Hansard: NCOP: Unrevised Hansard
House: National Council of Provinces
Date of Meeting: 23 May 2017
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
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TUESDAY, 23 MAY 2017
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PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
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The Council met at 14:01.
The House Chairperson: Committees, Oversight, Co-operative
Government and Intergovernmental Relations took the Chair and
requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or
meditation.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr D L XIMBI: Thank you Chair. I hereby give notice that on the next
sitting day of the Council I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the Council —
(1) debates the illumining publicity around the birthday parties
of Western Cape Human Settlements MEC Bonginkosi Madikizela
and his partner, Health MEC Nomafrench Mbombo, who reportedly
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celebrated their birthdays in expensive hotels attended by and
paid for by service providers, contractors or tenders of the
provincial government;
(2) notes that these parties were co-ordinated by the MECs or
their private offices that sought or solicited sponsorships to
pay for the unlimited menu choices, open bar and even a cake
to the value of R3 000 for Madikizela; and
(3) also notes that we implore this Council to institute an
investigation to get to the bottom of this apparent abuse of
government resources, ... [Inaudible.] ... actions and corrupt
exploitation of appointed consultants to entertain these DA
MECs, their friends and party benefactors.
Ms E PRINS: I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the
Council I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the Council —
(1) debates Premier Helen Zille‘s support for colonialism, and the
levies and extravagant trip to Singapore that cost the
taxpayer more than R1,1 million in just over a week;
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(2) notes that the Western Cape provincial government also paid
over an amount of R500 000 to Wesgro which is an entity that
has its own budget, with the question being how the money was
spent and how the province accounts for the money; and
(3) also notes that the premier went on a visit to Singapore in
search for economic opportunities but the MEC of Economic
Development was conspicuous by his absence from this important
visit.
Mr C J DE BEER: I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of
the Council I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the Council —
(1) debates the increase in card fraud that continues to rob South
Africans of their hard-earned income, resulting in over
R600 million a year;
(2) notes that, according to the latest card fraud statistics
released by the SA Banking Risk Information Centre, credit
card fraud has increased by 13% from R331,4 million in 2015 to
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R375,4 million in 2016, while debit card fraud has increased
by 3,1% from R333,2 million to R343,5 million; and
(3) also notes that 52% of debit card fraud in South Africa occurs
at automated teller machines, ATMs, in contrast to three per
cent for credit cards, and that credit card not present, CNP,
fraud on credit cards has increased by 18,9% from the previous
year and accounts for 66,8% of the losses.
Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: I hereby give notice that on the next sitting
day of the Council I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the Council —
(1) expresses its huge dismay and sadness at the rape and
strangulation until death of 10-year-old Princess Ngobeni at
the Free and Fair settlement in Cullinan, Tshwane;
(2) debates solutions to prevent the conditions that have led to
the senseless rapes and killings of women and children in this
country; and
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(3) mourns with the Ngobeni family at the terrible loss they are
experiencing.
May they experience God‘s touch and his healing.
Mr G MICHALAKIS: I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day
of the Council I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the Council debates the need for hon members such as hob
Ximbi to have training on the difference between a notice of
motion and a motion without notice.
CONDEMNATION OF MINISTER BROWN FOR REINSTATING BRIAN MOLEFE
(Draft Resolution)
Mr W F FABER: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move without notice on
behalf of the DA:
That the Council –
(1) notes that last week the Eskom board announced that Mr Brian
Molefe would be reinstated in his position as CEO following a
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dispute of the R30 million pension payout or separation
package;
(2) strongly condemns Minister Brown‘s decision to agree to this
redeployment as it is obvious that Mr Molefe was part and
parcel of the report of state capture by the former Public
Protector on his relationship with the Gupta family. I so
move.
In light of the objection the motion may not be proceeded with and
the motion without notice will become a notice of a motion.
COMPLAINS AGAINST PREMIER MABUZA’S BLUE LIGHT CONVOY
(Draft Resolution)
Mr F ESSACK: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:
That the Council –
(1) notes that a pedestrian was killed by Premier Mabuza of
Mpumalanga‘s blue light convoy;
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(2) also notes that Premier Mabuza‘s blue light brigade continues
to be a menace on the province‘s roads in Mpumalanga;
(3) further that the DA has continuously called for the banning of
blue lights brigades in the province, as you can see in the
Western Cape government;
(4) conveys their deepest condolences to the family of the
deceased, and;
(5) calls upon the Independent Police Investigative Directorate to
consider investigating Premier Mabuza of Mpumalanga and his
blue light brigade. I so move.
In light of the objection the motion may not be proceeded with and
the motion without notice will become a notice of a motion.
DEPUTY MINISTER THABANG MAKWETLA HIJACKED
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M T MHLANGA: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move without notice on
behalf of the ANC:
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That the Council –
(1) notes with concern that Deputy Minister of Justice and
Correctional Services, Thabang Makwetla, was hijacked at gun
point on Sunday night; ... [Interjections.]
Mr M KHAWULA: Chairperson, I wanted to find out if we now have a new
party called NNNC in the House?
The House Chairperson: No, hon Khawula, you are out of order.
Continue hon Mhlanga.
Mr M T MHLANGA: [Laughter] ...
(2) also notes that the hijackers forced him into the back sit of
his car and the hospital security guards in the boot of the
car, they ran to the nearby ATM to withdraw his money after
having taken his wallet and cellphone;
(3) further notes that this criminal incident occurred whilst the
Deputy Minister was visiting the poet and ANC stalwart Mongane
Wally Serote at a hospital;
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(4) notes that they were later found unharmed and dumped in Brits,
North West;
(5) thanks the Almighty that they were unharmed, and;
(6) calls upon law enforcement agencies to do their best to
apprehend the culprits. I so move.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
MALARIA OUTBREAK IN LIMPOPO
(Draft Resolution)
Ms B T MATHEVULA: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:
That the Council -
(1)
notes the outbreak of Malaria in Limpopo;
(2) further notes that more people have died due to malaria;
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(3) recognises that more patients are not receiving treatment
because of lack of beds, and;
(4) sends special condolences to the Mabunda family from Giyani
Thomo Village who lost a three-year-old child due to malaria.
I so move.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
MR SIZWE MAGUNI GRADUATES WITH 25 UNIVERSITY DISTINCTIONS
(Draft Resolution)
Ms G M MANOPOLE: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move without NOTICE:
That the Council –
(1) notes with elation the astonishing achievement of Mr Sizwe
Maguni who is a 23-year old student from the University of
Zululand who graduated with a Bachelor of Education degree
with an astonishing 25 university distinctions;
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(2) further notes that Mr Maguni is currently teaching at Mpheti
Mahlatsi Secondary School in Johannesburg was orphaned at the
age of 18 months and raised by his granny and aunt with their
social grants;
(3) takes this opportunity to congratulate Mr Maguni for his
exceptional achievement;
(4) extends well wishes and profound appreciation to his
grandmother and aunt for the sacrifices that they made to
ensure that their son gets education.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
UPSURGE OF KILLINGS OF YOUNG GIRLS AND WOMEN
(Draft Resolution)
Ms L C DLAMINI: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:
That the Council –
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(1)
notes the upsurge of incidents on the killing of young girls
and women by either their partners or boyfriends over the
recent weeks;
(2)
further notes that the killing happens to unsuspecting and
innocent young girls and women and these incidents happen
behind closed doors or awkward places;
(3)
calls upon citizens to be aware and take necessary
precautions to safeguard and protect women and girls;
(4)
call upon the SA Police Services and the Department of
Justice to bring to book all suspects in these heinous crimes
and embark on community awareness programmes to make citizens
understand the rule of law.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
STUART BAXTER NAMED AS BAFANA BAFANA COACH
(Draft Resolution)
Ms T K MAMPURU: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:
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That the Council –
(1) notes and welcomes that the South African Football Association
has officially announced Stuart Baxter as the new Bafana
Bafana head coach at the SAFA House today, after confirming
his appointment at the helm on 04 May 2017;
(2) also notes that this appointment comes long after Shakes
Mashaba‘s dismissal from the national team;
(3) further notes that the South African football fraternity can
finally look ahead as the saga of finding the next best man
for the job has finally been put to bed and the main focus can
now be fully shifted on the country‘s upcoming AFCON, Chan and
2018 FIFA World Cup qualifiers;
(4) further notes that Stuart Baxter as a tried and tested coach
is immediately charged with the first task being to prepare
for the Bafana Bafana‘s upcoming Africa Cup of Nation‘s
opening qualifier against Nigeria on the weekend of June 9 to
11;
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(5) wishes to congratulate Mr Stuart Baxter on his new duties and
also to bid him and his team all of the best in their campaign
for the upcoming international tournaments.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the
Constitution.
THIRD YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF THE NCOP
(Draft Resolution)
Mr A S SINGH: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:
That the Council –
(1) notes that yesterday, 22 May marked the third year since the
formal constitution of the third Sitting Chamber of the
National Council of Provinces in the fifth democratic
Parliament in 2014;
(2) further notes that on 22 May 2014, delegates from various
provinces were sworn in as members of the NCOP and the elected
hon Ms Thandi Modise, as the Chairperson of this Council and
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hon Tau as the Deputy Chairperson of this Council and hon
Mateme, as the Chief Whip of this Council;
(3) takes this opportunity to congratulate our Council for
reaching this milestone, as we continue with our
constitutional duty to be represent the interests of provinces
and ensure that our Council remains the epicentre of the
representation of provincial interests.
In light of the objection the motion may not be proceeded with and
the motion without notice will become a notice of a motion.
GLOBAL WANNACRY CYBER ATTACKS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr G MICHALAKIS: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes the recent global WannaCry cyber attacks which has also
affected South Africa;
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(2) also notes that these attacks are a symptom of a larger global
threat;
(3) further notes that according to various sources, South Africa
is the country which is the third most at risk and in November
2016 was among the top 40 targeted countries with regards to
cyber attacks;
(4) in light of this continuing threat to our national security,
this House requests a briefing by all relevant state
departments to both the Joint Standing Committee on
Intelligence and the Select Committee on Security and Justice
as to the readiness of South Africa to deal with these
threats.
In light of the objection the motion may not be proceeded with and
the motion without notice will become a notice of a motion.
NQUTHU MUNICIPAL BY-ELECTIONS ON 24 MAY 2017
(Draft Resolution)
Mr J M MTHETHWA: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:
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That the Council -
(1) notes that tomorrow, 24 May 2017, the people of Nquthu will
hold a crucial by-election to elect public representatives who
will champion the delivery of basic services in Nquthu;
(2) further notes that all parties had very robust and successful
campaigns in the run up to this by-election;
(3) takes this opportunity to wish all political parties a free
and fair election for tomorrow and appeals to all political
parties to continue with the tolerance they have shown since
the beginning of the campaigning process; and
(4) calls on the people of Nquthu to come out in their numbers to
elect their public representatives who will not only represent
their interests but also champion development in Nquthu.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
NCOP TAKING PARLIAMENT TO THE PEOPLE IN THE FREE STATE
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(Draft Resolution)
Ms Z V NCITHA: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:
That the Council –
(1) notes with pride the success of the pre-visits of the NCOP
Taking Parliament to the People in the Xhariep District of the
Free State;
(2) further notes that despite the multi-party composition of the
Council, issues of service delivery and the accompanying
bottlenecks were confronted with open minds without any fear
or favour;
(3) believes that the capacity to trigger prompt action by the
Executive is one of the critical defining features of an
activist people‘s Parliament;
(4) resolves to process the preliminary reports of this visits and
bring to the urgent attention of the Free State Provincial
Government critical matters that require attention to improve
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service delivery, and;
(5) resolves that a bilateral meeting with respective Select and
Portfolio Committees be arranged to agree on a minimum
programme of intervention to address the short and medium term
issues as the count down towards the actual Taking Parliament
to the People programme begins.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the
Constitution.
POLICE RESCUE FIVE ABDUCTED GIRLS IN SPRINGS
(Draft Resolution)
Ms T WANA: Hon Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:
That the Council –
(1) notes with profound concern that five abducted girls were
found by the police in a flat at Springs CBD last weekend;
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(2) further notes that these teenagers were abducted by a Nigerian
national for human trafficking;
(3) also notes that two of the girls are 14 years old‚ one is 15‚
another is 17 while the oldest was 19 years old and four of
them are from Balfour in Mpumalanga while the 19-year-old is
from KwaThema in Springs;
(4) notes that the culprit was out on bail for rape and kidnapping
a 19-year-old girl from KwaThema and was found in possession
of pornographic material and drugs; and
(5) calls on the public to further report suspicious activities
and applauds the prompt reaction by our police to this effect.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
DRAFT AMENDMENT TO THE SUPPLY CHAIN MANAGEMENT REGULATIONS IN TERMS
OF SECTION 169(2) OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT: MUNICIPAL FINANCE
MANAGEMENT ACT, 2003 (No 56 Of 2003)
(Consideration of Report of Select Committee on Finance)
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Mr C J DE BEER: Hion Chairperson, hon members, Regulation 44 of the
Municipal Financial Management Act Supply Chain Management
Regulations of 2005 read that the supply chain policy of a
municipality must state that no tender may be awarded to a person
who is in the service of the state.
Regulation l defines ―in the service of the state‖ to include: A
member of the accounting authority of any national or provincial
public entity
What are the reasons for the amendment? The inclusion of a nonexecutive director of a national or provincial entity in the
definition was challenged in the case of Scheider Electric (PTY) Ltd
versus the Minister of Finance and others.
Regulation 44 prohibited the director of the company who was at the
time a non-executive director of a national public entity to tender
for work of a municipality.
Senior council advised that there is no rational reason for
regarding a non-executive director to be in the service of the state
and therefore being barred from participating in municipal tenders.
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The following process was followed. National Treasury initiated a
process to amend the definition ―in service of the state‖ to exclude
non-executive directors or national and provincial public entities.
SALGA was consulted. The draft amendment to the regulations was
published for comment. The Minister of Cooperative Governance and
Traditional Affairs, COGTA, concurred with the amendment to the
definition as required (section 168(1) of the MFMA). The Minister of
Finance approved the amendment and it was gazetted on 20 January
2017
The Select Committee on Finance received the briefing from the
National Treasury on 15 February 2017. The committee tabled and
considered the report on the amendment to the Supply Chain
Management Regulations on 15 February 2017.
Hon Chairperson, I table this report and amendment for consideration
by the House. Thank you.
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the
Constitution.
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OVERSIGHT VISIT TO MUNICIPAL INFRASTRUCTURE GRANT PROJECTS IN
SALDANHA BAY LOCAL MUNICIPALITY, WESTERN CAPE
(Consideration of Report of Select Committee on Appropriations)
Mr S J MOHAI: House Chair, the Municipal Infrastructure Grant, MIG,
is a conditional grant transferred to municipalities and
administered by the Department of Co-operative Governance and
Traditional Affairs. Its purpose is to provide specific capital
finance for eradicating basic municipal infrastructure backlogs for
poor households, microenterprises and social institutions serving
poor communities.
The grant fund basic services such as water and sanitation
infrastructure, access roads and solid waste disposal. The grant is
also used for the refurbishment of projects subject to proof of
proper maintenance of assets and other various reasons. The grant is
used in the informal settlements.
The objective of the oversight was to assess the appropriateness of
the infrastructure build and to assess whether the projects have met
the objectives of increased access and delivery of basic services to
poor households and elicit whether MIG fund was complemented by any
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other grant funding such as Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP,
Integrated Fund for municipalities and if so, the number of people
from communities who benefited from working on the infrastructure
project. And also to assess whether municipalities have maintenance
plans in place for the infrastructure delivery to ensure that its
lifespan is extended to its optimum.
Although the Western Cape municipalities‘ average MIG expenditure
compares favourably with the national average for the period under
review, the committee, however, noted some unevenness with certain
municipalities that while a total of 13 municipalities have spent
about 40% of benchmark set by the department, about 11
municipalities have spent below this benchmark and would be assisted
by the relevant department - in this case the local government
department.
Reasons for under expenditure were stated and disappear elaborately
in our committee report. I will not dwell on those reasons but it is
safe to highlight just one; that supply chain management delays and
issues of municipalities having to reprioritise their detail project
implementation plan due to high water losses. The municipality needs
to improve on the following areas as identified by the committee:
That making basic services accessible to the poor communities as
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well as unlocking the economic growth opportunities in this
localities; to also ensure that all community infrastructure
projects are compliant with public participation principles through
their Integrated Development Plan, IDP, priority processes; that
community infrastructure is located in the manner that it makes easy
access to all community members. Here, we are making a point that
the location of infrastructure is important, it is not a social
neutral activity - infrastructure that is located in our communities
should be solving community problems.
The committee also noted the issue of occupational health and safety
measures at the Vredenburg wastewater treatment as well as possible
long-term effects on the health of employees permanently stationed
at wastewater treatment work plants. This was a matter highlighted
to relevant authorities that requires urgent attention.
In conclusion, Chair, we table the report in the House for
consideration. I thank you.
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
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IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal,
Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the
Constitution.
Agreed to.
APPROPRIATION BILL
(Policy Debate)
Vote No 15 – Higher Education and Training
The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Hon Chairperson of
the House ...
IsiZulu:
...
Siyabonga ukuthi nelamadoda igama liyabongwa. [Uhleko.]
Akulona elomama kuphela.
English:
Hon Chair of the House, Cabinet colleagues, Deputy Ministers, our
Deputy Minister of Higher Education and Training, Mr Mduduzi Manana,
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Chairperson of the Select Committee on Education and Training, hon
Zwane and the Members of Select Committee, hon Members of the NCOP,
Director-General and staff of the department, heads of our Post
School Organisations and Institutions, honoured guest, my special
guests from Bulumko and Cape Town High Schools as well as Oude Molen
Technical High School who have joined us today. Do you mind standing
up and wave? [Applause.] You are most welcome. This is part of our
bringing a girl child to the workplace. [Applause.]
This year we celebrate the year of O R Tambo, the longest serving
President of the ANC, and someone who had a deep passion for
education, and who understood that education is a key driver for
development. Oliver Tambo was a mathematics and science teacher who
firmly believed that a liberated South Africa would require a well
educated populace to govern the new democratic state.
We also deliver this Budget Vote against the background of very
rapid technological changes, including what is referred to as the
Fourth Industrial Revolution, which took centre stage in the
recently concluded World Economic Forum on Africa eThekwini. The key
challenge for us, and the rest of our continent, is what type of
colleges and universities, and curricula, do we need in order to
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respond to both our developmental needs as well as adjust to these
rapid technological changes.
We have achieved a lot hon Chair and hon members since our
department was established in 2009 – building on the earlier
achievements of the ANC government since 1994. We have seen the
establishment of three new universities. We have strengthened and
incorporated the Technical and Vocational Education and Training,
TVET, colleges into the Post School and Education Training system,
including migrating their staff into the our department.
We have also approved massive infrastructure developments across the
system as well as improved access, participation and throughput
rates. We have also developed a TVET Turnaround Strategy. These
achievements not withstanding, one of the biggest challenges I need
to put before this House is the need to provide financial resources
in order to build a vibrant, dynamic TVET college sector capable of
absorbing millions of our unemployed youth and provide much needed
skills for our economy.
In fact, failure to adequately resource our TVET colleges may as
well be the single biggest undoing in growing and developing an
inclusive economy in our country. TVET Colleges are important
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vehicles for provincial and local economic development and the
National Plan for Post-school Education and Training, which will be
completed by the end of this financial year, will further affirm
that.
The NCOP, I would urge hon Chair and hon members‘ needs to pay even
closer attention to the TVET colleges. It is also important to note
that we still await the recommendations of the Presidential
Commission of Inquiry into Higher Education and Training that is
looking into the feasibility of fee free higher education and
training for the poor and working class.
Since the inception of NSFAS as the Tertiary Education Fund of South
Africa, TEFSA, in 1991, NSFAS has awarded about R72 billion in loans
and bursaries. Despite what the cynics say, more than two million
students studying at South Africa‗s public universities and TVET,
colleges have been funded by the National Student Financial Aid
Scheme, NSFAS.
A total of 194 353 University students have thus far been supported
in the 2017 academic year, and 115 940 returning students.
Similarly, 123 332 TVET college students have already received
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support this year. NSFAS is one of the most significant success
stories in the history of a democratic South Africa. [Applause.]
Hon Chair and hon members we are also acutely aware of the
administrative challenges facing NSFAS and we are working together
with the board to address these as a matter of urgency. I want to
state clearly that there is absolutely no intention to privatize or
hand over NSFAS to the banks, contrary to some malicious rumours in
this regard. I call upon all stakeholders to engage meaningfully and
in good faith with the discussion document for funding the missing
middle that has been released for public comment.
While significant additional amounts of funding have been injected
into NSFAS, there is still insufficient funding to support all
students who require financial aid; hence we are also piloting a
scheme for the missing middle, which is not yet a final product.
Nevertheless, we appreciate the R138 million contributed by the
private sector to support this pilot, bear in mind that they have
committed to support these students until they finish, irrespective
of whether government accepts this model or not.
I want to reiterate that government remains committed to finding the
resources to support students from poor, working class and missing
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middle families in their quest to access higher education and
training. On TVET colleges, we would have loved to ensure that TVET
enrolments are equitably distributed among provinces from the uneven
provisioning that we inherited. For example, Gauteng covers 27% of
TVET enrolments and the North West only 2%. Unfortunately due to
fiscal constraints, all enrolments in TVET colleges have been frozen
to the 2015 enrolment figure of 660 O00 of which funding covers only
57% of the costs.
The National Development Plan targets for the coming Medium Term
Expenditure Framework, MTEF, will thus not be reached unfortunately
Chairperson and hon members. The freeze in the student national
headcount enrolment is primarily attributed to amongst others the
following; insufficient funding, inadequate physical infrastructure,
a lack of relevant teaching and learning equipment and shortage of
student accommodation.
We are raising this with this House in particular because it is this
Parliament that actually passes the budget. And I am relying on this
Parliament to really stand firm - that we can have no radical
economic transformation if we don‘t fund the TVET colleges.
[Applause.] And we are not going to be able to address the many
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problems facing our provinces if we do not ensure that there is
money invested ...
IsiZulu:
... kulamakolishi okuyiwona azonika izingane zakithi amathuba
okuthi bathole amakhono ukuze baqashwe emisebenzini noma baziqalele
imisebenzi yabo.
English:
The total student headcount enrolments of 710 535 reflects Gauteng
as having the highest enrolment as I have said. As part of the
implementation the Turnaround Strategy for TVET colleges, my
department has allocated R5,5 million towards the Professional
Development of Campus Managers over a period of three years because
it is in these campuses that learning and teaching takes place
including campuses that are in rural areas. And the people we
selected majority were from largely from rural campuses and we are
beginning to see the emergence of a strong Community of Practice
across provinces.
In the speech that I will be leaving hon Chair and hon members, I
have listed how the R9,3 billion of the TVET budget is distributed.
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With Gauteng getting the highest at 23,12% and Northern Cape at
1,73. In terms of infrastructure plans for commencement of the new
campus sites and refurbishments project pending sufficient budget in
the 3rd quarter of 2017 are underway. These include; Balfour in
Mpumalanga; Giyani in Limpopo; Ngqungqushe in Lusikisiki; Aliwal
North, Sterkspruit, Graaff-Reinet in the Eastern Cape and
Umzimkhulu, Greytown, Msinga and site B of Nkandla at KZN.
On the certification backlog, I am happy to report that out of the
backlog of 236, 821 that we inherited as a department, only 84
certificates remain unissued, and this, including the NATED backlog
will be cleared by June 2017. As I have already said here hon Chair
and hon members, one certificate outstanding is an injustice because
no student must write an exam and not get his or her certificate or
results for that matter.
We will also be working in 2017 to fix the dysfunctional elements in
the national examinations function. We have also started piloting of
community colleges which is bringing together the community learning
centres in each province in order to accelerate the provision of
Adult Based Education and Training, especially to address the needs
of those South Africans who either did not go to school or never
finished schooling.
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The focus now on university education is to improve participation
rates by black students. We need to build capacity to transform the
institutional culture and curriculum, in line with the calls for
decolonisation. But what is crucial is that we are not going to have
decolonisation of higher education when 66% of our Professors are
still white and largely male. We do need to produce black academics
and black professors. It is for this reason that I will be
establishing a Ministerial Task Team headed by a former Deputy Vice
Chancellor of Unisa, Professor David Mosoma to investigate what it
is that is preventing adequate numbers of black academics to be
produced in South Africa – black South African academics, which is
what we need in big numbers. We have also committed to deal with
backlogs and historically disadvantaged universities and we have put
aside funding of approximately R2,5 billion over a five year period
in order to do this.
On student housing, we are making steady progress in our joint work
with Department of Public Works to identify underutilized government
buildings to be converted into student accommodation. We would also
request yourselves as members, if you know of a public works
building that is either unused or underutilised, please bring it to
out attention so that we can be able to work towards converting
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those buildings into students accommodations. And also what we want
to do - we are concerned - we want to do an audit because we do not
have adequate university owned accommodation - we are still using
privately owned accommodation.
We want to know who owns these private accommodations. Is there
enough participation by black South Africans, black Africans, youth,
women and co-operatives? So that we are able to ensure that this
important task is not only fulfilled by minority in our communities.
But we continue to give money for university owned accommodation,
like for instance; Sefako Makgatho University, we have allocated
R1,2 billion over the next four years for infrastructure
development.
The University of the Western Cape will also get a new student
village on its Bellville campus with more than 2,600 beds. On skills
development, NSFAS to be the largest skills levy institution, not
because this matter is unimportant but because it is important, I
will be leaving with you an annexure which details some of the
National Science Foundation, NSF, and SETA projects in the provinces
that you can get you own time to look at so that we able to see what
the skills fund is actually doing. We have additional focus on
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youth, specialised programme for young people to develop as to
benefit from the Structural Insulated Panels, SIPs.
In conclusion hon Chair, I wish to thank the President, my Cabinet
colleagues, the Select Committee here for the on going support - our
Deputy Minister, the Director-General, staff from the department and
our entities. Without you none of this work would have be possible.
Thank you Chairperson. [Applause.]
Ms L L ZWANE: Chairperson, hon Minister of Higher Education and
Training, the Deputy Minister, hon Manana, hon Members of
Parliament, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen at the
gallery and the students that are actually attending this important
sitting today, let me thank you for having given the opportunity to
participate in this very important debate of Higher Education and
Training, Budget Vote 15.
On behalf of the Select Committee on Education and Recreation, I am
proud to report that we have always enjoyed a maximum co-operation
with the Department of Higher Education and Training from the
political leadership of the department, as well as the
administrative leadership. I particularly want to thank the hon
Minister, Doctor Nzimande, for the time that you took during the
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time of protests, where you criss-cross the country in an attempt to
put out the fires that were there.
Some of us managed to attend some of the sessions and it was really
a difficult time for the department. But you braved it; you stood
on; you engaged the parents, the students and you were assisted by
the other stakeholders like the religious sector, the parent body
and all education-loving citizens of the country. With our help, you
managed to put out all the fires. I do want to congratulate you for
that. [Applause.]
To the Deputy Minister, hon Manana, I also want to thank you for
your assistance. When we had problems relating to National Student
Financial Aid Scheme, Nsfas, we were referred to your office for you
to help us to penetrate and resolve some of the challenges that the
students were faced with. The students had not received their
allocations in due time because of the problems that the Minister
alluded to, of the new inception of student-centred model. You
obliged and assisted those students. They are now in different
universities furthering their studies to get their degrees. Thank
you very much for that intervention.
Since the advent of democratic government in 1994, South
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Africa has been building a new education and training system with a
goal to meet the needs of a democratic society, and policy
developments have been aimed at ensuring a democratised education
system of overcoming unfair discrimination, expanding an access to
education and training opportunities, and improving the quality of
education, training and research.
Important policy instruments have been developed, including
legislation, the Green Papers and the White Papers. The basic
principles of democracy, equality, quality, expansion of education
and training opportunities, and the integration of education and
training as set out in these documents are generally consistent with
the principles guiding this White Paper on post-school education and
training.
With regards to the budget debated today, the Budget Vote 15 of
Higher Education and Training, as a Select Committee on Education
and Recreation, we did have an adequate opportunity to engage in a
core sitting with the portfolio committee of the National Assembly,
in order to engage the department on the strategic plan as well as
the reviewed strategic plan and also to verify alignment with the
National Development Plan, NDP, the Constitution, the White Paper on
Post-Education and Training, the state of the nation address and the
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other relevant protocols and instruments. We were then satisfied as
the select committee that, the department was on the right track
An allocation of R68 billion, R949 million and R95 000 is certainly
not an enough budget for a department with such a broad mandate and
enormous responsibility. Just to give clarity to the enormity of the
task, the Department of Higher Education and Training is responsible
for 26 public universities; 50 Technical Vocational Education and
Training, TVET, colleges, I hope the number is increasing as we are
completing the new campuses.
The community education and training colleges have been developed in
each and every province, one in each province. The one in KZN is in
Pietermaritzburg, in the campus that used to be Indumiso Teachers‘
College. It is also responsible for 21 Skills Education Training
Authorities, Setas, and the quality councils like the Quality
Council for Trades and Occupation, QCTO, the Council for Education,
the South African Qualifications Authority, Saqa, and many other
quality councils
There is an important body that in terms of the White Paper is being
established by your department, the SA Institute of Vocational and
Continuing Education and Training, Saivcet. One is looking forward
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to this body being fully established as it is going to assist in
terms of supporting the TVET colleges and developing innovative
curricular for those colleges.
In so far as the TVET colleges are concerned, Minister, you have
said a mouthful that, a funding of this sector is not adequate. The
Department of Higher Education and Training‘s highest priority is
being to strengthen and expand the public TVET colleges and turn
them into attractive institutions of choice, but I don‘t know if the
Department of Higher Education and Training has done enough to
ensure that they really become the institutions of choice. But
alongside that, there is a paradox because, whilst we want to
promote them as the institutions of choice, we have got budget
constraints.
If many students were to focus on going to acquire skills from those
colleges, then again we are going to be sitting with a huge problem
of funding for those particular students. As we speak, the TVET
colleges are actually funded at plus minors 54% as opposed to 80%
that they should be receiving for funding. Some of the students are
going to be taken care of by Nsfas whilst TVET colleges have to take
care of quite a substantial number of the students, they have to go
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out and look for funding in order to ensure that they provide
quality education for the students.
That is concerning because, it is very important that, as a nation,
we pull our forces together to ensure that we raise funds in
whatever way we can, to ensure that TVET colleges get adequate
funding. There have been problems, hon Minister, in the TVET
colleges relating to the qualifications of tutors and the TVET
lecturers, and I think that we still have to run intensive
programmes in ensuring that we assist the tutors and the lecturers
to get appropriate qualifications.
However, I was happy at our engagement when you did explain that, in
actual fact, there is one university that is now paying a focus
attention on providing qualifications for the lecturers that are
underqualified and want to upgrade their qualifications. I want to
believe that, that is going to be mandatory because, everybody that
is not adequately or appropriately qualified for the fields that
they are handling, must go for additional training.
The equipment that is used in the TVET colleges to train the
artisans is a bit worrying because you‘ll find that, when they
finish, it becomes difficult for them to be absorbed by the
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industry. This happens because maybe the equipment that they use
during training sessions was not relevant to the requirements of the
industry. Hon Minister, you have raised a critical issue of
accommodation in the TVET colleges as well as the universities. But,
I do want to say that, we need to lobby the private sector to come
to the party.
Funding cannot only be the burden of the government. The private
sector must come to the party, with the proviso that they are not
going to charge exorbitantly for the accommodation, to the extent
that the parents cannot afford it. As the donation to education,
they must build the student accommodation houses in the TVET
colleges and the universities, and charge minimal prices for
accommodation, as a way of making a contribution to the education of
our nation.
I do want to touch a bit on the universities as a sector. In
general, the universities have embraced the concept of an integrated
post-school system. Some universities have already begun to build
strong partnership with other post-school institutions,
particularly, the TVET colleges. I also want to make mention of just
a few universities like Limpopo. The University of Limpopo is
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increasing their pass percentage to 85,1%, which is a good return on
investment. When you invest money, there has to be a good return.
About the beautiful state of the art University of Mpumalanga that
we visited as a select committee, I want to tell all the students
out there that, that university and all other universities are not
there to be burnt by fire. They are a national asset that has to be
preserved for generations to come. Those that are perpetrators must
be dealt with in terms of the laws of the country. It is a beautiful
that has increased its enrolment steadily so, from only 169 in 2014
up to 1770 in 2017.
The university also aspire to introduce other faculties like
sciences and other health related sciences, and I hope that they
will get support. There are also problems of venues for the lectures
in other universities like the University of Venda, Univen, to
accommodate students. In some instances, you‘ll find that 300
students are taking a certain module, only to find that the venue
that is provided for that module can only accommodate 200 students.
So, the universities that are struggling in this regard must please
be assisted with additional lecture halls or extended lecture halls
so that the students can be properly accommodated. But I‘m again
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proud of the success rate of that particular university which is
sitting at 82,9%. The University of KwaZulu-Natal, UKZN, has
actually enrolled 46 566 students in 2016, 26 649 of those are
females and 19 917 are males. We are overtaking the male sector and
we are running as females.
Hon Minister, for the UKZN, I want to humbly plead with you that you
pay focus attention to that university. Things are not going alright
in that university and it used not to be like that. Today, you are a
Minister of Higher Education and Training, a doctor and a product of
UKZN. During the olden days, it was one of the preferred
universities.
I don‘t know what is happening now, but a dysfunctional council
cannot run a university. The problems in the faculty of education
need to be attended to. The lifestyle of some of the people that are
in leadership and the management of the university needs to be
looked into. What I‘m talking about is not about certain
individuals, but the future of the students that are attending that
university.
We don‘t want that university to lose its reputation, as it was once
a good university. I think that they need an extra port in order to
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focus their attention with the view of turning the situation around.
In conclusion, I want to remind to the students what Shakespear had
said: ―Drink deep or taste not the waters the Pierian spring: There
shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, And drinking largely sobers
us again.‖ I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr C HATTINGH: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, our
country is in a state where a loaded phrase such as state capture
and words such as, inter alia Tegeta, Trillian, Saxonwold and the
nuclear deal are dominating the media, all pointing to an insatiable
greed that is tightening its grip on the South African economy with
its dire consequences, especially for the vulnerable. Linked is the
blatantly mismanaged and fraud-ridden state-owned enterprises where
billions are being siphoned off and wasted.
On the other hand, we have an escalating crisis in Higher Education,
which today must be regarded as the biggest and growing underfunded
mandate of the government. While we welcome the 2013 announcement
and funding had been secured to build 12 technical, vocational
education and training, Tvet, colleges, one which is operational and
another two opening this year, we need a further focus on
infrastructure at existing colleges.
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A departmental report provided to the portfolio committee indicated
serious underfunding in every output facet of the Department of
Higher Education, setting the department up for failure in its
efforts to meet the goals set in the National Development Plan, NDP.
According to the report, Tvet colleges need an additional
R11,8 billion to reach established enrolment targets. Due to the
shortfall, including the National Student Financial Aid Scheme,
NSFAS, funding, it can be expected that the #feesmustfall campaign
will be escalated to Tvet colleges during this year. Tvet colleges
can simply not be sustained at the current funding levels and an
increased funding commitment is critical. At present the department
is only providing 54% of the operating budgets that Tvet colleges
are entitled to.
A staggering amount of R23,2 billion in additional funding will be
required to support Tvet students with their tuition fees,
accommodation and meals, as well as to provide travel allowances for
eligible students. The majority of students in the Tvet system will
fall below the R600 000 household income and will therefore be
eligible for revised financial assistance based on academic merit,
putting even more pressure on funding. Yet months into the academic
year reports are still being received of students struggling to
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access the NSFAS due to administrative hurdles such as the inability
of institutions, even at this stage, to provide results obtained in
previous academic years. Yet we still see reports, as in yesterdays
front-page, of students selling their book vouchers for a mere R50
or R100 to survive.
A further burden on the system is the low rate of students
graduating from universities — which is 27% — within three years
after initial enrolment. The other 73% obviously also includes those
who drop out.
University education ... shortfall of R10,082 billion. The current
crisis in university education is mostly a result of insufficient
subsidy funding to universities not keeping up with enrolments, thus
resulting in institutions increasing their fees and university fees
becoming more and more unaffordable, not only for the poor and
working class but also for middle-class families.
While funding has increased over the years both in nominal and real
terms, the increases in enrolment in the system, together with
inflation rising at the Higher Education Price Index, about 1,8%
above the consumer price index, CPI, has meant an ongoing erosion of
the available funding per student.
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The estimated Community Education and Training sector funding
shortfall for 2017 is R13,15 billion as provided by the department.
The following question would thus arise. How can Higher Education,
in responding to the demands of the NDP, of our economy, of our
youth demanding a worthwhile and quality education and of the
demands that are associated with our entry into the Fourth
Industrial Revolution, free itself from the quagmire that it is
sinking into?
Hon Minister, this is most probably your second last budget that you
will see being implemented. You have only about 715 days left. Then
change will come ... [Interjections.] ... and if you still survive
after expressing yourself about state capture and looting the
fiscus, your third and last budget will be amended in 2019 to
liberate our education from the ANC‘s stranglehold imposed on all
our people ... on our students. After that there will be a
government that is more responsive to the needs of the people, more
transparent and accountable to those it serves, and more efficient
in delivering services, specifically education in all its facets.
We believe that the following are non-negotiable prerequisites for
Higher Education and Training: Appropriate subsidies for
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institutions of higher learning; stability and change in our Tvet
colleges; a drastically improved NSFAS system while ensuring that
funds are made available for the support of the missing middle; and
restructured sector education and training authorities, Setas, to
ensure that we produce an adequate supply of skilled individuals
required by business and the wider economy as we enter the Fourth
Industrial Revolution. I thank you.
Sepedi:
Moh T K MAMPURU: Mohl Modulasetulo, Tona le Motlatšatona, ke kgopela
go le botša mantšu a a latelago: ―Pudi ge e palelwa ke go tswala e
re mokaka ke wo monnyane.‖ Tona, ge o be o eme fa o re hlaloseditše
se sengwe le se sengwe se Kgoro ya Thuto le Tlhahlo tša Godingwana e
lebanego le sona. Ge re be re bolela ka tša meago o re hlaloseditše
gore kua Limpopo, Yunibesiting ya Sefako Makgatho, o na le mašeleng
ao o tlilego go agela baithuti mo ba ka kgonago go dula gona. Ga ke
tsebe gore naa ba ba ka mo letsogong la ka la mpati, se ba se
bolelago, ba se bolela ba lebišitše kae. Fela a re se feleng pelo.
Modulasetulo, go lla ga go thuše, kudukudu ge ditaba e le tša gago.
Rena re leboga seo mmušo wa rena o re abetšego sona go Kgoro ya
Thuto le Tlhahlo tša Godingwana. Maloba le maabane, bomakgolokhukhu
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le bomakgolo le bao ba re tswetšego, magomo a thuto e be e le mphato
wa boselela
English:
The SA Communist party is not wrong to say: ―My father was a garden
boy and my mother was a kitchen girl, that‘s why I am a communist.‖
Sepedi:
A re tšweleng pele go šireletša mananeo ao a tlišitšwego ke
dinyakišišo tša mohlako wa rena ka bana ba bagaditšong go tloga ka
1652.
English:
Education is a necessity but not a luxury. Let‘s pull up our socks
and join hands for the sake of our future academics. Yes Minister,
there is gatekeeping for PhD academia, even those who are there
mostly received them internationally, for example, at Harvard
University.
When the late former leader of the ANC Women‘s League, Mme Charlotte
Maxeke was in Britain, she noted with dismay to be the first black
woman to study for a degree, but prior to her departure, she said to
her father that one day she will go to Britain and learn what the
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british teach their children and will come back home and do the
thing. This happened because her father was illiterate. The reason
was primarily fighting for land which was taken from our
forefathers.
Sepedi:
Go bana ba rena ba Afrika-Borwa molaetša ke gore ba swanetše ba
theeletše. Moetapele wa rena wa mengwageng ya maloba, Tsietsi
Mashinini, o lwetše gore le humane thuto ye kaone. Gagologolo, o
lwetše gore thuto e se ke ya hwetšwa ka leleme la SeAfrikanse.
Hlokomelang, le se fiše meago, le se fiše dibuka ka kua bokgobapuku,
le se senye ditsela , le se fiše dikoloi tša maphodisa, lebaka e le
go llela go hwetša thuto ntle le tefelo. Kgato ka kgato, mmogo re
tla fihlelela tšeo re di labalabelago. A re duleng fase re hlompheng
bomohu Comrade Chris Hani, Ntate Moses Kotane, Ntate Mandela – ka
yena nka se bolele, ke magadigadi, gomme le tla bona dipoelo tša
dillo tša lena.
IsiZulu
Libambeni lingashoni.
English:
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Today, hon House Chairperson, this 23 May, it‘s Student‘s Day in
Mexico. The day commemorates the violent beating of students by
police in a protest March in 1929 at the national university in
Mexico City where the students were protesting over political
involvement at the university. The day has been kept as a reminder
of educational freedom fought for over the years and it honours all
the students throughout Mexico. Today as we debate the Budget Vote
on Higher Education we should ask ourselves what this budget means
for our students at tertiary institutions. This is more so because
of the student‘s protests that we have witnessed recently against
exclusions.
Sepedi:
O e hlalošitše Tona, re go kwele ka ditsebe tše pedi - ke
maikarabelo a gago.
English:
We are happy.
Sepedi:
Re a go thekga; godimo ga moo re a tseba gore o tla tšwele pele.
English:
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According to the Budget presented in February, spending on post
school education is the second fastest growing item in the Budget,
after that post. This has to be commended but we know that much
still needs to be done. This is so because there are still some
challenges that need our urgent attention. These include, but not
limited to: An issue of entry to tertiary institutions where
students who have passed matric still find it difficult to access
these institutions; the financial difficulties associated with the
issue of the ‗missing middle‘ and the issue of improper
administration of National Student Financial Aid Scheme.
Honourable Chairperson, higher education is a highly emotive and
complex subject, as recurrent student protests have attested. The
emotive and complex part of this subject is in part because many of
the students experience higher education at a particularly intense
period of their lives — when they are ceasing to be children,
dependent on their parents, and are becoming independent adults.
This also means a change in home environment, living situations or
conditions for many of these students and we know that change gives
us a different perspective. So it is not too surprising that
students would sometimes react in a manner that we have seen our
students react when protesting at tertiary institutions.
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The protests have taken different forms. At the University of the
Western Cape, students joined forces with trade unions to protest
about debt and low wages. At the University of the Free State, a
rugby match erupted in violence as spectators attacked student
demonstrators. At the University of Pretoria ... thula wena [keep
quite], you must listen. [Laughter.]] ... students clashed violently
over the policy for the language of instruction, and a shortage of
student housing at the University of Cape Town led to a bus and
artworks being burned and raw sewage thrown into lecture rooms.
North-West University was ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order, hon MpamboShibukwana. Order! Hon Mpambo-Shibukwana, please don‘t drown the
speaker.
Ms T K MAMPURU: Mpambo-Shibukwana you must listen because all these
challenges were brought by the political party that you have joined.
You better keep quite and listen, hon Mpambo-Shibukwana. However,
these protests have a common thread, which is inequality and its
consequences for student funding. As we know, South Africa is now
one of the most unequal countries in the world and has a high and
growing level of unemployment, because of them.
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Sepedi:
Ba tšeere lefase, ba tšeere dihlongwa - ke gore ba tšeere tšohle
tšeo e lego tša rena.
English:
Today they stand here and complain and say that ...
Sepedi:
.. rena re le Afrika-Borwa re palelwa ke go thekga bana ba ka
mašeleng. Re thekga bjang bana ba rena ka mašeleng ka lebaka la gore
re amogilwe ke bona lefa la rena?
English:
They must listen, we are not happy about this. This is a story of
our country and a far cry from the country envisaged by Oliver
Tambo, whose birthday centenary we are celebrating this year. When
addressing the Business International Conference on 27 May 1987 in
London, the then president of the African National Congress, Oliver
Tambo, had this to say, and I quote:
Let it be said clearly: the African National Congress is committed
to bringing about fundamental change to the entire socioeconomic
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and political formation which constitutes the South Africa of
today.
These words Oliver Tambo may have said them 30 years ago, but they
are as true as they were back then. The ANC is committed to bringing
about fundamental change to the entire socioeconomic and political
formation which constitutes the South Africa of today and one way of
achieving this is through education, especially tertiary education.
This is why the ANC-led government has come up with the National
Development Plan that envisages an education system that has the
following attributes, among others: Higher Education and Further
Education Training that provides people with real opportunities to
reach their full potential; and expanding higher education sector
that is able to contribute towards rising incomes, higher
productivity and the move towards a more knowledge-intensive
economy; and a wider system of innovation that links key public
institutions with areas of the economy consistent with our economic
priorities.
This was done with the understanding that higher education is
essential for our economy. For most people, it means advanced
technical or professional skills, and in the current competitive
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world it is what gives potential employees the edge. If you have
tertiary education you are more employable than the next person who
does not. Tertiary education is also ―academic‖ in that it involves
solving new problems, for example by discovering innovations in
engineering, thinking critically about how practice can be improved,
for instance in nursing, teaching or business or understanding how a
sector fits within society, like fashion design for people with
disabilities. That‘s why you cry most of the time.
So, for a middle income country with significant economic and social
challenges like ours, higher education is far more of a public good
than a private benefit. Education is not a private benefit. However,
we have to recognise that if we want to thrive in a difficult world,
we will have to accept that higher education cannot stay the same as
when we were young — however comforting. It must change to meet the
changing needs of a world in transition. For example, today‘s world
is a digital world — the Fourth Industrial Revolution and we must
not be left behind in this digital world.
Tertiary education plays a big role in this respect. I therefore
hope some of the money allocated to this department will be
channelled to this cause, as we have elaborated, Minister. The NDP
also acknowledges the need of a more inclusive and transparent
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stakeholder engagement on the education agenda. This means we must
all be involved, and not expect the government to do everything.
Today I was telling the Department of Human Settlement that we need
to meet the department halfway. We will do the same, Minister.
This is what Oliver Tambo expected of the business people when he
addressed that Business International Conference in 1987. In my area
of Greater Sekhukhune, in Limpopo, there are many mines operating
there - which is a concern to me most of the times, but poverty
levels are shocking, let alone literacy levels. Many of these mines
do not want to fund or invest in students doing subjects that are
not related to mining. They forget that they do not exist in a
vacuum, but they are located ... [Time expired.]
Sepedi:
Modulasetulo, ke thekga tekanyetšo ye. Ke e thekga ka 100%.
Ms B T MATHEVULA: Chairperson, the EFF reject Budget Vote 15 on
Higher Education and Training. Firstly, I wish to pay tribute to the
EFF student command and its members along with students throughout
the country in the struggle of free decolonised education and the
end of outsourcing in all institutions of higher education. Mention
must also be made of over 500 students arrested and 100 of workers
fired in continued struggle with Bonginkosi Khanyile, a student who
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despite having spent five months and denied bail in jail unlike two
racist boers from Coligny, he still graduated.
As the EFF, we fully support the student command and all students
engaged in the struggle for free decolonised education for all and
it is one of our none-negotiable pillars. We don‘t simply support to
call to oppose the ANC but it is because its resources are available
and it is primarily a way through which our people could be
liberated. The inability and fear to use these resources is the
reason we are partly unable to address the racial economic
inequalities in our country and the patterns of ownership. Why do we
have a lack of skills in all sectors of the country? Why do we have
bright energetic South Africans with no future who turn to crimes
and drugs? Why we don‘t have necessary skills to deliver services to
our people while we have a Finance Minister who continue to preach
radical economic transformation? He has failed once to mention free
education or to suggest that as a Finance Minister he would ensure
that The Treasury allocate the necessary funding to make free
education a reality.
This simple fact exposes the ANC plans of stealing the EFF style
while leaving behind our substances. Any talk of radical economic
transformation without having a conversation around industrialising
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the economy. We are more self reliant and have true economic
independence. Why is only R7,4 billion of the Budget is allocated
for Tvet colleges? It is obvious, that as long we do not equip South
Africans with the necessary vocational skills and the idea of
industrialised economy to which it can support itself we will
continue to remain nothing more than ideas and slogans of stadiums.
Why was no learnership programmes properly budgeted for? How are we
meant to integrate students into the economy?
Ms L C DLAMINI: Is it parliamentary that a speaker will debate and
eat chappies at the same time?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Dlamini, you are out of
order, continue hon Mathevula.
Ms B T MATHEVULA: Germany has one of the most developed economy in
the world, has an education system which is largely free and 60% of
its young people becoming practises. In a country like ours defined
as a racial economic inequality, where we have a triple threat of
lack of skills, unemployed graduates and youth unemployment a
structure and well funded programme aimed at co-ordinating the
skills requirements of the state and industries in universities ...
[Interjections.]
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Ms T WANA: Is the speaker ready to take a question?
Xitsonga:
Man B T MATHEVULA: Ndzi ta teka vhiki le ri taka.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms. M C Dikgale): She is not ready.
English:
Ms B T MATHEVULA: When we talk about free quality decolonised
education for all we do not only talk of school fees, we are also
talking about the study environment which will allow students to
prosper and maximise their capacity. White students can ask their
parents to support them in their lifestyle while black students
largely rely on the state for not only their fees but also for food,
a place to study, necessary studying tools such as internet,
textbooks and laptops because the state cannot generally provide
these because of the lack of budget and theft of food vouchers.
Students are forced to rely on their families to provide what they
can which is often not enough. It is because of this reality that
only 8% of black students finish their degrees in an allocated time.
As EFF, we will continue to reject any budget as we do, as long as
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it does not provide free quality decolonised education for all.
Thank you, Chair.
IsiZulu:
Mnu M KHAWULA: Sihlalo, mhlonishwa Nqgongqoshe, mhlonishwa iSekela
likaNgqongqoshe, yihlazo leli Sihlalo ukuthi awungiboni ngimkhulu
kangaka.
English:
I‘m so visible.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): My apology, Hon Khawula. I
will wear my spectacles next time.
Mr M KHAWULA: I was not inviting the Chair to debate with me on the
podium.
Mr M KHAWULA: Hon Minister, I did say it later at the select
committee and I am repeating this that I am afraid that we seem to
be so much in agreement you and me these days, I don‘t know what is
happening. You know, the IFP thinking has so much incorporated
itself into your thinking. Something is happening because even the
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ideas I will tabulate here are issues that the Minister has also
touched on.
Hon Minister, the department has centralised the administration of
NSFAS, National Student Financial Aid Scheme, in trying to do away
with corruption and benefiting non deserving students from the
programme. We still have to await reports to see if this move is
paying required dividend but the slow pace by the fund and
recovering loans due to the fund is unacceptable. Also, the slow
pace by the fund to approve applications at the beginning of the
academic year sometimes leading to protest actions in some
institutions must be attended to. When the select committee visited
Mpumalanga University in March 2017, we encountered that students
had been sent home due to protest. The protest was caused by delays
of the fund in responding to the debts dating back to 2016, not even
2017.
The continued underfunding of TVET, Technical and Vocational
Education and Training, colleges in the country, remains course for
concern. One still has to establish whether these Tvet colleges
underfunding is caused by the department to the colleges or whether
it is caused by Treasury underfunding the department. Whatever the
case may be, this underfunding of Tvet colleges has resulted in Tvet
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colleges programmes being underrated either psychologically or
practically even both. The Financial and Fiscal Commission report
the following challenges in the Tvet college programme of the
department: one, few Tvet colleges have qualified teaching staff or
staff with adequate teaching and technical skills, this should come
as no surprise when considering that only one university in the
country offers accredited Tvet college lecturer qualifications; two,
further that overall outcomes at Tvet colleges are very poor; and
lastly, the FFC, Financial and Fiscal Commission, reports that there
are delays in some students receiving their certificates after
completing their courses.
The fact of the matter is that some students go for years post
completion without receiving their certificates. Worse than this is
that, some students end up not receiving their certificates at all
after completion. Hon Minister, this is bad and is a disaster to the
future of our youth and to the economy of the country. The Tvet
College Governors Council has also made a submission of their
concerns to Parliament they site the neglect of Tvet colleges by the
department as the major concern. They state that the funding made
available to colleges by the department covers 62% of all students
in all colleges. They also stated that the last time the colleges
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were provided infrastructural grant was in 2006, as a result
infrastructure in the colleges is collapsing.
Out of the total NSFAS allocation of R11,7 billion in 2016/17, the
amount of R9,3 billion was allocated to universities while only R2,4
billion was allocated to Tvet colleges. Transfers to universities in
2016/17 amounts to R29 billion whilst transfers to Tvet colleges in
the same year amounts to R1,53 billion. This is a situation which
requires close scrutiny in order to bridge the huge gap of funding.
In conclusion, Chair, whilst one acknowledges that funding to
universities is also equally low and inadequate, the situation is
however blissful when one looks at allocation to Tvet colleges. I
thank you, Chair.
IsiXhosa:
Nksk P C SAMKA: Sekela Sihlalo, ndivumele ndithi: Ngqanga neentsiba
zayo. Ngalo nyaka wokubhiyozela ikhulu leminyaka longasekhoyo uBawo
u-Oliver Regionald Tambo, nabazali bakhe ababesithi xa bemtekisa
nguSekindima, ndiyangqina ukuba indima yakhe iyabonakala, ingakumbi
kumgama osele uhanjwe ngurhulumente ekuphakamiseni izinga lemfundo.
Kungoko kuMqulu weNkululeko kukho umhlathi othi: ―Iingcango zemfundo
ziyakuvuleleka kuye wonke ubani‖.
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Umbutho we-ANC uyayixhasa le Voti yoHlahlo–lwabiwo–mali ye-15,
yeMfundo ePhakamileyo. Kolu xhaso lohlahlo-lwabiwo-mali ndiza
kunyathele kakhulu kumba wee-TVET kholeji, uProgramme 4. Imali
ebekelwe bucala kulo nyaka-mali xa uthelekisa neminyaka edlulileyo
yehlile kakhulu. Loo nto yenze ukuba isebe lingakwazi ukuziphumeza
izingcwangiso ebelizibekele yona.
Masikhumbule ukuba ezi kholeji ziluncedo kakhulu kwiindawo
ezihlelelekileyo nekungelula ukufikelela kuzo. Ezi ndawo zidinga
ukwakhelwa iihostele zokuhlala abafundi kwaye namagumbi okufundela
angqongophele, loo nto ifuna imali ethe xhaxhe. Abazali nabo
bazimisele ukufundisa abantwana babo kwezi kholeji kuba bona
bengafundanga. Siyazi sonke ukuba imfundo isisitshixo sokuvula
ingomso, kuloko sisisizwe kufuneka sizingce ngemfundo yabantwana
baseMzantsi Afrika.
Ngoko ke, kuza kufuneka sicenge iSebe LezeZimali ukuba libone ukuba
kungancediswana njani ukukhangela abatyali zimali ukuhlangabezana
nalo mceli mngeni ukuze kuphucuke izinga lezemfundo nokwakhiwa
kwezakhiwo ezikumgangatho weli xesha. Ukungabikho kweebhedi kula
ezihostele yenye yezinto esiye sayiqaphela xa besijikeleza kula
maphondo. Yonke loo nto ifuna kongezwe abahlohli kwezi kholeji
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ukwenza utshintsho kwikamva labantwana bethu kuba isizwe
esinganamgqeku okhulayo asisizwe eso.
Kwakhona uProgramme 5, yenye yeenqubo ezibalulekileyo xa ujonge iNational Development Plan kuba ukhupha ezona ngcali ezinezakhono
neziluncedo kwezi TVET kholeji zethu. Ezi zakhono zinceda abantwana
bethu ukuba bakwazi ukuzimela kwixesha elizayo. Ulutsha luyinxanelwe
imfundo kungoko kubalulekile ukuba siluncedise ukuze lungabi ngabo
oodinga esithubeni. Kufuneka lukwazi ukuvelisa amathuba engqesho
nezakhono ukuze lungaxhomekeki kurhulumente.
Xa ndigqibezela, mandimncome uGq uBlade Nzimande ebambisene
nesifundisi, iiNkosi zelizwe lakowethu kunye nabezoshishino ukuzisa
uzinzo ngexesha lezidubedube ebezayame ezemfundo. Ndithi ke,
ngxatsho ke mathole anyongande kudlelana; ze nisoloko nithe gqolo
ukwenza njalo, kufa ayayo kakade.
Xa sithetha ngeSebe leZemfundo ePhakamileyo, iikholeji kwakunye
needyunivesiti esinazo kweli xesha sikulo ngoku ziphucuke kakhulu.
BesiseMpumalanga, umntu othi akabonanga ngongenawo amehlo. Xa umntu
esiya ezilalini uyakuphawula ukuba indima edlalwe ngulo Mphathiswa
ebambisene noSekela Mphathiswa wakhe, umnumzana uMana, inkulu
kakhulu ekuzameni ukuzisa elona zinga liphezulu nokutshintsha imeko
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yabantwana bethu kwimeko abebefudula bephila phantsi kwayo. Yiyo loo
nto sisithi sibamba ngazo zozibini singumbutho i-ANC. Siyanicela
ukuba ningasihlazi kwaye ningabuyi umva koko sele nikwenzile. Enkosi
Sihlala. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Hon
Chairperson, the Minister of Higher Education and Training, Dr
Nzimande, Chairperson of the Select Committee of Higher Education
and Training, hon Zwane and members of the Select Committee of
Higher Education and Training, members of the NCOP, DirectorGeneral, senior officials, staff members from the department, heads
and the executives of all our post schools entities and
institutions, honoured guests, comrades and friends, we rise to
present the 2017-18 budget and programme plans of the department
during the year of Oliver Tambo, one of the greatest leaders of our
movement and of our country. We never got to enjoy the fruits of his
toil. This year, President Tambo would have celebrated the century
of selfless struggle. A struggle waged by men and women of loft
thoughts and higher purpose, patriots who envisioned and dreamt of a
better South Africa.
It is no political rhetoric that we come from a painful and shameful
past characterised by unequal distribution of resources and
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educational opportunities. There are no conditions under which the
past can be glorified for it deliberately blocked the career
aspirations of many of our African people. The apartheid system did
not acknowledge that choosing a career is a human right matter and
President Tambo had this to say as he, himself, was deprived of an
opportunity to pursue a career of his own choice:
I didn't really want to be a teacher, but there was nothing else I
could be. Most of those who went to the university became
teachers. It was just the racial restriction on Africans.
Inherently, this quote is the picture of the status of the apartheid
education and its restrictive nature. Upon acquiring freedom, we
embarked on the process of rewriting history. We re-engineered our
education system and we have put in place legislative frameworks to
guide us on our new trajectory. These are the proceeds f democracy.
The legislative and policy frameworks that we have introduced play a
crucial role in redressing the past and landscaping the future we so
much desire.
The White Paper for post school education and training is our
expression of the future we aspire for our system and it instructs
us to establish, amongst other things, career counselling as an
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integral component of the post school education and training system.
In October 2014, the fully fledged career development service was
established into departments and there is no doubt that this will go
a long way in guiding our young people as they proceed to
institutions of higher learning. Our view is that no child should
enter institutions of higher learning without a clear career
direction and to mitigate this challenge, we have been rolling out
youth exposures across the breath and length of the country,
targeting rural and remote areas in order to provide guidance to our
learners and out of school youth on which careers to pursue if
indeed their employment prospects are to be improved.
Coupled with these efforts we have started rolling out the 2017 leg
of the Apply Now Campaign where we are visiting rural and townships
schools across the country, disseminating information on the need
for matriculants to apply on time to institutions of higher
learning. Two years ago, we launched and declared 2014-2024 as the
decade of the artisan with the sole aim of creating a pipeline of
qualified artisans who can play a crucial role in growing the
emerging sectors of our economy and in turn create a massive
employment for our youth.
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To date, the following are notable achievements on artisan
development since 2009: the establishment of National Artisan
Moderation Body, NAMB; list of trade occupation as per gazette 35626
in August 2012; a policy for a Generic National Artisan Learner
Grant Funding and Administration System; and lastly, the publishing
of the Artisan Recognition of Prior Learning Policy Criteria and
Guidelines.
The Higher Education and Training HIV/AIDS Programme is continuing
to implement comprehensive programmes that respond to the impact of
the dual epidemics in the higher education and training sector.
Today we report with a sigh of relief, confident that the measures
we have since put in place will result in better returns of the
investment and better student drop out rates.
We acknowledged that the 2016 nationwide student protests on issues
of gender-based violence in our institutions were calling for action
and leadership. In this connection, a technical task team has been
appointed to address issues of sexual gender-based violence in the
post school sector and develop a policy framework that aims to
provide practical guidelines for all universities and colleges on
the prevention and response to gender-based violence at all our
institutions. A detailed report will be given to the Select
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Committee on the progress that we are making on this front. Let me
take this opportunity to thank the Minister, the Select Committee,
the ANC, the President of the country for entrusting this
responsibility on us, the Director-General, senior official staff
and the Ministry staff for their unwavering support and continuous
hard work. Thank you very much Chair. [Applause.]
Ms T G MPAMBO-SIBHUKWANA: Hon Chairperson, members and fellow South
Africans, education can be deemed as being one of the most important
tools used in contemporary society in order to succeed. With this, I
am taking the call from Newcastle to the Minister. He knows it very
well.
Hon Chair, the historical context of our country is one which does
not only place importance on the right to education, but is also
essential in understanding why such a right is so important that it
should be deemed more as a right than a privilege afforded to the
people of South Africa. The Constitution provides that everyone has
the right to basic education, and further provides that everyone is
also afforded the right to further education, compelling the state
to take reasonable measures in ensuring that this right is
progressively available and accessible to all.
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We are now 23 years into our democracy. It is important for us to
critically examine the changes and progress in our state of
education. Just recently we, as country, witnessed the start of
civil unrest with regard to the state of country‘s higher education
and training. Although student protests included a number of issues
such as the quality of education provided in higher institutions of
learning and the remnants of the colonial past, the main focus was
the issue of access to education.
Funding in education is both a historical and contemporary problem
in South Africa. The question is, if citizens continue paying taxes
which increase over time, where exactly does the problem lie? The
select committee presented to us reports that there has been an
increase in the number of allocations for students in universities,
who are funded from 205 000 in 2016 to 262 000 in 2017. Although
such figures are important, they do not provide the full picture of
the situation. The ―missing middle‖ are the students who, on paper,
are too rich for NSFAS funding but then again too poor to be able to
fully cover their fees or their Gap funding.
Solutions can come from a basic level of revising the requirements
for state coverage. The current household income to qualify for
NSFAS is low and we need to find a lasting solution for students who
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can‘t afford university, but do not fall below the threshold
required by the Department of Higher Education and Training.
Although there has been a general increase the overall budget
allocation and expenditure estimates in the 2017-18 financial year,
there are still discrepancies in the numbers pertaining to the
different programmes in the department‘s framework. Most of the time
student numbers increase, but are not enough to meet government‘s
targets with some exceptional circumstances where the number is
slightly over. Where funds are available, few people have access to
those funds.
The government needs to provide transparency as to why this is an
issue. Moreover, make it clear to each and every South African
citizen as to what happens with the surplus funding; how exactly
does the government plan to bridge the gap between the targeted
amounts and the actual amounts; as well as the students who are
covered by state funding and those who are not yet covered.
With regard to the shortage of funding that goes to the TVET
colleges, the Minister needs to bring democracy into perspective by
making sure that TVET college students are treated like the
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university students. They can‘t be discriminated against, getting
less while others get more.
The NCOP must, as the Minister said, deal with certain issues and
all that. Let them take the DA‘s advice on affording the
opportunities for students and bringing equality into perspective as
per constitutional rights. I also wish to reiterate to the Minister
that we did see the Mpumalanga University with the state-of-the-art
which is excelling. We do agree on that but I want to make it clear
that it is concentrated and must open doors and give opportunities
for other courses to be taken, not only agriculture. Thank you.
[Applause.]
Mr B G NTHEBE: Hon House Chairperson, let‘s take this opportunity
and welcome the presentation by the Minister. We thank you for your
leadership. We want to also thank the Deputy Minister. When we talk
about indigenounised indigenous education system that we want, you
represent an embodiment of such - that young people in the ANC
understands what ANC wants to do. That is why as the ANC, as opposed
to the latter speaker, we have declared education as an apex
priority, not that we are told by anybody but because we understand
that literacy is a weapon of social change and we must then put it
in the hands of our people so that we can liberate, moving forward.
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It is not a weapon of social change in a contemporary world today
because DA says so, hon Mpambo-Shibukwana. It is because ANC has
always been alive to that possibility and we have worked towards the
realisation of such a possibility. Minister, we also want to thank
you because you articulated very well what O R Tambo represents and
he said that a well educated nation should be ready to govern South
African democratic populace and we want to that. How do we do that?
We do that be making sure that we liberate our people, we indigenise
our own education. We make sure that access and participation, as
you said, is enhanced so that our people can be able to advance –
that‘s the education that we want to achieve.
Improvement of access and participation is a reality today. You also
spoke about how do we seek to absorb millions in the technical and
vocational education and training, TVet, colleges and we can only do
that through resources. I am sure Hon Mpambo-Shibukwana missed that
because you were the first speaker who spoke about resources that
needs to be pumped into that space so that we can be able to say ...
But we cannot be told that we should be democratic but you should
tell the DA about equating the landscape between TVet colleges and
universities. The DA is also missing the point. Technical and
vocational education and training colleges are more important and we
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must be able to sing in one voice when we tell our own young people
that it is not fashionable to go to universities alone, TVet plays a
critical role in the economy in making sure that we stimulate the
skills that we need.
The private sector donated something like R138 million and we want
to welcome such a contribution. But we can do more. They can also do
more by making sure that when young people finish schooling they
should be absorbed, moving forward. We also acknowledge that there
is a problem in terms of student accommodation and we are making
sure that we would be moving forward to address that. Mam Zwane we
want to thank you for saying that we should thank the department for
acknowledging that ... you know we are a nation born out of a
dialogue. It is through a dialogue that we find our strength – that
we find each other. Through a dialogue we will find solution to the
current difficulties that are facing the education system.
I want to point out a few things that were raised by hon Hatting.
Hon Hatting spoke about state capture when we are talking about the
importance of higher education. Probably, in another platform we
will teach him what a state represents ... [Interjections.] ... so
that we take it to another level. He also said that we must stop
fraud, but this is the new Ministry leadership that has taken fraud
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to another level, making sure that fraud is nonexistent in the
department. If you know of fraud activities that are happening, the
Minister has a hotline number, you can just call and report so that
we can see what to do. You are probably the first one from the DA to
talk about the poor and the working class, I am sure you are going
to have your membership suspended.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order, hon Nthebe, please
take your seat. Hon Faber, why are you on your feet? Take your seat,
hon Nthebe. Hon Faber, why are you standing?
Mr W F FABER: Thank you House Chairperson, I would like to know if
hon Nthebe would take a very good question.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Okay, take your seat. Hon
Nthebe, are you ready to take a question?
Mr B G NTHEBE: Yes.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): He is ready, hon Faber.
Mr W F FABER: I am so glad hon House Chair. Yes, I would like to ...
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order, hon members.
Mr W F FABER: I would just like to say that this is the debate on
Higher Education and Training and I would like to ...
[Interjections.] ... House Chairperson, I am busy with my question.
I would just like to know, ―How many of this committee meetings does
hon Nthebe attend because he is speaking on the subject?‖
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): The question is irrelevant
but let me check with hon Nthebe. Are you ready to respond?
Mr B G NTHEBE: House Chairperson, I am ready. This is the level and
the kind of DA membership. Let‘s teach you. That‘s what hon Hatting
his caucus can talk about - the escalating fees at the universities
but they are mum when it comes to institutional autonomies because
they want to deny young people access to enter ... [Interjections.]
... No, sit down so that I can answer. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Faber, please take your
seat. Take your seat, hon Faber. Take your seat. Continue, hon
Nthebe.
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Mr B G NTHEBE: Hon Faber, you must be the first one to stand up when
we talk about decolonised and indigenous education so that you can
understand ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Faber, please take your
seat. He is responding to your question. Take your seat, hon member.
Take your seat! Take your seat, hon Faber. No, hon Faber, take your
seat. He is responding to your question. [Interjections.] Are you
... Hon Faber? [Interjections.] Hon Faber, please take your seat.
Hon Nthebe, are you done with your response.
Mr B G NTHEBE: No, I am not done. [Interjections.] Let me also teach
you. The ANC members are all round us, I don‘t need to seat in a
select committee to understand issues of education.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Sorry, hon Nthebe. Hon
Nthebe, take your seat. Hon member, why are you standing?
Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: Madam House Chair, thank you very much. The hon
member offered to answer the question ...
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The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon member! Hon member! Hon
member, you can‘t do that. No, you can‘t do that. You need to tell
us what is it that you want to say.
Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: Exactly that, Madam House Chair, he needs to
answer the question.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Why are you standing?
Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: That‘s my point of order, that he is not
answering the question.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Is it a point of order?
Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: Yes.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): What is the point of order?
Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: That he is not answering the question after he
offered to answer the question. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Okay. Are you done, hon
member?
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Ms B A ENGELBRECHT: Yes.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Please take your seat.
[Interjections.] Please take your seat. Well, you rather give hon
Nthebe zero, but that‘s how he wanted to respond to the question.
Continue, hon Nthebe.
Mr B G NTHEBE: Hon House Chair, we want to thank the ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Nthebe ...
[Interjections.] Hon Nthebe, please take your seat. Hon Faber?
Mr W F FABER: House Chairperson, with due respect, you cannot answer
his question. I asked him how many times, that‘s one, two, three ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon member ...
Mr W F FABER: He did not answer that ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon member, now you are out
of order. He did respond to your question. [Interjections.] Please.
Lets continue, hon member.
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Mr B G NTHEBE: Let me repeat. I said ANC members are all round us; I
don‘t need to attend the select committee meeting to understand
issues of education. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Order, order, order, hon
member! Order.
Mr B G NTHEBE: Hon House Chair ... I will teach you at another
platform, hon Hatting that education is just a string attached to
wisdom. And I can show you that empirical evidence. [Interjections.]
Hon Chair ... Hon Khawula, we want to thank your sentiments that you
are raising positive issues that we need to take into discussion and
surely the ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Nthebe, please take your
seat. Hon Faber, why are you standing?
Mr W F FABER: House Chairperson, on a point of order.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): What is the point of order?
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Mr W F FABER: I asked a very clear question. [Interjections.] Is it
nil, one or two meetings? He is not answering the question.
[Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M C Dikgale): Hon Faber, please respect
the House. I have ruled on that matter and now we want to continue.
Continue, hon Nthebe.
Mr B G NTHEBE: Hon Faber, I am not a member of the select committee,
I attended none. Are you happy now? [Interjections.] Hon Khawula
raised the following points - that we should be able to move with
the necessary speed to address the shortage of properly qualified
lectures in some of the institutions and that we must also address
some of the accreditations of the institutions and the issues of the
delay of the certificates which the Minister has already undertaken.
There is progress in that regard and the Minister is further
committing that these matters will be resolved.
The issue of infrastructure in our institutions is important and
therefore the Minister has also undertaken that such issues will be
resolved. Minister, it is only on this platform that when we
contribute peacefully and immensely to the discussions - both as
students at universities and also as role-players in that space that
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we begin to shape the space that we want to see. It is not by being
a rejectionist EFF that we are going to have free and decolonised
education in South Africa. You should not do that; you don‘t reject
everything that is before you but you contribute positively to the
discourse so that you can shape the outcome of the discourse. Now
you were talking about decolonised education but you reject the
budget. So, when are we going to have that free and decolonised
education? How are we going to have it? You talked about ... and we
want to thank ... and you have a clear example before you. You know
that ―Education‖ Khanyile represents the resilience of young black
person in the space that ... [Interjections.] ... but you are
sitting with a classical example before you and you are unable to
see it. [Interjections.] You cannot come here and reject the budget
when you should be saying that here are some shortfalls. You should
tell us how we can close the loopholes so that we move forward
together as a country which understands that education is important.
It is in all of us that we are able to contribute, moving forward.
As the ANC, hon House Chair, we want to bless the budget allocated.
We want to say that we acknowledge that there are shortfalls and
they will be plucked. Moving forward, we want to thank the Ministry
and all the leadership. We will be able to find each other through a
dialogue and we will find solutions to the problems. Thank you,
House Chair.
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The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Hon Chairperson,
thanks to you and to all who participated in this debate, let me
start by thanking the African National Congress for its unwavering
support to the budget as well as to all the other parties that
supported the budget. What I had wanted to say in my opening input
and I think that it is important, was the role of the Human Resource
Development Council which I think that the NCOP needs to continue to
engage with closely, including its programme of adopt-a-college to
try and persuade the private sector to adopt certain programmes in
colleges or colleges themselves. I would also like to express my
appreciation on the wonderful and sterling leadership provided by
the Deputy President, Comrade Cyril Ramaphosa, and his leadership of
the Human Resources Development Council.
Hon Zwane, we also wish to express our appreciation on your cooperation with the department but without at the same time letting
us off the hook in terms of accounting, which is what we want, what
we need and that is what strengthens us. On the issue of lecturer
qualifications that has been raised by a number of members, we agree
on that entirely. Much of what has been said is true and there is
only one university at the moment that has developed that, however,
we are working with 11 other universities and we are fairly advanced
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in developing college lecturer qualifications. Very soon we may be
having 12 universities that provide this because we actually need
it. We are being assisted by the European Union in this regard.
I do agree that, hon Zwane, the private sector must be able to come
to the party in so far as student accommodation is concerned as well
as moving closure to University of KwaZulu-Natal. Hon Hattingh, we
also strongly condemn this corruption with the Student Financial Aid
Scheme as it has been recently reported and we are acting together
with National Student Financial Aid Scheme. Let me assure you, don‘t
be mistaken, the DA is not going to win the 2019 elections,
definitely not. [Laughter.] You know, whatever you may be seeing now
is challenges in the movement, we are old and we are more than a 100
and years old. We are able to deal with whatever challenges we face
because our people know that it is only the ANC-led alliance that is
capable of taking forward all the advances we have made thus far.
Hon Mampuru, thank you very much for your words of wisdom and we
agree with you on the issue of gate keeping with universities.
Perhaps that is why we should use this opportunity to congratulate
Professor Thabiso Msibi who was appointed dean and head of school of
education at UKZN at age 34 to prove that ... [Applause.] ... it
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doesn‘t take 20 years as all the people say, to actually produce a
professor.
I do not want to talk about the EFF because you oppose anything we
say not because it does not make sense but because it is being said
by the ANC that is why you are actually opposing it. I do agree with
what was being said that you unfortunately loose your focus.
IsiZulu:
Umhlonishwa uKhawula usehambile? Bengizosho kuyena ukuthi siyazibona
lezi zinkinga ze-NSFAS ...
English:
... as we centralise ...
IsiZulu:
... njengoba ngishilo ukuthi siyabhekana nazo kakhulu.
English:
Hon Samka, thank you very much for emphasising the issue of funding
Tvet colleges and for the acknowledgement of the work that was done.
IsiZulu
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Ilungu elihloniphekile uGaehler usehambile? [Ubuwelewele.] Ehene,
ukhuluma kahle impela sengathi angafundisa umholi wakhe uJenene
Holomisa ... [Uhleko.] ... ukuthi akhulume kamnandi njengawe,
njengoba ukhuluma kamnandi uma uthi ...
English:
... people who receive government tenders must provide workplace
training, this is an important point. We agree with you that it is a
good idea and we are going to look at.
Hon Nthebe, thank you very much for your wise words and we say that
of course, you are right, the private sector can still do much more
that what it has done.
IsiZulu:
Sihlalo namalungu ahloniphekile, ngibonge kakhulu ukuthi ngibe kule
Ndlu nangokuthi sikwazi ukuzoxoxisana. Siyabonga.
Debate concluded.
The Council adjourned at 16:13.
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