Hansard: NA: Subject for discussion (Mr M Hlengwa): The significance of national days in the pursuit of nation building and social cohesion
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 09 Sep 2014
Summary
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Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
9 SEPTEMBER 2014
PAGE: 1
START OF DAY
TUESDAY, 9 SEPTEMBER 2014
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
_____
The House met at 14:04.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Start of Day
NOTICES OF MOTION
Ms P B MABE: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move:
That the House debates the White Paper on the Transformation of the Public Service that was launched in October 1997, aimed at providing Public Service with a fresh and focused approach to improve service delivery, and how much progress government has made in achieving this objective, including the current obstacles that are faced.
Rev K R J MESHOE
Ms P B MABE
Rev K R J MESHOE: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move:
That the House debates the circumstances that led to the paralysis of the Pan South African Language Board and why the board chose to commit 70% of its budget allocation to employee salaries, leaving only a small amount to carry out its core function.
Ms M R SHINN
Rev K R J MESHOE
Ms M R SHINN: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move:
That the House debates the economic imperative of creating a visionary and rigorously regulated information communications technology, ICT, environment to give certainty and incentive to both local and foreign investors to grow the job-creating knowledge economy.
Mr N L S KWANKWA
Ms M R SHINN
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the:
That the House debates the need to develop a coherent beneficiation strategy in order to ensure that our resource-based comparative advantage is turned into a national competitive advantage.
Mr J J MC GLUWA
Mr N L S KWANKWA
Mr J J MC GLUWA: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the role and functions of the State Security Agency of South Africa, its independence, as well as its ability to supply intelligence and counterintelligence to the various threats that we as South Africans face.
Ms S J NKOMO
Mr J J MC GLUWA
Ms S J NKOMO: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move:
That the House debates the recent study results that show that teenagers want HIV/Aids tests done in schools and the Department of Basic Education’s objections to the idea.
Mr P G ATKINSON
Ms S J NKOMO
Mr P G ATKINSON: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the current state of the South African Post Office, specifically in relation to the ongoing industrial action, damage to property, and continual interruptions to this essential service on which so many South Africans depend.
Mr M HLENGWA
Mr P ATKINSON
Mr M HLENGWA: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House debates the accusations leveled at the Public Protector of being a Central Intelligence Agency, CIA, spy bent on undermining the government by the Deputy Minister of Defence and Military Veterans and whether he should not be relieved of his duties for almost causing an international diplomatic furore.
Ms P NTOBONGWANA
Mr M HLENGWA
Ms P NTOBONGWANA: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move:
That the House debates the practice of labour brokering in light of government’s commitment to creating sustainable jobs and further debates the practice in relation to workers’ rights to organise and unionise.
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM
Ms P NTOBONGWANA
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Speaker, I give notice that at the next sitting of the House I shall move on behalf of the NFP:
That the House debates the failure of the Department of Basic Education to address the challenges faced by the Collingwood Primary School, a school built 43 years ago with prefabricated materials infested with bird lice and condemned by engineers, which places all learners at high risk.
Ms R M M LESOMA
The SPEAKER
Ms R M M LESOMA: Speaker, a critical tool which focuses the plans of government is the National Development Plan, NDP. It defines a common agenda for all spheres of the South African government. The ANC believes that the NDP’s plan needs to be realised. It is critical that the state’s capacity ...
The SPEAKER: Hon member, is that a notice of motion?
Hon MEMBERS: No!
The SPEAKER: It sounds like a statement. I think we must make a clear distinction between the two.
Ms R M M LESOMA: No, it is a motion.
The SPEAKER: I think I saw a hand this side. Hon Dlamini-Dubazana?
Ms Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANA
The SPEAKER
Ms Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANA: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move:
That the House debates the continuous victimisation of whistle-blowers by their managers and the protection of their identity because of their importance to, and relevance in, our democratic society.
Mr N M KHUBISA
Ms Z S DLAMINI-DUBAZANA
Mr N M KHUBISA: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move:
That the House debates the underspending of the Municipal Infrastructure Grant, Mig, funding by some municipalities and its impact on the lives of the citizens of our country.
Mr M S SESHOKA
Mr N M KHUBISA
Mr M S SESHOKA: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move:
That the House debates the failure of municipalities to spend their conditional grants for sport and recreation on investments in sports infrastructure.
Mr M L D NTOMBELA
Mr M S SESHOKA
Mr M L D NTOMBELA: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move:
That the House debates the immediate and long-term measures to assist municipalities that had been identified as being dysfunctional by the outcomes of the Auditor-General’s report.
Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM
Mr M L D NTOMBELA
Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move:
That the House debates World Suicide Prevention Day being commemorated worldwide today and that all relevant departments – Health, Social Development, and Basic Education – come together and address the high suicide rate in South Africa.
Mr M A DIRKS
Mr A M SHAIK-EMAM
Mr M A DIRKS: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move:
That the House debates that after apartheid, in 1994, South Africa’s government focus was on enhancing the capacity to achieve reconstruction and development, that the focus was on promoting an understanding that a new democracy had to be developmental, and that policies need to redress the past imbalances of apartheid.
Ms H O MAXON
Mr M A DIRKS
Ms H O MAXON: Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House, I shall move:
That the House debates employment conditions and wages for petrol attendants, waiters and waitresses.
MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE (Mr N SINGH)
MOTIONS
TAKE 151 STARTS AT 14:20
INTERNATIONAL FETAL ALCOHOL SYNDROME DAY
(Draft Resolution)
Mr N SINGH: Hon Speaker, I hereby move without notice:
That the House –
- notes that today is International Foetal Alcohol Syndrome Day;
- recognises that alcohol may be toxic to the foetus, and can cause a number of health-related issues for both the mother and child including spontaneous abortion, premature labour, stillbirth, and foetal alcohol syndrome;
- endorses all efforts of making mothers more aware that the consumption of alcohol during pregnancy may be harmful to their unborn babies;
- calls upon the Minister of Health to increase such awareness programmes; and
- urges all pregnant women to refrain from the consumption of alcohol.
Agreed to.
CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION
MR N SINGH
BOMB BLAST IN MOGADISHU
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Hon Speaker, I hereby move without notice:
That the House –
- notes -
- that yesterday afternoon, Monday 8 September 2014, rebel group Al-Shabaab bombed African peacekeepers and government vehicles in the Somalian capital of Mogadishu;
- further notes that at least 12 civilians, including one South African, lost their lives during the attacks and several were severely injured;
- acknowledges that acts of terrorism such as these are criminal and indefensible regardless of the motivation, where it happens or who is responsible; and
- extends its sincere condolences to the friends and families of all the victims.
Agreed to.
CHIEF WHIP OF MAJORITY PARTY
CHIEF WHIP OF OPPOSITION
BAFANA BAFANA AFCON CAMPAIGN
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, I hereby move without notice:
That the House –
- notes -
- that on Friday, 5 September 2014, Bafana Bafana kicked their 2015 Africa Cup of Nations, Afcon, qualification campaign off to a perfect start with a 3-0 victory over Sudan;
- further that this was Shakes Mashaba’s first victory in his first game since being hired for a third term as national coach in July 2014;
- acknowledges –
- that the second-half replacement, Sibusiso Vilakazi, scored a stunning brace, while Bongani Ndulula scored the third goal in his debut to guide South Africa to the perfect start of their campaign at Al-Merrikh Stadium in Khartoum
- further that this was not an easy trip as South Africa were greeted by a hostile crowd, soaring temperatures and a less than ideal playing surface, marred by bumpy patches and grassless ditches; and
- congratulates the coach and the team for their victory and wishes them well in their next crucial match against Nigeria on Wednesday evening in Cape Town.
Agreed to.
MR M S MBATHA
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
WATER PROVISION IN GA-MATSEPE
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M S MBATHA: Hon Speaker, I hereby move without notice:
That the House –
- notes
- with sadness the passing away of the pensioner, Johanna Mokobane, who was 84-years-old, of Ga-matsepe village in Tafelkop, Sekhukhune in Limpopo;
- also that Koko Mokobane’s ultimate death was caused by lack of water as she fell into a hole dug by a community as a desperate water provision mechanism;
- further that just before the elections, President Zuma was on television cutting the ribbon for the opening of the R3 billion De Hoop Dam in Sekhukhune, where the people were told that...
[Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker?
The SPEAKER: Yes, hon Chief Whip?
Mr M S MBATHA: Speaker, can I finish?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, we really want the speaker to read that statement during the time for member’s statements because motions without notice do not resemble the statement he is making.
THE SPEAKER: Hon member, can you wait for the time for member’s statements then you can bring it back?
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Hon Speaker, in the last sitting of the House we had agreed that members must be allowed to read their statements until their conclusion.
THE SPEAKER: No, we are giving the hon member time at the right moment when the House is dealing with statements. We will allow him to make his statement.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: But, he is moving a motion that the House must agree upon or object to.
The SPEAKER: For now, it is not a motion. That is what the Chief Whip is explaining.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: But for the House to say it is not ... [Interjections.] It is a motion.
The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, the hon member will make his statement at the right time. Are there other motions?
Mr J S MALEMA: Hon Speaker, on a point of order: When a member stands to say, “This is a motion,” it cannot be subject to the approval of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party as to whether that is a motion or not.
He moves a motion and according to him it is a motion which the ANC has all the powers to object to. [Interjections.] So you cannot tell me whether this is a motion or is not a motion. You have no such authority. Therefore we must respect each other.
Let the speaker move his motion and if the ANC has a got a problem with that, let them object. When I say this is a motion, you cannot tell that me it is a statement because what is going to happen, Speaker, is that we are going to rise when he speaks and say, “That is not a motion; it is a statement. You will talk later.” You cannot allow that, Speaker.
The SPEAKER: Hon Malema, actually this is not a fighting matter. It really isn’t. We can ask the House if it agrees that this is a motion and we can have the House express itself on the matter. It is not a matter that should delay the House.
Mr J S MALEMA: Chair, we do not agree with that. We are saying that that is a motion and the ANC cannot tell us that it is not a motion. [Interjections.] You can object to it, if you so wish.
Can we be allowed to speak to that motion then you object to it and we proceed? We did this last week.
The SPEAKER: Hon Malema, I would like to let that statement be put to the House at the right time and I just must be allowed to do that. Could I see whether there is another motion without notice? Hon Waters.
Mr G A GARDEE: Hon Speaker, with due respect to your office and the House, the hon member stood up... [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, I rise on a point of order: The hon members on the other side should choose which Parliament they want to run. The rules of this House dictate that if you are challenging a ruling made by the Presiding Officers, there is a platform to deal with it.
Besides, the hon member understands that the Rules prescribe that a motion without notice is circulated to all parties before it is moved here. It is not allowed for him to do this and force it upon us. It is not allowed.
Mr J S MALEMA: Hon Speaker, we want to belong to a Parliament of South Africa and not of the ANC. Therefore, we are not going to accept things are run here according to what the Chief Whip of the Majority Party wants. The motion he is talking about was circulated and they objected to it. This argument that it is not a motion was not raised.
That motion was circulated. Everybody received that motion. So, if the Chief Whip just came in now, he must ask his people about it.
The SPEAKER: Clearly, it was not circulated to everybody in terms of the parties because there wouldn’t have been this debate if it had been circulated and agreed upon by all parties. I would like to proceed to hon Waters.
Mr G A GARDEE: Hon Speaker, I rose to address you on this matter in order to assist your Office and the House. If I may be allowed quickly to bring a matter to your attention you will probably make a ruling and we shall abide by it. May I address you?
The SPEAKER: Address me.
Mr G A GARDEE: Hon Speaker, it has been agreed in terms of the precedent that a member shall rise and read his motion without notice. When he has finished reading it, any party who is not in concurrence with it shall so rise and object and it shall fall away.
However, to tell us that this is a draft resolution or this or that is not in our best interests and we went through this humiliation whilst you were on leave, hon Speaker. After the past precedent, we came to the practice that a member shall be allowed to read what he or she thinks is a motion without notice, and when he or she has finished any party or member of the House can rise and object it and it falls away immediately.
I think our counterparts, the ruling party and the Chief Whip, are making things difficult for your chair, and we cannot kowtow to its bullying tactics in this House. I thank you.
The SPEAKER: Hon member, I have heard you. My decision is that I will allow the hon member to read the statement at the time of the statements. I would now like to proceed with hon Waters.
MR W WATERS
THE SPEAKER
SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL PARKS WEEK
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M WATERS: Hon Speaker, I hereby move without notice:
That the House –
- notes –
- that the 9th Annual South African National Parks, SANParks, Week started on Monday, 8 September 2014 and will continue until Friday, 12 September 2014;
- further that the annual SANParks Week gives South African citizens free entry into most of the national parks for the duration of the week;
- acknowledges –
- that this initiative is an excellent way of encouraging South Africans to foster a sense of pride in the natural, cultural and historical heritage of our beautiful national parks;
- further that the theme for this years’ SANParks Week is, Know your National Parks;
- thanks SANParks and their sponsors for organising this week; and
- encourages South Africans to make use of this opportunity to pay a visit to a nearby national park to learn about and enjoy our natural heritage, free of charge.
Agreed to.
Mr J A MNGXITAM
Mr M WATERS
COMMEMORATING STEVE BIKO’S DEATH
(Draft Resolution)
Mr J A MNGXITAM: Hon Speaker, I hereby move without notice:
That the House –
- notes -
- that 12 September 2014, marks the 38th year since the brutal murder of Steve Biko;
- further that Steve Biko was the founding father of the Black Consciousness philosophy, which is an indigenous response to the ideology of white supremacy as practised by successive settler government since 1652;
- also notes that the impact of colonialism and apartheid on the psyche of both whites and blacks created the reality of a psychological superiority complex for whites and an inferiority complex for blacks.
Dr C P MULDER: Hon Speaker, I rise on a point of order: The hon member knows full well that there were objections from different parties to this motion and that he is therefore not supposed to read it in the House.
I suggest that the hon member knows that very well and that we, as well as other parties, objected to the same motion. He knows that.
Mr J A MNGXITAM: He must sit down.
THE SPEAKER: No, he is sitting down. Hon Mngxitam, if you knew that the motion had been rejected by other parties, why bring it to the House?
Mr J A MNGXITAM: Hon Speaker, this is a motion without notice. We circulate these motions, but it is not a rule that they must agree.
I do not understand why you allow the abuse of a practice which means that when parties object to these motions, we may not continue to read them. At the end, if they should object, as they may, of course we will upgrade them to notices of motion. I do not understand why you allow right-wingers like this one ... [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: No, hon member ... [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, May I address you?
The SPEAKER: Yes.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: We really are making a farce out of these motions without notice in the House. Yes, there are the Rules that we have in Parliament, but there are also conventions and practices which have been established over a long period, which guide this House when we make decisions.
We have a practice that these motions are circulated, preferably before 12 o’clock on the day they are to be read in the House. If parties object, then they are not read in the House.
If we object and then parties are still able to just come here and read whatever they like in the House, then we are actually making nonsense out of the whole process. So I would really ask this.
These were circulated; we had the courtesy of responding to the persons who put forward the motions to express that we were objecting to them for the reasons that we gave.
What really is the point of us doing that if it is a farcical process and everyone just comes into the House and reads whatever they like? If that is what it is going to be like then we are also going to bring it on next week.
The SPEAKER: Hon members, I want to say this ... [Interjections.] Hon Malema?
Mr J S MALEMA: Speaker, can I address you before you speak so that you also answer me?
THE SPEAKER: Yes.
Mr J S MALEMA: Hon Speaker, if there is no Rule and the hon Chief Whip of the DA is referring to some practices which in the last sitting here we agreed upon that the speaker can proceed, they will object later and if this is going to be the attitude, then there is no motion which is going to be moved here because we are going to oppose everything including motions on funerals. [Laughter.] If that is what he is asking us to do, we will have a problem here. Chief Whip, I am telling you that now.
There won’t be any motion that will come here because we will oppose everything, including your name. [Interjections.] So, we have to agree that the platform where we have to speak is here and then let there be objections, because we are not going to subject ourselves to these congratulatory things and condolences without politics. We want to speak politics here and not about some congratulations on marriages and things like that. [Laughter.]
Mr N P KHOZA: On a point of order, Madame Speaker! [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon members! Hon members, just ... [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, may I address you? [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: No, just allow me to say something. Hon members, I think one of the things we must not forget is the nature of Parliament because we have set Rules and agree on how to do things. This is precisely because part of what Parliament is about is that we come here as representatives of the people whom we come from and whom elected us to Parliament.
This is precisely so that there is also a consensus-building attitude about how we do things. If we agree that we circulate a motion without notice, then if it is not agreed upon, leave it. You can still make the statement when it is time for Members’ Statements in the House. We can’t force you not to do that, but a Motion without Notice been circulated is a way of trying to process matters that we bring to the House. So I don’t think that we should force matters. [Interjections.] Really, hon members!
I am saying that there will be a time for you to make a statement and we cannot say that you must make a statement that you do not want to make. However, we are saying to you, hon members, when it is a motion without notice, do not force it on the House when other members have already indicated that it does not pass as such. [Interjections.]
Mr J A MNGXITAMA: On a point of order, Chair.
The SPEAKER: Order! You cannot disrupt me, hon Mngxitama!
Mr J A MNGXITAMA: You are out of order, Chair!
The SPEAKER: Hon Mngxitama, you will not do that! Hon members, allow me to proceed. I am told that this item is actually going to be discussed in the Chief Whip’s Forum tomorrow so that the whole issue of motions without notice can be discussed by the Whips of all parties.
Mr G A GARDEE: Hon Speaker, there is an hon member of the DA ... [Interjections.] ... who is calling hon Mngxitama a bloody agent! It’s that hon member of DA. [Interjections.] So I don’t know if it is Parliamentary for him to say that. He calls him by ... [Laughter.] We cannot allow that; we cannot promote these apartheid tendencies.
The SPEAKER: Who is that hon member of the DA?
Mr G A GARDEE: The one that howls too much. This one! [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order, hon members! [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: On a point of order, Madam Speaker: Yu cannot allow a situation in this House where members feel free to rise from their seats and to start directing other members of the opposition. It is out order and I would ask you to rule on it. There can be not intimidation ... [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: No, it is wrong hon members - really! Hon Mngxitama, you don’t do that in the House. Hon members, how we conduct ourselves in the House is a reflection on our collective dignity. I really don’t think that the people who sent us here believed we would come here and do the things that we are doing. [Interjections.]
Mr J A MNGXITAMA: Chair, may I respectfully address you? [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: About what, hon Mngxitama?
Mr J A MNGXITAMA: About this DA hooligan here ... [Interjections.] ... who is calling us agents. If you allow racist right-wingers in the DA to insult Members of Parliament here, it is not going to work, Speaker. [Interjections.]
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: On a point of order.
Mr J A MNGXITAMA: Let that man withdraw the statement he just made!
The SPEAKER: Who is the man who said that the hon member is an agent? Is there anyone who ... [Interjections.]
Mr G A GARDEE: Hon Speaker, may I rise from my seat and go to point him out? If I go there without your permission ... [Interjections.] Yes, it is that one!
The SPEAKER: No, hon members! Hon members, our people are watching us. Our people are watching us and I would really like to insist that we behave like honourable members. I would now like to proceed with any other Motions without Notice. [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker!
THE SPEAKER: Yes, hon member?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Just on a point of order, Madam Speaker. Hon Mngxitama, spoke into the microphone — which will now be recorded on Hansard and has been conveyed to the South African public — called a member of the DA a hooligan and accused him of being a racist.
The member concerned is an hon member and members of this House are hon members, and that sort of unsubstantiated allegation should not be allowed to be recorded on Hansard. I would request you that you ask hon Mngxitama to withdraw those two words which I submit to you, hon Speaker, are unparliamentary. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: It is unparliamentary. Hon Mngxitama, you cannot call another hon member a racist. You cannot call another hon member a hooligan. I really would like you to withdraw those statements. [Interjections.] We have not identified any person who said any of the things that you allege he said.
Mr J S MALEMA: Hon Speaker! Hon Speaker, I think that you must take charge of this sitting. [Interjections.] The hon member there ... We do not know names of these hon members here because we really do not agree with their politics. So we want to stand up and point to the hon member here. However, the Chief Whip of the Opposition says we must not stand up. How are we going to identify this hon member who said Andile is a bloody agent? He must withdraw. I agree with you, Andile must also withdraw; there is no debate about that, but that hon member must also withdraw. You cannot because ... [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Fine! Allow me to proceed. I have heard you, hon Malema. I have heard you. Hon Mngxitama, please withdraw. [Interjections.] No, no! I am asking hon Mngxitama to withdraw.
Mr J A MNGXITAMA: Okay, I withdraw!
The SPEAKER: All right! The hon member of the DA has to withdraw.
Mr P G ATKINSON: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I withdraw.
The SPEAKER: Okay, hon members, we are now on the first motion on the Order Paper in the name of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party.
Rev K R J MESHOE: Speaker!
The SPEAKER: Hon Reverend?
Rev K R J MESHOE: Our hands were up.
The SPEAKER: Oh, your hand was up for a Motion Without Notice?
Rev K R J MESHOE: Yes, correct!
THE SPEAKER: Hon reverend!
Rev K J R MESHOE
THE SPEAKER
Rev K R J MESHOE: I move without notice on behalf of ACDP:
That the House-
- notes with concern that there appears to be a marked increase in the number on paramedics while on duty;
- further notes that a crew of paramedics were attacked in the early hours of yesterday morning, 8 September, 2014, in Tsakane while they were attending to a suspect who had been wounded in a case of domestic violence;
- also notes that the attack in which an ambulance was severely damage took place just one week after emergency personnel were assaulted in Daveyton near Benoni;
- condemns the attacks on paramedics who place their lives at considerable risk in order to carry out their duties;
- applauds paramedics for the excellent and invaluable service that they provide, especially in dangerous areas of our country where they are not shown much respect or appreciation; and
- calls on the government to do everything they can to ensure that the safety of our paramedics is guaranteed during their line of duty.
Agreed to.
CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
REV K R J MESHOE
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, I rise to move a Motion without Notice:
That the House-
- notes that South Africa’s renowned mathematician, Prof Daya Reddy, is a newly elected President of the International Council for Science;
- further notes that he was elected by representatives of this council comprising 120 national members and 31 scientific unions attending the organisation’s 31st General Assembly in Auckland, New Zealand;
- acknowledges that this council is a nongovernmental organisation, NGO, with a global membership of national scientific bodies, 121 members representing 141 countries and an international scientific union with 31 members;
- recalls that Prof Reddy obtained his Ph D in Civil Engineering from the University of Cape Town and a Ph D degree from Cambridge University;
- further recalls that he is a President of the Academy of Science of South Africa and serves as Co-Chair of the Inter-Academy Council, a body which produces reports on scientific technological and health issues for governments and global organisations;
- believes that the election of Prof Reddy shows that our continent is being recognised for its skills, ability to lead and the role we are playing in global science; and
- congratulates him on his well-deserved election.
Agreed to.
MOTIONS ON THE ORDER PAPER
TAKE 153 - TAKE STARTS AT 14:48
MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE (THE CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY)
MEDICAL INNOVATION BILL IN THE NAME OF DR M G ORIANI-AMBROSINI
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, I move the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:
That the House–
(1) notes that on 22 July 2014, the Medical Innovation Bill in the name of Dr M G Oriani-Ambrosini was revived by the House from the stage at which it was referred to the Portfolio Committee on Health in the Sixth Session of the Fourth Parliament;
(2) further notes that the Bill lapsed when Dr M G Oriani-Ambrosini ceased to be a member of the Assembly;
(3) acknowledges that the requisite preintroductory procedures, as set out in Rules 237 and 241, had been complied with during the initial introduction process; and
(4) resolves therefore to–
(a) suspend Assembly Rules 237 and 241 to allow for the introduction of the Medical Innovation Bill by Mr N Singh; and
(b) refer all public submissions previously received to the relevant committee.
Agreed to.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
DEATH OF MSHIYENI ELLIOT SOGONI
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Speaker, I move the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:
That the House–
(1) notes with great sadness the passing on of former Member of Parliament in the National Assembly, Mr Mshiyeni Elliot Sogoni, in a car accident on 4 September 2014;
(2) further notes that Mr Sogoni was a Member of Parliament in the National Council of Provinces from 2004 to 2009 and in the National Assembly from 2009 to 2014;
(3) remembers that, before joining the national Parliament, he served as a member of the Gauteng Provincial Legislature;
(4) acknowledges that, whilst in Parliament, he served in different Committees, but that he will mostly be remembered as a vibrant Chairperson of the Standing Committee on Appropriations;
(5) recalls that he served the ANC in its Gauteng structures at branch level as Chairperson of the ANC Vosloorus Branch before serving on the Ekurhuleni Regional Council;
(6) further recalls that, before joining Parliament, Mr Sogoni was an avid supporter of the SA Railway and Harbour Workers’ Union, SARHWU, served as its Gauteng treasurer and secretary and wrote a publication on its history;
(7) believes that his death has robbed us of a comrade who had worked tirelessly for the liberation of our people; and
- conveys its deepest condolences to his family, friends and colleagues.
Agreed to, members standing.
THE SPEAKER: The presiding officers associate themselves with the motion, and the condolences of the House will be conveyed to the Sogoni family.
MEMBERS’ STATEMENTS
MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE ON THE ORDER PAPER
CO-OPERATION BETWEEN NEDLAC AND OTHER STAKEHOLDERS TO ACHIEVE INCLUSIVE GROWTH
(Member’s Statement)
Ms J L FUBBS: Hon Speaker, we wish to congratulate the National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac, on establishing a stakeholder platform to develop a common approach to work together to achieve inclusive growth.
The ANC believes, by working together, this apex institution can constructively and positively resolve a proposed national minimum wage acceptable to business, labour, government and the community. In this way, we know the trust deficit between these stakeholders can be overcome, and, as the Deputy President, Mr Cyril Ramaphosa, said, it will bring about inclusive growth.
The ANC also welcomes the commitment by Mr Cyril Ramaphosa on Friday to make concrete President Zuma’s commitment in his state of the nation address for a social partners’ dialogue within the ambit of Nedlac to address not only the violent strikes, but the wage inequalities. We also welcome Cosatu’s commitment to engage government on the outstanding differences it has with the National Development Plan, NDP.
South Africa’s strong track record of overcoming intractable challenges, by working together, achieved political transformation. In this Fifth Term of Parliament, we are determined to achieve an inclusive economy. We appeal to all members of the House to overcome their parochial differences in this battle against poverty and unemployment and support Nedlac’s commitment to overcome the domestic constraints on our economy. Thank you. [Applause.]
THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
Ms J L FUBBS
COMMENTS OF DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS THAT PUBLIC PROTECTOR IS CIA AGENT
(Member’s Statement)
THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Speaker, the DA is appalled by the comments made yesterday by the Deputy Minister of Defence and Military Veterans, the hon Kebby Maphatsoe, in respect of the Public Protector, Adv Thuli Madonsela. [Interjections.]
The Deputy Minister’s accusation that Adv Madonsela is a plant of the United States Central Intelligence Agency, the CIA, whose only motivation is to undermine the ANC, Parliament and the Constitution, is baseless and unconstitutional in itself. [Interjections.]
HON MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: You see, this is the latest attempt by the ANC to belittle and ...
Ms M T KUBAYI: On a point of order, Speaker: The hon Maimane is making a statement reflecting on the character of a sitting member of this House ... [Interjections.] …
The SPEAKER: Yes, hon member, continue.
Ms M T KUBAYI: ... and, on that, the Rules are very clear. If he needs to reflect on the character of a member of this House, still sitting, he needs to do so in a substantive motion. [Interjections.] Therefore I would urge the hon member to stop reading that statement.
If he has a substantive motion, he needs to move it, otherwise he cannot reflect on the character of a member of this House. [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: On a point of order, Madam Speaker ...
THE SPEAKER: That is true, hon members. Yes?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, I would submit to you that the hon Leader of the Opposition is not reflecting on the character of the person. He is passing comments on statements that were made publicly by the Deputy Minister, yesterday. Now, if the Deputy Minister is willing to go on record, in public, in print, then I think that his comments, which are the substance of the hon Maimane’s intervention here today, are fair game for comment in a member’s statement.
HON MEMBERS: Yes!
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: We are not bringing a motion of censure to the House. We are not looking for him to be removed. However, we are commenting on public statements that the Deputy Minister has made.
HON MEMBERS: Yes! [Applause.]
THE SPEAKER: Hon Leader of the Opposition, your wording must be very cautiously formulated so that you are not actually reflecting on the character while you comment on the comments that were, indeed, publicly made, as you were saying. [Interjections.]
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: That is correct. I was just reflecting on what the Deputy Minister had said.
I think these claims that he made are without any foundation. It is, in fact ...
Ms M T KUBAYI: On a point of order, Speaker ... [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order!
Ms M T KUBAYI: Madam Speaker, I want to put it to you that the hon Deputy Minister of Defence and Military Veterans is currently contesting what has been publicly said about the statements ... [Interjections.] ... so what the hon Maimane is speaking about is not factual. [Interjections.] It is not. That is why I am saying he is reflecting on the character of a member ... [Interjections.] ... because the statements that are said to have been made are not ...
The SPEAKER: Order! I can’t hear now.
Ms M T KUBAYI: The statement that the hon Maimane is reading is a reflection of what was printed in The Star. The Deputy Minister has coming forward to say that he has been incorrectly quoted. [Interjections.] We do not have the correct version in order to allow the hon Maimane to proceed. [Interjections.]
Mr M G P LEKOTA: Madam Speaker, on a point of order: That is not a point of order. She is defending the Deputy Minister. [Interjections.] [Applause.] Let us deal with the issue, please. [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Steenhuisen?
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I must reinforce: This is a matter for public discourse. It cannot be that it can be discussed in the newspapers of the land but not be allowed to be discussed here, in this House.
HON MEMBERS: Yes!
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: It simply doesn’t make sense – and again, there is no reference to the hon Deputy Minister’s character. The hon Maimane is taking issue with the comments that were made.
If the Deputy Minister wants to contest it, he should be here in the House where he has an opportunity to respond to the member’s statement. [Interjections.] Instead, he is not here. I don’t know where he is. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: Order, hon members! Hon members! [Interjections.] Hon members, on the basis that the Deputy Minister is contesting what is said to have been his statement ... [Interjections.] ... I would like to be allowed to look at that statement, and will come back to the House. [Interjections.]
HON MEMBERS: No! [Interjections.]
Mr J S MALEMA: No, hon Speaker ... [Interjections.] Hon Speaker ... [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon members, we can’t all be on our feet.
Mr J S MALEMA: Hon Speaker.
The SPEAKER: Hon members, I repeat: You can’t all be on your feet. Hon Malema?
Mr J S MALEMA: Hon Speaker, I’ve pleaded with you to please preside over this honourable House by allowing all of us to express ourselves.
The hon Leader of the Opposition is speaking under a Member’s Statements, which is supposed to be the most protected thing, and if there is any contestation over whatever he says, Ministers will have an opportunity to respond to him. [Interjections.]
Please stop being partisan, Comrade Baleka. I am asking you to treat us all the same. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: I am not your comrade, by the way. [Applause.]
Mr J S MALEMA: Comrade Baleka, treat all of us as honourable members of this House. It cannot be that every time when the ANC rises you get so easily confused like that. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Malema! Hon Malema, I would like you to withdraw that.
Mr J S MALEMA: Withdraw what?
The SPEAKER: Withdraw the last statement you made.
Mr J S MALEMA: No, you are always confused by the ANC.
The SPEAKER: You cannot reflect on the Chair in that manner.
Mr J S MALEMA: I withdraw, but protect the speaker making the member’s statement. They will have an opportunity to respond.
The SPEAKER: Please take your seat, hon Malema. Hon Steenhuisen ...
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: May I address you, Madam Speaker?
The SPEAKER: Please allow me to proceed.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Yes, Madam Speaker, I would like you to proceed, but I would like you to allow the hon Leader of the Opposition to complete his statement. [Interjections.]
You will then get a situation where there is no shortage of Members of the Cabinet here who are allowed to respond to it and to put the ANC’s version to us.
The SPEAKER: Hon Steenhuisen ...
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: You can then look at the Hansard and come back.
The SPEAKER: I have heard you. Take your seat. I believe the Deputy Minister is actually here and would be willing to deal with the statement. [Interjections.] I’ll allow the hon Maimane to finish that statement. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: It is, in fact, an attempt to undermine Parliament and the Constitution by interfering in the work of the Public Protector and not giving any meaning to the remedial actions taken by Adv Madonsela in many of her reports.
Therefore, the DA would request that the Deputy Minister immediately withdraw those comments and apologise for his irresponsible remarks against the Public Protector.
HON MEMBERS: Hear, hear!
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Should he fail to do so, the DA will then launch a motion of censure against the Deputy Minister. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr I M OLLIS
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION
Mr I M OLLIS: Speaker, can I just address you for one second?
The SPEAKER: On what grounds?
Mr I M OLLIS: On a point of order.
The SPEAKER: The DA has just spoken. The Leader of the DA has finished making his statement. I do not allow you to just have a special opportunity.
Mr I M OLLIS: Speaker, this is not a special opportunity. I am addressing you on a point of order. I did not want yet again to interrupt the speaker.
The SPEAKER: What is the point of order?
Mr I M OLLIS: The point of order is this: You have now made a Ruling that you would allow this to go ahead on the basis that the Deputy Minister is in the House. We cannot have a situation in which the opposition is held hostage as to whether or not the Minister is in the House.
HON MEMBERS: Yes!
Mr I M OLLIS: Statements must be either be allowed or not allowed, irrespective of whether the relevant Minister is in the House. Otherwise we are going to have chaos. People won’t be allowed to speak if someone is missing.
The SPEAKER: Hon member, could you take your seat.
Mr G A GARDEE (EFF)
THE SPEAKER
84-YEAR-OLD GRANDMOTHER FALLS INTO HOLE DUG BY COMMUNITY TO ACCESS GROUNDWATER
(Member’s Statement)
Mr G A GARDEE (EFF): Hon Speaker, the news about 84-year-old Gogo(Granny) Johanna Mokobane of Ga-Matsepe village in Tafelkop, Sekhukhune district of Limpopo province, who died after falling into a hole and drowning is indeed heartbreaking.
This incident happened recently on 30 August 2014. This is a sad reality of the new South Africa 20 years into democracy. The granny died after falling into a hole dug by community members to access groundwater.
This village, like many other villages across the country, continues to experience severe water shortages 20 years into democracy. The ANC government is failing our people. The current conditions our people are subjected to make it very difficult for us to differentiate between the apartheid regime and the ANC government.
Just before the general election of this year, President Zuma was seen on our television screens cutting the ribbon and opening one of the biggest dams in the country, the De Hoop Dam in Sekhukhune. This dam was built to the tune of R3 billion.
The people of Sekhukhune were promised that water shortages in that part of the country would be a thing of the past. The million-dollar question is: Where is the water, Mr President? Bring back the water! [Laughter.] [Interjections.]
The opening of this dam just before the general election this year was an election campaign and not service delivery, as the people of South Africa were made to believe. Our people continue to suffer. Bring back the water! Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Ms S R VAN SCHALKWYK (ANC)
Mr G A GARDEE
STATE OF THE ART HOSPITALS FOR NORTHERN CAPE
(Member’s Statement)
Ms S R VAN SCHALKWYK (ANC): Deputy Speaker, the opening of the R1 billion modern state-of-the-art Dr Harry Surtie Hospital in Upington, on Tuesday 02 September 2014, is part of the ANC government's revitalisation of the public hospital infrastructure roll-out programme, and an indication of the ANC’s serious commitment to bring health services closer to the people.
The ANC wants to ensure that the building of state-of-the-art hospitals with world-class-standards equipment and advanced technology in small towns and rural areas will provide quality services to the public, with the hope that such advancements will also attract more doctors and medical students to come to serve the rural communities.
The Dr Harry Surtie Hospital will dramatically benefit the local residents as they will no longer have to travel to other provinces to access specialised medical services, and furthermore it has also created more than 200 direct and indirect jobs to residents of Upington and surrounding communities.
Therefore, the ANC believes that the opening of this hospital moves forward the mission of the National Health Insurance, NHI, and ensures that South Africans have access to comprehensive quality health services irrespective of their socioeconomic status. The ANC hopes to see more of the state-of-the-art hospitals being built in other parts of South Africa. I thank you.
Mr M HLENGWA (IFP)
Ms S R VAN SCHALKWYK (ANC)
SADESMO WINS 13 OUT OF 14 SEATS IN SRC ELECTIONS AT QWAQWA CAMPUS OF UNIVERSITY OF THE FREE STATE
(Member’s Statement)
Mr M HLENGWA (IFP): Hon Deputy Speaker ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, members! Hon Cronin, did you get lost? Hon Hlengwa, proceed. [Laughter.]
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, the IFP’s SA Democratic Students Movement, Sadesmo, last week won 13 of 14 seats available on the Students Representative Council, SRC, of the QwaQwa Campus of the University of the Free State. This was indeed a landslide victory as the SA Students Congress, Sasco, only received one seat.
This shows that students on the campus of this university know that Sadesmo, unlike Sasco, can meet their needs and point them in the right direction instead of making the empty promises without substance that they have been receiving.
The IFP would like to thank the student population for trusting Sadesmo with their votes and knowing that the organisation will push effectively and engage university management on students’ issues and also work to ensure that the issues that hinder students from gaining access to education are dealt with.
Sadesmo truly represent the interest of students and this victory is further proof that students are waking up to the fact that the Sadesmo is their voice.
IsiZulu:
Nishawe nanaba nathi thwi!
Dr P W A MULDER (FF PLUS)
Mr M HLENGWA (IFP)
GOVERNMENT’S STATEMENTS REGARDING LAND REFORM CAUSE UNCERTAINTY
(Member’s Statement)
Afrikaans:
Dr P W A MULDER (VF Plus): Adjunkspeaker, die Suid-Afrikaanse landbou word steeds in groter onsekerheid gedompel deur die regering se verwarende uitsprake oor grond. Adjunkpresident Cyril Ramaphosa het verlede week kommersiële landbouers in Limpopo aangemoedig om op nuut in landbou te belê en as wildboere hul boerdery uit te brei.
Terselfdertyd forseer die agb Minister Nkwinti sekere voorstelle deur die grondberaad, dat daar spesifieke plafonne geplaas moet word op die hoeveelheid grond wat landbouers mag besit.
Die riglyne wat hy stel is prakties onuitvoerbaar en nog moeiliker afdwingbaar. Hierdie voorstelle word gemaak voordat daar enige debat of duidelikheid is oor die posisie van die agb Minister se voorstel dat landbouers 50% van hul grond aan plaaswerkers moet afstaan.
Die saak word verder vertroebel deur City Press wat berig dat die 50% voorstel die agb Minister Nkwinti se eie voorstel is, en dat die agb Minister nie die goedkeuring van enige van die ANC of regering strukture gehad het om so ’n voorstel te maak nie; en terwyl die Nasionale Ontwikkelingsplan, NOP, in Hoofstuk ses alle voorstelle vir grondhervorming op distriksvlak voorstel.
As daar na die ANC se sekretaris-generaal, Mnr Mantashe se uitsprake oor grond teenoor kommersiële landbouers geluister word, klink dit of hy eerder die NOP se voorstelle verkies bo die verskillende planne van Mnr Nkwinti.
Ons wag ook nog vir duidelikheid oor wat presies die nuwe onteiningswet behels wat deur die Kabinet goedgekeur is.
Die regering moet besef dat die aankondiging van allerlei en ondeurdagte grondplanne, waaroor nie konsensus met alle rolspelers bereik is nie, onherstelbare skade aan die landbou aanrig. Tans, as ’n gevolg van hierdie soort onduidelikhede, neem landbouers ingrypende besluite om, byvoorbeeld, hul totale boerdery na ander Afrika state te neem,of om na Australië te verhuis, of om beleggingsuitbreidings te staak, of om werkersgetalle af te skaal. [Tyd verstreke.]
Ms S T XEGO-SOVITA (ANC)
Dr P W A MULDER (FF PLUS)
SEPTEMBER DECLARED WORLD TOURISM MONTH
(Member’s Statement)
Ms S T XEGO-SOVITA (ANC): Hon Deputy Speaker, the ANC would like to bring to the attention of the House that the United Nations World Tourism Organisation, UNWTO, declared the month of September World Tourism Month.
Modern tourism is closely linked to development dynamics and has become a driver for socioeconomic progress, especially job creation. The theme for 2014 is, Tourism and Community Development.
Some government agencies are leading the way in community involvement in their Local Economic Development Programmes. One such organisation is iSimangaliso Wetland Park Authority in northern KwaZulu-Natal which has developed a number of community-based tourism projects that involve local communities in local economic development initiatives.
One of these programmes is the Higher Education Access Programme, whereby a total of 67 students have been assisted and graduated in a number of fields of education, including ecotourism management and hospitality management. Skills development programmes in tourism, hospitality and guiding have also enabled local people to take up jobs in the local tourism industry.
Communities living inside and adjacent to iSimangaliso are the beneficiaries of the equity partnerships, income generation, job opportunities, training, capacity-building and mentorship programmes offered by the park. Some of these programmes are accessed by communities through concessions that iSimangaliso has afforded to them. Thank you, Chairperson. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr G S RADEBE (ANC)
Ms S T XEGO-SOVITA (ANC)
PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP RESULTS IN COMPUTER DONATION TO SCHOOL IN NELSPRUIT
(Member’s Statement)
Mr G S RADEBE (ANC): Hon Deputy Speaker, the ANC welcomes the donation of the computers that changed learners’ lives at Kabokweni in Mpumalanga. Once again, the partnership between the ANC government and the private sector has yielded positive results, as demonstrated by the donation of 15 computers to Phatfwa Secondary School in Nelspruit, Mpumalanga, by the Land Bank. This stands to benefit 678 learners.
Most of the learners of Phatfwa Secondary School come from impoverished rural backgrounds. Having access to the technology will assist the learners to improve their computer skills and make it easy for them to access information related to their studies. It will also help them to research the higher-learning institutions that they want to go in order to further their studies.
This partnership reinforces the notion that South Africans are working together and doing more. Indeed, more has been done in this regard by giving learners from disadvantaged backgrounds an opportunity and the resources - computers - to compete with their peers in other cities.
In moving South Africa forward, the ANC, once again appeals to all business people and corporate companies to partner with the government to assist with bringing resources to historically disadvantaged communities, particularly in the rural areas, and to help bridge the technological divide. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr S MOKGALAPA (DA)
Mr G S RADEBE (ANC)
DEPARTMENT OF INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS AND CO-OPERATION TO LIFT THE VEIL OF SECRECY
(Member’s Statement)
Mr S MOKGALAPA (DA): Hon Deputy Speaker, reports indicate that since last week Saturday, 30 August 2014, the South African government has been intricately involved in the Kingdom of Lesotho’s political meltdown. Despite the South African government’s role in Lesotho, directly and indirectly through the possible deployment of the SA National Defence Force, SANDF, troops and the deployment of the SA Police Service officers SAPS as well as through SA Development Community diplomatic channels, the official details are still unclear.
The time has come for the Department of International Relations and Co-operation to lift the veil of secrecy around South Africa’s involvement in Lesotho. South Africans want answers. The DA, therefore, calls on the Minister of the Department of International Relations and Co-operation, Minister Maite Nkoana-Mashabane, to make a statement in the NA in accordance with Rule 106 subsection(1) in which she must fully disclose the South African government’s role in Lesotho.
The Minister must clarify the following as a matter of urgency: What role, if any, is the SANDF and the SAPS playing in Lesotho and under what provision have they been sent there; is the Southern African Development Community considering military intervention; what mandate have South African Diplomatic officials been given in Lesotho; and are the SANDF and SAPS involved in tracking down coup leaders?
As the Chair of the SADC Organ on Politics, Defence and Security it is incumbent upon the South African government to lift the veil of secrecy cast over our government’s role in Lesotho’s precarious political position and give South Africans answers. I thank you. [Time expired.]
Mr S D BEKWA (ANC)
Mr S MOKGALAPA (DA)
CELEBRATING THE LIFE OF TATA MADIBA
(Member’s Statement)
Mr S D BEKWA (ANC): Hon Deputy Speaker, the ANC celebrates the life of our beloved Tata Madiba, our former President Nelson Rolihlahla Mandela, as we endorse September as National Tourism Month. We welcome the announcement by Minister Hanekom on the development of an interactive map highlighting places that are linked to the former President’s social and political legacy.
This map can be accessed via the internet at www.mandela.southafrica.net and provides information for all South Africans and tourists to visit Tata Madiba’s birthplace, Qunu in the Eastern Cape; some of the places where he was arrested, such as Howick in KwaZulu-Natal; as well as Robben Island where he was incarcerated.
One can also visit the house where he lived with his family in Vilakazi Street, Soweto. This house is a moving tribute to the incredible struggle for freedom.
As the ANC, we encourage all South Africans to take time to become tourists in their own country and visit these historical sites and attractions as we look forward to celebrating and honouring the Father of the Nation under this year’s theme for the tourism month, Tourism Transforming Lives. I thank you, Speaker. [Applause.]
Mr L M NTSHAYISA (AIC):
Mr S D BEKWA(ANC)
LACK OF CO-OPERATION BETWEEN THE TRADITIONAL LEADER AND THE WARD COUNCILLOR
(Member’s Statement)
Mr L M NTSHAYISA (AIC): Hon Deputy Speaker, let me start by saying that, as the AIC, we are very perturbed by the manner in which the business of this House is being conducted or run.
I think we are a national Parliament and we are supposed to behave as such. Really, the people who have sent us here will always look negatively at upon us. I wonder if there is any remedy that can put an end to this behaviour.
It has been of great concern to the AIC that there is a lack of co-operation between the traditional leaders and the ward councillors. This is because it always results in the lack of services that are supposed to be delivered to our people.
We are of the view as the AIC that if these municipal wards can be determined according to traditional leader’s and ward councillor’s areas of jurisdiction, these people can be made to work together and co-operate, and once again the role of a ward councillor and the traditional leader will be clearly defined. [Time expired.]
Ms S MCHUNU (ANC)
Mr L M NTSHAYISA (AIC)
ANC CONGRATULATES THE PROGRESSIVE YOUTH ALLIANCE
(Member’s Statement)
Ms S MCHUNU (ANC): Hon Deputy Speaker, the ANC congratulates the Progressive Youth Alliance, PYA, on their overwhelming win in the recent Wits Student Representative Council elections. The Progressive Youth Alliance won 9 seats out of 15 in a highly contested election and defeated rival student organisations.
This victory over other organisations in the Wits SRC elections is testament to the confidence of students in the capacity of the ANC-aligned student formation as convened by the Progressive Youth Alliance. Once again, the students and young people of Wits have proved that the ANC is the only vehicle that can deliver a better life for all. [Applause.]
Wits students rejected in large numbers the pseudo-revolutionary and unruly EFF students, by not giving them a single seat. Clearly students have seen the mumbo jumbo theatrical politics that have been displayed by the EFF in the Parliament.
This is a rejection of the unbecoming tendency in Parliament to seek to erode the order and decorum of the democratic institutions. The gimmick of hiding their bling lifestyle under red overalls is also being exposed and rejected by the young people. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr Mc PHERSON(DA)
Ms S MCHUNU (ANC)
NATIONAL CREDIT REGULATOR, NCR, FAILURE TO PROTECT VULNERABLE DEBTORS AGAINST RECKLESS LENDING PRACTICES OF AFRICAN BANK
(Member’s Statement)
Mr Mc PHERSON (DA): Hon Deputy Speaker, the regulation of credit approval is vitally important to maintain a sustainable credit market in South Africa.
The majority of citizens require some form of credit whether it is to buy a car, a house or even just to make ends meet. The country is plagued by credit lenders who prey on those who are vulnerable due to circumstances. It would appear on the face of it that the National Credit Regulator, NCR, is failing to protect the people of South Africa from these dodgy lenders, the latest being African Bank.
The South African Reserve Bank had to step in and pump in R7 billion to keep the bank afloat. The bank will now be the subject of a commission of enquiry, which we believe must include the role of the NCR in the saga.
In a recent question answered by Minister Davies regarding the NCR’s role in African Bank’s collapse, he revealed that the bank was allowed to issue credit to customers leaving them with R50’s worth of disposable income, yet little or no action was taken by the NCR.
The only intervention the NCR ever made was to negotiate down a fine imposed on African Bank from R300 million to R20 million. Whose side is the NCR on?
The situation came after the loan book African Bank Investments Limited,. Abil, became toxic because customers could not pay the interests. Customers were given credit which they simply could not afford.
The question that no one can answer today is: Where was the NCR in all of this? It seems impossible that African Bank could have gone in such a direction, lend credit and then become toxic while the NCR was totally unaware of anything. [Time expired.]
Mr S P TSOLELI (ANC)
Mr Mc PHERSON (DA)
RUSSIA REPATRIATES OF REMAINS OF STRUGGLE HEROES
(Member’s Statement)
Mr S P TSOLELI (ANC): Deputy Speaker, the ANC welcomes reports from the Presidency that South Africa is in discussions with Russia on the repatriation to South Africa of the remains of outstanding heroes of our struggle buried in Russia.
As we mark heritage month this year, we are heartened by the fact that the South African government continues to lead efforts to ensure that those who would have paid the highest price for the liberation of South Africa and her people, are never forgotten. Comrades such as Moses Kotane, J B Marks and Ivor Jones are just a few of these exemplary heroes and heroines whose names continue to reverberate throughout the archives of our history, telling the story of selflessness, dedication and commitment to the course of freedom and democracy.
We call upon all South Africans to celebrate Heritage Month this year by once again recommitting themselves to the ideals of equality, freedom and a better life for all that so many people in the country and abroad fought for.
It is these stories of perseverance and triumph that anchor our decisive and sustained actions to build a national democratic society as we move South Africa forward. I thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, this concludes Member’s Statement. Are there any Ministerial Responses? Hold on — apparently because the APC did not take their slot and we will have to proceed in a certain order, so we will do that.
Mrs D ROBINSON (DA)
Mr S P TSOLELI (ANC)
CORPORAL PUNISHMENT AT INDEPENDENT SCHOOL IN MPUMALANGA
(Member’s Statement)
Mrs D ROBINSON (DA): Hon Deputy Speaker, in this day and age it is unacceptable that corporal punishment is still being practised at schools. Cefups Academy, an independent school in Mpumalanga, has had its doors closed by the department because it has been plagued by the incidence of corporal punishment which unfortunately led to the death of a pupil.
It is outrageous that learners are subjected to such criminal procedures whilst the school is aware that it is in contravention of the Schools Act and the Constitution of South Africa.
How are we going to create a democracy that is free of violence when those to whom parents have entrusted their children are blatantly ignoring all relevant legislation!
The DA will ask the Human Rights Commission to investigate this incident and in this House we will ask the hon Minister of Basic Education, Angie Motshekga, to intervene to ensure that all guilty persons face the full might of the law. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr J A MNGXITAMA (EFF): Deputy Speaker, 12 September 2014 marks the 37th year since the brutal murder of Steve Biko ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, pardon, we have had one too many. So the number has been exceeded. We have had the required 15 statements.
Mr G A GARDEE: Hon Deputy Speaker, you have already made the mistake where he was not allowed to read his motion. He was told that it was a statement. Now that it is the statement time, you say you have made a mistake.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hon member, you are quite familiar with this particular requirement. We have filled it up. It is a mistake. It is I who must take the blame.
Mr J A MNGXITAMA: It is okay, Deputy Speaker. Steve Biko lives!
MINISTERS’ RESPONSES
Mr J A MNGXITAMA
NATIONAL CREDIT REGULATOR, NCR, FAILURE TO PROTECT VULNERABLE DEBTORS AGAINST RECKLESS LENDING PRACTICES OF AFRICAN BANK
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Deputy Speaker, I would like to try to respond to two questions and, maybe also, say something in my capacity as the Acting Minister of the Department of International Relations and Co-operation today.
First of all, I want to say that there are two forms of regulators of financial institutions in this country. The first one is the prudential regulator, namely the SA Reserve Bank, which is responsible for the stability in the financial sector. The second regulator is the National Credit Regulator, NCR, referred to by Macpherson, which is a market conduct regulator.
I think that it’s not the case that the market conduct regulator, the National Credit Regulator, was weak in regard to African Bank. We gave the hon member a comprehensive list of all the interventions that they had made.
I think a reduction of a fine in response to a negotiation around whether or not there should be a settlement or whether there should be a procedure with a court process, is a very normal practice in a court or judicial-type process. Therefore I don’t think there was any attempt to be soft on this bank.
Let me also say that in the course of this experience, among other things, we detected a number of weaknesses in the National Credit Act, which is why it was amended in the last Parliament. There are new affordability regulations, amongst other things, which will be put in place very shortly. There will be a new cap on maximum interest rates.
We are deeply concerned about trends in the economy of our financial institutions preying on low-income people. We detected this trend as one of the subsets of the expansion of unsecured lending.
We are now detecting it in the practices of retail shops, which are actually making most of their money out of financial lending and not the retail business. So we are committed to strengthening the role of the National Credit Regulator because there is a serious indebtedness problem in this country.
One of the successes of the National Credit Regulator was that it went to Marikana, after the incident there, where there were a dozen micro lenders that were lending to people. Most of these micro lenders were noncompliant and a number of them were fined.
The NCR went back there recently and found that many of them were actually not as noncompliant as they used to be. This is a major problem and we are committed to solving it.
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE
The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY
RUSSIA REPATRIATES REMAINS OF STRUGGLE HEROES
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: Hon Deputy Speaker, and to the member who raised the issue of repatriation of the remains of the late Moses Kotane and J B Marks.
We want to say that this is in line with our national liberation heritage and we will continue to do that because it teaches South Africans about our own history and our own heritage as a people. It is also in line with honouring the heroes and heroines of our struggle.
The Constitution enjoins us to recognise the injustices of the past, but also to continue to honour those who suffered for freedom in our land. I thank you.
The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE
84-YEAR-OLD GRANDMOTHER FALLS INTO HOLE DUG BY COMMUNITY TO ACCESS GROUNDWATER
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Deputy Speaker, it doesn’t require one to have studied and passed rocket science to know that South Africa today is very different from South Africa under apartheid. It needs no amount of study to realise that fact, and thus we would assert, as the ANC, that this country has advanced substantially from the past that we inherited in 1994.
Therefore, we would definitely express great sorrow at the tragic loss of a senior citizen in Limpopo. It’s very tragic and of all us must mourn and regret such an incident. It is a shocking and horrific and should not have occurred, but it cannot be used for political commentary. It’s something that we must attend to in order to improve and expand the infrastructure development that we have had in our country.
If we are so short of ideas that the sad death of a person is all we can utilise for political armour, then, indeed, our political trajectory is a sad one. Thank you. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY
CORPORAL PUNISHMENT AT INDEPENDENT SCHOOL IN MPUMALANGA
TEN PRIORITIES IDENTIFIED FOR EDUCATION
PUBLIC-PRIVATE PARTNERSHIP RESULTS IN COMPUTER DONATION TO SCHOOL IN NELSPRUIT
(Minister’s Response)
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Deputy Speaker, I will respond to two of the statements.
We reject with contempt the corporal punishment that has been executed. It is criminal, unconstitutional, illegal and unethical.
The following steps should be taken immediately: Criminal charges must be brought against the perpetrator; and the SA Council of Educators, SACE, must initiate proceedings immediately to deal with this violation of the human rights of a child.
In regard to the statement of Mr Radebe, as a Ministry and in collaboration with the MECs for Education, we have identified 10 priorities, three of which emerge from his statement: the focus on rural development; the importance of information and communications technology, ICT, in education; and collaboration with the private sector.
The statement itself is an indication of the fact that in order to enhance access to information and opportunity, particularly for our rural children, it’s important to provide ICT.
We have created a very sophisticated platform for ICT. Our entire curriculum content has been digitised and our workbooks are digitised and the foundation phase is already interactive.
We are busy with the architecture of an education cloud through which we hope all our learners would have access to voice-overs and multimedia free of charge. Already more than 60% of our citizens have access to a cloud which has been created by Vodacom as well as Telkom and, in fact, is a positive step towards utilising ICT to enhance the quality of the curriculum.
Finally, just to mention that all our courses at university, in terms of teacher development, incorporate ICT as an important part for integrating technology in the application of the curriculum.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
COMMENTS OF DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE ABOUT PUBLIC PROTECTOR BEING CIA AGENT
(Minister’s Response)
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Deputy Speaker, I reject the allegations about what I said on Sunday in the newspapers. I refer all others to the record.
I stand my ground on the point that she was never a member of uMkhonto weSizwe. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member! Hold on, hon, Deputy Minister. Hon members, who shouted “You are an idiot”? I mean, this is out of order.
Mr D J MAYNIER: Speaker, I shouted “idiot”, because the hon Deputy Minister of Defence is an idiot for saying what he said. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Deputy Minister, are you finished? [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: On a point of order, Deputy Speaker. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I am going to come back to this and rule on this. May I be allowed to come back to it? Finish your remarks, hon Deputy Minister.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: I am done.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: You are done? Okay.
Dr C P MULDER: Hon Deputy Speaker?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon member.
Dr C P MULDER: Deputy Speaker, because of the interjection, the Deputy Minister ended his speech by saying that he denies he said that the Public Protector is a member of uMkhonto weSizwe. That’s what he said and Hansard can show that. So did I understand the Deputy Minister correctly? Is that what he wanted to say to the House?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, go ahead.
Mr M T KUBAYI: Deputy Speaker, it is actually shocking to see a member of the House rising boldly, as the hon Maynier has done ... [Interjections.] ... to simply say to another person, who is an adult - not even to speak about it being a member - that he is an idiot. He must withdraw and apologise.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, we have a choice here of our language gradually deteriorating into serious insults. You will not be able to cope with that and I am suggesting that ... [Interjections.]
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Hon Deputy Speaker! Hon Deputy Speaker!
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I haven’t recognised you and you are already speaking.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Okay, but will you recognise me immediately after you have finished speaking?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Take your sit, hon member. You know that you will be recognised. Take your seat. [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE EFF: Thank you very much.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: And don’t do that again. I am warning you not to speak before you are recognised because you know it is not done.
Hon Maynier, the language you choose to use in the House has a direct effect on what will happen next in the House. And I would like to suggest strongly that you desist from using that language in the first place because it’s incorrect for you to do that.
If you have asked a member to respond in the House and you call him an idiot, you are directly inviting language that will not be acceptable in the House. Do you recognise that, hon member?
The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Hon Deputy Speaker, could I have your attention please?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon Minister.
The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: I thought that the hon member from the ANC pointed out that the language used by hon Maynier was unparliamentary and, therefore, requested you to ensure that it was withdrawn.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, I will come back to this matter and rule on it. [Interjections.] Hon member, I recognised you and then I will speak on it.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Hon Deputy Speaker, the Deputy Minister of Defence and Military Veterans is misleading this House. He did say that Thuli Madonsela is a spy of the CIA, and now he comes here to lie to this Parliament and then we leave it at that.
We must not agree to have such things — to be misled every day and then have to go through a long process. He must account for why he is accusing the Public Protector, the head of a Chapter 9 institution, because of the findings that she has made in terms of the President of the Republic. He must withdraw the lies that he has told to this House, please.
UNPARLIAMENTARY LANGUAGE
(Ruling)
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I want to deal with both of you, hon members, starting with hon Maynier. I would like you to withdraw your reference to the Deputy Minister as an idiot.
Mr D J MAYNIER: Deputy Speaker, with respect, I am not going to withdraw my remark because I am simply saying what most South Africans believe about the Deputy Minister’s statements in respect of Thuli Madonsela, the Public Protector.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, if you refuse to withdraw the remark, then you are requesting me to request you to leave the House. If you refuse ... [Interjections.] If you refuse!
Mr D J MAYNIER: Deputy Speaker, I refuse to withdraw my remark that the Deputy Minister of Defence is an idiot, because he is an idiot. [Laughter.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I have heard you, hon member. You are defying the Chair and I request you to leave the House. [Interjections.]
The member, having disregarded the authority of the Deputy Chair, was ordered to withdraw from the Chamber for the remainder of the day’s sitting.
The member thereupon withdrew from the Chamber.
Hon Shivhambu, you are not supposed to say an hon member is lying.
HON MEMBERS: He is lying! [Interjections.]
Mr J S MALEMA: He is lying, he is lying!
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Deputy Speaker, may I be given guidance on how to tell the House that the Deputy Minister is lying because he is lying. How do I say it? He is not telling the truth. How do I say it? What is the parliamentary language to say someone is lying? If it is an issue of semantics, please guide me.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you are not supposed to say that a member is lying, unless you bring a substantive motion.
Mr J S MALEMA: Deputy Chair.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, you can’t speak before I recognise you.
Mr J S MALEMA: On a point of order.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes? You can’t speak before I recognise you, hon member. [Interjections.]
Mr J S MALEMA: I am not speaking, I am calling for order. I am not speaking. [Laughter.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, don’t put words in my mouth.
Mr J S MALEMA: I am calling for a point of order, I am not speaking! I am rising on a point of order. I am not speaking. May I be recognised, Chair?
The DEPUTY CHAIR: No!
Mr J S MALEMA: No, you can’t deny me. [Interjections.] What do you mean no? [Laughter!] A point of order is part of the Rules and is allowed in this House.
The DEPUTY CHAIR: Yes —if the Speaker or Deputy Speaker recognises you.
Mr J S MALEMA: Can I be recognised on a point of order?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Not now.
Mr J S MALEMA: When are you going to recognise me? [Laughter.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No! [Laughter.] Hon Malema ...
Mr J S MALEMA: No, no, no, Chair, you must not chair the meeting like that.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, let me explain to you: You see ... [Interjections.]
Mr J S MALEMA: No, I’ll sit down as long as you recognise me. I have no problem sitting down.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes. [Laughter.]
Mr J S MALEMA: Recognise me because I want to attend to this Deputy Minister. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please sit down, hon member. With respect, please sit down.
Mr J S MALEMA: Hon Deputy Speaker, the Deputy Minister is lying because he said, and he is not denying it, that Thuli had handlers — and that makes her a spy. And then he comes here and wants to play innocent when he repeatedly called Thuli a spy.
We are not going to come here and carry on as if the Deputy Minister has not misbehaved. If there is any person who must be asked to withdraw and apologise, it is the Deputy Minister and not the hon member of the DA. [Interjections.]
Mr B MANAMELA: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, on what point are you rising, hon member?
Mr B MANAMELA: My concern, Deputy Speaker, is that essentially you are allowing hon Malema and hon Shivambu ... [Interjections.]
Mr J S MALEMA: But Chair, on a point of order: I rise here, calling for a point of order and you don’t recognise me. I insist on speaking and then the next thing the ANC calls for a point of order and you recognise them. [ Interjections.]
Mr B MANAMELA: We must indicate, Chair ... [Interjections.]
Mr J S MALEMA: We cannot allow this type of thing in this House! [Interjections.]
Mr B MANAMELA: Yes, but we must indicate, Deputy Speaker, that there is no one who has a monopoly on causing chaos in the House, and we cannot allow a situation in which the Deputy Speaker, who is presiding over this meeting, is being defied. I am not going to allow that. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, just let me say this to you: Before I proceed, hon Malema, we request here that we be respected. In other words, if you want to speak and object, as you have been telling us in the House here, allow us to give you the opportunity to do that. If you rise and you start speaking immediately, you are creating disorder. Okay? [Interjections]
No, it does not matter who it is. Hon members, it has always been ruled in this House that making unsubstantiated allegations against the integrity of any member is unparliamentary; neither may improper or unworthy motives be imputed to any member.
This House has, by resolutions adopted on 16 September 1997, confirmed that a member who wishes to bring any improper conduct on the part of another member to the attention of the House should do so by way of a separate substantive motion comprising a clearly formulated and properly substantiated charge; and unless there is such a substantive motion, members should not be allowed to impute improper motives to other members or cast personal reflections on their integrity as members or verbally abuse them in any way.
Members, therefore, may not make insinuations or accusations of improper conduct on the part of their fellow members except by way of a properly substantiated motion.
I appeal to hon members — and I want to restate what was stated then — that hon members, therefore, should not allege there was improper conduct by other members, unless they have evidence of such improper conduct which they should bring to the attention of the House by way of a substantive motion. Otherwise, the House will degenerate into mudslinging.
This is what we are trying to avoid. Whatever you believe, whether you are right or not, it is only proper that here, in the House, the manner in which we conduct ourselves must at least be exemplary of how we would expect ourselves and others to be treated not only in the House, but also elsewhere. If we do not take that approach, people will resort to unacceptable things.
We cannot accept it. There is no basis or any excuse for this, no matter who believes what about whom in this House.
This is my plea. Hon members, I suggest we proceed.
THE LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, the request here is that I withdraw the statement I made which I am not willing to do. This was reported in the media and it is a public statement that that is what the Deputy Minister said. That is common cause.
My difficulty here is that when the Deputy Minister was given the opportunity to respond, he in fact did not respond to my statement. So I want to get a clearer understanding of whether he did in fact make those statements.
My request is: Is he willing to accept the comments? Does he agree with them, is he in fact willing to withdraw them? If not, it leaves us with no choice. [Interjections.] I want to get clarity on that. [Interjections.] He can’t respond on a different question.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hold on. There is an hon member who has already requested to speak. I will give her the opportunity to do that. We will come back to that. Go ahead.
Ms M T KUBAYI: Deputy Speaker, while noting that you have made a ruling on the conduct of hon Maynier, I have a further request. Unfortunately I did not do Afrikaans therefore I can't pronounce Afrikaans words … [Interjections.] … but I just want to request that the words he used, and his insistence, is not only just an issue of being unparliamentary. It is an insult to a member of this House and I would like to request recourse on behalf of the Deputy Minister who is a member of the ANC.
I request that as the Presiding Officer you follow this up and we request recourse on behalf of the Deputy Minister because he has been insulted. Not only have unparliamentary words been used against him, he has also been insulted.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members it has been brought to my attention that the Deputy Minister of Defence would like to respond. Go ahead, ntate.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE AND MILITARY VETERANS: Hon Deputy Speaker, on Saturday, 6 September 2014, in White City Jabavu, we were unveiling the tombstone of one of our heroes who fought for this struggle.
The journalist who published that article in The Star on Monday was not at that event. He used secondary documents which we have arecord of and if people want to have the records of what happened and what I said on Saturday, I have those records.
I stand by my statement that I made on Saturday at that event at White City. What was happening in the newspapers? If people read it correctly, there is nowhere in The Star where there is mention made of the Public Protector being a central intelligence spy.
It is just a headline written by a person who was not there; and he has admitted to my SMS saying yes, indeed he was not present at that gathering, so we are reading something written by a person who was not present at that meeting.
I therefore stand by my statement that I reject the allegations leveled against me and I stand by my statement that Thuli Mandonsela, the Public Protector, was never a member of uMkhonto weSizwe.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, there was one slot still left. Where is the Deputy Minister of Human Settlements, Where is she? There is one last slot, hon Deputy Minister.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
The DEPUTY SPEAKER:
CO-OPERATION BETWEEN NEDLAC AND OTHER STAKEHOLDERS TO ACHIEVE INCLUSIVE GROWTH
(Minister’s Response)
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: Deputy Speaker, we welcome the statement by hon Fubbs. Indeed, looking for solutions in our country in the interest of its people has always proven to be a winner. We did it in 1994 when we ushered in democracy and we did it when we formed the National Economic Development and Labour Council, Nedlac.
We did so again in 2009, when we were dealing with an economic crisis together with Nedlac and we believe that Nedlac can still assist us to deal with the challenges that we face today.
There is a continuous call for a social dialogue with the public. We are repeating again that Nedlac was formed in order to be a social dialogue forum to deal with economic matters and we believe that it shall continue to do so.
Indeed the call for all of us as South Africans is to always remember, when the country is facing a challenge, to form a collective effort. This is very important. Thank you. [Applause.]
RULING
MINISTER’S RESPONSE
UNPARLIAMENTARY LANGUAGE
(Ruling)
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members, earlier on I restated a ruling that was made in the past and I would like to repeat it in this way. Both Hon Shivambu and hon Malema repeated the statement about the hon Deputy Minister lying. The Rule says that you cannot say that another member is lying and I would like both of you to withdraw those statements.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: What was the instruction Deputy Speaker, I did not hear it. Can you please repeat it?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: That you withdraw, your reference to the Deputy Minister having lied.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: I withdraw the word “lying”.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: The word “lying” I withdraw but he is not telling the truth. [Laughter.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, it cannot be a conditional withdrawal. It is an important thing, please — we are not children.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Okay. If I am going to withdraw the word then it must be known that he is not telling the truth. I withdraw the word.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hon member.
Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Okay. I withdraw.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay. Hon Malema?
Mr J S MALEMA: Chair, I withdraw. [Laughter.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you.
Mr G A GARDEE: Chairperson, may I ask a question? Can I address you on one matter, hon Deputy Speaker?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: On what matter, hon member?
Mr G A GARDEE: How does one say a member is not telling the truth, so that we should next time know how to say it if he is not telling the truth. Can you help us?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you were in the House when I read the statement and I would warn you that you must not do that again because you know what the Rule says. I stated here explicitly that you must do so with a substantive motion so that we do not have people making allegations that may prove to be incorrect.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order, we waste so much time in these afternoons explaining everything to the EFF. Could we arrange a training seminar for them so that you can explain the Rules to them. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, you yourself will be a worthy member of such a workshop because you are disrupting the House. [Laughter.]
SUBJECT FOR DISCUSSION
MINISTERIAL RESPONSES
THE SIGNIFICANCE OF NATIONAL DAYS IN THE PURSUIT OF NATION-BUILDING AND SOCIAL COHESION
(Subject for Discussion)
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Deputy Speaker, it is 20 years into our freedom and democracy and we ought to take a moment to reflect objectively on the progress we have made as a country. We have achieved a lot; and a lot that should not have been done has been done.
From our glorious heydays of unity in diversity in 1994, we have descended into an unprecedented collapse of national unity.
In 1994, we ventured into foreign waters which called on all of us to put our shoulder to the wheel and make a meaningful contribution towards the building of a new and progressive South Africa. We charted a new vision for a new South Africa. In 1996, we strengthened our collective resolve to this end when we adopted a unifying Constitution.
When we tired along the way, we took refuge in our Constitution. In fact, our Constitution has been the wind under our wings as we strive each day to achieve meaningful nation-building and social cohesion, because we understand that the divisions and social cleavages of the past will best be rectified through unity and common purpose.
National days are an integral part of this relentless pursuit of nation-building and social cohesion because they remind us of our past and motivate us into the future. National days are the glue which keeps all us together because, in one way or another, they hold personal significance for all South Africans.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon member! Will those hon members who are leaving the Chamber do so quietly, so that we can give the speaker at the podium a fair hearing. Thank you.
Mr M HLENGWA: Every South African has a freedom-day story to tell about April 27; every South African has a Workers’ Day story; every South African has a June 16 experience to share; every South African has a Mandela Day experience on July 18; every South African is alive to the realities of August 9; every South African has a heritage to embrace on September 24; and every South African has a responsibility to reflect on national reconciliation on December 16. This is part of our daily life as a country.
This is the South African experience; the South African story. It is our past and it is our future. It is a legacy that belongs to all South Africans and is the very basis of our pursuit of nation-building and social cohesion. Whilst we may differ on many fronts and subscribe to divergent persuasions, national days unite us.
How then do we reconcile this ideal with the sad reality of national-day celebrations and commemorations being monopolised to the detriment of nation-building and social cohesion? It has become standard practice for national day celebrations to become ANC functions, incurring abuse of state and government resources. ANC songs reverberate throughout these functions and ANC supporters heckle and boo representatives from opposition parties.
This country is doomed if we embrace the conflation of government, state and party. Government and state functions and events are exactly that; they are not ANC functions. The ANC is not the government, nor is it the state; it simply happens at this point to be the party in governance. This difference must be asserted or South Africa will end up being neither fish nor fowl.
Prince Mangosuthu Buthelezi, from this podium, made a notable observation that best diagnoses the problem of national disunity and the reversal of our gains. He said, 20 years ago, words like rainbow nation, miracle transition, freedom and reconciliation filled the public discourse. However, under this leadership, those words have become Marikana, scandal, protest and corruption.
Also from this podium, President Jacob Zuma inadvertently highlighted the problem when he said:
Sorry, we have more rights here because we are a majority. You have fewer rights because you are a minority. Absolutely, that’s how democracy works. So, it is a question of accepting the rules within democracy and you must operate in them.
This fundamental misinterpretation of democracy has found expression in endless government functions where blatant abuse of taxpayer’s money fulfils the ANC’s need for self-promotion and political hegemony.
When rights are dispensed through an us-and-them mentality, equality and unity are negated, while nation-building and social cohesion are utterly destroyed. Thus the very events which are meant to unite us actually divide us. They have become the exclusive domain of the ruling party.
The narratives, facts and scripts of history are rewritten before our own eyes to suit the propaganda of the ruling party in governance as being our sole liberator. This negates the role of other parties, churches, traditional leaders, NGOs and friends of human rights and democracy the world over. We have made a mockery of our history, and this mockery plays itself out every time a national day is commemorated.
Therefore, these national days manufacture little more than tenderpreneurs, lining the pockets of friends and cronies at the expense of the poor, vulnerable and suffering. They are filled with fanfare and food parcels. However, when they are over, our people go back to poverty, pain and suffering, with no meaningful change to their lives. Only two things have happened: tenderpreneurs have made money and the ruling party has enjoyed a free propaganda exercise.
We must rise above the petty political divides and propaganda which characterise these national celebrations. Not everything is about the ruling party and alienating everyone else and dividing this nation. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Ms X S TOM
Mr M HLENGWA
IsiXhosa:
Ms X S TOM: Sihlalo, ndiyabulela ngeli thuba olinike lona i-ANC ukuba iphefumle kulo mba. Kwingxoxo zikaKhongolose xa kwakuqulunqwa indlela eya enkululekweni, kwaye kwaphuma umqulu othi ‘Sikulungele ukuLawula’, “Ready to Govern”. Kulo mqulu kwacaciswa ngokungathandabuzekiyo ukuba ubungqondo-gqwirha borhulumente wocalucalulo eyona nto wawutshatshela ngayo kukuncothula neengcambu inkcubeko yethu, iilwimi zethu, imbali yethu nobuthina.
Eyona nto yayilumeza ngelo xesha, nesalumezayo nangoku kukuba imbewu yona yocalucalulo eyafakwayo ngelo xesha isahluma nangoku. [Kwaqhwatywa.]. Siyayibona loo nto kwaye asiyiyo into esifuna ukuyixelelwa leyo. Sihlalo, ibalulekile into yokuba siyijonge ngeliso elibukhali le ngcambu ikhulayo kuba iza kwenza singakwazi ukudibana kuba icaciswa mhlophe eyokuba masimanyane ukuze sibheke siphambili. Ingxaki nesimanga kukuba lo ucinezelweyo wolula isandla, aze umcinezeli abaleke nesandla sakhe.
English:
Hon speaker, it is important that we all understand where we come from. Apartheid not only separated South Africans on the basis of colour, but it also made black people to be non-citizens of this country.
It also dehumanised them and if you dehumanise a human being you kill that person’s soul. That is why the ANC made it a point that it not only redeems but also restores the soul that has been killed by the apartheid system.
Instead of perceiving diversity as a threat, the ANC is making sure that we make diversity a strength so that we can begin to talk and move closer to each other.
South Africa has a very painful past. The ANC, as I said, is not of the view that this history must be obliterated. Rather, it believes that this history must be used to teach the future generations about things they should avoid in future. Things that have happened to us must not happen again because, as the people who were at the receiving end of that cruel system, we will not forget, but we want our future generations to pay heed to what we did.
It is indeed true that South Africans remember Sharpeville, June 16 and many other massacres with pain. However, through these days this government teaches us tolerance and the values of Ubuntu, and it teaches us to treat other people with dignity and respect.
For one to treat other people with dignity and respect, one has to respect oneself first. These days are used as a measure of how the South African society has progressed since 1994.
The ANC believes strongly in robust debate and the culture of engagement. Even though it was the ANC that came with a blueprint of reconciling all South Africans through national days, it engaged other parties. It never just took the decision, but engaged other political formations and all citizens, and current national days came out as a compact between the state and its citizens. It is the duty of every citizen to ensure that we give meaning to our democracy.
Let us take this opportunity that is being provided through these days to reflect not only on the past, but also on the future so that we build a magnificent future for the future generations. As has been correctly identified by the ANC government’s National Development Plan, NDP, South Africans are still divided.
The ANC government believes that the national days play a major role in fostering collective values of South Africans. As the ANC we believe it can be done. This can be done. As the Chinese proverb says: The person who says it cannot be done must not interrupt the person who is doing it.
As our former President Nelson Mandela stated during one of the debates in this House, and I quote:
Let us harness the nation’s energies to move rapidly and develop and construct our country. In this way our society will experience meaningful and lasting reconciliation.”
National days entrench reconciliation. They build our society and foster social cohesion. I thank you.
Dr G A GROOTBOOM
MS X S TOM
Mr G A GROOTBOOM: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, the hon Leader of the Opposition and hon members, when we talk about the significance of national days in the pursuit of nation-building and social cohesion, we are talking about heritage.
Heritage is about tying the past and the present together to take us as a nation into a collective future. However, what does this mean to us as a young democracy that has moved into young adulthood? Have we reached that stage where we freely exchange ideas and feelings about our past? Looking back at our past, I want to agree with Sam Sheppard when he stated that:
There’s no way to escape the fact that we’ve grown up in a violent culture; we just can’t get away from it; it’s part of our heritage. I think part of it is that we’ve always felt somewhat helpless in the face of this vast continent. Helplessness is answered in many ways, but one of them is violence.
Firstly, we have to rid ourselves from that perception of our past. We have to create a nonviolent society and move away from our divisive past as advocated by our past President Nelson Mandela when he said that the time for the healing of the wounds had come.
Secondly, apartheid divided us racially. However, the heritage that we celebrate can never be an extension of our violent past nor our racist past. National days must be used to conscientiously deconstruct the ideas, stereotypes and feelings of distrust and aversion that we have for one another.
We are a new country, we are a new nation and we must acknowledge our shared heritage. But we must continue to create a new heritage from this past, which is littered with racism, violence, exploitation and intolerance, and move to a dynamic and vibrant future.
The DA believes that our present and certainly our future do not belong to one racial or cultural group alone, and it certainly does not belong to one political party.
It is the government’s duty to this nation to bring South Africans together, especially when it is about our shared heritage. By mostly recognising ANC-aligned struggle heroes, the government is insidiously cultivating a divisive spirit. That should not be what punctuates our shared national identity. When we can move away from this divisive spirit, our nation will indeed take another step closer towards unity.
It is thus incumbent upon us, especially as politicians from across the political spectrum, to build rather than lambast our Chapter 9 institutions, which include the Public Protector. These are part of the very institutions that were formed in the wake and at the birth our new democracy. To attack them is an indictment of their function to protect democracy and root out corruption and tyranny wherever it may be.
When we celebrate Youth Day as a national day, we should remember that young people all over the country, black and white, were part of the struggle for a free South Africa. Let us not forget the Cape Flats uprising of 1980, where those of us who are old enough to remember witnessed unspeakable unrest which cannot belong to any one party or any one people.
When our ancestors had big social events, they had music that facilitated a sense of social cohesion and personal agency, in sometimes chaotic and conflicted social circumstances. Our present national day celebrations should therefore also seek to build on those expressions. The DA notes that South Africans, as a nation, have accepted that our destinies bound together.
The celebration of national days is there to drive the process of cultural inclusivity and strengthen a movement to an inclusive heritage. Arts and culture, with specific reference to heritage, should therefore not be reduced to a project or programme of government to lock out those who are not ANC affiliates. It should instead be a move of bringing people together by fostering a better understanding of one another, and of growing together to forge a new cultural identity borne from our different cultural identities.
Indeed, the DA and all South Africans say that our heritage belongs to all South Africans. The Department of Arts and Culture has the enviable position to cultivate nationhood and to set the tone on how we move forward to achieve that unity as a nation.
The understanding should therefore remain that our national days are nonracial. Therefore, they should not be used as political rallying days. When we do that as politicians, we are driving people into the corners of our past. To herald the new dawn of a new nation, let us create that hope, that future and that heritage. It is our duty, as politicians of this august House. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr N S MATIASE
Mr G A GROOTBOOM
Mr N S MATIASE: Hon Chair, we have been called upon to reflect on the significance of national days and on their contribution to social cohesion and nation-building. The question that we ask is: Through the reflection of whom and for the interest of whom are we called upon to make such reflections?
The EFF believes that a nation that forgets its past is a doomed nation; a nation that forgets its heroes is a dying nation; and a nation that praises its oppressors is a nation that is on a one-way ticket from the sublime to the ridiculous.
Historically, 16 December was observed as an apartheid public holiday to celebrate the defeat of Dingaan and all the heroes of the African people in the quest of colonisers to dispossess Africans of their land. From this day on, we grew up as black people to be assaulted and chased around everywhere, in the countryside, on farms and street pavements, by the people with whom we are now expected to reconcile and to observe the Day of Reconciliation — and we are expected to believe in importance of public holidays.
It is important to underscore that it was on 16 December 1961, when uMkhonto weSizwe, MK, was formed, the day which coincides with the celebration of Dingaan’s Day. The meaning of the day when MK was formed, brought relief to the oppressed African people in that they had a different cause to celebrate on 16 December. This was a celebration which underlined the commencement of the armed struggle to reclaim the stolen land.
However, today this day is called the Day of Reconciliation. How reconciliatory is this day, when from among the ranks of the former MK, there are those who talk war, who use violent speech and who threaten to kill defenceless political opponents with bullets?
The hon Charles Nqakula and hon Kebby Maphatsoe are on record as making such violent threats. In the committee, established to look into matters concerning the EFF, hon Nqakula made serious threats against the Chief Whip of the EFF, hon Shivambu.
With the might of his military MK behind him, and with his skills and the skills to visit harm upon those they are aiming at, he put it verbatim in the committee that violence shall be visited upon hon Shivambu.
This is a former guerrilla of MK. [Interjections.] Where is the impartiality of a judge who, from the onset positions himself as being partisan?
Hon Kebby Maphatsoe, a Deputy Minister of Defence, who is today chickening out, has access to military-intelligence files and the armoury of the country, so he can make public statements as reckless and irresponsible as he has made about the person of the Public Protector. In fact, he has been quoted as saying that in our country today there is a revolutionary situation, and thus calls upon former MK guerrillas to ready themselves to take up arms. He claims the situation currently warrants the taking up of arms because the situation is reminiscent of the 1961 call that brought about the formation of MK.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon member, your time has expired.
Mr N S MATIASE: All we can say to these gentlemen and their peacetime freedom fighters is that …
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon member, your time has expired!
Mr N S MATIASE: … that which they are wanting to visit upon us, they must be ready to meet in the streets. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick)
Mr N S MATIASE
WELCOMING THE DRC MINISTER OF HYDRAULIC RESOURCES AND ELECTRICITY, KAPANDJI KALALA
(Announcement)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Hon members, before I recognise the next speaker ...
Hon member, will you take your seat please. Hon member of the EFF, you may return to your seat. I am not calling you back to the podium — there is an announcement I wish to make. [Laughter.]
Hon members, I wish to recognise in the gallery the Democratic Republic of Congo, DRC, minister of hydraulic resources and energy, hon Kapandji Kalala, who has just signed the energy agreement between the Republic of South Africa and the Democratic Republic of the Congo that also covers the Grand Inga project. [Applause.] You are welcome, sir.
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK)
Mrs L L VAN DER MERWE: Hon House Chairperson, I wish to thank my party for placing this motion on the Order Paper for it is indeed a matter that goes to the very heart of our democracy. It is with a sense of awe that one considers the many successes of our diverse nation over the past 20 years.
Our national days, such as the Freedom Day, should therefore be celebrated by all South Africans in the pursuit of nation-building and social cohesion. They should evoke the spirit of ubuntu and tolerance which characterises our progressive Constitution. Yet, instead of evoking tolerance, these days are increasingly being used by the ruling party for its own purposes. This is wrong and it must change.
There are many examples one can site, but I vividly remember how the closing ceremony of the 16 Days of Activism campaign held in the North West province in December 2012, turned into a pre-Mangaung rally. Not only did it exclude the voices of the opposition parties, but the function descended into chaos as former Deputy President Motlanthe and President Zuma’s supporters became very vocal in punting for their leadership of the ANC. Even Correctional Services officials joined in the pre-Mangaung funfare.
Earlier this year, I was fortunate enough to attend the Human Rights Day celebrations in Gauteng. Arriving there, one could have been forgiven for thinking that I had mistakenly arrived at an ANC rally. Throughout the day ANC supporters were bussed in in scores of buses and opposition speakers were booed. Hon House Chair, is this what we call nation-building or is it exhibiting intolerance?
These were government functions paid for by the taxpayer. This politicking should not have been allowed under any circumstances. We reported this North West matter to the Public Protector who has since received many similar complaints.
Let me also take this opportunity, on behalf of the IFP, to condemn in the strongest terms the alleged comments made by the hon Deputy Minister of Defence and Military Veterans that our Public Protector is a Central Intelligence Agency, CIA spy. This is completely unacceptable.
Hon Chairperson, this begs the question: Do national days belong only to one party and would the ANC not also cry foul if they were subjected to the same actions that we, the opposition parties, have been subjected to? These actions point only to one thing, the abuse of taxpayer’s money, and we must act now to safeguard our democracy.
Increasingly, the line between the state and the ANC is eroding and, by default, this is also eroding the fundamental values of our hard-won democracy.
In 1953, Alan Paton, speaking on liberalism and tolerance, said:
By liberalism I don’t mean the creed of any party or any century. I mean a generosity of spirit, a tolerance of others, an attempt to comprehend otherness, a commitment to the rule of law, a high ideal of the worth and dignity of man, a repugnance of authoritarianism and a love of freedom.
This sums up some of the values our national days should espouse; if not, our fledgling democracy will continue to falter along the path to social cohesion and nation-building. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M S MABIKA
Mrs L L VAN DER MERWE
Mr M S MABIKA: Hon Chair and hon members of the House, in regard to the question of how national days contribute to nation-building and social cohesion, firstly we need to understand that of some of our national days are inherited whilst others were created at the advent of our democracy.
Secondly, we understand that one of the primary functions of national days is to unite people by creating visual, verbal or iconic representations of our values, goals and history.
When reflecting on our national, days we note that of the 12 South African public holidays, one is neutral and universal, which is the New Year’s Day, whilst Christmas Day and Good Friday are Christian-based. These religious public holidays have sparked debate in South Africa and are viewed by some as being contrary to nation-building, as no provision is made for the recognition of other religions and days of significance for other religious communities such as Shembe and others.
The remaining seven of our public holidays relate to our shared history as South Africans. We therefore submit that it is these holidays which are most relevant to nation-building and promoting social cohesion. In South Africa, the Department of Arts and Culture is the custodian of national days and has the duty of promoting our national days in such a way that these days contribute meaningfully to nation-building and enhance social cohesion.
The NFP submits that we need to consider the role of civic instruments such as our Constitution and various charters when discussing the concept of nation-building. Such instruments admittedly do not have the symbolic gravitas of national days. We, however, as the NFP, believe that they are more likely to find resonance across all sectors of our diverse society than many of our current national days.
The NFP further believes that the Department of Arts and Culture needs to do more to enlighten South Africans about the significance of these days in a way that is accessible to the majority of South Africans, young and old. This should be an ongoing process in accordance with a well developed plan of long-term, systematic action.
In addition, the NFP believes that the current number of national days sufficiently speaks to the needs of South Africans for days on which we celebrate our shared history. [Time expired.]
Mr N L S KWANKWA
Mr M S MABIKA
Mr N L S KWANKWA: House Chair and hon members, this debate is important because it comes at a time when national days and the holidays that come with them seem to be losing significance. An increasing number of people view national holidays as nothing other than an interlude away from work.
IsiXhosa:
Isizathu sithini? Masiyithethe. Masiyithethe ngemizekelo singabi siyimkhumsha le nto. Masenze umzekelo, sithi kunyaka ephelileyo, ngosuku lokubhiyozela uSuku lamaLungelo oLuntu, olwalubanjelwe ePaarl, umfana wePan Africanist Congress ...
English:
... used the platform to attack the government ...
IsiXhosa:
... waze uMongameli Zuma wathi xa ethetha wathi ayiloqonga lokwenza njalo elo. Olu suku lelo kwakha ...
English:
... unity and social cohesion. Fast forward to 2014 Freedom Day celebrations.
IsiXhosa:
... ngoku sigqiba ama-20 eminyaka yenkululeko. Bekukho uSodolophu phaya, endicinga ukuba ngowaseGauteng.
English:
He was supposed to propose a vote of thanks to Madiba. However, instead of proposing a vote of thanks, he turned that into a campaign speech for the ANC. Now, the same President Zuma, when he took the podium, did not condemn that.
IsiXhosa:
Umngeni ubengowokuba impazamo yenziwa yimibutho ephikisayo kunyaka ophelileyo.
English:
We were also expected to join in and pronounce that the national days are used in pursuit of nation-building.
IsiXhosa:
Maze ingajiki ke ngoku xa isenziwa yi-ANC ingabuzwa ze xa isenziwa yeminye imibutho siyikhalimele.
English:
The other issue which is very important, remember we have limited resources ...
IsiXhosa:
... siyazikhwelela, siziqeshele ngokwethu iindawo zokulala, kwezi ndawo, siphinde singanikwa qonga lokuthetha kule mibhiyozo, sifike sikhedame, sithule sithi cwaka. Sibukele urhulumente we-ANC ethetha yedwa ecengceleza umqulu wezithembiso zayo zolonyulo, sithule sithi cwaka kungabikho nto esiyenzayo. Nathi kaloku sineeconstituencies sinyulwe ngabantu sizinkokeli.
English:
They want to hear us.
IsiXhosa:
Kaloku alonyulo yimini yoluntu loMzantsi Afrika, hayi i-ANC. Ngoko ke awukwazi ukuthetha nge-ANC okanye ulonyulo. Ndithi ke ngoku kwiimini ezinjalo abantu bakuthi bafuna ukusiva nathi ukuba ...
English:
... how do we encourage them? What kind of message will we give them?
IsiXhosa:
... ukuba ezi mini sizisebenzisa njani ukwakha uMzantsi Afrika womntu wonke. Ndizama ukuthi musani ukuluma nivuthela ohloniphekileyo Buti Manamela, inyaniso mayibekhona naxa isihlangu sisitya wena ekonsini. Enkosi. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
Dr C P MULDER
Mr N L S KWANKWA
Dr C P MULDER: Hon House Chair, the hon Hlengwa, who brought this motion to the House today, was absolutely correct in what he said. I think we should listen to what he said. He explained and gave a clear indication of how the celebration of national days is perceived by many South Africans.
If he is wrong, then we must talk about it, but he would not have brought the topic to the House if there wasn’t this perception. Also, this perception is absolutely correct because in her speech the hon Tom said the oppressed extends the olive leaf to the oppressor, but the oppressor must come on board.
However, the IFP is clearly not the oppressor. The IFP and other minorities are experiencing national days in this way and you must take cognisance of that. This debate is about nation-building and social cohesion and we have had many debates on this topic. We had the conference at Kliptown about two years ago which was quite important.
I am very happy that the hon Minister Arts and Culture is present because we have not succeeded in South Africa in solving this whole question of nation-building and social cohesion. The question is: Why?
Quite often it is said by the ruling party that it has succeeded in doing this and doing that, etc, but they have failed in one very important respect. I am afraid I must say that the ruling party, the ANC, has failed in this respect because they did not succeed in unleashing the positive power and energy of all the people in this country.
The emphasis and the focus is always on the ruling party’s view of what is happening in South Africa, the ruling party’s view of history and the ruling party’s view of where we should go. Other people also have good ideas. They also have certain ideas that should be taken on board if we are serious about nation-building.
Maybe the ruling party should understand that if you walk outside, 4 out of every 10 people you see do not support the ruling party. Four out of every 10, and they come from a range of different communities in South Africa!
The recipe for nation-building has been wrong. What was that recipe until now? We are stumbling from one sporting event to the next — that is their recipe for nation-building. It started off with the World Rugby Cup in 1995, the Cricket Cup in 2001 and the bid for the Olympics in Cape Town, the 2010 Fifa World Cup.
Every time when we got one of those events, people would say it is wonderful. The spirit is fantastic, but a few weeks afterwards, we are back where we were. The recipe is wrong.
The real recipe is to stop paying lip service to the whole concept of our diversity. Recognise that reality and let us deal with it, and you will be surprised at the kind of positive attitude you will unleash in South Africa. Then this country can become what it is supposed to be, the locomotive of Africa.
At the moment we are definitely not that. We are lagging behind and other countries are passing us by. Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE
Dr C P MULDER
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: Chair, I don’t know if the hon member is saying that we must not talk about the past because he says we are always talking about the past, so do we have to forget our past?
National days provide the nation with an opportunity to reflect and remember events, episodes and people that have played a significant role in shaping the democratic and peaceful character of our country. They are designed and meant to unite and bring people from different cultural, political, gender, racial, religious and creedal backgrounds together in order to forge a common nationhood and build a cohesive society.
We are to rebuild our lives and address the challenges that we experienced both socially and economically, for example, poverty, jobs, education, health and many more.
We must remember that freedom did not come easily. People lost their lives and suffered by being discriminated against and oppressed, and we will always go back to that so that even the generation to come must know where we come from.
On such days, all parties are invited. Everybody! It is a government occasion so we are all invited; and those who choose not to come do so on their own.
In order for us to achieve the ideals mentioned above, we approach each national day or month with specific objectives.
The Human Rights Month or Day inculcates the human rights ethos and culture in our society. We use Freedom Day to celebrate and promote the appreciation of freedom and democracy and encourage active participation in the governance of the country. We must always remember that this freedom came with pain. We had a long road to travel and that is why we commit ourselves to rebuilding the country.
The aim of Youth Day is to appreciate the supreme sacrifice made by the youth of 1976, and to encourage the youth of today to envisage and build a united and prosperous South Africa.
The youth of today are faced with different challenges. They always say it’s cool to take drugs and do wrong things that will destroy them, but now is the time for the youth to discourage such tendencies and see education as a weapon that will enable them to build their lives and this country.
We use Mandela Day to encourage South Africans to popularise and emulate all the positive values and principles that President Mandela epitomised.
Women’s Day gives us an opportunity to celebrate the successes and achievements attained by various generations of women as well as to focus the attention of the nation on the challenges that still confront them.
Tshivenda:
Riṋe vhafumakadzi ri kha ḓi vha ro kandeledzwa. Riṋe vhafumakadzi ri kha ḓi tambula, ri kha ḓi rwiwa, ri kha ḓi itiwa zwoṱhe zwi songo fanelaho. Zwino ri fanela u lwa nazwo ngauri a zwi athu u fhela. Nndwa i tshe khulwane. Ri kha ḓi nyadziwa kha vhutshilo hashu. Zwo fanela uri ri lwe heyi nndwa. A ri i lwi ri roṱhe. Ri lwa na vhenevha vhane vha khou ri kandeledza. Ri lwa na vhenevha vhane vha khou ri shengedza uri kha vha vule maṱo avho. A vha zwi vhoni na uri tshifhinga tsho fhira? A hu tsha vha hetshiḽa tsha kale. Hezwi ri tshi ri ro vhofholowa ri amba ro vhofholowa roṱhe, vhafumakadzi na vhasidzana. Ri khou zwi vhona, vhafumakadzi, vhasidzana na vhananyana vhashu vha khou vhulaiwa ri sa ḓivhi zwauri mulandu ndi mini? Hu khou itea mini? Heḽi ḽimuya kha ḽi fhele, kha ḽibve. Ri ḓo lwa, na vheiwe vha vhanna ni ri thuse u lwa heyi nndwa ya vhana vhashu vhano khou soko u vhulaiwa.
English:
Heritage Month and Heritage Day provide the platform to promote and popularise our heritage in its all its multifaceted forms thus showcasing and celebrating our diversity as well as our common cultural heritage.
Just recently — last week — we were celebrating our National Book Week and we emphasised not only reading books, but we also focused on indigenous languages that seem not to be a priority. Even the books that we distributed were also written in the indigenous languages.
We will also provide books according to the province and the languages that are spoken there. So it is up to us to emphasise the fact that indigenous languages are important.
Mandela once said, and I quote:
If you talk to a man in a language he understands, this goes to his head. If you talk to him in his language, that goes to his heart.
That is why we emphasised the indigenous languages.
The Month of Reconciliation allows us an opportunity to encourage the spirit of reconciliation across families, race, colour, gender, ethnic, creedal and class spectrums.
It is very important that all of us build this country and on these days we should share and we should enjoy. We should be able to lead the nation in saying, “This is where we are going”. When we are invited and when everybody is invited, we all need to come and add our voices to saying this and giving hope to our people.
Tshivenda:
A ri kuvhangane ri vhe tshithu tshithihi. Heḽi shango ri nga si ḽi fhaṱe ri roṱhe. Ri ḽi fhaṱa ri na tshitshavha tshoṱhe. Ndi a livhuwa.[U vhanda zwanḓa] Zwi tea u itea.
English:
AN HON MEMBER: Why is it not happening? You are not doing it.
Mr M G P LEKOTA
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE
Mr M G P LEKOTA: Chairperson, the first point I would like to make in the House is that national days are for all the people of South Africa, and that the budget that is used for them is the budget of the people of South Africa.
For a start, I want to focus my attention on the opposition parties: We must insist on our right to participate in the preparations for every national day because the money that is budgeted for that is the money of the nation. [Interjections.]
Therefore, we must not just sit back and complain about the ruling party. We must go and say that we are entitled to have representation and to know what the budget is for the Day of National Reconciliation. We want to know what proposals have been made and we want to be able to make suggestions, and we must insist on the right to do that.
I don’t think that the ruling party can resist that. There is nowhere in law where it is said that they, exclusively, must decide. So we must not sit back and complain. We must stand up and take responsibility. [Interjections.]
Yes, we must take responsibility. [Interjections.] Why do you want to make it your property? There is legislation for it — it’s in the Constitution, it’s there in the law and we are not asking for a favour to be able to do that. [Interjections.]
The second point that I would like to make, which is the most important point, is that all the politics that I have ever learnt that matter to me I learnt in the ANC. UMkhonto weSizwe was the army set up to wage the struggle on behalf of all the people of South Africa, black and white.
Now, today it is no longer there because when we reached the agreement, the ANC through President Mandela insisted that all the liberation formations should be merged together with the old SA Defence Force together so that what was the SA Defence Force, SADF, became the SA National Defence Force, SANDF.
The defence force that is defending this country is comprised of all those who were available and willing to serve in defence of their country. That is not the SA Defence Force of old. Therefore ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon member! Your time has expired.
Mr M P G LEKOTA: I am sorry, Chair, But, I do want to say that it is wrong to use the name of the MK to threaten the citizens of this country. [Applause.] [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T Frolick): Order, hon members! [Interjections.] Order!
Mr S M JAFTA
Mr M G P LEKOTA
Mr S M JAFTA: Chairperson, the idea of the nation-building and social cohesion speaks to the glue that holds a society together, especially a society of such national and cultural diversity as South Africa.
After the first democratic national elections in 1994, the national holidays were changed to days that would be meaningful to all South Africans in pursuit of the nation-building and social cohesion.
Hon Chair, it is the manner in which we celebrate these days that will unite or further divide the people of South Africa with different backgrounds and cultures. Instead of building the nation when celebrating these national days, our political parties and leaders take an advantage of mobilising people and promoting themselves and their policies. In doing that sometimes much criticism is leveled at other parties and their leaders.
Can we say that that is working towards nation-building? No, it is not. The truth is that we need to do more than make speeches and addressing rallies. We must encourage our communities to respect each other and to live together as a rainbow nation.
It is not the way in which we hold up our different political parties’ flags, how beautiful our party T-shirts are or how well we sing our freedom songs that will unite South Africans, but the way in which we stick to the purpose of the national days as envisaged after 1994. The celebration of Women’s Day on 9 August should be the same as the celebration of Reconciliation Day on 16 December.
Every citizen of South Africa must contribute towards shaping a new South Africa through meaningful celebration of all the national days.
Hon Chair, our commitment to uniting the people of South Africa will also be measured against our behaviour and the tolerance we show each other in this House. I thank you.
Ms A LOTRIET:
Mr S M JAFTA:
Ms A LOTRIET: House Chair, the National Development Plan, NDP, views nation-building and social cohesion as strategic elements to make South Africa a successful country. It is also clear from the NDP that achieving social cohesion and national unity is an all encompassing process in which all sections of the citizenry and all spheres of government have a role to play.
It is also important to understand that social cohesion and national unity can only be achieved in a context of social inclusion. Social cohesion means that citizens must feel that they belong, that they have the opportunity to prosper, that they are respected, especially by the government. They should not feel that they are left behind or forgotten.
However, Chair, can it in all honesty be proclaimed after 20 years of democracy that every citizen in this country experiences a sense of belonging; a sense that an individual has of, this is my country; I am welcome here regardless of my race, my religion, my language, my own cultural heritage, or my political affiliation.
It is easy to say we are all South Africans, but it rings hollow when your commitment to the country, your patriotism, is judged on the basis of your party affiliation. It’s then that there is no claim of social cohesion. If there is no sense of belonging created by how we accommodate everyone, we are not working towards belonging, but towards isolation and marginalisation.
The NDP states that dealing with unemployment, poverty and inequality is critical to building social cohesion. Therefore, if your daily existence consists of a struggle trying to survive, where you are overwhelmed by poverty, unemployment, where even the most basic services such as water provision is not provided by the government, your sense of social cohesion and being part of a national identity are the last things on your mind.
National days to foster social cohesion are then nothing more than a superficial effort to plaster over gaping cracks, and we are not creating national unity. As many speakers have said, many of these national days are in any event nothing more than ANC rallies paid for by the taxpayer.
You are quite right, hon Deputy Minister, that speakers are invited to participate in these events but the reality is that the speakers of the opposition parties are often rudely shouted down and not given a chance to convey their messages. And even worse, the leaders of the governing party do nothing to protect the opposition party speakers! [Applause.]
However, the most worrying of all is what happened this year on 21 March 2014, when buses with DA supporters on their way to Sharpeville to commemorate Human Rights Day were stoned by ANC supporters. [Interjections.]
Hon Tom, is that the kind of tolerance that the ruling party is advocating and promoting? Is that social cohesion? I don’t think so. There is no place in social cohesion and nation-building for the political intolerance that we are increasingly witnessing.
Social cohesion requires inclusion, but the question is: Do these celebrations of national days include all of the citizens and their respective cultures or beliefs? Or is it selective on the basis of what is acceptable to the governing party?
If we are selective about what is considered to be acceptable, proper and politically correct, we will have an artificially constructed social cohesion and national unity, for example, a history that only recognises the contribution of the ANC in the struggle for liberation and negates that of everyone else.
It will be a history made to fit a specific purpose without reflecting the soul of all the people who have traversed many and various roads to reach the destination of our liberation.
Social cohesion and nation-building require recognition as opposed to rejection. Recognition refers to respecting and tolerating differences in a country where we have a variety of cultures, languages, orientations and political affiliations.
It requires a government prepared that will listen if the citizenry speak out when things are wrong, and not brand them as counter-revolutionaries or CIA agents.
Chairperson, we are sadly mistaken and misdirected if we believe that a few national-day events will on their own create social cohesion and nation-building. There are still too many instances of exclusion, marginalisation, disregard and neglect.
House Chair, the government must fix the basics, stop corruption, lead by example and follow the rules that apply to everyone. Only then will we have real social cohesion and national unity that we can celebrate on national days. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr J L MAHLANGU
Ms A LOTRIET
IsiNdebele:
Nom J L MAHLANGU: Sihlalo namalunga ahloniphekileko, namhlanje sikhuluma ngendaba eqakatheke khulu, indaba yoku gidingwa kwamalanga wenarha. SingamaSewula Afrika sisoke, siyazi bona sivela kuphi begodu kungakho kuqakathekile bona amalanga abekwe abaphezulu ahlonitjhwe begodu aziswe.
English:
Earlier on, the Deputy Minister indicated that we celebrate Mandela Day on 18 July. On this day, the United Nations, UN, and the community of the world celebrate the icon, Nelson Mandela.
What should we say about Nelson Mandela? Should we say Nelson Mandela was not a member of the ANC? So, we are celebrating a member of the ANC, the President of South Africa and of the ANC and indeed, a South African. We have a reason to celebrate him.
Celebrations occur on the occasion of the 100th anniversary of the ANC. The United Nations ... [Interjections.]... Secretary General made an announcement in which he said, and I quote:
The ANC is more than a political party. It is a movement and a tangible expression of a vision. The commitment and sacrifice of its members led to the emancipation of a nation from racist colonial rule.
[Applause.]
Indeed, the whole world was celebrating the ANC. We have a reason to celebrate the ANC.
Let me then come to the issues that the opposition parties have raised. They are saying that national days are celebrated as ANC days or ANC rallies. [Interjections.] It takes a skill to listen, okay!
We celebrate national days and I want to make a nice example. Last year, Women’s Day was celebrated in Bushbuckridge in my province, Mpumalanga. We had IFP members and their leaders in attendance. They had an opportunity to speak and they spoke. Who applauded the president of the IFP? The people who attended the event and they happened to be members of the ANC who were in the majority. [Interjections.]
Now I come from Mpumalanga and all of you are aware of the road called Moloto Road. Whenever there is an accident on Moloto Road, several people die. When we bury them, 80% to 90% of those people happen to be members and supporters of the ANC. What does that mean? If you take a sample of 100% and you ask how many people of that 100% are ANC supporters, it would be between 70%, 80% or 90%. [Applause.] [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Order, hon members!
Mr J L MAHLANGU: Some of those that are shouting on my left here have never attended a single national celebration. [Applause.] And they have the audacity to come here and shout.
We celebrate human rights, because the world over has accepted that South Africa has the best Constitution in the world and all of us have a reason to celebrate. Our Constitution confers the rule of law upon all of us so we have a reason to celebrate.
We have a reason to celebrate Freedom Day because 20 years ago, the people of this country, led by the ANC, went to the polls for the first time to vote for a majority government. We have a reason to celebrate. [Applause.] Surely, you may not be happy about that situation, but I have a word for the IFP. We heard that they were saying that after 20 years, the ANC gave people food parcels and whatever, but there is no development. [Interjections.]
The IFP was in charge of KwaZulu-Natal for years. Up to today, some of those people are still without water. [Interjections.] Did they have water in 1994? The answer is no! Indeed, as a country, we continue to move forward and we have a reason to celebrate. [Interjections.]
We have a reason to celebrate Worker’s Day and not the red overalls in this House. [Interjections.] The reason why we need to celebrate Worker’s Day is because workers and the vanguard of the movement, as well as the trade unions, are expressing solidarity with workers, not the workers that we see here who actually never worked. [Interjections.]
We have a reason to celebrate Heritage Day because this is a day on which all the communities of South Africa, with their different identities, are mobilised behind one cause. We do have a rainbow nation, freedom of speech and we have a reason to celebrate. [Interjections.]
Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Hon Chair.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Yes, hon member.
Siswati:
Mnu A M MPONTSHANE: Sihlalo, ngicela kwenta sicondziso. Bengicela kubuta kutsi angawutsatsa yini umbuto?
English:
Mr J L MAHLANGU: I can take any question, but I do not have enough time. The setback our national days is nonattendance ... [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr C T FROLICK): Order, hon members! Continue, hon member.
Mr J L MAHLANGU: The setback in regard to the national days is nonattendance of the opposition parties and their supporters. [Interjections.] If you attend, you can find an opportunity to speak and to address the nation. I thank you for the opportunity. [Applause.]
Mr M HLENGWA
Mr J L MAHLANGU
Mr M HLENGWA: Hon Chair, I think the hon member is a bit confused, you know. He says that we do not attend, but he also told us that we did attend. The problem is that the ANC members are unruly and they misbehave. [Interjections.]
They heckle and boo everybody else who is not ANC at these functions. They have monopolised these functions for their own gain and for their own good.
Of course, on the other issue of the KwaZulu-Natal government, you must remember that President Zuma was the MEC for Economic Affairs and Tourism in that province. He did a dismal job, you migrated him to the national government and he has done worse. [Applause.]
The point I want to emphasise is that the ANC must learn Basic Politics 101. [Laughter.] There is a difference between the state and the party in government. [Applause.] There is a fundamental difference. Let it sink in and let it subside. Absorb it, understand it, internalise it and then live it out, so that you do not reverse our gains by monopolising these national days.
They do not belong to you. They belong to all South Africans yet we have to put up with being bullied by the ANC every time we attend these functions.
I want to thank the hon members of all the political parties who are sane enough to understand the issue that we are raising. To those that did not, we can meet them outside and take them through it again — what we are trying to say is that we understand some are slow on the uptake.
We have taken five steps forward and 10 steps back at every one of these celebrations.
I want to say that we must revisit the issue of these military wings who are masquerading as if they are a demigovernment on the side - a parallel structure of government, bulling everybody.
It is a threat to the nation-building of our country and social cohesion when we have people who think they have a monopoly. [Applause.] Then they come here and say that they are going to sort us out. [Applause.] The nerve, cheek and audacity to say that the head of a Chapter 9 institution is a spy, undermines this very Parliament. Then members stand up and say, “Let us defend him, let us defend him!”
This is a type of failure to differentiate between the state and the party.
My parting shot is: We have a collective, national responsibility to debate how we celebrate and commemorate these national days. It is high time that national days become about South Africa, because every other effort at nation-building collapses if we don’t do that.
We must rely on this glue to keep us together. We must rise above the petty political divides of propaganda and it must begin with the ANC understanding that they are not the government and that they have just been wrongly entrusted with that responsibility to govern … [Laughter.] [Interjections.] … and now we have to put up with that. [Applause.]
On that note, do not abuse the responsibility that you have been given because you will reverse our gains. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The House adjourned at 16:58.
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