Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised Hansard
House: National Council of Provinces
Date of Meeting: 27 Oct 2016
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
THURSDAY, 27 OCTOBER 2016
____
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
____
The Council met at 14:02.
The House Chairperson Committees, Oversight, Co-operative Governance
and Intergovernmental Relations took the Chair and requested members
to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.
SITTING OF COUNCIL DEDICATED FOR ORAL QUESTIONS
(Draft Resolution)
The ACTING CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Hon Chairperson of the
Council, I hereby move the draft resolution printed in my name on
the Order Paper as follows:
That, not withstanding Rule 247(1), which provides that a sitting
of the Council will be dedicated for oral questions, the Council
considers the Report of the Select Committee on Land and Mineral
Resources.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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Question put: That the motion be agreed to.
In favour: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal,
Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Motion accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the
Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON LAND AND MINERAL
RESOURCES - RATIFICATION OF THE PARIS COP 21 AGREEMENT
Mr O J SEFAKO: Hon Chair, hon permanent delegates and Ministers in
our midst, thank you for allowing me to read the statement on behalf
of the Select Committee on Land and Mineral Resources: The
ratification of the Paris Agreement. The main objective of the Paris
Agreement is to limit the global temperature increase to 2°C well
below preindustrial levels. Some countries, including South Africa,
are supporting efforts to limit increase to 1,5°C. The reason for
this is that South Africa as a water-scarce developing country is
highly vulnerable to climate change.
The agreement is also an important tool in mobilising finance. It
recognises the commitment to switch to a low-carbon economy.
International funding will also help to scale up global efforts to
address and minimise loss and damage due to climate change and to
increase climate resilience. The ratification of the Paris Agreement
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secures concrete commitment to providing such funding sought since
the Durban outcomes were negotiated in 2011.
South Africa became party to the Paris Agreement on 22 April 2016.
At that time, it was stated that parties could sign the agreement
until April 2017. It was not anticipated that in an unprecedented
move of co-ordinated climate change diplomacy, the United States and
China - the two biggest contributors to global greenhouse gas
emissions - could ratify the Paris Agreement simultaneously at the
14th G20 Summit held in China in September 2016.
That event triggered a rush of parties acting to ratify the
agreement that now, with the support of two major economic power
houses, appeared set to come into effect sooner than later. The
threshold of 55 countries for ratification was reached to activate
the agreement which will enter into force on 4 November 2016.
The sentiments expressed by South Africa and its Brazil, Russia,
India, China and South Africa, Brics, partner, India, upon
announcing its decision to ratify the agreement, lightly summarises
the sentiments of the other countries that rushed to ratify. By
ratifying now, India decided in favour of playing a role in shaping
the global rules of the climate order. Delaying is likely to result
in extended years of attempting to join this group.
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The speed at which a country such as South Africa had to move in
order to become party to the ratification process of the Paris
Agreement does not, however, imply that we are not prepared to meet
its requirements. Prior to the development, South Africa had been
actively planning for a shift towards a low-carbon economy.
The ratifications of the agreement merely affirm our position on
climate change and it is in line with the country‟s Integrated
Resource Plan that was developed in 2010. The plan put forward a
multipronged approach for energy generation including coal, gaspowered turbines, solar energy, wind power and hydroelectric power
generation. This, coupled with other low-carbon initiatives, form
part of the country‟s response towards the required reduction in
greenhouse gas emissions.
South Africa as in the case with many of our Southern African
Development Community, SADC, neighbours, is accurately aware of the
potential impact of climate change. Presently with the temperature
increase estimated at being only half of the 1,5°C limit, South
Africa is supporting extreme weather conditions that are already
resulting in the severe pressure on our water resources and
agricultural capacity. There is simply no option, but to act
proactively and decisively.
In conclusion, it must be highlighted that the Paris Agreement was
adopted after four years of negotiations that were initiated by the
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17th Conference of the Parties, Cop 17, held in Durban in 2011.
Considering the pivotal role that South Africa played in laying the
foundation for the Paris Agreement, there should be no surprise that
we ratify the agreement timeously in order to ensure that South
Africa travels to Morocco next month as a negotiating party and not
as a spectator. I thank you very much, hon Chair. [Applause.]
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
In Favour: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal,
Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the
Constitution.
APPOINTMENT OF HON LEON VUSUMUZI MAGWEBU AS A PERMANENT DELEGATE
(Announcement)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, as you are aware
that one of our hon members has recently been appointed as a mayor;
so, join me in welcoming the new delegate from the Eastern Cape, hon
Vusi Magwebu. [Applause.]
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY
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ECONOMICS
Cluster 4A
Support for 100 Black industrialists
179.
Mr J J Londt (Western Cape: DA) asked the Minister of Trade and
Industry:
(a)
How
approved
many
for
applications
the
support
were
of
(i)
100
received
Black
and
(ii)
industrialists
targeted for support by his department, (b) how much has
been budgeted for this initiative and (c) how many job
opportunities
started?
have
been
created
since
this
initiative
CO441E
The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Chairperson, the answer to the
question is as follows: The department set a target of supporting
100 black industrialists for the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework,
MTEF, period. Twenty-two black industrialists with projects that
will create approximately 1 000 jobs has thus far been approved for
support. The response to the black industrialists programme is
overwhelming.
The department has received 270 applications of which 130 are
currently been processed between the department and the development
funding institutions that are part of the programme. 80 applications
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are currently with the applicants for additional information, 14
have been rejected for non-compliance with the policy. The Black
Industrialist Programme is of course a co-operative programme
between the Department of Trade and Industry and participates in
development finance institutions. So far, over R23 billion has been
pledged to support this programme. Thank you.
Mr J J LONDT: Hon Minister, my question relates to, firstly, how
much money has been spent thus far to create that 1 000 jobs that
you have alluded to? I know that you have indicated that R23 billion
has been put there for entire project. My concern is: What is the
long-term sustainability of this, because if we have spent for
instance up to this stage R1 billion; that is a lot of money that
has been spent to create one job. Will this project ensure that the
long-term sustainability of this give back what has been put in by
government and ensure that there is a cascading effect down further
in our economy?
The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Let me just say that this is a
programme that is very tightly constructed. It requires people to be
involved in defying industrial activities to have their own personal
risk involved in the project; to be an industrialist in all senses
of the term. Subject to correction, I think we have spent so far
about R1,5 million of the total, and a number of those projects are
really high quality manufacturing projects. I can cite gentleman in
the Coega Industrial Development Zone, who is making innovative
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syringes that are filled with dosages of various pharmaceutical
products. Many of them are also involved in the infrastructure
programme. People are involved in the production of, for example,
castings for a railway wagons and railway locomotives. So, in fact,
I am confident that what we are doing is that we are finding the
brightest and the best amongst black industrialist.
We have to transform this sector because this sector is highly
underrepresented. But I can assure the hon member that we are
picking people who are really industrialists and I think that
actually the amounts of money which we spent per job are compares
very favourable with what we get from the general incentive
disposals that we are responsible for.
Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: Hon House Chair, I need to get from the Minister,
what kind of mechanism is in place to ensure that the already
industrialised provinces do not also benefit again out of this
particular programme so that we decentralise industrialisation
through this Black Industrialisation Programme, and take it to the
rural areas of the country so that we do not become urban buyers
again - the provinces that are already advanced become more advanced
as compared to others?
The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Let me say, as I have already
indicated one of the examples I gave is somebody who is in the
Eastern Cape. So, it is not just in the established industrial
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areas. We will be looking of course at the overall spread and can
give a report from time to time so that you can look at what this
means. But there are a number of other programmes in place that we
are using to try to promote industrial decentralisation. They
include, the Special Economic Zones, SEZs. The most recent one that
we basically awarded the permit to is the Musina, SEZ, which is
around metals fabrication and also logistics.
There is also the Industrial Parks Revitalisation Programme. We have
been providing support for industrial parks. Some of those are
providing very significant employment, for example, the last time
when I went to Isithebe, in KwaZulu-Natal, the total number of
people working there is about 25 000 and quite a number of tenants
there are black-owned industrial companies.
So, I think we are sensitive to this, but at this point apart from
the examples I can give, I can‟t give you an overall picture, but
can say that it is our intention to support people across the
country, and not just in the established areas. Thank you.
Mr B G NTHEBE: Minister, you also touched on the revitalisation of
the industrial parks. I know for a fact that in the North West you
are busy with two. My question is: In relation to the black
industrialist, are you also looking into possibility of making sure
that they tap into the possibilities that you are creating in the
industrial parks revitalisation? Thank you, Chair.
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The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: There is no condition that
anybody who receives the benefits of the Black Industrialist
Programme has to operate in any particular area, but as I did say
earlier on, what I become aware of in particular by going around to
a number of them – I have been to three so far, and we are rollingout industrial park revitalisations in a number of places, is that
there are very significance industrial activities that are taking
place in these areas.
The infrastructure in a number of cases has become fairly
dilapidated and that is why we will be supporting. This is an
example of actually fairly small investment, producing fairly large
returns. The number of jobs in ... I mentioned Isithebe, but
Botshabelo is about 10 000, then we were also up in Seshego, and it
is about nearly 2 000 people working there.
There are quite significant numbers of people and quite innovative
companies that are operating in these areas. It is our intention to
support those and provide many more opportunities for industrial
activities across the country and some of those are hopefully will
be people that draw on the Black Industrial Programme as well.
Industrial Policy Action Plan: incentive packages
168.
Mr B G Nthebe (North West: ANC) asked the Minister of Trade and
Industry:
27 OCTOBER 2016
(a)
What
PAGE: 11 of 165
incentive
packages
will
be
offered
to
other
sectors prioritised in the Industrial Policy Action Plan,
especially the agro-industrial sector (details furnished)
and (b) what are the time frames for such incentives?
CO428E
The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Chairperson, the 12(i) Tax
Allowance Incentive provides for tax holidays - if you like – for
companies who are involved in both green field and brown field
investments in industrial sectors as well as the recently relaunched
manufacturing competitive enhancement programme. Loan facilities are
available to support sectors that are prioritised in our industrial
policy action plan that are not subject to other sector specific
incentive programmes.
In addition to that, we have indicated in the current iteration of
our industrial policy that we are shifting the focus towards sector
specific initiatives because we have seen that we have sector
specific programmes, for example, automotives, clothing, textiles,
aquaculture, film production and business process service sectors.
We have seen very positive results from these sector specific
programmes. As a result of that work is currently underway to
finalise an agroprocessing incentive programme - a dedicated
agroprocessing incentive programme to stimulate employment creation
and retention, investment and supply development in this very, very
important subsector which we , together with agriculture, have
identified as potentially the fastest growing job creation sector in
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our economy. The programme will be announced once funding is secured
through the Medium-Term Budget Policy process.
Mr B G NTHEBE: Thank you so much, Minister. The logic and the reason
behind why I posed such a question was to determine whether the
Springbokpan in the North West is in anyway going to be a potential
beneficiary of such incentive and stimulate the potential for
agroprocessing industrial growth in such a rural area. The reason
why we are asking is because we are of the view that we should be
able to stimulate and enhance rural activities so that we are able
to grow in those sectors. Thank you, Chair.
The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Well, I don‟t know a specific
project. In fact, as a Minister I would not like to get involved in
decisions about whether any specific project qualifies or not. We
have teams in place that receive applications for the two incentives
I mentioned, the section 12(i) and the manufacturing competitiveness
enhancement programme, Mcep. Actually, the biggest components of the
Mcep as it was in place have been agroprocessing projects. We do see
agroprocessing projects is very, very important and it is for that
reason that we decided to develop a sector specific agroprocessing
scheme. We think that when we have that in place, as I said earlier
on, we need a generic programme of course to catch other things, but
where we have a sector specific programme I think we have seen
somewhat better results and that‟s why we are moving towards that
direction. Thank you.
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Mr J J LONDT: Thank you, hon Minister. Minister, letting on to the
previous questions on the agroprocessing. During the select
committee meeting held on 25 October, the department indicated that
many of the agroindustrial support would go to rural provinces.
Apart from Gauteng, most of the provinces in our country excluding
the metros, are in fact rural provinces. Will your department aim to
ensure that the agroindustrial support will be spread fairly to all
provinces to help uplift all rural communities across South Africa?
The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Well, I suppose agroprocessing
is about things that happen in the rural areas where farming takes
place. So, it is not really a surprise that they are saying most of
the agroprocessing projects will be in the rural areas.
But let me just say that we look at these things from the point of
view of the value of a particular proposal – that‟s how is looked
at. So, I think we are not going to be rushing in the resources
according to provinces. Well, I think we will take account obviously
of trying to achieve some kind of equitable spread in the end, but
we will be looking at projects based on their merits and all our
processes operate on that basis.
Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: Hon House Chair, it is common knowledge that our
economy on the gross side is not doing very well. I need to check
from the Minister. Do you do assessment of the successes and
failures of the action plan, and if so, at what intervals?
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The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: As you are saying it, it is not
a secret that our economy is not doing particularly well, but I
think that within that there are a few green shoots. One of those
green shoots does happen to be the performance of parts of
manufactory, and example is, when we avoided two consecutive
quarters of negative growth, one of the features of the quarter
where we had 3% growth was that we had 8% growth in manufacturing. I
think that shows what can be achieved in the manufacturing sector.
We have seen some very significant investments in a number of our
subsectors - autos, clothing and textile. They are not just
stabilising, but actually growing employment. Looking now at export
performance, we have seen some successes in parts of agroprocessing
which is why we want to design a sector specific programme. We have
seen successes in the film industry, business process services and
in industries that are related to infrastructure such as compound
manufacturers and this is a category called fast moving consumer
goods among others.
I think we do constantly monitor what the achievements are in the
industrial policy action plan, Ipap. We present these every year in
the latest iterations of the Ipap. It is a rolling action plan. What
I would say is that we have demonstrated that industrial policy
works. It is not yet at the scale where we defined a completely new
growth path for our country, but I do think that there are some
important successes from our industrial policy. Thank you.
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, in terms of the
Rule of the House, for Question 191 no arrangement was made. The
member is not in the House and no one is representing the member.
Hon Minister, we will go to Question 178 instead of Question 191.
Trade negotiations with UK
178.
Mr J J Londt (Western Cape: DA) asked the Minister of Trade and
Industry:
Whether,
with
reference
to
the
decision
by
the
United
Kingdom (UK) to leave the European Union, his department
has taken any steps to ensure that South Africa is the
leading country in Africa regarding trade negotiations with
the UK; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant
details?
CO440E
The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY): House Chairperson, the
Department of Trade and Industry through its international trade and
economic development division had a number of engagements with the
British High Commission on trade negotiations with the United
Kingdom, UK, after that country‟s Brexit.
Discussions have emphasised the need to negotiate a trade agreement
with the UK that will build on the economic partnership agreement
that we have recently put in place with the European-Union, EU. We
have argued for this in order to limit the disruption that may arise
with regards to South Africa‟s access to the UK market.
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This is a principle that has and will continue to be communicated so
as to already define the scope of our discussions. I am also due to
meet with the British High Commission in order to discuss this point
further. I have also had engagements with one of the Ministers of
State from the UK.
In addition to our own engagements as the department, the SA High
Commission in London has engaged the foreign and commonwealth office
in the Department of International Trade. The SA High Commission
will pursue further meetings with officials in the foreign and
commonwealth office and the Department of International Trade to
ensure that South Africa receives due priority in the negotiations
that follow Brexit and to also remain abreast of developments in the
UK around their intentions for Brexit.
Negotiations with the UK will be undertaken through the Southern
African Customs Union, Sacu, which is the arrangement that we have
in place for all external trade negotiations, but also because it is
very important that we preserve a common external tariff in any
external negotiation.
It should be noted that the UK has not yet submitted its Article 15
notice that will trigger their exit from the EU. The UK cannot
actually start formal negotiations until that is done. Until it is
done ... in fact the Economic Partnership Agreement, EPA remains in
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place and the EPA continues to define our trade relations with the
UK. Therefore, what I can report is that we have started and there
are ongoing discussions with the UK as to what may happen once they
trigger Brexit. Thank you.
Mr J J LONDT: Hon Minister, trade partners and investors are looking
for economies that are stable for long-term mutually beneficial
relationships and agreements. That is the reason political
uncertainty and instability negatively impact in our ability to
negotiate South Africa‟s position to get ourselves the best deal.
The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: House Chair, the most recent
agreement that we have just been talking about was the economic
partnership agreement that has just recently come into force with
the EU. In that, we secured some substantial improvements in market
access, for example, for the first time we managed to get a quota
for sugar – 150 000 tons of sugar. We have an increased quota for
wine – 110 million litres of wine and 80 000 tons of ethanol.
In addition to that, we are now able to export fisheries products to
the EU without there been any fisheries agreement in place that he
is talking about – fishing quotas. We have had to pay for that in
the form of geographic indications recognising a number of product
names with the exception of feta cheese. None of those are names
that are currently used in South Africa. We have secured Rooibos,
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Honeybush and Karoo lamb as recognised geographic indications in the
EU.
So, I think that our ability to negotiate decent trade agreements is
underscored by that. We have done it. We continue to do it and
prioritise within the African continent. I am going to a meeting
over the weekend on the Southern African Development Community, SADC
tripartite, where we are very close to concluding a tariff schedule
with East African community and also with Egypt, which would be a
big step forward in regional integration on the African continent.
So, our ability to negotiate quality trade agreements is very much
in place as a country. Thank you.
Mr E MAKUE: Hon House Chairperson, in our Minister‟s response, he
refers a lot the EPAs that we have. Now, we have moved from the
trade and development co-operation agreement into EPAs that we are
made to understand is much better. Are we going to only concentrate
on trade or will this agreement also has elements of co-operation
and development components within it, because for us as a country it
is going to be important that whilst we can‟t read the 3 000 pages
of the agreement, we get to understand that we are not losing out on
elements that we have had in the trade and development co-operation
agreement? Thank you, Chair.
The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: I think that it‟s probably
important to say that, because we dug in, because we achieved unity
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in our group – the SADC-EPA group, because we refused to sign things
that didn‟t make sense for our economy, we ended up with a deal
which was a lot better than the original draft that was put before
us. So, we don‟t have to make commitments in areas of competition
policy and intellectual property.
We have won back some of the policy space that would enable us, for
example, to deploy taxes on export taxes if we so choose as a
country, which has been signed away in the trade development
corporation agreement. So, we won back some policy space. The
biggest limitation on market access for our products in the EU,
under the trade and development co-operation agreement was in
agricultural products where we are competitive. Products are
actually challenging to some products in the EU.
As I indicated earlier, we have achieved some very significant
quotas for some of our products. One thing I should say since this
is a question about Brexit is that we have been saying to the EU
that, when new members come into the EU as it is done from time to
time, with the most recent being Croatia, we have not received an
additional quota.
So, I think we turning around our message to the EU that if one
leaves, in this case Britain, we don‟t expect that quota to be
reduced. We expect those quotas to stay as they are and then we will
have to negotiate an agreement based on the parameters and framework
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of EPA with the UK. By the way, the UK is our ninth largest trading
partner. Our trade with UK relatively balance at about R4 billion
each way. Thank you.
Small-scale commercial fishing rights
152. Ms E Prins (Western Cape: ANC) asked the Minister of
Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries:
(1)
What resources will his department make available to
the historically disadvantaged fisher groups, in light
of his department‟s proposal for the registration of a
single
cooperative
for
each
community
(details
furnished);
(2)
whether there are sufficient fish stocks remaining to
make small-scale commercial fisheries viable; if not,
what is the position in this regard; if so, what are
the relevant details?
CO410E
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES (Mr S Zokwana):
House Chair, it is envisioned that the small-scale fisheries sector
will get access to the near shore resource that are found in the
vicinity of established co-operatives and that can be accessed by
day fishing trips. The small scale fishing regulations also
27 OCTOBER 2016
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prescribes no-take and no-sale of certain species due to their low
level of abundance.
Furthermore, fish that can only be targeted by troll, person and
long line are off-limits. The species groups of most interest to
small scale fisheries are lobster, line fish, net fish, abalone,
oysters, muscles, squid and seaweed. The department is still to
announce what proportion of the total allowable cash and total
applied effort relating to those species are to be made available to
the small-scale sector.
The small-scale fisheries is not just about commercialisation and
economic viability. For many communities small-scale fisheries will
be a source of contributing to food security. The risk to further
***** is by the co-operatives do not receive an equitable allocation
of resources. Some means of improving viability of co-operatives is
for a basket of **** to be allocated to co-operatives. For example,
members to equipped to participate in the entire fishing value
chain, formation of secondary co-operatives to improve the
bargaining power of the co-operatives, and conservation of
alternative livelihoods to supplement the income generated by
fishing.
Ms E PRINS: Hon Chairperson. Minister, most scientific reports state
that commercial coastal species are already optimal exploded, over
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exploded or the stock has collapsed. What alternative livelihood is
in place to supplement the income generated by fishing?
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES (Mr S Zokwana):
Aquaculture is one of the ventures that the department after
operation Pagisa on oceans economy has ventured upon. To make a
point that hosieries are created so that we can plant back into the
ocean what has been depleted. Also the Act explains as to how we
must make sure that sustainability is achieved so that you fish in a
way that does not deplete the marine resources.
Mr C F B SMIT: Hon House Chairperson, hon Minister, what has your
department done this far to address the bias allocation and
manipulation and fishing rights to politically-connected ANC cadres?
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES (Mr S Zokwana):
Hon Smit should be aware that the current marine living resources
locks out black people because only those who have fishing vessels
can be access the location of any species. It is not allowed or
permissible for any partnership with the foreign vessel. As I speak,
nobody who has not been having rights can exploit our rich marine
living resources. We are busy to change that scenario so that
everybody can access. Only five companies currently are exploiting
our marine resources. All of them are not owned by any ANC-aligned
person. They are owned by white people as they were designed
formally and they still do so.
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Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Hon Chair, hon Minster, illegal fishing
from the east is fast depleting on our fishing stock. This is on top
of the 312 million kg of fish consumed each year in South Africa,
according to the SA Sustainable Seafood Initiative, Sassi.
Currently, our legal and governance framework is inadequate to deal
with this issue. I would like to know form you what your department
is doing about this to curb this issues, ensure sustainable fishing
is occurring and hold those in controversial with the laws to
account?
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES (Mr S Zokwana):
House Chair, illegal fishing is truly a threat to our fishing
industry and broadly to our food security. One part of the Operation
Pakisa on oceans economy was dealing with this matter, to make sure
that we are able to ensure that our surveillance is improved. I am
sure that you are aware that this year, we were able to comprehend a
number of illegal vessels in our ocean. So, we are not only saying
we are concerned, we are also working.
Let me highlight that it is not true sometimes that only communities
along our oceans are involved in illegal fishing. A case has been
settled where a well-known and a very big company was involved in
illegal fishing. So, we are dealing with that and I can assure you
that we will be able to arrest those because our systems are as such
that we are able to detect each and every illegal vessel that enters
our waters and we are able to intercept, working with other
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departments that are within the fishing area or with the maritime
transport.
Mr L B GAEHLER: Chair, hon Minister, what is your department doing
about small-scale fishers who are being used by larger companies as
fronts?
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES (Mr S Zokwana):
Hon House Chair, fronting is one of those areas we are dealing with,
as part of the new policy on allocation of fishing rights. It will
not only be illegal but will be followed out. By the way, we have
created a company that must ensure that we verify the information
submitted, tht no worker will be declared as a shareholder when he
is not. So, it is not just a question of commitment; it is a
question that is going to be followed up to make sure that all those
who contravene the Act are not only persecuted but their fishing
rights will also be withdrawn.
Fresh water aquaculture project
190.
Mr C F B Smit (Limpopo: DA) asked the Minister of
Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries:
Whether his department has any plans to revitalise the
failed fresh water aquaculture project in Limpopo; if not,
why not; if so, what are the relevant details?
CO454E
27 OCTOBER 2016
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The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: House Chair,
the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, in
partnership with the Limpopo Department of Agriculture and Rural
Development, is providing support to Petwane Irrigation Scheme
project which is aquaculture to ensure the success of the project.
Capacity-building initiatives for the beneficiaries are underway.
The initiative includes business and financial management, further
training on production systems and other techniques.
Mr C F B SMIT: Hon House Chairperson, with regards to the failed
fishing farm in Mafefe village that was established by the
Department of Trade and Industry will your department invest in a
revitalisation plan to generate jobs for aquaculture in that area?
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: As I have said,
after the report on oceans economy was adopted, aquaculture became
our flagship with the view of making sure that where no fishing has
taken place or where there is no ocean people can be able to access
the protein-rich products like fish. So, of course, working with the
province, we will make sure that particular aquaculture project is
revitalised and that there is training, because training is key to
the people who are running these programmes.
Climate change mitigation/adaptation programmes
151. Mr E M Mlambo (Gauteng: ANC) asked the Minister of
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Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries:
(1)
How much funding is his department committing towards
climate
change mitigation
and
adaptation
programmes
(details furnished);
(2)
whether his department has funded any climate-smart
agricultural
projects
directed
at
small-scale
commercial producers that have a less secure water
supply; if not, what is the position in this regard;
if so, what are the relevant details?
CO409E
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Most of the
department‟s work outputs in the domain of climate change mitigation
adaptation derive from a limited budget allocation for the
operational activities. However, the department has funded a number
of climate change-related research projects with limited funding.
There is no exclusively dedicated funding to climate change that is
at work. At present, with the limited funding we have been able to
do some work. Included to that was the invention of the seed that
can be able to withstand drought which was done through the funding
by the Melinda and Bill Gates Foundation. So, such an effort is
meant to ensure that climate change is not only mitigated but that
we are able to work within the systems. We have endorsed the
principle of marked agriculture as well as conservation agriculture
27 OCTOBER 2016
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to ensure that we save the soil from erosion as well as to improve
productivity.
These programmes include land care programmes which are implementing
climate-smart agriculture through conservation agriculture. The
position in this regard is that climate change is a cross-cutting
issue and we are working with the Department of Environmental
Affairs to ensure that we share our expertise as well as limited
resources.
Mr E M MLAMBO: Hon Chair, hon Minister, I would like to know which
provinces benefited out of this limited fund because there were
provinces that were seriously affected by drought? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: When we
referred to the new seed that is drought-resistant, we will make
sure that all the provinces that have been exposed or have possibly
been affected by drought receive it. Last month we had a conference
in Kimberley on land care programmes. Land care is about putting
back into production areas that have been affected by land
degradation or soil erosion and all provinces form part of that
programme.
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Hon Minister, in yesterday‟s Medium-Term Budget
Policy Statement, MTBPS, for Vote 24-Agriculture, the department‟s
preliminary performance report indicated that the 145 000 target
27 OCTOBER 2016
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that was set in terms of giving assistance to subsistence and
smallholder producers during the 2016-17 financial year ... actually
the achievement that was made in this first six months of the 2016
financial year in terms giving assistance to subsistence and
smallholder farmers was zero. If this department is so concerned
about assisting small-scale farmers with a less secure water supply,
why the above appalling statistics on assistance to small-scale
farmers, and even more importantly, why did your department move
away money from the Water Research Commission, WRC, and spent it on
motor vehicles, travel and accommodation? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: House Chair,
for us to succeed in dealing with subsistence farming, which is key
to food security, land is a requirement. I will make an example, not
being political, with the Western Cape scenario, where there is no
land dedicated for small-scale farmers. Even where there is some
food production in the area of Phillipi, those farmers are in court
currently because their production is threatened with the land being
sold. Last week, on Tuesday, I was in Malmesbury where I met with a
group of female farmers and I found out that one of the key things
that are failing there is an allocated land by the province or by
the municipality to make sure that such farmers are assisted.
Yes, I can agree that with the recent drought, most affected were
those kind of farmers but we do have the programme now. Because
without fencing off any land where there will be production, there
27 OCTOBER 2016
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can be no success. But as a department we have a plan as we have got
a programme. What we need is that members of this House, from
whichever province they come, land is made available for people who
want to produce food for their own families. I made an example of
the Western Cape because I went to that area and found that that
there is no land allocation. And without land there is no way in
which people can be encouraged to begin to be involved in smallscale production for their families.
Mnu M KHAWULA: Sihlalo ohloniphekile, mhlonishwa uNgqongqoshe,
ulokho ukhuluma ngembewu yezimangaliso ka-Bill Gates Foundation,
manje asazi noma lembewu izoqhumisa Umzumbe bhontshisi noma
mhlawumbe izoqhumisa amantongomane noma izoqhumisa ubhatata.
Mhlawumbe umhlonishwa uma engasicobelela eshungwini lakhe ukuthi
lembewu yezimangaliso izoqhumisani nanokuthi thina bale koMzumbe
kwaHlongwa nathi esihlala le eNkandla kubaba umeya uNtuli, uma
isikhona lembewu siyihlukanisa kanjani nale esinayo ezwela kakhulu
ukuguquka kwesimo sezulu? Ngiyathokoza. (Translation of isiZulu
paragraph follows.)
[Mr M KHAWULA: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister you are busy talking
about the amazing seed of Bill Gates Foundation, we don‟t know
whether it will produce Umzumbe beans or peanuts or sweet potatoes.
Can the Minister can give us share with us from his knowledge as to
what this amazing seed will produce and when the seed is here, how
will we differentiate it from the one that we have which is affected
27 OCTOBER 2016
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by climate change as the people of Mzumbe at Hlongwa and to us who
live in Nkandla under the leadership of Mr Ntuli who is the mayor?
Thank you.]
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: The hon member
seems to understand what seed I am speaking about because he has
mentioned it. I have said this seed is for maize.
Ngiyakuthembisa lungu laleNdlu elihloniphekile ukuthi uma lembewu
isifikile abaninipulazi bazofundiswa. [I promise you, hon member of
this August House, that when the seed comes the farmers will be
taught about it.]
Farmers will be exposed, taught and empowered to make sure that they
know. One of the things we need to do is to inform our farmers
because some of the maize is of the different make such that you can
not replant it, like maize which is of the other advanced
technologies such that you need therefore to make sure every year
that you buy new maize. I am speaking of Genetically Modified
Organisms, GMOs, but this one I can assure you are not that kind
that is why we are replanting it. It will empower farmers to ensure
that they can put it for replanting and also when they plant it even
if there is some drought they can be guaranteed of getting good
yields. But I agree with you without teaching or making sure that
farmers are aware and that it is well explained to them it can be a
27 OCTOBER 2016
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problem. I can assure you this one is for maize not for
amantongomane [peanuts], not for anything else.
Ms E PRINS: Hon Chairperson, the United Nations Framework Convention
on Climate Change, UNFCCC, and Ferrous Agreement are instructive on
implementing measures towards adaptation and mitigation against
climate change. Minister, what are the relevant programmes
implemented by the department to address climate change? I thank
you.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Chairperson, as
I have said earlier, one of the programmes is to deal with soil
erosion through land care in order to bring back that land into
production. One of those is to promote conservation agriculture,
which is not to till and when you do that you reduce the emissions
because you use less diesel. But, more than that, you make sure that
the soil will be safe even if you may have heavy rains as the top
soil will not have been disturbed. In so doing you will be able to
reduce the costs to farmers. Other forms would be venturing into
biogas production so that we are able to ensure that you use the
waste for the production of organic fertiliser and improving the
health of people. And also going into mitigation is to say, we
cannot change climate change, the methods and ways we use in our
production must conform to that. When coming to animals, it is about
making sure that you invest, through research, in finding new
vaccines.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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Let me rush to say, as a department, we are busy at work. Not only
alone but with other departments in finding new methods of making
sure that we research on new cultivars – cultivars refers to seeds
that will be able to grow not matter how dry it may be, and even
knowing which seeds grow where. Climate change is a reality so
change must be what we embrace as a department and all farmers on
board.
West Rand Agricultural Training Institute
187.
Mr J W W Julius (Gauteng: DA) asked the Minister of
Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries:
Whether the West Rand Agricultural Training Institute in
Gauteng is currently functional; if not, why not; if so,
how many students have graduated from the institution so
far?
CO451E
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: House Chair,
our department has no knowledge of the existence of the referred
college as we have 11 colleges that we are dealing with. However,
hon Julius has had the discussion with me outside on something else
and I would be willing to work with him to trace that college. If it
is registered, we can be able to put up methods because each college
of agriculture is very important, not only in training students but
also in training farmers. Again, I want to say that we would be
27 OCTOBER 2016
PAGE: 33 of 165
happy if you can give us more information and we‟ll be able to visit
and see if it is ... It is not amongst the 11 colleges of
agriculture that are registered.
Mr J W W JULIUS: Thank you House Chair. Yes, indeed Minister that
was another discussion. It was about corruption and I didn‟t want to
bring it here but, yes you should learn to discuss. You must
discuss. It is good to discuss so that people can get services. I
have few minutes ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Julius, you are dealing
with the Minister here.
Mr J W W JULIUS: ... Yes, I am just saying that members should learn
to discuss so that our people can get services. It is no use to
fight all the time. Yes, because we don‟t have time for limping
buffalos. As lions we must stand together and fight that buffalo
which is limping. But hon Minister, yes, this college was closed for
years. A lot of money has been put into this college. I am referring
to the forgotten West Rand. It was supposed to create jobs; help
with poverty alleviation; education and training; getting our youth
interested in agriculture; and finally food security on the West
Rand and also Gauteng as a whole. What I want to know Minister is
how much money was spent on this project so far; who will be held
accountable for its failure; and when will it be kick-started again.
Thank you.
27 OCTOBER 2016
PAGE: 34 of 165
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Maybe I should
respond by saying again that we would appreciate it if we are given
more information on the college. The reason I am saying this is that
we have 11 agricultural training institutions or colleges in South
Africa. Six of those are across our provinces and they are as
follows: Tsolo and Fort Cox in the Eastern Cape; Glen College in the
Free State; Matsibandila and Tompi Seleka in Limpopo; Taung and
Potchefstroom in the North West; Elsenburg in the Western Cape and
Grootfontein Agricultural Development Institute in Middlelburg.
Therefore, all those 11 are what we have in our database. I do not
deny that it may have been built. Remember, even the private sector
sometimes do participate in creating such institutions.
We do not deny and want to make sure that young kids have interest
in agriculture, but more that farmers are trained. As soon as you
furnish me with the information hon Julius, I can guarantee you that
we will follow up and be able because our interest – remember, most
colleges have been refurbished and put back into operation after
many years of neglect. I won‟t go back to explain why the government
then didn‟t see the value of colleges but I would rather say our
challenge now is to make sure that all of them are identified and
where there is a need for co-operation between different entities,
we will. I promise that when you do that – had you given me these
details before I came here, I am sure I would not – I am not trying
to deny that the college doesn‟t exist. All I am saying is that it
is not within our database.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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Mr L B GAEHLER: Can you please protect me Chairperson? We cannot
talk about what we have talked about last night here, hon Wana.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Gaehler, you are
protected. Hon Wana.
Mr L B GAEHLER: Some of the challenges facing the agricultural
colleges including Fort Cox is the production of agricultural
practitioners for our economy. Now, how is the department planning
to assist in the resolution of those challenges, working with other
stakeholders like the Department of Higher Education and Training
and the provincial government? Also included but limited is the
registration of Fort Cox under the former Bantustan laws, the Ciskei
former Bantustan and the lack of NSFAS funding by deserving
students.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Hon House
Chair, Fort Cox is part of the 11 colleges I have mentioned. Yes,
challenges were there but we are busy addressing them. Remember,
some of the skills needed in the agriculture are not only produced
by these colleges. We work through different universities.
Therefore, the issue you are referring to is understood. However, on
the other part of your question as to what are the relations between
the Department of Higher Education and us, let me inform you that
last week I had a lengthy meeting with the Minister of Higher
Education not limited to whether colleges will fall under their
27 OCTOBER 2016
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department, but as to what co-operation we will find. Last week we
presented to the Economic Cluster of government, a new approach in
dealing with extension services and to research to make sure that
research is being done, and that those trained extension officers
will be available and among communities so that their work will
enhance the work of farmers. But again, let me add that these
colleges are not only designed for students to be extension
officers. Their aim is to train local farmers to understand the
issues of climate change, climate adaptation and the rest so that
they are able to produce maximally.
Mr C HATTINGH: Hon House Chair, I am happy that we get so much
information from the Minister about the Western Cape. It is very
revealing. The Minister has said that he will not ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Order, members!
Mr C HATTINGH: ... go into details of the neglect. Apparently, he
has information on neglect. I would like to know, the Minister can
tell us ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Hattingh, come closer to
the mike.
Mr C HATTINGH: I would like the Minister to tell us about the
serious neglect of historical building, the Selborne Hall and the
27 OCTOBER 2016
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Alex Holm hall at the Potchefstroom College of Agriculture. What
went wrong there and why is it going the way it is despite millions
being spent there, and it‟s still not functional? Please give us the
reasons for the neglect in the past 15 years. Thank you.
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, I don‟t need
assistance. Hon Minister, although it is a new question it is
entirely up to you whether you want to comment.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Let me comment
by saying that we have spent more funding to rebuild most of our
training colleges. By the way, last week I was not only in the
Western Cape, but also in Potchefstroom. I have met with farmers who
complained about the issue you are raising. Let me tell you that it
is not only on negative issues that I do visit the Western Cape. At
Stellenberg students produced the best wine while they were still
studying. When they finished their schooling, they were able to
start a wine distilling as far as Queenstown. It is not that I was
in the province. I am always invited. It is not that I want to find
faults.
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: I would like to know from you Minister
specifically to the one in Gauteng province. Maybe it is high time
not to visit the Western Cape province but to go to the Gauteng
ones. What are the time frames to get the college reopened, and what
intervention plans are in place to ensure that the West Rand
27 OCTOBER 2016
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Agricultural Training Institute is reopened and functional? Thank
you.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: House Chair, I
have given the response by saying that all colleges of education ...
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members ...
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: I always say
when I was trained, whenever I am delivering post like a postman and
other things disturb me on the way, I choose to disregard them. In
this case the answer to the question is the same as to hon Julius.
He has agreed with me that together – because both of us stay in
Gauteng – we will not only visit the college to see who owns it, but
as the department we will own its re-establishment. I agree with him
that the West Rand is one of the major food production nodes in
Gauteng given the fact that not much land is available anymore.
Therefore, I can assure you that I don‟t think I must give you a
time frame when even the identification of the college ... If I were
to ask you where is it in West Rand, you may not be able to answer
me. Let us visit it first, identify where it is and then from there,
we can be able to deal with it.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members. Hon Julius that
was ... Hon Mlambo, the question by hon Mpambo-Sibhukwana was the
fourth one. We are done with follow-up questions.
Mr J W W JULIUS: Chairperson, on a point of order: Hon Mohapi wants
to sit in your place there. Maybe you should change. Maybe he
qualifies. He is after you. The point of order is that the question
was plain and simple. It is not about where it is because I am sure
House Chair you do not know where it is either.
The CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Julius, that is not a point of
order. Take your seat.
NC Fishing Infrastructure Development/Management Project
165. Mr C J e Beer (Northern Cape: ANC) asked the Minister of
Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries:
(1)
Whether
the
Northern
Cape
Fishing
Infrastructure
Development and Management Project (details furnished)
is still a priority for his department to complete; if
not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details;
(2)
when will
the
the Namakwa District Municipality receive
outstanding
payment
documentation was provided;
for
which
supporting
27 OCTOBER 2016
(3)
PAGE: 40 of 165
what progress has been made to proclaim Port Nolloth
as a fishing harbour?
CO423E
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: House Chair,
the Northern Cape fishing infrastructure development and management
project is currently being implemented by the Namakwa District
Municipality and is a Working for Fisheries Programme project. Its
aim is to ensure that jobs are created around fisheries.
The project entailed the Port Nolloth jetty upgrade, Port Nolloth
processing facility upgrade, and Port Nolloth and Hondeklipbaai
harbours maintenance in management along the Northern Cape coast.
The department acknowledges the importance of the Northern Cape
fishing infrastructure development and management project but, in
recent years, there has been a significant decline in the fisheries
sector in the region, whilst the department‟s 12 fishing harbours
have been in dire need of a revamp to safeguard the communities
against economic losses.
The department is in the process of verifying supporting
documentation and will afterwards settle the outstanding debt. We
have been in engagement with the municipality, and we know very well
that it depends on when they will give us the supporting documents.
Only then would we be able to settle the outstanding debts. Let me
assure this House that under Operation Phakisa, the Department of
Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries wants to make sure that all
27 OCTOBER 2016
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harbours are upgraded, are in working condition, and that they
service the communities around which they are built. They are
national entities and will remain so. I believe even this one will
be dealt with and improved.
Mr C J DE BEER: Chairperson, I stand here today on behalf of the
communities of Port Nolloth and Hondeklip Bay, representing the poor
people on the South African West Coast and in my province, the
Northern Cape.
For many, many years, it was relied upon De Beers Consolidated Mines
to provide work to those people. They pulled out De Beers
Consolidated Mines and left a vacuum. We have to go the way of the
ocean economy. We have to go the way of agriculture. Thank you,
Minister, for the role your department plays to assist in economic
growth, not only in the country as a whole but in that area of my
province.
Listening to the reply, hon Minister, I would plead with and ask the
Minister whether his department would assist to ensure that we go
the route of public-private partnership, PPP, as is being done in
Namibia, for the communities of Port Nolloth and Hondeklip Bay
regarding the harbour. Illegal fishing is taking place in South
Africa‟s West Coast waters, and we will have to deal with it.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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Secondly, the mining activities at sea disturb the fishing
environment. It is a reality. I don‟t have a quick fix for that. I
think a partner in this programme could be Trans Hex who doesn‟t
have the magnitude of De Beers Consolidated Mines, not at all, but I
think a very important role player present in the southern ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon De Beer, do not forget
the time for supplementary questions is two minutes.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: House Chair,
during a meeting held until the early hours of the morning on
Tuesday, led by the capable Minister of Water Affairs in her office,
among the issues dealt with was the issue of mining in the ocean, as
it disturbed the laying of eggs by fish and thus resulted in stocks
being reduced.
We agreed with the Minister yesterday that our officials would meet
so that we can base our debates on science and avoid situations
where there is deep sea diamond mining or mining of any other
mineral – it affects agriculture. So, there is an agreement within
the Operation Phakisa forum.
Secondly, on the other issue in question, I had a meeting with the
Premier ...
27 OCTOBER 2016
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... in sy kantoor in Kimberley. Ons het gepraat ... [... in her
office in Kimberley. We spoke ...]
... and we agreed that what we are waiting for is documentation to
prove that this much work has been done worth that much. Funding is
available. Our intention is not only to look – I agree with you.
Coastal communities, in many instances, are just watching when they
see heavy vessels passing by, reaping and taking away what belongs
to them without any beneficiation to them.
Therefore, we have created a fund that will ensure that all four
coastal provinces ...
including the small-scale fisheries policy
that has just been created. It is to address the issues that you
raise. I agree with you.
Ek stem met u saam. Baie dankie. [I agree with you. Thank you very
much.]
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Chairperson, through you to the hon
Minister: You would agree with me that 65% of the fish caught is
from the Northern Cape. That is something to be applauded. With this
in mind, it should be creating many job opportunities for the people
of the Northern Cape, specifically Port Nolloth. I have cousins
living there. [Interjections.] May I be protected against the
disrespectful hon members?
27 OCTOBER 2016
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members! Hon members,
heckling is allowed, but you cannot drown out the speaker, resulting
in us not hearing the question. [Interjections.] Whatever you do, do
not drown out the question. We must get the question. The Minister
must get the question. [Interjections.] Hon Mpambo-Sibhukwana, I am
protecting you, but you are protecting yourself. [Laughter.] Order,
members!
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Thank you, Chairperson. My question to the
Minister is the following. Minister, why has your department not
invested more resources in this area to grow the crippled economy of
the Northern Cape by creating more jobs, as diamond mining ceased a
few years ago? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Chairperson,
the question asked by the hon De Beer, and, by his own admission,
the fact that our department has done more, if we did not put money
into agriculture and other activities, the situation would be very
bad.
Let me remind the hon member that, in fishing, you don‟t look at the
ocean and think there is fish. There is something called scientific
research, on the basis of which you can identify the fish species
and know the fishable quantity thereof. That is why, before we
allocate fishing rights, we rely on such information. I am not in a
position then to argue with you about whether there are 74 or what.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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According to my scientific records, the fishing stocks in the
Northern Cape have depleted, and that may be due to climatic
conditions, not only because of the issue of illegal fishing.
Remember, before we allocate fishing rights, there are international
institutions that decide what is fishable because fish is not like
cattle that can be kept in a kraal. Fish can swim anywhere in the
ocean. Then the quantities you fish are not determined by the
fishing country but by the global formation. [Interjections.]
[Applause.]
Mnu M KHAWULA: Sihlalo, ngoba indaba inokudoba kangaka namhlanje
mhlonishwa uNgqongqoshe, bengisafisa ukwazi laphaya kwi-coastal belt
eseningizimu yaKwazulu-Natali sinabadobi laphaya abangadinge
nokudayisa isikhathi esiningi, baphilisa imindeni yabo kodwa inkinga
yokuqala, bayahlukumezeka ngenxa yale mithetho yenu mhlonishwa.
Mhlawumbe okokuqala ukubacelela ukuthi basizakale ngokuthi bangathi
uma beziphilisa ngoba ... (Translation of isiZulu paragraph
follows.)
[Mr M KHAWULA: Chairperson, because the main point today is about
fishing, hon Minister, I would like to know about the coastal belt
in the southern KwaZulu- Natal where we have fishermen who don‟t
normally sell their catch but who are doing it to feed their
families, however their first problem is that they are harassed
27 OCTOBER 2016
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because of the laws hon Member. Maybe the first thing is to plead
for them so that they can be assisted because ...]
... they have been living like that for centuries.
Bayadoba abantu laphaya ko-Hibberdene, baphilisa imindeni yabo kodwa
okwesibili, i-coastal belt le eningizimu ya-Kwazulu-Natal ...
(Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[The people of Hibberdene live on fishing, they are taking care of
their families, but the second thing is that the coastal belt in the
southern KwaZulu-Natal ...]
... is very rich with crayfish. Will the department be prepared to
also come in and assist in terms of turning those subsistence
fishermen and -women into commercial people so that they can also,
in addition to subsistence, commercialise their catch from the ocean
that is adjacent to them? Thank you.
UMPHATHISWA WEZOLIMO, AMAHLATHI NEZOKULOBA: Mandibulele lungu
elihloniphekileyo ngalo mbuzo. Uya kukhumbula ukuba kwimpendulo yam
yokuqala ndiye ndathi, ... (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph
follows.)
27 OCTOBER 2016
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[The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Let me thank
you hon member for this question. You will remember that in my first
response I said, ...]
... the department has launched the small-scale fisheries policy.
Isizathu saloo nto ... [The reason for that ...]
... is to legitimise those fishermen and – women who were harassed
by Ezemvelo at some point, who have to run after fishing.
Chairperson ...
... andisayi kucela ukukhuselwa. [... I am not going to ask to be
protected.]
... I have said I cannot ... I will disregard some of the gestures.
The point I am driving is that, yes, I agree with you that there are
key fish species. As I have said earlier, each and every locality
will have different fish species with a difference in number. Why
have we done this thing?
We have observed painfully that these communities go and fish ...
... bayaloba, babambise unamvuna. Ixabiso ... [... they fish, they
catch crayfish. The price ...]
27 OCTOBER 2016
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... is set at R90, but the person who buys that same crayfish sells
it at R500 in Japan without any additional cost. I can assure you
that by March next year, each and every small-scale fisherman – when
I say fishermen, it is like in mining. I refer to both genders. We
have a right to fish. Yes, I agree with you. Small-scale fishermen
don‟t fish only to sell. They also fish for their own families. We
will make sure that in doing that, we make sure that the process is
sustainable and that we can speak of alternative sources of food
like in aquaculture.
So, we have been to the Eastern Cape. We are going to KwaZulu-Natal.
The key to all of this is to get the chiefs to agree, so that, in
respect of the land that they own, they will understand what is
happening. As we speak of people forming co-operatives, the aim is
to ensure that you don‟t only catch the fish, but also process it. I
will not now mention a province. When you do away with processing,
you are transporting jobs to other areas, and that kills the
economy. I do not want to be accused of only focusing on the Western
Cape, but fish processing creates more jobs than the jobs that you
create through fishing.
Mnu L B GAEHLER: Mphathiswa masiyibulele le nto yokunceda abalobi
abasakhasayo, noko wenze kakuhle kakhulu apha urhulumente.
Mphathiswa, into eqaphelekayo yeyokuba aba bantu bakhasayo bahlala
bekhasa abade bakhule. Kufuneka sivumelane kule nto yokuba imali
eninzi iphaya enzulwini yolwandle, ungene usebenzise isikhitshane,
27 OCTOBER 2016
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nawe kumele ukuba uyayazi loo nto leyo. Ingaba ninawo kusini na
amalungiselelo okuba nincede aba bantu banikwe izikhitshane zokuloba
phaya enzulwini yolwandle ukuze nabo bafane naba bakhulu? Ingaba
ikhona kusini na loo ndlela yokubanceda? Ukuba ngaba bayancedwa,
ngabaphi abangalufumaniyo olo ncedo? Isizathu sokuba ndibuze lo
mbuzo; kukuba ingathi uncedo lukweli cala kuphela. Ndikhe
ndayithetha le nto nakuMongameli, masiyekeni ukuziqhatha kuloo nto
leyo. Ukuba uya ngaphaya kooXhora, Mbhashe, Lusikisiki phaya
kooMbotyi, kunzima phaya kula malwandle.
Khawuyeke ukungxola sisi, ndinceda wena.
Ngoko ke, ncedo luni enibanika lona ukuze bangene enzulwini elwandle
bafane noo-Ocean View aba? Loo nto inganenza nani nizigombe izifuba,
xa sele niphumile apha, nithi noko ndakhe ndamkhulisa utata uKhawula
KwaZulu-Natala. Loluphi olu ncedo nilwenzayo? Enkosi.
UMPHATHISWA WEZOLIMO, AMAHLATHI NEZOKULOBA: Ohloniphekileyo
uGaehler, lo mbuzo ubuwubuze kuMongameli kwaye ndanqwenela
ukuwuphendula. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)
[Mr L B GAEHLER: Hon Minister let us thank you for helping the
small-scale fisheries, at least the government have done good here.
Hon Minister, what is noticeable is that the small-scale fisheries
stay small and they do not grow. We must agree on the issue that a
lot of money is to be made from fishing in the deep sea; you go and
27 OCTOBER 2016
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work with a boat - and you are supposed to know that. Do you have
plans in place in order to help these people by giving them boats so
that they can fish in the deep sea like the successful fishermen?
Are there any programmes in place to help them? If they are being
helped, how many are receiving this assistance? The reason that I
ask this question is because it seems as if help is at this side
only. I mentioned this issue to the President - , let us stop
deceiving ourselves in respect of this issue. If you go to Xhora,
Mbhashe, Lusikisiki and Mbotyi, you will see that it is difficult in
those seas.
Stop making a noise sister; I am helping you.
Therefore, what assistance are you giving them so that they could go
and fish in the deep sea and look like the Ocean View fishermen?
Having developed tata Khawula in Kwazulu-Natal is something that
will make you proud of yourselves when you stop governing. Which
assistance are you providing? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Hon Gaehler,
when you asked the President this question I wished I could answer
it then.]
I was willing to answer but, of course, it was not my time to
answer. I think where progress has been made, let us accept and
agree. We have just allowed Qolorha, Chwebeni, a former nonprofit
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organisation under the Minister of Water and Environmental Affair to
open for small-scale fishermen. As I speak, they benefit from that
process. There is already an identified aquaculture project in that
area, and we cannot claim that aquaculture is not big money, as you
claim.
If you are around Port Elizabeth, you will know very well that at
Hamburg, we have a Kob production aquaculture project that serves
Western Cape restaurants. I believe that, as a department, we are
committed. When I speak of this project, it is not limited to
fisheries. In the Eastern Cape, from Ncera to Port St Johns, there
is a plan to plant macadamia. There is a plan to improve macadamia
planting in Limpopo, Mpumalanga, and KwaZulu-Natal.
I can assure you that the department has done its research. We know
what we are speaking about. If you go to Mthatha, maybe in a year‟s
time, you would be able to fish with your own rod. We have done
work.
Uyabona ke ohloniphekileyo Gaehler, kuza kubanzima ukuba ndiyazi
eyelali yakho kuba andikwazi nokuba uhlala phi na. Kuza kubanzima
ukuba xa silapha kule Ndlu simele iilali zethu, kodwa ke
ungandikrwecela bucala undibonise ilali yakho. (Translation of
isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
27 OCTOBER 2016
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[Do you see hon Gaehler, it would be difficult for me to know the
situation in your village because I do not even know where you are
staying. It is difficult to represent only our villages while we are
in this House, but you can nudge me aside and show me your village.]
You may not know that something is being done, and you come here and
claim that nothing is being done. [Interjections.]
Mr L B GAEHLER: The question has not been answered, Chairperson.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members! Hon Khawula!
Mr L B GAEHLER: Yimani kancinci, umbuzo wam awuphendulwanga apha.
[Wait a bit, my question is not being answered here.]
My question was simple. What systems ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Khawula! Hon Gaehler! I
am sorry, hon Khawula. Hon Gaehler, please take your seat.
Mr L B GAEHLER: My question was not answered.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Please take your seat. I have
apologised to you, hon Khawula. I like you very much. That was the
fourth question asked by hon Gaehler. Let me take this opportunity
to thank the hon Zokwana. We are done with Agriculture, Forestry and
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Fisheries. Thank you, hon Zokwana, for availing yourself to answer
questions. We now come to the Minister of Environmental Affairs. I
invite the Minister to deal with Question 173, asked by hon
Labuschagne.
Marine granting phosphate prospecting rights
173.
Ms C Labuschagne (Western Cape: DA) asked the Minister of
Environmental Affairs:
What
role
granting
does
her
applications
department
for
play
marine
in
the
phosphate
process
of
prospecting
rights as they are processed by the Department of Mineral
Resources?
CO434E
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: House Chair, hon members, the
answer to Question 173 is as follows: All environmental related
aspects for mining applications are regulated through a one
environmental system, which I believe hon members are aware of. It
was passed and became applicable and implementable on 8 December
2014. The Minister of Environmental Affairs sets the regulatory
framework as far as it relates to prospecting, exploration, mining
or primary processing and the ancillary activities – underline the
word „regulatory framework.‟ This is currently in the National
Environment Management Act 1998, known as Nema, and its subordinate
legislation.
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The Minister of Mineral Resources implements the provisions of Nema
and the provisions of Mineral and Petroleum Resource Development
Act, that is, MPRDA, and its subordinate legislation. This includes
issuing or refusing environmental authorisation, issuing enforcement
directives and all other environmental management provisions as they
relate to prospecting, exploration, mining or primary processing and
ancillary activities.
The final end of the process is, if there is any appeal - it has
been agreed upon by the three Ministers, the Minister of Minerals,
Minister of Environmental Affairs and the Minister of Water and
Sanitation - the Minister of Environmental Affairs will deal with
the appeals for such decisions that have been made, in particular,
in this instance, by the Minister of Mineral Resources so that we
avoid the issue of a referee and player at the same time.
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Hon Chair to the hon Minister, in May this year in
your reply to my written question you indicated that your department
is concerned about the effects of bulk seabed mining on the ocean
ecosystems and that apart from the fact that such an impact will be
severe and expensive they would have knock-on effects on the
ecosystem food web. You further mentioned that there was an urgent
need for research before allowing bulk seabed mining including
scoping studies environmental impact assessments and possibly
modelling studies of the environmental effects on seabed mining.
Minister, the Department of Mineral Resources granted three marine
27 OCTOBER 2016
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phosphate prospecting rights that cover approximately 10% South
Africa‟s economic zone and overlap with South Africa‟s largest
fishing grounds and critically endanger ecosystems. Minister, how
are you going to ensure that the research you referred to in your
written answer to as well as the concerns that you stated as a your
department will be addressed before mining is going to be allowed on
these three licences.
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Chairperson, can I try
simplifying the processes that are involved in what is called
environmental impact assessment studies. It entails that the
environmental practitioner will study deeper, in detail the possible
and potential impact of any project when an application is made –
and I am saying thoroughly. This is one of the reasons why some of
the environmental impact assessments actually take that long.
After having taken time to actually study the report from the
environmental impact practitioner, EIP, that report will go to the
Minister – in this instance the Minister of Mineral Resources. What
is the difference between this report and the research, more or less
zilch? This is because what would be researched has an impact
directly as a separate research. You would also come to the same
conclusion when you do environmental impact assessment, find out
whether there is any potential impact.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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So in this instance there will be no need rather to actually say,
hey, wait lets go and do research first because the application has
been made. The same investigation will happen from the application.
So that is how we do this impact.
If there is anyway a need for a research it will be done elsewhere
and everywhere. So we are not able to say in any instance wait for
the research to be done, but the same research will be done as and
when the environmental impact assessment is done. That is a general
answer. Even on that phosphate, even on the exclusive economic zone,
EEZ, everywhere. It is actually a general approach how we do this
studies. Thank you.
Mr B G NTHEBE: Chair to the hon Minister, the principal question was
related to the role of your hardworking department. This is my
follow-up question: I think you are maintaining a delicate balance
between the pressing need to safeguard the fishing footprints but
also to safeguard the endangered ecosystem and the overall marine
protected areas. Does your role include ensuring compliance and
protection of environmental damage through proper environmental
management plan? Because I think there must be a clear distinction
between – and more often than not there is confusion – prospecting
rights and mining rights. And here we are talking about prospecting
rights. Thank you, Minister.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Chairperson, indeed it is a
fact. South Africa subscribes to the sustainable development that
consists of three pillars. Pillar number one to ensure that the
environment and all ecosystems are sustained and taken care of for
future generations as announced and pronounced in section 22 of our
Constitution.
The second pillar is to ensure that whatever is done on
environmental basis actually benefits the people. The third pillar
is to utilise our own natural resources for economic development.
Those pillars go together. Indeed I am confirming that through
sustainable development, our job in this department is to ensure
that there is always a delicate balance between these three pillars
which form the core of our policy and our approach in South Africa
and elsewhere.
Having said that I want to say that as we implement the
environmental sustainable development we also ensure that there are
always various instruments that we use. Amongst those is what the
hon member is referring to, the environmental management plans, the
environmental impact assessment, EIA‟s, the strategic environmental
assessment plans, that is, the SEA‟s, that are done overtime - just
for your scope – and we have the environmental management
frameworks. So, there are various tools that we use to ensure that
there is that delicate balance that is attained at all times. We do
it on land; we do it in the ocean space as well. Thank you.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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Management of coastal zones
148.
Mr M I Rayi (Eastern Cape: ANC) asked the Minister of
Environmental Affairs:
(a)
How
does
her
department
and
the
Department
of
Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries ensure that their goals
are not in conflict on management of the coastal zones
(details
furnished)
and
(b)
what
intergovernmental
structures are in place to resolve disputes in this regard?
CO405E
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS (Ms B E E Molewa): The
response to Question 148 is as follows; the Department of
Environmental Affairs and the Department of Agriculture Fishery and
Forestry have drafted, agreed and signed a memorandum of
understanding in 23010. It has actually been in implementation since
2010. This memorandum of understanding encourages that the
departments work together and share resources such as research
equipment and also making staff expertise available to one another.
Staff from both departments sits on joint working groups to advice
on policy issues such as the biodiversity working groups and fishery
scientific working groups which the hon Minister was referring to
earlier on that we do have those scientific studies.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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The Department of Agriculture Fishery and Forestry is a member of
the Deer Working Group 8 which is a formal structure for information
sharing and co-operation and joint policy discussions on ocean and
coastal matters are being discussed also there. This group
facilitates joint working and provides officials with a formal
platform to engage on any technical matter and also in areas of
potential conflicts. Similarly, the Department of Agriculture
Fisheries and Forestry is a member of the Deer National Marine
Spatial Planning Working Group and this is actually a very important
area of work that we are doing together, which is actually the
primary technical group that will be developing marine areas plans.
I just also elaborate a bit on this Marine Spatial Planning Working
Group. We are beginning to do in the oceans space a thorough
analysis of what is available and what is applicable where. There is
this information available but we are saying that special planning
must inform us where each one of us can actually and hire any
trajectory of development; whether it is mining, fishing or whatever
sorts of economic activity found in the ocean. So, this spatial plan
is similar to the one we do on land, however, now we are doing it in
the oceans space. We participate together there. To further also
promote co-operate and discussion on potential overlaps, the
Department of Environmental Affairs is also represented on the
Department of Agriculture‟s intergovernmental authorisations
committee for aquaculture. This committee facilitates the
aquaculture approval processes. This is how we actually co-operate
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and work together. That is what I have in response to that question.
Thank you Chairperson.
Mr M RAYI: Hon House Chair, I am happy with the reply. Thank you.
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Hon Chair, Hon Minister, thank you very much for
the answer, although we might have intergovernmental structures,
committees and work groups in place to resolve disputes as you well
explained. We have the Marine Spatial Planning Bill in the process,
as you‟ve mentioned and it is also made known in the select
committee in order to give more clarity. Do we have enough competent
environmental inspectors and practitioners to ensure compliance with
these environmental policies and laws on a transversal level?
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS (Ms B E E Molewa): This is a
new question however I will answer it because the question was about
co-operation. Yes, indeed we do have environmental inspectors. Let
me also say that now that we are speaking about the fishery,
forestry as well as the possibility of working in the ocean space, I
must say that in the environmental space we do have capacity from
the environmentalist inspectors. For now we think that they are
doing a good job and we will need to get more of them definitely but
they are doing a good job and they are able to reach out to all the
areas where they are needed to be.
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They are also working and are supported by a very able team from
water affairs referred to as the Blue Scorpions. Ours are called
Green Scorpions whilst those from the Department of Water and
Sanitation are called Blue Scorpions. Those are environmental
inspectorates that operational in that space and they are doing a
good job. Thank you.
Rhino protection programmes
169.
Mr M Khawula (KwaZulu-Natal: IFP) asked the Minister of
Environmental Affairs:
Whether
any
measures
are
being
considered
to
intensify
rhino protection programmes in the Hluhluwe Game Park in
KwaZulu-Natal
as
there
is
a
noticeable
trend
of
rhino
poachers moving away from the Kruger National Park (details
furnished); if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant
details?
CO430E
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS (Ms B E E Molewa): Hon House
Chair, the response to the question is as follows: The escalation of
rhino crime in KwaZulu-Natal and in particular in the Hluhluwe
Imfolozi Park was deliberated upon extensively after we noticed that
there is an increase on the KwaZulu-Natal‟s area on poaching. In
this regard the meeting was called recently and was chaired by the
SA Police Services and co-chaired by the Department of Environmental
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Affairs. The displacement of white rhino to KwaZulu-Natal was noted
and so was the need to access and allocate further resources to
KwaZulu-Natal area.
The SA Police Services commanders visited KwaZulu-Natal and
identified key strategic law enforcement areas and extra capacity
was deployed as from 1 October 2016. During 2016 two formal and some
more informal cross pollination exercises like trading and so forth,
training sessions were held and conducted between SanParks and KZN
Ezemvelo law Enforcement staff. The intensive protection zone, IPZ,
is a new way of doing things; identify a particular area in the
affected areas and ensuring that it is enjoying much focus. That
concept was deliberated upon and actually began to be established
for a fragmented park was actually to maintain the main focus for
such a fragmented park. Furthermore, intelligence, technology,
boundary, access control and area protection techniques were
covered.
Co-operation between the two entities was enhanced and the same
criminal networks are active in both areas we have actually
discovered and found out. The following additional measures to
identify rhino protection have been introduced in KwaZulu-Natal
including the Hluhluwe Imfolozi Park. These measures will be
extended to other parts of the country where rhino poaching is being
detected. In other words I am saying that if hon members are coming
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next week to ask the same question, those areas are North West and
Limpopo where there is a spike in rhino poaching.
The KwaZulu-Natal provincial executive committee has resolved to
setup a task team via the KwaZulu-Natal joint crime prevention
cluster to investigate possible actions to combat and refocus
efforts to tackle the increased poaching in rhino in KwaZulu-Natal.
This task team has a six month mandate to come up with the
recommendations to the provincial executive committee. That is what
the province is also doing over and above in support of the actions
that I referred to earlier on. The SA police Services through
Operation Rhino 7 has made extra capacity available and has
undertaken the responsibility of patrolling the R618. The
replacement of the Hluhluwe Imfolozi Park boundary fence has
commenced and smart fencing technology will be piloted on certain
sections. Wild Life product which is rhino horn and elephant ivory
detection dog has also been deployed in that area. Human resource
redeployment and recruitment plan has been developed and submitted
to the implementation and funding to address operational vacancies
that are needed and where they are needed.
Ezemvelo KZN is in the process of dehorning identified small
populations as we should. Observation towers have also been built
and funding has been allocated with an external project to fund the
capacity to carry out monitoring and surveillance. A command and
control facility has been initiated in the Hluhluwe Imfolozi Park
27 OCTOBER 2016
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similar to the one in the Kruger National Park. A helicopter is also
being based in Pila Imfolozi Game Reserve because we need that
together with the night operating equipments called as night vision
in the Hluhluwe Imfolozi operation staff. All the Hluhluwe Imfolozi
gates are now being monitored and have new monitoring systems in
place. I thank you.
Mr M KHAWULA: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, that‟s appreciated, in
KwaZulu Natal a rhino has a special place. The king of the Zulu‟s in
his praise names ...
... sithi ubhejane, ubhejane odla abakayise - bhejane phuma
esiqiwini kade bekuvalele.(King Goodwill Zwelithini Zulu‟s Praise
Poem.)
In KwaZulu-Natal we cannot allow the rhino to be extinguished. I
just want to say that you spoke of the stakeholder meeting and did
not mention amakhosi. Amakhosi are an important stakeholder in
Mkhanyakude because they are a partner and not just stakeholders in
the Hluhluwe Game Park. I just want to find out if there will be any
liaising with them because traditional authorities can assist in
curbing if there is proper liaising with amakhosi.
Secondly, there is another game park just outside of Ulundi, it is
called eMakhosini Valley. I just wanted to bring to the attention of
the Minister that maybe you also need to extend those services to
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that part also because you stop in this one part then they will
proceed to another part. EMakhosini Valley also has a small Game
Park but has rhino in it and there have been some instances of
poaching. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS (Ms B E E Molewa): May I
repeat that the meeting that I referred to was actually a meeting of
security apparatus and security officers and what I do know is that
they had to do this planning because it is high level security
planning. I understand exactly what actions they must make. That
meeting obviously was in a form of a mijoc, a mijoc is a mission
area joint operation command. So, it is those generals and whoever
was there. What follows is that in all instances we work with
amakhosi. It is not possible to exclude them and it is not possible
to exclude other people, for instance, when hon Members of
Parliament last year went to do a public awareness programme in that
area, we invited amakhosi and we all continue to invite them. We
invited the community and everyone in society was entrusted to
actually curb this rhino poaching. We will continue to invite them.
Thanks hon member for raising that question.
The area that you raised, I think, we will have to have a discussion
about it because if there is a spike in rhino poaching, we do
analysis and look at areas where it begins to raise its ugly head. I
did say earlier on that indeed the goal of KwaZulu-Natal, for us it
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is a rare spot and yes it does require attention. However, we will
definitely look at the valley that you referred to. Thank you.
Mr C HATTINGH: Hon Chair, noting that 14 poachers were arrested in
the Kruger National Park in the past week during a joint national
park police, defence force operation involving dogs, new technology,
high technology, experienced game rangers and it is all expensive.
My question is that it appears that these very successful approach,
and I must congratulate the department on this and its successes,
but it appears to be reactive. Now, we can learn about KwaZulu-Natal
with its successes in Kruger where poaching appears to have shifted.
Is there enough capacity to expand it to Madikwe, Pilanesberg and
other places? I know that the Minister anticipated this question,
and that she has answered it, however, I do not believe that it was
comprehensive. Is there sufficient funding and can we say that we
will also be seeing the same successes as we have seen in Kruger and
hopefully in KZN and in the other provinces?
The Minister stated that there is an increasing trend, can the
Minister perhaps reveal what are the trends and where do we see the
upward trends and also the downward trends where there are
successes.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, I am appealing
to all of you, let us not make a mistake. We have a original
27 OCTOBER 2016
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question and a follow-up question should always be linked to the
original one.
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS (Ms B E E Molewa): Hon House
Chair, I think that what the hon member is saying is that first of
all we seem to be reactive. No, not anymore, we may have been
reactive in 2008, 2009 and 2010 up until the time when we introduced
the integrated rhino management strategy we then became proactive as
well. So, all over we are being proactive, however, the level of
tightening security is a little different from one area to another
where we tighten seriously by putting dogs and everything else is
where we have identified those areas as intensive protection zone.
We do not apply our resources all over equally, we target areas
where there is high punching and the trajectory is high. This is how
we operate.
In KZN, for instance, we have detected that there has been an
increasing number of incursions just like in the Kruger National
Park. Our objective there is to proactively destabilise and disrupt
the incursions so that they do not kill our rhino. We do not point
at the rhino and run to a dead rhino, we stop them even before they
do anything. That is the kind of work that we are doing in the
intensive protection zones. I did say that we have a directive given
to the three additional provinces where, it does not mean that there
was no protection, there was but we need to intensify it so that we
stop the incursions there as well. It will not just be Madikwe and
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Pilanesberg, it will be also in the southern district of the North
West because in that part of the world we are also a bit under
attack. We indeed do these analyses and detections at all times. It
is a scientific work that we do look at that with our security
forces as well.
Yes, there will be that expansion. Is there funding? I must say that
we are very thankful to the very great men and women of our country
and elsewhere in the world who are actually continuously
contributing. The night visions that we have were donated to us by
other countries. Cars dogs and everything are some of the
contributions from many South Africans young and old, even children
at school have actually gone to raise funds at a school level to
raise funds to support us in these programmes. We are very grateful
for that and it is over and above the funding that comes from
government. We have actually ensured that close to about R2 billion
that is needed for us to fight this scourge, we do not only spend
that money from government alone but there are contributors as well
because poaching has been increasing. So, if it keeps on increasing
then it will be too difficult to spread these resources everywhere.
Thank you.
Mr E MAKUE: Hon Chair, hon Minister, you are exciting us by
indicating how much the people of our country care for the
environment and in particular for the tax against rhinos and
elephants. What you have done also is to make available a phone
27 OCTOBER 2016
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number, 0800 205 205. My first question is, do you find
[Interjections] ... we need to advertise to the public ...
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Makue, do not bother, you
are protected.
Mr E MAKUE: ... the public needs to know that they can phone 0800
205 205. My question to the Minister is do you find that there are
scores of people making use of that. The second part of my question
is the products such as horns and ivory is actually used outside of
the borders of South Africa, particularly in countries of the east.
Can the Minister give us an indication ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Members, we you have four
supplementary questions and you ...
Mr E MAKUE: It‟s one.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): NO, we are supposed to have
four and you are supposed to do one and not two. You have made your
question and the hon Minister has noted your question.
Mr E MAKUE: But ...
27 OCTOBER 2016
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): NO, you are taking a chance.
Thank you hon Makue, hon Minister you can continue.
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Hon House Chair, yes indeed
there are quite a number of people utilising the number and not only
this one by the way. The sometimes phone directly to the homes and
they phone almost everybody. They are utilising that number. This is
another way of ensuring that we actually use the multiplicity of
tools that we have in space to actually ensure that our people
utilise this. Even radio by the way, one of the callers in the radio
said to me one day, Minister can you please bring us a dummy of this
rhino horn so that we can see how it looks like because some of us
have never seen it, so that we can be able to detect it if people
come across in our areas to look for the horn. Thank you.
Ocean acidification
188.
Mr J W W Julius (Gauteng: DA) asked the Minister of
Environmental Affairs:
What plans does her department have in place to mitigate
ocean acidification that is linked to climate change?
CO452E
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Thank you, hon Chair. I
suppose this is the Question that is labelled 189 in my notes. The
answer is as follows. Ocean acidification ... Is it about that?
27 OCTOBER 2016
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES (Mr A J Nyambi): Yes.
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Acidification happens as a
result of the ocean absorbing excessive amounts of greenhouse gases
such as carbon dioxide, or other gases by the way, from the
atmosphere. Therefore, ocean acidification is as a direct
consequence of too much greenhouse gas emissions into the
atmosphere.
Mitigation measures implemented by the Department of Environmental
Affairs and other departments for limiting greenhouse gas emissions
into the atmosphere have been published and contained in a policy
document which we call the National Climate Change Response Policy.
If you look in that document you will notice that several
departments are co-operating. Transport, Land, the Minister‟s
department as well, Minerals, Water and Sanitation and so forth, all
have a space and a role that they play in that National Climate
Change Response Policy.
At the same time the department is also monitoring our surrounding
ocean to detect any sign of climate change-related ocean
acidification. However, to date we must say the following. There has
not been any evidence to support this occurring in our ocean space
... South Africa‟s space ... that is within our exclusive economic
zone, EEZ, ... 200 nautical miles. Of course there are excursions
27 OCTOBER 2016
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from time to time in our research vessels to actually test these
waters on a continuous basis.
Water quality-related mortalities of fish and other marine
bioregulatory ... occur regularly along the West Coast. I am adding
this information just to alert you to the fact that there are those
instances where we have these mortalities. A common one is where
oxygen levels in the water are reduced due to the overgrowth of
plankton, which is called red tide. A commercially important
species, which is West Coast lobster, is usually most severely
affected. It walks out of the ocean and dies on the beach.
Perhaps when hon members see these active events they then think
that this is as a result of greenhouse gases. It is an issue that is
related to the lack of oxygen or limited oxygen as a result of the
overgrowth of plankton.
Mr J W W JULIUS: Thank you, House Chair. The Minister ... Ocean
acidification is a real threat, especially to Operation Phakisa. I
do not fully agree that ocean acidification ... There have been
studies done that show we are in trouble, especially with regard to
Operation Phakisa and the threat of ocean acidification. This
Question was posed to the President on Tuesday in the National
Council of Provinces and he gave a totally different answer to
yours. So I don‟t know ... the co-operation between the department
and The Presidency.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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However, the first implementation phase of Operation Phakisa is led
by the Department of Environmental Affairs. So, I want to know what
the impact of ocean acidification on Operation Phakisa is going
forward. Are there studies ... more studies done? Will there be more
studies done and what is the impact on Operation Phakisa going
forward?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Minister,
even though it‟s introducing Operation Phakisa to the Question now
...
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: We can close our eyes ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES (Mr A J Nyambi): No, hon Minister,
you will respond.
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: ... or open them and imagine
that there was indeed acidification. I did say that it is not there.
So let‟s not even go to a question that wants to respond to ... or
attempt to answer a question that says what the impact of
acidification on Operation Phakisa is because I have already said
that it‟s not there. So there can‟t be an impact if it‟s not there.
The hon member says that he doesn‟t agree. There are studies that
... I would like to be given the code of that study. We work with
scientists who reveal studies. They place them before us. There is
27 OCTOBER 2016
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always ... They are actually even peer reviewed. We don‟t agree with
a study that is put by a scientist who calls himself or herself a
scientist, yet there is no peer review. It‟s only with post peer
reviewing that we then say this is a real study. So I would like to
see that study. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: COMMITTEES (Mr A J Nyambi): Thank you, hon
Minister. Hon Minister, with regard to Question 194 ... the member
is not in the House and an arrangement was not made. So the Rules
are very clear. It falls off. So it means we will go to Question 149
instead of 194 that might be in your schedule. So you go straight to
Question 149 from hon Prins.
Poached products
149.
Ms E Prins (Western Cape: ANC) asked the Minister of
Environmental Affairs:
What diplomatic efforts are in place to stem the flow of
products
poached
in
the
Southern
African
Development
Community countries (details furnished)?
CO406E
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: South Africa has a number of
bilateral arrangements with fellow Brics countries in relation to
illegal trade in wildlife products from the Southern African
Development Community, SADC, region. In particular, South Africa has
27 OCTOBER 2016
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signed two bilateral agreements with People‟s Republic of China that
includes specific cooperation agreements or rather arrangements
relating to illegal wildlife trade. In addition, South Africa has
signed a memorandum of understanding on biodiversity conservation
and protection with the Democratic Republic of Vietnam as well as
Cambodia.
In order for us to enhance cooperation with the governments of these
countries on biodiversity management, conservation and protection;
as well as on compliance with the Convention on International Trade
in Endangered Species of Wild and Flora, CITES, and other relevant
internationally binding conventions amongst others.
In terms of these cooperation agreements, relevant authorities
exchange information and experience on CITES enforcements, issues
pertaining to permits and compliance with the convention as well as
conducting joint operations on compliance with CITES permit
conditions – because, indeed, most often there are conditions.
The cooperation agreements also include elements aimed at increased
awareness of general public and mass media. Within the SADC region –
coming back home – South Africa has actively been cooperating
bilaterally with Mozambique to combat the scourge of poaching,
particularly in the Kruger National Park where we share fences. In
some instances, in those areas we‟ve actually lowered the fences to
create the peace park.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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As well as also in the illegal wildlife trade and we have in this
regard also signed a memorandum of understanding on biodiversity
conservation and management in April 2014. And the implementation
plan of this memorandum of understanding is also in place, we‟re
operating on it and successes are being registered.
In addition, South Africa is cooperating with other SADC countries
through the implementation of the SADC law enforcement and antipoaching strategy that is applicable and implementable from this
year, 2016, to 2021. We‟ll review once we get towards 2021; which
has an overall objective to significantly reduce the level of
poaching and illegal trade in wildlife Fauna and Flora, and enhance
law enforcement capacity in the SADC region by 2021. This strategy
includes cooperation in law enforcement and anti-poaching
initiatives which is in line with the provisions of the SADC
protocol on wildlife conservation law enforcement.
From an enforcement perspective, South Africa also works closely
with – what we call – IQUICK. It‟s an International Consortium on
Combating Wildlife Crime/Traffic which is made up of International
Criminal Police Organization, INTERPOL, the World Customs
Organization, WCO, the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime,
UNODC, the World Bank as well as the CITES secretariat. This
includes amongst others, participation in joint investigative
meetings and operations with INTERPOL, the UNODC and WCO; assistance
to CITES in relation to development of seizers reporting, documents
27 OCTOBER 2016
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guidelines for taking rhino DNA and implementation of CITES line or
task force activities.
Support to the World Bank Global Wildlife Programme and through the
implementation of the Global Environment Facility, GEF, United
Nations Environment Programme, UNEP, rhino programme that is also
focusing on South Africa, in particular, strengthening the
enforcement capabilities in South Africa as well as the strategic
engagement through INTERPOL Environmental Compliance and Enforcement
Committee and Wildlife Crime Working Group. Thank you, Chair.
Ms E PRINS: Thank you Minister for a very detailed response.
Minister, does the department have any data on the impact of such a
memorandum of understanding on the rate of poaching?
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Yes, indeed, we do pick up
data and we do record that data on poaching statistics. For
instance, we work with bodies like IQUICK which actually help us to
move into other countries where the South African law enforcement
agencies may not be able to go in. We do pick up data, we do pick
trends and we do follow through on anyone who may be poaching.
The recent example that I may give you of the follow through and
getting more data and recording is when South Africa was assisted to
get into the Czech Republic, where we actually never suspected that
there could be poachers coming from that area or even users; we were
27 OCTOBER 2016
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helped to get into those areas. Yes, we do have data, we do work
together, and we have various other research programmes that we find
in working in this cooperation. Thank you very much.
Mr C HATTINGH: Thanks for the comprehensive response. I would like
to know, with our poaching problem, as far as the ... can you hear
me? [Inaudible.]
Specifically with the transport frontier parts and taking into
account the agreements and memorandum of understandings that are
bilateral between governments, is there a provision made for hot
pursuit actions in cases of poaching, specifically focusing on our
trans-frontier parts with Botswana, Zimbabwe as well as Mozambique?
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Operation Hot Pursuit is a
matter that falls squarely within the law enforcement agencies. I do
know that they actually do do it in the Mozambican area because
there‟s cooperation between us and the law enforcement people in the
Mozambican side.
What makes this a little bit easier is the fact that there is ... in
the Limpopo Kruger National Park area up north, space where the
fences have been lowered, so it is not difficult to work together.
The law enforcement agencies do work together.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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If there‟s a need for not Operation Hot Pursuit being followed,
there‟s a close working relations where our law enforcement in South
Africa informs the other law enforcement in the Mozambican area to
follow through and follow those who are running away from us as
poachers. Those who are within the communities, the law enforcements
in Mozambique fortunately – I say very fortunately because we‟re
very happy about that – there‟s this great cooperation now, we do
not necessarily even need to follow through because the Mozambicans
themselves are arresting many of these poachers. The example that
you gave of 14 people who were arrested recently, they were coming
from that particular area, so they were arrested here and some were
arrested on the other side. They do call us to come and look at the
samples, the material or horns of whatever material that has been
found, we do look at that because we do data banking of the DNA. We
then link with our Pretoria University – I must say that even our
higher education and the academic world is actually participating
and helping us a great deal – the data banking of whatever DNA can
be sent to Pretoria University from anywhere in the corner of this
country, where it‟s found all you to do is to use the machinery and
send it for detection to see where it comes from. Thank you very
much.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon members, join me in
thanking the Minister of Environmental Affairs. That was the last
question, thank you hon Minister.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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We now come to the Minister of Mineral Resources, hon Zwane. Hon
Zwane, Question 196, in terms of our Rules, hon Vawda of the EFF is
not in the House and no arrangement was made, the question falls
off. Meaning from your schedule you‟re going to start with Question
163 from hon Rayi. I want you to be in order so that you don‟t make
a mistake and start with Question 196. We‟re starting with Question
163 from hon Rayi. Hon Zwane.
Offshore oil/gas exploration
163.
Mr M I Rayi (Eastern Cape: ANC) asked the Minister of Mineral
Resources:
(1)
How is the current international economic climate
influencing the timelines of Operation Phakisa
with regard to the offshore oil and gas
exploration;
(2)
whether
there
is
sufficient
interest
from
major
oil exploration companies to invest in the search
for oil and gas, in light of the continued low oil
prices and a global over-supply; if not, what is
the position in this regard; if so, what are the
relevant details?
CO421E
27 OCTOBER 2016
PAGE: 81 of 165
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Hon House Chair, Operation
Phakisa has set itself the target of achieving 30 exploration wells
offshore over the next 10 years as part of their ambitious effort to
increase exploration activity in South Africa. Most oil and gas
companies globally have reduced spending on exploration and
development because of the current international economic climate
influenced primarily by the slump in prices. South Africa is not
exempted from this challenge.
However, South Africa is still in a better position in that there is
still acquisition of seismic data by exploration companies that have
exploration rights, and that data will assist to fast-track
exploration. It must, however, be pointed out that, if the
international economic climate does not improve within the next two
years, South Africa may possibly not be able to achieve the target
it has set for itself.
Notwithstanding the prevailing low oil price environment, South
Africa continues to see major international oil and gas companies
obtaining exploration rights or participation interests in
exploration rights being granted to other companies.
Mr M RAYI: Hon House Chair, I wanted to check what role PetroSA can
play in this situation to invest in the search for oil and gas.
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: It will help us a lot in moving
this process forward. Although, as I‟ve already indicated, it alone
27 OCTOBER 2016
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will not assist the situation that much. We need to hope for the
better in terms of the climate changing and we need to ensure that
we continue to attract foreign investment.
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Hon Minister, is it not true that none of these
companies has yet allocated a significant budget for the development
of South African operations and will not do so until you address the
investment climate or conditions, of which legislative insecurity is
a key aspect, as the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development
Amendment Bill does not make provision for offshore oil and gas
explorations at the moment?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Minister, it is entirely
up to you. There is Question 196 and there is Question 163. The hon
member‟s question is not entirely linked to Question 163.
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Hon Chair, I rise on a point of order. Can I
repeat the question? I said: Is it not true that none of these
companies ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Labuschagne, I‟ve heard
the question. That is why I am giving the hon Minister the
opportunity. Hon Minister, it is entirely up to you.
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Well, I did not follow the
question well.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Labuschagne, you can
repeat your question.
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Thank you, Chair. Minister, is it not true that
none of these companies has not allocated the significant budget in
order to ... development ... South African operations ... yet, and,
will not continue or will not do so until the legislative framework
is secure and the legislative framework that I referred to is the
Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Amendment Bill, because
that does not make the provision for offshore oil and gas
explorations at the moment?
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Thank you for repeating the
question. I visited a number of countries these past few weeks and I
can say to the hon member that the interest is very high in terms of
investors coming to invest in South Africa at this level. The issue
of the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Amendment Bill is
being raised frequently and we should know how far it is.
I should also say that we are engaging with the Department of Energy
in terms of the aspect that the member has raised and we are
addressing it.
Mr J W W JULIUS: House Chair, I wish to say that the Minister must
not be afraid to answer questions here. He is mandated to answer. It
27 OCTOBER 2016
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is not the cabinet, but he is mandate to answer. But House Chair,
... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Order, hon members! Hon
Julius, please ask your supplementary question.
Mr J W W JULIUS: Hon Minister, South Africa is currently in the
process of ratifying the Paris Conference of the Parties, Cop, 21
agreement, like hon Sefaku said earlier before we started with the
Questions. This aims to reduce carbon emissions in order to fight
climate change in the world and locally. The aim is to reduce gas
and oil production in South Africa. The move is towards cleaner
energy because gas and oil production are some of the biggest
contributors of greenhouse gas emissions. Now, how does your
department plan to balance offshore oil and gas production against
the promises contemplated in the Paris agreement? Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr A J Nyambi): Hon Julius ... Hon Minister,
that is an entirely new question compared to the original question.
But it is entirely up to you to comment.
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Well, I do understand why the
member said I should not be afraid to answer. The President has
already said that the development of oil and gas will be a game
changer for our economy in South Africa. The department together
27 OCTOBER 2016
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with other departments is tasked to see to it that that happens. We
are busy setting up plans to ensure that that does happen.
The issues the member is raising in terms of the Paris Agreement ...
I guess, it would have been advantageous for him to raise them with
my colleague earlier on. Thank you.
Availability of licences issued
174. Ms C Labuschagne (Western Cape: DA) asked the Minister of
Mineral Resources:
How far is her department in the process of making all
licences
issued
to
be
available
automatically
public?
to
the
CO436E
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Chair, let me just correct a
small spelling error. The department is led by me, and I am “he” and
not “her”. In the Question it was asked: “How far is her
department?” Nevertheless, the reply is that we have developed an
online mining licensing application system, known as the SA Mineral
Resources Administration system, Samrad. That was done in 2011.
In response to addressing one of the binding constraints identified
in the mining sector strategy, Samrad sought to modernise the
regulatory framework to make it globally competitive. At the time of
27 OCTOBER 2016
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its development, the department was faced with challenges pertaining
to better management of the order of received and the processing of
applications.
The Samrad system was developed after an international comparative
analysis was done in Canada and Australia, amongst others, to look
at their electronic systems, and the outcomes were used to inform
the format of Samrad.
The modernisation of the system continues to be work in progress, so
that levels of transparency can be continuously improved. The
department has embarked on a process of developing an integrated IT
system, bringing together various platforms currently used for the
mining industry. These are being used in the development of an
integrated system.
Although information is available on the system currently, the
benefits of the integrated system would be an enhancement of the
ease with which information on the rights and permits will be
available.
The improved Samrad system would also provide information relating
to the commitment by the right holders, regarding the social and
labour plans being made public, as well as the annual reports.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Minister, thank you very much for giving feedback
on the Samrad system. I just want to say, when I put in the Question
to your department, I referred to you as a male and unfortunately,
there must have been a typo by the questions office because I know
that you are a man.
I am not so sure and I would like to have clarity. Is the Samrad
system the same system that you referred to earlier in this year
when you said that your department and the Department of Water and
Sanitation are making all licenses issued by your department
automatically available to the public? I would like to know whether
there is a link between the One Environmental System, the
application for licenses and the Samrad.
What is the reason you have not implemented this and is there a time
frame for implementing it? You referred to Samrad and I ask if there
is a link between Samrad and the One Environmental System, and the
automatic availability of the information to the public. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: In short, I should say that there
is no link. The Samrad system has to deal with our own system as the
department. The One Environmental System is a system where we are
easing the doing of business in South Africa by ensuring that we
integrate and shorten the processes which were normally taken for a
person to have a mining right.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: Hon House Chair, I just want to check with the
Minister whether we are winning in terms of giving our black people
mining rights in this sector? Can you say that we are on course in
terms of changing this sector and empowering black people?
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Well, let me take the Question.
One emphasis in the department is for us to ensure that we continue
on that trajectory. Much has been done in terms of empowering our
own people. There are challenges that we are dealing with. Just for
the member‟s information, we are currently reviewing the Mining
Charter to try and address issues that were challenges, but we are
on course. I am happy with the progress of transformation in this
regard.
Mr T C MOTLASHUPING: Thanks, hon Chair. Hon Minister, as a
democratic, accountable and transparent government ...
[Interjections.] ... You know, every time ... I like that the ANC
...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Please speak to the
microphone, hon Motlashuping.
Mr T C MOTLASHUPING: The ANC has brought about what many people are
shouting at, at the moment. However, the fact of the matter is that
my Question is related to the following. Is there any matter where
we can say ...
27 OCTOBER 2016
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Motlashuping, hon
Motlashuping?
Mr T C MOTLASHUPING: ... we are not transparent in terms of saying
to the South African society ... [Interjections.] ... as to the
number of people ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Motlashuping! Hon member
Motlashuping! Please listen to us when we are chairing. Hon Smit?
Mr C F B SMIT: Hon House Chair, the same member that does not
respect the Rules of this House just deliberately misled, not only
this House, but the public by saying that the ANC government is
accountable and transparent.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Okay, hon Smit that is not a
point of order. Continue hon Minister.
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Let me thank ... the Question and
emphasise that indeed we are accountable and transparent. As I have
indicated earlier, when it comes to Samrad the information in terms
of who gets a license, whether it be a prospecting right or a mining
right, is available on Samrad for perusal. The requirements for
South Africans and people who are interested in mining in South
Africa are there to be scrutinised by everybody. Thank you.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you, hon Minister. Hon
Motlashuping, please do not repeat what you just did now. When we
speak to you, you must listen.
Mr T C MOTLASHUPING: I apologise, hon Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you very much. The
last one will be hon Labuschagne. She is repeating herself because
we don‟t have other members. Over to you.
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Hon Minister, in your answer you referred to the
Samrad system as one of the reasons that it will improve the level
of transparency, which is a good reason. I would like to know
whether your department at this stage has knowledge of the impact
that this system has on transparency in your department, and would
you undertake to include the impact of the Samrad system in your
annual reports in future? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: It makes it easy for people who
want to do business with the department because sometimes you find
that somebody is interested in acquiring a right where there is
already a right existing. The availability of the information on our
system makes it easy for somebody to log in and to see if this right
can still be applied for or not.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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On the second issue as to whether I would consider putting this in a
annual report, if that is a need I do not foresee any problem in
doing so.
Productive/wealthy mines
170.
Mr M Khawula (KwaZulu-Natal: IFP) asked the Minister of Mineral
Resources:
(a)
What
are
the
names
of
the
top
ten
productive
and
wealthy mines in the country in respect of (i) diamond,
(ii) gold, (iii) coal and (iv) platinum, (b) which of these
mines are (i) foreign- or (ii) South African-owned and (c)
what
is
the
percentage
of
the
African
blacks
in
ownership of these mines?
the
CO431E
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Chair, the notion of productivity
is often looked at through the single prism of worker productivity.
However, it is our considered view that multifactor productivity
that spans a combination of factors such as efficiencies in
production, management, as well as investment and social returns,
are critical considerations in the determination of so-called
productive mines.
As you may be aware, South Africa has been ranked as the wealthiest
mining jurisdiction in the world in terms of non-energy commodities.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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This world has been quantified at a minimum estimated at
R50 000 trillion in reserves, exclusive of the geological potential
for discovery of new mineral resources and reserves.
It is for this reason that the democratic government, ably led by
the ANC, continues to progress the programme of the transformation
of the mining industry, with a particular focus on deracialising the
ownership of the industry consistent with the vision of building a
nonracial, nonsexist and normal society.
In respect of parts b and c of the Question, the department is not
in a position to comment on the ownership of the mines as the matter
of interpretation of the ownership element of the Mining Charter is
still sub judice. The Department of Mineral Resources and the
Chamber of Mines are, however, progressing well towards finalising
negotiations to settle out of court on the impeding declaratory
order.
Mr L B GAEHLER: Chair, transformation in the system is slow and is
limited to a select few. Those select few, unfortunately, are ANC
members, whether we like it or not. A few selected ANC cadres
benefit from transformation.
Now, the question is, what is the criteria used to select the
previously disadvantaged individual of the country to acquire mining
27 OCTOBER 2016
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rights, and what systems do you have in place to curb fronting in
this sector? Thank you. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mthimunye, why are you
on your feet?
Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: I rise on a point of order, hon House Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): What is the point of order?
Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: In his question, hon Gaehler makes the allegation
that rights are granted to a select few among whom he counts members
of the ANC. This is an allegation, but he records it as fact.
Firstly, I think that is misleading. Secondly, the ANC is not in
this House to respond to that allegation for itself. Thirdly, ANC
members are also South Africans, enjoying all the rights that other
South African enjoy. So they also have the right to apply for mining
rights.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mthimunye, I think yours
is not a point of order; it is a point of debate. Please continue,
hon Minister.
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Well, I do not encourage leaders
to pinpoint at South Africans based on their party affiliations,
because that is not going to help us to move forward. The fact of
27 OCTOBER 2016
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the matter is that the hon member that is represented by the hon
member who has asked a question ...
In my first presentation last year, the hon member asked me to go
and visit his area. I undertook that I would go there and assist the
hon member despite the fact that the hon member does not belong to
the party where I come from. Indeed, I went to that area and we both
assisted the community in that area without asking whether people
are members of a certain party.
So, the hon member knows that this department really works with
South Africans without asking their membership cards, moving forward
in assisting them.
Mechanisms that are put in place in ensuring that the previously
disadvantaged South Africans also benefit in this mining sector are
... We are talking to people in different provinces to educate them
about what we have, how they can apply, and to ensure that, when
they apply, we assist them in doing so.
We have been in a number of places in KwaZulu-Natal. We have been in
a number of places in Northern Cape. On 5 November, next week, we
will be talking to the traditional leaders in North West to ensure
that the people of South Africa have sufficient information in terms
of what they need to do in order to benefit in this department.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you, hon Minister. I
believe the hon Gaehler will deliver the message that the hon
Minister is helping everybody irrespective of their political
affiliation. [Interjection.] Hon Mthimunye?
Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: Hon Chair, I rise ... perhaps I am mistaken to say
on a point of order. I rise on a point of privilege. I want to place
on record that I am not satisfied with the ruling of the Chair on
the point order which I raised earlier. I shall subject the Chair‟s
ruling on my point of order to review, in terms of the Rules.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): You are welcome to do so,
hon member. Hon Smit?
Mr C F B SMIT: Hon House Chair, if the Minister can tell me what his
department‟s plan is to ensure that ownership distribution is not
limited to ANC politically connected elites such as Minister
Ramathlodi, his predecessor and Deputy President Ramaphosa, but that
it actually benefits ordinary black South Africans ...
[Interjections.]
Mr E MAKUE: I rise on a point of order. As member of the Ethics
Committee I know that hon Deputy President Ramaphosa does not hold
mining shares.
Mr C F B SMIT: Only buffalo shares!
27 OCTOBER 2016
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Mr E MAKUE: The member is misleading the public and he needs to
withdraw, Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Makue, I will check and
will come back with a ruling. Hon Dlamini?
Ms L C DLAMINI: Hon Chair, I rise on a point of order. Hon Deputy
President and Mr Ramathlodi are ordinary South Africans.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Dlamini, I will also
check on that one and come back with a ruling. [Interjections.] Hon
Minister?
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: I thought I had answered this
question. [Interjections.] But let me say to the hon member ...
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order, members!
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: ... the top ten richest
individuals in the mining sector unfortunately happen to be
everybody across mainly white South Africans. As a department, we do
not have a problem with that because those are the people ...
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order, hon Smit!
27 OCTOBER 2016
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The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: ... who have acquired this right
rightfully so. Going forward, I have said, hon member ...
Ms L C DLAMINI: She‟s responding to you! [Interjections.]
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: ... that the requirements are
there for all the South Africans to enjoy the benefit, irrespective
of where they come from. This notion of thinking that members of the
ANC are not South Africans is a wrong notion that we as leaders must
discourage and ensure that all of us in this House continue to build
a nonracial South Africa where all the people, including the ANC
members, will be treated fairly and the same as everyone else.
[Applause.]
One Environmental System
162.
Mr J P Parkies (Free State: ANC) asked the Minister of Mineral
Resources:
(1)
Whether his department has conducted any reviews on
the One Environmental System of permit applications;
if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details;
(2)
whether any statistics
rate
of
objections
(a)
to
are
approval,
decisions;
available
(b)
if
regarding
rejection
not,
why
and
not;
if
the
(c)
so,
27 OCTOBER 2016
PAGE: 98 of 165
what are the relevant details?
CO420E
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Thank you, House Chair. The
department is continuously reviewing the impact of the one
environmental system on all the applications. The fragmented nature
of the mining regulatory framework was previously highlighted as one
of the binding constraints to sustainable growth and competitiveness
of our mining and mineral sector.
To address this, measures were put in place to design and implement
a strategy aimed at achieving through integration without causing
disruption to the orderly and optimal exploitation of resources. The
introduction of the one environmental system resulted in the
integration of the mining authorisation, environmental authorisation
and water use licence within the mining industry.
The system has assisted in eliminating the duplicates processes that
generally caused huge delays and has also contributed to the
streamlining of new investments and they are significantly boosting
the ease of doing business in the mining sector. During the
implementation process the impact stringent requirement that have
affected the small scale miners thereby making it difficult for them
to can participate was identified.
The department will continue to work with its partners to address
implementation challenges that are being identified. All
27 OCTOBER 2016
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applications are lodged spontaneously in terms of the National
Environmental Management Act, NEMA, and Mineral and Petroleum
Resources Development Act, MPRDA. Applications for permits and
rights are lodged in terms of the Mineral and Petroleum Resources
Development Act for the purpose of adjudicating environmental
authorisation.
The process is triggered by an application for a right or a permit
which requires the applicant to submit specific environmental
reports. The rate of approval, rejection or objection depends on the
level of adherence to the legislation requirement by the applicants.
There is no provision for rejection of the environmental
authorisation in the legislation. Rejections can only be made with
the applications for rights or permits in terms of the Mineral and
Petroleum Resources Development Act. For example, if an application
is lodged in an area where there is an existing right, such
application will be rejected.
With the implementation of the one environmental system the
objections in terms of the National Environmental Management Act are
to be lodged with the Department of Environmental Affairs as the
Minister has said earlier on. There also objections provided for in
terms of the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act, which
objections are to be dealt with through the regional mining
development and environmental committee.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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Ms T MOTARA: Thank you, House Chair. Minister, when establishing the
one environmental system regulations relating to the residue
stockpiles and residue deposits as well as the regulations regarding
financial provisions for rehabilitation were not yet finalised. This
meant that the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act
regulations remained in force. Have these regulations been finalised
and addressed in the soon to be concluded Mineral and Petroleum
Resources Development Act Amendment Bill? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Well thank you for the question.
Yes, the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act will be
addressing these challenges that you have raised, not only that, in
fact as I have said we are working with the Department of
Environmental Affairs in helping small-scale farmers when it comes
to issues of finances, as that was identified as a challenge.
Mr J W W JULIUS: I thought it is not yet the time for follow ups
now.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: (Ms M C Dikgale): Oh please! Come back to the
House, sir.
Mr J W W JULIUS: My apologies. Hon Minister, one of the goals of the
environmental system is to speed up the process of licensing. Now,
feedback given by the Minister to written question on the 09
September 2016 indicated a slow down from 185 licences in the 2013-
27 OCTOBER 2016
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14 financial years to 142 in 2015, and only 55 licences between
April and August in 2016. Now, what are the reasons for the slow
down? I know there is a challenge but what are the reasons for it?
Thank you.
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Thank you for the question, hon
member. We do process applications on the basis of applicants
applying. That is the first reason. The numbers of applications are
always determined amongst other issues by how many people are
applying. The system we are talking about was to try and reduce the
time taken by an applicant before the applicant can actually have
the right to mine.
It was never an indication of a deterrent for people not to apply. I
may not be able to say precisely - currently now hon member, as to
what are reasons that has actually slowed down the interest. I‟m
sure the issue of the commodity prices will also feature highly on
this matter as the cause of why the applications have been reduced.
Thank you.
Amendment of departmental manual
175. Ms C Labuschagne (Western Cape: DA) asked the Minister of
Mineral Resources:
Whether he will amend the departmental manual in respect of
27 OCTOBER 2016
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the Promotion of Access to Information Act, 2000 (Act 2 of
2000),
in
rights,
order
(b)
mine
to
include
and
(a)
mining
prospecting
works
and
prospecting
programmes,
(c)
environmental authorisations, (d) social and labour plans,
(e) environmental management programmes and plans, (f) the
detailed
applications
for
all
the
rights
and
licences
listed above and (g) compliance inspection reports, audit
reports and monitoring data in respect of compliance with
the conditions of these licences?
CO437E
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: House Chair, the above categories
are already covered by the current manual. However, subsequent to
various inputs from stakeholders, it is envisaged that the
conditions for and manner of access to categories of information
referred to in paragraphs A to E will undergo a review through the
amendment of the Act.
The information referred to in paragraph F, may in many instances
require the submission of a request for records in terms of the Act
as such information is likely to contain protected information of
third party. Thank you.
Ms C LABUSCHAGNE: Chairperson, Minister, you said that some of these
records are already available. Those that are not available, A to E,
I would like to know the timeframe and the system in place for the
Minister to furnish these documents. I also want to know that
27 OCTOBER 2016
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Minister is aware that the Department of Environmental Affairs and
the Department of Water and Sanitation announced that they will be
making all licenses issued by those departments automatically will
be available to the public without the process of asking permission
to do so. What is the reason that your department doesn‟t want to do
that?
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Well, the Act stipulates that the
information identified in this question and the categories of
records from A to B below are automatically and voluntarily
available, as you are saying, to specific categories of persons
without having to apply in terms of this Act. Those persons are
landowners, lawful occupiers and other interested or affected
parties. For any other request, the following will apply:
The mining and prospecting right including mine and prospecting
works programmes; and Registered prospecting and mining rights are
automatically available for the public from the mineral and
petroleum titles Registration Office. However, this will exclude the
annexed prospecting work programmes and mining work programmes which
may contain commercial or financial information. These documents
have to be applied for in terms of the Act.
As we engage with my colleagues, because we meet and engage on these
issues, we will be able to synchronise this process so that there is
27 OCTOBER 2016
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harmony and we act in sync in terms of what the Act says.
[Applause.]
Illegal evictions from farms
158.
Mr O J Sefako (North West: ANC) asked the Minister of Rural
Development and Land Reform:
What actions has his department taken to ensure that the
legislation
aimed
at
preventing
illegal
evictions
lawfully enforced (details furnished)?
are
CO416E
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM:
Chairperson, the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform has
established a panel of lawyers and mediators under the auspices of
the Land Right Management Facility to assist the occupiers who are
facing both legal and illegal eviction. The role of the mediators is
to mediate disputes between occupiers and land owners and the role
of the lawyers is to represent occupiers who are facing eviction in
court. Thank you very much.
Mr O J SEFAKO: Thank you very much, hon House Chair and hon Deputy
Minister. Deputy Minister, I think you will agree with me that
illegal eviction is a historical fact where the evictees happen to
be black workers and black dwellers. Under the new dispensation the
question would be, what is it that is done by the department to
27 OCTOBER 2016
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create advocacy or awareness to make the evictees aware of their
legal rights or where they can even get assistance? Secondly, what
resources are there to address such activities? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM: Thank you
very much for the follow up question. Of course, I agree that
illegal eviction is historic as you have mentioned. Firstly, what we
have done as the department as part of the awareness is that we have
informed all the municipalities and ward councillors about the toll
free number that we have, which is 0800 007 095. They all need to
have that number so that they can contact us. When they contact us
we will transfer the case to the panel of lawyers that we have.
Secondly, we are also having resources that we will put aside in
terms of the amendment Act of the Extension of Security of Tenure
Amendment Bill that has been tabled in the National Assembly last
year in September. The passing of that particular legislation will
enable us to set aside a grant which will be utilised for this
people who are evicted illegally for them to get accommodation. I
thank you.
Mr C F B SMIT: Hon House Chair, just for correction I am hon Smit,
without an „h‟.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Smit, my apology.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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Mr C F B SMIT: Hon House Chair, I would like to know from the hon
Minister, what is her department doing to afford different
stakeholders such as farm workers, farm owners and farm dwellers
access to courts over and above the land rights management unit?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM:
Chairperson, I have indicated that we have appointed a panel of
lawyers. These lawyers are the ones that are helping farm dwellers,
farm workers and also everyone who is affected by these evictions
because we are quite aware that these are poor people and they don‟t
have money to go to court. On their behalf our panel of lawyers go
to court and represent them. We are not representing farm owners
because these are the perpetrators. Thank you.
Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: Madam Chairperson, I just want to ask the
Minister in terms of the official number of illegal evictions in
each province; and what is the department doing to afford the
different stakeholders their rights when we look at the illegal
occupations in terms of that as well? The question is: how can we
prevent that? Thank you, Minister.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM:
Chairperson, well, this is a new question. I don‟t have the numbers
presently, but we have the database in our department. What we are
doing now is that we are looking forward to the passing of this
amendment Bill so that we can implement it fully as it has lots of
27 OCTOBER 2016
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resources and lots of actions that we need to undertake under that
particular amendment Bill. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Engel Brecht, you can
submit your question in writing so that they can give you the
statistics.
Mr T C MOTLASHUPING: House Chair, it is indeed correct that the
question of evictions is very historic and it relates to land
dispossession. Now, if people are dispossessed of the land where
they belonged to for some time it becomes very hurting and it
becomes very emotional. What is the department doing because African
people were dispossessed of their land, and over and above that, you
have never heard of any black farmer who has evicted tenants or
whoever lives in the farm? It has only happened to the opposite.
What is the department doing in terms of the reinstatement of people
to their original land? Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Motlashuping, let me
check with you. You said you never heard of any black farmers being
evicted, but it happened to the opposite.
Mr T C MOTLASHUPING: I am saying there has never been a black farmer
who has ever evicted the tenants in his farm, but the opposite is
true.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM:
Chairperson, as I said that we also have mediators ...
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Minister, there is a
member standing. Hon Julius!
Mr J W W JULIUS: House Chair, I am rising on a point of order. Hon
Motlapetsing is actually misleading the House. There are no facts to
that.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): ... Motlashuping, not
Motlametsing, Motlashuping.
Mr J W W JULIUS: Oh! Sorry, I apologise, hon member. But where are
the facts? You can‟t read facts from the back of a choppy paper and
come and mention it in the House. There are no facts to state that unless he can provide the facts then he can say that. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Okay, hon Julius. Let us
allow the hon Minister to respond to the question because indeed
that is not a point of order.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM:
Chairperson, in the department, as I have said, we also have
mediators who are mediating disputes between the farm owners and
27 OCTOBER 2016
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farm dwellers and farm workers. Out of their report they will
recommend to us what we should do as you are quite aware that we
have a programme that is called Proactive Land Acquisition. So, we
rather buy land and transfer it to the farm workers and farm
dwellers as they have accumulated their status. Thank you.
Initiated rural development projects
172. Mr M Khawula (KwaZulu-Natal: IFP) asked the Minister of
Rural Development and Land Reform:
Whether
any
initiated,
rural
(b)
development
implemented
and
projects
(c)
have
monitored
been
(a)
by
his
department in KwaZulu-Natal since the start of the current
administration in 2014; if not, why not; if so, what are
the relevant details?
CO433E
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM (Ms K C
Mashego-Dlamini): Hon Chairperson, the question is a three-part
question and in all the three parts; it is whether we have
initiated, implemented and monitored the departmental programmes in
KwaZulu-Natal? The answer is yes, yes and yes and I have a list of
208 projects that we are monitoring, implementing and that we have
initiated. I do not know whether can I read all of them or can I
hand them over to a person that is standing on behalf of the member?
27 OCTOBER 2016
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Minister, you are
welcomed to do whatever you want to do. You are welcomed. Hon
Gaehler, do you have a follow up question?
Mr L B GAEHLER: Hon Deputy Minister, one of the projects is the
Makhathini Flats projects in KwaZulu-Natal. It is a project that was
done prior 2014, whereby government has invested a lot of money in
and it is a project that is not sustainable. The question therefore
is: Because this project is a white elephant and not sustainable,
what are the plans of the department regarding it? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM (Ms K C
Mashego-Dlamini): Well, I am not sure that the Makhathini Flat
project in KwaZulu-Natal province is not sustainable, but we have
invested money in that project. The Minister visited the project,
the Deputy Minister Skwatsha also visited the project and there are
systems that are put in place to help our community really to be
productive through that project. It is not that it is defunct; it is
functional, but not profitable. So we are helping them, together
with the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries, to
structure the business case in that particular project. Thank you.
Mr A S SINGH: Hon Chair, I appreciate the answers from the Deputy
Minister, however I would like to know hon Deputy Minister as to how
many people are permanently employed as a result of these projects?
27 OCTOBER 2016
PAGE: 111 of 165
If she has the figures here, she can give them to us. If she does
not have them, then she can write to us.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM (Ms K C
Mashego-Dlamini): Well, definitely I do not have the figures as to
how many people but the projects, as I have them here, are about
208. And most of the projects - about 99% - are corporative that can
incorporate more than five people. However, I do not have the
figures now as it is upfront, but I think they can be calculated.
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you very much. The hon
member can also do like wise and submit in writing if ever you still
need the numbers of those people.
Linkages created
160.
Mr M I Rayi (Eastern Cape: ANC) asked the Minister of Rural
Development and Land Reform:
What
linkages
has
his
department
Agri-Villages and Operation Phakisa?
created
between
the
CO418E
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM (Ms K C
Mashego-Dlamini): Chairperson, the Department of Rural Development
and Land Reform has been providing input on a regular basis on the
27 OCTOBER 2016
PAGE: 112 of 165
Agriculture, Rural Development and Land Reform for Phakisa, which
has currently started. So, we cannot really be sure now that we will
have a link with the Agri-villages on our Phakisa because the
Phakisa of Agriculture and Land Reform is not yet approved by
Cabinet. So, it is still in an early stage. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Rayi, do you have a
follow up question?
Mr M RAYI: I accept the response but I just wanted to check further
if there are any linkages then between Agri-parks and Agri-villages,
and if any, how are the linkages operating?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM (Ms K C
Mashego-Dlamini): Can I just unpack the Agri-villages? Agri-villages
are these communities that we have built in farms. We have two in
Mpumalanga and one in the Eastern Cape that we have established as a
department. We supports them with regard to agricultural issues. We
create grazing land for some of them - communal grazing because they
are Agri-villages, and they are also farming. These are the people
that, as part of the Agri-parks, are the ones and because they are
only subsistence. They are not smallholder farmers. But in their
subsistence, where they are farming, if they need to be upgraded
then they can be upgraded and be given farms so that they become
smallholder farmers and supply the Agri-park. Thank you.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Smith, your hand was up.
Mr C F B SMIT: Smit.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Oh, hon Smit.
Mr C F B SMIT: Hon House Chair, I will remind you until you
remember. Hon Chair, I would like to know from the Deputy Minister,
are there any initiative or intensive infrastructure investment
plans on the table currently to ensure that South Africa capitalise
on Transnet‟s railway network to connect all the Agri-parks and
Agri-villages and other industries and mines in order to stimulate
the economy and create job opportunities? It is a co-operative
governance issue because it is going to be all over but that is
necessary for rural development.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM (Ms K C
Mashego-Dlamini): Hon Smit, we have created an Agri-village where we
have built houses, trends their homestead and their grazing land,
built holding facility for animal handling, the deep tanks, built
bridges, built boarding schools, built community halls, built street
lights, solar lights and built solar geysers. So, this is a village.
So, when you look at this village as against the Agri-Park, as AgriPark, where everybody who is farming will send the products to for
it to be sold. They still have a chance, but you can‟t build an
27 OCTOBER 2016
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abattoir, for example, for an Agri-village as a smaller village. But
you can build an abattoir for a community in a municipality so that
the slaughter would be professional and they can supply the Agripark. So, Agri-park and an Agri-village are two different things.
Mr C F B SMIT: On a point of order. Hon Chair, I am standing on a
point of order. The hon Minister either didn‟t understand my
question or didn‟t answer it because I specifically asked related to
rail infrastructure to link up with these different entities.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Smit, that is not a
point of order. It‟s not a point of order. What you are supposed to
say was that, can the hon Minister answer that part because you
raised it and she did not ... Hon Minister, let me give you a
chance, mom.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM (Ms K C
Mashego-Dlamin): Well, within an Agri-park operation, there will be
transport logistic. But as it stands now, I can‟t say that there
will be rail there, there will be trucks there, and there will be
whatever there. So, the Agri-park is still in process, but in the
plan, the whole plan of the Agri-park, all these logistic things
will be put in the paper. Thank you very much.
Mr L B GAEHLER: Minister, thank you for your answer. I agree with
you that the Agri-villages will stimulate the economy of the
27 OCTOBER 2016
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different places. Agri-village will stimulate the Agri-Parks. I
think that‟s what we are saying.
Because one of the Agri-parks is in the OR Tambo region in the
Eastern Cape, when will that Agri-park be built, and as far as the
Agri-villages are concerned to stimulate the economy in that area
because it depends on agriculture, how many Agri-villages are to be
built in those areas, and if any, will there be any important ones
because this is a citrus area? If you don‟t have the answers
Minister, you can always give me in writing.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Please, allow the hon
Minister to respond.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM (Ms K C
Mashego-Dlamini): I just want to explain a village in a rural area
and an Agri-village. An Agri-village is in a farmstead. A normal
village are under the traditional leadership. What we have in our
rural communities is not the same as the Agri-parks. So, we are not
going to create that village to be an Agri-park because the Agrivillage is always established in farms. The farms that we are buying
for the farm dwellers and the farm workers, that is where we create
the Agri-village.
In the villages where there is traditional leadership, the
traditional leadership will allocate land to their own citizens in
27 OCTOBER 2016
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that area for them to produce food. While they have the land then
our department and the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and
Fisheries will support them in terms of mechanising what they are
supposed to do so that they produce food for their livelihood and
also food that they can sell and deliver to the Agri-park. So, these
are the two issues. So, Agri-villages cannot be established under
the traditional leadership area.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon members, I am going to
request the members to respect our Ministers. If ever you put on
your follow up question, please allow the Minister to respond. If it
is a new question, it does not link to the one that the hon member
asked, then, the hon Minister will refer you to submit your question
in writing. Thank you very much ... I can see the hon member is
agreeing ... Okay, hon Mthimunye!
Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: I think some members are really abusing their
privileges. They know for the fact that in terms of the Rules, you
can‟t raise a question whose response requires statistics.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Mthimunye, please that
is not a point of order. If ever the hon Minister does not have the
statistics, she will always refer the question. So, normally if ever
the Minister has some responses, she would do that. Let‟s allow the
House to run, hon members. The hon member, Gaehler, do you want to
withdraw?
27 OCTOBER 2016
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Mr L B GAEHLER: On a point of order!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): What is the point of order?
Mr L B GAEHLER: We have a Whip here. Hon Mthimunye is not a Chief
Whip.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): You see you are out of
order, hon Gaehler. The hon Mthimunye is a Whip in his capacity as
the Whip of his province.
Industry/mining developments
189.
Mr C F B Smit (Limpopo: DA) asked the Minister of Rural
Development and Land Reform:
What is his department‟s plan to capitalise on industry
and mining developments in Limpopo?
CO453E
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM (Ms K C
Mashego-Dlamini): Thank you very much, Chairperson. The Department
of Rural Development and Land Reform does not have a plan to
capitalise on or to give recap on mining developments. We only give
recap to smallholder farmers. Mostly ... 90% of the recap goes to
state farms that have been leased out to our communities and also
those who will be producing for the agripark.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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Mr C F B SMIT: Hon House Chairperson, can the hon Deputy Minister
please tell me, with regard to the richest platinum reef discovered
in Mogalakwena with various other minerals, will her department
initiate a strategic plan to develop rail, road and other
infrastructure to stimulate the rural economy towards sustainable
rural development that will contribute towards small business
development and entrepreneurship in Mogalakwena and beyond?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM (Ms K C
Mashego-Dlamini): No.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you very much. That
was short and precise. Hon member Wana, I saw your hand up.
Ms T WANA: Sorry, Chairperson. I wanted to correct ...
... la Smit wakho. [... that Smit of yours.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): You are allowed to correct.
Ms T WANA: Mr Smit ... [Inaudible.] ... we are making a follow up
there‟s no need to create a new Question so that we are confused.
You are confusing the whole topic because the Deputy Minister ...
[Interjections.]
27 OCTOBER 2016
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M K Dikgale): Okay, hon Wana. Can I rule
on the point of order that hon Wana raised? Hon Wana, that is not a
point of order, ma. It is all in the hands of the hon Deputy
Minister as to whether she is ready to respond to the Question, and
indeed she did that. Thank you very much. Hon Smit?
Mr C F B SMIT: Thank you, hon House Chair. Can you please remind the
hon member that the Rules of the House do not allow her to address
me directly but through you?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you, hon Smit. Hon
member Wana, next time address the hon Smit through the Chair of the
House and not directly. We are now moving on to Question 159 asked
by the hon member Nyambi. Over to you, hon Deputy Minister.
Feasibility study on rural development
159. Mr A J Nyambi (Mpumalanga: ANC) asked the Minister of
Rural Development and Land Reform:
Whether his department or any organ of state has conducted
a
feasibility
development
study
against
on
the
the
massive
investment
background
of
in
rural
rural-urban
migration; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant
details?
CO417E
27 OCTOBER 2016
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM (Ms K C
Mashego-Dlamini): Thank you very much, Chairperson. Yes, this is
work in progress. A situational and gap analysis was completed on
all government stakeholders that are nested within the national,
provincial and local, both the district municipalities and the
metropolitan municipality‟s spheres of government with rural
development mandates; because our responsibility is rural
development.
This includes summative analysis on their priority programmes,
associated with budgetary details and target beneficiaries. It
further evaluates the level of intergovernmental collaboration
involved in the implementation of the rural development mandates, as
you are quite aware that as a department we also co-ordinate all
spheres of government in South Africa and all national departments
which has a dealing of service delivery in the rural areas.
Its successes and shortcomings and possible areas of duplication and
fragmentation of mandates and programmes related to rural
development. So, our responsibility as we co-ordinate is to make
sure that we don‟t do duplication so that every area must be touched
by government.
The Department of Rural Development and Land Reform is in the
process of overlaying this information with census, household
profiling and community survey results to then map investment or
27 OCTOBER 2016
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lack thereof versus population decline or increase in rural spaces
as well as the proximity of such investments in relation to the
Agri-parks programme. This forms part of the Socioeconomic Impact
Assessment Study for a rural development agency.
The department has recently completed the rural norms and standards
which are guidelines for the provision of social services
infrastructure. The tool developed assists in targeting growing
areas for investment. You are quite aware that as a department we
have got a section which deals with rural enterprise and industrial
development. This is how we come in and create those rural
businesses in our rural communities and rural industries so that
people can come back and participate in their economy in those rural
spaces. Thank you.
Mr A J NYAMBI: Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo. Akusiko kutsi ngumbuto
lolandzelako kepha kubonga nje lemphendvulo lesiyitfolako, nekusho
kutsi singakujabulela tsine lesilapha kuleNdlu Yemkhandlu Wetifundza
Tavelonkhe kutsi sitfole lolucwaningo kuze sitewukhona kulusebentisa
nasesihlangene nebantfu lesibemele le emakhaya batekuva kutsi
lelitiko selihambe kanganani, nekutsi bona njengebantfu basemakhaya
abakasaleli emuva. Lisekela Lendvuna, sitakujabulela lokutsi
silutfole lolucwaningo khona sitekwati kulusebentisa ekomitini
nasesihlangene nelitiko. Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo. (Translation of
Siswati paragraph follows.)
27 OCTOBER 2016
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[Mr A J NYAMBI: Thank, Chairperson. It is not a follow-up question
but a gratitude for the answer we have received, and also to say
that all of us here in this House of the National Council of
Provinces we can be pleased to get the research report so that we
may use it when we meet with those we are representing back home, so
that they get to know how far the department has progressed, and
that them as rural people they are not that far behind. Deputy
Minister, getting the research report will be much appreciated
because we will be able to use it in the committee meeting with the
department. Thank you, Chairperson.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you very much, hon
Nyambi.
Mma, ka segagešo re re tša etwa ke ye tshadi pele di nwa maswi ao a
hlabošago. O kgonne go araba dipotšišo tšeo maloko ao a bego a di
botšiša mo ... (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)
[Madam, in my culture we say women are dedicated and successful
leaders. You nailed it in all your responses to the questions raised
by members, ...]
... and we are really thankful.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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That was the last question, because I don‟t see an indication of hon
members for a follow-up question. You deserve a serious round of
applause. Please, hon members. [Applause.]
Thank you very much, madam. Please prepare yourself like you did
today even when we invite you in future. What I have seen is that
it‟s in your knowledge. Thank you very much.
Marketing/skills development strategies
153. Ms M C Dikgale (Limpopo: ANC) asked the Minister of Tourism:
Whether his department has any (a) marketing and (b) skills
development
strategies
to
strengthen
and
sustain
the
tourism sector which is viewed by the Government through
the
National
Development
Plan
as
one
of
the
important
economic drivers in the country; if not, why not; if so,
what are the relevant details?
CO411E
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: Hon Chairperson and members, South African
Tourism is the entity with a mandate to market tourism in the
country, both internationally and domestically. It has a tourism
marketing strategy whose implementation and partnership with the
industry, travel trade, other government departments and
stakeholders have seen increased growth in numbers of international
tourists, revenue generated and contribution to the gross domestic
27 OCTOBER 2016
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product, in pursuit of the goals of the National Tourism Sector
Strategy and the National Development Plan.
Briefly, the overall tourism marketing approach is premised on the
following.
Firstly, investing in selected markets for leisure tourism and
decision centres for business events, to deliver volume and value in
order to contribute to the South African economy by increasing the
number of travellers into and within South Africa.
Secondly, engaging stakeholders and partners to deliver quality
visitor experiences that reaffirm the brand promise, by revamping
the value proposition of tourism grading.
Thirdly, convincing potential visitors that South Africa can be
trusted to deliver memorable experiences and successful business
events by building positive awareness of the South African
experience.
Fourthly, engaging the distribution channel to promote South Africa,
in order to grow tourism.
Furthermore, in recognition of the domestic tourism market factors
and the need to strengthen performance in this regard, the
department is also reviewing the domestic tourism strategy with a
27 OCTOBER 2016
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view to effectively position domestic tourism as the backbone of our
tourism economy, as is the case in many countries across the world.
With regard to the second part of the question on the skills
development strategy, very briefly, the Department of Tourism
developed a tourism human resource development strategy in 2008,
which was informed by a sector skills audit, also conducted in 2008.
The department, working in partnership with the Sector Education and
Training Authorities, which falls under the Department of Higher
Education and the industry, is currently reviewing the sector skills
audit and revising the tourism human resources development strategy.
The overall outcome of this process will be a revised skills audit
report and a tourism human resource development strategy with an
implementation plan and a monitoring and evaluation framework. These
documents will guide the planning and implementation of human
resource development initiatives in the tourism sector, starting in
2017.
Ms L L ZWANE: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, thank you for the
response. However, one would like to make a follow-up question. Yes,
indeed, tourism is a very important economic driver. However, your
strategies need to also reach municipal areas. Let me cite one
example in KwaZulu-Natal. Ray Nkonyeni municipal area is a very
popular tourist destination. The blue flag beaches are attracting
tourists to those areas. However, we have tourism activities in the
27 OCTOBER 2016
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hinterland that also need to be marketed. My question is: How
effective are your marketing strategies? Firstly, how do you cascade
them to municipal areas and secondly, how effective are they in
ensuring that the hinterland also gets marketed, because there is a
lot of tourism activities that can attract tourists in the
hinterland.
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: Chairperson, marketing is not the sole
responsibility of SA Tourism. There are provincial marketing
agencies. Most municipalities have their own marketing agencies.
Certainly, cities do, but even smaller towns also have, in many
cases, websites and destination marketing activities.
Clearly, a lot of our key destinations are in what might be referred
to as the hinterland in the deeper rural areas. So, they would
constitute part of our overall marketing of the diversity of
products that South Africa has to offer.
In terms of some of the things that can be done within
municipalities, with our limited resources, we are moving away – I
will answer this in a later question as well – from our project-byproject approach, because we simply cannot reach enough places or we
just don‟t have enough resources to follow up. Often, we find
ourselves in the difficult position of having, in response to
requests, initiated a project in the municipality or outside a
municipality, and then it is not in our hands to ensure that the
27 OCTOBER 2016
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project is sustainable and that it is properly followed up. And
often these projects lead to failure.
So, we are now having, as the hon member correctly said, more sort
of programmatic approaches, for example, the retention of the blue
flag beach status, employing people, working with a partner in order
to do that, and working with municipalities. But we have a single
partner.
So, as the hon member well knows, we have appointment 200 people as
the first phase of the blue flag beach project, which we would see
as the beginning of a much broader working for tourism kind of
approach, where we will concentrate on destination enhancement
rather than projects that have businesses attached to the it, which
we really are not in control of. And that is not really what
government should be doing.
I think the point is well made that often some of the most beautiful
parts of our country are precisely in that hinterland and are not
adequately marketed. I think it is a joined challenge for us and the
provincial marketing agents. Thank you.
Mr L B GAEHLER: Chairperson, Minister, you have partly answered me,
but there is one thing I would like to know. Tourism can create a
lot of work, especially in the unemployed areas like the rural
areas. What are the plans to diversify tourism in the heritage areas
27 OCTOBER 2016
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of the Eastern Cape and the Wild Coast areas of Dwesa-Cwebe, Mbhotyi
and the whole Port St Johns? Those are very beautiful areas. What
assistance can you give to the province and the municipalities
because there is a lot of work that can be created through tourism?
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: Chairperson, these issues do come up in a
following question. If you like, ... We work with the provinces. So
far, the kinds of projects that we have supported have been
submitted to us by the provinces.
At the end of the day, it is a concurrent function. All of the
provinces have departments of tourism and have entities. All we can
do with our resources is to give some kind of support to what is
happening in the provinces. With respect to the job creation, it is
similar to what the Minister of Finance said yesterday that jobs
will follow when tourism grows. Tourism will grow if we offer a good
tourism package and if we market our country well. It will grow in
all of the provinces of the country because tourists don‟t only come
to a single city or province. Obviously, there are some places that
attract more tourists than others, but inevitably, when the absolute
number is increased then the distribution also happens accordingly.
We are trying quite actively, in the increase of numbers, to get a
better seasonal spread and a better geographical spread in terms of
when tourists come to South Africa. We are trying to get more people
to come in the so-called off-season, and to marketing places that
27 OCTOBER 2016
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are not the typical place that attract large numbers, like Cape
Town, for example. We would encourage people to go to places like
the Northern Cape, Free State, North West, even the Eastern Cape if
you really insist.
The truth of the matter is, some of these places have the most
beautiful offerings and some of the offerings in these places are
quite far away from the airports, for example, the Wild Coast. The
Wild Coast has to be one of our most untapped places of huge tourism
potential. However, it is linked to infrastructure as well and ease
of road access, in this case.
We can go on for quite a long time, but the fact of the matter is,
any kind of growth in tourism numbers translates into significant
numbers of jobs, because it is a very employment-intensive industry.
Thank you.
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: House Chairperson, hon Minister, as
tourism is the most important and largest contributor to our
country‟s gross domestic product, we have to do as much as possible
to attract tourists from abroad through marketing and by word of
mouth. Why must the tourists wait for hours at our national entry
points in order to be screened at the biometric points and what
efforts have your department made to address this issue together
with the Minister of Home Affairs, in order to achieve your goals?
27 OCTOBER 2016
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): It will depend on you, hon
Minister. You have heard that it is not related to the question.
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: I answer all questions. I don‟t treat any
question as ... [Inaudible.] ... I am not always in a position to
answer. It is not the domain and the responsibility of the
Department of Tourism.
In answer to the second part of the question, regarding what we are
doing about it, we are engaging with the Department of Home Affairs
because we are concerned about the long queues, especially at O R
Tambo International Airport. We don‟t seem to have the same kind of
problem at the other airports. We have read a lot about it. It is a
huge inconvenience to people coming to South Africa. In many cases,
people have missed their connecting flights. That becomes a massive
inconvenience.
We are in discussion with Home Affairs. We will be raising it. I
know the industry has raised it directly with the Deputy President.
I think, at this stage, it is a matter of appreciating the value and
importance of taking biometric data upon arrival, but increasing the
staff members at these airports is also important, so that it does
not result in unnecessary holdups. Thank you.
Ms Z V NCITHA: Hon Chair, we have seen the horse racing programme,
which relates to tourism in the rural area, Berlin, in Buffalo City.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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Is the department involved in terms of ensuring the sustainability
of such a project and the marketing of the project itself? Thank
you.
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: I could answer with a single word and that
is no. We are not directly involved. In fact, I was not even aware
of the potential there. There are so many events and festivals and
sporting events that can form part of our tourism marketing package.
A smallish festival could be a big thing for a small town, like the
Oyster Festival in Knysna, the Marula Festival and other festivals
and of course, sporting events as well.
Horse racing is a very big thing. I think if there is a horse racing
event in Buffalo City, it is up to Buffalo City. It has its own
marketing agency for the city and of course, the province has a
marketing agency. Between the city and the province, they should be
marketing this event and we will assist them as much possible. Thank
you.
Upgrading of Dinokeng Nature Reserve
180. Ms B A Engelbrecht (Gauteng: DA) asked the Minister of Tourism:
Whether his department has any plans to upgrade the Dinokeng
Nature Reserve in Tshwane to be in par with the rest of South
27 OCTOBER 2016
PAGE: 132 of 165
Africa‟s top tourist destinations; if not, why not; if so, what
are the relevant details?
CO442E
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: Hon House Chairperson, the answer to this
question is: No, the Department of Tourism does not have plans to
upgrade the Dinokeng Game Reserve in Tshwane, which is a project of
the Gauteng provincial government. In terms of attractions, at
present, the department‟s support is mainly focused on upgrading
visitor information services and enhancing world heritage sites. For
example in Gauteng, we have put considerable resources into
enhancing the Cradle of Humankind as these world heritage sites have
global status accorded to them due to their importance.
Other projects that have historically received support have done so
as part of our social responsibility programme. Some of these
projects are in the deeper rural areas and are done closely with
communities. All of these projects have been in response to
submissions from provinces for infrastructure development and
upgrades of tourists‟ sites.
As I said earlier, we are now moving away from the project-byproject approach to one which is programmatic in approach and scale
such as the new Blue Flag beaches initiative. Thank you.
Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: Hon House Chair, Dinokeng is the first free
ranging big five reserve in Gauteng and apart from that, it is very
27 OCTOBER 2016
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close to the Wonderboom Airport, the OR Tambo International Airport
and it is situated right in the middle of a very very poor and
impoverished rural area. It is therefore the ideal reserve to
enhance exactly those factors you were discussing slightly earlier.
I would like to find out from you, what type of incentives would
your department be prepared to provide to the land owners,
especially in terms of developing lodges in making the place more
amenable for the tourists and to create an improved socioeconomic
livelihood of the people in that very poor community? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: I couldn‟t agree more that Dinokeng – if
the hon member could discontinue his conversation directly with the
questioner – I will get to the rich and poor issue in a moment. You
are absolutely right that Dinokeng is in such proximity to both
Pretoria and Johannesburg; it is the closest place that people can
go to and experience the big five, there is no question about that.
We do market it, but of course they must also market themselves.
Just to repeat, there is a provincial marketing agency and both
Tshwane and Johannesburg have marketing agencies as well.
There is no question about Dinokeng being an important tourist
destination. In terms of supporting land owners and product owners
in Dinokeng, there are a range of different land or product owners
in Dinokeng and we can‟t give them any kind of support that we
wouldn‟t be giving to other product owners elsewhere and we simply
don‟t have the resources to give thousands of product owners some
27 OCTOBER 2016
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kinds of incentive to enhance their properties or offering. The only
incentive programme that we currently have, that will be kick
starting effectively next year, is an incentive programme to move
towards retrofitting with renewable energy. That is one incentive
programme.
The other hon member who wasn‟t on the floor is absolutely right by
saying that our efforts should be going towards assisting really
struggling new entrants to the sector and that is small black-owned
enterprises. We have various support measures, mostly in terms of
entrepreneurial support, advice, mentoring and training. That sort
of assistance can be given to enterprises that are struggling to
find their feet in a very competitive environment.
Most of our large or more established product owners are doing
extremely well right now with tourism booming. I can‟t say that
necessarily applies to every one of them but the story of tourism in
our country is a good news story right now although many thousands
of small entrepreneurs are struggling with the lack of resources and
experience. We really are moving, in fact, tomorrow I will be
launching the next phase of our enterprise support programme which
is in a hub in the Pilanesberg area and there will be about 50 small
enterprises that will be gathered there who will be part of our
first pilot project of giving support to enterprises in a kind of a
hubbed approach. We do not have enough time for me to tell you more
about it. Thank you.
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Mr J J LONDT: Hon House Chairperson, to the hon Minister, I think
under your leadership tourism is doing an admirable job and I also
appreciate your willingness earlier saying that there is no such
thing as a stupid question. Our country has currently undergone some
damage in the eyes of the international community with politics that
is going on within the country. If there ever should be a motion of
no confidence in the President, will you support such a motion or
not? [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Yoh! Ah-a. Hon Londt is out
of order. Hon Minister, you are not dealing with what the hon member
is raising; you are dealing with the issues of tourism. Please, the
Minister is ready to answer everything that goes with his
department. We are now dealing with tourism at the moment and I am
going to request the hon Minister to not even attempt to answer this
question.
Ms T MOTARA: House Chair, to the Minister, noting that tourism is a
concurrent function and that the Gauteng Department of Tourism is
more involved with the Dinokeng Nature Reserve, there were plans a
few years ago to expand the nature reserve to about 25 000 hectares
but the expansion would have included privately owned lodges. One of
the issues that hamper access to tourism or tourists‟ sites is the
cost involved for ordinary South Africans just to gain entry and
access to be able to spend whatever little money they have left in
those areas.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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In your Ministers and Members of Executive Councils Meeting, Minmec,
would you then, as an appeal, impress upon the MEC and those
responsible from Gauteng as well as the municipality to engage with
the private individuals who own the lodges to create favourable
conditions and market related access fees for those impoverished in
the area of Dinokeng especially but broadly in Gauteng and even
neighbouring provinces, because the area borders on other provinces,
to be able to access it at better costs for South Africans. Thank
you.
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: Definitely, that is more than a question;
it‟s a bit of an advice and we fully agree with you. That has been
the topic of discussion at the Minmec meetings with the MECs.
Clearly we can‟t determine what the private sector or private
product owners charge for their services or for their accommodation
but we can encourage them, especially off season, to make packages
available precisely because it is in their interest.
We are trying to encourage South Africans to see more of their
country and travel around their country to increase domestic
tourism. The main reason why South Africans, and in particular black
South Africans - well there is no culture of travel etc - but the
biggest reason why people don‟t travel and have holidays in their
own country is because, for the majority, they can‟t afford, as
simple as that. People like yourself, House Chairperson, occupying
that seat, when you have a reasonable salary compared to most, I am
27 OCTOBER 2016
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sure you have done some domestic tourism. I am also sure everyone in
this House has done a little bit of travel and tourism but the
majority of the South Africans are excluded I am afraid.
When we speak about tourism for all, which was the theme of the
tourism month for this year, the focus was on universal
accessibility, largely for people with physical disabilities. That‟s
the global theme by the way. But in the South African context, the
biggest challenge, in order to achieve tourism for all, is
affordability, poverty and places being too expensive.
We must start off with the places that we own like the Cradle of
Humankind and Suikerbosrand; places that belong to Gauteng province.
They don‟t necessary have to make it free entry but consider other
things for example, the cableway going up Table Mountain offers a
free ride on your birthday. That is a good thing because it means
that one day in the year, if you live in Cape Town, it doesn‟t
matter how poor you are, you can get a free ride up Table Mountain.
Kistenbosch is offering some packages to pensioners for example so
we are really encouraging firstly government owned entities to make
available more attractive packages to make sure that people can see
and experience our own country. We also encourage the private sector
to be more generous and to avail their resources that they are
privilege to own. Some of the people, who own private nature
reserves etc, are doing a great job and good for South Africa but
27 OCTOBER 2016
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they are the privilege class, and some of them are doing wonderful
social responsibility programmes as well. One day when you get a
chance I would love for you to go and see some of them. Just share
your resources with people who just don‟t have the money to be able
to experience this wonderful stuff that we have in South Africa.
Thank you.
Sustainable tourism sector
154.
Mr S G Mthimunye (Mpumalanga: ANC) asked the Minister of
Tourism:
Whether
his
collaboration
department
with
has
other
any
strategies
government
to
encourage
departments, sectors
and stakeholders in order to maintain a sustainable tourism
sector in the country; if not, why not; if so, (a) to what
extent
does
these
collaborations
contribute
to
the
(i)
development and (ii) economy of the country and (b) what
are the further relevant details in this regard?
CO412E
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: Hon Chairperson, the Department of Tourism
places a high premium on partnerships co-operation and collaboration
with strategic partners and has a memorandum and co-operation
agreements with various government departments, industry
organisations, state-owned entities and civil society organisations.
The national tourism sector strategy underlines the significance of
27 OCTOBER 2016
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collaboration with other departments and spheres of governments at
national, provincial and local level including collaboration with
the private sector. Pursuant to the subjective, the department
participates in various fora and that is improving co-ordination
whilst contributing to the sustainable development of the sector.
These collaborations have led to significant growth in tourism over
the years. The growth as evidence in the number of tourists‟ arrival
contribution to gross domestic product, GDP, as well as employment
is a clear indication that collaboration amongst all stakeholders is
achieving the desired results. Of course, there is always room for
improvement in this area. The collaborations have led to improved
streamlining of policies and programmes across sphere of government
and industry enhance capacity to deliver on the concurrent tourism
mandate and better positioning of the destination. For example here,
there are others is the improved air access through implementation
of the air transport strategy. It is the strategy of the Department
of Transport.
However, clearly connectivity and airlift is an essential component
to bringing more tourists to our country. The latest tourism
satellite account as released by Statistics South Africa indicates
that the travel and tourism sectors direct contribution to GDP was
R111 billion in 2014. Direct employment was at about R680 000 for
the same period, 680 000 people directly employed. But, meanwhile
the total or combined, that is direct and indirect contribution of
27 OCTOBER 2016
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travel and tourism to GDP; this is calculated by the world not by us
– but by the World Travel and Tourism Council. It was put at
R375 billion in 2015, with the total employment that is direct and
indirect and induced at about 1,6 million people. That is huge
because the valued chain is a very extensive value chain. Therefore,
the total combined GDP contribution from travel and tourism was
about 9,4% for 2015. As I have already said on various occasions
that in 2016 we are doing a lot better than we did in 2015.
Therefore, whatever numbers of people were employed in 2015, you can
expect a number to increase other than this year but in the years
beyond. Thank you.
Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: Hon House Chair, this is one sector of the economy
that is on growth paths when many others are actually on the
downward stream. In your collaboration, Minister, between me and
you, you will know in municipal areas if you look at those
integrated development plans, IDPs, if you find tourism to be part
of the IDPs less than a one pager kind of a thing in terms of the
municipality, let alone in the local economic development, LED, of a
municipality. I am no proponent of homelands, Minister. In your
former homeland we have a lot of tourism offerings that are
untapped. I am not sure in your collaboration with stakeholders as a
department.
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What is it that you assist with municipalities, offerings that were
done by your former homeland government? In the former KwaNdebele,
for instance, you have a nice offering called Umkhombo Dam which is
completely under utilised or untapped. I am not sure what your
department does to motivate municipality. I know that there are
preoccupied with a number of things - basic services that is
supposed to offer to communities. This is one sector that is on the
growth path that they tap in terms of developing their own local
economy.
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: You are so right and you are coming from
the province of the rising sun. That is correct – Mpumalanga. I
trust you are all agreeing that Mpumalanga is the most beautiful
province in the country - I do not think that. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Wow, Mpumalanga, order!
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: Did I say something wrong Chairperson?
However, you started by saying that you are not a supporter of a
homeland policy. Of course you are right, but I think what the
practices may have been we miss always take the best and discard the
worst. So I do work closely with all of the provincial government
and the member of the executive council, MECs. I think the owners on
the provincial government to take lesson from what may have work
before and what did not, of course.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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Therefore, if there were some good programmes in KwaNdebele or
wherever else in Mpumalanga, we should take a careful look at
whether we do not want to read somebody‟s programmes. Having said
that if destinations like the Blyde River Canyon, Potholes, or
Pilgrim‟s Rest, etc, if those destinations are properly developed
and tourists come, it is not that the only beneficiary of tourism is
the guest house owner or the hotel owner. I said that there is a
long value chain.
You see people that are standing outside Blyde River Canyon or God‟s
Window selling their products, the more tourists come, the more
products they can sell and those are jobs. Those are livelihoods. I
think the challenges for us, amongst the many other things of
course, is to support those who are making these arts and crafts to
be able to market them or affectively with facilities, but also to
support them in the manufacture of these of arts and crafts because
that is a huge industry that goes beyond just the international
tourists industry. The creative art is a massive industry, but it is
given huge boost through tourism.
I do not know the particular programmes that you are referring to,
but I would agree that in many rural areas the biggest economic
opportunity is probably just in tourism. It is agriculture,
essentially and tourism. In some places the agriculture potential is
very limited but the tourism potential remains untapped. Thank you.
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you very much. Hon
members, in the absence of the hon member Koni and also that we did
not receive any arrangements from the party and the member. This
then take us to the last question, Question 155 asked by the hon
member Makue. Over to you, hon Minister.
Decline of tourism in 2015
155.
Mr E R Makue (Gauteng: ANC) asked the Minister of Tourism:
(1)
Whether his department has conducted an investigation
into the possible contributing factors in the decline
of tourism in 2015 (details furnished); if not, why
not; if so, what are the relevant details;
(2)
whether his department has any strategies to address
the decline of tourism; if not, why not; if so, (a)
what strategies and (b) which results contributed to
the improvement of the situation?
CO413E
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: There is a bit of Gauteng dominance here,
Chairperson!
While no formal investigation into the decline in tourism arrivals
in 2015 was conducted for that period, the department knows what the
tourism arrival statistics were. We continuously obtained
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information from tour operators and SA Tourism‟s country offices on
the various factors impacting on the decline in tourist arrivals.
That was what the question is about: What were the factors that led
to the decline?
In addition to that, the Tourism Business Council of South Africa
commissioned a study into precisely what the contributing factors
towards that decline were. It was a good, comprehensive study, which
was shared with the department and deemed by ourselves to be
adequate to have insight into the contributing factors without our
having to duplicate effort.
The contributing factors are well known to all hon members here. In
the first nine months of 2015, it was a combination of a few things.
One was the Ebola factor, which was completely unfounded, of course.
There was no Ebola outbreak in South Africa. However, it was a
factor because of perception. The other factor was the stringent
visa requirements introduced with good intention but which had a
very negative impact upon some of our source markets. The other one
was the outbreak of attacks on foreign nationals. That impacted
tremendously upon our immediate, neighbouring states and on the
African source markets.
The other part of the question is to do with strategies to deal with
this decline. Of course, no one likes to see the numbers coming
down. Numbers coming down are very bad for our economy, bad for
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jobs, bad for economic growth, so we really worked very closely with
industry to see if we could find our way through this. We also
worked with the Department of Home Affairs. The good news is that,
in our interaction with Home Affairs through an interministerial
committee chaired by the Deputy President, we made huge advances.
So, that factor, which was a negative factor, was largely overcome,
though there are still some challenges that we have to deal with. We
also developed an intervention plan to stimulate growth and get back
to recovery.
These interventions that we worked on with industry will not be
once-off but will continue, as they are targeted at confidencebuilding in both the tourism sector and the rest of our country‟s
economy, in fact. The interventions are in the areas of competitive
marketing, to boost sales, the strengthening of our tourism branding
and strengthening our performance in the area of business events.
Conferencing and business events are very important to our tourism
industry and it is doing extremely well. South Africa is one of the
sought-after destinations for such events.
Then, of course, there is also the facilitation of market access. I
have already touched on that. You can do good marketing, you can
have a good offer, a good destination, but you‟ve got to get around
some of the obstacles to people coming to your country and some of
the things that make it difficult for people to come to your
country. As I said, we have made a lot of progress in that regard.
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So, as I said, some challenges remain, and our interaction with the
Department of Home Affairs continues.
On the foreign tourist arrivals, I said they recovered remarkably in
2016. Well, to be honest, they exceeded all our expectations. A lot
of people thought it would take years to recover. It did not. So,
where are we at the moment?
The last figures we got were from Statistics SA. For the period of
January to August 2016, the numbers increased by 14,8% - almost 15%.
That is the total number. If one looks at the overseas market, it
increased by almost 24%. So, just to give you some ideas of regions
for that period, January to august this year compared to January to
August last year, arrivals from Asia increased by 41,2%; from the
Middle East, almost 40%; from Central and South America, 19%; from
North America, 18%; and from Europe, almost 16%. From Africa – by
air and by land, because those are the categories used – arrivals
went up by 6% and 13,7%, respectively. The total from the African
mainland went up by 13%.
I know it‟s a lot of information for you to absorb. All I can say is
that the increases in tourist numbers have been quite astronomical –
phenomenal. When you remove some of the barriers, you see the
results. Just to use an example, growth from China has been
particularly impressive and it is largely attributable, as I said,
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to the relaxation of the requirement for in-person visa
applications.
Clarity of our communication to the travel and tourism trade,
globally, and working in partnership with our missions abroad
assisted in turning around the Ebola perceptions, as well. Happily,
Ebola is no longer a factor. Other factors include currently
favourable factors resulting in this increase in numbers - I am
going to end here and you‟ll be very happy because then you can
almost go home – one of which is the favourable exchange rate.
The hon member is perfectly right. A lot of other sectors are
struggling because of low commodity prices, but in this case, the
case of tourism, the exchange rate is very much in our favour. Last
year we had to weather the storm. Now, we have to ride the wave,
because there are huge opportunities now. We must just position
ourselves and ride it. Thank you, Chairperson.
Mr E MAKUE: Chairperson, I would like to express my appreciation for
the detail into which the Minister has gone. I would just like to
raise one alarm by way of follow-up: At the recent Women in Tourism
Conference, where the Deputy Minister represented the department,
groups of people representing disabled people expressed a concern
about how these growing numbers should not exclude them. So, the hon
Minister can either answer me now or accept it as an element. This
was a group of people from KwaZulu-Natal who said they were going to
27 OCTOBER 2016
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start focusing on tourism for disabled people. I think we have to be
ready to accommodate those people in our society because they need
us even more in this sector that is growing so rapidly. Thank you,
Chair.
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: Chairperson, I will answer the hon member‟s
question if he tells us where he got that beautiful tie – because I
think any decent Minister of Tourism should wear a tie like that
with South African flags on it! [Laughter.]
The people with disabilities are raising very legitimate concerns.
As I said, that has been the theme this year. I think there are some
very good initiatives, though – we should say that - and I want to
talk about one that is still to come and also about some of the good
things that are happening in our country.
One day, hon member, because you are the chairperson of the
portfolio committee, you and your committee members might want to go
to the Park Inn, in Newlands. It is a hotel that is owned by DeafSA,
and Wilma Newhoudt-Druchen can take you there. Her organisation owns
that hotel and 30% of the people working there are deaf. I don‟t
know of any other country in the world that has an offering like
that. Having said that, we are strongly encouraging everyone and
working with the Department of Tourism, SANParks, the botanical
gardens, World Heritage Sites to make their facilities more
disability friendly.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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There is one thing that I thought I should just pass on to you,
although we haven‟t quite got there yet. The next phase of our
Tourism Incentive Programme, beyond the retro-fitting for energy
efficiency, is going to be a subsidy to help retro-fit to make
establishments more disability friendly. Thank you.
Mr J W W JULIUS: Chairperson, hon Minister, I think, yes, indeed,
the numbers increased. However, in order to plan properly, we need
to be honest about why the numbers increased. The depreciation of
the rand was the main reason for the improvement in the tourism
industry. [Interjections.] It was the main reason. Linked with that,
like you said, industry leaders and the private sector also did a
lot to stabilise the industry after the 2015 decline in tourism.
We also know that the main reason for the decline in tourism in 2015
was due to the draconian visa regulations, as you rightfully said,
introduced by your colleague, the Minister of Home Affairs. It was
even worsened by the fact that he couldn‟t acknowledge that this was
the situation. He even said that industry leaders were lying and
cooking up numbers and that is the reason we saw a decline of 6,8%.
The issue for me here is this, Minister. What measures are now in
place to ensure that this department will co-ordinate with other
departments so that we don‟t see this misguidance from other
departments impacting negatively on tourism – like an impact
assessment before we introduce these regulations? I know you were
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vehemently opposed to these visa regulations. You came out strongly
on that and I applauded you at the time for that. With the deeply
divided Cabinet we have now, will it be possible? What measures will
you put in place for that? Thank you, Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): He was still keeping to his
time. That is why I did not stop him. He still had two seconds. Over
to you, hon Minister.
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: Chairperson, firstly, we do not have a
deeply divided Cabinet. [Interjections.] It doesn‟t mean that I ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order, hon members!
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: I am in the very privileged position of
having been in Cabinet and having served in various Cabinets over
the years. I was in Cabinet for the first time, along with Jeff
Radebe, in 1994. There are always tensions and differences. So, it
is not that we necessarily agree on every single thing - any more
than you do in this House. However, it‟s not a deeply divided
Cabinet. That would be a completely wrong characterisation. We get
on with our work. We are doing good work, but that does not mean
there are not areas of debate and areas of difference.
I do not know where the hon member gets his data from. He challenged
another member and asked where he got his data from. Well, I would
27 OCTOBER 2016
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like to know where he gets his data from because we are not actually
sure, at this stage, exactly what the main factors are, resulting in
the rise. Certainly, the rise in the exchange rate is a very
important and significant factor. I doubt, though, that it is the
main factor. I don‟t know, because it‟s not something that one
should make thumb-suck conclusions about.
We are rising, against a year when the figures were low. The biggest
factor in that year was actually the Ebola virus. So, some markets
were profoundly affected by the visa requirements, but even for
those markets, like China, Ebola was arguably a bigger factor than
the visa requirements. Ebola was a very, very big factor. So, it‟s
not for us to say what the biggest factors were. There was a
combination of factors that impacted negatively on tourism growth in
2015.
The positive growth that we are seeing today is due to a number of
contributing factors, including intensified marketing efforts, the
fact that Ebola is no longer here and that South Africa is, of
course, a great value-for-money proposition. However, it wouldn‟t
just be because the exchange rate is favourable. People come to
South Africa because they love South Africa, because we have a great
offer. So, there is a host of factors now contributing towards the
growth.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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Let me just say that, in our sector strategy, we will be very clear.
Apart from strengthening our marketing endeavours, continuously
improving our destination and the various parts of our destination,
you are right. We must continuously remove the barriers that stand
in the way of tourism growth. So, we will continue to engage with
the Departments of Home Affairs and Transport – and other
departments that are critical to the growth of tourism. Thank you.
[Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Thank you very much, hon
Minister. Indeed, you do deserve a round of applause for the good
work that you‟ve just done in this House. It is, indeed, as the hon
Makue has said. You have just fed us with a detailed response from
your department.
See also QUESTIONS AND REPLIES.
UNPARLIAMENTARY LANGUAGE
(Ruling)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon members, I would like to
deliver a ruling on a matter raised by the hon Julius. During the
debate on illegal mining, on 13 October 2016, the hon Julius rose on
a point of order against a statement made by the hon Rayi, and I
quote:
27 OCTOBER 2016
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I think the member is making racist remarks. You don‟t refer to
members‟ race in this House and you know that. Can the member
withdraw the statement he is making? He‟s making racist remarks.
The hon Rayi is recorded as having said:
I have noted that, on the list of the speakers of the DA, they
don‟t have the guts to put black people. All three speakers are
all white because this is affecting black people, in particular.
I indicated that I would like to check on the matter and come back
to the House with a ruling.
The question is whether the statement is unparliamentary, or not.
Section 71 of the Constitution provides that delegates to the NCOP
have freedom of speech in the Council and its committees, subject to
its Rules and Orders. Rule 46 of the Council Rules cautions members
against the use of offensive or unbecoming language towards other
members, commonly known as “unparliamentary language”.
The hon Rayi is quoted as having said:
I have noted that, on the list of speakers of the DA, they don‟t
have the guts to put black people. All three speakers are all
white because this is affecting black people, in particular.
27 OCTOBER 2016
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Listen carefully, hon members. Members are aware that we have ruled
previously that statements and comments directed at a political
party are not unparliamentary, as this would have the potential of
sifting the debate. However, if the statement were directed towards
a specific member of this House, it would be ruled unparliamentary.
Further, if we were to accept the argument that the remark is racist
and that members are not allowed to refer to race in this House, we
would most certainly be curbing the freedom of speech members are
afforded and enjoy in this House. I would like to implore hon
members to desist from raising spurious points of order in order to
respond to the speaker at the podium.
I therefore rule that, as the statement in question was made in the
context of the debate and directed at a political party and not a
member of the House, it does render the point of order invalid.
Thank you very much, hon members.
The Council adjourned at 18:22.
__________
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
WEDNESDAY, 26 OCTOBER 2016
ANNOUNCEMENTS
27 OCTOBER 2016
PAGE: 155 of 165
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
The Speaker and the Chairperson
1.
Draft Bills submitted in terms of Joint Rule 159
(1)
Division of Revenue Amendment Bill, 2016, submitted by the Minister of Finance.
Referred to the Standing Committee on Appropriations and the Select Committee on
Appropriations.
(2)
Rates and Monetary Amounts and Amendment of Revenue Laws (Administration)
Bill, 2016, submitted by the Minister of Finance.
Referred to the Standing Committee on Finance and the Select Committee on Finance.
(3)
Tax Administration Laws Amendment Bill, 2016, submitted by the Minister of Finance.
Referred to the Standing Committee on Finance and the Select Committee on Finance.
2.
Classification of Bills by Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
(1)
The JTM in terms of Joint Rule 160(6) classified the following Bill as a section 75 Bill:
(a)
Refugees Amendment Bill [B 12 – 2016] (National Assembly – sec 75).
27 OCTOBER 2016
PAGE: 156 of 165
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
1.
The Minister of Finance
(a)
Medium Term Budget Policy Statement, 2016 – [RP 342 – 2016].
(b)
Adjusted Estimates of National Expenditure, 2016 – [RP 343 – 2016], which includes:
1.
Vote No 1 – “The Presidency” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
2.
Vote No 2 – “Parliament” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
3.
Vote No 3 – “Communications” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
4.
Vote No 4 – “Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs” – Adjustments
Estimates, 2016-17;
5.
Vote No 5 – “Home Affairs” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
6.
Vote No 6 – “International Relations and Cooperation” – Adjustments Estimates,
2016-17;
7.
Vote No 7 – “National Treasury” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
27 OCTOBER 2016
8.
PAGE: 157 of 165
Vote No 8 – “Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation” – Adjustments Estimates, 201617;
9.
Vote No 9 – “Public Enterprises” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
10.
Vote No 10 – “Public Service and Administration” – Adjustments Estimates, 201617;
11.
Vote No 11 – “Public Works” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
12.
Vote No 12 – “Statistics South Africa” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
13.
Vote No 13 – “Women” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
14.
Vote No 14 – “Basic Education” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
15.
Vote No 15 – “Higher Education and Training” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
16.
Vote No 16 – “Health” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
17.
Vote No 17 – “Social Development” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
18.
Vote No 18 – “Correctional Services” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
19.
Vote No 19 – “Defence and Military Veterans” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
27 OCTOBER 2016
20.
PAGE: 158 of 165
Vote No 20 – “Independent Police Investigative Directorate” – Adjustments
Estimates, 2016-17;
21.
Vote No 21 – “Justice and Constitutional Development” – Adjustments Estimates,
2016-17;
22.
Vote No 22 – “Office of the Chief Justice and Judicial Administration – Adjustments
Estimates, 2016-17;
23.
Vote No 23 – “Police” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
24.
Vote No 24 – “Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries” – Adjustments Estimates, 201617;
25.
Vote No 25 – “Economic Development” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
26.
Vote No 26 – “Energy” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
27.
Vote No 27 – “Environmental Affairs” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
28.
Vote No 28 – “Labour” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
29.
Vote No 29 – “Mineral Resources” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
30.
Vote No 30 – “Science and Technology” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
27 OCTOBER 2016
PAGE: 159 of 165
31.
Vote No 31 – “Small Business Development” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
32.
Vote No 32 – “Telecommunications and Postal Services” – Adjustments Estimates,
2016-17;
33.
Vote No 33 – “Tourism” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
34.
Vote No 34 – “Trade and Industry” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
35.
Vote No 35 – “Transport” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
36.
Vote No 36 – “Water and Sanitation” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
37.
Vote No 37 – “Arts and Culture” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17;
38.
Vote No 38 – “Human Settlements” – Adjustments Estimates, 2016-17.
39.
Vote No 39 – “Rural Development and Land Reform” – Adjustments Estimates,
2016-17.
40.
Vote No 40 – “Sport and Recreation South Africa” – Adjustments Estimates, 201617.
(c)
Adjustments Appropriation Bill, 2016 – [B 16 – 2016].
27 OCTOBER 2016
PAGE: 160 of 165
(d)
Division of Revenue Amendment Bill, 2016 – [B 15 – 2016].
(e)
Rates and Monetary Amounts and Amendment of Revenue Laws Bill, 2016 – [B 19 –
2016].
(f)
Rates and Monetary Amounts and Amendment of Revenue Laws (Administration) Bill,
2016 – [B 20 – 2016].
2.
(g)
Taxation Laws Amendment Bill, 2016 – [B 17 – 2016].
(h)
Tax Administration Laws Amendment Bill, 2016 – [B 18 – 2016].
(i)
Finance Bill, 2016 – [B 21 – 2016].
The Minister of Justice and Correctional Services
(a)
Government Notice No R 1147, published in Government Gazette No 40294, dated 23
September 2016: Declaration of peace officers in terms of section 334 of the Criminal
Procedure Act, 1977 (Act No 51 of 1977): Inspectors appointed in terms of section 64 of
the North West Gambling Act, 2001 (Act No 2 of 2001).
National Council of Provinces
1.
The Chairperson
27 OCTOBER 2016
(a)
PAGE: 161 of 165
The revised Fiscal Framework and Revenue Proposals, 2016, tabled in terms of section
12(5) of the Money Bills Amendment Procedure and Related Matters Act, 2009 (Act No. 9
of 2009).
To be referred to the Select Committee on Finance for consideration and report.
(b)
Letter from the Minister of Home Affairs dated 06 October 2016 to the Chairperson of the
National Council of Provinces explaining the reasons for the delay in the tabling of the
Annual Report of Vote 5 – Department of Home Affairs for 2015-16.
DEPARTMENT OF HOME AFFAIRS: LATE TABLING OF THE ANNUAL
REPORT OF VOTE 5 FOR THE FINANCIAL YEAR ENDED 31 MARCH 2016
In terms of section 40(1)(c) of the Public Finance Management Act (PFMA), the
Department must submit financial statements within two months after the end of the
financial year to the Auditor-General for auditing and to the relevant Treasury to prepare
consolidated financial statements. In terms of section 40(1)(d) of the PFMA, the
Accounting Officer must submit, within five months of the end of the financial year to the
relevant treasury and also to the Executive Authority responsible an annual report, the
financial statements for that financial year after those statements have been audited, and
the Auditor-General's report on those statements.
Furthermore section 65(1)(a) of the PFMA stipulates that the annual report, financial
statements and the audit report must be tabled in the National Assembly by the Executive
Authority for the Department within one month after the Acco unting Officer for
27 OCTOBER 2016
PAGE: 162 of 165
the Department received the audit report. If it is not possible for the Executive Authority to
table the annual report, the financial statements and the audit report on those statements in
the relevant legislature within six months after the end of the financial year to which those
statements relate, the Executive Authority must table a written explanation in the legislature
setting out the reasons why they were not tabled and the Auditor-General may issue a
special report on the delay.
It is the purpose of this letter to provide an explanation why the 2015/16 annual report,
financial statements and audit report of the Department of Home Affairs are not tabled in
Parliament in accordance with the provisions of section 65(1)(a) of the PFMA.
My Department was granted departures from the Modified Cash Standard on assets and
foreign revenue by National Treasury. The departure on assets allowed the Department to
recognise certain ring-fenced assets at the value recorded on the asset register at that point
in time. These assets did not have documents supporting their values. In respect of the
departure on foreign revenue, National Treasury approved during the 2013/14 financial
year that DIRCO collect, reconcile and process revenue collected on behalf of my
Department at missions abroad and to deposit such directly into the National Revenue
Fund. National Treasury approved the request, with an emphasis that despite the
aforementioned inter-departmental arrangements, the accountability for the Departmental
revenue will remain with the Department and any errors or omissions found would be
reported in my Department's audit report.
On 8 March 2015 the Department was informed that the departures previously granted by
National Treasury do not meet the requirements of fair presentation as is required by the
27 OCTOBER 2016
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Modified Cash Standard. The Department further engaged National Treasury and approval
was granted that the collection of foreign revenue be transferred to DIRCO on the basis of
the agent-principal relationship with effect from 1 April 2015. On 7 December 2015, the
Auditor-General raised concerns about the accounting treatment for foreign revenue on the
agent-principal relationship. Further interactions with National Treasury and the Auditor
General took place and on 26 May 2016 National Treasury issued a directive on the
accounting treatment for foreign revenue. In this regard, the Department was advised not to
recognise any foreign revenue in its books, but to insert a narrative in Annual Financial
Statements disclosing the full amount of foreign revenue collected on its behalf by DIRCO.
The Department was further advised to record the revenue, which was collected by DIRCO
previously but for which the corresponding supporting documentation have not be en
received and disclosed as a Contingent Asset, as a receivable. With regard to the treatment of
section 50 (1) fines, which were written-off, the Department was advised to recognise fines
as revenue when received. The 2015/16 annual financial statements were prepared on this basis
and were submitted to the Auditor-General for auditing and to National Treasury for
consolidation on 31 May 2016.
On 10 June 2016, the Auditor-General raised a query on non-compliance to the Modified
Cash Standard in respect of the accounting treatment of foreign revenue. Further
engagements with National Treasury followed and on 18 July 2016 National Treasury issued a
modified directive on the accounting treatment for foreign revenue. This compromise
directive was not fully compliant with the Modified Cash Standard.
27 OCTOBER 2016
PAGE: 164 of 165
In consultation with National Treasury, the Department then sought independent technical
advice and an independent technical report was issued on 27 July 2016. National Treasury
and the Auditor-General agreed with the accounting treatment proposed for foreign revenue as
per the independent technical report. This report was presented at the scheduled Audit
Committee meeting held on 28 July 2016. At this meeting, the Auditor-General presented a
draft audit report wherein a disclaimer of audit opinion was expressed in respect of
departmental revenue, accruals and payables not recognised (linked to the DIRCO
accounts), movable capital assets and intangible capital assets. In light of the independent
technical report agreed to by National Treasury and the Auditor-General, and the draft audit
report presented, the Department then requested an audit extension. This request for an
audit extension was granted. The Department has submitted revised financial statements for
auditing to the Auditor-General on 31 August 2016. The revised financial statements take
into account the advice as per the independent technical report.
The Auditor-General has indicated that it should be in a position to submit its final draft audit
report to management by 10 October 2016. Based on the above, the Department has
implemented processes to ensure that annual report will be tabled before the end of October
2016.
Your favourable consideration of my request will be highly appreciated.
Yours sincerely,
(Signed)
MR MKN GIGABA, MP
27 OCTOBER 2016
PAGE: 165 of 165
MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS
THURSDAY, 27 OCTOBER 2016
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
1.
The Chairperson
(a)
Notices of interventions issued in terms of section 139(1) (b) of the Constitution, 1996 to
Nquthu Local and Umzinyathi District Municipalities, KwaZulu-Natal.
Referred to the Select Committee on Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs
for consideration and report.
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