Hansard: NA: Consideration of request for approval of United Nations Arms Trade Treaty in terms of section 231(2) of Constitution; Consideration of Report of PC on Environmental Affairs on Public Hearings on Sustainable Development Goals, Climate Change and Rhino Killing in KwaZulu-Natal, Mpumalanga and North West Provinces; Consideration of Report of PC on Police on Oversight Visit to Police Stations in Nyanga and Philippi in Western Cape

House: National Assembly

Date of Meeting: 19 Nov 2014

Summary

No summary available.

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Minutes

UNREVISED HANSARD

NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

19 NOVEMBER 2014

PAGE: 1

 

 

WEDNESDAY, 19 NOVEMBER 2014

PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

_________

 

The House met at 15:05.

 

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.

 

 

QUESTIONS - The DEPUTY PRESIDENT

 

START OF DAY

 

 

 

Question 9:

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Madam Speaker, thank you for this opportunity. The question is on social cohesion. The most effective way to promote social cohesion among our people is to address those issues that militate against the achievement of social cohesion and those issues that continue to divide communities, that contribute to the prevalence of mistrust and that undermine a sense of social solidarity.

 

In many ways this goes to the heart of what this administration is all about. If we want to advance social cohesion, we have to do a number of things. This includes addressing the issues of poverty, unemployment and inequality because, in many ways, these impede the achievement of social cohesion. We therefore need to accelerate economic growth and critically ensure that the benefits of growth are equitably shared by all. Many of our people need jobs. We need to reduce inequality; we need to tackle exclusion that is based on race, gender, age and disability. Our country needs to address landlessness and homelessness and overcome the spatial divisions of apartheid.

 

The challenges we face require us to also combat and confront a number of diseases, such as HIV/Aids and tuberculosis in particular. In many ways, we are taking steps in this regard and our efforts are applauded worldwide. We are doing a lot to combat crime and the abuse of elderly women and children. We are doing a lot to combat racism and xenophobia because these perpetuate divisions and fuel conflict.

 

We continue to take steps to address corruption in both the public and private sectors, which erodes confidence and trust. There is now a pressing need to enjoin our people to work together to enable South Africa to promote high levels of growth and employment and reduce poverty and inequality.

 

On the issue of compacts, as asked in the question, a number of compacts already exist, and a number of social compacts are in formation. The social dialogue process that is currently under way in Nedlac and is meant to deal with the issue of instability in the labour market, and also to tackle income inequality, could eventually become part of a broader social compact. We are hopeful that the social partners involved in Nedlac will be able to advance in that direction.

 

There are similar multistakeholder engagements that are also taking place in basic education, land reform, agriculture, human settlements and elsewhere. These need to be welcomed and encouraged, as they are efforts that are organic among our people to try and enhance social cohesion. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Ms B N DLULANE: Speaker, I would like to thank the Deputy President. I am in full agreement with your response. We seem to be losing the solidarity in South Africa that we gained during the 2010 Fifa World Cup tournament, and we are seeing racist incidents increasing, such as the University of Cape Town student that urinated on the head of a black man and saw absolutely nothing wrong with that horrific and despicable act. How do we encourage individuals and communities to become active citizens in transforming our society and building a nation on a foundation of solidarity? I thank you.

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, one of the issues that the National Development Plan highlights is to engage the citizens of our country in a project of nation-building to enhance social cohesion. The National Development Plan seeks to enjoin citizen activism on our people so that the citizens of our country must recognise that they do not only enjoy the rights that are enshrined in our Constitution but that they also have responsibilities. They have responsibilities to deal with the ills of our past – the ills of our past, such as racism, such as exclusion, such as the exploitation of people and inequality. These are projects that the government of our country has decided to embark on to try and close the fissures of the past and make sure that we build a nation.

 

Having started from 1994, I would like to believe that a lot of progress has been made. The founding father of our democracy, Nelson Mandela, called on us to reconcile, and that project is still under way. There will be regression from time to time, which we need to deal with and tackle, but we are fortunate in that we have a Constitution that enshrines values and principles and that can continue to bind us together as a nation. Wherever there are challenges, we have various structures of the state that can help us address those: the courts, the Human Rights Commission and a whole number of other structures.

 

The project of building a South African nation needs to gather speed because we must deliver a democratic, nonracial, nonsexist South Africa. This is what we are all called on to deliver. [Applause.]

 

Rev K R J MESHOE: Speaker, through you to the Deputy President, I am more interested to know how sport can be used to achieve social cohesion in the country. Look at what happened during the rugby World Cup, when the nation came together. During the soccer World Cup, again, people from outside marveled at how South Africans could stand together. Now, when one looks at what happened during apartheid, there was skill among the coloured, Indian and white people; there were great soccer players. There was a soccer leagues called the SA Football Association, Transvaal Indian Football Association, SA Coloured Football Association and so on. All these associations had very highly skilled people from different race groups.

 

It seems that we have lost those skills. Many players in KwaZulu-Natal who are skilled are not seen today because it is as if soccer is now for black people only. What can we do to ensure that all skillful people from the different race groups come together not just for a once-off event, for example during a World Cup, but that skilled South African players, regardless of their racial background, can come together continually as part of our efforts to achieve social cohesion? Thank you.

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker and hon Rev Meshoe, sport is indeed a very important aspect around which we can build a nation. Indeed, the government of our country has embarked on a number of programmes, a number of initiatives and projects ably led by our Minister of Sport and Recreation. At a cultural level, many other initiatives are under way, ably led by our Minister of Arts and Culture, Mr Nathi Mthethwa, and, together with a number of other Cabinet colleagues, they are doing a lot to engender a spirit of social cohesion using both sport and culture. Indeed, it extends to many other areas of our lives, such as education and so forth.

 

With regard to sport, the various steps and initiatives that are being taken are aimed at making sure that our sportsmen and women represent the totality of the South African nationhood. We are trying - and these steps are under way - to ensure that when our sportspeople play, they are seen to be representatives of all our people. Admirable steps are being taken in that regard in certain codes and disciplines but in others we still face a number of challenges. The hon member focused on the example of soccer, but I do know that a number of plans and initiatives are being embarked on, even at school level, to make sure that soccer is seen as a sport that can unite even young people from a very young age, moving on to the national level as well.

 

The same thing needs to happen with rugby, with cricket, with many other codes. So, we have embarked on a number of initiatives in this regard to continue to build a truly South African nation. This we will continue to do through the programmes that our various Ministries continue to foster in many ways. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Mr Y CASSIM: Chairperson, through you to the Deputy President, in light of the recent spike of violent racist, sexist and intolerant attacks in this country, those stoked and perpetuated by both individuals and rogue members of groups such as the Congress of SA Students, Cosas, what is government doing to root out the emergence of groups that rally against the realisation of the National Development Plan’s ideals of inclusion and social cohesion? Thank you.

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, the government of the Republic of South Africa is committed to making sure that we root out racism in all its facets through the length and the breadth of our country. If there are individuals, people, entities, or organisations that perpetuate this ugly feature of our past, the government of this republic will make sure that those who do so are brought to book.

 

Indeed, we do still see incidents such as these. On the farms of our country we see that many of our people who happen to be black are still being treated very badly because they happen to be black. Some of them are even killed. They are maimed and injured. All these acts need to come to an end. Even in the workplace, some people are still being oppressed because they happen to be black. We still have a number of people who are bent on adhering to racist behaviour, and racism exists within our ranks.

 

We have a wonderful Constitution that sets out clear principles and values against this, and we have various agencies of government that are ready to take action against people who perpetuate racist acts and activities. These can be used to make sure that we rid our country of any form of racism. So, if there are any such incidents that the member is aware of, we can rely on our various agencies in government to rid our country of all these terrible deeds of the past.

 

Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Speaker, through you to the hon Deputy President, social cohesion is sometimes made very difficult to achieve by the fact that communities are defined by their political affiliations and therefore become partisan in their thinking and in their actions. My question is the following: How is your office assisting to facilitate initiatives that are aimed at political reconciliation among the different political parties? I thank you.

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon member, our office - particularly since you are phrasing the question in relation to the various political parties - as the Leader of Government Business has already started with a process of meeting various political parties, particularly those that are represented in Parliament. Indeed, yesterday we did just that, and we hope that that initiative will bear fruit as time goes on.

 

More broadly, our office is determined to make sure that we engender a spirit of co-operation, of collaboration, of working together, not only among parties that are here but more broadly in South African society, so that all of us as South Africans have a feeling that we are South Africans first, before anything else. We must see ourselves as being proud South Africans, committed to the building of the South African nation, a nation that has just emerged from the ravages of apartheid. We embarked on a number of initiatives, some of which we roll out at a public level, where we go and meet communities, organisations and various institutions to engender this spirit of oneness, of one South African nationhood, and work together to achieve the goals and objectives that are set out in our Constitution. Thank you.

 

The SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, I have been informed that Question 10 has been withdrawn at the request of the Leader of the Opposition. We therefore move to Question 11, which was asked by the hon M Johnson.

 

 

QUESTION 11

 

QUESTION 9

 

 

 

Question 11:

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Speaker, the Expanded Public Works Programme, the EPWP, was established to draw a significant number of poor and unemployed South Africans into productive work in a manner that will enable them to gain skills and increase their capacity to earn income.

 

The Department of Public Works conducted a midterm review of Phase 2 of this programme in 2012. The study that they embarked on found that the EPWP has had a positive impact on the communities where it is being implemented. Many participants in these programmes have moved above the poverty line thanks to the income they receive from working in this programme. Most participants were unemployed before they were engaged to work in these programmes and had been looking for employment for periods running from three to five years, or more.

 

There are various wonderful testimonies of participants who have been interviewed for evaluation studies. They show that the EPWP is indeed making a significant, positive impact in their lives. The EPWP has contributed to the provision of social infrastructure in a number of areas through, among other things, the construction and maintenance of structures, such as schools, clinics, magistrate’s courts and prisons.

 

In response to the National Development Plan, the NDP, the third phase of the EPWP targets the creation of up to 6 million work opportunities between April 2014 and March 2019. The programme contributes to the NDP in a number of ways. Some of these are as follows. It achieves income transfer in the form of wages into poor communities. This not only reduces poverty but it also creates an economic stimulus, targeted directly at poor people. It also creates work opportunities. Those who participate in the work of the EPWP have found that public employment can assist in mitigating the effects of social problems. They build self-esteem and they develop social networks for many of the people; networks that are able to make people get other opportunities, either for work or some gainful activity.

 

The EPWP provides social assets and services that can have a transformative impact on development and improve the quality of life in communities. It promotes community participation. The increased emphasis on participatory approaches and the use of nonprofit agencies in delivery are helping to build new forms of partnership between government, civil society and communities.

 

Given the high levels of unemployment in our country and the relatively low level of skills, the public employment programmes of government are essential in combating poverty and improving the employability of millions of our people. Those who have participated have said some of the skills they have gained by participating in these programmes have stood them in good stead as they looked for jobs. Some of them have found jobs. So, these programmes, rather than being derided and looked down on, should be seen as good platforms and a springboard for many of our people, particularly in the rural areas and in our townships. They enable them to have self-esteem, self-confidence and able to benefit from opportunities that may come their way. Thank you.

 

Mr M JOHNSON: Speaker, I thank the Deputy President for that elaborate response to a very important issue in our society. While we do not take this programme for granted, many families have qualitatively changed their lives for the better. Towards the further enhancement of the impact of the Expanded Public Works Programme in improving our people’s lives for the better, how does government seek to promote collaboration of a similar nature in other governmental departments and state-owned entities? I thank you, sir.

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, the lessons that we have learned in the EPWP roll-out programme have truly been invaluable. In addition, the evaluation process that we have gone through in terms of assessing its impact and its effectiveness has really yielded good lessons for us.

 

It has also shown that what we have learnt in this Department of Public Works programme can actually be expanded to other departments. Indeed, other departments, like the environmental department or Ministry, also participates in this. There is a programme that deals with Working for Water. Here, a number of our people, particularly in the rural areas, are drawn into these programmes and are able to gain jobs, useful economic activity - that is, get an income. They also work in their own areas and environments with regard to taking out invasive plants and being connected to the environment.

 

In a number of areas, the Department of Social Development has also embraced this type of activity with regard to getting people to work in communities, caring for others in our communities. A number of community workers have actually been created and generated through this very programme.

 

So, this programme should never be seen as a stand-alone or some type of silo programme. It is a programme that is expandable - indeed, it is being expanded in a number of areas. State-owned enterprises can also benefit from this with regard to procurement as they too roll this out and engage a number of other entities or the people who are organising our communities. The co-operative movement is also participating in this process and therefore the hands and arms of this programme can be quite widespread so as to be able to engage our people economically in gainful activity.

 

So, with this programme – and let us say that a number of governments around the world embark on public employment programmes – in our country, we have really charted a new path, and many countries in the world are coming here to learn how we have implemented this type of programme. In many ways, our implementation of public works has become world class, because it has spread out through various communities and it now involves not only building roads and digging trenches and closing them, it actually involves doing meaningful work to improve and build our communities. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Ms A MATSHOBENI: Hon Speaker, we hold the strong view that the Expanded Public Works campaign has not necessarily impacted much on the lives of the poor people of our country, especially in terms of job creation, poverty alleviation and addressing inequalities. However, if the Deputy President holds a different view on this matter, could he please provide us with the details of such impact by addressing the specific challenges mentioned here, for example poverty?

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, what I have been outlining in regard to the impact of this programme is not a thumb-suck. It is not something that I have dreamt up. An independent evaluation process was embarked on by independent people and they have evaluated the impact of our Expanded Public Works Programme. Those who evaluated it have said that South Africa has a number of lessons to teach many other countries in the world with regard to the way we have gone about implementing our Public Works programme.

 

When the government says we are going to create 6 million work opportunities up to 2019, this is not a pipe dream. In the past administration, we were able to create millions of job opportunities. Admittedly, these are not permanent jobs. They are job opportunities and they are not full-time jobs for the whole year. They do tend to occupy our people for a number of months in a year.

 

A number of those who participate in these opportunities have been interviewed and are on record - either on paper or on the radio or television - as having said that these programmes have been life-changing, as far as they were concerned. With regard to the way in which they have gained, they say they have been prepared either for jobs or full-time job opportunities. The job opportunities have given them an income where an income did not exist in the past, and they have lifted their self-esteem. These are important gains and we should never look down on them. We should never just dismiss them out of hand. These programmes are making an impact.

 

There is the temptation in our country to look very negatively at everything the government is doing. However, this is one programme that is clearly making a direct impact on poor people, people who have nothing, people who have no jobs and people who are living under very difficult conditions. People who have participated in these programmes speak highly of the EPWP.

 

Indeed, the issue of reducing inequality is a huge challenge for all of us, as South Africans. What is pleasing is that the government of the Republic is working continuously to reduce inequality, unemployment and also poverty in our country. The various steps that have been taken by the government of the Republic of South Africa are aimed at improving the lives of our people, and the EPWP has been doing precisely that. It has touched many lives and, in the next five years, it intends to touch 6 million lives. Thank you.

 

Mr K P SITHOLE: Hon Speaker, hon Deputy President, have all 278 municipalities now met the criteria for eligibility for grant funding in respect of EPWP roll-out projects? How do we prevent municipalities from using EPWP-marked funds for day-to-day municipal expenses and maintenance projects?

 

In respect of the vision of the NDP, particularly for transforming society and uniting the country, how do you, as the Leader of Government Business, ensure that the people are not being employed just by showing a membership card of the ruling party?

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, I am not aware that municipalities can use their grants for EPWP work for other municipal expenses, projects or programmes. My information is that the funds deployed for EPWP work are clearly targeted and they are meant to focus on those projects. People who are employed or engaged in EPWP programmes have a targeted budget and targeted projects.

 

How are we going to make sure that, in relation to the NDP, for example, we are not using this to foster party-political purposes or projects? Clearly, that has never been the intention of the EPWP projects. They are meant to benefit the mass of our people, wherever they are implemented. Party political affiliation is and should never be the determinant of whether one participates or not. They are meant for our people, as a whole, and that is why they have such a wonderful impact. Thank you.

 

Dr D T GEORGE: Chairperson, by the end of this year the government’s wage bill for the country’s nearly 1 million civil servants will amount to R439 billion, or about 39% of total noninterest government expenditure. This is far higher than last year’s average of 22% for other emerging markets. With the country’s struggling economic growth figures and with cuts to public expenditure being unavoidable and, in fact, necessary over the next year, how will government adjust spending on the EPWP to focus on facilitating a more open economic environment that can create and sustain real jobs, not just job opportunities? Thank you.

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, the Budget that is presented to Parliament by the Minister of Finance - if the hon member has checked this out - does include a clearly set-out amount for EPWP programmes, and EPWP programmes should never been seen as impeding the government’s ability to spend money or to embark on other programmes.

 

We all agree that the challenge of unemployment is a challenge that faces all of us. It faces government. It faces communities. It faces the private sector. All role-players in our economy are called on to play their role in making sure that there is job creation. Job creation is not the exclusive terrain of either government or the private sector or communities. We all need to play a key role.

 

So, I am not aware that EPWP programmes or budgeted amounts actually impede the creation of jobs. In fact, that is not the case. We are committed to creating jobs. We are committed to engaging our people in economic activity, and some of that activity will be through Public Works programmes. Some will be through proper, full-time job creation. We are going to be doing precisely that. That is the economic thrust we have, as a government. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

 

 

QUESTION 12

 

QUESTION 11

 

 

 

QUESTION 12:

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Speaker, members of the executive are collectively and individually accountable to Parliament. This is beyond debate. This is both in terms of the Constitution and in terms of the Rules of the National Assembly. I regularly report to Cabinet on the status of questions that are submitted to members of the executive. This is part of Cabinet’s collective commitment to ensuring that members of the executive fulfil their responsibility of accounting to Parliament.

 

The attendance or absence of members of the executive in National Assembly plenaries are a matter of public record. These records can be obtained by the hon member. To my knowledge, the members of the executive are fulfilling their obligations to respond to questions in the National Assembly. [Interjections.] If the hon member has information about any member of the executive who is not doing so, I would be grateful if that information could be forwarded. Thank you. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

 

Mr M A PLOUAMMA: Thank you, hon Speaker, and thank you, Deputy President. Your words are encouraging. I hope all hon Ministers will apply stoic and Spartan habits with a visionary intelligence and know that they occupy positions of responsibility at a very critical time in our young democracy. They should therefore serve with an attitude of generosity and know that being a Minister is not a status symbol or victory of some sort, but is about being a servant of the people.

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: I can give the assurance that all the members of the executive that I have the privilege of serving with do not see themselves as occupying those positions as a right. They see themselves as servants of the people. They are there not necessarily because they wish to be there; they were appointed to be servants of the people. They were appointed to work for our people. I am glad to say that since I joined this executive, having come from the private sector, I have found a great deal of commitment among my colleagues in the executive. I have found that they work extremely hard. They are totally committed to their tasks. I have also found that they are smart, they know what they are talking about and they know their work. They were put there because they are well endowed with knowledge and with commitment and they know their jobs. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Ms S J NKOMO: Thank you, Madam Speaker. May I start by first making a statement on the statement between the Deputy President and the leaders of political parties yesterday? I note that in point 6 on the first page, the statement actually states the following:

... to reaffirm the principle of executive accountability and that all members of the executive are to appear before Parliament as required by the Rules.

 

My question to the Deputy President is: What would the Deputy President, as Leader of Government Business, deem as appropriate parliamentary censure or sanction for a Minister who, in terms of Rule 109 of the Rules of the National Assembly, misses out on parliamentary question sessions without having any reasonable reason for doing so? Would the Deputy President deem it appropriate for there to be a public name-and-shame censure in this instance?

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: The issues that were covered in the statement that was released yesterday were an attempt – let me underline “attempt” – at addressing some of the challenges that this House faces. It was an attempt, and the extent to which that attempt will have succeeded to address this will be seen, clearly, either later this afternoon or in time to come.

 

I thought that it was a real, serious attempt; an attempt that was applauded by many of our people who do not sit in this House. Many of the people who do sit in this House felt that for once an incredible window had been opened for this House to regain its stature, to regain its standing among our people as a House that can be respected and a House that makes the laws of our country. [Applause.] I think that position hangs in the balance this afternoon. It hangs in the balance because it is possible that we may not all have been totally committed to going through with that position. [Applause.]

 

It fills me with a great deal of regret, having had the great opportunity of meeting the leaders of our people as represented in Parliament, that we now face a situation in which we are going to erase this wonderful development, which was so highly applauded by our people. [Applause.] I think that is a great pity. [Interjections.]

 

Coming back ... [Interjections.] Madam Speaker, I am required to stand here and answer questions. I am not engaging in debate. [Interjections.] This is precisely what we sought to address yesterday: that members of the executive ought to be given an opportunity to answer questions. [Applause.] And they must do so in a climate that enables them to answer questions. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

 

If this very type of behaviour immediately goes against precisely what we were talking about yesterday, what it means is that what we struck yesterday does not hold. [Interjections.] [Applause.] It does not hold. If I were engaged in a debate, I would have understood that, yes, there can be heckling and interjections. But I have been asked to come here and answer questions. [Interjections.] If I am going to be impeded from answering those questions, then what is the point of my being here to answer the questions? [Applause.]

 

So, all I am saying is that as much as I am prepared to answer questions, so my Cabinet colleagues are prepared to come and answer questions. [Interjections.] Those who disagree – and indeed people will always disagree; we will never agree on everything – should then have the opportunity to say, “I disagree”, rather than impede the one who is supposed to answer questions. [Applause.] I think that should be the accepted rule and the accepted way of engaging and answering questions.

 

The SPEAKER: Order! Excuse me, Deputy President. Hon Mulder, do you have a point of order?

 

Dr C P MULDER: Yes, it is a point of order, hon Deputy Speaker.

 

The SPEAKER: What is the ... I am not the Deputy Speaker!

 

Dr C P MULDER: My apologies, Ma’am!

 

The SPEAKER: This is not the first time. What is the point of order, hon Mulder?

 

Dr C P MULDER: Hon Speaker, that was the first time that I made that mistake.

 

The SPEAKER: Okay, proceed.

 

Dr C P MULDER: Hon Speaker, I hear what the hon Deputy President is saying. And the hon Deputy President says he should be allowed the time to answer the questions. But that is exactly the problem. The question put to the hon Deputy President now and the follow-up question was: What is the correct censure that he proposes in terms of Rule 109 ... [Inaudible.]

 

The SPEAKER: Hon Mulder, that is not a point of order. [Interjections.]

 

Dr C P MULDER: No, Ma’am, it is a valid point of order. That was the question. The hon Deputy President did not answer that question. [Interjections.]

 

The SPEAKER: Hon Mulder, that is not a point of order. Hon Maimane?

 

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy President, I think you and I can agree that the spirit of what came out yesterday says that we want to affirm the Constitution and that we want to affirm the Rules of this House. And emanating from the Rules of this House is the conversation about accountability.

 

How is that when you ask for accountability, you are going against the very agreement we entered into? So, the question here is that on 20 June President Jacob Zuma made it clear that he was entering into ... [Interjections.] I have not seen him! [Interjections.]

 

The SPEAKER: Order, hon members!

 

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: He made it quite clear that he was entering into a “culture of accountability”. The question that was asked by the hon Nkomo must not be changed. What sanctions are in place when Ministers refuse to turn up? Furthermore, this is the key issue: The performance management system, or the performance contracts, that we hear about have been kept secret. So, we do not know if in the secret documents that say how often Ministers must appear, they are required to be here, not “asked” to be here. They must be here. It is the same for the President. What sanctions are in place if they break their performance contracts? Thank you very much. [Applause.]

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, before I was interrupted, I was on my way to answering that question. [Interjections.] I was stopped from answering the questions. If the hon members still want me to answer the question ...

 

The SPEAKER: Please proceed, hon Deputy President. I did not realise you had not finished.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: I had not finished. Thank you for protecting me.

 

The SPEAKER: You are protected.

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Regarding the issue of the censure that can be applied, I report regularly, as I indicated, to Cabinet about both the attendance and the answering of questions by Ministers to Cabinet. I do this every time Cabinet meets. Through the records that I pick up here, I have seen that there has been a great deal of adherence and, indeed, improvement with regard to Ministers living up to the tasks that they are meant to live up to in answering questions, both written questions and oral questions.

 

Now, if Ministers get slack on doing that, I am going to be the very first to notice and the processes that we go through at the Cabinet level are that those Ministers will indeed be accountable first to the Cabinet as a whole and indeed to the President. And lastly, of course, they are accountable to this body. I have not seen a need at this stage for any censure that needed to be applied against any of our Ministers. [Interjections.] [Applause.] Our Ministers have been doing a good job, so I have not seen the need for any censure. [Applause.]

 

The SPEAKER: Hon Deputy President, I do not know whether you have also dealt with the issues raised by the hon Maimane.

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: If that was a question that the hon Maimane was raising, it was more of a statement than a question. He was referring more to the would-be agreement that was arrived at yesterday. It was an agreement that we all announced and an agreement that, in my view, is about to lie in tatters because of what is unfolding now. So, that was more of a statement than a question. Thank you.

 

The LEADER OF OPPOSITION: Speaker, can I raise a point of order?

 

The SPEAKER: Order! What is the point of order, hon Maimane?

 

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: My question also pertained to performance contracts by Ministers, not only to the agreement of yesterday. My question was about the performance contracts not being made public and about accountability.

 

The SPEAKER: Hon Deputy President, do you want to address the issue of the performance contracts?

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: The performance contracts that Ministers enter into are between the President and the Ministers, and those contracts are signed by the President and the Ministers. In the end, much of what is set out there is set out in the strategic plans of the departments that the Ministers oversee. [Interjections.] So, all of this is out there in the open for everybody to see. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

 

Mr W M MADISHA: Hon Speaker, saying “I shall do this” and the actual implementation are two different things, Mr Deputy President. Kindly take this forward and explain to the House that you, as the actual Leader of Government Business, will be able to pay attention to Ministers who supply answers that are clearly nonanswers, delay responses to questions for weeks on end, and cherry-pick to answer only parts of a question so that the exercise of accountability is not rendered futile by Ministers who are averse to being held accountable.

 

I want to say this: Mr Deputy President, we have been seeing this kind of thing for many months. There is no actual implementation. Very many of them are usually not in the House, and there is that cherry-picking that we are talking about. What are you going to do?

 

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Hon Speaker, the issue of nonanswers is a subjective question - it really depends on the beholder. If a question has been asked and a dissatisfactory answer has been given, it behoves the person asking the question to ask once again for a more direct answer. That is what I can say to the hon member, if that would be of any value to him.

 

Regarding the issue of delaying, it may sound or seem like people are stalling, but quite often Ministers also have to gather information, in between the many other things they do. Some of the questions asked are quite intricate and they involve Ministers having to get the information from their officials. I have found, to be quite honest, that this does take time. I would not want the hon Madisha to think that Ministers are running away from answering questions. Quite often they are actually getting answers and getting the facts so that they can provide the correct answers. [Interjections.]

 

What I can say is that I have seen many of our Ministers, if not all, truly at work, committed to answering questions, and I see this in the records that are evaluated on an ongoing basis. They are a bunch of people, a group of people, a collective of people who are really working hard to answer your questions. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

 

The SPEAKER: Order! That concludes questions to the Deputy President, and I thank him. [Applause.]

 

 

 

 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY –GOVERNANCE

 

QUESTION 12 – DEPUTY PRESIDENT  

 

 

 

 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY

 

GOVERNANCE

 

Cluster 3

 

 

Question 424:

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: The response is the following: The department has supported the establishment of Municipal Public Accounts Committees, or MPACs, as they are called, constituted by councillors, in the majority of municipalities. The primary purpose of MPACs as an oversight committee of council is to ensure that issues raised by the Auditor-General are being addressed by the executive committees, mayoral committees and the management of municipalities.

 

The Association of Public Accounts Committee, APAC, conducts training, workshops and has in-house programmes periodically with members of MPACs in order to build their capability. It also shares experiences on the political responsibilities from the perspective of such structures as the Select Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa, in Parliament and in provincial legislatures.

 

Capacity-building programmes for councillors are conducted by the department in partnership with the SA Local Government Association, the National Treasury, and the relevant Sector Education and Training Authority, Seta, regarding the oversight responsibilities of councillors on financial matters in collaboration with the stakeholders. An induction programme will be developed for incoming councillors after the 2016 municipal elections. Thank you.

 

Mr A M MUDAU: Madam Speaker, I want to thank the Minister for the reply he gave us. I also want to say to the Minister: If this can happen, South Africa will move forward. Thank you.

 

The SPEAKER: Order! There clearly is no question there. Hon Ntwanambi? [Interjections.] Hon Godi? [Interjections.] Is the hon Godi not around?

 

Mr N T GODI: Speaker, I had not made any request to speak. [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Godi, your name is here but we will pass. It is no problem.

 

Mr M HLENGWA: Minister, thank you for you response. There are just two quick issues: The issue of political leadership is very important, particularly because councillors, by and large, want to flout the rules and the regulations that are put in place, especially when it comes to tendering.

 

Just last week, the NCOP was told by one of the Salga representatives that the officials are finding themselves increasingly under pressure because councillors want them to bypass the rules. The capacity that you are speaking about needs to be extended to the fact that councillors must accept this rule: “We must follow the rules!” What actions will be taken to ensure that the rules are followed?

 

Secondly, we need to also look at the issue of investigating tenders that have not been duly awarded, because it is there where corruption takes place the most. At the forefront of this corruption are councillors who do not want to abide by the rules of the game because they have other agendas. Thank you.

 

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Chairperson, one cannot help but agree with my colleague that political leadership is important and that there is tension in many municipalities between political office-bearers and the administration.

 

Doing the right thing in life is a tough mission. Most people will be tempted by some or other reason to do the wrong thing, as we constantly see around us. So, what we require are the appropriate enforcement mechanisms. If we make people literally scared that there is a serious risk of them being caught doing the wrong thing, they will stop doing the wrong thing.

 

So, enforcement is the key area that we are focusing on. There are various methods that we are trying to put in place to ensure that detection happens and happens faster, but also that enforcement takes place in the right way. 

 

Regarding the investigation of tenders, this is a responsibility that I share with the Minister of Finance. So, we need further discussion on this. Clearly we need to move in the direction that Gauteng is already going, which we also talked about in our Budget Vote earlier in the year: greater transparency, the involvement of the public and greater public scrutiny, on the one hand. On the other hand, we are currently putting together all the forensic reports that are available about investigations done in municipalities. We are doing this to understand what the chances are and what actions could be taken to not have a repetition of some of these problems. Thank you for the question. 

 

Mr P G MOTEKA: Chairperson, my question to the Minister is: Service delivery is a serious challenge, as we have witnessed in the past few years through service delivery protests. Yet, the Auditor-General’s report indicates that the councillors are not performing their oversight functions. What specific programmes do you have in place to empower the councillors to understand their role and functions? How will such programmes translate into addressing service delivery challenges? I thank you.

 

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: The MPAC system is more about financial accountability and ensuring that even if you have executive mayors and mayoral councils, they become responsible - very much like the executive here - to the other councillors and the structures in council to account for what they have done or what they have not done.

 

Regarding the question of service delivery, from our analysis not every service delivery protest at the moment is actually a genuine service delivery protest. There are genuine ones and there are also some that are the result of political agitation of one kind or another, or all sorts of other phenomena that actually take place on the ground.

 

Of course, the key to removing service delivery issues is to deliver the services and also to make sure that municipalities operate with greater efficiency. National departments and provincial departments should synchronise their work with municipalities - particularly in the weaker municipalities - so that we supply them with the right kind of capability or they build the right kind capability.

 

Above all, what we require in South Africa is a greater ability to listen to what people say, understand what their issues are and respond to them as a matter of urgency.

 

Mr K J MILEHAM: Chairperson, my question to the Minister is as follows: The greatest tool that voters possess for holding their councillors accountable when they do not perform their functions is to vote them out of office. What steps will you take to ensure that after the 2016 municipal elections, when political parties loose elections, they relinquish power and do not obstruct the democratic processes?

 

More specifically, will you assist the Western Cape provincial minister of local government, environmental affairs and development planning to resolve the crisis in the Oudtshoorn municipality, where the ANC-led coalition refuses to relinquish control of the municipality to the democratically elected DA-led coalition, which has a majority but is being prevented from governing? [Interjections.] [Applause.] 

 

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Hon Mileham, regarding the question of the Western Cape, that is the matter under discussion with the provincial Minister and I am hoping that we will find some solutions to that issue sooner rather than later.

 

Regarding the question of voters who will be voting people out: We are 20 years into democracy; by 2016 we will be 22 years into democracy. Until now, nobody who has been voted out - except for one particular set of incidents in one province - have stuck to their seats. So, I hope the opposition is not considering this as another tactic to disrupt democracy at some stage or the other. [Interjections.]

 

Prof N M KHUBISA: Thank you, Chairperson. Minister, it was reported in the Auditor-General’s report that more than R500 million was wasted on tenders that were given to families of councillors, councillors themselves and their friends. This is really a way of defrauding municipalities. What has the department done to ensure that the money - the government fiscus - is secured?   

 

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Hon Khubisa, that is a long battle but, as I said earlier on, both we and the Treasury are very determined to make sure that we introduce data transparency in the tendering system; introduce greater integrity in the tendering system; and ensure that both councillors and officials on the one hand but also people from the private sector on the other hand obey the rules.

 

In terms of the recovery of money, that depends on specific circumstances. Where appropriate, we will even litigate to recover money. Instead of going through long prosecution processes, there are instances where we are considering asset forfeiture as one example of sending out a message to this kind of constituency that they should not carry on with this kind of conduct, as we have indicated in several addresses to this Chamber.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you, Minister. That is the end of supplementary questions. Before I go on, let us just be reminded that there will only be four qupplementary questions per question, with one minute allocated to the person asking the question and three minutes to the response. That is just a reminder to all of us. I now ask the Minster of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs to answer Question 441, asked by hon Hlengwa.

 

QUESTION 441 - MINSTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS

 

QUESTION 424

 

 

 

 

Question 441

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Hon Hlengwa, the province has informed us that the MEC has approved the section 106 investigation regarding the allegations of corruption and financial mismanagement levelled against the Zululand District Municipality by the ANC Youth League. The province is finalising the appointment of the service provider to investigate the matter.

 

In more general terms, I think it is important for all of us to agree on certain principles. Among them is that no public funds should be used for party political purposes. However, we know that making that principle work in real terms has its challenges because the practice is quite different from the principle. We also know that there are not many angels around in respect of this question as well. Hopefully, once we have more information from the MEC, we will make that available to you online.

 

Mr M HLENGWA: Thanks, Minister. It is good news that an investigation is being carried through. I know that others are going to follow up on their questions and say, “It has been 13 years of clean audits.” I just want to say upfront that those were 13 years of the IFP’s good governance. [Interjections.]

 

Hon Minister, during the state of the nation address, the President was on that podium and listed this municipality as one of the 11 best performing municipalities. The problem I have in light of this information is whether we are not setting the precedent of giving people glowing accolades in the midst of problems. During this financial year the municipality in question has regressed, even in complying with legislation, and there was an unqualified audit with matters.

 

The follow-up question, then, is this: What is being done to make sure that we give people credit where it is due, as opposed to petty politicking on the podiums of this House? All the municipalities here also have similar findings. [Time expired.]

 

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Hon Hlengwa, we have very frequently said that an audit result is not a comprehensive report card. Many more factors need to be taken into account: whether you are in touch with the community; whether you are responsive to the community; whether you attend to problems as a matter of urgency; whether you have proper planning processes; and whether you have appointed the right people in the municipality. I can go on with that list.

 

So, we fully agree with you that when we are talking about a municipal performance - whether this one or any other - there should be a comprehensive set of indicators. At the moment, in Cogta, we are developing - and have developed - some of those indicators. We are developing a mechanism to monitor every single municipality in accordance with those indicators.

 

By early next year, we are going to be able to intervene proactively - or in a relatively short period of time – when we see the wrong things being done. That is our intent. We hope we can actually pull it off because we are talking about 278 entities, and each has its own complexities as well.

 

Be assured that we are not in this process to hand out accolades when they are not due, particularly because of budget constraints! 

 

Mr B M BHANGA: Minister, will you first do the right thing in your office by introducing legislation and regulatory reforms that are specifically aimed at preventing municipalities and councillors from spending taxpayers’ money for political party election campaigns? If not; why not? If so; what are they? [Applause.]

 

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: I think we do have comprehensive legislation. We have the Public Finance Management Act and we have the Municipal Finance Management Act. We have the Select Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa, and its equivalents here in the province and elsewhere. We have the Municipal Public Accounts Committees.

 

I do not think there is a shortage of legislation. Instead, there is a shortage of integrity in the political system and that applies to all parties. This realisation is not reserved for any particular party. There is no holier-than-thou stance that anyone here can actually take. [Applause.] We have evidence of that, which we will disclose when the time is right, Mr Bhanga.

 

So, the issue is: How do we ensure effective accountability? That is exactly what we have been talking about with the Deputy President! How do we ensure effective transparency and how do we ensure effective vigilance? [Interjections.] If we get that right, we will be able to restrain these malpractices.

 

Ms B P MABE: Hon Minister, as we move towards local government elections, this platform will be used and it will also be abused by those who do not have constituencies, but mostly by those who are seriously craving power, to spread misinformation and propaganda and, in the main, to try and discredit municipalities that are led by the ANC. [Interjections.]

 

Does the office of the Minister have a plan or strategy to deal with such unfounded allegations? All I can say is that the Minister should not lose focus and we wish him good luck. [Interjections.]

 

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Chairperson, may I thank the member for wishing me good luck. We all need good luck to make sure that we can make democracy work in South Africa. I suppose that what we are engaging in is part of robust politics - but even in robust politics there has to be integrity and honesty. Even in robust politics there has to be some element of dignity and respect. Even in robust politics there has to be some account for facts that matter; not just fiction that we cook up every now and again! [Applause.]

 

You are absolutely right, hon member, that we have all been witnesses to repeated phenomena of smearing of one kind or another. [Interjections.] That actually shows us the shallowness of the politics in some of the debates that go on in this House.

 

That is what the Deputy President is talking about: Whether we want to show this country that after all the money we here consume in our salaries, the only product we can give them is the kind of viciousness with which we attack each other and smear each other? That is a poor show! [Applause.] [Interjections.]

 

Ms D CARTER: Chair, I would like to first thank the Minister for the fact that most of my questions have been answered. However, taking into consideration the recent spending of council funds for party political reasons - but not only party political reasons, because we have also seen incidents like the one in Umsunduzi Local Municipality, where millions of rands went into private soccer teams - will it not be an answer for us to look at appointing an independent, baggage-free ombudsman in municipalities to try and assist in bringing about hefty penalties, including dismissal from office, etc?

 

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Thank you, hon Carter. That is the kind of innovation or creativity that we are going to require. There are some members who are genuinely interested in promoting the development of democratic institutions and democratic practices. Nobody here has all the answers. If we fool ourselves or try to fool the public that we have all of the answers, then we are really living in a dream world.

 

So, we do pay the Auditor-General millions of rands to undertake audits. Those audits find their way into this House, through its various substructures. All I can do at this point is to take your idea as one contribution to how we can place greater restraint on the abuse of public funds, and I invite other members to generate more ideas as well. Then, early in the new year, let us look at what we can do in addition to whatever we are doing now. Thank you very much.

 

Isindebele:

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Asikuthokoze Mnumzana. Lo begade kumbuzo wokugcina kileyo engoyokuzaliselela.

 

 

 

 

QUESTION 445 – MINISTER OF TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS AND CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE

 

 

 

 

Question 445

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Colleagues, there is no doubt that there is a direct link between the amount of revenue that a municipality can generate in its own right and the kind of economic base and economic diversity that it actually enjoys.

 

Regarding each municipality’s ability to exploit or rather fulfil the economic potential that we have in different parts of South Africa, this is the reason that one of the non-negotiables, so to speak, that we indicated in our Budget Vote is precisely that we want to create a culture of entrepreneurism among our municipalities so that they can look for innovative opportunities in their own areas and not repeatedly go to the Finance Ministry or anybody else and say I want more money.

 

It is with this in mind that 27 rural districts have been prioritised by government to create jobs; to create sustainable livelihoods. This is informed by the high levels of poverty and unemployment particularly in the rural and smaller municipalities that we have in South Africa.

 

There are three areas that these interventions can fall under. The first is the one I have indicated, the Back to Basicsapproach, which says that the municipalities must perform their basic functions well but also take responsibility and demonstrate leadership to actually ensure that they exploit or explore the economic potential of the area they live in.

 

Secondly, we have many different local economic development policy frameworks and different departments that can actually give assistance to municipalities, for example in the diversification of the local economic base, developing skills to support local economic developments, strengthening local economic governance and enabling enterprise development, which the Ministry under Minister Zulu will be able to help with as well.

 

A third area is intergovernmental collaboration. This is basically saying that where municipalities have difficulties, either district government or provincial government or national government can actually assist. There are examples of this in O R Tambo District Municipality, as well as in Joe Gqabi and several others. The final message, and I believe it is the crucial one, is that local initiative, local leadership, local innovation and local collaboration are what is required to widen the economic base, creating more opportunities for economic activity and jobs, thereby generating more revenue for those municipalities as well as the skills they require to do that.

 

Mr M L FILTANE: Thank you, hon Minister, for your detailed response to my question. What I am picking up from your response is that, as we all know, local government has been around since December 2000. Specifically regarding the smaller municipalities and the rural ones, there does not appear to be any steady, productive plan to actually make them produce their own revenue. They always depend on intergovernmental relations more than anything else. No rates are collected; Salga’s plans are nothing but talk shows; there is no rentable infrastructure which they could rent out to people so that they can run businesses from which the municipalities could then collect tax. They are not able to tap into their natural endowments, like rivers that run through those towns and municipalities. They just do not have the money to develop infrastructure to tap into those natural endowments. So, your response today is still not convincing. Thank you.

 

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: I do not expect you to be convinced, hon member, because it is a tough job that we have. It is one that will take a long time, given exactly what you have said, namely that the municipalities are 14 years young, while our democracy is 20 years young.

 

So, I certainly take your point that there is a reliance on intergovernmental transfer of funds. I certainly take your point that more needs to be done. Among the things that we are certainly putting into the pipeline is, firstly, a different kind of relationship between local municipalities in these areas and districts, where the real high-level technical capability lies at the district level, because each of these small municipalities are unable to acquire the right local economic development expert, or a planning expert, and so on. I think you will begin to see some results in some of the districts in the next six months.

 

We are also going to reconfigure the powers between the local municipalities and districts differently so that districts can play a more empowering and supportive role than they currently do. Of course you and I need to befriend the Minister of Finance to see whether the 9% that is in the equitable share from municipalities can be changed. However, another area that we are exploring at the moment is to look at redrawing some of the boundaries of those municipalities that cannot manage and whether the redrawing of the outer boundaries would actually assist in making them more sustainable. Those are some of the initiatives and I hope it helps to convince you that we do have some ideas in this regard.

 

Mr B M BHANGA: Chairperson, the City of Tshwane is owed more than R6,6 billion in unpaid bills and subsequently made the decision to start disconnecting government departments, embassies, schools, businesses and private residences from municipal services. Do you support the action of municipalities cutting services to government departments and private individuals in reaction to the nonpayment of municipal services? If not, why not, and what is your position?

 

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: One of the challenges faced by Tshwane or some of the other bigger municipalities is whether accurate bills are being communicated to either the departments, businesses or private individuals. So, in principle, debt collection is a very important part of ensuring that you run a good business. You cannot just provide services without services being paid for. So, debts have to be collected.

 

Secondly, all municipalities must have effective debt collection machineries within the municipality. There are too many municipalities that outsource this function and pay huge amounts of commission to other parties who collect debt on their behalf. Where it is absolutely justified, of course, cuts are necessary. They are a way of actually ensuring that the recipient of the service will make the payments that are actually required.

 

However, what we also require, for example in government departments, is a slightly different approach. At the moment they are saying we were given the wrong bill, for example a R100 000 bill when a normal bill is R10 000. We are not going to pay R100 000. So, we need to find a way where there will be proper negotiations between the municipality and their client so that even a part payment is made in the right direction until the aberration is resolved. So, Tshwane is moving in the right direction. They must just make sure they make the right case for the things they do. Thank you.

 

Ms Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANA: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, can small and rural municipalities financially expand and improve their revenue base within 20 years of a democratic South Africa while the country itself is still healing from 350 years of colonisation and apartheid? Thank you.

 

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: As I have indicated earlier on, yes, it is possible to do it but it is not always realistic to do it in the immediate term. The historical factors you mentioned are definitely constraints in many parts of the country and we all need to be realistic about it. At the same time, as I indicated earlier - hon Filtane indicated this as well - there is untapped potential in this country. What we require are entrepreneurial leaders in municipalities, with the right kind of integrity, who have the public interest at heart and who are able to command the resources and the technical assistance required to tap into the potential that is available so that the area can benefit.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, are you hon Louw? [Interjections.]

 

Mr D L TWALA: I am sitting on her chair, Chairperson.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order! Because you are from the EFF, I will allow you to speak.

 

Mr D L TWALA: Hon Minister, the self-sufficiency of municipalities is contingent on a vibrant local population with capabilities to capture opportunities for socioeconomic advancement, which, ideally, government should provide. In our country’s case, though, we have no shortage of vibrant and capable citizens. We have a local sphere of government that is fraught with problems, chief among which is the lack of comprehension of the major developmental role that local government can play. What is the Minister doing to transform local government from merely being a service delivery arm of government to being a developmental catalyst for the local economy? Let us admit that the current Local Economic Development Framework is not working. I thank you.

 

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Hon member, this Minister had the privilege of being part of the process of introducing Developmental Local Government in Chapter seven of the Constitution. So at least we have set the ambition right.

 

The second thing is to ensure - as we have indicated repeatedly but now more concretely in the Back to Basics approach - that we find every way of listening to people, changing their living conditions and putting a stop to the miserable conditions in which people live in many areas of this country. Above all, we must get the right kind of responsible leadership in the municipal terrain. But, as the hon member knows, one of the challenges we face is that political contestation among us at the local level, sometimes results in deliberate damage to infrastructure. There are many colleagues here who can give you examples of that. And then we say, “See, that water is not reaching place x”, or “That sanitation system is not working” or “That purification plant is not working”.

 

So, we have a culture developing in parts of the country, both within municipalities but also among political contestants, which says that we are justified in damaging infrastructure in which millions of rand was invested and which infrastructure is actually crucial in playing that developmental role and providing the services that are required for either short-term political gain or short-term financial gain. So we damage the water pipes so that business will go to people who run water tankers and they can then make a lot of money by supplying water. I think all of us - or many of us - in this House are aware of these phenomena. That is the culture we need to get rid of if we are going to move in the right developmental direction. However, thank you for the points you have made.

 

 

 

 

QUESTION 426

 

QUESTION 445

 

 

QUESTION 426

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: The question by hon Mthethwa is with reference to the Back to Basics approach. Recognising the widely divergent levels of performance between different categories of municipalities, the Department of Co-operative Governance undertook a municipal profiling exercise, as I indicated earlier, during June and July 2014.

 

Let me let this prisoner out. Assessing the performance of all municipalities in the country, in the areas of services, public engagement, good governance, financial management and technical capacity, the results of the municipal profiling exercise show that just over a third of our municipalities are performing their functions well, a third not so well and a third is performing them poorly.

 

The key pillars of the Back to Basics approach is putting people and their concerns first, as I have said on several occasions today, and to ensure constant contact with the communities through effective public participation platforms. This is the essence of the Back to Basics approach.

 

Secondly, we aim to create decent living conditions by consistently delivering municipal services; thirdly, ensuring good governance and the spending of public funds in a prudent and appropriate way; fourthly, ensuring sound financial management; and fifthly, sound institutional and administrative capabilities being built up in municipalities themselves.

 

The department is now implementing the Back to Basics approach in the following way: Firstly, we have nine provincial task teams involving the provinces, ourselves as the Department of Co-operative Governance And Traditional Affairs and other departments that are involved in service delivery. Secondly, each province is launching the Back to Basics approach. Thirdly, each municipality will adopt the programme and fashion it in a way in which it applies to that particular municipality. If you combine this with the monitoring mechanism I talked about earlier on, we are developing some machinery that will take us beyond where we are.

 

Clearly our priorities in the coming period must be that these functional municipalities are made far more functional and that in doing so we will at least place municipalities on a better footing than we have them this year. When will we achieve all of this? Well, we will make a start – we have made a start. Thirdly in the first half of next year, most municipalities will feel the impact of the Back to Basics approach. However, we realise that this requires hard work. Thank you.

 

Mr E M MTHETHWA: Minister, I just want to know if there is a way that your Back to Basics programme can link up with the Integrated Urban Development Framework presentation that you did yesterday. How can these two programmes be linked?

 

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Integrated Urban Development Framework and Back to Basics are pretty much linked because the whole idea in the IUDF is that we transform the local space. We transform the way we plan. We transform and reconceptualise the way in which we locate communities, economic opportunities and other social services and recreational opportunities.

 

It is about getting better integration between transport planning, housing planning, water planning and other forms of planning as well. In the immediate term we want to solve the crisis and some of the other challenges that municipalities face. In the medium term we want to start concretely implementing the IUDF. One example of this is the whole question of South African cities that are sprawling into areas way beyond where services are available. It becomes a very costly exercise to implement infrastructure which is unsustainable in the future.

 

We will be coming back to you early in the new year to suggest that we actually limit sprawl in our cities. We actually put in place outer boundaries beyond which, if anybody wants to undertake housing development, for example, they must pay additional development levies or face some other kind of burden to cover the cost of infrastructure up to that point.

 

Mr M S MBATHA: House Chair, the member is feeling sick with flu so I am taking the question. Hon Minister, as you have illustrated the Back to Basics programme follows a number of other programmes that the previous Ministers have always proposed and implemented. More recently, what we have seen is that in more municipalities, in particular those that have been dissolved recently, the problems are no longer service delivery driven but they are the problems of political infighting in the local leadership. This infighting has resulted in municipalities becoming dysfunctional, affecting the administration and thus affecting the communities. Will you be able to distinguish how you can pursue the programme without having it affected by political infighting, in particular in more recently dissolved municipalities?

 

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: We have the facts of which municipalities are affected by the phenomenon that you described. By the way, we have former pharmacists and former doctors on this side to help the member with the flu, if she needs any help. [Laughter.] However, the point you make is a valid one: Many municipalities are affected by political dissent, political factions and political conflict. We will approach the relevant political parties and tell them to put members in those municipalities who will exacerbate that situation, who will behave more responsibly, who ensure that they perform their responsibilities in that municipality in a way that sees services actually being delivered.

 

We are not going to be shy to point out to every political party that has a hand in this, formally or informally, that they need to do what is necessary to create a stable environment in municipalities so that they can perform their functions. It is an important point; we are not going to dodge it; we will approach it.

 

Mr K J MILEHAM: Minister, it is interesting to note that all those municipalities are ANC-run municipalities and all the infighting is in the ANC. However, it is no use having a Back to Basics strategy when it is blatantly clear that incompetence and corruption are rewarded and there are no consequences for poor performance.

 

I am going to give you just one example and I would like a direct answer to this question. Why was Khotso Frank Khasu appointed to your department as a chief director after it was found by a court that he had not paid back the R46 million he owed Naledi Local Municipality? What action are you taking in this regard?

 

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Chairperson, hon Mileham is in no position to demand anything of me. He can request it if he wants to but he is in no position to demand anything. Let me make that absolutely clear. We are not little children to be played around with. Hon Khaso has been suspended as of this week; there is a process that we have initiated together. We have given ourselves and him a 30-day period to consider all the relevant information concerning both events that the hon member pointed out, but also others outside of that scope. We need to have a sufficient basis in law. If I could help it, I would have dismissed him yesterday. However, we have laws in this country, we have a Constitution in this country, and we have labour laws in this country which we have to follow. I will ensure that there is due process and if the person concerned is guilty of all the things alleged, he will be out of that department.

 

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Minister, obviously, as we have already stated, we support your Back to Basics programme and we want to see the speedy implementation of this programme. I just want to ask two quick questions, or maybe two in one. Have you identified the municipalities that could be used to benchmark this process against? Do you have any plans as part of Back to Basics to twin or pair municipalities so that you can migrate best practise between the two municipalities? If that is the case, which municipalities are those and when can we start seeing the piloting of such a programme to ensure that Back to Basics comes to life?

 

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Thank you, hon Hlengwa, you are being as constructive as ever. Have we identified municipalities? I can name two: Steve Tshwete Local Municipality and Sarah Baartman District Municipality. There are others as well. What you will also find is that some municipalities do well in x while others do well in y. So, there are those who perform consistently well in all areas; there are those that do particularly well in some areas and I think we have enough information about that at this point. However, there is no reason why we should stop gathering more information that can actually help us.

 

Secondly, in respect of twinning and exchanging best practice, some of that is being done by the departments, some by Salga and some happens informally. I am hoping that in the new year we can do that in a more structured way so that we can give mutual assistance in a way that it will enable municipalities to learn if they want to learn. If they do not want to learn, they will be forced to. Thank you.

 

 

Question 447

 

QUESTION 426

 

 

 

Question 447

The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, yes, we are aware of the intention of the United Nations and of African Union nations in Darfur to investigate the mass rape of about 200 women in the Tabit area. As South Africa, we have been in the forefront of fighting various forms of women abuse, especially in war-torn areas. We believe this is going to be our priority as the department. As you know from the past, the ANC has always been at the forefront of supporting but also actively contributing to various protocols and treaties in the United Nations and also in the region. Thank you.

 

Rev K R J MESHOE: House Chairperson and Hon Minister, to hear that government has been at the forefront of fighting women abuse is something that is pleasant to the ear. However, when one looks at the number of rapes, even in homes, particularly the rape of young children, you find that it is almost on a daily basis. You hear about children as young as three being raped and we do not hear anything from government.

 

I want to know how we can be seen as champions of women, protecting the rights of women and fighting women abuse when there is silence on the part of government when children are abused, raped, if not by teachers then by fellow pupils on school grounds. I think South Africa needs to be a model, starting at home, if we want to be known internationally as leaders in fighting the abuse of women. We need to be heard on a daily basis when rapes are taking place, saying that this is a crime that cannot and will not be tolerated. The voice of government is not being heard, even though this is necessary. Why does it seem to be unimportant? [Time expired.]

 

The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon member, I think the key for us as a country is not just about making a noise. In the country, there have been noises many, many times. We need to say what we are going to do to stop the scourge of violence against women and children. I do not think it is the responsibility of government alone to fight the scourge of violence. I think that is the mistake we have made in the past, when we hope government will be the only one to make a noise.

 

To refer to my predecessor, she has always been at the forefront, making the noise we are looking for, but that did not help us. It is time for action. Let me assure you, hon member, as we launch the 16 Days of Activism on Friday, I hope you are going to participate and support that programme fully and not expect me alone to be screaming and making a noise. You must concretely engage with the programmes going out to our communities; going to where this scourge is happening against women and children. In that way, we will be able to make a difference.

 

I want to challenge you as a religious leader. We need you to be at the forefront of these campaigns because some of the victims of abuse and the children who are dying are members of the various religious congregations, but we never hear you dealing with those issues in the church. It is high time that the church stands up in the fight against the scourge of violence in our country. [Applause.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you, hon Minister. Hon members, before I call the next hon member to ask a supplementary question, may I plead with you that you press the button from the seat you have been allocated. It is really giving me problems when you do not. Hon Matiase, are you there? [Interjections.] Continue, hon member. Please, let us not do that again.

 

Nk N P SONTI: Sihlalo, ngiyabonga Ngqongqoshe ...

 

English:

... as much as we sympathise with the Sudanese women who were raped, in South Africa a woman is sexually assaulted every four minutes. What is the Minister doing to make sure that the scourge of rape is finally dealt with in our country?

 

The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon House Chair, hon member, over the past 20 years, this country has passed various laws dealing with issues of rape and domestic violence such as the Criminal Law (Sexual Offences and Related Matters) Amendment Act. We have the Thuthuzela care centres, which deal with issues of women and children who have been abused. However, it is clear that all those have not sufficiently dealt with these matters. That is why I am saying our focus in the 16 Days of Activism will take a different shape with the hope that all of us in this House will make a difference. Even if I can stand up, hon member, as the Minister ...

 

IsiZulu:

... ngikhulume, ngikabalase noma ngimemeze. Kodwa uma singahlangananga siyisizwe ukulwa nalolu bhubhane oluse zindlini zethu ngoba ...

 

English:

... some of these things are happening in our own homes.

 

IsiZulu:

Thina, kwesinye isikhathi, singomama siyagquma; sifaka izidwaba sigqume amanyala ezeka emizini yethu, inkakhulukazi kubantwana bethu bamantombazane. Kumele sime, singomama kanye nobaba, silwe nalesi sifo esihlasele iNingizimu Afrika. Ngeke nje kube uNgqongqoshe yedwa ozokwazi ukuyiqeda le nkinga esinayo ngoba isuka emakhaya ethu. Ake siqale la esihlala khona, sivikele izingane zethu zamantombazane kanye nezabafana ngoba nazo seziyahlukunyezwe manje. Lesi yisikhathi sokuthi siphakame, sihlangane siyisizwe silwisane nalezi zinkinga. Okunye, nayo le ’mikhuba yokuthwala emakhaya ifuna thina sonke. Ngiyabonga.

 

Mrs D ROBINSON: Hon House Chair ...

 

IsiXhosa:

... ndiyabulela.

 

English:

... the button was pressed but I wanted to make sure that you noticed me.

 

IsiXhosa:

Enkosi.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Proceed, hon member.

 

Mrs D ROBINSON: Minister, while we sympathise with those Sudanese women, last year there were 29 928 reports of sexual offences against women in South Africa, with only 17% of successful convictions. Rape against women in South Africa is not an epidemic, it is a pandemic.

 

Minister, your department missed 40% of your first quarter targets and you could not even provide your second quarter report on time. It is no surprise that you were shy with your reporting when you did not even turn up at that briefing. The development plan was not able to give us any information about the national strategic plan on gender-based violence. Minister, how can you manage the scourge of rape when you cannot even manage your own department? What action are you going to take? Thank you.

 

The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: This is a department that was restructured. I think, hon member, you have to be honest: I am not a magician. We have got to deal with issues in an honest, realistic way. Hon member, you were the one who said this department did not do anything previously. We are relooking that and I have briefed you on what we intend to do.

 

Therefore, if in three months or in six months you judge me as having failed, I think you are not being honest, hon member. You know, I have come to you and told you that we are busy with restructuring. You know the challenges of capacity and finances that we are dealing with in this department. There are no resources at all. Therefore, for this department to succeed, those are some of the issues we need to put in place. We cannot talk about the national strategic plan when we do not even have adequate and proper resources.

 

Therefore, I think you need to help us instead of trying to score points in the House when you know exactly what the situation is. I am pleading with you, hon member. If we really want to make changes in South Africa, let us be honest instead of coming to the House and politicking because we want to please others. Let us do the right thing. You know what the challenges of this department are. I am looking forward to your positive contribution. Help us in making sure that we build this department properly for it to make an impact in this country and to change the situation of women in South Africa. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Dr C P MULDER: House Chair, I rise on a point of order: In her reply the hon Minister referred to the member and said, “I think the hon member is not being honest”. I suggest that is unparliamentary. I think she should withdraw that.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order! Which part do you think is unparliamentary? I need to understand you clearly.

 

Dr C P MULDER: House Chair, I do not think it is parliamentary for a member to suggest that another member is not honest.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order! I will get advice on that. I will come back to you before we finish this session so that we allow others to continue in the meantime.

 

Ms G K TSEKE: House Chair, hon members, especially of the DA, are using this platform to score cheap political points. My follow-up question will relate to the main question, which was asked by Rev Meshoe.

 

The United Nations Security Council Resolution 1325 on Women, Peace and Security calls on all states, the UN and peacekeeping operations to give attention to the specific protection needs of women in conflict and to impunity for war crimes against women. They must also ensure a gender perspective in post-conflict processes, including resettlement and reconstruction, and increase the representation of women at all levels of decision-making in international, regional and national institutions.

 

In this regard, Minister, how should South Africa contribute to the implementation of this resolution and to help ameliorate the impact of armed conflict on all women in the region, seeing that we have a responsibility to protect women in conflict-ridden areas on our continent? Thank you very much. [Applause.]

 

The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Hon member, I just want to say our contribution is not only for women but also for the country. Our Deputy President is active in the Sudan process, trying to find a lasting solution. It does not only contribute to the benefit of women, making sure that they can find peace, but also that they will be able to live in a country where they will be respected as human beings without the violation of their rights. Therefore, we believe that the role we have played in Burundi and Rwanda, making sure that the women in various parts of the continent are able to raise their voice, contributes to shaping their country. That is the role South Africa will continue to play.

 

Also, in Sudan the Deputy President has been involved at different stages but we must also make sure that as women our voices are heard in freeing those women. I know that the women there are meeting with the ANC Women’s League and the ANC to find a lasting solution to their problems. Therefore, there is a lot of dynamic interaction between women in Sudan, making sure that their lives are bettered. Thank you.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you, hon Minister. Hon Minister, with regard to the point of order raised by the hon Mulder, what I have learnt is that we have a problem when someone says that somebody else is lying. We heard you saying, “Let us be honest”, which others might interpret as implying that people are lying. Therefore, may I ask the Minister to withdraw that remark?

 

The MINISTER OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY: Chairperson, it is no big deal; if honest in this world has changed in the dictionary, I withdraw.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Minister, thank you very much for the withdrawal.

 

 

QUESTION 423

 

QUESTION 447

 

 

 

Question 423

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: The question that hon Mthethwa asked is: Do Members of Parliament have a role in the implementation of the Back to Basics programme? The answer is certainly. Let me just quickly cover areas where I think Members of Parliament - regardless of political party affiliation - can contribute.

 

Firstly, members can contribute by strengthening legislation that will ensure that municipalities do the things they are supposed to do, both to enable them on the one hand and to regulate them on the other hand.

 

Secondly, we can contribute in the municipalities themselves and in our constituencies. We can indeed play a nonpartisan role in ensuring that municipalities function; that councillors are trained (if we are trained ourselves); or that they are guided in terms of doing the right thing in the kind of governance processes that should prescribe the way in which municipalities actually work.

 

Thirdly, members can contribute in the area of accountability: Call up the municipalities either to appear before the committees of this House or of the NCOP, and to ensure that some of the questions that some hon members are asking here are in fact canvassed in those structures as well.

 

Fourthly, members can contribute in undertaking visits directly to municipalities and to areas where people should be enjoying basic services. That part of oversight – not just sitting in the Chamber – is a crucial part of the work because what municipalities do or do not do happens on the ground, not in boardrooms. Whether people are happy or not can be discerned at that level as well.

 

Lastly, in the area of intergovernmental relations and co-operative governance, there is much more to be done, both legislatively and in terms of the spirit of work between different spheres of government, to ensure that other spheres of government support municipalities; that the right kind of intergovernmental relations operate in relation to planning and in relation to integrated developments; and in implementing the Integrated Urban Development Framework and many other policies that we hold.

 

What we should not do in the political roles that we play, hon members ... [Interjections.] Chair, I am not sure if anybody is listening now!

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members! Please lower your voices. We need answers; can we at least get the reply? Allow the Minister to respond!

 

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: In case of the political management of municipalities, with due respect, I think we cannot take the view that “a certain political party is the best to run everything in this country”. And if they do not have the opportunity – democratically - to actually run everything in this country, then “no one else can run it well”. They then begin to play a destructive role in municipalities.

 

I believe we need a new maturity in our political system, given the point that hon Mthethwa is making. It is maturity that actually shows that we can collaborate in the interest of certain public issues and in the interest of the public generally. We should not directly or indirectly damage the infrastructure of municipalities – as I indicated earlier - and ultimately use the people whom we say we speak for and represent, making them the victims of our political misbehaviour. Thank you.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you, hon Minister. Hon members, the time for Questions has expired but I will allow follow-up questions to complete this part.

 

Mr E M MTHETHWA: Minister, this programme is very detailed. It addresses a number of items, and you have named them: legislation, accountability, intergovernmental relations, etc. So, any documentation, or a flyer, that you can produce in your department, particularly for Members of Parliament, will be helpful. Such documentation is important for this programme so that MPs may keep it in their constituency offices in the future and so understand these issues. If they do not understand them, I foresee a lot of complications.

 

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Hon Chairperson, we will certainly try do what the hon members requests, within the limits of our financial capability. We will see what we can do.

 

Mr B M BHANGA: Chair, will the Minister take steps to formalise the right of individual Members of Parliament to physically enter municipal entities like water purification plants or sewerage plants in order to fulfil their oversight responsibility? If not; why not? If so; how will you do this? [Interjections.]

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members! Please allow the Minister to respond! There is ... [Interjections.] Thank you! Continue, hon Minister!

 

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Chairperson, there are very simple procedures. The simple procedure is to write a letter, send an e-mail or make a phone call and say, “I would like to visit you on a specific day. Are you available to accommodate me? This is what I need to know.” You must make the arrangement to visit an entity. If hon Bhanga has a particular difficulty, please approach me and I will facilitate it. Thank you.

 

Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Minister, it seems as if you and I are rightfully earning our money today. [Laughter.] I want to go to the broader issue of the role of Members of Parliament. I understand what you have said and I am in full agreement with the role that you envisage. On a greater scale, however, can we not arrive at a point where we concretely consider the issue of constituency-based elections for Members of Parliament? This is to ensure greater accountability and a more direct role for Members of Parliament in local government, particularly when you consider the Van Zyl Slabbert report and all those issues.

 

Let us look at that point so that we avoid this piecemeal approach, where Members of Parliament have to go via somewhere else to adopt constituencies. Let us concretely arrive at the point where constituency-based Members of Parliament are represented in this House. Thank you.

 

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Hon Hlengwa, that is beyond my pedigree! I will refer your question to the relevant authority. Thank you.

 

Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Hon Minister, can you please advise on the processes that you have spoken about in terms of governance and other items. What mechanism would you put in place to ensure that all Members of Parliament, together with members of the provincial legislatures and members of local government, work together, putting aside their party political affiliation to ensure that there is service delivery at all times, and that we represent all of the 52 million people in South Africa? I thank you.

 

The MINISTER OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Chairperson, if I had a magic wand, I would certainly wave it in the interest of that objective. However, with some hon members in this House – I am a very realistic chap – at the rate that they perform some of their responsibilities in this House, I do not think I can ever achieve it.

 

So, I think it is a dream worth having. It is something that those of us that have goodwill and the public interest at heart should nonetheless continue to build: the right kind of relationships; the right kind of values; and the right kind of attitudes towards political co-operation. We are not enemies in this House. We might be contestants for political office but we are not enemies. [Interjections.] Sometimes we cannot draw out the distinction between the two, and that is why we continuously run into problems in this House. Enemies want to kill each other. I do not think we want to kill each other. [Interjections.] We might differ, we might disagree, we might have different views and we might have different approaches, but we do not want to kill each other.

 

When elections are coming, we all claim that we work in the public interest. But we constantly forget public interest when it comes to cheap political point-scoring. [Interjections.] Why? That is the question that we need to ask ourselves. In particular, hon member, you need to cross over to the other side of the House and educate them about what you have said. Thank you.

 

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members, order! The time allocated for Questions has expired, as I said. The outstanding replies that are received will be printed in Hansard. We now come to Notices of Motion.

 

 

 

 

NOTICE OF MOTION

 

QUESTIONS

 

 

 

 

NOTICES OF MOTION

 

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon House Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move on behalf of the NFP:

 

That the House‑

 

1. deliberates the serious challenges faced by our citizens in respect of the high crime rate and that the SA Police Service, SAPS, in eThekwini, together with the provincial department, in a massive raid conducted in Durban arrested 830 of the most wanted criminals

 

1. also deliberates, in light of this great success, on the possibility of declaring one week in the South African calendar as a Crime–Free South Africa Week, engage the services of SAPS, SA National Defence Force, security organisations, policing forums, intelligence department, private business, together with members of this House, in a joint effort to eradicate crime in South Africa, ensuring a free and safe South Africa for our citizens.

 

 

 

 

 

Ms L M MASEKO

 

Mr A M SHAIK EMAM

 

 

 

 

Ms L M MASEKO: Hon House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the importance of allocating 1,5% of GDP to science and technology for research purposes.

 

 

 

Mr X MABASA

 

Ms L M MASEKO

 

 

 

 

Mr X MABASA: Hon House Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates that co-operatives are appropriate tools not only in assisting in the creation of wealth but also in the fair distribution of wealth, and that all departments and private sectors should contribute towards this objective.

 

 

Mr W HORN

 

Mr X MABASA

 

 

 

 

Mr W HORN: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House debates the effect of the ANC’s legislative agenda in deterring investment, retarding economic growth and actively destroying jobs and the effect that this has on the prospect of ever addressing unemployment and poverty.

 

Mr A M MUDAU

 

Mr W HORN

 

 

 

 

Mr A M MUDAU: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates ways to stabilise the labour environment, improving dispute resolution and shop-floor relations.

 

 

Mr M WATERS

 

Mr A M MUDAU

 

 

 

 

Mr M WATERS: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House debates the overcrowding at primary schools in the Ekurhuleni North district.

 

 

 

 

Mr B A RADEBE

 

Mr M WATERS

 

 

 

 

Mr B A RADEBE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That House debates the correlation between the high rates of racist incidents in the Western Cape and the Western Cape premier’s calling South Africans foreigners – those who come to the Western Cape.

 

I thank you. [Interjections.]

 

Mr M S BOOI

 

Mr B A RADEBE

 

 

 

 

Mr M S BOOI: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates why the Cape Metro Police in the Western Cape is not being deployed on the Cape Flats, where the situation regarding gangsterism and violence is tense.

 

 

Ms P S KEKANA

 

Mr M S BOOI

 

 

 

 

Ms P S KEKANA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the empowerment of people with disabilities, in order to reduce the inequality and poverty affecting them.

 

 

Ms A MATSHOBENI

 

Ms P S KEKANA

 

 

 

Ms A MATSHOBENI: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

 

That the House debates the state of the country’s agricultural extension services and their importance in driving a comprehensive agrarian reform programme.

 

 

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION

 

Ms A MATSHOBENI

 

 

 

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House‑

 

1. notes that imitation is the best form of flattery ... [Interjections.] [Applause.] ... and congratulates the ANC on finally catching up to the DA;

 

1. further notes that we look forward to the filibustering, that our Red Bulls are ready and that we will be here all night. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

 

 

 

 

Mr B T BONGO

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION

 

 

 

 

Mr B T BONGO: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the contribution made by His Excellency, President Zuma, to the struggle of our people in South Africa and on the continent.

 

 

 

Ms T MAHAMBEHLALA

 

Mr B T BONGO

 

 

 

 

Ms T MAHAMBEHLALA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the review of regulations and standards for small and medium-sized enterprises.

 

 

 

 

Mr T W MHLONGO

 

Ms T MAHAMBEHLALA

 

 

 

 

Mr T W MHLONGO: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House debates the fact that our brothers and sisters in South Africa will not realise the formalisation of informal settlements under the ANC government.

 

 

 

Ms L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE

 

Mr T W MHLONGO

 

 

 

 

Ms L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House‑

 

1. debates the critical need for a developmental price to radically transform our economy and promote manufacturing and job creation;

 

1. further debates what measure should be developed and put in place to encourage support from all stakeholders in the interest of growing an inclusive economy and concretising the vision of the National Development Plan.

 

 

 

 

Ms M L DUNJWA

 

 

Ms L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE

 

 

 

 

Ms M L DUNJWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the negative impact of rating agencies on the South African economy.

 

 

 

 

Ms D Z RANTHO

 

Ms M L DUNJWA

 

 

 

 

Ms D Z RANTHO: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the role of the Industrial Development Corporation in the promotion of new entrepreneurs in our country.

 

 

 

Mr M A MNCWANGO

 

Ms D Z RANTHO

 

 

 

 

Mr M A MNCWANGO: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

 

That the House debates the plight of small stock farmers whose livestock has been decimated by the continued drought in provinces such as KwaZulu-Natal and the Eastern Cape.

 

 

 

Mr N P KHOZA

 

Mr M A MNCWANGO

 

 

 

 

Mr N P KHOZA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

 

That the House, this being the 50th year since the publication of the book The Peasants’ Revolt by that gallant leader of the liberation of our people, Govan Mbeki, debates the road thus far travelled in honour of Govan Mbeki and all those he wrote about who revolted against colonial and apartheid land dispossession.

 

Mr M BAGRAIM

 

Mr N P KHOZA

 

 

 

 

Mr M BAGRAIM: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House debates the lack of progress of the Eminent Persons Group, based on the data it has received.

 

 

 

 

Ms Y N PHOSA

 

Mr M BAGRAIM

 

 

 

 

Ms Y N PHOSA: Mohl Motlatšamodulasetulo [Hon Deputy Speaker], I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the abuse of freedom of speech by members of this House.

 

[Interjections.]

 

 

Mr S G MMUSI

 

Ms Y N PHOSA

 

 

 

Setswana

Rre S G MMUSI: Motlotlegi Motlatsa Mmusakgotla, mo boemong jwa ANC, ke tsitsinya gore Ntlo ena mo kokwanong bosetšhaba e e latelang, e ngangisane kgotsa e ganetsane gore re ka dirisana mmogo jang gore Ntlo e, e boelwe ke seriti le serodumo sa yona se se tsweletseng pele go latlhega ka lebelo lo lo boitshegang. Ke a leboga.

 

 

 

Mr P G ATKINSON

 

Mr S G MMUSI

 

 

 

 

Mr P G ATKINSON: Hon Chairperson, Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House debates the provision of 24-hour health facilities for the people of Lenasia in Gauteng and to enquire what caused the delay in providing proper hospital facilities to the people in that area.

 

[Interjections.]

Mr M S MBATHA: Hon Deputy Speaker, can you speak to that thing?

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hon member. Hon Mafu, please continue.

 

Ms N N MAFU: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates how the national Department of Human Settlements can assist the Western Cape government to build more houses for the citizens of South Africa who reside in this province.

 

Thank you. [Applause.]

 

 

Mr M C MASINA

 

Ms N N MAFU

 

 

 

 

Mr M C MASINA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House discusses the issue of controlling the sale of junk food, which is endangering the health of our nation and leads to malnutrition or obesity, which leads to diabetes.

 

Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Mrs M R M MOTHAPO

 

Mr M C MASINA

 

 

Mrs M R M MOTHAPO: Ke a leboga Motlotlegi Motlatsammusakgotla. [Thank you, hon Deputy Chairperson.] I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the involvement of parents, teachers and learners of school governing bodies in the development of school safety plans to ensure that all learners are and feel safe.

 

 

 

Mr J J McGLUWA

 

Mrs M R M MOTHAPO

 

 

Mr J J MCGLUWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House-

 

1. debates the role and functions of the Speaker, the Deputy Speaker, House Chairpersons and the effect their decisions has on Parliament; and

 

1. further debates how the Western Cape government can assist in this regard.

 

I thank you. [Applause.]

 

Ms N K BILANKULU

 

Mr J J MC GLUWA

 

 

 

 

Xitsonga:

Ms N K BILANKULU: Xandla xa Xipikara, ndzi yima ndzi nyika xitiviso xa leswaku eka ntshamo wa Yindlu wa siku leri nga ta landzela ndzi ta susumeta hi ku yimela vandla ra ANC:

 

Leswaku Yindlu yi burisana kumbe ku kanerisana hi swinawanawana swa matikhomele swa miharihari leswi endliwaka hi vandla ro kaneta.

 

Ndza susumeta. [Va phokotela.]

 

Mr V G SMITH
Ms N K BILANKULU

 

 

 

 

English:

Mr V G SMITH: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the negative effect on society that results from the practice of sentencing first-time petty crime offenders to incarceration in an already overcrowded facility.

 

 

Ms D ROBINSON

 

Mr V G SMITH

 

 

 

 

Ms D ROBINSON: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House debates what the purpose was of the SA Social Security Agency, Sassa, handing out food parcels in Atlantis today and on what basis only certain people were notified and invited to participate.

 

 

Ms N P SONTI

 

Ms D ROBINSON

 

 

 

 

IsiXhosa: 17:27:58

Nksz N P SONTI: Sekela Somlomo, egameni le-EFF ndiphakamisa ukuba kwindibano elandelayo:

Le Ndlu yowiso-mthetho-

1. ixoxe ngabantu abasebenzela umasipala nokuthengisa kwabo izinto zikarhulumente endaweni yokuba bazinike abantu abafanelekileyo;
2. iqaphele ukuba eMarikana izindlu zangasese ziyathengiswa zithengiselwa abafiki-namthwalo. Enkosi.

 

 

 

 

Ms D VAN DER WALT

 

Ms N P SONTI

 

 

 

English:

Ms D VAN DER WALT: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House debates the 0% deaths per toilet in the Western Cape compared to the several sad instances where learners fell into pit toilet at schools in Limpopo province. [Applause.]

 

 

Mr A F MADELLA

 

Ms D VAN DER WALT

 

 

 

 

Mr A F MADELLA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the failures of the DA-controlled Thee Waters Kloof Municipality in providing adequate service delivery with specific reference to the provision of housing, sanitation and roads to the oldest informal settlement in Grabouw, namely Waterworks, as well as the communities of Beverly Hills and Pineview.

 

Mr J CRONIN

 

Mr A F MADELLA

 

 

 

 

Mr J CRONIN: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House-

 

1. debates what lessons can be learned from other democracies on how recalcitrant members are forcibly removed when refusing to observe the rulings of Speakers;

 

1. also debates a study of what happens in the US Congress where senators can and are removed forcibly for recalcitrance; and

 

1. further notes that in Canada, as a recent episode showed, the serjeant-at-arms is armed.

 

 

Mr D W MCPHERSON

 

Mr J CRONIN

 

 

 

 

Mr D W McPHERSON: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the need for Minister Rob Davies to provide the South African economy with an apology for destroying it with outrageous legislation that has cost this economy 128 000 jobs just in the manufacturing sector since 2009 – what a good story to tell.

 

 

Ms R N CAPA

 

Mr M C PHERSON

 

 

 

 

Ms R N CAPA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the role played by women in South Africa in the struggle for liberating this country, including the Speaker of this House, hon Mbete, Nkosazana Zuma and many more - I cannot finish the list now.

 

Thank you. [Applause.]

 

Ms D R TSOTETSI

 

Ms R N CAPA

 

 

 

 

Ms D R TSOTETSI: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates how the ANC made it possible for everyone in the country to choose the political home of their choice, while the previous regime made it a criminal offense to the extent of causing harm to individuals, sometimes fatal.

 

Mr M S MBATHA

 

Ms D R TSOTETSI

 

 

 

 

Mr M S MBATHA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

 

That the House debates the state of research and development in Africa, with specific focus on South Africa and how the resources could be pulled together for the continent and its organs in research.

 

Ms Z JONGBLOED

 

Mr M S MBATHA

 

 

 

 

Ms Z JONGBLOED: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House debates the slow progress made with regard to the completion of the psychiatric hospital in Kimberley.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon member at the back, you may proceed. Yes, the hon member who is speaking here. [Interjections.] No, the hon member on her feet.

 

Ms Z JONGBLOED

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER

 

 

 

 

Ms Z JONGBLOED: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House debates the development challenges faced by municipalities.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, let me alert you. If I have pointed you out before, you are going to have to wait until the last one before you get your second chance. You must just know that. I want to ensure that every member in the House who has a hand up is going to do that for purposes of fairness. Those who want second bites will do it later on.

Mr T E MULAUDZI

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER

 

 

 

Tshivenda:

Vho T E MULAUDZI: Muhulisei Mufarisa Mulangadzulo,.ndi khou ṋea nḓivhado ya uri kha dzulo ḽitevhelaho, ndi ḓo ṋea ḽikumedzwa nga fhasi ha vhurangeli ha EFF:

 

Uri Nnḓu i ambe nga ha u fhaṱiwa ha mimoḽo mahayani na zwikolobulasi zwashu, uri iyi mimoḽo i no khou ḓa i khou ḓo thusa vhoramabindu vhaṱuku kana i khou ḓa u vha khokhovhedza uri vha si tsha dovha vha vuwa naa, hu vhe u hula ha vhopfumaho vhane vha vha vhatshena ngauri na dzirennde na diphosithi dza u dzhena hafho mimoḽoni dzi vha dzi khou konḓela vho ramabindu vhaṱuku. Ndaa!

 

 

Mr T J BONHOMME

 

Mr T E MULAUDZI

 

 

 

 

English:

Mr T J BONHOMME: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That Parliament discusses the disrespect shown by the official opposition to the democratically elected Speaker of Parliament while Parliament is in session.

 

Ms D CARTER

 

Mr T J BONHOMME

 

 

 

 

Ms D CARTER: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of Cope:

 

That the House debates Rule 316 of the Rules book; that is “lapsing of business on last sitting day of annual session or term of Assembly when Assembly is dissolved”.

 

 

Mr A G WHITFIELD

 

Ms D CARTER

 

 

 

Mr A G WHITFIELD: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House debates how the ANC’s cancerous culture of corruption, cronyism and cadre deployment in Nelson Mandela Bay is undermining service delivery and killing jobs in that metro.

 

 

Mr A M FIGLAN

 

Mr A G WHITFIELD

 

 

 

 

Mr A M FIGLAN: Mr Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House debates the alarming collaboration between municipal officials and ANC politicians in looting these municipalities.

 

 

Mr I MOSALA

 

Mr A M FIGLAN

 

 

 

 

Mr I MOSALA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the DA’s intellectual bankruptcy and robotic leadership as was passed on by Gareth van Onselen in the Daily Maverick.

 

 

Ms C SEPTEMBER

 

Mr I MOSALA

 

 

 

 

Ms C SEPTEMBER: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the safety of the police against the DA when it comes in to the National Assembly. [Applause.]

 

 

Mr R A LEES

 

Ms C SEPTEMBER

 

 

 

 

Mr R A LEES: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House notes the crippling delay in the SA Police Service, SAPS, vehicle repairs in the Pietermaritzburg police workshop and debates the need and methodology to get the more than 120 decrepit vehicles mobile in order to deal effectively with crime in KwaZulu-Natal’s capital city.

 

Mr E K SIWELA

 

Mr R A LEES

 

 

 

 

Mr E K SIWELA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House –

1. debates the life and time of President Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela; and

 

1. notes that in two weeks’ time, on 5 December, this year we will mark exactly a year since he passed on.

Ms P C NGWENYA-MABILA
Mr E K SIWELA

 

 

 

 

Ms P C NGWENYA-MABILA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the improvement made by the ANC government in the lives of rural people.

 

 

Mr M H HOOSEN

 

Ms P C NGWENYA-MABILA

 

 

 

 

Mr M H HOOSEN: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House debates the disappearance of President Jacob Zuma and considers offering a reward to any person who is able to deliver him to answer questions. [Applause.] [Laughter.]

 

 

Ms M S KHAWULA

 

Mr M H HOOSEN

 

 

 

 

IsiZulu: 17:39:14

Nk M S KHAWULA: Sihlalo ngiphakamisa egameni le-EFF ukuthi ngesikhathi esilandelayo sokuhlala kwale Ndlu:

 

Le Ndlu ikhulume ngabantu bahlala kulezi zindlu okuthiwa olindela, asebehlale iminyaka eminingi kusukela ngonyaka wezi-2009 bengayinikezwa imixhaso ngenxa yokuthi abanayo imali yokugwazela amakhansela akhongolose.

 

Ngiyabonga

 

Ms C C SEPTEMBER
Mr M S KHAWULA

 

 

 

 

Ms C C SEPTEMBER: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the proposal of establishing a multiparty youth caucus. This body of young people in Parliament should look into how best we can co-ordinate the interest of young people. The youth agenda should not only be left for Youth Month but it should consume our programme every month.

 

Ms H H MALGAS

 

Ms C C SEPTEMBER

 

 

 

 

Ms H H MALGAS: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates corruption by the DA in the Western Cape on the final report by the Public Protector, Thuli Madonsela; the report named “Yes, we made a mistake”.

 

 

Ms D KOHLER-BARNARD

 

Ms H H MALGAS

 

 

 

 

Ms D KOHLER-BARNARD: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House debates police brutality, specifically the SAPS members standing by while citizens are being beaten to death in acts of vigilantism and specifically whether or not it is their political masters who are instructing the SAPS members in the Western Cape to do that.

 

Ms N T NOVEMBER

 

Ms D KOHLER-BARNARD

 

 

 

 

Ms N T NOVEMBER: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the condition of children with disabilities in South Africa.

 

 

Ms A M DREYER

 

Ms N T NOVEMBER

 

 

 

 

Ms A M DREYER: Mr Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House debates the quality of responses by members of the executive to oral questions from the opposition.

 

 

Ms M R MORUTOA

 

Ms A M DREYER

 

 

 

 

Ms M R MORUTOA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the importance of sport and recreation as a wellness exercise and promote unity among the hon members and staff.

 

 

Ms M L DUNJWA

 

Ms M R MORUTOA

 

 

 

 

IsiXhosa: 17:42:37

Nks M L DUNJWA: Sekela Somlomo ohloniphekileyo, egameni le-ANC, ndinqwenela ukuba kwindibano yayo elandelayo

 

Le Ndlu yoWiso-mthetho-

ixoxe ngobuhlanga obugqithisileyo obenzeke kwiphondo laseNtshona Koloni bokuba umntwana womntu omhlophe antsontsele kwintloko yomntu omnyama. Enkosi.

 

 

Dr W G JAMES

 

Ms M L DUNJWA

 

 

 

 

English:

Dr W G JAMES: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House debates the disappearance of hundreds of millions of rand in mining royalties due to the Bapo ba Mogale community from a bank account controlled by the ANC provincial government.

 

 

Mr D J STUBBE

 

Dr W G JAMES

 

 

 

 

Mr D J STUBBE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House debates how the ANC abuses legislative platforms to misrepresent the most successful provincial government, the DA-led Western Cape government, rather than celebrating its unparalleled successes in service delivery to the poor and vulnerable.

 

 

Mr F Z MAJOLA

 

Mr D J STUBBE

 

 

 

 

Mr F Z MAJOLA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the political morality of members of the DA passing draft notices of motion to members of the EFF … [Applause.] [Laughter.] …suggesting that members of the EFF cannot think for themselves, which is racist in the extreme. [Applause.] [Laughter.]

 

Mr M JOHNSON
Mr F Z MAJOLA

 

 

 

 

Mr M JOHNSON: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the continued business operations of a company called Filcon, a company declared insolvent in the United Kingdom, but earning thus far R900 million through Cape Town and the Western Cape government tender systems.

 

Mr M U KALAKO

 

Mr M JOHNSON

 

 

Mr M U KALAKO: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the uneven distribution of resources and services by the City of Cape Town in favour of white affluent suburbs and the marginalisation of black townships.

 

 

Mr A R MCLOUGHLIN

 

Mr M U KALAKO

 

 

 

 

Mr A R MCLOUGHLIN: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the desirability of marketing Morningside in the eThekwini metro as a tourist alternative to Lourdes, France, given the proven and miraculous properties of its municipal water supply, which has restored Schabir Shaik to an unprecedented full recovery.

 

 

Mr D GEORGE

 

Mr A R MCLOUGHLIN

 

 

 

 

Mr D GEORGE: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the Deputy President’s misunderstanding of the multiparty agreement made yesterday, 18 November 2014.

 

 

 

Ms N R MASHABELA

 

Mr D GEORGE

 

 

 

 

Ms N R MASHABELA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates and discusses the quality of speeches delivered from the respected podium of the National Assembly, especially by senior members of this Assembly.

 

 

Mr P G MOTEKA

 

Ms N R MASHABELA

 

 

Sepedi:

Mr P G MOTEKA: MothušaSpikara, ke ema ke šišinya gore ka tulo ye e latelago:

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon member there at the back, take your seat please. You cannot just be hanging around like that.

 

Sepedi:

Mna P G MOTEKA: Ke ema ke šišinya gore ka tulo ye e latelago:

Ntlo ye e:

 

bontšhane ka tlhompho le tekatekano ya magoši kamoka a Afrika Borwa gobane magoši ga a sa hlompšwa go swana le maloba. Taba ye e bonagetše kudu maloba ge go be go bolokwa kgoši Makgeru a bolokwa kua Bopedi Ga-Mogašwa. Poloko ya gagwe ebe e sa bontšhe gore ke ya kgoši. Ga ya fiwa tlhompho ya go swana le tše re hlwago re di bona.

 

Moh M A MOLEBATSI

 

Mr P G MOTEKA

 

 

 

 

Setswana:

Moh M A MOLEBATSI: Motlatsammusakgotla, ke tshitsinya mo boemong jwa ANC gore fa Ntlolehalahala e, e nna gape –

 

e ngangisane ka tshireletso ya kwa magaeng le karolo ya mafapha a a dirisang tshireletso ya diforamo tsa selegae.

 

 

 

Ms M R MORUTOA

 

Moh M A MOLEBATSI

 

 

 

 

Ms M R MORUTOA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the escalating gender violence, specifically focusing its attention on utilising all 365 days to give particular attention to the rural areas, and that, in the main, culture and religion should be given specific focus.

 

Mr M S MABIKA

 

Ms M R MORUTOA

 

 

 

 

isiZulu:

Mr M S MABIKA: Phini likaSihlalo, ngokuhlala kwale Ndlu okulandelayo, egameni le-NFP, ngiyakuphakamisa ukuthi:

Le Ndlu ikhulume ngokuzenza unontandakubukwa kukaNgqongqoshe WesiFundazwe wezeMfundo KwaZulu-Natali ngokuya kwabezindaba ayothi kuhamba kahle ukuhanjiswa kwezincwadi ezikoleni kodwa kube kunezikole ezingakazitholi izimali zokuthenga nabahlinzeki ngohlelo lwezokudla bengakakhokhelwa.

 

Ms V VAN DYK

 

Mr M S MABIKA

 

 

 

Ms V VAN DYK: Adjunkspeaker, ek gee hiermee kennis dat by die volgende sitting van die Huis ek ’n mosie sal voorstel:

 

Dat die Huis—

 

1. kennis neem van die Namakwaland kiesafdeling, spesifiek Khai-Ma Munisipaliteit en die natuurramp in Pella op 24 Oktober waar meer as 100 huishoudings dakloos gelaat is;

 

1. verder kennis neem in watter mate die regering hulp verleen en of alle inwoners oor dieselfde kam geskeer word rondom hulpverlening;

 

1. ook kennis neem van die ernstige water probleem in Onseepkans, waar die kanaal tans weer droog is en waar die 27 groepe van ses opkomende boere veral die meeste benadeel word; en

 

1.  verneem dat die Weermag onlangs water aan die gemeenskappe moes aanry wat vir drie weke sonder water was, maar hoe boer jy sonder water?

 

 

Me J L FUBBS

 

Ms V VAN DYK

 

 

 

 

Ms J L FUBBS: Deputy Speaker, on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

            That the House-

1. discuss the imperative of bringing all stakeholders together to acknowledge the need for a more developmental approach to scrap metal, which uses about 50% less energy than iron ore to make steel.
2. further to support the work being undertaken by the Departments of Trade and Industry and Economic Development to address the challenges posed by bulk exportation of scrap metal and to tighten the legislation to prevent the buying of illegally obtained scrap metal.

 

 

Ms L M MASEKO

 

Ms J L FUBBS

 

 

 

 

Ms L M MASEKO: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the mobilisation of communities in order to play a positive role in offender reintegration.

 

 

 

Mr H C C KRÜGER

 

Ms J L FUBBS

 

 

 

 

Mr H C C KRÜGER: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the noncompliance of the Minister of Water and Sanitation, Minister Mokonyane in attending to the 104 mine water licences before 24 October 2014 as she promised.

 

Mr D W MCPHERSON

 

Mr H C C KRÜGER

 

 

 

 

Mr D W MCPHERSON: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House-

1. debates the imprisonment of chickens in Nkandla and the terrible conditions they are subjected to, including their wellbeing; and
2. a possible amnesty, which they should be able to apply for after a life of being trapped with Number One.

 

Mr A M MUDAU

 

Mr D W MCPHERSON

 

 

 

 

Mr A M MUDAU: Muhulisei Mufarisa Mulangadzulo, ndo vha ndi khou humbela zwauri Nndu iyi tshifhinga tshidaho rine sa dzangano la ANC:

 

Zwauri ri ambe nga nndwa ye ya vha hone fhano Nduni ye ya itwa nga vhatshena vha DA vha tshi khou lwa na mapholisa. Ri dovhe habe ri ambe nga ndila ine muvhuso wa kale wa tshishaushau wo dinaho ngayo vhathu vha hashu fhano kha la Afrika Tshipembe.

 

Mr B M MKONGI

 

Mr A M MUDAU

 

 

 

 

Mr B M MKONGI: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House discusses how long platoons wearing overalls and gumboots should wait in the government queue to be regarded as the legitimate government in waiting.

 

Mr D J MAYNIER

 

Mr B M MKONGI

 

 

 

 

Mr D J MAYNIER: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

(1)        That the House debates the fact that for nearly six months the Minister of Defence has refused to hand over documents relevant to an audit of the hon Lindiwe Sisulu’s reported 203 flights on an ultra luxury Gulfstream executive jet, and

 

(2)        debates the effects of a diet of chicken and beef on the Minister as a result of being forced to fly on South African Airways.

 

The CHIEF WHP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: Is the member prepared to take a breathalyzer test? [Interjections.]

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Yes, Deputy Speaker, on a point of order - the first one was not a point of order - that is actually unparliamentary. However, when the hon Maynier was speaking, the hon Minister Lindiwe Sisulu flipped him a Floyd and used the middle-finger gesture in the House. [Interjections.] I submit to you that it is unparliamentary. We have already had rulings in this regard and she must withdraw it. [Interjections.]

 

The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Deputy Speaker, I have seen them use the middle finger. I was just imitating them. They have been doing this the whole afternoon. [Interjections.]

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, I saw exactly what the Minister did. It does not become her to be dishonest in this House and not tell the truth about what she was doing. I think she should do the honourable thing and withdraw the gesture, for her own sake.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, we have warned you about the use of gestures in this House, and now I am faced with this situation. I did not see the gesture, so I must rely on you. I have asked her and the Minister said... [Interjections.] What? Did you see her response? [Interjections.] Hon members, can we please be careful with the use of gestures. I suggest we do not do that at all. If there is a way of verifying if that gesture was made, we would be able to move on that swiftly to ensure that it does not happen again. Hon Minister, I hope you did not do that.

 

The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Deputy Speaker, I suggest you consult Hansard or the recordings. [Interjections.] It is exactly what they did.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, can we proceed and not do that anymore? [Interjections.] Hon members, can we proceed? [Interjections.] Yes, hon Chief Whip?

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, I am happy to proceed, but I want you to please get the Hansard, or get the equipment, as well as any pictures that were taken from the gallery, and I think the Minister is going to be very embarrassed in this House come the new year. [Interjections.]

 

 

Ms L A MNGANGA-GCABASHE

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION

 

 

Ms L A MNGANGA-GCABASHE: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the danger of the oka pipe, also known as the hubbly bubbly, which causes severe damage to kids in our country and the use of which is just as severe as substance abuse.

 

 

 

Mr G R KRUMBOCK

 

Ms L A MNGANGA-GCABASHE:

 

 

 

Mr G R KRUMBOCK: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the dismal failure of the ANC government to fulfil its constitutional mandate to deliver on the imperative to provide adequate provision of fresh water to every citizen, despite having had 20 years within which to do so.

 

 

 

Mnr H C C KRÜGER

 

Mr G R KRUMBOCK

 

 

Afrikaans:

Mnr H C C KRÜGER: Adjunkspeaker, by die volgende sitting van die Huis sal ek voorstel:

 

Dat die Huis die huidige regering se onvermoë om armoede te beveg in die landelike munisipaliteite, naamlik Thembisile Hani en Dr J S Moroka in Mpumalanga, debatteer.

 

 

Dr Z LUYENGE

 

Mnr H C C KRÜGER

 

 

English:

Dr Z LUYENGE: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the importance of relocating the budget allocation for sport infrastructure from the Municipal Infrastructure Grant to the Department of Sport and Recreation or an entity that will seek to ensure that sport facilities are developed in the country.

 

 

Ms D P MAGADZI

 

Dr Z LUYENGE

 

 

 

Ms D P MAGADZI: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the failure of the DA government in the Western Cape to create jobs from the period of July to September, wherein 11 000 jobs were lost. [Interjections.]

 

 

Ms M O MATSHOBA

 

Ms D P MAGADZI

 

 

Ms M O MATSHOBA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the behaviour of some of the opposition members, particularly in this fifth term.

 

 

 

Mr G MACKAY

 

Ms M O MATSHOBA

 

 

Mr G MACKAY: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates how the thug-like behaviour of the two Lindiwes is undermining the integrity of this House. [Applause.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, you know you are not supposed to call members by name. You know that. We do not have to be reminded of that.

 

Mr G MACKAY: Chair, I referred to the “two Lindiwes”. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, do what you know you should do.

 

Mr G MACKAY: Deputy Speaker, should I refer to the “two hon Lindiwes”, or what is the correct form?

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Do you not know what the Rules say, hon member? Do not ask me that. You know what the Rules state. Just say it.

 

Mr G MACKAY: I withdraw.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you, hon member.

 

The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: You have just ruled that gestures are not allowed. Why is that batty hon Maynier allowed to do that? That is a gesture that is batty, absolutely batty, and it should not be allowed. [Interjections.]

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: We know that the word “batty” is meant to infer that the hon Maynier is mad or has a mental disability. [Laughter.] That is clearly unparliamentary, and if the Minister wants to discuss what an inappropriate gesture is, I am quite happy to take her outside and give her some demonstrations. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Steenhuisen, you are a Chief Whip, and so your language and your suggestion... [Interjections.] No, no, no! Please, I am suggesting to you that you stay within the boundaries. [Interjections.] You see, hon members, we object to offensive language. We object to problematic gestures in the House. It is wrong even to suggest the things that you are suggesting here. It is incorrect for you to do that, hon Chief Whip.

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, it is precisely because it is inappropriate to make inappropriate gestures in the House that I am offering to exit the House.

 

Ms N T NOVEMBER: Sit! Sit, Steenhuisen!

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Who is that now? [Interjections.] Who is that?

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: It was the hon November, there at the back, Deputy Speaker. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, you ... [Interjections.] Yes, hon member?

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, because I have a lot more dignity than the hon Minister, I will withdraw. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, it is 18:00. I realise that it is becoming difficult to maintain order. I suggest that you do not deteriorate into becoming even more offensive. I am going to have to take stringent measures against offensive language and/or gestures so that I am not taken for granted. It is wrong for you to undermine the authority of the Chair, and it is incorrect to continue to do that. Otherwise, this is no longer a people’s tribunal; this is no longer a House for debate and discussion of issues. Please do not do that.
 

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Deputy Speaker, can you also close the bar, please? [Laughter.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon Mbalula, you are not supposed to speak when you are not recognised.

 

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: I withdraw! [Interjections.]

 

 

 

Mr J L MAHLANGU

 

 

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION

 

 

 

Mr J L MAHLANGU: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the levels of intolerance and racism in the Western Cape and whether the national government can do anything about it, as well as the arrogance of the DA and the manner in which they undermine the authority of the Speaker and the presiding officers in the House. [Interjections.]

 

 

Ms A MATSHOBENI

 

Mr J L MAHLANGU

 

 

 

Ms A MATSHOBENI: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the quality of negotiation versus physical fighting and how workshops can be organised for members of the executive who still believe in the power of physical fighting. [Interjections.]

 

 

 

Mr M JOHNSON

 

Ms A MATSHOBENI

 

 

 

Mr M JOHNSON: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the negative impact of air pollution, which is caused by industry in South Africa, on the vulnerable, the poor, and people living in poverty.

 

 

 

Mr M A PLOUAMMA

 

Mr M JOHNSON

 

 

 

Mr M A PLOUAMMA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates inviting traditional healers to check whether the hon members are not bewitched or suffering from mental conditions, causing them to forget the real reason they are here, and also to create a Rule that when this naivety starts, Agang should be excused.

 

 

 

Mr S C MNCWABE

 

Mr M A PLOUAMMA

 

Mr S C MNCWABE: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House discusses the continuous cold war.

 

 

Ms M R SHINN

 

Mr S C MNCWABE

 

 

 

 

Ms M R SHINN: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates how successive ANC presidents silenced the Kampepe report on the validity of the 2002 Zimbabwe presidential elections and whether their subversion of democracy is grounds for a case to be lodged with the International Court.

 

Ms J STEENKAMP

 

Ms M R SHINN

 

 

 

Ms J STEENKAMP: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the use of the emergency medical helicopter services, the tender process and the benefits versus the cost to the community they should serve.

 

 

Mr S LUZIPO

 

Ms J STEENKAMP

 

 

 

 

Mr S LUZIPO: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the house debates the positive impact the ANC government’s policies have had on the poor in that, according to a World Bank report, more than 3,6 million has been lifted out of poverty and the South African government has halved the number of poor people.

 

 

Mr A MASONDO

 

Mr S LUZIPO

 

 

 

 

Mr A MASONDO: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House -

 

1. debates that the Integrated Development Plan, the IDP, was tabled by hon Minister Pravin Gordhan through a statement presented to this House yesterday for consideration and debate;

 

1. notes that it is estimated that by 2050, more than 80% of South Africans will be residing in cities and towns, or similar urban centres;

 

1. understands that this phenomenon of urbanisation and migration is a global experience …

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Hon Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: That is not a motion.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I have not stopped you from saying what you have been saying but I am now going to suggest to you that you wait until I rule whether it is a motion or not.

 

Mr N A MASONDO: But this matter has been a subject for discussion at various international for a, both by various states and by civil society organisations! [Interjections.] I will just read the rest:

 

1. sets aside enough time to table and discuss urbanisation and migration;

 

1. encourages other spheres of government, such as provincial and local legislatures, to consider and discuss this matter; and

 

1. suggests that government and the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, as well as sectoral departments, should consider developing a detailed plan in anticipation of this specific complex challenge.

 

 

Mr P G ATKINSON

 

Mr N A MASONDO

 

 

 

 

Mr P G ATKINSON: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the reasons that the highest number of bucket toilets in the whole country is to be found in the ANC-led Mangaung Metro Municipality, which is also the birthplace of the ANC.

 

 

Mr D L TWALA

 

Mr P G ATKINSON

 

 

 

 

Mr D L TWALA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the repatriation of the remains of MK combatants who perished in an ambush in 25 December 1983 in Petro Nzinga in Angola.

 

 

Ms P C NGWENYA-MABILA

 

Mr D L TWALA

 

 

 

 

Ms P C NGWENYA-MABILA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the vast gap between the rich and the poor and further evaluates if most capitalists who benefit from this country do plough back or invest in other countries for reasons of hating the government of the people.

 

 

Mr A F MADELLA

 

Ms P C NGWENYA-MABILA

 

 

 

 

Mr A F MADELLA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the positive impact of the creation of the industrial economic zones in South Africa on the creation of jobs and economic growth through beneficiation, among others.

 

Ms S J NKOMO

 

Mr A F MADELLA

 

 

 

Ms S J NKOMO: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates ways and means to measure how Members of Parliament have contributed to the poorest of poor and the people in need during the oncoming festive season.

 

 

Ms R N CAPA

 

Ms NKOMO

 

 

 

 

Ms R N CAPA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the House I shall move:

 

That the house debates the wasteful expenditure incurred by taxpayers for the payment of salaries for members of the DA and EFF that exist only to raise objections in this House instead of coming up with legislation that will change the plight of our people.

 

 

Mr B M BHANGA

 

Ms R N CAPA

 

 

 

 

IsiXhosa:

Mnu B M BHANGA: Sekela Somlomo, ndenza isaziso sokuba, xa le Ndlu ihlala kwakhona, ndiza kwenza isiphakamiso:

 

Sokuba le Ndlu ixoxe ngorhwaphilizo nobusela obuqhubeka kuMasipala oMbaxa waseNelson Mandela;

 

Ndifuna sazi ukuba iibhasi zeNkqubo yezoThutho kaWonke-wonke eHlanganeyo, IPTS, zama ukususela phambi komdlalo weNdebe yeHlabathi yeBhola eKhatywayo zingasebenzi. Azikasiboni isitalato ngenxa yobusela bamagosa e-ANC aphaya kwisakhiwo i-Standard House.

 

MS G BREYTENBACH

 

Mr B M BHANGA

 

 

 

Ms G BREYTENBACH: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the issue of property hijacking in remote areas of Pretoria and that the property is being used for drug trafficking purposes.

 

 

Ms N R MOKOTO

 

Ms G BREYTENBACH

 

 

 

 

Ms N R MOKOTO: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates on National Toilet Day, 19 November 2014, how the DA has failed to provide proper sanitation for the people of the townships in the Western Cape and has denied them basic human rights.

 

 

Ms V N PHOSA

 

Ms N R MOKOTO

 

 

 

Ms V N PHOSA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the House I shall move:

 

That the House –

1) debates the need to increase the number of students at the level of honours, masters and doctorates graduates as the output of our universities;

 

2) agrees that this approach must focus and target those students who come from previously disadvantaged areas, including the townships and the rural areas.

 

Ms E M COLEMAN

 

Ms V N PHOSA

 

 

 

 

Ms E M COLEMAN: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the House I shall move:

 

That the House discusses the impact of the credit rating agencies on the developing economies and that they have detrimental consequences for our developmental plans.

 

 

Mr M S MBATHA

 

Ms E M COLEMAN

 

 

 

 

Mr M S MBATHA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the value and age of African languages versus the English language, thereby educating those members of the House who still believe that speaking in English is tantamount to the big era of civilisation and question what the point is of correcting Africans in this House who speak in African English.

 

 

Ms T STANDER

 

Mr M S MBATHA

 

 

 

 

Ms T STANDER: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates what appropriate action should be taken against national departments that do not report to the Central Drug Authority, as is requested.

 

Ms E R WILSON

 

Ms T STANDER

 

 

 

 

Ms E R WILSON: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the exorbitant amount spent on refreshments and eats at portfolio meetings and rather using this money to help those who are forced to eat junk food.

 

 

Ms A M MATLHOKO

 

Ms E R WILSON

 

 

 

 

Sepedi:

Moh A M MATLHOKO: MotlatšaSpikara, legatong la mokgahlo wa setšhaba, ke ema ke šišinya gore ka tulo ye e latelago:

 

Ntlo e ahlaahle–

(1)        lenyatšo, tlhokego ya tlhompho, go lebelelana ka meselana ya mahlo, le go betšana ka noga e phela le bagaditšong ba rena;

 

1. tšeo di re bušetšago morago kgohlaganong ya setšhaba le lenaneong la “Moral Regeneration Movement”. Thobela.

 

Mr Z M D MANDELA

 

Ms A M MATLHOKO

 

 

 

 

Mnu Z M D MANDELA: Sekela Somlomo, ndenza isaziso sokuba, xa le Ndlu ihlala kwakhona, ndiza kwenza isiphakamiso:

 

Sokuba le Ndlu ixoxe ngesimilo, intobeko engekhoyo kule Ndlu.

 

 

Mr M P SIBANDE

 

Mr Z M D MANDELA

 

 

IsiZulu:

Mnu M P SIBANDE: Sekela Somlomo, egameni likaKhongolose ngiphakamisa ukuthi ekuhlaleni okulandelayo kwale ndlu:

 

Le Ndlu yesiShayamthetho ixoxe ngenkiyankiya yehlazo lokwehluleka kwe-DA eNtshonalanga Kapa ukusebenza kuhulumeni wesifundazwe kodwa baqoke ukukhokha izindimbane zemali ukukhokhela abeluleki ukuze kubukeke sengathi yibo abasebenzile.

 

Ngiyabonga.

 

 

Mr E J MARAIS

 

Mr M P SIBANDE

 

 

 

 

Mr E J MARAIS: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House‑

 

1. debates the Workmen’s Compensation Commissioner’s failure for the last three years in the Auditor-General’s report and the complete overhaul of the Workmen’s Compensation Commissioner; and

 

1. notes that the Minister of Labour should dismiss the entire staff and restructure the whole department of the Workmen’s Compensation Commissioner.

 

 

 

Mr M U KALAKO

 

Mr E J MARAIS

 

 

 

 

Mr M U KALAKO: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House‑

1. debates the double standards used by the DA in the National Assembly in wanting to cogovern with the ANC nationally, while in the province and the City of Cape Town the DA suppresses democratic debate in committees and in the provincial legislature and the City of Cape Town; and… [Interjections.]
2. also debates the dishonest and opportunistic actions by the DA of crying for Ministers in national government to account to Parliament while in the Western Cape Legislature and the City of Cape Town, their MECs and the mayor are refusing to account. [Interjections.]

 

 

 

 

Ms D R TSOTETSI

 

Mr M U KALAKO

 

 

 

 

Ms D R TSOTETSI: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

 

That the House debates the need to curb and respond to the rising illegal occupation of private and public land in various parts of the country, which is clearly being encouraged and instigated by the EFF with the intention of scoring cheap political points. In the ANC we call that criminal.

 

Mr R M TSELI

 

Ms D R TSOTETSI

 

 

 

 

Mr R M TSELI: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the rise of apartheid and the continuous discrimination that is on the rise in the opposition parties, especially when they continually raise fingers to the Speaker of the House.

 

 

Mr T MHLONGO

 

Mr R M TSELI

 

 

 

IsiZulu:

Mnu T MHLONGO: Sekela Somlomo, egameni le-DA ngiphakamisa ukuthi ekuhlaleni okulandelayo kwale ndlu:

 

Le Ndlu ixoxe ngodaba lokuthi i-ANC ibuyisa ubandlululo ngokuthi inganikezi abantu bethu umhlaba, ikakhulukazi eKliptown lapho imiphumela yokungalingani yakudala ingekalungiswa malungana nodaba lomhlaba. NgokoSomqulu Wenkululeko kukhulunywa ngenkululeko kodwa abantu bethu abahlala laphaya abanankululeko.

 

Ngiyabonga.

 

 

Ms T V TOBIAS

 

 

Mr T MHLONGO

 

 

 

 

Ms T V TOBIAS: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the suffering that the people of Khayelitsha in the Western Cape are still being subjected to because they are forced to use the potty-potty, which takes away their dignity on a daily basis as they have to take the potty-potty in and out of their little mkhukhu every morning and every evening.

 

Ms D H MATHEBE

 

Ms T V TOBIAS

 

 

 

 

Ms D H MATHEBE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the abuse and the loneliness of our fellow brother, the leader of the DA, by his own party, the DA right-wing.

 

 

 

Mr D MNGUNI

 

Ms D H MATHEBE

 

 

 

IsiSwati [18:24]

Mnu D MNGUNI: Sekela somlomo lohloniphekile, ehlangotsini lakhongolose ngendlulisa kutsi uma lendlu ihlala ngalokutako sikhulume ngekutiphatsa kwemalunga ephalamende ngalokutotsandvwa ngulabo lebasikhetsile emtsetfweni loshaywe ngitsi,ikakhulukati labo labakhetfwe bantfu labancane lapha endlini nangalendela labagcoka ngayo.

 

Ngiyandlulisa

 

 

Ms M S KHAWULA
Mr D MNGUNI

 

 

 

 

Nksz M S KHAWULA: Sekela Somlomo, egameni le-EFF ngiphakamisa ukuthi ekuhlanganeni okulandelayo kwale Ndlu:

 

Le Ndlu-

1. ibheke uMbiko woPhenyo laManase  ophathelene noMasipala waseThekwini odla kabi ama... awu sengicishe ngathi ama-comrades – ngase ngithi amacomrade! Kwakuyiwona - [Uhleko.] ... lungu kaKhongolose aphethe umkhandlu abhizi adlala ngamathenda, awanika abangani babo;

 

1. iphinde ibheke ukuthi abantu abayitholi imisebenzi futhi ngikhulume nje namanje la malungu kaKhongolose awabacabangeli abantu ukuthi kufanele bathole imisebenzi kepha imisebenzi kufanele itholwe yizingane zabo kuphela;

 

1. iphinde futhi ibheke ukuthi munye vo umuntu laphaya eThekwini abamaziyo ukuthi kufanele athole umsebenzi;

 

1. iqaphele ukuthi lo muntu izindlu ezakhiwe nguyena ziyabhidlika futhi zibulala abantu kodwa akaboshwa, futhi akenziwa lutho;

 

1. iphinde iqaphele ukuthi luyabhekwa ngempela lolu daba ngoba ibuhlungu le nto esiyikhulumayo; futhi

 

1. siyi-EFF siphakamisa ukuthi lapha njengokuthi umphakathi ... [Ubuwelewele.]

 

IPHINI LIKASOMLOMO: Lungu elihloniphekile, akuphindwa!

 

Nksz M S KHAWULA: Angiyiphindi fighter, angiyiphindi we-fighter!

 

IPHINI LIKASOMLOMO: Lungu elihloniphekile akuphindwa! akuphindwa, akuphindwa!

 

Nksz M S KHAWULA: Kulungile, ngiyaxolisa.

 

 

 

 

Mr M D KEKANA

 

Nk M S KHAWULA

 

 

 

 

Mr M D KEKANA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the reason that hon Maynier withdrew from the security clearance he was expected to undergo and asks what he is hiding.

 

 

 

Nk L M MASEKO
Mr M D KEKANA

 

 

 

 

Ms L M MASEKO: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the service delivery that has bettered the lives of those who were previously disadvantaged and those who have always being advantaged by the ANC government since 1994.

 

 

Mr M D KEKANA

 

Ms L M MASEKO

 

 

 

 

Mr M D KEKANA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates, after the dressing down of the leader of the opposition party by the leader of the DA at the DA caucus, whether indeed the hon leader is “the whole man” as described by the journalist Gareth Van Onselen.

 

 

Ms T MAHAMBEHLALA

 

Mr M D KEKANA

 

 

 

Ms T MAHAMBEHLALA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates why the mayor of Cape Town and the premier of the Western Cape wear musk when they visit areas where black South Africans live.

 

Thank you. [Applause.]

 

 

Ms D P MANANA

 

Ms T MAHAMBEHLALA

 

 

 

Ms D P MANANA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House discusses the assault of the public by public representatives of the DA, for example the DA councillor Irvin in the City of Cape Town, who recently assaulted a member of the public for asking a question of clarity.

 

 

Ms N MASHABELA

 

Ms D P MANANA

 

 

 

Ms N MASHABELA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

 

That the House discusses the waste of debating time by the ruling party, which they use to hurl insults at the opposition instead of articulating its agenda.

 

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY

 

Ms N MASHABELA

 

 

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House discusses the need for parties represented in this House to work together and hammer out South Africa’s solutions for this country to realise its potential as the most advanced in developing its people to their fullest ability.

 

 

Ms M F NKADIMENG

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY

 

 

 

 

Moh M F NKADIMENG:

Sepedi:

Mohl Motlatša Seboleledi sa Palamente, legatong la ANC, ke ema le go šišinya gore:

 

Ntlo ye e be le polediŠano ya mmakgonthe a kgodi-a-kgokgo ya go hlohloletša bomme gore ba kopane ka dihlopha go hloma dico-operative tšeo di tlogo go ba kgontšha go ba mmakgwebopotlana e le mokgwa wa go fediša tlala, kudukudu go bomma le bana gobane re a tseba gore: Tau tša hloka seboka di šitwa ken are e hlotša le gona bommagobana ba swara thipa ka bogaleng. [Legoswi.]

 

 

Ms L A MNGANGA-GCABASHE

 

Ms M F NKADIMENG

 

 

 

IsiZulu:

MNGANGA-GCABASHE:

 

 

C/W: Ms P SONTI

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

C/W: MNGANGA-GCABASHE

 

 

 

 

IsiXhosa:

Nks P SONTI: Somlomo, egameni le-ANC, ndiphakamisa ukuba kwindibano elandelayo yale Ndlu:

 

Le Ndlu yoWiso-mthetho ixoxe ngentsebenziswano engekhoyo, Nkosi yam, kule Ndlu. Kanti ke, banye aba bantu size kubasebenzela apha. Abohlukanga, ngabantu qha, hayi ngokwemibutho. Ndiyacela, ukuba siyohluleka masithandazeni boomama kubi. [Kwahlekwa.]

 

 

Ms Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANA

 

Ms P SONTI

 

 

 

 

Ms Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the toxic behaviour of a few private-school products sitting in the DA benches, young, white and arrogant and without either manners or wit, happily snacking on their privileges with their new soulmates, the EFF.

 

I thank you. [Applause.]

 

 

C/W: Ms S T XEGO-SOVITA

 

C/W: Ms Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANA

 

 

 

 

IsiXhosa:

Ms S T XEGO-SOVITA: Sekela Somlomo, egameni le-ANC, ndiphakamisa ukuba kwindibano elandelayo yale Ndlu:

 

Le Ndlu yoWiso-mthetho ixoxe ngobungozi ngokwasempilweni obunokwenziwa zizikhongozeli ze-peanut butter nokutya okudala okuthi kuze namalungu ombutho we-DA ngexesha befuna iivoti zabantu abantsundu kwiindawo esihlala kuzo, ukuze emva kweevoti singaphinde sibabone.

 

C/W: Mr L RAMATLAKANE

 

C/W: Ms S T XEGO-SOVITA

 

 

 

 

Mr L RAMATLAKANE: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates and denounces the DA-run City Of Cape Town’s draconian MyCiti plans to evict about 35 families in Wynberg and Plumstead from their residences of over 30 years.

 

 

C/W: Mr N P KHOZA

 

C/W: Mr L RAMATLAKANE

 

 

 

 

Mr N P KHOZA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

 

That the House debates the role played by Angola, Zambia, Tanzania and other African countries in the liberation of South Africa.

 

 

C/W: Mr M S A MAILA

 

C/W: Mr N P KHOZA

 

 

 

 

Mr M S A MAILA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the perceived overlaps in Chapter 9 institutions.

 

 

 

C/W: Mr T Z M KHOZA

 

C/W: Mr M S A MAILA

 

 

 

 

Mr T Z M KHOZA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the statement made by Premier Zille that Africans are foreigners in the Western Cape.

 

 

 

C/W: Mr M S MBATHA

 

C/W: Mr T Z M KHOZA

 

 

 

 

Mr M S MBATHA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

 

That the House debates the contribution of young guerrillas of uMkhonto weSizwe such as Solomon Mahlangu and Andrew Zondo.

 

 

C/W: Mr M S BOOI

 

C/W: Mr M S MBATHA

 

 

 

 

Mr M S BOOI: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf the ANC:

 

That the House debates the destructive, opportunistic and vacillating role played by the current dominant form of ultraleftism as represented by the stepsons of the right wing, the EFF; its irreversible tendency to dwindle into factions over time, as currently demonstrated by the emergence from within of the so-called “new economic freedom fighters” in the obtaining political conjuncture.

 

C/W: Prof N KHUBISA

 

C/W: Mr M S BOOI

 

 

IsiZulu:

Solwazi N KHUBISA: Sekela Somlomo ohloniphekile, egameni le-NFP, ngiphakamisa ukuthi ngokuhlala okulandelayo:

 

Le Ndlu-

1. idingide ukuthi kungenziwani ukubuyisela le Ndlu esimweni esihlelekile nenesithunzi;

 

1. iphinde idingide ukuthi singenzani futhi ukuchitheka kophoko; futhi

 

1. izibuze ukuthi ingabe sekuyiso yini isikhathi sokuba singalungiselela usizo lokuqala njengoba kubonakala izulu lihloma kule Ndlu ukuze sibuyele esimweni okuyisonasona.

 

Ms D Z RANTHO

 

Prof N M KHUBISA

 

 

 

Ms D Z RANTHO: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates the critical role played by the Speaker of this House in ensuring and contributing to the true liberation of women, especially those in the DA seats, who made it to this august House as a result of her hard work, sacrifice and dedication to liberating women of the country.

 

 

 

 

Mr D MNGUNI

 

Ms D Z RANTHO

 

 

 

 

Mr D MNGUNI: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the formation of the new alliance called DAEFFPLUS, which includes the DA, EFF and FF Plus.

 

 

 

 

Mr B T BONGO

 

 

 

Mr D MNGUNI

 

 

 

 

Mr B T BONGO: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the racism and sexism displayed by hon Maynier to the Minister of Defence and Military Veterans and the Deputy Minister of Defence and Military Veterans.

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, I rise on a point of order. Allegations against members of this House can only be moved by substantive motions. I ask that he withdraws that motion.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, that is correct. Withdraw the racism allegation.

 

Mr B T BONGO: I withdraw, Chair.

 

An HON MEMBER: Thank you, Deputy Speaker...

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, please hold on for a moment, a member at the back has risen. I did say that I was going to try to let members talk who have not spoken yet. I will come back to you. I am not banishing you at all; you will get an opportunity. I want to give those who have not spoken first...

 

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: I rise on a point of order, Deputy Chair. Is it parliamentary for hon members of this House to not be watching and cheering Bafana Bafana beating the Super Eagles at seven o’clock this evening? [Laughter.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Minister, I will check the Rules to see whether that is in the Rules. When appropriate, we will cheer. [Laughter.]

 

 

 

 

Mrs B L ABRAHAMS

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER

 

 

 

 

Mrs B L ABRAHAMS: Deputy Speaker, on behalf of the ANC I hereby give notice that, in the next sitting of the House, I shall move:

 

That the House debates the noncompliance of employers in vulnerable sectors like the farming and fishing industries with health and safety regulations and the effects this has on their workers.

 

Ms N R MASHABELA: Deputy Speaker, I rise on a point of order. Is it parliamentary for hon Minister Mbalula to chew Chappies in this House? [Laughter.]

 

 

 

 

Inkosi S P HOLOMISA

 

Ms N R MASHABELA

 

 

 

Inkosi S P HOLOMISA

 

Ms N R MASHABELA

 

 

 

IsiXhosa:

Inkosi S P HOLOMISA: Sihlalo ocwengileyo, ndibongoza, egameni lombhutho wesizwe i-ANC, ukuba xa le Ndlu ihlala kwakhona ndenza isiphakamiso sokuba iqulunqe ingxam exakileyo kule Ndlu yokuxambulisana nokuba ingazinqwanqwada njani izaphukaneka neentlondwane eziqaqadekileyo neziswantsulisa abantu abakhulu ngezinqongo izithuko ukuze kulawule uxolo nentlonipho ebalulekileyo kule Ndlu. Enkosi.

 

 

 

 

Ms M S KHAWULA

 

Inkosi S P HOLOMISA

 

 

 

IsiZulu:

Nks M S KHAWULA: Sekela Somlomo, egamemi le-EFF, i-Economic Freedom Fighters - inhlangano yabantu abamnyama abahluphekayo lena – ngiphakamisa ukuthi esikhathini sokuhlala esilandelayo:

 

Le Ndlu ibhekisise ukucindezelwa okukhona kuleli Phalamende. Uma ungelona ilungu le-ANC - njengokuthi mhlawumbe sithukwa yilabo abangaphesheya, uSihlalo ohleli kulesiya sihlalo akaboni ukuthi kufanele abakhuze, khona namhlanje le nto yamaphepha iqale kubona wangabakhuza. Besicela ukuthi ngelinye ilanga sibheke ukuthi yini okufanele yenzeke njengoba silapha ePhalamende. Empeleni nje njengoba silapha angisiboni isidingo sokuthi kube khona ozibona ukuthi mkhulu kunabanye. Sonke njengoba silapha sikhethwe abantu. Ngiyabonga.

 

English:

Mr B A RADEBE: Deputy Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The previous speaker cast aspersions on the Chair, saying that you are taking sides. I think that is not parliamentary. She must withdraw that motion. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you are out of order! You are out of order to respond the way you are responding and to scream the way you are screaming after making those allegations. [Interjections.] Hon member, you are continuing and I say once more that this is out of order! I will not do this again!

 

Hon members, there are members who I have noted… [Interjections.]. Hon member? [Interjections.] All right, go ahead. No, hon Deputy Minister, you cannot do what you want to do. [Interjections.] It is not allowed,sorry.

 

 

 

 

Mr I MOSALA

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER

 

 

 

 

Mr I MOSALA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates whether white supremacist and racist tendencies were eradicated after the Nationalist Party government was removed.

 

 

 

 

Ms D G MAHLANGU

 

Mr I MOSALA

 

 

 

 

Ms D G MAHLANGU: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House—

 

1. debates the negative effects of unbecoming behaviour of the opposition characterised by arrogance, rudeness, rowdiness, howling and creating stories meant to even affect the rating agencies such as the Global Competitiveness Index, Moody’s, etc, with the intention of subverting this beautiful and liberating democracy they themselves have so hugely benefited from. The truth always prevails. The ANC has transformed South Africa and will continue to move South Africa forward and counter the diabolic madness orchestrated to try and be ahead; and

 

1. debates the impact of carrying dual passports and whether that is actually causing unpatriotic behaviour.

 

 

 

 

Mr Z S MAKHUBELE

 

Ms D G MAHLANGU

 

 

 

 

Mr Z S MAKHUBELE: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the important role played by the South African government in the economic development of the Southern African Development Community, SADC, region.

 

 

 

 

Mr C D KEKANA

 

Mr Z S MAKHUBELE

 

 

 

 

Mr C D KEKANA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the radical transformation of the economy in order to change the life of poor communities and to take the concept of nation-building and reconciliation to its highest level as a necessary condition for everlasting peace and harmony. [Applause.]

 

 

 

 

Mrs N W MAGADLA

 

Mr C D KEKANA

 

 

 

 

Mrs N W MAGADLA: Deputy Speaker, on behalf of the ANC I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

 

That the House debates how dangerous peacetime heroes could be to the stability of the country, and the settler strategies applied by the DA to reinvent the institutionalisation of apartheid and govern South Africa — a move that led to the international isolation of South Africa. [Applause.]

 

 

 

 

Mr BEUKMAN

 

Mrs N W MAGADLA

 

 

 

 

Mr F BEUKMAN: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House discusses the role, duties and responsibilities of Members of Parliament to promote the concept of a constitutional state with special reference to conduct and adherence to Rules.

 

 

 

 

Mr T R J E RAMOKHOASE

 

Mr F BEUKMAN

 

 

 

 

Mr T R J E RAMOKHOASE: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates how to curb the spiralling robberies and criminality by armed criminals in the malls of our country and how the police are responding to the matter.

 

 

 

 

Mr N J J van R KOORNHOF

 

Mr T R J E RAMOKHOASE

 

 

 

 

Mr N J J van R KOORNHOF: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the benefits of localisation and the importance for all South Africans to buy South African-manufactured products.

 

 

 

 

Ms M A MOLEBATSI

 

 

Mr N J J van R KOORNHOF

 

 

 

Setswana:

Moh M A MOLEBATSI: Motlatsammusakgotla, ke tshitsinya mo boemong jwa ANC gore fa Ntlolehalahala e, e nna gape –

 

e ngangisane ka tshireletso ya kwa magaeng le karolo ya mafapha a a dirisang tshireletso ya diforamo tsa selegae.

 

 

 

Mr G MAGWANISHE

 

Moh M A MOLEBATSI

 

 

Xitsonga:

Nkul G MAGWANISHE: Xandla xa Xipikara, hi ku yimela vandla lerikulu ra ANC, vandla ra Xikwembu, swikwembu na vanhu, ndzi susumeta leswaku eka tshamo wa siku leri nga ta landzela:

Yindlu -

yi jhekajhekisana hi mafambiselo xikan’we na maambalelo ya Swirho swa Palamende leswaku ku ta kota ku hambanyisiwa exikarhi ka vahloti va timhisi ni varhangeri va le Palamende; na leswaku lava va nga xwela va khongeleriwa leswaku va ta kota ku vuya ePalamende va fambisa tiko. Ndza khensa.

 

 

Mr X MABASA

 

Mr R T MAVUNDA

 

 

 

 

Mr X MABASA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House-

1. debates the impact of the apartheid regime’s policies and how these have had a terrible impact on black people, and by black I mean Africans, Indians and coloureds;
2. admits that there is a need for white big business to take responsibility and partner with government in radically transforming the economy to benefit the poor and the working class through small businesses and co-operatives.

 

Mr R T MAVUNDA

 

Mr X MABASA

 

 

 

 

Siswati:

Umnu R T MAVUNDA: Sekela Lasomlomo, ngibeka satiso sekutsi ngelilanga lelilandzelako lekuhlala kwaLendlu ngiyawushukumisa egameni laKhongolose:

 

Kutsi Lendlu-

1. ikhulumisane ngabomasiphala lababili labente imphumelelo kulela laseMpumalanga, i-Steve Tswhete kanye neHlanzeni ngekutsi kuze kwaba ngiminyaka lemitsatfu ilandzelana bakwati kutfola luphenyotimali loluhlobile;

 

1. iphawule kutsi loko yintfo lekufanele siyihalalisele sonkhe, nome nguliphi Lilunga lePhalamende lelinengcondvo lingavuma kutsi lena nguyona ndzaba lenhle kakhulu lekufanele ikhulunywe kubantfu baseNingizimu Afrika. Ngiyabonga.

 

 

 

Mr P G MOTEKA

 

Mr R T MAVUNDA

 

 

 

 

Sepedi:

Mna P G MOTEKA: MotlatšaSepikara, legatong la EFF, ke kgopela gore ka kopano ye e latelago:

 

Ntlo ye-

(1)        e boledišane ka batho bao ba dulago magaeng le mekhukhung gore le bona ke batho ba swantšhwe le batho ba bangwe;

 

(2)        ditirelo ge di išwa setšhabeng ba se lebalwe, batho ba ba hloka meetse, dintlwana tša boithomelo, ba sepela sebaka se se telele go hwetša ditliliniki; gape

 

1. balwetši, masea le bomme bao ba iphepelago ba goga boima mola ditšhelete di felela dipotleng tša batho ba bangwe. Ke a leboga.

 

Mr C H M MAXEGWANA

 

Mr P G MOTEKA

 

 

 

Mr C H M MAXEGWANA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the conditions under which farm workers stay and work, and the form of wages they are given, including forced removals from their dwellings, particularly in the Western Cape.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, business will now be suspended for one hour for a comfort break. Bells will be rung to alert members to the resumption of business. [Interjections.]

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: On a point of order, Deputy Chairperson, I want to make the point that there has been absolutely no consultation with the official opposition on this – none whatsoever! [Interjections.]

 

An HON MEMBER: It is time for Red Bull!

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Chief Whip, we ourselves have to make an assessment of what the situation is here in the House. After all, we will be coming back here to proceed with the business of the House. I appreciate what you are suggesting and it is an important matter, but this decision was taken by the Presiding Officer sitting here now. [Interjections.]

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, may I then make the request that these sorts of interruptions are first proposed to the Whips. That is why we have Whips in Parliament, and they must be used to ensure that ... [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Order, hon members!

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. We must use the Whips so that we are able to communicate properly with the various caucuses. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: All right. Hon members, we will talk to the Whips about it.

 

 

BUSINESS SUSPENDED AT 18:57 AND RESUMED AT 19:58.

 

Ms M O MATSHOBA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House examines how it happened that the adults in the DA took leave of absence and left the children in charge.

 

 

Ms D G MAHLANGU

 

Ms M O MATSHOBA

 

 

 

 

Ms D G MAHLANGU: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the possibility of limiting the time given to notices of motion in the same way as is done with member’s statements.

 

 

Mr T J BONHOMME

 

Ms D G MAHLANGU

 

 

 

 

Mr T J BONHOMME: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the parliamentary dress code within the House so that the Rules of Parliament are honoured and respected; the dignity of Parliament is eroded no more; overalls, gumboots and helmets are disallowed and the Rules of Parliament are honoured and enforced.

 

 

Mr S A TLEANE

 

Mr T J BONHOMME

 

 

 

 

Mr S A TLEANE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the resurgence of Neo-Nazism in countries such as Germany and check whether this scourge has already visited our country.

 

 

 

Mrs N W MAGADLA

 

Mr S A TLEANE

 

 

 

 

Mrs N W MAGADLA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates whether there is a role the ANC government can play in ensuring that there is peace and stability in Africa and the world.

 

 

 

Ms M A MOLEBATSI

 

Mrs N W MAGADLA

 

 

 

 

Ms M A MOLEBATSI: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the newly announced training programme by the SA Police Service for 10 female learners who passed Grade 12 to enroll as aspirant pilots for helicopters and planes in 2015.

 

 

 

Mr K O BAPELA

 

Ms M A MOLEBATSI

 

 

 

 

Mr K O BAPELA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House considers the following: The health of an organism depends on the harmonious combination of elements and their connections, their internal and external interactions and all their emotions. Failure to educate each other about citizenship has this dialectical perspective on unity of the country and may potentially damage the stature of our country’s people for many decades to come. This failure may present opportunistic claims that they are in better positions to lead this country. Expected of us is unity because unity of all our people, Black and White, fellow countrymen, is a sacred objective that we should spare no energy to preserve and nurture. We may differ in our perspective, but we are not enemies. We were but we are no more. We are South Africans united in diversity, which makes us a unique nation.

 

 

 

Ms T V TOBIAS

 

Mr K O BAPELA

 

 

 

 

Ms T V TOBIAS: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates robustly the need for reforms of international financial institutions, especially the International Monetary Fund, with the intention to use macroeconomic policies to stimulate economic growth.

 

 

Ms G K TSEKE

 

Ms T V TOBIAS

 

 

 

 

Ms G K TSEKE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the need to provide ongoing training for members of the opposition, particularly to the DA Whips, on the Rules of the National Assembly, so as to explain the authority of the Speaker and other presiding officers of the National Assembly.

 

 

Mr S G MMUSI

 

Ms G K TSEKE

 

 

 

 

Mr S G MMUSI: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates how to curb the loud, boorish behaviour, the shouting like school boys, high on illegal substances, that is characterising the Desperate Alliance.

 

 

Mrs J V BASSON

 

Mr S G MMUSI

 

 

 

 

Mrs J V BASSON: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the house I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates how to solve the problem of drug abuse at our schools and the communities, and further evaluates the effects thereof.

 

 

Ms T MAHAMBEHLALA

 

Mrs J V BASSON

 

 

 

 

Ms T MAHAMBEHLALA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House discusses the City of Cape Town’s latest Quarterly Financial Report, which indicates that close to half a billion rand in the human settlements department will not be spent this financial year despite the huge backlog in housing delivery in the City of Cape Town, and the money will be sent back to the provincial government.

 

Mrs J V BASSON

 

Ms T MAHAMBEHLALA

 

 

 

 

Mr S LUZIPO: Hon Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates equal representation of women in the structures of government, South Africa being rated number eight out of 189 countries in the world in women representation and that such a debate must ensure that 50% representation be regulated in all election list of political parties, not just in the ANC only, as without doubt the major contributor to such high percentage is the ANC.

 

Ms J D KILLIAN
Mr S LUZIPO

 

 

 

 

Ms J D KILLIAN: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates and clarifies the apparent confusion in the ranks of the DA about their role in Wale Street, where they govern with 59% support and consequently appoint their Speaker and presiding officers, and in the National Assembly, where they have 23% of electoral support yet, notwithstanding that, want to dictate to the ANC with its 62% electoral majority who should be Speaker and presiding officers of this House.

 

 

 

 

Mrs B L ABRAHAMS

 

Ms J D KILLIAN

 

 

 

Mrs B L ABRAHAMS: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House notes that the half-time score in Bafana Bafana’s game is South Africa 1 Nigeria 0. We hope to have a better score.

 

 

Ms L A MNGANGA-GCABASHE

 

Mrs B L ABRAHAMS

 

 

 

Ms L A MNGANGA-GCABASHE: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the role played by the official opposition, the DA, to rent blacks as leaders and members in legislatures and municipalities, in that they choose those who are willing to be used ... [Interjections.]

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order, I think that is a breach of Rule 63, which deals with offensive language. The statements by the member that the DA “rents blacks” is offensive not only to the public representatives concerned but ...

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Yes, hon member, your language is offensive. Please withdraw.

 

IsiZulu:

Ms L A MNGANGA-GCABASHE: [Uhleko.] Sebezwile kodwa, ...

 

English:

... I withdraw.

 

… to insult the ANC and that they are now tactically trying to rent EFF members in the House to play their dirty games.

 

Mr P G MOTEKA: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: The manner in which she apologised - is that the way to go? Is it the right way to apologise? If they do it, then we will do it too and that will not bring peace in the House.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, it is not the right way to apologise, but two wrongs do not make a right. Can the hon member please withdraw unconditionally so that we can proceed without this interruption?

 

IsiZulu:

Nks L A MNGANGA-GCABASHE: Sihlalo, ngiyahoxisa.

 

 

Mr MAHLALELA

 

Nks L A MNGANGA-GCABASHE

 

 

 

English:

Mr A F MAHLALELA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
 

That the House debates progress made by the ANC government since 1994 in the project of nation-building to promote pride in a common national identity and build greater social cohesion.

 

 

Mr D MNGUNI

 

Mr MAHLALELA

 

 

 

 

Mr D MNGUNI: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
 

That the House debates the EFF’s promise that its MPs will resign after a year to allow others to come to Parliament.

 

 

 

Ms N R BHENGU

 

Mr D MNGUNI

 

 

 

Ms N R BHENGU: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
 

That the House debates the crisis of a leaderless, directionless and angry minority party pretending to be a party that can lead the nation and provide solutions to people’s problems so that South Africa can move forward to prosperity and harmony.

 

 

 

Mr G S RADEBE

 

Ms N R BHENGU

 

 

 

Mr G S RADEBE: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
 

That the House debates the need to review the regulated time allocated to political parties in that the time allocated must be in line with the support parties received during the elections.

 

 

Mr T Z M KHOZA

 

Mr G S RADEBE

 

 

 

Mr T Z M KHOZA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
 

That the House debates the role played by the DA in supporting a South African artist, Brett Bailey, who went abroad and displayed a work of art depicting how black Africans were used in museums as exhibits - such terrible racism during our time, which is typical and in line with Premier Zille’s notions and attitudes to blacks.

 

 

Mr B RADEBE

 

Mr T Z M KHOZA

 

 

 

Mr B RADEBE: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
 

That the House debates the heroic struggle of the government and the people of Cuba in fighting colonialism in Africa and their continued support in fighting Ebola in West Africa by sending the largest number of doctors to that part of the continent. 

 

 

Mr P G MOTEKA

 

Mr B RADEBE

 

 

 

 

Mr P G MOTEKA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:
 

That the House debates the number one killing disease in Africa, which South Africa is part of, the disease not being malaria, HIV or anything like that but the scourge of ignorance.

 

 

Ms P C NGWENYA-MABILA

 

Mr P G MOTEKA

 

 

 

Ms P C NGWENYA-MABILA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
 

That the House debates the intervention made by the ANC government in ensuring that restituted and redistributed land is productive for economic growth and food security.

 

 

Ms N T NOVEMBER

 

 

Ms P C NGWENYA-MABILA

 

 

 

Ms N T NOVEMBER: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
 

That the House debates the living conditions of farm workers and the evictions that continue to go on, especially in the Western Cape.

 

 

Ms P BHENGU

 

Ms N T NOVEMBER

 

 

 

 

Ms P BHENGU: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
 

That the House debates setting up a commission of enquiry to examine carefully and exhaustibly what certain members of the Desperate Alliance are smoking because clearly their behaviour shows that this substance cannot be legal.

 

 

Mr X MABASA

 

Ms P BHENGU

 

 

 

Mr X MABASA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
 

That the House debates the value of bringing up South African children with love to prevent them running to the streets to become children living and working on the streets and that co-operatives are one of the key instruments that can be used as an economic way of bringing them into normal life.

 

 

Mr M H MATLALA

 

Mr X MABASA

 

 

 

Mr M H MATLALA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
 

That the House debates the assertion of the former leader of the DA that the only thing that inspires ordinary DA MPs is job security and a dislike for the ANC president, which shows that there are no good and great causes that the DA stands for but only job security and pleasing the madam.

[Interjections.]

 

Mr B RADEBE: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: That member on the other side said someone is going to kiss Zuma. Zuma is the President of this country and I think he must be respected accordingly. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, please wait until you are recognised. [Laughter.] Hon members, you are out of order! Hon member - the one that was standing up and giving others a hand -you are out of order. Hon members, I did say that offensive references to members of this House, including the President, are out of order and wrong. Ms Maseko, please proceed.

 

 

Ms L MASEKO:

 

Mr M H MATLALA

 

 

Ms L MASEKO: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House-

a) debates the importance of investing in research on indigenous medicine as part of innovation and the preservation of indigenous knowledge.

 

 

 

 

Mr N P KHOZA

 

Ms L MASEKO

 

 

 

Mr N P KHOZA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:

 

That the House-

a) debates the true history of pre-colonial Africa and restoring the dignity of Africans by outlining their historical and scientific advances.

 

 

 

Ms N N MAFU

 

Mr N P KHOZA

 

 

 

Ms N N MAFU: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC, the only revolutionary party in South Africa:

 

That the House-

1. debates the illegal and irresponsible act of land invasion that is being instigated by the so-called ultra left called the EFF, thinking that they are revolutionaries, in the areas of Nellmapius in Tshwane because this is actually giving the wrong idea to the people of South Africa.

 

Mr Z LUYENGE
Ms N N MAFU

 

 

 

IsiXhosa:

Mnu Z LUYENGE: Enkosi Sekela Somlomo, ndenza isaziso sokuba, xa le Ndlu ihlala kwakhona, ndiza kwenza isiphakamiso:

 

Sokuba le Ndlu-

 

1. iphicothe ingotsetse eyenzeka kweli leNtshona Koloni apho uhlanga oluNtsundu luphiliswa ngokunga ngamahambi emhlabeni walo;
2. le Ndlu inike uxanduva iSebe lezokuHlaliswa koLuntu, lokwakhela abantu bakuthi izindlu elizweni labo.

 

[Kwaqhwatywa.]

 

 

 

Mr M U KALAKO

 

Mnu Z LUYENGE

 

 

 

English:

Mr M U KALAKO: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

            That the House-

 

1. debates the DA’s physical attack on members of the SA Police Service, thereby encouraging and perpetuating the killing of the members of the SA Police Service in the line of duty.
2. notes that by their actions, they have conveyed an unlawful message to those who refuse to obey the law and are involved in criminal activities, meaning that the police have no protection even from Members of Parliament.
3. further notes that the House censors DA members who were involved in this barbaric act.

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Hon Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: I submit to you that that motion is out of order. A motion of that nature has to be a substantive motion as it will have to get to members of this House. I submit that the motion must be withdrawn. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I will get advice and will come back to you just now, hon member.

 

 

 

Ms T MAHAMBEHLALA

 

MR M U KALAKO

 

 

 

Ms T MAHAMBEHLALA: Deputy Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

            That the House-

1. debates the corruption and fraud in housing allocation in the DA-led Bitou Local Municipality, where two DA leaders sold houses and allocated houses to friends and family and DA members instead of the rightful beneficiaries.

 

 

Mr S LUZIPO

 

Ms T MAHAMBEHLALA

 

 

 

Mr S LUZIPO: Deputy Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

            That the House-

1. debates the blatant undermining of the rules of employment in the Public Service by the Western Cape government;
2. that the Western Cape premier established a two-person panel as a commission of inquiry on the conduct of the police in the Western Cape;
3. that the commission leader made recommendations that included the creation of a new post of police ombudsman;
4. the same person was appointed without advertising or conducting interviews; and
5. noted that the criteria had just been to spite the ANC.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, before I proceed, I would like to make the following remark regarding the earlier point that the hon Chief Whip of the Opposition raised. The reference was to the party. This is what I want to say: Notices of motion are subject to the rules of debate. In other words, members are not allowed to reflect on the integrity of other members of the House nor are they allowed to use language that is unbecoming or offensive.

 

The language used in the notices of motions thus far has been far from acceptable. I also wish to remind hon members of the House that since 1 November 2014 all members are subject to the provisions of the code of ethical conduct, which includes not bringing the House into disrepute. I appeal to members to keep that in mind in your engagement with one another. Thank you very much.

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Hon Deputy Speaker, can I get clarity from you, please? Are you ruling that the members who moved motions that made allegations against members of this House should be censored is in terms of the rules?

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I have not said anything of that sort. I have said to you, hon members, that you must be careful of what you are saying in terms of the Rules here. If needs be, we will come back to you - in addition to what I have already said - about the nature and the content of notices of motion here. You are all subject to the Rules and none of you is exempted from that, irrespective of which political party you belong to.

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: But surely, Deputy Speaker, if it is required to be a motion of censure against a member of this House, it needs to be a substantive motion. If it is not, the notice of motion must be withdrawn.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: That is precisely what I have said here, hon member. You must remember that there are rules within call freedom of speech. You are all skating on the boundary of freedom of speech. You are constantly jumping into areas that are out of order and irresponsible. I am suggesting that you refrain from doing that.

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES RESPONSIBLE FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: I have just heard the Chief Whip of the Opposition saying you must have a substantive motion for a motion of censure. May I then ask why the motion on the Order Paper is not substantive? [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, we will come back to that. Proceed with your motion, hon member.

 

Xitsonga:

Man N K BILANKULU: Muchaviseki Xandla xa Xipikara, ndzi yima ndzi nyika xitiviso xa leswaku eka ntshamo wa Yindlu wa siku leri nga ta landzela ndzi ta susumeta hi ku yimela vandla lerikulu ra Xikwembu na swikwembu na vanhu ra ANC:

 

Leswaku Yindlu-

1. yi njhekanjhekisana ni ku burisana hi ku hungutiwa ka vugevenga ehenhla ka vana na vamanana hi vavanuna lava nga hava vutihlamuleri na leswaku swigwevo swa vona swi tlakusiwanyana; nakambe

 

1. hi tlhela hi languta kumbe ku hunguta ku tiphina ka vona loko va ri emakhotsweni - khotso a ri hundzuki ndzhawu ya ku xupula ni ku lulamisa ku nga vi ndzhawu ya ku tiphina.

 

Ndzi susumeta leswaku hi ya swi langutisa. Inkomu.

 

English:

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, just an additional point of information. It is a customary that all notices of motion are subjected to scrutiny to ensure that they are in fact in terms of the Rules. If they are not, members will be called to be told that their motion in particular is out of order. This might include sanctions, if that is seen to be necessary and appropriate if what you said in the House is found to be not in order.

 

Do remember that and bear that in mind when you speak and when you issue your notices of motion. If something does not happen today, that does not mean it will not happen. I wish to remind you to please stay within the boundaries of acceptable language. It is better that way. It will also keep the tempers in the House down. Let us proceed.

Ms D P MANANA
Man N K BILANKULU

 

 

 

Ms D P MANANA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the racist nature of the DA in that they were part of the racist Parliament of the past and they have not and still refuse to apologise for their deeds.

 

 

Ms J L FUBBS

 

Ms D P MANANA

 

 

 

 

Ms J L FUBBS: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House-

 

1. debates the obligation on all organs of state to procure goods that are on the designated list and conforms with local content requirements; and

 

1. further notes that measures to ensure that this message and the need for the verification of goods by the SA Bureau of Standards are effectively disseminated for the positive impact of verified goods procurement on quality service delivery in all provinces.

 

 

 

Ms R E NYALUNGU

 

Ms J L FUBBS

 

 

 

 

Ms R E NYALUNGU: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the lack of responsible political debate from the DA and the EFF.

 

 

 

Ms N MASHABELA

 

Ms R E NYALUNGU

 

 

 

 

Ms N MASHABELA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF, which is the government in waiting:

 

That the House debates the value of mother-tongue education for the first four years of primary education, with English being introduced as a medium of instruction from Grade 5.

 

 

Mr B M MKONGI

 

Ms N MASHABELA

 

 

 

 

Mr B M MKONGI: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House-

1. debates the escalating racist attacks against black people by white supremacists in the Western Cape province; and

 

1. further notes that these heinous crimes against black people in this province are as a result of, among other causes, the “fight back” slogans of the DA in this province.

Ms Y N PHOSA

 

Mr B M MKONGI

 

 

 

 

Ms Y N PHOSA: Hon Deputy Speaker of the ANC-led government, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the appropriate balance of local and international student enrolment by South African universities in order to address the skills shortage and unemployment in our country.

 

 

Ms M L S MAKHUBELA

 

Ms Y N PHOSA

 

 

 

 

Ms M L S MAKHUBELA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House-

 

1. debates the positive effects and spin-offs from the land recapitalisation and restitution programme;

 

1. notes that the lives of our people have changed for the better as beneficiaries of the land restitution and recapitalisation programme; and

 

1. further notes that the success of this project and this programme can only mean that the ANC government is committed to changing the lives of our people.

 

 

 

Mr Z S MAKHUBELE

 

Ms M L S MAKHUBELA

 

 

 

 

Mr Z S MAKHUBELE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

 

That the House debates the integration and ownership by communities and the previously disadvantaged within the ocean and coastal mainstream economy.

 

 

 

MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

 

NOTICES OF MOTION

 

 

 

 

AFRICA INDUSTRIALISATION DAY

(Draft Resolution)

 

Mr B A RADEBE: Deputy Speaker, on behalf of the ANC I hereby move without notice:

 

That the House—

 

1. notes that in 1989, the United Nations proclaimed 20 November Africa Industrialisation Day;

 

1. further notes that the day is intended to mobilise the commitment of the international community to the industrialisation of Africa;

 

1. recognises that Africa is becoming one of the world’s fastest-growing economies, even though many of its people are still living in poverty;

 

1. believes that Africa needs to work together to foster job creation and entrepreneurship throughout the continent as critical ways to build a more prosperous and sustainable future for all;

 

1. further believes that the promotion of intra-African trade can also assist in building a more prosperous and sustainable future for all; and

 

1. calls upon African governments, the private sector, civil society and the international community to support and jointly work towards the realisation of industrialisation of Africa.

 

Agreed to.

 

 

 

 

Mr N P KHOZA

 

Mr B A RADEBE

 

 

 

 

MEETING BETWEEN LEADERS OF OPPOSITION PARTIES AND DEPUTY PRESIDENT ABOUT CRISIS EXPERIENCED IN FIFTH PARLIAMENT

(Draft Resolution)

 

Mr N P KHOZA: Deputy Speaker, on behalf of the EFF I move without notice:

 

That the House—

 

1. notes the meeting held with opposition party leaders by the Deputy President, Cyril Ramaphosa;

 

1. welcomes the intervention to seek a political solution to the political crisis seen in this Fifth Parliament;

 

1. acknowledges that the Powers and Privileges Committee had lost credibility and integrity for refusing to acknowledge the concerns opposition parties had raised;

 

1. further welcomes the establishment of a political oversight committee where opposition can raise the various issues raised in this House;

 

1. further acknowledges this as a victory for multiparty democracy; and

 

1. commends opposition parties for their firm stand against the bullying tactics of the ruling party.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: If there are no objections, I put the motion. [Interjections.] As there are objections, the motion falls away.

 

 

 

Mr C NQAKULA

 

Mr N P KHOZA

 

 

 

 

ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF SPRINGBOKS, PROTEAS AND BAFANA BAFANA AS COUNTRY’S REPRESENTATIVES IN WORLD SPORTS

(Draft Resolution)

 

Mr C NQAKULA: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:

 

That the House—

 

1. notes that the ANC raises its banner to our sports persons who are playing rugby in Europe, cricket in Australia and Bafana Bafana who have qualified for the soccer African Cup of Nations next year for keeping the South African flag flying high;

 

1. believes that the Springboks, the Proteas and Bafana Bafana will again lift the world trophies in their respective sporting codes.

 

Agreed to.

 

 

 

 

Mr T J BRAUTESETH

 

Mr C NQAKULA

 

 

 

 

THE MURDER OF 9-YEAR-OLD BONANG BRIDGETTE SELAI

(Draft Resolution)

 

Mr A R MCLOUGHLIN: Deputy Speaker, on behalf of the DA I move without notice:

 

That this House—

 

1. notes the brutal and needless murder of 9-year-old Bonang Bridgette Selai next to the stadium in Zone 3, Sebokeng, on Sunday, 9 November 2014;

 

1. also notes that the motive for this murder appears to have been to obtain body parts, as many of these were removed from the corpse;

 

1. further notes that the DA condemns such murders in the strongest possible terms;

 

1. calls for this House to join together in its efforts to protect all our children and to encourage any person who has any knowledge relating to such murders — whether before or after the fact — to report such knowledge to their nearest police station; and

 

1. conveys its sincere condolences to the family of Bonang Bridgette Selai.

 

Agreed to.

 

 

 

 

Mr T E MULAUDZI

 

Mr T J BRAUTESET

 

 

 

 

BOYCOTT, DIVESTMENT AND SANCTIONS SA CAMPAIGN AGAINST WOOLWORTHS OVER TRADE RELATIONS WITH ISRAEL

(Draft Resolution)

 

Mr T E MULAUDZI: Deputy Speaker, on behalf of the EFF I move without notice:

 

That the House—

 

1. notes that since 4 August 2014, Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions SA, BDS SA, began a campaign to boycott Woolworths over its trade relations with Israel, following the war in Gaza;

 

1. also notes that the Public Investment Corporation is the majority shareholder in Woolworths, which will hold its annual general meeting on the 26 November 2014.;

 

1. further notes that we also engaged in the call to boycott apartheid South Africa as a nonviolent campaign to isolate the racist state until it respected the equal rights of black and white;

 

1. acknowledges that Palestinians have also asked the world to boycott, divest and sanction Israel as an institution to retain the potent gift of international solidarity until Palestine and Israel enjoy equal rights;

 

1. condemns Woolworths for continuing to ignore calls to end its trade relations with Israel, which illegally occupies Palestinian territory;

 

1. commends BDS SA for its tireless work and supports its action to encourage South Africans to boycott Woolworths;

 

1. encourages all shareholders of Woolworths to recognise that they conduct trade relations with the abnormal state of Israel, thereby normalising the oppression of Palestinians and making us complicit in the oppression of their rights;

 

1. remembers the words of Archbishop Desmond Tutu when he said, “If you remain neutral in the face of oppression you have joined the side of the oppressor”;

 

1. further encourages South Africans to support the protest at the Woolworths AGM on 26 November 2014;

 

1. also encourages all to boycott Woolworths until it ends its trade with Israel.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! If there are no objections, I put the motion. [Interjections.]

 

Mr N SWART: Hon Deputy Speaker, the ACDP objects.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: In light of the objection, the motion falls away.

 

 

 

 

Ms M T KUBAYI

 

Mr T E MULAUDZI

 

 

 

 

RAND STANDS FIRM AGAINST DOLLAR, DESPITE JAPAN’S ECONOMIC CHALLENGES.

(Draft Resolution)

 

Ms M T KUBAYI: Deputy Speaker, I hereby move without notice:

 

That the House

 

1. notes that the rand is standing firm against the dollar, given Japan’s economic challenges.

 

1. also notes that the rand climbed 1,04% to 11,019% against the dollar, which is at its strongest point since October;

 

1. further notes that market analyst Sean McCallion indicated that this move is enough to distract attention from the fundamental economic weaknesses of South Africa; and

 

1. acknowledges that government bonds were also buoyed by the yen sell-off by shedding 7,82% basis points and will kindly await the announcement of the consumer inflation number by the new Governor of the Reserve Bank, Mr Lesetja Kganyago, after the first policy meeting that will take place later.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, my attention has been drawn to the fact that your motion was unfortunately not circulated and therefore should not have been read.

 

 

 

 

Ms D R TSOTETSI

 

Ms M T KUBAYI

 

 

 

 

25 NOVEMBER COMMEMORATED AS INTERNATIONAL DAY FOR ELIMINATION OF VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN

(Draft Resolution)

 

Ms D R TSOTETSI: I hereby move without notice:

 

That the House—

 

1. notes that 25 November is commemorated as the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women;

 

1. further notes that the date of 25 November was chosen to commemorate the Mirabal sisters, three political activists whom the Dominican ruler Rafael Trujillo (1930 to 1961) ordered to be brutally assassinated in 1960;

 

1. recalls that the United Nations Secretary General’s Campaign UNiTE to End Violence Against Women has proclaimed the 25th of each month Orange Day, whereby people of the world are called upon to wear something orange to highlight its calls for the eradication of violence against women without reservations, equivocation or delay;

 

1. acknowledges that violence against women continues to be a global pandemic, with up to 70% of women experiencing violence in their lifetime;

 

1. believes that violence against women and girls is not inevitable and therefore prevention is possible and essential;

 

1. supports the UNiTE Campaign, which is extending Orange Day to 16 Days of Activism Against Gender-Based Violence, starting 25 November, which is International Day to End Violence Against Women, through to 10 December, which is Human Rights Day; and

 

1. calls upon all South African men and women alike to become agents of change for the noble cause to end the violence that affects an estimated one in three women in her lifetime, as well as on government to tighten, enact and enforce laws aimed at the eradication of this scourge.

 

Agreed to.

 

 

 

 

 

Mr S C MOTAU

 

Ms M T KUBAYI

 

 

 

CITY OF TSHWANE WASTES R15 MILLION ON FOOD FOR EMPLOYEES DURING AUGUST

(Draft Resolution)

 

Mr S C MOTAU: Deputy Speaker, I hereby move without notice:

 

That the House-
 

1. notes that it is reported that the obscene amount of R15 million of taxpayers’ money was wasted by the City of Tshwane to feed its employees for the month of August alone;

                                                 

1. further notes that the R15 million was allegedly spent on takeaways for staff members of the city who worked overtime;

 

1. acknowledges that on average 12 million South Africans go to bed hungry every single night;

 

1. further acknowledges that spending R15 million on takeaways in one month alone is a gross mismanagement of municipal funds;

 

1. conveys its deep concerns to the City of Tshwane for this inappropriate spending of public money that should have been used to provide essential services to the people of Tshwane; and

 

1. encourages staff members and officials who signed off on these orders to set an example of leading a healthier lifestyle given the concerning levels of obesity in our country.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! If there are no objections, I put the motion ... [Interjections.]

 

Mr B RADEBE: There is an objection from the ANC, Deputy Speaker.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: In light of the objection, the motion without notice may not be proceeded with. The motion falls away.

 

 

 

Mr D W MACPHERSON

 

MR S C MOTAU

 

 

 

 

TWO SUSPECTS ARRESTED IN NORTHWAY, DURBAN NORTH

(Draft Resolution)

Mr D W MACPHERSON: Deputy Speaker, I hereby move without notice:

 

That the House-
 

1. notes that on 11 November 2014, two suspects were arrested in Northway, Durban North, after a car chase and shootout with Durban North Police officers;
    
2. further notes that the chase started after a Special Operations Unit from the station spotted the vehicle acting suspiciously;
    
3. recognises that the officers from other units joined in the chase before the suspects’ vehicle opened fire on the police, after which police officers returned fire, bringing the car to a halt;
    
4. acknowledges that the vehicle used by the suspects was found to contain stolen police pistols, a police bullet proof vest and police radio;
    
5. further acknowledges the excellent and vigilant work by Visible Policing Commander, Colonel Dhlamuka, and her team, including the Field Unit;
    
6. commends the bravery of the officers involved for bringing these criminals to book; and
    
7. calls on South Africans to continue to support the South African Police Service in the fight against crime in their communities.

 

Agreed to.

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Deputy Speaker, we want to make a correction regarding our earlier objection. We withdraw that objection. [Applause.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Are you referring to the previous motion, the one about the takeaway food in Tshwane?

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Yes, Deputy Speaker.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! That will be recorded.

 

 

 

Mr M S MBATHA

 

Mr D W MACPHERSON

 

 

 

REMEMBERING BOB MARLEY

(Draft Resolution)

 

Mr M S MBATHA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby move without notice:

 

That the House-

1. notes that this year marks 33 years since the  untimely death of the reggae hero, Bob Marley;
    
2. further notes that he will be remembered for promoting marijuana for recreational and medicinal use and also for fighting for Africans in the diaspora and all over the world;
    
3. acknowledges that it will be important for the country at some stage to nationalise all natural resources, including marijuana, and that this will be important to make sure that the substance is turned into an economic activity producing such products as fabric and all sorts of other things that could be important in growing our economy because this plantation is indeed an African herb.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I am asking for advice because in South Africa some of the things you mentioned are illegal. So, the Rules will be checked. Otherwise there was no objection and your motion would then be recorded as acceptable.

 

Mr M U KALAKO

 

Mr MBATHA

 

 

 

SOUTH AFRICA’S ONE-DAY CAPTAIN A B DE VILLIERS

(Draft Resolution)

 

Mr M U KALAKO: Hon Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:

 

            That the House-

 

1. notes that on Friday, 14 November 2014, South Africa’s one-day captain, A B de Villiers, was named One Day International Cricketer of the Year by the International Cricket Council;

 

1. further notes that De Villiers and pace bowler Dale Steyn were the two Proteas picked in the ICC Test Team of the Year and were joined by Quinton de Kock, as the three names in the ODI Team of the Year;

 

1. acknowledges that in total there were 11 individual awards, as well as two ICC Teams of the Year for Tests and ODIs; and

 

1. congratulates De Villiers on his achievements and for raising the South African flag high.

 

Agreed to.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon members who have your hands up, have your motions been circulated? If they have not, please please do not even think ... [Interjections.] What point are you rising on, hon member? [Interjections.] Hon members, are there any further notices without motion? There are none. Hon members, we now move to the motion on the Order Paper. The last item on the Order Paper is a motion in the name of the hon Leader of the Opposition Party. [Applause.]

 

 

 

MOTION ON ORDER PAPER:  LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION

 

MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE

 

 

 

CENSURE PRESIDENT FOR FAILING TO COMPLY WITH RULES OF NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

(Draft Resolution)

 

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, can I proceed? Hon members, yesterday morning, leaders of opposition parties met and had a positive meeting with the Deputy President. The meeting was convened by the Deputy President after the shameful events of last week Thursday, with the incursion of the SA Police Service into this Chamber and the events of the recent month, all of which have shaken our confidence in the ability of this House to perform its constitutional duty and hold government to account.

 

At the meeting yesterday, the Deputy President agreed that the Rules of Parliament needed to be applied fairly and in a consistent way and that this was the only way in which hon members could have confidence in presiding officers.

 

We will in fact participate in the internal committee of political leaders formed at yesterday’s meeting. But let me make it clear that our participation does not mean we ought to be co-opted. We hope that the Deputy President is able to provide leadership. [Applause.] But let me also say, what happened here last week was not a parliamentary crisis. It is in fact an ANC crisis. If the Rules have been applied fairly, it would never have happened. And most importantly, if the President of the Republic obeyed the Rules of Parliament and came here to answer questions, we would not have had what happened last week. [Applause.]

 

In fact, this is what is at the heart of this whole issue. Our President is absent without leave. He is failing in his constitutional duty and obligation to appear here in Parliament. And the majority of this House will turn a blind eye; will do filibustering; will use the riot police to protect one person: President Zuma. It cannot be accepted. We will not accept this. We will not allow the Rules to be broken and the Constitution to be disregarded.

 

This is why we believe that notwithstanding our discussions yesterday with the Deputy President the House must show some sign, give some firm indication, that it does not condone or approve of what President Zuma is doing. In fact, I will even argue that it is precisely in the spirit of yesterday that we must strengthen accountability.

 

Hon members, we cannot rebuild the credibility of this House or its presiding officers until President Zuma obeys the Rules and answers oral questions. [Applause.]

 

We were deeply heartened by the meeting yesterday. It affirms the principle of executive accountability. But one of my serious concerns is that it fell short of providing a date for when the President will appear. [Interjections.]

 

Parliament rises on Friday, so we realised that it is not likely that the President will appear this year, yet this matter is of such importance – in fact, it is of such principle - that I would like to call on all members in this House to consider a special sitting next week if the President is willing to appear. [Applause.] Considerations of time should not prevent this House from fulfilling its constitutional obligation to hold the executive to account. In fact, there is no other work place that shut its business by 21 November. We must continue to make sure that the President must come here before the end of 2014.

 

You see, hon members, when the First Democratic Parliament was constituted, the people of this country were rightly filled with pride over our growing democracy. Our new Constitution was adopted. President Nelson Mandela had profound respect for the Constitution and the spirit in which it was written. He embraced the opportunity to appear in Parliament to answer questions and to actively engage members. Sadly, what has happened is that this legacy has crumbled.

 

The ideal of the National Assembly that allows for an open and inclusive dialogue has been shattered by ANC majoritarianism. And today, instead of having President Jacob Zuma in this House so that we can debate with the President, we are forced to debate about the President. [Applause.]

 

Hon members, section 91 and 92 of the Constitution vest in Parliament the profound responsibility of holding the president to account. It is this House that elects the President and it is this House that must hold him to account - not an imbizo, not another meeting, but this House.

 

Therefore, Rule 111 of the National Assembly makes clear the President’s obligation to this House and there is no different interpretation. The President must appear before this House at least once a quarter. But the President has failed to obey these Rules.

 

Last week, the Assembly was dragged into disarray. The President was allowed to escape accountability again and the ANC steamrollered the opposition by exonerating him regarding the upgrades to his personal house. Over the past five years, the allegations against the President have grown to include a long list of impeachable offences, but he is backed by the majority and by Luthuli House every step of the way.

 

If the DA is relentlessly asking difficult questions it is because the President has a lot to answer for. Yet the truth is this: To suggest that there must be a friendly atmosphere in this House is completely irrelevant to whether or not the President must obey his constitutional obligation. Therefore, hon members, I am telling you that we did not want to move this amendment. We believe that we must in fact censure the President.

 

We are forced to put that censure to the President to send a strong message to President Zuma that he must appear. We must send a message that the Parliament of the Republic of South Africa is a proud and independent defender of our Constitution. Let us not be co-opted into the agenda of Luthuli House but stand as Parliament and protect the institution. Vote to censure the President. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

 

 

 

 

Dr M S MOTSHEKGA

 

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION

 

 

Dr M S MOTSHEKGA: Hon Deputy Speaker and hon members, yesterday we welcomed the multiparty agreement facilitated by the hon Cyril Ramaphosa, Leader of Government Business. The agreement sought to reaffirm Parliament as the representative of the people, with the responsibility to ensure government by the people under the Constitution, to restore the dignity, integrity and standing of this Parliament and to end disruptions, which have come to characterise the sittings of this House.

 

The ANC is completely taken aback by the DA’s decision to proceed with its proposed motion of censure against His Excellency President Jacob Zuma, in spite of their participation in the agreement reached at yesterday’s meeting by parliamentary parties. They are reneging on this agreement a mere 24 hours after it was agreed on. The DA acted dishonestly and dishonourably and they undermined the entire political intervention by the hon Deputy President. [Applause.]

 

The dishonest and dishonorable conduct of the DA confirms that they are responsible for the distraction from the dignity, integrity and standing of this Parliament. [Applause.] The conduct of the DA has brought this Parliament and our country into disrepute. [Applause.] They are destroying the culture of substantive, quality debates, introducing insulting language and personal attacks on the Speaker of this House and the President and the culture of disrupting the House each time they differ from the ANC.

 

By reneging on the multiparty agreement, the DA shows that they have no interest in the joint effort to rescue Parliament from further decay by restoring orderliness in the House and in the preservation of the integrity of Parliament and making the institution functional. It is a slap in the face of all parties involved in this process. The DA’s conduct clearly illustrates that it cannot be trusted as a ... [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, order! Allow the member to speak!

 

Dr M S MOTSHEKGA: ... cannot be trusted as a reliable and mature negotiating partner. I therefore stand here on behalf of the ANC, our glorious movement, to bury the motion of censure and to call for the revival of the report of the Powers, Privileges and Immunities Committee. [Applause.]

 

The ANC cannot subject the Deputy President of the ANC and the country to the hon Maimane, who is deliberately misleading the leaders of other political parties. Hon Maimane is a dishonest and a dishonourable man, who cannot be trusted as a negotiating partner. [Interjections.]

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order!

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, hon member! Hon member, please take your seat! Hon Motshekga, you know you are not supposed to use the language that you are using. Please withdraw what you said.

 

Dr M S MOTSHEKGA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I withdraw and reaffirm that the conduct of the hon Maimane is dishonest and dishonourable. [Interjections.] The DA’s conduct ... [Interjections.]

 

Mr M WATERS: Hon Deputy Speaker, on a point of order!

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member ... [Interjections.]

 

Dr M S MOTSHEKGA: I am referring to the conduct, not the person! [Interjections.] All right, I withdraw! I withdraw! I withdraw! The conduct of the hon Maimane has rendered yesterday’s agreement meaningless, unworkable and null and void. [Applause.] As the ANC, we call on the DA to accept responsibility for wanting this Parliament not to work as an honourable Parliament. [Applause.]

 

The ANC wishes to take this opportunity to reaffirm the duty of the President and members of the executive to appear before and account to this House. Secondly, we want to place on record that proper accounting to this House requires a conducive climate and orderliness, which are characteristics of a modern and civilised legislature. [Interjections.]

 

We note that President Zuma and his Cabinet members have always been and remain prepared to appear before this House and account properly. [Applause.] Since the opening of this term, President Zuma has appeared more than three times. [Interjections.] And we must place on record that President Zuma was forced, prevented, inhibited and impeded from participating in this House. [Interjections.]  

 

Mr G G HILL-LEWIS: Sorry, Deputy Speaker, on a point of order!

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Motshekga, please take your seat. Yes, hon member, proceed.

 

Mr G G HILL-LEWIS: Will the hon member please tell us exactly when the President was in this House? [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Motshekga, will you respond?

 

Mr G G HILL-LEWIS: Hon Deputy Speaker, will the hon member take a question?

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Motshekga?

 

Dr M S MOTSHEKGA: No, I will not take a question. I passed exams a long time ago. I do not need another examination! [Interjections.] Hon members, we must tell the people of South Africa and the world that the motion of censure brought by the DA is repugnant to the spirit and letter of the agreement of all the political parties that met yesterday. The authors of this absurd and irrational motion have short memories. What we should be debating today is what we need to do to remedy the image of this Parliament. [Interjections.]

 

My friends on the left must be told upfront that their constitutional illiteracy has brought us to where we are now. [Applause.] They must be told that we would not be where we are had they understood the Constitution, which says that the Public Protector can take remedial action but remedial actions of the Public Protector are not binding and enforceable. They came running here with the slogan “pay back the money” on the basis of a misunderstanding of the Constitution of the Republic. [Applause.] The ANC took the view that those remedial actions are not binding and enforceable and the Western Cape High Court vindicated us. So your campaign has fallen flat on its stomach. [Applause.]

 

You also need to be reminded that this Parliament operates on the basis of the rule of law. [Interjections.] The ad hoc committee established by this House has come up with the road map to deal with the security safeguards at Nkandla. Therefore, the noise that you make about Nkandla is irregular because there is a road map in terms of which the matter will be addressed and be brought back to this Parliament. [Interjections.]

 

An HON MEMBER: Where is the President? Answer that question! [Interjections.]

 

Dr M S MOTSHEKGA: Your misunderstanding of the Constitution and the law has created political and moral degeneration in this Parliament and it has created a hostile environment, which makes it impossible for the Speaker of the House and the President to operate before this House. [Interjections.] Therefore, you must take responsibility for what is happening in this House.

 

I also want to remind you, with due respect, that we are living in a constitutional state. [Interjections.] We do not wake up every morning and create new rules. All of you know that this Parliament has a Rules Committee. If you want to change the Rules, go and make proposals to the Rules Committee and do not sit here and try to change the Rules. I must tell you upfront that there is no factual, legal or constitutional basis for the President to be censured. So, you have no basis for a motion of censure. Go and forget! [Time expired.] [Applause.]   

 

 

 

 

Mr J H STEENHUIZEN

 

Dr M S MOTSHEKGA

 

 

 

Mr J H STEENHUISEN: Deputy Speaker, you know, I always feel very sorry for the hon Motshekga. It must have been so humiliating to be publicly sacked as the Chief Whip, and he has been singing for redeployment in this House ever since. Shame on him! [Interjections.]

 

Let us just debunk the Deputy President’s suggestion that the DA has reneged on the agreement. I do not know whether the members on that side of the House have actually read the agreement, but if they had read it carefully ... [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Please, hon members, you are not allowed to do what you are doing. You know that, so do not do it.

 

Mr J H STEENHUISEN: ... they would know for sure that in fact this motion underscores everything that was in this agreement yesterday when it comes to parliamentary accountability. But you know we know, because the ANC’s caucus leaks like a sieve. We know what happened in that caucus last night. The Deputy President got excoriated by the radicals in his party. [Applause.] [Interjections.] He needs an out, and he is trying to pin it on the DA. Shame on him!

 

Hon Sizani said he was shocked that we moved our motion. Well, that is very strange because it was by agreement with all the Whips yesterday. This motion before us today is about constitutional accountability. It is about upholding the Rules of Parliament. If Rule 111 is allowed to fall, it has the potential to unstitch all the Rules. We are not calling for the President to be fired, but we are calling for this House to express its dissatisfaction that he has violated the Rules of Parliament.

 

The problem is that the ANC is running out on their constitutional duty and the Deputy President and hon Motshekga would have us come here and say, we are very, very grateful, thank you very much for agreeing to get the President, the executive and the Speaker to do what they are obliged to do in terms of the Constitution. There is nothing special in that! Is it not funny that when members on this side of the House break the Rules, they are named, suspended and set upon by the jackboot-clad police force and beaten up for upholding democracy!

 

So, today, in this debate and on this Vote, you are either for this House defending the Constitution or you are for this House defending the President; you are for this House upholding the Rules on a fair and consistent basis or you are for the Rules only applying to members of the opposition; you are either for holding the President to account or you are allowing him to get out of his accountability to this House. [Interjections.] Oh, I know a great deal about that.

 

I would urge members to actually go back and read this document. Reaffirm respect for the Rules, procedures and structures of Parliament. Work together to ensure that the Rules and procedures are applied consistently and fairly, without fear, favour or prejudice, and that includes Number One. He is not excluded. He is not immune to the Rules. So, when you do not have the Rules applying to him, why should they apply to any other member of this House?

 

You talk about us undermining the Speaker. If anything is undermining the Speaker and the rulings of this House, it is your unstitching of Rule 111 and your defence of President Zuma at all costs.

 

Mr G S RADEBE: Deputy Speaker, will the hon member take a question? [Interjections.]

 

Mr J H STEENHUISEN: I will answer questions when the President comes to answer his. [Applause.] [Interjections.]

 

The big difference between the DA and the ANC – and, boy, is there clear blue water out here today – is that the DA is the party of accountability. [Interjections.] The DA is the party of upholding the Constitution. The DA is the party for upholding the Rules of this Parliament. [Interjections.] Our principles are not for sale, like some buffalo at a game auction to the highest bidder. [Interjections.]

 

We are prepared to work with anybody to make this Parliament work ... [Interjections.] ... but we will not, under any circumstances, allow ourselves to be co-opted into this ongoing ANC racket to protect Jacob Zuma at all costs, to use this House and to abuse its Rules in order to do so. Thank you very much. [Applause.] [Interjections.]

 

 

Mr S MBATHA

 

Mr J H STEENHUISEN

 

 

 

 

Mr S MBATHA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I would like to state in advance that the EFF does not have permanent friends; we have permanent interests. If the agreement of yesterday falls apart, the biggest losers are us. We would like to state that we support the agreement facilitated yesterday morning by the Deputy President. [Applause.]

 

When we came to this House, we read the Rules, and the Rules state that the President shall come to the House four times per calendar year. That means that we are expecting the President to address us per quarter. It also means that the President – even though he is not a member of the House but is elected by the House – has an obligation to share with this House, from time to time, his thoughts, views and vision for the country. If the President is unable to come to the House, let there be a reasonable account of why the President is not able to come. If there is a problem as a result of pending political differences, the Deputy President did a wonderful negotiation job yesterday morning, and we believe that that kind of effort should be ongoing.

 

We are not the enemies of this democracy. The only thing we will not take is to be bullied and be told that we are young. We are not young; we have ideas. We want to inform our counterparts in the benches of the ANC that if you take a step back and look at everything we say, look at everything we put forward, you will see that we are not a machine of destruction. We are not a bomb waiting to go off.

 

All we ever wanted was for our views to be known because we were voted in here. If that is a problem, then it means that democracy has a different interpretation for others who have different views. Please spare a moment and think about the things we believe in, and then undertake to understand where we come from.

 

We never said we have permanent friends here but we said we would view those who agree and support our volition from time to time. Our president stood here and said we are willing to work with the ruling party, provided it is able to share many of the views we have, which are not illegal.

 

There are things that South Africans desire and wish could happen one day. In fact, the majority of the things are stated right there in your own document, in “Ready to Govern”. The majority of the things were stated right there at your 1991 conference in Durban-Westville.

 

All we ever wanted was to be told that we have views, not to be rubbished and ignored. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

 

 

 

 

 

Mr N SINGH

 

Mr S MBATHA

 

 

 

Mr N SINGH: Hon Deputy Speaker, it is a pity that everybody here is so hot under the collar. I think we need some calm in this House. Millions of South Africans are watching us and I think we have to behave with decorum and dignity in this House.

 

I want to start off with what the IFP’s leader, hon Prince Buthelezi, explained in yesterday’s meeting with the Deputy President. He said that we disagree with the idea that members of the executive will only account to Parliament if they are not criticized. Members of the executive must account to Parliament whether they are criticised or not. It is something they must accept. They must take the punch and be able to take it fairly and squarely. The Constitution and the rules of the National Assembly must be adhered to. Our view is that even when it is awkward, the executive must account to Parliament.

 

Having said that, it is a pity that tonight the hon Motshekga talked about the wrong report. We are not talking about Nkandla and we are not talking about the Public Protector. There is still a lot of debate on the Public Protector and the Constitutional Court would still have to give us a ruling on that.

 

It is also a pity that he comes here on behalf of the ruling party and says that this agreement that all the leaders of political parties agreed to is null and void. It is unfortunate that he said that because as the IFP we still believe in the terms and conditions of the agreement. We feel that it can work and we appeal to all reasonable people in this House to allow that process to take its course.

 

In cricketing parlance, when you score 111, it is called a Nelson and they say its bad luck. It is unfortunate that it is Rule 111 in our book of Rules that talks about the President having to appear in this House. We would like to see that the process that takes place next week between all leaders of political parties will resolve this impasse and that the President comes to this House to fulfil his constitutional mandate, sooner rather than later. I think that not only do we as members of this House deserve it but South Africa deserves to hear the President responding to many of the issues and questions that we raise. He only has to come here four times a year and we do not think it is difficult for him to appear in this House.

 

Having said that, we must ensure that there is decorum and respect in this House for everybody. [Applause.] Every member has a right to hear and a right to be heard. Unfortunately, that does not happen many, many times in this House.

 

Hon Deputy Speaker, as the IFP we would like to be given an opportunity later in the debate, when you put the question, to propose an amendment to the motion in terms of 96(c), and I trust that when that opportunity avails itself you will give us the opportunity to move an amendment in the House. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

 

 

 

Prof N M KHUBISA

 

Mr N SINGH

 

 

 

 

Prof N M KHUBISA: Deputy Speaker and hon members, thank you for the opportunity. At the outset, let me say that it is true that the Constitution of the country provides for the President to uphold, defend and respect the Constitution as the supreme law of the country. So, the President must defend the Constitution of the country and the President has to defend the unity of the nation.

 

However, we as members of the House also have a responsibility to ensure that we uphold the Constitution of the country. It is a twin process. We also have a responsibility to ensure that the public out there has confidence in us. I think the agreement that was reached yesterday between the Deputy President and the leaders of parties chronicled a new chapter in our Parliament, one that can take us forward if we work together and ensure that the dignity and integrity of this House is restored to where it should be. I think we can do that if we work together. It does not mean that there is anyone who is exonerated from his or her responsibility. Of course, members of the executive must come to this House to account and we have a responsibility to ensure that we conduct our oversight as members of the House.

 

Of course, it is very important that there is order in this House. When we as members of this House move motions that do not serve this House, we drown the House and of course we put this House into disarray and at jeopardy, where even the security of this House is compromised. These are all matters that should be taken cognisance of.

 

The dignity and integrity of the House is paramount. It has been severely compromised but we do have a chance to restore it if we work together. That is why, as the NFP, we believe that the steps that have been taken for the parties to come together, to work together and find a solution to ensure that we put this Parliament on track, must be honoured and taken seriously because it can help all of us. The public must have confidence in us and the executive must ensure that they come and report.

 

Of course, we want this Parliament to have the President come to the House. We have received the assurance that even before we close, the President will come to the House, but there should be order. We must conduct ourselves properly to ensure that we are able to work smoothly. From the side of the NFP, we are saying that there is still hope. We can still forge ahead together and we can still work together. We all have a responsibility to ensure that we take the process forward. All of us in this House can do something to ensure that we restore the dignity and integrity of this Parliament. I thank you. [Applause.]

 

 

 

Dr C P MULDER

 

Prof N M KHUBISA

 

 

 

 

Dr C P MULDER: Hon Deputy Speaker, this place called Parliament is a rather dangerous place. If you lose your credibility in this place, it is very, very difficult to ever get it back. We all understand and would like to see the dignity and integrity of Parliament being restored. Nobody can be against that. However, you will not succeed in doing that if you think you can address the symptoms and not the cause of the problem.

 

Nobody can differ with yesterday’s agreement. What did that agreement basically say? It basically said that we all will act responsibly, we will stay within the Rules of Parliament and we will act in that way. However, such an agreement can never mean that the opposition now becomes silenced and co-opted, and that they are not allowed to put on the table the things that they are entitled to do. [Applause.] It can never mean that. The opposition can never allow itself to be co-opted and silenced in that way. My concern is ... [Interjections.]

 

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: We don’t need you! [Interjections.]

 

Dr C P MULDER: You don’t need us? I have news for you, hon Minister. Go and read your Constitution. It says that this House is the place where the wishes of all the people in this country are heard, not only of the majority. [Applause.] Not only of the majority! You do not even know your own Constitution. [Interjections.]

 

The Constitution clearly states in section 83(b) that the President should uphold and defend the Constitution. The next point says that in doing so, he must enhance the unity of the Republic. The problem is that that is not happening. It is no use to say we want to hold the executive to account. Rule 111 says that the President should come to this House at least once a quarter. Now if you say to me, well, we are not going to do that, then why should we take any other Rule in this book seriously? Why? Tell me why? Why? [Interjections.] The hon Minister says we must behave. You see, Minister, it takes me back to the point that I started with. If you are credible, if people take you seriously and if you answer the questions being put to you, the House will behave. [Applause.] But if you do not do that, people will not respect you. If you think you can get away with R246 million of taxpayers’ money being spent on your house, people will not respect you. [Applause.]

 

My concern is that I think the ANC caucus once again listened – with all due respect – to the hon Motshekga’s advice. He gave you the wrong advice the last time as well, when he advised you on the motion of no confidence. Have you not learnt anything? [Applause.]

 

Mr M G P LEKOTA

 

Dr C P MULDER

 

 

 

 

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Dear colleagues, the entire population of South Africa is anxiously watching to see what is happening here. All of us were elected because the people of our country believed that we would deliver a working Parliament to them. What has been happening in the last few weeks is not a working Parliament. We owe it to the people of South Africa to conduct the business of this House - in fact, the two Houses - in such a way that South Africans can see that we are governing responsibly and delivering outcomes. We must make them proud that we are dealing with the issues facing them.

 

The agreement worked out yesterday between leaders of opposition parties, including the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, under the chairpersonship of the Deputy President, who is the Leader of Government Business, is the only reliable way in which we could have returned this House to orderly and productive ways.

 

Unless we go that route, we will not be able to deliver what we ought to. We must do this. We went there to find a way to normalise the situation and to stabilise Parliament. Yet, what is happening now is that we have fallen right back to where we were trying to get out of.

 

Cope makes a call that we return to the agreement that all of us worked out together. We must give it a chance to operate. Only those who do not want to see a productive Parliament can be happy with what is going on here. Many of us – it is not a blame game - have given years in exile and years of suffering in communities here. We have so many people in the country whose only hope is productive work from this House. We really owe it to them because they have given us the opportunity by putting their trust in us, to maintain and run a Parliament that is productive. I thank you, Deputy Speaker.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS

 

Mr M G P LEKOTA

 

 

 

 

The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Deputy Speaker, let me start by appealing for the following from all of us: that as we gather here to defend the integrity of Parliament and its roles, we should do so in a manner that respects the right of all who speak here to have their say without disruption. This must apply even if some of the members may be raising issues that make us feel hot under the collar. We will all have a chance.

 

Hon members, I take it that those who presided at the draft motion did so because they considered the issue to be a serious one, as we also do. Therefore, we will all accord the debate the respect and seriousness it requires. Allow me to quote from the Preamble of the Constitution:

 

We, the people of South Africa, recognise the injustices of our past; honour those who suffered for justice and freedom in our land; respect those who have worked to build and develop our country; and believe that South Africa belongs to all who live in it, united in our diversity.

 

[Applause.] I want to start with Tate Shenge and thank you for maintaining your dignity and the decorum of the House in the manner in which you have throughout this period. This applies not just to you, but to the team that was led by you. And I would like to say the same about the NFP. I would like to say the same about Cope, and I agree, hon Terror, with everything you said. I say the same to you, Dr Mulder, and to the UDM. I think that it is the right thing to do and these are some of the things we need to listen to. We must take the advice given and heed the calls that were made. I say the same to you, hon Godi, leading the APC. [Applause.]

 

Today this House, this National Assembly of our country’s legislature, has been convened once again to deliberate on an important question about the kind of society our people have fought for and whether, as the leadership, we are still on the right track towards the attainment thereof. In order to properly understand the events that led to this draft resolution, as submitted by the opposition alliance, we may need, as members, for the first time to extend a rare courtesy to one another and address the issue with honesty.

 

In the highly unlikely event that we could indeed manage to be honest, we will all agree that the motion we are called on to debate here today is not the main event, neither is it at the core of the problems bedeviling this august House, to which our people have no choice but to look for solutions to their plight.

 

With honesty, we would all quickly agree that if the issue before us was a simple one about the infringement of the Rules, then the place to start would be a debate on this. The Rules of Parliament were developed for the purpose of ensuring that Parliament is able to function and execute its mandates in an orderly and effective manner to ensure that we all, despite our different degrees of ego and differing levels of dramatisation, read from the same book regarding conduct in Parliament. This is the purpose of the Rules and the Rules should require no debate because the mechanisms to enforce the Rules are clearly established. Hon Chair, have the Rules become inadequate or have they failed in their purpose? My answer is no.

 

Hon members, as I indicated, our Rules and the various mechanisms for enforcement are not in question, not even by the presenters of this motion. Why then is it that the debate on the alleged infringement of the Rules is subject to a dramatic event of debate in Parliament? After all, we taught you the meaning of the word democracy. [Applause.] We actually drafted this Constitution together. In fact, in whose interest is this whole drama in this Parliament unfolding? To understand the reasoning behind this motion, we need to go back to the questions about what happened on our way to the 5th Parliament of our country.

 

Immediately after the conclusion of our elections earlier this year, we had some of the parties represented here vowing to bring a disruptive stint to the term of Parliament. This was characterised by pronouncements ranging from such simple matters as the dress code and a refusal to accept official accommodation in Parliament to the grand scheme of frustrating Parliament to move on an issue of utilising its own rules.

 

We also had certain members who continue to push a motion of no confidence in the President, which they started in the previous term despite the fact that this President has just been re-elected and given the real motion of confidence by the people that matter: the voters of the country. [Applause.]

 

This, however, did not stop them because what they are really after is something that is not about the people or the Rules of the House. [Interjections.] It was bigger and it is the main event. In other words, we have heard since day one, when we were sworn into this House, a group of people were bent on ensuring that if they were not elected by the majority of the people, then they would make sure that they render this Parliament unworkable. In order to achieve this, the opposition has vowed that, provoked or not, they will undermine the Rules of this House and that they should be allowed to do so with impunity. Why is it that when a clear demonstration of ungovernability and disregard of Rules is done day in and day out in this very House by members of the opposition, we end up discussing the sanctioning of the President for infringing the Rules

 

Mr D J MAYNIER: Deputy Speaker, will the Minister take a question?

 

The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Yes, I will, on condition that it does not take my time, Deputy Speaker.

 

Mr D J MAYNIER: Deputy Speaker, the Minister is giving us a lecture on complying with the Rules. [Interjections.] Will the Minister explain why she herself does not comply with the Rules? [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Minister, please proceed. You will not be given any extra time.

 

The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Thank you very much. Hon members, if we were serious about sanctions and respect for the Rules, if we were honest, then we would correctly have pointed out that the nonappearance of the executive or of any office member was caused deliberately by the opposition, the big intention being to call for the collapse of government - and that is the main event.

 

If we were honest, we would know that the President indeed did appear before this Parliament as required and was stopped -against the provisions of the Rules - from speaking. In fact, of the six questions he was only able to respond to two of those because of the disruption in the debate. [Interjections.] Truth be told, there are hon members who thrive on chaos. [Interjections.] Since 1994 it is the first time in this Fifth Parliament that there is that kind of behaviour and conduct.

 

Truth be told, we have adopted a reconciliatory approach, a reconciliatory tone, since 1994. We have sat in this Parliament with some of the worst murderers, but not once did a member of Parliament take the podium and make accusations, labeling people murderers and yet we were sitting here with murderers. [Applause.]

 

What is this we are dealing with? What is this? What we are seeing here is a surge of racism and sexism. [Interjections.] That is what we are seeing, unfortunately, if truth be told.

 

An HON MEMBER: Where is the President? [Interjections.]

 

The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: The President is in Botswana and he is leading a Bi-National Commission.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, members!

 

The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: The manner in which we are conducting business is such that we are heightening tensions. And if I may say this, by the way: Even on the left here, in particular from the DA, it is not everybody who is behaving in the manner in which some of you are behaving. You simply have a small group, perhaps a pack of five young men, who are bent on disrespecting the decorum of the House - five young men who have absolutely no idea how this freedom came about. [Applause.] You read about it in the history books. [Applause.]

 

Some of us had to fight – we had to fight to make sure that today you are where you are and to make sure that you can even marry a White woman, a Black woman, a Coloured woman and an Indian woman. [Applause.] It was not a coincidence that those of us who fought for the freedom of our people place the unity of this nation at the forefront of the definition of our goal. It is because we know the pain and suffering of a nation at each other’s throats, killing each other for the cause only known by leaders of agitation. What we are flirting with is more serious than the unquenchable threats to See Zuma gone. [Applause.] [Interjections.]

 

 

Mr S N SWART

 

The MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS

 

 

 

 

Mr S N SWART: Hon Deputy Speaker, we all know what the Constitution requires and that is accountability by the executive to Parliament. Other speakers have referred to Rule 111, which requires that Questions must be answered. President Zuma cannot escape this constitutional duty by the majority party saying that he must first be accorded respect before he answers Questions.

 

If members of the EFF are charged with contempt of Parliament for disobeying the Rules of the House, then similarly President Zuma should be held accountable for failing to comply with his constitutional duty to answer Questions at least once a term. [Applause.]

 

I understand the DA’s sentiment but, you see, it is not that easy, because the wording at the moment talks about “censure”. A censure is a penalty which follows a process. So one has to have a look and take a step back. That is why I am grateful to the IFP and I look forward to hearing the amendment that they are going to propose. I fully understand the sentiment from the DA and we support that. We all support that the President must come to account to Parliament. The word “censure” is the problem.

 

But the problem goes further. We as the ACDP fully support yesterday’s agreement. It was a wonderful way forward. We commend the Deputy President, the ANC and all political leaders. We need the elders and the leaders of Parliament to take the nation forward at this stage.

 

The problem arose because this motion was not discussed yesterday. It is a simple issue. The motion that was on the Order Paper should have been discussed and it was an omission by everyone. It is a huge issue today. The possibility is that this wonderful agreement, which the public outside is all welcoming, could possibly fall by the wayside.

 

So, this is a very straightforward issue. Let us all take a step back and, as elders of Parliament who have been here for a number of years, let us take up leadership. The nation is looking towards us at this stage and we can. Voters have voted and elected us into Parliament. They expect stability. That is why yesterday’s initiative, which was supported by all political parties, is commendable. Today we have the chance.

 

We cannot allow a motion or wordings that derail that – even though we understand the sentiment. That agreement of yesterday sets out the executive accountability. It sets it out. We are so close together, why should this cause such a division - a word here and there? I fully agree that we can find a way forward to resolve this impasse.

 

The voters outside are requiring us to resolve that. We are going to rise tomorrow and we are going to face our electorate. They are going to ask us: What did you do to bring peace and stability to this House? I believe it is a kairos moment. We can bring peace and stability to this Parliament. Let us do it. Let us do it. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

 

 

 

 

Mr S M JAFTA

 

Mr S N SWART

 

 

 

 

Mr S M JAFTA: Hon Deputy Speaker, the people of South Africa do not deserve to be treated the way this House is treating them. The AIC is unique in its formation and its character and therefore we will always approach the debates in this House differently. As the AIC, we believe that when members pose Questions to the President, they are doing that for the cause of the poor masses of South Africa. And when the President answers such Questions, he is answering to the public, not to the members per se.

 

That is why the AIC wishes to request the members of this House to engage in the battle of ideas that is necessary to shape the political landscape in favour of the poor masses of the country. We are here to represent the people. It is the manner in which we engage with each other in this House that will inform the people of this country whether we represent them, or whether we are here to pursue our own interests. We need to respect the nation, value the votes of the people and create an environment conducive to the President accounting to the public by answering Questions asked in this House.

 

When dealing with the issues in this House, we need to be realistic and honest with ourselves and with the nation and not defend the wrongdoings or corrupt practices of any member of this House. We therefore need to restore the fading confidence of the public in this House by restoring its tarnished good image and then focus on what the people sent us here to do.

 

The AIC believes that when we are in this House, all members should abide by the Rules of the National Assembly and that one Rule should not be selected and applied to one member, while the rest are disrespected by the very members seeking to enforce that one Rule. [Interjections.]

 

Given the behaviour usually displayed in this House, the AIC wishes to invite all parties represented in this House to watch patiently the steady but sure growth of the AIC while many are busy welcoming their inevitable natural death. [Interjections.]

 

While agreeing that the President needs to answer Questions in this House, as required by the Rules of the National Assembly and the Constitution, the AIC feels that for that to happen, a climate conducive to allowing the President to account to this House and to the public freely, without personal attacks, must firstly be created by the members. I thank you. [Applause.]

 

 

 

 

Mr M A PLOUAMMA

 

Mr A M JAFTA

 

 

 

 

Mr M A PLOUAMMA: Hon Deputy Speaker, AgangSA believes that truth and justice cannot be shaken by anything. The Zuma presidency has become an irritating sore on our body politic. It is clear that the President ... [Interjections.]

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Deputy Speaker, on a point of order!

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Plouamma, please take your seat first.

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Deputy Speaker, this hon member should at least show the minimum respect for the President. You call him a “Zuma Presidency”.

 

Mr M A PLOUAMMA: I said ... [Interjections.]

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Is that his name and is that how you refer to the President?

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Continue, hon member. [Interjections.]

 

Mr M A PLOUAMMA: Hon Deputy Speaker, let me rephrase that: The hon Zuma Presidency has become an irritating sore on our body politic. It is clear that the President is either scared or he has become parliament-phobic. This is the result of a compromised man lacking in moral leadership, seduced by fraudsters and shadowy characters. The hon President is frustrated and therefore he is not thinking straight. [Laughter.] This means this country has no leadership.

 

Hon members, we must live or die as defenders of this Constitution. We must defend it from any threat, be it corruption or the abuse of power. This Parliament should not be reduced to being a snake that gnaws itself or to being a lion without teeth. The incompetence of the hon President cannot be washed by white snow or a white cloth; the stain of blood is too much.

 

While AgangSA supports the endeavour by the Deputy President to stabilise this House, it should not be a licence to hide the President from his responsibilities. [Applause.]

 

Hon Deputy Speaker, I want to tell these hon members that we should not be reduced to cowards but we must be brave and face the truth at all cost. I thank you. [Applause.]

 

 

 

 

Mr T GODI

 

Mr M A PLOUAMMA

 

 

 

 

 

Mr N T GODI: Hon Deputy Speaker, in our meeting with the Leader of Government Business yesterday, we agreed among other things on the need to restore the decorum of this House by seeking to do things differently. We all agreed, we all committed and we raised the expectations of the nation that drama, disruptions and disrespect of the Rules for the past five months is a thing of the past. So, why this debate?

 

We are having this debate, because the DA has failed a simple test of integrity. [Applause.] It raises questions about whether we can reliably engage with the DA without them always seeking an advantage. Political grandstanding has been the norm since the inception of the Fifth Parliament. [Interjections.] This motion, therefore, must be seen in that context. There is no substance; it is merely an opportunity to grandstand. The APC calls on the DA and its friends to be positive, constructive and forward-looking. They must abandon their senseless attempts to humiliate the President of the Republic at every turn. [Applause.] [Interjections.]

 

The APC wants the executive to fully account to Parliament, but we all have a duty to ensure that such an exercise must be to address the issues that affect the lives of the people who voted us to be here. We must not seek to use the platform for theatrics and to show disrespect for the Office of the President. [Applause.]

 

Let me take this opportunity to congratulate the EFF. I think that the EFF was responsive to the processes that unfolded yesterday and that needs to be acknowledged. [Interjections.] I would say from the APC to the comrades in the EFF, let us be more ideological in our approach, whether strategic or tactical, than transactional. [Interjections.] I understand the tactical flexibility, but all I am saying is that the true enemies of African progress are this side. [Applause.] We should never do anything that enhances and strengthens their position. Thank you. [Applause.]

 

 

 

 

Mr M WATERS

 

Mr N T GODI

 

 

 

 

Mr M WATERS: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Godi needs to know that if he sells his soul to the devil, he will always remain with one seat, at best. That is why when he came into this House, he only got a quarter of a seat and not even a full seat. He should be standing at the back of Parliament. [Applause.]

 

Hon Deputy Speaker, the Minister of Defence and Military Veterans said that she taught us the meaning of democracy.

 

HON MEMBERS: Yes! Yes!

 

Mr M WATERS: Well, she must have a very warped understanding of the word, because her party supports the storming of Parliament by the riot police. [Applause.]

 

The hon Minister also said the opposition is undermining the Rules of this House. It is not us that are refusing to come and answer questions, but it is the President and the leader of your party. It is not us who come to this House in the afternoon, after agreeing to a programme in the morning, and try to undermine and change that programme. It is the Speaker of this House, the chairperson of your party, who comes here with a blatant political agenda. [Interjections.]

 

Each one of us has sworn an oath when we entered this House. We swore to respect and uphold this Constitution. [Interjections.] We swore to perform our functions as members of the National Assembly. If every member were true to their oath, they would vote in favour of this motion tonight. The fact of the matter is clear, Rule 111(1)(a) of the parliamentary Rules makes it clear that the President must come to Parliament to answer questions at least once per quarter. But more importantly the Rules are backed up by the Constitution of South Africa. Taking the oath is not an excuse to simply get dressed up and stand here before the Chief Justice. It is the commitment and an obligation to defend our Constitution when it is under threat and undermined.

 

So, when the President refuses to come before Parliament to answer questions, he is assaulting our Constitution. When the chairperson of the ANC, in her deployed capacity as the Speaker of the National Assembly, refuses to ensure that the Constitution and the Rules of Parliament are upheld, she too is complicit in undermining this Constitution - the very Constitution they both swore an oath to protect.  

 

This is the time for all of us to stand united, to stand up and be counted by protecting our Constitution. [Interjections.] When you all stood here on the floor of Parliament in May, it must have crossed your minds that when the time comes you would fight for the right and defend our Constitution. Well, members, that time has arrived and the time is now. Now is the time to put political differences to one side and say never, never and never again will one person be allowed to trample our Constitution for his own enrichment and greed.

 

It is obvious for all to see that if you do not vote in favour of the motion today, you are voting against the Constitution, you are voting against the democratic order and you are voting against an oath you took in this House six months ago. [Interjections.]

 

The ANC’s desperate plan to have this debate stopped is an embarrassment to the party and an indictment on our Constitution. To the ANC Members of Parliament, I simply say, shame on you! [Interjections.] Shame on you! Shame on you! Shame on you! Shame on you! Shame on you! [Interjections.]

 

The actions of President Zuma and his servants here in Parliament today are an insult to the oath of office we all took. You all raised hands and you are now betraying your oath, simply to protect one man. Your deception as an ANC caucus to shield number one from answering questions for his alleged corruption acts is despicable. You have allowed one man to corrupt our country, to corrupt your party and to corrupt this Parliament.

 

The fact of the matter is that you desperately wanted this debate to be stopped because you have nothing left to say to defend the President, and the two previous speakers from the ANC tonight are proof of that. You have tried to protect the President by manipulating the Ad Hoc Committee on Nkandla and by not allowing questions to him. You have deployed the chairperson of your party to the Speaker’s chair and her sole aim is to protect the President and undermine the Rules of this House. You have sent riot police into this House to assault and intimidate opposition MPs.

 

You have tried all these things and failed. In fact every time the ANC has tried to cover up the stink of Nkandla, it has just made it worse. You simply can no longer defend the indefensible. The ANC wanted to stop this debate because they know that there is no defence for what the President is doing and you were scared of this debate simply because you had nothing else to say to defend yourselves. [Applause.]

 

The stench of corruption is thick in the air and there is nothing you can do any longer to disguise that stench. How can it be that a party with 62% of the seats in this House is so intimidated by an opposition? How can you be so intimidated? [Interjections.] They are running with their tails between their legs, scared of what they have created and scared of what it has become.

 

So, I want to ask the members of the ANC: What will you tell your grandchildren one day about today? How will you explain how you broke the oath that you took and trampled on this Constitution? [Interjections.] How is it possibly acceptable that the President does not answer Questions in this House and you do nothing about it? [Interjections.] You have run away from your obligations. The only way out of the ANC was to try and stop this debate and filibuster for as long as possible. They know there is no way to defend President Zuma’s actions and they are too cowardly to do the right thing, to vote and censure the President. [Interjections.]

 

So, when it comes to the crunch, the voters need to know that the ANC members will choose the party over the Constitution. [Applause.] They must remember that the next time at the ballot box. If any of you have any sense left, fire this President and redeploy your chairperson to Luthuli House where she belongs. I thank you very much. [Applause.]

 

 

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES RESPONSIBLE FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT

 

Mr M WATERS

 

 

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES RESPONSIBLE FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hope that the members of the opposition will listen instead of just barracking. We are here to debate a motion in the name of the Leader of the Opposition, which notes that the President has failed to comply with the Rules and to censure him. [Interjections.] The Leader of the Opposition said in a tweet, which was retweeted by your leader, Helen Zille, that it is of importance to the future of our democracy that this motion be debated tonight. Why? That is the question. [Interjections.]

 

Remember that we had elections in May and in those elections the ANC, led by President Zuma, had an overwhelming victory, obtaining 62% of the votes. [Applause.] So, everybody knew that they were voting for a second term for President Zuma. [Interjections.] The problem is that since the start of this Fifth Parliament, we have had numerous disruptions. There have been insults ... [Interjections.] I will get to the police just now. There have been disruptions of the House and a refusal to accept the authority of the Chair. Let us face it; a House of over 400 people is difficult to manage. But the Speaker, hon Mbete, has presided over the House before, in the Third or the Second Parliament, Third or Fourth Parliament, without problems. Why the problem now? [Interjections.]

 

An HON MEMBER: Because she is the chairperson of the ANC!

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES RESPONSIBLE FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: We have had the police in this House and a big issue has been made about it, but it is provided for in terms of the Powers, Privileges and Immunities of Parliaments and Provincial Legislatures Act, section 11, which says that the police may arrest anyone on the order of the Speaker or the person designated by the Speaker. [Interjections.]

 

The issue really is - I understand some DA members got hurt - why did you take it upon yourselves to try and physically chase the police out? What arrogance! Do you think you know more about the Rules of this House than the Rules themselves? It was arrogance. [Interjections.]

 

Anyway, we have had all these problems. Yesterday, led by the Deputy President, we had an opportunity to try and resolve the problems in the House. [Interjections.] The Deputy President very much walked the extra mile, meeting with the leaders of the opposition parties. He then had to go off to Lesotho to deal with problems there. The agreement was, among other measures, to reaffirm the principle of executive accountability, which requires that all the members of the executive appear before Parliament as required by the Rules, and to work together to ensure a climate in Parliament that enables members of the executive to appear before Parliament and account properly. And then this team was set up. So, why this motion? Why do you want to censure the President for not appearing? [Interjections.] When the President came here, this House could not complete its business and there was no indication that that was not going to happen again. [Interjections.] So, the purpose of this agreement was to work together to ensure a climate that enables members of the executive to appear before Parliament.

 

Now, unfortunately, and we have heard from all the other parties, I think, bar AgangSA - I am not sure if anybody knows who AgangSA is because they voted for somebody else - [Interjections.] ... but all the other parties in the House supported the agreement. It has only been the DA that did not. And I argue that this motion before the House is in contradiction and in violation of this agreement. This motion has been brought before the House because the hon Leader of the Opposition could not stand up to his party. And I want to say to the hon Leader of the Opposition, lead the DA or step aside. [Applause.]

 

First of all, the complaint has been made quite often and members of the DA have said the President is in violation of the Constitution. The Constitution does not say anything about him physically appearing. It is about the fact that the President must account to the House. [Interjections.] Hon members, I would suggest that you listen!

 

In terms of Rule 111, it is correct, the President should answer Questions four times a year. [Interjections.] And it is a must; that is not a problem. We have been told by the hon Steenhuisen that if we allow this section to fall ... [Interjections.] Can you just listen, please! Hon Deputy Speaker, can I be protected please. I mean ... [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, allow the member to speak! [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES RESPONSIBLE FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: We have been told by the hon Steenhuisen that if this Rule is allowed to fall, we will not be upholding democracy. Now, as you know, it is an election year. We had ... [Interjections.] Oh! You have forgotten about the elections? Yes, I know that because you do not want the President to be President. [Interjections.] But basically in the first quarter, we had the state of the nation debate and there was no time for Questions. The second quarter was the Budget Votes and there was no time. In the third quarter the President came, but he was unable to complete his answers and that issue needs to be resolved before he can come again, which is what the point of this is. [Interjections.]

 

Now, you make such a big issue about this. This Rule was started in 2002. In 2003 President Mbeki came to Parliament four times to answer Questions in this House. In 2004, which was also an election year, President Mbeki came once. [Interjections.] I do not remember what any of you said. In the period 2005 to 2007 he came three to four times, because it was difficult. In 2009, President Zuma came twice, in 2010 four times, in 2011 three times, in 2012 four times and in 2013 three times. So, this Rule, in the 10 years that we have had, has not been followed completely. But because President Zuma did not follow it this time, it has become such a huge issue; one that can actually destroy good relations between the opposition parties and the majority party. Hon members of the DA and all other Members in this House, the Constitution and the Rules are not a jersey that you can put on and take off when you feel like it. [Applause.]

 

So, hon Waters, Deputy Chief Whip, Rule 49, which deals with “The precedence of the presiding officer” says:

 

Whenever the presiding officer rises during the debate, any member then speaking or offering to speak shall resume his or her seat and the presiding officer shall be heard without interruptions.

 

Why, hon Waters, Deputy Chief Whip of the DA, could you not follow that? [Interjections.] Then there is Rule 53, “Member to withdraw from the precincts of parliament”, which says:

 

A member ordered to withdraw from the Chamber or suspended or named, shall withdraw from the precinct.

 

Why was it, hon Leader of the Opposition, or hon Waters, that you could not abide by that Rule? So, it is all very rich to say how important these Rules are, but you actually only follow these Rules when they suit you. [Applause.]

 

Incidentally, hon Chief Whip of the DA, we try here to play the ball and not the person. I think that your personal remarks against Members of our House are distasteful. [Interjections.] I would caution you to remember, hon Chief Whip, why you are no longer the Leader of the DA in KwaZulu-Natal. [Interjections.] Basically, this debate is really a waste of time. [Interjections.]

 

An HON MEMBER: You are the waste of time!

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES RESPONSIBLE FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: It is going against the agreement that was made; an agreement to work together to resolve the problems and restore the decorum in this House. Unfortunately, for reasons known to the DA – but probably related to the conservatism, racism and whatever else within the party - they wanted to undermine this agreement. That is the only reason or conclusion one can draw from why we have to have a motion censuring the President when the agreement that was made was that we would work together to ensure that the climate in Parliament enabled members of the executive to appear before Parliament.

 

Incidentally, we are not trying to shield anyone from answering Questions. [Interjections.] Remember as well that the President can also take written Questions, which he does, as do Ministers. So, really, this motion is a complete waste of time. I would again say to the hon Maimane, lead the DA as the Leader of the Opposition or step aside. I thank you. [Applause.]   

 

 

 

 

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION

 

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES RESPONSIBLE FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT

 

 

 

 

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: I would be tempted to respond to the hon Jeffery’s hot air but I choose not to personalise this debate. [Interjections.] Hon members, you could come here today and you could raise insults, but here is the truth. The last two months of the Chief Whips’ Forum have been about nothing else but asking when President Zuma is coming. What is factually true is that if all of us took the oath to defend the Constitution, it would be our finest moment if we vote to censure the President who is failing in that duty. [Interjections.]

 

Hon members, I ask you this: People have argued in this place, saying the climate must not deteriorate. But if we did not care enough about the issues in this place, then we must debate them in soft ways. We absolutely care that the President comes here! We care about accountability and we care about the people of this country! If you care about South Africa and put the Constitution first, you will vote for this motion and you will say, in the name of the deal, that in fact we cannot proceed. The deal must uphold the censure! We want to be a part of it, because we want South Africa to succeed! Let us not fail this country at this time, I ask you, hon members! [Applause.] [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, hon members! Order!

 

Debate concluded.

 

Amendment put.

 

Mr N SINGH: Deputy Speaker, I request to be recognised in terms of Rule 96(c) and request that you give your permission to allow me to move an amendment to the draft resolution, as tabled on the Order Paper. May I do so?

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Proceed, hon member.

 

Mr N SINGH: Deputy Speaker, I move the following amendment:

 

That all the words after “That” be replaced with the following:

 

The House -

 

(1)        notes that the President answered questions for oral reply on 21 August 2014, but could not complete his responses owing to grave disorder in the House;

 

(2)        further notes that it is not ideal that the President has not been able to answer questions in the current term;

 

(3)        recognises the need for the executive to account to Parliament;

 

(4)        acknowledges the attempts aimed at dealing with some of the political challenges currently causing an impasse in Parliament; and

 

(5)        resolves that all political parties work together to find common ground on matters affecting Parliament and its functioning.

 

Question put: That the amendment moved by Mr N Singh be agreed to.

 

Division demanded.

 

The House divided.

 

Amendment put.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Chief Whip, on what point are you rising?

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Speaker, we have discussed this amendment. We have agreed with the IFP that there is a problematic line in the amendment, and we have agreed we must amend it before we can vote for it, otherwise it cannot be accepted. [Interjections.]

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: With respect, the voting session has been called already. The time for amendments has now passed. It should have been prior to the division being called. [Interjections.] The bells have been rung; the voting consoles are ready. It is impossible to move a motion now. We must vote. They must move a further amendment if they want to, or vote against this one.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Let me ask for advice. [Interjections.] Hon members, I am going to draw your attention to what I recounted earlier on, and this is what it says. Please listen to me carefully and then exercise your vote according to your views, right now. Agreed, hon members? [Interjections.]

 

When requested to do so, members must simply indicate their vote by pressing the appropriate button below the “Yes”, “No”, or “Abstain” signs. If a member inadvertently presses the wrong button, the member may thereafter press the correct button. The last button pressed will be recorded as the member’s vote when the voting session is closed.

 

The question before the House is that the amendment to the motion, as moved by Mr Singh, be agreed to. Are all members in their allocated seats? Voting will now commence.

 

Mr J J MAAKE: Deputy Speaker, I want to check if a person can vote twice.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, you cannot.

 

Mr J J MAAKE: The Agang member voted twice. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, it will be reflected as one vote. [Interjections.]

 

Mr M A PLOUAMMA: Deputy Speaker, I made a mistake. [Laughter.] [Interjections.] I made a mistake. I did vote on ... hon Mphethi, I made a mistake.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You will have to approach the Table later so that it is drawn to our attention. [Interjections.] All right. [Interjections.] Why are you throwing your hands up, hon member? [Interjections.]

 

Mr S C MNCWABE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I, the hon Mncwabe, also committed the same mistake. I voted from the wrong seat, but I have corrected that at my seat. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Which seat was that? From which seat did you vote incorrectly?

 

Mr S C MNCWABE: It was the one next to the hon Khubisa. [Interjections.]

 

Mr M C MASINA: Hon Deputy Speaker, my “No” button is not working. Can I get the technicians to come and help me so that I can sort it out? Thank you.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, it is all right. We know that is no. That is noted. Hon members, the voting session is now closed.

 

Ms X S TOM: Deputy Speaker, my machine is not working. [Interjections.]

 

Ms N N MAFU: Hon Deputy Speaker, the voting machines in this row are not working. [Interjections.]

 

[TAKE IN RESULTS FROM MINUTES.]

 

Amendment not agreed to.

 

Dr C P MULDER: Hon Deputy Speaker, I am rising on a point of order: You’ve just indicated the result of this vote. When you put the question and you gave your ruling in terms of the Ayes or the Nos, you ruled that the Ayes have it.

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes.

 

Dr C P MULDER: You are clearly completely wrong. There were only 26 Ayes, Deputy Speaker. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, that is not a point of order. Yes. [Laughter.] [Applause.] Hon members, we now move the motion in the name of the Leader of the Opposition.

 

Question put: That the motion as moved by the Leader of the Opposition be agreed to.

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, the DA would like to make a declaration. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, we have just had a debate, and we will not proceed to declarations. [Interjections.]

 

Division demanded.

 

The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: Deputy Speaker, could they please reset the buttons on this side? We want our “No” here, please. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! All right, they will do so, hon Minister. Voting will now commence. [Interjections.]

 

Mr N SINGH: Deputy Speaker, I am sorry but now the lights are not working on this end. [Interjections.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: All right. Hon members, the system could not take the pressure anymore. It is taking a short break. [Laughter.] [Interjections.] Yes, it needed a breather. We will now proceed with the voting. [Interjections.] Order! Order, hon members! Wait for the results. Order! [Interjections.] Hon members ...

 

The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Hon Deputy Speaker ...

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am addressing this place ...

 

IsiZulu:

... ungixubha ngidla.

 

English:

Hon Minister?

 

The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Hon Deputy Speaker, how is it that we can vote on a motion by a man who is not in the House? [Interjections.] [Laughter.]

 

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hon member. It is done. [Interjections.]

 

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, just in response to this: How do we vote on a motion about a man who has not been in this House for months? [Interjections.]

 

[TAKE IN FROM MINUTES.]

 

Motion accordingly negatived.

 

The House adjourned at 10:43.

 

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