Hansard: NA: Consideration of Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report of Standing Committee pn Finance - Statistics South Africa; Consideration of request for approval of United Nations Arms Trade Treaty in terms of section 231(2) of Constitution; Consideration of Report of PC on Environmental Affairs on Public Hearings on Sustainable Development Goals, Climate Change and Rhino Killing in KwaZulu-Natal, Mpumalanga and North West Provinces
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 18 Nov 2014
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
18 NOVEMBER 2014
PAGE: 1
THURSDAY, 18 NOVEMBER 2014
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
___
The House met at 10:00.
The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
Mr M U KALAKO
The DEPUTY SPEAKER
CONDONING OF STARTING TIME OF HOUSE AS 10:00
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M U KALAKO: Deputy Speaker, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the House, notwithstanding the hours of sitting as provided for in Rule 23(2), condones its starting time of 10:00 today.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you, hon member. I now put the motion. Are there any objections? [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, there is no objection from this side of the House, but we must again make the plea that there should be consultation in advance with members of all parties, particularly the Whips, so that we are able to come into the House and have agreement.
I would again ask that the Programming Whip liaises with the Whips of other parties so that we all ad idem on what or where the programme is going.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Agreed. There being no objections, the motion is agreed to. Thank you, hon members.
Mr M U KALAKO
Mr M U KALAKO/ The DEPUTY SPEAKER
ORDER OF BUSINESS TO STAND AS REFLECTED ON ORDER PAPER
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M U KALAKO: Deputy Speaker, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the House, notwithstanding Rule 29, agrees to the order of business as reflected on the Order Paper.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I now put the motion. Are there any objections?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, I would just like to understand what that actually means? Does that mean that we are going to take motions now, or is it by the agreement that went earlier, that motions will take place this afternoon?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The usual slot for motions and other business will take place in the afternoon, in the usual manner.
FIRST ORDER/Mr M U KALAKO
The DEPUTY SPEAKER
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON FINANCE - STATISTICS SOUTH AFRICA
Mr M U KALAKO: Deputy Speaker, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
There was no debate.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The motion is that the Report be adopted. Are there any objections. No objections. Agreed to.
Motion agreed to.
Report accordingly adopted.
SECOND ORDER/Mr D C ROSS
FIRST ORDER/The DEPUTY SPEAKER
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON FINANCE – NATIONAL TREASURY
There was no debate.
Mr M U KALAKO: Deputy Speaker, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The motion is that the Report be adopted. Are there any objections? [Interjections.] There being an objection, it will be noted.
Mr D C ROSS: Deputy Speaker, the DA would like to make a declaration.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Alright! Hon members, there being a request for declarations, let us start. Who wishes to start with A declaration?
Declarations of vote:
Mr D C ROSS: Deputy Speaker, the declaration on Treasury is that the DA was pleased to note that the National Treasury received an unqualified audit opinion with findings for the 2013-14 financial year.
However, it was very disappointing further to note the findings of noncompliance with the legislation and poor internal controls within the Treasury department. The internal control deficiencies included material misstatements related to pensions for veterans, while the Financial Fiscal Commission, FFC, indicated that there were staff problems in its finance department.
We noted that the National Treasury also incurred R9 million in irregular expenditure during the financial year. Even though this was condoned by the committee, we felt that the National Treasury should be exemplary to other departments in terms of their financial management. Clearly this was not the case.
The mandate of National Treasury therefore includes proper expenditure controls in each sphere of government. The Treasury’s role in this regard is to ensure that government’s expenditure is continuously monitored.
However, it is disappointing to note that according to the Special Investigating Unit, SIU, an amount of R30 billion is being lost to corruption and wasteful expenditure on a yearly basis. The budget deficit is R153 billion for the year, with government’s debt to gross domestic product, GDP, at 46%. With contingent liabilities included, it amounts to 57% of the GDP.
We believe that this financial crisis was entirely avoidable if the issues of corruption and wasteful expenditure were adequately addressed. Analysts this morning also indicated the very problematic issue with regard to the example set by the President himself in the gross abuse of public funds related to his private homestead, Nkandla.
The primary function further with regard to the National Treasury is to support and promote economic growth. We see that growth is only coming in at 1,4% to GDP. We noted with concern that the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework expects a revenue shortfall of R61 billion over this period, with a
R10 billion shortfall that will occur in 2014-15.
The response from the committee and the National Treasury to address the revenue shortfall was very disappointing as it lacked the confidence to restore our economy, assist our economic growth and accelerate job creation. The National Treasury simply proposed – and this as a solution to this problem – increasing taxes to address the revenue shortfall.
The DA urges both the Treasury and the committee to tread very carefully with regard to increasing taxes by rather addressing corruption and eradicating wasteful expenditure as a viable option to increasing taxes. The BRRR offers us the opportunity to make meaningful influence and input with regard to the policy positions of the respective departments.
In the Treasury report, we believe, this was not done and we would like to strongly advise the Minister and the Treasury to focus on averting a tax increase to fund the government’s financial mismanagement, which South African taxpayers simply cannot afford. We will not support the report. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms S J NKOMO
Mr D C ROSS
Ms S J NKOMO: Deputy Speaker, we note that even though National Treasury and the Financial and Fiscal Commission, FFC, received an unqualified audit opinion, their financial statements still contain material misstatements and have to be corrected by the Auditor-General. This is unacceptable as such a slide in administration inevitably leads to qualified future audits. This must not be permitted to occur, and we urge greater care by National Treasury as arising from this report.
Furthermore, the R9 million incurred by National Treasury in respect of irregular expenditure during the financial year must not happen again, as National Treasury should lead by example in financial management throughout all the departments. Irregular expenditure that the FFC incurred due to noncompliance with supply chain management processes must also be corrected, and we trust that this will not occur in 2015. We support this report.
Ms N V NQWENISO
Ms S J NKOMO
Ms N V NQWENISO: Deputy Speaker, the EFF rejects the National Treasury’s Budget Review and Recommendation Report, because it is based on the National Development Plan, NDP, whose ideological underpinnings are the same as all the right-wing policies since 1994, namely Growth, Employment and Redistribution, Gear, and the Accelerated and Shared Growth Initiative – South Africa, Asgisa. They all say pursue growth first, and the rest will follow. This is narrow and has not succeeded anywhere. Trickle-down economics do not work anywhere.
We also reject the review report on the basis of a poorly conceptualised radical economic programme that does not propose any substantial changes to the country’s fiscal and monetary policies. Different ANC politicians say different things in terms of what is meant by radical economic transformation. If there is anything radical, it is the misdiagnosis of what constrains economic expansion in South Africa, and a radical misdiagnosis leads to a radical application of the wrong remedies.
We specifically believe that National Treasury and Sars, which it oversees, are failing dismally to address the occurrences of base erosion, transfer pricing and profit shifting, all of whom are costing South Africa billions of rands in tax evasion, which characterises corporations in the national resources sector. Moreover, institutions such as Sars are used to fight petty political battles, instead of focusing on ensuring that the country grows. [Interjections.] Until this is dealt with decisively, we will not agree with this BRRR. Thank you.
Mr Y I CARRIM
Ms N V NQWENISO
Mr Y I CARRIM: Deputy Speaker, if people bothered to read the report at all, and hon David Ross is particularly disappointing in that regard, absolutely everything that has been raised is in the report. In response to the issues that they raised as critiques, some of them at least are there, and we said this is what we have to do.
Now, if you look at National Treasury and its entities, all of them received unqualified reports. The material misstatements that the hon Sibongile Nkomo refers to are not major; they are minor, and we have demanded in our report - if you add this to our Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement, MTBPS, report - that there should be action plans to address the audit outcomes. So, that is being addressed.
Secondly, I want to say that tomorrow in our committee, we are looking at base erosion, and we are looking at profit shifting and transfer pricing. In fact, the G20– the very governments that are largely sympathetic to the free market - are themselves are raising this issue this very weekend. This is a matter we are addressing. We meet yet again tomorrow with the Portfolio Committee on Mineral Resources to deal with that matter.
In regard to the nature of the current crisis, it is attributed almost wholly by Mr Ross to corruption. Yes, we say in our report that corruption has to be tackled, but the problems are far larger. [Interjections.] They are, in fact, a reflection of the post-2008 global crisis - economic and financial. They are a reflection of systemic issues and structural issues that we need to address, which brings me to my response to the EFF.
In fact, contrary to what the Member of Parliament from the EFF says, the NDP is not the simple trickle-down option she is presenting. It has gone far beyond that, and it is also contested in part, not least by the alliance, to move it in the direction of the second, more radical phase of our transition. In fact, that too is being discussed by our committee, as it is by other forces.
I also want to stress also that many of the issues that the parties have raised are explicitly set out in the MTBPS report that we presented to Parliament, and our task is to do quarterly and other reports actually to monitor progress in that regard. It is not for Parliament to sit back and fold our arms and criticise the executive as if we don’t have a role as the organ of people’s power to address those issues, not only by means of oversight over the executive, but also through our own programmes.
I would also like to point out that despite all the criticism this is a sector – government and state sector – that is highly recognised globally. The Independent Regulatory Board for Auditors has been recognised as number one in the world in setting regulations for auditing. National Treasury itself is number two or number one, usually, for the last several years for openness and transparency in its information on budgets.
If you look at Sars, its turnaround time, once you have submitted your tax returns, is actually between 24 hours and 36 hours, which is number one in the world. Yes, we have difficulties in Sars. Yes, they need to be addressed, but it is far from the case that it has been thus. Thank you. [Time expired.][Applause.]
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
THIRD ORDER/Mr B A RADEBE/ Ms V VAN DYK
SECOND ORDER/ Mr Y I CARRIM
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE – COMMUNICATIONS
There was no debate.
Mr B A RADEBE: Deputy Speaker, I move:
That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Ms V VAN DYK: Deputy Speaker, the DA will not support the Budget Review and Recommendation Report of the Portfolio Committee on Communications.
Afrikaans:
Die verslag mis die oorsprong van die departement se probleme, naamlik die verpolitisering van entiteite deur kaderontplooiing.
English:
The DA made this point in the committee’s deliberations on the report last week. Ironically, ANC members accused us of politicising the committee and said that we should rather raise such matters in the National Assembly. Well, here we are, so I will say it again: The DA will stop politicising the committee when the ANC stops politicising the SABC.
Despite this, there is broad agreement in our committee that the SABC is in a mess. We are all concerned about the decline of television audiences by 10% in the last two years. We are all unhappy that the SABC is unable to get a clean audit. We were all shocked when we discovered irregular expenditure to the tune of R3,3 billion. What the ANC does not understand is that we cannot fix these problems as long as it deploys party loyalists to key positions at the SABC.
The Ellen Tshabalala qualifications saga should be a painful lesson for the ANC. We welcome the fact that the ANC has joined the DA in its efforts to hold Mrs Tshabalala accountable for the discrepancies in her curriculum vitae, but let us not forget that it was Luthuli House that deployed her to the SABC in the first place. Meanwhile, another ANC deployee, Hlaudi Motsoeneng, is wreaking havoc at the SABC, but for some reason the ANC does not have the same appetite to deal with him. Clearly, some cadres are more equal than others. When will the ANC understand that it is the deployment of cadres – full stop – that is killing the SABC? The DA cannot support a report that ignores this fundamental fact. Thank you. [Applause.] Ms A MATSHOBENI
Ms V VAN DYK
Ms A MATSHOBENI: Deputy Speaker, the EFF objects to this Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, because the separation of components into the Department of Communications, Telecommunications and Postal Services, the Media Development and Diversity Agency, MDDA, and the Government Communication and Information System, GCIS, is unnecessary, unsustainable and too costly. The Department of Communications’ mandate is to oversee and allocate funding to the SABC, the MDDA and related components.
In respect of the SABC, the department is wasting public and taxpayers’ money on never-ending bailouts. There is abuse of the public broadcaster for narrow political ends by the ruling party. The SABC is riven by corrupt practices in supply chain management, procurement and appointment of staff.
The department is failing to hold the SABC accountable, to act with transparency and inspire public trust. The SABC failed to produce programmes with local content. It prefers Western programmes instead.
As if that were not enough, we have Ellen Tshabalala who, over the weekend, was reported to have some extramural relations with Number One. [Laughter.] This lady failed at the University of South Africa, Unisa, but was employed at the SABC under false pretences that she had university... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I wish to bring to your attention that you are not supposed to use offensive language in any of the comments that you make, especially comments relating to any member who depends on this House for her removal. If you do so, you are violating the Rules as accepted. [Interjections.] I raised that because you must desist from doing so. You are not allowed to make comments about a member who depends on this House for her removal, as in this case.
Ms A MATSHOBENI: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. May I proceed? [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I have warned you, so I hope you do not proceed to do what you have done. I have warned you about it.
Ms A MATSHOBENI: I’m not going back. May I proceed?
Ms L S MAKHUBELA-MASHELE: Hon Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: The statement is very derogatory and I ask that you ask her to withdraw it. We do not know of any extramural activities of the President here. [Interjection.]
Mr M S MBATHA: Point of order, Chair... Deputy Speaker...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members... Yes, hon member, what are you rising on?
Mr M S MBATHA: I am rising on a point of order: The hon member there is intercepting your contribution about what the member must do.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I wish you would sit down. Hon members, take your seats. [Interjections.]
IsiZulu:
Mnu M S MBATHA: Ungalinge! [Don’t you dare!]
English:
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member ...
IsiZulu:
Mnu M S MBATHA: Ungalinge! [Don’t you dare!]
English:
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, take your seats.
IsiZulu:
... awuhlale phansi Mbhatha. Mhlonishwa Mbhatha, awuhlale phansi.
English:
Hon members, the language that you use in your reference to members of this House, including the President, must not be offensive, must not insinuate anything, and so on. Okay? If you do that, you are violating the Rules and I would like you to desist from doing so.
Mr M WATERS: Deputy Speaker!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What are you rising on, hon member?
Mr M WATERS: Deputy Speaker, just to get clarity and maybe guide the House, could you state the offensive words the hon member uttered and to whom they were directed, because the hon member did not mentioned anyone’s name.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members... [Interjections.] Hon member?
Mr B A RADEBE: Chairperson, Ms Ellen Tshabalala’s name was referred to and her removal from office depends upon this House, therefore we cannot cast aspersions on her unless through the proper process here in Parliament. Thank you.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, I have made a ruling on this matter and I do not wish you to proceed in that direction. Hon member, what do you want to say?
Ms A MATSHOBENI: I withdraw the name Tshabalala, but can I proceed with my declaration.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Finish up, hon member.
Ms A MATSHOBENI: The SABC has been leaping from one disaster to another, Hlaudi, Generations and selective political coverage.
We reject this Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report with the contempt that it deserves. This department has not been anything more than a defence mechanism of the ruling party and its escape into the world of criminality. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms J C MOLOI-MOROPA
Ms A MATSHOBENI
Ms J C MOLOI-MOROPA: Deputy Speaker, the new development based on the proclamation that was passed recently, has presented a very good opportunity of the separation of two departments from the former Department of Communications, which is now new Department of Communications, Telecommunications and Postal Services. This opportunity actually presented itself as a very good thing, because now the portfolio committee is able to focus thoroughly on areas that are given to the Department of Communications.
In the past, it used to be just a huge department and it was difficult to deal with such a huge load. We therefore welcome this development, because now we are able to focus per area. For example, we are dealing with the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, Icasa, the SABC, the MDDA, etc. And I might not mention all of them, as doing so would not be easy in terms of the arrangements that are in place.
As the Portfolio Committee on Communications, we refuse to be pulled into unnecessary, petty political squabbles because we have an entire oversight task that we have to do. That oversight relates to the overarching oversight particularly over the transformation of the media. We have to deal with that and we need to transform communications in this country. Based on that, we are therefore going to be focused. We will move away from the petty squabbling, and we are going to focus on the work. We are going to deal thoroughly with all the areas of the Department of Communications that we oversee and we will make every effort to deliver. I thank you very much.
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
FOURTH ORDER/ Mr M U KALAKO/ Mr Z N MBHELE
THIRD ORDER/ Ms J C MOLOI-MOROPA
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON POLICE - INDEPENDENT POLICE INVESTIGATIVE DIRECTORATE
There was no debate.
Mr B A RADEBE: Deputy Speaker, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Are there any objections? No objections. Agreed to.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, the DA wishes to make a declaration.
Declarations of vote:
Mr Z N MBHELE: Deputy Speaker, the DA supports the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report of the Independent Police Investigative Directorate, Ipid. As we know, this is a crucial institution for enforcing the accountability of police officers who perpetrate criminal acts. We need to root out any culture of impunity that exists in various pockets and at all levels in the SA Police Service by ensuring appropriate consequences in all cases where the Ipid makes a guilty finding.
We have been very troubled by the ongoing vacancies in senior posts. However, the appointment of provincial heads has been an encouraging step. The portfolio committee has received a commitment from the directorate that it would reduce its vacancy rate from the current 23% to 10% by the end of the year. And so we are looking forward to seeing that assurance realised so that we can have a stronger and more effective Ipid.
However, we still have a grave problem within the Police Service. The most recent section 9(n) report from the directorate show that in the first six months of this year there were significant increases in the more serious categories of police brutality and criminality compared to the same period in the previous financial year, including a 25% increase in rape by police officers and a 44% increase in torture. Our citizens cannot feel safe around the police with these kinds of trends, and these numbers do enormous harm to relations of trust between the police and communities.
A noteworthy aspect of this Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report is the significantly higher figures in the Western Cape compared to other provinces. In 2013-14, the highest number of recommendations to the National Prosecuting Authority for criminal prosecution of cases was generated by the Western Cape as well as the highest number of disciplinary recommendations to the SA Police Service. This is not because there are more criminal cops in the Western Cape, but the higher case numbers rather reflect a stronger infrastructure of oversight that exists generally in the province.
The Western Cape department of community safety has implemented various mechanisms to enable residents to report police misconduct and to lodge complaints, from its “Report a cop, reward a cop” hotline - accompanied by e-mail, SMS and Twitter reporting channels - to its expanded partnership programme that trains and funds community policing forums to promote and strengthen civilian oversight at sector level to the Policing Needs and Priorities consultation process that is currently under way.
It is vital that stronger oversight of this nature becomes uniform throughout the country in order to improve accountability and ensure more effective and professional policing. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr D L TWALA
Mr Z N MBHELE
Mr D L TWALA: Deputy Speaker, we have a responsibility towards Ipid. We sit in that portfolio committee. We know its inherent challenges. We are also aware that the director is new and is trying to put together a structure.
As has been alluded to, in terms of staffing the department has serious challenges. But we are hopeful that the steps the new director has taken in relation to filling those posts would help to alleviate the challenges that the structure faces.
More importantly, we need to talk to the issue of impartiality of the directorate in relation to the cases it deals with. We are still perturbed and we need to register our concern in that regard. We would urge the department to conduct its business without fear or favour.
As is proposed, it would be difficult for us to support this budget, primarily because in the past nothing happened and, naturally, we would then have to wait and see whether the measures that they have agreed to implement have been implemented. It’s only then that we would be able to judge them. We reject the report. Thanks.
Dr P J GROENEWALD
Mr D L TWALA
Afrikaans:
Dr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Adjunkspeaker, die VF Plus ondersteun die verslag. Die vraag is egter soos volg. Daar word aanbevelings gemaak, en daar word gekyk na die begroting, maar wat word van daardie aanbevelings? Die publiek van Suid-Afrika moet vertroue hê in die SA Polisiediens. Die polisiediens is daar juis om die gewone burger te beskerm teen onwettige optrede of die aantas van daardie burger se regte.
Dit is uiters kommerwekkend as ons tans sien - volgens die nuutste statistiek – dat die aantal verkragtings deur polisiebeamptes aan diens wat plaasgevind het terwyl mense in polisie-aanhouding was met 350% toegeneem het. Dit veroorsaak dat die publiek nie vertroue het in die SA Polisiediens nie. Dit veroorsaak dat lede van die publiek vrees dat hy of sy dalk in hegtenis geneem kan word, in ’n polisiesel geplaas kan word, en aan die einde van die dag dalk ook nog onskuldig is.
Daar is ook ’n toename in die aantal onwettige inhegtenisnemings. Dit beteken daar is lede in die SA Polisiediens wat nie behoorlik opgelei is nie.
Die VF Plus doen vandag ’n beroep. Die topbestuur van die SA Polisiediens moet geëvalueer word. Ons het dit al hoeveel keer gesê. Die Nasionale Kommissaris kan nie ’n politieke aanstelling wees nie. Die Nasionale Kommissaris moet ’n gesoute polisieman of polisievrou wees. Die vraag is, hoeveel verslae moet nog uitkom, hoeveel aanbevelings moet nog gemaak word voordat daar daadwerklik opgetree word sodat die publiek vertroue kan begin kry in die SA Polisiediens? Ek dank u.
Mr F BEUKMAN
Dr P J GROENEWALD
Mr F BEUKMAN: Deputy Speaker, we support the report. I must just maybe state that all political parties in the House supported this report. It is important to note that the Ipid is there to ensure independent oversight over the SA Police Service and the municipal police services, and to conduct independent and impartial investigations into identified criminal offences allegedly committed by members of the SA Police Service and the municipal police services and make appropriate recommendations.
The committee has made specific recommendations to ensure that there is improvement in terms of recommendations. The committee recommends that the Ipid tracks all recommendations to the SAPS and follows up on all such recommendations, and makes available the responses to the committee in quarterly reports. The committee also reports that Ipid must improve its performance on predetermined performance targets, especially within the Investigation and Information Management Programme. The committee welcomes the resolve of the directorate to focus on the death of its investigations in the light of the baseline cuts to the directorate’s budget over the MTEF period.
The committee also offers its full support to all efforts to enable the directorate to improve its achievement of performance targets, including the revision of the 90-day target for the conclusion of all investigations. If you analyse the statistics of the department, it is quite clear that it is only a very small percentage of policemen and policewomen who transgress the laws of this country. Of the more than 200 000 policepersons, it’s a very small percentage that is involved in crime. Therefore the Ipid is there to investigate that.
Perhaps just to reflect on our conclusion in the report, the committee also welcomes the fact that the Ipid received an unqualified audit for the second consecutive year, especially considering that it’s only the second year in which the Ipid is functioning in terms of the Act.
The committee is optimistic that the department will enjoy the same managerial stability with the appointment of the permanent executive director and that of the nine provincial heads. Very importantly, the committee also encourages the Ipid to develop and build stronger ties with the Civilian Secretariat for Police and the Police Inspectorate with a view to strengthening the oversight of the SA Police Service and the municipal police services as part of the implementation of the National Development Plan’s objectives.
The committee is of the view that the litmus test for Ipid is improved trust in the Police Service by citizens and a reduction in police criminality and brutality. The committee therefore supports Ipid in its plans to strengthen its own internal structures and symptoms with a view to improving performance and service delivery. The aim is a police service that acts in terms of the Constitution and also the implementation of the NDP. We believe the adoption of this report would contribute in that regard. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you, hon member. Hon members, the report having been adopted, we will proceed to the fifth Order of the Day. No no, the Table now insists that I must go back because you members made declarations after we adopted the report. We will do that. I now put the question: Those in favour will say “Aye”.
HON MEMBERS: Aye!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Those against will say “No”.
HON MEMBERS: No!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think the Ayes have it; clearly. The report is once more adopted unanimously. The Secretary will read the Fifth Order of the Day.
Motion agreed to.
Report accordingly adopted.
FIFTH ORDER/ Mr M U KALAKO/ Ms D KOHLER
FOURTH ORDER/ Mr F BEUKMAN
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON POLICE - SOUTH AFRICAN POLICE SERVICES
There was no debate.
Mr M U KALAKO: Deputy Speaker, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Ms D KOHLER: Hon Deputy Speaker, year after year we have the same issues that are raised by the Police portfolio committee and what the South African Police Services, SAPS, does in relation to our oversight seems to be virtually nothing. The crime statistics were released to the world this year and after last year’s debacle we expected more. Sadly, this time not only DID the National Police Commissioner declared that they were audited when they went, but she also released the incorrect figures for KwaZulu-Natal and Limpopo. They were quietly corrected on the SAPS’ website eight days later.
The Cabinet unanimously adopted the National Development Plan, NDP, but SAPS has singularly failed to introduce a single recommendation of that plan. The remilitarisation of the SAPS should never ever have been allowed. It was due to a hugely damaging decision by the National Police Commissioner of the time. The issue of the latest demilitarisation has been on the table since 2012 and the DA’s questions to the previous Minister were treated with disdain.
The fact that this committee still has to ask for endless reports from the SAPS, because getting information from them is like pulling teeth, speaks to the difficult relationship we currently have between the department and the Police portfolio committee. Why would we have to order the SAPS to provide information to us? A briefing on the crime statistics; details of the backlog of the cases; feedback on the National Firearms Registry, along with its rats and bird lice; information on what disciplinary steps were taken against those who released detainees; reaction times; border arrests; convictions; the list goes on and on and in this Budget Review and Recommendations Report, BRRR, it calls for 34 reports from the SAPS.
The sooner the current National Police Commissioner accepts, before she goes, the fact that this committee is mandated to do oversight, the better. Many of the recommendations that we as a committee have had to make to the SAPS have been made and ignored in previous years.
Should this committee have to recommend that the SAPS amend its spending priorities to reflect a higher spend on operational priorities? No, it is their core mandate. Should this committee have to recommend to the SAPS that the criminality audit continues to include 2010, 2011, 2012 and 2013? No, but we have to because someone took the decision to stop it in his tracks, and 1 448 convicted criminals, murderers, rapists, fraudsters, bigamists and the like are still working and being promoted within the service.
Reflected in this report is the fact that visible policing is invisible, crime prevention is not preventing crime, and the much awaited criminal justice system revamp is not “vamping” at all. This is an excellent BRRR, prepared by our highly qualified support staff and a new chairperson, who is immeasurably better than his predecessor.
Sadly, all it does is to highlight the failing of the SAPS management and note that the hon Minister and his Deputy are not only empty suits, but in reality once again empty seats. The DA nonetheless supports this report. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr D L TWALA
Ms D KOHLER
Mr D L TWALA: Hon Speaker, having interfaced with issues - as you know, we are new - we picked up issues that were kind of serious concern to us. It seems to us that the SAPS has primarily become the fire extinguisher for a number of issues afflicting society. The challenges that are facing South Africa as a nation are issues that require all of us, in terms of our brain capacity and ability, to work towards addressing.
It seems as if we see the SAPS as a stop gap measure through which problems are then deferred. The civilianisation of the police that is being proposed, in our view, will not change anything, primarily because the problems afflicting society, regardless of what you call the police, from generals or superintendents. The fact of the matter is that it is the same service. They are trained to conduct their business in a certain manner and they will continue to do so.
So, whatever we do cosmetically will not substantively change the essence of the SAPS. It is against that backdrop that we have a problem with this report. I thank you.
Dr P J GROENEWALD
Mr D L TWALA
Afrikaans:
Dr P J GROENEWALD: Adjunkspeaker, die VF Plus ondersteun ook hierdie verslag, want daar is baie lede in die Suid-Afrikaanse Polisiediens wat uitmuntende diens lewer, wat werklik bereid is om hul lewens op te offer om misdadigers te kan vang en aan die einde van die dag te laat boet vir hul dade.
Dit gaan nie net oor die polisiediens nie. Dit gaan oor die hele strafregstelsel in Suid-Afrika, want dit is kommerwekkend as ons kyk na die aantal misdade wat aangemeld word en, aan die einde van die dag, is daar ongeveer tussen 12% en 15% van daardie aangemelde misdade wat suksesvol in ons howe vervolg word. Daar is ’n studie gedoen, byvoorbeeld, in die geval van huisroof. Daar is in hierdie studie deur prof Zinn bevind dat ’n huisrower die kans staan om minstens 102 tot 103 huisrowe te pleeg oor ’n tydperk van 7 jaar voordat hy of sy gearresteer word.
Dit sê daar is ’n kernprobleem, en deel van daardie kernprobleem is onder meer die korrupsie wat aangegaan het en steeds plaasvind in misdaadintelligensie. Dit is waar die kern van die probleem is. As ons nie ons intelligensievermoë aanspreek in terme van ons misdaadsindikate nie gaan ons hierdie Kerstyd nog meer winkelsentrums hê wat beroof gaan word, want die intelligensie van die polisie kan nie hul werk doen nie, want daar was meer politiekery en meer politieke besluite as wat daar was misdaad behoorlik bestry is. Ons sal steeds nietemin die verslag ondersteun. Ek dank u.
Mr F BEUKMAN
Dr P J GROENEWALD
Mr F BEUKMAN: Hon Deputy Speaker, this report was supported by all political parties in the committee. This report should be seen against the NTF framework, which spells out the areas for engagement for the SAPS in the foreseeable future.
It prioritises the following: reducing levels of contact crime; contributing towards an efficient and effective criminal justice system; ensuring that South Africa’s borders are effectively protected and secured; securing cyber space; ensuring domestic stability; participating in securing the identity of all persons in South Africa; and reducing corruption in the public and private sectors.
In our report, we also highlighted those excesses specifically with regard to public policing, which we believe is improving. I also want to refer briefly to some of the recommendations we made with regard to the NDP. We were of the opinion that the Department of Police fared better during the 2013-14 financial year despite the challenges that it faced.
It received an unqualified audit and it improved its stance and Management Performance Assessment Tool, Mpat, scores. We also noted that the police is at the coalface of service delivery and there should be better links between the different units of the SAPS at all levels of the organisation to be effective. In this regard links between stations, cluster and provincial and national levels of the department are critical.
The committee also believes that the work of the Police Inspector should be highlighted and can also assist greatly with achieving professionalism and demilitarisation. In this regard, the committee is of the opinion that there can be no shortcuts towards implementing the provisions of the NDP. It should be emphasised that the SAPS must embark on the process of demilitarisation as a matter of priority.
The committee noted that the Crime Intelligence Programme is showing sufficient progress towards achieving sufficiency so that it can play its role in assisting with crime prevention. The committee will also await the details of the Integrity Management Plan to make sure that criminal elements do not find their way into the SAPS’ structure.
The committee has also noted the important role that the SAPS plays in securing the lives of all its citizens and the fact that many of them lose their lives as a result. It pays tribute to all the men and women in the SAPS who have gone beyond the call of duty and have paid with their lives to protect the lives of others. We support the report. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M A MNCWANGO
Mr F BEUKMAN
Mr M A MNCWANGO: Mr Deputy Speaker, the IFP remains steadfast in its opposition of the leadership of the Police Service by a civilian. In order to deal crime a telling blow in this country, the IFP believes that one of the things that we need to do is actually appoint a career policeman who is highly experienced to lead our fight against crime.
The second point that we want to raise is our concern about the low morale in the Police Service generally and in the senior ranks of the police in particular. As a result of that we are experiencing a deluge of resignations and the early retirement of officers who are still much needed in the Police Service to deal with the issue of crime. The IFP actually supports the report.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you did hear me saying “or woman” right? “Policeman or woman”. You don’t mind the amendment? [Interjections.] A, a, a, a, hon member, have your language gender-sensitive.
There was no debate.
Motion agreed to.
Report accordingly agreed to.
SIXTH ORDER/ Mr B A RADEBE/Mr J VOS
FIFTH ORDER/ Mr M A MNCWANGO/The DEPUTY SPEAKER
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TOURISM - TOURISM
The Mr B A RADEBE: Deputy Speaker, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the report be adopted.
Mr M WATERS: Deputy Speaker, we would like to make a declaration, but we don’t if we should do it before or after you put the question. We need some clarity.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, if you want to do a declaration, proceed!
Declarations of vote:
Mr J VOS: Mr Deputy Speaker, there are many serious obstacles facing our domestic and international tourism market. Allow me to unpack what the DA believes are the most serious issues that require attention, with some proposals.
Firstly, the implementation of the new biometric visa requirements for tourists is already proving to be a very serious obstacle for people wanting to visit our country. The impact on our economy is severe and we have proof of this. To make matters worse, the new system is also not functioning properly at many of the South African missions abroad. The solution to this is the implementation of electronic visas, because we need to streamline the facilitation of the flow of tourists to our country.
Secondly, the affordability and limited geographic spread are just some of the negative factors impacting on our domestic market. The reality is that domestic tourism figures are down by nearly three million. The solution to this is improved product development and marketing and, importantly, investment in rural infrastructure. We need to get South Africans experiencing their country by making travel affordable and accessible as this would grow the local economy and create jobs. Overall, the challenge is that there is a lack of travel culture amongst South Africans, especially among previously disadvantaged communities.
To address some of these issues there should be an audit of the current tourism products and services to obtain adequate supply for the various segments of the domestic market and also to facilitate the development of effective maintenance plans for existing tourism infrastructure under government and municipal administration.
Currently there are a number of examples of poorly developed and maintained government-funded tourist attractions that remain sorely underutilised resources. Ultimately the key focus of the Department of Tourism must cover actions and policy shifts, which are required to deal with the current discourse between tourism and poverty alleviation, because the mere fact that tourism takes place does not imply that the money trickles down to the poor. We need real measures to ensure that tourism reduces poverty in South Africa. Thank you.
Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN
Mr J VOS
Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Deputy Speaker, we are very fortunate that the tourism sector globally and particularly in South Africa has shown signs of resilience and continues to grow year on year despite global economic instability and the looming threat of the ebola virus on the continent.
We would like to see tourism in this country go from strength to strength and in this regard we must again voice our strongest opposition to the proposed new tourism visa regulations that are scheduled to come into force in the middle of next year. A daily newspaper recently warned that more than 100 000 jobs and revenue of R2,4 billion in the tourism industry could be lost as a result of the regulations. We therefore ask the Minister of Tourism to engage with his counterpart in Home Affairs to take a serious look at this report and its findings in order to ensure that there are no negative impacts on South African tourism before these new regulations are implemented. We support the report. Thank you.
Mr N P KHOZA
Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN
Mr N P KHOZA: Deputy Speaker, the EFF is of the view that there is no indication that the department intends to legislate a minimum wage for the workers in the tourism and hospitality industry, who continue to work under unacceptable conditions that are characterised by long hours, a pittance in wages and some exclusively salaried by tips, and subjected to racial abuse by foreign and domestic tourists and white owners of the industry.
The department does not intend rapidly to transform the ownership structure of the industry to benefit the blacks, and Africans in particular. The tourism industry continues to be dominated by whites to the exclusion of blacks. The industry is threatening food security by turning the country into a private game reserve owned by foreigners who continue to buy the stolen land. The department does not have a strategy to stop the land grab by foreigners buying land subject to land claims and the continued resale of the land to the state for land claimants instead of supporting legislation for the expropriation of land without compensation.
Some of the figures bandied about could not be pronounced correctly by the President when handing over stolen land purchased by the state at a billion rand figure. The department is adamant to promote and protect white land ownership and white dominance of the industry unashamedly, to the exclusion of black Africans. In the circumstances the EFF vehemently rejects the report on tourism.
Ms B T NGCOBO
Mr N P KHOZA
Ms B T NGCOBO: Deputy Speaker, the department received another unqualified report, for the sixth time, and was also awarded by the Office of the Auditor-General for its good governance, information and communications technology and management. However, there is a need for the department to improve on its domestic tourism, its human capacity and we further encourage the department to transform tourism for the benefit of those who had been previously disadvantaged and furthermore improve job creation in line with the New Growth Path and the National Development Plan.
Further, the department should actualise its National Tourism Strategy, as revised, in order to promote tourism across the board in South Africa. Thank you. [Applause.]
There was no debate.
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
SEVENTH ORDER/ Mr B A REDEBE/Mr D J MAYNIER
SIXTH ORDER/ Ms B T NGCOBO
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS – DEPARTMENT OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS
There was no debate.
Mr B A RADEBE: Deputy Speaker, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Mr D J MAYNIER: Hon Deputy Speaker, the Portfolio Committee on Defence and Military Veterans is being reduced to box-checking in Parliament. This is nowhere better illustrated than the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report shambles. The Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, was prepared without any substantive deliberations and without access to all the required reports.
The BRRR makes recommendations on the Department of Defence and Military Veterans, but the committee made these recommendations despite the fact that it did not have sight of, let alone deliberate on, the annual report, the annual financial statements or the report on the audit of the financial statements of the Department of Defence and Military Veterans.
This BRRR is, frankly, a joke and I would strongly recommend that the Minister not waste her time reading it. What this committee needs is ANC members who are serious, ANC members who are committed, ANC members who are professional and ANC members who care. Unfortunately, that is not the case. And for all the reasons I have set out above, we will not be supporting this BRRR. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms N R MASHABELA
Mr D J MAYNIER
Ms N R MASHABELA: Hon Deputy Speaker, the current Defence BRRR, is taken from borrowed International Monetary Fund and World Bank money. Therefore, it is conditional in its usage; hence it takes away from social upliftment programmes.
The BRRR also supports a defence strategy that focuses on interstate warfare, where the 21st century is an age of asymmetrical warfare, with the emphasis on an internal enemy. Funnily enough, the current Defence Review, in its analysis of the strategic environment, is in agreement.
Therefore, ironically, the current budget first finds asymmetrical warfare conditions inside South Africa. The current BRRR will not be able to address the restoration of the dignity, inadequate payment, decent working conditions and a suitable health care system and facilities for men and women in uniform as well as military veterans.
The Budget Review justifies the utilisation of our armed forces throughout Africa, not in defending the African Revolution, but in picking up the imperialist mess, just as we send our soldiers to be killed in the Central African Republic in defence of one person’s insatiable appetite for kickbacks.
We are also sending our soldiers to the Democratic Republic of the Congo and we can assume that they are there not to defend the Congolese, but to defend one person’s interest in that country. Our soldiers are fast becoming personal militias for one person and are used to defend this person’s huge appetite for things stolen. There is nothing here either that speaks about the conditions of former liberation movement freedom fighters, who are suffering and living in poverty while apartheid soldiers are honoured. The EFF rejects the report. [Applause.]
Mr M S MOTIMELE
Ms N R MASHABELA
Mr M S MOTIMELE: Hon Deputy Speaker, the core message of this BRRR is that the Defence Force should be well resourced in order that it could meet its mandate to defend and protect the country and its citizens. That is why the report was supported by the majority of the parties, and I want the whole nation to know that.
It goes on to say that the memorandum of understanding and service level agreement between the departments should be speeded up, because the majority of our military veterans are suffering out there. They do not have houses, they do not have training and education and they do not have health care, and that is why this report was supported.
In terms of the inclusion of the Department of Defence and Military Veterans in this BRRR, we received our legal guidance from Parliament’s legal advisers. We do not doubt that everything was procedural. If there was any other legal advice which was sorted out somewhere else, it was not presented to the portfolio committee. Thank you. [Applause.]
Division demanded.
The House divided.
AYES – 206: Abrahams, B L; Adams, P E; Adams, F; Basson, J V; Bekwa, S D; Beukman, F; Bhengu, P; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, N R; Bilankulu, N K; Bongo, B T; Bonhomme, T J; Booi, M S; Boroto, M G; Buthelezi, M G; Capa, R N; Capa, N; Carrim, Y I; Cele, B H; Cele, M A; Chabane, O C; Chikunga, L S; Chohan, F I; Chueu, M P; Coleman, E M; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Davies, R H; Dirks, M A; Dlamini-Dubazana, Z S; Dlodlo, A; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dunjwa, M L; Esterhuizen, J A; Faku, Z C; Filtane, M L W; Fubbs, J L; Gamede, D D; Gcwabaza, N E; Gigaba, K M N; Gina, N; Godi, N T; Goqwana, M B; Gordhan, P J; Gumede, D M; Hlengwa, M; Holomisa, B H; Jafta, S M; Johnson, M; Jonas, M H; Kalako, M U; Kekana, P S; Kekana, C D; Kekana, M D; Kekana, E; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Khosa, D H; Khoza, T Z M; Khoza, M B; Khunou, N P; Kilian, J D; Kota-Fredricks, Z A; Lesoma, R M M; Letsatsi-Duba, D B; Loliwe, F S; Luyenge, Z; Luzipo, S; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabe, B P; Mabija, L; Mabilo, S P; Mabudafhasi, T R; Madella, A F; Madlopha, C Q; Maesela, P; Mafolo, M V; Mafu, N N; Magadla, N W; Magadzi, D P; Magwanishe, G; Mahambehlala, T; Mahlalela, A F; Mahlangu, J L; Mahlangu, D G; Mahlobo, M D; Maila, M S A; Majeke, C N; Majola, F Z; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makondo, T; Malgas, H H; Maluleke, J M; Manana, D P; Manana, M N S; Mandela, Z M D; Mantashe, P T; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mapulane, M P; Martins, B A D; Masehela, E K M; Maseko, L M; Mashatile, S P; Mashego-Dlamini, K C; Mashile, B L; Masondo, N A; Masuku, M B; Masutha, T M; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Matlala, M H; Matshoba, M O; Matsimbi, C; Mavunda, R T; Maxegwana, C H M; Mchunu, S; Mdakane, M R; Memela, T C; Mfeketo, N C; Mjobo, L N; Mkongi, B M; Mmemezi, H M Z; Mmola, M P; Mmusi, S G; Mncwabe, S C; Mncwango, M A; Mnganga - Gcabashe, L A; Mnguni, P J; Mnguni, D; Mnisi, N A; Mogotsi, V P; Mokoto, N R; Molebatsi, M A; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Morutoa, M R; Mosala, I; Mothapo, M R M; Motimele, M S; Motshekga, M S; Mphethi, S S A; Mpontshane, A M; Mpumlwana, L K B; Msimanga, C T; Mthembu, N; Mthethwa, E N; Mthethwa, E M; Mudau, A M; Muthambi, A F; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndaba, C N; Ndabeni-Abrahams, S T; Ndongeni, N; Nel, A C; Nesi, B A; Ngcobo, B T; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nkadimeng, M F; Nkomo, S J; Nobanda, G N; November, N T; Nqakula, C; Ntombela, M L D; Ntshayisa, L M; Nyalungu, R E; Phosa, Y N; Pikinini, I A; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Radebe, B A; Radebe, G S; Ralegoma, S M; Ramatlakane, L; Ramokhoase, T R J E; Rantho, D Z; Raphuti, D D; Semenya, M R; September, C C; Shabangu, S; Shaik Emam, A M; Sibande, M P; Singh, N; Sisulu, L N; Sithole, K P; Siwela, E K; Skosana, J J; Skwatsha, M; Smith, V G; Surty, M E; Tleane, S A; Tobias, T V; Tom, X S; Tongwane, T M A; Tseke, G K; Tseli, R M; Tsoleli, S P; Tsotetsi, D R; v R Koornhof, N J J; Van Der Merwe, L L; Van Rooyen, D D D; Van Schalkwyk, S R; Xasa, T; Xego-Sovita, S T; Yengeni, L E; Zokwana, S.
NOES – 93: America, D; Atkinson, P G; Bagraim, M; Baker, T E; Balindlela, Z B N; Basson, L J; Bergman, D; Bhanga, B M; Boshoff, H S; Bozzoli, B; Brauteseth, T J; Breytenbach, G; Cardo, M J; Carter, D; Chance, R W T; De Freitas, M S F; De Kock, K; Dreyer, A M; Esau, S; Figg, M J; Gana, S M; George, D T; Greyling, L W; Grootboom, G A; Hadebe, T Z; Hill-Lewis, G G; Hoosen, M H; Horn, W; Hunsinger, C H H; James, L V; Jongbloed, Z; Joseph, B D; Kalyan, S V; Khawula, M S; Khoza, N P; Kohler, D; Kopane, S P; Kruger, H C C; Krumbock, G R; Lees, R A; Lekota, M G P; Lorimer, J R B; Lotriet, A; Louw, E N; Lovemore, A T; Mackay, G; Macpherson, D W; Madisha, W M; Maimane, M A; Majola, T R; Malatsi, M S; Marais, S J F; Marais, E J; Masango, S J; Mashabela, N R; Matiase, N S; Matlhoko, A M; Matsepe, C D; Matshobeni, A; Maynier, D J; Mbatha, M S; Mbhele, Z N; Mc Gluwa, J J; Mcloughlin, A R; Mhlongo, T W; Michael, N W A; Mileham, K J; Mokgalapa, S; Motau, S C; Nqweniso, N V; Ollis, I M; Redelinghuys, M H; Robinson, D; Ross, D C; Selfe, J; Shinn, M R; Sonti, N P; Stander, T; Steenhuisen, J H; Steyn, A; Stubbe, D J; Tarabella Marchesi, N I; Twala, D L; Van Damme, P T; Van Der Walt, D; Van Der Westhuizen, A P; Van Dyk, V; Volmink, H C; Vos, J; Walters, T C R; Waters, M; Whitfield, A G; Wilson, E R.
ABSTAIN – 1: Alberts, A.
Motion agreed to.
Report accordingly adopted.
EIGHTH ORDER/ Ms M R SHINN
SEVENTH ORDER/ Mr M S MOTIMELE
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TELECOMMUNICATIONS AND POSTAL SERVICES – DEPARTMENT OF TELECOMMUNICATIONS AND POSTAL SERVICES
There was no debate.
Mr M U KALAKO: Deputy Speaker, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the report be adopted.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The motion is that the report be adopted. Are there any objections? No objections.
Mr M WATERS: Deputy Speaker, the DA wishes to make a declaration.
Declarations of vote:
Ms M R SHINN: Deputy Speaker, the report before this House today as a comprehensive view of the portfolio committee’s deliberations during the past few months is of little help to understand the elephant in the room that inhibits our progress to being an empowered knowledge economy. It reflects none of the crisis that has s changed the South African information communication and technology sector since President Jacob Zuma spread out the Communications Department.
We are told that the split was informed by the President’s desire to fast-track infrastructure and service delivery. In reality the ICT sector has hit a brick wall. New Communications Minister, Minister Muthambi’s ferocious grab at any clause that hints at broadcasting in the department’s various acts is aggravating the situation. She is erroneously enthusiastic about owning the digital broadcasting migration process, whose enabling legislation is not hers. She has decided without legal authority to change the composition of the council of the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa, Icasa.
The practical implications of President Zuma’s ill-conceived move is a failure to think through the implications of undoing years of work in building a converged electronic communications environment that would ensure that South Africa kept pace with the rest of Africa and the world.
Instead, we have gone backwards. So, President Jacob Zuma could create a propaganda empire in the safe hands of Minister Muthambi. The resultant split of the department is bogged down with legal complexities that keep the state law advisers awake at night. For example, Icasa and its functions are the responsibility of two Ministers, and they are not keen to share, despite their public declarations of collegiality. It says nothing of the negative economic impact caused by the perpetual delay in releasing the revised broadcasting digital migration policy that the previous Minister of Communications had ready for Cabinet approval before the May elections.
Our deadline for the digital broadcasting switch-over is seven months away. The transmitters are up, but the set-top boxes to receive the new digital signals cannot be assembled until the policy has been approved, and the process of approving standards to list tenders for the assembly cannot start until it is. This is not even contemplating the owners’ process of choosing the five billion poor households that will qualify for the subsidised set-top boxes, and then comes the training and management of the people who will install them.
This will be a recurring nightmare for years to come. The digital dividend that South Africans were promised so that they could join the interconnected world, and to interact online with government or trade their products and skills worldwide has stalled, all in the service of building a propaganda empire to help the ANC’s ruling clique to cling to power. [Applause.]
Ms N P SONTI
Ms M R SHINN
Ms N P SONTI: Deputy Speaker, historically Telecommunications and Postal Services were components within the Department of Communications and designed to enhance the overall mandate of government communications. The EFF objects to this Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, because the proclamation of dividing this into departments, which will lead to fragmentation and the silosation of components of communications is ill-conceived and retrogressive, and therefore objected to.
It will furthermore lead to the bloating of Cabinet, creating unnecessary additional costs for the National Treasury. Up to this stage, the department has not done anything to justify its existence.
Furthermore, this department has demonstrated its incapacity by failing to intervene timeously and solving the Post Office strike, which has led to the untold suffering of those who still depend on the Post Office for their communications services. Thank you. [Applause.]
Prof N M KHUBISA
Ms N P SONTI
Prof N M KHUBISA: Deputy Speaker, the NFP wants to reiterate the fact that the strike that has lasted so long has not only paralysed the workers, but alsoparalysed the economy. We also want to say, as the NFP, that we don’t see the department making a decisive move by taking telecommunications to the rural areas, especially to the young ones who need to be exposed to it whilst they are still very young.
So, we have reservations with regard to that, but we nevertheless support the report. Thank you.
Mr M HLENGWA
Prof N M KHUBISA
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, whilst we want to support the report, we do have areas of concern, particularly around the issue of the Post Office and the ramifications of the strike, especially as it affected students and the applications submitted to Unisa. We know that the Minister previously indicated that they were working with Unisa, but that’s an area in which we need greater focus, and ensure that we address that issue.
The second issue that was raised previously concerns the issue of applications to universities and other institutions of higher learning by students in order that theymay be able to get the necessary response so that they would know what they are going to be doing next year.
So, the issue of the Post Office remains a thorny one, which really needs decisive leadership. And moreover, in rural areas the Post Office continues to be very under-resourced and under-capacitated and that was truly reflected during the strike.
Car licensing has been a problem. The hon Mpontshane here can actually tell you. He has been unable to renew his vehicle in Ngwangwa because of that strike. So, the ramifications of the strike continue to create serious problems for South Africans in many respects.
We should look at resolving the issue of nongovernmental organisations that are highly reliant on funding which they get through the interaction that they have with the Post Office by means of the letters that are sent and the commitments that communities make to them, as this also continues to be a problem.
So, we really appeal for the support of this report. We want to support this report, in which there is emphasis on the issue of the Post Office, so that we can actually resolve it. Particularly for the vulnerable and the poor it is the backbone of their sustainable livelihoods and, therefore, leadership at this point in time is more than a necessity. I thank you.
IsiZulu:
USEKELA SOMLOMO: Bab’ uMpontshane, kungcono baba uthole indawo yokukhokha. Ngeke bamukele ukuthi awuyikhokhelanga imoto, bayozibopha.
Ms D R TSOTETSI
The DEPUTY SPEAKER
Ms D R TSOTETSI: Deputy Speaker, like all other departments, this one in particular, which is at its starting point, poses more challenges than the old departments.
Let me start by identifying the fact that in the report there is a lot of information regarding rural areas, and how they are protected by the department. It is a priority among all the other priorities.
Challenges relating to the policy regarding digital migration are noted among the challenges. The Minister and his team are working on that and will certainly report back at the appropriate time.
The calls to communicate are receiving attention. The current situation is not working in favour of consumers, especially poor communities.
The Post Office strike is indeed not a good story to tell. Individuals who depend on the Post Office for all sorts of deliveries have suffered a great deal. Small, medium and micro-sized enterprises, SMMEs, who also depend on the Post Office for delivery of their goods suffered some loss on profits. However, the Minister of Telecommunications and his team have intervened and board members have resigned. An administrator was appointed. That is progress.
All stakeholders are expected to play a meaningful role towards damage control and not point fingers. Some state-owned enterprises, SOEs, under the department have made progress and achieved unqualified reports and matters of emphasis are noted and the committee will monitor progress closely.
Other SOEs have done fairly badly and they highlighted their challenges, which the committee is also working on. And, Deputy Speaker, it must be understood that the mandate of the committee is not only to identify the challenges, but to assist with strategies to improve on them. That is constructive criticism. For instance, the committee recommended to the department to fast-track the process to fill vacancies as no objective will see the light of day if there is no capacity; there will be further engagements with the department and other SOEs. The SA Post Office will also be closely monitored for a state of stability.
It is surprising that even members who not attend the committee have something to say. That is why they are not aware of the detail of what has been going on in the committee. The details in the BRR report indicate both the good and the bad. Together, we strategise to remedy those challenges, but people, you know, choose to raise issues selectively to cause unnecessary sensation.
Information and communications technology, ICT, has made great progress in this department. The DA participated in the committee without raising issues regarding where Icasa belongs, but as usual, we know the grandstanding for public recognition. And people like the EFF never attend, but depend on hogwash from their DA alliance. They are cheque collectors who only come to work. Rural areas are indeed a priority. Thank you, Deputy Speaker. [Laughter.]
Motion agreed to (EFF dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER/NINTH ORDER/Mr M U KALAKO
Ms D R TSOTETSI/EIGHTH ORDER
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES - DEPARTMENT OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
There was no debate.
Mr M U KALAKO: Deputy Speaker, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
TENTH ORDER/ Mr M U KALAKO/ Mr M WATERS
NINTH ORDER/ Mr M U KALAKO
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES - DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT, NATIONAL PROSECUTING AUTHORITY, LEGAL AID SOUTH AFRICA, SPECIAL INVESTIGATING UNIT, SOUTH AFRICAN HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION AND PUBLIC PROTECTOR
There was no debate.
Mr M U KALAKO: Deputy Speaker, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Adv G BREYTENBACH: Hon Deputy Speaker, this report covers the performance of the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development, the National Prosecuting Authority, NPA, Legal Aid South Africa, the Special Investigating Unit, the Public Protector and the SA Human Rights Commission. Various serious concerns were raised during interactions with these institutions and the report largely reflects the discussions that took place, highlighting concerns raised by the committee. However, with regard to interactions conducted with the Office of the Public Protector, the report fails totally in reflecting the nature and content of the interactions that took place. This is largely true also of the interactions with the National Prosecuting Authority and the Special Investigating Unit.
From the outset it was clear that the majority of committee members who arrived at meetings with pre-prepared and scripted questions were intent upon discrediting the office and the person of the Public Protector and treated her and her presentations with thinly disguised contempt. The interactions were acrimonious and aimed at portraying the work done by the Office of the Public Protector in the poorest possible light. The reason for this was obvious, designed to question sharply the findings and remedial action taken in the Nkandla Report.
Similarly, questions put by members to the Special Investigating Unit and the NPA were disallowed by the Chair and the NPA’s representatives were openly protected by the Chair, particularly when questioned on pertinent issues of leadership and political interference within the organisation. The NPA officials were unilaterally instructed not to answer questions put, thus making a complete mockery of the oversight function of the committee. While the report fails to reflect the essence of these interactions, it cannot be supported. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr D L TWALA
Adv G BREYTENBACH
Mr D L TWALA: Hon Chair, the EFF objects to this budget because it is an abortion of justice for the poor. For example, it gives the rich the freedom of choice whether they want to await their trial at home or in prison, while thousands cannot afford bail as low as a R1 000 and they languish behind bars in appalling conditions, where HIV and TB festers.
We call on the competent authorities that are in charge of appointing the head of the NPA to review the appointment mechanisms of the head of the NPA as his or her position is sensitive and critical for sustaining our democratic order. Problems that have afflicated the NPA are on public record; not only the NPA, but primarily the criminal justice system, and we urge that, from a constitutional point of view, efforts be made to create an environment where laws that speak to these shortcomings are enacted and the structure is properly streamlined. We therefore reject the report. Thank you.
Prof N M KHUBISA
Mr D L TWALA
Prof N KHUBISA: Deputy Speaker ...
IsiZulu:
... sithi njenge NFP, ukugcwala kwamajele kuqhubeka njalo kuba yinkinga enkulu ngoba kuduka sekwenzeka ukuthi mhlawumbe iziboshwa ngaphakathi zingenwe yizifo ngenxa yokuthi zicinene. Ukuthatha isikhathi eside ukuthi amacala aqulwe kanye nokushushiswa kwalabo okumele bashushiswe nakho kuyinkinga enkulu okufanele ukuthi umnyango ukubhekelele.
Ukuphuza kwamacala ukuthi aqulwe kudala izinkinga ezinkulu emphakathini ngoba ubulungiswa buthatha isikhathi eside ukuthi buvele obala. Ukuvikeleka kwalaba ababuthaka njengezingane nabahlukunyeziwe ukuthi bathole ubulungiswa kuba yinkinga enkulu kakhulu. Sicela ukuthi umnyango ukulungise lokho yize noma siwemukela umbiko.
Prof C T MSIMANG
Prof N M KHUBISA
Prof C T MSIMANG: Hon Deputy Speaker, the IFP is very concerned about certain aspects of the Department of Justice. For instance, the IFP feels that the Office of the Public Protector is one of the most deserving because of the sterling work that is done by that Office, yet the Public Protector has complained about the scarcity of her budget and this has not been addressed.
The IFP is very concerned about delays in completing a number of prison facilities under the department. The result is the kind of overcrowding in these facilities that cannot be good for the health. The IFP also feels that there isn’t a good relationship between the Department of Public Works and the Department of Correctional Services, with a view to seeing to it that the necessary number of facilities are actually built and completed on time. What is of even greater concern is that there comes a time when the facility has not been built, but the funds have disappeared. These are some of the concerns. However, the IFP will support the report. Thank you.
Mr S C MNCWABE
Prof C T MSIMANG
IsiZulu:
Mnu S C MNCWABE: Sihlalo, egameni le-NFP noma siwemukela lo mbiko kodwa sifisa ukuthi ... [Ubuwelewele.]
English:
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, no, the hon Khubisa has spoken on your behalf. Only one person is allowed per party every step of the way. There is no double-dipping.
Dr M S MOTSHEKGA
The DEPUTY SPEAKER
Dr M S MOTSHEKGA: Hon Deputy Speaker, the ANC was not only instrumental in the establishment of all Chapter 9 institutions, including the Public Protector, but continues to give unconditional support for the existence of those institutions and we will continue to support them.
The Office of the Public Protector reports to Parliament through the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Correctional Services. It is not true that that committee was bashing the Public Protector. The committee was addressing the issues raised by the Public Protector herself and other Chapter 9 institutions. These issues included the challenge of overlapping mandates and the Public Protector requested the committee to assist her with resolving these overlaps. We were addressing a specific issue placed before the committee by her.
With regard to remedial actions, the ANC correctly took the view that findings by and the remedial action of the Public Protector are not binding and enforceable, and that position was vindicated by the Western Cape High Court. So, that is water under the bridge.
Secondly, there has never been any political interference in the
Office of the Public Protector. [Interjections.] The Public Protector herself came to our committee and informed the committee that her Office was dysfunctional and that senior staff members were resigning. [Interjections.] That is the information placed before the committee and the Public Protector invited us to visit her Office in order for us to see for ourselves the challenges in that Office so that we could assist. We want to say for everyone to hear that we remain committed to assisting the Office of the Public Protector to be the powerful Office that it needs to be. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members! Hon Motshekga, your time has expired.
Dr M S MOTSHEKGA: Thank you. [Applause.]
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters and Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
ELEVENTH ORDER/ Mr N S MATIASE
TENTH ORDER/ Dr M S MOTSHEKGA
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HEALTH – DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH
There was no debate.
Mr M U KALAKO: Madam Chairperson, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Mr N S MATIASE: On behalf of the EFF, we register our objection and request to make a declaration of the Budgetary Review and Recommendation on Health due to the following. Government has failed to address the positive factors in the explosion in prevalence of disease in our country, which is escalating at an alarming rate. We call for government to build a state-owned pharmaceutical company to produce medicine and distribute it freely to hospitals and clinics and also to reduce the costs of Western medicines and drugs.
We are of the firm belief that the government is not committed to building a state-owned pharmaceutical company because it is colluding with big pharmaceuticals. Government must stop buying medicines and resort to other means, or alternative medicines. Government is paying lip service to the National Health Insurance, and we know that it has no commitment whatsoever to implement it by 2017. Government keeps on shifting the goalposts each time it has to deliver on the promises of the past 20 years.
We call for the building of one hospital in every village in the country. [Interjections.] This is about primary health care and the ruling party has no clue whatsoever of what primary health care is. [Interjections.] We call on government with immediate effect to employ all community health care workers who have been rendered unemployed and useless, yet offer some services.
The public health care system is mostly underfunded, and dysfunctional, with the incidence of corruption, human resource shortages in all hospital and clinics, and where long queues and waiting times are common occurrences and ambulance services have been outsourced, privatised to benefit cronies of the ruling party.
Hospitals are no longer places of healing, care and cure for the sick, but are the places for poor people to go and die in shame and disgrace. Yet, we are being told that there is a good story to tell. We wonder when this good story to tell will come while it only serves the ruling party and the elite that govern us today.
Lastly, if the public health system is so good, why is the Minister of Health, and why is the Cinderella of the Communist Party, hon Nzimande, not taking his children and his family to state-owned hospitals? Thank you. [Time expired.][Applause.]
Prof N M KHUBISA
Mr N S MATIASE
Prof N M KHUBISA: Chairperson, there are three critical issues that the NFP wants to refer to. The first issue is the congestion in hospitals, the long queues, and one will even find patients sleeping on the floor. The second issue is the safety and security of the medical staff, and that include the doctors and the nurses. We have heard of incidents in Gauteng where nurses were dispossessed of their possessions and in some instances they were raped. We feel that that is very critical.
The last issue is the issue of resources in hospitals and also clinics, especially in rural areas; and then we need more mobile clinics.
Therefore, we on the side of the NFP believe that these are critical issues that need urgent attention. We have already said that we support the report.
Dr H C VOLMINK
Prof N M KHUBISA
Dr H C VOLMINK: Chairperson, the DA supports the portfolio committee’s report and we would like to make the following declaration. The Auditor-General recently reported that the national and provincial Departments of Health racked up R289 million in fruitless and wasteful expenditure. The Western Cape’s health department contributed nothing – zero – to this staggering figure. The entire R289 million is therefore attributable to wasteful and fruitless expenditure in the ANC-run provincial and national government and that is a fact.
To put this into perspective, R289 million can pay for 144 500 wheelchairs or 20 643 hearing aids or put 2 847 people on tuberculosis, TB, drugs for a year or 25 087 people on antiretrovirals for a year or repair or upgrade 60 clinics. This is theft from the poor, the marginalised and the excluded.
It would appear that many of those who are entrusted with the health of our communities in these provinces are simply not interested in clean government, as is demonstrated by the usual suspects in the brazen gallery of the corrupt in Mpumalanga, Limpopo, the Eastern Cape and the Free State. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms S J NKOMO
Dr H C VOLMINK
Ms S J NKOMO: Madam Chairperson, our public hospitals remain in a critical state of poor maintenance. Corrupt supply chain management procedures lead to situations where we have substandard equipment being installed, an example being our boiler and heating systems in some hospitals, such as those at the Charlotte Mxenge Hospital.
It is reported that these boilers and heating systems are currently unsafe. The department must continually monitor, refurbish and equip our hospitals so that they are run optimally and provide our citizens with safe havens and not be disaster areas.
We would also like to see some more health professionals and nonprofessionals trained in programmes focusing on HIV/Aids, including TB and other chronic disease management. We also need to ensure that condoms are manufactured in South Africa so as to prevent the spread of sexually transmitted infections, STIs. The IFP supports this report.
Ms M L DUNJWA
Ms S J NKOMO
IsiXhosa:
Nks M L DUNJWA: Mandibulele Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo, kuyothusa ke noko ukuba sithi xa silapha kule Ndlu yoWiso-mthetho ehloniphekileyo, amalungu amaqela aphikisayo athi kwizinto ebezithe zathethwa ekomitini, noMphathiswa waphendula kuzo, bancoma apho bafuna ukuncoma khona besithi bayavumelana nomgama osele uhanjiwe, bathi xa belapha bangathethi loo nto. Ndithi ke mandiyiveze loo nto kuqala ukuze kungacingwa ukuba izinto ezithethwa apha zizinto ezibangela ukuba iSebe lezeMpilo libe kanti alikhathali.
Ndicela ukuveza nje into yokuba ...
English:
... yes, the department ensures that the office handling health standards compliance is fully operational in terms of staffing and financial resources to ensure that it carries out its mandate of ensuring quality of health. The department must put in place measuring systems to minimise irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditure.
IsiXhosa:
Siyavuma okokuba sitshilo ekomitini kwingxelo yethu ukuba ...
English:
... the department should develop systems and measures to address challenges related to emergency services.
IsiXhosa:
Kodwa ke, okubalulekileyo, sitshilo ukuba ezi ngxaki - masiyibeke sihlalo into yokuba asiyibaleki into yokuba sinengxaki yezempilo kweli lizwe. Yiyo loo nto uMphathiswa athi engapha abe engapha. Ewe uyavuma ukuba izibhedlele azikho kwimeko entle, kodwa siyayazi sime kule ndawo ukuba zikhona izibhedlele ezilungiswayo neekliniki. Xa sidibanisa sithi sineekliniki ezingama-300 ezakhiweyo emaphandleni.
Kodwa ke xa sime kule ndawo siyatsho ukuba ...
English:
... the department should engage with the Financial and Fiscal Committee as a matter of urgency on the transfer of important health functions to provincial government and provide the committee with progress reports in this regard.
Sihlalo, xa besixoxa ekomitini kunye nesebe noMphathiswa siye sathi kwingxelo evelileyo yoMphicothi-zincwadi Jikelele yokuba imali yezemipilo ayiphathwa kakuhle, sabona kubalulekile ukuba siyijonge loo nto ukuze bathi xa bebuya bayilungise loo nto. Laphela ixesha. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
TWELFTH ORDER/ Dr M J CARDO
ELEVENTH ORDER/ Ms M L DUNJWA
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION - DEPARTMENT OF PERFORMANCE MONITORING AND EVALUATION AND NATIONAL YOUTH DEVELOPMENT AGENCY
Mr B A RADEBE: Hon Chairperson, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
There was no debate.
Declarations of vote:
Dr M J CARDO: Hon Chair, the DA objects to the Budgetary Review and Recommendations Report on the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, for one simple reason. The report recommends pouring more money into the fetid sinkhole that is the NYDA.
Section 11 (2)(7) of the report states that the portfolio committee recommends, and I quote, that:
The National Treasury should provide an additional R200 million to the agency on condition that the funds would be utilised for programmes that are aimed at improving services to the youth.
This recommendation is either the product of naiveté or folly, or perhaps both. The DA strenuously objected to this recommendation in the portfolio committee, but our objection was not captured in the final report.
The NYDA has a long and very undistinguished history of corruption, fraud, wasteful and irregular expenditure, fat salaries and meagre results. It cannot be trusted with public funds, whatever promises it makes and whatever conditions are attached. In fact, it has done nothing to warrant any additional funding, let alone an increase of nearly 50% to its allocation.
In 2013-14, according to its annual report, the NYDA spent R168,5 million of its R393 million state grant – that is 43% – on salaries for 386 employees. It paid an average salary of R1,6 million to its top management team and it blew R16 million on wasteful and irregular expenditure. [Interjections.]
The agency claims to have embarked on a turnaround strategy that will result in a reduction of its wage bill, but its turnaround strategy is a joke. In fact, the NYDA didn’t even bother to pitch up at the committee meeting to explain the strategy when it was first asked to do so.
We shouldn’t give the NYDA more money today. We shouldn’t give the NYDA more money tomorrow. In fact, we should scrap the agency altogether and we should channel its grant towards the implementation of the Youth Wage Subsidy, the National Student Financial Aid Scheme and structured youth development programmes. The DA opposes this report. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M HLENGWA
Dr M J CARDO
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon House Chair, I’m told that I am too tall and not audible from that microphone over there, so could you make arrangements to cater for us tall people, please.
Nonetheless, whilst we want to truly and wholeheartedly support the NYDA, their statement of intent and all the good things that they say – which looks very good on paper – their track record does not convince us. The R200 million that they are requesting right now is totally premature. They have presented to the portfolio committee what they termed a turnaround strategy, but at best it’s nothing more than a statement which says, this is what we want to do. We need to get down to the nitty-gritty. We need to unpack what this R200 million is going to do before we actually even consider giving it to them.
So, on principle we might agree, but on a practical level we certainly cannot do that. The legacy of the NYDA does not inspire confidence. In rural areas it is conspicuous by its absence. Even young people in urban areas are finding it difficult to access the NYDA. So, the big question is, where is the NYDA? Who is benefitting from the NYDA? Why is it so difficult for the NYDA to do the simple things like going to the people? They expect the people to come to them. Young people don’t have money to travel to towns and cities to access the NYDA. There is no Internet connectivity for them to be able to access the products of the NYDA.
At best, the targets that the NYDA is setting are so low, and then they give themselves a full, good report that just says, we have reached our target, simply because they reached one young person. Obviously they can reach one young person, but there are millions and millions and millions of young South Africans who need the assistance of the NYDA on a daily basis.
So, at this point in time we would want to say, let us go back to the statement of intent that the NYDA made; let us discuss and unpack it; let us put in timeframes; and let us put in details before we actually dispense money. We cannot just throw financial solutions at nonfinancial problems. It would be irresponsible and reckless of this House to do that when we are in such dire financial straits as a nation to open up another avenue for the NYDA to waste money. So yes, they are saying the right things, but unfortunately actions speak louder than words. [Interjections.][Applause.]
Ms N V NQWENISO
Mr M HLENGWA
Ms N V NQWENISO: Chairperson, the EFF rejects this Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report budget for the following reasons. The frontline services are still of a very poor standard. The long queues and improper strategies to curb these queues are still prevailing. No proper oversight is conducted across the three spheres of government. The department itself is under-resourced and understaffed and it cannot carry out its duties effectively. This has a huge impact on their doing proper oversight across the spheres of government in all departments.
No answers were provided by the special task team that was dealing with the Presidential Project on Distressed Mining, hence the budget allocated to it is still not clear on what it is going to do. The Department of Performance Monitoring and Evaluation has to enforce strict rules and measures against all departmental heads who are for ever undermining the Constitution and who just go to ATMs with big smiles.
The NYDA is just a project gone wrong. The EFF strongly objected to the R200 million that has been allocated to the NYDA, even though this is not recorded in the report. I don’t know why. The NYDA turnaround strategy also does not prioritise the poor, rural youth and the youth of South Africa in general. The plan to establish offices in all municipalities across South Africa is still not clear, and we do not know if it will ever be clear because it’s just an intention – an intention that does not even convince the committee members.
Until the new strategy that the committee has come up with, which is called “My contract with the people”, is endorsed and implemented by this Parliament relating to all departmental heads, no departmental head shall be allowed to get any kind of bonus if they fail to implement their own strategies, which they present to committees day in and day out, yet at the end of their annual reports there are things that are not done. Until all of this is done, the EFF will not support this budget. [Applause.]
Mr S C MNCWABE
Ms N V NQWENISO
IsiZulu:
Mnu S C MNCWABE: Yebo uqinisile Sihlalo, noma sizowuvuma lo mbiko obekwa phambi kwethu kodwa siyafisa ukusho ukuthi indlela esebenza ngayo iNYDA ayikafinyeleli lapho isiza khona abantu abasha, abahlwempu ezweni lakithi. Umthwalo esibona ibhekene nayo engekakwazi ukuwuxazulula kahle yilowo wokuzidayisa noma ukuziveza. [market] Kubonakala idume kakhulu ngenkhathi yenyanga yabantu abasha uNhlangulana ngomhlaka we-16. Akumele ivele ngaleso sikhathi uma sekuzobanombuthano wabaculi kodwa kumele iye ebantwini. Angenze isibonelo amahhovisi ayo akumele abe emadolobheni ngoba isebenzisana nabantu abasha. Emalokishini sekukhona uxhaxha lwezitolo [shopping centers, malls] Kungakuhle ukuthi ibe namahhovisi nakulezo zindawo. Iye ngqo kubantu abathintekayo.
Ngiyanikhumbuza futhi ukuthi abantu abasha baningi kakhulu kuleli lizwe ukudlula eminye iminyaka ekhona. Ngakho kubalulekile ukuthi izidingo zabo zibhekelelwe. Okwesibili, basizakale kumathalente namakhono abo, nakumabhizinisi abawaqalayo. Yiso isakhiwo leso okumele ngabe sibheka lokho. Siyacela ukuthi uMnyango ubheke kakhulu ukusebenza kwalesi sakhiwo. Kungabi ukuthi abaholi baso bahola imali eningi kodwa abantu okufanele ngabe mayasizakala abasizakali. Ngalawo mazwi ngiyabonga sizoweseka umbono. Sethembe ukuthi le mali izosebenza ngendlela okufanele isebenze ngayo isize abantu abasha baleli lizwe abangenalutho, abasahlupheka. Ngiyabonga.
Ms B P MABE
Mr S C MNCWABE
Ms B P MABE: Hon Chair, hon Cardo, naivety is a decision of any leader who would not support any programme that seeks to empower young people. [Interjections.] Additional funding is a need for monitoring and evaluation in order that they may be able to build a solid structure that will enable the department to achieve its objectives. I also want to assure everyone in this House that, through monitoring and evaluation, accountability has improved within government departments.
The management performance assessment tool is a tool that is used to enhance management practices such as professional ethics, payment of suppliers within the required time and fraud prevention, just to mention a few. [Interjections.] We believe that the Performance Monitoring and Evaluation Department will move South Africa towards the attainment of a professional Public Service. I also want to mention that a detailed report on distressed mining was presented to the portfolio committee and we all agreed to it. I am surprised that today hon Maynier is not agreeing to the report.
Hon Chair, fellow young South Africans, the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, must be empowered with the appropriate tools to carry out its mandate, and therefore more long-term funding is necessary. The report is supported for the following reasons: The NYDA has achieved its 86% overall performance; it has achieved an unqualified audit report and 24 out of 28 key performance indicators. We cannot for ever refuse to give them support because of their history. Also on that issue, a detailed report outlining what led to all these salary discrepancies within the department was also tabled in the portfolio committee.
Therefore, the extra fund allocation will be used to support an extra 40 000 youths with business grants, with scholarships, second chance opportunities for struggling matriculants and training programmes - the issue of accessibility in rural areas as well. In fact, R200 million is very little given the outcry. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, I acknowledge that you have your own timing machines, but I also have mine here. Please stop confusing me. I’m looking at the time on my table. Thank you very much.
Mr M WATERS: Chair, please note the objection of the DA.
Ms N V NQWENISO: And please note the objection of the EFF.
Ms D CARTER: Chair, can I be recognised? Please note the objection of Cope.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: (Ms M G Boroto): I have already ruled on the adoption anyway. Please be ... [Interjections.]
Dr C P MULDER: Please recognise us, Chair. Please, note the objection of the FF Plus as well. Thank you.
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance, Economic Freedom Fighters, Congress of the People and Freedom Front Plus dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
THIRTEENTH ORDER/ Ms N V NQWENISO
TWELFTH ORDER/Ms B P MABE
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION - DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION, PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION, NATIONAL SCHOOL OF GOVERNMENT AND CENTRE FOR PUBLIC SERVICE INNOVATION
Mr B A RADEBE: Hon Chairperson, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Ms N V NQWENISO: Chair, the EFF rejects this budgetary review and recommendation, budget because ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): What is your problem? [Interjections.]
Ms N V NQWENISO: It is a shame that money must be allocated to departments whose heads do not even know or have seen the Public Service Charter, in which article 8 of 8 bears the Batho Pele principles and article 5 of 8 stipulates their responsibilities as public servants and service delivery.
Public servants are subjected to an endless cycle of poverty by getting lower increases, and the Government Employees Medical Scheme, Gems, being allowed to take double their increase without fear or favour on the watch of the Department of Public Service and Administration. The Government Employees Housing scheme, GEHS, was agreed upon by the Public Service Co-ordinating Bargaining Council, PSCBC, Agreement 1 of 2012, but to date it hasn’t been implemented. [Interjections.] And to date there’s no document that affirms the stage where the processes are. Instead public servants are still earning a lousy R900 as housing allowance, which is inadequate. The EFF still maintains the necessity to increase public servants’ salaries with double digits, as they have presented to the bargaining chamber, and that has to be done fast.
The National School of Governance has no clear curriculum that will take the Public Service to greater heights. Instead it operates as a conveyer belt, taking money from the state only to take it to universities, and this the departments are more capable of doing on their own. The dire conditions that the public servants work under are intolerant and no one can work under those conditions; they must be improved as a matter of urgency.
The Public Service Commission’s recommendations should be taken seriously by the department and be implemented. They should not undermine this department, because in the Constitution, in which it is enshrined, this department is a solution in terms of making sure that Chapter 10, section 195, is carried out effectively. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M HLENWGA
Ms N V NQWENISO
Mr M HLENWGA: House Chairperson, the issue here is that teachers must teach, nurses must nurse, and people must be at school on time, teaching. The lack of professionalism in the Public Service is appalling and it is a hindrance to progress and imposes further suffering on our people who, on a daily basis, have to go through the struggles of the laziness and laissez-faire approach with which the Public Service staff carry themselves. Of course, this is not all of them, but those who are not working are giving the rest of them a bad name. So those doing well must encourage others to work, because the situation that is prevailing right now does not help this country.
The other issue which is of critical importance, particularly in the teaching sector, is that of the SA Democratic Teachers’ Union, Sadtu, which continues to be just a rogue element in the greater scheme of things, and is not taking the duty and responsibility to teach the black child seriously. What they’re interested in is campaigning; what they’re interested in is holding branch meetings during teaching time; what they’re interested in is not teaching, they’re interested in just doing absolutely nothing. That must also come to an end. We plead with their alliance partner to talk to them to instil and inculcate a culture of teaching.
IsiZulu:
Ubuthishela bobizo; abantu abaye emisebenzini bayosebenza bayeke ukucindezela abantu.
English:
We are doing ourselves a major injustice if we’re going to tolerate these high levels of unprofessionalism. The bottom line is that teachers must teach, nurses must nurse, police must police ...
IsiZulu:
... wonke umuntu akenze umsebenzi okufanele awenze. [Ihlombe.]
Mr M L D NTOMBELA
Mr M HLENGWA
Mr M L D NTOMBELA: Hon Chair, the budget review and recommendation report process went very well, with all the members of the portfolio committee from different political parties agreeing that there was progress in programmes and projects. We also agreed that there were some challenges here and there. We all agreed as members of our respective portfolio committees that we were going to follow up on outstanding issues through oversight to bring finality to outstanding milestones.
This is what we all do through questions, calling on entities to come and account to Parliament and going on oversight visits, through undertaking announced and unannounced visits. We do this, because we love this country and its people, whom we serve. It is them, the people of our country, that we have in mind when we go about doing our work.
We are a developmental state. Every progress and impact the government makes counts, and every small glitch in the delivery of a service counts for the impact that would have been realised. These are our positive and negative concerns. We all worry in a similar manner. Nobody feels more aggrieved than another when service delivery is affected.
However, we can assure this House that when service delivery takes place, the ANC is happier than everyone else, because it is the political party that is judged and ridiculed when something goes amiss.
Concerning the final review and recommendation process, we cannot, as the responsible members of this House, shoot down this process and curtail the approval of budgets and their reforms. Budgets are adjusted because inflation affects them, services become more expensive by the day; infrastructure must be maintained; new opportunistic challenges that are unanticipated crop up, and communities need to be serviced. We cannot prevent reforms and reviews.
If you should say budget reforms and reviews should be prevented, how are we going to service structures like the Thusong Service Centres in our communities? How are you going to allow the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, to spread its offices across the length and breadth of this country, even in the rural areas?
Allow the National School of Government to train public servants with a new ethos of accountable and capable public service. Who would we expect to come and account here to us if there ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, your time is up. I now put the question. The question is that the report be adopted.
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
FOURTEENTH ORDER/ Mr R W T CHANCE
Thirteenth order/ Mr M L D NTOMBELA
Consideration of budgetary review and recommendation report of portfolio committee on small business development – DEPArtment of small business development
There was no debate.
Mr B A RADEBE: Chairperson, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Mr R W T CHANCE: House Chair, the DA supports this report. On 25 May President Jacob Zuma announced the formation of the Department of Small Business Development, which raised the hopes that the government was serious about growth and job creation in the flywheel of the economy. But now, six months later, the department is a phantom department with no financial independence, precious few resources and a Cabinet that is divided as to the role of the department and who is responsible for its functions. Its mandate was hamstrung from the word go.
The Medium-Term Policy Statement of the Minister of Financerevealed that the department will only be allocated a budget in 2015-16, nearly a year after its formation. As the report points out, its day-to-day functions rely on obscure agreements with the Department of Trade and Industry, a development it seems to have a veto over, and they prefer to have their empires intact, rather than to fully resource the new department with what it needs to do its job.
Now the incubation support and all its business finance will be handed over to the department, leaving members of the committee wondering whether the department should exist at all. The department’s request for a staff budget of R256 million for the 2015-16 budget was rejected by the Department of Public Service and Administration. Today the committee’s request to see a staff organogram has been ignored, and so we have no idea how this huge salary bill will be spent.
This phantom department, which carries the hopes of small enterprises and the dreams of countless unemployed, was meant to spearhead the job creation effort by making it easier for small business to start and fly. Now it seems these dreams will be dashed. The Better Business Bureau, BBB, small business development does not pull its punches on the challenges facing this department. Very little progress has been made since the Small Business Act was passed in 1995 and amended in 2004. The Minister promised to bring the Act back to Parliament but so far she has given little indication of what she is going to do with it.
The DA calls on the Minister to get her act together to provide clarity on this department and begin to perform the duties for which she is being handsomely compensated. The ambitions of small businesses are not to be toyed with, and a solution to this untenable state of affairs must be found as a matter of urgency. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr S C MNCWABE
Mr R W T CHANCE
IsiZulu:
Mnu S C MNCWABE: Ngiyabonga Sihlalo, namuhla nginqume ukuthi ngikhulume ulimi lakithi ngoba abantu abasikhetha bayakhala bathi siyakwitiza lapha bagcina bengezwa ukuthi sithini ngabo. Cha, Sihlalo iNFP izowemukela umbiko njengoba unjalo. Kodwa sithanda ukudlulisa lokhu ukuthi siyacela ukuthi uMnyango wenze isiqinisekiso sokuthi osomabhizinisi abancane kufika isikhathi la nabo beba ngosomabhisinisi abakhulu. Abangabi osomabhizinisi abancane kuze kube phakade.
Sigcizelela ukuthi futhi imali eningi ayifakwe laphaya kwimifelandawonye yabantu [co-operatives.] Sibuka ukuthi siyiNFP imifelandawonye iyona ezokwenza ukuthi abantu bakwazi ukuzisebenza baziphilise. Yiyona ezoqeda indlala. Yiyona imifelandawonye ezokwenza izwe lethu lingabi yizwe elondla abantu balo kodwa kube yizwe elithuthukisa abantu balo. Siyacela futhi ukuthi imali ifakwe kosomabhizinisi abasendaweni ezisemakhaya. Singagcini emadolobheni kuphela.
Okokugcina Sihlalo siyafisa ukuthi iMinyango ibhekelele ukuthi osomabhizinisi bakithi baleli lizwe bayazithola izindawo zokusebenzela emadolobheni. Esikubonayo ngizokusho ngingafihli ukuthi abafowethu abasuka emazweni angaphandle babonakala benamalungelo amaningi okuthola izindawo zokusebenzela emadolobheni. Abantu bakithi abasafufusa bafunwa ipasi nesipesheli. Siyacela ukuthi kuphele lokhu kokuthi abantu bakithi uma besebenza emigwaqeni bedayisa kube nomasipala ababafuna izincwadi zokudayisa kodwa abantu abavela ngaphandle bekwazi ukubeka amashidi edolobheni bagunde abantu bengafunwa lutho uma kuqhamuka amaphoyisa kamasipala.
Yilokho esifuna ukukugcizelela ukuthi osomabhizinisi abanakekele, bazithuthukise futhi bakwazi ukufinyelela ezingeni lo-Grinaker no-Murray and Roberts - bangahlezi bebancane. Imali eningi kulo Mnyango iyadingeka. Siyagcizelela ukuthi uNgqongqoshe alekelele ukuze kube uMnyango lo okhipha abantu bakithi ebuphofini bekwazi ukuzisebenza. Ngalawo mazwi iNFP izokwamukela okubekwe ngaphambili. Ngiyabonga.
Mr N L S KWANKWA
Mr S C MNCWABE
IsiXhosa:
Mnu N L S KWANKWA: Enkosi, Sihlalo. Nam ndiza kuthetha isiXhosa torwana. Nathi sithi eyona nto esifanele ukuba sibe siyayiqwalasela, - Madiba, ungandiqali kuloo kona,- yinto yokuba ...
English:
... the cumulative effect of the various forms of legislation ...
IsiXhosa:
... ezikhoyo. [Uwele-wele.] Ewe, sisiXhosa salaa lali yam.
English:
We need to review the regulatory environment and check ...
IsiXhosa:
... ukuba ingaba ngenene nangenyaniso iyancedisana kusini na noosomashishini. Omnye umba obalulekileyo ngumba endandikhe ndawuveza ngaphambili apho ufumanisa ukuba iSefa siyayinika ithuba siphinde siyiqwalasele, kuba iyaqhwalela ekunikeleni imali ingakumbi kubantu abatsha. Ufumanisa ukuba namanye amaziko ayasilela ekunikezeleni imali ingakumbi kula maphondo ahlelekileyo.
Ukuba siza kunikezela imali kwabo sele betyebile bakuba ngoosambuntsuntsu size sisale sisendlaleni thina. Kuza kufuneka siqiniseke ukuba kugxininiswa kwizinto ezithile xa kusenziwa loo nto.
English:
If I remember correctly, only 15% was achieved out of a set target of 30% ...
IsiXhosa:
... eyayijolise kuyo yokunikezela imali koosomashishini abasakhulayo, ingakumbi abantu abatsha. Kodwa ke, into endifuna ukuyishiya phambi kokuba ndihlale phantsi, uyazi thina xa sithetha, siye silibale ukuba luxanduva lwethu sonke ukuxhasa oosomashishini aba. Umntu uyakwazi ukuba aqhube ahambe aye kuthenga i-coke kwa-Pick ‘n Pay eshiya ispaza ecaleni kwendlu.
English:
While these things can be done ...
IsiXhosa:
... ukuzama ukuqinisekisa ukuba siyabaxhasa ngokubanika imali, kodwa nathi ...
English:
... we need to support our small businesses ...
IsiXhosa:
... ukuze abantu bethu baphuhle, bangalambi sikhona. Enkosi.
Ms N R BHENGU
Mr N L S KWANKWA
Ms N R BHENGU: Chairperson, I want to thank all the members of the Portfolio Committee on Small Business Development for a robust and frank assessment of the strategic plan and budget priorities of the Department of Small Business Development to ensure their relationship with the mandate of the department and focus on addressing issues of poverty, unemployment and inequality.
The department is failing you and has not completed its establishment stage. The department inherited functions and personnel responsible for small, medium and micro enterprises, SMMEs, and the development of co-operatives from the Department of Trade and Industry. Support services for the development of SMMEs and co-operatives are still located in the Department of Economic Development.
The view of the Portfolio Committee on Small Business Development is that support services should follow functions. Minister Zulu understands the mandate of the department. The strategic plan speaks to the mandate of the department and resolutions of the ANC’s 53rd conference on radical socioeconomic transformation.
The strategic plan of the department, however, did not have a personnel structure due to the following: Firstly, the department needs to assess the relevance of programmes inherited from the Department of Trade and Industry in order to continue and discontinue with some, and thereafter allocate staff accordingly; secondly, the department had to continue to provide services budgeted for under the Department of Trade and Industry for the 2014-15 financial year, while the new department was being established.
We had to recognise the need for a paradigm shift and change management at administrative level to allow for a smooth transition, and understanding doing things differently and according to the broader mandate of the department than the mandate of the programme under the Department of Trade and Industry. The portfolio committee looked at these factors and the strategic nature of the department in job creation and poverty reduction. We agreed to support this budget while continuously monitoring the establishment of the department as a fully-fledged department.
I want to point out that the first hon member who supported the strategic plan in the portfolio committee was hon Mulaudzi, who represents the EFF in the portfolio committee.
The ANC supports this budget. I thank you. [Applause.]
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
FIFTEENTH ORDER/Mr N S MATIASE
FOURTEENTH ORDER/Ms N R BHENGU
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON MINERAL RESOURCES – DEPARTMENT OF MINERAL RESOURCES
Mr M U KALAKO: Hon Chairperson, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Mr N S MATIASE: Hon Chairperson, the EFF rejects the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report on Mineral Resources primarily because this is a sector ravaged by the illicit and criminal activities of transfer pricing, tax base erosion and profit shifting. We reject the report again precisely because the black economic empowerment, BEE, beneficiaries in the mining sector, some of whom are present in this House, as “sluggers”, are lazily and sluggishly slugging it out, enriching themselves, making hay while the sun shines, yet the Marikana mineworkers are still waiting for a mere R12 500, a decent wage. What a shame!
We reject this report on the basis that the mineworkers in general and mining communities still do not have access to basic services, live in horrible conditions and there is no convincing plan to change these conditions.
Up to this stage, the department has not fully implemented the provisions of the Mineral Resource Development Plan, which allows the mining companies to beneficiate our minerals in the country. As it stands now, all our minerals are exported as raw material. Until such time as the government abandons the export-based economy and resorts to beneficiation and mineral exploitation that benefits our people, the EFF will remind the ruling party that it has no good story to tell. The story to tell is that of the BEE beneficiaries. So, we reject this report. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr J R B LORIMER
Mr N S MATIASE
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order! I now call on the hon Mackenzie.
Mr J R B LORIMER: I’m not hon Mackenzie, Madam Chair. The mining...
The HOUSE CHAIPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Please remind me not to make the same mistake again.
Mr J R B LORIMER: Hon Lorimer.
The HOUSE CHAIPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Lorimer. Thank you very much. Continue.
Mr J R B LORIMER: The ining and oil and gas industries are in limbo at the moment. They are awaiting a decision by the President on whether or not to sign into law the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Amendment Bill, which was passed in the dying hours of the Fourth Parliament. Some of the provisions of that Bill will have extremely negative effects if implemented. They will dwarf the issues addressed by this report.
Nevertheless, this report does make some important recommendations and that’s why we will be supporting it. Notable are recommendations aimed at clarification of the scorecard used to measure compliance with the Mining Charter and the development of integrated financial management systems to help align the processing of mining licence applications. Both these may help remove uncertainties that bedevil the licensing and compliance regime. Clarification helps to provide certainty. We need that certainty if we are to persuade investors to put their money into building our mining and energy industries.
There are other recommendations that collectively instruct the department to react fast to requests by the portfolio committee and to open access to details of the mining licensing system. These are important tools to improve accountability to parliamentary oversight.
We are happy about the recommendation that says the Department of Mineral Resources must develop a strategy to provide access to information about social labour plans. Often these plans are kept virtually secret from the communities they are supposed to benefit. Mining communities then feel these mining operations are not accountable and are detrimental to their lives. To assure its future, mining needs buy-in. It will get this through transparency and the greater accountability that follows.
Also good in this report is the intention to develop a template to assist communities to take the best possible advantage of opportunities to participate in mining operations in their midst. What this industry needs is more of the example set by the Royal Bafokeng, who are enriching a community and less of that set by the Goldfields’ dodgy empowerment deal which benefitted a few instead of empowering many.
Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN
Mr J R B LORIMER
Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Hon House Chair, it is stated that the aim of the Department of Mineral Resources is to promote and regulate the minerals and mining sector for transformation, growth, development and to ensure that all South Africans derive sustainable benefits from the country’s mineral wealth.
Mineral resources contribute approximately R380 billion to our economy and contribute significantly to job creation. It is therefore essential that we protect and optimise what we have, for example, the platinum used in the manufacturing of the catalyst converters in the automotive industry. We have the potential to become the biggest manufacturer of these converters in this country. We therefore call for greater levels of beneficiation, as exports of our large quantities of raw materials from our shores are an impediment to creating economic growth and jobs.
We want to see our economy benefitting to a far greater extent than it currently does from mineral beneficification. We want to see our manufacturing and other local industries having a competitive edge over their global rivals and this can be greatly achieved through regulated beneficiation. Having said that, the IFP supports this report. Thank you.
Mr S C MNCWABE
Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN
IsiZulu:
Mnu S C MNCWABE: Sihlalo, siyawamukela umbiko obekwe phambi kwethu kodwa sifisa ukugcizelela siyi-NFP ukuthi abasebenzi basezimayini benza umsebenzi obucayi kakhulu futhi obalulekile ezweni. Sifisa ukuthi baphatheke ngendlela enesithunzi kanye nenhlonipho. Sifisa ukuthi bathole imiholo ezokwazi ukunelisa izidingo zabo. Sifisa ukuthi izindawo abahlala kuzo kube eziseqhophelweni elibafanele. Ayingabikho le nto yokuthi uma sebeyeka emisebenzini kutholakale ukuthi sebenezifo ngengxa yokuthi indlela abasebenza ngaphansi kwayo ayigcwaningisiswa kahle. Siyakuphakamisa lokho kanye nokuthi abaphathi bezimayini bayeke ukuhola kakhulu, bathole amabhonasi amakhulu kakhulu ukudlula laba bantu abakhipha umnotho wezwe.
Siyacela futhi ukuthi ibhekwe indaba yokuthi kungathathwa umnotho wezwe lakithi uyokwenziwa kwamanye amazwe kodwa ubuye la usubiza kakhulu. Siyagcizelela futhi ukuthi makwakhiwe izindlu zokuhlala, imitholampilo kanye nezikole zabasebenzi basezimayini ukuze babenempilo engcono bona nemindeni yabo. Kodwa-ke, asinaso esinye isizathu sokuthi siwuchithe umbiko. Sithemba ukuthi konke esikuphakamisayo kuzobhekelelwa emnyangweni. Ngiyabonga.
Mr S LUZIPO
Mr S C MNCWABE
Mr S LUZIPO: Hon House Chairperson, firstly, I must confirm that the report was agreed to and adopted unanimously by the committee. Secondly, with due respect, we understood that the purpose of the exercise was not to develop the policy, but rather to look at how best resources could be allocated and reallocated within the department.
The first thing one wants to say is that the suggestion central to this report is that there is a need to rework and relook at the issue of more funding, so that we can ensure that there is maximum compliance with issues that relate to mine health and safety, in particular around the specialised skills of inspectors.
Secondly, it is about improving and ensuring that there is transparency around the issue of applications and granting of licences.
Thirdly, it is also about ensuring that the Council for Geoscience is able to comply with the demands that may emerge as a result of the application of the amendments in terms of the Geoscience Amendment Act of 2010, as well as the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Amendment Bill.
I think it is important also to note that according to the report the future growth of the mining sector is dependent mainly on continued mineral exploration. We must accept the fact that the mineral industry is probably not the same as the agricultural industry, where you can plant. Therefore, in the process of extraction you need to explore more possibilities, where you may be able to look at the issues of mine exploration.
Thirdly, it must be acknowledged and accepted that only 30% of the land in South Africa has been mapped in terms of mineral resources. Therefore, it means we will require more resources to do so.
Finally, I think it is also important to say, with due respect to hon members, if you were to deal with the budget and at the centre of it you have caring about the workers, then the first thing that you would do is to understand and appreciate the conditions that they are subjected to. You would then make sure that you do not cut them off from what they stand to benefit. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
SIXTEENTH ORDER / Mr A M MATLHOKO
FIFTEENTH ORDER/ Mr S LUZIPO
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS – DEPARTMENT OF CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
There was no debate.
Mr M U KALAKO: Chairperson, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Mr M WATERS: House Chairperson, while the DA supports the report, and in particular the unqualified audits received by the Department of Co-operatives and Traditional Affairs and its various entities, the same cannot be said of the poor performance at provincial and municipal levels. Mention must be made of the number of dysfunctional municipalities currently under administration and the three municipal councils that have recently been dissolved.
In addition, we cannot continue to claim that there is a good story to tell when 50% of the municipalities and municipal entities either did not submit financial statements or received qualified, disclaimed or adverse audit opinions.
Similarly, the provinces, with the exception of the DA-run Western Cape, continue to fail to meet their basic obligations. The back-to-basics approach of the Minister is little more than a rehash of similar plans, of which we have had much over the past few years. These include Project Consolidate, the Local Government Turnaround Strategy, Operation Clean Audit, amongst others. The proof of the pudding, Minister, is in the eating. Perhaps the Minister needs to imbue a little more efficiency in his department and heed the many constructive proposals and inputs made by the opposition.
We will be watching carefully to see exactly how the Minister’s approach is implemented at local and provincial government levels. It is past time that the Minister focuses some attention on the failures of provincial government, as well as that of the municipalities. The DA supports this report.
Mr A M MATHLOKO
Mr M WATERS
Mr A M MATLHOKO: Chairperson, the EFF vociferously objects to this report. This department has proven over and over again that it is failing to deliver quality services to our people. The many instances of failing municipalities are indicative of a department whose centre cannot hold.
The Inkwanca Local Municipality and the Makana Local Municipality in the Eastern Cape and the Madibeng Local Municipality in the North West are just examples of how far the rot has deepened in this department. Rather, the department resorts to senseless tribalistic tendencies at the behest of the President. The futile attempt by the President and this department to remove His Majesty King Buyelekhaya Dalindyebo shows that this department is not free from party politics. The fact that you can allow yourself to be manipulated by the hon Inkosi Mandla Mandela into removing a king shows utter disrespect for African traditions and cultures. [Interjections.]
Mr B A RADEBE: House Chairperson, on a point of order!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, can you just hold on! Can you take your seat.
Mr B A RADEBE: House Chairperson, it is not unparliamentary for the hon member to reflect on the integrity of another member in this House without a substantive motion, please.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): The point of order has been sustained. Hon member, please refrain from doing that! The hon Mandela is a member of this House, so we cannot reflect on his integrity or his dignity. Thank you. Could you please continue with your declaration.
Mr A M MATLHOKO: Thank you, hon Chairperson. The attempted removal of His Majesty shows utter disrespect for African tradition and culture. The Back to Basics strategy is a clear indication that for the past 15 years or so nothing has been done in this department to address the plight of our people. Thanks to the new Minister, who conceded that the department was falling apart.
We cannot support this Budget Review for as long as our municipalities are suffering, there are homesteads without water, there are traditional leaders who are unequal and villages without access roads. The EFF rejects this report with the contempt it deserves. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Before I allow the NFP to speak, hon members, please let us respect our Rules. Let us not keep on telling you to desist from doing something that you know very well is not allowed – and even after having been given an opportunity still to revert to doing so. Let us not do that.
Prof N M KHUBISA
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Botoro)
Prof N M KHUBISA: House Chairperson, the Auditor-General, together with the department, has referred to municipalities in Limpopo, North West, the Eastern Cape and Mpumalanga that are not well managed. There are a lot of disclaimers in those municipalities. That is a cause for concern, and the department should urgently attend to that. Over and above that, the whole issue of underspending the Municipal Infrastructure Grant, MIG, funding and conditional grants is also worrying.
Of course, grinding into the marrow of the whole thing is the question of cadre deployment that is bedevilling the department. That is also cause for concern.
Last, but not least, is the involvement of traditional leaders in the affairs of the municipalities. We, as the NFP, believe that they play a very pivotal role in issues of development. Their role must be clearly enunciated in terms of what it is we need to do to ensure that the department has something it can do for the rural communities. I thank you.
Mr M HLENGWA
Prof N KHUBISA
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon House Chair, on the issue of municipalities, obviously there are many areas of concern there. We welcome the Minister’s back-to-basics programme that he has launched. As I indicated previously in the House, we will support it. Back to Basics is a carbon copy of the IFP’s manifesto and that progressive kind of thinking in the ANC is welcomed. [Interjections.] I think if you followed more of what the IFP is saying, you’d be very far ahead.
However, Minister, the issues of local government are very, very serious. We need to look at the capacity of the officials in municipalities, your CFOs, your municipal managers. We must be concerned about the high use of consultants in municipalities - and by government departments - particularly in the preparation of financial statements. Municipalities spent over R695 million on that. Government departments spent R590 million, and that is money that could have been better spent providing services for our people.
The second issue refers to the issue and institution of traditional leadership, which is very, very important. We need to revisit that issue – the issue of the Cabinet Resolution of 2000, Chapters 7 and 12. You know, the fact that traditional leaders are playing second fiddle to councillors in municipalities does not bode well for co-operation and progress. So, that is an issue that we must look at. We must also be able to start establishing houses of traditional leaders that are capacitated, financially and with human resources, in order that they may be effective and efficient. They are not just ceremonial leaders. They are there because they are concerned with the wellbeing of their people.
Further to that issue, we must be able to unpack the historical context, because there is a view held by some that traditional leaders just emerged out of nowhere. In fact, the historical context is that long before politicians and political parties were established, traditional leaders were at the forefront of leading the struggle against the oppression of our people. Therefore, we need to give them the due respect that they deserve as struggle heroes of this country. So, hon Minister, we would really want to implore you to fast-track the issue of the back-to-basics programme and professionalise our municipalities to ensure that our people access the services that they need.
Lastly, there is the issue of political instability in terms of leadership. I would implore you, Minister. There are municipalities like Nongoma and Mtubatuba, which are in the bottom of the pit of maladministration and poor services. Those are the municipalities that you really need to look at. There is also the irregular expenditure of R19 million in the Zululand District Municipality and their refusal to appear before the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa. Those are all issues. If political leadership is not willing to co-operate, we will have a serious problem trying to sort out issues in local government. Ms D CARTER
Mr M HLENGWA
Ms D CARTER: Chair, there’s a need to restore the confidence of our people in our municipalities, and to rebuild and improve the basic requirements of a functional, accountable, responsive, effective, efficient and developmental local government. Local government is, generally, dysfunctional, unaccountable, nonresponsive, ineffective, wasteful and inefficient and it does not create environments for growth and development.
There has been a lack of will to ensure good and clean municipal governance. The remedy is simple. Stop the practice of deployment; stop appointing cadres; stop abusing and corrupting affirmative action. Corruption is endemic, and in the South African context, it is committed with impunity. Cope calls on the department and on the Minister to please weed out this cancer. We trust that an honest assessment of the real state of local government and the real root causes of the problem will be made and implemented. Cope will support this. Thank you.
Mr M P MAPULANE
Ms D CARTER
Mr M P MAPULANE: Chairperson, the EFF says that the department is falling apart. How can a department that received an unqualified report and actually achieved more than 90% of the predetermined objectives be said to be falling apart? I think this exposes the ignorance of the EFF about what government is all about.
All parties represented in the committee and other stakeholders who attended the recent Presidential Summit on Local Government have all endorsed the approach that the department has come up with on the back-to-basics programme. As committee, we believe that this new perspective is not a panacea for all the ills that are affecting local government, but serves to redirect and reorientate all of us to go back to the basics in local government. We believe that if all the municipalities focus on the five key areas identified by the back-to-basics approach, which are putting people first; community involvement in the provision of basic services; good governance; sound financial management; and robust institutions with skilled and capable staff, the country will go a long way to repositioning local government on a stable, developmental trajectory.
Of course, our approach, and that of the department, is that we should not use one-size-fits-all for all the municipalities. This is why the back-to-basics approach recognises and advocates a differentiated approach in dealing with local government in the country. It categorises municipalities according to three categories, namely those that are doing well, those that are not doing well, and those that have the capacity to do well.
The committee is satisfied with the unqualified audit report that has been received by the department. Of course, our detractors and the apartheid apologists would want to engender in the consciousness of the minds of our people that the current challenges that local government is confronted with are as a result of the democratic state. [Interjections.] Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. The brutal reality is that what we are dealing with in this country is the legacy of centuries of colonialism and decades of apartheid misrule in this country and, of course, our friends on the other side ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you, hon member. Thank you very much. Your time is up.
Mr M P MAPULANE: The ANC supports this report. [Applause.]
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
SEVENTEENTH ORDER/ Mr M S MBATHA
SIXTEENTH ORDER/ Mr M P MAPULANE
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT – DDEPARTMENT OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
There was no debate.
Mr M U KALAKO: Hon Chair, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Mr M S MBATHA: Chairperson, the founding of this department in 2009 signalled to many South Africans the thought that our government would invariably, at last, consider the communities that were economically depressed during the times of apartheid, when it planned its economic journey. Surprise, surprise! This department’s main activity is its co-ordination.
It would have been better, according to the EFF, had this department taken a journey of economic planning. This means that it would have intended to introduce programmes and projects that really integrated South Africans; that pooled the communities that were previously white and previously black, not only to exist side by side as neighbours, but also to share similar economic activities and to be able to be redirected to prosperity by way of a strategy, the programme and objectives of the country.
What has been happening consistently, ever since the democratic government started, is that those economic zones that were founded by apartheid institutions, such as the homelands and many others that were designed to service the Bantu townships, have been a target of neglect. The big proposals and projects are actually not implemented in these areas. Some of these areas carry the biggest population and they carry no economic activities.
We used to have, in the olden days, some investments in the townships. Those investments were not only shop owners and tuck shops. We used to have big corporations hosting bakery stores, or what you would call bakery companies, and many other activities that rallied round the mass involvement of our communities, thus creating opportunities and employment.
Our view is that this department must change its journey in favour of an inclusive economy that is planned holistically. It must target the densely populated areas, target the women and youth, and make sure that it not only co-ordinates, but is also able to force municipalities and provincial governments to plan with national government. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause]
Mr S J F MARAIS
Mr M S MBATHA
Mr S J F MARAIS: Chairperson, the report must be evaluated against the performance of the core functions of the department, its plans going forward, and what is in this report. Except for the sterling work done by the Industrial Development Corporation, IDC, the Competition Commission and the Competition Tribunal, the rest of the department is lacking in terms of value for money and actual performance against the budget and the National Development Plan’s goals and objectives.
There seems to be a fixation within National Growth Path and National Democratic Revolution, so much so that the objectives of the National Development Plan, NDP, are neglected and negated to a mere academic document. Nowhere are there serious references to plans to meet the NDP’s objectives. There is no direct correlation between administration expenses and those of the core functions and the key performance indicators, KPIs, and with no real explanations.
It seems that the Minister has used funding budgeted for vacant positions on the Presidential Infrastructure Co-ordinating Commission’s publicity campaign, which seems to correlate with reported efforts by the Minister of undue political influence on etv. There was no report informing us in terms on which KPIs this spending took place and how this would assist additional economic growth and job creation.
On the question what the department has done, firstly, to try and prevent the reported job losses in the key job-driving sectors of agriculture, mining and manufacturing; and, secondly, what has been done afterwards to rectify and stimulate the recovery process, the astonishing answer by the director-general was, and I quote: “Nothing”.
The spending on administration, goods and services as well as capital goods is more than their budget, while spending on economic policy development, economic planning and development dialogue are lagging behind. These seem to be talkshops, which clearly have not helped to unblock and facilitate economic growth opportunities and exponential job creation.
The Minister has failed to show where his department has independently preserved jobs and significantly created economic growth, otherwise we would not have been in this dire economic strait. The Auditor-General also indicated concerns of internal control and management. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms E M COLEMAN
Mr S J F MARAIS
Ms E M COLEMAN: Hon Chair, it is quite surprising that the EFF, which hardly sits in the committee, comes here and talks of the issues that they are raising today. [Interjections.] It is also amazing that when the Minister addresses, or whenever the Minister addresses, in the few meetings that the EFF member attended our meetings, issues of the economic outlook of the country, they do not have anything to say. They are so quiet that I wonder why they do not ask questions, because the only conclusion I can reach is that they are satisfied and they really don’t know what to say. [Interjections.] To come and grandstand here and behave as though you don’t understand the reasons behind the existence of this department is quite a shame.
The department has been established, among others, to co-ordinate and unblock where there are blockages in order to be able to fast-track growth and create decent jobs, which are needed by this economy. The Ministry, both the Minister and the Deputy Minister, have on a continuous basis ...
Ms E N LOUW: Chairperson, I rise on a point of order! The hon member is misleading the House because the member that is serving in that committee is sitting right here and there is no way this hon member would keep quiet. Stop misleading the House.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, that is not a point of order. Please, sit down. Continue, hon member. [Interjections.]
Ms E M COLEMAN: That’s where it hurts. The truth will always prevail. They continuously briefed the committee on the challenges that are experienced by this economy and explained their role as a department, apart from the issues that the member has alluded to. There are issues related to, of course, the co-operation between the national, provincial and local government spheres. The unblocking of the blockages will talk to issues that have to do with, for instance, the mining value chain. I am unblocking there. That’s where many jobs are created because if you understand the NGP, it will tell you that that’s one of the job drivers. [Time expired.][Applause.]
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
Business suspended at 13:05 and resumed at 14:06.
Afternoon Sitting
POLITICAL PROCESS TO ADDRESS OUR CURRENT ENGAGEMENT IN PARLIAMENT
(Statement)
The SPEAKER: Hon members, one of the main constitutional functions of the National Assembly is that it provides a national forum for the public consideration of issues. The House is currently made up of 13 different parties, and it follows therefore that the engagement and debate will be vigorous, robust and even tough at times, particularly when members differ on matters that are significant to them.
The Constitution determines that members have freedom of speech in the Assembly and its committees, subject only to the Constitution and the Rules and the Orders that the House imposes on itself. Any limitations that you, as the House, have placed on your jealously guarded freedom of speech is there for the sole purpose of preventing the House from being impeded in, or prevented from, going about the important business it has in the interests of all the people of this country.
What transpired in the House on Thursday is not something that we are proud of, and we should all do our utmost to prevent any possibility of its recurrence.
Hon members, the Leader of Government Business has briefed the presiding officers on the meeting he had with the leaders of political parties earlier today about matters that affect Parliament. Following that meeting, a committee, consisting of the Leader of Government Business and leaders of parties represented in Parliament, has been established to lead a political process to address our current engagement in Parliament. One of the agreements reached is that the processes in respect of earlier disruptions in the House will be held in abeyance until the committee has completed its work. That also includes outstanding rulings.
I wish to express my appreciation for the steps that are being taken to attend to these matters. This institution is critical, and we need to work together to ensure that it contributes fully to deepening and strengthening our democracy. I thank you, hon members. [Applause.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
The SPEAKER/ EIGHTEENTH ORDER
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON LABOUR – DEPARTMENT OF LABOUR
There was no debate.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, I move:
That the Report be adopted.
Mr I M OLLIS: Madasm Speaker, the DA wishes to make a declaration and lodge its objection.
Mr P G MOTEKA: The EFF also wishes to make a declaration and registers its objection.
Declarations of vote:
Mr P G MOTEKA: Madam Speaker, the absolute majority of workers in South Africa are underpaid and work under difficult conditions. Unless there is an introduction of a national minimum wage of R4 500 in South Africa, the EFF will not endorse the recommendations of the report.
Immediate plans should be put in place to amend the Basic Conditions of Employment Act to put into effect the necessary minimum wage across all sectors. The obvious view is that a minimum wage of R12 500 should be made law for all mine workers. The Labour department does not have the necessary capacity to inspect the terrible labour practices in all workplaces and this must be changed.
The department keeps protecting the interest of business, such as Lonmin, who engage in price fixing, transfer pricing and base erosion at the expense of the majority of our people. The EFF says, give R12 500 to mine workers. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr I M OLLIS
Mr P G MOTEKA
Mr I M OLLIS: Speaker, the DA is in fact supporting this. We made an error just now – if you could just correct that in the record. We are supporting the Budgetary Review and Recommendations Report that is before the House now. However, we have some concerns, but a number of those concerns are addressed in the report – the concerns about the enforcement and inspection service, which the whole committee has agreed to put in the report. So our concerns are contained in the report and we are going to support the report. Thank you.
Ms L E YENGENI
Mr P G MOTEKA
Ms L E YENGENI: Madam Speaker, I wish to welcome the correction by the hon Ollis, because indeed in the committee there were no objections. We all worked through that report, through challenges, and as to how we were going to address them as a committee. However, I would want to say, I think that the hon member is confused - the one from the EFF - because he can’t be a member of the Portfolio Committee on Labour and come here when he knows that we are still busy conducting public hearings on the national minimum wage to come here and say that they cannot support the report on the basis that he demands.
In the first place it can’t be us who are demanding, it will be the people on the ground. We are busy with that process, so I think he is confused. Thank you.[Applause.]
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
NINETEENTH ORDER/ The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
EIGHTEENTH ORDER/ Ms L E YENGENI
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC WORKS – DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS
There was no debate.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, I move:
That the report be adopted.
Motion agreed to.
Report accordingly adopted.
TWENTIEETH ORDER/ Mr L W GREYLING
NINETEENTH ORDER/ The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON ENERGY – DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY
There was no debate.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, I move:
That the report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Mr L W GREYLING: Hon ANC Chairperson, the DA rises to object to the adoption of the BRRR for Energy as we feel it includes a specific falsehood that we simply cannot be a party to.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I know that the DA members have their own view about you, but you are in this House, hon Speaker, yet he calls you the ANC Chairperson and not hon Speaker. You are the Speaker and he can’t change that himself. [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: Thank you. Go ahead, hon member.
Mr L W GREYLING: The DA rises to object to the adoption of the BRRR for Energy as we feel it includes the specific falsehood that we simply cannot be a party to. The ANC seems to be hell-bent on manufacturing evidence to support their politically driven objective of pushing forward with the hugely expensive nuclear procurement programme.
The fact that there is now a broad base of opposition to the nuclear plants from diverse groups such as the faith community, Business Unity South Africa, Cosatu and all energy experts who are not tied to the nuclear energy industry is stubbornly disregarded by the ANC.
The ANC clearly has its own reason for wanting to tie this country into a nuclear deal that has the potential to exponentially push up electricity prices and drive our economic growth even further downwards. In their drive to push this nuclear deal the ANC has now even resorted to using its majority in the energy committee deliberately to misrepresent the finding of its own government’s updated 20-year energy plan, which specifically calls for a delay in the nuclear programme.
The DA strongly objected to the wording of the BRRR, in which it was stated that the updated energy plan reconfirms nuclear as a supply-side solution to meet environmental and microeconomic development objectives when it in fact states the exact opposite.
In a bizarre turn of events, the ANC argued that it would use its majority to vote down the DA’s factual statement that the IRP update calls for a delay in the nuclear programme and puts forward the financial benchmark to guide our decisions over this programme. The IRP update has clearly become an inconvenient document for the ANC as it pours cold water on the nuclear deal.
This is further evidenced by the ANC chairperson of the Energy committee, Fikile Majola, making a statement that the IRP update would not see the light of day. It was also stated by other ANC members of the committee that because the President had announced that we were going nuclear, the findings of the IRP update were simply irrelevant.
The DA will not allow the ANC to simply make up an energy policy that suits its own parochial political objectives, while compromising our economy’s ability to grow and create jobs. The ANC-led government should rather focus its attention on resolving our present energy crisis and ending the constant delays on finalising the Gas Utilisation Master Plan; adopting the IRP update; submitting the ISMO Bill to Parliament and instituting a procurement programme for cogeneration.
The ANC can try and use its majority to rewrite history, but in the end they will be forced to realise that there are no minority facts and majority facts, only facts that continuously point to major problems with its proposed nuclear build programme. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Ms E N LOUW
Mr L W GREYLING
Ms E N LOUW: Hon Speaker, the EFF is rejecting the budget report on energy precisely because it does not have the interests of our poor in rural communities at heart. It is not adequately addressing energy challenges in South Africa, hence we are experiencing load shedding day by day.
We are thus not ignorant of the fact that we need to apply an energy mix. However, your Minister is signing, day by day, more nuclear deals than solar, wind or hydro deals. So, then we need to come and ask who is fooling who.
It is thus evident that the majority party is not focusing more on greener energy and is pushing us more towards nuclear energy. Mr Majola knows that we have been discussing this in our committee and you know that these are our views, so please let us not use this platform to say, like the others have said, that you haven’t discussed this with your committee. You know that we have disagreed, both the DA and the EFF, on this report. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr J A ESTERHUISEN
Ms E N LOUW
Mr J A ESTERHUISEN: Hon Speaker, this department’s mandate is to formulate energy policies, regulate the frameworks and legislation and oversee their implementation to ensure energy security promotion of environmentally friendly energy carriers, and access to affordable and reliable energy for all South Africans.
Affordable and reliable energy are two things that we do not have in South Africa. Eskom has let this country down time and again, but it seems as if they are holding a gun to our heads because we never look seriously enough at energy alternatives or allow private competitors into our energy space. We just continue to dump taxpayers’ money into Eskom in the hope that they will eventually get it right. Why is this? We want to see far greater emphasis in the future on alternative and clean energy creation. We hope that this Ministry shares our vision. Having said that, the IFP supports this report.
Mr F Z MAJOLA
Mr J A ESTERHUISEN
Mr F Z MAJOLA: Hon Speaker, what we are seeing right in front of our eyes is a demonstration of the saying that very often the right needs the ultra left on the other side, especially when you pretend to be on the left. [Interjections.]
We had a discussion in the committee on this report, and the ANC obviously supports the adoption of the report. [Interjections.] The DA walked out of the meeting because, and contrary to what the hon member is stating, we had proposed in the committee that the report should say that the IRP update in the report must indicate that a revision was proposed as far as the IRP 2010 is concerned. The DA does not want to accept that; they want to put word for word in the report what the updated report says, a report that they know, a policy that they know has not been approved. So the approach was ... at the moment, as things stand, the IRP 2010 is what has been approved by Cabinet. The IRP 2013 has not been approved; it has no standing at the moment. So, there is no way that we could have put that in the report.
The pressing issue at the moment is energy security. We must stop grandstanding. The ANC supports this report. This unholy alliance of the right and the ultra left is going to collapse here in this House. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters and Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
TWENTY-FIRST ORDER/Ms A T LOVEMORE
TWENTIETH ORDER/Mr F Z MAJOLA
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON BASIC EDUCATION - PERFORMANCE OF DEPARTMENT OF BASIC EDUCATION FOR 2013/14 FINANCIAL YEAR
There was no debate.
Mr B A RADEBE: Madam Speaker, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Ms A T LOVEMORE: The Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report for Basic Education is excellent and the staff responsible are to be congratulated. The Ministry of the department, on which the report focuses, however, does not deserve as positive a comment. Minister Motshekga receives amongst the largest slices of the South African budget to deliver the quality education to which South African children have a constitutional right. She has enough money. What she does not have is quality education. Every measure shows this.
The Minister in her department finds creative, but highly disingenuous, ways to fool the nation into believing that they are delivering quality education. Two examples suffice to justify our contention: Firstly, the Minister reports that more than 13 000 qualified Grade R practitioners will be employed in our schools next year, but she fails to explain that these are in fact matriculants, not qualified Grade R practitioners, as any reasonable person might have expected. [Interjections.]
Secondly, the Minister was required to replace 140 mud schools last year. She replaced 34. Then the report tells us that if one adds the schools being envisaged and the schools being planned and the schools in the process of construction to those actually built, she is on target with a total of 140 schools. How utterly absurd!
The Minister has the money. She is fooling the nation into thinking that she is spending it wisely and producing quality. Minister Motshekga must now stop the denialism and admit her problems to South Africans, whom she serves, and then she must use the money she has to truly provide quality education, not quality political spin. [Applause.]
Ms C N MAJEKE
Ms A T LOVEMORE
Ms C N MAJEKE: Hon Speaker, quality education every day in class is a priority. The Department of Basic Education is committed to promoting quality education and skills delivery. To do this the department, teachers and parents must make sure that every learner does well at school and leaves our institutions with knowledge, values, skills and qualifications that will give them a chance in adult life.
The UDM supports the report and wishes to emphasise that the department must be given the necessary priority to the upgrading of rural schools’ Internet facilities as soon as possible so that they can also be part of the migration towards e-learning. Thank you.
Ms N R MASHABELA
Ms C N MAJEKE
Ms N R MASHABELA: Hon Speaker, the EFF rejects the report, mainly because many of our children in the Eastern Cape province and other parts of the country are still studying in mud schools. Infrastructure development in education remains a huge challenge and we feel that the ANC government is not doing enough to address all these challenges.
Teachers, particularly in the Eastern Cape province, are sometimes not paid. How do we expect delivery when teachers are not paid? South Africa spends 20% of its budget on education, or 6,4% of the gross domestic product, and yet performs dismally internationally in conmparison.
The World Economic Forum’s competitiveness index for 2012/13 ranks South Africa’s overall education system at 140 out of 144 countries; its mathematics and science education at 143 out of 144. Our feeling and observation is that the report is not adequately addressing these challenges and we see no reason to support it. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr A M MPONTSHANE
Ms N R MASHABELA
Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Hon Speaker, if one had to use an analogy, one would say that the performance of the department has been or is like what they call a “skorokoro” car, which switches on and off, and which depends most of the time on being pushed, pushed and pushed to start. [Laughter.]
This department has not had a head of department for a long time now ... [Interjections.]
Ms E N LOUW: On a point of order, Speaker!
The SPEAKER: What is the point of order? I can’t see ... [Interjections.]
Ms E N LOUW: Speaker, I noted hon Mandela on that side making hand signs here to us and that is unparliamentary. He cannot do that! Do not do that! Do not do that! [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Okay, hon member. If you address the Speaker, that should be the end of it; not the hon member. Hon Mandela, I believe you made a hand sign. Can you explain what happened?
Nkosi Z M D MANDELA: Hon Speaker, I did not make a hand sign at all. [Interjections.] I am sitting right here in my seat; I did not make a hand sign at all.
The SPEAKER: Well, hon member, maybe we should facilitate ... [Interjections.]
Ms E N LOUW: Can I just show you, hon Speaker? [Laughter.]
The SPEAKER: No, I believe you. What I prefer to do is to actually have the two of you come to my Chambers and we can sort it out. [Interjections.] [Applause.] I will invite you and the hon member. Sorry, someone was – in fact hon Mpontshane was on the floor.
Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Thank you, hon Speaker. I was about to enumerate some of the features which make our system resemble the “skorokoro” car. One of them, I have just said, is that for some time now this department has not had a head, since Mr Soobrayan left the department. One wonders why the head of this department is not appointed.
Secondly, we all agree that quality education is dependent on the correct deployment of teachers, especially in rural areas; not only teachers, but also teachers who are competent in their subject matter. We had hoped that the introduction of the rural allowance would attract suitable teachers to these remote areas.
However, this has not been the case since the department has withdrawn, except for the two provinces that are also on the verge of withdrawing those allowances. So, we will urge the department urgently to take another look at reintroducing these rural allowances. The most worrying issue is what I call – I know that the chairperson in our committee forced me to withdraw this term although I thought it was an appropriate term to describe what the department is doing.
When it comes to unions, most good intentions of the department are held to ransom by the unions. You take, for instance, the appointment of teachers. We would urge the department to do away with the observer status which unions is afforded. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon member, your time has expired.
Mr A M MPONTSHANE: I thank you, hon Speaker. I only obey your instructions, not the instructions of the other howlers somewhere over there. [Laughter.]
The SPEAKER: Are there any other declarations? [Interjections.] Yes, hon member!
Ms N GINA: Hon Speaker, firstly, let me thank all the members of the Portfolio Committee on Basic Education for the quality discussions and debates that we have in the committee. I think it even manifests itself today in the declarations, because if you listen to them attentively, you realise that much has been raised in the declarations apart from what had been discussed and thoroughly deliberated in the committee.
The issues of quality education – they are part of the report – were looked at by the committee. We looked at the steps that the department has taken and we were all happy that something was being done. Great strides are being made when you look at the issue of Grade R practitioners who need to be employed from next year. It cannot happen overnight that we would get practitioners with M+3 or M+5 qualifications.
Hence, the department has come up with programmes that are accredited to allow those people with Grade 12 to take those programmes. They can be taken as Grade R practitioners, which is a huge stride that our department has made.
When it comes to the issues of infrastructure, yes, we can agree. That was the year before last - the 2012-13 financial cycle – that you are talking about. However, on the report that we are discussing today, there are huge strides that have been made. Indeed, even today the department is still sticking to delivering a school per week, meaning that there is so much that the department is doing to make sure that the mud structures are being eradicated in all the provinces.
With the questions that have been raised by the member of the EFF concerning teachers in the Eastern Cape who have not been paid. It is news to us all in the committee and we wish that if ever the member gets to hear something like that she should come to the committee because that is the relevant platform where such things and other problems might be resolved. Otherwise, thank you very much to hon members, though it is surprising that we agreed to adopt the report, and then a member comes here, saying, “I am not in agreement with the report.” It raises the question: What kind of person is like that, one who would agree, but then all of a sudden comes here and grandstands? However, we will understand that. Thank you so much.
Motion agreed to.
Report accordingly adopted.
TWENTY-SECOND ORDER/ Mr D W MACPHERSON
TWENTY-FIRST ORDER/Ms N GINA
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF THE PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON TRADE AND INDUSTRY - DEPARTMENT OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY
There was no debate.
Mr B A RADEBE: Madam Speaker, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
[Interjections.]
Mr D W MACPHERSON: Can I make my declaration?
The SPEAKER: Okay, go ahead and make your declaration.
Declarations of vote:
Mr D W MACPHERSON: Hon Chairperson from Luthuli House ... [Interjections.] The DA objects to the report ... [Interjections.]
Mr B A RADEBE: Hayi! Hon Speaker!
The SPEAKER: Yes, hon member!
Mr B A RADEBE: Point of order!
The SPEAKER: Yes, hon member. What is your point of order?
Mr B A RADEBE: Speaker, I want the member to withdraw what he just said. You are not the Chairperson from Luthuli House. You are the Speaker of this House! [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon member Macpherson, I believe that what you said is not in the spirit of what the leader of your party agreed to this morning, and I would like you to withdraw, hon member!
Mr D W MACPHERSON: The DA objects to the report from the Portfolio Committee of Trade and Industry ... [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon member, please ... [Interjections.]
Mr D W MACPHERSON: I withdraw!
The SPEAKER: Okay!
Mr D W MACPHERSON: The DA objects to the report from the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry. We do not believe that the department is paying sufficient attention to the promotion of exports.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES – CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Hon Speaker!
The SPEAKER: Who is calling? Yes, hon member!
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES – CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: With due respect, can I request that we be procedural. There is an objection to the member referring to the Speaker as the national Chairperson of the ANC. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Yes, I have asked him to withdraw and ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE CORRECTIONAL SERVICES – CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: And the member has not withdrawn! [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER:: He withdrew! [Interjections.] The member withdrew. [Interjections.] Please proceed, hon member.
Mr D W MACPHERSON: The budget staffing and infrastructure is simply insufficient. Promote exports, and thus create jobs. It baffles the mind that with our current exchange rate, we have seen exports to markets like China decrease, while exports from Europe to China have increased. This simply comes down to the world to expand that market through trade promotion.
Another area of concern relates to the entities that are housed under the Department of Trade and Industry. We have seen the sacking of the Gambling Board, which we supported, but it remains a shame that it took our Minister two months to come before the committee.
We have also seen the CEO of the National Empowerment Fund, NEF, Mrs Philisiwe Mthethwa – that is the wife of Minister Mthethwa – earning a salary of over R5 million. This is based on answers that the DA received from Minister Davies and the annual report that was tabled before us. Yet the entity is unable to provide funding for emerging black entrepreneurs. Maybe we should be paying such CEOs less and put more money into creating jobs.
The DA also remains gravely concerned over the department’s stance on beneficiation, which appears hell-bent on focusing only on price discounts on raw materials, without any formal socioeconomic studies being presented on the effects that this course could have on job losses.
The DA believes that the government must focus on supporting an enabling environment, as envisaged in the NDP, to support small businesses and entrepreneurs through discount on administered prices to see jobs grow. The DA cannot support this report. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms N P SONTI
Mr D W MACPHERSON
IsiXhosa:
Ms N P SONTI: Ndiyabulela Somlomo!
English:
The EFF rejects the Budget Report on Trade and Industry because we think that the budget allocated is not adequate to address the challenges related to the promotion of trade relations with our counterpart in the Southern African Development Community region. They say charity begins at home; we do not see the budget addressing the immediate needs of our poor communities out there in terms of developing their livelihood through interaction with other sister departments, like Small Business Development, etc.
There are clear targets as to how trade should be promoted, both within the country and the region, for the benefit of the people of South Africa. According to Statistics SA, the 2014 unemployment rate is 25,5% and this department is failing to create opportunities for our people to be self-employed. We cannot rely on government alone to create jobs. The government should create opportunities for people to work for themselves and create jobs for others. There should be cogent and practical programmes that would seriously impact on the lives of our people, especially in terms of trade, and rural areas should be targeted with such programmes. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms J L FUBBS
Ms N SONTI
Ms J L FUBBS: Speaker, quite frankly, I am surprised at the hon Macpherson. Only a few months ago, when the ANC members tried to caution the DA in their excitement over championing the work of the National Empowerment Fund, we actually pointed out that perhaps they would like to wait until we had done effective oversight. We were told, we’ve done oversight, and we say ... [Laughter.] [Interjections.] ... we say, you shall be supporting, supporting in the House today ... in the House today! [Laughter.] Where are you? Where are you? [Interjections.]
Right. Well, there’s absolutely no doubt, no doubt, that your memories are short.
Now, with respect to the EFF, we agree with you. We totally agree. This is a department that has fulfilled all the objectives that it outlined as priorities. Those priorities are and remain the reindustrialisation of South Africa through manufacturing as a sharp instrument within the National Development Plan as a vision.
Then we are also saying that the other issue was localisation. However, we have yet to get 100% support from the private sector. Our own President has said that 75% public procurement will be there. And Minister Davies has said, we have not yet signed public procurement in the World Trade Organisation, the WTO. Thank God for that! Because otherwise we would not have been able to go and utilise public procurement in order to effectively promote localisation.
And we have so many things we have done: entrepreneurship, the Co-operatives Amendment Bill, the Small Business Ministry – because we recognise that more jobs are created through small businesses. Here is Minister Zulu, and there is the chairperson, right here, hon Bhengu. We have small business on the move because we know more jobs are created through small business. But let us not forget big business and special economic zones. Only today I read an article about Coega. We’re looking at a two billion double-digit investment in South Africa. South Africa! More than any other country in Africa. Today! Coega! Special Economic Zones!
Now, as for the currency, our currency is in the same position as many currencies. We only have to look at the dollar a few months ago.
The ANC supports this BRRR. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Motion agreed to (Democratic Alliance and Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
TWENTY-THIRD ORDER/ Ms N P SONTI
TWENTY-SECOND ORDER/ Ms J L FUBBS
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION – DEPARTMENT OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION
There was no debate.
Mr M U KALAKO: Madam Speaker, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Ms N P SONTI: Speaker, the EFF is not in a position to endorse this budget precisely because our international relations policy under the President is one of the worst kind. The endorsement by South Africa of the decision to kill Muammar Gaddafi was a completely out of order. [Interjections.]
Our foreign policy is not the interest of South Africans because it merely seeks to endorse the relationship between the President and his friends elsewhere in the world.
South Africa is not vocal enough when African leaders are selectively tried in the International Court of Justice in The Hague.
Mr M U KALAKO: Chair, I rise on a point of order. The hon member is misleading the House. South Africa never endorsed the killing of Gaddafi.
The SPEAKER: No, that is not a point of order, hon member. Please proceed, hon member of the EFF. [Interjections.] You are finished?
Mr M A MNCWANGO
Ms N P SONTI
IsiZulu:
Mnu M A MNCWANGO: Mhlonishwa Somlomo, i-IFP isukumela ukusho ukuthi iyawemukela lo mbiko okukhulunywa ngawo njengamanje. Sifisa-ke nokho ukuzwakalisa ukubonga kwethu okukhulu kumhlonishwa uNgqongqoshe Ehhovisi LikaMongameli, umhlonishwa uRadebe ngokuba aqikelele ukuthi izidumbu zabantu bakithi ababhubha esontweni le eNigeria zibuyela ekhaya; sifisa ukumshayela ihlombe kakhulu kulokho.
Sifisa futhi nokuqhubeka sibonge kakhulu imizamo eyenziwe uhulumeni ukuba abuyise ukuthula ezweni laseLesotho nalapho futhi sizwakalisa ukubonga okukhulu.
Sizwakalisa-ke ukukhathazeka kwethu ngokuqhubeka kwempi yombango elaphaya eMiddle East, lapho kunqunywa khona amakhanda abantu. Sicela nakhona ukuba sengathi uhulumeni ekanye nabanye ohulumeni bamanye amazwe bangashesha ukuthola ikhambi lokuthi lobuya buqaba bokubulawa kwabantu okwenzeka laphaya buphele. Siyabonga.
Mr B A RADEBE
Mr M A MNCWANGO
Mr B A RADEBE: Hon Speaker, the Freedom Charter, in 1955, declared that “there shall be peace and friendship all over the world”. The ANC has respected that 10th point of the Freedom Charter. Now, on the eve of its 60th anniversary, it is still championing that point.
What is very critical here is that, during this reporting period, South Africa’s foreign policy remains predisposed towards Africa and South-South co-operation. Last year on 25 May, South Africa, along with six other African countries, celebrated the 50th anniversary of the founding of the OAU, and its successor, the African Union. The OAU played a pivotal role in the defeat of colonialism and apartheid. It is now focusing on bringing about socioeconomic development in Africa. This is clearly expressed through the AU Agenda 2063, whereby we are now moving forward to integrate the African continent to ensure that, economically, from Cape to Cairo, the economy of Africa is integrated.
But what is also very important is that South Africa also continues with the peace missions on the continent. In line with this quest for finding African solutions for African problems, South Africa has hosted a successful summit on the African capacity for immediate response to crises in November 2013. This is actually precisely going toward what the hon member of the EFF was saying, that Africa needed its own solutions. The solutions on Libya were imported from outside. That is why the AU itself must be the one that must provide for that. This ANC government has done that and it is continuing to do so. It is making changes throughout the continent.
What is also important is that within SADC itself, this ANC-led government was able to facilitate and contribute to the resolution of the political impasse in Zimbabwe, which led to the successful conclusion of a negotiated constitution, and successfully... [Inaudible.] ... and generally free and peaceful elections.
The South African Special Envoy assisted in the successful constitutional mediation process in Madagascar, which has led to successful presidential elections.
This shows that the ANC has never abandoned the Freedom Charter; it is still living by it, even to this day. [Interjections.]
But what is very important is that this issue of international relations is not only about peace or only about human rights; it is also about economic development. What is very important about the Fortaleza Declaration – which was made this year – is that the South African government ensured that the New Development Bank would be created. This new Development Bank is going to counter everything that the Bretton Woods institutions have thrown at Africa. So this is really integration of Africa.
The ANC supports this Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report. Thank you. [Applause.]
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
TWENTY-FOURTH ORDER/ Ms M S MBATHA
TWENTY-THIRD ORDER/ Mr B A RADEBE
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING - PERFORMANCE OF DEPARTMENT OF HIGHER EDUCATION AND TRAINING AND ENTITIES FOR 2013/14 FINANCIAL YEAR
There was no debate.
Mr M U KALAKO: Hon Chairperson, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
There was no debate.
Declarations of vote:
Mr M S MBATHA: Chairperson, once upon a time, in this House there was a clever professor who, acting on his own instincts, closed a number of colleges, teacher colleges and nursing colleges. He was so inspired by his vision that that same vision inspired him to completely destroy the secondary and combined education system.
When someone else from the same party came along a couple of years later, he turned the spin on the very same clever professor.
Today, we sit with an organisation that, in another five years, woulddo something else that affects our communities so harshly, so drastically, that in the coming years our communities will be left confused.
Today, we have opened more than 50 technical and vocational education and training, TVET, colleges. Today, we have 25 universities and 23 sector education and training authorities, Setas.
My point is this, exactly. As a result of the years spent with colleges of education and nursing having been closed in various provinces, we have isolated thousands of young, black Africans in particular who were aspiring to be good teachers and nurses. Those young people had the doors to their future shut on them.
We cannot say here that all is lost for this department. We believe that this department has a minim of life. In that case, we believe that the injection into the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, is a step in the right direction. But NSFAS challenges cannot be resolved by putting more money into it. Currently the NSFAS finances half the number of students that it approved for financing. This means that it is able to finance to the tune of R9 billion, but that the actual bill for deserving students is approximately R15 billion.
So, our own systems and good intentions fail the very same black students. We would like to notify our black students as they prepare to enter higher education next year that, even if they go to an FET or a TVET college, even if they had received a letter that informed them that they would be financed, they would still be turned away at the door by being told that the money was not available.
Now those are shattered dreams. Those are stories that are not told in this House. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Prof B BOZOLLI
Mr M S MBATHA
Prof B BOZOLLI: Chair, we support the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report of the Department of Higher Education and Training. It is a good report. It reflects our discussions fairly.
But, without even a thought of grandstanding, or meeting the right on the other side of the left, we do wish to express our concerns about skills education.Society is not going to go anywhere unless our people have the 21st century skills that we need. But the area of skills is the weakest among those areas that the department covers. Several of the entities involved in skills training have had unacceptably poor outcomes. These include a number of the Setas which, from a low base, performed worse this year than last year. In fact, yet another Seta was put under administration only last month.The Setas are, in many cases, not the focused, cost-effective, well-managed institutions that we need.
Many of the TVET colleges have also had poor audits, and many of them are or have been placed under administration. They are either having forensic investigations performed on them, or they are receiving lessons from the SA Institute of Chartered Accountants on how to manage their books. Are we too busy teaching the teachers to actually worry about the students?
These are the most crucial institutions in the country for skills education, and many of them are in intensive care. The TVETs are supposed to be legally moved into the department from the provinces as from 1 April 2015. I hope the date of 1 April was not chosen as a joke, because it seems that the transfer is at huge risk. Many of the provinces don’t want to give over their funding and assets, and an almighty battle has been going on to get them to do so.
The much-vaunted multibillion rand National Skills Fund was unable to give exact details of the projects it supports, giving rise to the suspicion it is more of a slush fund than a serious contributor to the development of skills.
Finally, we also have major concerns about the inconceivably large gap between what the Ministry says it wants to do, and the actual funds available to do it. This department needs to be rescued from its own ambitions. Thank you.
Mr A M MPONTSHANE
Prof B BOZOLLI
Afrikaans:
Mnr A M MPONTSHANE: Agb Voorsitter, die IVP ondersteun die aanbevelings.
English:
But, having said that ... [Laughter.] [Appause.] ... across all political divides in this House, we agree that our country needs skills. South Africa is short o them. We all know that Setas were established for the sole purpose of providing our country, including universities, with the necessary skills.
We also know that these Setas are failing us. They are not producing the necessary skills, yet millions and millions of rands are poured into these Setas. Some are under administration. They are not producing skills.
So the question that this House must pose is, must we continue to have these Setas, or must they be abolished and that money, which is being wasted and used for self-enrichment, be diverted somewhere else, perhaps to the NSFAS, where there is a desperatey need.
The second issue I want to raise is the question of student accommodation. A year ago, a report was produced which portrayed the horrid and horrible conditions in which our students live. But, looking at your budget – unless I didn’t look carefully – I didn’t see any budgetary allocation aimed at improving hostel accommodation for our students.
Lastly ...
Afrikaans:
Agb Voorsitter, ek gaan nou terug Afrikaans toe...
English:
Chair ... [Laughter.] ... the NSFAS – which is a necessary fund – is failing the majority of our prospective students – not eally for a lack of money, but because of fraud. Many people are defrauding the scheme and I wonder whether the centralisation of the scheme will have any ameliorative effect on what is happening currently. I thank you, agn Voorsitter. [hon Chairperson.] [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Dankie, agb lid. [Thank you, hon member.]
Motion agreed to.
Report accordingly adopted.
TWENTY-FIFTH ORDER/ Mr B D JOSEPH
TWENTY-FOURTH ORDER/ Mr A M MPONTSHANE
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HOME AFFAIRS - PERFORMANCE OF DEPARTMENT OF HOME AFFAIRS AND ENTITIES FOR 2013-14 FINANCIAL YEAR
There was no debate.
Mr M U KALAKO: Hon Chairperson, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Mr B D JOSEPH: Chairperson, the EFF rejects the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report of the Department of Home Affairs because, in the first instance, this department is completely disorganised and in a shambles. Many of our people out there, especially in the rural areas, do not have proper identification documents. Many of our matric students have a challenge obtaining identity documents and this makes it very difficult for our children to focus on their exams because the experience of the logistics required during examinations is just traumatising.
The Auditor-General’s report of South Africa 2013-14 has registered a concern over contingent liability, which makes up 20% of the Department of Home Affairs’ budget. This simply means that there is an increase in legal matters against the department. This compromises service delivery.
The documentation for asylum seekers and other foreign nationals is extremely bad and in a shambles. The issuing of our visas and passports is just completely disorganised and the department is infested with corrupt officials who fraudulently give documents to locals and foreign nationals. This does not assist in the fight against crime. The department has not adequately addressed the introduction of electronic issuing of documents, where we are lagging behind in terms of development and technology. The EFF objects to the report.
Ms S J NKOMO
Mr B D JOSEPH
Ms S J NKOMO: Chairperson, the IFP supports the recommendation that infrastructure and staffing issues should be prioritised as well as the roll-out of one-stop border posts to other busy ports of entry.
We continue to note reports of the porosity of some of our entry points, particularly those on our borders with Mozambique and Zimbabwe. Such porosity through mismanagement must be addressed.
We further reiterate our call for the Minister to look closely at the processing of the VEC 4 forms for voting during elections and identify the weak spots in the process and make it impossible for the fraud to occur via the VEC 4 voting format in future elections. We still believe that there are many loopholes that can and are being exploited in this process.
The IFP supports this report.
Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM
Mr S J NKOMO
Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Chair, the NFP supports this Report.
Let me start by acknowledging that one is able to get a smart card within two days today, compared to before, when you had to wait for one year. That’s the first point. [Applause.]
Secondly, let me acknowledge that there are mobile Home Affairs units that go to rural areas, including schools, to provide learners with their identity documents. So I don’t see that the comment that was made is really true in any sense.
I must admit that there are challenges, but there is also great progress in the country in terms of the department of Home Affairs. [Interjections.]
Let me go one step further. The Minister of Home Affairs reiterated loudly and clearly in this House, regarding the electronic system, that a system is being put in place where every department, every branch of Home Affairs will eventually be electronically operated and thus ensure that there won’t be a delay in the issuing of smart cards and any other documents.
So it is progress in the making and I think we must acknowledge that and in view of that, the NFP will support the progress. Thank you. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms B T Boroto): Yes, hon member.
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson, can I address you on a point of order? Now that we know that the ANC and NFP is one party should we allow both parties to make declarations? [Interjections.] [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms B T Boroto): Hon member, please don’t do that. Let us not waste time calling for points of order that are not points of order. [Interjections.]
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: But we are wasting time because they ... [Interjections.]
Mr M S MABIKA: Hon Speaker!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms B T Boroto): No, no, no! Hon member! Hon member, please respect the House. Hon member from the NFP, sit down. Don’t worry about this. Hon member from the IFP, refrain from doing that, because from where I am sitting that is not true and I stand by that.
Mr M S MABIKA: Hon Chairperson, still on the same issue.
Mr B L MASHILE: Hhayi bo!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms B T Boroto): Hon member, yes.
Mr M S MABIKA: Could the member withdraw the statement she has made?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms B T Boroto): Hon member, sit down. I think I have already ruled on that. [Interjections.]
Mr M S MABIKA: She must withdraw! [Interjections.] Hon Chairperson, to say that she must refrain does not mean that she has withdrawn it. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms B T Boroto): No! No, hon member, I told you the other time; please let me do my work. Please sit down. Allow me to do my work.
Mr B L MASHILE
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto)
Mr B L MASHILE: Thank you, Chairperson. I just want to indicate that all the members of parties supported the report and the noise made here by hon Joseph is just a publicity stunt. Neither the hon Joseph nor the hon member of the EFF in our committees, the hon Gardee, was ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms B T Boroto): Hon member, wait.
Ms M S KHAWULA: Yes, Chair. We have been sitting here listening to members making their presentations and everything they are saying is misleading the House ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms B T Boroto): Hon member, I want the point of order!
Ms M S KHAWULA: I am giving you the point of order, Chair. They are misleading the House by saying that all the members in the committees have agreed. We read the minutes of the portfolio committee meetings and that is not true. As the EFF, we never agreed to anything in the committees and it is incorrect for them to come here and say that we have agreed. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms B T Boroto): Thank you, hon member. I see that you are aggrieved by the utterances and I think there are proper forums where you can raise that, but for now it is not a point of order, thank you very much. Continue, hon member.
Mr B L MASHILE: Chairperson, let me repeat that all the members of parties supported the report and I need to indicate to the hon members in the House that ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms B T Boroto): Hon member, are you still on the same issue? [Interjections.]
Mr N S MATIASE: Chair, I also want to repeat that what he is saying is not correct ... [Interjections.] The EFF did not agree in any committee!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms B T Boroto): Hon member, hon member, as I explained, that is a point of debate and please don’t waste our time here. Please, that is not a point of order! Assist us to continue with preserving the decorum that this House deserves, please.
Mr B L MASHILE: Hon Chairperson, I still need to repeat this message; that all members of ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms B T Boroto): Hon Chairperson of the Home Affairs committee, I still have another call. Hon Khawula.
IsiZulu:
ILUNGU ELIHLONIPHEKILE: Asimazi ekomidini. NesiNgisi akasizwa!
Mk M S KHAWULA: Mina ngifuna ukubuza ukuthi kusemthethweni yini ukuthi umuntu kuthiwe ubanga umsindo uma ngabe efunda into yakhe ebhalwe phansi? Ngiyabonga.
English:
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms B T Boroto): Hon member, let me say that I don’t see that as a point of order, but I can allow you to ask me those questions outside this meeting, and I will help you – outside this House - because you were obviously not calling for a point of order, but seeking clarity. I am ready to address you on that outside this forum.
Mr B L MASHILE: House Chair, I need to make this point clear - that all the members of parties supported the report and the noise that is being made by hon Joseph here is just a publicity stunt. I need to indicate that neither the hon Joseph nor hon Gardee, who is a member of the committee, was present when we adopted the report. They were absent. [Interjections.] Therefore, they have no knowledge of the progress that the department is making.
The department has turned the corner and we appreciate the wonderful improvement that the department is making, as has been indicated relating to the smart ID cards, the passports are being issued within a much shorter time, and birth certificates are being issued within 30 days. We believe that the ID modernisation in the department will remove most of the human elements in relation to corruption and fraud, and should be supported.
This department has just been rated second by the Africa Rating Agency on service delivery in this country. This is a feather in the cap of a department that is daily improving standards towards achieving excellence. We further acknowledge that this department is now expected to play its role in securing this country through cleaning up the population register as well as ensuring that all foreigners who set foot in this country are documented. This is a huge task that all South Africans should consider their patriotic contribution to our great democracy.
The Minister of Home Affairs is maintaining an open door policy. Therefore, anybody who has any suggestion should actually approach the Minister on this particular matter of Home Affairs. I thank you. The ANC supports the report. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms B T Boroto): Thank you very much. In the light of the earlier objection, I will go straight to the question. [Interjections.]
Mr N S MATIASE: Chairperson, can please have your attention, please.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms B T Boroto): You are allowed.
Mr N S MATIASE: Chair, I rise on a point of order on what hon Mashile has said, that there is an institution that has rated the Department of Home Affairs as the best performing department. Such an organisation should be from Nkandla and not from that agency ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms B T Boroto): Hayi, hon member, please! Hon member, I think at this stage we all know what points of order are and what points of debate are. Let us not go back to what I said previously.
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
TWENTY-SIXTH ORDER/Mr N S MATIASE
TWENTY-FIFTH ORDER/ Mr B L MASHILE
Consideration of budgetary review recommendation report of portfolio commitTEE on transport – DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT
There was no debate.
Mr B A RADEBE: Hon Chairperson, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Mr N S MATIASE: Madam Chair, the EFF finds it difficult to support this report. Just yesterday taxi operators in Gauteng were on strike against the poor conditions of the roads in the Gauteng province. They were protesting against the e-tolling system, which continues to abuse and exploit every least industry that generates a livelihood for the poor and the black households.
The EFF finds it difficult to support the budget and a report like this when the ruling party refuses to recognise the principle that the people shall govern and drop the e-toll system. The people of Gauteng have spoken and we stand by the diverse voices of South Africans who say, drop the e-tolls, because it is dysfunctional and is not taking South Africa anywhere. As a result of that we call upon all South Africans, those with serious concerns, to resist and boycott the e-toll system. [Applause.]
Mr M S F DE FREITAS
Mr N S MATIASE
Mr M S F DE FREITAS: Hon Chair, although the DA supports the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, we remain concerned about the lack of alignment with the core mandate in each of the entities in accordance with its respective legislation. Areas of responsibility are thus overlapping in certain cases.
Disappointingly, procurement processes continue to be of concern, something that we will continue to scrutinise. This has the potential of making the Nkandla scandal look like a primary school picnic.
It is with sadness that we note the cancellation of the 2014 Road Safety Summit. I put it to you that it was a smart move on the part of the Minister to save himself embarrassment because the recommendations for the 2013 summit were not addressed or taken seriously. They were ignored, just like those of the Gauteng motorists who were ignored on their opinion of the e-tolls. Well done, Minister.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms B T Boroto): Thank you very much. Is there any other party?
Mr K P SITHOLE
Mr M S F DE FREITAS
Mr K P SITHOLE: Chairperson, first and foremost the IFP supports this Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report. However, as a party, we continue to assess the department’s budgetary needs and shortfall against the department’s operational efficiency and performance. These reviews seek to establish whether the Department of Transport and its various entities have achieved their aims and objectives, as set out in their strategic plans, as well as whether they continue to fulfil their constitutional mandate.
This department has failed the people of this country on the question of e-tolls. They are unaffordable, not only relating to economic growth, but also for the standard of living of many ordinary South Africans. Another funding model must be found and the e-tolls must be scrapped. As we approach this festive season, we also call upon the department to step up its awareness on their Arrive Alive Campaign, and work closely with traffic police to ensure maximum police visibility on our roads during the holiday period. Thank you.
Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM
Mr K P SITHOLE
Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Thank you, hon Chairperson. The NFP has been, from the outset, opposed to the e-tolls. But let me also say that there have been many successes, like the MyCity in the Western Cape ... [Interjections.] ... the Gautrain in Gauteng, the planned infrastructure and railroad network throughout South Africa and in Africa as a whole. I think these should be welcomed. So, in light of that the NFP supports the report. Thank you.
Mr L RAMATLAKANE
Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM
Mr L RAMATLAKANE: Chairperson, the ANC supports this budgetary review and recommendation report. We have engaged with the department and all the agencies that report to the Department of Transport. They are doing wonderful work. We are happy as a committee that the report was adopted by all the members of the committee. There was no objection at all in the committee on this particular report.
We in fact, as a committee, believe that the report reflects the discussions, the views, the concerns and the recommendations that we have made to the department. In the report we said that the department should report within 90 days on the concerns that we have raised as a committee, including the appointment of senior management. In general terms, we the ANC, support this report. As far as the brand new member of the EFF in the committee is concerned, the member supported the report as well. The member who spoke is a brand new member of the EFF. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
Twenty-seventh order/mR S M GANA
TWENTY-SIXTH ORDER/Mr L RAMATLAKANE
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON HUMAN SETTLEMENTS – DEPARTMENT OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS
There was no debate.
Mr B A RADEBE: Chairperson, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the report be adopted.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): The motion is that the report be adopted. Are there any objections? No objections.
Agreed to.
Mr M WATERS: Chair, the DA requests an opportunity for a declaration. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Okay, no objection, just a declaration. Let me get it clear. Any objections? You are objecting? Okay, DA.
Declarations of vote:
Xitsonga:
Nkul S M GANA: Mutshamaxitulu na vahlonipheki va Yindlu, hi ri vandla DA ha xi seketela xiviko lexi xa Ndzawulo ya swa Matshamelo ya Vanhu kambe ku na swin’wana leswi hi navelaka ku swi vula mayelano na xiviko lexi.
English:
Chairperson, a few weeks ago, we were here in this very same House and we were discussing the Lwandle Ministerial Report. And during that discussion, or that debate, a lot of noise was made around what the Western Cape government and the City of Cape Town did not do but, surprisingly, when members of the community in Pretoria invaded peace of land in Nellmapius, very little was said from the side of the ANC. It seems as if the only people that they care about or the only issues that the ANC and the Ministry care about are the things that happen in the Western Cape, the best performing province in the entire country. But when things are happening in Pretoria, Alexandra and KwaZulu-Natal, nothing is said.
Chairperson, the other issue that I need to highlight is the issue of unfinished houses. I have travelled the length and breadth of this country, trying to do some oversight, and it is very disturbing to see that we still have a lot of houses that are incomplete. I mean, when I went to Pongola, some of those houses have been standing incomplete for the past eight years. And there is simply no noise from the ANC in that regard.
And when we ask, we are told that the contractor has run away; he has run out of money, but the money was given to the contractor. I think it is crucial that we, when we talk about Human Settlements, start by making sure that those houses that are currently standing incomplete are completed. There must be a sense of urgency on the part of the department and also by the law enforcement agencies to go after these contractors, who have actually stolen from the poor. That’s how I characterise them. But there seems to be no appetite by the ANC-led government to go after these contractors. It could be that they know something that some of us don’t know in terms of where the money went. But we need to make sure that we go after those contractors, because it can’t be that our people continue to suffer and the houses are half built and the contractors are left to roam the streets of South Africa freely.
Xitsonga:
Ndza khensa, Mutshamaxitulu. [Va phokotela.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Point of order, Madam Chair. I rise on Rule 63. While my member was making his declaration, hon Minister Zulu shouted “hhayi suka!” There have been previous rulings in this House that is unparliamentary, and I ask that she is asked to withdraw that.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, I remember sitting in this very chair and reprimanding a member of the EFF not to repeat those words. Unfortunately, where I am sitting, I did not hear that, but if it was heard, it was said, I really want to repeat what I said previously, desist from doing so. I cannot ask her to withdraw it; I didn’t hear it. Thank you very much.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam House Chair, I would ask that there is some consistency. During the course of the debate last week, hon Mileham said something to the hon NFP member over there. I don’t want to repeat it. I will not repeat those words, but I do want to say that despite the fact that it was out of earshot of the presiding officer, the presiding officer was alerted to the fact and hon Mileham was asked to withdraw the unparliamentarily terms he had used. So, would you, perhaps, ask the hon Minister if she had said it.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON: (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Steenhuisen, I get you, and I was ruling on what I ruled before. But for your satisfaction, I can ask the hon Minister if she said it, but my ruling still will be the same. Hon Minister, did you say that?
The MINISTER OF SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT: Hon Speaker, I did say, “suka!”
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Minister, thank you very much. Please desist from doing that; never again. [Interjections.] Don’t tell me. Please don’t tell me to do that.
The MINISTER OF SMALL BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT: Hon Chair, I am not exactly sure as to what is unparliamentary about saying “suka”.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Okay, hon Minister, please sit down! Can we say, in the previous sitting ... [Interjections.]
IsiZulu:
... Baba uShenge, ngizokunika isikhathi. [... hon Shenge, I will give you a chance.] ...
English:
... in the previous sitting, a member of the EFF said that word repeatedly, and I heard the member, and I had to reprimand the member and tell him not to repeat it, because some might not take it as something that is unparliamentary or derogatory, but it doesn’t seem the same way to others, hence I did not ask her to withdraw, but I asked her to desist from doing so. And, I am doing that with you too, and say, please don’t do that again. If we want to debate the word, we can take it to the correct forum to tell us whether it is parliamentary or not, but for now that’s how I rule. Thank you very much.
Mr P A MATEKA: Chair!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No, what is it about now?
Mr P A MATEKA: Chair, we expect the Minister, as senior ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No, hon member, thank you very much. I get where you are going.
Mr P A MATEKA: But we can’t have the same problem with the same person all the time, whereas she is a Minister. She must behave like a Minister.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, please. I think I have ruled.
Ms M S KHAWULA: [Inaudible.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto):
IsiZulu:
Mama Khawula, ngicela ungixolele. [Ubuwelewele.] Cha, angisafuni, ngifuna abaphakama nama-point of order. Ngimise uBaba uShenge ubefuna ukuphakamisa i-point of order, ake ngimnike ithuba.
Prince M G BUTHELEZI: I think, mam, it would really help you if I shared with this House - and it can be confirmed by my colleagues who are leaders - we had a very good meeting with the Deputy President, trying to stop us going this route of trading of insults and so on, and trying to actually to bring back the decorum of the House.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you very much.
Prince M G BUTHELEZI: We are meeting next week. I don’t think that we should add more things to what happened on Thursday and what happened on 21 August.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you for your guidance, but for now the ruling has been made. Thank you very much. I hope we will get the report of what happened this morning, but for the sake of the decorum of this House, let us try and make sure that we uphold it. Thank you very much.
Is that a ... What is it now, comrade?
Mr N P KHOZA: Comrade Chair ... [Laughter.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon Chair, please. And pardon me.
Mr N P KHOZA: Hon Chair, pardon me, I would like to make a declaration.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Proceed, hon member.
Mr N P KHOZA: Hon Chairperson, the EFF cannot be seen to be anywhere close to supporting this budgetary review and recommendation report, not while about 2 million South Africans are still in need of secure homes; not while her highest majesty, Minister Sisulu, is threatening to turn black people younger than 40 years into hobos; not while most construction tenders are given to the cronies of the ruling party, for example, those who came publicly to proclaim that they would pay the money President Zuma was ordered to pay back by the Public Protector for his Nkandla compound.
This budgetary review and rreport does nothing to change the lives of poor black South Africans ... [Interjections.]
Mr B A RADEBE: Chairperson, I rise on a point of order. The President is the head of state. His being the head of state, I think it is derogatory that his homestead is called a “compound”. We know what a “compound” is. [Interjections.] He must withdraw that. Thank you. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): [Interjections.] Hon members, why do you respond like that? Hon member, I will be advised on this issue and, please, I say again, do not use words that you know are belittling. Please continue.
Mr N P KHOZA: My apologies, Chair, I did not mean to offend anyone. It is just that we do not know what to call Nkandla now, whether it is a compound or a castle or what. [Interjections.] I am not trying to... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon member, please, let us deal with that outside this House. Do not continue if you need clarification. As I said before, there are better forums to give you clarification. Let us not bring it to the House.
Mr N P KHOZA: Thank you very much. May I continue?
This budgetary review and recommendation report does nothing to change the lives of poor black South Africans. It does nothing to alter the deeply entrenched apartheid social engineering and geography and it does nothing to ensure that black kids grow up in households that have some level of decency, while the Minister supports the outrageous cost of building the Nkandla castle for Mr Jacob Zuma.
Moreover, this department has no capacity even to spend the little resources to build houses for our people.
Underspending should be declared a crime against South Africans and Minister Sisulu must be chief criminal of them all. She is presiding over a department that cannot spend resources allocated to it to build houses for our people. We reject it horizontally, vertically and perpendicularly. [Laughter.][Applause.]
Mr K P SITHOLE
Mr N P KHOZA
Mr K P SITHOLE: Chairperson, the committee’s mandate is to maintain an oversight responsibility that ensures the quality process of scrutinising and overseeing government actions. It is driven by the ideal of realising a better quality of life for all people in South Africa. The department is failing in its mandated responsibility to the people of South Africa. Services at our hostels remain in a state of disrepair. Residents do not have access to electricity, water, hot water and in many instances they have no water at all.
Sanitation remains very poor, with the bucket system still being used in many areas despite the repeated past assurances by the government that it would have been eradicated already. Now the target is 2017. Our great concern is the steady increase in the number of residents in informal settlements as well as the lack of policy for dealing with the issues of backyard dwellers.
We hope the Minister prioritises the above issues. The IFP supports the budgetary review and recommendation report.
Ms N M MAFU
Mr K P SITHOLE
Ms N M MAFU: Chairperson, having considered this report as the Portfolio Committee on Human Settlements, and having followed all the processes, the findings of the committee on areas of success, and having noted those that needed special attention to improve the department’s performance, there has been a significant improvement in the overall performance of the department.
However, a more concerted effort to focus on key areas, indicated in the report, was required. By addressing these critical areas, the department would be in a better position to yield improved results and performance.
We want to state very clearly that none of the members of the committee who were in these meetings actually expressed nonacceptance of the report, including hon Ntobongwana from the EFF. She only asked a question about the empowerment of youth and women and requested that it be added to the report and she accepted the report.
We also want to note that all the issues that hon Gana from the DA raised are those that were discussed in the committee and the committee raised those concerns. [Interjections.] The only thing that we note with interest is the fact that hon Gana said in this House that the Western Cape is the best performing province. I do not know which measures he is using, because this is the province that has built only 62 houses in the past financial year. [Interjections.]
In any case, I am also very interested actually to watch with interest and earnest the nice courtship that is taking place between the EFF and the DA, and I am praying that it ends in a multiracial wedding. I thank you. [Laughter.] [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingnly adopted.
TWENTY-EIGHTH ORDER/Mr P G MOTEKA
TWENTY-SEVENTH ORDER/Ms N M MAFU
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON SPORT AND RECREATION - PERFORMANCE OF DEPARTMENT OF SPORT AND RECREATION, BOXING SOUTH AFRICA AND SOUTH AFRICAN INSTITUTE FOR DRUG-FREE SPORT FOR 2014/2015 FINANCIAL YEAR
There was no debate.
Mr B A RADEBE: Hon Chair, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Mr P G MOTEKA: Hon Chairperson, the EFF does not support this report, because the Minister shouts about transformation all the time, but hides behind the tables when challenged by Afri Forum.
Our sporting codes are not going anywhere. There are no sporting facilities in villages and townships, and school sport was there before, but died under the ANC. Boxing is much worse off than it was under apartheid and there is no plan to save the situation. Rugby is still predominantly white, as it was in 1960s, yet the Minister goes around pretending to be doing something. Targeted sports focus schools all are former apartheid schools.
And the department, in this budget, is not planning to build sports infrastructure in rural and township schools. The new South Africa can’t keep on building nothing new for our poor rural and township schools, but keep investing in already existing apartheid-built schools.
Build sport infrastructure where it never existed before, then you can come and tell us about a good story to tell. The EFF objects to this report. Thank you.
Mr M S MALATSI
Mr P G MOTEKA
Mr M S MALATSI: Hon Chairperson, the DA supports the budgetary review and recommendation report, but I would like to repeat what we said in the portfolio committee, that this department is punching way below its weight. We are extremely disappointed that there is no clear, outright plan to mobilise funding for an incredible plan, that’s the National Sport and Recreation Plan, which we support.
All that what we have heard from the department is frustration about its own failure to mobilise finances for the department, but we know why the National Treasury hasn’t released funds for this. It is because the department, the little that it has, does not spend it very well. It is not a model of financial prudency.
But, secondly, the Mass Participation Programme, which is the department’s vehicle for encouraging sports participation by supporting schools and communities, is underperforming in the extreme. For a programme that’s allocated more than half of the departments budget, it has failed to provide support to the over 4 000 schools that were targeted to participate in the Schools Sport Programme.
It has failed to undertake coaching for teachers who have been identified to spearhead coaching in these schools. On both occasions the department failed to come up with a justifiable reason for why it failed to deliver on this.
Lastly, the point we want to make is that there is an unhealthy overdependence by the two entities that are reliant on the department, these being Boxing SA and Sades. Both of them have no detailed plan of generating their own income to sustain themselves for their increasing mandate. As such, they have positioned themselves as entities that would forever be reliant on the department, which has limited funds to start with, as a pot of gold to finance their mandate.
But the other incredible point that we want to make is that we have a department where it is always the case of a great shortage, yet millions and millions are spent on junkets, jamborees and razzmatazz, instead of to invest directly in the grassroots development of sports, which if we do correctly, will enhance participation in sport. It will help us produce generations of champions, which is what we want for this country and if we do that, the Minister can have as many razzmatazz events as he wants to. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr K P SITHOLE
Mr M S MALATSI
Mr K P SITHOLE: Hon Chairperson, this department is the primary government institution responsible for formatting and introducing policy on sport and recreation, reporting and giving advice to the Minister who, in conjunction with the Cabinet, takes the final responsibility for government policy.
Transformation in sport remains critical in this country. Are we doing enough? Are we managing transformation correctly? Our rural areas are still greatly lacking the sporting facilities of our urban and peri-urban areas. What are we doing to ensure the roll-out of sports equipment across sporting codes to these areas?
Government must get greatly involved in the grassroots level sports. Sports facilities remain a problem that needs to be remedied across both primary and secondary school levels. I thank you for this. The IFP supports the report.
Mr M L W FILTANE
Mr K P SITHOLE
Mr M L W FILTANE: Hon Chair, for the UDM to support the report, terms and conditions apply. Here are our concerns as the UDM. There are too many programmes and very little progress to speak of. Boxing South Africa’s ongoing problem needs to be finally resolved, please. Transformation is occurring at a snail’s pace.
Last year underexpenditure remained a black spot in the profile of the department. Correct this. However, we support the budget. Thank you.
Mr S M RALEGOMA
Mr M L W FILTANE
Mr S M RALEGOMA: Chairperson, the starting point is that, in the committee meeting, all the members supported the recommendations, and we are surprised that they come here and raise these issues about which we are engaging the department. And we will be doing close monitoring of and oversight over the department.
The context is that in South Africa there is a National Sport and Recreation Plan, which was adopted in 2011, and it was also adopted by the Cabinet, as the road map for sport in South Africa. And we all agreed that we needed to engage Treasury to begin funding this plan, which was fully adopted by the Cabinet, because it required about R10 million, but we can’t ignore the challenges that are faced by South Africans - we want the whole amount of money to go to sport. But we will be engaging with the Treasury.
The second point is that more federations are aligning themselves with the plan, together with transformation and the scorecard contained in that plan. We have raised all the issues with the department.
I think that at the moment, we just want to go through the key areas that we are looking at in the portfolio committee quickly. The first one is the funding I have already touched on. The second one is the whole area of the 15% of Municipal Infrastructure Grant funding. We will be monitoring that very closely and we will engage the Treasury about that. We need to have the right to determine where we spend that money.
The third area that was raised, and we agree with that, was the whole question of finalising the full complement of staff. We will be putting more pressure on all federations to comply with the Transformation Charter and the Scorecard.
We also think that school sport must remain the bedrock of development in South Africa. The department, together with its entities, received an unqualified audit report. There are challenges with Boxing SA and the SA Institute for Drug-Free Sport, Saids, but we will engage with those two entities so that we can assist them to be in a position to be sustainable.
About the issue that was raised by our colleagues from the DA around mass participation, there is a challenge there, but we will be engaging with ... We support the report. Thank you. [Time expired.][Applause.]
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
TWENTY-NINTH ORDER/ Mr N SINGH
TWENTY-EIGHTH ORDER/ Mr S M RALEGOMA
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ENTERPRISES – DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC ENTERPRISES
There was no debate.
Mr M U KALAKO: Hon Chair, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
Mr N SINGH: Hon Chairperson, we have no objection, but a declaration is requested.
Mr A M MATLHOKO: Hon Chair, the EFF objects to the report and we request a declaration.
Mr M WATERS: Hon Chairperson, the DA objects to the Report and also calls for a declaration.
Declarations of vote:
Mr N SINGH: Hon Chairperson, as I indicated, the IFP will support the recommendations by this committee. We participated in the deliberations and we fully agree with all the recommendations that are contained here. However, I would like to emphasise a few of the recommendations.
It’s a pity that the hon Minister has left. She was here for most of the morning and afternoon. That recommendation is 8,7, where we as a committee requested the Minister of Public Enterprises to increase and strengthen oversight over state-owned companies through robust and regular interaction with the chief executive officers, CEOs, and board members.
That presupposes that the CEOs and board members are there. When we look at one of the state-owned enterprises - that is SA Airways, SAA - there is a lot that needs to be done in that regard, because one day there’s a CEO, and the next day the CEO is not there; it is the same with the board members. You find that there are eight board members, four dismissed, with two there, and two new ones. I think this is an area where the hon Minister needs to intervene.
One gets the sense that the hon Minister who is in charge and responsible for oversight seems helpless to do what she really wants to do with the SAA. There seems to be higher powers that dictate to the hon Minister in terms of what she should be doing or not doing. That is not a good state of affairs. It doesn’t bode well for the sustainability and good governance in state-owned enterprises. We trust that the hon Minister will really crack the whip with regard to the state-owned enterprises, because we are all proud of the fact that we’ve got a national airline carrier and we don’t want it to sink.
The second point relates to the report of the Presidential Review Committee. We do know that the Presidential Review Committee has made lots of recommendations. One of the recommendations is to look at the viability and sustainability and continued existence of state-owned enterprises. If you look at a state-owned enterprise like the SA Forestry Company, Safcol, one wonders whether there is a continued need for that particular state-owned enterprise to exist. These forests should be transferred to communities. People on the ground should own these forests and plantations and sometimes you get the CEOs and the board members from these state-owned enterprises trying to justify their existence. Thank you. [Time expired.]
Mr A M MATLHOKO
Mr N SINGH
Mr A M MATLHOKO: Hon Chair, the EFF would like to reiterate our firm belief that the Department of Public Enterprises must be dissolved as it is unnecessary and costly. All the state-owned enterprises under this department should be merged. For example, Eskom must be merged with the Department of Energy; Transnet, SAA and the SA Express, SAX, should be merged with the Department of Transport. Broadband Infraco should be merged with the Department of Communications. We therefore reject this report.
Ms N W A MICHAEL
Mr A M MATLHOKO
Ms N W A MICHAEL: Chairperson, unfortunately the only way to describe the current goings on in Public Enterprises is general chaos. The country holds its breath these days on a daily basis to see what the next problem or scandal will be to rock this already fragile department. Instead of strong leadership and a firm hand being used to steady the ship of our state-owned entities, the Minister rather spends her time writing me hatemail and making disparaging comments about my loyalty to the country. I suggest that the Minister writes to Eskom’s board and, even better, to SAA.
We need to ask some pertinent and troubling questions: Will the lights stay on? The answer is, no one knows for sure. When will the much talked about Richards Bay pipeline be completed? The answer is, no one knows for sure. Who is the CEO of SAA? In fact, does SAA even have a CEO? The answer is, no one knows for sure. Does SAA actually have a board? The answer is, no one knows for sure. What is the state of the Medupi and Kusile Power Stations? No one knows for sure. Finally, what happened at the Majuba Power Station? No one knows for sure. [Interjections.]
I think it is damning that in our country in this day and age a state-owned entity is allowed to get away with absolute murder and not even submit financial statements, which is exactly what SAA and SA Express did this year. We cannot stand by as a portfolio committee and agree to anything that is presented to us, because these kinds of things are allowed to carry on and the Minister sits back and lets these kinds of things happen, and we as a portfolio committee must put our foot down and say that enough is enough, this is South African money that’s being played with. It’s South African money that’s being wasted. Enough is enough, because South Africa deserves better. [Applause.]
Ms N L S NKWANKWA
Ms N W A MICHAEL
Ms N L S KWANKWA: Hon House Chair ...
IsiXhosa:
... uTata uNqakula ohloniphekileyo, uthi kuMgebe, xelela le dyongo ingathethi isiXhosa esingekhoyo. Ingxaki yeyokuba ndisixuba nesiNgesi. Tata uNqakula ndiza kuthetha isiXhosa esivakalayo nesithe vetshe.
Siyi-UDM siyayixhasa le ngxelo ingakumbi ukuba ujonga kwizindululo sesi-8,9 kunye nese-8,10 ezijongene nomcimbi we-Shareholder Management Bill ne-Shareholder Compacts eziza kuthi zikwazi ...
English:
... to enhance the oversight role that both the department and the committee ...
IsiXhosa:
... eziza kuthi zikwazi ukuyidlala apha kumashishini karhulumente. Laa mashishini karhulumente abalulekile kuba ayasinceda sikwazi ukuxova sibhaka xa silungisa imicimbi yezoqoqosho eMzantsi Afrika.
Ndifuna ukuthetha ngomnye umba ochaphazela imeko aphantsi kwayo u-SAA esixhalabisayo. Kodwa ke, makungaphosiswa, kuba bekukhe kwabhalwa unobenani apha kwathiwa uNqabomzi Nkwankwa we-UDM uphehlelele laa mama ungusihlalo ngokumncoma. Hayi liyinene elokuba besithetha inyaniso malunga nendlela asebenza ngayo, kodwa into yokuba usisinqandamathe sikaMsholozi okanye akasiso, asingeni ndawo kuleyo. Asiyiyo ipolitiki ye-UDM leyo. Okubalulekileyo ...
English:
... is that we must be able to celebrate black competence where we see it simply because there’s this preconception that ...
IsiXhosa:
... ukuba umnyama unegama elingathi linzima ukulibiza ufana nomntu ongaziboniyo iimpukane.
English:
I thank you very much.
Ms D B LETSATSI-DUBE
Ms N L S KWANKWA
Ms D B LETSATSI-DUBE: Hon Chairperson, the ANC adopts the report, but it must be noted that the ANC has the responsibility, the historical mandate, to hold hands with all South Africans in order to rebuild this country. The recommendations that were made in the committee are very clear and we don’t understand why the DA is trying to be impossible ... [Interjections.] ... and also the EFF, because in that meeting all of us agreed on these recommendations, that these recommendations would assist us to assist the state-owned entities to perform their mandates. [Interjections.]
We can’t come here and say what the DA is saying. We have said to the department that they should go and develop a framework to assist the CEOs as regards funding. We said that the department must go and strengthen the oversight over the state-owned enterprises. We also said in the recommendations that the department must go and introduce the Shareholder Management Bill, which will help the Minister and empower her in her oversight over the SOEs, including the issues that were raised there of the boards and the CEOs, which you say you don’t know whether they exist or not. [Interjections.] We also said in the recommendations that the department must ensure that there are punitive measures in place for underperformance against targets for board members and executives.
So, through all these recommendations, we are saying we support the budgetary review and recommendation report, because we know that through this budget the department will be able to strengthen and also assist the SOEs to perform their functions. I thank you. [Applause.]
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters and Democratic Alliance dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
THIRTIETH ORDER/ Mr N P KHOZA
TWENTY-NINTH ORDER/Ms D B LETSATSI-DUBE
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM – DEPARTMENT OF RURAL DEVELOPMENT AND LAND REFORM
There was no debate.
Mr M U KALAKO: Hon House Chair, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): The motion is that the report be adopted. Are there any objections?
Declarations of vote:
Mr N P KHOZA: House Chair, as EFF we vehemently reject this Budgetary Review and Recommendation report of the Portfolio Committee on Rural Development and Land Reform with every living fibre of our body.
This department has played a key role as defenders of apartheid land theft since 1994. The post-1994 state has been at pains to articulate their transformation ideals. But in practice, is there a major difference between the current government and the 1994 regime, which actively sought to marginalise and dispossess Africans? The answer is no.
What has this department done to redress the huge historical injustice brought about by the dispossession of black people of their land? How can we, therefore, endorse the budget review report, which does not cater for the settlement of the various land claims that were lodged in 1998? This department is the greatest insult to black people - alive and dead. It insults those who went to the gallows singing songs of freedom, hoping that their offspring would get back the land that was stolen from them. It insults those who are living, who spent the better part of their youth fighting for the return of their stolen land. Only a few portions of land have been returned to the black people since 1994, and that is an insult to the poor black people, who are the real land owners.
The department has paid one person about R1 billion to settle a land claim and gave this person, whom we view as a thief, the right to mentor the land claimants. It continues to legitimise the land with the thieves. Shame on you, ANC and Minister Gugile Nkwinti. You fool people into facing bullets and death in search of total liberation, only for to turn out, after 1994, as nothing more than a bunch of apartheid sympathisers. Verwoerd must be very proud of you. Tambo, Sobukwe, Biko and Hani must be turning in their graves.
IsiZulu:
Hhayi khona bakithi, iqiniso liyababa. Ayikho le nto esiyilwelayo! [Ihlombe.]
Mr D BERGMAN
Mr N P KHOZA
Mr D BERGMAN: Chairperson, we support this report very reluctantly and I would like to raise some reservations in this regard. The current contradictions in laws, policies and draft policies further exacerbated by law-making, determined by electoral gains rather than achieving land reform make meaningful employment of resources virtually impossible. This is evidenced by the poor performance of this department and the outcomes this department is meant to achieve, including making the institutions, giving farmers and farm workers security work.
We feel that there is clearly no intention by government to fund land restitution despite the fan fear of the ANC during the 2014 elections. We also feel that we see no genuine commitment to real redress, namely expanding actual property ownership. Taking land and vesting it in the state replaces one monopoly with another one; a state monopoly driven by corruption and inefficiency. Real redress equals the lawful, win-win formula of expanding property rights to as many South Africans as possible. When you own your property, your future has been restored. The state actively prevents that.
We see that land reform is politically abused by political parties and lands itself to increasing hate speech rather than the nation building process base don joint achievement which it was envisaged to be. This department is floundering from populous, superficial, quick-fix solution to popular superficial quick-fix solution. It represents a story of dismal failure and we see no reason why it will change despite this report. I thank you.
Mr M L W FILTANE
Mr D BERGMAN
Mr M L W FILTANE: House Chair, in support of the report we implore the department to think on these things. Uno, keep strict control over foreigners’ acquisition of our land; we need it for our own use. Duo, the underexpenditure of over R5 million remain a matter of concern; that was as of last year. Tres, the Ingonyama Trust Board still needs close watching. Quattro, restitution is rather slow. Some 1998 claims are still outstanding; find a solution. Dankie. [Thank you.]
Ms L MABIJA
Mr M L W FILTANE
Ms L MABIJA: House Chair, it is not true that we were quiet about the land grab incident which took place in Pretoria.
The committee issued a statement and had radio interviews with those radio stations which showed interest in the matter. As the ANC we always communicate with the public on matters of public interest. The ANC has clear policies on land reform and those policies are progressive. Therefore, there is no need for us to lead people in grabbing land. Those with eyes will see the progress made by the ANC to address the skewed land ownership. The ANC is on course.
The committee met on 22 October to consider the report. We all agrees on the recommendations contained in the report, except the one raised by the DA that the departmental plans are not in line with the National Development Plan, NDP, which we did not agree with as the plans of the department are aligned with the Sona, National Development Plan, ANC resolutions and other ANC policies. Some recommendations made will be addressed in the short-term, medium-term and long-term. As the committee, we will monitor the implementation of those recommendations.
We realise the improvements in the performance of the department and the challenges in meeting some of the targets, but plans have been developed to address those challenges, which is also our responsibility to ensure that those plans are implemented as part of oversight since we exist in order to assist the department to improve its performance.
The financial performance of the department was appreciated. The department has obtained an unqualified audit report. We have advised the department to ensure that its spending is aligned with its performance. Monitoring and continuous assistance of IDP is crucial to ensure that the IDP complies with the legal prescripts.
Some extended mandates of the department like the restitution require additional funding to address the backlog and the new claims which have been lodged to fast-track the restitution programme. We all agree that for the department to function effectively, it must have a clear human resource strategy, fill critical vacant positions and that it must be adequately resourced, that there must be an integrated approach to ensure comprehensive rural development and to ensure pre and post-settlement support.
Improvements have been done in implementing some of the previous recommendations, but there is still more to be done; Rome was not built in one day. The department is on track with addressing skewed land ownership and improving the lives of the people. The ANC, therefore, requests the House to adopt the report as tabled in the ATC of 24 October, from page 1645 to 1671 for detailed information. The ANC moves for the adoption of the report. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
THIRTY-FIRST ORDER/Ms A STEYN
THIRTIETH ORDER/Ms L MABIJA
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT PF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES – DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES
There was no debate.
Mr M U KALAKO: Hon House Chairperson, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Ms A STEYN: Hon Chairperson, I thank you.
Afrikaans:
Die Grondwet van Suid-Afrika bepaal dat elkeen die reg op genoegsame voedsel en water moet hê.
English:
It is therefore a tragedy that the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries’ intervention programme was found not to have a significant impact on food security and that 13 million households are still vulnerable to hunger.
While the department tends to overemphasise the financially unqualified audit as an achievement, it should be noted that this is only an indication of good financial governance and it is not related to service delivery or achievement of outcomes as is shown by spending 99% of the budget when only two-thirds of the planned targets were achieved.
Across all programmes the departments seems to make plans and set targets without linking them to its budget and personnel availability to ensure effective service delivery. The policies are important for efficient execution of the department’s mandate and responsibilities, as well as the efficient use of the financial resources, have been in the developmental stage for the past three years. And, this is coming out of our report.
The department has for the last few years been unable to deliver on sector transformation through the AgriBEE Fund. An amount of R331 million was returned to National Treasury. It is unacceptable that much needed funds have been returned to Treasury due to poor intergovernmental relations and lack of planning and vision on the part of the department.
The Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries received an amount of R6,18 billion for the last year. Approximately 60% went to transfers and subsidies, which consist of conditional grants and transfers to entities. A lack of accountability and the utilisation of conditional grants by provinces, which are attributed to the department’s poor monitoring of grants, skills capacity and poor planning in provinces, remain a challenge.
This leaves this department open to misuse during the election periods. I want to cite an example. Last year ...
Afrikaans:
Laasjaar het hierdie portefeuljekomitee die Vrystaat gaan besoek om R70 miljoen se trekkers en implemente te gaan soek. Tot op hede het ons dit nog nie gevind nie. Daar is ook nou gehoor dat die trekkers en ander implemente wat in die Oos-Kaap uitgedeel is, weg is. Dit is jammer dat die Minister of die Adjunkminister nie hierdie komitee besoek het gedurende die week wat ons die BRR-verslag bespreek het nie. Ek het nou net gehoor ...
English:
... that R47 million was spent on building eight poultry units in Mpumalanga in the past year. This is exactly the problem in this department. They are sending out money to provinces, but no one is checking on them. People will stay hungry in South Africa if this department doesn’t pull up its socks.
I must just say that the Chairperson of the portfolio committee has been very good to us. She has given us a lot of her time. We even sat until 11 0’clock one evening to make sure that we go through all the reports. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr B D JOSEPH
Ms A STEYN
Mr B D JOSEPH: House Chairperson, the EFF advocates for a truly egalitarian agrarian economy; one that is wildly representative of all our people. The ANC government and this department have completely killed the peasantry and shamelessly supported white monopoly agricultural establishments. They even go to the extent of partnering up emerging and hardworking black farmers with whites before they can support them.
How can we support a Budget Review of a department which seeks to entrench a status, to black farmers, of being permanent juniors to white farmers? Most land is lying fallow in the former Bantustans, not because they do not want to farm, but because this department does not want to support their farming. Most land reform farms are falling to pieces, but because this department has a useless agricultural extension service.
Why this Ministry was separated from the Ministry of Land Reform is mindboggling. This delays land and agriculture and therefore compromise the comprehensive resolution of the land and agrarian question. Even the most established farmers are struggling to make ends meet, not because they are useless.
Over 80% of the maize consumed of this country is generally modified, is a gross affront against the people of this country and a serous health implication; a horror of all horrors. The Minister’s stance on the fishing quarters in the Western Cape, which seeks to condemn to perpetual poverty all those whose livelihoods are dependant on fishing. The EFF cannot support this daylight robbery of our people and therefore objects to the adoption of this report. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M L W FILTANE
Mr B D JOSEPH
Mr M L W FILTANE: House Chairperson, the UDM has been moved by the undermentioned causes to support this report. The department needs more pragmatic plans and steps to fight the lack of food by millions of South African citizens.
IsiXhosa:
Balambile abantu bakithi! Balambile!
English:
It is for that reason we say this Budget must pass ...
IsiXhosa:
... ukwenzela ukuba bayokwenzelwa ukutsa. Enkosi. [Ihlombe.]
Mr M HLENGWA
Mr M L W FILTANE
Mr M HLENGWA: House Chairperson, I think that the time has come for the department must undergo a paradigm shift. This era of big phrases, big words and big terminologies are neither here nor there. The bottom line is that we need to farm the land and feed our people.
There is the major problem of crime in our country and if it is not addressed, it is going to escalate into a national catastrophe. In fact, the Human Sciences Research Council estimates that over 46% of our people are not food secure. There is a major hunger problem in the country.
So we’ve heard the terminologies by the Deputy Minister, saying that she is going to “sexify” agriculture. All those things mean absolutely nothing in the absence of political will, which should lead to political action and our farming the land.
We need to go back to the basics; subsistence farming. We need to be able to give our people the bare and necessary skills in order for them to make their own ends meet; sustainable livelihoods, self-help and self-reliance. Let’s teach our people how to fish and not give them a fish.
The dependency syndrome is not going to sustain this country. At some point everybody must roll up their sleeves and get their hands dirty. These big things which are being thrown around are not getting us anywhere. It begins with us in this room taking this matter very serious. We are taking the issue of food security for granted because we go to bed with food, but there are millions of people in this country, on a daily bases, who are just struggling to make one meal a day.
So we are pleading with the department. Let’s go back to the basics; let us farm the land. Let us run away from the fancy rhetoric, which does not put food on the tables of our people. What more must be said, what more must be done? We are sick and tired of having to come back here every single time, every single year, saying the same thing over and over again.
There needs to be a change, a mindset change. I’ve said to the Minister that he must not lean on the shoulders of his predecessor, because the former Minister caused the collapse this department. Whilst they are building the structures and whatever it is which the department is building, the bottom line is that the land needs to be farmed and our people must be fed. Thank you very much.
Mr M D GUMEDE
Mr M HLENGWA
Mr M D GUMEDE: House Chairperson, the ANC supports the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report of the Portfolio Committee on Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries but before I continue, I have to say this first. I think it is a disgrace; we have to say it. The DA and the EFF are very angry, because the ANC received an unqualified audit report. Now, members of the committee from the opposition are very angry. So, it’s a disgrace! [Interjections.]
The report is fine, because it recommends additional funding through the Programme 2 and Programme 3 in order to cater of this currently unfunded mandates which the departments has to implement, such as Fetsa Tlala Integrated Food Production Initiative. Programme 2 and Programme 3 talk directly to what hon Steyn was saying.
As we are speaking now, the delivery or allocation of implements, delivery of tractors, delivery of fertilisers through the mechanisation programme under the Comprehensive Agricultural Support Programme, CASP, are still continuing outside. As we are sitting here, delivery is talking place outside. I don’t know what we are talking about here.
Secondly, we all want to see South Africa as a developmental state, while we are talking economics. The portfolio committee has emphasised a need to streamline the activities of the department with provincial departments as well as the entities for the heightened and more focused impact of the programmes of government.
Practically, there are specialised service providers for our agriculture sectors, especially for those people who were previously disadvantaged, because we must be biased towards them as the ANC. We are dealing with that because we are talking of the Agricultural Research Council. We are talking about the Agricultural Marketing Resource Centres. Those are specialised services that we are rendering to our people to build capacity.
The capacity constraints within the department are being adequately addressed with the filling of critical positions. That’s a positive, which will contribute to improved programme performance of the targets planned at national level. You know, at national level, the President himself made the pronouncement that we need to take the approach of radical economic development. That is what we are trying to do. We are talking of the National Growth Path and we are talking of the National Development Plan. All these documents talk to changing the lives of our people through government assistance and government programmes.
The Integrated Growth and Developmental Plan and the Agricultural Policy Action Plan will serve as overarching guiding policy documents that rally some of the activities of the department.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you very much, hon member; your time is up.
Mr D M GUMEDE: We support the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report of the Portfolio Committee on Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries. Thank you. [Applause.]
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
THIRTY-SECOND ORDER/ Dr A LOTRIET
THIRTY-FIRST ORDER/Mr M D GUMEDE
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY - PERFORMANCE OF DEPARTMENT OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY FOR 2013-14 FINANCIAL YEAR
There was no debate.
Mr B A RADEBE: Hon Chairperson, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Dr A LOTRIET: Chair, the Department of Science and Technology has to be commended for the work they are doing. But, going through all the reports, there are, however, a few concerns that have to be addressed. The first of these is the Auditor-General’s findings that there was a regression in compliance with supply chain management policies and that there was no improvement in terms of the verification process followed for new appointments. As we have recently seen, this could lead to people being appointed to senior positions without the requisite qualifications and thus resulting in material noncompliance. This has to be addressed as a matter of urgency.
Another point of concern is the uptake of the tax incentive for research and development. If we want to reach the target of 1,5, a very ambitious target, or even 1% of gross domestic product, GDP, for research and development, access to this incentive should be revised, made more attractive and processed more effectively.
The situation at the Technology Innovation Agency is also very concerning. This is the agency that should be at the forefront of technological innovation in the country and should be one of the drivers of job creation. However, the Technology Innovation Agency, TIA, remains beset by problems. The uncertainty that staff are experiencing due to the looming retrenchment of almost a third of its staff members does not augur well for the agency. This is the one sector where we cannot shed jobs. This should be the one area and which the country should be investing and where there should be certainty and development. But it seems that the importance of this is ignored or not acknowledged.
However, having said this, this department is one of the few glimmers of hope and the main challenge thus is to keep it performing at this level. The DA supports the budgetary review and recommendation report.
Ms E N LOUW
Dr A LOTRIET
Ms E N LOUW: Chairperson, the EFF rejects this BRRR. Our scientists in South Africa are still facing the situation that the innovations are just conference establishments, so we need to move away from the concept that our scientists must innovate stuff and then it is only exhibited at conferences.
There is also no clear plan that has been created in order that the innovations of our our scientists could be market-related. So, we need to create a market for all of the innovations that the scientists are creating.
Women scientists in the department are still lacking, especially black women. We cannot come to this House and celebrate one or two women; we need more black women in this department and more black scientists. Also an eye opener - for the doctor over there - the chairperson asked one of the scientists when we visited the University of the Western Cape: What is your reason for staying and working in this department? The scientist said: “It’s basically because I love this job.” One day this love will run out and we need to find clear ways of letting our scientists stay within our country, and ensure that our scientists’ innovations are sold within the market.
If we get science and technology right and we focus on it right - the ANC-led government – this can be a game changer for the markets out there. But if you continue to let this department just be a troubled child, or something that makes you put your ANC branch here in Cape Town; if you continue to do that, this department will fail and our scientists are clearly going to leave this country. That is the reality that we need to face. We need a Ministry that is confident and motivated to sort out our science and innovation issues within this country, not just in a branch of the ANC, Deputy Minister. Thank you, Chair. [Interjections.] [Applause.] Ms L M MASEKO
Ms E N LOUW
Ms L M MASEKO: Deputy Speaker, the ANC accepts and supports this BRRR. We acknowledge the fact that science and research have not penetrated much, especially in the historically disadvantaged areas, and never has the impact that it is supposed to have on our economy and for our development. As a consequence of this, we believe that a serious consideration needs to be fast-tracked, namely that 1,5% of the GDP should be allocated to this department for science, research, innovation and development. This report even proposed that there should be a separate vote for research and development so as to be able to achieve the above-mentioned.
The Department of Science and Technology, unlike other departments, is competing globally and would like to compete as such with other developed and developing countries. The Square Kilometer Array and the MeerKAT are examples of this.
The issue of the TIA is being handled by the National Education, Health and Allied Workers' Union, Nehawu, and they’re doing a good job on that. We would also like to applaud the department and its entities for making joint efforts to producing more doctors of philosophy, PhDs, with the aim of increasing the number to one thousand PhDs per annum, with special focus on women and black women in particular. The ANC once again supports the report. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
THIRTY-THIRD ORDER/ Mrs Z B N BALINDLELA
THIRTY-SECOND ORDER/Ms L M MASEKO
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON WATER AND SANITATION – DEPARTMENT OF WATER AND SANITATION
There was no debate.
Mr B A RADEBE: Deputy Speaker, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Mrs Z B N BALINDLELA: Hon Deputy Speaker, the DA would like, first of all, to congratulate the new Director General of the Department of Water and Sanitation, Mrs Margaret-Anne Diedricks, and also thank Mr Trevor Balzer, who has been holding the fort, acting as director-general for the last one and a half years.
Whilst we supported the report, it is also alarming that on the Rand Water crisis the hon Minister was silent for two weeks and called the issue a technical glitch. The hon Minister has been absent from oral questions in the NCOP, and also here. The Minister does not attend any of our meetings. The Minister does not have a clearly articulated vision of the department and is not implementing the vision of the Department Water and Sanitation in toto. [Interjections.]
I am sorry ... my spectacles are... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, members! Let the member speak.
Mrs Z B N BALINDLELA: The hon Minister did not honour her agreement to formalise the mine licences by 31 October 2014. It is also extremely worrying that the Minister has not been there and that the chairperson is the only person who has always been there. We would like to thank the chairperson for the direction he has given. We also, as the DA, request that the department acts stringently on mines polluting our water resources and also impose the penalties, and implement the Safe Drinking Water Act of 2014.
IsiXhosa:
Ngoba ke Sekela Somlomo, eli Sebe alikapheleli kuba kukho eli cala lelindle esingekaliqala nokuliqala sisalinde iingxelo zelindle nezeebhodi zamanzi ezifanele ukungeniswa kwisithuba seenyanga ezintathu ezizayo. Nangona ke sisithi siyayixhasa le ngxelo, siyayondlala into yokuba sisithi asanelisekanga luhlobo ohloniphekile uMphathiswa awuqhuba ngawo lo mcimbi. Enkosi Sekela Somlomo. [Uwelewele.] Ms M S KHAWULA
Mrs Z B N BALINDLELA
IsiZulu:
Nks M S KHAWULA: Sihlalo, njenge-EFF asiseseki lesi sabiwomali. Inkinga eyenza ukuthi singaseseki lesi sabiwomali ukuthi – siyabonga impela uyawenza umsebenzi wakhe, njengeoba noMqondisi-Jikelele esho, bakhombisa ngokusobala ukuthi bazimisele ukubona abantu baseNingizimu Afrika bethola amanzi. Simbonge futhi njengoba noMqondisi-Jikelele ofikile esho.
Inkinga ebuhlungu ukuthi kade sasikhala ngala manzi. Umhlaba wonke: eGoli le ko-Lenisia amanzi awekho, eBhizana kuTsolo naKwaZulu-Natali abantu abanawo amanzi, baphuza nezilwane, nezinkomo uqobo.
Kubuhlungu ukubona abantu bakithi la eNingizimu Afrika bethi ibona abaphethe la kodwa uma sekukhulunywa ngezidingo zabantu bayamemeza baklabalase. Ayikho into ebuhlungu njengalesi sihloko samanzi. Zonke lezi zindawo esizibalayo awekho amanzi.
Umbuzo engizibuza wona uthi uma umuntu ethi, “Good story to tell” yini ekhona enhle abantu bengawatholi amanzi bengagezile? Kudlalelwani ngabantu? Ikakhulukazi emakhaya amanzi awekho, izingane zesikole laphaya eMthandeni, njengoba ngikhuluma nawe nje Sihlalo, izingane zakhona uma zihamba ngisaba ngisho ukusho ukuthi zihamba zinyathela indle. Ibuhlungu ngempela le ndaba yokuthi sizothi uma sesila ePhalamende singasho ukuthi izinto zonakele uma zonakele. Ngiyesaba ukuthi kanti yingakho intuthuko ingayi kobantu ikakhulukazi abasemakhaya. [Uhleko.]
English:
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, hon members! You can’t do that, please!
IsiZulu:
Nks M S KHAWULA: Okubuhlungu engifuna ukukusho la ngoba sengiyabona kuyadlalwa la, uyabona emalokishini uma ngabe wena unenkinga warobha amanzi noma mhlawumbe uhluleka ukukhokhela amanzi, akuxoxiswana nawe kuvele kusiphulwe imitha usale ungenawo amanzi. Sinabantu thina abagulayo emalokishini abangenawo amanzi, kodwa uthola ukuthi njengamanje ezimayini kunamanzi akhona angabhalisiwe, nangakhokhelwa lutho, kunalokho kuxoxiswana nabo kodwa kobantu akuxoxiswana nabo babuzwe ukuthi bazokwenzenjani!
Uma ngibuyela kule yaNgqongoshe – yingakho sinoNgqongqoshe nePhini lakhe kwenzelwa ukuthi uma egula kube nePhini lakhe! Kodwa abafuni bonke ukuza phambi kwethu! Uhulumeni we-ANC unenkinga yabantu abagcwele iPhalamende abakwazi ukucindezela abantu bakubo.
IPHINI LIKASOMLOMO: Isikhathi sesiphelile.
Nks M S KHAWULA: Sisenkingeni. Ngaleyo ndlela siyacela Sihlalo ubakhuze laba bantu abamemezayo beklabalasa.
IPHINI LIKASOMLOMO: Sengibakhuzile-ke mama. Isikhathi sesiphelile!
Mr A M MPONTSHANE
Ms M S KHAWULA
Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I must first express my appreciation for what the chairperson of the committee does. Whenever it meets, he puts aside 10 minutes for members of the committee to table issues from their constituencies. We appreciate that.
Having said that, I remain flummoxed by what the hon Minister sometimes comes here and tells the House when it comes to service delivery. There seems to be a gap between what the hon Minister tells this House and what one obtains on the ground.
Last week, in a celebratory mood, she stood up and told this House that there was water in Jozini. I come from Jozini and I was in Jozini this weekend. There is no water.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, please take your seat. You cannot be standing while the hon member is speaking to the Chair. Go ahead, hon member.
Mr A M MPONTSHANE: She told the House that there is water at Jozini. I come from Jozini and there is no water. There seems to be confusion between what I call service plans and service delivery on the ground. I would request when we come back, deo volente, that the committee undertakes oversight in those areas to see for itself that there is no water, whereas the Minister says there is.
Secondly, we have instances where service providers are paid for not having delivered the services. AtUmkhanyakude, we have stacks and stacks of pipes that have been lying in the veld for five years now. Millions of rands were paid to a known service provider. Fortunately, or unfortunately, that service provider has since been married to an MEC who is responsible for that portfolio. [Laughter.] [Interjections.] Nobody wants to account for those pipes and the money that was used to pay for those pipes. We request that the portfolio committee urges the department to investigate such malpractice. Thank you. [Time expired.]
Mr M JOHNSON
Mr A M MPONTSHANE
IsiZulu:
Mnu M JOHNSON: Somlomo ohloniphekile, ake ngibuze kuMam’ uKhawula ukuthi usho ukuthini uma ethi: Akahambisani nalesi Sabiwomali? Uma sithi asisifuni iSabiwomali sisuke sithi asifuni ukuphakela abantu amanzi nokubathuthela indle. Uma sithi asiyifuni, kusho ukuthi nakwamanye amakomiti sithi ...
English:
... when you say you do not agree with this budget recommendation, you are simply saying you do not agree with progress; going forward towards improving the lives of our people for the better. That is in simple terms what you are saying. Again, precisely because water and sanitation are a human rights issues, the ANC wall continue with its track record and programmes of bringing about a better life for all of our people.
The single question, again, I repeat: How do you begin to have the audacity to say no to a budget that seeks to bring about a better life for our people? The people’s movements support all the recommendations, as agreed to by the all members of the committee respectively in the Portfolio Committee on Water and Sanitation that can only do one thing, move our country forward. As the ANC, we support these recommendations. Thank you. [Applause.]
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
THIRTY-FOURTH ORDER/Mr T Z HADEBE
THIRTY-THIRD ORDER/ Mr M JOHNSON
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS – DEPARTMENT OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS
There was no debate.
Mr B A RADEBE: Deputy Speaker, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Mr T Z HADEBE: Deputy Speaker, the department received an unqualified audit opinion from the Auditor-General for the current financial year under review. Nevertheless, I would like to draw the Minister’s attention to the following upsetting findings by the Auditor-General, which need to be attended to urgently.
The first is the quality of submitted financial statements. One auditee avoided qualification by correcting material misstatements during the audit process.
The second is the status of noncompliance with legislation. There is significant noncompliance by two auditees, which relates to non-compliance with supply chain management policy.
The third is the fruitless and wasteful expenditure, which remains worryingly high, amounting to R26 million. This expenditure relates to transferred payments, which were not adequately monitored when the transfers were made. Although the fruitless and wasteful expenditure figure rose because of the investigation initiated by the department, this would never have happened had controls and risk management measures been in place.
In a nutshell, all is not doom and gloom in the department. The DA is pleased with the findings of the Auditor-General’s report, but urges the department to focus on key areas for improvement as outlined by the report. There is more than enough room for improvement. The DA supports the report. Thank you.
Mr N P KHOZA
Mr T Z HADEBE
Mr N P KHOZA: Deputy Speaker, the department’s plan and resource allocation do not assist to curb the ecological disaster facing humanity as a result of global warming. South Africa is one of the greatest emitters of greenhouse gases. This budgetary review and recommendation report does nothing to address the ecological problems of our time. It does nothing to clarify what roles institutions like the South African National Bioinformatics Institute — which have become one of the last bastions of white supremacy — need to play to avert this ecological and humanitarian disaster that climate change will prove to be.
This department has no plans to bring its racist agencies back kicking and screaming into a democratic South Africa. The EFF says very clearly: Firstly, no to nuclear energy. We remember the human and economic disaster in Japan. Let us not repeat the mistake. Secondly, no to shale gas fracking. Thirdly, no to coal-based energy sources.
We must ask, who is going to pay the human and ecological debt of capitalist profiteering. The mining houses have poisoned the water sources of the Reef, yet it is the department that is paying for cleaning up their acid mine drainage mess. The mines continue to exploit and poison our people.
What must be done? Firstly, let us adopt the One Million Climate Jobs Campaign; secondly, let us demand that polluters pay their ecological and social debt; thirdly, we must say no to genetically modified organisms; fourthly, we must say no to more emissions from fossil fuels or nuclear radiation; fifthly, we must say no to racism in the state entities under this department; sixtly, we must say no to the continued exploitation of our people who have claimed back their land in protected areas in Dwesa-Cwebe, in the Richtersveld and in other parts of our country. Thank you.
Mr S P MABILO
Mr N P KHOZA
Mr S P MABILO: Deputy Speaker, first and foremost, as the ANC, we support the budgetary review and recommendation report. I must indicate that there was unanimity in the portfolio committee. We have indeed gone through it page by page, and there is support for it.
On service delivery and performance of the department, our committee is comfortable with the fact that the department has spent 99,9% of its budget. We also know positively that it has obtained clean, unqualified audit reports since 2010, when the department was realigned.
We also recognise the fact that this is a high performance- driven organisation that serves with integrity.
On recommendation, and in conclusion, our portfolio committee has expressed its appreciation for the performance of the department and all its entities. We also looked at the predetermined objectives, service delivery and governance and we are satisfied.
However, there is one concern. This legitimate concern is that the department did not have sufficient funds to carry out some of its programmes. We have the following recommendations. Firstly, that National Treasury should progressively increase budget allocations to the department in real terms; secondly, that the department should ensure that existing and future projects are appropriately closed off to avoid any future incidences of fruitless expenditure; thirdly, there needs to be a clear, multipronged strategy for sustainability in bringing down the growing number of rhino killings in our national parks, clearly outlining those low-hanging fruits and the interventions; fourthly, the department should provide a written response to Parliament on the number of convictions in the case of rhino poaching in this country. Lastly, there is a need to deepen the ownership of national parks in their neighbouring communities otherwise we are fighting a losing war against poaching and other illicit practices.
In conclusion, the Department of Environmental Affairs has demonstrated beyond reasonable doubt that it is a high- performing department that carries out its functions of protecting, conserving and improving South Africa’s natural resources efficiently, effectively and diligently.
As the ANC, we support this report. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
THIRTY-FIFTH ORDER/Mrs D ROBINSON
THIRTY-FOURTH ORDER/ Mr S P MABILO
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY – DEPARTMENT OF WOMEN IN THE PRESIDENCY
There was no debate.
Mr B A RADEBE: Deputy Speaker. I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Mrs D ROBINSON: Deputy Speaker, while the DA supports the budgetary review and recommendation report, and the concerns we raised have been noted, we do wish to point out that subsequently there have been some matters regarding the performance, accountability and delivery in the Ministry that concern us and which this House should be made aware of.
The purpose of the Ministry is to elevate women’s issues and interests; lead, co-ordinate and oversee the transformation agenda on women’s rights, equality and socioeconomic empowerment. One of the critical areas of weakness concerned standards on ethics, fraud and internal audit and risk. Many questions have been posed about performance. Answers have been promised, including a status report on the National Council of Gender-based Violence. Answers have been promised for the second quarter briefing; however, the second quarter briefing was not presented on time despite frequent reminders. To crown it all, the Minister for Women herself did not appear, so the officials were sent back unheard. I suggest that this might be wasteful expenditure. We are concerned that the Minister for Women does not appear to think that she should be held accountable and she is also not present today.
There appears to be no direction in this Ministry. The appalling status of many women, where patriarchal attitudes, domestic violence and human rights abuses abound, is that they have no champion. What is the purpose of the Ministry? Instead, weak excuses abound about the transition being in transition. Sadly, it appears that red lights are starting to flash for the third Minister for Women and her department. Women of South Africa deserve better. [Applause.]
Ms M S KHAWULA
Mrs D ROBINSON
IsiZulu:
Nks M S KHAWULA: Sekela Sihlalo, yikho kona lokho ukuthi asisivumi lesi sabelomali. Inkinga eyenza ukuthi singasivumi lesi sabelomali ukuthi abantu baseNingizimu Afrika besifazane abakayiboni le nto okuthiwa yinkululeko ngoba basahlukunyezwa abakhwenyana babo ngezindlela eziningi ezahlukene. Sihlalo, ngicela ukuthi usikhuzele.
English:
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, please do not disturb the speaker.
English:
Nks M S KHAWULA: Please ...
IsiZulu:
... asizile ukuzodlala la. Uma bangaqedanga ukudlala emakhaya nasezikoleni, mabayeke.
English:
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, okay; it is okay.
IsiZulu:
Nks M S KHAWULA: Ikakhulukazi emhlabeni wonke, isithunzi somuntu wesifazane asikahlonishwa. Angiphathi-ke uma kuthiwa ushonelwe ngumkhwenyana, ushadile noma uggqile la egcekeni. Uma enqabe nje ukungenwe, sekufuneka ahambe ngoba kuthiwa uzozala amavezandlebe. Buka nje uhlazo olungaka, usuzongenwa yindoda enye, usuzoyinqunela. [Uhleko.] Akubhekwa ngisho izingane. Kukhona Izinto ebekade zenzeka kuqala kodwa manje okungasafanele sizivume. Njengoba sikhona manje kumele sizilwele ukuthi asisakwazi ukuzenza.
Nale nto-ke, angilwi nkosi yami nobuholi bendabuko, kodwa kukhona imithetho ebishaywa kuqala uma uyibheka manje ayisafanele. Le nto yokuthi uma ngabe ngigane inkosi noma ingane yami igane inkosi, ilotshelelwa yisizwe, uma eselotsholelwe yisizwe bese kuba khona ukungezwani phakathi kwabo bobabili kuza izinduna kanye nawo wonke umuntu kuzoxoxwa izindaba zenu nezasemakamelweni. Lelo yihlazo.
Enye yindaba yesithembu. Isithembu siyamhlukumeza umuntu wesifazane ngoba wena obukade ukhona la kusho ukuthi uzofa. [Ubuwelewele.] Le nto ngempela uma ungumuntu wesifazane – ngiyabezwa nje bekhuluma abantu besifazane abakule Ndlu. Kuningi ukucindezeleka esiphezu kwako. Okunye okwenziwa nguhulumeni kaKhongolose ozibiza ngentando yeningi, abantu besifazane ubathola bebelethe izingane emhlane behamba bayodayisa. Abantu besifazane la eNingizimu Afrika ubathola bethwele izinkuni emakhanda belengisa amabhakede, bebelethe izingane bayopheka. Nasekhaya nguye okudingeka ukuthi acabange.
Abawatholi namalungelo okuthi banikezwe amathuba emisebenzi. Okubuhlungu kunakho konnke – ungangivali Sihlalo ... [Ubuwelewele.]
USEKELA SIHLALO: Sesiyaphela isikhathi, sengiyakubiza ... [Ubuwelewele.]
English:
Wait, hon member! Hon Mbatha, this is the second time that you behave like that. You will regret it.
IsiZulu:
Nks M S KHAWULA: Siyacela nkosi yami kuNgqongqoshe weZabesimame ukuthi asisize ngempela. Ayikho into ebehlungu njengokuthi inkosikazi iphume egcekeni layo, ihambe. [Ubuwelewele.]
USEKELA SIHLALO: Sesiphelile isikhathi.
Nks M S KHAWULA: Okwesibili sengigcina ...
USEKELA SIHLALO: Qha. Kunesikhathi, imizuzu emithathu, asikho esinye esandiselwe. Ngiyabonga.
Nks M S KHAWULA: Asivalwe isithembu.
English:
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Khawula, please take your seat.
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE
Ms M S KHAWULA
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Hon Deputy Speaker, having abandoned the hopeless Department of Women, Children and People with Disabilities, many were hopeful that the new Department of Women in the Presidency would finally start doing some work, but half a year later that optimism is fading. The department is still to start functioning, the transition has been slow, and we have not seen any progress or any concrete plans. Apart from it being a department in sluggish transition, challenges in terms of financial performance, human resources and governance remain.
While the IFP decried the lack of funding of the former department, we also decried the manner it which it was spent. Time and time again we pleaded with Minister Lulu Xingwana to reduce spending on her overseas trips, especially to New York and other attractive shopping destinations.
The IFP has been vindicated because the failures of Lulu Xingwana now loom large. Treasury has recommended that the irregular expenditure incurred for her countless overseas trips should be recovered from the small budget this new department will receive. What a failure. It has now been left up to the IFP’s representative from Scopa to ensure that this is not the case.
Moreover, the IFP is concerned with the fact that government has abandoned the National Council Against Gender-based Violence. The Council received no funding, and it now remains in limbo. At the time of its launch, the IFP warned that without powers of implementation and resources, this council may become yet another talkshop. Yet again we have been vindicated.
Hon Speaker, violence against women and children is the most appalling human rights violation and perhaps the most pervasive in our country. Incidences of violence have continued to increase in 2013 and 2014, signalling that the measures to protect women and children are not effective. Hon Speaker, we will support this BRR report, but reality is that again this department will be critically underfunded, which questions whether there is any real political will to empower women and end gender-based violence. I thank you.
Ms P BHENGU
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE
Ms P BHENGU: Hon Speaker, firstly the ANC supports the BRR report. The committee was also briefed, and deliberated on the quarterly report for 2013-14 and the first-quarter reports for 2014-15. Having met with the department to scrutinise the annual report for 2014-15, the committee made the following observations: Notwithstanding that the structure and the layout of the 2013-14 annual reports continue to improve as compared to previous reports, the committee noted several observations pertaining to the transitional arrangement of the department that relate to the mandate, mission, vision and scope of the department.
The committee observed that the mandate, mission and vision of the department in the annual report of 2013-14 reflects the programme pertaining to children and people with disabilities but, subsequently, the Department of Women in the Presidency was established. Notwithstanding this, the committee acknowledged the transfer of responsibilities and functions to the Department of Social Development. The committee was also concerned about how the Department of Women would ensure that all initiatives would continue in these programmes and that corrective action would be implemented as recommended where necessary.
The committee was further concerned about the broadening scope of the department, as reported by the director-general, as far as focusing on all policies and laws that relate to the socioeconomic empowerment of women are concerned, whereas before the focus was more, in terms of the Department of Trade and Industry, on the economic empowerment of women. As a committee, we have made the following recommendation, namely that the department should provide progress reports on all transitional matters related to programmes three and four; provide a status report on all changes implemented as a result of the transfer of functions or programmes to the Department of Social Development and that the committee reinforce the importance of giving effect to all the recommendations cited by the Auditor-General for the department; for the department to submit quarterly reports in line with the National Treasury regulations; and, for the director-general to assess what state organs are spending on what has been outlined in their respective strategic plans and for them to submit their quarterly reports.
IsiZulu:
Mhlawumbe Somlomo sikhumbuze le Ndlu ukuthi uMnyango Wezabesifazane obekwe ehhovisini likaMongameli owawo umsebenzi ukulandelela ukuthi yonke iminyango kahulumeni inazo yini izinhlelo zokushintsha izimpilo zabesifazane. Ngakho-ke, ukusukela manje lo mnyango uzimisele ukubiza yonke iminyango ukuthola ukuthi yiziphi izinhlelo bese sisizana nale minyango ukuthi kufezeke lokho okushowo ngumbutho wesizwe, uKhongolose, ukuthi kuqedwe inhlupheko, ukungalingani ngokobulili kanye nokwanda kwamathuba emisebenzi, ukulwa nokuhlukumezwa kwabesifazane nabantwana.
English:
As the ANC, we support the report. I thank you. [Applause.]
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
THIRTY-SIXTH ORDER/ Mr M WATERS
THIRTY-FIFTH ORDER/ Ms P BHENGU
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON ARTS AND CULTURE - PERFORMANCE OF DEPARTMENT OF ARTS AND CULTURE FOR 2013-14 FINANCIAL YEAR
There was no debate.
Mr M U KALAKO: Hon Deputy Speaker, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Mr M WATERS: Hon Chair, the Department of Arts and Culture is best suited to facilitate nation-building and social cohesion. The DA acknowledges that this department has a new Minister and this in itself provides the Minister with a number of challenges within the sector and within its entities. In the sector there was a regression in terms of delivering on the mandate from 98% to 94% on the output of delivery.
Despite the use of consultants at the huge cost of R5 000 per day, this exorbitant expenditure on consultants has prompted Treasury to issue an instruction to develop consulting reduction plans. It is not clear whether the process has started and whether this has been taken seriously because there is a history of not taking Treasury recommendations seriously.
The second challenge that the Minister has to address is cadre deployment within its entities. Such is the case with the Pan South African Language Board, PanSALB. This entity poses the biggest threat to our national language diversity due to its inability to deliver effectively on its mandate. A case in point is the use of the Official Languages Act 12 of 2012, an extension of six months has been granted to the full implementation of the Act. The failure to implement the promulgated Act indicates a disregard for the Acts of Parliament and government Ministers are the key culprits, because they need to ensure that their departments comply.
The third challenge is to effectively monitor entities holistically and not to solely focus on nonperformance. Additionally, the department should demand stringent fiscal control within entities to curb corruption as this will erase the gains we have made to move this country forward. Despite these challenges, hon Chair, the DA is in support of this report. I thank you.
Ms A MATSHOBENI
Mr M WATERS
Ms A MATSHOBENI: Deputy Speaker, the EFF rejects the Budgetary Review and Recommendation, BRR, report. Let me first say that I think there was no proper handover by the previous Minister to the current one, because scary things happened in that department. Let me say that this department needs a pathologist to do a postmortem. [Laughter.] [Interjections.] The reason I am saying this is because there is an institution called PanSALB. How is it that the person who is the manager of the institution is also a worker’s representative, the union? [Interjections.] Okay, do not say “hoo”, because always you say you have a story to tell. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, please give the member a chance. Hon member, address the Chair.
Ms A MATSHOBENI: Okay. The Department of Arts and Culture and its entities spent over R220 million that was fruitless and wasteful. Furthermore, we note that the Department of Arts and Culture received a qualified audit opinion from the Auditor-General. It is also discouraging that this department received a qualified audit opinion despite the department having a fully-fledged monitoring and evaluation chief directorate. The Minister should ensure that staff members involved in these irregularities are disciplined and taxpayers’ money is recovered.
The department has not had a chief financial officer for the past six years and has been unable to provide leadership on good governance to its entities and yet the ruling party in this room continues to say, “we have a good story to tell”. [Interjections.] The bottom line, Deputy Speaker, is that this department is facing a serious problem. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN
Ms A MATSHOBENI
Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Chair, the IFP notes with concern the rising tendency on this government to only recognise individuals in Arts and Culture with certain political affiliations. This does little to promote nation-building and we call upon this department going forward to recognise the contributions of all South Africans to arts and culture, irrespective of political affiliation.
I speak here specifically about the National Heritage Council and their choosing of the relevant liberation sites. We hope that all those who contributed to the struggle for liberation in South Africa will be considered equally. We then applaud the recent opening and handing over ceremony of the multimillion library to the Fetakgomo community in the Sekhukhune District. This follows closely on the successful handing over of the Shilubane and Saselamani Libraries. These public libraries were built and maintained by the Department of Arts, as well as the department of arts and culture in Limpopo and were also provided with ICT infrastructure to enable free access to the Internet.
Hon Speaker, public libraries must be seen as one of the key service delivery departmental outputs as they play an important role in the promotion of a sustainable reading culture and they also provide access to information and knowledge to communities. We encourage this type of project in all provinces. The IFP supports this report. Thank you.
Ms X S TOM
Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN
IsiXhosa:
Ms X S TOM: Ndiyabulela kakhulu, Sekela Somlomo. UKhongolose uyayixhasa le ngxelo esitsho kananjalo ukuba ekomitini kuthiwe thaca le ngxelo lisebe saze sabetha ngasingqi sinye sicinga ngelo xesha ke ukuba abakho ooxam abaya kuphaxulana kwaye abakho oorhoqotyeni abaza kuxhentsa bezibuka.
Xa sijonge ukubaluleka nokuba sembindini kweli sebe kwimpilo yabantu siyayigxininisa into yokuba isebe maliziphonononge lona kuqala. Le nto siyithetha singamalungu ekomiti sisonke. Isebe malijonge indlela elisebenza ngayo ukuze amashishini karhulmente aphantsi kolawulo lwalo akwazi ukuzeka emzekweni.
Ukuba lona isebe lifumana ingxelo yophicotho zincwadi e-qualified, namashishini karhulumente aphantsi kolawulo lwayo aza kwenza njalo. Silibonisile isebe indlela emalisebenzisane ngayo kuba sizimisile siyikomiti ukuba apha asizanga kugxeka kuphela, koko size kuncedisana nesebe ukuba lenze umsebenzi walo ngendlela efanelekileyo.
Singamalungu ala komiti, sigxininisa ukuba uPanSalb sifanele ukumjonga ngeliso likantsho ...
IsiZulu:
Nk M S KHAWULA: Sihlalo, ngenkulu inhlonipho, Ngiyabonga.
English:
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, please take your seat hon member.
IsiZulu:
Nk M S KHAWULA: Kukhona into enzima kabi la. Uma kuqhamuka amagama anzima ngapha kuthiwa umuntu makawahoxise, kodwa uma eqhamuka ngaphesheya awahoxiswa. Ake kuchazwe ngohoxetsheni ukuthi lisho ukuthini lelo gama? Ngubani onguhoxetsheni lana? Ngiyabonga. [Ubuwelewele.]
English:
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Go ahead, hon member.
IsiXhosa:
Ms X S TOM: IsiXhosa asitolikwa. Ngenxa yokubaluleka kukaPanSALB, siyikomiti simjonge ngeliso likantsho, kangangokuba siyikomiti sesimndwendwele kwaye siza kumndwendwela okwesibini ukubonisa ukuyixabisa kwethu ...
English:
Mr P A MOTEKA: Deputy Speaker, the hon Khawula just asked that she must withdraw that insult, because we cannot allow it that when the opposition is insulted, you allow it. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, let me get a translation for that and we will respond to you. Go ahead, hon member.
IsiXhosa:
Nkosi Z M D MANDELA: IsiXhosa asitolikwa.
IsiXhosa:
Ms X S TOM: Ndiyabulela, Sekela Somlomo. Siyalibonisa kakuhle into yokuba ukuba i-CFO (iGosa eliyiNtloko yeziMali) mayibe ayiqeshwanga ixesha elide kangaka lo nto inegalelo kwiziphumo zesebe. Siyasebenzisana kakhulu ekomitini. Siyazixoxa izinto esifanele ukuba sizixoxe kwaye siyazenza izindululo esifanele ukuzenza. Isebe liyazilandela izindululo esizenzayo, yiyo loo nto siyixhasa le ngxelo ithiwa thaca phambi kwale Ndlu. IsiXhosa asitolikwa. [Uwelewele.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, I now put the question. Those in favour will say “aye”. Those against, “no”.
Mr P A MOTEKA: Deputy Speaker, the hon member over there just called another hon member a lizard. Hoxetsheni is a lizard. [Interjections.] So, we cannot allow it ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I said I was going to get a translation ...
Mr P A MOTEKA: ... she is not a reptile. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No. Hon member, don’t do that. I will get a translation and get back to you. Hon members you are out of order. The institution has a translator; I did not ask you to offer me one. I would have asked you to do that.
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
THIRTY-SEVENTH ORDER/ Ms L L VAN DER MERWE
THIRTY-SIXTH ORDER/Ms X S TOM
CONSIDERATION OF BUDGETARY REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT - PERFORMANCE OF DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT AND ENTITIES FOR 2013/14 FINANCIAL YEAR
Mr M U KALAKO: Deputy Speaker, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Deputy Speaker, in the absence of a robust economy, the Department of Social Development certainly excels in extending the welfare state, but many challenges remain. South Africa has a critical shortage of social workers. Our failure to address this shortage continues negatively to impact on the lives of the most vulnerable sectors of our society.
The IFP is also concerned that the command centre for gender-based violence, which was launched by this department in March 2014, duplicates existing helplines that are already in place. Furthermore, the command centre comes at the expense of organisations such as nongovernmental organisations, NGOs. The IFP continues to maintain that the government is failing many NGOs that provide vital services on the state’s behalf, even statutory services, and then turns a blind eye to their funding plight.
Much is said about how serious the challenge of gender-based violence in South Africa is, but these statements are not translated into the rands and cents needed for the fight against this scourge. During the budget review process the IFP also called for an increase in funding for the National Development Agency. While Nkandla cost the taxpayer over R200 million, this agency receives less to roll out early childhood development services, amongst others. This is wholly inadequate.
The Central Drug Authority also seems hapless in the execution of its duties. It lacks accurate and comprehensive data on substance abuse and addiction, which begs the question whether they are equipped to fight the drug abuse scourge in South Africa. These are some of our ongoing concerns that must be addressed if this department is committed to delivering on its entire mandate. That being said, we will support this BRR report. Thank you.
Ms N P SONTI
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE
IsiXhosa:
Nksk N P SONTI: Ndiyabulela, Sekela Somlomo.
English:
The EFF is of the view that social development should be linked to proper developmental outcomes. The current social welfare system, particularly social grants, just worsens the poverty of social grant recipients. We believe that social grants should be increased by a meaningful percentage immediately to accommodate and improve the living conditions of the people.
Furthermore, it is our view that the state must build its own capacity to distribute the social grants rather than rely on the corrupt tender system, which profits from the poor. South Africans who are fortunate enough to find employment are one salary away from poverty and those that don’t work have no social security whatsoever. Radical social transformation of society is required. First, give the people the ability to participate in the economy.
Ms R N CAPA
Ms N P SONTI
Ms R N CAPA: Deputy Speaker, I rise on behalf of the ANC to say that we actually agree with the good report that has been presented to the portfolio committee. But, I do want to say to the hon Van der Merve that I’m disappointed that you come and pretend that you were not answered about what you just raised here. I remember fairly well the hon Minister addressing you alone, taking all the time to explain why social workers are not yet employed. We all agreed that the report was adopted in a due, legal process. I can tell you no one objected to it.
Let me come to the hon member of the EFF, who has continuously raised the issue. Hon member, I’m responding to a concern that you raised not once. You said that you wanted the grant to be increased, but I want to say to you, we can’t increase grants; all we want to do is to do what you say you stand for, engage in economic development, allowing people to lift themselves out of poverty and not to be dependent. [Applause.]
Secondly, I also want to say the department has continuously been getting an unqualified audit opinion ...
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Capa ohloniphekile, bheka mina ngedwa. Khawubheke mina ngendwa.
IsiZulu:
Nk R N CAPA: Ngiyabonga. Makhe ngibheke wena wedwa. Ngifuna ukuthi ke empeleni isebe leli lisebenze kahle saze savumelana sonke ukuthi lisebenze kahle. Okokugcina le ndaba ekhulunywayo yokuntshontshwa kokudla kwabantwana [child support grant] kutshontshwa abantu abadala.
English:
... stealing from the have nots and also stealing from the poor. I stand here in pain, Deputy Speaker. The hon members of the EFF must talk to their beloved neighbours, the DA. There is a case where a DA councillor in the Western Cape was arrested and charged for defrauding Social Development out of funds intended for a disabled person. [Interjections.] What a shame! Thank you very much. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Motion agreed to (Economic Freedom Fighters dissenting).
Report accordingly adopted.
NOTICES OF MOTION/ Ms M F NKADIMENG
THIRTY-SEVENTH ORDER/Ms R N CAPA
NOTICES OF MOTION
Ms M F NKADIMENG: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates the need to develop national policy norms and standards on the uniform entrance requirements for initial teacher education programmes at all institutions of higher learning.
Mr K P SITHOLE
Ms M F NKADIMENG
Mr K P SITHOLE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House debates the current poor state of toilets and sanitation facilities at our schools, the latest incident of which saw a girl of 16 years of age falling into a pit toilet and suffering as a result thereof, not only potential health problems, but also trauma from the event.
Mr K J MILEHAM
Mr K P SITHOLE
Mr K J MILEHAM: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House—
- notes that on 17 June 2014, the North Gauteng High Court restrained and interdicted the Provincial Executive Council of Limpopo, the Limpopo MEC for Co-operative Governance, Human Settlements and Traditional Affairs and a Mr D H Makobe, placing the Mogalakwena Local Municipality in Limpopo under administration;
- further notes that the national Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, Minister Pravin Gordhan, was listed as the third respondent to the application;
- further notes that the court remarked that there appears to be a substance to the applicant’s assertion that the decision to use section 139(1)(b) of the Constitution was made and I quote, ‘Under attack and with ulterior motive and in bad faith’;
- notes that Minister Gordhan, in a ministerial reply in this House on 4 November 2014 stated that the municipality is under investigation in terms of section 139(1)(b), but that the and I quote,
‘Intervention is incomplete because it has been obstructed in particular by the Municipal Manager, a Mr Kekana, who has not allowed the administrator that the Minister has deployed to gain entry into the municipal offices’;
- thus notes that Minister Pravin Gordhan deliberately misled the House during a ministerial reply to member’s statements on the status of the Mogalakwena Local Municipality; and
- resolves that the issue be referred to the Powers, Privileges and Immunities Committee to investigate whether Minister Gordhan deliberately misled Parliament regarding the status of the Mogalakwena Local Municipality.
Ms C N NDABA
Mr K J MILEHAM
Ms C N NDABA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates the importance of ensuring that appropriately qualified and adequately skilled managers are appointed in all health facilities.
Mr M HLENGWA
Ms C N NDABA
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House debates the need for meaningful education for economic liberation.
Dr M J CARDO
Mr M HLENGWA
Dr M J CARDO: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House, noting the remarks last week of Deputy Chief Justice Dikgang Moseneke, on, and I quote, ‘the remarkable concentration of the President’s powers of appointment’, undertakes to—
- debate the President’s discretionary powers of appointment to and removal from public office;
- consider how best we may shield the appointments of public functionaries to institutions like the National Prosecuting Authority and the Chapter 9 institutions from the personal preferences and vagaries of the appointing authority; and
- refer the matter of the President’s discretionary powers to the Constitutional Review Committee for further consideration.
[Applause.]
Prof N M KHUBISA
Dr M J CARDO
Prof N M KHUBISA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the NFP:
That the Housedeliberates the negative effects of corporal punishment in schools.
Ms K LITCHFIELD-TSHABALALA
Prof N M KHUBISA
Ms K LITCHFIELD-TSHABALALA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:
That the House debates the conditions of the families of the mineworkers who were massacred in Marikana and the role the state can play in providing for their adequate welfare.
Mr L P KHOARAI
Ms K LITCHFIELD-TSHABALALA
Mr L P KHOARAI: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the Housedebates the commitment by the Minister of Human Settlements to deliver 1,5 million houses by the end of this current administration.
Mr E K SIWELA
Mr L P KHOARAI
Mr E K SIWELA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates measures to step up security to protect both the university and technical and vocational education and training students and lecturers against violent crimes.
Mr B A RADEBE
Mr E K SIWELA
SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL TEAMS VICTORIOUS DURING PAST WEEKEND
(Draft Resolution)
Mr B A RADEBE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House—
- notes that it was a satisfying weekend for South African sports with Bafana Bafana, the Springboks and the Proteas winning their matches;
- recalls that the successful weekend began with Bafana Bafana beating Sudan 2-1 at the Moses Mabhida Stadium on Saturday, booking a spot in the 2015 Africa Cup of Nations;
- further recalls that Saturday also saw the Springboks beat England 31-28 at Twickenham to register their 12th straight test win over their rivals;
- further recognises that on Sunday the Proteas leveled the five–match one-day international, ODI, series against Australia through a three-wicket victory in the second ODI in Perth; and
- congratulates Bafana Bafana, Amabhokobhoko and the Proteas, the whole bunch of winners, on their sterling performance and for making South Africa proud.
[Applause.]
Agreed to.
Ms A MATSHOBENI
Mr B A RADEBE
JOHANNESBURG TAXI STRIKE
(Draft Resolution)
Ms A MATSHOBENI: Hon Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House—
- notes that yesterday the Johannesburg mass taxi strike began against e-tolls and the failure of the government to provide permits for taxi operators;
- further notes that the taxi strike left thousands of Gauteng commuters stranded, without transport;
- acknowledges that striking taxi operators are demanding a dedicated lane similar to that of the Bus Rapid Transit, BRT, system;
- further acknowledges that several Rea Vaya routes were affected;
- recognises that the organised taxi strike is against e-tolls and the failure of government to provide permits for taxi operators, while the taxi operators claimed that they received phone calls, and invoices, threatening legal action if they did not pay e-tolls despite the government’s commitment to exempt them from paying;
- recalls that despite the assurance by the MEC for Roads and Transport in Gauteng, matriculants tweeted yesterday morning that they were stranded;
- further recognises that taxi operators blocked parts of the N12 East and M1 North highways near the Southgate Shopping Centre this morning, leaving thousands of motorists stranded;
- believes that taxis resumed operations today on condition that the government responds to their demands within the given period;
- further believes that e-tolls are widely opposed by motorists in Gauteng;
- recommends that the Department of Transport in Gauteng speedily awards taxi permits and that Sanral scraps the unpopular e-tolls;
- condemns the alleged abuse by police for using charges to intimidate collective action by organised taxi operators; and
- reaffirms the constitutional right to protest without intimidation.
[Applause.]
Agreed to.
Mr P G MOTEKA
Ms A MATSHOBENI
BEGINNING OF RACIST FESTIVAL IN THE CENTRAL CITY OF GOUDA, THE NETHERLANDS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr P G MOTEKA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House—
- notes that last Saturday was the beginning of a racist festival in the central city of Gouda in the Netherlands, south of Holland, which is a re-enactment of the arrival of Saint Nicholas, bringing presents for children, assisted by his helper, Black Pete, who is invariably played by a white person with a blackened face;
- further notes that police arrested 90 protesters against this racist black face, or Black Pete, following a clash at a traditional Dutch festival;
- further condemns the utterance by Prime Minister Mark Rutte, who is quoted as saying everyone can talk about Black Pete’s colour, but you cannot disturb a children’s party like that, as part of commanding blacks how to react to racism;
- commends the hundreds of protesters who protested against the Dutch racist ritual; and
- further condemns the arrest of protesters and the reinforcement of white racist stereotypes about black people.
Agreed to.
Ms D R TSOTETSI
Mr P G MOTEKA
DAVID TLALE RECEIVES FASHION DESIGNER OF THE YEAR AWARD FROM APPLAUSE MAGAZINE
(Draft Resolution)
Ms D R TSOTESI: Hon Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House—
- notes that internationally acclaimed South African designer David Tlale received the Fashion Designer of the Year Award from Applause Magazine on Saturday, 15 November 2014, in the Lincoln Centre’s Gerald W Lynch Theatre at John Jay College in New York;
- further notes that the award was previously bestowed on Angelique Kidjo, Les Nubians and Liya Kebede, to honour top performing Africans who are making their mark on the world stage;
- recalls that Tlale received yet another honour, the African Icon of Hope Award, during the African Fashion and Design Week in Nigeria;
- believes that these awards validate his hard work and take his brand to new heights;
- further believes that he is an inspiration to upcoming young South African designers; and
- congratulates David Tlale on the awards as well as on flying the South African flag high.
Agreed to.
Mr M U KALAKO
Ms D R TSOTETSI
CONDOLENCES ON DR MARIUS BARNARD PASSING AWAY ON 14 NOVEMBER 2014
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M U KALAKO: Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House—
- notes that on Friday, 14 November 2014, renowned heart surgeon Marius Barnard, brother of the late famous Christiaan Barnard, died at his Cape Town home following a long battle with prostate cancer;
- further notes that Marius helped his brother, Christiaan Barnard, to perform the world’s first heart transplant, cementing his place in medical history;
- acknowledges that he left his career as a general physician in Zimbabwe and in 1966 joined the department of cardiothoracic surgery in Cape Town, where he went on to become a member of the first heart transplant team;
- further acknowledges that he received a litany of awards for his contributions to medicine around the world; and
- conveys its condolences to his wife, son and two daughters.
Agreed to.
Ms N R MASHABELA
Mr M U KALAKO
SA POSTAL SERVICES WORKERS ON INDUSTRIAL ACTION FOR FOUR MONTHS
(Draft Resolution)
Ms N R MASHABELA: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House-
- notes that Post Office workers have been on strike for four months, calling for an end to casual work and an 8% salary increase;
- further notes that the industrial action affects mostly the poor, who rely on the services of the SA Postal Services;
- acknowledges that the demands by workers for a living wage is a legitimate demand, including the end to casual employment;
- further acknowledges the net loss of R172,6 million and the decline in state subsidy; and
- encourages the end to temporary workers with immediate effect, an increase in salaries and the employment of full-time employees.
Agreed to.
Ms T STANDER
Ms N R MASHABELA
UNPRECEDENTED VIOLATION OF PARLIAMENTARY CHAMBER BY RIOT POLICE
(Draft Resolution)
Ms T STANDER: Deputy Speaker, I hereby move without notice:
That the House-
- notes the unprecedented violation of this parliamentary Chamber by members of the riot police on Thursday, 13 November 2014;
- also notes that the last time police were allowed into a sitting of Parliament was when Verwoerd was assassinated over 50 years ago, with the exception of the other unacceptable entry of 21 August;
- further notes that a number of opposition members were injured in the ensuing violence;
- resolves that police must never ever be allowed into a sitting of this House again;
- further resolves to take strong action against all those who were in any way responsible for the decision to have riot police waiting outside the Chamber, along with those who gave the order for them to enter the Chamber; and
- concludes that the events of that night are a dark stain on our democracy and represent a completely unacceptable breach of the fundamental tenets of our parliamentary democracy;
[Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES – CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Deputy Speaker, just on a point of order: I know you have to put the motion, but what she is asking for is the amendment of the Powers, Privileges and Immunities Act. So, she should be rephrasing her resolution if she wants that. [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Hon Deputy Speaker, first of all, it is not “she” but an hon member of the House. Secondly, there are parliamentary procedures that have to be followed before the police are called into the Chamber. I think it is those that are addressed there, that presiding officers should not resort to that. There is no requirement to change any Act or legislation; it is the practices of this Parliament. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, if there are no objections, I put the motion.
Mr B A RADEBE: Hon Deputy Speaker, we object to that motion.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: There is an objection, therefore the motion becomes notice of a motion.
Prof N M KHUBISA
Mr B A RADEBE
NONTSINDISO TSHAZI-KUNENE BECOMES FIRST FEMALE TUG MASTER AND MARINE PILOT
(Draft Resolution)
Prof N M KHUBISA: I move without notice:
That the House-
- notes that Nontsindiso Tshazi-Kunene, head of Search and Rescue at the SA Maritime Safety Authority, has made history by becoming the first female tug master and marine pilot;
- further notes that through her determination and hard work, Nontsindiso has occupied various critical positions, like that of harbour master in East London, which she occupied in 2003, and in 2009 she became the Head of the Maritime Rescue Co-ordination Centre, which provides assistance and relief to distressed vessels at sea;
- recalls that she did her Grade 12 at Sidelile High School in Magabheni township in KwaZulu-Natal and later completed her studies as a tug master and marine pilot in the Netherlands after graduating in maritime studies at the Durban University of Technology in KwaZulu-Natal, whereafter she secured the job of first female tug master and pilot in Richards Bay;
- commends Transnet for offering her the first bursary, which opened up many opportunities for her and other women of our country; and
- congratulates her and wishes her all the best in her career as she is indeed a role model and trendsetter.
[Applause.]
Agreed to.
Mr N C MNCWABE
Prof N M KHUBISA
ACCLAIMED SOUTH AFRICAN ACTRESS BUBU MAZIBUKO INCLUDED IN EMMY AWARDS PANEL
(Draft Resolution)
Mr N C MNCWABE: I move without notice:
That the House-
- notes that acclaimed South African actress Bubu Mazibuko has been honoured by being included in the international awards panel for the annual Emmy Awards;
- further notes that Bubu Mazibuko has been judging the SA Film and Television Awards for several years and in doing so has earned international respect for her insight into the film and television industry; and
- congratulates Bubu Mazibuko on the honour bestowed upon her and wishes her well for the challenge ahead.
[Applause.]
Agreed to.
Ms S J NKOMO
Mr N C MNCWABE
COMMEMORATION OF 154 YEARS OF CONTRIBUTION BY INDIAN PEOPLE TO SOCIOECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT AND CULTURAL DIVERSITY IN SOUTH AFRICA
(Draft Resolution)
Ms S J NKOMO: Hon Deputy Speaker, I hereby move without notice:
That the House-
- recognises that 16 November was the commemoration of 154 years since the arrival of the Indian community in South Africa, who first arrived in South Africa in November 1860;
- acknowledges the hardships, spirit and courage of Indian forefathers and mothers who travelled to a new land, South Africa, and the many challenges they had to overcome;
- further recognises the great contribution that the Indian community has made to our socioeconomic development and cultural diversity; and
- applauds their tireless efforts at integrated social cohesion and nation-building under the flag of a united South Africa.
Agreed to.
Mr M S SESHOKA
Ms S J NKOMO
SOUTH AFRICAN BOXER ALI FUNEKA WINS INTERNATIONAL BOXING ORGANISATION WELTERWEIGHT TITLE
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M S SESHOKA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby move without notice:
That the House-
- notes that South African boxer Ali Funeka beat Roman Balaev on Saturday, 15 November, to win the International Boxing Organisation, IBO, Welterweight title;
- further notes that this was Funeka’s second title victory in five months since winning the SA Welterweight title in June;
- acknowledges that Funeka is a former World Boxing Federation, WBF, and World Boxing Council, WBC, junior welterweight champion;
- recognises that his recent victories in the ring are an affirmation of his boxing prowess; and
- wishes him well for his future defence of the IBO Welterweight title.
Agreed to.
Mr R W T CHANCE
Mr M S SESHOKA
ORGANISERS OF THE SOWETO ARTS AND CRAFTS FAIR RECEIVE A NOT-FOR-PROFIT ORGANISATION REGISTRATION NUMBER
(Draft Resolution)
Mr R W T CHANCE: Deputy Speaker, I hereby move without notice:
That the House-
- notes that the organisers of the Soweto Arts and Crafts Fair, a monthly event staged in the forecourt of the Soweto Theatre in Jabulani, recently received their registration number as a not-for-profit organisation, so qualifying them to apply for grant and lottery funding;
- further notes that through the fair the organisers provide an opportunity for up to 50 crafters from Soweto and surrounding areas to sell their wares to the visiting public;
- acknowledges that the fair entertains visitors with a full music programme presented by local artists and bands, and represents the best of the best of initiative to create jobs, serves the local community and generates tourism to Soweto;
- conveys its message of support to the fair organisers; and
- calls on members to support the fair by visiting it when they get the chance and happen to be in Johannesburg on the first Saturday of every month.
Agreed to.
Ms N C MAJEKE
Mr R W T CHANCE
BURGLARY AND VANDALISM AT JOE SLOVO HIGH SCHOOL IN KUYASA, KHAYELITSHA
(Draft Resolution)
Ms N C MAJEKE: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House-
- notes that Joe Slovo High School, situated in Kuyasa, Khayelitsha, has again experienced burglary and vandalism over the weekend and the damage is estimated to be in the range of R40 000;
- further notes that the school principal has confirmed that in the past two weeks the school had been vandalised five times, after the Western Cape education department spent about R1 million at the beginning of the year on repairs to vandalism that took place last year, 2013; and
- condemns burglary and vandalism that take place in our schools, especially at this time of the year, when learners are writing their final examinations.
Agreed to.
Mr N S MATIASE
Ms C N MAJEKE
STATE OF RACIST VIOLENCE IN SOUTH AFRICA
(Draft Resolution)
Mr N S MATIASE: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House -
(1) debates the state of racist violence in South Africa, particularly in the Western Cape and the North West province, where a white racist group called Noord-Wes Plaaslike Veiligheid has emerged recently, wearing dark blue regalia, around the farms in the North West who have found refuge in structures and in alliance with the ruling party;
(2) acknowledges that some of these Afrikaner right-wingers are members of the ANC and each time raises ANC membership cards to justify why they should not be taken to law; and
(3) calls for the discussion of this matter of racism in its next sitting.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, both in the nature and the fact that we made a ruling last week, motions that have not been circulated should not be read in the House. So we can’t put it to the House. [Interjections.] The motion therefore cannot be put to the House.
Mr N SINGH
The DEPUTY SPEAKER
WORLD TOILET DAY, 19 NOVEMBER
(Draft Resolution)
Mr N SINGH: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House -
(1) recognises that tomorrow, 19 November, has been declared World Toilet Day by the UN, with the theme for this year being “Equality, Dignity and the Link between Gender-based Violence and Sanitation”;
(2) acknowledges that according to the UN 2,5 billion people do not yet have access to proper sanitation, including toilets or latrines;
- deplores the fact that children in South Africa die daily from preventable illnesses like diarrhoea, with access to clean water or inadequate sanitation being one of the main causes;
- urges government towards greater and more urgent impetus to eradicate the bucket toilet system from South Africa; and
- encourages communities towards greater health and sanitation practices.
Agreed to.
Ms B J DLOMO
Mr N SINGH
PLIGHT OF PEOPLE LIVING WITH DISABILITIES
(Draft Resolution)
Ms B J DLOMO: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House debates the plight of the people living with disabilities with regard to employment and participation in sport.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hon member. That is notice of a motion.
Mr S MOKGALAPA
Ms B J DLOMO
Return of REMAINS of South Africans who PASSED AWAY in Nigeria
(Draft Resolution)
Mr S MOKGALAPA: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House -
(1) notes that the bodies of 74 of the 85 victims who perished in the tragic collapse of the Synagogue Building of the Church Of All Nations in Lagos, Nigeria on 12 September 2014 were successfully returned home on Sunday, 16 November 2014;
(2) recalls that this is the highest number of South Africans who had died abroad since the dawn of democracy in 1994;
(3) acknowledges the work that the government and the team of forensic experts did to ensure the successful repatriation of the bodies;
(4) calls on government to ensure that the remaining 11 bodies are returned home without delay;
(5) further calls on government to ensure that the inquest currently underway in Nigeria is credible and speedily completed to ensure that those who are responsible for this tragedy are held to account and that the law takes its course; and
(6) conveys its message of condolence to the families of the deceased and hopes that this will bring closure as they bury their loved ones in dignity.
Agreed to.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER/ Ms D RAPHUTI
Mr S MOKGALAPA
MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, we are done with motions. We regret that we will not go the route of hon Singh. We will go to Member’s Statements. The next item on the Order Paper is Member’s Statements. Does any member of the ANC, wish to make a statement?
Ms D D RAPHUTI
MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE/The DEPUTY SPEAKER
SA GOVERNMENT COMMENDED FOR REPATRIATION OF REMAINS OF NIGERAIN TRAGEDY
(Member’s Statement)
Ms D RAPHUTHI (ANC): Deputy Speaker, good afternoon. The ANC commends the South African government under the leadership of President Jacob Zuma for its intervention into the repatriation of the remains of 74 of the 85 South Africans killed over two months ago in a church building which collapsed in Nigeria. The remains of the 74 of our people killed in the Nigerian building tragedy arrived in South Africa on Sunday morning, 16 November 2014.
Furthermore, the ANC acknowledges the agony, pain and unbearably traumatic experience over the delayed repatriation of the deceased and costs on their bereaved families and relatives as well as the South African nation. The ANC also appreciates the pivotal role played by the President’s special envoy and the Minister in the Presidency, hon Jeff Radebe, as well as the interministerial committee to bring to an end the delay that has spanned over two months.
The ANC extends its heartfelt condolences to all the families of the deceased and assures South Africans that their government would do everything possible to repatriate the remains of the remaining victims. I thank you. [Applause.]
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
Ms D RAPHUTHI
ARMED POLICE IN THE CHAMBER A BRUTAL ASSAULT ON OUR CONSTITUTION
(Member’s Statement)
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (DA): Deputy Speaker, in this House on 13 November 2014, a most brutal assault on our Constitution, our democracy and this Parliament took place. The deploying of armoured and armed police to suppress the opposition must be condemned in the strongest terms. Our constitutional democracy deserves better than this. And so, today’s establishment of a parliamentary leaders’ committee must in fact get to the bottom of the abuse of law and the violation of this House. Whoever is found to have ordered the police to enter this House must be sanctioned in the strongest terms. Never again, Deputy Speaker, must the SA Police Service enter this Chamber while it is in session. [Interjections.]
Democracy relies on uninhibited debate and robust politics in Parliament. It is the way that Parliament holds our executive to account and, in fact, police, armed police, should not interrupt that. I thank you. [Applause.]
Dr P MAESELA
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
NONCOMMUNICABLE DISEASES BECOMING SERIOUS THREAT TO OUR WELLBEING
(Member’s Statement)
Dr P MAESELA (ANC): Deputy Speaker, it is imperative that we counter the rise in and prevalence of chronic diseases like hypertension and diabetes. Noncommunicable diseases have become endemic and a serious threat to the wellbeing of the nation. Those are lifestyle diseases that are caused by the way we are influenced to live in this modern society, eating highly refined food, junk food, suffering from the couch potato syndrome, and getting little or no exercise. We need to make the screening of these diseases mandatory so that they can be detected early and remedial steps could be taken to curb or contain them.
These diseases like high blood pressure, cancer and diabetes are the highest causes of death after HIV and Aids and TB. Because of the chronic nature of these diseases, they will bankrupt the state if urgent steps are not taken to influence our lifestyle and what we eat, especially what we give our children to eat. We must strictly control what our children eat as this leads to obesity, and/or malnutrition if not controlled.
Physical exercise should be mandatory at schools and encouraged in our communities. We must address the social and economic determinants of ill health and also design and implement a mass mobilisation strategy focusing on health. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr A M MPONTSHANE
Dr P MAESELA
CONCERN OVER KWAZULU-NATAL GOVERNMENT’s SUSPENSION OF SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION DUE TO FINANCIAL DIFFICULTIES
(Member’s Statement)
Mr A M MPONTSHANE (IFP): Deputy Speaker, the IFP notes with great concern the recent decision by the department of education in KwaZulu-Natal to suspend the construction of new schools because of financial difficulties associated primarily with the nearly R1 billion overspend on this year’s budget. This is principally 87% of the departmental budget going towards personnel expenditure, which leaves very little for infrastructure development.
The suspension of building projects might provide temporary financial relief, but we argue that costs will begin to soar the longer these projects are delayed. There is also the distinct possibility of court action by contractors who are now prevented from continuing with their previously agreed upon building mandates.
We, therefore, call upon the department to do everything possible within its power to continue with the planned infrastructure projects and also to approach the National Treasury for that purpose. Thank you.
Mr M S MABIKA
Mr A M MPONTSHANE
KWAZULU-NATAL GOVERNMENT HALTS SCHOOLS RENOVATION PROGRAMMES BUT STILL SPLASHES OUT
(Member’s Statement)
Mr M S MABIKA (NFP): Deputy Speaker, the NFP has taken note with considerable alarm of the halting of various construction and renovation programmes at schools, as announced by the KwaZulu-Natal department of education recently. The KwaZulu-Natal education department has had to forfeit R800 million during the mid-term budget review process, and has decided to neutralise the shortfall by halting existing building and renovation programmes.
Yet, the KwaZulu-Natal department of education continues to splash out enormous amounts of unnecessary expenditure on full-page adverts that sing the praises of the MEC, and the hiring of huge, glittering white marquees with all the trimmings for sod-turning ceremonies, accompanied by lavish catering.
As the NFP, we believe that it is indefensible to be spending money on symbolic and empty gestures, aggrandising MECs and generally showing a lack of prioritisation. [Interjections.] Our children are our greatest assets. Investing in their education is the best investment we can make for sustainable social development in South Africa, yet the KwaZulu-Natal department of education sees fit to save costs by not building schools.
It’s a crying shame that full-page adverts of glimmering marquees can take priority over the provision of decent and adequately equipped schools for our children. Thank you. [Time expired.]
Ms V BAM-MUGWANYA
Mr M S MABIKA
SANITATION REMAINS A HUGE CHALLENGE IN SOUTH AFRICA
(Member’s Statement)
Ms V BAM-MUGWANYA (ANC): Deputy Speaker, despite the significant progress the ANC has made, sanitation in South Africa remains a huge challenge, particularly in the rural and peri-urban environments. The Department of Science and Technology has therefore partnered with the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to tackle the country’s sanitation challenges through research, innovation and technology. Communities in the Eastern Cape, for example, Cofimvaba and Butterworth have benefitted from this initiative in terms of the value chain of innovation as job opportunities and entrepreneurship have been some of the benefits from this partnership.
Also, policy, which is evidence-based, can be formulated from this prototype rather than the thumb-sucking, disgraceful process regarding the socially unacceptable, degrading and humiliating sanitation delivery forced on our communities in the Western Cape. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms D CARTER
Ms V BAM-MUGWANYA
SUPREMACY OF OUR CONSTITUTION AND RULE OF LAW UNDER THREAT
(Member’s Statement)
Ms D CARTER (Cope): Deputy Speaker, our state is founded upon the supremacy of our Constitution and the rule of law. Our Constitution requires of government to be effective, transparent and accountable. It requires of government to be loyal to the Constitution, our Republic and its people. Our Constitution provides that the President and the national executive are accountable, collectively and individually, for the exercise of their powers and the performance of their functions.
Speaker, “CARgate”, Guptagate, the spy tapes, the Komphela report, and Nkandla, among other scandals - and then the November 13 happenings in this very House - all point to the following: The supremacy of our Constitution and the rule of law are under threat. Government, the President and his executive are failing in their duties to be transparent and accountable to Parliament and to South Africans.
I want to quote Madiba. During a Cosatu rally in 1994, he said:
If the ANC does to you what the apartheid government did to you, then you must do to the ANC government what you did to the apartheid government.
Thank you. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Ms B NGCOBO
Ms D CARTER
SOUTH AFRICA WINS WORLD RESPONSIBLE TOURISM AWARDS
(Member’s Statement)
Ms B NGCOBO (ANC): Hon Deputy Speaker, the ANC congratulates all the South African winners of the recent World Responsible Tourism Awards, and acknowledges their role in positioning the local tourism industry as a world leader in responsible tourism.
The Hotel Verde in Cape Town won the Best City Hotel; the V&A Waterfront won the Best destination; the Mdumbi Backpackers in the Eastern Cape was a finalist in the Best for Poverty Reduction category and the South African Animal Sanctuary Alliance was the Best Global Animal Welfare Initiative and overall winner of the awards. They have ensured that South Africa continues to shine under the global spotlight.
The winners of these prestigious awards are an inspiration to all business operators. In their own unique way, each of the winners have illustrated how water conservation, energy management and fair trade practices, especially those benefitting host communities, come together to make tourism socially, economically and environmentally sustainable.
South Africa’s success indicates that the recently developed National Minimum Standards for Responsible Tourism are bearing fruit as our tourism sector continues to grow from year to year. Thank you. [Applause.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION
Ms B T NGCOBO
CHARGES OF ASSAULT AGAINST THE POLICE AND MINISTERS
(Member’s Statement)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION (DA): Hon Deputy Speaker, the DA has laid four charges of assault relating to the violence that broke out in the National Assembly on Thursday night. Three Members of Parliament laid charges against the police for assault, and a fourth Member of Parliament has laid a charge against the Deputy Minister of Higher Education after he manhandled the DA Member of Parliament Juanita Terblanche.
Some of our Members of Parliament were badly injured in the assault. It must be noted that the ANC in the House cheered and celebrated as the police assaulted our Members of Parliament. It is particularly shocking that the ANC’s spokesperson of Parliament, Moloto Mothapo, has called for the DA Members of Parliament to be charged with assault. This is a shameless attempt to shift the blame for what happened.
The DA MPs were defending themselves and the democratic legitimacy of Parliament from an unconstitutional police incursion into the National Assembly. [Interjections.] If anyone is to be arrested and charged, it should be the police officers who attacked the Members of Parliament and those responsible for authorising the police to enter the Chamber of Parliament. [Interjections.]
I will therefore be calling on the Parliamentary Oversight Authority to conduct a full investigation into the circumstances and, where possible, officials’ heads must roll. We must all work together to restore order and adherence to the rules of Parliament. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Ms M V MAFOLO
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION
COMPUTER LABORATORY HANDOVER AT THE SAINT FRANCIS COLLEGE IN MARIANNHILL
(Member’s Statement)
Ms M V MAFOLO (ANC): Hon Deputy Speaker, the ANC welcomes the handover of a computer laboratory to the historic St Francis College at Mariannhill in KwaZulu-Natal. The computer laboratory was handed over by the Telecommunications and Postal Services Department on Monday, 03 November 2014. This laboratory is equipped with the latest cutting edge educational technology that is energy efficient. It has 32 computers, a server, cabinet, network switch, cabling and air conditioners.
The State Information Technology Agency, Sita, will ensure the provision of Information and Communications Technology, ICT, integration training for teachers and learners, additional infrastructure requirements, Internet connectivity as well as ongoing technical maintenance and support of the ICT laboratory. The learners can access recorded lessons in their own time for revision purposes.
This is an example of how this government of the ANC is pursuing progressive partnerships with the state-owned companies to deliver our goals as a developmental state. This computer laboratory helps to close the digital gap by introducing the teachers and learners to modern ways of teaching and learning.
This moves us closer to the goal of developing a competitive knowledge and information society, which is envisaged by the National Development Plan. We congratulate the community of Mariannhill on this modern tool of societal transformation and development. Ke a loboga. [Thank you.] [Applause.]
Mr L M NTSHAYISA
Ms M V MAFOLO
POOR CONDITION OF RURAL ROADS
(Member’s Statement)
Mr L M NTSHAYISA (AIC): Hon Deputy Speaker, as the AIC, we always believe that the interests of the people and their aspirations should be put first. The AIC is very concerned about the bad state of our roads, especially in our homelands, like the Transkei. Potholes in the tarred roads of this part of the Eastern Cape ... [Interjections.] ... like the Transkei – a former homeland. You must learn to listen - seem to be worse off than other areas.
It is high time now that the affected department should come together, more especially all the spheres of the government - locally, provincially and nationally - to identify these problems in order that the situation could be improved. The people in the rural areas must also taste the fruit of democracy. It must not be so difficult to get to some of the villages, especially when the summer rains begin.
Our presence here as Members of Parliament should be about our people. The construction of roads is one of the ways of solving the challenge of service delivery. People are waiting for service delivery there. This House must also address the problem to help our people. The issue of tenders in this issue of the construction of roads ... [Time expired.]
Ms N CAPA
Mr L M NTSHAYISA
KWANOBUHLE SAPS CLUSTER IN UITENHAGE CONGRATULATED ON CRACKING DOWN ON DRUG DEALERS
(Member’s Statement)
Setswana:
Ms N CAPA (ANC): Ke a leboga Motlatsammusakgotla.
English:
The ANC congratulates the Kwanobuhle SAPS cluster in Uitenhage on yet again cracking down on drug dealers. A joint operation between the Uitenhage K9 Unit and the Crime Intelligence Unit yielded positive results on Friday, 14 November 2014. The members of these units acted on information and obtained a search warrant for a house in Siviwe Street, Kwanobuhle.
The premises were searched and with the assistance of K9 dog Indy, dagga was discovered in two containers in a bedroom. Dagga with the estimated value of R11 000 was seized. Two suspects, a 29-year-old male and a 25-year-old female, were arrested and were due to appear in the Kwanobuhle Magistrate’s Court on Monday, 17 November 2014, on a charge of dealing in dagga.
The ANC welcomes the integrated approach by the SAPS to utilise intelligence-led operations to fight the scourge of drug crime. The ANC-led government is committed to strengthening the capacity of the SAPS to detect crime and promptly arrest suspects to ensure that the people of South Africa are not only safe, but that they are, in fact, and feel free.
Ms D KOHLER
Ms N CAPA
DENUNCIATION OF UNCONSTITUTIONAL ACT BY PUBLIC ORDER POLICE
(Member’s Statement)
Ms D KOHLER (DA): Hon Deputy Speaker, on Thursday last week, 46 South Africans were murdered. Meanwhile our brave SAPS men, and women, I noted, were here, invading this sacrosanct space to shut down free speech in this House. On behalf of the DA, I hereby denounce in the strongest possible terms the unconstitutional act on the part of the public order police, who turned back the clock, assumed their apartheid-era riot police mandate and stormed the National Assembly Chamber on Thursday, 13 November 2014.
The police saw fit to deploy riot police in the National Assembly Chamber and when the DA members stood to protest their presence, the beat up the hon Terry Stander, the hon Juanita Terblanche, the hon Gordon McKay, the hon Dr Dion George, the hon Dean Macpherson, the hon Yusuf Cassim and the hon Michael Waters. [Interjections.]
It is disgusting that the Chairperson of the ANC saw fit to deploy riot police in Parliament to shut down freedom of speech and beat up DA MPs. [Interjections.] Police should be on the streets, keeping people safe and arresting criminals, not in this House. That’s stepping on democracy. [Applause.]
The National Assembly, South Africa, and the entire world witnessed our police service move to what hon Bheki Cele wanted - an army - which the ANC then turned, not on criminals, but on the representatives of the citizens of this country with brute force. I therefore denounce the unconstitutional invasion of Parliament and I ask the extremely silent Minister of Police to say something. Anything. Where is he? [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Ms H H MALGAS
Ms D KOHLER
PROJECT MIKONDZO BY THE DEPARTMENT OF SOCIAL SERVICES
(Member’s Statements)
Ms H MALGAS: Deputy Speaker, The ANC is pleased with and salutes the Department of Social Development on the very important programme, Project Mikondzo. Project Mikondzo brings government closer to our people. This project expedites the registration of early childhood development centres, and assists our people to access social grants, including all the other services to which they are entitled. All these services are rendered at the coalface of society. The following places benefitted from the project, De Doorns and Langa in the Western Cape; Mokgokong and Manini in Limpopo; Mvezo and Mandeni in the Eastern Cape; Piet Retief in Mpumalanga; Lindelani and Msinga in KwaZulu-Natal; Kuruman in the Northern Cape; Makwassie and Tlokwe in the North Wes; QwaQwa in the Free State and Mamelodi in Gauteng. The list is endless. On behalf of our people in poor households and communities that were assisted, as listed above, we would like to thank the President of South Africa and the Department of Social Development for their foresight and vision in the initiation of such a project that improves the lives of our people meaningfully.
Afrikaans:
Ons as die ANC het ‘n baie goeie storie om te vertel, want one neem ons mense vorentoe. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dankie. [Applous.]
MINISTERS’ RESPONSES/ The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES – CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS /Ms H MALGAS
ARMED POLICE IN THE CHAMBER A BRUTAL ASSAULT ON OUR CONSTITUTION
(Minister’s Response)
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES - CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Deputy Speaker, look, there have been a number of statements around what happened on Thursday. I just wish everybody would read the laws. The Powers and Immunities of Parliament Act, which this House passed unanimously, allows for the police to be called in by the Presiding Officer, if necessary, to remove someone from the precincts. [Interjections.] [Applause.] The problem with Thursday is that hon members were not abiding by the Rules. A member was asked to leave, and he refused to go. What else do you do? The problem also then arose on the part of the DA, as per usual by them and their supporters. They thought they knew better than anyone else did. [Interjections.] Although the police were lawfully called in, they took it up on themselves, because they know better, to defend Parliament, and that is where things went wrong.
On the issue of freedom of speech, which a number of the members have spoken about, they were ridiculous. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, Members! Order, members!
Order!
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES – CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Debate was not curtailed. The points that the hon eLader of the Opposition made, of uninhIbited debate, do not happen in this House. There are restrictions on debate. If you insult someone, you have to withdraw; if you do not withdraw, you have to leave. That is what has been happening in the last four Parliaments. [Applause.] [Interjections.] It seems, Deputy Speaker, from the way they are shouting at me that they have difficulty understanding this. Thank you. [Interjections.]
Prince M G BUTHELEZI: I rise on a point of order, sir. I cannot hear what the Deputy Minister is saying, because my colleagues here are making such a noise. I cannot hear. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, can you take the counsel of hon Shenge, please. You are making a noise. We cannot even hear any useful interjections.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES – CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Would you like me to repeat for them, if they will listen? [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES – CORRECTIONAL SERVICES
COMPUTER LABORATORY HANDOVER AT THE SAINT FRANCIS COLLEGE IN MARIANNHILL
CONCERN OVER KWAZULU-NATAL GOVERNMENT’s SUSPENSION OF SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION DUE TO FINANCIAL DIFFICULTIES
KWAZULU-NATAL GOVERNMENT HALTS SCHOOLS RENOVATION PROGRAMMES BUT STILL SPLASHES OUT
(Minister’s Reponse)
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Deputy Speaker, there have been several statements with regard to education and I will just respond very quickly to them. Firstly, with regard to the delivery of information and communication technology, ICT, by the Department of Telecommunications and Postal Services, this delivery is part of the 1 685 schools that will be beneficiaries of ICT to be provided. Many schools have already received the ICT. It is a comprehensive programme and all provinces are taking forward the fact that we are in the 21st century of information technology and therefore provinces, particularly Gauteng and the Western Cape, are doing extremely well in terms of the provision of ICT. We can share with you that all the curriculum content is completely digitised, that matriculants, Grade 10, 11 and 12 textbooks for maths and science have been digitised and Grades 4, 5 and 6 are being digitised. The intention is to have the entire curriculum and its textbooks digitised to make access possible.
With regard to the issue of infrastructure, contrary to what we have heard today, more than 72 state-of-the-art schools have been delivered in the Eastern Cape to replace mud schools and the programme is continuing. The Western Cape itself is a beneficiary of at least 7 state-of-the-art schools. There is another 7 that are under construction and another 10 that have been allocated for next year. Therefore, we take to heart the importance of infrastructure.
With regard to the issues in KwaZulu-Natal that have been raised by hon members, it is a matter of great concern. What I can share with the House is that we have a dedicated team that helps with post provisioning, which tends to interfere with other facets of education and where we support provinces.
Similarly, with regard to infrastructure, we have asked the team to assist provinces that have difficulties with regard to co-ordination and planning. We will take the responsibility for ensuring that we do the appropriate interventions when the information becomes available. Thank you very much, hon Deputy Speaker. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF TOURISM
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
SOUTH AFRICA WINS WORLD RESPONSIBLE TOURISM AWARDS
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER OF TOURISM: Deputy Speaker, I want to respond to the statement made on the World Responsible Tourism Awards and I would like add my word of congratulations to the winners of the World Responsible Tourism Awards. These winners really do our country proud. We are really becoming acknowledged now as leaders in the area of responsible and sustainable tourism.
We have a flourishing, vibrant tourism sector in our country, with some inspiring examples of establishments that include local communities and their tourism activities that ensure that local communities benefit from the arrival of tourists and that is really a good thing that we should all encourage. However, in the area of environmental responsibility, energy efficiency and improved waste management, we have some truly inspiring examples of what can be done to achieve sustainability. I would really like to urge hon members, if they have the opportunity, to visit the Hotel Verde, which is close to the airport, to see for themselves what can be done in the area of utilising renewable clean energy in the form of solar energy, wind energy, and improved waste management. There is a swimming pool at that hotel that does not use an ounce of chemicals. It just uses sustainable practices and the water is absolutely clean.
In that light, I won’t respond to some of the comments made from across the floor, the pilot referred to by the hon member in the Cofimvaba area is another example of sustainability. In a country that is a water scarce country, we must pilot sanitation options that do not rely on water. This offers hope for many rural dwellers who, at this stage, are dependant on sanitation options that are not necessarily the best and most effective. It would also assist the Department of Education a great deal to provide effective sanitation solutions to the many schools in our country that do not have access to water and that have to seek and apply alternative solutions. The Bill and Malinda Gates Foundation has chosen South Africa as the country to apply its technologies and innovations.
On that note, I just want to mention that we on this side of the House are deliberately refraining from responding to some of the provocative statements made from across the floor, because we are trying to abide by the spirit of the discussion held this morning, chaired by the Deputy President of the country. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION
The MINISTER OF TOURISM
REPATRIATION OF REMAINS OF SOUTH AFRICAN COMPATRIOTS FROM NIGERIA
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Deputy Speaker, thank you for the comments that have been made with regard to the incident in Lagos, Nigeria. We would like to further strengthen our words of condolence to the families who lost their loved ones.
We would like to emphasise that the South African government is your government and we will always do everything possible to assist South Africans who find themselves in difficulties outside this country. We have left no stone unturned. We have deployed all possible resources that we could to assist, in partnership with the Nigerian government, the families to find closure. We are confident that the remaining issues that need to be dealt with will be dealt with. This matter has further strengthened our diplomatic relations and partnership with the Nigerian government and people. I thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF TELECOMMUNICATIONS AND POSTAL SERVICES
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION
NONCOMMUNICABLE DISEASES BECOMING SERIOUS THREAT TO OUR WELLBEING
CELEBRATING HANDOVER OF A COMPUTER LABORATORY AT SAINT FRANCIS COLLEGE IN MARIANNHILL
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER OF TELECOMMUNICATIONS AND POSTAL SERVICES: Deputy Speaker, just a quick response from Dr Cwele. We strongly believe that lifestyle diseases such as diabetes and hypertension can be beaten by avoiding obesity, particularly you members, and not eating junk and getting a lot of exercise. That is why, in most of our municipalities today, you will find open gym spaces where people can go and exercise because exercise is the key in dealing with these diseases. [Interjections.] I hope members won’t tribalise this, because most of you come here trim and leave here fat. That is why we have a gym here.
Secondly, about what the hon Deputy Minister of Education said about Saint Francis, these schools where we are rolling out this infrastructure out are not just benefitting from computers and connectivity, they are also reaping the greater benefit of the equipment they get. They’ll get airtime at half the price of what we as South Africans get it. That’s what we call an e-rate. We have expanded this e-rate to all health facilities so that those in health facilities can have access to affordable ICT systems.
We do this infrastructure roll-out in provinces, as has been mentioned, and at the pilot sites for the NSI, like uMzinyathi, O R Tambo and many others in all the provinces, because we believe the Internet and technology will be the greatest equalisers in our divided post-apartheid society. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS
The MINISTER OF TELECOMMUNICATIONS AND POSTAL SERVICES
SUPREMACY OF OUR CONSTITUTION AND RULE OF LAW UNDER THREAT
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Deputy Speaker, we in the ANC have decided to refrain from responding to any comments, but we have decided to make public the statement that has been released by the Deputy President after meeting with the leaders of the parliamentary parties. I would like to read it for the benefit of the House.
The meeting discussed recent events in Parliament, agreeing that the situation was unacceptable and untenable. Parties represented agreed to, firstly, reaffirm Parliament as a representative of the people with the responsibility of ensuring government by the people under the Constitution; secondly, work to restore the dignity, integrity and standing of Parliament; thirdly, reaffirm respect for the Rules, procedures and structures of Parliament; fourthly, work together to ensure that Rules and procedures are applied consistently, fairly and without fear, favour or prejudice; fifthly, reaffirm the responsibility of the presiding officers to apply the Rules consistently, fairly and without fear, favour or prejudice; sixthly, reaffirm the principle of executive accountability, that all members of the executive are to appear and do appear before Parliament, as required by the Rules; seventhly, work together to ensure a climate in Parliament that enables members of the executive to appear before Parliament and properly account; eighthly, reject any attempt in whatever form to suppress debate or silence dissent; ninthly, promote a culture of substantive quality debate and reject insulting language and personal attacks on members; and tenthly, establish a committee consisting of leaders of government business and leaders of parties represented in Parliament to lead a political process to address the current situation in Parliament.
The committee will be chaired by the Leader of Government Business, who will be deputised by the Chief Whip of the Majority Party and the Leader of the Opposition. Eleventhly, the current process with respect to the earlier disruptions in the House will be held in abeyance until the committee has completed its work.
The meeting also agreed that concerns raised with respect to time allocated to parties in Parliament and political party funding will be referred to the Chief Whips’ Forum. The meeting agreed that engagements between the Leader of Government Business and leaders of parties represented in Parliament will be regularised.
This was issued by the Presidency on 18 November. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr J J MCGLUWA: Deputy Speaker, the Minister forgot point 12 – to make sure that that the President comes to Parliament.
Business suspended at 18:35 and resumed at 19:38.
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT/The MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
MINISTER’S RESPONSES/ The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS/Mr J J MCGLUWA
INTEGRATED URBAN DEVELOPMENT FRAMEWORK
(Statement)
The MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS: Hon House Chair, hon members, what we are talking about this evening, as late as it is, is the phenomenon of urbanisation and how we manage that. There are many who will claim that the world is becoming more urban. One journalist and author, a gentleman called Doug Saunders, in a book, Arrival City, writes:
What will be remembered about the 21st century more than anything else, except perhaps the effects of changing climate, is the great and final shift of human populations out of rural, agricultural life and into cities. We will end this century as a wholly urban species.
The United Nations estimates that by 2050 only one third of the world population will reside in rural areas, with the remaining two thirds living in urban areas. This is a reverse of the world settlement patterns in 1950, when two thirds of the world population lived in rural areas and only 1,5 billion people lived in urban areas.
The urban population increased from 1,5 billion to 3,9 billion between 1950 and 2014. It is projected that this figure will increase by 60% and that by 2050 the urban population will have increased to 6,5 billion. Just three countries – India, China and Nigeria – together are expected to account for one third of global urban population growth.
An interesting dimension to this urbanisation phenomenon is not only the increase in numbers, but the rate at which urbanisation is happening. While it took at least 64 years for 2,4 billion people to move to cities between 1950 and 2014, it is expected that it will take only 24 years to add an additional 2,6 billion people to cities.
While Africa is the least urbanised, at 40% urban population, it has more than 414 million urbanites, which is higher in actual numbers than the city dwellers in Europe, North or South America. Only Asia has more people living in cities. It is also predicted that Africa’s urban population will double over the next 20 years and triple over the next 40 years, reaching 64% by 2050. Cairo, Kinshasa and Lagos are currently the megacities in Africa. This is expected to change, as three more are expected to emerge by 2030, namely Dar es Salaam, Johannesburg and Luanda, and they are projected to surpass the 10 million population mark.
South Africa is no exception to these global trends. Our 2011 census results indicate that 63% of South Africans live in urban areas. The National Development Plan, NDP, projects that this will increase to 70% by 2030. The United Nations further estimates that by 2050, 80% of all South Africans will live in urban areas.
The population is concentrated in cities. Our cities cover only 2,3% of the national area, yet account for 49,7% of the population. Four major city regions, namely Gauteng, eThekwini, Cape Town and Nelson Mandela Bay, account for 42% of the population. This requires an urgent initiative from government and society to implement measures to reap the potential benefits offered by urbanisation, and deal with the challenges of urban poverty and inequality.
Unlike other urbanising countries, our urbanisation pattern is complex. Circular labour migration under apartheid has led to the creation of multiple households, with most households maintaining a footprint in both urban and rural areas. This means that the way we do spatial planning, render services and infrastructure need to take this phenomenon into account. Although this pattern might change in the long term, it also requires us to better understand and respond to the intricate relationship and connection between rural and urban areas.
Trends in developing countries indicate that urbanisation generates significant opportunities for economic growth and poverty reduction through creating jobs and enhancing livelihood strategies for the poor. This relationship is, however, not automatic. Urbanisation in Africa has not brought that inclusive growth. Instead, high urbanisation levels have resulted in an increase in informal settlements, urban poverty and rising inequality. African cities have the second-highest levels of inequality in the world, with a Gini coefficient of 0,58 compared to the global average of 0,4. This figure is higher for South African cities.
The National Development Plan, NDP, indicates that although the country has made remarkable progress since the dawn of democracy, many shortcomings remain. Added to these shortcomings are new challenges that have emerged, which require concerted efforts during this period of transformation. Some of these challenges include the fact that too few people work, as we all know; infrastructure is poorly located, undermaintained and insufficient for fostering higher growth. We have dysfunctional spatial patterns that exclude the poor from the fruits of development; towns and cities face several challenges; and there are the challenges of providing housing, basic services and reactivating communities. The state is characterised by weak spatial planning and governance capabilities.
With more people living in urban areas, the new narrative is how to transform our urban spaces in line with the vision outlined in the NDP. Growing alignment is emerging between economic opportunity and population concentration. This provides an opportunity for improved access to services and other facilities in addressing inequality. It is this opportunity that we need to harness as we reverse the apartheid spatial patterns at the same time.
So, why does urban matter? It matters, as the Rio+20 Conference outcome indicates, as it is the future we want; and it recognised that cities can lead the way towards economically, socially and environmentally sustainable societies if we do it right. However, a holistic approach to urban planning and management is needed to improve the standards of life of urban and rural dwellers alike.
Cities and towns offer great opportunities for addressing the challenges of poverty and inequality, as I indicated earlier. This, however, requires collaboration between all role-players, civil society and the private sector. Unplanned urbanisation, on the other hand, results in homelessness, congestion, environmental pollution, degradation, pressure on infrastructure and services, and poor health, amongst other factors. South Africa is currently experiencing some of these downsides of urbanisation. This is seen most starkly in townships, informal settlements and inner cities.
It is in trying to meet these challenges that we have initiated the process of defining for ourselves an urban development programme. Some of the imperatives that we have taken into account to move in this direction are the following. The first is the economic imperative. As a recent report by the World Bank on South Africa notes, South Africa remains a dual economy, with one of the highest inequality rates in the world, perpetuating inequality and the exclusion of the majority of our people. Spatially, an advanced, modern urban economy coexists in sharp contrast with the socioeconomic poverty of disadvantaged townships, informal settlements and rural areas.
Our cities and towns produce some 81% of the gross value added, up from 79% in 1996. There is potential to increase this contribution and create more jobs in a more cost-effective way through the efficiencies and potential they offer by virtue of their scale, diversity and density of activity and population in urban areas. This potential is currently compromised by bottlenecks in the development of infrastructure, which act as brakes on growth.
The second factor is the spatial transformation imperative. Our cities are exclusive, as we have indicated, and inefficient. Apartheid created towns and cities divided into townships without basic infrastructure for blacks and well-resourced suburbs for whites and the middle classes.
The current urban form affects not only the economic prospects of the people, but also their quality of life. This urban form affects the livelihood of those who have fewer resources to make location choices, and makes it expensive for government to build and maintain infrastructure. There is therefore a need to change this urban form and shift further away from the spatial separation along racial and class lines towards more integrated, denser and more cohesive cities and towns that benefit from the diversity of our country.
The third factor is the inclusion imperative. Poor people are generally marginalised, with poor access to social and economic opportunities and choices. We must be more supportive of our poor households. There is a need to consciously implement measures that accommodate the poor in less congested and less disaster-prone environments, prioritising the upgrading of informal settlements, as well as adopting economic policies and land use management systems that support informal enterprises.
The fourth imperative is the institutional imperative. Despite the availability of progressive developmental legislation and sector policies, weak institutions undermine our ability to have well-planned and governed cities and towns. The challenges are further compounded by weak intergovernmental planning and co-ordination across the three spheres of government. For the economic, inclusive and spatial imperatives to be met, strong leadership at city level is required. The task of leaders in our context is to optimise the work of municipalities, ensure full intergovernmental collaboration and, above all, contribute to the development of resilient and agile institutions.
So, the Integrated Urban Development Framework, IUDF, was the product of many years of work, initiated in 2012, led by a team of Deputy Ministers, at the time chaired by Deputy Minister Yunus Carrim. In response to these imperatives, we have, today, the Integrated Urban Development Framework for discussion. This is in response to several chapters of the National Development Plan, to deal with challenges related to the transformation of human settlements, economic development, environmental sustainability and resilience in improving urban governance. The rural-urban interface is also a key concern, and the development framework expresses the importance of overcoming a crude, binary, rural versus urban distinction, and rather focusing on the rural-urban continuum.
The key elements of the IUDF, as we indicated earlier, are some of the following. The first is access - that is, to ensure that people have access to social and economic services, and opportunities and choices.
The second is growth. Harness urban dynamism for inclusive and sustainable economic growth and development.
The third is governance. Enhance the capacity of the state and its citizens to work together to achieve social and economic development and integration.
The fourth is spatial transformation. Forge new spatial forms in settlement terms in transport, social and economic areas.
All of this will be achieved, the draft development framework indicates, through several policy levers, and I will briefly describe them. The first is integrated spatial planning, which is the foundation of anything we should do in the future. Integrated spatial planning is essential for coherent development. It stimulates a more rational organisation and use of urban spaces, guides investments, and encourages prudent use of land and natural resources to build sustainable communities.
The second is integrated transport and mobility. Integrated transport and mobility is a vital component of South Africa’s economic infrastructure investment. It contributes to a denser and more efficient urban form, supports economic and social development, and is crucial for strengthening rural and urban linkages.
The third is integrated, sustainable human settlements. Integrated and sustainable human settlements are key to redressing the prevailing apartheid geography, restructuring cities, shifting ownership profiles and choices, and creating more humane and environmentally friendly living spaces and working conditions.
The fourth is integrated urban infrastructure. An integrated urban infrastructure which is resource-sufficient and provides for both universal access and more inclusive economic growth, needs to be extensive and strong enough to meet industrial, commercial and household needs, and should also be planned in a way that supports the development of an efficient and equitable urban form, and facilitates access to social and economic opportunities.
The fifth is efficient land governance and management. Both municipalities and private investors have a vested interest in land value remaining stable and increasing. At the same time, property values reflect apartheid patterns of segregation and monofunctional use, which need to be addressed to promote spatial transformation.
Efficient land governance and management will contribute to the growth of inclusive and multifunctional urban spaces. In essence, what we are saying here is that there is an old style of planning in our cities, where you separate commercial, industrial and residential, and so on. There’s a new pattern of planning that we need to begin to work with, where you have a lot more integration between these kinds of activities.
The sixth is inclusive economic development. This is the backbone of our national economic policy and the emphasis here is on the importance of employment creation, nationally, through specific drivers. These include seizing the potential of new economies through technological innovation, investing in social capital and public services, and focusing on spatial development. Inclusive economic development is essential to creating jobs, generating higher incomes and creating viable communities.
The seventh is empowered, active communities. Cities cannot succeed without the energy and investment of their citizens. In fact, the very power of cities stems from their unique capacity to bring together a critical mass of social and cultural diversity – something that apartheid robbed us of. This conception of democratic citizenship is at the core of the active citizenship agenda, advocated by the National Development Plan. Empowering communities will transform the quality of urban life and, of course, the decisions that we make as government.
The eighth is effective urban governance. The complexities of urban governance include managing the intergovernmental dynamics within the city, relations with the province and with neighbouring municipalities, let alone national government. City governments need to manage multiple fiscal, political and accountability tensions in order to fulfil their developmental and growth mandates. If we get it right, the result will be inclusive, resilient and liveable urban spaces.
Of course, all of these eight levers are connected to the Back to Basics programme that we are sponsoring at present. At the core of attaining these objectives is going back to basics – the basics of ensuring evidence-based and informed, integrated spatial planning that informs infrastructure investments for achieving integrated urban development.
We have noted that in most cases integrated spatial planning does not form the basis for budgeting and programmatic interventions. Dealing with this requires of us to get the basics of planning right and ensure that our municipalities have credible, quality spatial development frameworks that inform long-term infrastructure investment decisions. This needs all levels of government to work together with cities to ensure alignment of sectoral plans in line with the cities’ spatial plans. With the emergence of city regions, it further requires that urgent attention should be paid to intermunicipal planning.
How do we concretise the urban development framework, and what do we do, in concrete terms, in the years ahead? The challenges facing our cities require all of us to act with speed. Over the coming months, we will work with our national partners, cities and other stakeholders to, amongst other things, develop and implement mechanisms for ensuring spatial integration.
The built environment performance plans, developed by cities though the City Support programme, identify spatial integration zones in metros. We will be working with partners to mobilise support for the implementation of these plans in order to change the current urban form. As part of this process, we will explore the possibilities of implementing spatial contracts, as advocated by the NDP.
We will identify collaborative planning and integrated delivery, in this regard, and implement measures to strengthen collaborative planning and integrated delivery, particularly through the Interministerial Committee on Service Delivery.
Promoting densification and curbing urban sprawl is one of the most immediate dangers that we are facing. Our cities and the new developments, in particular, are taking our infrastructure investment in the wrong direction. So, we need to develop measures to promote densification and curb, indeed stop, urban sprawl.
The next is accessing state-owned land. We want to work with cities and partners to unlock strategically-owned government land for spatial transformation.
Improving spatial planning is our next target. In line with the back-to-basics approach, we will work with selected secondary cities to improve their spatial planning capabilities and governance capabilities, as well as getting alignment between planning and budgeting processes.
With regard to economic development, we will work with selected towns and cities to strengthen their efforts for promoting economic development in their areas.
So, we are, in the next few months, going to engage in public and other forms of consultation. We intend to use the consultation process to identify and obtain areas of consensus between different partners, and we invite everyone in this House to join us, to be part of this process and contribute towards building liveable, inclusive and resilient cities. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr K J MILEHAM
The MINISTER FOR CO-OPERATIVE GOVERNANCE AND TRADITIONAL AFFAIRS
Mr K J MILEHAM: Chairperson, I must admit to being somewhat taken aback by the Minister’s choice of topic for his statement, given the multitude of other critical issues facing his department, and the fact that this framework is still only an early draft.
That said, I would like to start by telling a story. It’s a story about a school in New Brighton, in the Nelson Mandela Metropolitan Municipality. Some of you may have read about it in the Sunday Times this past weekend. It’s a school that was built brand new, at a cost of R40 million, in 1994. Last year, it achieved an 85% matric pass rate. Unfortunately for Gqebera High School, declining pupil numbers resulted in that school being closed at the end of 2013. In the last month, this school, which boasted 34 classrooms, a science laboratory and a computer room, has been carried off, brick by brick, by local residents desperate to build themselves a place to live. Today, that school is gone.
According to the Human Sciences Research Council’s South Africa Survey 2013, the proportion of our country’s population living in urban areas has increased from 56,9% in 2000 to 62,4% in 2012. This rural-urban migration has enormous consequences for our urban municipalities’ abilities to meet the needs of burgeoning populations.
Some of the issues already faced by urban areas include ageing and poorly maintained infrastructure, a high demand for land, housing and services, poor urban planning and sluggish economic growth. These issues are exacerbated by the increased pressure from growing populations. This, in turn, leads to further consequences, including increased urban sprawl; deteriorating public transport systems; growing unemployment and concentrated poverty; rising levels of crime and general lawlessness; and environmental and health issues.
Gqebera High School is a casualty of the migration patterns of people over time. It’s a casualty of people seeking to live closer to the places where they work, or to be nearer to services and amenities. It’s a casualty of people needing to be closer to the transport they need to get from A to B. Lastly, it’s a casualty of people seeking to improve their lives and move up the economic ladder.
South Africa is not unique in this regard, and while apartheid spatial planning has had a severely detrimental effect on urban integration, we can learn from best practices the world over on how to make our cities more inclusive. The country will benefit from urbanisation if we ensure effective links between investments in people, place and economy: people – in order to enhance their capabilities; places – in order to make them more liveable and encourage greater social integration, safety, more access to opportunities, culture and recreation; and the economy – to make it more resilient, productive and job-creating.
Now, in order to address the challenges highlighted above, we need to revisit how our cities are designed and managed. To put this in perspective, very little has been done to use planning and other regulatory systems to enable access to land for the urban poor, and state-owned land has rarely been exploited to open up opportunities for them. This is just one aspect of what the Integrated Urban Development Framework, IUDF, can be used to achieve. We could equally talk about transport planning or landuse patterns that bring jobs closer to where people live.
Simply put, the purpose of this Integrated Urban Development Framework is to provide a tool to assist the country’s urban municipalities to manage urbanisation. As an overarching policy framework, the IUDF must provide guidance on how various government programmes and resources can be better managed to break the negative spiral of impoverishment that characterises these areas.
However, there are some obstacles that will need to be addressed. A key challenge is going to be to eliminate intergovernmental turf wars and ensure a streamlined implementation process. In this regard, we are eager to see the practical measures that will be taken to implement the IUDF. We are concerned that this is just another “paper policy” that will be ignored more than it is implemented.
A further consideration is the financial implications of this framework. Municipalities are already stretched to the maximum, with a number using conditional grants, such as the municipal infrastructure grant, to pay operational expenses, like salaries. Any added burden to their budgets, without the provision of additional revenue streams, is doomed to failure. We urge that, as part of the development process of the IUDF, a comprehensive review of municipal financial models be undertaken.
The linkage between rural and urban economies is critical, considering that many South Africans remit money home from urban areas to their families in rural municipalities. This has the effect of a capital outflow from urban to rural areas. Thus, the creation of jobs and economic growth in urban areas can be seen to have an uplifting effect on their rural neighbours. While this is generally positive, much more must be done to ensure that rural municipalities become economically self-sustaining, and are, themselves, enabling an environment conducive to business investment and job creation.
So, the DA welcomes the increased focus on addressing the spatial and logistical challenges faced by our cities and towns. We welcome the fact that this framework addresses specific elements of the National Development Plan, which states:
By 2030, South Africa should observe meaningful and measurable progress in reviving rural areas and in creating more functionally integrated, balanced and vibrant urban settlements. For this to happen, the country must: clarify and relentlessly pursue a national vision for spatial development; sharpen the instruments for achieving this vision; [and] build the required capabilities in the state and among citizens.
We welcome any policy that seeks to improve the economic growth of our country, to create jobs and to uplift our people. However, we will only achieve this if – and it’s a big “if”, given the track record of this ANC-led government – Minister Gordhan is able to get rid of corruption and maladministration at provincial and local level; to get every job vacancy in every municipality filled with qualified, fit-for-purpose personnel; to get accountability prevalent in all management structures; and, if he is able to get South Africa’s dysfunctional municipalities working again.
It remains to be seen whether the Minister will accomplish that. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr N P KHOZA
Mr K J MILEHAM
Mr N P KHOZA: Hon Chairperson, having listened to the Minister alluding to some of the issues touching our communities, it is clear that South Africa is going backwards.
Twenty years after democracy, South African urban geography is characterised by three distinct but interlinked features. Firstly, we have First World residential and industrial areas, with amenities and services that are top quality, inhabited and used by mostly white people who have benefitted from apartheid and who are still currently benefitting from the democratic government, without any moral guilt. All they have derive from the super-exploitation of the two sections of our population mentioned below.
Secondly, we have new developments mushrooming on the semiperiphery of our urban centres to cater for the rising number of the black semi-bourgeoisie, wrongly characterised as the black middle class. This class is forever indebted, and is very useful for keeping afloat white monopoly industries. They drive cars they do not own, live in houses owned by the banks, wear clothes thy have not paid for. This is a class that produces nothing, innovates nothing, and invests all their time in sustaining white power institutions. Their existence is manna from heaven for the white capitalists.
Thirdly, on the far periphery of these urban centres are labour concentration camps called townships. These are rat-infested present-day extermination sites for black people, areas with very little going for them, whose sole purpose is to serve the more affluent areas occupied by whites and the black elite. [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members! Order! [Interjections.]
Mr N P KHOZA: This Integrated Urban Development Framework, intended to actualise the goals of the poorly conceptualised National Development Plan, NDP, fails to even acknowledge the existence of these compartments in our societal geography. The UN has estimated that, by 2050, 80% of all South Africans will be living in urban areas. From current trends, one can deduce that the size of the townships will more than triple, trying to make way for more black labour to come and service their white masters.
The ANC has failed spectacularly to even make a dent in transforming apartheid geography and the thinking behind it. it has instead strengthened it more. This framework does nothing more than reconfigure and strengthen the race and class divides that have always existed in our society. The ANC policy-makers fail to comprehend a very simple fact, that people follow development; it’s not development that follows people.
By ignoring developing industries in areas where people stay, the ANC is tinkering with an explosive ecological and humanitarian disaster. Current urban centres simply cannot carry more spikes in population growth. Instead of investing time and resources in diversifying our country and developing rural and peri-urban centres, the ANC is looking at low-hanging fruits, where it can derive immediate glory. This unfortunately maintains the rurality of our rural areas, and keeps black people as perpetual providers of labour to the illegitimately rich, white industries.
The development of a societal geography free of apartheid hangovers is possible, indeed. If the ANC can spend R240 million on building Nkandla, then it should be possible to create an entirely new rural and peri-urban landscape that will ease the pressure of the present urban centres.
This framework is poorly conceptualised and the EFF cannot support it. I thank you. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Mr M HLENGWA
Mr N P KHOZA
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon House Chairperson, failing to plan is planning to fail, and if we don’t plan, we are not going to see South Africa progressing. Therefore, the IFP welcomes the development of the Integrated Urban Development Framework. We see it as a necessary tool for us to know who is who in the zoo – not just going on – so that we are able to ensure that development, as we want it, actually exists.
The second point is that we are known for planning in South Africa. That is our trademark; that is our hallmark. We plan for everything, but our plans never materialise. The National Development Plan, NDP, which the Integrated Urban Development Framework is underpinned by, is itself under threat. It is under siege. There are many forces which are anti the NDP. Therefore, at the centre of all this is the fact that the NDP must be able to survive and must be implemented so that all the other plans which flow out of it, like this particular one, will find expression in being implemented.
Hon Minister, I would like to tell a story by saying that the IFP is not new to this type of planning. When our people were forced out of the cities like eThekwini, Durban, and were told that they could not live there, the then KwaZulu-Natal government developed new townships, like Umlazi and KwaMashu, to ensure that our people had decent places to live in. Those townships found themselves with tertiary institutions like the Mangosuthu University of Technology. They have hospitals in Ngwelezane, the Prince Mshiyeni Hospital, and so on. There are schools and clinics. Therefore, there is a model which seeks to respond to the pressures in which our people find themselves when they have to move from rural areas to urban areas.
The third point would be that on the flipside of this coin is that rural development must also be a priority because our urban areas do not have the capacity to withstand the pressures which come with people moving from rural areas to urban areas. Therefore, whilst we are doing this type of planning, rural development must also take precedence, because it is there where we can exploit further economic opportunities and further economic growth, which will be a catalyst for growth and development.
Townships currently resemble and characterise both rural and urban elements and they have become a buffer zone where people are living, and therefore we want to plead that townships are put at the centre and are prioritised because our people are stuck in townships between rural areas and urban areas. Townships do not inspire confidence in their current form and they continue to deteriorate. This will obviously speak to quality housing. This will speak to improving the infrastructure that exists. It will need an overhaul to ensure that we are able to upscale. If South Africa is part of Brics, we must be able to match up on our urbanisation.
Minister, we will be working with you to ensuring that this becomes a reality and that at the end of the day this plan does achieve the objectives of the NDP, because the NDP must survive. It is incumbent upon all of us here to make sure that it does. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr S C MNCWABE
Mr M HLENGWA
Mr S C MNCWABE: Chairperson, the NFP has taken note of the very comprehensive and well-considered Integrated Urban Development Framework. We are of the opinion that this framework contains all the necessary key provisions to manage the rapidly increasing urbanisation trend currently experienced in South Africa, and will assist, in the long term, to turn our cities and towns into safer and more efficient living spaces.
For this framework to be implemented successfully, the enormous, co-ordinated effort of all role-players will be required. However, we have grave reservations about the political will and political capacity of government to successfully implement this framework.
The NFP would, moreover, wish to see a synchronised framework for the development of rural areas. We take note of the assertion that urban development is not an alternative to rural development, and that an integrated approach is required. It remains our considered view that urbanisation could best be slowed down by meaningful and sustainable rural development. To this effect, the NFP would suggest that incentives be put in place for business and investors to redirect their commercial activities to rural areas for rapid acceleration of rural services such as roads, water, electricity and human settlements.
In conclusion, the NFP supports the Integrated Urban Development Framework, and we pledge our full support thereto. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M L W FILTANE
Mr S C MNCWABE
Mr M L W FILTANE: I don’t know who is responsible for sneaking my notes to the NFP ... [Interjections.] ... but, hon Chairperson and hon members, sustainable urban development presents a case for strategic and programmatic interaction between rural and urban development frameworks. This, in our strong view, is the route to be taken for holistic community development and sustainability.
Whilst the debate focuses on the Integrated Urban Development Framework, it is important to strike the necessary and logical balance between this framework and the Integrated Rural Development Framework in order to stem the tide to towns. In many instances, a lack of interaction between these two frameworks can be one of the reasons for the lack of success of either framework.
Demographics and economic criteria, on which the definition of rural and urban areas is based, can vary widely. What does not vary is the need for both urban and rural development, which must complement each other.
We believe that a balanced approach towards rural and urban development is a necessary balance in order to simultaneously address the triple challenge confronting South Africa today. We believe that taking full advantage of agriculture as a tool for expanding our economy, creating jobs and generating wealth, especially in rural areas, will make rural areas places of choice for living and reduce the migration of people to urban areas in search of a better livelihood. This will mitigate the negative and unintended political, economic and social consequences that come with the migration of people to towns. We believe that the creation of the necessary infrastructure in rural areas will create jobs and encourage the growth of more employment—creating, nonagriculture-related enterprises, to ensure that the migration to urban areas is slowed down.
This strategy should be linked to the creation of value for rural properties and an acceleration of the distribution of land to encourage people to return to, and remain in rural areas and start productive enterprises there. A typical example would be to develop one-stop economic hubs in rural areas and this will help people to have capital like energy, roads, water, etc.
Critical to the success of both rural and urban development strategies is the quality of local governance. Experience tells us that the current poor political management and administration of local government is largely responsible for the general collapse of urban renewal initiatives. Good governance, including expansion and sustenance of the rural local economic revenue base, coupled with skilled, dedicated and noncorrupt workforces and politicians are success inputs into urban and rural development frameworks.
This is the plan that will change South Africa and that will make people’s lives a lot healthier. This is the plan we should follow in South Africa, because we can stem the tide of people wanting to go to urban areas. Not everybody is excited about going to urban areas. I thank you.
Dr P J GROENEWALD
Mr M L W FILTANE
Afrikaans:
Dr P J GROENEWALD: Agb Voorsitter, die agb Minister het basies kom verslag doen en gesê dat daar word na die sewe pilare van die Geintegreerde Stedelike Ontwikkelingsraamwerk gekyk. Hy het ook gesê hulle gaan nou met samesprekings van belanghebendes ter uitvoering van hierdie plan begin.
Die VF Plus is bekommerd, want as ons na hierdie sewe pilare gaan kyk – en in my beperkte tyd kyk ek net na twee van hierdie pilare – is die een geintegreerde infrastruktuurontwikkeling en die ander is effektiewe en doelgerigte stedelike regering. As ons net na daardie twee pilare van hierdie plan kyk, wat natuurlik nou deel is van die Nasionale Ontwikkelingsplan vir 2030, dan sê ek vir u dat die gevaarligte en rooi ligte aanhoudend flikker.
Niemand sal met die agb Minister verskil as hy sê dat verstedeliking ’n werklikheid en ’n realiteit is nie, waarmee rekening gehou moet word om in die toekoms voorbereid te wees om dit te kan hanteer nie. Dit gaan gebeur. As ons gaan kyk na infrastruktuurontwikkeling in Suid-Afrika, moet ’n mens in die media verneem dat konstruksiemaatskappye in ’n krisis is, want in hierdie stadium is daar nie genoeg werk om hulle besig te hou nie. Hulle wag vir hierdie infrastruktuurontwikkeling, maar die vraag is, is daar geld van die regering se kant om die infrastruktuurontwikkeling te doen? Dit lyk nie so nie. Ek wil vandag vir die Minister sê dat as hy nie spoedig optree sodat daar begin kan word met hierdie infrastruktuurontwikkeling nie, dan gaan daar konstruksiemaatskappye wees wat eenvoudig sal moet sluit. Dit gaan bydra tot verdere werkloosheid, en dit is presies die teenoorgestelde van wat ons wil bereik in terme van die Nasionale Ontwikkelingsplan.
Laat ek oor die aspek van effektiewe regering in terme van stedelike ontwikkeling praat. Die Minister weet mos in watter toestand plaaslike regering is. Ek wil vandag vir die agb Minister sê as hy nie daadwerklik gaan optree om ontslae te raak van kaderontplooing en ontslae te raak van onbevoegde mense wat in hoë poste sit nie – want daar is munisipaliteite wat in die een opsig hul begroting in terme van infrastruktuur teruggee, want hulle weet nie hoe om dit te spandeer nie, en ander munisipaliteite gebruik hul infrastruktuurbegroting vir operasionele begroting, om salarisse te betaal. As u nie gaan ingryp en van daardie mense ontslae raak nie, dan sê ek vandag vir u dat die VF Plus uiters bekommerd is, want 2030 is basies oor 15 jaar, en gaan ons nie hierdie verstedeliking kan hanteer nie. Dit gaan verder chaos in stedelike ontwikkeling veroorsaak. Ek dank u. [Applous.]
Mr W M MADISHA
Dr P J GROENEWALD
Mr W M MADISHA: Hon Chair, Minister, the first and most pertinent question is whether the framework makes provision for urban development to be people-centred, people-driven and people-owned. The framework before us provides a milieu for forums of dialogue and liaison at neighbourhood as well as municipal level to focus on urban design and management.
The expectation is that the forums should bring together relevant stakeholders, particularly the working class and the poor of our country. The framework recognises that government will have to provide resources to build the capacity of ordinary citizens and undertake the social facilitation to understand issues related to urban design and management.
We in Cope believe that this, indeed, is the starting point. We want to know if the Minister has already acquired resources for this purpose and, further, if his department has designed some kind of curriculum to assist both communities and facilitators. To run ahead of preparing communities is to put the proverbial cart before the puzzled horse. Cope calls on the Minister to begin enrolling activist citizens at the neighbourhood level to participate in the forums and to enhance the efficacy of ward level representation. The Minister must begin this process right away.
The framework indicates that the department can follow successful processes and practices used in community police forums and health communities. With proper and consistent research, the department can acquire more of the ideas that have been successfully employed in other countries.
Hon Minister, when you come next time, kindly present this House with a sustainable engagement model. This is the foundation for success. Cope supports the idea of developing and implementing area-based management plans. The mainstreaming of capacity-building across government has great merit.
The Minister must also get on with the building of multilevel partnerships with relevant nongovernmental associations and academic institutions. Cope supports the setting up of an open source database of innovative practices in ... [Time expired.]
The HOUSE CHAIPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Hon members, the noise level is very high. Can we just please lower our voices. I know we should avoid going to sleep because it is late, but let us try and give people a chance.
Mr E M MTHETHWA
Mr W M MADISHA
Mr E M MTHETHWA: Hon Speaker, hon Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, the Minister’s Statement on the Integrated Urban Development Framework engages in the necessary debate on how our country must respond to the planning challenges facing our country in an urban and rural areas. The apartheid spatial, geographic and planning challenges continue today to define the nature and the character of our cities and towns and the urban areas.
However, we require the political will and determination of political leadership to make our country better, one of which we can be all proud. As the ANC, we welcome the framework as it practically demonstrates that ours is not merely just a government that identifies the problem, but is a government that provides solutions to the challenges which face the country and its people.
Hon members, what is contained in this framework, as has been alluded to by the hon Minister earlier on, which we are debating in this House, shows that it is a commitment of the hon Minister and his department to give effect to the ANC’s mission to move this country forward. Subjecting this framework to debate is a clear indication that the hon Minister is determined to ensure that the voices of as many South African people as possible find expression in the final product so that we can proudly say that the framework carries the demands and aspirations of our people.
Today’s debate provides an opportunity for us to engage among ourselves as Members of Parliament and representatives of the masses with the view to contributing to the government’s efforts that are aimed at realising the vision of this creation. It creates the liveability, safety, resources, and efficiency of the cities and towns, urban as well as rural areas that are socially integrated. Economically, it can be an exclusive and a global competitor, where residents can actively participate in our urban lives.
However, we cannot only talk about planning proposals contained in this framework. There is a lot that we need to do, but that we cannot do without talking about the historic development which brought us where we are as a country today. The system of apartheid created central spatial planning for spatial segregation, which was enforced through the Group Areas Act, Act 41 of 1950. Racial spatial separation and influx control of the country under the system of apartheid was defined by a complex segregation through the spatial and urban arrangements.
It is well known that our democratic state inherited the urban areas that are products of apartheid planning, which fragmented and differentiated along racial lines. Various interventions have been made by the democratically elected government to address these apartheid configurations. Despite the initiatives and interventions, the apartheid patterns are still with us.
Confirming this, the President, Comrade Jacob Zuma, in his state of the nation address in February 2013, stated clearly that the apartheid spatial planning still persisted in our country, cities and towns. It is for this reason that we welcome this framework that is going to help us and take us forward.
The ANC welcomes this framework, because it takes the country in the direction of realisation of our objectives of the National Development Plan, NDP, which challenges the country to implement the developmental spatial framework to restore the deficiency in the local system to comply with the development plan.
This framework responds in particular to the NDP, which calls for, among other things – and I will be mentioning them: firstly, we need to tackle the spatial infrastructure, which has perpetuated the exclusive and broadly distorted growth of a Western economic and logistic vision; secondly, we need to unlock the development potential in towns and cities and guide the infrastructure investment and facilitate the co-ordination between different departments and spheres of government in cities and towns.
It is reasonable to expect hon members of this House to embrace this framework, because it provides integrated spatial planning, integrated public transport, integrated sustainable human settlements, integrated urban and rural infrastructure efficiency and land governance, inclusive of economic development that empowers communities and achieves effective urban governance.
We encourage all hon members of this House to consider this framework document, while this document must be read in line with our Back to Basics document, which is aimed at building responsive, caring and accountable local government.
I must say that we are shocked, but also appreciate that most of the political parties have adopted this plan, but what happened this morning caused shock and dismay. The behaviour of one of our members when the hon Minister was briefing us in our portfolio committee was disgusting. To say the behaviour was just disgusting is an understatement. This was while the hon Minister was briefing members of committee on this important document, which seeks to eradicate the legacy of apartheid and move South Africa forward.
This member showed signs of endorsing the very apartheid legacy which we are trying to our best to eradicate. He behaved in a manner which suggests that he embraces apartheid, in particular a white supremacy ideology, which projects whites as superior to African people in this country. This happened after a lot of issues had been raised. Some have been repeated in our earlier speeches in this House this morning. One of the issues that was mentioned was that the hon Minister sent police to the municipality in Limpopo. This is false. I want to reject this, because it has never been tested anywhere; except to appear in the media. I am sure you will agree with me when I say ...
Mr B N BHANGA: Hon House Chair, on a point of order: Who embraces apartheid white legacy in a democratic South Africa? Is it in order to accuse an hon member in a democratic South Africa about embracing the values of apartheid supremacy in this democracy?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (M G Boroto): Hon member, I have no right to ask who, but it is a point of debate that you can take. It is a point of debate; not for this one. Thank you. Continue, hon member.
Mr E M MTHETHWA: I am sure you will agree with me hon member when I say there can be no basis for doubting or rejecting this document that seeks to correct the wrongs of the past. There can be no basis for doubting a document that purports to create a conducive and stable condition for investment that clarifies the investment requirements for each department and sphere of government, that ensures that there are efficient local development processes to facilitate local economic development.
To conclude Chair, let me re-emphasise that, as the ANC, we are grateful that the hon Minister and his department developed a framework which provides a historical agenda for the management of the towns and cities and rural areas that seeks to achieve the overarching development imperatives set out in our NDP and other policies of the government.
Hon Minister, we want to assure you that we will join you in your efforts to move South Africa forward. As ANC Members of Parliament, we commit to working hard to ensure that the framework document is debated in our respective constituencies and with the view to ensuring that all our people can claim this document and use it as a working document that tries to address all what has happened in the past. I thank you, Chair. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
THIRTY-EIGHTH ORDER/ Mr M S MOTIMELE
Mr E M MTHETHWA
CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT IN TERMS OF SECTION 231(2) OF CONSTITUTION – UNITED NATIONS ARMS TRADE TREATY
Mr M S MOTIMELE: House Chairperson and hon members, the United Nations Arms Trade Treaty is a multilateral, legally binding agreement that establishes common standards for the international trade of conventional weapons and seeks to reduce illicit arms. It seeks to reduce human suffering caused by illegal and irresponsible arms transfers, improve regional security and stability, and promote accountability and transparency by state parties regarding the transfer of conventional weapons.
The treaty was adopted by the United Nations General Assembly on 2 April 2013, was signed by 121 states, including South Africa, and was ratified by 53 states. South Africa has not yet ratified the treaty, which will enter into force on 24 December 2014. South Africa participated actively in the United Nations negotiations on the treaty based on provisions of our Constitution, our interest in international standards for arms transfers, our concern about illicit trade in arms, and our capacity to execute our rising obligations.
The state law adviser advised that the treaty is consistent with South African law, and Cabinet approved the ratification of the treaty by Parliament. The treaty shall enter into force for South Africa 90 days following the date of deposit of the instrument of ratification. The Department of Defence and Military Veterans presented the treaty to the Portfolio Committee on Defence and Military Veterans on 11 November 2014. It indicated that South Africa’s existing framework, in the form of the National Conventional Arms Control Act as well as the Firearms Control Act adequately provides for the UN Arms Trade Treaty. South Africa will only need to change the timeframe required to keep record of transactions from the current 5 years to 10 years in order to fully comply with the treaty.
The portfolio committee, having duly considered the treaty, therefore recommends that the House approves the United Nations Arms Trade Treaty in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution. I thank you. [Applause.]
There was no debate.
United Nations Arms Trade Treaty approved.
Mr S P MABILO
Mr M S MOTIMELE
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS – PUBLIC HEARINGS ON SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT GOALS, CLIMATE CHANGE AND RHINO KILLING IN KWAZULU-NATAL, MPUMALANGA AND NORTH WEST PROVINCES
Mr S P MABILO: House Chairperson and hon members, indeed, the Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs conducted public hearings during the month of September in three provinces: KwaZulu-Natal, North West, and Mpumalanga. The focus areas were as follows: sustainable development goals, SDGs, climate change, and rhino poaching.
With regard to the SDGs, we shared the South African position on each of the 17 sustainable development goals raised at the public hearings. Out of the 17, I will mention just three. One is to end poverty in all forms. The second is to end hunger, achieve food security, improve nutrition, promote sustainable agriculture, and ensure healthy lives. The third is to strengthen the means of implementation and revitalisation of global partnerships for sustainable development. In the main, the SDGs are supposed to substitute or replace the United Nations Millennium Development Goals, MDGs, which were adopted in Johannesburg, South Africa,in 2000 and are due to expire next year.
So, in a nutshell, the public hearings briefed the communities ...
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Order, hon members! I can’t hear. Continue.
Mr S P MABILO: Chair, we are dealing with what we call the post-UN MDGs. The question that was posed was the following: What global goals would replace the MDGs? The response is there. The sustainable development goals will replace the MDGs. We are gratified by the fact that considerable discussion ensued at the public hearings. Community members present were able to robustly engage with the subject matter under discussion and gave our negotiators an overwhelming mandate to pursue the 17 proposed SDGs at the next UN discussion.
The second topic was climate change. There was sufficient consensus throughout the public hearings that climate change was a reality, and it is happening now. So, there was a need for us to address the challenges posed by climate change. Overwhelmingly, the participants or community members at the public hearings gave the department the mandate to pursue the climate change response strategy. As we go the twentieth session of the Conference of Parties, Cop 20, which is scheduled to take place from 1 to 12 December in Lima, Peru, the overwhelming mandate was given to South Africa to pursue its climate change position.
The last issue that we dealt with at the three public hearings was rhino poaching. Indeed, the participants, or communities, were briefed that 93% of rhino in the world were conserved in South Africa. We were all shocked about the escalation in rhino killings. The message and the mandate that we received from the public hearings was that rhino poaching was all about attacking our sovereignty as a country. We were required to respond appropriately. Communities also raised their concerns that there was a need for them to benefit from the rhino industry. So, the message and the mandate were loud and clear: We have to act now to stop rhino killings. Thank you very much, Chairperson. [Applause.]
There was no debate.
Mr M U KALAKO: Chairperson, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the ajority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): There was a hand before you, Mr George. I will come back to you.
Mr B D JOSEPH: The EFF objects to the report, Chairperson. We object for the following reasons.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): No, no. You do not have to say that. If you just say that you object, it is fine. It is noted.
Ms T STANDER
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto)
Declarations of vote:
Ms T STANDER: Chairperson, we support that the sustainable development goals are essential to ensure the poor and vulnerable are given the framework they need to lift themselves out of poverty and congratulate the efforts of those who formulated the documents that now constitute the draft for the UN forum to adopt globally next year.
In the poor communities in which I have worked, I have seen the devastation of extraordinary storms blowing roofs off and flooding the only homes they know. Government can lead climate mitigation and adaptation strategies that balance the priorities of people, the economy and the environment by investing in green technology and renewable energy products in all government projects to bring down costs for the broader public, incentivising green business investment to create a cleaner, healthier environment, and ensuring proper spatial development planning to allocate safe land for people to build their homes – as already touched on today.
Poaching has claimed 996 rhino as of today, and further to the recommendations in the report, we need political will to strengthen South Africa’s intelligence capability to disrupt organised syndicates, insist that consumer and transit countries meaningfully commit, protect the sovereignty of our country against armed invasions and rogue visitors who infiltrate our ports of entry, and sustain and enlarge the deployment of the current joint task force in the Kruger National Park.
We have met the incredible men and women who risk their lives on a daily basis protecting our natural heritage.
Afrikaans:
Hulle vat nie nonsens nie. [They do not take any nonsense.]
English:
The spike in arrests is a testament to their success, but they need more support. Laws need to be changed and prosecutors capacitated to adequately prosecute poachers. Promote community-private partnerships like the Nkambeni model to uplift communities surrounding our national parks. Further, the secret panel of experts appointed in January to investigate trade in rhino horn ahead of the 2016 Conference of the Parties in South Africa must be made transparent for the certificate process to have any credibility.
Adopting this report without the political will to implement the recommendations will deem the exercise a complete waste of time and of public money. We request that a progress report is brought before this House in the next six months. I am a firm believer that in South Africa, in any situation ...
IsiXhosa: ... apho kukho injongo, kukho indlela. [where there’s a will, there’s a way.]
English:
The DA supports this report. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms D CARTER
Ms T STANDER
Ms D CARTER: Chairperson, the Portfolio Committees on Water and Sanitation, Energy, Mineral Resources, Environmental Affairs, and others should work in a co-operative and integrated manner.
Cope agrees that Parliament should urge the National Prosecuting Authority to effect changes in the Trespass Act, Act 6 of 1959, to effectively and appropriately prosecute armed poachers and their accomplices apprehended in protected areas. We must support the South African Police Special Task Force currently based inside the Kruger National Park, with appropriate legislation. The national executive must act on this request, as the rhino population is under threat. Cope supports the taking of DNA samples, not only for identification purposes, but also to preserve tissue for genetic diversity.
Cope supports bilateral negotiations with Mozambique to achieve a wide-ranging agreement. The need for government to engage proactively with relevant nongovernmental organisations, as well as community-based organisations, is urgent and imperative. Cope proposed, on several occasions, the need to lift the moratorium placed on rhino horn, look into and implement the rhino and vicuna parallel, harvesting of rhino horns, as well as elephant tusks, and empower rural communities in this process.
Unfortunately, on previous occasions, whenever we tried to hand over a report in connection with the rhino and vicuna parallel, it was returned to us, but Cope will support the report. Thank you.
Mr N SINGH
Ms D CARTER
Mr N SINGH: Chairperson, I rise on behalf of the IFP to support the report – the contents of the report and the very good work done by the committee. I think that going out to talk to our rural communities, in particular, is a very positive move from this Parliament, and I hope we do a lot more of that. It is only when we consult with people in the rural communities, especially those who live around these parks, that we can find sustainable solutions to issues like rhino poaching and other issues.
For far too long communities that reside around parks like the Kruger National Park, Hluhluwe Park, and Umfolozi Park have just been onlookers to fancy cars and 4x4s entering these parks, people paying fees, and the economic benefits of those people visiting the parks were never felt by the communities surrounding them. It is for that reason that we used to get people destroying fences, and also destroying some of the property; because they didn’t see a benefit. This kind of initiative, which brings in the rural communities, which ensures that there is economic benefit for them, will also allow them to appreciate the value of the rhino, the value of the lion, and the value of all other wildlife that we have in these parts.
Sometimes, I think we mistake the interpretation of, and what the environment means to all of us. To a person who is hungry and poor and destitute, when that person sees a bird, a bird is protein, a bird is something that is going to fill his or her tummy. To other communities that have it all, that bird might be considered a bird that will become extinct. So, I think we have to balance what communities want and how they perceive the environment and then the need to preserve the environment with what we, as the haves, have.
Rhino poaching is indeed a serious problem, but I think we need to accelerate our law enforcement agencies and find credible solutions. What is interesting in this report is that they found that people who work for game parks and very rich farmers are complicit in rhino poaching. Sometimes, when vehicles are stolen and hijacked, you think it is the person around the corner that hijacks you, but there is somebody on the twentieth floor of a building directing these young people to go and steal those vehicles so they can ship them to Lesotho and other countries around our border. So, we really value the work done by this committee, but we agree with the hon last speaker, hon Stander, that there has to be practical implementation of the recommendations contained in this report. Thank you.
Mnr B D JOSEPH
Mr N SINGH
Afrikaans:
Mnr B D JOSEPH: Voorsitter, die EVV se posisie is baie duidelik, en ons gaan kort wees. Tans, met die verandering van die planne – die visie en die missie – rondom die ... is dit baie duidelik dat al wat tans gebeur, is dat niks verander nie, behalwe die afkortings en akronieme.
Afrika se ontwikkeling kan nie beplan word binne die voorskrifte van die wêreld nie. Ons visie en missie is nie dieselfde as die wêreld s’n nie.
English:
The multinationals are busy degrading and downgrading our scales of performance across the world. Therefore, the EFF does not support the report.
Mr N T GODI
Mr B D JOSEPH
Mr N T GODI: House Chairperson, we want to welcome this report, and especially the initiative of the portfolio committee to go to the rural areas out there, because, as hon Singh indicated, at least it takes parliamentarians to where communities are and where the problems are.
In the past, it was indeed so that communities that lived next to these national parks were never a partner to the sustaining of these parks. I think there have been welcome changes in terms of how communities are becoming part and parcel of these parks. This does need to be consolidated and advanced.
The APC feels there is one element that might have been overlooked, which is the workers, especially the rangers. We have had interactions with some of these rangers, who indicated that their working conditions, taking into account the dangers that they face, and the critical role that they play in fighting poaching, their conditions of service, it is not worth the risk of their lives. It might, without saying that they do, actually tempt some of them to become complicit with the poachers because there might be material benefits.
As we fix all these other elements that, through time, have lagged behind, I do believe that the issue of the workers, especially the rangers and their conditions of service, does need to be looked at as a very critical element in the fight against poaching. I thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto): Thank you very much. As we do that, let us remind ourselves that we may not cross between the speaker and the Chair. Please, let’s go back to checking our Rules.
Mr S P MABILO
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M G Boroto)
Mr S P MABILO: House Chair, we must indicate that all three topical issues were formally adopted by the portfolio committee, but we are deeply encouraged by the active participation of the members. We are also glad that we have an overwhelming mandate from the community and from South Africa.
Our response, as government, is to deal effectively with the issue of poaching. We have a multidisciplinary approach, one that is all-inclusive. It is comprehensive; it is detailed; it is practical. It includes all the role-players, the key participants being the community itself. What we require is not finger-pointing, but all hands on deck to address the current challenges.
We are also comfortable with the question of the SDGs and climate change, that our strategy is well researched and relevant. We are committed to fighting together to stop rhino poaching. Our commitment is unwavering, and it is a war that we will win. We are confident. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Motion agreed to.
Report accordingly adopted.
Mr F BEUKMAN
Mr S P MABILO
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON POLICE – OVERSIGHT VISIT TO POLICE STATIONS IN NYANGA AND PHILIPPI IN WESTERN CAPE
Mr F BEUKMAN: House Chairperson and hon members, the Portfolio Committee on Police engaged in an oversight visit to the Nyanga and Philippi Police Stations in the Western Cape province on 27 August 2014.
Maybe just to give an indication of the background to this visit, during May, after the new Parliament was sworn in, we received written representations from the Community Policing Forum in Nyanga about certain service delivery complaints. We, as the portfolio committee, then resolved to go and visit the station to see for ourselves what the problems are. The members of the community raised several issues with regard to detectives, visible policing, as well as service delivery and the community service centre. Some of the issues also indicated were illegal shebeens, as well as robberies in the area as a result of drug abuse.
The committee then made the following recommendations. Of concern was the staff shortage at the station, especially detectives. The committee recommended that the matter be addressed by the provincial management and that additional staff must be made available to the station. The committee was also concerned about the lack of a clear crime intelligence capacity at the station. The committee recommended that a sustainable plan be developed to police the N2 highway and that police make available such a plan to the committee. The committee also recommended that force multipliers be used and that the Metro Police be engaged to assist the SAPS with policing in the area.
As a result of these recommendations, the committee then met with the Provincial Commissioner in Parliament on 10 September 2014, and we again brought the Community Police Forum to that meeting where interaction took place and the provincial commissioner gave certain undertakings to implement the recommendations of the committee.
During the same visit, we also undertook an unannounced visit to the Philippi police station, where we had a briefing on gangs operating in the area, as well as the efforts of Operation Combat to deal with the matter. As a committee, we were very impressed by the station itself. The members of the committee reported that the station complied with all the necessary prescripts and regulations in terms of the South African Police Service Act. There was also the necessary filing system in place, as well as a second-hand goods register. The domestic violence register was also up to date. In general, the station was in good hands.
The committee commended the station commander and his team on the state of the management at the station. The committee recommended that it wanted the levels of gang violence reduced and that it should be prioritised. We also indicated that we would visit those stations again to ensure that there was progress.
The visit clearly indicated the importance of community involvement, in terms of a Community Police Forum and the police, to ensure that there is good policing. We support the report. [Applause.]
There was no debate.
Mr B A RADEBE: Chairperson, I move on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:
That the Report be adopted.
Declarations of vote:
Ms D KOLHER: Chairperson, I rise to highlight the fact that often contradictory information is given by the station top structure and the Community Policing Forum, CPF, rather like there is often contradictory information given by the SA Police Service, the SAPS, top structure and police at grassroots level. Indeed, there are common fault lines running through most SAPS stations, and Nyanga and Philippi were no different.
At Nyanga, the CPF told us there were serious difficulties at the station as there was a failure of the SAPS management to move with the times, which has left this station under-resourced because they rely, as do all stations, on the Resource Allocation Guide, the RAG, which is based on census information from the census before the last one.
Meanwhile, the populations of towns and cities are burgeoned, but police stations are frozen in time like flies in amber. There is an area where the RAG allows resources for just 200 000. Now this is the area where the population today is at least double that, and there is an area with a very high number of hijackings of commercial vehicles. The building they work from is a converted bottle store and the problems around the bottle store in 1986 have stayed the same until this day.
We were told that from 2010 to date, this station has been moving backwards, with members who leave not being replaced; even the three officers killed at Freedom Square were not replaced. Their detectives are burnt out and in May, 17 of them decided to book off sick, because of their disgust with unresolved issues on overtime, as they are expected to work abnormal hours for free. On a normal day in Nyanga, there are too few vehicles, while at night the vehicles are parked unused at the station, because there is no-one to drive them.
On 27 May, the CPF and provincial management met. There were promises that they would revisit the RAG. Having seen the band-aid police management – where for example Pretoria sends detectives to Durban for a mass clean-up and arrest of 800, and then fly home, doing the job of a useless KwaZulu-Natal management team – well, I have my doubts that they have. It happened and it is happening at these stations too. They send in units from all over in a flurry of movement, but it was a once-off deployment.
We heard of issues such as telephones not being answered, and once they are answered the vehicles take an hour to respond. It was a relief to hear that they had begun working with the City of Cape Town from 1 September to deal with issues of shebeens and drug houses. The station asked the Cape Town Metro Police to assist them with patrols and the metro is most willing to assist. This is an area known as a murder capital, yet the station is struggling with a lack of resources. They have a satellite station at Samora Machel, but no resources and no men. Perhaps the unit sitting here all week and used to invade this sacrosanct area and beat up opposition Members of Parliament, MPs, should rather have been out there chasing the real criminals. {Interjections.] They have 9 000 dockets to be handled by just 56 detectives, one of them with 600 on his desk.
Finally, we went to Philippi where they had three stolen dockets, with no clue as to who took them or where they had gone. This is what we have come to expect from policing here in the Western Cape. It’s a crying shame that the areas where they most need excellence are ignored by those who prefer to simply pull the political strings in Pretoria. [Applause.]
Mr D L TWALA
Ms D KOHLER
Mr D L TWALA: Deputy Speaker, speaking to the report that has just been presented by our portfolio committee chairperson, hon Beukman, yes, we did undertake a trip to these stations, but perhaps something that one ought to allude to is the fact that the question of crime is much bigger than the police. It is a matter that requires all of us to engage vigorously in a campaign to remodel and re-engineer society ... [Interjections.]
Mr M SINGH: Deputy Speaker, may I rise on a point of order? There is an hon member walking around showing a photograph to everybody. I hope he comes to our side as well. He’s walking around on that side. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, please settle down. {Interjections.] Order! Hon member, proceed.
Mr D L TWALA: Those are problems that we identified and I think if we are to overcome the problems that the chairperson has alluded to in relation to Nyanga, particularly in terms of policing, as I indicated, the question of the re-engineering of society, the question of drugs and alcoholism is a variable that derives from a number of factors, some of whom relate to socioeconomic conditions in the area, joblessness and basically the state of infrastructure in the area, thus lending the community to high levels of crime.
I must say that the task of the police is extremely difficult, as alluded to in the report, which is compounded by the fact that logistically there are shortages in terms of personnel, as the member indicated. These are issues that require a holistic approach in society to, kind of, work our way through to ensure that we address them. I thank you.
Mr J J MAAKE
Mr D L TWALA
Mr J J MAAKE: Hon Deputy Speaker, we definitely don’t differ with anything that has been said in the declarations that have been made. We agreed in the committee on the report. All that hon Kohler-Barnard did was to read some paragraphs in the report that are already in it. There was nothing new, and the fact that she said there were differences between the report of the CPF and the police themselves, is the reason why the committee called the Provincial Commissioner of the Western Cape, together with the CPF.
All in all, since we agree, there is nothing that we differ on. We agree. It’s in the report that there are 25 000 shebeens in Nyanga and that there is a workload of 9 000 cases for the detectives. So, all in all, for the very first time, we agree with the opposition. Thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, those in favour will say Aye!
HON MEMBERS: Aye!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I think the Ayes have it.
Motion agreed to.
Report accordingly adopted.
Mr P G MOTEKA: Deputy Speaker, I think you got it wrong. There were no noes here. There were only ayes.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I agree with you that there were no noes. [Laughter.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION
The DEPUTY SPEAKER
DRAFT RESOLUTION IN NAME OF LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION STOOD OVER
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, there has been some negotiation with the Chief Whip of the Majority Party and other role-players, and the agreement has been reached that we would postpone the debate on this item till after the conclusion of Questions tomorrow, on the basis that the motion as it appears on the Order Paper will be above the line for discussion and debate tomorrow.
The House adjourned at 21:15.
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