Hansard: NA: Questions for Oral Reply: Cluster 2: Social Services
House: National Assembly
Date of Meeting: 03 Sep 2014
Summary
No summary available.
Minutes
UNREVISED HANSARD
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 3 September 2014 Take: 135
START OF DAY
WEDNESDAY, 3 SEPTEMBER 2014
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
_________
The House met at 15:02.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
The SPEAKER: The first item on today’s Order Paper is questions addressed to the Ministers in the Social Services Cluster. Members may press the “to talk” button on their desks if they wish to ask a supplementary question. The first question has been put by the hon S M Jafta to the Minister of Health.
Ms K LITCHFIELD-TSHABALALA: Hon Speaker, I am asking for permission to address you.
The SPEAKER: You want to address me on what point, hon member?
Ms K LITCHFIELD-TSHABALALA: On yesterday’s Minutes, hon Speaker.
The SPEAKER: No, hon member. This is the time for questions to the Minister of Health, the Social Services Cluster and that is where our focus is going to be.
Ms K LITCHFIELD-TSHABALALA: But they are not a true reflection of yesterday’s events.
QUESTION 64
|
The SPEAKER
Question 64:
The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Speaker, in reply to the question, Matatiele forms part of the Maluti subdistrict, which is part of the Eastern Cape province. There is no intention by the Eastern Cape department of health to punish the people of Matatiele as a result of their wish to be part of KwaZulu-Natal province. The mandate of the Department of Health is to render the required health services to the people of Matatiele, as we do elsewhere, and that is what the Department of Health intends doing.
The subdistrict has a total of 19 clinics. Unfortunately the operational manager posts in 12 of the 19 clinics remain vacant in spite of all the efforts by the department of health in the Eastern Cape to recruit and retain professional staff.
This problem of the inability to attract staff to rural areas is not only a problem in Matatiele, but a problem in all the rural areas in South Africa and even in other parts of the developing world. It is a subject that is usually discussed at the World Health Assembly in Geneva every year, when Ministers of Health meet; how do you deal with problems of staffing in rural areas of this world. Solutions have been proposed. there is even a resolution on human resources by the WHA in an effort to deal with this issue.
I am giving this background to the hon member so that he can understand that some of the health problems that may be experienced by our people in Matatiele also occur in similar settings around the world, and have nothing to do with the boundaries between KwaZulu-Natal and the Eastern Cape, as the hon member is suggesting.
If, however, the hon member is deliberately reducing every single problem of human experience to being caused by boundary problems between provinces, I do not think we should join that member in that fruitless and misleading crusade.
As a department, we will prioritise the filling of posts of operational managers and all other staff needed by our health facilities. It is for this reason that over the past 18 months we have sent teams to all our clinics in the country to calculate staffing norms, in line with a formula determined by the World Health Organisation. The formula is called Workload Indicators of Staffing Needs, WISN. We have just finished all our primary health care facilities, and what is left is implementation; to be done as soon as we finish with the tertiary and quaternary levels.
Acting allowances are paid out to all acting managers, in line with the existing policy, ie, when a post is vacant and funded. All clinics in the subdistrict are operated by professional nurses.
The Nyaniso Clinic has been approved and the rebuilding process is scheduled to start this financial year. Thank you.
Mr S M JAFTA
|
The MINISTER OF HEALTH
Mr S M JAFTA: Hon Speaker, I disagree with the Minister that the Eastern Cape province is given the support that it is supposed to be given in the area of Matatiele up to Maluti. I am sure that the Minister visited the area and has seen the state of the clinics in the area, especially those in the rural areas there. I have one or two follow-up questions.
Firstly, having seen the conditions at those clinics, what measures does the Minister have in place to save the situation and, secondly, how will he ensure that the area is given the support that it deserves? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Speaker, I indeed visited Matatiele. I visited several clinics, so I also know what I am talking about. There are two things that are going to happen. The first one was announced by the President during the state of the nation address, which covers big, fast results – Operation Phakisa. It is now with the Department of Environmental Affairs and will then proceed to Health. We have dedicated it to making our clinics ideal in terms of infrastructure, equipment and everything else. The second thing is that we do have a new programme for norms and standards in infrastructure, not only for Matatiele, but for the whole country, and we are busy applying those norms and standards to the whole country in terms of what our infrastructure must look like. That will solve the problem in that part of the country. Thank you.
Dr H C VOLMINK
The MINISTER OF HEALTH
|
Dr H C VOLMINK: Hon Speaker, Matatiele has 1 hospital, 1 TB hospital, 19 clinics and 2 mobile clinics. Given its population, it should have 5 hospitals and 43 clinics, leaving a backlog of 3 hospitals and 22 clinics. In addition to rebuilding the clinic that was destroyed by the tornado, will the hon Minister tell us precisely when the construction of the additional 3 hospitals and 22 clinics will be completed, or will the people there have to languish under the slow march of bureaucracy. Thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Speaker, I do not know what formula he was using to calculate these 5 extra hospitals, clinics, etc. [Interjections.] Yes, I am not sure, but in the Department of Health, for the past three years, we have been mapping all health facilities to prepare for the National Health Insurance, NHI. If he comes to the department, I can show him the map. Fortunately, he is a member of the portfolio committee. I will show him what we have mapped for each municipality, district, and village in the country in terms of what is needed. I do not have it in my head that Matatiele needs five, because I do not know what formula he is using. If it is true that this is what it needs according to our formula, then we will go on and do that because the reason may be that we did that because we wanted to rectify the problems. Thank you. [Applause.] [Interjections.]
Ms S J NKOMO
The MINISTER OF HEALTH
|
Ms S J NKOMO: Hon Speaker, my question is: What methods are used by the department to attract managers to the health care services in Matatiele and other areas? How does not having these health managers impact on the quality of services?
The second question is whether the department intends rolling out mobile clinics in Matatiele and other deserving areas to alleviate the pressure on the few available clinics. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Speaker, I do not know why I should keep on answering the same question ... [Interjections.]... because I have just outlined here, not only in respect of Matatiele, that the department, in preparation for the NHI, has mapped the whole country using a particular formula. If that area needs mobile clinics or permanent clinics, etc, it would show in that structure and we will do something about it. That is why, in the manifesto of the ruling party, we said we were going to build 216 clinics, 43 extra hospitals and renovate 816. It is because we have plans, and all we need to do is to be patient while we implement those plans. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms K LITCHFIELD-TSHABALALA
|
The MINISTER OF HEALTH
Ms K LITCHFIELD-TSHABALALA: Hon Speaker, while a clinic is set up to treat mild to moderate health care problems and while it might contain some diagnostic machinery, the truth is that it is never enough. It is a fact that hospitals provide a more stable and multidisciplinary approach to health care.
It would seem that African governments, including that of South Africa, prioritises clinics over hospitals in blackareas, a critique that some attribute to the borrowing conditions of the International Monetary Fund, IMF,and the World Bank. The question is: Do the South African health outcomes suffer because of reduced health spending, including other health inputs, like a reduced food subsidy, or even reduced public health spending, including a cap on public health salaries? All of these, coincidentally, happen to be conditions placed upon Third World countries when they borrow money from the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank. Thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Speaker, I do not know this model of yours, that hospitals are always superior to clinics. Our health care system, which is the system that is encouraged by the World Health Organization, starts from the bottom, at primary health care level ... [Applause.] ... goes up to the clinics and then moves on to the district hospitals, to the regional hospitals to the tertiary hospitals. We are not going to put a hospital in every corner of the country and believe that we are going to call that health care. It cannot be so. In fact, when we release the White Paper on NHI, we are going to show that the heartbeat of the health care system is primary health care. [Applause.]
This means that prevention of diseases and the promotion of health start right in the village. That is why we are busy hiring community health workers for each ward in every municipality. Our health care system is not hospicentric. In fact, what we are talking about is that a hospicentric health care system is actually being discouraged, because it causes an unnecessary escalation of costs, and it does not produce good results. So, our building of clinics is the best health care model in the country. Thank you. [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: Hon members, we have been informed that question 77 has been withdrawn.
QUESTION 48/The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
|
QUESTION 64/The MINISTER OF HEALTH
Question 48:
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Speaker, the answer is that the provision of posts to schools is determined through a formula of post provisioning based on norms ... [Interjections.] It is not? Alright. It is good that you are listening. I thought that you did not even have the capacity to listen, so congratulations. [Interjections.]
So, the provision of posts to schools is determined in terms of post provisioning norms and distributed through post provisioning awards to schools.
Mr M Q NDLOZI: Speaker, on a point of order: The hon Minister is saying that there are people with no capacity to listen. I respectfully think that she must withdraw that. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Minister, did you say that?
Mr M Q NDLOZI: We could not hear what she was saying into the microphone.
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: For what it is worth, I withdraw it so that we can proceed.
The SPEAKER: She has withdrawn it.
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: The vacancies can only be determined in relation to the Gazetted post establishment as determined by these norms. So, as at the end of June 2014, there were 3 202 vacancies in the gazetted post establishment of schools in the Eastern Cape, indicated as follows. There were the vacancies of 59 principals and vacancies of post level 1PL teachers totalling 810. There were 2 400 unfilled vacancies.
To the next question, the answer is that the Eastern Cape department of education has compiled a list of 1 117 critical vacant posts at level 1, which are earmarked for immediate filling. These included mathematics, science, and accounting. About the second part of the question regarding the target for filling all these vacant posts, I sent a memorandum to all provinces, instructing them to fill all these vacant posts by 31 December 2014, so we will be able to report on progress after that date. It is provinces that fill posts, not the national department. The budgets go to provinces. I can only give directives. [Applause.]
Mrs A T LOVEMORE
|
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
Mrs A T LOVEMORE: Speaker and Minister, there are 3 202 teacher vacancies in Eastern Cape schools. Thousands of vulnerable learners in no-fee schools have not had a teacher in nine months – the entire school year this far. [Interjections.] You and the ANC government in the Eastern Cape have been taken to court on this very issue. You were forewarned. Now, we know that the teachers who are available have been assigned to teach Grade 12, but what, Minister, about every other grade? Are they going to be passed to the next grade despite not complying with learning requirements, or are they going to be forced to repeat their grades next year? Neither option is in the best interest of the child. They need teachers, and they need them now.
This province is under administration, Minister. It is your responsibility. Can you guarantee that this awful scenario will not recur next year?
An HON MEMBER: Three thousand vacancies!
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Speaker, it is indeed the number. When she was at the department, I also explained the processes to her, but I think because we are in the House, she wants her colleagues also to hear the answer.
HON MEMBERS: How about answering?
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: The point, Speaker, which I explained to the member, is that the province had run short of resources. What we did was to go back to Treasury and request it to reprioritise funds to enable the province to fill the posts. Indeed, the Deputy Minister is not even here; he is assisting the province. He is away assisting the province with filling these posts. In terms of intervention – if I can remind the member, because she was here last year – intervention is not everything, members. Do not keep throwing out things that you know are not true.
The interventions look at school nutrition, scholar transport, human resources, and finance. It is not about the filling of posts; just to remind her, for the record. [Interjections.] This matter is being dealt with, and she is aware of that. [Interjections.][Applause.]
Ms N L MASHABELA
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
|
Ms N L MASHABELA: Speaker and hon Minister, 9 out of the 18 schools that scored a zero matric pass rate in 2009 are in the Vhembe district in Limpopo, a direct reflection on the inferior education the ANC government offers the black child, despite its quantitative, claimed victory of a 78,2% pass rate in 2013. Minister, what happens to the learners who are failed by your education system and left without a national senior certificate or any other means to sustain their lives? Tell us, if the 140 teacher vacancies in the Eastern Cape have been filled by permanent teachers, what is the timeframe for temporary teachers to be migrated to permanent employees? [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Speaker, I can say Vhembe is one of the best performing districts in the country and in that province, so I do not know where she gets the 9 out of 18 from, unless she is giving the information. For people to come with an ambush and present numbers that you do not know – I do not know what she’s talking about, but I am sure she knows what she’s talking about. [Interjections.]
What happens with people who have not succeeded? [Interjections.] It is not I who said it. [Interjections.] Do you want me to repeat it? I heard it from that side. Someone said those people are going to join the EFF. No, that is not so. We are going to help them repeat the grade so that they pass and succeed. We really do not throw them out. If they repeat ... [Interjections.]... it is not I who said it! I heard it said on that side, that they would join the EFF if they failed. I am saying that they won’t. [Laughter.] [Appluse.] [Interjections.] We want them to come back so that we can support them and help them pass. Every child is an asset, Speaker. Therefore, we will do whatever we can to help them pass. AS regards these other stories, I do not know what the member is talking about. [Interjections.]
Mr N P KHOZA: Speaker, on a point of order: The Minister must address the question, not the EFF.
The SPEAKER: Hon Minister, your time has expired.
Me D VAN DER WALT
|
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
Afrikaans:
Me D VAN DER WALT: Speaker en Minister, my vraag is in Afrikaans. Ek wil graag hê die Minister moet vir die Huis vertel watter planne sy tans in plek het om die kritieke tekort aan onderwysers in die Oos-Kaap het wie se medium van onderrig Afrikaans is, op te los voor die 2015 akademiese jaar begin, ook in die skole waar ons sien dat leerders wegbly van die skool omdat hulle nie Afrikaanse onderwysers het nie. Dankie.
English:
The SPEAKER: Hon Minister ... [Interjections.] It looks as if the interpreting services were not spot on. [Interjections.]
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Speaker, as I have said, the filling of posts is a provincial competency. So, we should be asking the province of the Western Cape when it will be filling the posts. [Interjections.] Eastern Cape!
Afrikaans:
Ons praat nou van die Oos-Kaap. Ek het gesê ... [Gelag.] Ek het gesê ons werk saam met die provinsie om onderwysers te kry. Die Adjunkminister is daar om met die provinsie saam te werk sodat ...
English:
... they can help to get this issue resolved. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
Mr A M MPONTSHANE
|
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Speaker and hon Minister, I am aware that the original question confines the hon Minister to the Eastern Cape. However, the Minister knows, as I do, that teacher vacancy problems are not peculiar to the Eastern Cape. These vacancies occur for different reasons. In certain instances, you have principals who are displaced from their schools for different reasons, including witchcraft, where communities just chase the principal away.
Some vacancies occur because teacher unions want to pack their schools with one of their kind. They cannot employ any person other than one of their kind.
Hon Minister, my question is the following: If these are the factors that give rise to teacher vacancies, what would be your reaction, especially to teacher unions not wanting any other person to occupy such a vacancy? I thank you.
IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZEMFUNDO EYISISEKELO: Somlomo, uBab’ uMpontshane usengiphendulele eminye imibuzo. Njengoba esho ukuthi lokhu kungenxa yezizathu ezihlukene, okunye kudalwa yizinkolelo, ngakho sizohamba siyochela sihlabe ukuze uthisha abuye. Kuzoya ngokuthi uthisha uxoshwe kanjani, sizokwenza into esaziyo ukuthi izosusa le nto ebasindayo esikoleni kulowo thisha. Sizohamba siyohlaba sicele kwabaphansi ukuthi bavume uthisha abuye. [Ubuwelwele.] Empeleni nje, kunjengoba usho, sizosebenzisa izindlela ezehlukene; kuzoya ngokuthi uthisha uhambe kanjani.
QUESTION 90/The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
|
QUESTION 48/The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
Question 90:
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: In terms of Annual National Assessment readiness, we are as ready as we could be. We are very ready, because we are starting now in this month of September. So, all affected schools and provinces are ready. They have been given all the necessary tools to ensure that they are ready. We will ensure that more than 7 million learners write the ANA tests.
We expect some improvement, which we have been seeing year–on-year. What is very important about the ANA tests is really to help our sector to focus on the level that matters most, which is the foundation phase, and also to get parents to pay more attention and for schools to understand what levels are expected. We don’t only look at the marks as a benchmarking exercise, but the whole sector itself, in order to be able to understand what is expected, level by level. We are expecting improvement in going forward.
In terms of the assessment of ANA markers, we also have a control group. School teachers mark papers, but then we also have an independent body to take sample scripts, because we also need to have an objective assessment of what is happening in schools. We have appointed a control group under the Human Sciences Research Council to do that evaluation for us. ANA is mainly a diagnostic exercise, so its outcomes are treated differently. Thank you.
Mr D MNGUNI
|
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
Mr D MNGUNI: Hon Minister, I appreciate the response given to the House and the strides that you have made. Could the Minister share with the House the experience of previous diagnostic reports of the Annual National Assessment as presented by the department and also the lessons that have been learnt and how that report is used to assist the system to be improved.
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon Speaker, we release our diagnostic report annually. It is found on our website, because it is also meant to guide the whole sector in terms of how we are performing. But, as you correctly said, the Annual National Assessments are diagnostic tests. They help us first of all to be able to group schools, and to identify the schools that need support and those that do not need concentrated support.
For instance, the Gauteng programme, which was run by the previous MEC, was informed by the ANA. She started the programme so that she would know which schools needed her direct support. But it also helps schools to identify needs themselves, because it assesses child by child, grade by grade and area by area to understand if they have to do group teaching, and to see which teacher is good with helping learners to learn to write or to do certain exercises.
It helps schools to develop their own school improvement plans; it helps the district to implement school improvement plans and also to educate our educators about the different competencies required level by level and grade by grade. It has done a lot in terms of just setting the record, stabilising the system and getting us to understand where help is needed and also understanding what skills are required grade by grade and phase by phase. Thank you.
Ms C N MAJEKE
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
|
Ms C N MAJEKE: Hon Speaker, I am not sure if this machine is working properly, because my follow-up question was for question 48, but it is only starting to flash now. Should I continue with my follow-up question? The Chetty Senior Secondary School in Bloemendal in Port Elizabeth, Eastern Cape, is battling with critical teacher shortages, especially in languages, particularly Afrikaans, and this was reported two years ago.
A similar situation has been reported just 150 kilometers from Port Elizabeth, at Pearston Primary School, which saw 123 pupils crammed into a single room due to the inadequate provision of educators. My question, hon Minister, is: Is there a departmental plan to ensure an equitable and subject-based supply of educators in the Eastern Cape? If yes, what are the targets and timeframes to achieve those targets? I thank you.
The SPEAKER: Hon Minister, apparently the hon member meant this for question 48, but her name only came up now. If the hon Minister is able to answer, please do so. If not, then ... “sizocela ucolo kuMadam.” [we would like to apologise to the hon member.]
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: No, I can try to answer. I don’t know the school she is talking about, unless she gives me information about the Pearston Primary Shool. I would be lying if I spoke about Pearston Primary School, because I don’t even know the school. I think the issue, or the question as I see it, is about norms and standards that we are responsible for nationally.
Indeed, there are norms and standards that determine how provinces allocate posts. If there is a problem around a specific school, then it can be brought forward to us and we can interact with the province to find out what the problems are. I am unable to know the different problems in each school and think on my feet, lest I mislead the House. If the member could give me the name of the school, I will check what is happening and get back to her.
Mr M S MABIKA
|
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
Mr M S MABIKA: Hon Minister, may I know if you still have the confidence that indeed the ANA will assist to improve the level of reading and writing and an understanding of mathematics of our children. The reason I am asking this question is because the Readathon has shown proving that these learners, even though they are involved with ANA, still cannot read and write. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon Speaker, ANA means Annual National Assessment. Assessments don’t teach skills. They assess. [Laughter.] So, what they do is to give us a sense of where the problems are so that we can address them. ANA will not make a difference if we don’t make a difference in teaching. It is an assessment tool; that is what it is. [Laughter.]
Mrs A T LOVEMORE
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
|
Mrs A T LOVEMORE: Hon Speaker, Minister, last year you were taken aback at the very low numeracy results, particularly in Grade 9. Only 3,4% of Grade 9 learners were found to be effectively numerate. You had those results independently verified. The verification showed the real results to be even lower than your department had determined internally. In fact, it showed that only 2,1% of Grade 9 learners were numerate, but you went ahead with your original score. If you had not, you would have had to admit a decline in what wasalready abysmal performance.
Minister, why did you ignore the independent verification? And further, will you have independent verification and not moderation of individual papers of the final score carried out on this year’s scores?
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Hon Speaker, ANA is an internal assessment and it is in my interest to know what is happening in each grade. It is not even for public knowledge, so I don’t need to manipulate any score. You are quite right, we were taken aback when we saw the Grade 9 results and that is why this year, for the first time, we are going to assess even Grades 7 and 8 to see where the problems really are, because that is what ANA is meant to do.
In addition to that, I even set up a rapid response team to go and look at the tool used for Grade 9, to check whether the tool or the curriculum was a problem and what the real issues were, because indeed I was taken aback by the results. The rapid response team’s results confirmed that there was nothing wrong with the tool, but that the main problem concerned teaching in the classrooms.
What we have done is that we have prioritised, in terms of ICT, the senior phase because it is quite clear that some of our biggest problems lie with the senior phase. We have taken steps, and if you want to know what we did with the feedback we got from the ANA, we can tell you what all the steps are that we had taken.
The fact that I didn’t make it public, saying I was very disappointed that we had performed poorly at that level, does not mean that I was not taken aback. The problem is, when senior phase learners are supposed to go to the FET phase and choose subjects with their performance at that level, they won’t even qualify for the subject that they choose, or that teachers want them to choose.
We are dealing with the issues, and that is what the ANA is meant to do; give us feedback about what is happening in the classrooms so that we can undertake the necessary interventions. So, I don’t have to manipulate results, because I need pure and honest information. [Applause.]
QUESTION 68/The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE
|
QUESTION 90/The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
Question 68:
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: My department has been mandated by government to lead and co-ordinate Outcome 14 of the 2014-2019 Medium-Term Strategic Framework, MTSF. This outcome puts into effect an implementation of Chapter 15 of the National Development Plan, NDP, that is, Transforming Society and Uniting the Country. The work of my department has been organised in line with Chapter 14 of the MTSF and in line with Chapter 15 of the NDP.
Some of the projects aligned with the NDP are as follows: The establishment of creative industries, incubators that will provide production tools to artists to create local content; the establishment of the Mzansi Golden Market, where the goods and services of creative entrepreneurs can be traded with both the public and the private sector. Over the next three years venture capital will be raised to provide creative entrepreneurs with developmental and expansion capital.
The Department of Arts and Culture has public entities and institutions in the form of museums, theatres and statutory bodies that exist as the implementing arms of the department and report to the department. The relationships between the department and entities are governed by the relevant legislation.
The NDP goals that are relevant to the arts, culture and heritage sector find expression, as we said, in Outcome 14 of the MTSF. Some of the areas in the department that contribute, in line with the NDP, are: firstly, exhibitions at museums and production of theatrical performances are being encouraged to reflect on our past and celebrate our diversity and working towards uniting the country; secondly, the infrastructure programme being rolled out at the museums attempts to expand and create an environment that accommodates the diverse multicultural audiences or visitors to view the exhibitions and plays that showcase the arts, culture and heritage of our society;thirdly, renaming places and institutions has been one of the vehicles the department has used to ensure that historical moments and heritage are retained and respected. This initiative has been regarded as a unifying symbol.
The entities’ development programmes are geared towards addressing issues of quality education, rural development and job opportunities. [Interjections.] [Laughter.] Your excitement will be short-lived. [Laughter.] This is done through awarding bursaries, internships, leaderships and educational workshops in different fields of the arts, culture and heritage sector.
Rural development has been a priority, where exhibitions and plays are brought to communities by touring ventures. Through the infrastructure programmes jobs are created and will continue to be created to address the previously disadvantaged.
Funding is done through the department’s development agencies such as the National Arts Council, National Film and Video Foundation and the National Heritage Council to target the underdeveloped arts, culture and heritage groups. [Thank you. [Time expired.] [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Mnu J L MAHLANGU
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE
|
IsiNdebele:
Mnu J L MAHLANGU: Somlomo, ngithokoza ipendulo evela kuNgqongqotjhe. Umbuzo welandelela ngilo othi: Njengoba sele utjhwile ukuthi minengi imisebenzi eniyenzako kodwana esikutjhejileko kukuthi ezinye zeenkhungo ezikulu okhulume ngazo lapha, azitholakali kizo zoke iimfunda. Isibonelo, eemfundeni ezifana naleso engivela kiso, iMpumalanga, eLimpopo, e-Free State, ne-Northen Cape azikho iinkhungo ezinjalo. Alo-ke ingabe kilokho enihlele ukukwenza singakubona kusenabela nakwezinye iimfunda na? Ngiyathokoza.
English:
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: Speaker, hon member, thank you for the follow-up question. Yes, as a precursor to the incubators’ programme, we are doing empowerment and development projects for film and music, particularly for musicians and film makers who, going forward, will be, together with the Department of Trade and Industry, DTI, given grants to ensure that they write the South African story of democracy in the past 20 years by giving them grants. As I said, this is just the beginning because we are targeting all the provinces. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M W RABOTAPI
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE
|
Mr M W RABOTAPI: Speaker, hon Minister, South African museums are being mismanaged. Robben Island, our most iconic museum, has faced staff strikes, poor quality of service, mismanagement and ferry breakdowns. It is even reportedly struggling to fulfill all the requirements to maintain their Unesco World Heritage Site status. This is a disgrace to our heritage. How can the museums contribute to achieving the goals of the NDP when they cannot even achieve being functional? Hon Minister, when and how is this mess going to be sorted out? [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: Before you get fixated on the mess you are talking about, firstly we need to say that the institutions we are referring to, museums and so on, have been around for the past 20 years. Some of these museums have been functioning and they continue to function. There are those that are not functioning. Those that are not functioning - as you will remember, hon member, we did talk about it during the Budget Vote - we are going to focus on so that we could understand what the problem is.
If the problem has to do with personnel, then we will deal with that; if it is systemic, we will deal with that. But those things you are raising have been raised before and they are correct in some instances, and we will be dealing with it. Thank you. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Ms A MATSHOBENI
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE
|
Ms A MATSHOBENI: Minister, the NDP has completely ignored the creative economic industry and all the recommendations from the Nairobi conference of 2008, including the New Partnership for Africa’s Development guidelines. The question is, why is the Department of Arts and Culture not protecting and regulating this industry? Why are the Ministers of this government treating the well-known Generations crisis as serious simply because some of these actors involved are the ruling party’s election mascots. Surely this crisis symbolizes the cancer in art in South Africa.
Finally, why has the department not transformed former black universities to include quality degrees in art, fine art, music, speech and drama? Why should our children still run to former white universities for these skills 20 years down the line? I thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: There is no aspect of life that the NDP does not talk to. When you talk about arts, culture and heritage, as you said, if you go to Chapter 15, you will see that it is dedicated to this very sector and this very portfolio and that will continue. What we are doing now is implementing that which the NDP enjoins us to do and we will continue to do that.
You are correct in respect of one thing, and that is that we need to do more to regulate the industry. This is what has been started by the department, including providing groundwork relating to what we need to do by reviewing the White Paper on Arts and Culture. That is continuing and is a process that is going to be finalised.
It also touches on the point you are talking about of funding and giving bursaries, particularly in the areas of arts, culture and heritage. Although on a limited scale, those projects are unfolding and we would be happy to share that information. In fact, it is public information. What we would have to do is to accelerate what has been started. Thank you. [Applause.]
QUESTION 57/The MINISTER OF HEALTH
|
QUESTION 68/The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE
Question 54:
The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Speaker, yes indeed, hon member, I can confirm that all hospitals designated by the Department of Health to treat the Ebola virus are in a high state of readiness. All designated hospitals have received guidelines on viral hemorrhagic fever and the Ebola virus disease for dealing with all aspects of diagnosis, isolation, treatment and even management of possible fatalities that may occur due to Ebola virus disease and other viral hemorrhagic fevers.
These hospitals are Polokwane in Limpopo, Rob Ferreira in Mpumalanga, Charlotte Maxeke and Steve Biko in Gauteng, Addington in KwaZulu-Natal, Klerksdorp in North West, Pelonomi in the Free State, Kimberley in the Northern Cape, Frere Hospital in East London and Livingstone Hospital in Port Elizabeth - both of them in the Eastern Cape, and Tygerberg Hospital in the Western Cape. Each of these hospitals has been supplied with a full complement of personal protective equipment, PPE, which consists of a jumpsuit, scrub suit, N95 mask, shoe covers, double gloves and even goggles. There are 50 sets of this protective clothing in each of the hospitals, except Charlotte Maxeke and Steve Biko, that have been given a complement of 100 each and Frere and Livingstone Hospitals, that have been given a complement of 30 each.
What it means is that, for instance, if there is any Ebola in Charlotte Maxeke Hospital, 100 health workers will be ready to jump into action in a full complement of personal protective clothing. We are not only ready here at home; we are actually physically present in the West African states of Guinea, Sierra Leone and Liberia. We have dispersed a team of highly trained specialists who have been there for the past two weeks. They left this country with a mobile laboratory, which is based in Sierra Leone, and is helping to diagnose the disease throughout the region.
That is why, if you had read today’s Cape Times, you would have seen the subheading, that says, MSF – meaning “Doctors Without Borders” - laud South Africa while slamming world’s response to epidemic in Africa. This is because of our having been there for the past two weeks, helping. Within SADC the state of readiness also very much revolves round the expertise we have here in South Africa. All the laboratory diagnosis of Ebola within the SADC region will be performed only at the National Institute of Communicable Diseases here in South Africa.
The National Institute of Communicable Disease has been declared a centre of excellence for Ebola management within the SADC region by a resolution of SADC Ministers of Health when they met relating to Ebola preparedness in Johannesburg recently. This resolution of the health Ministers was ratified by the SADC heads of states when they met at Victoria Falls last week. So, yes, hon member, we are very ready.
In addition, the BSL4 or what is called the Biosafety Laboratory Level 4, on the whole continent of Africa is found only here in South Africa, at Centrohem – on the whole continent. [Applause.] It can deal with some of the worst and most deadly organisms like Ebola, Smallpox – when it still existed- and Anthrax. We can deal with that and that is why we say that we are ready. On what I have said, I have never mentioned the readiness of the SA Military Health Services. If there is time or a need to do so, I can also tell you exactly what they have. So, we are very satisfied with our state of readiness. Thank you.
Dr W G JAMES
|
The MINISTER OF HEALTH
Dr W G JAMES: Speaker, to the Minister, thank you very much for your answer to the question. Minister, you are on record – a record you have now confirmed in this House – as saying that we are ready to deal with Ebola. But we know, after visiting 9 of the 11 hospitals - and I thought you should also know by now - that 3 of those 11 hospitals you designated are not ready to deal with Ebola because they lack decontamination rooms for health workers. Would the Minister therefore confirm that his statement before and today is both premature and wrong? And would he, therefore, assure the House that he would do whatever is necessary to help our hospitals meet the exacting technical standards to deal with a diabolical virus like Ebola. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Speaker, I stood here to confirm our state of readiness and I am still confirming that we are ready to deal with Ebola. If Mr James believes that more is needed, as he is saying, every week there is meeting of the Multisectoral National Outbreak Response Team, in which all the expertise and experts – I am not one of the experts, I don’t know whether Mr James is - sit in a meeting every week. Every province has a provincial outbreak response team that discusses this state of readiness to identify what is missing and what is not and ask experts whether this or that is necessary. I am standing up again to say, we are ready to deal with Ebola in this country. [Applause.]
If there is anything missing, give it to me and I will take it to the Multi-Outbreak Response Team, where experts will tell us whether it is needed or not.
Ms S J NKOMO
|
The MINISTER OF HEALTH
Ms S J NKOMO: Speaker, our borders are very porous. How is the department and the SA National Defence Force, including other monitoring agencies, equipped to deal with the potential health threats that could come through by these means, especially because the focus is mostly on obvious points of entry like airports.
The second issue is this: Without sensationalising the issue and scaring the public, has there been adequate education of the general public regarding the Ebola virus, how it is transmitted, as well as what symptoms to look for and where people need to report possible cases? Has any of these been used: Education through pamphlets, television or radio? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Speaker, this issue of porous borders is mentioned in almost every meeting, and even by the press. The team that sits every week - the Multi-Response Team - assesses the problems and according to them they looked into areas where there are likely to be problems. They say the problems are likely to occur at OR Tambo International Airport. That is why Charlotte Maxeke and Steve Biko have been given 100 sets of protective clothing and equipment. This is because we believe that if there is going to be any Ebola in South Africa, it would come through that airport. The other area is Lanseria Airport in Johannesburg.
We are now looking at the Cape Town International Airport and King Shaka in Durban. About the issue of porous borders that have been mentioned, we keep asking ourselves - if you understand Ebola - who is going to drive from Liberia, Guinea or Sierra Leone to South Africa across our borders. We keep being told that we must close Beitbridge Border Post. We are checking there, but we don’t think that is the route through which there will be problems, unless our experts have it very wrong. But I am repeating again, because we are assessing almost every day what is happening, we believe we are ready.
There is another thing that I want to tell the hon members here. In Sierra Leone, Guinea and Liberia people don’t just easily move in and out of areas already affected by Ebola. The presidents of those countries have cordoned off the already affected areas. If you went there, you would find soldiers surrounding those areas. And if people have to fly, the World Health Organization is there to screen them first. When we screen them here, you must understand that it is a second screening. They are actually screened even in their countries of origin. That is why I keep on repeating that we are very ready.
Regarding the issue of adequate education, we have tried our best. We have issued guidelines. Because you are asking where people will go if they suspect that they have Ebola,every single hospital in the country, not only those that are ready, has been issued with the guidelines. Every single doctor – even those in private practice – has been issued with the guidelines.
The patient from Liberia who works in the mine, who was reported all over by the press as being suspected of having Ebola, was referred to the National Institute for Communicable Diseases, NICD, by a private doctor. Because when he went there with a fever, after reading our guidelines, the private doctor phoned the NICD and continued to be guided. There is a toll-free line between all health care facilities and patients. It would be difficult for us to give each and very South African the guidelines. We believe that if they have problems they would either go to the clinic or a hospital or their private doctors and that is where they would find these guidelines waiting for them. [Time expired.][Applause.]
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM
|
The MINISTER OF HEALTH
Mr A M SHAIK EMAM: Hon Speaker, to the Minister of Health, my question is, we have been told 11 hospitals in South Africa are fully ready if we did have an outbreak of Ebola. But on the day of the briefing in Johannesburg I brought to your attention, hon Minister, problems at the border, and I was given the assurance that we have full border control and that there are no such problems. But to my surprise, an hour later, when I went to my hotel room and watched Sky News - which was being broadcast at the time - I saw people actually cutting the fence and coming across the border. Again the question is: How can we secure these borders?
The SPEAKER: Of course he is not the hon Minister who controls the borders. He deals with health issues. But you are free, hon Minister, to answer.
The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Yes! Yes! I wish to answer it, hon Speaker. We never said that now that there is Ebola the Department of Health is going to be responsible for securing the borders of South Africa. [Laughter.] It’s not our responsibility to do that. And at any rate, I have already told you, we are assessing areas through which Ebola is likely to come. If somebody cuts the fence at the border and comes in, do you think that person is an Ebola patient who walked all the way from Liberia to come and ...? Please be realistic, man! Please! I don’t think you are being fair. Let’s be very practical and realistic. How will Ebola come into South Africa? The Ebola patients are too sick to be troubled with cutting wires at the borders. That’s not going happen. Thank you. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
Mr M WATERS: Speaker, sorry, on a point of order!
The SPEAKER: Yes!
Mr M WATERS: Speaker, we only had three follow-up questions to the hon James’ question. And I believe there was another member who wanted to ask a supplementary question.
The SPEAKER: No, if there are any more, it would only be one.
Ms N R MOKOTO
|
The SPEAKER
Ms N R MOKOTO: Hon Speaker, I wish to thank the Minister of Health for the assurance that he has given us. But I would like to bring to his attention that in provinces like the North West we have a lot of border gates that need to be taken into consideration. We need to be aware of the inflow that is taking place through those border posts, hon Minister. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF HEALTH: You know, hon Speaker, the DA is praying every day that we get Ebola in this country, and it is not happening. [Laughter.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Point of order!
The MINISTER OF HEALTH: It is not happening and they are so disappointed.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Point of order!
The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Why are you saying that the country must get Ebola?
The SPEAKER: Hon Minister, could you give me a chance to allow the point of order.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, I would ask that you rule whether it is parliamentary for the Minister to say that members of this House are praying every day for sickness to be visited on the people of South Africa.
The SPEAKER: No, most definitely not. Hon Minister, you can’t cast aspersions on members of the House, saying that they are praying for Ebola.
The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Hon Speaker the first person who issued a false statement was a member of the DA.
The SPEAKER: No! [Interjections.]
The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Yes! [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Hon Minister! Hon Minister! Please just withdraw that. [Interjections.]
The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Okay, hon Speaker, I withdraw. But ...
Sepedi:
... la tšwa le tšwile.
English:
I withdraw, hon Speaker.
The SPEAKER: Okay! Then answer if you want to do so.
The MINISTER OF HEALTH: In answering this question, hon Speaker – I have already said this, but maybe ... let me just repeat it – about the issue of borders. The SADC Ministers have met and discussed this issue. On Friday I will be in Victoria Falls, where the Chairperson of the SADC Ministers - who is the Minister of Health in Zimbabwe - has called us again for a meeting. Our officials are meeting tomorrow in Victoria Falls, where we are meeting on Friday to discuss the whole issue of SADC. I said, and I can still confirm as I am standing here, that nobody - in South Africa or the whole SADC region - has been diagnosed with Ebola. Why I am so sure? If there is going to be any laboratory diagnosis in any of the 15 SADC member states it will be known by us first. This is because Ebola laboratory diagnosis can only be done in Centrohem in Johannesburg as there is no other laboratory. That is why I can stand before us and say this so confidently. Thank you. [Applause.]
QUESTION 96: The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
|
QUESTION 54/The MINISTER OF HEALTH
Question 96:
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Speaker, in terms of in-sourcing printing material, the department has indeed considered this, but for of the materials have very small titles and runs, like your African language books, which are not very attractive to the private sector. But there are grants, like your Rainbow series, your Siyavula and Shuttleworth, that go to about 54 million workbooks a year that are sent to 24 000 schools. In total it’s just billions of pages, so that I don’t think the sector should even consider doing it.
So, there is no thought of the big runs, like the workbooks. In terms of the cost involved, we have already cut lots of costs around this process, because even the Rainbow books, when we went to the market, were about R54 per book. We have our own writers who will be writing for the publishers in any case. We were able to reduce the price to R11 per book.
On the Shuttleworth books, because they are Open Source, we again made lots of savings. A book would normally cost us about R300 per book, but because this is Open Source and it is your best material, we pay something like R33. So, we have been able to make lots of savings through these methods and we are not thinking of in-sourcing because it’s not necessary.
In terms of Grade R and its curriculum, we are working with Social Development. We have done the curriculum for Grade R. In terms of being ready with the practitioners next year, for the year 2015-16, we will indeed have trained practitioners to deal with the Grade R and Early Childhood Development books, because we have been working on these things for a long time. So, it’s not as if it is a new programme. It is a programme that was started a long time ago and we will be able to have all the numbers that have been indicated in the state of the nation address. Thank you very much.
Ms N R MASHABELA
|
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
Ms N R MASHABELA: Speaker, I think the hon Minister will know something now. She failed to answer my question before. Hon minister, on the subject on ECD practitioners, given the high levels of blockage in the process of hiring teachers, particularly in the Eastern Cape, can the hon Minister explain how the hiring of ECD practitioners to meet the Development Delayed of 2015-16 will escape this red tape and bureaucracy? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chair, let me read the member’s question so that we may just understand who understands what. implications, both financially and otherwise, for in-sourcing?
I don’t know which question has not been answered, because I have answered that question adequately. In-sourcing of the printing and distribution of learners’ work books was the question, and that’s what I answered.
The Eastern Cape story comes as an afterthought because I asked the next question, whether the targeted 13 000 trained ECD practitioners will be achieved for the 2015-16 financial year. There were no stories about red tape. So, she is just bringing in her afterthought. I have answered the question, unless she wants to ask a follow-up to that question. She must make a follow-up on this question. She can’t bring a question and say I have not answered the question, as she is saying. She says I had to learn something, because I had not answered her question. So, I am telling her that I have answered the question. [Interjections.]
Mrs A T LOVEMORE
|
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
Mrs A T LOVEMORE: Deputy Speaker, Minister, you were well aware that your government’s own report last year found that Grade R was not adding real value to our learners. There is close to no correlation between having attended a year of Grade R and being ready to succeed in Grade 1. It is time that you implemented a school readiness test, both to safeguard learners against failure in their foundation phase and to test Grade R efficiency on an ongoing basis. Minister, when will you implement such a school readiness test?
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: When we have developed the tool to do it, we will do it. We have not yet developed that tool, therefore we are not doing it.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay! Hon members, sorry. Alright, it appears as if I was in too much of a hurry.
Mr A M MPONTSHANE
|
The DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, the system is producing learners who cannot read or write. The failure rate at universities is very high. And the research that was commissioned by the Department of Higher Education just yesterday published its findings. One of the things it says is that only 10% of South African schools produced university material students.
This can be attributed to what happens in the foundation phase, where teachers in that phase are not professionally qualified. Their salaries are not standardised. In fact, the highest salary of those teachers is about R2 000, and it is not standardised. The learning environments are very poor. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Mpontshane, your preamble is taking up all your time.
Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Deputy Speaker, the question is: How are you going to bring those teachers up to the standard and also the infrastructure at that level so that it would be conducive to quality education?
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Deputy Speaker, thank you very much for the question from the member. As the member has indicated, it is information that is provided by us, government, when we assess the system, so we know what we need to do. And because we have that information you are reading to us, and it came from us, that is information that is guiding us what to do.
So, we are training teachers with Social Development in higher institutions. We are working with provinces to standardise the salaries. And you may be aware that in our infrastructure plans there is also a roll-out plan for ECD centres. So, all the things we are saying, I thought, are in the report that tells us what the problems are and we would have told you what the solutions were, because the solutions are also in the same report.
Mr N M KHUBISA
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
|
Mr N M KHUBISA: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, may I know what qualification an educator must have in order to teach in a Grade R school? And then, secondly, how long does that qualification take to achieve? And, finally, there is a general outcry with regard to the meager salaries that Grade R educators are paid. What has the department done to ensure that Grade R educators are better paid?
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Deputy Speaker, it varies, because some of the teachers who are with Grade R would have been qualified teachers, some of whom to excess, and then we trained them to deal just with that phase. But the minimum requirement is your NQF Level 4 and, that’s what we are building on.
In terms of salaries this has indeed been a perennial problem. And that’s why, as the first step, we have gone into the provinces to equalise the plan, because in terms of the qualifications, for them to be fully qualified teachers. At that level they need not necessarily be fully qualified teachers.
So, we are training them up to a level where they can, in terms of your norms and standards for qualified teachers, be absorbed into the system. There is therefore a plan to absorb them as if they are qualified. But some of them are qualified to teach those learners, but they will not qualify for the salaries that I think they are looking for. However, this is something that we are working on with the unions, teachers and provinces, although it is the first step that has been taken to equalise salaries throughout the different provinces.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER
|
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Members, we have exhausted the time for supplementary questions. Regarding Question No 4, which we were supposed to move to, posed to the Minister of Water and Sanitation, I am advised that neither the Minister nor the Deputy is available. We received apologies that the Minister is abroad. I was then advised that the Minister of Human Settlements is available to take the question, but will not be able to respond to supplementary questions.
It’s our view that the House will be best served when members of the executive are able to take supplementary questions as well. So, I would like to urge members of the executive to please make appropriate prior arrangements for questions posed to them. Questions for Oral Reply are one vital tool used by members to hold the executive accountable. The question will therefore stand over.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon member.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, may I request you to establish or inform the House where the Deputy Minister is?
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Do you want me to ask the House where he is? [Interjections.]
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: No, the general Rule is that when the Minister is not available, the Deputy Minister stands in, and that if neither of them is available then another Minister from the executive generally answers the question.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, but I have just read to you a statement in which we are saying that both of them are not here. The Minister who was handling the response feels she is unable to take the supplementary questions. And this is why we feel that it should not go ahead.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Sorry, unless I misheard, Deputy Speaker, and I am not trying to be difficult here, you indicated to us that the Minister was abroad, but there was no indication of where the Deputy Minister was.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, he is not available. [Interjections.] Hon members, I think you are out of order. No, let me tell you why I am saying you are out of order. [Interjections.] I am giving you an explanation; you are throwing stuff at me. I am here. So, if you have an objection, you can put an objection. I have made the decision that this question will stand over. The Minister offered to respond, but because she is not the Minister responsible, she is unable to take the supplementary questions, because that’s not her area.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, I am really not meaning to disrespect you in any way, and I am not throwing anything at you. What I am asking is that when Ministers or Deputy Ministers are unable to come to this House, that they be held account, bearing in mind that this cluster last had a turn last year in September.
We now have to wait until the next cluster for them to return, unless a member requests that they are in the next Order Paper for ministerial questions. I think it’s only fair that they provide this House with the reason for their absence.
The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS: Deputy Speaker, unfortunately the Deputy Minister is not well, and has been requested to take a rest by the doctor. So, she is off sick. She is not here not because she doesn’t want to be here, but because she is not well.
QUESTION 58/The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
QUESTION 96/The MINISTER OF HUMAN SETTLEMENTS
|
Question 58:
IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHUKISWA KOMPHAKATHI: Phini likaSomlomo ...
English:
... we have declared this year the Year of People With Disabilities. The transfer of the disability function to the department provides us with an opportunity to address this issue, which was highlighted during the national dialogue held with the disability sector.
To date there are 590 children with disabilities in 137 residential care facilities who are not attending school. In addition, there are 6 654 children in 236 daycare centres who are not receiving a formal education, but are in daycare centres for stimulation. They cannot go to school as they are severely disabled.
The following plans are in place to integrate these learners into the education system. We have finalised the comprehensive programme on early childhood development, ECD, which includes the first 1 000 days of the child. This campaign, amongst others, will assist us to detect any disability at an early stage with a view to proper, early intervention and support. Furthermore, the universalisation of the ECD, as directed by the 2012 ANC conference, will complement this approach.
I have appointed a team consisting of representatives of the disability sector and the department to develop a programme of action with clear, implementable strategies to address issues raised by the sector during the dialogue immediately after the Budget Vote. I want to assure the hon member that this question will receive the utmost attention. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE
|
THE MINSITER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Hon Deputy Speaker, thank you very much, hon Minister, for your answer. I think the 100 and something you cited is a far cry from the report that I saw, that stated that almost 500 000 students or learners are not accessing education, but I think we both agree that one learner with a disability not accessing education is one too many. During a recent visit, for example, to Ward 1 in Nquthu, the IFP found four learners in close vicinity not accessing education, and while this is only in one ward, in many communities the right to education for children living with disabilities exists largely on paper.
Therefore, my question to you is, how will you deal with the challenges that these children face, such as high levels of discrimination due to the negative attitudes of their parents, teachers and communities and the many failures of the mainstream education system, that simply does not cater for learners with disabilities? Furthermore, can you give us the undertaking today that you will rectify the many failures of the now defunct Department of Women, Children and People with Disabilities? I thank you.
IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHUKISWA KOMPHAKATHI: Phini likaSomlomo, ulimi luka-George akulona ulimi lwami, kodwa bengingazi ukuthi lisho ukuthi uMnyango wezabesiFazane, iNtsha, iziNgane naBantu abaPhila nokuKhubazeka awusekho. Engikwaziyo ukuthi kwaba nomthetho wokufaka omunye umsebenzi ngaphansi kwezokuthuthukiswa komphakathi, omunye wafakwa kuMnyango Wezabesifazane.
Emva kweVoti Lesabelomali saxoxisana mayelana nokwesekwa kwezemfundo, ezemisebenzi, ezomthetho, nezomthetho eziphathelene nenhlangano yamazwe onke, kanye nokuthi iminyango, ama-ejensi kanye nabazimele benza kanjani ukuthi babhekele izinto eziphathelene nabantu abakhubazekile, kanye nazo izinhlangano ezilapha ngoba ezinye ziyakhuluma kodwa nazo azinabo abantu abakhubazekile.
Ngakho-ke, loku kufanele kube umsebenzi wethu sonke. Nathi futhi njengomnyango njengoba simatasatasa sigqugquzela imiphakathi, siyahlangana nabantwana abakhubazekile. Kodwa futhi ngiyafuna ukusho ukuthi ngonyaka odlule kwakukade kunohlelo lukaMongameli siseMpumalanga, kukhona isikole esasivakashela lapho kwakuhlanganiswe khona abantwana abakhubazekile nabangakhubazekile. Ngakho akulona iqiniso ukuthi uMnyango wezeMfundo eyisiSekelo uyahluleka; uyasebenza ukuthi nje sisonke sila, indaba yabantu abakhubazekile isasidida. Ngakho nathi sifake igalelo ukuze abantu abakhubazekile babhekeleleke ngendlela efanelekile. Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.]
Ms H O MAXON
THE MINSITER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
|
English:
Ms H O MAXON: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Minister of Social Development, how many schools do we have for learners with disabilities in South Africa? Why do these schools in white areas enjoy state-of-the-art facilities, when black schools of the same nature are still underresourced? Why is there is no transformation regarding black disability in the sector of schooling is because to be disabled and black remains a death sentence and a nightmare in South Africa.
Why is the disability schooling system not linked to any viable exit mechanism, like further education and training opportunities, skills development and employment? Why do we train students up to a certain ceiling and then send them home to be locked up and hidden away from the public domain? Thank you. [Applause.]
IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHUKISWA KOMPHAKATHI: Phini likaSomlomo, imibuzo eminingi la kulo mbuzo yimibuzo emisha. Ngincoma ukuthi ifakwe ngokulandelayo, ngiyiphendule. Kodwa akulona iqiniso ukuthi abantu abaya ezikoleni zabantu abakhubazekile bayafihlwa. SiwuMnyango wezokuThuthukiswa koMphakathi kukhona abantu abaneziqu esibaqashile, abakhubazekile. EMpumalanga Koloni, kunenani labantu abakhubazekile elinqunyelwe yonke iminyango futhi ngokuziqhenya eMnyangweni wokuThuthukiswa koMphakathi siyahlangabezana nalelo nani.
Nezinhlangano nazo kufanele zizibekele inani labantu abakhubazekile okufanele libaqashe; singakhulumi kuphela kepha imisebenzi ingabonakali ngoba ukukhuluma okungenamisebenzi kubuye kulahlekisane. Angifuni ukuthi lolu daba silwenze udaba lokudlala ngoba liwudaba olubucayi futhi siyathanda ukuthi imiphakathi iyibhekelele indaba yabantu abakhubazekile.
Enye into yoshintsho ezikoleni iyiqiniso, ikakhulukazi kubantwana abanesifo se-autism. Izikole zabo zihlala zigcwele ngaso sonke isikhathi kanti futhi ziyabiza. Umnyango usayibheka leyo ndaba ukuthi ungenza kanjani ukuthi abantwana abanesifo se-autism bakwazi ukwamukeleka ezikoleni zabantwana abakhubazekile. Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.]
Ms S P KOPANE
|
THE MINSITER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
English:
Ms S P KOPANE: Deputy Speaker, disability is a human right and a developmental issue. A Public Service and Administration report confirms that 80% of teachers at schools for the deaf are unable to use sign language and 80% in schools for the blind lack appropriate skills, including braille.
How many schools have you, hon Minister, visited to establish the specific needs of those disabled children and what are you going to do to make sure that the Minister of Basic Education caters for the basic infrastructure that is lacking in all schools? Thank you.
IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHUKISWA KOMPHAKATHI: Nakho-ke futhi ulimi luka-Goerge luyangidida ngoba mina bengingazi ukuthi ukukhubazeka yilungelo lo muntu. Ngakho-ke angiwuzwa kahle lo mbuzo. [Ubuwelewele.]
Yebo, kodwa okwesibili, izikole zabantu abakhubazekile siyazivakashela. [Ubuwelewele.] Izikole zabantu abakhubazekile zingaphansi koMnyango wezeMfundo eyiSisekelo. Kodwa, lilonke nje izikole zabantu abakhubazekile siyazivakashela futhi ukuba benifuna ukubuza ukuthi zingakhi izikole zabantu abakhubazekile ngabe niwubhale phansi futhi ngabe niyitholile impendulo. Asikho isizathu sokuthi ngihambe ngiyofihla impendulo yombuzo eniwufunayo. Kodwa njengoba uNgqonqgoshe wezeMfundo eyiSisekelo eshilo, lezi zinto ezikhulunywayo mayelana nodaba lokuthuthukiswa kwabantu nodaba lokukhubazeka yizinto eziphakanyisiwe emibikweni yethu futhi ezikhombisayo ukuthi sizimisele ukwenza isiqiniseko sokuthi izindaba zabantu abakhubazekile zithathelwa phezulu.
Ngaphezu kwalokho ngonyaka odlule saba nengqungquthela nabantu abanesifo se-autism nabazali babo, sakhulumisana nabantwana abasha abayizishawa, nakulo nyaka emva kweVoti Lesabelomali sakhulumisana nabantu abakhubazekile, kusho kona ukuthi sifuna ukuqhubekela phambili. Ake nisinikeni isikhathi, nizobona emva kwesikhathi umsebenzi esizobe sesiwenzile. Siyabonga. [Ihlombe.]
English:
Mr I M OLLIS: Hon Speaker.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, sir.
Mr I M OLLIS: The Minister just said that she did not understand the question. Could we repeat the question to her? Perhaps she will understand it next time. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: No, hon member! No, hon member! No, hon member! [Interjections.]
Mr I M OLLIS: She did not answer the question on sign language. She did not understand the question on sign language, Speaker.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, take your seat.
Mr I M OLLIS: Okay. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon members![Interjections.]
Mr N M KHUBISA
|
THE MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
Mr N M KHUBISA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I wanted to ask about the partnership that exists between the Department of Social Development and the Department of Basic Education, because we find that even if these learners are at school, they do not get the orthopedagogic assistance that they are supposed to get. I understand that you, as a department, also follow up. You take care of the history of the learner and follow up, even when that learner is in a school. Thank you.
IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHUKISWA KOMPHAKATHI: Izofika nini eyakho inkomfa. [Uhleko.] Yebo, Phini likaSomlomo, siyasebenzisana kakhulu noMnyango wezeMfundo eyiSisekelo ngoba phela yithina sihlanganyele noMnyango wezeMpilo esihlinzeka ngezinsizakusebenza zabakhubazekile, nosizo lwezokwelulekwa, siphinde-ke thina sihlinzeke ngosizo nemali yesibonelelo kanye nezinye nje izinto. Ngakho-ke, kunobudlelwane phakathi koMnyango wezeMfundo eyiSisekelo, uMnyango wezeMpilo kanye noMnyango wezokuThuthukiswa koMphakathi. Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.]
English:
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Minister, do you want to say anything with regard to the sign language question? [Interjections.] Alright, then we move on to the next question.
QUESTION 84/The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
|
QUESTION 58/ The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
Question 84:
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Deputy Speaker, when the South African Social Security Agency, Sassa, was formed in 2006, it was mandated to pay and administer social grants in South Africa. However, since its formation, the agency has only been able to administer the grants, while the function of payment was given to external service providers.
In April 2012, a new tender was awarded and we declared that it would be the last time this function would be given to external service providers.
We set ourselves a five-year period to prepare for the take-over of this function and a Ministerial Advisory Committee was formed to assist the department and the SA Social Security Agency, Sassa, to develop a detailed business plan and a road map that would ensure that government built its own capacity to pay social grants.
The department is monitoring the implementation of the North Gauteng High Court order and quarterly reports are received from all nine provinces.
With regard to foster care, I cannot stand here and proclaim that all is well with our fostered children, because, through outreach programmes and Project Mikondzo, we have seen that we have great challenges when it comes to foster care generally. The children in foster homes have told us horrendous stories, stories of abuse and neglect and of being treated differently by their foster parents, concerns about the misuse of the foster child grant by foster parents, and some have even died in the care of foster parents as a result of neglect. In some cases, we have even removed children whom we have found to be neglected or abused by their foster parents, as mandated by the Children’s Act.
A silent narration on the story of Anene Booysen is that she was a fostered child. We cannot continue to ignore the voices of our children and I have instructed the department and Sassa to address the immediate challenges faced by children in foster care. I have taken the decision to establish a committee that will investigate the state of foster care in the country. The committee is expected to start working in November and will report back to me in 18 months’ time.
With regard to the investigation that the hon member is referring to, I want to inform this House that the team, comprising of the Department of Social Development, the Black Sash and other nongovernment organisations, NGOs, from various provinces has concluded its work. I will make the report and recommendations of the team on this matter public next week. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms V P MOGOTSI
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
|
Ms V P MOGOTSI: Hon Minister, we as the ANC would like to say thank you and re a leboga [thank you] to the Minister and the Ministerial Committee on the progress that you have made, especially with regard to the Sassa tender. But, Minister, the question that I have concerns the foster care grant. After the North Gauteng High Court’s ruling, how many families have benefitted in terms of the foster care grant?
Hon Minister, as regards the airtime scam, we will wait for the report. Thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Deputy Speaker, many families - almost all of them - are still benefitting, but the programme is with the review committee, because every two years there must be a review, and that is why we were taken to court. The court said that we must not cut the foster child grant. However, we think that there are still challenges as far as the foster child grant is concerned. I must also say that, generally, as the Department of Social Development, we are unhappy about how South Africans treat children in general, not only children in foster care. [Applause.]
The issues of hijacking cars with children in them, and not even saving them indicate that we do not have respect for our children. Again, this matter needs the whole of South African society. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE
|
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, there are allegations that millions in public money meant for poor orphans were blown on suspect deals with a politically connected company. Have you or will you launch an investigation into this? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: May I ask the hon member to repeat the question and to be open, so that I may be able to respond?
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Deputy Speaker, I am asking the Minister about the allegations that Sassa has spent millions in public money meant for poor orphans on suspect deals with politically connected companies. It has been in the media and I know that you might not want to respond to media articles, but I am simply asking whether you are planning to launch an investigation into this matter. Thank you.
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Okay, are you talking about the issues that have been in the media about the security company? Are you talking about that? Yes, there is an investigation and the Public Protector is also busy with the matter. I have requested the concerned official to write a report to that effect. [Applause.]
Ms H O MAXON
|
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
Ms H O MAXON: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, who is the service provider regarding Sassa services? Speaking about good governance, why do social services officials continue to harass their clients? The case in point is an incident in Ekurhuleni, where Mrs Beatrice Malungane was harassed and beaten by Sassa officials and was subsequently hospitalised for two weeks. This incident took place in June 2012. For interest’s sake, what action has your department has taken against these officials?
Sassa recorded 1 848 cases of fraud worth about R4,5 million on its system. Furthermore, Cash Paymaster Services - after a long, costly court battle - now profit heavily from the R15 million in government grants every month. Is this just the way for comrades to loot, rather than help the poorest of the poor? [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Deputy Speaker ...
IsiZulu:
...ilungu elihloniphekile uMaxon lithatha umbuzo we-99 lizowufaka lapha [Uhleko.] Lo mbuzo eliwubuzayo siwulungiselele lapha ukhona. [Ubuwelewele.] Cha, angikwazi ukuwuphendula manje ngoba uwubuzile futhi. [Ubuwelewele.] Okwesibili, uma ngabe ilungu elihloniphekile lifuna umbiko omayelana nesixazululo esisithathile ngamacala enkohlakalo enziwa ngabasebenzi boMnyango wezokuThuthukiswa komPhakathi singawuletha lowo mbiko kodwa ubungekho lapha umbuzo obuza loko. Asinayo inkinga, singawuletha umbiko.
Ngishilo laphaya embuzweni wokuqala ukuthi izinto ezenziwa yi-CPS silwenzile uphenyo ngakho -ke sizowethula umbiko ngesonto elizayo. Sinombiko ophelele esiwenze silekelelana nezinhlangano ezizimele ngoba sisebenzisana nazo. Izinhlangano ezizimele zizobe zikhona uma sethula umbiko kanye nesinqumo esizosithatha ngemuva kombiko. Le sinqumo esizosithatha sizosithatha sihlangene nazo izinhlangano ezizimele singewona uMnyango wezokuThuthukiswa komPhakathi wodwa. Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Okay. Hon member, no, that is not good. You have been given the answer to that question. Hon Kopane, yes. [Interjections.] No, this is not...
Sesotho:
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Ha di a fella Mme.
Ms S P KOPANE
|
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
Ms S P KOPANE: Ke a leboha Motsamaisi wa Dipuisano.
English:
Minister, last year in November the Constitutional Court provided a damning judgment on the awarding of the Sassa tender to Cash Paymaster Services and declared the tender process constitutionally invalid. The court also determined that the Sassa chief executive officer, CEO, Virginia Peterson, had failed to ensure due diligence during the tender awarding process and that constitutional and legislative requirements were not met. Grants provide financial relief to South African people – about 50 million of them. Now, my question to you, Minister, is: When will you hold the CEO accountable for this debacle and fire her? [Interjections.]
IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHUKISWA KOMPHAKATHI: Indaba eyayibangwa kakhulu lapho ukuthi ithenda yayinenkohlakalo. Okokuqala, inkantolo yaphuma nesinqumo sokuthi yayingekho inkohlakalo. Okwesibili, inkantolo yathi asiqale phansi uhlelo lokuhambisa ithenda. Njengamanje silandela leyo mibandela yasenkantolo ngokuphelele. Akukho okunye esizokwenza eceleni ngoba sibika enkatolo. Ngiyabonga. [Ihlombe.]
QUESTION 70/The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION
|
QUESTION 84/The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT
Question 70:
The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: No, governance and the level of transformation in the bigger sports federations have not been adequate up to now. The pilot audit on the transformation of the big five federations in 2013 revealed that the level and rate of transformation have been poorer than expected. Governance is an important part of the Transformation Charter and Scorecard.
Progress in this dimension of transformation is monitored annually, and targets have been set for selected components of governance. In 2014, 16 federations will report on the status of transformation, from national to provincial and school level. Thank you.
Rre S G MMUSI
The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION
|
Setswana:
Rre S G MMUSI: Tona, a se o se buang se kaya gore diphetogo le ditshepiso tseo di tlile go akaretsa batho botlhe le go agiwa ga mabala a metshameko jaaka rugby le cricket mo metsemagaeng le metsesetoropong e e akaretsang magae ao pele a neng a ikgatolositswe ke puso ya tlhaolele, a a akaretsang Kudunkgwane kwa North West, Bona-Bona, Mpuluzi kwa Mpumalanga, le Qoqodala kwa Lady Frere? Ke a leboga, Motlatsammusakgotla.
TONA YA METSHAMEKO LE BOITAPOLOSO: Ke a leboga Rra. Ga ke itse ka Setswana nkare honourable ke eng. Ke a leboga motlotlegi. Ke leboga go menagane. Gape fa re ya kwa ga Rre Mangope, borra, ke ne ke re ke tlhalose fela seo. Ke ne ke tlhalosa fela gore re tla kgona gore tiro e re e dirang go tlisa ditlhabololo mo go tsa metshameko, re e ise kwa metsemagaeng. Re tla tlisa tlhabololo ka go aga mabala a metshameko gotlhe mo Aforikaborwa. Seo re ikanne gore re tlile go se dira ka bojotlhenyana bo re na leng bona; bo re bo neilweng, jaaka re tlhalositse nako e re neng re neelana ka tekanyetsokabo e re e neilweng ke Tona ya Matlotlo, gore re tlile go berekela thatathata kwa metsemagaeng gore re kgone go fitlhelela baagi koo.
Re ka se bue ka tlhabololo ya tsa metshameko le diphetogo re sa bue ka tlhabololo e e simololang kwa tlase; kwa mafelong a batho ba ba dikobo di magetleng, bao ba batlang go tshameka rugby kgotsa motshameko monwge le mongwe. Ga ba kgone gore ba nne le mafelo a go tshamekela. Jaanong, ke tiro ya rona, jaaka re tlhalositse, gore re berekela gore re fitlhelele kwa bathong ba rona gore le bona ba kgone go tokafatsa maphelo a bona ka go tshameka metshameko e ba e ratang tota. Ke a leboga. [Legofi.]
Mr M S SESHOKA
The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION
|
Mr M S SESHOKA: Minister, your department has set targets for initiatives that enhance participation in sport and drive transformation in sport, but the programme that drives this, being the mass participation programme, which accounts for over 55% of the current budget, is failing to achieve this.
According to information from the Auditor-General, in line with the financial statement of the department, for two years running it has missed its targets. It met only 20% of the targeted number of participants in sports promotion projects. It met less than 50% of targeted, sustainable and active recreational events. In light of all of these, what action will the Minister take to ensure that the monies allocated to the mass participation programme to widen access to sports participation are justified; when will he do so; and could he say whether action will be taken against officials for under-performance of this programme, which is key to driving transformation in sports?
The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Deputy Speaker, we are going to ensure that the funds allocated for mass participation are actually exhausted and that we utilise those funds for that particular purpose. In this particular instance, we are going to kick start that programme now for implementation; working with the provinces through the conditional grant, that the hon member referred to. I think it is absolutely possible to reach the targets that we have set for ourselves. Thank you.
Mr K P SITHOLE
|
The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION
Mr K P SITHOLE: Deputy Speaker, I don’t think the Minister wants to be remembered as the Minister of bunch of losers, because ...
IsiZulu:
Okwenza ukuthi ngisho kanjena ukuthi bonke oNgqongqoshe obalandelayo bakhuluma ngokuthi kuzoba noshintsho kwezemidlalo, kuze kube manje uNgqongqoshe okhona ukuluma ngoguquko esibona lungenamiphumela. Umbuzo esinawo uthi: “Uma uguquko lungenzeki ezingeni likazwelonke, nasezindaweni ezisemadolobheni, kangakanani-ke kubantu abasemakhaya? Luyofika nini kubo?
Ngiyathokoza.
The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Deputy Speaker, I just want to explain to the hon member, if you follow what we are doing in terms of the Department of Sport and Recreation and the Ministry, not only through half-baked reports in the newspapers, you will realise that, firstly, we tabled a full report on the baseline report that we have conducted on transformation, starting with the five top priority codes in South Africa. That is being rolled out to the 16 plus codes in terms of the baseline research report.
Secondly, we are now meeting with all the first five top priority codes to get a response from them in terms of transformation and how they are going to meet the targets. Up to now I have already met three of the top three, including rugby, cricket and football.
I’m also going to meet, among others, with athletics and netball. That is what is important. So, hon member, I can assure you that we are doing everything possible through an integrated programme, which is driven by the Eminent Persons Group, EPG, to ensure equity, access and demographical spread within sport in South Africa across all sporting codes. We have got a very clear and scientific programme of action that we are implementing.
We are no longer talking about mainly emphasising quotas. We are talking of an integrated process. Our approach to transformation is bottom-up. We are not only looking at the national teams. We are looking at development versus high performance and how the two are going to assist us to realise full transformation in South Africa. Thank you very much. [Appause.]
Mr P G MOTEKA
The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION
|
Mr P G MOTEKA: Deputy Speaker, Minister, let us talk about transformation quota system that you are silent about these days. Did the Minister meet AfriForum after its threat to take him to court, should he insist on making quota system nonnegotiable in all national sports teams? For interest’s sake, share with this House: What was the deal with minority lobby group; where did the money come from? Can it be from our taxes? Who actually is in charge of sports in this country? Is it the minister or AfriForum? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: I did not hear you in terms of the second part of your question. Who is in charge? I am in charge. That is why you are asking me questions. We are in charge. [Applause.] The Minister and this government will with engage all groups irrespective, even those who are conservative in their outlook and don’t understand where we come from. Engaging with AfriForum includes every citizen in this country who does not share our perspective. So, I have spoken to AfriForum. There is no deal or agreement that we have with them. They have raised their voice and disagreement about how they understand the quotas. We clarified that this is about targets.
Transformation is not an open-ended and unending process. At some point, we need to talk about the targets that we need to achieve in the different sporting codes. They spoke about going to the courts, which is within their right. The Constitution says that they can, but I told them, and I want to repeat it for you and for everybody to understand: This government will not compromise on transformation. It is absolutely non-negotiable. [Applause.]
We are going to pursue transformation, not half-heartedly or in a half-baked, but integrated manner. In the next 20 years, in terms of the sports plan programme we have adopted, we will not only be talking about quotas, but we will be evaluating the impact of the programmes that we have implemented. We have arrived. Those who think that we are on the retreat, and that we are not going to implement transformation, it is there; everybody has agreed.
In the next couple of weeks when we are done, we are going to sign an agreement with all our sporting codes. What is your commitment and how far will you go? There will never be a complaint about who is on the bench and not being able to play. The question will be: You, as a federation, what do you commit yourself to? Watch this space! We are on track in terms of achieving the targets and engaging everybody in South Africa. Thank you. [Applause.]
QUESTION 50/The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
|
QUESTION 70/The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION
Question 50:
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Speaker, the department has completed 75 of the schools since the inception of our Accelerated Schools Infrastructure Delivery Initiative, Asidi, of the 150 schools that are referred to in the question. You will recall that the Asidi programme roll-out and implementation has to follow a cycle, which includes planning, design, procurement and, finally, construction.
There are already 110 schools that have been allocated to implementing agents and the completion of the 150 schools is planned for the 2015-16 financial year. Thank you.
Ms D VAN DER WALT: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, the one-school-a-week spin doctoring was to hide the fact that government had failed dismally to meet its commitment to eradicating mud and inappropriate schools as directed by a court order.
Government committed itself to eradicating 496 mud schools by the end of the 2013-14 financial year. However, as of March 2014, only 49 of the 496 schools had been completed. Despite having only provided 49 schools in the first three years of this programme, you promised to deliver 150 in one single year. Minister, are you sure you are not making promises to the children of our country that you cannot keep?
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chair, the opening of one school a week is continuing. Yesterday, the Deputy Minister opened one here in the Western Cape; next week the President will be doing it; the third week I will do it myself. The struggle continues, so it is happening all the time. [Applause.]
I have said that 75 schools were finished. The member went to 45. I said 75. We are saying that of the 150 schools, 110 have already started with implementation. If you read our reports, you would see that there was movement, which you had asked for. The programme has started. It is going on in this way to build capacity. We set off by committing to 45, 150 and 300. That is how we planned it.
Indeed, we have supplied the momentum, and that is why we have moved from 45 and are at 75 now. As I said, 110 are already with implementing agents. Therefore, the programme is on track.
In the words of Minister Mbalula’s, watch this space! It is relevant to all the provinces. It is bringing much joy to teachers and it is great! [Applause.]
Mr D H KHOZA
|
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
Mr D H KHOZA: Deputy Speaker, to the Minister, as the ANC, we appreciate the commitment of your department ... [Interjections.] [Applause.] ... for making the Asidi project work in providing fully comprehensive schools. The question is, Minister, how are the Department of Basic Education and the provincial education department supplementing the Asidi project in providing infrastructure in schools? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chair, Asidi is specific. That is why it should not be expected to deal with all infrastructure backlogs. Asidi specialises in mud schools, tin schools and wooden schools all over the provinces. There are about 400 in the Eastern Cape, 25 here in the Western Cape, and 30 will be completed in the Free State. The provinces deal with other structures like new schools, and not part of the Asidi programmes. That is only for when we remove old, unsuitable schools. The new schools are provincial. Renovations and repairs belong to provincial budgets. Our budget is specific; it is for unsuitable structures, water, sanitation, and electricity, and nothing else. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr M S MBATHA
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
|
Mr M S MBATHA: Hon Minister, for the record, the question is, how many mud schools have you eradicated in the last parliamentary term since you have been the Minister. The last one is, what is your target for the total eradication of mud schools overall and the elimination of infrastructure backlogs, in particular in rural and black townships, since the difference between the schooling systems is still wide according to colour, and black children are still suffering as we speak.
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chair, I have just explained. Asidi had not yet started during the whole of the last term. Asidi had started towards the end of last term, because we had to secure the budget. From then we have completed 75. This does not cover the entire term, because it did not start at the beginning of the last term, not even the last years of the previous term. We are saying that, now, this year, 2014-15, we have 110 schools that are already with service providers and we are allocating others, which would be the next batch. The next batch will be 300, and this is only in the Eastern Cape.
In terms of the other information, the question of the ANC member that I answered, provinces undertake the other infrastructure programmes, those of new schools, repairs, etc. We also have a special grant, which is ring-fenced money that we give to provinces and work with them. Therefore, if you want the entire infrastructure programme, all of whose figures I do not keep in my mind, put it in writing, and I will give you the answer. Is that not so? So, ask me; I will give you the answer, but do not ask questions on matters that have not been raised before and expect me to keep all the figures in my head. However, if you ask me, I will give you the answer. [Applause.]
Mr A M MPONTSHANE
The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
|
Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, yes, we are watching this space. When we as a committee visited the Eastern Cape, we discovered that there were many factors which were bedevilling the issue, and putting some spokes in the wheel of the delivery of schools in that province which included, inter alia, the tensions and rivalries between ... [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, remember to ask your question. [Laughter.]
IsiZulu:
Mnu A M MPONTSHANE: Hawu, wasungiphuthuma Somlomo, ngiyawendlalela. [Uhleko.]
English:
We discovered, hon Minister, that there were tensions between different grades of construction companies and a lack of skilled people, leading to shoddy work. My question, hon Minister, is: How have you dealt with each of these factors, which were hindering the delivery of schools in the Eastern Cape?
IsiZulu:
UNGQONGQOSHE WEMFUNDO EYISISEKELO: Muhle uMpontshane ngoba uzazi zonke izindaba nezinkinga zaseMnyangweni Wemfundo. Zinjalo njengoba uzicacisa. Izinkinga ezikhona nje ukuthi kunobunzima obukhulu kanye nokuxabaxabana. Ngingongeza kulezi nkinga ezikhona osuzibalile; nazo futhi sixazulula ngayinye ngayinye, kuya ngokuthi zivela kanjani.
English:
One other problem that we have not raised, which I think is slowing down our progress, is the fact that some schools, we feel, have to be consolidated and brought together. Therefore there is a slightly delay. We are also lagging behind because some of the schools have enrolments of only 8 or 20 children, and that does not justify the provision of new, fully comprehensive infrastructure. We are also working in parallel with the province to make sure that we can integrate schools.
IsiZulu:
Yizo-ke izinkinga ezikhona. Kungcono uma ngikhuluma ngesiZulu ngoba abezwa futhi. [Ubuwelewele.] Ngithi-ke Mpontshane abangasibangeli umsindo sixoxe indaba yethu kahle. Injengoba uyisho nje, ziningi izinkinga okufanele sizixazulule. Angithi yizingane zethu ezithintekayo uma kukubi yingakho sikhathazeka. Sixazulula kancane kancane izinkinga kuya ngokuthi zivela nini. Uma kuxatshanwa siyalamula; uma besebenza kabi sesula isivumelwano sokusebenza, kanjalo kanjalo nje kuye ngokuthi zivele kanjani izinkinga zethu.
IPHINI LIKASOMLOMO: Siyabonga Ngqongqoshe. Lungu elihloniphekile kahle baba; hhayi, uzomphendula ngolunye usuku. Okusele kuzongena ku-Hansard.
Mnu A M MPONTSHANE: Phini likaSomlomo sengathi kunokuphambuka lapha: Cha bo umbuzo wami kuNgqongqoshe bekungeve kungukumtshela ngezinkinga, bengibuza ukuthi: Lezi zinkinga ezikhona-ke uzozixazulula kanjani?
IPHINI LIKASOMLOMO: Ungabe usaphinda-ke, usechazile uNgqongqoshe. [Uhleko.] esiphelile isikhathi semibuzo izimpendulo ezisele zizobhalwa ku-Hansard.
NOTICES OF MOTION
QUESTION 50/The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION
|
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr S C MOTAU: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the impact of President Zuma’s oversized Cabinet on the oversight work of Parliament, and its consequences for the economy of South Africa.
[Applause.]
Mrs M R M MOTHAPO
Mr S C MOTAU
|
Mrs M R M MOTHAPO: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates encouraging community participation in parole boards and corrections, rehabilitation and reintegration initiatives.
Mr N M KHUBISA
|
Mrs M R M MOTHAPO
Mr N M KHUBISA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the NFP:
That the House debates the 2012-13 Auditor-General’s report regarding the performance of district and local municipalities.
Mr M HLENGWA
Mr N M KHUBISA
|
Mr M HLENGWA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House debates the roles of traditional leaders in municipal councils.
Ms T E BAKER
|
Mr M HLENGWA
Ms T E BAKER: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the security risks at government hospitals and discuss ways of ensuring the safety of all people using government health facilities.
Mr S P MABILO
Ms T E BAKER
|
Mr S P MABILO: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates the role that municipalities can play in the implementation of the National Climate Change Strategy.
Mr J A MNGXITAMA
|
Mr S P MABILO
Mr J A MNGXITAMA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:
That the House debates the minimum wages for domestic workers, because they work under very difficult conditions and they are underpaid.
[Applause.]
Mr S J F MARAIS
Mr J A MNGXITAMA
|
Mr S J F MARAIS: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That this House debates the endemic loss of jobs in agriculture and the deterioration of the economic development conditions in the agricultural value chain.
Mr K P SITHOLE
Mr S J F MARAIS
|
Mr K P SITHOLE: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House debates transformation of the built environment.
Ms S P BOSHIELO
Mr K P SITHOLE
|
Ms S P BOSHIELO: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House debates combating the increase in trafficking of persons, especially women and children.
Ms K LITCHFIELD–TSHABALALA
Ms S P BOSHIELO
|
Ms K LITCHFIELD–TSHABALALA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:
That the House debates the role of restorative justice in making the perpetrators come to terms with their crimes and invoke remorse for their actions.
Mr N L S KWANKWA
Ms K LITCHFIELD–TSHABALALA
|
Mr N L S KWANKWA: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:
That the House debates the strategies to revive rural economies in order to stem the tide of urbanisation.
Mr G MACKAY
Mr N L S KWANKWA
|
Mr G MACKAY: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the grossly irregular awarding of a R4 billion tender on nuclear maintenance to French nuclear firm Areva despite the findings and strong recommendations of Eskom’s own technical committee to do the contrary.
Ms C MATSIMBI
|
Mr G MACKAY
Ms C MATSIMBI: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That this House debates strengthening the economic empowerment of rural women through the mobilisation of resources and capacity-building.
Nksk R N CAPA
Ms C MATSIMBI
|
IsiXhosa:
Nksk R N CAPA: Sekela Somlomo ohloniphekileyo, egameni lo mbutho wesizwe i-ANC, ndiphakamisa ukuba xa idibene kwiveki elandelayo:
Le Ndlu ixoxe nzulu ngomcimbi wokuphathwa gadalala nokuxhatshazwa kwabantwana emzimbeni, engqondweni nangokwesondo.
Ndiyabulela. [Kwaqhwatywa.]
Mr E J MARAIS
|
Nksk R N CAPA
Mr E J MARAIS: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:
That the House debates the reasons why the lights are continuously left on in the parliamentary precincts whilst our nation is facing an energy crisis.
Mr M Q NDLOZI
|
Mr E J MARAIS
Mr M Q NDLOZI: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the EFF:
That the House debates the eviction of farm workers from their residences.
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE
|
Mr M Q NDLOZI
Ms L L VAN DER MERWE: Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House debates the SA Medical Research Council Report tabled in Parliament on the increasing number of child murders in South Africa.
MOTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE/ The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
|
NOTICES OF MOTION/Ms L L VAN DER MERWE
GRACA MACHEL RECEIVES MAHATMA GANDHI AWARD FOR PEACE AND RECONCILIATION
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House-
- notes that on Thursday, 28 August 2014, late former President Mandela’s widow and human rights activist, Graca Machel received the Mahatma Gandhi Award for Peace and Reconciliation at the Kendra Hall in Greyville, Durban;
- further notes that the former first lady of South Africa and Mozambique received the award from the Gandhi Development Trust and it was handed over to her by Ela Gandhi, Mahatma Gandhi’s granddaughter;
- remembers that on the night of the award she delivered a speech on the suffering of and disrespect shown African women, especially in war zones like the Democratic Republic of the Congo;
- recalls that on Thursday night Ms Machel, who is also passionate about helping millions of destitute children in Africa, was speaking as the chairperwoman of the African Centre for the Constructive Resolution of Disputes, Accord; and
- congratulates Ms Graca Machel on her well-deserved award.
[Applause.]
Agreed to.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION
|
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
CONGRATULATIONS TO HENNIE OTTO ON HIS VICTORY IN THE ITALIAN OPEN GOLF TOURNAMENT IN TURIN
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Hon Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House-
- notes that on Sunday the South African golfer Hennie Otto claimed victory in the Italian Open held in Turin;
- further notes that this is Otto’s second victory after laying claim to the same title in 2008;
- acknowledges that Otto shot a four-under-par 68 to finish with a 20-under total of 268;
- congratulates Hennie Otto for flying our nation’s flag high; and
- wishes him the best of luck in his career and future endeavours.
Agreed to.
Mr N M KHUBISA
|
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION
REED DANCE CEREMONY AT ENYOKENI PALACE
(Draft Resolution)
Mr N M KHUBISA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House-
- notes that from 4 to 7 September 2014 maidens from all over South Africa will be celebrating their Zulu culture and will converge at eNyokeni Palace in Nongoma, in Zululand;
- further notes that during this ceremony, virgin maidens participate in singing and dancing, and the older women teach young girls how to take care of their bodies and promote chastity until marriage and to respect themselves;
- congratulates the Zulu Monarch, His Majesty King Goodwill Zwelithini, for reviving the Reed Dance Ceremony, which has contributed immensely to the fight against HIV/Aids and teenage pregnancy, especially in KwaZulu-Natal; and
- acknowledges that the Reed Dance Ceremony also promotes tourism in the province, which is its biggest economic driver in that province.
Agreed to.
Mr J A MNGXITAMA
|
Mr N M KHUBISA
SHAKES MASHABA APPOINTED BAFANA BAFANA COACH
(Draft Resolution)
Mr J A MNGXITAMA: Hon Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House provides Shakes Mashaba with all possible the support - and not to allow him to be attacked even before he has started his work, so, hands off Mashaba Shakes Mashaba, and let’s give him the support he needs so that he rebuilds the national team.
Agreed to.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
|
Mr J A MNGXITAMA
CONGRATULATIONS TO JAMES THOMPSON AND JOHN SMITH ON THEIR ROWING VICTORY IN THE NETHERLANDS
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House-
- notes that on Saturday, 30 August 2014, Olympic gold medallists James Thompson and John Smith realised a life-long dream after claiming first place in the lightweight men’s double sculls at the World Rowing Championships in the Netherlands;
- further notes that the time they set was the best result in history at the global event by a South African crew;
- recognises that Thompson and Smith further etched their names in the annals of South African sports history as the country’s first world champions only two years after they famously won gold at the London Olympic Games as members of the lightweight fours with Sizwe Ndlovu and Matt Brittain;
- recalls that the South African duo was up against a quality field, which included defending world champions, Norway, and pre-race favourite, France; and
- congratulates Thompson and Smith for raising the South African flag high and demonstrating the same tenacity they showed at the Olympic Games two years earlier.
Agreed to.
Mr M Q NDLOZI
|
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
30TH COMMEMORATION OF VAAL UPRISING
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House-
- marks and recognises the 30th commemoration of the Vaal Uprising of 3 September 1984;
- notes that the people of Evaton in Sebokeng protested against the increments in rent and other tariffs imposed by the Lekoa and Evaton Town Councils;
- acknowledges that the resistance brought together social movements, student movements and trade unions movements in a united front against the oppressive apartheid state;
- further notes that this led to the biggest and longest black uprising that exploded in the history of the anti-apartheid struggle; and
- continues to recognise the many people who fell during that time and also remain inspired to ensure that our people access economic freedom and quality services in their lifetime.
Agreed to.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION
|
Mr M Q NDLOZI
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Deputy Speaker, there is no objection, but, again, that motion was not circulated to the DA.
The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Alright. Hon members, please follow the practice of circulating the motions and so on.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY
The DEPUTY SPEAKER
|
AMENDMENT OF TIME ALLOCATED FOR PARTY RESPONSES
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Deputy Speaker, I wish to amend the motion as it appears on the Order Paper, and move:
That the House resolves that, notwithstanding Rule 106(5), the time allocated for party responses to executive statements on Thursday, 4 September 2014, be as follows: ANC: 20 minutes; DA: 8 minutes; EFF: 5 minutes; and all other small parties 3 minutes each.
Agreed to.
The House adjourned at 17:24.
Audio
No related
Documents
No related documents