Hansard: NA: Questions for Oral Reply; Deputy President Cluster 4: Economics 2. Consideration of request for approval of international agreements
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 17 Sep 2014
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 17 September 2014 Take: 200
WEDNESDAY, 17 SEPTEMBER 2014
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
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The House met at 15:02.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY
START OF DAY
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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY
Question 1:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, the first question has to do with the level of awareness among particularly young people in relation to the Aids pandemic. The hon member wanted to know whether the SA National Aids Council, Sanac, has deliberated on the findings of the Human Sciences Research Council survey that had beenconducted. In this regard we say, yes, Sanac has deliberated on the findings of the HSRC report and in particular has noted with a great deal of concern one of the points raised in that survey that deals with the level of knowledge and awareness among young people.
In response to this concerning finding, the plenary of Sanac has taken a clear and conscious decision on the need to develop what they regard as a fairly extensive communication strategy. The Sanac secretariat itself has been tasked with ensuring that a comprehensive behaviour change communication strategy is developed. As they develop it, they must cost it. That strategyshould be implemented as soon as possible through the various sectors and government departments.
It is expected that they will be able to spread the message, particularly among young people. It is important to highlight that there is ongoing communication on HIV, TB and other social determinants thereof through other campaigns that are currently underway. One of the campaigns that hasbeen very effective, particularly in KwaZulu-Natal,is the Zazi campaign, which focuses on young women and young girls. This campaign was launched in 2013.
Another campaign that we need to note is led by the men’s sectorand addresses issues of violence against women and girls. These and other campaigns are spearheaded by their respective lead departments and civil society groups. These groups are part of the Sanac structure and they work very closely with various communities.
I have also been informed that the Department of Health has already started work on a comprehensive strategy, which will be launched in the near future. Sanac itself continues to mobilise resources to advance this cause and this campaign, particularly on communication. Sanac recently got the global fund to award South Africa a grant for the implementation of the behaviour change strategy that has a special focus on young girls.
As part of all this, and as we all know, there are a number of provincial Aids councils around the country. They continue to raise awareness of HIV and risky sexual behaviour. This includes the campaign that addresses intergenerational sex, which is being well executed in the KwaZulu-Natal province. Thank you, hon Speaker.
Nks M L DUNJWA
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
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IsiXhosa:
Nks M L DUNJWA: Mandibulele, Sekela Mongameli ngempendulo yakho ecacileyo kodwa kula maphulo osele uwakhankanyile, elifana nephulo elibizwa ngokuthi yiZazi Campaignelijongananabantwana abancinci abangamantombazana kunye nelo likhokelwa ngabantu abangootata, ingaba ikhona kusini na imingeni kunxibelelwano enithe nahlangabezana nayo niyiSanac? Ukuba ikhona, ungakwazi kusini naukuyicacisela le Ndlu ukuba nenza ntoni ngayo kuwo onke la maphondo?Ndiyabulela.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, yes, we do encounter challenges, particularly in relation to the lowering of awareness among younger people, particularly at institutions of higher learning, universities and colleges. We are finding that the incidence of HIV is on the rise, which already tells us thatthe communication strategy that we need to embark on needs to be much more rigorous and focused. We need to focus on certain target groups, which is precisely what the Sanac communication strategy aims to do. The Sanac plenary was quite clear on this and I believe that the various strategic interventions that are being made will be able to address these challenges. Thank you, hon Speaker.
Dr W G JAMES
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
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Dr W G JAMES: Hon Speaker, 46% of pregnant women in the Gert Sibande District in Mpumalanga are HIV positive, which is the country’s highest rate. It is one of the 11 pilot sites for the government’s National Health Insurance, NHI,scheme but after the collapse of primary health care in the province, the health department is now under curatorship - something that is long overdue. Will the Deputy President commit to engaging Minister Motsoaledi and reporting back to the House on the mismanagement of healthcare in this particular district and its impact on the fight against HIV and Aids?Of course I am also asking whether the Deputy President is aware of the fact that the HIV rate in this particular region of the world is the highest in the country when it comes to pregnant women. Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, I am able to confirm, hon member, that I am aware of the high prevalence of HIV in the Gert Sibande area and a number of other areas in Mpumalanga. I think it is well known that we face a huge challenge. We have made great strides and have recorded enormous successes in the fight against HIV/Aids but there are quite a number of areas where we face challenges.
The challenges faced by the health sector also compound the problem, as you are saying, but it does not mean that there is a total collapse. In fact, the hon Minister and the Department of Health are fully aware of the number of challenges that our hospital sector faces. What I can say is that measures are being taken to address those. We have a very energetic and focused Minister who takes time to go around to various hospitals. He knows about the various problems that many of the hospitals face and he is taking steps to address those.
I am happy to engage with the hon Minister regardingthe Gert Sibande area and I am happy to bring back a report to this House to address precisely that problem. I am almost certain that the reply that will come through will outline the various steps that the hon Minister is taking, together with his department, to address those weaknesses, because the weaknesses are present in a number of areas. However,we are also recording quite a number of successes. So, I will be able to get back to you next time -in a couple of years - when I come back to answer questions again. Thank you.[Laughter.]
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
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Ms C DUDLEY: Madam Speaker, surveys have found that the prevalence of HIV among women is nearly twice that of men and rates and new infections among young women of 15 to 24 years old were more than four times greater than that of men of the same age. Can we be sure that special attention will be focused on young women and that it will include initiatives to raise their self-value, especially of school girls? Will the findings of that task team be made public and call for public participation? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: My answer to that is yes, the focus will be on young women specifically because they are part of the target group that is vulnerable and at great risk. Sanac is also focusing on this, as is the Department of Health. So, there is no reason thatthe results of the task team you are referring to should not be discussed publicly. There is no reason that they should not be shared because the fight against HIV/Aids has to be a national effort.
As leaders of our people, all of us who are sitting here must get involved in this fight and we must spread the message. If there isany of us who can spread the message effectively, it is all of us who are sitting here. We can all get on the task of spreading the message and addressing this pandemic. Thank you, hon Speaker.
Prof N M KHUBISA
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Prof N M KHUBISA: Madam Speaker, I would like to know from the hon Deputy President what interventionsexist regarding teenage pregnancy because it is so prevalent. A factor in this is older men who entice girls because they do not have money. The issue of teenage pregnancy is major. Is there any intervention programme with regard to that?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: As I said earlier,hon member, through you, hon Speaker, various campaigns have been embarked upon and the one that is recording good results is the Zazi campaign. The other one which is really spreading in KwaZulu-Natal is the one that involves the men’s sector. This one particularly focuses on intergenerational sex and on young womenprecisely to avoid the issue of teenage pregnancy.
We are faced with a challenge because older men, much older men, are preying on young women, promising them all manner of things - money and so forth - and that leads to teenage pregnancies. The campaign in KwaZulu-Natal province is addressing precisely this issue. We believe that as we spread this campaign, we should be able to curb this practice. As we raise the level of awareness more and more among young people, particularly young girls, we should be able to make a dent in the scourge that is now going around.
QUESTION 2
QUESTION 1
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Question 2:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: The Leader of the Opposition, the hon Maimane, asked a question as a follow-up,in a way, to the answer that was given by the Minister in the Presidency to Question 441 on 22 July. He now wants to know whether the Deputy President, as the Leader of Government Business, is able to shed any light on this.
Hon Maimane, as the Minister in the Presidency explained in his reply to this House, Cabinet recently approved the Medium-Term Strategic Framework, as you well know.That strategic framework is for the period 2014-19 and it sets out the priorities for this term of government and President Zuma’s administration. According to the President, he has focused his work in this administration on achieving the objectives that are set out in the National Development Plan, which is now almost being translated into the MTSF.
According to this whole programme, the President has begun a process of meeting with all his Ministers to set out targets. I am involved with the President in meeting various Ministers in his Cabinet. The programme of meeting the Ministers, as Minister Radebe said, is meant to end at the end of November. There has been some delays because the President was incapacitated for some time and we are now going to resume with maximum speed to try and meet the deadline that we have set for ourselves.
Let me place on record that the targets and the performance agreements that the President is going to arrive at are in fact what one would call a mechanism that the President himself - and remember, he appoints Ministers, so it is his prerogative to decide who should and who should not be a Minister - uses for each member of Cabinet to measure their performance. In other words, these agreements are about the relationship between the President and his Cabinet. However, they do not substitute the existing legal and constitutional instruments that have been designed to manage the performance and accountability of members of the executive and their accountability to this House.
To this extent, Parliament holds the executive accountable in terms of the programme of implementation. This programme of implementation really is setout in the strategic plans that every department has - and we are all well aware of these strategic plans, the annual performance plans and, more importantly, the budgets that every department has to adhere to. Every Minister has to stand before Parliament and articulate their own objectives against the backdrop of the budgets they have. These are used and should be used by Parliament to hold the executive accountable.
This is anadditional instrument that Parliament has to hold the executive accountable. Because of our emphasis on increased and better intergovernmental co-ordination, Cabinet will have the opportunity to discuss these performance agreements with Ministers annually. This arrangement takes into account the reality that no department can succeed on its own without tighter co-ordination and within what they do in the departments.
The opportunity, hon Maimane, is there for us as Members of Parliament to hold the executive accountable. These agreements are management tools and accountability tools that the President has with which to hold his executive accountable and make sure that they perform in terms of, firstly, the NDP, the strategic plan and the agreements that have been setup. Our job as Members of Parliament, yes, is to hold the executive accountable and I say let us get on with it and hold the executive accountable.
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
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The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: In the response that was put, it was said, in fact, that it will be at the discretion of the President whether these performance agreements will be made public. So, I am hoping that they do not remain secret. Be that as it may, the President must do the right thing and release these performance agreements to the public.
What, then, should happen to Ministers who fail to meet these performance standards? I can give you a number of examples of such failure but the most topical at the moment is the hon Minister Muthambi, who has basically ignored the Public Protector’s report and has not taken any remedial action. And in the same MTSF, the hon Nkwinti has implemented policies that diametrically oppose the National Development Plan.
So, Deputy President, my question really, if there are Ministers who do not act or whopresent policies that oppose the plan, will you, as Leader of Government Business, recommend that the President in fact fire the Ministers who are not performing? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Maimane, the concept of firing people can become so sensationalised that we focus on it and not on the substance of what people do. Now, what does the President do when he appoints his Ministers? Remember, it is the President’s prerogative to appoint whomsoever he wishes as Minister and he chooses from his own party members and he also chooses from other parties as well, which he has done. His judgment is based on the ability and the capability of those whom he decides to appoint as Minister and, in the end, what we should do is to allow the President to use his own evaluation and assessment processes to assess his Ministers.
This President has been able to assess his Ministers. He has been able to evaluate them and, where it was necessary in the past, he has taken action. That he cannot be faulted on. Let us give the President an opportunity to give his executive the right to work things out. And when the moment comes when anyone of his executives falters, because nobody is perfect, let us then trust him that he will take the right decision. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr N SINGH
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
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Mr N SINGH: Hon Deputy President, thank you for that response. I think there is no gainsaying that the hon President of the country has the constitutional right to appoint members of the executive. I think the challenge comes in when the views of this House regarding government departments, the findings of the Auditor-General on departments and the views that members express on certain members of the executives need to be expressed and actioned. How do these get transmitted to the hon President?
If we left it to the hon President to hire and fire on the basis of terms and agreements that we are not aware of, there could be a bit of a dilemma. It is common knowledge, hon Speaker, that the Auditor-General’s findings on many departments have revealed that although they spend 100% of their budgets at the end of the year, in terms of performance agreements and the performance indicators that they themselves set at the beginning of the year,they are not performing.
So, this either points to fiscal dumping by departments or just to nonperformance. We would like to know what kind of sanctions will be brought. Will the views of this House be taken into consideration when the President considers whether a head of department or a member of the executive should be redeployed? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, hon Singh, you might recall that at his inauguration the President was very clear on the issue of the performance of members of his executive. He was very clear on the issue of accountability. After he was inaugurated, he walked across the road and addressed a number of people, ordinary South Africans, who had come to view the inauguration. At that point he actually did say that he was going to appoint an executive and if the executive did not perform he would take action. That is what the President said. The President also stood here when he opened the fifth administration and said as much. He said that he expects that his executive will perform and they will serve the people of South Africa.
The President is very strong and firm on the question of accountability. He wants his executive to be accountable and, in the end, not only to be accountable to the party they belong to but to Parliament and also, ultimately, to the people of South Africa. That is what the President seeks and wants to see happening. He is going to do precisely that. I have no doubt about it.
Do the views of members of this Assembly matter? Do the views of ordinary South Africans matter? Yes, they do. The President does take various views into account. In the end, let us accept that it is not Parliament that appoints members of the executive. [Applause.] Our Constitution - let us listen to each other - is very clear on this: The President is given the right by the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa to appoint his executive. So, let us not be at war with the Constitution on this issue; let us not be at war with the President on this issue; and let us give him the right and the space to execute his job as the chief executive officer of South Africa. He has the right to do so. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms B P MABE
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Ms B P MABE: I am being provoked again. [Interjections.]Thank you very much, hon Speaker. Hon Deputy President, thank you very much for the response. I am very pleased and quite happy about the fact that you have committed to the timeframe of November, which was a worrying factor because the question, when it originally came, looked as if the President would never give any commitment. We thank you very much for the commitment that it will be done by November, since the signing of these performance agreements will enhance service delivery and will make sure that our people receive quality services as promised by the ANC. Thank you. [Applause.][Interjections.]
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Hon Speaker, I thought this was Question time and not time for some praise-singing drivel coming from the other side.[Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, please take your seat.
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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The SPEAKER
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Speaker, it is in fact part of the challenge that we have seen the same Ministers who have failed the people of South Africa come back into this House. That is the challenge behind this question. We have seen increasing unemployment levels, people simply cannot find work and this is a challenge.
Be that as it may, the Deputy President has in fact not committed to saying that these performance agreements will be made public. So, what I would also like to know relates to that other key document that has been kept quite a secret in this particular government, namely the revised Ministerial Handbook. It gives permission to people to buy very luxurious vehicles with the taxpayer’s money. I am interested to find out when the revised handbook will come to this place so that Ministers do not plunder the public account and can be held accountable to this House. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT:Hon Maimane, I do not want to sound flippant when I say that you will see the Ministerial Handbook when it comes out. [Interjections.] I do not want to be flippant but clearly these things do take time. Yes, it is being revised but as part of that this administration has embarked on a cost-cutting programme on a number of fronts and the President is quite serious about that. That process is underway.
Nothing is being hidden and, indeed, nothing should ever be hidden from this Parliament. Let us accept that a number of processes are underway and the President is leading the executive. The number of programmes that are underway will be outlined before this very House. I am actually surprised that you should think certain things are top secret and are being hidden. We live in a country where there is transparency. So, even the Ministerial Handbook is something that will be made public once it has been finalised. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
QUESTION 3
QUESTION 2
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Question 3:
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Speaker, in response to the hon Julius Malema’s question, there is no correlation between my testimony there before the commission and what the government’s interventions are. I am able to say, however, that government has made a number of interventions. I can count about four interventions of major proportion. The first one was to assist the families of all 44 people who died; to establish the facts about what happened at Marikana; and to address the social and other hardships that they suffered, including economic hardships. These are interventions that have been made. Following the tragedy, President Zuma established a commission of inquiry, which is being led by Judge Farlam, to investigate all these matters. In addition to this, the President also set up an inter-Ministerial committee, which is chaired by Minister Jeff Radebe.
Under the leadership of former Deputy PresidentKgalema Motlanthe, a framework agreement for a sustainable mining industry was entered into by labour, business and government. The agreement seeks to address a wide range of issues. I would like to touch on some of them. They deal with how to accelerate the process of transformation and beneficiation of the metals that are dug out of our soil; eliminating negative and social economic legacies and also empowering mine workers; accelerating efforts to upgrade human settlements in mining towns by all spheres of government; and accelerating implementation processes to transform the migrant labour system.
The process that I have just outlined, which was being led by former Deputy President Kgalema Motlanthe, is now being led by our President. He is going to steer this into what I would see in the end as a major solution.
As stated above, the Inter-Ministerial Committee on the Revitalisation of Distressed Mining Communities was established,led by Minister Jeff Radebe, as I said. The implementation of the presidential package under the guidance of this committee is underway and it is going to focus on a number of areas, such as building, housing and other services, to revitalise mining towns as part of the October 2012 agreement between business, government and labour.
The focus will be on mining areas in Matlosana, eMalahleni, Sekhukhune, Lephalale, West Rand and Mojabeng. In the Bojanala Platinum Complex, the North West provincial government has set aside R462 million for housing projects in the mining area of Marikana. Over the next three years, the North West will provide focused technical support on human settlements and the mix of housing opportunities in the mining areas of Bojanala District Municipality.
The Rustenburg Municipality provides basic services to eight prioritised informal settlements in Madibeng municipality and to three informal settlements. In the period from June to August 2014, the Department of Social Development and the SA Social Security Agency provided support to informal settlements in the Rustenburg and Madibeng Local Municipalities. To further promote improved living conditions for mineworkers, the government is monitoring the compliance of mining companies with the Mining Charter targets relating to the living conditions of mineworkers and to their working conditions. Government has urged companies to meet the 2014 deadline of these targets.
I have reason to believe that various interventions, including the inter-Ministerial committee, which involves a number of government departments, have already started doing tremendous work to try and address the challenges that these distressed mining areas are facing. This is government in action. This is government at work, addressing the challenges that our people are facing. I believe that the government will succeed in addressing those challenges. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr J S MALEMA
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
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Mr J S MALEMA: Hon Speaker, the Question printed here does not capture the spirit in which I submitted my question. I never wrote “tragedy”. I wrote “massacre”. The people there who are changing our Questions must be very careful.
I just want to check: Minister Shabangu said you misrepresented her under oath when you said she characterised the strike the same way you did. It looks like one of you lied under oath. The last thing is this: Why is the Deputy President not accepting that you are responsible for the deaths of the 34 mineworkers who died?You killed them because you were driven by profit and in the interest of defending your shares as the economy security guard in the economy of South Africa!Stop this thing that we must all take responsibility. [Interjections.]We cannot take responsibility for the things we do not know. You are the one who wrote the e-mails and instigated the killing of 34 people. I think you are responsible! Sitting there, your hands have on them the blood of innocent people who died in Marikana. I think it is important for you to accept that responsibility.[Interjections.]
THE SPEAKER: Hon Malema, withdraw the remark that the Deputy President’s hands are full of blood!
Mr J S MALEMA: The Deputy President’s hands have got blood on them - a lot of blood! It is the blood of 34 innocent mineworkers! [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Malema, please withdraw that!
Mr J S MALEMA: I am not going to do that. The Deputy President killed the people in Marikana and he must take ...[Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Malema, if you are not going to withdraw that statement, you have to leave the House.[Interjections.]
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: On a point of order, hon Speaker!
The SPEAKER:Order! You cannot both be on your feet. Unless hon Malema withdraws that statement, he has to leave the House.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: On which Rule do you base that, hon Speaker?
The SPEAKER: Order! Hon Malema, leave the House!
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Before we deal with that, Speaker, can we be guided on the Rules of Parliament and on which Rule is preventing us from saying that Cyril is a murderer? He is a murderer of workers in Marikana. It is a fact! He said there had to be “committed action” in Marikana and he killed the workers. What prevents us from saying that he is a murderer?[Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order! Hon Malema and hon Shivambu, you have to withdraw that!
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: I am not going to withdraw! [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: If you are not going to withdraw that statement, then you have to leave the House. Hon Malema and hon Shivambu, please leave the House on the basis that you will not withdraw remarks that are unparliamentary. You have to leave the House![Interjections.]
Mr D D VAN ROOYEN: Hon Speaker, I rise on a point of order. While leaving the House, the member, the hon Shivambu, showed the middle-finger sign to our respectable Deputy President. Could you please make a ruling on that?[Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order! The hon member is no longer in the House, but obviously it is totally unacceptable and unparliamentary. We will have to deal with it in a different way because he is not in the House.[Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. With respect, the Question was asked; the Deputy President responded; and there are three follow-up questions that we are entitled to. We have speakers who would like to put follow-up questions and hold the executive to account.
The SPEAKER: Thank you, hon Steenhuisen. Hon Deputy President, there was a question and you have responded. The next supplementary question is that of hon Holomisa.
Dr B H HOLOMISA
The SPEAKER
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Dr B H HOLOMISA: Hon Deputy President, would you agree that it goes with logic that those who have been deployed in the mining sector to advance black economic empowerment objectives must commit to fundamental change in the socioeconomic circumstances of both workers and immediate communities for the better? Are you able to confirm that this has indeed been the experience that you and other South Africans can claim, or has it benefitted only those deployed individuals so far? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: In relation to this question, hon Holomisa, I think as a nation we should be guided by what we do largely at the national level. One of the wonderful things that wasdone by the ANC-led government was to come up with a piece of legislation called the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act, which came up with the Mining Charter.
The Mining Charter should really be the guide that should show us the way in terms of what should happen with regard to transformation in the mining industry. If you were to extrapolate from it, you could use it for various other industries as well. It is a path-making piece of legislation. It deals with how workers should be accommodated, their living conditions, how equity should be dealt with, their working conditions, their safety and a whole number of other things, including how the communities that live around mining operations should also benefit from mining.
It is true to say that the Mining Charter, as it was addressed here in this very Parliament, has not really been fully implemented. Indeed, a number of companies have not lived up to the provisions of the Mining Charter. Those who have participated in BEE transactions have, in a number of ways,sought to push the agenda of transformation. In large measure, we often find that because they are minority players in the corporations in which they are participating, it does take a long time to effect the change we would all like to see.
The good thing is that the Mining Charter is there and the government has decided that it is going to monitor compliance with the implementation of the Mining Charter. I take a lot of courage from that. We have a government that is committed to fostering transformation in this industry and in many other industries. We need to be focusing more and more on pushing companies to adhere to the provisions of the Mining Charter. I think in this new administration we will be able to make progress. With the new Ministerthat we have in the mining industry, and as led by our President as well, we will be able to make greater progress. Thank you.
Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Deputy President, Marikana has forever changed the way in whichour people will see the democratically elected government and that relationship. In 1994, most of us voted for Nelson Mandela and he did not disappoint us. Hon Deputy President, have the leaders of the ruling party not betrayed those noble objectives? Will Marikana not always be an example or a monument of collecting vast personal wealth at any cost?
My question is: Will you do restoration? I am not talking about the R425 million that you mentioned and the houses that are being built there butabout more of a psychological issue. How will you restore not only the families of thedeceased but the whole community, given the scars left by an incompetent police force, whose motto is to serve and protect, not to kill and destroy? Thank you.
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Marikana was clearly a very sad moment in the history of our country. It is an event and a tragedy that we all, as South Africans, never want to see again. Indeed, when the President set up the commission, that is what he had in mind: that we should examine exactly what happened with a view to making sure that Marikana never happens again. This he has done so that we can look at the totality of what happened at Marikana and move forward together as a nation. Obviously the first thing we have to do is to heal the wounds that were caused by the tragedy of Marikana and to move on in a practical way; to heal those wounds and look after those who are victims in a number of ways. The government has already started doing that.
The setting up of all the interventions that government has decided on in many ways is testimony to the fact that we want to address some of the causes that gave rise to this tragedy and to make sure that we address the real problems that many communities around the mining areas face in our country; and also to find a way of addressing the migrant labour system. The migrant labour system is really the bedrock of what gave rise to what happened at Marikana. The good thing is that the President is going to lead this effort, even of addressing the problem of the migrant labour system.
So, the answers will be found. Some of them may be difficult but we have to confront them as a country and as a nation, working together, so that we can heal the wounds of Marikana and move forward. Thank you.
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
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The DEPUTY PRESIDENT
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: The Deputy President, I have with me here the very e-mail that you sent. It in fact says here that the terrible events that unfolded cannot be described as a labour dispute. They are plainly, distortedly criminal and must be characterised as such. In line with this characterisation, it says, there needs to be concomitant action to address this situation. In fact, further on it says we are essentially dealing with a criminal act. Would the Deputy President concede today that this e-mail confirms that he personally inflamed the situation? If the Farlam Commission finds any wrongdoing or any contributory role by you at Marikana, will you resign as the Deputy President?
The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon Maimane, earlier Iactually wanted to say that I think it would be incorrect to begin here addressing substantive issues that are being dealt with by that commission. This touches precisely on that. I sat in that commission for two solid days - and I volunteered to go; I was not subpoenaed. I volunteered to go because I wanted to go and tell the truth. The truth is what I said at that commission.
I think as the National Assembly we should be respectful of processes that are underway in other structures or institutions that have been instituted by our government. There is a commission that is currently dealing with this very issue. If I were to answer you again, it would be tantamount to contempt for that commission and as the leader of the opposition you should know that. [Applause.]
So, I will say this: Let us allow that commission to do its work. Let it finish its work. When it has finished its work, then, as South Africans, we can have even broader discussions, which is precisely what the President has asked to do. That question does not arise because the commission is still doing its work. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The hon Maimane put a direct question to the Deputy President: If the Farlam Commission finds him guilty of wrongdoing, will he resign? The Deputy President has not answered the question. Can we please not protect the executive in this House?
The SPEAKER: Hon Steenhuisen, please, let us not undermine our own democracy. Let us not urge this House to be involved in something that is clearly wrong. We have a commission, which was appointed by the President. It is dealing precisely with the issues that have been raised. It is attending to them to get to the point where all of us, as a country, get to know what it is we need to do to take the issues forward. So, I am not allowing that we take this issue beyond what the Deputy President has answered.
The MINISTER OF MINERAL RESOURCES: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The question was disposed of:The Deputy President said the question did not arise because the commission was still busy with the matter. It has been answered directly.
The SPEAKER: Hon Steenhuisen, I am going to ask you to take your seat and allow us to proceed with the last issue.[Interjections.] No, you are just delaying ...[Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, I am not delaying at all. I am saying to you that you are now calling into question whether in fact we may discuss matters before the Farlam Commission. I did not ask you, Madam Speaker, why this question was allowed on to the Order Paper in the first place. It refers to this Farlam Commission. Please, can you get control of your House.
The SPEAKER: The point I am making to you, hon Steenhuisen, is that you cannot push the Deputy President further than what he has said to the House.[Interjections.]Why not? I, as the Speaker and Presiding Officer here, am not prepared to, no matter how much you scream. I am not going to do what you are pushing me to do simply because you are screaming at me.[Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, the hon Maimane’s question does not follow from the original question. It is a new one. Besides ... [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order, hon members! Allow the Chief Whip to be heard!
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: It does not arise from the original question. Besides, the Deputy President cannot anticipate the outcome of the commission. The commission does its work independent of this Parliament and its findings will be made public. We will all respond to it at that point. Therefore, hon Deputy President, ignore the hon Maimane.
The SPEAKER: Hon members, I would like us to move to question number four.
Mr M WATERS: Speaker, if I may be recognised, you said you won’t push the Deputy President for an answer to a simple question. One can only conclude that Luthuli House has called and you are obeying what they have told you to do. [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: You have the right to keep enjoying the joke.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND CORRECTIONAL SERVICES (Mr J H JEFFREY): Hon Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The DA seems to have amnesia. They know that Ministers have to respond to Questions but they cannot be held to answer them. That has been the practice in the House for 20 years. I do not know why in this Parliament they suddenly decide that they can cross-examine Ministers and members of the executive, and that they have to answer the Question directly. They must look back at what happened in the past four Parliaments and not try toreinvent things.[Interjections.]
QUESTION 4
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QUESTION 3
Question 4:
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: [Interjections.] No, I do want to answer. Madam Speaker, I do want to answer. The hon Mahlangu asks:
In view of the National Development Plan’s Vision for 2030, which requires allSouth Africans to work together towards nation-building and social cohesion and theneed for a balance to be found between healing the divisions of the past,broadening economic opportunities for black people in particular andbuilding a sense of inclusion and common purpose among all South Africans, what programmes have been initiated by government in order to achieve this goal and what steps will government take to ensure that in the process of building a cohesive society diverse identities that manifest themselves through cultural practices and languages do not disappear ... [Interjections.]
Mr I M OLLIS: Speaker, on a point of order.
The SPEAKER: Order! What is the point of order?
Mr I M OLLIS: Speaker, it is not the practice in this House to first read the entire Question off the Order Paper ... [Interjections.]
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I was done; I was done!
Mr I M OLLIS: Speaker, the point is that if every Minister reads every Question on that Order Paper today, we are going to waste hours of Question time just listening to the Order Paper. This should not be done.
The SPEAKER: Order! I note your concern, hon member. Please proceed, Deputy President.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon member, I was done. So, there are a number of ways in which government contributes to the promotion of social cohesion. Government invests significantly towards providing universal access, quality health care, education and training, clean water and adequate sanitation, as well as in reversing the apartheid geography of the past and strengthening the social wage. Taking education as an example, 86% of our schools have been declared no-fee schools and over 9 million learners are fed on a daily basis through the National School Nutrition Programme.
Secondly, the economy must grow at least 11 million jobs, which should be created by 2030. Initiatives include supporting local suppliers; the infrastructure programmes and various economic zones to be setup and proclaimed; and the effecting of mass economic and cultural redress. This should include land restitution and redistribution, employment equity, as well as black economic empowerment. All these need to be done to foster national cohesion.
Thirdly, the sharing of common space across race and class must be enabled through instituting sustained community dialogues, improving public spaces and services, and elevating sports, both at community and schools level.
Fourthly, constitutional values must be fostered to help forge a new South African identity. Initiatives that were identified in the Medium-Term Strategic Framework include establishing a constitutional mandate, inculcating the Bill of Responsibilities in learners and reciting the Preamble of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa at school assemblies.
Lastly, all of society must come together to craft and implement a social compact that should help propel South Africa onto a higher developmental trajectory and to build a more cohesive and equitable society. The compact that should be built or put together should outline how each social partner should seek to ensure that the NDP and the vision set out therein is realised. In addition, the National Planning Commission and its secretariat are talking to business and civil society about uniting all South Africans behind the NDP.
Parliament plays an integral part in this whole process and it is called on to join this national effort by ensuring that national unity and economic inclusion remain the strategic goal in its engagements with not only the executive but with various stakeholders and, indeed, our people as a whole. This has to be seen as the national task that all of us have. It is not only the task of the executive or of the ruling partyonly. It should be embraced by all of us, as the various parties in this House, as a common task and as a common vision that we should see realised together. As Nelson Mandela led our nation, we should try and walk in his footsteps and emulate the example that he put forward in terms of building a nation. Let us continue to build the nation that Nelson Mandela put together. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr J L MAHLANGU
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT
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Mr J L MAHLANGU: Speaker, to the Deputy President, thank you for quite an elaborate answer to our Question. The follow-up question that I would like to raise with the Deputy President is: What more needs to be done to give effect to these ideas of building this desired nationhood of South Africa and what work needs to be done to achieve the desired sense of destiny on the subject of social cohesion?
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, I think there are many initiatives that can be embarked on, and the government has already taken the lead in this regard last year. The government held theNational Social Cohesion Summit in Kliptown, to which there was a good response. A number of provinces have already followed up by holding their own provincial summits on national cohesion. I had the privilege of addressing the Gauteng one a few weeks ago. It was attended by a number of people from various walks of life.
Some of the issues that were dealt with were: As South Africans, we should learn each other’s histories; we should appreciate each other’s cultures; and we should try everything we can to learn each other’s languages. We speak different languages but many of us still do not know each other’s languages. Part of the whole process of building a nation and making ourselves socially cohesive is to do precisely that and to appreciate who we are as a people as we promote each other’s cultures.
Indeed, in the end, that is how our people will be able to really testify to whether we are becoming socially cohesive or not. If our people are economically empowered, socially empowered and empowered in a variety of ways to assist each other to move on, then we could say that we have reached a stage where we are becoming more and more socially cohesive. This, as I said earlier, is a national task and every one of us has a responsibility to take on this task and make sure that we fulfil the dream of a united, nonracial, nonsexist and democratic South Africa. It is a task that we must all take on. Thank you very much.
Prof N M KHUBISA
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THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Prof N M KHUBISA: Madam Speaker, to the hon Deputy President, many a times we have seen an emergence and resurgence of racial undertones and currents in certain tertiary institution, where students and workers are coerced to engage in dehumanising activities that do not have a good effect on nation building and social cohesion. What plans have the government got in place to ensure that there is a greater understanding and tolerance with regard to nation building and to students at universities and workers being respected. These are all aspects of the fundamental rights enshrined in our Constitution.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Speaker, hon member, one of the things that the National Development Plan processnoted, particularly in its diagnostic report, was that we remained a divided nation in a number of areas. It noted that we still had a number of fault lines. And some of the fault lines have to do with our origins; with where people come from in terms of region, race, language, gender and age, as well as a whole number of other areas. These are the fault lines that still exist. And we often see them being played out in a number of institutions, be it in the workplace, or at institutions of learning,to which you alluded. And our task, as I have indicated, is that we need to take these problems head on. We need to address them. Our task should be to close those fault lines and continue with the effort of building a nation.
At the government level, there are many programmes, many interventions and many measures that we need to implement. Some of those I have already addressed, in terms of making sure that we empower our young people. Young people at some of our learning institutions need to be empowered and exposed to the very progressive principles that are clearly set out in our Constitution. Our Constitution is a wonderful document and it sets out the principles and values that we, as South Africans, need to embrace and live by. That message needs to be spread more and more.
There are quite a number of tangible and intangible things that we can do. There are practical things that we can do, and some of those have to do withlearning each other’s language, as I have already said, mixing more and more easily, and trying to bridge the divisions of the past. We should be making sure that people get to live wherever they want to live by redesigning the spatial architecture of our country so that many of our people who have always been relegated to places that are far away from where they work should live nearer the cities. This will enable people to mix a lot easier and more often.One of the things that we also have to address is the issue of xenophobia, of course. Xenophobia is an issue that we also need to address as South Africans.
Our Constitution guides us very clearly when it comes to all these. So, we have a plethora of answers and that we can employ to address the fault lines that I was talking about. As leaders, what we have to do is to embark on these strategies and implement the right measures; the ones that will help us build a nation. Thank you very much.
Dr D T GEORGE
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THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT
Dr D T GEORGE: Speaker, delivery in the local government sphere is vital to bridging the spatial divide between local communities, which impinges on the process of building a cohesive society. Yet we continue to see municipalities like Madibeng at the point of complete collapse. Corruption and cadre deployment have brought municipalities across the country to their knees, at the expense of service delivery to many poor communities. Will the Deputy President commit to the removal of cadre deployment in the employment of municipal managers and staff? Thank you.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: The issue of the deployment of people in various positions is clearly a matter that has to be addressed by those people who are closest to the action. At the municipality level, it is the people who are in the council who finally identify and appoint people who should either become municipal managers. They vote for the speaker of the council; they vote for the mayor. All of this is done at the local level.
Now, I am sure you will be the first to confirm to me that in a democratic system and process, those who are closest to the issues that evolve at local level are best placed to identify who should occupy the various positions. Of course we want people who have the capability and the where-with-all required to do the work that will advance the interests of our people. I do not think that you and I, sitting here in Parliament, will ever be able to dictate what should be happening at Madibeng. Let us leave it to the people in Madibeng to determine what should happen there. Thank you very much.[Applause.]
Ms D CARTER
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT
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Ms D CARTER: Speaker, to the Deputy President, in the report by the Statistician-General, Pali Lehohla, the 20-year review of skills and unemployment showed that only about 18% of young black people were currently in skilled employment, mainly because many teachers will still not teach, many unions will still not put the future of the youth before political factionalism and many departmental officials were still not being held accountable. How is government going to address these problems, in keeping with Vision 2030 of the National Development Plan? Thank you.
THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I think if you had listened very carefully to the Statistician-General, you would also have heard him say that these were challenges that emanated from our past. They emanate from our apartheid past. The apartheid past that we have been through has given rise to some of these serious problems. The Bantu educationthat teachers were exposed to debilitates them in the delivery of effective education to young people.
He himself has said - if you are able to listen - that these were things that we needed to address with the greatest of urgency. That is precisely what this government is going to be doing. I know for a fact that the Departments of Basic Education and of Higher Education and Training are seized with this report. They are going to look at it very closely to see what measures and strategies they should come up with,because it does paint a very sad picture. Much as progress has been made in the last 20 years, we need to be making much more progress on the education side. They are going to be examining that report very closely to make sure that we do not see this type of report again in another five years’ time. Thank you.
QUESTION 141: The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS
QUESTION 4: THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT
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QUESTIONS TO MINISTERS
ECONOMICS
Cluster 1
Question141:
Setswana:
LETONA LA DITABA TSA TIKOLOGO: Ke a leboga, Mmusakgotla.
English:
In 2007, the Department of Environmental Affairs commissioned a studyaimed at identifying and determining the number of waste disposal facilities throughout the countrythat were not licensed. Consequently 341 unlicensed waste disposal sites were identified.
At least 139 of the 341 unlicensed waste disposal sites were licensed between 2012 and 2014, and all the remaining 202 unlicensed waste disposal sites are being licensed in thecurrent financial year. The department is working closely with all the provinces, which are the authorities responsible for issuing the environmental authorisations and the wastedisposal licenses, in order for these landfill sites to be regularised.
The department’s approach to waste management is guided by the National Waste Management Act and the National Waste Management Strategy, which seek to ensure the sound, integrated and sustainable waste management practice and implementation in South Africa. The Waste Act is based on the principles of the waste hierarchy, which promote the internationally accepted best practice and are called the four r’s: reduce, reuse, recycle and recover the waste, so that no waste actually ends up at the landfill site.
The Waste Act also provides for the approval of the Industry Waste Management Plans as a tool to promote a sustainable recycling economy by ensuring the creation of jobs, infrastructure, management systems, technologies,as well the market sector in the waste sector. We can say with confidence that South Africa's legal framework for waste management is the most progressive on the continent.
The National Waste Management Strategy, which was promulgated in 2009,has identified eight goals. Of these, goal 3 talks to issues of green economy and sets out ambitious targets for jobcreation and enterprise development.
The new amendments to the Waste Act now propose a radical socioeconomic shift by accelerating the transition towards the achievement of the goals of the strategy and establishing the basis for transformation of the waste sector through a viable recycling economy.
The recycling economy addresses the market failure where waste has been pervasively undervalued and where the “polluter pays” principle was not fully embedded in the mainstream economy. The recycling economy seeks to apportion the right value to waste and to facilitate greaterdemand for recyclable goods and services, thereby producing more jobs and entrepreneurs from this waste.
The recycling economy has been valued as highas R50 billion in its contribution to the GDP of South Africa. We must therefore at this point continue to see waste as a renewable resource and not as something that must be thrown away, which would be futile. Thank you.
Ms J M MALULEKE
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS
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Ms J M MALULEKE: Deputy Speaker, I thank the Minister for the reply. The top priority areas for the department over the medium term include providing support to local government in waste management. What are the measures that have been put in place to ensure that the potential of the waste sector is unlocked so that women and the youth are brought into economic productivity? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: We have a special unit in the Department of Environmental Affairs whose task it is to support local municipalities in regard to air quality, as well as in this area of the work that we do. In that regard, this is the reason that we have opted to be out there in the communities, at municipal level, to help our municipalities ensure that our waste disposal sites are actually regularised. Most of them were not actually regularised, as I said.
In the process, job appointments are made. We have what we call the Youth Jobs in Waste programme, a programme that employs over 3 000 young people in just four provinces, at this point. It is a training programme for young people, where we are actually attempting to make them into artisans – no longer bo malaisha [mere handlers] but youth artisans in waste.
Managing waste is a science. It is not just picking up litter and throwing it away. In the process young women are also employed. The Free State province is the one that has actually started benefitting from this project. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS
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Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, there is unlicensed land, mostly created by illegal dumping, which is costing this country nearly R200 million per annum. Will you and your department not consider implementing stricter laws and regulations to assist local government in clamping down on this practice of illegal dumping? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Maybe I should start by indicating that the management of landfill sites is the responsibility of municipalities,and we are supporting them in this. The licensing is done by the provinces, based on environmental impact assessments, but authorisations on the management are done by the municipalities. What we are doing is actually to help those municipalities.
Yes, we are aware that there are plenty of illegal dumpsites, but we started by first regularising those that are operating and are supposed to be operating under the law. This is part of the process. We will obviously not regularise any illegal dumpsite or any dumpsite that has not been declared at this point.
So, the question here is to emphasise that our people in the communities must be made aware of the fact that there is a need to deal with waste in a particular manner. You do not dump rubbish anywhere; you ensure that you use dustbins. As I said, the four Rs are very useful.
In fact, in the long term, we are working towards ensuring that less waste arrives at the waste disposal sites. So, over the long term, even illegal dumping will no longer happen because people would be recycling their waste and actually retrieving money from it, becoming entrepreneurs and creating jobs from that recycling. That is in the long term - for now, we are not using regulations to clamp down on them. But perhaps municipalities can actually do so. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms J STEENKAMP
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS
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Ms J STEENKAMP: Minister, a recent study found that 72% of landfill sites did not comply with regulations. Furthermore, only 26 of 92 landfill sites complied with the minimum requirements of the management of landfill sites. In light of this, what actions are you, Minister, taking to ensure that more landfill sites comply with the minimum regulations for the management of landfill sites?
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Perhaps I should repeat myself. The very first answer I gave was that we conducted a studyin 2007,the intention of which was to identify the number of waste disposal facilities that were not licensed throughout the country. We do not have to do that every year.
We found there were 341 such sites and helped the municipalities, throughout the country, to get regularisation – the regulation I am talking about is licensing. Of 341 landfill sites, 139 have been licensed in a period of two years. I said the 202 remaining ones were being licensed. [Interjections.]
The earlier question I was talking about relates to illegal dumpsites. Now, an illegal dumpsite is not a landfill site that must be regularised. Those are the ones where we are saying that municipalities must find a way - and we will find a way - of dealing with those. However, we want to ensure that no or less waste reaches landfill sites. The four Rs must apply. Money must come out of that.
We have actually come to this Parliament to amend the law and put a price on waste, so that people can begin to use waste in a manner where they actually see its potential for generating money and for creating entrepreneurs instead of just seeing waste that must be discarded at the waste disposal site. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms C DUDLEY
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS
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Ms C DUDLEY: Hon Minister, my question is in line with that reply. What penalties, incentives or legal action does the department have to enforce compliance? Are they effective or sufficient for the task and what are the challenges in that regard? Are changes to the regulatory framework required? Would this perhaps be necessary? I apologise if I missed these points in your previous answer. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Yes, indeed, I did say thatearlier on. At this point, we are educating the nation. We are licensing the landfill sites to regularise them. In other words, we are first making the entire system compliant so that we will then have a system in place in municipalities,because municipalities are the ones that control the areas where illegal dumpsitesare found. Only then can we say, yes, indeed, we can now move towards further regulation. For now, the regularisation is what we are doing - and that is linked to job creation. Thank you very much.
QUESTION 153: DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE
QUESTION 141 - MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS
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Question 153:
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE: Hon Deputy Speaker, yes, modelling work has been done to determine the impact of the current slowdown on the rate of unemployment. To further respond to the question, a couple of details on the issues identified are the following:
The first one relates to the fact that there is definitely a positive correlation between economic growth and growth in employment. Prior to 2008, for every 1% of economic growth, employment grew on average by 0,8%. If you compare that elasticity with other economies, particularly in emerging markets, this is much higher - even higher than in advanced economies.
The second point, which is related to the same issue, is the fact that the economy created 764 000 jobs in the period between 2012 and 2014. That period coincides with the redoubling of government spending.
Thirdly, it is very clear that slow economic growth means that the growth of private-sector employment is slower. Therefore, moving forward, it is very clear that the focus must be on how we grow private-sector employment.
On the question around the steps identified in the Medium-Term Strategic Framework, government outlines a number of critical interventions to stimulate the growth of employment and the growth of the economy. A range of interventions is proposed in the MTSF. This includes interventions that seek to deal with the binding constraints in the economy. These will relate to how we improve energy security, ensuring that we confront the challenge of electricity constraints. Some relate to a conversation around how we improve the regulatory environment. Some relate to a massive programme to grow infrastructure development.
There is also a very big chunk of the activities in the MTSF that relate to growing the productive sector of the economy. In particular, the first part of it obviously deals with how we grow industrial activity through the Industrial Policy Action Plan and how we accelerate its implementation, as well as the Agriculture Action Plan. Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker.
Dr D T GEORGE
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE
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Dr D T GEORGE: Hon Deputy Speaker, Deputy Minister, our economy is stagnated at 0% growth in the first half of this year and the consensusis that the expected growth for the year is around 1,5%. At this rate, unemployment will rise above the 7 million people who are currently unemployed and the fiscal deficit will widen. How will you finance the widening deficit without an increasing tax base? Thank you. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE: Hon Deputy Speaker, there are a couple of points in response to that. I think the first thing that must be noted is that there is a commission that is currently looking at the tax regime in the country. I would suggest that most of the issues relating to tax should actually wait for the announcement by the Davis Tax Committee, which will probably happen in a month or two from now. Thank you very much. [Interjections.]
Mr N L S KWANKWA
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE
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Mr N L S KWANKWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, has the Deputy Minister taken steps to deal with above-inflation wage settlements? If not accompanied by productivity increases, these could result in the inflation rate moving further away from the upper band of the inflation target and in the end having a negative impact on the economic growth and employment. Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE: Hon Deputy Speaker, when the Minister addressed Parliament at some point, one of the points he made was that the public-sector wage negotiations was a critical area that should be watched and guarded very sensitively. We are very conscious that the issue of the cost of thepublic-sector wage bill is going to be a critical factor if we want to manage our fiscal balance and ensure that we have tighter fiscal management.
Negotiations have not started and until they do start it is very clear that a couple of steps need to be taken. Part of it, of course, is that there are a number of initiatives in government to improve the performance of the public sector, ranging from skills development interventions to looking at how to weed out the corrupt element in the public sector.
Ms S J NKOMO
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE
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Ms S J NKOMO: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Deputy Minister, I think it is a fact that economic growth needs to have a direct and a positive effect on lowering unemployment. Can the Deputy Minister indicate how unemployment is being lowered through long-term methods and not through the Expanded Public Works Programme, which is known to be short-term and not actually addressing unemployment? Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE: Hon Deputy Speaker, I would urge the member to take an interest in and look at some of the core programmes of government. She must look at the extent to which we are driving infrastructure development, the skills development programme, as well as the industrial policy and the industrial plans that we are implementing. Our agriculture initiatives and all of those show a greater focus on growing the portion of the productive economy in the overall gross domestic product. I urge the hon member to look at our Medium-Term Expenditure Framework. Thank you.
Mr D C ROSS
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The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE
Mr D C ROSS: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Deputy Minister, you have indicated very positively that between 2011 and 2014, 760 000 jobs were created. However, in the second quarter, unemployment rose to 36% in the broader definition, joblessness was at its worse since 2008 and the number of unemployed people rose to 7 million, as the previous speakers have indicated. Also, discouraged workers increased by 64 000 people. The biggest job losses were seen in the manufacturing and agricultural sectors.
Now, the simple equation is that investment equals jobs. The government is currently failing to grow our economy, failing to create jobs and failing to attract investment. I would like to know what steps you would take to ensure that the economy stabilises, that investment grows and that jobs are created. Thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE: Hon Deputy Speaker, again, the first point that one probably needs to realise is that one of the major issues that have been identified is actually trying to create a broader consensus in the country around how and where we drive our economy. In this regard there is an initiative, driven by the Presidency, called the Presidential Working Group on Labour. Part of the work they are doing is to look at the individual constraints that are actually binding and preventing the economy from growing. I have already identified a number of those areas. These are not short-term but long-term measures and out of those initiatives consensus is emerging around what kind of interventions need to be made.
In addition to that, I seriously urge members to look at what we have in our MTSF document, because we outline concretely the interventions in growing and driving industrial development. We talk about how agriculture development is being driven and about a whole range of other interventions to promote private investment. Thank you.
QUESTION 142
QUESTION 153
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Question 142:
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Hon Deputy Speaker, the question is number 142. My response is as follows: The department implements projects under the auspices of the Expanded Public Works Programme. Most of the work opportunities created are short-term in nature because they are linked to the lifespan of projects. The following are implemented by the department, and the actual number of work opportunities created under each programme for the specific target groups are also stated. I will go through them.
However, I need to indicate that there are some programmes here that are actually long-term in nature. We have both long-term and short-term programmes. The long-term ones are Working on Fire and Working on Waste -those two programmes in particular. There is a programme called Greening and Open Space Management, which will employ 2 281 people in total this year, 1 350 of which are women and 1 440 are young people.
Another programme of ours is People and Parks, which employs 650 people, of which 322 are women, 417 are young people and 24 are people with disabilities. Regardingthe previous programme, Greening and Open Space Management, I must mention that 70 of those are people with disabilities. Thewildlife economy programme employs 1 186; 521 of those are women, 1 013 are young people and three are people with disabilities.
Working for Land employs 270 people; 166 are women, 122 are young people and 17 are people with disabilities. Working for the Coast has employed 3 804; 2 382 are women, 2 401 are young peopleand 165 are disabled. Working for Water employs 10 050; 5 401 of those are women, 6 579 are young people and 79 are people with disabilities.
Working for Wetlands employs 279 people; 154 are women, 159 are young people and fourare disabled. Working on Fire employs 5 496; 1 621 are women; 5 201 are young people and 126 are disabled. Working on Waste employs 5 596 people; 3 418 are women,4 486 are young people and 114 are disabled. Thank you. [Time expired.].
Mr S P MABILO
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS
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Mr S P MABILO: Thank you, hon Minister, for the comprehensive and detailed response. However, I would like to aska follow-up question. Noting the department’s involvement in the Expanded Public Works Programme in relation to generating green jobs, as well as the Natural Resources Management Programmeshaving significantly increased the department’s capacity and responsibility to create employment, the question is: How have skills been developed through these programmes in order to facilitate green and inclusive economic growth? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Hon Deputy Speaker, green jobs are theway to go for us. Indeed, the skills development programme is thegreater embodiment of all our Expanded Public Works Programme initiatives. We do train people and this is why we say that these are job opportunities because people who leave these jobs willhave been adequately and sufficiently trained to be able to move into other job opportunities that may arise.
In this area, and as I mentioned earlier on, just as an example, is the Youth Jobs in WasteManagement programme. That is a green programme because the objective of that programme is to green our operations and ensure that waste disposal management becomes a green issue.
Therefore, the people whomwe are training - I said we called them artisans, or waste artisans - are not rubbish loaders. They are artisans because they are being trained scientifically on how to deal with the weighing and separation of waste. They learn what kind of waste is degradable, biodegradable and so on, so that they are able to manage a landfill site in a scientific manner. People like thisare already operational in the Free State province.We launched this programme in the entire Free State province. We are also working in other provinces.
In its nature the Working for Water programme is a green programme because it helps us to restore our water sources, with all the alien and invasive species that we dig out. By the way, we also make furniture;very goodfurniture. Hon members, you can come and buy furniture from our factories - good furniture, including chests and tables and everything else you need. Thank you.
Mr M HLENGWA
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS
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Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, I had hoped that you would give us the timeframes for these jobs that you speak about because to say “sustainable” isa very broad and open-ended sort of analysis of what these jobs entail. We know that these EPWP jobs are very shortterm. They may last a week, or two weeks, and they are hardly going to make a meaningful impact onjob creation and the high levels of unemployment.Hon Minister, could you please take us through the average timeframes of the jobs you are talking about?
Secondly, when you speak about skills transfer, and in light of the short-termnature of these timeframes, are you satisfied that the skills transfer you are talking about is actually effective? Have the people to whomthese so-called skills have been transferred really been givenan opportunity to progress?
Lastly, what linkages doyou have with local government toensure that these jobs actually do make a meaningful contribution? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Let me start with the first issue, which is sustainability. I said that some of the programmes and projects that we are talking about are longterm, like Working on Fire.There is always theneed for a stand-by team to put out fires. Some of us may not know this butthose yellow bombers that you see flying all over, they are putting outfires. I am talking about the aeroplanes, helicopters and so on that have the word “fire” written in red - they are from this group.This team is always there. They are never not there. Thatprogramme is a long–term one.
There are, however, shorter programmes. [Interjections.] If you listen, you will become a little more intelligent. In short-term programmes like Work for Wetlands, that is where training happens. To reverse a dry wetland from being dried up to a point where there is water flowing and oozing out of the ground does take scientific skill. People are being trained for such tasks.
A project like this would take, shall I say,abouteight months to a year. There are programmes that take up to three years; some up to a year and two years. I did say that we are the first to acknowledge that these are interventions andprogrammes that are intended to get people doing something while the programme that the Deputy Minister of Finance was talking aboutisbeing realised.
We do manufacturing,as I have said.For example, the project that the President announced, the furniture making, involves themanufacturing of school desks. The training that those people receive means that when they leave the project, they can actually open their own factoriesimmediately,the following day or anytime, because they have been trained.
The school desks that the President mentioned here in this House, with whichthe Department of Basic Education is furnishing schools, are from that programme. Beautiful stuff is being made by those people. I think we shouldall be proud. We must be proud of them and not run them down. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms J STEENKAMP
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS
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Ms J STEENKAMP: Hon Deputy Speaker, Minister, if you spend more money on EPWP wages than on the contractors used to implement the projects, would the EPWP not be more successful if you created real and sustainable jobs?
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Somebody must still do the clearing of the wetlands. Who is that person? Somebody must go and do the management of landfill sites. Who is that person? Somebody has to work there. We are working and we are getting our people to work there. [Applause.]
When you spend more money doing what you are doing, we shouldalso calculate the value of what comes out of that.I see young men and women, oozing confidence. They are trained in leadership, especially the Working on Fire team. They are confident because they are now no longer unemployed; they have bread to take home. They have been trained and they are continuing to tell us good stories. I mean, you see them everywhere!So, we do think that these are important programmes.
Yes, we have to create sustainable jobs.Earlier on, the Deputy Minister of Finance told us about the long-term programmes. It is not the only programme that we run. The question that was asked was about the EPWP. I am answering the EPWP question. Hon members, you can go and ask about the permanent jobs that we are creating and in the next sitting, when we have to answer, we will come with that list as well. Thank you.
Mr M L SHELEMBE
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS
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Mr M L SHELEMBE: Hon Deputy Speaker, mine is just a follow-up question to the hon Minister. Noting that rhino poaching in South Africa continues, according to the statistics... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Allow the member to find his bearings. Can he not find them? [Interjections.]Sorry, hon member. Hon Carter, please proceed.
Ms D CARTER: Hon Deputy Speaker ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Your assistance did not produce the results.[Laughter.]
Ms D CARTER
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The DEPUTY SPEAKER
Ms D CARTER: Hon Deputy Speaker, I am just defining “sustainable employment”: Sustainable employment usually means advancing beyond low-paying, entry-level and short-term employment. My question to the hon Minister is: How do the Ministry and the department define whatthey consider to be sustainable employment opportunities? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Deputy Speaker, the question that was asked was aboutsustainable employment opportunities. You do not get sustainable employment opportunities where there is sustainability as a concept. There needs to be permanency. So, the job opportunities that we are being asked about here and the question areabout the EPWP as it goes further. I answered that.
The EPWP isshortterm in nature. Sustainable development opportunities would be those that are under the EPWP; those that I have described. Thank you.
QUESTION 143
QUESTION 142
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Question 143:
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: [Interjections.] I do not know what you are saying ... [Interjections.] ... but I am going to answer. The response to Question 143 is as follows: The atmospheric emissionslicenceis the main tool that is used to implement emissions standard compliance for significant emission sources, which include all megacompanies. Since 2005, metropolitan cities, districts and provinces have been capacitated to undertake this function, as required by section 36 of the National Air Quality Act.
Why 2006? It was in 2006 when the programme of the devolution of functions and assignment to municipalities was brought in. Furthermore, a dedicated unit previously responsible for this function in the department was converted to a support or services unit to ensure efficiency in the atmospheric emissionslicensing function. This unit provides continued capacity-building and assistance in the processing of atmospheric emissions licence applications. Moreover, this unit works with environmental compliance and enforcement units in all air quality-related inspections and enforcement activities. The same applies to part (b) of the Question because the same measures we applyto the privatesector are appliedeverywhere else.
With regard to municipal compliance, the department works with municipalities in their preparation of air-quality managementplans, which are integral components of theirintegrated development plans. These plans ensure the progressive attainment of air-quality standards, taking into account the municipalities’ current air-quality and developmental activities. Thank you very much.
Ms H B KEKANA
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS
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Ms H B KEKANA: Hon Minister of Environmental Affairs, my follow-up question is as follows: The department’s Medium-Term Strategic Framework outlinesthe provision of support to local government in areas such as air-quality management. With regard to monitoring and evaluating this support, has an impact assessment been done on the improvement or otherwise in the quality of air since programmes of support were introduced? If so, what is the evaluation of this impact assessment initiative?I thank you.
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Hon Deputy Speaker, yes, indeed, we continue to do this assessment. As I indicated, we have a unit that has been set up and converted. By the way, this is the unit that used to do the work of air-quality management compliance control. Since then the function has been assigned and delegated to provinces and in particular to municipalities, where it belongs. This unit remains, so it is important to keep emphasising itswork. This unit’s intention is to continue supporting municipalities, to evaluate the work they do and to train them. It is support machinery.
However, there is another unit: the compliance unit – our Green Scorpions.Water and Sanitation has the Blue Scorpions; we have the Green Scorpions.
Sesotho:
Di a loma.
English:
They go wherever there is noncompliance and atmospheric pollution. They really work hard toensure that compliance happens. We are very proud of the work they are doing. They have even been to the private sector. They go wherever they are called and wherever they detect any deviation from the law or noncompliance. In the same vein, they also support municipalities. Thank you.
Mr T Z HADEBE
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The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS
Mr T Z HADEBE: Minister, I see the ANC has conveniently left Eskom, one of the biggest contributors of carbon emissions, out of the equation. In light of air-quality standards in the country, does Eskom currently comply with this sector’s standards? If it does comply, when last was such an air-quality check done on Eskom, and if it does not comply, what are you as the Minister doing to ensure that Eskom complies with the set air-quality standards and by when will Eskom be compliant? Thank you, Deputy Speaker. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Hon Deputy Speaker, with regards to Eskom, it is important that we discuss this question in the portfolio committee so that we do not listen to rumours. What is fact? The facts are ...[Interjections.] I always say that if you listen, you will become a bit more intelligent. [Interjections.]
What is applicable now is that Eskom’s facilities are being monitored like every other facility that gets monitored. We did indeed find that some of the facilities, especially two in Mpumalanga province, were not compliant - just as we have found many other noncompliant facilities, including in the private sector as well. What do we do? Naturally, in South Africa, which is also what the law says, administrative justice is applied. We told Eskom to tell us when they were going to become compliant and to give us their plans. They gave us those plans. Welooked at and aligned those plans and they are now moving towards that compliance. We are monitoring them on a continuous basis. Thank you very much.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS
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Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon Minister, the areas of Merewent, Clairwood, Jacobs, Lamontville,Austerville, Brighton Beach and the Bluff are all surrounded by industries:Engen,Shell SA Refining and BP Southern Africa,known asSapref; Bayer and Mondi. There appears to be very high levelsof lung infection and cancer-related deaths in those areas. Hon Minister, can you please advise whether a survey has been conducted? If not, can we have a survey done so that we can address the issues that concern the communities? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Hon Deputy Speaker, we have a few areas in the country where air quality is still not up to standard. Remember, we have actually finalised the standard setting for air quality in the country. The eThekwini area is one of those areas. The East Rand in Gauteng is another such area, while the Waterberg is also one of the areas that we have our eyes and ears on. Certain companies have been identified but we are working with them through the administrative justice system, which I spoke about earlier, in order for them to improve their facilities so that there can be an improvement in air quality.
We are a responsible department; we want sustainable development. Sustainable development has three pillars: health for our people, the economy and the environment. When there is a balance of those three elements, that is called sustainable development. It is not a case of us priding ourselves in saying that we have closed down a plant when in fact jobscould have been lost. We are working with those companies in order for them to improve their facilities so that there can be compliance in terms of sustainable development and true air quality in our country. Thank you.
Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS
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Mr J A ESTERHUIZEN: Hon Minister, Sasol has spent a lot of money on improving their profitability but this has been at the expense of social responsibility to the environment and human health in general. We now hear that Sasol, one of this country’s biggest polluters,has taken this government to court in a bid to challenge our new air pollution laws and have them repealed.
Sasol appears to comply in the USA but prefers to continue polluting Africa and, more particularly, South Africa. If Sasol won this legal challenge, it would set this country back 20 years in its attempt to curb toxic emissions and it will pave the way for other big polluting industries to follow. How will your department react if Sasol should win this case? Hon Minister, what are you and your department doing to further protect South Africa from such ruthless profiteers who care nothing about our environment or the health and wellbeing of our people and who legally challenge any law that stands in the way of their bottom-line profits? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS: Hon member, thank you very much for the question. Yes, let me first confirm that we are in court with Sasol. However, at the same time we are talking to them to try and find a solution to this problem. I must also say that Sasol has been one of the most important participants in actually making inputs with regard to the air-quality standards that we currently have in our legislation. They have really contributed a lot.
We are saying Sasol cannot say it does not want to be compliant, because it is necessary for it to comply. Anyway, we foresee a situation where we cannot lose this court battle if it did go ahead. As I said, we are continuing to talk. If it goes ahead, we do not see ourselveslosing this case. There is so much to it and I do not want us to talk about the case now. Rather, it is safe to say that we are going to ensure that in this instance there is compliance. Again, that compliance will and continues to happen in the context that I alluded to earlier on –the context of administrative justice. We are in court with Sasol and we will cross that bridge when we get to it, but post that fact,there should definitely be compliance.
With regards to profiteering, I think everyone else can make a profit in the country. However, from where we stand, what is important for us is that any and every company must comply with the environmental laws. If we do not do that, we shall be increasing the health budget because people will be suffering from lung cancer and so on. Therefore, it is our obligation to continue to look at that. As people make money, they must comply with our laws. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER:Order! Hon members, Question time and time for supplementary questions and replies are over. Outstanding replies received will be printed in Hansard.
NOTICES OF MOTION
QUESTIONS
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NOTICES OF MOTION
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Sir, please hold on. Allow the member at the back to speak first and then you will follow after him.
Mr A M MUDAU: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the Housedebates the centrality of constituency work in linking the legislative arm of the state with the people.
Mr K P SITHOLE
Mr A M MUDAU
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Mr K P SITHOLE: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the Housedebates the incremental rise of informal settlements around the country.
Ms D CARTER
Mr K P SITHOLE
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Ms D CARTER: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the Housedebates the need for government to speed up the re-engineering of South Africa’s townships so that they can become desirable and dynamic residential areas providing the necessary amenities and enhancing the quality of life and safety of those who live and work there.
Ms S J NKOMO
Ms D CARTER
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Ms S J NKOMO: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the Housedebates the safe and secure roll-out of smart cards to our citizens, as well as the efficacy of the system of checks and balances toensure that smart-card fraud doesnot occur.
Ms G N NOBANDA
Ms S J NKOMO
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Ms G N NOBANDA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the Housedebates strengthening and continually transforming the legislatures to ensure that they contribute to the empowerment and participation of our people.
Mr M WATERS
Ms G N NOBANDA
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Mr M WATERS: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the House-
(1) notes the audio recording of the hon B A Mabe of the ANC calling the leader of the opposition, Musi Maimane, a “bloody bastard”;
(2) censures hon Mabe immediately for disrespectful and unparliamentary remarks;
(3)requests the Speaker to refer the matter, along with the audio recording, to the Powers, Privileges and Immunities Committee to investigate in terms of National Assembly Rule 194;and
(4) requests the committee to report on its findings by 1 November 2014.
Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM
Mr M WATERS
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Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the Housedebates the failure of the state to settle a debt of R600 million owed to the Auditor-General.
Mr M L SHELEMBE
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM
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Mr M L SHELEMBE: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the House-
(1) debates the issue of Lonmin, which continued to pay R2 billion as dividends to its shareholders in this financial year, despite the fact that miners do not have proper housing and basic services and many of them live in squalor in informal settlements;
(2) further debates the issue of the community around Lonmin living in squalor with no decent houses, schools orclinics and with unserviced chemical toilets.
Mr M HLENGWA
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Mr M L SHELEMBE
Mr M HLENGWA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the Housedebates the high percentage of unemployment, specifically among the youth, and what active steps government and the private sector should be taking to alleviate the problem.
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE
Mr M HLENGWA
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Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the Housedebates why Parliament sees fit to spend hundreds of thousands of rands on hosting workshops next week at expensive resorts and hotels, when the premises of Parliament is available for such purposes and this during difficult economic times and while many of our people face grinding poverty and despair.
Mr M F S DE FREITAS
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE
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Mr M F S DE FREITAS: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the House-
(1) debates the efficacy and impact of the Gauteng Advisory Panel onthe socio-economic impact of e-tolls and the mass rejection of the system by Gauteng residents;
(2) calls on the Minister of Transport to make a statement on this matter as soon as possible in terms of Rule 106(1), clearly outlining her position.
Mr N SINGH: Deputy Speaker, may I rise on a point of information and order?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! What is that about, hon member?
Mr N SINGH: I think the hon member from my party, the hon van der Merwe, moved a motion without notice when we were dealing with notices of motion. Can that motion be considered when we are doing motions without notice and be put to the House?
THE DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, you can do that. I do not know how that escaped me.
Mr M S MABIKA
Mr M DE FREITAS
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Mr M S MABIKA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the Housedebates the impact on our economy of the foreign nationals entering the country and their failure to contribute to any taxation.
Ms M F NKADIMENG
Mr M S MABIKA
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Ms M F NKADIMENG: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the Housedebates the central role of educators in achieving the objectives of transforming education and improving the quality of education.
Ms M C MANANA
Ms M F NKADIMENG
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Ms M C MANANA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the Housedebates addressing the linkages and current trend of trafficking young people, and women in particular, for the transportation of drugs.
Ms D CARTER
Ms M C MANANA
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Ms D CARTER: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the Housedebates the need to empower and uplift rural communities by using the rhino and vicuña parallel.
Mr S G MMUSI
Ms D CARTER
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Mr S G MMUSI: Ke a leboga motlotlegi Motlatsa Mmusakgotla, mo kokoanong bosetšhaba e e latelang Ntlo e e tlile go ngangisana le go ganetsana ka mekgwa ya go tsenya tirisong, go tsamaisa le go ela tlhoko tlhabololo ya metshanmeko. Mo boemong jwa ANC ke tsitsinya jalo:
Mr J VOS
Mr S G MMUSI
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Mr J VOS: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the Housedebates the negative impact of the new visa regulations on the tourism industry and the benefits to be achieved bythe introduction of electronic visas as an alternative to streamline tourist facilitation and improve security because clearly,while much has been said by the government on this subject, not enough is being done.
MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
NOTICES OF MOTION
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MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Deputy Speaker, my apologies. My previous motion should have been, “I move on behalf of the IFP that the House debates ...” It was not a notice of motion. But I have a notice of motion, if I can read that now.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The IFP must make up its mind. It is clearly undecided.
Mr N SINGH: Hon Deputy Speaker, I think we have made up our mind. On a point of correction, the hon member indicated that the previous motion was a notice of motion. She now has a motion without notice that she wants to move inthe House.[Interjections.][Laughter.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: This is very close supervision, Chief Whip.[Laughter.]
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Very much so!
CONGRATULATIONS TO SPRINGBOK CAPTAIN JEAN DE VILLIERS AND BRYAN HABANA ON THEIR ACHIEVEMENTS
(Draft Resolution)
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House–
- notes thatat the weekendSpringbok captain Jean de Villiers reached a career milestone of a 100 tests played for the Green and Gold;
- further notes that he becomes only the fifth South African to have achieved this feat;
- recognises that only a week earlier, his teammate Bryan Habana also reached thathistoric career milestone;
- acknowledges that it took De Villiers 11 years and 10 months to reach this achievement and that during this time his contribution to South African rugby has been immeasurable; and
- congratulates both Jean de Villiers and Bryan Habana on reaching this milestone and applauds them for the significant contributions they continue to make to the success of the Springbok rugby team.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE
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DA CONDEMNS NA SPEAKER, BALEKA MBETE, FOR ADDRESSING CROWD OF ANC SUPPORTERS IN PRECINCT OF PARLIAMENT
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House–
- notes that at the next sitting of the House the DA will table that this House condemns the NA Speaker, Baleka Mbete, for addressing a crowd of ANC supporters in the precinct of Parliament on 16 September 2014;
- agrees that this action demonstrates the Speaker’s contempt for the independence of Parliament as a democratic institution;
- acknowledges that this action on the part of the Speaker further politicises her role; and
- condemns the Speaker for making use of a state-owned police vehicle to address an ANC crowd inthe precinct of Parliament.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, with regard to the previous motion, I did not ask whether there was an objection to it. Is there any objection to the previous motion?
Hon MEMBERS: No!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The previous motion is therefore agreed to. Hon members, regarding the motion that has just been read, is there any objection?
Hon MEMBERS: Yes!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The motion is objected to and therefore it falls away.
Mr B A RADEBE
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION
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CONGRATULATIONS TOBANYANA BANYANA ON WIN AGAINST BOTSWANA
(Draft Resolution)
Mr B A RADEBE: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House–
- notes that Banyana Banyana thumped Botswana 10 – 0 in a friendly match on Saturday, 13 September 2014, at the Royal Bafokeng Stadium;
- further notes that the striker, Portia Modise, scored five goals in this match, taking to 97 her number of goals in 113 appearances for Banyana Banyana;
- acknowledges that the coach, Vera Pauw, is doing a wonderful job in preparing South Africa’s women’s soccer team for the African Women’s Championship in Namibia next month; and
- congratulates the coach, Vera Pauw, and Banyana Banyana on this victory and wishes them well in their next match against Ivory Coast.
Mr B A RADEBE
Mr B A RADEBE
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CONDEMNATION OF ATTACKS ON PARAMEDICS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr B A RADEBE: Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House–
- condemns the attacks on paramedics thattook place on 8 September 2014 in Ekurhuleni while treating a wounded domestic violence suspect in Tsakane;
- notes that this attack came barely a week after other emergency personnel crew members were assaulted in Daveyton, also in the East Rand;
- further notes that an ambulance and five police vehicles on the scene suffered extensive damage and, subsequent to that, for safety reasons, the ambulance crew urgently had to load and ferry the patient to Pholosong Hospital without any proper treatment;
- believes that the attack on paramedics makes it difficult for them to assist in emergency situations, when they risk their lives to save others; and
- calls on all members of the community to act with restraint and provide support to those who provide an essential service to our communities.
FIRST TO THIRTEENTH ORDERS
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MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT OF PROTOCOL AMENDING AGREEMENT BETWEEN GOVERNMENT OF REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND GOVERNMENT OF REPUBLIC OF INDIA FOR AVOIDANCE OF DOUBLE TAXATION AND PREVENTION OF FISCAL EVASION WITH RESPECT TO TAXES ON INCOME IN TERMS OF SECTION 231(2) OF CONSTITUTION
CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT OF AGREEMENT BETWEEN GOVERNMENT OF REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND GOVERNMENT OF COOK ISLANDS FOR EXCHANGE OF INFORMATION RELATING TO TAX MATTERS IN TERMS OF SECTION 231(2) OF CONSTITUTION
CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT OF AGREEMENT BETWEEN GOVERNMENT OF REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND GOVERNMENT OF BELIZE FOR EXCHANGE OF INFORMATION RELATING TO TAX MATTERS IN TERMS OF SECTION 231(2) OF CONSTITUTION
CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT OF AGREEMENT BETWEEN GOVERNMENT OF REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND GOVERNMENT OF BARBADOS FOR EXCHANGE OF INFORMATION RELATING TO TAX MATTERS IN TERMS OF SECTION 231(2) OF CONSTITUTION
CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT OF AFRICAN TAX ADMINISTRATION FORUM AGREEMENT ON MUTUAL ASSISTANCE IN TAX MATTERS IN TERMS OF SECTION 231(2) OF CONSTITUTION
CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT OF AGREEMENT BETWEEN GOVERNMENT OF REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND ARGENTINE REPUBLIC FOR EXCHANGE OF INFORMATION RELATING TO TAX MATTERS IN TERMS OF SECTION 231(2) OF CONSTITUTION
CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT OF AGREEMENT BETWEEN GOVERNMENT OF REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND GOVERNMENT OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA TO IMPROVE INTERNATIONAL TAX COMPLIANCE AND TO IMPLEMENT FATCA, ANNEXES THERETO AND MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING IN TERMS OF SECTION 231(2) OF CONSTITUTION
CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT OF PROTOCOL AMENDING AGREEMENT BETWEEN GOVERNMENT OF REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND REPUBLIC OF TURKEY FOR AVOIDANCE OF DOUBLE TAXATION AND PREVENTION OF FISCAL EVASION WITH RESPECT TO TAXES ON INCOME IN TERMS OF SECTION 231(2) OF CONSTITUTION
CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT OF AGREEMENT BETWEEN GOVERNMENT OF REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND GOVERNMENT OF KINGDOM OF SWAZILAND ON MUTUAL ASSISTANCE AND CO-OPERATION AND PREVENTION OF FISCAL EVASION WITH RESPECT TO VALUE-ADDED TAX IN TERMS OF SECTION 231(2) OF CONSTITUTION
CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT OF SOUTHERN AFRICAN DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY AGREEMENT ON ASSISTANCE IN TAX MATTERS IN TERMS OF SECTION 231(2) OF CONSTITUTION
CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT OF AGREEMENT BETWEEN GOVERNMENT OF REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND GOVERNMENT OF PRINCIPALITY OF MONACO FOR EXCHANGE OF INFORMATION RELATING TO TAX MATTERS IN TERMS OF SECTION 231(2) OF CONSTITUTION
CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT OF AGREEMENT BETWEEN GOVERNMENT OF REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND GOVERNMENT OF PRINCIPALITY OF LIECHTENSTEIN FOR EXCHANGE OF INFORMATION RELATING TO TAX MATTERS IN TERMS OF SECTION 231(2) OF CONSTITUTION
CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT OF AGREEMENT BETWEEN GOVERNMENT OF REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND GOVERNMENT OF KINGDOM OF LESOTHO ON MUTUAL ASSISTANCE AND CO-OPERATION AND PREVENTION OF FISCAL EVASION WITH RESPECT TO VALUE-ADDED TAX IN TERMS OF SECTION 231(2) OF CONSTITUTION
There was no debate.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, we will now take the first to thirteenth orders together as they appear on the Order Paper. These are requests for approval by Parliament of international agreements on tax matters in terms section 231(2) of the Constitution. Are there any objections to the approval of these international agreements as they appear on the Order Paper? [Interjections.] There are no objections.
Protocol amending the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Republic of India for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with Respect to Taxes on Income approved.
Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Cook Islands for the Exchange of Information Relating to Tax Matters approved.
Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of Belize for the Exchange of Information Relating to Tax Matters approved.
Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of Barbados for the Exchange of Information Relating to Tax Matters approved.
African Tax Administration Forum Agreement on Mutual Assistance in Tax Matters approved.
Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Argentine Republic for the Exchange of Information Relating to Tax Matters approved.
Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the United States of America to Improve International Tax Compliance and to Implement FATCA, the Annexes thereto and the Memorandum of Understanding approved.
Protocol amending the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Republic of Turkey for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with respect to Taxes on Income approved.
Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Kingdom of Swaziland on Mutual Assistance and Co-operation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with Respect to Value Added Tax approved.
Southern African Development Community Agreement on Assistance in Tax Matters approved.
Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Principality of Monaco for the Exchange of Information Relating to Tax Matters approved.
Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Principality of Liechtenstein for the Exchange of Information Relating to Tax Matters approved.
Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Kingdom of Lesotho on Mutual Assistance and Co-operation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with Respect to Value Added Tax approved.
Debate concluded.
The House adjourned at 17:23.
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