Hansard: NA: Questions for Oral Reply; Deputy President; Cluster 2: Social Services
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 18 Mar 2015
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
______________ UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 18 March 2015 Take: 106
WEDNESDAY, 18 MARCH 2015
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
The House met at 15:01.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY – DEPUTY PRESIDENT
START OF DAY
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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY
The Deputy President
The SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, the first item on the Order Paper is questions addressed to the Deputy President. The first question has been asked by the hon Singh and is addressed to the hon Deputy President. [Interjections.]
Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Speaker, may I please address you?
The SPEAKER: Yes, please proceed.
Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Speaker, we have written correspondence to you or your office, requesting an opportunity for the hon Sonti to ... [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order! We received it and we have been in touch with her, hon member.
Mr M Q NDLOZI: Yes, according to our correspondence you have agreed. That is why I was worried that you are continuing before ... [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: No, hon member, we have an agreement with her and she knows what is going to happen. [Interjections.]
Mr J S MALEMA: Hon Speaker...
The SPEAKER: Yes, hon Malema, proceed.
Mr J S MALEMA: May I also address you on the remarks you made yesterday about the courts? I asked you to consider withdrawing and apologising for those remarks. I do not know if that is going to be done now or tomorrow. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: No, hon Malema, can you please take your seat and let us proceed with questions to the Deputy President.
Mr J S MALEMA: So you are not going to withdraw those remarks?
The SPEAKER: No.
Mr J S MALEMA: Oh, okay. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Deputy President, please proceed.
QUESTION 5
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The SPEAKER
Question 5:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, regarding the Ministerial Advisory Council on Energy, I have been informed that the process of appointments has been finalised and the Minister of Energy will soon announce the names of council members. So, that is work in progress.
Regarding the question of the current electricity supply constraints, Eskom is implementing load shedding. They are doing it as a last resort when peak demand exceeds the supply of electricity. Eskom’s supply is currently constrained, as many of us know, due to the high number of breakdowns and partial load losses due to its maintenance backlog. Eskom is now committed to carrying out all the required planned preventive maintenance to ensure that the condition of generating plants keeps on improving. This maintenance work naturally involves taking plants offline and, as they do that, it reduces the supply of energy.
In addition to Eskom’s maintenance work, government is pursuing all the other feasible ways of increasing the supply of electricity and reducing demand. This includes, for instance, cogeneration with the private sector and entering into contracts with independent power producers. That process is under way and a number of negotiations are currently being held. Government has already opened up electricity supply in the country to independent private power producers. Private sector power producers are currently providing approximately 800 MW of power to Eskom through short-term cogeneration contracts.
The Department of Energy will also be initiating a process of procuring longer-term cogeneration at the end of March. Those discussions are under way and some have been concluded. The Department has entered into contracts with independent power producers to provide peaking plant power of 1 000 MW. It has also issued a request for proposals from the private sector for a new coal power station of 2 500 MW. The Department of Energy has now managed four procurement processes for renewable energy projects. This is going to involve the private sector quite extensively.
Working together with Eskom and a number of other stakeholders, we are taking decisive action to reduce the need for load shedding and secure our energy supply into the future. A number of measures that are being taken both in the War Room and outside the War Room will pay dividends as we move on. I have been given this responsibility and I have appointed an advisory panel that consists of six South Africans. Their names are Ms Dolly Mokgatle, who is well versed with the workings of Eskom and has worked at Eskom for a number of years but is no longer there; Mr Smunda Mokoena, an electrical engineer; Ms Sy Gourah, an electrical engineer; Mr Bobby Godsell, a businessman who was once the chairman of Eskom; and Prof Anton Eberhard, a professor at UCT in electricity. We are going to get a representative from labour.
On Friday we will be taking other measures in terms of meeting the business sector. Business Leadership SA and Business Unity SA will be meeting with us to discuss a number of proposals that they want to put on the table. Therefore, the War Room is at work and we are doing a number of things to address the challenges that Eskom is facing. Thank you.
Mr N SINGH
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
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Mr N SINGH: Hon Speaker, Hon Deputy President, it is quite disconcerting to learn that the Minister has not yet appointed the advisory council because now more than ever before do we need different stakeholders to come together in order to deal with the electricity problem in our country. Having said that, hon Speaker, I want to agree with what billionaire businessman Mr Patrice Motsepe had to say recently. This is what he said, “Eskom is letting South Africa down very badly.” I am sure that all of us in this House can associate ourselves with that remark.
We know, hon Deputy President, that you have been handed the poisoned chalice of dealing with what is happening in Eskom through the advisory council. We do not know what the abilities and capabilities are of the people you have just mentioned who must come up with tangible solutions to deal with this electricity crisis. However, hon Speaker, four top executives of Eskom have been suspended, with the chairperson of the Eskom board, Zola Tsotsi - and I do not know about the surname - yet to supply the terms of reference for the three-month probe. Now, how can this happen and the terms of reference have still not been put on the table?
Minister Lynne Brown recently reportedly said that she has been frustrated about not getting information from Eskom on its plans. The question is, hon Deputy President, through you, hon Speaker, since you have this poisoned chalice, is there going to be any light at the end of the tunnel for South Africans and for economic development in South Africa?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes, we can say there will be light at the end of the tunnel. As we all know, Eskom faces challenges but these challenges are being addressed. They are being addressed, notwithstanding the fact that the four executives have been put on leave of absence for three months. It is a leave of absence just for three months, as the inquiry takes off and as it happens. It will be done within three months and thereafter a much clearer executive future will be determined. I believe that the problem at the leadership level will be addressed. At the generation level, we are doing as much as we can in the War Room. We are taking a number of measures. A good thing is that the business community, including labour, has asked to meet us as part of the War Room process to put forward a number of proposals that they have. They have indicated that they have practical proposals that can help to a large extent to address this problem. We are not sitting on our laurels but we are going to grab this opportunity that business and labour has put forward to meet with them and to hear what their suggestions are. At the same time we are stabilising the whole system and making sure that load shedding is reduced more and more.
The cogeneration proposals that have been put forward and a number of other initiatives that are being made are going to contribute to addressing the problem. Is there light at the end of the tunnel? Yes, there is light at the end of the tunnel. Thank you. [Applause.]
Rev K R J MESHOE
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Rev K R J MESHOE: Deputy President and Speaker, the engineer and energy expert Andrew Kenny wrote a very informative article titled “The rise and fall of Eskom and how to fix it now”. His advice is that Eskom must return to what it was before: an independent engineering company whose sole duty is to provide sufficient and reliable electricity and cover its costs. He further said that it must concentrate on its core function and appoint its managers, engineers and technicians purely on qualifications and experience and not on skin colour or political affiliation.
We are aware that Eskom has issued denials of race-based retrenchments in order to meet quotas, but the National Union of Mineworkers has confirmed that there is what they call “backroom retrenchments” taking place. Now, I want to know, Deputy President, what government is going to do to ensure and assure the public that the retrenchment of experienced engineers is not taking place. And when executives who have an important role to play at this stage are being suspended, how can the public be assured that that is not going to seriously affect the provision of electricity and that the existing maintenance backlog will still be met on time? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Meshoe, you will remember that the Eskom of the past that you are talking about was the Eskom that generated electricity largely for white people in this country. The majority of our people did not enjoy electricity and that was the work of the Eskom of the past. The task of the Eskom of the democratic dispensation is to make sure that electricity is reticulated to the majority of our people - and that is the difference. We are now talking about the Eskom of today; the Eskom of the democratic dispensation that we have. [Applause.]
Now, when it comes to the issue of retrenchments, there was a process of asking people to take voluntary retrenchment. That has since been stopped. It has been stopped because we want to retain as many skilled people as we possibly can. A number of people, obviously, would have wanted to leave for whatever reason and we have said that retrenchments of a voluntary nature must now stop. I am not aware of any backroom or backyard retrenchments taking place. The fact of the matter is that we need all the skilled people in Eskom. We must admit that we have lost quite a number of skilled people in Eskom. The race is now on to attract as many more skilled people as possible within Eskom and, yes, to go on merit and not on skin colour. However, at the same time Eskom has a task to make sure that as many of the young black people as possible who can come into Eskom and who have the qualifications and skills should be brought into Eskom so that Eskom begins to reflect the demographic nature of our society. Eskom has a duty to do so. We are not advocating wholesale retrenchment; we want to retain skills and we want to retain the best skills that will take Eskom forward. [Applause.]
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Hon Deputy President, madume [greetings]. If we were willing to be honest, I think all of us in this House would agree that the crisis at Eskom is indeed a crisis and not just a challenge. South Africans are losing work all the time as we continue to see so much load shedding taking place. I wonder if the light at the end of the tunnel will come on between two and three in the afternoon and six and seven at night.
Deputy President, my question relates to the fact that I want to confirm whether the provincial war rooms have in any way been performing emergency drills in anticipation of a national power grid failure in its entirety. Are we as South Africans facing this as an imminent prospect? Are the provincial war rooms and the national War Room in fact performing any drills relating to an imminent national grid failure? We have heard information about Cabinet - escape plans, etc. We would really and sincerely like to know if this prospect does in fact exist and if we are having these drills taking place at provincial war rooms? Thank you very much.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I am not aware of any provincial war rooms that are conducting drills in case of system failure. If that was happening, I am sure the national War Room would have been aware of such activities. If the hon member has evidence and proof of this, maybe he will favour us with the information because I am not aware of it.
What I am aware of is that a number of cities are beginning to embark on technological initiatives to deal with reducing the energy demand; to deal with how load shedding can be managed better. A number of them are coming up with innovative ideas regarding the reduction of energy consumption, as well as using a number of innovative measures and initiatives to manage load shedding. So, that is what I am aware of. I am not aware of the other bit. If there is information, then the hon member can put it forward.
The SPEAKER
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
The SPEAKER: Hon Van der Merwe, please continue.
Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Madam Speaker, I mistakenly pressed the hon Van der Merwe’s button, but I pressed mine straight afterwards. With your permission, may I ask the Deputy President a question?
The SPEAKER: Proceed, hon member.
Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Hon Deputy President, in 1994 access to electricity was 34%. Since then the Integrated National Electrification Programme, INEP, has made it possible to electrify 5 977 000 million households, which is nationwide electrification of about 88%. This must be commended and that is the Eskom of today, as you mentioned. My concern is that the current sustainability of today’s Eskom is based on the financial support of the South African government. Would you not agree that that is not a healthy situation? Also, in December 2011 Nersa, which chairs the SA Grid Code Advisory Committee, allocated 3 725 MW of energy capacity to independent power producers, or IPPs. You rightly mentioned that 800 MW is currently from IPP. How is it that Eskom is still unable to connect IPPs to the grid in most cases, especially now when energy or electricity is of the utmost importance in this country? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Clearly Eskom’s financial situation is a matter of great concern and it is being addressed. The inability of Eskom to connect the power that is being generated by IPPs is a matter that is being resolved as we speak. IPP power that has been generated in the power station near Durban and the one in Coega is about to be connected to the grid and we are going to see more and more of this happening. A matter that is being discussed in the War Room is that as IPPs are beginning to generate more and more power, that power then needs to be connected to the grid. So, we are working diligently with Eskom’s management to make sure that we do not drop any of the balls but make sure that power that is generated is connected to the grid because it is needed in the grid.
The initiatives that are taking place, like cogeneration by IPPs, are all going to help a great deal to enhance our grid as Eskom begins to get on top of its maintenance backlog and as more and more of the power stations resolve their problems. A number of them are undergoing repairs. These are repairs that are going to stand our grid in good stead because many of the power stations, as much as they are old, are now being properly repaired and properly maintained. At the War Room level, we are meeting with the original equipment manufacturers and getting to understand what their real challenges are. Those challenges are also being addressed. We have embarked on a wholescale programme of addressing the many challenges that Eskom faces and we are confident that all this will yield good results as we move on. Thank you very much.
QUESTION 6
QUESTION 5
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Question 6:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, over the last two decades South Africa has had to increase rapidly the number of health providers in our country in order to respond to the burden of disease that many South Africans are still exposed to. Given that the needs are quite diverse, provincial departments have adopted different approaches to address gaps in their skills. In some cases, health workers are contracted directly from other sources by the state, and in others NGOs are funded to contract mainly community health workers.
It is also important to highlight that many of our people themselves have volunteered in various capacities and are provided stipends to support their contribution to the national effort of keeping our people healthy.
The provincial departments of health currently have a large number of community health workers assisting with community-based health-related activities. Some are on the department’s payroll, such as in Kwazulu-Natal, while others are employed by NGOs that are active throughout the country, which are in turn contracted by the provincial department, as it happens here in the Western Cape.
As part of re-engineering primary health care, the department is in the process of rolling out primary health care outreach teams. These teams will include community health workers, nurses, environmental health practitioners and health promoters, depending on local health needs.
Part of this process is to regularise the working conditions of community health care workers. To give effect to the statements made by President Zuma regarding temporary workers, all departments will be expected to review their human resources with a view to ensuring compliance with the amendments of the Labour Relations Act.
The Labour Relations Act amendments will see part-time employees, as well as those on fixed-term contracts, afforded much greater protection than they have enjoyed thus far. Its provisions, which apply to existing contracts as of 1 April 2015, require that departments should justify what they may have as short-term contracts for fixed-term contracts of employment, or consider such employees as permanent, and that part-time employees or those on fixed-term contracts not to be treated less favourably than those who are their permanent counterparts.
The national Department of Health will need to provide guidance to provinces throughout the country in this regard and also oversee and monitor compliance with this new dispensation, which kicks in on 1 April 2015. The department is best placed to provide the level of detail that is required by the hon member.
Thank you.
Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Thank you, Mr Deputy President, for your contribution to this question. In light of Operation Phakisa and what you have said to us in terms of the “ideal clinics” that are being rolled out throughout the country, could you tell us this: What action is going to be taken with those provinces that do not buy in to the “ideal clinic” process?
Secondly, I had the opportunity on 27 November 2014 to hear complaints from concerned patients at a clinic in Khayelitsha. I have here pictures of the deplorable conditions under which our people are being treated right here in Cape Town, a stone’s throw away from Parliament, where we make such serious decisions and pass legislation. The people of South Africa; the residents of South Africa; the citizens of South Africa, 21 years into democracy, are being treated so poorly and there is such substandard quality in our clinics!
Yet time and time again I hear people say that the Western Cape, which is not part of that “ideal clinic” process, is a well-run province in terms of health. I find that contrary to what I see, which was reported on 9 December 2014 in the Cape Times. Thank you, Mr Deputy President. Could you please respond? Thank you, Speaker. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon member, on the question of what action will be taken regarding those provinces that do not fall in line and make sure they have the “ideal clinics” envisaged under Operation Phakisa, clearly, we have a political dispensation here where we co-operate as spheres of government, both at national and at provincial level.
Through co-operation and the co-ordination of our activities, we have been able to achieve a great deal. We are hoping that with the introduction of measures or programmes and policies, such as the National Health Insurance, we will be able to get our health care to deliver much better services throughout the country. It will include the way in which our clinics are run throughout the country, so that there will never be a situation where health care is delivered better in one province than in another.
The situation you are talking about here in the Western Cape is known to many of us. We know that the conditions in a number of health care situations, particularly where black people are given treatment, are actually deplorable. [Interjections.] We are aware of that and we have said that some of the leaders want to separate themselves from national initiatives that are meant to ensure that our people enjoy the same health care throughout the country. [Interjections.]
We would also like clinics such as the one that you saw in Khayelitsha to move in the direction of giving our people a much better service. We should not have the deplorable conditions that you saw in Khayelitsha. We are hoping that the deplorable conditions there will come to an end. [Interjections.] Indeed, we urge – we urge - even the provincial government here to make sure that all our people in the Western Cape are given decent health care facilities so that we do not see the differentiation that we have. Thank you. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Ms H O MAXON
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
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Ms H O MAXON: Deputy President, in the state of the nation address - although the EFF was not here because your police took us out - the President declared that this year was the year of the Freedom Charter. The Freedom Charter says, “Contract labour shall be abolished.”
In his response to the debate of the state of the nation address, President Zuma said, “No one should work more than three months on contract labour.” Could you indicate here if you have found out how many South Africans are on contract labour in the public, private and formal sector? Also, what law enforcement strategies are in place to make sure that all these workers are hired full-time on distant labour contract. If not, is your government not engaging in its usual tradition of empty promises? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: What the President announced is a matter that is being followed up, as I alluded to earlier. The amendments to the Labour Relations Act are going to kick in soon. I am not able now, at this stage, to give details - chapter and verse, that is - of how many people are on contract labour. What I do know is that what the President said about ending the exploitation and the lack of protection of workers who have been at work for many years on a part-time contract is being addressed and that the Labour Relations Act is the instrument that is going to be used to achieve that objective. So I can say that this is not an empty promise. The President meant it and it is going to be implemented. Thank you, madam
Prof N M KHUBISA
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Prof N M KHUBISA: Hon Deputy President, you have referred to a system of progression. I just want to ask: How far is prior learning recognised in order for these health care workers, being in the mainstream of the nursing profession, to become professional nurses so that they are kept within the nursing system? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: The process of prior learning is a process that was introduced by the democratic government and it applies right across the board. The SA Qualifications Authority has been at work to put in place measures that will recognise the prior learning of many of our people. Many of our people have gained enormous experience in the work they have done over many years. That has been realised and should be recognised as prior learning.
The SA Qualifications Authority, I am sure, should be finalising the process through which that prior learning will be recognised. So, the people you are talking about should be able to benefit with regard to that as well. Thank you.
Mr I M OLLIS
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mr I M OLLIS: Thank you for taking this question, Deputy President. On 1 April 2015, as you said yourself, the new section in the Labour Relations Act that deals with temporary work is going to come into force. The Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, the CCMA, told us this morning in the Portfolio Committee on Labour that they have seen a dramatic rise in cases being taken to the CCMA since the beginning of the year, when the Labour Relations Act was officially promulgated and put into force.
Now, on 1 April 2015 - because from then on you can employ a temporary worker for only three months – one of two things is going to happen: Either some of them will be taken on permanently, which we really hope will happen because it will be good for people; or they are going to be retrenched and many of those cases are going to land up at the CCMA.
So, my question to you is: What would you do if there is large unemployment resulting from this measure. Also, conversely, if all those cases got dumped at the CCMA, has the government made provision to deal with all those long queues of people coming to table their cases? How are we going to get out of that? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: There really should not be that many cases. This is a process that can be well managed. Embedded in the law itself are a number of measures that deal with justification. You will, as an employer, need to justify this: Why are you employing those people temporarily for a period that can be longer than the three months? There is also a process where you can get exemption.
So, a well-managed process can ensue out of this. I do not believe that we are going to suddenly see a spike in retrenchments as a result of this. All that is needed is that employers should be able to take a number of those workers as permanent employees. Indeed, because businesses face a number of challenges, those who are not able to employ permanently should be able to approach the Department of Labour to get exemptions or to justify why they need to keep people in a temporary type of employment.
Even at the CCMA level, I do not think or believe that we will see so many of them coming forward. If they do, a good interpretation and understanding of the law will be necessary in this regard so that employers themselves can see that there are ways in which this whole process can be managed properly. Thank you.
QUESTION 7
QUESTION 6
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Question 7:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, law enforcement agencies will not hesitate to act decisively against anyone who is found to incite or be involved in such violence. No amount of economic hardship and discontent can justify criminal activity associated with attacks on foreign nationals.
South Africa is a signatory to the Geneva Convention relating to the Status of Refugees and is committed to protecting all foreign nationals in our country. It is government’s duty to ensure that all persons who live in our country are protected from crime, harassment or the violation of their own basic human rights.
Thousands of foreign nationals live in communities across the country and across the socioeconomic spectrum of our country. This coexistence is generally peaceful, often productive and, in many communities, harmonious. Our concern, therefore, is the recurrent manifestations of violence and intolerance that disrupt the way of life and way of doing business in our communities.
In this context, various government departments and agencies are working with civil society to continuously promote the rights of all who live in South Africa and remind people of the responsibilities of good citizenship.
The government at various levels has been in dialogue with South African and foreign nationals in a variety of forums and initiatives. These are meant to foster harmonious relations, mutual understanding and tolerance. Following the violent incidents in Gauteng, for example, the provincial government, led by our Premier Makhura, visited affected shop owners in various communities. The Gauteng department of economic development met with representatives of affected foreign nationals, who indicated their willingness to co-operate with local shop owners and to assist them with skills wherever necessary.
The Minister of Small Business Development has set up a task team to deal with the attacks on foreign nationals and to provide recommendations on how to develop a strategy for this sector. The National Joint Operational and Intelligence Structure has initiated interventions aimed at contributing to preventing and reducing attacks against foreign nationals.
Engagement with community organisations representing the interests of both local and foreign communities allows for information to be shared and used to ensure proactive intervention and responses to threats of violence. It also builds relationships that can be used to engage in crime prevention and other activities, with the potential of building what I can call social cohesion.
We believe that criminals are trying to exploit some of the difficulties that face communities, including issues of competition for opportunities for resources both among South Africans and between South Africans and foreign nationals. We commend the criminal justice system for dealing decisively with the perpetrators of such criminal acts. We commend South Africans for speaking out when these incidents occur or these acts happen and for sustaining the national conversation on social cohesion and tolerance.
We will therefore pursue a range of interventions, from developmental initiatives to policing and security, to ensure that we stamp out violence, disorder and intolerance. Thank you.
Nks X S TOM
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
IsiXhosa:
Nks X S TOM: Siyabulela kakhulu kuSekela Mongameli ngale mpendule igxile kangaka. Siyayazi thina ukuba nokuba kungathiwa ubungqondo bugqwirha bocalulo bungcwatywa kodwa siyasibona isiporho sivuthuza ekuhlaleni. Siyayazi ukuba imbewu eyahlwayelwayo ngocalucalulo, iziqhamo zayo ziyavela namhlanje. Yonke le nto yenzekayo asiyiyo into yayizolo. Sekela Mongameli, ingaba ikhona na indlela yokuba kwenziwe iziseko eziza kuthi zincedise abantu ukuze bakwazi ukuwuqwalasela ngokwabo lo mba kuba inkulu indima edlalwa ngurhulumente. Abantu abahlala kwezo ndawo mabanikwe ithuba ukuze ibe ngabo abajongana nale mingeni kuba ngabo abaziyo ngokuqhubekayo kwezo ndawo bahalala kuzo, hayi abantu abafika nje baphinde bahambe. Ndiyabulela. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
Tshivenḓa:
MUFARISA MUPHURESIDENNDE: Ndi a livhuwa mbudziso yeneyi yo vheiwaho. Ndi I fhindlula nga nḓila heyi: Ndi ngoho uri muvhuso wa Afrika tshipembe u fanela uri u thuse vhathu vhoṱhe, nga maanḓa u vha thuse kha zwezwi zwa mabindu uri vhathu vhoṱhe vha kone uri na vhone vha dzhenise zwanḓa zwauri vha ḓithuse na vhone.
English:
When the President was articulating the vision of government in the state of the nation address, government announced measures that will also play a role in what we call radical economic transformation. These are already being partly rolled out by a number of structures throughout our country. For instance, in Gauteng, the Gauteng Provincial Government has decided that they are going to go on a massive drive of revamping the township economy. That is where there are communities that are under a lot of stress and that is where foreign nationals also find themselves. In order to increase harmony and tolerance and to promote social and national cohesion, the issue that is being addressed is to ensure that there is a revamping of the township economy so that all our people should have opportunities at the economic level. When they have opportunities at the economic level, our own people and communities that are made up of South Africans will be able to learn from foreign nationals as all of them will be able to participate in gainful economic activities that will lead to the improvement of their lives.
Tshivenḓa:
Nga zwewzo zwine zwa khou itiwa, muvhuso wo ḓiimisela uri kha zwa ikhonomi vhathu vhoṱhe vhashu vha kone u wana tshipiḓa tshine vha nga vha natsho uri na vhone vha vhane mvelaphanḓa. Ndo livhuwa. [U vhanda zwanḓa.]
Ms S J NKOMO
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THE PRESIDENT
Tshivenḓa:
Mufumakadzana vho S J NKOMO: Mufarisa Muphuresidennde, vho fhindula zwavhuḓi. Ndo zwipfa, fhedzi huna zwiṅwe zwine nda khou toḓa u zwi vhudzisa nga heyi mbudziso yashu ya ṋamusi. Tshithu tsha u thoma ...
English:
... I would like to find out about the successes and challenges in addressing social cohesion. How have we actually collated that information? We note that when we were faced with the issue of xenophobia a few years back, and a few weeks back, we were faced with the issue of the burning of shops belonging to foreign nationals.
Tshivenda:
Hezwi zwithu zwi itea nga iṅwe nḓila nga uri vhathu vha hone vha tou tshintsha maitele a zwithu. Fhedzi riṋe sa muvhuso, hu khou ṱoḓea uri ri ite mushumo washu, ri vhone uri ...
English:
... we come up with educational material, especially...
Tshivenḓa:
... kha vhana vhashu kha zwikolo.
English:
... so that that information can be communicated from an early age and tolerance is actually promoted. School education programmes can include the issue of social cohesion.
Tshaivenḓa:
Hu khou ṱoḓea zwuri ri ḓivhe zwa uri sa tshipiḓa tsha pfunzo heyi, ri gudise na vhathu kana na vhana vhashu.
English:
... that most foreigners who come into our country are bringing in much needed jobs ...
Tshivenḓa:
A si uri vha khou ḓa u dzhia mishumo ya vhathu.
English:
All of that needs to come in so ...
Tshivenḓa:
Ri khou humbela uri ri vhudzuise uri ...
English:
... how do we actually come up with a programme that people can also take home.
Tshivenḓa:
Na vhana vhashu zwikoloni vha tshimbile vho fara zwiṅwe vho sa zwibugwana zwiṱuku na zwenezwo zwithu. Ndo livhuwa.
Xitsonga:
XANDLA XA PRESIDENTE: Ndza khensa swinene. Ndzi pfumelelana na n’wina leswaku nchumu lowu lavekaka hileswaku hi fanele hi dyondzisa vana va hina swinene. Leswi swi ta endla leswaku na vona eka leswi swa vun’we bya vanhu (social cohesion) va khomisana mavoko leswaku hinkwerhu hi ta kota ku tirhisana.
English:
The social cohesion project is a national project for all of us as South Africans. This is where, even as Members of Parliament, we should take up the challenge seriously. Each one of us is meant to embark on this important project to ensure that social cohesion becomes a widespread practice throughout the country. We have all not only been concerned about these attacks against foreign nationals but we have also seen the ugly head of racism rearing itself. Some of the things that have been happening in a number of provinces, including here in the Western Cape, are matters of serious concern to us. It is only through our activities as leaders of our people when we promote social cohesion and teach our children the principles and the values of nonracism and nonsexism that we will be able to be more successful.
I agree with you about spreading the word through education, and indeed, the Department of Arts and Culture has already started producing a number of pamphlets. One of those pamphlets that I was able to have a look at is the one that promotes our values and has our national symbols, explains our national anthem and our coat of arms. All this is being done with a view to educating young people. Indeed, our task as Members of Parliament is to lead from the front when it comes to national cohesion and also to preaching the message of nonracialism. If we were able to do that in all our provinces, we would be able to achieve great results.
Tshivenḓa:
MUFARISA MUPHURESIDENDE: Ndi khou tendelana navho uri na vhone vha khou zwi vhona nga u ralo uri ri thusane, ri farane zwanḓa. Ndo livhuwa. [U vhanda zwanḓa.]
Mna S C MOTAU
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THE PRESIDENT
Sepedi:
Mna S C MOTAU: Ke tla bolela ka Sepedi ka gore ke kwele gore re boletše ka Xitsonga le Tshivenḓa. Ke Mudzanani le nna.
English:
Hon Deputy President, I believe that we can agree that government can do very little to deal with the xenophobic behaviour and prejudicial attitudes of individual South Africans … [Interjections.] Agaa! ... but that government has both the ability and the responsibility to do everything in its power not to or appear to endorse or condone xenophobic or racist attitudes and the associated violence to which you refer.
Therefore, hon Deputy President, what are you and the government officials doing to root out the harmful manifestations of xenophobia and discrimination that we see particularly in the public health care sector; among police officers across the country; and in the country’s many Home Affairs and Refugee Centre offices, where it is well documented that foreign nationals face ill treatment at the hands of civil servants almost as a matter of course.
MOTLATŠAMOPRESIDENTE: Mmušo wa rena o dira tše ntši go leka go fokotša wona mathata ao a xenophobia ao le bolelago ka wona.
English:
Our departed Minister of Public Service, Comrade Collins Chabane, was one of the key activists in this regard, particularly when it came to civil servants. I was privileged to participate with him when he launched one of the initiatives that they have in the Public Service. This was to get the Public Service not only to put our people first – Batho Pele – but also to inculcate in our public servants the values of our South Africanness, particularly in relation to how they should treat people and foreign nationals.
I was able also to accompany our Minister of Home Affairs when we went to one of the centres where they receive people who are seeking asylum. I saw for myself how the message is being inculcated in our civil servants that they should treat even people from other nations with dignity and with respect; how they should treat them properly. So, the government is doing a lot to spread this message around. Yes, this is a national project and it will take time but we all need to give it the maximum support that we can. As I said earlier, it requires all of us as leaders – each one of us - where we see an act of xenophobia, where we see an act of racism, to actively take the initiative to stop it. If there is a restaurant that is known in the Western Cape - and there are many here - where black people are not well treated, it should be the leadership of the Western Cape that goes there and says that this is not allowed and should not be allowed in South Africa.
I have friends who have sought to book into hotels in the Western Cape and when their surnames have been pronounced and they have tended to be African, they are blocked. I have young people who tried to get flats to live in here in the Western Cape. When they hear they are African, immediately they are blocked. Those are acts of racism and we need to take action ourselves to make sure that we bring it to an end. It is for that reason that I say all of us as leaders who are here must be seen to be taking steps to get rid of the cancer of racism in our country, as well as xenophobia. That is what we should be doing. [Applause.]
Rev K R J MESHOE
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
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Rev K R J MESHOE: Hon Speaker, Deputy President, the ACDP has on a number of occasions condemned xenophobic attacks in our country. We have also spoken to people who condone the attacks on foreign-owned shops in townships to try and establish the reasons why they condone it. Two reasons are being given. Firstly, they claim that some foreign nationals are subsidised and funded by individuals and organisations, which they claim to know, and this gives the foreign nationals an advantage over the local spaza shop owners. Secondly, they claim that most of these foreign nationals are not registered taxpayers and therefore do not contribute to the South African economy, while they as South Africans are expected to pay tax.
So, what I want to know is what will the government do to address these allegations because we believe that if they are properly addressed, this will help to create a better understanding among our locals and foster greater tolerance of foreign nationals, as well as social cohesion. Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, I must commend the hon Rev Meshoe because I have heard him on public platforms condemning the acts that have been perpetrated against foreign nationals. He is to be commended. He is one of those leaders who actively participate in spreading the message that we would like to be spread to promote our values of respect for foreign nationals and to treat them with dignity. So, we thank you for that.
What is being done, hon Meshoe, is that the law enforcement agencies have been doing quite a lot in this regard and their activities are to be commended. If hon Meshoe has any information, I propose that he should come forward with that information so that we can put it to the law enforcement agencies and they can act on it. The kind of thing he is talking about - for example, how people are being subsidised and how known people are perpetrating some of these acts - are things that can be acted on. We need that information so that we can root out this type of activity among us as South Africans. Thank you very much. QUESTION 8
QUESTION 7
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Question 8:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, the hon Lekota will remember that the War on Poverty campaign, a key component of the antipoverty programme, was announced by the former President Thabo Mbeki in the 2008 state of the nation address. It aimed to identify and reach out to poor households with a view to improving their conditions in the shortest possible time.
Since its inception in 2008, the War on Poverty campaign has been expanded to embrace various interventions in response to Cabinet mandates. Following the July 2011 extended Cabinet lekgotla, the broad antipoverty programme was extended to also focus on job creation and public employment programmes. Food security and nutrition have also been added as important elements of this programme.
One of the emphases of the programme is the identification of household change agents. These are people who, with some assistance, can be empowered for the benefit of the entire household. The concept of household change agents finds its most concrete expression in provincial integrated service delivery approaches. These include programmes that had been conceptualised by a number of our provinces. Our provinces have been quite creative in coming up with not only names but also with the content and the substance of some of these programmes, because they differ and they impact effectively. In KwaZulu-Natal, for instance, they have a programme called Operation Sukuma Sakhe and in the North West they call it Setsokotsane.
National government departments have likewise put in place programmes that focus on change agents. For example, in 2012-13, the National Rural Youth Services Corps assisted over 4 500 young people to access skills to improve their livelihoods. This proves beneficial because these were young people in the rural areas who did not have access to any form of assistance or help. This programme was able to reach them. It gave them hope and involved them in activities. In a number of cases it also gave them opportunities to access better employment opportunities.
The first phase of the Expanded Public Works Programme, from 2004 to 2009, achieved the target that has been put in place. This was 1 million work opportunities one year ahead of the plan. Phase Two, from 2009 to 2014, created over 4 million work opportunities. I have said here before that these are work opportunities that give our people a great opportunity to access much better chances and opportunities to move forward with their lives.
By the third quarter of 2013-14, the Jobs Fund had helped to create nearly 94 000 new jobs through support to 89 approved projects with approved grant funding that ran over R4 billion.
During this administration, the antipoverty and short-term job creation programme will focus more sharply on socioeconomic transformation; targeted interventions with specific outcomes; more effective mobilisation of the private sector and communities; and the replication of best practice. It seeks to improve the scale, impact and spatial targeting of public employment programmes. The broad antipoverty programme finds expression in different forms across national departments. Many of our departments, as well as the provinces and local government levels, are intricately involved in this. This is where you will see co-operative governance at work.
Participation in these programmes extends beyond government to include business, labour and civil society. I have seen for myself how businesses have been drawn in and how they have been attracted to participate in some of these programmes. I can state that this is one of the truly empowering programmes that the government has embarked on and it is to be applauded for coming up with such an innovative programme, one that is also applauded internationally by a number of organisations. Thank you, Madam Speaker. [Applause.]
Mr M G P LEKOTA
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mr M G P LEKOTA: Hon Deputy President, when the antipoverty programme was initiated, one had anticipated that one of the first areas where we would see its operations would be the original townships for the black sections of the population - and then, of course, their cousins that surround them: the informal settlements. One had hoped to see when we go out there that the biggest areas of activity would be places like Bekkersdal, where you find lots of young people hanging around. One would have thought that the money that is being budgeted here to be additional funds for municipal local government structures would employ these young people. Some of them would earn by way of building roads or working land that has been identified as fallow. People could be put in there to grow vegetables and things like that instead of getting grants. But today, when we go to those areas, it is really shocking. There are piles and piles of rubbish. There are young people who are sitting around doing nothing. They could have been employed to remove rubbish and clean the area. This would give people a sense of living the life of human beings.
What are local governments doing with the money that we budget and send out there? Has government checked on this? Why are they not mounting these kinds of projects on a localised basis, so ensuring that there are no idle hands sitting around? It is that idleness that contributes to the waves of crime that we are seeing in unprecedented numbers.
We do not see evidence of such programmes. I have no doubt that the ideas that are being thrown around, including what the hon Deputy President is reading to us now, are there, but we do not see them in practice. When you go to those communities and look around, you will not see them because they are not there, Mr Cronin. You will not see them. You can look as much as you want but you will not see them because they are not there. If they were there, we would all see them.
In the townships where we grew up, people are sitting on deep piles of rubbish. We cannot deny it. We see it all over South Africa. We cannot see projects that are not there, however brilliant the ideas may be in theory. Can the government please do something? Track down the money that we budget here. When the money gets to a particular town, metro or entity that supports municipal financing, go and see how much of it actually goes into those projects and ends up providing resources that young people can benefit from. I thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker and hon Lekota, I think quite a bit of what you are saying is the case. But if you went to a number of other places and opened your eyes, you would be able to see that work is actually happening. We can also see quite a lot of what these programmes are doing.
Recently, we had a raging fire here in the Western Cape. Most of the people who fought that fire were people who had been trained by and participated in one of those programmes. Working on Fire has produced great fire fighters in our country. There are also people who are participating in Working for Water. That is part of the programme that has been yielded by this campaign. A number of people are health workers. They are helping communities and sick people in those communities. That is part of the work that is happening.
Sometimes I see what you see, but I also go to places where I see towns that are getting cleaner. I also see young people who are working. I do see a change that is under way, hon Lekota. We are facing challenges, but this is one government that is addressing those challenges. It is not sitting on its laurels. It is a government that is not just sitting and talking; siyaquba [we continue]. We are working and we are doing something. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr M HLENGWA
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Speaker and hon Deputy President, you have spoken about public employment and, quite frankly, we all know that unemployment in South Africa remains high. What you are saying is that it is actually delivering. The truth is that on the ground this is not happening. People continue to find themselves in conditions of unemployment and it is difficult to improve their lives.
The second issue, which is at the heart of the failure of the programme that you are speaking about, is the heavy hand of politics. Before you can get assistance, you have to get the membership card of a particular party or else they will not help you. That plays with the poverty and suffering of our people! Hon Deputy President, I am looking to you to give a commitment and to say how you are going to sort this out. The assistance given to our people may not be centred on party politics, but actually on the needs that they have.
We speak about access to education. However, how do we explain the fact that students from poor communities are still finding it difficult today to access the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, funding, which is supposed to be at the forefront of assisting them? All this talk about this programme, saying that it is working, has not in fact translated into an actual result in the lives of the people. The education process in itself has failed young people, particularly poor young people who face the particular issue of funding.
The heavy hand of politics can be seen in this matter. It can also be seen in the fact that we do not have a co-ordinated approach in how government departments are working to address the issues that we are supposed to be addressing. I thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, the figures that are referred to - about 4 million job opportunities - are not made-up figures. They are audited figures. Indeed, the target that the ruling party has set - of 6 million job opportunities - is a target that will be reached and it will be properly audited. It is not a made-up figure. Of course, a lot of our people are out of employment and everybody is aware of that. Are we taking steps to address this problem? The answer is, yes. We are not sitting and doing nothing. On this side of the House, the executive - and indeed even the members who are sitting this side - are continuously occupied with how we can increase the level of people who are employed. That is a job that we are busy with and we will remain committed to it.
When one has access to resources, it is always tempting to say I want only my tribe, my group or my party to benefit. But what we can say with great clarity is that jobs that have to be dispensed through the Expanded Public Works Programme are not being dispensed through political party affiliation. [Interjections.] They are not; they are dispensed on a completely nonparty basis. If they are, please bring the evidence to me. [Interjections.] Bring the evidence to me!
The Back to Basics campaign, which the Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs has launched, is also based on a no-party-affiliation basis. That is how it is being executed. Is it beginning to gain traction? The answer is, yes, it is beginning to gain traction. We are committed to making sure that all of our people get jobs. The ANC does not rule members of the ANC only in South Africa. It rules South Africa and all the people of South Africa. [Applause.] That is why we continue to enjoy the support of over 11 million people - they know the track record of this government. If we did it for only party members or party supporters, the social grants would only be given to the ANC members. But they are given to all our people because that is what we are. Thank you very much.
Mr N S MATIASE
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mr N S MATIASE: Deputy President, the War on Poverty programme does not deal with the landlessness, joblessness and low wages that are the structural reasons why there is poverty in South Africa. Instead, the Expanded Public Works Programme is part and parcel of the low-wage and super-exploitative contract labour regime. We are fighting to address the structural problems of our economy. Your programme seeks a peaceful, negotiated transition instead of waging war on poverty, hence its spectacular failure. This is reflected by the fact that poverty has increased from 20% to 21,5%, according to Statistics SA.
Hon Deputy President, we want to echo the words of Jean Jacques Rossouw when he said: “When the people shall have nothing more to eat, they will eat the rich.” These words must ring the alarm bells that poverty is a ticking time bomb in this country. You know what, Mr Deputy President, the poor will come and visit you. They will knock on your door because they know you have something like about R18 million to spend on a buffalo. [Laughter.] You are in the business of breeding buffalos of a special breed.
My question to you is: What is your reaction to that, particularly in light of the fact that you are now also implicated in the killing of poor, hungry and frustrated workers in Marikana when they ask for a minimum wage to address their own kind of poverty? What is your answer … [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, do you have a follow-up question? [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, one of the great counsels our President gave us when he stood there is that one should play the ball and not the man. [Applause.] The hon member is playing the man. [Interjections.] In the end, we have to address the issue of poverty. As the ANC, we have taken a lot of steps to address the issue of poverty. The programmes we have put in place bear testimony to that and we will not depart from the course that we have embarked on. Our task is to attack the three enemies of our people, which are unemployment, poverty and inequality. We will not be detracted from that whatever anyone says. We are on a journey to address those three ills in our society and we will succeed. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. [Applause.]
Ms S P KOPANE
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Ms S P KOPANE: Madam Speaker and Mr Deputy President, there is no doubt that some of the projects you have mentioned this afternoon, including the social grants, have helped to reduce the abject poverty in South Africa. But the recent Statistics SA report noted that 12 million of our people are still struggling to make ends meet. The majority of them do not qualify for early social grants or even get the opportunity to be taken into those projects that you have mentioned this afternoon.
Despite this, your own government’s most recent Budget has resulted in a higher fuel levy and increased taxes. How can your government claim that it is working so hard to reduce poverty while the national Budget raised the cost of living for poor people and does nothing to encourage economic growth? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: This matter was clearly addressed by our Minister of Finance. If one looked at the Budget, one would see that it was so well structured and so well balanced in order to make sure that there was no reduction in all the programmes that are meant to give support to our people, particularly poor people in our country. There was no reduction. In fact, there was an increase in their social grants, their pensions and in various other programmes that are aimed at making sure that they get a better life.
Matters such as an increase in the fuel levy are matters of general application, but at the same time poor people are also being supported through various other measures. If one has to analyse that Budget carefully, you would see that there was a very good balance. I do not think it was an anti-poor Budget at all. Thank you very much
The SPEAKER: That concludes Questions to the Deputy President and I thank him. [Interjections.]
Mr M Q NDLOZI
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The SPEAKER
Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Speaker, we need guidance and I hope you are going to provide it to us. What happens in a situation where we ask questions and they are not answered? The Deputy President was asked about the structural conditions that cause poverty. He is a capitalist; he has taken R18 million that he earns from Marikana, where there is no water and where there are people who do not have money, and he does not answer that question. He says we are playing the man. But he is a capitalist who has taken R18 million and does not spend it on people. What happens when we ask questions and they are not answered? It is wrong, hon Speaker.
The SPEAKER: Hon Ndlozi, submit a substantive motion. That is what you need to do.
Mr M Q NDLOZI: About the answering of questions?
The SPEAKER: Whatever you want to ask, which is about casting aspersions on the character of the hon the Deputy President. Please, take your seat now.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION
The SPEAKER
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The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, I would like to address you in terms of Rule 115 of the Rules of the National Assembly. If we cast our minds back to the last time the Deputy President was in the House to answer our questions, just before we started, the Deputy President indicated that due to the sub judice rule - and I believe it was a very flimsy interpretation of that rule - he would whiz out of answering the first Question on the Order Paper. He indicated that he would be prepared to come back and answer that question once the matter was no longer sub judice. We contend that it never was sub judice.
What should have happened in terms of Rule 115 is that that Question should have been regarded as standing over. It should, in fact, have appeared on the Order Paper today because, as we now know, the matter has been dispensed with by the courts - even though the sub judice rule did not apply. I refer you to the National Assembly Guide to Procedure, which says very clearly:
The Deputy President will answer a maximum of four questions on each day on which he or she answers questions. This excludes questions on the Question Paper because they stood over.
I seek your guidance given the fact that the Deputy President stood up last time and said he was not prepared to answer the Question that time. That question has now stood over and must appear on the Order Paper for the next time the Deputy President appears in the House so that he can have his day to answer it, as he committed to do during the last session.
The SPEAKER: Order! We will indeed follow up on that matter. [Interjections.]
The MINISTER OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING: Hon Speaker, can I raise a point of order, and please make a ruling on it. Is this parliamentary: The hon Ndlozi is wearing exactly the same socks as yesterday. [Laughter.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Nzimande, please allow hon Ndlozi the freedom to wear whatever he wants to wear.
Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Speaker, I think you must call the hon Minister of Higher Education and Training to order. He is casting aspersions on me. In addition, the hon Minister of Trade and Industry is making gestures at me. Can you take them to the Powers and Privileges Committee or call the police to remove them because they are disrupting the House. [Laughter.] I am wearing happy socks and they are jealous, essentially. [Laughter.]
The SPEAKER: Order! I will consider taking action against them, hon Ndlozi.
The SPEAKER
The SPEAKER
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PERSONAL EXPLANATION OF REMARKS MADE IN NATIONAL ASSEMBLY ON 17 MARCH 2015
(Ms N P Sonti)
The SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, earlier today hon N P Sonti wrote to me to request an opportunity to give a personal explanation of the incident that occurred in the National Assembly yesterday, 17 March. Assembly Rule 69(2) states that a member may, with the prior consent of the presiding officer, explain matters of a personal nature, but that such matters may not be debated and that the member should confine himself or herself strictly to the vindication of his or her own conduct. I will now allow the hon member the opportunity, as requested.
IsiXhosa:
Nks N P SONTI: Somlomo wam ndiyabulela kakhulu ngeli thuba undinike lona namhlanje. Ngokuzithoba okukhulu – nindimamele nina [Kwahlekwa.] Nindimamele! – [Uwelewele] ndize kucela uxolo olukhulu kuMzantsi Afrika wonke uphela nakule Ndlu yoWiso-mthetho endiyihloniphayo. Ndicela uxolo ngegama endithe ndalisebenzisa xa bendikhala. Ndifanele kuba ilungelo lam andilifumani kwindawo endihlala kuyo eMzantsi Afrika. Elaa gama bendilibiza, Somlomo nani malungu eNdlu endiyihloniphayo, bendibhekisa kubantu abasuka ngaphandle abangenazo iimpepha-mvume zalapho ekhaya.
Ndifuna ukucacisa ukuba kwindawo esihlala kuzo- kwaye le nto ndiza kuyithetha nani niyayazi – sihamba sidibana namagama amaninzi ngokokuhlala. Ngenxa yokungazi nokungaqondi uphele uwasebenzisa ucinga ukuba amkelekile. Into ithi, siya kufunda side siye kufa. Ndiyayibulela ke le Ndlu namhlanje xa indibonisa ukuba akhona amagama endingafanelanga ukuba ndiwasebenzise kule Ndlu. Ndicela uxolo kakhulu ngegama endilisebenziseleyo. Ndibathanda kakhulu ukusuka kwisizwe, uMzantsi Afrika, nakule Ndlu endikuyo ndiyabahlonipha.
Niyalibiza ke nina mna ke andisafuni ukulibiza ke ngoku. [Uwelewele.]- libizeni ke nina kuba niyazithanda izinto, mna andisoze ndilibize kuba ndiyalihlonipha. [Uwelewele.] Ndiyalirhoxisa, Somlomo wam omhle kakhulu, elo gama ngokuzithoba okukhulu. [Kwaqhwatywa.] Ndiyabathanda aba bantu kwaye ndihlala nabo apho ndihlala khona. Ndibathanda gqitha. Enkosi.[Uwelewele.] [Kwaqhwatywa.]
The SPEAKER: Siyabulela. [Thank you.] I thank the hon member.
THE SPEAKER – RULING
MS N P SONTI – EXPLANATION
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SUB JUDICE MATTERS
(Ruling)
The SPEAKER: Hon members, before I leave the Chair, I would like to make one ruling on sub judice matters. On 11 March, during questions to the President, hon Ndlozi of the EFF raised a point of order. He was objecting to the hon President’s reference to the events of 21 August 2014 during his reply to a question. Hon Ndlozi stated that the matter was sub judice, and that members should refrain from making a judgment on what was before a court of law. I undertook to study the Hansard and return to the House with a ruling.
In terms of Rule 67, no member shall refer to any matter on which a judicial decision is pending. To be sub judice means that a matter must be awaiting adjudication or be under adjudication by a court of law. As previously ruled, the rationale for this rule is that Parliament should not influence or seem to be seeking to influence the administration of justice. The Chair has the responsibility to apply this rule in such a way as to impose the minimum limitation on open debate and the right of members to freedom of speech.
To balance the application of the sub judice rule and the right of members to freedom of speech, the practice has been to allow members to refer to matters before the courts in general terms, but not to discus their merits or to refer to the matter in a way that could prejudice the case.
It is often not possible for the Chair to ascertain immediately the relevance of the sub judice rule to a particular matter. For that reason, members are often cautioned to not say anything that attempts to predetermine the outcome of the case or comment on the merits or matters that are part of evidence before a court. I therefore appeal to hon members and hon members of the executive, including the hon President, to always exercise caution in such instances. I thank you, hon members, for your attention. We will, of course, also convey the ruling to the hon President. [Applause.] We now come to questions to Ministers in the Social Services cluster.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSTION: Madam Speaker, may I rise?
The SPEAKER: Proceed, hon Steenhuisen.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSTION: Firstly, I would like to congratulate you on that ruling. It was certainly one of your more inspired rulings. I also want to say to you, Madam Speaker, that I would like to address you in terms of Rule 112, if I may.
The SPEAKER: Go ahead, hon member.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSTION: Madam Speaker, you will recall that the DA wrote to the Speaker’s Office requesting an urgent question to be placed on the Order Paper around the public pronouncement made by the Minister of State Security accusing members of political parties and others of being spies. We requested that the matter be put down as an urgent question. Your Office wrote back and declined it on the basis that it must go to the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence, JSCI. Madam Speaker will know that, in relation to another letter that she wrote to me this week, meetings of the JSCI are in fact held out of the eye of the public.
Given the fact that the Minister made these statements in public and that they were widely covered, I really do believe that it is appropriate that the urgent question be allowed and that the Minister must publicly account for those statements that he made in public. He was casting aspersions on various political leaders and on an office bearer, who is contingent on this Parliament, and for her removal, if necessary.
The SPEAKER: Hon Steenhuisen, I will follow up on that issue. I have to look at all the correspondence, because, as you will remember, at a certain point last week I was at the SADC Parliamentary Forum on behalf of this Parliament. Therefore, I will have to inform myself more fully regarding the issues you are now raising. The next item on the Order Paper is questions addressed to Ministers in the Social Services cluster.
QUESTIONS - The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
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THE SPEAKER
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY
SOCIAL SERVICES
Cluster 2
Question 68:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon Speaker, in the absence of the hon Minister of Basic Education, may I respond to the question? Ms Mabika’s question has three elements to it and four subsections. With regard to these elements, the first is in relation to no-fee schools. In terms of policy, we have the Quintile 1, 2 and 3 schools that are no-fee schools, and Quintiles 4 and 5 are fee-paying schools.
The second is in relation to the Quality Improvement, Development, Support and Upliftment Programme, QIDS UP. These are largely initiatives that are undertaken where there are schools located in poverty-stricken areas and, indeed, where interventions have to be made. So, for example, today we were able to replace a “plankie” school in Ravensmead by building a R52 million state-of-the-art school in the poorest, economically depressed community. That would broadly fall under QIDS UP and also under the Accelerated Schools Infrastructure Development Initiative, Asidi, to replace mud schools and unsafe schools.
The third element is a distinction between section 20 and section 21 schools. Section 20 schools are schools that are governed through the provincial departments of education where they do not have the capacity to manage the resources, the procurement of textbooks and other services. Section 21 schools are schools where, on application by the school, the MEC for education gives the school the authority to procure such items.
With regard to the question itself, question (a), the first school is indeed a section 20 school, which means the KwaZulu-Natal department of education had the responsibility of providing stationary and, indeed, has done so.
With regard to the second school, Makabongwe Primary School, that is a section 21 school and it would procure its stationary through the principal. Indeed, it has done so.
With regard to the second section, that is (b), for the schools that purchase through the department, the KwaZulu-Natal department of education monitors the process through weekly reports. These are presented with proof of delivery notes as evidence of the actual delivery to the school.
Schools with function (c), section 21 schools, are also monitored through the submission of signed delivery notes, which each school has to submit in December of each year. So, at the end of the year, the school that has the authority to purchase and procure stationary and textbooks would provide proof of delivery to the Department of Education that the items have indeed been delivered. So, that is with regard to the monitoring mechanism.
With regard to the third part of the question, the answer is that through the monitoring mechanism explained above, the KwaZulu-Natal department of education ensured that these schools received their stationery.
With regard to the fourth part of the question, currently, the KwaZulu-Natal department of education cannot take steps against anyone, as there is no evidence of neglect of duties. Should any evidence be put to the department with regard to any form of neglect in the provision of stationary or textbooks or any other form of resources that the school should obtain through legislation or other means, it would take the appropriate steps. I thank you.
Mks M R MOUTUOA
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
IsiXhosa:
Mks M R MOUTUOA:... ndiyabulela Sekela Mphathiswa wezeMfundo, ingcaciso ...
Mr N M KHUBISA: I rise on a point of order, Deputy Speaker.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! What has happened? The hon member who asked the question must ask the follow-up question.
Mr N M KUBISA: Yes, it should be hon Mabika.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, you are right, hon Khubisa. I agree.
Prof N M MABIKA: Deputy Speaker, I think it is proper for me to ask the Deputy Minister of Basic Education to ensure that they warn these MECs from the provinces to refrain from saying things that they fail to do. The reason I say this is that I was hoping and expecting the Deputy Minister to indicate that Makabongwe Primary School, as mentioned, had just received its allocation in February. Yes, it is true that Makabongwe is a section C school with function C, but it did not receive its allocation timely. Learners did not have stationery until February this year. That is why I had to ask this question. When I visited the school, the principal was frustrated and did not know what to do because the officials were also failing to give answers.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, your preamble was too long. Your time has unfortunately expired.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon Deputy Speaker, I think I am able to assist the hon member. From time to time, the provincial departments - not regularly, but infrequently - fail to provide the norms and standards or the allocation that is due to a school that has the function to procure on its own. When it comes to our attention as a national department, we immediately make the appropriate intervention to ensure that it is directed to the schools. If the schools have had such an unpleasant experience, we do apologise on behalf of the KwaZulu-Natal department of education. We certainly invite all members to draw our attention to this lack of efficiency in any school, in any province. We thank you.
Mr A M MPONTSHANE
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Deputy Minister, what is happening - or not happening - at these schools at Ndlondweni points to the challenges of concurrent powers between the provincial and national spheres of government - challenges which, at times, if not all the time, diminish the principle of accountability. We argue that one of the weakest points at all levels of the system is the lack of accountability. Now, hon Deputy Minister, the question is: What ways or plans do you have to meet these challenges that occur as a result of the concurrent powers at these different levels?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon Deputy Speaker, this is a very important constitutional matter. If my memory serves me correctly, in fact, it is your party that sought to have stronger provincial powers, rather than central power. We are committed to a unitary state and in our Constitution, we have concurrent competencies.
The responsibility of the delivery of textbooks, stationery, services and the running of the school, in terms of our Constitution, falls within the ambit of province. However, given the fact that we have an overall responsibility in relation to education, whenever it comes to our attention that there are inefficiencies in the system, we then intervene. Two examples could provide clarification.
In the Eastern Cape, there was the nondelivery of books and stationery, of food that had to be provided and of personnel. An intervention was made by the national department in terms of section 100(1)(b). Similarly, when there was failure in terms of executive and administrative functions in Limpopo, an intervention was made.
We do not simply take that step but we allow provinces to improve their efficiency. Where they are unable to do so and where the interests of learners are prejudiced, then we would not hesitate to take the appropriate steps. However, many things have occurred that certainly serve the interests of learners all over the country. So, for example, what we are embarking on is the replacement of mud schools in the Eastern Cape and unsafe schools in all parts of the country. Thus far we have delivered, through the resources of the national fiscus, on behalf of the provinces, more than 82 state-of-the-art schools in the Eastern Cape and more than 10 schools in the Western Cape - and they are going to be the recipients of another 15 schools.
Now, we really face a challenge. We cannot say it is only a provincial responsibility. As the national department, in the best interests of our learners, we certainly do make interventions that enhance the quality of education. I thank you.
Ms N V NQWENISO
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
Ms N V NQWENISO: Deputy Minister, the ANC MP, hon Jackson Mthembu, stood in this House to proudly defend the awarding of a questionable tender amounting to R632 million for the construction of toilets in the Eastern Cape to a ghost company, allegedly owned by the members of this House. We have since learned that Mnxe High School in the Eastern Cape has open toilets and that the toilets at Bathandwa Ndondo High School have no doors, subjecting learners to degrading and humiliating conditions. Gwabe Senior Primary School and Nowonga Junior Secondary School are mud schools that are falling apart.
We call on the Minister to commit to a date on which these particular schools in the Eastern Cape will have decent toilets and structures and the date by which pit toilets will have been eradicated in all schools in the country. Furthermore, who was awarded the contract to build these toilets in Mnxe and Bathandwa Ndondo and what are you going to do about them? [Time expired.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon Deputy Speaker, this is not a follow-up question. However, given its importance and given the fact that a school without water or sanitation is indeed a violation of the rights of a learner, it is important to reflect on this matter here.
In the Eastern Cape, for example, there are more than 200 schools that have to be replaced because they are either mud schools or inappropriate structures. As we speak right now, 82 schools have been replaced by state-of-the-art schools with laboratories, libraries, proper sanitation, electricity and water. As I am speaking right now, there are 108 schools under construction in the Eastern Cape to deal with those particular matters. [Applause.]
I think one must recognise that it is a huge step forward and, indeed, we are delivering more than a school a week, if my calculation is correct. I think the hon member should know that it might well be that the school she is referring to is among the Asidi schools that have been identified for replacement. I will, however, invite her to provide me with the details so that I can look at the matter urgently and respond appropriately. I thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
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IsiZulu:
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Usuthatha isikhala sikaGcwabaza manje?
English:
Ms M R MORUTUOA: Deputy Speaker, this is the only microphone that we are using.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You must explain, otherwise I see the hon Gcwabaza here but I do not see him there. [Interjections.]
Ms M R MORUTUOA: Deputy Minister, your response is informative indeed, and it is well appreciated.
IsiXhosa:
Siyaqhuba nyani. Nanku nje umbuzwana ...
English:
... since QIDS UP was engineered for quality improvement, development, support and upliftment of the poorest of the poor schools, especial the rural and farms schools, including those public schools that are in this Ndlondweni Reserve area mentioned by hon Mabika, what plans does her department have in place to attract and retain qualified educators who can promote quality education in these poor schools, especially in critical and scarce subjects, such as mathematics, science and technology? I thank you. [Time expired.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: The hon member raises a very important area. We have to look at it and indeed we have looked at it very critically. This is the area of the retention of skills in scarce skills subjects such as mathematics, science and technology. To that end, the department had adopted norms, which allowed provinces to provide incentives or rewards to those educators who teach these scarce skills subjects, as well as in hard-to-teach areas.
So, you might have some township schools that are overcrowded and difficult to manage. However, most provinces have also looked very closely at the issues of ruralness. And if we look at the country, more than 60% of our country is rural. Other than Gauteng, all nine provinces are more than 65% rural. Basically, one has to determine how to define rurality as such. However, as we speak, seven of the nine provinces do in fact provide incentives.
However, we have discovered that the incentive differs from province to province. So, what Limpopo provides as an incentive and what KwaZulu-Natal provides as an incentive are different. The heads of department of the nine provinces, with the acting director-general, have reflected on this matter and will develop a common, uniform norm to deal with the issues of rurality.
The incentives with regard to mathematics, science and technology still prevail and educators are entitled to that. Certainly, we endorse the fact that we must do everything possible to retain the scarce skills of qualified and competent educators in our deep rural areas, especially in KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo and the Eastern Cape. I thank you.
QUESTION 50
QUESTION 68 - The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
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Question 50:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Deputy Speaker, I want to thank the hon member for the question. This question relates to the re-engineering of primary health care. Since April 2013 to date, more than 428 000 learners have been screened for health-related barriers to learning. Presently there are over 2 000 ward-based primary health care outreach teams. Of these, more than 1 600 are reporting on the district health information system. The wardbased outreach teams have registered up to 80% of households in their areas. During the registration, they registered the gender distribution, age distribution and specific health and welfare-related matters pertaining to households. This information allows the clinic to which the outreach team is linked to plan appropriate services for that community.
Special attention is given to providing advice to households about antenatal care, postnatal care, care of children and chronic conditions in teenagers. Antenatal visits before 20 weeks is a good indicator against which to measure whether this component of our primary health care re-engineering is working and whether it is achieving the desired results. Since the importance of visiting the clinic early in pregnancy has been part of the antenatal processes, it facilitates better outcomes of the pregnancy.
The Health Systems Trust, in their report of 2011-12, indicates that the rate of antenatal visits before 20 weeks in 2011-12 was 40%, which is an improvement from the previous year, when it was about 37%. In the following reporting year, it was indicated to be at 44%. We would like to have it much higher than this, at least close to 80%, but there is an improvement.
As a way of intervention, district health specialist teams have been appointed to improve clinical governance. This refers to the quality of clinical care which in turn result in good health outcomes. The process of recruiting district specialists is ongoing. The total number appointed currently is 209 and this means that 60% of the posts for district clinical specialists have been filled.
We currently have 460 school health nurses, which we would also want to increase. The process of contracting private sector doctors - that is, general practitioners - to provide services to clients in public clinics is currently confined to only 10 National Health Insurance, NHI, pilot districts. Except in the Oliver Tambo district, we have managed to sign up most of the private sector general practitioners in the pilot districts where they are available. These doctors, over and above the work they do in their rooms, also provide services in the clinics.
The delay in the O R Tambo district is mainly due to instability in the management of the district. We, as the national department, need to liaise with district managers to place doctors in clinics where they are most needed. At the beginning of 2013, when we started, the uptake was slow, but now it has improved from the low end - which at one stage was only 20 - to the level where we are. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please wrap up, hon member.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker.
Mr I MOSALA
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH
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Mr I MOSALA: Deputy Speaker, I want to thank the Deputy Minister for a comprehensive response to the question. The follow-up question is as follows: On the basis of your response, is it therefore your contention and that of the department that people in the communities, through wardbased primary health care, would in the long run exercise power over their lives? Secondly, as a country we are gravitating to a scenario where between 100 and 150 families are confined to a ward or geographic area. Will the health system then be able to provide health workers, nurses and doctors in order to emphasise health promotion and the prevention of illness? Thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Deputy Speaker and the hon member, indeed, the idea of ward-based primary health outreach teams is in a way modelled on successful experiences in various parts of the world - top among those will be Cuba. The focus here is making sure that we train our community health workers. Led by professional health workers, the majority being the professional nurses, these teams would map up the ward. This is very close to what the Deputy President was talking about earlier, in terms of the war on poverty.
So, the idea is to map out a ward and to have a team - trained community health workers, led by a professional health worker - that at any given time, if asked for information about household number this or that in a particular street, will be able to give the number of people in that household, which includes grannies, children, those with TB, the girl who is pregnant. This information would be contained in the clinic’s records. This is where we are going in order to prevent illness, rather than focusing on treatment. So, that is where we are going to make sure that we have healthy households. Thank you, Deputy Speaker.
Dr W G JAMES
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH
Dr W G JAMES: Deputy Minister, the National Health Insurance, which is the backbone of primary health care, looks dead in the water. Private sites are without much needed equipment and medicines. Not enough private GPs are willing to contract with the state and we still do not know how government will finance it. So, why don’t you just tell it like it is. The NHI, as the government’s offer to health care for the poor, is neither taking off nor succeeding, but failing. When will the Minister of Health start tackling poor management, which is the real problem in health care? Due to poor management at the many dysfunctional clinics, hospitals get flooded with patients.
My colleague, Dr Heinrich Volmink, and I, had firsthand experience of how the consequences of failing clinics can add to problems at district and national general hospitals. We visited every province and we saw how things worked. We went to Groote Schuur Hospital, Inkosi Albert Luthuli Central Hospital in KwaZulu-Natal, Kimberley Hospital in the Northern Cape, Livingstone Hospital in the Eastern Cape, Klerksdorp Hospital in the North West, Tembisa and Chris Hani Baragwanath Hospitals in Gauteng, Polokwane Hospital in Limpopo, Rob Ferreira Hospital in Mpumalanga and the Free State … [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, your time has expired.
Dr W G JAMES: We saw the catastrophe in health care that is the result of the failing primary health care system. I thank you. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, your time has expired.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Deputy Speaker, unfortunately hon James is deliberately conflating matters. We are here dealing with the re-engineering of primary health. Of course, primary health is the cornerstone of improving the quality of life and the provision of health services in our country. Now, he is conflating that with the pilot for the National Health Insurance. [Interjections.] How can you come to this honourable House and say that the NHI has failed when we are still in the pilot stage? How can you say that when we are still piloting in order to learn and make sure that when we begin to roll it out, we indeed have experience. Do you want to kill a baby that is still in the womb? [Interjections.] The baby is not born yet; it is still growing in the mother’s womb, but you already say it is useless. I mean, that is what piloting means! We are not even at the stage where we are saying we have reached our target. We are still talking about only 10 districts in the country, out of 52 districts. For the hon member to come and say to this House ... [Interjections.]
Let me assure this House that we are indeed aware that there are challenges. It is as if the hon member has just descended into this House from Mars. [Interjections.] He does not know the history of where we come from. We come from a dispensation where the majority of the people we are addressing today, in terms of providing services, never even accessed those services. But at least today they can get a visit by a professional nurse in their home. [Applause.] Their children can now be trained to become community health workers and get a stipend, just as the Deputy President mentioned earlier. Beyond that, they can also be upscaled to get a skill. So, hon members, we are addressing the issues.
The reason that there are medicine shortages sometimes is that there is a demand and sometimes the planning is not up to scratch in terms of the demand. So, all those matters are being addressed. General practitioners, as I have mentioned, are starting to come in their numbers to be contracted. Every day we get calls from a number of GPs who want to join the districts. So, indeed, we are on course and we are going to implement this. [Time expired.] Thank you, Deputy Speaker.
Ms S J NKOMO
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH
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Ms S J NKOMO: Deputy Speaker and Deputy Minister, I would like to find out a few things about this outstanding programme. Firstly, what is the health care worker-client ratio, noting the numbers the Deputy Minister spoke about? It seems as if we still need to train more because the ratio is skewed.
Secondly, how involved are the parents, and what role do they play in the oversight of these scanning processes? I ask this because parent education is also important. Maybe we should also look at what aspects of parent education need to be put in place because parents are actually the ones who need to continue with a lot of these programmes. If the scanning process is noted to have diagnosed a certain condition, how is the taking over of the status of that condition going to be done in order to ensure that that patient or client is sent to the relevant place? Thank you. [Time expired.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Deputy Speaker and hon member, perhaps let me just explain to the hon member that the number of ward-based health care outreach teams that I mentioned are not as yet covering all the wards in the country. I mentioned just over 2 000. We are still short of another 2 000 teams because, all in all, we have just over 4 000 wards in the country. So, we are still recruiting and training more teams so that, at the end of the day, all the wards in the country are covered by health outreach teams. So, speaking of a ratio, basically this is a team of community health workers, led by a professional health worker. The size of each team is dependent on the population of the particular ward. So, the ratio will depend on the population of the ward. That is how it works.
Regarding oversight by parents, the advantage of outreach programmes targeting households is that you are targeting the entire family. So, when dealing with the household, you are dealing with the entire family. The parents, children and everyone else are on board and therefore you are not managing the problems affecting the children from those affecting their parents in isolation. It is something really comprehensive in terms of family. Once a particular problem has been identified, that person is then referred accordingly. Usually it will be to the nearest clinic, because these teams are linked to the clinics in the area. And, of course, if it is a more complex problem, then it will be upscaled either to the specialist teams that I referred to in the local area or else to a higher health care provision centre. Thank you, Deputy Speaker.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Msibi, from the NFP, do you have a question?
Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Deputy Speaker ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you are definitely not the hon Msibi, but it is fine. Go ahead, sir. [Laughter.]
Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Deputy Speaker, my question to the Deputy Minister of Health is this: According to the latest report on provinces, some of the provinces have underspent. I would like the Deputy Minister to tell us what action is going to be taken against those provinces that are not performing? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HEALTH: Deputy Speaker, the question is not necessarily a follow-up question, but I will deal with it nevertheless. We do have regular meetings with our counterparts in the provinces. In fact, as the National Health Council, we were meant to meet tomorrow, but because of the tragedy that befell this House we have postponed that meeting. However, we do meet on a regular basis to evaluate our performance in all the provinces. Our approach is to find the problem. For instance, with regard to infrastructure, some of the provinces have not been performing in terms of infrastructure roll-out and the rehabilitation programme. We therefore provide assistance in instances where there may be a shortage of the necessary skills. We try to work with those provinces, making sure that we address whatever shortcomings have led to the underspending. We work in a collaborative manner with all the provinces. Thank you, Deputy Speaker.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Members, the time allocated for questions has expired. Outstanding replies received will be printed in Hansard. We now come to notices of motion. [Interjections.]
Mr M Q NDLOZI
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Deputy Speaker, there is supposed to be four supplementary questions. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, four supplementary questions are allowed.
Mr M Q NDLOZI: Yes, so there is still one left.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, check your counting, sir.
Mr M Q NDLOZI: I have checked carefully and I am guaranteeing you that four people must follow, and I am the fourth one.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, you are not. You assumed you were the fourth one, hon member, but you are not. We have done four. Your mathematics is going haywire now. [Interjections.]
Mr M WATERS: Deputy Speaker, may I address you on a point of order?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, go ahead, hon member.
Mr M WATERS: Deputy Speaker, today we had oral questions for the Social Services cluster. If you look at the Minister’s benches you will see that the vast majority of Ministers for the Social Services cluster are not here. In fact, if you go down the Question Paper, the first time a Minister would have had the opportunity to answer a question would have been the hon Minister of Higher Education and Training and that is Question 9. So, the first eight questions would not have been answered by a member of the executive. We know that section 91 of the Constitution stipulates that the Cabinet consists of the President, the Deputy President and Ministers - not Deputy Ministers. This engagement is for us as ordinary members from both sides of the House to hold the executive to account. So, I implore you, if you could please take up the matter with the Speaker of the NA and write to the Deputy President, who is in charge of government business, to insist that it is very important that Ministers should come here to answer questions and to be held accountable. Thank you.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon member. What are you rising on, Deputy Minister?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Just as a response, hon Deputy Speaker, the Constitution is very clear that Ministers and Deputy Ministers make up the executive that is appointed by the President. So, it is a constitutional description of the executive that a Deputy Minister ... [Interjections.] You will have your opportunity. To suggest that a Deputy Minister is not a member of the executive would be incorrect.
Secondly, the Rules provide that in the absence of a Minister, the Deputy Minister of that particular portfolio, or a Minister from his or her peers, could respond to the question on behalf of the Minister that is absent. I just want to bring it to the attention of this House that the reason that the Minister of Basic Education is not here today is the compelling circumstances arising from the untimely passing away of Minister Collins Chabane. She has been assigned duties, together with her colleagues, to undertake the responsibility for both the memorial service and the funeral. Thank you very much.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, I read out ... [Interjections.]
Mr M WATERS: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Before we enter into a debate, may I just point out the following. It was explicitly read out here that the Minister was not available and that we had been informed that the Deputy Minister would respond. Otherwise it would have required of us to specify the reasons why Ministers were not here to take questions obviously directed at them. So, my assumption is that there was an understanding and that is why we went ahead. We do take your point that you would like to see the Ministers here. When Ministers are here, they do indeed take questions. Can we take a different view?
Mr M WATERS: Deputy Speaker, it is not about whether we would like Ministers to be here; they should be here. If you look at the Social Services cluster, for example, the next time this cluster will be up for oral questions is in August - which is in another five months. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes.
Mr M WATERS: That shows you that if a Minister misses his or her oral questioning session, they are not being held accountable for several months. Secondly, if I may read out section 91 of the Constitution: “The Cabinet consists of the President as head of the Cabinet, a Deputy President and Ministers.” It does not include Deputy Ministers. [Interjections.] You are not members of the Cabinet. Our job is to hold the executive to account. Thank you. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon member, proceed.
Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Deputy Speaker, we understand that the Deputy Ministers may be suffering from some sense of esteem that they are not Ministers. But we would really prefer to hear from Ministers. In addition to that, by the way, Rule 109(3) says, and I quote:
If a Minister is absent on a day when questions relating to the relevant cluster are to be answered and those questions are not answered by another Cabinet Minister or the Deputy Minister concerned, the Speaker may, if requested to do so by members...
So, only when Ministers are not here, Deputy Ministers may answer. That is why we prefer them; otherwise this Rule would not have made a distinction between a Minister and a Deputy Minister. It would just have said “Cabinet members”, if we did not distinguish between a Deputy and a Minister. You are the Deputy - maybe you will be a Minister next time. We want the Minister! [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Ndlozi!
Mr M Q NDLOZI: Deputy! [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Ndlozi, take your seat. You have made your point. Hon members, the House accepted the proposal for the two Deputy Ministers who responded to do so. I understood that to be the attitude of this House. Question time is over anyway. Can we now move on to notices of motion?
NOTICES OF MOTION
QUESTIONS
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NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr N J J VAN R KOORNHOF: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates which mode of the gambling industry is best for investor confidence and job creation in South Africa.
Mr T C R WALTERS
Mr N J J VAN R KOORNHOF
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Mr R T C WALTERS: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the proposed land caps by the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform and its impact on the agricultural sector, land reform, job creation and foreign investment.
Mr D J MAYNIER
Mr R T C WALTERS
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Mr D J MAYNIER: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House–
- notes that Sunday, 22 March 2015, marks the two-year anniversary of the battle of Bangui,
- remembers the tragic deaths of 15 SA National Defence Force soldiers, who died as a result of the battle of Bangui;
- further notes the conspiracy of silence surrounding the tragic deaths of the 15 SA National Defence Force soldiers who died as a result of the battle of Bangui;
- therefore resolves to establish an ad hoc committee to enquire into the circumstances surrounding the employment of the SA National Defence Force in the Central African Republic in 2012-13; to propose measures that could prevent similar incidents from occurring in future employments; to consist of 11 members, as follows: ANC six, DA three, EFF one and other parties one; to exercise powers in terms of Rule 138 as it may deem necessary for the performance of its task; and to report to the National Assembly by 26 June 2015.
Mr K P SITHOLE
Mr D J MAYNIER
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Mr K P SITHOLE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House debates the disparities that exist regarding sport in school and how there are little or no facilities or opportunities available for children in schools in townships and rural areas.
Mr A J WILLIAMS
Mr K P SITHOLE
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Mr A J WILLIAMS: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates the functionality of various boards of state entities, their remuneration structure and whether we need to change the policy with regard to their roles.
Ms H O MAXON
Mr A J WILLIAMS
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Ms H O MAXON: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:
That the House debates the introduction of measures and interventions, including monitoring mechanisms, to ensure that persons with disabilities are not the second-class citizens they are today and that they have equal access to education, employment and basic services.
Mr M HLENGWA
Ms H O MAXON
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Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House debates the need to develop an operational framework for the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, that would ensure that funds of this scheme services the needs of its intended recipients, who are poor and needy South Africans from previously and presently disadvantaged communities.
Mr I M OLLIS
Mr M HLENGWA
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Mr I M OLLIS: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the ongoing mismanagement, fraud and financial irregularities at the Department of Labour and its entities and the inaction of the Minister of Labour in this regard.
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE
Mr I M OLLIS
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Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House debates the importance of ensuring that this Parliament lives up to our constitutional requirements and principles of openness, transparency and accountability at all times.
Ms N P SONTI
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE
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Ms N P SONTI: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:
That the House debates the need to build more universities in every province in order to absorb all school-leaving learners.
Ms J STEENKAMP
Ms N P SONTI
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Ms J STEENKAMP: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the state of landfill sites in South Africa, a ban on burning waste, and the impact it has on human and environmental health.
Ms V KETABAHLE
Ms J STEENKAMP
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Ms V KETABAHLE: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:
That the House debates outlawing bank repossessions of houses whose owners have paid more than 50% of the bond amount.
Mr S MOKGALAPA
Ms V KETABAHLE
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Mr S MOKGALAPA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the accreditation credentials of our diplomatic corps and its impact on South Africa’s image abroad and comes up with solutions.
Mr D J STUBBE
Mr S MOKGALAPA
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Mr D J STUBBE: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the clustering of municipalities as envisaged by the Municipal Demarcation Board in the Northern Cape in the light of the vast distances between towns and the dreadful state of the financial situation of these municipalities.
Mr X MABASA
Mr D J STUBBE
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Xitsonga:
Nkul X MABASA: Muchaviseki Xandla xa Xipikara, eka ntshamo wa Yindlu wa siku leri nga ta landzela ndzi ta susumeta hi ku yimela vandla ra ANC:
Leswaku Yindlu yi njhekanjhekisana hi ku hunguta ntshikelelo ni ku olivisa kharensi ya matiko lama ma ha hluvukaka ku suka eka nkucetelo wo ka wu nga ri kahle wa matiko lamahluvukeke leswi swi lavaka ku yisa ehansi ku kula ka ikhonomi, ku tumbuluxiwa ka mitirho na ajenda ya nhluvuko ya matiko lama ma ha hluvukaka.
Ms T E KENYE
Mr X MABASA
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Ms T E KENYE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates embracing and promoting Agenda 2063 to reawaken a passion for Pan-Africanism and the sense of unity, self-reliance, integration and solidarity that were highlights of the triumphs of the 20th century.
Ms S P KOPANE
Ms T E KENYE
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Ms S P KOPANE: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates compliance with the implementation of the National Drug Master Plan by various government departments, entities and stakeholders if we are serious about the fight against substance abuse in our country.
Ms N V NQWENISO
Ms S P KOPANE
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Ms N V NQWENISO: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:
That the House debates enforcing strict regulations on the private security industry and the banning of all foreign ownership of private security companies in South Africa.
Prof N M KHUBISA
Ms N V NQWENISO
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Prof N M KHUBISA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the NFP:
That the House deliberates on the issue of the role and impact of the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, the way it is administered, student dissatisfaction and disadvantages and how protests are handled in institutions of higher learning.
Ms S MCHUNU
Prof N M KHUBISA
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Ms S MCHUNU: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates increasing honours, masters and doctorate graduate output rates of students from previously disadvantaged communities in order to even the balance between local and international students enrolled in South African universities.
Mr N L S KWANKWA
Ms S MCHUNU
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IsiXhosa:
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Sekela Somlomo, ndenza isaziso sokuba, xa le Ndlu ihlala kwakhona, ndiza kwenza isiphakamiso:
Sokuba le Ndlu-
ishukuxe umba wokuqeshwa kwabantu ngobulungu bombutho kumaphondo asemaphandleni afana neliyaa laseMpuma Koloni kwiinkqubo ezifana neyemiSebenzi yoLuntu eyaNdisiweyo.
Ms A STEYN
Mr N L S KWANKWA
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Ms A STEYN: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the increased rate of farm attacks and farm murders and the influence thereof on the agricultural sector.
Mr G G HILL-LEWIS
Mr N L S KWANKWA
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Mr G G HILL-LEWIS: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the decision by ANC members of the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry to block a much-needed inquiry into allegations of corruption at the Companies Tribunal, as well as the true oversight function of parliamentary committees and how to avoid committees being co-opted by the executive into shielding Ministers and government entities from any real scrutiny.
Mr C D MATSEPE
Mr G G HILL-LEWIS
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Mr C D MATSEPE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the unroadworthiness of some of the ambulances in Limpopo, which poses a risk to the lives of the sick being transported and to other users of the road.
Dr M J FIGG
Mr C D MATSEPE
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Dr M J FIGG: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the unacceptably high level of debt of the country and measures to be taken to reduce this debt.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, I am afraid we have to disappoint the hon Oliphant. We still have to move on to motions without notice, so you cannot go home, sir!
MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
NOTICES OF MOTION
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CONDITIONAL BAN ON ABALONE FISHING BUT NOT ON DIVING
(Draft Resolution)
Dr M J CARDO: Hon Deputy Speaker, on behalf of the DA, I hereby move without notice:
That the House–
- notes the conditional lifting of the ban on abalone fishing;
- also notes that despite the conditional lifting of the ban on abalone fishing, a ban on diving is still in effect in five designated areas, including the area between Gansbaai and Quoin Point;
- further notes that this ban on diving has had punitive effects on recreational divers and has done little to stop abalone poachers in their tracks; and
- calls on the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries to consider the socioeconomic impacts of this diving ban with a view to rescinding it.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If there are no objections, I put the motion.
An HON MEMBER: The ANC objects.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: In the light of the objection, the motion falls away.
Mr M U KALAKO
The DEPUTY SPEAKER
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PROTEAS’ PERFORMANCE IN WORLD CUP
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M U KALAKO: Deputy Speaker, on behalf of the ANC, I move without notice:
That the House–
- notes with great excitement South Africa’s progress to the semi-final of the Cricket World Cup after beating Sri Lanka at the Sydney Cricket Ground on Wednesday, 18 March 2015;
- further notes that this was the first win ever by the Proteas at the knockout stages of the World Cup;
- recalls that in the same match J P Duminy bowled the first-ever hat trick by a South African at the World Cup;
- further recalls that the Proteas dismissed Sri Lanka for a mere 133 runs, which is the third-lowest total by Sri Lanka at the World Cup; and
- congratulates the Proteas on this great victory and wishes them luck as they progress to the semi-finals.
[Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If there are no objections, I put the motion.
An HON MEMBER: We object on the grounds that it is premature; we must congratulate them when they take the Cup. Thank you. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: In light of the objection, the motion falls away. [Interjections.] Hon members, order! Order!
Mr M HLENGWA
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER
NATIONAL LIBRARY WEEK
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M HLENGWA: Deputy Speaker on behalf of the IFP I hereby move without notice:
That the House–
- recognises that National Library Week is being observed in the week 14 to 21 March 2015, with the theme “Connect at your library”;
- acknowledges that libraries are fast emerging as technologically enabling environments that provide individuals with opportunities to connect to the Internet and use facilities to which they would not otherwise have access;
- further acknowledges that one of the many important focuses of this week is the encouragement of reading and the instilling of a culture of reading so that we create an informed nation that promotes the importance of libraries;
- notes that the theme “Connect at you library” resonates with the belief that libraries connect people with each other, to knowledge and information, to printed and electronic resources, to technology and to professional support; and
- applauds the Library and Information Association of SA, which has been working hard at centralising library and information services.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Hlengwa, you have done me a great injustice. That is a bad way of doing things. I was present at the launch of National Library Week. However, because you did not circulate that motion, it can unfortunately not be accepted. It must still follow the Rules.
Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Deputy Speaker, according to our records, these motions were circulated yesterday. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hon member, it is our records that matter most. [Laughter.] I am afraid, hon Mpontshane, that it is our records that matter most - unless you can prove otherwise. [Interjections.]
Mr M Q NDLOZI: No, no, Deputy Speaker, your records were journeying here yesterday. [Interjections.] They cannot be reliable either.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Electronic...
Mr M Q NDLOZI: It is debatable whether that record is there because the whole Parliament was waiting for 10 minutes for your records.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Our records show that it was not circulated. Sorry, no excuses. [Interjections.] Order! Continue, hon member.
Ms T GQADA
The DEPUTY SPEAKER
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IMPROVEMENT TO ELECTRICITY INFRASTRUCTURE IN CAPE TOWN
(Draft Resolution)
Ms T GQADA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby move without notice on behalf of the DA:
That the House-
- notes the huge improvement to the electricity infrastructure taking place in large parts of the City of Cape Town;
- also notes that these upgrades are being rolled out across the metro and will serve to provide additional capacity to the distribution network and ensure that the system is more reliable as the city experiences encouraging growth;
- further notes that the five capital projects that are currently being implemented will directly benefit the people of Gugulethu, Maitland, Kensington, Stikland, Brackenfell, Kuilsriver and Durbanville when work is completed before the end of this financial year;
- acknowledges that the current situation at Eskom demonstrates the consequences poor asset management can have on an electricity network;
- also acknowledges that early planning, continuous maintenance and upgrades ensure that sufficient capacity to meet demand is achieved;
- further acknowledges the importance of a reliable energy supply to grow the city’s economy optimally;
- congratulates the City of Cape Town on their forward thinking, progressive approach and hard work on maintaining and upgrading the city’s electricity infrastructure.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If there are no objections, I put the motion.
An HON MEMBER: The ANC objects. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: In light of the objection, the motion falls away.
Mr K Z MORAPELA
Ms T GQADA
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KHAYELITSHA FACES FRESH VIGILANTE PROBLEMS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr K Z MORAPELA: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House—
- notes that vigilante killings are still taking place in some parts of Khayelitsha in the Western Cape province;
- notes that this happens mainly because the community does not trust the police;
- notes that there is no excuse for such actions but also that this is a reflection of the failure on the part of the ANC and the DA to provide peace and security to the people of South Africa;
- notes that the Khayelitsha Commission of Inquiry that was established to look into the matter detected a number of policing inefficiencies in this township;
- further notes that vigilantism is also continuing in areas like Nkanini and Taiwan settlements in the Western Cape province;
- notes that the equal treatment of communities in South Africa is a right that must be enjoyed by all;
- notes that the state has a constitutional obligation to protect its citizens;
- calls on the Minister of Police to focus on crime prevention and to stop being obsessed with suspending law enforcement officers.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! That motion will not be placed before the House. Apparently it was not circulated, sir.
Mr M Q NDLOZI: Deputy Speaker, we want to put it on record that we have circulated this motion. I did say that we should not contest this thing of technology because your office is well known not to be reliable.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I did not speak about technology, I spoke about circulation...
Mr M Q NDLOZI: Records?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, records.
Mr M Q NDLOZI: We circulated on e-mail.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, no, hon member, you are going to have to talk to the Table in front of me to check that. Right now the report I have is that the motion was not circulated and will not be moved. Yes, hon member at the back, proceed.
Ms C N MAJEKE
Mr K Z MORAPELA
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FAREWEL TO PROFESSOR ALEX NGANWA-BAGUMAH
(Draft Resolution)
Ms C N MAJEKE: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House—
- notes that the director of Walter Sisulu University’s School of Medicine, Professor Alex Nganwa-Bagumah, is bidding farewell after 30 years of tireless service;
- further notes that Professor Nganwa-Bagumah was initially based in Lesotho after having qualified as a specialist surgeon and subspecialist in urology in Edinburgh, Scotland;
- acknowledges that he had a basic degree from Uganda’s Makerere University before he was recruited to run the then University of Transkei Medical School;
- recognises his efforts in producing more than 2 000 medical doctors and more than 120 specialists, despite having difficulties such as no buildings, no syllabus, and no laboratories when he arrived and that he had to start everything from scratch; and
- congratulates him for his monumental achievements and selfless service to the Walter Sisulu University, the people of South Africa and the profession of medicine.
Agreed to.
Mr M U KALAKO
Ms C N MAJEKE
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GET WELL WISHES FOR PRESIDENT OF ZAMBIA
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M U KALAKO: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House—
- notes that Zambian president Edgar Lungu collapsed while attending the commemoration of International Women’s Day at the National Heroes Stadium in Lusaka, on Sunday, 8 March 2015;
- further notes that he was admitted to a Zambian hospital the same day and discharged on Monday, 9 March 2015;
- acknowledges that President Edgar Lungu was later admitted to the Milpark Hospital in Johannesburg for possible surgery for a blocked windpipe; and
- wishes President Lungu a speedy recovery so that he can discharge his responsibilities making a positive contribution to expediting economic growth and prosperity in his country, in the Southern African Development Community, SADC, and in Africa.
Agreed to.
Mr M MABIKA
Mr M U KALAKO
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PROTEAS VICTORY OVER SRI LANKA
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M MABIKA: Deputy Speaker, I hope this one will not be objected to. I move without notice:
That the House—
- notes that the SA national cricket team, the Proteas, played a deciding quarter-final match against the national cricket team of Sri Lanka in the International Cricket Council, ICC, World Cup;
- further notes that the Proteas claimed a convincing victory by restricting Sri Lanka to 133 all out in the 37th over and proceeded to hit the winning runs of 134 in the 18th over;
- acknowledges that Ibrahim Tahir of the Proteas was honoured as the man of the match;
- congratulates the Proteas on their convincing victory; and
- further congratulates Ibrahim Tahir for being the man of the match.
Agreed to.
Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Deputy Speaker, it is so that we see motions that look alike. That motion was just read earlier on. I do not know if the ANC and the NFP are now sharing information because the ANC did not rise to indicate that that motion had been read. It must fall away because it is a repetition.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, are you objecting to the motion?
Prof N M KHUBISA: Are you objecting?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Ndlozi, are you objecting? [Interjections.] No, he is not.
Mr N SINGH: Hon Deputy Speaker, this is not an objection but the name of the person mentioned in the motion is Imran Tahir, not “Ibrahim Tahir”.
Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM
Mr M S MABIKA
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RAPIST’S CONVICTION APPLAUDED
(Draft Resolution)
Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Deputy Speaker, on behalf of the NFP I move without notice:
That the House–
- notes that on Monday, 16 March 2015, a man was sentenced to 20 years in prison by Greytown Regional Court for raping his aunt;
- further notes that the convicted man is 38 years old and his victim is 70 years old; and
- acknowledges that the rape took place at the home of the victim at Emalomeni, Msinga in August 2014;
- congratulates the Greytown Family Violence, Child Protection and Sexual Offences Unit, which thoroughly investigated the incident, leading to the successful prosecution of the convicted rapist; and
- expresses its approval of the heavy sentence meted out to the rapist, and hopes that the sentence will serve as a deterrent to other would-be rapists.
Agreed to.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I see that corner is productive today. No, don’t worry, hon Khubisa, it is not a comment on the performance of your party. I am just congratulating them for being very active at the back.
Prof N M KHUBISA: I was going to say except for the jealousy that I see in this House.
Mr M L SHELEMBE
Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM
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RAPIST’S CONVICTION APPLAUDED
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M L SHELEMBE: Deputy Speaker, on behalf of the IFP I move without notice:
That the House–
- notes that on Monday, 16 March 2015, a man was sentenced to 20 years in prison by the Greytown Regional Court for raping his aunt;
- further notes that the convicted man is 30 years old…
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, we have just had that motion read out in the House by the hon Shaik-Emam, if I am not mistaken.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, do you notice the similarity between what you are reading and what was read? [Interjections.] Hon member, go and check it while we proceed with the other motions. Please, just make sure that it is not the same thing.
Mr M U KALAKO
Mr M L SHELEMBE
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SWIFT ACTION BY POLICE LEADS TO ROBBERS’ ARREST
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M U KALAKO: Deputy Speaker, on behalf of the ANC I move without notice:
That the House–
- welcomes the swift arrest of four people on Thursday, 12 March, in connection with the robbery of SA Broadcasting Corporation, SABC, journalists outside Milpark Hospital in Johannesburg last week;
- further notes the video footage showing two men accosting SABC contributing editor Vuyo Mvoko, as he waited to deliver his report in front of the camera, went viral on YouTube;
- recalls that journalist Chriselda Lewis was preparing for a live crossing on Tuesday night after covering the arrival of Zambian president, Edgar Lungu, at the hospital;
- further recalls two of the suspects have been positively linked to the robbery while two others were arrested for allegedly buying some of the goods stolen from the SABC team during the robbery;
- expresses its gratitude to those who gave police information following appeals for help with the investigation; and
- congratulates the SA Police Service for their quick response following the public outcry, and hopes that more arrests will be made in relation to every victim of crime in the country.
Agreed to.
Ms C N MAJEKE
Mr M U KALAKO
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MOTORIST ARRESTED AFTER HIT AND RUN
(Draft Resolution)
Ms C N MAJEKE: Deputy Speaker, on behalf of the UDM I move without notice:
That the House–
- notes that a 22-year-old engineering student and model from Port Elizabeth, Jean-Louis Matthee, died after his motorcycle collided with a Mercedes Benz at about 10pm on Sunday, 15 March 2015;
- further notes that the driver of the Mercedes Benz drove away from the accident scene. He was later arrested after swift action by members of the SA Police Service’s Investigating Unit;
- commends the speedy reaction by the SA Police Service officers;
- calls for the suspect to face the full might of the law; and
- sends its condolences to the family of Jean-Louis Matthee.
Agreed to.
Prof N M KHUBISA
Ms C N MAJEKE
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SA WRITER WINS DEBUT PAN-AFRICAN LITERATURE AWARD
(Draft Resolution)
Prof N M KHUBISA: Deputy Speaker, on behalf of the NFP I move without notice:
That the House –
- notes that on 15 March 2015, SA writer Songeziwe Mahlangu won the 2014 Etisalat Grand Prize for Literature for his debut novel titled Penumbra;
- further notes that the Etisalat Prize for Literature is a Pan-African prize for debut authors of published fiction;
- acknowledges that the award ceremony was held in Nigeria and attended by the illustrious and esteemed African author Wole Soyinka;
- congratulates Mr Mahlangu for being awarded this prestigious Pan-African prize; and
- urges all young aspiring writers in South Africa to persevere in achieving their goals and to bring honour to our country by telling the stories of our society as it is.
Agreed to.
Mr M U KALAKO
Prof N M KHUBISA
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ELDERLY PEOPLE IN TOWNSHIPS FALSELY ACCUSED OF WITCHRAFT
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M U KALAKO: Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the House–
- notes with great shock the burning to death of an elderly woman at Laudium in Pretoria on Saturday, 14 March 2015;
- further notes that her husband was fortunately rescued by the police after he was severely assaulted;
- recalls that this dreadful act of cowardice is as a result of a crowd who suspected the woman and her husband of having a hand in the death of an eight-year-old child a few weeks ago;
- understands that the postmortem revealed that the child had died of excessive exposure to high-voltage electricity as a result of open, live electrical cables and therefore no foul play was found;
- believes that the woman and her husband were targeted only because they were sangomas and therefore could have killed the child and used her body parts for muti;
- realises that, as people get old, particularly women in black townships and rural areas, they face the danger of being taken for witches;
- condemns with the contempt it deserves the widespread accusations of elderly women as witches and their attack thereafter;
- further condemns the killing of innocent elderly people based on unfounded accusations; and
- calls on the members of our communities to protect and respect the elderly and to desist from taking the law into their own hands and to rather report issues of crime to the police.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If there are no objections, I will put the motion.
Mr N SINGH: Deputy Speaker, the Table staff proposed the use of the word “allegedly” in paragraphs 3 and 5. I don’t know if that was contained in the motion that was presented.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If it is accepted, I would suggest putting the motion. Are there any objections?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSTION: Deputy Speaker, I would like to propose an amendment to it. We don’t have a Group Areas Act in South Africa any more. Therefore, there is no such thing as a “black township”, we have “townships”. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, this is a difficulty that I cannot handle. There is no objection to the motion but there are concerns about the language. [Interjections.] Can we agree that that language will be changed - if such a change is accepted. Let us find out from the people who moved it. What is your reaction to that, hon member?
Mr M U KALAKO: No, no, Deputy Speaker, there are black townships in South Africa. [Interjections.] There is Gugulethu and Langa. It is practical and a fact.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSTION: Deputy Speaker, the DA objects to the motion.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, the motion has been objected to and falls away.
ANNOUNCEMENT
MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
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IMPLEMENTATION OF BIOMETRIC MEMBER IDENTIFICATION SYSTEM TO CAPTURE ATTENDANCE INFORMATION
(Announcement)
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I have been instructed to issue the following announcement. Some of the members in the House will find this announcement interesting because they have been referring to questions of records and record keeping here.
I am told that the information and communications technology, ICT, in the Chamber includes a biometric member identification system. We have been informed that there is now a readiness for its implementation. Currently, attendance is captured manually and then transferred to an electronic database for record keeping. The new system will record members’ attendance more efficiently by making use of a fully electronic system to capture and store attendance information.
The biometric member identification system will be implemented when we return from the Easter recess. The Chamber staff will be available initially to assist members in recording their attendance and also to note any problem encountered so that this may be resolved quickly. Members will also be given a document titled Guide for Members for the purpose of handling this process and its implementation properly.
The House adjourned at 17:49.
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