Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised Hansard
House: National Council of Provinces
Date of Meeting: 07 Sep 2016
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
WEDNESDAY, 7 SEPTEMBER 2016
____
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
____
The Council met at 15:04.
The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a
moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.
ORDER OF BUSINESS
WELCOME
(Announcement)
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, I have been informed that
the Whippery has agreed that there will be no notices of motion or
motions without notice.
Before I proceed, I would like to take this opportunity to welcome
the Deputy President in our midst. You are welcome, sir.
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT:
Exploitation/manipulation of socio-economic conditions
7.
Ms T Motara (Gauteng: ANC) asked the Deputy President:
Whether the Government has established that the economic scale
of fronting is one of the most common mechanisms that is being
used by established companies to take
public funds by exploiting and manipulating socio-economic conditions of the
poor, especially small enterprises; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what are the relevant details?
CO317E
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Chairperson, hon members, since the
implementation of one of the most important laws passed after 1994
which is transformational in nature, the Broad-Based Black Economic
Empowerment Act, the practice of fronting by some companies has been
identified as a significant problem. The policy, when it was
initially crafted, did not initially address fronting because it was
envisaged that companies would embrace the spirit and the intent of
the Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Act and the need to be
transformational at the economic level in our country. However,
through monitoring the implementation of this policy, we have become
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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aware that there are quite a number of cases of fronting that seek
to circumvent the intent of this policy, as well as the legislation.
The Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Act is one of the most
important measures that the democratic government has put in place
to address the economic injustices of the past. Alongside employment
equity, land reform and preferential procurement, black economic
empowerment, BEE, has contributed significantly to ensuring the
entry of millions of black South Africans into the mainstream of the
economy, through the length and breadth of the country. Fronting is
therefore what I would call a great and gross abuse of the very
important process of economic transformation. It undermines the very
purpose for which broad-based BEE policies were established.
Working together with the Presidential Broad-Based BEE Advisory
Council, we therefore decided to revise the policy to define and
criminalise fronting. Under the amended Broad-Based Black Economic
Empowerment Act, the Broad-Based BEE Commission now has a
legislative mandate to not only receive complaints but also to
investigate them and institute proceedings in court to restrain
those who seek to breach the Act.
The Act also introduced penalties for those entities and, indeed,
persons found to be involved in fronting. If you are found to be
involved in fronting and are found guilty, a fine of up to 10% of an
entity’s turnover can be imposed, as well as 10 years’ imprisonment.
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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A person convicted of such an offence would also suffer the
restraint of not being able to transact with the state, or with any
organ of state or public entity for a period of 10 years.
The BBBEE Commission has begun its advocacy campaigns across the
country to educate people about their rights and their obligations.
Fronting, in the end, is not a victimless crime. The perpetrators of
fronting practices often target the vulnerable, the poor and the
uninformed in our society. They deprive those most in need from
opportunities that should, rightly, be theirs. I thank you.
[Applause.]
Ms T MOTARA: Hon Chairperson, the Deputy President has spoken about
penalties and some of the repercussions of fronting. My question is:
Are government departments in the various spheres of government
ready to enforce these penalties; and what should citizens do if
they have knowledge of companies guilty of fronting?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Chairperson, starting with the last question,
the National Development Plan refers to our people becoming active
citizens. Active citizenry means that our people should be ready and
willing to protect, defend and advance their own rights and
interests. We therefore expect our people right across the length
and breadth of our country to be highly conscientised and highly
interested in matters that affect their own interests and their own
lives.
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If they should come across situations where their names are being
used in vain, as individuals, in the form of fronting, or where
fraudulent activities are being perpetrated in their names, we
expect that our people, with a heightened level of consciousness,
will be able, firstly, to be aware that something like this that is
wrong is taking place; and secondly, to raise their voices against
it, in whatever shape or form they can, and be able to report
activities like this.
It is very important that, if South Africans want to advance their
own rights and interests, they should stand up on their own two feet
and defend their rights. Like Nelson Mandela said, we expect our
people to be their own liberators. Broad freedom and liberation has
been achieved in our country, but the struggle is not over until
full equality and equity at the economic level is achieved. We
therefore expect our people to continue liberating themselves now
that they have the wherewithal, the instruments to be able to do so,
because they have a Constitution that is on their side that advances
their interests and their rights.
Government departments should be the ones at the forefront as far as
identifying actions, initiatives or incidents of fronting is
concerned. They should be able to identify these, take them up and
deal with them. We now have a law that enables us to deal with these
matters.
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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So, armed with all these instruments, I am sure we will be able to
bring the incidence of fronting down. Thank you very much.
Mr J W W JULIUS: Chairperson and Deputy President, fronting
sometimes starts with verifying agents. Now, verifying agents
sometimes award points to companies without verifying if, indeed,
these companies’ status is correct in terms of broad-based black
economic empowerment, BBBEE. This conduct leads to the snowballing
of corruption and its effect on BBBEE implementation.
How many reported cases were found? I thought you might come here
today with this information on fronting. What is actually happening
in the field? How many reported cases were found where verifying
agents for BBBEE were investigated, and what remedial action was
taken against these agents? Thank you, Chair.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Chairperson, since the advisory commission was
set up by the President, it has been at work, and it is examining
all these matters, including incidents of fronting. At the right
time, I am sure that they will be able to come up with a report that
identifies these areas, or incidents of fronting, as well as the
penalties that have been applied to those who are fronting.
I think you are correct. There are some verification agencies that
may well be guilty of giving out information without verifying the
actual facts. We would want to call upon all these verification
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agencies to be absolutely accurate in their verification process.
Whenever they are asked to verify black economic empowerment, BEE,
credentials, they should make sure that they act like auditors and
they act in a way that is correct because it is on their word that
certain economic decisions are taken. So, we will expect
verification agencies to be more accurate in whatever they do when
it comes to verifying the credentials of companies and to make sure
that they award them the correct points without being fraudulent.
Thank you very much.
Mr C F B SMIT: Hon Chairperson and hon Deputy President, the DA
agrees that more needs to be done to combat fronting, as this
undermines economic growth and increases inequalities that,
ultimately, are detrimental to the poor.
With reference to the Gupta family fleeing the country due to
various investigations into businesses, is there currently
legislation to combat fronting? If not, when will this be
introduced, and would the Deputy President agree that Cabinet’s
decision to place President Zuma in charge of overseeing all
strategic decisions relating to state-owned entities, SOEs, is,
indeed, a case of fronting?
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Deputy President, the question has
veered, in a way, into the area of SOEs and has not really stayed on
topic. Part of the question is en pointe. It has to do with
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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fronting, but I think the hon Smit has veered a bit from the
original question and the response. It is up to you, Deputy
President, whether you want to take the whole of the two questions
or to stick to the original question and its supplementary question.
You many proceed, sir.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Chairperson, there is a portion of that
question where, I believe, the hon Smit really needs information to
be enlightened on. That has to do with the law that he asked a
question about.
The Broad-Based BEE Advisory Council has advocated that the law
should deal with issues of fronting with a view to coming up with
penalties. As I said earlier, that has now been effected. If anyone
is found guilty of fronting, they are liable to be found guilty and
to be sentenced to up to 10% of their turnover - that is if they are
an entity and a company - and imprisonment of up to 10 years. That
is what has been legislated. I believe that the main import of
Mr Smit’s question revolved around that. So, I’m quite happy, hon
Chair, to impart that information to him. Thank you very much.
Mr T C MOTLASHUPING: Hon Chairperson and Deputy President, earlier
this year, the Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Commission
received 23 complaints. Of the 23 complaints, 22 relate to fronting.
As you also responded, you indicated that companies found to be
fronting could be fined 10% of their turnover and the directors
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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given up to 10 years’ imprisonment if found guilty of such an
offence.
My question relates to the issue around whether there have been any
companies to date, as we speak here today, that were found to have
violated the law and the 10% implemented, as well as, perhaps, the
imprisonment that has been alluded to here. Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Chair, as the member correctly says, the
complaints were lodged, and 22 were found to be of a fronting
nature. These are still being processed. The extent to which charges
will be laid and the verdict of guilt administered or arrived at is
still something that is still in process. One is therefore not able
to give any information, in this regard.
What is important, however, is that, as we have embarked upon this
transformational journey, we are ensuring that the black economic
empowerment project does, indeed, succeed. As we have encountered
problems and challenges along the way, these challenges and problems
are being addressed, and one of those was actually to come up with
this provision of the law that will restrain the fronting process. I
foresee that, with time, fronting will become something that belongs
to the past. Business people will be able to conduct business in a
very honest way, with integrity, and ensure that they become part of
this transformational process that the country’s involved in.
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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So, I don’t view this from a negative point of view. I view it very
positively. Laws are put in place to restrain people from acting
incorrectly and, once people become accustomed to the way the law is
meant to be administered, I have often found that they toe the line.
So, we will get to a time and a moment when many, many companies and
individuals will toe the line, and the scourge of fronting in our
country will be something of the past. Thank you very much.
One Stop Shop/Invest SA initiative
8.
Mr M Khawula (KwaZulu-Natal: IFP) asked the Deputy President:
(a) How far has the development of a One Stop Shop/Invest South
Africa initiative which was announced by the President in his
state-of-the-nation-address
(details
furnished)
progressed
to
date in order to realise the goal and (b) how long does it take
for
an
investor
to
invest
in
South
Africa
after
announcement?
this
CO306E
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Chair, hon members, the Department of
Trade and Industry was tasked with the process of setting up an
entity, Trade and Investment SA, that was proposed when the
President met the business community and labour. This entity has to
make sure that we manage and address the difficulties and problems
encountered in the regulatory process, which many people in business
had raised on an ongoing basis. They had advocated that they would
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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like to see a once-stop shop where all matters concerning investment
would be processed and dealt with in just one office. Government
responded positively to this.
The government agreed that this should be set up. So, Trade and
Investment SA, this one-stop shop, has been set up to fast-track
investments in South Africa, to assist those who want to invest in
our country and to ensure that all the difficulties and challenges
they may well have experienced are addressed very quickly.
So, this is a service that combines all government services in one
office and it fast-tracks the whole process of investing in our
country. It has now been set up and the good thing is that it was
set up with the full participation of the private sector. Government
and the private sector worked together to set this unit up. It has
been launched in the Department of Trade and Industry.
What does it entail? It combines the services that are given by
Sars, the Department of Home Affairs, the Department of
Environmental Affairs, the Department of Water and Sanitation,
including services regarding the importing and exporting permits
that you need when you have to set up a business or invest in our
country.
Now, this recently played out when South Africa was fortunate enough
to have attracted the Beijing Automotive Industry Holding Company,
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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BAIC, that has invested R11 billion in our country in Kuga where
they are going to produce 50 000 cars per annum and possibly employ
9 000 people to set it up. At the end, up to 4 000 people will get
employment.
The fast-tracking of this investment process was done through this
unit that has been set up. It is now being populated by people from
the various government departments like Sars, the Department of Home
Affairs, the Department of Environmental Affairs, the Department of
Water and Sanitation and it is going to give great assistance to the
investment community. It is going to shorten the time in which
companies can get registered and it will ensure that companies be
operational as quickly as possible.
We did this as response to the issues and concerns that were raised
by the private sector and we believe that it is a clear
demonstration of how government, the private sector and indeed,
labour can work together to address problems and challenges that we
have encountered along the way.
So, this is a real practical effect of how well we can work
together. With this, we can move on to other major challenges that
may well stand in the way. It is a very good springboard and it
stands out as a really good example of how effective we can become
if government and business work together. Thank you.
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Mr M KHAWULA: Sihlalo ohloniphekile, ngiyathokoza Mhlonishwa Sekela
LikaMongameli ... [Hon Chairperson, thank you hon Deputy President
...]
Hon Deputy President, it has been reported that markets in South
Africa have been negatively hit by the Hawks-versus-Minister Gordhan
saga to the tune of about R10,2 billion outflow that was lost to the
country in equities and bonds. This is the second largest lost
following the ―Nenegate‖ outflow loss in a space of four days
between 10 and 13 December, to the tune of plus, minus R8 billion.
I again refer to your surprise when you were in Kigali in May at the
World Economic Forum, WEF, Africa where the hon Deputy President was
surprised by the turnaround time to set up a business. The Deputy
President was talking about four hours and the response by the
President of Rwanda was that it was not four hours but three hours
to set up a business in Rwanda.
In the case of South Africa, we are also racing against time and
circumstances. Is government not removing hurdles but at the same
time, creating even more hurdles, which even undermine the one-stop
shop that we are setting up to deal with these hurdles when a
government entity fights another government entity? It is removing
hurdles, but at the same time, it is creating more hurdles to
undermine the very work that we are doing as government.
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Chair, on my return from Kigali, when I
asked our Department of Trade and Industry, DTI, about how long it
takes to set up a business, they told me that we do a lot better. We
are able to set up a company in a much shorter period of time. So,
that filled me with a great deal of joy.
Coming to the heart of the question that you have asked, I am on
record to say that a government that functions well, a state that
functions well is a state that does not wage war against itself. I
have said that and I would like to repeat it here again that if we
want to function well as South Africa inc, we have to be a people
that do not wage war against ourselves. [Applause.]
What that means is that state institutions should not be shooting
against each other. They should be co-operating, they should be
working well with each other and when you talk about creating more
obstacles, having said this, I am absolutely certain that the
message is sinking. It has sunk and this is one of the obstacles
that we will be able to remove so that we work as a cohesive
government, work as a cohesive state, united in our quest to ensure
that South Africans get a better life.
That is the objective that we should all be focussing on. We must
make sure that our country succeeds and the economy of our country
works well. We should desist from doing anything that is going to
undermine the efficacy and growth of our economy.
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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Yesterday, we received really good news that in the last quarter, we
grew by 3,3% and we would like that to continue. [Applause.] It
surprised and shocked some people, who I think firstly, did not
expect it and secondly, did not wish us well. It begins to show that
this economy, which is a resilient economy that rests on the
shoulders of the South African people and workers, is an economy
that is strong and it can bounce back.
Yesterday, our economy gave us a vision of its ability to bounce
back to an economy that can continue to grow and produce the types
of jobs that will reduce our unemployment levels.
So, I repeat, we need to be a country that functions in a cohesive
way, a country where we are not fighting amongst ourselves, and that
is right across the board. We need to be united. Thank you.
[Applause.]
Ms N P KONI: Thank you, Chairperson. According to reports and
research, looking at the scourge of illicit financial flows in all
its manifestations, there is a growing consensus that before African
countries set up structures to attract investment, it is important
to do everything humanly possible to reduce illicit financial flows.
The last time the EFF raised this issue we were dismissed and told
that it is being resolved.
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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Deputy President, before we go all out to make it easy for
investors, how serious are we about illicit financial flows and what
is the country doing today that is different to what we did before
to deal with illicit financial flows?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you, hon Chair. I’m glad to notice that
in this House we are focussing on issues of the economy and we are
all concerned about how we can ensure that our economy continues to
grow. That is very pleasing to me.
Our Treasury is on record as saying that they are focussing on this
issue of illicit flows. It should be a matter of concern to all of
us because illicit financial flows from our country means that we
lose money to revenue, which is the Treasury, and we therefore have
to find ways of identifying areas where there is leakage — leakage
of monies that are being syphoned out of our country in whatever
way, shape or form.
So, there is focus and Treasury is usually very meticulous in doing
this type of thing. I’m sure that in conducting their work they are
actually identifying a number of areas that can be plugged and where
they can prevent money from flowing out.
I do not have the details right now but I know for a fact that
Treasury is busy with this. From a principled point of view one can
state that it cannot ever be acceptable that South Africans can lose
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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tax money that should be paid legitimately to our government, and
which flows out through all these illicit ways of syphoning money
out of the country.
Ms M C DIKGALE: Thank you, hon Chairperson. Deputy President, the
Minister of Trade and Industry, Minister Rob Davies, recently
launched a R100 million Dursots and All Joy Tomato Processing Plant
in Modjadjiskloof near Tzaneen. President Zuma recently announced
that the Gibela Rail Transport Consortium has commenced building a
one billion rand factory at Dunnottar in Ekurhuleni and that this
was part of the interventions that government is putting in place to
make South Africa a more business friendly destination for
investment.
Clearly there are signs that more companies are investing in South
Africa and that the objectives of the one stop shop are starting to
bear fruit. My question is, are there any plans of ensuring the
diversification and equitable distribution of the economic benefits
of the one stop shop to the various provinces, especially rural
provinces where the majority of our people reside?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Chair, as I indicated earlier, the one
stop shop installation or establishment started bearing fruit
through the Beijing Automotive Works international company coming to
South Africa to invest R11 billion. That demonstrated that we had
taken the right decision and that together with the business
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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community we had done the right thing of setting up a one stop shop
through which we had brought together all government agencies that
have to do with the setting up of a business or ensuring that
investment takes place orderly in our country.
So, their coming here proved once again the attractiveness of South
Africa to foreign investors. There are those who have said that
foreign investment has dried up. The coming of the Beijing
Automobile Industry Holding Company, BAIC, to our shores is clear
proof that South Africa remains an attractive investment destination
on the African continent and we continue to attract really good
businesses that come to our country.
When it comes to setting up one stop shops we found that provinces
are standing at the ready to duplicate what has been set up at a
national level. KwaZulu-Natal has already gone ahead to set up its
own one stop shop. They have done so to ensure that KwaZulu-Natal
becomes an attractive hub of foreign investment and they are
mirroring what we have done at national level. By doing so, in terms
of attracting investment as a great benefit that will flow from this
initiative they have embarked upon, they will be ensuring that the
people of KwaZulu-Natal do benefit from the investments that will be
taking place.
Remember, as investors come in they come into our country to help us
create jobs, to help us build assets in our country and to help us
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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train our people, and we should welcome them with open arms.
Obviously their coming here is based on the fact that they will obey
the laws of our country, and all the laws of our country both
transformational and otherwise. As they come in they know that this
is a country that is on a transformation journey; a country that is
trying to undo the ravages of the past. As they come they don’t only
create jobs but they are becoming our partners as we make sure that
the effects of apartheid become true history in our lives.
So, we welcome those who want to come and invest in our country and
many of them are standing in line. Many of them want to come to
South Africa because we are the type of country that is attractive
to investors. Thank you, hon Chair. [Applause.]
Mr L P M NZIMANDE: Thank you, hon Chairperson. Given the answers
that the Deputy President has given — and thank you very much hon
Deputy President for the answers to this question — particularly in
taking note of the fact that you emphasise and make a recurring call
to the fact that government should not be fighting one another, I
wanted to get your view, by way of also assuring us and the people
of South Africa, that the structures and institutions within
government on their own are strong enough to provide checks and
balances against individuals that are within those institutions,
given the fact that the state is anchored upon the strength of those
structures and institutions.
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Our state rests on very strong, durable
pillars — pillars that are made up of the institutions that we have
set up. The most important institution that we have set up is our
Constitution. That is the strongest central pillar upon which South
Africa inc is anchored. This Constitution then gives birth and gives
rise to a number of other institutions that it has set up, protects
and defends. So, our Constitution is our shield. Our Constitution is
our guide in anything that we have to do. So, the Constitution
really provides the checks and balances that we will ever need in
our country, and the various institutions that were given birth to
by our Constitution are those checks and balances. We have the
executive, we have the judiciary and we have Parliament. Those three
arms of the state are your checks and balances and through that we
are then able to have a number of other institutions.
We can be proud that we are a country that is pivoted on so many
institutions that are meant to operate under the aegis of our
Constitution, and operate well, democratically and with good
governance. Those institutions form the brakes and the accelerator
to this vehicle that is called South Africa.
With that I am absolutely certain that this vehicle will never go
off the rails because it is well anchored and it is well structured.
We have institutions that support democracy that have been set up in
terms of our Constitution and we have a number of other
nongovernmental institutions. Nongovernmental organisations that we
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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have in our country are also institutions that have an interest in
the good working of our democracy — institutions in business, in
professional bodies and all that.
So, as a country we are well endowed with good institutions. We’ve
got a very good institutional base that is forever going to make
sure that this ship does not sink. This ship called South Africa
continues to sail well, is properly balanced, is properly anchored
and is properly powered moving forward all the time. That is who we
are — the South Africa of 1994 moving forward. Thank you very much.
[Applause.]
Implementation of programmes/projects
9.
Mr
L
P
M
Nzimande
(KwaZulu-Natal:
ANC)
asked
the
Deputy
President:
Whether,
in
light
of
the
change
of
leadership
in
Tshwane,
Johannesburg and Nelson Mandela Bay (details furnished), the
Government has considered ways of ensuring that these areas (a)
do not regress and (b) continue to witness the implementation
of
the
various
(i)
anti-poverty
and
(ii)
short-term
job
creation programmes and projects; if not, why not; if so, what
are the relevant details?
CO316E
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Chair, the recent changes in government
and various structures or areas in our country, Metros,
municipalities, particularly the metros of Johannesburg, Tshwane and
Nelson Mandela Bay are not expected to negatively affect the
antipoverty programmes of national government. The Constitution
enjoins all of us, from whatever political party, to seek to address
the plight of the poor to the best of our ability. That is our
mandate as leaders of our people from whichever party we come.
Our Constitution defines a co-operative governance system that
promotes collaborative relationships between the three spheres of
government. Although local government is a sphere of government and
not an administrative arm of national or provincial spheres, the law
compels all the spheres of government to collaborate in the delivery
of services. The three spheres of government exist in a unitary
South Africa and not in a federal South Africa.
There is no part of the country that is not the responsibility of
the national government. The national government of our country has
responsibility over the entire country. There is no citizen whom the
national government is not required to serve, support or empower. It
is therefore important that all three spheres of government work
together on decision-making and co-ordinate budgets, policies and
activities particularly for those functions that cut across all
these spheres.
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The Department of Public Works and the Department of Co-operative
Governance and Traditional Affairs have institutionalised the
implementation of the Expanded Public Works Programme and Community
Work Programme across all the three spheres of government. These
programmes are institutionalised through protocol agreements that
are signed between government and the relevant implementing bodies.
The cities of Johannesburg, Tshwane and Nelson Mandela Bay have all
signed these protocol agreements and have each set targets for
Expanded Public Works Programmes as well as Community Work
Programmes. We expect that these protocols which have been properly
signed and entered into will be respected and sustained, going
forward. Our people will still expect high levels of service
delivery from whoever is in office. They expect effective
administration, transparent government and a government that is
accountable.
In addition to co-operation between the three spheres of government,
communities have ways to ensure that these metros sustain a focus on
poverty alleviation and public employment programmes. Residents can
interact with their municipalities through the Integrated
Development Planning processes and consultations, petitions,
questions to council and participation in ward committees as well.
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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We encourage communities to use these mechanisms to hold elected
public officials to account. As the Presidency, we will continue to
use structures such as the President’s Co-ordinating Council, PCC as
well as Cabinet Makgotla to improve intergovernmental co-ordination
and oversee the implementation of national priorities such as the
EPWP, Community Work Programmes as well as all the various
antipoverty programmes that have been set up. Therefore ...
Mphephethwa, lezinhlelo lezi yizona ezifunekayo kuwo wonke
amadolobha ngoba abantu bakithi bathembele kuzona futhi bazibonile
zisebenza. Lezi zinhlelo yizona ezizokwenza ukuthi sixoshe indlala.
Abantu ababesebenzisa lezi zinhlelo bathole ukuthi namanje
zisasebenza kahle impela. Sithemba ukuthi bonke omasipala abakhulu
nomasipala abanye bazoqhubeka nalama-Expanded Public Works
Programme, EPWP, noma ngabe awela kweliphi iqembu ngoba
kunesivumelwano esasayindwa. Lesi sivumelwano sithi imali izophuma
kuhulumeni kazwelonke iyofinyelela phansi le komasipala ukuze lezi
zinhlelo ziqhubekele phambili. Ngokuphendula umbuzo wakho-ke
Mphephethwa sithemba ukuthi lezi zinhlelo zizoqhubeka impela ngoba
yizona ezifunekayo. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph
follows.)
[Mphephethwa (Clan name of the Nzimandes), these programmes are the
ones that are needed in every town because our people depend on them
and they have seen them working. These same programmes will be used
to fight hunger. People who use these programmes found that they are
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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working very well. We trust that all the metros and the other
municipalities will continue with these Expanded Public Works
Programme, EPWP, irrespective of the party they fall under as there
are protocols that were signed. This protocol states that funds will
come from the national government and get to the municipalities so
that these programmes can continue. Then in answering your question
Mphephethwa (Clan name of the Nzimandes), we hope that these
programmes will continue because they are needed. [Applause.]]
Mr L P M NZIMANDE: Hon Chairperson ...
... Ndi dovhe ndi lumelise ndi ri ndi matsheloni Mufarisa
Muphuresidennde!
MUFARISA MUPHURESIDENNDE: Ndi masiari!
Vho L P M NZIMANDE: Ndi masiari!
MUFARISA MUPHURESIDENNDE: Ndaa! (Translation of Tshivenḓa paragraphs
follows.)
[... Once again let me greet the Deputy President and say, good
morning!
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Afternoon!
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
PAGE: 26 of 73
Mr L P M NZIMANDE: Afternoon!
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hello!]
Mnu L P M NZIMANDE: Selishayile ihora lesi-3 sekuyo shaya elesi-4.
Sekela Mongameli ngiyafisa ukuthola isipiliyoni sokusebenza
kuhulumeni kazwelonke kulezi zindawo ebese zivele zingekho ngaphansi
kokuphathwa ubuholi benhlangano enkulu kaKhongolose ukuthi nisebenze
kanjani, nalezi zinhlaka zinisize kanjani ukuthi nikwazi
ukubambisana ngibala nje izindawo ezifana noCape-Town, Western Cape
kanye Midvaal? Masithole nje ukuthi ukusebenzisana kuhle kanjani
ukuze ithemba lethu liqine ngempela ekutheni kuyoba khona
ukusebenzisana nanokuthi abantu bethu kuzoqhubeka ukuthi bathole
izidingo zabo njengoba bekwenzeka kuhulumeni kazwelonke nangendlela
ebesivele senza ngayo. Ngiyabonga Sekela Mongameli.
ISEKELA LIKAMONGAMELI: Mphephethwa uyibeka kahle impela ngoba ubuza
ukuthi lapha eCape Town naseWestern Cape siqhuba kanjani kanye
nasendaweni ezifana noMidvaal. Ngingasho eqinisweni ukuthi lezi
zinhlelo ezifana namaEPWP akhona nalapha eWestern Cape. Nabo
bayaziqhuba kepha ngendlela yabo. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs
follows.)
[Mr L P M NZIMANDE: It is already 3 o’clock and we are heading for 4
o’clock now. Hon Deputy President, I wish to get experience of how
the national government is working in all these areas that were
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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already not under the leadership of the great ANC, in order to
understand that how have you been running things and that how have
these structures assisted you in working together in places like
Cape Town, the Western Cape and the Midvaal? Just tell us how great
is working together to for our trust would be strengthened in the
sense that there will be co-operation and that our people will
continue receiving their services as it was happening with the
national government and like the way we have been doing things.
Thank you, Deputy President.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mphephethwa (Clan name of the Nzimandes)you
put your question well because you are asking how are we running
things here in Cape Town, the
Western Cape and places like Midvaal.
I can honestly say that programmes like EPWP also exist here in the
Western Cape. They too run these programmes but they do that in
their own way.]
They do have EPWPs because the EPWP is a national initiative which
has proven over and over that it can be a good response at times of
slow economic growth, and it is a historical initiative. You could
say, yes, it was designed in various other countries but we, as
South Africans, have perfected the public works programme
initiative.
Many countries around the world come to this country to learn how we
have perfected the public works programme. This is because they find
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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that the way we are implementing public works is an excellent way of
responding to situations where there is slow economic growth and low
job creation. This is an initiative in which people are trained to
get into various crafts and skills and where they are prepared for
the world of work. This has been so to a point where we have had
millions of South Africans who have participated in these programmes
and the majority of them – we’ll record that they – have benefited.
Mphephethwa siyaqhuba sifuna ukuthi siqhube siye phambili
nalezinhlelo nalapho uKhongolose engaphethe khona. Lapha eWestern
Cape uKhongole akaphethe kodwa lezinhlelo ziyaqhubeka futhi
ziqhubeka kahle kunjalo nje zisungulwe uKhongolose kuzwelonke futhi
ziyasetshenziswa ngoba ziyimpendulo efanele. Ngiyabonga [Ihlombe.]
(Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[Mphephethwa (Clan name of the Nzimandes) we are moving forward and
we want to continue with these programmes even to the areas where
the ANC is not in control. The ANC is not in control here in the
Western Cape but these programmes are run and they work whilst they
were initiated by the ANC nationally – they are used because they
are an appropriate answer. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr L B GAEHLER: Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo, uphantse wandichana apha
kulo mbuzo kodwa ke ndiye ndazama ukuwulungiselela. [Hon
Chairperson, you almost trapped me in your question but I’ve tried
to manoeuvre it.]
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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Past allegations and counter accusations are that a punitive
approach has been used where there are changes of leadership and
such a stance has and would have a negative effect on our economy
and transformation agenda whereby projects from national and the
province are implemented without the involvement of leaders of such
municipalities that are not governed by the ruling party. Now, hon
Deputy President, the question is, would you please take the nation
into your confidence that both the national and provincial
governments will not act punitively towards Tshwane, Johannesburg
and Nelson Mandela Bay Metropolitan Municipalities given the change
of leadership or regimes in those municipalities?
Uyivile Mhlekazi? [Have you heard Sir?]
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Phinda le ndawo yokugqibela. [Repeat the last
part.]
Mr L B GAEHLER: What I am saying is, would you take the nation into
your confidence that both the national and provincial governments
will not act punitively towards Tshwane, Johannesburg and Nelson
Mandela Bay Metropolitan Municipalities given the change of
leadership or regimes in those municipalities?
Uyibambile ke Mhlekazi? [Did you get it Sir?]
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Ndivile, ndivile Mhlekazi. [I’ve heard, I’ve
heard Sir.]
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Chair, I apologise for responding before
you gave me permission. I did say in my initial input that what we
stand for is implementing co-operative governance. Co-operative
governance means that all three spheres of government must work well
together. That is inscribed in our Constitution and it is in the
spirit of the Constitution that we should ensure that there is
harmony in the workings of government. That is something that we are
prepared to advance and take forward.
National government is there for the people of South Africa as a
whole. National government takes care of all our citizens. A good
example is that the ANC-led government is not in power in the
Western Cape nor is it in power in Cape Town but it has always made
sure that national government, the Western Cape provincial
government and the Cape Town Metropolitan government work very well
in unison and a harmonious way.
I can say to you without any doubt that the ANC-led government is
not a punitive government. We are not petty. We are not so small as
to want to be punitive to against our own people. If we were to do
so, we would be taking action against our very own people. We look
at South Africans, wherever they are, as being part of our people as
a whole. Whether they voted for DA, EFF or whatever party, they
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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remain the people of South Africa, who must be served by government.
[Applause.] Therefore, on that issue I can give you assurance
without any doubt whatsoever, that we remain firm as the national
government that we are here to serve all the people of South Africa.
We do this based on the principle of the Freedom Charter that South
Africa belongs to all the people who live in it. Therefore, the
government that we lead is there for all the people of South Africa
and they are our people as a whole. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Ms T J MOKWELE: Chairperson, thank you, Mr Ramaphosa.
[Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order, hon Mokwele, the hon Deputy
President is a Member of Parliament; he is hon member in this House.
Ms T J MOKWELE: Hon Cyril Ramaphosa Deputy President of the ANC, it
is incorrect to say Metros were witnessing implementation and
improvements of pro-poor projects. Take Johannesburg, for example,
people who are living in Alexandra, Diepsloot and other townships
continue to live in abject poverty. But the city was spending all
the money to ensure that people in Sandton and suburbs continue to
get the best services, which are roads that are maintained regularly
and there is always water where the rich are.
The question that I am posing to you, Deputy President of the ANC is
what national government is going to do to ensure that provincial
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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government to not withhold support and resources to the Metros where
the ANC does not govern. I am posing this question to you because of
the experience we have, that when the ANC is not governing the
municipality the provincial government gets into that municipality
and impose section 139(1)(b) for them to have the access to the
control of that municipality. So, I am asking you that besides the
EPa Wena Popeye Projects (EPWP) that you are instilling to our
people, which are not effective and does not contribute to any
development of poor people; what are you going to do with that?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Chair, I have said this on two occasions
and I will say it again that the ANC-led government is: firstly not
punitive, secondly it is not petty, and it is not sectional. It is
very inclusive and it seeks to act in the interest of all our
people. Provincial government get their equitable share of the
budget from the national government.
If you look at our budget and how our budget is structured, hon
member, you will find that there is a structure that ensures that
provinces do get their equitable share and we have a financial
commission as well that ensure that moneys that should go to our
provinces do get to our provinces. You know that, hence I ask what
the real import of the question is, because if we know that and we
know that we live in a constitutional state we will also know that
what the hon member is saying is not something that could happen
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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because provinces do get their fare share and the national
government will never be able to holdback what provinces should get.
In the end it is all based on co-operative governance. Co-operatives
governance is written all over our Constitution and it is something
that we want to inculcate in the minds of leaders, particular
leaders who are here, like you hon member, you should know that cooperative governance is not just a pipe dream, it is something that
we want to see working in effect so that all of us should be assured
that living in a Constitutional state means that we are not open to
the whims and the likes of individuals; everything happens as it
should happen in terms of our Constitution.
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Chairperson, to you hon Deputy President,
please tell us the constant deprecation of reality from the ANC is
such a pity, I know you know that. Deputy President, the DA-run
municipalities are already making progress; we would like to know
from you, for example, Herman Mashaba is – please protect me hon
Chairperson!
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: You are protected.
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: ... is making progress in the housing
waiting list, and it is available to the public within three months.
Mogale City, Tshwane and Nelson Mandela Bay are already moving
towards ending the corruption and are becoming more transparent
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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everyday. The luxury cars, unnecessary expenses are a thing of the
past where the DA governs. It is a proven fact that we govern better
than the ANC, and I would like to know from you, hon Deputy
President; has the government considered ways of ensuring that all
other municipalities in South Africa are delivering better services
and rooting out corruption to its lowest degree; stop luxury cars
purchases and unnecessary expenses on parties and the like in a
concerted manner. It certainly did not happen in most municipalities
in the past, what are you ensuring and committing to us, regarding
this?
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Mpambo-Sibhukwana, your question is
actually a new question which deals with rooting out corruption in
the municipality. The principal question and the subsequent
supplementary questions will worth the change in leadership and the
relationship towards service delivery between the national and the
municipalities. However, I am going to leave it to you, Deputy
President to deal with it if you want to but it is a new question.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Chair, what I am able to say is that the ANCled government at national, provincial and at local government level
is committed to deal with corruption, to root out corruption and
make sure that those who are corrupt and abuse state funds and
resources are brought to book without any doubt whatsoever. That I
am able to say and we have been on a journey of improving our
governance and this will continue to improve on an ongoing basis. We
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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have also seen it in outcomes of the Auditor-General reporting where
he reported that things are getting better and better in terms of
the finances of our local government structures.
We are on a journey moving towards perfection and good governance
and that is something that one can testify to, where we will find
corruption, untoward behaviour we will deal with it effectively to
make sure that we root out corruption from the face of South African
body politic. [Applause.]
Implementation of national minimum wage
10.
Ms T J Mokwele (North West: EFF) asked the Deputy President:
Whether
he
will
speed-up
the
process
to
ensure
the
implementation of the national minimum wage before the end of
2016 as it has been more than four years since the discussions
in this regard started at the National Economic Development and
Labour Council (details furnished); if not, why not; if so,
what are the relevant details?
CO313E
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Chair, in the President’s State of the
Nation Address on 17 June 2014 - just over two years ago - President
Zuma called on the National Economic Development and Labour Council,
Nedlac, Partners under the leadership of the Deputy President to
establish a process to address wage inequality and protracted and
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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violent strikes. In other words, to look at labour stability in our
country.
Structured work on a national minimum wage began following the
Nedlac Labour Relations Indaba in November 2014. This summit tasked
a committee of principals; people are principals, who came from
government, from business, from labour and communities; and these
are all the leaders of these four entities. They were meant to
determine the modalities of a national minimum wage and measures
that can be taken to stabilise labour relations.
Negotiations on a national minimum wage have been taking place
within a technical task team that was set up to look at the whole
issue of a national minimum wage in a very very introspective way.
And the social partners have come up with a number of proposals that
will lead us at arriving at a national minimum wage. In addition to
discussions on the level at which a wage should be set, the
technical task team has been considering issues such as: should
there be workers who should be excluded from a minimum wage that
will be set up? They’ve also been looking at, should there be
exemptions from the national minimum wage? They’ve also been looking
at the relationship between a future national minimum wage and
existing sectoral wage determinations.
As members might know, that there are a number of wage
determinations that affect a number of workers in our country, for
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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example, domestic workers’ wages are governed by a wage
determinations, agricultural workers’ wages are governed by a wage
determination, so the task team has been looking at all this to see
how best all these different approaches can be reconciled.
While progress has been made on several issues of principle, there
are a number of matters on which the social partners have not yet
underlined, not yet reached agreement. They have, however, reached a
number of agreements on various matters of principle.
To encourage progress in these negotiations, I have recently
appointed – in consultation with the committee of principals – a
seven person panel to advice on the appropriate level at which the
national minimum wage could be set. This advisory panel is made up
of really outstanding people with great knowledge; somebody from the
International Labour Organisation, a number of professionals and
academics from universities, a number of professionals who are well
vest on labour matters as well as on economic matters.
They are, as a panel, in the process of reviewing all available
research into the socio-economic potential of a national minimum
wage being set up. They’re also considering international
experience. They have given themselves time to look at what other
countries have done. They’ve looked at Brazil, Malaysia, Germany,
the United Kingdom and a number of other countries. So, the panel is
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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expected to report back to me and the committee of principals
towards the end of next month.
This is vitally important work because we need to ensure that the
national minimum wage makes a meaningful difference I the lives of
the working poor and in their communities. At the same time, we need
to ensure that the national minimum wage does not undermine our
efforts to grow the economy and to create jobs on a big scale.
As a country, we’re keen to have a national minimum wage in place as
soon as possible. All the parties that are involved in this process
want it as soon as possible. The good thing is that they are the
people who are sitting at the table. They are the people who are
sitting around the table crafting this minimum wage. None have left
the table, they’re all still there and we’re looking at the most
effective way of implementing a national minimum wage.
Agreement has been reached that, yes, we shall have a national
minimum wage and the time when a national minimum wage will be
announced will be the time when agreement has finally been reached.
We will not be able to announce a national minimum wage before an
agreement is reached. Much as people may want us to announce
something that has not yet been agreed, it has to wait for an
agreement. That is the best way of handling things, you don’t
announce what you don’t know, you only announce what has been agreed
to. Thank you very much.
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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Ms T J MOKWELE: It’s clear that the Deputy President does not know,
as government, when are they going to implement the minimum wage?
Deputy President of the ANC, we have been in this engagement for too
long and we know very well that this cannot be postponed forever
[Interjection.]
Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: Hon Chair, hon Mokwele consistently addresses the
Deputy President in his capacity as the Deputy President of the ANC
and his presence here is that of the Deputy President of the
country. I think hon Mokwele is out of order.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Yes. Deputy
President.
Ms T J MOKWELE: The delay tactics by business and Deputy President
is not ... [Interjection.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Please
continue.
Ms T J MOKWELE: ... is not going to help anyone. Every time we get
an opportunity to ask you - Deputy President of the ANC - a
question, we are not getting anything substantial [Interjection.]
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Mokwele,
hon Mokwele.
Ms T J MOKWELE: ... Deputy President Cyril Ramaphosa. Instead Mr
Ramaphosa [Interjection.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: I was going to
invite you to tell us whether there is any reason you do not
recognise the Deputy President of the Republic of South Africa as
such.
Ms T J MOKWELE: Instead, Deputy President Ramaphosa bragged about
the new condom, how comfortable they are and that they don’t make
noise as if has tested them somewhere. [Laughter.] It is clear that
... [Interjection.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Mokwele,
you are now completely deviating from the main question you put to
the Deputy President and it is on the implementation of the minimum
wage [Interjection.]
Ms T J MOKWELE: I’m going there [Interjection.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: You are ... I
am addressing you. You are allocated two minutes to make your
question. That two minutes you can use to preamble, to preface your
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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question but your supplementary question is made on the principal
question you have put. Please stick to your question.
Ms T J MOKWELE: I’m sticking to it Chair. I’m [Interjection.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Your principal
question has nothing to do with the condoms [Interjection.]
Ms T J MOKWELE: I’m saying the Deputy President is busy bragging
with condoms instead of him giving us [Interjection.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Mokwele,
your principal question has nothing to do with condoms. You will
stick to a supplementary question which has everything to do with
the response elicited from the response of the Deputy President on
the minimum wage. Your principal question please. [Interjection.]
You’re out of order.
Ms T J MOKWELE: Okay Chair, can I continue?
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Please
continue.
Ms T J MOKWELE: That statement is relevant to what I’m going to ask
the Deputy President. To stop bragging about condoms, rather put
effort on making sure that the implementation of minimum wage is
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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there and implemented on time. That is what I wanted to say.
[Interjection.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: That is your
question ma’am?
Ms T J MOKWELE: Yes. My question to you, Deputy President, is that –
please – can you make a commitment, can the Deputy President start
making concrete commitment that will be beneficial to workers and
tell us when can the workers expect decent and living national
minimum wage? Don’t say you don’t know and I expect you, Deputy
President of the ANC and of the country, that please ... you
answered us ...
... Motlatsamoporesidente O a ntshosetsa, ga ke itse gore o dirang
[The Deputy President is threatening me.] [Interjection.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Mokwele,
you invited that because you are supposed to address whoever is here
through the Chair. [Laughter.]
Ms T J MOKWELE: But, Chair, I am very serious. The Deputy President
... [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: What did he
do?
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
PAGE: 43 of 73
Ms T J MOKWELE: He is asking for my number. [Laughter.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Mokwele,
please conclude your question. You are of course, if it is true that
he is asking for your number, in a democratic country and you can
say no, to giving him your number.
Ms T J MOKWELE: No, I cannot give him my number. [Laughter.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: So, conclude
your question. Your question is?
Ms T J MOKWELE: When is he going to implement. We are tired of him
coming here everyday telling us about National Economic Development
and Labour Council, Nedlac and telling us about the commission.
Today he is telling us that he has appointed seven people. Next year
he is going to say those seven people have ... [Interjections.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: No, no, no,
you have put your question.
Ms T J MOKWELE: He must be able to tell us when he is going to
implement. That’s it. And I am not going to give him my number.
[Laughter.]
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Deputy
President give me a ... [Interjections.] You know, hon members ...
[Interjections.] Order, order, members. Order! Order, members. You
put a question to a member of the executive, they respond to you and
you conclude that in fact they don’t know what they are talking
about. I think we must take a rule ... We have got a rule on
anticipation but we do not have a rule on prejudgement. What hon
Mokwele is saying is that, when the executive member’s response is,
―The processes are in place‖ then he does not know.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Chair, I am happy to respond to hon Mokwele on
all the issues that she had raised. With your permission, I will
touch on the first one – the condoms. It is possible that she is
treating this matter flippantly, very flippantly when saying that I
come here to talk about condoms. Yes, of course I do because my
responsibility, hon member, is to make sure that we spread the
message about the prevention of HIV/Aids. That is what we are doing.
We are doing precisely that. [Applause.] And I am very pleased that
we speak about it here, in this House - in this Parliament. It is
about time that people like hon Mokwele get the message that we are
here to save lives. We are here to prevent a disease that is
spreading in our country and we want all our people, young people in
particular, to be aware that we have a pandemic underway.
[Interjections.]
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
PAGE: 45 of 73
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon Deputy
President, give me a second. Hon Mokwele, why are you on your feet?
Ms T J MOKWELE: I am rising on a point of order, Chair.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: What is your
point of order?
Ms T J MOKWELE: My point of order is: The Deputy President is
misleading South Africans. [Interjections.] I am very much concerned
about HIV. My statement was not about the condoms and unprotected
sex. My message is that the Deputy President must also prioritise
important issues like ... for our people to have quality and
development.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Hon member,
what is your point of order?
Ms T J MOKWELE: The point of order is: The Deputy President must not
mislead South Africans.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Thank you. Can
I address you on that? [Interjections.]
Ms T J MOKWELE: We are concerned. That is why we have single
partners.
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
PAGE: 46 of 73
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: No, Ma’m, you
have made your point, please take you seat.
Ms T J MOKWELE: He cannot tell us that a condom does not make noise
if he sleeps with one person.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Please take
your seat. Hon members, every time when Members of this House,
especially members of the EFF, are unable to deal with the debate
they rise and say the speaker on the podium is misleading the House.
Now every time you do that you must be very careful. I have said
this even before, right here in this very chair. You stood on a
point of ... When you started making your supplementary ... I am
speaking to you, hon Mokwele ... you said that the Deputy President
bragged about condoms instead of prioritising the minimum wage. When
he starts to respond to you on the importance of spreading the
message on condoms you then say he is now misleading the country.
Let me tell you, you are out of order on that point of order.
Proceed, Deputy President.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Chair, One will not continue wasting one’s
breath on this matter, save to say, I could never mislead the
country on such an important matter which is about saving lives. It
is important that our people should know about how we can all join
hands and work together to prevent this pandemic from spreading. As
it is now we are facing serious challenges in terms of how this
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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pandemic is spreading particularly amongst young girls and young
women. The message therefore has to be spread and we will not hold
back from doing that. It is for that reason that I am glad we raise
it in this House so that the message can spread more broadly.
When it comes to the minimum wage – which is the question that she
asked - we have a number of social partners such as, trade unions,
business, communities and government that are working together to
arrive at an agreement. It’s not an agreement that is going to be
crafted by me as Deputy President, but an agreement that is going to
be arrived at by all these social partners. All social partners
therefore have the responsibility. And let me remind the hon member
that this is happening under the urge of Nedlac – a legislative
institution that we have in this country and that has enabled us to
reach agreements on a number of matters. This process continues with
the participation of all these four partners working together to
arrive at an agreement. Thank you.
Mr F ESSACK: Hon Chairperson, to the hon Deputy President of South
Africa, is good to see you in the House.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you, Sir.
Mr F ESSACK: Deputy President, the minimum wage will go a long way
in reducing the huge inequality that we are experiencing in South
Africa, that is, economically. We are at the same time, of course,
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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experiencing low economic growth as we all can realise and
understand. In this economic climate of low or almost absolute no
growth in the economy, the worry is that business may reject the
minimum wage because they cannot afford it. And this will, of
course, lead them to retrenchment of staff. So, my question to you,
Mr Deputy President is: What measures are in place to prevent the
impact it would have if the implementation of minimum wage under the
current economic climate is rejected by business.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Chairperson, one of the reasons we appointed
the advisory panel is precisely to address this type of challenge.
We do not want to set a minimum wage that will be too high and
result in destroying jobs. Similarly, we do not want to set a
minimum wage that will be too low and not to have an impact on wage
inequality.
So we have to have a very delicate balance to see that we achieve
both. It must be a meaningful minimum wage but it must also not be a
minimum wage that will have no impact.
Brazil instituted a minimum wage and soon thereafter they were able
to see inequality dropping.
Now, one can go into long studies, research or debates about how
that happened. What I think we are moving towards is to look at
research and experiences from other countries and see how best we
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can create a good balance that will give us an outcome that our
economy can also absorb and live with.
Clearly, this argument has been put forward by business. They are
committed to having a national minimum wage. That has been agreed
upon. All we are dealing with now are the modalities and the level.
Right now, the advisory panel is looking at a number of proposals
that have been put forward. There are proposals on various levels. I
can tell you that, with regard to levels, we think we are within the
consensus-building range. We are getting closer and closer. Or
rather, the partners are getting closer and closer to one another to
have a minimum wage that will be broadly acceptable across the
board.
Of course, there will always be people who will argue differently,
but I can give assurance that we are going to want to have a minimum
wage that will not be debilitating or negative for our country by
destroying millions of jobs. At the same time, we would also like to
have a minimum wage that will have an impact and lift a number of
our people out of poverty or inequality, largely, and have an impact
on inequality and bring about a good semblance of wage equality in
one measure or another.
So we are doing it very carefully; as carefully as we possibly can.
Thank you.
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Ms B ENGELBRECHT: Hon Deputy President, in 1996 there was a very
interesting comment made in the Wall Street Journal. The comment was
that, just as no physicist can claim that water can run uphill, so
too can no self-respecting economist claim that an increase in wage
will create an increase in employment.
This statement is very interesting, especially if we look at the
statistics of the agricultural sector. A year after the minimum
wages were initiated, 150 000 jobs were lost in the industry. This
equates to a loss of 17% of employment in the agricultural sector.
Could you comment on this, please?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, hon Chair, we are aware that, soon after
the wage determination was published by the Minister, it led to
quite a number of jobs being lost. That situation came about because
it came as a shock. Many employers had not anticipated it. They had
not budgeted for it. And when it arrived, it shocked them into
retrenching workers.
A number of those workers have now been re-employed. I don’t know
whether your research told you so. Our research tells us that a
number of jobs that were lost have now been regained. Yes, as much
as there are still a number of workers who are unemployed, that has
shrunk to a minimum.
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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This came about, as I said, because of the shock. It was very
sudden. The process that we are involved in is going to be such that
all employers will be aware that a minimum wage is coming. They will
re-balance themselves. They will re-budget. They will prepare
themselves for the coming of the minimum wage. It is not going to be
sudden. It is not just gong to be imposed on them. It is going to be
a [process that they are fully aware of and they will be able to –
as they say in business – price it in. They will be able to price in
an increased wage and they will be able to see the impact that is
likely to have on their business.
So, that gives me the assurance that, with the type of careful
approach to the introduction of a minimum wage, where there will be
a clear timeframe, where businesses will be able to prepare
themselves, we will not see a huge number of jobs being lost.
The other important thing of course is that the business community
is involved in the talks. They represent a plethora of companies.
They are sitting at the table and, as we negotiate, they keep
checking with their own constituency. Of course, there will come a
time when there is a little bit of tension in as far as the level is
concerned, but it is something that will not come as a bolt from the
blue or a big surprise for them.
So I think we will be able to manage it as carefully as we possibly
can. There will be timeframes for implementation. If there are
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companies that will face difficulties and so forth, there will be a
mechanism through which they will come forward, give full details
and ask for an exemption for a while, and thereafter become part of
the process.
These are some of the things that are being negotiated. I am sure
that the way in which we are approaching it is so positive and so
practical as to be able to help businesses to accommodate and absorb
an increased minimum wage.
It is also possible, by the way, that you will find that a majority
of the businesses are already above the minimum wage. That is
something that could be a possibility.
Remember, the farmworkers’ wages have been increased. The domestic
workers’ wages have been increased. That already gives us an
indication of how minimum wage will be absorbed.
Nks T WANA: Sihlalo, mandibhekise phaya kuSekela Mongameli welizwe
loMzantsi Afrika. Kuqala mandibulele le nyhweba yokuma apha, kuba
nasemakhaya bayayibukela le nkqubo kwaye bayayivuyela. Umbuzo endiza
nawo Mongameli, ngowokuba niza kubagada njani oosomashishini
abakhulu abaza kusebenzisa eli thuba lalo mvuzo ophantsi oqingqiweyo
ngokuthi bathobele abasebenzi babo kwizinga lalo mvuzo ophantsi
oqingqiweyo? Kaloku baza kube beyisekelezele kwinto yokuba besithi
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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ngurhulumente oze nalo myinge, besitsho beseqhingeni lokwenza
ingeniso. Enkosi Mongameli waseMzantsi Afrika.
USEKELA MONGAMELI: Lo mcimbi womvuzo ophantsi oqingqiweyo uza
kwenziwa ngolu hlobo. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)
[Ms T WANA: Hon Chairperson, let me have a word with the hon Deputy
President of South Africa. First, let me thank the opportunity for
me to stand here, because they watch this programme at home and they
like it. The question I have hon President is that, how are you
going to monitor big businessmen who will use this opportunity of
absolute minimum wage by decreasing wages of their employees to meet
this level of the absolute minimum wage? They will do it and say
it’s based on what has been approved by government, while they are
making a strategy for making profit. Thank you hon President of
South Africa.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: [The issue of absolute minimum wage will be
done like this.]
It will be the absolute minimum below which employers will not be
allowed to pay. At the same time, we do not expect that those who
are at a higher level of the minimum wage will have their wages
decreased.
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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Ayisayikuthotyelwa phantsi imivuzo yabo bathe kratya kumvuzo
ophantsi oqingqiweyo ukwenzela ukuba ilingane nomvuzo ophantsi
oqingqiweyo. Kaloku xa besenza ngolo hlobo baya kuba benza into embi
kakhulu. Kukho imithetho enqanda ukwehliswa kwemivuzo yabasebenzi
kungathethiswananga nabo. Ngoko ke andiboni ukuba abasebenzi
bangavuma ukuba bahliselwe imivuzo xa becebisa njalo oongxowankulu.
(Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[Wages of those who earn more will not be decreased to be equal to
absolute minimum wage. If they do so they will be practising
something very bad. There are laws that restrict the decrease of
employees’ wages without communicating with them. So I don’t see
employees accepting their wages being decreased when their employers
suggest so.]
So I don’t see that as something that will happen. In any event ...
... banemibutho yabo abasebenzi abaninzi. Imibutho yabasebenzi
ayisokuze ivume ukuba imivuzo yamalungu yabo ithotywe. Le nto
yomvuzo ophantsi oqingqiweyo asiyonto ekufuneka siyoyike.
Masiyijonge ngethemba lokuba iza kuba yinto entle neza kuphucula
imivuzo yabo baphantsi. Ukuba abanye abasebenzi bathe kratya kulo
mmiselo, baya kuhlala belapho baze baqhubeke ukuya phezulu. Enkosi.
(Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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[... most of them have their labour unions. Labour unions can never
allow wages of their members to be decreased. We must not be afraid
of this absolute minimum wage. Let’s look at it with the hope that
it will be a good thing that will improve wages of those who earn
less. If employees earn more than this, they will remain in their
level and continue increasing from there. Thank you.]
Nuclear deal
11.
Mr W F Faber (Northern Cape: DA) asked the Deputy President:
(1)
Whether the Government has entered into a nuclear deal
with any country; if so, what are the reasons for the
procurement process being stalled; if not,
(2)
why has the Government failed to disclose ten documents to
the
Southern
African
Faith
Communities’
Environment
Institute and Earthlife Africa Johannesburg in the nuclear
case?
CO310E
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Chair, government has not entered into a
nuclear deal with any country. Government remains firmly committed
to an open, fair and transparent procurement process and to
implementing the programme at a scale and pace that our country can
afford. A request for proposals for a new nuclear build programme of
9 600MW will be released to the market during this financial year in
line with the Cabinet’s decision that was taken in December 2015.
The Department of Energy is currently consulting with a number of
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stakeholders – relevant stakeholders for that matter – to finalise
the documentation.
Government is committed in implementing an appropriate energy mix
comprised of fossil fuel, nuclear, renewable gas and hydro. This is
to ensure security of electricity supply and ultimately to support
our economy’s growth. In pursuance of a suitable energy mix,
government is determined that our investment in generation capacity
should be evidence-based. It should also be sustainable, but
affordable.
As indicated by the Department of Energy in December 2015, any
decision to proceed further with a nuclear build programme will only
take place after the request for proposal process has been completed
and a final funding model has been developed. The documents to which
the hon member refers have been requested by applicants in a review
application presently being opposed by the Minister of Energy and
the President of the Republic of South Africa. As this matter is the
subject of an ongoing litigation in the Western Cape High Court, it
would not be appropriate to comment directly on the documents that
have been requested. In the end in this type of situation one has to
rely on the rules of discovery which will be applied in this regard.
The courts have rules of discovery where you have to present your
documents after a discovery has been asked for. And the court will
make a decision if needs be on their disclosure.
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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This is about the best that one can say on this matter. In the end,
as I indicated, the process of procuring nuclear energy for our
country has to be based on affordability, sustainability and it is
going to be very transparent so that everyone can be aware of what
is being done. Thank you very much.
Mr W F FABER: Chair, thank you Deputy President for the answer.
Given that the integrated resources plan is crucial for the nuclear
deal procurement process in that it provides parameters for energy
allocation between different types of energy sources, why has the
integrated resources plan, IRP, being delayed for so long? Will the
Deputy President undertake to ensure that it is provided to the
respective select committee by the end of October this year?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Chair, clearly the IRP is in the process
of being finalised and crafted. Standing here I will not be able to
determine the date on which it will be available. I am absolutely
certain that as soon as that process is concluded it will be made
available to all and sundry, and indeed the portfolio committee will
be able to deliberate on it as well. So, right now I am not able to
say whether it will be available by October or whatever other date.
I’m sorry for being disappointing in as far as not giving the exact
date. It is out of my hands. Thank you very much.
Ms N P KONI: Chairperson, did the National Treasury give advice to
the Department of Energy, the President, yourself and all structures
involved in making the decision to proceed with the nuclear build
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programme that South Africa does not have money? If yes, why is
South Africa proceeding to build nuclear? If no, can the country
afford such financial commitment? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Chair, the Treasury as an integral part of
government is involved in this whole process. In fact, they play a
critical role on the nuclear build programme. When I answered the
question initially I said the financial modelling is in the process
of being put together. This is where the Treasury plays a key and
critical role. So, the Treasury plays that type of role of modelling
these types of programmes financially. In the end they will be able
to determine and tell us the extent to which this type of programme
build-up is affordable. So, through their various expertises they
are going to be able to do that for us. That work is still underway.
It is currently being done very, very carefully.
I know hon member that you would like to know the date on which it
is going to be done. I know it is something that you always focus
your attention on when is it going to happen. I have to disappoint
you again and say that I am not able to tell you the exact date.
[Interjections.]
On this issue, work is happening. Thank you very much, hon Chair.
[Applause.]
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Dr Y C VAWDA: Hon Chair, I greet all of you - assalamu alaikum
[peace be upon you.]. The question I would like to ask the hon
Deputy President is that if and when considering a new nuclear deal
for this country - and it seems that we are - we must ensure that we
will be utilising the most recent technology that is going to be
available to us. Can the Deputy President give us the assurance that
this is going to be done? Is the Deputy President also aware - I am
not making this a double question, it’s actually one - that the most
recent technology that is available is associated with desalination
of sea water in a very big way and that this could be utilised as a
secondary massive project to create jobs in the country? Is the
Deputy President aware of this? Is the government and those that are
busy with the model aware of this? Is anything going to be done in
this direction? Thank you, Chair.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Deputy
Chairperson! Deputy Speaker! I’m sorry. [Laughter.] I made you a
Deputy Chairperson and a Deputy Speaker.
Deputy President!
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you, hon Chair. I would like any of
those jobs at anytime. [Laughter.] It could be much better.
I would like to thank the hon member for raising all these issues.
Indeed, if we do proceed we should do everything we can to use the
most modern technology - technology that doesn’t just go beyond what
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is generally known and available, but also begins to be so
innovative as to be able to do the types of things that the hon
member is suggesting. We must begin to get into desalination of sea
water in a massive way. Also, if we do go ahead it should pay
maximum benefit to the country economically, energy-wise and in
every other conceivable way. So, we will take that to heart. I can
say that clearly because we are doing this in phases and stages.
When we do get to that phase we will make sure that what the hon
member is suggesting indeed become something that we take up. Thank
you very much.
Assessment of bilateral agreements
12.
Mr S G Mthimunye (Mpumalanga: ANC) asked the Deputy President:
(1)
Whether the Government has done any assessments of any
outcomes
of
the
number
of
bilateral
agreements
with
numerous Bi-National Commissions dealing with various areas
of development that have been signed and ratified over the
years; if not, why not; if so, what progress has been made
on
issues
of
(a)
social,
(b)
trade
and
(c)
economic
cooperation;
(2)
whether the Government is considering an assessment of the
benefits of these interventions to our nation; if not, why
not; if so, what are the relevant details?
CO314E
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Chairperson, binational commissions and
other structured bilateral mechanisms are critical to directing and
managing bilateral, political and economic relations between our
country and its various international partners. In most binational
commissions, strategic guidance is provided by political principals
on matters of mutual interest while senior officials co-ordinate the
technical implementation of whatever agreed activities arrived at.
Bilateral instruments often provides for separate working groups
that, amongst others, routinely do things such as assessing the
implementation of current areas of bilateral co-operation, identify
future areas of bilateral co-operation, identify responsible
entities to monitor progress and to secure implementation. They also
identify areas where there are challenges, problems and obstacles in
implementing these bilateral agreements and programmes and finding
ways of proposing solutions to whatever difficulties may have been
encountered.
As part of this participation in binational commissions, our
government conducts its own assessment. It does this on a case by
case basis of the state of bilateral relations and the progress in
the implementation of agreements as well as implementing these
programmes.
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A recent assessment that was conducted by the Department of
International Relations and Co-operation in August concluded that
the various binational commissions with other African countries
contributed to the advancement of a number of national priorities.
Members may know that we have established a number of binational
commissions with a number of countries on our continent. These
includes resolving the energy challenge, encouraging investment in
mineral beneficiation, the development of the ocean economy and the
effective implementation of our Industrial Policy Action Plan, IPAP,
and also ensuring that our national infrastructure development
programme moves forward.
Our experience is that, binational commissions provide an important
platform for structured expansion of political trade, investment and
developmental relations with key partner countries. They have
assisted, for example, in expanding the value of South Africa’s
trade with the rest of our continent. This trade activity between us
and a number of countries on our continent has moved from
R11 billion in 1994 to a whooping and staggering R420 billion as of
December 2015. This has happened as a result of the relationships
that we have crafted through binational commissions with a number of
countries because through these commissions, we are able to engage
various countries at close range and in fact build partnerships that
go beyond the ordinary, but partnerships that are meaningful and
mutually beneficial to both ourselves and to those countries as
well.
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Similarly, our trade with China, another significant partner with
whom we have a binational commission has soared over the past few
years. China is now South Africa’s number one trading partner with a
total trade reaching R294 billion at the end of 2015.
We have also used binational commissions to effectively promote
issues such as skills development, capacity building and sharing of
expertise on a number of things. I was once in Sweden with the
Minister of Water and Sanitation, it was a joy to see how our groups
were huddled over negotiating table – just talking about water. This
was possible through the binational commission. An example of this
can be found in a number of other areas and also in the development
of skills.
Together with Sweden, we have been able to get scholarships for
postgraduate studying in a wide range of fields including
entrepreneurship, economics, law, international health,
biopharmaceutics engineering and more importantly marine training.
Through these binational commissions and other bilateral mechanisms,
South Africa’s international relations policy continues to
contribute significantly to the expansion of trade and investment,
the development of skills of our people as well as the capabilities
of many young people in our country. So, these binational
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commissions are real engines of growth, engines of extending our
relationship with the rest of the world. Thank you very much.
Mr S G MTHIMUNYE: Hon Deputy President, you made reference in your
response to periods in which the reporting is done with regards to
the assessment of the binational commissions. If you could share
with us, which are these periods or intervals at which the
assessment is done? Can such be shared with the oversight mechanism
of Parliament so as to enhance oversight?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Chairperson, we have just done a major
assessment to look at all the binational commissions. Beyond these
major assessment, we are going to look at them more periodically,
possibly, annually because most of them meets at the very least once
a year.
We reciprocate, sometimes we meet in South Africa and other times we
meet in the country that we have a binational commission with, for
example, the Chinese Vice President will be coming to South Africa
and together we will be involved in a binational commission. The
last time we went to China and Sweden, we did the same thing. So,
they will be coming here again. So, it is reciprocated once a year.
I would say the review process could be possibly annual.
In as far as reporting back for oversight purposes, I am sure that
we can be able to ensure that the reporting also gets to the
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portfolio committee. I am quite happy and open to discussing this
matter with my colleagues in the executive, especially the Minister
of International Relations and Co-operation, to see the extent to
which information can be shared at the very least so that members of
Parliament, indeed the National Council of Provinces as well, are
able to have a line of sight of how these relationships are working
and the benefit that the people of South Africa are irking out of
these relationships. Thank you very much.
Mr E MAKUE: Hon Chairperson, through you to the Deputy President,
you have explained to us the binational and also the bilateral
agreements. Now, I want to raise a question because what we find
within the context of globalisation is that all the more we have
blocks of nations coming together in the establishment of relations.
We have recently had the experience with the economic partnership
agreement with the European Union but also participating in the
World Trade Organisation - we get the sense that within the African
continent, the four regions are beginning to consider working
together as a region.
Deputy President, can you please inform us more. What are the
advantages for South Africa when we look at multilateral agreements
rather than the bilateral agreements? Secondly, indicate to us what
the role of South Africa is - not only in terms of bilaterals with
overseas countries. Maybe you could take two of the successful
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bilaterals that we have been engaged in on the African continent.
Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: The world that we are living in has become a
world where any country should seek to forge partnerships and
effective partnerships that will advance its own interests. These
partnerships can be crafted at a multilateral level and we are
fortunate that since the end of apartheid we have been welcomed with
open arms by various organisations, institutions and formations
globally and we play a very key and important role. So, at a
multilateral level, South Africa derives a lot of benefits in being
part of the global community - working together with others in cooperations and always seeking to advance the African Agenda as well
as our own agenda as a nation. Those are our two key primary
objectives. We want to see Africa well positioned because we are
Africa – we are part of Africa and we also want to advance our own
national interests. This we do, as I said, multilaterally as well as
bilaterally.
At a multilateral level we have drawn a lot of benefits. Look at the
position that we now have in Brazil, Russia, India, China and South
Africa, Brics. We are the smallest of the three Brics countries but
we are centrally positioned and soon we are going to have a Brics
Bank here, even as the smallest member of the Brics family. In a
number of other multilateral organisations, we gain a lot of
benefits. Our President has just been to the G20 and we participate
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there. We also gain a lot of stature. As a small country of just
56 million people, we are hitting way above our weight and that is
good for us as South Africans. Quite often, as South Africans, we
never realise how important we are regarded by the rest of the
world. The world respects us. The world embraces us and the world
wants to do business with us. They want to deal with us in a
plethora of ways and that we should be grateful for.
At a bilaterally level, we draw a lot of benefits as well. As I was
saying, our relations with a country like China - look at how it has
benefited us – a country which we traded with in small bits and
pieces, we now derive almost R250 billion of trade with. We used to
do very little business with the rest of the African continent but
now we do a lot of business with various countries.
I cannot necessarily single out one country in Africa and say this
is the very best. All of them are great partners of our country. You
can count them all - from the east right through to the west and
from the south right through to the north. We have great bilateral
relations with each of those countries. Our objective is to extend
those relations. It is for this reason that we have a presence in a
number of African countries because we hold the rest of the
continent close to our hearts. We are Africa; we are part of Africa.
Through bilaterals and multilaterals we are able to extend our
presence and we are also able to extend our own influence - little
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as it might be but we derive enormous and huge benefits out of being
part of the international community and being part of all these
relationships. We see them as partnerships. All these countries are
our valued partners whom we respect and they also have a great deal
of respect for us. Thank you very much.
Mr L P M NZIMANDE: Hon Chairperson, through you to the hon Deputy
President, I would also like to hear the role of these relations not
just in relation to trade and economic activities, but also on
issues of collaboration with efforts of fighting interstate
corruption; issues of potential influence to clean and good
governance and improvement of democracies within and amongst the
state. Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Chair, our relationships with various
countries span across a number of areas and disciplines. We enjoy a
lot of participation and acceptance in various structures on the
African continent as well. A number of our South African colleagues,
through various institutions, participate in African institutions
that are aimed at advancing human rights, democracy, dealing with
corruptions, ensuring that there is good governance and a whole
number of areas. It could also be in education, culture, science and
technology and many other areas, including the judiciary. Our judges
are linked to a number of African bodies and organisations where
they meet with others and all these are building blocks of how our
international partnerships are crafted. That is the full
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architecture of our international relations and they are all aimed
at putting out there into the open who we are. Our ethos as a
nation; our values as a nation are propagated through various
institutions that we have in our country that have dealings with
other nations beyond our borders, cutting across all these areas I
am talking about.
We are well positioned in as far as our relations are concerned. It
is not only on trade and investment. It is not only on politics. It
is right across the board and that is what stands us in good stead
because everyone who participates in various institutions carries
the South African flag. They go out there and exude the South
African ethos, the South African values and what our country is all
about. So, various people, whoever they are - it could even be our
Independent Electoral Commission, IEC, participates with other IECs
in the continent. The judiciary, as I said, and a number of other
bodies - as they do so, they are carrying our flag. They are
carrying who we are as a people and as a nation. A proud nation of
South Africans that we are. Thank you very much.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES: Thank you very
much, Deputy President, that was the last supplementary for the day
and the last question. I wish to then take this opportunity to thank
you once again, Deputy President, for coming through to the National
Council of Provinces.
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
PAGE: 70 of 73
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you Hon Chair and thank you hon members.
[Applause.]
See also QUESTIONS AND REPLIES.
The Council adjourned at 17:14.
__________
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
1.
The Minister of Communications
(a)
Report and Financial Statements of Vote 46 – Government Communication and
Information System (GCIS) for 2015-16, including the Report of the Auditor-General on
the Financial Statements and Performance Information for 2015-16 [RP 267-2016].
(b)
Report and Financial Statements of the Brand South Africa for 2015-16, including the
Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements and Performance Information
for 2015-16 [RP 137-2016].
2.
The Minister of Justice and Correctional Services
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
(a)
PAGE: 71 of 73
Report and Financial Statements of the National Director of Public Prosecutions for 201516 [RP 134-2016].
(b)
Proclamation No R. 46, published in Government Gazette No 40176, dated 29 July 2016:
Commencement of certain sections of the Judicial Matters Amendment Act, 2015, made in
terms of section 23 of the Judicial Matters Amendment Act, 2015 (Act No 24 of 2015).
(c)
Proclamation No R. 7, published in Government Gazette No 37346, dated 14 February
2014: Amendment of Proclamation No R. 7 of 2014 as amended by Proclamation No R.
599 of July 2015, in terms of the Special Investigating Units and Special Tribunals Act,
1996 (Act No 74 of 1996).
(d)
Draft amendments to regulations pertaining to the Child Justice Act, 2008 (Act No 75 of
2008), made in terms of section 97 and submitted for approval by Parliament in terms of
section 97(2) read with section 98(3) of the Act.
3.
The Minister of Labour
(a)
Report and Financial Statements of Productivity South Africa for 2015-16, including the
Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements and Performance
Information for 2015-16 [RP 259-2016].
4.
The Minister of Public Service and Administration
7 SEPTEMBER 2016
(a)
PAGE: 72 of 73
Notice No R.877, Government Gazette No 40167, 29 July 2016: Public Service
Regulations with effect from 1 August 2016, made in accordance with section 41 of the
Public Service Act, 1994 (Proclamation No 103 of 1994).
(b)
Notice No R.878, Government Gazette No 40167, 29 July 2016: Public Service
Regulations with effect from 1 August 2016, made in accordance with section 41 of the
Public Service Act, 1994 (Proclamation No 103 of 1994).
COMMITTEE REPORTS
National Council of Provinces
1. Report of the Select Committee on Education and Recreation on the Higher Education
Amendment Bill [B36B – 2015] (National Assembly – sec 75), dated 7 September 2016:
The Select Committee on Education and Recreation, having considered the subject of the Higher
Education Amendment Bill [B36B – 2015], referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging
Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports that it has agreed to the bill with the Democratic Alliance
opposing and the Inkatha Freedom Party abstaining.
Report to be considered.
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