatantly
disregarded the courts, the Public Protector
recommendations and the remedial action, the AuditorGeneral report and Icasa. The enquiry also lay bare how
the editorial policies and regulations were undermined,
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flouted and a climate of fear and distrust created at the
SABC.
The NFP critically evaluated the findings, observations
and recommendations contained in the report, which we
support and agree to. Two issues in particular, which we
feel strongly about, is the interference of Minister
Muthambi and the political oversight. The Minister had to
come into a meeting where the chief operation officer,
COO, was to be appointed and that came with an influence
on who was to be appointed for that position.
The Department of Communications is in deep crisis and
the Minister has not been cracking the whip. Rather, she
has been shown to interfere a great deal and through her
conduct she has become complicit in the management of the
SABC. Under her watch the Memorandum of Incorporation,
MOI, of the SABC has been distorted, legislative
confusion was introduced and senior executives were
appointed without following due process.
The NFP believes that if these recommendations that are
contained here are implemented without delay, and if a
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firm time frame is set for the incoming board to comply,
then the SABC may well be stabilised and eventually
functioning in accordance with its mandate. South
Africans have the right to unbiased information, and the
SABC has primary responsibility to give effect to this
right. However, that could not happen if the SABC was to
be governed in terms of the unacceptable corporate
practices guided by a Minister who doesn‘t understand
what is required.
Therefore, the NFP agrees with the report that this
Minister must resign and the new incumbent must come in.
Thank you.
IsiXhosa:
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Somlomo, eneneni ibingumdudo wamasele
phaya kwa-SABC kodwa ndiyabona ukuba ...
English:
... they are taking pre-emptive stride.
Hon Speaker, from the outset, I would like to take this
opportunity to appreciate the hard work and the enduring
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professionalism of the committee members throughout the
life of this committee. For the first time in many years,
the country and the African continent rewarded the
committee with a resounding cheer for raising the bar of
parliamentary oversight.
Nowhere is this decision more evident than in the quality
of the report that is tabled in Parliament today; well
done colleagues! In fact, there quite a number of
recommendations that would more than help in forwarding
the cause of building an SA Broadcasting Corporation,
SABC, that adheres to its mandate as outlined in the
Broadcasting Act and the SABC Charter. Chief among them
are the need for the Memorandum of Incorporation, MOI, to
be amended in order to align it with the Broadcasting
Act; the need for the interim board to engage with the
Auditor-General to address all its findings relating to
irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditure as well as
to initiate disciplinary steps against any culprit, among
others.
The report also lays bare the central role the Minister
of Communications played in the SABC quagmire such as her
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role in amending the MOI. For these reasons we must not
mince our words in calling for the Minister of
Communications to bite the dust.
You will however recall that the committee did not accede
to the UDM‘s request to give Mr Hlaudi Motsoeneng a fair
opportunity to give his side of the story, although to a
large extent everything that was discussed in the enquiry
centred on him. Subsequent to this request and in a
letter dated 16 February 2017, Majavu Incorporated made a
similar request cautioning the committee about the
dangers of its refusal to grant Mr Motsoeneng an
opportunity to state his side of the story. Majavu
attorneys argue quite correctly that the committee‘s
refusal to give a hearing to Mr Motsoeneng ―has bridged a
foundational principle of our constitutional democracy,
the right to be heard.‖ This too fell on deaf ears.
Some have incorrectly argued that all our call seeks to
glorify Mr Motsoeneng. Nothing could be further from the
truth. We make this call because we know as you all do,
that he too deserves to be treated fairly like everyone
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else. As lawmakers, we should not only treat fairly those
whom we like and ill-treat all those we don‘t like.
Regrettably, what started out as a good process will now
go down with a double stigma of bias and illegitimacy.
For these reasons, the UDM does not support this report.
IsiXhosa:
Kwaye abo banengxaki bangahamba baye kuzixhoma ngentambo
yesigcawu emthini wetumata, asicuntsulwanga mntwini.
Enkosi.
Adv A D ALBERTS: Speaker, two conclusions can be made
regarding this committee‘s process and the findings made
- on the one hand, the report is a statement of how not
to run a public enterprise and on the other hand, how
Parliament should exercise its oversight role. We wish to
commend the ad hoc committee‘s aggressive and thorough
interrogation of the affairs of the SABC. At the same
time, we condemn the SABC senior management‘s misconduct
and abuse of power, as laid bare in the report. We
further condemn the SABC board‘s lack of proper oversight
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— save for those board members who followed their
conscience.
We reserve special condemnation for the SABC‘s previous
COO, Hlaudi Motsoeneng, and his ally, the Minister of
Communication, Faith Muthambi, who flouted the law in
every conceivable manner, to ensure control over the SABC
and the entrenchment of self-interest.
Afrikaans:
Daar is sekere aspekte van die komiteeverslag wat
spesiale vermelding verdien.
Eerstens, die Voorsitter van die SAUK-raad se aktiewe
ondermyning van die komitee deur sy weiering om te
verskyn en inligting te verskaf is skreiend en sy poging
om die ondersoek te stop deur ‘n hofaansoek is tekenend
van sy disrespek vir die Parlement. Die vraag is hoe hy
ooit aangestel is as Voorsitter van die SAUK.
English:
Secondly, we have noted the financial mismanagement of
the SABC and are taking action to ensure that those who
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have taken irresponsible decisions are held to account.
In this regard, we are in the process of requesting the
Companies and Intellectual Property Commission to
investigate Hlaudi Motsoeneng‘s decision to increase the
local content quotas before using all of the content
acquired from foreign suppliers. This would have been
paid in US dollars and will result in huge amounts to be
written off by the SABC.
We are asking the Companies and Intellectual Property
Commission to hold Mr Motsoeneng personally liable for
this in terms of the Companies Act.
Lastly, the Minister‘s circumvention of the Broadcasting
Act and her further unlawful acts to intervene in the
affairs of the SABC and to protect certain individuals
are unbecoming of a Minister who is supposed to uphold
the rule of law and the Constitution.
Afrikaans:
Gegewe die gemors by die SAUK kan mens jou net indink hoe
dit by ander openbare ondernemings gaan. Die gelekte
Dentons-verslag dui daarop dat dit nog slegter by Eskom
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gaan. Wat weereens deur hierdie gebeure bevestig word, is
dat die regering nie in staat is om enige ekonomie
sentraal te bestuur nie en dat hulle hulle hande van die
privaatsektor moet afhou.
English:
Based on this committees work, we recommend the following
steps: that Parliament appoints an ad hoc committee to
investigate the veracity of the findings in the Dentonsreport and continues its aborted investigation on another
state enterprise, namely Eskom; that the SABC management
is purged from personnel not appointed on merit; and that
Minister Faith Muthambi is fired. Thank you.
Ms D CARTER: Hon Speaker, firstly, my apologies, but the
actual list showed differently that the ACDP was first.
The SABC report sets out a sorry saga – a saga that is
symptomatic of all that has gone wrong with the
governance of our state. If all organs of our state were
subjected to the same level of honest and rigorous
scrutiny, as that which we have witnessed in the SABC
enquiry, similar abuses of power, corruption, capture,
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unethical conduct, and gross maladministration would be
exposed.
The report documents the gross abuse of power committed
with impunity by a member of our executive and by a board
and a SABC executive gone rogue. It points to a
Parliament that, for years, has failed in its obligations
and duties to exercise oversight and to hold those in
power and authority accountable. It points to those in
positions of power and authority, having had licence not
to account.
The ultimate questions in all of this are: Who gave the
Minister, the SABC board and its executive the license to
act with impunity? Who coerced Parliament to abdicate its
responsibilities to not exercise oversight, and to not
hold those in power and authority to account? Who has
been pulling the strings? These questions are not
answered by the report.
It is the ANC and Mr Zuma, the President of the Republic,
to whom the question must be posed and with whom the
answer lies.
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All the values that underpin our Constitution and that
are the difference between good and rotten governance,
have been violated, be it the supremacy of the
Constitution, loyalty of the state to the Constitution
and its people, the rule of law, oversight,
accountability, efficient and effective governance.
The SABC report sets out a sorry saga – a saga that is
symptomatic of all that has gone wrong with the
governance of our state under the once proud liberation
movement.
Nonetheless, the Congress of the People would like to
thank the multiparty ad hoc committee for a sterling job
done. Under the chairmanship of the hon Vincent Smith,
the committee worked tirelessly and performed a daunting
task under strenuous circumstances, within the time
period.
As the Congress of the People, we will support the
report. It is crucial that the relevant authorities
implement the committee‘s recommendations as a matter of
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urgency and that the appointment of an interim board is
expedited.
Now, I can hear that there is a cat on heat again in the
House, but if the President has any iota of integrity
left, he will fire the Minister with immediate effect.
[Applause.]
Mr B A RADEBE: Speaker, on a point of order,...
The SPEAKER: Hon member, what is your point of order?
Mr B A RADEBE: It is on Rule 84. The speaker just said
that the President does not have an iota of integrity.
So, that is insulting to the President. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: The speaker is no longer on the podium. She
managed to get away from her issue just in time.
[Interjections.]
Mr S N SWART: Speaker, this has been one of the most
thorough and far-reaching inquiries that I, as a member
of the ACDP, have been involved in at Parliament. My
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thanks to all involved - the chairperson and all the
staff. This is what Parliamentary oversight should look
like. This is what the public expect of us as
parliamentarians.
We were united across political lines in our focus on
getting to the bottom of the rot that has beset the SABC.
The inquiry made for riveting public viewing with many
citizens being encouraged to see us working together to
expose problems at the public broadcaster.
Regrettably, as highlighted by other members, the SABC
did not accord Parliament the due respect it deserves,
initially walking out of the inquiry, bringing a failed
High Court urgent application to prevent the inquiry
taking place, and accusing it inter alia of bias and
Motsoeneng bashing.
While we admit that the funding model of the SABC needs
to be reconsidered, and we might not understand all the
commercial sensitivities, let us make it very clear that
we will not tolerate any disrespect for this august
institution.
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What was also most disconcerting was the intimidation and
death threats experienced by certain witnesses, mainly
among the SABC-eight. We consider these threats, which
even continued while we were holding the inquiry, as a
threat against Parliament itself. Witnesses should be
free to give evidence before any parliamentary committee,
without any threats or intimidation.
It is also very clear that there has been significant
political interference at the SABC, over many years.
While this was not confined to the present Minister, the
committee found that the Minister displayed incompetence
in carrying out her responsibilities as the shareholder
representative.
The evidence also suggested major shortcomings in her
conduct, particularly relating to her apparent failure to
lodge the October Memorandum of Incorporation, MOI,
amendments, as well as her role in Mr Motsoeneng‘s
permanent appointment as COO. The ACDP consequently
supports the correctional recommendations suggested in
the report.
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The ACDP also focussed on the conflict of laws between
the Broadcasting Act and the Companies Act. The committee
was of the view that the Broadcasting Act clearly trumped
the Companies Act. However, the SABC and the Minister
seem to hold a different view, while we therefore support
the recommendation that, if it was not abundantly clear,
then the Broadcasting Act, being the principal Act, must
be amended to make it clear that it trumps the Companies
Act.
The ACDP also spent a lot of time going through the
Auditor-General‘s management letter and it is very clear
that the SABC is not technically insolvent – its assets
exceed its liabilities. There are serious concerns about
its cash-flow challenges, given the significant
deterioration in its cash reserves.
Lastly, the ACDP supports this report but encourages that
we have similar ad hoc committees looking at Eskom and
other parastatals, as it is exercising our oversight
function. Thank you.
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Mr L N NTSHAYISA: The role of the ad hoc committee to
enquire and make recommendations regarding certain
departments, State Owned Enterprises, SOEs, and its
subsidiary bodies is of great importance [Inaudible.]The
South African Broadcasting Corporation, SABC, is one of
the subsidiary bodies that have to be looked into
thoroughly.
The AIC is encouraged that it has exercised complete
oversight on the work of the executive. After all,
Minister Muthambi is the Accounting Officer in the
communications department. We widely support this
report‘s recommendation that an urgent interim board be
constituted. This should herald a new dispensation in the
area of broadcasting, where corporate governance, ethics
and integrity defines the order of the day. Board members
should demonstrate independence, good governance and
serve public in a manner that is expected and safeguard
the ethos of broadcasting.
The report heralds a renewed sense of hope in the
appointment of qualified, ethical and sober minded Chief
Operations officer, a Chief Executive Officer and a Chief
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Financial Officer. We appeal to all South Africans with
the requisite skills and a sense of patriotic vanity to
respond to this call.
We endorse the reports declaration that a Forensic
Independent Consultant should be appointed to investigate
the finances of the SABC, including the legality of the
contracts issued in the past, irregular appointments,
salary increments and performance bonuses paid to the
SABC staff during the period in question.
The AIC has always been convinced that the centre in the
SABC was shaky and mired in controversy. We have seen how
Independent Communications Authority of South Africa,
ICASA, has been disrespected by the former SABC COO. The
report of the ad hoc committee salvages this situation.
The SABC is to obliterate its current editorial policy,
which was often at pains with the work of journalists.
The ICASA will be spared some time off, as many
journalists will be working in a very conducive
environment, away from the spectacle of managerial
intimidation and interference.
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Minister Muthambi had appointed Mr Motseoneg using a
dodgy instrument called Memorandum of Incorporation. In
terms of the committee‘s report, this instrument will be
subject to investigation by the newly appointed board.
The AIC has not minced its words on the legality of
Hlaudi Motseoneng‘s appointment as the COO of the SABC,
least his intellectual make-up, which may have been
suspended.
We cannot have SOEs that operate in abstraction and
absolute impunity. It is time now to raffle feathers and
demonstrate leadership. Parliament cannot sit in its
metaphorical ivory tower whilst the cat has been set
among pigeons. We endorse the report because it is going
to take us forward. I thank you hon Speaker.
Mrs J D KILIAN: Hon Speaker, hon Ministers and hon
colleagues here. First of all, from our side also, a word
of special thanks to hon Smith for his able stewardship
of this process, and thanks to the opposition for having
resisted the temptation to play petit politics with a
matter that was of significant importance to South
Africans.
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We had one common goal and that was to identify the
extent and the root causes of the systematic governance
failures of the SABC board. We had to find out, going
forward, how this Parliament could ensure that the SABC
fulfils its public mandate and upholds the values
enshrined in the Constitution, the Broadcasting Charter
and other relevant legislative provisions.
We all know that there was only one person standing at
the time when the committee started its process and soon
thereafter he resigned. But the fact is, whether we like
it or not, the new Companies Act compels all directors
and makes no distinction between executive and non
executive directors of companies to exercise fiduciary
responsibilities. So, consequently, the committee had to
proceed with its work.
The committee felt that, the SABC board did not, over
several years, understand or executive its fiduciary
duties. A whole lot of indications were already given in
how many respects they have failed. I would like to focus
on the fact that there were so many irregular, unplanned
and unscheduled meetings that were called. That resulted
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in lack of quorum and round robin decision making. Some
of the approvals were only adopted by a formal board
meeting months after the event.
Some board members failed to understand their oversight
role and they were manipulated by executives who had
ulterior motives. They failed to understand their role to
account to Parliament. The board closed their eyes to the
harassment of newsroom staff and purging of others. They
were oblivious about apparent purging of highly qualified
and experienced senior managers.
The question is what were the root causes? We have
discovered that there was most definitely a role played
from the Minister‘s office. There was an interchangeable
use of the Broadcasting Act and the Companies Act when it
came to the removal of board members. There was growing
erosion of board powers to hold the executive management
to account and there was an absolute erosion of their
role vis-à-vis the disciplining of senior managers.
Interference by management in newsroom activities was
totally unacceptable. We must understand that there were
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some critical points in recent times; one of them was the
appointment of the acting COO in a permanent capacity, Mr
Motsoeneng, as already mentioned by some of the members.
The ad hoc was not convinced that there was no pressure
on the board to appoint Mr Motsoeneng. There was also
evidence presented that the Minister was involved in the
irregular removal of some board members – they voted each
other out of office. That cannot happen because it was
totally irregular and this matter is before the courts at
present.
Parliament was unfortunately also not an innocent
bystander. Despite a legal opinion presented to the
Committee on Communication that the board member removal
was irregular, the portfolio committee unfortunately did
not stand their ground to oppose the irregular removal of
board members and that calls for better oversight.
As far as the Memorandum of Incorporation, MOI, is
concerned, we have to indicate that the irregular changes
to the Memorandum of Incorporation is posing a very
serious risk to the SABC. Fact of the matter is, with a
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specific MOI having been registered with the Companies
and Property Intellectual Company Commission and another
one being effectively implemented it means that there is
no legal basis for the delegation of authority framework.
This means that some contracts and some disciplinary
action against officials of the SABC could be ultra
vires. It could expose the SABC to significant legal
challenges. This is a matter that the newly soon to be
appointed interim board should address immediately; they
should conduct a risk analysis for the SABC.
What we have learned from this process is that we need to
review our laws and make sure that they talk to each
other. The Broadcasting Act is an Act of special
application and the Companies Law addresses specific
matters relating to fiduciary responsibilities of
directors. But the two must speak to each other; you
cannot have one process to appoint your board through
Parliament - through a public process - and then board
members who have internal strife vote each other out. It
cannot be like that. So, we must amend and make sure that
we address certain grey areas in the Acts relating the
SABC.
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The Broadcasting Amendment Bill that was tabled in
Parliament is not the answer. That bill will do away with
Parliament‘s role to appoint the board members and it
will pave a way for direct interventions by the
shareholder into the operations of the SABC. It will
change the character of the public broadcaster
completely.
We can never sacrifice the principles enshrined in our
Constitution, freedom of expression, access to
information and public accountability as well as the duty
to promote our rich cultural heritage. The SABC is a
special institution and we must keep it like that. It
belongs to all South Africans, irrespective of creed,
language or political affiliation. Its role is to educate
and entertain and ensure public broadcasting without
commercial or political influence.
The ad hoc has completed its task and it now hands the
report to Parliament for further action and to the
Portfolio Committee on Communications.
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The interim board, once appointed, should restore
stability and credibility and should take action against
those executives who threaten and manipulate thousands of
good people working at the SABC. Heads should roll. Thank
you Speaker. [Applause.]
Mr M A PLOUAMMA: Thank you, hon Speaker and hon members.
I also want to thank the chairperson hon Smith and
members of the committee.
Hlaudi Motsoeneng and the board are holding the SA
Broadcasting Corporation, SABC, hostage with his stooges.
He has made the SABC a headquarters of ANC propaganda. He
has turned the SABC into a state-controlled broadcaster.
Our people are fed with distorted and skewed information.
The question is, how has this counterproductive force
called Hlaudi Motsoeneng managed to hold our institution
to ransom, terrorising journalists like its still
apartheid times. It is truly a sin for this buffoon and
cohorts to suppress and undermine our journalistic
talents.
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With Minister Muthambi and Hlaudi Motsoeneng at the helm,
we are truly reversing the gains and sacrifices of great
South Africans like the late Zwelakhe Sisulu and Percy
Qoboza who fought hard for the independence of
journalists and freedom of expression.
We need a board that is independent from political
interference. We need to inject it with a new ethos to
serve our nation and her people. A public broadcaster
must be the nation speaking to itself, unlike what Hlaudi
Motsoeneng has done in turning the SABC into a house of
paranoia. We must act swiftly to prevent this truth from
decaying further, in order to put the SABC onto a path of
glory and to stop it from being government‘s mouthpiece.
While we support these recommendations, this experience
must teach us not to trust the ANC and to always remain
vigilant for a mere fact that Minister Muthambi still
parades herself in public. It is a shame and an
embarrassment to our nation. We really don‘t know whose
interest she is serving.
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An independent public broadcaster allows the nation to
reflect and reflect upon itself. We should not allow
ourselves to return to the dark ages of the past.
Mr L R MBINDA: Thank you, hon Speaker. As the PAC we have
been saying time and time again here in this House that
we are against political interference by the ruling elite
so as to advance and safeguard their interests and that
of their masters at the expense of state institutions.
The SABC just recently suffered from this.
South Africa‘s Constitution guarantees press freedom, and
that we cannot attain while the political principals make
it their business to weaken the public broadcaster so
that it is unable to discharge its duties, especially in
exposing wrongdoing in government by government
officials.
One of the greatest risks of allowing political
interference is that when the ruling party is suffering
from factionalism and infighting, it spreads out to all
institutions where political interference has been
ongoing for a long time, as is the case with the SABC.
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Our public broadcaster has an important role to play in
our society and as the PAC we want to make it clear in
this House today that the employment of people due to
their political affiliation and/or relations, and not
their qualifications, reputation and skills must be
condemned with the contempt it deserves.
As the PAC we have also noted the negative attitude of
some political editors within the SABC. It is our view as
the PAC that the changing of names of board members and
hoping that the situation will change itself might be
wishful thinking on our part, but what we need is a
policy change in the running and dealings of the SABC and
its board.
Underqualified people can no longer be given millions of
rand in bonuses for doing absolutely nothing apart from
noisemaking with no content, advancing the cause of a
particular faction of the ruling party.
The PAC supports the report and fully agrees that in the
interim our public broadcaster needs leadership as a
matter of urgency. However, in the medium to long term we
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need to critically look at the policy framework so as to
avoid the massive wrongdoing our SABC has recently been
subjected to.
Mr N T GODI: Thank you, Speaker. The APC stands to
welcome and support the report of the ad hoc committee on
the SABC. The work of the ad hoc committee by and large
put oversight and Parliament on a higher pedestal and
consciousness of the public. By and large it is a
practice that can be emulated and enhanced by other
committees in the House.
The SABC is an important public entity whose good
governance should be of concern to all of us for
sometimes governance has been a challenge leading to
financial losses and instability of its boards and senior
management. As we speak the SABC has no board and almost
all senior managers are in an acting capacity.
The process of strengthening or rebuilding the SABC
starts with this House appointing boards that will serve
their full term and have one agenda which is the common
good of the people. The appointment of senior managers to
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permanent posts is to ensure that the SABC is run in
compliance with the law ... so for the SABC, so for all
institutions of state that have shown weaknesses,
distress and going concern challenges. There is a need
for sustained engagement with the SABC.
The only sting of the entire process is the fact that the
elephant in the room called Hlaudi Motsoeneng was not
called to appear before the committee. We hear some
members describing him in very colourful language, yet he
did not have the opportunity to come and put his side of
the story.
When you talk about looting and ailing institutions, its
unfortunate that we had to stop somewhere but I know
there is one Adv Dali Mpofu who was a chief executive
officer, CEO, of the SABC and at the time when that
institution was really on its knees he pocketed about
R10 million as a golden handshake. I think it is those
kinds of people who should be ... [Inaudible.]
The SPEAKER: Order, hon Godi. Can you take your seat, hon
Godi? Can I take ...
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Mr N T GODI: Well, I‘m ... [Inaudible.]
Mr M Q NDLOZI: Point of order. Take a seat. Huh uh! Hey
Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa! Speaker,
look, Scopa is running away from accountability!
[Laughter.]
The SPEAKER: Well, he is gone.
Mr M Q NDLOZI: The advocate of the people never did such
a thing. Hon Godi is deliberately misleading the House.
It‘s regrettable. That‘s why he is running away.
Mr J SELFE: Speaker, I want to commend the ad hoc
committee for the rigorous way in which it conducted its
enquiry into the SABC.
The report reads like a horror story. It‘s a story of
maladministration and corruption; of fear and
intimidation; of nepotism and the abuse of power. At the
centre of this story sit two malignant individuals, Mr
Hlaudi Motsoeneng and the Minister of Communications.
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Like so many public institutions, the SABC has failed the
public. Viewed cumulatively, the report portrays the SABC
as indistinguishable from that which existed under
apartheid — biased, partisan, irresponsible, profligate
and unaccountable.
As Members of Parliament we need to introspect about how
we allowed that to happen. Ultimately, it was left up to
the Public Protector to expose the rotten state of the
SABC in her report, When Governance and Ethics Fail,
released in February 2014.
When we realised that the government and Parliament would
not implement the Public Protector‘s remedial action, the
DA approached the courts in a two-part application:
Firstly, to suspend Mr Motsoeneng and subject him to a
disciplinary hearing, which the Public Protector had
ordered; and
Secondly, to declare that his appointment as chief
operating officer, COO, was irrational and therefore
illegal.
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On 24 October 2014, we got an order compelling the SABC
to suspend Mr Motsoeneng and to subject him to a
disciplinary hearing. He and the SABC sought leave to
appeal. On 23 April 2015, he was granted leave to appeal
but the SABC was ordered to implement the disciplinary
hearing pending the appeal. He and the SABC appealed
again. The case was adjudicated by the Supreme Court of
Appeal on 8 October 2015 and the appeal was dismissed.
On 27 November 2015, the Western Cape High Court reviewed
and set aside the appointment of Mr Motsoeneng as COO. He
and the SABC appealed. On 23 May 2016, leave to appeal
was dismissed. The SABC and Motsoeneng petitioned the
Supreme Court of Appeal for leave to appeal and in
September 2016 these petitions were dismissed by the
Supreme Court of Appeal.
The SABC then convened a sham disciplinary hearing
against Mr Motsoeneng in December 2015, which predictably
exonerated him as key witnesses were not called. The DA
again approached the courts to review and set aside this
disciplinary hearing. The SABC in turn applied for a stay
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to these proceedings. The application for a stay was
dismissed on 14 June 2016.
Judgement in the DA‘s case was delivered on 12 December
2016. The disciplinary hearing of December 2015 was set
aside and a new one was ordered, and Mr Motsoeneng‘s
appointment as group executive of corporate affairs was
set aside. The court ordered that he could not occupy any
senior position in the SABC until after the disciplinary
hearing.
Mr Motsoeneng and Mr Aguma were ordered to pay our costs
personally. Guess what? The SABC and Mr Motsoeneng
applied for leave to appeal. On 7 February 2017, this
application for appeal was dismissed. At every stage the
SABC and/or its executive directors were ordered to pay
the DA‘s costs, which now amount to millions of rand.
These cases show what happens when the board and its
executive directors act with impunity. This culture of
impunity must end in the public broadcaster immediately.
[Applause.]
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Dr M B KHOZA: Madam Speaker, first of all let me also
echo my appreciation to all the different political
parties under the stewardship of hon Smith. This was,
indeed, not a very easy process. Nevertheless, we managed
to navigate through it. Unanimously, the committee agreed
that that governance compromises the financial status and
sustainability of the SA Broadcasting Corporation. It is
within this context that the ANC, as the leader of
society, takes into account the fact that if you want to
lead a society or if you assume a leadership position as
a leader of society, you have to assume a high moral
ground. Notwithstanding that, I have no doubt in my mind
that the ad hoc committee was meticulous in its execution
of its task. It is within this context that the ANC is
supporting this report and that the ANC cannot resist
logic and sense.
The ANC 53rd national congress resolution in Mangaung
clearly states what has to be done about the SABC, and
yet we were betrayed. We have to say this clearly. We
were betrayed by those entrusted with the responsibility
of leading that institution. As the ANC because we are
humble servants of our people, we are acknowledging that
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and we are correcting what has been happening at the
SABC. Evidence emanating from the 2016-17 parliamentary
inquisitorial process on the SABC awakened us to the
critical importance of the legislative authority, which
is Parliament to perform effective oversight over the
executive.
It is within this context again that we draw our strength
from the publication of James Davison Hunter in his book
entitled The Death of Character: Moral Education in an
Age Without Good or Evil. He has this to say:
We want strong morality but without the emotional
burden of guilt or shame; we want virtue but without
particular moral justifications that invariably
offend; we want good without having to name evil; we
want decency without the authority to insist upon
it.
It is within this context once more that this committee
decided that for it to deliver on its mandate as
entrusted by this honourable House it had to assume high
moral ground. It was, nevertheless, disturbing that Prof
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Maguvhe and the current acting chief executive officer,
CEO, did not seem to understand the difference between
the public service and the commercial service that the
SABC has to perform. We wish to remind them that part 4
of section 11(1)(d) and (e) of the Act, states that:
(1)
The commercial services provided by the
corporation must –
(d)
subsidise the public services to the
extent recommended by the board and
approved by the Minister; and
(e)
be operated in an efficient manner so as
to maximise the revenues provided to its
shareholder.
It is therefore important that we make sure that the SABC
is turned around and returned to its profitability
because it is true that those revenues that we are going
to get from the commercial services of the SABC that we
shall be able to deliver on our public service mandate.
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Although the SABC punches holes on the evidence led by
its own former senior staff members and alleges that they
were guilty of gross misconduct, it is very disturbing to
note that the very staff accused of gross misconduct were
actually given golden handshakes by the very SABC when
terminating their contracts.
We have to go into the root causes of some of the
questionable transactions. Without that there is no way
we can bring the SABC to its financial sustainability. We
have a vision to review contracts, The New Age media
arrangement and the Multi Choice agreement. All these
contracts are extremely questionable and we are hoping
that this interim board that is coming in is going to get
into the root cause of this.
In supporting this report we want to make sure that the
SABC cash flows are returned back to their normalcy. As
hon Swart has already said we are extremely concerned
about the cash reserves of the SABC. They have been
shrinking in an alarming pace. Within four months the
SABC has almost lost more than 40% of its reserves and we
don‘t think this is a healthy financial situation.
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On that note we are saying, the SABC will also have to
review their policies that have been adopted which have
led to the net loss of R411 million during the 2015-16
financial year. In our view as the committee we attribute
this to the net effect of the SABC‘s erratic and ill
process policy choices that have cost the public
broadcaster millions of rand.
We are therefore tabling this report to say as the ANC
that we support it. We also welcome the fact that all the
other parties worked with us because they do believe that
the public broadcaster is a strategic asset and that we
have to defend it at all costs. I also welcome all the
positive contributions that we received from the other
members of the other parties and I want to say, keep it
up. That is how South Africa would prosper. I thank you,
Madam Speaker. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Question put.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Chair, I move:
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That the Report be adopted by this House.
Motion agreed to (United Democratic Movement dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON
COMMUNICATIONS – RECOMMENDATION OF CANDIDATES TO FILL
VACANCIES ON COUNCIL OF INDEPENDENT COMMUNICATIONS
AUTHORITY OF SOUTH AFRICA, ICASA
Mr C H M MAXEGWANA: House Chair and members, good
afternoon. The Portfolio Committee on Communications,
having considered the request from the Minister of
Communications to fill two vacancies in the Independent
Communications Authority of South Africa, Icasa, council,
advertised the call for nominations of persons to serve
in Icasa. We received 35 nominations. After shortlisting, we publicly interviewed six candidates. As the
subcommittee, we tabled our report to the committee, and
the committee endorsed our report.
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I have to add the committee unanimously agreed on two of
the applicants, namely Adv Qocha and Ms Nomonde Gongxeka.
However, the third name, Ms Palesa Kadi, was agreed on by
the committee, but the DA abstained from that third name.
The reason they put forward was that the DA person who
was part of the interview was not present. This person
went through the curriculum vitae and interviewed the
people with us but was not part of the committee where we
endorsed the three names. The committee therefore
recommends to the House the names of Palesa Kadi, Adv
Qocha and Ms Gongxeka.
Those names will be forwarded through processes of
Parliament so that two of these three people are part of
the council. Remember, the Icasa council members are the
people who take decisions, and they serve full time. Any
of these three who might work somewhere else would have
to resign from that employment and commit full time to
Icasa. House Chair, those are the names we recommend for
approval by the House, as I have submitted. Thank you
very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
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Question put: That Adv Dimakatso Qocha, Ms Nomonde
Gongxeka and Ms Palesa Kadi be recommended for
appointment to the Council of Independent Communications
Authority of South Africa.
Declarations of vote:
Afrikaans:
Ms V VAN DYK: Voorsitter en lede van die Huis, die DA
onderskryf die aanstelling van Adv Dimakatso Qocha en Me
Nomonde Gongxeka om twee vakatures in die raad van die
Onafhanklike Kommunikasie-owerheid van Suid-Afrika,
Okosa, te vul.
Ons maak egter ten sterkste beswaar teen die insluiting
van die derde kandidaat, Me Palesa Kadi. Sy beskik nie
oor die voldoende vaardighede en ondervinding nie, en
haar insluiting op die lys was prosedureel gebrekkig.
Ondanks die feit dat die komitee ‘n onderhoud met haar
gevoer het, is sy nie gekies as een van die finale
kandidate nie. Op 23 November 2016 toe die komitee die
finale keuses bespreek het, was Me Kadi glad nie ter
sprake of bespreek nie.
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English:
One of the candidates we discussed on the final day was
Mr Linden Petzer. He is one of South Africa‘s most
respected specialists in the field of radio frequency
spectrum, and his skills are much needed on Icasa‘s
council. He has a vast amount of experience and subject
knowledge and was the DA‘s preferred candidate.
Surprisingly, Ms Kadi was introduced to the list on
20 February 2017, this because of the failure of two of
the other candidates to receive police clearance.
She was not the first choice of any of the parties, but
the ANC preferred to accept her inadequacies rather than
appoint Mr Petzer, the best person for the job. This move
that further aggravates the dearth of appropriately
skilled technical people on Icasa‘s council gives
credence to the view that undermining the integrity of
Icasa is a deliberate ANC strategy.
The DA maintains that the process was flawed and that Ms
Kadi is by no means suitable for the council. The DA
further argued that the Rules indicate that the National
Assembly must submit a candidate list with at least one-
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and-a-half times more candidates to the Minister for
endorsement, providing the number of posts to be filled
is more than one. Therefore, in terms of this provision,
Mr Petzer‘s name should have been added to the list, but
he ended up a casualty of the ANC‘s insistence on
incompetency, which underscores its bias towards
broadcasting knowledge at the expense of
telecommunications.
The recent collapse of the SABC due to an absolute
failure to properly vet and monitor board members and
senior officials should serve as a warning to all
parliamentary committees making selections in future.
Afrikaans:
Wanneer dit kom by Okosa en ander liggame wat deur die
staat befonds word, moet ons versigtig wees ten einde te
verseker dat politieke agendas nie ons oordeel vertroebel
by die kies van kandidate wat die belastingbetalers van
Suid-Afrika moet dien nie.
English:
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As members of this House, we need to start taking our
responsibilities and mandates seriously by ensuring that
vacant positions are given to the best candidates. We
condemn state entities to perpetual failure by packing
their boards with inadequately skilled comrades. This
House must shoulder some of the blame for these entities‘
failures.
Afrikaans:
Die DA erken Okosa se onlangse beslissing om ‘n aansoek
deur e.tv teen te staan om sy lisensie voorwaardes te
wysig ten einde hul nuusuitsendings uit die spitstydgleuf
te skuif. Dit is ‘n belangrike mylpaal en die versekering
dat 12 miljoen Suid-Afrikaners wat staatmaak op
nuusuitsendings in spitstyd as ‘n bron van inligting sal
voortgaan om toegang tot nuusuitsendings op ‘n redelike
tyd te hê.
English:
The DA looks forward to Icasa‘s response to our request
to conduct an inquiry into the recent proliferation of
fake news in South Africa‘s broadcast media space.
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Afrikaans:
Die DA sal voortgaan om te veg vir elke burger se reg tot
akkurate inligting en om te verseker dat alle besluite
geneem word in belang van elke Suid-Afrikaner. Dankie.
[Applous.]
Mr M L W FILTANE: The UDM supports this one. Icasa plays
a very important role as an independent regulatory body
of the South African telecommunications and broadcasting
sector. It does this in the interest of the public. Icasa
has to be effective in regulating the South African
Broadcasting Corporation, SABC, so that it plays its role
as public broadcaster in the public interest and promote
democracy.
Isixhosa:
Masiqinisekise ukuba isebenzela ilizwe lonke, ingabi
yeyegcuntswana.
English:
The filling of vacancies in this institution should go a
long way in ensuring that Icasa continue to be an
effective regulator. In its nature, Icasa should be about
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protecting citizens‘ interests and play its role as a
watchdog for a democratic society. It is therefore
required to be effective and truly independent.
Icasa has to be transparent, accountable and
participatory and run professionally by people who have
the requisite knowledge and skills to discharge this
important societal task. We have confidence that the
recommended names will add value to the mandate of Icasa
in discharging its duties and hope that Icasa will ensure
that radio stations ...
Isixhosa:
... ezifana no-Umhlobo Wenene umzekelo nosisikhululo
solwimi lwesiXhosa, zisasaza ngolwimi lwazo. Kukho aba
bafana batsha nala mantombazana athanda ukusasaza
ngesilungu kakhulu endaweni yokusasaza ngolwimi
lwesikhululo eso. Le nto iyasigulisa ke thina kuba abantu
bakuthi abasiva isilungu. Bathi abaphulaphuli besamamele
Umhlobo Wenene bavele basasaze ngesilungu.
Ndiqinisekile ukuba kunjalo ke nakwezinye iilwimi. Kukho
olu lutsha lufunde kwezi zikolo ezibizwa ngoku zi-model
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C. Ngoko i-Icasa mayiqiniseke ukuba iyayinqanda le nto.
Ukuba isikhululo sesolwimi lwesibhulu makusasazwe ngolo
lwimi kungabe kuxutywa-xutywa. Silindele loo nto ke kwaba
bantu batyunjelwe ukuba bangene apha. Enkosi.
Mr M Q NDLOZI: House Chairperson, there is three points
that we want to make. We cannot as well put our weight
behind the last name for the obvious reasons of
procedure. Our recommendation as a matter of fact was
that, for any additional candidate to be found, we have
had to restart the process to find a suitable candidate.
I think that we must also record that it is concerning
that the Minister of Communications is not in the House
to hear these recommendations, including the
recommendations on the last item. I think Parliament has
to express itself that when important recommendations
like members of the board that she has to apply her mind
on are being submitted and she is not here, it‘s really
concerning.
So, we want to register that that will result in the same
type of incompetence that she displayed in relation to
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the SABC. It was important for her to come and hear some
of the substantial disagreements that happened around
these recommendations. As the EFF, we want to put it on
record that in as much as we are comfortable with the
first two names in relation to the last name because of
these procedural flaws, we cannot support. Thank you very
much.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: House Chair, hon members of the House,
let me also acknowledge the President of my party, hon
Zanele Magwaza-Msibi. [Applause.] The NFP welcomes the
report tabled here, today, by the Portfolio Committee on
Communications.
The Icasa plays a pivotal role in regulating our
communications, broadcasting and postal services sector.
The NFP expresses its concern with the lapse of time
since the office of the previous chairperson of the
council expired on 20 June 2015. This means that Icasa
had to function for more than 19 months now without the
benefit of a guiding hand of a chairperson.
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Moreover, the vacancy which arose with the resignation of
former councillor, Dr Masiya Sosikwa, has now existed for
25 months. We submit that such vacancies are counter
productive to the requirement for effective governance.
The longer these vacancies persist, the longer it will
take the Icasa to be operational at maximum capacity.
We need to have a closer look at our processes in
facilitating nominations of this kind. We understand the
restrictions which public participation places on the
pace at which the nomination process is managed. We have
to find ways to expedite the process. State bodies such
as Icasa can only function at a maximum capacity if they
have the full complement of expertise available to it as
provided for in legislation.
If we are to make our democracy work the way it is
intended, then we need to ensure that undue delays in the
filling of vacancies be dealt with as swiftly as
possible. To conclude, the NFP supports the
recommendations contained in the report tabled here,
today. I thank you.
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Mr L M NTSHAYISA: Hon House Chairperson, as the AIC, we
also support the appointment of these councillors. We
know very well that the filling of vacancies in any
institution does give hope. The fact that Icasa has been
without these three councillors has been big gap indeed.
That means the work has not been done properly.
This also contributes a lot to the reduction of
unemployment, which is one of the challenges facing our
country. We therefore support the fact that people should
be appointed so that a lot of people get work in our
country. Thank you very much.
Tshivenḓa:
Vho R M TSELI: Mudzulatshidulo wa Buthano ḽa lushaka. Sa
ANC, ri tikedza muvhigo wa komiti ya zwa vhudavhidzani.
English:
We support the report largely because the three
recommended candidates proved beyond reasonable doubt
that in the interviews that they have the necessary
expertise and experience in the media industry and
possess suitable qualifications.
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We are satisfied as the ANC with the selection process
that involved participation by the public in the
nomination process as required by the Icasa Act, which
led to 35 nominations as reported by the Chairperson. We
can report to this august House that the third candidate
that the other colleagues are objecting, Palesa Kadi, is
a dynamic youth activist, who is currently an executive
in the Film and Publication Board, FPB. She is very
excellent in corporate governance and media development.
As the ANC, we are confident that, if she is considered
for appointment as a councillor, she can make a
meaningful contribution in taking the regulator to
greater heights, like the other two candidates.
We want to thank all the candidates that supported this
report and to those that have objected, we want to
indicate that we have given them ample time to convince
us to agree to their candidacy but they dismally failed.
As the ANC, once more, we support the report. Thank you
very much. [Applause.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: House Chairperson, if I
may, the Act governing Icasa requires that the
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recommendations to the President are made after a process
involving public comments and also a public
advertisement. I would like to seek your guidance whether
the person who was injected into the process at a later
stage has met the requirements in terms of the Act, the
publication and public comments around that particular
name. We seek your guidance on that matter.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon Steenhuisen, I
would have to confirm with the Chairperson, but from his
presentation, there was no suggestion that all processes
were not followed, but perhaps we can ask the Chairperson
of the committee to clarify. Chairperson!
Mr M H C MAXEGWANA: House Chair, again, the vacancies
were advertised. The subcommittee of the portfolio
committee short listed and interviewed. All parties were
part of the interviewing process including, hon Phumzile
Van Damme, who is part of the subcommittee of the
portfolio committee.
So, I do not know where the DA missed all this, however,
all processes were open, interviews were done in an open
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platform, we interacted with them. In our view, the
processes of Parliament were all followed. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon member, it
looks like there is a dispute that all the names that are
recommended here were part of the process. Can you just
clarify that all the names that were put forward were
they part of the ...
Mr M H C MAXEGWANA: All of them, hon House Chair, were
part of the six that were shortlisted. Palesa Kadi, who
is apparently a dispute, was part of that, in fact, she
is part of the first three members to be interviewed in
the presence of everybody from the committee.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon Steenhuisen, I
was also just being advised that the report was
publicised in February to allow for public comments, if
any and I am not sure whether there might be any other
processes in your view that were not followed.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: House Chairperson, it
was the late injection of curriculum vitae of the
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candidate who is in dispute. I have a concern that
section 5(1)(a) and (c) of the Icasa Act have not been
followed, but if you are giving the House the assurance
that that has been done; obviously we have to accept
that. I believe it is very difficult to shortlist and to
involve the public in a process when somebody is injected
into that process at a very late stage as a shortlisted
candidate.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Thanks for your
understanding, Hon Steenhuisen, but from the
clarification it does seem that all the candidates that
are now recommended to the House were part of the
shortlist that happened in the committee. And in terms of
the processes, they actually met all the criteria.
There was no debate.
Question put: That Adv Dimakatso Qocha, Ms Nomonde
Gongxeka and Ms Palesa Kadi be recommended for
appointment to the Council of Independent Communications
Authority of South Africa.
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Division demanded.
House divided.
[Take in from minutes.]
Question agreed to.
PROMOTING HARMONIOUS CO-EXISTENCE AND RESPECT FOR THE
RIGHTS OF ALL PERSONS, INCLUDING FOREIGN NATIONALS, AS
ENJOINED BY OUR CONSTITUTION
(Subject for Discussion)
Ms T E KENYE: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers and Deputy
Ministers, distinguished guests in the gallery, the ANC
moves that, we as this Parliament, in light of the recent
eruptions of violent events towards foreign nationals,
including the most recent event in Olievenhoutbosch in
Gauteng, debate the importance of promoting harmonious
co-existence and respect for the rights of all persons in
South Africa as enjoined by our Constitution.
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Chapter 2, subsections 7 to 39 of our Constitution
contains the Bill of Rights which is the cornerstone of
our democracy. Our government respects and protects these
rights vigorously through our independent judiciary, law
enforcement and various Chapter 9 institutions. These
rights cover all those who are in South Africa at any
given moment such as citizens, visitors, foreign
nationals and so on.
The preamble of our Constitution ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, mama Kenye,
can you please hold on. Order! Hon members, those of us
who are leaving the chamber can we do that quietly and
those who are conversing can also do it in a manner that
respects the speaker. Order! Hon member, you can proceed.
Ms T E KENYE: ... which is extracted from the Freedom
Charter states that, ―South Africa belongs to all who
live in it.‖ It is worth remembering that in our
commemoration of the centenary of Tata Oliver Tambo, the
longest serving president of the ANC; it is him who
started the tradition of annual themes to keep us
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focussed on the emancipation of our people. It is
therefore befitting to refocus ourselves during his
commemoration of what would have been his 100 years
birthday, on one of our founding principles that he
worked tirelessly for, as an internationalist, that of
harmonious and peaceful co-existence of nations and
peoples of the world and more especially Africans. Hence,
the last clause of the Freedom Charter which states that,
―There shall be peace and friendship.‖
Our government has always stood up and will do so in the
future whenever there are perpetrators of violence
masquerading in different forms in our society.
Chairperson, in 2015 our government offered a
comprehensive response to the eruption of violence
towards foreign nationals. That included our Hon
President Zuma, personally getting involved by visiting
those who were affected, an Inter-Ministerial Committee,
Parliament‘s multiparty Ad Hoc Committee, among others.
These structures visited the communities of Alexander and
Durban.
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From our interaction with these communities the feedback
we got laid bare some of the underlying causes, mainly
socioeconomic issues, breakdown in law enforcement and so
on. It became very clear to us that South Africans
couldn‘t be stereotyped as xenophobic as poor communities
frequently fought over limited resources and the pinch of
our economy drives some to despondency and resentment. I
think the name xenophobic means severe hatred of
foreigners and I do not think that South Africans are
xenophobic.
Poor communities with little or no job skills saw
themselves as fighting for the same low-income jobs and
small businesses with foreign nationals, which they
deemed can take the lowest offer because of their
circumstances.
IsiXhosa:
Bathi abantu esasiye kubo, siyile Komiti yeThutyana
eyayonyulwe apha ePalamente, eGina Stores, eThekwini baye
baqhankqalaza befuna ukunyuselwa imivuzo. Abantu
ababathandayo nabahlala nabo abasuka kumazwe angaphandle
baye bangena kwizithuba zabo xa begxothwayo nangona
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uqhankqalazo lwabo beluvumelekile lusemthethweni. Iye
yabaxabanisa ke loo nto.
English:
This confirms what we know that, since time immemorial
Africans had had a history of harmonious and peaceful coexistence irrespective of their nationalities. This is
imprinted in the cultures of some of our biggest
townships such as Soweto, Khayelitsha, Mdantsane, etc. We
should be careful of loaded terms that might drive hidden
agendas in our communities. We are left to wonder, in
some instances, whether some of these conflicts are not
used as political tool to cause instability.
I wish to state that South Africa is underpinned by the
rule of law which allows everything else to operate
normally, and only under subsection 36 of the
Constitution are rights of those who live within our
boundaries limited under reasonable and justifiable
circumstances based on human dignity, equality and
freedom. This means that the law is applied equally,
without fear or favour to all those who live within the
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boundaries of this beautiful land - be they citizens,
visitors and foreign nationals.
It is a known fact that the ANC was an inclusive
liberation movement that accommodated Africans across the
continent and that has been the driving motive of this
ANC-led government emboldened further by the years we
spent among other nations, more especially African
countries in the continent that housed or embraced us
during our exiled years. We shall never forget such
hospitality from our own brothers and sisters. It is
therefore a historical fact that the ANC-led government
is the main driver and leader of harmonious co-existence
of Africans wherever they find themselves. It has been
the ANC-led government‘s commitment and practice to work
towards a better Africa and a better world.
Our country needs to deal decisively with all those
issues, group of people, individuals or elements that
seek to cause political instability by perpetrating
criminal activities under different disguises. We pledge
law enforcement agencies to prevail on them; the arm of
law to catch up with them; and that they be dealt with
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decisively by courts of law. We ask all those who have
been wronged, especially fellow Africans to allow the law
to take its course and not take law into their own hands.
We have a handful of laws to assist us with dealing with
these situations. I so move, thank you.
Mr S C MOTAU: Hon Chair, thank you very much. Hon
members, there is no doubt in my mind that all the good
people of this country cherish the promotion of
harmonious co-existence and respect for the rights of all
persons, including foreign nationals. This is the case
because we want to establish a society based on
democratic values, social justice and fundamental human
rights for all who live in the country; a country that is
peaceful and a country that is free of crime.
Sadly, we seem to be failing behind in our noble national
mission. As matters stand, this country seems more
divided and violent than at any time since 1994.
Xenophobia, homophobia, racism and religious intolerance,
particularly as manifested in anti-semitism, bedevil the
social fabric of our nation.
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This, despite the fact that the Presidency is mandated to
lead an agenda and the discourse on nation-building,
social cohesion and national identity facilitated through
the Moral Regeneration Movement and its charter of
positive values.
What positive results can we show for the millions of
Rand appropriated for this purpose every year? The simple
answer is: Very little, if anything. Political
correctness and expediency seem to be the major culprits
responsible for this dismal performance.
Following the recent xenophobic violence in the Tshwane
area, DA Leader Mmusi Maimane made the following plea:
The DA strongly condemns xenophobia and xenophobic
violence and we urge all South Africans to do the
same. The hatred and intolerance towards foreign
African nationals that has flared up in areas of
Gauteng is morally contemptible and self-defeating.
While irrationality can be blamed for some of the
xenophobic behaviour we see, we cannot lose sight of the
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fact that there are some objective factors that generate
resentment among both South Africans and immigrants that
serve as triggers for violence. For instance, there are
growing ramblings amongst South Africans in the townships
that foreign nationals put severe strain on amenities and
services such as public schools, clinics, hospitals and
housing.
Scrambling for jobs also always comes up as a big factor.
With 9 million jobless and 17 million people on social
grants this is hardly surprising. The very weak economic
growth in the country is not helping. The economy needs
to grow by at least 5 percent or more a year, as
envisaged by the National Development Plan, to create
millions of jobs. Most people who have a job, hardly ever
worry about who is the country.
However, even such productive growth will not be enough
if illegal immigrants continue to flood the country. Let
me defer to the DA Leader again:
The DA does not support illegal immigrants. The DA‘s
position is that anyone who meets the legal
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criteria; is prepared to play by the rules of our
Constitution, and who seeks a better life for
themselves, should be welcome in South Africa.
However, it must be recognised that with the best will in
the world, South Africa does not have the capacity or the
resources to take in all immigrants, legal or illegal
from the African continent or any other continent.
During the recent violence in the Tshwane townships we
learned also something, that there was also a ‗turf war‘
going on between two groups of foreign nationals from
different countries who repair vehicles. These clashes
were also willy-nilly characterised as xenophobic
violence. These factors, real or imagined must be
confronted head-on and addressed as they will go on and
never change unless we do something about them. We dare
not shy away from them.
Following the xenophobic violence of 2008 and 2015,
Parliament appointed Ad Hoc Committees to probe the
causes of the violence against foreign nationals. These
committees, constituted at some significant cost,
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completed their assignments and made recommendations to
Parliament regarding the actions to be taken to address
the scourge. Very little seems to have been done
regarding the implementation of these recommendations.
The DA calls on Parliament to institute an urgent review
of the recommendations made in 2008 and 2015; establish
which have been implemented and facilitate the
implementation of those that are outstanding, as a matter
of urgency.
The DA believes that the recent incidents of xenophobic
violence and anti-foreigner sentiments are consequences
of a failure of the ANC government to implement the
recommendations set out in the 2008 and 2015 reports.
Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Ms H O HLOPHE: Thank you, House Chair. The EFF believes
very strongly that no black person can ever be a
foreigner in an African soil. These division we now see
in our society are as a result of over hundred years of
exploitations of Africans by the real foreign exploiters
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who too from our people everything. They took land. They
took ...
Isizulu:
... izinkomo zobaba zemuka, Sihlalo weNdlu.
English:
The foundations of South Africa as we have to know it are
premised on the super exploitation of African labour from
within this country and across the continent. They came;
they are still coming looking for the livelihoods; from
within this country, from the central and the Southern
Africa. They followed in the footsteps of their
grandfathers, uncles, fathers along the road or the
railway line to the city of gold.
The current debacle pertaining to unemployment and
equality is wrongfully placed and blame on African
brothers and sisters; and black people from the
developing world. We are just fighting over crams. The
continuing violence against African nationals is very
disingenuous and is a platform for black on black
violence.
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he failure of society ought to be put at the door of the
ANC. The ANC has failed to transform the lives of South
Africans. In the midst of attempting to confront economic
strongholds against black people, white monopoly capital
has been left untouched.
It is the ANC that negotiated itself into power on the
basis of leaving the exploitative structure of the South
African economy unchanged. It is the ANC which as
presided over massive unemployment of our people, leaving
over 40% of the young people eligible to work without
work.
It is the ANC which has for the past 23 years refused to
force the very same mining companies which have exploited
our people for over a century to process our minerals in
this country; to create more jobs instead of exporting
raw material to the developed countries.
So there can be no harmonious living together in this
country if the economy continues to be in the very same
hands of a tiny foreign minority which has plundered our
nation for centuries. There can be no harmonious living
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together if that tiny foreign minority still owns more
than 80% of the land; and the ANC is okay about this
whole situation.
There can be no harmonious living together until South
Africa truly belongs to her people: the dispossessed, the
unemployed and the landless. The ANC must give our people
land not tomorrow but today.
We must direct our anger to those who refuse to let go of
their loot. Those who own our economy and enjoy alone the
fruits of what is there to offer; but we must realize
that there is no defeating white monopoly capital without
defeating the ANC first. The ANC must fall; only the EFF
can free this country from the tentacles of the white
monopoly capitalism. I thank you Chair.
The MINISTER OF POLICE: Madam Chairperson, hon members,
ladies and gentlemen, a renowned African scholar, Ngugi
wa Thiong‘o says and I quote, ―It is the final triumph of
a system of domination when the dominated start singing
its virtues.‖ Our fundamental premise in this timely
debate is that, it must be properly historicised and
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located squarely in the brutal and inhumane legacy of
colonialism and apartheid – the twin evils of what has
also been described, as colonialism of a special type.
This vicious system driven by the despicable expansionist
ambitions of the capitalist system, not only dehumanises
people by making them feel inferior and self-loathing,
but also reproduces the colonising and oppressive
ideology of the slave master in the mind and world view
of its victims. It is this tragic triumph of the master
at the expense of the slave, the colonised and the
oppressed that Ngugi alludes to. In other words ladies
and gentlemen, the replication and mutation of the
dominant ideology in the mind of the oppressed,
especially the internalising of self-hatred that often
finds callous expression through violence, the oppressed
reproduces in the master‘s ideological diction, and like
the master, aims this violence at the black body, the
African body – the most denigrated body in human history.
The Pan-Africanist thinker Marcus Garvey summarises it
this way and I quote:
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Whilst others might free the body, none but
ourselves can free the mind... The man who is not
able to develop and use his mind is bound to be the
slave of the other man who uses his mind.
House Chair, it is a fact that even after colonialism and
apartheid has now officially ended, the vestiges remain
to define and prolong the trauma and trials of our times.
Yesterday‘s nightmarish hour is still with us. Power
relations and class relations in our society in the main,
still mirror the horror some thought we had long banished
from collective memory.
And of course, much to our dismay, what still stares at
us with eyes of fire, are the terrors of colonialism,
apartheid and capitalist exploitation, the legacy of the
imperialist‘s bloodletting and albatross of Eurocentric
education. Certainly, it is premature and incorrect to
think we have now reached a postracism and postclass
exploitation dispensation.
On the contrary, we are now reaping the whirlwind –
thanks to those for whom were nothing, but children of a
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lesser God. Lianne Mulder, then a Master of Philosophy
student at the University of the West Indies in Barbados,
assets this point:
Following Marxist logic then, the class element was
the overarching, dominant factor in creating
colonised education, but I argue that it would not
have worked without religious and racist ideologies
alongside it. These ideologies could on the one hand
justify the capitalist exploitation of people of
colour and their lands and resources, and on the
other hand distract the working classes from their
mutual goals and interests, by having them focus on
religious and racial differences. Class
consciousness was thus significantly obstructed by
false consciousness.
In the year in which we celebrate the centenary of OR
Tambo, who well understood the national and international
character of our struggle and forged ties with many
peoples of the world, especially on the African
continent, the ANC is disturbed by the attacks on fellow
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Africans by other Africans. Surely, this cannot be done
in the name of our beloved land.
We condemn such acts of barbarity with all the contempt
they deserve. We regard them as one of the highest and
appalling manifestations of mimicking the erstwhile
master and doing of his dirty divide and rule job rooted
as it is, in the African‘s tragic self-hate syndrome. Sad
as it is, some amongst us hate our fellow brothers and
sisters from other parts of Africa. Over 300 years of
brutality and subjugation have left indelible scars and
mental slavery. Now is the time for our minds to be free
as Bantu Steven Biko urged us. We will fight afrophobia
with all in our power. And also call our brothers in
other parts of Africa to be part of the solution and not
the worsening of an already volatile situation. Illinformed and prejudiced readings of the South African
situation can only help perpetuate the erstwhile master
narrative and threatens the broad solidarity and the deep
historical ties that bind all of us as Africans.
The police will continue to arrest and deal with anyone
who breaks the law by attacking a fellow African, looting
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and acts of intimidation. To date the SA Police Service,
Saps, has arrested close to 140 people on various charges
relating to violent attacks on our brothers and sisters
from other parts of Africa.
We are aware that of late, genuine protests by citizens
get hijacked by opportunistic elements often bent on
criminality and other nefarious objectives.
It is imperative that even as one unconditionally
condemns afrophobic, xenophobic attacks and attitudes,
some caution is taken. We must locate afrophobia and
xenophobia in a social and historical context. Scholars
such as Shose Kessi and Kopano Ratele, correctly argue
that we must locate this scourge within South Africa‘s
historical, economic and political conditions, apartheid
colonialism and the wrenching jaws of globalisation.
Ratele‘s summation in 2015 still rings true when he said:
Till the vulnerability of poor black foreigners is
seen in the light of the economic and social
psychological vulnerability of poor black locals,
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there is little light in the tunnel. In all
likelihood, the violence we have witnessed emerges
not simply from xenophobic attitudes but from
multiple failures, socioeconomic conditions, and
social psychological vulnerabilities that have
thrown together poor locals and foreigners in
oppressive life circumstances.
As the government, we recognise and respect the right of
South Africans to rise against the proliferation of drugs
and other substances in our communities. Like they have
done before in the days of the liberation struggle, and
protested against beer halls and shebeens, our people
have reached genuine levels of desperation and feel as if
all is lost. Our people are right to fight for the end of
this lawlessness that is ravaging our communities, family
lives and having a negative impact on our economy.
Notwithstanding these legitimate concerns, the ANC
government condemns unconditionally any attempts to
target certain foreign nationals, the destruction of
property and threats to life in the fight against drugs
and related forms of criminality.
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We cannot pretend that simply because our citizens are
angry, and justly so, it is correct to murder, to loot
and to intimidate other human beings who happen to be our
brothers and sisters from other parts of the continent,
and certainly not in our name, not under the watch of the
ANC government. [Interjections.]
IsiZulu:
Mnu S P MHLONGO: Sihlalo, ngicela ukukhuluma.
Nk M S KHAWULA: Sihlalo, uNjomane ucela ukukhuluma.
English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order, hon
Minister can you please take your seat. Hon members, I
have recognised you but I would just like to ask all of
us to appreciate that this debate is important and other
nationals, particularly those who have been affected are
watching at how, we ourselves, reflect on this debate and
I think it is important to take note of that. Hon member,
what is the point of order?
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Mr S P MHLONGO: Madam Chair, I rise on the point of
privilege. I want to know the honesty and the sincerity
of the Minister who allowed the smuggling of police to
this House to assault the hon members of the EFF? How
honest and loyal is he, to the fact of his ...?
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (M A T Didiza): Order hon member!
Order hon members! Hon Mhlongo, hon Mhlongo, can you take
your seat. Order! Hon member you should have requested to
ask a question, then I would have asked the Minister
whether he would take your question, I would therefore
not put the question to the Minister.
The MINISTER OF POLICE: Hon members, it cannot be right
that a true patriotic citizen protesting against crime
would in the process commit a crime. Why would any
sensible South African betray his or her country‘s
Constitution and good name in this manner? That is why we
are convinced that in the main, it is criminals who
engage in such reckless and shameful behaviour.
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Following the afrophobic, xenophobic violence incidents
in 2008, the SA Human Rights Commission found that
perceptions and the reality of corruption and
indifference by some officials in our government, was one
of the main triggers. Surely as government we must
swiftly address this betrayal of our people by a few
civil servants and some individuals.
Hon members, the ANC will not sit idly and watch our
country trodden on by criminals. We have a plan and we
are on the move. The Interministerial Committee on
Migration established by the President has set up a
Technical Task Team, which in turn came up with five key
strategic approvals and targets whose implementation
began in 2015.
Code-named Operation Fiela, the SAPS-led plan yielded
great results. These include; the arrest of 265 suspects
on public violence charges, the tracing of 423 suspects
wanted for various crimes, the arrest of over 240 illegal
immigrants, the seizure of over 40 bags of dagga and
other drugs etc.
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Currently, the Justice, Crime Prevention and Security,
JCPS, cluster is reviewing this strategy, and will
implement Phase 2 of Operation Fiela, code-named
Operation Dineo. Also, the JCPS cluster has adopted a
Multidisciplinary Integrated National Action Plan to
reassert the authority of the state and ensure that that
those left displaced by afrophobic violence enjoy a
measure of protection from the state in line with the
human rights tenets of our Constitution.
As the JCPS cluster, we are also adopting a proactive
approach, in line with the SAPS‘s Back to Basics
strategy. More police will be visible for patrols and
swift response in key identified crime hot spots.
I also wish to draw hon members to issues of spatial
patterns and the legacy of apartheid‘s town and regional
planning which was premised on sharpening superficial
divisions of race and ethnicity, as well as ensuring that
black people were kept outside of the cities – save for
when they were needed for cheap labour on the mines,
factories and so on.
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We strongly contend that as government, we possibly also
have to look at how best to integrate foreign nationals
from other parts of the continent, thereby advancing
social cohesion.
Finally, the ANC government will never abandon the
peoples of Africa irrespective of the stamps on their
passports. Our sovereignty and control of borders will
continue to be in line with the ethos of our Constitution
and the rule of law.
Ours is a history moulded and solidified in the crucible
of our common struggles against slavery, colonialism,
racism and the vestiges of neocolonial violence. Our ties
with the rest of Africa are lasting covenants, ambers and
emblems towards a peaceful and prosperous Africa.
The ANC government will never abandon countless citizens
of our land, irrespective of race and ethnicity, when
they cry out for help, as drugs and alcohol threaten
their livelihoods and our social fabric. Government will
do all it can to bring about peace and safety in our
society. Our people know very well the sinister
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ideological forces that push drugs in our society. The
evil and ideological intent is to derail the
socioeconomic progress and in fact, kill our nation. It
is in that context that our people‘s rage must be
understood, but never condoned once it tramples on the
rights of others.
I wish to refer to the wisdom of the leader of our
glorious movement, uKhongolose, uBaba u-Oliver Reginald
Tambo on the occasion of the commemoration of the 20th
year of the adoption of the Universal Declaration of
Human Rights on 1 June 1968, when he said and I quote:
Our fight is for justice. We cannot cease until we
have won, as we will in time. And in achieving human
rights for all men in Southern Africa we will be
making our contribution to the fight for human
rights and freedom the world over.
Certainly, crime must fall and xenophobia must fall.
Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen. [Applause.]
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon members, by
agreement between parties, I will ask the UDM to take the
slot of the IFP and then the IFP will take the slot of
the UDM accordingly. Hon Majeke.
Ms N C MAJEKE: Hon Chairperson and hon members, the
recent upsurge of ugly community violence has cast a
shameful light on South Africa. As a country, we have
emerged from a struggle that ushered in a Constitution
that ensures that universal rights are applicable to all
human beings, across the board.
We need to improve our system of managing immigrants and
refugees like all other countries in our neighbourhood
do. Our criminal justice system needs to be clean and to
treat criminal activities as such, whether engaged in by
a South African or a foreigner. Police must, at all
times, do their work and remain free of corruption. It
may also be prudent to consider rotating police officials
among police stations, as it is alleged they sometimes
collude with drug dealers.
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Our state machinery should regulate, monitor and manage
the labour regime better, and effectively. The
inclination to abuse foreign nationals for cheap labour
should be avoided, as this results in unwarranted
violence. We must improve our immigration control system
so that, amongst others, asylum seekers are processed
quickly. Those who do not qualify for refugee status
should be directed back home, with immediate effect. We
must undo the climate of hatred against foreign nationals
and infuse the notion that immigrant communities are also
entitled to equal legal protection, like all South
Africans.
As a nation, we must never abandon the notions of
solidarity that drove the struggle against apartheid and
that were based on claims for universal humanity.
IsiXhosa:
Sihlalo, ngamanye amaxesha zikhona iingxelo ezimane
zifika, ezenza ukuba abantu baxabane. Le nto ithi ...
English:
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... reports have been made that, in some cases, they
approach landlords and are granted lease agreements.
Later, however, they fail to pay rent ...
IsiXhosa:
... bangafuni ukuphuma, bangafuni nokuba umninimzi
angene kumhlaba wakhe. Ezi zinto noko azithandeki kuba
zenza ukuba abantu bethu babhenele emagqwetheni ngeemali
abangenazo.
English:
Nevertheless, we must make the call to everyone to stop
the attacks against foreign nationals. In our different
associations and organisations, we must stand with other
communities to stop the violence against foreign
nationals. I thank you.
Mr M L SHELEMBE: Hon Chairperson; hon members; my leader,
the president of the NFP, our Constitution, which we
adopted 20 years ago as the guiding document around which
our society is ordered, has been hailed as a fine example
of a modern democracy. Fundamental human rights are
entrenched and clear guidelines are laid down for
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transparent and accountable governance. Yet, despite the
liberal provisions of our Constitution, we find a lack of
harmony between South Africans and foreign nationals.
This lack of harmony flares up on occasion and we call it
xenophobia. We condemn the violence and, once the
situation is brought under control, we go about in a
business-as-usual manner. We keep on ignoring the fact
that the lack of harmony continues to fester under the
surface waiting to flare up anywhere at any time, again
and again. The questions we have to ask ourselves are,
Why is there this lack of harmony? What is it that drives
South Africans to the point where they would not hesitate
to express their dissatisfaction in the most brutal of
ways – by killing others?
The NFP believes that the answer is complex. First and
foremost, however, South Africans have no faith in the
government‘s ability to implement its policy on
immigration. We have to face some unpleasant truths.
Corruption and inadequate border controls over the past
22 years have opened the floodgates of illegal immigrants
who have settled in South Africa with impunity and who
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are now competing with the poorest of our poor for scarce
social and economic resources.
The NFP accepts that we have international obligations to
shelter those who are in need of asylum. We have a moral
obligation to assist refugees who have fled political
violence. We also accept that South Africa stands to
benefit from immigrants who bring with them scarce skills
and investments, and we believe that the overwhelming
majority of South Africans share this view.
In our analysis, the root of the problem lies with
illegal and undocumented foreign nationals and those
foreign nationals who abuse the hospitality extended to
them by South Africans. Human and drug trafficking is
high on the list of grievances that South Africans have
when venting their anger and expressing dissatisfaction
about foreign nationals, as we have seen recently in
Johannesburg and Pretoria.
The NFP believes that it will take a long time and
concerted intervention by government to address the lack
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of harmony between South Africans and foreign nationals.
[Time expired.]
Mr M A MNCWANGO: Hon Chairperson, on Friday, this House
celebrated 23 years of constitutional democracy in South
Africa. In terms of our Constitution, both citizens and
foreign nationals enjoy legislative protection. Ours is,
in fact, one of the few Constitutions in the world in
which this is so.
Yet, on the streets of South Africa, a vastly different
scenario is unfolding. Xenophobia continues to simmer,
and explodes perennially on our streets and in our
communities. It has never been adequately and resolutely
dealt with. There is no doubt that this is contrary to
the protection offered by the Constitution.
The challenge, therefore, is multipronged and must be
dealt with as such. Considered effort must be made from
basic and adult education levels in which both our
children and adults are taught that the rights they so
enjoy under our Constitution are applicable to and depend
on their, in turn, respecting the rights of others. Mob
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justice must not be allowed to take root. Its underlying
causality, which can be traced back to our citizenry not
accepting or coming to terms with the principle of
equality before the law, must be addressed in our
communities.
The allegations that are often raised centring around
alleged criminal activities by foreign nationals,
including narcotics, the trafficking of persons, and
prostitution, must be left for the police to investigate
and make arrests, where necessary. Mob justice or
vigilantism does nothing, in fact, but erode the rule of
law and must not be allowed to take root. The SAPS has a
responsibility to ensure that reported cases of
criminality by any person, foreign or national, are
investigated and that criminal elements in our society
are removed.
On the question of foreign nationals taking local jobs,
there remains no evidence in support of these
allegations. They are incendiary and without basis. This
must be clearly communicated to all South Africans:
Violence and misguided anger of such a nature will do
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nothing but destroy the very fabric of the democratic and
free society we are trying so hard to achieve.
In conclusion, this topic for debate raises issues that
require urgent solutions. Allowing them to fester without
resolution will only further entrench such societal
conduct in South Africa, and all who live within her
borders will be the poorer for it. I thank you.
Dr C P MULDER: Hon Chairperson, the FF Plus strongly
condemns the xenophobic attacks that took place recently.
As recently as yesterday, it happened in
Olievenhoutbosch, in Pretoria, once again. There is no
reason for citizens to attack foreign nationals. It
should not happen and we should not allow that.
The hon Minister of Police made a speech this afternoon.
One of my problems with the ANC seems to be that you
cannot go into the future always focusing on the past,
because it means you are going into the future with your
back facing the future. The Minister gave us a lesson
about white monopoly capital, about master and slave,
about imperialism, etc, etc. With all due respect,
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Minister, your video with your O sole mio on the Nkandla
fire pool was better.
Where does this phenomenon of xenophobia come from? It
didn‘t just happen overnight. There is a long history on
why this happened. For 22 years, our borders and our
ports of entry were misused and people were allowed to
come into our country. Now, at Home Affairs, we are
trying to take the necessary steps to do what was
expected of us in the first instance.
The second problem is this. Foreign nationals who are
here are doing their own thing in the way that they like
to do things, and our citizens are complaining and saying
there is crime involved. Now, if there is crime involved,
it should never be necessary for our citizens to take the
law into their own hands. Our police services should
handle these matters early enough so that it never
becomes necessary for our own citizens to say that they
have to do something about it because our government
fails us in that respect. Look at what happened
yesterday.
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Afrikaans:
In Olievenhoutbosch het dit begin as ‘n betoging oor ‘n
gebrek aan dienslewering. Dit is wat gebeur het, na
bewering. Die mense sê hulle is kwaad want daar is nie
dienste gelewer deur die plaaslike en provinsiale
regerings nie. Dit was nie lank nie toe ontwikkel dit in
‘n geplunder van buitelanders se besighede.
English:
Suddenly, now foreigners‘ businesses are looted. How is
that ... How can we allow that to happen? What kind of
message are we sending out with that?
Afrikaans:
Die rede, onder andere, is omdat die ekonomie in hierdie
land nie groei nie. Hier word nie werk geskep nie. Die
mense daar buite kry swaar en dit gaan nie makliker nie.
Inteendeel, dit word elke dag moeiliker.
English:
The hon Kenye introduced the subject for discussion and
with all due respect to the hon Kenye, there is nothing
to move. There is no motion on the Table, it is a subject
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for discussion. She referred to the Freedom Charter, yes
– but then you must take it seriously when you say that
South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black and
white. That is what the Freedom Charter actually says. We
should then take the views of all those live in it
seriously, as well. It is not only the ANC that has tha
answers to all the questions in South Africa.
Afrikaans:
Wat die EFF betref, ongelukkig ...
English:
... it was not necessary to make this a racial debate,
once again. This is much more serious than that. Please
don‘t do that. Let‘s take the matter seriously and send
out the message that we will not tolerate this kind of
xenophobia. Let‘s make a success of our country. Let‘s do
the right thing.
The police services should do what they need to do. Home
Affairs need to do what they need to do. Most
importantly, however, we need to get the economy growing.
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Mr N S MATIASE: House Chair, on a point of order ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Thank you, hon
member, your time is up. I‘m not sure that ... No, no.
[Interjections.] Order! Hon member, you can‘t direct the
programme. The member‘s time had expired – unless he
would like to take your question. [Interjections.] Order,
hon member!
Mr N S MATIASE: House Chair, I rise on a point of order:
Can you instruct the member to sit down, please?
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): No, I can‘t,
because his time was already up. So, I would have to
request him ...
Dr C P MULDER: [Inaudible.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): You can take a
seat.
Hon member?
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Mr N S MATIASE: Thank you, House Chair. Would the member
take a question?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon Mulder, would
you take a question?
Dr C P MULDER: House Chair, it‘s difficult to take a
question after my time has expired but I will take a
question, yes.
Mr N S MATIASE: Do you think that you have the right to
tell Africans what to do, amongst themselves, about
internal affairs? [Interjections.]
Dr C P MULDER: No, I‘ve got a surprise for the hon
member. I am also an African – not only you! [Applause.]
Mr M G P LEKOTA: Thank you, Chairperson. The battle
against xenophobia, the hatred for foreigners must start
with us, reminding ourselves and our children that our
forebears often said:
Sesotho:
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Motse ho ahwa wa morapedi; and also said: Metse ho tjha e
mabapi.
English:
When you have a neighbor, the problems of your neighbor
are also your problems. South Africa has got neighbors.
We must start in the schools and teach our children that
our neighbors are as valuable to us as we are valuable to
them. When they say ―Metse ho tjha e mabapi‖ it mean:
When there is a problem in one family the neighbors are
affected; and you must understand those problems are
going to spill over into you. It is a fire. The house is
on fire; therefore the next house will go on fire.
When you educate children this way they begin to
appreciate the importance of living with other people. It
is for this reason that right at the beginning, our
forbears will then say:
Sesotho:
O nhlomphe ke tle ke o hlomphe.
Isixhosa:
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Undoyike ukuze nam ndikoyike. Into ethetha ukuthi
kufuneka undihloniphe – mamela kaloku awazinto,
undihloniphe khona ukuze ndikuhloniphe.
English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order! Hon member
lets allow the speaker to finish.
Mr M G P LEKOTA: I don‘t know what the problem is, what
is the problem?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Order! Hon Lekota
can you proceed with your speech.
Mr M G P LEKOTA: Thank you.
Isixhosa:
Undoyike ukuze ndikoyike.
English:
If you respect me, you assist me. You teach me to respect
you. We cannot treat our neighbors, our foreigners with
contempt; and expect that they must themselves show us
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respect. In the first place ... [Interjections.] Excuse
me.
Mr M A DIRKS: Chairperson, on a point of order, the
speaker on the podium says that we must respect him so
that he can respect us. So we want to tell him that he
must first respect the President, before we can respect
him. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms A T Didiza): Hon member, that‘s
not a Point of Order. I don‘t think you heard the
idiomatic expression of what was being said. Hon members,
order! Hon members, once again can I plead with you. The
nature of the debate requires all of us to show the
seriousness that it deserve.
As I said earlier, it is not only South Africans that are
watching this programme; but even those who have been
affected by such violence. And I think it is important
that we do what is necessary to accord the respect that
this debate requires.
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Mr M Q NDLOZI: Yes Chair, on a point of order, I think
the hon member who has just spoken must be called to
order because ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (MS AT Didiza): Hon member, I have
already ruled on the member.
Mr M Q NDLOZI: It is a new order Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (MS AT Didiza): In respect of what
now?
Mr M Q NDLOZI: He is eating a gum in the House. He is
eating the chappies and he think we are going to respect
him. Look at him.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms AT Didiza): Hon member Ndlozi,
can you please take a seat. You know that that‘s not a
Point of Order. Hon Lekota, you can proceed.
Mr M G P LEKOTA: Thank you, Chairperson. The xenophobia
that we are talking about, this hatred of foreigners is
about South Africans. I ‗m talking about the point: South
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Africans ill-treating people from other countries who are
in our country; or who come to our country. I talk to the
issue that we South Africans must teach ...
[Interjections.] [Time expired.] Is my time finished?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms AT Didiza): Yes, we did factor
in the other time. Order hon members! Can we please allow
hon Meshoe to take his space? [Applause.]
Rev K R J MESHOE: House Chairperson, despite summits,
conferences, and the many initiatives and programmes the
government has initiated to encourage social cohesion and
nation-building, deep divisions between community members
are still glaringly apparent and prejudice in its many
forms, remains a key concern.
Stubborn racist attitudes from both whites and blacks,
and the stereotyping of foreign nationals, undermine
harmonious co-existence and respect for those who look
different to them.
The ACDP regrets and is saddened by the harsh and unfair
treatment of foreign nationals in our country. We find
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these attacks and looting of their businesses deplorable,
and condemn them in the strongest possible terms. We
believe this behaviour is indicative of how violent,
uncompassionate and insensitive our society has become.
The ACDP believes that there are a few things that the
government can do to stop xenophobic attacks on innocent
foreign nationals who have come to legally seek refuge
and employment in our country. They include firstly, that
government should be seen to be promoting harmonious coexistence and respect for the rights of all persons,
including foreign nationals and unborn babies.
The right to life, particularly of the unborn and most
vulnerable in society must be protected by the
government. Secondly, government should investigate
reasons and excuses that are used to justify attacks on
foreign nationals.
If one looks at where most foreign nationals are
attacked, one would discover that it is primarily in the
townships and the government should look at the reasons
why this is the case. Many township residents, for
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example, have consistently complained that foreign-owned
spaza shops are subsidised, leaving them unable to
compete because their own government refuses to subsidise
them in order to level the playing field.
The ACDP urges the government to look into this
allegation as a matter of urgency. Unity and peaceful coexistence among locals and foreign nationals is possible.
Take the example of Hillbrow – somebody said Hillbrow. In
Hillbrow you do not have the kind of attacks on foreign
nationals as we have in many of our townships. You have
people there working side by side and intolerance is very
low, and friends of intimidation are not found.
The ACDP believes that the rule of law should not
discriminate on matters of criminality. Criminals must be
punished, whether or not they are foreign nationals or
South Africans.
Lastly, if the government is to succeed in promoting
harmonious co-existence and the respect for the rights of
all including foreign nationals, then they should also
among other things shut down the ever increasing number
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of brothels in our communities; because these brothels
serve as centres for the proliferation of illegal drugs
and had claimed the lives of thousands of children and
torn many communities apart.
Mr S MOKGALAPA: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. The DA
condemns any act of violence and xenophobia, along with
any form of discrimination. We support South Africa‘s
role as a continental leader and stakeholder, and believe
that legal immigration can contribute to economic growth,
skills development and job creation.
We also believe that the problem of foreign nationals
residing in South Africa illegally should be addressed,
but in a manner that respects the fundamental human
rights and dignity of those immigrants.
The African Union‘s Agenda 2063 envisions a prosperous
Africa with inclusive economic growth and sustainable
development. It integrated the continent, and a continent
that is politically united. It envisions an Africa of
good governance, democracy, and respect for human rights,
justice and the rule of law.
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Chairperson, our Constitution shares these values and
principles. It states in the preamble to the Constitution
that South Africa belongs to all who live in it. This is
an important feature of our Constitution, rightly
enshrined in the Bill of Rights.
However, the significant question we need to ask
ourselves is this: Does the actions of today‘s government
show that they believe that South Africa truly belongs to
all who live in it? The recent increase of violence
against foreign nationals implores us to reflect on this
question, and I am afraid that the answer to this
question is a resounding, No.
Recent events has shown clearly that South Africa‘s
foreign policy falls short of achieving Afro—optimism and
Pan-Africanism. Our government remains reactive, rather
than proactive, in addressing the underlying causes of
the growing hostility towards foreigners.
One of the key issues in the hostility mandate is to
provide jobs for 8,9 million unemployed South Africans
and particularly for the lost generation, the millions of
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young people who have been abandoned by the ANC
government.
Madam Chair, inefficient practices at the Department of
Home Affairs is compounding the problem of illegal
immigration, as many foreigners wishing to enter the
country legally are faced with almost insurmountable
bureaucracy.
In many ways, Home Affairs creates illegal immigrants
through their own inefficiency. It is also a fact that
our borders are too porous, and the government believes
that the establishment of a Border Management Authority
will solve this problem.
This is yet another example of the ANC trying to
legislate their way out of a problem, rather than fixing
the existing mechanisms. Not only is the current proposal
unconstitutional, it is highly impractical and will only
lead to a waste of state funds. Xenophobia is irrational
and immoral and should be rejected by each and every
South African.
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Mutual co-existence and individual legal freedom of
movement should be protected as enshrined in our
Constitution. It is worrying that the President only last
week said, and I quote, that:
We appeal to our people not to allow the actions of
a few criminals to turn them against their brothers
and sisters who are here legally.
The President should know better because this statement
could easily be interpreted as tactics go ahead for
violent attacks against foreigners who are here
illegally.
Madam Chair, it is becoming increasingly clear that there
is a massive gap between what the ANC states their
foreign policy is, and what it actually is. For example,
by ignoring a high court order to arrest Sudanese
President, Omar al-Bashir, and by unconstitutionally
withdrawing from the International Criminal Court, ICC,
the ANC government does not support a human rights based
foreign policy. It is now becoming clear that the ANC
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also does not respect the promotion of human rights
nationally.
We implore on all South Africans to do what this
government has failed to do, and to show a sense of
solidarity and respect for the dignity of our fellow
human beings and to say no to xenophobic and to protect
our brand South Africa. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr L M NTSHAYISA: Hon House Chairperson, hon Mandla Galo
has just been saying to me that this topic is not an easy
one. It has got a lot in it. He just said it can be
started from the family unit, the neighbourhood and so
on. The rise of regional Afro-pessimism, disdain and
intolerance against foreign nationals induces a sense of
shame to the legacy of our freedom fighters. For
instance, we have got human rights stalwart in our place
by the name of Maggie Resha, who was born in Matatiele in
the Eastern Cape next to KwaZulu-Natal. The AIC enjoins
all South Africa to exploit the proceeds of a young
democracy positively. We can afford to defy the current
regime, but let us not spit ridicule to the founding
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values of our Constitution. In its preamble, our
Constitution is very clear that we must and I quote:
Respect those who have worked to build and develop
our country; and believe that South Africa belongs
to all who live in it, united in our diversity.
Hon House Chairperson, Maggie Resha, for instance, our
stalwart from Matatiele was exiled in Tanzania in one of
these African countries, where she remained active in her
involvement in the fight against apartheid. Her quest for
freedom heralded into a constitutional settlement, which
envisions a society that is founded on the values of
human dignity, ubuntu; and a global pact for justice and
regional integration.
South Africa has signed global accords on justice and
peace. Foreigners assembling in South Africa are entitled
to work; to trade; to have a profession; and enjoy social
amenities in this country. We have pledged our hearts to
the human rights culture; Maggie Resha implored us not to
subdue the struggle of the stalwarts. The paradox,
however, in this debate is that the government has failed
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to absorb young people in the labour market. It is this
neglect that has largely triggered Afro-pessimism. We are
told that foreigners inhibit local competition and take
local‘s employment opportunities. The rights of
foreigners in South Africa are frustrated by our
government that has no regard for the talent of the young
ones ... [Time expired.]
Mr M A PLOUAMMA: Hon House Chairperson, to kill and
intimidate foreign nationals will not help us
socioeconomic problems. We must learn to face our
hardships with humanity and treat our visitors with
respect and the attitude we expect when we are in their
countries.
Hon House Chair, some of these foreign nationals are
contributing positively into our economy. We need to move
away from the premise that they are here to take our
jobs. Be as it may, it‘s fellow South Africans who are
employing these fellow Africans. Hon House Chair, to
attain this democracy it would have been impossible if
countries like Zimbambwe and Zambia and the intervention
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of imminent groups which included former President of
Nigeria, Obasanjo, did not play their role.
Our democracy is a product of many sacrifices here and
abroad. We should never take for granted the role played
by African countries and the world. Most of our leaders
like O R Tambo, former President Thabo Mbeki and others
were protected by foreign governments during the time of
the struggle.
Hon House Chair, our people are emotional and fragile due
to our history. As leaders, we need to guide them with
dignity and watch what we say. Most of our people are
desperate and unemployed, lacking basic infrastructure.
However, on the same token, we need to give them hope,
practical steps on how they can reach their potential,
develop a caring government not infested with corruption
and bribes. We should make sure that at the local level
they are listened to irrespective of political
affiliation. We should be proactive move, away from this
impression created by the elite of survival of the
strongest.
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Hon House Chair, our people are watching the looting on a
scale never seen before by the very same people they have
trusted. When you have a President who breaks the law,
what are we teaching our people? When you have a Minister
whose allegedly involve in rhino poaching, what are we
teaching our people? [Interjections.] When you have
councillors who forget their own community, this lead to
lawlessness and desperation while we plead with our
people to exercise restrain. The time has come for
leaders of moral virtue and inspiring values to take
charge. I thank you.
Mr L R MBINDA: Hon House Chair, South Africa belongs to
Africans. It belongs to those who pay loyalty and
allegiance to even this country, not everybody who is
living here is allegiant and loyal in South Africa. We
need to correct this matter. We need to educate our
people and take them out of the danger of being deceived
into losing sight of the objective of our struggle.
We cannot expect our people to live in harmony with
others when they themselves are not in harmony with
themselves. The socioeconomic challenge that is
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confronting our people on a daily basis is inhumane and
thus dictates that there is bound to be friction amongst
our people. Our people were told that there are free. I
think that was 23 years ago and they still see themselves
the only ones in informal settlements, landless, poor and
less of human beings than others.
Chairperson, we as the Pan-African family, we have been
called names over the years when we predicated some of
these things and prescribed the Pan-Africanism as a
solution to all of this. All these borders across Africa
are not natural and what is more problematic is that they
are part of the entire plan to colonise and disorganise
us. We have African governance in almost 54 countries in
Africa for two to three decades, but we are still living
within the colonial plan of borders. Africa is one and no
one is more African than the other or less. As South
Africans we knew how Africans were involved in some of
these other things. The apartheid masters were cracking
the whip on us and we ran to African countries for help.
Today, we see thieves and thugs attacking our fellow
African brothers and sisters claiming to be xenophobic
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while Europeans are living in peace and luxury,
benefiting largely from our means of production. As
African people we are land owners not labourers as we are
made to be. The people who took our jobs are those who
took our land. The same Europeans are the one‘s who are
fuelling the fight by seeking for cheap labour from our
fellow African brothers and sisters.
The issue here is the struggle for the ownership of
resources, but it is misdirected. Lastly, as PAC will
continue to condemn criminality irrespective of race,
creed or colour.
Mr Z N MBHELE: House Chairperson, the English
philosopher, John Locke, who laid much of the foundation
of modern liberal thought, wrote that the primary duty of
any government was to ensure the security of the nation
and the protection of individual rights. This is how a
government would care for its people. In return for the
fulfilment of this duty of the government, the people
would reciprocate in this social contract by being lawabiding, which would promote a society of harmonious
coexistence.
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On many fronts of governance and state delivery, the ANC
government has failed in fulfilling this duty, showing
that it does not care about the people. In so failing,
the ANC has broken the social contracts that underpin the
relationship between citizens and the government. This
brokenness is starkly evident, and has been for many
years, in the area of border security and policing. As a
result of its misgovernance and mismanagement, the ANC
has been creating and piling up the dry tinder that we
have seen become kindled into the bonfires of unrest and
xenophobic violence over the years.
The seeds of these xenophobic flare-ups were sown in the
inability of the ANC to create jobs for almost 9 million
unemployed people in this country and also in the
weakening of border security, creating porous and poorly
controlled borders that make illegal in-migration
virtually impossible to police and curtail.
Dr M S MOTSHEKGA: Point of order.
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The HOUSE CHAIRPESON (Mr C T Frolick): Why are you
rising, hon member? In terms of which rule are you rising
on?
Dr M S MOTSHEKGA: Hon Chair, I wanted to know ...
[Interjections.]
The DA MEMBERS: Which rule?
The HOUSE CHAIRPESON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon
members!
Dr M S MOTSHEKGA: I wanted to know whether this is not
the forum where he must ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member that
is not point of order. Continue, hon member. Order, hon
members!
Mr Z N MBHELE: Chairperson, while the stream of illegal
immigration over the years has, on one hand, created
fertile context for periodic violent xenophobic
outbreaks, the chronic neglect of the police service has,
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on the other hand, undermined and hollowed out the
state‘s capacity to forecast and respond adequately to
public unrest when it does break out. It will thus fall
to the DA to do what Police Minister Nhleko has failed to
do.
We will fix our broken border security and police service
when we come to lead a national government because we
care. We will build a caring government that reconnects
with the people through a social contract that all
citizens can trust and put their confidence in. After 23
years of failed delivery, the ANC has broken the trust
that it once enjoyed by the people. The people will soon
place that trust in another government that deserves it
and truly cares for them. Thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Hon Chairperson, at the
June 1994 OAU Summit in Tunis, President Mandela said:
Finally, at this summit meeting in Tunis, we shall
remove from our agenda the consideration of the
question of Apartheid South Africa. Where South
Africa appears on the agenda again, let it be
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because we want to discuss what its contribution
shall be to the making of the new African
renaissance.
On the occasion of this important debate, which has
seemed in recent years to visit these hallowed Chambers
with greater frequency, and having listened to the
speeches made this afternoon, I wish to pose the
question, could we confidently assert that are we walking
in Madiba‘s footsteps!
The passage of time must not distract us from the path
set for us by our forebears; and neither must the
challenges of the moment obscure our vision as to what we
must do to contribute towards Africa‘s renaissance. South
Africa is built on the values of freedom, respect for
human dignity, Ubuntu, and unity in diversity.
We also recognise our singleness with fellow African
countries and peoples, and that we share together a
common past and a common destiny. For these reasons
alone, incidences of negative sentiment towards foreign
nationals have no place in South African society.
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Ultimately, we are not judged by how we treat people in
good times, but how we do so in times of difficulty.
That we are a society preoccupied with the triple
challenges of poverty, unemployment and inequality, and
the frustration of so many of our people at the
unfinished work of the fundamental social transformation
of our society, is frankly then, no excuse at all. As
Africans, when our harvest is meagre, we do not turn our
neighbours away, we divide the little we have and share
it together.
This debate is an apt reminder that we must lead society
in remaining true to these founding values. As we abhor
recurrent incidents of negative sentiment towards foreign
nationals in some corners of our society, we should do so
with perspective.
The vast majority of foreign nationals in South Africa
are documented and choose to be here because South Africa
is one of the most dynamic, diverse, tolerant,
Afropolitan countries on the continent, in which people
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with differences of race, culture, gender, class, sexual
orientation, live in harmony.
We are not perfect but we have a lot to be proud of. We
do not have much, yet we strive daily to make significant
social progress. Sometimes, some among our citizens
misdirect their frustrations at foreign nationals.
In covering these issues, some amongst us want to fixate
on whether government acknowledges that xenophobia is an
issue in South Africa. Interestingly, we never hear that
Americans, Britons and Germans are xenophobic when some
of their citizens attend anti-immigrant rallies or vote
patently xenophobic leaders.
Whilst these are surely not the standards by which we
should measure ourselves, still no, I will not accept the
statement that South Africans are xenophobic, or
Afrophobic. [Applause.]
The issues are more complicated than that, and if we are
to address them effectively, we need to acknowledge their
complexity.
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Yes, there is anti-immigrant sentiment among some
sections of our society, but these are in the minority.
But unfortunately, it is a social reality that in times
of difficulty or scarcity, there are people in society
who use immigrants as scapegoats for their problems.
This negative phenomenon is observable in many countries;
it not unique to South Africa. Where our people are
complaining about the scourge of crime and other social
and economic problems in communities, we must work with
them to confront it decisively.
Government must go back to the basics of doing what
government must do to deliver on people‘s expectations,
and politicians must refrain from seeking cheap
popularity by stoking the fires of xenophobia,
intolerance and conflict. We must never attribute crime
or causes of unemployment particularly to immigrants.
All crime is an ill to be fought; the effect on the
victims is the same whether a crime is committed by a
South African or a foreign national. We have also
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observed that criminality is a factor in incidents of socalled xenophobic violence.
All of these facets of the problem must be confronted by
leaders at various levels of our society without seeking
to trivialise them or score political points because the
cost to human lives far outweighs whatever gains one
party may score.
We must firmly reject the tendency to target African
immigrants and associate them alone, and altogether, with
lack of documentation, crime, moral depravity,
illegality, and to view them as necessary targets for
abuse, exploitation and physical attacks.
International migration is one of the major issues of our
time, with enormous political, social, economic and moral
dimensions.
Democracies around the world are responding to it in
different ways. It is causing difficulty to much older
democracies than our own, and has become a major issue in
the politics of Europe and North America.
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Much as we have our own problems relating to
international migration, arguably South Africans are more
open and tolerant of foreign nationals than citizens in
wealthier countries.
It is also worth noting that most countries easily admit
foreign nationals they need for economic purposes,
especially those with critical skills and investment
muscle. We have recently proposed a new approach to
managing international migration, which we hope will go
some way to addressing these issues.
We believe South Africa must unite around a positive,
pragmatic vision for managing international migration
which advances our national interests and reflects our
values.
We have proposed that management of international
migration is not a matter for Home Affairs alone, but
must follow a ‗whole of government, whole of society‘
approach. One of the most contentious areas is around
managing economic migration from the continent, as this
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affects poor and working class communities and
immigrants.
I think this has less to do with South Africans being
xenophobic or Afrophobic, but more to do with poorly
regulated competition for jobs and resources between
locals and economic immigrants, as well as lack of
enforcement of existing rules.
We should not dismiss poor and working class South
Africans as xenophobic when they are raising genuine
social and economic issues affecting them, especially
relating to unscrupulous employers who use desperate
economic migrants to exert downward pressure on wages and
working conditions.
After all, the middle and upper classes are largely
shielded from such challenges. These unscrupulous
businesses exploit equally South Africans whom they do
not employ and immigrants whom they employ below the
minimum standards as prescribed in law.
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In acting this way, they demonstrate the brutality of the
capitalist system which does not care for the humanity of
its employees, so long as the system has the workers
available in abundance and employers can pit them in
fierce competition against one another and make super
profits out of all of them.
In fact, research shows that it is for exactly this
reason that businesses tend to lobby governments for more
liberal immigration policies. While this debate is not
primarily about international migration, I think it is
important to highlight several points.
Firstly, we are clear and unapologetic that the South
African government must prioritise its own citizens for
employment and economic opportunities. This is true of
most, if not all countries, and we are no different.
Immigration policy is inherently protectionist in all
countries – outside of regional integration arrangements
which are exceptions to this – and we will continue to
regulate immigration in our national interest.
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In this regard, we insist that businesses operating in
South Africa must comply with the regulations to ensure
that no less than 60% South Africans are employed in all
businesses, including those owned and run by foreign
nationals in South Africa.
Joint business inspections have been carried out in 56
business premises, resulting in seven employers charged
for employing undocumented migrants and 147 undocumented
migrants were arrested. As well as meeting businesses and
their federations to seek a collaborative and proactive
approach, we shall persist with the inspections.
However, we must emphasise that whilst we carry out these
inspections, we do not blame foreign nationals for high
unemployment in South Africa, but we place the blame
squarely on our untransformed racialised economy.
Secondly, we must acknowledge that there are factors
which limit our ability to regulate immigration such as
large, porous land borders. Despite the best intentions,
few, if any countries, including those with far more
means, are able to police their borders such that they
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can ensure that no human being crosses their border
unauthorized.
We must manage our borderline and ports of entry to the
best of our ability, to protect our sovereignty,
security, economy, and travellers themselves, South
African and foreign.
The Border Management Authority, BMA, will aid this, in
providing a structure for integrated, professional,
specialized border management capability. But it is
neither possible, nor desirable, to seal our borders.
Thirdly, all growing, competitive industrial and
knowledge economies are enhanced by an enlightened
management of international migration. No country
produces all the skills it needs all the time.
Immigrants bring skills, knowledge, experience, resources
and human connections which enhance societies and
economies, increasingly so in a globalized world. To
think of immigrants only in the context of taking jobs
from locals is therefore a mistake and short-sighted. By
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contributing to growth, they directly and indirectly
create new opportunities for South Africans to take
advantage of.
Fourthly, we must swiftly and emphatically reject and
bury the idea underlying too much of our public discourse
around international migration, that Africa is a problem.
Madiba already directed us at the very advent of our
freedom to contribute towards the renaissance of Africa.
Our region of SADC and our beloved continent of Africa
are our future. They are our partners in development,
fellow members of an indivisible African civilization
which is in the process of rebirth. We will not develop
despite Africa, but with and because of Africa.
Africa is a continent of 1,2 billion dynamic and aspirant
people, increasingly urbanized, with a large and growing
middle class. We are a young continent, whose workforce
can, must and will power a social revolution, especially
as the populations of industrial powers age in the coming
decades.
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Our future lies in intra-African trade and regional
economic integration. The advantage of being late
developers is that we are the last, exciting global
growth frontier. We must bind together to bring about a
common future. South Africa is a leader in our continent.
Our commitment to democracy, peace and stability, and
common development is respected and embraced.
Our companies are leading investors and players in many
African countries. We cannot aspire to play a leadership
role in Africa‘s development, while closing our door to
all of our fellow Africans who come to South Africa
seeking economic opportunities. Neither can we provide
leadership in isolation, secluded from the rest of the
continent.
Nor can we, and a handful of other countries, absorb the
economic migrants of sister countries, absolving them of
their own development responsibilities. We must find a
balance.
In this regard, as leading powers on the continent, South
Africa and Nigeria must not fall into the trap of mutual
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suspicion and discord. The development of our respective
countries, and the African continent as a whole, requires
that we draw closer to one another politically, socially
and economically.
Let us never allow our common challenges, however
difficult they may be, to cause antagonism between us,
but let us rather confront them with a spirit of PanAfrican and brotherly partnership and dialogue.
Finally, now and ever, we must ground ourselves in our
values. The issue of ‗Who belongs?‘ has too often
bedevilled African countries throughout the post-colonial
period.
It has been at the heart of political divisions, violence
and even civil war; and this is not unique to South
Africa as many other countries, both in Africa and
abroad, have been subject to political contestation based
on identity, at times resulting in civil wars.
We must remember the wisdom, vision and humanity we
displayed when we proclaimed in the Freedom Charter that
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―South Africa belongs to all who live in it‖ and when we
adopted a Constitution which recognizes the dignity and
human rights of all persons, not only citizens or
documented persons.
This is a high standard we have set for ourselves, but it
is the right standard, which we need to continue to
strive to live by.
We are a people of Ubuntu. We cannot deny the human
dignity of others but expect our own to be upheld.
These human values were the social genius of freedom
loving South Africans who were the midwives and
architects of our young democracy. Now as ever, we must
affirm those values by living them, in good times and in
difficult times.
Ultimately, the most urgent challenge Africa faces with
regard to migration stems not from the individuals
migrating, but from our continent‘s economic
underdevelopment which, coupled with colonial borders,
has created inequitable migration patterns.
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In his Preface to Adekeye Adebajo‘s book, Prof Ali Mazrui
says:
Africa, since its partition, has seen its mineral
wealth exploited for the benefit of others, its
fertile land left undercultivated, its rich cultures
destroyed, and its brain-power drained to other
parts of the world. At the centre of this calamity
is the role of the West in creating an international
system that reduced proud Africans to the lowest
caste of the twentieth century. How will postcolonial Africans overcome this condition in the
twenty-first century?
Fortunately, the question Mazrui posed addressed itself
not to victims any more, but to the masters of their own
destiny.
It was to provide such clarity that Uncle Jack Simons
said to MK combatants in Angola that African independence
had concentrated on the transfer of political power but
not on implementing a programme of economic and social
change.
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He thus concluded that:
The tendency in many African countries has been to
maintain the old economic as well as political
system. There has been continuity and not
revolution.
Herein lies our answer, hon members, not to fight
immigrants, but to implement a programme of economic and
social change throughout the African continent that would
hoist the current neocolonial relations at their own
petard and bring total emancipation to all of Africa!
In conclusion, I wish to comment on the point that hon
Mulder made that the ANC keeps on harping on the past but
there in lies in the past the crimes and injustices which
hon Mulder would wish us to forget and ignore as we move
forward to a fictitious equal opportunities society.
[Time expired.] Thank you.
IsiXhosa:
Nks T E KENYE: Sihlalo weNdlu, nam makhe ndifakele kule
ndawo ithethwayo yohloniphekileyo uMulder. Kaloku
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ngesingekho apha ukuba besilibala kuba silapha nje
kungenxa yokuba asikhange sayilibala imbali yethu nalapho
sisuka khona. Awunakuze ukhokele unomsindo, unenzondo,
ungenaxolo nesiqu sakho kwaye unochuku. Sazoyisa ke thina
ezinto singulo mbutho kaTata uTambo, uTata uMandela,
noTata uLuthuli mhla soyisa ucalucalulo kweli lizwe
lethu. Yiyo loo nto ndibulela zonke izithethi ebezithetha
ngokwakha ubuzwe nobunye kweli lizwe lethu, kwi-Afrika
nakwihlabathi jikelele. Ndiyabulela Sihlalo weNdlu.
[Kwaqhwatywa.]
Debate concluded.
NOMINATION OF THE FIRST FEMALE PRESIDENT OF THE SUPREME
COURT OF APPEAL
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: House Chairperson,
I move without notice:
That the House –
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(1)
notes with pride and appreciation, that
President Jacob Zuma nominated Justice Mandisa
Muriel Lindelwa Maya as the first female
President of the Supreme Court of Appeal, SCA;
(2)
further notes that Justice Maya would fill the
vacancy that has occurred due to the departure
of Mr Justice Lex Mpati in 2016;
(3)
remembers that she had in the past acted as a
judge at the Labour Court, the SCA and the
Constitutional Court before being appointed in
2006 as a SCA judge;
(4)
further remembers that in 2015, she was
appointed as the first female Deputy President
of the SCA and with her latest appointment
makes history again;
(5)
understands that according to the Constitution,
the President of the SCA is appointed by the
President after consultation with the Judicial
Service Commission, JSC;
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(6)
further understands that the President informed
the Chairperson of the JSC‚ Chief Justice
Mogoeng Mogoeng about his decision to nominate
Justice Maya as the President of the SCA; and
(7)
congratulates Justice Maya on her nomination as
the first female President of the SCA.
[Applause.]
Agreed to.
THE SOUTH AFRICAN COUPLE JAILED IN ABU DHABI
(Draft Resolution)
Ms T STANDER: House Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the House –
(1)
notes that a South African man, Emlyn
Culverwell and his fiancé have been jailed in
Abu Dhabi for transgressing the United Arab
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Emirates, UAE, morality law and for being
pregnant without a marriage certificate;
(2)
further notes that despite the UAE being the
signatory to the treaty on the International
Human Rights Laws, hundreds of women are
arrested every year in the UAE for sex without
the marriage certificate, whether that is
consensual or rape;
(3)
acknowledges that tomorrow is International
Women‘s Day and that many countries still
impose Archaic Laws that oppresses women and
violate their international human rights;
(4)
calls on the Department of International
Relations and Cooperation and the South African
Embassy and Consulates, to answer the call of a
desperate mother and do whatever possible to
ensure the safety and release of this couple;
(5)
condemns this practice in support of
international human rights and our very own
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Bill of Rights as contained in our
Constitution; and
(6)
conveys our support to Mr Culverwell family
during this terrible ordeal.
Agreed to.
GHANA WINNING ITS INDEPENDENCE UNDER THE LEADERSHIP OF DR
KWAME NKRUMAH
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M Q NDLOZI: House Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the House –
(1)
notes that 6 March 2017 marked 60 years since
Ghana won its independence from Britain under
the leadership of our father, the towering
figure of the African liberation, Dr Kwame
Nkrumah;
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(2)
further notes that Ghana, being the first SubSaharan African country to obtain her freedom
from the tentacles of corrosive colonial rule,
inspired hope and courage reverberating across
the African continent, that nothing can stop
African people from acting in unity for the
attainment of freedom;
(3)
acknowledges that Nkrumah‘s commitment to the
African Revolution was captured in the
commitment when he spoke in the independence of
Ghana when he said: ―We have won the battle and
again rededicate ourselves. Our independence is
meaningless unless it is linked up to the total
liberation of Africa.‖
(4)
further acknowledges that Nkrumah‘s vision for
African independence entailed the freedom of
African people everywhere in the world and
calls for unity of Africans wherever they are;
(5)
remembers that this construction of decolonial
institutions that Nkrumah wanted, is grounded
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neither on the importation of faked external
cognitive structures on the basis of advices
from the same imperial predators whose claim to
represent African interest, or from the experts
of international donor-grant institutions whose
interest is to appendage Africa‘s interest and
history to the imperial exploitive machine;
(6)
congratulates the people of Ghana for being a
shining example to the rest of the continent;
and
(7)
rededicate ourselves to the vision of PanAfrican unity as expounded by Dr Nkrumah.
Agreed to.
THE PASSING OF THE AUTHOR, MIRIAM MASOLI TLADI
(Draft Resolution)
Mr P MNGUNI: House Chairperson, I move without notice:
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That the House –
(1)
notes with sadness the passing of the renowned
South African author, Miriam Masoli Tlali, on
Friday, 24 February 2017, at the age of 83;
(2)
remembers that the Johannesburg-born Tlali was
the first black South African woman to publish
a novel in English within the country‘s
borders;
(3)
further remembers that she applied to study
literature at the University of the
Witwatersrand, but could not gain entry because
of racial policies. Instead, she went to study
at the now University of Lesotho);
(4)
recalls that her ground breaking novel Muriel
at Metropolitan was published in 1975, and that
it was banned four years later by the apartheid
government;
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(5)
further recalls that her second novel‚ Amandla‚
was based on the 1976 youth uprisings and that
it suffered the same fate shortly after
publication;
(6)
understands that her outstanding literary work
earned her several accolades and honours,
including the Order of Ikhamanga in 2008;
(7)
further understands that her literature took
her all over the world, including a residency
at Yale University in 1989; and
(8)
conveys its deepest condolences to her family‚
relatives and everyone in the arts and culture
industry or fraternity.
Agreed to.
THE TABLING OF PRIVATE MEMBER’S BILL BY DR MARIO GASPARE
ORIANI-AMBROSINI
(Draft Resolution)
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Mr N SINGH: House Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the House –
(1)
notes that the former IFP Member of Parliament,
Dr Mario Gaspare Oriani-Ambrosini, tabled a
private members‘ Bill, the Medical Innovation
Bill PMB1 of 2014, before this House in
February of 2014;
(2)
further notes that the object of the Bill seeks
to create a legislative framework necessary to
allow for greater medical innovation and
research into innovative medicines and their
use;
(3)
acknowledges that after Dr Oriani-Ambrosini‘s
passing, the IFP reintroduced the Medical
Innovation Bill;
(4)
commends the Department of Health and Medicines
Control Council, MCC, for their efforts at
creating the recently released-for public-
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comment, MCC guidelines on the cultivation of
cannabis and manufacture of cannabis-related
pharmaceutical products for medicinal and
research purposes;
(5)
calls upon all South Africans to submit their
comments to the MCC in this matter by 30 March
2017.
Agreed to.
THE DEATH OF A 29-YEAR OLD MAN IN KHABAZELA, NORTH OF
DURBAN
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M S MABIKA: House Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the House –
(1)
notes that during the past weekend, a 29-yearold man burned to death after three informal
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homes caught fire in Khabazela, north of
Durban;
(2)
further notes that 25 people were left homeless
after a devastating fire destroyed ten informal
homes in Vrygrond informal settlement near
Muizenberg on Monday afternoon;
(3)
acknowledges that regular outbreak of fires in
South African informal settlements often leads
to tragic loss of life and destitution for
many;
(4)
calls this honourable House, to convey its
condolences to those who lost family members
and loved ones in the fires and to those who
are destitute; and
(5)
encourages all government structures to
urgently devise and implement preventative
measures which will minimise fires in the
informal settlements.
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Agreed to.
TREVOR NOAH NAMED A TIME MAGAZINE NEXT GENERATION LEADER
(Draft Resolution)
Ms R M M LESOMA: House Chair, on behalf of ANC I move
without notice:
That the House —
(1) notes that South African comedian Trevor Noah has
been named one of TIME magazine‘s next generation
leaders;
(2) further notes that the comedian is one of 10
people who made the list which includes artists,
athletes and entrepreneurs;
(3) remembers that the magazine had praised Noah for
his work as the Daily Show host while calling him
―the master of the eloquent Trump takedown‖;
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(4) further remembers that, since his debut in 2015,
the South African comedian has more than doubled
the show‘s international reach;
(5) recalls that Trevor, who pursued greener pastures
in the United States in 2011‚ last year released
his debut book entitled Born A Crime: Stories of
a South African Childhood‚ which garnered him two
awards in the Debut Author and Outstanding
Biography/Autobiography categories at the
National Association for the Advancement of
Coloured People in February 2017
(6) understands that the book was based on his life‘s
experiences of having been born to a black mother
and white father in South Africa in 1984 while
the apartheid regime was still in power and
interracial unions were still illegal; and
(7) congratulates Trevor Noah on his latest
achievement and for raising the South African
flag high.
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I thank you.
Agreed to.
THE PASSING OF HIGH COURT JUDGE, BONISILE SANDI
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M L FILTANE: Chair, on behalf of the UDM I move
without notice:
That the House —
(1) notes with sadness the recent passing of the
Eastern Cape High Court Judge Bonisile Sandi;
(2) further notes that Judge Sandi was an activists
and a human rights lawyer during the struggle
against apartheid like his colleague on the
bench, the late Judge Essa Moosa, who died two
weeks ago.
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(3) recalls that Judge Sandi will be remembered as a
virtuous man of principle with an eye for detail
in his practice of law, both at the side Bar and
on the bench;
(4) acknowledges that, with the passing of Judge
Sandi, the Eastern Cape Division of the High
Court, and indeed the entire South African
judiciary has lost a legal mind who served the
bench with humility and dedication; and
(5) expresses its condolences to the family of the
late Judge Bonisile Sandi, his friends and
colleagues.
I so move.
Agreed to.
THE MURDER OF MIKE MAIMANE, THE SON OF POTCHEFSTROOM
MAYOR KGOTSO KHUMALO
(Draft Resolution)
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Ms J F Terblanche: Chair, on behalf of the DA I hereby
move without notice:
That the House —
(1) notes that on 18 February 2017, the body of Mike
Maimane was found with multiple stab wounds in
Ikageng, Potchefstroom;
(2) also notes that Maimane was the only son of
Tlokwe Potchefstroom Mayor Kgotso Khumalo;
(3) acknowledges that a case of murder has been
opened and a suspect has been arrested;
(4) further acknowledges that Maimane leaves behind a
young child; and
(5) conveys its heartfelt condolences to Mayor
Khumalo and the family and friends of Mr Mike
Maimane.
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Agreed to.
THE EFF THE SOLE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE RUSSIAN SOCIALIST
VISION IN PARLIAMENT
(Draft resolution)
Ms H O HLOPHE: Chair, I rise on behalf of the EFF to move
without notice:
That the House —
(1)
notes that on many occasions when socialist
attempts fail, socialists are never given an
opportunity to regain and correct and are instead
condemned;
(2)
acknowledges that there is a global war against
countries‘ self-determining rights to decide on
their ideological paths instead of accepting the
imposed failed capitalist system. Yet, when the
capitalist system and the financial markets fail
and limp from one sort of self-inflicted crisis to
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another, leaving behind a trail of poverty,
unemployment and inequality, it is given ample
opportunity to regain itself;
(3)
notes that the 100th year of the beginning of the
Russian revolution must inspire us to recommit to
the communist slogan that says, ―Workers Of The
World, Unite! You have nothing to lose but your
chains.‖
(4)
recognises that the African socialist revolution
and economic revolution draw direct lessons from
the Russian revolution led by the revolutionary
and visionary leader, Vladimir Lenin;
(5)
The EFF is the only party that truly represents
the Russian socialist vision in Parliament. Not
even the SA Communist Party who is no longer the
SA Communist Party, but has become the South
African Capitalist Party ...
I so move.
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, if
there are no objections, I put the motion.
[Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: House Chair, we obviously object with
contempt.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): In light of the
objection, the motion is not agreed to.
THE PASSING OF MONDE COLLEN MKUNQWANA
(Draft Resolution)
Mr P MNGUNI: House Chair, the ANC moves without notice:
That the House —
(1)
notes with sadness the death of the ANC struggle
veteran and former Robben Island prisoner, Monde
Mkunqwana, who died of heart complications at the
East London Private Hospital on Tuesday,
21 February at the age of 68;
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(2)
further notes that at the time of his death, he
was serving on the ANC‘s national integrity
committee responsible with monitoring the moral
conduct of party members;
(3)
remembers that the Mdantsane-born Mkunqwana was
imprisoned in 1963 for an alleged assassination
attempt on the then Transkei paramount chief,
Kaiser Matanzima;
(4)
recalls that Mkunqwana is a descendent of Makhanda
Nxele, a Xhosa warrior who led an attack against
the British in Grahamstown, the municipality which
is now named after Makana;
(5)
acknowledges that Mkunqwana was an intellectual
with enormous influence and contributed to the
education of other political prisoners on Robben
Island; and
(6)
conveys its condolences to his family and friends.
I so move.
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Agreed to.
SUNFIELD HOME FORTUNA ATTACKED BY TEN MEN DEMANDING CASH
(Draft Resolution)
Ms D Carter: House Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the House —
(1)
notes that Sunfield Home Fortuna, situated on Farm
Rietfontein in Balfour, Mpumalanga, cares for 89
physically and mentally disabled Patients between
the ages 8 to 70;
(2)
further notes that Sunfield Home Fortuna is not an
ordinary establishment as each resident forms part
of a close knit family;
(3)
expresses with grave concern that 10 men forced
their way into Home Fortuna at 21:30 on 1 March
2017, after attacking two residents and the
manager with a crowbar, demanding R100 000 cash;
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(4)
acknowledges that the vulnerable residents were
tied up execution style and threatened with rape
and death;
(5)
further acknowledges that Home Fortuna does not
keep cash and that the manager was forced to write
a cheque;
(6)
realises that these attackers threatened to come
back and kill all the residents if the cheque is
not honoured;
(7)
recognises that these residents are the most
vulnerable members of our society and all measures
must be taken to
(8)
ensure their safety;
calls on government, non-government organisations,
the Lottery Board and South Africans to open their
hearts and assist in putting security measures in
place to ensure the safety of the residents of
Home Fortuna; and
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(9)
further calls on the South African Police Service
to leave no stones unturned in arresting the
attackers.
Agreed to.
CONGRATULATIONS TO AKANI SIMBINE AS HE MAKES HISTORY
WITH SUB-20 TIME IN 200M
(Draft Resolution)
Ms R M M LESOMA: House Chairperson, I move without
notice:
That the House –
(1)
notes that Akani Simbine became the first South
African to run under 10 seconds in the 100m, and
20 seconds in the 200m on the same day in Pretoria
on Saturday, 4 March 2017;
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(2
further notes that this is the fastest 100m time
on South African soil‚ beating the 9.96 he posted
in his first race of the season a year ago;
(3)
acknowledges that Simbine climbed to third place
in the South Africa‘s all-time list in the halflap sprint behind Anaso Jobodwana (19:87) and
Wayde van Niekerk (19:94);
(4)
further acknowledges that the 23-year-old runner
became the only second South African to break the
sub-
10 and sub-20 barriers in his career,
after Van Niekerk achieved the feat last season,
and he racked
up a unique record by becoming
the first South African athlete to dip under both
marks on the same day; and
(4)
congratulates Akani Simbine on his new record.
Agreed to.
CONDOLENCES TO THE FAMILTY OF FORMER FREE STATE JUDGE
PRESIDENT
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(Draft Resolution)
Mr P MNGUNI: House Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the House —
(1)
notes with sadness the death of former president
of the Free State Division of the High Court,
Judge Jacobus Petrus Malherbe on Wednesday, 1
March 2017, at the age of 79;
(2)
remembers that he obtained LLB from the thenUniversity of the Orange Free State and was
admitted to the Bar in February 1961;
(3)
further remembers that he was permanently
appointed as a judge in the Northern Cape in
August 1984 and became a High Court judge in the
Free State in 1985;
(4)
recalls that in April 2001, he was appointed as
Judge President of the Free State Division of the
High Court, a position he held until he was
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discharged from service at the age of 70 in
January 2008; and
(5)
conveys its condolences to his family and loved
ones.
Agreed to.
SOUTH AFRICAN WOMEN'S CRICKET TEAM VICTORY OVER SRI LANKA
(Draft Resolution)
Ms T E BAKER House Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the House —
(1)
notes that the South African women's cricket team,
the Momentum Proteas, were recently victorious
over Sri Lanka securing a spot in the ICC Women‘s
World Cup;
(2)
further notes that South Africa will join teams
from West Indies, India and Australia, to take on
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the best teams in the world in England in June and
July this year;
(3)
calls on more young ladies to join in and follow
the lead of these amazing young women and get
involved in the sporting world of cricket;
(4)
congratulates coach Hilton Moreeng and his team on
this outstanding achievement; and
(5)
wishes the Proteas the best of luck as they
represent our beautiful country in the
international sporting arena.
Agreed to.
STRUGGLE ICON'S STORY TO BE TOLD BY 100% SA CAST
(Draft Resolution)
Ms R M M LESOMA: House Chairperson, I move without
notice:
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That the House —
(1)
notes that an All-South African cast brought to
life the story of struggle icon Solomon Mahlangu
in a film launched at Ster Kinekor Sterland in
Pretoria, on Saturday, 4 March 2017;
(2)
further notes that the film, written and directed
by Mandla Dube, tells the story of Mahlangu as a
young man who became the voice of many youths when
no one was listening to them;
(3)
remembers that Mahlangu, known as Kalushi, used
his arrest and trial to speak for the masses;
(4)
further remembers that he was sentenced to death
at the age of 23;
(5)
understands that the cast includes Thabo Rametsi
as Mahlangu, Thabo Malema, Louw Venter, Marcel van
Heerden, Welile Nzuza and Shika Budhoo;
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(6)
acknowledges that amongst the actors in the film
are poet and playwright, Dr Gcina Mhlophe, who
plays the role of Mahlangu‘s mother as well as
Pearl Thusi, who recently starred in US series
Quantico;
(7)
further acknowledges that Mahlangu‘s brother Lucas
was a cultural adviser to the production;
(8)
believes that Mahlangu‘s story demonstrates how
the strength of the human spirit can triumph, even
under the most difficult and oppressive
circumstances;
(9)
and commends the organisers for bringing to the
world the story of our struggle icon.
Agreed to.
MINISTER BATHABILE DLAMINI RENEGOTIATES INVALID CASH
PAYMASTER SERVICES’S CONTRACT
(Member‘s Statement)
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Mr T J BRAUTESETH (DA): House Chair, the Minister of
Social Development, Bathabile Dlamini is reliable in at
least one respect. She can be relied on to duck
responsibility and dodge questions about the crooked
social grant contract with Cash Paymaster Services, CPS.
She won‘t say why she trampled the Public Finance
Management Act in appointing her cronies without a
tendering process to investigate how payments could be
done by her department.
She won‘t consider the commercial banks‘ distributors of
grant payments because she makes a fantastic claim that
they owe her department money. She won‘t reveal what she
plans to do to have grants paid from 01 April 2017. She
won‘t listen to Treasury when it tells her to curtail her
improper relationship with Cash Paymaster Services.
She has tried her best to avoid answering questions in
the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa. She has
avoided answering questions in the Portfolio Committee on
Social Development. She has created this crisis and by
doing so, has ensured the renegotiation of what the
Constitutional Court described as an invalid contract.
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She still will not tell the South African people how much
more we will have to pay for the process rigged to
benefit her cronies.
The Minister regularly bashes the so-called white
monopoly capital but suddenly it is okay to do business
with them. This begs the question: What‘s in it for the
Minister? [Applause.]
NATIONAL PROSECUTING AUTHORITY MICROMANAGED BY PRESIDENT
ZUMA FOR POLITICAL BATTLES
(Member‘s Statement)
Ms E N LOUW (EFF): House Chair, the decision by the
ConCourt to grant Bonginkosi Khanyile bail of R250 after
spending six months in prison without a trial and the
acquittal of the EFF North West provincial secretary
Papiki Babuile who was wrongfully arrested for two years
is a clear sign of the fundamental problem in our justice
system. The National Prosecuting Authority is no longer
independent; instead it is now micromanaged by Mr who is
using such critical institutions to our justice system
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and the Constitution to fight political battles to
prosecute opposition party leaders and to close down
#FeesMustFall campaigns.
Even when Shaun Abrahams went to Luthuli House to receive
political instruction from Mr Zuma to clamp down on
#FeesMustFall activities, the EFF is disturbed by Mr
Zuma‘s announcement that the NPA Director, Shaun Abrahams
will not be suspended. We condemn the use of the NPA as a
tool for Mr Zuma and his cronies to fight the ANC‘s
factional battles. The EFF welcomes back the provincial
secretary, Papiki and wishes him well as he resumes his
duties as the provincial secretary to build stronger
branches for the EFF. Aluta Continua! [Applause.]
Mr P J MNGUNI: House Chair, in terms of Rule 85 the
member who has just read a statement was casting
aspersions. She should have known better what to do.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): I‘ll check the
statement hon member and if necessary, I‘ll make a ruling
in that regard.
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Mr N Q NDLOZI: Chairperson, just before, can I address
you respectfully please?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): In terms of which
Rule, hon member?
Mr N Q NDLOZI: I don‘t remember. You can check for me
later. I want to request ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Just tell me on
what is your intervention.
Mr N Q NDLOZI: It is on the matter of aspersions. May I
respectfully ask you? When I stand and say somebody is
casting aspersions, it is important for me to firstly say
what those aspersions are before you rule so that we know
what is ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, I
said I‘ll look at the motion or statement that was made
and I‘ll make a ruling.
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Mr N Q NDLOZI: But this guy must say what the aspersions
are.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member,
please take your seat!
Mr N Q NDLOZI: You‘ll find that he does not know.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Take your seat,
hon member!
SQUARE KILOMETRE ARRAY TELESCOPE CONTRIBUTES TO
SOCIOECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT IN NORTHERN CAPE
(Member‘s Statement)
Ms R M M LESOMA (ANC): The ANC commends the progress made
by its government since South Africa won the bid to host
the Square Kilometre Array telescope, SKA together with
its precursor, the Meerkat. Telescope has continued to
make important contributions to socioeconomic development
particularly in the Northern Cape by uplifting the local
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community with businesses and work skills as well as
boosting the economy of the province.
The Square Kilometre Array has created more than 7 000
work opportunities in the province through the
construction of Kat-7, Meerkat and other related
projects. Local construction companies are prioritised
and benefit generously via this project and more than R67
million is being spent on local suppliers and contractors
for the 2015-16 financial year. This demonstrates that
the ANC-led government‘s investment in science and
technology is yielding results as this project has indeed
led to job creation, the diversification of the economy
through the creation of artisan and maintenance jobs, and
the promotion of science as a career of choice. I thank
you.
MEDICINE CONTROL COUNCIL RELEASES GUIDELINES FOR PUBLIC
COMMENT ON CULTIVATION AND MANUFACTURING OF CANNABISRELATED PHARMACEUTICAL PRODUCTS
(Member‘s Statement)
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Mr N SINGH (IFP): Chairperson, this statement goes beyond
the motion without notice which was moved earlier on. The
Medicine Control Council yesterday released guidelines
for public comment relating to the cultivation and
manufacture of cannabis-related pharmaceutical products
for medicinal and research purposes.
This is a great step forward by government and a great
stride for the use of medical cannabis in South Africa as
spearheaded by the IFP. As we understand it, a legal
framework is proposed to be created in terms of the
Medicines and Related Substances Amendment Act, Act 14 of
2015, which will make provision for the licensing of
manufacturers of scheduled substances.
Last Friday, this Parliament celebrated the 20th
Anniversary of the Adoption of the Constitution. Today,
we celebrate the strengthening of our constitutional
rights to health and the choice of medical treatment.
South Africa today stands as a shining example to the
rest of the continent and the world as we take medicine
and medical care forward into the next century. Thank
you.
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UDM WELCOMES SARU DECISIONS
(Member‘s Statement)
MR M L W FILTANE (UDM): Chair, the UDM highly appreciates
the decisions taken by the SA Rugby Union, SARU, on two
critical aspects of the Springboks. The fact that only
overseas based Springbok players with more than 30 test
caps will be eligible for selection in future will assist
in stabilising the development of future Boks whilst they
are locally based in South Africa. It was always of
serious concern to us that loyal players could be
replaced willy-nilly by overseas based players. The
continuation of the services of the head coach is most
welcome too. This is in line with the transformation
process based on qualified capacity. We reiterate our
statement made in the Old Assembly during the last visit
by SARU to the Portfolio Committee on Sport that he must
be given enough time to settle down and just do it for
South Africa. I so thank you.
GOVERNMENT NO-FEE SCHOOLS INVESTMENT SUCCESS IN GAUTENG
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(Member‘s Statement)
Mr B MABASA (ANC): House Chairperson, the ANC
acknowledges that the investment made by the ANC-led
government in no-fee schools is producing great results.
No-fee schools in Gauteng in particular had improved
their pass rates from 77,9% in 2015 to 79% in 2016.
Quoting words from the MEC of Education in Gauteng:
It is now not uncommon that a school like Sekano
Ntoane High school in Soweto with a 98,7% performs,
comparatively, as well as an established school like
Jeppe Boys High School that achieved 98,4.%
Sekano Ntoane High School, a no-fee school that has
produced leaders such as current Deputy President, hon
Cyril Ramaphosa, obtained 26 distinctions under the
leadership of Principal Ms Mokoena. We congratulate such
outstanding performance by Sekano Ntoane High School.
Keep up the good work. We depend on you to produce
engineers, pilots, scientist and doctors. You must aim
for a 100% pass rate for the year 2017. Ndza khensa.
[thank you] [Applause.]
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ANC GOVERNMENT COMMITED TO PROVIDING DECENT HOUSING FOR
ALL
(Member‘s Statement)
Ms H V NYAMBI (ANC): Chair, the ANC is committed in
ensuring that all South Africans live in decent
conditions in suitable human settlements. As such it
applauds the setting aside of R23 million to build 202
houses for people living on farms in Volksrust and
surrounding areas in the Pixley KaIsaka Seme Local
Municipality under the Gert Sibande District Municipality
in Mpumalanga. It also commends the provincial government
for prioritising the elderly, orphans, child-headed
households and people with disabilities as beneficiaries
of these houses.
Apart from the 202 units planned to be built in the area,
74 units have been completed, 103 are at roof level and
17 at wall placing stages of construction. Provisions of
decent housing has been one of the ANC government‘s most
successful programmes which has ensured that more than
22 million people have been provided with housing over
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the last two decades. In real numbers this translates to
more than 4,3 million houses and subsidies. The ANC
welcomes this ongoing programme of providing houses to
our people especially rural and farm dwellers to give
them an opportunity to live in decent and sustainable
houses aimed at restoring dignity to their lives. I thank
you.
ANC CONDONES MUNICIPAL LEVEL CORRUPTION
(Member‘s Statement)
Mr K J MILEHAM (DA): Chairperson, corruption kills
opportunity. Corruption kills service delivery and the
biggest perpetrators of corruption sit across the floor
from us. I quote from an email sent to Oscar Mabuyane,
the provincial secretary of the ANC in the Eastern Cape
on 20 February 2017 from the provincial convenor of the
ANC‘s Progressive Youth in Business Sive Nombembe:
I responded to a tender published by the Mnquma Local
Municipality for the supply of refuse bags on a
multiyear contract. Knowing that most decisions
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require political assistance I then approached Comrade
Teris Ntuthu, the regional secretary of the Amathola
to assist me in clinching the contract. He agreed to
do so but requested that when he from time to time
asks for financial assistance for his personal needs I
should first guarantee that I will oblige to which I
agreed. [Interjections.] I now want to confirm that
the various transactions coded using the name of the
ANC, its leagues and other Mass Democratic Movement,
MDM, structures were payments made in fulfilment of
that undertaking.
Clearly the ANC is well aware of corruption at municipal
level and clearly condones it. Otherwise, Minister Van
Rooyen sitting over there and the various law enforcement
agencies would have taken steps to stamp it out. The
prevention and combating of corrupt activities act exists
to address this. It is high time it was used to the full
against those who participate in corrupt activities. No
matter how high the office they occupy ... [Time
expired.] [Applause.]
MUNICIPAL NEGLIGENCE PUTS RESIDENTS LIVES AT RISK
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(Member‘s Statement)
IsiZulu:
Nk S KHAWULA (EFF): Sihlalo, siyi-EFF sinenkinga
yolungakhathalelwa kwabantu ... [Ubuwelewele.]
English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order hon
members.
IsiZulu:
Nk S KHAWULA (EFF): ... Khuseng laphaya Emfuleni,
kunemizi eminingi ebhidlikayo ngenxa yobudedengu
bomasipala. Umphakathi wakuleyandawo wonke usenkingeni
kuyimanje awukwazi nokuthi uzogudlukela kuphi. Imizi
laphaya yonke igcwele amanzi nendle lintanta ngaphandle
ngenxa yamapayipi amadala okufanele ngabe kade
ashintshwa. Ngendlela lo masipala ohluleka ngayo ukuthi
balethe intuthuko nokunakekela izidingo zabantu
emphakathini besingacela ukuthi lomthetho ogunyaza
oNgqongqoshe [Minister] noma uhulumeni ukuthi bangakwazi
ukuya komasipala bakwazi ukuthi balungise izinkinga
uphele ngoba omasipala bona bayahluleka, oNgqongqoshe
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baziqhubele. Bese ngizothi la kuNgqongqoshe uVan Rooyen
noNgqongqoshe Wezamanzi Nokuthuthwa KweNdle [Minister of
Water and Sanitation] ake bayeke ukulokho belandelana
nalendoda le yama-Gupta. Ake baphume bayobheka
umphakathi. Umphakathi uyafa laphayana. Ogogo abasakwazi
nokuyohola impesheni. Bahamba phakathi emanzini, ngisho
izimoto. Ngiyacela lapho Sihlalo ubayeke laba ... bye bye
wena point of order, bye. [Kwaphela isikhathi.]
Ms R M M LESOMA: I apologise that you didn‘t hear me hon
Chair while the speaker was still on the podium. Rule 85
Chairperson, she‘s casting aspersion [Interjection.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Hon member,
before you continue. That‘s why when hon members make
these statements, order hon member, it‘s important that I
can listen to them. Now, with all this noise going around
in the chamber it‘s virtually impossible even to follow
the interpretation that is here.
I really plead with all members, especially the members
also sitting there at the back that we should listen and
give an opportunity to the Presiding Officer to be able
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to follow the proceedings. Let us cooperate with one
another please. The point of order hon member?
Ms R M M LESOMA: Rule 85 House Chairperson. The member is
casting aspersion to hon Minister van Rooyen.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Hon member, as
I‘ve indicated, order, order, as I‘ve said earlier, I
will check the statement of the member and I‘ll make a
ruling if necessary. [Interjections.]
Order hon member, you have not been recognised, order.
RESULTS OF THE MUNICIPAL BY-ELECTIONS HELD ON 1 MARCH
2017
(Member‘s Statement)
Ms N K BILANKULU (ANC): The ANC welcomes the outcomes of
the two municipal wards‘ by-elections that took place in
the Eastern Cape and Free State on Wednesday 1 March
2017.
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The ANC retained the two wards it won in the 2016
Municipal Elections. Once again, these results are the
confirmation of the people‘s confidence in the ANC. It
also demonstrates the trust the people still have in the
leadership and guidance of the ANC as a party with the
experience, vision and a track record in terms of lifting
our people out of extreme poverty including expanding
housing and basic services.
The ANC values, and does not take the support of the
people for granted, and calls on the elected public
representatives to work hard to resolve our people‘s
problems and ensure service delivery and robust
oversight. I thank you.
Mr N Q NDLOZI: I rise on a point of order Chair, on Rule
85. I think the hon members are casting aspersions on the
ANC by saying it‘s doing a good job. It‘s very wrong ...
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Hon member,
that‘s not a point of order. Take your seat please.
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REPRIMANDING OF DEPUTY PRESIDENT FOR NOT SPEAKING OUT
AGAINST CORRUPTION
(Member‘s Statement)
Mr M A PLOUAMMA (Agang SA): Agang SA would like to take
this opportunity to reprimand the Deputy President by
remaining quiet when our public institutions are polluted
and corrupted.
The Deputy President Cyril Ramaphosa who remain to be
quiet when the Minister and Deputy Minister of Finance
are harassed by the Zuma faction.
The Deputy President has become a shadow of former self.
He lacked the courage to confront the President who has
become nucleus where all crooks draw inspiration ...
[Interjections.]
Ms R M M LESOMA: The hon member knows that he must submit
a substantive motion in that regard, Chair.
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Hon Plouamma, you
know when we deal with Rule 85, it is there for a very
specific reason. That if you have a specific issue that
you want to deal with, with the hon member of the House;
firstly, parliamentary convention says that you must
first submit that, and it‘s contained in rule 85 in the
form of a substantive motion. That motion is directed at
the Deputy President who is a member of this House, and
as such you are required by the rule to submit a
substantive motion on that.
Mr M A PLOUAMMA (Agang SA): Hon Minister Pravin Gordhan
and Deputy Minister Mcedisi Jonas are like orphans who
are abused by rudely elements ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Hon Plouamma, hon
Plouamma, hon Plouamma, if you simply continue with the
statement, I hope that you won‘t cast any further
aspersions because unfortunately I have to stop you and
I‘ll ask you to submit the substantive motion to the
table please.
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Mr M A PLOUAMMA (Agang SA): I won‘t cast any ... whatever
it is. Hon Chair, we‘ve reached a paralysis state, no one
knows where the ANC is taking our country and people. The
ANC of today lacks leaders of Bram Fischer and Joe Slovo
characters, who were willing to sacrifice the comfort of
their families and careers for the general good.
The ruling ANC has become a dry leaf lacking substance.
My fellow South Africans, the ANC has become an angel of
despair and tormenting souls.
The Guptas and the Zuma family and friends are the ones
who benefit most. Social justice to our people is a
secondary issue. I thank you.
DIWALI FACEBOOK RANTER’S PLEA REMORSELESS
(Member‘s Statement)
Ms B L ABRAHAMS (ANC): Mr Dawie Kriel on Friday 3rd March
2017 pleaded guilty to a crimen injuria charge in the
Durban Magistrate‘s Court in relation to his comments
that offended Hindus when he described them as ―idol
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worshippers‖ on Facebook last year. His post related to
the use of fireworks over the Hindu festival of Diwali.
The ANC believes that the guilty plea to the racist
comments on Facebook by Dawie Kriel is just a technical
approach rather than a real show of sincere remorse. We
believe he is now pleading guilty because he realises
that it is possible for him to argue this case and win in
a court of law.
The ANC believes that the days of making racist comments
and then apologising are over.
We request a heavy sentence that should include jail time
for Mr Kriel to send a strong message to all other racist
individuals who are not prepared to participate in our
democracy and transformation agenda in a democratic South
Africa post 1994. This will serve as a warning to
everyone that there is no space for racism in South
Africa. His comments were extremely racist and therefore
he cannot be allowed to go free with just an admission
and not an apology. Thank you.
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DA INCREASE TOURISM DESPITE ANC’S NEGATIVE VISA RULES
THAT DECREASE TOURISM
(Member‘s Statement)
Mr E J MARAIS (DA): The ANC‘s foolish Visa rules cut the
number of tourist visits to South Africa by 600 000.
Despite this, the DA has secured a massive increase in
tourism to the province because we have worked tirelessly
with industry and also stakeholders to achieve this.
The Cape Town Airlift Strategy has secured six new routes
and eight route expansions resulting in over half-amillion more two-way seats into the city.
Since July last year, these additional flights generated
R3 billion in tourism spent for the Western Cape. The
Cape Town Airlift Strategy is the partnership between the
Western Cape Government, the City of Cape Town, the
Airports Company of South Africa and Cape Town Tourism.
International air arrivals into Cape Town are increasing
by 22% year on year, and during the month of December
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2016 there was almost 30% increase in visitors compared
to the number of tourists during the same time in 2015.
British Airways last summer also added three additional
flights from Gatwick to Cape Town and last month
Lufthansa Airlines launched a flight from Frankfort.
There‘s also a daily flight between Cape Town and Luanda.
Mr Chair, the message could not be clearer, while the ANC
destroys jobs the DA will create them. Thank you.
BRAND NEW STATE-OF-THE-ART HOSPITAL FOR THE BETHAL
COMMUNITY
(Member‘s Statement)
Mr D H KHOSA (ANC): The glorious movement, the ANC,
welcomes and congratulates the Mpumalanga Department of
Health together with the National Department of Health
for setting aside R569 million for a brand new state-ofthe-art hospital for the Bethal community in the Govan
Mbeki District Municipality areas in Mpumalanga Province.
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The new high-tech facility will replace the old structure
which was officially opened in 1943.
The construction is anticipated to take about 35 months
with an estimated 300 jobs created during this phase.
The ANC welcomes the political wisdom of not interrupting
health services during the construction process.
On the other hand, the ANC appeals to the Mpumalanga
Department of Health to ensure that when the state-ofthe-art facility is completed, it should have adequate
and competent health professionals to serve our people. I
thank you.
INVESTING IN NO-FEE SCHOOLS PRODUCES RESULTS
(Minister‘s Response)
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon Chair, yes indeed I
really would want to join hon member Mabasa for
celebrating the new improvement that we are seeing,
especially in the townships, rural and farm schools. And
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indeed the performance of Sekano Ntoane and most other
township schools was a feast to be celebrated. I think as
hon members we should continue to support these schools
because if we are to see continues improvement in the
system, it would only come from these township and rural
schools, because your model C schools are already
functioning to the optimum. So, I really agree with the
hon member and say, we have to support them and it is
confirming that our system is growing system and these
are green shoots that are encouraging and I want to thank
the hon member Mabasa. [Applause.]
PAYMENT OF SOCIAL GRANTS ON 1 APRIL 2017
(Minister‘s Response)
IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHUKISWA KOMPHAKATHI:
[Ubuwelewele.] Ngiyabonga Sihlalo, ngifuna ukwazi ukuthi
nina njengoba nilwela amabhange kangaka, yini
enizoyithola? [Ubuwelewele.]
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Okwesibili, azange sikhulume ngodaba lwamabhange kuphela.
Sishilo ukuthi amabhange sizosebenza nawo kodwa-ke
nithatha lokhu enikuthandayo. [Ubuwelewele.] Okunye,
ushintsho olusheshayo lomnotho emphakathini[radical
socioeconomic transformation] aluyona inkondlo
liwumsebenzi lo okufanele niwenze nina - niyeke
―ukuyonxila‖. [Ubuwelewele.] Okunye engifuna ukukubuza
ukuthi yini i-ICEM – isikhungo sasithathaphi imali
sisebenza nohulumeni walapha e-Western Cape.
[Ubuwelewele.].
English:
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Hon Chairperson, on a point of order.
IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHUKISWA KOMPHAKATHI: Inkampani iHunt Lascaris ... [Ubuwelewele.]
English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Minister, hon
Minister ...
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Take a seat.
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): ... will you just
take a seat please. Hon member, in terms of which rule
are you rising?
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Hon House Chairperson, I am rising on a
point of order.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, in
terms of which rule is your point of order?
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Hon House Chairperson, my point of order
is: The hon Minister says – I am rising on Rule 92.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Rule 92 does not
say that hon member.
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Well hon Chairperson, you will find it.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member you
are taking a chance. That is not Rule 92.
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Hon Chairperson, can you listen to the
substance of my point of order!
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No hon member!
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Hon Chairperson, I am rising on a point of
order which is Rule 92. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): That point of
order which is Rule 92 ... [Interjections.]
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Hon Chairperson, can you first listen! Can
you first listen! [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No hon member!
Hon member, hon member, hon member, it is my task as the
presiding officer to guide you when you are obviously
wrong! [Interjections.]
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Alright, but do not suppress me.
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): And in this
instance you are wrong! You are raising the wrong rule!
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Alright! [Interjections.]
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): You cannot say
you are rising on Rule 92 based on Rule 92, what is that?
Mr N Q NDLOZI: No, no, no, I said I am rising on a point
of order! [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): It does not make
sense!
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Hon Chairperson, you asked me which rule
and I said 92!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): So, hon member
what is your point of order about?
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Ah! Hon Chairperson, you are taking
chances. The Minister ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon
members! Order!
Mr N Q NDLOZI: The Minister says that our concerns around
radical economic transformation ... [Interjections.]
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member please
take your seat! That is a point for discussion and
debate. That is not a point of order! [Interjections.]
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Hon Chairperson, can I ...
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): That is not a
point of order!
Mr N Q NDLOZI: House Chairperson, can I say my point of
order!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No! Please take
your seat! [Interjections.]
Mr N Q NDLOZI: But you cannot allow a Minister to call us
drunk! [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): You had the
opportunity to make a member statement! [Interjections.]
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Mr N Q NDLOZI: She said us who are concerned about the
radical economic transformation must go and drink!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Take your seat,
hon member! [Interjections.]
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Oh, so it is allowed for a Minister to
insult us! Casting aspersions!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No hon member!
Hon member! [Interjections.]
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Hon Frolick, do you hear isiZulu? Because
you are going to render his House ungovernable!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member,
please! I will check the statement. I will check the
statement.
Mr N Q NDLOZI: No but ... you will check! You just said
that I must sit down now you say you will check the
statement!
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): But if this
translation here bears no fruit [Inaudible.] Please take
your seat!
Mr N Q NDLOZI: She must not say people must go drink!
[Inaudible.] You are out of order! [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Take your seat,
please!
Mr N Q NDLOZI: No, but you are out of order!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Please take your
seat! [Interjections.]
Mr N Q NDLOZI: You are suppressing me for no reason!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member,
please take your seat! Order, order, hon members! Order!
Order, hon members!
Mr N Q NDLOZI: You know, Chair ... [Interjections.]
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No, hon member,
take your seat! I will check what the Minister has said
and I will come back, if there is anything with a ruling,
but I did not pick it up in this translation. Hon member,
take your seat! [Interjections.]
Take your seat, hon member! Hon member, please take your
seat. The hon Minister.
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, someone
from that side said, ngiyanxila. [I drink a lot.] That is
why I also used... [Interjections.]
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Alright. On a point of order.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, take
a seat!
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Me!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, take
your seat please! Take your seat. We want to listen to
what the Minister says. Hon Minister. [Interjections.]
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I indicated that I will check the Hansard in terms of
what was said. Will you now continue with your
ministerial response, please.
IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHUKISWA KOMPHAKATHI: Ithenda
engazange ikhangiswe eyanikezwa u-Huntlers-Caras
ongumeluleki kaNdunankulu. Kubekhona ithenda eyanikezwa
inkampani ebesingenamali [bankrupt company] eyayakha
izindlu ... [Ubuwelewele.]
English:
... and they even did not finish the houses of the
ordinary people.
IsiZulu:
Futhi sikhathele yinina nenze inkohlakalo niyibize
ngokuthi ...
English:
... you are wining and dining. And call it collusion.
IsiZulu:
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Nibe nenza inkohlakalo. [Ubuwelewele.] Musani ukufuna ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon
members!
Ms S P KOPANE: Hon Chair, on a point of order.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order! Hon
Minister, hon Minister, please take your seat. Hon
members, I am not going to allow this type of conduct.
Ms S P KOPANE: Point of order, House Chair!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): I am not going to
allow it! If you continue in this vain, then the essence
of members making statements and Ministers responding
becomes futile. Let us give an opportunity; whether you
do not like what the Minister says, the Minister has a
right to respond in the statement. So, let us give them
an opportunity to do so please.
Ms S P KOPANE: Point of order, House Chair.
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): What is you point
of order now, hon member?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): House Chair, the
Minister is not responding to the member statement.
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member,
please take your seat!
Ms S P KOPANE: No she does not respond! [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Take your seat!
Continue, hon Minister.
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, I am
trying to use all the opportunity that I have to say to
South Africans: On the 1st of April, all beneficiaries
will get their grants. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE & TRADITIONAL
AFFAIRS: House Chair ... [Interjections.]
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon
members. Order, hon members.
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE & TRADITIONAL
AFFAIRS: House Chair, I must indicate that the ANC-led
government‘s commitment to fight corruption is very
apparent for one to see, unlike the old order apartheid
system, which concealed corrupt activities as conducted
by Bancorp. The ANC-led government has revealed that
because of its systems against corruption. I must
indicate that the very same apartheid system that we are
referring to, the very system that didn‘t allow
corruption to be exposed benefited majority of the people
who are sitting on my right. [Applause.]
It is our corruption tight system as the ANC-led
government that exposed the collusion that is there in
the construction companies, which are mainly benefiting
some majority of them on the right. [Applause.] It is the
ANC-led government tight corruption management system
that made it a point that we are able to expose some
shenanigans within the banking systems as we speak.
[Applause.] I must indicate that our local government‘
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system and the legislation that is providing for
procurement in this system is so tight that is doesn‘t
allow anyone from the outside to manipulate the system.
We have bid committees and evaluation committees that are
managed by competent officials of this system.
Now I hope, hon member, as the so-called loyal citizen,
law abiding citizen of this country, he has opened a case
because it can‘t help for you to come here and grandstand
with such serious allegation.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Minister,
your time has expired.
The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE & TRADITIONAL
AFFAIRS): I hope you have opened a case.[Time expired.]
Mr K J MILEHAM: Chairperson! On a point of order!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Yes, what is the
point of order? On which Rule?
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Mr K J MILEHAM: Chairperson, that Minister was just
casting aspersions on me.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No, hon member I
will check. I didn‘t here the aspersion but I will check.
Continue, hon Minister, Nkwinti.
The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT & LAND REFORM: Hon
Chair!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon
members.
The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT & LAND REFORM: Hon
Chair, I would like to address South Africans and say the
following two things: obsession with the ANC. That is how
the Nationalist party distinguished itself during
apartheid years and it failed to destroy the ANC ...
[Interjections.]
Mr M L W FILTANE: Point of order, Chair.
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Minister,
take your seat. Why are you rising, hon member, and in
terms of which Rule?
Mr M L W FILTANE: I like the haircut of the Minister.
[Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Take your seat,
please. Don‘t waste our time, hon member. Don‘t waste our
time.
The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT & LAND REFORM: Hon
Chair and fellow South Africans, now during democracy,
there is also obsession about the ANC by the opposition
parties in this House who are trying to kill the ANC and
destroy it. They are spectacularly ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon
members. Order!
The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT & LAND REFORM: ...
failing to do so. There is evidence that just have been
said right now, the victory of the ANC in bi-elections,
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because members of the opposition in this House, you
fellow South Africans, you were expecting to hear from
them, viable policy alternatives to those of the ANC.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon
members.
The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT & LAND REFORM: What are
you getting? Nothing. [Applause.] We must thank the ANC,
let us thank them for helping the ANC to hone and sharpen
its policies. Thank you very much because all you do
everyday when we are sitting here, fellow South Africans
listen to you critiquing and even humiliating ...
[Interjections.]
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Point of order.
The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT & LAND REFORM: ... the
ANC. Nothing comes from that side ... [Interjections.]
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Point of order.
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The MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT & LAND REFORM: ... in
terms of viable ... [Interjections.]
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Point of order.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon Minister,
your time has now expired. Thank you. Why are you rising,
hon member?
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Yes. The time was done.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): No, hon member, I
am being advised here from the Table, the Minister‘s time
was not done.
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Yes, but I also think in terms of Rule
132, House Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Yes.
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Ministers must not abuse us. They are
supposed to respond to the statements of hon members in
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the House, not their imagination and take opportunity to
respond to everything that comes to their imagination.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon!
Mr N Q NDLOZI: Nobody spoke about the form of the ANC in
the statements made. I mean that does not exclude the
fact that it is ... [Inaudible].
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Take your seat,
please. Take your seat. The Minister‘s response was
completely in order and in line with the Rules.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (Mr M B
Masuku): Hon Chair!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon
members.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (Mr M B
Masuku): Indeed, we must congratulate premier Zille, in
the Western Cape, together with other premiers for the
work that they are doing together with the President -
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the work that they do in the Presidential Co-ordinating
Committee and in the Presidential Infrastructure Coordinating Commission, PICC.
Indeed, the numbers in tourism are a reflection of the
work that is done here. It is not only the only area,
also in the area of infrastructure; we are very confident
and very happy of the work that she is doing here. But we
must point out and also request that there is a
particular matter that we need to address here. Racism in
tourists of colour in this area is raring its head, that
needs to be challenged.
Another issue, racism around property development when
people of other colour want to come into the Western Cape
and buy property must be addressed too. That we are
raising it because it is in the context of what all the
premiers are assisting. She is excelling in the specific
area and others are excelling in other areas, for
instance, premier Mathabatha, in Limpopo is doing very
well because if you look at the differences with regard
to an increase in employment numbers. His province is
actually leading in that. So, we need to congratulate the
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premiers for the work that they do. Thank you very much.
[Applause.]
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr H D KHOSA: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move on behalf of
the ANC that at the next sitting day of the House:
The House debates the challenges with regard to the
accessibility of primary health care for farming and
some rural communities.
Mr M H REDELINGHUYS: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move on
behalf of the DA that at the next sitting day of the
House:
The House debates the importance of section 16 of the
Constitution affirming freedom of expression as a
critical cornerstone of our post apartheid
constitutional democracy, especially in the light of
State Security Minister, David Mahlobo, as attacking
the media and called for social media regulation.
[Applause.]
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Mr N PAULSEN: Hon House Chair, I hereby move on behalf of
the EFF that at the next sitting day of the House:
The House debates an alternative agricultural model
that would incorporate social cultural and
environmental benefits for poor black South
Africans.
Xitsonga:
Nkul X MABASA: Mutshamaxitulu, ndza yima ndzi susumeta hi
ku yimela ANC leswaku eka ntshamo wa siku leri nga ta
landzela wa Yindlu:
Yindlu yi jhekajhekisana hi nkoka wo seketela
mabindzu lamantsongo tanihi switirhisiwa swo
tumbuluxa na ku hangalasa rifuwo. Ndza khensa.
Mr J A EESTERHUIZEN: Hon House Chair, I hereby move on
behalf of the IFP that at the next sitting day of the
House:
This House debates that in a constitutional
democracy such as ours that Members of Parliament,
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MPs, in the highest legislative body in the land
have the right to choose which medical aid scheme
they want to belong to; that all of its members are
held hostage to a single medical aid scheme Parmed;
have no choice of freedom to contract with any other
medical aid scheme; and are subject to extraordinary
medical aid costs that have fewer benefits than most
other medical aid schemes. Thank you.
Mr S C MNCWABE: Hon House Chair, I hereby move on behalf
of the NFP that at the next sitting day of the House:
The House discusses the issue of the sharp increase
in illegal mining and its associated gang warfare in
South Africa and the cost associated there with to
the South African taxpayers.
Ms N K BILANKULU: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move on
behalf of the ANC that at the next sitting day of the
House:
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The House debates the issue of ensuring communities
desist from disrupting classes during protest
actions.
Tshivenda:
Vho N L S KWANKWA: Ndi masiari Afrika Tshipembe.
English:
I hereby move on behalf of the UDM that at the next
sitting day of the House:
The House debates high rate of road fatalities in
South Africa, its impact on the South African
economy and measures on how to reduce it. Thank you
very much.
Afrikaans:
Mnr H C C KRÜGER: Voorsitter, by die volgende sitting van
die Huis sal ek voorstel:
Dat die Huis die verdoemende rol debatteer wat
rompslomp speel in die stryd van die verlore
generasie – die stryd om deel te word van ‘n
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inklusiewe ekonomie deur middel van die begin van ‘n
kleinsake-onderneming.
Mr L MATHYS: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move on behalf of
the EFF that at the next sitting day of the House:
The House debates the gender representation and the
appointment of judges and justices.
Ms B L ABRAHAMS: Hon House Chair, I hereby move on behalf
of the ANC that at the next sitting day of the House:
The House debates strengthening and accelerating the
implementations of the mechanisms geared at
curtailing the soaring crime, especially townships.
Thank you.
Mr A TUCK: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move on behalf of
the ANC that at the next sitting day of the House:
The House debates strengthening measures aimed at
lowering the deadly effects of the increasing
scourge of tuberculosis, TB, in South Africa.
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Mr L M NTSHAYISA: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move on
behalf of the AIC that at the next sitting day of the
House:
The House debates on how to restore the dignity of
the National Assembly and how we can salvage its
official stature.
Mr A J WILLIAMS: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move on behalf
of the ANC that at the next sitting day of the House:
The House debates ways to deal with the plight of
jobless graduates in the country.
Mr C D MATSEPE: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move on behalf
of the DA that at the next sitting day of the House:
This House debates why temporary teachers are not
being re-employed in Limpopo while on the other hand
they are being re-employed in Gauteng and
Mpumalanga.
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Ms H V NYAMBI: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move on behalf
of the ANC that at the next sitting day of the House:
The House debates encouraging involvement of
communities and organisations on matters of
governance.
The House adjourned at 18:30.
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