Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised Hansard
House: National Council of Provinces
Date of Meeting: 24 Nov 2016
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
THURSDAY, 24 NOVEMBER 2016
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PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
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The Council met at 14:00.
The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to
observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.
CHINESE VICE PRESIDENT, DR LI YUANCHAO COMMENDS PORT ELIZABETH-BASED
COEGA IDZ
(Draft Resolution)
Ms Z V NCITHA: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the
next sitting day of the Council I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the Council —
(1) notes that Chinese Vice President, Dr Li Yuanchao, has
commended the Port Elizabeth-based Coega Industrial
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Development Zone, CIDZ, as the best IDZ he has seen developing
in developing countries;
(2) congratulates IDZ as the top performing public sector
organisation in South Africa;
(3) notes that the Chinese Vice President was accompanied by the
Eastern Cape Premier, Phumulo Masualle and MEC Sakhumzi Somyo,
in the meeting aimed at strengthening bilateral ties between
provinces in the two countries; and
(4) calls upon the Eastern Cape provincial government to continue
supporting the Coega IDZ so that it can play a leading role in
developing the economy of the country.
Mr L B GAEHLER: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the
next sitting day of the Council I shall move on behalf of the UDM:
That the Council —
(1) notes that on 23 November it was reported that Mrs Pam Green
helped a stranger who was pushed out of a moving car along the
high way in Johannesburg;
(2) further notes that the stranger who was injured is a woman and
the perpetrator is alleged to be her husband;
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(3) notes that it is also alleged that police who are at the scene
stopped trying to get a statement from her after the woman
confirmed that the perpetrator was her husband;
(4) condemns the actions of the police who were called to the
scene;
(5) further congratulates Mrs Pam Green for her heroic action; and
(6) calls for the doubling of efforts in educating citizen on 16
Days of Activism for No Violence Against Women and Children.
NINE-YEAR-OLD BUKHO MPHO THULO FROM EAST LONDON IN THE EASTERN CAPE
GIVEN NEW LEASE ON LIFE
(Draft Resolution)
Mr L V MAGWEBU: Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council —
(1) notes three days ago a nine-year-old from East London in the
Eastern Cape had been given a new ‗lease‘ on life, thanks to
the Paralympian Ernst van Dyk who gave him the prosthetic
legs;
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(2) also notes that Bukho Mpho Thulo lost the use of his legs at
the age of three due to a rare disease,
(3) acknowledges that finally he is able to walk and play with his
friends, as the world commemorates disability month the story
of Bukho is a beacon of hope for many and a lesson that
teaches us to love and care for one another regardless of
race; and
(4) further acknowledges Ernst van Dyk for the love and kindness
showed towards Bukho.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Thank
you very much. Are there any - I saw your hand, hon member notices? Is your hand up, hon member?
Mr C HATTINGH: Hon Deputy Chair, I have a further motion without
notice similar to the one that was presented. You already handled a
motion without notice. Is that where we are now?
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: No, no,
we are dealing with notices of motions. In the absence of any member
wishing to give a notice then we can proceed.
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Mr C HATTINGH: Deputy Chair, I just want to point out to you that
the previous motion was a motion without notice. However, you did
not handle it procedurally.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Was it
a notice of motion or a motion without a notice?
Mr L V MAGWEBU: It is a motion without notice, Deputy Chair.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Okay, I
take it that there are no notices of motion anymore. So, can we then
take it that that was the first notice without motion? Is there any
objection to that motion?
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
PRESIDENT JACOB ZUMA TO LAUNCH THE 16 DAYS OF ACTIVISM FOR NO
VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN AND CHILDREN CAMPAIGN
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M J MOHAPI: Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council —
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(1) notes that President Jacob Zuma will on Friday 25 November
2016 launch 16 Days of Activism of No Violence Against Women
and Children campaign at Lebowakgomo Civic Centre, Lepelle
Nkumpi Local Municipality in Limpopo province;
(2) further notes that the 2016 event will be marked under the
theme: Count me in together moving a nonviolent South Africa
forward.
(3) Also notes that as part of the campaign government will also
convene a series of national dialogue sessions on violence
against women and children across the country towards finding
collective solutions to end the abuse in our communities; and
(4) calls on the people of South Africa to support this campaign
to ensure that the scourge of violence against women and
children is not tolerated in our country.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSTABLE AMANDA MADLIKOVA, SHOT DEAD IN PHILLIP EAST ON TUESDAY
(Draft Resolution)
Mr E M MLAMBO: Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice:
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That the Council —
(1) notes with profound sadness and dismay that the woman police
officer, Constable Amanda Madlikova, 33 years of age, was shot
dead in Phillip East on Tuesday, leaving behind her family
including a nine-month-old child, and her colleague who is in
a serious condition in hospital;
(2) further notes that the officers had just finished serving a
protection order when they were approached with a similar
complaint within the vicinity, and on their way to assist,
they were suddenly shot at by about allegedly three armed men
who subsequently robbed them of their firearms before they
fled the scene;
(3) notes that four months ago it was reported that the Western
Cape had until then most police attacks in the country for the
year, whereby the national figures are 714 and 276 of those in
the Western Cape alone; and
(4) takes this opportunity to call upon the respective authorities
to maximise the efforts to combat the scourge of criminality
and attack on police officers and convey our heartfelt
condolences to families and friends.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
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COUNCIL RECORDS DISMAY WITH THE MURDER OF AN OFFICIAL AT RABONI
CHRISTIAN SCHOOL IN BRITS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr C HATTINGH: Deputy Chairperson I move without notice:
That the Council —
(1) notes with shock and dismay the murder of Esbie Koster, an
official at Raboni Christian school in Brits.
(2) further notes that Ms Koster was brutally short from behind
after offering a lift to two learners.
(3) further notes that according to the SA Police Services‘s
statement the two learners, aged 16 and 17, were arrested on
charges of murder and hijacking; and
(4) takes this opportunity to convey our condolences to the
bereaved family.
PASSING ON OF COUNCILLOR ROCKY MALEBANE-METSING
(Draft Resolution)
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Ms T J MOKWELE: Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council —
(1) notes with sadness the passing of Cllr Rocky Malebane-Metsing
from Rustenburg Bojanala Region in the Northwest;
(2) also notes that Rocky passed on after being admitted to
Pretoria Hospital;
(3) further notes that he was an outspoken person who was fighting
corruption and money laundering in the province and Rustenburg
Local Municipality;
(4) acknowledges that he served the province of the Northwest as
the MEC for agriculture during Popo Molofe regime and later
relocated to the municipality as a Councillor; and
(5) believes that his passing left a vacuum in the province and
community of Kanana Village and the Rustenburg Municipality
where he was leader. May his soul rest in peace.
May his soul rest in peace.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
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PRESIDENT JACOB ZUMA LAUNCHES 16 DAYS OF ACTIVISM IN LIMPOPO
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M J MOHAPI: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby move without notice on
behalf of the ANC:
That the Council —
(1) notes that President Jacob Zuma, will on Friday 25 November
2016 launch the 16 Days of Activism of No Violence Against
Women and Children campaign at Lebowakgomo Civic Centre,
Lepelle-Nkumpi Local Municipality, in Limpopo province;
(2) further notes that the 2016 event will be marked under the
theme, Count Me In: Together Moving a Nonviolent South Africa
Forward;
(3) also notes that as part of the campaign, government will also
convene a series of national dialogue sessions on violence
against women and Children across the country towards finding
collective solutions to end the abuse in our communities; and
(4) therefore calls on to the people of South Africa to support
this campaign to make sure that the scourge of violence
against women and children is not tolerated in our country.
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Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
MURDER OF POLICE WOMAN IN PHILLIPI EAST
(Draft Resolution)
Mr E M MLAMBO: Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council —
(1) notes with profound sadness and dismay that a female police
officer, Constable Amanda Ladlokova, aged 33, was shot dead in
Philippi East on Tuesday, leaving behind her family, including
a nine-month old baby, and her colleague is in a serious
condition in hospital;
(2) further notes that the officers had just finished serving a
protection order when they were approached with a similar
complaint within the vicinity, and on their way to assist,
they were suddenly shot at by about allegedly three armed men
who subsequently robbed them of their firearms before they
fled the scene;
(3) also notes that four months ago it was reported that the
Western Cape had until then the most police attacks in the
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country for the year, whereby the national figures are 714,
and 276 of those occurred in the Western Cape alone; and
(4) takes this opportunity to call upon the respective authorities
to maximise the efforts to combat the scourge of criminality
and attack on police officers, and convey our heartfelt
condolences family and friends.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
MURDER OF SCHOOL OFFICIAL BY TWO LEARNERS IN BRITS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr C HATTINGH: Deputy Chairperson, we are really sad that we have to
bring these motions up in these 16 Days of Activism. I hereby wish
to move without notice on behalf of the DA:
That the Council —
(1) records with shock and dismay the murder of Esbie Koster, an
official at Raboni Christian School in Brits;
(2) notes that she was brutally shot from behind after offering a
lift to two learners;
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(3) further notes that according to the SA Police Services‘
statement, the two learners aged 16 and 17 were arrested on
charges of murder and hijacking; and
(4) takes this opportunity to convey condolences to the bereaved
family.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
MOTION OF CONDOLENCE
(The late Rocky Malebane-Metsing)
Ms T J MOKWELE: Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf
of the EFF:
That the Council —
(1) notes the passing of Cllr Rocky Malebane-Metsing from
Rustenburg, Bojanala region in Northwest, with sadness;
(2) also notes that Rocky passed on after being admitted to
Pretoria Hospital;
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(3) further notes that he was an outspoken person who was fighting
corruption and money laundering in the North West province and
in Rustenburg Local Municipality;
(4) acknowledges that he served the province of the North West as
the MEC for Agriculture during the period of Popo Molefe
regime, and later relocated to Rustenburg as a councillor; and
(5) believes that his passing left a vacuum in the province, the
community of Kanana Village and the Rustenburg Municipality
where he was leading - may his soul rest in peace.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
PASSING AWAY OF CHICKEN LICKEN FOUNDER
(Draft Resolution)
Ms G M MANOPOLE: Deputy Chair, I hereby wish to move without notice
on behalf of the ANC:
That the Council –
(1) notes with profound sadness, the death of the CEO and Founder
of Chicken Licken, Mr George Sombonos;
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(2) also notes that Mr Sombonos passed away last week at the age
of 67 after a long battle with cancer;
(3) further notes that his business acumen, dedication and
ingenuity led to the building of one of the most popular food
chains in South Africa; and
(4) takes this opportunity to convey its profound condolences to
the Sombonos family and friends for their loss.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
NINE MONTHS INVESTIGATION ON MISSING WOMAN FROM KURUMAN
(Draft Resolution)
Ms N P KONI: Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice on behalf of
the EFF:
That the Council –
(1) notes that Kegomoditswe Phuduhudu, from Kuruman in the John
Taelo Gaetsewe region in the Northern Cape, has been missing
for approximately nine months now;
(2) also notes that she left behind four children;
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(3) further notes that Kegomoditswe‘s case has been dragging on
since then and there has been no update from the police
services side;
(4) calls upon the Department of Police to speed up the
investigation as her children and family are struggling to
cope with their loss;
(5) records that she was last seen travelling to Vryburg in the
car of a certain pastor; and
(6) acknowledges that the family would appreciate to see the
alleged suspect apprehended as he is a well-known person in
that particular community.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
STUDY RESULTS ON VOILENCE AGAINST CHILDREN
(Draft Resolution)
Ms L L ZWANE: Deputy Chairperson of the Council, I hereby move
without notice:
That the Council –
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(1) notes with utmost concern the result of a study commissioned
by Save the Children South Africa‚ which shows that violence
against children cost the economy over R238 billion last year;
(2) further notes that the study, which used researchers from the
University of Cape Town‚ the University of Edinburgh and
Georgia State University focused on physical violence‚ sexual
violence‚ emotional violence and neglect to understand the
prevalence of violence against children in the country;
(3) acknowledges that the finding of the study brings a new
dimension in the fight against child abuse and violence
against children, as well as the urgency in which the scourge
of child abuse must be dealt with as a matter of urgency,
because of its enormous cost to the country and the innocent
lives, of what should be the cornerstones of our national
investment to a better and prosperous South Africa; and
(4) takes this opportunity to congratulate Save the Children South
Africa for their efforts in aiding decision makers, especially
parliamentarians with such crucial information in the fight of
violence against children in our country.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONCERNS ON CHURCHES WITH DANGEROUS UNORTHODOX PRACTICES
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(Draft Resolution)
Mr M PETER: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby move without notice on
behalf of the ANC:
That the Council –
(1) notes with utmost concern the increasing number of churches
and pastors who continue to use dangerous and unorthodox
practices;
(2) also notes the recent claims made by Pastor Lethebo Rabalago,
who runs the Mount Zion General Assembly in Limpopo province,
who claims he can cure cancer and HIV by spraying Doom
pesticide into people‘s faces,
(3) further notes that this case comes months after Pastor Penuel
Mnguni of the End Times Disciples Ministries made members of
his congregation eat snakes and rats, who even drove a car
over some of them with the claim that it will heal them, and
the emergence of pictures on social media of a church where
congregants are made to dance with alligators;
(4) takes this opportunity to warn our people to remain vigilant
against exploitation by people who use dangerous practices to
put their lives at risk for cheap publicity; and
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(5) calls on the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of
the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities
to work on measures that our country can put in place to deal
decisively with churches and people who use practices that
endanger the lives of people.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
EXORBITANT COSTS OF PRIVATE BASIC EDUCATION IN SOUTH AFRICA
(Draft Resolution)
Mr T G CHEPAPE: Deputy Chair, I hereby give notice that in the next
sitting of the Council:
That the Council –
(1) notes and debates the exorbitant costs of private basic
education in South Africa, including the category of schools
that are subsidised by government; and
(2) further notes that the fees of some schools at the basic
education level are triple the amount charged by some higher
institutions of learning in our country.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
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BIASED RULING DURING NCOP PLENARY
(Draft Resolution)
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Deputy Chairperson, I hereby wish to move without
notice on behalf of the DA:
That the Council -
(1) notes that with reference to Taking Parliament to the People
plenary on Friday, 18 November 2016, the Chair ruled that the
President is allowed to speak as long as he wanted;
(2) further notes that the ruling was biased as Rule 45 reads as
follows:
(a) 45(1) Except where these Rules provide otherwise, members
may not speak in a debate in the Council longer than the
time allocated to them in the list of scheduled speakers;
(b) 45(2) If or in so far as times have not been allocated- The
President, the Deputy President, and the Council member in
charge of the business before the Council, may speak for as
long as they need; ...
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(3) therefore also notes that 30 minutes was allocated to the
President according to the Speakers‘ List; and
(4) finally notes that the Chairpersons do not adhere to the rules
of the NCOP and is therefore closing the democratic space in
the NCOP in favour of the ANC.
The motion was not agreed to.
Therefore, the motion will read as a notice of motion.
TWO WESTERN CAPE COMPANIES FINED FOR COLLUSION & PRICE FIXING
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M T MHLANGA: Deputy Chair, I hereby move without notice on behalf
of the ANC:
That the Council -
(1) notes that the two companies that colluded and fixed prices
for their submissions for a tender of the provision of
cleaning services to the Western Cape Department of
Agriculture have been fined after admitting contravening the
Competition Act;
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(2) also notes that both companies were fined 1% of their annual
turnover of both firms for the year, up to February last year,
which means that Zara Cleaning Services would be paying the
Competition Commission R167 242 and Top N Nos Services would
pay R36 935; and
(3) further acknowledges that this case will send a clear and
decisive message to companies that continue to collude in
order to defraud the state, that their days too shall come.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CHRIS HANI FAMILY HOUSE TO BECOME MUSEUM
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M RAYI: Deputy Chair, I hereby move without notice on behalf of
the ANC:
That the Council -
(1) notes with a great sense of pride, the partnership between the
family of the late Secretary-General of the South African
Communist Party, Comrade Chris Thembisile Hani and the
Ekurhuleni Metropolitan Municipality to turn the house of this
late stalwart of our movement into a museum;
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(2) further notes that the heroic international stature of Comrade
Chris Hani represents the collective heritage of the struggle
for peace, freedom and justice of the people of South Africa,
united in diversity; and
(3) takes this opportunity to extend our collective gratitude to
the Hani family and the Ekurhuleni Metropolitan Council for
this courageous and patriotic venture, which will preserve and
pay homage to the legacy of Comrade Chris Hani for the
indelible contribution he made in our fight for liberation and
democracy for all our people.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
WESTERN CAPE GOVERNMENT ACHIEVES 100% UNQUALIFIED AUDITS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr J J LONDT: Deputy Chair, I hereby wish to move without notice on
behalf of the DA:
That the Council -
(1) congratulates the Western Cape Government on achieving 100%
clean or ‗unqualified‘ audits for the second year running for
all its provincial departments;
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(2) notes that the Western Cape Department of Health is the only
department in its sector nationally, to receive an unqualified
audit;
(3) also notes that the people of the Western Cape can rest
assured that public funds are well spent as it buys more
services like health care, education, infrastructure; and
(4) acknowledges that it attracts investment, stimulates economic
growth and creates jobs.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CALLS FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES’CAMPAIGN ON ROAD SAFETY
(Draft Resolution)
Mr J M MTHETHWA: Deputy Chair, I hereby move without notice on
behalf of the ANC:
That the Council –
(1) notes the beginning of the festive season during which
hundreds of people continue to lose their lives in road
carnage that is fuelled by speeding, reckless driving,
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intolerance, fatigue, driving under the influence and utter
disregard for road safety; and
(2) takes this opportunity to call on all road users and law
enforcement agencies to step up the campaign on road safety,
starting from the beginning of December 2016.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
MURDER OF CLLR COMMANDO ZOLEKA AT RAY KONANI MUNICIPALITY
(Draft Resolution)
Mr A S SINGH: Deputy Chair, I hereby move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes with regret that the tendency to gun down councillors
and murder them in cold blood continues unabated;
(2) also notes that Cllr Commando Zoleka of Ray Konani
Municipality was gunned down on Monday last week and buried on
Saturday;
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(3) further notes that his contribution in the struggle for
freedom and his leadership in SA Democratic Teachers‘ Union,
Sadtu, will never be forgotten; and
(4) wishes that his family and all South Africans be comforted by
the fact that he has served us well - may his soul rest in
peace!
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERRATION OF PROVINCIAL WEEK REPORT 12 TO 16 SEPTEMBER 2016
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Deputy Chairperson, the
Chairperson of the NCOP, Minister, hon members, our special
delegates and distinguished guests, the son of the soil, the late
Tanzanian President, Julius Kambarage Nyerere, in his speech on
Stability and Change in Africa that was presented at the University
of Toronto in Canada on 2 October 1969 said, and I quote, ―If a door
is shut, attempts should be made to open it; if it is ajar, it
should be pushed until it is wide open. In neither case should the
door be blown up ... ‖
It is the above attitude that should guide us in responding to how
best we can work together to make access to education and health
care work for all.
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We are particularly heartened by the decision to make education and
health an apex priority as this posture resonates with what our icon
Tata Mandela once said, and I quote, ―A good head and a good heart
are always a formidable combination. But when you add to that a
literate tongue or open, then you have something very special.‖
We are also mindful of what his views are on education when he said,
and I quote, ―Education is the most powerful weapon which you can
use to change the world.‖
The National Development Plan, NDP, commits all South Africans to a
shared collective responsibility and vision to make South Africa
work and solve the complex problems of the legacy of apartheid,
particularly education and health as priority areas. Central to this
resolve, is the commitment to work together to make access to
education and health care work for all.
Amongst others, the NDP commits South Africa to leverage social
responsibilities of democracy by achieving the following health
priority areas by 2030: Progressively improve tuberculosis, TB,
prevention and cure and universal health care coverage by ensuring
that everyone has access to an equal standard of care, regardless of
their income.
In achieving the objectives of the broader developmental framework,
education has been identified as being a central component due to
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its role in building an inclusive society. It provides equal
opportunities for all South Africans to realise their full
potential, particularly those previously disadvantaged by apartheid.
The NDP further requires fundamental investments in education,
childhood development, basic education, further and higher
education.
Ngonyaka wama-2030, Umzantsi Afrika kufuneka uqinisekise ukuba wonke
umntu uya kufikelela kwimfundo esisiseko noqeqesho lwemfundo
ephakamileyo eza kuba luncede ekutshintsheni impilo yabantu.
(Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[In 2030, South Africa must ensure that everyone has access to basic
education and further education and training, which will help bring
about change in people‘s lives.]
The performance of South African learners in international
standardised tests should be comparable to the performance of
learners from countries at a similar level of development and with
similar levels of access. Education should be compulsory up to
Grade 12 or equivalent levels in vocational education and training.
Hon Deputy Chairperson, allow me to take you back to the objectives
for this year‘s programme which intended to enable the NCOP an
opportunity to follow up on commitments made in the delivery of
education and health care services to communities and to ascertain
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the progress that South Africa is making in meeting the commitments
made in the NDP.
Perhaps, some may want to understand why it was necessary so step
out of the parameters of Parliament and go to our respective
provinces to engage with the real people on the ground. In the
Eastern Cape, for instance, we learned that the province has taken
progressive steps in the strengthening of primary health care which
include the enhancement of a province wide community-based outreach
services.
In 2015-16 to enhance the coverage the province activated mobile
clinics, especially for deep rural areas. Two hundred and forty one
primary health care sites were assessed to determine ideal clinics
status. Fifteen of these were awarded ideal clinic status including
Yethu, Elundini, Maletswai, Qaukeni and Mthatha. The remainder are
on improvement programmes to ensure our citizens receive quality
health care service. Client satisfaction surveys rates in the first
quarter of 2016-17 show that the province is doing well.
With regards to education, hon Minister, the department had
committed to offer quality education and transform schools into
centres of community activity. In the 2016 academic year, the
province saw an increased access to schooling for Grade 9 learners.
This improvement was largely due to strong advocacy programmes that
were implemented by the province. Furthermore, the scholar transport
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system, though still requiring improvement, continues to play a role
to enhance access of schooling to learners in disadvantaged
communities.
There was good progress in areas of functionality of the School
Governing Bodies, SGBs, which are a key feature in the schooling
system. There are programmes of teacher development, mentorship and
recruitment of principals to enhance functionality of schools. We
were able to attest to some of these in our recent Taking Parliament
to the People programme in the Eastern Cape which was seen by most
the members present here today. It would not be surprising though to
learn that in this same debate, some would decide to act as if this
is new information.
Hon Minister, we are aware of the challenges that are there and we
are happy that you are present today. For an example in the Northern
Cape, with regards to the issue of learner transport we noted that
lack of communication between the two departments responsible for
learner transport was an issue of great concern. In addition, it was
unacceptable that there was no reporting by the Department of
Transport, Safety and Liaison as this contravened the Public Finance
Management Act.
We committed that the NCOP would go back and check whether there was
a national policy framework in place, as there was an undertaking in
the Fourth Parliament by both departments that such a framework
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would be developed. We hope that this information has served before
you, hon Minister.
With regards to overcrowding in the classrooms, members were deeply
concerned that there was still severe overcrowding in schools in the
townships and in the poor areas. Our members wanted to know what the
department had done regarding that problem, especially in the John
Taolo Gaetsewe District. As such, we requested that the names of the
overcrowded schools be supplied. Through our committees and
oversight activities we should be able to look at these schools and
make sure that the status quo is improved, hon Minister.
Ha tsaka ku vona leswaku xifundzankulu xa Northern Cape xi endla
makungu yo nyika tindhawu to pfuna vavabyi na ku herisa swiphiqo
leswi tisiwaka hi mavabyi ya HIV/Aids na swin‘wana swo tala. [Va
phokotela.] (Translation of Xitsonga paragraph follows.)
[We are happy to see that the Northern Cape Province is making plans
to provide facilities to assist patients and to get rid of problems
that are brought forth by HIV/AIDS and many more.] [Applause.]
Hon members would recall that we were in Limpopo for the same
Provincial Week in 2015. In a briefing by the premier this year, the
following progress was appreciated: The province has invoked section
18 of the Public Finance Management Act in the education department.
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The Auditor-General, AG, was also involved and had indicated that
there was progress in the department.
Hon Deputy Chairperson, it remains puzzling that when we find
opportunities to give credit where it is due, we tend to choose
selectively and unfortunately end up ignoring to commend where there
is progress. Our interface with government departments, entities,
municipalities and the private sector through our oversight
activities, committee meetings, plenaries and other fora must be
able to indicate to us whether or not there are any improvements
subsequent to the programmes such as the Provincial Week or Taking
Parliament to the People.
Where necessary the right interventions must be applied by all
means. When we make time to conduct oversight and engage outside our
comfort spaces, we must always put aside party politics often guided
by a tongue-lashing exercise at the cost of those that we are
elected to represent. I hope that even today, we will be hearing
stories that seek to build than to destroy. We need to make input
that gives hope to those that we serve.
In Mpumalanga, we note the undertakings made by the premier wherein
he cited several key interventions to speed up service delivery
within the Lekwa Local Municipality area district.
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Sikushayela tandla kutsi Ndvunankhulu, Mnu D D Mabuza, wente tibopho
nekutiniketela kucinisekisa kutsi bomasipala basebentisana nawo
onkhe ematiko ahulumende ekwenteni simo senhlalo, lizinga lemfundvo
netemphilo kube sezingeni lelamukelekile. Kubalulekile kutfutfwa
kwendle, kwabiwa kwagezi, kwemanti, nekwakhiwa kwetindzawo tekuhlala
kutsi kube ngutona tintfo letitawuhanjiswa embili. (Translation of
Siswati paragraph follows.)
[We applaud you Premier, Mr DD Mabuza, for committing yourself to
ensuring that municipalities work together with all government
departments in making social condition, quality education and health
to be of acceptable standard. Sanitation, electricity and water
supply as well as the building of houses are important things that
must be prioritised.]
During public hearings across all provinces, one recurring motif was
our communities‘ pleas for better service delivery in most of our
health care facilities. Tough efforts to roll out these facilities
are being intensified and their relevance can only be given a life
by a committed work force.
I therefore wish to refer to a quote by Mahatma Gandhi who when
faced with a situation similar to ours said, and I quote:
A customer is the most important visitor on our premises; he is
not dependent on us. We are dependent on him. He is not an
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interruption in our work. He is the purpose of it. He is not an
outsider in our business. He is part of it. We are not doing him a
favour by serving him. He is doing us a favour by giving us an
opportunity to do so.
In conclusion, hon Deputy Chairperson, given these commitments,
today‘s debate should be able to assist with the following: Firstly,
it must harness our collective efforts in ensuring access to both
primary health care and education; secondly, it must also be able
through our committees, to follow up in all our engagements with
those that are responsible and accountable to these commitments, hon
Minister; thirdly, we must be able to accelerate infrastructure
delivery, management and maintenance; and lastly but also very
important, it must strengthen the monitoring and evaluation of our
systems as well as intensify our oversight mechanisms. I thank you,
Deputy Chairperson. [Applause.]
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Sekela Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo, okokuqala
... [Hon Deputy Chairperson, firstly, ...]
... education is not preparation for life, education is life in
itself. When looking at the issue of quality education, it is
imperative to tackle it at the grassroots level specifically
starting with basic education in order to prepare learners for
secondary and higher education. We would like to commend the Western
Cape Education Department on their outstanding performance over the
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past couple of years. The Western Cape Education Department has
aimed to achieve its strategic goals rather than just achieving
numbers.
The Western Cape Education Department further administers
independently set Grade 3, 6 and 9 tests in language and
mathematics. This reaffirms that the DA-led government is devoted to
investing in the quality of their results. Furthermore, systemic
tests such as the Annual National Assessments are administered,
tested and marked by competent external service providers in the
Western Cape. Due to these practices being put in place, the quality
of language and mathematical education has significantly improved.
However, this is not a reality that is experienced by every province
in South Africa.
The Eastern Cape is of dire concern as it has been the worst
performing education department. This province has been the home to
the lowest matric pass rate continuously over the past five years.
In 2014, more than 34 out of the 100 matriculants failed to obtain a
passing grade. These are the results of the lack of policies and
strategies that were not in place to ensure functionality in
schools.
The lack of the ANC-led government‘s sustained interventions in
schools has resulted in poor performance. The DA has seen
improvements in schools with high proportions of historically
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disadvantaged learners, thanks to our Western Cape Education
Department. These interventions include learners having textbooks to
assist them with the process of learning. In addition, the Western
Cape Education Department has ensured that teachers are trained and
fully equipped in assisting children with any challenges they may
face whilst learning.
The health sector is another problematic governmental sector in our
country. However, due to our country‘s history and our socioeconomic
realities we find that majority of our country‘s population is
dependent on public health, while a minority of only 20% is able to
afford private health care. The consequences of this is that the
public health system is under an immense amount of pressure to meet
the demands of the public, while still being in most provincial
areas, significantly under-resourced.
According to the Medical Research Council, our country faces a
quadruple burden of disease which includes HIV/Aids,
underdevelopment, chronic diseases related to unhealthy lifestyle
and injuries. Current statistics show that provinces such as
KwaZulu-Natal, Mpumalanga and the Eastern Cape are rated as having a
high rate of HIV/Aids prevalence. Again, the same provinces are also
found ranked at the top of the list for high prevalence of TB. It is
important to note that in both surveys, the DA-run Western Cape was
ranked as having the lowest prevalence of people living with HIV and
Aids and TB. This could be attributed to the fact that our education
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system has, year after year, proved to be of a better quality and
standard or it could be because of the fact that we make sure that
we are constantly in sync with our public health care system,
ensuring that all necessary resources are available timeously and
all arising issues are prioritised and dealt with accordingly.
The DA has pledged us to ensure that South Africans are not only
able to realise their constitutional rights to education and health
care but are also able to fully exercise those rights. We are
committed to producing a well-cared for and well-educated democratic
and equal South Africa, as well as a South Africa with a health care
system that promotes and protects healthy living in order for us to
truly realise and reach our developmental goals.
The current state of our education and health care system is
inadequate and in dire need of attention. We as the DA believe that
South Africans deserve a party that will serve them and look after
their basic needs and interests. Let us stop the cycle of producing
undereducated youth and incompetent cadres deployed into education
and health care facilities because this becomes detrimental to the
government.
Let us start instilling hope and trust in the South African people‘s
perception of service delivery by doing away with practices that
fail, and adopt more dependable approaches. As hon Nyambi has just
stated, we need to structure a mould, nurture and nourish each
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other. My advice to the Minister is that let us take the best model
from the Western Cape province and allow freedom, fairness and
opportunity to be afforded. Let us be better for all South Africans
and benefit the South African child accordingly.
Ndiyabulela, Sihlalo. [Thank you, Chairpeson.]
Mr M PETER – (EASTERN CAPE CHAIRPERSON SAFETY & SECURITY): Hon
Deputy Chairperson, Minister of Basic Education, permanent
delegates, amongst you, uMama Chief Whip, siyabulisa [Greetings] and
guests.
It is always a pleasure to me to be debating in this House; more
especially when NCOP is debating matters of societal importance.
The recent NCOP Provincial Week provided an opportunity to
communities and organs of civil society to engage their
representatives in Parliament on what they see as solutions to
factors that have an effect in delaying service delivery.
Our engagements with school principals, School Governing Bodies,
SGB‘s, which are organs of people‘s power in the sector, labour
unions, and traditional leaders in their respective communities
provided us with a thorough and scientific analysis of the factors
that make some of our schools not to work as they are supposed to.
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Our view is in the Eastern Cape is that the department is confronted
and it is confronting the challenges of a changing education system.
We are not living in an island; we are part of this Republic. Over
the past two decades of democratic dispensation, the budget of
people‘s education has increased dramatically.
In this financial year, others were not part of the visits, that is
why they speak loudly.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr R J Tau): Order, hon members.
Mr M PETER - EASTERN CAPE CHAIRPERSON SAFETY & SECURITY: They must
listen. In this financial year, Treasury, has allocated an amount of
R31 billion for the Provincial Department of Education to run its
programmes. A big chunk of this budget is bias towards quality
teaching and learning programme. This is what education is all
about, where there is a teacher in front of learners in a classroom
teaching at least seven hours a day.
Other programmes are about creating a conducive environment in
schools so that we deliver quality education. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr R J Tau): Just hold on, hon
Peter. Can you take your seat? What point are you raising on, hon
member?
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Ms T J MOKWELE: I just wanted to ask whether the hon member would
take a question.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr R J Tau): Are you prepared to
take a question?
Mr M PETER – EASTERN CAPE CHAIRPERSON SAFETY & SECURITY: After the
sitting, Deputy Chairperson.
Ms T J MOKWELE: No, where will you ...
Mr M PETER - EASTERN CAPE CHAIRPERSON SAFETY & SECURITY: No, he is
not prepared to take a question.
Mr M PETER - EASTERN CAPE CHAIRPERSON SAFETY & SECURITY: The ANC is
still committed in making education a foundation from which we build
the future, and it must be a key to our economic growth and social
stability - This is the definition of the ANC - It is totally
different from that of the DA.
Therefore, the reconstruction of a people‘s education system is no
easy matter, it needs support from all sectors of society with the
aim of creating a new, best, and a responsibly citizen for the
country to prosper.
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Our education policy is focusing more on making education accessible
to the majority of those who were in the periphery of the economy so
that they are not condemned to the status of being better labourers
whilst those coming from affluent backgrounds enjoy the best
opportunities.
As we speak, 68 000 learners in the Eastern Cape are covered on
scholar transport programme, although according to the Department of
Education, learners in need number is around 95 000, but we are
increasing the numbers every year.
We still have a challenge as far as infrastructure is concerned, and
the Department of Basic Education must work hand in hand with the
provincial department and support in building its capacity so that
it will be able to roll-out infrastructure development in areas
where there is greater need of new schools. The reason for this is
that education remains a concurrent function between the province
and national.
We need a radical and a comprehensive programme to eradicate
inappropriate structures more especially in the eastern side of the
province. In fact, development has never been an event, it is not a
miracle, it is an ongoing programme, which needs a concerted effort.
We appreciate the Accelerated Schools Infrastructure Delivery
Initiative, Asidi, which resulted to the province handing over about
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50 schools to communities. We are looking forward the next number of
schools under the Asidi programme because it is changing the
situation for the better.
The conditional grants which were allocated to the province exposed
the lack of capacity within the department of education, and the
role of implementing agencies will need to be reviewed as we move
forward.
I will agree with some of the speakers on the migration of learners
between Eastern Cape, Western Cape, and Gauteng to some extent. This
movement is historic between these provinces, and it is caused by
inequalities of human living.
All countries that have gone through a period of transition, postcolonisation period had to confront similar challenges. The same
challenges that faced Kenya in the 1960‘s are what South Africa is
battling with today, because we are also learning from the Second
World countries as they gone through the same journey towards their
development.
The questions for this debate are: Firstly; how education can be
changed to suit a new context? Secondly; how education can bring
about a new African child? These are questions for debate.
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In conclusion, as the ANC and government, we have a mandate and the
power to make what Madiba said should happen, and I quote;
South Africa needs a new system of education, which must ensure
that a child of a farmworker becomes a leader of a great nation,
and a child of a mineworker becomes a manager of a mine, and a
child of poor woman becomes a doctor.
We have a mandate and power to achieve Madiba‘s dream and vision on
people‘s education. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M KHAWULA: Hon Chairperson, the KwaZulu-Natal Provincial Week of
12 to 16 September 2016 focussed on education and health in the
Harry Gwala Sisonke District. The projects visited over three days
in the district were Pholela Community Health Clinic, Underberg
Clinic, Thukeyana Primary School, Vulekani Special School, St
Margaret‘s TB Hospital, Glengary Primary School, Zwelinzima Senior
Secondary School, East Griqualand, and Usher Memorial Hospital.
We had our briefing session on Tuesday, 13 September in
Pietermaritzburg with the education MEC and the Health MEC before
visiting all these sites.
Our observations with the healt department were: That the department
is trying the best it can do under the very trying circumstances.
Harry Gwala is a deep rural district. As a result, it is difficult
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to attract and retain the scarce skills in the area, especially in
Pholela Community Health Centre, CHC. We met the chief executive
officer, who is a very dedicated young man, Dr Gumede. Also at St
Margaret‘s TB Hospital, which is a very old hospital, but the staff
are doing their best.
The Department of Health must prioritise the building and improving
of structures in Sisonke. St Margaret‘s TB Hospital is a mud
hospital, something that one cannot think of at this day and age.
Government should stop promising heaven and earth and deliver
nothing. St Margaret‘s Hospital was promised by MEC Dr Dhlomo, that
it will be relocated to new buildings years ago. The hospital board
reported that at some point, they were even invited to a budget
speech there in Pietermaritzburg by the MEC. Later, the MEC
backtracked and pretended not to know what the board was talking
about when they were making follow up on this nondelivery.
Government also needs to prioritise increasing health emergency
vehicles in that district as this is causing a problem in
operations. It is a pity that KwaZulu-Natal health is reported to
have underspent even with these challenges.
With regard to education, Sisonke District has a huge management
crisis. The district management is lost on issues. The circuits are
lost. This is all due to cadre deployment because the district
manager is the type of that animal. Presentations on education were
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badly prepared. Sometimes the district was not available to give
clarity on issues.
At Thukeyana Primary School, National School Nutrition Programme,
NSNP, is badly managed, hon Minister. The school uses firewood on
three-legged pots outdoors. This is a common scenario in most
schools in that district.
At Vulekani Special School, matters are even worse. This is a school
for physically and mentally challenged learners. Administration is
in tatters. There are allegations of sexual abuse of these learners
by a staff member who is still at the school. There are buildings
which were supposed to have completed five years ago, but are still
unfinished. The reason is because the contractor failed to deliver
and abandoned construction.
Learners are supposed to be transported by bus, but the bus has
broken down and learners both from hostel and local area are unable
to go to school if parents cannot afford alternative transport.
It was reported that sometimes learners receive tuition from the
hostel because of this transport problem. The hostel itself is in
tatters. After our visit, these matters were all over the Sowetan on
September 26, under the heading, and I quote; ―Abuser guards
pupils‖. On 27 September, under the heading, and I quote; ―Shocking
condition at school of shame‖. The caption talked about overcrowding
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mud classes, stinking toilets, and that pupils are not getting the
attention they deserve.
Surely, education is suffering a lot of challenges in Harry Gwala
District. Some parts of the district are in government circles
categorised as urban, for example, Kokstad. As a result, they suffer
when it comes to packages of rural allowances to staff. The issue of
nonpayment of correct categories of rural allowances does impact
negatively to recruitment of personnel in Sisonke and Harry Gwala
District.
In conclusion, one appreciates that during our Provincial Week, we
were in the company of provincial portfolio committee members of
both Education and Health. Both committees committed to urgently go
back to the district to follow up on the issues that were seen as
burning issues. I thank you, Deputy Chairperson.
Mr N M SIBIYA: Deputy Chairperson, members of this House, hon
Minister, let me take this House through a reflection on a reality
that, I think, is very important to be shared.
Sadly, the speaker who was just here belongs to those who made sure
that we don‘t prosper.
Let me take this opportunity and firstly acknowledge the reality I
see today. Never even once did we blacks ever think we would be
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standing at this podium. Not even in our wildest dreams did we think
that the brutality of the white man would ever be brought to its
knees.
After 22 years of democracy we can indeed certainly tell a tale of
how things have changed for the better in this country of ours
thanks to the people‘s movement, which is the ANC.
I‘m just a rural boy from eNquthu, KwaZulu-Natal, who grew up
drinking from the river. We had no health facilities, no
electricity, no water, no schools or proper roads. Let me tell you,
things have turned around 180 degrees. Today we have a clinic,
proper schools, proper roads and we no longer drink from the river
but from a tap. We never dreamt of experiencing such a quick
improvement in the life of a deep rural and remote area such as
eNquthu.
Who ever thought a black man will have an ambulance fetching him
from home when he is sick. For us, that was a dream. It was
something we never thought would ever happen. But, today, you see
ambulances in deep rural areas and in mountains fetching our sick
people. That‘s the reality.
I then sit back, reflect and ask why the apartheid government never
allowed us to have access to such basic needs. Then you realise that
we never mattered to them. We were treated like animals. Their
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brutality can never be forgotten. I always wonder what can change
them today in blue, but the reality is that they will never change.
All they want is to still be in power and continue brutalising us,
and nothing else. That is why, even today, some see blacks as
nothing but conduits and tools for them to get back to power. We see
some of them here today.
Sadly, some have allowed themselves to be used to advance the
apartheid agenda. That is still ... We see its legacy today. They
don‘t even see anything wrong because they are blinded by being
honorary whites.
I‘m raising this in the midst of a sad story which I think we cannot
ignore. A certain Mr Mlotshwa from Mpumalanga was recently put in a
coffin alive by two white men. It‘s a reminder to us that we easily
forget and forgive but they still see us as animals, and nothing
else. Let us not forget that things haven‘t changed for some among
them. They still see us as animals.
In the words of Thomas Sankara:
You cannot carry out fundamental change without a certain amount
of madness. In this case, it comes from nonconformity, the courage
to turn your back on the old formulas, the courage to invent the
future.
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Indeed, we are at a point where we need to change and move with
speed in radically transforming the lives of all South African
people.
KwaZulu-Natal has moved mountains under this government to improve
the education standard of the rural people in that province.
[Interjections.] The work that has been done is out there for
everyone to see. Members who were part of the delegation during the
NCOP Week can attest to this.
Let me address uBabu Khawula who was here. The Portfolio Committee
of Education in the province of KwaZulu-Natal went attended to all
the issues that were identified by the NCOP, and all of them have
been addressed by the portfolio committee and the KwaZulu-Natal
Education Department. That is how swiftly we move in addressing
challenges. We don‘t wait. [Applause.]
The infrastructure that has been put in place in many of the new
schools is an indication of a province that strives for excellence.
[Interjections.]
We are known to be the province with the largest number of learners
writing matric maths this year. [Interjections.] In fact, we are
unmatched because we want to produce learners who can contribute
meaningfully to the economy of our country ... [Interjections.]
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The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Sibiya, please take your
seat. On what point are you rising, hon member?
An HON MEMBER: Chair, I rise on Rule 33. Members are disturbing the
member at the podium.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I think that‘s a fair comment.
Let us not drown the speaker. Try to listen to the speaker.
[Interjections.] On what point are you rising, hon member?
Mr W F FABER: Deputy Chairperson, yes, as I don‘t want to drown this
honourable speaker, would the honourable speaker then please take a
question, as he is so verbally saying things ... I would like to ask
him a straight question, if he‘s not scared to answer me.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Sibiya, are you prepared to
take a question?
Mr N M SIBIYA: No, Deputy Chair, I don‘t have time for that.
Mr W F FABER: As I thought! Too scared!
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: He does not want to take a
question. Please continue. [Interjections.]
Mr N M SIBIYA: Thank you, Deputy Chairperson ... [Interjections.]
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The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Just hold on. Take your seat,
hon member. [Interjections.] Hon Hattingh?
Mr C HATTINGH: You made reference to crossing the line when we were
in East London. [Interjections.] I didn‘t mention it when this
person ... when this person mentioned cross the line ...
[Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, I want to listen to
the point the member is raising. [Interjections.] Please allow me an
opportunity to hear him out?
Mr C HATTINGH: Deputy Chairperson, I understand that he is a new
member, but, in terms of Rule 51, the hon member must do as you
requested, and sit down when a point of order is being raised.
[Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Okay, the point is taken.
Mr C HATTINGH: Please sit down.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Are you raising a point of
order? [Interjections.] No, stand up, hon member. I will instruct
you to sit down.
Mr N M SIBIYA: Thank you, Chair.
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The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Are you rising on a point of
order?
Mr C HATTINGH: I want to put my point of order once the member has
sat down.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, no, no! No, no, no! Are you
rising? I am asking you.
Mr C HATTINGH: I am rising on a point of order.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Okay. Hon member, can you take
your seat. Can I hear the point of order?
Mr C HATTINGH: Chair, my point of order is in terms of Rule 51,
which states that an hon member must sit down when you order him to
sit down. Thank you.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Please continue with the debate,
hon member.
Mr N M SIBIYA: Chair, at times, age can be very challenging. I know.
I understand the level of stress. He is much stressed to see some of
us here. [Interjections.]
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The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Please hold on, hon Sibiya. On
what point are you rising, hon member?
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: I would like to know whether it is parliamentary
to refer to a member‘s age in a derogatory way. I want you to rule
on that, Chair.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, I didn‘t hear him mentioning
any member with reference to age. He just made a general statement
about age.
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Chair, that was not a general statement; that was
a negative statement.
An HON MEMBER: I am also old, Chair!
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Labuschagne, please take
your seat. Please continue with the debate, hon member.
[Interjections.]
Mr N M SIBIYA: Chairperson, we have 167 000 matriculants writing
matric final examinations this year. The KwaZulu-Natal Education
Department is the biggest in the country with a huge number of
learners — 2,6 million — in its system, with more than 6 000 schools
and about 105 000 employees. This is a clear indication of the task
at hand in the province.
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Sadly, the budget allocated to this province doesn‘t speak to this.
We are appealing to this House to relook at the allocation given to
KwaZulu-Natal because it is almost impossible to operate such a huge
department with an allocation that doesn‘t match its need. Almost
the entire budget has to be used to fund salaries. This does not
help us deal with other challenges.
The KwaZulu-Natal Education Department, in its quest to make sure
that we produce quality and nothing else, has taken a bold stance in
fighting irregularities during matric exams. The high level of
monitoring is watertight and this will assist Umalusi to assure
credible matric results.
The province has also taken the radical decision — which is long
overdue — to provide girl children at all schools with free sanitary
towels. We have just launched that programme. [Applause.] This will
go a long way towards helping the girl children in the province.
The National School Nutrition Programme, NSNP, has reached a stage
where we are all comfortable acknowledging what hon Khawula has
said: that the R1,2 billion budgeted for it goes exactly where it is
needed and black children are the main beneficiaries.
The status of health system in KwaZulu-Natal has improved quite a
great deal, indeed ...
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... abantu bakithi sebephila isikhathi eside Sihlalo. [... our
people have a long lifespan now, Chair.]
Thanks to this government of the ANC, the anti-retroviral, ARV,
program has managed to save many lives. People now understand better
what it means to use ARVs and its importance in their lives.
The province of KwaZulu-Natal is grateful to Cuba. The Cuban program
has managed to train about 131 doctors who are already working in
our hospitals while 338 will be coming back to start working in our
hospitals in 2018. This is going to change the face of the province
all together. We are indeed grateful to our historical allies in the
struggle. We say, may the legacy of our permanent friend, the
revolutionary par excellence, Fidel Castro, live forever.
Our clinics can be found everywhere in the province and are playing
a major role in primary health care. They are functional and
responsive. We have seen a huge decline in the queues that used to
be seen in hospitals.
In closing, I want to borrow from Frantz Fanon, who said:
For a colonized people, the most essential value, because [it is]
the most concrete, is first and foremost the land: the land which
will bring them bread and, above all, dignity.
24 NOVEMBER 2016
PAGE: 56 of 124
Indeed, that is why the ANC has prioritised the issue of land to
make sure that our people benefit from it. Thank you.
Mr T G CHEPAPE (Limpopo): Chairperson of the NCOP, Deputy
Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members of the NCOP, members of other
provincial legislatures, ladies and gentlemen, 22 years ago, the
government of the ANC had embarked on a programme of building a new
nation which was to be transformed in a quest to achieve a
nonracial, nonsexist society united in its diversity. As a matter of
fact, Chair, at the start of this transformation agenda, we started
at a snail pace. However, today there is no doubt that more have
been achieved in relation to building a South Africa that upholds
human dignity, social justice and human rights.
Today we are leaving in a democratic country wherein our
Constitution remains a guiding tool for our actions in delivering
basic services to our people. Democracy created opportunities and
access to government services and protects our rights. South Africa
today is better than it was before 1994.
It is our believe hon chair, that the government of the ANC has done
exceptionally well in delivering basic services to the people of
South Africa. And this requires us from time to time to assess the
progress we have made thus far. Interrogate the shortcomings and
further plan ahead with a view that setbacks discovered does not
find any expression in future.
24 NOVEMBER 2016
PAGE: 57 of 124
It is against this background that as the Limpopo legislature, we
participated in the NCOP Provincial Week of 12 to the 16 September
2016. The ANC, in its entire Manifesto made commitments to improve
healthcare in both urban and rural areas and further to improve and
promote education as the apex priority. As part of this commitment
the ANC-led government broadened access to adequate education and
training as well as the healthcare.
The provincial week helped us to follow on these commitments that we
have made to our people. As the Limpopo legislature, we focused in
the Sekhukhune District, a highly rural and poor district, hon
Chair. We visited a number of healthcare facilities and schools. We
met with the SGBs, school principals, teachers and other
stakeholders in education as well as in health. We must report, hon
Chair, that all of them want better education and better healthcare
system. They believe that the ANC is the only organisation that can
deliver this to them.
Education being the pillar of transformation and development has not
been fully accessible in some cases to some learners who have to
balance schooling and household responsibilities. In this case, I am
referring to learners who have lost their parents through death and
to others whose parents are working at farms and these children
remain to be heads of their own families.
24 NOVEMBER 2016
PAGE: 58 of 124
There were some teachers who were affected by non-payment or late
payment in some schools that we visited in the district of
Sekhukhune. However, the department of education in the province has
promised that the matter is receiving attention and will be dealt
with. Hon Chair, there are problems with our infrastructure at
schools. In our province most of the schools were storm damaged and
the Limpopo Department of Education is busy having a programme of
addressing these issues of infrastructure.
Generally, in the Sekhukhune district, hon Chair, in last year‘s
matric results the district did not perform well. There were some
schools that underperformed. The district has presented to us during
this week, a turnaround strategy that has been implemented to assist
the underperforming schools, and we hope that this year the
situation will be different.
During that week we visited a number of circuit offices, amongst
them, the Moutse Central Circuit office in Moutse. The facility in
which the circuit is situated is incomplete since the contractor
abandoned the project before completion. The decision to occupy this
facility was taken in an effort to safeguard the building although
it does not have electricity, water and enough furniture. This
situation negatively affects the functioning of the circuit.
Hon Chair, in the district we were pleased to learn that the number
of learners who benefit from the National School Nutrition Programme
24 NOVEMBER 2016
PAGE: 59 of 124
in the district is 224 272 for primary schools and 144 664 for
secondary schools. This is only in the district, in the province the
number is more than 900 000, while more than 5 660 learners benefit
from the scholar transport in the district.
In all the circuit that we visited, there were no schools that
complained about lack of textbooks. So this is the thing of the past
in the province. We want to appreciate the Department of Education
in the province for distributing textbooks on time, this time
around.
This, hon Chair, shows that the government has been successful in
its promise to deliver free and quality education to our people.
Education remains a key priority to eradicate poverty. It remains
key as a requirement for self-growth, self-recognition, and a tool
of unlocking individual and collective growth as well as
development.
Hon Chair, in health TB is the most prevalent disease in the
district just like in the whole province. HIV and TB co-infection is
also a challenge but great achievement has been made with regard to
case findings and management. The prevalent rate in this case is
20,3%. The Department of Health is embarking on intensified case
finding through TB screening, testing and linking patience to care.
24 NOVEMBER 2016
PAGE: 60 of 124
There are a number of findings that were made during that visit
related to health issues, such as the shortages of staff, and in
some cases shortages of some medical equipment. The state of health
in Limpopo is not dire, hon Chair; and at the same time that there
are efforts to mitigate the status quo through an improvising
levels.
Many clinics visited in the district do not provide 24-hour services
due to shortages of staff, as I indicated earlier. We visited one
hospital in the Ephraim Mogale Local Municipality - Matlala
hospital. This hospital encompasses two towns; namely, Groblersdal
and Marble Hall. The hospital renders services to 67 villages around
it with seven clinics, and all these clinics do not provide 24-hour
services.
This creates problems for patients who cannot travel long distance
at night to access the hospital. The Department of Health in the
province promised that there are plans to increase 24-hours clinics
to increase access at primary health care levels, even though this
is still a challenge because there is slow and low output of nurses
required assisting in this regard.
The nursing college that is there in the district lacks human
resource because some lectures and tutors migrate to more paying
jobs therefore rendering the nursing college unproductive and
inefficient. Hon Chairperson, most of the challenges that were
24 NOVEMBER 2016
PAGE: 61 of 124
identified like the filling of funded vacancies we agreed that they
should be given priority by the department.
It was also recommended that in both education and health
departments, through the assistance of the provincial Treasury all
this funded vacant posts must be filled with immediate effect.
We also made an undertaking as the provincial legislature that we
need to ensure that all the recommendations made during this
provincial week are fully implemented through the Portfolio
Committee on Education and the Portfolio Committee on Health.
We believe that we will continue to provide services to our people.
I thank you Chair. [Applause.]
Mr T G CHEPAPE (Limpopo): Chairperson - Public Administration): Hon
Chairperson of the NCOP, Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister, hon
members of the NCOP, members of other provincial legislatures,
ladies and gentlemen, 22 years ago, the government of the ANC had
embarked on programme of building a new nation which is to be
transformed in a quest to achieve a nonracial and nonsexist society
united in its diversity. As a matter of fact, at the start of this
transformation agenda we started at a snail pace. However, today
there is no doubt that more have been achieved in relation to
building South Africa that upholds human dignity, social justice and
human rights.
24 NOVEMBER 2016
PAGE: 62 of 124
Today, we are leaving in a democratic country wherein our
Constitution remains a guiding tool in our action in delivering
basic services to our people. Democracy created opportunities and
access to government services and protected our rights. South Africa
today is better than it was before 1994. It is our believe that the
government of the ANC has done exceptionally well in delivering
basic services to the people of South Africa and this requires us
from time to time to assess the progress we have made thus far,
interrogate the shortcomings and further plan ahead with a view that
setbacks discovered does not find any expression in future. It is
against this background that as the Limpopo legislature, we
participated in the NCOP Provincial Week from 12 to 16 September
2016.
The ANC, in all its manifestos, made commitments to improve health
care in both urban and rural areas and further to improve and
promote education as the apex priority. As part of this commitment
the ANC-led government broadened access to adequate education and
training as well as health care. The Provincial Week helped us to
follow on these commitments that we have made to our people. As the
Limpopo legislature, we focused in the Sekhukhune District, a highly
rural and poor district. In the Sekhukhune District we visited a
number of health care facilities and schools. We met with the school
governing bodies, SGBs, school principals, teachers and other
stakeholders in education as well as in health. We must report that
all of them want a better education and a better health care system
24 NOVEMBER 2016
PAGE: 63 of 124
and they believe that the ANC is the only organisation that can
deliver all these to them.
Education being the pillar of transformation and development, has
not been fully accessible in some cases to some learners who have to
balance schooling and household responsibilities. In this case I am
referring to those learners who have lost their parents through
deaths and those whose parents are working at farms and these
children remain to be heads of their own families. There were some
teachers who were affected by nonpayment or late payments in some
schools that we visited in the district of Sekhukhune. However, the
Department of Education in the province has promised that the matter
is receiving attention and will be dealt with.
There are problems with our infrastructure at schools. In our
province most of the schools were storm damaged. The Limpopo
Department of Education is busy setting a programme of addressing
these issues of infrastructure.
Generally, last year the Sekhukhune District did not perform well in
the matric results. There were some schools that underperformed.
During this week the district has presented to us a turnaround
strategy that has been implemented to assist the underperforming
schools and we hope that this year the situation will be different.
24 NOVEMBER 2016
PAGE: 64 of 124
During this week we visited a number of circuit offices and amongst
them is the Moutse Central Circuit Office in Moutse. The facility in
which the circuit is situated is incomplete since the contractor
abandoned the project before completion. The decision to occupy this
facility was taken in an effort to safeguard the building although
it does not have electricity, water and enough furniture. This
situation negatively affects the functioning of the circuit.
In the district we were pleased to learn that the number of learners
benefiting from the National School Nutrition Programme in the
district is 224 272 for primary schools and 144 664 for secondary
schools. This is only in the district. In the province the number is
more than 900 000 while more than 5 660 learners benefit from the
scholar transport in the district. In all the circuits that we
visited there were no schools that complained about lack of
textbooks. So, this is the thing of the past in the province. We
want to appreciate the Department of Education in the province for
distributing textbooks on time this time around. This shows that the
government has been successful in its promise to deliver free and
quality education to our people. Education remains a key priority to
eradicate poverty. It remains as requirement for self growth, self
recognition and a tool of unlocking individual and collective growth
as well as development.
In health, tuberculosis, TB, is the most prevalent disease in the
district just like in the whole province. HIV and TB coinfection is
24 NOVEMBER 2016
PAGE: 65 of 124
also a challenge, but great achievement has been made with regard to
case findings and management. The prevalent rate in this case is
20,3%. The Department of Health is embarking on intensified case
finding through TB screening, testing and linking patients to care.
There are a number of findings that were made during this visit
related to health issues such as the shortages of staff and in some
cases shortages of some medical equipments.
The state of health in Limpopo is not dire and at the same time that
there are efforts to mitigate the status quo through improvising
levels. Many clinics visited in the district do not provide 24-hour
services due to shortages of staff as I indicated earlier. We
visited one hospital in the Ephraim Mogale Municipality, the Matlala
Hospital. This hospital encompasses two towns, namely, Groblersdal
and Marble Hall. The hospitals renders services to 67 villages that
are around it with seven clinics and all these clinics do not
provide the 24-hour services. This created problems for patients who
cannot travel long distance during the night to access the hospital.
The Department of Health in the province promised that there are
plans to increase 24 hours clinics to increase access at primary
health care levels. Even though this is still a challenge there is a
slow and low output of nurses required to assist in this regard.
The nursing college that is there in the district lacks human
resource because some lectures and tutors migrate to more paying
jobs therefore rendering nursing college unproductive and
24 NOVEMBER 2016
PAGE: 66 of 124
inefficient. Most challenges like the filling of funded vacancies
were identified. We agreed that they should be given priority by the
department. It was also recommended that in both departments,
Education and Health through the assistance of the provincial
Treasury, all funded vacant posts be filled with immediate effect.
We also made an undertaking as the provincial legislature that we
need to ensure that all recommendations made during this Provincial
Week are fully implemented through the Portfolio Committee on
Education and the Portfolio Committee on Health. We believe that we
will continue to provide services to our people. I thank you, Chair.
[Applause.]
Mme N P KONI: Ke a leboga Modulasetilo. Ere ke tseye tšhono eno go
dumedisa balwantwa Aforikaborwa ka bophara le diporofense ka go
latelana. (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)
[Ms N P KONI: Thank you, Chairperson; let me take this opportunity
to greet all the South African fighters at large and in the
respective provinces.]
South Africa is a country full of contradictions. South African
chief executive officers, CEOs, are some of the best paid in the
world while South African workers are the most underpaid in the
world. These contradictions are also based on skin, colour, gender
and age. However, the most appalling must be the differential access
to basic government services key among these being education and
24 NOVEMBER 2016
PAGE: 67 of 124
health between rural inhabitants and urban dwellers. Children in
Gatyana, in the Eastern Cape, are writing exams under trees as we
speak while children of the Oppenheimers are writing exams in air
conditioned classrooms. While the children of the miners who were
mowed down by the police at the instruction of Ramaphosa and the ANC
are now forced to read in candlelight rooms and studying in schools
that have no libraries and computer laboratories, the children of
Ramaphosa and the owners of Lonmin have all the basic needs
necessary for one to succeed in life.
Rural schools have no good quality and qualified teachers, no
libraries, no computers and no access to the internet. Is it any
wonder therefore that rural provinces continue to be at the bottom
of the ladder when it comes to the end of year? Is it any wonder
that universities continue to be flooded by white students who have
had a solid base from which to develop their academic qualities? Is
it any wonder therefore that jails continue to be flooded by young
and brilliant black people who were conditioned from birth to be
nothing but servants in a system of white supremacy that treats
black people as fodder for their insatiable desire to loot more?
While thousands of men and women who work deep in the mines of this
country contracting tuberculosis and other dread diseases struggle
every day to get access to good quality medication, the owners of
these mines have access to private rooms in private hospitals. The
sweat of black people in this country is for the benefit of white
24 NOVEMBER 2016
PAGE: 68 of 124
people and a tiny minority of black parasites represented in the
main by the Ramaphosas of this world. Black people in Port St Johns
have to die waiting for ambulances because these have not been
properly maintained and cannot access remote rural areas. Black
people in Pongola in KwaZulu-Natal, die daily of preventable
diseases because their clinics are not open 24 hours a day and when
they are open they have no medication, no doctors and poorly
qualified overworked nurses.
Is it any wonder therefore that young black women continue to die
while giving birth because of the poor quality of health provision
in rural South Africa? Is it any wonder that black men who have been
used and spitted out by the mines continue to go back to the rural
areas to die a slow and painful death? This is the condition that
our people have to face on a daily basis.
Black people have been dehumanised, battered and harassed every
single day in their quest for access to basic health services. 0ur
children are being turned to criminals on a daily basis because they
cannot access anything that can change their lives such as good
quality free education. The best thing apartheid leaders did for
their ideology of white supremacy was to give over power to the
African national criminals.
The ANC manages the state on behalf of white capitals. It denies
black people education so that there be a continuation of supply of
24 NOVEMBER 2016
PAGE: 69 of 124
cheap black labour. It denies black people good quality health care
so they can continue buying cheap toxic medication from white
pharmacies. The only hope for black people in this country is in the
EFF. It is only under the EFF that everyone in every corner in South
Africa will have access to clinics that are open 24 hours a day. It
is only under the EFF that there will be good quality free education
in this country. The first step towards getting those services is
the rejection of the ANC that is dying slowly, slowly and slowly. We
must start imagining a future without the ANC. It is a future so
bright and so glorious under the leadership of the EFF only.
Thank you very much, Chairperson, because I have one minute and 15
seconds.
While we were on our Provincial Week in the Northern Cape province I am happy you were also there – the Department of Health‘s head of
department, HOD, by the name Ms Elizabeth Botes continues to ill
treat workers within and around the Department of Health and she is
a woman. She should be leading by example. Perhaps she is a mother
also or a wife. It is not an allegation. That woman must lead by
example or step down because she is not there for her own pocket,
but she must lead by example. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon Chair, let me take this
opportunity also to be able to participate in this debate and will
focus unfortunately on only two areas or fortunately on access, and
24 NOVEMBER 2016
PAGE: 70 of 124
I have also add some notes on quality because we think it is a very
important factor that we should look at it as a sector. Just to put
on record as I said, we will highlight our progress in terms of
improving access but also challenges that we meet in access. Just to
put acontext we run a system with almost 23 710 public schools which
is equivalent to 92,8% and which really represents more than
12 million learners, which is a sign that South African still have a
huge confidence in the public education system. Because of these
only 7,2% of our schools are private schools which cater for only
4,5% of South African children and only employing 8 000 educators.
Therefore, as I said I just want to make a point that South Africans
still have a huge confidence in the public education system which
gives us hope. We also have, as I said, 81 districts in the nine
provinces, and the bulk of those districts are in the Western Cape.
However, even in terms of the funding to confirm that the ruling
party continues to prioritise education. As a country we spend 15,6%
of our budget in education which comes to more than R226 billion
annually. In terms of access we are guided by both international
instrument but by also our own commitment to making sure that
education is a priority and all our children have access to
education.
Thirty years ago the declaration on the rights of the development
set a firm commitment towards ensuring that all people, especially
the most vulnerable society are empowered to participate fully in
24 NOVEMBER 2016
PAGE: 71 of 124
all areas of social life and educating in particular. At the centre
of this commitment this is an understanding that the opportunity to
participate in formal education is a key enabler for meaningful
social participation. In South Africa the right to education is
guaranteed in section 29 of the Bill of Rights in our democratic
Constitution. Such local and international declarations do provide
an impetus for us to continue to commit to education for all.
In terms of access, which is a subject underway, we can say that
access to early education opportunity is having increased
substantially and thanks to the rollout of the Grade R programme
over the past 15 years. Numbers of learners enrolled in this
programme increased between 2001 and 2015 from 200 000 to more than
800 000. Thanks to the Grade R programme. In 2002, for instance, 40%
of four-five-year old were enrolled in some form of educational
programme, but currently more than 80% of four-five-year old are
attending Grade R institutions.
We know that insufficient early education stimulation is one factor
that contributes to the wide achievements gaps between children of
different socioeconomic status. Therefore, the expansion of Grade R
is a very important aspect for us of access to education which we
believe will contribute to the improved quality education and later
through the lives of our children. Therefore, participation in basic
education programmes for the seven-year to 15-year old did increase
24 NOVEMBER 2016
PAGE: 72 of 124
between 97% in 2002 to almost 99%. And again, in 2016 for children
between 14 and 18 we have seen an increase from 88% to 90%.
However, the challenge is because the question would be where is the
other 10% which comes to your point members of the DA. The majority
of children that we are missing to have a 100% enrolment are
children with special needs which we are working very hard with
provinces to ensure that they attend school, but the majority of
children not attending school who are able body are here in the
Western Cape and there are children in the farming communities.
Because all children in this country are our national assets, we are
also working with the province to improve access so that sometimes
when we boast about which province performs well we look at all
indicators. We look all indicators.
The participation rate as I said have been growing throughout the
years for both lower classes and senior classes. The disparities
between male and female have also improved, we have levelled out and
we are very proud that because of some of the policies that we have
put like the policies of allowing young mothers to come back to
school has help to stabilise the system. But also some of the poor
packages that we have put in place like the School Nutrition
Programme; we have evidence that they have helped us to retain
learners.
24 NOVEMBER 2016
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There are challenges which we have to acknowledge that the
completion rates are not where we want them to be. The number of
learners registered in the system is very different from the number
of learners that complete the system. We have improved from 40%
completion rates. We are just slight above 50% and we are putting
all sorts of programmes to make sure that we can assist learners and
tracking the reasons why our children are going out, and amongst
other programmes we have put in place to improve our access because
it is not access for us, it is retention which is a problem, your
dropout rates and repetition rates are the challenges in the sector
more than access itself.
Some of the programmes that we have put in place is a scholar
transport which we admit with colleagues that it is not adequate but
we are working very hard to make sure that we improve that as a
support for learning and teaching in schools where indeed we have
early identification and we are working hard to also see if we can
put remedial education in place. It is learner wellbeing around
bully, we have a report which indicates that bullying also is one of
the major factor that affect our learners, their health and their
wellbeing which is an area we have not been very good at to retain
also or to make sure also that we have through full grades which are
acceptable. We have launched a second chance programme again to make
sure that, Thandi, learners do not leave the system without a skill
or a qualification and have started from this year introducing what
we call a three-stream programme which has both technical,
24 NOVEMBER 2016
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vocational streams to make sure that there is also more
opportunities or choices that they have, but also learners who are
not coping with the academic curriculum are also able to get the
skill that enables them to survive.
As I said the 20% and the biggest issue for us is a dropout rates.
The retention rate ... and we see that the majority of learners who
drop out amongst boys is questions of youth criminality and all
sorts of youth delinquency and amongst girls unfortunately is the
gender role that poor communities continue to impose on girl
children, your family commitments, early marriages and teenage
pregnancy. And again we are working with the Department of Health to
make sure that indeed we can do that.
As I said there is biggest problems that is why I have put some
issues about quality because is one of ... I think the biggest
problem that we have to look at because access as a country we are
doing quite well. We are competing with the international countries,
your top performing countries. It is in the area of quality that we
have to pay attention because that is where as the country we are
not doing quite well and that is where we need to focus because we
can sing our praises the whole night but the point is if we do not
focus where the problem is, which is quality and efficiency, we will
not be doing quite well.
24 NOVEMBER 2016
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For instance, the report that I will be releasing next week it is
our international assessment report and again I want to warn people
that we will be releasing it and unfortunately because it is not our
report I am not able to share the information with you, but just to
say that in the report out of the 196 countries of the world 39
countries participated. We are proud that we participate in this
assessment so that we can gauge ourselves against countries and
identify areas that we need to improve in. I think we want to
encourage special public representatives to also pay attention so
that when we say education is societal issue, as a society we can
identify some of the issues that come from the report which are
beyond the education system. Things like community protest which
disrupt attendance, learner wellbeing, leaner safety, supported home
which continue to be some of the constraints that make our education
system lack behind.
Therefore, I really want to say again that when we look at the
results we will help also as a country to say as membership and we
want to say education is broader than what perhaps other people
define because that definition that she gave does not belong to us,
but I think she took it from wherever she is. But, I agree with her
that the definition is much broader and has to be looked broader.
However, what is also important and very enlightening, Mme
Sibhukwana, is that the indicators of education should not be
narrowed down because as a member from KwaZulu-Natal, KZN, said what
are our target? Our target is to improve the uptake of maths and
24 NOVEMBER 2016
PAGE: 76 of 124
science and KZN is leading. It is an indicator which should be
factored in when you look at the indicators.
Limpopo, for instance, is a leading province in the country because
we call it a Limpopo surprise, because it is a province that serves
the poor and the rural much more better than any other province ...
[Applause.] ... so which is the performance because what we did we
removed all the other factors or model C schools which put Gauteng
and Western Cape up and say of the poor and the rural which the
province is doing better? We were surprised that Limpopo is doing
much more better. We were surprised that, for instance, KwaZuluNatal also is doing much more better. Therefore, because as I said
we always appeal in education to say that because education is such
an important instrument, an important indicator, it will help at
some stage if all of us see all South Africa children, not children
in the Western Cape or any other corner, children of this country as
a national assets and therefore the needs of all the children being
important so that you come here and boast and say this does in
Western Cape, it is not very helpful and it is not taking us very
far.
For instance, here in Western Cape, we are working with the
province, the biggest challenge is your kids in your rural areas
where up to now 20 years down the line - unfortunately we can take
an equal blame between the ANC and the DA - still have no access to
24 NOVEMBER 2016
PAGE: 77 of 124
higher education. Schools run up to Grade 4, it is a problem ...
[Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: No, no,
she apologised. It is fine.
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chair, I had planned to give you
statistics around our appeals, there are teams but because we are
going to release a report next week what I will do I will make sure
that we ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon
Minister! Hon Mhlanga, you raised earlier about an issue that you
are doing now ... [Interjections.]
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Batho bano ga ba reetse, ba a
nthoga. [These people are not listening to me; they are insulting
me.]
If they can put something on their heads ba lwala [they‘re crazy].
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: No, can
you please just calm down.
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Lona, ke le bona ka go rogana gore
le tlile go lwana. Fa le rogana ke a itse gore go tlile go nna le
24 NOVEMBER 2016
PAGE: 78 of 124
tlhakatlhakano. [I know you; when you start with insults, there will
be chaos.]
Ms T J MOKWELE: [Inaudible.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon
Minister, Order! Order! Order, hon members! Please stop conversing.
Hon Mhlanga, I brought it to your attention that earlier on you
brought something to my attention and you are doing exactly that. Do
not do that.
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Ke a leboga bana ba me. [Thank you,
my children.]
Just quickly because I only have two minutes as I have said that
some of the things we have, as I have said, we really want our
country to focus on more important is your foundation phase and your
primary school education. That is where things start and end. If our
kids do not perform in primary school which is a predictor for
future learning then we are doomed and so it is very important that
also as the NCOP we are also able to say that these are the
indicators we are using for monitoring and therefore these are the
areas we also want you to judge us on.
24 NOVEMBER 2016
PAGE: 79 of 124
Therefore, at areas of reading, for instance, early reading we are
putting in programmes and supporting our learners in early reading.
We are putting also lots of ... [Interjections.]
... musa ukungxama kuba khange ndingxole ngexesha ubuthetha. [... do
not be in a hurry because I did not make noise when you were
delivering your speech.]
We are also intensifying our programmes around maths and science,
delivery and putting all sorts of interventions and again we will be
announcing them but as I said the other important intervention is to
also follow up and do a thorough study about all the barriers that
seem to come and haunt our system.
In conclusion, as a Department of Basic Education we remain
committed to rely in the right to access quality education for all
in South Africa and to make this a reality. We need to align the
commitment of all stakeholders so that we do not play boasting games
around education. This is a life line. So, we can really align even
our ambitions as a country in the education system around learning
as a key goal so that even those who aspire to lead us in future
know that here there are no politics, it is about people‘s lives.
You can go and maybe make stories at Marikana but here there is no
Marikana. It is about our children‘s lives. The South African
government will do its part but will need a dedicated effort from
all stakeholders from parents, civil society, learners, teachers ,
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partners and politicians, because after all education in South
Africa has been declared a societal issue. I really wish you all the
best as you continue to bring to attention the rights to education
and to a greater realisation of this right through your oversight
work but also holding us accountable. Thank you very much, Chair,
for inviting us. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: It has been brought to my
attention that today is a very special day for one of our members.
It‘s hon Charl de Beer‘s birthday today, so happy birthday.
[Applause.]
Ms L BOTHA (Western Cape): The Provincial Week of 12 to 16 September
2016 saw members of this House as well as from the Western Cape
Provincial Parliament embark on a visit to a number of education and
health visits as part of our oversight duties.
Premised on parliament‘s commitment to use 2016 to follow up on
commitments made to people, the theme for this particular visit was
―Following up on our commitments to make access to education and
health care work for all.‖
This is particularly important because it means that our mandate
given to us as public representatives, we now have the opportunity
to go out and give feedback to the people, but also listen to their
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concerns, take them back to Parliament with the intention to resolve
issues.
Chairperson, universal access to quality education is not a
privilege; it is a basic human right, enshrined in our glorious
Constitution. It is the cornerstone of our society and young
democracy and it is crucial to build the knowledge and skills of our
young people, and also in nurturing the values and beliefs of our
diverse nation. It is thus pivotal to ensure that education is
accessible to all.
With a budget of just over R19 billion for the 2015/16 year, the
Western Cape Education Department is responsible for publics
schooling in the province and currently has 2 147 schools. The
average educator learner ratio is 1:37 and 1:33 for primary and
secondary schools respectively. This ratio is set to increase with
the increasing number of learners moving into the province from
other provinces around the country.
It is important to note that 98,5% of schools in the Western Cape
are either No Fee Schools or have benefitted from fee compensation.
The department has also noted that many schools in fee paying areas
are just as poor as schools in quintiles one to three, and as a
result has added 216 schools to the No Fee Schools list. This not
only highlights the Western Cape Education Department‘s commitment
to assisting our poorer schools, but also the department‘s
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commitment to assisting our Fee Paying Schools to accommodate poorer
learners.
Chairperson, there is some uneasiness regarding the quintile system
but we are confident that the quintile system will be reviewed and
with continued discussions a positive outcome will be the result.
Furthermore, a growing concern is the learner teacher ration which
in many parts indicates that our schools are overcrowded and thus
placing a strain on schools resources and staff.
However, Chairperson, one must note that at the beginning of every
there are many new learners from other provinces enrolling at
schools in the Western Cape. This presents numerous challenges for
officials and schools to ensure that these learners are accommodated
and have the necessary resources they need on their first day of
school. More classrooms are required in many schools as the movement
of learners continues. This was evident, for example, in the Eden
School for Learners with special needs. [Interjection.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: On what point are you rising,
hon member?
Ms T J MOKWELE: Chair, I just want to check where is the Duty Whip
because according to the list, hon Mampuru is supposed to be in the
House as a Duty Whip but she‘s not here?
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The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, that‘s not a point of order
hon members. Can we continue with the debate?
Ms L BOTHA (Western Cape): The school also had challenges regarding
incorrect referral of learners.
Time will not allow me to get into all the aspects of the visit in
as far as education is concerned but I want to say that we have see
the problems facing our schools, and although great strides have
been made to ensure our schools are accessible for all learners in
the province, more is required of us. Classrooms need to be built,
learner transport needs to be accessible for more learners, and
equipment and infrastructure needs to be upgraded.
Education is the cornerstone of every society and is the most
important investment we can make on our children. We need to ensure
that children of school going age receive quality education that
will open opportunities in the future and ensure that we build a
functioning society.
Chairperson, pertaining to health, quality healthcare under section
27 of this wonderful Constitution, access to health care is a
constitutionally recognised right.
Provincial Strategic Goal 3 of the Western Cape Provincial Strategic
Goals commits the Western Cape Government to increasing safety,
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wellness and tackling social ills. Through working together with the
communities and other departments including Department of Community
Safety; Social Services; Culture, Arts and Sport. I am confident
that the people of the Western Cape will continue to get improved
services from this department.
The Western Cape Department of Health has a mandate to deliver a
comprehensive package of quality health services to people of the
Western Cape. A range of services that they deliver include
emergency services, fees and tariffs, maternal and women‘s health,
forensic pathology service, home-based care, baby and child
services, and rehabilitation.
One of the biggest objectives of the Department of Health is to
continue providing quality healthcare and making it accessible to
all people living in the province. Private medical healthcare is
quite expensive – as we all know – and the majority of people in the
province rely on the services of the Westerns Cape Health
Department.
The 2015/16 Annual report indicates that the provincial healthcare
system has achieved: 82,3% Tuberculosis, TB, cure rate; 203 565
patients on Anti-Retroviral Therapy (ART); Mother-to-child HIV
transmission rate of 1%; 14 150 180 Primary Healthcare ...
[Interjection.]
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, why are you
standing?
Ms T J MOKWELE: Ke kopa gore sebui se ngangisane, se seke sa re
neela pegelo; re na le yona. [Can the speaker debate, and not give
us a report?]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, please take
your seat. Continue hon member!
Ms L BOTHA (Western Cape): Clearly the people of this province are
receiving excellent services but we are in no way ignorant of the
challenges that face our health system.
During the oversight visit, a number of challenges were highlighted
and among them are: alcohol related harms were identified as a major
social deterrent within the province especially in the focus area of
our visit; a need to strengthen specialised services such as
emergency services; challenges with mobile clinics, more are
required to service the farm areas; distance travelled by people to
and from facilities are very long at times, highlighting a need for
more facilities closer to the people.
We are confident that the recommendations given will be implemented
in order to remedy the situation and ensure that all health
facilities in the province are capacitated to the required standard.
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Healthcare 2030 is the Western Cape‘s answer to this and a powerful
vision for the future of healthcare in the province. However, the
shrinking fiscal envelope will definitely hamper much of the
progress and implementation of programmes the department has
planned. What we can assure the people of the Western Cape is that
even with these challenges, the commitment and drive to continue
providing quality healthcare to them will not be diminished in
anyway.
Also critical to achieving our goals is making quality healthcare
affordable for all. There is a need to reform the medical aid
industry in the country. Recently the DA launched its alternative to
the National Health Insurance Act, popularly known as NHI. Without
going into much detail, the proposed alternative aims to provide
quality healthcare to all at a cost that we as a country can easily
afford and more importantly benefit our people. The plan can be
implemented using our own current health budget.
In conclusion, I want to thank the important role that the dedicated
staff of both the Western Cape Education Department and Department
of Health continue to fulfil in ensuring that we have a healthy and
a well-educated society. The pressure and environment they work in
can be quite unfavourable at times but day-in they go out with one
task at hand, deliver service to all in the Western Cape.
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The contributions made by the teachers and support staff in schools,
nurses, social workers and everyone else that contributes to making
our health system function is truly noticeable and appreciated. The
front-line staff in the Boland area on this Provincial Week visit
has once again demonstrated their commitment, diligence and
compassion in the execution of their duties and we commend them for
this. I thank you, Chairperson.
Ms T MOTARA: Hon House Chairperson of the NCOP, Deputy Chairperson
of the NCOP, Minister of Basic Education, hon members, special
delegates, our honoured guests, ladies and gentlemen, today‘s debate
takes place a day before the beginning of global campaign on 16 Days
of Activism of No Violence against Women and Children.
Allow me, to pay a laudable voice of support to all the activists
who continue to carry the torch of resilience in our national quest
to wage a fearless battle against violence and abuse of women and
children in our society, as we say, ―Count me in‖. The provincial
week was established in line with the provision of the Constitution
which obligates the NCOP to ensure that provincial interests are
taken into account in the national sphere of government. Therefore,
it also serves as a very important mechanism for the NCOP to work
with legislatures, municipalities, organised local governments and
government departments and entities so that we work together to
confront challenges facing the delivery of services to our people.
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I must say from the onset that since its inception, the provincial
week has proved to be a success in giving provincial delegates to
the NCOP as a whole and information about the needs of the people in
the provinces. It has enabled the NCOP to contribute to effective
government by ensuring that provincial and local concerns are
recognised in national policy-making and that provincial, local, and
national governments work together effectively and efficiently in
order to ensure effective delivery of services to our people.
The theme for the provincial week this year was, ―Working together
to make access to education and health care for all work.‖ The theme
gave as an opportunity to follow up on the progress that the Gauteng
province is making in creating access to education and health care
work for all our people, especially the downtrodden.
As the Gauteng delegation, we were indeed proud of the enormous
progress that the province of Gauteng is making in delivering
quality health care to our people. We were informed that the life
expectancy in Gauteng has been on the rise since 2002. Gauteng has
the second highest life expectancy in the country at 61,3 years for
males and 65,8 years for females and both of these figures are
currently above the national average.
The Gauteng Department of Health conducts quality of life surveys
through specific questions related to health every two years. The
findings of the survey conducted in 2015 revealed that around 60% of
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people in Gauteng access health care services through public
facilities and a further 9% utilise both private and public
facilities. About 73% of respondents who participated in the survey
indicated that they are satisfied with the services provided at
health care facilities in the province.
The Gauteng province is also taking a lead in ensuring that people
with medical insurance use public health care facilities. About 34%
of the people of Gauteng who have medical insurance are using public
health care facilities. In many instances, many of them have
indicated that public health care facilities in the province provide
the best treatment available. We were informed that diabetes and
hypertension remain the most prevalent health problems in the
province at 15% and 11% respectively. We are indeed proud that the
province is working tirelessly to put in place programmes to educate
our people about the dangers of diabetes and hypertension.
The total number of the ideal clinics in the province has risen to a
total of 365 and 74 of them are facilities with ideal clinic status.
In addition, the department is targeting 165 facilities to have
ideal clinic status in the 2016-17 financial year. The MEC for
Health, hon Mahlangu, informed us that the department is rolling out
a system called electronic bed management system, eBMS, that will
assist in terms of checking the number of beds available at the
hospital and the number of beds that are occupied. Moreover,
Identity Verification System will be rolled out in seven hospitals
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in 2017 and further to the remaining hospitals in the 2017-18
financial year.
We visited a number of health sites where we witness enormous
efforts and progress in ensuring that the Gauteng province expands
access to quality health care to our people. The lack of doctors is
a national challenge that is also facing the province. Of course,
not all our findings revealed a perfect picture and that was to be
expected. It is in the course of work that human errors will occur.
Our health care professionals work in highly demanding conditions
and we commend them for high levels of commitment and integrity and
efforts to serve their clients well. Our report to the legislature
and select committees for continued oversight on both specific
issues and generic findings will endeavour to create conditions as
envisioned in the NDP.
The MEC for Education, the hon Lesufi, indicated that priorities for
education in the province are driven by, amongst others, the NDP as
well as the 10 non-negotiable priorities of the province. We have
seen for ourselves in the various sites that we visited that the
focus of the province is on quality of education, e-learning and
information and communications technology, ICT, in education,
reorganisation of schools, Grade R, inclusive education, skills
development, school infrastructure and social cohesion.
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Regarding quality education, the focus, amongst others, is on
improving the quality of passes in Grade 12 through the
implementation of the Secondary School Improvement Programme,
teacher development, the provision of Learner Teacher Support
Material, teaching through e-learning and district support.
The e-learning strategy and ICT roll-out includes the connectivity,
devices, e-learning content, teacher training and development on
ICT, amongst others. In addition, the plan is also to ensure
universalisation of Grade R in 2019, reorganise schools in order for
learners to be provided with relevant education in a nonracial
education environment. This is done through twinning of schools. As
an immediate intervention to the reality of lack of space to build
new schools or extend existing schools, the MEC introduced this
twinning of schools.
This intervention intended to pair what is known as former model C
schools with township schools. For in the words of our MEC he said
that no child must be disadvantaged just because of where they
reside or the colour of their skin and those that have must share
with the have nots. But no sooner has this intervention been
introduced than the MEC and the department were faced with adequate
resistance and worse - justified with the most baseless arguments
which reminded us of the exclusionary and separatist policies of
apartheid. So much has been done for freedom, fairness and
opportunity.
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With regard to school infrastructure, the aim is to replace schools
that are made of mud, asbestos, wood and metal structures with brick
and mortar structures - and provide schools with electrical
connectivity, water and sanitation facilities, and build new schools
and incrementally build ordinary and Grade R classrooms to reduce
backlogs. The Department of Basic Education intends to open a new
school every month and all 20 asbestos schools in the province will
be eradicated by the end of in the 2016-17 financial year. The plan
is to ensure that by the end of the 2017-18 financial year, there
will be no asbestos schools in the province.
While ideal infrastructure and tools of trade are but part of what
will ensure better education of our learners, the learning
environment as a whole must seek to create a wholly patriotic South
African who has passed through a rigorous system that has ensured
their full potential as either been unlocked or can be reached in
later years.
It is regrettable that there are increasing incidents of religious
intolerances while there is open racism in our schools in Gauteng.
What is even more disturbing is that these cases have been found to
be taking place in as early as preprimary school levels. Our
educators have a responsibility to mould these young minds at heart
into South Africans of the future. How will this be achieved if when
- at an early age, racism is practised as a norm and looked upon as
acceptable and even justifiable? We do commend the swift action by
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the MEC in trying his best to address these issues as soon they rear
their ugly head.
In conclusion, as the delegation of Gauteng, we want to convey our
profound appreciation to the Premier of Gauteng, the various MECs,
especially the MEC for Health and the MEC for Education and members
of the legislature for the manner in which they continue to embrace
the provincial week.
We are indeed proud that Gauteng remains committed to do everything
necessary to ensure that our people receive quality services. We
welcome the commitment to ensure that some of the concerns that we
raised during the provincial week are followed up and addressed. I
thank you.
Mr C HATTINGH: Hon Chair, firstly perhaps just a brief response to
hon Nyambi who called on the Minister to strengthen monitoring and
evaluation. That is very interesting because the last reports that
we have seen from Nedo doing exactly this was in 2012 and 2013
whilst a 2014 Nedo report is still being sanitised. Referring to hon
Peter from the Eastern Cape, it is very interesting that he comes
here and boasts about Asidi. The Eastern Cape was the province that
forfeited the most money back to Treasury and it was redistributed
to other provinces, however, he comes here and blames lack of
capacity. Now, let us go to the lack of capacity problem, the root
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of the problem in the Eastern Cape and that is the capture of
education by Sadtu, a very delicate subject.
Sadtu has captured education in the Eastern Cape and by doing so
they are stealing the future and education of our children. That is
why children are fleeing from the Eastern Cape because education is
captured by Sadtu. [Interjections.] – Not to the North West, I hope
they come there.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): You are covered, hon
Hattingh, do not listen to him.
Mr C HATTINGH: On 14 December the Minister of Basic Education
publicly reported on the progress made in delivering school
infrastructure in terms of regulations relating to the minimum
uniform norms and standards for public schools. According to her
statement, 100% of North West schools have water, 100% have
sanitation, 100% have appropriate infrastructure and only four
schools are without electricity. Perhaps the Minister regards rain
water from the Jojo tank as sufficient water. If we look at what is
inside that water you realise that it is not clean potable water
that we want to give to our children.
I want to ask my colleagues who were part of the oversight visit to
Morokweng, Ganyesa and to Tosca: Is this the truth, the whole truth
and nothing but the truth? It is not. It is certainly not. So, the
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Minister comes here and tells us that we must focus where the
problems are. But Minister, how can you focus where the problems are
if you are in a state of denial? Children are without sanitation,
there are pits, open toilets built for a few children 20 years ago
are overflowing and without doors and yet you say that is
sanitation; there is no problem with sanitation in the North West
province.
Hon Minister, you must focus on where the problems are, I appeal to
the Minister: Focus Minister, please focus and do not be in denial.
Perhaps the Minister should have been invited to have a ...
[Inaudible.] [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order, hon Hattingh, please
address the Minister through the Chair.
Mr C HATTINGH: What I have said through the Chair. Thank you, I will
do that. Perhaps the Minister should have been invited to accompany
the select committee into the rural areas on the oversight visit and
I would like, because clearly the Minister is either mislead or
something else, but the Minister should come with us. The Minister
should go with this committee to the rural areas in the North West
province. The reality is that the situation our schools are in is a
far cry from the idealistic picture portrayed by the Minister,
basking in the delivery at the expense of media event where all the
lights are on her. There is no ... [Interjections.]
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Hatting, please take
your seat. Hon Mokgosi.
Ms N P KONI: Koni.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Are you no longer Hon
Mokgosi?
Ms N P KONI: Koni.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Koni? OH! Hon Koni,
okay.
Ms N P KONI: [Laughter].
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): My apology, mme.
Moh N P KONI: Ke kopa gore o nkopele mo go rre Hattingh gore a dige
lentswe. O buela kwa godimo le gone Ntlo ga e a tlala gompieno ka
gonne maloko a ANC ga a yo. Fa a buela kwa godimo ga re kgone go mo
utlwa sentle. Ke kopo fela ya gore a dige lentswe. (Translation of
Setswana paragraph follows.)
[Ms N P KONI: Would you please ask Mr Hattingh, on my behalf, to
lower his voice? He is talking too loudly, and the House is not
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really all that full since members of the ANC are not present. It
becomes difficult to hear him when he is this loud.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Koni, please take you
seat. Hon Hattingh, continue to debate.
Mr C HATTINGH: Thank you hon Chair, there are so many quotes that I
can give you from the provincial oversight week report: Ceiling
damage may be a danger to children, there are no classrooms. The
province said that dilipitated classroom with broken windows should
be taken down. There is no kitchen to prepare food for the NSNP
programme. There are no storage facilities for it. There is
inadequate pit toilets installed 20 years ago and without doors.
There are no sporting facilities and in fact what we have in the
North West province and in rural areas is really a scandal and the
Minister comes in and says that there are no problems in the North
West province. There are four schools without electricity.
Hon Chair, in general it was found that even where there are
infrastructure services in existence, there is no maintenance or ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Hattingh, your time has
expired.
Mr C HATTINGH: I am concluding.
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Hattingh, your time has
expired.
Mr C HATTINGH: I welcome the Minister to come with us.
Mr L B GAEHLER: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Chairperson of
the NCOP, hon members, the UDM is shocked at the Eastern Cape
Department of Education by its own admission that it has built a
total of three out of a planned 24 schools in the 2015-16 financial
year. In terms of the Estimates of Provincial revenue and
Expenditure Report, there are currently only three additional
schools under construction as of 2016.
There were planned for schools to have water, sanitation and
electricity, yet as of August 2016, there is no information on the
actual number of schools provided with this basic necessities.
[Interjections.]
Mr W F FABER: Chairperson, I am quite worried at the decorum of this
House at the moment. It seems like the majority party, I do not know
if they lost the aeroplane or are looking for the aeroplane but
there is no one here. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Faber, please take your
seat, I want to address you. This House has a Chief Whip who is
taking care of it. Continue hon Gaehler.
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Mr L B GAEHLER: Given the under-performance in school construction,
which resulted in the Eastern Cape department losing to the national
fiscus, not less than R500 million due to under expenditure. Schools
infrastructure is a national crisis and these visits have once again
confirmed this fact. It runs deep into our system of basic
education. The latest National Education Infrastructure Management
System data released ... [Interjections.] ... - Chairperson, please
protect me ...
... uyangxola lo mntu apha. [... this person is making noise here.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Hattingh, hon Prins, hon
Faber and hon Nthebe, please respect the member who is on the
podium.
Mr L B GAEHLER: ... in June 2016 reports that 9 203 schools still
have pit toilets, 3 492 have no or unreliable electricity, and 175
have no or unreliable water supply. The Eastern Cape Department of
Education must: Attract and maintain infrastructure employees;
ensure that the implementing agencies are doing their work without
maladministration, and; integrate the school infrastructure
programme with the school rationalisation programme. Above all, the
department must disseminate regular progress reports to the public,
and share the annual implementation reports and plans. This is
important for the ongoing monitoring of school infrastructure
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delivery to ensure that the safety of learners, and the educators is
no longer compromised.
Chairperson, like in basic education, involving communities in
primary public health, provides a basis for increased selfconfidence and self-reliance of individuals and the community as a
whole. Amongst the disadvantaged and the underserved communities,
participation gives practical force to the idea of health as a human
rights and social justice.
Chairperson, what is worse in rural clinics is that some of them are
closed over weekends and this disadvantages rural communities. If
community members are involved in the planning, development and
implementation of health services, then services are more likely to
address real needs and less likely to be misused. In this regard,
the UDM suggest that we move towards a commitment to community
participation as an intrinsic part of primary public healthcare and
district development. A commitment to community participation
remains a cornerstone of primary public healthcare and would
certainly results to proper infrastructure delivery.
Lastly, hon Minister, in our visit, some of the teachers complained
about rural allowance. It is a pity that some teachers receive it
whilst some do not receive it. We urge you to attend to that problem
because it is unfair that some teachers receive this allowance and
some do not. I thank you.
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Mr V V Z WINDVOEL: Hon House Chairperson, hon Chairperson of the
NCOP, the Minister of the Department of Basic Education, Madam
Motshekga, hon members, permanent delegates and special delegates.
It is a pleasure to participate in this debate ably opened by the
hon House Chairperson Nyambi as we reflect on the work which we did
between 12 and 16 September 2016. I must indicate upfront that in
Mpumalanga the Provincial Week was integrated with our programme of
taking the Legislature to the people. That had a bonus and an
advantage that we were working together with our permanent delegates
including Members of the Executive Council and also our hon
councillors within the Municipality of Lekwa, which is part of the
Gert Sibande District Municipality.
While we also concentrated on the themes which were highlighted by
the NCOP, health and education, but we were broadly working under
the theme of the Legislature intensifying oversight for proactive
and service orientated governance advancing people‘s power.
We must indicate that while we were mainly based at Sakhile Stadium,
we had oversights which were extending to even the farming
communities around Standerton and Morgenzon and we also had
stakeholder forums which focused on matters dealing with the youth
where issues of drugs, youth involvement in sports and also looking
at measures to create jobs were deliberated upon.
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The other stakeholder forum looked at how we can develop the economy
of Lekwa Municipality, in particular, the Local Economic
Development, LED, of that municipality that focused on business
people, both emerging and also the established business people. The
last stakeholder forum concentrated on our elderly and people living
with disabilities where we were looking around issues of how we can
ensure that their livelihood is being taken care in a manner which
is very much dignified and bestowing the respect which they deserve.
I must indicate Presiding Officer that Lekwa Municipality is located
within the Gert Sibande District and is one of the densely populated
areas in Mpumalanga province which is hard hit by rapid urban
population growth and demand for services. A large chunk of urban
population within Lekwa Municipality is unemployed. Most of those
unemployed people largely involve the youth. We must also indicate
that as we did our oversight visits, we visited schools and in most
schools there are good stories to tell and in others there not so
good stories to tell. We must indicate that because there was
presence of the department, in some of the schools like Isifiso
Sethu Primary Schools where there were challenges of overcrowding,
the department has committed and also delivered nine mobile
classrooms in order to relieve that particular challenge in the
school we were visiting. We take this as one of the impact which the
Provincial Week had in terms of our province of Mpumalanga.
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In the area of Morgenzon, which is a small town, a bit of a distance
from Standerton, we got that there was a clinic which only operated
for five days per week and not working during the weekends. As we
know, illnesses do not have any day of the week. There was a
commitment from the Department of Health that is will be opened for
seven days per week. I think that is one of the positive impacts of
our Provincial Week.
We also came across situations where libraries were not well
resourced and I must indicate that all four libraries in Standerton
were still located in terms of the apartheid planning - library for
the former coloured areas, a library for the former black people in
the township and a library for the former Indians. There has been an
agreement with the Department of Culture, Sports and Recreation that
a bigger ideal library will be established for all the people of
Lekwa Municipality.
I will not go in detail because our report is there and well
written, people who want to share it are welcome. But, I will be
failing in my duty if I don‘t also make certain observations
especially what was raised by the hon Mpambo-Sibhukwana who is
currently representing Western Cape but I think originally she is
from the Eastern Cape. We are here equally as South Africans and we
should not undermine each other. Chapter 3 of the Constitution
enjoins us to work co-operatively rather than to compete and even
not assist each other. If we view ourselves patriotically as South
24 NOVEMBER 2016
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Africans, we can‘t laugh at other provinces which cannot perform
like others. It‘s a fact that Eastern Cape inherited two Bantustans,
which is Ciskei and Transkei and I believe the other member who was
debating here on behalf of the UDM, his leader was one of the
leaders of those Bantustans. [Interjections.] The point I want to
make is that Western Cape does not suffer the legacy and backlog of
provinces which inherited Bantustan homeland governments. We must
compare apples with apples.
As I conclude, I hope that the children of Eastern Cape, innocent as
they are, if they enjoy their right of freedom of movement to go to
any part of the country, including Western Cape, they will not be
called refugees in the country of their birth. I come from
Mpumalanga and it is neighbouring Mozambique and Swaziland. When
there were wars and Portuguese people were crossing over to
Mpumalanga, the white government ruling by that time was welcoming
the Portuguese people, giving them businesses and that is the reason
that they are running restaurants in Mpumalanga now. If we welcome
our own people after they have been pushed by the effects and legacy
of the civil war of Mozambique National Resistance, Renamo,
sponsored by the apartheid regime, we welcome them with open hands
and we don‘t say they are refugees because we take them as Africans.
I think we must let that African spirit prevail amongst us
regardless of the parties we belong to. Thank you very much.
[Applause.]
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Ms L L ZWANE: Chairperson, hon Members of the august House, let me
start of by reminding the public and hon members that the ANC has
been a leader of society for the past 104 years, and that has been
the case because the ANC is genuine in its commitment to improve the
socioeconomic status of the people of South Africa. The ANC is
genuine in its commitment to fight the burden of disease in order to
increase the life span of the people of South Africa. The ANC, among
other things, is also genuine in ensuring the provision of quality
education in South Africa. That is why it is important for us to
keep the connection with the people that we are serving, hence the
importance of the Provincial Week, the importance of Taking
Parliament to the People in order to maintain the connection with
the people.
There is nothing that pleases people more than seeing their public
representatives, coming to address them, listen to their needs and
take care of their requirements. There is nothing more fulfilling to
the people like seeing that the government of South Africa has got a
plan, the National Development Plan, NDP, to ensure that there is a
planned and systematic service delivery. There is nothing that
pleases people than the warmth they feel when we go to them. If
Mohammed cannot go to the mountain then the mountain must go to
Mohammed. So, we go to the people to listen to them with a view to
ensuring that we assist them.
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One of the reasons why people believe in the ANC is that the
movement has mastered the terrain of the electoral contest, the ANC
has been able to utilise political powers to advance the objectives
of the National Democratic Revolution, NDR, and the ANC wields the
instruments of the state in line with the ideals as reflected in the
Constitution of the country. The ANC has led this country and it
understands the connection between political and socioeconomic
challenges of this country. That is why we appreciate the move by
the ANC-led government to put a proposal for a minimum wage of
R3 500. People are going to live better now than they lived
yesterday because of the leadership of the ANC.
Now, I just want to respond to my colleagues here who were passing
some funny remarks about the leadership of the ANC. One, hon Khawula
- it is a pity that he is gone - says that in Vulekani Special
School where we visited, there was abuse of learners. I just wanted
to remind him that soon after we left, the teacher who was involved
in the abuse of learners in that school has since been suspended.
Two, he says that St Margaret Hospital had been neglected and the
MEC promised that it was going to be rebuilt. I want to assure him
that the case of that hospital is being taken up. The Minister of
Health has been to that hospital just after the NCOP had visited it
during the Provincial Week. So, that matter is being attended to.
The EFF member, Koni, comes here ... [Interjections.]
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Okay, order, hon members.
Order! Order, hon Motara. Hon Zwane, please take your seat.
[Interjections.] Hon Koni, why are you on your feet?
Ms N P KONI: Chair, on a point of order: I request the hon member on
the podium to address me as the hon member. I am an hon Member of
this House, please.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Okay, your order has been
sustained, hon Koni. Hon Zwane, she is hon member Koni
Ms L L ZWANE: Chairperson, when the EFF members address this House,
they refer to our President as Zuma, they refer to the Deputy
President as Cyril or Ramaphosa but they expect me to address them
as hon members.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order! Order!
Ms L L ZWANE: Kwehla ngamphimbo munye ngesizulu. [The same should
apply.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Zwane!
Ms L L ZWANE: I am not going to do that. They must learn to respect
other people before they can be respected.
24 NOVEMBER 2016
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Zwane! Hon member Zwane,
please take your seat. Hon Mokwele ...
... ke ka lebaka la eng o eme ka maoto, mma? [... why are you
standing up, Madam?]
Ms T J MOKWELE: Modulasetilo, ke kopa gore leloko le le fetsang go
bua le tlogele go re leka ... [Tsenoganong.] [Chairperson, I am
pleading with the member who just spoke now to stop testing us ...
[Interjections.]]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, you know very
well you cannot debate from the floor.
Ms T J MOKWELE: Re tla mo lwantsha re lebane le ene mo matlhong. Fa
e le gore ga a re bitse maloko a a tlotlegang re tla mo naya se a se
batlang. [We will deal with her directly. If she does not call us
hon members, we will give her what she is asking for.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, we have
rectified that one. Please take your seat.
Ms T J MOKWELE: Re kopa gore o laele mme yo gore a re bitse
batlotlegi. Fano re badirammogo e bile re a lekana. [We are pleading
with you to instruct this member to address us as hon members. We
are colleagues and equal.]
24 NOVEMBER 2016
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We are equal. If you respect us we will give you respect, but if you
do not want we will also not give you any respect. If she does not
want us to respect her, we will do so. We have all the capacity to
do that.
Ms T J MOKWELE::Re a dumela gore JZ ke motho wa bone. [We agree that
JZ is their member.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Take your seat, hon Mokwele.
Hon Mokwele, please take your seat. Take your seat, take you seat
hon Mokwele. Hon Mokwele please ... hon Mokwele! Hon Mokwele! Hon
Mokwele, please do not be out of order. You have heard us asking the
hon Zwane to address hon Koni as hon member. Please allow the House
to continue. Continue, Hon Zwane.
Nk L L ZWANE: Kwehla ngamphimbo munye, Sihlalo, okwenza kwabanye
kuyenziwa nakuwena. Kwehla ngamphimbo munye. Ukuze uhlonishwe
kufuneka uqale uhloniphe abanye abantu. (Translation of isiZulu
paragraph follows.)
[Ms L L ZWANE: The same should apply, Chair; how you treat others is
how you will be treated. The same should apply. In order for you to
be respected, you must first show respect to others.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Zwane, the hon member is
still standing on her feet. Hon Mokwele, why are you standing?
24 NOVEMBER 2016
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Moh T J MOKWELE: Modulasetilo, ke kopa selo se le sengwe fela. Ke
kopa gore mme yo a bitse moh Koni ka mokgwa kgotsa ka molao wa Ntlo
eno. Pele a tswelela go bua ka SeZulu sa gagwe, kana le rona re tla
bua ka Setswana sa rona. Fa a rogakana ka SeZulu, rona re tla fetola
ka Setswana sa rona. Jaanong, a dire se se tshwanetseng jaaka molao
wa Ntlo eno o kaya. Pele a tswelela ka puo ya gagwe, ke kopa gore a
bitse moh Koni ka mokgwa o o tshwanetseng. (Translation of Setswana
paragraph follows.)
[Ms T J MOKWELE: Chairperson, could the lady address hon Koni as per
the House Rules before she continues in isiZulu? We could also speak
Setswana. If she insults us in isiZulu, we will respond in Setswana.
She must do as the Rules of this House require.]
MODULASETULO WA NGWAKO (Moh M C Dikgale): Mohl Mokwele, re a leboga,
mma. Ke nagana gore taba yeo re feditše ka yona. Re mo kgopetše gore
a se ke a bitša mohl Koni a re ―Koni‖. O swanetše a re ―mohl Koni.‖
O re theeleditše; re feditše ka taba yeo. A ka se sa e bušeletša. Ge
a ka e bušeletša, o tla be a re hlohla. [Tšhwahlelo.] (Translation
of Sepedi paragraph follows.)
[The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M C Dikgale): Thank you Madam hon
Mokwele. I think that we have finalised this matter. We have asked
her not to just address hon Koni as ‗Koni; she is to be addressed
appropriately as ‗hon Koni‘. She heard us clearly. She should not
24 NOVEMBER 2016
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repeat it. If she repeats it she will be trying us.
[Interjections.]]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, you cannot do
that. Hon Mokwele! Hon Mokwele, you cannot do that. No, hon Mokwele
...
...O kgopela go hlompša feela wena tše o di dirago ga o
ntlhomphe.[Tšhwahlelo.] Ntheeletše re ... [Tšhwahlelo.] [...
requests to be given respect, but what you are doing is
disrespectful. [Interjections.] Listen ...] [Interjections.]]
Hon Koni, I did not give you a chance to speak. [Interjections.] I
did not allow you. The hon member stood before you. Take your seat.
Mr D L XIMBI: Chairperson, I have a point of order: We are in
Parliament and not in a shebeen. I think you have to rule. Use your
rules. It is unfair ...
... ukugezelwa kwiNdlu ehlonipheke kangaka. Imbeko ayinguwo umbeko,
ayizange ibekho iPalamente enje ngale, sigezelwe ngabantwana
abancinci kangaka! [...to be disrespected in an honourable House
like this!
Respect must remain respect, there is no Parliament like
this one, young children to disrespect us like this!]
No, it is unfair. It is unfair Chair. You have to rule.
24 NOVEMBER 2016
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Okay, hon Ximbi, you are
repeating what we were saying. Hon Koni, now it is your chance. Hon
Mokwele, take a seat.
Moh N P KONI: Modulasetilo ... [Chairperson ...]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Are you rising on a point of
order?
Moh N P KONI: Motl Modulasetilo, ke kopa gore o dirisane le rona ka
mokgwa o o tshwanang. Gantsi fa o le Modulasetilo, ga o dirisane le
maloko ka mokgwa o o tshwanang. Seno ga se ka lonyatso mma, ke bua
nnete. Kopo ya me ke gore, fela jaaka ka nako e ke sa bueng sentle
ka ga rre Zuma o bo o laela gore ke bitse rre Zuma Moporesidente, ke
bo ke go obamela, dira fela jalo le ka mme yo o ntseng a bua.
O fetsa go ikana gore a ka se mpitse motlotlegi. Ke kopa gore mme yo
a simolole ka go baakanya lebaka la go mpitsa motl Koni pele a
tswelela ka ngangisano ya gagwe. Ke ne ke kopa seno, ke gore pele ga
ke bua ke fa rre Ximbi a bua. Le rre Ximbi o fetsa go re bitsa bana.
Ke kopa gore rre Ximbi a gogele morago lefoko la gore ga a batle go
tlwaelwa ke bana. O bua ka lefelo la bojalwa gonne o itirile moruti
a ntse a tagwa. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)
[Ms N P KONI: Hon Chairperson, please be consistent. Most of the
time when you are chairing in this House, you are inconsistent. I am
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not saying this out of disrespect, I am just stating the truth. When
I disrespect President Zuma, you call me to order and I obey. Can
you please do the same with the member?
She has sworn not to address me as an hon member. I am asking you to
instruct this lady to address me as hon Koni before she continues
with her debate. Earlier, Mr Ximbi referred to us as kids. Could he
please withdraw that? He is talking about a bar; this is because he
pretends he is a priest when he is a drunkard.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): I will start with hon member
Zwane. Hon member Zwane, did you say that you will never call the
hon Koni, hon member Koni? I just want to check because she was
using her language and you said, ―Yes.‖ [Intejections.] Can you give
us a chance, hon Mokwele?
Ms L L ZWANE: Sihlalo ngithe kwehla ngamphimbo munye. Okwenza
kwabanye abantu ukulindele ukuthi kuzokwenziwa nakuwena. [Chair, I
said the same should apply. How you treat other people is how you
should expect them to treat you.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Zwane! Hon Zwane! Hon
Zwane! Please.
Ms L L ZWANE: I never said, I will never address her as honourable.
That is not what I have said.
24 NOVEMBER 2016
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Okay, you just heard her,
hon Koni. [Inaudible.] Oh, there is no translation? She is denying.
Akere o rile a ka se go bitše leloko le le hlomphegago? [Did she not
say that she will not address you as an hon member?]
She is denying. So, she will call you a hon member Koni. Thank you
very much ma. The hon member ... [Interjections.] Hon Mokwele,
please take your seat. We are still dealing with the point of orders
that were raised by your hon member. I will recognise you after I am
done with the ruling. Hon Ximbi, did you just call the hon members,
children?
Mr D L XIMBI: Hayi andikhange nditsho mama, ndithe ... [No I didn‘t
say so mama, I said ...]
... hon members, I said hon members.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Okay, I will go and check
with the Hansard and come back with the ruling. Hon Koni, take your
seat. Take your seat, hon Koni. I am done with this one. I will go
consult the Hansard and then I will come back with the ruling. Yes,
I will do that. Hon Mokwele, you were standing. You will be next,
hon Nthebe.
24 NOVEMBER 2016
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Ms T J MOKWELE: Modulasetilo, ke kopa go tsaya tšhono eno ...
[Chairperson, I would like to take this opportunity ...]
Through you, to put in on record that ...
... ga re itumelele mokgwa o maloko a Ntlo eno a re tsayang ka ona.
Ga re bana mo Ntong eno e bile ga re a tlela fano go tla go
tshameka. Re emetse batho ba ba farologaneng ... [Tsenoganong.]
(Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)
[... we are not happy with the way members of this House treat us.
We are not kids in this House and we are not here to play. We are
representing different people ... [Interjections.]]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale):Hon Mokwele, what is your
point of order.
Moh T J MOKWELE: Ke kopa gore go tloga jaanong maloko otlhe a Ntlo
eno a re tseye tsia, a se ke a re nyatsa. Ka Setswana sa borraetsho
ra re, susu ilela suswana gore suswana a tle a go ilele. Ke a
boeletsa, susu ilela suswana gore suswana a tle a go ilele. Puo eno
ga e fetolelwe gonne ke puo ya setho. (Translation of Setswana
paragraph follows.)
[Ms T J MOKWELE: I am pleading with the members of this House to
stop ill-treating us. There is a saying in Setswana: Do unto others
24 NOVEMBER 2016
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as you would like it to be done to you. I am repeating: Do unto
others as you would like it to be done to you. I don‘t need to
interpret that.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you, hon Mokwele,
order sustained. Hon Nthebe, do you still want to say something?
Mr B G NTHEBE: Chair, on a point of order: Can I plead with you that
you also check through the Hansard the latter part of the comments
made by hon Koni, attributed to hon Ximbi, which are very insulting.
Which are tarnishing the image and the persona of the hon member.
Thank you, Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Okay, thank you very much, I
will do that hon Nthebe and come back with the ruling. Thank you.
Ms L L ZWANE: Then let me address myself to the DA, but it is
unfortunate because hon Hattingh has already left the House. I
wanted to say those who live in glass houses should not throw stones
because here in the Western Cape, there are schools in the townships
with broken windows. There are schools in townships that are without
doors; and the reason for such schools not to be properly taken care
of is simply because they are in townships. So, he must be fair in
his comments. In the area of Manenberg for instance, there is a lot
of drug abuse that is not being attended to adequately. There are no
police sent there to go and conduct the searches and as a result
24 NOVEMBER 2016
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teachers and learners operate under the fear of gangsterism that is
very rife in that area. However, he is not saying anything about it.
The health facilities in Khayelitsha are overcrowded. Health
professionals working at health clinics in farms are using Afrikaans
when servicing Xhosa speaking patients, and because of
misunderstanding cause by this patients end up getting unfair
service and inappropriate medication. I think that is very
deliberate because they are servicing blacks.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Sorry hon Zwane, please take
your seat. Hon Mokwele,
Ke ka lebaka la eng o eme ka maoto? [Why are you standing?]
Moh T J MOKWELE: Modulasetilo, ke rata go itsise Semesegolo sa NCOP
gore rona re gona ka fa Ntlong, batho ba ba seyong ke ba DA le ba
ANC. (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)
[Ms T J MOKWELE: Chairperson, I would like to make the Chief Whip of
the NCOP aware of the fact that we are present, and that that is not
the case with DA and ANC members.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mokwele, you are out of
order. Please take your seat.
24 NOVEMBER 2016
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Ms T J MOKWELE: We are present. We have just received a message that
we must come back. We, as the EFF, are 99,9% present. We are doing
our work. [Interjections.]
Rre Chabangu o kwa dikomiting ... [Tsenoganong] [Mr Chabangu is at
committees ... [Interjections.]]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Okay, hon Mokwele, take your
seat. Take your seat. Continue, hon Zwane.
Ms L L ZWANE: So, I just wanted to advise hon Hattingh that he must
be fair in his comments and not look at what the ANC is doing ... If
they are failing to service the Western Cape alone, how much more
the entire South Africa; they cannot even attempt it.
The Provincial Week focused on education and health and I am going
to touch on a couple of issues related to these. I heard the
Minister in her debate talking about the fact that the Department of
Basic Education is investing a lot of money in Early Childhood
Development, ECD. This is highly commendable because we need to make
our foundation very firm at the lower stages of development if we
want to achieve quality in the final analysis. We really do
appreciate the fact that you are subsidising ECD centres, that
1,5 million children in South Africa are able to access the centres
and that you are paying R15 per day for each of those children who
attend ECD education over 264 days. That is highly commendable.
24 NOVEMBER 2016
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You also said that the issue of learner transport is being attended
to. In the schools that we went to in KwaZulu-Natal, there was an
outcry that not all the schools in the rural areas are benefiting
from learner transport; maybe that is the issue that you need to
attend to when you work on the budget. When we visited Thukeyana
Primary School, for instance, there was an outcry over learner
transport. But also the issue of infrastructure and the renewing and
upgrading of schools was a big problem there because of land
ownership problems. A number of schools in rural areas have got a
problem of land ownership, particularly those schools that are in
farms. Maybe the department together with local government need to
collaborate in order to ensure that we resolve those issues because
those schools cannot develop where they are, and Thukeyana is one
such school. The problem at Vulekani Special School is the lack of
professional services because learners there are not only physically
challenged but they are also intellectually challenged. So, we need
a lot of professional services including the health services. Thank
you, Chair. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): I want to humbly request the
Chief Whips to restructure the way they communicate with the
members. Maybe, they need to start by acknowledging those who are in
the House, and to even request those who are outside to come back to
the House. Please Chief Whips.
24 NOVEMBER 2016
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): House Chairperson, let be
upfront and thank the Minister for being available to this important
debate, but also indicate that all this is because of the manner in
which the presiding officers under the leadership of our hon
Chairperson of the NCOP, Thandi Modise, is able to lead us as the
NCOP.
The purpose of today‘s exercise is to deal with education. For
government to decide that education is its apex priority, it is just
responding to two things: Acknowledging that indeed, it‘s only
through education that we can be able to deal with the challenges
that we are facing as a country; and it means for us to be able to
build a better South Africa, it can only be done through education.
When the fifth term started, we agreed at a workshop as the NCOP
that we want to have an active NCOP, which would lead to an active
oversight. I want to challenge all members of the NCOP today,
irrespective of political affiliation. I was listening attentively
and towards the end listening to the fights; well I was a little bit
disturbed. What disturbed me most was that the fights, irrespective
of a party a member is representing, is not about how we are going
to be able to have those that are accountable to this committees
account. We are not fighting about that.
I am looking forward to a day where we will fight more about how we
are going to be able to have those that are coming to us to account,
24 NOVEMBER 2016
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account. As the NCOP under the leadership of our Chairperson, we
have different programmes - we have the oversight week, we have the
provincial week, we have the local government week, and taking
Parliament to the people.
We agreed that at all times when we go to Mpumalanga or Eastern
Cape, and we request hon members or officials or the department to
be represented, it is not because as the NCOP we are on a fault
finding mission, we will always give credit where it is due. When we
were in Eastern Cape, we were very inspired to see a 94-year-old in
Makaula Secondary School as a chairperson of the School Governing
Body, SGB, who was very articulate. He challenged us that before we
start the meeting, can we discuss the appalling situation of what we
see happening with universities in South Africa. It showed us that
if you have effective and efficient SGBs, it can always assist our
schools.
As I am standing here today, I can tell you that the school that
taught me to write regard me as a patron today – I am a father of
that school – I am not even a member of the SGB of that school, but
I am a father of that school – I made sure that they have a library
and books, and for your information hon members, every year, our
Parliament library discard books. It is our responsibility to take
those books to our respective rural areas where we come from and
assist those schools. So, we are part of that programme to assist,
hon Minister.
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Hon Windvoël was very clear in articulating what is happening in
Mpumalanga. Mpumalanga is part of the story that we have to use hon
Chief Whip, to share as the NCOP. Every time when we go to a
provincial week, we are afforded an opportunity as NCOP members to
have premiers and director-generals presenting what‘s happening to
us. The speaker will avail all MPLs, and they are always part of our
programme, and that assists us when we come back.
I deliberately didn‘t want to start reflecting about other provinces
because of the information that is in the office, as I knew that hon
Windvoël was going to reflect about what is happening in the
province.
Hon members, we have three tasks, nothing beyond that. Let‘s fight
about oversight, about public participation, and about legislation,
which is law making. Let‘s leave all the other issues. Those that
are looking at us know that education is key, and education is going
to them better.
I want to conclude by saying that maybe some times when we say ANC
wants to advance and deepen national democratic revolution without
simplifying it for all South Africans and hon members to understand,
it is a foreign and complex thing. In simpler terms it means: we
want to build a nonracial, nonsexist, democratic and prosperous
South Africa. There is no difference as parties. We are all saying
24 NOVEMBER 2016
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one and the same thing, which is building that. We only differ with
regard to strategies.
I am appealing to you, hon members; I am not even attacking any
party, that every time when we get this opportunity, let‘s fight
about the strategy of engagement to those that are supposed to come
to us to account. If we are going to be realistic about that at all
time, let‘s avoid the comfort of opinions without the discomfort of
thoughts ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Koni, you know heckling
is allowed, but you cannot drown the speaker ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): House Chairperson!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Koni, please. Continue
hon House Chair!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi) I am concluding House
Chairperson by saying hon members should at all times should just
not enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
I thank you.
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
24 NOVEMBER 2016
PAGE: 124 of 124
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal,
Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the
Constitution.
Ms T J MOKWELE: House Chair, with regard to the Free State, hon
Mohapi does not have the mandate for the province. I sit in
Whippery, that‘s how I know.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Mandates are not required,
hon Mokwele. That concludes the debate.
The Council adjourned at 16:50.
__________
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
Please click on the following link to access the relevant Announcements, Tablings and
Committee Reports for this day.
https://www.parliament.gov.za/parliamentary-papers?sorts[date]=-1
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