Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised Hansard
House: National Council of Provinces
Date of Meeting: 22 Jun 2017
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
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____
PROCEEDING OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
The Council met at 14:02.
The House Chairperson: Committees, Oversight, Co-operative
Government and Intergovernmental Relations took the Chair and
requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or
meditation
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): I have been informed that the
Whippery has agreed that there will be no notice of motion or motion
without notice. The secretary will read the First Order of the day.
CRIMINAL PROCEDURE AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill and Report of the Select Committee on Security and Justice thereon)
Mr D L XIMBI: Chairperson, Ministers, delegates, Members of Parliament ...
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IsiXhosa:
... phambi kokuba ndithethe ngalo Mthetho siHlomelo oYilwayo
weNkqubo yolwaPhulo-mthetho [Criminal Procedure Amendment Bill],
ndivumele ndikhahlele kwisiThwalandwe, iqhawe, itshawe nendoda
engenamlinganiso, ubawo wethu u-Oliver Tambo kule nyanga yakhe.
Sifuna ukuthi siza kuwuthatha lo mnqamlezo kwindawo awayewubeke kuyo
siwuxwaye singumbutho wesizwe. Siyabulisa Mphathiswa ndikubonile.
English:
The National Assembly referred the Criminal Procedure Amendment
Bill, Bill 2B of 2017, to the National Council of Provinces for
concurrence on 11 May 2017. The National Council of Provinces
referred the Bill for consideration and report to the Select
Committee on Security and Justice on 11 May 2017.
The Criminal Procedure Amendment Bill, 2016, among others, emanates
from the judgment of the Constitutional Court in the case of De Vos
N 0 and Others v Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development
and Others. On 26 June 2015, the Constitutional Court declared
section 77(6)(a)(i) and (ii) of the Criminal Procedure Act, 1977,
which is Act No. 51 of 1977, to be inconsistent with the
Constitution and invalid to the extent that it provides for the
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compulsory imprisonment of an adult accused person and the
compulsory hospitalisation or imprisonment of children.
The Amendment Bill aims to amend the Principal Act so as to provide
the courts with a wider range of options in respect of orders to be
issued in cases of findings that accused persons are not capable of
understanding the criminal proceedings so as to make a proper
defense by reason of mental illness or intellectual disability.
The composition of the panels provided for in section 79 of the
Principal Act came under scrutiny in the Western Cape High Court
case of S v Pedro. The Amendment Bill further aims to clarify the
composition of the panels concerned in line with the Pedro case. The
Bill has a Constitutional deadline of 26 June 2017 for Parliament to
complete its work. The committee advertised the Bill on 25 May 2017
in national as well as local newspapers in all the official
languages calling for public comment on the Bill.
The committee received four submissions on the Bill. Three of the
submissions did not address the subject of the Bill but one
submission was acknowledged by the Department as important but did
not deal with the Constitutional Court requirement at hand.
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr.A J Nyambi): Sorry, hon Ximbi. Hon Julius,
why are you standing?
Mr J W W JULIUS: Hon Chairperson, there is a noise coming from this
side, they are talking and I cannot hear properly.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi) I sustain your point of order.
Hon members, let us have order. Continue hon Ximbi, sorry for the
...
Mr D L XIMBI: Thank you Chairperson. I said, three of the
submissions did not address the subject of the Bill but one
submission was acknowledged by the department as important but did
not deal with the Constitutional Court requirements at hand and the
department advised that it would deal with it in other legislations.
The select committee received a briefing on the Bill by the
Department of Justice and Constitutional Development on 7 June 2017.
The select committee having considered the Criminal Procedure
Amendment, Bill 2B of 2017, referred to it, agreed to the Bill
without proposing further amendments and recommends that the Council
approves the Bill. Thank you Chairperson. [Applause.]
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Debate concluded.
Declarations of vote made on behalf of the African National
Congress.
Declarations of Vote:
Mr M D MONAKEDI (ANC): Hon Chairperson, this Bill is a direct result
of two core decisions namely, Divorce versus Minister of Justice and
Correctional Development and Others as well as the State versus
Pedro wherein Parliament was ordered to effect the necessary changes
to the Criminal Procedures Act. The court has in essence found that
the sections dealing with the handling of mentally-ill or
intellectually disabled accused is inconsistent with the human
rights as entrenched in the Constitution.
The Constitutional Court thus gave Parliament the deadline of 26
June 2017 to correct these effects in order to comply with its
judgement. The court also decided in the interim, whilst Parliament
is still correcting the defects to order a temporary read-in so as
to afford the judicial officers dealing with cases under these
defective sections, discretionary powers that must be contained in
this Amendment Bill.
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Now, this Bill is seeking to effect the amendments as ordered by the
Constitutional Court and as the ANC we fully support this Amendment
Bill. We do so because we believe in the rule of law and respect for
human rights. We also believe that our people who have some form of
mental illness or suffer from some form of intellectual disability
still have dignity and must be treated humanely, especially by our
courts as guardians of justice.
This Bill also shows that as one of the three arms of state,
Parliament does adhere to the respect of separation of powers
principle, especially the role of the courts to interpret the laws
that it passes hence the need to meet the deadline as set by the
court. We again support this Amendment Bill as the ANC. Thank you
very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Bill be agreed to.
Bill accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the
Constitution.
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Mr M KHAWULA: Hon Chair, I rise on a point of order: I just want to
object that this vote was not a secrete it is too obvious.
[Laughter.]
DRAFT REGULATIONS IN TERMS OF LEGAL AID SOUTH AFRICA ACT 2014
(Consideration of Report of Select Committee on Security and
Justice)
IsiXhosa:
Mnu D L XIMBI: Sihlalo, lusuku lwam noko namhlanje.
English:
Chairperson, members and very important persons, VIPs, in the
gallery whom I didn’t see before, thank you very much. The
regulations read with the manual do not change the current position
as provided for in terms of the Legal Aid Guide. The procedures and
policy as contained in the regulations and the manual are similar to
the existing guide and there are therefore no budgetary and staffing
implications. The regulations relate mainly to the following
matters, amongst others:
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Firstly, the provision of legal aid to a sentenced or detained
person or an accused person in criminal trials if it is likely that
such person would suffer substantial injuries;
Secondly, legal aid to be granted to a witness in certain
circumstances, namely where the witness has been warned by the court
to provide incriminating evidence against himself or herself;
Thirdly, regulation 13 further provides for the granting of legal
aid in maintenance, domestic violence and harassment cases;
Fourthly, regulation 14 provides for the granting of legal aid in
labour cases, for instance in the case of assistance to certain
matters relating to farm workers;
Fourthly, legal aid may be granted for cases relating to land
rights. Provision is made for funding by the land claims commission;
Fifthly, regulation 23 regulates the provision of legal aid to
children who require legal representation, for instance to intervene
in divorce, care or maintenance proceedings between the parents of
the child if substantial justice would otherwise result; and
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Finally, regulation 25 provides for the granting of legal aid to
mental health care users in terms of the Mental Health Care Act of
2002.
It will also become involved in impact legal services including
matters which may establish a legal precedent or clarify an aspect
of the law that will be followed in dealing with indigent persons in
similar matters, which may have the potential of resolving a large
number of disputes or which may improve the lives of a group of
persons or a portion of such a group.
Therefore, the Select Committee on Security and Justice received a
briefing on the draft regulations on 31 May 2017. The committee,
having considered the subject of the draft regulations made in terms
of the Legal Aid South Africa Act of 2014 referred to it, reports
that it has agreed to the draft regulations without proposing
amendments and recommends that the National Council of Provinces
approve the draft regulations. I appeal to you sir. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Question put.
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IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal,
Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the
Constitution.
Mr W F FABER: Thank you Chairperson. Just on a point of clarity. We
have two Mpumalanga supporters here. I just don’t know whose vote
was counted. There was a vote and there was a vote. Which one did
you take Chair?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Faber, can you take your
seat? Let me take ... Order members! Hon members, yesterday the
Chairperson outlined how we have to sustain the decorum of this
august House, hoping that the rules of all the other days will apply
at all times.
Let me take this opportunity to welcome our special delegates and
Minister who are now part of our debate today. The secretary will
read the Third Order of the day.
APPROPRIATION BILL
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(Policy debate)
Vote No 36 - Water and Sanitation:
The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Chairperson, the hon Chair of
the select committee and hon members, chairpersons of our entities,
the director-general and senior management of the department,
distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, it is my singular honour
and privilege to present to this august House the Budget Vote of the
Department of Water and Sanitation for the financial year 2017/18.
This budget is based on the fundamental priorities of providing
water to all and decent sanitation. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Sorry hon Minister, can you
kindly take your seat, I want to deal with the hon Julius. Hon
Minister, there is a seat at the back. Hon Julius, why are you
standing?
Mr J W W JULIUS: Sorry for this, hon Minister, but House Chair, when
the Minister went to the podium, a rand dropped. [Laughter.] I do
not know whether I can pick it up there?
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Julius!
Mr J W W JULIUS: There is a rand there! There is a rand that dropped
there. [Interjections.] [Laughter.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Order, hon members! Hon
Julius. Hon members, can you allow me to deal with this thing. Hon
Julius, when we started, I explained what was outlined and what is
the purpose and essence of what we are dealing with. I refrained
from what you have done. You know very well that you are out of
order. So, don’t ever do anything that you know very well is not in
line with the rules and decorum of the National Council of
Provinces. Hon Minister, please continue.
The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: To realize our objectives the
department will focus on intensifying our work to review water
sector institutions as directed by the NDP. This includes: The
establishment of a National Water and Sanitation Infrastructure
Agency; the realignment of water boards and hasting with speed
towards the creation of a single water board in KwaZulu-Natal; the
transformation of irrigation boards as well as the increased
collaboration with the Department of Co-operative Governance and
Traditional Affairs, Cogta.
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We are responsible for the delivery of bulk water services to
municipalities, who in turn have been mandated by legislation to
reticulate and deliver the basic services to communities. Experience
has shown that, more often than not, where we have delivered bulk
services, some of our municipalities have either failed to invest
adequately in reticulation of infrastructure and/or failed to
operate and maintain such infrastructure. In response, we have began
a process together with Cogta, the Municipal infrastructure Agency
as well as the Development Bank of South Africa and the National
Treasury, to seek means that will regularise our collective
interventions in support of. The 27 priority districts under the
Back to Basics programme are a case in point.
Current outstanding municipal water debts are excessively high and
threaten the delivery of services. Currently, the department is owed
R2.7 billion by municipalities. Just to select one, Mangaung owes
our Bloemwater R250 million. Success has been recorded through
invoking an intergovernmental relations process to recover
outstanding debt in the OR Tambo District Municipality and the same
will be pursued elsewhere.
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To respond to some of the above challenges experienced over the last
period, we have since initiated a legislative review of the national
Water Services Acts. A draft Bill will be presented for
consideration by Cabinet and Parliament within the current financial
year. Equally, we have also adopted, as the government of the
Republic of South Africa, a national sanitation policy in 2016.
Experience in the delivery of sanitation services and the
eradication of buckets has shown that it would be wasteful to merely
deliver toilets without attending to the bulk sewer and waste water
treatment works. Distinction must also be made between the Bucket
Eradication Programme and our Rural Sanitation Programme. Future
developments in this regard will be pursued with an emphasis on the
use of alternative sanitation solutions with less reliance on water.
This budget is presented on the backdrop of a devastating drought
that has plagued our country over the last three years. Currently,
the Western Cape province is the worst hit with dam levels at a low
of 22.7%. As we have done in other provinces in the past, where we
worked on several short cuts ... [Interjections.] ... – I am the
only Minister of Water - medium and long-term interventions, we are
now engaged in support interventions to save the Western Cape, as
exemplified by the recent Water Indaba held in Rawsonville. Working
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together with the province, we are committed to accelerate the Berg
River-Voelvlei phase 1 augmentation scheme to allow us to divert
surplus winter water into the Voelvlei Dam, raising of the
Clanwilliam Dam, the Table Mountain Group Aquifer, the promotion of
re-use technologies, as well as learning from Richards Bay
Desalination Plan to consider possible similar situations in the
Western Cape.
As I have said, let us stop politicising water supply. We are here
to serve the people of South Africa. The residents of the Western
cape are part of the people of South Africa, don’t claim them. We
are a government of the people of the Republic of South Africa
including the communities in Khayelitsha and Kynsna because we care.
[Applause.]
Our Regional Bulk Infrastructure Projects are budgeted for and
implemented over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework ...
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr.A J Nyambi): Sorry hon Minister, hon Faber
why are you standing?
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Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, I would like to know if the Minister
would take a question?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): NO! Order members! Hon
Minister, are you ready to take a question?
The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: I am ready to present my
budget speech.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, she is not ready; take
your seat hon Faber. Continue hon Minister.
The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Let me remind that as a
department we deal with multiyear projects whose implementation
spans periods of two to five years and at times beyond. We don’t
deal with annual projects. We deal with projects that go beyond an
annual budget plan. A semblance of new projects do exists in our
programme.
Hon Chairperson and members, water security for the present and the
future remains critical for creating certainty. To mention, just a
few of our infrastructure projects: UMzimvubu Water Scheme will
create 5 000 employment opportunities in the construction phase and
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3 700 post construction in the Eastern Cape. This will also result
in water supply to over 726 000 people for the first time,
Setswana: 14:26:15
... le bona ke batho.
English:
In the Lesotho Highlands Water Project, we are now at Phase II of
the project that will augment the Vaal River System. The Acid Mine
Drainage programme is an intervention made by us to attend to the
three water basins in the Witwatersrand. The Vaal Gamagara water
project in the Northern Cape entails the development of a
432 kilometer pipeline.
Hon Chairperson and members, the following are the key augmentation
schemes to support water security in South Africa: The ClanWilliam
Dam Wall and Irrigation Scheme in the Western Cape; the Raising of
Tzaneen Dam in Limpopo; the Lower Thukela Regional Bulk Water Scheme
in KwaZulu-Natal which will supply additional water to the coastal
and inland areas of KwaDukuza and Mandeni; the Mogalakwena Bulk
Water Supply with 94 000 people standing to benefit in the Waterberg
area; the Namakwa Bulk Water Supply Scheme in the Northern Cape is
set to benefit 11 500 people; the Hoxane Water Treatment Works in
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Mpumalanga, Phases I and II are now complete, we are now embarking
on phase three that will attend to 23 villages; the Mokolo Crocodile
West Augmentation Scheme will be a pipeline of 160 kilometres to
transfer water from the Crocodile River West near Thabazimbi to the
Lephalale area; the Lushushwane Bulk Water Supply in Mpumalanga is
targeted to be completed this year in the month of October to attend
to the communities in Gert Sibande in Mpumalanga; the Giyani
Intervention, a close out report on the Phase I has now been
received and we will proceed to Phase II.
Hon Chair our budget vote per programme will be as follows:
R1.6 billion allocated to administration; R816 million allocated to
water planning and information management; R12.2 billion is
allocated to water resources infrastructure; and R411 million to
water sector regulation. Our entire budget for this year is
R15 billion. The total amount for the infrastructure programme is
R9.8 billion; R5.7 billion is for Regional Bulk Infrastructure
Programme; R3.9 billion is for water services; and R241 million for
Accelerated Community Infrastructure Programme.
The grant budget that was revised downwards had to accommodate the
cuts received from National Treasury. An amount of R1.8 billion is
put towards water infrastructure whilst R 350 million is set aside
for the Bucket Eradication Programme.
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Hon Chairperson and hon members, this department has also alluded to
the fact that we will be spending R5.7 billion on programmes related
to the Regional Bulk Infrastructure Grant. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Wait hon Minister, hon Essack
why are you standing?
Mr F ESSACK: Chairperson, on a point of order, seeing that the
Minister has such a good story to tell, would she please take an
innocent question?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Minister, are you ready
to take a question?
The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: listen to my speech maybe you
will find the answer.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Take your seat hon Essack.
Sorry hon Minister, let me take the hon ... hon Essack, take your
seat. Yes, hon Chief Whip.
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The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Chair, I want
to request our fellow colleagues that it is against established
convention in this House to ask questions when Ministers are tabling
a vote. It is against established convention. We normally allow
members of the Executive to table and then members debate the vote.
Therefore, there’s a Speaker’s List in that regard. I appeal Chair,
with the spirit of what you said earlier that members must cooperate.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele, can you please
behave. Allow me to make a ruling. Hon members, when we started I
said that pertaining to the decorum of the House it is entirely up
to us as members of this House and the hon Minister when presenting
the budget, it a convention that we allow the Minister to present
the budget and then we are going to debate the budget after it has
been presented. So, let us allow the Minister to present the budget.
Please continue hon Minister. Hon Julius.
Mr J W W JULIUS: Chair, I just want to reiterate and remind the
Chief Whip of this Council that he is not the Chief Whip of the ANC;
he is the Chief Whip of this Council. Ever since he came into that
Chair, he is always defending the ANC. Thank you.
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Julius, it is common
cause, he is the Chief Whip of the National Council of Provinces, he
is not the Chief Whip of a party. Hon Faber, why are you standing?
Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, I do totally agree with you on that point
that the Minister is here to present the whole debate, but I want to
... [Interjections.] ... I am getting to it, please give me a
chance.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, hon Nthebe. Hon Faber,
you are even wrong, you can’t talk to hon Nthebe.
Mr W F FABER: ... [Inaudible.] ... the debate comes from two sides
and that we will be able to debate it on the second time that she
will take questions?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Faber, can you take your
seat. Let us allow the hon Minister to continue. Hon Minister, can
you continue with it.
The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Thank you very much. The
allocation of the Regional Bulk Infrastructure Grants per province
are as follow: We have already started to work together with our
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water boards and a total of R1.1 billion that has been appropriated
to the water boards will be for the implementation of our bulk
projects. The water boards that will benefit are: Umgeni Water;
Amatola Water; Sedibeng Water; and Magalies Water.
In Mpumalanga Province, we will be spending an amount of
R302 million towards 18 water infrastructure development and
maintenance projects. The Eastern Cape will receive an amount of
R855 million for this financial year focusing on: The OR Tambo
District Municipality; Xhonxa Bulk Water Supply and Middleburg
Ground Water Supply in Chris Hani; and in Sarah Baartman District
Municipality.
Limpopo will receive a total of R1.1 billion for the projects that
are currently under construction. In the North West we will allocate
R459 million to implement more than 14 projects in that province. In
the Northern Cape we will allocate R605 million for their Bulk
infrastructure projects. In KwaZulu-Natal a total amount of
R1.2 billion would be allocated, focusing amongst others, in the
Jozini Bulk water Scheme and uThukela as well as the JoziniIngwavuma Bulk water Supply.
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Hon Chair, the Free State will receive R703 million this financial
year with 18 projects that will be attended to. Lastly, Gauteng will
actually receive R300 million allocated to six projects and as I
have said we are a government of the people of South Africa. We
Western Cape shall be allocated to serve the people of South Africa,
yes, under the DA government but for the people of South Africa. An
amount of R31 million focusing on Calitzdorp, Citrus and Clanwilliam
as well as the desalination project in Cederberg. Hon Chair, the
Accelerated Community Infrastructure Programme will receive R241 and
the Water Service Infrastructure Grant will receive R3.7 billion.
On sanitation infrastructure, we are currently focusing on the Free
State and the Northern Cape. These two provinces have about 25 483
buckets that still need to be attended to. We can now confirm that
no more bucket toilets exist in the formal areas of Gauteng,
KwaZulu-Natal, Mpumalanga, Limpopo and North West Province save in
their informal settlements. [Applause.]
Hon Chair, in conclusion, allow me to say that, it is our esteemed
goal to ensure that our delivery of service to our people is
efficient and effective; and that we commit ourselves to applying
financial prudence in the disbursement of the budget. Also I want to
urge members of the National Council of Provinces, water must not be
politicised. There maybe people who want to play politics and
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previously when we were dealing with draught in other provinces,
there was an assumption that we want to play politics, however, now
it is in the Western Cape, because we are a government of the people
of South Africa based on the will of the people, we are working very
well with the MEC and the executive mayor in the Western Cape
because South Africa belongs to all who live in it. Therefore, I
hope that when this August House engages, you who are also committed
to some provinces and political parties, will learn from KwaZuluNatal how they have been able to intervene and use desalination and
you, in a province that has two oceans, you can’t ignore
desalination. Learn from the best, ...
IsiZulu: 14:36:28:16
... indlela ibuzwa kwabaphambili. [Ihlombe.]
English:
That is what we are working on and there is work in progress.
I would like to also thank team water in South Africa ...
[Interjections.]
Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, on a point of order, you were saying that
we must not interrupt the Minister when she is presenting to us. But
usually the Minister gets a second chance to bite at the apple, she
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does not get a second chance. So, my question to you is, when will
we be able to ask the Minister relevant questions if she is not on
the Order Paper later?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Faber, order members.
Order! I do not need any assistance. Hon Faber, you are posing a
question to me and I will respond to your question because you are
even distorting what I said here. Minister, you are protected,
please continue and conclude.
The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Thank you Chair, in
conclusion, I really want to thank the people of South Africa, over
the past three years we have been going through serious draughts
that have last been seen in the past 100 years that we were able to
work together, were able to appreciate that we are the 30th driest
country in the world. We have been able to appreciate that it can’t
be business as usual.
I also want to thank provincial governments that have risen to the
call and they have been able to make a huge difference. I would
also, without failure, want to commend our municipalities,
especially those municipalities that have never ever had access to
water and they persevered. To those who are as yet to be served,
South Africa, through this government will reach out to you because
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just yesterday more than 27 villages in Giyane did not have water
and today 47 villages in Giyane are drinking clean pipe water. Today
is better than yesterday and tomorrow will be better than today.
Dankie, ngiyabonga. [Applause.]
Ms L C DLAMINI: My greetings to you hon Chairperson, hon members,
hon Minister. Hon Minister, we missed you a lot in the committee.
Hon Chairperson, understanding the transformation programme of the
country as well as the water situation of our people as the select
committee we felt that it will be prudent that we support the
budget, and after looking at all the programmes and projects that
the Minister has alluded to, we felt that it will indeed change the
lives of our people for better.
Water availability is a critical component of economic development
and growth as it is essential for achieving the outcomes of
sustainable development. You cannot have investors in areas where
there is no water. So, we feel that water is very much important for
economic development.
South Africa is a water scarce country and the lack of available
bulk water is considered a constraint to economic development.
Access to water and sanitation is not only important for economic
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development, but for ensuring that basic human needs are met and
human dignity is guaranteed. Therefore, access to adequate and safe
drinking water is a basic human right and together with adequate
sanitation, it is regarded as an important issue for addressing
social inequality in our country.
As we know that many black people in South Africa were not provided
with access to municipal services before 1994; this resulted in
inadequate access to water and sanitation. In the homelands,
municipal services were often non existent, where they existed; they
were available and failed in most cases in the township. The lack of
public services often contributed to high incidences of water borne
diseases such as diarrhoea and cholera.
No doubt that there is significant progress that has been made in
improving access to water and sanitation and meeting basic needs
since 1994. Effort has been directed towards refurbishment and
routine water supply maintenance in terms of water and sanitation
infrastructure. Major bulk water infrastructure projects were
undertaken and commissioned, including the Lesotho Highlands Water
Scheme, the Vaal River Eastern Subsystem Augmentation Project, the
De Hoop Dam, the Umzimvubu Catchment Area Project and the Berg River
Water Project, which started to augment water supply in Cape Town.
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Many of the bulk water resource projects were made possible by
the establishment of the Trans-Caledon Tunnel Authority, as an
agency of the Department of Water and Sanitation. It should be noted
that the quality and quantity of water supplies in South Africa
depend on the ability of the country to save water, prevent
leakages, eradicate pollution, operate and maintain wastewater
plants. Provision was therefore made for Catchment Management
Agencies, CMAs, and authorities in legislation introduced during the
late 1990’s to deal with such issues. It is imperative that the
Department of Water and Sanitation continue to work tirelessly to
ensure that the people of South Africa have access to adequate and
safe drinking water as well as dignified sanitation services for our
people to have their dignity.
The Department of Water and Sanitation has made significant progress
in ensuring that the availability of water resources, facilitating
equitable and sustainable socioeconomic development and improving
access to water and sanitation services. Approximately 4 718 dams
are registered with the Dam Safety Office in South Africa and this
includes privately owned dams and those owned by the Department of
Water and Sanitation. South Africa also, has about 21 key water
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source areas of which, only 16% of them are formally protected as
nature reserves or parks.
Hon Minister, we are saying do consider to make sure that these 21
key water source areas are protected because they will assist the
country in the future.
The National Development Plan’s ,NDP, vision 2030 highlights two
strategic goals of eliminating poverty and sharply reducing
inequality with associated objectives to ensure their achievement.
For the water and sanitation sector the NPD proposes improving
infrastructure by prioritising new key water schemes to supply urban
and industrial centres and establishing a national water
conservation programme. However, the expectation is for the sector
to contribute to the creation of 11 million jobs by 2030; meaning
that provision of water is not only for drinking but also has to
contribute in job creation.
The Department has prioritised a number of infrastructure projects
for the period 2017-2018. I will only mention a few. Some of them
the Minister has alluded about them. One of them is the Olifants
River Water Resources; De Hoop Dam; the Groot Letaba River
Development which is in Tzaneen Dam.
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The Dam Safety Rehabilitation Programme ... my problem Minister is
that we are still using the old names, maybe we have to do name
change in your department. Most of them are in Afrikaans, so, I have
a problem with that; not the language itself but it is my attitude
towards that.
Hon Minister, as you have indicated in terms of uMzimvubu Water
Project, that it is one of the projects we are concerned as a
committee that there has been a slow progress. You will remember
that this was pronounced by the President in 2014, but in terms of
progress that project it is very slow if there is a programme.
In terms of water and sanitation services, access has increased
significantly since 1994, although service delivery in rural areas
still remains a work in progress. The department has made progress
with the eradication of the bucket system in informal areas,
although there are remaining bucket, but we appreciate the progress
that has been made so far. An estimated 26 957 bucket sanitation
systems have been eradicated as at May 2017. We do acknowledge that
there are still remaining bucket systems but we appreciate the
progress that has been made so far.
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Chairperson, we present this progress in terms of the provinces
being conscious of the fact that the history of the provinces is not
the same. Some provinces had Bantustan. So, you cannot compare
provinces which had Bantustan before with those that did not have
Bantustan. Also, in terms of development there were provinces which
were developed first before others as we know Cape Town. So, it
should not be understood as if some provinces are remaining behind.
In terms of water provision with regards to access to piped water,
it was estimated that by 2016, 99,2 per cent of households in the
Western Cape had access to piped water and Gauteng followed with
97%; Northern Cape 96%, the Free State 96,1% North West with 86%,
Mpumalanga 85%, KwaZulu Natal, 84%, Limpopo 78 followed by the
Eastern Cape with 74%.As indicated earlier that it should be noted
that these provinces some of them did not have Bantustan and some
were Bantustan as provinces.
Hon Minister we have noticed that there has been a decrease in your
budget if you look at the inflation rate. The largest decrease in
the budget allocation has been observed in Programme 3, which is
Water Infrastructure Development, which experienced a real percent
decrease of 9,8%. For the 2016-2017 financial year, the department
spent 101%. We are raising an issue here hon Minister, we know that
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the department is still fairly new. We cannot say it is new, but we
realised that in terms of spending the budget and also the
performance of project there is no correlation between the two.
During 2015-2016, in terms of performance, the department was below
50%, but in terms of budget expenditure, it was above 90%. We are
saying it is either there is a problem of planning or there is
something that we are not sure of. We are saying take note of that
so that you are aware and when you present programmes we know that
they will be implemented.
We are also worried about the monies owed by municipalities to water
boards and funding of water boards. We indicated in the committee
that not all water boards are funded by the department. We are still
not sure why others are not funded. During our interaction with the
water boards and the department in 2015, we requested that the
department holds the Water Indaba because the issue of water boards
is a serious matter hon Minister. I do not know how sustainable it
is. I will make an example of the Free State. During the pre visit
in the Free State at Gariep District, we realised that there has
been water cuts by Bloem Water as you indicated because it is owed
by the municipalities. But then we know that our people especially
at the rural areas are not paying services at the municipalities. At
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the end of the day communities suffer because of that. We request
that you engage with the Minister of Co-operative Governance and
Traditional Affairs, Cogta, and see how best can you resolve that.
We cannot agree that people should suffer because somebody has not
been paid.
We visited health facilities and when we were it was so painful to
see that the hospital did not have water; almost all hospitals and
clinics and some members where they were sleeping did not have water
to bath. It is a serious matter that needs attention.
Hon Minister, we are also concerned about the Water Trading Entity
that has an overdraft of R2,6 billion. We still want to know how
they came to that. I heard that it is being owed by municipalities,
but understanding our municipalities, the question is, are they
going to be able to pay? Can we apply our minds and see how best we
can deal with these issues because if you look at the status of some
of the municipalities they may not be able to pay. We also want
clarity what is this money for? How was the entity allowed to have
such an overdraft?
South Africa has experienced a severe drought that has been in all
the provinces that were declared as disaster areas during the past
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two years. While rainfall has increased in most parts of the
country, the Western Cape has experienced one of the worst droughts
in recent history, which has entered its third year. These weather
patterns, exacerbated by climate change, are expected to persist and
increase in the near future and it is important that budget cuts and
constraints do not hinder continued service delivery of critical
services such as water and sanitation to the people of South Africa.
The select committee supports the budget. Thank you. [Applause.
IsiXhosa:
Nks T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Sihlalo weNdlu, Mphathiswa namalungu ale
Ndlu –
English:
It says seven minutes and forty seconds; please justice, fairness
and equality must be served.
IsiXhosa:
Uxolo tata, andikwazi tu ukwamkela ixesha elinje. Sihlalo weNdlu
ohloniphekileyo ndicela ukulungisa uMphathiswa. Xa bendisiza apha
emsebenzini namhlanje kwindlela iDe Waal Drive, ndive ukuba amaqondo
amanzi akwi-12,5 ekhulwini. Inokuba kuphambi kokuba ungene
esibhedlele ngokuya ububona eli nani ulibizayo. Alikho eli ulibizayo
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kuba mna ndithetha into yanamhlanje hayi phambi kokuba ungene
esibhedlele.
UNozakuzaku waseSouth Korea uBan Kin Moon nonguNobhala weSizwe
eziManyeneyo wathi xa ethetha ngenye imini:
Saving our planet, lifting people out of poverty, advancing
economic growth ... these are one and the same fight. We must
connect the dots between climate change, water scarcity, energy
shortages, global health, food security and women's empowerment.
Solutions to one problem must be solutions for all.
Nanjengoko sisazi ukuba singuMzantsi Afrika besikhe sanengxaki
sayintlekisa ngenxa yeziganeko zexesha lamandulo zokungalingani.
Nanjengoko sisazi ukuba sathintelwa kumalungelo ethu ekufikeleleni
kwiinkonzo ezininzi. Kanti ke ngoku akusenjalo, kungcono kunakuqala.
Abemi baseMzantsi Afrika banelungelo lokufikelela kwiinkonzo zamanzi
nangona ukufikelela nokuxhamla oku kunemiqathango nemigqaliselo
eyiyo.
Ndifuna ukubuza lo mbuzo buciko othi, Mphathiswa singabakhupha njani
abantu bethu kwintlupheko kunye nokunyusa umgangatho wokukhula
kwezoqoqosho xa singafumani zinkonzo zamanzi ezifanelekileyo
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njengesizwe. Ingxaki yenkohlakalo nayo idlale indima enkulu
ekusetyenzisweni kweenkonzo zamanzi wethu. Ukwandiswa kwengeniso
yamaqumrhu emigodi apho iiGuptas abakwizihlalo eziphezulu zeebhodi
zihlala zisomba kwaye beqokelela amanzi kwimimandla yethu. Oku
akulindelekanga kwaphela kubantu abangengabo abemi boMzantsi Afrika.
Kutheni sibeka phambili ingeniso endaweni yeemfuno nobomi babantu?
Ummandla waseMakana phaya eRhini apho banentsokolo yokunqongophala
kwamanzi usakhala oko. Le mbalela ayiyekanga kwaye ayichaphazeli
ummandla waseRhini kuphela koko le ngxaki ikhona kulo lonke. Amanzi
alilungelo elingundoqo kwaye kumaphondo onke kukho imigqaliselo
yokuwasebenzisa. Imibhobho ehamba amanzi ayikwazi ukuba iwagcine
kakuhle kuba ayilungiswa rhoqo nto leyo ebangela ukuba imbalela
iqatsele.
Singayilungisa njani le ngxaki? UMphathiswa Mokonyane akathathi
nonyawo malunga neengxaki okanye imiba echaphazela iSebe lezaManzi
noGutyulo kodwa uthi xa ethetha nephondo laseNtshona Koloni
liyabonelelwa. Ndikhe ndambona ehamba noMboro eRhawutini
bethandazela imvula kodwa khange ndimbone kwimithandazo yalapha
kodwa uthi siphethwe ngokufanayo. Andazi ke ukuba sahluke njani na
thina kwiGauteng xa nathi sifuna imanzi.
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Ndifuna ukuyichaza ukuba inempembelelo yemeko yaseLesotho Highlands
athe wathetha ngayo uMphathiswa. Indima endlelwa ngoomasipala
ibaluleke kakhulu xa kushukuxwa imiba elolu hlobo. Oomasipala
kufuneka banyanzeliswe ekuthatheni uxanduva lokuhlawula isixa mali
se-3,6 sezigidi ngezigidi netsalwa kwiibhodi zamanzi ezahlukeneyo.
Sixelelwe ukuba benze isicwangciso sokuyihlawula le mali rhoqo
ngenyanga ukukhawulelana neli tyala linagaka. Eli tyala liyingxaki
kuba lichaphazela ulungiselelo lweenkonzo zamanzi ezibalulekileyo.
Injongo yethu, singumbutho we-DA, yeyokuba asifuni kuphoxa bantu
bethu ngento elilungelo kubo. Sifuna ukonyula abaphathi abaza kuthi
bathabathele uxanduva kubo nabaza kuthi bahlangabezane nolalwulo
olusebenza iintsuku zonke. Sifuna kananjalo ukuba siphumeze umthetho
othi wasebenzise ngokukuko amanziokanye uphulukane nawo. Loo nto iya
kuthi iqinisekise uncedo lweebhodi zamanzi kumaziko amanzi
kooMasipala abangaphumeleliyo ukufekisa imisebenzi yabo. Sithi
injongo yobuchule bokucwangcisa yethu yokutshintsha nokuthintela
ukudilika kwamaziko amanzi aseMzantsi Afrika mayibe ngumngqaphambili. Sifuna ukubeka iliso elibukhali kungcoliseko lwemilambo
yethu ngokonyula ii-Blue Scorpions ezigunyazisa umthetho wokuba
kohlwaywe lowo wenza ungcoliseko.
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Asifihli makhuba kulinywa thina. Asisayi kuyitshabalalisa intlupheko
okanye siqhubele phambili ukukhulisa uqoqosho ukuba asihlangabezani
nezi ngxaki. Ndifuna ukuyithathela ingqalelo into yokuba xa
sisematyaleni loo nto yenza ukuba uqoqosho lwethu luchaphazeleke.
Ingaba siya kuze sibenemali ngokwaneleyo kusini na ukuhlangabezana
nala matyala? Ohloniphekileyo umntwana kaDlamini uyichaphazele le
nto yamatyala kwaye bendiqala ukumva ethetha inyaniso kangaka.
Uyivezile nento yokuba phaya eGariep Dam abantu abawafumani amanzi
kodwa uMphathiswa uthe xa ethetha apha wayihombisa kwangathi konke
kulungile. Ukuba kukho into engumceli-mngeni makatsho uMphathiswa
ukuze nathi sikwazi ukuba simhlangabeze.
Sihlalo, ndinike imvume ndihlabe amadlala kurhulumente ophetheyo weANC. Benza izithembiso bagqibe bangazizalisekisi. Uthi uBrenda
Fassie, ―Promises turn to lies‖. Ndakhe ndamva owayengumongameli
weli, uThabo Mbeki ethetha ngotshabalaliswa kwamabhakethi elindle
esithi aya kuphela ngowama-2014. Namhlanje uMphathiswa uthi ayikho
loo nto. Kumaphondo onke alapha kweli, ayikho indawo engenawo
amabhakethi, nditsho nalapha kweli lethu iphondo kodwa sinalo
iqhinga lokuqubisana nawo thina.
Intsokolo nendlala kunye nemiba yokunqongophala kwamanzi enokuba
nefuthe elingafanelekanga ezimpilweni zabantu. Iziganeko zexesha
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lobunzima lembalela zidlala indima nokunqongophala kwamanzi kwaye
oku kungaphezulu kwamandla ethu nangona iinjongo zethu ukukwenza
ukuba ibe luxcanduva lwethu ukulondoloza amanzi. Ndifuna ukuba uye
phaya eFreyistatha eGariep Dam unike abantu iinkonzo kuba impilo
yabantu eziklinikhi nasezibhedlele iyachaphazeleka.
Imali ebiyelweyo ezi-3,5 yezigidi ngezigidi nesebe lethu elifuna
ukuba ihlawulwe njenge sibonelelo esinemiqathango (conditional
grant) ayivunywa yi-PFMA loo nto. Makazincede angayi nokuya apho. Xa
ndiququmbela, ndivumele Sihlalo ndithi amanzi asiyonto yokuba
astyenziswe kwizinto zopolitiko kube kusithiwa iNtshona Koloni ithe
yathi. Amanzi yinto elilungelo lomntu wonke ngokoMgaqo-Siseko.
Makungadlalwa ngawo. Amanzi silungelo labantu. Isidima sabantu
siyehla ukuba ugutyulo lwelindle aluthathelwa ngqalelo. Nditsho kule
ndawo uMphathiswa athethe ngayo yogutyulo lwelindle. Ndiyabulela.
IsiZulu:
Mnu M KHAWULA: Mhlonishwa Sihlalo, mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe, Mumbo,
umbiko wokusebenza koMnyango Wezamanzi Nokuthuthwa Kwendle kulonyaka
wezezimali ophelile ukhomba isimo esintengayo kakhulu ukufeza
izidingo. Lokhu kubonakala kulokho umnyango ozibekele wona ngowawo
ukukufeza kodwa okukhomba ukwehluleka okunqala okufinyela kulezi
zifiso zawo umnyango. [targets] Ngingabalula nje ezifisweni zawo
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umnyango eziyikhulu neshumi, kubonakala umnyango ufeza kuphela
ezingamashumi amane, wehluleka ukufeza ezingamashumi ayisikhombisa.
Lokhu kuyisilinganiso ezingamaphesenti angamashumi amathathu
nesithupha [36%] kuphela kulokho umnyango okwazile ukukufeza. Lokhu
kuyizinga eliphansi kakhulu lokusebenza. Okumangazayo kulokhu
kwehluleka ukufeza izifiso wukuthi kuhambisana nezinga eliphezulu
lokusebenza kwenkece okungama phesenti angamashumi
ayisishiyagalolunye nesishiyagalombili [98%] Umbuzo uzothi, uma
kanti inkece isebenza kangaka kanti pho ibisenzani uma nangaphezu
kwalokhu kusetshenziswa kwayo kepha izifiso [targets] singazange
zifezwe? Iqala lapho inkukhu ukuwusola umgqakazo.
English:
Money is spent wholesomely but targets are not achieved, this is
very strange. The findings by the Auditor-General speak volumes
about financial mismanagement in the department. The Auditor-General
reports as follows in the leadership of the department:
There was inadequate oversight responsibility regarding
financial reporting as well as related internal controls. There
was inadequate monitoring that established and communicated
policies and procedures relating to asset management not
adhered to.
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The Auditor-General reports as follows on financial and performance
management of the department:
There were inadequate controls over daily and monthly
processing of transactions and reconciling of information and
reports that support the financial statements. There was
inadequate review of the financial statements to ensure that
they are supported and evidenced by sufficient and appropriate
schedules and registers. There was inadequate review and
monitoring of compliance with applicable legislation.
The sum total of this poor management collapsed the camel’s back.
The department found itself with accruals of R550 million and
payables of R220 million resulting in about R770 million, in total.
And in the 2016-17 financial year, whose report we expect in
September, this figure is projected to rise to R1,5 billion. At the
end of the 2015-16 financial year, the department, realising its own
mess, decided to pursue the path of malicious compliance and
returned about R189 million to Treasury to avoid generating further
unauthorised expenditure which would have escalated their
unauthorised expenditure by about R350 million. The department is in
such crisis that it entered the 2016-17 financial year with
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R9,5 billion worth of commitments, leaving it with roughly
R6 billion of its budget.
IsiZulu: 15:06:23
Kuyaphawuleka ukuthi kuze kube wumhlaka-31 kuMashi 2017 ngoba
sengishilo, umnyango ubukweleta izinkampani osebenzisana nazo inani
lenkece ezingu-R1,5 billion. Uma ubuza ngalokhu, umnyango uphendule
ngokuthi uhlele ukusebenzisa inkece yesabelomali [budget] ka-201718, yona le esizoyiphasisa ukukhokha lezi zikweleti ezindala.
Ngamanye amazwi, lomnyango ungena kunyaka wezimali omusha nesisini
sika-R1,5 billion emalini entsha esithi thina sikhuluma ngayo.
Phakathi kwezidingo ezinqala zokuphila ezihamba phambili ezimpilweni
zabantu eNingizimu Afrika singabala amanzi, ugesi, imigwaqo,
imisebenzi nokunye.
Kepha kuzo zonke lezi zidingo esithi zihamba phambili, amanzi
anqenqeza wodwa kuqala ngoba umuntu akaphili ngaphandle kwamanzi
kepha umnyango uyahluleka wukuphakela abantu amanzi ngendlela
ephusile neyenelisayo. Laphaya KwaZulu-Natal sinesikhalo seminyaka
sedamu eJozini okuze kube yimanje amanzi niweqisa izintaba,
namagquma namawa kepha abantu bendawo bebe bengawaphuzi. Owaye
ngumeya ohloniphekile uMnu uVilane wenza umkhonyovu wathenga
amapayipi agcina ngokuba abe yizimbali angawusiza ngalutho
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umphakathi. Esifundeni [district] sase-Zululand lokhu kunesizemazema
sohlelo [scheme] oSuthu esaqala eminyakeni eminingi eyedlule
eziwumgodi awugcwali.
Ngibikile kumhlonishwa uNgqongqoshe ukuthi nakulomsebenzi kunuka
santungwana. Ithimba le-ANC liholwa umhlonishwa uMphephethwa, lifike
laphaya ngonyaka ka-2015 lanikwa izilinganiso ezingafani zenkece
ekuthiwa isebenzile kulomsebenzi. Mayelana nokwehluleka komnyango
ukuqeda nya amabhakede endle emalokishini, ngingasho ngithi,
babusiseka abantu ba-Kwazulu-Natal ngobuholi boMtwana wakwa
Phindangene, uHulumeni wakwaZulu omdala owawuholwa nguMtwana wafica
kukhona lokhu ezindaweni eziningi kepha kwathi kushaya u-1994
kuwelelwa entandweni yeningi, uMtwana wabe esewuqede nya ukuthuthwa
kwendle ngamabhakede emalokishini. Wakuqeda KwaMashu, eMlaza,
eNtuzuma, KwaMakhutha nakwezinye izindawo. Emalokishini wonke akhiwa
wuHulumeni wakwaZulu emuva kwalokhu, akhiwa wuMtwana. Alikho
nelilodwa elakhelwa izindlu zangasese ezithuthelwa indle
ngamabhakede. Lapho singabala amalokishi afana naseSikhawini,
Ezakheni, Ulundi, Gamalakhe, eMandeni kwaSithebe, iHambanathi
kwaMsane. Lokhu kukhombisa indlela iqembu leNkatha Yenkululeko kanye
nendlela uMtwana ka Phindangene ahlonipha ngayo isithunzi somuntu.
Ngiyathokoza Sihlalo.
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English:
Ms D B NGWENYA: No pressure. Chairs, hon members, we as the EFF,
reject the Water and Sanitation budget. We do so primarily because,
one, we have no confidence in the ability of Minister Mokonyane to
lead this very critical portfolio, which requires one with
ideational capacity and foresight. Minister Mokonyane has time and
again exposed herself not to particularly care when it comes to the
people of the Republic of South Africa. Her remarks while
celebrating the firing of Pravin Gordhan that they will go ahead
looting the country, and that when the Rand falls, they will pick it
up ; shows that this is a person concerned with factional battles
over the interests of our country.
Secondly, we reject this Budget Vote because the department under
Minister Mokonyane has not prioritised the need for safeguarding the
use of our water resources, critically endangered as they may be. In
a response to one of our questions to her last year, she indicated
that there were about 56 mining companies operating without water
use licences in this country. This is important for a number of
reasons: According to the Water Allocation Reform programme of the
department, whose aim is to ensure equitable access to water, mining
and other industrial activities must be granted licences to use
water, which they have to pay for. So, failure by the department to
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monitor these mines not only leads to an injudicious use of a scarce
natural resource by unscrupulous companies, but also deprives the
country of revenue. There is a massive problem of acid mine
drainage. This basically is created when water mixes with coal and
other rocks unearthed during mining, taking on toxic levels of
minerals and heavy metals. This toxic water leaks out of abandoned
mines to contaminate groundwater, streams, soil, plants, animals and
humans. As a result, an orange colour can blanket the river, killing
plants and making surface water unusable as drinking water. Areas
around Johannesburg, some areas in Mpumalanga, such as Carolina, are
deeply affected by this.
The result is that water from natural streams and rivers is deemed
unusable as a result. So again, we are losing massive water
resources as a result of government ineptitude when it comes to
water resource allocation and monitoring. More seriously, you have
allowed mining companies to do as they wish for far too long.
Thirdly, there is currently no science that manufactures water, it
is a natural resource. To get it, we depend, primarily on rain, and
secondarily on the capacity of our ecosystem to store and reticulate
water. Currently, our rivers, wetlands, and grasslands face
unprecedented threats from development that would in normal
societies not get environmental authority.
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Again here, as a leader of this portfolio, you have not engaged with
your colleague from Environmental Affairs to ensure that these
critical sources of water are protected from injudicious
exploitation. You cannot undo the damage done to the natural
environment Minister, the same way you cannot pick up a Rand once it
has fallen. You need to be decisive, and you need to stop bickering
about, defending Mr Zuma. Lastly, we have two pieces of legislation
that are important when it comes to water provision: Water Services
Act of 1997 and National Water Act of 1998. The Water Services Act,
WSA, serves as a vehicle towards ensuring right of access to water
and sanitation, while the National Water Act, NWA Act; serves as a
legal tool that posits water sector transformation agenda for water
resource management.
These are important because pre-1994, water use and ownership were
tied with land ownership. Those who owned land also owned the water
in that land, under it and above. They got this power from the 1956
Water Act, I am teaching you now. So, what these two pieces of
legislation attempted to do was to make water a public resource. But
because the state does not have full control and ownership over the
land on which we get water, in real terms the state does not own the
water. That is why it must be shocking to all of us when we are told
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that out of more than 5 000 registered dams in this country, only
320 are owned by the state, the rest are in private hands. Just to
mention, Minister ...
IsiZulu:
Isithunzi somuntu onsundu asibalulekile kuwena Mongameli.
English:
Water is life. Sanitation is dignity. We can therefore not support
this Budget Vote.
IsiZulu:
Buyisela isithunzi somuntu onsundu, Ngqongqoshe [Minister]
Monkonyane!
English:
Thank you Chairperson. [Applause.]
Cape): Hon Chairperson, hon members and distinguished guests,
Section 3 of the Water Services Act 108 of 1997, states that:
Everyone has a right of access to basic water supply and basic
sanitation; every water services institution must take reasonable
measures to realise this right; and every water services authority
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must, in its water services development plan, provide for measures
to realise these rights.
Chairperson, before I engage with these important rights which I
have just highlighted, it is important to note that the Western Cape
is doing everything in its power to assist all victims of the recent
storm and fire that so severely affected the province. One of our
own DA MP, Member of Parliament, Tertuis Simmers at the Western Cape
provincial Parliament, also lost a property and made a statement
about it just a few days ago:
As hurt as I might be, my heart goes out to those families who
lost a loved one during both the fire in the Southern Cape and the
storm in Cape Town. Possessions can be replaced but the 13 lives
cannot and I can only imagine how these families and friends are
feeling right now.
To him and every single person affected I’d like to express my
deepest and sincere, heartfelt condolences. Be strong I say and we
are here for you. At this point, I’d like to commend the Western
Cape government for making R75 million available to assist with
relief efforts.
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Chairperson, in addition to these disasters we’ve also been hit by
the worst drought since 1904. I welcome Minister Nomvula Mokonyane’s
acknowledgement of this provincial disaster and her attendance to
the water indaba held at Goudini Spa.
Setswana:
Re a leboga, mme.
English:
Not so long ago, I do believe that this presents us with an
opportunity to at all three spheres of government,
interdepartmentally, with the private sector and broader society
work together to overcome this drought. We have to be innovative and
really think outside of the box in order to address the
sustainability of this now scarce resource. I am therefore, also
pleased to note that the raising of the Clanwilliam Dam wall has
been augmented by the Minister’s department because this will
definitely assist in its storage capacity to ensure that more people
have access to water as the rains start to fill our dams again.
Chairperson, I have to note with concern that there has been too
many delays with this project. I hope that the more than R12 billion
that has been appropriated for water infrastructure development in
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the Minister’s Budget will ensure that this dam wall place is
finally completed.
Chairperson, let me get back to the rights which I have highlighted
earlier. In the Western Cape we believe in, follow and adhere to the
Constitution wholeheartedly and this is why we are able to provide
services to all residents at the levels that we do. In fact,
Statistics SA state of basic service delivery in South Africa’s
report, which was released on 30 March 2017, says: A provincial view
shows that the service delivery index is highest in Western Cape at
4,7 and municipalities with the best service delivery scores are
highly concentrated in the Western Cape province. This is not being
thumb sucked because the same report says 93,4% of Western Cape
residents have access to a flush toilet, 99% have access to piped
water and in fact 14 out of the top 20 municipalities with the
highest household access to improved sanitation is in the Western
Cape.
The Western Cape, which is DA-led is a leader, or should I say, a
world leader in ensuring that services as prescribed by the
Constitution are provided. We don’t make empty promises or pay lip
service, we do deliver. Chairperson, another report by Statistics
SA, the general household survey which was released on 31 May 2017,
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clearly shows that 94,3% of households in this province have access
to improved sanitation. Did I say that we are the world leaders?
I have to commend the Minister, Nomvula Mokonyane, and her
department because the report also indicates that by 2016, more than
80% of the country’s citizens now have access to improved
sanitation.
Setswana:
Re a leboga.
English:
This is much higher than the 62,3% of 2002. Of course, with this we
have to ask ourselves why these services are delivered at such a
snail pace? Why has it taken the department 14 years to improve by a
mere 17 to 18%? Surely all South Africans should by now have access
to improved sanitation.
Chairperson, this takes us into another issue. South Africans that
are to this day still exposed to the bucket system. How is it
allowed that 23 years into our democracy ... [Interjections.]
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Essack, why are you
standing? Oh! I thought you want to ask a question. Continue, hon
Maseko.
Ms M MASEKO: Chairperson, this takes us into another issue. South
Africans that are, to this day, still exposed to the bucket system.
How is it allowed that 23 years into our democracy this undignified
system is still operational in 45 out of the country’s 278
municipalities, with the majority found in the Free State, Northern
and Eastern Cape? The answer is simple; there is one common factor
across all of these provinces. They are led by ANC.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Maseko, sorry, can you
take your seat. Let me deal with hon Ximbi. Hon Ximbi, why are you
standing?
IsiXhosa:
Mnu D L XIMBI: Sihlalo, bendicela ukuqonda kumama uMaseko,
njengomntu walapha eNtshona Koloni ukuba angawuthatha kusini na
umbuzo wam, kwezi zinto azithethayo?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, hon members! Hon Maseko,
are you ready to take a question?
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Setswana:
Mme M MASEKO: Ke a leboga Ntate fela nnya, ga nkitla ke e tseya
potso.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Okay, she is not ready to
take a question. Continue, hon Maseko.
Setswana:
Mme M MASEKO: Ke a leboga Ntate.
English:
I am however hopeful because the DA’s mayor in the Nelson
Mandela Bay Metro, Athol Trollip, has vowed to eradicate this
inhumane system and restore the dignity of those residents in
informal settlements by the end of this year. As I conclude, I’d
like to invite anyone interested to engage with us in the Western
Cape, so that we can show you what good, clean, corrupt free
governance looks like and how you should go about delivering
services. Chairperson, we are committed to and will continue to
provide dignified sanitation facilities to all residents in the
Western Cape. I thank you. [Applause.]
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Ms L L ZWANE: House Chairperson, Hon Minister of Water and
Sanitation ...[Interjection.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr. A J Nyambi): Sorry, hon Zwane, let me
deal with hon Mpabo-Sibhukwana.
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: I would like to know if the hon Chair of
my select committee is running to fetch water from the dam?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr. A J Nyambi): Hon Mpambo-Sibhukwana, you
know that you first have to ascertain whether the member is ready to
take a question before you can pose your question. Hon Zwane, are
you willing to take any question?
Ms L L ZWANE: On Christmas Eve.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, she’s not ready. Take
your seat. Hon Labuschagne!
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: I just want to know, when did the speakers list
change?
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Let me address it. Hon
members, as the Presiding Officer – maybe let me apologise to those
that don’t have it – I’m being guided by what is in front of me. The
revised final one, the one in front of me that is guiding me, but I
see other nodding that they have received via emails, I don’t know.
Yes, it’s in your emails but let me apologise to those that don’t
have it. Let me deal with you hon Hattingh, I think you want to
talk!
Mr C HATTINGH: I presume that the latest one is the one that is in
our screens?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, it’s not. I...
[Interjection.]
Me C HATTINGH: How can we then operate if we don’t have the speakers
list?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Hattingh, I’m saying ...
can you take your seat so that I can deal with it? Yes. Hon members,
let me apologise to those that don’t have the revised final one.
Well, I wouldn’t know what is in your screens because since we’ve
started I was presiding. But I’m being guided by what is with me.
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But I’m seeing other members indicating that in their emails they’ve
received it. Hon Zwane, can you continue?
Ms L L ZWANE: House Chairperson, my minutes have been consumed...
[Interjection.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Can you continue hon ... no
minutes were consumed.
Ms L L ZWANE: Hon members, it is a pleasure indeed to be part of
this very important debate on water and sanitation.
I do want to start off by saying that South Africa is amongst the
few countries in the world that have prescribed that water access is
a human rights issue; because our Constitution is very progressive.
Chapter 2, section 27(1b) of the Constitution prescribe that people
of South Africa would have a right to access clean water.
Water is life. 70% of the earth’s surface is covered with water; 97%
of this 70% is salt water; 3% of the water we have on planet earth
is usable water, but of the 3%, 2% is iced water and only 1% is
available for use by humans, animals and plants.
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What would be our solution, in light of the fact that we are a
country that is classified under those countries that have water
distress? Because we receive so many few millilitres (15:27:19) of
water per annum as compared to all the other regions of planet
earth, the answer is desandination (15:27:25).
We shall have to go that route, expensive as it may be, but it
appears to be the only solution that is going to take us out of the
problem of water shortages that we are experiencing. And also, let
me just explain a misnorma (15:127:46) that people would think that
they are not getting water because they are not given water by the
government that is leading this country. Water is constant, the
amount of water doesn’t change; the only thing that the government
needs to do is to ensure that it is evenly distributed across the
act surface (15:28:06). But the amount of water that we are using –
even as we speak at this era – is the same amount that was used even
by dinosaurs millions of years ago because water is constant, it
just recycles itself through a process – this is just a free science
lesson.
The Constitution authorises national and provincial government to
regulate local government in term of water services. It further
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obliges them to support and strengthen the capacity of local
government to provide these services.
For the water and sanitation sector, the National Development Plan,
NDP, proposes improving ... [Interjection.]
Mr W F FABER: House Chairperson please, just quickly on a point of
order. This member, can he turn around please ... I’m talking to you
through the Chair ... [Interjection.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mthimunye, you don’t have
a right to disturb a member who is rising on a point order ...
[Interjection.]
Mr W F FABER: Because, I don’t know how long my temper will
[Inaudible.] [Interjection.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): You are protected hon Faber,
can you ... [Interjection.]
Mr W F FABER: House Chairperson, I would like to know if this hon
member would take a question please?
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Zwane, are you ready to
take a question?
Ms L L ZWANE: On Christmas Eve.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): She’s not ready to take a
question.
Ms L L ZWANE: However, the expectation is for the sector to
contribute to the creation of 11 million jobs by 2030; providing
basic service to rural communities to increase their capabilities
and thus take advantage of economic opportunities, as well as to
professionalise the public service and attract high calibre
candidates. Commitment to implement the NDP is reflected in the
Medium Framework, MTFS, 2014-2019, with specific actions that the
sector should implement over the five year period.
Hon Minister, I was listening to you when you explained the manner
in which the budget is allocated to the different provinces for the
bulk infrastructure, both the merka (15:30:27) and the large bulk
infrastructure.
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I do want to raise hopes for the people of KwaZulu-Natal that the
government that is led by the ANC is doing a lot in terms of
addressing the water issues.
In KwaZulu-Natal there is Ingcobo bulk water supply that is being
constructed as we speak; Greater Mthonjaneni is being constructed as
we speak; Umshwathi bulk water supply, phase 3, is on as we speak;
Spioenkop to Ladysmith is being constructed as we speak; Jozini dam,
we’ve always been worried about Jozini dam, Minister, I share my
worry and my concerns with Gabisa that it is moving at slow pace,
but I was happy when I heard you say in this august House that
you’ve allocated just over a billion for the processes to be fast
tracked, those people there deserve to benefit from the water. Over
the years ...
IsiZulu:
... abelungu kuphela ababekade bezuza [benefit] ngamanzi aseJozini.
Sheshisa Ngqongqoshe, abantu bakulindele. Laphaya eKZN ...
English:
... in the bulk infrastructure ...
IsiZulu:
... ethe ukwehla ngokwezinga ...
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English:
... section or schedule 6(b), Driefontein in Ndaka is being
constructed; Greytown Phase II is being constructed; KwaNongoma is
being constructed.
IsiZulu:
Isilo sizophuza amanzi acwecwekile, wena wendlovu!
English:
Middledrift is being constructed; Mandlakazi bulk water services is
being constructed and KwaMaphumulo. Those are the projects that the
department – as I speak - are rolling out and raising the hopes of
the people of South Africa, and this is what is called the delivery
of services.
Nonetheless Minister, as we engaged with the department, we were a
bit worried about the pace at which you are eradicating the bucket
system in the different provinces. Targets had not been met and I
want to believe that the targets that you have set yourselves as a
department are now going to be met because we really want eradicate
the bucket system; it is not suitable for any human in South Africa.
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The second issue is that, as we engaged with the department hon
Minister, we also observed that because of draught, you had deviated
from the core mandate and some of the money allocated for your
budget was used to address to the draught issues. I know that it was
an emergency issue but it is going to raise a query when you get to
your audit report, because a deviation from mandate, however
important the issue may be, could create problems when you get our
report. I do want to say that some of the reasons why the department
might not have been able to meet the targets are valid reasons; you
could not have ignored people when they said they don’t have water,
you had to shell out budget to go and buy water containers and
channel them to provinces so that people could queue at certain
strategic points to get water because of draught. Maybe it will be
better
as you said that KZN is embarking on desalination, other
provinces should learn from those that know how to do the job.
Hon Mpambo-Sibhukwana, I do not want to raise issues the water issue
is about life and I don’t want to politicise life issue, in all
sanity, really. But, I do want to say that it will be better for the
government of the Western Cape to attend the issue of sanitation in
Khayelitsha. In that area, there are communal sanitation systems,
all provinces but I’m addressing to you as representative of those
people ... [Interjection.]
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Zwane, so that you can be
on the safe side, address through me, don’t deal directly with hon
Mpambo-Sibhukwana.
Ms L L ZWANE: Okay. I’m saying this with all the honesty that issue
has been raised over the years and it is not getting attended to. We
can’t live with a situation where women have to walk more than a
kilometre to access flushed toilet system; there are safety issues
involved here and there has been reports that some of them have been
murdered as they go into those toilets; some of the toilets are
blocked and some of the pipes are burst, and it poses a health
hazard. As a colleague of mine in the NCOP and as a representative
of the people of the Western Cape, I am saying take this issue up as
a genuine concern and run with it; it is going to yield you a good
dividend.
Also, the issue of reservoir that was leaking for a number of years,
losing about 400 000 litres of water every month, that issue has
just been attended to, I want to say thank you. But I want to thank
the councillors of ANC in the Western Cape, they took the issue up
and brought it to your attention to the extend that your government
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has attended to it, using the budget that is allocated by the ANCled government.
Mr W F FABER: House Chairperson, I would like to know if hon Zwane
would take a question? I know ... [Interjection}
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, don’t add anything. Let
me assist you. I’m assisting you. Order, members. He has a right to
do what he is doing, you’re protected. Hon Zwane, are ready to take
a question?
Ms L L ZWANE: For the third time, on Christmas eve.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): She’s not ready to take a
question, take your seat hon Faber.
Ms L L ZWANE: I want to end off with a quotation by Ho Chi Minh who
said:
The river must have its source to supply it with water,
without its source the river will go dry. Likewise, the tree
must have roots, without which it will wither. The
revolutionary must be endowed with virtues, without which,
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however talented he or she may be, cannot lead the people.
People be virtuous.
Attend to the people, listen to their pleas, they elected you as
public representatives with the trust that you’ll be able to listen
to them in the Western Cape as well as other provinces. Thank you,
House Chairperson.
Cllr T SETEMELE (Salga): Hon Chairperson and Deputy Chairperson of
the NCOP, hon Minister of Water and Sanitation, hon members, I wish
to greet you on behalf of all the municipalities of the RSA. The
drought experienced in particular, in the Western Cape remains a
stardom challenge that poses a risk to the development, we supply
clean services to vulnerable communities.
We have observed the negative impact on farmers and the agricultural
sector and acknowledge these negative impacts on employment creation
and food security. In this regard we appreciate the swift action
taken by the provincial government as well as the initiatives and
support by the Water Affairs, nongovernmental organisations and the
private sector.
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Hon members, we must thank the heavens for the recent rains and must
appeal to all our communities, to continue to adhere to the
applicable water restrictions.
The Western Cape is not out of the woods yet but most importantly,
as Salga we are of the view that, all municipalities should consider
as important introducing similar restrictions and make a clarion
call to all South Africans to acknowledge that South Africa has
serious water shortages.
Hon Chairperson, I would like to take this opportunity to appreciate
great strides taken by our municipalities in restoring the dignity
of our people. Sanitation is indeed dignity and water is life.
In regard to Statistics SA released in 2016 survey confirms an
upward trend in the delivery of water and sanitation across the
board. Indeed, this is a good story to tell as our country marches
forward towards providing clean water and dignified sanitation.
As the former Minister of Water Affairs hon Kader Asmal opinioned:
Human rights are never static; they are always dynamic. They are
never completely won, just as they are never completely lost. In
our defence of them, we too cannot afford to stand still. We must
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never allow complacency of the sort that has betrayed the people
of Kenya. We need constantly to seek to improve how and by what
means we can promote and protect the rights set out in our own
Bill of Rights. This is the challenge that Parliament faces.
Human rights are never static; they are always dynamic. They are
never completely won, just as they are never completely lost. In
our defence of them, we too cannot afford to stand still. We need
constantly to seek to improve how and by what means we can
promote and protect the rights set out in our own Bill of Rights.
Kadar Asmal.
In our view, South Africa is indeed doing very well towards the
attainment of the 2019 targets to completely eradicate the water and
sanitation backlogs. Hon members, on behalf of the local government
sector I propose key issues we believe warrant an urgent
consideration of working together with the Ministry.
These issues in our opinion seek to enhance the implementation of
water and sanitation delivery at a municipal level. They will
contribute towards enhancing the required consolidated and
collaborative approach amongst key water sector players.
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In these few contexts one would say, in the context of the current
legislative review we propose that we work together towards
reconfigurations of the Catchment Management Agencies institutional
arrangements.
Hon Chairperson, as Salga we would like to propose that, in a quest
to ensure a smooth roll out of dignified sanitation to our
communities the implementation of the recently approved sanitation
policy by the Cabinet requires an intensive engagements between the
municipalities and departments.
I wish to propose that the department in collaboration with Salga
ought to spearhead and lead discussions with the National Treasury
on two major issues: exploration of revenue management, including
appropriate tariff-setting, regular billing and effective collection
systems and; mechanisms of improving asset management including
adherence to invest 8% of the value of assets for maintenance in the
National Treasury stakeholders.
Hon members as Salga we are indeed concerned by the escalation of
debt owed to Water Boards; in the same way, we are concerned by the
debt owed to municipalities by communities.
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In this regard we would like to suggest this matter be dealt with
concurrently with the two issues mentioned above. Furthermore, we
welcome the initiative on the development of the water master plan.
On behalf of the municipalities, we commit to working with the
department to ensure a sound master plan is produced. It is hoped
that this process will also include how water resources will be
funded in the near future.
Hon Chairperson, we are excited to be working with the department
and China/Japan International Co-operation Agency, JICA toward
capacitating municipalities on a variety of areas to build the
necessary expertise in local government.
We believe this will go a long way to supplement the war on water
leaks programme spearheaded by the department and municipalities. As
Salga we commit to support all our municipalities in exploring the
best possible mechanisms to deploy into the system.
We present suggestions that it would be vital for the department to
consider establishing a specialised team to work on these vital
issues. Salga is ready to engage in these discussions.
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In conclusion, it is evident that the proposed budget is seeking to
change the landscape of water and sanitation sector but most
importantly build on the gains made over the last 20 years of local
government.
We are indeed convinced that the department is on the right course
towards acceleration of service delivery thereby putting our country
in a good position to meet our obligation to ensure all South
Africans have access to clean water and basic sanitation.
It is our collective pledge. In other words, it embodies values
which this House must respect, and which permeate the laws we pass
and indeed every aspect of our lives. It is a living instrument that
enlarges our freedoms.
We are convinced that only when all spheres of government, operate
as a coherent systemic single whole, shall we march in harmony
towards a better life for all South Africans.
As Salga, we challenge the department and all municipalities to live
to this old Zulu adage ―Injobo enhle ithungelwa ebandla‖ which in
our context means, because what we do is in sync with the collective
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vision of all partners and the fundamental values of our
Constitution. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr C HATTINGH: Thank you, hon Chair. It is sad that the
representative from Salga did not address the elephant in the room,
and that is the nonpayment of municipalities to bail out the
department.
The severe drought affecting every province, aggravated by the
widespread and escalating contamination of our remaining scarce
water resources has frequently shifted public scrutiny from No 1 and
sometimes to the Minister responsible for Water and Sanitation.
And what was revealed? An underspending of more than R3 billion in
the past 3 financial years; two Director-Generals in the same time;
Lesotho Highlands project delayed by 6 years; decreased water
infrastructure development funding by over R500 million in this
year.
Your department, hon Minister, and The Water Trading Entity are R5,8
billion in the red made up of a R2,3 billion Reserve Bank debt,
unpaid invoices for the 2016-17 of R1,5 billion and a shortfall of
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R2 billion on unfunded operational expenses for the current
financial year.
Minister, is it true that you told the portfolio committee that you
have an intention to fund this shortfall from the regional Bank
Infrastructure Grant, RBIG, funds in contravention of section 38 of
the Public Finance Management Act, PFMA? That money is supposed to
go for regional bulk water and sanitation infrastructure.
Hon Minister is there also truth in the media reports that you have
allowed assisting Mr Luvo Makasi. I won’t refer to him as a Ben 10.
I agree with you, it is unacceptable. I don’t do that.
Is that person calling the shots in your department despite not
working there, even gave orders to senior staff in the department
including the Director-General, DG and the Chief Financial Officer,
CFO.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Hattingh! Can you take
your seat?
Ms L C DLAMINI: Thank you, hon Chair. I just want to check if it is
parliamentary to debate about the Ben 10. Where does it fit in, in
water issues?
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, order! The rules
are very clear about language that is appropriate for the House. I’m
not making any ruling that what was said is wrong, what I can say is
that, let’s use an appropriate language. Can you continue hon
Hattingh?
Mr C HATTINGH: Contractors have reportedly been advised to talk to
Makasi if they hope to be successful in their contracts. What is
going on Minister? Are they taking instructions from you or from the
Guptas, from Dubai?
Minister, is it true that the former Minister of Finance considered
placing your department under administration and I want to quote:
―As internal controls, project management and contract management
have collapsed‖.
This in fact, hon Minister, might have been the case was it not for
the alleged midnight Gupta-inspired Cabinet cleansing exercise.
Minister, you were indeed saved by the bell.
Perhaps the Minister can explain her comments in this context, as
was reported in the Sunday Times, prior to the midnight reshuffle:
―That Treasury’s wings must be clipped so that everyone could share
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the cake‖. What cake Minister? Is that the money and Treasury, the
looting of the money? Or was this just a plain a Guptanian slip?
Has this got anything to do with some of the projects where you are
involved in, allegedly interfered in, that are currently
investigated by the Public Protector and the Special Investigating
Unit, including the R26 billion Lesotho Highlands Water Project,
tender and other irregularities in the controversial Giyani
Emergency Project, which has seen costs balloon from R500 million to
more than R5 billion.
Then Minister there is still your interference in the Clan William
Dam project, where you stopped the construction to create a new
tender that will delay the project between 3 to 4 years; and would
cost tax payers R1 billion more. Well, your department workers on
the side have been sitting there, reporting everyday for duty and
then go back home.
Hon Minister, every time I see scenes of our water crisis, people
protesting about the lack of water, the quality of water, children
playing in sewage contaminated water in our streets, I think of a
comment that you once made when you said: ―People can threaten us
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and say they won’t vote, but the ANC does not need their dirty
votes‖.
Hon Minister, all of those dirty votes still need water, even the
dirty water that you are providing, in order for them to survive.
Hon Minister, don’t despair, you, when you retire in 2019, there
will be hope. After 2019 elections, a clean and efficient government
– like we have in the Western Cape - will vigorously start to cleanup the water crisis, that you, partially where responsible for which
has been caused by maladministration and corruption; and it will be
written in the history books as one of the ANC’s most destructive
legacies. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr W T MADILENG (Mpumalanga): Presiding Chairperson of the session,
hon Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, Ms Thandi
Modise, our beloved hon Minister of the Department of Water and
Sanitation, hon Mokonyane, hon Members of the NCOP, hon Members of
National Assembly, representatives of South African Local Government
Association, Salga, comrades and compatriots, ladies and gentlemen,
brothers and sisters, I am not going to start with my speech. I am
disappointed.
Afrikaans:
Ek voel baie jammer vir agb Hattingh.
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English:
Actually, I am highly disappointed that he could stoop so low. When
I look at him, he’s a very elderly and matured ... very old ... He
qualifies to be my father or my uncle. [Interjections.]
My advice ... I don’t want to say anything about what he said. But
my advice to him is ...
Afrikaans:
Hy moet die volgende twee boeke gaan lees, en ek is doodseker hy ken
die boeke: Gesie van Sonsig en Bart Nel. Bart Nel, want hy praat van
die gapende gat tussen twee mense. [Tussenwerpsels.] Nou, daar is ’n
gapende gat tussen ons twee ouderdomme.
English:
It gives me great me great pleasure to be part of this debate. Hon
Minister, we heartily welcome and support the Budget Vote 36.
[Interjections.]
Bulk water services to municipalities ... We want to say to you, hon
Minister, thumbs up. As the province of Mpumalanga, we will play our
role in ensuring that good governance practices are at the order of
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the day towards qualitative and speedy delivery of these
constitutional imperatives to our beloved citizens.
As opposed to what Hendrick Verwoerd, the architect of apartheid,
born in the Netherlands in 1901 ... [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: You were not even born then.
Mr W T MADILENG (Mpumalanga): ... and uncle and grootpa to some of
the apartheid babalas products who are imbeciles and zygotes in this
House.
Instead of them planning for water and sanitation for the
disadvantaged majority of this country, after ... [Inaudible.] ...
apartheid, those many donkey’s years, they want to today come and
compare 17 years and 23 years to 350 years. And when you talk about
apartheid, they say, we don’t have to blame everything on apartheid.
But we are where we are because of apartheid! We talk of democratic
South Africa of 1994 because of apartheid. [Applause.]
The bucket system ... When did the bucket system start? It didn’t
start in 1994. Why are we being blamed when we are trying to
eradicate the bucket system? Because now that they have jumped onto
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the bandwagon of opposition, they don’t want us to emancipate our
people from the remnants of apartheid to a brighter future. They
feel the pinch and they start jumping up and down in their chairs
when we bring prosperity and good life to our people.
Hon Minister, Lushushwane Water Treatment Plant in Mpumalanga is
highly appreciated. Hendrik Verwoerd never planned for the
Lushushwane Water Treatment Plant. He did not even know where
Lushushwane is! [Interjections.]
Apartheid is a reality and it is part of this history of the country
of South Africa. Do you know, the problem is that we now have the
ultra-right and the ultra-left sleeping in one bed? Ultra-left plus
ultra-right equals too much of a mengelmoes [mishmash.] That’s why
we have a mengelmoes in Johannesburg, we have a mengelmoes in
Tswane, we have a mengelmoes in Nelson Mandela Metro. We have a
mengelmoes. That’s why not late ... [Interjections.]
Somebody was pointing a finger and saying to the other —
Afrikaans:
jy laat dit ... tree uit, anders ... [Onhoorbaar.] Jy weet!
[Tussenwerpsels.]
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English:
You know. He was pointing a finger. And we want to say on that
score, keep it up, young man. Take what belongs to you because this
is not what your people voted you in to do. You know it’s wrong.
Hon Chairperson, thank you very much. We can confirm that, during
the state of the province address in the beloved province of
Mpumalanga, the province of the rising sun, where, when the sun
rises, we work so hard, hon premier D D Mabuza indicated that 88% of
the households have access to clean drinking water and this reflects
an additional 150 933 households since 2011.
With the 2016-17 Municipal Infrastructure Grant, MIG, allocation of
R1,8 billion, 265 projects are currently being implemented across
the beloved province of Mpumalanga. The hon premier further
pronounced that water supply and sanitation are the most important
basic services funded through this MIG for poor communities who were
neglected and who never known by apartheid.
In Gert Sibande District, for example, 47 water and sanitation
projects to the value of R215 million have been implemented. Of the
47 projects under implementation, 7 are completed, benefiting 8 124
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households in various municipalities. In Nkangala District, 39 water
and sanitation projects are being implemented to the value of
R301 million. Of the 29 projects under implementation, there are 2
water and sanitation projects in Kwazamokuhle Extension 8 that have
been completed benefiting 395 households in Steve Tshwete Local
Municipality.
Afrikaans:
Luister nou. [Pay attention.]
English:
At Ehlanzeni District, we are implementing 63 water and sanitation
projects to the value of R512 million. Of the 63 projects, 14 water
projects have been completed in Bushbuckridge and Nkomazi
Municipalities, benefiting ... [Interjections.]
Afrikaans:
Luister! [Listen!]
English:
... 11 369 households.
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As the portfolio committee, we have been to those projects – by the
way, I am the chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Human
Settlements and Co-Operative Governance and Traditional Affairs –
when we conducted oversight on all projects, we satisfied ourselves
that the hon premier’s commitments are implemented by the respective
departments without failure.
Somebody here was talking about promise. In the ANC we never promise
nobody anything; we commit ourselves. [Applause.] They promise; we
don’t promise! We commit ourselves!
So, when you steal and do cut and paste, you sometimes copy
wrongfully. Somebody was saying here, free education. I want to say,
in your research you failed one thing, and that’s plagiarism, which
is a big disjuncture towards quality and decolonised education.
[Interjections.]
So ... [Interjections.] ... hon Chairperson, we want to appreciate
the fact that a child ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members ...
Mr W T MADILENG (Mpumalanga): ... born as a child will remain a
child even when the child is 60 years old, the parents are 80 years
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old ... he ... the grandmother and receiver of umdende [old-age
pension] is being addressed as a child.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Madileng, please take
your seat. Let me deal with hon Mokwele. [Interjections.]
Ms T J MOKWELE: [Inaudible.] ... doing anything! To answer you, I’m
not doing anything. You know that we were teaching you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, hon Mokwele! Order!
Ms T J MOKWELE: You know very well. Whether you call us children, we
don’t care! [Interjections.] You know that we are ... [Inaudible.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele, can you take
your seat?
Mr W T MADILENG (Mpumalanga): But what is the point of order?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): You can’t open the mic ...
and Mokwele, you can’t speak before being recognised.
Ms T J MOKWELE: My apology, but he ... [Inaudible.]
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Madileng, continue with
the interesting debate. [Laughter.] [Interjections.]
Ms T J MOKWELE: [Inaudible.]
Mr W T MADILENG (Mpumalanga): Hon Minister, we can’t even enjoy
drinking water in the Western Cape. This reminds ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Madileng, let me deal
with hon Mpambo-Sibhukwana.
Ms T J MOKWELE: And it’s only in the Western Cape that we can drink
tap water! In Mpumalanga, you can’t!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele, can you allow
hon Mpambo-Sibhukwana to ...
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Thank you, Chairperson. Where you are
sitting, you are supposed to be neutral and not add on your adverbs
and adjectives on how interesting or not interesting the debate is.
You as a presiding officer must be neutral. If that’s the case, you
must also add the adverbs and adjectives to our speeches and say
they are interesting, nurtured and nourished – whichever way you
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want to put it. [Interjections.] Please, don’t be biased ...
[Interjections.] ... just be neutral on that Chair and do not tell
about the interesting ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr.A J Nyambi): Are you done yet? Yes, I take
your point. [Interjections.] Hon members ... [Interjections.] Hon
members, I don’t need any assistance. I said, ―continue with the
interesting debate.‖ I never said anything that suggests that I am
participating in the debate. When we are debating life, it is a very
interesting debate. [Interjections.] Hon Faber? [Interjections.] Hon
Faber? [Interjections.] Hon Faber, you are recognised.
Mr W F FABER: Yes, Chairperson. While the honourable ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, let’s allow hon
Faber to raise his point. Hon Faber, you are recognised.
Mr W F FABER: The Western Cape does not have a lot of clean water.
It least it has fresh water! I hope the hon member enjoys it, as he
has to buy it in his own province.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Aah, that is not a point of
order. Continue, hon Madileng.
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Mr W T MADILENG (Mpumalanga): Hon Chairperson, thank you very much.
We ... why people ... I want members of this House to ask themselves
a question. The hon members ... [Interjections.] Well, it is very
unfortunate that, instead of the apartheid regime doing a research
on how to benefit the citizenry of this country of the Republic of
South Africa, they went on to do research on things like ...
Afrikaans:
... bydrae tot die metodiek and problematiek van die psigologiese
ondersoek van koerantadvertensies, in 1928, en die tweede een was
oor die opstel van die persoonlikheid van die mens en die beskrywing
daarvan, in 1930.
English:
As opposed to ... as opposed to, hon Mpambo-Sibhukwana ... as
opposed to the challenges ...
An HON MEMBER: Hallelujah!
Mr W T MADILENG (Mpumalanga): ... that could have been foreseen by
the transitional government, and that they were not supposed to form
them ... to constitute themselves on the basis of people like Helen
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Zille and Tony Leon. They took a strategic retreat, now recently, by
giving forward, and forging the resolution why ... we ... the DA’s
resolution for the white members to accept the majority of people
who change the political epoch of their envisaged goal of taking
over the state power from the ANC. And they called ... Who did they
call? Moruti pastor, apostle, reverend or apostle Mmusi Maimane to
come and take the leadership role ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Madileng ...
Setswana:
Mr W T MADILENG (Mpumalanga): Ke moo re bonang moruti ...
English:
... just becoming a nominal leader.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Madileng, I’m afraid ...
Mr W T MADILENG (Mpumalanga): Takes instruction ...
Afrikaans:
Mr C HATTINGH: Hey! Jy moet luister! [Hey! You must pay attention!]
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English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Hattingh, can you first
withdraw what you said. I’m the one who is presiding. You can’t say,
―hey, luister!‖ You can’t do that. Can you first withdraw what you
said.
Mr C HATTINGH: I withdraw what I said, but I would say that the
honourable youngster must listen to you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No! No! Hon Hattingh, without
conditions, can you withdraw what you said.
Mr C HATTINGH: I withdraw. Honourable ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Yes. Then why are you
standing?
Mr C HATTINGH: I would like to put a point of order while you get
the member to sit down.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Okay, I’m listening.
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Mr C HATTINGH: I would like to know – and you have ruled on that
before ... perhaps the member is not really clued up on our Rules
... perhaps he is more used to the Mpumalanga legislature rules ...
but you cannot refer ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Order, members!
Mr C HATTINGH: Mpumalanga. [Interjections.] You don’t have to hehe!
You can’t refer to an hon member without referring to him as
honourable, using the title. Now, he doesn’t know the Rules and I
forgive him, but please ask him to ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Order, members!
Mr C HATTINGH: ... adhere to our Rules. We know he’s still a
youngster, but he must learn.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Yes. Hon Madileng, as you
conclude, refer to hon members appropriately. As you conclude ...
An HON MEMBER: Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Amen!
Mr W T MADILENG (Mpumalanga): A nominal leader called Mmusi Maimane.
[Interjections.] I dare anyone who would want to oppose my assertion
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to do the honourable process of googling and researching the
following: One, the birth of the DA, it’s origin and its political
orientation. Four, its political vision ...
An HON MEMBER: Hallelujah!
Mr W F FABER: Go back to the feet of Mabuza!
Mr W T MADILENG (Mpumalanga): In conclusion, we are always inspired
and encouraged by our late international icon, Dr Nelson Mandela,
who once asserted that it always seems impossible until it is done.
In other words ... [Inaudible.] [Interjections.] I show all South
Africans ultimately ... [Interjections.] ... that have access to
quality water and sanitation provided that we make the right
decision in terms of our strategic planning and implementation. But
above all, we must invest our resources in water and sanitation and
history will pass a favourable verdict on all of us who had this
opportunity to develop and drive good policies on water and
sanitation. Thank you. [Laughter.]
The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Chair, let me welcome some of
the constructive inputs that have been made by hon members here,
particularly the observations that come on the basis of the
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oversight work that hon members have undertaken. I appreciate the
observations that have been made by the Chair of the Select
Committee on Water and Sanitation.
I must further indicate that, among other things that we must
celebrate, is that this government has actually ensured that access
to water and sanitation is not a privilege, but a constitutional
mandate. Hence, we are pursuing this having inherited a mess of a
Bantustan system including the forced removal and dumping of our own
people who were living in the various farming communities. Today, we
have to deal with that mess which we have inherited. It is not a
mess of over a period of 23 years.
If you know Botshabelo, the place came into being when our people
were removed from the farms in the Free State and dumped alongside
the road. Only today, we are making sure that the life of an African
in Botshabelo has access to dignified and clean water. [Applause.]
You may also actually want to tell us that the Western Cape is
leading. It will lead precisely because it does not have a former
KwaNdebele like Mpumalanga. It does not have a former Bantustan in
the Free State; it does not have a former Bophuthatswana in the –
shut up – and ... [Interjections.]
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Can you sit down?
Ms T J MOKWELE (off the mic): No, in Bophuthatswana we had ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, I’ll deal with it. Hon
Faber, please sit down!
Setswana:
TONA YA METSI LE KGELELOLEŠWE: Ke tlo go go bolelela.
Setswana:
Moh T J MOKWELE: [Expletive.] ... o tshwanetse o bo o e dirile.
English:
In Bophuthatswana we had everything; proper roads and clean water
and not what we are drinking now!
The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Shame ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Faber, please sit down!
Ms T J MOKWELE: You destroyed what Mangope did there!
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele, sit down! Hon
Minister, you can’t talk to members directly. Deal with them through
me. Continue, hon Minister!
Ms T J MOKWELE: ... shut up!
Setswana:
TONA YA METSI LE KGELELOLEŠWE: O apare sentle pele.
English:
Ms T J MOKWELE: I don’t care!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Mokwele ...
[Interjections.]
Ms T J MOKWELE: I don’t care!
Setswana:
Ga ke ntshe [Expletive.] [16:08:28.] ko ntle.
English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Order! I don’t need your
assistance. Hon Mokwele, please leave the House.
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Setswana:
Moh T J MOKWELE: Ke seo o se tlwaetseng.
Setswana:
TONA YA METSI LE KGELELOLEŠWE: E ya ko ga Mangope.
Setswana:
Moh T J MOKWELE: Ga ke ntshetse bana [Expletive.][16:08:52]
Setswana:
TONA YA METSI LE KGELELOLEŠWE: Apara sentle.
Setswana:
Moh T J MOKWELE: Ga go tshwenye. Ke a ikaparela; ga ke aparele bana.
Setswana:
TONA YA METSI LE KGELELOLEŠWE: O nwele dipilisi?
English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Makue, please leave with
hon Mokwele. Hon Mokwele!
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Setswana:
Moh T J MOKWELE: O aparela bana.
Setswana:
TONA YA METSI LE KGELELOLEŠWE: E ya go nwa dipilisi.
Setswana:
Moh T J MOKWELE: Bana! O itlontlolla ga mašwe.
English:
You disrespect your husband.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Minister ...
Afrikaans:
Mev T J MOKWELE: Sies!
English:
Shame on you!
The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Shame on you, Mama!
Setswana:
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Mme wa gago o timile TV.
English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Faber, why are you
standing? Hon members ... [Interjections.]
Setswana:
Moh T J MOKWELE: O robala le bana!
English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, the conduct of
hon Mokwele after I have said she must excuse herself from this
House will be referred to the Chair accordingly, so that it can be
attended to. It is not a matter that can just be left unattended.
Hon Faber, why are you standing?
Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, on a point of order: The rule allows any
member to heckle the speaker. That is allowed.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Yes.
Mr W F FABER: It is not allowed for a speaker to tell any member of
this House to shut up.
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The CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): You are out of order. Take your
seat!
Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, you operate ...
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Take your seat, hon Faber!
[Interjections.]
Mr W F FABER: This cannot happen, Chair.
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Faber ... [Interjections.]
Mr W F FABER: You are the Chairperson of the House and not of the
ANC when you sit there.
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Faber, I have dealt with that
issue. When the hon Minister said, shut up, I said that was wrong
and she must not repeat it. She must do everything through me.
Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, she should withdraw that.
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Faber, please take your seat.
Hon Mpambo-Sibhukwana.
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Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: On a point of order: Hon Minister ...
Setswana:
... ko Botshabelo ke na le ditsala, ba ga Setlogelo.
English:
Do not mislead this House.
Setswana:
... ba ga Kgehlo le ba ga Kenke, ba nna ko Botshabelo.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, hon Mpambo-Sibhukwana.
Can you switch that mic off?
English:
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA:
I know that it is highly infested in bucket system at Five. Yes,
that is what I am saying. I am not talking about that issue. I am
talking about Botshabelo near Thaba-Nchu.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): No, hon Mpambo-Sibhukwana,
please refrain from what you are doing. You had your opportunity.
You can’t debate with the speaker on the podium. Hon Ngwenya.
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Ms D B NGWENYA: Chair, you said to the Minister that, what she said
was unacceptable. We request that she withdraws what she has said.
Secondly ... Can you please listen to me? What has happened now was
an altercation. The Minister did not keep quiet as well. It was back
and forth. What are you going to do about what she has said to the
hon member? She also said derogative words to her.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Ngwenya ... Hon members,
I have said more that 30 times since sitting here, that I don’t need
any assistance. Hon Ngwenya, you have raised a point of order. In
dealing with your point of order, if I have made a ruling and
members of the House are not satisfied, there is a procedure that
deals with a point of order if you are not satisfied. Hon Chabangu,
I am recognising you.
Mr M M CHABANGU: Chairperson, we have been saying repeatedly that
you must not deteriorate this House. You are turning us into a
laughing stock. It is because of you – listen to what is actually
happening. You do not rule.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): It is because you are
inviting it. Continue with the debate, hon Minister.
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The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Chair, I unconditionally
withdraw and I want to proceed. I have spoken about the issues that
have come from the select committee and the oversight teams. The
issue of unprotected water sources is of importance. Hence, we work
together with the Department of Environmental Affairs in the Working
for Water programme to ensure that we clean our areas but also
increase catchment areas in South Africa, which have actually been
neglected, and hence our dependence on mostly surface water. We do
not have the capacity to harvest rain water and we do note that.
There is also a concern around the correlation between the budget
and the project, and that also relates to what hon Khawula raised.
Hon members, indeed we had to take a turn away from the annual
performance plan precisely because the drought and its severity were
unknown to anyone of us. What we really have been able to do, was to
interact with the Department of Finance but also our municipalities
and Cogta through the Municipal Infrastructure Support Agent, Misa
to ensure that we are compensated for disaster.
We must understand that disaster management only compensates after
work has been done. Therefore, it is on those bases that we had to
deviate. Let us also commend South Africans that everybody heeded
the call to save water and hence we never had major disasters like
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loss of life as well as waterborne diseases because everybody saved
a bit of a drop that we had.
Chair, as regards the issues around the comments made by the member
of the DA on why we didn’t pray for water in Cape Town, in fact, we
don’t invite people to come and pray; you pray and people will come
and join you in prayer. We joined the Ekurhuleni Municipality in
their prayer services. We joined the Executive Mayor of Cape Town
when she also organised a prayer service. I still say, those who can
pray, let’s pray; and those who can actually use traditional means,
let us try. But the fact of the matter is that we do not have water.
Let us save the last drop that we have.
The other issue that I would like to speak on is also not correct.
In my own presentation, I did speak about the challenges in the Free
State and the Gariep pipeline. During the drought, we had to divert
water from Lesotho to go to the Free State using that. In my own
presentation now, I have also said that we are going ahead through
the Bloem Water to install the pipeline to Gariep.
With regard to issues around buckets, what we are dealing with is
the eradication of the buckets in the old formal townships. That’s
why the Western Cape will not have ... because even with informal
settlements, Western Cape refuses to declare Khayelitsha as a
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township. As a result, it remains informal. Remember, it is one of
those elite and highly urbanised provinces.
However, the fact of the matter is that, with migration and
urbanisation, Ekurhuleni will be affected. Mpumalanga people moving
from the rural areas to the urban areas of eMalahleni and so forth,
will be affected. The collapse of the mining sector will affect the
North West and Gauteng because people are migrating towards the
urban areas. That is not what we are here about. We are sorting out
what we have inherited where our own brothers and uncles were
involved in collection of waste at night. That is what we are
speaking about here.
I also want to correct what is being raised about Jozini and the
IFP. In fact, SiseJozini [We are at Jozini.] because we have
inherited what the IFP never attended to. At Ulundi, we are dealing
with those issues. The amount of R1,2 billion has been allocated for
Jozini. We are actually doing our best to change the situation in
KwaZulu-Natal and we look forward to the establishment of a single
water board to build the capacity of our municipalities.
The hon member from the EFF who spoke about the acid mine drainage,
―tell no lies and claim no easy victories.‖ The acid mine drainage
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is again the mess we inherited from the apartheid system. As we
speak hon members, we have invested millions of money and to date,
South Africa has the largest acid mine drainage purification system.
As we speak, it actually deposits 242 million litres of combined
processed mine water back into the Vaal River system. We are
cleaning ...
IsiZulu:
... la manzi ebekhuluma ngayo. La manzi abuyele phakathi emfuleni
i-Vaal ...
English:
... and what we are now doing is to add on using that particular
system. On the other issue around the mines, in fact, you wouldn’t
know how many mines do not have water licences. It is through our
work that we are dealing with it and the Department of Mineral
Resources is dealing with the mining licences which they have been
given. These are things that we have actually inherited.
As regards the issue that has been raised by the hon member from
Salga, Western Cape, I need to actually commend her on what she has
acknowledged. But I want to also remind her of 45 of 273
municipalities. Isn’t it working progress, if we only have 45 of our
municipalities that are still affected by the issue of quality of
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service delivery? Surely, we never said we’ll do it in 20 years
because we knew the extent of the mess. Even with the bucket
eradication, we now have to upgrade the waste treatment plants, and
put the bulk infrastructure before we build the three walls and the
toilet seat.
I just want to address hon member Hattingh. What you said ...
Afrikaans:
... jy is net soos ’n matroos. [... you are just like a sailor.]
English:
I am not going to waste my time and say it. You are older than me
and I wonder what your grandchildren are saying when you stand on
this podium. I am not going to honour and respect you on the basis
of what you are doing. [Interjection.]
The last thing that I also want to raise, coming from the DA, is
that it is not true that the Lesotho Highland project was never
supposed to have been implemented in 2014. It is earmarked for 2025.
Again, you stand up here and mislead your grandchildren and
everybody watching you. Lesotho is only earmarked for 2025. It was
never for the drought.
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We will deliver Glen Williams in a transparent manner. Colleagues,
we must accept that transformation must happen, whether we like it
or not. We shall bring our own black emerging contractors to compete
in the space; we shall promote the set-asides [Applause.] and we
will never – and I refuse. In line with our manifesto and the
commitments in the Constitution, ours is to promote equality, create
jobs and eradicate poverty. Infrastructure in the water sector must
do that. If a Dlamini has never been involved; if a Mrs Mkhize has
never been involved; it is time that we put them into the system to
benefit. You can call it corruption. We call it radical economic
transformation! [Applause.]
Sesotho:
Le rona re batho.
English:
As I take my seat, hon Chair, I really want to indicate – Stop
misleading South Africans! South Africa is a better place. It is
you, through your leader, who tell South Africans that colonisation
and apartheid were much better. And you put the poor black man to
then tell the nation that you have forgiven the worst racist and
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fascist when she said colonisation and apartheid were fine. We want
to eradicate even the remnants.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Faber, why are you
standing?
Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, at the beginning of this debate you said,
in the first instance, the Minister must give her presentation to
which we listened. Now, I would like to know if the Minister would
man up and answer or take a question.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Minister, are you ready
to take a question? She is not ready. Take your seat! Conclude, hon
Minister.
The MINISTER OF WATER AND SANITATION: Ours is to fight poverty,
inequality and unemployment. Today is better than yesterday.
Tomorrow will be better than today. We will soldier on. We know
those who are celebrating and protecting colonisation and apartheid,
and are using the black face to justify their cause.
Afrikaans:
Dankie.
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IsiZulu:
Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, the Budget Vote
debate on Water and Sanitation was our last Budget Vote. And I can
confirm that indeed, it started very well. It was indeed a very
lively and interesting debate. However, what happened at the end hon
Faber, you were correct when you said that heckling is allowed but
the Rules of the NCOP are very clear when it comes to the use of
offensive and unbecoming language. That will never be allowed!
Therefore, at all times, we have to make sure that we refrain from
anything that has to do with offensive and unbecoming language, if
we want to maintain the decorum of the House.
Let me take this opportunity to thank special delegates, the
Minister, and you, Salga, for availing yourself for this debate
today.
Debate concluded.
The Council adjourned at 16:26.